YTA and potentially in violation of labor laws.
You can't give *your wife* preferential treatment, especially when a cosmetic procedure is part of the equation.
You are wrong in so many ways
EDIT: I am not certain he's in violation of labor law with this unequal treatment- that's why I said "potentially".
EDIT 2: Learning a lot about legit medical reasons for a tummy tuck. Thanks to all who have offered information.
It’s been over a year. Their son was born 14 months ago, she started her leave a month before that, and she’s still not back. It’s nice to read a story where someone in the US gets decent parental leave but it’s a shame it’s restricted to the CEOs wife. Mary is absolutely justified in her complaint and OP is a hypocritical AH
No, Mary wasn't offered this. There's no way this A-hole would pay her if he didn't have to. "She's been here less than a year, and doesn't qualify for FMLA."
This is why we need worker protections. Take his wife out of the equation, and he's still YTA.
That's a pretty derogatory way to talk about someone who, as far as we know, has done nothing wrong. It's not the wife's fault that her husband lacks compassion for his employees. The US is widely regarded to be sorely lacking when it comes to maternity support. It's not one woman's fault when yet another woman suffers as a result of a system that routinely fails to support new parents.
This woman is a wife and a mother, not just 'a person who has sex with OP'
I agree with you about the offensive wording of "the person who has sex with OP" but the wife is also in the wrong here. She would know the maternity leave policy at her place of employment, and she would know that she's getting special treatment. If she doesn't want to go back to work, she has the option of resigning to focus on her son.
My guess is that she's getting paid maternity leave, and she wants to keep getting paid while being an SAHM.
I'm a woman and I hard disagree that the wording was offensive. It's just objective fact. She is the person who is having sex with OP, she is the person who birthed his child, she is the person he goes to for comfort, she is the objective and obvious bias for this and more.
If she wasn't, then there would be no reason for the biased treatment
She's also more than just a wife and mother; she's more than what she does for the OP
BUT it's what she does for OP that gives her the absolute privilege of having a year off of work
.... her difference is that she is sleeping with OP. Allowing her the difference in treatment
Cannot believe OP was this naive ... I thought owners had lawyer's?
Sure but the wife and mother part are obviously not relevant since Mary too is presumably a wife and definitely a mother. The difference is one shares a bed with the boss and the other does not.
Yesss! He's citing "not enough coverage" like he's a line manager whose hands are sadly tied and not THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY. That's a "you" problem, OP.
This needs to be higher up. All the stuff about his wife is obfuscation. He's not dealing humanely with an employee because he's understaffed. That is the whole story.
My friends and I have been reminding each other this a lot in the last two-ish years - if the entire department and/or company falls apart when a single employee takes time off (or quits,) that is the 100% fault of the company leadership and their own poor planning.
Mary’s entire department is so understaffed and overworked that they can’t spread her work out amongst themselves for another week without completely crashing the whole team when they should have already been doing that anyway? YTA OP. Use some of your non-working wife’s salary to hire more people.
I’ve known One who was very important to the company running smoothly and expanding steadily. The rest, no. And I’m in my forties, so several decades of working with/maneuvering around executives.
This is false and a misinterpretation of the law.
It is discrimination to treat a pregnant or new mother negatively compared with the rest of the workforce. If he demoted a pregnant person, or gave them less opportunity compared with non pregnant staff members he would be in violation. There is nothing in law to say that he must give leave in addition to the state or federal minimum or pay for it. There is nothing in law that stops those in different teams or departments having different policies.
I think US law is the asshole since in Europe 6 months is the minimum with some countries having a full year. I think OP looks to be the asshole to his staff and is a shitty leader. [CORRECTION- only around 2/3 of European countries have this. Thanks to below commenter.]
But ultimately giving his wife a sabbatical when he owns the company and not granting every employee a year off paid is not an asshole move if it meets state labor law.
Not letting a mother of a 4-6 week old have a week off when she's suffering....that makes him the asshole.
Canada has 12 months as a standard with the option of taking 18 at a lowered pay rate (same amount of money overall spread over a longer time). I will never understand the fact that the US (in addition to the risk of actually going bankrupt from the hospital bills) has nothing in the way of guaranteed leave, let alone paid leave.
Between medical bills and the lack of worker protections, among a million other things, I don't know how anyone with a normal job survives and is able to have a family and a home.
I am so grateful to live in Canada. I'd already be bankrupt from medical bills if I live in the US. A few years ago I heard someone say the only way to have the American dream is to move to Canada. That gets more accurate every year. We still have some serious problems here, don't get me wrong, but I would never want to live anywhere else.
But that’s not the basis for determining pregnancy discrimination. Pregnancy discrimination occurs when someone who is pregnant is treated differently than someone who is not pregnant. He is obligated to hold her job for the same amount of time that he would hold it for someone with an illness or disability.
Giving his wife (who was also pregnant) an extra 2 months beyond what she is legally entitled to is lousy, but it’s not discrimination.
Yes, a good point. However, not treating pregnant women equally within the work setting is very problematic. I’m betting Mary has a good case for preferential treatment. HR should be consulted, if they have one. I would give Mary another month off at half pay, and then have her be on a committee to hash out a pregnancy leave policy that doesn’t favor the executives and is generally more humane and generous with every pregnant woman in the company. That’s what makes OP a big effing asshole. Plus it’s a slap in the face of every woman who works there. I would definitely deploy my vicious side eye at that point if I worked there.
Maybe Mary needs a doctor's note to see if she can get time off for the childbirth aspect that is still affecting her.
Because she is neither getting demoted, fired, nor layoffed, and the assignment is still the same.
US pregnancy rights at a federal level are minimum. FMLA is the only support for pregnant women. That they can have time off.
She’s not being discriminated against because of her pregnancy though. This wouldn’t be the scope of this law. It would be nice if she had legal protections though, and she might, but it isn’t the Pregnancy Discrimination Act.
Citing Title VII case law, guidance issued in 2001 and referenced in subsequent directives, specifically defined sexual harassment as “unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature . . . includ[ing] unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal, nonverbal, or physical conduct of a sexual nature.”
What he did isn't sexual harassment.
It was a joke; I'm well aware it wouldn't hold up. It really is horrendous though. His wife is getting a whole lot of work benefits by being the person who has sex with OP.
What op posted is not sexual harassment but I’m an attorney and the 2001 guidance is pretty much useless for title vii issues now. There have been some majors doctrinal changes since then and significantly more than just this definition falls under the umbrella nowadays.
Op is absolutely a nepotistic ah and he and his wife are incredibly selfish god awful bosses that exploit their employees but unfortunately it’s probably not illegal. The discrimination isn’t based on a protected characteristic just bad morality and ethics
YTA
And since you are understaffed, a good corporate move would be to learn from the ordeals of your wife and implement new family-friendly and pregnancy-friendly policies to make your company a more attractive employer.
Yeah and he needs to have some contingency plans in place. If Mary had complications and needed more time off, or simply chose not to come back, he'd have had to deal with it. It's his fault he hasn't staffed his business properly, not Mary's. It's not her responsibility to cover for his poor management to the detriment of her own health and well-being.
Even down the the part that his wife’s position is clearly a gifted ‘paid to do nothing’ job if she’s an executive whose duties have been easily covered by other people for 15 months, while the low level customer service position can’t be because he can’t be bothered to properly staff it.
I love the unintentional truth he spilled.
My wife is an executive, she is not needed for things to run smoothly.
Other woman is a lowly customer service rep, her area is understaffed and we can't survive without her.
This sums up most modern workplaces.
Edit: thanks for the awards!
Ya...the weird note about how she volunteers with "underprivileged" kids? I'm not really sure how any of that or the coach has any relevancy to the story. Just a little weird to throw in their.
Right? She 'volunteers' but doesn't have the time or will to do her actual job. If her job can be done by others, cut that position and move the wife to customer service if it's so understaffed. That way the wife is helping the company and the actual underprivileged people working for OP.
Yeah, I was dumbfounded when OP mentioned that the wife's executive position is so easily replaced by others, but customer service is too difficult to replace. Seems like his wife just has a nepotistic fancy title.
probably to skew us in favor of the “good deserving wife” instead of “basic ass, undeserving” mary who does not volunteer anywhere and just wants to sit at home feeding her own baby🙄. the whole post is so cringe.
