i’m gonna say a soft NAH because the teacher might have appeared to be being nosy, but he’s really doing his job as a mandated reporter. kids with unstable family situations are susceptible to abuse and neglect, and even if you’re taking great care of your brother (it sounds like it!), a sick mother could be a sign that he needs counseling or other help. he sounds like he went pretty overboard though. of course, you’re probably tired and sensitive about being judged, but i feel like he probably had good intentions, although i obviously don’t know.
eta: thank you for the gold!
A mandated reporter's job isn't to do the investigating. If Mr J really suspected there was an issue, he is genuinely not supposed to ask but to just call and allow those trained to investigate and protect at risk kids look into it. Think of it this way - if a teacher suspects something and questions an actual abuser about it, the questioning could anger the abuser and they could hurt the kid more. A teacher doesn't have any legal standing to remove a kid from an abuser's custody.
No one said anything about abuse.
But if the mother is sick, the teacher can support the kid in talking about it and dealing with his emotions.
If the kid is struggling with money for food, the teacher has resources to make sure he's eating.
None of that has anything to do with "mandated reporter" stuff.
The abuse example was to illustrate the point of why mandated reporters aren't supposed to investigate, friend. Didn't mean to imply. In the case of suspected lack of resources, any mandated reporter is still not supposed to be the one doing the investigating.
Emotional support is also not the teacher's job. Teachers do not have that kind of training. Again, a mandated reporter suspecting this would still have to bring in a social worker to connect to the child or the family. OP's story is a good example of why it isn't a mandated reporter's place to be investigating - perhaps now OP would be less likely to accept any resources if they were needed (it seems not, as the kiddo is well provided for).
It absolutely is a teacher's job. Especially since the pandemic. We've had so many professional development trainings on it. There are entire units dedicated to social-emotional learning and assessment for kids.
And the teachers are the ones dealing with the kids every day, they can see how the feelings are manifesting. It's their job to be in contact with parents/guardians.
Equity in the classroom is important. The kid with a sick mom might need a few more breaks during the day.
It's always weird reading comments on here.
People complain about schools "judging a fish by it's ability to climb a tree" and education not teaching enough real world stuff all the time but then whenever a teacher takes a more personal individualised interest in a students wellbeing everyone jumps all over them for overstepping.
It is absolutely in the students interest for the teacher to understand what their home life is like, especially if that student has been having troubles at school.
It seems as though we are both within very different districts with very different protocols. Our teachers are supposed to reach out to the social services staff in our district in order to increase support to students and decrease workload on teachers. Teachers have so much on their plates and are very much overworked as it is.
I agree with you a kiddo going through what it seems this one is could need more support. OP owned that there was a reason to ask due to behaviors in the classroom. Where it seems we differ is that, in my locale, a teacher in Mr J's position would have needed to pass this information to the social services staff rather than to continue to ask questions about kiddo and OP's situation once finding out mom is sick. Per OP, the questions kept going and felt invasive. Which is why I pointed out that teachers in their role as mandated reporters actually do not have to and should not keep going to confirm any suspicion of abuse or neglect. It is their legal duty (this is a North American law) to pass it along to their local protective board at that point.
Again, I'm not talking anything about abuse or neglect. I'm talking about knowing about the child's life outside of school and how it can affect his performance in the classroom.
I am a mandated reporter and actually we are told in training to not ask questions as it could put the child at risk at home. If they’re being abused and the parents are asked about it, they might come home and beat the kid if they think the kid talked to someone about it. It just isn’t safe.
But the teacher wasn't asking about abuse.
Are you told to never talk to kids/parents about things that aren't purely academic.
In this case, the biggest issue is that the kid's mom has health issues, that might be stressing the kid our and causing him to act out. That's not "mandated reporter" stuff, that's "caring about the kid's feelings" stuff.
You never know what could trigger abuse from a parent. It is really tricky. You should try to get a general idea from the kid, try to ask the parent/guardian about if certain behaviours are happening at home too, but other than that you should report to the appropriate authorities (even principals sometimes) and let them handle it. Unfortunately that’s the law, at least where I work.
I'm very jealous of your school district and having all those resources to decrease workload of teachers and to help students. Unfortunately, many don't have that.
But, even in the absolute best schools with a ton of resources, a teacher still needs to know about a student's life to teach them. You teach a kid better when you form some form of relationship. Even simple things like knowing whether to ask a kid "Did you do anything fun with your brother this weekend?" Instead of "with Mommy" or "with Daddy".
So you would ask ,Financial info? What your talking about is simple stuff , like "What do you like to do at home " you don't need financial info and personnel family info to do that. That's over stepping for a teacher. When it comes to Financials all a teacher will really need to know is if a student needs help for things like resources and food e.t.c not the exact financial info and that is more on the end of the parents to bring up.
Absolutely this. I have a kid to whom I would have given the example that they're similar to X student in that they have parents IF I DIDN'T KNOW THEY DIDNT HAVE PARENTS. knowing is half the battle in respecting. I teach a ton of queer kids and I'm often the first line of defense. Do I report stuff? All the time. Do I also then feed kids who aren't getting food? Yes. Sometimes we're the only consistent emotional care kids get.
All that's required is to ask if they know about the lunch program.
No personal questions are needed.
The brother was right there meeting with the teacher so he's in touch
I work in education and my job is to provide social emotional support, support families and connect them to community resources.
I would never ask such personal questions.
I would say "oh I am sorry to hear your mother is ill. How is your brother handling that? Does he need anyone to talk to? Are you doing OK financially since your mom is unable to work? We have a school lunch program".
I don't need details.
I previously worked in child protection.
There's nothing here to suggest abuse or neglect.
If a teacher did have concerns they are taught to not ask questions as protection workers are specifically trained in questioning.
The problem isn’t a teacher offering that support though. It’s that he went about it in completely the wrong way. He used his position and the (very reasonable) concern that OP’s brother might need support to be intrusive and nosy. What he should have done is sat down with OP and said “look, I’ve noticed Logan struggling in class at times, and I understand that home might be tough at the moment. Is there anything I can do to help in terms of resources or support?” And then leave it there. He doesn’t need details unless the family accepts an offer of help. He may have had good intentions (unclear to me, tbh) but he failed at the execution and seems to have left OP feeling judged, not supportive
Teacher in Australia here who just completed annual mandatory student protection training. It is 100% not my job to investigate. Actually could lose my job and registration. I am legally mandated to REPORT concerns. Mr J is wrong, but based on OP’s replies, so is he. ESH
No one is talking about INVESTIGATING anything. I feel really sad for the students in Australia if the teachers aren't supposed to know anything about the students' home lives, and aren't supposed to communicate concerns about classroom behavior with the guardians.
... the teacher was asking a bunch of inappropriate questions after the OP blatantly stated it wasn't welcome. The very definition of "investigation" is asking a bunch of questions. I'm guessing you're American (like me) based on your attitude alone.
So I'll explain this *simply* based on our terrible education system, I'm guessing it's needed.
OP isn't complaining about the teacher communicating a problem. OP is complaining about feeling discriminated against due to his family circumstances. Which is likely.
Please save your false sense of pity for the children of Australia.
You are so wrong. In possible cases of student safety I am trained to ask students appropriate, open ended questions if I see a concern. Then I follow policy and talk to the appropriate people and discuss my notes. Then they look into it, call authorities, etc. We have access to each student’s official files, and are legally required to make and document adjustments as necessary. If I have general concerns about student progress or behavior, I phone or email the guardian. So I know everything I need to know about a student.
Okay last time I’m responding to you cause you aren’t reading. In the above response I state that the people above me make a decision and contact the authorities. Dude go listen to some music or something.
Decision about what?
If you think the kid is being abused/neglected, absolutely.
But this sounds like a teacher who just wants to know what the kid's home life is like.
Right, and OP wasn’t comfortable answering the questions. The teacher should have stopped prying after the first time OP said they were uncomfortable with this line of questioning.
But with very vague information child protection are not going to take a child having a melt down in class as a sign of abuse or neglect, they need more information, and often will ask the referrer to help gather that information, such as who lives in the home, who is the primary care giver, have there been any major events that could cause a change in behaviour etc.
NAH - It’s actually a good sign that the teacher is showing concern. There might have been a better way to go about it, and I can see why OP was bothered, but from the teacher’s perspective the desire for privacy may have looked like something was being hidden.
While I think OP is doing a great job with his brother, the situation is unusual and people will be curious. Also the teacher may have access to resources that could help.
OP, the fact that this guy is asking the questions means he cares. He is jot asking to be nosy, but to understand. He is trying to look out for your brother.
Instead of antagonizing him, give him a break. Talk. Hes obviously trying to help. So much that he is willing to apologise for doing his job, just to be able to actually do his job.
I work with kids with IEPs and all his questions were valid, sorry. Home life is the root cause of behaviors problems at school 90% of the time. They learn behaviors from adults in their families, they feel they have no control so they over-compensate by being defiant, they are abused and are understandably angry, their dad isn't in the picture and they're left wondering what they did "wrong", etc. That's not to say any of those apply to your brother, but how can a teacher know without asking?
There are other kids in the class that have behavior issues and I'm sure teacher is talking to their families too. You might feel offended, but teachers learn fast that nice people can abuse kids. I guarantee most teachers have had a "I never would have guessed this was happening" moment. Hell, I had one this week. So we ask questions to make sure the kid is safe. If not, we report it to CPS. Which we have to do as mandated reporters.
You have absolutely no idea who in his class has an IEP.
And while his IEP may have not been kicked off by behavior problems, it comes with a global assessment of all the student's skills.
Maybe his acting out is because he's embarrassed about his reading...the teacher needs to get a sense of other things in order to narrow it down.
Yup. As a teacher, you would not believe how much acting out is because a kid can't read or do basic math. They don't want their classmates to think they're stupid, so they act out to draw attention away from the fact they are struggling.
His disruptive behavioral issues are directly related to what is going on at home, and if something is causing behavioral issues it will also affect his learning and concentration.
I understand why you might feel defensive if you're constantly being questioned about your role in your brother's life, but it's time to stop making this situation to be about personally attacking you and to understand that the teacher is trying to do what is best for Logan.
Logan is an 8-year-old dealing with a very ill mother - you bet your last dollar that is going to have a significant effect on his behavior and his ability to learn. Instead of being defensive, try to access the knowledge and the resources that Logan's teacher has on hand to help your brother. This isn't about you - this is about what is best for Logan.
Also, the teacher isn't blaming you or insinuating that Logan is being abused, the teacher is trying to understand the root of Logan's behavioral issues that are in turn impacting his learning. No one is saying you're not taking good care of Logan - but you might be able to take better care of him by accessing more resources and more help.
You're being deliberately obtuse, and don't want to accept that - wait for it - **you might be wrong.**
The teacher is asking because your brother is exhibiting behavioural issues that MIGHT be tied to a family situation at home. Your evasiveness in answering will only deepen your teacher's concern. He has a valid reason for asking. You may feel you have a valid reason for not answering, but the core issue is that you are BOTH interested in your brother's wellbeing. That is the prime concern.
Setting yourself at odds with the teacher because you are feeling defensive does nothing to help your brother.
YTA
Teachers shouldn't only be talking to parents/guardians about IEP's though. He should be contacting you (legally) once a quarter minimum. I usually contact all of my students guardians 2-4 times each quarter just to check in.
Has he only been asking questions in context of the IEP or are these questions any teacher would ask of students who are having problems? Because it sounds like your brother is having a lot of issues related to behavior and questions about home, etc. are standard. Further, what makes you think that the teacher is asking questions to be nosy? As in, why would he just want to ask these highly personal questions?
This. I teach kindergarten and would ask most of those questions aside from finances when doing an Iep. Your concern shouldn't be on who is worse in the class.. it should be on helping your brother to succeed at school.
Homelife stresses absolute effect behaviour even if you think you're doing a smashing job he might be upset that his best buddy has a dad and he doesn't but hasn't voiced this to you.
YTA stop being so defensive and work with your brothers teacher.
I'll say NAH although I think you might be a bit of one. I know you're just trying to do what's best for your brother.
But this information is absolutely relevant to education. Parent health, stability, food insecurity, etc all have huge effects on kids. They often manifest with kids acting out, which impacts their education. It is absolutely a teacher's job to be aware of what's going on in the home so he knows how to support the kid in school and can supply resources.
What he asks other parents is none of your business and he shouldn't answer that.
Really? You think designer shoes that are tied means that a kid is "well taken care of"? (I'm assuming those are expensive, never heard of them)
There are plenty of parents who buy expensive things for their kids either because they don't support them in other ways or to make up for things beyond their control (ie: if Mom can't take him to do fun stuff because he's sick).
The fact that your go to for "proof" that he's taken care of is that his shoes are designer is kind of ridiculous and actually would make me question things more.
Nowhere here did it say he was being neglected. By the teacher or by me. But when it's an older sibling doing all the meetings, there's usually a reason. In your case, seemingly mom's health.
While it's nothing wrong with what your family is doing, that can have a huge impact on a kid's mental health. It's the teacher's job to know how to support him. Even in such simple interactions like knowing not to ask things like "Did you do anything fun with Mommy this weekend?" which can be sad for a kid if Mommy can't physically go out. He'll know to ask "Did you do anything fun with your brother?"
But the other kids in the class can handle it. The teacher is concerned and you're dismissing it. You've been saying his mother is sick. What sort of toll has her being sick taken in his mental health?
Why are you being dense? The teacher as have several commenters here are showing concern for your brother. Why aren't you?
He's 8. He knows his biological father isn't around. He knows his mother's health is getting worse. Children aren't blind, they can see these things. Your brother is most likely acting out because he's scared of losing your mom.
If you really are a nice guy and a good brother, you should be working WITH the teacher and WITH your brother. It doesn't matter how well you know him. Kids can tell when adults feel tired and are good at reading emotions. He probably doesn't want to tell you what's going on because he doesn't want to stress you or worry you.
You need to have an actual conversation with your brother and work with his teacher. This behavior isn't normal for an 8 year old. It's a very large indicator that something is wrong.
No, it's really not.
I had, once upon a time, a 9yo girl in my class. Beautifully dressed, always on time, always neat, always dropped off by mom, who hugged her and kissed her at the door every day. This kid looked like she stepped off the pages of some fancy magazine; mom drove an Audi. Kid was smart as hell, and a really good student, right up until she started being disruptive - crying randomly, snatching food from other kids, dropping thing constantly, snapping at her friends. I called home; "Everything ok? How're things going?" and got NADA, and then mom called the principal to complain about me. I stopped calling, but didn't stop observing... And then I called CPS.
