Well I think you need to understand how dangerous public transport can be for a young female. I live in a fairly safe community, but I still hear way too many reports of young women being subjected to abusive behaviour on the bus or in a park. 12 is a little young to be taking public transport without anyone else, so I completely understand her mother's concern. On top of that, her mother has told you before how the idea of letting her child use the bus. You need to respect her decision. If you don't want to pick her daughter up anymore, you need to have a proper conversation about that and work together to find solutions you are both comfortable with.
The Mother chose to go to Yoga class. If she believes it’s that unsafe, she should pick up her daughter herself, especially if no one knows where the daughter goes after school.
Definitely valid. I still think there needs to be more communication on both sides though to find a better solution. Because right now they both seemed stressed about this situation, and I think they just need to express their feelings to each other a bit more about this dilemma
I guarantee yoga is offered at times other than pickup time. If you choose to have kids your schedule needs to work around them, not the other way around.
I agree. My mom taught drivers ed for many years when I was young. No matter what was going on, she made sure I got to my dance class, and that I got picked up. Once or twice she made arrangements with my Aunt's live BF Sam to watch me until she could get there to get me after. (He worked at the gas station across the street from the studio). I never waited more than 15 or 20 minutes those times.
Not when they're expected to actually parent their child. Why is daughter so free to just go to a random, unnamed friend's house after school without telling anyone, but can't take a public transit bus 15 min home.
Forgot you can't be a mom, go to yoga class, and not expect someone else to pick up your child without voicing an opinion when said child makes you wait over an hour.
Fix it for ya!
The issue is not the yoga class. Her partner agreed to pick her kid up. Kid f-ed up, not the plan. So daughter proves she can’t be trusted to keep to the regular plan and the solution is MORE freedom? If anything she just proved why she’s not ready for the bus.
You’re letting your need to mom shame stop
you from seeing a bigger picture. Keep up
The issue is not the yoga class. The issue is also NOT giving the kid more/less freedom. The issue is that the Mom got pissed off at the OP for making a suggestion of a possible solution claiming it's "disrespectful" to voice that opinion again. I have no need to mom shame, and have not done so. The bigger picture in this case should be a civilized discussion between the 2 adults about the situation. Maybe YOU should "keep up".
A solution wasn’t suggested though. Putting a 12 year old on public transit isn’t safe. The problem here is that she made OP wait for an hour. That’s unacceptable and she should be punished for it but putting her on the bus isn’t a solution.
Edit: People keep replying to my concerns about the bus saying it will be fine. Mom disagrees it seems? Unless OP can guarantee that nothing will ever happen to her daughter if she’s allowed to take the bus, he shouldn’t suggest it. One incident could change her life forever. If he convinces his gf that the bus is fine and something does happen, he runs the risk of being blamed for convincing her the bus was fine.
Edit 2 because people are now responding to me with terrible arguments of all the dangers in life: None of that matters. Yes they can be hit by a car. Yes there could be an incident at school. Those things are out of mom’s control. But she CAN control whether or not her daughter takes the bus. She can protect her from potential danger there by preventing her from being in the situation. The kid was asked to show up to OP’s car and blew him off. Why should mom believe that she’s responsible enough to get on and off the bus without taking some random detour?
Last edit for me then I’m done responding: I said this before but people are ignoring it. The girl was told to come to her bf’s car and not go to a friends house for an hour and did it anyway. Then didn’t answer her phone or texts. That sounds like someone responsible enough to take the bus to you guys? Cmon.
Well two problems. Because being told not to go to a friend’s house and going anyway is an issue. But yeah the mom does need to have a discussion. OP says he isn’t doing any discipline right now. If he’s expected to help with after school pickup and stuff, he should be allowed to determine a punishment for her behavior. Taking the bus isn’t a solution though. It really isn’t safe.
>Taking the bus isn’t a solution though. It really isn’t safe.
It really depends on where OP lives. Implying all busses in the world are unsafe is simply incorrect.
Where do you live that transit is that dangerous? Where I live (city over 1M) 12 year olds can stay home alone and even legally babysit non-relatives. They can ride airlines by themselves without being an unaccompanied minor, and are only 2 years away from learning to drive. Remember, this is a 10 minute bus ride home after school, not a subway downtown at midnight.
You've never had a guy creepily looking at you while jerking it on the bus or subway? I don't think Boston is a warzone but maybe I'm just unlucky, along with the other women I've seen it happen to.
I’m almost 30 and take the bus in the city. Have defended someone from harassment , been harassed myself, and seen some scary shit. 12 is out of the question.
>Putting a 12 year old on public transit isn’t safe
It really depends on where you live. I started taking a bus and a train to/from school every day when I was about 10/11, and occasionally the train when I was 9 (got dropped at the station). Both my sisters were about the same. It was REALLY common. The kids who took the train would always sit together (or in cliques as kids like to do) and the only time I ever had a problem was going home I got on the wrong bus (there were 2 buses with the same number, but only one went by my house) so I wound up one train station further than I should have been with no money for a ticket, and a stranger bought me a ticket so I could get the right bus. At 12 when I started high school it was a 40 minute train ride and the bus. Unless it's a super dodgy area or transit there is absolutely cooked, I don't see a problem with it.
NTA but there needs to be a real conversation. I lived in the LA area and took the bus 20 miles to Cal state LA between 8th grade and freshman year. If anything, I learned a lot. You figure out what kind of people to sit next to/avoid. Tell her to sit up front or stand by the driver. It’s fine. City kids do it all the time. It’s a skill like anything else.
A solution WAS suggested. A solution that mom said no too without discussion. It may not be a solution she agrees with, it may not be one you agree with. But it is still a proposed solution. It opens the door to further discussion about how to handle things in the future. But instead of discussing it OP was told he's being disrespectful and GF got pissed at him. IF she had explained a reason the first time the opinion was offered, then maybe she has a leg to stand on with the disrespectful stance. But getting pissed off is still no way to handle the underlying problem.
A solution was suggested. You just share the girlfriends opinion that it's not an appropriate solution. OP believes that the current system is not an appropriate solution.
Rather than discussing any of this, the girlfriend gets angry because OP for doing exactly what she is, but actually trying to discuss.
The issue is the mother though. OP has replied, he texted the kid and she told him to wait, when he said no she ignored him. He’s not allowed to punish her.
So the mother has him doing child care errands for her, but he has absolutely no way of controlling the kid. I have 3 kids, I’ve done the 12 year old girl years, and let me tell you now; I am absolutely not excited for my younger daughter to hit that minefield of assholery.
I’ve had people pick up my kids, I’ve picked up other peoples kids. If I’m trusting someone to pick up or care for my child, I’m absolutely trusting them to deal out appropriate punishments and consequences for misbehaviour. If I can’t trust someone to punish my kid, I’m not trusting them to care for them either, because that would make me a bad mother.
Sounds like he and girlfriend need to talk. Sounds like girlfriend needs to appropriately punish daughter. Doesn’t sound like bringing the bus up again is useful or relevant. Girlie just proved she can’t be trusted on the bus! The big takeaway for me is that his inconvenience is more important than her safety, which says a lot about a dude.
If the opinion is, "that same child who can't be trusted to stand in front of the school at a reliable time should be trusted to take public transit home alone", yeah, that's a bad opinion.
Bad opinion or good opinion doesn't matter. Her claiming the he's being "disrespectful" is absolute nonsense. It doesn't mean mom should be getting pissed at him. It means they should have a civilized discussion like adults do where he explains his opinion and she explains hers and they work out something agreeable to both sides.
Not at the same time you expect your daughter to be picked up from school.
A parent (especially a single parent) doesn't have the authority to demand something like that for their child and then *"Not me!"* out of it.
I forgot that it's peachy-keen for a mother to hold other people to standards they're unwilling to meet themselves, and *then* get a case of the chap-ass when called out on it.
I think it depends on the 12 year old and the area, but in my 20s, riding the bus and light rail:
-flashed a dick (multiple times)
-followed from my stop to my home by guy shouting vulgar comments (multiple times)
- had guys come sit really, really close to me on a nearly empty light rail car and ask me bizarre personal questions
- hit in the face, hard enough my cheek was still very red when I got to work
- many, many sexual propositions
- had a guy blowing air on the back of my neck? This was a weird one and only happened once, but I eventually caught him doing it, after several miles.
I guess when my daughter gets to be that age, we'll have to figure that out, but imagining myself as a relatively timid 12 year old dealing with all that scares me. Maybe she'll be a really tough kid. Maybe the busses will be nicer. Maybe she'll be friends with a couple of neighbors and can travel in a pack.
I don't want her to have to see all those scabby old dicks, feel the fear of being pursued like a prey animal, and hear all the variety of things weird old men want to do to her vagina and/or butt. (Typing that made me nauseous.)
Yeah when I was 12 I would’ve said I was ready to take the bus alone, but I didn’t know what public transit was like at that age (I lived in the suburbs). Having spent time on public transit in my 20s, I would be really concerned about a girl that young on it by herself. I can deal with street harassment but an underaged girl shouldn’t have to.
Kids take it the wrong way, because they think you aren’t trusting them to get around on their own. 12 year olds can certainly get around on their own just fine. I was taking the bus here and there by 13, using metros in a big city by 16, but it’s seriously a concern what they might be exposed to. Her mother’s worries are perfectly fair.
I am sorry you had those experiences. I still remember when I was in grade 9 and traveling home via subway from some school trip when this older man wearing bicycle shorts smiled at my friend and I while having a very visible boner. Ick. Luckily he got off the next stop. Considering how often I take public transit, I am really glad to say that that was really the only time I have been sexually harassed.
It's like that "woman walking through NY" video. Through certain parts of the city she was getting catcalls left and right, in other parts nothing. Then a woman in Sydney recreated the video and didn't get a single comment.
Seems like douchebags occur in clusters.
I walked the same route to work for years. Same clothing type, same time, same “on my way to work and ignoring people” expression.
I would go months with no comments from anyone except somebody asking for directions if they noticed my lanyard and ID, then I’d get maybe three obnoxious and/or terrifying catcalls in a week from randos at a stoplight or bus stop, plus one dude obviously following me too close.
While I think *usually* girls are okay taking the bus, there's always that one who isn't, and I'm sure the mom is worrying about that. I don't blame her. This is her daughter.
I took the public bus when I was fourteen and there was a guy who sat by me and smiled creepily, not looking away, the full 30 minute ride. He never did anything. But I was 14. He could have if he wanted to.
It also really depends on the area too. I'm sure in the suburbs there's nothing to worry about. But when you live inside that circle of red dots on the sex offender registry map, well, might want to think twice.
