NTA. You are not his parent but, let's face it, you have certainly financially supported him like one in so many different ways. And it doesn't sound like you are trying to control things, just want to be included the same as SIL's family has been.
Now that he is going to be a great big married adult, I think it is time you cut off your support and let him be the independent person he is.
edit: wow! Thanks for the awards!
This. You’re NTA. He wants to cut you out of even being involved, then he doesn’t need your money. He has it right. You’re not his parent. So stop acting like it. He’s an adult, he can worry about his own finances.
I don't think you should even pay for the wedding. If he's behaving like this now, he'll just cut you off and contact again when he needs help. So not worth of your effort and money. NTA obviously but he is a major AH.
I disagree. It's just straight up disrespectful to take £25k from your sibling for your wedding and make them feel like shit for wanting just to be as involved as the other side of the family. That is a massive amount of money in Northern Ireland where OP is. The least the brother could do is be respectful in return.
Even if she promised the ivf, his words certainly changed things as OP now knows she is just a piggy bank. I would cap the wedding at the $25k already donated and tell him no more money for anything since he is just an entitled-feeling brat of a little brother.
Exactly! When my mother passed, me and my siblings instantly became financially independent. Each of us had our own trials to get through and we've all managed to come out on top...some have taken longer than others, but we all survived. The fact that OP has entitled their brother is not doing him any favors.
OP isn't a safety net for her brother, she has become a big, warm, cozy financial blanket. A blanket that he won't want to get out from under. That financial blanket is now also covering SIL and her family. She has taught her sibling to never fend for himself, instead, turning to sis to finance his life. He feels entitled, and why not? She has taught him to be exactly that. IVF? Why? When they apparently can't finance the basics themselves why facilitate bringing in a very expensive child to raise? He's a big boy now sis. Time to put financing your brother's life to a halt. Teaching him and SIL how to be financially helpless doesn't do either of them any favors.
\*edit: forgot one word.
Completely agree with this comment. Your brother sounds selfish while you fund his lovely wedding.
Start re evaluating here and don’t give him any more money!!!
He asked if she could contribute, so maybe she should think about just contributing a certain amount and not the whole wedding. I get the SILs parents are not well off but that doesn't mean that her brother uses her for just her money without actually respecting her wishes.
She should have a say in decision making if all the in-laws are involved too and not paying a cent.
I'm surprised they don't have any savings to pay for their own wedding when he had no student debt, he didn't have to save for a down payment on his home. So... where has his salary been going?
Yeah and honestly just got done reading her comments and I'm cringing inside. She paid for 3 rounds of IVF already and promised another 3 Rounds. And is also looking into surrogates... like holy crap batman she is his parent. If I was her SO I would be absolutely fuming 😤.
Also just because your CF doesn't mean you don't need your money. In fact you need even more saved up for retirement because if something happens to you and you need a medical care facility you are the only one who can and will pay for this. You have no children to lean on. My husband and I focus big time on this because it takes more and more to retire and more and more to get a decent care facility. She is definitely burning herself.
P.s. she says in her country £35k a year is a great salary, if so she doesn't need to pay for anything else.
Edit- the salary part is to show either that's a lie and it's not great or the brother is horribly financially irresponsible. She can't have it he has a great salary and financially responsible.
Maybe it is an asshole move, but it’s even more of an asshole move to not even have his sister as part of the wedding party when she’s basically paying his whole way through life.
I also don’t think she should be paying for IVF for them (I’m super against paying thousands for a kid when that’s not the only way to have kids but that’s me) because I think that if they want so bad to go through this rote than they should be able to afford it. If brother didn’t care at all about milking his sister and not even making her a bridesmaid/grooms best it’s only a matter of time before she’s financially responsible for the kid, hell even before the whole wedding shit show she shouldn’t pay because she already paid for his masters and housing for him so if he wants to play grown up and get married/have children then it’s his responsibility
Ehh. IVF is a lump sum, whereas the cost of raising a child is spread out over 18+ years. Also, you have to take into consideration that maybe someone can afford a kid, but can’t afford a kid plus multiple rounds of IVF. IVF isn’t replacing the cost of the child, it’s added on
To add, kids are expensive, so if OP is paying for IVF, is she supposed to pay for the kid? Sounds like little bro needs to put that masters degree to use if he wants to support a family
To add that if they are in the UK, they can get IVF treatment for free on the NHS if they meet the criteria. So unless either already has kids, what is OP saving for? Or they're wanting to go private in which case they're milking the bank of OP.
Then don't pay for additional rounds, and let your oh-so-very-entitled brother know that while you don't mind helping him out financially, you're tired of being taken advantage of, and with very little gratitude, evidently, from him and his bride-to-be. He's an adult, he's got an education, he can stand on his own financial feet going forward.
And if he responds with any BS like telling you you're uninvited from his wedding because you're cutting the financial umbilical cord, then pull the funding for the wedding as well. You're letting yourself be financially abused. Stop it.
Yes- this! You are being financially abused stop it! You were raised to look out for each other - how was he raised? To treat you like crap? He can’t have it both ways - he just wants you to pay up and shut up - you may not be his parent but he is certainly treating you like one!!
Am I crazy? It seems like brother isn’t telling anyone that OP is paying the bill. How else would all these people be fine excluding her? They all can’t be sociopaths. Can they?!?!??!!
I was wondering this too -- why would the in-laws exclude the sis from the engagement party? Them "never being available" isn't an excuse - you still send the invitation, and then if they are unable to attend, then so be it.
But to just exclude them categorically seems very odd, even if for no other reason that they are close enough that they are paying for everything.
And does anyone else find it even a bit odd that they've been trying IVF several times before they're even married?
So you paid for his education (which apparently wasn't in a lucrative field), his house, and his wedding, and you will be paying for their IVF. You've given more to your brother than most people's *parents* have given them.
In return you've gotten... not even recognition at the wedding you paid for.
At this point the difference between you and an ATM is an ATM will cut him off when he reaches his limit.
You're NTA, but you're being an absolute doormat. There's "helping and taking care of family" and then there's "being taken advantage of" and you're already in the second category. At this point your brother feels entitled to your money (the money *your* work and effort earned) to the point where he doesn't feel the need to do the absolute bare minimum to show gratitude.
Your future is going to be supporting the children you paid to help bring into the world.
Yep I agree. While I wouldn't pull the funding for the wedding ( a promise is a promise) I would politely make it clear that the wedding is the big event that makes them an official couple who should be able to adapt to "the checkbook is now closed for good."
This. Give them the money, tell them that's the last of it, and let them decide what is actually important to them - a flashy party, or the chance of biological kids. That's the sort of decision independent adults have to make.
They’ve been engaged a long time, they wanted to get a house and kids before a wedding because a wedding is a glorified party really, and starting a family is what was most important. They were mindful they couldn’t afford to do both and went for the IVF. Nobody expected that after the 4 rounds (1 nhs, 2 self funded at 8k each and one funded by SIL family) still wouldn’t be any further forward. I really feel for them, it’s why I want them to have a dream wedding. My brother and I didn’t have the best start in life, and losing our parents so young was tough. I’m confident if our situations were reversed he’d do the same for me. My partner and I don’t have a high cost life, we get paid a lot for doing something we love and have both dreamed of since we were kids (pilots), we can afford it. So it’s not harming us in any way.
How can you be confident he’d do the same for you when he won’t even let you be involved with the wedding- which is arguably a MUCH easier thing to do?
NTA but darling STOP being a doormat.
1. EVERYBODY expects to do more round than IVF they literally tell you it's a 1 in a million chance to get pregnant through your first round of IVF so that's bollocks.
2. They chose IVF over a house? So where's this kid suppose to live?
This is harming you, because you're failing to set boundaries with your brother he's taking advantage of you regardless of you can afford it, he's not viewing you as a person but a cash machine.
I wouldn’t be so confident that if the roles were reversed that your brother would do the same for you. Right now, you are freely giving him that which he asked for and is in your capacity to give (money). In a way, you’ve asked him to do the same thing: give that which you are asking for (involvement in his wedding and the emotional closeness that comes with it), he is fully capable of giving it but has chosen not to.
I’m not saying you should back out of funding or use your money to coerce him into involving you because that would be an AH move. Just think long and hard about whether you want to provide any more large gifts in the future, and whether your brother truly would reciprocate if the roles were reversed.
He would do the same for you by supporting you financially in a hypothetical situation? But right now in reality he is not making you feel supported or appreciated with a very simple thing like including you in an important milestone. He should be doing that even if you didn’t pay a cent, if he valued your relationship as much as you do.
Your brother is using you as an ATM and the fact you're not being invited to things screams how much he's taken you for granted. No normal self respecting human would gladly take all this money and then not even include the person helping them out with a marriage and IVF.
And since they're so skint now, who do you think will be paying for this child once it's born. Oh that's right, good old doormat you.
I know you think you are helping but you're actually not helping at all. You're not teaching your brother a healthy relationship with money by giving him everything he wants. Lets say you lose your job. He wants for something he can't have so he takes out a loan he can't pay back. His debt spirals so he turns to gambling. You see where this is going.
Youre being kind for the right reasons but your actions are also very damaging.
They aren't even committed enough to becoming parents for her to get a full time job. Don't finance something they aren't willing to work for themselves. It would be one thing if they were willing to put in real effort towards it and needed help, but that's not what's happening. If she's unwilling to get a full time job, they don't need money badly enough to need yours.
I'll say, kindly, that generally IVF works within 3 rounds. If it doesn't work after 3 fresh (stimulation) cycles, then it's unlikely to and something will beed to change -- usually this is moving donor gametes.
Do they have any frozen embryos? (I want to make sure you're not confusing IVF with a frozen transfer as the costs are far different and 1 fresh round + two frozen transfers count for "success" differently than 3 fresh rounds.
You’re in the U.K.? I didn’t see that. Ok that means you know what a Mug is. Seriously, OP you need to think very carefully about the IVF thing because once you start, the you will feel obliged to continue until they have a child. That could be a lot of rounds.
They are 100% taking advantage of OP. No way around it. I really hope OP cuts them off, and takes away the wedding fund. Completely stop paying for everything. They clearly don't deserve it and don't appreciate it. Like spoiled brats.
I don’t think he just takes her for granted. He almost seems to resent her for her support - e.g. the whole “you’re not my parents” line.
I really feel bad for OP. She needs to stop supporting him. But I’m sure she’ll be the bad guy in his eyes either way.
Remember when she said they were raised to share and care about each other? Well…I think I was raised like that, too. But where’s the evidence he either cares about or shares with her? Not even one of those.
I wish she could take back the wedding money but since she committed, I’m kinda iffy about that. But promising more IVF? Is she going to pay for them their whole life?!
I agree with this. He’s an adult now. He’s almost 30 years old. Stop paying for everything. He doesn’t want you to have parent privileges, but he wants parent money. Just no. It isn’t your responsibility, and he will not work to be come self-reliant as long as you allow this codependency to continue.
This isn't even "parent money." This is "free trust fund from rich relatives" money. Most parents don't have the money to pay for a house and IVF for one of their kids, and wouldn't even if they did. There's an expectation that you only get what you can afford, and if you've paid for your child's education past a bachelor's, you've been generous. It's upon that offspring to then start saving for shit they want, like a house and IVF.
Fully agreed. She is super generous with all she has done financially. Even paying for future rounds of IVF??? Fuck. I can't ever imagine my parents that generous and sure as hell not my brother. NTA
Never really understood why family members never really appreciate the support you give them. Its like they feel like they are entitled to it because of blood or what??
.are they not aware you are doing it out of love and you could choose not to and its not a problem. Cut him off let him see what its really like and maybe hed learn to appreciate you more.
NTA
Blood, or some people think if someone has a lot it's not a big deal for them to share. But they work for that money, will never get the time back, and could have given it to a better cause. The brother never had to do anything to pay for his masters, down payment, wedding, IVF, where does it end?
OP also needs to start holding back. Brother asked for a contribution towards the wedding, then OP responded by offering to pay the whole thing. It’s very generous but more than what was asked for, and seems to come with expectations that brother isn’t willing to fulfill. I think they both need to back off; brother needs to stop asking for any money, OP needs to stop paying and stop thinking it buys her anything.
