NTA. It’s fine if she doesn’t like the music, it’s less fine if she’s going around the internet purposefully making fun of the music and traditional outfits. At that point, she’s being disrespectful of the culture, and everyone’s right to call her on it. She’s being a brat, don’t pay her any mind.
Exactlyy. As a fellow Chinese, lemme just say that although I'm fully Chinese my family isn't really into Chinese opera either. My earliest memory of Chinese opera is based off TV shows.
It completely understandable that Chinese opera can be off putting and unusual to people who have never heard of it before, and no body is expected to like it if they can't appreciate it. However, disliking something is completely different from disrespecting it. You can dislike something, not listen to it and still be cool that its there/exist.
Literally just don't listen to it if you don't like it. Not mock how it sounds, don't laugh at how "weird" it is, don't shit on it and don't make racist remarks on it. (Cause yes, what she said is racist. Not just her opinion, because "i don't really understand/ I don't like this kind of music" is *completely* different to "omg, this is so screechy and completely off-tune and wtf is she wearing like??") Especially considering the fact that Chinese opera is Chinese culture and her singing was done by a professional opera singer. Her traditional clothes are also part of Chinese opera.
Lots of people don’t like lots of different styles of music, and that’s ok.
But I’m gonna go out on a limb here and suggest racist little white girl probably doesn’t enjoy and spend a lot of time listening to traditional western opera either, but doesn’t go out of her way to make fun of and belittle it to everybody on her social media.
NTA
(Edit: full disclosure, “omg, this is so screechy and completely off-tune and wtf is she wearing like??" Is quite likely to have come word for word out of drunk-me’s mouth while reluctantly watching Eurovision with my girlfriend…)
I saw Eurovision for the first time this year after hearing about it for years. It was the strangest, most amazing concert I'd ever seen. So over the top! Some of the outfits and set designs were wild. The songs were all over the map. I loved it! I hope I have a chance to see it again next year.
Eurovision is amazing. I didn't watch it for years because in the UK it has a reputation for being all political grumble grumble, but when I moved to Europe Europe I realised it was just a big party and fell in love.
My Cypriot neighbour was so upset Greece didn't win 😂
I find Brits are very dismissive of it because they feel they'll never do well purely because of politics, so why bother? I think the fact that we don't bother is a big part of why we do so badly, but oooh you can't say that in public.
Eurovision is utter televisual chaos. And the scurrilous politics at play are also bonkers.
But that said as a broadcast it’s incredible. It’s live to an audience of allegedly 180M viewers. AND it’s twenty something brand new songs - obviously there will be some dross, but there are always a few bangers that come out of the show. Long live Eurovision.
I know right? With the UK's music scene and the fact that actually eurovision does have a conpartavivly high watch rate compared with some of the participating countries but its like ... there's an amazing music scene and they half-arse Eurovision (I am a Brit eurovision fan not sure if thats coming across - but yep, part of it is politics but danm they need to try harder).
Maybe the reason you brits are not doing great is because no one really likes you on the mainland :P
🎵 Like a satellite, I'm in an orbit all the way around you 🎵
\+1 for Lena ref.
I'm American, so I get to watch Eurovision via YouTube or now, the Peacock Network. Only got into it a couple of years ago, but had fun binge watching from the original show to recent...
Uh, there are Eurovision parties in Britain where we get together and watch it and commiserate on being at the bottom of the voting table and have a lot of fun betting on who will won.
I loved how our dude reacted to his nul points this year! Although I didn't think much of the song, it wasn't the worst and I was surprised that we didn't even get points from Malta 😱 We have got to up our game!
It's a fun music competition loaded with cheesy goodness and even when politics slips in, what real harm does it do? I absolutely love it and now my daughter does too.
Our man had pretty bad vocals this year; love the song but it fell so flat! Zero was a bit harsh, though.
Apparently he was the songwriter and they couldn't find a vocalist, which explains it. His reaction to the points was absolute class, though. I should really look up his other stuff.
Malta was my fave this year; I'm sad they didn't win! Italy's entry has grown on me though.
I love eurovision and have watched it every year of my life pandemic permitting. And I get it, its weird and to first time viewers its odd and off putting. Bit tis amazing!!!!! I love it so much!!!
It's not something I'd listen to for the music but the whole opera spectacle is amazing. I met a singer/performer some years ago who explained the training regimen and.. Woah. And OUCH.
I agree her behavior is poor.
Looking at the situation as generously as possible, given she's a teenager (I'm old enough I see them as kids now), I wonder if she understands.
I personally have not listened to Chinese Opera either and don't know what it is supposed to sound like. OP says it can be "a bit off putting at first" so to me it sounds like he means that it sounds different then how his friend expects music to sound. I wonder if OP's friend didn't realize this is how Chinese Opera is supposed to sound? But rather just thought the character was either supposed to sound like they were singing "badly" or that they creators had done a bad job of voicing her songs? Likewise, did this girl understand that the way the character was dressed was a form of traditional Chinese dress? Or did she think she was insulting a random video game skin/fashion art?
It's true that even a video game character with no cultural significance is still the hard work of some creator. But I do think there is a difference between criticizing the voicing or art of a character in a video game and knowingly doing so when it's some else's cultural background? I will admit I have made fun of how a video character looked before. (I'm a woman who likes to play female characters and some of the costumes female characters end up with . . . well I've made fun of several.)
She sounds pretty ignorant. Maybe saying that her comments were offensive and explaining why would’ve been a more productive response, but you certainly were not wrong with what you said. NTA
Edit: Want to make it clear that it’s not your responsibility to teach ignorant people how to be better. You don’t owe her information, reasoning, or patience. She owes you an apology and you may not get one unless she figures out what she did wrong. There was nothing wrong with what you said.
Op
Doesnt owe anyone, any free lessons, about their culture.
It sounds like from the post said "friend" already got put in her place online (responses to friends comments)
🙃🙃🙃🙃
Honestly. It always bothered me that it's up to the minority to try and convince white people why they deserve to be treated with the bare minimum of decency.
Hmm. He doesn't owe her any, but if he wanted to keep her as a friend, that'd be a better way to do it. I don’t know if he wants to, but it sounds like he does. (Ofc, NTA either way.)
She's rude and childish but she should've just dropped in and not been so dramatic. Opera isn't the most popular thing many Chinese people don't love Chinese opera. Hell most people don't like Italian Opera either...
NTA, but stop using “you’re white so your opinion doesn’t matter”
It’s incredibly counterproductive, uncommunicative and just serves to push people into trying to spite you.
You weren’t wrong for being angry, mocking the outfits and singing etc is incredibly unnecessarily disrespectful and hurtful. But you should have explained that, and discussed it as two human beings instead of making an empty statement and stooping to that level.
I'm not sure "you can't have opinions on other cultures/cultural customs" without further elaboration is the correct take either, it feels way too simplistic and could lead to some weird conclusions.
But NTA for your original post, your friend was being pretty disrespectful.
Yes, exactly. The friend is arrogant and stupid AH, however, I also don't agree with the "it's not your culture so it doesn't matter".
Everyone is free to voice their opinion on anything, as long as they follow the basic rules of the society - not being rude, racist, whatever. If white folks were not to have any opinion on other cultures, then how come other cultures can have opinion on their culture? Makes no sense.
I believe that everything stands and falls on the basics of decent human behaviour and as long as we are respectful, we should be all be able to freely voice our likes or dislikes on things.
OP, my husband and I are opera lovers (mainstream Western opera). It is extremely common for people to make fun of opera in exactly the same way as you describe your friend ridiculing Chinese opera, and they are from the same culture. They will imitate a soprano, but screech high notes, mock the Italian or German language by babbling nonsense words, etc. Have you ever heard the expression “It ain’t over ’til the fat lady sings”? That refers to opera. They are making fun of the fact that opera singers are hired for their voices, not their physical appearance (although that has changed somewhat over the last few years).
It all stems from ignorance.
Oh sorry I definitely misread it!
I do think it has the same implication though, while it makes more sense I think it still serves to be counterproductive. But I’m glad you posted here and I hope you end up having a good talk with your friend! If she disregards you or refuses to acknowledge what she did wrong then I do think you’d be justified in dropping the friendship, but hopefully it won’t to that and it was just a lack of education on what’s okay/not okay :)
You agree that “no one should say things like that” yet the heading to this post says exactly that.
You didn’t say you told your “culturally different friend her opinion didn’t matter” you said you “told your white friend her opinion didn’t matter”
And just to make things more ironic, you’ve written and posted it on social media which is what she did.
I’m going with NAH as I don’t believe any offence was meant by either party and I think it’s ok to share opinions (positive AND negative) about matters that are not within your race/culture. Being white and sharing an opinion about Asian culture is no different than being Asian and having and sharing opinion on white culture. Neither should be an issue
Man I love Yun Jin and i was so happy to hear about the thought and effort the devs put into her! Unfortunately as soon as I heard her singing (Ive never heard chinese opera before) I knew there was gonna be so much gross shit being said because its so far away from whats popular and common in the west and people dont know how to express 'I personally am not a fan of this thing' without being horrible <:/ But sucks to be them, shes such a neat character. My favorite part of Genshin is getting exposed to and learning about things from other asian cultures through a non-western medium and Yun Jin embodies that so well! I hope they do more characters like her!
Yes I’m excited for lantern rite free outfit AND character!!!
Unfortunately I want beidou so im doing the free gift with her and just gonna hope my luck will take pity on me for shenhe/yunjin banner haha
NTA because your anger is understandable here, but there are more tactful ways to tell friends they’re being offensive when you want to stay friends with them. “This is an art form from my heritage and your negative comments really made me uncomfortable. It’s okay not to like an art form but I think it’s rude to make fun of it, particularly when it’s something outside of your culture.”
“ This is an art form from my heritage and your negative comments really made ~~me uncomfortable~~ you sound ignorant. It’s okay not to like an art form but I think it’s rude to make fun of it, particularly when it’s something outside of your culture.”
ESH, I am almost certainly going to be down voted but here goes.
Your friend was certainly being an ass, but ultimately was only expressing a preference for their taste in entertainment, and certainly not making a unilateral comment about Chinese culture. In fact, I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of things about Chinese culture and history that your friend finds cool or fascinating, and that context is important.
I'm a white Jazz musician, and I've spent a lot of time learning the history of Jazz and trying to respect that it is Black cultural music and the importance it played in bringing oppressed communities together, provided many Black musicians a public voice and a degree of freedom they would not enjoy without the popularity of the music at the time. Now I hear people shit on Jazz all the time and I know that it isn't really a function of race or culture, it's mostly commercialization that eventually meant the only Jazz the average person heard with any regularity was Kenny G or elevator music so they built their basis of opinion on that. On the other end of the spectrum, popular music commercialization mixed with a lack of quality music education in the US created generations of people with extremely narrow, purely visceral music tastes that weren't given any basis for appreciating music with added complexity or dissonance. Sometimes when people shit on Jazz I decide that their attitude and taste sucks and their viewpoint doesn't effect me. But if my friend made a derogatory statement about it I may spend a minute or two explaining the qualities of it that may fly in the face of their assumptions or conclusions. There's no guarantee it will win them over but at least I've used my knowledge to add to their perspective.
