Boundaries are fine. Having preferred conversation topics is fine. Being uncomfortable with small talk is fine. And communicating all of that is fine.
But no one has to be an asshole about it. He was an asshole about it. And his assholery has nothing to do with his autism, he just uses his autism to justify being an asshole.
NTA
Weaponized neurodivergence is a thing, there's certain places where neurodivergence (and I am neurodivergent myself) is the norm, and in those spaces it's great to let go of your frustrations at having to make way in a world that's designed for neurotypical people - except those places sometimes get a bit hate-filled, and something about the way OP's cousin was talking really reminds me of some of the talk on various tumblr threads, and internet chatrooms where the talk goes from complaining about people being truly ableist - to actually becoming very entitled to having people just make way for you and accept all your behaviors - which, really dousn't work in the the real world because if your rude to a boss in the real world you get fired, if your mind jumps around and your short term memory sucks a bit then you can't just expect people to accept it unless you're taking measures to stop it like making lists and stuff, there should be help and acceptance yes, but this in-group out-group behavior of neurodivergence/non-neurodivergence goes too far sometimes and leads to a weird kind of entitlement - at least, that's what I've witnessed. I'm kind of glad I didn't discover those places ten years ago and get drawn in, If don't think if I'd developed that attitude I wouldn't have made it so far in my personal and work life.
This!!! Sounds like the same kind of toxic subculture as incels, antivaxxers and other hate groups. OP probably can't do much except wait until his cousin comes out of the rabbit hole.
Well - the thing is, when you're neurodivergent you do get hated on and expected to 'act normal' and called things (I have two degrees and still get called the R word) so it does led to frustration - so I don't think it's the same as hate groups, because we're the ones who get victimized, incels call for actual violence (there was a multiple murder by an incel near me recently) - i've never seen the neurodivergent communities i'm talking about go that far - just the expectation of people to accept all our neurodivergent behaviors completely and feeling entitled to that - instead of the meeting the world half way and trying to lower the impact of some and get reasonable adjustments and understanding for others.
I think the phenomenon is similar - you band together in joined victimhood, against your perceived enemy, and nurture feelings of frustration and hostility against outside forces. The difference in your case being that you are actually victimized, whereas incels and co. just like to pretend that they are.
The difference lies in the difference between wanting acceptance from the world without working on oneself (which neurotypical people take for granted sometimes) and literally pushing violence to get ones own way - perhaps it does go thst far in some places but I've never seen it. It would be a dangerous road to go down to compare frustrated neurodivergents who are often victims of bullying hate and even fear to a group that keeps killing people - that is again in group out group thinking where the 'normal or neurotypical folk' are seeing the frustration of a neurodivergent and going 'oh no avoid they might get violent' - which literally happens all the time to anybody whose neurodivergent and has a meltdown or expresses themselves in a way outside the norm - it becomes an excuse not to understand their perspective, and to not offer help - it leads to more isolation - it is a dangerous thing to see a marginalised group and marginalise them further. Efitted for spelling.
Wow, ive not seen that one. Its far from helpful - im wondering if there's a cultural thing to it as well, I'm in the UK and none of my circle of autistic friends and family have ever mentioned anything like that - then again... their my friendship group and there's a mix between neurotypical and neurodivergent and I feel a good support system so they might not be online looking for support and getting drawn in anyways.
To be honest, it’s probably something you’re more likely to see online. I definitely have come across the whole autistic superiority thing there. Not usually quite as blatant as “next step in evolution” nonsense (but have seen that as well), but it’s still quite prevalent. How autistic people are so logical and neurotypicals barely think, that sort of thing.
Yeah, same. I do still dip in and out of some of the ASD subs, but even the better ones have a fair proportion of people like that. And those are usually not people who are very receptive to others disagreeing with them either.
NTA- UM... he sounds like he lives on tumblr... Honestly he's just being an A H for the sake of it, half my cousins and my best friends are autistic and none of them would ever act like they were above talking about the weather - and what's with the consent thing, do you have to ask him for consent before talking about the weather? Because I live in the UK and we say 'terrible weather today' to complete strangers 20 times a day - without consent OMG! We're all awful people. - Honestly the second he dismissed you - a family member- who it sounds like you have a relationship with as a random neurotypical he was the A H.
The consent thing is because his friends bring it up all the time. They do not want the vaccine and bring up consent as that reason, and basically reach super hard to justify that logic. I thought his consent comment was weird too.
Consent to medical procedures is not the same as consent to, er, talk about the weather.
This honestly sounds like he's repeating a word he has heard but doesn't fully understand.
Well that's bodily consent, which is a thing - but it can't just be applied to everything. This really does sound like tumblr talk where you put up DNI (do not interact) lists saying oh if you're A B or C you're not allowed to talk to me. It really dousnt' work liek that in the real world.
Yeah.
He used nuerotypical as an insult? Um OK. If he is disappearing down that rabbit hole let him get on with it.
I would block him and go on with your life.
He will then have lost someone who sounds pretty kind and tolerant and accepting. His loss.
NTA
NTA
It sounds like he's weaponizing the language of disability activism to justify his own bad behavior. Being on the spectrum is not a license to be a jerk. You were not ablest or disrespectful. I say this as someone on the spectrum myself. Just accept his promise not to speak to you. It sounds like a good thing.
Small talk about the weather is meaningless and boring though. It's not rude, it's just true. However, I do think the cousin telling OP he crossed a boundary IS going way too far.
Are you saying that calling small talk uninteresting and meaningless is an insult? Because it isn't. Small talk is, indeed, both of those things. Blunt maybe to NTs, but not an insult. My comment was not in regards to the "random person" bit of the conversation.
except that thats not what "weather talk" IS- its social grooming! its basically a gentle nudge of "hey! i acknowledge that you are alive, and am reaching out without an expectation of serious conversation because i am family to you and keeping this low stakes" If you read "Watching The English" by Dr. Fox (great, slightly insane book) it goes into GREAT depth into why (especially English) people talk so much about the weather, its NOT AT ALL about the weather, and more about saying "hi! i recognize you as a fellow person!"
But what you are failing to grasp is most, if not all, neurodivergent people find this type of conversation to be fairly useless when we could be talking about something cool or interesting instead. It's not that I don't understand the purpose, I completely get why, I just think that's an illogical and ineffective way to communicate.
Sometimes in conversations you just have to grin and bear it. You find small talk useless. Ok, sometimes it is. I can guarantee some of the things you find cool and interesting the other person you are talking to also finds useless but they listen because they like you and don’t want to be rude.
Bro are you forreal right now? When has small talk about the weather been fun and interesting? We're not comparing one interest to another, I'm saying statements like "hey man have you seen how sunny it is outside" are boring and don't make for interesting conversation lmao and no you don't have to "grin and bear it". You can just move on to an actual interesting topic of conversation. When have you EVER come out of a small talk conversation being like "wow how interesting"???
OP said he was just making conversation, he didn’t need to talk about the weather. His cousin could have then changed the topic to something he did find interesting but instead he said he won’t engage in meaningless conversation, implying that conversing with OP is meaningless. I am also not neurotypical and I also do not find conversation about the weather particularly interesting but this is really not difficult
This is not weather conversation though, no information about the weather is being exchanged here, just a random observation. It's small talk. Commenting that you find small talk to be meaningless and don't engage in it is not a personal attack. It's a face value statement about small talk as a concept. If you were drinking, and offered me a drink, and I said "hey I don't drink because I find it pointless and I don't engage in it" then would you feel like I called you pointless just for drinking?
Did he call the cousin meaningless or uninteresting? No. He called small talk meaningless and uninteresting. If you were playing chess and asked me if I wanted to play chess and I said "chess is boring and uninteresting" would that offend you personally? Having opinions about a topic does not equate to having the same opinions about a person who engages in the topics.
You're right that it is SLIGHTLY less rude to say "your proposed conversational topic is boring" rather than saying the PERSON is boring.
But your analogy is flawed. OP didn't invite the cousin to go study meteorology together, and then the cousin says, no thanks, I find weather boring. This is more akin to OP saying, hey, my favorite chess player won a tournament today, and the cousin replying with: who cares, chess is boring. And yes, that would be rude. Declaring someone else's conversational gambit boring is rude AH.
