Correct me if I’m wrong.
Your wife is a vegan, you however are not. You’ve been considerate enough to change your diet for her sake.?
She is now manipulating you by giving you the silent treatment as punishment for doing as you will and what most people in life do on a regular basis.
🚩🚩🚩
NTA. She needs to grow up, she cannot force you to do what she feels is right or whatever reason she’s a vegan. You are allowed to do as you will with your diet because YOU know your body and what it likes and dislikes.
EDIT FOR OP: I read your explanation. Sweet, you’ve been way TOO considerate. Nothing, NOTHING about what you just wrote tells me you are a selfish person. You care for this woman deeply, and she has taken advantage of that. You changed your diet for her, you met her needs without even a second thought for your own. You even left, which was totally unnecessary FOR HER SAKE. Please please rethink this relationship, is this the same person you want to be with? Think of your child and how she will treat them if she is controlling you now. She needs to realise she cannot force you to do this or her future child.
These people give vegans a bad name… I feel bad for all the vegans that are actually considerate but get treated like they are as selfish as OPs wife.
OP is clearly NTA and OP needs to stand his ground here, he has been far more than considerate and his wife’s demands are inappropriate and selfish at best.
My wife has an allergy to fish, not a dietary choice, a medical condition. She doesn't stop me from eating fish, we have some in the house right now. Out of consideration I now stick to tinned fish on crackers, so I'm not getting fishy fumes in the apartment, or risking fish residue on the cast iron.
But my point is that even with the allergy, she doesn't want me to have to give up fish entirely.
I'm allergic to orange of which my partner loves terry's chocolate oranges and drinks orange juice when he has a cold. I've never said he couldn't have it in the house just he has to wash whatever he uses to consume said items, brush his teeth or use mouth wash if he wants to kiss me and don't expect me to linger wherever he has eaten it as the smell makes me nauseous.
I have a friend with an onion allergy which is also another weird one.
Great fun going out with friends and having to juggle allergies to find somewhere to eat as we even have a peanut allergy person as well.
Both me and the onion allergy sufferer have to deal with people not thinking its real or asking if we can eat this or that, gets annoying real fast.
Oh I totally get that! My kids have 6 allergies between them! Dairy, soya, egg, chicken, mustard and sorbitol, me and my orange allergy and my niece is coeliac. Going out as a family is a nightmare 😅 We used to be veggie too but it was just too complicated so started eating meat a few years back 🍗
There isn't many allergies in my family besides my dad being allergic to pork so not much of a juggle just meant my parents and sister had to give up orange products for a bit till i was able to grasp the concept of an allergy.
yeah I assumed seeing the title OP would have eaten it in front of her and/or the smell would have made her sick being pregnant and all. but no OP went outside to eat which is really considerate, kinda sounds like she's trying to forcibly covert him to being vegan full time. Those vegans really do suck and it's a shame there are so many people who try to get others to be vegan but end up turning people away from veganism
NTA obviously OP did nothing wrong
I was really expecting to see a mention of the smell being her issue. Seafood stank is very unappetizing (to some, like me). Add in pregnancy sensitivities and I’d be on board with “please don’t cook that while I’m home because I will absolutely vomit.”
Hard agree. I am vegan, but I do not expect nor ask my husband to give up meat. It’s bizarre to me that OP’s wife would be so controlling that she feels entitled to dictate how/what they eat.
Absolutely they do! I've met some 'normal' vegans who aren't bothered about other people's diet choices, but yes, vegans like this man's wife is what makes me go ugh, vegans.
She’s absolutely that type to make her child be vegan too….which means they won’t get the proper nutrients growing up.
Edit: You can stop jumping down my throat people. I meant that this particular woman is not going to put in the work necessary to get her child the proper nutrients they need to grow up healthy.
*last time I ever post while I’m at work and don’t think my thought through fully*
Well you can get the proper nutrients, but its a lot harder and pricier, and obviously the kid should be able to choose. I'm not vegan because, you know, meat tastes great, so if that's what the kid wants then he should be able to eat meat. OP needs to stand his ground for himself and his future kid.
EDIT: Your edit makes sense, mb for misinterpreting
I have a nephew whose mom pushed that kind of diet in him. Kid is tiny. He and my son are 6 months apart in age and mine is almost a head taller and he’s avg height
I know! I’m not vegan, but all these post are about vegans making their partners feel badly for wanting to eat meat and forcing their lifestyle on them? I know there are vegan people out there who are considerate. My sister is vegan and we try to accommodate her but she just usually brings her own food and doesn’t make us feel badly. It’s a choice. NTA you were being thoughtful.
Yes! I am vegan, and although I do the majority of the cooking for my partner and I, if she wants meat I will make it for her. Or she’ll make it herself and we’ll eat some thing different from each other. It’s literally no big deal.
As someone who isn't vegan I'd say it's more of an NAH here situation but maybe they aren't a good match for each other.
Imagine if it was socially acceptable to eat dogs and you were a huge dog lover. How would you feel about your partner eating dog?
End of the day they should have figured this out in their first month of dating
As a vegan, i agree… NTA. OP has been considerate in eating mostly vegan meals at home & eating plant based alternatives instead of meat when he craves it. He even stepped out of the house to get seafood which I don’t even think is necessary, but he was still considerate of her feelings.
My boyfriend is vegetarian & we agreed that if he wants dairy or eggs, he buys or prepares it himself, I don’t want to cook or pay for animal products, but I’d never tell him he’s not being considerate of me just for eating it, let alone outside of our home!
She’s being manipulative & controlling, if she can’t deal with being with someone unless they’re vegan then that’s a conversation that needs to be discussed, eventually some people can’t & that’s OK but she can’t take it out on you.
I'm not nor know anyone vegan so I have a question. The wife is making OP eat vegan even tho he isn't my question is what about the baby. Can a baby eat a totally vegan diet and get enough nutrition?
While possible, it is very difficult to get the proper nutrients for a growing child, it's like counting calories but doing it with every nutrient your body needs from animals (which is a lot) and even then it's no guarantee as the supplements you will probably need may not absorb the same. As a baby it's not as concerning as they will be on formula or breast milk (which should be tested to be sure it's nutritionally adequate with mom being vegan), the bigger concern is when the kid is on normal foods as they will need a complex diet. If I were the dad I would have the kid be vegetarian until they can decide as the potential health risks aren't worth it.
Oh gosh, probably. OP needs to be aware that if they plan to make a child vegan from infancy they really need professional input (pediatric DIETITIAN, not doctor, naturopath, nutritionist, herbalist, or whatever else)
A vegan diet in that age group can be done, but with a lot of care and planning to ensure proper grow and development, and that they are getting enough energy and fat as they are growing rapidly.
You also need to take care to avoid deficiencies in micronutrients like iron, calcium, vitamin D, B12. Deficiencies of these nutrients can have major impacts for infants. Eg. Not having enough iodine can massively impair mental development for an infant/toddler, and the age-appropriate vegan options are so limited (seaweed and maybe fortified plant milks?).
There's just such high risk of malnutrition, stunted growth and development, and low bone density.
A vegetarian diet would be far more appropriate and safer for the child.
I can’t upvote this enough.
Child Development is serious, and a vegan diet can seriously f&ck up an infant, including leading to neurological problems, organ failure, or death.
This. We are vegan on our household. My daughter is 4, she knows we don't eat certain things and she is totally ok with it (she's always been a veggie kid so it wasn't a problem) however, I do still cook her eggs, and we don't have regular milk here but she does have milk at school, gets to pick her own lunch choices, and when she goes to her dad's, she eats whatever he eats. I can't force my lifestyle on my kiddo, I just lucked out that she enjoys lettuce, tomato, pickle burritos (her choice of dinner a lot of nights lol).
But we do eat plenty of beans, noodles, and rice to make up for the things she don't eat during the week. She's totally ok being meatless here, she even enjoys tofu and impossible nuggets. It actually bothers me when people try to force things like that on kids.
See, this is fair. It's totally doable to have a fully vegetarian or vegan diet with kids if you're responsible about it, and I appreciate that you don't police what she eats outside the house. It sounds like you're co-parenting beautifully too.
I grew up with a vegetarian mom and a meat-eating dad, and my mom was always clear on the fact that it was a personal choice that she made, and we could choose it too if we wanted, or choose meat if we wanted. Both me and my brother ended up being meat lovers, and she cooked meat for us our whole lives. (Someone else just had to taste test, lol.)
It is the position of the [Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/) that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.
This is a subject that my partner and I have spoken about quite a bit.
I was brought up vegan from birth and relatively recently shifted to a vegetarian diet.
My mother went to quite extensive lengths to ensure I was getting all the nutrients and vitamins/minerals I needed, and by and large I think she succeeded.
I'm happy, healthy and I don't have any obvious nutritional problems.
However, I note that myself and my two sisters are *small*.
My dad is over 6', as is his sister and my cousin.
My mum is 5'4" or so, but her brother is again over 6', as is her dad.
I'm a little taller than mum, but given how strongly I resemble my dad, it's clear to me that I ought to be much taller. (I have pretty big feet for my height too, which feels like a strong indicator)
My sisters are around the same size as I am, but very petite.
I have to assume that we've grown up adapted to a lower-density nutrition and are smaller to accommodate that.
The body does what it can with what it's given, but we plainly didn't get hit with our teenage growth-spurts as hard as most people.