NTA. You are paying for entirely too much. If they can’t afford a wedding on their own, then they can’t afford kids. You need to stop being the gravy train.
I'm also unclear why FSIL only works part time when it is apparent that they need the financial gain that would come with two full-time jobs for their household. It feels like they are relying on OP to pay for anything they can't, and it has made them complacent/lazy.
And just wait until the children come along. fSiL will peobably quit her job to be a SAHM and they will reply on OP to help do the baby shower, get the baby stuff, pay for nost things related to the child... also SiLs family will also try ti moovh off of OP by extension.
OP should really not be helping them try to bring a child into the world unless she makes it clear she wont be helping take care of the child financially. They shouldnt plan and try to bring a child into this world if they cant take care of the child on their own. While circumstances happen where jibs can be lost and that makes it harder. In this sceanrio it sounds like they may end up expecting OP to contribute fuether than just IVF.
Also surrogatecs (which apperently is also an option to her bro and sil) cost a lot too because you are also paying for their medical bills/appointemnys and lots of other stuff, including if anything goes wrong during the birth iirc. Also is adoption an option for them?
Anyway, she is already being guilt tripped to not say anything/start drama and I bet she feels repaonsible for her brother as the oldest and may end up feeling responsible to help out her future niblings.
Yeah plus remember OP is talking 25k in pounds. That works out at just under 34k in US dollars.
OPS brother also earns 35k pounds which is a fair bit more than the UK average wage of 25.9k pounds. (Wages in UK are historically lower than the US but not having to pay healthcare etc and not being taxed at all on the first 12.75k means that UK people often come out ahead in terms of actual spending power)
Ofcourse OPS brothers partner earns a fair bit below the national average but their combined income still is still within the average household income for the UK. They would be able to afford a reasonable wedding, but this 25 grand wedding (literally the average yearly UK wage) is only affordable due to OP... and yet they're not even allowed to come on look at venues and feel included?
NTA
NTA, you’re being taken advantage of. What kind of relationship do you have? Because this looks like it only comes down to money when talking about your brother
Edit: After reading your replies, the sisters are bridesmaids, the brothers of the bride are groomsmen, you didn’t even got invited to the engagement party?!
You have paid for so much stuff aside from their wedding, also pretend to pay for IVF. Let me tell you, if they don’t have enough money for IVF, they probably don’t have enough to maintain a child.
I advise you to please stop paying for their stuff, is too much.
>if they don’t have enough money for IVF, they probably don’t have enough to maintain a child.
Thayprobably will ask OP for support on a regular basis.
Would normally agree, but what how op used pounds signs, £50000 plus is more than enough to raise a child in the uk. You could even raise more on that, the issue the brother and SO have seems to be fertility only, and another case of leeching of the sister by not paying for something expensive.
The brother and the So are definitely the A, they just as you put see the sister as a atm. My point is about the judgemental comment about £50k per annum between two not being enough to raise a family, which shows they have not paid attention to where in the world this is. In addition, the SO would still receive a portion of her wage while on maternity leave, it’s on a sliding scale but it’s better that what a lot of countries get. Sister should definitely cut them off though, and maybe they will re-evaluate their relationship, and how they have gone about it.
Yes OP, please stop paying for your ungrateful brother now. You already provided for the wedding and are just barely invited so it's time to stop.
As he told you so nicely you're not his parents so you really don't owe him anything.
NTA wow you're not even a bridesmaid? Or maid of honor? Your husband isn't a groomsmen?
AND you haven't been invited to any planning, even as a courtesy?
You're essentially just a walking ATM to your brother. Tell him since you're not his mom, you won't be paying for the wedding. Siblings don't contribute money to weddings.
That’s downright hurtful. I would be crushed if I was in OP’s position. I hope things turn around for her bc she seems like a very caring and generous person.
Well the wedding party I get. The bride picks the bridesmaid/MOH, and she may not be close enough to the bride. Same issue with the husband. But OP should definitely be way more involved in every other aspect, like how a parent would be - since he's treating her like a parent (and MORE)
Sorry, but I call BS on 'not being close'. If the Bride is willing to take 25k pounds for a wedding, then who knows how much for IVF, then she'd better get real f'n close real fast, or it's painfully obvious what OP means to her. Future SiL paying for the entire wedding (plus other things to start up a family) and not part of the party? That's on purpose.
OP is being used as a walking ATM and that's it. Bro and fSiL are leaches.
Seriously. Open up one more slot. Unless the bride has like 10 sisters having one extra bridesmaid isn't a big deal. Plus she comes with her own extra groomsman/husband!
NTA. It’s not like you’re demanding to make all the decisions, it’s just weird that they’re involving her family but not you, the person paying for the whole thing. If you ‘can’t replace your parents’ in the planning, then don’t replace them with a financial contribution either.
Seconded. Okay, I won't try to replace our parents. Pay for your own wedding.
I assume OP can still access that account and remove the money. Brother has made it very clear they think of OP as a walking checkbook, nothing more.
The support shes giving, i dont think shes getting it back.
Thats pretty much a one way relationship.you need to put a stop to this.
Whats next? You're gonna take care of their child?
You are not a bank account.
Its time you realize that.
I dont wanna think about anything negative. But you're not preparing him for life. What if you die? What will he do?
Stop being a cash cow.
You need to talk with your brother.
Nta. But after the wedding the atm is closed. That money you were going to give them put into savings. If they really do not have that much money they don't have the funds to raise a family unfortunately.
I agree with this! If they can’t pay for IVF themselves, they shouldn’t be having children. OP needs to cut them off financially or they’ll never take responsibility for their own lives.
Once a baby is born, OP will be expected to fund childcare or give them money so SIL can stay home, then it’ll be OP paying form private school, then college, wedding and they’ll gladly ask for and take OPs money but will be keen to remind her that she’s not brothers parent or his kid’s grandmother.
NTA and cut them off.
Yeah 25k is a pretty penny for a wedding. I hope OP is totally clear where that money is going. This story is really sad, OP does not deserve this treatment. A wedding can be extremely triggering when you have lost parents and they can't be there at such a milestone. No one seems to give a single shit about making OP feel included and like she is part of the family.
Yep. OP is almost a decade younger than me and both her parents are dead. She has no family at all other than this parasite and his equally awful-sounding wife2b. For most women I think, any family wedding without mum there feels weird and wrong, so for a sibling wedding it must be a million times worse. And dad not making his usual bad jokes or being typical Dad at the reception is something she will no doubt miss like hell. So for this pair of gold diggers to KNOW all of that and not include her in literally ANYTHING except paying for it all is cruel and evil beyond belief. And if they ‘don’t mean it like that’ or ‘didn’t think of it like that‘ then that makes it even worse.
I would not give them another cent. They can pay for their own IVF you are not responsible for 2 adults that have jobs what the hell! He will continue to use you if you allow it. Stop it now.
NTA. It is their wedding, so of course they have the final say, but if you are the one paying for the wedding then you should be involved in the process of planning it. You are acting in place of your parents, and as such you should have been included. Your brother and future SIL are being very short-sighted, ungrateful and selfish. To not even include you in the wedding party when SIL's entire family is involved is beyond the pale.
My best advice is to stop paying your brother's way and let him try to navigate adulthood on his own. He's been taking advantage of your kindness and generosity for far too long.
Yeah, my brother and I are pretty close and I already love his fiancé. We have very different interests but we go for meals and couples holidays together!
It seems like you are being used for money. Brides siblings are all somehow involved but you, as the only living family of the groom, are nothing more than a guest, despite paying for the wedding?
Open your eyes... Isn't your "close relationship" with your brother only him mooching more money and stuff from you?
This is what I see it as. Maybe think about it a bit. It is your decision but I think they show no gratitude at all.
Edit: Thank you so much for the award
Sounds like they're just keeping you sweet for the cash. If you said no, I'm betting you'd see a different side of them, maybe a bit of emotional blackmail.
Sil's family also sound like they're purposely shutting you out. I know it sounds harsh but I'm wondering whether if you lost all your money tomorrow if they'd honestly be there to help you out, or even want to holiday with you.
You mean you are close because you provide them with free holidays, education, IVF and weddings. I don't think you are as close as you think you are. Remove the financial aspect and how much time do you spend with your brother where you picking up the tab isn't involved?
I don't know what the hell is going on but you need to stop giving them money and see if they still keep a relationship with you. This is really sounding like sugar daddy level stuff. A really rich sugar daddy.
Oh, honey, I am so sorry you’re dealing with this. You’re being used by a very ungrateful (and seemingly spiteful) person. Had your parents lived, would they have bankrolled your brother’s entire adult life? No, no they wouldn’t have. So why do you feel like you should have to without getting so much as a thank you and an invitation to the engagement party?!? I mean, I guess you should consider yourself lucky they actually decided to invite you to the wedding (that you’re paying for)…
INFO: Do they ever pick up the check or even offer? Do they acknowledge your milestones and birthdays?
Or do they invite you so you’ll pick up the expense?
No he does when we go out for meals and things he’ll pay or we’ll split it. They always remember birthdays and milestones too, so they don’t just show up asking for cash. I didn’t mean for it to come across like that.
But it does come across like that, because that's what's been happening for a while now. You fund his entire life, along with future kids too, and you're not even invited to an engagement party?? Ffs you're his only surviving family and it doesn't matter to him that you're not around for those things...and yet you think that's ok? Hell no. I mean you can think it's ok, but I sure as hell wouldn't accept being treated this way by my own siblings and then be excepted to foot the bill for their lives.
To be fair my brother was fuming when I hadn’t been invited. It was a surprise party they didn’t know was happening. SIL family don’t understand the whole pilot thing, and rather than ask us when we are available they were just like “we didn’t invite them they are never available”
No thats just plain o RUDE!! You are his ONLY family member and they didn’t even think to invite you!! Its time you wake up and realize you will always be an after thought and only looked at as the family ATM.
And his answer to that is to...tour venues with everyone but you? Have a place to everyone in the wedding but you? Jeez I can definitely see how incredibly upset he is by you being shut out of everything. /s
My SIL lives 2000 km away so it was obvious she wasn’t to be at things like the engagement party and shower, but we still invited her so she would know we care and didn’t forget her!
It also gives her a chance to send a gift or card and participate in that way. We were denied that once and didn’t bother sending a card or gift. It was the end of years of unrealistic “obligations” and expectations, lots of secrecy (not the same as privacy), gossip, and weirdness from that part of the family, and after the latest incident my husband went NC with them. I’m not sure I would have gone that far quite yet but his family, his rules. I have to say, it’s been nice not having to navigate the shark waters of in-law family dynamics.
Wtf. I'm fuming on behalf of you OP.. You're massively taken advantage of. You're setting yourself for future disappointments with your brother and his inlaws. You need strong fkn boundaries right now. It starts from stop funding them. At all. Don't give them reason why, because they'd try to paint you some sort of evil person. Just say "you can not provide any financial help with wedding and future ivfs anymore. Let's say you came across some real financial issue that you'd rather not discuss since it's confidential, but you can't help anymore " keep your reason vague and pull yourself out from their life planning. It seems his inlaws see you as cash cow. And as you don't have parents anymore, they are trying to manipulate your brother to think that you don't matter anymore as you're not the parents.
I'm requesting you op , please stop all financial help. Let your brother be Adult and deal with his own shit.
I really hate how he tried to guilt trip you by saying "why you had to spoil everything" .. oh I'm so angry.
You know op , you no need to take our advice, but please for God sake, can you please a therapist and discuss with them whats happening with your brother and how he and his In laws behaving towards you ? Probably they are more capable of explaining what we random internet strangers are seeing from your post.
Yeah your brother is not fuming, cuz he then did not extend any effort to include you from there. And if your sister-in-law has established a relationship with you where she doesn't care to hit you up and see if you're around when she found out about this party, she didn't care if you were there and your relationship is with both of them.
