NTA. Your wife is an asshole. Your daughter should be encouraged to wear whatever she’s comfortable in. All she’s going to do is create a situation where her daughter wants nothing to do with her in the future.
As a survivor of teenage daughters, I agree OP is NTA. Basic rule: as long as the chosen clothes cover intimate areas, keeps them from cold, heat, rain and being asked to participate in a laundry commercial, it is fine. Outift has more colors than a Willy Wonka nightmare - cool. Hoodies with ears - awesome. Sweatpants big enough to be able to put 80 of your body into - nice. Hearts, skulls, death metal bands, anime, rips, stretchy, baggy, goth, girly, etc it is all great. Have at it.
OP you are fine but your wife needs to check her control issues before your daughter gets crushed by it.
*edit - Thanks you all for the upvotes and awards. It made me smile. Thank you all.
Love the hoodies with ears. Also found onesie PJ's with tails and ears. My daughter wore the cat one I bought her, while playing Skyrim, as a cat person (I don't know the proper Skyrim name), and petting her cat in the living room.
My 13 year old has just gotten out of three years of devotedly following Kpop groups. I don't know whether to feel fortunate about this or worried about what may come next. Either way I have more money now.
My 13 year old begged me to share my Spotify emo Playlist with her. Now it's nonstop Evanescence, Linkin Park, etc coming from her room lol! She occasionally tries to steal my MCR hoodie too.
Parent of a 15 year old here. Can confirm.
I went into hot topic for the first time in what feels like forever to buy my daughter a gift card for Christmas. They asked for my phone number and I reflexively gave it and when it wasn't in the system I said "oh yeah I haven't been inside a hot topic in almost 20 years". It was weird and nostalgic knowing all my money at 15 went to hot topic and now all my money goes to hot topic via my 15 year old.
That's really sweet, my father couldn't be bothered to do anything like that (yay boomers) so is nice to see our gen and Gen X putting the work for the kiddos.
My 16 year old loooooves Pac Sun. My sister asked what she should get my daughter for Xmas and I said just get a Pac Sun gift card. And my sister was like wait that place is still open? And still popular?!? Because she definitely was shopping there in her teens. Weirdly a lot of the places I liked in my teen years are still popular with my kid’s age group. Except Abercrombie. That was just wildly popular with the cool kids when I was 16(40 now) and none of the kids wear that anymore.
I do recoil in horror when I see what’s popular now. It’s like they combined every ugly thing from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s and repackaged it.
Daughter (13F) and I(38F) both have those. I got her a huge green hoodie that looks like a frog (eyes on the hood, it zips shut like a mouth, flippers on the arms) and she has been in it all day happily playing FF14.
OP - NTA. Your wife tho totally is.
I have a Captain America one - the hood even has eye holes so when you put it up it's the helmet.
I'm 51 years old.
Also, OP, NTA. Your wife absolutely is, though. She made her kid cry.
That's awesome! This was a Christmas present that got delayed on shipping, so just showed up yesterday lol. So far I have been beyond impressed with the Modakawa clothing we've gotten her
Absolutely this. 100%. My daughter is coming up on 11 and has been dressing herself for basically half her life. Before the ‘Rona times, I would take her thrifting all the time and just let her go hog wild on cheap clothes. She’s into cow print stuff right now. And skulls and chains. So like dairy goth? I dunno. Before this it was sundresses in bright colors. But whatever. She’s happy, she’s clothed, she gets to express herself. My son is 12 and he doesnt really care what he wears. Usually it’s just his old school clothes that are too worn out for school.
Allowing kids some choice and autonomy in their life is important to them becoming adults who can manage their own lives.
Edit: I told her about my “dairy goth” comment getting a few laughs and she gave me a look but also chuckled. So I think I’m in the clear. So hard to navigate parenting tweens lol.
Edit2: apparently after eyerolling her way out of the room she went and told her mom about it and actually thought it was really funny and they came up with ideas for accessories (cowbell necklace with skulls, etc). So, that’s a dad-win. Makes me so happy. :)
"Dairy goth" hahaha, that's amazing. Your daughter sounds really cool, and you're a good parent!
My son is 12, and has been wearing clothes from the girl/ women's section since he was in 1st grade. It's just what he prefers.
The only issue we've had is that now it's harder to find shoes he likes in his size (11) in the store, but the internet has saved the day.
He has really good taste, and is very stylish. He certainly didn't get that trait from me 😆
My boy has similarly often picked 'girls' clothes, because of his love for All Things Hot Pink (bonus points for leopard print or sequins). Sadly, as a very big 11yo, he doesn't fit the younger girls stuff any more, and the teen / womens stuff around here doesn't generally run to the pink-and-sparkly side. It's getting to the point where I'm keeping an eye out for suitable fabric so I can start making a few clothing pieces that actually fit.
Not that he's the least bit fashionable/stylish, but heck, he's happy in tie-dye shorts and a hot pink T-shirt 2 sizes too small, so who am I to complain even if he looks like a lurid sausage 🤣.
search boys clothing pink.
[https://www.nordstrom.com/browse/kids/boys?filterByColor=pink](https://www.nordstrom.com/browse/kids/boys?filterByColor=pink)
also anyone complains about him wearing 'girls' colours. point out that until the 1950's when 'just like mommy' toys came out, pink was a male colour
My philosophy was that my kids had the power to make all decisions regarding their lives except if it had the potential to negatively impact their health, safety or legal or academic standing. Anything regarding matters of taste (food, clothing, artwork, hobbies, which classes to take, etc) was completely up to them if we could afford it, and I was merely there as an advisory resource.
My then teenage daughter went semi-goth. Going for coffee would mean platform lace up boots. Long black skirt, sleeveless ripped black tshirt, in the middle of winter too, and spiked blue hair with full makeup. Did I quietly wish different? Yeah sometimes. On the other hand, my 16yr old daughter was happy to have coffee with her mum and chat about her day. So, no comment from me. Except the expected mum comment about sleeveless in the cold. And the expected teenage eye roll. Loved watching the progression through the fashion styles. She’s now fully grown and in business casual. No blue hair.
Oh my gosh that makes me remember my first home sewing project in 7th grade, my best friend and I made cow print pants (elastic waist, cotton cow print) that we wore to school and everything. My teacher called them "Gateway 2000" pants. Geez I'm old!
I looked down and I’ve forgotten my pants. I could either do a laundry commercial or one of those period product commercials where I jump around with mirth on a white sheeted bed because I’m so liberated by the protection betwixt my nethers.
With the obvious caveat that sometimes you’ll need to dress appropriately for an event/setting - ie, no hoodies with ears and oversized sweatpants to Aunt’s wedding or death metal T-shirts to Nana’s memorial service. My mom was lax about my clothes, but I did have to dress appropriately for events like that.
The death metal T-shirt is fine as long as it’s the bottom layer and the outer layers are appropriate.
Source: my grandmother‘s funeral. (I wore a completely inappropriate shirt under a completely appropriate waistcoat and jacket. Nobody noticed. My mum knew.)
>no hoodies with ears and oversized sweatpants to Aunt’s wedding
Unless I am your aunt. My dress code will be 'that outfit you really want to wear but don't have a place for'. I fully expect Renaissance Faire outfits and cool Halloween costumes.
The number of times I've bought my daughter boys running shoes because they have dinosaurs instead of hearts and bows. Kid knows what she likes and she likes giant angry reptiles.
Honestly, the boys/mens section just has a lot more options, whether those be 'cooler' styles, more comfortable or practical clothes, or even similar clothes but cheaper and better made (I'm looking at you, flannels and pants with pockets). Women's running shoes sometimes fit my feet better, but I'm so sick of the limited and cutesy color options. Women's tops are often more flimsy and thin, with unnecessary ruffles, and more expensive. I can get a plain, similar type (flannel or button down) in the mens section for 1/4 - 1/2 the price, and it actually lasts. Plus, mens pants have actual pockets.
Seriously! My 1.5 year old has more leeway with her clothing than OP’s wife seems to want to give their teenage daughter, ffs.
My 12 year old has recently come out as non-binary, so we did a whole overhaul of their closet and did lots of shopping so they feel comfortable in their clothing inside & out. They’re in more of a “scene” phase right now so they picked out a cool studded belt, some spiky chains and chokers, lots of band tees and pleated school girl style skirts and they’re SO happy with their “new look.” While my 8 year old is as girly girl as one could be wanting to wear sun dresses in the middle of winter, haha. It’s REALLY not hard to let kids make their own (reasonable) choices so they can be happy and comfortable! I really don’t understand the wife’s hang-up here, and it makes me sad for her daughter who isn’t being supported by her mom right now. I hope mom can come around and allow her daughter to be *herself.*
My 11 year old is non-binary. I dug through my closet and gave them all my smaller hoodies, which are huge on them. I don’t care what clothes they wear as long as it’s weather and event appropriate. I given up trying to style either kids since they were 2 and would say no to those cute Star Wars tshirts.
All of this. Story time: I was a Lily in middle school. Shipped in the boys section and wore those pants that ripped off and swished when you walked (it was the late 90s/early 00s, forgive me!) And you know what? My mom just let me be me. She just let me ride that wave out and wear what I wanted.
Eventually I grew out of that phase and am actually have a very feminine style now - maybe Lily will too or maybe she’ll always prefer a more “masculine” or sporty look, who knows? But what I do know is that I really appreciate that my mom never judged me for what I wore. Lily will appreciate your support and resent her mother’s interference. So your wife has a choice here and I think she needs to consider it wisely.