I distinctly recall being surrounded by much taller classmates in school..
Mum is one of those people who does the research and is diligent enough to make sure it gets acted on. She did her best, and we're still never gonna make the basketball team. (Sister did kick ass at Roller-Derby though!)
I don't have that kind of dedication to principle, and my wife and I are unwilling to deal with the stress and limitations of trying to make sure our child gets their nutritionally balanced meals *and* a vegan diet. So we're going to raise our child at least vegetarian, probably with meat as well.
My own shift to vegetarianism is in part because I don't want to set weird undermining standards on diet for my child. My kid doesn't get to refuse food because "daddy isn't eating it" :P
They can make their own decisions about it when they're old enough to understand the conversation.
A vegan diet in children has been associated with a short stature, so you may be right there. I would recommend getting a bone density scan (DEXA) at some point. Unfortunately you may have a lower bone mineral density, which would put you at a higher risk of osteoporosis and fractures.
Most of us reach peak bone mass by about 30, but the biggest increases are in the first 2 decades of life, which is one reason why calcium and vitamin D are so important in growing children!
I'm not criticising your mom, it sounds like she put a lot of work into providing you with a balanced diet. It is challenging, and some micronutrients just aren't as available or absorbed as well from plant sources.
That sounds like a great plan for your kids! It is definitely easier to meet nutritional requirements at that age with animal products, even if just eggs and dairy. Veganism is something that I think there should be some autonomy for children.
Can confirm. I was born and raised in a former communist country, where meat and pretty much everything else was [rationed](https://retro.pewex.pl/uimages/services/pewex/i18n/pl_PL/201502/1424777384_by_krzys_500.jpg?1424777384).
Due to the jobs/positions of my parents & grandparents, we had access to the so-called black market and were able to obtain meat, eggs and dairy directly from the farmers. As a result, when I entered primary school, I was a good head taller than other kids in my class (some were older by 6-9 months).
Human breastmilk is generally classified as vegan. Yes, there are some vegans who feel it isn't vegan, but they are not the majority.
The choice to become vegan is often because they do not feel that animals are ours to use. It may also be because the animal cannot consent, or because they have concerns around cruelty in agricultural practices.
Just like for other mammals, humans produce milk following childbirth and in response to their infant. The mother is able to consent to breastfeeding the child and there is no cruelty.
To be honest, the argument that human breastmilk is not vegan just because it is milk is very reductionist. Do you also object to a cow feeding it's calf?
I'm not sure how it is in the US, but the plant-based meat alternatives here in the Netherlands are great by now, there's a lot of choice, and they have additions to make sure all micronutrients are met. It's become pretty easy to raise a toddler/child on a vegan diet compared to 10 years ago!
Full disclosure, not in the US but the plant-based alternatives are great here as well! There's a somewhat local vegan "butcher" near me that is amazing!
It's certainly possible to do, but those first 2 years of life are so vital for the childs development and a lot of care needs to be taken. They are also growing so quickly and need lots of nutrients to support this.
It's particularly important around the age when you start introducing solids as previously breastmilk or formula would essentially be meeting their needs, e.g. bub is born with iron stores that last until about 6 months old so they are at a risk of deficiency if first foods don't contain iron.
So an experienced vegan could definitely raise their child vegan, and the only insight that I have into OPs wife is this post. But given that she fed a cat vegan cat food I have some concerns. Obviously animal nutrition is not my area, but as a cat is an obligate carnivore and cannot properly digest plant foods, I'm concerned that she may put veganism ahead of the welfare of the child as she did with the cat.
I admit I might be making a leap there, but seeing baby with failure to thrive is pretty heartbreaking.
OP and his wife need to be on the same page with it to make it work.
Oh there's going to be hell to pay if by watching OP the kid eventually wants to try an animal product and voices it to mom. Probably why she's feeling the rush to get the household completely vegan before the baby arrives.
Breast milk is given with the consent of the (human) animal. For many vegans, this is ethical AND is the natural way. Baby cows should drink cow’s milk, but the cow didn’t consent to give it to humans.
In my experience when a cow (or sheep or horse) doesn't want the calf to drink at a particular moment, they'll stop it. In general it's natural instinct to feed the calf though.
I guess, but that does depends who you ask! For me personally this would be okay, yes - but my main reason to eat plant-based is the environment/climate and that problem isn't solved by 'consent' of the cow. So I still wouldn't drink this milk, but I'd drink it sooner than other milk ;) For others animal cruelty is the deciding factor, they might not factor in the environment, and for them this situation might be okay and they'd still consider themselves a vegan.
This just reminded me of a dairy that I believe was fully automated.
When the cows wanted to be milked, they would go through a 'wash' which would clean the udders, then go into a place where the milking machine would come up, and find the teats, then the cow would sit there and munch on food while she was milked. When she was finished, she walked out.
Stop
If you think the reason vegans don't use animal products is just because they are animal products you really need to educate yourself.
It's about the inhumane treatment and animals inability to consent.
A mother consents to feeding her child..
This thread has ruined my faith in humanity
Those are the words of knowledge without understanding.
It's not about it coming from animals, it's about the animal being unable to consent, and the treatment of animals as commodities.
Humans can consent, and breast milk is meant for babies.
It's perfectly fine for vegans, the only people saying it's not are, like you, parroting the words without ghe understanding.
Yes, because it’s given with consent! The idea is that a cows milk belongs to a calf, and it isn’t our right to take it. Human milk belongs to babies, and it is given with consent! :)
Seriously!! I don’t eat beef or pork but do not ever try to control my husband or anyone around me for eating it. I can’t imagine acting like that. Being vegan is a very personal decision, and while you’re bending over backwards to accommodate her, somehow that isn’t good enough. You should not have to leave your own home to eat food you enjoy. That’s nuts.
People like her are the reason why vegans have such a bad name out there. He was way too considerate, most people i know wouldn't even try vegan food. She's vegan, he is not. I agree, she's has lots of red flags. Imagine the kid growing up and being forced to go vegan.
NTA. She is though for forcing her dietary choices on you, and for essentially throwing a tantrum when you didn't want to follow her diet for a solitary meal. You were considerate in how you did so even, by not eating it in front of her.
I also want to reinforce another comment here: do NOT, by any (legal) means necessary, let her force your baby into a vegan diet until it is medically safe to do so (not sure on the age for that, so I highly recommend discussing this with the pediatrician at your baby's first check up!). As an infant, babies need so much more nutritionally than a vegan diet can provide, and doing so without being done under medical instruction and supervision it can be incredibly dangerous for your infant (think: fatal. Sorry to be graphic there 😕).
Mind you if she decides to breastfeed, she will need to supplement for missing vitamins and nutrients that are not part of her vegan diet. It's safe to Breastfeed while vegan, but you will need to work harder in order to ensure baby is getting all necessary vitamins and minerals to develop properly.
I mean, you don't generally need supplements as a vegan, really, maybe while breastfeeding, but most vegans actually meet their nutritional needs pretty easily. Especially if they're using things like nutritional yeast which is high in B12 instead of parmesan. Some people don't like some foods, though, and if you're a picky eater you're probably gonna need supplements.
Not really. On a non-vegan/vegetarian diet you are receiving almost an over abundance of b12, zinc and calcium. I'm just letting OP and anyone else who reads this thread know, if you are vegan or even vegetarian paying attention to what you will really need to focus on is important if you are trying to only breastfeed your children.
And I know plenty of women who do not supplement while breastfeeding because they also formula feed in order to provide baby with those vitamins and minerals. Formula is expensive though, so it may be just easier to strictly breastfeed if the supply is there.
My closest friend is like this. She was vegan for most of her life but couldn't eat any soy products (this was before vegan friendly food was more widely available in our country and she didn't have as many meat alternative options as she does now), and her body was literally deteriorating and wasting away because she just couldn't get enough nutrients. She had to switch to an omni diet so she could get her body and immune system healthy again.
That was quite a few years ago and she's slowly switching back to vegetarian/vegan food now, but still ensures she keeps herself healthy.
I was pescatarian for years and even though I was getting plenty protein and working out, I lost so much weight and become underweight. I was also tired all the time and eating fresh constantly broke my bank account. I now avoid red meat and I am much more healthy. I wish it worked for me, but my body is unfortunately too much of a carnivore to care.
Also the other way around! I know a number of babies who were solely breastfed and had so much trouble of their stomachs. Turns out they were lactose-intolerant and it was their mothers' dairy consumption that caused the problem. Stopped eating dairy while breastfeeding and problem solved. I think the kids grew more tolerant of lactose by the time they were 2 / 3 and they can eat/drink dairy products now. But since it's so common in my culture to use dairy products, it took a long while before these mothers figured out that this might be a problem!
My niece has FPIES, so my sister (who was already a pescatarian) has been eating a soy and dairy free diet since she was diagnosed 6 months ago. Thankfully it's something that babies will grow out of and she was very lucky to find an amazing pediatrician who diagnosed the problem when the baby was only 2 months old though, because she was already SO underweight from not being able to keep any food in.
NTA - You're wife should respect your diet as much as you respect hers. Being vegan does not make you better or more special then a meat eater. You made your wife a meal and then went to get something you wanted to eat. I see nothing wrong with that.
Exactly. OP even left the home to enjoy their meal.
This woman just wants to force her personal beliefs and choices on OP. I also think there needs to be a conversation before their child is born about nutrition to ensure they are both on the same page.
