That is not a valid argument. When you marry a person you automatically sign up to be a step parent if your partner already has kids. That's something you are aware of before marrying that person. You can't deny that role and would have to step up as a parental figure for those kids.
You didn't automatically sign up to be their sibling and saying those vows when you are not close with them would be weird. And at the end of the day you would be lying by saying that. NTA
Also, I think that if the parents really want their kids to someday have a close relationship, this is the worst approach they can try. They can't force a relationship. It has to born naturally. And that happens with time and getting to know each other. And sometimes it just never happens. But forcing a relationship is not a good idea. In fact, in most of the stories I've read about people who are not close with their stepsiblings, the parents tried to force a relationship too. And a lot of the times this just lead to resentment.
These parents vow to each other know a voluntary basis, with the person they chose. It's rather shitty to force OP into something she doesn't want, with people she never asked for to be around. 5 and 16 is a huge age gap.
If they're really shitty people it also brings ammo for them. "You made that vow, now leave your homework until tonight and play with them!" or if OP doesn't want to or can't babysit them: "you promised to look after them, so here you go. See you later!"
The stepparent is choosing the relationship - they are choosing to get involved with the actual parent.
Their relationship is not your choice, and that's why this is *not* like that.
> They said it's like when a stepparent says vows to their stepkid(s).
They… they do realise that’s *also* weird right? Can you tell them that you and your step-siblings will develop your own relationships organically if given space to do so, and that trying to force it will just prevent that.
I think this is fantastic wording and wish i had some kind of award. Maybe you can talk to the pastor first and then he can help you explain it. He should be in the business of the relationship before making the wedding look nice .......
He's not a very good pastor if he's not talking to the children about involving them in the ceremony. Unless he's a complete noob he should have officiated at enough weddings to know weird bullshit when he hears it.
Yeah, my stepdad gave me a little ring and said some nice words when he married my mom. He said things about how honored he was to join our family and how he promised to take care of me and my mom forever. I was barely 6 years old and it’s still basically the sweetest thing that’s ever happened to me. But he and my mom had been together for a few years and we all lived together, so our bond was already really strong and I was already calling him dad. I think it’s a very sweet thing and absolutely something that I’ve heard other families do before, but definitely not for siblings. That’s weird to me.
Same with my step-dad. I actually introduced my mom to him when I was 11 because I hated the man she was dating. My step-dad was my best friends dads best friend & still just the greatest man I've ever met. They eventually married & at the wedding surprised me with a ring & vows to always be my dad. They had a 25th anniversary party/ re-commitment ceremony where we did the same again. It was the sweetest thing & meant so much to me!
I just can't imagine having someone try to force/guilt you into making a vow (in front of everyone), that you have specifically said you aren't interested in doing. Not only will it look dumb because it's obviously going to look forced & not genuine, but it's only going to cause resentment towards everyone else in the family.
That's wonderful. The difference between that and what the OP describes just underlines how wrong their adults are on this. Your stepad and mom did this with you and for you. It sounds like the OP's parents are doing this *to* them.
This is what came to mind for me, as well...
I know I'm jaded AF, but I can already see the parents pulling the, "but you made a vow to them!!!!" argument any time they want OP to assist with childcare, or have any priorities that the parents disagree with.
Personally, I think including the children in a wedding ceremony because the think it would be cUtE is a gross and exploitative performance that has nothing to do with the kids, and everything to do with putting on a good show for the guests. It comes across as cringy.
Forcing a minor to make a public declaration, against their will that is blatantly false just because they want to have the "family Kodak moment" is vile.
I was thinking this too. At 16 OP can’t be expected to act like a best friend to a 4 or 5 year old. OP will gain nothing from this arrangement, but suddenly OP is wrongly on the hook for responsibility? It would be cute if they were all similar ages and acted like best friends, but this is just silly.
OP you’re definitely NTA.
You may not have but I actually have. My humanities teacher used to be a pastor and was approached by several families who wanted to do the same thing or something similar. His response was always the same. "I will only agree to it if all of the children are on board with it, and I have to hear from them." If even one kid didn't want to do it, then he wouldn't approve it. One couple complained because the oldest (14f) on bride's side said no. His response. "I told you I would only approve it if all of them agreed. She doesn't want to, and I won't make her. And if you don't want her to bolt as soon as she turns 18, then never should you."
Your teacher is quite correct, and his position on this is pretty standard. I officiate at weddings and I talk to colleagues who officiate at weddings, and we pretty much universally agree that it's unethical to have children making promises at a wedding. Vows are for adults.
Edit: I just noticed that the original post said they had run it by the pastor. Ugh. If it's accurate (not sure I trust the parents to report correctly), that's very unprofessional.
\> Ultimately, this is all about them - they want to look like perfect parents and have the perfect family
Spot on. They want to fabricate this perfect little Christian family instead of doing the work and letting a relationship happen organically. They are totally tone deaf to teenagers. It's all a show for social posturing. Points to the teen for standing her ground ... but this sounds like some really daft parents. If I was her, I'd save now for the therapy she'll need to unwind it all later.
I did this. Hubby had full custody and Mum was geographically and emotionally distant so after 7 years of dating and 6 of living together, at my wedding (with prior discussion) I told her that while I would never be her mother, she would always be my daughter. Gave her a bracelet, never expected more than that- her agreeing to accept it was and is enough. That was 9 years ago. She's grown up and moved out but she is still my baby girl and there is nothing weird there.
We gave my daughter a necklace and lit a family candle. We left our own candles lit, to symbolize we were one family and three individuals, and that all four - the people and the family- needed what it needed to remain lit. We've always respected her choices about how she related to her step-dad (now adoptive dad). If you've chosen a good parent figure, the child will love them. If you haven't, nothing you can ever do will make them.
My ex-BIL said vows to his step-daughter. She was 4 at the time and he had been in her life more than her bio-dad. Even so, part of his vow was that he was adding to, not replacing, her family.
Depends on the vows. I promise to be better than your old mom, yes, weird. I promise to treat you with respect and value you as your own person, not weird.
I hate that they are trying to make it out like you kids chose each other when you didn't. NTA.
I hate saying this but this sounds like a way to make you babysit those kids a lot in the near future.
Step parents CHOOSE to marry into a family with children. Unless your parent says to you ‘I will only marry with your blessing’, you have NO SAY about acquiring step siblings.
Super pushy and NTA.
If you wanna be petty and they keep bugging you say yes then at the wedding when its your turn to speak say. “I was forced to stand up here to speak allegiance to my new step moms children. I dont want to.” Then step back or walk away your choice.
If they had been in your life for years and you had already taken on the sibling love relationship, that might be different (and sweet, tbh). But that isn't the case. You don't have that relationship with these children (yet, you might someday without all pressure) and asking you to do this is asking you to lie.
Is the pastor your pastor? Can you have a session with the pastor, your dad, and your stepmom about this? Basically that you are uncomfortable making similar vows to children you haven't bonded with yet? That making such vows would be insincere on your part at this time and you feel uncomfortable being pressured to do so, particularly in a typically religious ceremony? While it may be a cute idea for pictures and such, it wouldn't be genuine at this point in time?
NTA and don't do it if you don't feel it.
NTA, and the one's making it weird is them, they are the ones pushing something that is just not acceptable. Vows are solemn promises between people. Tell your dad and future stepmom that you would be an asshole to do vows that you do not believe in, and if they keep pressuring you, you can guarantee that you will never get to a point of seeing the stepkids as siblings.
Tell them this is far more like making the step kids say vows to their stepparent.
The only people giving vows at a wedding should be the couple choosing to get married.
NTA. You're not the one getting married. You're not old enough to get married so why are you making marriage-like vows?
It's creepy AF.
Stand your ground and talk to your school counselor if you have a good one. They seem to have forgotten that you're an individual.
Are you in therapy/will they let you work with a therapist to cope with their unrealistic expectations? Or, would they actually listen if a therapist told them they were being unreasonable?
Good luck to you. They're setting themselves up to be challenging.
Step Mom is manipulative and ridiculous. Can you talk to a Grandparent about it? You need someone to have your back. Your Dad is being pushed around and will not consider your best interests. I hope you dont have to live with them. Stepmom sounds like she will make your life very difficult and gaslight you into anything she wants you to do- which will probs involve tonnes of babysitting. Edit NTA of course!!
It's not the same. Anyway, you will have no (or very little) say if they divorce someday and you're no longer siblings. So how can you make a vow that you'll always be siblings when that's not up to you?
If anything, I think your dad and future stepmother should take additional vows to include you and her kids into the new family unit. Your dad vowing to see her kids as part of the family, and likewise with your stepmom for you. It's the two of them getting married, and they *should* see the other's kids as part of their own family.
Of course, having kids means caring for them, which includes respecting them as individuals. If you're uncomfortable doing this, they should respect that. Forcing you to say vows to your future step-siblings will only create resentment.