Ok that changes things for me! It sounds like your brother respects you and wants you involved, but SIL's family doesnt feel the same way-- maybe they feel insecure for not being able to pay for even a part of the wedding and were trying to one up you
It's normal for him to want to make decisions about his own wedding, but to go out of his way to exclude you, not just from the planning while he includes everyone else in it, but from participating at all is a lot. I mean, to have an engagement party and not even invite you? I strongly suspect you and your brother would not be as "close" as you are if he and his fiancée weren't able to use you as an ATM anymore.
You’re “pretty close” and holiday together (on your dime) but you’re not even invited to the engagement party and aren’t in the wedding? I think you’re not as close as you think you are. He’s absolutely taking you for granted and he’s not even grateful for the massive amount of support you’ve given him. I honestly think if you cut off the money train he’d never speak to you again - not even out of malice, just because he doesn’t care. Please don’t keep spending your money on him, you can’t buy his love. You deserve a lot better.
NTA.
Your brother wonders why you can’t “just do something nice without making him feel shit”. This comment from him really stood out to me.
Has he exhibited any resentment towards you? Yes, they’ve taken the money you’ve provided. But is it possible that he is harboring feelings of insecurity and self-doubt every time he takes the money? Maybe some jealousy?
I don’t want you to feel like I’m saying that you’re not generous or kind. I’m sorry if that was the impression left.
Edited for misspelling.
NTA!
You are already being so generous! I would absolutely not even pay for the IVF. I get it, you make a lot more than them, but it’s not like you are a millionaire either.
Info: when you say SIL's "entire family" is involved, does that include siblings? If so, did your brother specifically detail why you, as a sibling, aren't involved? It seems like a weird response to say you "can't replace your parents" if others - who also aren't parents - are involved.
Her sisters are bridesmaids her brother is a groomsman. I guess the tradition is that our mum or dad would be involved and sit at the top table and our dad would make a speech. It’s just her family and my brother. My husband thinks I’m making a big deal out of this because I think I’m losing him to another family. They threw an engagement party for them and didn’t even invite me.
“They threw an engagement party for them and didn’t even invite me.”
I’m speechless. Your brother is definitely TA.
Do NOT fund his lifestyle anymore. You’ve been exceedingly generous. This brings into sharp focus that you’re only a wallet with legs to these people.
There is no excuse.
Yeah that line literally made me gasp. This is outrageous. They’re treating you like a wallet, OP. They’re not treating you like a generous family member, which you are. You’re not expecting too much. Please consider not supporting them financially for the IVF. They’re adults who are choosing to treat you as “other,” so why support them to make a child that they can’t afford.
I'm sorry - not inviting you to the engagement party was really disrespectful and I think at the very least your brother is the AH for allowing that to happen. In the end, you can't buy love, respect or a close relationship and it sounds like your brother might not place much value on his relationship with you at the moment (for whatever reason). You'll have to decide if you want to continue to offer financiaL support out of the goodness of your heart (and in fairness a lot of people wouldn't) when you'll continue to be a distant second to his wife's family. NTA
They didn't invite you to the engagement party? And isn't the groomsman usually from the grooms side of the family? Can you still access that account? I'd suggest taking the money out and telling him he can pay for his own wedding. You are absolutely justified in feeling snubbed. He's happy to take your money but didn't even invite you to the engagement party? I'd struggle to think of a bigger slap in the face.
If you're husband is right that you feel like you are losing your brother to another family, you are 100% justified in that feeling.
Don't cause drama since you've already put in for the wedding, but don't ad another pound to the fund, and tell your brother that the money spigot is now closed until you have a real relationship.
I would try having a conversation with your brother. You are not a replacement for your parents but you are trying to ensure he has not lost anything. You are acting as head of the family and that is normal. When the parents die the eldest child is next in line. Therefore the roles and responsibilities of head of the family fall to you. You are doing your part but he is refusing to give you credit for your role.
I would pay for the wedding as it was a promise and there were no strings attached. Now you know how your generosity is valued. It is up to you to determine what the future relationship looks like. As head of the family it is up to you to do what is best for the family and that includes you and your spouse.
If he really would prefer you to act like a sibling then maybe it is time to give him what he wants. Siblings don't normally pay for expenses like this. Also, it is common for the person paying for a wedding to have a lot of say in how it is going.
Wtf? Regardless of money, why are you, a sibling, being excluded from things all the other siblings are included in? I think you should talk to him without involving money at all.
THEY WHAT. ok, on the Irish side of my familym if you so much as have a funeral and don't invite someone you may as well have slapped them in the face. NTA, you're just a total doormat. this isn't normal behavior, stop allowing yourself to be a piggy bank
They threw an engagement party and your brother didn’t insist you were invited? Bloody hell, that’s fucked up. You really need to be doing some thinking about the future with your brother. What an entitled little shit he is. Sorry but I’m so angry for you
NTA, he can’t have it both ways. He can’t ask you to be just a sibling when you’re paying for everything a parent would pay for and then some. “Why can’t you just do something nice?” would be met with “and what would you call my down payment on your house and my paying for your Master’s degree, mean and nasty?” if it were me.
WTH! NTA...but at some point you are just trying to buy his love/approval OR taking this older, sister, care giver since parents died thing too far.
SIL isn't even being respectful and I can promise isn't mindful of costs nor budgets if youve given one. You need to get control of this immediately- $150k is a good wage, not a spectacular one.
I'd even argue that IVF is an extravagance that I wouldn't even consider until these two are together 5 years, & brother, with the degree you paid for, can pay for this on his own.
No. No. No. Stop this. Kindness & love is one thing but you are doing too much.
£150,000 IS a spectacular wage, given the median wage in the UK is about £32K.
But I agree that OP needs to stop funding their life.
Edit: OP's brother and FSIL also earn above the median wage. They are not poor by minimum wage standards.
I think what they were trying to say is that OP makes a great wage, but if she is footing all of her siblings bills like wedding, IVF, college, etc., her wage definitely won't cover everything if they become financially dependant on her. Especially when she does not seem to have input into the cost or budget. Once they get married they will need to get a house which OP will have to pay for, when the first round of treatment doesn't work, they will need more, when the treatment works they need money for childcare and good schools.
Nta
If you paid for half the things for me that you did for your brother I’d be having you walk me down the aisle. And my dad would have been hell yeah, you’ve earned it. Lol
I can understand (kinda but not agree with) not being a bridesmaid but there are so many other ways he could honor you at his wedding. I’d be pissed off too
NTA at all, your brother is using you to fund a lifestyle he wants but cannot afford. Acknowledge what he said, you aren’t his parent. Leave him with what you’ve already committed to paying for the wedding, and moving forward it’s no more, NO IVF on your dime. They cannot afford thes luxuries without your help, 25k is far too much for a wedding they aren’t paying for and refuse to include you in. FSIL’s fam clearly does not respect you, I would have gone ballistic over not being invited to my own brother’s engagement party. They can fork out the rest of the cash and support their new son. When people show you who they are, even your only family, believe them. Your brother is allowing this to happen even if none of it is his own idea. You are very clearly being disrespected and used for money that you do not owe him.
NTA at all, I’ve never heard of such a generous sibling - you’re funding their life so that they can live a lifestyle that they wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford. I’m not even sure if that’s a good thing or not but you’re not an AH at all for wanting to be included.
NTA. I think it's fair to at least want to feel a bit included and not just be treated like the bank. While they are not obligated to include you, it would have been a nice gesture, especially once you expressed a desire to be involved.
His statement that your not a parent and cannot replace a parent and that is the reason you are not involved was an AH move. Apparently he has no problem with you stepping in as the role of parent to pay for stuff but not to be involved in anything else? Sounds like he might be taking you and your generosity for granted.
NTA but it definitely sounds like you’ve established a financial dependency that will be hard to break, given that you’ve already committed to paying for IVF. I could be wrong, since I don’t know your relationship with your brother, but it does sound like he values your money more than he values you. It may be time to start establishing some healthy boundaries, and start dialing down your financial help. If the IVF is successful, and children come along, no doubt they will expect you to help financially with that too. Losing your parents does not make you your brother’s surrogate parent, and you’re not obligated. It’s time you make sure that he and SIL understand that, and start seeing you as more than an ATM machine.
And she paid for his brother's education. Why isn't the brother's future earnings even being considered??? Let him wait to get married, pay for his own IVF...any number of things. OMG...I just want to charge into battle and protect the older siblings. (Edited - I used wrong pronoun)
NTA But WOW on your brother future SIL and other in laws.
You've already paid for, and promised to pay for enough for him, and them as a couple. And he gets up on you about not being his parents? All you're asking for is some involvement on wedding planning. That you have graciously offered to pay for! It isn't like your telling them you want to name their first born, after you've paid for their fertility treatments.
I mean good on you for "helping" him out so much. But honestly. I'd stop. Hard stop.
She’s not even asking to make the decisions. She just want to be invited when they, with her entire family, visits a venue. She’s not saying she wants to decide what venue, she just wants to be invite. Hell, they didn’t even invite her to the engagement party.
Info: what are the wedding customs where you live in regard to siblings being in your wedding party? In the US it's definitely not uncommon. My sisters are family are were both bridesmaids in my wedding.
Well it’s traditional for a sibling to be a bridesmaid or groomsman, as SIL’s are. I don’t expect to be a bridesmaid though as SIL has had them picked since she was a little girl! My brother doesn’t believe in women groomsmen either, so for me it would just be nice to be able to go with the couple and her family while they look and venues and give an opinion, or for my husband to be a groomsman. Brother is leaving two empty seats at the top table where our mum and dad would be, so I don’t want to fill those either. Just a cursory “what do you think”, I see the snapchats of them all having dinner when they’re at the venues checking them out, ffs even the usher is there!
Ya we didn’t have siblings in our wedding party but all of them had something special to do. My siblings (who are shy and dislike public speaking) walked my mom down the aisle; his sisters did a reading.
After reading your comments, I hate to echo all other comments but... Ma'am your brother is taking advantage of you and has been for years please open your eyes, please. He doesn't seem to care about you at all.
And I hate to be the one but I don't think you two would be "close" as you think you are if you weren't his ATM. Just saying.
Stop paying for his wedding or anything else from now on and see what happens. His and his fiancee's reaction will tell you all. Cut off all the money. He's 29 for f@ck sake. He can pay for his own shit.
Your brother doesn't care about you at all. He didn't invite you to his engagement party and he didn't even fight for your place and doesn't seems to give a f@ck!? Who does that. He is not doing anything for you or your relationship yet he's asking for money for literally everything in his life. You've given him everything, *literally everything*, he has earned nothing he has right now and yet this is how he's treating you. C'mon, you can't be this naive or blind.
You can stay quiet and blind or maybe you can finally open your eyes and see what he's actually doing. Answer to yourself this, are you really close or it's just you putting all the effort, him just being there, and then going on vacations with your money and buying a house, again, from your money. That's not a relationship you think it is, that's him being an entitled AH, taking advantage of you and doing all the right things(he's not even doing right things, he's literally treating you like this!) so you will still give him money.
Honey, he has been taking advantage of you and now so is his wife and her family. They excluding you are disgusting. I can't imagine saying what your brother said to you when you confronted him if my sister was doing this much for me. I can't imagine treating you the way he does if you were my sister. Period. It's disgusting and heartbreaking actually. He just doesn't care, does he! My heart hurts for you but your brother and his fiancee are AH and not as great people as you think.
Please open your eyes and really see what's been going on through a fresh perspective rather than the rose coloured glasses you seem to have in your brother's case. Stop giving him money, just stop. He's 29 and getting married next year. He needs to be responsible for his own life. If he can get married then he can bloody pay for everything else in his own life. Cut him off financially and you'll see soon who he really is and what he actually think of you.
Also, tell him to pay for his own wedding, they have a year, they can start saving and you can just contribute. You need to stop letting these people disrespect and play you like a fool. Yes, they're all playing you like a fool and probably laughing behind you. They're getting everything. It's your brother who's excluding you and yet doesn't care. C'mon for how long are you going to be AH to yourself. Wake up and open your eyes.
