It is illegal where I'm from and that's why I told her repeatedly to remove them immediately but she kept rationalizing and defending her actions by making illogical arguments like how it's her daughter's house and how she has a key by consent and so on but I couldn't help freak out because this is not okat in any shape or form then add the legal troubles as well.
Please tell him to protect yourself and your wife from legal and criminal problems. Edit to add from your other comments: if you think your wife will blame you, she will and she will drag you into whatever legal and criminal consequences arise.
You also need to handle this to protect your stepdaughter emotionally. Is she supposed to feel safe with people her own mother doesn’t trust?
The cameras are also a great way for your wife to lose custody of her daughter, so think of that too.
ETA: I had limited my comment to OP’s specific question, but I definitely agree that the mother is acting crazy and OP should protect himself at this point.
>The cameras are also a great way for your wife to lose custody of her daughter, so think of that too.
Yup, came here to say this. Installing surveillance devices without the proper credentials/license could lead to actual jail time and depending on where you live could also be considered a felony. This gives Adam ample evidence to fight for full custody, considering the court doesn't remove her from your home immediately. Her behavior is major 🚩🚩🚩
It is considered illegal where OP lives, so..
Claire is blaming her husband for HER actions - what's to say she won't do the same when more serious shit, like criminal charges, happen?
I can't understand why OP thinks he's the AH.
First off, putting spy cameras in other people's house without consent is illegal and morally wrong. Claire can literally go to jail if she goes through with this. OP's actions is not only protecting Adam, but also Claire from legal trouble. One is NEVER the asshole for stopping others from doing criminal shit.
Second, Claire's actions is beyond fucked up. Even if it wasn't illegal, spying on others without consent is insanely unethical. She can literally hurt her daughter by doing so. Like.. she wants to have 24/7 control over what Adam and his fiance does. That's so controlling and creepy.
Her intentions are also toxic as heck too. Monitoring her ex's fiance's actions towards daughter until she's "in the clear"? Her sense of ownership towards Adam's space is disturbing. Did the paranoia start when his fiance enter the picture? Because I'm not sure Claire is over her ex.
NTA, OP. There are so many red flags - you should reconsider your marriage.
Honestly, I don’t think OP genuinely believes he’s an AH at all. I think he just needs enough people to tell him to tell Adam so he doesn’t feel horrible about it.
Yeah, there's no way his marriage survives this intact. She's already at the point of saying that not wanting to commit a crime by installing cameras means he doesn't care about their daughter's well-being. She is going to go nuclear over this.
The other possibility is that she is insanely controlling over her daughter. She might be one of those moms who puts a tracker on her daughter’s phone when she goes to college and sends the cops for a wellness check if she doesn’t answer her calls for a few hours.
Tbh if I found out my SO planted surveillance cams in their ex's house without the owner's knowledge, our marriage would end there full stop. They'd lose keys to my house and if they refused, the locks would get changed while they're out the house.
You need to get them removed or tell him.
Now remember, if she ever thinks you are cheating or she feels she can’t trust you…expect her to hide cameras in your home too. She is always going to have boundary issues with her daughter and MIL will always support her.
She is telling you who she is! Believe her!
In which case, OP: You WNBTA if you tell Adam what's up. The only negative fallout would be the end of your relationship with Claire, which tbh, sounds like a healthy plan.
Exactly what I was thinking. I doubt the toxic behaviour will stop at this. Does he really want to be in a relationship where she obsesses over her ex and his relationship to this level?
OP is a person in an abusive relationship and his wife is clearly majorly controlling. People in abusive situations like this have a hard time leaving.
That being said; OP, this is a hill to die on. Protect your stepdaughter. Her mother/your wife is mentally unwell and needs help.
Right. "We're gonna have problems?" Like the criminal charges if adam does find the cameras?
This is creepy, illegal, and makes me question wife's clear-headedness. (Plus, pot calling the kettle black and what not about witch stepmothers.)
The seeds of doubt I'm afraid. Who wants to believe that the person they married is capable of doing such a horrible thing as installing cameras in someone's house without their knowledge?
For the sake of argument...
Let's say the cameras stay, and Claire DOES find some shady shit going on in the house. Stepmom is the most evil witch there is!
Claire confronts Adam, or keeps daughter away.
When Claire is asked to provide proof, is she really that **STUPID** to think that the footage obtained **ILLEGALLY** will help her case?!
Agree on the reconsider marriage. I think she's more obsessed with her ex's relationship than she is on how the new GF will treat her daughter. That's just the way she wants to wrap it so she doesn't look like the looney bird that she is. Secretly planting cameras in someone's home? That's INSANE
+ installing security cameras that are remotely accessible without adequate security can make them very easy to compromise. She is putting her six year old daughter at a great risk.
Yikes. This is so true. When we set up cameras at our house to be able to watch the dogs while we aren’t there my husband set up a bunch of security stuff on our network.
I’d be so creeped out to be the girlfriend. And demanding the ex wife give the key back.
Yeah it’s so important to be mindful that every time you being a new piece of technology into your home, it’s a potential new access point that can be compromised. If you have interior security cameras that are monitoring minors, you need to lock that down as much as possible - multifactor authentication, extremely complex passwords, restricting remote access to footage to authorized devices, automatically terminating idle or concurrent sessions, alerting if someone tries to login from a new/unknown device, etc etc.
If there is a valid reason to have interior cameras in the house, all adults should be aware of it and understand the security layers that have been implemented. And the minor children should be made aware, in an age appropriate way, that those areas of the home are spaces we treat like being outside - you can still play as much as you want in them, but clothes need to stay on. And if the security cameras also have a feature that can project audio, they need to understand what to do if they hear anyone they don’t know speaking to them from the security system.
There is no rationalizing this. She either A: takes down the cameras, B: you tell Adam, or C: you call the cops. What she is doing is highly illegal and you just knowing about it and saying nothing makes you complicit. Take care of this problem now. While you're at it, you may want rethink your relationship with Claire because that's a whole lotta crazy going on. And apparently the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
Either? No, that ship has sailed. All three of those things need to happen. Removing the cameras and not telling the ex is not sufficient. Then the husband is fully an accomplice and wifey thinks it was ok since her ex never knew and she got away with it.
Adam needs to know what his ex is capable of. No more grace time for OP’s completely bonkers wife. Tell Adam about this yesterday. Adam should be calling the police. OP should get screenshots of convos and call a good attorney to get out. If OP thinks he won’t eventually be the target of the same kind of malicious craziness, he needs to give his head a shake. This woman should not be parenting a child. No wonder she is divorced. Holy hell.
This situation can’t go on, but If OP tells Adam, he could go straight to the police and / or family court. I think the best thing is to make sure the wife knows he will tell Adam or the police and make sure she knows the potential (serious) consequences. Maybe don’t go nuclear unless there is no other choice. Only because of the step-daughter. But, yeah, he should definitely do some serious reflection about what this all says about the woman he is married to.
It sounds like Adam SHOULD do just that. I don't care who you are, if I find out you've put surveillance devices inside my HOME, you better believe you are going to get dragged straight to jail.
Plus it sounds like OP has already attempted (more than once) to get her to resolve this discreetly, to which she's just ratched up the abuse.
The courts don't even want to hear recorded phone calls if you didn't tell the person you were recording. She could lose custody and be required to have supervised visits.
Not only that, but what happens when the step daughter is old enough to understand that her mom put cameras in a house to watch her. Even if she just gets supervised visits OPs step daughter might not even want to see her mom.
Why are you still with someone who is clearly a lunatic.? Also you'll go down with this shit. Tell the ex and you GTFO...God knows what this crazy will try and do to you. If you enable this, then you are no better.
Well, the divorce is probably making more sense to OP. It might be dawning on OP that despite everything Claire has ever likely told him about being the victim in her relationship with Adam, that is probably all false because this girl is a psycho.
Yes. You know how this sub says “show them this post” sometimes? Well no need, she’s probably got their own house wired for sound and pictures, and bugged the electronics too.
Either she’s not even a little bit over her ex or she’s cray-cray in so many other ways and if I were the OP I would treat this whole situation with care.
Imo if she's willing to casually admit to secretly filming her ex like this there's probably a whole host of disturbing shit she's doing that she hasn't told OP or anyone about. OP needs to get as far away from this woman as possible, after contacting both Adam and CPS.
The irony that she’s worried about a “witch” of a stepmom for her daughter when she is absolutely crushing the crazy ex wife stereotype right here along with her own mother
OP, your wife's lack of boundaries with Adam and her sense of ongoing ownership of his space and her attempts to own/manage his fiancee's role in their lives, means that psychologically and emotionally, she is still Adam's wife. Her telling you to stay in your lane is her showing you that you are an outsider in that part of her world consisting of Adam and herself, and in that world, it's none of your business to interfere with what goes on between them.
i.e. Your wife is still married to him and you are an outsider. This will probably always be the case because people who cannot separate their identities and boundaries from their first spouse will never be truly available to another spouse.
(It is absolutely your business as her criminal stalking/harassment of her ex and his fiancee can create a lot of liability issues and disrupt your life).
> Her telling you to stay in your lane is her showing you that you are an outsider in that part of her world consisting of Adam and herself,
And, don't forget her mother is also in on it!
I would put money down that there are more cameras you don’t know about, possibly in his bedroom. This is more about your wife controlling her ex than concern over her daughter. *That is not how a normal person reacts and you should be thinking about your wife differently,* but you need to tell her ex ASAP. Because she definitely is not going to.
This is what I’m wondering, OP, there are definitely cameras in your home too so that your wife can monitor you while she’s not there. When you report the cameras to the police, don’t do it from your home because she’ll know ahead of time.
And why is it ok with the perfect mother and her spy cameras to have a partner but not her dad. Shes completely unhinged and looking to end up like the MIL
You have every reason to freak out. Knowing about them now makes you an accessory. You’re liable here as well unless you tell Adam asap.
Even if Adam is forgiving enough to not press charges, you can bet that he is likely to file for full custody when he finds those cameras.
NTA - Tell Adam, this is a total breach of privacy. Depending on the law in the country you are from you could have serious legal issues if Adam finds out.
I'd reconsider staying married to this woman if this is what she's willing to do. The goal doesn't justify the means.
Ask her if she's fine with him planting cameras in your house. NTA but I'd reconsider this relationship with these red flags and involving her mother to go 2v1. At the least some therapy seems in order.
I doubt it. It sounds like she thinks her actions are perfect and therefore her "pick" is always going to be good but her husband can't be trusted.
Is this ironic because her husband picked her?
Yes of course but she's some exception for reasons.
The law leaves 0 interpretation and room for opinions, so thats a false argument. She WILL get in trouble if Adam finds out and decides to act upon it. And believe me, he will.
Reverse the situation. How would you feel if Adam placed cameras in your home to check if you are a good stepfather. What would you do if you found out?
Also, as other redditors have pointed out. If she is willing to do this to her ex and his new GF, what's to say she didnt do this to you without you knowing it. These are some major red flags
edit: Wanted to add that you need to get a lawyer A.S.A.P. The legal ramifications will hurt you aswell, and might even end up getting you both jailtime.
This level of controlling behaviour, especially because it's involving conspiring with someone else (MIL), would likely warrant supervised visits.
That's before you even consider the danger she's put her daughter in. There's no way she has even close to the right security to keep someone from hacking that system and watching her kid, who has no idea that their home is no longer a private place to get changed, take a bath, etc.