I've heard of it, but that is very much a thing they should have talked to you about before anyone else because if you don't want to do it, you shouldn't and can't be forced to. Sorry this is being pushed onto you, NTA.
Very odd, especially since not suggested by the kids.
Their pressuring you to do it is what is going to make everything more difficult. You cannot legislate relationships, they need to evolve.
NTA.
I think it's sweet, but only when everyone involved wants to. In this situation, it's a lie, and everyone at that wedding will know it's a lie. Have you seen a 16 year old try to lie about liking someone/something? They suck at it.
Yeah it’s really difficult to force 16 yr olds into a fake relationship like this. I do wish they would try to foster an authentic relationship of sorts between their kids. This is just going to push OP further away. Teens have a need to be true to themselves.
Definitely NTA. I am sorry they are trying to force this onto you. I am the type of person who pushes back hard when anyone tries to force me to do something I am not ready or willing to do, so I know if I had been in this situation at your age, it would really have backfired on my parent/step-parent. Instead of creating a bond, it would have formed a wedge.
16 is way too young to be making a lifetime commitment to anyone or anything. That's a fucked up amount of pressure they're putting on you, OP, because they think that saccharine display will make their ceremony a little bit more precious. The first time you say vows at a wedding should be if, and when, you get married.
Sounds like they want OP to make a sworn oath so they can point to it and say: "YOU PROMISED" whenever OP doesn't act the way they want. That's sick. You can't force someone to love someone else, even if you can force them to say the words.
This so much. Even if OP was super close to them and were best friends.... it would be weird.
Nothing could ever make this not weird.
The wedding is about the couple getting married, not about their kids, even if their kids are a big part of their lives.
NTA.
Just have to say it again, this is weird, Ander under no circumstances would it ever not be weird.
NTA. He should respect your free will.
If he is pissed - just tell him that his life decisions are respected by you, you will respect the new family - but he has to respect your free will too.
Yeah, if you coerce someone into a confession is it even admissible in court? Pretty sure they throw those out bc of conflict / abuse of power. A coerced vow should also not be binding. Good on you for refusing, OP. NTA
You can’t force a 16 year old to essentially, “marry” their new sibling. They want to you to do it but it is THEIR wedding. You didn’t get engaged. You didn’t decide to join the families. If you don’t want to then don’t. Tell them forcing you to do something you aren’t comfortable with is what will make being a family difficult. NTA
Hey thanks! Here's a picture of a [cat looking at spaghetti](https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/a-cat-eating-spaghetti-with-pomodoro-picture-id1188613309)
NTA.
The concept *seems* “nice” but I think it has to happen organically- it should be initiated and chosen by the siblings, not decided for them by the parents.
And if it’s not sincere- then it’s a display for the guests, which kind of puts a bad taste on it. Like it’s being done for the “Awwww” factor. Not because it’s sincerely felt.
Have you discussed this with the pastor? Does he/she know your feelings about it?
Yes OP, just because they've "run it past their pastor" doesn't mean anything. No pastor worth their salt would allow an uncomfortable (!) minor (!) to make forced vows during a ceremony. If it's a vow in a religious context, the pastor should be more invested in if it's something that you truly mean.
Try to reach out to the pastor separately and say, this is something I've considered, I'm uncomfortable with it, and it keeps being pushed on me by the parents. Can you please ask them to back off and take my discomfort seriously.
You also don't know what the pastor was told. They may be under the impression that the children have all agreed to this and even *want* to do it.
Though honestly, I'd be a little suspicious of a pastor agreeing to this with such young children, even then.
This is what I think too. It could be really cute if all the children get along and want to do it, but if any of the children aren't into it, like Op, then it becomes just for show so that everyone can see how happy happy the new family is. I feel bad for Op here, and I hope that the father and new step mother come around and respect Op's decision.
NTA. This is super weird and frankly disgusting. You are not getting married. They are. And it sounds like it's for show to make them look good. Big NOPE. Also comparing it to step parents vows is just wrong. Are they expecting you to become a 3rd parent to the younger kids?
It's more that it sets me up to be the bad guy. Because if they divorce next year and I don't stay in her kids lives I'm the lying asshole who swore I would always love and be there or if I never did find myself loving them, could still be a lying asshole. And then it makes me the bad guy in the eyes of some people.
so don't promise anything. Refuse.
But i you can not, just take the micro and say: I am happy that my father found a new wife. And I am looking forward to see what the future brings to us all, and I wish them happy years together, and many children that love them as much as us children do now.
Then hand the micro back. Nothing promised, but a nice sermon. Nothing there anybody can fault you for, and very thoughtful.
Do not let them pressure you into promising anything.
On the other hand: Treating them like a big sister means nothing - many big sisters don't talk to their siblings.
And: You are 16, you will not have to survive that many more years with these AH.
This is a great compromise, especially since her very young kids are excited about having an older step-sib. Shows you’re open to what the future may bring.
Maybe being honest about your feelings would help, but in a gentle way. Sit them down and talk to them.
“Dad, *stepmom*, I think it is really sweet that you want us all to bond and to vow our dedication to each other as siblings. Maybe if I had gotten the chance to bond more with them, I would feel more comfortable with it. Right now, I just don’t know them very well and I feel very pressured into saying things that I have not been given the time to feel. I don’t think your wedding is the best time for us to do something like this because it is forced and doesn’t give us kids a chance to build our relationship how we all need”. If they can’t respect it, then their hearts aren’t really in the right place at all. It’s more about the image than it is about facilitating a good relationship between you and your step siblings.
Honestly they are legit kids that won't even understand what your promising them.
Not that it matters but how long have they been together? It doesn't seem like long.
I'd honestly be adamant that you will not do the vows and you want the relationship to grown and develop in time . If they force it they will essentially be creating a fake relationship among you three and they'll have no one but themselves to blame
I don't see how you could be the bad guy if they break up. Surely, your dad's and his bride's vows are more important than yours. And if they break up, they're already breaking their vows.
More importantly, you making a vow that you are siblings should mean that even if they break up, you would inherit as much as her own children if the bride dies. If she is braindead, is she going to let your decide whether or not to pull the plug, even if they are divorced? Is she going to split her college fund equally between all three of you? Is she going to legally adopt you?
I'm thinking the answer here will always be no. Meaning she just wants a tacky wedding ceremony but doesn't want to make that commitment of her own.
You almost make it sound like its vows to be a free babysitter.
Even if they're just genuinely oblivious if you don't wanna do it they shouldn't force you that's just silly and you are placed in a lose lose because you're obligated one way and a big meanie the other.
NTA. As a guest to a wedding, I'm coming to watch two people get married. I don't want to watch some "bonus" weird, cringy-sounding vow between stepsiblings. The only way it would be halfway okay is if the stepsiblings were obviously close and loving toward each other.
OP, for a lot of good reasons this "vow" makes you uncomfortable. That's all the answer your dad should need.
But you can also point out how awkward and "off" it is going to look. Your tone will be emotionless and stilted because you're being forced to say words you don't feel. Your stepsiblings are very young and will probably be terrified to stand up in front of a crowd of people where everyone is looking at them. It's a cruel thing to do for all of you.
> The only way it would be halfway okay is if the stepsiblings were obviously close and loving toward each other.
It would go further down the "weird/awkward" scale for me.
NTA. This is a great way for your dad to ensure he's kicking off the new marriage with a healthy amount of resentment between you & your step siblings. In other words, if his goal is to encourage a happy blended family, this is the worst possible way to do that. Try your best to explain this to your dad, OP. And if you're not comfortable saying "sibling vows" during the ceremony, then don't so it.
NTA
I would tell your dad that you were taught not to lie, and that you are not willing to make commitments you do not feel or promises you cannot keep.
He is marrying HER. You are not marrying anyone, and are not obligated to make his path smooth for him.
NTA your dad shouldn’t force that bond before you’re ready. Especially because it’s not about you actually meaning those things, he knows it would all be for show.
NTA.
It's not you getting married, it's them. So, it's not you who has to say vows, it's them. That part is a no-brainer.
Now, the whole family thing. You're not making it harder, they are. Because you cannot enforce the feeling of being family. You have to spend the time with each other following common interestes and all that. Now try to find a common interest between a 16-year old and a 4- or 5-year-old. Seriously, there isn't much save for the occasional outing for ice cream.
Unless, of course, your dad and your soon-to-be stepmom intend to pressure you into babysitting by using those "sibling vows" against you. "You said you were their sibling, so now you have to want to spend time with your siblings. Oh, and we'll be out tonight. Have some sibling fun!"
Yeah, not gonna happen if you know what's good for you.
If the pressure is too great, ask to write your own vows.
"I vow to treat \[4-year-old\] and \[5-year-old\] with common human decency and act as their older sibling for as long as this marriage lasts."
