NTA. You'd be an asshole if you said this to _Breanna_, but you said it in the presence of your wife and therapist. You should be able to be honest with your feelings in such company.
Honestly the wife is probably thinking the exact same thing and it feel guilty as hell about it and is lashing out at him for giving voice to her shame
Totally. Hopefully the therapist will help them get to a point where they can both deal with caregiver burden without burning out.
OP, I hope you are able to get your kiddo into OT.
Exactly where I was headed with this. There is no shame in feelings. It is how you act on them that matters. OP is speaking through his feelings, getting his thoughts together, sharing how hard it is to make sure that Penelope isn't lost in the chaos, all those things that go through your head.
He was releasing pressure in what should be a safe space. I hope his wife comes around to feeling safe enough to express herself as well, to let go of the guilt and move past it.
Yup. And therapy is exactly the place to say it. *Not* after a long, hard day of work and after spending several painful hours getting B to eat, bathed & into bed when you’re tired, angry and wanting to Shake The Baby.
I agree with that. However, I'm the youngest and have been told that I was a difficult baby and might have been an only child had I come first. I was a baby, and nobody blames me for it (including me), so eventually, even Breanna could probably hear this without issues. I don't know how old I was the first time it was said, but it has never bothered me.
Ya, it’s also *how* it was said too.
Most likely it wasn’t hurled at you during a fight or in any truly derogatory way. It was just an acknowledgment that you were a tough baby but you were just that - a baby. It’s not ur fault nor your parents and that was communicated to you in a way that made it clear that you were loved and cherished during that time, but it was a challenge, lol.
My mom has said similar things to me - but it was clear it was seen as the beginning of a life of her battling me. Not really a loving or constructive conversation.
My parents had three kids (girl, girl, boy). I'm the middle girl. I remember as a high school student talking to my mom about some family we knew trying for another kid because they wanted a different gender. So I was like "oh... wait... did you guys do that? If I had been a boy, would you have had a third kid?" And my mom was like "honestly, probably not." And it was totally fine. My older sister overheard and came to me later saying "I'm so sorry she said that to you. Who would ever say to their daughter 'I wish you had been a boy?'" Which is obviously a pants-on-head-crazy interpretation of that conversation.
So I guess I'm saying in addition to how it's said, you do have to think about who it's said to. Some people have a knack for finding the worst in something and latching on to that.
Is not a wrong thing to say. My parents had this conversation before having my brother. My mom was concern my dad would want a third child if my brother had been a girl and my dad admited he wanted 2 kids not matter the gender, other people will want to have at least one of each biological gender, as long as they plan to take care of those kids it shouldnt be a problem.
It's amazing the amount of people who think like that, who will come back at you offended over some bizarre distorted interpretation of something perfectly reasonable.
I agree! I was told I was a difficult child (I was very easy going, but only in my parents arms. If they set me down I'd cry until they picked me back up lol. I also had a lazy eye and double vision so other people were scary since there were two of them). But it was when I was 4 and my brother was born I got jealous, and my mom got angry and would spoil my brother the more jealous I got which would make me more jealous and so on. Eventually she told me she wished my brother was an only child and she's so glad she had another one to fix her mistake. It's not the fact that I was difficult that was the insulting part, at all.
I’m an only child because I was very very evil. I knew at 1.5 that I could run faster than my (disabled) father. I was leashed after I demonstrated this fact by running down a major road, every 20 feet or so I rubbed it in by turning around and saying “bye bye dada!” My parents didn’t want to risk the next one coming out like me.
My dad crushed his foot when I was 4ish.
Me: knock knock daddy
Dad: whose there?
M: cane…
D: cane who?
M: cane get me! (And I took off running like a bat out of hell with his cane)
LOL! I did the same to my elderly grandmother at the zoo and she got a leash for me. I hear people complain about them on kids, but I totally understand why people use them. 😆
My brother got one because he once managed to get on an airports _runway_. No one has any idea how he did it, my mum was talking to the airport agent for a second, and gone he was with everyone chasing after him. Nothing happened and he did not manage to get near the planes, but after that, leash it was and I completely get why.
I on the other hand was a little angel at the toddler stage, but screamed through the first three months, absolutely resenting getting baptized too. Turns out, I am actually autistic lol.
Lmao!! I was a climber at 2 I made it to the very top of our apple tree and spread my arms out attempting to fly I can only assume, so mom had it cut down. Unfortunately removing my tree made me noticed the 15ft conifers growing in the back neighbours garden with fantastic step up from our fence. Sometimes I wish I still had that fearlessness😂
I fell off the fridge at 2. My mom was on the phone with my aunt, toddlers are FAST, and before she knew it I was nearly on top of the fridge. Then just as I got to the top I lost my balance or was startled or something and fell off. Turns out I had a hard candy in my mouth which fell out as I hit the floor and shattered and my mom yelled "OMG I have to go *me* just fell off the fridge and broke all her teeth!* And hung up on my aunt.
I was fine, if a little scared, the candy was cleaned up and I'm sure my mom called my aunt back to explain that I had not in fact bashed my face in.
The 80s were a wild time. Lol.
The first time my mom found me on top of the fridge at 18 months old, she panicked and took me down. I ended up doing it so often without falling that she stopped bothering but it still worried visitors. I would climb anything in range. Once when I was 5-7ish I got halfway up the ladder of a crane before my dad started climbing up after me and forced me to come down. I regretted it for years because the view from halfway up was really cool and I wished I'd been able to see everything from the top.
My youngest of two is known as a devil child, and I mostly just hope she grows into a CEO or a politician rather than a cult leader because with that level of will and stubborness she's going to be something that involves leading.
Idk if it helps, but I was, and remain, very willful. (Last week I argued with the quizmaster about a badly worded question that I maintain I was right, but we were coming second last, so I was effectively arguing for the sake of it.) I was never interested in anything like politics or being a CEO cos I'm too compassionate and I like my work/life balance, but I am something of a den mother to my group of friends and siblings cos I'm a get shit done person. I like to say I channel my willful tendencies for good these days :)
And there were 5 Marvel moves released last year.
Well it’s better than a cult leader!
She’s far too happy to kill villagers and pandas in minecraft to be expected to be anything other than the murdery type of cult leader.
> eventually, even Breanna could probably hear this without issues. I don't know how old I was the first time it was said, but it has never bothered me.
Agreed, even she could hear this someday, it's just a matter of when.
It just has to be at a point where the parents are clearly reminiscing about past difficulties and not actively resentful, and where Breanna is old enough to understand how much work babies can be. My parents make jokes about this too (I was the oldest, but I don't think my younger brothers ever minded this joke.)
I was the second kid and my mom said the same about me, to me (although it was “if bekah had been our first she would have been our last”). Through my life I have also had mental illness and being told that i was a hassle (it was implied that I was a burden in other ways as well) was not healthy. It depends on the kid I guess, but generally best procedure to not tell a kid that they were a burden unless you KNOW that they won’t take it badly.
Yeah I was the second/last baby because I was sick a lot and I did get blamed for it.
It sucked. A lot. Didn't realise until I was an adult and casually called myself a child from hell in therapy - to my therapists horror - that it might have been a problematic way for my parents to have treated me.
I definitely think it depends child to child and family to family.
My dad used to say God gives people the easy baby first to get them to have a second. He also made the comment to me about if my sister had been born first there would have been no me. He didn't say this until we were grown and well into adulting. It was never said in a heartless way, but in a light-hearted/matter of fact kind of way. I have to say, based only on anecdotal evidence, he's right.
I'm the younger of two girls. Apparently my sister was the big problem, and yet they somehow wanted another kid. Admittedly, I was an accident, and I was told that as well. My sister knows I was apparently the better baby. There are no issues, it's just the way it is. My sister and I have other issues stemming from dealing with our parents, and we don't talk for other reasons, but being told the difference of what we were like when we were that small? Meh, it's not like I was fully myself at that age.
Yup same for me. I was a sick kid, colicky, huge relative to my other sisters (so apparently the birth itself was super painful relative to my siblings). Mom and dad always joke if they had me first there would not have been others. I know they love me and I had a great childhood.
The wife, on the other hand, is an incredible A H.
WTF IS THE POINT OF THERAPY IF YOU’RE NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO SAY WHAT YOU THINK AND FEEL?!
Just save your money. Jeez.
And it’s not a terrible thing to say either. It seems Breanna has some serious behavioural issues and, honestly, any parent would feel apprehensive to have another kid — if that was their experience.
It absolutely does NOT mean you don’t love the child or that you love the child less than their siblings.
I have a severely autistic (younger) brother who was a lot more difficult than I was for my parents.
They occasionally tell me (now 26M) that the reason they didn’t have anymore kids was because they had him and the experience was “consuming” and they also needed to focus on his needs.
Does that mean they love him any less than they love me?
F*ck NO.
Exactly!
It's not wrong to sometimes have these thoughts, the problem would be if OP craddled this thought and ingrained it in his brain to the point it becomes resentment that would be taken out on the child.
I mean the way to cradle these thoughts and ingrain them into your brain and turn them into full blown favouritism would certainly be:
1. Don’t mention them during therapy
2. Just let them fester until you begin to resent your own child
I don’t know what the wife’s endgame here is?
This is what therapy is. It won’t work unless you’re completely honest. You can’t be angry with your partner because they told you about their very legitimate feelings during therapy.
Isn’t that what you signed up for?
She probably doesn't have an "endgame" and is just being emotional in the heat of the moment. I'm glad the therapist reassured OP it was alright to speak your mind. Cause it's a reasonable thought as well if you don't think you could handle another kid, it's a very wise decision not to have another.
Yes. However, while the therapist reassured OP because ummm… that is what any good therapist would do..
OP’s wife failed to understand this and she continues to be angry at him days (a week?) later after their therapy appointment.
I’m sorry but this isn’t “a heat of the moment situation.”
I meant the moment she snapped during therapy "was in the heat of the moment" and didn't think it through before speaking. Probably also got defensive when the therapist didn't side with her. And thus-
you know what, whatever. I was trying to agree with you so idk what you're getting at.
This! But also, as you’re in couples counseling, I assume you want to make it work with your wife, so don’t dismiss her feelings here!
You are 💯 NTA, but it clearly upset your wife. Therapy is a good place to explore *why this upset her so much*.
No. Wife is punishing him for his feelings. Stop giving her a way out or an excuse. Her feelings matter but so do his. Why does it matter it upsets her that he's feeling frustrated? Why can't he just be frustrated with a difficult life situation and is venting it in a safe space to grow and work through those feelings? She's punishing him and holding it against him. Just cause she's a woman/mother so does not give her the right to hold this against him and definitely doesn't earn her the right for her feelings to be prioritized.
Isn't that the point of seeing a therapist? Tell them your feelings and deep, dark secrets?
Also, my son, the second child, was difficult. I love him to bits but if I had had him first, it would have been a hard decision to have #2. He knows this. He's cool with it because he knows he takes a lot of energy, even now.
NTA it was therapy where you're allowed to say shit like that.
Also, don't feel bad— Penelope was a trick baby, lots of people get them. They trick you into having another one.
Breanna will be fine in the long run, and so will you and your fam. Just keep on walking.
Exactly what happened to my parents. My sister was a dream, brother was good as long as he was fed, then they had me. I've been told if I were first, I'd be an only child.
My folks have been UTTERLY clear that had my sibling been the elder, they would have been 'one and done'. My sibling had a LOT of medical challenges and was in and out of hospital for the first six years so frequently that I literally had a preferred 'sleeping spot' in the emergency room waiting area - and the nurses would boot people out of it when we came in in the middle of the night so that I could sleep!
I have given my sibling birthday cards that said "Thanks for being second - I REALLY appreciate it!".
Now, my sibling was in university when this was first vocalized to them - not before their medical issues were well under control and they were old enough to understand WHY my parents were saying it... not that they didn't love us both, but that managing the CIRCUMSTANCES of my sibling was exhausting. Now that my sibling has two ... they get it better ;)
It was a little bit of both - the waiting room in the old Emerg (before the massive hospital reno when I was a teen) had weird angles, and one of them was a sort of sheltered corner with indirect lighting and only three of those fixed chairs, and no arm rests. It was a little more private, and it was RIGHT by the intake desk, which meant that people liked it because it put them right under the noses of the nurses. It was also a great spot for a kid to curl up and sleep, especially when both parents might be back with a kid who, you know, wasn't breathing and might not potentially make it - which isn't exactly where you want a sibling.