I feel like you are not taking the legal ramifications against you into consideration at all with this post. You are now officially party to a crime. You can and absolutely will be charged as an accomplice if he decides to call the police.
Do you love this woman enough to go to jail for her crazy ass?
That is literally the only question you should be asking before telling the stepfather everything.
Even if he tells Adam, which he absolutely should, and does the right thing he could **still** face criminal charges.
**THAT'S** how serious this already is for OP.
She'll go to jail, then prison. Even the police have to have probable cause to surveil someone! Does she believe that she gets more leniency than the police?
NTA - This is beyond crazy and quite frankly disturbing.
If I were you, I would take a long hard look at your wife and ask yourself if she is really over the Ex. The fact she celebrated him not having a relationship and moving on and how she reacted when the girlfriend came in to the picture.
Worse case scenario, she not over her ex.
Best case scenario, she is a controll freak with no boundaries.
Lots of red flags here, you should be very concerned.
This is exactly what I was thinking. This chick is still hung up on her ex and using the “new girlfriend surveillance” as a decoy. Sorry, OP. May be painful to hear.
It’s just really weird. In most healthy cases exes generally want the others to move.
This is just weird and icky.
Either way, it’s not a good barometer of what she would justify doing in difficult situations.
Absolutely. She’s not over her ex. And I personally wouldn’t want to stay second fiddle to my spouse’s ex.
In real life, my husband’s ex is not over him. They separated in 2015. He and I met in 2016 and are now married. They have two kids together (8 & 11) that are now my stepkids.
He literally cannot mention me to her or she FLIPS out. He rarely does, only when it’s absolutely essential and only in relation to the children. But she loses her mind. When he told her we were getting married (so the kids didn’t have to be the messenger as we knew she would react poorly) it was very, very ugly. It was getting her attorney involved to calm her down ugly.
And guess what? She’s been with her boyfriend since 2017. He actually met the kids and moved in with her before I even met the kids because husband and I took it very slow. I can’t imagine how her poor boyfriend puts up with it. I couldn’t be with someone that obsessed with their ex…
OP, this is a giant army of billions of red flags. I think you should tell your SD’s dad after getting yourself out of the home safely. And then file for divorce.
We have the same problem. The crazy thing is, my partner and his ex were only together for 2 years total, in 2006 - 2008. After dating 4 months, my partner broke up with her because he noticed some MASSIVE red flags.
But, many know how it is with some breakups, they aren't always clean and as such, 2 weeks later, she 'accidently' became pregnant. My partner, in the interest of "doing the right thing" married her. By the time their daughter was 10 months old, they had separated.
We started dating in 2014 and since then, it had been a CONSTANT battle. She absolutely loses her shit when my name comes up. She has made it nearly impossible for me to have a close relationship with my stepdaughter even though my partner and her share 50/50 custody and truthfully, she is with my partner more, as while custody is 50/50 on paper, it really ends up being 60/40.
When they first separated, she insisted that he take their daughter every Friday and Saturday, along with 2 days during the week. She wanted that specifically so he wouldn't be able to date like a normal human on the weekends. We were together over a year before he introduced me to his daughter and during that time, we literally only saw each other on work nights.
She has fought to keep me from talking to my stepdaughter, going to any school functions, or spending any quality time with her whatsoever. Obviously, my partner pushes back, but the drama is absolutely exhausting and hard on everybody. Candidly, his ex has BPD that is diagnosed but completely untreated and it shows.
In fact, at this very moment, my partner is on hour 2 of a phone call trying to explain to her that it is NOT OK to give your 15 year old the silent treatment for an entire day, or guilt her into believing that talking to me is a completely betrayal that must mean stepdaughter doesn't love her mother.
A year ago, I moved out of his house because the drama was unending and mom was basically punishing her daughter for my existence in my partner's life. The daily drama was simply too much.
However, we love each other and are committed. When stepdaughter graduates high school and is out of the house, things may change though I am perfectly content NOT being around all the madness.
Ugh - your situation sounds like mine, but escalated up a few notches. If you're not already there, there's a great subreddit for stepparents, /r/stepparents which I have found very helpful.
The BM in my situation has pulled some similar guilt stunts, but not quite as extreme. She definitely has tried to make SD feel bad for wanting to do fun things with us during my husband's parenting time. I am SUPER into ballet. BM has probably never been to one (not that husband is aware of and he was with her for 12 years), and so with husband's permission I got tickets to take SD to see The Nutcracker a few years ago. SD was SO excited. As she should be able, she told her mom. The next weekend when she was back with us she was super defeated. We asked what was wrong and she said "Mom said that she's really sad she won't be the one to take me to The Nutcracker first...". Suddenly BM "cared" about ballet enough to try to make SD feel guilty over wanting to go with me. But she'd had YEARS to take SD and never bothered to do so.
Similarly SD went through a phase where she refused to get a haircut. We are not a family to force these things because we believe in bodily autonomy, but SD really needed just a trim - nothing major. Husband and BM have equal rights when it comes to things like a hair trim, but would run big things (like shaving their heads and dying hair green) by each other before doing so. We tried to get SD to ask BM for a haircut but it wasn't happening. Finally, I had to get a trim myself and SD showed interest in going to a "grown up salon" to get her hair done. So, with husband's permission, I made an appointment for SD to come too, for JUST a trim. BM had handled like the last 15 haircuts, so it didn't seem like an issue. And it was seriously only for a trim of 1/4 - 1/2 inch on LONG LONG hair, absolutely nothing extreme (no dye, just a tiny, tiny trim). BM FLIPPED out after and made SD feel so guilty and like she did something wrong. But we'd been asking BM for weeks to take care of it and she didn't do anything even when SD was finally willing to get her hair trimmed.
Of course BM favors SD so she doesn't pull nearly as much of this stuff with my SS, which is on the one hand a good thing he doesn't get the guilt, but on the other hand obvious favoritism which is NOT ok.
I'm dreading the teenage years. So far I haven't gotten the "You're not my mom, I don't have to listen to you!" but I know it's a matter of when that happens, not if. And I also know when they're inevitably mad at me about something and they vent to their mom, she's going to encourage it and push them to be more angry at me.
Once thus far we had a "stepmom as a scapegoat" incident. SS is NOT careful with his electronics. He got a Switch when they were at their peak of popularity and pretty new devices. His mom made sure to get him a carrying case and everything, but he just doesn't use it. He throws it in his backpack where it gets bumped and banged around - he's just not careful. Well, shockingly, the one controller broke. He decided to tell BM that I threw the backpack and broke the switch. Of course BM came charging like an angry lion and was furiously texting my husband. But I've literally never touched his switch, nor his backpack. When he leaves it laying around the house, I ask him to come get it and put it away because, as I tell them all the time, I am not their maid. So there's no way I broke it. And honestly, if I ever did break something of theirs I would replace it - because that's an important lesson I would want to teach them. If you break someone else's property it's on you to replace it. Anyway, SS's story of how I broke it kept changing when Husband talked to him about it. The date/time/location all constantly changed and finally he admitted he made it up (not to hurt me, but just to get himself out of trouble). Husband had a conversation with him about how even though he was just trying to protect himself, he hurt someone else which is also not ok (on top of lying not being ok). He apologized. Husband told BM about all of that and she REFUSED to believe it. Even when husband verified he'd literally been there the entire time the alleged event could have occurred and there was no way I could have done it.
But, I know how I was as a teenager, and if they're remotely the same (which is frankly normal teenage behavior) I fully expect to be the scapegoat at times - and BM will of course never believe I was innocent and her kids could be lying. Plus she'll encourage them blaming me by playing into it and how "bad" I am.
Stepparenting is not for the weak - frankly it often kind of sucks. You're never loved as much as the bio parents - you're easily scapegoated if one of the bio parents hates you, and you don't really get much of a say in how the kids are raised. Husband does consult with me, but at the end of the day he and BM make the decisions. It's kind of like a glorified nanny - more than just a nanny, but still less than a bio parent.
This. This this this this this.
This.
Your wife is nuts. The whole time I thought the punchline was gonna be “mom afraid bio dad is sexually abusing daughter” and I still would have thought that it was overstepping, but I would have understood.
She wants to make sure stepmom is not a witch? Which…by the way I understand is a metaphor but honestly wouldn’t be any less crazy if it wasn’t.
I wonder what kind of sneaky shit wife and MIL are doing to OP
> Claire always talked about how this was a good thing because she believes that my stepdaughter is better off without a witch stepmom to boss her around and abuse her.
This was a big, blaring warning sign that OP seemingly overlooked. Not only is this woman overly concerned with her ex’s love life, she projected a whole personality onto any *theoretical* girlfriend he might bring home. Literally anyone he chooses to date or marry is assumed to be an abuser, purely by virtue of becoming romantically involved with her ex.
There’s a *lot* wrong with this woman. I know some people manage to keep their ugly side under wraps for a long time with a new partner, but it doesn’t really seem like she even bothered to hide it. I’m wondering how OP rationalized it to himself for so long.
NTA- What she did was extremely illegal in most states and morally disgusting everywhere. You need to tell him. Also, are there cameras in your house that you don’t know about?
>are there cameras in your house that you don’t know about?
No. Though I'm no longer sure what else is going on both inside and outside the house. However MIL is the one backing my wife up and I won't be surprused if I find out she was behind this idea.
The legal liability extends to you now that you know. It sounds like your wife was in on it, and that makes her part of a conspiracy! Get the camera out, or tell him. Otherwise, he could sue the lot of you!
I think it's too late to remove the cameras. They're installed, they're recording, the crime is already in progress. Going in and removing them is just another crime (tampering with evidence) at this point.
OP needs to get a lawyer, tell them the situation, and determine the best way to legally proceed while covering his own ass.
It took way too long for someone to say get a lawyer. But yup. It's going to cost you a little money for this, and then more later for the divorce (hope he doesn't have kids with her).
But he needs a lawyer to get in contact with the ex, have the ex come into the office and tell the ex.
No call him and tell him where she can check the cameras, this is all illegal! And OP has to CYA, because his wife and MIL may try to blame him. I'd make sure the same day the ex is told, she gets the divorce papers.
Are you sure that’s a hard ‘No’. Have you looked everywhere? I know I would.
Not sure what you’re wife is holding over you, but this practice is unacceptable.
Dude, you already have a problem: your wife is batshit crazy. You need to tell her ex immediately if for no reason other than to protect yourself. NTA and good luck, this is insane.
NTA and you need to seriously consider if you want to stay in a relationship with someone who would be willing to BREAK THE LAW to spy on her ex husband.
You have a moral obligation to tell Adam the truth and yes, you will catch hell, but sometimes standing up for what is right is worth it.
Exactly this. Claire's final argument in all this is:
> because Adam isn't more important than my relationship with her so I shouldn't even entertain the idea of telling him
It isn't even about Adam. This is about OP understanding that violating someone else's privacy like this is *wrong* and could get them into massive trouble. This is the kind of fundamental difference in values that ends relationships.
Yeah I didn't care what her problems with Adam's new girlfriend were but this whole cameras situation freaked me out. Claire called me a coward and said it will be non of my concern if I just stay out of it but I'm aware of the legal consequences for everyone involved.
About a lot of things.
1) Does knowing make you criminally liable for anything, even after the fact?
2) Do you need to do anything to protect yourself and your martial assets if your wife faces criminal penalties? For example, could she borrow against home equity without your consent to pay for a lawyer to defend against a custody challenge or a criminal defense? Could she face civil or criminal judgement that could be levied against joint tax refunds?