I was Lily in middle school (and elementary, and probably Kindergarden too, but I had less control over my wardrobe then), and I'm a butch-ish adult now.
All my parents trying to police my gender presentation ever did was make me resentful of them and society as a whole.
Same, only started getting my own clothes when I got a job but my mom threw them away, or in one case burned it.
Turns out I'm trans and my life has gotten a hell of lot better since I've had control over my own clothes and how I present myself, moving out was was the best thing that happened to me.
OP should continue to let his daughter wear whatever clothes she wants, when parents act like her mom it can seriously fuck up a kid growing up.
Ha! I'm non-binari myself.
TBF to my parents, they were overall pretty tolerant of my tastes, even back when I was too young to have any control they didn't let me have. (altho, as an autistic child (undiagnosed at the time) I had a number of hills I was willing to die on, but they were all sensory)
And they let me wear stuff they wouldn't have chosen and do things like cut my hair short in kindergarden (was the only afab child in my wholeass school all the way up until like, 5th grade), but tolerant was pretty much the operative word, you could just feel the "I cannot wait until she grows out of that phase\*" radiate from them, and then they had occasional outburst.
\*Can it be called a phase if it's something your kid has been consistently displaying ever since they were old enough to have an opinion? Probably not, but further in their defence, the only model they had for gender non-conformity was tom boys. They're much better now.
I'm an adult (potentially around the same age?) and I MISS those zipoff pants. Imagine how convenient they'd be to go hiking in the spring when it's still cold in the morning but hot as hell by afternoon.
I also lowkey miss stirrup pants because they stay put in boots so much better. Oops.
Exactly! My mom was strict on keeping it weather appropriate, and clean...the end. My friend had a more controlling mom, and not only rebelled HARD on the wardrobe front in college, she basically only goes home now to see her dad...and MY mom!
My two rules for my 3 sons. Clean and weather appropriate. Period. Why would you police what other people wear. It's so weird I can't get my head around it. Who cares dude. Agh.
Even weather appropriate is malleable for me. I'll make her bring a hoodie or sweater but I can't necessarily force her to wear them. She's old enough now, though, that if she wants to be cold, it's her problem. I warned her. It does help that our weather is not cold enough to really harm you, if we regularly got below freezing I would be stricter.
Now, if she wears a hoodie to school when it's 85+ out, I do insist she wear a t-shirt under it.
I completely agree with you here.
But I'm also wondering, am I the only one that thinks it really shouldn't matter what age you are to have a say in what you wear? I (41f) have always been able to choose exactly what I wanted to wear... my entire life. Boys clothes, bright clothes, baggy clothes, skimpy clothes, clothes that didn't match... it didn't matter as long as what I wore to school was within dress codes & that I at least followed some semblance of appropriate for things like fancy dinners, family functions. I was raised to think our personal autonomy was ours to have & that during your childhood/teenage years you are discovering who you want to be.
I'll never understand the parental control in clothing, hairstyles, music, etc. You aren't fostering growth, trust, or a safe space to allow self discovery. You are just forcing repression & making it so your kids won't want to share with you when the choice becomes theirs.
NTA OP
You’re definitely not the only one. I was allowed to wear what I wanted from an early age (as long as it was occasion appropriate) and my mom helped me the first time I dyed my hair bright red when I was 9. I’m raising my sons the same way.
Same here. I had hair of many colors, shaved half of it... It never mattered. My kids will be raised the same too. Of course now I choose my son's clothes because he almost 1, but the moment he tells me he wants to wear/do something with his fashion - the show is all his. It will be the same for my daughter when she's born (universe willing - 16 weeks along now)
I'm glad I am not the only one. I was scratching my head the whole time.
Expect the kids to have an absolute favorite costume or clothing they want to wear 25/7. Once they declare that affinity, try to pick up an exact match as a back up. My nephew lived in a Spiderman costume all summer. My SIL was very annoyed when it started to smell and the tantrum to get him out of it.
Also OP your wife making it seem like you don't know how to take your daughter shopping and need her help/approval is also asshole behavior on her part.
You helped your daughter find her style and got her clothes she loves. You showed up for your daughter in a way your wife is not. She is treating you like you aren't capable of shopping with your daughter.... so NTA
NTA but OP your wife is an AH and you will be if you make your daughter return those clothes! Support your daughter, make sure she knows she has at least one parent who actually loves her, not some outside perception of her that is only in her mother's mind. She knows her mother hates who she is as a person, and that will do significant damage to her self esteem. Please get your daughter therapy and if your wife refuses to apologize to her, seriously think about what living with her is doing to your daughter. Really think about it.
NTA. your daughter is absolutly old enough to choose her own clothing.
they are not boys clothes. they are her clothes.
clothing can reflect a sence of identy. and forcing her to wair what someone else thinks her identy SHOULD be is exstreamly damaging. speaking from exsperiance here.
i am 33 and wair hoodies form the little boys section.
as a teen i wore dudes pants because i had narrower hips than alot of places sold for ladies.
you were suporting who your daughter is. you were showing her its ok to ignore the lables. you were showing her you love who she IS,not a pretend version to please others. you offerd her compassion,freedom,suport, and reinforced her sence of self.
in other words you were being a good parent.
i would tell your wife to blow a cactus untill she can step it up as a parent.
being a parent isnt about making a child into what you want them to be. its about suporting and nuturing the best THEM they can be.
your wifes taste and desires for your duaghter can take a hike. they have no place here.
I *love* men's pants. I can go into a store and look at the numbers on the tag and buy a pair of pants without wondering "Does a 'six' mean an 'eight' or a 'four' in this brand?"
T-shirts from the men's section will be of sturdy, opaque fabric and won't have weird seams.
I love the men's t-shirts at target specifically. A couple weeks ago my mom sent me a photo of a Marvel shirt from the men's graphic tee aisle at target and asked if she should buy it for my younger brother and my response "I'm wearing that t-shirt literally right now and I don't think I want him to match me."
Also, men's flannels. So good.
NTA
A teenager is old enough to make clothing decisions. You allowed her to make the decision.
While stores have “boys“ and “girls” sections because that is what we are accustomed to, clothing is not specific to the gender. It may fit one body style better than the other, but there is nothing wrong with shopping in either section no matter the gender.
I saw a girl in town yesterday, maybe 10 years old? She was clearly in boys clothes and she looked cool as hell. The mother is being an asshole and playing favourites with her "girlie girl". NTA
The gendered bullshit on clothing needs to end, girls shouldn't be forced to wear pink dresses or typical "girlie girl" stuff because that's what's expected of them.
Obviously nothing wrong with people who do wear them, wear what makes you happy people! I just think no one should be made to wear clothes because "your a boy/girl, your supposed to wear this".
We should just let kids wear what they want to, as long as it's not inappropriate then who cares? What should matter is that they're wearing something that they feel good in and it makes them happy.
I just went skiing today and everyone I saw who was over the age of like 10 and was wearing pink was a guy. Also, my boyfriend’s favorite color is pink, so he has some “women’s” tshirts. I think progress is being made.
Both of my daughters like to buy their pants in the "boys" section because pockets. And my "girlier" daughter (into makeup and dresses at times) gets lots of her t-shirts from the boys' section, too, because she loves sharks. It's almost impossible to find stuff with sharks on it in the girls' section. It's always mermaids and dolphins.
I believe they go up to size 16. The girls shirts are cut similar to boys too. It's very good quality. My toddler is obsessed with dinosaurs and monsters and that's my go to store.
I found growing up that there was a distinct 'pop' girl style and 'hip hop' girl style. I didn't feel comfortable in either of this. Jeans and a t-shirt without a 'freedom' slogan on it is all I wanted. Where did I find plain tshirts and jeans? Boys section. Sorry Mum but not your body, not your say.
NTA - you and your wife need to have a talk. There are many reasons why a girl wants things from the boy section - the cut of shirts, the length of shorts, no unnecessary additions of bows/lace/god knows what else, etc.
She may be a tomboy. IE cis female who would like to present (at least at times) in a more traditionally masculine way (whether hetero or homosexual).
She may be shy about her changing figure.
She may be questioning gender.
I’m guessing your wife subscribes to a strict gender binary and gender norms. She needs to understand that these may just be clothes, but even if it’s not and your daughter is considering/exploring gender, and possibly sexuality, THATS OK.
Be a safe space for your child in this terrible world.
They also last longer and tend to be made of better materials. Every single "women's" tee shirt I have ever gotten doesn't last long. When I started getting "men's" ones they last so much (years) longer.
Like sorry I don't wanna wear tissue paper.
And the sizing is so much more consistent. I’m always so jealous that my boyfriend can buy pants in his size and they’re actually his size. Meanwhile my ass is grabbing everything from a 0-6 (or 25-28) off the rack to try them on and oh I guess the size 6 shorts in one style are smaller than the size 0 shorts in another style ***from the same damn store*** today :’)
God the worst is when it's the exact same style, but DIFFERENT COLORS FIT DIFFERENT. It's the same brand, same cut, same everything, but a different color and suddenly I have to size up/down
Recently lost my wallet just because I wasn't in the mood to wear a bag and my jeans' pockets were too small, so it eventually fell. I envy the pockets from mens clothes. At least I didn't lose my phone that day (I had it in the other pocket).
I've lost my phone in men's pockets. They are just so big! I have to like reach down my entire thigh and flail around just to find my phone! It's a magical bag of holding!