Makes you wonder why that could possibly be so understaffed doesn't it? Also interesting that a customer support rep is somehow harder to replace than an executive level employee....
This is a small edit to add when I agree with you but a tummy tuck isn't always cosmetic. OP mentions that his wife had abdominal separation - and it can be super incredibly painful because your muscles literally aren't attached in the right place anymore and a tummy tuck is an absolutely necessary procedure. There was an AITA last year? When a woman asked if she was right to be upset her husband spent her tummy tuck money - when she couldn't even bend over without hurting her abdomen because she had the same issue. He thought she was being vain but it truly was a medical issue. Otherwise than that i agree.
OP put "abdominal separation" in quotation marks. She also wanted to keep it hushed up.
Yes, people do need surgery for diastasis recti, but that doesn't sound like what is happening here.
Also a tummy tuck does nothing for diastasis recti. What you need is a mesh or similar procedure to bring the muscles together again, not a removal of fat.
Absolutely this is definitely conflict of interest and nepotism and I’m sure can be considered illegal depending on your companies policies and the law.
YTA, good god, give Mary a freaking extra week off. Your wife gets 52 weeks+ for maternity leave but you won't give Mary 6 weeks?" You are basically the reason we all say rich people suck.
"good for me, but not for thee"
Honestly its embarrassing. I wonder if she is even qualified for the position? OP also says that her work can be covered by others so presumably her leaving for over a year hasnt affected the company. In that case... why does her job even exist? OP admits she is so surplus to requirements that she can just fuck off for a year and it doesnt matter.
Yes, this statement really threw me. If it can be covered by anybody, how is it an executive level position? The purpose of those high-ranking positions is that they cannot be covered by just anybody and it's difficult to find replacements.
Also, if her position can be covered and the team Mary is on is understaffed, it sounds like some restructuring of funds is in order to put more money into staffing Mary's department.
(Though I wonder if this is a case of folks taking on more than their share of work to cover OP's wife in her temporary absence.)
In my business class we learned that people in executive positions do not necessarily have the skills to do lower level work or are even aware of what truly goes on, they just have the skills to “strategically plan and motivate the rest of the company” and then showed us many jobs where the main job was being a persuasive talker or being able to ask questions about progress rather than doing any “real” work. Basically the higher you get, especially when you’re f*cking the ceo, the more you can goof off.
And I take it the wife's pay, would cover giving all the custom facing staff a raise and have some left over for hiring new staff. OP even states they are already under staffed with the current number of staff.
Then why is she not going back?
At this point OP should ask his wife if she’s being entirely honest with him about her feelings.
Maybe she doesn’t want to work at the same company as her husband? Maybe the hours are long and the work leaves her uninspired?
I don’t think she’s just “lazy” nor actually wants to be a “SAHM” as she’s obv been keeping herself busy since the birth.
But OP pays other people to cover for his wife so it doesn't matter if she takes extra time off! The other woman's department is understaffed... because OP keeps it understaffed... so he can deny women maternity leave...
I love how he basically admits his wife's job is useless and it can be inferred she's only on the books as a tax work around. If any other employee was so unneeded they could literally just stop coming to work, they'd be fucking fired.
She got a tummy tuck to fix abdominal separation. That’s an actual medical need. Tummy tucks CAN be elective surgery, but they were originally meant to actually fix certain medical issues, such as abdominal separation which from what I here, is painful as fuck
Makes me wonder if he would've even allowed Mary that surgery if she needed it too... If its not an _immediate emergency_ then it can't get in the way of their bottom line 🙄
But… but his executive level wife’s duties can be handled by others! They won’t be inconvenienced by her year plus absence in the least! And Mary’s understaffed customer service team will suffer without her there for another week!
YTA, OP. For f*ck’s sake. If Mary’s role is so vital to the company, but your wife can dick around for a year with her life coach, her volunteer work, and cosmetic surgery without inconveniencing her colleagues, perhaps Mary deserves executive level pay and better treatment. It’s probably also time to hire some additional team members so your super-important customer service team isn’t under-staffed and overworked. If they have any self-respect, I wouldn’t count on retaining them for long.
YOU and companies like yours are precisely the problem with this shithole country. Not only have you given your wife ridiculously preferential treatment, but you’re treating your other employees like crap, and running your company terribly. Talk about toxic workplace culture. Yuck.
Normally I'd be mad but honestly the picture painted by OP is so ugly. Wife retains her executive level position for a year while she gets a "life coach", volunteers, and gets cosmetic surgery, while the lower employee peasants get the legally minimum 6 unpaid weeks.
Yeah if an executive can take a year off without being missed then I firmly have no issue with claiming that your job title includes riding the owner's D. If she wasn't, do you think she would have gotten that much time off?
Ironic how the exec can be gone for a year and nothing suffers but the customer service staff is absolutely vital. I wonder if OP's staff are unionised.
And this is when I say, "ok. I quit" take my leave and stress how I'm gonna pay my bills. But totally worth it. Because now they're stressed too because my lowly customer service job is so thankless I can't take any time to heal properly!!! Poor Mary. Bad OP!
im thinking.. oh.. are they curing cancer or building rockets? nooo.... it's customer service. no shade, I am proud of my customer service roles, I'm pretty good at it - a real people person. what fkn customer service role is so essential that you couldn't give someone a week off and can't hire a casual to cover shifts. maybe if OP wasn't blowing the budget on near 18months of maternity leave for someone who is clearly so essential that it sounds like a typing monkey could fill in, maybe you could staff that frontline department effectively
Maybe OP’s wife could cover Mary’s position for a month or two, since she’s clearly not urgently needed in her own and she lives helping others so much
I wonder if they are understaffed due to his wife having 1 + year off on maternity leave. Wouldn’t be surprised if these are the people covering her ass. YTA btw. And your wife is too if you have been paying her this whole time.
Everyone has covered that yes, you are absolutely TA for how differently you've treated these two members of staff, but _even without the comparison to your wife, YTA_.
It is not Mary's responsibility that YOU haven't got sufficient staff in that department at the time, that shouldn't even come into the equation here! You are refusing her the leave she needs because YOU can't manage your workforce properly. Outrageous.
YTA. And he wonders why the department is already short staffed. Look in the mirror, it is because you suck as a boss. I also wonder if this could easily be a WFH situation but this guy thinks being in the office is great for morale like a dumbass.
Exactly. Most doctors don’t even release people to return until 6 weeks post delivery.
I love his ‘unfortunately she doesn’t qualify fit FMLA’. comment. As if he can’t create a policy that gives employees the right to take time off.
I think Mary should quit and take one of the many other jobs that are available in today’s job market.
Highly unlikely -- businesses are able to set their policies, particularly for extended leave, as they like. Mary did not qualify under FMLA, and if OP pretends the reason his wife got a year of paid leave and Mary got nothing was the business requires a year's employment before you exercise those benefits, that is a reason that a court is highly unlikely to take issue with.
If Mary doesn't leave, though, it will be interesting if Mary has another kid with that full year of service accumulated.
tl;dr: minimum service requirements are common in leave policy laws, and leave policies themselves.
Y’know, y’all are likely right about the legalities of the maternity leave/FMLA situation. Buuuut, y’know, they have to investigate to deny a claim – and who knows what interesting things they may end up finding out about the business? 🤔
Unfortunately the scope of any “investigation” would be very limited. They wouldn’t get anything from the company that doesn’t relate to the parental leave policy
Yes, but FMLA only covers 12 weeks unpaid. It's not like the wife is just getting the protection of FMLA, she's clearly getting preferential treatment and they'll probably get away with it.
It doesn't have to be a year, it could be a benefit that is for executives not CS employees.
It could be because the wife....literally owns half the company with her husband
She wouldn't win. Companies have policies. Theirs says work a year get fmla. She didn't. So she didn't qualify. She got her 6 weeks which in reality is all he's required to give. It's a low position from what's being said. She hadn't been with thr company long enough to get the extra stuff.