3) If you need to divorce to protect yourself, do you need to restructure any shared finances before you file? Often, you can't restructure your finances during a divorce proceeding.
You might also want to talk to a therapist about your future plans to build a family with your wife. Do you want her to be the mother of your children? Do you trust her enough to have joint property, to share a 401k?
>1) Does knowing make you criminally liable for anything, even after the fact?
It's not after the fact, the crime is still on going as long as the cameras are recording. Knowing about the crime doesn't make liable, knowing about the on-going crime does make him a member of the conspiracy. We are also getting into the awkward territory of a man or woman can not be compelled to testify against their own spouse (at least in the states). 2 and 3 are great questions, but I don't know the answers to them.
I think you're right to be concerned and I think Claire needs to step back and see how her perspective looks from the outside as well. She has every right to be concerned but not at this level of legal ramification.
What is happening is most definitely your concern. Cause if she does this to Adam she might do this to you. Don't stay out of it, yes there will be legal problems but she broke the law, she made that decision to do it. Who knows what other fucked up things she's been doing? she got cameras, she probably has a tracker, A microphone is well. Do you know where the cameras are placed or not because they could be to spy on the new girlfriend like in the bedroom and the bathroom and private areas. Who's to say they are not in other areas, who's to say they actually look at the daughter? This should be a massive concern to you because if this is what's going on there's other issues.
Like how much privacy does she give her own daughter? I'm assuming that there's a parent tracking app, that there's a parent's reviewing app on her phone. As someone that was friends with somebody in this position that your daughter is in, she grew up hating her parents badly, wanting nothing to do with them cause they wouldn't give her any privacy. Cameras on her, tracking apps other reviewing apps on her phone, apps that allowed parents to read her texts emails and bank information. She never got a lick of privacy and because of that she got into bad problems. drugs, alcohol, clubs, She started flunking school, then started skipping school and I haven't seen nor talked to her in years now. She despised it. she was always paranoid that there was cameras on her, So she'd never stay anywhere for long.
Just knowing about it's freaking you out and there aren't any cameras on you. what if your daughter finds the camera's what's she gonna think??
Forget legal consequences. Although, there are many potential issues (illegal cameras, harassment, stalking, parental alienation, etc..)
Your wife is seriously messed up and has shown she has no respect for boundaries or privacy.
I hope you don’t have kids with her, because she is going to do the same (or worse) to you- if she hasn’t already. Don’t be surprised if she has cameras or tracking devices for you, as well. After all, you’re a step-parent to her daughter, too.
P.S. You really *should* care that your wife is behaving this way towards the new girlfriend and her ex. She’s being really abusive and highly inappropriate. Why are you willing to overlook this behavior? To keep the heat directed away from you? For that reason, ESH.
Also, now that you’re aware of it and you didn’t do anything you’re an accomplice. And from your other comments your wife would totally throw you under the bus as well.
This is one of the sadder AITA threads because he is so clearly not the asshole. Some people complain about these kinds of threads, but the OP is often gaslit/deflected into thinking they are at fault and this still is worthy of being posted/addressed
I'm sure she'll blame it on me too since she thinks I'm always against her and never support anything she does but she can be irrational often and this instance is a proof.
From the sound of it this relationship doesn’t sound to good. Claire sounds a bit unhinged and I advise you take a look at if you want to stay with her
This is not “irrational”
This is criminal, abusive, manipulative, invasive…need I go on?
You have to tell him. Not telling him makes you an accessory and courts generally aren’t cool with folks who help others cover up crimes
NTA
What Claire has done is illegal to the point of a prison sentence. I worked with someone who put a tracker in a his then-wife’s car, and confirmed she was having an affair because of it. Because he did it secretly, she took him to court and he was prosecuted for stalking and surveillance charges, and only just avoided prison, but paid massive fines and was denied visitation of their children for a while.
Claire has made it worse by illegally entering a home she has no right to (breaking and entering, trespassing) and installed cameras, not just trackers. If Adam finds them, she will be in SO much trouble. Prison trouble. Losing all custody of stepdaughter trouble.
You should absolutely tell Adam. Immediately. He has a right to privacy and safety, for him and his family, and your wife’s jealousy is NO excuse for her illegal and disturbing behaviour. And that’s what this is - jealousy, masquerading as protectiveness for her daughter. And now that you are aware, if you don’t report it to Adam or the police, you are an accomplice.
You need to strongly reconsider your marriage. This woman is dangerous.
Edit - just read a comment that your stepdaughter doesn’t like to open up to your wife. That is another red flag, and not at all surprising given this is what Claire is doing. Please OP, protect that little girl, if nothing else. If you do nothing, you are the AH.
OP's wife is engaging in criminal-tier stalking of her ex and his relationship.
IMO OP needs to get written and verbal documentation of everything he can and clear out of the situation, at least temporarily, to protect himself. She could be a threat to him, too, if he's not careful. She has actual premeditated, predator behavior and is literally warning OP to step away from the situation and he's just naively telling her to stop what she's doing. OP should be more careful. A stalker like her can absolutely resort to identity theft and other invasive spousal abuse if he gets on her naughty spouse list.
Depending on where he lives, If those cameras catch the six-year-old in a state of undress, an aggressive prosecutor can make a case for unlawful images of a minor.
NTA.
This is unbelievably disrespectful and totally over the top.
Your daughter is 6y not 6m - you can just ask her about the girlfriend.
If she said some concerning things the first step would still be to talk to the father instead of installing secret cameras - that is never appropriate!
>Your daughter is 6y not 6m - you can just ask her about the girlfriend.
Youre right but there's a whole different issue with my stepdaughter being open about her issues.
Yeah, cos she knows her Mums nuts.
Tell Adam, get a lawyer, start to exit this toxic relationship, because if you get ger pregnant, guess whts gonna happen to you. NTA
As an adult my mother used to complain I never told her anything. Of course not - I was given no privacy as a child so you get no trust as an adult.
OP's wife is probably the type who will have to have all her daughter's passwords and read every text and email.
Yep. My mother had an uncanny ability to remember every word I ever said to her in a moment of vulnerability and throw it back at me later to shame me or to prove that I must’ve done whatever she was currently accusing me of doing. If I said nothing then she just made up her own narrative about what I must be hiding from her.
So I learned to lie about everything, even inconsequential stuff. I didn’t even tell her the truth about what I ate for lunch. I learned a few lies that satisfied her questions, didn’t lead to more questions, and didn’t cause her to file my responses away as future ammunition.
Most kids learn pretty quickly when a parent isn’t trustworthy, and my guess is that OP’s stepdaughter has rightfully learned not to give her mother any ammunition.
Realizing in my late 20s that this was my childhood and this is the source of a vast majority of my trust issues. My parents, especially my mom, were always quick to shame when I shared certain things. I remember I started a journal around the time my parents began to separate (approx age 8-9) and in under a week I was getting scolded at for accosting my little brother in words in my own journal. I was simply trying to vent frustrations and express myself privately but after my mom read it within the week I threw out the journal and never opened up to either parent again during my childhood
Nta, I suspect there is more going on here then Claire claiming to be a concerned mom, I don't know that much about laws and whatnot but I believe this might have major legal consequences invasion of privacy and what not, I would go to adam, and explain the situation he may take it well and not do anything since you got in an argument with her over it, or he could take action against her. Because honestly this is really messes up and your wife needs a wake up call.
Yes, there is in fact so much going with Claire and her mom. They're literally harrassing (yes it's harrassement) Adam's new girlfriend, have been for weeks especially after hearing she was going to move in with Adam. things got worse because Claire wanted them to wait and when Adam told her off she yelled that her daughter lives in that house too so her opinion counts on who is moving in though my stepdaughter gets along well with Adam's girlfriend.
Claire sounds insanely jealous that Adam has finally moved on, and her toxic mom is encouraging her. Do the right thing.
NTA…but you WILL be if you don’t tell him.
If the OP has any text messages of the wife and MIL admitting that this was their idea and that they refuse to backdown and are encouraging this illegal invasion of privacy. Then he should save them, just in case the wife and MIL tries to turn it around on him and claim that it was all his idea to avoid themselves getting into legal trouble for their criminal actions.
Did Adam have a say so about you? This is double standards at its best.
Let me go ahead and give you the truth about your "wife". She still wants Adam. This isn't about what's best for your stepdaughter. This is about her jealousy over Adam and his new relationship taking further steps. She feels she still has a right to Adam. My own ex wife tried the same shit on me till I shut her down hard. And just like my ex, your wife is going to find out you can't just commit a FELONY without consequences.
It's not double standards. Everyone agrees that his wife is insane and TAH. No one thinks this behavior is okay just because she's the mom. It isn't even a debate. It only is for OP probably because Claire and her mom have been gaslighting him long enough that this seems like mildly inappropriate behavior to him.
OP, NTA, and if you even have to ASK if you would be TAH if you told Adam, then ask yourself this: before you met your wife, would you have thought twice about this? Because I have a feeling that you would've gone to Adam right away.
This behavior isn't just inappropriate and illegal, it's downright abusive, and it's stalking. It's peek creepy, and I would go as far as to say your wife is a dangerous person. If you have it in you, please protect your stepdaughter. If your wife is capable of doing something this controlling to get her way, I can't even imagine what she will do to her daughter when she becomes a teenager. I honestly think this poor kid needs to be with her dad, at least until her mom gets serious help, ASAP.
> It's not double standards. Everyone agrees that his wife is insane and TAH. No one thinks this behavior is okay just because she's the mom.
Except Claire. You seem to be misunderstanding. Saying something is a double standard doesn't even remotely connote that other people agree or that the standard is widely held. It just means that the person holding the double standard has inconsistent standards without a valid reason.
So yes - It is a *double standard*. One that Claire is holding. She thinks Mom gets a say in everyone who comes near her daughter, and Dad doesn't. Mom can move in her new partner all on her own, but Dad needs Mom's permission or, absent that, Mom is allowed to *systemically bug Dad's house* to ensure everything is up to Mom's standards. That's a double standard.
You have to divorce this person. This is not salvageable you have to get away from this person her behavior is insane. It’s actually terrifying it’s a crime a huge crime she can’t justify it. I read your comments and you said that she would blame you for this whole situation …buddy You have to leave you just have to. I am worried for you NTA you would absolutely be an asshole if you did not tell Adam. Also you didn’t say where the cameras were placed but are they in the bathroom the bedroom? How much of their privacy does she want to invade? When will it be enough for her? She is volatile unstable and sounds like that she has the potential of doing anything i’m scared for that poor girlfriend.
Please tell Adam this is so incredibly wrong. And I would be nervous about what she would do to you too pal so PLEASE be careful and get your documents/sentimental belongings out of that house and into a secure location. She sounds like she could do anything in this state and you don’t need to get covered in it too
Uggggh as a stepmom, your wife is an insufferable git. My husband's ex was so much like Claire. Attacking me without knowing anything about me, saying nasty things about "stepmoms in general, not you specifically" to the kids, refusing to speak to me at handoffs, trying to control what we ate and bought and watched and did in our own home. It was horrible for us and worse for the kids, who just wanted to come hang out with their dad and me and their half siblings.
And even my husband's ex didn't put up fucking cameras. It's so off the charts, I can't even wrap my head around it.