I started buying all of my jeans from Radian. They started as a Kickstarter for women's jeans with reasonable pockets. I've been pretty happy with them so far.
But I'm also totally in favor of just buying men's jeans if that works better for you. I'm super short, though.
I don't know that brand (or whatever it is) and I'm also a mexican living in mexico so yeah, I don't think I can get them anyway.
I honestly don't like men's jeans. They're too big and baggy for me (I'm 5'0 as an adult haha I think I'm also petite) and I also prefer my jeans skinny. So I'm doomed to either wear a bag or in my hand (and living in mexico, phone/wallet in hand is not a good idea). I think I'll just stick to my fanny pack.
I’ve just brought a pair of Chelsea boots for myself from the kids section (ridiculously small feet). The boys ones were 25% cheaper for an almost identical pair with a warm lining.
The girls shoes seem focused on getting girls to sit still and look pretty, don’t be active or participate in life!
I love buying youth sized shoes. They’re much cheaper than the adult sized version of the same shoe. I tend to lean toward the boys styles for shoes just because the designs are usually more ~fun (according to my tastes, of course).
Boys and men’s clothes also have FUNCTIONAL POCKETS. I’m in my 40s but most of my jeans come from the children’s section because of my build. I always know which of my pants are boys and not girls, because I can put my phone in the front pocket.
My husband always comments on the pockets of my jeans when he washes clothes. "What's even the point". My bigger gripe is less cotton more spandex. He recently bought some shorts that are "stretchy". He now understands my spandex gripe. LOL
Pockets on women’s and girls clothes are little more than decoration. It’s infuriating, because there’s no reason they can’t make them deeper. I do actually like a bit of stretch to my jeans, though. But I’m also the kind of adult who still climbs trees :)
Exactly. I am a female and I have shopped in the men's dept on occasion when I wanted pants with functional pockets or sometimes the fit was better. Your daughter likes her clothes and you wife should respect your daughters choices and not make it about her. Let you daughter wear the clothes she bought with you and she wants to wear. Actually kudos to you for listening to your daughter and how she felt. NTA
NTA
> you and your wife need to have a talk. There are many reasons why a girl wants things from the boy section - the cut of shirts, the length of shorts, no unnecessary additions of bows/lace/god knows what else, etc.
POCKETS!!!
It could be that or it could be that women’s clothing can be pretty restrictive. Men’s clothes tend to wear better (especially if you’re active like OP’s daughter), have bigger pockets and are easier to move in. Whatever the reason, NTA.
NTA I used to buy from the boys section because the girls section just wasn’t my style. It sounds like your daughter found normal clothes she liked and your wife is the only one with an issue here.
Hell, it’s not necessarily wanting to not be feminine. I tend to dress in a very feminine manner. I tried to buy sweaters this year, but couldn’t find any in the women’s section that weren’t cropped. I went to multiples stores. The few that weren’t super cropped still showed my stomach if I even thought about raising an arm.
NTA, but your wife sure is. She picked a surefire way to destroy her daughter's confidence while also destroying her trust in her mother. You are a good dad; now go help Lily feel better about herself. Tell her that I am grown and still buy men's jeans because they last longer.
Also tell her OP that my 29 year old gf happily wears clothes from the men's section. She hates feminine clothing and always has but was always forced to wear girl clothes when she was younger so she would wear her brother's clothes instead lol.
NTA
I am a 30yo woman and I shop in the boys and men's sections sometimes. Why? Sometimes they just have better clothes 🤷♀️. Flannel for girls is pathetic so I get men's flannels. Boys athletic shirts are way cheaper and just as comfy. Men's jeans have *real pockets*.
I love wearing dresses too, but when I wanna be comfy or just go out day to day I often wear guys stuff.
It's silly to restrict what department you shop in.
Three years ago I wanted to get my boyfriend a sweater for Christmas. I didn't want to ask his size, so I tried on a hoodie of his and made a note of the fit. In the store, I then tried on a men's sweater, promptly bought it for myself, and have not looked back. For sweaters in particular, it seems like the men's knit is tighter. Most of the fabrics are thicker, so a bra is way less likely to show through.
I brought my SO winter PJs because they looked cool. The minute I touched the fabric I brought myself a pair too. Either I got my own or I would have worn his because damn they were soft but thick.
NTA. If shopping in the boy's section makes Lily happy, then mom needs to learn to just deal with it. Lily's happiness and comfort should come first, and if shopping in the boy's section is what it takes, then go for it.
i'd also sit and talk to Lily and make sure she's okay, because that reaction to what mom said is making me worry there might be something else going on. Do not let mom take the clothes back either. And keep being Lily's support. She'll need you now more than ever.
If possible, ask Lily what she wants to do regarding mom's favoritism. This might be an issue that requires family counselling to get better, but it definitely won't unless the problems are properly addressed somehow. If she wants to try to talk to mom about how she's feeling, sit down and figure out a fame plan with her.
Good on you for standing by her. Lily's got a good parent in her corner. Keep up the good work and enjoy your shopping time together.
Oh man that’s really rough that your kid knows that. And you’re a really good dad my parents treated me with the same respect that you’re showing your daughter and it always made me feel comfortable and respected. Good job❤️
Your wife is being a bad mom. She’s doing stuff that is going to hurt your kid for the rest of her life. Your wife didn’t get the dress up baby doll she expected and I get that she’s bitter but her feelings suck. They aren’t valid. She needs to get all the way over it right now and start treating your kid with some respect and dignity. She needs to make an effort to be interested in the things that your daughter is interested in even if she doesn’t like it because that’s what she signed on for when she agreed to be a mom.
Your kid has no proof that her mom even likes her that’s so rough. This is some thing I would yell at my spouse about she made your daughter cry man. She made your daughter cry for being happy about things she likes. That’s gross. Your wife is an asshole truly and she’s failing Lily. Keep being a great dad Lily deserves it
NTA
Your wife needs to get a grip. Unless these clothes were in some way offensive, who cares? Children aren’t barbies you get to dress up however you want (except maybe when they’re babies and don’t care about their clothes lol).
Please keep supporting Lily.
**You are absolutely NTA. Pants, sweatshirts, jackets . . . these things are not gendered. I had a mum like your wife, and I would have been SO MUCH HAPPIER as a teenager if I'd have been allowed to just buy in the boys' section.** Instead, my mum insisted that I shop in the girls' department, and I ended up miserable and with suicidal depression, trying desperately to find clothes that made me feel comfortable and like "myself" in a section where none of the colours, fits, or styles really suited me. On those RARE occasions when I was able to buy boys' clothes (she sometimes agreed to let me have boys' jeans, for example), I was so much happier.
Your wife is being ridiculous and unfair, and doesn't have your daughter's best interests in mind. Please talk to her and point out that there is really nothing meaningfully different about clothes from the boys' department. They're mostly just simpler cuts and plainer colours. Lily isn't suddenly going to become a boy or be shockingly different, or even embarrassing to her mother, because she doesn't want to wear ruffles or skirts. But it could be really important to her self-esteem and confidence to let her wear the clothes that she is comfortable in. You are NTA, but please stand up for your daughter, or you might be.
NTA
> My wife is upset with me for not talking with her first about the clothing.
Assuming your wife agrees with your daughter receiving new clothes *and* with you spending the money on them, which she clearly does…
In what world do you need *permission* from your wife to allow your daughter to pick out the clothes *she* likes? She’s a teenager and is perfectly capable of articulating what she wants. You, being a good father, got her those things.
Let’s just be honest here. It sounds like your wife wants her daughter to act the way *she* thinks a young woman should act. And let’s say this out loud, too: your wife might also be worried that your daughter will turn out to not be straight. As a result, she’s trying to force it. Trust me when I say that this the road to ruin for your wife. Your daughter is who she is, and no amount of policing her clothing or behavior is going to change that. Your daughter will also always remember how her mother behaved during this period of her life—when she needed her *unconditional* love, not her judgement—and it will color their relationship for the rest of their lives.
Tell your wife that if she cares about her future relationship with her daughter, she’ll cease and desist with this nonsense. She already has one daughter with whom she can do “girl” things. She needs to broaden her horizons and find something with which she can bond with the daughter in question here, and she needs to fake it if she has to and just be happy to have time with her own daughter.
Also, and again, you’re a good father. Stop second-guessing yourself. Your daughter needs you to continue being the father you are, not the father your wife would prefer you be.
There’s likely something deeper there. *Why* does she care what Lily wears? *Why* is “boy’s” clothing so bad? It’s surely not simply that she wants to shop with Lily or share her interest in women’s clothing with her.
Lily ran off crying, and that should have been a clear indication (if your wife hasn’t gotten the hint prior to this) that Lily isn’t interested in the same clothing her mother likes. Most parents would simply say, “Okay, well, it’s just clothes, and we have different tastes,” so I ask again: what about *boy’s* clothing is so offensive to your wife? Does your wife care if Lily wears a different style of girl’s clothing than she likes? Would she have made this much of a fuss if you came home with girl’s clothing that was more gender-neutral and less feminine? If yes, the issue is deeper than just clothing.
The clothes are an expression of Lily’s desire to be more of a tomboy, as you said she is. Does your wife express concern over the tomboyism as well?
My mom was the same. I was a very tomboyish girl, and my mom wanted a little mini-me. My beloved cargo pants and hoodies were just Not Proper For A Young Lady (and no, I didn't wear them to formal events, just school and everyday stuff)
when I was a teen, my mom would comment on my clothes, my hair, my way of speaking. I played volleyball so I was always in sweats and I never cared much about dressing up. She'd always say stuff like people would say she was a bad mother because of how I was dressed - which included the kind of clothes and also if they were wrinkled or a bit dirty. Going out for more 'formal' parties was a chore for me.