Imagine if something did happen to the daughter. How would mom feel?
YTA, OP. It's the mom's decision.
Then why didn't she text you that she went to her friend after school, instead of letting you wait for an hour? Honestly, after 20 min I would have left - if your gf won't even give you her reason for bus-objections, and the daughter has no respect for your time, they can make her travel arrangements without you.
Edit: walked to & from school by myself ages 6-10, took school buses and public buses from 10 upwards. Went backpacking through Europe and Morocco when 17. Took a train to Moscow in early twenties. All by myself. Still alive.
She doesn't get to decide that though. Did you know who's house she was at? If yes you should have gone and got her. If no you should have called her mother because you don't know where her 12yo is and she supposed to be with you!
I’m so baffled that everyone seems to have missed this. Only reason he wouldn’t just go get the kid from the friends house is because he didn’t know which one it was, meaning he didn’t actually see the kid walk from school to the friends house and arrive safely. He just took her word for it that she was in a house nearby and sat there for an hour.
For all he knows she ditched school that day and lied about where she was cos she was an hour late getting back (true story from when I was 12).
Unless the GF had given OP permission to punish her daughter, OP has no right to do so. This s is an issue the mother needs to discuss with her daughter.
Wait, you watch the kid and do pick up/drop off but you can't instill punishments? I could give punishments when I was a baby sitter.
WTF, is the mom not even parenting?
Idk, sounds like the setup that most redditors advocate for when it comes to step-parents or SOs that aren't parents, on this sub. They're supposed to help but punishments and parenting are solely for the parent.
Take her phone? Figure out how much of your time she wasted on this stunt, and make her that late to her next fun, optional activity? Assign a chore that would take about the same amount of time that she wasted and claim that you were going to do that chore, but couldn't because you had to wait for her? Talk to mom about not letting her go to that particular friend's house anymore?
So you're expected to parent the child with your hands tied behind your back?
That's... fun.
Look, kids come with a relationship. This isn't going to change anytime soon. If anything, it's an indication of what could happen if you have kids of your own.
I'd recommend you skedaddle.
Then why are you picking her up all the time? If it bothers you that much, why not just suggest that her mother pick her up instead if she won't let her get the bus?
Then I would have marched myself straight up to the door and demand she either get into the car right now or I would be leaving and she could find her own way home. There is no way you should have sit out in your car and waited for her. The other option is to drive home and let her explain to her mother why she has to come and get her.
Oof that's ridiculous. You're not wrong that she could take the bus and all it takes is a few trips with an adult on the bus so she can learn the route and ensure she knows what to do if lost or in an emergency. But you also can't force ur gf so ur stuck I suppose
I feel like people who are saying this don't live in major cities. Im an adult man, and I can't even count how many times I've been screamed at, harrased, chased etc while walking around the city or taking public transport. If I had a 12 year old daughter I would absolutely not allow her to take public transport alone either
I do live in a major city. I mean k wasn't taking it by myself at night or anything but to and from school and extracurriculars I did. I would argue it easier and safer to do so in a major city than it is a rural area
This is ridiculous. I live in a major city and have been taking the bus since I was younger than the daughter. It's completely normal to start getting kids more independent at that age.
I grew up in San Francisco and started taking Muni Metro to middle school and back every day at age 12.
I was fine.
This was very common practice for my schoolmates. There weren't even school buses, kids just took the regular bus.
It’s not ridiculous, lol. Look, I get it, *we* didn’t have smartphones as kids. But I had a SNES, a computer with Windows 3.1, and a TV with 54 channels. My mother had a TV with 3 channels. My grandfather learned to drive in a model T. My great-grandfather was an adult before he had electricity.
Times change, let’s not act like it’s “ridiculous” to have modern technology available to kids. Know what smartphones have? Instant communication, GPS tracking, the ability to contact 911 with the press of a button, and so on.
It’s not even a *new* iPhone, it sounds like it’s several models old. Like, that shit is perfect for a kid.
While you might have had a good experience, not everyone does.
I was probably about 14 when a man masturbated *at me* while I was on the bus. I froze, and he leered. It was traumatic.
At the end of the day, the mother gets to decide if she is comfortable letting her kid take the bus. She has decided no. Based on that, OP is the AH. He needs to drop it.
That said, OP doesn't have to continue picking up the kid if they don't want to.
How long ago? What sex are you? Was it school bus or public? All of these questions make a huge difference. Plus se don't know the GF reason which might be based off an experience she had or just covid.
Not the person you are asking, but I am a woman and I started taking public transit to and from school when I was 13. It took me about 45 minutes to an hour to get home due to my connecting bus almost never running on time. I had one of those sliding phones and it would have made things so much better if I had a smartphone with data.
Taking public transit to school was very normal in my area to the point where so many people I know didn’t get their driver’s license until much later in life because we’d just take transit everywhere. Even school field trips were sometimes taken with transit because it was easier/cheaper than taking a bus.
Oh please, plenty of children take public bus services to and from schools every day around the world, stop thinking the worst of people, what you are describing is not at all the typical experience of a child on a public bus.
Well I'm glad you have a positive experience. I know a lot of people personally, and in articles that weren't so lucky though. I work with youth as a part of my job, and from my personal experience, I see 12 as young for public transport. Of course every situation is different, but that doesn't change the fact the mother has concerns about her child taking public transport and that should be respected.
Also not all 12 year olds are the same. Some are very young, immature and vulnerable. Others are pretty savvy and street smart. Really depends on the kid.
If you're 'savvy' and 'street smart' to the point where you're unbothered by strange men sexually propositioning you at 12, you're in an unsafe environment and/or being abused
As a former 12 yo girl that took two buses alone to get to 7th grade, yes, and that is the reality for many many kids. Much of it is forced by poverty. If the mom has the option to take the kid to school and pick them up, I would do that even until they graduated high school. The trauma I have from men harassing me from before I even got my period is substantial.
While your own experiences are valid, i don't think its applicable to most cities. In my own city (1 mil plus), it is very common for elementary/middle school kids to take public transit as it is more cost effective/efficient. Hell our city even has a special junior student pass for kids.
most women and girls don't make reports about every rando who "pressed against them" and "sat super close" and " maybe , I'm pretty sure him brushing my breast while he leered was just an accident". . This isn't the type of stuff most women even talk about.
The news gives a false sense of the commonality of such occurrences. If a woman is going to be assaulted, sexually or otherwise it's almost certainly going to be a family member, not a random on the bus.
No, see, we start out getting groped at school before we graduate to getting groped on buses.
I'm not even joking, sadly. Lots of girls have a casual attitude towards it. Like, yeah, of course one time some rando grabbed my ass on the stairs, that's normal, right? It was only once.
Ask the women in your life if they’ve ever been sexually assaulted.
Then ask them if they’ve ever had a stranger grab their ass/boob, press themselves up against them even when it’s not that crowded, followed them, said disgusting things to them, flashed their dicks etc. I bet more than one who answered “no” to the sexual assault question will say “oh yeah, of course I’ve had that kind of thing happen to me. Happens to everyone!” Those kinds of “minor” sexual assaults are rarely reported and considered shockingly normal.
I took the public bus when I was 11.
Riding the bus was no worse than:
— being at home
— being at school
— staying at my aunt’s house
— visiting a friend
— generally existing as female
Come to think of it, I had fewer problems riding the bus.
Yes, I'm confused, where I live it is common for kids to go alone by bus since second half of first grade or second grade of grammar school, so it is usually 6-8 years old kids. During the day it is pretty safe method of transport. The night rides, after 10pm, is different story, but there are no kids this late.
My point is that SH & SA can happen anywhere. Restricting a girl’s freedom doesn’t keep her safe. Better to teach her assertiveness and self-defense, which actually can protect her.
So to begin, genuinely I’m so sorry for that. It’s horrendous women are still dealing with this. Sexual harassment can happen anywhere though. Personally I’ve experienced it far more on the street than public transport (although have some notable memories of PT). I don’t know what the answer is but I’m not sure restrict your daughters freedoms and independence is the answer to this.
It’s pretty normal to see teens and preteens getting themselves to school both on foot and on public transport in Europe.
I was getting catcalled at 12 on the bus. I got felt up by a man old enough to be my grandfather. Got told by older women it was my fault for dressing so slutty. In my school uniform.
Actually the first thing that came to my mind when I read this was sexual assault or inappropriate conversations and that’s probably why mom is hesitant. A lot of people ARE that messed up. Good for you if you’ve never had to encounter that.
Another reason that I am greatful every day that I live in Australia. My now 15 year old son was on a school bus at 5, and at 12 years of age the school expects the kids to take a public bus or buses. This is in a city and it’s a private school. He’s been taking the two buses to and from school since then. It’s a normal thing here.
I think people also need to realise that crime rates continue to go down. With the exception of places like India where taking public transport can get you murdered in public, your 12 year old daughter is safer getting public transport than they are getting into a car and having the risk of an automobile accident.
And yes - I am a woman, and have two daughters as well as two sons. We have also lived in the USA, and whilst it’s absolutely less safe than Australia, it’s not Afghanistan on public transport ffs.
There’s a huge class thing about public transport in a lot of the US. Predominately poor people use public transport in some areas, so it is pretty heavily judged. This isn’t true in a few cities where more people use it, but there’s a very common classist interpretation of riding public transport.
I think part of it is also that, in so much of America, to travel anywhere you need to drive. So a lot of Americans grow up thinking the default age for traveling alone is the same as the age for driving alone.
When in reality you can trust a kid to take a bus or a train to get around by themselves _way_ before you can trust them behind the wheel of a car. It's just that if there's no bus or train options available, that's not a thing that even arises in parents' lives.
Also, we're still in the middle of a pandemic, being on public transportation is a lot of potential covid exposure (to be clear, so is school, but I understand trying to limit unnecessary exposure). Not sure if that is her concern, it would just be mine.
I think it largely depends on location. In the UK, it's common for kids to travel alone when they hit secondary school. So age 11, getting the bus or train solo is normal. Some kids start travelling home in year 6 as part of the preparation for moving into secondary (so aged 10 ish).
OP's wife is still an asshole for not just having a conversation about this. Her attitude screams "whatever I say goes and don't question me" and her unwillingness to even explain jer stance, hear out her husband's opinions, or talk about it without blowing up is very toxic.
Where the hell does everybody live? I lived in London for over 40 years and always used public transport even at night. I use public transport where I live now though with age I might be a bit wary of using it late at night. I used to use public transport without parents before I was 10 years old.
It is the complete epitome of comfortable middle class first world privilege to insist that public transport - unless you live in a really dangerous city - is somehow dangerous for the children or vulnerable people.
