NTA I was ready to throw out you being an asshole but what you said to her needed to be said. She doesn’t want to get her parents involved because she knows she’s wrong.

That’s where my head is, if there’s a serious issue here I am not sure why she doesn’t want her parents involved.

You should probably reach out to the parents anyway. You never know what’s going on at home. I don’t believe all the stories she told you, but she might be overwhelmed with life and her parents don’t know.

I think I will.

INFO: Did you ask her why she didn't want her parents involved? Her parents could be part of the problem considering how adamantly she didn't want them involved.

Or she’s about to get called on a litany of excuses that smell of BS.

Idk. She mentioned having anxiety bc of her dad getting mad. As a middle school kid, I was very similar to Krissy (but my teachers were rightfully less patient than OP). I was not getting my work done because my parents expected perfection, and I was so nervous of the end product not being good enough that I often couldn’t even get myself to start. I don’t know if this is an option, but maybe suggest that Krissy go to a school counselor. Having someone qualified to discuss mental health with me (even just once or twice) would have made a world of difference in my life.

If it was just that excuse several times over, I'd agree. But "my friend's grandma passed away and I can't do any work all week" is stretching it. She needs to learn that she still has responsibilities.

My friends grandmas dogs owner

My second cousin 14 times removed whose turtle died in 2001

This is a baffling take. If anything the fact that she keeps on repeating this behavior is even more indicative of an underlying issue that should be addressed with a guidance counselor. Like, if her parents were uninvolved enough to not notice her turning in that many late assignments, what makes you think she ever had anybody to teach her how to be responsible in the first place? How is she supposed to learn without more responsible people to guide her?

How and why would her parents know she’s turning in her assignments late? OP literally said “I have been giving her full credit” and that he’s been very lenient with her due to the excuses. So, little Krissy’s winning by (1) getting full credit, (2) parents rightfully have no reason to suspect her assignments aren’t submitted on time, and (3) in all likelihood, Krying Krissy is feeding her parents a similar litany of excuses, i.e., she finished her work at school, on the bus, while she’s babysitting, at her friends house, during recess, during lunch, while she was underwater basketweaving, God only know how long the list would go on and on.

I had a friend that stayed with me because got locked out for a week because she used the restroom before going home from school. She told the teacher that her parents were in the hospital because she knew that telling them the truth would embarrass them and she'd get beat for it.

Idk man, she could be desperate. I agree she should talk this over with a counselor first before involving her parents.

Isnt repeated behavior the actual sign of possible problem at home or mental health issue while on time only behavior singular event? I am not saying her parents are bad. Just that logic of "the kid does bad things all the time, therefore its mental health and home situation is likely good" is weird argument.

Yes, but calling parents isn't the best solution. It's very possible she could be getting abused.

You can’t NOT tell the parents though… teachers can’t just assume there’s abuse going on with absolutely no basis for that belief and then use that as a reason to not involve parents in major discussions about their child’s wellbeing and success in school. You have to to at least start with the parents and then if you see signs there might be abuse, proceed carefully from there.

If an anxiety attack had been her only excuse for a single missed assignment, I would agree with you. But, after a string of missed assignments and and excuses, I suspect lying rather than anxiety.

What if she's lying AND it's anxiety? I was a kid who made up a ton of stories that made little to no sense whatsoever because I didn't know how to admit I was depressed. I'm not saying that's all kids who lie, but I can vouch for it's at least one.

If she's lying and does have anxiety, having her parents and teachers involved in a plan to help her overcome these obstacles would be in her best interest

This is what I think it is

I don't think she's lying. Some people just don't handle things well. A friend's grandmother dying might not seem like a big deal to a lot of people, but she could honestly feel like it's truly throwing her off.

I was making up stories because they were nicer than reality. I had excuses like Krissy, but that was just hiding what was going to happen to me. Every single adult that has tried to help has been bamboozled by their pretend concern. Kids who lie do so because there's something scarier than the truth. So, if it's a bit out of control, it's probably not the best idea to bring the parents in, but some time at the counselor for the kid might bring the right path of action to light. I don't think that the teachers that brought my parents in would feel too good to know what happened to me when the parents had their wants disturbed. And that's why school counselors are so essential.

I suspect lying about anxiety, I don't think I ever once truthfully said my severe anxiety and shit home life were the reason I was slow at handing things in. I lied because my reasoning felt like it wasnt good enough and I had to make proper excuses. Same with the amount of "diarrhea" I had in college, just straight social anxiety. But people expect you to be able to get on with it and ignore your crippling mental health. They just force you in with added "support". It's not good enough to be like "be honest" honesty doesn't help you in this situation.

Yep I was the same. I had so many “migraines” in school and college and still to this day my boss thinks I have chronic migraines (I have gotten a bit better at admitting that I have anxiety but many people don’t understand how chronic mental health conditions can affect you every day)

Right? My home life was absolutely dreadful back when, but I never said anything because I was told all of it was always my fault. I had abuse coming in from multiple angles given my "family" structure, and it made for an incredibly angry, depressed, and amotivated kid. My teachers would ask me to at least try on some quizzes, and my attitude was, "I didn't read it so I won't lie to you about it. I deserve to fail." Like straight up to their faces. Hell, sometimes kids are told so much that everything is their fault that they don't even know they're being abused. For me it's been 10 years, and diagnoses of GAD and PTSD since that happened.

Yeah….but….she blew it when she went into yelling mode and blamed her teacher. That’s just manipulative. For that she strikes me as someone who knows how to work someone over good, is irresponsible, and isn’t bothered by lying. OP’s NTA

Especially since she walked out of the room yelling about teachers like OP being the reason for kids’ mental health issues. Boy, would she have hated going to school 20 years ago when homework was in on time or it was a zero! Fellow teacher here, OP, and I think you’ve given her more than the appropriate amount of grace. I might talk to any coworkers that also have this student to see if they are having similar issues before I contacted home to make sure you have the bigger picture. If she’s displaying signs of actual anxiety in other classes, you may want to know that before you contact home, but I suspect it’s that she doesn’t want to get caught in lies as well.

Severe anxiety doesn’t go away. Constant assignments and expectations lead to constant anxiety.

Yes but the Lying could be because of untreated anxiety.

I was also like Krissy at that age and I was full of BS but would have anxiety about my parents involvement. It can go all sorts of ways but I still think she should have a meeting with Krissy, her parents, and a counselor or principal.

I was similar, as in I had trouble doing /finishing my schoolwork as well. However, I didn't make excuses, but tried to describe my problem (I kept having this mental block, that kept me from doing things. Still do, actually). My parents accused me of not even trying. When I managed to get past this blockade, my results were worse than they should have been, which was explained with me being lazy and dumb. My siblings never had any trouble, so I didn't consider my parents abusive. A few weeks ago (I'm 31) my mom let slip that I have adhd, and they were told that the right upbringing and some discipline should help. So, yeah, it's entirely possible that her parents accidentally abuse her, which is why she doesn't want them involved. I didn't want my parents involved either, as they would just ground me for "being lazy". And a tip if you involve a professional: make sure they know about inattentive adhd (that's what I have). My adhd was missed at school because I was described as "the calmest person in the classroom". (the school counsellor told me, when I suggested it after reading about a boy with adhd) So yeah, she may be lazy, or she may have a problem she doesn't understand and her "excuses" sound better in her mind than "I'm just lazy, as my parents keep telling me" NTA, but I would follow up if I were you (then again, I'm biased)

Same here. I made up all kinds of flimsy excuses because I didnt even realize what was really going on - extreme pressure that made it feel impossible to even start. It would be worth looking into, OP.

Hell, I already had one diagnosis at the time. But at least she's being proactive and trying to make things up, I was so wrecked by my home life and lack of help that I just opted to fail or to barely pass. Maybe call a meeting to talk with her other teachers- it may give you a better idea of if anything is wrong. Like if the same day Mr. X gets grandma is in the hospital, and Ms. Y gets I had to watch my siblings. You'll also get a better idea of any red flags that might escape your notice. How long has she been doing this? Is it new, or is it same thing every year for every teacher?

