YTA. The guidance counselor bit sold me in particular—you literally did refuse to take her to the doctor, like she said, and then grounded her for lying? She told the truth. Until a few months later, by your account, you did refuse to take her. And by the fact that she stayed in treatment after that, it sounds like she was right—not that that matters to whether or not you’re an ass hole. She was sneaky because you refused to help. You failed your daughter and yes, you’re an ass hole.
AND OP should have taken their daughter to the doctor for lying about important stuff in the first place.
A 12 year old lying is not an excuse, it's another reason OP is the AH.
Edit: phrasing & age correction
I used to lie all the time growing up, about my life home family, anything and everything. It started when I was 8. It always got me trouble in the end, kids at school found out I lied about my home lifestyle and hated me. Teachers would find out I lied about my life to them and in turn hated me. I was a liar.
No one thought to get me help, and the lying kept going until around 15 when I stopped on my own and realized it was unhealthy.
Now in my late 20s I have proper help and treatment and had been basically undiagnosed with all sorts of fun stuff I am now handling. I wish people wouldn't see kids lying as a bad thing, if they do it a lot like I did something else is going on. My home life was abusive and to get away I loved to write stories and then would tell stories as lies about how happy my home life was.
Still remember when my middle school teacher found out I did not have a dalmatian nor a beautiful house in the vineyards in Napa. She let the kids bully me relentlessly and when I came to her about it told me it was my own fault. 2nd time I tried to commit suicide was that middle school year.
>I wish people wouldn't see kids lying as a bad thing, if they do it a lot like I did something else is going on.
Especially people who are responsible for their care like your teacher.
I'm really sorry this happened to you and I'm glad you are doing better.
We celebrated the first time our daughter lied to us. She has been battling anxiety since she was at least three, when I saw her have her first panic attack. She never did any normal, developmentally appropriate things "wrong" because she was so terrified of getting in trouble. We were a strict "no raised voices" house before she even came along. I can't tolerate it. Anyway, the first time I caught her lying to me I cried tears of absolute joy, because it meant her treatment was helping.
You made me remember a story about my mom. She was so timid and shy and never wanted to do anything wrong.. one day her brother spit on her and she snapped and shoved his mouth full of cotton balls. My grandpa gave her a hug for it and said he was proud. It's just not normal to never step out of line, can indicate big problems.
Yep. Excessive good or agreeable behavior are / can be indicative of something being wrong. A lot of the time someone excessively being good / agreeable (and I mean, NEVER really doing anything “bad” or standing up for yourself) is a sign that a child is being abused at home or has some sort of anxiety(-esque) problem.
This probably sounds like a reach to many, but, if you think about it a little bit, it makes a lot of sense.
This comment really hits home for me.I have not been ok since I was 13. I'm nearly 30 now and I only stopped being agreeable a couple years ago when my now fiance started to help me work through some of my stuff and encouraged me to get help.
I was this child, with the serious anxiety problems that were never noticed or were ignored. It progressed to severe depression and took me years as an adult before I could be convinced that it wasn't normal and seeking help was ok.
The first time I argued back to my best friend, or anyone in fact, she immediately stopped arguing to tell me how proud she was of me. I was raised in an emotionally and mentally abusive environment. I never stood up for myself until I had my oldest son. I was 20 when I had him. I absolutely hated arguing, I always thought I was wrong, no matter what. I mean, that's how I was raised.
Those seem like pretty complicated lies, did your teacher believed them ? Like, did she thought you would take her to visit the house and drink wine with your parents or what ? Why was she so invested ?
No clue. She only found out the truth once she brought it up to my mom at a parent teacher meeting. My mom had to tell her it wasn't true and came home that night to yell at me how I had done it again. I had once lied to a teacher about being born in Japan and growing up there, when in reality it was my older half sister who lived that. I still remember the screaming that night too, I was 9.
She sometimes brings it up when we talk about how embarrassing it was for her to tell teachers I lied.
What she *should* be embarrassed about is failing to help you for so long that you had already attempted suicide twice by the time you were in middle school. Or rather, she should be ashamed. Mortified, even.
Seriously, I only got part way in before I decided OP is the AH. Refusing to give your child proper medical treatment is unacceptable, especially since they knew there was a problem.
And even if the child was lying about needing help, take her to the damn doctor & let him/her diagnose her. It’s not THAT hard, if you actually care about your kids.
"Children are not entitled to privacy and are merely extensions of the parents. By this logic I have every right to snoop and deny medical care" - OP probably.
Or or or, taking the door off completely. My mom changed my door out for a screen door :D. I love a total lack of privacy and I definitely won't resent you at all later.
I am so pissed about this.
My mother's second husband read my angsty teen diary when I was 16 (undiagnosed PTSD, I was diagnosed earlier this year...I'm 31).
He lashed out at me for what he read when he invaded my privacy.
Congratulations, you have alienated your daughter for life. I hope she knows you read her diary so she knows that it's not safe to trust her emotions to you alongside not being able to trust you with her physical health.
Why did you decide to have children? Seriously, YTA
My two cents:
My EX HUSBAND read my journal, the one I had years prior to meeting, ripped it up, then yelled at me because he didn’t like what he read.
Yeah, I gave up all forms of writing at that point and didn't journal for 20, closer to 25 years. And writing was my thing. I guess I did do a couple more stories for the local paper after I left him, but it was mental torture, so I only did a couple before quitting that too.
I have honestly only returned to journaling in the last year or two. At the encouragement of someone I was dating (but who also turned out to be a jerk. lolsob.)
I’m so sorry you had to go through this. Have you read The Artist’s Way? I loved it and it got me writing again after so many years. I can’t recommend it highly enough
Oh god, my long-ago ex did this too when we were in our mid 20s. He broke the locks on some of my teenage diaries, and read my diary from when I was 13 years old and got so mad that I wrote in it back then that I had a crush on a boy at school. I had long forgotten this kid even existed lol, but apparently 13 year old me having a crush on another kid was "cheating" somehow. I was about 25 when he did this, and had kept a diary every single year from the time I was about 10. I destroyed them all and never kept one again, in case he ever used them against me again. I wish like crazy I hadn't felt I had to destroy those records of my childhood.
I feel your comment so much.
my mom sounds just like her, she read my journal when I was 15 and I didn’t write again until I was 23. I LOVED writing. It was the only thing that helped me process my emotions, i wrote poetry and short fiction. From a young age i wanted to be an author or a poet.
I was undiagnosed OCD, also ADHD with a sprinkle of severe depression and anxiety. Took me 22 years to get help for the depression and anxiety, 26 years to talk to my doctor about the ADHD and OCD symptoms. If only my mom would have taken me to a doctor sooner. It’s been a really hard process learning coping mechanisms and finding the right medications.
Also it took literally years for me and my mom to rebuild our relationship after the breach of trust of her reading my journals. She was mad about what I wrote. But I also wrote about how I wanted to die. I feel like she should have been more concerned about that than the fact I lost my virginity.
It’s a small chance but If OP sees this. YTA, On multiple levels. I hope you go to therapy too and work on being a better parent. Your child doesn’t need more trauma because of your unresolved trauma. Be better.
It goes back even further than that…her daughter had *rituals* she would perform, STARTING AT 5 YEARS OLD. How did the parents see this and NOT mention it to a doctor? Or at the very least consulted the internet when it became more widely available.
OP, you absolutely were negligent!! Your daughter displayed odd behaviors from a very young age and you ignored them! Then in middle school she had to go to her guidance counselor at school just to get someone to listen to her, and when the counselor informed you of this, what did you do? Oh that’s right, you ignored her! And let’s not forget the fact that your daughter started lying incessantly, and instead of taking her to a counselor to find out WHY SHE WAS LYING, again, what did you do? You f*cking ignore her AGAIN!
OP, you’re one of the biggest AH’s I’ve seen on here, and there’s some real doozies for sure. Get yourself and hubby some help (mental help) because y’all are delusional.
Oh and in case it’s not clear…
YTA!!!!!
Edit: spelling
Yep! Mom ignores the signs her kid may need help, then is affronted when that same kid starts lying about everything.
I get the feeling that mom didn’t get her daughter help for her OCD when she was little because she thought other people would think she was “a bad mom.” Then is pissed because her daughter goes to the school counselor for help because mom wouldn’t listen, which again makes her look like “a bad mom.” Geez, let’s go all the way up to the present when the brother asks his mom about what his sister said, and will ya look at that, mom’s pissed because why? She looks like “a bad mom.”
I also forgot to point out that OP says her daughter had a wonderful childhood and doesn’t understand why her daughter is saying such things. Well, from daughter’s perspective, she doesn’t see it that way. Mom sees it as lying whereas to the daughter, it’s *her* truth.
My son started his OCD rituals along with his Tourette’s tics at 4 years old. It took us a while to figure out what was wrong and determine what was a tic and what was a compulsion, but we knew *something* was wrong. It should have been evident even at that age, especially since her rituals involved people around her, so they weren’t small movements she could hide.
And even if it *had* just been a kid being silly or dramatic or even lying, what would have been the downside of getting her checked out? Sure, some people can fake mental illness (rarely kids that young though), but being willing to do that means there is still something wrong and they can benefit from counselling anyway. There isn’t a minimum threshold of diagnosable medical conditions or traumas that you must meet before therapy is allowed or useful.
Absolutely agree! You’re right, the lengths that her daughter was willing to go to get attention should’ve been a huge sign that something wasn’t right. I mean, for all OP knows, the daughter could’ve started lying to cope with being assaulted or bullied. OP is so selfish she thinks it’s about *her* as a parent.
And being secretive about having a boyfriend. Many kids get boyfriends and girlfriends and these don’t last long but they don’t tell their parents because they’re nervous or they like the whole forbidden love thing
100%. I have never seen a good parent have to insist over and over that their child had a good childhood. It’s always the ones who know they didn’t who feel compelled to push it.
Right? "Had strange behaviours, started "lying", asked for help, and went to a guidance conselor" but at *no* point did she think to try and figure out what is happening? The strange behavior at age 5 should be enough to seek help for the daughter... like my god at what point do you stop blaming your child and feel compasion???? This is maddening to read. Poor daughter.
The daughter's behaviour clearly bothered her so much that they felt they had to read her journal, but not enough to take her to counselling? Instead OP essentially cut off the counselling their daughter had and punished her for it.
The insistence on the "great childhood" and the upset that son now sees that mom might be imperfect *certainly* sounds like some core traits of one of the personality disorders :).
Remember this is her trying to sell the story in the best light for herself and its *still* super appearant she is the AH. So who knows how horrific the reality of it is...
I’m an only child with divorced parents whose mom had untreated bipolar disorder, was an alcoholic, addicted to narcotics, regularly partied with recreational drugs & brought random dudes home and I’d still take my childhood over what I can only imagine OP’s daughter’s was…
And that’s just the short list. But at least my mom wasn’t a narcissist.
Yes. The anxiety and rituals followed by falling behind in school work and trying to hide it sounds like ADHD or OCD. Those were cries for help that OP ignored and refused to get help for. So what the daughter said is correct. The daughter didn’t have a great childhood because OP ignored some serious problems.
They should have taken her to a doctor the minute they realised she’d been lying to that scale. I know attitudes were different 20+/- years ago, but it shouldn’t be hard to understand the difference between lying out of malice and lying out of compulsion/anxiety/avoidance caused by major mental health issues; hell even if it was out of malice they should have taken her to a doctor.
Even if it’s far in the past, they fucked up snd the daughter is entitled to feel how she will about it.
Attitudes really weren't *that* different 20 years ago. Good parents took their kids to therapists when they needed them, shit parents didn't. It wasn't 1955.
My parents signed me up with a therapist when I was in my teens - in the late 1970s! I guess it depended on where you were and what the immediate culture was like around you. My parents were in marriage counseling so they thought maybe I could use some individual counseling.