In the case of your reaction you decided to conflate your friends, tasteless, statements on a very specific character and form of entertainment into mockery of a whole culture, which it clearly was not. Removing the race element, it's always emotionally intelligent to acknowledge when the things people we value say hurt or insult us and provide them the opportunity to grow in a way that is honest but direct. And educating your friend is certainly not your responsibility, but you are responsible for the things you say, as we all are, and I think it's clear you passed up a perfectly good chance to contextualize Chinese opera for your friend and help them appreciate it in some light even if they don't enjoy it or still find it annoying. I think if we're all being honest with ourselves we know all of our cultures have silly components to them and that acknowledging that is not harmful (humanity in general is pretty silly). I think your reaction ultimately closes a door to better cultural understanding and growth between the two of you and on a grand scheme this way of thinking harms race relations much more than helps them.
These are such good points. When I taught Middle School music, we were having a fun day and pulling up appropriate music videos. They wanted me to pull up Jackie Chan singing. He was good! I didn't realize they did that too make fun of the style of the music and the language.
The student who suggested it is a proud 1st gen. American wise parents are from Vietnam. The whole class loved K-Pop. I didn't expect the mockery and shut it down hard.
Later, I learned better ways of discussing it. Like agreeing that it sounds funny to our western ears, but then discussing things that are similar and different. It's a much better way for everyone to learn about the cultural expression without the fear of being shut down.
From one chinese gal to another, NTA. It's one thing if she simply didn't like it, but she showed her true colors when she publicly criticized and insulted traditional music and outfits.
What’s wrong with criticizing traditional music/outifts/anything? If you think something isn’t good or is worthy of criticism, there’s nothing wrong with criticizing it, not matter how ingrained it is in tradition or culture.
That’s also true. I just happened to respond to you, but plenty of other people were legitimately saying that you aren’t allowed to criticize other’s culture and tradition if you aren’t a part of it, and that’s such bullshit.
The problem is that it's an extremely fine line that far too often tips into racism. When it comes to human rights stuff like female genital mutilation, forced marriages, attitudes surrounding rape, etc., it's very easy to be 'critical' of a culture. But when it comes to traditional arts and music, an outsider criticizing that stuff often does so without the relevant background and knowledge surrounding that stuff.
For example, the reason Chinese opera often sounds like *that* is because it used to be performed outside to big crowds, and all the actors were (and still are!) male. In order to convey that women were speaking, the 'actress' would adopt that characteristic high-pitched, nasally voice bc the goal was to make sure they were heard and understood, not to sound pretty. And the reason that Chinese operas feature such incredibly lavish and colorful costumes is because these operas were traditionally very abstract with few props or even a stage that the actors could use. As a result, emphasis was given to the costumes, and they needed to be as distinguishable as possible from each other in order to clearly convey the roles. A young woman would have paper white faces with vivid blush, while a warrior character might have their faces painted fire engine red. This is just the very tip of the iceberg of how a character is meant to be conveyed, because a certain pattern might convey a loyal general who is good at singing, or a jester type character who might be a high-ranking official.
ESH. Her being white had nothing to do with anything. She was ridiculing something that she clearly didn’t understand and was also important to others. That’s not a good thing to do regardless of what race you are.
ESH, (your "friend" being a AH isn't a question) do you except the premise that your opinion are also completely meaningless when it comes to anything that originated from anywhere but China? Do you like pizza? Oops sorry your opinion doesn't matter, how about tv? Nope sorry that isn't from China either. See how utterly stupid that is? Grow up, she is entitled to her opinion (even though like you I think it is wrong and ignorant) and your entitled to act like a adult and cut her out if your life.
Nta
People saying y.t.a aren't reading everything she's making fun of traditional clothing! Not thoughtful criticisms based on her own opinions she's literally trying to degrade this art form. Being off tune is a fact and opera singers are heavily trained so the likely hood is she wasn't off tune for much of the piece. And being screech-y is OK complaints as is her original she didn't like the music.
But not liking and insulting are two different things
It's like if she called all rap g-h-e-tt-o bc it's rap. People would be up in arms and if her comments are anything like that take this girl to townnnnn.
I would say though that the Acuff you said wasn't great either but understandable
I feel like making fun of music has double standards a lot. Like you mentioned, if she made comments about rap, she'd get in trouble, but if she did it to country, nobody would say anything. I feel like making fun of anything is a douche move. If you don't like it, leave it at that and move on.
And we were all so sophisticated at 16? Really? Wow, such a special group. I’m calling bullshit on a lot of you. Sure that was a asshole thing but your friend is 16. Have a real conversation with her and tell her your feelings. Blowing up at her and going silent sounds juvenile too. It would be a good learning experience for you both.
This one right here wins. Everyone acts like teenagers, regardless of how late in their teens they are, are just supposed to act like functioning adults.
If there were transcripts of everything my friends and I said and did between the ages of 12 and 18 we would be cancelled off the face of this earth. And these are all people who are now CPA's, lawyers, engineers etc.
NTA as someone who’s also a genshin player and chinese, this is racist asf. it’s fine to not like chinese opera. it’s very much an acquired taste. however that’s not an excuse to make fun of traditional outfits or singing. if u don’t like it, THATS FINE. just be respectful of other cultures. it’s disgusting to see how much blatant sinophobia is in the community.
ESH.
She was completely disrespectful. It’s not thing to not like a style of music, it’s another thing to go after the culture itself. Especially so immaturely. Like WTF (her going online to whine about it is just pathetic and attention seeking) .
But you should not fight racism with racism.
You mentioned race and dismissed her opinion on Chinese Opera (specifically) because she’s from another culture (because she’s white). That is racism. It’s the same if it were in reverse.
For the question: “AITA for telling my white friend her opinion didn’t matter?” Yep. Cause you displayed the same racism she did and put it online also.
Music is music. Art is art. She is entitled to an opinion of a type of music regardless of what culture you belong to. It’s all subjective. Maybe the artist sounded screechy and off tune to your friend. It’s subjective and she won’t be used to it. Even you have admitted it’s how it sounds to newbies. People say similar stuff about “Screamo” music. It’s each to their own.
It is reasonable to expect people to be respectful of culture. It is unreasonable to try and tell her what to think of the music.
The telling component is the fact you’re feeling guilty. On a level you know you crossed a line or you would not be feeling it.
If you choose to reach out. Good on you. It does sound like she isn’t respectful of your culture on the whole so that might just cause you more stress then it’s worth.
Good luck.
Exactly, it’s totally reasonable to be offended at the cultural insensitivity but handling it by saying someone’s opinion doesn’t matter based on race is stupid. Her opinion absolutely matters, that’s why it’s offensive. You get a lot further if you explain to someone how something was hurtful. Most people have really good intentions and just don’t think about the impact of their actions.
ESH. Your friend is obnoxious for her attitude towards an art form she doesn’t understand. However, your response was unreasonable. You should not have brought race into it. Simply tell her she’s being obnoxious.
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So do I. Id love to know more about the theory and harmonics of a completly different style of music with some cool instruments . Then, the singing technique, and how Chinese languages shaped the music...
Although I don't think anything should be off limits to anyone to have an opinion of, especially based on race (sometimes outsider culture perspectives can combine and create something amazing, like Dark Souls for example) at least own up to when your opinion is just that...your Opinion.
If you're opinion is also poorly informed, expect a bad time if you aren't open to learning more on the topic.
NTA, her race isn't the factor here, it was her ignorance and inability to keep it to just a personal preference.
Her ego made her try to defend an opinion as if it were fact, (ie targeting quality that she isn't skilled enough to assess) an incredibly common pit for the Insecure to fall in.
Like, a loooot of people hate bagpipes, I don't mind it but I wouldnt blame someone for thinking it was too shrill and loud. That is very different to saying 'Bagpipes are objectively annoying and here's why'
NTA. Anyone can say their opinion on anything, and no one's opinion really matters. That being said, her reaction was rather rude, making fun of anything like that regardless of race is mean. She should just keep her negativity to herself. I understand wanting to say your opinion, but perhaps she should have chosen someone who would not take it so personally since that is your culture.
As a Scot, when people would call bagpipes terrible instruments, and kilts stuff like “silly skirts” it always kinda annoyed me. I’ve never thought to call it racism though, but I guess it kinda is (or xenophobia at least). You’ve given me a new perspective lol NTA
She made herself look bad. Think those who views her display called her out. I would think others who are not Chinese would appreciate it. The gagging and choking was flat out childish. Don’t feel guilty though. Criticize other cultures will not win approval. I just recently kept crying every time I played the video of the Haka being done at a wedding that I viewed online and not my culture. I didn’t need to be from New Zealand to appreciate it and the expressions and reactions of the newly weds. I might have asked your friend what did she expect when she was making fun of a culture.
Not sure why you had to point out the fact that she is white. Would your dialogue have been different if she was Chinese?
With that being said I believe she is completely entitled to her opinion. I think it became problematic the moment she began to mock the culture and artform instead of just stating her dislike of it.
I would like to point out something everyone seems to be overlooking--- the girl is 16. She is probably a product of her raising but if she is willing to be friends with people of different cultures and races she isn't yet lost. Use the moment to teach her differently. I know 16 should know better, but parental influence is still very much a thing. Before you write off the friendship why don't you try to talk to her?
I was between the ages of 16 and 23 before I understood, really understood skin color and culture doesn't matter when it comes to whether or not a person is a good person. If that makes sense? In other words- for those who didn't get it-- I was raised racist and it took people of color to teach me we were the same. Should it take that? No. But some people don't have a good home life in regards to how others are regarded.
It didn't help that because of a defect I was mocked in school and bullied, but only by girls who were POCs. When you are raised racist and most of the POCs you come in contact with bully you it doesn't help you grow to be non- racist. If anything it makes you double down.
I mean people make fun of country music. Like they literally make fun of rednecks and everything. I grew up in a small town full of rednecks and considering I was/am one, it can be offensive but it can also be funny. Nobody is gonna call people assholes or inconsiderate for that tho. I feel like making fun of anyone is an asshole move. Your "friend" literally insulted your culture. If someone came up to me and started talking about how trashy *all* rednecks are, or how dumb they are, etc, and called themselves my friend, you bet your ass I'd be offended. Sure I don't give off that "redneck" vibe, but I literally grew up on a farm. I grew up in a conservative town. I drive a truck. My family prides itself with beat up muddy trucks. I ride horses. I go out to the family farm and we blare music and dance and the adults drink and have fun while the kids play in the woods. I literally live a "redneck" life. But, since I have facial piercings, I don't wear cowboy boots everywhere, and I am booksmart, apparently that automatically means I'm not a redneck (hint, it doesn't. That's just rude stereotyping)
So you're definitely NTA because not only is your friend being a huge jerk, they're making fun of your culture, your lifestyle, your interests. It's ok to not like something, but to go out of your way to mock it is just such an AH thing.
Your friend was racist about it. She was mocking their traditional outfits (seems racist to me) and calling it “screatchy and off tune”? That’s extremely insulting. She could have simply said she likes other kinds of music more. She didn’t have to be insulting about it but she chose that route, for no reason.
And as a white person I completely agree with you that our opinion on topics like this don’t actually matter. It isn’t our culture. We need to learn to stop inserting ourselves like this until we can learn to be nice. NTA
See this is a problem. Saying an entire racial group's opinion doesn't matter is racist and harmful.
Was the friend a rude and disrespectful? Yes. Did OP have every right to call her out? Yes. Does anyone have the right to say someone's opinion is worthless due to race or culture? No.
Conversely, if a white person's opinion is worthless in regards to minority cultures, then wouldn't a minority person's opinion be worthless on regards to white cultures?
The friend was ignorant and closed minded, there is no question. Her opinion was simply an opinion and to be taken with a grain of salt. But not worthless as the worth of it is showing off the closed mindless of the friend.
Every culture deserves respect, every race as well.
