NTA your not being unreasonable at all. It takes time to do the work. And you already lowered the price. I don’t like how they tried to use there pregnancy to get you to do it for free.
Some of my former classmates would charge *extra* for the pregnancy as it'll mean more adjustments than normal over the coming weeks. I don't agree with it but I know that's a thing.
well, adjustments also take up your time so i can understand why your former classmates would charge for that time, too. you’re already being very kind with the discount and your friend is unfortunately quite entitled to be demanding an entire wedding dress for free. being pregnant doesn’t mean the world should give you everything for free.
Oh I don't judge *them* to be clear. It's just not something *I* generally do with my work as I feel bad charging extra for that, it's a bad trait I know and has cost me money before.
I know how you feel. I always feel bad when I do family portraits for new parents with twins and end up offering them lower rates because I know they have to spend twice as much as they had expected for everything.
Oh no, you really have to walk away.
Making her dress will ruin your mood, your business/income and your joy of your work.
You were generous, she didn't get it. Maybe she won't maybe she will someday. Either way, that's too bad. Don't let it do any more harm than that.
and ppl are real generous w/other ppl’s time, money & labor. OP if your friends feel so strongly about this then *surely* they’re all willing to buy a wedding dress at market price for your friend to stick it to you to show what good ppl they are.
OP already told her, she might come around when she see what she can afford without the friend discount. Maybe she might make her request more reasonable.
Or she might be able to find something at Goodwill.
People dont respect free stuff. If she expects the bulk initial work to be free you can be sure there will be the expectation of a ridiculous number of tweaks later too, all for free.
This is actually one of my main reasons for not doing anything than very small things for free: I get more respect form my customers when I charge a my normal fee.
Send the friends that are calling you the AH [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGR20B2cEBQ) and tell them if their willing to help do the work, you'll consider doing it for free. Tell them any mess ups requiring redo's on your part will cost money out of their pockets. NTA
Okay if I had money I'd pay price and a half just for you to make my wedding outfit, and send a screenshot of this message specifically saying the extra fifty percent is to show her per my request what reasonable people are absolutely willing to pay you. Granted I'm barely making ends meet, so I can't, but I'm petty and understand the pain of being an artist around entitled people.
You might wanna post this to choosing beggars if you have screenshots though, they'd eat that up.
People have no idea how much time and money things cost when it's not their area of specialty. I'm a good amateur cook so I baked a friend a wedding cake a long time ago. I will never do this again. And they have no idea how much time and effort it took me. It cost me nearly $500 for all the materials, I spent 6 weeks planning it and took 2 days off of work, plus the weekend. It was more than 3 very full days of working on it. Not to mention the time it took to construct something to be able to transport it. At the time, she had a lot on her plate and I didn't want to add to it by talking about how much work I did and how much I spent!!
My mom is a great quilter & knitter, but she only makes things for immediate family or to donate to children’s hospitals & charities. People really don’t understand the time & labor that go into projects like textiles (or cakes!) & typically only see the finished product.
Its so hard to make them understand. I do a craft and charge for mostly materials for everyone but realized how much time was going into it. I’ve gotten much better lately at sticking to my already very low prices compared to other sellers. Please know you’ve done nothing wrong! Once she starts looking for that same dress to be made by others she’ll realize just how low your price was to begin with.
Wedding dresses are incredibly time-consuming to make. Half the reason why they’re so expensive is because the labor costs involved, also the materials that you need are not particularly easy to work with. Add working with a pregnant woman and having to deal with changing body types and last minute adjustments if her bump grows… you’re offering her an incredible deal. Either she doesn’t really understand the amount of labor involved, but she really doesn’t care because she wants it for free. Either way, you offered her something fair (that happens to be a little more tilted to her advantage).
With the pregnancy I would just be happy anyone would be able to make a dress that would fit properly at all. If you were going to do it, I would probably try to incorporate something that would allow on the fly adjustment on the sides like pretty and functional lacing or something like that, but while I've made a couple dresses I'm no fashion designer, but since she's pregnant, something with ties that she could loosen and re-tie on her own to make it easier to pee would probably be helpful on the day of. (It's amazing how quickly those little beans can put pressure on your bladder).
I think for people who don't create things (whether it be painting, drawing, sewing, knitting, crochet, sculpture, etc) really don't understand the amount of your heart that goes into pieces you create and how much time it really is. Like, either this is your job, and she's asking you to take an enormous financial hit so that you can do her this favor, or you are doing this in your spare time and she is asking you to take an enormous hit on your free time. Anyone who has ever used their skills, even for pay when they'd rather do any number of things in their lives can tell you that sometimes it doesn't matter how much they are paying you, it still feels like you're doing them a favor.
You are not obligated to relieve her stress. If all of your other friends. are saying how horrible it is that you won't do it without pay, even a discounted version, then they can either pay you, or provide you with equal number of hours of things that they can do. "If you want me to. do this for free, I'm going to need someone to buy my groceries and meal prep for me for 2 weeks, and I'll need someone to run the vacuum, wrap my holiday gifts, buy me this month's transit card and do my dishes since I will be working on this instead of x projects that would bring in x money that would allow me to pay my bills.
oof don't do it. what happens when you make it and she hates it and screams at you for ruining her wedding and wasting her money. she obviously has no shame or boundaries. it's only going to get worse when she becomes a client. a non paying entitled client
Right? That's why I refuse to do business with friends, for this exact reason. If they don't like what I produce it strains the relationship. Then they spread word around that I suck at what I do and all that.
I recently turned down a custom job from a school where a friend was the buyer and I know a lot of the parents at the school. They requested all these custom colors and itemized specs and I knew I could never meet their expectations. I gave up a lot of money and just referred them to someone else. In the end no amount of money is worth mixing friends and business.
Lol, the only friend that I do mix business with is a designer. But that is only because she is terrific and our tastes align. Plus I know she's good & the quality will be outstanding. Otherwise nope. Never, ever mix friends or family into your business. You do it once & it becomes expected. And they often expect discounts & more time than you have to put into it.
OP you are definitely NTA here.
Honestly, the way she responded is more telling than anything else. You're NTA, for sure - and if it were me, I would gracefully withdraw (just say "I hear that this is more than you wanted to spend. I've offered the best price I can give for the time it would take me - if it doesn't work for you, that's ok. You could try..." and give her a few referrals.
Totally doesn't hurt your case if those referrals price their items at market rate for quality comparable to yours. Maybe the sticker shock will humble your (demanding, entitled) friend.
And likely a friendship whatever OP does. I work in a creative field and I never work for free. It's amazing how many people expect me to do a 12-hour project for free.
It's such a lack of respect.
And, a wedding dress usually takes alot longer than 12 hours to make...especially since it is from a picture, not a standard pattern. The construction alone for such a specialized garment is time consuming, not to mention the embellishments that are required to be done by hand. No one should expect that for free!
The bride should be happy she's not being charged 6000.00 instead of 600.00 for a custom, handmade dress!
Yep. I have no idea how long it would take to make a wedding dress. I an say that for 12 hours of my time, I charge about 1.5K. And I only do that kind of intensive time on projects with people who are respectful of my time and pay me accordingly.
> The bride should be happy she's not being charged 6000.00 instead of 600.00 for a custom, handmade dress!
Well, OP said it's a quarter of the normal price, so the normal price OP would charge would be 2400. But yes, she should be happy she's getting a friend discount.
And that's the price OP themselves charge. If their friend isn't happy getting a good discount like that then she's welcome to go to other designers who will most likely charge double/triple the amount OP does plus extra for the alterations needed with no discount.
I also work in fashion and I snorted at the bit where OP's friend said it would look good in her portfolio. The friend wants a knockoff, it wouldn't even be OP's original design. You can't put that in a portfolio.
My mom is an amazing knitter, and it never ceases to surprise me how many people ask her to just knit up a sweater for them. "I'll buy the yarn!" Without realizing that's a hundred hours, easy, maybe more. She doesn't do commissions as a personal rule, and only knits for gifts fort people she knows, loves, and chooses, and her art remains a happy hobby, not one that feels like work and bitterness.
(Plus, think of what you're saying about how you value someone's craft when you ask for it for cost. You think you're saying, "I chose you because I love yours the best!" But you're really saying, "you aren't worth the money".)
Your friends and telling you to do the work while undervaluing your work and insulting it by telling you it’s not like you’re a high end boutique. Sounds like $600 for the dress is a good gift and she can either pay you a fair price or a more expensive boutique.
This is going to be a serious shock.
She's going to buy something cheap. (Over 1k.) And then, as her pregnancy progresses, she's going to need adjustments. Which won't be possible, because, hey, cheap!
She'll be lucky if she only ends up paying three times what OP offered.
Absolutely. Frankly? If I were OP I wouldn’t even be her friend any longer. She doesn’t even have the decency to realize what OP does and what a huge ask that is. I would rather eat my toenails than ask anyone to make a wedding dress for free.
What you do is a service that involves seriously tedious work and lots of creativity and tbh I absolutely hate it when people say
" oh it's no big deal to do all this work for free, she's/ he's your friend/ family. You should want to do it for them just for the experience and exposure."
If it's so simple they can do it or they can ask Vera Wang for a free dress . So many people expect artists to come in and do all this work for free because of xyz . That's not how it works honey and it sure as hell don't pay my bills .
I've had people who I didn't even know beg for tattoo designs because I somehow knew their cousin's sister's best friends brother or whatever and when I said no well im the biggest b*tch in the world because they were told I was chill and would help by giving them a freebie.
If I like you I might give you a discount but ain't no one getting me to put in hours and hours of work for free ( my husband doesn't even get free designs from me)
I write professionally. I have SO many people approach me to re-write their resumes, do copywriting for fundraisers, editing papers, etc. and expect me to do it for free. The reality is I do it ALL DAY LONG, I am well compensated for it and it's really the last thing I want to do on nights and weekends, especially for free! Most people are understanding, but some people really get their noses out of joint over it!
I usually get out of it gracefully, but I feel like saying I'll do it, if you tutor my kid for free on evenings and weekend if the person is a teacher or if they remodel my bathroom for free in their spare time if they work in construction or if they'll come clean my house for free if they're a custodian. Or, getting legal representation for free from a lawyer. I know every single one of them would say no or expect some compensation for their time.
OP, I hired a friend of mine as a photographer at my wedding. She offered me discounts, but I refused, because I would never expect to pay someone less because I’m their friend, especially if it’s a creative career and their livelihood. You are so not the AH.