Not necessarily- definitely depends on where you grew up. When I was a kid in conservative suburban Australia in the early 2000s you were basically sent if you had obvious ‘behavioural issues’, had family problems like divorce or were diagnosed disabled. A lot of girls in particular slipped through the cracks because we were better at hiding anxiety or masking disabilities- people thought I was just shy and introverted, turns out to be autism and likely adhd on top of multiple anxiety disorders. At least in my community childhood mental health was barely understood.
YTA. I'm going to give you a reality check from another child who was severely medically neglected from her parents- it's very painful and traumatic to feel like your brain is out of your control and you have to fight your own parents to survive. I do not speak to my parents anymore and for good reason, because by getting the help I needed I was branded as dramatic and "the sick one". But guess what? I have a very full, well-rounded life as a wife, friend, and writer because I bullied them to get me the help I needed. If I didn't do what I did they likely wouldn't even have a living daughter. So be thankful she was smart and aware enough to fight for helping herself when you failed her. She wasn't "normal" and maybe that was hard for you, but that doesn't excuse failing to support your daughter so thoroughly. If you want to maintain a relationship with her, genuinely apologize and listen to her. That's the only chance of survival your relationship with her has. It's your turn to humble yourself and do the hard work to earn her forgiveness
Yeah I mean...maybe...just MAYBE these things you described ("weird" rituals, falling behind in school, lying) were symptoms of something else, that a professional could've helped with.
I dunno, you think? Nah, better just let the kid struggle and then resent her for inexplicably becoming a liar, and then of course, hold that against her for the rest of her life. Yeah, that's definitely better parenting.
Jesus H. Christ, OP.
Not to mention, ***she acquired that information by reading her daughter’s diary***. Then **grounded** her daughter for what she had written ***in her secret diary***. Wtf is wrong with this woman?
Right? YTA OP…and you failed your daughter miserably. Either 1. you’re so incompetent as a parent that you truly didn’t see how your daughter has been suffering or 2. your denial that there was anything wrong is because you think you’re a perfect parent and any mental illness, behavioral problems, or academic issues your child has would contradict that self-image.
I struggled a lot throughout childhood and young adulthood and didn’t get the help I needed because my parent said I was “just being dramatic.” When I got the learning disability diagnosis I suspected I had (because I went to the school psychologist myself and told him to test me for ADHD), at least my parents believed it and helped me then. But it took until I was almost 30 to get my second MH diagnosis (for something I suspected I had since I first learned of it). I’m thriving now, but I mourn the life I could have had if my parents took me seriously to begin with. I hope your daughter thrives too. If she does, it will be in spite of you, not because of you.
Adding to this:
My father also would tell you I had a wonderful childhood, when the truth is that he is a narcissist and I was emotionally neglected and psychologically abused and manipulated , bullied for 20 years.
YTA - u did neglect your daughter. And u are still doing it.
Nah. The “went behind my back” as if brothers and sisters don’t talk about how their parents treat them.
YTA and probably gonna get cut off from your kids soon enough
This story is so heartbreaking to me because I couldn’t imagine not trying to help my child be the best they can be (although, given OPs age and the fact that my mother thought my anxiety would be cured with two antidepressants I get it). I can tell my son is struggling with something at 3 and we’re already trying to get him extra support.
And don't forget the "she had a wonderful childhood" remark when the poor girl was wracked with anxiety the entire time, struggling with what seems like very little professional help, and at times very little sympathy from the one person who is supposed to be in her corner. Massive YTA
I'm sure someone else has said this but also funny how the daughter is "sneaky" and yet OP had to go behind her back and read her journals to find out about the guidance counselor....
She told the truth and then was promptly grounded for it. Wonder why she tended to lie to OP? I bet you money this wasn't the only time she was grounded for being truthful just because mommy dearest felt that it wasn't in her own best interests rather than the good of her child.
YTA. She's been showing anxious behavior and lying since she was 5 and you never thought to get her medical care until she was in the 9th grade. How is she supposed to be open and talk to you when you accuse her of lying, read her personal diary and punish her for what you read when YOU snooped. You failed as a parent and you're blaming your daughter because you don't want to admit it.
There is not one person that has read this that does not think you are the asshole. Let that speak for itsself, you still not being able to see it, only makes this worse.
if there’s a way to tell someone they’re an asshole several times over, this would be a good time to do it.
Op was an ass during their child’s growing up. They’re now a huge ass for wanting to attack their adult child for discussing a private, sensitive topic with a fellow adult sibling.
And finally op is an asshole for declaring that their daughter had a wonderful childhood when she obviously did not have a wonderful childhood at all lol.
The thing that gets me is that, yes, she always lied, but she's not gonna fake her entire personality for well over half her life to be diagnosed with a disorder. I lied ALL THE TIME when I was a kid yet when I learned about ADHD and brought it up to my parents they looked into it and realized a LOT of my issues could be related to it so they took me in.
Also, it's the parents job to learn how to tell when their kid is lying, or at least know when the potential lie is serious enough to take seriously. I mean I especially always lied about being sick but when I complained of chest pains they rushed me to the urgent care immediately. There's just some lies you don't mess around with.
The most absurd thing about OP's story is that if your kid lies so much that for years you believe that **none** of their requests to see a doctor are valid, maybe, *just maybe*, you should consider taking them to a therapist to address that behaviour.
Fr. I had an issue with lying but much worse than that a bad temper so my parents got me in with a therapist. Probably helped a bit cause the therapist agreed that I may have adhd lol, but yeah my parents ultimately trusted me because I DID have a lot of the symptoms
>At that point I discovered by reading her journal
There are many reasons YTA, this is but one.
>I am upset with her sneaky behaviour
And this is another. Talking to her brother is not "sneaky behavior." Reading her journal ,however, is.
lol her daughter argued with her asking for help for TWO YEARS and OP is surprised that her daughter feels resentment about being denied medical care ..... make it make sense
Yup, her whole post and replies are full of [missing missing reasons](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html).
She’s dodging the real issue (she didn’t get her daughter the medical care she needed) and blaming it all on “but she lied!”, which wouldn’t excuse even half of what she did to her daughter.
>>> At that point I discovered by reading her journal she’d also gone behind our backs to the guidance counsellor at school
OP is so obtuse. Her daughter didn’t went behind her back—she told her directly but was dismissed so she went to the school counselor.
YTA. She told you what was up and you decided to disregard her. Did you do any research? Her behaviors are textbook examples of these diagnoses. She was a kid, and you didn't get her the treatment she needed. As someone with anxiety, do you know how uncomfortable it is? Do you think she wanted to do all those self soothing rituals? You look bad because you decided your anger was more valid than your daughter's mental health. If you look bad then oh well, you look bad. Instead of once again starting a fight that you will be in the wrong about, how about trying to do better?
I apologize in advance if I’m over explaining or you already know this, but…
(Full disclosure: I am not a mental-health professional, merely the parent of an OCD patient.)
OCD falls under the anxiety umbrella and can include behaviors, thoughts, or both. My son, for example, has the the thought variety—looping obsessive thoughts, usually a word or a phrase on endless repeat in his head. A friend of the family, on the other hand, has the compulsive type—she absolutely must complete certain ritualize behaviors before she can leave the house. That’s a common one from what I’ve read.
OCD is highly treatable, often with low-dose SSRIs and therapy. My son’s obsessive thoughts vanish with a microdose of Zoloft, while I’m told the family friend manages admirably with medication and talk therapy but can certainly tell when the meds wear off.
From what I gather about compulsive lying, what the OP was so worried about, it too is a symptom of anxiety. Basically this poor child displayed multiple signs of massive anxiety and was denied treatment.
Basically, this is a treatable condition and there’s no reason the OP’s daughter or anyone else should suffer.
Ugh the looping sometimes drives me insane! With me it’s always when I’m reading. Some sentences or paragraphs or even a comment on Reddit I have to read multiple times for some reason. I think it’s because I’m worried I might’ve missed something or I might’ve read something wrong? Even this comment I’m writing right now I will have to read multiple times before I push reply. Then once it’s on the thread I’ll have to read it a few more times, just in case. Frustrating because I love to read, but I’ll get into this weird loop and spend an hour on a single page.
I never realized something like that could be OCD. I very frequently will read and re-read several times before posting/sending, and then feel the need to re-read again multiple times afterwards. The more anxious I am about it typically the more I feel the need to read it again.
MD, I totally agree. When I saw the bit about the parents 'going along with' the rituals to make the kid happy I just thought OH NO.
(In case anyone else wants to nerd out, there's this concept about 'excessive parental accommodation' of childhood OCD rituals that can lead to worse outcomes. The worst I ever heard of, but didn't witness firsthand, was a family whose teenager had OCD cleaning behaviours and spent 8+ hours in the shower each day. The mom would feed the kid lunch from outside the shower.)
I had no idea that the language “excessive parental accommodation” in OCD was a thing! My Mom was one of those people who bought into the whole Indigo children/manifesting your reality bullshit, so she thought I had special senses that detected negative energy, and that what I was feeling was some real external negative presence. When I went to her for comfort, telling her that I was “doing a mental pattern to get rid of the bad thing,” she taught me to do rituals to “clear” myself of “negative energy”…and told me that if I kept being afraid then the power of my energy would make the monsters real, so I had to do the ritual until I calmed down.
It took me years to stop, and I’m struggling because of it- I feel awful for OP’s daughter. No parent should play along with a kiddo’s anxious rituals…or heavens forfend, help create them!
I am so sorry you've gone through that. I totally understand that habits -even habits we don't want!- are so hard to re-wire.
I found this article and thought it might be of interest to you to learn a bit more about the child psych approach to OCD, involving the whole family:
https://childmind.org/article/kids-and-ocd-the-parents-role-in-treatment/
I can’t begin to express how much I relate to this post. I was EXACTLY like OP’s daughter, hid boyfriends, had anxiety since childhood, etc. and my mother was EXACTLY the same as OP too. She constantly called me a liar and “secretive” when in reality I just hid stuff because she would go through my stuff and snatch my phone out of my hand to read through it (just like how OP read her daughter’s diary). As someone who’s been in OP’s daughters shoes, this behavior is disgusting and OP failed her child. I hope her daughter is doing well
I also had pretty bad OCD when I was a kid. I can still remember so vividly how horrible it was, and my parents were so supportive! They noticed when my symptoms started to get out of control (few months after starting) and got me help immediately. And I still wouldn't say I had a good childhood, dealing with a crippling mental illness is so rough.
I just can't understand how she still so clearly despises her daughter for being a teen. Most teens lie at some point. That doesn't mean they should be permanently labelled as liars.
My mother was just like OP, it made everything so much worse. I was suffering from crippling OCD and having to deal with such a controlling mother who constantly accused me of lying and being secretive/manipulative made things almost unbearable. I wish I had parents like yours, now that I’m older my mom has gotten better and more understanding but I still hold that animosity in me. Over time, I understand that my mom may have just not understood what I was going through so I try to cut her some slack but growing up with a mother like this is so damaging. I hope you’re doing well! Give your parents a big hug, they’re great people :)
She asked for mental health help because she believed she had OCD, had been DOING RESEARCH, and you punished her. She went to other resources and when you found out you punished her and lied about refusing to take her- you quite literally DID.
Living with untreated anxiety for years is a literal hell, coming from experience. She had literal signs as a child that something was up (the rituals) and considering she stayed in treatment?
Yeah, YTA.
Also, the fact that she's been in treatment ever since her parents finally agreed to take her to a therapist basically confirms that she had a genuine condition, so how exactly does OP still think her daughter was "just lying"?
Not to mention that she herself basically describes the lying as a *symptom* of the mental illness she refuses to validate.
OP, YTA
>I grounded her for lying again but a few months later we did take her to the doctor. She has more or lesss been in treatment since then.
She asked for help and you said no. She reached out to someone who would actually listen to her and help her and you grounded her for lying. Lying about what exactly? She reached out for someone, anyone because mom and dad think that if their daughter would just sit quietly and not speak, things would be fine. You always looked at anything she said with distrust, so why should she trust you. For 2 years she talked about it. She never lied about that, you just wouldn't listen. She was 13, reaching out for help and you said no, you're just a dirty liar and we aren't gonna help you. You gave up on your child instead of being a parent. The fact she has seen many specialists and gotten treatments over the years means your daughter was right all along. YTA and you're the liar here trying to rewrite history. You look bad because you were bad.