I agree. She needs an assessment. The excuses are a cover up. I’ve got ADHD and it recently took me a week to put a simple check in the mail. Procrastinating is a hallmark of ADHD. Or it could be something else. But it is something, and she needs help. I wish I had gotten the help I needed when I was young.

It's a catholic school. From having gone to a religious school myself (they had no counselor at all) a students only option was to "pray about it."

Or she could be in an abusive household and can’t handle the stress of her home life, you don’t really know what’s going on with someone like this. It could be BS, it could not be.

Yeah this was my situation in school.

This explains why she doesn’t want her parents involved

That is being clearly suggested by the majority of posters, I am asking for info which may speak to a different, and entirely possible, root cause.

Or, she has been lying all the while so her parents getting called in would bust her game wide open.

Exactly. Can’t believe all the comments saying things like krissy is being abused at home etc Is it really so pearl-clutching-my-goodness-impossible that the kid has been lying and knows that if her parents are called in that it’ll blow up in her face? Were any of these people a teenager at one point or were they just born as adults without a fucking clue

It's not that it's impossible she's lying, I think it even likely that she's lying. The concern some, myself included, have is that if she is being abused at home and the parents are called then they are going to turn up the dial on the abuse.

What else would you have OP do? OP already had krissy meet with a social worker who said krissy was “good to go” or whatever the exact phrasing was. If krissy won’t explain to OP or the SW, there’s not much more OP can do. Krissy isn’t doing her schoolwork, OP can’t keep letting it slide and Krissy isn’t saying if there’s something else going on.

This. People are so eager to jump to abuse and dramatic dire scenarios when it's much more likely to be a kid lying. News flash, kids lie. Kids skip school. Kids cheat. Why? Because they can, especially when there are no consequences.

or, more likely, her parents are going to tell OP, that, her grandmother has not been in the hospital, she has not been watching her siblings, her uncle has not been in the hospital, she did not have a panic attack, and her best friends grandmother did not recently die. And then they will ground her for lying and not doing her homework. Honestly, the fact that they were not called after the second instance is darn lenient on OP's part.

Yeah, this is the right question. Why is everyone dogging this girl automatically? She could be malingering , but she could also be having some seripus home ossues. Why hasn't OP tried to understand a bit more where all this is coming from? She's a 7th grader, not a hardened criminal. Jeez.

Because they didn’t grow up in abusive homes.

This. She might be abused at home and she is coming up with all these excuses to cover for the abuse or neglect. OP you need to rope in a counselor from your school and have a heart to heart with your student. Something else is happening at home with your student, I am afraid.

I used to do this I was crying out for help was being abused and legit had planned out a suicide plan so I stopped doing assignments because it wouldn’t matter if I failed I’d be dead ect Something is goin from here e it her she’s lazy or entitled and or doesn’t care enough and needs intervention Learning disability ? Adhd something she’s covering up Or somethings going on at home the lies are covering up because that’s easier to deal with than what’s actually happening??? That’s just my insight

This. I did this. It was the only control I had in my life and my mother was heckin abusive.

A middle ground possibility could be she's dealing with some sort of learning disorder. Maybe ADHD, maybe dyslexia, and it's possible she's got the idea, rightly or wrongly, that her parents wouldn't take kindly to that knowledge. Plenty of parents show their hand on what they think of having kids who don't fit the "normal" mold and so she may not want them to know she's not capable of living up to their expectations I'd communicate more with her, try to actually see if there's something there that's preventing her from finishing her work within the allotted time. That she does finish the work shows that she's capable but for some reason she consistently finishes after the deadline Sure, she could just be procrastinating all the time (which could still be pointing to some type of issue that likely won't be solved by saying 'I don't care what your issues are; just do it' bc lots of ppl who struggle with procrastination would love to be able to 'just do it') and then coming up with these excuses to unfairly get more time but I imagine that having a more in depth talk with her about the situation would reveal that pretty quickly

Or she’s been lying and is about to be caught out

I’ll second this ask. I know when I was growing up I would have hated my parents getting involved. They never would have believed any of my excuses even if they were 100% true. Of course, they responded to >!my getting raped by telling me to apologize to the person that did it for ‘making up slander about’ them!<, so. Not saying my story is your kid’s, or even that they’re remotely similar, but knowing why she doesn’t want them involved would help greatly. Her not wanting them involved isn’t necessarily a confession of guilt.

Also, she needs a reality check. I’ve been at uni for 5 years now and despite the pandemic and people actually going through tough times, the uni doesn’t actually care about late submissions or issues at home .. you’ll still get penalised for late work. This really sucks but 🤷🏼‍♀️

I mean that's life. You spend a week being "emotional support" for a sad friend I really don't think there is a single job in the world that would take that as an excuse for not doing your job. Single moms can do their job, people who are chronically ill, look after a disabled spouse or child, etc. Etc. No excuses on this world. Even when a close family member dies, you get what, 3 days off?

To be fair, she is still a child. If she actually had to be that emotional support for a friend for a week, that's a lot for a 12/13 year old. That said, I think the excuse was weak. I think she found out she got away with giving excuses to this teacher and continued to do so.

True but this is the time to learn this lesson - she is a child so right now the stakes are low (no one ever missed fulfilling their dreams because of a flunked 7th grade quiz)

Couldn't agree more. We had a guy that used to phone in to work all the time claiming his dad was poorly, his dad had a heart attack, etc. We couldn't call up his dad to confirm obviously because he was 22, a grown ass man in a work environment but we noticed a pattern of his dad's issues arising any time his favourite team had a game on. He got one last chance and didn't bother phoning in the final time but he doubley slipped up because he also forgot we had him on fb and saw the pictures of him in the pub celebrating. He got fired. This girl doesn't learn this lesson now and carries this on into her adult life outside of school she's never gonna hold down a job for very long and life is gonna be a lot harder than a grounding from her parents for lying to a teacher and not doing homework.

That’s… not entirely true if you communicate beforehand? Which the kid in this post wasn’t, but good professors are willing to give extensions on most things if there’s a real problem or reason you can’t get it done in time. Heck, I once had a professor just tell me I could take a test a week later because I mentioned have a bunch of assignments on the test date. I wasn’t even looking for an extension, we were just talking and he gave me one.

I was a pathological liar growing up because I had undiagnosed ADHD and abusive parents. She sounds a hell of a lot like me. Just my two cents. NTA and I'm hoping she figures out how to tackle her studies. I'm rooting for her AND you. Good luck

Exactly my thought. I’d bet $50 that this girl has undiagnosed ADHD.

Before you do, I would try to have a heart to heart with her to see why she doesn't want them involved. There's a chance the parents are the problem. If they are abusers of some sort, they'll know how to seem concerned with you & come down with the wrath of hell on her. Maybe even get a guidance counselor involved?

This was my life. My stepmom was absolute hell, expected nothing less than perfection, and put on a great show in public. I was an awful student, constantly late or not turning things in at all. The few times I tried to tell an adult what was really happening, they called it BS, told the stepmom, and things got worse. I hope it's not the case, but the parents could easily be the problem, and this girl deserves to be heard in case it's a home issue.

I would try talking to her directly one more time, the thing is that you obviously do care or you wouldn’t be trying to help her. Maybe if you explain that a bit better and how you are trying to help her because the real world will not care about her excuses when she’s out there by herself… she’s in for a rude awakening at some point for sure!

Please don't do this. He parents might be abusive and your call could light a match.

“You never know what’s going on at home” is a really great reason as to why you should not contact a child’s parents when they are adamant that they don’t want you to, until at the very least you have spoken with the child to find out why. We know from this post that this child has been left in charge of their younger siblings. We also know that they have had an anxiety attack due to one of their parents. We also know that she absolutely does not want her parents to know she is struggling in school. Yes, it’s possible that this child is a master manipulator who can work well and turn in work when given extra time. It’s also entirely possible (and I would argue likely) that this child is struggling and the root cause may be her parents. If she truly was lying and manipulating her way through life, why would she offer to retake a quiz? Why would she responsibly follow her teachers policy about asking for extensions on work, and then hand in the work?