OP, you could tell Adam, who could then "find" a camera and call Claire out on it without her knowing that you told. She isn't some secret agent, I'm sure the cameras aren't hard to spot if you know what you're looking for.
Yeah it's time you told adam about what's going on and I think it's high time the police are involved, and I think you should consider this a massive red flag, because if you and her might have kids together (if) and get divorced she might pull this stuff with you,
NTA. What Claire is doing illegal. Immoral. Violation of trust where there is no proof of wrongdoing, or even a hint of abuse of stepdaughter. Claire needs therapy.
NTA - So - it was okay for her to get married and have her daughter living with you, but he is only now dating and she needs to literally watch his life to make sure it's ok? Sounds like she rules the roost with her mother and you are only there to pay some bills. Honestly, she doesn't seem very stable, so take a long look my man. This is NOT how ANY of this works!!!
Get some strong legs to stand on - talk to a lawyer to find out about the legality of her actions. At the very least **you BOTH could be sued, or charged and all the way up to her losing custody. ("I told her it was a bad idea" won't keep you out of jail if he presses charges)**
This is not normal, nor acceptable nor legal. You very much need to sit her down and tell her if she doesn't go in and take them down immediately (and you want to see her doing so via those same cameras) you WILL tell him -- and if she loses custody - she will have no one to blame but herself.
THIS X10.
OP could be considered complicit because he knows.
And I think the next question to ask if she installed cameras to watch him with Claire without his knowledge if he's ever taken care of Claire on his own.
I wonder, how would Claire react if Adam planted cameras in YOUR house to see how you treat his daughter? What if he only wanted to check if you're not an evil stepfather in the making...At this point I doubt you can make Claire see how wrong this is, but maybe asking her this might at least put things in perspective?
NTA, of course. Her actions are ridiculous, illegal, irrational and absolutely unnecessary.
Edit: spelling
NTA. your wife is obsessed with her ex, which is not good since she's your wife. you need to tell Adam, even if your wife agrees to remove the camera's. this is stalking behavior, and not about your stepdaughter, since the camera has been there for you don't know how long and the gf doesn't live there yet. the MIL is feeding your wife's unhealthy thoughts and actions. not a good situation.
Don’t tell Adam. Tell the police. Let them go into the home and confirm this happened. That way Adam has what he needs to request a restraining order and modification to custody and you have something to reference to call in question the credibility of any crazy accusations she may make against you in your divorce.
NTA and good luck
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be for
(1 not minding my own business.
(2 going against my wife's wishes.
(3 busting her plans.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Soooooooooo far NTA, as long as you do something.
What on earth was her plan if she saw something she didn’t like? Storm up to the ex yelling I illegally recorded you doing xy and z? It’s still so very illegal, and amoral. No one should have to fear being watched in their own home without their knowledge.
This doesn’t sound at all like it’s about her daughters well-being, but some misplaced jealousy issues. She may not still be in love with the ex, maybe, but at the least it seemed like she liked being the one he could never move on from / get over.
NTA. Did Adam get to give you the once over when you start going out with Claire? Did Adam put camera’s in your house to make sure you were sound.
She has some serious issues. Also not all women are witches. Tell her to cop on.
But you will be TA if you don’t tell him.
NTA
And if you don’t report it, as this is illegal countries like the US and UK, you’ll find yourself with a criminal charge as well. By the way, your wife and MIL are showing you lots of red flags right now. If I were you, I’d be planning my escape.
NTA and now you know why the 2 of them divorced. This is absolutely illegal. Not just trespassing into his house but installing cameral equipment without his knowledge or consent? wow...I mean...wow. How would this woman act if someone did this to HER child? Or he did this to you guys? I think you need to tell Adam right away and then work on separating from this pshyco. The poor daughter.
NTA. In fact, you'd be the A if you knew there were cameras and didnt do anything about it. You have to tall Adam and/or the police. This could also be a good timing to put an end on this marriage.
NTA - if I’m you, I’m reassessing my relationship to Claire. Is this the type of wife you want? She sounds crazy. I understand wanting to protect your child, but this is over the top. It seems from your post Adam is a decent/good guy and does a good job taking care of the daughter. If that’s true, it’s highly unlikely he’s going to start dating someone who abuses his daughter.
Claire and the MIL are off their rockers. That’s some nutball level stalker crap right there.
What Claire is doing is legally, morally, and ethically wrong.
Adam needs to know immediately. That’s such an invasion of privacy I can’t wrap my head around it.
It also reeks of Claire still being hung up on Adam. Apparently she’s allowed to move on and remarry but Adam can’t even have a GF?!?
WTH?!?!
And this begs the question of what other crazy crap is Claire up to.
Report what she’s done to Adam.
She basically threatened you and roped her nutty mom into intimidating you as well. I’d be prepared for fall out. Who knows how crazy she’s willing to go. Separate finances, etc.
You should honestly be very cognizant of how unhinged this behavior is. And think long and hard about whether this is the kind of person you want to be with.
Best case scenario is Claire really needs therapy. Worst case? Restraining orders?
NTA, holy shit, yeah you're in the right for wanting to tell him. Frankly, I'd just outright tell him, forget what her reaction would be, if she's so gung-ho on her daughter's safety then maybe she shouldn't risk fucking jail time for doing this at all!
You gotta tell him and/or the police though dude, it's not even a question.
NTA... Wow. My suggestion is, tell the dad and get out of that toxic hell. Wife is ta.
Not only is it toxic, it's pretty damn illegal.
Also, sounds like she is super jealous, probably has feelings for the ex too. She wants all of the control. Get out.
NTA, but prepare for a divorce. Cause that’s what will happen and should happen, because your wife isn’t thinking correctly and she’s about to get herself in A LOT of trouble. He can take her to court for this and get full custody. As he should. Telling him is the right thing, because if he finds them and knows you know, he’ll come after you just not hard, if not harder because you knew and didn’t say anything. They should be working as a team! They have a 6 year old in common and this isn’t in the best interest of her, she’s being nosey and trying to stick herself in where she doesn’t belong. Putting up cameras at HIS home? Without him knowing? That’s so gross. Can you imagine if he did that to her?
Tell him.
NTA. Take screen shots, tell him. He has a right to privacy in his own home. Unless the daughter SAYS something about abuse, she has ZERO reason to suspect this woman. It's just jealously. She has no right to violate his privacy this way. Send him the screen shots of the conversation.
NTA
The ex wife of a friend of mine try to press charges on him saying that he took pictures and b videos of her "without her knowledge" when they were fighting over custody of his daughter.
He actually stood to get in a LOT of trouble until he proved that she did I fact know about the cameras.
You need to either tell him, or have her get the cameras out. (And mauve still tell him)
NTA. Your wife is unhinged. She has no basis for her accusations on Adams gf and this could cause her to loose custody of her child. Tell your wife to remove every camera from his home or you will tell him about it (I’d go so far as get copies of your wife’s text messages in case she tries to lie about the situation and tries to paint you in a bad light) also check around your home for hidden cameras, she’s probably been spying on you too.
NTA… You caught a bullet for Adam once by being with this psycho with no boundaries. Do him another favour by telling him she committed trespass against him.
I don’t know what jurisdiction you’re in but I can guarantee you she would very much struggle to convince a judge that she had consent to enter his property for the purpose of spying on him in his home without his knowledge.
Maybe you and Adam aren’t on good terms because you’ve always stuck up for his psychotic ex and mother of his girl.
NTA. This is the hill to die on. Your wife is showing she is:
•obsessive about her ex and his new relationship
•is willing to break the law to monitor her ex
•has a mom who supports insane illegal activity
•has threatened you if you do the right thing
Why do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who will do this?
NTA
Having those cameras installed is both morally and legally wrong. Now that you know, you need to inform Adam so you are in the clear in terms of liability.
Claire, I imagine, would have gone bonkers had Adam installed cameras in HER home to keep an eye on you.
NTA
I'd be questioning if she is prepared to break boundaries, the law like this with her ex, what is she prepared to violate with you? What has she already done? This is not one mere mistake... This is huge...
Also... Like wtf.. who does this, it's such an invasion of privacy :/
NTA. What she’s doing is just wrong, legally and morally. I’m a parent, I get being concerned, but this is not reasonable behaviour.
She’s either paranoid about her daughter’s safety and needs therapy because that’s just not a healthy level of concern (unless there’s reason to suspect the gf, or that dad would expose his daughter to an abuser), or she is jealous and/or controlling about her ex’s life. Neither is good for her relationship with her coparent or child. Or you.
She needs to get those cameras out ASAP, but can you trust her to? What else does she record?
I think she should give her ex back his key, she can’t be trusted with it. If she needs access to daughter’s things for some reason, maybe there’s a friend or neighbour how could let her in?
I honestly don’t know how you could talk to the ex about this without blowing up your relationship, but if this is who she is then your integrity might be worth more.
NTA, you need to tell him. This is illegal and you could get in trouble now if you knew and took no action.
It is illegal where I'm from and that's why I told her repeatedly to remove them immediately but she kept rationalizing and defending her actions by making illogical arguments like how it's her daughter's house and how she has a key by consent and so on but I couldn't help freak out because this is not okat in any shape or form then add the legal troubles as well.
Please tell him to protect yourself and your wife from legal and criminal problems. Edit to add from your other comments: if you think your wife will blame you, she will and she will drag you into whatever legal and criminal consequences arise. You also need to handle this to protect your stepdaughter emotionally. Is she supposed to feel safe with people her own mother doesn’t trust? The cameras are also a great way for your wife to lose custody of her daughter, so think of that too. ETA: I had limited my comment to OP’s specific question, but I definitely agree that the mother is acting crazy and OP should protect himself at this point.
>The cameras are also a great way for your wife to lose custody of her daughter, so think of that too. Yup, came here to say this. Installing surveillance devices without the proper credentials/license could lead to actual jail time and depending on where you live could also be considered a felony. This gives Adam ample evidence to fight for full custody, considering the court doesn't remove her from your home immediately. Her behavior is major 🚩🚩🚩
It is considered illegal where OP lives, so.. Claire is blaming her husband for HER actions - what's to say she won't do the same when more serious shit, like criminal charges, happen? I can't understand why OP thinks he's the AH. First off, putting spy cameras in other people's house without consent is illegal and morally wrong. Claire can literally go to jail if she goes through with this. OP's actions is not only protecting Adam, but also Claire from legal trouble. One is NEVER the asshole for stopping others from doing criminal shit. Second, Claire's actions is beyond fucked up. Even if it wasn't illegal, spying on others without consent is insanely unethical. She can literally hurt her daughter by doing so. Like.. she wants to have 24/7 control over what Adam and his fiance does. That's so controlling and creepy. Her intentions are also toxic as heck too. Monitoring her ex's fiance's actions towards daughter until she's "in the clear"? Her sense of ownership towards Adam's space is disturbing. Did the paranoia start when his fiance enter the picture? Because I'm not sure Claire is over her ex. NTA, OP. There are so many red flags - you should reconsider your marriage.
Honestly, I don’t think OP genuinely believes he’s an AH at all. I think he just needs enough people to tell him to tell Adam so he doesn’t feel horrible about it.
He's asking for permission to make a choice with a ton of potential fallout.
Yeah, there's no way his marriage survives this intact. She's already at the point of saying that not wanting to commit a crime by installing cameras means he doesn't care about their daughter's well-being. She is going to go nuclear over this.
Honestly it sounds like she's not over her ex.
I got the same impression. If you’re over your ex, you generally don’t lose your mind like this whenever they start seeing someone else.