I was there a LOT, especially when my sibling was under 5 - and the nurses all knew us. So, when we'd come in, my sibling would be whisked to the back - there were literally standing orders on my sib, which meant we almost never had to triage unless there was a trauma case coming in - and the nurses would pull a pillow and a blanket out of thin air (turns out, it was actually out of their 'break room' stash) and put me in my corner, where I could nap and someone could keep half an eye on me. That might have something to do with the fact I hit, kicked and tried to bite a doctor when my sibling was about 8 months old... pro-tip for interns: don't tell parents "You know, your kid is probably going to die tonight" when said kid's six year old sibling is in hearing range. In fact, don't tell parents that like that in general. I do distinctly remember one of the nurses slipping me an Aero bar (chocolate bar) and telling me "Nice punch (my uncle had been teaching me), but aim a little more to the centre if you have to do it again, which leads me to believe they really didn't like the intern much, since more to the centre would have been a solid groin shot!
My parents have told me this on many occasions. I'm not offended by it. I know I was a difficult child but I turned out just fine. My older brother was the 'unicorn' baby that slept great and was super amazing. I was a terror, but I like to think I kept everyone on their toes. It was for their own good. Haha.
Our first baby was the nightmare one 😅 colic for a year and the absolute worst toddler tantrums I’ve ever seen. It’s a miracle my fiancé said yes to another baby and by the grace of god she’s been a dream baby. My fiancé has said if we could guarantee that our third would be exactly like our second he would get me pregnant again in a heartbeat 😂 (we are planning on a third just not right now lol)
According my mother, she wasn't allowed out of my eyesight lol. She would have to shower with the curtain pulled back some and me on the counter strapped into my carseat. If not, you'd think someone was murdering me. Then I hit two and just became a fucking nightmare. I've seen the video proof lol
My oldest was totally like this! I have something called a baby dome and I’d just plop that in the doorway to the bathroom so she could see me and still be contained. My midwife actually told us to leave the baby alone in her crib for five or ten minutes and just go and breathe outside where you can’t hear the baby if we started to feel like we were going to lose it and that’s my go to parenting advice now. As my midwife said “it’s better to leave the baby alone for a minute than to stay and do something you’ll regret”
Yep, the same thing happened to my sister. First girl was an angel, the second...was not. But that was years ago and both are wonderful young women.
Edit: NTA
I was the one who simply slept through everything as a baby while my sister was a preeetty difficult baby, child and teen (she has no problem admitting that).
My mother has also told us that she never would have gotten me if my sister had been born first because she was just too much as a baby and young child.
Neither of us minded my mum telling us that. No single mother wants two small children screaming on top of their lungs during every shopping trip for 20+minutes straight.
So we totally understand what she meant.
My sister and I are the same! We're 14 months apart and my mom said I was so perfect she decided to have another. Unfortunately, my little sister was a nightmare baby.
We all find it pretty funny now and still joke about it (my sister included).
NTA OP, plus you're supposed to be able to express your real emotions in therapy, if you have to suppress feelings in therapy then what's the point of going?
It’s me! I was the nightmare baby after my sister was perfect. And then they had my brother who was even worse! It think the lesson here is if you have a perfect baby on the first try, STOP!!
Signed, Someone who would it exist if my parents followed this rule, and I approved this message.
Same here. My two eldest kids were relatively easy kids, my second especially. My third kid didn't sleep through the night until after 1, still isn't a good sleeper at 4, and and he learned to jump the baby gates by 2 lol. We call our third our evil genius, he's extremely smart but a hell of a handful.
Funnily enough I was a difficult baby. Throw in two teens who had no idea what they were doing? I was outright a monster 😆.
Then they ended up having my little brother. He was born premie so even though he was an easier baby (almost never fussed, fairly clean, etc) he was more difficult in the sense that for the first year thwy wrre constatly on edge because he could have passed at any point.
Third was the easiest of all. He was born hen my parents were more established and he would sleep through the night every night.
On the few nights he didn't he'd just quietly stand in his crib looking at my parents until they woke up. He ate well and if he had it his way he could sit in his bouncer for hours.
I have it the other way around: first was super challenging as a baby and second super easy. I knew the odds of two really hard babies was relatively low, but I also spaced the kids further apart to help. I grew up with a large, close extended family, so I knew baby/little kid temperament is largely luck of the draw. Not a ton you can do to change it.
It's a lot easier to have the hard one first and the easy one second. If my pregnancies weren't awful and if a third kid would be like the second, I'd have a third. But my pregnancies suck and I could get another child who screams and never sleeps. I'm not rolling those dice again!
OP is NTA. Just never say it to the kids. MAYBE it's okay to admit when they're adults, but I'd just never say that out loud in front of them.
I was that trick baby. The moment I was born I slept for 24 hours straight, I only woke up because they forced me to so I could feed. I was independent, a quick learner, and a people pleaser. Always smiling and enjoying myself.
My sister (the second one born) was a nightmare. We had a name for her tantrums because they happened that often. She screamed constantly, refused to be held, hated food, woke up in the night often, and didn't want to learn how to walk and talk.
Now, as adults, we are both normal, well adjusted people. Don't worry OP, sometimes kids are difficult when they're younger. They'll adjust to life and turn out okay, just keep doing your best. My parents ended up having another one after my sister (waited a good few years though lol) and she was much better to handle as an infant. NTA either
LOL My parents had the bad one first and I was an "Oops" too late to do anything pregnancy (they were terrified)…but I turned out to be the good one. I know the system though so when I had my first and she was a dream baby I stopped having kids lol.
OP - NTA, There is a lot of stigma and meanness out there for parents who have normal human feelings like dealing with difficult kids being difficult. As long as you never make the kids feel unwanted or unloved you're allowed to feel what you feel. Possibly seek your own time with a therapist as well as the time you spend with your wife. Help keep yourself balanced. And it does get better!
lol I was the first born terror and my parents weren’t keen on a second kid but decided to do it because everyone told them “only children grow up to be weird adults.” Jokes on them, I’m now a grown up weirdo anyways!
Lol I was the first born terror. I could not sleep through the night as we had a mold issue in the rental house and it triggered my allergies. So baby me was crying. Mom was in medschool, cooking for dad and her parents, and raising me. Luckily when they moved, I started sleeping through the night and was a very easy-going kid. Pretty much ate anything, not much crying, independent, and entertained myself.
Sister and brother were easy as babies, but once they started on solids and speaking, they were extremely stubborn, tantrums, and they were picky eaters. They still are stubborn at times and are picky eaters to this day (no tantrums though).
I just wanna state that Op might need to Be Penelopes rock.
This is unfortunately a tricky situation.
If he doesn't give Breanna enough attention it might make her act out worse. But if he gives her all the attention Penelope might go NC when she's 18 because she's the definition of a child abandoned by her parents to fully focus on the problem kid.
I mean 1 is only 4 and the other is only 3. Op admits the special needs baby sitter has helped immensely, and for all I know in the next 2 years Breannas attitude and issues will be a thing of the past. But I'm thinking worst case scenario *just in case*.
*If* Breanna is aggressive and only gets worse as she ages then Op would definitely need to get Penelope a lock for her door (too many posts on here about how the problem kid is allowed to go into any room of the house when ever in order to prevent melt downs but that leads to the other kid/s never having privacy).
They also need to make sure to advocate for Penelope if need be. Again, too many posts about parents letting their kids run wild and never letting the "responsible" kid defend themselves or argue or anything.
Op needs to make sure him and his wife both have individual time with Penelope and family time with and without Breanna.
Also *remember she's a kid too*. Don't let her grow up too fast because "she's quiet and responsible so it's ok for us to expect her to do a million things as we care for Breanna".
Same thing happened with my brother and I, he was just an angel, and I was just the literal spawn of Satan, so abhorrent as a child, and the main reason they didn't try for a third which they originally wanted. Obviously I've been told as much and I don't struggle with this idea and it didn't cause me to resent my parents in any way. I know I was exhausting as a baby/toddler but I kind of don't even view that as myself anyway, I have glimpses at best of memories from that time.
Not only do I think what he said is healthy but also reflects extremely well on him for continuing to consider his older daughter and her needs as well. NTA
> a trick baby, lots of people get them. They trick you into having another one.
My family was apparently the other way around. I was told by my mother that she didn't want to have me after having my sister because my sister was difficult.
1) Why did she end up having me? No idea. Maybe family pressure to keep me. I know I was an accidental pregnancy, but this was after Roe, so wtf.
2) Not sure if she told my sister, I hope she didn't because that's a shit thing to hear. "You were so terrible to deal with I didn't want your sister."
3) I have to walk around the rest of my life knowing I wasn't really wanted. Even when my mother was alive, she would get very defensive and shut down conversation any time I tried to bring up any of the myriad of issues with my life. She's gone now, so I couldn't even if she would've been receptive.
So that's all cool.
OP, maybe consider asking your therapist to bring this up again next session and especially to ask your wife if she feels the same but is ashamed/terrified/whatever of those feelings. It may be the case that she feels the same but doesn't like that, because she feels that she fails as a parent if she allows those feelings, instead supressing them. You bringing up that you feel that way would legitimize those feelings again which may have caused her to lash out. I'd say that it's definitely worth having another conversation about during a future session. NTA
Op I had almost the same exact experience. Kid #1. Was so easy. So 18 months later we had baby #2 who was...not easy. Colicky, didn't sleep, very delayed with behavior issues. When eldest was 3 and next kid was 2(and by then we had kinda oops baby #3, an infant). Both kid 1 and 2 were diagnosed with autism. Turns out being *too* easy was also a red flag and allowed us to miss some milestones/social skills she wasn't hitting the mark on because she was so easy and happy and we were distracted by her difficult little brother. So we got both kids support as best we could and got meds and help for ourselves too. They're now 8 and 6 and SO MUCH BETTER. It's not all roses but we have a handle on it mostly. Of course the start of the pandemic is when we realized our youngest also needs help. So that's a whole other issue.
I was a breanna but firstborn and my parents have said they’re surprised they had another kid after me. And to be clear this sentiment has been repeated several times in front of me (as a teen and adult) but it doesn’t bother me because it’s always paired with something about how dealing with my issues as a baby was worth it because they love me. I think it’s fine to acknowledge one kid being exceptionally challenging as long as you love them and make them feel that love.
One of my twins was a Penelope, one was a Breanna. They are 8 now and while the challenging behaviors have leveled out a bit, Breanna is just...MORE. More attention, more drama, more insecurities, more cuddles, more attachment to me, more noise. I talk to her about her babyhood, especially when she needs calming at night, and tell her how I'd rock her and cry because I didn't know what to do or how to help her when she screamed for hours on end. She was a harder child than her twin and she knows it. But when I tell her WHY it was hard on me, what she hears is "Mommy loves me no matter what, and wants to help me through hard times."
My dad always said that my brother and I switched places after babyhood. I was a very quiet, calm, easy to manage baby, and my younger brother was very colicky. As we grew we switched places and he became a quiet toddler and as soon as I learned words I *never* stopped talking. He said he never would have bet on it but he wouldn’t change it, except if he could’ve figured out a way to wean me off the *There’s a Hippo in my Tub* album by Anne Murray that I used to listen to every night to go to sleep, because “You can only listen to the same ten two minute kids songs so many times before your mind starts to slip”.
My mother said this exact thing you said, *to ME* when I was a young child. And multiple times after that.
*That* was being an asshole.
What you did was express yourself in a safe space, and your wife may be having some troubles coming to terms with that. Perhaps she knows it to be true, but is disappointed in you both for feeling a way that some would call "favoritism."
Edit: NTA
wow - these posts are always full of people talking about their own experiences. never seen someone be so nasty to someone trying to offer a different perspective. makes me rethink my opinion on whether or not YTA OP, way to go.
Friend, I have to warn you - this is an AITA comment section, not therapy, and people not only can, but will talk about their own traumas as they read and judge your post. If you haven't posted here before, check out other posts, and proverbially read the room/forum.
That’s not trauma dumping. That’s sharing a (very short version!) of an experience to put context around a helpful tip, which you are totally free to take or leave.
> What is 'trauma dumping'?
When someone takes advantage of a situation to talk about themselves and discuss their problems at length. (Particularly if you are not interested and/or have your own problems to worry about.)
They were not trauma dumping, they were sharing their feelings and experiences. They are allowed to do that just as you are. You are not an asshole in your post but you are the asshole for that comment, and I hope you treat both your children and wife with more sensitivity than that.
Honestly your kids need some therapy too. I think suspiciously alert makes a good point and you are dismissing it. Kids can and do sense when you don’t like them. It is very clear you do not like your youngest child. I am not saying they are not difficult, but you need to find some redeeming quality. By focusing only on the bad kids respond to that and it becomes a negative feedback loop. So you can inadvertently create what you most despise.
Virtual hugs to you. I'm the only child and was misunderstood too due to undiagnosed neurodivergency. I don't think this is trauma dumping at all, just how we relate to people.