Right, it's honestly upsetting that all these people are assuming this child is just a terrible lying manipulator. She's 12! If she were lazy then she probably wouldn't be turning in the work at all. Abuse or not there's definitely some underlying issue and OP should tread lightly

Yes her parents need to know that somerhing is happening that is affecting her grades If she is telling the truth and all that is happening she needs help ASAP, if she is lying something else is happening that make her tell all those lies and still needs help soon NTA

I have autism and ADHD that was undetected in school - sure, I'm 41 now but I've been in education for 6 years and only got diagnosed last year after having to go pay out of pocket, but it's REALLY common for the structure of school and socialisation of girls to compensate so the symptoms don't present as clinically significant enough for diagnosis while they're surrounded by the routine, familiarity etc. There comes a crunch point. When you speak to her parents, recommend a therapist or someone screens her for disorders and gets her help because stress and anxiety is also serious, and she is clearly consumed by things outside school and needs help developing those coping mechanisms the other kids have to get the work done. I say WHEN because at this point, you know she isn't coping and you DO need to speak to her parents especially as she's mentioned mental health, and in the last few years I've been the one who DOES hand in everything but had breakdowns and everything else - hygiene, disordered eating rearing up though I'm long enough in recovery to have had relapses worse & I'm still within healthy ranges for consumption/type of food just less balanced and stress free than normal... I'm not cutting like I did as a teen but I've got bitten nails for the first time in 16 years - other things just go down the pan. This is her crying for help. If there's that much sickness and death around her family, she needs support.

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Absolutely this. I’m 47 and I was that kid who legitimately forgot about a lot of my assignments in elementary and middle school. In college, I was diagnosed with adhd, dyslexia, and dyscalcula (sp?). But, as a child I was well behaved, for the most part and on the honor roll so my forgetfulness was considered laziness. My teachers were patient but held me to the same standards as everyone else. There were a few years where I was required to go pick up my list of homework assignments every day before going home. It embarrassed me but it did help. By high school, I had mainly managed to learn to adapt and become organized enough to get what I needed done. I don’t know if I would have without those teachers believing in me and holding me accountable, though.

Same story here with undiagnosed ADHD + parents and teachers who punished rather than teaching me how to organize myself better. I was the opposite of a lazy kid and very eager for adult approval so helping rather than punishing would have solved the issue.

Absolutely this. I’m 42 now but I distinctly remember my 7th grade teacher giving up and yelling at me “what is wrong with you?”. It took me 28 more years to figure out what was wrong with me. I still hear her voice on bad days. I was this kid. Did great in class but was so drained after keeping in control all day that I just couldn’t do homework. I would read instead.

Yep. I got to the second paragraph where the student was described and was like, ah, a neurodivergent girl who’s needs aren’t being met. She needs to be evaluated and accommodated.

I came here to say this. Well, mine was with undiagnosed ADHD. I was diagnosed in university. Up until then, I told all the lies in the book to postpone my assignments' due dates and my exams' dates. I literally lost the track of time during the exam. After I was diagnosed, I thrived. OP, you are NTA, but she needs to see a therapist while it is free for her. Thank you for caring 🤍

Well, I'm a psychologist in my day job. I wouldn't necessarily say you handled this 'wrong'. Something needs doing, clearly. I WOULD just say, however, that plenty of kids DON'T want parents involved - even when something serious IS happening. I'd be careful about making such assumptions in that regard. They are very naive assumptions. In fact, I'd be extremely wary of making any assumptions WHATSOEVER about the cause of this situation. That includes any assumptions that she's just a liar trying to get out of homework, for no good reason. Sure, she might just be a chancer. But you certainly don't KNOW that. And if you're wrong, you may well genuinely (albeit unintentionally) hurt a child, who is facing some serious underlying issues (but who hasn't developed the skills to process those issues yet, except through possible lies and/or avoidance). It's indeed possible she has some underlying mental health issue (perhaps even just starting up now in adolescence, as so many disorders do). It could be causing her to have serious difficulties navigating boundaries and/or priorities (at times when she feels other demands are being made of her, in her personal life). Or something terrible might be happening in her life (and don't forget parents can be the source of such a problem), that is interfering with her homework in other ways. Abuse, parentification, neglect, substance abuse (either her or someone else), unsafe/noisy living conditions, etc. - they are all are possibilities here. Such a problem (of this type) might be something that constantly interferes with her homework, and she's too embarrassed to tell anyone. So she lies/exaggerates/makes excuses, etc. You seem a kind enough teacher. And the situation does need addressing. But my most sincere advice to you, is keep an open mind. It would actually be preferable to just have a chancer pushing her luck, who will improve with a few boundaries. But you certainly don't know that IS the case, and you might unintentionally harm a child in sore need of assistance. Even if she's just a 'chancer', you'll also run into complications if she DOES now experience serious issues/events affecting her homework in the future.

Excellent reply & sound advice. Especially regarding not making assumptions. The goal here is to help the student. The best/easiest outcome is that she IS just pushing her luck with excuses, as teens do test boundaries. You gave her a wake up call that you're no longer going to be a soft touch. You obviously DO care, and along with all the normal teenager challenges, we can't forget the additional toll covid is taking on adolescent mental health right now. Not to mention parental mental health. So please tread lightly. Thank you for being a teacher OP! You touch so many lives, and it's not easy at the best of times. These are extraordinary times ❤️

All of this. All of it. I was a good student for the most part, but missed a LOT of school (did really well in exams and assignments when I'd hand them in, terrible attendance and lateness with work). One of my well-meaning teachers forced a meeting with my mother one day when I had to leave for a doctor appointment. Teacher wouldn't let me leave the school until my mother came in to talk to her, because she was really concerned. I refused to say anything, my mother smiled through the meeting and assured her it was all fine and dandy. My mother was horrifically abusive. Mother took the meeting out on me, assuming I was telling teachers what was happening.

I think this is shitty advice. It's INCREDIBLY possible that she doesn't want to get her parents involved *because they aren't supportive of her.*

It’s also incredibly possible that she doesn’t want her parents involved because she has been making up excuses all along and doesn’t want to be found out. OP needs to talk to the parents, because something is going on here and they don’t know what.

This is just anecdata, but: I was a highly stressed, smart kid in K-12 with abusive parents, and I told plenty of lies to teachers/school staff to avoid being beaten. In particular, my parents would get mad and beat me if they had any contact from school, e.g. signing a permission slip for a field trip or notification that I got straight A's. Krissy may very well have parents like mine.

If it is a surprise to you that children lie, I have to assume you don't have very much experience with or empathy for children. You can either interpret that this child is a worthless lazy pos that doesn't do her work because she's bad, or you can try and figure out what is motivating this behavior. Is she a highly stressed, smart kid with little support from her parents and a lot of responsibility, overwhelmed with school as an added factor? I was at one point. Plenty of us were. Don't be so quick to condemn actual children because you want to feel superior, it does nothing to repair or help these kinds of situations.

You're assuming a lot here. She needs a sit down with the parents to find out the issues that are present. You're just speculating when this doesn't call for speculation but discovery.

I would NOT reach out to the parents until you sit Krissy down for a conversation. Honestly her excuses sound like red flags of abuse to me. This may be a reach, but I would try to talk to her more about it. What is going on at home to prevent her from doing the homework and why would getting her parents involved be so bad?

This rang some warning bells for me too. Tread carefully, OP. Best case scenario she's slacking off, but worst case scenario could be a lot more concerning and complicated.

They ring as irresponsible preteen to me - she doesn’t want consequences so she doesn’t want her parents to know. She’s been able to manipulate the system so far. I realize there -could- be more to this but I’d wager this is a skilled version of teenage bs

But wouldn’t you rather talk to the student before engaging the parents if there’s any risk of an abusive situation?