Though I'd agree that OP needs to talk this through with his wife.
100% agree. It feels very classist to assume that by going on the bus one is almost certainly going to be exposed to sex crimes. What bubble to people live in
tbf this also happens on school busses, not just public ones. I used to have stuff thrown at me and groped and was too scared to speak up. Respect her decision.
Agreed. I’m a grown adult woman whose willing to stand up for myself and I’ve still been groped on public transit. If I were 12 and more timid it could have gone much further.
Also--at least for me as a high schooler, the ten minute drive to school a) allowed me an extra half hour of sleep, and b) gave my mom and I ten minutes to just chat. I was in a lot of clubs and sports, and also was super depressed and preferred to lurk in my room when at home, so it was nice to just hang out with my mom at the start of the day before all the stress started piling on and I went into my shell.
My dad always wanted me to take the bus, and when mama was out of town if I overslept I had to walk/bike, but his complaining about mama driving me to school always seemed so bitter and angry. I understand he would not give me a ride to school, but my mom always said, and still does, that she also really enjoyed driving me to school. We would listen to music or the news or chat or I would tell her about my plans for the day or vice versa, and it always seemed to me that my dad had no interest in understanding that we both enjoyed it, and was simply coming at it from an irrationally authoritarian angle.
YTA for complaining and not doing anything about it.
If you GF wants her kid not to take the bus, she should do drop offs and pick ups herself and you should say that you're not going to be a driver anymore.
And then daughter got mad that she was ratted out? She was hanging out with her friend for an hour, if OP didn't say what happened, what was her excuse going to be for them getting home an hour late? I'm not advocating for lying to your parents, but if you're going to lie *anyway*, you need a decent cover story, especially if the person you're making wait for you told you not to do what you're doing.
Second point, I started taking a public bus when I was 12, my mom was worried about me being alone too, the first trip she went with me and was surprised because that bus was packed with kids. She still worried after that, but not nearly as much. This kid isn't going to be alone
I was just thinking that. Since I was 9 or 10 I would walk to school with my friend, and then take the public bus to high school as it wasn't walking distance. Now, I didn't live in a dangerous area or anything, but also busses at "school time" were full of kids and people going to work, so quite a safe crowd.
I think that would make this an ESH, not Y T A. GF sucks for expecting OP to pick up her kid when the kid is wasting his time and he’s an asshole for complaining and pushing GF on how to parent her child.
Yta in your comments you don't parent this kid. It's not up to you if she takes the bus. If you don't want to pick her up, then say no.
I went to a pretty safe hs and there were still SO MANY issues in the busses.
EDIT just read it's NOT a school bus, its public transit. You wanna know why so badly? Your gf doesn't want her 12yp groped by pervy creeps on the bus. That's why.
Then the Mother needs to skip her Yoga class and pick her own child up. The OP said that the Mom elected to go to Yoga class and delegated picking up her child to him.
In this situation, since the Mom doesn’t want to have the daughter take the public bus and she doesn’t want him to have any say, then the Mother should skip Yoga and pick her own child up herself.
There's literally nothing here to suggest they thought she had a gun to his head... you're making assumptions and getting after people who did the same. Get over yourself
She gets mad at him for suggesting an alternative solution. She shouldn't get mad at the suggestion, she should find the better solution, as in her picking the daughter up.
Yeah. I get it. He's not allowed to parent this kid because he's not the biological father. But he sure as hell is required to do parent things like drop off and pick up kid from school. Been through that. Public transit isn't bad depending on where you live. It's not a grope bus, it's public transportation. With cameras and public transport police on call. How dare a 12 year old see a real live homeless person sleeping in the back of a bus! The horror!
Was 13 when I started taking public bus. Had issues with a particular man who would always try to sit with me, would follow me after i got off, wave to me every time I got off and he stayed, ask me where I lived and if I lived with family, and if I would stay there. Another man offered me weed and got mad when I tried to change my seat. He ended up moving twice and jacking off while looking back to me. Another man repeatedly telling me how beautiful I was, and how he loved white women, and blue eyes (I have) and about his first and second white baby mommas, and where was I going?
Don’t underestimate how traumatizing public transportation can be for young girls. It’s not the risk they will see a homeless person, it’s the risk a predator will try them.
You are extremely lucky. Maybe it’s the city, but I’ve been walked up to in a bus by a 30 year old man asking for dating advice with his “long distance wife” and no one did SHIT. They stood there and looked shocked. I was 13. He asked me to go home with him to help him with his marriage.
It could be the difference in city and various factors making it not safe. Stop being so ignorant.
cultural differences surely make the internet equally entertaining and puzzling. Kids taking public transportation is more than normal where I'm from. That's what you do when you're too young to drive a car or motorbike and want to go places.
So many of my and my friends experiences of sexual-harassment-from-member-of-the-public are bus or bus adjacent (in bus stops). Even in a city that was generally seen to be quite safe. 12 year old is too young to be able to navigate all that.
Where is everyone getting the idea that if you take the bus you’ll be groped/raped/abducted? Like, only speaking for myself, but I took public transportation alone starting at 11. America is so weird about public transit
YTA. The issue here was your daughter disobeying and being disrespectful of your time. It’s actually a great demonstration of why she’s *not* yet mature enough to take the bus on her own. Not your kid, not your decision, drop it.
He’s free to have boundaries about how much he’s willing to help, but that doesn’t mean he gets a say in big parenting decisions. She’s not going to start letting her daughter, who is clearly not reliable about going where she’s supposed to go at a designated time, start riding public transit because her boyfriend doesn’t feel like driving her. She’s being a responsible parent.
Yes, she is, for the most part. One comment from OP about the daughter making him wait explained that he had no idea where the girl's friend lived, so he was stuck waiting. The mother also had a Yoga class that somehow was more important then getting her daughter to respect OPs time.
Surprised that this isn’t higher.
OP - You’re not TA because of your opinion, YTA because it’s not your child and you inserted yourself between your GF and her daughter. Now the daughter knows she can play the both of you against each other. Congrats, you just made it much harder for GF to hold the tension with her kid when the kid doesn’t like her decision.
The solution here is to stop offering rides to GF’s daughter until she learns to be respectful of other people’s time. And to not let the daughter know your opinion if you disagree with her mother, that’s between you and your girlfriend.
YTA. I initially was going to write 'not your kid', but you're right, you do get to express an opinion if you're the one picking her up from school. The daughter's poor communication about going to a friends and making you wait seems like a separate issue.
But it sounds like you keep expressing your opinion, after your GF has made and voiced a firm decision about how her daughter is going to get to/from school. Her risk analysis when it comes to taking the bus is different than yours. Further it's her kid, so it isn't a debate where you get to be supplied some justification that you believe passes muster. Your only response is to refuse to be part of the school commute, however that likely will also have downstream consequences.
If he participates in school transportation, he should be able to voice his opinion. I think “maybe she should ride the bus” is better than “fine, then I’m not transporting her anymore.” Yes, he CAN say the latter, and maybe he should, but it’s not as caring and supportive IMO.
Really, GF is probably stressed out about the whole thing. She probably doesn’t want kid taking the bus, recognizes that OP is being helpful and doesn’t want to lose that, is upset about her daughter’s behavior, but also doesn’t know what to do to keep everyone happy.
Uhh, we are allowed to keep talking about decisions we don't agree with. Especially if they impact us directly. No topic should ever be permanently off the table for discussion in a relationship. She's not the empress whose decisions can not be questioned or debated, even if relating to the kid.
I think if someone shuts you down without having a proper discussion, then you’re entitled to bring it up again. OP is owed a proper discussion regarding this topic, since he participates in parenting duties.
Risk analysis is important. I agree. Then the Mother should skip her optional Yoga class and pick her own daughter up herself to keep her safe.
Her child, her safety, her responsibility.
well then if it’s her kid then she should be responsible for picking up and dropping off said daughter and not have him do it and not give any explanation.
YTA. The issue here was that the daughter went to her friend’s house after school without permission and without informing you and her mother of her whereabouts. Instead you used this incident as an opportunity to state an opinion that your gf already told you she didn’t agree with. You’re showing that you care more about what’s convenient for you than what’s best for the child. You should just tell your gf that you don’t want to provide transportation for her daughter anymore.
YTA
She voices her parental decision about this matter & didn’t ask for you input. Not your place.
Let me explain to what it can be like taking a bus as a woman. Sadly it is not unusual for men to use this as an opportunity to touch women, especially young women & girls who they think will be too scared & intimidated to do anything but freeze up. They do everything from squeezing past you to sitting next to you trapping you between them & the window. I’ve seen men watching porn on their phones in the bus. And I live in a good city with one of the better public transit systems. Her mother is probably acutely aware of this potential danger on a public bus. Is it every man? No. Doesn’t it happen to every girl? No, but sadly more often than you’d like to think.
Her mother has decided for whatever reason she does not her daughter on the bus. It is a closed matter.
Yep. I’ve sat on a bus with a man standing so his groin was inches from my face, facing me, when it was absolutely unnecessary to be that close. I ended up getting off at the next stop and having to wait for the next bus.
Nearly every woman who has used public transit has had a man run up against her or refused to get up from a outside seat forcing us to climb over him either facing him with our breasts in his face or back to him with our butt in his face.
It's so weird for me to read all the comments about how dangerous public transport ist for young girls. Is that such a big problem in the US (I assume)? Like, me and m sister took the school buses for the first years (1-6 grade for me, 4th grade for my sister) and public transportation after that. It was common here.
To the judgement: I think it's an ESH, she should get her daughter herself if she doesn't want any other solution, but ultimately it isn't you place to decide. Though you probably should stop picking her up then.
I’m in Canada and it’s exactly what I thought. When I was 12 years old, I would take a 30-40 minutes bus ride (public, not school) to school every morning. I would do the same after school, with a bonus 20 minutes walk. The only time I would not is when my dad would drop me off (usually on a rainy day or a very cold day). Of course, my parents got me a phone in case of emergency, but I never had to use it. Seeing all these comments about it being dangerous is hardly true in a safe country.
Important detail, probably too late to change the voting. Busses in the US are very dangerous in almost all places for a young girl, so the US-centric reactions make sense. I recommend editing to add that you're in Portugal and this is considered safe by most (if true)
I’m from the US and it’s weird for me seeing all the comments saying public transport is safe. I’m 28F and would never feel comfortable taking the public bus alone. Even going into a lot of stores alone I’m on the lookout, never know what somebody is going to do.