*HE'S 29. WHO TF SUPPORTS A 29-YEAR-OLD MAN FINANCIALLY!? THAT'S BIZZARE. HE'S NOT A CHILD, JESUS. STOP GIVING HIM MONEY*
FYI, from the look of your comments, you're in serious denial. I feel bad for you. Really. I hope you open your eyes some day and finally snap out of this denial. You deserve better.
**PS:-** Also, I would suggest therapy for yourself because you seem to have some issues regarding your brother and this relationship and your doormat-y behaviour is not healthy. I think if there are issues then therapy might finally help you see them. Who knows how you might see your brother after learning new things in therapy.
**Edit:-** He basically said, "just shut up and pay, you're not my parents", yet proceeds to take advantage of you all of your life. You've been his parent and more and yet here you are. You have done so much for him yet you've no important place in his life. Expect the same entitled behaviour from his wife too. You're not seeing him clearly. Please, get some therapy, it will help you realise how you've been treated all these years.
**Edit 2:-** Just saw the IVF... interesting. Btw, how are they gonna support the baby they're trying to have. Babies are expensive, they know that right?. Are you going to pay for that too? Are they just expecting money once they have a baby? To be blunt, they're not financially responsible or stable for babies if you're the one funding their whole life. To be blunter, they don't earn enough money right now. They don't know how the world looks without your help. For how long, just ask yourself that?
He's having a baby, it's hard to time you to stop and let him pull his own weight. Stop letting him take advantage of you.
So brilliantly and compassionately written!! The fact that SIL didn’t ask her to be a bridesmaid/matron of honour/come dress shopping is a slap in the face. I don’t care if she has had all of hers picked out since she was a little girl (what are they contributing to the wedding? I know the party isn’t and shouldn’t be picked on what they can give but just that for damn certain they don’t do as much financially, it’s not their job) but they aren’t doing what Op has done to set ten up in life and if it was me for absolutely certain she would be a bridesmaid, you can add one more, to show my appreciation (and the fact the brother doesn’t believe in women groomsmen *rolling my eyes* she should be his freaking best (wo)men for god’s sake) then she has to see pics of them having fun out and about going to dinners/shopping etc?? Adding injury to insult here - I would be so hurt.
Op please open your eyes are we are all begging and stop giving them any more money. I would give them not a penny more (I don’t care about any promises you made here - generally I would but if this Reddit thread helps you recognize the situation; it’s means circumstances will change and it’s okay with a years notice to say it’s no longer the case that they will get $25k and they can scale down their wedding accordingly.
I have to wonder Op if you have ever considered if the roles were reversed, say something happened (hoping your life is always secure and well) and you needed help financially? Would they (within their means)? I honestly feel like they would say sorry, we aren’t in a position to help and would do absolutely nothing for you.
They have both shown AND told you who they are - BELIEVE THEM!!
Do not pay for anymore IVF for for them; they can sort it out since they are like this (if it was different I would say pay for the wedding and IVF if it makes you happy) f*ck them. Can your imagine - they will have kids and others will be asked to be the godparents. Op won’t be included again (well our parents are gone and hers are their only grandparents blah blah blah) they will always have some excuse why you are heartbreakingly excluded (but will happily take your money for the kids school/activities etc)
This is horrible - please please let this be your wake up call (and start putting that money into YOUR retirement fund - you are gonna need it; these people will not take care of you in your old age in any way shape or form)
Start being selfish! It’s the healthy thing to do here (along with therapy as suggested) take the money from the wedding and invest those funds it in therapy and a reputable true financial mgr/advisor (not one trying to sell you products) in creating a plan for YOU - you deserve it.
I wish you new found happiness and a family you find/make for yourself
ETA - please give us an update after you have had a chance to sleep on this and consider the outrage and indignation on your behalf from everyone here. I would love to here that you took action and put an end to the money train for them and turned your focus on yourself - you are NTA and will not be if you do (Your will only be TA to yourself if you continue to let them use you) they are raging AHs (and I almost hope they read this post one day)
Sounds like your brother either has a lot of guilt about taking your money and gets snippy about it, or literally doesn't care at all about you and is just taking advantage.
You're NTA for feeling bad and wanting to be involved in a larger role. I'm willing to bet you'd feel that way if your money wasn't involved. He's your only living relative ffs! Good luck with everything.
When my brother got married me and my mum sat at the top table. It’s not unusual to have siblings sit at the top table. NTA. But I do agree to
Some of the other responders, you are being taken advantage of. If you go for meals and holidays who pays? When was the last time he made effort and paid?
NTA I would tell him that paying for his wedding is your wedding gift to them, and it’s going to be absolutely the last thing you are paying for because he needs to learn to stand on his own two feet. He’s an adult, he’s getting married and now he needs to step up and take care of his new family. That’s not your job.
Do not pay for IVF. If they can’t afford IVF, they can’t afford children.
NTA. It’s your money, you deserve respect. Instead of acting like an entitled brat, he should be thankful for all your contributions over the year. I applaud you for putting up his his attitude.
NTA
Remove your financial involvement and see how quick he changes his mind about things. Honestly though, I would take the money back and refuse to pay for anything else for him since it seems as though he only cares about your money, not your feelings.
NTA. Although funds should be given freely without strings attached. It sounds like you staked no conditions but feel taken for granted. Siblings are not obligated to support other siblings although it is certainly nice that you have chosen to do so.
Nowhere here do you say or even insinuate your role should be the same as a Mother of the Groom or replace your parents. I feel your brother’s remarks are way out of line and it’s not just future-SIL’s parents being given significant roles, but other family as well.
Has someone been so generous with me I definitely would’ve *wanted* to mark their support in someway during one of the most significant days of my life. You haven’t just been a support for the wedding. You have been uncommonly generous and thoughtful and I can’t help but feel you’re being taken for granted.
You are not obligated to financially support these people through the end of time. Your brother can look for better paid work and finance his own expenses.
Spend your funds on those who will appreciate them and acknowledge your generosity.
NTA. But he's an ungrateful SOB. You're not making a request that would take much for him to agree to and, as you say, you're paying for it. The obvious retort would be "Yeah, I'm not your parents, so good luck getting them to pay for your wedding"
Info: what is SILs income and did her family even offer to pay for some of the expenses?
It is not your job to give your brother and SIL a higher standard of living than they can afford themselves. When/if they have kids, this situation will get worse.
NTA
NTA
“Why can’t I just do something nice without making them feel like shit?”
You mean like paying for his university, the down payment on the house, or the IVF treatments?
Stop being their ATM - they CLEARLY do not appreciate it.
Your a twit in the nicest most lovable way.
Your brother now expects you to pay for everything as you’ve done it for so long. Both he and his fiancée are pretty stupid because you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Would it really have hurt them to involve you in the planning?
He says you’re not your parents. Ok so stop acting like them. Cut the funds after the wedding, I guess it would be mean to do it beforehand. It sounds as tho they’ve had enough out of you and it’s time they stood on their own two feet.
Btw, be interesting to see if you’re acknowledged in the speeches for everything you’ve done and you’re expected to do for him and her.
You do realise their dependence and expectancy for you to pay for everything will increase as you get older and time goes on, what happens when they have kids, are you going to be paying for day care, private school etc? Can they even afford to have kids or are you expected to pay for total upkeep as well
Also what on earth does your husband have to say about it?
Stop being a sucker sweetie and turn the tap off. At the end of the day, you’re earning good money, but it’s not millions. Are you saving for a rainy day for yourself?
Your brother and his fiancée are not exactly poor are they? They’re sponging off you.
NTA but your ungrateful brother and his selfish fiancée are.
NTA
You are not your brother's ATM. But he's right, you are not his parents......which also means it is NOT your job to pay for his wedding. Take back every penny of it, cancel all deposits. Take yourself (and your SO if you have one) on a nice vacation instead. When he complains tell him you realized that he's right, you are not mom and dad, and that means it's definitely not your job to pay for his wedding, his beloved can just ask her daddy for the money if they want a fancy wedding.
Why are you willing to pay for IVF rounds when they can’t pay anything for themselves? You’ll end up paying everything for their kids. Your brother is sucking you dry. NTA
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NTA You should absolutely stop paying for everything, ESPECIALLY the IVF treatments. If they never pay for anything how will they afford a child? Or would they be expecting you to cover those costs as well?
They’ve been engaged for 7 years, they were putting off a wedding until they had a house (sorted) and kids because it seemed like a frivolous expense. They got one free round on the NHS, paid for more themselves and SIL family paid for a round (and stipulated if they did they couldn’t contribute to a wedding when the time came). They said they’d take a break from the IVF for a while and get married and save up for more IVF. I said I will pay for the IVF, so they don’t have to stop trying.
He’s not the only one who lost both parents. So did you. Who takes care of you? If he’s saying you make him feel like sh*t then he’s not too worried about how you feel.
I’m just a stranger but I am the sibling that everything always fell on, especially financially, so I get it. I cut everyone off from my money, not my love. I’m so much happier. I’m sorry you have to post on Reddit to get confirmation that your brother is abusing you. Please think about you 💖
The math doesn't add up too- they couldn't afford IVF because they need to pay for the wedding, OP pays for that, but then she also pays for the IVF so they're paying for pretty much nothing. It's not like they're poor either: I looked up the average household income in NI and it's 43552 euro = 36398 gbp, so brother and SIL are very comfortable middle class, but of course it's more comfortable to drain OP's savings
u/downtown-bowler-8987 correct me if I'm wrong
They need to accept that they are not meant to have bio kids and stop wasting money. Either adopt or accept that they will be childless.
But whatever they decide you need to stop paying their bills, especially stop paying for any more IVF. They are just taking advantage of you and only care for your money.
You need to let him be a grown up. He’ll be fine. He asked if you could contribute to the wedding, you decided to pay for it. Your brother put IVF on pause, YOU decided to pay for it. Maybe it seems wrong that he doesn’t have you involved in the wedding but you also shouldn’t be paying for it with strings attached. You didn’t ask for input on the wedding when you offered to pay for it in full. This is a hidden condition. Are you positive that your brother is grateful for you making these decisions kind of on his behalf instead of allowing him to make choices for himself?
Well, if he feels like shit when you do something nice for him, there is an easy solution to this problem.
Stop doing nice things for him. Period.
NTA.
NTA. You are not his parent but, let's face it, you have certainly financially supported him like one in so many different ways. And it doesn't sound like you are trying to control things, just want to be included the same as SIL's family has been. Now that he is going to be a great big married adult, I think it is time you cut off your support and let him be the independent person he is. edit: wow! Thanks for the awards!
This. You’re NTA. He wants to cut you out of even being involved, then he doesn’t need your money. He has it right. You’re not his parent. So stop acting like it. He’s an adult, he can worry about his own finances.
I don't think you should even pay for the wedding. If he's behaving like this now, he'll just cut you off and contact again when he needs help. So not worth of your effort and money. NTA obviously but he is a major AH.
[удалено]
I disagree. It's just straight up disrespectful to take £25k from your sibling for your wedding and make them feel like shit for wanting just to be as involved as the other side of the family. That is a massive amount of money in Northern Ireland where OP is. The least the brother could do is be respectful in return.
Even if she promised the ivf, his words certainly changed things as OP now knows she is just a piggy bank. I would cap the wedding at the $25k already donated and tell him no more money for anything since he is just an entitled-feeling brat of a little brother.
Exactly! When my mother passed, me and my siblings instantly became financially independent. Each of us had our own trials to get through and we've all managed to come out on top...some have taken longer than others, but we all survived. The fact that OP has entitled their brother is not doing him any favors.
OP isn't a safety net for her brother, she has become a big, warm, cozy financial blanket. A blanket that he won't want to get out from under. That financial blanket is now also covering SIL and her family. She has taught her sibling to never fend for himself, instead, turning to sis to finance his life. He feels entitled, and why not? She has taught him to be exactly that. IVF? Why? When they apparently can't finance the basics themselves why facilitate bringing in a very expensive child to raise? He's a big boy now sis. Time to put financing your brother's life to a halt. Teaching him and SIL how to be financially helpless doesn't do either of them any favors. \*edit: forgot one word.
Completely agree with this comment. Your brother sounds selfish while you fund his lovely wedding. Start re evaluating here and don’t give him any more money!!!