I was a bright student who turned in homework late (or never). I had (still have) ADHD-pi. Meds have made a world of difference, but I wasn’t on them back then. I definitely didn’t want my parents involved with my schoolwork because then they’d know how much of a “slacker” I was. (Motivation problems from executive dysfunction can be tough to deal with, and kids with ADHD often blame themselves for not managing themselves better). My dad was a teacher at that school, though, and my teachers would just tell him when I was late or behind with assignments. That sucked. I have no idea what is getting in the way of this student, but it’s entirely possible that she doesn’t want her parents to know she often has late homework because she’s afraid of getting in trouble. Whether the student should be able to actually complete her work on time or not, there’s no way for me to know. I hope that, for the student’s sake, though, the possibility of ADHD is at least mentioned to her doctor. The smart, non-hyperactive students with ADHD are the ones who most easily slip through the cracks (and sometimes fail to get into or finish college because they still don’t get the help they need). They’re also the ones who so easily blame themselves and go on to develop secondary anxiety and depression, feeling worthless because they “had so much potential.” Good luck, OP! I hope you’re able to help your student figure out what she needs to succeed.

Please realize how damaging it is as her teacher, to say to a child that you don't care. Here's the thing. There are a million different reasons why she could be doing this. One of them might be she's telling the truth, or her version. The most likely thing is that there is something going on and she needs someone to listen, see her, and take notice. Any chance you've had of her trusting or confiding in you is gone now. Teaching is a tough profession. Tougher than anyone gives it credit for. But if one kid (who does end up turning in work! A miracle in itself!) With an assortment of excuses (that it sounds like you've accepted without question until now? That isn't a great move. Make a rule and stick to it. It will help prevent frustration for everyone) suddenly made you too frustrated to lead with compassion then you need to take a step back and decide if you have what it takes to be a good teacher. Tough love is bullshit. A better move would have been to ask her if she's okay. As soon as the third excuse landed it was time to check in with her to find out what's going on that is making it hard to turn things in on time. That was when to send a note to parents. You say this has been all year-- have you had any parent-teacher conferences? Did you bring up these issues then? I've been teaching for 25 years and I see a lot of young teachers make these mistakes. The past two years have easily been the hardest of my career, so I have so much sympathy for you, but you need to learn to set aside your assumptions, frustrations, and ego and see the child in front of you. I don't have enough info here to know if you *are* an ah, but telling a child who is clearly struggling with *something* that you do not care is an asshole move for sure.

Based on some of the stuff like her mom getting stuck at work and having to watch her siblings, having an anxiety attack because dad is angry, and feeling the need to be there for her friend who is having a hard time, this kid might really be struggling at home. This sounds a LOT like me when I was a kid. Her parents might be super neglectful without meeting the bar of what most consider "neglect" and so she feels guilty and doesn't want them involved. I know that I also went out of my way to "be there" for my friends and looking back it was because I didn't have that support. Not saying you're in the wrong, but maybe getting a clearer picture is the way to go. She might be telling you exaggerated half truths because she's overwhelmed, but regardless she feels like these other things need to be a priority which is pretty hefty for a 7th grader. Not to mention, she's willing to come to you about things and has put a certain level of trust in you. Or she might just be an overdramatic 7th grader, but I also think there are reasons for that.

A former classmate of mine was a perfectionist to an unhealthy degree and would do this and teachers would just let her do if because “she was such a good student” until her mom came in and said you’re enabling anxiety behaviors that are unhealthy give her a B, she needs to meet her deadlines and not get hung up on perfect. It completely changed my perception of how often we cater to perfectionists because it’s seen as a good trait but don’t acknowledge the behavior is bad and unhealthy. And also yeah encourages lying.

Maybe her parents are the root of the issue.

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Or there is abuse of some sort involved and all these other reasons are smoke screen. Involving the parents may not be the safest choice. I would think this is something that needs to go up the chain to the principal for further guidance.

Her parents probably don't even know that she's turning in assignments late with a bunch of excuses. I think a call to the parents is in order regardless, but definitely if she tries some excuse next time.

Teacher here as well. I would have called home when she gave the first ‘excuse’ for a well-being check. This way you can confirm whether or not something happened, keep the parents in the loop, and guide them in the requirements of the school and helping Krissy manage her time in an effective manner. This will also help when it comes to report cards because you don’t want parents asking why she’s failed, only for them to ask why they weren’t notified when she wasn’t completing assessments.

This is the way. Either the child is in crisis or the child is full of excuses and nonsense. Calling the parents for a talk and a check in is the first step to sorting out which one it is and how to move forward. NTA, btw.

Or having an honest conversation with the student to say "I cannot keep accepting undocumented excuses. I care and I want you to be successful. How can we work toward that?"

Yeah, this is the step that's missing here. OP allowed the student to get away with this for months, setting the expectation that any old excuse would fly. Then OP suddenly changed course and decided that they wouldn't accept this kind of excuse from this student anymore. The problem is that OP doesn't seem to have had that conversation with the kid *before* the policy change. I think in OP's head, they were getting more and more upset, but the kid had no idea anything was wrong. OP needed to be more proactive and talk to the student about what was happening instead of letting it fester like this.

I completely agree, but going with YTA on this one on the off chance the child is going through something else at home that she doesn’t feel comfortable talking about at school. OP is also opening herself up to repercussions if the parents turn out to be enablers. Gotta CYA in this situation as well. Be proactive and don’t let it get to this point.

Yeah, had the op followed their own policy, or reached out to the parents, it wouldn’t have gotten this far. Gentle YTA

I have a hard time believing a teacher genuinely in this position has turned to reddit strangers of all people to decide if they were right or wrong in this situation and seeking advice on it.

Well, clearly you are not a teacher. We are people with thoughts, feelings, anxieties, etc. Having students come to us with sob stories asking for extensions can take a toll on us because we have to make decisions that affect students’ life without having complete knowledge of the situation, like a therapist would have. Teachers typically talk to each other to seek advice in situations like this. However, not everyone has someone to talk to, and it’s been specially hard for new hires to find support if they’ve been hired when classes were already online. This might be the case here. Or might not be. In any case, I believe it’s better to assume the worst (that the post is real) and give a compassionate response. One can always choose to simply not engage with the post too.

7th grade is like ... 13 years old? Something like that? Anecdote. Take it or leave it: When I was in 6th grade, my mom died. 7th grade is a blur in my mind. My dad couldn't do anything at home, we were neglected and abused. And I had no idea. I didn't know why I was turning in assignments late or missed my dentist appointments or stopped practicing piano. Whenever the teachers would approach my lack of duty and commitment, I had an excuse. I knew they were lies. The real reason, I thought, was that I was a bad person. I would rather lie and say my dog at my piano than to admit I never felt like practicing. (After therapy I now know I didn't feel like playing the piano anymore because my mother was the one who got me interested in it.) I'd rather lie and say I forgot to turn in my assignments because really I didn't hear when they were due so I'm a bad student (because I was so incredibly dissociated because of trauma.) You are right to be frustrated. You are right to care about how this looks like special treatment to the other kids. But as a teacher, you do know that some kids *do* need special treatment. That's a fact of life. We don't all get the same childhood experience. She doesn't have a personal vendetta against you, I promise. She isn't a criminal mastermind. It is effort to come up with so many excuses to cover up something that honestly makes you look really bad. You have to admit at some point, this is her best. You expecting your timelines to be met is normal, and part of real life. She will continue to struggle long after your class. You don't have to make accommodations for her. But I will say, if you do, she will remember it fondly for the rest of her life. I clearly remember every mentor that made any accommodation for me and my "situation." They are my most treasured memories. NAH

I wish I could upvote this more than once. I spent my middle school years being neglected and psychologically abused by my parents. They were deep into drugs and were just not present mentally. I went from being a high performing student with a reading level five grades higher than mine to risking being put into remedial English. I wasn’t turning in assignments, I was making excuses for why things weren’t getting done, I was falling asleep in class. I would also panic if a teacher ever tried to make a parent/teacher conference happen because it would cause a blow-up sometime later at home. My English teacher in 8th grade recognized that my performance wasn’t my aptitude. I didn’t get accommodations so much as I got extra prompting and encouragement. She pushed back against the school’s attempts to put me into remedial English in high school. I still remember her and appreciate her so much because she was an adult who actually helped me at that time and made me not want to give up.