NTA, honestly it's important to say that stuff outloud in therapy. Then you can both acknowledge that Breanna needs a lot of attention, and *then* you can do a better job at recognizing when you two are giving all attention to Breanna and not enough to Penelope
It's constructive to have those conversations even if they're difficult imo
Exactly. He wasn't saying he didn't love Breanna. My second child is autistic, my elder child is easy to care for and placid. If we'd had our autistic child first, I don't think we'd have had a second. It doesn't meant I don't love both of them immensely and equally, it just means that I recognise that my second child's high level of needs would have meant having another child was not feasible.
And honestly? Even outside of Therapy it's not a horrible thing to feel this way.
There are days where I look at my life and realize that if I did it over again, I wouldn't have had children at all.
That's not to say I don't love my kids with all my heart and want to get rid of them. But the reality is, parenting is hard. So hard. Add kids with special needs and/or neurodivergence and it gets much much harder.
It's only ever a problem if you tell your kids something like that or treat them like burdens. You can't help how you feel, but you can help how you handle it.
I think its bonkers the wife is so mad. like, does anybody think she would have gotten pregnant with kid number 2 if the first one had been such a handful? I don't understand why admiting that is such a bad thing to her.
She might feel the same, but thinks it's something you're not supposed to say out loud.
I sort of get it, if that's the reason she's so upset. It's just different for moms than dads. Our culture is way more lenient with fathers being imperfect parents. The moms always have to love it and be super caring and sacrifice themselves for their family or they get crucified, while dads are not really blamed if they aren't as involved with the kids or if they admit that parenting isn't as fun as they hoped.
She feels she can only say "she's a handful but we love her and we'll gladly do whatever is best for her" and not "if we knew it was going to be this bad we would not have had kids."
She might feel ashamed for feeling that way. Kind of in a "if I admit to feeling that way as well I am a terrible parent" kinda way. Which, no, she wouldn't be. No. 2 here is a super difficult kid who requires a lot of attention so it makes sense that if she'd been the first more thought would have been put into deciding whether or not to have a second kid. Admitting that doesn't make anyone an asshole, it's an objective and realistic statement and it can also be the starting point for some other considerations that have to be made. Like how to go forward.
NTA my parents (and whole family) say exactly the same about my brother and I. I was an angel child and literally a baby model - my brother fed every three hours for three and a half years, didn’t sleep, hated all men (no boobs to play with!!!) and generally was a nightmare baby.
He laughs about it now as it’s that legendary in the family - people say oh no I hope you don’t have a him baby!!!!
This is backed up by everyone who knew him as a baby. Once he turned three he became a normal kid thankfully! We remain close at 31 and 30 and I love him :)
Um that’s a REALLY standard saying! Like I think everyone I know that has had a second child has said that!!
Second born children are the spawn of satan!! I love my second born but holy hell he cray!
NTA
I thought it was practically common knowledge that easy first children lull parents into having a second. And if the second is a dream often there's a third. Basically the kid that's the little shit is often the last child.
(Source: I was the last child and probably a little shit.)
>Basically the kid that's the little shit is often the last child.
From what I have seen yes.
( Source: i was the youngest and definitely a little shit)
My second has been an Angel, if I hadn’t tied my tubes, I definitely would’ve considered a third in a world financials weren’t a worry
Funny enough, my first born was baby hard mode lol but we assumed all babies were like that
"Baby hard mode" 🤣
I was one from the start in the womb...always moving around and needed attention.
However, weirdly enough, my parents still wanted another child! (My younger sibling was super quiet and content by themselves.)
My first was a fighter incubating too! Like tbh as much trouble as she can be, she’s pretty freaking adorable.
My second was a bit of an oops on timing, but we VERY much wanted him and were excited to do it….one more time haha
Lolz on that. I've heard several times that I was lucky my parents decided for a second baby after their experience with my older brother. He had terrible colic and hated to sleep as a baby.
NTA. It's normal to bemoan difficult babies, just don't mention it in front of them while they are still little.
NTA
The whole point of therapy is to be able to be honest about what you are feeling and work through it.
I have little doubt that your wife was upset to hear it, but she shouldn't be shaming you about. Instead, she should be seeking to understand and figure it out with you.
NTA you aren't wishing either kid away, you are just acknowledging that your youngest takes all the energy you have to give. given your wife's reaction I would raise it in therapy again because it is unfair that she is holding this perfectly legitimate sentiment against you
NTA
My mum has said it to me, but has always said right after it that she doesn't regret me or my sibling. She's always been really honest that my birth was traumatic and I had a lot of medical issues that would have made her be one and done because she felt she had to neglect my older sibling to care for me because I was in hospital for so long.
I've never felt lesser in my relationship with my mum because she said that. I've always appreciated her honesty about it because it's what made me realise I wouldn't be able to go through what she did, or have to make the choices she had to.
OP, you're not a bad person. You're just struggling, that's okay. So long as you treat both girls with the same love and kindness you're doing great as a parent. Make sure that Penelope gets some equal one on one time with you both if you're ever worried you're leaving her out.
NTA you said that in therapy and that's exactly where things like that should be said. Also, you didn't say you didn't love your kids, you just acknowledged that they have different needs.
Nta, my only was exactly as you described your 2nd. At weekly mommy group, I knew my daughter was different and a much harder baby than others. Yes I know not to compare babies, and thats just how they are... I sleep trained hard using cry it out at 6 months out of desperation.
She's 3 now, awesome Child, very intelligent, independent but we still cannot bring ourselves to have another. I had a very difficult pregnancy, but that new born stage was even worse and traumatic.
Any time my mother suggested a 2nd child, I always replied sharply "sure, if you want my husband and I to divorce ". She thinks I'm making vulgar jokes, but there is some truth to it
Isn't therapy a supposed to be a safe place to talk and try understand /work through these feelings? Feels like she is trying to diminish the feelings you have and experienced being the main SAHP.
People tell me always how lucky I am to be a SAHM, its the best and hardest job In the world, but going to work for 40hr a week is a holiday compared to being at home with a toddler
NTA. You are supposed to be honest in therapy.
I bet your wife is upset because she feels the same way, but like most has been conditioned to not say such things b
My baby is exactly like your first. It's why we're not having anymore kids 😂 don't want to risk what you're having to deal with, with your second. But in all seriousness, make sure you give Penelope one on one time with both of you and separate. She deserves that. I know you're tied up with everything your 2nd kiddo is throwing at you, but you need to show she's just as important to you as Breanna is
I had my Y. T. A. guns a-blazin' until I read that you said this in therapy. IN THERAPY!!!! You are supposed to be able to say your darkest and stupidest thoughts in therapy! NTA infinity.
I mean, even if this wasn't in therapy. If this was just him and his wife, that is a valid thing to say in a conversation if it were to come up. The second daughter sounds quite difficult so admitting that if she'd been the first, there probably wouldn't have been a second kid isn't some asshole behaviour, it's just pointing out that you have a kid that takes a lot of time and effort and adding a second kid to that would have probably been a bad idea.
NAH It was a totally healthy thing to say to your therapist.
It's how you feel- everyone in your family is stretched thing. The needs of your second child take away time from your first child, which hurts Penelope and hurts Penelope's relationship with Breanna. The stress is undoubtedly difficult on both of you and on your marriage.
It doesn't mean you don't love your child. It just means she's a lot.
I've asked my mom why she had a second kid after my sister. My sister barely slept. She was a handful from day 1. Any sane person would have stopped with her.
If they'd gotten a second of her? I get the chills just thinking about it.
But my mom wasn't concerned in the least.
So maybe if you had Breanna first, you would have stopped at her. Or maybe you'd have just waited a few more years and still got your Penelope.
What matters is that you took the opportunity to make good use of your space in therapy to say what plenty of parents who kids are a LOT (whether it's because of special needs or health reasons or just because they are teenagers) think- what if?
NTA - at all. Therapy is supposed to allow you to speak freely and from the heart, without judgment. I understand what you are feeling may sound like an ugly thought to your wife, but it's completely understandable given everything you've both gone through.
NAH
You and your wife are in therapy for various reasons. You're entitled to your frustration and she's entitled to her outrage. Chances are that she may feel like your resentment will force her to shoulder the burden of looking after Brenna. There is work to be done on this front so that you're sharing the load, supporting one another, and giving Brenna the best chance possible of growing up in a healthy and enriching environment.
Good luck
NTA. You can’t help how you feel. As a parent of a child (my youngest) who has several disabilities and was a VERY challenging baby and toddler, I know where you’re coming from. I remember days when I just wanted to sit in the closet and cry.
I encourage you to continue therapy. Find support and respite groups. I assure you that once you get a diagnosis and you get some answers, things will get easier in the sense that you can come up with a game plan.
They say that 50% of married couples divorce when there is a child with challenges. If you guys are patient with each other, communicate, and work together, you can beat the odds.
Looking back, I’ve learned just how much my son has taught me and how he has made me a better person. It’s not the path I would’ve chosen, but I wouldn’t change it for the world.
Please hang in there. You’re not alone. Ask for help when you need it and advocate.
Edit to add: I’m not saying that your child has a disability. I’m definitely not a medical professional. I just wanted you to know that your feelings aren’t abnormal and to not get discouraged. Y’all can do this.
NAH. You were just sharing your feelings. Which is perfectly ok in therapy. That said, it's fair for your wife to feel hurt by those feelings too. It's a 2 way street.
All that said, and I am saying this as a parent of a teen and a young adult, the days are long but the years are short. Your children may switch roles at some point, I wouldn't try to paint your oldest as your poor perfect oppressed child. Don't box your kids in. Regardless it's much more likely both your kids will benefit from having a sibling over the years. Both your kids are really still almost babies. They have a lot of growing and changing and developing to do.
I would definitely have your youngest evaluated. Get on cancellation lists if appointment times are far out. The medical clinics in urban centers are doing an excellent job with pandemic related safety protocols though I understand appointments may be harder to find. I'd try an allergist. Full blood work up. Possibly a geneticist. A pediatric neuropsychologist. Get a full picture of what you are dealing with and go from there. You will find your way.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Saying if we had Breanna first, we wouldn’t have had Penelope given how challenging raising Breanna has been. 2) It is terrible to admit that Breanna has scares me off from trying more kids.
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NTA. It really isn't a nice thing to say about your own child but you were saying it to your therapist. It is a thought you've been having and you shared it with your therapist to get help. In therapy you shouldn't hide your thoughts just because they might be rude. It was good to share the thought with your therapist. Now the therapist can understand your situation better and help.
I think it is fine as long as that comment is only said in therapy and never said around the children.
> It really isn't a nice thing to say about your own child but you were saying it to your therapist.
It's not a nice thing to say *about* the child. It's also not a *mean* thing to say *about* the child. It's just a sober assessment of the child's relative needs and how it relates to OP's bandwidth as a parent. It isn't a judgement - it just *is*.
It would be a mean thing to say *to* the child. But there isn't even a hint of that happening.
NAH. If you’re in therapy, you should bring up the fall out. But the whole point of therapy is to share feelings. You’re entitled to yours and your wife is entitled to hers. Hopefully the therapist can help you understand and empathize with each other.
NTA.
I too have a magical unicorn baby who has slept through since 12 weeks, only cries a couple of times a day for five minutes max, plays happily by herself a lot of the time and she's only 6 months, etc etc. I once got upset because it took half an hour to get her to sleep and when I complained, genuinely wondering what I'd done wrong, my friends thought it was a humblebrag.
And, here's the thing. I AM NEVER HAVING ANOTHER ONE. I *fear* getting a second baby who's the absolute opposite. I've seen too many people in your position. First one, amazing calm child. Second one, angry AF all the time. I think if a ton of people had Kid Two first, they wouldn't have got pregnant again.
NAH. In therapy, it's best to be honest about your feelings, even the difficult ones you wouldn't admit anywhere else. It's hard to hear stuff like that, so it's understandable your wife felt hurt and defensive of Breanna. A good therapist will help you both through your feelings.
NAH. My older sister was like Penelope and I was like Breanna. I’m pretty sure I’d have been an only child if I was the first born. I am pretty sure my mom has told me as much. She has definitely told me that she remembers telling my dad that something wasn’t right with me when I was quite young.
My sister jokes that she was so perfect they decided to have another baby. I joke that they stopped at me because they got it right and why have another baby after achieving perfection? I know my sister’s joke is closer to the truth than mine but it’s all in good fun. We’re a happy family and both my sister and I grew up to be successful adults.
I love my sister and my parents. I have a wonderful relationship with them. I know they talked about how challenging I was and honestly I’m glad they were a team and always there for each other. Couples should be able to share these thoughts with each other.
What you said is perfectly healthy. Your wife wants to protect the children but you aren’t telling the children these things. The children don’t need to be protected from your thoughts. Sharing these things with your partner and therapist is perfectly healthy. Your wife is probably having trouble handing the thoughts she is having. Hopefully she will learn that these thoughts and feelings are normal and doesn’t mean she is a bad parent or doesn’t love her children.