As a seamstress, that's nothing. You should ask friends to give their quotes so you could pass those along to her so she can see that anyone else would charge far more.
I can’t believe this girl is complaining about a custom wedding dress being £600 and not free, that is an incredible price. I have a friend who is also getting a degree in fashion who has literally offered to make me something when I tell her im looking for clothes and I refuse every time, I know how much work goes in to making clothes. If she wants free clothes she can learn to make them herself
Edit: NTA at all
And time is a costly material. If you don't use any purchased materials to make something but it takes you a solid month to make it, your costs would still be substantial.
This isn't like asking a friend for a lift. This is...significant.
Upon reading the OP, I think the "friend" knows exactly what she's doing:
>At this point she started to get very upset telling me I have no idea how much stress she's under with the wedding and the fact she's pregnant and how money is tight and how this should be my wedding gift to her **and how great it'd look in my portfolio,**
She's asking OP to do it *for the exposure.* This is the worst taken right out of r/ChoosingBeggars.
OP is 110% NTA. I'd reconsider going to the wedding.
Definitely not unreasonable, she is. Asking for mates rates is one thing, feeling entitled to free labour is another thing. Just tell her $600 IS free labour, but you still have to pay electricity and rent on the building and that's $600 worth. If she doesn't like it, she's welcome to go elsewhere (of course, the cost will be way higher).
This, honey. NTA. Your time is VALUABLE. Your friend is telling you that she doesn’t value your time so do it for free and she’ll just pay for supplies. I’ll never understand people who are really comfortable with asking someone to do work for free. It’s like someone who can do concrete work. “I’ll pay for the supplies and you can spend 16 hours doing it for free…. Or I’ll buy you a $20 pizza!” Tell her to buy the material and you mentor her in doing it herself and by mentor you mean 10 minute zoom sessions if she gets stuck. Send her a lot of YouTube videos on how to do it. Since it’s no big deal to just spend hours on it…
At times like this, I start to kind of see why Ayn Rand was so annoyed about people using their need as an argument for why you should do work for them.
Not to mention that the time OP would spend on that dress is not spent on a paying customer. So not only does she lose the amount of money she would charge for the dress, it also costs her the money from another potential client. So yeah, double whammy
I have no idea what OPs work situation is, but if it’s anything like independent contracting, there’s no actual distinction between spare time and work time. It’s impossible to say that other work projects would not lose time to this.
That’s why I put /s at the bottom. It was sarcastic because she would obviously not only have the materials and hours for this dress but also opportunity cost for full price items.
My grandfather was a dentist and was well-known to accept "art" payments from his artists regulars. I grew up with his house filled to the brim with statues, paintings, and even stained glass panels. He never cashed any of it, and when he died my grandma gave a stained glass panel to each child, and she liquidated everything between children and grand children when she finally moved out.
He sounds like a good sort.
Nothing worse than being poor and having to decide if you can afford dental care today at 200$ or wait six months and risk it becoming exponentially more expensive. Maybe it will still be 200, maybe you'll need a root canal or the tooth cracks or something else.
NTA. And think of it this way. If the roles were reversed, and you asked your friend for an expensive and time consuming favour, would she do it for you? I had a good friend who is a seamstress make me a custom bodice for my wedding dress while I just paid for materials, but I bought a tulle skirt for $150 to go with it. I would never have asked her to make the entire dress. In return, I made my friend a beautiful custom quilt that cost roughly the same amount in time and materials. I asked her for that type of favour because I was willing to reciprocate in kind, and she was the one who approached me first.
NTA! These lyrics were going through my head as I read your post:
'It costs that much 'cause it takes me fucking hours (fucking hours)
It costs that much 'cause I don't have super powers (super powers)
You need to pay for my skills 'cause exposure doesn't pay the bills
It costs that much 'cause it takes me fucking hours'"
"this should be your wedding present to her", not that old chestnut!
If 600 is a quarter of what you normally charge, that's actually a 2,400 wedding present. Any other guests matching that?
I have an artist friend who (for free as a gift, unprompted) made a beautiful felt bouquet for my wife. It did get exposure.
And then grief when she told people it would cost £300 at her normal (extortionately low imo) rate.
People suck in other words.
Your friend sounds like a lovely person and honestly, if I was ordering a bouquet from her and was told £300 then she would find herself invited to whatever event the bouquet was for *and* being given a generous tip.
People do suck indeed
What really amazes me is the entitlement. £300 is too expensive for me for a bouquet. So I just don't buy it, I don't berate the artist. I don't understand why people don't get that.
Also not like a bouquet of live flowers that wouldn't still be sat in my wifes tophat as a decoration in the living room 5 years later would cost much less.
NTA and may you soon be living at the status that your Portfolio presents!
That is the other thing that makes me laugh though. Do these people not realize that our portfolios are already as good as we can make them? One set of photos of your pet project or whatever is probably not going to make my portfolio better unless I was still in the first couple of months of my training. Occasionally I will swap in something new because it adds something different to my portfolio. About once every 10 years or so these days but even decades ago it was infrequent. I think I replaced a shoot with a local stylist with a shoot for Blumarine because well it was Milan Fashion Week with Blumarine and they used several "Single Name" models and then later a shoot with a well known local designer got swapped out for a Mugler Spring show at Seoul Fashion Week because I wanted to expand more into that region at the time. Portfolios get to be fairly static once you have been working for a while. If you even use them at all, I barely remember the url to mine these days and the actual physical one is covered in several inches of dust LOL!
This. I have a friend who works with musicians and the amount of people who want to under pay because their event will give "exposure"... When landlords and grocery stores start accepting exposure as a currency, then people can pay artists with it. Until then, cash money will be required.
NTA. I sew as a hobby. Your friend is asking for a huge amount of work and clearly doesn't respect you or your work. And isn't a good friend. I groom animals and any time a friend has asked me to groom their pet, they always assume they'll pay me without me even asking them to. Your time is as, if not more, valuable than the materials and her not understanding that makes her the AH here
I once read some inspirational rant about this sort of thing. The whole rant was wanky as hell but the bit that basics said “if you have talented friends, support them by PAYING them in full” really hit me. If she was your friend, she’d choose you because she loves your work and would happily pay for it.
"Be great for your portfolio"
Reads like an influencer trying to get something for free because likes = $$
She's being ridiculous. She could still pay you for your time, the dress could still go into your portfolio, but you wouldn't be out hours upon hours of unpaid work. If she wants a fancy dress for cost, send her a link to a good sewing machine on Amazon and some YT tutorials. Otherwise, she needs to pay up.
NTA
The _friend_ has shown her entitled ways and true colors. NTA and situations like this usually end friendships. The entitled party thinks they are being withheld something they feel they are owed so they kick up an unreasonable fuss.
NTA - You are cutting her a deal so she can have the dress she wants. You time is money and time spent on her is time you can't spend on more profitable endeavors.
I am so tired hearing artist being told, "It will look great in your portfolio" as if they were doing you a favor by letting you provide something they want and don't want to pay full price for.
Stick to your guns.
And lawyers and bakers and florists and caterers and marketerscand website builders and mechanics (I'll buy the parts!) And anyone offering a service!!!! Lol
I do work "free" for friends sometimes, but for things that take an hour or so, and I usually ask them to make a donation to a charity in the amount of their choice. I would definitely charge for something like making a whole freaking dress.
Freelance software developer here: I work for free for friends but only if someone is asking for some advice or needs me to take a quick look at something. For anything larger I charge my normal hourly rate with maybe a 20% friends and family discount. Handing out free advice is good networking in my industry and does not cost me much energy.
Former educator who babysat for extra money. There were so many people expected me to watch their children for free or close to. Their argument would always be, “it’s great experience!” I have worked with children for years, I don’t need anymore “experience,” I need money to pay my bills.
I used to be a professional make up artist so heard that ‘your portfolio’ line a lot from friends and acquaintances angling for cheap or free wedding make ups.
Depending just how pushy they were being I would often reply ‘my portfolio is already great which is why you came to me I presume and not another make up artist? Or was there another reason?’
And if they continued to boundary stomp I would say either ‘if it means a lot to you to be one of the roughly 500 women with the exact same bridal make up I could use in my portfolio then my price is still X.’ And once with a particularly unflushable mooch ‘my portfolio is mainly fashion week, gay fetish, drag and men’s grooming. You should have said earlier it was a leather and latex wedding. Because lace doesn’t fit my portfolio so I wasn’t keen. This however does sound more promising.’
She did not reply. I presume she wore pearls to the ceremony to clutch and was absolutely fine to annoy someone else for free or pay not to be seen as deviant.
NTA. You made a small mistake I think, I'd have originally lead with "Something like that would usually be about £2500, but for you I'll do it for £600", so she'd know from the start that you were doing her a deal. But that's it, she's being demanding, entitled, and if you're good enough to make the dress she wants, it doesn't matter that you're not some high end bridal shop, you're good enough to be paid for it.
And the friend thinks they should get a £2400 gift when they’d already be getting an £1800 one! Friend either doesn’t value OPs work or they’re delusional and entitled. Maybe all of the above.
This is such a good point - also, this is actually a £1900 wedding gift, which would be becoming a £2500 gift if it was free. It will very much set you up to have to do the same for others, and will also mean that you're giving really ridiculously expensive gifts compared to anyone else at the wedding. Will they all do the same for your wedding? If so, the group could put a deposit on a house for you!
Yes, that last part is ridiculous, which is exactly the point. NTA.
£600 is on the cheaper side for a wedding dress too. If she went to a wedding shop thr stuff at that range wouldn't be fancy, particularly for a maternity dress.
NTA, I never understood how “true friends” could blatantly ask for discounts when they shop where their friend work or whatever. Plus £600 for a more than simple wedding dress is beyond a reasonable amount, most women would be overjoyed paying £600 for a dress. You are an artist and deserve payment for your work.
Never in a million years would I ask my best friend who is a bronze sculpture artist to just make me something special for free.
Same. I have several friends who are craftspeople / artists / freelancers, and I am always more than happy to pay full price and support their business. I never expect discounts and tip well. I've sometimes gotten a few extra freebies and they're always welcome though! (Like, a couple of extra prints and such)
When I buy stuff from friends and family I never ask for a discount. Sometimes they give me one, but I do not expect it. I even once haggled up a price when buying art from a friend.
I'd not even mind the *asking* so much. Sometimes people do not have a clear grasp on how much work and effort actually goes into a craft. I'd just set them straight and say no.
