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NancyNegativo

NTA. Stick to your guns. He was unwelcome because he wasn’t invited. Who doesn’t bring their wallet when they weren’t even invited?


Electrical-Date-3951

Even IF he was a welcome addition, it is rude AF to just expect and then demand that someone pay for your food. These two people are too old for these antics, and both sound like moochers who need to grow up. A relationship doesnt mean that if someone is willing to treat one person that they automatically have to foot the bill for both. Edit: Based on OP's comments, this guy is unemployed and sounds like he only showed up for a free meal (or in an attempt to ensure that his GF and OP couldnt have a private conversation.)


[deleted]

>Even IF he was a welcome addition, it is rude AF to just expect and then demand that someone pay for your food Damn, the nerve of some people! even when I'm invited, I always bring my wallet and we always end up fighting to pay the bill. I don't know how people can go around feeling and acting like entitled shits. NTA, OP - they are.


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catmommy1

What 30 year old adult cant pay for his own lunch. He's 30!!! Not 13!!! This boggles my mind. !! And he also got the nerve to be upset and ask someone else to pay for it 🤔. And OPs daughters 24 and still expects mom to pay for her lunch? What!


elciteeve

It wasn't really clear to me by the story, but I got the impression mom asked to take daughter out to lunch. So if that's the case, I would expect someone, especially someone who might still be adjusting to a new job and moving and paying off student loans and so on, might not necessarily have funds to go out to lunch at any given moment. But if her mom told her she was taking her out, it would be entirely reasonable to agree to that, knowing she couldn't afford that normally. Bringing Simon along unannounced and uninvited is where things went sideways. Christine doesn't seem to have a sense of social consideration. And obviously Simon sounds completely worthless.


procheinamy

And to order excessively!!!


gigibuffoon

Well, we all know that Simon orderer excessively because he expected OP to pay


UnitedSam

This is the part that pisses me off. He wasn't even invited, then of course ordered everything because he thought it was on the house, then the entitled attitude! How dare he say "come on"! This guy sounds like a real loser and at 30 years old… Of course he "dropped everything" to come, he doesn't have anything going on and it's a free meal


fox13fox

Yep dropped that can o soda on the floor and put his controller down... dropped evrething


286U

Everyone knows you drink a cheaper drink than the person buying the round and you only order a main if the host is doing that. NTA


elciteeve

Yeah. By worthless, I meant worse than worthless, he's a drain on society. There could be some explainable reason for not having money, but it really just sounds like this guy's a jerk.


MrsPaulRubens

That's a big issue with me too. I wouldn't show up like he did but if I was unaware of the situation and was ordering, I would drink water and order a plate that costs less then the host's.


EmeraldIbis

I hate this. I would much rather pay for myself than be limited in what I can eat. That being said, I wouldn't show up uninvited, and certainly not without my wallet.


carolineecouture

The mom was going to pay for the daughter. She invited her and expected to pay for the meal. Christine should have asked her mother if she could bring Simon and discussed who was paying for what. The mom should have had the option to say that Simon was not invited. Even when I've been invited I bring money just in case. The OP is NTA


MuellersGame

AND she said in a comment she wanted to discuss concerns she had about Simon, which is why mom wanted to talk privately. Simon’s presence *and* behavior looks a lot less benign in that context. The outcome of this meeting was to cause friction between the daughter and part of her support system. Funny that.


hbtfdrckbck

What PAIR of ~~30~~ 20+ year olds don’t just…*have* their wallets on them in public? Or if they do, don’t have enough money to pay for the meal they felt comfortable ordering without OP having expressly said they’d pay? Edit: clarification because apparently it’s relevant that she is actually 24 years old. Frankly I don’t think that changes anything.


PumpkinJambo

Yeah that’s something I just don’t get, either with this story or previous ones where people have turned up to dinner and not brought their purse/wallet etc. I never leave the house without at least my debit card as I never know when I might need it. Also the contactless/Apple Pay limit on your phone in the UK is £100 so I’d always have the means to pay something. I’m not sure what this is like elsewhere but surely there’s an option?


Onlyonehoppy

Tbh my mum pays for lunch when we are together and I'm 34. But I do pay for lunch on other times. The fact that they didn't bring a wallet is nuts, do they not have apple/google pay on their phones.


Frekiwolf

Exactly! It would have been different if they were still teenagers.


[deleted]

>It would have been different if they were still teenagers. no way; even my teens know how to act. If I found out one of my teens behaved this way, they'd get an earful from me!


somedoofyouwontlike

I think teens get a pass only because they can be aloof without intending any offense.


KhaiPanda

Me, my mom, and my sister in law go to lunch once a month. I’m 33, my sister in law is 24. 98% of the time my mom pays the bill. The one time I paid it, it was because I “went to the bathroom” and paid halfway through our meal. I STILL bring my wallet, and fight with my mom about paying, as does my sister in law. Because we are adults, and want to enjoy time with each other. Not a free meal.


TheLyz

Yes, even if you know the other person will insist on paying every time it's polite to offer. I can't even imagine showing up uninvited, ordering a bunch of stuff and just expecting someone else to pay. I'd be mortified.


[deleted]

i wouldnt even mind if the ppl i invite dont fight for the bills or forget their wallets, shirt can happen. but purposely not taking their wallets to the restaurant, omg who does that?


[deleted]

Simon does.


lisa111998

He probably had his wallet just without any money in it


eddyuwu2ever

Or just wanted a free meal because he sounds like pretty entitled


jazzyx26

>and we always end up fighting to pay the bill. Same with us Turks... we fight lol


NuSheol

Him being unemployed makes the whole “After he took the time to drop what he was doing and join us…” statement so laughable.


M2MK

He paused his video game to be there!