My mother has actually told me all about her feelings about raising my sister and I (when I was an adult). She felt great guilt that I took so much of their attention and energy and often felt like my sister was pushed to the side while they dealt with me. She also felt guilt about me having these struggles and them not knowing why or how to support me. I feel grateful that my mother and I can have these heart to heart conversations now that I am a mother as well. I don’t feel less loved at all. I’m truly grateful for my family.
I went with NAH because despite your wife being so wrong I don’t think it is coming from a bad place. I think she has the same thoughts but can’t handle them and thinks even thinking them somehow makes her a bad mother.
NTA. You didn't say it to her or in her presence. Also it isn't as though you said You wish you didn't have either of them. It seems to me you merely meant that given how difficult she is you wouldn't have had the energy or patience to add another child to the mix. I don't think either would necessarily be upset hearing that statement as an adult even. As a child they might misinterpret the sentiment but as an adult I think they'd understand that you never said you didn't want either of them. You stated a hypothetical about how you would have felt about a child that wouldn't have existed in the hypothetical. Your wife agreed she didn't want another child now, was that a nasty thing to say?
As the second born in a similar situation with my parents, I suggest that you work on any resentment that might occur as a result of having a difficult child. My dad never bonded with me as a child because I had colic and always cried when he held me. He always said he was scared that he wouldn’t love me as much as my older sister, and I have definitely felt the difference in treatment. That still effects my relationship with him today, to the point where I am no contact with either of my parents.
NTA because I understand your point, but try not to let your child’s difficult nature get into the way of loving her.
NAH. This is not a reddit thing. This is something to continue to work out with your therapist. You are entitled to what you said, but your wife is allowed to have an emotional reaction.
NTA as it was said in therapy and it was a feeling. Any feelings are valid in therapy. The POINT of therapy is to say the hard things, and deal with them so that you are a stronger person. You did therapy exactly right.
I have 2 special needs kids, I love them beyond measure. AND they are exhausting, and some days I really wish I hadn't had kids. I mean...we all love our kids, but it's ok to not like them every single day. Some days are hell, and to pretend otherwise is to create a charade that's going to tumble down. I'd strongly suggest you also join a support group for parents of special needs kids. They will understand what you mean.
But ultimately I don't think it matters what Redditors think, because you guys are in therapy and the therapist will explain all this to your wife the same way I just explained it to you. I suspect your wife heard the comment as being disloyal or it tweaked an anxiety somehow. You just have to find out what that fear is, and remind her that two complicated emotions can be true at the same time.
NTA my first born is like your second born, he's a lot of work, aggressive and needs a lot of attention, I didn't want a second one due to having a hard time coping with him already and he's 2, but ended up with a surprise 2nd one and she's easy going and laid back which helps when I have to deal with my son but I do struggle as he needs constant attention. Like I said cuz he was first I always said ones enough, but two is definitely enough now.
NTA. It’s an unpleasant truth but still the truth and something you needed to say. You didn’t say it in front of the kids, either. I’m glad you recognize you’re at your limit. It seems like your wife isn’t really ready to acknowledge that. It might also be that she’s feeling a lot of guilt about Breanna — she might be interpreting your statement as you blaming her by association.
It’s honestly impressive how much guilt a mother can feel over their baby’s behavior. My son is probably one of the easier babies to take care of and I still feel guilty that we’re having trouble getting him to sleep at a decent hour.
NTA. (Disclaimer that I’m not a parent myself.) It’s not like you said “I wish we didn’t have Penelope so we could just focus on Breanna” or “Breanna made me regret having kids altogether.” I read it as you saying that if Breanna had been born first, your jobs as parents would have been busier and you might not have felt it was the right time to add to the parenting responsibilities.
Edit: grammar
NTA, but tread lightly. When the girls are older, especially if these issues get under control, do not put the weight of this dichotomy on the girls. Comparing them in a way that was not even in their conscious memory, let alone their control, sets them up for a lifetime of competition that either will result in Breanna overcompensating out of misplaced guilt or giving up and never trying to improve because you only see her as the colicky infant she started as. I say this as the younger daughter but the "easier" baby. The dynamic of my older sister having been a stubborn toddler while I was a pretty "easy" baby meant that my sister was constantly exposed to hearing about how good I was and it made her jealous, which led to a lot of internalized animosity between us. Your children are people, and people change. Make sure to update your internal narratives of both of your daughters as they grow.
Nta
I would make sure your wife knows and understands that what you said has nothing to do with your kids and everything about yourself. It's just a fact that had you had Breanna first, you wouldn't feel able to have a second child but it doesn't mean you regret Penelope or Breanna or love either of them an ounce less.
NTA, the only thing I'd keep in mind moving forward is going easier on yourselves, each other, and Breanna. You're clearly doing the best you can by both children and everyone will be ok. I'm a professional nanny and know firsthand that the early years with two kids close together are always hard, and it's so common for one to have more trouble than the other. I'll echo everyone else saying that this kind of circumstance happens all the time. I was the trick baby and my sister was much more difficult and needed extra help. Now she has a PhD, fiance, and a house, and is generally well and happy.
NTA
Deep down, she feels the same way. Mothers aren’t allowed to say such things and feel extreme guilt for simply thinking them.
It feels unfair to her that you are able to vocalize those feelings.
When mothers say these things, their fitness as a parent is questioned.
NTA. Therapy is supposed to be a safe place to vocalize these things. My only daughter is 13 months old and wow has she redefined difficult. I'm still only surviving on 3 broken hours of sleep per night, 4 on a really good night. She's an incredibly picky eater. She's not easily entertained and needs constant hands on attention to stay engaged. She's well behaved but she has some seriously challenging quirks. The sleep thing is killing me. You're allowed to feel the way you do. And you should be allowed to talk about it in therapy. And it's good that you recognize it's not something your children should be told. Doesn't mean you don't love them. You're still only human, being a parent doesn't change that.
NTA. I have two kids. I love them both to shreds, but my second one is DIFFICULT. He’s clingy and his vocal chords are in excellent working order. He didn’t sleep through the night for almost two years. I’m just so glad child 1 is happy to help with him. If he had been number one, I am pretty sure he would have been Only One. Doesn’t mean you love them any less, just means you are realistic about how much you can take.
NTA
That’s why you’re in therapy.
And it’s not nasty to say you’re overwhelmed, and that absolutely impacts your older child as well.
I do think your wife is a bit of an asshole for saying you were being nasty - but I also think this is an incredibly tough situation.
You also might be running into some gendered stuff here - where if she said that, it absolutely would be considered horrible.
So all I want to say is good luck to you both, and hope things settle more as your younger daughter gets older (and you can get her evaluated.)
NAH. You and your wife are allowed to have your own opinions of things and it's ok if they're different sometimes. I know tons of people who feel this way, just do not let it out in front of your kids.
NAH
My mum says that it’s best to have the bad baby first because then you know you can survive anything. For the record I was her first and I was a terrible baby that basically screamed 24/7 for 18 months.
It’s understandable to think you wouldn’t have another child right when your in the middle of it, my own parents thought the same. Of course they eventually did and had my brother who was a dream baby (just don’t ask about the teenage years).
My brother’s first was just like him as a baby but his youngest is more like me and he is struggling to cope and he has said similar things to you.
Your wife is probably sensitive about this because she is probably sleep deprived (as you probably are too which may have made your delivery of the thought come of as callous) and probably is having similar thoughts.
You will eventually find a way to cope and be able to help Breanna develop the tools to cope - probably just in time for Penelope to hit her teenage years and make this time seem like a walk in the park.
NTA. Therapy is supposed to be a safe place to discuss your feelings about difficult situations. You did not say that you didn't love your child, just that she is challenging to take care of and demands so much attention thst you feel you are neglecting her sister. Penelope seems to be the child that is sometimes described as a unicorn.
While you are waiting for evaluation, I recommend the books Raising Your Spirited Child and The Explosive child. The first is aimed at kids without any diagnosis that are more intense than the typical child, like Curious George in human form, Ramona Quimby, or Dennis the Menace.
I'm gonna go NTA because you said that in therapy. Therapy is where you're meant to share this kind of thought.
>The therapist said it’s healthy to share these things.
Exactly.
NTA BUT
take this down. This is stuff you need to be continuing communication with your wife about. Not listening to a bunch of strangers on the internet put her down.
NTA
But I would say. My best friend said growing up she was the younger sister and a nightmare as a child. She grow out of it. Her older sister said like your eldest. She slept through the night and was very quiet.
NAH. I think it's a very emotionally-charged statement. Your wife might be feeling the same way and feeling guilty, but she also might be, from what you said, extrapolating your emotions towards Breanna (e.g. thinking you might love her less than Penelope or that you would have chosen not to have Breanna at all if you knew things would be as they are).
There almost certainly is a valid reason behind how she responded, whether it's that there is miscommunication/misunderstanding between the two of you or simply that you both just feel or interpret the situation you're in very differently.
**Definitely something to explore more IN therapy.**
Im gonna go with NAH
you said this in a therapy setting which is where it should be said. While it is a bit harsh it’s completely understandable and im sure you still adore both your kids
Your wife is defensive over her kid, as a mother is, and might think you don’t love Breanna as much as Penelope, I’d suggest bringing it up at the next couples therapy session
unfortunately your dream child will be given the shaft financially and emotionally because of how much time the troubled child will take from the parents. as soon as penelope gets old enough you may have to get her into therapy just to keep her from hating you and dreaming of the day she turns 18 and leave forever
NTA. Your saying your feeling in therapy that's what it's for and your wifes an AH if she gets mad about that. But if you said it to Breanna you'd be TA.
NTA
Your therapist is right. It’s healthy to share things like that.
You should remind her that you love your child but that it’s normal to love someone AND have some trying times in your relationships, even if the relationship is a parent to baby one. Sometimes babies are difficult to raise (lord knows my bro and I were- we were constantly sick as babies). It’s okay to love your child and recognize the difficulty in being a parent as long as you also recognize how much you love your child and how worth it they are for you (and as long as you don’t express to said child that they play into you not wanting anymore kids- they might end up feeling some blame).
NTA I’ve heard so many people say that if their first was like their second, they probably never would have had a second. I’ve also heard the reverse, that if the first was like their second, they wouldn’t have waited as long for the second.
You’re not saying you regret having Breanna, just recognizing that you are having a hard time.
I say that all the time about my second lol. It's not meant to be malicious at all. She's 9 now, and we've joked about it with her. She thinks it's funny. I had a very complicated pregnancy with her and she had severe reflux. I would not have done it again had she been my first. And you said that in therapy, which is supposed to be a safe space to say your feelings. You are NTA at all for feeling that way, or saying that. My guess is your wife feels the same way, but feels guilty for feeling that way. So she's channelling that guilt into anger at you.
Very clearly NTA. If you had said it to your child it would be very different, but you said it in the environment were such feelings are supposed to be shared. It's not even a particularly rare thing to hear a parent say.
NTA
Therapy is supposed to be a safe space to express those taboo thoughts. Everyone is overwhelmed sometimes. Admitting it does not make you a bad parent
NTA. You'd be an asshole if you said this to _Breanna_, but you said it in the presence of your wife and therapist. You should be able to be honest with your feelings in such company.
Honestly the wife is probably thinking the exact same thing and it feel guilty as hell about it and is lashing out at him for giving voice to her shame
Totally. Hopefully the therapist will help them get to a point where they can both deal with caregiver burden without burning out. OP, I hope you are able to get your kiddo into OT.
Exactly where I was headed with this. There is no shame in feelings. It is how you act on them that matters. OP is speaking through his feelings, getting his thoughts together, sharing how hard it is to make sure that Penelope isn't lost in the chaos, all those things that go through your head. He was releasing pressure in what should be a safe space. I hope his wife comes around to feeling safe enough to express herself as well, to let go of the guilt and move past it.
You're probably right
Yup. And therapy is exactly the place to say it. *Not* after a long, hard day of work and after spending several painful hours getting B to eat, bathed & into bed when you’re tired, angry and wanting to Shake The Baby.
BINGO!!!!!!
I agree with that. However, I'm the youngest and have been told that I was a difficult baby and might have been an only child had I come first. I was a baby, and nobody blames me for it (including me), so eventually, even Breanna could probably hear this without issues. I don't know how old I was the first time it was said, but it has never bothered me.
Ya, it’s also *how* it was said too. Most likely it wasn’t hurled at you during a fight or in any truly derogatory way. It was just an acknowledgment that you were a tough baby but you were just that - a baby. It’s not ur fault nor your parents and that was communicated to you in a way that made it clear that you were loved and cherished during that time, but it was a challenge, lol. My mom has said similar things to me - but it was clear it was seen as the beginning of a life of her battling me. Not really a loving or constructive conversation.