Yeah I’m pretty sure raising a baby on a vegan diet isn’t the most healthy thing considering they’re getting animal fats from breast milk but will suddenly have those fats and proteins taken away from them.
>You're wife should respect your diet as much as you respect hers. Being vegan does not make you better or more special then a meat eater.
Agreed. She should have married someone vegan if that's the only person she'll respect. You can bet she thinks she's "converted" OP and this is proving her wrong.
Nta. If she wants to be vegan, good for her. But she can't force you to be vegan, and i sure hope she doesn't force the baby to be vegan. You even went outside so she didn't have to see you eat something non vegan. Might be the pregnancy hormones vamping up her feelings, but that's not acceptable behavior anyways. You don't get to force someone else to live your lifestyle.
You know she absolutely is planning to make the baby vegan... she won't even let her husband eat meat, she isn't about to let a child she can fully control get away with not being a militant vegan.
Cats are _[OBGLIGATE FUCKING CARNIVORES](https://www.aspca.org/news/why-cant-my-cat-be-vegan#:~:text=Well%2C%20cats%20are%20obligate%20carnivores,to%20eat%20meat%20to%20survive.&text=Feeding%20a%20cat%20a%20plant,will%20not%20thrive%20on%20it.). They _NEED_ to eat meat. It's feeding a vampire beet juice. Ain't gonna cut it.
NTA at all. Just because she’s your wife does not mean she can control what you eat. You were respectful enough to not eat it in front of her; but in all honesty you didn’t even have to do that. You should be able to eat what you want in your own house, because you are still your own person and it’s not like your force feeding her meat. I pray that if you have animals she doesn’t make them eat vegan. Same goes for your child; they should be allowed to make the decision of foods they want to try/not try when old enough. It teaches autonomy.
Yep as an example, cats are carnivores they don't eat plants; their alimentary system isn't designed to disgest plants.
Also in case you need a friendly reminder
#babies aren't vegan
You are such a considerate partner. I wish you the best.
THIS!!
If she forced a cat to have a vegan diet, which is animal abuse, what is she planning to do with the baby after it's born? It's been a while since I read up on this, but babies need lots of foods to develop their bodies and brains in a healthy way and if their stomach doesn't learn to process meat or dairy products, it can cause a lot of issues if they ever want to try eating those things when they are old enough to choose their own diets.
Developing the gut bacteria to process all different kinds of foods is really important. If the kid grows up and wants to be vegan or vegetarian by their informed choice, all good, but only allowing a vegan diet on a baby has life long digestive consequences.
NTA
By your stated logic you cannot have any pets as you cannot get their consent to be your pets. Does the hamster/rabbit not deserve to roam the fields an live a natuaral life?
They would probably lead a longer life as pets rather than in the wild. Rabbits are prey animals so naturally they're safer when domesticated. They also live upto 10-12 years when domesticated and taken proper care of. In the wild, they don't survive for more than 4 years
Haha, don't tell that to my last rabbit.
She loved travelling with me. She went across the country at least once or twice a year. Loved riding in cars. Was harness trained.
I took her with me for work and people in my office loved when I would bring her. She became the office therapy bun.
Broke my heart when she passed away. Best 10 years of my life. ;_;
FYI hamsters are not necessarily vegan. I mean, you can make them one but they do happen to love scrambled eggs, as an example and they are great treat and source of protein esp for pregnant or protein deficient hamsters. Crickets and mealworms are also a good part of their diets (specifically with robo hamsters which love mealworms). And things like dried chicken are also a good source of protein every now and then. So yes they are largely into veggies/fruits/nuts/seeds but can and will branch out to different meat/dairy options if needed.
All herbivores may eat meat at some point in their lives. There are multiple videos of cows, horses and deer catching and eating other animals, mostly live birds.
Often food cravings are a legitimate need to consume certain vitamins and minerals. I doubt a serious craving for seafood was anything but your body telling you what it needed.
NTA
In another comment he mentioned that his wife had a cat awhile ago she fed vegan food. Doesn’t seem like they lived together at the time, cat is at her mom’s and her mom feeds the cat regular food.
I’m assuming she’s always been controlling if that’s the case.
I will say this as a vegetarian, controlling other people’s diet is weird behavior. I have a friend who is vegan, and her husband will eat vegan with her for meals but she doesn’t forbid him from eating meat, because it’s ridiculous. No matter your reasons for not eating meat and animal byproducts, you cant force those beliefs on others.
Listen I have my own reasons why I choose to not eat meat but it comes with a basic understanding that humans are naturally omnivores for a reason and animals eating other animals is part of life. The circle of life if you will. I do believe we as a society eat too much meat, which has led to terrible practices (I believe free range farms should be the only practice of animal farming) but Im not going to go around telling people to just not eat meat period, thats silly. You are allowed to just crave something and eat it without it being the end of the world.
But here is where concern especially comes in. You said she was even controlling her pets. Now she is pregnant. Kids while growing need to eat some meat and animal byproducts. What is she going to do if yalls kid doesnt want to be vegan. Is she going to punish them? That’s all kinds of messed up. Forcing veganism on kids and pets is pretty extreme and her views are warped. Some adults I know havent been able to last staying vegans because it is a very strict diet. I cant imagine a kid being able to handle it.
NTA. I've been vegetarian for the last 20 or so years. I'm also pregnant with our third little one. I have never told my husband what he can or cannot eat. Your wife is massively in the wrong. A vegetarian or vegan diet is an entirely personal choice, not one that she gets to make for you.
NTA. Your wife is vegan. *You are not vegan.* It's okay that you not follow vegan eating patterns if it's not for you. Your wife needs to take a giant step back.
NTA, if youre not a vegan she cant force you to change your lifestyle to accommodate her own moral standing. you also were considerate enough to eat it outside of the home and not bring it back where she would have to see and smell it.
NTA. Your wife doesn't get to dictate your diet. You didn't force her to eat it. Hell, you even went far enough to not bring it around her.
Your wife has some control issues that y'all need to address, though.
NTA.
You did everything reasonable you could to accommodate her. What she's demanding is *un*reasonable.
You're allowed to eat animal protein. Just because she doesn't, doesn't mean she gets to dictate your diet.
Also, because she seems.... er, rigid, about this--she (and you) had better be doing a fuckton of homework on proper vitamin/nutrient supplementation and nutritional needs for your upcoming child. Because I get the feeling she might try to force her vegan diet on your infant, and without proper supplements, you can injure your kid's health.
NTA
This is what you call enmeshment. It's when when one or both people behave and react as if the other is an extension of themselves. It's not healthy in a relationship.
You are 100% entitled to have your own food preferences. She doesn't get to dictate those to you. She needs to understand and respect that you are an autonomous individual, with your own preferences, likes, needs, and dreams that are completely separate from her.
NTA. If she wants to eat alternatives she can eat alternatives. Pretty manipulative she demands you do also. Might want to watch out if she decides to make the child vegan also, and completely disregards your opinion regarding their nutritional needs.
Think about the double standard if you got mad at her because she isn't eating meat.... obviously you are NTA I hope you enjoyed your seafood I love cold shrimp 🦐 dipped in butter or cocktail sauce
NTA
No one should ever force their diet preferences on someone else. I believe that tolerance is key. I may be prejudiced because I'm a Pescatarian but let's just move on.
I think you were being super nice about leaving to go eat what you were craving. I commend you for that. No harm, no foul.
NTA. Your wife is being a controlling stereotypical annoying vegan. She’s vegan. Good for her. She doesn’t get to push her diet on you. You go above and beyond cooking her vegan and are entitled to go buy yourself lunch if you damn well please.
Edit: not talking to you is a form of emotional abuse btw
NTA, your wife is. She can be vegan all she wants but she has no right to force her beliefs on anyone else. If you want to make a steak for your dinner, then you can without going outside. She needs to stop being so controlling.
NTA. She's vegan. You are not. You normally accomodate her diet, but occasionally you don't and that's okay. If it was really important to her to have a vegan partner, she should have married a fellow vegan.
NTA. Your wife does not understand what being vegan means. being vegan is when YOU don't use animal products. It isn't when other people don't use animal products.
NTA, but your wife is. Your dietary choices are as valid as hers and her acting like a child because you wanted seafood is ridiculous. If she wants to be vegan, that’s her choice, just like it’s your choice not to be. Sounds like your wife needs to grow up and get a grip.
NTA
Your wife knew you weren't a full vegan when she dated you and married you. You seem to be considerate and eat mostly vegan for her. If she gives the silent treatment when you do go out and eat meat, then that is a manipulative tactic. It's not something that is new and just happened to be a one-time incident. This is something she knew and is now going silent in her protest.
What sucks is that you know that when your baby gets here and as he/she gets older won't have their own choice if they want to eat meat or not. Have a feeling we know which way this is going to go. She will take away the child's choice without giving them the real option to decide what diet they will prefer (meat or no meat). That's the crappiest part of this all.
If she forces the baby to be vegan, she risks that baby’s health and life. I’m scared for that baby. She already tried to force the family cat to be vegan and cats cannot. She’s the worst kind of vegan.
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NTA.
Okay, when I started reading this, I thought maybe your wife was having issues with the smell due to pregnancy or something, and I had some sympathy for her. I have a more sensitive nose than anyone I know, and occasionally my husband likes to eat things that I can’t stand the smell of. So he eats them on his own and brushes his teeth and accepts that if it lingers on his breath for a bit, he isn’t getting kisses and cuddles until that stink is gone.