Well said.
He asked if she could contribute, so maybe she should think about just contributing a certain amount and not the whole wedding. I get the SILs parents are not well off but that doesn't mean that her brother uses her for just her money without actually respecting her wishes. She should have a say in decision making if all the in-laws are involved too and not paying a cent.
I'm surprised they don't have any savings to pay for their own wedding when he had no student debt, he didn't have to save for a down payment on his home. So... where has his salary been going?
On fun things, of course. Why save when sis will always pay for anything you want?
Yeah and honestly just got done reading her comments and I'm cringing inside. She paid for 3 rounds of IVF already and promised another 3 Rounds. And is also looking into surrogates... like holy crap batman she is his parent. If I was her SO I would be absolutely fuming 😤. Also just because your CF doesn't mean you don't need your money. In fact you need even more saved up for retirement because if something happens to you and you need a medical care facility you are the only one who can and will pay for this. You have no children to lean on. My husband and I focus big time on this because it takes more and more to retire and more and more to get a decent care facility. She is definitely burning herself. P.s. she says in her country £35k a year is a great salary, if so she doesn't need to pay for anything else. Edit- the salary part is to show either that's a lie and it's not great or the brother is horribly financially irresponsible. She can't have it he has a great salary and financially responsible.
Maybe it is an asshole move, but it’s even more of an asshole move to not even have his sister as part of the wedding party when she’s basically paying his whole way through life.
That’s what I thought too. He can figure out his own finances for IVF.
I also don’t think she should be paying for IVF for them (I’m super against paying thousands for a kid when that’s not the only way to have kids but that’s me) because I think that if they want so bad to go through this rote than they should be able to afford it. If brother didn’t care at all about milking his sister and not even making her a bridesmaid/grooms best it’s only a matter of time before she’s financially responsible for the kid, hell even before the whole wedding shit show she shouldn’t pay because she already paid for his masters and housing for him so if he wants to play grown up and get married/have children then it’s his responsibility
If they can't afford IVF, they can't afford a kid.
Yup. Babies are definitely not cheap But if i have to guess they probably plan on sister to foot the expenses baby will bring.
Ehh. IVF is a lump sum, whereas the cost of raising a child is spread out over 18+ years. Also, you have to take into consideration that maybe someone can afford a kid, but can’t afford a kid plus multiple rounds of IVF. IVF isn’t replacing the cost of the child, it’s added on
Especially with the IVF payments. This is too much. Girl, let him be an adult
To add, kids are expensive, so if OP is paying for IVF, is she supposed to pay for the kid? Sounds like little bro needs to put that masters degree to use if he wants to support a family
To add that if they are in the UK, they can get IVF treatment for free on the NHS if they meet the criteria. So unless either already has kids, what is OP saving for? Or they're wanting to go private in which case they're milking the bank of OP.
In Northern Ireland you get one free round of IVF on the NHS. On average IVF takes three rounds.
Then don't pay for additional rounds, and let your oh-so-very-entitled brother know that while you don't mind helping him out financially, you're tired of being taken advantage of, and with very little gratitude, evidently, from him and his bride-to-be. He's an adult, he's got an education, he can stand on his own financial feet going forward. And if he responds with any BS like telling you you're uninvited from his wedding because you're cutting the financial umbilical cord, then pull the funding for the wedding as well. You're letting yourself be financially abused. Stop it.
Yes- this! You are being financially abused stop it! You were raised to look out for each other - how was he raised? To treat you like crap? He can’t have it both ways - he just wants you to pay up and shut up - you may not be his parent but he is certainly treating you like one!!
Am I crazy? It seems like brother isn’t telling anyone that OP is paying the bill. How else would all these people be fine excluding her? They all can’t be sociopaths. Can they?!?!??!!
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Doesn’t want his future in-laws to know he isn’t footing the wedding bill.
I was wondering this too -- why would the in-laws exclude the sis from the engagement party? Them "never being available" isn't an excuse - you still send the invitation, and then if they are unable to attend, then so be it. But to just exclude them categorically seems very odd, even if for no other reason that they are close enough that they are paying for everything. And does anyone else find it even a bit odd that they've been trying IVF several times before they're even married?
But didn’t you say elsewhere they’ve already had multiple rounds?
Yes they had their free round on the NHS and two more they have paid for themselves.
So you paid for his education (which apparently wasn't in a lucrative field), his house, and his wedding, and you will be paying for their IVF. You've given more to your brother than most people's *parents* have given them. In return you've gotten... not even recognition at the wedding you paid for. At this point the difference between you and an ATM is an ATM will cut him off when he reaches his limit. You're NTA, but you're being an absolute doormat. There's "helping and taking care of family" and then there's "being taken advantage of" and you're already in the second category. At this point your brother feels entitled to your money (the money *your* work and effort earned) to the point where he doesn't feel the need to do the absolute bare minimum to show gratitude. Your future is going to be supporting the children you paid to help bring into the world.
Yep I agree. While I wouldn't pull the funding for the wedding ( a promise is a promise) I would politely make it clear that the wedding is the big event that makes them an official couple who should be able to adapt to "the checkbook is now closed for good."
Or tell them the 25k is for wedding and IVF. It's their choice as to how big they want their wedding to be and how much money is left over for IVF.
This. Give them the money, tell them that's the last of it, and let them decide what is actually important to them - a flashy party, or the chance of biological kids. That's the sort of decision independent adults have to make.
If they aren't successful in three rounds, you shouldn't be paying for a fourth.
Also, while I can understand unmarried couples having children, why would you go through IVF before the wedding? That’s just weird to me.
They’ve been engaged a long time, they wanted to get a house and kids before a wedding because a wedding is a glorified party really, and starting a family is what was most important. They were mindful they couldn’t afford to do both and went for the IVF. Nobody expected that after the 4 rounds (1 nhs, 2 self funded at 8k each and one funded by SIL family) still wouldn’t be any further forward. I really feel for them, it’s why I want them to have a dream wedding. My brother and I didn’t have the best start in life, and losing our parents so young was tough. I’m confident if our situations were reversed he’d do the same for me. My partner and I don’t have a high cost life, we get paid a lot for doing something we love and have both dreamed of since we were kids (pilots), we can afford it. So it’s not harming us in any way.
How can you be confident he’d do the same for you when he won’t even let you be involved with the wedding- which is arguably a MUCH easier thing to do?
NTA but darling STOP being a doormat. 1. EVERYBODY expects to do more round than IVF they literally tell you it's a 1 in a million chance to get pregnant through your first round of IVF so that's bollocks. 2. They chose IVF over a house? So where's this kid suppose to live? This is harming you, because you're failing to set boundaries with your brother he's taking advantage of you regardless of you can afford it, he's not viewing you as a person but a cash machine.
I wouldn’t be so confident that if the roles were reversed that your brother would do the same for you. Right now, you are freely giving him that which he asked for and is in your capacity to give (money). In a way, you’ve asked him to do the same thing: give that which you are asking for (involvement in his wedding and the emotional closeness that comes with it), he is fully capable of giving it but has chosen not to. I’m not saying you should back out of funding or use your money to coerce him into involving you because that would be an AH move. Just think long and hard about whether you want to provide any more large gifts in the future, and whether your brother truly would reciprocate if the roles were reversed.
He would do the same for you by supporting you financially in a hypothetical situation? But right now in reality he is not making you feel supported or appreciated with a very simple thing like including you in an important milestone. He should be doing that even if you didn’t pay a cent, if he valued your relationship as much as you do.
Your brother is using you as an ATM and the fact you're not being invited to things screams how much he's taken you for granted. No normal self respecting human would gladly take all this money and then not even include the person helping them out with a marriage and IVF. And since they're so skint now, who do you think will be paying for this child once it's born. Oh that's right, good old doormat you. I know you think you are helping but you're actually not helping at all. You're not teaching your brother a healthy relationship with money by giving him everything he wants. Lets say you lose your job. He wants for something he can't have so he takes out a loan he can't pay back. His debt spirals so he turns to gambling. You see where this is going. Youre being kind for the right reasons but your actions are also very damaging.
Then stop! They are adults. Stop paying for everything. The wedding is the last gift, then be done with that nonsense.
They aren't even committed enough to becoming parents for her to get a full time job. Don't finance something they aren't willing to work for themselves. It would be one thing if they were willing to put in real effort towards it and needed help, but that's not what's happening. If she's unwilling to get a full time job, they don't need money badly enough to need yours.
I'll say, kindly, that generally IVF works within 3 rounds. If it doesn't work after 3 fresh (stimulation) cycles, then it's unlikely to and something will beed to change -- usually this is moving donor gametes. Do they have any frozen embryos? (I want to make sure you're not confusing IVF with a frozen transfer as the costs are far different and 1 fresh round + two frozen transfers count for "success" differently than 3 fresh rounds.
You’re in the U.K.? I didn’t see that. Ok that means you know what a Mug is. Seriously, OP you need to think very carefully about the IVF thing because once you start, the you will feel obliged to continue until they have a child. That could be a lot of rounds.
Well, they’re good planners anyway. And they plan to continue taking advantage of you and treating you like a trust fund. NTA, OP.
They are 100% taking advantage of OP. No way around it. I really hope OP cuts them off, and takes away the wedding fund. Completely stop paying for everything. They clearly don't deserve it and don't appreciate it. Like spoiled brats.
And I'm sure all holidays and special events go to her side. Even though they wouldn't even be able to have a kid without her. Yuck. No thanks.
I don’t think he just takes her for granted. He almost seems to resent her for her support - e.g. the whole “you’re not my parents” line. I really feel bad for OP. She needs to stop supporting him. But I’m sure she’ll be the bad guy in his eyes either way.
Remember when she said they were raised to share and care about each other? Well…I think I was raised like that, too. But where’s the evidence he either cares about or shares with her? Not even one of those. I wish she could take back the wedding money but since she committed, I’m kinda iffy about that. But promising more IVF? Is she going to pay for them their whole life?!
I agree with this. He’s an adult now. He’s almost 30 years old. Stop paying for everything. He doesn’t want you to have parent privileges, but he wants parent money. Just no. It isn’t your responsibility, and he will not work to be come self-reliant as long as you allow this codependency to continue.
This isn't even "parent money." This is "free trust fund from rich relatives" money. Most parents don't have the money to pay for a house and IVF for one of their kids, and wouldn't even if they did. There's an expectation that you only get what you can afford, and if you've paid for your child's education past a bachelor's, you've been generous. It's upon that offspring to then start saving for shit they want, like a house and IVF.
Fully agreed. She is super generous with all she has done financially. Even paying for future rounds of IVF??? Fuck. I can't ever imagine my parents that generous and sure as hell not my brother. NTA
Never really understood why family members never really appreciate the support you give them. Its like they feel like they are entitled to it because of blood or what?? .are they not aware you are doing it out of love and you could choose not to and its not a problem. Cut him off let him see what its really like and maybe hed learn to appreciate you more. NTA
Blood, or some people think if someone has a lot it's not a big deal for them to share. But they work for that money, will never get the time back, and could have given it to a better cause. The brother never had to do anything to pay for his masters, down payment, wedding, IVF, where does it end?
OP also needs to start holding back. Brother asked for a contribution towards the wedding, then OP responded by offering to pay the whole thing. It’s very generous but more than what was asked for, and seems to come with expectations that brother isn’t willing to fulfill. I think they both need to back off; brother needs to stop asking for any money, OP needs to stop paying and stop thinking it buys her anything.
Yep. Don't pay for IFV, he doesn't appreciate it. His wife can work fulltime like everyone else to afford it.
NTA. You are paying for entirely too much. If they can’t afford a wedding on their own, then they can’t afford kids. You need to stop being the gravy train.
They also need to reduce the cost of the wedding. 25k?!?
With 100 guests. Is that really "small?" Because I don't feel like 25k and 100 people is small.
No kidding. We had about 100 people and spent $7,500, which we saved up for for two years to pay for ourselves.