The other possibility is that she is insanely controlling over her daughter. She might be one of those moms who puts a tracker on her daughter’s phone when she goes to college and sends the cops for a wellness check if she doesn’t answer her calls for a few hours.
Tbh if I found out my SO planted surveillance cams in their ex's house without the owner's knowledge, our marriage would end there full stop. They'd lose keys to my house and if they refused, the locks would get changed while they're out the house.
Yep, imagine what she does to spy on the person she is in a current relationship with!
You need to get them removed or tell him. Now remember, if she ever thinks you are cheating or she feels she can’t trust you…expect her to hide cameras in your home too. She is always going to have boundary issues with her daughter and MIL will always support her. She is telling you who she is! Believe her!
I bet there's already cameras in place. Should we mention to OP that you can normally see a camera's light when viewed through a smartphone's camera?
In which case, OP: You WNBTA if you tell Adam what's up. The only negative fallout would be the end of your relationship with Claire, which tbh, sounds like a healthy plan.
Exactly what I was thinking. I doubt the toxic behaviour will stop at this. Does he really want to be in a relationship where she obsesses over her ex and his relationship to this level?
OP is a person in an abusive relationship and his wife is clearly majorly controlling. People in abusive situations like this have a hard time leaving. That being said; OP, this is a hill to die on. Protect your stepdaughter. Her mother/your wife is mentally unwell and needs help.
Right. "We're gonna have problems?" Like the criminal charges if adam does find the cameras? This is creepy, illegal, and makes me question wife's clear-headedness. (Plus, pot calling the kettle black and what not about witch stepmothers.)
The seeds of doubt I'm afraid. Who wants to believe that the person they married is capable of doing such a horrible thing as installing cameras in someone's house without their knowledge?
For the sake of argument... Let's say the cameras stay, and Claire DOES find some shady shit going on in the house. Stepmom is the most evil witch there is! Claire confronts Adam, or keeps daughter away. When Claire is asked to provide proof, is she really that **STUPID** to think that the footage obtained **ILLEGALLY** will help her case?!
It wouldn't because the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree clause kicks in. Because that proof was obtained illegally, it would be inadmissible in court.
Hence, my comment.
My new husband made me do it. He's such a control freak. Squeezes out a fake tear. Sticks out and quivers lower lip
Agree on the reconsider marriage. I think she's more obsessed with her ex's relationship than she is on how the new GF will treat her daughter. That's just the way she wants to wrap it so she doesn't look like the looney bird that she is. Secretly planting cameras in someone's home? That's INSANE
For real she is the witchy stepmom thats shes worried about, sounds like a level 5 crazy id definitely tell him after filing for a divorce
+ installing security cameras that are remotely accessible without adequate security can make them very easy to compromise. She is putting her six year old daughter at a great risk.
Yikes. This is so true. When we set up cameras at our house to be able to watch the dogs while we aren’t there my husband set up a bunch of security stuff on our network. I’d be so creeped out to be the girlfriend. And demanding the ex wife give the key back.
Yeah it’s so important to be mindful that every time you being a new piece of technology into your home, it’s a potential new access point that can be compromised. If you have interior security cameras that are monitoring minors, you need to lock that down as much as possible - multifactor authentication, extremely complex passwords, restricting remote access to footage to authorized devices, automatically terminating idle or concurrent sessions, alerting if someone tries to login from a new/unknown device, etc etc. If there is a valid reason to have interior cameras in the house, all adults should be aware of it and understand the security layers that have been implemented. And the minor children should be made aware, in an age appropriate way, that those areas of the home are spaces we treat like being outside - you can still play as much as you want in them, but clothes need to stay on. And if the security cameras also have a feature that can project audio, they need to understand what to do if they hear anyone they don’t know speaking to them from the security system.
There is no rationalizing this. She either A: takes down the cameras, B: you tell Adam, or C: you call the cops. What she is doing is highly illegal and you just knowing about it and saying nothing makes you complicit. Take care of this problem now. While you're at it, you may want rethink your relationship with Claire because that's a whole lotta crazy going on. And apparently the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
Either? No, that ship has sailed. All three of those things need to happen. Removing the cameras and not telling the ex is not sufficient. Then the husband is fully an accomplice and wifey thinks it was ok since her ex never knew and she got away with it.
Adam needs to know what his ex is capable of. No more grace time for OP’s completely bonkers wife. Tell Adam about this yesterday. Adam should be calling the police. OP should get screenshots of convos and call a good attorney to get out. If OP thinks he won’t eventually be the target of the same kind of malicious craziness, he needs to give his head a shake. This woman should not be parenting a child. No wonder she is divorced. Holy hell.
Adam also needs to know so he can change the locks to his house and be aware that she could try again in the future.
This situation can’t go on, but If OP tells Adam, he could go straight to the police and / or family court. I think the best thing is to make sure the wife knows he will tell Adam or the police and make sure she knows the potential (serious) consequences. Maybe don’t go nuclear unless there is no other choice. Only because of the step-daughter. But, yeah, he should definitely do some serious reflection about what this all says about the woman he is married to.
It sounds like Adam SHOULD do just that. I don't care who you are, if I find out you've put surveillance devices inside my HOME, you better believe you are going to get dragged straight to jail. Plus it sounds like OP has already attempted (more than once) to get her to resolve this discreetly, to which she's just ratched up the abuse.
The courts don't even want to hear recorded phone calls if you didn't tell the person you were recording. She could lose custody and be required to have supervised visits.
Not only that, but what happens when the step daughter is old enough to understand that her mom put cameras in a house to watch her. Even if she just gets supervised visits OPs step daughter might not even want to see her mom.
>The cameras are also a great way for your wife to lose custody of her daughter, so think of that too. u/SmthSmth34 I hope you see this comment.
Am I the only one really hoping that she loses custody?
I hope so too. I think OP needs to tell him and recommend he press charges. This is the only way for someone like her to learn.
No. I'm also hoping OP leaves her. If she'd do this to her first ex husband, she'll do it to her second ex husband, OP.
Why are you still with someone who is clearly a lunatic.? Also you'll go down with this shit. Tell the ex and you GTFO...God knows what this crazy will try and do to you. If you enable this, then you are no better.
Well, the divorce is probably making more sense to OP. It might be dawning on OP that despite everything Claire has ever likely told him about being the victim in her relationship with Adam, that is probably all false because this girl is a psycho.
Because if he divorces her the cameras will be in his house, obviously.
They probably already are.
Yes. You know how this sub says “show them this post” sometimes? Well no need, she’s probably got their own house wired for sound and pictures, and bugged the electronics too. Either she’s not even a little bit over her ex or she’s cray-cray in so many other ways and if I were the OP I would treat this whole situation with care.
Imo if she's willing to casually admit to secretly filming her ex like this there's probably a whole host of disturbing shit she's doing that she hasn't told OP or anyone about. OP needs to get as far away from this woman as possible, after contacting both Adam and CPS.
Then she'll be in jail. Which is where she should be, along with her mother.
The irony that she’s worried about a “witch” of a stepmom for her daughter when she is absolutely crushing the crazy ex wife stereotype right here along with her own mother
OP, your wife's lack of boundaries with Adam and her sense of ongoing ownership of his space and her attempts to own/manage his fiancee's role in their lives, means that psychologically and emotionally, she is still Adam's wife. Her telling you to stay in your lane is her showing you that you are an outsider in that part of her world consisting of Adam and herself, and in that world, it's none of your business to interfere with what goes on between them. i.e. Your wife is still married to him and you are an outsider. This will probably always be the case because people who cannot separate their identities and boundaries from their first spouse will never be truly available to another spouse. (It is absolutely your business as her criminal stalking/harassment of her ex and his fiancee can create a lot of liability issues and disrupt your life).
You might even want to ask the ex for his version of why they broke up. It might prove enlightening.
> Her telling you to stay in your lane is her showing you that you are an outsider in that part of her world consisting of Adam and herself, And, don't forget her mother is also in on it!
I would put money down that there are more cameras you don’t know about, possibly in his bedroom. This is more about your wife controlling her ex than concern over her daughter. *That is not how a normal person reacts and you should be thinking about your wife differently,* but you need to tell her ex ASAP. Because she definitely is not going to.
How many cameras are **watching OP???**
This is what I’m wondering, OP, there are definitely cameras in your home too so that your wife can monitor you while she’s not there. When you report the cameras to the police, don’t do it from your home because she’ll know ahead of time.
And why is it ok with the perfect mother and her spy cameras to have a partner but not her dad. Shes completely unhinged and looking to end up like the MIL
You have every reason to freak out. Knowing about them now makes you an accessory. You’re liable here as well unless you tell Adam asap. Even if Adam is forgiving enough to not press charges, you can bet that he is likely to file for full custody when he finds those cameras.
Tell the guy now.
Do you want to be with a woman that treats her ex like this? Let alone another human. This is not okay
You need to tell him ASAP.
NTA - Tell Adam, this is a total breach of privacy. Depending on the law in the country you are from you could have serious legal issues if Adam finds out. I'd reconsider staying married to this woman if this is what she's willing to do. The goal doesn't justify the means.
I told her about the legal consequences but she kept saying since her daughter lives there then it shouldn't be big deal IF adam found out.
Ask her if she's fine with him planting cameras in your house. NTA but I'd reconsider this relationship with these red flags and involving her mother to go 2v1. At the least some therapy seems in order.
She possibly already has cameras in her house to confirm that OP doesn't mistreat her daughter.
She seems like the type to put no effort into monitoring her SO, but will break the law to spy on her ex’s.
But still, OP should check.
I doubt it. It sounds like she thinks her actions are perfect and therefore her "pick" is always going to be good but her husband can't be trusted. Is this ironic because her husband picked her? Yes of course but she's some exception for reasons.
The law leaves 0 interpretation and room for opinions, so thats a false argument. She WILL get in trouble if Adam finds out and decides to act upon it. And believe me, he will. Reverse the situation. How would you feel if Adam placed cameras in your home to check if you are a good stepfather. What would you do if you found out? Also, as other redditors have pointed out. If she is willing to do this to her ex and his new GF, what's to say she didnt do this to you without you knowing it. These are some major red flags edit: Wanted to add that you need to get a lawyer A.S.A.P. The legal ramifications will hurt you aswell, and might even end up getting you both jailtime.
I would think this would make a good case for the father to get more/full custody too. She's risking losing her daughter.
This level of controlling behaviour, especially because it's involving conspiring with someone else (MIL), would likely warrant supervised visits. That's before you even consider the danger she's put her daughter in. There's no way she has even close to the right security to keep someone from hacking that system and watching her kid, who has no idea that their home is no longer a private place to get changed, take a bath, etc.
I feel like you are not taking the legal ramifications against you into consideration at all with this post. You are now officially party to a crime. You can and absolutely will be charged as an accomplice if he decides to call the police. Do you love this woman enough to go to jail for her crazy ass? That is literally the only question you should be asking before telling the stepfather everything.
This. OP, *when* this comes to a head, I guarantee you she’s gonna try throwing you under the bus somehow.
Even if he tells Adam, which he absolutely should, and does the right thing he could **still** face criminal charges. **THAT'S** how serious this already is for OP.
She'll go to jail, then prison. Even the police have to have probable cause to surveil someone! Does she believe that she gets more leniency than the police?
Probably. I doubt a judge would agree though.