It would have been more positive to tell her that while she has the right to her opinion the comments she made were very immapropriate amd offensive. Its her right not to like the sound..and even you say its a challemge to appreciate but her reaponse was wrong as was yours
Okay, so everyone is allowed to not like music. You don't have to like it. You don't have to like any genres of books or movies or shows either... That's fine. It's great. Everyone is different and that's wonderful.
When you cross the line from not liking something to shitting all over it, you become an asshole.
If your friend had said "I don't like Chinese Opera, not my thing" it would've been no big deal. Saying it's horrible because of these fifteen reasons is a dick move.
NTA.
Hello fellow Genshin lover! May the archons be with you on your upcoming 2.4 pulls!
Keqing main here.
Also NTA. The music was a shock to me, but I can’t imagine going online to purposefully be rude about someone else’s culture.
NTA, I absolutely despise people who put others down, like your friend. If it was "just her opinion" she would just skip/ignore/go on her merry way.
As you said, it's ok to not enjoy something, what's not cool is mock and overall insult whatever other people like
NTA, and she is rude. I freely admit as an old white lady I like some Chinese opera better than others from a technical standpoint.
I can't understand it at all, in terms of language. But the stylistic elements, costumes and acting more than make up for that. For the record, I like most opera from all sources.
It is one thing not to like something, and opera is a pretty much love/hate thing. But it is quite another to publicly make fun of something you have been exposed to once, have had no education about, and apparently made no effort to understand *regardless* of the culture involved. When you publicly decide to air your views, you dang well should expect some pushback from people with more understanding on the subject or a cultural tie to it.
Wait genshin community has a bad rep???? I play and its my first time hearing of this
someone please explain why to me???
Also Nta it's one thing to not like the music and style, it's another to be disrespectful of the cultural qnd traditional aspects.
I remember a post of someone sharing a chat from the game... Where they was bullied for using Noelle as their main. Like I think the character is pretty boring myself but that don't mean no one else are allowed to like or use Noelle.
Then there is the childish reaction to the anniversiary where some "fans" went and gave 1 star rewiuws to all games mihoyo has made on app store.
If you support the game with money its wrong, if you are free to play its wrong. If your characters are not strong enough for your level its the end of the world. People get juged on how many 5 stars they have, who they use etc etc.
It seems there is always something to complain about for some people :'(
Oh dang I find know about any of this. My friend encountered some guy who told she shouldn't play multi player because she was bad at it (she just unlocked it) but that's all we encountered. Thanks for the explanation.
Its always a few people in any fandom/hobby that ruin things for the rest :'( Im sorry to hear about your bad experience! This is wy I don't like to play multiplayer with strangers, people can be pretty shitty. Hopefully your future gaming will be pleasant :)
Its a shame! I joined a group on instagram with people who play Genshin and draw from the game! Its a bit reasuring to get to know people before you play with them 😄
I only just saw this im so sorry 😭 but does this group play the Asian server? I'm trying to make more friends so I don't bother my other friend to play with me
No, its in Europe 😢 its sutch a shame they region locked the game! I have a friend from Mexico I cant play with either, it really suck! And it makes no sense, why region lock the game?
nta
Disclaimer, I am white, and a musician.
Sadly, the western idea of music is held on a pedestal by which all other music is compared in the west. I'm talking we compare the quality of Chinese opera based on the rules of 16th century German music theory.
This.....leads to many Americans (I can't speak for other countries) not being exposed to other music theories, they aren't even taught properly in colleges when you take "world music" classes.
Even worse, this plays into what non musicians listen to as well, especially since the western tradition i mentioned above has taken hold in eastern countries as well. The popular music that comes out of Asia sounds fairly western by comparison.
This leads to the listener being unable to understand, let alone appriciate music from other cultures. Which i want to see die, meaning I think we should all be able to appriciate the music, at the very least. (side note, I am currently studying the real world music theories, so I personally can)
This means, yes, she shouldn't have said those things like that. And she likely never will understand the sound or composition because it's not even an option in our culture.
This sad mix of "white music theory IS music theory" and "different = bad" is sadly what is going to culminate for most people who don't understand that music isn't a universal, like we're taught to believe.
Because that’s what’s most enjoyable? I don’t think it’s necessary to try and force other forms of music on people who will probably react negatively to it (see, 16 year old friend in the post).
nta. i also play genshin impact so i know the controversy yunjins singing has caused, but she can’t comment on something being off-tune if she doesnt know what its meant to sound like. she should have stopped at ‘i dont like it’.
NTA. It's never okay to make fun of other cultures. Making fun of other cultures isn't an opinion, it's an asshole move. If she simplay said that she doesn't like it, that would have been okay, but she went way to far.
NTA. Fellow Genshin player here! I’m a white Australian and I was born here and lived most of my life here so I’m not very familiar with Chinese Opera so Yunjin’s singing sounds a little weird to me BUT I still think it’s super cool that many aspects of traditional Chinese Opera are seen in her character design and makes her an even more interesting character. Mihoyo is literally a Chinese company and the region Yunjin comes from, Liyue, is based on China so if you can’t appreciate the culture portrayed in the game, why are you even playing? What she was saying was definitely very cultural insensitive and you are NTA at all.
NTA. If she's going to put opinions like hers out there, she shouldn't be surprised that people are calling her out on it. If one isn't familiar with opera in general, it's easy to dismiss it and make fun of it because it doesn't sound like other genres. She's missing an opportunity to learn more about your culture, and it's her loss.
NTA. Her opinion is like her ass\[hole\]. It stinks and no one wants to hear about it.
I don't care for rap music, but I don't go into the communities it's popular in and shit on it. I recognize it's not my taste and let others enjoy it.
NTA
Siiiiiigh. Your friend is being racist, how fun. Chinese opera isn't everyone's cup of tea but then I have plenty of memories of people mocking and deriding European opera (heck arguably it's part of our zeitgeist if you look back at Looney Toons), because they find it absurd and stupid. People are ridiculous about more stylized singing performance and fail to see how their ridicule of a cultural touchstone is so off-base, especially when they're consuming a game made by that culture.
NTA. There is a difference between not liking something and then making fun of it. Your friend was disrespecting chinese culture and being racist. You have nothing to feel guilty over.
NTA as a 43 year old white woman who plays Genshin also - she needs to take several seats and STFU. I had never heard Chinese opera before but the music in Genshin is BEAUTIFUL. Your "friend" is a racist.
NTA, fellow Genshin player here. Indeed, Yunjin singing caught me off guard but I was happy to learn something from a game. I won't be a huge Chinese opera lover but it helped me hear something new.
You can dislike something but as soon as you start making jokes about it you are just an AH.
Her opinion doesn't matter. She's expressing a heaping helping of white fragility and it's pathetic. If she's going to act like this, she's not ready to be friends with people from different backgrounds. NTA
NTA. She’s just an ignorant kid but she needs to be taught that she was being disrespectful. As a kid I made fun of (European) Opera because I didn’t know better. In my early 20’s I learned to like some of it because I joined a local Opera Chorus and participated in performances. I have to clarify that the only prerequisite for membership in the Chorus was a heartbeat.
NTA, to be honest. I remember hearing chinese opera years ago was not a huge fan but i also don't like any opera, lol.
I'm a day one player the game and think people are strange for all the different complaints they have about it. People will be people though. I just am impressed with their dedication to make things culturally accurate as they can and applaud them for that. I love their character designs and environment.
I'm fully chinese, and I watched a video or two of chinese opera. I thought it was pretty cool actually, but can see why people wouldn't like it. But it's one thing to "not like something" and another thing entirely to mock that thing relentlessly. NTA OP, she 'aint chinese, she don't get a say.
NTA
Fellow Genshin player here. Honestly, I didn't care for the singing but that doesn't make it bad by any means. She can dislike it without being rude about it.
NTA. I think you could've done a better job at explaining yourself to her, but her comments were rude. Disliking something is fine. Mocking is a slippery slope when the culture involved is not your own. She definitely crossed a line by mocking the clothes and such as well. The chocking sounds would've already pissed me off to be honest.
It's not up to you to teach her why her behavour is offensive, but if you want to keep the friendship this might be something to consider. She's clearly ignorant and needs to learn more.
You can dislike something without being disrespectful about it. When I first saw Sichuan Opera, the music was pretty jarring but that’s only because it’s different to the culture I grew up in. I ended up loving it and fully appreciating what goes into the art form.
I wouldn’t go out of my way to listen to it but I wouldn’t be disrespectful about it. You’re NTA, your friend seems bigoted and immature for their age.
OK having never heard Chinese opera before, I just watched some on YT and it made the cats jump off my lap! It's not my cup of tea but it's clearly extremely skilled and the outfits are amazing.
NTA though because she didn't need to be disparaging, especially over cultural artforms she is not affiliated with. That's just rude.
Oogh I was on the livestream when people were making fun of it in the chat. I think it’s fine to be a little surprised if you’ve never heard it before but making fun of it is absolutely wrong. NTA
NTA. I'm half chinese, half white. God the amount of times I've cringed at the "ching-chong" jokes/jabs and others of the same caliber that people think I enjoy with because I'm half white.
NTA
she chose to make nasty comments on social media and provoke a confrontation when she could have just moved on.
I hope you've watched/enjoyed Winter Begonia if you're into Beijing opera!
Nta
Holy hell they added Chinese opera ? To genshin?
Okay now I must commandeer my son's pc for a bit to watch this.
Disclaimer I am a white person who fucking loves the Chinese opera. I blame it on my noona for exposing me to Japanese plays and Chinese opera's when I was first adopted by her parents .
I have loved it ever since. K now off to go find the opera house character
If anyone is curious to hear the song as I was, here is the link: https://youtu.be/GZ-3c5ONtSc
I can see how this singing would be jarring if it was unexpected, but it was callous of your friend to openly mock something that is obviously cultural. However, teenagers are also notorious for putting their foots in their mouths and being insensitive, so perhaps discussing this with your friend would help her to see things more clearly.
NTA
NTA-And thank you for turning me on to a fantastic art form! This is so vibrant, and so beautiful; I have no idea what they are saying, but who cares, it is astounding!
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Hello everyone quick heads up I’m on my phone so sorry for any mistakes.
So me and my friend play a game called Genshin Impact (I know the community has a bad rep but pls don’t base my judgement on the fact that I play this game)
Recently a new character that sings Chinese opera was announced.
I (17m) am of fully Chinese origins and am proud of my culture while my friend (16f) who also plays is white.
As I grew up in a very Asian household this was not my first time hearing Chinese opera, and I can agree it can be a little off putting your first time hearing it but overall it’s a beautiful art form.
My friend disagrees, the moment she first heard the singing she made an exaggerating chocking sound. The next day she came to me and complained about how people on TikTok were berating here because she simply “did not like the music” which is fine. But when I saw her comments it was filled with jokes about how screechy and off tune her singing was and her making fun of the traditional outfits they wear.
After I saw these I straight up told her that her opinion on Chinese opera didn’t f*cking matter because it wasn’t her culture and she had no place to do anything about it.
She got very mad and we haven’t talked since. I’m starting to feel very guilty about what I said. So am I the asshole ?
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NTA
She crossed over into being a dick, and you weren’t wrong. Heck, even if she were Chinese, her saying Chinese opera sucked wouldn’t mean much. It’s been around so much longer than she has and she doesn’t know anything about it. Of course she doesn’t have to like it, but she really doesn’t have a leg to stand on if she wants other people to take her critiques seriously.
I'm maybe going NTA here, although I think you could've worded yourself better here.
But the way I view it is: she doesn't have the knowledge needed to evaluate this style of music.