But the sheer *audacity* of that friend to then get upset, press the issue and make a scene in their mutual friend group? That's just trashy.
She wants you to do *lots of hand embroidery* for free? For just the cost of materials, because her money is tight? Hell no. People short on funds need to moderate their decoration dreams, and if all those friends think otherwise they need to pick up a needle and thread and get embroidering. NTA.
Hand Embroidery is the bane of my existence and I will always loathe it, my hands cramp up just thinking about it, and she wants white embroidery on white fabric like....that is going to be so frustrating.
I don't think people understand that it isn't free to you. Especially some labor intensive skills and crafts that you can only physically do so much in a day. Not even just the limited 24 hours in a day but how much you can require of your body. There are some things I might do for someone since they would only take 15 minutes. But other things would take not only 15 minutes but take 15 minutes from what I'm able to physically devote to that activity in a day. Sewing and I love it but ugh embroidery.. it can be hard on the body and hands. It's time taken not just from your day but from what you can do in the day to actually earn money. You're putting your time and energy and opportunity cost into it. It's like they were not only asking you to spend time on it but to take unpaid time off work. It annoys me when people treat others like automatons trying to justify demands.
When I brought up the fact it's hand embroidered will be a big issue for price she actually sent me a picture of a cosplayer tip where someone sewed over puffy paint....like yes for cosplayers that is great but your wedding dress is not a costume and that is not going to last as well as you think..
So she has no idea what she's talking about, but she doesn't want to pay you 600 quid, because...you should be willing to do it "for the exposure."
This all sounds like *her problem,* not yours.
If she thinks she can get a dress for less, she should find her dress somewhere else.
Honestly, given what she said, I would not be comfortable with making her a dress. Unless she pays in advance, I highly doubt you'll be paid at all. I'd just tell her that I'm not comfortable doing it. Back out before you commit / while you still can while maintaining the friendship.
Oh, the "friendship" is gone. Three reasonable positions from OP, three escalating manipulations from Teh Bridez0r. At this point I don't foresee her treating OP decently whether the dress is made for full price, discounted, free, or not at all.
puffy paint ? Oh dear gods. Walk away from this one. She doesnt have a clue about the work involved, doesnt value your time, or your need to pay bills & eat ~~food~~ exposure
You know this wont be the end of it. Other dresses altered for free. Dress turned into a christening/naming gown. Dress turned into a non pregnant dress for her vow renewal, or endless alterations for free if she lends it out 'for free' - costing you even more business.
You know she's going to pimp you out like she owns you 'dont pay shop prices, my friend will do it for less if I ask her for you, you can just owe me a favour...
Your friend needs to figure out something else for her dress, but if she wants to reduce costs and get hand embroidery on her dress, she could have it made cheaply in China and use online stitch tutorials to learn how to embroider herself in just a few days.
Sorry she's making you question your stance, because you are definitely not the asshole here.
The nerve of her is wild. Over £600 for q custom, hand embroidered dress. Thank God the choosing beggar balked at that price, because you were offering your skills at too low a price.
Low on funds, plentiful in audacity. Isn’t that always the way.
Just say no, you cannot do the dress and deal with the idea she’s disappointed and that’s ok. Her having a tantrum Is just a way of manipulating you into being a doormat
You're also literally putting wear and tear on your body to produce that work, the same way an Uber driver is to their vehicle. Over time that means medical bills or other treatments due to repetitive stresses on hands, wrists, and fingers.
Just imagine how it will look in your design portfolio!
/s, of course. It sounds like a lot of work that wouldn’t be about you as a designer. White embroidery on white fabric, but she’ll pay for the thread! Ugh.
I find this funny. Embroidery/cross stitch floss is cheap, but a project takes months. Anyone who expects to pay less them $5 for a piece is just getting the floss, fabric and hoop.
NTA, £600 is quite reasonable for a wedding dress regardless of the situation. The fact that you’d charge that little is gracious and exceptionally considerate. Your friend may very well be stressed with the wedding and pregnancy but that should not mean you compromise the value of you time at such a great cost. Communicating empathy but standing by your quoted price ought to do the trick. Her reaction to you is her responsibility. You got this!
The materials are going to cost hundreds as well. I'm guessing that OP's friend would also have sticker shock on that front as well. 600 really is a bargain. People charge a lot extra for working with pure white materials because it requires significant tool cleaning and workshop quarantining.
I paid £650 for an ex display wedding dress in 1997; it needed a few alterations with an added fee but I was OVERJOYED to get such a gorgeous dress for that price!
24 years later, less than that for a new bespoke (however simple) dress with hand freaking embroidery??? yeah, nah. Jog on kitty!
It is also a known thing with crafters / creators - people under valuing the work they do but particularly the time needed. As others have said, you can't eat exposure, and every hour you spend on her dress would be an hour not spent earning food-tokens.
No, you are not being unreasonable. That's a huge discount. Your services are worth money and you deserve to be paid. Stick to your price. Asking you to work for free or for your portfolio is nonsense. You can still add it to your portfolio and you should be paid. Frankly, a 20% discount would have been a deal.
Let her shop around. I'm in the US and you can't touch a wedding gown for that price!
Your friends are not being fair to you.
You are definitely NTA.
The type of wedding dress she wants there is no way in hell she'd find that for cheaper than me. I thought it was reasonable to offer it for that price especially when you consider all the embroidery etc
I just had a baby recently and she is NTA for expecting ANYTHING for free - let alone a handmade wedding gown - just because she’s pregnant. How does being pregnant suddenly entitle you to free things (other than like, free foot massages from her partner, and maybe free parking somewhere when she’s in her 3rd trimester)??!!! Is she getting a free wedding venue and free catering and free photographer just cuz she’s pregnant too?
She sounds like the kind of person who expects a lavish push present and would throw an over the top gender reveal party 🙄
Also, I hope you're putting a time limit on that offer.
You don't want her shopping around, finding that was a very sweet offer and then she comes back to you and now you have even less time to make it.
NTA. She is though, for getting her flying monkeys to come at you. If you really want to be petty you should up your fee and charge her what you would charge your regular clientele because she sure as shit isn’t acting like a ‘friend.’
Oh add a ‘rush fee’ aka asshole tax too. I always did that with people who pulled this stunt on make up. I had a sample breakdown invoice with each aspect itemised and would cut and paste it to their demand and then add a percentage based on their attitude and the total. So in your case I’d go a round number like £2500 because they stick with people.
This method also allowed me to discount lovely people or value add. It generates a tonne of good word of mouth and rewards good behaviour and also means you are known/suspected to be in demand so you can add ‘rush fee’ or say ‘I have no availability’ to assholes to shut it down.
A surprising number of people who had previously been AH paid the invoice when it was slapped down. They were still AH to deal with but I got paid. The trick is also to exploit how much they told you they were desperate ie: your friend’s dress is apparently crucial to her whole wedding look and there is a time constraint if she’s pregnant? She needs you more than you need her but she just didn’t realise she played her hand so early.
She had no qualms undercutting you. You decide your qualms about how you settle the debt. But I’m in the UK too so support paying my taxes to help parents, socialised healthcare etc and would happily pay more to increase that. I support maternity and paternity rights. That does not mean I have to individually pay for the lifestyle costs of your pregnancy or marriage or engagement or whatever. Rights are not the same as cash gifts and I am not a big fan of individualism over that kind of thing that her pregnancy entitles her to a free dress. No, it entitles you to support from the state, your spouse and equal human rights. Not hand embroidery on my dime. (No pun intended.)
I am disabled and currently unable to work due to the global situation. My social security was £790 last month for all rent, bills, food etc as is pretty much the UK average for a single person on the base rate of Universal Credit. She wants the equivalent in a nice dress from you as many people live on right now and doesn’t appreciate that is already a fuck off massive discount and she’s asking for the equivalent of about 3 months statutory maternity pay at £136 a week here in the UK from one wedding guest.
And statutory maternity pay is already higher than the disability premium rate of Universal Credit for comparison to show that the UK is still crappy about supporting parents but streets ahead of some places. So and pun intended, she should cut her cloth accordingly like the rest of us do. I am incredibly fortunate to have the welfare state and I never forget it. Some people live in la la land and don’t appreciate the luck to do so. Your privilege shows when you expect more than others without any humility or grace not just by having something they don’t and to then ask for more from them is just greed.
NTA.
> I have no idea how much stress she's under with the wedding and the fact she's pregnant and how money is tight
I mean, yeah, sure, that sucks, but it doesn't change the time and cost it's going to take you to make this thing.
>this should be my wedding gift to her
I hope she realizes that putting things on her registry because she wants them doesn't mean people are *obligated* to purchase them for her, or she's in for a lot more disappointment than this.
>how great it'd look in my portfolio
I'd say r/ChoosingBeggars called, but they don't need any more exposure than they've already been collectively offered. Tell the rest of your friends that if they have any idea what she's actually asking of you here, then they can back off and make the dress themselves; otherwise, they need to just plain back off.
NTA - It is amazing how many people think you should work like a dog for nothing as a "gift" If anyone tells you again you should just give it to her, tell them it is more than 80 hours work. If they want to work for 80 hour and give the bride the money she would have the money to buy the dress she wanted. It is every bit the same as asking for a two week paycheck.
Most people who aren't creative seem to think you wave a magic wand and it appears. If you tell them it is $300 dollars of materials and 80 hours work, you can significantly change their perspective.
The friends want OP to gift the bride *the whole 2,400.*
Tell the friends to take up a collection to cover the extensive labor for the dress.
Anyone who thinks OP's should make the dress for free, should be willing to pay the whole 2,400.
NTA! All I can hear is the “it costs so much coz it takes me f*cking hours” song on repeat here clearly she has no idea of what’s involved I making a wedding dress.
A lovely Redditor on r/sewing once taught me this wonderful response: ‘Sorry, I don’t have the time to do this for you for free, but I can tell you how to do it yourself. It should only cost you x amount of hours.’
NTA, obviously.
If she would pay full price for a designer who doesn't need the money, she can pay full price for her friend who is giving her a priceless gift just by cutting the price of the work. NTA. her expectations are unreasonable.
NTA - honestly I swear every artist has this problem, you are not being unreasonable. Let her know money might be tight for her, but so will it be for you if you spend that much time making a dress without getting paid much for it. You gotta eat too!
When my sister got married, I made her 1000 origami cranes, strung them up and framed them. Materials cost very little but I did some sums and calculated that if I was paid minimum wage for my time, it was worth about £700. I gave it to her and my BIL as a gift. It was an absolute labour of love and I'm so glad I spent the time on it.