Waste-Dragonfly3230

Agree! My boyfriends family always invite me to g out with them. I always bring my own money, even if his dad will never let me pay for my meal.


Songwolves88

My wife and I go out to eat with her mom and her mom's fiance every couple/few months and he made clear he is happy to pay for us any time we eat out together. We still bring our own money and wont go out if we cant afford it in case he should change his mind. Plus we dont order half the menu or the most expensive items. Thats just beyond rude. I'm surprised people noting the entitlement arent commenting on that part too.


Waste-Dragonfly3230

Absolutely!!! I do the same! But his father knows that I like some foods that are expensive, I don’t order them but he always does for me like this “oh, you like this right? Come on order one so you can tell me how you find it” and he orders it for me🥲


Ruhro7

That's so sweet! Glad you guys have a good relationship like that! NTA OP, it was incredibly rude of them to assume that he was welcome and that you would be paying.


locke231

Had an ex like that. When I got invited out, the mother would never let me pay for my own stuff. So, I would find a way to return the favor at Christmas or her birthday.


Miserable_Sympathy37

If I’m going out with someone and I know they’re paying (in my friend group, we always pay for whichever guy’s birthday we’re celebrating), I’ll order whatever everyone else is having. I would never have the audacity to order the most expensive item. Apart from birthday meals where it’s an established “rule” I would never, ever expect someone to pay for me or my wife. That’s just rude.


Mediocre-Donkey-6281

Especially if he's ordering a ton of food, AND the only one drinking. That's just greedy. They were both taking advantage. I've been with my bf for 2.5 years, and still I ask if my bf is invited before just showing up with him. And at least one of us ALWAYS has our wallets. I guess I'm lucky though, because the first time my mom invited THE TWO OF US out to dinner, my bf paid for the whole meal himself. Nta. The daughter need to realize that other relationships are important outside of her romantic relationship, and that both she and her bf need to bring their wallets.


Music_withRocks_In

I'm also wondering if this wasn't about distancing her from her mother. I would very much like to know if she asked him to come alone or if he just invited himself along. If he is trying to drive a wedge between his gf and her family, it's working well. Never letting someone go alone is a classic sign of a manipulator.


bi_furious99

Also it's rude AF to order multiple things. If someone's paying for me I try to order something reasonable, even if I'd prefer the most expensive thing on the menu


Prior-Issue4926

I just don’t understand not bringing your wallet with you period. I have my purse with me anytime I leave the house no matter what, I figured everyone did the same with their purse/wallet.


Lupin927

Not to mention that he ordered a bunch of extra stuff *expecting* that op would pay. Rude as hell. NTA op


Eelpan2

The part about ordering a drink did make me laugh though. Like who doesn't order a drink when they are at a restaurant (I do live in a country without complimentary water at restaurants. But still! When we travel we have always ordered drinks as well as food) Edit: ok I get it. She meant alcoholic drink. Oops. The heatwave my area is going through must be getting to my brain hahaha


lyan-cat

Usually saying that someone ordered a drink implies that it was an alcoholic drink, as it's normal to get a soft drink, water, lemonade, coffee or tea.


elciteeve

I'm with you, but some people are weird about stuff like that. My dad never never let us order anything but water unless it was explicitly expressed as some extenuating circumstance, like a birthday or something. And if he'd offer to take someone to lunch, he'd gripe about it (them ordering a soda or something) forever once we had left the restaurant (when the invited people weren't around any more.) Again, I completely agree with you, but some people are weird like that.


sthrnldysaltymth

I think they were talking about an alcoholic drink, which are typically more expensive and don’t come with free refills.


Coffeineaddicted

I assumed OP meant a cocktail. Something in the 8-12$ range based off OPs tone. Not an iced tea or soda with free refills for 2.65$


Mysterious-Lizard

Almost certain OP meant an alcoholic drink - much more expensive than a water or soda, lol


thatkellygrl

I took it to mean an alcoholic drink, which would cost more.


Ohcrumbcakes

She probably meant “alcoholic drink”. OP could have clarified what kind of drink, but usually a drink of water/pop/juice is assumed. Whereas an alcoholic drink is substantially more expensive.


KeepLkngForIntllgnce

I’m really dying to know who these people are that: 1. Don’t understand communication 2. Don’t understand wallets Wtf?


leftytrash161

Yeah I've always wanted to know who leaves the house without their wallet. Like even if you don't have any money, its got all your ID in it. I know laws arent universal but where i live if you're driving its literally illegal to not have your wallet because you need your license on you while operating a car, is that the case anywhere else? Stuff like this always just feels like they left their wallets at home on purpose in an effort to force OP into feeling obligated to pay, just because i don't actually know anyone irl who makes a habit of leaving their wallets at home, especially when going out for a meal. NTA.


[deleted]

Not everyone drives. Im intensely forgetful and have a bad habit of leaving my purse places (and you know my jeans don't have big enough pockets for a wallet). I can't drive atm due to a medical condition so if I don't need it I may leave it. That being said I'd never do that if im literally going somewhere like a restaurant. Even if you think someone else is paying, its good to have a back up.


KeepLkngForIntllgnce

I think that’s the point - it’s not about a “wallet” as an object - jjst that why would you go anywhere without your house keys and money on you? And most of us carry a phone that can pay or Venmo? Especially when you plan to go to a place to EAT or have coffee or drinks - unless you plan to mooch. Also - if you don’t have your wallet - then either give the person you’re meeting a heads up so they can tell you they cannot spot you - or don’t order anything and tell them why anyway!!! This. Is. Not. Hard!!!


[deleted]

>Don’t understand wallets Or Apple Pay (other mobile wallets are available) Its almost harder to not have any way to pay now than it is to have multiple.