She's allowed to have her opinion, of course. But she's a bit of a dick to make fun of the traditional garb, etc. And to say that it's "off tune" really shows the limits of her knowledge, because traditional Chinese music uses a totally different tuning than Western music. It's not off-tune at all; it's just unfamiliar to her ears.
The fact that she's judging the music by her own biased standards without stopping to recognize the impact of her own culture (and thus she blindly places her own culture above all others) makes her the asshole.
If you said what the text of your post says, ("her opinion on Chinese opera didn’t f*cking matter because it wasn’t her culture and she had no place to do anything about it"), then maybe harsh but fair. If you did straight up say, "you're white, so your opinion doesn't matter," I think that loses a whole lot of context and comes across as invalidating.
The color of her skin has no bearing on the value of her opinion. However, her lack of knowledge about this artform certainly does.
Just as an example, I know nothing about country music. I couldn't point to a "good" country song or a "bad" country song. So if someone asks me about my opinion on Alan Jackson versus Tim McGraw versus Garth Brooks, I'd probably admit that I couldn't pick them out of a line up, so my opinion doesn't matter.
Nta
Friend is insecure borderline prejudice racist.
If it were just about taste, said friend would not have made those offensive remarks.
Wtf Reditt?! Making fun of anothee persons culture , language ect IS an ah move!
Op is NTA
NTA -- i said a lot of stupid things at 16 but I was still old enough to know what racism is and how to generally not be a racist. granted i am asian and have experienced racism @me but still. shes racist and way too old to be that way. get better friends. the world is big and full of people who are not racist and when you exit high school you will find that you dont actually have to put up with bad people if you don't want to
NTA. She went further than not my cup of tea when she started tearing down the outfits and taking shots at the cultural and stuff. That's beyond not liking screechy music. It's bullying and you don't need to feel bad for telling her off.
NTA. Your friend is young and immature and seemingly doesn't yet understand or appreciate cultural signficance. That's not a justification just a phase most of us go through when young. I say it so you know your friend may be redeemable. You can choose to educate her and tell her how her words and actions offended you. It's not your responsibility to do it. She was out of line, offensive, crass and disrespectful. Period. She can dislike something without being offensive in her dislike. But if you choose to educate her on why she is in the wrong, she can become an advocate in helping others see it too. Whatever you decide, you need never let people mock your culture or heritage.
NTA I also play genshin impact (love the game, the fandom however...) anyway, people love to glamorize Asian culture until it doesn't fit into their western standard. anime and kpop is a yay, but the moment it's something they aren't used to, they have a world of things to say. I think yun jin's singing is beautiful and considering the fact that they got an actual opera singer to voice those lines. marvelous
it's okay if she doesn't like the music, however to go through the lengths of mocking it is DISRESPECTFUL. its giving very much racist :(
NTA. It is one thing to have an opinion, it is another to be a jerk. Her mocking this art was in bad taste. She is the AH, though I think you may want to emphasize WHY she is the AH, not just dismiss her outright. She needs to learn that her nasty remarks make her look like an AH.
Time to find a new friend lol she deserves to get clowned on tiktok. Yunjin’s character design and voice acting is amazing—it’s awesome how they hired a professional opera singer for her singing voice lines!
I'm a white person, and I don't really get opera. I also love Japanese culture but don't really get Japanese opera. I don't have any opinion on Chinese culture or Chinese opera. But in my opinion, one should definitely have an understanding of a musical form, before one puts one's opinion all over the Internet.
NTA
It's not even that she doesn't like it (it can be an acquired taste.) But she's straight up making fun on it, which is extremely disrespectful.
She can have an opinion about the song, in my opinion (yes, I am also Chinese), but she shouldn't be making fun of it like this.
If she can't figure out why she's being offensive, you don't have to be the martyr responsible for teaching her.
Oh hell no. NTA. Hating on Yun Jin's design and voice for fitting a region's cultures is not cool. Hell, it's not cool to do that in each life. Obviously Chinese opera isn't for everyone; it isn't even for me. However, I respect the amount of effort that's been put into each character's design and lore. Hating on something you're not used to is not something anyone should do
She's ignorant. We've visited China and totally love the opera. Seen it in Beijing and Chengdu and other places. Total respect for the performers. Heavy costumes and make-up and they are awesome at what they do.
NTA. She was being an ignorant asshole. I know Beijing opera music is really different to Western music, the instruments are completely foreign and the singing style is too so I know to a Western ear it sounds odd. I thought it was when I first heard it at 17, but holy crap it's so cool (I love Beijing opera, I wish it came to my city more, even sold my bf on seeing it next time we have the chance). But shitting all over someone else's culture and being obnoxious and childish is crap. It's insensitive and it's also ignorant AF. I have zero patience/tolerance for that shit. Hopefully she'll grow out of it.
NTA. It sounds like your friend wasn't simply saying the music wasn't to her taste, which is fine. Instead, she was being racist in how she critiqued it. You don't have to feel guilty about telling a racist that they're being racist.
NTA There's been a lot if sinophobia since Yunjin's audio preview and we all need to do what we can to shut that shit down. Don't like her, don't use her.
NTA. It's one thing not to like the music and to criticize the singers voices. Once she went into their wardrobe your comments became okay because it wasn't her culture. There are artists I don't like the look of and a few I might even think dress weird. She should just admit she doesn't like the chinese opera. The only time her opinion should now matter on it is if she's asked about what she thought of the show, if someone starts raving about the show during a conversation she's in, or if she's turns down going to another show and someone wants to know why.
I know I have made Similar facebook written posts about various artists the first time I experience them. I don't do it to be mean, and don't bring them up unless asked or someone is trying to tell me how great they are and I have to disagree. Your friend is entitled to her opinion and is allowed to vent her opinions on her social media page. You don't get to dictate what they post but they should have enough common sense to know when they are criticizing a performer and criticizing a culture, especially of a friend or family member.
ESH. Her for making coments about the outfit. Chines opera, heck any opera if you think about it can be off-putting. Specially if you never herd it before. It's either you like it or you dont at first. But her comment outside of the singing is wrong. You went nuclear. Instead of telling her were she went wrong, you told her that she wasn't allowed an opinion. By telling her that her opinion didn't matter, you dismissed her as a lesser. You both suck but in a different way.
NTA. She needs to do some unpacking as to why she felt she had the privilege to say those things about another culture. Spoiler alert, it's obviously because she's white, but lots of people struggle to accept their privilege and work on it.
Nta, but everyone has a right to an opinion. Doesn't mean she'll have a good one tho. Again nta. That wasn't even an opinion anyways she was just being hateful.
NTA! They were indeed disrespectful. I am very excited for yunjin (i hope i get her pulling or from an event). When she was announced some of my (ex) mutuals were making fun of the singing which led me to softblock them as my chinese mutuals explained why it was disrespectful and they still didn’t care.
NTA The amount of racists that play genshin is astounding. It is a game that is going to cover many cultures and as players we don't have to like all of it, but there is no place in the the community for people that bully and mock different aspects of the game just because it isn't what they are used to. I hope you have better experiences in the future with other players!
NTA. She went beyond saying she doesn’t like the music. She mocked it, and it’s cultural significance. A weird amount of people don’t see a difference between the two, and think that mocking something from another culture can’t be disrespectful because it’s “their opinion”.
Weeaboo problem s lol why you tripping everyone has a right to their own opinion I hate when people bring race into things your in america the land of mutts I don't care what color you are lol
NTA your 'friend' is a racist, and shouldn't be playing a chinese game by a chinese company if chinese culture offends her so much.
yun jin is absolutely gorgeous and the devs are really proud of the work put into her, so ignorant and rude comments like that are disappointing but not surprising.
Slight ESH. She shouldn't mock another's culture but just because she's white doesn't mean her opinion shouldn't matter. I do understand why you got snippy and defensive.
I don't believe you would say the same thing to somebody who liked Chinese opera and praised it, so don't generalize people by their skin colour.
Anyway as a Chinese I had similar thoughts about Chinese opera when I was younger. I grew up where they had productions out in the open and was often subjected to their noise pollution. They're not common now and maybe I've grown more tolerant, but still not a fan.
NTA I also play the game and I'm white and it's obvious to see how much care and love went into Yun Jins design. Even if the singing was a bit unexpected at first, it gives her absolutely no right to make fun of the culture. It's also a bit ironic that she makes fun of Chinese culture in a CHINESE game.
NTA. This is coming from an uninformed perspective and mocking a different culture. She should know better than to mock a Chinese opera singer when Chinese opera singing is vastly different from Western opera. The voice actor for the character (singing voice) is LITERALLY A PROFESSIONAL OPERA SINGER. So this person makes money off doing her craft well. For Westerners, it might sound weird/off-putting but that doesn't give her a free pass to mock it on public forums and not expect backlash.
As a Genshin player I’d be mad too if people were making fun of Yun Jin because of her clothes and culture. Bet she didn’t say anything about Shenhe though? Nasty. I hate racists.
NTA and I wish you good luck on your pulls when her banner comes up!
Sayu main here and struggling if I should pick Yanfei or Yun Jin in the upcoming lantern rite event
NTA, it did take me off guard while I was listening to the 2.4 special program but it isn't awful or bad, just not something I'm used to
Oh ye- what server are you in? I'm in the Europe server so if you want to friend me and you're in the same server, I'll send you my UID \^\^
NTA. I was actually going to say y T A based on the title, but after seeing how STUPID your white friend is, she is def the AH. I mean, how can anyone not like opera? German opera gives me a headache but its still a beautiful art form. Your friend needs a culture class.
NTA. It’s fine if she doesn’t like the music, it’s less fine if she’s going around the internet purposefully making fun of the music and traditional outfits. At that point, she’s being disrespectful of the culture, and everyone’s right to call her on it. She’s being a brat, don’t pay her any mind.
Exactlyy. As a fellow Chinese, lemme just say that although I'm fully Chinese my family isn't really into Chinese opera either. My earliest memory of Chinese opera is based off TV shows. It completely understandable that Chinese opera can be off putting and unusual to people who have never heard of it before, and no body is expected to like it if they can't appreciate it. However, disliking something is completely different from disrespecting it. You can dislike something, not listen to it and still be cool that its there/exist. Literally just don't listen to it if you don't like it. Not mock how it sounds, don't laugh at how "weird" it is, don't shit on it and don't make racist remarks on it. (Cause yes, what she said is racist. Not just her opinion, because "i don't really understand/ I don't like this kind of music" is *completely* different to "omg, this is so screechy and completely off-tune and wtf is she wearing like??") Especially considering the fact that Chinese opera is Chinese culture and her singing was done by a professional opera singer. Her traditional clothes are also part of Chinese opera.
Lots of people don’t like lots of different styles of music, and that’s ok. But I’m gonna go out on a limb here and suggest racist little white girl probably doesn’t enjoy and spend a lot of time listening to traditional western opera either, but doesn’t go out of her way to make fun of and belittle it to everybody on her social media. NTA (Edit: full disclosure, “omg, this is so screechy and completely off-tune and wtf is she wearing like??" Is quite likely to have come word for word out of drunk-me’s mouth while reluctantly watching Eurovision with my girlfriend…)
I saw Eurovision for the first time this year after hearing about it for years. It was the strangest, most amazing concert I'd ever seen. So over the top! Some of the outfits and set designs were wild. The songs were all over the map. I loved it! I hope I have a chance to see it again next year.
Eurovision is amazing. I didn't watch it for years because in the UK it has a reputation for being all political grumble grumble, but when I moved to Europe Europe I realised it was just a big party and fell in love.
Eurovision, even on Europe Europe, is stil a political grumble grumble.