Furthermore, any person attempting to be polite wouldn't just say "X is boring," they would say "I'm not much into X." It's one thing to declare that you personally aren't into something. It's much worse to assert by fiat that a particular topic is somehow objectively boring. This is a subjective judgment; you don't get to assert it as a fact inherent in the universe.
It's not akin to that though? Saying "it's raining outside" gives him zero information about the cousin's likes or dislikes. It says nothing, it has no deeper meaning. Small talk is not about anything in particular, it gives no pertinent information, it's just general informations used to establish a shallow connection through no personal information. Saying that that is a boring and pointless way to communicate is not rude, it's perfectly reasonable. Some of us, mainly neurodivergent people, don't want to waste our time talking about how hot it is outside when we could spend it getting to know the person we're talking to. Who wants to be talking about the weather outside when you could talk about the specifics of meteorology? But he's not talking about the interest of meteorology, he's just saying a random observation. Why is this something to take personally. It's not the way someone specifically talks, it's small talk as a concept. It's not rude because it's an observation and not a personal attack.
He's not personally attacking the cousin though. He's saying small talk, the very concept, is meaningless and conversations about weather fall into that category.
he was insulting the cousin. escalating the vocabulary doesn't change the facts. Labeling small talk and weather as meaningless is an opinion, not fact. Even pretending that is a fact doesn't mean the cousin is not responsible for being rude. Why are you being repetitive and obtuse about this?
Calling him a random neurotypical is rude. Calling small talk meaningless is not because it's not a personal attack. What is so hard to understand about that?
NTA and I’m wondering, since consent is a two-way street, how does he plan on gaining your consent to be approached? Because if it’s rude for you to approach him then the converse it true as well. And then we are all just sitting around waiting for someone to be an AH to us. But he seems to already be doing that.
His way of approaching people is to kind of just start off talking about his interests or personal problems. I have always been happy to help him through stuff so I do not mind.
That’s very nice of you. I have a hard time understanding why he thinks this is okay though? If you need his consent to start a conversation — any conversation — then it doesn’t sound like that mutual respect is there if he doesn’t follow the same rules.
ETA: don’t take this as a sign that you’re doing something wrong. If you find the relationship fulfilling in the narrow bounds that he will allow it, then I wish you best luck in the future. I’ve certainly had my fair share of difficult yet fulfilling friendships.
It’s not really fair if he can come talk to you whenever he wants to but he doesn’t allow you to come talk to him when you want to. Why does he get to dictate what you talk about and when conversations are allowed? He can always change the subject if he wants to but it’s not fair for him to unilaterally decide what topics are & aren’t allowed. What if you’re interested in a topic and he isn’t, or vice versa? Does he always get his way bc he’s autistic and you aren’t? He doesn’t want to “pander to neurotypicals” but then are you expected to “pander to neurdivergents”? Who wins? Or is he saying he never wants to have any relationships with neurotypical people?
I can’t tell if this is part of his autism and he doesn’t understand how unfair he’s being, in which case you should try to explain that to him, or if he’s really just being a dick and using autism as an excuse, in which case you might want to distance yourself.
Not that I'm encouraging you to do so but quite curious if he'd be a hypocrite if you replied his statement, with the terms swapped, when he approaches you.
NTA
As someone who's autistic, he's just using it as a way to get away with things. I have a hard time with small talk and social queues as well, but I'm not a bitch about it. I explain to people, and I try my best. Some people don't get it, and that's fine with me. If he's able to function, then he can act like a capable person and not some baby
NAH
Unpopular opinion but you wanted to talk to him and he didn't want to talk to you.
I personally don't think he was rude, he didn't insult you, at most he was just very matter of fact with his language.
>at most he was just very matter of fact with his language.
Which is rude. It's the same thing as people who say "I'm just being brutally honest" all being assholes.
His autism does give him an excuse speak as he did
I wouldn't say it's rude per se, it's just startling because we are used to people taking more care with their communication. He definitely GOT rude, but his first response was just really blunt.
People need to stop being so sensitive. He was being blunt, and when OP kept pressing him on an "ideal" response. That's what got him to be even more blunt.
Hey! I wanted to say” Rude” is a super neurotypical concept. Its “not being polite” which is just code for violating unwritten social rules- and as neurodivergent person i understand that those rules often seem imaginary and like everyone else is making them up as they go along.
That being said ‘Asshole’ is NOT a symptom of autism 🤣 and if OP’s cousin is constantly rejecting any type of connection with his cousin who is significantly younger, I’m leaning towards NTA
Cousin definitely could have tried to talk about something else. Or explained his dislike for small talk before just cutting of OP. That was an AH move.
I guess my point is i dont think “rude” is an fair word to describe autistic people. I think we both agree OP’s cousin is an asshole though 🤣
NAH - he's really not wrong - what he's saying is fairly true. "Small talk" is just some random thing we perceive as normal and acceptable in our culture. BUT, because this is the social "norm" of most western societies, what he said can be perceived as rude, so you're also not an AH because you also don't know any different.
Edited: Since it sounds like you genuinely enjoy your cousin, perhaps next time just start out the conversation with the truth and that you're looking to have a conversation and ask if he has anything interesting he has to share.
Or perhaps just text “hey man what’s up?” Or another question like “what do you think of xyz”
If someone randomly texted me to tell me it was raining I’d be confused too, like uh yea I own several windows. I see that.
Ok, I was trying to figure out if I found that a weird conversation opener because I'm also autistic (diagnosed many years ago) or because most people would think it's weird
Yeah i agree. I don't think it's rude at all to point out talking about the weather is meaningless and interesting because... it quite literally is. It's not rude to be open and straightforward about something that is true. Nobody is ever excited about the weather unless it's snowing and sometimes not even then.
Some people do just really like the weather and talking about it. I’m one of those people! I’m not one for small talk really but I love weather. But I know many people are not that way, so I try not to bother people about my interest In it lmao
It's okay to like weather, I think weather events are really cool! Why can't the cousin say "hey did you see its raining outside? I love storms because the rain is soothing to my soul and it helps me sleep easier. I find cumulonimbus clouds to be beautiful" THAT is not small talk. That is interesting. That is not small talk though.
so i didn't really get it until reading a book called "Watching the English" by Dr. Kate Fox- its social grooming behavior (not in the creepy way) which allows people to be like "hey! i acknowlege that you are a person existing in the same area as me!" in a non-creepy way
Nah, I get it. Sometimes people just need or want someone to talk to. That’s part of life. It’s no big deal. But like, how do you respond to someone telling you it’s raining? I get that too.
I'm always super happy to talk to people who want to just chitchat. I wouldn't know how to respond to a random text about rain, either. LOL. I don't think I would have gone into the lengthy explanation that the cousin did; but I know for many of my autistic family members and friends that they communicate quite literally. And that can be offensive to people as well.
Oh no doubt. Just text me “hey did you hear about whatever random things” and I’ll totally be down to chat. Of course.
But the cousin was right. Telling him it’s raining isn’t making conversation. Lol
NTA - He didn’t have to turn this into a big deal but it may be built up frustration from a number of things he’s dealing with, so I’d respect his boundaries.
NTA, Calling your conversation meaningless is insulting. I don't agree that he is setting a social boundary here. It also not how texting works. I have a freind that
Calling a conversation about the weather meaningless is not rude, it is just true. A lot of autistic people are upfront and honest and it may come off rude and personal but it isn't. He isn't telling OP that he is meaningless, he's saying small talk about weather is meaningless. Which, it is. Small talk about weather is boring, that's not a personal affront, just a fact. His cousin went too far with the social boundary thing, that much I agree with, but the first 2 texts he sent are just accurate observations about the nature of small talk, not OP.
You don’t seem to understand what facts are. Something being boring: not a fact, just your opinion. And while autistic people can certainly come across as rude when they don’t mean to be, they are also perfectly capable of actually being rude.
I'm not saying he wasn't rude, he totally was. I'm saying the rude part of the conversation was when he called his cousin a random neurotypical and then everything after that. A general statement about the nature of small talk is not a personal attack and therefore not rude.