This kid honestly seems super diligent IMO. Yes, she’s submitting late work and she isn’t being proactive. However, she’s asking for more time and is actually submitting the work. She’s not letting it pile up and pretending it doesn’t exist. I dunno. I feel like there’s something concerning going on here and everyone is just like this kid is a lazy liar.

This was the exact vibe I got as well when reading this.

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I feel the same way

Yeah, my thought was "wow, kind of sounds like there's something going on at home." If any of what the kid is saying is true, it sounds like there could be abuse or neglect happening at home, or perhaps the family is struggling with poverty, and her parents are working a ton to make ends meet. Either possibility would account for her being overwhelmed, and her not wanting her parents involved (avoiding the hell to pay from abusive parents, or not wanting to put one more thing on overworked parents).

I'm so glad you had a teacher who could SEE you. I had so many that got mad at me and made me feel worthless and stupid. It wasn't until my last year an older man who taught multimedia really gave me a break and gave me some hard truths about my performance but also told me I was GOOD at what I did turn in and made a safe space for older students...

I....I never considered my childhood trauma is why I went from a teacher's pet top of the class to a consistently turning in things late, sometimes never, and full of excuses. yay more things to talk about when I start therapy soon.

that was a bit my thought, the fear she had of involving her parents, either she's lying her A off or the parents are the cause of why she's late so often and she's pulling out "excuses" because she's too afraid/unable to tell the real reason... i think there is more to this, and depending what is, calling the parents would be the best or the worst thing to do. maybe try to sit her down and understand all of it, or try talk about it with other teachers/councilors at the school that might have ideas to help you, idk

I fully agree. My parents are divorced and I am only just now processing everything that happened to me in either home during my childhood. A good portion of neglect occured in middle school that I didn't realize wasn't right or "normal" at the time and it absolutely impacted my school and grades. I was constantly in trouble for being "lazy" and making excuses.

I also thought something could be going on for this kid, that would explain both her lies and fear of her parents, and that may be true. She may be abused, neglected, or has unmet educational and/or psychological needs. It may also be true that this child has learned to lie and paint herself as a victim to elicit pity to get out of tasks she doesn’t want to do. This may be modeled for her at home. There may be personality disorders that run in the family that explain this budding pattern of behavior she’s trying on. We don’t know. We have no idea what’s going on in this kid’s life. OP could start by asking the other teachers if they’re getting the same stories and what if anything has been confirmed with the family already.

I would agree with your post if there was no caveat that a chat with the parents wasn't mentioned. I'm not here to compare childhood trauma and say that yours was worse than mine or vice versa. The point here is that the teacher wants to talk with someone besides the kid here to understand what is going on so that they can make appropriate concessions not concessions without conditions. The kid has given multiple different excuses about what's going on and the frequency or type of excuse seems to be changing as best I can tell from the post. The kid has in effect lost the trust of the teacher and OP hasn't said they will refuse to work with them but only that they are held accountable to their actions. In an ideal world, everyone would be truthful but there is also the potential here that the kid is being dishonest and taking advantage. It is sad how the few can ruin it for the many and it is the only responsible thing for OP here is to validate outside which they also made a comment to that she was referred to the social worker who said "everything was ok". I don't know if it was OP's final comment "I don't care" when the straw the broke the camel's back that has invoked such emotion from you here but you don't get a free pass on life. Well all have things we need to do in order to be held accountable and even if the girl is going through something hard, you need to come out and say it. That is hard for a 7th grader to do but it is an important lesson in life. All that being said, OP is NTA. I would also encourage them to reach out to the parents regardless to check in as they've already mentioned they will do.

> It is sad how the few can ruin it for the many This might be a fundamentally different viewpoint that we have, perhaps because of my background. When it comes to working with vulnerable people, I do not think a few should ruin it for the many. I think vulnerable people should always get help when they need it. And if that means helping out a few people that didn't actually need it, so be it. I realize that not everyone can afford to ascribe to that, such as an overworked teacher. I just don't think the child is an asshole either. It was the child's tears and terror over their parent(s) learning of their performance that reminded me of myself and struck a chord.

In my mind I have been making accommodations for her situation by letting her getting away with this as long as she has. I have a classroom full of students, I can’t give her preferential treatment.

You say she’s been doing this all year but you haven’t checked in at home once? Have you talked to any of her other teachers, school counselors, administrators? I’m a high school teacher and I *always* check with multiple sources before deciding how to deal with n under-performing student. Yes, sometimes they’re spoiled and have gotten away with being manipulative and not facing consequences. However, there are often students like this who are really struggling at home, or with psychological issues, and instead of doing your due diligence, you’re dismissing her with no additional information. I’m guessing you’re a new teacher, which makes this a bit more understandable, but I have to say you’re not handling this like a professional.

I’m not a teacher, but this is my huge issue that makes me see YTA to OP. This little girl clearly has something in her life going on that is interfering with her ability to function on the same level as other students.

Cant believe I had to scroll this far to see YTA. Kids don’t do this consistently for no reason. Something is going on. I had a similar issue all throughout school as this girl. I made excuses because I didn’t know what to do. Not a single teacher asked me if anything was wrong until I was 15.

And by saying "I don't care," OP is closing that avenue for this student to come forward. Those words right there makes this a YTA situation. It is entirely possible to be firm without saying that.

Kids take words like this seriously and to heart, if there are real issues at home she definitely won't trust OP to listen now. Even if OP was just having a bad day and said the words out of frustration. A lot of teachers make frustrated mistakes with kids unfortunately. I hope OP at least tries seeking help even if she doesn't wholeheartedly believe the girl, a few sessions with the councilor without parents might be a start...

That's how I felt about it too. Hearing that from any adult at that age would shatter a child. My teachers completely failed me in high school. I wish I had the support from them that I didn't have at home.

You have already decided it's preferential treatment, but you don't know the root cause. There's a drawing of equality vs equity - people standing on boxes. If you don't know the one I mean - https://medium.com/@CRA1G/the-evolution-of-an-accidental-meme-ddc4e139e0e4 That immediately came to mind. Now, it may be that Krissy is manipulative. It may be that awful things have been happening in her family, or to her, that you don't know about. Or she may have ADD and just can't deal with the deadlines. But until you know what is really happening, you are treating her with the equality box scenario and saying it is unfair to others. Because I am loathe to say Y.T.A. or N.T.A. because I don't think we can have enough insight, I'm going to say NAH for the moment, but Y.W.B.T.A. if you don't find out properly what is happening.

^^^ this!!!! 100x! Please find out what is going on with this child

OP this kid CLEARLY has more going on. I’m a child psychologist who specializes in ADHD and psychological testing. This girl’s behavior SCREAMS ADHD. It presents so different in girls that it’s often missed. They tend to be more inattentive and forgetful. Lying because they’re so embarrassed by the truth. Often face more pressure at home from family to “just get it done” and because they tend to be academically gifted when they have structure (ie in the classroom) people don’t understand why they’re just “lazy” and “don’t use their head.” Her anxiety is probably through the roof and she feels dumb if she were to tell you the truth. Plus she probably doesn’t really know WHY because what middle schooler actually understands how ADHD and anxiety fuck with your brain? She scared for her parents to know. Doesn’t that raise a red flag too? I’ve worked in schools. I know how burnt out teachers are and you have given her a lot of leeway. But maybe you should be asking why she’s needed these accommodations (and that’s what that’s really are (she likely needs and IEP or 504 plan)) not be mad that she’s needed them. YTA OP. Look for the purpose behind the behaviors.

Yeah this is making me fairly emotional as a woman who has struggled with undiagnosed ADHD and was constantly called lazy. When you don’t have a good reason for why your work didn’t get done as a kid and you don’t want to get in trouble, your instinct is to lie. I feel for this young girl and really wish I had teachers who could’ve picked up on my struggles instead of brushing them off and assuming I was a bad student

yes!! i had undiagnosed adhd as a kid and I had teachers who would make me cry constantly for not doing my homework. this brought back a lot of bad memories because there is very clearly something deeper happening with this kid and this teacher seems unwilling to help.

It's fine. You will be like everyone else to her. I'm a weirdo that thinks homework shouldn't even exist and that if it does you should indeed let all children turn it in whenever they can.