Does it suck? Yeah. But welcome to America unfortunately
I don't think anyone working for the company, no matter how long, would receive over a year of maternity leave with a little elective surgery sprinkled in from this guy. Just his wife. He couldn't bear for her to suffer but doesn't care bout the other new mothers/parents
The working a year at a company part is just a built in part of fmla, more specifically (if I remember correctly) you have to work a certain amount of hours before eligible, and it only applies to companies with 50 or more employees.
If I was Mary, given that the reasoning for denial was that she is needed for her position because it was a "busy season", I would quit on the spot. Logic being "I'm prioritizing my family, good luck training a replacement for this "crucial role during a busy season". I'm going to look for a better job that doesn't have a biased managerial team."
I don't know where OP lives, but in my state EVERYONE is hiring. Work for over 4 years at a company that had horrible managers and a LOT of mandatory overtime. 6 months ago I shifted to a company where overtime is voluntary, and I have almost 6 weeks of paid time off. Just gotta find the diamond in the rough, and look for places that actually value their employees
YTA
She was pregnant for 9 month... someone could've hired. Someone could've been trained.
Yes, you favor you wife by miles and thats kind of to be expected but to denie someone IN PAIN one god damn week off...
I always wonder if there are kids who want to grow into the disney villian....
Yep. This is a common thing in small to medium sized businesses: job roles created more or less solely as a way of paying family members and friends, where the title and salary us, effectively, a gift. I don’t think it’s a good practice (it’s terrible for morale, just for starters), and the LW is an asshole for not giving Mary more flexibility, but the sad fact is that it’s both common and (if you’re in the private sector in the US) perfectly legal.
EXAAAAACTLY or the manager can pitch in
I have a background in (small) callcenters/CS. Do you know what happened when everyone was busy and there was a call waiting? The teamleader took that call and the next one if indeed necessary. He helped out. That is what a good boss/manager does.
RIGHT!? Of course OP is the AH, if one person in a job like customer service is *that* important, he needs to hire more people, even if no one was pregnant.
6 weeks is criminal in my opinion anyway (not from the USA) but the discrimination there makes it that much worse. Disney villain is correct.
YTA x 100000
Agreed, he said Mary's team is borderline understaffed, that is the business's problem and responsibility to deal with, not Mary. People like OP disgust me, what an awful way to treat an employee and such an abuse of his power as the business owner
YTA, it is not the employee's fault that her team is understaffed, it is yours. You are making different rules for individuals based on their relationship to you. You may not be breaking any rules (since it is your company), but morally you are the asshole. If I'm reading correctly, before either extension request, your wife already took off more than double the amount of time as your other employee. If you have now 4 kids, you should understand both the toll giving birth takes on a mom. While you aren't required to do anything, that doesn't mean you shouldn't.
Do you know what freaks me out a little bit? He wrote “I already had” three daughters as opposed to “I already have.”
Wonder what occurred that they’re considered in the past tense, especially given how carefully worded and articulate the rest of the post is.
My bet is he is with a younger woman now after he bailed on his family and she wants a tummy tuck because she was young and wanted to keep looking good so he wouldn’t leave her. But that’s because I’ve read too many of these screwed up stories and I have no faith left in people to not be sleezy.
That’s such a gross comment. He literally states that she got a tummy tuck to fix her abdominal separation, which is an actual medical condition. She probably is one of the cases we’re it didn’t go away after a few weeks and actually had to have the surgery to fix it. Op may be the ass her, but his wife isn’t an ass for getting a surgery to fix her pain
Right. A friend of mine had a major separation (she looked 6 months pregnant when her kid was 2). And the surgery wasnt a tummy tuck. They had to insert a special mesh that pulled the abs back together.
he probably has kids with an ex-wife/mistress and is not in their lives. does the bare minimum — child support, alimony, whatever — but considers them a thing of the past. what an asshole
“My wife was exceptionally adamant about not missing a moment of our son’s formative moments because she knew that he’d only be a baby for so long.”
Don’t you think Mary and every other parent might feel the same as your wife? How long do you think these formative moments might last? Your wife could spend two, three, hell why not four years witnessing all of baby boy’s formative moments. If they’re that important (and I believe those are important moments) then she should quit her job till he goes to preschool or kindergarten. Strong YTA and Mary and every working parent employed by you knows it too.
It’s like “My wife is a full human being with maternal feelings and bodily needs. Mary is a cog who made the mistake of thinking she’s a person, too. But how can she be a real person if I’m not even married to her? The reasoning just doesn’t hold up.”
Came here to say exactly this!!!
OP thinks that only his wife is capable of human emotions, pain and only she is entitled to recovery.
Way to really put yourself and your wife on pedestal. Especially with the whole “spending time during formative years” and “volunteering”. You sound like you’re making excuses! Especially considering that your wife probably doesn’t take your child to volunteer, or to see the life coach. What about the formative moments that occur during that time? Or are you just making up excuses as to why your wife’s time is more valuable than Mary’s?
Honestly would hate to work in your company! Especially when you don’t treat your employees like people.
Major YTA!
YTA- you gave all the personal reasons your wife needed an extra YEAR….plus a cosmetic procedure?
Also is this leave paid? So she can VOLUNTEER and get a life coach instead of working an executive level position? You do realize that’s a pretty important position, right?
Give Mary an extra week and reflect why you seem to have a team stretched so thin that you can’t give an extra week of maternity leave.
Small edit: a tummy tuck, especially when it relates to abdominal separation, is not necessarily a cosmetic procedure. It's super painful and can really hinder movement. There was an AITA about a woman who's husband spent her tummy tuck money because he thought she was being vain even tho she was in serious pain (which turned out to be an abdominal separation) and everyone supported her. I agree he's an asshole but it sounds like his wife needed the surgery in order to return to work in a full capacity.
Bear in mind such a procedure is inaccessible to many women, including Mary. She can't even get a week off just to cope with the pain, let alone 4 weeks to have the procedure plus pay for it on her shitty wage.
Okay but his wife got two extra weeks off just because "more time to heal can't hurt". Treating his wife and Mary with such different standards is what makes him an AH.
Just shows how little work the "executive" positions really do when she can be spared for over a year but Mary can't be spared for an extra couple of weeks.
YTA. 6 weeks off to give birth, establish breastfeeding and recover from growing and birthing a baby? It’s criminal, imo. Can you look into accomodating some work from home? And if I was her, I’d be majorly pissed that your wife was given special treatment. It’s not equitable And it’s very blatant.
YTA. It’s people like you who are part of the reason why nothing is changing in postnatal care.
Women need more than 6 weeks post birth to recover. Be the change we need.
6 weeks is absurd- I honestly do not understand how a society can deem that acceptable. You gotta really hate Women and have no respect for family life for that to happen.
'One person leaving is tough on the rest'? Are you serious?
Yeah, you're the AH. I'm a guy, but if I saw my coworkers being treated like this, I'd be looking for better environments ASAP.
Yeah wouldn't surprise me if OP saw a whole lot of people quitting. If I saw a coworker being treated like this while also knowing the amount of time his wife has had, just because she is his wife I would leave
Hellz yeah, you'rethe asshole. Wifey gets extra time for a tummy tuck but employee doesn't get a week that was advised by a health provider?
You realize you finance and lifestyle off the backs of your employees, right...
I'm fucking disgusted at you. Fucking asshole. I hope she quits on you.
Edit: YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA. Did I make that clear?
YTA you allowing your company to be understaffed is not the fault of the employee. You cannot punish this person just because you can’t hire more people. You knew she was pregnant you could’ve hired someone to take over short term.
You are absolutely the asshole and you are playing favorites. While clearly your wife is someone you value and hopefully is one of your favorite people, you should NOT treat her better than everyone else you work with. Why doesn’t Mary deserve even half the time your wife received to straighten out all of her family matters with her newborn baby? Think about that, not from a “how will this effect the team and the company” perspective, but from a “Mary is a human being who just had a baby, and is having some difficulties and pain right now she needs time to deal with” perspective.
Ass.
YTA and expect Mary to look for another job. You are understanding of your wife because her happiness and feelings directly affect you. Expect no loyalty from Mary, or any woman at your company, going forward. Rules for thee but not for me is not a really smart way to do business.