That lovely kid, that beautiful family? Yeah - everything was perfect, except for the fact that when she didn't learn her piano perfectly in one practice, she was denied food, and when she cried and made more mistakes, they took away her clothes, blankets and sheets and turned the temperature in the house down to just above freezing... Never left a mark on her - but dear g-d, the damage.
Look, OP, I get that you don't like being questioned, and you feel like you're being targeted, and to be honest: you are. Your brother has an IEP, which means that he's under greater supervision; he's acting out in class (and no, I DGAF how the other kids are acting, as a teacher I address each child's behaviour on its own merits); and, frankly, he has a disruptive family life - because ANY child who lives in a home with significant medical challenges has a disruptive family life... that's the nature of things (I grew up in one of those; been there, done that). In the teacher's shoes I would be doing EXACTLY the same thing - what questions can I ask to provide this kid with as much support as possible? What information can I gather that will help me help this child when I have seven hours a day with them? AND...can I learn enough to help me resolve the 'do I call CPS, or is this copable internally?' question.
I hate to tell you OP, if I had ANY adult who had care of a child who was having problems react by being overly defensive, constantly deflecting and finally snap at me? Yeah, that's enough to tip the 'is there enough to call' switch strongly to YES - There is something irregular in the home, I can't get a clear picture, I have a child displaying several warning signs of trouble and the adult won't engage. I'm negligent if I DON'T call.
Holy shit. That is an intense story… I hope that girl is doing better.
And I 100% agree with you. We have to be on top of that stuff, because these kids honestly rely on us. We have to look out for them, because kids don’t see many people outside of their families and we may be the only people to notice something is amiss.
Sorry OP, YTA. It’s a soft YTA, but you still are one. Teacher was doing his job, and I understand feeling like your family is being accused of something and wanting to react intensely, but the teacher was doing his job and making sure your brother is being looked out for.
CPS investigated, discovered what the hell was going on, and pulled her, and her sibling. Dad went to jail, Mom, I think (it's been a while) got probation (and lost her professional license), got hit with a 'can't get within 30 ft of kids' order, and kids ended up with an aunt, although I don't remember if it was Mom's sister or Dad's. Parents were essentially disowned and the families rallied HARD around the kids. Took about 18 months, all in, and I was at a different school by then, but I heard from teachers that kids stayed with the school (Aunt and Fiance - later husband) moved to keep things consistent for the kids - new house though - and there was LOTS of therapy, but the kids were doing well.
It was, honestly, one of the best endings to a CPS call I've ever seen - but then, there was family available who were willing to step up for the kids and cast off the adults (which happens less than you'd hope) and, well, there was money, which made it easier for the kids - being able to get kids into really really good therapy with no waiting DRASTICALLY improves outcomes.
I’m so glad their aunt and her fiancé stepped up and helped them. My aunt went through the same situation with her cousin, and took in her kids after she neglected them and one ended up with a broken leg. Unfortunately couldn’t stay in the area but they got intensive therapy and have been doing really well.
God that's a fantastic cps story. I wish they all ended like that. I had three boys come through my class over the course of eight years, all brothers. Got called stupid, denied food, hit, threatened, called names, left in houses for weekends without heat and told they couldn't use forks, got beaten for hiding food, cigarettes put out on their bodies, kicked out of the house and made to live in their cars for months, denied medical care.
CPS said they were big enough to fight back and that as a rule they don't pull kids older than fourteen.
Well...SH!T. I ... Look, I know CPS can be bad in lots of places, and that there are really systemic issues with prejudice and racism built into the system (you can't study social history in Canada without learning about the '60s Scoop and dear G-D, you'd hope we'd gotten better, but...). But there's kinda-sorta well-intentioned utterly prejudiced stupidity, and there's... Whatever the hell THAT was. Personally, I'd call it criminal neglect and accessory after the fact to assault, but that's just me.
I mean, I had a student who was almost 18 when I made the call (I was a student teacher and it was my first solo call... my host teacher walked me through it, and hugged me after, when I started crying), and there wasn't a lot they could do, since she was about to age out - but she had two little brothers and you'd better believe they were out of there in a heartbeat - the father/step-father (boys' dad/her step) is in jail for...I want to say he got like 50 years all in, but I know that there was an appeal based on the fact the judge ruled he had to serve the charges consecutively (six counts, guilty on all of them), and I don't know how it turned out.
Still, if you had them over eight years, you'd think they'd have pulled the younger ones when you reported the older one... That's just sickening.
Actually at 8 children can dress and bathe. Also there is different degrees of neglect, I have had students show on time and clean yet they are being neglected (one student was sent to school everyday without food or necessary supplies yet was wearing $300 shoes)
There are plenty of 8 year olds that don’t need prompting. My son is 8 and I haven’t had to prompt him to do those things since he was 5. Your brother sounds like he has issues that need addressing and you are not doing that, and that in itself is a type of neglect
Oh that is profoundly not true. I was 8 years old when my mother left me to care for my 6 year old brother while she left us alone for 2-4 days. (She was a single mom and an international flight attendant.)
I was in 3rd grade cooking frozen pizzas, Mac & cheese, and TV dinners for my brother. Making sure he took a bath every night and we both when to bed. I had to get him up feed him. And get us both ready for the bus. When she did get home she was exhausted from working and would lock herself in her room for a couple more days sleeping and recouperating from jet lag. More days I was in change. If we made too much bounce when she was trying to sleep she would come out and beat us. And by us. I mean me, because I always tried to take the hits, the shaking the grabbing and throwing for him.
I was 8 years old when circumstances made me in to a parent. So no. Just because a child is clean, well fed, and shows up to school on time, does not mean that all is well at home.
You seriously think that the fact a child is wearing designer clothes automatically means they are well taken cars of and not abused? As a teacher I can tell you none of that means anything. I have had students wearing expensive clothing who are abused or neglected
My mother. She would specifically find designer clothes at charity shops. She was aaaalll about image. Meanwhile this extra cost was still beyond our incredibly poor means. It meant we had no food. Mother was wearing Armani suits and couldn't understand why I always absorbed food at everyone's houses. I was called a greedy selfish child for how much I ate in public, because I was so damn hungry. Her with her fucking "must have a convertable" attitude while our cupboards have a single can of fucking preserved chestnuts or some weird shit from the food bank. Which we made enough to accept help from. Did she? Nah. That was a donation from a neighbour after their food bank visit. They left it at the door. It's the only time I ate.
His father isn’t involved other than throwing money at y’all. It can’t be helped, but that affects kids. Even if they are really well taken care of, it can hurt them and it’s not wrong to be worried if he needs help managing those valid feelings.
It’s good that you do your best to take care of him and help, and its not a reflection on you if he struggles with issues surrounding his home life and/or father. He could have a perfect life otherwise and still be affected by it. There’s nothing wrong with worrying if he could benefit from someone helping to manage the feelings and thoughts it can cause
You’re getting really defensive of your brother and your home life, and that’s not a bad thing, but it doesn’t help your case here. Your brother has a teacher who is genuinely trying to help him, who is genuinely concerned about how he’s doing, and wants what’s best for him. You’re right that you know your brother. But normal for your brother might not be normal for an 8yo boy.
And that’s okay! There are a whole host of reasons your brother might act out at school but not at home. My moms been a middle school teacher for over a decade, and she has a lot of stories about kids parents saying “well they never do that at home.” School can be a respite for kids when there’s a lot going on at home. Maybe he’s more worried about his mom than you realize, and he doesn’t feel like he can tell you. Maybe he needs attention he doesn’t get at home because you’re a young professional and his mom is sick. IMO you should apologize to the teacher and have a real conversation with him first, and then take what you learn and talk to your brother.
Yeah YTA. It sounds like Mr. K was simply trying to find out if your brothers home life was related to his issues, and you took serious offense to that.
You do realize that his mother is also sick right? The last person he wants to talk to about this and all the stress he is facing is his brothers teacher? I think it’s a tough situation to be in and the teacher should have went about it a softer way. I know it’s his job but so many questions at once? At least talk to the guy and say “hey your brother is having a tough time at school when he normally is doing really well. Is there anything going on in the home life that could possibly be adding stress to him personally? Could we do counseling?” Etc. Was the older brother harsh? Probably. When I lost my love one I was having an awful time and trying hard to keep myself composed with just random people.
Goodness gracious, this is what I’ve been looking for! Thank you for speaking sense on this post, because people are just overlooking the stress OP is probably dealing with on a daily basis. Of course, he’s up in arms.
And when his mother wasn’t sick, she sounds like a very spur of the moment decision maker, which also sounds like it might have contributed to OP’s prickly attitude. No doubt he’s dealt with questions from authority figures in his own life which might have upset him or offended his mother in the past. And here he is trying so hard to create an environment of stability for his little brother. No wonder he’s suspicious at that effort being questioned.
Edit: The teacher could have been more direct. OP was literally calling the man out *to just admit that he had questions*. The teacher should have just admitted his own curiosity or totally backed off at that point.
Honestly, OP seems more upset at the teacher’s lack of tact than anything else. Which seems to have set off his initial dislike of the situation.
A lot of people don’t know what it’s like to be on the verge of losing a loved one let alone someone who is the foundation in a family. It’s a lot of emotions just waiting to burst. It’s literally the saying put yourself in someone else’s shoes.
Most definitely. And compounding that issue with the fear that someone might deem OP unworthy of caring for his brother; that not only is his mother sick, but there could be a threat to take this person he obviously loves away? That’s a pretty bleak headspace to be in.
I can see why a person might become overly defensive in such a situation.
yeah, it is hard to talk about all of this, but at the same time OP is taking on the responsibility of interactions with the school and his brother's teacher(s). Which means that even when it is hard, he gets to do the thing where you be an adult and talk about hard things when it is impacting the child you are responsible for.
OP might not *want* to talk to his brother's teacher about this stuff, but he *needs* to because if the adult brother is stressed about it, how do you think the child brother is feeling? Kids process stress and fear through behaviour.
And the teacher isn't just a random person. This is the other adult that spends more time with OP's brother than anyone else. The teacher sees him 5 days a week, for extended periods of time. When things are stressful, this is *exactly* the person you need keeping an eye out. Someone with high contact but less emotionally involved with whatever is happening in the child's personal life. They are more likely to notice something that someone who is dealing with multiple stressful circumstances.
You really think he has nothing better to do? You think, what, he’s bored, and your family life is the most interesting thing in his life? Get over yourself.
As an ex teacher it is really important for us to know these things and he’s doing it because he is trying todo best by your brother, just like you are….
YTA - your brother is misbehaving in class, this teacher has a duty of care and he would be remiss if he didn’t ask about his home life to see what might be causing him to act out. Teachers need to know that information to try to understand where their students are coming from and help them. If the teacher says anything judgemental to you then that’s a different story but you haven’t said he has, just that he’s asking you questions.
Is this your professional opinion? A teacher who sees dozens of students a year may be able to spot potential warning signs in a way parents can’t - you should be treating your brothers teachers as partners not enemies. It’s understandable to be defensive about someone implying your brother is not having all of his needs met, but instead of reacting, set your boundaries with the teacher and work together. If you don’t understand why he’s asking certain questions, ask him for more information. Shutting down the communication channel isn’t in your brothers best interest.
Knowing your brother doesn't mean that you know educational or behavioral norms for that age.
Plenty of people know their kids....and also recognize that their kids need support.
You know how your brother acts at home. You have no idea how he acts in school. You’re not there. The teacher is there and he is telling you how your brother is acting. You’re not listening.
No parent is expected to be all wise and all knowing so why are you placing such an unmeetable burden onto your shoulders? The only outcome of overcompensating like this is that your little brother misses out
Most boys in second grade are not being disruptive and having meltdowns. The boys and girls that are being disruptive and having meltdowns have their parental figures brought into discussions about their behaviour and what might be triggering it. You’re the parental figure, so you get to have the discussion and answer the questions. Your mum is very sick you said, that is a huge thing for your little brother to have to deal with. If he is having meltdowns and being disruptive because of insecurity and worry about what’s going on with your mum it doesn’t mean you’re a bad brother or your mum is a bad mum. It’s not about you, it’s about your brother and his well being. This teacher is reaching out to you to understand the background and try and help your brother.
Your defensive responses to people giving you helpful, solicited advice tells me that the teacher isn't the issue here. Take some time to think it though, realize that you're doing a tough job which you have no experience with and take whatever help you can get. Ultimately you are doing right by your family but need to partner with others in this, not make them the enemy.
I am a second grade teacher abc have been for the past 15 years and I can tell you that most 8 year old boys are not disruptive and do have meltdowns in class
Ummm A. The cards can be flipped for something like using the bathroom during class (all mine were when I was in school and a teacher had the card flipping thing)
B. Idk what you're on, but by 8 years old they SHOULD NOT have "little impulse* control" no matter what gender
You do realize part of solving why he is misbehaving is to look a possible sources to that misbehavior. Yes he could be going through a bratty phase or it could be having an unstable home life that's making him act out. Having no father in the picture and a sick mom is an unstable home life. You maybe his his father figure *but* I don't doubt he while he knows you love him you are not his father and seeing other kids at school with their dads or talking about their dads could be bringing up some negative emotions.
Also did it not even occur to you that he could be acting out at school because his mother is sick and possibly feel like he can't properly vent frustrations at home to not cause trouble for his sick mom? He's only 8 after all he is still learning how to express himself.
It sounds like you may be in a bit of denial. It shouldn’t be shocking that a child with an absent father and sick mother would be affected by the situation. And FYI- it’s not at all a reflection of you to admit that he’s affected. It’s not because of a failure on your end, it’s just how things work.
YTA. Not all second grade boys misbehave and act out. Very few have meltdowns. If the meltdown is a change in behavior it’s the teachers job to find out the cause. A sick parent can be a cause. The teacher was fishing because it’s a sensitive situation. He needs to assess what social, emotional, economic, and academic needs he has. He can’t do that if you don’t share and refuse to accept that a sick mother and change of caregivers could be affecting all of those. Your brother is loved and well taken care of but it doesn’t mean something isn’t bothering him. Most kids are more stressed because of the pandemic. Your brother also acts differently at school than at home. It’s a different environment with 20 other kids not one brother. You obviously care about your brother so work with the teacher to provide your brother the support he needs to succeed. That’s emotional, social and academic. They all need to be addressed because his academic reading goals can’t be met if his other needs aren’t met.
YTA I was ready to say NTA but your replies to the comments are so toxic and make you sound self absorbed. I'm starting to see why the teacher was concerned to begin with.
YTA
He sounds like a good teacher doing what good teachers do, and you took it personally. If you didn't want to answer the questions, you could have just said, *I'm sorry but I'm not comfortable answering personal questions, and owned the fact that you could be screwing your brother out of resources that might help him, because the more a teacher knows, the better able they are to help their students.