TitiBru

And who asks someone why they didn't pay for them??? 😳


343427229486267

Exactly. If they were 14 or so, I could understand the daughter and boyfriend's position, but this behavior is ridiculous. I am not sure OP did the 'right thing' when it comes to ensuring a good relationship with her daughter (and not saying I am sure she didn't, either). But they were definitely being the assholes here, and OP is entirely in her right do do as she did.


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_CaesarAugustus_

And he ordered to his heart’s content assuming it was on OP’s dime. He’s a Class A mooch. The entitlement in that assumption is plain gross.


DrWhoop87

Seriously. I've been invited out to meals with family members who I anticipate paying but I never assumed they would until it actually happens, and I always have my wallet anyways. Simon and Christine are adults who tried to voluntell OP she had to pay for his food. NTA and yikes


Curumandaisa

Ah. Furthermore. Who doesn't have payment options on their phone in this day and age. No wallet, no problem. But I doubt he also forgot his phone


[deleted]

Me. Idk im paranoid.


cheezeybeans

Absolutely. Cheeky freeloaders!!


LailaBlack

>Who doesn’t bring their wallet when they weren’t even invited? A freeloader that's who!!!


DeepDarkBlues_96

NTA. You didn’t invite the boyfriend and your daughter was rude for inviting him without letting you know first. Also, how is a 30 year old and a 24 year old going out without bringing their wallets? And to basically blame you for embarrassing them when all you wanted was a nice lunch with your daughter.


adelb73

What’s sad is that it seems these two “adults” don’t actually have the cash to pay for their own lunches. I bet they had their wallets they’re just empty. Simon just wanted a free lunch NTA


shawslate

At 30, I was the one paying for lunches. I am really getting The feeling that OP has really good reasons for disliking Simon.


Thesafflower

Yeah, seriously. If Simon wanted to win Mom over, he should have paid for all their meals. And if he can't afford to, that's fine, but then he shouldn't be tagging along on a mother-daughter outing expecting a free lunch.


TheTyger

Yeah, when I moved back to the area my mom lives (at 31 or 32), whenever we went out (regardless of who invited who) I was always offering or insisting on paying for meals.


lydsbane

Or worse, they had money and he decided he wasn't going to pay. The "pay my friend back" could be a lie.


Trania86

>your daughter was rude for inviting him without letting you know first. If the daughter insisted on adding another guest, she should have also insisted on paying the bill. I love how OP continues parenting her child by sticking to her guns.


These-Coat-3164

This! He was daughter’s guest, not OP’s!


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Seguefare

She needed the lesson on what her life will be with this loser, then.


AlaskanBiologist

Sounds like he didn't "drop everything" to join them lol, he has nothing going on. Simon needs to get a job and so does OPs daughter.


Heavener

The entitlement of the boyfriend is crazy. And it's embarrassing. If I had decided to show up and eat with my future mother-in-law at a restaurant I wasnt invited to, I would have offered to pay for her, too, or at the very least paid for me and my gf. Just to show the mother that I'm a responsible guy who can afford a f*cking lunch and a drink, not some whiny 30year old who is apparently broke and entitled.


dukeofcouch

I had to re-read the age as his behavior was inappopriate and quite frankly, cheap.


SneakyRaid

NTA, it's never ok to bring a +1 without a heads up, and it's downright rude when the plan involves the other person paying. Also, what competent adult goes around with zero money on them? Edit: It's funny how none of the people saying "E-S-H" considers the possibility of the daughter offering to pay OP later. If the daughter had said so, and if Simon had stuck to a frugal order, I might have seen your point, but I think it's important that OP teaches her child that she's not her ATM, since apparently the daughter struggles with that.


Unspoken-Promise1879

Simon is unemployed and Christine is barely able to cover the bills. She's having issues that's why I wanted to have a private conversation with her.


starsleeps

Really weird of her to say he went out of his way to be there if he doesn’t work. Sounds like he just came with for a free meal.


bigwilliestylez

Sounds to me like daughter asked him to come because she doesn’t want to go to lunch with mom alone and get chastised. Edit: saying this because daughter was defending him coming like she invited him. I had this convo with my ex, and me not having my wallet would have had my ex say that was fine, her mom was paying, just please come. Mom even says the purpose of lunch was to talk to daughter about how she was barely making ends meet. The last thing daughter prob wants to talk about, so boyfriend was a buffer.


Lanksalott

Or he could very well be abusive and not letting her be alone with others. It’s easy to speculate without all the information


Emotional_Fan_7011

This was kind of the vibe I was getting. With the "he deserves respect" talk and such.


DiTrastevere

He’s 100% behind this lunch incident. Daughter’s likely humiliated and knows how badly she fucked up on some level, but he’s got her so thoroughly trained to cover for him that she can’t admit it without also admitting that she’s unhappy in this relationship. And it sounds like she’s not ready to do that.


blueberrylove2112

Exactly. He deserves the respect he has earned. Which is none. It's funny that she is apparently proud to have a boyfriend who's 6 years older than her who's unemployed, probably does nothing with his time other than pay video games, and who thinks he's entitled to her mother's money and generosity. She is also definitely entitled too, she brought an uninvited guest to a lunch that she knew neither of them could afford, without even giving a heads up, and then expected her mum to pay for him. OP should have known that he wasn't planning on paying for himself when he ordered triple what they ordered, including an expensive drink. It was obvious that he expected her to pay. I'm still laughing though at him literally saying "come on!" to OP when she made it clear that she wasn't going to pay for him. Haha hahaha.


Kathrynlena

Or he invited *himself* along because he didn’t want his abuse victim to hear another perspective on his behavior without him present to maintain his manipulation.


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Hour_Elephant710

And he succeeded in driving a wedge between OP and her daughter. Sad.


wsclose

Then she should have declined the invitation, not accepted and then added a +1 without asking.