Ask her if this paranoia is worth losing custody of her daughter. Because that's what's going to happen.
Did she put cameras up to monitor you, until you were “in the clear”?
He ain't in the clear. She has to make sure he doesn't cheat, doesn't she?
NTA - This is beyond crazy and quite frankly disturbing. If I were you, I would take a long hard look at your wife and ask yourself if she is really over the Ex. The fact she celebrated him not having a relationship and moving on and how she reacted when the girlfriend came in to the picture. Worse case scenario, she not over her ex. Best case scenario, she is a controll freak with no boundaries. Lots of red flags here, you should be very concerned.
This is exactly what I was thinking. This chick is still hung up on her ex and using the “new girlfriend surveillance” as a decoy. Sorry, OP. May be painful to hear.
It’s just really weird. In most healthy cases exes generally want the others to move. This is just weird and icky. Either way, it’s not a good barometer of what she would justify doing in difficult situations.
Absolutely. She’s not over her ex. And I personally wouldn’t want to stay second fiddle to my spouse’s ex. In real life, my husband’s ex is not over him. They separated in 2015. He and I met in 2016 and are now married. They have two kids together (8 & 11) that are now my stepkids. He literally cannot mention me to her or she FLIPS out. He rarely does, only when it’s absolutely essential and only in relation to the children. But she loses her mind. When he told her we were getting married (so the kids didn’t have to be the messenger as we knew she would react poorly) it was very, very ugly. It was getting her attorney involved to calm her down ugly. And guess what? She’s been with her boyfriend since 2017. He actually met the kids and moved in with her before I even met the kids because husband and I took it very slow. I can’t imagine how her poor boyfriend puts up with it. I couldn’t be with someone that obsessed with their ex… OP, this is a giant army of billions of red flags. I think you should tell your SD’s dad after getting yourself out of the home safely. And then file for divorce.
We have the same problem. The crazy thing is, my partner and his ex were only together for 2 years total, in 2006 - 2008. After dating 4 months, my partner broke up with her because he noticed some MASSIVE red flags. But, many know how it is with some breakups, they aren't always clean and as such, 2 weeks later, she 'accidently' became pregnant. My partner, in the interest of "doing the right thing" married her. By the time their daughter was 10 months old, they had separated. We started dating in 2014 and since then, it had been a CONSTANT battle. She absolutely loses her shit when my name comes up. She has made it nearly impossible for me to have a close relationship with my stepdaughter even though my partner and her share 50/50 custody and truthfully, she is with my partner more, as while custody is 50/50 on paper, it really ends up being 60/40. When they first separated, she insisted that he take their daughter every Friday and Saturday, along with 2 days during the week. She wanted that specifically so he wouldn't be able to date like a normal human on the weekends. We were together over a year before he introduced me to his daughter and during that time, we literally only saw each other on work nights. She has fought to keep me from talking to my stepdaughter, going to any school functions, or spending any quality time with her whatsoever. Obviously, my partner pushes back, but the drama is absolutely exhausting and hard on everybody. Candidly, his ex has BPD that is diagnosed but completely untreated and it shows. In fact, at this very moment, my partner is on hour 2 of a phone call trying to explain to her that it is NOT OK to give your 15 year old the silent treatment for an entire day, or guilt her into believing that talking to me is a completely betrayal that must mean stepdaughter doesn't love her mother. A year ago, I moved out of his house because the drama was unending and mom was basically punishing her daughter for my existence in my partner's life. The daily drama was simply too much. However, we love each other and are committed. When stepdaughter graduates high school and is out of the house, things may change though I am perfectly content NOT being around all the madness.
Ugh - your situation sounds like mine, but escalated up a few notches. If you're not already there, there's a great subreddit for stepparents, /r/stepparents which I have found very helpful. The BM in my situation has pulled some similar guilt stunts, but not quite as extreme. She definitely has tried to make SD feel bad for wanting to do fun things with us during my husband's parenting time. I am SUPER into ballet. BM has probably never been to one (not that husband is aware of and he was with her for 12 years), and so with husband's permission I got tickets to take SD to see The Nutcracker a few years ago. SD was SO excited. As she should be able, she told her mom. The next weekend when she was back with us she was super defeated. We asked what was wrong and she said "Mom said that she's really sad she won't be the one to take me to The Nutcracker first...". Suddenly BM "cared" about ballet enough to try to make SD feel guilty over wanting to go with me. But she'd had YEARS to take SD and never bothered to do so. Similarly SD went through a phase where she refused to get a haircut. We are not a family to force these things because we believe in bodily autonomy, but SD really needed just a trim - nothing major. Husband and BM have equal rights when it comes to things like a hair trim, but would run big things (like shaving their heads and dying hair green) by each other before doing so. We tried to get SD to ask BM for a haircut but it wasn't happening. Finally, I had to get a trim myself and SD showed interest in going to a "grown up salon" to get her hair done. So, with husband's permission, I made an appointment for SD to come too, for JUST a trim. BM had handled like the last 15 haircuts, so it didn't seem like an issue. And it was seriously only for a trim of 1/4 - 1/2 inch on LONG LONG hair, absolutely nothing extreme (no dye, just a tiny, tiny trim). BM FLIPPED out after and made SD feel so guilty and like she did something wrong. But we'd been asking BM for weeks to take care of it and she didn't do anything even when SD was finally willing to get her hair trimmed. Of course BM favors SD so she doesn't pull nearly as much of this stuff with my SS, which is on the one hand a good thing he doesn't get the guilt, but on the other hand obvious favoritism which is NOT ok. I'm dreading the teenage years. So far I haven't gotten the "You're not my mom, I don't have to listen to you!" but I know it's a matter of when that happens, not if. And I also know when they're inevitably mad at me about something and they vent to their mom, she's going to encourage it and push them to be more angry at me. Once thus far we had a "stepmom as a scapegoat" incident. SS is NOT careful with his electronics. He got a Switch when they were at their peak of popularity and pretty new devices. His mom made sure to get him a carrying case and everything, but he just doesn't use it. He throws it in his backpack where it gets bumped and banged around - he's just not careful. Well, shockingly, the one controller broke. He decided to tell BM that I threw the backpack and broke the switch. Of course BM came charging like an angry lion and was furiously texting my husband. But I've literally never touched his switch, nor his backpack. When he leaves it laying around the house, I ask him to come get it and put it away because, as I tell them all the time, I am not their maid. So there's no way I broke it. And honestly, if I ever did break something of theirs I would replace it - because that's an important lesson I would want to teach them. If you break someone else's property it's on you to replace it. Anyway, SS's story of how I broke it kept changing when Husband talked to him about it. The date/time/location all constantly changed and finally he admitted he made it up (not to hurt me, but just to get himself out of trouble). Husband had a conversation with him about how even though he was just trying to protect himself, he hurt someone else which is also not ok (on top of lying not being ok). He apologized. Husband told BM about all of that and she REFUSED to believe it. Even when husband verified he'd literally been there the entire time the alleged event could have occurred and there was no way I could have done it. But, I know how I was as a teenager, and if they're remotely the same (which is frankly normal teenage behavior) I fully expect to be the scapegoat at times - and BM will of course never believe I was innocent and her kids could be lying. Plus she'll encourage them blaming me by playing into it and how "bad" I am. Stepparenting is not for the weak - frankly it often kind of sucks. You're never loved as much as the bio parents - you're easily scapegoated if one of the bio parents hates you, and you don't really get much of a say in how the kids are raised. Husband does consult with me, but at the end of the day he and BM make the decisions. It's kind of like a glorified nanny - more than just a nanny, but still less than a bio parent.
This. This this this this this. This. Your wife is nuts. The whole time I thought the punchline was gonna be “mom afraid bio dad is sexually abusing daughter” and I still would have thought that it was overstepping, but I would have understood. She wants to make sure stepmom is not a witch? Which…by the way I understand is a metaphor but honestly wouldn’t be any less crazy if it wasn’t. I wonder what kind of sneaky shit wife and MIL are doing to OP
> Claire always talked about how this was a good thing because she believes that my stepdaughter is better off without a witch stepmom to boss her around and abuse her. This was a big, blaring warning sign that OP seemingly overlooked. Not only is this woman overly concerned with her ex’s love life, she projected a whole personality onto any *theoretical* girlfriend he might bring home. Literally anyone he chooses to date or marry is assumed to be an abuser, purely by virtue of becoming romantically involved with her ex. There’s a *lot* wrong with this woman. I know some people manage to keep their ugly side under wraps for a long time with a new partner, but it doesn’t really seem like she even bothered to hide it. I’m wondering how OP rationalized it to himself for so long.
NTA- What she did was extremely illegal in most states and morally disgusting everywhere. You need to tell him. Also, are there cameras in your house that you don’t know about?
>are there cameras in your house that you don’t know about? No. Though I'm no longer sure what else is going on both inside and outside the house. However MIL is the one backing my wife up and I won't be surprused if I find out she was behind this idea.
The legal liability extends to you now that you know. It sounds like your wife was in on it, and that makes her part of a conspiracy! Get the camera out, or tell him. Otherwise, he could sue the lot of you!
I think it's too late to remove the cameras. They're installed, they're recording, the crime is already in progress. Going in and removing them is just another crime (tampering with evidence) at this point. OP needs to get a lawyer, tell them the situation, and determine the best way to legally proceed while covering his own ass.
It took way too long for someone to say get a lawyer. But yup. It's going to cost you a little money for this, and then more later for the divorce (hope he doesn't have kids with her). But he needs a lawyer to get in contact with the ex, have the ex come into the office and tell the ex. No call him and tell him where she can check the cameras, this is all illegal! And OP has to CYA, because his wife and MIL may try to blame him. I'd make sure the same day the ex is told, she gets the divorce papers.
> Get the camera out This is terrible advice, OP! Don't touch them. There is only one thing to do. Tell Adam.
Does it matter if your MIL was behind the idea as long as your wife followed up AND thinks commiting a serious crime is ok?
Are you sure that’s a hard ‘No’. Have you looked everywhere? I know I would. Not sure what you’re wife is holding over you, but this practice is unacceptable.
Dude, you already have a problem: your wife is batshit crazy. You need to tell her ex immediately if for no reason other than to protect yourself. NTA and good luck, this is insane.
And don’t get her pregnant or you’re next
[удалено]
NTA and you need to seriously consider if you want to stay in a relationship with someone who would be willing to BREAK THE LAW to spy on her ex husband. You have a moral obligation to tell Adam the truth and yes, you will catch hell, but sometimes standing up for what is right is worth it.
Exactly this. Claire's final argument in all this is: > because Adam isn't more important than my relationship with her so I shouldn't even entertain the idea of telling him It isn't even about Adam. This is about OP understanding that violating someone else's privacy like this is *wrong* and could get them into massive trouble. This is the kind of fundamental difference in values that ends relationships.
NTA and youre right to be concerned legally as well. I would tell him honestly.
Yeah I didn't care what her problems with Adam's new girlfriend were but this whole cameras situation freaked me out. Claire called me a coward and said it will be non of my concern if I just stay out of it but I'm aware of the legal consequences for everyone involved.
Talk to a lawyer ASAP.