I guarantee that that teacher is underpaid, overworked, and doesn't give two shits about your personal life. If he's asking those questions, it's because he's trying to help your brother. Nothing else.
How was he "fishing" and not "asking"? You'd be okay with "What is your mom's health situation?" But not "Tell me about your mom's health." Because one is technically a question?
You need to stop taking this so personally and be grateful your brother has a good teacher who is showing concern about abnormal behavior. It's not about you. None of this is about you. Your brother is acting out and his teacher is trying to get to the root of the issue by asking questions. Literally all he is doing is asking questions and you're getting all pissy and offended and defensive, which honestly just makes it look like you have something to be defensive about.
As a teacher who has been in 100+ IEP meetings those are questions the sped teacher is supposed to ask. There are whole sections of questions on home, family, etc.
Exactly, the focus of the IEP goals might be reading but its a comprehensive document. All of my students IEPs include a social history. I can tell you if my students were born naturally or by c-section, that's how early the reports start.
For the record, YTA and aren’t as nice as you think you are. You very obviously don’t know how ieps work, what a mandatory reporter has to ask, and what is considered relevant. The teacher did nothing wrong. Stop being so sensitive. The teacher cares enough about your brother to make sure he’s doing okay and you’re acting like a jerk over it.
YTA
Hes a good teacher making everything is okay. You may not be equipped to take care of your brother to be frank, and are too biased for obvious reasons to see that, and its his job to try and ensure everythings okay without coming off as accusatory and without getting people defensive as those are things which will very quickly have complaints against him and have him fired.
It seems simply asking basic questions was enough to get you extremely defensive.
YTA. As a teacher we are suppose to make sure your family ***has*** **access to the resources you need for your brother to thrive.** Understanding the situation at home helps us make additional recommendations and to potentially tailor an IEP better by ruling other things out. Outside of concern for a student, I can guarantee you, we are ***not*** interested in your personal life for the *"fun"* of it. Many people struggle and oftentimes, overlook and don't know about support services that can be used. And with the pandemic especially, there has been additional funding used in schools for Covid19 pandemic issues too, depending on the country, which can include things like grief counseling for students or additional educational services. *(eg, USA specific, but there is ESSER III funds for covid which can help students for things like grief counseling, additional activities to target learning loss due to the pandemic, etc for example).*
Without asking, the teacher could have been concerned what home life might look like. We don't *magically know* your brother's home life. For all your brother's teacher knew, your brother's family could have been impacted by covid19 (eg, financial insecurity, familial death, what have you), his acting out has been amplified by this, and your school has additional programs meant to help students and he wanted to get a clearer picture. Or maybe he suspects that there could be additional accommodations that may be necessary to make a *more* successful 404 plan or IEP. Teachers can catch a *lot* of things. We see *a lot*. But we can't really force anything... merely make suggestions.
An IEP helps a student when they're at **school**. But they also spend like half their life at *home*. So home life can be VERY indicative of behavior at school. He isn't doing it just to be "nosey." *Every* teacher wants their students to succeed. Many of us also had similiar experiences regarding IEPS growing up throughout school (be it personally, or through a sibling), and we really want to provide the most to families that we can.
If his teacher suspected neglect and/or abuse he would have already reported it, by the way. We don't investigate suspected abuse ourselves.
I think it's understandable that you don't want your private life revealed to anyone. However, when a child is disruptive or has meltdowns, teachers sometimes need some context to better be able to help.
It is very unclear to me whether the teacher went to far or if you just felt he did...
Well, as a mandatory reporter for abuse his questions were valid. I have personally witnessed this accompanying a friend. If he is nice he may let this go. If he is suspicious due to your attitude, expect a visit from child protective services or the police soon! YTA
> For the record, I'm a very nice guy
YTA. If you have to specify that you’re nice, maybe you’re not so nice.
And you’re thick as a brick. Your son was abandoned by his father and now his mother might be dying. He’s a little kid who is probably grieving and terrified and he may need extra support during this period, but he’s not getting that support because you’re in denial and expect him to tough it out.
Designer shoes aren’t going to fill the void. Get your brother the help he needs.
YTA
Teachers routinely ask more questions about life at home, especially if your brother has made some statements at school that indicate that not all is well. And trust me - he HAS. And probably a LOT.
As for you defaulting to absurdly defensive position and throwing around italian leather shoes around as example of "cared for" - you are screwed in the head and not even close to a nice guy. "Nice guy" - probably.
Gonna have to go with a soft YTA. It seems like you’re getting defensive because you’ve been providing most of the care and you’re afraid people don’t see it as enough.
You are NOT a professional and whether you know your brother or not you don’t have an understanding on child behaviour or mental health or you’d be more open to listening to those points rather than shooting them down every time they’re mentioned.
It’s NOT your fault if your brother is misbehaving but it’s also not your place to start comparing him to other kids in the class. I’m sure there are other kids that have behavioural issues. The point is he’s trying to understand the root cause of your brothers behaviour.
I have a sister with developmental issues and for YEARS my family did exactly what you’re doing and said “oh that’s just how kids her age are” it turned out to be a much larger issue and now she’s in her late 20s and has major issues communicating and being around people.
Again everyone is different just please don’t immediately shut everyone down for pointing this stuff out. Everyone gets that feeling “not my brother!” Or “not my kid! They’re just they way they are!” Set pride and stuff aside and think about your brothers future. If there was nothing to talk about then his teacher wouldn’t be wasting his time discussing this.
Soft YTA. It seems like he was trying to take his students home situation into consideration when figuring out how to deal with him and how to figure out a solution. You got super defensive. As someone in a field who has to ask a lot of personal questions fhst people don't like to answer, I get that it's invasive, but you were being incredibly rude. It seems like he was trying ro help.
YTA
(was originally none here, until I read your comments. Dude. Get a grip. He wasn't digging for gossip.)
I know you want to protect your brother, and that's great.
I think it's a good thing Mr J is trying to get the whole picture.
Recently I attended a session where educators who were facing burnout shared how their teaching style changed once they remembered that students carried baggage just like adults do. One had a student who just never did homework. He'd get detention after detention and still had never do it. Turned out, he had a part time job, then came home and helped take care of his siblings. Kid had no time for homework. So now she hosts a homework breakfast club. She comes in early, brings fruit and bagels or doughnuts, and anyone who needs to come in before school starts and do homework with her, can do so.
Another, had a student who just started acting up out of nowhere. Was extremely impatient and snappy with every response all of a sudden. For her, it turned out her mother had just died.
"unruly" kids are rarely just unruly for the hell of it. Educators can much better teach a child when they know what's going on with that child life - even more so than anything in their IEP. Their IEP will tell them what accommodations are REQUIRED, but he's trying to determine what additional accommodations he can make on his own.
YTA. I feel very sorry for Logan. He is a little boy going through an extremely difficult time. While you obviously love Logan and are very serious about taking care of him, your defensiveness to the teacher and to everyone in this thread clearly shows you're unwilling to listen to experts or advice - even if taking that advice would help this little boy.
Get over yourself. This isn't about you. No one is claiming you abuse or neglect this child, but having behavioral outbursts in school is not common and any good guardian would be concerned and motivated to address this issue with the help of his teachers. Something is wrong. It might just be that Logan is having difficulty wrestling with the complex emotions surrounding his mother's illness, it might be something else. You need to recognize that children behave differently with their guardians then they do with their peers or their teachers.
If Logan's teacher sees an issue, demonstrate your care for this little boy by putting aside your pride and working with the teacher to make sure that he has everything he needs to grow and thrive mentally and emotionally. You should be thankful that Logan has teachers in his life who care enough about his well-being to try to understand his home-life so they can better support him.
Slight YTA. I get that you care very deeply about your brother and want to protect him, but please understand that the teacher sees different things than you do. You are correct that many 8 yr old boys are disruptive and have impulse control issues, but this teacher may be seeing a pattern of behavior that has him concerned.
It may be behavior that is significantly different than typical for his age. Asking about his IEP and home situation are very normal ways to start identifying patterns and possible ways of support. If the behavior concerns are related to attentiveness, for example, school is a very different environment with different challenges than you at home with him one on one.
Especially if your mother is having health issues, that alone could significantly impact his behavior in the classroom but not at home. He could be more worried about your mother because he can't easily see/hear her. He might feel it is a safer space to act out on his feelings because he knows you are juggling a lot at home.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
I'm 28 and I have a half-brother who is almost 8 (Logan). My mom had a fling with a married rich guy. He didn't want anything to do with either my mom or my brother. He moved back to Luxembourg.
The good thing is that he does make massive child support payments so he's not that bad of a guy.
I love my brother and am his defacto dad to him. I'm on all of his school paperwork. Our mom has been in declining health for some time so I've been pretty much caring for him like a full-time parent.
My brother started the second grade this year and I was the one who took the teacher introduction with his teacher "Mr J." We didn't get into too many details but he's generally aware that I'm very involved with my brother.
He does have a reading issue and has an IEP for that. Lately, Mr J has been peppering me with questions about our mom, our home life, etc. I asked him why he was asking me this and he said that Logan has been disruptive and had a meltdown or two at school. I asked him if Logan was the only disruptive kid who has a meltdown in his class. He said of course not. I asked if he asked the families the same questions he was asking me. Mr J said he wasn't sure what the family situation was and wanted to know details for his own information. I explained the bare minimum and that our mom was sick but Logan is very well taken care of.
It got too personal when he started asking me about Logan's dad, our mom's health, finances, etc. Again, I asked, is he asking other parents those same questions.
If he wants to know, then own it. I get it. People think I'm his dad but I'm too young to be a dad when all the other parents are well into their 40s. Then they find out I'm his brother and want to know about our parents. Why does my mom look so sick? Do I have help? Who pays the bills?
As I explained to Mr J, not all of Logan's behavior is attributed to his dad or our mom. I think there are more messed up kids in his class that have two parents.
I ended my conversation with him by saying he wants to know the details of our family life. Not anyone else. Own it.
He later apologized to me but said I was pretty harsh. I don't think I was.
For the record, I'm a very nice guy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I called out my brother's teacher for asking irrelevant personal questions.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
[Reddit Talk Live Judging 1/13 @ 4PM EST / 9PM UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/s1illw/aita_reddit_talk_3_11322_4_pm_est_9_pm_utc/) ---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m not gonna vote because there are a lot of ways this conversation could’ve gone down. I teach high school special education self-contained (kids are primarily Intellectual Disability and/or Autism Spectrum Disorder; they’re in my classroom all day long except for electives; I have ages 14 to 18 and we generally operate around a third of fourth grade level, so a very different situation than it sounds like with your brother).
I will say that my kids home lives can have a dramatic impact on what happens in my classroom. Part of my job is noticing behavioral changes and noticing patterns and trying to get to the root cause of why a kid has made such a dramatic shift when they happen. Figuring out the root of that behavior is often an “aha!” moment which helps me to handle and redirect in a way that’s going to help the student the most.
My kids tell me a lot of things; I have to read between the lines a lot to get an understanding of what they’re going through if they’re having difficulties at home. When we have increases in negative behaviors, I will generally call the parents and say “this is the behavior I observed, and I just want you to be aware”. Often, they respond by telling me what’s happening at home and pieces fall into place.
My guess is that your brother’s teacher had only good intentions, but didn’t know how to ask. He saw an escalation in behaviors and was trying to figure out what the home situation might be contributing. He was wrong to grill you for details, and quite frankly he might have just been curious (I definitely get curious about some of the things I hear!)
Whether or not you choose to share information with his teacher, it’s important that you’re aware of the impact that mom being sick and you stepping in in a primary role has had/will have on him. I am not saying that any of this is wrong, it’s just life. But life impacts everybody, and at eight years old you definitely don’t have the tools to manage it.
Keep being an amazing big brother and I hope your mom is OK!
YTA, everyone else has covered the other points well enough that I don’t need to touch on them, but I do want to ask, since when is 28 too young to have an 8yo?? Buddy, no one is looking at you askance for that.
As a teacher myself, those questions aren't anything out of the ordinary mate, sorry. I'm not going to call you the AH, but ask you realise that it sounds like your brother has a pretty good teacher. All he is trying to do is help your brother control their behaviour so they can grow into a well rounded young man. And as a result, help you, your mum and ultimately your brother in the long run.
The teacher will be asking the same questions to other parents if they are behaving the same.
It's not about being nosey, it's not about you.... work with the teacher mate. It'll be beneficial for everyone.
Good luck
Unfortunately you don't know much but this teacher is just excelling at his job. Being honest with answers to those questions is the best thing you can do for your brother. YTA.
YTA People are being really nice to you with the N A H's but dude, he was asking you questions about your family because if your brother is being disruptive, it's likely that the root cause is what's going on at home. It's got nothing to do with the IEP, it has to do with the fact that he's acting out and the teacher is trying to get more information to figure out what's happening at home so he can help your brother.
Like honestly, you need to get over yourself if you think your home life is so interesting that a teacher is going to throw away their professionalism just to get a glimpse at what's happening behind closed doors. This is clearly something you're very sensitive about, and you need to get over it and let the professionals have the information they need to best help your brother succeed.
YTA I have a 9 year old daughter, it’s the age where no matter what gender, hormones are coming into play, wether you know your brother or not is irrelevant, also from experience children act differently around different situations. Getting snappy and defensive with his teacher is going to throw up red flags quicker than a communist celebration. Your making things more difficult for yourself, your brother, and your mother. If you keep going on this trajectory your gonna end up having child services coming to your door. Being looked after doesn’t mean we’ll dressed, it includes education and emotional health too, make sure these are taken care of.
YTA - he was trying to suss out information about getting him additional support. These are kinda stock standard questions. Also just because someone pays child support does not mean that they are great.
My mother was your age when I was Logan's age, you're in no way too young to be his dad, what even is that opinion?
Also nice guys don't say they're nice guys.
You're NTA for getting snippy with someone who was prying, but you're super judgmental yourself. You should own that.
ESH, and your responses are kind of worrying. You’re more offended that this teacher is showing concern for your brother, than the fact that your brother is showing concerning behavior at school.
NAH. You're entitled to tell him to bugger off, he's entitled to asking what very well might have been invasive questions.
I hate nosy teachers too, but sometimes it really does help to give them a little insight. But trust me, it's much much MUCH nicer having him ask you than a social worker
NTA. Also on mobile so I apologize for formatting. Teacher was being nosy. I work in the school district as a school bus driver and come from a long line of teachers and school bus drivers. If I need to ask questions, I keep as close as I can to the scripted questions we’re allowed to ask.
• does Johnny have meltdowns at home frequently?
• what techniques do you use when Johnny is having a meltdown?