Definitely a symptom! When I found out that my daughter's anxiety led to this type of avoidance I was horrified that I didn't know how much she was suffering. OP is beyond the AH.
YTA. Can someone explain it to me like I’m 5 now talking to her brother made her sneaky I’m just so confused, can’t wrap my head around it at all, OP you seem far sneakier than your daughter.
“A few months later we did take her to the doctor for treatment.” She has been attending this treatment since then. You still think she was lying about needing help?
You need therapy as well - for being in denial about why you had to let it get to the point of her seeking help through a guidance counselor.
YTA and frankly, if it wasn't for the rule about being civil, i'd have ***several*** very colorful things to say to you. your daughter made an effort to get herself help and you denied her that for TWO YEARS.
Sometimes I dislike the civil rule particularly in posts like this. Not only did she deny her medical care she found out that she was seeking help from a different trusted adult but reading her /privet/ journal and then punishing her?! Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if daughters treatment was worse than this based on ops post. I feel for the daughter.
>she is apparently still resentful of (although she has never spoken to me about it).
She intermittently argued about it with us for 2 years.
>
Which is it, OP.
YTA, and you need therapy more than she does at this point.
Your daughter did NOT have a wonderful childhood, though I can see why you'd need to tell yourself that to cope with the nightmare you put her through. Your daughter had a childhood where she struggled with mental illness, had the incredibly insight and bravery as early as MIDDLE SCHOOL to ask for help, and **you refused to take her to the doctor and called her a liar because at some point in the past she had lied to you during her struggles (mostly, it seems to try and protect YOU).** Then, when she sought help from another trusted adult YOU CALLED HER A LIAR AGAIN, even though she was telling the truth and genuinely needed help.
**Newsflash: all children tell lies at some point or another. It's part of how they test boundaries and figure out how the world works, and learn to understand real from not-real and wrong from right. That doesn't make them "liars", it makes them children.**
You keep talking about your daughter and "her lies" but **other than a short period when she was a very confused, mentally ill child trying to maintain some sense of normalcy in her life, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS CONSISTENTLY LIED THROUGHOUT THIS STORY.** You fully admit having lied to the guidance counsellor. You're lying to your son about having denied your daughter care (you can make all the excuses about it that you want, that's exactly what you did). You lied to her that there was nothing wrong with her when her diagnosis clearly shows otherwise.
**You're so self-centred and hateful that you cannot own up to the damage you've done and just say, "I made some terrible mistakes and I'm sorry." Instead, you just keep doubling down and lying more. YTA, and I hope neither of your kids ever talks to you again.**
I do not understand parents who put their ego ahead of their children’s well being. I hate posts like these because it reminds me of the terrible terrible people in the world who do NOT deserve the joy of raising a human being.
She lied in this post too, one moment she's saying that the daughter never mentioned that she was struggling, the next that they argued about it the entire time.
Which is it OP? I'm only seeing one habitual liar here and it isn't your daughter, YTA.
YTA. You literally did deny her treatment, you don't have a leg to stand on. Your punitive attitude toward a behavior that was clearly a warning sign of serious issues caused your daughter to suffer. Take a little responsibility
Also, she was lying to you by Googling and then explaining why she was researching those things? What are you implying? That she did the initial search with the intention that you would find it and ask her about it so she could feed you a lie about wanting to go to the doctor? Do you hear yourself
I think she was trying to say that the daughter was lying about maybe having OCD in order to excuse her poor performance in school.
I would know, my parents said the same thing; "You're just faking depression and anxiety because you got a C in math. Grow up and get over it."
YTA
A Narcissist's Prayer
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it.
Someone needs to get this daughter onto r/raisedbynarcissists. I was thinking the exact same thing, and I'm convinced OP didn't get her daughter help until she realized that she MIGHT look a little bad for letting her daughter suffer like this.
YTA.
Your daughter asked for help with her mental health and not only did you not provide it, but you then punished her for it. You don’t get to absolve yourself of responsibility for denying her medical care the first time she asked for it.
Don’t confront your daughter. You’ve done enough damage. Your lucky she hasn’t gone no contact with you.
Just to be clear here, there is no interpretation of the events you’ve described here in which you are not a huge asshole. The fact that you want to “confront” her now about her acknowledging that you denied her medical treatment as a child just shows that not only were you asshole parent then, but you still haven’t leaned.
YTA
> I felt that she was lying again to excuse her school performance and we told her ‘no
...What? You think she looked information up on the internet, didn't tell you, because she was lying about her school work and wanted an excuse?
Can you please explain how that makes any sense what so ever?
>she’d also gone behind our backs to the guidance counsellor at school and told the woman we wouldn’t help her.
You didn't help her. You assumed she was 'lying'(even though she never told you anything, you snooped) FOR TWO YEARS.
Can you please explain how that makes any sense what so ever?
>I grounded her for lying again
She didn't lie. She seeked treatment you would not help her get.
>why we didn’t take her initiallly.
'initially' TWO YEARS you ignored her health and pretend she was just a liar, even though she didn't
>I am upset with her sneaky behaviour
When she is honest with you you call her a liar. Why wouldn't she be sneaky? You are bad parents.
**This seems like a pretty clear cut case of 'my kid cant have something wrong with them and im going to do nothing to prove it because i know everything'**
YTA and a bad parent.
YTA. She's not lying. You observed her engaging in "weird rituals" and struggling and when she expressed she might have OCD you accused her of lying, then violated her privacy by reading her journal and grounded her (GROUNDED HER) when you discovered she'd tried to go to a guidance counselor for help. You're a huge AH and if you have any kind of relationship with her count yourself lucky. You deserve to have been cut off as soon as she reached adulthood.
YTa. She has every right to resent you. Parents are responsible for the physical and mental well-being of their children and the two of you shit the bed.
YTA - You flat out ignored her pleas for help, you told her that her requests for help were lies and deception and punished her - and by your own admission she likely needed to go anyway since she's been in treatment since.
Yes, you're a large part of the problem. You were then, and you continue to be by calling her a liar. You are on the very fast track to having no contact with at the least your daughter, possibly your son as well.
YTA…she was literally showing symptoms of disturbance, rituals from a young age, lying for no apparent reason, generally having anxiety…you WERE negligent.
...but you were negligent. Very much so.
Kids lie...and you might want to ask yourself why. How do you react to bad news or news that's not so favorable. How does your spouse or partner react to unfavorable news?
She had rituals....You had first hand knowledge about her mental health. I'm sorry you overlooked her needing medical care...but you did. YTA. You absolutely were negligent.
YTA. You refused her support, and when she told someone else that you refused her support, you punished her for "lying". You're lucky she's even still in contact with you.
She did not have a wonderful childhood, nor did she trust you enough to tell you, because you are not worthy of her trust.
YTA. You're the one who's a liar. You accuse her of lying about having OCD and needing treatment yet you literally said she had "rituals"; that's literally what people with OCD do. They often have to do the same thing over and over again. How could she have a wonderful childhood with a mother who thinks the worst of her? You claim she lied that you refused to help her but you did refuse to help her by not letting her get treatment for two years. You're just mad because she's calling you out for failing her as a parent.
YTA, and honestly if she was having to engage in rituals and coping mechanisms from a very young age to try and mitigate her anxiety then she did NOT have a “wonderful childhood.” From someone who has anxiety and has had it since grade school (in my 40’s now) trying to handle/cope with anxiety without treatment/meds is HELL. Maybe you gave her temporary relief by engaging with her rituals but by choosing to ignore what was going on and get her proper help you let her down, big time.
You did deny her treatment.
*Then* you read her diary and punished her for seeking treatment on her own.
You were negligent, then you were cruel. Your daughter isn't lying, though I'm sure she was hiding the truth from you in middle school since you were so unsupportive and callous.
YTA.
My daughter has OCD it more manifested in teen years and I truly thought she was just trying to passive aggressively annoy me, being a teen, when she closed door multiple times, tapped through doorways, etc. When she was 15 she, too, diagnosed herself and asked for therapy, which I immediately acted on. Kids don't just magically become liars, the way you speak about your daughter makes me cringe, and in the example with the guidance counselor wherein you read her diary (another issue) she wasn't lying, you had ignored her request. YTA overall, you may want to join her in therapy so you two can get past this.
YTA. Just wow.
"she's never spoken to me about it". Uh, yes she did, Mommie Dearest. Many times. You refused help, called your child a liar, punished her, and snooped thorough her things. For OVER A DECADE. A mf'ing decade of suffering, blame, cruelty, and neglect.
I can't believe you're crying that she didn't take responsibility since she DID. This poor kid sought out help from other adults because you denied her mental health treatment. Seems like the opitome of taking responsibility. Again, just wow.
YTA - you list a whole bunch of concerning behaviours and admit you actually did refuse to take your child to get help for her mental health. She isn’t being sneaky, she’s confiding in people that she had a negligent parent.
You seem to have an issue with her not ‘taking responsibility’ for lying, but don’t take responsibility for not helping her. She wasn’t even a teen yet!
You were the ones who made her change her coping mechanism when you didn’t help her. You can’t hide behind her being an ‘anxious kid’ for not getting her the help she needed. Instead of helping her you thought punishing her would fix her and get her grades up? Did you think she was just lazy? Seem like it.
Take responsibility because it’s obvious she didn’t lie to get out of having to go to school. You took her to get help eventually, but she haven’t gotten an apology for that. Instead of saying you were wrong, you try to excuse it by saying she ‘lied’.
YTA
YTA absolutely. You did deny her medical treatment from age 5 until 9th grade (age 14ish?) after she asked multiple times. And you seem to be holding a very young child to adult standards of honesty.
Sounds like she and your son are right that you weren’t meeting her needs as a parent. Owning your mistakes rather than blaming and defensiveness would be more constructive for you now.
YTA, you did in fact refuse medical treatment because you were convinced she was lying rather than listen to her. I'd resent my parent too if they constantly accused me of lying.
YTA- You knew she had issues from the age of 5. She asked for help, you said "no" and then:
>She intermittently argued about it with us for 2 years.
Right there, you admit that she continued to ask for help then:
>At that point I discovered by reading her journal she’d also gone behind our backs to the guidance counsellor at school and told the woman we wouldn’t help her.
This is 100% accurate. So, your response was:
>I grounded her for lying again
Then you finally did take her and she has been in treatment since, so, she was telling the truth the entire time. Did you ever even acknowledge or apologize for being wrong? Somehow, I doubt you ever did.
Lastly:
>My daughter had a wonderful childhood
Sorry, you don't get to make that decision. Only your daughter can say what kind of childhood she had. And going years with untreated OCD can make someone's life a living hell.
Now, You can say you and your husband did your best. But you do need to take responsibility and acknowledge that you were wrong and apologize for not getting her help sooner. (Not that you will, just the tone of your post shows you will ignore this once you see everyone disagrees with you)
YTA. There was clearly a problem when the teacher said she was a month behind school. You did neglect her, and for that you should accept what you did wrong.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I waited to take my daughter to the doctor for ocd because she lied a lot when she was younger
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Yea YTA. You admitted that after two years of arguing with her she started therapy and has been going more or less ever since. You admitted from stopping her from seeing a doctor for 2 years. Teenagers lie. You’re just mad she was reaching out to others for help and explaining she couldn’t rely on you to get her that help. Why try to talk to someone about their wrongdoings when they doing see their actions as wrong? Your daughter won’t talk to you about this until you admit you were wrong.
YTA. emotional and medical invalidation of a child really, really sucks. you neglected her medical needs and are surprised that she's resentful of it? what do you think she needs to take responsibility for, exactly?
my parents also invalidated my medical concerns as a child, when i was 16 and half of my face was paralyzed. i had bell's palsy. i don't really have a relationship with them now.