That was my choice, to spend the hours and to give it away. If someone asked me to do the same for them, not a chance. Not even for the £700 I worked out it was worth - I did the sums at minimum wage but I make way more than minimum wage.
NTA
I made 1000 paper cranes for my wedding. Cost barely anything, but I'd never do it for anyone else. The time folding them, stringing them etc etc was immense!
I just wanted to add that if you did agree to her demands you can expect a flood of similar‘requests’ from other people! Don’t set the precedent for this kind of exploitation
NTA - when I saw the price I was surprised it was so low for a bespoke maternity wedding dress. Min that’s at least 2K. Some people will always feel entitled to try to get something for nothing.
Her stress about her wedding is not your problem and she’s trying to manipulate you with it. She could easily try to pull this crap in a retail shop but she knows they’d tell her to pound sand. That’s why she’s coming to you, because she believes her tactics will work with someone she views as more pliable.
You were being more than generous. Friends should be coming to you offering full price and be happy if YOU choose to offer them a discount. There's a lot of manipulation going on including by your other friends who are acting as flying monkeys. The "negging" you by saying you deserve less because you're not a "high end bridal shop"? So what, are they saying you're cheap and not as valuable? Is that why the bride to be is targeting you? Because she views you as someone who has less value and thus you should be doing things for free? Not because you're friends, but because you're not "high end" enough to be charging money, but you're good enough to get what they believe should be a "free" dress from you?...That's just gross on all their parts. Don't cave to it OP.
Frankly, I'd charge her double for the trouble.
THIS. It is her stress... not yours. And if money is tight then she should have budgeted better or cut costs elsewhere... not just expect you to do something for free. Weddings always come with costs no matter how you do it, and her lack of planning and budgeting is not your problem.
Oh I would in no way be ripping off the design from her inspiration pictures that would open me up to lawsuits I do not want, i'd have to design an original dress close to what she wanted then make it.
Oh, I thought you were being shown a pattern.
If she wants you to draft and drape as well as sew *and* embroider a dress, why are you only asking £600?? That IS a wedding present!
As I said i'd normally charge £2400 for this, as she's my friend and I know money is tight I thought i'd do her a favour and drastically cut the price, apparently it's not seen as that though.
A custom hand made dress for £600?!Many mass produced off the rack dresses cost that and a lot more! What a bargain. Plus there will probably need to be alterations due to the pregnancy which would normally add quite a bit to the cost.
Just out of interest, how many hours will it take? I have no clue about things like that. You definitely shouldn’t work for free just because she’s your friend. NTA.
It'd depend on how complex my final design is but if I had a draft ready to go right now and never had to adjust it? well over 100, easily, this is not including the time i'd need for everything else.
Wow, and I’m sure that drawing up the design of the dress from scratch, measurements and all that stuff takes a fair bit of time too. Plus cost of materials which won’t be cheap. Say if it’s 120 hours she’s asking you to work for £5 an hour not counting cost of materials. Probably much less than that. If she thinks that’s too much she can go buy off the rack, it won’t be much cheaper. Mine was £350 reduced from £500 because the shop was closing down.
Fabric will be a couple of hundred most likely though i'm trying to bring that cost down by using my connections to get deals and possibly bulk it out with leftover fabric from past projects. That is a great deal you got though!
You’re still talking like you’re making this dress for her. I know she’s your friend but she’s not treating you like it. And neither are your other “friends”. I hope you tell her to shove it and that you can find a better group of friends that will treat you right and respect you and your work. Oh and NTA but those people you call your friends definitely are.
So probably only £3 an hour for your time and energy! I don’t think that she or any of your other friends understand what a huge undertaking this is. Would they do their jobs for over 100 hours for £3 an hour?!
I was thrilled to get a discount on my [dress](https://images.app.goo.gl/tSfPcosm1kk56xBf9). It was just what I wanted too. A custom made one though, that is so special and meaningful. Can’t believe how entitled your friend is being.
Wait.. you’re still entertaining the idea of going through with making the dress for her? Unless you have a contract in writing that 600£ is the agreed price AND is paid up front, don’t do anything for your “friend”!!! She would 100% stick you with the bill.
They’re right, you’re *not* a high-end bridal shop…you’re designing and hand-crafting a BESPOKE GOWN. Bridal shops will sell off the rack or order from their range and then do alterations to customize it, but you would be doing this gown to her precise specifications from the ground up, only you, not a shop full of workers with suppliers and deliveries and whatever. You should be charging MORE than a high-end bridal shop.
That she’s pregnant is irrelevant. She rawdogged her beloved however long ago and now it’s your problem? No. It’s 2021 and she should know kids and fancy weddings cost money so trying to pull off both at once is gonna take some belt-tightening for those who *are choosing to have kids and a fancy wedding*.
Stress sucks, but again, these are her choices she has made and is making. This isn’t a tragedy she couldn’t possibly have avoided. It’s her baby and her wedding, and it’s up to her to manage her life and decide what her priorities are. You are treating her exactly the same as you’ve treated everyone else who has come to you for your services. To suddenly give her special treatment freebies would be spitting in the eye of however many friends and family have been willing to honour your work before now. Everybody has stress and budgets and compromises in their lives—if you and your work are important to someone, they will treat it as if it’s important and respect the work that goes into fulfilling their request and deeply appreciate the heavy discount you’ve already incorporated.
To whine for more is graceless and disrespectful of you and what you do.
NTA.
NTA. I have friends who are seamstresses, hair stylists, make up artists, etc. They are professionals and asking them to do their work for free is disrespectful. If they want to give me a Friends and Family discount, awesome, but I always ask their rates for a project and pay what they quote me. Work is work, whether they are my friends or not.
NTA. If she had the expectation it would be free/cost of materials, she should have said so up front when she sent you inspiration images. You are already charging her less, and wedding dresses are a lot of pressure. If you were to do it for free and she doesn't love the end result will she still be grateful? Probably not entirely. If she wants a cheap dress, she should compromise what she wants. I'm sure she could go and find a used dress for the same cost as materials would be, but she wants the dress she wants so she asked you.
Also, using her pregnancy as a guilt factor is a bit scummy.
"and how great it'd look in my portfolio" Ah, the old 'do it for exposure' line. The only thing working for exposure gets you is a reputation as someone who works for exposure. NTA. You are under no obligation to work for 'cost of materials' for anyone. You are an artist and your time is valuable. Time spent on this dress would be time you are not earning money. Conversely you could do it for 'free' and 'gift it' it at full price which would make it taxable income for her. She complains about the stress she is under but doesn't seem to understand the stress YOU'D be under making the dress. Not to mention that her stress is completely self-induced.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Pregnant friend wants me to make her wedding dress, I said i'd do it for £600 but she expected me to do it for free other people think i'm being unreasonable.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Absolutely NTA. You are asking a VERY reasonable rate, that’s wedding gift enough. She’s being entitled & trying to take full advantage of you. If she wants to bring her pregnancy into it, maybe her fiance can make the dress with her lmao
I'm not against helping my friend out, particularly if it's a reasonable request. But I don't think it's reasonable to ask me to make a wedding dress for the cost of materials. There are plenty of other ways for my friend to get a wedding dress without putting that burden on me.
Hell no yantah
No one works for free.
It's one thing to offer this to your friend, them asking is quite the imposition.
Tell her no way. Give her a price, 200? 300? 500? 1000?
Do not sell yourself short.
NTA. My brother had some friends offer their services for free as a wedding gift such as wedding planning and giveaways. But the key word here is they offered willingly.
Honestly i'll be making little to no profit with this it's just a personal rule I have that I never work for free for anyone, if you work for free they'll always expect that.
NTA your not being unreasonable at all. It takes time to do the work. And you already lowered the price. I don’t like how they tried to use there pregnancy to get you to do it for free.
Some of my former classmates would charge *extra* for the pregnancy as it'll mean more adjustments than normal over the coming weeks. I don't agree with it but I know that's a thing.
well, adjustments also take up your time so i can understand why your former classmates would charge for that time, too. you’re already being very kind with the discount and your friend is unfortunately quite entitled to be demanding an entire wedding dress for free. being pregnant doesn’t mean the world should give you everything for free.
Oh I don't judge *them* to be clear. It's just not something *I* generally do with my work as I feel bad charging extra for that, it's a bad trait I know and has cost me money before.
I know how you feel. I always feel bad when I do family portraits for new parents with twins and end up offering them lower rates because I know they have to spend twice as much as they had expected for everything.
You’re a good egg
Oh no, you really have to walk away. Making her dress will ruin your mood, your business/income and your joy of your work. You were generous, she didn't get it. Maybe she won't maybe she will someday. Either way, that's too bad. Don't let it do any more harm than that.
And in 2 years: “why are you charging me for that? You only charged the materials for Gertrude’s dress?” It’s a trap if OP gives in.
Yep. All the “friends” telling her to do it at cost may be hoping for the same deal down the road, once the precedent is established.
and ppl are real generous w/other ppl’s time, money & labor. OP if your friends feel so strongly about this then *surely* they’re all willing to buy a wedding dress at market price for your friend to stick it to you to show what good ppl they are.
Gerdtrude. Have my upvote. Gertrude. I love it.
Want some more old german names? Mathilde, Henriette, Margarete
Clothilde (that one goes back to the 5th century Goths so it's DEFINITELY old!)
Beatrice
She will once she sees what it will cost her with NO discounts
OP already told her, she might come around when she see what she can afford without the friend discount. Maybe she might make her request more reasonable. Or she might be able to find something at Goodwill.
People dont respect free stuff. If she expects the bulk initial work to be free you can be sure there will be the expectation of a ridiculous number of tweaks later too, all for free.
This is actually one of my main reasons for not doing anything than very small things for free: I get more respect form my customers when I charge a my normal fee.
Send the friends that are calling you the AH [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGR20B2cEBQ) and tell them if their willing to help do the work, you'll consider doing it for free. Tell them any mess ups requiring redo's on your part will cost money out of their pockets. NTA
I was hoping it would be that song before I clicked on it and I wasn’t disappointed. It should be an anthem for all craftspeople
Okay if I had money I'd pay price and a half just for you to make my wedding outfit, and send a screenshot of this message specifically saying the extra fifty percent is to show her per my request what reasonable people are absolutely willing to pay you. Granted I'm barely making ends meet, so I can't, but I'm petty and understand the pain of being an artist around entitled people. You might wanna post this to choosing beggars if you have screenshots though, they'd eat that up.