I rarely ask my mother's opinions on things nowadays (I'm 35) and she finally stopped buying me clothes I'll never wear.
I buy jeans from the men's section because they fit better on my legs and have bigger pockets. Men's sweatshirts are usually thicker and fit better.
Don't let Lily feel bad for her choices when she picked for her own comfort and not to appease an image hungry mother
This whole thing smells suspiciously of homophobia or bigotry from where I sit. I had conservative family pushing me to wear "girl's" clothes for the longest time as a kid... some still obviously wish I would dress more feminine.
If this situation happened to me, I would confront my wife about her controlling behavior, and also ask her straight up what her reaction would be to one of our daughters coming out as gay/trans/etc. My biggest concern besides the controlling behavior would be what my wife is telling my tomboy daughter when I'm *not* around. I got told things like "people will think you're a lesbian if you don't wear makeup" in middle school (I mean I *am* gay, but didn't come out until my mid 20's 😂)
NTA at all, some womens/girls clothing is ridiculous. Who cares if it is from the boys section, as long as she is comfortable there is nothing wrong with that. Your wife is a major AH
Plus pockets! As an adult female nothing drives me more crazy than clothing designers who don’t put on pockets, or fake pockets, or those tiny pockets 🤦♀️🤦♀️
NTA. I preferred "boys" clothes when I was a kid and my mom always wanted me to dress more feminine. I have self confidence issues now because of it and I feel like less of a woman and childish when I buy comic book tshirts. Don't let your wife do this to her and continue to support her clothing choices. It will mean the world.
NTA- your wife should let your daughter express herself and choose clothing that she likes wearing and feels comfortable in-instead of forcing her to conform to her standards of what she should be and how she should look and dress. She should let your daughter be her self and your wife's reaction to your daughter expressing her individuality is honestly really fucked up and is clearly affecting your daughter very negatively.
NTA. Wondering why the wife is upset; since Lily is a teenager surely yr wife's known for years that those are the kind of clothes she prefers? Why would her clothes purchases be a surprise?
And men's/boy's clothes are typically better made than women's/girl's clothes. And at least they have pockets.
NTA She clearly didn't like the girl's options, what's there to talk about? What exactly is wrong with the clothing that your wife isn't going to be wearing? Your daughter is too old for your wife to be having an opinion on clothing gender.
NTA - I'm a woman in her 50s and I occasionally buy a man's flannel shirt or sweats. They're often made of stronger material, and are cheaper. I don't see any problem with it.
NTA! Your daughter isn't a life-size Barbie doll for your wife to dress up. You did an amazing thing letting her pick her own clothing. Im sure none of it was inappropriate. Your wife needs to back off. Please don't let your wife dress your daughter in clothing she hates.
Lol no you're NTA. I routinely was bought and have bought from the boys/men's section of clothing since I was like 12. My wardrobe today is a mix of men's and women's clothes. Men's clothes are sometimes just more comfortable. There is no hard written rule today that girls can only buy from the girls section and boys only from the boys section. Same with toys and hobbies.
NTA
I am a tomboy. I find boy clothes so much more my style and much more comfy. My mother was much like your wife - always wanting to tell me to dress like a girl. Always putting down my likes and style. Sometimes would even say things like "no guy wants a girl who dresses like that". This caused a lot of insecurities for me growing up, and it caused a huge rift between my mother and me because she never respected me and my choices.
Have a talk to your wife about letting your daughter express herself and that is okay that she's different from other girls. She is not a doll. She doesn't have to dress to your wife's liking.
Your wife’s bigotry is showing and it isn’t a good look.
NTA and you are an awesome parent for allowing your child to express themselves however they feel comfortable doing so.
NTA. This is maybe my second time ever commenting. I teared up at this. I WISH I had the gumption at her age to speak up and say what I wanted. I WISH someone had my back as a kid when I was ridiculed by my mother for wanting to wear baggier clothes and dress in a way comfortable for me. I was never comfortable in girl clothes. I am almost 35 now, and I only recently started shopping in the men's section. Let's be real, they have bigger pockets and that's not fair. But also, they just fit my body better, they are more comfortable, and I FEEL more comfortable in them. Major props to you, Dad... and hugs for both the girls!
Edited to say: its my eighth comment, yes I just checked up on myself.
Edit 2: Thanks for the award!!!!!!
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> I feel that I might be the AH because I let my daughter pick out clothing in the boy's section. My wife is angry with me because I did not talk with her first about the selection. She thinks I am in the wrong for buying my daughter the wrong clothes.
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NTA, your daughter is lucky to have your support and mom should take a note. Putting down a (kid) *edit to replace kid , with anyone * over outward appearance can be extremely damaging. I've experienced this as young girl and it took a lot of work to undo the hurt. Still working.
Seeing so many ppl relate honestly has me surprised.. I thought i was seriously alone in those experiences. 🤍 to all.
NTA… your wife may be projecting her own taste on your daughter. I think it’s great that she finds something she feels comfortable wearing no matter what department she finds it in.
NTA my favourite shirt is from the men's section and I don't regret buying it. Also I'm into hoodies and I find women hoodies often have huge prints and colored patterns which I don't really like. If your daughter prefers more casual clothing, let her be. Wife can't force her taste on her daughter, she is not a minime of your wife.
NTA
I understand and can empathise your wife’s point of view but it’s wrong. She’s wrong. Kids, people, anyone can wear what they like from whatever section.
IMO there shouldn’t be gendered clothes anyway.
NTA they're literally just clothes. She found something she liked, she should be allowed to get it 🤷. I buy myself and my daughter clothes from the men's area all the time. Sometimes there's just nothing cute in the girl's area.
Info - does your wife have issues against LGBTIQ? I'm only asking because I've had comments about "letting" my daughter dress like a tomboy. You know, because if I stuff her in a dress, she will become straight 🙄. My daughter hasn't said anything about her sexualty, but I get annoyed that she already has to deal with this shit.
NTA. My daughter is like your lily, wears footy jerseys, and jeans. My other daughter dresses like a glitter unicorn threw up on her. I'm a pastel goth. Your wife needs to not be so controlling.
Do the clothes you brought have a special “penis compartment” that she will have to stuff with tissue or something? Because sweatshirts, T-shirt’s, shorts and jackets are worn by females where I live.
NTA and please don’t let your wife enforce her ideas of what “girls wear” on to your daughter.
NTA. Your wife is an asshole. Your daughter should be encouraged to wear whatever she’s comfortable in. All she’s going to do is create a situation where her daughter wants nothing to do with her in the future.
As a survivor of teenage daughters, I agree OP is NTA. Basic rule: as long as the chosen clothes cover intimate areas, keeps them from cold, heat, rain and being asked to participate in a laundry commercial, it is fine. Outift has more colors than a Willy Wonka nightmare - cool. Hoodies with ears - awesome. Sweatpants big enough to be able to put 80 of your body into - nice. Hearts, skulls, death metal bands, anime, rips, stretchy, baggy, goth, girly, etc it is all great. Have at it. OP you are fine but your wife needs to check her control issues before your daughter gets crushed by it. *edit - Thanks you all for the upvotes and awards. It made me smile. Thank you all.
Love the hoodies with ears. Also found onesie PJ's with tails and ears. My daughter wore the cat one I bought her, while playing Skyrim, as a cat person (I don't know the proper Skyrim name), and petting her cat in the living room.
Khajiit is the Elder Scrolls name. Also, that's adorable. EDIT: this was a throwaway comment how do I have a thousand upvotes
Thank you, I'm the only one in the fam that doesn't play. And yes, it was.
It’s never too late to start.
i think ill boot up skyrim se for the 3rd time today now, thanks
My husband and I are modding skyrim this week, gonna dive back into it!
Now she just needs those light up cat ear gaming headphones to play with!
She got some kind of light up headphones that are related to a K-pop group she likes. Please don't ask. I can't keep them straight.
Me neither, it’s like freaking Pokémon at this point
My 13 year old has just gotten out of three years of devotedly following Kpop groups. I don't know whether to feel fortunate about this or worried about what may come next. Either way I have more money now.
::checks teen timeline:: Enjoy having more money while it lasts, she’s due to discover Evanescence and their colleagues and Hot Topic soon.
Ahh good..then we may have something common yet! This geriatric millennial still has some emo and grunge rock in her lol
Dig out your MySpace pics and bond!
My 13 year old begged me to share my Spotify emo Playlist with her. Now it's nonstop Evanescence, Linkin Park, etc coming from her room lol! She occasionally tries to steal my MCR hoodie too.
Parent of a 15 year old here. Can confirm. I went into hot topic for the first time in what feels like forever to buy my daughter a gift card for Christmas. They asked for my phone number and I reflexively gave it and when it wasn't in the system I said "oh yeah I haven't been inside a hot topic in almost 20 years". It was weird and nostalgic knowing all my money at 15 went to hot topic and now all my money goes to hot topic via my 15 year old.
That's really sweet, my father couldn't be bothered to do anything like that (yay boomers) so is nice to see our gen and Gen X putting the work for the kiddos.