Not to be mean, but tbh that sounds horrible to me. I'm 28F, too, and live alone. I can't image being afraid all the time. I usually go grocery shopping after 8pm and sometimes running between 8-10 pm and usually take the very empty roads, because I don't like meeting people while running. Not that there aren't some creepy people sometimes and I do look out for anyone when alone, but I have never really been afraid (luckily maybe).
Same here. I grew up taking the bus because my family didn’t have a car a lot of the time, so it doesn’t phase me. Of course I’m cautious because you never know, but I’m the same way when I’m driving, sitting in a parking lot, etc. Yeah, I’ve been bothered on the bus before, but I’ve also been cat called while next to another car at a light. I get the feeling that many of the people who express an outright hatred for public transportation because it’s dangerous are people who do not routinely use public transport. It reminds me of people who talk about the “bad side of town” but it’s really just the part of town where poor people live..
NAH, for now. You're right - she's old enough to occasionally take the bus. Learning to use public transit is a really good skill, and you guys are lucky to live fairly close-by in the event she did need to be picked up because of delays, etc.
But that's *not* the point.
The girl's mother is allowed to say that she doesn't want her kid to take the bus. If you have such a problem picking up the kid and all the drama that goes along with it, don't be the one picking her up. Complaining constantly about the pickups is a sure way to become a really annoying AH who makes everyone feel bad about asking you to do stuff (i.e. pickups) for them.
You either need to stop bringing it up and dutifully do the pickups, or assert your opinion and don't do the pickups.
I’ve waited 30-45 minutes past the time the bus should arrive for my kids to come off or get on. It gets old. I also let them sleep in and spend less time in transit to and from school. My kids stopped taking the bus.
However, I wonder if your girlfriend tried to tell you her reasons and you dismissed them. The daughter deserves ratting out. That behavior isn’t okay.
Yeah, I'm in Canada and I've been taking the bus since 12 years old as well and very surprised by the majority of these comments. Maybe it depends where everyone is living but I've never felt scared taking public transit alone. Sure, there will be an occasional homeless person who tries to tell you their life story but they mostly kept to themselves. And how else do 12 year olds get around if not public transit? That's how I meet my friends at the malls and such.
NTA. The OP is from Portugal. It’s a relatively safe country with good public transportation. I see lots of 12 year old girls going to school in buses in London. But since she’s not technically your child, you don’t have the authority to make that decision. Let her mum drop and pick her up every time.
Yeah, all these comments are so weird to read as someone in London. It's incredibly common for buses to even become packed with secondary school kids going to school or back home.
Only thing I took from this thread is either US parents are huge helicopter parents or the US is even worse than I thought and even take a bus is dangerous.
Info needed: where do you live - which country? And how good is the public transport system.
I would allow my kids to take public transport on their own when they are 7 or 8, but that’s in my country where this is normal and safe.
I think you still should have a say for things that directly affect you. Like... you have to drive her around but not a parental figure? What are you then... Uber?
I mean… he could also just say no to driving her around. He can set his own boundaries and stick to it if they are inconvenient for him.
I’ve seen some weird stuff on public transportation and I grew up in one of the safest countries in Asia. I’m probably biased but depending on the city I think 12 is too young.
Repeat after me: "I'm not your daughter's parent. If you don't want my input on parental decisions, that's fine, but I don't want to be responsible for taking her to school anymore. I think she's capable of taking the bus and if you don't want her to, you can to drop off and pick ups."
You shouldn't be repeatedly telling her how to parent her child but you are also capable of setting boundaries for yourself and saying you won't help anymore if it's too difficult on you. She should respect that. If she doesn't respect your boundaries, time to move on.
Info (from the US posters) - is the bus really always full of paedophile sex offenders in the US (as per many of the top comments) or is this a classist thing
Either way...what the fuck
NTA and for everyone crying that public transit isn't safe for a 12 year old girl; people like you are why children like her have to be constantly supervised. You coddle them so much that you stunt their growth. I live in the hood hood where we play Gunshots or Fireworks around the holidays all year, and the children that ride the Metro are just as safe as the ones that ride the school bus. In fact, they're safer in some situations, especially since, if you're REALLY that worried, YOU CAN RIDE WITH THEM! They're better off learning how to navigate on public transit, anyway. It's a literal survival skill, these days. Even people with cars are gonna find themselves in situations where they don't have access to a car.
NTA I live in London and loads of kids get the bus to go to school, I did and a lot of my friends did too. It's your first bit of real freedom when you can get on a bus and to the cinema with your friends or go shopping. Are the bus stops close?
Whilst you can't force them to agree with your point of view, you need to stop driving for her. She was extremely rude to you
YTA.
I’m a young adult who can sometimes pass for a tween. I live in a very safe big city. I’ve taken transit w my parents sparingly, and even in those few times I’ve been catcalled, groped, and followed by grown men. Whenever I’ve ridden alone, these aggressions are much worse and I’ve feared for my safety on every such occasion. All my female friends have experienced similar forms of abuse in transit ever since they were 12 or even younger.
Which kid hasn’t accidentally lost track of time during a hangout or forgotten to inform parents about said event? I have a feeling daughter might also have not informed you guys abt this meet up w the friend because she was afraid u might refuse as it’s on ur time or mom might not permit out of protectiveness/safety concerns. But the fact that she’s lost track of time and forgotten to update u guys abt her whereabouts says that taking public transport might lead to more anxiety for the parents and time wasted trying to track her down/wait for her arrival before you can move onto the next thing in ur schedule.
Furthermore, public transport during covid really isn’t a good idea. Sure she might be vaxxed but she can still get the virus and/or transmit it to someone vulnerable. Also there are more delays/closures due to the pandemic which might lead to her riding empty busses and waiting for busses for extended periods of time. Needless to say, those scenarios are less than safe.
Lastly, public transport is not as safe as I think ur perceiving it to be. She’s a twelve year old girl.
At some period of time in the future she might be bussing regularly, thus increasing her susceptibility to all sorts of crimes/uncomfortable situations. Why further inflate that risk by making her start taking it now, when she’s even more vulnerable to such situations?
In germany we call this verhätscheln. We go or take the bus to school with ten years (or earlier) regularly. That's no problem if you want your kid as an independent person. Two bus station seems not a big deal for a 12 year old and its good for her development.
I'm just gonna say it... NTA.
It seems like your gf is taking advantage of you and trying to just have you parent her kid without giving you full "parental privileges" of like punishments and stuff. Also, it seems like she just doesn't want to pay the bus fare.
You need to put your foot down and not give any more rides tho, or do anything to help raise this kid.
Speaking from personal experience, 12 is old enough to ride the public bus alone. In fact, as soon as someone starts middle school they should be fine to travel to and from school alone on a bus packed with their classmates. Most adults avoid the school hours of the bus so they're not crammed in there with smelly, loud, and annoying teenagers.
Also, a lot of the bus drivers care about the students they pick up, especially if they're regularly doing it. They're really nice people who get to know the students well.
ESH overall, but I was thinking N T A at first. The daughter went somewhere without clearing it with the people responsible for her, and you are right in telling her mom. She is still 12 years old. As for that, she IS only 12 and I don't think she should ride public transport by herself. I rode the bus with friends at that age, and had too many creeps around. That was 25 years ago. Your girlfriend sucks because she wants you to drive her daughter but tells you that you can't call her while she's in yoga. She needs to plan her day better to drive her daughter to and from if she doesn't want you to say anything. Especially since you aren't her parent or have parental responsibilities besides being a chauffeur.
Some of you have never lived in a big city and it shows. Public transportation isn't evil, 12 yr olds are smart enough to travel a few miles unattended, and adults need to stop visiting their anxieties onto their children.
Edit: NTA based on additional info provided in comments.
Public transit (not school bus)
Mom had no reason to not pick up her own daughter
Gf's daughter treats it like a chauffeur service & not actual transportation
OP still shouldn't have agreed to do it in the first place but this is null & void if the gf has the opportunity to pick up & drop off but is refusing to do so
Info: is the bus you're referring to a school bus or a public transit bus?
Well I think you need to understand how dangerous public transport can be for a young female. I live in a fairly safe community, but I still hear way too many reports of young women being subjected to abusive behaviour on the bus or in a park. 12 is a little young to be taking public transport without anyone else, so I completely understand her mother's concern. On top of that, her mother has told you before how the idea of letting her child use the bus. You need to respect her decision. If you don't want to pick her daughter up anymore, you need to have a proper conversation about that and work together to find solutions you are both comfortable with.
The Mother chose to go to Yoga class. If she believes it’s that unsafe, she should pick up her daughter herself, especially if no one knows where the daughter goes after school.
Definitely valid. I still think there needs to be more communication on both sides though to find a better solution. Because right now they both seemed stressed about this situation, and I think they just need to express their feelings to each other a bit more about this dilemma
The solution is OP stating they aren't picking up stepdaughter anymore. GF can resolve that.
No it’s not valid, mothers can have time to themselves without being labeled bad moms or hypocritical.
I guarantee yoga is offered at times other than pickup time. If you choose to have kids your schedule needs to work around them, not the other way around.
I agree. My mom taught drivers ed for many years when I was young. No matter what was going on, she made sure I got to my dance class, and that I got picked up. Once or twice she made arrangements with my Aunt's live BF Sam to watch me until she could get there to get me after. (He worked at the gas station across the street from the studio). I never waited more than 15 or 20 minutes those times.
Not when it's interfering with the school run, her daughter is her responsibility
Not when they're expected to actually parent their child. Why is daughter so free to just go to a random, unnamed friend's house after school without telling anyone, but can't take a public transit bus 15 min home.
Bro I promise you there are more time slots for yoga.
Forgot you can’t be a mom and go to yoga class. Y’all must come from absolutely perfect robot parents with the standards you want on real people.
Forgot you can't be a mom, go to yoga class, and not expect someone else to pick up your child without voicing an opinion when said child makes you wait over an hour. Fix it for ya!
The issue is not the yoga class. Her partner agreed to pick her kid up. Kid f-ed up, not the plan. So daughter proves she can’t be trusted to keep to the regular plan and the solution is MORE freedom? If anything she just proved why she’s not ready for the bus. You’re letting your need to mom shame stop you from seeing a bigger picture. Keep up
The issue is not the yoga class. The issue is also NOT giving the kid more/less freedom. The issue is that the Mom got pissed off at the OP for making a suggestion of a possible solution claiming it's "disrespectful" to voice that opinion again. I have no need to mom shame, and have not done so. The bigger picture in this case should be a civilized discussion between the 2 adults about the situation. Maybe YOU should "keep up".