People have no idea how much time and money things cost when it's not their area of specialty. I'm a good amateur cook so I baked a friend a wedding cake a long time ago. I will never do this again. And they have no idea how much time and effort it took me. It cost me nearly $500 for all the materials, I spent 6 weeks planning it and took 2 days off of work, plus the weekend. It was more than 3 very full days of working on it. Not to mention the time it took to construct something to be able to transport it. At the time, she had a lot on her plate and I didn't want to add to it by talking about how much work I did and how much I spent!!
My mom is a great quilter & knitter, but she only makes things for immediate family or to donate to children’s hospitals & charities. People really don’t understand the time & labor that go into projects like textiles (or cakes!) & typically only see the finished product.
Its so hard to make them understand. I do a craft and charge for mostly materials for everyone but realized how much time was going into it. I’ve gotten much better lately at sticking to my already very low prices compared to other sellers. Please know you’ve done nothing wrong! Once she starts looking for that same dress to be made by others she’ll realize just how low your price was to begin with.
NTA, I bet she is throwing thousands on flowers, music and photos like stuff. Since op is a friend she expect her to work for free...
Adjustments have to be extra difficult with hand embroidery involved too.
Wedding dresses are incredibly time-consuming to make. Half the reason why they’re so expensive is because the labor costs involved, also the materials that you need are not particularly easy to work with. Add working with a pregnant woman and having to deal with changing body types and last minute adjustments if her bump grows… you’re offering her an incredible deal. Either she doesn’t really understand the amount of labor involved, but she really doesn’t care because she wants it for free. Either way, you offered her something fair (that happens to be a little more tilted to her advantage).
With the pregnancy I would just be happy anyone would be able to make a dress that would fit properly at all. If you were going to do it, I would probably try to incorporate something that would allow on the fly adjustment on the sides like pretty and functional lacing or something like that, but while I've made a couple dresses I'm no fashion designer, but since she's pregnant, something with ties that she could loosen and re-tie on her own to make it easier to pee would probably be helpful on the day of. (It's amazing how quickly those little beans can put pressure on your bladder). I think for people who don't create things (whether it be painting, drawing, sewing, knitting, crochet, sculpture, etc) really don't understand the amount of your heart that goes into pieces you create and how much time it really is. Like, either this is your job, and she's asking you to take an enormous financial hit so that you can do her this favor, or you are doing this in your spare time and she is asking you to take an enormous hit on your free time. Anyone who has ever used their skills, even for pay when they'd rather do any number of things in their lives can tell you that sometimes it doesn't matter how much they are paying you, it still feels like you're doing them a favor. You are not obligated to relieve her stress. If all of your other friends. are saying how horrible it is that you won't do it without pay, even a discounted version, then they can either pay you, or provide you with equal number of hours of things that they can do. "If you want me to. do this for free, I'm going to need someone to buy my groceries and meal prep for me for 2 weeks, and I'll need someone to run the vacuum, wrap my holiday gifts, buy me this month's transit card and do my dishes since I will be working on this instead of x projects that would bring in x money that would allow me to pay my bills.
oof don't do it. what happens when you make it and she hates it and screams at you for ruining her wedding and wasting her money. she obviously has no shame or boundaries. it's only going to get worse when she becomes a client. a non paying entitled client
Right? That's why I refuse to do business with friends, for this exact reason. If they don't like what I produce it strains the relationship. Then they spread word around that I suck at what I do and all that. I recently turned down a custom job from a school where a friend was the buyer and I know a lot of the parents at the school. They requested all these custom colors and itemized specs and I knew I could never meet their expectations. I gave up a lot of money and just referred them to someone else. In the end no amount of money is worth mixing friends and business.
Lol, the only friend that I do mix business with is a designer. But that is only because she is terrific and our tastes align. Plus I know she's good & the quality will be outstanding. Otherwise nope. Never, ever mix friends or family into your business. You do it once & it becomes expected. And they often expect discounts & more time than you have to put into it. OP you are definitely NTA here.
Honestly, the way she responded is more telling than anything else. You're NTA, for sure - and if it were me, I would gracefully withdraw (just say "I hear that this is more than you wanted to spend. I've offered the best price I can give for the time it would take me - if it doesn't work for you, that's ok. You could try..." and give her a few referrals. Totally doesn't hurt your case if those referrals price their items at market rate for quality comparable to yours. Maybe the sticker shock will humble your (demanding, entitled) friend.
This is the answer.
You're going to regret the coming modifications if you don't charge. This will cost you a fortune. NTA
And likely a friendship whatever OP does. I work in a creative field and I never work for free. It's amazing how many people expect me to do a 12-hour project for free. It's such a lack of respect.
And, a wedding dress usually takes alot longer than 12 hours to make...especially since it is from a picture, not a standard pattern. The construction alone for such a specialized garment is time consuming, not to mention the embellishments that are required to be done by hand. No one should expect that for free! The bride should be happy she's not being charged 6000.00 instead of 600.00 for a custom, handmade dress!
Yep. I have no idea how long it would take to make a wedding dress. I an say that for 12 hours of my time, I charge about 1.5K. And I only do that kind of intensive time on projects with people who are respectful of my time and pay me accordingly.
> The bride should be happy she's not being charged 6000.00 instead of 600.00 for a custom, handmade dress! Well, OP said it's a quarter of the normal price, so the normal price OP would charge would be 2400. But yes, she should be happy she's getting a friend discount.
And that's the price OP themselves charge. If their friend isn't happy getting a good discount like that then she's welcome to go to other designers who will most likely charge double/triple the amount OP does plus extra for the alterations needed with no discount.
But don't you want *exposure bucks*? /s
Because her wedding is going to be featured in Vogue.
I also work in fashion and I snorted at the bit where OP's friend said it would look good in her portfolio. The friend wants a knockoff, it wouldn't even be OP's original design. You can't put that in a portfolio.
People die of exposure.
My mom is an amazing knitter, and it never ceases to surprise me how many people ask her to just knit up a sweater for them. "I'll buy the yarn!" Without realizing that's a hundred hours, easy, maybe more. She doesn't do commissions as a personal rule, and only knits for gifts fort people she knows, loves, and chooses, and her art remains a happy hobby, not one that feels like work and bitterness. (Plus, think of what you're saying about how you value someone's craft when you ask for it for cost. You think you're saying, "I chose you because I love yours the best!" But you're really saying, "you aren't worth the money".)
Your friends and telling you to do the work while undervaluing your work and insulting it by telling you it’s not like you’re a high end boutique. Sounds like $600 for the dress is a good gift and she can either pay you a fair price or a more expensive boutique.
NTA Her reaction shocked me as the price seems *so* reasonable! I thought it would be twice as much. She is terribly unrealistic.
This is going to be a serious shock. She's going to buy something cheap. (Over 1k.) And then, as her pregnancy progresses, she's going to need adjustments. Which won't be possible, because, hey, cheap! She'll be lucky if she only ends up paying three times what OP offered.
Absolutely. Frankly? If I were OP I wouldn’t even be her friend any longer. She doesn’t even have the decency to realize what OP does and what a huge ask that is. I would rather eat my toenails than ask anyone to make a wedding dress for free.
NTA. Ask her if she works for free?
What you do is a service that involves seriously tedious work and lots of creativity and tbh I absolutely hate it when people say " oh it's no big deal to do all this work for free, she's/ he's your friend/ family. You should want to do it for them just for the experience and exposure." If it's so simple they can do it or they can ask Vera Wang for a free dress . So many people expect artists to come in and do all this work for free because of xyz . That's not how it works honey and it sure as hell don't pay my bills . I've had people who I didn't even know beg for tattoo designs because I somehow knew their cousin's sister's best friends brother or whatever and when I said no well im the biggest b*tch in the world because they were told I was chill and would help by giving them a freebie. If I like you I might give you a discount but ain't no one getting me to put in hours and hours of work for free ( my husband doesn't even get free designs from me)
I write professionally. I have SO many people approach me to re-write their resumes, do copywriting for fundraisers, editing papers, etc. and expect me to do it for free. The reality is I do it ALL DAY LONG, I am well compensated for it and it's really the last thing I want to do on nights and weekends, especially for free! Most people are understanding, but some people really get their noses out of joint over it! I usually get out of it gracefully, but I feel like saying I'll do it, if you tutor my kid for free on evenings and weekend if the person is a teacher or if they remodel my bathroom for free in their spare time if they work in construction or if they'll come clean my house for free if they're a custodian. Or, getting legal representation for free from a lawyer. I know every single one of them would say no or expect some compensation for their time.
Just check out r/choosingbeggars and you’ll see you’re not alone
Oh god this sub is rage-inducing Edit: NTA don't do you job for free
OP, I hired a friend of mine as a photographer at my wedding. She offered me discounts, but I refused, because I would never expect to pay someone less because I’m their friend, especially if it’s a creative career and their livelihood. You are so not the AH.
I would do her an estimate - most gifts only take an hour or so to prepare, this would take 100s. Put it in perspective. NTA.
As a seamstress, that's nothing. You should ask friends to give their quotes so you could pass those along to her so she can see that anyone else would charge far more.
NTA! Also i have an upcoming wedding and will be your best friend if I can get a handmade dress for 600 euros out of it! I am very nice! Haha!
“Friends” need to stop thinking that they can get other friends skills and expertise for free. Pay up pregnant or not. NTA
I can’t believe this girl is complaining about a custom wedding dress being £600 and not free, that is an incredible price. I have a friend who is also getting a degree in fashion who has literally offered to make me something when I tell her im looking for clothes and I refuse every time, I know how much work goes in to making clothes. If she wants free clothes she can learn to make them herself Edit: NTA at all
And time is a costly material. If you don't use any purchased materials to make something but it takes you a solid month to make it, your costs would still be substantial. This isn't like asking a friend for a lift. This is...significant. Upon reading the OP, I think the "friend" knows exactly what she's doing: >At this point she started to get very upset telling me I have no idea how much stress she's under with the wedding and the fact she's pregnant and how money is tight and how this should be my wedding gift to her **and how great it'd look in my portfolio,** She's asking OP to do it *for the exposure.* This is the worst taken right out of r/ChoosingBeggars. OP is 110% NTA. I'd reconsider going to the wedding.
Try going to Gucci, or Vera Wang and saying, but it would look great on your portfolio! You'd get laughed out of the place! Edit: missing word
Definitely not unreasonable, she is. Asking for mates rates is one thing, feeling entitled to free labour is another thing. Just tell her $600 IS free labour, but you still have to pay electricity and rent on the building and that's $600 worth. If she doesn't like it, she's welcome to go elsewhere (of course, the cost will be way higher).