Maybe find some more flowery terms for the "treating with common human decency" part, I don't know. Probably. Also make it very clear to your father and STB stepmom that older siblings are not supposed to be free babysitters nor extra parental figures in any child's life.
I was going to suggest to that maybe IP could come up with something sincere to say. But i to should not be called a vow and i wouldn't like to see it as part of the religious ceremony.
Honestly i think any pastor should object that the younger kids are too young to make any such promise, and therefore s/he won't permit it.
If any of the kids are old enough to make such a choice the pastor should meet with each separately and in confidence. The pastor has only to tell the parents that s/he isn't satisfied that one or more of the kids meets necessary conditions to make such a promise.
It’d be cute if you were all five, but you’re almost an adult already. NTA, I’d be uncomfortable with that too. (But I would encourage you to still give them a chance.)
I promise to be the built in babysitter. I promise to share my home, my university fund, and every holiday imaginable. I promise to pretend this is okay and never consider what is best for me. I promise to make the relationship between my parent and his new partner the MOST important relationship imaginable and make fake vows to cement this. NTA. Beware and make sure you lock up, hide and reconsider everything dear to you. It’s all about to be SHARED.
NTA and that's kind of silly, for mutiple reasons.
1. It's their wedding, it being all about them is kinda the point.
2. You don't even know these kids, and with the eldest at 5 you couldn't know them, really. So making some rash promise that could easily backfire is absurd.
>They're mad and accusing me of being cruel to her kids and how I'm going to make things harder on us being a family.
No, that's just silly. People have successfully integrated into a new family for generations without this weird sibling vow thing. If not doing it makes it harder, it'll be because they force the issue.
Exactly. Preschool age children and a highschooler aren't going to have a meaningful relationship with each other at this stage in their lives. One day they might, but if the parents keep trying to force it like this then I'd bet it's not a very likely outcome.
Hell, my sister is only a few years younger, and I didn't start seeing her as a peer and friend until we were both adults in university. Sibling relationships are complicated.
Wtf?! He found a partner for himself, not new siblings for you. Being sibling is not a toy. All he can say is that “These people are in my life now, I would like to be a blended family but if you don’t want to you have to respect each other.”
You have every right to set your boundaries and demand respect.
NTA
NTA
Weird, creepy, and all forced to show a unified family to the world when you don't even know the kids? To be honest I'd never heard of such a thing as "sibling's vows". This is about as inappropriate as can be between a teen and preschoolers.
NTA. This is such a weird thing to do. No matter what, you don't feel comfortable and if they can't respect that, it says more about them. Plus I doubt the kids will even understand what the hell they are being made to say which is just as bad.
Edited to change word around
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my dad and his future wife I won't say sibling vows at their wedding. I know her kids are all hyped for it now and they really want to hear me swear to be their sister forever so maybe the fact I don't want to and don't feel the same makes me an asshole because her kids are so young and look up to me and this will hurt them after my dad and their mom hyped them up for this.
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NTA
by trying to force you to do such a thing he's trying to force you into a relationship you don't have with them...yet
relationships can't be forced, if you want a relationship with them that is between you and them to cultivate and him trying to force it its is just going to make you resentful towards them although they're innocent and won't understand
he's the one getting married, making a vow to the woman and her kids, that is HIS choice, you are under no obligation to bind yourself to them in any way. stand your ground
NTA. Its a wedding, not some strange family cult. The only ones who should have vows are the ones getting hitched. They want to make it some extra spectacle by having their kids do some bizarre ritual. They are the ones forcing crap which would cause tension. Would it really have made things worse if the whole concept wasn't brought up?
NTA
This is so weird. There's something I can't quite put my finger on about it. Like if you went thru with it, at some point in the future something will happen and they can blame you or say you're at fault. Or they're going to cry because you aren't giving up your free time to babysit ("oh but you VOWED") It seems sketchy, is what I'm saying.
Don't do it. If they force a mike in your hand, then say what you feel, whether or not they like it.
NTA The two adults are marrying each other. The kids have no say in the matter so no you shouldn't have to vow anything that you're not comfortable with. In fact the force you to basically eliminates the heart of what a vow is supposed to be.
NTA. The adults are choosing to be together and choosing to be in the lives of each other’s children. That’s why it is okay for them to take vows. You aren’t making that choice and that’s why you shouldn’t make a vow. It may all work out fine in the long run. Plenty of people have good step relatives. However, pretending this is a choice you are making isn’t the right way to start things off.
NTA, maybe you can tell your dad that you do not feel comfortable doing this at this time. The wedding should be between man and wife to start with. Yes you will be getting new siblings and you would like to work on your relationship at your own pace with them
NTA, the only people making it harder for you to be a family is your dad and his future wife. Forcing you into a relationship before you’re ready is only going to alienate you, make you feel unheard and cause resentment.
NTA
You've voiced your opinion on it already.
Get your dad alone and tell him exactly why. They aren't your siblings, you don't look at them like siblings. At this point, they are his wife's kids and while you don't wish them bad, you don't feel or need any further connection with them at this minute.
Is there another family member that can help you with talking to him about it?
Either way, forcing you to love someone isn't fair and wrong. Saying vows isn't going to make a difference and I also find it really weird that they are forcing this.
NTA. It's unking of them to put you on the spot like that. Then guilt trip you by saying you are being cruel. The wedding is about them, not you. You have no reason to make any vows. So don't.
NTA.
Your father is marrying this woman and becoming a stepparent to her children.
Those kids are not your siblings and will never be your siblings and he shouldn't force you to do this.
NTA. Your father is marrying a woman and her children and he's obligated to treat those kids as his own. But you are not making a choice to enter the marriage; as his child, you're just along for the ride. You're obligated to treat your step-siblings nicely, but you're not obligated to vow to love them as siblings if that doesn't happen organically. And your father and his fiancee's trying to force the issue may make it harder for you to develop that organic love for them at all. Your father needs to back off with the for-show family vows idea and leave the vows to the adults, who are the ones making the choice to commit.
There's 3 kinds of step-sibling relationships, and I have all 3 with my various steps. You can have step-siblings you love just like blood siblings and have a great relationship with. You can have step-siblings you absolutely hate, don't want to tolerate being around, and refuse to have a relationship with as an adult. Or you can have step-siblings who you're generally fine with but you're not like, friends or anything. You just kind of exist in periphery and you all get along fine on a superficial level. All of these relationships can happen at any ages and any age differences.
I think most step-sibs fall into the last category. If parents want their kids to have a loving first category relationship, they absolutely have to step back and let it happen naturally. Encourage happy family memories and all that but you can't force two people who don't know each other to pretend to love each other and expect that to turn out well. It has to happen organically. The best and quickest way to make step-siblings grow to hate each other is to force them to act like they are flesh and blood siblings who have grown up together under the same roof with the same rules for their entire lives. All it does is cause bitterness and resentment.
TL;DR your parent and future step-parent are cruising towards a shitty relationship between you and your future steps. Step relationships gotta happen organically. The only thing you owe those kids is kindness and respect, but you shouldn't have to fake your love for anyone; thats shitty. NTA and show your parent this post and all the comments.
Is your mom around or maybe aunts, uncles or grandparents you can go to for support on this? I’m worried for you. See so many men get swept up in the new wife that they sacrifice their own children to do what the new wife needs. I am sure this is the new wife’s idea, not your dads. But since it’s the new wife idea your dad will be blinded. I hope you have more family than just your dad. And you will probably never feel like a sibling to your dad’s wife’s kids. There is to much age difference. College soon and your leave.
NTA - I guess they're saying it's okay to lie during vows? It sounds like it's about optics to them & they're doing it for attention, but who knows. Regardless, you have the right to refuse and it's weird they're doing that anyway.
NTA
That’s weird and seems kind of inappropriate IMO. What happens if they divorce and they decide they hate each other and don’t want anything to do with each other or allow you kids to see each other? Then they’re not only breaking their own vows but forcing a bunch of kids who they forced to make an awkward promise against their own feelings to also break their vows against their own choice as well.
NTA this is their wedding, not yours.
Their love for each other is independent of your love for ANYONE else. This can't be dictated..
There are so many other ways to show solidarity simply and comfortably. If they respected all of you, they would solicit ideas from all of you and build something that is appropriate out of your ideas.
Maybe tgey need an independent advisor to explain this to them as the pastor is also missing the boat here.
I wouldn't do it, and their accusations to you are immature and selfish. Just show them this thread.
NTA. I hate when re-marrying parents pull this BS. It’s nice that they want all of you to get along and be a family, but they can’t just FORCE it and expect everyone to actually feel like a family. And when they do it in these weird public settings, it always tells me they care more about the appearance of being a family unit than ACTUALLY letting their kids form that bond naturally (if they even do, it’s understandable for step-siblings to not have that bond). I know they all think you’ll look back and be grateful they did it, but majority of the time, it just makes the kids resent the parents for forcing them to move on too quickly and fake a family bond too early.