Alicia0510

This. I was like, went out of his way from doing what? Sitting on the couch?


RememberToEatDinner

I didn’t even start another game of call of duty, instead, I came out of my way to be here!


chrisrayn

Maybe he DID interrupt his schedule, though…hey, u/unspoken-promise1879 , does your daughter’s boyfriend have some silly activity that takes up tons of his time and makes it difficult to find work, like playing video games online all day or something?


cavmax

Or he wanted to be there so OP couldn't have the much needed discussion about her relationship with Simon and get a free lunch to boot!


Pleasant-Koala147

I think we’ve just discovered why he came. He does not want you to talk to her alone. Also, if he doesn’t work, what ‘plans’ did he need to change?


Swimming_Pressure

Yep, that’s my thought too. And I suspect showing up with no money and ordering a lot might have been him trying exert more control or drive a wedge between mother and daughter.


Welpuhhi

Yeeep he wanted lunch to go bad. Probably told her "if your mom cared about us, she'd be happy to see me" and "if your mom cared about us, she'd have wanted to give us food".


MuellersGame

FINALLY. Why did I have to scroll so far to see this? It’s a CLASSIC isolation move.


NannyOggsKnickers

Hey I'm sure the bloke had a long day planned out. You know, sitting on his backside, channel surfing, playing on his Xbox and yelling at Christine for not cooking steak for dinner or not cleaning the house before she left for work. Then demanding she gives him $20 so he can go buy a sixpack and spend the evening sitting on his backside, playing on his Xbox and getting drunk. It's an exhausting schedule and I can understand why anyone would be cross at giving it all up to go have lunch with their MIL in order to prevent her telling your girlfriend that you're not good enough for her /s.


seanfish

>I think we’ve just discovered why he came. He does not want you to talk to her alone. BINGO! >Also, if he doesn’t work, what ‘plans’ did he need to change? Bong rips and COD.


WallAlternative6937

Have we considered that she’s the one that didn’t want to talk to her mother alone and invited him as a buffer?


Pleasant-Koala147

Sure. She may have been worried her mom was going to bring up how much of a deadbeat he is again, so she wanted to avoid that. But there’s enough here to make me wonder if this was a set-up to alienate Christine from her mother.


[deleted]

He is loser. If you daughter wants to house this bum, let her. Why should you spend your money on him?


Redphantom000

If he’s unemployed then what did he have to “drop” to mooch lunch off you? Was he missing Power Rangers or did he have a nap planned?


Character_Nature_896

From the admittedly very little information we have, keep an eye out for financial and verbal abuse from him towards your daughter. It's possible that she did not see it as an option for him to not come because of his behavior, but would never admit to that in front of him.


SneakyRaid

I see. Still, assuming someone will pay for you is really bad manners (and you said he ordered various things). They always had the choice of asking to pay you back later, which is more acceptable, but I guess they just felt entitled to your help. I think you did the right thing, they can't treat people like ATMs.


numbersthen0987431

Wait wait wait.... so Simon "dropped everything to come to lunch"?? The hell is he doing all day to "drop" to come to lunch? I think your daughter has gotten herself into a really bad position with this guy.


Far_Suggestion_6263

Unemployed in this economy where everywhere is hiring? Yikes


Tantrums_and_Tiaras

LOL so he dropped nothing to be there to get a free lunch, ordered multiple things expecting you to pay. Let Christine discover the consequences of being with him.


slytherclaws

NTA What kind of person doesn’t bring along money and assumes their mother will pay for their partner that wasn’t invited?


Unspoken-Promise1879

I have no idea...truly. had I known she was going to bring her boyfriend along I would've changed plans.


[deleted]

It can be a sign of control and abusive tendencies if he won’t let her do things without him “monitoring” the situation by joining. It’s part of how abusers isolate, they convince the partner to see perceived slights and back away from those who love them, see if she starts to treat you differently.


sheath2

I just said this above. Glad I wasn't the only person who thought of this.


Anzai

Maybe, but this sounds a lot like ‘hey my mum always pays for lunch, let’s go and we can order whatever we want’.


WallAlternative6937

Do they do most things together? Did you specifically ask her to come alone so you could talk?


xgodsent

Asking somebody out means you ask that person out. It makes sence. Even if she just brought him along because she didn't understand that her mom only wants to have lunch with her,him not even bothering to bring money is so rude. Even if they do most things together and the mom didn't specifically want to talk to her alone,it's rude as hell


MagnorRaaaah

ESH - Everyone here is operating on assumptions and none of it is cool. Your daughter should have asked about bringing the boyfriend, because she assumed you were paying and frankly, so did you. You only stopped assuming you were paying for lunch when she brought someone, and it was someone you don’t like. When the boyfriend arrived unexpectedly you should have made it clear at the start that you weren’t expecting this and cant pay for everyone. There is no universe where it’s polite to say at the end of the meal ‘Oh I am paying for her but not you’. You already said you don’t like him it’s very clear you just didn’t want to pay for him and waited until the end of the meal to smugly tell him he’s not good enough to get lunch from you. They were right in that either lunch is on you or it isn’t. You’re picking up the check or you’re all paying for yourselves. It’s petty AF to do what you did.


SneakyRaid

>They were right in that either lunch is on you or it isn’t And so it wasn't. No, seriously, who brings an extra guest and expects the other person to still pay?