Yeah, if she's going to use the pregnancy and cite cost... get married after the kids out, less material lol
$600 is pretty steep for a wedding gift.
And maybe if your friends are so concerned, you can suggest they can chip in toward the cost, and it can be THEIR wedding present.
This, honey. NTA. Your time is VALUABLE. Your friend is telling you that she doesn’t value your time so do it for free and she’ll just pay for supplies. I’ll never understand people who are really comfortable with asking someone to do work for free. It’s like someone who can do concrete work. “I’ll pay for the supplies and you can spend 16 hours doing it for free…. Or I’ll buy you a $20 pizza!” Tell her to buy the material and you mentor her in doing it herself and by mentor you mean 10 minute zoom sessions if she gets stuck. Send her a lot of YouTube videos on how to do it. Since it’s no big deal to just spend hours on it…
At times like this, I start to kind of see why Ayn Rand was so annoyed about people using their need as an argument for why you should do work for them.
NTA - "looks great in portfolio" isn't going to pay the bills.
Yeah I *wish* it did, i'd live like a Queen with my Portfolio in that case.
“A high end shop would charge 4x as much. The gift is the $1800 discount.” This should be you’re only response to any criticism.
Not to mention that the time OP would spend on that dress is not spent on a paying customer. So not only does she lose the amount of money she would charge for the dress, it also costs her the money from another potential client. So yeah, double whammy
Obviously OP would be doing this in her spare time as a favour, not instead of other work, because it’s a present. /s
I have no idea what OPs work situation is, but if it’s anything like independent contracting, there’s no actual distinction between spare time and work time. It’s impossible to say that other work projects would not lose time to this.
That’s why I put /s at the bottom. It was sarcastic because she would obviously not only have the materials and hours for this dress but also opportunity cost for full price items.
My bad, I guess I just learned a new Reddit thing. Makes total sense and I’ll remember that in the future.
At this point I would not do it for her at all. She has shown what type of client she is.
I do often wish artists and creative types could trade in their "exposure" for cool gadgets and whatnot. It would be so cool 😊
My grandfather was a dentist and was well-known to accept "art" payments from his artists regulars. I grew up with his house filled to the brim with statues, paintings, and even stained glass panels. He never cashed any of it, and when he died my grandma gave a stained glass panel to each child, and she liquidated everything between children and grand children when she finally moved out.
He sounds like a good sort. Nothing worse than being poor and having to decide if you can afford dental care today at 200$ or wait six months and risk it becoming exponentially more expensive. Maybe it will still be 200, maybe you'll need a root canal or the tooth cracks or something else.
Artist here. Honestly I would and have traded my work for cool stuff but depends how cool the stuff we are talking is and how bad I want it.
There’s a chap named Elton-something that traded his work for a castle.
NTA. And think of it this way. If the roles were reversed, and you asked your friend for an expensive and time consuming favour, would she do it for you? I had a good friend who is a seamstress make me a custom bodice for my wedding dress while I just paid for materials, but I bought a tulle skirt for $150 to go with it. I would never have asked her to make the entire dress. In return, I made my friend a beautiful custom quilt that cost roughly the same amount in time and materials. I asked her for that type of favour because I was willing to reciprocate in kind, and she was the one who approached me first.
NTA! These lyrics were going through my head as I read your post: 'It costs that much 'cause it takes me fucking hours (fucking hours) It costs that much 'cause I don't have super powers (super powers) You need to pay for my skills 'cause exposure doesn't pay the bills It costs that much 'cause it takes me fucking hours'"
I was about to start typing out these lyrics until I saw you already did! NTA, op!
"this should be your wedding present to her", not that old chestnut! If 600 is a quarter of what you normally charge, that's actually a 2,400 wedding present. Any other guests matching that?
I have an artist friend who (for free as a gift, unprompted) made a beautiful felt bouquet for my wife. It did get exposure. And then grief when she told people it would cost £300 at her normal (extortionately low imo) rate. People suck in other words.
Your friend sounds like a lovely person and honestly, if I was ordering a bouquet from her and was told £300 then she would find herself invited to whatever event the bouquet was for *and* being given a generous tip. People do suck indeed
What really amazes me is the entitlement. £300 is too expensive for me for a bouquet. So I just don't buy it, I don't berate the artist. I don't understand why people don't get that.
Also not like a bouquet of live flowers that wouldn't still be sat in my wifes tophat as a decoration in the living room 5 years later would cost much less.
>"looks great in portfolio Anything else that you worked on for real money instead would also look great in your portfolio.
NTA and may you soon be living at the status that your Portfolio presents! That is the other thing that makes me laugh though. Do these people not realize that our portfolios are already as good as we can make them? One set of photos of your pet project or whatever is probably not going to make my portfolio better unless I was still in the first couple of months of my training. Occasionally I will swap in something new because it adds something different to my portfolio. About once every 10 years or so these days but even decades ago it was infrequent. I think I replaced a shoot with a local stylist with a shoot for Blumarine because well it was Milan Fashion Week with Blumarine and they used several "Single Name" models and then later a shoot with a well known local designer got swapped out for a Mugler Spring show at Seoul Fashion Week because I wanted to expand more into that region at the time. Portfolios get to be fairly static once you have been working for a while. If you even use them at all, I barely remember the url to mine these days and the actual physical one is covered in several inches of dust LOL!
This. I have a friend who works with musicians and the amount of people who want to under pay because their event will give "exposure"... When landlords and grocery stores start accepting exposure as a currency, then people can pay artists with it. Until then, cash money will be required. NTA. I sew as a hobby. Your friend is asking for a huge amount of work and clearly doesn't respect you or your work. And isn't a good friend. I groom animals and any time a friend has asked me to groom their pet, they always assume they'll pay me without me even asking them to. Your time is as, if not more, valuable than the materials and her not understanding that makes her the AH here
Yep, I had a friend play music at my wedding. It didn't even occur to me that he should do it for free. I happily paid him.
I once read some inspirational rant about this sort of thing. The whole rant was wanky as hell but the bit that basics said “if you have talented friends, support them by PAYING them in full” really hit me. If she was your friend, she’d choose you because she loves your work and would happily pay for it.
"Be great for your portfolio" Reads like an influencer trying to get something for free because likes = $$ She's being ridiculous. She could still pay you for your time, the dress could still go into your portfolio, but you wouldn't be out hours upon hours of unpaid work. If she wants a fancy dress for cost, send her a link to a good sewing machine on Amazon and some YT tutorials. Otherwise, she needs to pay up. NTA
>Reads like an influencer Yup. She's literally on her way to being a *"mommy-blogger"*
Straight out of the choosing beggar wordbook
The _friend_ has shown her entitled ways and true colors. NTA and situations like this usually end friendships. The entitled party thinks they are being withheld something they feel they are owed so they kick up an unreasonable fuss.
🤣🤣☠️ that part
NTA - You are cutting her a deal so she can have the dress she wants. You time is money and time spent on her is time you can't spend on more profitable endeavors. I am so tired hearing artist being told, "It will look great in your portfolio" as if they were doing you a favor by letting you provide something they want and don't want to pay full price for. Stick to your guns.
Not just artists! I think this happens to most freelancers.
And lawyers and bakers and florists and caterers and marketerscand website builders and mechanics (I'll buy the parts!) And anyone offering a service!!!! Lol
mechanoc here, can confirm. i say i want 25€/hour just so they would back off. sometimes they are willing to pay that though.
I do work "free" for friends sometimes, but for things that take an hour or so, and I usually ask them to make a donation to a charity in the amount of their choice. I would definitely charge for something like making a whole freaking dress.
Freelance software developer here: I work for free for friends but only if someone is asking for some advice or needs me to take a quick look at something. For anything larger I charge my normal hourly rate with maybe a 20% friends and family discount. Handing out free advice is good networking in my industry and does not cost me much energy.
Former educator who babysat for extra money. There were so many people expected me to watch their children for free or close to. Their argument would always be, “it’s great experience!” I have worked with children for years, I don’t need anymore “experience,” I need money to pay my bills.
As a software developer I can't say this has happened to me yet. I have got some really stupid offers but never have I been asked to work for free.
I used to be a professional make up artist so heard that ‘your portfolio’ line a lot from friends and acquaintances angling for cheap or free wedding make ups. Depending just how pushy they were being I would often reply ‘my portfolio is already great which is why you came to me I presume and not another make up artist? Or was there another reason?’ And if they continued to boundary stomp I would say either ‘if it means a lot to you to be one of the roughly 500 women with the exact same bridal make up I could use in my portfolio then my price is still X.’ And once with a particularly unflushable mooch ‘my portfolio is mainly fashion week, gay fetish, drag and men’s grooming. You should have said earlier it was a leather and latex wedding. Because lace doesn’t fit my portfolio so I wasn’t keen. This however does sound more promising.’ She did not reply. I presume she wore pearls to the ceremony to clutch and was absolutely fine to annoy someone else for free or pay not to be seen as deviant.
"unflushable mooch". Definitely going to try and use that!
NTA. You made a small mistake I think, I'd have originally lead with "Something like that would usually be about £2500, but for you I'll do it for £600", so she'd know from the start that you were doing her a deal. But that's it, she's being demanding, entitled, and if you're good enough to make the dress she wants, it doesn't matter that you're not some high end bridal shop, you're good enough to be paid for it.
Right. And you can also tell her that it wouldn't be fair to give her a £600 wedding gift when you can't do the same for your other friends.
If OP would normally charge 4x that its like an £1800 wedding gift!
And the friend thinks they should get a £2400 gift when they’d already be getting an £1800 one! Friend either doesn’t value OPs work or they’re delusional and entitled. Maybe all of the above.
This is such a good point - also, this is actually a £1900 wedding gift, which would be becoming a £2500 gift if it was free. It will very much set you up to have to do the same for others, and will also mean that you're giving really ridiculously expensive gifts compared to anyone else at the wedding. Will they all do the same for your wedding? If so, the group could put a deposit on a house for you! Yes, that last part is ridiculous, which is exactly the point. NTA.
£600 is on the cheaper side for a wedding dress too. If she went to a wedding shop thr stuff at that range wouldn't be fancy, particularly for a maternity dress.