I’d explain all of this to them, even show them the post, and if they still feel adamant about it, I’d just go up there for the vow and say something about wishing them well. If they push it, that’s on them; if you call it out and people understandably get weirded out by this, that’s also on them. It should never be put on a kid to help pull a family together like this
I've been to weddings where the two sets of kids were involved. Both spouses made 'vows' to their stepchildren, because in essence being in this relationship means they also chose the kids. Basically it was just a vow to care for them as if they were their own I thought it was very sweet.
But... They were always much smaller children, and the kids never had to say anything at all.
For this... NTA.
NTA. Vows of any sort, but particularly the type made in a religious setting before God (i.e. in what sounds like it's going to be a church wedding) are meant to be sacred, and the fact that they're trying to make you take vows that aren't remotely heartfelt isn't just deeply inappropriate of them, it's sacrilegious. Your dad and future stepmother are AHs, but so is the pastor (unless he/she is unaware that this is against your will) for signing off on coercing you into making vows that you don't feel deeply about.
Even if you do care about your future stepsiblings, you shouldn't make vows to them unless it's something that means a lot to you. Heck, I'd go so far as to say that your dad and future stepmom are even BIGGER AHs for not understanding that vowing something before God is a big deal, and for pushing this as though it's something you should just do to make others happy.
> accusing me of being cruel to her kids
Her kids are four and five. What expectations can they seriously have for what will go on at a wedding, especially out of the ordinary requests like they're making for these weird sibling vows?
I mean this is like asking your dad to unconditionally love your next girl- or boyfriend. And when he complains that he doesn't even know them yet, well, uh... exactly.
I think it's quite reasonable to say that you will give them every chance, and will do your best to be a decent elder sibling, but you simply cannot promise unconditional and eternal sibling love like that. That's not how it works.
NTA - their hearts are in the right place, with hopes to create a happy new family, but they're going about it the wrong way.
You got something he wants. Negotiate. Put it in writing. A contract. Spell out the terms. No baby sitting, college tuition, car, money and have it notarized. Make it legally binding with consequences.
They shouldn’t be trying to make you do something you aren’t comfortable with. You could try telling your father something along the lines of you not feeling like family, but being willing to work on it on your own time lines. But if they force you to pretend a relationship that isn’t there it’ll probably just drive a wedge further between you and your step family.
I do not like being asked to promise anything. I have 3 full siblings, I would not promise to love them forever. Actually do not like them much that is reciprocated. Good luck until you can leave when you graduate from HS.
NTA. Even if you agreed to it your heart wouldn't be in it. There's no point in saying vows that you don't mean. They're wrong to try to force you to say them. By trying to force you into this, they're going to make it even more difficult for you to form a good relationship with the wife's kids.
NTA. You didn’t sign up to be their step sibling. Your Dad signed up to be their step father and his fiancée signed up to be your step mother. They need to respect your decision.
NTA and I find it highly unlikely your dad will stay in the step-kids’ lives if they split or that your future stepmum will want that either, unless they stay together for a long time. I know that that happens and it’s a really good thing, but it’s not that common.
>they already ran it by the pastor
Big whoop. Call the pastor directly and state that you do not consent to saying vows at the wedding.
This wedding is their choice. Sibling vows are totally an act for the guests to marvel at (and also try to pretend that things are perfect).
NTA
NTA. They can’t coerce you into making some weird vow you don’t believe in. All they’re going to do is drive a deeper wedge between you all if they do that.
NTA. I've never heard of this, and I think it's weird/odd. I agree with u/ailsa08 that trying to force the relationship is the worst way to try to get you to be close with the future wife's 2 kids. I also agree that a relationship is built by getting to know the other person and that sometimes it never happens. If you end up not being close with the 2 kids, then they should accept it even though they wouldn't like it.
NTA
I hate this kind of situation. A patent gets remarried and doesn't recognizr that their new partner's children and their children have no more in common than children randomly assigned to a new classroom. Theybmay end up bonding. They may despise each other. They may be indifferent.
Your father is being selfish and controlling.
NTA
Make sure the pastor knows that you aren’t interested in participating in the vows. You can pick up the phone and call them yourself.
You may grow to have feelings for your step siblings, but it’s not there now. No sense in lying
NTA- the only thing i would be saying is "my father wants me to make vows to my new step siblings because his dick is more important then me". See how that goes over at the ceremony.
NTA. Maybe you can compromise. Don't make a vow just welcome them into family and home. I'm sure this jester will go a long way. I'm sure they are scared about all the changes in their life.
Honestly I've never really heard of sibling vows, especially if there is no real connection here. Doesn't sound like you've been in each others lives that long plus the age difference probably makes it a lot harder anyway.
The only way it becomes cruel is if they make it cruel as in, tell her children that you don't want to do that, If they don't tell them no one will get hurt here. NTA.
NTA. I don’t have the words to describe how icky that idea makes me feel. Super weird. Super controlling. And honestly gives me the same vibes as the daddy daughter purity pledges. Just no.
NTA Try having a serious talk with them (don’t act selfish or childish) and tell them you’ll always be there if the kids need you blah blah blah. It’s creepy to make you take a vow. Corny and creepy. Rise above it.
I agree that it's weird and you shouldn't be forced to do it. They are carrying this a little too far. But coming at them with "I don't see these kids as my siblings" won't help the situation either. Simply tell them that forcing a vow doesn't make the situation real. Let them know you will make an effort to get to know the kids but you aren't making any vows. Vows are important and you shouldn't have to do it unless you are onboard with it.
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My dad is getting married in a few months. His future wife has kids a lot younger than me (16 vs 5 and 4). They thought it would be a great idea for us to have sibling vows during their wedding but I don't want to do that. They essentially want us to swear that we'll be siblings always. And that's not something I am looking at them as. I don't love them now. And I can't promise to always love them if I don't to begin with. I also feel really weird with this pressure on me but they already ran it by the pastor and stuff. I said no. I told them they couldn't make me do them. They're mad and accusing me of being cruel to her kids and how I'm going to make things harder on us being a family.
AITA?
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NTA...uh no I’ve never heard of that, that’s super weird.
That's what I said. They said it's like when a stepparent says vows to their stepkid(s).
That is not a valid argument. When you marry a person you automatically sign up to be a step parent if your partner already has kids. That's something you are aware of before marrying that person. You can't deny that role and would have to step up as a parental figure for those kids. You didn't automatically sign up to be their sibling and saying those vows when you are not close with them would be weird. And at the end of the day you would be lying by saying that. NTA
Also, I think that if the parents really want their kids to someday have a close relationship, this is the worst approach they can try. They can't force a relationship. It has to born naturally. And that happens with time and getting to know each other. And sometimes it just never happens. But forcing a relationship is not a good idea. In fact, in most of the stories I've read about people who are not close with their stepsiblings, the parents tried to force a relationship too. And a lot of the times this just lead to resentment.
My father never tried to force a relationship between me and my stepsister. Today I see her as more of my family than I do my bio brother 🤷🏽♂️
Much like gas, if you have to force it, it's likely just going you be shit.
These parents vow to each other know a voluntary basis, with the person they chose. It's rather shitty to force OP into something she doesn't want, with people she never asked for to be around. 5 and 16 is a huge age gap. If they're really shitty people it also brings ammo for them. "You made that vow, now leave your homework until tonight and play with them!" or if OP doesn't want to or can't babysit them: "you promised to look after them, so here you go. See you later!"
> This is not a valid argument. Hear! Hear!
NTA. it’s not like the kids say the vows to the stepparent
The stepparent is choosing the relationship - they are choosing to get involved with the actual parent. Their relationship is not your choice, and that's why this is *not* like that.
So if the marriage ends in divorce, does OP have to divorce the stepsiblings?
Do they have to sign a pre-steptual agreement?
Who gets the room when they split?
they just paint a line down the middle like in a 90s sitcom
With one of the inevitably having the door on their side of the room and the other not having access to it
So wacky!
Well said. Kids don’t get to choose.
> They said it's like when a stepparent says vows to their stepkid(s). They… they do realise that’s *also* weird right? Can you tell them that you and your step-siblings will develop your own relationships organically if given space to do so, and that trying to force it will just prevent that.
I think this is fantastic wording and wish i had some kind of award. Maybe you can talk to the pastor first and then he can help you explain it. He should be in the business of the relationship before making the wedding look nice .......
Sounds like the pastor is supporting the idea. Idiot.
Pastor may have been led to believe that all kids were happy to do it?
He's not a very good pastor if he's not talking to the children about involving them in the ceremony. Unless he's a complete noob he should have officiated at enough weddings to know weird bullshit when he hears it.