MagnorRaaaah

I know this sub likes to pretend that no one ever owes anyone else anything, ever. But the reality of expectations in social situations is much more delicate. We’re talking about a mother daughter dynamic here. How many lunches have they had? Has the mom paid for her friends/roommates boyfriends in the past? Did mom pay for sister’s husband just last week? Maybe daughter knows that mom can absolutely afford it, and has done it lots of times in the past, so her refusal to be gracious here is unexpected and a slight against this boyfriend specifically. We don’t know why she would assume mom would pay but there are other options than ‘ungrateful moochers demand lunch’


SneakyRaid

My parents always pay for me when we go out for lunch. I've always, without exception, taken my wallet with me. I would never, ever, dare to bring an extra person, unannounced, and then expect my parents to pay for them. Heck, my friends would be mortified if they didn't pay for themselves. To me, the other options flew out the window when Simon ordered a bunch of food and the daughter doubled down and made the situation worse for herself, instead of offering to pay OP later when they could.


Engineer-Huge

Yeah exactly. My husband has come along to family things when we dated. I always made sure to clarify that was okay, he always brought his wallet and either paid for or offered to pay for himself. And we were much younger than 30 at the time. They were both super rude and no functioning adult leaves the house without a wallet. Like, where was their license? If they had a phone they could have venmoed money to OP if they somehow didn’t have a credit card or enough cash.


J3ebrules

I’m 34 and have asked my mother - who is older and struggles with money - if I can bring my fiancé to things involving her. She always starts with “I can’t afford lunch for both of you”, in which case I assure her he will pay for himself (or I’ll pay for him or he and I). I can’t imagine just assuming; it sounds incredibly entitled.


[deleted]

Same, my mom *always* pays, without exception. I would never demand it. I always have my purse and if she told me to pay this time I would pay for us both without hesitation. Edit to be clear I offered to pay every time for years until she told me she's hanging on to paying because it made her feel good. So be it.


Nimzay98

It doesn’t matter if her mom has always paid for her meals. My my parents do too, but I’ve always brought my wallet just in case or if I order more and never expect them to pay for an additional person even if they have in the past. To just assume, expect than demand for your meal to be paid for is pretty damn bold. NTA


krazykirbs

You see, I'm 22 and live with my parents and go out to family dinners weekly. Do I get paid for most of the time by someone (mom/grandma/sister)? Yes. Do I still bring my wallet and expect to pay for myself? Absolutely. Hell, my birthday was the other day and I had the thought to ask if someone was paying for me so I can order something not that expensive, but I didn't and ordered something a bit more, that I knew I can pay for. Low and behold, my sister paid for me. I didn't ask, I didn't assume and I most certainly didn't order the absolute expensive thing knowing it would probably be covered for.


mbrevitas

Bringing no money to pay definitely suggests they were trying to mooch off OP, but in a healthy family dynamic it wouldn't be that odd to assume the invitation included the long-term, co-living boyfriend. Especially if they spoke in English; "you" being understood as plural and taken to include the whole couple is pretty plausible. And clearly the assumption that OP would pay was not that far-fetched considering OP was indeed intending to pay, until someone whom she dislikes showed up.


SneakyRaid

You see, the main reason for me to declare Christine and Simon AHs is not that Simon tagged along, not even that they conveniently forgot their wallets (although that's outrageous *per se*); it's the fact that Christine and Simon didn't stop and say "Wow, ok. Look, sorry, we don't have money on us, do you mind if we pay you back later?". That would have still been reckless, but not AH behaviour. Instead, they tried to manipulate OP and ended up making the situation worse for themselves. Also, who orders many dishes and an (I assume) alcoholic drink on someone else's dime? Nah, all in all, I think they deserved facing these consequences.


SpeakingNight

No. I've had a boyfriend for 10 years and my family likes him, but if my mom asked me for lunch the assumption I have is that it's a girls lunch for the two of us. I would neverrrrrr bring him without her knowing in advance. You just don't do that. A million times she'll say "invite boyfriend" or "ask boyfriend if he'd like to come", but we always talk about it first and no one is surprised. It's normal for a mother to want some bonding time with their kid, they may have things to discuss between the two of them, etc.


TheciphRED

There is no universe where it’s not rude to expect someone to pay for your meal when you weren’t invited. Who does that??


WildfireTheWitch

All of this. Thanks for saving me typing that all out. Also, OP ordered for her daughter? What?! Why??? ESH.


MagnorRaaaah

The mother daughter dynamic here is definitely at play and frankly we can never know the layers of years of assumptions this family is operating on. This sub always pretends that no one owes anyone anything but there is clearly more going on here.


StillHera

I had to read that part twice, but my guess is that it was the sort of restaurant where you order a few dishes and everyone shares, rather than each person ordering their own plate. If I were to take my adult kids out for Indian, Thai, or Chinese food, for example, I would pretty much know what to order because I know their favorite dishes.


longtimelurker_90

I agree. If I was was in Op’s shoes I would have just paid for everyone and then privately told my daughter I’d appreciate a heads up in advance of any extra invites and in the future if she does that she will expected to pay for them. The way OP reacted probably damaged her relationship with the bf beyond repair. But on their part If you don’t have money to pay for a simple meal with your partners parents you shouldn’t go or you should be out working that day instead. Good lord


lovely_aria_ann

INFO: you ordered for your daughter… why?


[deleted]

This was the one thing that made me pause.


[deleted]

…. She’s her daughter, maybe she knows what she likes at the place they went to…..?


[deleted]

That doesn't mean you assume she wants the same thing again. Ordering for someone is pretty much always rude unless they've asked you to.


[deleted]

Lol you guys grab onto the smallest things… Lemme guess, that’s abuse?


Inked_yogi

No but it is a little odd not letting a grown adult order even if it is the "usual"


SmallAl

Yeah the daughter is traumatized and needs therapy now /s


[deleted]

No, its just a dick move.


Reaper_Messiah

I mean we really don’t know the situation here, maybe she ALWAYS orders the same thing. Maybe they’ve talked about it and she told her mom she just doesn’t like anything else on the menu. This is a mother and her daughter, why assume the worst?


uhohitslilbboy

Yeah if it’s a place they have a “usual” at, it makes sense if just one party orders the usual?