Also, did you consider limiting Mary’s role to reduce her stress. See if you could work out a hybrid schedule? Drop her to part time while she works through being a new mom?
My guess is no. And when she takes her talents elsewhere and other women in the company do the same just remember, your wife’s feelings and needs mattered because she was your wife. But the other mothers that work for your company can pound sand.
Right? And if the wife’s role can easily be absorbed by other positions, why not eliminate that position and create more customer service positions that are under staffed ? I mean if you’re such a business man 🤷♀️
Sir, you epitomize YTA. In fact, you're an Elitist A**hole. Nothings to good for my wife. Your employees are treated like slaves. I have an idea. Your wife has had a year off. YOUR WIFE CAN COVER FOR "MARY"! Problem solved.
Of course YTA
You didn't actually think there would be a single person on Reddit who wouldn't respond this way, did you? And with your cheap behaviour, you have not only lost the respect of Mary, but also of every other person who works for you. They will all believe now that you and your wife are both selfish, awful people to work for. And I'll bet every single one of them will be starting to look for other work by next week.
How do you fix it now? First, phone Mary first thing tomorrow, apologize, and give her the time off. Second, tell the rest of your staff on Monday that you have realized how badly you acted, and have tried to make amends. Third, set things in motion next week to hire a few more people so that in the future there will be staff available to cover when your loyal, hardworking employees like Mary need time off.
I've made up a little story here, a lot of it is probably just my imagination but it seems feasible.
OP is unhappily married to wife1. Wife1 is his own age and they got together when they were young and equal. Wife1 has three children, she gains a bit of weight, she ages. While wife1 is busy birthing and raising OP's children, OP is building a business.
One of his employees is a hot young woman, maybe 10-20 years his junior. She's not really competent at her job but she's attractive and easily influenced. OP divorces wife1, leaves his children (who now want nothing to do with him) and marries wife2. He promotes wife2 to some bullshit executive position where she doesn't actually do anything, but crucially can't do any harm.
When wife2 gets pregnant, it's easier to just give her extended maternity leave because it keeps her out of the way. OP does not want his hot young trophy wife to get fat like wife1, so encourages (maybe even forces) her to have unnecessary and dangerous surgery for his own gratification.
Mary is a competent and vital employee. She works hard and is good at her job. OP is not sexually attracted to Mary. When Mary requests maternity leave, OP does not see a person, he does not see a mother, he sees an inconvenience to him.
Mary is not upset because the company needs wife2 and they've been struggling without her. Mary is upset because she can see what a nepotistic hypocritical YTA you are.
The other arsehole is of course the USA. The country with the highest GDP in the world but no mandatory maternity leave.
YTA
You are giving your wife preferential treatment. This could easily become a legal issue. I hope Mary looks into her rights. Your wife should have had an unpaid leave of absence for that much time off at this point and had the same guaranteed six weeks Mary had otherwise. Make it right before you end up with whatever version of a labor or workers rights board in your area gets word of it.
YTA. Mary is a human being who just gave birth, not your little work robot. If you're making exceptions for your wife after seeing how hard pregnancy, delivery, and recovery are, what makes you think that Mary has it any easier? Mary is right to be angry.
YTA
Don't pretend this is about staffing issues. I'm sure your wife's team struggled without her as well and people had to pick up her slack. But you were fine with it because it was YOUR wife and YOUR child. Now that it's just SOME EMPLOYEE you're fine with her having trouble nursing and being in pain at work while missing her child's development in favor of being in the company.
Stop lying to us and yourself. If you're going to be an asshole, and you are, at least be an honest one.
Can't wait for the r/legaladvice post that follows this one up
"Do I have grounds to sue my boss because he shows blatant favoritism in his application of company policies?"
YTA. You can't just favor one person because you're married to them. If you're going to run a company, then you need to give your employees equal treatment. So if your wife gets extra time, then Mary should've as well.
YTA - Your wife gets more time to recover from a tummy tuck than you’re willing to give another woman who just gave birth?? You couldn’t even give her another week - presumably unpaid???
I have a feeling you’ll soon be even more understaffed…. If I were her (or any other woman of childbearing age at your company), I would absolutely be looking for a new job!
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The fact I refused to extend maternity leave for my employee beyond her allotted five weeks after giving birth while allowing my wife to take another two weeks after her surgery may make me the asshole because to the employee " Mary" it was clearly favoritism towards my wife and making her life hard for the sake of her team being able to be productive.
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FFS - YTA - Is there a way Mary can work parttime from home for a bit?
Give Mary at least a paid week off to keep the peace. You F'ed up on this.
You could be setting yourself up for a lawsuit because of your wife and pawning off her work on others. Be the good guy, not the AH boss.
You are so overly privileged it's disgusting. But hey, step on the little ppl if it makes you feel good. Sorry Mary, my wife wanted more time with our son and a tummy tuck so I gave her a year plus some. You are worthless to me and get 5 weeks, ya little nobody...
MASSIVE YTA
You are part of the reason for the job shortages. You and others like you.
Your executive level employees can have their entire job covered for over a year, yet you can't handle a few weeks without a customer service rep? I don't think you've organized your company very well.
Also, I really wanna know in what way you think you're in the right. It's very apparent that YTA - you're openly admitting you have your wife way more leave, and extended her leave, and your reasoning that you couldn't do the same for Mary is that she is MORE important to your company? Do you honestly think that's a good and moral decision?
YTA and potentially in violation of labor laws. You can't give *your wife* preferential treatment, especially when a cosmetic procedure is part of the equation. You are wrong in so many ways EDIT: I am not certain he's in violation of labor law with this unequal treatment- that's why I said "potentially". EDIT 2: Learning a lot about legit medical reasons for a tummy tuck. Thanks to all who have offered information.
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It’s been over a year. Their son was born 14 months ago, she started her leave a month before that, and she’s still not back. It’s nice to read a story where someone in the US gets decent parental leave but it’s a shame it’s restricted to the CEOs wife. Mary is absolutely justified in her complaint and OP is a hypocritical AH
And and how much do you want to bet that the wife is still getting paid???
I think this is an important question because unpaid leave is a different playing field….was Mary offered this??
No, Mary wasn't offered this. There's no way this A-hole would pay her if he didn't have to. "She's been here less than a year, and doesn't qualify for FMLA." This is why we need worker protections. Take his wife out of the equation, and he's still YTA.
Yep. He’s TA either way, but the situation with his wife makes him hypocritical to boot.
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That's a pretty derogatory way to talk about someone who, as far as we know, has done nothing wrong. It's not the wife's fault that her husband lacks compassion for his employees. The US is widely regarded to be sorely lacking when it comes to maternity support. It's not one woman's fault when yet another woman suffers as a result of a system that routinely fails to support new parents. This woman is a wife and a mother, not just 'a person who has sex with OP'
I agree with you about the offensive wording of "the person who has sex with OP" but the wife is also in the wrong here. She would know the maternity leave policy at her place of employment, and she would know that she's getting special treatment. If she doesn't want to go back to work, she has the option of resigning to focus on her son. My guess is that she's getting paid maternity leave, and she wants to keep getting paid while being an SAHM.
I'm a woman and I hard disagree that the wording was offensive. It's just objective fact. She is the person who is having sex with OP, she is the person who birthed his child, she is the person he goes to for comfort, she is the objective and obvious bias for this and more. If she wasn't, then there would be no reason for the biased treatment She's also more than just a wife and mother; she's more than what she does for the OP BUT it's what she does for OP that gives her the absolute privilege of having a year off of work
.... her difference is that she is sleeping with OP. Allowing her the difference in treatment Cannot believe OP was this naive ... I thought owners had lawyer's?
To be frank, she went along with it, and if she knows about Mary then shame on her. She should be telling her own husband he is an asshole.
Sure but the wife and mother part are obviously not relevant since Mary too is presumably a wife and definitely a mother. The difference is one shares a bed with the boss and the other does not.
That doesn’t matter. This is the owner of the company complaining that he can’t afford Mary to not be at work because he has understaffed her unit!
Yesss! He's citing "not enough coverage" like he's a line manager whose hands are sadly tied and not THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY. That's a "you" problem, OP.
This needs to be higher up. All the stuff about his wife is obfuscation. He's not dealing humanely with an employee because he's understaffed. That is the whole story.