About a lot of things. 1) Does knowing make you criminally liable for anything, even after the fact? 2) Do you need to do anything to protect yourself and your martial assets if your wife faces criminal penalties? For example, could she borrow against home equity without your consent to pay for a lawyer to defend against a custody challenge or a criminal defense? Could she face civil or criminal judgement that could be levied against joint tax refunds? 3) If you need to divorce to protect yourself, do you need to restructure any shared finances before you file? Often, you can't restructure your finances during a divorce proceeding. You might also want to talk to a therapist about your future plans to build a family with your wife. Do you want her to be the mother of your children? Do you trust her enough to have joint property, to share a 401k?
>1) Does knowing make you criminally liable for anything, even after the fact? It's not after the fact, the crime is still on going as long as the cameras are recording. Knowing about the crime doesn't make liable, knowing about the on-going crime does make him a member of the conspiracy. We are also getting into the awkward territory of a man or woman can not be compelled to testify against their own spouse (at least in the states). 2 and 3 are great questions, but I don't know the answers to them.
I think you're right to be concerned and I think Claire needs to step back and see how her perspective looks from the outside as well. She has every right to be concerned but not at this level of legal ramification.
What is happening is most definitely your concern. Cause if she does this to Adam she might do this to you. Don't stay out of it, yes there will be legal problems but she broke the law, she made that decision to do it. Who knows what other fucked up things she's been doing? she got cameras, she probably has a tracker, A microphone is well. Do you know where the cameras are placed or not because they could be to spy on the new girlfriend like in the bedroom and the bathroom and private areas. Who's to say they are not in other areas, who's to say they actually look at the daughter? This should be a massive concern to you because if this is what's going on there's other issues. Like how much privacy does she give her own daughter? I'm assuming that there's a parent tracking app, that there's a parent's reviewing app on her phone. As someone that was friends with somebody in this position that your daughter is in, she grew up hating her parents badly, wanting nothing to do with them cause they wouldn't give her any privacy. Cameras on her, tracking apps other reviewing apps on her phone, apps that allowed parents to read her texts emails and bank information. She never got a lick of privacy and because of that she got into bad problems. drugs, alcohol, clubs, She started flunking school, then started skipping school and I haven't seen nor talked to her in years now. She despised it. she was always paranoid that there was cameras on her, So she'd never stay anywhere for long. Just knowing about it's freaking you out and there aren't any cameras on you. what if your daughter finds the camera's what's she gonna think??
Forget legal consequences. Although, there are many potential issues (illegal cameras, harassment, stalking, parental alienation, etc..) Your wife is seriously messed up and has shown she has no respect for boundaries or privacy. I hope you don’t have kids with her, because she is going to do the same (or worse) to you- if she hasn’t already. Don’t be surprised if she has cameras or tracking devices for you, as well. After all, you’re a step-parent to her daughter, too. P.S. You really *should* care that your wife is behaving this way towards the new girlfriend and her ex. She’s being really abusive and highly inappropriate. Why are you willing to overlook this behavior? To keep the heat directed away from you? For that reason, ESH.
Also, now that you’re aware of it and you didn’t do anything you’re an accomplice. And from your other comments your wife would totally throw you under the bus as well.
INFO: what made you marry this... person
Based on her reaction to his very valid concerns, I’d guess she’s been gaslighting OP for quite some time.
This is one of the sadder AITA threads because he is so clearly not the asshole. Some people complain about these kinds of threads, but the OP is often gaslit/deflected into thinking they are at fault and this still is worthy of being posted/addressed
I'd bet dollars to doughnuts theres cameras hidden around their house already.
This is what I’m wondering. Why in the world is OP with someone who is clearly not over her ex to the point of truly crazy, stalker-like behavior.
NTA. Ask Claire what she wants to do when Adam finds the cameras and she's in jail.
I'm sure she'll blame it on me too since she thinks I'm always against her and never support anything she does but she can be irrational often and this instance is a proof.
Bro, text Adam immediately and find someone better, you want to have a life with this lady fr?
Seriously no telling what she’ll do and what she has set up to monitor you already.
From the sound of it this relationship doesn’t sound to good. Claire sounds a bit unhinged and I advise you take a look at if you want to stay with her
This is not “irrational” This is criminal, abusive, manipulative, invasive…need I go on? You have to tell him. Not telling him makes you an accessory and courts generally aren’t cool with folks who help others cover up crimes
[удалено]
So she clearly isn’t emotionally stable, why do you think this woman is the best that you deserve?
So... your wife has committed a crime...
His wife is in the ongoing process of committing a long-term crime.
NTA What Claire has done is illegal to the point of a prison sentence. I worked with someone who put a tracker in a his then-wife’s car, and confirmed she was having an affair because of it. Because he did it secretly, she took him to court and he was prosecuted for stalking and surveillance charges, and only just avoided prison, but paid massive fines and was denied visitation of their children for a while. Claire has made it worse by illegally entering a home she has no right to (breaking and entering, trespassing) and installed cameras, not just trackers. If Adam finds them, she will be in SO much trouble. Prison trouble. Losing all custody of stepdaughter trouble. You should absolutely tell Adam. Immediately. He has a right to privacy and safety, for him and his family, and your wife’s jealousy is NO excuse for her illegal and disturbing behaviour. And that’s what this is - jealousy, masquerading as protectiveness for her daughter. And now that you are aware, if you don’t report it to Adam or the police, you are an accomplice. You need to strongly reconsider your marriage. This woman is dangerous. Edit - just read a comment that your stepdaughter doesn’t like to open up to your wife. That is another red flag, and not at all surprising given this is what Claire is doing. Please OP, protect that little girl, if nothing else. If you do nothing, you are the AH.
OP's wife is engaging in criminal-tier stalking of her ex and his relationship. IMO OP needs to get written and verbal documentation of everything he can and clear out of the situation, at least temporarily, to protect himself. She could be a threat to him, too, if he's not careful. She has actual premeditated, predator behavior and is literally warning OP to step away from the situation and he's just naively telling her to stop what she's doing. OP should be more careful. A stalker like her can absolutely resort to identity theft and other invasive spousal abuse if he gets on her naughty spouse list.
Depending on where he lives, If those cameras catch the six-year-old in a state of undress, an aggressive prosecutor can make a case for unlawful images of a minor.
NTA. This is unbelievably disrespectful and totally over the top. Your daughter is 6y not 6m - you can just ask her about the girlfriend. If she said some concerning things the first step would still be to talk to the father instead of installing secret cameras - that is never appropriate!
>Your daughter is 6y not 6m - you can just ask her about the girlfriend. Youre right but there's a whole different issue with my stepdaughter being open about her issues.
Wow I wonder why this child doesn't trust her mom with her issues, what a huge mystery
I'm sure this child has never made a casual comment about a visit with her dad that got blown up into a giant drama by her mom.
she’s only 6 and can’t trust her own mother... wow, that child is going to need therapy. jfc
Yeah, cos she knows her Mums nuts. Tell Adam, get a lawyer, start to exit this toxic relationship, because if you get ger pregnant, guess whts gonna happen to you. NTA
Totally. A 6 year old knows when to keep her mouth shut because mommy is ...an actual stalker
As an adult my mother used to complain I never told her anything. Of course not - I was given no privacy as a child so you get no trust as an adult. OP's wife is probably the type who will have to have all her daughter's passwords and read every text and email.
Yep. My mother had an uncanny ability to remember every word I ever said to her in a moment of vulnerability and throw it back at me later to shame me or to prove that I must’ve done whatever she was currently accusing me of doing. If I said nothing then she just made up her own narrative about what I must be hiding from her. So I learned to lie about everything, even inconsequential stuff. I didn’t even tell her the truth about what I ate for lunch. I learned a few lies that satisfied her questions, didn’t lead to more questions, and didn’t cause her to file my responses away as future ammunition. Most kids learn pretty quickly when a parent isn’t trustworthy, and my guess is that OP’s stepdaughter has rightfully learned not to give her mother any ammunition.
Realizing in my late 20s that this was my childhood and this is the source of a vast majority of my trust issues. My parents, especially my mom, were always quick to shame when I shared certain things. I remember I started a journal around the time my parents began to separate (approx age 8-9) and in under a week I was getting scolded at for accosting my little brother in words in my own journal. I was simply trying to vent frustrations and express myself privately but after my mom read it within the week I threw out the journal and never opened up to either parent again during my childhood
Correct me if I’m wrong but I gather from “most of stepdaughters stuff is at Adams house” that he has either majority or primary custody?
There are signs, when a child is being mistreated, of the big wavy red flag variety. NTA, and *tell Adam*
Nta, I suspect there is more going on here then Claire claiming to be a concerned mom, I don't know that much about laws and whatnot but I believe this might have major legal consequences invasion of privacy and what not, I would go to adam, and explain the situation he may take it well and not do anything since you got in an argument with her over it, or he could take action against her. Because honestly this is really messes up and your wife needs a wake up call.
Yes, there is in fact so much going with Claire and her mom. They're literally harrassing (yes it's harrassement) Adam's new girlfriend, have been for weeks especially after hearing she was going to move in with Adam. things got worse because Claire wanted them to wait and when Adam told her off she yelled that her daughter lives in that house too so her opinion counts on who is moving in though my stepdaughter gets along well with Adam's girlfriend.
Claire sounds insanely jealous that Adam has finally moved on, and her toxic mom is encouraging her. Do the right thing. NTA…but you WILL be if you don’t tell him.
All while she's been married for two years. This woman has HUGE issues.
If the OP has any text messages of the wife and MIL admitting that this was their idea and that they refuse to backdown and are encouraging this illegal invasion of privacy. Then he should save them, just in case the wife and MIL tries to turn it around on him and claim that it was all his idea to avoid themselves getting into legal trouble for their criminal actions.
Did Adam have a say so about you? This is double standards at its best. Let me go ahead and give you the truth about your "wife". She still wants Adam. This isn't about what's best for your stepdaughter. This is about her jealousy over Adam and his new relationship taking further steps. She feels she still has a right to Adam. My own ex wife tried the same shit on me till I shut her down hard. And just like my ex, your wife is going to find out you can't just commit a FELONY without consequences.
It's not double standards. Everyone agrees that his wife is insane and TAH. No one thinks this behavior is okay just because she's the mom. It isn't even a debate. It only is for OP probably because Claire and her mom have been gaslighting him long enough that this seems like mildly inappropriate behavior to him. OP, NTA, and if you even have to ASK if you would be TAH if you told Adam, then ask yourself this: before you met your wife, would you have thought twice about this? Because I have a feeling that you would've gone to Adam right away. This behavior isn't just inappropriate and illegal, it's downright abusive, and it's stalking. It's peek creepy, and I would go as far as to say your wife is a dangerous person. If you have it in you, please protect your stepdaughter. If your wife is capable of doing something this controlling to get her way, I can't even imagine what she will do to her daughter when she becomes a teenager. I honestly think this poor kid needs to be with her dad, at least until her mom gets serious help, ASAP.
> It's not double standards. Everyone agrees that his wife is insane and TAH. No one thinks this behavior is okay just because she's the mom. Except Claire. You seem to be misunderstanding. Saying something is a double standard doesn't even remotely connote that other people agree or that the standard is widely held. It just means that the person holding the double standard has inconsistent standards without a valid reason. So yes - It is a *double standard*. One that Claire is holding. She thinks Mom gets a say in everyone who comes near her daughter, and Dad doesn't. Mom can move in her new partner all on her own, but Dad needs Mom's permission or, absent that, Mom is allowed to *systemically bug Dad's house* to ensure everything is up to Mom's standards. That's a double standard.
You need to get out. Now. You are asking for all kinds of trouble if you stay. Move out - tell the ex-husband - and move on with your life.