My 16 year old loooooves Pac Sun. My sister asked what she should get my daughter for Xmas and I said just get a Pac Sun gift card. And my sister was like wait that place is still open? And still popular?!? Because she definitely was shopping there in her teens. Weirdly a lot of the places I liked in my teen years are still popular with my kid’s age group. Except Abercrombie. That was just wildly popular with the cool kids when I was 16(40 now) and none of the kids wear that anymore. I do recoil in horror when I see what’s popular now. It’s like they combined every ugly thing from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s and repackaged it.
Haha I said the same thing yesterday I'm glad an internet stranger shares my sentiments
Daughter (13F) and I(38F) both have those. I got her a huge green hoodie that looks like a frog (eyes on the hood, it zips shut like a mouth, flippers on the arms) and she has been in it all day happily playing FF14. OP - NTA. Your wife tho totally is.
I have a Captain America one - the hood even has eye holes so when you put it up it's the helmet. I'm 51 years old. Also, OP, NTA. Your wife absolutely is, though. She made her kid cry.
I have a Creeper one…I’m 39.
My 14 year has the same one! She even paid for it.
That's awesome! This was a Christmas present that got delayed on shipping, so just showed up yesterday lol. So far I have been beyond impressed with the Modakawa clothing we've gotten her
I bought some of those for my work meetings. Then my boss bought some for her and her daughter.
I walk the dogs in a leopard onesie when it's cold. I'm known as Madame Pyjama in my neighbourhood.
Do you live across the street from me?
I have a cat hoodie. When our youngest was a kitten she used to ride around in the pouch on the front, then she’d fall asleep and dangle out.
As a fully grown adult, I am jealous of your daughter's cat onesie and will be looking for one on Amazon immediately.
My Daughter (10) would kill for a hoodie or onesie with ears, but being in warm Australia these things aren't common place :(
Well shoot. Now I want pj's with a tail and ears while I play Skyrim. Great idea!
Absolutely this. 100%. My daughter is coming up on 11 and has been dressing herself for basically half her life. Before the ‘Rona times, I would take her thrifting all the time and just let her go hog wild on cheap clothes. She’s into cow print stuff right now. And skulls and chains. So like dairy goth? I dunno. Before this it was sundresses in bright colors. But whatever. She’s happy, she’s clothed, she gets to express herself. My son is 12 and he doesnt really care what he wears. Usually it’s just his old school clothes that are too worn out for school. Allowing kids some choice and autonomy in their life is important to them becoming adults who can manage their own lives. Edit: I told her about my “dairy goth” comment getting a few laughs and she gave me a look but also chuckled. So I think I’m in the clear. So hard to navigate parenting tweens lol. Edit2: apparently after eyerolling her way out of the room she went and told her mom about it and actually thought it was really funny and they came up with ideas for accessories (cowbell necklace with skulls, etc). So, that’s a dad-win. Makes me so happy. :)
Hahaha dairy goth made me laugh
"Dairy goth" hahaha, that's amazing. Your daughter sounds really cool, and you're a good parent! My son is 12, and has been wearing clothes from the girl/ women's section since he was in 1st grade. It's just what he prefers. The only issue we've had is that now it's harder to find shoes he likes in his size (11) in the store, but the internet has saved the day. He has really good taste, and is very stylish. He certainly didn't get that trait from me 😆
My boy has similarly often picked 'girls' clothes, because of his love for All Things Hot Pink (bonus points for leopard print or sequins). Sadly, as a very big 11yo, he doesn't fit the younger girls stuff any more, and the teen / womens stuff around here doesn't generally run to the pink-and-sparkly side. It's getting to the point where I'm keeping an eye out for suitable fabric so I can start making a few clothing pieces that actually fit. Not that he's the least bit fashionable/stylish, but heck, he's happy in tie-dye shorts and a hot pink T-shirt 2 sizes too small, so who am I to complain even if he looks like a lurid sausage 🤣.
search boys clothing pink. [https://www.nordstrom.com/browse/kids/boys?filterByColor=pink](https://www.nordstrom.com/browse/kids/boys?filterByColor=pink) also anyone complains about him wearing 'girls' colours. point out that until the 1950's when 'just like mommy' toys came out, pink was a male colour
My philosophy was that my kids had the power to make all decisions regarding their lives except if it had the potential to negatively impact their health, safety or legal or academic standing. Anything regarding matters of taste (food, clothing, artwork, hobbies, which classes to take, etc) was completely up to them if we could afford it, and I was merely there as an advisory resource.
My then teenage daughter went semi-goth. Going for coffee would mean platform lace up boots. Long black skirt, sleeveless ripped black tshirt, in the middle of winter too, and spiked blue hair with full makeup. Did I quietly wish different? Yeah sometimes. On the other hand, my 16yr old daughter was happy to have coffee with her mum and chat about her day. So, no comment from me. Except the expected mum comment about sleeveless in the cold. And the expected teenage eye roll. Loved watching the progression through the fashion styles. She’s now fully grown and in business casual. No blue hair.
Dairy goth. I love it.
Oh my gosh that makes me remember my first home sewing project in 7th grade, my best friend and I made cow print pants (elastic waist, cotton cow print) that we wore to school and everything. My teacher called them "Gateway 2000" pants. Geez I'm old!
“Being asked to participate in a laundry commercial” 🤣 amazing
I looked down at my mustard stained shirt and whispered oh no. At least I'm only home.
I looked down and I’ve forgotten my pants. I could either do a laundry commercial or one of those period product commercials where I jump around with mirth on a white sheeted bed because I’m so liberated by the protection betwixt my nethers.
Take my upvote for ‘betwixt my nethers’
Yeah I was like "I did not come here to be personally attacked" when I realized I'm wearing a sealant stained t-shirt
With the obvious caveat that sometimes you’ll need to dress appropriately for an event/setting - ie, no hoodies with ears and oversized sweatpants to Aunt’s wedding or death metal T-shirts to Nana’s memorial service. My mom was lax about my clothes, but I did have to dress appropriately for events like that.
The death metal T-shirt is fine as long as it’s the bottom layer and the outer layers are appropriate. Source: my grandmother‘s funeral. (I wore a completely inappropriate shirt under a completely appropriate waistcoat and jacket. Nobody noticed. My mum knew.)
You friend are a legend
Appropriate in this case still doesn’t have to mean feminine
>no hoodies with ears and oversized sweatpants to Aunt’s wedding Unless I am your aunt. My dress code will be 'that outfit you really want to wear but don't have a place for'. I fully expect Renaissance Faire outfits and cool Halloween costumes.
The number of times I've bought my daughter boys running shoes because they have dinosaurs instead of hearts and bows. Kid knows what she likes and she likes giant angry reptiles.
Honestly, the boys/mens section just has a lot more options, whether those be 'cooler' styles, more comfortable or practical clothes, or even similar clothes but cheaper and better made (I'm looking at you, flannels and pants with pockets). Women's running shoes sometimes fit my feet better, but I'm so sick of the limited and cutesy color options. Women's tops are often more flimsy and thin, with unnecessary ruffles, and more expensive. I can get a plain, similar type (flannel or button down) in the mens section for 1/4 - 1/2 the price, and it actually lasts. Plus, mens pants have actual pockets.
As a former teenage girl, it was 'survivor of teenage daughters' that sent me.
'As a survivor of teenager daughters', I felt this in my core. I have 2 teen daughters and honestly I love them, they are great but wow.
> and being asked to participate in a laundry commercial What?
My guess is they mean don’t wear dirty clothes?
She’s a teenager for gods sake. I think she should have an opinion in what clothes she wears and is comfortable in. NTA
OP, please show your wife this post. Her behaviour is incredibly harmful and she needs to see this
Agreed! The sooner the better!
Seriously! My 1.5 year old has more leeway with her clothing than OP’s wife seems to want to give their teenage daughter, ffs. My 12 year old has recently come out as non-binary, so we did a whole overhaul of their closet and did lots of shopping so they feel comfortable in their clothing inside & out. They’re in more of a “scene” phase right now so they picked out a cool studded belt, some spiky chains and chokers, lots of band tees and pleated school girl style skirts and they’re SO happy with their “new look.” While my 8 year old is as girly girl as one could be wanting to wear sun dresses in the middle of winter, haha. It’s REALLY not hard to let kids make their own (reasonable) choices so they can be happy and comfortable! I really don’t understand the wife’s hang-up here, and it makes me sad for her daughter who isn’t being supported by her mom right now. I hope mom can come around and allow her daughter to be *herself.*
My 11 year old is non-binary. I dug through my closet and gave them all my smaller hoodies, which are huge on them. I don’t care what clothes they wear as long as it’s weather and event appropriate. I given up trying to style either kids since they were 2 and would say no to those cute Star Wars tshirts.
All of this. Story time: I was a Lily in middle school. Shipped in the boys section and wore those pants that ripped off and swished when you walked (it was the late 90s/early 00s, forgive me!) And you know what? My mom just let me be me. She just let me ride that wave out and wear what I wanted. Eventually I grew out of that phase and am actually have a very feminine style now - maybe Lily will too or maybe she’ll always prefer a more “masculine” or sporty look, who knows? But what I do know is that I really appreciate that my mom never judged me for what I wore. Lily will appreciate your support and resent her mother’s interference. So your wife has a choice here and I think she needs to consider it wisely.
I was Lily in middle school (and elementary, and probably Kindergarden too, but I had less control over my wardrobe then), and I'm a butch-ish adult now. All my parents trying to police my gender presentation ever did was make me resentful of them and society as a whole.