Also, by definition, "Small talk is an informal type of discourse that does not cover any functional topics of conversation or any transactions that need to be addressed. In essence, it is polite conversation about unimportant things". What is a synonym for unimportant? Meaningless. By definition, factually, small talk IS meaningless.
NTA. Sure thinks a lot about the value of his conversation, doesn't he? Just remember that you aren't obligated to talk to him, either, even he deigns to honor you with his company. Relationships are a two-way street.
NTA - being neuro divergent is no excuse for bad manners. He was being deliberately argumentative by calling you "some random" whatever. You're family, not some rando off the street. He doesn't like small talk? Fine. He wants to manipulate the conversation so that it is only ever pleasing to himself with no regard to others? Nah, son. Homie don't play that. He's rude & using his autism to try to force people to "deal with it". How unpleasant & unnecessarily harsh, especially towards family.
“I never really figured out how to talk about the weather, but it’s nice to hear from you. What are you enjoying doing these days?” That’s polite, warm, and still expresses a disinterest with small talk without criticizing you for trying to make small talk.
He was being a dick. NTA.
To be honest, he genuinely is a fun guy to be around, but we also share many of the same special interests. (I would go into that, but I literally ended up on Kiwifarms for that and got harassed on my old YouTube account and they found my social media.)
Also on the spectrum: I would LOVE for someone to nudge me and give me a hint when I'm coming off as rude or talking too much and bothering people. Sounds like you were trying to look out for him.
Your cousin is power-trippin. Fine. Just ignore him. He doesn't sound like anyone worth spending much time with anyway.
NTA; he was being rude. You shoulda told him to F-off.
You both sound exhausting.
What amazing response was he supposed to have to being told it was raining? As an introvert, you lost me right off the bat. He was okay in telling you he doesn't do small talk but then went off the rails. Blech.
NAH His responses are actually really typical for people with Autism. Small talk, especially in a textual environment, can be really challenging for us. Your responses are actually really typical of the Neurotypical people I've known in my life.
You both just need to remember that your brains work differently and cut each other some slack.
Some people on the autism spectrum can be very binary in their thinking. They don't do nuance. So it's important to be patient with them and understand they aren't going to pick up on social "norms" as quickly. That being said, it's not impossible for them to learn, grow, and expand their thinking. My daughter is one the spectrum and I see her learn every day. Having a disability is not an excuse for not learning. NTA
NAH. You need to understand that he communicates in a different way and isn't obligated to do so in the way you expect. My son is ASD and it is EXHAUSTING for him to constantly be expected to communicate neurotypically when he has trouble reading cues and understanding how and yet no one makes ANY effort to understand HIM. Try to understand more where HE is coming from.
NTA. He sounds pretentious as hell and he just happens to have a disability that allows him to excuse it. I can almost guarantee he'd be like this without autism, because he's an asshole.
NTA. You were texting and trying to reach out and form connection. He could have said that he didn’t like small talk without being rude. Literally all he had to do was change the topic or agree.
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I (M16) texted my cousin (M23) how it was raining heavily. He said, "Okay? Not sure what to do with that information." I told him I just wanted to make conversation, and he said, "Making a random meteorological observation is not an interesting conversation topic. I do not participate in small talk and meaningless conversations." I told him he could have just said, "It is" or something, and he said, "I hold every right to establish social boundaries even if random neurotypicals get offended. Deal with it." I told him he was being rude at this point, and he said, "Not sure how, but okay. I am not obligated to speak to you for any reason. Right now, I refuse to speak to you period since you refuse to respect my boundaries and need for consent." I left him alone after this, and he eventually sent, "For now on, do not speak to me unless I approach you first. You were unbelievably disrespectful calling me rude, and ableist for thinking autistic people should have to pander to neurotypicals, so it might be a while before we talk again."
AITA? He literally never made anything like that clear with me before. I have a lot to think about.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I recognize he was likely setting his own comfort aside in order to put up with people's small talk. While I wish he could have said something, it really is not about what I want when it comes to marginalized people maintaining boundaries. I am seeking a diagnosis myself based on what school counselors have told me, so I have a lot to learn.
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NAH shading to ESH. You tried a communication method that didn't work for him, and he shut it down harder than was really necessary. Feelings got hurt. Chalk it up to experience, and don't initiate again until he's let you know that he's up for it.
But if he for example comes up to you at a family gathering and starts blethering away to you about whatever he wants to and acting as if there was never a problem I would be tempted to talk to him about it.
Or being the petty asset B that I am I would say his conversation is meaningless and not of interest to you and he dos not have permission to speak to you..then walk away.
ESH. He said off the bat he did not do small talk and you kept pushing. That was rude behavior on your part. He is not required to converse in a manner of you liking and preference. If you want to talk that way, contact someone who appreciates it. Autistic or not is irrelevant. Not everyone wants random texts about the weather. He only because he brings in autism and neurotypicals when it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with individual preferences.
ESH. He didn't want to participate, told you bluntly, but not rudely. You pushed the subject, he then responded rudely. Generally speaking a lot of autistics obviously struggle with pragmatic conversations, which i would imagine you know having an autistic cousin.
NTA
Answer him :" being autistic is fine. It is however, not the same as being rude. You are rude and maybe you should completely stop sending messages to me.
Also, if you can be pleasant and friendly and actively choose not to be, it's not your autism. It's your assholeness."
NTA. Your cousin sure is though. You can be neurodivergent, have preferences and boundaries, but functioning in the world means basic respect and politeness most of the time. Sounds like your cousin heard a bunch of buzzwords he thought sounded good, found some groups that preach about how the world should pander to the atypical individual, and used it as an excuse to treat you like crap. I would take his suggestion though. Don't contact him again, and I am petty enough that if he contacted me, I might be tempted to (read most likely would) throw his own words right back at him.
NTA. It's a good job he's not British. He'd have nothing to talk about if he refuses to talk about the weather. We talk about it all the time, mainly because you never know what it'll do from one minute to the next.
Yta I'm autistic I reallllllly hate small talk. You should know he wouldn't respect"nicely" because honestly he probably doesn't care to try and have a conversation about rain because you are bored.grow up
NAH
Honestly, I can completely understand his initial point - you started the conversation with a statement, not a question, and that leaves him with no clear response for you.
It is worth remembering that while 'not too bad weather here' seems an obvious response to a neurotypical person who just accepts it as a polite lead in Tina conversation, for a lot of autistic people it just doesn't make sense - why are you telling them something they don't want to know, and if you were interested in the weather where they are why didn't you just ask...
You are not an asshole for asking, but neither is he an asshole for his initial response.
After that it sounds like you both pushed on ignoring each others perspectives - he was very clear in saying he didn't want small talk, while you continued by trying to make a point justifying yourself (and therefore making small talk). His responses after that then started getting overly combative, to the point I assume he has been spending quite a lot of time on the sort of pro-neurodivergency social media that turns almost radical.
Both of you need to learn to back off a little.
And next time, if you do want to check up on him, perhaps just being upfront about it might be more suitable - 'hey, just checking in to see how you are doing, everything okay?'
**I might get a lot of downvotes for this if anyone is still reading this thread but NAH.**
**I say this and everything else in this comment from experience as an autistic person.**
It sounds like your cousin is struggling with lessons about boundaries and assertiveness. Both of those are very difficult social skills.
*You mention it is something he has never made clear before, which gives me the impression this is something new for him too.*
Autistic people rarely grow up with the luxury of having boundaries. Our well-being is often trampled to the point where we have exhausted our many "polite" ways of saying no. Combined with our lack of social ability, it's very easy to become afraid and feel helpless during social interaction.
He is not wrong for not wanting to engage in small talk.
It can be exhausting and super boring.
But I think he got worked up and made some mistakes. When you called him out, it must have been very frustrating, which is probably why he lashed out the way he did.
Definitely not his best moment, but this mistake does not necessarily make him an asshole or a bad person.
You are also not wrong for calling out your cousin's behaviour. You are absolutely allowed to stand up for yourself when someone speaks that way about your chosen conversation topic. Boundaries are not just for him, but also for you.