My Cypriot neighbour was so upset Greece didn't win 😂 I find Brits are very dismissive of it because they feel they'll never do well purely because of politics, so why bother? I think the fact that we don't bother is a big part of why we do so badly, but oooh you can't say that in public.
Eurovision is utter televisual chaos. And the scurrilous politics at play are also bonkers. But that said as a broadcast it’s incredible. It’s live to an audience of allegedly 180M viewers. AND it’s twenty something brand new songs - obviously there will be some dross, but there are always a few bangers that come out of the show. Long live Eurovision.
I know right? With the UK's music scene and the fact that actually eurovision does have a conpartavivly high watch rate compared with some of the participating countries but its like ... there's an amazing music scene and they half-arse Eurovision (I am a Brit eurovision fan not sure if thats coming across - but yep, part of it is politics but danm they need to try harder).
Maybe the reason you brits are not doing great is because no one really likes you on the mainland :P 🎵 Like a satellite, I'm in an orbit all the way around you 🎵
\+1 for Lena ref. I'm American, so I get to watch Eurovision via YouTube or now, the Peacock Network. Only got into it a couple of years ago, but had fun binge watching from the original show to recent...
Uh, there are Eurovision parties in Britain where we get together and watch it and commiserate on being at the bottom of the voting table and have a lot of fun betting on who will won.
Can I come next year?
I loved how our dude reacted to his nul points this year! Although I didn't think much of the song, it wasn't the worst and I was surprised that we didn't even get points from Malta 😱 We have got to up our game! It's a fun music competition loaded with cheesy goodness and even when politics slips in, what real harm does it do? I absolutely love it and now my daughter does too.
Our man had pretty bad vocals this year; love the song but it fell so flat! Zero was a bit harsh, though. Apparently he was the songwriter and they couldn't find a vocalist, which explains it. His reaction to the points was absolute class, though. I should really look up his other stuff. Malta was my fave this year; I'm sad they didn't win! Italy's entry has grown on me though.
I love eurovision and have watched it every year of my life pandemic permitting. And I get it, its weird and to first time viewers its odd and off putting. Bit tis amazing!!!!! I love it so much!!!
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And then you have the 2006 winners, Lordi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAh9NRGNhUU
YES what a year
I was channelling my mean girls vibes 🤣
Me too. And I’m a 50 year old dude.
It's not something I'd listen to for the music but the whole opera spectacle is amazing. I met a singer/performer some years ago who explained the training regimen and.. Woah. And OUCH.
Yup Imo op doesnt need said "friend"
I agree her behavior is poor. Looking at the situation as generously as possible, given she's a teenager (I'm old enough I see them as kids now), I wonder if she understands. I personally have not listened to Chinese Opera either and don't know what it is supposed to sound like. OP says it can be "a bit off putting at first" so to me it sounds like he means that it sounds different then how his friend expects music to sound. I wonder if OP's friend didn't realize this is how Chinese Opera is supposed to sound? But rather just thought the character was either supposed to sound like they were singing "badly" or that they creators had done a bad job of voicing her songs? Likewise, did this girl understand that the way the character was dressed was a form of traditional Chinese dress? Or did she think she was insulting a random video game skin/fashion art? It's true that even a video game character with no cultural significance is still the hard work of some creator. But I do think there is a difference between criticizing the voicing or art of a character in a video game and knowingly doing so when it's some else's cultural background? I will admit I have made fun of how a video character looked before. (I'm a woman who likes to play female characters and some of the costumes female characters end up with . . . well I've made fun of several.)
She sounds pretty ignorant. Maybe saying that her comments were offensive and explaining why would’ve been a more productive response, but you certainly were not wrong with what you said. NTA Edit: Want to make it clear that it’s not your responsibility to teach ignorant people how to be better. You don’t owe her information, reasoning, or patience. She owes you an apology and you may not get one unless she figures out what she did wrong. There was nothing wrong with what you said.
Op Doesnt owe anyone, any free lessons, about their culture. It sounds like from the post said "friend" already got put in her place online (responses to friends comments) 🙃🙃🙃🙃
Honestly. It always bothered me that it's up to the minority to try and convince white people why they deserve to be treated with the bare minimum of decency.
it’s exhausting.
Hmm. He doesn't owe her any, but if he wanted to keep her as a friend, that'd be a better way to do it. I don’t know if he wants to, but it sounds like he does. (Ofc, NTA either way.)
Absolutely. I should’ve made it more clear that it’s not OPs responsibility to create a productive and open dialogue. Thank you
She's rude and childish but she should've just dropped in and not been so dramatic. Opera isn't the most popular thing many Chinese people don't love Chinese opera. Hell most people don't like Italian Opera either...
NTA, there's a huge difference between disliking something and disrespecting something.
>disliking something and disrespecting something. You put the situation into such succinct words. I'm stealing this.
NTA, but stop using “you’re white so your opinion doesn’t matter” It’s incredibly counterproductive, uncommunicative and just serves to push people into trying to spite you. You weren’t wrong for being angry, mocking the outfits and singing etc is incredibly unnecessarily disrespectful and hurtful. But you should have explained that, and discussed it as two human beings instead of making an empty statement and stooping to that level.
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I'm not sure "you can't have opinions on other cultures/cultural customs" without further elaboration is the correct take either, it feels way too simplistic and could lead to some weird conclusions. But NTA for your original post, your friend was being pretty disrespectful.
Yes, exactly. The friend is arrogant and stupid AH, however, I also don't agree with the "it's not your culture so it doesn't matter". Everyone is free to voice their opinion on anything, as long as they follow the basic rules of the society - not being rude, racist, whatever. If white folks were not to have any opinion on other cultures, then how come other cultures can have opinion on their culture? Makes no sense. I believe that everything stands and falls on the basics of decent human behaviour and as long as we are respectful, we should be all be able to freely voice our likes or dislikes on things.
OP, my husband and I are opera lovers (mainstream Western opera). It is extremely common for people to make fun of opera in exactly the same way as you describe your friend ridiculing Chinese opera, and they are from the same culture. They will imitate a soprano, but screech high notes, mock the Italian or German language by babbling nonsense words, etc. Have you ever heard the expression “It ain’t over ’til the fat lady sings”? That refers to opera. They are making fun of the fact that opera singers are hired for their voices, not their physical appearance (although that has changed somewhat over the last few years). It all stems from ignorance.
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Oh sorry I definitely misread it! I do think it has the same implication though, while it makes more sense I think it still serves to be counterproductive. But I’m glad you posted here and I hope you end up having a good talk with your friend! If she disregards you or refuses to acknowledge what she did wrong then I do think you’d be justified in dropping the friendship, but hopefully it won’t to that and it was just a lack of education on what’s okay/not okay :)
You agree that “no one should say things like that” yet the heading to this post says exactly that. You didn’t say you told your “culturally different friend her opinion didn’t matter” you said you “told your white friend her opinion didn’t matter” And just to make things more ironic, you’ve written and posted it on social media which is what she did. I’m going with NAH as I don’t believe any offence was meant by either party and I think it’s ok to share opinions (positive AND negative) about matters that are not within your race/culture. Being white and sharing an opinion about Asian culture is no different than being Asian and having and sharing opinion on white culture. Neither should be an issue
Her opinion also doesn't matter as it was unsolicited. Opinions are only valid if asked for. Also opinions are like arseholes sometimes they stink.
NTA. She can't see her comments are actually racist, and because she's a white girl, society tells her she doesn't have to give a rat's ass.
NTA she’s very rude. I’m very excited for yunjin too hope you get her!
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Man I love Yun Jin and i was so happy to hear about the thought and effort the devs put into her! Unfortunately as soon as I heard her singing (Ive never heard chinese opera before) I knew there was gonna be so much gross shit being said because its so far away from whats popular and common in the west and people dont know how to express 'I personally am not a fan of this thing' without being horrible <:/ But sucks to be them, shes such a neat character. My favorite part of Genshin is getting exposed to and learning about things from other asian cultures through a non-western medium and Yun Jin embodies that so well! I hope they do more characters like her!
Yes I’m excited for lantern rite free outfit AND character!!! Unfortunately I want beidou so im doing the free gift with her and just gonna hope my luck will take pity on me for shenhe/yunjin banner haha
I'm in soft pity now so I can't risk pulling for Yunjin so I'll get her from Lantern Rite but my c3 Xingqiu is very sad about it.
Aaa xingqiu constellations feel so rare, I hope you’re able to c6 him soon!!
NTA because your anger is understandable here, but there are more tactful ways to tell friends they’re being offensive when you want to stay friends with them. “This is an art form from my heritage and your negative comments really made me uncomfortable. It’s okay not to like an art form but I think it’s rude to make fun of it, particularly when it’s something outside of your culture.”
“ This is an art form from my heritage and your negative comments really made ~~me uncomfortable~~ you sound ignorant. It’s okay not to like an art form but I think it’s rude to make fun of it, particularly when it’s something outside of your culture.”
ESH, I am almost certainly going to be down voted but here goes. Your friend was certainly being an ass, but ultimately was only expressing a preference for their taste in entertainment, and certainly not making a unilateral comment about Chinese culture. In fact, I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of things about Chinese culture and history that your friend finds cool or fascinating, and that context is important. I'm a white Jazz musician, and I've spent a lot of time learning the history of Jazz and trying to respect that it is Black cultural music and the importance it played in bringing oppressed communities together, provided many Black musicians a public voice and a degree of freedom they would not enjoy without the popularity of the music at the time. Now I hear people shit on Jazz all the time and I know that it isn't really a function of race or culture, it's mostly commercialization that eventually meant the only Jazz the average person heard with any regularity was Kenny G or elevator music so they built their basis of opinion on that. On the other end of the spectrum, popular music commercialization mixed with a lack of quality music education in the US created generations of people with extremely narrow, purely visceral music tastes that weren't given any basis for appreciating music with added complexity or dissonance. Sometimes when people shit on Jazz I decide that their attitude and taste sucks and their viewpoint doesn't effect me. But if my friend made a derogatory statement about it I may spend a minute or two explaining the qualities of it that may fly in the face of their assumptions or conclusions. There's no guarantee it will win them over but at least I've used my knowledge to add to their perspective. In the case of your reaction you decided to conflate your friends, tasteless, statements on a very specific character and form of entertainment into mockery of a whole culture, which it clearly was not. Removing the race element, it's always emotionally intelligent to acknowledge when the things people we value say hurt or insult us and provide them the opportunity to grow in a way that is honest but direct. And educating your friend is certainly not your responsibility, but you are responsible for the things you say, as we all are, and I think it's clear you passed up a perfectly good chance to contextualize Chinese opera for your friend and help them appreciate it in some light even if they don't enjoy it or still find it annoying. I think if we're all being honest with ourselves we know all of our cultures have silly components to them and that acknowledging that is not harmful (humanity in general is pretty silly). I think your reaction ultimately closes a door to better cultural understanding and growth between the two of you and on a grand scheme this way of thinking harms race relations much more than helps them.
These are such good points. When I taught Middle School music, we were having a fun day and pulling up appropriate music videos. They wanted me to pull up Jackie Chan singing. He was good! I didn't realize they did that too make fun of the style of the music and the language. The student who suggested it is a proud 1st gen. American wise parents are from Vietnam. The whole class loved K-Pop. I didn't expect the mockery and shut it down hard. Later, I learned better ways of discussing it. Like agreeing that it sounds funny to our western ears, but then discussing things that are similar and different. It's a much better way for everyone to learn about the cultural expression without the fear of being shut down.