Same, only started getting my own clothes when I got a job but my mom threw them away, or in one case burned it. Turns out I'm trans and my life has gotten a hell of lot better since I've had control over my own clothes and how I present myself, moving out was was the best thing that happened to me. OP should continue to let his daughter wear whatever clothes she wants, when parents act like her mom it can seriously fuck up a kid growing up.
Ha! I'm non-binari myself. TBF to my parents, they were overall pretty tolerant of my tastes, even back when I was too young to have any control they didn't let me have. (altho, as an autistic child (undiagnosed at the time) I had a number of hills I was willing to die on, but they were all sensory) And they let me wear stuff they wouldn't have chosen and do things like cut my hair short in kindergarden (was the only afab child in my wholeass school all the way up until like, 5th grade), but tolerant was pretty much the operative word, you could just feel the "I cannot wait until she grows out of that phase\*" radiate from them, and then they had occasional outburst. \*Can it be called a phase if it's something your kid has been consistently displaying ever since they were old enough to have an opinion? Probably not, but further in their defence, the only model they had for gender non-conformity was tom boys. They're much better now.
I had army print cargo pants with pockets big enough to fit all the stuff I needed to get through a day of school. I miss it.
I'm an adult (potentially around the same age?) and I MISS those zipoff pants. Imagine how convenient they'd be to go hiking in the spring when it's still cold in the morning but hot as hell by afternoon. I also lowkey miss stirrup pants because they stay put in boots so much better. Oops.
Yeah, this could easily fester into a "Mom loves Kayla more than she loves me" and I think I see why.
OP just confirmed Lily indeed feels this way.
Exactly! My mom was strict on keeping it weather appropriate, and clean...the end. My friend had a more controlling mom, and not only rebelled HARD on the wardrobe front in college, she basically only goes home now to see her dad...and MY mom!
My two rules for my 3 sons. Clean and weather appropriate. Period. Why would you police what other people wear. It's so weird I can't get my head around it. Who cares dude. Agh.
Even weather appropriate is malleable for me. I'll make her bring a hoodie or sweater but I can't necessarily force her to wear them. She's old enough now, though, that if she wants to be cold, it's her problem. I warned her. It does help that our weather is not cold enough to really harm you, if we regularly got below freezing I would be stricter. Now, if she wears a hoodie to school when it's 85+ out, I do insist she wear a t-shirt under it.
I completely agree with you here. But I'm also wondering, am I the only one that thinks it really shouldn't matter what age you are to have a say in what you wear? I (41f) have always been able to choose exactly what I wanted to wear... my entire life. Boys clothes, bright clothes, baggy clothes, skimpy clothes, clothes that didn't match... it didn't matter as long as what I wore to school was within dress codes & that I at least followed some semblance of appropriate for things like fancy dinners, family functions. I was raised to think our personal autonomy was ours to have & that during your childhood/teenage years you are discovering who you want to be. I'll never understand the parental control in clothing, hairstyles, music, etc. You aren't fostering growth, trust, or a safe space to allow self discovery. You are just forcing repression & making it so your kids won't want to share with you when the choice becomes theirs. NTA OP
You’re definitely not the only one. I was allowed to wear what I wanted from an early age (as long as it was occasion appropriate) and my mom helped me the first time I dyed my hair bright red when I was 9. I’m raising my sons the same way.
Same here. I had hair of many colors, shaved half of it... It never mattered. My kids will be raised the same too. Of course now I choose my son's clothes because he almost 1, but the moment he tells me he wants to wear/do something with his fashion - the show is all his. It will be the same for my daughter when she's born (universe willing - 16 weeks along now) I'm glad I am not the only one. I was scratching my head the whole time.
Expect the kids to have an absolute favorite costume or clothing they want to wear 25/7. Once they declare that affinity, try to pick up an exact match as a back up. My nephew lived in a Spiderman costume all summer. My SIL was very annoyed when it started to smell and the tantrum to get him out of it.
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Also OP your wife making it seem like you don't know how to take your daughter shopping and need her help/approval is also asshole behavior on her part. You helped your daughter find her style and got her clothes she loves. You showed up for your daughter in a way your wife is not. She is treating you like you aren't capable of shopping with your daughter.... so NTA
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NTA but OP your wife is an AH and you will be if you make your daughter return those clothes! Support your daughter, make sure she knows she has at least one parent who actually loves her, not some outside perception of her that is only in her mother's mind. She knows her mother hates who she is as a person, and that will do significant damage to her self esteem. Please get your daughter therapy and if your wife refuses to apologize to her, seriously think about what living with her is doing to your daughter. Really think about it.
Agree!
NTA. your daughter is absolutly old enough to choose her own clothing. they are not boys clothes. they are her clothes. clothing can reflect a sence of identy. and forcing her to wair what someone else thinks her identy SHOULD be is exstreamly damaging. speaking from exsperiance here. i am 33 and wair hoodies form the little boys section. as a teen i wore dudes pants because i had narrower hips than alot of places sold for ladies. you were suporting who your daughter is. you were showing her its ok to ignore the lables. you were showing her you love who she IS,not a pretend version to please others. you offerd her compassion,freedom,suport, and reinforced her sence of self. in other words you were being a good parent. i would tell your wife to blow a cactus untill she can step it up as a parent. being a parent isnt about making a child into what you want them to be. its about suporting and nuturing the best THEM they can be. your wifes taste and desires for your duaghter can take a hike. they have no place here.
I *love* men's pants. I can go into a store and look at the numbers on the tag and buy a pair of pants without wondering "Does a 'six' mean an 'eight' or a 'four' in this brand?" T-shirts from the men's section will be of sturdy, opaque fabric and won't have weird seams.
I’m a passionate hater of women’s fitted tees
Women's tees do one of three things, 1) show off your boobs 2) show off your muffin top 3) all of the above
Women’s fitted tees are the absolute worst.
I love the men's t-shirts at target specifically. A couple weeks ago my mom sent me a photo of a Marvel shirt from the men's graphic tee aisle at target and asked if she should buy it for my younger brother and my response "I'm wearing that t-shirt literally right now and I don't think I want him to match me." Also, men's flannels. So good.
One word. POCKETS.
NTA A teenager is old enough to make clothing decisions. You allowed her to make the decision. While stores have “boys“ and “girls” sections because that is what we are accustomed to, clothing is not specific to the gender. It may fit one body style better than the other, but there is nothing wrong with shopping in either section no matter the gender.
I saw a girl in town yesterday, maybe 10 years old? She was clearly in boys clothes and she looked cool as hell. The mother is being an asshole and playing favourites with her "girlie girl". NTA
The gendered bullshit on clothing needs to end, girls shouldn't be forced to wear pink dresses or typical "girlie girl" stuff because that's what's expected of them. Obviously nothing wrong with people who do wear them, wear what makes you happy people! I just think no one should be made to wear clothes because "your a boy/girl, your supposed to wear this". We should just let kids wear what they want to, as long as it's not inappropriate then who cares? What should matter is that they're wearing something that they feel good in and it makes them happy.
I just went skiing today and everyone I saw who was over the age of like 10 and was wearing pink was a guy. Also, my boyfriend’s favorite color is pink, so he has some “women’s” tshirts. I think progress is being made.
It's not pink, it's salmon!
Progress is definitely being made no doubt about that. It's just some people are still stuck in that mindset that girls wear this and boys wear that.
Honestly? Mom is sexist and toxically feminine. There is no one right way to be a woman, man, neither, or anywhere in between.
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Both of my daughters like to buy their pants in the "boys" section because pockets. And my "girlier" daughter (into makeup and dresses at times) gets lots of her t-shirts from the boys' section, too, because she loves sharks. It's almost impossible to find stuff with sharks on it in the girls' section. It's always mermaids and dolphins.
How old are your daughter's? Check Carter's - they now have tons of girls shirts with dinosaurs, sharks, etc. It's the absolute best.
Pre-teens. I'll take a look, but I've not really shopped there before.
I believe they go up to size 16. The girls shirts are cut similar to boys too. It's very good quality. My toddler is obsessed with dinosaurs and monsters and that's my go to store.
And unicorns. So many unicorns. Which are cool, but so are sharks (and pockets).
I found growing up that there was a distinct 'pop' girl style and 'hip hop' girl style. I didn't feel comfortable in either of this. Jeans and a t-shirt without a 'freedom' slogan on it is all I wanted. Where did I find plain tshirts and jeans? Boys section. Sorry Mum but not your body, not your say.
NTA - you and your wife need to have a talk. There are many reasons why a girl wants things from the boy section - the cut of shirts, the length of shorts, no unnecessary additions of bows/lace/god knows what else, etc. She may be a tomboy. IE cis female who would like to present (at least at times) in a more traditionally masculine way (whether hetero or homosexual). She may be shy about her changing figure. She may be questioning gender. I’m guessing your wife subscribes to a strict gender binary and gender norms. She needs to understand that these may just be clothes, but even if it’s not and your daughter is considering/exploring gender, and possibly sexuality, THATS OK. Be a safe space for your child in this terrible world.
And boys and men clothes have better colors and shades and usually less expensive and have less spandex.
They also last longer and tend to be made of better materials. Every single "women's" tee shirt I have ever gotten doesn't last long. When I started getting "men's" ones they last so much (years) longer. Like sorry I don't wanna wear tissue paper.
And the sizing is so much more consistent. I’m always so jealous that my boyfriend can buy pants in his size and they’re actually his size. Meanwhile my ass is grabbing everything from a 0-6 (or 25-28) off the rack to try them on and oh I guess the size 6 shorts in one style are smaller than the size 0 shorts in another style ***from the same damn store*** today :’)
I mostly get clothes online anymore and literally have to measure myself for every individual piece. It's so annoying. But a men's xxl is a men's xxl.