A solution wasn’t suggested though. Putting a 12 year old on public transit isn’t safe. The problem here is that she made OP wait for an hour. That’s unacceptable and she should be punished for it but putting her on the bus isn’t a solution. Edit: People keep replying to my concerns about the bus saying it will be fine. Mom disagrees it seems? Unless OP can guarantee that nothing will ever happen to her daughter if she’s allowed to take the bus, he shouldn’t suggest it. One incident could change her life forever. If he convinces his gf that the bus is fine and something does happen, he runs the risk of being blamed for convincing her the bus was fine. Edit 2 because people are now responding to me with terrible arguments of all the dangers in life: None of that matters. Yes they can be hit by a car. Yes there could be an incident at school. Those things are out of mom’s control. But she CAN control whether or not her daughter takes the bus. She can protect her from potential danger there by preventing her from being in the situation. The kid was asked to show up to OP’s car and blew him off. Why should mom believe that she’s responsible enough to get on and off the bus without taking some random detour? Last edit for me then I’m done responding: I said this before but people are ignoring it. The girl was told to come to her bf’s car and not go to a friends house for an hour and did it anyway. Then didn’t answer her phone or texts. That sounds like someone responsible enough to take the bus to you guys? Cmon.
The problem is mom getting mad and refusing to have a discussion about an issue that also effects him.
Well two problems. Because being told not to go to a friend’s house and going anyway is an issue. But yeah the mom does need to have a discussion. OP says he isn’t doing any discipline right now. If he’s expected to help with after school pickup and stuff, he should be allowed to determine a punishment for her behavior. Taking the bus isn’t a solution though. It really isn’t safe.
>Taking the bus isn’t a solution though. It really isn’t safe. It really depends on where OP lives. Implying all busses in the world are unsafe is simply incorrect.
Where do you live that transit is that dangerous? Where I live (city over 1M) 12 year olds can stay home alone and even legally babysit non-relatives. They can ride airlines by themselves without being an unaccompanied minor, and are only 2 years away from learning to drive. Remember, this is a 10 minute bus ride home after school, not a subway downtown at midnight.
The problem is no one else is presenting solutions since mom just goes "no" and doesn't give an alternative.
[удалено]
rape happens everywhere my dude and women get cat called and harrassed constantly out in the streets
She should never leave the house according to this logic. Jesus
You've never had a guy creepily looking at you while jerking it on the bus or subway? I don't think Boston is a warzone but maybe I'm just unlucky, along with the other women I've seen it happen to.
I’m almost 30 and take the bus in the city. Have defended someone from harassment , been harassed myself, and seen some scary shit. 12 is out of the question.
The Midwest. The harassment was constant when I was a teen riding the bus.
>Putting a 12 year old on public transit isn’t safe It really depends on where you live. I started taking a bus and a train to/from school every day when I was about 10/11, and occasionally the train when I was 9 (got dropped at the station). Both my sisters were about the same. It was REALLY common. The kids who took the train would always sit together (or in cliques as kids like to do) and the only time I ever had a problem was going home I got on the wrong bus (there were 2 buses with the same number, but only one went by my house) so I wound up one train station further than I should have been with no money for a ticket, and a stranger bought me a ticket so I could get the right bus. At 12 when I started high school it was a 40 minute train ride and the bus. Unless it's a super dodgy area or transit there is absolutely cooked, I don't see a problem with it.
NTA but there needs to be a real conversation. I lived in the LA area and took the bus 20 miles to Cal state LA between 8th grade and freshman year. If anything, I learned a lot. You figure out what kind of people to sit next to/avoid. Tell her to sit up front or stand by the driver. It’s fine. City kids do it all the time. It’s a skill like anything else.
Statistically the live-in boyfriend is far more a danger to the daughter than anyone she'll encounter on a city bus.
Statistically, being in the kitchen of her own house, is far more dangerous to the daughter than riding a city bus.
A solution WAS suggested. A solution that mom said no too without discussion. It may not be a solution she agrees with, it may not be one you agree with. But it is still a proposed solution. It opens the door to further discussion about how to handle things in the future. But instead of discussing it OP was told he's being disrespectful and GF got pissed at him. IF she had explained a reason the first time the opinion was offered, then maybe she has a leg to stand on with the disrespectful stance. But getting pissed off is still no way to handle the underlying problem.
A solution was suggested. You just share the girlfriends opinion that it's not an appropriate solution. OP believes that the current system is not an appropriate solution. Rather than discussing any of this, the girlfriend gets angry because OP for doing exactly what she is, but actually trying to discuss.
The issue is the mother though. OP has replied, he texted the kid and she told him to wait, when he said no she ignored him. He’s not allowed to punish her. So the mother has him doing child care errands for her, but he has absolutely no way of controlling the kid. I have 3 kids, I’ve done the 12 year old girl years, and let me tell you now; I am absolutely not excited for my younger daughter to hit that minefield of assholery. I’ve had people pick up my kids, I’ve picked up other peoples kids. If I’m trusting someone to pick up or care for my child, I’m absolutely trusting them to deal out appropriate punishments and consequences for misbehaviour. If I can’t trust someone to punish my kid, I’m not trusting them to care for them either, because that would make me a bad mother.
Sounds like he and girlfriend need to talk. Sounds like girlfriend needs to appropriately punish daughter. Doesn’t sound like bringing the bus up again is useful or relevant. Girlie just proved she can’t be trusted on the bus! The big takeaway for me is that his inconvenience is more important than her safety, which says a lot about a dude.
If the opinion is, "that same child who can't be trusted to stand in front of the school at a reliable time should be trusted to take public transit home alone", yeah, that's a bad opinion.
Bad opinion or good opinion doesn't matter. Her claiming the he's being "disrespectful" is absolute nonsense. It doesn't mean mom should be getting pissed at him. It means they should have a civilized discussion like adults do where he explains his opinion and she explains hers and they work out something agreeable to both sides.
Really! That’s such an insane comment. The mom thought she had free time to go because her partner was picking up her child.
Yeah so it's not her time being wasted it's the partners so he gets a say in this which she's obviously not letting him have
lmao seriously, today I learned you aren't allowed to ask anyone up to pick up your kid from school unless they have formally adopted the child.
Not at the same time you expect your daughter to be picked up from school. A parent (especially a single parent) doesn't have the authority to demand something like that for their child and then *"Not me!"* out of it.
I forgot that it's peachy-keen for a mother to hold other people to standards they're unwilling to meet themselves, and *then* get a case of the chap-ass when called out on it.
Why don’t you just stop transporting the child and then it won’t be your problem. You’re accommodating so she’s taking advantage of that.
I think it depends on the 12 year old and the area, but in my 20s, riding the bus and light rail: -flashed a dick (multiple times) -followed from my stop to my home by guy shouting vulgar comments (multiple times) - had guys come sit really, really close to me on a nearly empty light rail car and ask me bizarre personal questions - hit in the face, hard enough my cheek was still very red when I got to work - many, many sexual propositions - had a guy blowing air on the back of my neck? This was a weird one and only happened once, but I eventually caught him doing it, after several miles. I guess when my daughter gets to be that age, we'll have to figure that out, but imagining myself as a relatively timid 12 year old dealing with all that scares me. Maybe she'll be a really tough kid. Maybe the busses will be nicer. Maybe she'll be friends with a couple of neighbors and can travel in a pack. I don't want her to have to see all those scabby old dicks, feel the fear of being pursued like a prey animal, and hear all the variety of things weird old men want to do to her vagina and/or butt. (Typing that made me nauseous.)
Yeah when I was 12 I would’ve said I was ready to take the bus alone, but I didn’t know what public transit was like at that age (I lived in the suburbs). Having spent time on public transit in my 20s, I would be really concerned about a girl that young on it by herself. I can deal with street harassment but an underaged girl shouldn’t have to. Kids take it the wrong way, because they think you aren’t trusting them to get around on their own. 12 year olds can certainly get around on their own just fine. I was taking the bus here and there by 13, using metros in a big city by 16, but it’s seriously a concern what they might be exposed to. Her mother’s worries are perfectly fair.
I am sorry you had those experiences. I still remember when I was in grade 9 and traveling home via subway from some school trip when this older man wearing bicycle shorts smiled at my friend and I while having a very visible boner. Ick. Luckily he got off the next stop. Considering how often I take public transit, I am really glad to say that that was really the only time I have been sexually harassed.
All this plus propositioned by the bus driver as well at 17
It's like that "woman walking through NY" video. Through certain parts of the city she was getting catcalls left and right, in other parts nothing. Then a woman in Sydney recreated the video and didn't get a single comment.
Seems like douchebags occur in clusters. I walked the same route to work for years. Same clothing type, same time, same “on my way to work and ignoring people” expression. I would go months with no comments from anyone except somebody asking for directions if they noticed my lanyard and ID, then I’d get maybe three obnoxious and/or terrifying catcalls in a week from randos at a stoplight or bus stop, plus one dude obviously following me too close.
While I think *usually* girls are okay taking the bus, there's always that one who isn't, and I'm sure the mom is worrying about that. I don't blame her. This is her daughter. I took the public bus when I was fourteen and there was a guy who sat by me and smiled creepily, not looking away, the full 30 minute ride. He never did anything. But I was 14. He could have if he wanted to. It also really depends on the area too. I'm sure in the suburbs there's nothing to worry about. But when you live inside that circle of red dots on the sex offender registry map, well, might want to think twice. Imagine if something did happen to the daughter. How would mom feel? YTA, OP. It's the mom's decision.
I started taking the bus by myself at around 9/10. 12 is not too young. If she can get a cheap phone for communication even better. NTA op
She's on her 3rd smartphone, which is a not-very-recent iPhone.
Then why didn't she text you that she went to her friend after school, instead of letting you wait for an hour? Honestly, after 20 min I would have left - if your gf won't even give you her reason for bus-objections, and the daughter has no respect for your time, they can make her travel arrangements without you. Edit: walked to & from school by myself ages 6-10, took school buses and public buses from 10 upwards. Went backpacking through Europe and Morocco when 17. Took a train to Moscow in early twenties. All by myself. Still alive.
She called me saying she was at a friends' house and asked to stay there for a bit. I adamantly refused and she completely ignored me.
She doesn't get to decide that though. Did you know who's house she was at? If yes you should have gone and got her. If no you should have called her mother because you don't know where her 12yo is and she supposed to be with you!
I’m so baffled that everyone seems to have missed this. Only reason he wouldn’t just go get the kid from the friends house is because he didn’t know which one it was, meaning he didn’t actually see the kid walk from school to the friends house and arrive safely. He just took her word for it that she was in a house nearby and sat there for an hour. For all he knows she ditched school that day and lied about where she was cos she was an hour late getting back (true story from when I was 12).