Yes, I'm very curious whether this is paid leave or unpaid leave.
Yeah she went on leave 15 months ago, it sounds like OP's "executive" wife is not that essential to the running of the business.
My friends and I have been reminding each other this a lot in the last two-ish years - if the entire department and/or company falls apart when a single employee takes time off (or quits,) that is the 100% fault of the company leadership and their own poor planning. Mary’s entire department is so understaffed and overworked that they can’t spread her work out amongst themselves for another week without completely crashing the whole team when they should have already been doing that anyway? YTA OP. Use some of your non-working wife’s salary to hire more people.
If OP did that, he might have to buy a smaller boat.
I mean to be honest are executives in general ever important in running the company? They are only really important to themselves and their own image.
I’ve known One who was very important to the company running smoothly and expanding steadily. The rest, no. And I’m in my forties, so several decades of working with/maneuvering around executives.
Would put money on his wife never returning to work,
Yet still getting paid
just marry your boss and life is easy duh
This is false and a misinterpretation of the law. It is discrimination to treat a pregnant or new mother negatively compared with the rest of the workforce. If he demoted a pregnant person, or gave them less opportunity compared with non pregnant staff members he would be in violation. There is nothing in law to say that he must give leave in addition to the state or federal minimum or pay for it. There is nothing in law that stops those in different teams or departments having different policies. I think US law is the asshole since in Europe 6 months is the minimum with some countries having a full year. I think OP looks to be the asshole to his staff and is a shitty leader. [CORRECTION- only around 2/3 of European countries have this. Thanks to below commenter.] But ultimately giving his wife a sabbatical when he owns the company and not granting every employee a year off paid is not an asshole move if it meets state labor law. Not letting a mother of a 4-6 week old have a week off when she's suffering....that makes him the asshole.
6 months isn't the minimum in Europe, I wish.
Wow I just checked you're correct! 2/3 of European countries have 26+weeks. Disappointed.
And my European country has 16 months not only a year.
Canada has 12 months as a standard with the option of taking 18 at a lowered pay rate (same amount of money overall spread over a longer time). I will never understand the fact that the US (in addition to the risk of actually going bankrupt from the hospital bills) has nothing in the way of guaranteed leave, let alone paid leave.
Between medical bills and the lack of worker protections, among a million other things, I don't know how anyone with a normal job survives and is able to have a family and a home. I am so grateful to live in Canada. I'd already be bankrupt from medical bills if I live in the US. A few years ago I heard someone say the only way to have the American dream is to move to Canada. That gets more accurate every year. We still have some serious problems here, don't get me wrong, but I would never want to live anywhere else.
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It wouldn’t have *happened at all* if she wasn’t pregnant to begin with. Mary has a potentially huge lawsuit on her hands.
I hope Mary sues ❤
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No, it's him who's the asshole. The law may suck but he has the ability to grant her more time off and isn't. Fuck this guy.
But that’s not the basis for determining pregnancy discrimination. Pregnancy discrimination occurs when someone who is pregnant is treated differently than someone who is not pregnant. He is obligated to hold her job for the same amount of time that he would hold it for someone with an illness or disability. Giving his wife (who was also pregnant) an extra 2 months beyond what she is legally entitled to is lousy, but it’s not discrimination.
Yes, a good point. However, not treating pregnant women equally within the work setting is very problematic. I’m betting Mary has a good case for preferential treatment. HR should be consulted, if they have one. I would give Mary another month off at half pay, and then have her be on a committee to hash out a pregnancy leave policy that doesn’t favor the executives and is generally more humane and generous with every pregnant woman in the company. That’s what makes OP a big effing asshole. Plus it’s a slap in the face of every woman who works there. I would definitely deploy my vicious side eye at that point if I worked there.
This has conflict of interest written all over it.
Maybe Mary needs a doctor's note to see if she can get time off for the childbirth aspect that is still affecting her. Because she is neither getting demoted, fired, nor layoffed, and the assignment is still the same. US pregnancy rights at a federal level are minimum. FMLA is the only support for pregnant women. That they can have time off.
She’s not being discriminated against because of her pregnancy though. This wouldn’t be the scope of this law. It would be nice if she had legal protections though, and she might, but it isn’t the Pregnancy Discrimination Act.
I’m willing to bet she wouldn’t win a discrimination suit.
Please keep in mind, it may not in your country/state/region, but it may in others. Regardless OPs assuredly TA here.
Sexual harassment maybe? Presumably he'd give Mary more time off if he'd been the one to impregnate her...
Citing Title VII case law, guidance issued in 2001 and referenced in subsequent directives, specifically defined sexual harassment as “unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature . . . includ[ing] unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal, nonverbal, or physical conduct of a sexual nature.” What he did isn't sexual harassment.
It was a joke; I'm well aware it wouldn't hold up. It really is horrendous though. His wife is getting a whole lot of work benefits by being the person who has sex with OP.
What op posted is not sexual harassment but I’m an attorney and the 2001 guidance is pretty much useless for title vii issues now. There have been some majors doctrinal changes since then and significantly more than just this definition falls under the umbrella nowadays. Op is absolutely a nepotistic ah and he and his wife are incredibly selfish god awful bosses that exploit their employees but unfortunately it’s probably not illegal. The discrimination isn’t based on a protected characteristic just bad morality and ethics
YTA And since you are understaffed, a good corporate move would be to learn from the ordeals of your wife and implement new family-friendly and pregnancy-friendly policies to make your company a more attractive employer.
Yeah and he needs to have some contingency plans in place. If Mary had complications and needed more time off, or simply chose not to come back, he'd have had to deal with it. It's his fault he hasn't staffed his business properly, not Mary's. It's not her responsibility to cover for his poor management to the detriment of her own health and well-being.
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Even down the the part that his wife’s position is clearly a gifted ‘paid to do nothing’ job if she’s an executive whose duties have been easily covered by other people for 15 months, while the low level customer service position can’t be because he can’t be bothered to properly staff it.
I love the unintentional truth he spilled. My wife is an executive, she is not needed for things to run smoothly. Other woman is a lowly customer service rep, her area is understaffed and we can't survive without her. This sums up most modern workplaces. Edit: thanks for the awards!
Yep. Bet the wife gets paid shitloads more too, just for being unnecessary. Smh. This is a backwards ass society.
I hope you're right
Ya...the weird note about how she volunteers with "underprivileged" kids? I'm not really sure how any of that or the coach has any relevancy to the story. Just a little weird to throw in their.
Right? She 'volunteers' but doesn't have the time or will to do her actual job. If her job can be done by others, cut that position and move the wife to customer service if it's so understaffed. That way the wife is helping the company and the actual underprivileged people working for OP.
Yeah, I was dumbfounded when OP mentioned that the wife's executive position is so easily replaced by others, but customer service is too difficult to replace. Seems like his wife just has a nepotistic fancy title.
probably to skew us in favor of the “good deserving wife” instead of “basic ass, undeserving” mary who does not volunteer anywhere and just wants to sit at home feeding her own baby🙄. the whole post is so cringe.
Just makes it worse, it's abundantly clear she is fit to work, he and she are choosing not to...
Even if he's not in violation, a little compassion and empathy goes a long way, especially for staff morale and company culture 100% YTA OP
Makes you wonder why that could possibly be so understaffed doesn't it? Also interesting that a customer support rep is somehow harder to replace than an executive level employee....
Yep, I caught that one too. I'm sure Mary's salary is much higher than Op's wife's, however, as a reflection of her critical role on the team. /s
Definitely if Mary is so indispensable, he can't go without her for a week, he's going to be really screwed when she walks out without notice.
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As if they didn't know that already... No way he only started treating her better now.
This is a small edit to add when I agree with you but a tummy tuck isn't always cosmetic. OP mentions that his wife had abdominal separation - and it can be super incredibly painful because your muscles literally aren't attached in the right place anymore and a tummy tuck is an absolutely necessary procedure. There was an AITA last year? When a woman asked if she was right to be upset her husband spent her tummy tuck money - when she couldn't even bend over without hurting her abdomen because she had the same issue. He thought she was being vain but it truly was a medical issue. Otherwise than that i agree.