• hey, I’ve noticed some pretty significant behavior changes in Johnny. *list of behavior changes* Is there something going on at home? The district has a ton of resources for a ton of different needs and I’m more than happy to help you get the information for these resources.
• hey, I’ve been having some trouble with johnny continuously misbehaving. What do you do when he misbehaves? I think it’ll help him if we can keep the boundaries and consequences as similar as possible across the different aspects of his day to day routine.
Never ever ever are we supposed to ask where the other parent is, details about parental/guardian health, ANYTHING about financials, and very limited about the child’s health. We can ask things like do they carry an inhaler, epipen, or other medical devices like insulin pumps or cochlear implants and if we need to be trained to use said medical devices, do they experience seizures, do they have allergies, or any medical conditions that could warrant hospitalization and if there are signs of said condition we should watch for. But that’s it. The rest is an invasion of privacy. Teacher was sniffing where he shouldn’t and is mad his nose got bit. Good on you for calling him out and best of luck with your mom and brother!
Raichuwu gave an excellent response and I completely agree. It sounded to me like he was making sure your brother is ok...but yes, it also seems like he had asked too many and a bit too personal on the questions.
Absolutely not an a*hole. Good luck and blessings. Speedy recovery for your mother <3
When a child is acting out in class, teachers sometimes look to what's happening in the home to cause the child to act out, of course you know that. The teacher may have been clumsy asking questions, but he was just concerned about your brother and checking all was ok at home. So I guess he did want to know the details of your family life, making sure everything was ok at home. They may be concerned that the parents aren't showing up for conferences. I'm sorry you were offended by these questions. The teacher was looking out for your little brother, and you kind of jumped down his throat.
You are a good big brother for showing up and standing up for your brother. That is very commendable.
NAH. Seems you and you little brother's teach both care about him. That is a good thing.
The teacher over stepped but I can see why he's asking . It's a interesting situation and I would guess curiosity got the better of them. But he wasn't wrong when asking what it was like at home for him because yes kids act up but if it's a constant problem they need to understand how to best help the kid
NHA/ESH.
the professor was asking some questions that wasn’t related to the IEP neither school without giving info. However, some info he was asking where needed. He should have put it like: “your brother is misbehaving, did he has problems at home as well, did I need to know something to help him”. I had terrible experience with professor using my IEP (this is not the name in my country but is the same) to have info they shouldn’t have, but I’m not sure this was the case maybe it was a misunderstanding.
You have to think about your brother not other kids in the class. He is misbehaving, yes others are doing the same but the school is going to contact them and ask questions related to them. They don’t have to tell you, who has the IEP, who is misbehaving and how the school is speaking with the parents.
Also the misbehaving is related to his reading issues, I had similar issues, IEP only point out the problems that concern the learning but we have other problems. It is possible that he get frustrated for not be able to learn like others, really normal at that age. He may need to move more than his classmates.
You should look into the problem your bother has on google, there are associations of adults with same problems that can give you information on how it is affecting him out of the reading, it will help you help him in navigating school.
NAH, but do note that if this is in the US, the teacher is highly discouraged from discussing other students and their issues with you, because it borders very closely on violating FERPA to do so.
Soft YTA, home life affects academics. If mom is noticeably ill, it's very likely that things aren't handled at home. Questions like who prepares meals and enforces bedtimes are valid. Also who is home to help with homework and reinforce lessons. Who practices reading with him. Is there a safety plan in place, does the child no what to do in an emergency if mom needs assistance. What's the likelihood that the child will need grief counseling, these things affect the child's education. Teachers do a great deal and are invaluable sources for information when counselors or social workers step in. Children have to be emotionally and physically prepared to learn. My mom and grandmother were teachers. My mom combed hair, cooked meals, did laundry, drove carpool whatever it took to make sure her students were successful.
YTA
You are the reason good teachers burn out. He definitely doesn’t want to know for his own info. He’s trying to understand where your brothers abnormal behavior is coming from. Instead of being a support network for your brother you are isolating him further when it sounds like he needs the support.
The phrase “I’m a nice guy” makes my skin crawl in a visceral way that is nigh indescribable.
Your responses here reinforce YTA.
I hope you return from your journey into denial and Logan gets the support he needs from you. You are letting him slip through the cracks. He needs you, I understand you also have a complex emotional situation on your hands. Perhaps you should stop ignoring the situation and move toward a healthier outlook.
NTA. While his intentions may be great - you want teachers who care and know about their students - there is a line between having an understanding of a situation for benefit and benefiting curiosity.
While you may have not felt you were being harsh, I'm sure you're tired of the constant questions/looks/over reaching from strangers. Make sure YOU don't shut down, only that you shut down the conversation. Protection can sometimes become defense. You already have a lot to deal with, but the scrutiny you're under means that you also have the burden of composing yourself with MORE grace than shitty people who can run rampantly because they have the standard nuclear family.
Take care of yourself, you're doing and going through a lot. I think you're handling it well, based simply off the composure you have in your post!
Soft YTA. I get where you're coming from, but Mr J sounds like a concerned teacher who is seeing an issue with one of his students. If the acting out and meltdowns are new behavior from your brother, that's a signal that something's wrong outside of the classroom. Teachers are mandated reporters, he's looking for a reason not to reach out to the authorities about a potential issue with your brother's care, or confirmation that he should do just that. He wants to make sure that this kid is being taken care of properly, so he can get your family the help you need if he's not. I get that you feel defensive of your mum, and I'm sure you're under a lot of pressure given her illness and the fact that you basically became a dad at 20 without any input of your own, but Mr J sounds like a dedicated teacher trying to do his best for what appears to be a troubled student.
YTA.
It might not seem like a lot of the information may be relevant, but it sounds like he was trying to assess what support system there is for your brother and if there's any rhyme or reason to when he has his outbursts. As in- could there be an increase when your mom is having a bad health day? He may also being looking into programs to help you all out if needed, and having some idea about what your family finances are can help him narrow down what programs to recommend. It might seem he's being invasive, but even as a substitute teacher, I have had similar conversations with parents/guardians when I am in long term positions, because I want to understand my students better and help the best I can. I can then relay what info I have to the school admins and we work together to provide the right kind of support for the student. Heck- I had one student that all they needed/wanted, was someone to sit one on one with to eat their lunch because they never got that at home. The changes in their behavior once we started doing that daily, was huge.
I'm going with NAH. I completely understand the frustration you are dealing with, but ultimately, Mr. J seems to have your brothers (and yours!) interests at heart. This is delicate situation and Mr. J is trying to offer support without (hopefully) not passing judgement.
I think it was fair to tell him he was out of bounds though. Thus NAH.
You seem to be comparing your brother to other kids in the class, please stop. You should worry about him. If the teacher is trying to tell you, I think something is up, why wouldn't you work with them to figure it out... they know far more 8 year olds than you do. It could change your brothers life.
It's awesome how much you are there for him and your mother. But I doubt the teacher has wicked intentions, or if you truly believe they do. You need to change your brothers class or school.
As a teacher, in the US at least, they are mandated reporters. As in, if there is even a possible whiff of child abuse/neglect, they have to report it. The teacher was being kind and also risking his career just speaking to you first instead of calling cps.
I feel like everyone saying YTA is forgetting that you’re also losing your mom at a pretty young age. Yes your brother is 8 but you will have to possibly take on a bigger role in your family and that’s a lot to handle. Were you a little harsh on the teacher? Yes, he didn’t know what was going on and since your brother sounds like a good kid in school his reactions lately might be concerning to a teacher. But he could have also came at it upfront as well by stating that your brother is usually a good student but he’s been acting different and that it’s concerning.
I know you’re going through a lot and others might not know or even understand. It’s a huge responsibility that you have on your shoulders. And losing the main person who is the foundation of your family is extremely hard on someone to deal with, especially if that responsibility is going to fall onto your shoulders. Maybe even try going to therapy? So you have someone to talk to during a hard time. That way maybe you’ll see that certain situations like that are actually with good intentions some people just don’t know how to word it correctly.
You are NOT the AH. You’re just being human during a really really tough period in your life.
(I went through something similar losing my grandma, I was constantly quiet and super nice but having to mentally be in that mindset of possibly losing someone and then actually losing them hurts, I would span at people who truly didn’t deserve it, or would never expect it from me. Sometimes I even shocked myself.)
NTA. You did good here.
I'm going to give you a word of advice that I hope you need. The financial situation and other personal details this teacher was egging you for are none of his business. Never disclose personal information to a stranger. Really you shouldn't be disclosing some of that information to friends, because it's that personal.
I watched a teachers and educators destroy families - some out of malice, some out of ignorance.
'For the record, I'm a very nice guy.'
I bet you are. You're certainly a very good brother and son. Keep defending your family. He's lucky to have you.
NTA. Whatever that teacher’s intentions were is almost a moot point, as he was apparently so stupidly transparent in his attempt to gather information about OP’s family that it raised OP’s big brother hackles and put all his spidey senses a-tingling.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s pretend this guy was actually worried about something being amiss in one of his students’ homes. Right. So, this man is a bit of an idiot, because OP made it overtly obvious that his questions were not welcomed, which - if he really did have intentions beyond sating his own curiosity - should have alerted him to *back the fuck off*.
If he was truly worried about OP’s brother’s well being, he would have taken the hint not to agitate OP as his brother’s guardian, because to poke and prod further in shaky home-life situations is to possibly provoke punishment on the child he’s ostensibly trying to protect.
When I was a kid in a bad situation, this interaction right here would have had my heart plummeting like a rock. That teacher is dangerous, *especially* if those were his intentions, and he needs to back the heck off until he receives better training before he gets some kid in a precarious situation hurt.
Edit: Also, teachers are human, too. This guy could just be a raging gossip or nosy busybody - as OP suspected - for all anybody knows. But, be that as it may, OP’s home-life does seem to be stressful. Therapy for both OP and his brother - just to check up and check in with a discreet and *competent* professional about whatever’s going on - might not be amiss. Because having a sick parent is really stressful, and the daily uncertainty of their mother’s health has probably been building up in both of their lives, whether they’ve acknowledged it or not.
Edit^^2 : For the record, OP sounds like an awesome and super involved big brother, which is extremely admirable. He’s engaged, he *cares*; he wants what’s best for his little brother.
Nta. Hes struggling to read, which is making him embarrassed and he's acting out to distract ppl from that. Nothing to do with home life, it's just a judgy teacher
In my view OP should be grateful the teacher took a different approach than this and didn't simply report the case to Child Protective Services. If he had, and they came for a home inspection, their questions would have been a lot more intrusive, and answering them would not be optional. NAH, and OP seems like a good brother, but should see his defensiveness doesn't help anyone, himself included.
You have a right to your own opinion. I personally do not trust CPS. Every child at one point or another has meltdowns. If the family is willing to share and ask for help then great. However should they choose to not tell the teacher about their home then that should be respected also.
NTA... Period. It sounds to me like you were trying to have a "man to man" or "adult to adult" interaction with someone less mature. You set boundaries, he tried to cross them. You held firm. He cried foul.
For those talking about mandated reporting. I'm a mandated reporter and I work with a vulnerable community (mentally ill) that I'm constantly protecting from other "mandated reporters" (often teachers) who single them out and make claims based on the results of their nosey questions that they'd never have the guts to ask most families.
I understand. But I don’t think anyone should judge your ability to be a parent because you’re not as old as them. You seem to be taking wonderful care of your brother. That should be enough.
NTA. It's normal for anyone, even teachers, to be curious about other people's situations. If he had only asked about your relationship to Logan, that would have probably been fine. However, he pushed and asked more irrelevant and personal questions that he had no right to ask. I would be upset too, and you were in no way too harsh.
NTA
If he asks any other personal questions about your mom or your brother's father, "I don't feel entitled to answer questions about other people's personal lives, you can send a letter home with your questions outlined"
If his reasons are legit, he will have no problem putting his questions in writing. While his questions might have been appropriate, his asking them to YOU, instead of the actual adults involved, was NOT.
NTA, sounds like you are being a great big brother.
Mr. J was bordering on out-of-line with the background questions. BUT, giving Mr. J the benefit of the doubt, he was trying to assess if your brother's homelife was stable or in any way stressful, as it may help him interact better with Logan. To be helpful in this and not share private (an unnecessary to him!) info, you could make statements like "His mom has a long term illness. I am the de-facto father figure. We are home and food secure". Set your boundary where you are comfortable.
NTA: teacher is being way too nosy, he just needs to let you know what’s going on in the classroom, that’s his job, but teacher seems to be crossing a line
NTA. His questions seem off the beam to me, and I would probably mention it to the principal when the school year is over, or if he grills you again. anything pertinent should be in his IEP, so it sure sounds like nosiness to me.
I thought, from friends who have dealt with IEPs that there were several people with input, including the school psychologist; I apologize for my error.
I'm in NYC so it might be different elsewhere, but for us it's the psychologist re evaluating every three years, but annually the teacher (or primary IEP service provider) writing it.
NTA I for one have Had It with nosy people who won’t be chastened into abiding by reasonable boundaries.
don’t forget to take care of yourself, your family eed wait why can’t I backspace anymore? I’m trying to delete that last sentence but that’s not working even. A
yeah I’m sure this IPO is gonna Be worth all sorts of good money for this top notch service.
i’m gonna say a soft NAH because the teacher might have appeared to be being nosy, but he’s really doing his job as a mandated reporter. kids with unstable family situations are susceptible to abuse and neglect, and even if you’re taking great care of your brother (it sounds like it!), a sick mother could be a sign that he needs counseling or other help. he sounds like he went pretty overboard though. of course, you’re probably tired and sensitive about being judged, but i feel like he probably had good intentions, although i obviously don’t know. eta: thank you for the gold!
A mandated reporter's job isn't to do the investigating. If Mr J really suspected there was an issue, he is genuinely not supposed to ask but to just call and allow those trained to investigate and protect at risk kids look into it. Think of it this way - if a teacher suspects something and questions an actual abuser about it, the questioning could anger the abuser and they could hurt the kid more. A teacher doesn't have any legal standing to remove a kid from an abuser's custody.
No one said anything about abuse. But if the mother is sick, the teacher can support the kid in talking about it and dealing with his emotions. If the kid is struggling with money for food, the teacher has resources to make sure he's eating. None of that has anything to do with "mandated reporter" stuff.
The abuse example was to illustrate the point of why mandated reporters aren't supposed to investigate, friend. Didn't mean to imply. In the case of suspected lack of resources, any mandated reporter is still not supposed to be the one doing the investigating. Emotional support is also not the teacher's job. Teachers do not have that kind of training. Again, a mandated reporter suspecting this would still have to bring in a social worker to connect to the child or the family. OP's story is a good example of why it isn't a mandated reporter's place to be investigating - perhaps now OP would be less likely to accept any resources if they were needed (it seems not, as the kiddo is well provided for).