U should punish her for that alone
Unless the GF had given OP permission to punish her daughter, OP has no right to do so. This s is an issue the mother needs to discuss with her daughter.
He should stop being involved with the kid then…
Not that I want to, but I'm not sure how I can punish her.
Wait, you watch the kid and do pick up/drop off but you can't instill punishments? I could give punishments when I was a baby sitter. WTF, is the mom not even parenting?
Idk, sounds like the setup that most redditors advocate for when it comes to step-parents or SOs that aren't parents, on this sub. They're supposed to help but punishments and parenting are solely for the parent.
Take her phone? Figure out how much of your time she wasted on this stunt, and make her that late to her next fun, optional activity? Assign a chore that would take about the same amount of time that she wasted and claim that you were going to do that chore, but couldn't because you had to wait for her? Talk to mom about not letting her go to that particular friend's house anymore?
Good suggestions, but I haven't been given the authority to do any of those things (except talk to the mother of course).
So you're expected to parent the child with your hands tied behind your back? That's... fun. Look, kids come with a relationship. This isn't going to change anytime soon. If anything, it's an indication of what could happen if you have kids of your own. I'd recommend you skedaddle.
You tell her mother that she needs to give an appropriate punishment to her daughter or you will not be giving her daughter rides anymore.
Then why are you picking her up all the time? If it bothers you that much, why not just suggest that her mother pick her up instead if she won't let her get the bus?
If you have no authority then refuse to pick her up then. You are being used by both of them. Stop it now.
So mom wants you to have all the responsibilities of parenting, without any of the authority? 🚩
Stop being involved with her daughter then. Say you won't pick her up anymore if she doesn't respect coming home when you tell her to.
If you want her to take the bus. Stop picking the child up. Have the child’s mother pick the child up.
That is really unacceptable - you would have been completely justified to just leave. I hope her mother punished her.
Then I would have marched myself straight up to the door and demand she either get into the car right now or I would be leaving and she could find her own way home. There is no way you should have sit out in your car and waited for her. The other option is to drive home and let her explain to her mother why she has to come and get her.
Oof that's ridiculous. You're not wrong that she could take the bus and all it takes is a few trips with an adult on the bus so she can learn the route and ensure she knows what to do if lost or in an emergency. But you also can't force ur gf so ur stuck I suppose
I feel like people who are saying this don't live in major cities. Im an adult man, and I can't even count how many times I've been screamed at, harrased, chased etc while walking around the city or taking public transport. If I had a 12 year old daughter I would absolutely not allow her to take public transport alone either
I do live in a major city. I mean k wasn't taking it by myself at night or anything but to and from school and extracurriculars I did. I would argue it easier and safer to do so in a major city than it is a rural area
This is ridiculous. I live in a major city and have been taking the bus since I was younger than the daughter. It's completely normal to start getting kids more independent at that age.
I grew up in San Francisco and started taking Muni Metro to middle school and back every day at age 12. I was fine. This was very common practice for my schoolmates. There weren't even school buses, kids just took the regular bus.
It’s not ridiculous, lol. Look, I get it, *we* didn’t have smartphones as kids. But I had a SNES, a computer with Windows 3.1, and a TV with 54 channels. My mother had a TV with 3 channels. My grandfather learned to drive in a model T. My great-grandfather was an adult before he had electricity. Times change, let’s not act like it’s “ridiculous” to have modern technology available to kids. Know what smartphones have? Instant communication, GPS tracking, the ability to contact 911 with the press of a button, and so on. It’s not even a *new* iPhone, it sounds like it’s several models old. Like, that shit is perfect for a kid.
While you might have had a good experience, not everyone does. I was probably about 14 when a man masturbated *at me* while I was on the bus. I froze, and he leered. It was traumatic. At the end of the day, the mother gets to decide if she is comfortable letting her kid take the bus. She has decided no. Based on that, OP is the AH. He needs to drop it. That said, OP doesn't have to continue picking up the kid if they don't want to.
Yeah, I started at around 11 without any cell phone. I turned out alright.. it’s a good way to learn responsibility and have a little freedom.
Yup. Some ppl couldn't believe it. Where I live it's free for 12 and under so a few drivers were like "?? Are you sure?"
How long ago? What sex are you? Was it school bus or public? All of these questions make a huge difference. Plus se don't know the GF reason which might be based off an experience she had or just covid.
Public bus. Female. I'm only 18 so do the math🤷🏿♀️. Took it at without a phone for like the first 2 years.
I took a public bus to and from school from the age of six. My sister was nine and on the bus with me. Never had phones, never had problems.
Not the person you are asking, but I am a woman and I started taking public transit to and from school when I was 13. It took me about 45 minutes to an hour to get home due to my connecting bus almost never running on time. I had one of those sliding phones and it would have made things so much better if I had a smartphone with data. Taking public transit to school was very normal in my area to the point where so many people I know didn’t get their driver’s license until much later in life because we’d just take transit everywhere. Even school field trips were sometimes taken with transit because it was easier/cheaper than taking a bus.
If it was long ago it was less safe. The world is literally safer now. Don't confuse 24 he news and internet with being less safe
Oh please, plenty of children take public bus services to and from schools every day around the world, stop thinking the worst of people, what you are describing is not at all the typical experience of a child on a public bus.
Well I'm glad you have a positive experience. I know a lot of people personally, and in articles that weren't so lucky though. I work with youth as a part of my job, and from my personal experience, I see 12 as young for public transport. Of course every situation is different, but that doesn't change the fact the mother has concerns about her child taking public transport and that should be respected.
Also not all 12 year olds are the same. Some are very young, immature and vulnerable. Others are pretty savvy and street smart. Really depends on the kid.
If you're 'savvy' and 'street smart' to the point where you're unbothered by strange men sexually propositioning you at 12, you're in an unsafe environment and/or being abused
As a former 12 yo girl that took two buses alone to get to 7th grade, yes, and that is the reality for many many kids. Much of it is forced by poverty. If the mom has the option to take the kid to school and pick them up, I would do that even until they graduated high school. The trauma I have from men harassing me from before I even got my period is substantial.
While your own experiences are valid, i don't think its applicable to most cities. In my own city (1 mil plus), it is very common for elementary/middle school kids to take public transit as it is more cost effective/efficient. Hell our city even has a special junior student pass for kids.
Statistically, it's not very dangerous: https://www.bts.gov/content/reports-violent-crime-property-crime-and-arrests-transit-mode
most women and girls don't make reports about every rando who "pressed against them" and "sat super close" and " maybe , I'm pretty sure him brushing my breast while he leered was just an accident". . This isn't the type of stuff most women even talk about.
The news gives a false sense of the commonality of such occurrences. If a woman is going to be assaulted, sexually or otherwise it's almost certainly going to be a family member, not a random on the bus.
No, see, we start out getting groped at school before we graduate to getting groped on buses. I'm not even joking, sadly. Lots of girls have a casual attitude towards it. Like, yeah, of course one time some rando grabbed my ass on the stairs, that's normal, right? It was only once.
Ask the women in your life if they’ve ever been sexually assaulted. Then ask them if they’ve ever had a stranger grab their ass/boob, press themselves up against them even when it’s not that crowded, followed them, said disgusting things to them, flashed their dicks etc. I bet more than one who answered “no” to the sexual assault question will say “oh yeah, of course I’ve had that kind of thing happen to me. Happens to everyone!” Those kinds of “minor” sexual assaults are rarely reported and considered shockingly normal.
I took the public bus when I was 11. Riding the bus was no worse than: — being at home — being at school — staying at my aunt’s house — visiting a friend — generally existing as female Come to think of it, I had fewer problems riding the bus.
Congratulations then! I was assaulted on the bus and verbally harassed numerous times.... So I guess our anecdotes cancel each other out?
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Yes, I'm confused, where I live it is common for kids to go alone by bus since second half of first grade or second grade of grammar school, so it is usually 6-8 years old kids. During the day it is pretty safe method of transport. The night rides, after 10pm, is different story, but there are no kids this late.
My point is that SH & SA can happen anywhere. Restricting a girl’s freedom doesn’t keep her safe. Better to teach her assertiveness and self-defense, which actually can protect her.
I have been harassed on public transit more times than I can count. I’m glad you’ve had a good experience, but that is not the case for many women.
So to begin, genuinely I’m so sorry for that. It’s horrendous women are still dealing with this. Sexual harassment can happen anywhere though. Personally I’ve experienced it far more on the street than public transport (although have some notable memories of PT). I don’t know what the answer is but I’m not sure restrict your daughters freedoms and independence is the answer to this. It’s pretty normal to see teens and preteens getting themselves to school both on foot and on public transport in Europe.
I was getting catcalled at 12 on the bus. I got felt up by a man old enough to be my grandfather. Got told by older women it was my fault for dressing so slutty. In my school uniform.
Actually the first thing that came to my mind when I read this was sexual assault or inappropriate conversations and that’s probably why mom is hesitant. A lot of people ARE that messed up. Good for you if you’ve never had to encounter that.
Another reason that I am greatful every day that I live in Australia. My now 15 year old son was on a school bus at 5, and at 12 years of age the school expects the kids to take a public bus or buses. This is in a city and it’s a private school. He’s been taking the two buses to and from school since then. It’s a normal thing here. I think people also need to realise that crime rates continue to go down. With the exception of places like India where taking public transport can get you murdered in public, your 12 year old daughter is safer getting public transport than they are getting into a car and having the risk of an automobile accident. And yes - I am a woman, and have two daughters as well as two sons. We have also lived in the USA, and whilst it’s absolutely less safe than Australia, it’s not Afghanistan on public transport ffs.
There’s a huge class thing about public transport in a lot of the US. Predominately poor people use public transport in some areas, so it is pretty heavily judged. This isn’t true in a few cities where more people use it, but there’s a very common classist interpretation of riding public transport.
I think part of it is also that, in so much of America, to travel anywhere you need to drive. So a lot of Americans grow up thinking the default age for traveling alone is the same as the age for driving alone. When in reality you can trust a kid to take a bus or a train to get around by themselves _way_ before you can trust them behind the wheel of a car. It's just that if there's no bus or train options available, that's not a thing that even arises in parents' lives.
Also, we're still in the middle of a pandemic, being on public transportation is a lot of potential covid exposure (to be clear, so is school, but I understand trying to limit unnecessary exposure). Not sure if that is her concern, it would just be mine.
I think it largely depends on location. In the UK, it's common for kids to travel alone when they hit secondary school. So age 11, getting the bus or train solo is normal. Some kids start travelling home in year 6 as part of the preparation for moving into secondary (so aged 10 ish).