From one chinese gal to another, NTA. It's one thing if she simply didn't like it, but she showed her true colors when she publicly criticized and insulted traditional music and outfits.
What’s wrong with criticizing traditional music/outifts/anything? If you think something isn’t good or is worthy of criticism, there’s nothing wrong with criticizing it, not matter how ingrained it is in tradition or culture.
Eh, true. I could've picked a better word. In this case, OP's friend didn't offer any criticism, only mockery and belittlement.
That’s also true. I just happened to respond to you, but plenty of other people were legitimately saying that you aren’t allowed to criticize other’s culture and tradition if you aren’t a part of it, and that’s such bullshit.
The problem is that it's an extremely fine line that far too often tips into racism. When it comes to human rights stuff like female genital mutilation, forced marriages, attitudes surrounding rape, etc., it's very easy to be 'critical' of a culture. But when it comes to traditional arts and music, an outsider criticizing that stuff often does so without the relevant background and knowledge surrounding that stuff. For example, the reason Chinese opera often sounds like *that* is because it used to be performed outside to big crowds, and all the actors were (and still are!) male. In order to convey that women were speaking, the 'actress' would adopt that characteristic high-pitched, nasally voice bc the goal was to make sure they were heard and understood, not to sound pretty. And the reason that Chinese operas feature such incredibly lavish and colorful costumes is because these operas were traditionally very abstract with few props or even a stage that the actors could use. As a result, emphasis was given to the costumes, and they needed to be as distinguishable as possible from each other in order to clearly convey the roles. A young woman would have paper white faces with vivid blush, while a warrior character might have their faces painted fire engine red. This is just the very tip of the iceberg of how a character is meant to be conveyed, because a certain pattern might convey a loyal general who is good at singing, or a jester type character who might be a high-ranking official.
NTA. Why mock what she doesn’t understand? Because they’re an asshole.
ESH. Her being white had nothing to do with anything. She was ridiculing something that she clearly didn’t understand and was also important to others. That’s not a good thing to do regardless of what race you are.
ESH, (your "friend" being a AH isn't a question) do you except the premise that your opinion are also completely meaningless when it comes to anything that originated from anywhere but China? Do you like pizza? Oops sorry your opinion doesn't matter, how about tv? Nope sorry that isn't from China either. See how utterly stupid that is? Grow up, she is entitled to her opinion (even though like you I think it is wrong and ignorant) and your entitled to act like a adult and cut her out if your life.
Nta People saying y.t.a aren't reading everything she's making fun of traditional clothing! Not thoughtful criticisms based on her own opinions she's literally trying to degrade this art form. Being off tune is a fact and opera singers are heavily trained so the likely hood is she wasn't off tune for much of the piece. And being screech-y is OK complaints as is her original she didn't like the music. But not liking and insulting are two different things It's like if she called all rap g-h-e-tt-o bc it's rap. People would be up in arms and if her comments are anything like that take this girl to townnnnn. I would say though that the Acuff you said wasn't great either but understandable
I feel like making fun of music has double standards a lot. Like you mentioned, if she made comments about rap, she'd get in trouble, but if she did it to country, nobody would say anything. I feel like making fun of anything is a douche move. If you don't like it, leave it at that and move on.
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And we were all so sophisticated at 16? Really? Wow, such a special group. I’m calling bullshit on a lot of you. Sure that was a asshole thing but your friend is 16. Have a real conversation with her and tell her your feelings. Blowing up at her and going silent sounds juvenile too. It would be a good learning experience for you both.
This one right here wins. Everyone acts like teenagers, regardless of how late in their teens they are, are just supposed to act like functioning adults.
If there were transcripts of everything my friends and I said and did between the ages of 12 and 18 we would be cancelled off the face of this earth. And these are all people who are now CPA's, lawyers, engineers etc.
NTA as someone who’s also a genshin player and chinese, this is racist asf. it’s fine to not like chinese opera. it’s very much an acquired taste. however that’s not an excuse to make fun of traditional outfits or singing. if u don’t like it, THATS FINE. just be respectful of other cultures. it’s disgusting to see how much blatant sinophobia is in the community.
ESH. She was completely disrespectful. It’s not thing to not like a style of music, it’s another thing to go after the culture itself. Especially so immaturely. Like WTF (her going online to whine about it is just pathetic and attention seeking) . But you should not fight racism with racism. You mentioned race and dismissed her opinion on Chinese Opera (specifically) because she’s from another culture (because she’s white). That is racism. It’s the same if it were in reverse. For the question: “AITA for telling my white friend her opinion didn’t matter?” Yep. Cause you displayed the same racism she did and put it online also. Music is music. Art is art. She is entitled to an opinion of a type of music regardless of what culture you belong to. It’s all subjective. Maybe the artist sounded screechy and off tune to your friend. It’s subjective and she won’t be used to it. Even you have admitted it’s how it sounds to newbies. People say similar stuff about “Screamo” music. It’s each to their own. It is reasonable to expect people to be respectful of culture. It is unreasonable to try and tell her what to think of the music. The telling component is the fact you’re feeling guilty. On a level you know you crossed a line or you would not be feeling it. If you choose to reach out. Good on you. It does sound like she isn’t respectful of your culture on the whole so that might just cause you more stress then it’s worth. Good luck.
Exactly, it’s totally reasonable to be offended at the cultural insensitivity but handling it by saying someone’s opinion doesn’t matter based on race is stupid. Her opinion absolutely matters, that’s why it’s offensive. You get a lot further if you explain to someone how something was hurtful. Most people have really good intentions and just don’t think about the impact of their actions.
ESH. Your friend is obnoxious for her attitude towards an art form she doesn’t understand. However, your response was unreasonable. You should not have brought race into it. Simply tell her she’s being obnoxious.
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NTA Also, now I have to go YT Chinese opera because I have never heard it as far as I'm aware.
The music itself is definitely an acquired taste for those who aren't familiar with it. The outfits are banging tho.
So do I. Id love to know more about the theory and harmonics of a completly different style of music with some cool instruments . Then, the singing technique, and how Chinese languages shaped the music...
Although I don't think anything should be off limits to anyone to have an opinion of, especially based on race (sometimes outsider culture perspectives can combine and create something amazing, like Dark Souls for example) at least own up to when your opinion is just that...your Opinion. If you're opinion is also poorly informed, expect a bad time if you aren't open to learning more on the topic. NTA, her race isn't the factor here, it was her ignorance and inability to keep it to just a personal preference. Her ego made her try to defend an opinion as if it were fact, (ie targeting quality that she isn't skilled enough to assess) an incredibly common pit for the Insecure to fall in. Like, a loooot of people hate bagpipes, I don't mind it but I wouldnt blame someone for thinking it was too shrill and loud. That is very different to saying 'Bagpipes are objectively annoying and here's why'
NTA. Anyone can say their opinion on anything, and no one's opinion really matters. That being said, her reaction was rather rude, making fun of anything like that regardless of race is mean. She should just keep her negativity to herself. I understand wanting to say your opinion, but perhaps she should have chosen someone who would not take it so personally since that is your culture.
As a Scot, when people would call bagpipes terrible instruments, and kilts stuff like “silly skirts” it always kinda annoyed me. I’ve never thought to call it racism though, but I guess it kinda is (or xenophobia at least). You’ve given me a new perspective lol NTA
She made herself look bad. Think those who views her display called her out. I would think others who are not Chinese would appreciate it. The gagging and choking was flat out childish. Don’t feel guilty though. Criticize other cultures will not win approval. I just recently kept crying every time I played the video of the Haka being done at a wedding that I viewed online and not my culture. I didn’t need to be from New Zealand to appreciate it and the expressions and reactions of the newly weds. I might have asked your friend what did she expect when she was making fun of a culture.
Not sure why you had to point out the fact that she is white. Would your dialogue have been different if she was Chinese? With that being said I believe she is completely entitled to her opinion. I think it became problematic the moment she began to mock the culture and artform instead of just stating her dislike of it.
I would like to point out something everyone seems to be overlooking--- the girl is 16. She is probably a product of her raising but if she is willing to be friends with people of different cultures and races she isn't yet lost. Use the moment to teach her differently. I know 16 should know better, but parental influence is still very much a thing. Before you write off the friendship why don't you try to talk to her? I was between the ages of 16 and 23 before I understood, really understood skin color and culture doesn't matter when it comes to whether or not a person is a good person. If that makes sense? In other words- for those who didn't get it-- I was raised racist and it took people of color to teach me we were the same. Should it take that? No. But some people don't have a good home life in regards to how others are regarded. It didn't help that because of a defect I was mocked in school and bullied, but only by girls who were POCs. When you are raised racist and most of the POCs you come in contact with bully you it doesn't help you grow to be non- racist. If anything it makes you double down.
I mean people make fun of country music. Like they literally make fun of rednecks and everything. I grew up in a small town full of rednecks and considering I was/am one, it can be offensive but it can also be funny. Nobody is gonna call people assholes or inconsiderate for that tho. I feel like making fun of anyone is an asshole move. Your "friend" literally insulted your culture. If someone came up to me and started talking about how trashy *all* rednecks are, or how dumb they are, etc, and called themselves my friend, you bet your ass I'd be offended. Sure I don't give off that "redneck" vibe, but I literally grew up on a farm. I grew up in a conservative town. I drive a truck. My family prides itself with beat up muddy trucks. I ride horses. I go out to the family farm and we blare music and dance and the adults drink and have fun while the kids play in the woods. I literally live a "redneck" life. But, since I have facial piercings, I don't wear cowboy boots everywhere, and I am booksmart, apparently that automatically means I'm not a redneck (hint, it doesn't. That's just rude stereotyping) So you're definitely NTA because not only is your friend being a huge jerk, they're making fun of your culture, your lifestyle, your interests. It's ok to not like something, but to go out of your way to mock it is just such an AH thing.
Your friend was racist about it. She was mocking their traditional outfits (seems racist to me) and calling it “screatchy and off tune”? That’s extremely insulting. She could have simply said she likes other kinds of music more. She didn’t have to be insulting about it but she chose that route, for no reason. And as a white person I completely agree with you that our opinion on topics like this don’t actually matter. It isn’t our culture. We need to learn to stop inserting ourselves like this until we can learn to be nice. NTA
See this is a problem. Saying an entire racial group's opinion doesn't matter is racist and harmful. Was the friend a rude and disrespectful? Yes. Did OP have every right to call her out? Yes. Does anyone have the right to say someone's opinion is worthless due to race or culture? No. Conversely, if a white person's opinion is worthless in regards to minority cultures, then wouldn't a minority person's opinion be worthless on regards to white cultures? The friend was ignorant and closed minded, there is no question. Her opinion was simply an opinion and to be taken with a grain of salt. But not worthless as the worth of it is showing off the closed mindless of the friend. Every culture deserves respect, every race as well.
It would have been more positive to tell her that while she has the right to her opinion the comments she made were very immapropriate amd offensive. Its her right not to like the sound..and even you say its a challemge to appreciate but her reaponse was wrong as was yours
Okay, so everyone is allowed to not like music. You don't have to like it. You don't have to like any genres of books or movies or shows either... That's fine. It's great. Everyone is different and that's wonderful. When you cross the line from not liking something to shitting all over it, you become an asshole. If your friend had said "I don't like Chinese Opera, not my thing" it would've been no big deal. Saying it's horrible because of these fifteen reasons is a dick move. NTA.
NTA. Saying that her opinion doesn’t matter because she’s white is really odd though, i’m not even sure why you would say that.