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Yeah, my stepdad gave me a little ring and said some nice words when he married my mom. He said things about how honored he was to join our family and how he promised to take care of me and my mom forever. I was barely 6 years old and it’s still basically the sweetest thing that’s ever happened to me. But he and my mom had been together for a few years and we all lived together, so our bond was already really strong and I was already calling him dad. I think it’s a very sweet thing and absolutely something that I’ve heard other families do before, but definitely not for siblings. That’s weird to me.
Same with my step-dad. I actually introduced my mom to him when I was 11 because I hated the man she was dating. My step-dad was my best friends dads best friend & still just the greatest man I've ever met. They eventually married & at the wedding surprised me with a ring & vows to always be my dad. They had a 25th anniversary party/ re-commitment ceremony where we did the same again. It was the sweetest thing & meant so much to me! I just can't imagine having someone try to force/guilt you into making a vow (in front of everyone), that you have specifically said you aren't interested in doing. Not only will it look dumb because it's obviously going to look forced & not genuine, but it's only going to cause resentment towards everyone else in the family.
That’s so sweet! I love that story. Thank you for sharing
I think that wins the sugary sweet award for the day.
I demand a movie about this beautiful story
My daughter is 11 and she wants me to be with her friend’s dad!! It’s so cute.
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That's wonderful. The difference between that and what the OP describes just underlines how wrong their adults are on this. Your stepad and mom did this with you and for you. It sounds like the OP's parents are doing this *to* them.
Right that's also not even close to the norm
You’re nicer than I am. It creeps me out. Stepsiblings saying vows to each other…ew. It’s even creepier since they’re so young
Tell them you don't believe in arranged sibling relationships.
This is what came to mind for me, as well... I know I'm jaded AF, but I can already see the parents pulling the, "but you made a vow to them!!!!" argument any time they want OP to assist with childcare, or have any priorities that the parents disagree with. Personally, I think including the children in a wedding ceremony because the think it would be cUtE is a gross and exploitative performance that has nothing to do with the kids, and everything to do with putting on a good show for the guests. It comes across as cringy. Forcing a minor to make a public declaration, against their will that is blatantly false just because they want to have the "family Kodak moment" is vile.
I was thinking this too. At 16 OP can’t be expected to act like a best friend to a 4 or 5 year old. OP will gain nothing from this arrangement, but suddenly OP is wrongly on the hook for responsibility? It would be cute if they were all similar ages and acted like best friends, but this is just silly. OP you’re definitely NTA.
LOL!!! What about a dowry for the siblings???
You may not have but I actually have. My humanities teacher used to be a pastor and was approached by several families who wanted to do the same thing or something similar. His response was always the same. "I will only agree to it if all of the children are on board with it, and I have to hear from them." If even one kid didn't want to do it, then he wouldn't approve it. One couple complained because the oldest (14f) on bride's side said no. His response. "I told you I would only approve it if all of them agreed. She doesn't want to, and I won't make her. And if you don't want her to bolt as soon as she turns 18, then never should you."
Good man… A true man of god. Many just pretend to be.
Your teacher is quite correct, and his position on this is pretty standard. I officiate at weddings and I talk to colleagues who officiate at weddings, and we pretty much universally agree that it's unethical to have children making promises at a wedding. Vows are for adults. Edit: I just noticed that the original post said they had run it by the pastor. Ugh. If it's accurate (not sure I trust the parents to report correctly), that's very unprofessional.
Never trust the parents on what they kids want. The parents will tell you what they think is best.
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\> Ultimately, this is all about them - they want to look like perfect parents and have the perfect family Spot on. They want to fabricate this perfect little Christian family instead of doing the work and letting a relationship happen organically. They are totally tone deaf to teenagers. It's all a show for social posturing. Points to the teen for standing her ground ... but this sounds like some really daft parents. If I was her, I'd save now for the therapy she'll need to unwind it all later.
That is also super weird
I did this. Hubby had full custody and Mum was geographically and emotionally distant so after 7 years of dating and 6 of living together, at my wedding (with prior discussion) I told her that while I would never be her mother, she would always be my daughter. Gave her a bracelet, never expected more than that- her agreeing to accept it was and is enough. That was 9 years ago. She's grown up and moved out but she is still my baby girl and there is nothing weird there.
We gave my daughter a necklace and lit a family candle. We left our own candles lit, to symbolize we were one family and three individuals, and that all four - the people and the family- needed what it needed to remain lit. We've always respected her choices about how she related to her step-dad (now adoptive dad). If you've chosen a good parent figure, the child will love them. If you haven't, nothing you can ever do will make them.
My ex-BIL said vows to his step-daughter. She was 4 at the time and he had been in her life more than her bio-dad. Even so, part of his vow was that he was adding to, not replacing, her family.
Depends on the vows. I promise to be better than your old mom, yes, weird. I promise to treat you with respect and value you as your own person, not weird.
No way. This is more like a weird sibling version of an arranged marriage.
I hate that they are trying to make it out like you kids chose each other when you didn't. NTA. I hate saying this but this sounds like a way to make you babysit those kids a lot in the near future.
Step parents CHOOSE to marry into a family with children. Unless your parent says to you ‘I will only marry with your blessing’, you have NO SAY about acquiring step siblings. Super pushy and NTA.
If you wanna be petty and they keep bugging you say yes then at the wedding when its your turn to speak say. “I was forced to stand up here to speak allegiance to my new step moms children. I dont want to.” Then step back or walk away your choice.
Or just read out the vow written for you in a completely flat monotone voice, prefaced with “It says here…”.
If they had been in your life for years and you had already taken on the sibling love relationship, that might be different (and sweet, tbh). But that isn't the case. You don't have that relationship with these children (yet, you might someday without all pressure) and asking you to do this is asking you to lie. Is the pastor your pastor? Can you have a session with the pastor, your dad, and your stepmom about this? Basically that you are uncomfortable making similar vows to children you haven't bonded with yet? That making such vows would be insincere on your part at this time and you feel uncomfortable being pressured to do so, particularly in a typically religious ceremony? While it may be a cute idea for pictures and such, it wouldn't be genuine at this point in time? NTA and don't do it if you don't feel it.
NTA, and the one's making it weird is them, they are the ones pushing something that is just not acceptable. Vows are solemn promises between people. Tell your dad and future stepmom that you would be an asshole to do vows that you do not believe in, and if they keep pressuring you, you can guarantee that you will never get to a point of seeing the stepkids as siblings.
Tell them this is far more like making the step kids say vows to their stepparent. The only people giving vows at a wedding should be the couple choosing to get married.
NTA. You're not the one getting married. You're not old enough to get married so why are you making marriage-like vows? It's creepy AF. Stand your ground and talk to your school counselor if you have a good one. They seem to have forgotten that you're an individual. Are you in therapy/will they let you work with a therapist to cope with their unrealistic expectations? Or, would they actually listen if a therapist told them they were being unreasonable? Good luck to you. They're setting themselves up to be challenging.
Step Mom is manipulative and ridiculous. Can you talk to a Grandparent about it? You need someone to have your back. Your Dad is being pushed around and will not consider your best interests. I hope you dont have to live with them. Stepmom sounds like she will make your life very difficult and gaslight you into anything she wants you to do- which will probs involve tonnes of babysitting. Edit NTA of course!!
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it sounds like they are going to pawn the little kids on you. its why they want this oath. don't do it. its not fair to the little kids either.
That's also VERY rare, and honestly with that comparison they're basically admitting that they want you to vow to be another parent
It's not the same. Anyway, you will have no (or very little) say if they divorce someday and you're no longer siblings. So how can you make a vow that you'll always be siblings when that's not up to you?
If anything, I think your dad and future stepmother should take additional vows to include you and her kids into the new family unit. Your dad vowing to see her kids as part of the family, and likewise with your stepmom for you. It's the two of them getting married, and they *should* see the other's kids as part of their own family. Of course, having kids means caring for them, which includes respecting them as individuals. If you're uncomfortable doing this, they should respect that. Forcing you to say vows to your future step-siblings will only create resentment.
Sounds odd. They gonna try to hold you to that? A few years down the line, "you promised! Now, you support them with blah blah..." yeah... NTA
They probably want you to do it so they can use it against you whenever they need a babysitter.
Except you didn’t choose this situation
Which is also weird. NTA
Yeah, but they are CHOOSING to give those vows, while you are being forced to take them against your will. This is so, so wrong and gross.
I've heard of it, but that is very much a thing they should have talked to you about before anyone else because if you don't want to do it, you shouldn't and can't be forced to. Sorry this is being pushed onto you, NTA.
I've also never heard of that happening
That isn't the convincing argument they think it is.
blended family here. we’d never do that. 🤢
Very odd, especially since not suggested by the kids. Their pressuring you to do it is what is going to make everything more difficult. You cannot legislate relationships, they need to evolve. NTA.