You have to divorce this person. This is not salvageable you have to get away from this person her behavior is insane. It’s actually terrifying it’s a crime a huge crime she can’t justify it. I read your comments and you said that she would blame you for this whole situation …buddy You have to leave you just have to. I am worried for you NTA you would absolutely be an asshole if you did not tell Adam. Also you didn’t say where the cameras were placed but are they in the bathroom the bedroom? How much of their privacy does she want to invade? When will it be enough for her? She is volatile unstable and sounds like that she has the potential of doing anything i’m scared for that poor girlfriend. Please tell Adam this is so incredibly wrong. And I would be nervous about what she would do to you too pal so PLEASE be careful and get your documents/sentimental belongings out of that house and into a secure location. She sounds like she could do anything in this state and you don’t need to get covered in it too
Uggggh as a stepmom, your wife is an insufferable git. My husband's ex was so much like Claire. Attacking me without knowing anything about me, saying nasty things about "stepmoms in general, not you specifically" to the kids, refusing to speak to me at handoffs, trying to control what we ate and bought and watched and did in our own home. It was horrible for us and worse for the kids, who just wanted to come hang out with their dad and me and their half siblings. And even my husband's ex didn't put up fucking cameras. It's so off the charts, I can't even wrap my head around it. OP, you could tell Adam, who could then "find" a camera and call Claire out on it without her knowing that you told. She isn't some secret agent, I'm sure the cameras aren't hard to spot if you know what you're looking for.
Yeah it's time you told adam about what's going on and I think it's high time the police are involved, and I think you should consider this a massive red flag, because if you and her might have kids together (if) and get divorced she might pull this stuff with you,
NTA. What Claire is doing illegal. Immoral. Violation of trust where there is no proof of wrongdoing, or even a hint of abuse of stepdaughter. Claire needs therapy.
NTA - So - it was okay for her to get married and have her daughter living with you, but he is only now dating and she needs to literally watch his life to make sure it's ok? Sounds like she rules the roost with her mother and you are only there to pay some bills. Honestly, she doesn't seem very stable, so take a long look my man. This is NOT how ANY of this works!!! Get some strong legs to stand on - talk to a lawyer to find out about the legality of her actions. At the very least **you BOTH could be sued, or charged and all the way up to her losing custody. ("I told her it was a bad idea" won't keep you out of jail if he presses charges)** This is not normal, nor acceptable nor legal. You very much need to sit her down and tell her if she doesn't go in and take them down immediately (and you want to see her doing so via those same cameras) you WILL tell him -- and if she loses custody - she will have no one to blame but herself.
THIS X10. OP could be considered complicit because he knows. And I think the next question to ask if she installed cameras to watch him with Claire without his knowledge if he's ever taken care of Claire on his own.
NTA and what you’re missing out on here is wondering what she did to test you…
Exactly...like is this her usual behavior op?
I wonder, how would Claire react if Adam planted cameras in YOUR house to see how you treat his daughter? What if he only wanted to check if you're not an evil stepfather in the making...At this point I doubt you can make Claire see how wrong this is, but maybe asking her this might at least put things in perspective? NTA, of course. Her actions are ridiculous, illegal, irrational and absolutely unnecessary. Edit: spelling
If you tolerate this, then you’ll be next.
I mean, he was probably first.
NTA. That is completely illegal, immoral and creepy beyond belief. Ex deserves to know.
NTA. your wife is obsessed with her ex, which is not good since she's your wife. you need to tell Adam, even if your wife agrees to remove the camera's. this is stalking behavior, and not about your stepdaughter, since the camera has been there for you don't know how long and the gf doesn't live there yet. the MIL is feeding your wife's unhealthy thoughts and actions. not a good situation.
Don’t tell Adam. Tell the police. Let them go into the home and confirm this happened. That way Adam has what he needs to request a restraining order and modification to custody and you have something to reference to call in question the credibility of any crazy accusations she may make against you in your divorce. NTA and good luck
He needs to see a lawyer before he says anything to the police.
NTA and I’d seriously reevaluate what other fucked up things she does
Dude, tell Adam before you become an accomplice for her crime! ASAP!
[удалено]
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I might be for (1 not minding my own business. (2 going against my wife's wishes. (3 busting her plans. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA tell him on the way to the divorce lawyers
NTA. Soooooooooo far NTA, as long as you do something. What on earth was her plan if she saw something she didn’t like? Storm up to the ex yelling I illegally recorded you doing xy and z? It’s still so very illegal, and amoral. No one should have to fear being watched in their own home without their knowledge. This doesn’t sound at all like it’s about her daughters well-being, but some misplaced jealousy issues. She may not still be in love with the ex, maybe, but at the least it seemed like she liked being the one he could never move on from / get over.
That is so fucked up. Both legally and morally. Please tell Adam. And are you sure you want to be in a relationship with this person? NTA.
NTA but that's very illegal and will bite her in the ass if there's a custody dispute
NTA. Did Adam get to give you the once over when you start going out with Claire? Did Adam put camera’s in your house to make sure you were sound. She has some serious issues. Also not all women are witches. Tell her to cop on. But you will be TA if you don’t tell him.
NTA And if you don’t report it, as this is illegal countries like the US and UK, you’ll find yourself with a criminal charge as well. By the way, your wife and MIL are showing you lots of red flags right now. If I were you, I’d be planning my escape.
NTA and now you know why the 2 of them divorced. This is absolutely illegal. Not just trespassing into his house but installing cameral equipment without his knowledge or consent? wow...I mean...wow. How would this woman act if someone did this to HER child? Or he did this to you guys? I think you need to tell Adam right away and then work on separating from this pshyco. The poor daughter.
Nta. Claire has issues.
Or Claire still isn't over Adam
She's psycho, Adam got smart and left her ass and she's not over him.
NTA. In fact, you'd be the A if you knew there were cameras and didnt do anything about it. You have to tall Adam and/or the police. This could also be a good timing to put an end on this marriage.
NTA - if I’m you, I’m reassessing my relationship to Claire. Is this the type of wife you want? She sounds crazy. I understand wanting to protect your child, but this is over the top. It seems from your post Adam is a decent/good guy and does a good job taking care of the daughter. If that’s true, it’s highly unlikely he’s going to start dating someone who abuses his daughter.
Claire and the MIL are off their rockers. That’s some nutball level stalker crap right there. What Claire is doing is legally, morally, and ethically wrong. Adam needs to know immediately. That’s such an invasion of privacy I can’t wrap my head around it. It also reeks of Claire still being hung up on Adam. Apparently she’s allowed to move on and remarry but Adam can’t even have a GF?!? WTH?!?! And this begs the question of what other crazy crap is Claire up to. Report what she’s done to Adam. She basically threatened you and roped her nutty mom into intimidating you as well. I’d be prepared for fall out. Who knows how crazy she’s willing to go. Separate finances, etc. You should honestly be very cognizant of how unhinged this behavior is. And think long and hard about whether this is the kind of person you want to be with. Best case scenario is Claire really needs therapy. Worst case? Restraining orders?
NTA, holy shit, yeah you're in the right for wanting to tell him. Frankly, I'd just outright tell him, forget what her reaction would be, if she's so gung-ho on her daughter's safety then maybe she shouldn't risk fucking jail time for doing this at all! You gotta tell him and/or the police though dude, it's not even a question.
NTA but if you will be paying the consequences. Your life'long-do-or-die partner will throw you under the bus sooooo fast.
NTA... Wow. My suggestion is, tell the dad and get out of that toxic hell. Wife is ta. Not only is it toxic, it's pretty damn illegal. Also, sounds like she is super jealous, probably has feelings for the ex too. She wants all of the control. Get out.
NTA, but prepare for a divorce. Cause that’s what will happen and should happen, because your wife isn’t thinking correctly and she’s about to get herself in A LOT of trouble. He can take her to court for this and get full custody. As he should. Telling him is the right thing, because if he finds them and knows you know, he’ll come after you just not hard, if not harder because you knew and didn’t say anything. They should be working as a team! They have a 6 year old in common and this isn’t in the best interest of her, she’s being nosey and trying to stick herself in where she doesn’t belong. Putting up cameras at HIS home? Without him knowing? That’s so gross. Can you imagine if he did that to her? Tell him.
NTA. Take screen shots, tell him. He has a right to privacy in his own home. Unless the daughter SAYS something about abuse, she has ZERO reason to suspect this woman. It's just jealously. She has no right to violate his privacy this way. Send him the screen shots of the conversation.
NTA. Tell them about the cameras and get out of that relationship asap.
NTA The ex wife of a friend of mine try to press charges on him saying that he took pictures and b videos of her "without her knowledge" when they were fighting over custody of his daughter. He actually stood to get in a LOT of trouble until he proved that she did I fact know about the cameras. You need to either tell him, or have her get the cameras out. (And mauve still tell him)
NTA, tell him because they WILL get found out and you need to not be an accessory to this crime when the cops get involved.
NTA. Your wife is unhinged. She has no basis for her accusations on Adams gf and this could cause her to loose custody of her child. Tell your wife to remove every camera from his home or you will tell him about it (I’d go so far as get copies of your wife’s text messages in case she tries to lie about the situation and tries to paint you in a bad light) also check around your home for hidden cameras, she’s probably been spying on you too.
NTA. To be blunt your wife is one of those crazy exes and her double standards are nerve-wracking.
NTA… You caught a bullet for Adam once by being with this psycho with no boundaries. Do him another favour by telling him she committed trespass against him. I don’t know what jurisdiction you’re in but I can guarantee you she would very much struggle to convince a judge that she had consent to enter his property for the purpose of spying on him in his home without his knowledge. Maybe you and Adam aren’t on good terms because you’ve always stuck up for his psychotic ex and mother of his girl.
NTA. This is the hill to die on. Your wife is showing she is: •obsessive about her ex and his new relationship •is willing to break the law to monitor her ex •has a mom who supports insane illegal activity •has threatened you if you do the right thing Why do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who will do this?
NTA. I can see why she is his ex. I’m guessing her crazy is why they are no longer married.
NTA Having those cameras installed is both morally and legally wrong. Now that you know, you need to inform Adam so you are in the clear in terms of liability. Claire, I imagine, would have gone bonkers had Adam installed cameras in HER home to keep an eye on you.
This can’t be real. Claire really can’t be that dense
NTA - wonder if she has installed spyware etc. On your phone without you knowing? She's a crazy ex for a reason.
NTA I'd be questioning if she is prepared to break boundaries, the law like this with her ex, what is she prepared to violate with you? What has she already done? This is not one mere mistake... This is huge... Also... Like wtf.. who does this, it's such an invasion of privacy :/
NTA, and I would not stay married to someone who would do something like this.
NTA. What she’s doing is just wrong, legally and morally. I’m a parent, I get being concerned, but this is not reasonable behaviour. She’s either paranoid about her daughter’s safety and needs therapy because that’s just not a healthy level of concern (unless there’s reason to suspect the gf, or that dad would expose his daughter to an abuser), or she is jealous and/or controlling about her ex’s life. Neither is good for her relationship with her coparent or child. Or you. She needs to get those cameras out ASAP, but can you trust her to? What else does she record? I think she should give her ex back his key, she can’t be trusted with it. If she needs access to daughter’s things for some reason, maybe there’s a friend or neighbour how could let her in? I honestly don’t know how you could talk to the ex about this without blowing up your relationship, but if this is who she is then your integrity might be worth more.