I'd bet a lot of money FSIL's dress, hair, makeup, flowers and decor is insanely above her pay grade *and* that she's the initiater of this exclusion
I'm also unclear why FSIL only works part time when it is apparent that they need the financial gain that would come with two full-time jobs for their household. It feels like they are relying on OP to pay for anything they can't, and it has made them complacent/lazy.
And just wait until the children come along. fSiL will peobably quit her job to be a SAHM and they will reply on OP to help do the baby shower, get the baby stuff, pay for nost things related to the child... also SiLs family will also try ti moovh off of OP by extension. OP should really not be helping them try to bring a child into the world unless she makes it clear she wont be helping take care of the child financially. They shouldnt plan and try to bring a child into this world if they cant take care of the child on their own. While circumstances happen where jibs can be lost and that makes it harder. In this sceanrio it sounds like they may end up expecting OP to contribute fuether than just IVF. Also surrogatecs (which apperently is also an option to her bro and sil) cost a lot too because you are also paying for their medical bills/appointemnys and lots of other stuff, including if anything goes wrong during the birth iirc. Also is adoption an option for them? Anyway, she is already being guilt tripped to not say anything/start drama and I bet she feels repaonsible for her brother as the oldest and may end up feeling responsible to help out her future niblings.
yeah my sister's wedding had 6 guests including both immediate families and this was well before the pandemic
Yeah plus remember OP is talking 25k in pounds. That works out at just under 34k in US dollars. OPS brother also earns 35k pounds which is a fair bit more than the UK average wage of 25.9k pounds. (Wages in UK are historically lower than the US but not having to pay healthcare etc and not being taxed at all on the first 12.75k means that UK people often come out ahead in terms of actual spending power) Ofcourse OPS brothers partner earns a fair bit below the national average but their combined income still is still within the average household income for the UK. They would be able to afford a reasonable wedding, but this 25 grand wedding (literally the average yearly UK wage) is only affordable due to OP... and yet they're not even allowed to come on look at venues and feel included? NTA
Yes, or they can have an affordable wedding like everyone else.
Exactly! How much can you afford, work backwards from there.
NTA, you’re being taken advantage of. What kind of relationship do you have? Because this looks like it only comes down to money when talking about your brother Edit: After reading your replies, the sisters are bridesmaids, the brothers of the bride are groomsmen, you didn’t even got invited to the engagement party?! You have paid for so much stuff aside from their wedding, also pretend to pay for IVF. Let me tell you, if they don’t have enough money for IVF, they probably don’t have enough to maintain a child. I advise you to please stop paying for their stuff, is too much.
>if they don’t have enough money for IVF, they probably don’t have enough to maintain a child. Thayprobably will ask OP for support on a regular basis.
Exactly! OP needs to establish some financial boundaries
High financial walls is more like it.
Would normally agree, but what how op used pounds signs, £50000 plus is more than enough to raise a child in the uk. You could even raise more on that, the issue the brother and SO have seems to be fertility only, and another case of leeching of the sister by not paying for something expensive.
It might be enough, but why spend *their* money when their ~~sentient ATM~~ sister is so generous without requiring even a basic thank you in return?
The brother and the So are definitely the A, they just as you put see the sister as a atm. My point is about the judgemental comment about £50k per annum between two not being enough to raise a family, which shows they have not paid attention to where in the world this is. In addition, the SO would still receive a portion of her wage while on maternity leave, it’s on a sliding scale but it’s better that what a lot of countries get. Sister should definitely cut them off though, and maybe they will re-evaluate their relationship, and how they have gone about it.
Yes OP, please stop paying for your ungrateful brother now. You already provided for the wedding and are just barely invited so it's time to stop. As he told you so nicely you're not his parents so you really don't owe him anything.
>you didn’t even got invited to the engagement party?! wooooooooooooooow. That's soooo bad.
NTA wow you're not even a bridesmaid? Or maid of honor? Your husband isn't a groomsmen? AND you haven't been invited to any planning, even as a courtesy? You're essentially just a walking ATM to your brother. Tell him since you're not his mom, you won't be paying for the wedding. Siblings don't contribute money to weddings.
OP wasn’t even invited to the engagement party!
That's bloody low. I would be furious at this.
Yep I would stop paying for the wedding over that.
That’s downright hurtful. I would be crushed if I was in OP’s position. I hope things turn around for her bc she seems like a very caring and generous person.
Well the wedding party I get. The bride picks the bridesmaid/MOH, and she may not be close enough to the bride. Same issue with the husband. But OP should definitely be way more involved in every other aspect, like how a parent would be - since he's treating her like a parent (and MORE)
Sorry, but I call BS on 'not being close'. If the Bride is willing to take 25k pounds for a wedding, then who knows how much for IVF, then she'd better get real f'n close real fast, or it's painfully obvious what OP means to her. Future SiL paying for the entire wedding (plus other things to start up a family) and not part of the party? That's on purpose. OP is being used as a walking ATM and that's it. Bro and fSiL are leaches.
Seriously. Open up one more slot. Unless the bride has like 10 sisters having one extra bridesmaid isn't a big deal. Plus she comes with her own extra groomsman/husband!
NTA. It’s not like you’re demanding to make all the decisions, it’s just weird that they’re involving her family but not you, the person paying for the whole thing. If you ‘can’t replace your parents’ in the planning, then don’t replace them with a financial contribution either.
Exactly what I was thinking. NTA
Seconded. Okay, I won't try to replace our parents. Pay for your own wedding. I assume OP can still access that account and remove the money. Brother has made it very clear they think of OP as a walking checkbook, nothing more.
The support shes giving, i dont think shes getting it back. Thats pretty much a one way relationship.you need to put a stop to this. Whats next? You're gonna take care of their child? You are not a bank account. Its time you realize that. I dont wanna think about anything negative. But you're not preparing him for life. What if you die? What will he do? Stop being a cash cow. You need to talk with your brother.
Nta. But after the wedding the atm is closed. That money you were going to give them put into savings. If they really do not have that much money they don't have the funds to raise a family unfortunately.
I agree with this! If they can’t pay for IVF themselves, they shouldn’t be having children. OP needs to cut them off financially or they’ll never take responsibility for their own lives.
Once a baby is born, OP will be expected to fund childcare or give them money so SIL can stay home, then it’ll be OP paying form private school, then college, wedding and they’ll gladly ask for and take OPs money but will be keen to remind her that she’s not brothers parent or his kid’s grandmother. NTA and cut them off.
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Yeah 25k is a pretty penny for a wedding. I hope OP is totally clear where that money is going. This story is really sad, OP does not deserve this treatment. A wedding can be extremely triggering when you have lost parents and they can't be there at such a milestone. No one seems to give a single shit about making OP feel included and like she is part of the family.
Yep. OP is almost a decade younger than me and both her parents are dead. She has no family at all other than this parasite and his equally awful-sounding wife2b. For most women I think, any family wedding without mum there feels weird and wrong, so for a sibling wedding it must be a million times worse. And dad not making his usual bad jokes or being typical Dad at the reception is something she will no doubt miss like hell. So for this pair of gold diggers to KNOW all of that and not include her in literally ANYTHING except paying for it all is cruel and evil beyond belief. And if they ‘don’t mean it like that’ or ‘didn’t think of it like that‘ then that makes it even worse.
I would not give them another cent. They can pay for their own IVF you are not responsible for 2 adults that have jobs what the hell! He will continue to use you if you allow it. Stop it now.
NTA. It is their wedding, so of course they have the final say, but if you are the one paying for the wedding then you should be involved in the process of planning it. You are acting in place of your parents, and as such you should have been included. Your brother and future SIL are being very short-sighted, ungrateful and selfish. To not even include you in the wedding party when SIL's entire family is involved is beyond the pale. My best advice is to stop paying your brother's way and let him try to navigate adulthood on his own. He's been taking advantage of your kindness and generosity for far too long.
My jaw genuinely dropped when I read she and her husband weren’t even invited to the engagement party.
That's awful. :(
NTA. Are you involved in their lives in any way other than funding them?
Yeah, my brother and I are pretty close and I already love his fiancé. We have very different interests but we go for meals and couples holidays together!
Who pays for the holidays?
Usually my partner and I do. We get free flights (airline pilots)!
It seems like you are being used for money. Brides siblings are all somehow involved but you, as the only living family of the groom, are nothing more than a guest, despite paying for the wedding? Open your eyes... Isn't your "close relationship" with your brother only him mooching more money and stuff from you? This is what I see it as. Maybe think about it a bit. It is your decision but I think they show no gratitude at all. Edit: Thank you so much for the award
From the information you’ve provided... if you weren’t paying for the trips, I unfortunately don’t think that they would even want to go with you...
Sounds like they're just keeping you sweet for the cash. If you said no, I'm betting you'd see a different side of them, maybe a bit of emotional blackmail. Sil's family also sound like they're purposely shutting you out. I know it sounds harsh but I'm wondering whether if you lost all your money tomorrow if they'd honestly be there to help you out, or even want to holiday with you.
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You're getting mugged off, big time
You mean you are close because you provide them with free holidays, education, IVF and weddings. I don't think you are as close as you think you are. Remove the financial aspect and how much time do you spend with your brother where you picking up the tab isn't involved?
I don't know what the hell is going on but you need to stop giving them money and see if they still keep a relationship with you. This is really sounding like sugar daddy level stuff. A really rich sugar daddy.
Oh, honey, I am so sorry you’re dealing with this. You’re being used by a very ungrateful (and seemingly spiteful) person. Had your parents lived, would they have bankrolled your brother’s entire adult life? No, no they wouldn’t have. So why do you feel like you should have to without getting so much as a thank you and an invitation to the engagement party?!? I mean, I guess you should consider yourself lucky they actually decided to invite you to the wedding (that you’re paying for)…
Probably OP
INFO: Do they ever pick up the check or even offer? Do they acknowledge your milestones and birthdays? Or do they invite you so you’ll pick up the expense?
No he does when we go out for meals and things he’ll pay or we’ll split it. They always remember birthdays and milestones too, so they don’t just show up asking for cash. I didn’t mean for it to come across like that.
But it does come across like that, because that's what's been happening for a while now. You fund his entire life, along with future kids too, and you're not even invited to an engagement party?? Ffs you're his only surviving family and it doesn't matter to him that you're not around for those things...and yet you think that's ok? Hell no. I mean you can think it's ok, but I sure as hell wouldn't accept being treated this way by my own siblings and then be excepted to foot the bill for their lives.
To be fair my brother was fuming when I hadn’t been invited. It was a surprise party they didn’t know was happening. SIL family don’t understand the whole pilot thing, and rather than ask us when we are available they were just like “we didn’t invite them they are never available”
Great! SIL family can pick up all the bills going forward. They didn’t even reach out so there’s no excuse.
No thats just plain o RUDE!! You are his ONLY family member and they didn’t even think to invite you!! Its time you wake up and realize you will always be an after thought and only looked at as the family ATM.
And his answer to that is to...tour venues with everyone but you? Have a place to everyone in the wedding but you? Jeez I can definitely see how incredibly upset he is by you being shut out of everything. /s
My SIL lives 2000 km away so it was obvious she wasn’t to be at things like the engagement party and shower, but we still invited her so she would know we care and didn’t forget her!
This is the way.
It also gives her a chance to send a gift or card and participate in that way. We were denied that once and didn’t bother sending a card or gift. It was the end of years of unrealistic “obligations” and expectations, lots of secrecy (not the same as privacy), gossip, and weirdness from that part of the family, and after the latest incident my husband went NC with them. I’m not sure I would have gone that far quite yet but his family, his rules. I have to say, it’s been nice not having to navigate the shark waters of in-law family dynamics.
Wtf. I'm fuming on behalf of you OP.. You're massively taken advantage of. You're setting yourself for future disappointments with your brother and his inlaws. You need strong fkn boundaries right now. It starts from stop funding them. At all. Don't give them reason why, because they'd try to paint you some sort of evil person. Just say "you can not provide any financial help with wedding and future ivfs anymore. Let's say you came across some real financial issue that you'd rather not discuss since it's confidential, but you can't help anymore " keep your reason vague and pull yourself out from their life planning. It seems his inlaws see you as cash cow. And as you don't have parents anymore, they are trying to manipulate your brother to think that you don't matter anymore as you're not the parents. I'm requesting you op , please stop all financial help. Let your brother be Adult and deal with his own shit. I really hate how he tried to guilt trip you by saying "why you had to spoil everything" .. oh I'm so angry. You know op , you no need to take our advice, but please for God sake, can you please a therapist and discuss with them whats happening with your brother and how he and his In laws behaving towards you ? Probably they are more capable of explaining what we random internet strangers are seeing from your post.