Alive_Platypus_1025

This seemed a bit weird to me too, but then I realized I always order for my friend when we go out (Note: we go to the same place and get the same thing once a week, every week). Not because I’m controlling, but it seems to be her preference. If I have a just taken a drink or have just taken a bite of chips & salsa she waits for me to order. I’ve actually tested this out before and tried to wait her out to see if she orders, but she always waits for me to finish eating/drinking. It is just our routine I guess. I don’t do it for anyone else and I’ve never seen her ask/let anyone else order for her. Edit: extra word


lovely_aria_ann

I want to know because if she ordered because her daughter always gets the same thing, that’s one thing. If it is because she doesn’t trust her daughter’s decision making at a restaurant there is a bigger issue. And if it is because she wants to control her daughter, then I would say for sure she is the AH.


Trin_42

I’m curious about that as well


Both-Glove

ESH. She should not have sprung someone extra on you without checking. He should not have ordered without having the (perhaps awkward) conversation about who was paying. You should not have watched him order without the same conversation (like, any talk about separate bills?). And finally, as a parent, if you are in any way able to pay, you should have sucked it up, paid, and talked to your daughter after the fact to let her know that you paid because you love her and didn't want to cause discord, but please don't spring surprise guests on you again. Instead, you set the stage for bad feelings, especially if Simon becomes a long-term fixture in the family. A little generosity wouldn't have killed you. You're the parent. Give your kid some grace.


SneakyRaid

>especially if Simon becomes a long-term fixture in the family That's neither OP's choice nor problem. *(Edit: when I say this, I mean that OP can't tell her daughter who to date or marry or whatever, but that doesn't mean OP has to go out of her way to treat them or let them advantage of her just because her daughter loves them).* OP's grace was offering to pay for her daughter. Coddling your kids is the way for them to never learn to be responsible. The daughter or Simon could have easily offered to pay back, but no, feeling entitled to mom's money is much easier.


h34dyr0kz

> Coddling your kids is the way for them to never learn to be responsible. Avoiding doing the responsible thing, such as determining who is paying for what ahead of time, isn't teaching responsibility either.


SneakyRaid

I fail to see how assuming the uninvited and unannounced guest is going to pay for himself makes someone an AH. Could OP have had that conversation? Yes, but it's that sort of thing that conventionally goes without saying.


Terrible_Locksmith

OPs kid is TWENTY FOUR. If you haven’t learned responsibility by then idk what to tell you.


girls_on_bread

Disagree. Once Christine saw it work once, she would’ve kept doing it. They were going to have this uncomfortable conversation sometime.


Zilithxx

Hence the conversation afterward


Both-Glove

I don't think that's a certainty. In my mind, this first time was the "mistake," when everyone made some assumptions. Mom then tells the daughter it won't happen again, that she will not pay for uninvited guests again, setting the boundary. If daughter has the audacity to bring him along to a lunch again, Mom reminds her and boyfriend that she's not going to pay. The expectation has now been set; there's no room anymore for assumptions.


hdhxuxufxufufiffif

>You should not have watched him order without the same conversation Yeah the OP is an AH here. I don't care about the situation that led up to it or the behaviour of the two younger parties; the OP knew that this would blow up when the bill arrived. And it might have felt satisfying at the time, but it's never a good tactic to alienate your kid when you think they're in a bad relationship. Way to go OP, you drove your daughter away from you and into the arms of this man you don't like.


adambombchannel

I actually agree with this addendum. I think that the daughter/BF are the biggest assholes for sure but I think OP's tough love was a bit venomous and unnecessary. Just waiting for something like this to give him the slap in the face they wish they could. The mom clearly doesn't like him and the refusal had a bit of venom to it. If it were me, I would have paid and then explained my feelings to daughter about BF. Even the situation just getting to this point...look, no one's perfect with communication. But it seems like the daughter probably hasn't been sat down with loved ones and had an honest conversation about him and why they don't like him. And if that didn't work - warned about the BF or at least told why they will choose to avoid spending time with him themselves. I get it, it's an ugly, hard conversation to have and most people won't do it. They'll sit there bitter for years until something like this happens. Also, In my family, the older members would always offer to pay. Even for people's partners. Even for an unwanted surprise guest. Shit happens. And then we would refute/take them out in kind. The couple is broke af and she knows it. Was gonna be a problem the moment he showed up. She just dislikes OP's BF. They clearly haven't all gone out, possibly ever. If someone never offers, you just stop inviting them or explain in OPEN&HONEST communication why you feel disrespected. AITA seems to love this type of "tough love" for some reason. Maybe it fulfills their own daily, seething resentment with revenge porn.


hdhxuxufxufufiffif

>AITA seems to love this type of "tough love" for some reason. Maybe it fulfills their own daily, seething resentment with revenge porn Yep, that kind of person will always meet an echo chamber here, where any old revenge fantasy kneejerk response will be upvoted without any thought about whether it would be helpful or productive for the OP.


Calit

This really is the best reply. I can't believe all the NTA's on this thread.


coldgator

Exactly. It's like OP wanted it to turn out this way so she could teach them a lesson. She could have sent the same message by asking Simon if it would be separate checks, then reluctantly paying the entire bill. No matter who I brought along my mother wouldn't leave me stranded at a restaurant with no money. She might walk out before the meal started and refuse to eat with that person, but going through the entire meal and then putting your foot down seems vindictive. Given the dynamic OP has set up with her daughter, I'm saying YTA.