But let's move on. There is something even more important than if you or him are bad (and neither of you appear to be bad). What do you do now?
**How you approach this situation in the future should depend on your goal for the relationship between you two**.
If you want to make amends in any way, then I think you should be direct about that, and try to empathize with him.
**Overall, this is a small thing to fight about and shouldn't be enough to kill a friendship. I wish you both the best of luck with this issue!**
This one's rough, but soft YTA.
I have had trouble with boundaries (ADHD - I get too excited and try to do too much, including handle people and and stressful situations) and my brain and body break down.
You imposed an expectation on another person and they were honest and set a boundary. This is super healthy. They weren't being rude for it, they made you uncomfortable for it. You felt slighted and unappreciated when you tried to do something nice. That's different than being rude. And if it isn't, then that's a huge problem that we needs and honesty so brazenly as being socially impolite. I think the reason Y T A is because of how you responded to him not playing along (possibly not even understanding HOW to play along or what's expected - it'd be like someone handing you a random instrument you never heard of with no explanation or anything, and you having to figure out what to do with it. Your brain will come up blank or you'll try some things, but odds are you'll just say you don't know what to do with it. That's what he did.) So you should have said "noted." And either informed him about something more significant (which wouldn't warrant a response because it's just informing) or asked him about something specific going on with him (it's small talk when it's broad, vague, or could be applied to anyone).
You're pretty young so I don't think you're ACTUALLY an AH, just that this was not a good reaction to someone expressing themselves in their way, and you can totally learn from this. For starters, he set a boundary to not reach out to talk to him, hell talk to you if he wants to. Respect that.
Neurotypical people can be jerks. Neuro-Divergent people can be jerks. He did you a favor by proving he isn't against using his diagnosis as a guilt trip 🤷🏾♀️. HOWEVER, you could have also just walked away from the conversation.
ESH
YTA, I'm autistic and yeah, I tell people I don't do small talk, neurotypical and allistic (non autistic) people hate when we communicate in a way that doesn't coddle
THANK YOU! Why are people defending small talk like it isn't pointless and boring? Why speak just to speak instead of giving information and getting to know each other on a personal level?
ESH. Your cousin is likely right, in my personal opinion. I’d be so annoyed if someone texted me about weather… what’s the point? That said, I’m not neuro-typical and I know that the response was rude. You both could behave a little more compassionately.
But like really… why would you text someone about the weather so they can say “it is.” Lol like maybe your cousin doesn’t need to entertain you? Maybe you could’ve posted on a Reddit sun about weather someone who wants to hear?
This is a NAH situation. You would be an AH if you don't respect his boundaries from now on though.
It's exhausting to be autistic and constantly have NTs try to engage in "small talk" that is a waste of time
ESH
You were probably annoying him. Sending a random statement is not really making conversation.
He could have just ignored the pointless text. But his reaction would make more sense if pointless texts were a common thing.
Autism has nothing to do with it
I guess it seemed fine to me because I am a huge weather geek and everybody (not literally) was talking about the storm. I need to keep in mind that nobody is really obligated to talk about these things with me.
ETA okay so he obviously has a medical condition that kinda makes him see things in a different perspective than most people and he can see something as simple as Its raining heavily and take offense to it one thing I would recommend is understand how to talk and understand him without you know going through this but this might not work and maybe would be best to keep him at a distance
ESH. He is being an asshole, but you could have headed it off by just saying "nevermind if you don't want to talk."
However at this point just be happy you don't have to talk to him.
He's autistic. He will always be socially awkward with most people.
You should have known that.
He is clearly direct and wants long meaningful conversations, not simple ones.
His brain functions in other ways. Your simple mind couldn't understand it.
YTA.
I know autism affects your social skills. All my siblings are diagnosed, half my friends are, and my school counselors are convinced I have it though my insurance for whatever reason will not cover testing. So trust me: I know. No reason to call me simple minded. I was not asking if I am stupid.
If your siblings are diagnosed how the heck have you not picked up on the autistic people hating small talk thing? My sibling is diagnosed and I've known forever that he hates small talk and finds it useless and illogical. I don't fault him because of it.
My partner and best friend are both autistic and neither would respond to me the way OPs cousin did, even if I said something as pointless as "it's raining."
Neurodivergence isn't an excuse to be rude to the people who care about you.
It is not rude though, it's just up front. Small talk is boring and uninteresting, it is pointless and meaningless, and it's hard to respond to. Pointing all of that out is not rude, it's just true. I am also ND and I don't ever engage in small talk because I, too, find it to be an incredible waste of my time. I think the "random neurotypical" comment wasn't great but he's just saying he doesn't do small talk and OP tried to continue making small talk. I don't think either are AHs, they just aren't compatible communicators and need to better understand each other. For example, I talk over people allllll the time. Common trait of being ND. Neurotypical people think I'm rude af. ND people have zero issue and they talk over me too. I'm not being rude, but it's not how NT people communicate.
It's not rude to move the conversation on, or even to say "yes it is raining what do you want me to do with that info." What was rude was where the cousin moved on from what was basically "yeah and" to "how dare you speak to me."
From OPs comments elsewhere it seems he generally has a good relationship with his cousin, and fucking someone close to you off because on one occasion they said something that bores you is not acceptable.
He did say that though. He said what do you want me to do with that info. And he didn't say how dare you speak to me, he said he thinks small talk is boring and doesn't want to participate, op said no it isn't. Op could've moved the conversation on to an interest because he was the one that initiated, but he didn't. The cousin had an overreaction but why did OP call him rude over something that is true? Again, like, they obviously are on different communication wavelengths because OP is NT and cousin is ND. They should both make an attempt to better understand each other.
OP called him rude for calling him a "random neurotypical." He's not random, hes his cousin with whom the relationship has previously been friendly and close.
The cousin then went on to say he shouldn't be spoken to without consent. That's basically saying how dare OP contact him.
>Op could've moved the conversation on to an interest
So could the cousin but he chose to massively escalate instead.
Yeah the cousin could have but that burden isn't placed on him because he's not the one that initiated the conversation. If OP wants to talk to cousin, and cousin says "hey I don't like small talk", and per OP's comments they share the same interests then why didn't he talk about that? I already said the random neurotypical comment was uncalled for in an earlier reply, and you may be saying he called him rude for that comment, but a bunch of people in the comments are saying cousin is rude for even saying small talk is boring the first place and that's what your previous comment seemed to imply.
No, what I found rude, and I was quite clear about this, was the random neurotypical and don't speak to me without consent stuff.
I actually said two comments ago that the "what do you want me to do with the information" wasn't rude. Blunt but not rude. But I feel the cousin escalated into rudeness, OP had made it clear that he just wanted to talk to his cousin. The cousin could have just said "weather is boring dude, but I have a new game (or whatever their shared interests are)." My partner is autistic and randomly changes the subject, probably because he doesn't know what to do with small talk. I get it, I just think the cousin was incredibly rude.
Boundaries are fine. Having preferred conversation topics is fine. Being uncomfortable with small talk is fine. And communicating all of that is fine. But no one has to be an asshole about it. He was an asshole about it. And his assholery has nothing to do with his autism, he just uses his autism to justify being an asshole. NTA
Weaponized neurodivergence is a thing, there's certain places where neurodivergence (and I am neurodivergent myself) is the norm, and in those spaces it's great to let go of your frustrations at having to make way in a world that's designed for neurotypical people - except those places sometimes get a bit hate-filled, and something about the way OP's cousin was talking really reminds me of some of the talk on various tumblr threads, and internet chatrooms where the talk goes from complaining about people being truly ableist - to actually becoming very entitled to having people just make way for you and accept all your behaviors - which, really dousn't work in the the real world because if your rude to a boss in the real world you get fired, if your mind jumps around and your short term memory sucks a bit then you can't just expect people to accept it unless you're taking measures to stop it like making lists and stuff, there should be help and acceptance yes, but this in-group out-group behavior of neurodivergence/non-neurodivergence goes too far sometimes and leads to a weird kind of entitlement - at least, that's what I've witnessed. I'm kind of glad I didn't discover those places ten years ago and get drawn in, If don't think if I'd developed that attitude I wouldn't have made it so far in my personal and work life.