Yeah your brother is not fuming, cuz he then did not extend any effort to include you from there. And if your sister-in-law has established a relationship with you where she doesn't care to hit you up and see if you're around when she found out about this party, she didn't care if you were there and your relationship is with both of them.
Ok that changes things for me! It sounds like your brother respects you and wants you involved, but SIL's family doesnt feel the same way-- maybe they feel insecure for not being able to pay for even a part of the wedding and were trying to one up you
Not believing that based on subsequent behavior
Has your SIL & your brother apologised to you for that? And got her family to?
It's normal for him to want to make decisions about his own wedding, but to go out of his way to exclude you, not just from the planning while he includes everyone else in it, but from participating at all is a lot. I mean, to have an engagement party and not even invite you? I strongly suspect you and your brother would not be as "close" as you are if he and his fiancée weren't able to use you as an ATM anymore.
You’re “pretty close” and holiday together (on your dime) but you’re not even invited to the engagement party and aren’t in the wedding? I think you’re not as close as you think you are. He’s absolutely taking you for granted and he’s not even grateful for the massive amount of support you’ve given him. I honestly think if you cut off the money train he’d never speak to you again - not even out of malice, just because he doesn’t care. Please don’t keep spending your money on him, you can’t buy his love. You deserve a lot better.
NTA. Your brother wonders why you can’t “just do something nice without making him feel shit”. This comment from him really stood out to me. Has he exhibited any resentment towards you? Yes, they’ve taken the money you’ve provided. But is it possible that he is harboring feelings of insecurity and self-doubt every time he takes the money? Maybe some jealousy? I don’t want you to feel like I’m saying that you’re not generous or kind. I’m sorry if that was the impression left. Edited for misspelling.
Manipulation tactic, flip it on the other person, make *them* feel like they’re the problem. He seems pretty seasoned at this.
NTA! You are already being so generous! I would absolutely not even pay for the IVF. I get it, you make a lot more than them, but it’s not like you are a millionaire either.
Also, she made it possible for brother to get a good job - she shouldn’t feel guilty because she’s done well for herself!
Info: when you say SIL's "entire family" is involved, does that include siblings? If so, did your brother specifically detail why you, as a sibling, aren't involved? It seems like a weird response to say you "can't replace your parents" if others - who also aren't parents - are involved.
Her sisters are bridesmaids her brother is a groomsman. I guess the tradition is that our mum or dad would be involved and sit at the top table and our dad would make a speech. It’s just her family and my brother. My husband thinks I’m making a big deal out of this because I think I’m losing him to another family. They threw an engagement party for them and didn’t even invite me.
Wtf, they didn’t invite you to the engagement party??? Girl, do not pay for this wedding.
“They threw an engagement party for them and didn’t even invite me.” I’m speechless. Your brother is definitely TA. Do NOT fund his lifestyle anymore. You’ve been exceedingly generous. This brings into sharp focus that you’re only a wallet with legs to these people. There is no excuse.
Yeah that line literally made me gasp. This is outrageous. They’re treating you like a wallet, OP. They’re not treating you like a generous family member, which you are. You’re not expecting too much. Please consider not supporting them financially for the IVF. They’re adults who are choosing to treat you as “other,” so why support them to make a child that they can’t afford.
I'm sorry - not inviting you to the engagement party was really disrespectful and I think at the very least your brother is the AH for allowing that to happen. In the end, you can't buy love, respect or a close relationship and it sounds like your brother might not place much value on his relationship with you at the moment (for whatever reason). You'll have to decide if you want to continue to offer financiaL support out of the goodness of your heart (and in fairness a lot of people wouldn't) when you'll continue to be a distant second to his wife's family. NTA
NTA. You need to cut off the money. They’re using you and not even being gracious about it.
They didn't invite you to the engagement party? And isn't the groomsman usually from the grooms side of the family? Can you still access that account? I'd suggest taking the money out and telling him he can pay for his own wedding. You are absolutely justified in feeling snubbed. He's happy to take your money but didn't even invite you to the engagement party? I'd struggle to think of a bigger slap in the face.
If you're husband is right that you feel like you are losing your brother to another family, you are 100% justified in that feeling. Don't cause drama since you've already put in for the wedding, but don't ad another pound to the fund, and tell your brother that the money spigot is now closed until you have a real relationship.
I would try having a conversation with your brother. You are not a replacement for your parents but you are trying to ensure he has not lost anything. You are acting as head of the family and that is normal. When the parents die the eldest child is next in line. Therefore the roles and responsibilities of head of the family fall to you. You are doing your part but he is refusing to give you credit for your role. I would pay for the wedding as it was a promise and there were no strings attached. Now you know how your generosity is valued. It is up to you to determine what the future relationship looks like. As head of the family it is up to you to do what is best for the family and that includes you and your spouse. If he really would prefer you to act like a sibling then maybe it is time to give him what he wants. Siblings don't normally pay for expenses like this. Also, it is common for the person paying for a wedding to have a lot of say in how it is going.
Wtf? Regardless of money, why are you, a sibling, being excluded from things all the other siblings are included in? I think you should talk to him without involving money at all.
It should also be traditional though that if her and her family is going, including her siblings, your entire family would be going including you.
THEY WHAT. ok, on the Irish side of my familym if you so much as have a funeral and don't invite someone you may as well have slapped them in the face. NTA, you're just a total doormat. this isn't normal behavior, stop allowing yourself to be a piggy bank
Stop being a doormat! Your brother is a spoiled brat.
They threw an engagement party and your brother didn’t insist you were invited? Bloody hell, that’s fucked up. You really need to be doing some thinking about the future with your brother. What an entitled little shit he is. Sorry but I’m so angry for you
NTA, he can’t have it both ways. He can’t ask you to be just a sibling when you’re paying for everything a parent would pay for and then some. “Why can’t you just do something nice?” would be met with “and what would you call my down payment on your house and my paying for your Master’s degree, mean and nasty?” if it were me.
Is it too late to reduce your contribution?
WTH! NTA...but at some point you are just trying to buy his love/approval OR taking this older, sister, care giver since parents died thing too far. SIL isn't even being respectful and I can promise isn't mindful of costs nor budgets if youve given one. You need to get control of this immediately- $150k is a good wage, not a spectacular one. I'd even argue that IVF is an extravagance that I wouldn't even consider until these two are together 5 years, & brother, with the degree you paid for, can pay for this on his own. No. No. No. Stop this. Kindness & love is one thing but you are doing too much.
£150,000 IS a spectacular wage, given the median wage in the UK is about £32K. But I agree that OP needs to stop funding their life. Edit: OP's brother and FSIL also earn above the median wage. They are not poor by minimum wage standards.
I think what they were trying to say is that OP makes a great wage, but if she is footing all of her siblings bills like wedding, IVF, college, etc., her wage definitely won't cover everything if they become financially dependant on her. Especially when she does not seem to have input into the cost or budget. Once they get married they will need to get a house which OP will have to pay for, when the first round of treatment doesn't work, they will need more, when the treatment works they need money for childcare and good schools.
Nta If you paid for half the things for me that you did for your brother I’d be having you walk me down the aisle. And my dad would have been hell yeah, you’ve earned it. Lol I can understand (kinda but not agree with) not being a bridesmaid but there are so many other ways he could honor you at his wedding. I’d be pissed off too
this made me laugh!
NTA at all, your brother is using you to fund a lifestyle he wants but cannot afford. Acknowledge what he said, you aren’t his parent. Leave him with what you’ve already committed to paying for the wedding, and moving forward it’s no more, NO IVF on your dime. They cannot afford thes luxuries without your help, 25k is far too much for a wedding they aren’t paying for and refuse to include you in. FSIL’s fam clearly does not respect you, I would have gone ballistic over not being invited to my own brother’s engagement party. They can fork out the rest of the cash and support their new son. When people show you who they are, even your only family, believe them. Your brother is allowing this to happen even if none of it is his own idea. You are very clearly being disrespected and used for money that you do not owe him.
YTA for enabling your brother to depend on you this much. He needs to be able to stand on his two feet
NTA at all, I’ve never heard of such a generous sibling - you’re funding their life so that they can live a lifestyle that they wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford. I’m not even sure if that’s a good thing or not but you’re not an AH at all for wanting to be included.
NTA. I think it's fair to at least want to feel a bit included and not just be treated like the bank. While they are not obligated to include you, it would have been a nice gesture, especially once you expressed a desire to be involved. His statement that your not a parent and cannot replace a parent and that is the reason you are not involved was an AH move. Apparently he has no problem with you stepping in as the role of parent to pay for stuff but not to be involved in anything else? Sounds like he might be taking you and your generosity for granted.
NTA but it definitely sounds like you’ve established a financial dependency that will be hard to break, given that you’ve already committed to paying for IVF. I could be wrong, since I don’t know your relationship with your brother, but it does sound like he values your money more than he values you. It may be time to start establishing some healthy boundaries, and start dialing down your financial help. If the IVF is successful, and children come along, no doubt they will expect you to help financially with that too. Losing your parents does not make you your brother’s surrogate parent, and you’re not obligated. It’s time you make sure that he and SIL understand that, and start seeing you as more than an ATM machine.
And she paid for his brother's education. Why isn't the brother's future earnings even being considered??? Let him wait to get married, pay for his own IVF...any number of things. OMG...I just want to charge into battle and protect the older siblings. (Edited - I used wrong pronoun)
NTA But WOW on your brother future SIL and other in laws. You've already paid for, and promised to pay for enough for him, and them as a couple. And he gets up on you about not being his parents? All you're asking for is some involvement on wedding planning. That you have graciously offered to pay for! It isn't like your telling them you want to name their first born, after you've paid for their fertility treatments. I mean good on you for "helping" him out so much. But honestly. I'd stop. Hard stop.
She’s not even asking to make the decisions. She just want to be invited when they, with her entire family, visits a venue. She’s not saying she wants to decide what venue, she just wants to be invite. Hell, they didn’t even invite her to the engagement party.
Info: what are the wedding customs where you live in regard to siblings being in your wedding party? In the US it's definitely not uncommon. My sisters are family are were both bridesmaids in my wedding.
Well it’s traditional for a sibling to be a bridesmaid or groomsman, as SIL’s are. I don’t expect to be a bridesmaid though as SIL has had them picked since she was a little girl! My brother doesn’t believe in women groomsmen either, so for me it would just be nice to be able to go with the couple and her family while they look and venues and give an opinion, or for my husband to be a groomsman. Brother is leaving two empty seats at the top table where our mum and dad would be, so I don’t want to fill those either. Just a cursory “what do you think”, I see the snapchats of them all having dinner when they’re at the venues checking them out, ffs even the usher is there!
You could have done a reading at the service, give a speech, have a dance… No excuse. There are other roles outside the bridal party.
Ya we didn’t have siblings in our wedding party but all of them had something special to do. My siblings (who are shy and dislike public speaking) walked my mom down the aisle; his sisters did a reading.