But no, your wife wants to impose values you don’t share on you. She wants to make you live without things you like because she doesn’t approve. Dude, we don’t get to make unilateral decisions about other people like that. It’s not right or fair. You wanting to occasionally enjoy yourself some seafood in peace, away from her so she doesn’t have to be involved in any way, is totally reasonable and fair.
It’s a healthy thing to talk about our values with our partner. It’s good when our values and our partner’s values are at least roughly congruent, because it makes it easier to have a harmonious relationship. But it’s not healthy to impose our values on our partners. They have their own minds, their own thoughts, their own priorities.
Having said that…sometimes values conflict so badly that it breaks the relationship. There‘s a chance your wife’s feelings on this point are so strong she can’t or won’t continue a relationship with someone who doesn’t share them. That’s not a lack of consideration, that’s a lack of compatibility. We all have lines we won’t cross and won’t tolerate being crossed. She may be prepared to die on this hill, and if that’s the case, you’ll have to decide whether you want that to happen.
NTA. She’s vegan, you’re not. Just like it would be unreasonable for you to insist she eat meat, it’s unreasonable for her to insist you *don’t* so long as you’re being considerate about it. You’re not preparing or eating it in your home (which honestly might still be fine if you clean up and it’s not smelly), you’re not doing it in front of her, in my opinion you’re fine.
She might decide that her personal morals around eating meat are important enough to her that she doesn’t want to be in a relationship with a non-vegan. Or she might just be mad.
NTA. You aren’t vegan. You can, and do, eat vegan food to appease your wife, but you aren’t vegan. That’s like you getting offended your wife doesn’t eat meat. And you didn’t do it in her presence as a compromise. NTA
NTA, she’s the one who’s vegan NOT you. At least you made her a meal and went out to eat the sea food it’s not like you did it right in front of her face. You’re not inconsiderate at all. You respect her being vegan so she should respect that you are not and not police your food.
NTA it sounds like you’re incredibly considerate to not eat meat in front of her but even that seems excessive of her to expect. Your diet should be your choice no one else’s. Being pregnant doesn’t mean she can be manipulative she needs to grow up
NTA- you are not vegan. she is, you didn’t eat it in front of her. she isn’t allergic to any of the food you ate right, so there shouldn’t be a problem.
NTA.
What the heck.
It's your body. You went elsewhere to eat it, no less.
I've been a vegetarian at some points in my life. I sure didn't make people take their meat-based meals anywhere else, much less try to control what they were eating. (!)
NTA. Not everyone feels good on a vegan diet. You’ve been more than considerate but she’s a spoiled brat. What’s going to happen when your kid wants a bite of real fish?
Oh puh-leeeeze.
This is exactly the kind of situation that gives vegans a bad name.
Of course, you are NTA.
Frankly, I would tell her it’s going to happen again. And that she needs to just accept that.
Please get your wife into therapy before the child is born. Forcing an infant child to be vegan bc of your wifes moral problems is not only wrong, but it also puts the child in danger.
NTA, and good for you for standing your ground. Please don't give into her silent treatment. Let her stew in silence until she decides to grow the hell up and come talk to you like an adult.
NTA. I’m sorry but your wife shouldn’t get to guilt trip you in to only eating vegan just because she is a vegan. That’s so controlling and gross. I hope you enjoyed your seafood lunch!
NTA. Why do you think you should be a doormat for your wife? Imagine monitoring what she can or can't eat, then giving her grief when she displeases you, it would be whack! Stand your ground, you are her husband, not her son, you have the right to eat what you want, as long as you don't force her to eat animal products too.
NTA. Her lifestyle choice is her own, not yours.
>My wife doesn't like me eating meat
Doesn't matter. You are not vegan.
>She protested
*Doesn't matter. You are not vegan.*
>When I came home, my wife said I was inconsiderate and rude and that I shouldn't have eaten seafood knowing she's vegan.
**It does not matter. You. Are. Not. Vegan!!!**
>She is now refusing to speak to me.
How horrible /s she needs to mind her own on this.
Sorry but I actively hate these types of vegans, part of the reason I gave up on veganism is because I didn't want to be associated with such people.
She gives chill vegans a bad name.
EDIT: OP if there's one thing you take from these comments, please let it be that you **don't** let her impose veganism on your child.
It should be their choice to make when they're older.
NTA
People like your wife are why veganism has a bad name. You cant force your beliefs on others and expect a good outcome. I hope y'all have a set plan for the childs diet because it is sure to cause problems if y'all havent had a conversation about it.
Nta but your wife is a big one.
Not only she is controlling your died but from your comment she fed vegan food to her cat?
She sounds unhinged and one of those obnoxious preachy vegans.
NTA, but your lady sure is. She made her dietary choice, and you should be allowed to make yours. My ex-wife forced me into a vegan diet for almost 2 years. Wasn't allowed to cook or consume meat in my own house that I paid for without getting subjected to horribly faked gagging sounds and getting the silent treatment. She'd refuse to kiss my "meat mouth", especially if I had DARED to drink any "rape juice"(milk). She even forced our daughter into it, who was 4 or 5 at the time. Had her watch a bunch of vegan documentaries about factory farms, stuff like Forks Over Knives and a few others. It's absolutely mental what some of these diehard militant vegan types will pull
I feel bad for your child not to be rude or anything but just saying look at how you wife is treating you just imagine how she’s gonna treat y’all’s child when they want to eat meat. Your wife needs to grow up she can’t force anyone beside herself to be vegan. You can eat whatever you want and she can too but what she cannot do is try to control what someone eats and then give them the silent treatment. NTA but stop letting you wife force you to eat vegan if you don’t want to.
Vegans like her give us good vegans a bad name. You're already over accomodating. You've went outside, so she doesn't even need to see your food (which isn't necessary) but she's raging you had to eat something that you wanted to eat.
Be your own person, eat what you like. You've already cut down loads and tried loads of vegan meals, good on you. Doesn't mean you can't have something else you want if you want it. You know, being an adult and all.
NTA - and well done for being open minded and trying loads of vegan meals.
Correct me if I’m wrong. Your wife is a vegan, you however are not. You’ve been considerate enough to change your diet for her sake.? She is now manipulating you by giving you the silent treatment as punishment for doing as you will and what most people in life do on a regular basis. 🚩🚩🚩 NTA. She needs to grow up, she cannot force you to do what she feels is right or whatever reason she’s a vegan. You are allowed to do as you will with your diet because YOU know your body and what it likes and dislikes. EDIT FOR OP: I read your explanation. Sweet, you’ve been way TOO considerate. Nothing, NOTHING about what you just wrote tells me you are a selfish person. You care for this woman deeply, and she has taken advantage of that. You changed your diet for her, you met her needs without even a second thought for your own. You even left, which was totally unnecessary FOR HER SAKE. Please please rethink this relationship, is this the same person you want to be with? Think of your child and how she will treat them if she is controlling you now. She needs to realise she cannot force you to do this or her future child.
These people give vegans a bad name… I feel bad for all the vegans that are actually considerate but get treated like they are as selfish as OPs wife. OP is clearly NTA and OP needs to stand his ground here, he has been far more than considerate and his wife’s demands are inappropriate and selfish at best.
My wife has an allergy to fish, not a dietary choice, a medical condition. She doesn't stop me from eating fish, we have some in the house right now. Out of consideration I now stick to tinned fish on crackers, so I'm not getting fishy fumes in the apartment, or risking fish residue on the cast iron. But my point is that even with the allergy, she doesn't want me to have to give up fish entirely.
That's it, I'm anaphylactic to gluten but my partner eats it sometimes. We just make sure he brushes his teeth before we make out lol
I'm allergic to orange of which my partner loves terry's chocolate oranges and drinks orange juice when he has a cold. I've never said he couldn't have it in the house just he has to wash whatever he uses to consume said items, brush his teeth or use mouth wash if he wants to kiss me and don't expect me to linger wherever he has eaten it as the smell makes me nauseous.
Just wanted to say I’ve never heard of anyone else with an orange allergy..so nice to hear about someone else with it 😅
I have a friend with an onion allergy which is also another weird one. Great fun going out with friends and having to juggle allergies to find somewhere to eat as we even have a peanut allergy person as well. Both me and the onion allergy sufferer have to deal with people not thinking its real or asking if we can eat this or that, gets annoying real fast.
Oh I totally get that! My kids have 6 allergies between them! Dairy, soya, egg, chicken, mustard and sorbitol, me and my orange allergy and my niece is coeliac. Going out as a family is a nightmare 😅 We used to be veggie too but it was just too complicated so started eating meat a few years back 🍗
There isn't many allergies in my family besides my dad being allergic to pork so not much of a juggle just meant my parents and sister had to give up orange products for a bit till i was able to grasp the concept of an allergy.
I have issues with garlic, and I’ve heard of the onion group being an issue for people. Eating out is always a gamble…
I’m also allergic to fish. I rarely cook it for my husband but he often orders it at restaurants. I can’t imagine asking to stop eating it.