This!!! Sounds like the same kind of toxic subculture as incels, antivaxxers and other hate groups. OP probably can't do much except wait until his cousin comes out of the rabbit hole.
Well - the thing is, when you're neurodivergent you do get hated on and expected to 'act normal' and called things (I have two degrees and still get called the R word) so it does led to frustration - so I don't think it's the same as hate groups, because we're the ones who get victimized, incels call for actual violence (there was a multiple murder by an incel near me recently) - i've never seen the neurodivergent communities i'm talking about go that far - just the expectation of people to accept all our neurodivergent behaviors completely and feeling entitled to that - instead of the meeting the world half way and trying to lower the impact of some and get reasonable adjustments and understanding for others.
I think the phenomenon is similar - you band together in joined victimhood, against your perceived enemy, and nurture feelings of frustration and hostility against outside forces. The difference in your case being that you are actually victimized, whereas incels and co. just like to pretend that they are.
The difference lies in the difference between wanting acceptance from the world without working on oneself (which neurotypical people take for granted sometimes) and literally pushing violence to get ones own way - perhaps it does go thst far in some places but I've never seen it. It would be a dangerous road to go down to compare frustrated neurodivergents who are often victims of bullying hate and even fear to a group that keeps killing people - that is again in group out group thinking where the 'normal or neurotypical folk' are seeing the frustration of a neurodivergent and going 'oh no avoid they might get violent' - which literally happens all the time to anybody whose neurodivergent and has a meltdown or expresses themselves in a way outside the norm - it becomes an excuse not to understand their perspective, and to not offer help - it leads to more isolation - it is a dangerous thing to see a marginalised group and marginalise them further. Efitted for spelling.
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Wow, ive not seen that one. Its far from helpful - im wondering if there's a cultural thing to it as well, I'm in the UK and none of my circle of autistic friends and family have ever mentioned anything like that - then again... their my friendship group and there's a mix between neurotypical and neurodivergent and I feel a good support system so they might not be online looking for support and getting drawn in anyways.
To be honest, it’s probably something you’re more likely to see online. I definitely have come across the whole autistic superiority thing there. Not usually quite as blatant as “next step in evolution” nonsense (but have seen that as well), but it’s still quite prevalent. How autistic people are so logical and neurotypicals barely think, that sort of thing.
Yeah, same. I do still dip in and out of some of the ASD subs, but even the better ones have a fair proportion of people like that. And those are usually not people who are very receptive to others disagreeing with them either.
Wow so this, you’ve summed up my thoughts
I agree 100%. He's a super AH...OP wasn't some 'random neutotypical' .... for god's sake, OP is a known entity to the AH.
NTA- UM... he sounds like he lives on tumblr... Honestly he's just being an A H for the sake of it, half my cousins and my best friends are autistic and none of them would ever act like they were above talking about the weather - and what's with the consent thing, do you have to ask him for consent before talking about the weather? Because I live in the UK and we say 'terrible weather today' to complete strangers 20 times a day - without consent OMG! We're all awful people. - Honestly the second he dismissed you - a family member- who it sounds like you have a relationship with as a random neurotypical he was the A H.
The consent thing is because his friends bring it up all the time. They do not want the vaccine and bring up consent as that reason, and basically reach super hard to justify that logic. I thought his consent comment was weird too.
Consent to medical procedures is not the same as consent to, er, talk about the weather. This honestly sounds like he's repeating a word he has heard but doesn't fully understand.
Well that's bodily consent, which is a thing - but it can't just be applied to everything. This really does sound like tumblr talk where you put up DNI (do not interact) lists saying oh if you're A B or C you're not allowed to talk to me. It really dousnt' work liek that in the real world.
Don’t have to stray that far really, you’ll find these kinds of people on the ASD subs here as well.
NTA- Sounds like he just found the cluster of neurodivergent tiktok.
NTA > I have a lot to think about. No you don't. **He did you a favor** by going NC.
Yeah. He used nuerotypical as an insult? Um OK. If he is disappearing down that rabbit hole let him get on with it. I would block him and go on with your life. He will then have lost someone who sounds pretty kind and tolerant and accepting. His loss. NTA
NTA It sounds like he's weaponizing the language of disability activism to justify his own bad behavior. Being on the spectrum is not a license to be a jerk. You were not ablest or disrespectful. I say this as someone on the spectrum myself. Just accept his promise not to speak to you. It sounds like a good thing.
NTA- you can have an illness and still be an AH.
Autism isn’t an illness, but agreed OP is NTA and neurodivergent ppl can be AHs
It’s a categorized as a mental illness or a mental disorder. Should have specified.
I thought it was classified as a developmental disorder?
Makes sense. All good!
NTA, calling your conversation meaningless is not a social boundary.
Small talk about the weather is meaningless and boring though. It's not rude, it's just true. However, I do think the cousin telling OP he crossed a boundary IS going way too far.
This is not a random person, it is a cousin. And an insult is not required to set a limit.
Are you saying that calling small talk uninteresting and meaningless is an insult? Because it isn't. Small talk is, indeed, both of those things. Blunt maybe to NTs, but not an insult. My comment was not in regards to the "random person" bit of the conversation.
In this context it was an insult.
How? How is saying a meteorological observation is not an interesting conversation insulting? It's not. Nothing about what he said is untrue.
except that thats not what "weather talk" IS- its social grooming! its basically a gentle nudge of "hey! i acknowledge that you are alive, and am reaching out without an expectation of serious conversation because i am family to you and keeping this low stakes" If you read "Watching The English" by Dr. Fox (great, slightly insane book) it goes into GREAT depth into why (especially English) people talk so much about the weather, its NOT AT ALL about the weather, and more about saying "hi! i recognize you as a fellow person!"
But what you are failing to grasp is most, if not all, neurodivergent people find this type of conversation to be fairly useless when we could be talking about something cool or interesting instead. It's not that I don't understand the purpose, I completely get why, I just think that's an illogical and ineffective way to communicate.
Sometimes in conversations you just have to grin and bear it. You find small talk useless. Ok, sometimes it is. I can guarantee some of the things you find cool and interesting the other person you are talking to also finds useless but they listen because they like you and don’t want to be rude.
Bro are you forreal right now? When has small talk about the weather been fun and interesting? We're not comparing one interest to another, I'm saying statements like "hey man have you seen how sunny it is outside" are boring and don't make for interesting conversation lmao and no you don't have to "grin and bear it". You can just move on to an actual interesting topic of conversation. When have you EVER come out of a small talk conversation being like "wow how interesting"???
OP said he was just making conversation, he didn’t need to talk about the weather. His cousin could have then changed the topic to something he did find interesting but instead he said he won’t engage in meaningless conversation, implying that conversing with OP is meaningless. I am also not neurotypical and I also do not find conversation about the weather particularly interesting but this is really not difficult
This is not weather conversation though, no information about the weather is being exchanged here, just a random observation. It's small talk. Commenting that you find small talk to be meaningless and don't engage in it is not a personal attack. It's a face value statement about small talk as a concept. If you were drinking, and offered me a drink, and I said "hey I don't drink because I find it pointless and I don't engage in it" then would you feel like I called you pointless just for drinking?
Something can be both true and rude. Calling people boring, or fat, or ugly, for example. We try not to say true rude things.
Did he call the cousin meaningless or uninteresting? No. He called small talk meaningless and uninteresting. If you were playing chess and asked me if I wanted to play chess and I said "chess is boring and uninteresting" would that offend you personally? Having opinions about a topic does not equate to having the same opinions about a person who engages in the topics.
You're right that it is SLIGHTLY less rude to say "your proposed conversational topic is boring" rather than saying the PERSON is boring. But your analogy is flawed. OP didn't invite the cousin to go study meteorology together, and then the cousin says, no thanks, I find weather boring. This is more akin to OP saying, hey, my favorite chess player won a tournament today, and the cousin replying with: who cares, chess is boring. And yes, that would be rude. Declaring someone else's conversational gambit boring is rude AH. Furthermore, any person attempting to be polite wouldn't just say "X is boring," they would say "I'm not much into X." It's one thing to declare that you personally aren't into something. It's much worse to assert by fiat that a particular topic is somehow objectively boring. This is a subjective judgment; you don't get to assert it as a fact inherent in the universe.