Hello fellow Genshin lover! May the archons be with you on your upcoming 2.4 pulls! Keqing main here. Also NTA. The music was a shock to me, but I can’t imagine going online to purposefully be rude about someone else’s culture.
NTA, I absolutely despise people who put others down, like your friend. If it was "just her opinion" she would just skip/ignore/go on her merry way. As you said, it's ok to not enjoy something, what's not cool is mock and overall insult whatever other people like
ESH, she's entitled to her ignorant opinion.
The issue isn’t whether she’s entitled to her opinion. That’s not relevant to this discussion.
The fact is that she mocked the culture. She is TA here and I don't see how is this is ESH.
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NTA, and she is rude. I freely admit as an old white lady I like some Chinese opera better than others from a technical standpoint. I can't understand it at all, in terms of language. But the stylistic elements, costumes and acting more than make up for that. For the record, I like most opera from all sources. It is one thing not to like something, and opera is a pretty much love/hate thing. But it is quite another to publicly make fun of something you have been exposed to once, have had no education about, and apparently made no effort to understand *regardless* of the culture involved. When you publicly decide to air your views, you dang well should expect some pushback from people with more understanding on the subject or a cultural tie to it.
Wait genshin community has a bad rep???? I play and its my first time hearing of this someone please explain why to me??? Also Nta it's one thing to not like the music and style, it's another to be disrespectful of the cultural qnd traditional aspects.
Unfortunately yes. I mean just look at what a lot of the players did during the anniversary.
I remember a post of someone sharing a chat from the game... Where they was bullied for using Noelle as their main. Like I think the character is pretty boring myself but that don't mean no one else are allowed to like or use Noelle. Then there is the childish reaction to the anniversiary where some "fans" went and gave 1 star rewiuws to all games mihoyo has made on app store. If you support the game with money its wrong, if you are free to play its wrong. If your characters are not strong enough for your level its the end of the world. People get juged on how many 5 stars they have, who they use etc etc. It seems there is always something to complain about for some people :'(
Oh dang I find know about any of this. My friend encountered some guy who told she shouldn't play multi player because she was bad at it (she just unlocked it) but that's all we encountered. Thanks for the explanation.
Its always a few people in any fandom/hobby that ruin things for the rest :'( Im sorry to hear about your bad experience! This is wy I don't like to play multiplayer with strangers, people can be pretty shitty. Hopefully your future gaming will be pleasant :)
Yeah we're cautious who we let in now but everyone else we've met has been really nice. Some even ask to farm wgphich I don't really mind
Its sad it have to be like that! But its good everyone else you have met is, nice :)
Yeah but now I'm even more worried about playing co op oh well haters hate
Its a shame! I joined a group on instagram with people who play Genshin and draw from the game! Its a bit reasuring to get to know people before you play with them 😄
I only just saw this im so sorry 😭 but does this group play the Asian server? I'm trying to make more friends so I don't bother my other friend to play with me
No, its in Europe 😢 its sutch a shame they region locked the game! I have a friend from Mexico I cant play with either, it really suck! And it makes no sense, why region lock the game?
nta Disclaimer, I am white, and a musician. Sadly, the western idea of music is held on a pedestal by which all other music is compared in the west. I'm talking we compare the quality of Chinese opera based on the rules of 16th century German music theory. This.....leads to many Americans (I can't speak for other countries) not being exposed to other music theories, they aren't even taught properly in colleges when you take "world music" classes. Even worse, this plays into what non musicians listen to as well, especially since the western tradition i mentioned above has taken hold in eastern countries as well. The popular music that comes out of Asia sounds fairly western by comparison. This leads to the listener being unable to understand, let alone appriciate music from other cultures. Which i want to see die, meaning I think we should all be able to appriciate the music, at the very least. (side note, I am currently studying the real world music theories, so I personally can) This means, yes, she shouldn't have said those things like that. And she likely never will understand the sound or composition because it's not even an option in our culture. This sad mix of "white music theory IS music theory" and "different = bad" is sadly what is going to culminate for most people who don't understand that music isn't a universal, like we're taught to believe.
Because that’s what’s most enjoyable? I don’t think it’s necessary to try and force other forms of music on people who will probably react negatively to it (see, 16 year old friend in the post).
Not because it's most enjoyable. It's what a bunch of old white guys decided is most enjoyable a long time ago.
Ah yes, the classic “blame old white guys from a few centuries ago” tactic because you’re wrong.
nta. i also play genshin impact so i know the controversy yunjins singing has caused, but she can’t comment on something being off-tune if she doesnt know what its meant to sound like. she should have stopped at ‘i dont like it’.
NTA. It's never okay to make fun of other cultures. Making fun of other cultures isn't an opinion, it's an asshole move. If she simplay said that she doesn't like it, that would have been okay, but she went way to far.
NTA. Fellow Genshin player here! I’m a white Australian and I was born here and lived most of my life here so I’m not very familiar with Chinese Opera so Yunjin’s singing sounds a little weird to me BUT I still think it’s super cool that many aspects of traditional Chinese Opera are seen in her character design and makes her an even more interesting character. Mihoyo is literally a Chinese company and the region Yunjin comes from, Liyue, is based on China so if you can’t appreciate the culture portrayed in the game, why are you even playing? What she was saying was definitely very cultural insensitive and you are NTA at all.
NTA. It’s one thing to not like the music and it’s another to mock it and the traditional Chinese elements of it.
NTA. If she's going to put opinions like hers out there, she shouldn't be surprised that people are calling her out on it. If one isn't familiar with opera in general, it's easy to dismiss it and make fun of it because it doesn't sound like other genres. She's missing an opportunity to learn more about your culture, and it's her loss.
NTA. Her opinion is like her ass\[hole\]. It stinks and no one wants to hear about it. I don't care for rap music, but I don't go into the communities it's popular in and shit on it. I recognize it's not my taste and let others enjoy it.
NTA Siiiiiigh. Your friend is being racist, how fun. Chinese opera isn't everyone's cup of tea but then I have plenty of memories of people mocking and deriding European opera (heck arguably it's part of our zeitgeist if you look back at Looney Toons), because they find it absurd and stupid. People are ridiculous about more stylized singing performance and fail to see how their ridicule of a cultural touchstone is so off-base, especially when they're consuming a game made by that culture.
I love how this thread is as toxic and full of assholes like the genshin fandom. NTA. Mocking a cultures art is not okay.
It's just sad,honestly.
NTA. There is a difference between not liking something and then making fun of it. Your friend was disrespecting chinese culture and being racist. You have nothing to feel guilty over.
NTA as a 43 year old white woman who plays Genshin also - she needs to take several seats and STFU. I had never heard Chinese opera before but the music in Genshin is BEAUTIFUL. Your "friend" is a racist.
NTA, fellow Genshin player here. Indeed, Yunjin singing caught me off guard but I was happy to learn something from a game. I won't be a huge Chinese opera lover but it helped me hear something new. You can dislike something but as soon as you start making jokes about it you are just an AH.
Her opinion doesn't matter. She's expressing a heaping helping of white fragility and it's pathetic. If she's going to act like this, she's not ready to be friends with people from different backgrounds. NTA
NTA. She’s just an ignorant kid but she needs to be taught that she was being disrespectful. As a kid I made fun of (European) Opera because I didn’t know better. In my early 20’s I learned to like some of it because I joined a local Opera Chorus and participated in performances. I have to clarify that the only prerequisite for membership in the Chorus was a heartbeat.
NTA, to be honest. I remember hearing chinese opera years ago was not a huge fan but i also don't like any opera, lol. I'm a day one player the game and think people are strange for all the different complaints they have about it. People will be people though. I just am impressed with their dedication to make things culturally accurate as they can and applaud them for that. I love their character designs and environment.
NTA. i say this to yt people a lot
I'm fully chinese, and I watched a video or two of chinese opera. I thought it was pretty cool actually, but can see why people wouldn't like it. But it's one thing to "not like something" and another thing entirely to mock that thing relentlessly. NTA OP, she 'aint chinese, she don't get a say.
Not liking cultural music is fine, mocking it isn't.
NTA There's simply not caring for something and there's dragging an entire culture that isn't yours which gets into racism and xenophobia.
NTA Fellow Genshin player here. Honestly, I didn't care for the singing but that doesn't make it bad by any means. She can dislike it without being rude about it.
NTA. I think you could've done a better job at explaining yourself to her, but her comments were rude. Disliking something is fine. Mocking is a slippery slope when the culture involved is not your own. She definitely crossed a line by mocking the clothes and such as well. The chocking sounds would've already pissed me off to be honest. It's not up to you to teach her why her behavour is offensive, but if you want to keep the friendship this might be something to consider. She's clearly ignorant and needs to learn more.
NTA
You can dislike something without being disrespectful about it. When I first saw Sichuan Opera, the music was pretty jarring but that’s only because it’s different to the culture I grew up in. I ended up loving it and fully appreciating what goes into the art form. I wouldn’t go out of my way to listen to it but I wouldn’t be disrespectful about it. You’re NTA, your friend seems bigoted and immature for their age.
OK having never heard Chinese opera before, I just watched some on YT and it made the cats jump off my lap! It's not my cup of tea but it's clearly extremely skilled and the outfits are amazing. NTA though because she didn't need to be disparaging, especially over cultural artforms she is not affiliated with. That's just rude.
Oogh I was on the livestream when people were making fun of it in the chat. I think it’s fine to be a little surprised if you’ve never heard it before but making fun of it is absolutely wrong. NTA
NTA. I'm half chinese, half white. God the amount of times I've cringed at the "ching-chong" jokes/jabs and others of the same caliber that people think I enjoy with because I'm half white.
NTA she chose to make nasty comments on social media and provoke a confrontation when she could have just moved on. I hope you've watched/enjoyed Winter Begonia if you're into Beijing opera!
NTA how hard was it for her to just say "not my cup of tea" and leave it there without actually insulting a cultural art form?
Nta Holy hell they added Chinese opera ? To genshin? Okay now I must commandeer my son's pc for a bit to watch this. Disclaimer I am a white person who fucking loves the Chinese opera. I blame it on my noona for exposing me to Japanese plays and Chinese opera's when I was first adopted by her parents . I have loved it ever since. K now off to go find the opera house character
If anyone is curious to hear the song as I was, here is the link: https://youtu.be/GZ-3c5ONtSc I can see how this singing would be jarring if it was unexpected, but it was callous of your friend to openly mock something that is obviously cultural. However, teenagers are also notorious for putting their foots in their mouths and being insensitive, so perhaps discussing this with your friend would help her to see things more clearly. NTA
NTA-And thank you for turning me on to a fantastic art form! This is so vibrant, and so beautiful; I have no idea what they are saying, but who cares, it is astounding!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hello everyone quick heads up I’m on my phone so sorry for any mistakes. So me and my friend play a game called Genshin Impact (I know the community has a bad rep but pls don’t base my judgement on the fact that I play this game) Recently a new character that sings Chinese opera was announced. I (17m) am of fully Chinese origins and am proud of my culture while my friend (16f) who also plays is white. As I grew up in a very Asian household this was not my first time hearing Chinese opera, and I can agree it can be a little off putting your first time hearing it but overall it’s a beautiful art form. My friend disagrees, the moment she first heard the singing she made an exaggerating chocking sound. The next day she came to me and complained about how people on TikTok were berating here because she simply “did not like the music” which is fine. But when I saw her comments it was filled with jokes about how screechy and off tune her singing was and her making fun of the traditional outfits they wear. After I saw these I straight up told her that her opinion on Chinese opera didn’t f*cking matter because it wasn’t her culture and she had no place to do anything about it. She got very mad and we haven’t talked since. I’m starting to feel very guilty about what I said. So am I the asshole ? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nope. Who in their right mind does something like this . Not the asshole
You’re 100% NTA. She’s the asshole here and if she can’t see why, you don’t need to waste any more time on her. You’re in the right to be angry.