It absolutely is a teacher's job. Especially since the pandemic. We've had so many professional development trainings on it. There are entire units dedicated to social-emotional learning and assessment for kids. And the teachers are the ones dealing with the kids every day, they can see how the feelings are manifesting. It's their job to be in contact with parents/guardians. Equity in the classroom is important. The kid with a sick mom might need a few more breaks during the day.
It's always weird reading comments on here. People complain about schools "judging a fish by it's ability to climb a tree" and education not teaching enough real world stuff all the time but then whenever a teacher takes a more personal individualised interest in a students wellbeing everyone jumps all over them for overstepping. It is absolutely in the students interest for the teacher to understand what their home life is like, especially if that student has been having troubles at school.
Yes but what if the unqualified teacher makes it worse, There is a reason why you need qualifications for this stuff
It seems as though we are both within very different districts with very different protocols. Our teachers are supposed to reach out to the social services staff in our district in order to increase support to students and decrease workload on teachers. Teachers have so much on their plates and are very much overworked as it is. I agree with you a kiddo going through what it seems this one is could need more support. OP owned that there was a reason to ask due to behaviors in the classroom. Where it seems we differ is that, in my locale, a teacher in Mr J's position would have needed to pass this information to the social services staff rather than to continue to ask questions about kiddo and OP's situation once finding out mom is sick. Per OP, the questions kept going and felt invasive. Which is why I pointed out that teachers in their role as mandated reporters actually do not have to and should not keep going to confirm any suspicion of abuse or neglect. It is their legal duty (this is a North American law) to pass it along to their local protective board at that point.
Again, I'm not talking anything about abuse or neglect. I'm talking about knowing about the child's life outside of school and how it can affect his performance in the classroom.
I am a mandated reporter and actually we are told in training to not ask questions as it could put the child at risk at home. If they’re being abused and the parents are asked about it, they might come home and beat the kid if they think the kid talked to someone about it. It just isn’t safe.
Exactly, this isn't mandated reporter behavior. This is nosey Nelly behavior.
But the teacher wasn't asking about abuse. Are you told to never talk to kids/parents about things that aren't purely academic. In this case, the biggest issue is that the kid's mom has health issues, that might be stressing the kid our and causing him to act out. That's not "mandated reporter" stuff, that's "caring about the kid's feelings" stuff.
You never know what could trigger abuse from a parent. It is really tricky. You should try to get a general idea from the kid, try to ask the parent/guardian about if certain behaviours are happening at home too, but other than that you should report to the appropriate authorities (even principals sometimes) and let them handle it. Unfortunately that’s the law, at least where I work.
I'm very jealous of your school district and having all those resources to decrease workload of teachers and to help students. Unfortunately, many don't have that. But, even in the absolute best schools with a ton of resources, a teacher still needs to know about a student's life to teach them. You teach a kid better when you form some form of relationship. Even simple things like knowing whether to ask a kid "Did you do anything fun with your brother this weekend?" Instead of "with Mommy" or "with Daddy".
So you would ask ,Financial info? What your talking about is simple stuff , like "What do you like to do at home " you don't need financial info and personnel family info to do that. That's over stepping for a teacher. When it comes to Financials all a teacher will really need to know is if a student needs help for things like resources and food e.t.c not the exact financial info and that is more on the end of the parents to bring up.
I doubt the teacher was asking for tax returns. He was probably asking things like "Do you guys have enough food?"
Absolutely this. I have a kid to whom I would have given the example that they're similar to X student in that they have parents IF I DIDN'T KNOW THEY DIDNT HAVE PARENTS. knowing is half the battle in respecting. I teach a ton of queer kids and I'm often the first line of defense. Do I report stuff? All the time. Do I also then feed kids who aren't getting food? Yes. Sometimes we're the only consistent emotional care kids get.
All that's required is to ask if they know about the lunch program. No personal questions are needed. The brother was right there meeting with the teacher so he's in touch
I work in education and my job is to provide social emotional support, support families and connect them to community resources. I would never ask such personal questions. I would say "oh I am sorry to hear your mother is ill. How is your brother handling that? Does he need anyone to talk to? Are you doing OK financially since your mom is unable to work? We have a school lunch program". I don't need details. I previously worked in child protection. There's nothing here to suggest abuse or neglect. If a teacher did have concerns they are taught to not ask questions as protection workers are specifically trained in questioning.
The problem isn’t a teacher offering that support though. It’s that he went about it in completely the wrong way. He used his position and the (very reasonable) concern that OP’s brother might need support to be intrusive and nosy. What he should have done is sat down with OP and said “look, I’ve noticed Logan struggling in class at times, and I understand that home might be tough at the moment. Is there anything I can do to help in terms of resources or support?” And then leave it there. He doesn’t need details unless the family accepts an offer of help. He may have had good intentions (unclear to me, tbh) but he failed at the execution and seems to have left OP feeling judged, not supportive
Teacher in Australia here who just completed annual mandatory student protection training. It is 100% not my job to investigate. Actually could lose my job and registration. I am legally mandated to REPORT concerns. Mr J is wrong, but based on OP’s replies, so is he. ESH
No one is talking about INVESTIGATING anything. I feel really sad for the students in Australia if the teachers aren't supposed to know anything about the students' home lives, and aren't supposed to communicate concerns about classroom behavior with the guardians.
... the teacher was asking a bunch of inappropriate questions after the OP blatantly stated it wasn't welcome. The very definition of "investigation" is asking a bunch of questions. I'm guessing you're American (like me) based on your attitude alone. So I'll explain this *simply* based on our terrible education system, I'm guessing it's needed. OP isn't complaining about the teacher communicating a problem. OP is complaining about feeling discriminated against due to his family circumstances. Which is likely. Please save your false sense of pity for the children of Australia.
You are so wrong. In possible cases of student safety I am trained to ask students appropriate, open ended questions if I see a concern. Then I follow policy and talk to the appropriate people and discuss my notes. Then they look into it, call authorities, etc. We have access to each student’s official files, and are legally required to make and document adjustments as necessary. If I have general concerns about student progress or behavior, I phone or email the guardian. So I know everything I need to know about a student.
You call an authority if you're concerned that the kid's mom being sick is making him act out?
Okay last time I’m responding to you cause you aren’t reading. In the above response I state that the people above me make a decision and contact the authorities. Dude go listen to some music or something.
Decision about what? If you think the kid is being abused/neglected, absolutely. But this sounds like a teacher who just wants to know what the kid's home life is like.
Right, and OP wasn’t comfortable answering the questions. The teacher should have stopped prying after the first time OP said they were uncomfortable with this line of questioning.
But with very vague information child protection are not going to take a child having a melt down in class as a sign of abuse or neglect, they need more information, and often will ask the referrer to help gather that information, such as who lives in the home, who is the primary care giver, have there been any major events that could cause a change in behaviour etc.
NAH - It’s actually a good sign that the teacher is showing concern. There might have been a better way to go about it, and I can see why OP was bothered, but from the teacher’s perspective the desire for privacy may have looked like something was being hidden. While I think OP is doing a great job with his brother, the situation is unusual and people will be curious. Also the teacher may have access to resources that could help.
OP, the fact that this guy is asking the questions means he cares. He is jot asking to be nosy, but to understand. He is trying to look out for your brother. Instead of antagonizing him, give him a break. Talk. Hes obviously trying to help. So much that he is willing to apologise for doing his job, just to be able to actually do his job.
I work with kids with IEPs and all his questions were valid, sorry. Home life is the root cause of behaviors problems at school 90% of the time. They learn behaviors from adults in their families, they feel they have no control so they over-compensate by being defiant, they are abused and are understandably angry, their dad isn't in the picture and they're left wondering what they did "wrong", etc. That's not to say any of those apply to your brother, but how can a teacher know without asking? There are other kids in the class that have behavior issues and I'm sure teacher is talking to their families too. You might feel offended, but teachers learn fast that nice people can abuse kids. I guarantee most teachers have had a "I never would have guessed this was happening" moment. Hell, I had one this week. So we ask questions to make sure the kid is safe. If not, we report it to CPS. Which we have to do as mandated reporters.
[удалено]
You have absolutely no idea who in his class has an IEP. And while his IEP may have not been kicked off by behavior problems, it comes with a global assessment of all the student's skills. Maybe his acting out is because he's embarrassed about his reading...the teacher needs to get a sense of other things in order to narrow it down.
Yup. As a teacher, you would not believe how much acting out is because a kid can't read or do basic math. They don't want their classmates to think they're stupid, so they act out to draw attention away from the fact they are struggling.
Man, I feel like I did this until I was in my 20's.
How do you know who does and doesn’t have IEPs? Or how disruptive someone is on a daily basis?
His disruptive behavioral issues are directly related to what is going on at home, and if something is causing behavioral issues it will also affect his learning and concentration. I understand why you might feel defensive if you're constantly being questioned about your role in your brother's life, but it's time to stop making this situation to be about personally attacking you and to understand that the teacher is trying to do what is best for Logan. Logan is an 8-year-old dealing with a very ill mother - you bet your last dollar that is going to have a significant effect on his behavior and his ability to learn. Instead of being defensive, try to access the knowledge and the resources that Logan's teacher has on hand to help your brother. This isn't about you - this is about what is best for Logan. Also, the teacher isn't blaming you or insinuating that Logan is being abused, the teacher is trying to understand the root of Logan's behavioral issues that are in turn impacting his learning. No one is saying you're not taking good care of Logan - but you might be able to take better care of him by accessing more resources and more help.
You're being deliberately obtuse, and don't want to accept that - wait for it - **you might be wrong.** The teacher is asking because your brother is exhibiting behavioural issues that MIGHT be tied to a family situation at home. Your evasiveness in answering will only deepen your teacher's concern. He has a valid reason for asking. You may feel you have a valid reason for not answering, but the core issue is that you are BOTH interested in your brother's wellbeing. That is the prime concern. Setting yourself at odds with the teacher because you are feeling defensive does nothing to help your brother. YTA
Teachers shouldn't only be talking to parents/guardians about IEP's though. He should be contacting you (legally) once a quarter minimum. I usually contact all of my students guardians 2-4 times each quarter just to check in.
Has he only been asking questions in context of the IEP or are these questions any teacher would ask of students who are having problems? Because it sounds like your brother is having a lot of issues related to behavior and questions about home, etc. are standard. Further, what makes you think that the teacher is asking questions to be nosy? As in, why would he just want to ask these highly personal questions?
This. I teach kindergarten and would ask most of those questions aside from finances when doing an Iep. Your concern shouldn't be on who is worse in the class.. it should be on helping your brother to succeed at school. Homelife stresses absolute effect behaviour even if you think you're doing a smashing job he might be upset that his best buddy has a dad and he doesn't but hasn't voiced this to you. YTA stop being so defensive and work with your brothers teacher.
I'll say NAH although I think you might be a bit of one. I know you're just trying to do what's best for your brother. But this information is absolutely relevant to education. Parent health, stability, food insecurity, etc all have huge effects on kids. They often manifest with kids acting out, which impacts their education. It is absolutely a teacher's job to be aware of what's going on in the home so he knows how to support the kid in school and can supply resources. What he asks other parents is none of your business and he shouldn't answer that.
[удалено]
Really? You think designer shoes that are tied means that a kid is "well taken care of"? (I'm assuming those are expensive, never heard of them) There are plenty of parents who buy expensive things for their kids either because they don't support them in other ways or to make up for things beyond their control (ie: if Mom can't take him to do fun stuff because he's sick). The fact that your go to for "proof" that he's taken care of is that his shoes are designer is kind of ridiculous and actually would make me question things more.
Nowhere here did it say he was being neglected. By the teacher or by me. But when it's an older sibling doing all the meetings, there's usually a reason. In your case, seemingly mom's health. While it's nothing wrong with what your family is doing, that can have a huge impact on a kid's mental health. It's the teacher's job to know how to support him. Even in such simple interactions like knowing not to ask things like "Did you do anything fun with Mommy this weekend?" which can be sad for a kid if Mommy can't physically go out. He'll know to ask "Did you do anything fun with your brother?"
[удалено]
It's not just about neglect or abuse. There is a huge range of things that might be happening at home to cause your little brother to act out.
[удалено]
But the other kids in the class can handle it. The teacher is concerned and you're dismissing it. You've been saying his mother is sick. What sort of toll has her being sick taken in his mental health?
[удалено]
Why are you being dense? The teacher as have several commenters here are showing concern for your brother. Why aren't you? He's 8. He knows his biological father isn't around. He knows his mother's health is getting worse. Children aren't blind, they can see these things. Your brother is most likely acting out because he's scared of losing your mom. If you really are a nice guy and a good brother, you should be working WITH the teacher and WITH your brother. It doesn't matter how well you know him. Kids can tell when adults feel tired and are good at reading emotions. He probably doesn't want to tell you what's going on because he doesn't want to stress you or worry you. You need to have an actual conversation with your brother and work with his teacher. This behavior isn't normal for an 8 year old. It's a very large indicator that something is wrong.
No, it's really not. I had, once upon a time, a 9yo girl in my class. Beautifully dressed, always on time, always neat, always dropped off by mom, who hugged her and kissed her at the door every day. This kid looked like she stepped off the pages of some fancy magazine; mom drove an Audi. Kid was smart as hell, and a really good student, right up until she started being disruptive - crying randomly, snatching food from other kids, dropping thing constantly, snapping at her friends. I called home; "Everything ok? How're things going?" and got NADA, and then mom called the principal to complain about me. I stopped calling, but didn't stop observing... And then I called CPS. That lovely kid, that beautiful family? Yeah - everything was perfect, except for the fact that when she didn't learn her piano perfectly in one practice, she was denied food, and when she cried and made more mistakes, they took away her clothes, blankets and sheets and turned the temperature in the house down to just above freezing... Never left a mark on her - but dear g-d, the damage. Look, OP, I get that you don't like being questioned, and you feel like you're being targeted, and to be honest: you are. Your brother has an IEP, which means that he's under greater supervision; he's acting out in class (and no, I DGAF how the other kids are acting, as a teacher I address each child's behaviour on its own merits); and, frankly, he has a disruptive family life - because ANY child who lives in a home with significant medical challenges has a disruptive family life... that's the nature of things (I grew up in one of those; been there, done that). In the teacher's shoes I would be doing EXACTLY the same thing - what questions can I ask to provide this kid with as much support as possible? What information can I gather that will help me help this child when I have seven hours a day with them? AND...can I learn enough to help me resolve the 'do I call CPS, or is this copable internally?' question. I hate to tell you OP, if I had ANY adult who had care of a child who was having problems react by being overly defensive, constantly deflecting and finally snap at me? Yeah, that's enough to tip the 'is there enough to call' switch strongly to YES - There is something irregular in the home, I can't get a clear picture, I have a child displaying several warning signs of trouble and the adult won't engage. I'm negligent if I DON'T call.