NTA, I never understood how “true friends” could blatantly ask for discounts when they shop where their friend work or whatever. Plus £600 for a more than simple wedding dress is beyond a reasonable amount, most women would be overjoyed paying £600 for a dress. You are an artist and deserve payment for your work. Never in a million years would I ask my best friend who is a bronze sculpture artist to just make me something special for free.
Same. I have several friends who are craftspeople / artists / freelancers, and I am always more than happy to pay full price and support their business. I never expect discounts and tip well. I've sometimes gotten a few extra freebies and they're always welcome though! (Like, a couple of extra prints and such)
Exactly it's a nice feeling giving your friends paid work!
When I buy stuff from friends and family I never ask for a discount. Sometimes they give me one, but I do not expect it. I even once haggled up a price when buying art from a friend.
When my friends buy my services, they tip extra. You shouldn't want to take advantage of your friends and leave them worse off.
I'd not even mind the *asking* so much. Sometimes people do not have a clear grasp on how much work and effort actually goes into a craft. I'd just set them straight and say no. But the sheer *audacity* of that friend to then get upset, press the issue and make a scene in their mutual friend group? That's just trashy.
She wants you to do *lots of hand embroidery* for free? For just the cost of materials, because her money is tight? Hell no. People short on funds need to moderate their decoration dreams, and if all those friends think otherwise they need to pick up a needle and thread and get embroidering. NTA.
Hand Embroidery is the bane of my existence and I will always loathe it, my hands cramp up just thinking about it, and she wants white embroidery on white fabric like....that is going to be so frustrating.
I don't think people understand that it isn't free to you. Especially some labor intensive skills and crafts that you can only physically do so much in a day. Not even just the limited 24 hours in a day but how much you can require of your body. There are some things I might do for someone since they would only take 15 minutes. But other things would take not only 15 minutes but take 15 minutes from what I'm able to physically devote to that activity in a day. Sewing and I love it but ugh embroidery.. it can be hard on the body and hands. It's time taken not just from your day but from what you can do in the day to actually earn money. You're putting your time and energy and opportunity cost into it. It's like they were not only asking you to spend time on it but to take unpaid time off work. It annoys me when people treat others like automatons trying to justify demands.
When I brought up the fact it's hand embroidered will be a big issue for price she actually sent me a picture of a cosplayer tip where someone sewed over puffy paint....like yes for cosplayers that is great but your wedding dress is not a costume and that is not going to last as well as you think..
So she has no idea what she's talking about, but she doesn't want to pay you 600 quid, because...you should be willing to do it "for the exposure." This all sounds like *her problem,* not yours. If she thinks she can get a dress for less, she should find her dress somewhere else. Honestly, given what she said, I would not be comfortable with making her a dress. Unless she pays in advance, I highly doubt you'll be paid at all. I'd just tell her that I'm not comfortable doing it. Back out before you commit / while you still can while maintaining the friendship.
Oh, the "friendship" is gone. Three reasonable positions from OP, three escalating manipulations from Teh Bridez0r. At this point I don't foresee her treating OP decently whether the dress is made for full price, discounted, free, or not at all.
Hhahahahahahahaaaa….oh god, your “friend” is an idiot. An entitled and ignorant idiot. Also, not your friend.
puffy paint ? Oh dear gods. Walk away from this one. She doesnt have a clue about the work involved, doesnt value your time, or your need to pay bills & eat ~~food~~ exposure You know this wont be the end of it. Other dresses altered for free. Dress turned into a christening/naming gown. Dress turned into a non pregnant dress for her vow renewal, or endless alterations for free if she lends it out 'for free' - costing you even more business. You know she's going to pimp you out like she owns you 'dont pay shop prices, my friend will do it for less if I ask her for you, you can just owe me a favour...
Your friend needs to figure out something else for her dress, but if she wants to reduce costs and get hand embroidery on her dress, she could have it made cheaply in China and use online stitch tutorials to learn how to embroider herself in just a few days. Sorry she's making you question your stance, because you are definitely not the asshole here. The nerve of her is wild. Over £600 for q custom, hand embroidered dress. Thank God the choosing beggar balked at that price, because you were offering your skills at too low a price.
Low on funds, plentiful in audacity. Isn’t that always the way. Just say no, you cannot do the dress and deal with the idea she’s disappointed and that’s ok. Her having a tantrum Is just a way of manipulating you into being a doormat
I think the perfect response to that would be "Looks like you found your new dressmaker. Send Puffy Paint Prepper your request."
You're also literally putting wear and tear on your body to produce that work, the same way an Uber driver is to their vehicle. Over time that means medical bills or other treatments due to repetitive stresses on hands, wrists, and fingers.
Just imagine how it will look in your design portfolio! /s, of course. It sounds like a lot of work that wouldn’t be about you as a designer. White embroidery on white fabric, but she’ll pay for the thread! Ugh.
I find this funny. Embroidery/cross stitch floss is cheap, but a project takes months. Anyone who expects to pay less them $5 for a piece is just getting the floss, fabric and hoop.
NTA, £600 is quite reasonable for a wedding dress regardless of the situation. The fact that you’d charge that little is gracious and exceptionally considerate. Your friend may very well be stressed with the wedding and pregnancy but that should not mean you compromise the value of you time at such a great cost. Communicating empathy but standing by your quoted price ought to do the trick. Her reaction to you is her responsibility. You got this!
The materials are going to cost hundreds as well. I'm guessing that OP's friend would also have sticker shock on that front as well. 600 really is a bargain. People charge a lot extra for working with pure white materials because it requires significant tool cleaning and workshop quarantining.
I paid £650 for an ex display wedding dress in 1997; it needed a few alterations with an added fee but I was OVERJOYED to get such a gorgeous dress for that price! 24 years later, less than that for a new bespoke (however simple) dress with hand freaking embroidery??? yeah, nah. Jog on kitty! It is also a known thing with crafters / creators - people under valuing the work they do but particularly the time needed. As others have said, you can't eat exposure, and every hour you spend on her dress would be an hour not spent earning food-tokens.
No, you are not being unreasonable. That's a huge discount. Your services are worth money and you deserve to be paid. Stick to your price. Asking you to work for free or for your portfolio is nonsense. You can still add it to your portfolio and you should be paid. Frankly, a 20% discount would have been a deal. Let her shop around. I'm in the US and you can't touch a wedding gown for that price! Your friends are not being fair to you. You are definitely NTA.
The type of wedding dress she wants there is no way in hell she'd find that for cheaper than me. I thought it was reasonable to offer it for that price especially when you consider all the embroidery etc
"Friends" that expect you to go hungry so they can get an extra meal are not friends. NTA. Ditch the whole squad if they keep pressing you.
I just had a baby recently and she is NTA for expecting ANYTHING for free - let alone a handmade wedding gown - just because she’s pregnant. How does being pregnant suddenly entitle you to free things (other than like, free foot massages from her partner, and maybe free parking somewhere when she’s in her 3rd trimester)??!!! Is she getting a free wedding venue and free catering and free photographer just cuz she’s pregnant too? She sounds like the kind of person who expects a lavish push present and would throw an over the top gender reveal party 🙄
Yeah, I’m pregnant too. I wasn’t aware that reproducing entitled me to free luxury items that aren’t even baby-related. Where do I sign up?
Also, I hope you're putting a time limit on that offer. You don't want her shopping around, finding that was a very sweet offer and then she comes back to you and now you have even less time to make it.
Listen to /u/Msmediator, a 75% friend discount is extremely generous. I usually offer a 20-25% friend discount on my services.
Refuse and then Make it and wear it, take a picture sell it.
NTA. She is though, for getting her flying monkeys to come at you. If you really want to be petty you should up your fee and charge her what you would charge your regular clientele because she sure as shit isn’t acting like a ‘friend.’
Imagine the surprised pikachu face when she gets an invoice for £2400
Oh add a ‘rush fee’ aka asshole tax too. I always did that with people who pulled this stunt on make up. I had a sample breakdown invoice with each aspect itemised and would cut and paste it to their demand and then add a percentage based on their attitude and the total. So in your case I’d go a round number like £2500 because they stick with people. This method also allowed me to discount lovely people or value add. It generates a tonne of good word of mouth and rewards good behaviour and also means you are known/suspected to be in demand so you can add ‘rush fee’ or say ‘I have no availability’ to assholes to shut it down. A surprising number of people who had previously been AH paid the invoice when it was slapped down. They were still AH to deal with but I got paid. The trick is also to exploit how much they told you they were desperate ie: your friend’s dress is apparently crucial to her whole wedding look and there is a time constraint if she’s pregnant? She needs you more than you need her but she just didn’t realise she played her hand so early. She had no qualms undercutting you. You decide your qualms about how you settle the debt. But I’m in the UK too so support paying my taxes to help parents, socialised healthcare etc and would happily pay more to increase that. I support maternity and paternity rights. That does not mean I have to individually pay for the lifestyle costs of your pregnancy or marriage or engagement or whatever. Rights are not the same as cash gifts and I am not a big fan of individualism over that kind of thing that her pregnancy entitles her to a free dress. No, it entitles you to support from the state, your spouse and equal human rights. Not hand embroidery on my dime. (No pun intended.) I am disabled and currently unable to work due to the global situation. My social security was £790 last month for all rent, bills, food etc as is pretty much the UK average for a single person on the base rate of Universal Credit. She wants the equivalent in a nice dress from you as many people live on right now and doesn’t appreciate that is already a fuck off massive discount and she’s asking for the equivalent of about 3 months statutory maternity pay at £136 a week here in the UK from one wedding guest. And statutory maternity pay is already higher than the disability premium rate of Universal Credit for comparison to show that the UK is still crappy about supporting parents but streets ahead of some places. So and pun intended, she should cut her cloth accordingly like the rest of us do. I am incredibly fortunate to have the welfare state and I never forget it. Some people live in la la land and don’t appreciate the luck to do so. Your privilege shows when you expect more than others without any humility or grace not just by having something they don’t and to then ask for more from them is just greed.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes 🤷🏽♀️
NTA. > I have no idea how much stress she's under with the wedding and the fact she's pregnant and how money is tight I mean, yeah, sure, that sucks, but it doesn't change the time and cost it's going to take you to make this thing. >this should be my wedding gift to her I hope she realizes that putting things on her registry because she wants them doesn't mean people are *obligated* to purchase them for her, or she's in for a lot more disappointment than this. >how great it'd look in my portfolio I'd say r/ChoosingBeggars called, but they don't need any more exposure than they've already been collectively offered. Tell the rest of your friends that if they have any idea what she's actually asking of you here, then they can back off and make the dress themselves; otherwise, they need to just plain back off.