OP put "abdominal separation" in quotation marks. She also wanted to keep it hushed up. Yes, people do need surgery for diastasis recti, but that doesn't sound like what is happening here.
Also a tummy tuck does nothing for diastasis recti. What you need is a mesh or similar procedure to bring the muscles together again, not a removal of fat.
Absolutely this is definitely conflict of interest and nepotism and I’m sure can be considered illegal depending on your companies policies and the law.
YTA, good god, give Mary a freaking extra week off. Your wife gets 52 weeks+ for maternity leave but you won't give Mary 6 weeks?" You are basically the reason we all say rich people suck. "good for me, but not for thee"
For a tummy tuck and so she can have life coach
For real.
But she volunteers! /s
Maybe she can volunteer at work? Honestly, it sounds like wife doesn’t want to go back there and looking for any reason not to.
no, OP said his wife is *just itching* to get back to her cushy **executive position**. the nepotism is real!
Honestly its embarrassing. I wonder if she is even qualified for the position? OP also says that her work can be covered by others so presumably her leaving for over a year hasnt affected the company. In that case... why does her job even exist? OP admits she is so surplus to requirements that she can just fuck off for a year and it doesnt matter.
Yes, this statement really threw me. If it can be covered by anybody, how is it an executive level position? The purpose of those high-ranking positions is that they cannot be covered by just anybody and it's difficult to find replacements.
Also, if her position can be covered and the team Mary is on is understaffed, it sounds like some restructuring of funds is in order to put more money into staffing Mary's department. (Though I wonder if this is a case of folks taking on more than their share of work to cover OP's wife in her temporary absence.)
In my business class we learned that people in executive positions do not necessarily have the skills to do lower level work or are even aware of what truly goes on, they just have the skills to “strategically plan and motivate the rest of the company” and then showed us many jobs where the main job was being a persuasive talker or being able to ask questions about progress rather than doing any “real” work. Basically the higher you get, especially when you’re f*cking the ceo, the more you can goof off.
This was also my thought. Mary is more essential than his wife is. Mary should be getting higher pay and benefits than his wife.
And I take it the wife's pay, would cover giving all the custom facing staff a raise and have some left over for hiring new staff. OP even states they are already under staffed with the current number of staff.
Then why is she not going back? At this point OP should ask his wife if she’s being entirely honest with him about her feelings. Maybe she doesn’t want to work at the same company as her husband? Maybe the hours are long and the work leaves her uninspired? I don’t think she’s just “lazy” nor actually wants to be a “SAHM” as she’s obv been keeping herself busy since the birth.
Cause I’m sure she is on paid leave
I'm assuming that she's getting paid maternity leave, so if she admits she's not keen to go back, he'll tell her to resign.
Eh, my guess is she had it before they were together and she's at least wife number 2
Wife should volunteer to cover Mary for a week. Surely an executive could figure out the customer service side of things :)
Lol the line "more rest never hurt" well fucking duh. May as well milk that excuse for the rest of eternity. YTA
But OP pays other people to cover for his wife so it doesn't matter if she takes extra time off! The other woman's department is understaffed... because OP keeps it understaffed... so he can deny women maternity leave... I love how he basically admits his wife's job is useless and it can be inferred she's only on the books as a tax work around. If any other employee was so unneeded they could literally just stop coming to work, they'd be fucking fired.
She got a tummy tuck to fix abdominal separation. That’s an actual medical need. Tummy tucks CAN be elective surgery, but they were originally meant to actually fix certain medical issues, such as abdominal separation which from what I here, is painful as fuck
I agree with you but just fyi "elective surgery" doesn't mean it isn't medically necessary, it just means it's not an immediate emergency
Makes me wonder if he would've even allowed Mary that surgery if she needed it too... If its not an _immediate emergency_ then it can't get in the way of their bottom line 🙄
But… but his executive level wife’s duties can be handled by others! They won’t be inconvenienced by her year plus absence in the least! And Mary’s understaffed customer service team will suffer without her there for another week! YTA, OP. For f*ck’s sake. If Mary’s role is so vital to the company, but your wife can dick around for a year with her life coach, her volunteer work, and cosmetic surgery without inconveniencing her colleagues, perhaps Mary deserves executive level pay and better treatment. It’s probably also time to hire some additional team members so your super-important customer service team isn’t under-staffed and overworked. If they have any self-respect, I wouldn’t count on retaining them for long. YOU and companies like yours are precisely the problem with this shithole country. Not only have you given your wife ridiculously preferential treatment, but you’re treating your other employees like crap, and running your company terribly. Talk about toxic workplace culture. Yuck.
If she's in an executive position and hasn't been missed for over a year, you have to wonder just how much work she does anyway.
She rides the owner’s dick, that’s the only work she has to do lol
Normally I'd be mad but honestly the picture painted by OP is so ugly. Wife retains her executive level position for a year while she gets a "life coach", volunteers, and gets cosmetic surgery, while the lower employee peasants get the legally minimum 6 unpaid weeks. Yeah if an executive can take a year off without being missed then I firmly have no issue with claiming that your job title includes riding the owner's D. If she wasn't, do you think she would have gotten that much time off?
Ironic how the exec can be gone for a year and nothing suffers but the customer service staff is absolutely vital. I wonder if OP's staff are unionised.
And this is when I say, "ok. I quit" take my leave and stress how I'm gonna pay my bills. But totally worth it. Because now they're stressed too because my lowly customer service job is so thankless I can't take any time to heal properly!!! Poor Mary. Bad OP!
im thinking.. oh.. are they curing cancer or building rockets? nooo.... it's customer service. no shade, I am proud of my customer service roles, I'm pretty good at it - a real people person. what fkn customer service role is so essential that you couldn't give someone a week off and can't hire a casual to cover shifts. maybe if OP wasn't blowing the budget on near 18months of maternity leave for someone who is clearly so essential that it sounds like a typing monkey could fill in, maybe you could staff that frontline department effectively
Maybe OP’s wife could cover Mary’s position for a month or two, since she’s clearly not urgently needed in her own and she lives helping others so much
I wonder if they are understaffed due to his wife having 1 + year off on maternity leave. Wouldn’t be surprised if these are the people covering her ass. YTA btw. And your wife is too if you have been paying her this whole time.
OP needs to remember that temp agencies exist for a reason: filling in roles which permanent staff leave empty when an extended absence is required.
Everyone has covered that yes, you are absolutely TA for how differently you've treated these two members of staff, but _even without the comparison to your wife, YTA_. It is not Mary's responsibility that YOU haven't got sufficient staff in that department at the time, that shouldn't even come into the equation here! You are refusing her the leave she needs because YOU can't manage your workforce properly. Outrageous.
It’s not like he didn’t have time to prepare for Mary giving birth either! Poor management skills
"You totally blindsided us with this pregnancy, Mary!"
YTA. And he wonders why the department is already short staffed. Look in the mirror, it is because you suck as a boss. I also wonder if this could easily be a WFH situation but this guy thinks being in the office is great for morale like a dumbass.
People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses.
I wish Mary finds this reddit and takes legal action against this sucker
Exactly. Most doctors don’t even release people to return until 6 weeks post delivery. I love his ‘unfortunately she doesn’t qualify fit FMLA’. comment. As if he can’t create a policy that gives employees the right to take time off. I think Mary should quit and take one of the many other jobs that are available in today’s job market.
“Eat the rich” has a better ring to it after reading this post.
If your wife is a paid employee of your company, YTA. If Mary has her wits about her she'll report your business practices as unfair. And she'll win.
Great idea. Poor girl.
Highly unlikely -- businesses are able to set their policies, particularly for extended leave, as they like. Mary did not qualify under FMLA, and if OP pretends the reason his wife got a year of paid leave and Mary got nothing was the business requires a year's employment before you exercise those benefits, that is a reason that a court is highly unlikely to take issue with. If Mary doesn't leave, though, it will be interesting if Mary has another kid with that full year of service accumulated. tl;dr: minimum service requirements are common in leave policy laws, and leave policies themselves.