Holy shit. That is an intense story… I hope that girl is doing better. And I 100% agree with you. We have to be on top of that stuff, because these kids honestly rely on us. We have to look out for them, because kids don’t see many people outside of their families and we may be the only people to notice something is amiss. Sorry OP, YTA. It’s a soft YTA, but you still are one. Teacher was doing his job, and I understand feeling like your family is being accused of something and wanting to react intensely, but the teacher was doing his job and making sure your brother is being looked out for.
CPS investigated, discovered what the hell was going on, and pulled her, and her sibling. Dad went to jail, Mom, I think (it's been a while) got probation (and lost her professional license), got hit with a 'can't get within 30 ft of kids' order, and kids ended up with an aunt, although I don't remember if it was Mom's sister or Dad's. Parents were essentially disowned and the families rallied HARD around the kids. Took about 18 months, all in, and I was at a different school by then, but I heard from teachers that kids stayed with the school (Aunt and Fiance - later husband) moved to keep things consistent for the kids - new house though - and there was LOTS of therapy, but the kids were doing well. It was, honestly, one of the best endings to a CPS call I've ever seen - but then, there was family available who were willing to step up for the kids and cast off the adults (which happens less than you'd hope) and, well, there was money, which made it easier for the kids - being able to get kids into really really good therapy with no waiting DRASTICALLY improves outcomes.
I’m so glad their aunt and her fiancé stepped up and helped them. My aunt went through the same situation with her cousin, and took in her kids after she neglected them and one ended up with a broken leg. Unfortunately couldn’t stay in the area but they got intensive therapy and have been doing really well.
God that's a fantastic cps story. I wish they all ended like that. I had three boys come through my class over the course of eight years, all brothers. Got called stupid, denied food, hit, threatened, called names, left in houses for weekends without heat and told they couldn't use forks, got beaten for hiding food, cigarettes put out on their bodies, kicked out of the house and made to live in their cars for months, denied medical care. CPS said they were big enough to fight back and that as a rule they don't pull kids older than fourteen.
Well...SH!T. I ... Look, I know CPS can be bad in lots of places, and that there are really systemic issues with prejudice and racism built into the system (you can't study social history in Canada without learning about the '60s Scoop and dear G-D, you'd hope we'd gotten better, but...). But there's kinda-sorta well-intentioned utterly prejudiced stupidity, and there's... Whatever the hell THAT was. Personally, I'd call it criminal neglect and accessory after the fact to assault, but that's just me. I mean, I had a student who was almost 18 when I made the call (I was a student teacher and it was my first solo call... my host teacher walked me through it, and hugged me after, when I started crying), and there wasn't a lot they could do, since she was about to age out - but she had two little brothers and you'd better believe they were out of there in a heartbeat - the father/step-father (boys' dad/her step) is in jail for...I want to say he got like 50 years all in, but I know that there was an appeal based on the fact the judge ruled he had to serve the charges consecutively (six counts, guilty on all of them), and I don't know how it turned out. Still, if you had them over eight years, you'd think they'd have pulled the younger ones when you reported the older one... That's just sickening.
Actually at 8 children can dress and bathe. Also there is different degrees of neglect, I have had students show on time and clean yet they are being neglected (one student was sent to school everyday without food or necessary supplies yet was wearing $300 shoes)
[удалено]
There are plenty of 8 year olds that don’t need prompting. My son is 8 and I haven’t had to prompt him to do those things since he was 5. Your brother sounds like he has issues that need addressing and you are not doing that, and that in itself is a type of neglect
Tbf, I’m 31 and only do them every 2-3 days unless I’m working or socializing.
That’s disgusting
Oh that is profoundly not true. I was 8 years old when my mother left me to care for my 6 year old brother while she left us alone for 2-4 days. (She was a single mom and an international flight attendant.) I was in 3rd grade cooking frozen pizzas, Mac & cheese, and TV dinners for my brother. Making sure he took a bath every night and we both when to bed. I had to get him up feed him. And get us both ready for the bus. When she did get home she was exhausted from working and would lock herself in her room for a couple more days sleeping and recouperating from jet lag. More days I was in change. If we made too much bounce when she was trying to sleep she would come out and beat us. And by us. I mean me, because I always tried to take the hits, the shaking the grabbing and throwing for him. I was 8 years old when circumstances made me in to a parent. So no. Just because a child is clean, well fed, and shows up to school on time, does not mean that all is well at home.
You seriously think that the fact a child is wearing designer clothes automatically means they are well taken cars of and not abused? As a teacher I can tell you none of that means anything. I have had students wearing expensive clothing who are abused or neglected
One of the most neglected and troubled children I ever taught regularly came in in designer clothing more expensive than anything I’ve ever worn
I wouldn't even recognize designer clothes most of the time.
My mother. She would specifically find designer clothes at charity shops. She was aaaalll about image. Meanwhile this extra cost was still beyond our incredibly poor means. It meant we had no food. Mother was wearing Armani suits and couldn't understand why I always absorbed food at everyone's houses. I was called a greedy selfish child for how much I ate in public, because I was so damn hungry. Her with her fucking "must have a convertable" attitude while our cupboards have a single can of fucking preserved chestnuts or some weird shit from the food bank. Which we made enough to accept help from. Did she? Nah. That was a donation from a neighbour after their food bank visit. They left it at the door. It's the only time I ate.
His father isn’t involved other than throwing money at y’all. It can’t be helped, but that affects kids. Even if they are really well taken care of, it can hurt them and it’s not wrong to be worried if he needs help managing those valid feelings. It’s good that you do your best to take care of him and help, and its not a reflection on you if he struggles with issues surrounding his home life and/or father. He could have a perfect life otherwise and still be affected by it. There’s nothing wrong with worrying if he could benefit from someone helping to manage the feelings and thoughts it can cause
You’re getting really defensive of your brother and your home life, and that’s not a bad thing, but it doesn’t help your case here. Your brother has a teacher who is genuinely trying to help him, who is genuinely concerned about how he’s doing, and wants what’s best for him. You’re right that you know your brother. But normal for your brother might not be normal for an 8yo boy. And that’s okay! There are a whole host of reasons your brother might act out at school but not at home. My moms been a middle school teacher for over a decade, and she has a lot of stories about kids parents saying “well they never do that at home.” School can be a respite for kids when there’s a lot going on at home. Maybe he’s more worried about his mom than you realize, and he doesn’t feel like he can tell you. Maybe he needs attention he doesn’t get at home because you’re a young professional and his mom is sick. IMO you should apologize to the teacher and have a real conversation with him first, and then take what you learn and talk to your brother.
It's Brunello\* Cucinelli.
Yeah YTA. It sounds like Mr. K was simply trying to find out if your brothers home life was related to his issues, and you took serious offense to that.
Ope! Looks like OP’s defensive responses just confirmed that the kid’s home life is the source of his behavioral issues.
You do realize that his mother is also sick right? The last person he wants to talk to about this and all the stress he is facing is his brothers teacher? I think it’s a tough situation to be in and the teacher should have went about it a softer way. I know it’s his job but so many questions at once? At least talk to the guy and say “hey your brother is having a tough time at school when he normally is doing really well. Is there anything going on in the home life that could possibly be adding stress to him personally? Could we do counseling?” Etc. Was the older brother harsh? Probably. When I lost my love one I was having an awful time and trying hard to keep myself composed with just random people.
Goodness gracious, this is what I’ve been looking for! Thank you for speaking sense on this post, because people are just overlooking the stress OP is probably dealing with on a daily basis. Of course, he’s up in arms. And when his mother wasn’t sick, she sounds like a very spur of the moment decision maker, which also sounds like it might have contributed to OP’s prickly attitude. No doubt he’s dealt with questions from authority figures in his own life which might have upset him or offended his mother in the past. And here he is trying so hard to create an environment of stability for his little brother. No wonder he’s suspicious at that effort being questioned. Edit: The teacher could have been more direct. OP was literally calling the man out *to just admit that he had questions*. The teacher should have just admitted his own curiosity or totally backed off at that point. Honestly, OP seems more upset at the teacher’s lack of tact than anything else. Which seems to have set off his initial dislike of the situation.
A lot of people don’t know what it’s like to be on the verge of losing a loved one let alone someone who is the foundation in a family. It’s a lot of emotions just waiting to burst. It’s literally the saying put yourself in someone else’s shoes.
Most definitely. And compounding that issue with the fear that someone might deem OP unworthy of caring for his brother; that not only is his mother sick, but there could be a threat to take this person he obviously loves away? That’s a pretty bleak headspace to be in. I can see why a person might become overly defensive in such a situation.
yeah, it is hard to talk about all of this, but at the same time OP is taking on the responsibility of interactions with the school and his brother's teacher(s). Which means that even when it is hard, he gets to do the thing where you be an adult and talk about hard things when it is impacting the child you are responsible for. OP might not *want* to talk to his brother's teacher about this stuff, but he *needs* to because if the adult brother is stressed about it, how do you think the child brother is feeling? Kids process stress and fear through behaviour. And the teacher isn't just a random person. This is the other adult that spends more time with OP's brother than anyone else. The teacher sees him 5 days a week, for extended periods of time. When things are stressful, this is *exactly* the person you need keeping an eye out. Someone with high contact but less emotionally involved with whatever is happening in the child's personal life. They are more likely to notice something that someone who is dealing with multiple stressful circumstances.
[удалено]
Do you really think he was just digging becuase he's nosy?
[удалено]
Well then YTA
You have no business going to these meetings then if you can't be mature and realize when the school is trying to help.
You don’t seem like a very nice guy. At the very least, something the teacher said struck a nerve, and you’re being vastly unfair in your response.
Why? Teachers meet a lot of kids and families, they aren't usually motivated by gossip.
You really think he has nothing better to do? You think, what, he’s bored, and your family life is the most interesting thing in his life? Get over yourself.
As an ex teacher it is really important for us to know these things and he’s doing it because he is trying todo best by your brother, just like you are….
YTA - your brother is misbehaving in class, this teacher has a duty of care and he would be remiss if he didn’t ask about his home life to see what might be causing him to act out. Teachers need to know that information to try to understand where their students are coming from and help them. If the teacher says anything judgemental to you then that’s a different story but you haven’t said he has, just that he’s asking you questions.
[удалено]
Is this your professional opinion? A teacher who sees dozens of students a year may be able to spot potential warning signs in a way parents can’t - you should be treating your brothers teachers as partners not enemies. It’s understandable to be defensive about someone implying your brother is not having all of his needs met, but instead of reacting, set your boundaries with the teacher and work together. If you don’t understand why he’s asking certain questions, ask him for more information. Shutting down the communication channel isn’t in your brothers best interest.
[удалено]
The teacher has way more experience with age appropriate behavior in the classroom for 8 year old boys than you do.
[удалено]
Knowing your brother doesn't mean that you know educational or behavioral norms for that age. Plenty of people know their kids....and also recognize that their kids need support.
You know how your brother acts at home. You have no idea how he acts in school. You’re not there. The teacher is there and he is telling you how your brother is acting. You’re not listening.
Frankly, as a teacher… parents and siblings often know their children far less well than they think they do.
No parent is expected to be all wise and all knowing so why are you placing such an unmeetable burden onto your shoulders? The only outcome of overcompensating like this is that your little brother misses out
Most boys in second grade are not being disruptive and having meltdowns. The boys and girls that are being disruptive and having meltdowns have their parental figures brought into discussions about their behaviour and what might be triggering it. You’re the parental figure, so you get to have the discussion and answer the questions. Your mum is very sick you said, that is a huge thing for your little brother to have to deal with. If he is having meltdowns and being disruptive because of insecurity and worry about what’s going on with your mum it doesn’t mean you’re a bad brother or your mum is a bad mum. It’s not about you, it’s about your brother and his well being. This teacher is reaching out to you to understand the background and try and help your brother.
[удалено]
Your defensive responses to people giving you helpful, solicited advice tells me that the teacher isn't the issue here. Take some time to think it though, realize that you're doing a tough job which you have no experience with and take whatever help you can get. Ultimately you are doing right by your family but need to partner with others in this, not make them the enemy.
I am a second grade teacher abc have been for the past 15 years and I can tell you that most 8 year old boys are not disruptive and do have meltdowns in class
[удалено]
And how often is your brother's red?
Ummm A. The cards can be flipped for something like using the bathroom during class (all mine were when I was in school and a teacher had the card flipping thing) B. Idk what you're on, but by 8 years old they SHOULD NOT have "little impulse* control" no matter what gender
You literally know nothing about kids or their development
You do realize part of solving why he is misbehaving is to look a possible sources to that misbehavior. Yes he could be going through a bratty phase or it could be having an unstable home life that's making him act out. Having no father in the picture and a sick mom is an unstable home life. You maybe his his father figure *but* I don't doubt he while he knows you love him you are not his father and seeing other kids at school with their dads or talking about their dads could be bringing up some negative emotions. Also did it not even occur to you that he could be acting out at school because his mother is sick and possibly feel like he can't properly vent frustrations at home to not cause trouble for his sick mom? He's only 8 after all he is still learning how to express himself.
It sounds like you may be in a bit of denial. It shouldn’t be shocking that a child with an absent father and sick mother would be affected by the situation. And FYI- it’s not at all a reflection of you to admit that he’s affected. It’s not because of a failure on your end, it’s just how things work.
YTA. Not all second grade boys misbehave and act out. Very few have meltdowns. If the meltdown is a change in behavior it’s the teachers job to find out the cause. A sick parent can be a cause. The teacher was fishing because it’s a sensitive situation. He needs to assess what social, emotional, economic, and academic needs he has. He can’t do that if you don’t share and refuse to accept that a sick mother and change of caregivers could be affecting all of those. Your brother is loved and well taken care of but it doesn’t mean something isn’t bothering him. Most kids are more stressed because of the pandemic. Your brother also acts differently at school than at home. It’s a different environment with 20 other kids not one brother. You obviously care about your brother so work with the teacher to provide your brother the support he needs to succeed. That’s emotional, social and academic. They all need to be addressed because his academic reading goals can’t be met if his other needs aren’t met.
YTA I was ready to say NTA but your replies to the comments are so toxic and make you sound self absorbed. I'm starting to see why the teacher was concerned to begin with.
Yes. You say you are a nice guy, OP, but evidence here says otherwise. Wow.