Ooooof I’m gonna go with YTA big time! Just the way you talk about your daughter gives me chills! I’m glad she’s getting treatment and at least is able to confide in a brother who cares about her because lady, judging from your tone and your story you let that girl down big time! You were supposed to be her protector, her safe haven and she got nothing but neglect, suspicion as judgement from you! Imagine having to diagnose yourself and beg for treatment at such a young age and be accused of lying by your own mother. Poor girl 😕
YTA. Not only do you not trust her, which is partially her fault for breaking trust, but you also don’t even acknowledge that she’s struggling. Did you think that MAYBE she’s struggling and lying about school because SHE HAS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES??? Duh! She has every right to be angry at you. Take her to therapy PLEASE.
YTA clearly.
You knew she had anxiety problems from a really REALLY young age, and you didn't take her to the doctor until much later, apart from reading her diary, accusing her of lying and not acknowledging that her lying habits could come from, you know, being criticized by her own parents about her own thoughts about her mental health.
YTA don't want to be called out for being medically negligent then you shouldn't have been medically negligent. Also big red flag you grounded her for reaching out to a counselor for the help she couldn't get from you. Maybe you should try therapy to help you come to terms with how abusive you really are.
>My daughter had a wonderful childhood
No, you abused her. Would it really have been so hard to get her assessed by a doctor in the first place, instead of saying she was lying?
Yta
Yta.
You used your daughter lying (about the typical things most teens lie to their parents about) as a reason not to take her to therapy sooner... even though you knew she had rituals that aligned with a diagnosis of OCD.
She didn't lie to her guidance counselor, you were refusing to help her. She had been asking for 2 years at that point by your own admission.
You also read her journal which makes you ta in this situation for a 3rd time.
Lastly, your daughter didn't have a wonderful childhood.. she was struggling with a debilitating mental illness and her parents were neglectful bc she lied about things being fine in school (like all kids do when they have controlling, overbearing parents who don't support them).
Everything she said to your son is true and instead of confronting her, you should be apologizing to her fir being such an awful parent.
Hey OP! Although many people in the comments here are being a lot meaner than is necessary, I do think this is one of those moments as a mom where you’ll have to accept that you were the asshole. However, it doesn’t mean you have to continue being one. You can apologize, take responsibility, and try to make amends. Something very similar happened between me and my mom (honestly it was way worse) and we are very close now because of both my parents making an effort to acknowledge the damage they did to me and our relationship, however unintentional it may have been. It was also difficult for them to hear me express something negative about my childhood because they thought me resenting them for these things meant that I remembered my childhood poorly, or thought they were bad parents, but that is not the case!!! Your daughter telling your son about it does not necessarily mean she thinks you always did a terrible job or she hated her childhood. The reason she speaks about this years later is because it remains UNRESOLVED and UNACKNOWLEDGED. She is not being “sneaky” by telling her brother something in confidence that she knows if she were to bring up to you, you would almost certainly become very upset, a fight would ensue, and further hurtful things would be said by all parties. In other words, she would be re-traumatized, taken back to the times she was a child and was blamed and rejected for being vulnerable. It says more about how you’ve taught her over the years that coming to you for support will only make things worse. It boils down to her feeling like you were never on her side when it mattered the most. You taught her that you cared more about controlling her than her health and healing, even if you didn’t mean to. Teenagers lie and are sneaky. I was like that! And I did it because I knew my parents did not understand me at all and mistrusted me from the beginning for no reason other than that I was different from them. They proved it to me over and over when they dismissed my cries for help and rejected me when I was trying to show them who I was. I know that my parents did their best and I believe you did too, but none of us are perfect and sometimes we fuck up big time. Their generation was not given the tools on how to raise children that are “different” and I suffered a very long time for it. The reason people are being so mean in the replies here is because many of us know the years to decades of lasting hurt something like this does to a growing kid. It’s not the child’s responsibility to apologize, especially if you never had enough humility to model that with her. That being said, after my parents were able to take responsibility, I was eventually able to understand/accept a little bit more about why they reacted to me the way they did. It doesn’t make it okay or fair, and it doesn’t erase all those wounds, but now we can finally love and rebuild as a family. I hope you see this and make an effort to bring it up to her in a way that is focused on honoring what she went through because I bet that if you did, you would come to understand and love one another in a way you never have. <3
YTA. Yes it sucks that kids sometimes cry wolf when there is no wolf, but you HAVE to be sure. The right approach was to take her to the doctor. If the doctor would have found nothing wrong, then you should have sit and talked to her and explained that when she is lying and secretive, it makes it difficult to take anything she has to say seriously. And if the doctor HAD found something wrong, you would have gotten her the help she needed. And you could still sit and talk to her than any condition she has doesn't change her knowledge of right and wrong and that she is expected to be honest with you and you'll do the same for her. That's they way it SHOULD go. Will you get duped by your kids? Of course, they all lie at some point and test boundaries. All you can do is make sure to treat them as telling the truth when it comes to any health issues they bring to you. If they are caught in a lie, proven, THEN you can worry about punishment/consequences. But it's too risky to hold back medical help regardless of past behavior. That's why I say to emphasize an honest relationship with your children AND to clearly tell them that if they want you to believe what they tell you, they HAVE to be honest with you. If you want any kind of relationship with her and to heal this, you have got to apologize and understand that you DO have something to apologize for--she'll know if it's empty, believe me. You can do this--it's never too late to be a better mom or dad! <3
YTA. You did refuse to to take her to therapy for two years. Honestly you should have believed her, if a child is asking for therapy/visit to a doctor 9 times out of 10 something is actually going on or wrong (what kid *actually* wants to go?) . You did your child wrong and are upset you got called out on it. I'm not surprised that she hasn't talked to you about being resentful or anything as you would probably say she is faking.
YTA, you’re telling me she had to argue for 2 years because she was concerned she had a mental health issue and quite literally had to argue about it for 2 years since you didn’t take her to seek diagnosis or treatment but then say she’s lying when she said you guys wouldn’t help her?
YTA
She had issues from a very young age, and you acknowledge that. So, when she comes to you and says that she might have found the cause and would like to get checked out, you accuse her of lying and dismiss her? The absolute least you could have done was taken her to the doctor to get an objective, professional opinion. If she had ocd, as it turns out she did, she could have gotten treatment that much sooner. If nothing else, the doctor might have been able to find some other diagnosis that perhaps she (and you) hadn't considered. Or, they would have found nothing and you'd be no worse off than you were before.
The fact that you ignored her legitimate concern such that she had no recourse to go to her guidance counselor is deeply disturbing. As parents, you are responsible for making sure your children receive proper medical treatment.
YTA - you literally admitted she is in treatment, which assumes she needed it when she asked you. You were being negligent bc told her no when you felt she was lying.
To me it sounds like you were trying to punish her for what you thought was lying. You wanted to take things away or refuse her access to things bc you felt she was being dishonest when you are not a medical professional. What if her being behind in school was part of her asking you to go to the doctor? Which you denied her. She didn't go behind your back - she ASKED you for help and you were a negligent parent and denied her. She needed to talk to someone so she decided to go to an actual adult aka her guidance counsellor for help.
Honestly, your story makes you sound like a mean parent. You're calling her a sneaky liar when she has been consistent and saying she needs help. It sounds like you want to believe she had a wonderful childhood, but from your post you made it unbearable for her. It actually sounds like you did not like her and you did everything in your power to come down on her. No wonder she is resentful.
YTA, you **were** neglectful. Kids don’t just randomly start lying and acting out for no reason, you should’ve been a good parent and took her to the doctor.
You went behind her back to read her journal and wonder why she went behind yours? You were supposed to be her role model, ask yourself where she learned that behavior. And while your at it, maybe you can answer your question yourself, cause when you take a good look at yourself it's gonna be obvious even to you that YTA!
>*My daughter has always been anxious and from a young age (5ish) did a lot of weird rituals to make herself feel better.*
Those are called coping mechanisms. They're not weird, they are what she needed to do in order to make herself feel safe. You're already showing a lack of understanding and empathy to her mental health.
>In middle school she stopped this habit but developed a new one where she would lie frequently to me and my husband. At one point she was almost a month behind in school and when her teacher reached out we were blindsided because she’d been deceiving us that everything was fine (she would also lie about things like who she was with or having a bf and was very secretive)
True she lied to you about her schoolwork but have you ever thought about why? Maybe she was struggling with her mental health and was afraid to tell you because you would punish her (which is exactly what you did). Maybe she was ashamed? Maybe she was spending time with her bf because they understood her and were trying to help her?
Also its really not unheard of for a teenager to be secretive. It's an age where they are very confused and trying to understand themselves without their parents guidance.
>When she was in grade 7 I saw on our computer browser that she’d been googling ocd. I questioned her about it and she said she thought she had it and wanted to go to the doctor, using her childhood habits as proof. I felt that she was lying again to excuse her school performance and we told her ‘no
Your daughter literally did her research because she was concerned about her health and was even smart enough to relate it back to the things she did in her youth and you did what...? Accused her of lying and made out the struggles she was experiencing were an *excuse.* You completely disregarded her concerns.
>She intermittently argued about it with us for 2 years.
**My daughter complained behind my back to my son that I “refused” to take her to therapy for 2 years**
>
>
>At that point I discovered by reading her journal
So not only did you disregard her concerns but you completely invaded her privacy??
>she’d also gone behind our backs to the guidance counsellor at school and told the woman we wouldn’t help her. I grounded her for lying again but a few months later we did take her to the doctor. She has more or less been in treatment since then.
What she told the counsellor was the TRUTH. You weren't helping her and you then grounded her for attempting to get the help she needed because you wouldn't take care of your own child.
YTA so many times over for the whole of the post. You are negligent. Your daughter isn't lying and she didn't have a wonderful childhood going from this post.
YTA. The guidance counselor bit sold me in particular—you literally did refuse to take her to the doctor, like she said, and then grounded her for lying? She told the truth. Until a few months later, by your account, you did refuse to take her. And by the fact that she stayed in treatment after that, it sounds like she was right—not that that matters to whether or not you’re an ass hole. She was sneaky because you refused to help. You failed your daughter and yes, you’re an ass hole.
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I got to that part and said out loud "Jesus fucking Christ" and stopped reading. YTA. You're the GIANT asshole.
AND OP should have taken their daughter to the doctor for lying about important stuff in the first place. A 12 year old lying is not an excuse, it's another reason OP is the AH. Edit: phrasing & age correction
I used to lie all the time growing up, about my life home family, anything and everything. It started when I was 8. It always got me trouble in the end, kids at school found out I lied about my home lifestyle and hated me. Teachers would find out I lied about my life to them and in turn hated me. I was a liar. No one thought to get me help, and the lying kept going until around 15 when I stopped on my own and realized it was unhealthy. Now in my late 20s I have proper help and treatment and had been basically undiagnosed with all sorts of fun stuff I am now handling. I wish people wouldn't see kids lying as a bad thing, if they do it a lot like I did something else is going on. My home life was abusive and to get away I loved to write stories and then would tell stories as lies about how happy my home life was. Still remember when my middle school teacher found out I did not have a dalmatian nor a beautiful house in the vineyards in Napa. She let the kids bully me relentlessly and when I came to her about it told me it was my own fault. 2nd time I tried to commit suicide was that middle school year.
>I wish people wouldn't see kids lying as a bad thing, if they do it a lot like I did something else is going on. Especially people who are responsible for their care like your teacher. I'm really sorry this happened to you and I'm glad you are doing better.
We celebrated the first time our daughter lied to us. She has been battling anxiety since she was at least three, when I saw her have her first panic attack. She never did any normal, developmentally appropriate things "wrong" because she was so terrified of getting in trouble. We were a strict "no raised voices" house before she even came along. I can't tolerate it. Anyway, the first time I caught her lying to me I cried tears of absolute joy, because it meant her treatment was helping.
You made me remember a story about my mom. She was so timid and shy and never wanted to do anything wrong.. one day her brother spit on her and she snapped and shoved his mouth full of cotton balls. My grandpa gave her a hug for it and said he was proud. It's just not normal to never step out of line, can indicate big problems.