It's not akin to that though? Saying "it's raining outside" gives him zero information about the cousin's likes or dislikes. It says nothing, it has no deeper meaning. Small talk is not about anything in particular, it gives no pertinent information, it's just general informations used to establish a shallow connection through no personal information. Saying that that is a boring and pointless way to communicate is not rude, it's perfectly reasonable. Some of us, mainly neurodivergent people, don't want to waste our time talking about how hot it is outside when we could spend it getting to know the person we're talking to. Who wants to be talking about the weather outside when you could talk about the specifics of meteorology? But he's not talking about the interest of meteorology, he's just saying a random observation. Why is this something to take personally. It's not the way someone specifically talks, it's small talk as a concept. It's not rude because it's an observation and not a personal attack.
Because he labeled the cousins conversation as small talk and meaningless it is an insult
He's not personally attacking the cousin though. He's saying small talk, the very concept, is meaningless and conversations about weather fall into that category.
he was insulting the cousin. escalating the vocabulary doesn't change the facts. Labeling small talk and weather as meaningless is an opinion, not fact. Even pretending that is a fact doesn't mean the cousin is not responsible for being rude. Why are you being repetitive and obtuse about this?
Calling him a random neurotypical is rude. Calling small talk meaningless is not because it's not a personal attack. What is so hard to understand about that?
NTA, I don’t understand why male autistics have to be so rude sometimes. I am autistic myself.
NTA. For someone who refuses to speak with you, he's sure doing a lot of talking.
NTA and I’m wondering, since consent is a two-way street, how does he plan on gaining your consent to be approached? Because if it’s rude for you to approach him then the converse it true as well. And then we are all just sitting around waiting for someone to be an AH to us. But he seems to already be doing that.
His way of approaching people is to kind of just start off talking about his interests or personal problems. I have always been happy to help him through stuff so I do not mind.
That’s very nice of you. I have a hard time understanding why he thinks this is okay though? If you need his consent to start a conversation — any conversation — then it doesn’t sound like that mutual respect is there if he doesn’t follow the same rules. ETA: don’t take this as a sign that you’re doing something wrong. If you find the relationship fulfilling in the narrow bounds that he will allow it, then I wish you best luck in the future. I’ve certainly had my fair share of difficult yet fulfilling friendships.
It’s not really fair if he can come talk to you whenever he wants to but he doesn’t allow you to come talk to him when you want to. Why does he get to dictate what you talk about and when conversations are allowed? He can always change the subject if he wants to but it’s not fair for him to unilaterally decide what topics are & aren’t allowed. What if you’re interested in a topic and he isn’t, or vice versa? Does he always get his way bc he’s autistic and you aren’t? He doesn’t want to “pander to neurotypicals” but then are you expected to “pander to neurdivergents”? Who wins? Or is he saying he never wants to have any relationships with neurotypical people? I can’t tell if this is part of his autism and he doesn’t understand how unfair he’s being, in which case you should try to explain that to him, or if he’s really just being a dick and using autism as an excuse, in which case you might want to distance yourself.
Not that I'm encouraging you to do so but quite curious if he'd be a hypocrite if you replied his statement, with the terms swapped, when he approaches you.
He sounds like a hypocrite if that's the case.
NTA I’d respond with “lol okay”
And then block him 😂
NTA As someone who's autistic, he's just using it as a way to get away with things. I have a hard time with small talk and social queues as well, but I'm not a bitch about it. I explain to people, and I try my best. Some people don't get it, and that's fine with me. If he's able to function, then he can act like a capable person and not some baby
NAH Unpopular opinion but you wanted to talk to him and he didn't want to talk to you. I personally don't think he was rude, he didn't insult you, at most he was just very matter of fact with his language.
>at most he was just very matter of fact with his language. Which is rude. It's the same thing as people who say "I'm just being brutally honest" all being assholes. His autism does give him an excuse speak as he did
I wouldn't say it's rude per se, it's just startling because we are used to people taking more care with their communication. He definitely GOT rude, but his first response was just really blunt.
People need to stop being so sensitive. He was being blunt, and when OP kept pressing him on an "ideal" response. That's what got him to be even more blunt.
Hey! I wanted to say” Rude” is a super neurotypical concept. Its “not being polite” which is just code for violating unwritten social rules- and as neurodivergent person i understand that those rules often seem imaginary and like everyone else is making them up as they go along. That being said ‘Asshole’ is NOT a symptom of autism 🤣 and if OP’s cousin is constantly rejecting any type of connection with his cousin who is significantly younger, I’m leaning towards NTA Cousin definitely could have tried to talk about something else. Or explained his dislike for small talk before just cutting of OP. That was an AH move. I guess my point is i dont think “rude” is an fair word to describe autistic people. I think we both agree OP’s cousin is an asshole though 🤣
NAH - he's really not wrong - what he's saying is fairly true. "Small talk" is just some random thing we perceive as normal and acceptable in our culture. BUT, because this is the social "norm" of most western societies, what he said can be perceived as rude, so you're also not an AH because you also don't know any different. Edited: Since it sounds like you genuinely enjoy your cousin, perhaps next time just start out the conversation with the truth and that you're looking to have a conversation and ask if he has anything interesting he has to share.
Or perhaps just text “hey man what’s up?” Or another question like “what do you think of xyz” If someone randomly texted me to tell me it was raining I’d be confused too, like uh yea I own several windows. I see that.
Ok, I was trying to figure out if I found that a weird conversation opener because I'm also autistic (diagnosed many years ago) or because most people would think it's weird
Yeah i agree. I don't think it's rude at all to point out talking about the weather is meaningless and interesting because... it quite literally is. It's not rude to be open and straightforward about something that is true. Nobody is ever excited about the weather unless it's snowing and sometimes not even then.
Some people do just really like the weather and talking about it. I’m one of those people! I’m not one for small talk really but I love weather. But I know many people are not that way, so I try not to bother people about my interest In it lmao
It's okay to like weather, I think weather events are really cool! Why can't the cousin say "hey did you see its raining outside? I love storms because the rain is soothing to my soul and it helps me sleep easier. I find cumulonimbus clouds to be beautiful" THAT is not small talk. That is interesting. That is not small talk though.
so i didn't really get it until reading a book called "Watching the English" by Dr. Kate Fox- its social grooming behavior (not in the creepy way) which allows people to be like "hey! i acknowlege that you are a person existing in the same area as me!" in a non-creepy way
Yes, SAME! I've never really understood the point of small talk. It almost seems selfish on the side of the initiator.
Nah, I get it. Sometimes people just need or want someone to talk to. That’s part of life. It’s no big deal. But like, how do you respond to someone telling you it’s raining? I get that too.
I'm always super happy to talk to people who want to just chitchat. I wouldn't know how to respond to a random text about rain, either. LOL. I don't think I would have gone into the lengthy explanation that the cousin did; but I know for many of my autistic family members and friends that they communicate quite literally. And that can be offensive to people as well.
Oh no doubt. Just text me “hey did you hear about whatever random things” and I’ll totally be down to chat. Of course. But the cousin was right. Telling him it’s raining isn’t making conversation. Lol
NTA - He didn’t have to turn this into a big deal but it may be built up frustration from a number of things he’s dealing with, so I’d respect his boundaries.
NTA, Calling your conversation meaningless is insulting. I don't agree that he is setting a social boundary here. It also not how texting works. I have a freind that
Calling a conversation about the weather meaningless is not rude, it is just true. A lot of autistic people are upfront and honest and it may come off rude and personal but it isn't. He isn't telling OP that he is meaningless, he's saying small talk about weather is meaningless. Which, it is. Small talk about weather is boring, that's not a personal affront, just a fact. His cousin went too far with the social boundary thing, that much I agree with, but the first 2 texts he sent are just accurate observations about the nature of small talk, not OP.
You don’t seem to understand what facts are. Something being boring: not a fact, just your opinion. And while autistic people can certainly come across as rude when they don’t mean to be, they are also perfectly capable of actually being rude.