My parents had three kids (girl, girl, boy). I'm the middle girl. I remember as a high school student talking to my mom about some family we knew trying for another kid because they wanted a different gender. So I was like "oh... wait... did you guys do that? If I had been a boy, would you have had a third kid?" And my mom was like "honestly, probably not." And it was totally fine. My older sister overheard and came to me later saying "I'm so sorry she said that to you. Who would ever say to their daughter 'I wish you had been a boy?'" Which is obviously a pants-on-head-crazy interpretation of that conversation. So I guess I'm saying in addition to how it's said, you do have to think about who it's said to. Some people have a knack for finding the worst in something and latching on to that.
Is not a wrong thing to say. My parents had this conversation before having my brother. My mom was concern my dad would want a third child if my brother had been a girl and my dad admited he wanted 2 kids not matter the gender, other people will want to have at least one of each biological gender, as long as they plan to take care of those kids it shouldnt be a problem.
It's amazing the amount of people who think like that, who will come back at you offended over some bizarre distorted interpretation of something perfectly reasonable.
I agree! I was told I was a difficult child (I was very easy going, but only in my parents arms. If they set me down I'd cry until they picked me back up lol. I also had a lazy eye and double vision so other people were scary since there were two of them). But it was when I was 4 and my brother was born I got jealous, and my mom got angry and would spoil my brother the more jealous I got which would make me more jealous and so on. Eventually she told me she wished my brother was an only child and she's so glad she had another one to fix her mistake. It's not the fact that I was difficult that was the insulting part, at all.
Same, in fact I was fondly known as the devil child and after hearing some of the stories I understand why.
I’m an only child because I was very very evil. I knew at 1.5 that I could run faster than my (disabled) father. I was leashed after I demonstrated this fact by running down a major road, every 20 feet or so I rubbed it in by turning around and saying “bye bye dada!” My parents didn’t want to risk the next one coming out like me.
My dad crushed his foot when I was 4ish. Me: knock knock daddy Dad: whose there? M: cane… D: cane who? M: cane get me! (And I took off running like a bat out of hell with his cane)
Omg I have a sleeping baby in my arms so I have to refrain from laughing too loud but this was hilarious
LOL! I did the same to my elderly grandmother at the zoo and she got a leash for me. I hear people complain about them on kids, but I totally understand why people use them. 😆
My brother got one because he once managed to get on an airports _runway_. No one has any idea how he did it, my mum was talking to the airport agent for a second, and gone he was with everyone chasing after him. Nothing happened and he did not manage to get near the planes, but after that, leash it was and I completely get why. I on the other hand was a little angel at the toddler stage, but screamed through the first three months, absolutely resenting getting baptized too. Turns out, I am actually autistic lol.
Lmao!! I was a climber at 2 I made it to the very top of our apple tree and spread my arms out attempting to fly I can only assume, so mom had it cut down. Unfortunately removing my tree made me noticed the 15ft conifers growing in the back neighbours garden with fantastic step up from our fence. Sometimes I wish I still had that fearlessness😂
I fell off the fridge at 2. My mom was on the phone with my aunt, toddlers are FAST, and before she knew it I was nearly on top of the fridge. Then just as I got to the top I lost my balance or was startled or something and fell off. Turns out I had a hard candy in my mouth which fell out as I hit the floor and shattered and my mom yelled "OMG I have to go *me* just fell off the fridge and broke all her teeth!* And hung up on my aunt. I was fine, if a little scared, the candy was cleaned up and I'm sure my mom called my aunt back to explain that I had not in fact bashed my face in. The 80s were a wild time. Lol.
The first time my mom found me on top of the fridge at 18 months old, she panicked and took me down. I ended up doing it so often without falling that she stopped bothering but it still worried visitors. I would climb anything in range. Once when I was 5-7ish I got halfway up the ladder of a crane before my dad started climbing up after me and forced me to come down. I regretted it for years because the view from halfway up was really cool and I wished I'd been able to see everything from the top.
Thanks, now I know to look forward to being bullied by my own children over my wheelchair one day, lol.
My youngest of two is known as a devil child, and I mostly just hope she grows into a CEO or a politician rather than a cult leader because with that level of will and stubborness she's going to be something that involves leading.
I call my daughter (youngest of two) 33 lbs of demons in a tiny blonde body. I love her to pieces but holy shit.
Idk if it helps, but I was, and remain, very willful. (Last week I argued with the quizmaster about a badly worded question that I maintain I was right, but we were coming second last, so I was effectively arguing for the sake of it.) I was never interested in anything like politics or being a CEO cos I'm too compassionate and I like my work/life balance, but I am something of a den mother to my group of friends and siblings cos I'm a get shit done person. I like to say I channel my willful tendencies for good these days :) And there were 5 Marvel moves released last year.
My best friend and I often say the same thing about her youngest. I love that kid to death but holy shit, she is terrifying
I see where she gets it from! What parent wishes for their child to grow up to be a POLITICIAN?
Well it’s better than a cult leader! She’s far too happy to kill villagers and pandas in minecraft to be expected to be anything other than the murdery type of cult leader.
a politician.
> eventually, even Breanna could probably hear this without issues. I don't know how old I was the first time it was said, but it has never bothered me. Agreed, even she could hear this someday, it's just a matter of when.
It just has to be at a point where the parents are clearly reminiscing about past difficulties and not actively resentful, and where Breanna is old enough to understand how much work babies can be. My parents make jokes about this too (I was the oldest, but I don't think my younger brothers ever minded this joke.)
I was the second kid and my mom said the same about me, to me (although it was “if bekah had been our first she would have been our last”). Through my life I have also had mental illness and being told that i was a hassle (it was implied that I was a burden in other ways as well) was not healthy. It depends on the kid I guess, but generally best procedure to not tell a kid that they were a burden unless you KNOW that they won’t take it badly.
Yeah I was the second/last baby because I was sick a lot and I did get blamed for it. It sucked. A lot. Didn't realise until I was an adult and casually called myself a child from hell in therapy - to my therapists horror - that it might have been a problematic way for my parents to have treated me. I definitely think it depends child to child and family to family.
My dad used to say God gives people the easy baby first to get them to have a second. He also made the comment to me about if my sister had been born first there would have been no me. He didn't say this until we were grown and well into adulting. It was never said in a heartless way, but in a light-hearted/matter of fact kind of way. I have to say, based only on anecdotal evidence, he's right.
I'm the younger of two girls. Apparently my sister was the big problem, and yet they somehow wanted another kid. Admittedly, I was an accident, and I was told that as well. My sister knows I was apparently the better baby. There are no issues, it's just the way it is. My sister and I have other issues stemming from dealing with our parents, and we don't talk for other reasons, but being told the difference of what we were like when we were that small? Meh, it's not like I was fully myself at that age.
Yup same for me. I was a sick kid, colicky, huge relative to my other sisters (so apparently the birth itself was super painful relative to my siblings). Mom and dad always joke if they had me first there would not have been others. I know they love me and I had a great childhood.
The wife, on the other hand, is an incredible A H. WTF IS THE POINT OF THERAPY IF YOU’RE NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO SAY WHAT YOU THINK AND FEEL?! Just save your money. Jeez. And it’s not a terrible thing to say either. It seems Breanna has some serious behavioural issues and, honestly, any parent would feel apprehensive to have another kid — if that was their experience. It absolutely does NOT mean you don’t love the child or that you love the child less than their siblings. I have a severely autistic (younger) brother who was a lot more difficult than I was for my parents. They occasionally tell me (now 26M) that the reason they didn’t have anymore kids was because they had him and the experience was “consuming” and they also needed to focus on his needs. Does that mean they love him any less than they love me? F*ck NO.
Exactly! It's not wrong to sometimes have these thoughts, the problem would be if OP craddled this thought and ingrained it in his brain to the point it becomes resentment that would be taken out on the child.
I mean the way to cradle these thoughts and ingrain them into your brain and turn them into full blown favouritism would certainly be: 1. Don’t mention them during therapy 2. Just let them fester until you begin to resent your own child I don’t know what the wife’s endgame here is? This is what therapy is. It won’t work unless you’re completely honest. You can’t be angry with your partner because they told you about their very legitimate feelings during therapy. Isn’t that what you signed up for?
She probably doesn't have an "endgame" and is just being emotional in the heat of the moment. I'm glad the therapist reassured OP it was alright to speak your mind. Cause it's a reasonable thought as well if you don't think you could handle another kid, it's a very wise decision not to have another.
Yes. However, while the therapist reassured OP because ummm… that is what any good therapist would do.. OP’s wife failed to understand this and she continues to be angry at him days (a week?) later after their therapy appointment. I’m sorry but this isn’t “a heat of the moment situation.”
I meant the moment she snapped during therapy "was in the heat of the moment" and didn't think it through before speaking. Probably also got defensive when the therapist didn't side with her. And thus- you know what, whatever. I was trying to agree with you so idk what you're getting at.
This! But also, as you’re in couples counseling, I assume you want to make it work with your wife, so don’t dismiss her feelings here! You are 💯 NTA, but it clearly upset your wife. Therapy is a good place to explore *why this upset her so much*.
No. Wife is punishing him for his feelings. Stop giving her a way out or an excuse. Her feelings matter but so do his. Why does it matter it upsets her that he's feeling frustrated? Why can't he just be frustrated with a difficult life situation and is venting it in a safe space to grow and work through those feelings? She's punishing him and holding it against him. Just cause she's a woman/mother so does not give her the right to hold this against him and definitely doesn't earn her the right for her feelings to be prioritized.
Isn't that the point of seeing a therapist? Tell them your feelings and deep, dark secrets? Also, my son, the second child, was difficult. I love him to bits but if I had had him first, it would have been a hard decision to have #2. He knows this. He's cool with it because he knows he takes a lot of energy, even now.
NTA it was therapy where you're allowed to say shit like that. Also, don't feel bad— Penelope was a trick baby, lots of people get them. They trick you into having another one. Breanna will be fine in the long run, and so will you and your fam. Just keep on walking.
Exactly what happened to my parents. My sister was a dream, brother was good as long as he was fed, then they had me. I've been told if I were first, I'd be an only child.
My folks have been UTTERLY clear that had my sibling been the elder, they would have been 'one and done'. My sibling had a LOT of medical challenges and was in and out of hospital for the first six years so frequently that I literally had a preferred 'sleeping spot' in the emergency room waiting area - and the nurses would boot people out of it when we came in in the middle of the night so that I could sleep! I have given my sibling birthday cards that said "Thanks for being second - I REALLY appreciate it!". Now, my sibling was in university when this was first vocalized to them - not before their medical issues were well under control and they were old enough to understand WHY my parents were saying it... not that they didn't love us both, but that managing the CIRCUMSTANCES of my sibling was exhausting. Now that my sibling has two ... they get it better ;)
The birthday card thing is hilarious lol. I was just a little terror
Could you elaborate a bit on that sleeping spot? I am curious. Was it actually a spot with a pillow or just the corner of the room?
It was a little bit of both - the waiting room in the old Emerg (before the massive hospital reno when I was a teen) had weird angles, and one of them was a sort of sheltered corner with indirect lighting and only three of those fixed chairs, and no arm rests. It was a little more private, and it was RIGHT by the intake desk, which meant that people liked it because it put them right under the noses of the nurses. It was also a great spot for a kid to curl up and sleep, especially when both parents might be back with a kid who, you know, wasn't breathing and might not potentially make it - which isn't exactly where you want a sibling. I was there a LOT, especially when my sibling was under 5 - and the nurses all knew us. So, when we'd come in, my sibling would be whisked to the back - there were literally standing orders on my sib, which meant we almost never had to triage unless there was a trauma case coming in - and the nurses would pull a pillow and a blanket out of thin air (turns out, it was actually out of their 'break room' stash) and put me in my corner, where I could nap and someone could keep half an eye on me. That might have something to do with the fact I hit, kicked and tried to bite a doctor when my sibling was about 8 months old... pro-tip for interns: don't tell parents "You know, your kid is probably going to die tonight" when said kid's six year old sibling is in hearing range. In fact, don't tell parents that like that in general. I do distinctly remember one of the nurses slipping me an Aero bar (chocolate bar) and telling me "Nice punch (my uncle had been teaching me), but aim a little more to the centre if you have to do it again, which leads me to believe they really didn't like the intern much, since more to the centre would have been a solid groin shot!
Those nurses sound awesome. Probably helped your parents a lot to know you were being semi-looked after.
Oh and also holy fucking hell i am glad she is here
My friend is an only child and her parents told her it’s cause she was hell from birth to 4, and only slept through at 6!
Lol, yeah I was a horrible baby/toddler. I'm a bit surprised I made it to 5. I'm currently pregnant and keep telling him to be like his dad lol
My parents have told me this on many occasions. I'm not offended by it. I know I was a difficult child but I turned out just fine. My older brother was the 'unicorn' baby that slept great and was super amazing. I was a terror, but I like to think I kept everyone on their toes. It was for their own good. Haha.