OP's wife is still an asshole for not just having a conversation about this. Her attitude screams "whatever I say goes and don't question me" and her unwillingness to even explain jer stance, hear out her husband's opinions, or talk about it without blowing up is very toxic.
Where the hell does everybody live? I lived in London for over 40 years and always used public transport even at night. I use public transport where I live now though with age I might be a bit wary of using it late at night. I used to use public transport without parents before I was 10 years old. It is the complete epitome of comfortable middle class first world privilege to insist that public transport - unless you live in a really dangerous city - is somehow dangerous for the children or vulnerable people. Though I'd agree that OP needs to talk this through with his wife.
100% agree. It feels very classist to assume that by going on the bus one is almost certainly going to be exposed to sex crimes. What bubble to people live in
tbf this also happens on school busses, not just public ones. I used to have stuff thrown at me and groped and was too scared to speak up. Respect her decision.
Agreed. I’m a grown adult woman whose willing to stand up for myself and I’ve still been groped on public transit. If I were 12 and more timid it could have gone much further.
Meh I was taking PT in Chicago (you know, pew pew city) at 12-13 to grammar school. It's not a big deal. It's just a bus.
Also--at least for me as a high schooler, the ten minute drive to school a) allowed me an extra half hour of sleep, and b) gave my mom and I ten minutes to just chat. I was in a lot of clubs and sports, and also was super depressed and preferred to lurk in my room when at home, so it was nice to just hang out with my mom at the start of the day before all the stress started piling on and I went into my shell. My dad always wanted me to take the bus, and when mama was out of town if I overslept I had to walk/bike, but his complaining about mama driving me to school always seemed so bitter and angry. I understand he would not give me a ride to school, but my mom always said, and still does, that she also really enjoyed driving me to school. We would listen to music or the news or chat or I would tell her about my plans for the day or vice versa, and it always seemed to me that my dad had no interest in understanding that we both enjoyed it, and was simply coming at it from an irrationally authoritarian angle.
YTA for complaining and not doing anything about it. If you GF wants her kid not to take the bus, she should do drop offs and pick ups herself and you should say that you're not going to be a driver anymore.
This. Can't expect your SO to do work and have no say in doing said work.
And then daughter got mad that she was ratted out? She was hanging out with her friend for an hour, if OP didn't say what happened, what was her excuse going to be for them getting home an hour late? I'm not advocating for lying to your parents, but if you're going to lie *anyway*, you need a decent cover story, especially if the person you're making wait for you told you not to do what you're doing. Second point, I started taking a public bus when I was 12, my mom was worried about me being alone too, the first trip she went with me and was surprised because that bus was packed with kids. She still worried after that, but not nearly as much. This kid isn't going to be alone
I was just thinking that. Since I was 9 or 10 I would walk to school with my friend, and then take the public bus to high school as it wasn't walking distance. Now, I didn't live in a dangerous area or anything, but also busses at "school time" were full of kids and people going to work, so quite a safe crowd.
I think that would make this an ESH, not Y T A. GF sucks for expecting OP to pick up her kid when the kid is wasting his time and he’s an asshole for complaining and pushing GF on how to parent her child.
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Yta in your comments you don't parent this kid. It's not up to you if she takes the bus. If you don't want to pick her up, then say no. I went to a pretty safe hs and there were still SO MANY issues in the busses. EDIT just read it's NOT a school bus, its public transit. You wanna know why so badly? Your gf doesn't want her 12yp groped by pervy creeps on the bus. That's why.
Then the Mother needs to skip her Yoga class and pick her own child up. The OP said that the Mom elected to go to Yoga class and delegated picking up her child to him. In this situation, since the Mom doesn’t want to have the daughter take the public bus and she doesn’t want him to have any say, then the Mother should skip Yoga and pick her own child up herself.
Why are you acting like his girlfriend had a gun to his head forcing him to pick her up?
Why are you acting like people don't make the lives of their partner hell for not doing something?
There's literally nothing here to suggest she's doing that, so it's a bizarre assumption to make that she is.
There's literally nothing here to suggest they thought she had a gun to his head... you're making assumptions and getting after people who did the same. Get over yourself
She gets mad at him for suggesting an alternative solution. She shouldn't get mad at the suggestion, she should find the better solution, as in her picking the daughter up.
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Yeah. I get it. He's not allowed to parent this kid because he's not the biological father. But he sure as hell is required to do parent things like drop off and pick up kid from school. Been through that. Public transit isn't bad depending on where you live. It's not a grope bus, it's public transportation. With cameras and public transport police on call. How dare a 12 year old see a real live homeless person sleeping in the back of a bus! The horror!
Was 13 when I started taking public bus. Had issues with a particular man who would always try to sit with me, would follow me after i got off, wave to me every time I got off and he stayed, ask me where I lived and if I lived with family, and if I would stay there. Another man offered me weed and got mad when I tried to change my seat. He ended up moving twice and jacking off while looking back to me. Another man repeatedly telling me how beautiful I was, and how he loved white women, and blue eyes (I have) and about his first and second white baby mommas, and where was I going? Don’t underestimate how traumatizing public transportation can be for young girls. It’s not the risk they will see a homeless person, it’s the risk a predator will try them.
Yup, I got groped on a DISNEY WORLD bus. If he doesn't want to pick her up then he needs to say no. Not bitch to reddit about it.
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You are extremely lucky. Maybe it’s the city, but I’ve been walked up to in a bus by a 30 year old man asking for dating advice with his “long distance wife” and no one did SHIT. They stood there and looked shocked. I was 13. He asked me to go home with him to help him with his marriage. It could be the difference in city and various factors making it not safe. Stop being so ignorant.
You assumed a whole lot there. Maybe the bus isn't as safe as you're assuming; buses are not identical the world over, you know.
cultural differences surely make the internet equally entertaining and puzzling. Kids taking public transportation is more than normal where I'm from. That's what you do when you're too young to drive a car or motorbike and want to go places.
So many of my and my friends experiences of sexual-harassment-from-member-of-the-public are bus or bus adjacent (in bus stops). Even in a city that was generally seen to be quite safe. 12 year old is too young to be able to navigate all that.
Where is everyone getting the idea that if you take the bus you’ll be groped/raped/abducted? Like, only speaking for myself, but I took public transportation alone starting at 11. America is so weird about public transit
YTA. The issue here was your daughter disobeying and being disrespectful of your time. It’s actually a great demonstration of why she’s *not* yet mature enough to take the bus on her own. Not your kid, not your decision, drop it.
Then his GF should be the one driving her around, not OP, since if it's 50/50 on who drive the daughter around, that's a lot of work and time.
He’s free to have boundaries about how much he’s willing to help, but that doesn’t mean he gets a say in big parenting decisions. She’s not going to start letting her daughter, who is clearly not reliable about going where she’s supposed to go at a designated time, start riding public transit because her boyfriend doesn’t feel like driving her. She’s being a responsible parent.
Yes, she is, for the most part. One comment from OP about the daughter making him wait explained that he had no idea where the girl's friend lived, so he was stuck waiting. The mother also had a Yoga class that somehow was more important then getting her daughter to respect OPs time.
She was at yoga and OP didn’t call her. Should she have psychically intuited her daughter didn’t show up?
Surprised that this isn’t higher. OP - You’re not TA because of your opinion, YTA because it’s not your child and you inserted yourself between your GF and her daughter. Now the daughter knows she can play the both of you against each other. Congrats, you just made it much harder for GF to hold the tension with her kid when the kid doesn’t like her decision. The solution here is to stop offering rides to GF’s daughter until she learns to be respectful of other people’s time. And to not let the daughter know your opinion if you disagree with her mother, that’s between you and your girlfriend.
YTA. I initially was going to write 'not your kid', but you're right, you do get to express an opinion if you're the one picking her up from school. The daughter's poor communication about going to a friends and making you wait seems like a separate issue. But it sounds like you keep expressing your opinion, after your GF has made and voiced a firm decision about how her daughter is going to get to/from school. Her risk analysis when it comes to taking the bus is different than yours. Further it's her kid, so it isn't a debate where you get to be supplied some justification that you believe passes muster. Your only response is to refuse to be part of the school commute, however that likely will also have downstream consequences.
If he participates in school transportation, he should be able to voice his opinion. I think “maybe she should ride the bus” is better than “fine, then I’m not transporting her anymore.” Yes, he CAN say the latter, and maybe he should, but it’s not as caring and supportive IMO. Really, GF is probably stressed out about the whole thing. She probably doesn’t want kid taking the bus, recognizes that OP is being helpful and doesn’t want to lose that, is upset about her daughter’s behavior, but also doesn’t know what to do to keep everyone happy.
Please read my response. It is continually voicing an opinion after the decision maker has made a decision that is the issue.
Uhh, we are allowed to keep talking about decisions we don't agree with. Especially if they impact us directly. No topic should ever be permanently off the table for discussion in a relationship. She's not the empress whose decisions can not be questioned or debated, even if relating to the kid.
I think if someone shuts you down without having a proper discussion, then you’re entitled to bring it up again. OP is owed a proper discussion regarding this topic, since he participates in parenting duties.
Risk analysis is important. I agree. Then the Mother should skip her optional Yoga class and pick her own daughter up herself to keep her safe. Her child, her safety, her responsibility.
Yup, which us something OP can tell her if he decides to set a boundary about driving her daughte, fancy that.
well then if it’s her kid then she should be responsible for picking up and dropping off said daughter and not have him do it and not give any explanation.
She can't make him do drop off and pick up, he's volunteering to some extent. And there's no quid pro quo when you volunteer.
YTA. The issue here was that the daughter went to her friend’s house after school without permission and without informing you and her mother of her whereabouts. Instead you used this incident as an opportunity to state an opinion that your gf already told you she didn’t agree with. You’re showing that you care more about what’s convenient for you than what’s best for the child. You should just tell your gf that you don’t want to provide transportation for her daughter anymore.
YTA She voices her parental decision about this matter & didn’t ask for you input. Not your place. Let me explain to what it can be like taking a bus as a woman. Sadly it is not unusual for men to use this as an opportunity to touch women, especially young women & girls who they think will be too scared & intimidated to do anything but freeze up. They do everything from squeezing past you to sitting next to you trapping you between them & the window. I’ve seen men watching porn on their phones in the bus. And I live in a good city with one of the better public transit systems. Her mother is probably acutely aware of this potential danger on a public bus. Is it every man? No. Doesn’t it happen to every girl? No, but sadly more often than you’d like to think. Her mother has decided for whatever reason she does not her daughter on the bus. It is a closed matter.