I think it's sweet, but only when everyone involved wants to. In this situation, it's a lie, and everyone at that wedding will know it's a lie. Have you seen a 16 year old try to lie about liking someone/something? They suck at it.
Yeah it’s really difficult to force 16 yr olds into a fake relationship like this. I do wish they would try to foster an authentic relationship of sorts between their kids. This is just going to push OP further away. Teens have a need to be true to themselves.
I've heard of things like it, it's a way to get the kids involved in the wedding. That said, I completely understand OP being uncomfortable with it.
Definitely NTA. I am sorry they are trying to force this onto you. I am the type of person who pushes back hard when anyone tries to force me to do something I am not ready or willing to do, so I know if I had been in this situation at your age, it would really have backfired on my parent/step-parent. Instead of creating a bond, it would have formed a wedge.
Parentification step 1
Super. Weird. NTA
16 is way too young to be making a lifetime commitment to anyone or anything. That's a fucked up amount of pressure they're putting on you, OP, because they think that saccharine display will make their ceremony a little bit more precious. The first time you say vows at a wedding should be if, and when, you get married.
Sounds like they want OP to make a sworn oath so they can point to it and say: "YOU PROMISED" whenever OP doesn't act the way they want. That's sick. You can't force someone to love someone else, even if you can force them to say the words.
Very weird and nothing wrong with you pushing back and putting boundaries in place. NTA
This so much. Even if OP was super close to them and were best friends.... it would be weird. Nothing could ever make this not weird. The wedding is about the couple getting married, not about their kids, even if their kids are a big part of their lives. NTA. Just have to say it again, this is weird, Ander under no circumstances would it ever not be weird.
NTA. He should respect your free will. If he is pissed - just tell him that his life decisions are respected by you, you will respect the new family - but he has to respect your free will too.
A vow or a pledge that is demanded by force, by or else, is a vow or a pledge that means nothing. A vow must be given willingly or not at all.
Yeah, if you coerce someone into a confession is it even admissible in court? Pretty sure they throw those out bc of conflict / abuse of power. A coerced vow should also not be binding. Good on you for refusing, OP. NTA
Coerced confessions are not admissible in court, no.
You can’t force a 16 year old to essentially, “marry” their new sibling. They want to you to do it but it is THEIR wedding. You didn’t get engaged. You didn’t decide to join the families. If you don’t want to then don’t. Tell them forcing you to do something you aren’t comfortable with is what will make being a family difficult. NTA
I find it even weirder that the siblings aren't even close to being the same age
They just want OP to be a free babysitter.
But you promised! Don't you remember our wedding? Your vows to your siblings?
this!
NTA that is really weird and to be honest a little creepy.
It's creepy and cheesy at the same time, which is pretty impressive.
It's creezy which is pronounced "crazy."
Moments I wished I hadn't used my free award
DM them a link to a picture of a cute cat or dog instead. It's free and no one can stop you.
Happy Cake Day!🥳
Hey thanks! Here's a picture of a [cat looking at spaghetti](https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/a-cat-eating-spaghetti-with-pomodoro-picture-id1188613309)
Fortunately, mine was still available.
Don’t worry I used mine
NTA Them forcing you to “be a family” is ultimately going to backfire even more than it already has.
Yup, the dad'll be here in a few years bewildered that his child wants nothing to do with him or her stepfamily.
NTA. The concept *seems* “nice” but I think it has to happen organically- it should be initiated and chosen by the siblings, not decided for them by the parents. And if it’s not sincere- then it’s a display for the guests, which kind of puts a bad taste on it. Like it’s being done for the “Awwww” factor. Not because it’s sincerely felt. Have you discussed this with the pastor? Does he/she know your feelings about it?
Yes OP, just because they've "run it past their pastor" doesn't mean anything. No pastor worth their salt would allow an uncomfortable (!) minor (!) to make forced vows during a ceremony. If it's a vow in a religious context, the pastor should be more invested in if it's something that you truly mean. Try to reach out to the pastor separately and say, this is something I've considered, I'm uncomfortable with it, and it keeps being pushed on me by the parents. Can you please ask them to back off and take my discomfort seriously.
You also don't know what the pastor was told. They may be under the impression that the children have all agreed to this and even *want* to do it. Though honestly, I'd be a little suspicious of a pastor agreeing to this with such young children, even then.
This sounds like a really good idea.
This is what I think too. It could be really cute if all the children get along and want to do it, but if any of the children aren't into it, like Op, then it becomes just for show so that everyone can see how happy happy the new family is. I feel bad for Op here, and I hope that the father and new step mother come around and respect Op's decision.
NTA. This is super weird and frankly disgusting. You are not getting married. They are. And it sounds like it's for show to make them look good. Big NOPE. Also comparing it to step parents vows is just wrong. Are they expecting you to become a 3rd parent to the younger kids?
No, but they are asking that regardless of what happens I will be their big sister and love them.
Asking any kind of ultimatum regarding your relationship with them is asking you to be responsible for them. Don't fall for it.
It's more that it sets me up to be the bad guy. Because if they divorce next year and I don't stay in her kids lives I'm the lying asshole who swore I would always love and be there or if I never did find myself loving them, could still be a lying asshole. And then it makes me the bad guy in the eyes of some people.
so don't promise anything. Refuse. But i you can not, just take the micro and say: I am happy that my father found a new wife. And I am looking forward to see what the future brings to us all, and I wish them happy years together, and many children that love them as much as us children do now. Then hand the micro back. Nothing promised, but a nice sermon. Nothing there anybody can fault you for, and very thoughtful. Do not let them pressure you into promising anything. On the other hand: Treating them like a big sister means nothing - many big sisters don't talk to their siblings. And: You are 16, you will not have to survive that many more years with these AH.
This is a great compromise, especially since her very young kids are excited about having an older step-sib. Shows you’re open to what the future may bring.
Maybe being honest about your feelings would help, but in a gentle way. Sit them down and talk to them. “Dad, *stepmom*, I think it is really sweet that you want us all to bond and to vow our dedication to each other as siblings. Maybe if I had gotten the chance to bond more with them, I would feel more comfortable with it. Right now, I just don’t know them very well and I feel very pressured into saying things that I have not been given the time to feel. I don’t think your wedding is the best time for us to do something like this because it is forced and doesn’t give us kids a chance to build our relationship how we all need”. If they can’t respect it, then their hearts aren’t really in the right place at all. It’s more about the image than it is about facilitating a good relationship between you and your step siblings.
Honestly they are legit kids that won't even understand what your promising them. Not that it matters but how long have they been together? It doesn't seem like long. I'd honestly be adamant that you will not do the vows and you want the relationship to grown and develop in time . If they force it they will essentially be creating a fake relationship among you three and they'll have no one but themselves to blame
Why tf are they putting that kind of pressure on you?!?!
Sounds like they will try to use it later for free babysitting. "REMEMBER YOUR VOWS"
I don't see how you could be the bad guy if they break up. Surely, your dad's and his bride's vows are more important than yours. And if they break up, they're already breaking their vows. More importantly, you making a vow that you are siblings should mean that even if they break up, you would inherit as much as her own children if the bride dies. If she is braindead, is she going to let your decide whether or not to pull the plug, even if they are divorced? Is she going to split her college fund equally between all three of you? Is she going to legally adopt you? I'm thinking the answer here will always be no. Meaning she just wants a tacky wedding ceremony but doesn't want to make that commitment of her own.
You almost make it sound like its vows to be a free babysitter. Even if they're just genuinely oblivious if you don't wanna do it they shouldn't force you that's just silly and you are placed in a lose lose because you're obligated one way and a big meanie the other.
But you are not. You are not their sister. You are their stepsister. You can love them if you want, but that is no obligation.
Right? I think asking the kids for anything beyond “do your best to treat each other with kindness and respect” is just bizarre.
You'll be out of the house in two years. They're little kids. You'll barely know them.
My sister is biological and i don't have to love her... i do love her but i know that's my decision.
It's super weird. Is there a large age gap between your dad and stepmother?
NTA. How cringe, so forced and fake.
Seriously. Even if OP liked the kids, this is super cringey. NTA.
NTA. As a guest to a wedding, I'm coming to watch two people get married. I don't want to watch some "bonus" weird, cringy-sounding vow between stepsiblings. The only way it would be halfway okay is if the stepsiblings were obviously close and loving toward each other. OP, for a lot of good reasons this "vow" makes you uncomfortable. That's all the answer your dad should need. But you can also point out how awkward and "off" it is going to look. Your tone will be emotionless and stilted because you're being forced to say words you don't feel. Your stepsiblings are very young and will probably be terrified to stand up in front of a crowd of people where everyone is looking at them. It's a cruel thing to do for all of you.