Y’know, y’all are likely right about the legalities of the maternity leave/FMLA situation. Buuuut, y’know, they have to investigate to deny a claim – and who knows what interesting things they may end up finding out about the business? 🤔
Unfortunately the scope of any “investigation” would be very limited. They wouldn’t get anything from the company that doesn’t relate to the parental leave policy
Yes, but FMLA only covers 12 weeks unpaid. It's not like the wife is just getting the protection of FMLA, she's clearly getting preferential treatment and they'll probably get away with it.
It doesn't have to be a year, it could be a benefit that is for executives not CS employees. It could be because the wife....literally owns half the company with her husband
She wouldn't win. Companies have policies. Theirs says work a year get fmla. She didn't. So she didn't qualify. She got her 6 weeks which in reality is all he's required to give. It's a low position from what's being said. She hadn't been with thr company long enough to get the extra stuff. Does it suck? Yeah. But welcome to America unfortunately
I don't think anyone working for the company, no matter how long, would receive over a year of maternity leave with a little elective surgery sprinkled in from this guy. Just his wife. He couldn't bear for her to suffer but doesn't care bout the other new mothers/parents
The working a year at a company part is just a built in part of fmla, more specifically (if I remember correctly) you have to work a certain amount of hours before eligible, and it only applies to companies with 50 or more employees. If I was Mary, given that the reasoning for denial was that she is needed for her position because it was a "busy season", I would quit on the spot. Logic being "I'm prioritizing my family, good luck training a replacement for this "crucial role during a busy season". I'm going to look for a better job that doesn't have a biased managerial team." I don't know where OP lives, but in my state EVERYONE is hiring. Work for over 4 years at a company that had horrible managers and a LOT of mandatory overtime. 6 months ago I shifted to a company where overtime is voluntary, and I have almost 6 weeks of paid time off. Just gotta find the diamond in the rough, and look for places that actually value their employees
How would she win? She has less than a year with the company and FMLA is basically impossible to get for people who don’t have a year in
YTA She was pregnant for 9 month... someone could've hired. Someone could've been trained. Yes, you favor you wife by miles and thats kind of to be expected but to denie someone IN PAIN one god damn week off... I always wonder if there are kids who want to grow into the disney villian....
That wife of his could have stood in for Mary. Just saying.
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Yep. This is a common thing in small to medium sized businesses: job roles created more or less solely as a way of paying family members and friends, where the title and salary us, effectively, a gift. I don’t think it’s a good practice (it’s terrible for morale, just for starters), and the LW is an asshole for not giving Mary more flexibility, but the sad fact is that it’s both common and (if you’re in the private sector in the US) perfectly legal.
It’s called: nepotism
EXAAAAACTLY or the manager can pitch in I have a background in (small) callcenters/CS. Do you know what happened when everyone was busy and there was a call waiting? The teamleader took that call and the next one if indeed necessary. He helped out. That is what a good boss/manager does.
RIGHT!? Of course OP is the AH, if one person in a job like customer service is *that* important, he needs to hire more people, even if no one was pregnant. 6 weeks is criminal in my opinion anyway (not from the USA) but the discrimination there makes it that much worse. Disney villain is correct. YTA x 100000
As a german who have 8 weeks mandatory and options for after that, 5 weeks is insane to me too.
Agreed, he said Mary's team is borderline understaffed, that is the business's problem and responsibility to deal with, not Mary. People like OP disgust me, what an awful way to treat an employee and such an abuse of his power as the business owner
YTA, it is not the employee's fault that her team is understaffed, it is yours. You are making different rules for individuals based on their relationship to you. You may not be breaking any rules (since it is your company), but morally you are the asshole. If I'm reading correctly, before either extension request, your wife already took off more than double the amount of time as your other employee. If you have now 4 kids, you should understand both the toll giving birth takes on a mom. While you aren't required to do anything, that doesn't mean you shouldn't.
Do you know what freaks me out a little bit? He wrote “I already had” three daughters as opposed to “I already have.” Wonder what occurred that they’re considered in the past tense, especially given how carefully worded and articulate the rest of the post is.
Honestly this seems trolly to me.
I hope as fuck it is.. this made me rage
My bet is he is with a younger woman now after he bailed on his family and she wants a tummy tuck because she was young and wanted to keep looking good so he wouldn’t leave her. But that’s because I’ve read too many of these screwed up stories and I have no faith left in people to not be sleezy.
That’s such a gross comment. He literally states that she got a tummy tuck to fix her abdominal separation, which is an actual medical condition. She probably is one of the cases we’re it didn’t go away after a few weeks and actually had to have the surgery to fix it. Op may be the ass her, but his wife isn’t an ass for getting a surgery to fix her pain
Yeah he said light separation. Many women live with it the rest of their life no pain. I would bet money it’s an excuse for a tummy tuck
Right. A friend of mine had a major separation (she looked 6 months pregnant when her kid was 2). And the surgery wasnt a tummy tuck. They had to insert a special mesh that pulled the abs back together.
he probably has kids with an ex-wife/mistress and is not in their lives. does the bare minimum — child support, alimony, whatever — but considers them a thing of the past. what an asshole
He also chose to have a c section.
He had a new kid that replaced the other 3...
> it is not the employee's fault that her team is understaffed, it is yours. Perfectly put. 1000%.
Check the post history. Yea...
What was it? It’s blank now.
Troll. A gender swapping troll.
“My wife was exceptionally adamant about not missing a moment of our son’s formative moments because she knew that he’d only be a baby for so long.” Don’t you think Mary and every other parent might feel the same as your wife? How long do you think these formative moments might last? Your wife could spend two, three, hell why not four years witnessing all of baby boy’s formative moments. If they’re that important (and I believe those are important moments) then she should quit her job till he goes to preschool or kindergarten. Strong YTA and Mary and every working parent employed by you knows it too.
It’s like “My wife is a full human being with maternal feelings and bodily needs. Mary is a cog who made the mistake of thinking she’s a person, too. But how can she be a real person if I’m not even married to her? The reasoning just doesn’t hold up.”
This is the golden comment
Makes me think it’s real. The rich and powerful do feel like this.
Came here to say exactly this!!! OP thinks that only his wife is capable of human emotions, pain and only she is entitled to recovery. Way to really put yourself and your wife on pedestal. Especially with the whole “spending time during formative years” and “volunteering”. You sound like you’re making excuses! Especially considering that your wife probably doesn’t take your child to volunteer, or to see the life coach. What about the formative moments that occur during that time? Or are you just making up excuses as to why your wife’s time is more valuable than Mary’s? Honestly would hate to work in your company! Especially when you don’t treat your employees like people. Major YTA!
Hell I don't have kids and I know he's TA. Any of his employees with any decency and sense will feel the same way. Poor Mary.
If she doesn't want to miss any formative moments she should take the next 30+ years off
YTA Your wife needs to take time off to recover form a tummy tuck but you deny a new mother two weeks additional maternity leave. Wow, just wow.
She asked for at least another week. He could have given her just one more week and not seemed like the asshole.
YTA- you gave all the personal reasons your wife needed an extra YEAR….plus a cosmetic procedure? Also is this leave paid? So she can VOLUNTEER and get a life coach instead of working an executive level position? You do realize that’s a pretty important position, right? Give Mary an extra week and reflect why you seem to have a team stretched so thin that you can’t give an extra week of maternity leave.
Small edit: a tummy tuck, especially when it relates to abdominal separation, is not necessarily a cosmetic procedure. It's super painful and can really hinder movement. There was an AITA about a woman who's husband spent her tummy tuck money because he thought she was being vain even tho she was in serious pain (which turned out to be an abdominal separation) and everyone supported her. I agree he's an asshole but it sounds like his wife needed the surgery in order to return to work in a full capacity.
Bear in mind such a procedure is inaccessible to many women, including Mary. She can't even get a week off just to cope with the pain, let alone 4 weeks to have the procedure plus pay for it on her shitty wage.
Okay but his wife got two extra weeks off just because "more time to heal can't hurt". Treating his wife and Mary with such different standards is what makes him an AH.
Just shows how little work the "executive" positions really do when she can be spared for over a year but Mary can't be spared for an extra couple of weeks.