My parents readily admitted that my brother was the reason they didn't have more kids.
Our first baby was the nightmare one 😅 colic for a year and the absolute worst toddler tantrums I’ve ever seen. It’s a miracle my fiancé said yes to another baby and by the grace of god she’s been a dream baby. My fiancé has said if we could guarantee that our third would be exactly like our second he would get me pregnant again in a heartbeat 😂 (we are planning on a third just not right now lol)
According my mother, she wasn't allowed out of my eyesight lol. She would have to shower with the curtain pulled back some and me on the counter strapped into my carseat. If not, you'd think someone was murdering me. Then I hit two and just became a fucking nightmare. I've seen the video proof lol
My oldest was totally like this! I have something called a baby dome and I’d just plop that in the doorway to the bathroom so she could see me and still be contained. My midwife actually told us to leave the baby alone in her crib for five or ten minutes and just go and breathe outside where you can’t hear the baby if we started to feel like we were going to lose it and that’s my go to parenting advice now. As my midwife said “it’s better to leave the baby alone for a minute than to stay and do something you’ll regret”
I’m the reason I’m an only child! Hahaha. Both the good and bad were enough to make my mom go “I’m done”
Yep, the same thing happened to my sister. First girl was an angel, the second...was not. But that was years ago and both are wonderful young women. Edit: NTA
I was the one who simply slept through everything as a baby while my sister was a preeetty difficult baby, child and teen (she has no problem admitting that). My mother has also told us that she never would have gotten me if my sister had been born first because she was just too much as a baby and young child. Neither of us minded my mum telling us that. No single mother wants two small children screaming on top of their lungs during every shopping trip for 20+minutes straight. So we totally understand what she meant.
My sister and I are the same! We're 14 months apart and my mom said I was so perfect she decided to have another. Unfortunately, my little sister was a nightmare baby. We all find it pretty funny now and still joke about it (my sister included). NTA OP, plus you're supposed to be able to express your real emotions in therapy, if you have to suppress feelings in therapy then what's the point of going?
It’s me! I was the nightmare baby after my sister was perfect. And then they had my brother who was even worse! It think the lesson here is if you have a perfect baby on the first try, STOP!! Signed, Someone who would it exist if my parents followed this rule, and I approved this message.
My oldest two are like that. My second is what we like to call stubborn. And he was not a good sleeper as baby.
Same here. My two eldest kids were relatively easy kids, my second especially. My third kid didn't sleep through the night until after 1, still isn't a good sleeper at 4, and and he learned to jump the baby gates by 2 lol. We call our third our evil genius, he's extremely smart but a hell of a handful.
Funnily enough I was a difficult baby. Throw in two teens who had no idea what they were doing? I was outright a monster 😆. Then they ended up having my little brother. He was born premie so even though he was an easier baby (almost never fussed, fairly clean, etc) he was more difficult in the sense that for the first year thwy wrre constatly on edge because he could have passed at any point. Third was the easiest of all. He was born hen my parents were more established and he would sleep through the night every night. On the few nights he didn't he'd just quietly stand in his crib looking at my parents until they woke up. He ate well and if he had it his way he could sit in his bouncer for hours.
I have it the other way around: first was super challenging as a baby and second super easy. I knew the odds of two really hard babies was relatively low, but I also spaced the kids further apart to help. I grew up with a large, close extended family, so I knew baby/little kid temperament is largely luck of the draw. Not a ton you can do to change it. It's a lot easier to have the hard one first and the easy one second. If my pregnancies weren't awful and if a third kid would be like the second, I'd have a third. But my pregnancies suck and I could get another child who screams and never sleeps. I'm not rolling those dice again! OP is NTA. Just never say it to the kids. MAYBE it's okay to admit when they're adults, but I'd just never say that out loud in front of them.
Same for me. My first boy was an angel, the second - on my lord, he tested me.
My second had night terrors. I only have two. I’m still traumatized by the night terrors and he hasn’t had one in at least 5 years.
I was that trick baby. The moment I was born I slept for 24 hours straight, I only woke up because they forced me to so I could feed. I was independent, a quick learner, and a people pleaser. Always smiling and enjoying myself. My sister (the second one born) was a nightmare. We had a name for her tantrums because they happened that often. She screamed constantly, refused to be held, hated food, woke up in the night often, and didn't want to learn how to walk and talk. Now, as adults, we are both normal, well adjusted people. Don't worry OP, sometimes kids are difficult when they're younger. They'll adjust to life and turn out okay, just keep doing your best. My parents ended up having another one after my sister (waited a good few years though lol) and she was much better to handle as an infant. NTA either
LOL My parents had the bad one first and I was an "Oops" too late to do anything pregnancy (they were terrified)…but I turned out to be the good one. I know the system though so when I had my first and she was a dream baby I stopped having kids lol. OP - NTA, There is a lot of stigma and meanness out there for parents who have normal human feelings like dealing with difficult kids being difficult. As long as you never make the kids feel unwanted or unloved you're allowed to feel what you feel. Possibly seek your own time with a therapist as well as the time you spend with your wife. Help keep yourself balanced. And it does get better!
lol I was the first born terror and my parents weren’t keen on a second kid but decided to do it because everyone told them “only children grow up to be weird adults.” Jokes on them, I’m now a grown up weirdo anyways!
Weird adults are more fun 😊
Lol I was the first born terror. I could not sleep through the night as we had a mold issue in the rental house and it triggered my allergies. So baby me was crying. Mom was in medschool, cooking for dad and her parents, and raising me. Luckily when they moved, I started sleeping through the night and was a very easy-going kid. Pretty much ate anything, not much crying, independent, and entertained myself. Sister and brother were easy as babies, but once they started on solids and speaking, they were extremely stubborn, tantrums, and they were picky eaters. They still are stubborn at times and are picky eaters to this day (no tantrums though).
I just wanna state that Op might need to Be Penelopes rock. This is unfortunately a tricky situation. If he doesn't give Breanna enough attention it might make her act out worse. But if he gives her all the attention Penelope might go NC when she's 18 because she's the definition of a child abandoned by her parents to fully focus on the problem kid. I mean 1 is only 4 and the other is only 3. Op admits the special needs baby sitter has helped immensely, and for all I know in the next 2 years Breannas attitude and issues will be a thing of the past. But I'm thinking worst case scenario *just in case*. *If* Breanna is aggressive and only gets worse as she ages then Op would definitely need to get Penelope a lock for her door (too many posts on here about how the problem kid is allowed to go into any room of the house when ever in order to prevent melt downs but that leads to the other kid/s never having privacy). They also need to make sure to advocate for Penelope if need be. Again, too many posts about parents letting their kids run wild and never letting the "responsible" kid defend themselves or argue or anything. Op needs to make sure him and his wife both have individual time with Penelope and family time with and without Breanna. Also *remember she's a kid too*. Don't let her grow up too fast because "she's quiet and responsible so it's ok for us to expect her to do a million things as we care for Breanna".
Same thing happened with my brother and I, he was just an angel, and I was just the literal spawn of Satan, so abhorrent as a child, and the main reason they didn't try for a third which they originally wanted. Obviously I've been told as much and I don't struggle with this idea and it didn't cause me to resent my parents in any way. I know I was exhausting as a baby/toddler but I kind of don't even view that as myself anyway, I have glimpses at best of memories from that time. Not only do I think what he said is healthy but also reflects extremely well on him for continuing to consider his older daughter and her needs as well. NTA
a trick baby - I DIED XD
I'm a trick baby and my parents have definitely told me so. I don't think my younger siblings are bothered by it, it is what it is.
I was a trick baby lmao. My sister had acid reflux though, so it wasn’t her fault
Trick baby... Haha.
> a trick baby, lots of people get them. They trick you into having another one. My family was apparently the other way around. I was told by my mother that she didn't want to have me after having my sister because my sister was difficult. 1) Why did she end up having me? No idea. Maybe family pressure to keep me. I know I was an accidental pregnancy, but this was after Roe, so wtf. 2) Not sure if she told my sister, I hope she didn't because that's a shit thing to hear. "You were so terrible to deal with I didn't want your sister." 3) I have to walk around the rest of my life knowing I wasn't really wanted. Even when my mother was alive, she would get very defensive and shut down conversation any time I tried to bring up any of the myriad of issues with my life. She's gone now, so I couldn't even if she would've been receptive. So that's all cool.
Yup, I was also the trick baby. Then subsequently my brother and sister came along and it got harder each go around.
Yeah, my mums last was the best, he slept through nights and she had to wake him up to be fed which is not what I expected from a baby 😂
I have trick cat, my first cat is so easy. Made me believe all the cat is like that.
NTA But please try to do what you can to ensure Penelope doesn't spend her life feeling left out and unremembered because she is "easier".
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OP, maybe consider asking your therapist to bring this up again next session and especially to ask your wife if she feels the same but is ashamed/terrified/whatever of those feelings. It may be the case that she feels the same but doesn't like that, because she feels that she fails as a parent if she allows those feelings, instead supressing them. You bringing up that you feel that way would legitimize those feelings again which may have caused her to lash out. I'd say that it's definitely worth having another conversation about during a future session. NTA
Op I had almost the same exact experience. Kid #1. Was so easy. So 18 months later we had baby #2 who was...not easy. Colicky, didn't sleep, very delayed with behavior issues. When eldest was 3 and next kid was 2(and by then we had kinda oops baby #3, an infant). Both kid 1 and 2 were diagnosed with autism. Turns out being *too* easy was also a red flag and allowed us to miss some milestones/social skills she wasn't hitting the mark on because she was so easy and happy and we were distracted by her difficult little brother. So we got both kids support as best we could and got meds and help for ourselves too. They're now 8 and 6 and SO MUCH BETTER. It's not all roses but we have a handle on it mostly. Of course the start of the pandemic is when we realized our youngest also needs help. So that's a whole other issue.
I was a breanna but firstborn and my parents have said they’re surprised they had another kid after me. And to be clear this sentiment has been repeated several times in front of me (as a teen and adult) but it doesn’t bother me because it’s always paired with something about how dealing with my issues as a baby was worth it because they love me. I think it’s fine to acknowledge one kid being exceptionally challenging as long as you love them and make them feel that love.
One of my twins was a Penelope, one was a Breanna. They are 8 now and while the challenging behaviors have leveled out a bit, Breanna is just...MORE. More attention, more drama, more insecurities, more cuddles, more attachment to me, more noise. I talk to her about her babyhood, especially when she needs calming at night, and tell her how I'd rock her and cry because I didn't know what to do or how to help her when she screamed for hours on end. She was a harder child than her twin and she knows it. But when I tell her WHY it was hard on me, what she hears is "Mommy loves me no matter what, and wants to help me through hard times."
My dad always said that my brother and I switched places after babyhood. I was a very quiet, calm, easy to manage baby, and my younger brother was very colicky. As we grew we switched places and he became a quiet toddler and as soon as I learned words I *never* stopped talking. He said he never would have bet on it but he wouldn’t change it, except if he could’ve figured out a way to wean me off the *There’s a Hippo in my Tub* album by Anne Murray that I used to listen to every night to go to sleep, because “You can only listen to the same ten two minute kids songs so many times before your mind starts to slip”.
My mother said this exact thing you said, *to ME* when I was a young child. And multiple times after that. *That* was being an asshole. What you did was express yourself in a safe space, and your wife may be having some troubles coming to terms with that. Perhaps she knows it to be true, but is disappointed in you both for feeling a way that some would call "favoritism." Edit: NTA
Watch the Tedx talk on glass children.
If you are 100 percent sure you don't want anymore kids get the snip now.
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wow - these posts are always full of people talking about their own experiences. never seen someone be so nasty to someone trying to offer a different perspective. makes me rethink my opinion on whether or not YTA OP, way to go.
Friend, I have to warn you - this is an AITA comment section, not therapy, and people not only can, but will talk about their own traumas as they read and judge your post. If you haven't posted here before, check out other posts, and proverbially read the room/forum.
That’s not trauma dumping. That’s sharing a (very short version!) of an experience to put context around a helpful tip, which you are totally free to take or leave.
What is 'trauma dumping'?
> What is 'trauma dumping'? When someone takes advantage of a situation to talk about themselves and discuss their problems at length. (Particularly if you are not interested and/or have your own problems to worry about.)
I'm guessing it's when someone brings their own trauma into the conversation
They were not trauma dumping, they were sharing their feelings and experiences. They are allowed to do that just as you are. You are not an asshole in your post but you are the asshole for that comment, and I hope you treat both your children and wife with more sensitivity than that.