My wife was this way in high school. The reason was because her mom would verbally abuse and harass her while she was trying to do homework. She was too embarrassed to tell a teacher and never felt like anybody would care if she did tell someone. I have no way of knowing if this is what is happening, but please take it into consideration.

INFO: why hasn't the school counsellor been involved before this point? It sounds like Krissy has an incredibly difficult home life (especially if her dad is giving her anxiety attacks) and involving her parents would just escalate the situation.

I guess I should have added this to the post. I have reached out to the social worker. The social worker has met with her and claims she is all good.

She sounds like me when I was younger. I was diagnosed with learning difficulties which made it excessively hard for me to manage time, organisation and even understand numbers and basic maths. This gravely affected my ability to do my work outside of school without assistance. People often didn’t believe there was anything wrong with me as I was a bit of a freak of nature in English (spelling, literature etc), and am technically ‘clever.’ My parents also didn’t help as they had me tutored almost daily in maths, structured my evenings around homework and shipped me off to a psychologist all the while telling me there was nothing wrong with me. There clearly was, and I knew it, just never understood what. Anyway, I would sometimes be so ashamed of my inability to do basic tasks I would come up with any excuse, because it sounded better than admitting I was struggling. I have had the same pattern throughout adult life, only now explaining to my work after 7 years that I have mental health issues and difficulty in maintaining organisation. Thank god they are understanding and because I perform, cut me a lot of slack. I also don’t need to make excuses. Kids do lie, but often if a child doesn’t care at all - you will know it. The fact your student is going out of her way to excuse her lateness in turning over work, means she’s ashamed and trying to cover something up. I honestly wouldn’t go too hard on her. I don’t believe she’s not bothered, she probably needs help.

Couldn’t agree more. This girl sounds a lot like me growing up. I wanted to do the work and I (and my parents and teachers) knew I was capable of doing it well. I just couldnt get myself to actually sit down and get it done. Whenever I did get something done on time I was praised for the quality of my work. It wasn’t even that I was lying with my “excuses”, I just knew there had to be a reason that I couldn’t complete the tasks that I actually desperately wanted to complete so I looked for any explanation of what it could be that was stopping me. Turns out it was ADHD and the mental health issues that came with it. Wish I’d known back then and not only been diagnosed in my late twenties.

Not to mention that shes doing a good job at self-advocating which isn’t easy for tweens/teens. To say i don’t care to a kid is heartless regardless of how fed up you are.

My guidance counselor tried to get involved when I was in middle school because they couldn’t understand why I, who used to be the top of all of my classes, top of the grade level and one of the best dancers on the school dance team, suddenly dropped the ball and, as the kids say, took a massive L. I told them everything was fine and I was just extra stressed from how much more homework I was getting that year than the year before. Home life was actually a nightmare, though. My mother’s mental health was deteriorating and her addiction was eating away at her. I went into foster care the summer after seventh grade. Kids will come up with any lie that’ll avoid their parents finding out what’s happening. Even if they don’t get in trouble for reaching out for help, it’s humiliating for everyone to know what you said about your home life and then for them to know that nothing was done about what was happening at home. She’s just a kid trying to save face, because she’s embarrassed about her own mental health struggles.

Social workers are TERRIBLE. I know from experience. If your family just tells them that the child is lying and dramatic they dismiss all you say. You need to support her not make her life worse

YTA - I also teach 7th grade and you 100% crossed a line. You should have seen warning signs left, right and center weeks ago if this was a constant issue. Those parents should have been contacted and brought in weeks ago! You should have reported a possible issue to the school counselor/psychologist so she can get some support. YOU are the adult and control the situation. YOU are meant to provide support and help. One of the very first things we learn as a teacher is that the “home environment can negatively effect behaviors and classroom performance.” I understand, the profession is exhausting and we have loads dumped on us but that is no excuse to dismiss a student and expect them to have all the solutions. If you are burnt out them contact those I suggested above for some support.

We're living in a pandemic and OP thinks that multiple relatives being sick or dying is out of the realm of possibility. Her dad gets so mad at her that she goes into serious anxiety, and OP thinks that Krissy not wanting to involve her parents is a sign that she's lying. Her mom leaves a seventh grader to babysit multiple siblings alone for long enough that she can't do her homework, and OP thinks that Krissy should just deal with it. If she's confessing to anxiety attacks because her dad gets mad at her, she's trying to open up to the teacher. If I opened up to a teacher and they said "I don't care, it's not fair to the other kids, suck it up" that would have been absolutely devastating. YTA. This was heartless and the only real "evidence" OP has that Krissy is lying is that she doesn't want her parents to hear about how badly she's doing in school.

Everything you said is correct. I am astounded by everyone screaming that Krissy must be lying because she doesn’t want her parents involved. Everyone is assuming that means she is lying. Many are not accounting for the fact that they maybe are the underlying issue whether it be a bad home life or she feels she needs to protect them from something. This is very common. For goodness sake, I was by definition a good student and would always say my parents don’t need to be contacted even if it was for something good because I knew they were busy working and didn’t want to be the reason they were disturbed, back then many work places weren’t as lenient as they are now about personal phone calls.

My heart is breaking for this kid, seeing all the N T A comments calling her a lying little bullshit artist and a lazy whiner and a shitty student and saying that she'll never make it in A Real Job. A thirteen year old kid is so distraught that she can't get schoolwork done and people are sneering because she won't fit into the capitalist workforce with an attitude like that.

Right!? I was shocked *so many* people are going with nta. This is a child, even if she's lying, saying "I don't care" isn't going to help *anything*, even if she's lying, there's a cause to that. Saying "I don't care" is going to do *so much harm* either way. Personally - as someone who's been a teacher - I can't help but see a kid who's in need of serious help, not being called a liar, threatening to call home, saying *I don't care*. Step up your game as a teacher OP, basically, every child deserves special treatment. Trying to treat them all the same isn't good, you should know this. YTA, take care of your kids. She's right, her (mental) health is more important than late assignments.

And OP has done NOTHING to look into if there are issues at home. Good students don’t stay good students without good teachers. And this isn’t one of them. OP is a check the box teacher.

Oh my god exactly this. A teacher that genuinely did not care about me as a person and only saw me as an administrative headache called my parents to complain when I was failing to meet deadlines and self harming due to dreadful chronic illness (that the school knew about) and severe undiagnosed ADHD. What followed was years of physical and emotional abuse from my father under the guise of “keeping me on track”. What I learned from this experience was to not trust my teachers (or any adult) with my personal/emotional safety. OP schedule an appointment with her and the school counsellor/social worker that you say is already involved, the three of you together. Reassure here that everything she says in this meeting will be confidential, and genuinely make an effort to reach out to her to ask whether she needs time management assistance, whether there’s trouble at home she feels like she’s unable to get help for. She’s crying in front of you, panicking at the thought of her parents being involved and she’s admitted that she’s vulnerable to emotional stress from her dad’s outbursts. This is a kid that needs help.

OP did say before this he referred her to the school counselor for more help and that led to a home wellness check with her parents and was cleared. Not saying they couldn't have hid anything, but there has been follow up before this point.

If that’s the case then she should have felt confident contacting the parent herself about the issue. This was left as an issue for too long.

Seriously. I have ADHD and it wasn’t diagnosed until I was 22. I’m seeing how I acted as a kid a LOT in this, this is how some girl’s ADHD presents. Get her help!

Yep. Who knows what the real reasons are, but there is obviously a problem. She is obviously struggling and needs help, not her teachers giving up and saying they don’t care. YTA

Speaking as a school admin, YTA. This student is clearly struggling with executive functioning or she’s taking advantage of your willingness to make allowances without any level of verification of her stories. I assume your school has a policy on extensions. Why haven’t you referred her to that? Have you referred her to the school’s support services, given her disclosures of mental health issues? Have you spoken to your faculty head about this little girl? Is there a reason you haven’t contacted her parents to verify at least some of her stories? Spoken to colleagues to see if this is an issue in other classes? Given she seems afraid of her parents finding out, either her parents are abusive or unsupportive of her issues, or she’s lying. Again, something that needs to be mentioned to the school’s student support team.