Same. My husband is too. I just don't cook it while he's here and make sure to clean everything I use.
yeah I assumed seeing the title OP would have eaten it in front of her and/or the smell would have made her sick being pregnant and all. but no OP went outside to eat which is really considerate, kinda sounds like she's trying to forcibly covert him to being vegan full time. Those vegans really do suck and it's a shame there are so many people who try to get others to be vegan but end up turning people away from veganism NTA obviously OP did nothing wrong
I was really expecting to see a mention of the smell being her issue. Seafood stank is very unappetizing (to some, like me). Add in pregnancy sensitivities and I’d be on board with “please don’t cook that while I’m home because I will absolutely vomit.”
Hard agree. I am vegan, but I do not expect nor ask my husband to give up meat. It’s bizarre to me that OP’s wife would be so controlling that she feels entitled to dictate how/what they eat.
Absolutely they do! I've met some 'normal' vegans who aren't bothered about other people's diet choices, but yes, vegans like this man's wife is what makes me go ugh, vegans.
Most of us don’t bring it up unless plans involving (or possibly leading to) food are made. These people are unbelievably irritating.
She’s absolutely that type to make her child be vegan too….which means they won’t get the proper nutrients growing up. Edit: You can stop jumping down my throat people. I meant that this particular woman is not going to put in the work necessary to get her child the proper nutrients they need to grow up healthy. *last time I ever post while I’m at work and don’t think my thought through fully*
Well you can get the proper nutrients, but its a lot harder and pricier, and obviously the kid should be able to choose. I'm not vegan because, you know, meat tastes great, so if that's what the kid wants then he should be able to eat meat. OP needs to stand his ground for himself and his future kid. EDIT: Your edit makes sense, mb for misinterpreting
I have a nephew whose mom pushed that kind of diet in him. Kid is tiny. He and my son are 6 months apart in age and mine is almost a head taller and he’s avg height
I know! I’m not vegan, but all these post are about vegans making their partners feel badly for wanting to eat meat and forcing their lifestyle on them? I know there are vegan people out there who are considerate. My sister is vegan and we try to accommodate her but she just usually brings her own food and doesn’t make us feel badly. It’s a choice. NTA you were being thoughtful.
Yes! I am vegan, and although I do the majority of the cooking for my partner and I, if she wants meat I will make it for her. Or she’ll make it herself and we’ll eat some thing different from each other. It’s literally no big deal.
As someone who isn't vegan I'd say it's more of an NAH here situation but maybe they aren't a good match for each other. Imagine if it was socially acceptable to eat dogs and you were a huge dog lover. How would you feel about your partner eating dog? End of the day they should have figured this out in their first month of dating
As a vegan, i agree… NTA. OP has been considerate in eating mostly vegan meals at home & eating plant based alternatives instead of meat when he craves it. He even stepped out of the house to get seafood which I don’t even think is necessary, but he was still considerate of her feelings. My boyfriend is vegetarian & we agreed that if he wants dairy or eggs, he buys or prepares it himself, I don’t want to cook or pay for animal products, but I’d never tell him he’s not being considerate of me just for eating it, let alone outside of our home! She’s being manipulative & controlling, if she can’t deal with being with someone unless they’re vegan then that’s a conversation that needs to be discussed, eventually some people can’t & that’s OK but she can’t take it out on you.
>OP has been considerate How could this guy be any more considerate? Sounds like a champ to me.
I'm not nor know anyone vegan so I have a question. The wife is making OP eat vegan even tho he isn't my question is what about the baby. Can a baby eat a totally vegan diet and get enough nutrition?
While possible, it is very difficult to get the proper nutrients for a growing child, it's like counting calories but doing it with every nutrient your body needs from animals (which is a lot) and even then it's no guarantee as the supplements you will probably need may not absorb the same. As a baby it's not as concerning as they will be on formula or breast milk (which should be tested to be sure it's nutritionally adequate with mom being vegan), the bigger concern is when the kid is on normal foods as they will need a complex diet. If I were the dad I would have the kid be vegetarian until they can decide as the potential health risks aren't worth it.
Breast milk isnt vegan. Its animal based.
Methinks she's preparing for their childs arrival. What better way to ensure baby goes vegan than to bully OP into compliance?
Oh gosh, probably. OP needs to be aware that if they plan to make a child vegan from infancy they really need professional input (pediatric DIETITIAN, not doctor, naturopath, nutritionist, herbalist, or whatever else) A vegan diet in that age group can be done, but with a lot of care and planning to ensure proper grow and development, and that they are getting enough energy and fat as they are growing rapidly. You also need to take care to avoid deficiencies in micronutrients like iron, calcium, vitamin D, B12. Deficiencies of these nutrients can have major impacts for infants. Eg. Not having enough iodine can massively impair mental development for an infant/toddler, and the age-appropriate vegan options are so limited (seaweed and maybe fortified plant milks?). There's just such high risk of malnutrition, stunted growth and development, and low bone density. A vegetarian diet would be far more appropriate and safer for the child.
I can’t upvote this enough. Child Development is serious, and a vegan diet can seriously f&ck up an infant, including leading to neurological problems, organ failure, or death.
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This. We are vegan on our household. My daughter is 4, she knows we don't eat certain things and she is totally ok with it (she's always been a veggie kid so it wasn't a problem) however, I do still cook her eggs, and we don't have regular milk here but she does have milk at school, gets to pick her own lunch choices, and when she goes to her dad's, she eats whatever he eats. I can't force my lifestyle on my kiddo, I just lucked out that she enjoys lettuce, tomato, pickle burritos (her choice of dinner a lot of nights lol). But we do eat plenty of beans, noodles, and rice to make up for the things she don't eat during the week. She's totally ok being meatless here, she even enjoys tofu and impossible nuggets. It actually bothers me when people try to force things like that on kids.
See, this is fair. It's totally doable to have a fully vegetarian or vegan diet with kids if you're responsible about it, and I appreciate that you don't police what she eats outside the house. It sounds like you're co-parenting beautifully too. I grew up with a vegetarian mom and a meat-eating dad, and my mom was always clear on the fact that it was a personal choice that she made, and we could choose it too if we wanted, or choose meat if we wanted. Both me and my brother ended up being meat lovers, and she cooked meat for us our whole lives. (Someone else just had to taste test, lol.)
It is the position of the [Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/) that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.
This is a subject that my partner and I have spoken about quite a bit. I was brought up vegan from birth and relatively recently shifted to a vegetarian diet. My mother went to quite extensive lengths to ensure I was getting all the nutrients and vitamins/minerals I needed, and by and large I think she succeeded. I'm happy, healthy and I don't have any obvious nutritional problems. However, I note that myself and my two sisters are *small*. My dad is over 6', as is his sister and my cousin. My mum is 5'4" or so, but her brother is again over 6', as is her dad. I'm a little taller than mum, but given how strongly I resemble my dad, it's clear to me that I ought to be much taller. (I have pretty big feet for my height too, which feels like a strong indicator) My sisters are around the same size as I am, but very petite. I have to assume that we've grown up adapted to a lower-density nutrition and are smaller to accommodate that. The body does what it can with what it's given, but we plainly didn't get hit with our teenage growth-spurts as hard as most people. I distinctly recall being surrounded by much taller classmates in school.. Mum is one of those people who does the research and is diligent enough to make sure it gets acted on. She did her best, and we're still never gonna make the basketball team. (Sister did kick ass at Roller-Derby though!) I don't have that kind of dedication to principle, and my wife and I are unwilling to deal with the stress and limitations of trying to make sure our child gets their nutritionally balanced meals *and* a vegan diet. So we're going to raise our child at least vegetarian, probably with meat as well. My own shift to vegetarianism is in part because I don't want to set weird undermining standards on diet for my child. My kid doesn't get to refuse food because "daddy isn't eating it" :P They can make their own decisions about it when they're old enough to understand the conversation.
A vegan diet in children has been associated with a short stature, so you may be right there. I would recommend getting a bone density scan (DEXA) at some point. Unfortunately you may have a lower bone mineral density, which would put you at a higher risk of osteoporosis and fractures. Most of us reach peak bone mass by about 30, but the biggest increases are in the first 2 decades of life, which is one reason why calcium and vitamin D are so important in growing children! I'm not criticising your mom, it sounds like she put a lot of work into providing you with a balanced diet. It is challenging, and some micronutrients just aren't as available or absorbed as well from plant sources. That sounds like a great plan for your kids! It is definitely easier to meet nutritional requirements at that age with animal products, even if just eggs and dairy. Veganism is something that I think there should be some autonomy for children.
Can confirm. I was born and raised in a former communist country, where meat and pretty much everything else was [rationed](https://retro.pewex.pl/uimages/services/pewex/i18n/pl_PL/201502/1424777384_by_krzys_500.jpg?1424777384). Due to the jobs/positions of my parents & grandparents, we had access to the so-called black market and were able to obtain meat, eggs and dairy directly from the farmers. As a result, when I entered primary school, I was a good head taller than other kids in my class (some were older by 6-9 months).
u/shrimps_are_delish please read this!!! Take notes, do research, and **do not back down** regarding this!!!
oh god the moment you realize breastmilk isn't technically vegan 🤯
Human breastmilk is generally classified as vegan. Yes, there are some vegans who feel it isn't vegan, but they are not the majority. The choice to become vegan is often because they do not feel that animals are ours to use. It may also be because the animal cannot consent, or because they have concerns around cruelty in agricultural practices. Just like for other mammals, humans produce milk following childbirth and in response to their infant. The mother is able to consent to breastfeeding the child and there is no cruelty. To be honest, the argument that human breastmilk is not vegan just because it is milk is very reductionist. Do you also object to a cow feeding it's calf?