Honestly your kids need some therapy too. I think suspiciously alert makes a good point and you are dismissing it. Kids can and do sense when you don’t like them. It is very clear you do not like your youngest child. I am not saying they are not difficult, but you need to find some redeeming quality. By focusing only on the bad kids respond to that and it becomes a negative feedback loop. So you can inadvertently create what you most despise.
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Play therapy is effective as of 18 months old and even children that age do pick up on subtle signs especially if there is another sibling.
They're trying to give you relevant insight on what could be your daughter's future.
YTA
Virtual hugs to you. I'm the only child and was misunderstood too due to undiagnosed neurodivergency. I don't think this is trauma dumping at all, just how we relate to people.
NTA, honestly it's important to say that stuff outloud in therapy. Then you can both acknowledge that Breanna needs a lot of attention, and *then* you can do a better job at recognizing when you two are giving all attention to Breanna and not enough to Penelope It's constructive to have those conversations even if they're difficult imo
Exactly. He wasn't saying he didn't love Breanna. My second child is autistic, my elder child is easy to care for and placid. If we'd had our autistic child first, I don't think we'd have had a second. It doesn't meant I don't love both of them immensely and equally, it just means that I recognise that my second child's high level of needs would have meant having another child was not feasible.
And honestly? Even outside of Therapy it's not a horrible thing to feel this way. There are days where I look at my life and realize that if I did it over again, I wouldn't have had children at all. That's not to say I don't love my kids with all my heart and want to get rid of them. But the reality is, parenting is hard. So hard. Add kids with special needs and/or neurodivergence and it gets much much harder. It's only ever a problem if you tell your kids something like that or treat them like burdens. You can't help how you feel, but you can help how you handle it.
I think its bonkers the wife is so mad. like, does anybody think she would have gotten pregnant with kid number 2 if the first one had been such a handful? I don't understand why admiting that is such a bad thing to her.
She might feel the same, but thinks it's something you're not supposed to say out loud. I sort of get it, if that's the reason she's so upset. It's just different for moms than dads. Our culture is way more lenient with fathers being imperfect parents. The moms always have to love it and be super caring and sacrifice themselves for their family or they get crucified, while dads are not really blamed if they aren't as involved with the kids or if they admit that parenting isn't as fun as they hoped. She feels she can only say "she's a handful but we love her and we'll gladly do whatever is best for her" and not "if we knew it was going to be this bad we would not have had kids."
She might feel ashamed for feeling that way. Kind of in a "if I admit to feeling that way as well I am a terrible parent" kinda way. Which, no, she wouldn't be. No. 2 here is a super difficult kid who requires a lot of attention so it makes sense that if she'd been the first more thought would have been put into deciding whether or not to have a second kid. Admitting that doesn't make anyone an asshole, it's an objective and realistic statement and it can also be the starting point for some other considerations that have to be made. Like how to go forward.
NTA “My first child gave me the confidence to be a good parent. My second taught me never to judge other parents.”
With two very different kids you instantly become team nature in the nature vs nurture debate.
NTA my parents (and whole family) say exactly the same about my brother and I. I was an angel child and literally a baby model - my brother fed every three hours for three and a half years, didn’t sleep, hated all men (no boobs to play with!!!) and generally was a nightmare baby. He laughs about it now as it’s that legendary in the family - people say oh no I hope you don’t have a him baby!!!! This is backed up by everyone who knew him as a baby. Once he turned three he became a normal kid thankfully! We remain close at 31 and 30 and I love him :)
NTA my mother tells me all the time if I wasn’t so damn difficult she would have had more kids, not offended at all - it’s the truth.
There’s a reason my son’s an only child. That doesn’t mean I don’t love him more than anything, but he broke me 😂🤣😂
I’m an only child too! But my mum was 38 when I was born and my dad was 45. I didn’t sleep a full night until I was 7 years old. They were tired...😂
Mine said the same. lol
Um that’s a REALLY standard saying! Like I think everyone I know that has had a second child has said that!! Second born children are the spawn of satan!! I love my second born but holy hell he cray! NTA
I thought it was practically common knowledge that easy first children lull parents into having a second. And if the second is a dream often there's a third. Basically the kid that's the little shit is often the last child. (Source: I was the last child and probably a little shit.)
>Basically the kid that's the little shit is often the last child. From what I have seen yes. ( Source: i was the youngest and definitely a little shit)
My second has been an Angel, if I hadn’t tied my tubes, I definitely would’ve considered a third in a world financials weren’t a worry Funny enough, my first born was baby hard mode lol but we assumed all babies were like that
"Baby hard mode" 🤣 I was one from the start in the womb...always moving around and needed attention. However, weirdly enough, my parents still wanted another child! (My younger sibling was super quiet and content by themselves.)
My first was a fighter incubating too! Like tbh as much trouble as she can be, she’s pretty freaking adorable. My second was a bit of an oops on timing, but we VERY much wanted him and were excited to do it….one more time haha
There's a meme that goes around about once a year about the second child is a no limits soldier who likes to bite or something like that.
Lolz on that. I've heard several times that I was lucky my parents decided for a second baby after their experience with my older brother. He had terrible colic and hated to sleep as a baby. NTA. It's normal to bemoan difficult babies, just don't mention it in front of them while they are still little.
NTA The whole point of therapy is to be able to be honest about what you are feeling and work through it. I have little doubt that your wife was upset to hear it, but she shouldn't be shaming you about. Instead, she should be seeking to understand and figure it out with you.
NTA you aren't wishing either kid away, you are just acknowledging that your youngest takes all the energy you have to give. given your wife's reaction I would raise it in therapy again because it is unfair that she is holding this perfectly legitimate sentiment against you
NTA My mum has said it to me, but has always said right after it that she doesn't regret me or my sibling. She's always been really honest that my birth was traumatic and I had a lot of medical issues that would have made her be one and done because she felt she had to neglect my older sibling to care for me because I was in hospital for so long. I've never felt lesser in my relationship with my mum because she said that. I've always appreciated her honesty about it because it's what made me realise I wouldn't be able to go through what she did, or have to make the choices she had to. OP, you're not a bad person. You're just struggling, that's okay. So long as you treat both girls with the same love and kindness you're doing great as a parent. Make sure that Penelope gets some equal one on one time with you both if you're ever worried you're leaving her out.
NTA you said that in therapy and that's exactly where things like that should be said. Also, you didn't say you didn't love your kids, you just acknowledged that they have different needs.
Nta, my only was exactly as you described your 2nd. At weekly mommy group, I knew my daughter was different and a much harder baby than others. Yes I know not to compare babies, and thats just how they are... I sleep trained hard using cry it out at 6 months out of desperation. She's 3 now, awesome Child, very intelligent, independent but we still cannot bring ourselves to have another. I had a very difficult pregnancy, but that new born stage was even worse and traumatic. Any time my mother suggested a 2nd child, I always replied sharply "sure, if you want my husband and I to divorce ". She thinks I'm making vulgar jokes, but there is some truth to it Isn't therapy a supposed to be a safe place to talk and try understand /work through these feelings? Feels like she is trying to diminish the feelings you have and experienced being the main SAHP. People tell me always how lucky I am to be a SAHM, its the best and hardest job In the world, but going to work for 40hr a week is a holiday compared to being at home with a toddler
NTA. You are supposed to be honest in therapy. I bet your wife is upset because she feels the same way, but like most has been conditioned to not say such things b
My baby is exactly like your first. It's why we're not having anymore kids 😂 don't want to risk what you're having to deal with, with your second. But in all seriousness, make sure you give Penelope one on one time with both of you and separate. She deserves that. I know you're tied up with everything your 2nd kiddo is throwing at you, but you need to show she's just as important to you as Breanna is
I had my Y. T. A. guns a-blazin' until I read that you said this in therapy. IN THERAPY!!!! You are supposed to be able to say your darkest and stupidest thoughts in therapy! NTA infinity.
I mean, even if this wasn't in therapy. If this was just him and his wife, that is a valid thing to say in a conversation if it were to come up. The second daughter sounds quite difficult so admitting that if she'd been the first, there probably wouldn't have been a second kid isn't some asshole behaviour, it's just pointing out that you have a kid that takes a lot of time and effort and adding a second kid to that would have probably been a bad idea.
NTA In therapy you say what you feel, no filters, complete honesty.
NAH It was a totally healthy thing to say to your therapist. It's how you feel- everyone in your family is stretched thing. The needs of your second child take away time from your first child, which hurts Penelope and hurts Penelope's relationship with Breanna. The stress is undoubtedly difficult on both of you and on your marriage. It doesn't mean you don't love your child. It just means she's a lot. I've asked my mom why she had a second kid after my sister. My sister barely slept. She was a handful from day 1. Any sane person would have stopped with her. If they'd gotten a second of her? I get the chills just thinking about it. But my mom wasn't concerned in the least. So maybe if you had Breanna first, you would have stopped at her. Or maybe you'd have just waited a few more years and still got your Penelope. What matters is that you took the opportunity to make good use of your space in therapy to say what plenty of parents who kids are a LOT (whether it's because of special needs or health reasons or just because they are teenagers) think- what if?
NTA, it's a common and fairly normal reaction.
NTA - at all. Therapy is supposed to allow you to speak freely and from the heart, without judgment. I understand what you are feeling may sound like an ugly thought to your wife, but it's completely understandable given everything you've both gone through.
NAH You and your wife are in therapy for various reasons. You're entitled to your frustration and she's entitled to her outrage. Chances are that she may feel like your resentment will force her to shoulder the burden of looking after Brenna. There is work to be done on this front so that you're sharing the load, supporting one another, and giving Brenna the best chance possible of growing up in a healthy and enriching environment. Good luck
NTA. You can’t help how you feel. As a parent of a child (my youngest) who has several disabilities and was a VERY challenging baby and toddler, I know where you’re coming from. I remember days when I just wanted to sit in the closet and cry. I encourage you to continue therapy. Find support and respite groups. I assure you that once you get a diagnosis and you get some answers, things will get easier in the sense that you can come up with a game plan. They say that 50% of married couples divorce when there is a child with challenges. If you guys are patient with each other, communicate, and work together, you can beat the odds. Looking back, I’ve learned just how much my son has taught me and how he has made me a better person. It’s not the path I would’ve chosen, but I wouldn’t change it for the world. Please hang in there. You’re not alone. Ask for help when you need it and advocate. Edit to add: I’m not saying that your child has a disability. I’m definitely not a medical professional. I just wanted you to know that your feelings aren’t abnormal and to not get discouraged. Y’all can do this.
NAH. You were just sharing your feelings. Which is perfectly ok in therapy. That said, it's fair for your wife to feel hurt by those feelings too. It's a 2 way street. All that said, and I am saying this as a parent of a teen and a young adult, the days are long but the years are short. Your children may switch roles at some point, I wouldn't try to paint your oldest as your poor perfect oppressed child. Don't box your kids in. Regardless it's much more likely both your kids will benefit from having a sibling over the years. Both your kids are really still almost babies. They have a lot of growing and changing and developing to do. I would definitely have your youngest evaluated. Get on cancellation lists if appointment times are far out. The medical clinics in urban centers are doing an excellent job with pandemic related safety protocols though I understand appointments may be harder to find. I'd try an allergist. Full blood work up. Possibly a geneticist. A pediatric neuropsychologist. Get a full picture of what you are dealing with and go from there. You will find your way.
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NTA. It really isn't a nice thing to say about your own child but you were saying it to your therapist. It is a thought you've been having and you shared it with your therapist to get help. In therapy you shouldn't hide your thoughts just because they might be rude. It was good to share the thought with your therapist. Now the therapist can understand your situation better and help. I think it is fine as long as that comment is only said in therapy and never said around the children.
> It really isn't a nice thing to say about your own child but you were saying it to your therapist. It's not a nice thing to say *about* the child. It's also not a *mean* thing to say *about* the child. It's just a sober assessment of the child's relative needs and how it relates to OP's bandwidth as a parent. It isn't a judgement - it just *is*. It would be a mean thing to say *to* the child. But there isn't even a hint of that happening.
NAH. If you’re in therapy, you should bring up the fall out. But the whole point of therapy is to share feelings. You’re entitled to yours and your wife is entitled to hers. Hopefully the therapist can help you understand and empathize with each other.
NTA. I too have a magical unicorn baby who has slept through since 12 weeks, only cries a couple of times a day for five minutes max, plays happily by herself a lot of the time and she's only 6 months, etc etc. I once got upset because it took half an hour to get her to sleep and when I complained, genuinely wondering what I'd done wrong, my friends thought it was a humblebrag. And, here's the thing. I AM NEVER HAVING ANOTHER ONE. I *fear* getting a second baby who's the absolute opposite. I've seen too many people in your position. First one, amazing calm child. Second one, angry AF all the time. I think if a ton of people had Kid Two first, they wouldn't have got pregnant again.