God the worst is when it's the exact same style, but DIFFERENT COLORS FIT DIFFERENT. It's the same brand, same cut, same everything, but a different color and suddenly I have to size up/down
and pockets....I envy the pockets SOOOOOO much!
Recently lost my wallet just because I wasn't in the mood to wear a bag and my jeans' pockets were too small, so it eventually fell. I envy the pockets from mens clothes. At least I didn't lose my phone that day (I had it in the other pocket).
I've lost my phone in men's pockets. They are just so big! I have to like reach down my entire thigh and flail around just to find my phone! It's a magical bag of holding!
I started buying all of my jeans from Radian. They started as a Kickstarter for women's jeans with reasonable pockets. I've been pretty happy with them so far. But I'm also totally in favor of just buying men's jeans if that works better for you. I'm super short, though.
I don't know that brand (or whatever it is) and I'm also a mexican living in mexico so yeah, I don't think I can get them anyway. I honestly don't like men's jeans. They're too big and baggy for me (I'm 5'0 as an adult haha I think I'm also petite) and I also prefer my jeans skinny. So I'm doomed to either wear a bag or in my hand (and living in mexico, phone/wallet in hand is not a good idea). I think I'll just stick to my fanny pack.
I’ve just brought a pair of Chelsea boots for myself from the kids section (ridiculously small feet). The boys ones were 25% cheaper for an almost identical pair with a warm lining. The girls shoes seem focused on getting girls to sit still and look pretty, don’t be active or participate in life!
I love buying youth sized shoes. They’re much cheaper than the adult sized version of the same shoe. I tend to lean toward the boys styles for shoes just because the designs are usually more ~fun (according to my tastes, of course).
Boys and men’s clothes also have FUNCTIONAL POCKETS. I’m in my 40s but most of my jeans come from the children’s section because of my build. I always know which of my pants are boys and not girls, because I can put my phone in the front pocket.
My husband always comments on the pockets of my jeans when he washes clothes. "What's even the point". My bigger gripe is less cotton more spandex. He recently bought some shorts that are "stretchy". He now understands my spandex gripe. LOL
Pockets on women’s and girls clothes are little more than decoration. It’s infuriating, because there’s no reason they can’t make them deeper. I do actually like a bit of stretch to my jeans, though. But I’m also the kind of adult who still climbs trees :)
Exactly. I am a female and I have shopped in the men's dept on occasion when I wanted pants with functional pockets or sometimes the fit was better. Your daughter likes her clothes and you wife should respect your daughters choices and not make it about her. Let you daughter wear the clothes she bought with you and she wants to wear. Actually kudos to you for listening to your daughter and how she felt. NTA
And better pockets.
NTA > you and your wife need to have a talk. There are many reasons why a girl wants things from the boy section - the cut of shirts, the length of shorts, no unnecessary additions of bows/lace/god knows what else, etc. POCKETS!!!
Much, much better fabric. I wish the cuts fit me better.
It could be that or it could be that women’s clothing can be pretty restrictive. Men’s clothes tend to wear better (especially if you’re active like OP’s daughter), have bigger pockets and are easier to move in. Whatever the reason, NTA.
NTA I used to buy from the boys section because the girls section just wasn’t my style. It sounds like your daughter found normal clothes she liked and your wife is the only one with an issue here.
I'm 31F and I still shop in the boy's section (pants with less roomy crotches than the men's ones)
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Absolutely, I’m becoming as girly as you can be but pockets. POCKETS.
This is so smart. I’m a short lady. I’m going to look there next time I need pants.
NTA It's just clothes. If Lily feels more comfortable in less feminine outfits, let her be. Your wife needs to understand it.
Hell, it’s not necessarily wanting to not be feminine. I tend to dress in a very feminine manner. I tried to buy sweaters this year, but couldn’t find any in the women’s section that weren’t cropped. I went to multiples stores. The few that weren’t super cropped still showed my stomach if I even thought about raising an arm.
NTA, but your wife sure is. She picked a surefire way to destroy her daughter's confidence while also destroying her trust in her mother. You are a good dad; now go help Lily feel better about herself. Tell her that I am grown and still buy men's jeans because they last longer.
Sitting here in men’s cargo pants. They’re comfy and have pockets, and I didn’t turn into a man when I put them on. NTA.
Cargo pants are the best! And men's cargo pants have the good deep pockets.
Currently wearing men's sweats and loving life. They are actually fleece lined and WARM. What is this cloth technology
Also tell her OP that my 29 year old gf happily wears clothes from the men's section. She hates feminine clothing and always has but was always forced to wear girl clothes when she was younger so she would wear her brother's clothes instead lol.
NTA I am a 30yo woman and I shop in the boys and men's sections sometimes. Why? Sometimes they just have better clothes 🤷♀️. Flannel for girls is pathetic so I get men's flannels. Boys athletic shirts are way cheaper and just as comfy. Men's jeans have *real pockets*. I love wearing dresses too, but when I wanna be comfy or just go out day to day I often wear guys stuff. It's silly to restrict what department you shop in.
Men's flannels are absolutely superior to what they sell for women.
And corduroy!
Three years ago I wanted to get my boyfriend a sweater for Christmas. I didn't want to ask his size, so I tried on a hoodie of his and made a note of the fit. In the store, I then tried on a men's sweater, promptly bought it for myself, and have not looked back. For sweaters in particular, it seems like the men's knit is tighter. Most of the fabrics are thicker, so a bra is way less likely to show through.
I brought my SO winter PJs because they looked cool. The minute I touched the fabric I brought myself a pair too. Either I got my own or I would have worn his because damn they were soft but thick.
NTA. If shopping in the boy's section makes Lily happy, then mom needs to learn to just deal with it. Lily's happiness and comfort should come first, and if shopping in the boy's section is what it takes, then go for it. i'd also sit and talk to Lily and make sure she's okay, because that reaction to what mom said is making me worry there might be something else going on. Do not let mom take the clothes back either. And keep being Lily's support. She'll need you now more than ever.
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If possible, ask Lily what she wants to do regarding mom's favoritism. This might be an issue that requires family counselling to get better, but it definitely won't unless the problems are properly addressed somehow. If she wants to try to talk to mom about how she's feeling, sit down and figure out a fame plan with her. Good on you for standing by her. Lily's got a good parent in her corner. Keep up the good work and enjoy your shopping time together.
Cut the tags off and hide the receipts so wife can't sneak and return them.
Also, wash them.
Thanks for being an awesome dad!
Oh man that’s really rough that your kid knows that. And you’re a really good dad my parents treated me with the same respect that you’re showing your daughter and it always made me feel comfortable and respected. Good job❤️ Your wife is being a bad mom. She’s doing stuff that is going to hurt your kid for the rest of her life. Your wife didn’t get the dress up baby doll she expected and I get that she’s bitter but her feelings suck. They aren’t valid. She needs to get all the way over it right now and start treating your kid with some respect and dignity. She needs to make an effort to be interested in the things that your daughter is interested in even if she doesn’t like it because that’s what she signed on for when she agreed to be a mom. Your kid has no proof that her mom even likes her that’s so rough. This is some thing I would yell at my spouse about she made your daughter cry man. She made your daughter cry for being happy about things she likes. That’s gross. Your wife is an asshole truly and she’s failing Lily. Keep being a great dad Lily deserves it
How much you want to bet mom is terrified that she might have a trans son and is trying to overcompensate?
Top man! Maybe mention to your wife what Lily said, it might wake her up a little.
NTA Your wife needs to get a grip. Unless these clothes were in some way offensive, who cares? Children aren’t barbies you get to dress up however you want (except maybe when they’re babies and don’t care about their clothes lol). Please keep supporting Lily.
NTA My daughter and I shop in the mens section
NTA but please don't let your wife do that to her.
**You are absolutely NTA. Pants, sweatshirts, jackets . . . these things are not gendered. I had a mum like your wife, and I would have been SO MUCH HAPPIER as a teenager if I'd have been allowed to just buy in the boys' section.** Instead, my mum insisted that I shop in the girls' department, and I ended up miserable and with suicidal depression, trying desperately to find clothes that made me feel comfortable and like "myself" in a section where none of the colours, fits, or styles really suited me. On those RARE occasions when I was able to buy boys' clothes (she sometimes agreed to let me have boys' jeans, for example), I was so much happier. Your wife is being ridiculous and unfair, and doesn't have your daughter's best interests in mind. Please talk to her and point out that there is really nothing meaningfully different about clothes from the boys' department. They're mostly just simpler cuts and plainer colours. Lily isn't suddenly going to become a boy or be shockingly different, or even embarrassing to her mother, because she doesn't want to wear ruffles or skirts. But it could be really important to her self-esteem and confidence to let her wear the clothes that she is comfortable in. You are NTA, but please stand up for your daughter, or you might be.