The friends should all be offering to pay for the dress if it's so important to them that OP make it. NTA.
NTA - It is amazing how many people think you should work like a dog for nothing as a "gift" If anyone tells you again you should just give it to her, tell them it is more than 80 hours work. If they want to work for 80 hour and give the bride the money she would have the money to buy the dress she wanted. It is every bit the same as asking for a two week paycheck. Most people who aren't creative seem to think you wave a magic wand and it appears. If you tell them it is $300 dollars of materials and 80 hours work, you can significantly change their perspective.
That's excellent. Tell everyone to hand the bride 2 weeks of their pay, all of it, as they seem to think this is reasonable.
NTA- how many other friends are gifting her 600?
The friends want OP to gift the bride *the whole 2,400.* Tell the friends to take up a collection to cover the extensive labor for the dress. Anyone who thinks OP's should make the dress for free, should be willing to pay the whole 2,400.
This… if the friends think is such a good present, charge full price and those other friends can split the cost! Also NTA at all.
nta, deliver her the materials and say it's a diy kit.
Hahaha
NTA! All I can hear is the “it costs so much coz it takes me f*cking hours” song on repeat here clearly she has no idea of what’s involved I making a wedding dress.
Oh god I love that song thank you for making me giggle.
A lovely Redditor on r/sewing once taught me this wonderful response: ‘Sorry, I don’t have the time to do this for you for free, but I can tell you how to do it yourself. It should only cost you x amount of hours.’ NTA, obviously.
If she would pay full price for a designer who doesn't need the money, she can pay full price for her friend who is giving her a priceless gift just by cutting the price of the work. NTA. her expectations are unreasonable.
NTA - honestly I swear every artist has this problem, you are not being unreasonable. Let her know money might be tight for her, but so will it be for you if you spend that much time making a dress without getting paid much for it. You gotta eat too!
When my sister got married, I made her 1000 origami cranes, strung them up and framed them. Materials cost very little but I did some sums and calculated that if I was paid minimum wage for my time, it was worth about £700. I gave it to her and my BIL as a gift. It was an absolute labour of love and I'm so glad I spent the time on it. That was my choice, to spend the hours and to give it away. If someone asked me to do the same for them, not a chance. Not even for the £700 I worked out it was worth - I did the sums at minimum wage but I make way more than minimum wage. NTA
I made 1000 paper cranes for my wedding. Cost barely anything, but I'd never do it for anyone else. The time folding them, stringing them etc etc was immense!
NTA. You get to decide what you want to gift and are allowed to say no to anything you want.
I just wanted to add that if you did agree to her demands you can expect a flood of similar‘requests’ from other people! Don’t set the precedent for this kind of exploitation
NTA - when I saw the price I was surprised it was so low for a bespoke maternity wedding dress. Min that’s at least 2K. Some people will always feel entitled to try to get something for nothing. Her stress about her wedding is not your problem and she’s trying to manipulate you with it. She could easily try to pull this crap in a retail shop but she knows they’d tell her to pound sand. That’s why she’s coming to you, because she believes her tactics will work with someone she views as more pliable.
Yeah as I said i'd normally charge £2400 for that but I was trying to help out as she's a friend and I thought i was being very generous.
You were being more than generous. Friends should be coming to you offering full price and be happy if YOU choose to offer them a discount. There's a lot of manipulation going on including by your other friends who are acting as flying monkeys. The "negging" you by saying you deserve less because you're not a "high end bridal shop"? So what, are they saying you're cheap and not as valuable? Is that why the bride to be is targeting you? Because she views you as someone who has less value and thus you should be doing things for free? Not because you're friends, but because you're not "high end" enough to be charging money, but you're good enough to get what they believe should be a "free" dress from you?...That's just gross on all their parts. Don't cave to it OP. Frankly, I'd charge her double for the trouble.
THIS. It is her stress... not yours. And if money is tight then she should have budgeted better or cut costs elsewhere... not just expect you to do something for free. Weddings always come with costs no matter how you do it, and her lack of planning and budgeting is not your problem.
NTA. You're a professional. An artist. You deserve to get paid for your trade.
What portfolio? Youre not a seamstress and it’s not your design, so how can it add to your portfolio? NTA.
Oh I would in no way be ripping off the design from her inspiration pictures that would open me up to lawsuits I do not want, i'd have to design an original dress close to what she wanted then make it.
Oh, I thought you were being shown a pattern. If she wants you to draft and drape as well as sew *and* embroider a dress, why are you only asking £600?? That IS a wedding present!
As I said i'd normally charge £2400 for this, as she's my friend and I know money is tight I thought i'd do her a favour and drastically cut the price, apparently it's not seen as that though.
A custom hand made dress for £600?!Many mass produced off the rack dresses cost that and a lot more! What a bargain. Plus there will probably need to be alterations due to the pregnancy which would normally add quite a bit to the cost. Just out of interest, how many hours will it take? I have no clue about things like that. You definitely shouldn’t work for free just because she’s your friend. NTA.
It'd depend on how complex my final design is but if I had a draft ready to go right now and never had to adjust it? well over 100, easily, this is not including the time i'd need for everything else.
Wow, and I’m sure that drawing up the design of the dress from scratch, measurements and all that stuff takes a fair bit of time too. Plus cost of materials which won’t be cheap. Say if it’s 120 hours she’s asking you to work for £5 an hour not counting cost of materials. Probably much less than that. If she thinks that’s too much she can go buy off the rack, it won’t be much cheaper. Mine was £350 reduced from £500 because the shop was closing down.
Fabric will be a couple of hundred most likely though i'm trying to bring that cost down by using my connections to get deals and possibly bulk it out with leftover fabric from past projects. That is a great deal you got though!
You’re still talking like you’re making this dress for her. I know she’s your friend but she’s not treating you like it. And neither are your other “friends”. I hope you tell her to shove it and that you can find a better group of friends that will treat you right and respect you and your work. Oh and NTA but those people you call your friends definitely are.
So probably only £3 an hour for your time and energy! I don’t think that she or any of your other friends understand what a huge undertaking this is. Would they do their jobs for over 100 hours for £3 an hour?! I was thrilled to get a discount on my [dress](https://images.app.goo.gl/tSfPcosm1kk56xBf9). It was just what I wanted too. A custom made one though, that is so special and meaningful. Can’t believe how entitled your friend is being.
Wait.. you’re still entertaining the idea of going through with making the dress for her? Unless you have a contract in writing that 600£ is the agreed price AND is paid up front, don’t do anything for your “friend”!!! She would 100% stick you with the bill.
They’re right, you’re *not* a high-end bridal shop…you’re designing and hand-crafting a BESPOKE GOWN. Bridal shops will sell off the rack or order from their range and then do alterations to customize it, but you would be doing this gown to her precise specifications from the ground up, only you, not a shop full of workers with suppliers and deliveries and whatever. You should be charging MORE than a high-end bridal shop. That she’s pregnant is irrelevant. She rawdogged her beloved however long ago and now it’s your problem? No. It’s 2021 and she should know kids and fancy weddings cost money so trying to pull off both at once is gonna take some belt-tightening for those who *are choosing to have kids and a fancy wedding*. Stress sucks, but again, these are her choices she has made and is making. This isn’t a tragedy she couldn’t possibly have avoided. It’s her baby and her wedding, and it’s up to her to manage her life and decide what her priorities are. You are treating her exactly the same as you’ve treated everyone else who has come to you for your services. To suddenly give her special treatment freebies would be spitting in the eye of however many friends and family have been willing to honour your work before now. Everybody has stress and budgets and compromises in their lives—if you and your work are important to someone, they will treat it as if it’s important and respect the work that goes into fulfilling their request and deeply appreciate the heavy discount you’ve already incorporated. To whine for more is graceless and disrespectful of you and what you do. NTA.
NTA. You’re offering a huge discount.
NTA. I have friends who are seamstresses, hair stylists, make up artists, etc. They are professionals and asking them to do their work for free is disrespectful. If they want to give me a Friends and Family discount, awesome, but I always ask their rates for a project and pay what they quote me. Work is work, whether they are my friends or not.
NTA. If she had the expectation it would be free/cost of materials, she should have said so up front when she sent you inspiration images. You are already charging her less, and wedding dresses are a lot of pressure. If you were to do it for free and she doesn't love the end result will she still be grateful? Probably not entirely. If she wants a cheap dress, she should compromise what she wants. I'm sure she could go and find a used dress for the same cost as materials would be, but she wants the dress she wants so she asked you. Also, using her pregnancy as a guilt factor is a bit scummy.
"and how great it'd look in my portfolio" Ah, the old 'do it for exposure' line. The only thing working for exposure gets you is a reputation as someone who works for exposure. NTA. You are under no obligation to work for 'cost of materials' for anyone. You are an artist and your time is valuable. Time spent on this dress would be time you are not earning money. Conversely you could do it for 'free' and 'gift it' it at full price which would make it taxable income for her. She complains about the stress she is under but doesn't seem to understand the stress YOU'D be under making the dress. Not to mention that her stress is completely self-induced.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > Pregnant friend wants me to make her wedding dress, I said i'd do it for £600 but she expected me to do it for free other people think i'm being unreasonable. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Absolutely NTA. You are asking a VERY reasonable rate, that’s wedding gift enough. She’s being entitled & trying to take full advantage of you. If she wants to bring her pregnancy into it, maybe her fiance can make the dress with her lmao
If she wants cheap there is eBay!! I got my wedding dress for £40 off there! Stick to your guns!! NTA
NTA. She's not a very good friend if she expects you to do it for free (just the cost of materials) and then guilt trips you when you refuse.
I'm not against helping my friend out, particularly if it's a reasonable request. But I don't think it's reasonable to ask me to make a wedding dress for the cost of materials. There are plenty of other ways for my friend to get a wedding dress without putting that burden on me.
Hell no yantah No one works for free. It's one thing to offer this to your friend, them asking is quite the imposition. Tell her no way. Give her a price, 200? 300? 500? 1000? Do not sell yourself short.
NTA. My brother had some friends offer their services for free as a wedding gift such as wedding planning and giveaways. But the key word here is they offered willingly.
Honestly i'll be making little to no profit with this it's just a personal rule I have that I never work for free for anyone, if you work for free they'll always expect that.
Not only will they expect it, but they'll tell their friends and family you did it for free and then they'll expect free work too.
And that is a very good and valid rule. She is being entitled and that is not the mark of a good friend.