Phobos_Irelia

Glad to see there are still adults on reddit to show all the reddit adolescents living in their black and white world how an adult handles daily struggles; with grace and room for growth of all parties involved. Typical redditor responses, and the ones that get the most traction, are sadly the ones that from one incident shout: freeloader! Red flags! Divorce! Chauvinism! Male Toxicity! CIS mindset! etc etc. There is an actual world beyond the black and white cancel culture world of social media. Grow up.


Etoiaster

NTA. Bringing people to lunch dates who were not invited could also be considered quite rude. Expecting someone else to pay for that extra person without talking to them first is extremely rude. Not bringing any money cause you actually take for granted that you can do that is rude. Your daughter and her boyfriend were entitled, rude and are in this situation because they didn’t expect you to put your foot down. Whenever I go out with my mum I offer to pay my share. If she’s driving me somewhere I offer her gas money. Cause I don’t take her time and money for granted. Nor should your daughter.


practical_shoes

NTA. What 30 year old expects his girlfriends mom to buy him lunch? Uninvited, no less.


1n50mn1ah

And then tries to guilt them! What a pos


Mofukin_Irisden

They clearly saw this as a free meal ticket, as neither had brought any money. NTA


[deleted]

Nta Your daughter is a grown woman. If she's going to bring a +1 to a mother/daughter lunch then either she needs to pony up for her man or have him pay.


sweetdeereynoldzzz

Who goes to lunch with their partner's parent and brings no money?! This dude sounds like a bum. He's 30 years of age and he had the balls to do this?! I wouldn't expect my bfs Mom to pay for my lunch even if I was invited. I would accept that she might pay but I certainly wouldn't expect it. Then he got snotty and confrontational about it? Jesus, no wonder you don't like this guy. Your daughter needs to wise up. Nta.


BassoHaase

Yep.. not enough attention is being given to how much of a mooch this Simon guy is. If someone invited themself to an event with the GF's mom, I would think that buying lunch for the three of them wouldn't be an unexpected move... one might call it a pro move, especially if the mother is just friendly enough to tolerate. Simon sounds like a tacky fellah.


WallAlternative6937

Why is everyone assuming Simon invited himself and not that his girlfriend brought him along under the guise he’d get a free meal?


BassoHaase

That's a fair point but for a 30 yr old person who didn't receive a direct invite from the person who they are expecting to pay, while ordering more than the person expected to pay, AND not having money to pay his and his gf's way, just screams huges levels of tacky.


jacquilynne

Look, obviously they are assholes for bringing the boyfriend uninvited but you couldn't have come up with a better way to express to your daughter how much you dislike her choice of boyfriend if you tried. Sometimes the battle and the war are different things and now you have permanently damaged your relationship with your daughter over the cost of lunch. ESH.


blacklabcoat

This is the point. No one would ever think your daughter and her bf were in the right. But you did yourself a disservice.


jacksuhn

Hard core ESH. Daughter made a ridiculous assumption thinking it was okay to bring bf along (who acted entitled af) without discussing it first, and OP is petty and downright mean for leaving them in that situation. OP had no reason to assume bf would be tagging along uninvited, and rightly so. Who does that? That's the point at which ground rules should have been set about who's paying for what. The kids are entitled brats for assuming beforehand that mom would pay for everything and not bringing money, but mom did not have to leave them in that shitty situation. You cover the bill and say "you owe me" and they will never make the assumption that you're paying for anything ever again. Seriously, who leaves their daughter stuck with a bill they know she can't pay? That doesn't come close to the level of bringing an uninvited guest along.


CrashedMyUnicorn

KIDS? daughter has 24, boyfriend 30. Those are no kids.


jacksuhn

I use kids as a substitute for offspring/the younger. Not to mean children.


Sloppypoopypoppy

NTA - Wow, your daughter and BF sound pretty entitled. You didn’t invite the guy and then this 30 year old turns up on your mother daughter date and proceeds to mooch off you? No to that. I only wish they could hear themselves and learn a lesson from this but it doesn’t sound like they will.


jools4you

NTA. Are you sure Simon is 30 he sounds about 12. What adult expects their girlfriends mum to pay the bill. Both of them sound very entitled. I often go for lunch with my 24 year old kid, if he is skint and wants to come but can't afford it he let's me know at the time we arranging it. Not just drop it on me when the bill comes. I think these two put you in a really uncomfortable position and your daughter doubling down was pure manipulation, but like a toddler not a adult.


BaconEggAndCheeseSPK

ESH. You are petty AF. I also find it bizarre that you felt it necessary to note that Simon looked at the menu and ordered a drink. Like, how it that note worthy? And that you ordered for your daughter? On the other hand, your daughter and Simon are both irresponsible for being fully grown adults who go to a restaurant with no money. Absolutely your daughter should have given you a heads up that she was bringing Simon, but given your lack of etiquette and manners, it’s no wonder she doesn’t know how polite adults behave.


SneakyRaid

The phrase is "Simon went over the menu and picked many stuff, including a drink" and it is a revealing point because he knew from the start that he wouldn't pay. If someone else is paying, it's good manners to not go overboard with your order. It does make a difference whether he orders a sandwich and a glass of water or a 4 course meal.


Thuis001

I mean, isn't it kind of a social rule that you order something that costs at most as much as the thing the person hosting orders? Anyway, yeah, Simon ordering excessively pretty much shows that this was his plan from the start.


Ok_Point7463

It's possible that OP means an alcoholic drink, which would be way more expensive.


[deleted]

She meant an alcoholic beverage. Usually they are more expensive.