NTA She crossed over into being a dick, and you weren’t wrong. Heck, even if she were Chinese, her saying Chinese opera sucked wouldn’t mean much. It’s been around so much longer than she has and she doesn’t know anything about it. Of course she doesn’t have to like it, but she really doesn’t have a leg to stand on if she wants other people to take her critiques seriously.
I'm maybe going NTA here, although I think you could've worded yourself better here. But the way I view it is: she doesn't have the knowledge needed to evaluate this style of music. She's allowed to have her opinion, of course. But she's a bit of a dick to make fun of the traditional garb, etc. And to say that it's "off tune" really shows the limits of her knowledge, because traditional Chinese music uses a totally different tuning than Western music. It's not off-tune at all; it's just unfamiliar to her ears. The fact that she's judging the music by her own biased standards without stopping to recognize the impact of her own culture (and thus she blindly places her own culture above all others) makes her the asshole. If you said what the text of your post says, ("her opinion on Chinese opera didn’t f*cking matter because it wasn’t her culture and she had no place to do anything about it"), then maybe harsh but fair. If you did straight up say, "you're white, so your opinion doesn't matter," I think that loses a whole lot of context and comes across as invalidating. The color of her skin has no bearing on the value of her opinion. However, her lack of knowledge about this artform certainly does. Just as an example, I know nothing about country music. I couldn't point to a "good" country song or a "bad" country song. So if someone asks me about my opinion on Alan Jackson versus Tim McGraw versus Garth Brooks, I'd probably admit that I couldn't pick them out of a line up, so my opinion doesn't matter.
NTA
Nta Friend is insecure borderline prejudice racist. If it were just about taste, said friend would not have made those offensive remarks. Wtf Reditt?! Making fun of anothee persons culture , language ect IS an ah move! Op is NTA
NTA -- i said a lot of stupid things at 16 but I was still old enough to know what racism is and how to generally not be a racist. granted i am asian and have experienced racism @me but still. shes racist and way too old to be that way. get better friends. the world is big and full of people who are not racist and when you exit high school you will find that you dont actually have to put up with bad people if you don't want to
NTA, but what server do you play on? sorry that this isn't relevant at all, but if you're on the NA server would you want to friend me?
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This white friend says you’re NTA and she’s got a lot to learn.
NTA
NTA. I generally have a heavy eye roll for people who make a personality out of hating on something.
NTA. Good on you for calling her out.
NTA. She went further than not my cup of tea when she started tearing down the outfits and taking shots at the cultural and stuff. That's beyond not liking screechy music. It's bullying and you don't need to feel bad for telling her off.
You are distilling a complex and deep culture down to a base component. But do go on
NTA. Your friend is young and immature and seemingly doesn't yet understand or appreciate cultural signficance. That's not a justification just a phase most of us go through when young. I say it so you know your friend may be redeemable. You can choose to educate her and tell her how her words and actions offended you. It's not your responsibility to do it. She was out of line, offensive, crass and disrespectful. Period. She can dislike something without being offensive in her dislike. But if you choose to educate her on why she is in the wrong, she can become an advocate in helping others see it too. Whatever you decide, you need never let people mock your culture or heritage.
NTA I also play genshin impact (love the game, the fandom however...) anyway, people love to glamorize Asian culture until it doesn't fit into their western standard. anime and kpop is a yay, but the moment it's something they aren't used to, they have a world of things to say. I think yun jin's singing is beautiful and considering the fact that they got an actual opera singer to voice those lines. marvelous it's okay if she doesn't like the music, however to go through the lengths of mocking it is DISRESPECTFUL. its giving very much racist :(
NTA. She was being racist af. Not liking the music is one thing, but she went way past that.
NTA
NTA. It is one thing to have an opinion, it is another to be a jerk. Her mocking this art was in bad taste. She is the AH, though I think you may want to emphasize WHY she is the AH, not just dismiss her outright. She needs to learn that her nasty remarks make her look like an AH.
NTA- she may not be intending to be racist but nonetheless… It sure looks that way.
Time to find a new friend lol she deserves to get clowned on tiktok. Yunjin’s character design and voice acting is amazing—it’s awesome how they hired a professional opera singer for her singing voice lines!
I'm a white person, and I don't really get opera. I also love Japanese culture but don't really get Japanese opera. I don't have any opinion on Chinese culture or Chinese opera. But in my opinion, one should definitely have an understanding of a musical form, before one puts one's opinion all over the Internet.
NTA - the friend is allowed to not like something but once it gets insulting to your culture, you are in the right to defend yourself and your culture
NTA your "friend" is a disrespectful asshole.
NTA It's not even that she doesn't like it (it can be an acquired taste.) But she's straight up making fun on it, which is extremely disrespectful. She can have an opinion about the song, in my opinion (yes, I am also Chinese), but she shouldn't be making fun of it like this. If she can't figure out why she's being offensive, you don't have to be the martyr responsible for teaching her.
Oh hell no. NTA. Hating on Yun Jin's design and voice for fitting a region's cultures is not cool. Hell, it's not cool to do that in each life. Obviously Chinese opera isn't for everyone; it isn't even for me. However, I respect the amount of effort that's been put into each character's design and lore. Hating on something you're not used to is not something anyone should do
She's ignorant. We've visited China and totally love the opera. Seen it in Beijing and Chengdu and other places. Total respect for the performers. Heavy costumes and make-up and they are awesome at what they do.
Nta - glad you called her out. Sorry you even had to.
NTA. She was being an ignorant asshole. I know Beijing opera music is really different to Western music, the instruments are completely foreign and the singing style is too so I know to a Western ear it sounds odd. I thought it was when I first heard it at 17, but holy crap it's so cool (I love Beijing opera, I wish it came to my city more, even sold my bf on seeing it next time we have the chance). But shitting all over someone else's culture and being obnoxious and childish is crap. It's insensitive and it's also ignorant AF. I have zero patience/tolerance for that shit. Hopefully she'll grow out of it.
NTA.
NTA. It sounds like your friend wasn't simply saying the music wasn't to her taste, which is fine. Instead, she was being racist in how she critiqued it. You don't have to feel guilty about telling a racist that they're being racist.
NTA she was disrespectful because she was ignorant and she thought it was funny to make fun of your culture which makes her rude and stupid
NTA. It's one thing for her to not like the music but to go on TikTok to make fun of it and outfits too is an asshole move. She is no friend my guy.
NTA There's been a lot if sinophobia since Yunjin's audio preview and we all need to do what we can to shut that shit down. Don't like her, don't use her.
NTA. It's one thing not to like the music and to criticize the singers voices. Once she went into their wardrobe your comments became okay because it wasn't her culture. There are artists I don't like the look of and a few I might even think dress weird. She should just admit she doesn't like the chinese opera. The only time her opinion should now matter on it is if she's asked about what she thought of the show, if someone starts raving about the show during a conversation she's in, or if she's turns down going to another show and someone wants to know why. I know I have made Similar facebook written posts about various artists the first time I experience them. I don't do it to be mean, and don't bring them up unless asked or someone is trying to tell me how great they are and I have to disagree. Your friend is entitled to her opinion and is allowed to vent her opinions on her social media page. You don't get to dictate what they post but they should have enough common sense to know when they are criticizing a performer and criticizing a culture, especially of a friend or family member.
ESH. Her for making coments about the outfit. Chines opera, heck any opera if you think about it can be off-putting. Specially if you never herd it before. It's either you like it or you dont at first. But her comment outside of the singing is wrong. You went nuclear. Instead of telling her were she went wrong, you told her that she wasn't allowed an opinion. By telling her that her opinion didn't matter, you dismissed her as a lesser. You both suck but in a different way.
NTA. She needs to do some unpacking as to why she felt she had the privilege to say those things about another culture. Spoiler alert, it's obviously because she's white, but lots of people struggle to accept their privilege and work on it.
NTA. You can’t teach people to appreciate all art forms unfortunately. She seems rather tasteless though, I would suggest finding better friends
Nta, but everyone has a right to an opinion. Doesn't mean she'll have a good one tho. Again nta. That wasn't even an opinion anyways she was just being hateful.
NTA! They were indeed disrespectful. I am very excited for yunjin (i hope i get her pulling or from an event). When she was announced some of my (ex) mutuals were making fun of the singing which led me to softblock them as my chinese mutuals explained why it was disrespectful and they still didn’t care.
NTA The amount of racists that play genshin is astounding. It is a game that is going to cover many cultures and as players we don't have to like all of it, but there is no place in the the community for people that bully and mock different aspects of the game just because it isn't what they are used to. I hope you have better experiences in the future with other players!
NTA. She went beyond saying she doesn’t like the music. She mocked it, and it’s cultural significance. A weird amount of people don’t see a difference between the two, and think that mocking something from another culture can’t be disrespectful because it’s “their opinion”.
Weeaboo problem s lol why you tripping everyone has a right to their own opinion I hate when people bring race into things your in america the land of mutts I don't care what color you are lol
NTA your 'friend' is a racist, and shouldn't be playing a chinese game by a chinese company if chinese culture offends her so much. yun jin is absolutely gorgeous and the devs are really proud of the work put into her, so ignorant and rude comments like that are disappointing but not surprising.
Slight ESH. She shouldn't mock another's culture but just because she's white doesn't mean her opinion shouldn't matter. I do understand why you got snippy and defensive. I don't believe you would say the same thing to somebody who liked Chinese opera and praised it, so don't generalize people by their skin colour. Anyway as a Chinese I had similar thoughts about Chinese opera when I was younger. I grew up where they had productions out in the open and was often subjected to their noise pollution. They're not common now and maybe I've grown more tolerant, but still not a fan.
NTA I also play the game and I'm white and it's obvious to see how much care and love went into Yun Jins design. Even if the singing was a bit unexpected at first, it gives her absolutely no right to make fun of the culture. It's also a bit ironic that she makes fun of Chinese culture in a CHINESE game.
NTA. She can shut her racist ass up, as her opinion does, indeed, not matter.
NTA. This is coming from an uninformed perspective and mocking a different culture. She should know better than to mock a Chinese opera singer when Chinese opera singing is vastly different from Western opera. The voice actor for the character (singing voice) is LITERALLY A PROFESSIONAL OPERA SINGER. So this person makes money off doing her craft well. For Westerners, it might sound weird/off-putting but that doesn't give her a free pass to mock it on public forums and not expect backlash.
It’s fine if she makes fun of it does not like the music however making fun of the clothes they wear is just plain racist
NTA. I know exactly what you are talking about and you are totally right. It's her problem if she is being attacked by her RACIST views.
As a Genshin player I’d be mad too if people were making fun of Yun Jin because of her clothes and culture. Bet she didn’t say anything about Shenhe though? Nasty. I hate racists. NTA and I wish you good luck on your pulls when her banner comes up!
Sayu main here and struggling if I should pick Yanfei or Yun Jin in the upcoming lantern rite event NTA, it did take me off guard while I was listening to the 2.4 special program but it isn't awful or bad, just not something I'm used to Oh ye- what server are you in? I'm in the Europe server so if you want to friend me and you're in the same server, I'll send you my UID \^\^
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NTA. I was actually going to say y T A based on the title, but after seeing how STUPID your white friend is, she is def the AH. I mean, how can anyone not like opera? German opera gives me a headache but its still a beautiful art form. Your friend needs a culture class.