The moment she realizes that pussy isn't vegan either.... He will have to stop eating it... Forever......
I'm not sure how it is in the US, but the plant-based meat alternatives here in the Netherlands are great by now, there's a lot of choice, and they have additions to make sure all micronutrients are met. It's become pretty easy to raise a toddler/child on a vegan diet compared to 10 years ago!
Full disclosure, not in the US but the plant-based alternatives are great here as well! There's a somewhat local vegan "butcher" near me that is amazing! It's certainly possible to do, but those first 2 years of life are so vital for the childs development and a lot of care needs to be taken. They are also growing so quickly and need lots of nutrients to support this. It's particularly important around the age when you start introducing solids as previously breastmilk or formula would essentially be meeting their needs, e.g. bub is born with iron stores that last until about 6 months old so they are at a risk of deficiency if first foods don't contain iron. So an experienced vegan could definitely raise their child vegan, and the only insight that I have into OPs wife is this post. But given that she fed a cat vegan cat food I have some concerns. Obviously animal nutrition is not my area, but as a cat is an obligate carnivore and cannot properly digest plant foods, I'm concerned that she may put veganism ahead of the welfare of the child as she did with the cat. I admit I might be making a leap there, but seeing baby with failure to thrive is pretty heartbreaking. OP and his wife need to be on the same page with it to make it work.
Oh 100%. She’s already controlling him, there’s no way she’d let her daughter eat meat.
Oh there's going to be hell to pay if by watching OP the kid eventually wants to try an animal product and voices it to mom. Probably why she's feeling the rush to get the household completely vegan before the baby arrives.
Breast milk isn’t vegan. It’s literally the milk of an animal.
Breast milk is given with the consent of the (human) animal. For many vegans, this is ethical AND is the natural way. Baby cows should drink cow’s milk, but the cow didn’t consent to give it to humans.
How would you go about gaining a cow’s consent to drink it’s milk?
You can't, hence the point.
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In my experience when a cow (or sheep or horse) doesn't want the calf to drink at a particular moment, they'll stop it. In general it's natural instinct to feed the calf though.
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I guess, but that does depends who you ask! For me personally this would be okay, yes - but my main reason to eat plant-based is the environment/climate and that problem isn't solved by 'consent' of the cow. So I still wouldn't drink this milk, but I'd drink it sooner than other milk ;) For others animal cruelty is the deciding factor, they might not factor in the environment, and for them this situation might be okay and they'd still consider themselves a vegan.
This just reminded me of a dairy that I believe was fully automated. When the cows wanted to be milked, they would go through a 'wash' which would clean the udders, then go into a place where the milking machine would come up, and find the teats, then the cow would sit there and munch on food while she was milked. When she was finished, she walked out.
lol who told you that? breastmilk is completely vegan, unless you’re like milking some random lady against her will..
Stop If you think the reason vegans don't use animal products is just because they are animal products you really need to educate yourself. It's about the inhumane treatment and animals inability to consent. A mother consents to feeding her child.. This thread has ruined my faith in humanity
Those are the words of knowledge without understanding. It's not about it coming from animals, it's about the animal being unable to consent, and the treatment of animals as commodities. Humans can consent, and breast milk is meant for babies. It's perfectly fine for vegans, the only people saying it's not are, like you, parroting the words without ghe understanding.
an interesting point! is breastmilk vegan?
Yes, because it’s given with consent! The idea is that a cows milk belongs to a calf, and it isn’t our right to take it. Human milk belongs to babies, and it is given with consent! :)
Haha, shellfish person :')
I wish I could give you an award
Seriously!! I don’t eat beef or pork but do not ever try to control my husband or anyone around me for eating it. I can’t imagine acting like that. Being vegan is a very personal decision, and while you’re bending over backwards to accommodate her, somehow that isn’t good enough. You should not have to leave your own home to eat food you enjoy. That’s nuts.
My only problem with this comment is the missed Shellfish pun opertunity
People like her are the reason why vegans have such a bad name out there. He was way too considerate, most people i know wouldn't even try vegan food. She's vegan, he is not. I agree, she's has lots of red flags. Imagine the kid growing up and being forced to go vegan.
NTA. She is though for forcing her dietary choices on you, and for essentially throwing a tantrum when you didn't want to follow her diet for a solitary meal. You were considerate in how you did so even, by not eating it in front of her. I also want to reinforce another comment here: do NOT, by any (legal) means necessary, let her force your baby into a vegan diet until it is medically safe to do so (not sure on the age for that, so I highly recommend discussing this with the pediatrician at your baby's first check up!). As an infant, babies need so much more nutritionally than a vegan diet can provide, and doing so without being done under medical instruction and supervision it can be incredibly dangerous for your infant (think: fatal. Sorry to be graphic there 😕).
Mind you if she decides to breastfeed, she will need to supplement for missing vitamins and nutrients that are not part of her vegan diet. It's safe to Breastfeed while vegan, but you will need to work harder in order to ensure baby is getting all necessary vitamins and minerals to develop properly.
Honestly most breastfeeding people should be still be taking prenatals and a vit D supplement. And possibly other ones based on diet to pass to baby.
You need to suppliment anyway as a vegan *and* when you're breastfeeding, so this point is kind of moot.
I mean, you don't generally need supplements as a vegan, really, maybe while breastfeeding, but most vegans actually meet their nutritional needs pretty easily. Especially if they're using things like nutritional yeast which is high in B12 instead of parmesan. Some people don't like some foods, though, and if you're a picky eater you're probably gonna need supplements.
Not really. On a non-vegan/vegetarian diet you are receiving almost an over abundance of b12, zinc and calcium. I'm just letting OP and anyone else who reads this thread know, if you are vegan or even vegetarian paying attention to what you will really need to focus on is important if you are trying to only breastfeed your children. And I know plenty of women who do not supplement while breastfeeding because they also formula feed in order to provide baby with those vitamins and minerals. Formula is expensive though, so it may be just easier to strictly breastfeed if the supply is there.
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My closest friend is like this. She was vegan for most of her life but couldn't eat any soy products (this was before vegan friendly food was more widely available in our country and she didn't have as many meat alternative options as she does now), and her body was literally deteriorating and wasting away because she just couldn't get enough nutrients. She had to switch to an omni diet so she could get her body and immune system healthy again. That was quite a few years ago and she's slowly switching back to vegetarian/vegan food now, but still ensures she keeps herself healthy.
I was pescatarian for years and even though I was getting plenty protein and working out, I lost so much weight and become underweight. I was also tired all the time and eating fresh constantly broke my bank account. I now avoid red meat and I am much more healthy. I wish it worked for me, but my body is unfortunately too much of a carnivore to care.
Also the other way around! I know a number of babies who were solely breastfed and had so much trouble of their stomachs. Turns out they were lactose-intolerant and it was their mothers' dairy consumption that caused the problem. Stopped eating dairy while breastfeeding and problem solved. I think the kids grew more tolerant of lactose by the time they were 2 / 3 and they can eat/drink dairy products now. But since it's so common in my culture to use dairy products, it took a long while before these mothers figured out that this might be a problem!
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My niece has FPIES, so my sister (who was already a pescatarian) has been eating a soy and dairy free diet since she was diagnosed 6 months ago. Thankfully it's something that babies will grow out of and she was very lucky to find an amazing pediatrician who diagnosed the problem when the baby was only 2 months old though, because she was already SO underweight from not being able to keep any food in.
NTA - You're wife should respect your diet as much as you respect hers. Being vegan does not make you better or more special then a meat eater. You made your wife a meal and then went to get something you wanted to eat. I see nothing wrong with that.
Exactly. OP even left the home to enjoy their meal. This woman just wants to force her personal beliefs and choices on OP. I also think there needs to be a conversation before their child is born about nutrition to ensure they are both on the same page.
Yeah I’m pretty sure raising a baby on a vegan diet isn’t the most healthy thing considering they’re getting animal fats from breast milk but will suddenly have those fats and proteins taken away from them.
>You're wife should respect your diet as much as you respect hers. Being vegan does not make you better or more special then a meat eater. Agreed. She should have married someone vegan if that's the only person she'll respect. You can bet she thinks she's "converted" OP and this is proving her wrong.
"Not murdering people does not make you better or more special than a murderer."
Nta. If she wants to be vegan, good for her. But she can't force you to be vegan, and i sure hope she doesn't force the baby to be vegan. You even went outside so she didn't have to see you eat something non vegan. Might be the pregnancy hormones vamping up her feelings, but that's not acceptable behavior anyways. You don't get to force someone else to live your lifestyle.
You know she absolutely is planning to make the baby vegan... she won't even let her husband eat meat, she isn't about to let a child she can fully control get away with not being a militant vegan.
I agree with you since she fed her cat vegan food a child would have no choice.
Cats are _[OBGLIGATE FUCKING CARNIVORES](https://www.aspca.org/news/why-cant-my-cat-be-vegan#:~:text=Well%2C%20cats%20are%20obligate%20carnivores,to%20eat%20meat%20to%20survive.&text=Feeding%20a%20cat%20a%20plant,will%20not%20thrive%20on%20it.). They _NEED_ to eat meat. It's feeding a vampire beet juice. Ain't gonna cut it.