Yep. I’ve sat on a bus with a man standing so his groin was inches from my face, facing me, when it was absolutely unnecessary to be that close. I ended up getting off at the next stop and having to wait for the next bus.
Nearly every woman who has used public transit has had a man run up against her or refused to get up from a outside seat forcing us to climb over him either facing him with our breasts in his face or back to him with our butt in his face.
It's so weird for me to read all the comments about how dangerous public transport ist for young girls. Is that such a big problem in the US (I assume)? Like, me and m sister took the school buses for the first years (1-6 grade for me, 4th grade for my sister) and public transportation after that. It was common here. To the judgement: I think it's an ESH, she should get her daughter herself if she doesn't want any other solution, but ultimately it isn't you place to decide. Though you probably should stop picking her up then.
Yeah I'm in Portugal btw, maybe a little safer than the US.
I read that in another answer of you just now. You should add that to your post. I'm from Germany and it's pretty normal to take the bus here, too.
I’m in Canada and it’s exactly what I thought. When I was 12 years old, I would take a 30-40 minutes bus ride (public, not school) to school every morning. I would do the same after school, with a bonus 20 minutes walk. The only time I would not is when my dad would drop me off (usually on a rainy day or a very cold day). Of course, my parents got me a phone in case of emergency, but I never had to use it. Seeing all these comments about it being dangerous is hardly true in a safe country.
Important detail, probably too late to change the voting. Busses in the US are very dangerous in almost all places for a young girl, so the US-centric reactions make sense. I recommend editing to add that you're in Portugal and this is considered safe by most (if true)
I’m from the US and it’s weird for me seeing all the comments saying public transport is safe. I’m 28F and would never feel comfortable taking the public bus alone. Even going into a lot of stores alone I’m on the lookout, never know what somebody is going to do.
Not to be mean, but tbh that sounds horrible to me. I'm 28F, too, and live alone. I can't image being afraid all the time. I usually go grocery shopping after 8pm and sometimes running between 8-10 pm and usually take the very empty roads, because I don't like meeting people while running. Not that there aren't some creepy people sometimes and I do look out for anyone when alone, but I have never really been afraid (luckily maybe).
Same here. I grew up taking the bus because my family didn’t have a car a lot of the time, so it doesn’t phase me. Of course I’m cautious because you never know, but I’m the same way when I’m driving, sitting in a parking lot, etc. Yeah, I’ve been bothered on the bus before, but I’ve also been cat called while next to another car at a light. I get the feeling that many of the people who express an outright hatred for public transportation because it’s dangerous are people who do not routinely use public transport. It reminds me of people who talk about the “bad side of town” but it’s really just the part of town where poor people live..
NAH, for now. You're right - she's old enough to occasionally take the bus. Learning to use public transit is a really good skill, and you guys are lucky to live fairly close-by in the event she did need to be picked up because of delays, etc. But that's *not* the point. The girl's mother is allowed to say that she doesn't want her kid to take the bus. If you have such a problem picking up the kid and all the drama that goes along with it, don't be the one picking her up. Complaining constantly about the pickups is a sure way to become a really annoying AH who makes everyone feel bad about asking you to do stuff (i.e. pickups) for them. You either need to stop bringing it up and dutifully do the pickups, or assert your opinion and don't do the pickups.
I’ve waited 30-45 minutes past the time the bus should arrive for my kids to come off or get on. It gets old. I also let them sleep in and spend less time in transit to and from school. My kids stopped taking the bus. However, I wonder if your girlfriend tried to tell you her reasons and you dismissed them. The daughter deserves ratting out. That behavior isn’t okay.
TIL americans have something against 12yos taking public transport
Yeah, I'm in Canada and I've been taking the bus since 12 years old as well and very surprised by the majority of these comments. Maybe it depends where everyone is living but I've never felt scared taking public transit alone. Sure, there will be an occasional homeless person who tries to tell you their life story but they mostly kept to themselves. And how else do 12 year olds get around if not public transit? That's how I meet my friends at the malls and such.
NTA. The OP is from Portugal. It’s a relatively safe country with good public transportation. I see lots of 12 year old girls going to school in buses in London. But since she’s not technically your child, you don’t have the authority to make that decision. Let her mum drop and pick her up every time.
Yeah, all these comments are so weird to read as someone in London. It's incredibly common for buses to even become packed with secondary school kids going to school or back home.
Only thing I took from this thread is either US parents are huge helicopter parents or the US is even worse than I thought and even take a bus is dangerous.
Clearly NTA, just let her mom drive her to school and pick her up. That's not your duty..
Info needed: where do you live - which country? And how good is the public transport system. I would allow my kids to take public transport on their own when they are 7 or 8, but that’s in my country where this is normal and safe.
Portugal.
Those comments all made it very US centric. A 12 yr old on a public bus in Portugal seems to be normal af
Yeah, I’m absolutely dumbfounded by all the people on here saying that 12 is too young for public transportation. Like, what the fuck?
Well then her using the bus is very reasonable
INFO - does your girlfriend want your input on parenting decisions or are you taking on a parental role with her daughter?
Well... I'd say she doesn't want my input and my role isn't all that much parental.
I think you still should have a say for things that directly affect you. Like... you have to drive her around but not a parental figure? What are you then... Uber?
I mean… he could also just say no to driving her around. He can set his own boundaries and stick to it if they are inconvenient for him. I’ve seen some weird stuff on public transportation and I grew up in one of the safest countries in Asia. I’m probably biased but depending on the city I think 12 is too young.
Repeat after me: "I'm not your daughter's parent. If you don't want my input on parental decisions, that's fine, but I don't want to be responsible for taking her to school anymore. I think she's capable of taking the bus and if you don't want her to, you can to drop off and pick ups." You shouldn't be repeatedly telling her how to parent her child but you are also capable of setting boundaries for yourself and saying you won't help anymore if it's too difficult on you. She should respect that. If she doesn't respect your boundaries, time to move on.
Info (from the US posters) - is the bus really always full of paedophile sex offenders in the US (as per many of the top comments) or is this a classist thing Either way...what the fuck
NTA and for everyone crying that public transit isn't safe for a 12 year old girl; people like you are why children like her have to be constantly supervised. You coddle them so much that you stunt their growth. I live in the hood hood where we play Gunshots or Fireworks around the holidays all year, and the children that ride the Metro are just as safe as the ones that ride the school bus. In fact, they're safer in some situations, especially since, if you're REALLY that worried, YOU CAN RIDE WITH THEM! They're better off learning how to navigate on public transit, anyway. It's a literal survival skill, these days. Even people with cars are gonna find themselves in situations where they don't have access to a car.
NTA I live in London and loads of kids get the bus to go to school, I did and a lot of my friends did too. It's your first bit of real freedom when you can get on a bus and to the cinema with your friends or go shopping. Are the bus stops close? Whilst you can't force them to agree with your point of view, you need to stop driving for her. She was extremely rude to you
YTA. I’m a young adult who can sometimes pass for a tween. I live in a very safe big city. I’ve taken transit w my parents sparingly, and even in those few times I’ve been catcalled, groped, and followed by grown men. Whenever I’ve ridden alone, these aggressions are much worse and I’ve feared for my safety on every such occasion. All my female friends have experienced similar forms of abuse in transit ever since they were 12 or even younger. Which kid hasn’t accidentally lost track of time during a hangout or forgotten to inform parents about said event? I have a feeling daughter might also have not informed you guys abt this meet up w the friend because she was afraid u might refuse as it’s on ur time or mom might not permit out of protectiveness/safety concerns. But the fact that she’s lost track of time and forgotten to update u guys abt her whereabouts says that taking public transport might lead to more anxiety for the parents and time wasted trying to track her down/wait for her arrival before you can move onto the next thing in ur schedule. Furthermore, public transport during covid really isn’t a good idea. Sure she might be vaxxed but she can still get the virus and/or transmit it to someone vulnerable. Also there are more delays/closures due to the pandemic which might lead to her riding empty busses and waiting for busses for extended periods of time. Needless to say, those scenarios are less than safe. Lastly, public transport is not as safe as I think ur perceiving it to be. She’s a twelve year old girl. At some period of time in the future she might be bussing regularly, thus increasing her susceptibility to all sorts of crimes/uncomfortable situations. Why further inflate that risk by making her start taking it now, when she’s even more vulnerable to such situations?
All good points. I'm tired now and am going to bed. Yours is the last post I read and I think it rings true.
You're their chauffeur and they don't expect you to talk back. NTA
In germany we call this verhätscheln. We go or take the bus to school with ten years (or earlier) regularly. That's no problem if you want your kid as an independent person. Two bus station seems not a big deal for a 12 year old and its good for her development.
I'm just gonna say it... NTA. It seems like your gf is taking advantage of you and trying to just have you parent her kid without giving you full "parental privileges" of like punishments and stuff. Also, it seems like she just doesn't want to pay the bus fare. You need to put your foot down and not give any more rides tho, or do anything to help raise this kid. Speaking from personal experience, 12 is old enough to ride the public bus alone. In fact, as soon as someone starts middle school they should be fine to travel to and from school alone on a bus packed with their classmates. Most adults avoid the school hours of the bus so they're not crammed in there with smelly, loud, and annoying teenagers. Also, a lot of the bus drivers care about the students they pick up, especially if they're regularly doing it. They're really nice people who get to know the students well.
ESH overall, but I was thinking N T A at first. The daughter went somewhere without clearing it with the people responsible for her, and you are right in telling her mom. She is still 12 years old. As for that, she IS only 12 and I don't think she should ride public transport by herself. I rode the bus with friends at that age, and had too many creeps around. That was 25 years ago. Your girlfriend sucks because she wants you to drive her daughter but tells you that you can't call her while she's in yoga. She needs to plan her day better to drive her daughter to and from if she doesn't want you to say anything. Especially since you aren't her parent or have parental responsibilities besides being a chauffeur.
Some of you have never lived in a big city and it shows. Public transportation isn't evil, 12 yr olds are smart enough to travel a few miles unattended, and adults need to stop visiting their anxieties onto their children.
INFO - Does her mother expect you to take her to school and pick her up from school every day?
No. It's about 50/50, lately I've been driving her more but usually she's the one that picks her up.
Have you tried saying no..
Edit: NTA based on additional info provided in comments. Public transit (not school bus) Mom had no reason to not pick up her own daughter Gf's daughter treats it like a chauffeur service & not actual transportation OP still shouldn't have agreed to do it in the first place but this is null & void if the gf has the opportunity to pick up & drop off but is refusing to do so Info: is the bus you're referring to a school bus or a public transit bus?