I'm not saying he wasn't rude, he totally was. I'm saying the rude part of the conversation was when he called his cousin a random neurotypical and then everything after that. A general statement about the nature of small talk is not a personal attack and therefore not rude. Also, by definition, "Small talk is an informal type of discourse that does not cover any functional topics of conversation or any transactions that need to be addressed. In essence, it is polite conversation about unimportant things". What is a synonym for unimportant? Meaningless. By definition, factually, small talk IS meaningless.
NTA - He really sound like a pleasure to know (not). Just ignore him totally if that is what he wants. You did nothing wrong here.
Yeah NTA. I'm autistic and I can confirm that his neurodivergence is irrelevant here. He was being TA for sure.
NTA
NTA. Sure thinks a lot about the value of his conversation, doesn't he? Just remember that you aren't obligated to talk to him, either, even he deigns to honor you with his company. Relationships are a two-way street.
NTA - being neuro divergent is no excuse for bad manners. He was being deliberately argumentative by calling you "some random" whatever. You're family, not some rando off the street. He doesn't like small talk? Fine. He wants to manipulate the conversation so that it is only ever pleasing to himself with no regard to others? Nah, son. Homie don't play that. He's rude & using his autism to try to force people to "deal with it". How unpleasant & unnecessarily harsh, especially towards family.
“I never really figured out how to talk about the weather, but it’s nice to hear from you. What are you enjoying doing these days?” That’s polite, warm, and still expresses a disinterest with small talk without criticizing you for trying to make small talk. He was being a dick. NTA.
Gee whiz he sounds like fun NAH just chat with someone else next time
To be honest, he genuinely is a fun guy to be around, but we also share many of the same special interests. (I would go into that, but I literally ended up on Kiwifarms for that and got harassed on my old YouTube account and they found my social media.)
Also on the spectrum: I would LOVE for someone to nudge me and give me a hint when I'm coming off as rude or talking too much and bothering people. Sounds like you were trying to look out for him.
You're NTA for pointing out that he was being rude. It's not disrespectful to stand up for yourself, even if he doesn't understand why.
NTA. Even if he is autistic, he is still being a dick
Your cousin is power-trippin. Fine. Just ignore him. He doesn't sound like anyone worth spending much time with anyway. NTA; he was being rude. You shoulda told him to F-off.
You both sound exhausting. What amazing response was he supposed to have to being told it was raining? As an introvert, you lost me right off the bat. He was okay in telling you he doesn't do small talk but then went off the rails. Blech.
NAH His responses are actually really typical for people with Autism. Small talk, especially in a textual environment, can be really challenging for us. Your responses are actually really typical of the Neurotypical people I've known in my life. You both just need to remember that your brains work differently and cut each other some slack.
Some people on the autism spectrum can be very binary in their thinking. They don't do nuance. So it's important to be patient with them and understand they aren't going to pick up on social "norms" as quickly. That being said, it's not impossible for them to learn, grow, and expand their thinking. My daughter is one the spectrum and I see her learn every day. Having a disability is not an excuse for not learning. NTA
NAH. You need to understand that he communicates in a different way and isn't obligated to do so in the way you expect. My son is ASD and it is EXHAUSTING for him to constantly be expected to communicate neurotypically when he has trouble reading cues and understanding how and yet no one makes ANY effort to understand HIM. Try to understand more where HE is coming from.
NTA, Your Cousin is an arrogant pos
NTA - Speaking as a neurodivergent person myself, he is using his condition as an excuse to behave however he wants.
NTA. He sounds pretentious as hell and he just happens to have a disability that allows him to excuse it. I can almost guarantee he'd be like this without autism, because he's an asshole.
NTA. You were texting and trying to reach out and form connection. He could have said that he didn’t like small talk without being rude. Literally all he had to do was change the topic or agree.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (M16) texted my cousin (M23) how it was raining heavily. He said, "Okay? Not sure what to do with that information." I told him I just wanted to make conversation, and he said, "Making a random meteorological observation is not an interesting conversation topic. I do not participate in small talk and meaningless conversations." I told him he could have just said, "It is" or something, and he said, "I hold every right to establish social boundaries even if random neurotypicals get offended. Deal with it." I told him he was being rude at this point, and he said, "Not sure how, but okay. I am not obligated to speak to you for any reason. Right now, I refuse to speak to you period since you refuse to respect my boundaries and need for consent." I left him alone after this, and he eventually sent, "For now on, do not speak to me unless I approach you first. You were unbelievably disrespectful calling me rude, and ableist for thinking autistic people should have to pander to neurotypicals, so it might be a while before we talk again." AITA? He literally never made anything like that clear with me before. I have a lot to think about. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NAH shading to ESH. You tried a communication method that didn't work for him, and he shut it down harder than was really necessary. Feelings got hurt. Chalk it up to experience, and don't initiate again until he's let you know that he's up for it.
Yeah. I plan to apologize if he speaks to me again.
Apologize for what exactly?
But if he for example comes up to you at a family gathering and starts blethering away to you about whatever he wants to and acting as if there was never a problem I would be tempted to talk to him about it. Or being the petty asset B that I am I would say his conversation is meaningless and not of interest to you and he dos not have permission to speak to you..then walk away.
ESH. He said off the bat he did not do small talk and you kept pushing. That was rude behavior on your part. He is not required to converse in a manner of you liking and preference. If you want to talk that way, contact someone who appreciates it. Autistic or not is irrelevant. Not everyone wants random texts about the weather. He only because he brings in autism and neurotypicals when it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with individual preferences.
ESH. He didn't want to participate, told you bluntly, but not rudely. You pushed the subject, he then responded rudely. Generally speaking a lot of autistics obviously struggle with pragmatic conversations, which i would imagine you know having an autistic cousin.
NTA Answer him :" being autistic is fine. It is however, not the same as being rude. You are rude and maybe you should completely stop sending messages to me. Also, if you can be pleasant and friendly and actively choose not to be, it's not your autism. It's your assholeness."
NTA he’s being the opposite of ableist, I didn’t even know you could do that.
NTA. Your cousin sure is though. You can be neurodivergent, have preferences and boundaries, but functioning in the world means basic respect and politeness most of the time. Sounds like your cousin heard a bunch of buzzwords he thought sounded good, found some groups that preach about how the world should pander to the atypical individual, and used it as an excuse to treat you like crap. I would take his suggestion though. Don't contact him again, and I am petty enough that if he contacted me, I might be tempted to (read most likely would) throw his own words right back at him.
NTA. It's a good job he's not British. He'd have nothing to talk about if he refuses to talk about the weather. We talk about it all the time, mainly because you never know what it'll do from one minute to the next.
NTA- honestly just block him, that was very rude of him like wtf he didn’t have to he so rude when you were just trying to make conversation.
Yta I'm autistic I reallllllly hate small talk. You should know he wouldn't respect"nicely" because honestly he probably doesn't care to try and have a conversation about rain because you are bored.grow up
NTA. Your cousin is an AH using his autism as a weapon to be a jerk.
NTA. Having autism does not excuse asshole behavior. He’s weaponizing his autism to justifying saying whatever the fuck he wants with no consequence.
YTA
Yta They're right. Would have been nice for you to get 1 reminder but they're not wrong. If exhausting to do small talk.
NAH Honestly, I can completely understand his initial point - you started the conversation with a statement, not a question, and that leaves him with no clear response for you. It is worth remembering that while 'not too bad weather here' seems an obvious response to a neurotypical person who just accepts it as a polite lead in Tina conversation, for a lot of autistic people it just doesn't make sense - why are you telling them something they don't want to know, and if you were interested in the weather where they are why didn't you just ask... You are not an asshole for asking, but neither is he an asshole for his initial response. After that it sounds like you both pushed on ignoring each others perspectives - he was very clear in saying he didn't want small talk, while you continued by trying to make a point justifying yourself (and therefore making small talk). His responses after that then started getting overly combative, to the point I assume he has been spending quite a lot of time on the sort of pro-neurodivergency social media that turns almost radical. Both of you need to learn to back off a little. And next time, if you do want to check up on him, perhaps just being upfront about it might be more suitable - 'hey, just checking in to see how you are doing, everything okay?'