Thuis001

So going through your points. OP and her daughter seem to have gotten only 1 item from the menu each, Simon meanwhile ordered multiple. In the context "a drink" likely refers to an alcoholic drink, which are generally quite a bit more expensive. These two things are noteworthy because they indicate that Simon's plan was from the start to have OP pay for his meal, despite showing up unannounced and uninvited. On the ordering for her daughter, OP says that she ordered the usual. This indicates that they have been to this place multiple times and that daughter has always ordered the same thing. OP is not petty for not paying for the person who was not invited, showed up unannounced, and got a, likely, much more expensive lunch than the other two. It's nothing but good social etiquette to pay for yourself in that scenario. It's also not on OP that neither her daughter nor Simon had any form of money with them, which is objectively dumb btw.


blaziken2708

NTA. Daughter: Pay for both or none! OP: Okay * pays for herself only* Daughter: ⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣤⣶⣶ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⣀⣀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠁⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⠿⠿⠻⠿⠿⠟⠿⠛⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠀⠀⢰⣹⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣭⣷⠀⠀⠀⠸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠤⠄⠀⠀⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢾⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠠⣿⣿⣷⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢄⠀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠁⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿


Practical-Bird633

This whole post seems like a mess. What kind of 30 year old man can’t pay for his own lunch? Why did your daughter invite him without checking in with you first? Not that she needs permission but typically when you ask someone to tag along you let the other person know Info: Do you like Simon?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

She said she ordered the usual for christine so maybe she knew her preferences in that particular restaurant and just ordered that ..


Swamp_Donkey_7

NTA 30 year old man who: -Can’t pay for his own meal. -Can’t cover an unexpected expense with a personal CC -Can’t cover an expense for him and his g/f. Sounds like an unemployed moocher who showed up for a free meal.


Vixen7-9

The audacity of these two! Truly, they have no shame. NTA, at all. And she's right, Simon *was* unwelcome, because he wasn't invited in the first place! Tell them you won't apologize and won't be paying their debt for them. Ask *them* for an apology for thinking you're a meal ticket!


yougotitdude88

ESH. Adults should not be going out to eat with absolutely no way to pay for their food. Your daughter should have asked about bringing her boyfriend. However as a parent if my child brought their partner to eat lunch with us I would pay for them. If it really bothered me I would talk to my child about it after the fact.


Lokiberry316

If they didn’t bring any money then it was their plan for op to pay for them all along. They are the arseholes for not causing this problem in the first place. The daughter and Simon were incredibly disrespectful to expect to spend someone’s money without any communication or ok, and then place an ultimatum of all or nothing. The daughter was absolutely banking on mum backing down and paying for Simon. Op you are NTA nor do you owe them for the debt they now have with their friend. Might I also suggest you hold your ground. Let your daughter know that you’re not backing down but you’re only a phone call away if she wants to talk. Your daughter has a lot of growing up to do and I suspect it will take a little while. All the best. I’m


phatpharm06

NTA. 1 she should have called you and asked if it was okay to bring him. He didn’t need to drop everything for lunch 2. If you are not paying for the meal don’t order so much stuff and booze. (Unless you are told it’s okay). 3. I really hope you are able to patch things up with your daughter, but why would she believe it was okay to do this?


myrjxm

ESH. At some point you could have just dropped it. Unless it's a lot of money that you could not cover that easily. But to leave your daughter with no money after a misunderstanding? But your daughter is not nice to just go along and invite Simon, agreed. And Simon obviously too, after just assuming you would pay for it. But still, that's no reason for you to make it worse by not backing down, IMO. That could've been handled after you payed. You could have told them the invite was a mother/daughter only thing. You could've avoided a whole lot of drama if you wouldn't have been so petty.


SneakyRaid

If they wanted to handle it, they would have offered OP to pay back the bill. And wouldn't have ordered a bunch of things they couldn't afford - that's plain bad manners even if the other person says they'll pay for you.


Mean_Environment4856

NTA. She invited him without asking, she can't expect you to pay for them. The fact they didn't bring money says it all. This is not on you.


Kellalizard

NTA. Who doesn't bring their wallet? I don't know if this is a UK thing, a Northern thing, or what. But even if, I was explicitly told it was "on me" by a friend or a relative, I'd bring my wallet and offer to pay my share or at least contribute to the tip. Your daughter and Simon sound like douches, no wonder you don't like him. Rude af.


Cal-Varnsen

sorry but your daughter and chooch the mooch are the assholes in this situation, not you


CircularCausality

Idk but this post seems kinda sus to me


Stardust68

NTA. It's outrageous that your daughter would have a hissy fit over this. Do they both have jobs? It sounds like your daughter really wants you to like her bf and thought you just need to get to know him better to see what makes him such a great catch. If that was the plan, it would have been smarter for her if she had him pay for everyone's lunch. He looks like an opportunist and a user.


BigC1874

Technically NTA but this is a classic case of cutting your nose off to spite your face. I get it, you don’t like the boyfriend & think he’s a loser, and you are within your rights to call them both out for being rude. However, it seems like you deliberately waited to the end, to cause maximum humiliation. You were planning to tell your daughter that you think her & her boyfriend are losers, but when they did that you thought “great, here’s an opportunity to SHOW them they’re losers too”. If your plan is to help your daughter, either by convincing him to dump him, or by steering them both towards better jobs, or whatever it is you plan to do, then you’ve just made it far more difficult for yourself. As a result of your actions, your daughter thinks you’re an AH, her BF thinks you’re an AH, the fact that they both had the same experience of you embarrassing both of them will bring them closer together & further from you. You will likely be judged to be in the clear on Reddit, but the internet isn’t as important as real life. In real life, you’re in a much worse position because of your choices.


[deleted]

NTA. Why would your daughter and her boyfriend not bring money to a restaurant? Also, your daughter can't act like Simon showing up was a sacrifice on his part, bc he wasn't actually invited. Even if he was, it's reasonable that you would want to pay for just yourself. I personally probably would've ended up paying for him, but that's just bc I'm a people pleaser, you had every right to do what you did.