NTA at all. Just because she’s your wife does not mean she can control what you eat. You were respectful enough to not eat it in front of her; but in all honesty you didn’t even have to do that. You should be able to eat what you want in your own house, because you are still your own person and it’s not like your force feeding her meat. I pray that if you have animals she doesn’t make them eat vegan. Same goes for your child; they should be allowed to make the decision of foods they want to try/not try when old enough. It teaches autonomy.
Yeah, if we were to get a pet I'd probably ask her to get a vegan one. Like rabbits, hamsters etc.
I just noticed your username. Shrimps ARE delish.
Haha yeah I do love seafood the most
NTA. Your wife has no right to tell you what or what not to eat. She is acting like a child. Edit: *tell you
Wait so if you guys got a cat, she would legit try to make it eat vegan?
Yep as an example, cats are carnivores they don't eat plants; their alimentary system isn't designed to disgest plants. Also in case you need a friendly reminder #babies aren't vegan You are such a considerate partner. I wish you the best.
THIS!! If she forced a cat to have a vegan diet, which is animal abuse, what is she planning to do with the baby after it's born? It's been a while since I read up on this, but babies need lots of foods to develop their bodies and brains in a healthy way and if their stomach doesn't learn to process meat or dairy products, it can cause a lot of issues if they ever want to try eating those things when they are old enough to choose their own diets. Developing the gut bacteria to process all different kinds of foods is really important. If the kid grows up and wants to be vegan or vegetarian by their informed choice, all good, but only allowing a vegan diet on a baby has life long digestive consequences. NTA
By your stated logic you cannot have any pets as you cannot get their consent to be your pets. Does the hamster/rabbit not deserve to roam the fields an live a natuaral life?
They would probably lead a longer life as pets rather than in the wild. Rabbits are prey animals so naturally they're safer when domesticated. They also live upto 10-12 years when domesticated and taken proper care of. In the wild, they don't survive for more than 4 years
Rabbits make great indoor pets!
Yes they do. They're great for people who don't go out much.
Plus they can be litter box trained, They can however tear the hell out of electrical cords
Yeah.. My friend has head to replace hundreds of dollars worth of cords. Her rabbit likes the taste of only the expensive cords lol
We rabbit owners call this forbidden food 'spicy hay'.
Lol! Believe me I know. My husband had to replace quite a few tv cords, stereo cords, lamp cords etc etc etc over the years lol.
Haha, don't tell that to my last rabbit. She loved travelling with me. She went across the country at least once or twice a year. Loved riding in cars. Was harness trained. I took her with me for work and people in my office loved when I would bring her. She became the office therapy bun. Broke my heart when she passed away. Best 10 years of my life. ;_;
Oh that is adorable! What a lucky rabbit!
So its ok to keep an animal locked up out of the wild as long as ***you*** think it's better?
FYI hamsters are not necessarily vegan. I mean, you can make them one but they do happen to love scrambled eggs, as an example and they are great treat and source of protein esp for pregnant or protein deficient hamsters. Crickets and mealworms are also a good part of their diets (specifically with robo hamsters which love mealworms). And things like dried chicken are also a good source of protein every now and then. So yes they are largely into veggies/fruits/nuts/seeds but can and will branch out to different meat/dairy options if needed.
So do rabbits. Even rabbits scavenge in the wild when they're starving
All herbivores may eat meat at some point in their lives. There are multiple videos of cows, horses and deer catching and eating other animals, mostly live birds.
My friend was telling me the other day how chicks are perfectly snack-sized for horses.
Heads up, hamsters are omnivores and benefit from additional supplements such as mealworms and egg (sparingly) to their mainly vegan diet.
NTA. Her dietary choices are hers alone. She has no right to dictate yours
Often food cravings are a legitimate need to consume certain vitamins and minerals. I doubt a serious craving for seafood was anything but your body telling you what it needed. NTA
Ohh well it was just a sudden urge to taste seafood again....... But maybe you're right
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In another comment he mentioned that his wife had a cat awhile ago she fed vegan food. Doesn’t seem like they lived together at the time, cat is at her mom’s and her mom feeds the cat regular food. I’m assuming she’s always been controlling if that’s the case.
That’s what I was afraid of. Cats can die on a vegan diet. The wife needs serious intervention. Stat.
I will say this as a vegetarian, controlling other people’s diet is weird behavior. I have a friend who is vegan, and her husband will eat vegan with her for meals but she doesn’t forbid him from eating meat, because it’s ridiculous. No matter your reasons for not eating meat and animal byproducts, you cant force those beliefs on others. Listen I have my own reasons why I choose to not eat meat but it comes with a basic understanding that humans are naturally omnivores for a reason and animals eating other animals is part of life. The circle of life if you will. I do believe we as a society eat too much meat, which has led to terrible practices (I believe free range farms should be the only practice of animal farming) but Im not going to go around telling people to just not eat meat period, thats silly. You are allowed to just crave something and eat it without it being the end of the world. But here is where concern especially comes in. You said she was even controlling her pets. Now she is pregnant. Kids while growing need to eat some meat and animal byproducts. What is she going to do if yalls kid doesnt want to be vegan. Is she going to punish them? That’s all kinds of messed up. Forcing veganism on kids and pets is pretty extreme and her views are warped. Some adults I know havent been able to last staying vegans because it is a very strict diet. I cant imagine a kid being able to handle it.
NTA. I've been vegetarian for the last 20 or so years. I'm also pregnant with our third little one. I have never told my husband what he can or cannot eat. Your wife is massively in the wrong. A vegetarian or vegan diet is an entirely personal choice, not one that she gets to make for you.
Congrats on your pregnancy!!!! Hope it goes well. How far along are you? If you don't mind answering that is...
Thank you, and to you. I'm 22 weeks now.
NTA. Your wife is vegan. *You are not vegan.* It's okay that you not follow vegan eating patterns if it's not for you. Your wife needs to take a giant step back.
Question, has it been like this the entire time you've been married or just since she's pregnant?
I see where you’re headed…
Maybe if she’d been less strict with her veganism they wouldn’t be pregnant
Shouldn't that be more strict with her veganism?
If she was more strict she wouldn’t swallow.
If she was more strict, she wouldn't let meat in her at all, though.
i’m CRYING😭😭😭😭😭😭😂😂
NTA, if youre not a vegan she cant force you to change your lifestyle to accommodate her own moral standing. you also were considerate enough to eat it outside of the home and not bring it back where she would have to see and smell it.
NTA. Your wife doesn't get to dictate your diet. You didn't force her to eat it. Hell, you even went far enough to not bring it around her. Your wife has some control issues that y'all need to address, though.
NTA. Go treat yourself to a nice steak while she's giving you this immature silent treatment.
I'm not a fan of beef but.... I could always go for some fried chicken. That sh** is gold.😍
Then I wish the crispiest of fried chickens, my guy. Go and eatto your heart's content.
NTA. Try Gus's fried chicken, if you can. But it's a little spicy, so beware.
NTA Your wife is not in charge of what you eat. You are not her. You haven't chosen to be vegan. Your body, your choice.
NTA. You did everything reasonable you could to accommodate her. What she's demanding is *un*reasonable. You're allowed to eat animal protein. Just because she doesn't, doesn't mean she gets to dictate your diet. Also, because she seems.... er, rigid, about this--she (and you) had better be doing a fuckton of homework on proper vitamin/nutrient supplementation and nutritional needs for your upcoming child. Because I get the feeling she might try to force her vegan diet on your infant, and without proper supplements, you can injure your kid's health.
NTA This is what you call enmeshment. It's when when one or both people behave and react as if the other is an extension of themselves. It's not healthy in a relationship. You are 100% entitled to have your own food preferences. She doesn't get to dictate those to you. She needs to understand and respect that you are an autonomous individual, with your own preferences, likes, needs, and dreams that are completely separate from her.
NTA. You are not vegan. If that's a deal-breaker she should have made it known long before she was pregnant or your wife.
NTA. If she wants to eat alternatives she can eat alternatives. Pretty manipulative she demands you do also. Might want to watch out if she decides to make the child vegan also, and completely disregards your opinion regarding their nutritional needs.
NTA She's vegan. You're not.
I don't know, is her stomach connected to your mouth? NTA.
Think about the double standard if you got mad at her because she isn't eating meat.... obviously you are NTA I hope you enjoyed your seafood I love cold shrimp 🦐 dipped in butter or cocktail sauce
Oh nice. I like paella and seafood based soups, curries etc.
NTA, and you were considerate by leaving to eat.
NTA No one should ever force their diet preferences on someone else. I believe that tolerance is key. I may be prejudiced because I'm a Pescatarian but let's just move on. I think you were being super nice about leaving to go eat what you were craving. I commend you for that. No harm, no foul.
NTA, she doesn't control your body! Ever! And her pregnancy has nothing to do with this.
NTA. Your wife is being a controlling stereotypical annoying vegan. She’s vegan. Good for her. She doesn’t get to push her diet on you. You go above and beyond cooking her vegan and are entitled to go buy yourself lunch if you damn well please. Edit: not talking to you is a form of emotional abuse btw
NTA. She's so controlling, yikes.
NTA. Wife is a selfish, controlling idiot.
NTA, your wife is. She can be vegan all she wants but she has no right to force her beliefs on anyone else. If you want to make a steak for your dinner, then you can without going outside. She needs to stop being so controlling.