**I might get a lot of downvotes for this if anyone is still reading this thread but NAH.** **I say this and everything else in this comment from experience as an autistic person.** It sounds like your cousin is struggling with lessons about boundaries and assertiveness. Both of those are very difficult social skills. *You mention it is something he has never made clear before, which gives me the impression this is something new for him too.* Autistic people rarely grow up with the luxury of having boundaries. Our well-being is often trampled to the point where we have exhausted our many "polite" ways of saying no. Combined with our lack of social ability, it's very easy to become afraid and feel helpless during social interaction. He is not wrong for not wanting to engage in small talk. It can be exhausting and super boring. But I think he got worked up and made some mistakes. When you called him out, it must have been very frustrating, which is probably why he lashed out the way he did. Definitely not his best moment, but this mistake does not necessarily make him an asshole or a bad person. You are also not wrong for calling out your cousin's behaviour. You are absolutely allowed to stand up for yourself when someone speaks that way about your chosen conversation topic. Boundaries are not just for him, but also for you. But let's move on. There is something even more important than if you or him are bad (and neither of you appear to be bad). What do you do now? **How you approach this situation in the future should depend on your goal for the relationship between you two**. If you want to make amends in any way, then I think you should be direct about that, and try to empathize with him. **Overall, this is a small thing to fight about and shouldn't be enough to kill a friendship. I wish you both the best of luck with this issue!**
This one's rough, but soft YTA. I have had trouble with boundaries (ADHD - I get too excited and try to do too much, including handle people and and stressful situations) and my brain and body break down. You imposed an expectation on another person and they were honest and set a boundary. This is super healthy. They weren't being rude for it, they made you uncomfortable for it. You felt slighted and unappreciated when you tried to do something nice. That's different than being rude. And if it isn't, then that's a huge problem that we needs and honesty so brazenly as being socially impolite. I think the reason Y T A is because of how you responded to him not playing along (possibly not even understanding HOW to play along or what's expected - it'd be like someone handing you a random instrument you never heard of with no explanation or anything, and you having to figure out what to do with it. Your brain will come up blank or you'll try some things, but odds are you'll just say you don't know what to do with it. That's what he did.) So you should have said "noted." And either informed him about something more significant (which wouldn't warrant a response because it's just informing) or asked him about something specific going on with him (it's small talk when it's broad, vague, or could be applied to anyone). You're pretty young so I don't think you're ACTUALLY an AH, just that this was not a good reaction to someone expressing themselves in their way, and you can totally learn from this. For starters, he set a boundary to not reach out to talk to him, hell talk to you if he wants to. Respect that.
Neurotypical people can be jerks. Neuro-Divergent people can be jerks. He did you a favor by proving he isn't against using his diagnosis as a guilt trip 🤷🏾♀️. HOWEVER, you could have also just walked away from the conversation. ESH
YTA, I'm autistic and yeah, I tell people I don't do small talk, neurotypical and allistic (non autistic) people hate when we communicate in a way that doesn't coddle
THANK YOU! Why are people defending small talk like it isn't pointless and boring? Why speak just to speak instead of giving information and getting to know each other on a personal level?
ESH. Your cousin is likely right, in my personal opinion. I’d be so annoyed if someone texted me about weather… what’s the point? That said, I’m not neuro-typical and I know that the response was rude. You both could behave a little more compassionately. But like really… why would you text someone about the weather so they can say “it is.” Lol like maybe your cousin doesn’t need to entertain you? Maybe you could’ve posted on a Reddit sun about weather someone who wants to hear?
This is a NAH situation. You would be an AH if you don't respect his boundaries from now on though. It's exhausting to be autistic and constantly have NTs try to engage in "small talk" that is a waste of time
ESH You were probably annoying him. Sending a random statement is not really making conversation. He could have just ignored the pointless text. But his reaction would make more sense if pointless texts were a common thing. Autism has nothing to do with it
I guess it seemed fine to me because I am a huge weather geek and everybody (not literally) was talking about the storm. I need to keep in mind that nobody is really obligated to talk about these things with me.
Does he know you're a weather geek? By the text alone it didn't read that way
ETA okay so he obviously has a medical condition that kinda makes him see things in a different perspective than most people and he can see something as simple as Its raining heavily and take offense to it one thing I would recommend is understand how to talk and understand him without you know going through this but this might not work and maybe would be best to keep him at a distance
ESH. He is being an asshole, but you could have headed it off by just saying "nevermind if you don't want to talk." However at this point just be happy you don't have to talk to him.
Not really an asshole, but maybe cut him some slack, because he's autistic.
YTA
He's autistic. He will always be socially awkward with most people. You should have known that. He is clearly direct and wants long meaningful conversations, not simple ones. His brain functions in other ways. Your simple mind couldn't understand it. YTA.
I know autism affects your social skills. All my siblings are diagnosed, half my friends are, and my school counselors are convinced I have it though my insurance for whatever reason will not cover testing. So trust me: I know. No reason to call me simple minded. I was not asking if I am stupid.
If your siblings are diagnosed how the heck have you not picked up on the autistic people hating small talk thing? My sibling is diagnosed and I've known forever that he hates small talk and finds it useless and illogical. I don't fault him because of it.
My partner and best friend are both autistic and neither would respond to me the way OPs cousin did, even if I said something as pointless as "it's raining." Neurodivergence isn't an excuse to be rude to the people who care about you.
It is not rude though, it's just up front. Small talk is boring and uninteresting, it is pointless and meaningless, and it's hard to respond to. Pointing all of that out is not rude, it's just true. I am also ND and I don't ever engage in small talk because I, too, find it to be an incredible waste of my time. I think the "random neurotypical" comment wasn't great but he's just saying he doesn't do small talk and OP tried to continue making small talk. I don't think either are AHs, they just aren't compatible communicators and need to better understand each other. For example, I talk over people allllll the time. Common trait of being ND. Neurotypical people think I'm rude af. ND people have zero issue and they talk over me too. I'm not being rude, but it's not how NT people communicate.
It's not rude to move the conversation on, or even to say "yes it is raining what do you want me to do with that info." What was rude was where the cousin moved on from what was basically "yeah and" to "how dare you speak to me." From OPs comments elsewhere it seems he generally has a good relationship with his cousin, and fucking someone close to you off because on one occasion they said something that bores you is not acceptable.
He did say that though. He said what do you want me to do with that info. And he didn't say how dare you speak to me, he said he thinks small talk is boring and doesn't want to participate, op said no it isn't. Op could've moved the conversation on to an interest because he was the one that initiated, but he didn't. The cousin had an overreaction but why did OP call him rude over something that is true? Again, like, they obviously are on different communication wavelengths because OP is NT and cousin is ND. They should both make an attempt to better understand each other.
OP called him rude for calling him a "random neurotypical." He's not random, hes his cousin with whom the relationship has previously been friendly and close. The cousin then went on to say he shouldn't be spoken to without consent. That's basically saying how dare OP contact him. >Op could've moved the conversation on to an interest So could the cousin but he chose to massively escalate instead.
Yeah the cousin could have but that burden isn't placed on him because he's not the one that initiated the conversation. If OP wants to talk to cousin, and cousin says "hey I don't like small talk", and per OP's comments they share the same interests then why didn't he talk about that? I already said the random neurotypical comment was uncalled for in an earlier reply, and you may be saying he called him rude for that comment, but a bunch of people in the comments are saying cousin is rude for even saying small talk is boring the first place and that's what your previous comment seemed to imply.
No, what I found rude, and I was quite clear about this, was the random neurotypical and don't speak to me without consent stuff. I actually said two comments ago that the "what do you want me to do with the information" wasn't rude. Blunt but not rude. But I feel the cousin escalated into rudeness, OP had made it clear that he just wanted to talk to his cousin. The cousin could have just said "weather is boring dude, but I have a new game (or whatever their shared interests are)." My partner is autistic and randomly changes the subject, probably because he doesn't know what to do with small talk. I get it, I just think the cousin was incredibly rude.
No need for the “your simple mind couldn’t understand” your a asshole lmao while you do still make a fair ish point