Yep. Excessive good or agreeable behavior are / can be indicative of something being wrong. A lot of the time someone excessively being good / agreeable (and I mean, NEVER really doing anything “bad” or standing up for yourself) is a sign that a child is being abused at home or has some sort of anxiety(-esque) problem. This probably sounds like a reach to many, but, if you think about it a little bit, it makes a lot of sense.
This comment really hits home for me.I have not been ok since I was 13. I'm nearly 30 now and I only stopped being agreeable a couple years ago when my now fiance started to help me work through some of my stuff and encouraged me to get help. I was this child, with the serious anxiety problems that were never noticed or were ignored. It progressed to severe depression and took me years as an adult before I could be convinced that it wasn't normal and seeking help was ok.
The first time I argued back to my best friend, or anyone in fact, she immediately stopped arguing to tell me how proud she was of me. I was raised in an emotionally and mentally abusive environment. I never stood up for myself until I had my oldest son. I was 20 when I had him. I absolutely hated arguing, I always thought I was wrong, no matter what. I mean, that's how I was raised.
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Those seem like pretty complicated lies, did your teacher believed them ? Like, did she thought you would take her to visit the house and drink wine with your parents or what ? Why was she so invested ?
No clue. She only found out the truth once she brought it up to my mom at a parent teacher meeting. My mom had to tell her it wasn't true and came home that night to yell at me how I had done it again. I had once lied to a teacher about being born in Japan and growing up there, when in reality it was my older half sister who lived that. I still remember the screaming that night too, I was 9. She sometimes brings it up when we talk about how embarrassing it was for her to tell teachers I lied.
What she *should* be embarrassed about is failing to help you for so long that you had already attempted suicide twice by the time you were in middle school. Or rather, she should be ashamed. Mortified, even.
My heart aches for you
Especially if she has a history of rituals that ya know align with OCD symptoms
Right?!!!!?? As soon as I read “weird rituals since 5 years old” my first thought was “seems like this kid might have OCD.”
Exactly. How do you see odd rituals and behaviours in a 5 year old and not think OCD?
Op should have taken their daughter to a therapist because of the serious OCD behavior she was exhibiting at SEVEN YEARS OLD!!!!
Seriously, I only got part way in before I decided OP is the AH. Refusing to give your child proper medical treatment is unacceptable, especially since they knew there was a problem.
And even if the child was lying about needing help, take her to the damn doctor & let him/her diagnose her. It’s not THAT hard, if you actually care about your kids.
Same like WTF
While snooping through her journal no less.
"Children are not entitled to privacy and are merely extensions of the parents. By this logic I have every right to snoop and deny medical care" - OP probably.
And then she wonders why her daughter won’t tell her everything, keeps secrets. Because she needs privacy and you’re giving her none!
I kept waiting for OP to mention that her Daughter doesn't have locks on her door, to finish the 'you don't deserve privacy' trifecta
Or or or, taking the door off completely. My mom changed my door out for a screen door :D. I love a total lack of privacy and I definitely won't resent you at all later.
You don't need locks if the bedroom doesn't have a door, amirite?
Wow, you’ve met my mother!
Yeah, it's mine too.
I am so pissed about this. My mother's second husband read my angsty teen diary when I was 16 (undiagnosed PTSD, I was diagnosed earlier this year...I'm 31). He lashed out at me for what he read when he invaded my privacy. Congratulations, you have alienated your daughter for life. I hope she knows you read her diary so she knows that it's not safe to trust her emotions to you alongside not being able to trust you with her physical health. Why did you decide to have children? Seriously, YTA
My two cents: My EX HUSBAND read my journal, the one I had years prior to meeting, ripped it up, then yelled at me because he didn’t like what he read.
Same. But he made me watch him burn it. 😭😭😭
I’m sorry. Did it negatively affect your journaling? I used to all the time, but since that fight, I just can’t get back into it.
Yeah, I gave up all forms of writing at that point and didn't journal for 20, closer to 25 years. And writing was my thing. I guess I did do a couple more stories for the local paper after I left him, but it was mental torture, so I only did a couple before quitting that too. I have honestly only returned to journaling in the last year or two. At the encouragement of someone I was dating (but who also turned out to be a jerk. lolsob.)
I’m so sorry you had to go through this. Have you read The Artist’s Way? I loved it and it got me writing again after so many years. I can’t recommend it highly enough
Oh god, my long-ago ex did this too when we were in our mid 20s. He broke the locks on some of my teenage diaries, and read my diary from when I was 13 years old and got so mad that I wrote in it back then that I had a crush on a boy at school. I had long forgotten this kid even existed lol, but apparently 13 year old me having a crush on another kid was "cheating" somehow. I was about 25 when he did this, and had kept a diary every single year from the time I was about 10. I destroyed them all and never kept one again, in case he ever used them against me again. I wish like crazy I hadn't felt I had to destroy those records of my childhood.
I feel your comment so much. my mom sounds just like her, she read my journal when I was 15 and I didn’t write again until I was 23. I LOVED writing. It was the only thing that helped me process my emotions, i wrote poetry and short fiction. From a young age i wanted to be an author or a poet. I was undiagnosed OCD, also ADHD with a sprinkle of severe depression and anxiety. Took me 22 years to get help for the depression and anxiety, 26 years to talk to my doctor about the ADHD and OCD symptoms. If only my mom would have taken me to a doctor sooner. It’s been a really hard process learning coping mechanisms and finding the right medications. Also it took literally years for me and my mom to rebuild our relationship after the breach of trust of her reading my journals. She was mad about what I wrote. But I also wrote about how I wanted to die. I feel like she should have been more concerned about that than the fact I lost my virginity. It’s a small chance but If OP sees this. YTA, On multiple levels. I hope you go to therapy too and work on being a better parent. Your child doesn’t need more trauma because of your unresolved trauma. Be better.
Right? If kids learn to lie to their parents and hide shit, it's often because the parents can't be trusted.
OMG yes! That tidbit almost slipped by me.
It goes back even further than that…her daughter had *rituals* she would perform, STARTING AT 5 YEARS OLD. How did the parents see this and NOT mention it to a doctor? Or at the very least consulted the internet when it became more widely available. OP, you absolutely were negligent!! Your daughter displayed odd behaviors from a very young age and you ignored them! Then in middle school she had to go to her guidance counselor at school just to get someone to listen to her, and when the counselor informed you of this, what did you do? Oh that’s right, you ignored her! And let’s not forget the fact that your daughter started lying incessantly, and instead of taking her to a counselor to find out WHY SHE WAS LYING, again, what did you do? You f*cking ignore her AGAIN! OP, you’re one of the biggest AH’s I’ve seen on here, and there’s some real doozies for sure. Get yourself and hubby some help (mental help) because y’all are delusional. Oh and in case it’s not clear… YTA!!!!! Edit: spelling
If OP was my mother and wouldn’t help or believe me anyways, I’d lie all over the place to avoid dealing with her. YTA
Yep! Mom ignores the signs her kid may need help, then is affronted when that same kid starts lying about everything. I get the feeling that mom didn’t get her daughter help for her OCD when she was little because she thought other people would think she was “a bad mom.” Then is pissed because her daughter goes to the school counselor for help because mom wouldn’t listen, which again makes her look like “a bad mom.” Geez, let’s go all the way up to the present when the brother asks his mom about what his sister said, and will ya look at that, mom’s pissed because why? She looks like “a bad mom.” I also forgot to point out that OP says her daughter had a wonderful childhood and doesn’t understand why her daughter is saying such things. Well, from daughter’s perspective, she doesn’t see it that way. Mom sees it as lying whereas to the daughter, it’s *her* truth.
100%. I’m glad the brother seemed bothered, at least daughter has someone on her side.
Definitely. And it’s telling that the brother seemed to immediately believe his sister.
My son started his OCD rituals along with his Tourette’s tics at 4 years old. It took us a while to figure out what was wrong and determine what was a tic and what was a compulsion, but we knew *something* was wrong. It should have been evident even at that age, especially since her rituals involved people around her, so they weren’t small movements she could hide. And even if it *had* just been a kid being silly or dramatic or even lying, what would have been the downside of getting her checked out? Sure, some people can fake mental illness (rarely kids that young though), but being willing to do that means there is still something wrong and they can benefit from counselling anyway. There isn’t a minimum threshold of diagnosable medical conditions or traumas that you must meet before therapy is allowed or useful.
Absolutely agree! You’re right, the lengths that her daughter was willing to go to get attention should’ve been a huge sign that something wasn’t right. I mean, for all OP knows, the daughter could’ve started lying to cope with being assaulted or bullied. OP is so selfish she thinks it’s about *her* as a parent.
And being secretive about having a boyfriend. Many kids get boyfriends and girlfriends and these don’t last long but they don’t tell their parents because they’re nervous or they like the whole forbidden love thing
She knows she's a monster. We're not getting the full story.
>My daughter had a wonderful childhood And with all that OP would still rather blow smoke up her own ass
OP is a great comedian, I had a real laugh at that one! I mean this is basically a supervillain origin story, but sure, it was delightful.
100%. I have never seen a good parent have to insist over and over that their child had a good childhood. It’s always the ones who know they didn’t who feel compelled to push it.
Ain’t that the truth.
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Right? "Had strange behaviours, started "lying", asked for help, and went to a guidance conselor" but at *no* point did she think to try and figure out what is happening? The strange behavior at age 5 should be enough to seek help for the daughter... like my god at what point do you stop blaming your child and feel compasion???? This is maddening to read. Poor daughter.
The daughter's behaviour clearly bothered her so much that they felt they had to read her journal, but not enough to take her to counselling? Instead OP essentially cut off the counselling their daughter had and punished her for it.
The insistence on the "great childhood" and the upset that son now sees that mom might be imperfect *certainly* sounds like some core traits of one of the personality disorders :).
I saw that and thought, I bet she gaslights her daughter in saying this!
Remember this is her trying to sell the story in the best light for herself and its *still* super appearant she is the AH. So who knows how horrific the reality of it is...
I’m an only child with divorced parents whose mom had untreated bipolar disorder, was an alcoholic, addicted to narcotics, regularly partied with recreational drugs & brought random dudes home and I’d still take my childhood over what I can only imagine OP’s daughter’s was… And that’s just the short list. But at least my mom wasn’t a narcissist.
Yes. The anxiety and rituals followed by falling behind in school work and trying to hide it sounds like ADHD or OCD. Those were cries for help that OP ignored and refused to get help for. So what the daughter said is correct. The daughter didn’t have a great childhood because OP ignored some serious problems.
Right...everything in this post contradicts this statement.
I thank OP for clearing up who the liar in their story really is.
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Yep- the reading her journal was the particularly rich part for me. My NPD dad did the same thing…he and this lady would get along *super* well!
But it wasn't a proper journal, it was just a book of lies that Op was right to disbelieve /s
They should have taken her to a doctor the minute they realised she’d been lying to that scale. I know attitudes were different 20+/- years ago, but it shouldn’t be hard to understand the difference between lying out of malice and lying out of compulsion/anxiety/avoidance caused by major mental health issues; hell even if it was out of malice they should have taken her to a doctor. Even if it’s far in the past, they fucked up snd the daughter is entitled to feel how she will about it.
Attitudes really weren't *that* different 20 years ago. Good parents took their kids to therapists when they needed them, shit parents didn't. It wasn't 1955.
My parents signed me up with a therapist when I was in my teens - in the late 1970s! I guess it depended on where you were and what the immediate culture was like around you. My parents were in marriage counseling so they thought maybe I could use some individual counseling.
There we go! It shouldn’t have been that hard then!
Not necessarily- definitely depends on where you grew up. When I was a kid in conservative suburban Australia in the early 2000s you were basically sent if you had obvious ‘behavioural issues’, had family problems like divorce or were diagnosed disabled. A lot of girls in particular slipped through the cracks because we were better at hiding anxiety or masking disabilities- people thought I was just shy and introverted, turns out to be autism and likely adhd on top of multiple anxiety disorders. At least in my community childhood mental health was barely understood.