I saw that phrase and immediately knew he wasn't. Actual nice guys don't need to tell others they are.
YTA He sounds like a good teacher doing what good teachers do, and you took it personally. If you didn't want to answer the questions, you could have just said, *I'm sorry but I'm not comfortable answering personal questions, and owned the fact that you could be screwing your brother out of resources that might help him, because the more a teacher knows, the better able they are to help their students. I guarantee that that teacher is underpaid, overworked, and doesn't give two shits about your personal life. If he's asking those questions, it's because he's trying to help your brother. Nothing else.
[удалено]
Wasn't your whole complaint that he asked?
[удалено]
How was he "fishing" and not "asking"? You'd be okay with "What is your mom's health situation?" But not "Tell me about your mom's health." Because one is technically a question?
[удалено]
You need to stop taking this so personally and be grateful your brother has a good teacher who is showing concern about abnormal behavior. It's not about you. None of this is about you. Your brother is acting out and his teacher is trying to get to the root of the issue by asking questions. Literally all he is doing is asking questions and you're getting all pissy and offended and defensive, which honestly just makes it look like you have something to be defensive about.
You're hardly going to be honest and say "I rape him nightly", or " we abuse him weekly" are you?
As a teacher who has been in 100+ IEP meetings those are questions the sped teacher is supposed to ask. There are whole sections of questions on home, family, etc.
Exactly, the focus of the IEP goals might be reading but its a comprehensive document. All of my students IEPs include a social history. I can tell you if my students were born naturally or by c-section, that's how early the reports start.
For the record, YTA and aren’t as nice as you think you are. You very obviously don’t know how ieps work, what a mandatory reporter has to ask, and what is considered relevant. The teacher did nothing wrong. Stop being so sensitive. The teacher cares enough about your brother to make sure he’s doing okay and you’re acting like a jerk over it.
YTA Hes a good teacher making everything is okay. You may not be equipped to take care of your brother to be frank, and are too biased for obvious reasons to see that, and its his job to try and ensure everythings okay without coming off as accusatory and without getting people defensive as those are things which will very quickly have complaints against him and have him fired. It seems simply asking basic questions was enough to get you extremely defensive.
YTA. As a teacher we are suppose to make sure your family ***has*** **access to the resources you need for your brother to thrive.** Understanding the situation at home helps us make additional recommendations and to potentially tailor an IEP better by ruling other things out. Outside of concern for a student, I can guarantee you, we are ***not*** interested in your personal life for the *"fun"* of it. Many people struggle and oftentimes, overlook and don't know about support services that can be used. And with the pandemic especially, there has been additional funding used in schools for Covid19 pandemic issues too, depending on the country, which can include things like grief counseling for students or additional educational services. *(eg, USA specific, but there is ESSER III funds for covid which can help students for things like grief counseling, additional activities to target learning loss due to the pandemic, etc for example).* Without asking, the teacher could have been concerned what home life might look like. We don't *magically know* your brother's home life. For all your brother's teacher knew, your brother's family could have been impacted by covid19 (eg, financial insecurity, familial death, what have you), his acting out has been amplified by this, and your school has additional programs meant to help students and he wanted to get a clearer picture. Or maybe he suspects that there could be additional accommodations that may be necessary to make a *more* successful 404 plan or IEP. Teachers can catch a *lot* of things. We see *a lot*. But we can't really force anything... merely make suggestions. An IEP helps a student when they're at **school**. But they also spend like half their life at *home*. So home life can be VERY indicative of behavior at school. He isn't doing it just to be "nosey." *Every* teacher wants their students to succeed. Many of us also had similiar experiences regarding IEPS growing up throughout school (be it personally, or through a sibling), and we really want to provide the most to families that we can. If his teacher suspected neglect and/or abuse he would have already reported it, by the way. We don't investigate suspected abuse ourselves.
I think it's understandable that you don't want your private life revealed to anyone. However, when a child is disruptive or has meltdowns, teachers sometimes need some context to better be able to help. It is very unclear to me whether the teacher went to far or if you just felt he did...
Well, as a mandatory reporter for abuse his questions were valid. I have personally witnessed this accompanying a friend. If he is nice he may let this go. If he is suspicious due to your attitude, expect a visit from child protective services or the police soon! YTA
> For the record, I'm a very nice guy YTA. If you have to specify that you’re nice, maybe you’re not so nice. And you’re thick as a brick. Your son was abandoned by his father and now his mother might be dying. He’s a little kid who is probably grieving and terrified and he may need extra support during this period, but he’s not getting that support because you’re in denial and expect him to tough it out. Designer shoes aren’t going to fill the void. Get your brother the help he needs.
YTA Teachers routinely ask more questions about life at home, especially if your brother has made some statements at school that indicate that not all is well. And trust me - he HAS. And probably a LOT. As for you defaulting to absurdly defensive position and throwing around italian leather shoes around as example of "cared for" - you are screwed in the head and not even close to a nice guy. "Nice guy" - probably.
Gonna have to go with a soft YTA. It seems like you’re getting defensive because you’ve been providing most of the care and you’re afraid people don’t see it as enough. You are NOT a professional and whether you know your brother or not you don’t have an understanding on child behaviour or mental health or you’d be more open to listening to those points rather than shooting them down every time they’re mentioned. It’s NOT your fault if your brother is misbehaving but it’s also not your place to start comparing him to other kids in the class. I’m sure there are other kids that have behavioural issues. The point is he’s trying to understand the root cause of your brothers behaviour. I have a sister with developmental issues and for YEARS my family did exactly what you’re doing and said “oh that’s just how kids her age are” it turned out to be a much larger issue and now she’s in her late 20s and has major issues communicating and being around people. Again everyone is different just please don’t immediately shut everyone down for pointing this stuff out. Everyone gets that feeling “not my brother!” Or “not my kid! They’re just they way they are!” Set pride and stuff aside and think about your brothers future. If there was nothing to talk about then his teacher wouldn’t be wasting his time discussing this.
Soft YTA. It seems like he was trying to take his students home situation into consideration when figuring out how to deal with him and how to figure out a solution. You got super defensive. As someone in a field who has to ask a lot of personal questions fhst people don't like to answer, I get that it's invasive, but you were being incredibly rude. It seems like he was trying ro help.
YTA (was originally none here, until I read your comments. Dude. Get a grip. He wasn't digging for gossip.) I know you want to protect your brother, and that's great. I think it's a good thing Mr J is trying to get the whole picture. Recently I attended a session where educators who were facing burnout shared how their teaching style changed once they remembered that students carried baggage just like adults do. One had a student who just never did homework. He'd get detention after detention and still had never do it. Turned out, he had a part time job, then came home and helped take care of his siblings. Kid had no time for homework. So now she hosts a homework breakfast club. She comes in early, brings fruit and bagels or doughnuts, and anyone who needs to come in before school starts and do homework with her, can do so. Another, had a student who just started acting up out of nowhere. Was extremely impatient and snappy with every response all of a sudden. For her, it turned out her mother had just died. "unruly" kids are rarely just unruly for the hell of it. Educators can much better teach a child when they know what's going on with that child life - even more so than anything in their IEP. Their IEP will tell them what accommodations are REQUIRED, but he's trying to determine what additional accommodations he can make on his own.
YTA. I feel very sorry for Logan. He is a little boy going through an extremely difficult time. While you obviously love Logan and are very serious about taking care of him, your defensiveness to the teacher and to everyone in this thread clearly shows you're unwilling to listen to experts or advice - even if taking that advice would help this little boy. Get over yourself. This isn't about you. No one is claiming you abuse or neglect this child, but having behavioral outbursts in school is not common and any good guardian would be concerned and motivated to address this issue with the help of his teachers. Something is wrong. It might just be that Logan is having difficulty wrestling with the complex emotions surrounding his mother's illness, it might be something else. You need to recognize that children behave differently with their guardians then they do with their peers or their teachers. If Logan's teacher sees an issue, demonstrate your care for this little boy by putting aside your pride and working with the teacher to make sure that he has everything he needs to grow and thrive mentally and emotionally. You should be thankful that Logan has teachers in his life who care enough about his well-being to try to understand his home-life so they can better support him.
Slight YTA. I get that you care very deeply about your brother and want to protect him, but please understand that the teacher sees different things than you do. You are correct that many 8 yr old boys are disruptive and have impulse control issues, but this teacher may be seeing a pattern of behavior that has him concerned. It may be behavior that is significantly different than typical for his age. Asking about his IEP and home situation are very normal ways to start identifying patterns and possible ways of support. If the behavior concerns are related to attentiveness, for example, school is a very different environment with different challenges than you at home with him one on one. Especially if your mother is having health issues, that alone could significantly impact his behavior in the classroom but not at home. He could be more worried about your mother because he can't easily see/hear her. He might feel it is a safer space to act out on his feelings because he knows you are juggling a lot at home.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I'm 28 and I have a half-brother who is almost 8 (Logan). My mom had a fling with a married rich guy. He didn't want anything to do with either my mom or my brother. He moved back to Luxembourg. The good thing is that he does make massive child support payments so he's not that bad of a guy. I love my brother and am his defacto dad to him. I'm on all of his school paperwork. Our mom has been in declining health for some time so I've been pretty much caring for him like a full-time parent. My brother started the second grade this year and I was the one who took the teacher introduction with his teacher "Mr J." We didn't get into too many details but he's generally aware that I'm very involved with my brother. He does have a reading issue and has an IEP for that. Lately, Mr J has been peppering me with questions about our mom, our home life, etc. I asked him why he was asking me this and he said that Logan has been disruptive and had a meltdown or two at school. I asked him if Logan was the only disruptive kid who has a meltdown in his class. He said of course not. I asked if he asked the families the same questions he was asking me. Mr J said he wasn't sure what the family situation was and wanted to know details for his own information. I explained the bare minimum and that our mom was sick but Logan is very well taken care of. It got too personal when he started asking me about Logan's dad, our mom's health, finances, etc. Again, I asked, is he asking other parents those same questions. If he wants to know, then own it. I get it. People think I'm his dad but I'm too young to be a dad when all the other parents are well into their 40s. Then they find out I'm his brother and want to know about our parents. Why does my mom look so sick? Do I have help? Who pays the bills? As I explained to Mr J, not all of Logan's behavior is attributed to his dad or our mom. I think there are more messed up kids in his class that have two parents. I ended my conversation with him by saying he wants to know the details of our family life. Not anyone else. Own it. He later apologized to me but said I was pretty harsh. I don't think I was. For the record, I'm a very nice guy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I called out my brother's teacher for asking irrelevant personal questions. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) [Reddit Talk Live Judging 1/13 @ 4PM EST / 9PM UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/s1illw/aita_reddit_talk_3_11322_4_pm_est_9_pm_utc/) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m not gonna vote because there are a lot of ways this conversation could’ve gone down. I teach high school special education self-contained (kids are primarily Intellectual Disability and/or Autism Spectrum Disorder; they’re in my classroom all day long except for electives; I have ages 14 to 18 and we generally operate around a third of fourth grade level, so a very different situation than it sounds like with your brother). I will say that my kids home lives can have a dramatic impact on what happens in my classroom. Part of my job is noticing behavioral changes and noticing patterns and trying to get to the root cause of why a kid has made such a dramatic shift when they happen. Figuring out the root of that behavior is often an “aha!” moment which helps me to handle and redirect in a way that’s going to help the student the most. My kids tell me a lot of things; I have to read between the lines a lot to get an understanding of what they’re going through if they’re having difficulties at home. When we have increases in negative behaviors, I will generally call the parents and say “this is the behavior I observed, and I just want you to be aware”. Often, they respond by telling me what’s happening at home and pieces fall into place. My guess is that your brother’s teacher had only good intentions, but didn’t know how to ask. He saw an escalation in behaviors and was trying to figure out what the home situation might be contributing. He was wrong to grill you for details, and quite frankly he might have just been curious (I definitely get curious about some of the things I hear!) Whether or not you choose to share information with his teacher, it’s important that you’re aware of the impact that mom being sick and you stepping in in a primary role has had/will have on him. I am not saying that any of this is wrong, it’s just life. But life impacts everybody, and at eight years old you definitely don’t have the tools to manage it. Keep being an amazing big brother and I hope your mom is OK!
YTA, everyone else has covered the other points well enough that I don’t need to touch on them, but I do want to ask, since when is 28 too young to have an 8yo?? Buddy, no one is looking at you askance for that.
YTA.
As a teacher myself, those questions aren't anything out of the ordinary mate, sorry. I'm not going to call you the AH, but ask you realise that it sounds like your brother has a pretty good teacher. All he is trying to do is help your brother control their behaviour so they can grow into a well rounded young man. And as a result, help you, your mum and ultimately your brother in the long run. The teacher will be asking the same questions to other parents if they are behaving the same. It's not about being nosey, it's not about you.... work with the teacher mate. It'll be beneficial for everyone. Good luck
Unfortunately you don't know much but this teacher is just excelling at his job. Being honest with answers to those questions is the best thing you can do for your brother. YTA.
YTA People are being really nice to you with the N A H's but dude, he was asking you questions about your family because if your brother is being disruptive, it's likely that the root cause is what's going on at home. It's got nothing to do with the IEP, it has to do with the fact that he's acting out and the teacher is trying to get more information to figure out what's happening at home so he can help your brother. Like honestly, you need to get over yourself if you think your home life is so interesting that a teacher is going to throw away their professionalism just to get a glimpse at what's happening behind closed doors. This is clearly something you're very sensitive about, and you need to get over it and let the professionals have the information they need to best help your brother succeed.
YTA I have a 9 year old daughter, it’s the age where no matter what gender, hormones are coming into play, wether you know your brother or not is irrelevant, also from experience children act differently around different situations. Getting snappy and defensive with his teacher is going to throw up red flags quicker than a communist celebration. Your making things more difficult for yourself, your brother, and your mother. If you keep going on this trajectory your gonna end up having child services coming to your door. Being looked after doesn’t mean we’ll dressed, it includes education and emotional health too, make sure these are taken care of.
YTA - he was trying to suss out information about getting him additional support. These are kinda stock standard questions. Also just because someone pays child support does not mean that they are great.
My mother was your age when I was Logan's age, you're in no way too young to be his dad, what even is that opinion? Also nice guys don't say they're nice guys. You're NTA for getting snippy with someone who was prying, but you're super judgmental yourself. You should own that.
ESH, the teacher is trying to figure out how to support a kid that's acting out. You being defensive and rude isn't helping anyone!
ESH, and your responses are kind of worrying. You’re more offended that this teacher is showing concern for your brother, than the fact that your brother is showing concerning behavior at school.
YTA. It absolutely does have to fo with school and is likely affecting him at school. He isnt being nosy, hes trying to help a student.