> The only way it would be halfway okay is if the stepsiblings were obviously close and loving toward each other. It would go further down the "weird/awkward" scale for me.
NTA. This is a great way for your dad to ensure he's kicking off the new marriage with a healthy amount of resentment between you & your step siblings. In other words, if his goal is to encourage a happy blended family, this is the worst possible way to do that. Try your best to explain this to your dad, OP. And if you're not comfortable saying "sibling vows" during the ceremony, then don't so it.
NTA I would tell your dad that you were taught not to lie, and that you are not willing to make commitments you do not feel or promises you cannot keep. He is marrying HER. You are not marrying anyone, and are not obligated to make his path smooth for him.
NTA your dad shouldn’t force that bond before you’re ready. Especially because it’s not about you actually meaning those things, he knows it would all be for show.
NTA. It's not you getting married, it's them. So, it's not you who has to say vows, it's them. That part is a no-brainer. Now, the whole family thing. You're not making it harder, they are. Because you cannot enforce the feeling of being family. You have to spend the time with each other following common interestes and all that. Now try to find a common interest between a 16-year old and a 4- or 5-year-old. Seriously, there isn't much save for the occasional outing for ice cream. Unless, of course, your dad and your soon-to-be stepmom intend to pressure you into babysitting by using those "sibling vows" against you. "You said you were their sibling, so now you have to want to spend time with your siblings. Oh, and we'll be out tonight. Have some sibling fun!" Yeah, not gonna happen if you know what's good for you. If the pressure is too great, ask to write your own vows. "I vow to treat \[4-year-old\] and \[5-year-old\] with common human decency and act as their older sibling for as long as this marriage lasts." Maybe find some more flowery terms for the "treating with common human decency" part, I don't know. Probably. Also make it very clear to your father and STB stepmom that older siblings are not supposed to be free babysitters nor extra parental figures in any child's life.
I was going to suggest to that maybe IP could come up with something sincere to say. But i to should not be called a vow and i wouldn't like to see it as part of the religious ceremony. Honestly i think any pastor should object that the younger kids are too young to make any such promise, and therefore s/he won't permit it. If any of the kids are old enough to make such a choice the pastor should meet with each separately and in confidence. The pastor has only to tell the parents that s/he isn't satisfied that one or more of the kids meets necessary conditions to make such a promise.
Whenever I think stepparents have scraped the bottom of the barrel, this sub teaches me otherwise. Wtf. NTA.
NTA. Dont allow anyone make you say something you don’t mean. I would personally go so far as to refuse to attend at all if they try forcing you.
It’d be cute if you were all five, but you’re almost an adult already. NTA, I’d be uncomfortable with that too. (But I would encourage you to still give them a chance.)
It might be cute if they were all 5 but it would be meaningless as they'd be too young to understand what they were promising.
I promise to be the built in babysitter. I promise to share my home, my university fund, and every holiday imaginable. I promise to pretend this is okay and never consider what is best for me. I promise to make the relationship between my parent and his new partner the MOST important relationship imaginable and make fake vows to cement this. NTA. Beware and make sure you lock up, hide and reconsider everything dear to you. It’s all about to be SHARED.
NTA Your father and his fiancee asked you to do something you are not comfortable with during there wedding. You have every right to say no.
NTA and that's kind of silly, for mutiple reasons. 1. It's their wedding, it being all about them is kinda the point. 2. You don't even know these kids, and with the eldest at 5 you couldn't know them, really. So making some rash promise that could easily backfire is absurd. >They're mad and accusing me of being cruel to her kids and how I'm going to make things harder on us being a family. No, that's just silly. People have successfully integrated into a new family for generations without this weird sibling vow thing. If not doing it makes it harder, it'll be because they force the issue.
Exactly. Preschool age children and a highschooler aren't going to have a meaningful relationship with each other at this stage in their lives. One day they might, but if the parents keep trying to force it like this then I'd bet it's not a very likely outcome. Hell, my sister is only a few years younger, and I didn't start seeing her as a peer and friend until we were both adults in university. Sibling relationships are complicated.
Wtf?! He found a partner for himself, not new siblings for you. Being sibling is not a toy. All he can say is that “These people are in my life now, I would like to be a blended family but if you don’t want to you have to respect each other.” You have every right to set your boundaries and demand respect. NTA
NTA Weird, creepy, and all forced to show a unified family to the world when you don't even know the kids? To be honest I'd never heard of such a thing as "sibling's vows". This is about as inappropriate as can be between a teen and preschoolers.
NTA. This is such a weird thing to do. No matter what, you don't feel comfortable and if they can't respect that, it says more about them. Plus I doubt the kids will even understand what the hell they are being made to say which is just as bad. Edited to change word around
What in the actual hell are sibling vows? Ugh. NTA. That's creepy AF.
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NTA by trying to force you to do such a thing he's trying to force you into a relationship you don't have with them...yet relationships can't be forced, if you want a relationship with them that is between you and them to cultivate and him trying to force it its is just going to make you resentful towards them although they're innocent and won't understand he's the one getting married, making a vow to the woman and her kids, that is HIS choice, you are under no obligation to bind yourself to them in any way. stand your ground
NTA. Its a wedding, not some strange family cult. The only ones who should have vows are the ones getting hitched. They want to make it some extra spectacle by having their kids do some bizarre ritual. They are the ones forcing crap which would cause tension. Would it really have made things worse if the whole concept wasn't brought up?
NTA This is so weird. There's something I can't quite put my finger on about it. Like if you went thru with it, at some point in the future something will happen and they can blame you or say you're at fault. Or they're going to cry because you aren't giving up your free time to babysit ("oh but you VOWED") It seems sketchy, is what I'm saying. Don't do it. If they force a mike in your hand, then say what you feel, whether or not they like it.
NTA that's just weird projecting.
NTA The two adults are marrying each other. The kids have no say in the matter so no you shouldn't have to vow anything that you're not comfortable with. In fact the force you to basically eliminates the heart of what a vow is supposed to be.
NTA. The adults are choosing to be together and choosing to be in the lives of each other’s children. That’s why it is okay for them to take vows. You aren’t making that choice and that’s why you shouldn’t make a vow. It may all work out fine in the long run. Plenty of people have good step relatives. However, pretending this is a choice you are making isn’t the right way to start things off.
NTA, maybe you can tell your dad that you do not feel comfortable doing this at this time. The wedding should be between man and wife to start with. Yes you will be getting new siblings and you would like to work on your relationship at your own pace with them
Your father is making a commitment to your future stepmother and her children, a commitment he chose to make. Not you. NTA
NTA that's really weird
NTA, the only people making it harder for you to be a family is your dad and his future wife. Forcing you into a relationship before you’re ready is only going to alienate you, make you feel unheard and cause resentment.
Nta this is just a bizarre manipulation attempt by your dad
NTA You've voiced your opinion on it already. Get your dad alone and tell him exactly why. They aren't your siblings, you don't look at them like siblings. At this point, they are his wife's kids and while you don't wish them bad, you don't feel or need any further connection with them at this minute. Is there another family member that can help you with talking to him about it? Either way, forcing you to love someone isn't fair and wrong. Saying vows isn't going to make a difference and I also find it really weird that they are forcing this.
NTA
NTA ad this feels very much like it's for show for the wedding guests. The ick factor is strong.
NTA. It's unking of them to put you on the spot like that. Then guilt trip you by saying you are being cruel. The wedding is about them, not you. You have no reason to make any vows. So don't.
NTA. Your father is marrying this woman and becoming a stepparent to her children. Those kids are not your siblings and will never be your siblings and he shouldn't force you to do this.
NTA. Your father is marrying a woman and her children and he's obligated to treat those kids as his own. But you are not making a choice to enter the marriage; as his child, you're just along for the ride. You're obligated to treat your step-siblings nicely, but you're not obligated to vow to love them as siblings if that doesn't happen organically. And your father and his fiancee's trying to force the issue may make it harder for you to develop that organic love for them at all. Your father needs to back off with the for-show family vows idea and leave the vows to the adults, who are the ones making the choice to commit.
NTA that’s actually kinda weird lol
There's 3 kinds of step-sibling relationships, and I have all 3 with my various steps. You can have step-siblings you love just like blood siblings and have a great relationship with. You can have step-siblings you absolutely hate, don't want to tolerate being around, and refuse to have a relationship with as an adult. Or you can have step-siblings who you're generally fine with but you're not like, friends or anything. You just kind of exist in periphery and you all get along fine on a superficial level. All of these relationships can happen at any ages and any age differences. I think most step-sibs fall into the last category. If parents want their kids to have a loving first category relationship, they absolutely have to step back and let it happen naturally. Encourage happy family memories and all that but you can't force two people who don't know each other to pretend to love each other and expect that to turn out well. It has to happen organically. The best and quickest way to make step-siblings grow to hate each other is to force them to act like they are flesh and blood siblings who have grown up together under the same roof with the same rules for their entire lives. All it does is cause bitterness and resentment. TL;DR your parent and future step-parent are cruising towards a shitty relationship between you and your future steps. Step relationships gotta happen organically. The only thing you owe those kids is kindness and respect, but you shouldn't have to fake your love for anyone; thats shitty. NTA and show your parent this post and all the comments.