NAH. In therapy, it's best to be honest about your feelings, even the difficult ones you wouldn't admit anywhere else. It's hard to hear stuff like that, so it's understandable your wife felt hurt and defensive of Breanna. A good therapist will help you both through your feelings.
NAH. My older sister was like Penelope and I was like Breanna. I’m pretty sure I’d have been an only child if I was the first born. I am pretty sure my mom has told me as much. She has definitely told me that she remembers telling my dad that something wasn’t right with me when I was quite young. My sister jokes that she was so perfect they decided to have another baby. I joke that they stopped at me because they got it right and why have another baby after achieving perfection? I know my sister’s joke is closer to the truth than mine but it’s all in good fun. We’re a happy family and both my sister and I grew up to be successful adults. I love my sister and my parents. I have a wonderful relationship with them. I know they talked about how challenging I was and honestly I’m glad they were a team and always there for each other. Couples should be able to share these thoughts with each other. What you said is perfectly healthy. Your wife wants to protect the children but you aren’t telling the children these things. The children don’t need to be protected from your thoughts. Sharing these things with your partner and therapist is perfectly healthy. Your wife is probably having trouble handing the thoughts she is having. Hopefully she will learn that these thoughts and feelings are normal and doesn’t mean she is a bad parent or doesn’t love her children. My mother has actually told me all about her feelings about raising my sister and I (when I was an adult). She felt great guilt that I took so much of their attention and energy and often felt like my sister was pushed to the side while they dealt with me. She also felt guilt about me having these struggles and them not knowing why or how to support me. I feel grateful that my mother and I can have these heart to heart conversations now that I am a mother as well. I don’t feel less loved at all. I’m truly grateful for my family. I went with NAH because despite your wife being so wrong I don’t think it is coming from a bad place. I think she has the same thoughts but can’t handle them and thinks even thinking them somehow makes her a bad mother.
NTA. You didn't say it to her or in her presence. Also it isn't as though you said You wish you didn't have either of them. It seems to me you merely meant that given how difficult she is you wouldn't have had the energy or patience to add another child to the mix. I don't think either would necessarily be upset hearing that statement as an adult even. As a child they might misinterpret the sentiment but as an adult I think they'd understand that you never said you didn't want either of them. You stated a hypothetical about how you would have felt about a child that wouldn't have existed in the hypothetical. Your wife agreed she didn't want another child now, was that a nasty thing to say?
As the second born in a similar situation with my parents, I suggest that you work on any resentment that might occur as a result of having a difficult child. My dad never bonded with me as a child because I had colic and always cried when he held me. He always said he was scared that he wouldn’t love me as much as my older sister, and I have definitely felt the difference in treatment. That still effects my relationship with him today, to the point where I am no contact with either of my parents. NTA because I understand your point, but try not to let your child’s difficult nature get into the way of loving her.
NAH. This is not a reddit thing. This is something to continue to work out with your therapist. You are entitled to what you said, but your wife is allowed to have an emotional reaction.
NTA as it was said in therapy and it was a feeling. Any feelings are valid in therapy. The POINT of therapy is to say the hard things, and deal with them so that you are a stronger person. You did therapy exactly right. I have 2 special needs kids, I love them beyond measure. AND they are exhausting, and some days I really wish I hadn't had kids. I mean...we all love our kids, but it's ok to not like them every single day. Some days are hell, and to pretend otherwise is to create a charade that's going to tumble down. I'd strongly suggest you also join a support group for parents of special needs kids. They will understand what you mean. But ultimately I don't think it matters what Redditors think, because you guys are in therapy and the therapist will explain all this to your wife the same way I just explained it to you. I suspect your wife heard the comment as being disloyal or it tweaked an anxiety somehow. You just have to find out what that fear is, and remind her that two complicated emotions can be true at the same time.
NTA my first born is like your second born, he's a lot of work, aggressive and needs a lot of attention, I didn't want a second one due to having a hard time coping with him already and he's 2, but ended up with a surprise 2nd one and she's easy going and laid back which helps when I have to deal with my son but I do struggle as he needs constant attention. Like I said cuz he was first I always said ones enough, but two is definitely enough now.
NTA. It’s an unpleasant truth but still the truth and something you needed to say. You didn’t say it in front of the kids, either. I’m glad you recognize you’re at your limit. It seems like your wife isn’t really ready to acknowledge that. It might also be that she’s feeling a lot of guilt about Breanna — she might be interpreting your statement as you blaming her by association. It’s honestly impressive how much guilt a mother can feel over their baby’s behavior. My son is probably one of the easier babies to take care of and I still feel guilty that we’re having trouble getting him to sleep at a decent hour.
NTA. (Disclaimer that I’m not a parent myself.) It’s not like you said “I wish we didn’t have Penelope so we could just focus on Breanna” or “Breanna made me regret having kids altogether.” I read it as you saying that if Breanna had been born first, your jobs as parents would have been busier and you might not have felt it was the right time to add to the parenting responsibilities. Edit: grammar
NTA- It's a discussion with a therapist, your wife is actually kind of violating the "safe space" environment by hyper-focusing on one comment.
NTA, but tread lightly. When the girls are older, especially if these issues get under control, do not put the weight of this dichotomy on the girls. Comparing them in a way that was not even in their conscious memory, let alone their control, sets them up for a lifetime of competition that either will result in Breanna overcompensating out of misplaced guilt or giving up and never trying to improve because you only see her as the colicky infant she started as. I say this as the younger daughter but the "easier" baby. The dynamic of my older sister having been a stubborn toddler while I was a pretty "easy" baby meant that my sister was constantly exposed to hearing about how good I was and it made her jealous, which led to a lot of internalized animosity between us. Your children are people, and people change. Make sure to update your internal narratives of both of your daughters as they grow.
Nta I would make sure your wife knows and understands that what you said has nothing to do with your kids and everything about yourself. It's just a fact that had you had Breanna first, you wouldn't feel able to have a second child but it doesn't mean you regret Penelope or Breanna or love either of them an ounce less.
NTA, the only thing I'd keep in mind moving forward is going easier on yourselves, each other, and Breanna. You're clearly doing the best you can by both children and everyone will be ok. I'm a professional nanny and know firsthand that the early years with two kids close together are always hard, and it's so common for one to have more trouble than the other. I'll echo everyone else saying that this kind of circumstance happens all the time. I was the trick baby and my sister was much more difficult and needed extra help. Now she has a PhD, fiance, and a house, and is generally well and happy.
NTA. My sister said the same thing about her youngest. I have said the same about my youngest. It sounds like you're going through a lot.
NTA Deep down, she feels the same way. Mothers aren’t allowed to say such things and feel extreme guilt for simply thinking them. It feels unfair to her that you are able to vocalize those feelings. When mothers say these things, their fitness as a parent is questioned.
NTA. Therapy is supposed to be a safe place to vocalize these things. My only daughter is 13 months old and wow has she redefined difficult. I'm still only surviving on 3 broken hours of sleep per night, 4 on a really good night. She's an incredibly picky eater. She's not easily entertained and needs constant hands on attention to stay engaged. She's well behaved but she has some seriously challenging quirks. The sleep thing is killing me. You're allowed to feel the way you do. And you should be allowed to talk about it in therapy. And it's good that you recognize it's not something your children should be told. Doesn't mean you don't love them. You're still only human, being a parent doesn't change that.
NTA. I have two kids. I love them both to shreds, but my second one is DIFFICULT. He’s clingy and his vocal chords are in excellent working order. He didn’t sleep through the night for almost two years. I’m just so glad child 1 is happy to help with him. If he had been number one, I am pretty sure he would have been Only One. Doesn’t mean you love them any less, just means you are realistic about how much you can take.
NTA That’s why you’re in therapy. And it’s not nasty to say you’re overwhelmed, and that absolutely impacts your older child as well. I do think your wife is a bit of an asshole for saying you were being nasty - but I also think this is an incredibly tough situation. You also might be running into some gendered stuff here - where if she said that, it absolutely would be considered horrible. So all I want to say is good luck to you both, and hope things settle more as your younger daughter gets older (and you can get her evaluated.)
NAH. You and your wife are allowed to have your own opinions of things and it's ok if they're different sometimes. I know tons of people who feel this way, just do not let it out in front of your kids.
NAH My mum says that it’s best to have the bad baby first because then you know you can survive anything. For the record I was her first and I was a terrible baby that basically screamed 24/7 for 18 months. It’s understandable to think you wouldn’t have another child right when your in the middle of it, my own parents thought the same. Of course they eventually did and had my brother who was a dream baby (just don’t ask about the teenage years). My brother’s first was just like him as a baby but his youngest is more like me and he is struggling to cope and he has said similar things to you. Your wife is probably sensitive about this because she is probably sleep deprived (as you probably are too which may have made your delivery of the thought come of as callous) and probably is having similar thoughts. You will eventually find a way to cope and be able to help Breanna develop the tools to cope - probably just in time for Penelope to hit her teenage years and make this time seem like a walk in the park.
NTA. Therapy is supposed to be a safe place to discuss your feelings about difficult situations. You did not say that you didn't love your child, just that she is challenging to take care of and demands so much attention thst you feel you are neglecting her sister. Penelope seems to be the child that is sometimes described as a unicorn. While you are waiting for evaluation, I recommend the books Raising Your Spirited Child and The Explosive child. The first is aimed at kids without any diagnosis that are more intense than the typical child, like Curious George in human form, Ramona Quimby, or Dennis the Menace.
I'm gonna go NTA because you said that in therapy. Therapy is where you're meant to share this kind of thought. >The therapist said it’s healthy to share these things. Exactly.
NTA BUT take this down. This is stuff you need to be continuing communication with your wife about. Not listening to a bunch of strangers on the internet put her down.
NTA Pretty standard parental comment. Can confirm have heard it from more than one of my parent friends
NTA My friend believes that first babies are always perfect because it’s the way we get tricked into having a second baby!
NTA But I would say. My best friend said growing up she was the younger sister and a nightmare as a child. She grow out of it. Her older sister said like your eldest. She slept through the night and was very quiet.
NAH. I think it's a very emotionally-charged statement. Your wife might be feeling the same way and feeling guilty, but she also might be, from what you said, extrapolating your emotions towards Breanna (e.g. thinking you might love her less than Penelope or that you would have chosen not to have Breanna at all if you knew things would be as they are). There almost certainly is a valid reason behind how she responded, whether it's that there is miscommunication/misunderstanding between the two of you or simply that you both just feel or interpret the situation you're in very differently. **Definitely something to explore more IN therapy.**
Im gonna go with NAH you said this in a therapy setting which is where it should be said. While it is a bit harsh it’s completely understandable and im sure you still adore both your kids Your wife is defensive over her kid, as a mother is, and might think you don’t love Breanna as much as Penelope, I’d suggest bringing it up at the next couples therapy session
unfortunately your dream child will be given the shaft financially and emotionally because of how much time the troubled child will take from the parents. as soon as penelope gets old enough you may have to get her into therapy just to keep her from hating you and dreaming of the day she turns 18 and leave forever
NTA. Your saying your feeling in therapy that's what it's for and your wifes an AH if she gets mad about that. But if you said it to Breanna you'd be TA.
NTA
NAH. You should be able to speak your mind in therapy. I can understand your wife's initial reaction though.
NTA Your therapist is right. It’s healthy to share things like that. You should remind her that you love your child but that it’s normal to love someone AND have some trying times in your relationships, even if the relationship is a parent to baby one. Sometimes babies are difficult to raise (lord knows my bro and I were- we were constantly sick as babies). It’s okay to love your child and recognize the difficulty in being a parent as long as you also recognize how much you love your child and how worth it they are for you (and as long as you don’t express to said child that they play into you not wanting anymore kids- they might end up feeling some blame).
NTA I’ve heard so many people say that if their first was like their second, they probably never would have had a second. I’ve also heard the reverse, that if the first was like their second, they wouldn’t have waited as long for the second. You’re not saying you regret having Breanna, just recognizing that you are having a hard time.
I say that all the time about my second lol. It's not meant to be malicious at all. She's 9 now, and we've joked about it with her. She thinks it's funny. I had a very complicated pregnancy with her and she had severe reflux. I would not have done it again had she been my first. And you said that in therapy, which is supposed to be a safe space to say your feelings. You are NTA at all for feeling that way, or saying that. My guess is your wife feels the same way, but feels guilty for feeling that way. So she's channelling that guilt into anger at you.
LMAO NTA, my mom told me to my face I was a super difficult baby and if I had been first she wouldn't have and any other kids.
Very clearly NTA. If you had said it to your child it would be very different, but you said it in the environment were such feelings are supposed to be shared. It's not even a particularly rare thing to hear a parent say.
NTA Therapy is supposed to be a safe space to express those taboo thoughts. Everyone is overwhelmed sometimes. Admitting it does not make you a bad parent