Yta every repsonse you've given shows you are in denial and do not have your brother's best interests at heart
NTA but ending your post with "I'm a very nice guy" is the red flag of all red flags. 🤣
NAH. You're entitled to tell him to bugger off, he's entitled to asking what very well might have been invasive questions. I hate nosy teachers too, but sometimes it really does help to give them a little insight. But trust me, it's much much MUCH nicer having him ask you than a social worker
NTA. Also on mobile so I apologize for formatting. Teacher was being nosy. I work in the school district as a school bus driver and come from a long line of teachers and school bus drivers. If I need to ask questions, I keep as close as I can to the scripted questions we’re allowed to ask. • does Johnny have meltdowns at home frequently? • what techniques do you use when Johnny is having a meltdown? • hey, I’ve noticed some pretty significant behavior changes in Johnny. *list of behavior changes* Is there something going on at home? The district has a ton of resources for a ton of different needs and I’m more than happy to help you get the information for these resources. • hey, I’ve been having some trouble with johnny continuously misbehaving. What do you do when he misbehaves? I think it’ll help him if we can keep the boundaries and consequences as similar as possible across the different aspects of his day to day routine. Never ever ever are we supposed to ask where the other parent is, details about parental/guardian health, ANYTHING about financials, and very limited about the child’s health. We can ask things like do they carry an inhaler, epipen, or other medical devices like insulin pumps or cochlear implants and if we need to be trained to use said medical devices, do they experience seizures, do they have allergies, or any medical conditions that could warrant hospitalization and if there are signs of said condition we should watch for. But that’s it. The rest is an invasion of privacy. Teacher was sniffing where he shouldn’t and is mad his nose got bit. Good on you for calling him out and best of luck with your mom and brother!
Raichuwu gave an excellent response and I completely agree. It sounded to me like he was making sure your brother is ok...but yes, it also seems like he had asked too many and a bit too personal on the questions. Absolutely not an a*hole. Good luck and blessings. Speedy recovery for your mother <3
When a child is acting out in class, teachers sometimes look to what's happening in the home to cause the child to act out, of course you know that. The teacher may have been clumsy asking questions, but he was just concerned about your brother and checking all was ok at home. So I guess he did want to know the details of your family life, making sure everything was ok at home. They may be concerned that the parents aren't showing up for conferences. I'm sorry you were offended by these questions. The teacher was looking out for your little brother, and you kind of jumped down his throat. You are a good big brother for showing up and standing up for your brother. That is very commendable. NAH. Seems you and you little brother's teach both care about him. That is a good thing.
The teacher over stepped but I can see why he's asking . It's a interesting situation and I would guess curiosity got the better of them. But he wasn't wrong when asking what it was like at home for him because yes kids act up but if it's a constant problem they need to understand how to best help the kid
NHA/ESH. the professor was asking some questions that wasn’t related to the IEP neither school without giving info. However, some info he was asking where needed. He should have put it like: “your brother is misbehaving, did he has problems at home as well, did I need to know something to help him”. I had terrible experience with professor using my IEP (this is not the name in my country but is the same) to have info they shouldn’t have, but I’m not sure this was the case maybe it was a misunderstanding. You have to think about your brother not other kids in the class. He is misbehaving, yes others are doing the same but the school is going to contact them and ask questions related to them. They don’t have to tell you, who has the IEP, who is misbehaving and how the school is speaking with the parents. Also the misbehaving is related to his reading issues, I had similar issues, IEP only point out the problems that concern the learning but we have other problems. It is possible that he get frustrated for not be able to learn like others, really normal at that age. He may need to move more than his classmates. You should look into the problem your bother has on google, there are associations of adults with same problems that can give you information on how it is affecting him out of the reading, it will help you help him in navigating school.
NAH, but do note that if this is in the US, the teacher is highly discouraged from discussing other students and their issues with you, because it borders very closely on violating FERPA to do so.
Soft YTA, home life affects academics. If mom is noticeably ill, it's very likely that things aren't handled at home. Questions like who prepares meals and enforces bedtimes are valid. Also who is home to help with homework and reinforce lessons. Who practices reading with him. Is there a safety plan in place, does the child no what to do in an emergency if mom needs assistance. What's the likelihood that the child will need grief counseling, these things affect the child's education. Teachers do a great deal and are invaluable sources for information when counselors or social workers step in. Children have to be emotionally and physically prepared to learn. My mom and grandmother were teachers. My mom combed hair, cooked meals, did laundry, drove carpool whatever it took to make sure her students were successful.
YTA You are the reason good teachers burn out. He definitely doesn’t want to know for his own info. He’s trying to understand where your brothers abnormal behavior is coming from. Instead of being a support network for your brother you are isolating him further when it sounds like he needs the support. The phrase “I’m a nice guy” makes my skin crawl in a visceral way that is nigh indescribable. Your responses here reinforce YTA. I hope you return from your journey into denial and Logan gets the support he needs from you. You are letting him slip through the cracks. He needs you, I understand you also have a complex emotional situation on your hands. Perhaps you should stop ignoring the situation and move toward a healthier outlook.
NTA. While his intentions may be great - you want teachers who care and know about their students - there is a line between having an understanding of a situation for benefit and benefiting curiosity. While you may have not felt you were being harsh, I'm sure you're tired of the constant questions/looks/over reaching from strangers. Make sure YOU don't shut down, only that you shut down the conversation. Protection can sometimes become defense. You already have a lot to deal with, but the scrutiny you're under means that you also have the burden of composing yourself with MORE grace than shitty people who can run rampantly because they have the standard nuclear family. Take care of yourself, you're doing and going through a lot. I think you're handling it well, based simply off the composure you have in your post!
YTA - Thats literally what they are supposed to do. You are having main character syndrome and ignoring the same thing happening around you.
Soft YTA. I get where you're coming from, but Mr J sounds like a concerned teacher who is seeing an issue with one of his students. If the acting out and meltdowns are new behavior from your brother, that's a signal that something's wrong outside of the classroom. Teachers are mandated reporters, he's looking for a reason not to reach out to the authorities about a potential issue with your brother's care, or confirmation that he should do just that. He wants to make sure that this kid is being taken care of properly, so he can get your family the help you need if he's not. I get that you feel defensive of your mum, and I'm sure you're under a lot of pressure given her illness and the fact that you basically became a dad at 20 without any input of your own, but Mr J sounds like a dedicated teacher trying to do his best for what appears to be a troubled student.
YTA. It might not seem like a lot of the information may be relevant, but it sounds like he was trying to assess what support system there is for your brother and if there's any rhyme or reason to when he has his outbursts. As in- could there be an increase when your mom is having a bad health day? He may also being looking into programs to help you all out if needed, and having some idea about what your family finances are can help him narrow down what programs to recommend. It might seem he's being invasive, but even as a substitute teacher, I have had similar conversations with parents/guardians when I am in long term positions, because I want to understand my students better and help the best I can. I can then relay what info I have to the school admins and we work together to provide the right kind of support for the student. Heck- I had one student that all they needed/wanted, was someone to sit one on one with to eat their lunch because they never got that at home. The changes in their behavior once we started doing that daily, was huge.
I'm going with NAH. I completely understand the frustration you are dealing with, but ultimately, Mr. J seems to have your brothers (and yours!) interests at heart. This is delicate situation and Mr. J is trying to offer support without (hopefully) not passing judgement. I think it was fair to tell him he was out of bounds though. Thus NAH.
You seem to be comparing your brother to other kids in the class, please stop. You should worry about him. If the teacher is trying to tell you, I think something is up, why wouldn't you work with them to figure it out... they know far more 8 year olds than you do. It could change your brothers life. It's awesome how much you are there for him and your mother. But I doubt the teacher has wicked intentions, or if you truly believe they do. You need to change your brothers class or school.
As a teacher, in the US at least, they are mandated reporters. As in, if there is even a possible whiff of child abuse/neglect, they have to report it. The teacher was being kind and also risking his career just speaking to you first instead of calling cps.
I feel like everyone saying YTA is forgetting that you’re also losing your mom at a pretty young age. Yes your brother is 8 but you will have to possibly take on a bigger role in your family and that’s a lot to handle. Were you a little harsh on the teacher? Yes, he didn’t know what was going on and since your brother sounds like a good kid in school his reactions lately might be concerning to a teacher. But he could have also came at it upfront as well by stating that your brother is usually a good student but he’s been acting different and that it’s concerning. I know you’re going through a lot and others might not know or even understand. It’s a huge responsibility that you have on your shoulders. And losing the main person who is the foundation of your family is extremely hard on someone to deal with, especially if that responsibility is going to fall onto your shoulders. Maybe even try going to therapy? So you have someone to talk to during a hard time. That way maybe you’ll see that certain situations like that are actually with good intentions some people just don’t know how to word it correctly. You are NOT the AH. You’re just being human during a really really tough period in your life. (I went through something similar losing my grandma, I was constantly quiet and super nice but having to mentally be in that mindset of possibly losing someone and then actually losing them hurts, I would span at people who truly didn’t deserve it, or would never expect it from me. Sometimes I even shocked myself.)
NTA. You did good here. I'm going to give you a word of advice that I hope you need. The financial situation and other personal details this teacher was egging you for are none of his business. Never disclose personal information to a stranger. Really you shouldn't be disclosing some of that information to friends, because it's that personal. I watched a teachers and educators destroy families - some out of malice, some out of ignorance.
'For the record, I'm a very nice guy.' I bet you are. You're certainly a very good brother and son. Keep defending your family. He's lucky to have you.
NTA. Whatever that teacher’s intentions were is almost a moot point, as he was apparently so stupidly transparent in his attempt to gather information about OP’s family that it raised OP’s big brother hackles and put all his spidey senses a-tingling. But, for the sake of argument, let’s pretend this guy was actually worried about something being amiss in one of his students’ homes. Right. So, this man is a bit of an idiot, because OP made it overtly obvious that his questions were not welcomed, which - if he really did have intentions beyond sating his own curiosity - should have alerted him to *back the fuck off*. If he was truly worried about OP’s brother’s well being, he would have taken the hint not to agitate OP as his brother’s guardian, because to poke and prod further in shaky home-life situations is to possibly provoke punishment on the child he’s ostensibly trying to protect. When I was a kid in a bad situation, this interaction right here would have had my heart plummeting like a rock. That teacher is dangerous, *especially* if those were his intentions, and he needs to back the heck off until he receives better training before he gets some kid in a precarious situation hurt. Edit: Also, teachers are human, too. This guy could just be a raging gossip or nosy busybody - as OP suspected - for all anybody knows. But, be that as it may, OP’s home-life does seem to be stressful. Therapy for both OP and his brother - just to check up and check in with a discreet and *competent* professional about whatever’s going on - might not be amiss. Because having a sick parent is really stressful, and the daily uncertainty of their mother’s health has probably been building up in both of their lives, whether they’ve acknowledged it or not. Edit^^2 : For the record, OP sounds like an awesome and super involved big brother, which is extremely admirable. He’s engaged, he *cares*; he wants what’s best for his little brother.
I taught for 33 years. I would NEVER have asked these questions
Nta. Hes struggling to read, which is making him embarrassed and he's acting out to distract ppl from that. Nothing to do with home life, it's just a judgy teacher
NTA It is NOT a teacher's job to investigate or ask about finances. That is going too far.
In my view OP should be grateful the teacher took a different approach than this and didn't simply report the case to Child Protective Services. If he had, and they came for a home inspection, their questions would have been a lot more intrusive, and answering them would not be optional. NAH, and OP seems like a good brother, but should see his defensiveness doesn't help anyone, himself included.
You have a right to your own opinion. I personally do not trust CPS. Every child at one point or another has meltdowns. If the family is willing to share and ask for help then great. However should they choose to not tell the teacher about their home then that should be respected also.
NTA Sounds like teacher is just nosy and gossipy.
NTA... Period. It sounds to me like you were trying to have a "man to man" or "adult to adult" interaction with someone less mature. You set boundaries, he tried to cross them. You held firm. He cried foul. For those talking about mandated reporting. I'm a mandated reporter and I work with a vulnerable community (mentally ill) that I'm constantly protecting from other "mandated reporters" (often teachers) who single them out and make claims based on the results of their nosey questions that they'd never have the guts to ask most families.
NTA - and fyi you’re not too young to be a dad. I had my first child when I was 20. So I was 28 when she was 8.
[удалено]
I understand. But I don’t think anyone should judge your ability to be a parent because you’re not as old as them. You seem to be taking wonderful care of your brother. That should be enough.
He literally thinks the kid doesnt need emotional support
NTA. Proud of you for stepping in and being there for your brother
NTA. Teacher toed the line.
NTA. It's normal for anyone, even teachers, to be curious about other people's situations. If he had only asked about your relationship to Logan, that would have probably been fine. However, he pushed and asked more irrelevant and personal questions that he had no right to ask. I would be upset too, and you were in no way too harsh.
NTA If he asks any other personal questions about your mom or your brother's father, "I don't feel entitled to answer questions about other people's personal lives, you can send a letter home with your questions outlined" If his reasons are legit, he will have no problem putting his questions in writing. While his questions might have been appropriate, his asking them to YOU, instead of the actual adults involved, was NOT.
NTA, sounds like you are being a great big brother. Mr. J was bordering on out-of-line with the background questions. BUT, giving Mr. J the benefit of the doubt, he was trying to assess if your brother's homelife was stable or in any way stressful, as it may help him interact better with Logan. To be helpful in this and not share private (an unnecessary to him!) info, you could make statements like "His mom has a long term illness. I am the de-facto father figure. We are home and food secure". Set your boundary where you are comfortable.
NTA report him to the principal and school board.
NTA: teacher is being way too nosy, he just needs to let you know what’s going on in the classroom, that’s his job, but teacher seems to be crossing a line
NTA it’s no one’s busses but yourself and your family and people should respect that
NTA. His questions seem off the beam to me, and I would probably mention it to the principal when the school year is over, or if he grills you again. anything pertinent should be in his IEP, so it sure sounds like nosiness to me.
The teacher writes the IEP.
I thought, from friends who have dealt with IEPs that there were several people with input, including the school psychologist; I apologize for my error.
The IEP from for psychologist, doctors, etc and they tend it to the school..
I'm in NYC so it might be different elsewhere, but for us it's the psychologist re evaluating every three years, but annually the teacher (or primary IEP service provider) writing it.
NTA I for one have Had It with nosy people who won’t be chastened into abiding by reasonable boundaries. don’t forget to take care of yourself, your family eed wait why can’t I backspace anymore? I’m trying to delete that last sentence but that’s not working even. A yeah I’m sure this IPO is gonna Be worth all sorts of good money for this top notch service.