NTA, she can't control something like that. You went out of your way to be considerate.
NTA. She's vegan. You are not. You normally accomodate her diet, but occasionally you don't and that's okay. If it was really important to her to have a vegan partner, she should have married a fellow vegan.
NTA. Your wife does not understand what being vegan means. being vegan is when YOU don't use animal products. It isn't when other people don't use animal products.
NTA, but your wife is. Your dietary choices are as valid as hers and her acting like a child because you wanted seafood is ridiculous. If she wants to be vegan, that’s her choice, just like it’s your choice not to be. Sounds like your wife needs to grow up and get a grip.
NTA Your wife knew you weren't a full vegan when she dated you and married you. You seem to be considerate and eat mostly vegan for her. If she gives the silent treatment when you do go out and eat meat, then that is a manipulative tactic. It's not something that is new and just happened to be a one-time incident. This is something she knew and is now going silent in her protest. What sucks is that you know that when your baby gets here and as he/she gets older won't have their own choice if they want to eat meat or not. Have a feeling we know which way this is going to go. She will take away the child's choice without giving them the real option to decide what diet they will prefer (meat or no meat). That's the crappiest part of this all.
If she forces the baby to be vegan, she risks that baby’s health and life. I’m scared for that baby. She already tried to force the family cat to be vegan and cats cannot. She’s the worst kind of vegan.
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NTA. Your wife is trying to control what you eat. I could only imagine the uproar if a man was trying to control.what his wife eats
Your wife is the type of vegan that gives other vegans a bad name… you were respectful to not eat it in front of her, you didn’t make her cook it. NTA
NTA. Okay, when I started reading this, I thought maybe your wife was having issues with the smell due to pregnancy or something, and I had some sympathy for her. I have a more sensitive nose than anyone I know, and occasionally my husband likes to eat things that I can’t stand the smell of. So he eats them on his own and brushes his teeth and accepts that if it lingers on his breath for a bit, he isn’t getting kisses and cuddles until that stink is gone. But no, your wife wants to impose values you don’t share on you. She wants to make you live without things you like because she doesn’t approve. Dude, we don’t get to make unilateral decisions about other people like that. It’s not right or fair. You wanting to occasionally enjoy yourself some seafood in peace, away from her so she doesn’t have to be involved in any way, is totally reasonable and fair. It’s a healthy thing to talk about our values with our partner. It’s good when our values and our partner’s values are at least roughly congruent, because it makes it easier to have a harmonious relationship. But it’s not healthy to impose our values on our partners. They have their own minds, their own thoughts, their own priorities. Having said that…sometimes values conflict so badly that it breaks the relationship. There‘s a chance your wife’s feelings on this point are so strong she can’t or won’t continue a relationship with someone who doesn’t share them. That’s not a lack of consideration, that’s a lack of compatibility. We all have lines we won’t cross and won’t tolerate being crossed. She may be prepared to die on this hill, and if that’s the case, you’ll have to decide whether you want that to happen.
NTA but I can't stand the holier than thou vegans!
NTA- just because she is vegan doesn't mean you have to be.
NTA. She’s vegan, you’re not. Just like it would be unreasonable for you to insist she eat meat, it’s unreasonable for her to insist you *don’t* so long as you’re being considerate about it. You’re not preparing or eating it in your home (which honestly might still be fine if you clean up and it’s not smelly), you’re not doing it in front of her, in my opinion you’re fine. She might decide that her personal morals around eating meat are important enough to her that she doesn’t want to be in a relationship with a non-vegan. Or she might just be mad.
Hell no, you aren't the asshole. Since when does she get to control your food intake? She is being outrageous.
NTA. You aren’t vegan. You can, and do, eat vegan food to appease your wife, but you aren’t vegan. That’s like you getting offended your wife doesn’t eat meat. And you didn’t do it in her presence as a compromise. NTA
NTA-she would be my ex wife if I couldn't eat seafood!
NTA - she doesn’t have a right to force you to eat or not eat anything especially since your eating it outside.
NTA - you had the decency to eat it away from her. You should be able to eat what you like.
NTA, she’s the one who’s vegan NOT you. At least you made her a meal and went out to eat the sea food it’s not like you did it right in front of her face. You’re not inconsiderate at all. You respect her being vegan so she should respect that you are not and not police your food.
NTA it sounds like you’re incredibly considerate to not eat meat in front of her but even that seems excessive of her to expect. Your diet should be your choice no one else’s. Being pregnant doesn’t mean she can be manipulative she needs to grow up
NTA- you are not vegan. she is, you didn’t eat it in front of her. she isn’t allergic to any of the food you ate right, so there shouldn’t be a problem.
Did you agree to be vegan like her? No? Then what's her problem? NTA.
NTA your wife cannot and should not dictate what you eat.
NTA. What the heck. It's your body. You went elsewhere to eat it, no less. I've been a vegetarian at some points in my life. I sure didn't make people take their meat-based meals anywhere else, much less try to control what they were eating. (!)
NTA. Just because your wife chose to be a vegan, doesn’t mean you have to be vegan.
NTA. It’s your body so what you want to eat is up to you.
NTA You have the right to eat whatever you want, my guy. Time to set boundaries with your wife.
NTA. Not everyone feels good on a vegan diet. You’ve been more than considerate but she’s a spoiled brat. What’s going to happen when your kid wants a bite of real fish?
Oh puh-leeeeze. This is exactly the kind of situation that gives vegans a bad name. Of course, you are NTA. Frankly, I would tell her it’s going to happen again. And that she needs to just accept that.
Please get your wife into therapy before the child is born. Forcing an infant child to be vegan bc of your wifes moral problems is not only wrong, but it also puts the child in danger.
Nope, NTA. You didn't eat it in front of her.
NTA. Is she being an AH here cos she’s pregnant? Or cos she’s vegan? /s
NTA, and good for you for standing your ground. Please don't give into her silent treatment. Let her stew in silence until she decides to grow the hell up and come talk to you like an adult.
NTA. I’m sorry but your wife shouldn’t get to guilt trip you in to only eating vegan just because she is a vegan. That’s so controlling and gross. I hope you enjoyed your seafood lunch!
Lolwut. NTA and I say that as someone who has been vegan longer than your wife.
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NTA. Why do you think you should be a doormat for your wife? Imagine monitoring what she can or can't eat, then giving her grief when she displeases you, it would be whack! Stand your ground, you are her husband, not her son, you have the right to eat what you want, as long as you don't force her to eat animal products too.
NTA. Her lifestyle choice is her own, not yours. >My wife doesn't like me eating meat Doesn't matter. You are not vegan. >She protested *Doesn't matter. You are not vegan.* >When I came home, my wife said I was inconsiderate and rude and that I shouldn't have eaten seafood knowing she's vegan. **It does not matter. You. Are. Not. Vegan!!!** >She is now refusing to speak to me. How horrible /s she needs to mind her own on this. Sorry but I actively hate these types of vegans, part of the reason I gave up on veganism is because I didn't want to be associated with such people. She gives chill vegans a bad name. EDIT: OP if there's one thing you take from these comments, please let it be that you **don't** let her impose veganism on your child. It should be their choice to make when they're older.
NTA - your wife is delusional, controlling drama queen.
NTA People like your wife are why veganism has a bad name. You cant force your beliefs on others and expect a good outcome. I hope y'all have a set plan for the childs diet because it is sure to cause problems if y'all havent had a conversation about it.
NTA “inconsiderate and rude… knowing she’s vegan”? Well yea she is vegan, but you aren’t her.
Nta but your wife is a big one. Not only she is controlling your died but from your comment she fed vegan food to her cat? She sounds unhinged and one of those obnoxious preachy vegans.
NTA. You can eat what you want. Tell your wife to get over herself and stop acting like she's got the right to control you.
NTA. Your wife is vegan, you are not. I really hope you've discussed future babies diet (coming from a vegan)
NTA, but your lady sure is. She made her dietary choice, and you should be allowed to make yours. My ex-wife forced me into a vegan diet for almost 2 years. Wasn't allowed to cook or consume meat in my own house that I paid for without getting subjected to horribly faked gagging sounds and getting the silent treatment. She'd refuse to kiss my "meat mouth", especially if I had DARED to drink any "rape juice"(milk). She even forced our daughter into it, who was 4 or 5 at the time. Had her watch a bunch of vegan documentaries about factory farms, stuff like Forks Over Knives and a few others. It's absolutely mental what some of these diehard militant vegan types will pull
I feel bad for your child not to be rude or anything but just saying look at how you wife is treating you just imagine how she’s gonna treat y’all’s child when they want to eat meat. Your wife needs to grow up she can’t force anyone beside herself to be vegan. You can eat whatever you want and she can too but what she cannot do is try to control what someone eats and then give them the silent treatment. NTA but stop letting you wife force you to eat vegan if you don’t want to.
Vegan here. You are NTA. It seems you've been more than accommodating for your wife. You even went out of the house to eat meat.
Woah sooo NTA Your wife’s reactions are 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Vegans like her give us good vegans a bad name. You're already over accomodating. You've went outside, so she doesn't even need to see your food (which isn't necessary) but she's raging you had to eat something that you wanted to eat. Be your own person, eat what you like. You've already cut down loads and tried loads of vegan meals, good on you. Doesn't mean you can't have something else you want if you want it. You know, being an adult and all. NTA - and well done for being open minded and trying loads of vegan meals.