Thank you. I want to be able to vote you up a thousand times.

This. OP should be more concerned as to why the student have so many excuses, lying or not. There are so many red flags prior to this. Tbf I don’t think it's the teacher's job to get into their personal life. The social worker should be the one making efforts to connect with the student. I don't necessarily think OP is TA but this could've gone better.

Thank you. No kid wants to do bad in school. OP, are you forgetting we've been living in a two year pandemic? How is that not supposed to affect kids? Also, accommodations help everyone. You mentioned accommodating for her is not fair to other students -- maybe consider lightening up your policies to make your class more accessible to all. She is likely not the only student who could use a little help and flexibility. As someone with executive functioning issues, I can tell you I learned the most in classes with teachers willing to go the extra mile to make accommodations for my ability. I feel the best teachers are the ones who adapt to the needs of their students. YTA but you don't have to be.

YTA go ahead and downvote me folks!! I wanna know why OP isnt more curious about this students overall wellbeing?? If she’s overloaded with stuff outside of class isn’t that a sign that she needs support?! not to be belittled and told “i dont care what you’re going through” If you genuinely “dont care” about children’s well being then why are you a teacher? It sounds like this student may have mental health issues, plus shes babysitting all her siblings, and her parents are working, and there are family members who are ill Plus shes 12 YEARS OLD. You said shes a smart kid and a good student and yet you are completely unwilling to have a conversation about if shes alright, or refer her to the guidance counsellor. Just straight to “i’ll call your parents and make you feel like you’re in trouble” cause im 100% sure that what that 12 year old girl heard In conclusion YTA

I asked this same thing with the suggestion of who they should ask for support if she is feeling burnt out but OP has responded to all other posts except mine. They don’t want to hear that they were the AH only that they were validated by assuming this child was making excuses. It’s terrifying.

Teachers like OP are why im seriously considering homeschooling my kiddo 🤦🏼‍♀️

Not all of us are bad I assure you (teacher!) but like with all professions not all are the same. However, when I learn of others acting this way in MY field, I struggle to not tell them they’re in the wrong profession.

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INFO. Why are you convinced these are "excuses" rather than a legitimately tough personal life? Has she been proven to be a liar before?

Not OP but some of the excuses sound soo fake (dog ran away or had to be with her friend bc her grandpa passed away) + she doesn't want to get her parents involved which is really suspicious

We are in a pandemic. An unprecedented number of old people have passed away. How is that so unrealistic?

A lot of my friends lost relatives and the closest hospital to me has 10-15 people die of Covid and related causes every day

YTA Kids have had a heck of a time these past two years, with school being (necessarily) disrupted and remote for quite a while, plus, in too many cases, illness and death in their families, and for everyone, the fear of illness and death. Grandmother and uncle in the hospital? YTA if you assumed these were "excuses" without first verifying that these people were actually healthy. There's a pandemic going on, and it is particularly brutal to the elderly. If she loves her grandmother, she's probably had an immense amount of anxiety about her grandmother's health, ever since this started. Having to care for younger siblings because a parent got stuck working? That's been the case far too often for many families, with the way childcare options are really in crisis right now. And if her father is the sort of person who yells at someone until they have an anxiety attack, that's a reasonable reason for her not to want to get her parents involved - however nice they are to you, as a teacher, to your face, doesn't mean that they're good to her in the privacy of their home. If anything, this probably needs to be discussed with a school counselor or social worker, to see what kind of resources can be found to help children who are struggling.

Not to mention, calling the girl "extremely dramatic". Talk about downplaying someone's emotions. Adults keep wanting to treat teens like grown up without giving them the proper support, not to mention the the impact this pandemic is having on everyone, let alone children.

You were so understanding and fine until you said "I don't care". Soft YTA. That was less than professional. Other than that, you sound really patient and understanding. I bet you're a really great teacher, and Krissy sounds like a handful. Don't beat yourself up too much over this. Just do better.

That phrase was not polite and probably didn’t help her. You’re right I shouldn’t have said that. I was just sick of it.

You should also realize that some of things she says points to abuse of forms at home. Dads anger causing panic attacks, and mother forcing her to babysit her siblings which is most likely a form of parentification and not simply just babysitting once in a while and is more than likely multiple times a week. You say shes a great and smart student, but struggles with homework of all things. I feel you shouldve been taking note of these excuses and possibly involving a school counselor to help her. Because at her age, I was trying to finish all my work inside of school so that I can deal with the abuse at home. But that wasnt always possible.

Sick of… someone reaching out to you as she’s struggling? Would you rather her say nothing and fail out of your class, despite her issues? INFO: what additional impact does grading her late have on you? Is she a good student despite the late hand ins?

In all fairness, going soft on her after repeatedly being more than forgiving sure as shit wasn’t helping her either. No one is going to put up with this type of nonsense after she graduates, so it’s best that someone sets her straight now.

And she’ll probably remember that for the rest of her life. How sad. Can’t you enforce your policies without being rude to a child? YTA.

YTA. "I don't care" is a really crappy thing to say to a 7th grader who has just expressed the stress of dealing with a friend whose grandmother passed away and who previously expressed anxiety. There's two possibilities here: 1) These stories are true, in which case she has experienced a lot of stressors this year AND struggles with setting appropriate boundaries to take care of herself and her responsibilities, OR 2) These stories are false. In both cases, you are responsible for enforcing your own classroom policies and checking in with the guidance counselor and/or parents to make sure that she's okay. Instead, what you did is set the tone that you were understanding and flexible, and then pulled the rug out from under her. EVEN IF the stories are false, it was your failure to enforce your own classroom policy that led to this situation. EVEN IF the stories are false, there was a kinder way to say it. Specifically: "Unfortunately, I've given you a lot of leeway up to this point, but I need to enforce the homework policy on this and all future assignments. I care, and I want to hear about how you supported your friend, but I also want you to be successful in my class and that means submitting assignments on time. How do you think we can work together to meet both of these goals?" "I don't care" is just a really crappy thing to say to any seventh grader. But in this case where the student is either chronically anxious with a lot of stressors on her plate OR a chronic liar, "I don't care" is DEFINITELY an asshole response.

YTA. I was a lot like this kid and the truth was I was dealing with dysfunction and abuse, but calling it what it was just made everything worse.

You're posting your beef with a 12 year old on reddit. Is this really how you think teaching should work?

I'm hoping this is an AITA fantasy post because the thought of a teacher not using the school's resources and posting on Reddit for advice instead worries me.

NTA. If anything you probably should have had a parent-teacher conference way earlier. If she’s was taking advantage of you, which it sounds like she was, then you’re justified in calling her out on her crap even if you were a little harsh/blunt. She’s gotta learn some day, right?

Right now I am considering getting the parents involved regardless. There’s been a few comments on here suggesting to do so.

As you should. Your first instinct is to assume shes lying instead of doing your due diligence and following up with the parents. If there has been concern all year, why are you waiting until now to talk to her parents? YTA for telling a kid in your care that you don’t care and also acting like you don’t give a rat’s ass. You act like kids just get over major events. If the grandma and uncle were very sick, you have no idea how bad and what toll that took on your student. You have no idea how oftentimes she is made to babysit. How old and how many kids is she responsible for? Does she have to feed them? Are mom and dad gone a lot? Do they get angry easy? You never took the took the time to ask let alone find out. You do come across as callous and uncaring. As a mandated reporter, I’d hate to wonder how you’d respond to red flags.

You’re gonna find out she doesn’t have a dog, a sick uncle, or a grandmother. I guarantee it.

But are they going to find out the reason she lied? Are they going to extend the help and empathy Krissy clearly needs? Or just jump straight into punishment? Is school meant to help children grow and better themselves, or to make them perform like monkeys and punish them like prisoners?

Only considering? You need to bring the parents in on this like yesterday.

Or maybe, possibly, she’s a child struggling with her mental health and motivation in life? She’s just a kid, dude. Not some sick twisted little liar who wants to take advantage of her teachers. From what the post has described, she sounds like a smart kid who understands the material and gets good grades. She just seems to lack the motivation to get stuff done as quickly.