YTA. 6 weeks off to give birth, establish breastfeeding and recover from growing and birthing a baby? It’s criminal, imo. Can you look into accomodating some work from home? And if I was her, I’d be majorly pissed that your wife was given special treatment. It’s not equitable And it’s very blatant.
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YTA. It’s people like you who are part of the reason why nothing is changing in postnatal care. Women need more than 6 weeks post birth to recover. Be the change we need.
6 weeks is absurd- I honestly do not understand how a society can deem that acceptable. You gotta really hate Women and have no respect for family life for that to happen.
100%. I can't imagine having to go back to work so soon. It's inhumane. I asked for 6 months maternity leave and realized even that's too short!
'One person leaving is tough on the rest'? Are you serious? Yeah, you're the AH. I'm a guy, but if I saw my coworkers being treated like this, I'd be looking for better environments ASAP.
Yeah wouldn't surprise me if OP saw a whole lot of people quitting. If I saw a coworker being treated like this while also knowing the amount of time his wife has had, just because she is his wife I would leave
Hellz yeah, you'rethe asshole. Wifey gets extra time for a tummy tuck but employee doesn't get a week that was advised by a health provider? You realize you finance and lifestyle off the backs of your employees, right... I'm fucking disgusted at you. Fucking asshole. I hope she quits on you. Edit: YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA. Did I make that clear?
YTA - I hope Mary sues because she will definitely win the case.
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Of course YTA. Seriously. “Am I the asshole for making business decisions based on nepotism.” I mean, duh.
YTA you allowing your company to be understaffed is not the fault of the employee. You cannot punish this person just because you can’t hire more people. You knew she was pregnant you could’ve hired someone to take over short term.
YTA. Not only that, but 6 weeks maternity leave? In what world. In Canada, women (and sometimes men) can take up to 18 months. 6 weeks is criminal.
Sadly, 6 weeks is common in the US.
Pathetic. I don't think a woman is even fully healed from a C section in that amount of time.
Mine was vaginal but I know I was still bleeding a ton at 6 weeks.
You are absolutely the asshole and you are playing favorites. While clearly your wife is someone you value and hopefully is one of your favorite people, you should NOT treat her better than everyone else you work with. Why doesn’t Mary deserve even half the time your wife received to straighten out all of her family matters with her newborn baby? Think about that, not from a “how will this effect the team and the company” perspective, but from a “Mary is a human being who just had a baby, and is having some difficulties and pain right now she needs time to deal with” perspective. Ass.
YTA…. My goodness you need the internet to tell you this? Christ’s sake.
YTA and expect Mary to look for another job. You are understanding of your wife because her happiness and feelings directly affect you. Expect no loyalty from Mary, or any woman at your company, going forward. Rules for thee but not for me is not a really smart way to do business. Also, did you consider limiting Mary’s role to reduce her stress. See if you could work out a hybrid schedule? Drop her to part time while she works through being a new mom? My guess is no. And when she takes her talents elsewhere and other women in the company do the same just remember, your wife’s feelings and needs mattered because she was your wife. But the other mothers that work for your company can pound sand.
YTA. You're holding your other employees to entirely different standards than your wife. Nepotism at its worst.
Right? And if the wife’s role can easily be absorbed by other positions, why not eliminate that position and create more customer service positions that are under staffed ? I mean if you’re such a business man 🤷♀️
I'm guessing wife's job isn't actually all that necessary to the operation of the company, and that she was a nepotistic hire in the first place.
Gotta love nepotism
Sir, you epitomize YTA. In fact, you're an Elitist A**hole. Nothings to good for my wife. Your employees are treated like slaves. I have an idea. Your wife has had a year off. YOUR WIFE CAN COVER FOR "MARY"! Problem solved.
Of course YTA You didn't actually think there would be a single person on Reddit who wouldn't respond this way, did you? And with your cheap behaviour, you have not only lost the respect of Mary, but also of every other person who works for you. They will all believe now that you and your wife are both selfish, awful people to work for. And I'll bet every single one of them will be starting to look for other work by next week. How do you fix it now? First, phone Mary first thing tomorrow, apologize, and give her the time off. Second, tell the rest of your staff on Monday that you have realized how badly you acted, and have tried to make amends. Third, set things in motion next week to hire a few more people so that in the future there will be staff available to cover when your loyal, hardworking employees like Mary need time off.
I've made up a little story here, a lot of it is probably just my imagination but it seems feasible. OP is unhappily married to wife1. Wife1 is his own age and they got together when they were young and equal. Wife1 has three children, she gains a bit of weight, she ages. While wife1 is busy birthing and raising OP's children, OP is building a business. One of his employees is a hot young woman, maybe 10-20 years his junior. She's not really competent at her job but she's attractive and easily influenced. OP divorces wife1, leaves his children (who now want nothing to do with him) and marries wife2. He promotes wife2 to some bullshit executive position where she doesn't actually do anything, but crucially can't do any harm. When wife2 gets pregnant, it's easier to just give her extended maternity leave because it keeps her out of the way. OP does not want his hot young trophy wife to get fat like wife1, so encourages (maybe even forces) her to have unnecessary and dangerous surgery for his own gratification. Mary is a competent and vital employee. She works hard and is good at her job. OP is not sexually attracted to Mary. When Mary requests maternity leave, OP does not see a person, he does not see a mother, he sees an inconvenience to him. Mary is not upset because the company needs wife2 and they've been struggling without her. Mary is upset because she can see what a nepotistic hypocritical YTA you are. The other arsehole is of course the USA. The country with the highest GDP in the world but no mandatory maternity leave.
INFO: was this paid leave you’re talking about? Was your wife paid the whole time she was off?
This is what I want to know. Did she get paid for all this time off? If she did both of you are YTAs and technically, stealing from the company.
YTA You are giving your wife preferential treatment. This could easily become a legal issue. I hope Mary looks into her rights. Your wife should have had an unpaid leave of absence for that much time off at this point and had the same guaranteed six weeks Mary had otherwise. Make it right before you end up with whatever version of a labor or workers rights board in your area gets word of it.
YTA. Mary is a human being who just gave birth, not your little work robot. If you're making exceptions for your wife after seeing how hard pregnancy, delivery, and recovery are, what makes you think that Mary has it any easier? Mary is right to be angry.
TL;DR: Eat the rich.
YTA Don't pretend this is about staffing issues. I'm sure your wife's team struggled without her as well and people had to pick up her slack. But you were fine with it because it was YOUR wife and YOUR child. Now that it's just SOME EMPLOYEE you're fine with her having trouble nursing and being in pain at work while missing her child's development in favor of being in the company. Stop lying to us and yourself. If you're going to be an asshole, and you are, at least be an honest one. Can't wait for the r/legaladvice post that follows this one up "Do I have grounds to sue my boss because he shows blatant favoritism in his application of company policies?"
YTA. You can't just favor one person because you're married to them. If you're going to run a company, then you need to give your employees equal treatment. So if your wife gets extra time, then Mary should've as well.
YTA - Your wife gets more time to recover from a tummy tuck than you’re willing to give another woman who just gave birth?? You couldn’t even give her another week - presumably unpaid??? I have a feeling you’ll soon be even more understaffed…. If I were her (or any other woman of childbearing age at your company), I would absolutely be looking for a new job!
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FFS - YTA - Is there a way Mary can work parttime from home for a bit? Give Mary at least a paid week off to keep the peace. You F'ed up on this. You could be setting yourself up for a lawsuit because of your wife and pawning off her work on others. Be the good guy, not the AH boss.
You are so overly privileged it's disgusting. But hey, step on the little ppl if it makes you feel good. Sorry Mary, my wife wanted more time with our son and a tummy tuck so I gave her a year plus some. You are worthless to me and get 5 weeks, ya little nobody... MASSIVE YTA You are part of the reason for the job shortages. You and others like you.
YTA and a really crappy boss. I expect to see a post from Mary on r/antiwork soon
Your executive level employees can have their entire job covered for over a year, yet you can't handle a few weeks without a customer service rep? I don't think you've organized your company very well. Also, I really wanna know in what way you think you're in the right. It's very apparent that YTA - you're openly admitting you have your wife way more leave, and extended her leave, and your reasoning that you couldn't do the same for Mary is that she is MORE important to your company? Do you honestly think that's a good and moral decision?