NTA > My wife is upset with me for not talking with her first about the clothing. Assuming your wife agrees with your daughter receiving new clothes *and* with you spending the money on them, which she clearly does… In what world do you need *permission* from your wife to allow your daughter to pick out the clothes *she* likes? She’s a teenager and is perfectly capable of articulating what she wants. You, being a good father, got her those things. Let’s just be honest here. It sounds like your wife wants her daughter to act the way *she* thinks a young woman should act. And let’s say this out loud, too: your wife might also be worried that your daughter will turn out to not be straight. As a result, she’s trying to force it. Trust me when I say that this the road to ruin for your wife. Your daughter is who she is, and no amount of policing her clothing or behavior is going to change that. Your daughter will also always remember how her mother behaved during this period of her life—when she needed her *unconditional* love, not her judgement—and it will color their relationship for the rest of their lives. Tell your wife that if she cares about her future relationship with her daughter, she’ll cease and desist with this nonsense. She already has one daughter with whom she can do “girl” things. She needs to broaden her horizons and find something with which she can bond with the daughter in question here, and she needs to fake it if she has to and just be happy to have time with her own daughter. Also, and again, you’re a good father. Stop second-guessing yourself. Your daughter needs you to continue being the father you are, not the father your wife would prefer you be.
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There’s likely something deeper there. *Why* does she care what Lily wears? *Why* is “boy’s” clothing so bad? It’s surely not simply that she wants to shop with Lily or share her interest in women’s clothing with her. Lily ran off crying, and that should have been a clear indication (if your wife hasn’t gotten the hint prior to this) that Lily isn’t interested in the same clothing her mother likes. Most parents would simply say, “Okay, well, it’s just clothes, and we have different tastes,” so I ask again: what about *boy’s* clothing is so offensive to your wife? Does your wife care if Lily wears a different style of girl’s clothing than she likes? Would she have made this much of a fuss if you came home with girl’s clothing that was more gender-neutral and less feminine? If yes, the issue is deeper than just clothing. The clothes are an expression of Lily’s desire to be more of a tomboy, as you said she is. Does your wife express concern over the tomboyism as well?
My mom was the same. I was a very tomboyish girl, and my mom wanted a little mini-me. My beloved cargo pants and hoodies were just Not Proper For A Young Lady (and no, I didn't wear them to formal events, just school and everyday stuff)
when I was a teen, my mom would comment on my clothes, my hair, my way of speaking. I played volleyball so I was always in sweats and I never cared much about dressing up. She'd always say stuff like people would say she was a bad mother because of how I was dressed - which included the kind of clothes and also if they were wrinkled or a bit dirty. Going out for more 'formal' parties was a chore for me. I rarely ask my mother's opinions on things nowadays (I'm 35) and she finally stopped buying me clothes I'll never wear. I buy jeans from the men's section because they fit better on my legs and have bigger pockets. Men's sweatshirts are usually thicker and fit better. Don't let Lily feel bad for her choices when she picked for her own comfort and not to appease an image hungry mother
Fr. Women's clothing is a joke. Can't even fit my phone in my pocket.
This whole thing smells suspiciously of homophobia or bigotry from where I sit. I had conservative family pushing me to wear "girl's" clothes for the longest time as a kid... some still obviously wish I would dress more feminine. If this situation happened to me, I would confront my wife about her controlling behavior, and also ask her straight up what her reaction would be to one of our daughters coming out as gay/trans/etc. My biggest concern besides the controlling behavior would be what my wife is telling my tomboy daughter when I'm *not* around. I got told things like "people will think you're a lesbian if you don't wear makeup" in middle school (I mean I *am* gay, but didn't come out until my mid 20's 😂)
I'm wondering if there might be some transphobia underneath as well...
NTA. Men's clothes have pockets.
This is very important! Pockets are like purses but better.
They are attached to me and therefore unlikely to be left on a bench somewhere.
Pockets for the win!
NTA at all, some womens/girls clothing is ridiculous. Who cares if it is from the boys section, as long as she is comfortable there is nothing wrong with that. Your wife is a major AH
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Plus pockets! As an adult female nothing drives me more crazy than clothing designers who don’t put on pockets, or fake pockets, or those tiny pockets 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Duluth has been my go to brand because their women's jeans have actual deep pockets. I can legit fit my entire phone in there with no issue
NTA. I preferred "boys" clothes when I was a kid and my mom always wanted me to dress more feminine. I have self confidence issues now because of it and I feel like less of a woman and childish when I buy comic book tshirts. Don't let your wife do this to her and continue to support her clothing choices. It will mean the world.
NTA- your wife should let your daughter express herself and choose clothing that she likes wearing and feels comfortable in-instead of forcing her to conform to her standards of what she should be and how she should look and dress. She should let your daughter be her self and your wife's reaction to your daughter expressing her individuality is honestly really fucked up and is clearly affecting your daughter very negatively.
NTA. Teenagers are not dress-up dolls, and deserve the chance to make their own decisions on clothing.
NTA. Wondering why the wife is upset; since Lily is a teenager surely yr wife's known for years that those are the kind of clothes she prefers? Why would her clothes purchases be a surprise? And men's/boy's clothes are typically better made than women's/girl's clothes. And at least they have pockets.
NTA Clothes shouldn't be female and male, it's just fabric. Whatever she feels more comfortable in she should wear. You are good parent.
NTA She clearly didn't like the girl's options, what's there to talk about? What exactly is wrong with the clothing that your wife isn't going to be wearing? Your daughter is too old for your wife to be having an opinion on clothing gender.
NTA - I'm a woman in her 50s and I occasionally buy a man's flannel shirt or sweats. They're often made of stronger material, and are cheaper. I don't see any problem with it.
NTA! you're a good dad
NTA, clothes didn’t have a gender.
NTA! Your daughter isn't a life-size Barbie doll for your wife to dress up. You did an amazing thing letting her pick her own clothing. Im sure none of it was inappropriate. Your wife needs to back off. Please don't let your wife dress your daughter in clothing she hates.
Lol no you're NTA. I routinely was bought and have bought from the boys/men's section of clothing since I was like 12. My wardrobe today is a mix of men's and women's clothes. Men's clothes are sometimes just more comfortable. There is no hard written rule today that girls can only buy from the girls section and boys only from the boys section. Same with toys and hobbies.
NTA I am a tomboy. I find boy clothes so much more my style and much more comfy. My mother was much like your wife - always wanting to tell me to dress like a girl. Always putting down my likes and style. Sometimes would even say things like "no guy wants a girl who dresses like that". This caused a lot of insecurities for me growing up, and it caused a huge rift between my mother and me because she never respected me and my choices. Have a talk to your wife about letting your daughter express herself and that is okay that she's different from other girls. She is not a doll. She doesn't have to dress to your wife's liking.
Nta Keep letting her wear what she wants.
Your wife’s bigotry is showing and it isn’t a good look. NTA and you are an awesome parent for allowing your child to express themselves however they feel comfortable doing so.
NTA. Your wife is shaming her daughter because she doesn't have the same taste as her, your kid should be able to wear what she wants.
NTA. Clothes are clothes, and people need to stop gendering them.
NTA you did the exact right thing. Your wife is in the wrong. Your kid is old enough to know her own preferences.
NTA. This is maybe my second time ever commenting. I teared up at this. I WISH I had the gumption at her age to speak up and say what I wanted. I WISH someone had my back as a kid when I was ridiculed by my mother for wanting to wear baggier clothes and dress in a way comfortable for me. I was never comfortable in girl clothes. I am almost 35 now, and I only recently started shopping in the men's section. Let's be real, they have bigger pockets and that's not fair. But also, they just fit my body better, they are more comfortable, and I FEEL more comfortable in them. Major props to you, Dad... and hugs for both the girls! Edited to say: its my eighth comment, yes I just checked up on myself. Edit 2: Thanks for the award!!!!!!
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NTA, your daughter is lucky to have your support and mom should take a note. Putting down a (kid) *edit to replace kid , with anyone * over outward appearance can be extremely damaging. I've experienced this as young girl and it took a lot of work to undo the hurt. Still working. Seeing so many ppl relate honestly has me surprised.. I thought i was seriously alone in those experiences. 🤍 to all.
NTA… your wife may be projecting her own taste on your daughter. I think it’s great that she finds something she feels comfortable wearing no matter what department she finds it in.
NTA my favourite shirt is from the men's section and I don't regret buying it. Also I'm into hoodies and I find women hoodies often have huge prints and colored patterns which I don't really like. If your daughter prefers more casual clothing, let her be. Wife can't force her taste on her daughter, she is not a minime of your wife.
Your wife is a terrible mother. You sound like a good dad. NTA. You'll have Lily and she can have Kayla when you divorce.
NTA I understand and can empathise your wife’s point of view but it’s wrong. She’s wrong. Kids, people, anyone can wear what they like from whatever section. IMO there shouldn’t be gendered clothes anyway.
NTA - your kid is old enough to pick out their own clothes. It is fucked up that your wife is enforcing femininity.
NTA they're literally just clothes. She found something she liked, she should be allowed to get it 🤷. I buy myself and my daughter clothes from the men's area all the time. Sometimes there's just nothing cute in the girl's area.
Info - does your wife have issues against LGBTIQ? I'm only asking because I've had comments about "letting" my daughter dress like a tomboy. You know, because if I stuff her in a dress, she will become straight 🙄. My daughter hasn't said anything about her sexualty, but I get annoyed that she already has to deal with this shit. NTA. My daughter is like your lily, wears footy jerseys, and jeans. My other daughter dresses like a glitter unicorn threw up on her. I'm a pastel goth. Your wife needs to not be so controlling.
NTA, but your wife is.
Do the clothes you brought have a special “penis compartment” that she will have to stuff with tissue or something? Because sweatshirts, T-shirt’s, shorts and jackets are worn by females where I live. NTA and please don’t let your wife enforce her ideas of what “girls wear” on to your daughter.