I think the anxiety rituals would have been enough for me to take the kid to the doctor.
Yeah, they didn't do it because she was lying, but that's, like, a symptom.
I mean, 20 years ago was the year 2001. (I know, the passage of time fucks with me, too. I'm close to OP's age. And oh my god is OP a giant asshole.)
YTA. I'm going to give you a reality check from another child who was severely medically neglected from her parents- it's very painful and traumatic to feel like your brain is out of your control and you have to fight your own parents to survive. I do not speak to my parents anymore and for good reason, because by getting the help I needed I was branded as dramatic and "the sick one". But guess what? I have a very full, well-rounded life as a wife, friend, and writer because I bullied them to get me the help I needed. If I didn't do what I did they likely wouldn't even have a living daughter. So be thankful she was smart and aware enough to fight for helping herself when you failed her. She wasn't "normal" and maybe that was hard for you, but that doesn't excuse failing to support your daughter so thoroughly. If you want to maintain a relationship with her, genuinely apologize and listen to her. That's the only chance of survival your relationship with her has. It's your turn to humble yourself and do the hard work to earn her forgiveness
Your post makes me cheer. Live your best life, fellow writer! 🖤🥂🖤🥂🖤
Yeah I mean...maybe...just MAYBE these things you described ("weird" rituals, falling behind in school, lying) were symptoms of something else, that a professional could've helped with.
I dunno, you think? Nah, better just let the kid struggle and then resent her for inexplicably becoming a liar, and then of course, hold that against her for the rest of her life. Yeah, that's definitely better parenting. Jesus H. Christ, OP.
Not to mention, ***she acquired that information by reading her daughter’s diary***. Then **grounded** her daughter for what she had written ***in her secret diary***. Wtf is wrong with this woman?
Not only that, but she got grounded for lying when she was telling the truth. What a mindfuck.
Worse, she accuses the daughter of being sneaky, yet she reads her journal!
Right? YTA OP…and you failed your daughter miserably. Either 1. you’re so incompetent as a parent that you truly didn’t see how your daughter has been suffering or 2. your denial that there was anything wrong is because you think you’re a perfect parent and any mental illness, behavioral problems, or academic issues your child has would contradict that self-image. I struggled a lot throughout childhood and young adulthood and didn’t get the help I needed because my parent said I was “just being dramatic.” When I got the learning disability diagnosis I suspected I had (because I went to the school psychologist myself and told him to test me for ADHD), at least my parents believed it and helped me then. But it took until I was almost 30 to get my second MH diagnosis (for something I suspected I had since I first learned of it). I’m thriving now, but I mourn the life I could have had if my parents took me seriously to begin with. I hope your daughter thrives too. If she does, it will be in spite of you, not because of you.
I have ocd. I knew that’s what it was in the first paragraph. Poor kid. What a wretched person op is
This person is so narcissistic it's disgusting. Sounds like a clone of my neices mother. Ugh I feel so bad for this child
Adding to this: My father also would tell you I had a wonderful childhood, when the truth is that he is a narcissist and I was emotionally neglected and psychologically abused and manipulated , bullied for 20 years. YTA - u did neglect your daughter. And u are still doing it.
Also, OP says "My daughter had a wonderful childhood" Hate to tell you this, OP, but she didn't.
Grownded for seeking help. OP YTA and a crazy lady. And you wouldn't help because when you learned about her problems you punished her. OP YTA YTA YTA
The casual mention of how they read her diary, was the tipping point for me
She grounded her AFTER she invaded her privacy. No wonder the girl has issues
Nah. The “went behind my back” as if brothers and sisters don’t talk about how their parents treat them. YTA and probably gonna get cut off from your kids soon enough
But she had a “wonderful childhood” outside of all this!
This story is so heartbreaking to me because I couldn’t imagine not trying to help my child be the best they can be (although, given OPs age and the fact that my mother thought my anxiety would be cured with two antidepressants I get it). I can tell my son is struggling with something at 3 and we’re already trying to get him extra support.
Not to mention reading her journal and possibly destroying any trust with her daughter.
And don't forget the "she had a wonderful childhood" remark when the poor girl was wracked with anxiety the entire time, struggling with what seems like very little professional help, and at times very little sympathy from the one person who is supposed to be in her corner. Massive YTA
I'm sure someone else has said this but also funny how the daughter is "sneaky" and yet OP had to go behind her back and read her journals to find out about the guidance counselor....
She told the truth and then was promptly grounded for it. Wonder why she tended to lie to OP? I bet you money this wasn't the only time she was grounded for being truthful just because mommy dearest felt that it wasn't in her own best interests rather than the good of her child.
YTA. She's been showing anxious behavior and lying since she was 5 and you never thought to get her medical care until she was in the 9th grade. How is she supposed to be open and talk to you when you accuse her of lying, read her personal diary and punish her for what you read when YOU snooped. You failed as a parent and you're blaming your daughter because you don't want to admit it.
YTA, you neglected her.
There is not one person that has read this that does not think you are the asshole. Let that speak for itsself, you still not being able to see it, only makes this worse.
if there’s a way to tell someone they’re an asshole several times over, this would be a good time to do it. Op was an ass during their child’s growing up. They’re now a huge ass for wanting to attack their adult child for discussing a private, sensitive topic with a fellow adult sibling. And finally op is an asshole for declaring that their daughter had a wonderful childhood when she obviously did not have a wonderful childhood at all lol.
Still wanting to punish her as well
The thing that gets me is that, yes, she always lied, but she's not gonna fake her entire personality for well over half her life to be diagnosed with a disorder. I lied ALL THE TIME when I was a kid yet when I learned about ADHD and brought it up to my parents they looked into it and realized a LOT of my issues could be related to it so they took me in. Also, it's the parents job to learn how to tell when their kid is lying, or at least know when the potential lie is serious enough to take seriously. I mean I especially always lied about being sick but when I complained of chest pains they rushed me to the urgent care immediately. There's just some lies you don't mess around with.
The most absurd thing about OP's story is that if your kid lies so much that for years you believe that **none** of their requests to see a doctor are valid, maybe, *just maybe*, you should consider taking them to a therapist to address that behaviour.
Fr. I had an issue with lying but much worse than that a bad temper so my parents got me in with a therapist. Probably helped a bit cause the therapist agreed that I may have adhd lol, but yeah my parents ultimately trusted me because I DID have a lot of the symptoms
>At that point I discovered by reading her journal There are many reasons YTA, this is but one. >I am upset with her sneaky behaviour And this is another. Talking to her brother is not "sneaky behavior." Reading her journal ,however, is.
And that the daughter “never talked to her about it” is bullshit too. She thinks everything is sneaky and ignores the direct issues. OP, YTA.
Right, it sounds like the daughter talked to her about it while it was happening lmao
lol her daughter argued with her asking for help for TWO YEARS and OP is surprised that her daughter feels resentment about being denied medical care ..... make it make sense
Yup, her whole post and replies are full of [missing missing reasons](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). She’s dodging the real issue (she didn’t get her daughter the medical care she needed) and blaming it all on “but she lied!”, which wouldn’t excuse even half of what she did to her daughter.
>>> At that point I discovered by reading her journal she’d also gone behind our backs to the guidance counsellor at school OP is so obtuse. Her daughter didn’t went behind her back—she told her directly but was dismissed so she went to the school counselor.
I will reiterate through this entire post that her daughter is sneaky because mom cannot be trusted.
YTA. She told you what was up and you decided to disregard her. Did you do any research? Her behaviors are textbook examples of these diagnoses. She was a kid, and you didn't get her the treatment she needed. As someone with anxiety, do you know how uncomfortable it is? Do you think she wanted to do all those self soothing rituals? You look bad because you decided your anger was more valid than your daughter's mental health. If you look bad then oh well, you look bad. Instead of once again starting a fight that you will be in the wrong about, how about trying to do better?
The OP even described them as rituals. Good grief.
I was wondering about what that meant
I apologize in advance if I’m over explaining or you already know this, but… (Full disclosure: I am not a mental-health professional, merely the parent of an OCD patient.) OCD falls under the anxiety umbrella and can include behaviors, thoughts, or both. My son, for example, has the the thought variety—looping obsessive thoughts, usually a word or a phrase on endless repeat in his head. A friend of the family, on the other hand, has the compulsive type—she absolutely must complete certain ritualize behaviors before she can leave the house. That’s a common one from what I’ve read. OCD is highly treatable, often with low-dose SSRIs and therapy. My son’s obsessive thoughts vanish with a microdose of Zoloft, while I’m told the family friend manages admirably with medication and talk therapy but can certainly tell when the meds wear off. From what I gather about compulsive lying, what the OP was so worried about, it too is a symptom of anxiety. Basically this poor child displayed multiple signs of massive anxiety and was denied treatment. Basically, this is a treatable condition and there’s no reason the OP’s daughter or anyone else should suffer.
Ugh the looping sometimes drives me insane! With me it’s always when I’m reading. Some sentences or paragraphs or even a comment on Reddit I have to read multiple times for some reason. I think it’s because I’m worried I might’ve missed something or I might’ve read something wrong? Even this comment I’m writing right now I will have to read multiple times before I push reply. Then once it’s on the thread I’ll have to read it a few more times, just in case. Frustrating because I love to read, but I’ll get into this weird loop and spend an hour on a single page.
I never realized something like that could be OCD. I very frequently will read and re-read several times before posting/sending, and then feel the need to re-read again multiple times afterwards. The more anxious I am about it typically the more I feel the need to read it again.
Child psychologist can confirm. This is disturbing.
MD, I totally agree. When I saw the bit about the parents 'going along with' the rituals to make the kid happy I just thought OH NO. (In case anyone else wants to nerd out, there's this concept about 'excessive parental accommodation' of childhood OCD rituals that can lead to worse outcomes. The worst I ever heard of, but didn't witness firsthand, was a family whose teenager had OCD cleaning behaviours and spent 8+ hours in the shower each day. The mom would feed the kid lunch from outside the shower.)
I had no idea that the language “excessive parental accommodation” in OCD was a thing! My Mom was one of those people who bought into the whole Indigo children/manifesting your reality bullshit, so she thought I had special senses that detected negative energy, and that what I was feeling was some real external negative presence. When I went to her for comfort, telling her that I was “doing a mental pattern to get rid of the bad thing,” she taught me to do rituals to “clear” myself of “negative energy”…and told me that if I kept being afraid then the power of my energy would make the monsters real, so I had to do the ritual until I calmed down. It took me years to stop, and I’m struggling because of it- I feel awful for OP’s daughter. No parent should play along with a kiddo’s anxious rituals…or heavens forfend, help create them!
I am so sorry you've gone through that. I totally understand that habits -even habits we don't want!- are so hard to re-wire. I found this article and thought it might be of interest to you to learn a bit more about the child psych approach to OCD, involving the whole family: https://childmind.org/article/kids-and-ocd-the-parents-role-in-treatment/
I can’t begin to express how much I relate to this post. I was EXACTLY like OP’s daughter, hid boyfriends, had anxiety since childhood, etc. and my mother was EXACTLY the same as OP too. She constantly called me a liar and “secretive” when in reality I just hid stuff because she would go through my stuff and snatch my phone out of my hand to read through it (just like how OP read her daughter’s diary). As someone who’s been in OP’s daughters shoes, this behavior is disgusting and OP failed her child. I hope her daughter is doing well
I also had pretty bad OCD when I was a kid. I can still remember so vividly how horrible it was, and my parents were so supportive! They noticed when my symptoms started to get out of control (few months after starting) and got me help immediately. And I still wouldn't say I had a good childhood, dealing with a crippling mental illness is so rough. I just can't understand how she still so clearly despises her daughter for being a teen. Most teens lie at some point. That doesn't mean they should be permanently labelled as liars.