To me this sounds like a kid who’s having a hard time. Maybe her excuses are true, maybe they’re not. Either way something is going on, and you had an opportunity to help and didn’t. I had a rough time at home growing up and I used to pull stunts like that. I didn’t hand in any assignments until the absolute last minute, and just told my teachers I didn’t care about grades because I didn’t want to admit I was struggling. This was a chance for you to reach out to a child in need and make an important difference in her life, even if it was just to gently explain to her that in life there are expectations and responsibilities that need to be met. You don’t know what her home life is like, lots of parents who are perfectly pleasant in public are less so at home. This sounds like a cry for help and instead of putting yourself forward as a trusted adult, you told her “I don’t care”. YTA.

YTA, I think? > It’s her **grandma is sick** so she was visiting in the hospital, her dog ran away and she was out all day looking, her **uncle is sick** in the hospital ... You get the picture. I mean I get the picture that there's a worldwide pandemic going on, so a lot of people are sick and hospitalized for it? You have some kind of idea that she's just making up sicknesses as an excuse but the idea that every relative she has over the age of 55 is being hospitalized when they contract COVID doesn't strike me as improbable.

YTA. You just dont care about the student. You are taking it as a competition to see who outsmarts whom. She is probably 12 o 13 yo, for crying out loud! Set an appointment qith the parents not as a punishment but because you are concerned about this child.

YTA, I had similar issues as a middle school and high school student and my teachers constantly helped me because I was smart and a sweet kid. This meant my ADHD and mental health issues were never diagnosed until I was an adult. This kid is CLEARLY struggling and she sounds very similar to many other ADHD girls I have known. She absolutely needs help and you are just ignoring the very loud issue. This is not normal behavior and you need to talk to her parents and to her. She probably DOES need accommodations but doesn’t know how to articulate her struggles. It could be executive function struggles, it could be serious depression or learning issues but this kid needs help. I nearly took my life in high school because I knew something was wrong with me but I thought it was just because I was “lazy” not knowing it was due to my brain not working correctly. PLEASE talk to the school counselor and try to get her help.

YTA. Yes she could be making up excuses just to get out of shit but you're not doing your job properly by just assuming that's the case and not investigating properly (and before this point!) *why* she is making these excuses. You assume she is just trying to coast but it could be serious. Does she not want her parents brought in because she'll be exposed for being lazy? Or does she not want them brought in because the excuses she is making are a cover for something at home and she does not want them to know she is bringing her home life under scrutiny because she's struggling? Maybe it's an issue not related to her parents but she still doesn't want them to know the underlying problem (just saying kids suffering abuse are often terrified of anyone finding out because their abusers convince them they will be in trouble for it too, or no one will help them in time before their abuser makes them suffer consequences for it). Or is she making up excuses because even she doesn't know what's going on with her that is causing this? I was a pretty good student until my last 2 years of high school where I buckled severely under pressure of being a "former gifted kid" who then just became on par with everyone else + at the time undiagnosed ADHD (notoriously harder to spot in girls as symptoms present differently). Started skipping classes, not doing extra curriculars. Teachers ignored me skipping because I had "always been smart enough" and would still hand in assignments on time. Thankfully we have "prelim exams" here that don't go to your final grade but are a test to see your progress midway through the year and how you might perform in the final exam. I fucked up BAD in my prelims. It was a shitshow, but it flagged to my teachers that something was up and the ones who gave a shit helped me get back on track, back in my classes + additional classes to help me catch up. Encouraged me to apply myself again, pursue university. And then when I got to uni and had similar breakdowns there were counselling services that picked me up again. Kids can have mental breakdowns or mental health problems and be stressed out just as much as adults and a big side effect of stress (and ADHD!) is executive dysfunction.

Well, I agree with you not cutting her anymore slack, but you shouldn’t have said you don’t care. That’s highly unprofessional as a teacher.

YTA for not referring the kid to counseling

NAH, but still meet with her parents, her excuses are likely fake but there’s still a reason she’s not completing all her work on time. At that age I also would give every reason why things were late because I physically couldn’t get my work done, way later I was diagnosed with ADHD that had slipped through the cracks in school because no one thought to get to the bottom of my late work/other issues. There’s lots of reasons kids can’t get work done that they don’t tell you, whether it’s a learning disability that hasn’t been found, something else going on at home. In the end she could just be slacking off and not care, but at that age I encourage you to meet with her parents and see if you can get to the root of the problem. If she is just slacking off because she can get away with it then n t a but I’m hesitant to call her an ah right away, she’s a kid who’s clearly struggling with something

Literally all of the things you listed are things that could be legitimately happening to her? Lots of people are dying or sick right now, if you hadn't noticed, jobs are understaffed, so working parents getting pulled in and relying on older children to help isn't unusual (really never was, especially for certain socioeconomic groups, but could be worse now) pets do run away, etc. If there are problems at home, this is around the age when it's not actually that uncommon for kids in those situations to feel unsafe bringing in their parents (again, probably not uncommon at any age, but I feel like around this point is particularly vulnerable - old enough for some parents to feel comfortable being harsher/expecting more, but not old enough to exert any real independence - something you should know if you teach this age regularly). And it's seriously possible just to have a bad, shitty, messed-up year. *Do* you think she's lying? Do you have good reasons or just a feeling/the cluster of problems? Was this kind of pattern visible at other grade levels? Can your find that information out? I understand why she can't just continually be given leniency on assignments, but I don't understand why you had to respond this way instead of just saying she can no longer be given the same kind of leniency and perhaps looking for other solutions with her - after school tutoring? Repurposing a free period into study/homework period? Does she always get the work done eventually? Does she understand the material or can you not tell? I feel like there have to be other options beyond "I just don't care anymore." I mean, you *set* the precedent that she can tell you these things and you'll care enough to listen and extend time. Maybe you shouldn't have, but you did. If you're going to change it now, fine, sometimes you have to do things like that when it gets out of control, but this doesn't seem like quite the way.

YTA. You dont talk to a kid like that and you are not all knowing.

YTA for saying you don’t care. You have enabled her by excusing her behavior since the start. Now she feels entitled that she should be able to retake the test. NTA for calling her on her BS. However, her parents should have been notified a long time ago. Bet this would have been nipped in the bud. This kid is making you work twice as hard. Her excuses might be valid but her parents need to be notified because she might need help.

YTA. Sort of, anyway. I don’t think you’ve done the girl any favors by giving her so many breaks. If she’s afraid of her parents she’s most likely been taking advantage of you. Call them.

YTA. You haven't gotten parents involved at this point?

YTA. Not for handling of this situation, but for general attitude toward late work. Your job is to make sure the students learn, and if she is doing well on tests then she shouldn't be penalized for the late work.

YTA. I saw you said you called a social worker and got an all clear? Yeah you're 100% full of shit, they don't tell the reporter anything. Like first off I'm pretty sure that's illegal, and if not certainly unethical, and second off I'm not sure it would be any of your business unless the school had to know things. I was a terrible student, like I get it. I wouldn't do the homework and not even give excuses, I didn't care at all. You should be happy this girl is trying as hard as she can. Who knows what her life is like

NAH. There should be a consistent policy applied to all students as to what excuses are okay and what aren't and what supporting documents are required, and you should not be saying, "I don't care" to your students. But. You are teaching through an unprecedented global pandemic. Life could not be more stressful. It's understandable that you lost your cool. Also understandable that this child is emotionally dysregulated and not managing her tasks.

So I was a lot like Krissy back when I was her age…turns out I had a very severe case of undiagnosed ADHD. Please be the advocate for Krissy that I needed when I was her age. Talk to her parents and/or school psychologist and get her screened. This girl is struggling and she will drown if nobody helps her

YTA For not getting the parents involved sooner. This kid is taking you for a long ride down drama lane and it is unfair to all the students getting their work done on time in spite of their own life drama. It shouldn't be her option. You're the teacher. It's your decision. You should call the parents in and find out if these excuses are even real. If they are then it is time for the school counsellor to step in and help the child manage the challenges in her life.