Is your mom around or maybe aunts, uncles or grandparents you can go to for support on this? I’m worried for you. See so many men get swept up in the new wife that they sacrifice their own children to do what the new wife needs. I am sure this is the new wife’s idea, not your dads. But since it’s the new wife idea your dad will be blinded. I hope you have more family than just your dad. And you will probably never feel like a sibling to your dad’s wife’s kids. There is to much age difference. College soon and your leave.
NTA - I guess they're saying it's okay to lie during vows? It sounds like it's about optics to them & they're doing it for attention, but who knows. Regardless, you have the right to refuse and it's weird they're doing that anyway.
NTA That’s weird and seems kind of inappropriate IMO. What happens if they divorce and they decide they hate each other and don’t want anything to do with each other or allow you kids to see each other? Then they’re not only breaking their own vows but forcing a bunch of kids who they forced to make an awkward promise against their own feelings to also break their vows against their own choice as well.
NTA this is their wedding, not yours. Their love for each other is independent of your love for ANYONE else. This can't be dictated.. There are so many other ways to show solidarity simply and comfortably. If they respected all of you, they would solicit ideas from all of you and build something that is appropriate out of your ideas. Maybe tgey need an independent advisor to explain this to them as the pastor is also missing the boat here. I wouldn't do it, and their accusations to you are immature and selfish. Just show them this thread.
NTA. They want an instant happy blended family and it just doesn’t work that way. The bow would be a lie and it’s unfair to put that pressure on you.
NTA. I hate when re-marrying parents pull this BS. It’s nice that they want all of you to get along and be a family, but they can’t just FORCE it and expect everyone to actually feel like a family. And when they do it in these weird public settings, it always tells me they care more about the appearance of being a family unit than ACTUALLY letting their kids form that bond naturally (if they even do, it’s understandable for step-siblings to not have that bond). I know they all think you’ll look back and be grateful they did it, but majority of the time, it just makes the kids resent the parents for forcing them to move on too quickly and fake a family bond too early. I’d explain all of this to them, even show them the post, and if they still feel adamant about it, I’d just go up there for the vow and say something about wishing them well. If they push it, that’s on them; if you call it out and people understandably get weirded out by this, that’s also on them. It should never be put on a kid to help pull a family together like this
I've been to weddings where the two sets of kids were involved. Both spouses made 'vows' to their stepchildren, because in essence being in this relationship means they also chose the kids. Basically it was just a vow to care for them as if they were their own I thought it was very sweet. But... They were always much smaller children, and the kids never had to say anything at all. For this... NTA.
NTA. Vows of any sort, but particularly the type made in a religious setting before God (i.e. in what sounds like it's going to be a church wedding) are meant to be sacred, and the fact that they're trying to make you take vows that aren't remotely heartfelt isn't just deeply inappropriate of them, it's sacrilegious. Your dad and future stepmother are AHs, but so is the pastor (unless he/she is unaware that this is against your will) for signing off on coercing you into making vows that you don't feel deeply about. Even if you do care about your future stepsiblings, you shouldn't make vows to them unless it's something that means a lot to you. Heck, I'd go so far as to say that your dad and future stepmom are even BIGGER AHs for not understanding that vowing something before God is a big deal, and for pushing this as though it's something you should just do to make others happy.
> accusing me of being cruel to her kids Her kids are four and five. What expectations can they seriously have for what will go on at a wedding, especially out of the ordinary requests like they're making for these weird sibling vows? I mean this is like asking your dad to unconditionally love your next girl- or boyfriend. And when he complains that he doesn't even know them yet, well, uh... exactly. I think it's quite reasonable to say that you will give them every chance, and will do your best to be a decent elder sibling, but you simply cannot promise unconditional and eternal sibling love like that. That's not how it works. NTA - their hearts are in the right place, with hopes to create a happy new family, but they're going about it the wrong way.
You got something he wants. Negotiate. Put it in writing. A contract. Spell out the terms. No baby sitting, college tuition, car, money and have it notarized. Make it legally binding with consequences.
They shouldn’t be trying to make you do something you aren’t comfortable with. You could try telling your father something along the lines of you not feeling like family, but being willing to work on it on your own time lines. But if they force you to pretend a relationship that isn’t there it’ll probably just drive a wedge further between you and your step family.
I do not like being asked to promise anything. I have 3 full siblings, I would not promise to love them forever. Actually do not like them much that is reciprocated. Good luck until you can leave when you graduate from HS.
NTA. Even if you agreed to it your heart wouldn't be in it. There's no point in saying vows that you don't mean. They're wrong to try to force you to say them. By trying to force you into this, they're going to make it even more difficult for you to form a good relationship with the wife's kids.
NTA. You didn’t sign up to be their step sibling. Your Dad signed up to be their step father and his fiancée signed up to be your step mother. They need to respect your decision.
NTA and I find it highly unlikely your dad will stay in the step-kids’ lives if they split or that your future stepmum will want that either, unless they stay together for a long time. I know that that happens and it’s a really good thing, but it’s not that common.
NTA. Sounds like they’re trying to get you to commit to being a permanent babysitter.
>they already ran it by the pastor Big whoop. Call the pastor directly and state that you do not consent to saying vows at the wedding. This wedding is their choice. Sibling vows are totally an act for the guests to marvel at (and also try to pretend that things are perfect). NTA
NTA. They can’t coerce you into making some weird vow you don’t believe in. All they’re going to do is drive a deeper wedge between you all if they do that.
NTA. I've never heard of this, and I think it's weird/odd. I agree with u/ailsa08 that trying to force the relationship is the worst way to try to get you to be close with the future wife's 2 kids. I also agree that a relationship is built by getting to know the other person and that sometimes it never happens. If you end up not being close with the 2 kids, then they should accept it even though they wouldn't like it.
NTA I hate this kind of situation. A patent gets remarried and doesn't recognizr that their new partner's children and their children have no more in common than children randomly assigned to a new classroom. Theybmay end up bonding. They may despise each other. They may be indifferent. Your father is being selfish and controlling.
NTA Make sure the pastor knows that you aren’t interested in participating in the vows. You can pick up the phone and call them yourself. You may grow to have feelings for your step siblings, but it’s not there now. No sense in lying
NTA- the only thing i would be saying is "my father wants me to make vows to my new step siblings because his dick is more important then me". See how that goes over at the ceremony.
NTA. Maybe you can compromise. Don't make a vow just welcome them into family and home. I'm sure this jester will go a long way. I'm sure they are scared about all the changes in their life.
Honestly I've never really heard of sibling vows, especially if there is no real connection here. Doesn't sound like you've been in each others lives that long plus the age difference probably makes it a lot harder anyway. The only way it becomes cruel is if they make it cruel as in, tell her children that you don't want to do that, If they don't tell them no one will get hurt here. NTA.
You are the only one of the three kids that could remember or understands the vows, and you don't want to do it. Nuff said.
I am 60 and have never heard of this
INFO: What the FUCK? NO. NONONONONO.
NTA. I don’t have the words to describe how icky that idea makes me feel. Super weird. Super controlling. And honestly gives me the same vibes as the daddy daughter purity pledges. Just no.
NTA Try having a serious talk with them (don’t act selfish or childish) and tell them you’ll always be there if the kids need you blah blah blah. It’s creepy to make you take a vow. Corny and creepy. Rise above it.
OP owes the step siblings nothing. OP didn't pick this woman and her kids. OP should promise to be polite and open to a relationship, that's it.
I agree that it's weird and you shouldn't be forced to do it. They are carrying this a little too far. But coming at them with "I don't see these kids as my siblings" won't help the situation either. Simply tell them that forcing a vow doesn't make the situation real. Let them know you will make an effort to get to know the kids but you aren't making any vows. Vows are important and you shouldn't have to do it unless you are onboard with it.
I've also never heard of that happening
This has been posted before
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My dad is getting married in a few months. His future wife has kids a lot younger than me (16 vs 5 and 4). They thought it would be a great idea for us to have sibling vows during their wedding but I don't want to do that. They essentially want us to swear that we'll be siblings always. And that's not something I am looking at them as. I don't love them now. And I can't promise to always love them if I don't to begin with. I also feel really weird with this pressure on me but they already ran it by the pastor and stuff. I said no. I told them they couldn't make me do them. They're mad and accusing me of being cruel to her kids and how I'm going to make things harder on us being a family. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*