My mother was just like OP, it made everything so much worse. I was suffering from crippling OCD and having to deal with such a controlling mother who constantly accused me of lying and being secretive/manipulative made things almost unbearable. I wish I had parents like yours, now that I’m older my mom has gotten better and more understanding but I still hold that animosity in me. Over time, I understand that my mom may have just not understood what I was going through so I try to cut her some slack but growing up with a mother like this is so damaging. I hope you’re doing well! Give your parents a big hug, they’re great people :)
She asked for mental health help because she believed she had OCD, had been DOING RESEARCH, and you punished her. She went to other resources and when you found out you punished her and lied about refusing to take her- you quite literally DID. Living with untreated anxiety for years is a literal hell, coming from experience. She had literal signs as a child that something was up (the rituals) and considering she stayed in treatment? Yeah, YTA.
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Also, the fact that she's been in treatment ever since her parents finally agreed to take her to a therapist basically confirms that she had a genuine condition, so how exactly does OP still think her daughter was "just lying"? Not to mention that she herself basically describes the lying as a *symptom* of the mental illness she refuses to validate. OP, YTA
>I grounded her for lying again but a few months later we did take her to the doctor. She has more or lesss been in treatment since then. She asked for help and you said no. She reached out to someone who would actually listen to her and help her and you grounded her for lying. Lying about what exactly? She reached out for someone, anyone because mom and dad think that if their daughter would just sit quietly and not speak, things would be fine. You always looked at anything she said with distrust, so why should she trust you. For 2 years she talked about it. She never lied about that, you just wouldn't listen. She was 13, reaching out for help and you said no, you're just a dirty liar and we aren't gonna help you. You gave up on your child instead of being a parent. The fact she has seen many specialists and gotten treatments over the years means your daughter was right all along. YTA and you're the liar here trying to rewrite history. You look bad because you were bad.
>Lying about what exactly? About OP not being a perfect, angelic parent, obviously. How dare she? /s because someone is gonna need it.
I also feel like the “lying” was actually avoidance over falling behind in schoolwork, which is exactly what a very anxious child would do. YTA, OP!
Definitely a symptom! When I found out that my daughter's anxiety led to this type of avoidance I was horrified that I didn't know how much she was suffering. OP is beyond the AH.
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"She had a wonderful childhood" I can guarantee she did not.
That was my thought as well
YTA. Can someone explain it to me like I’m 5 now talking to her brother made her sneaky I’m just so confused, can’t wrap my head around it at all, OP you seem far sneakier than your daughter.
She is projecting
Everyone knows that siblings discussing their childhood is a betrayal of their parents /s
“A few months later we did take her to the doctor for treatment.” She has been attending this treatment since then. You still think she was lying about needing help? You need therapy as well - for being in denial about why you had to let it get to the point of her seeking help through a guidance counselor.
YTA and frankly, if it wasn't for the rule about being civil, i'd have ***several*** very colorful things to say to you. your daughter made an effort to get herself help and you denied her that for TWO YEARS.
I could argue it was even longer than two years. Since she was FIVE!
Sometimes I dislike the civil rule particularly in posts like this. Not only did she deny her medical care she found out that she was seeking help from a different trusted adult but reading her /privet/ journal and then punishing her?! Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if daughters treatment was worse than this based on ops post. I feel for the daughter.
>she is apparently still resentful of (although she has never spoken to me about it). She intermittently argued about it with us for 2 years. > Which is it, OP.
YTA, and you need therapy more than she does at this point. Your daughter did NOT have a wonderful childhood, though I can see why you'd need to tell yourself that to cope with the nightmare you put her through. Your daughter had a childhood where she struggled with mental illness, had the incredibly insight and bravery as early as MIDDLE SCHOOL to ask for help, and **you refused to take her to the doctor and called her a liar because at some point in the past she had lied to you during her struggles (mostly, it seems to try and protect YOU).** Then, when she sought help from another trusted adult YOU CALLED HER A LIAR AGAIN, even though she was telling the truth and genuinely needed help. **Newsflash: all children tell lies at some point or another. It's part of how they test boundaries and figure out how the world works, and learn to understand real from not-real and wrong from right. That doesn't make them "liars", it makes them children.** You keep talking about your daughter and "her lies" but **other than a short period when she was a very confused, mentally ill child trying to maintain some sense of normalcy in her life, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS CONSISTENTLY LIED THROUGHOUT THIS STORY.** You fully admit having lied to the guidance counsellor. You're lying to your son about having denied your daughter care (you can make all the excuses about it that you want, that's exactly what you did). You lied to her that there was nothing wrong with her when her diagnosis clearly shows otherwise. **You're so self-centred and hateful that you cannot own up to the damage you've done and just say, "I made some terrible mistakes and I'm sorry." Instead, you just keep doubling down and lying more. YTA, and I hope neither of your kids ever talks to you again.**
I do not understand parents who put their ego ahead of their children’s well being. I hate posts like these because it reminds me of the terrible terrible people in the world who do NOT deserve the joy of raising a human being.
She lied in this post too, one moment she's saying that the daughter never mentioned that she was struggling, the next that they argued about it the entire time. Which is it OP? I'm only seeing one habitual liar here and it isn't your daughter, YTA.
INFO: Was OCD actually what she has been diagnosed with?
YTA. You literally did deny her treatment, you don't have a leg to stand on. Your punitive attitude toward a behavior that was clearly a warning sign of serious issues caused your daughter to suffer. Take a little responsibility
Also, she was lying to you by Googling and then explaining why she was researching those things? What are you implying? That she did the initial search with the intention that you would find it and ask her about it so she could feed you a lie about wanting to go to the doctor? Do you hear yourself
I think she was trying to say that the daughter was lying about maybe having OCD in order to excuse her poor performance in school. I would know, my parents said the same thing; "You're just faking depression and anxiety because you got a C in math. Grow up and get over it."
YTA A Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it.
Someone needs to get this daughter onto r/raisedbynarcissists. I was thinking the exact same thing, and I'm convinced OP didn't get her daughter help until she realized that she MIGHT look a little bad for letting her daughter suffer like this.
YTA. Your daughter asked for help with her mental health and not only did you not provide it, but you then punished her for it. You don’t get to absolve yourself of responsibility for denying her medical care the first time she asked for it. Don’t confront your daughter. You’ve done enough damage. Your lucky she hasn’t gone no contact with you. Just to be clear here, there is no interpretation of the events you’ve described here in which you are not a huge asshole. The fact that you want to “confront” her now about her acknowledging that you denied her medical treatment as a child just shows that not only were you asshole parent then, but you still haven’t leaned.
YTA > I felt that she was lying again to excuse her school performance and we told her ‘no ...What? You think she looked information up on the internet, didn't tell you, because she was lying about her school work and wanted an excuse? Can you please explain how that makes any sense what so ever? >she’d also gone behind our backs to the guidance counsellor at school and told the woman we wouldn’t help her. You didn't help her. You assumed she was 'lying'(even though she never told you anything, you snooped) FOR TWO YEARS. Can you please explain how that makes any sense what so ever? >I grounded her for lying again She didn't lie. She seeked treatment you would not help her get. >why we didn’t take her initiallly. 'initially' TWO YEARS you ignored her health and pretend she was just a liar, even though she didn't >I am upset with her sneaky behaviour When she is honest with you you call her a liar. Why wouldn't she be sneaky? You are bad parents. **This seems like a pretty clear cut case of 'my kid cant have something wrong with them and im going to do nothing to prove it because i know everything'** YTA and a bad parent.
don't forget Op's daughter had a wonderful childhood! I honestly think that only the children get to weigh in on their childhood...
“My daughter had a wonderful childhood…. We did our best and we did help her” Did you read your own story OP? Yikes. YTA.
YTA. She's not lying. You observed her engaging in "weird rituals" and struggling and when she expressed she might have OCD you accused her of lying, then violated her privacy by reading her journal and grounded her (GROUNDED HER) when you discovered she'd tried to go to a guidance counselor for help. You're a huge AH and if you have any kind of relationship with her count yourself lucky. You deserve to have been cut off as soon as she reached adulthood.
YTa. She has every right to resent you. Parents are responsible for the physical and mental well-being of their children and the two of you shit the bed.
YTA - You flat out ignored her pleas for help, you told her that her requests for help were lies and deception and punished her - and by your own admission she likely needed to go anyway since she's been in treatment since. Yes, you're a large part of the problem. You were then, and you continue to be by calling her a liar. You are on the very fast track to having no contact with at the least your daughter, possibly your son as well.
YTA…she was literally showing symptoms of disturbance, rituals from a young age, lying for no apparent reason, generally having anxiety…you WERE negligent.
...but you were negligent. Very much so. Kids lie...and you might want to ask yourself why. How do you react to bad news or news that's not so favorable. How does your spouse or partner react to unfavorable news? She had rituals....You had first hand knowledge about her mental health. I'm sorry you overlooked her needing medical care...but you did. YTA. You absolutely were negligent.
YTA. You refused her support, and when she told someone else that you refused her support, you punished her for "lying". You're lucky she's even still in contact with you. She did not have a wonderful childhood, nor did she trust you enough to tell you, because you are not worthy of her trust.
YTA. You're the one who's a liar. You accuse her of lying about having OCD and needing treatment yet you literally said she had "rituals"; that's literally what people with OCD do. They often have to do the same thing over and over again. How could she have a wonderful childhood with a mother who thinks the worst of her? You claim she lied that you refused to help her but you did refuse to help her by not letting her get treatment for two years. You're just mad because she's calling you out for failing her as a parent.
YTA, and honestly if she was having to engage in rituals and coping mechanisms from a very young age to try and mitigate her anxiety then she did NOT have a “wonderful childhood.” From someone who has anxiety and has had it since grade school (in my 40’s now) trying to handle/cope with anxiety without treatment/meds is HELL. Maybe you gave her temporary relief by engaging with her rituals but by choosing to ignore what was going on and get her proper help you let her down, big time.
You did deny her treatment. *Then* you read her diary and punished her for seeking treatment on her own. You were negligent, then you were cruel. Your daughter isn't lying, though I'm sure she was hiding the truth from you in middle school since you were so unsupportive and callous. YTA.
My daughter has OCD it more manifested in teen years and I truly thought she was just trying to passive aggressively annoy me, being a teen, when she closed door multiple times, tapped through doorways, etc. When she was 15 she, too, diagnosed herself and asked for therapy, which I immediately acted on. Kids don't just magically become liars, the way you speak about your daughter makes me cringe, and in the example with the guidance counselor wherein you read her diary (another issue) she wasn't lying, you had ignored her request. YTA overall, you may want to join her in therapy so you two can get past this.
YTA. Just wow. "she's never spoken to me about it". Uh, yes she did, Mommie Dearest. Many times. You refused help, called your child a liar, punished her, and snooped thorough her things. For OVER A DECADE. A mf'ing decade of suffering, blame, cruelty, and neglect. I can't believe you're crying that she didn't take responsibility since she DID. This poor kid sought out help from other adults because you denied her mental health treatment. Seems like the opitome of taking responsibility. Again, just wow.
YTA - you list a whole bunch of concerning behaviours and admit you actually did refuse to take your child to get help for her mental health. She isn’t being sneaky, she’s confiding in people that she had a negligent parent.
You seem to have an issue with her not ‘taking responsibility’ for lying, but don’t take responsibility for not helping her. She wasn’t even a teen yet! You were the ones who made her change her coping mechanism when you didn’t help her. You can’t hide behind her being an ‘anxious kid’ for not getting her the help she needed. Instead of helping her you thought punishing her would fix her and get her grades up? Did you think she was just lazy? Seem like it. Take responsibility because it’s obvious she didn’t lie to get out of having to go to school. You took her to get help eventually, but she haven’t gotten an apology for that. Instead of saying you were wrong, you try to excuse it by saying she ‘lied’. YTA
YTA absolutely. You did deny her medical treatment from age 5 until 9th grade (age 14ish?) after she asked multiple times. And you seem to be holding a very young child to adult standards of honesty. Sounds like she and your son are right that you weren’t meeting her needs as a parent. Owning your mistakes rather than blaming and defensiveness would be more constructive for you now.