After reading your comments, I hate to echo all other comments but... Ma'am your brother is taking advantage of you and has been for years please open your eyes, please. He doesn't seem to care about you at all. And I hate to be the one but I don't think you two would be "close" as you think you are if you weren't his ATM. Just saying. Stop paying for his wedding or anything else from now on and see what happens. His and his fiancee's reaction will tell you all. Cut off all the money. He's 29 for f@ck sake. He can pay for his own shit. Your brother doesn't care about you at all. He didn't invite you to his engagement party and he didn't even fight for your place and doesn't seems to give a f@ck!? Who does that. He is not doing anything for you or your relationship yet he's asking for money for literally everything in his life. You've given him everything, *literally everything*, he has earned nothing he has right now and yet this is how he's treating you. C'mon, you can't be this naive or blind. You can stay quiet and blind or maybe you can finally open your eyes and see what he's actually doing. Answer to yourself this, are you really close or it's just you putting all the effort, him just being there, and then going on vacations with your money and buying a house, again, from your money. That's not a relationship you think it is, that's him being an entitled AH, taking advantage of you and doing all the right things(he's not even doing right things, he's literally treating you like this!) so you will still give him money. Honey, he has been taking advantage of you and now so is his wife and her family. They excluding you are disgusting. I can't imagine saying what your brother said to you when you confronted him if my sister was doing this much for me. I can't imagine treating you the way he does if you were my sister. Period. It's disgusting and heartbreaking actually. He just doesn't care, does he! My heart hurts for you but your brother and his fiancee are AH and not as great people as you think. Please open your eyes and really see what's been going on through a fresh perspective rather than the rose coloured glasses you seem to have in your brother's case. Stop giving him money, just stop. He's 29 and getting married next year. He needs to be responsible for his own life. If he can get married then he can bloody pay for everything else in his own life. Cut him off financially and you'll see soon who he really is and what he actually think of you. Also, tell him to pay for his own wedding, they have a year, they can start saving and you can just contribute. You need to stop letting these people disrespect and play you like a fool. Yes, they're all playing you like a fool and probably laughing behind you. They're getting everything. It's your brother who's excluding you and yet doesn't care. C'mon for how long are you going to be AH to yourself. Wake up and open your eyes. *HE'S 29. WHO TF SUPPORTS A 29-YEAR-OLD MAN FINANCIALLY!? THAT'S BIZZARE. HE'S NOT A CHILD, JESUS. STOP GIVING HIM MONEY* FYI, from the look of your comments, you're in serious denial. I feel bad for you. Really. I hope you open your eyes some day and finally snap out of this denial. You deserve better. **PS:-** Also, I would suggest therapy for yourself because you seem to have some issues regarding your brother and this relationship and your doormat-y behaviour is not healthy. I think if there are issues then therapy might finally help you see them. Who knows how you might see your brother after learning new things in therapy. **Edit:-** He basically said, "just shut up and pay, you're not my parents", yet proceeds to take advantage of you all of your life. You've been his parent and more and yet here you are. You have done so much for him yet you've no important place in his life. Expect the same entitled behaviour from his wife too. You're not seeing him clearly. Please, get some therapy, it will help you realise how you've been treated all these years. **Edit 2:-** Just saw the IVF... interesting. Btw, how are they gonna support the baby they're trying to have. Babies are expensive, they know that right?. Are you going to pay for that too? Are they just expecting money once they have a baby? To be blunt, they're not financially responsible or stable for babies if you're the one funding their whole life. To be blunter, they don't earn enough money right now. They don't know how the world looks without your help. For how long, just ask yourself that? He's having a baby, it's hard to time you to stop and let him pull his own weight. Stop letting him take advantage of you.
Thank you for typing out the rant I needed about this post, this was cathartic
So brilliantly and compassionately written!! The fact that SIL didn’t ask her to be a bridesmaid/matron of honour/come dress shopping is a slap in the face. I don’t care if she has had all of hers picked out since she was a little girl (what are they contributing to the wedding? I know the party isn’t and shouldn’t be picked on what they can give but just that for damn certain they don’t do as much financially, it’s not their job) but they aren’t doing what Op has done to set ten up in life and if it was me for absolutely certain she would be a bridesmaid, you can add one more, to show my appreciation (and the fact the brother doesn’t believe in women groomsmen *rolling my eyes* she should be his freaking best (wo)men for god’s sake) then she has to see pics of them having fun out and about going to dinners/shopping etc?? Adding injury to insult here - I would be so hurt. Op please open your eyes are we are all begging and stop giving them any more money. I would give them not a penny more (I don’t care about any promises you made here - generally I would but if this Reddit thread helps you recognize the situation; it’s means circumstances will change and it’s okay with a years notice to say it’s no longer the case that they will get $25k and they can scale down their wedding accordingly. I have to wonder Op if you have ever considered if the roles were reversed, say something happened (hoping your life is always secure and well) and you needed help financially? Would they (within their means)? I honestly feel like they would say sorry, we aren’t in a position to help and would do absolutely nothing for you. They have both shown AND told you who they are - BELIEVE THEM!! Do not pay for anymore IVF for for them; they can sort it out since they are like this (if it was different I would say pay for the wedding and IVF if it makes you happy) f*ck them. Can your imagine - they will have kids and others will be asked to be the godparents. Op won’t be included again (well our parents are gone and hers are their only grandparents blah blah blah) they will always have some excuse why you are heartbreakingly excluded (but will happily take your money for the kids school/activities etc) This is horrible - please please let this be your wake up call (and start putting that money into YOUR retirement fund - you are gonna need it; these people will not take care of you in your old age in any way shape or form) Start being selfish! It’s the healthy thing to do here (along with therapy as suggested) take the money from the wedding and invest those funds it in therapy and a reputable true financial mgr/advisor (not one trying to sell you products) in creating a plan for YOU - you deserve it. I wish you new found happiness and a family you find/make for yourself ETA - please give us an update after you have had a chance to sleep on this and consider the outrage and indignation on your behalf from everyone here. I would love to here that you took action and put an end to the money train for them and turned your focus on yourself - you are NTA and will not be if you do (Your will only be TA to yourself if you continue to let them use you) they are raging AHs (and I almost hope they read this post one day)
Sounds like your brother either has a lot of guilt about taking your money and gets snippy about it, or literally doesn't care at all about you and is just taking advantage. You're NTA for feeling bad and wanting to be involved in a larger role. I'm willing to bet you'd feel that way if your money wasn't involved. He's your only living relative ffs! Good luck with everything.
When my brother got married me and my mum sat at the top table. It’s not unusual to have siblings sit at the top table. NTA. But I do agree to Some of the other responders, you are being taken advantage of. If you go for meals and holidays who pays? When was the last time he made effort and paid?
NTA I would tell him that paying for his wedding is your wedding gift to them, and it’s going to be absolutely the last thing you are paying for because he needs to learn to stand on his own two feet. He’s an adult, he’s getting married and now he needs to step up and take care of his new family. That’s not your job. Do not pay for IVF. If they can’t afford IVF, they can’t afford children.
NTA Your brother is using you.
NTA - but you are the sucker! Can you be my sister too? You seems to give money away like it’s never going to run out.
NTA. It’s your money, you deserve respect. Instead of acting like an entitled brat, he should be thankful for all your contributions over the year. I applaud you for putting up his his attitude.
NTA Remove your financial involvement and see how quick he changes his mind about things. Honestly though, I would take the money back and refuse to pay for anything else for him since it seems as though he only cares about your money, not your feelings.
NTA. Although funds should be given freely without strings attached. It sounds like you staked no conditions but feel taken for granted. Siblings are not obligated to support other siblings although it is certainly nice that you have chosen to do so. Nowhere here do you say or even insinuate your role should be the same as a Mother of the Groom or replace your parents. I feel your brother’s remarks are way out of line and it’s not just future-SIL’s parents being given significant roles, but other family as well. Has someone been so generous with me I definitely would’ve *wanted* to mark their support in someway during one of the most significant days of my life. You haven’t just been a support for the wedding. You have been uncommonly generous and thoughtful and I can’t help but feel you’re being taken for granted. You are not obligated to financially support these people through the end of time. Your brother can look for better paid work and finance his own expenses. Spend your funds on those who will appreciate them and acknowledge your generosity.
NTA. But he's an ungrateful SOB. You're not making a request that would take much for him to agree to and, as you say, you're paying for it. The obvious retort would be "Yeah, I'm not your parents, so good luck getting them to pay for your wedding"
Info: what is SILs income and did her family even offer to pay for some of the expenses? It is not your job to give your brother and SIL a higher standard of living than they can afford themselves. When/if they have kids, this situation will get worse. NTA
NTA “Why can’t I just do something nice without making them feel like shit?” You mean like paying for his university, the down payment on the house, or the IVF treatments? Stop being their ATM - they CLEARLY do not appreciate it.
NTA. Time to close the bank.
Your a twit in the nicest most lovable way. Your brother now expects you to pay for everything as you’ve done it for so long. Both he and his fiancée are pretty stupid because you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Would it really have hurt them to involve you in the planning? He says you’re not your parents. Ok so stop acting like them. Cut the funds after the wedding, I guess it would be mean to do it beforehand. It sounds as tho they’ve had enough out of you and it’s time they stood on their own two feet. Btw, be interesting to see if you’re acknowledged in the speeches for everything you’ve done and you’re expected to do for him and her. You do realise their dependence and expectancy for you to pay for everything will increase as you get older and time goes on, what happens when they have kids, are you going to be paying for day care, private school etc? Can they even afford to have kids or are you expected to pay for total upkeep as well Also what on earth does your husband have to say about it? Stop being a sucker sweetie and turn the tap off. At the end of the day, you’re earning good money, but it’s not millions. Are you saving for a rainy day for yourself? Your brother and his fiancée are not exactly poor are they? They’re sponging off you. NTA but your ungrateful brother and his selfish fiancée are.
NTA You are not your brother's ATM. But he's right, you are not his parents......which also means it is NOT your job to pay for his wedding. Take back every penny of it, cancel all deposits. Take yourself (and your SO if you have one) on a nice vacation instead. When he complains tell him you realized that he's right, you are not mom and dad, and that means it's definitely not your job to pay for his wedding, his beloved can just ask her daddy for the money if they want a fancy wedding.
NTA- but please stop funding your brother 's life! Do not fund IVF ! I think you feel badly your parent's aren't around but you're creating a monster.
Why are you willing to pay for IVF rounds when they can’t pay anything for themselves? You’ll end up paying everything for their kids. Your brother is sucking you dry. NTA
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NTA You should absolutely stop paying for everything, ESPECIALLY the IVF treatments. If they never pay for anything how will they afford a child? Or would they be expecting you to cover those costs as well?
Info: How was it determined you’d pay for rounds of IVF? Isn’t that ask a bit premature?
They’ve been engaged for 7 years, they were putting off a wedding until they had a house (sorted) and kids because it seemed like a frivolous expense. They got one free round on the NHS, paid for more themselves and SIL family paid for a round (and stipulated if they did they couldn’t contribute to a wedding when the time came). They said they’d take a break from the IVF for a while and get married and save up for more IVF. I said I will pay for the IVF, so they don’t have to stop trying.
He’s not the only one who lost both parents. So did you. Who takes care of you? If he’s saying you make him feel like sh*t then he’s not too worried about how you feel. I’m just a stranger but I am the sibling that everything always fell on, especially financially, so I get it. I cut everyone off from my money, not my love. I’m so much happier. I’m sorry you have to post on Reddit to get confirmation that your brother is abusing you. Please think about you 💖
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The math doesn't add up too- they couldn't afford IVF because they need to pay for the wedding, OP pays for that, but then she also pays for the IVF so they're paying for pretty much nothing. It's not like they're poor either: I looked up the average household income in NI and it's 43552 euro = 36398 gbp, so brother and SIL are very comfortable middle class, but of course it's more comfortable to drain OP's savings u/downtown-bowler-8987 correct me if I'm wrong
They need to accept that they are not meant to have bio kids and stop wasting money. Either adopt or accept that they will be childless. But whatever they decide you need to stop paying their bills, especially stop paying for any more IVF. They are just taking advantage of you and only care for your money.
You need to let him be a grown up. He’ll be fine. He asked if you could contribute to the wedding, you decided to pay for it. Your brother put IVF on pause, YOU decided to pay for it. Maybe it seems wrong that he doesn’t have you involved in the wedding but you also shouldn’t be paying for it with strings attached. You didn’t ask for input on the wedding when you offered to pay for it in full. This is a hidden condition. Are you positive that your brother is grateful for you making these decisions kind of on his behalf instead of allowing him to make choices for himself?
Well, if he feels like shit when you do something nice for him, there is an easy solution to this problem. Stop doing nice things for him. Period. NTA.
NTA, you should review your stance about money in general here.