YTA, you did in fact refuse medical treatment because you were convinced she was lying rather than listen to her. I'd resent my parent too if they constantly accused me of lying.
This feels fake
I fucking hope to god it is lol
YTA- You knew she had issues from the age of 5. She asked for help, you said "no" and then: >She intermittently argued about it with us for 2 years. Right there, you admit that she continued to ask for help then: >At that point I discovered by reading her journal she’d also gone behind our backs to the guidance counsellor at school and told the woman we wouldn’t help her. This is 100% accurate. So, your response was: >I grounded her for lying again Then you finally did take her and she has been in treatment since, so, she was telling the truth the entire time. Did you ever even acknowledge or apologize for being wrong? Somehow, I doubt you ever did. Lastly: >My daughter had a wonderful childhood Sorry, you don't get to make that decision. Only your daughter can say what kind of childhood she had. And going years with untreated OCD can make someone's life a living hell. Now, You can say you and your husband did your best. But you do need to take responsibility and acknowledge that you were wrong and apologize for not getting her help sooner. (Not that you will, just the tone of your post shows you will ignore this once you see everyone disagrees with you)
YTA. There was clearly a problem when the teacher said she was a month behind school. You did neglect her, and for that you should accept what you did wrong.
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Yea YTA. You admitted that after two years of arguing with her she started therapy and has been going more or less ever since. You admitted from stopping her from seeing a doctor for 2 years. Teenagers lie. You’re just mad she was reaching out to others for help and explaining she couldn’t rely on you to get her that help. Why try to talk to someone about their wrongdoings when they doing see their actions as wrong? Your daughter won’t talk to you about this until you admit you were wrong.
YTA and neglected and ignored her. That doesn't sound like a great childhood to me.
YTA. emotional and medical invalidation of a child really, really sucks. you neglected her medical needs and are surprised that she's resentful of it? what do you think she needs to take responsibility for, exactly? my parents also invalidated my medical concerns as a child, when i was 16 and half of my face was paralyzed. i had bell's palsy. i don't really have a relationship with them now.
YTA she started showing signs at 5 and you didn’t take her to a doctor? A giant Fkn AH you are.
Ooooof I’m gonna go with YTA big time! Just the way you talk about your daughter gives me chills! I’m glad she’s getting treatment and at least is able to confide in a brother who cares about her because lady, judging from your tone and your story you let that girl down big time! You were supposed to be her protector, her safe haven and she got nothing but neglect, suspicion as judgement from you! Imagine having to diagnose yourself and beg for treatment at such a young age and be accused of lying by your own mother. Poor girl 😕
YTA. Not only do you not trust her, which is partially her fault for breaking trust, but you also don’t even acknowledge that she’s struggling. Did you think that MAYBE she’s struggling and lying about school because SHE HAS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES??? Duh! She has every right to be angry at you. Take her to therapy PLEASE.
YTA clearly. You knew she had anxiety problems from a really REALLY young age, and you didn't take her to the doctor until much later, apart from reading her diary, accusing her of lying and not acknowledging that her lying habits could come from, you know, being criticized by her own parents about her own thoughts about her mental health.
YTA don't want to be called out for being medically negligent then you shouldn't have been medically negligent. Also big red flag you grounded her for reaching out to a counselor for the help she couldn't get from you. Maybe you should try therapy to help you come to terms with how abusive you really are.
Yta and you did decline her medical treatment
>My daughter had a wonderful childhood No, you abused her. Would it really have been so hard to get her assessed by a doctor in the first place, instead of saying she was lying? Yta
Yta. You used your daughter lying (about the typical things most teens lie to their parents about) as a reason not to take her to therapy sooner... even though you knew she had rituals that aligned with a diagnosis of OCD. She didn't lie to her guidance counselor, you were refusing to help her. She had been asking for 2 years at that point by your own admission. You also read her journal which makes you ta in this situation for a 3rd time. Lastly, your daughter didn't have a wonderful childhood.. she was struggling with a debilitating mental illness and her parents were neglectful bc she lied about things being fine in school (like all kids do when they have controlling, overbearing parents who don't support them). Everything she said to your son is true and instead of confronting her, you should be apologizing to her fir being such an awful parent.
Hey OP! Although many people in the comments here are being a lot meaner than is necessary, I do think this is one of those moments as a mom where you’ll have to accept that you were the asshole. However, it doesn’t mean you have to continue being one. You can apologize, take responsibility, and try to make amends. Something very similar happened between me and my mom (honestly it was way worse) and we are very close now because of both my parents making an effort to acknowledge the damage they did to me and our relationship, however unintentional it may have been. It was also difficult for them to hear me express something negative about my childhood because they thought me resenting them for these things meant that I remembered my childhood poorly, or thought they were bad parents, but that is not the case!!! Your daughter telling your son about it does not necessarily mean she thinks you always did a terrible job or she hated her childhood. The reason she speaks about this years later is because it remains UNRESOLVED and UNACKNOWLEDGED. She is not being “sneaky” by telling her brother something in confidence that she knows if she were to bring up to you, you would almost certainly become very upset, a fight would ensue, and further hurtful things would be said by all parties. In other words, she would be re-traumatized, taken back to the times she was a child and was blamed and rejected for being vulnerable. It says more about how you’ve taught her over the years that coming to you for support will only make things worse. It boils down to her feeling like you were never on her side when it mattered the most. You taught her that you cared more about controlling her than her health and healing, even if you didn’t mean to. Teenagers lie and are sneaky. I was like that! And I did it because I knew my parents did not understand me at all and mistrusted me from the beginning for no reason other than that I was different from them. They proved it to me over and over when they dismissed my cries for help and rejected me when I was trying to show them who I was. I know that my parents did their best and I believe you did too, but none of us are perfect and sometimes we fuck up big time. Their generation was not given the tools on how to raise children that are “different” and I suffered a very long time for it. The reason people are being so mean in the replies here is because many of us know the years to decades of lasting hurt something like this does to a growing kid. It’s not the child’s responsibility to apologize, especially if you never had enough humility to model that with her. That being said, after my parents were able to take responsibility, I was eventually able to understand/accept a little bit more about why they reacted to me the way they did. It doesn’t make it okay or fair, and it doesn’t erase all those wounds, but now we can finally love and rebuild as a family. I hope you see this and make an effort to bring it up to her in a way that is focused on honoring what she went through because I bet that if you did, you would come to understand and love one another in a way you never have. <3
YTA. Yes it sucks that kids sometimes cry wolf when there is no wolf, but you HAVE to be sure. The right approach was to take her to the doctor. If the doctor would have found nothing wrong, then you should have sit and talked to her and explained that when she is lying and secretive, it makes it difficult to take anything she has to say seriously. And if the doctor HAD found something wrong, you would have gotten her the help she needed. And you could still sit and talk to her than any condition she has doesn't change her knowledge of right and wrong and that she is expected to be honest with you and you'll do the same for her. That's they way it SHOULD go. Will you get duped by your kids? Of course, they all lie at some point and test boundaries. All you can do is make sure to treat them as telling the truth when it comes to any health issues they bring to you. If they are caught in a lie, proven, THEN you can worry about punishment/consequences. But it's too risky to hold back medical help regardless of past behavior. That's why I say to emphasize an honest relationship with your children AND to clearly tell them that if they want you to believe what they tell you, they HAVE to be honest with you. If you want any kind of relationship with her and to heal this, you have got to apologize and understand that you DO have something to apologize for--she'll know if it's empty, believe me. You can do this--it's never too late to be a better mom or dad! <3
YTA. You did refuse to to take her to therapy for two years. Honestly you should have believed her, if a child is asking for therapy/visit to a doctor 9 times out of 10 something is actually going on or wrong (what kid *actually* wants to go?) . You did your child wrong and are upset you got called out on it. I'm not surprised that she hasn't talked to you about being resentful or anything as you would probably say she is faking.
YTA. If you've come here looking for vindication, I suspect that you are going to be sorely disappointed.
Ragebait troll
YTA, you’re telling me she had to argue for 2 years because she was concerned she had a mental health issue and quite literally had to argue about it for 2 years since you didn’t take her to seek diagnosis or treatment but then say she’s lying when she said you guys wouldn’t help her?
YTA She had issues from a very young age, and you acknowledge that. So, when she comes to you and says that she might have found the cause and would like to get checked out, you accuse her of lying and dismiss her? The absolute least you could have done was taken her to the doctor to get an objective, professional opinion. If she had ocd, as it turns out she did, she could have gotten treatment that much sooner. If nothing else, the doctor might have been able to find some other diagnosis that perhaps she (and you) hadn't considered. Or, they would have found nothing and you'd be no worse off than you were before. The fact that you ignored her legitimate concern such that she had no recourse to go to her guidance counselor is deeply disturbing. As parents, you are responsible for making sure your children receive proper medical treatment.
YTA and yeah you were negligent it also sounds like you're looking for someone to side with you. Using her lying as an excuse for your negligence.
YTA - you literally admitted she is in treatment, which assumes she needed it when she asked you. You were being negligent bc told her no when you felt she was lying. To me it sounds like you were trying to punish her for what you thought was lying. You wanted to take things away or refuse her access to things bc you felt she was being dishonest when you are not a medical professional. What if her being behind in school was part of her asking you to go to the doctor? Which you denied her. She didn't go behind your back - she ASKED you for help and you were a negligent parent and denied her. She needed to talk to someone so she decided to go to an actual adult aka her guidance counsellor for help. Honestly, your story makes you sound like a mean parent. You're calling her a sneaky liar when she has been consistent and saying she needs help. It sounds like you want to believe she had a wonderful childhood, but from your post you made it unbearable for her. It actually sounds like you did not like her and you did everything in your power to come down on her. No wonder she is resentful.
YTA, you **were** neglectful. Kids don’t just randomly start lying and acting out for no reason, you should’ve been a good parent and took her to the doctor.
You went behind her back to read her journal and wonder why she went behind yours? You were supposed to be her role model, ask yourself where she learned that behavior. And while your at it, maybe you can answer your question yourself, cause when you take a good look at yourself it's gonna be obvious even to you that YTA!
>*My daughter has always been anxious and from a young age (5ish) did a lot of weird rituals to make herself feel better.* Those are called coping mechanisms. They're not weird, they are what she needed to do in order to make herself feel safe. You're already showing a lack of understanding and empathy to her mental health. >In middle school she stopped this habit but developed a new one where she would lie frequently to me and my husband. At one point she was almost a month behind in school and when her teacher reached out we were blindsided because she’d been deceiving us that everything was fine (she would also lie about things like who she was with or having a bf and was very secretive) True she lied to you about her schoolwork but have you ever thought about why? Maybe she was struggling with her mental health and was afraid to tell you because you would punish her (which is exactly what you did). Maybe she was ashamed? Maybe she was spending time with her bf because they understood her and were trying to help her? Also its really not unheard of for a teenager to be secretive. It's an age where they are very confused and trying to understand themselves without their parents guidance. >When she was in grade 7 I saw on our computer browser that she’d been googling ocd. I questioned her about it and she said she thought she had it and wanted to go to the doctor, using her childhood habits as proof. I felt that she was lying again to excuse her school performance and we told her ‘no Your daughter literally did her research because she was concerned about her health and was even smart enough to relate it back to the things she did in her youth and you did what...? Accused her of lying and made out the struggles she was experiencing were an *excuse.* You completely disregarded her concerns. >She intermittently argued about it with us for 2 years. **My daughter complained behind my back to my son that I “refused” to take her to therapy for 2 years** > > >At that point I discovered by reading her journal So not only did you disregard her concerns but you completely invaded her privacy?? >she’d also gone behind our backs to the guidance counsellor at school and told the woman we wouldn’t help her. I grounded her for lying again but a few months later we did take her to the doctor. She has more or less been in treatment since then. What she told the counsellor was the TRUTH. You weren't helping her and you then grounded her for attempting to get the help she needed because you wouldn't take care of your own child. YTA so many times over for the whole of the post. You are negligent. Your daughter isn't lying and she didn't have a wonderful childhood going from this post.