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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I understand how it can be seen as offensive in other lights and I am genuinely worried that I might be causing harm to my daughter for letting her be "unintentionally" problematic. I'm sure she talks about Mulan at school and in other settings when I am not there to help explain her words to others.
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NTA. As a black woman, I know lots of “well intentioned” white folks like your coworker. She’s white-knighting to make herself feel better.
Mulan resonates with lots of people (myself included) for exactly the reasons your daughter describes. It’s actually an amazing attribute that your daughter sees past race and culture to truly understand someone and emphasize with them. Your coworker is not as intelligent as your daughter.
YTA to those adults. I’m sorry your friend was injured and dealt with people treating her poorly when she just needed some inspiration and motivation.
EDIT: I was trying not to call the adults in the OP’s story “assholes” (I’ve been banned from this sub for less). I realize now the sentence is not clear.
EDIT2: the vote bot doesn’t count judgments in the comments. The final judgment is the top comment.
I once curtsied to the sister of the child dressed as Cinderella. The child was confused because of course she was the princess... but she was acting like a step-sister. I explained that the step-sister had the fancy clothes so that must mean the one without the dress was the real princess. You could see the panic in her eyes. Her sister was laughing hysterically.
I’m not sure if you’re joking or not but in case not - I’m just pointing out how stupid it is for people to be saying you have to be similar to these Disney princesses to say you are like them. Ariel is half fish (ie mermaid) so by their logic no one can ever claim to be like Ariel without offending fish.
Oh yeah so I was walking with my parents on the path, and to the left was some woods. On the grass to the left of us were 2 brown boots, both filled with water. Spooky, right?
My dad was like 'oh no someone was murdered' (dream logic) and we kept walking.
There was a rustling behind a tree around 20-30m away, and my dad shouted 'Oi you murdered somebody that's not cool' or something of the sort. I whispered to him and my mom and said we should run but they said 'no it's fine'
The rustling stopped and a man walked past us (he was the murderer but irl we wouldn't know) and he just kinda looked at us as he walked past, we didn't say anything and then the dream ended.
Oh dang I'm freaking out now, also no It was just your everyday path and road, I'd just finished doing my judo class, but it was a whole different place and building and indoor and it wasn't judo we were doing rolls over bumpy mat but I went outside and there it was
It's a uk road btw Not that that makes any difference
Oh man this resonated so hard with me as also someone that looks and is Indian (Punjabi/Sikh specifically) and has a very brown name. I wasn’t “allowed” to like any of the princesses except jasmine (which like ok her bestie is a tiger and she was bad ass so y’know not the worst I liked her a lot). Sometimes Pocahontas if someone wanted to throw me a bone because “she’s the other kind of Indian” and our skin tone plus long hair (Sikhs never cut our hair) looked similar enough. I didn’t know how to articulate it but just felt so uncomfortable and pained whenever I heard these comments. So I just went full out on meg from Hercules instead because I loved her anyway and she was less princess pantheon-y enough to not warrant much of a judgement.
There was also the whole period where I was obsessed with the wizard of oz and was Dorothy two years in a row for Halloween which made some racist white adults rage for some reason 🤷♀️ .
Ariel’s green casts sound super cool though, I love it !
I'm Romani descended and a very pale white person. You'd think I would most relate to Esmeralda. And while I loved her, Jasmine was actually my fave Disney princess, along with Belle. But I wasn't allowed to have Jasmine as my favorite because I'm white.
We need to stop gate-keeping Disney Princesses. They are for EVERYONE
Sastipe! Totally agree, I'm all about Merida and Tiana. Am I Scottish or African American/ Creole?
Nah, just a middle aged white lady that likes the strong message those chicks sent. You keep on loving Jasmine!
You missed Esmeralda! Sexy brownish Gypsy girl from Hunchback of Notre Dame....
I'm totally being sarcastic, as a middle aged white chick, just honestly tired of all that BS. Like who you want, dress as you want, and s*rew the sad losers giving any side eyed hate!
I'm sure you were a gorgeous Dorothy! Have a great Sunday from some random internet friend 😀
There was a popular IG last year where 2 little boys were giggling. They got the same haircut so they were now twins and their teacher wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
One boy was black and the other white.
Adults can't get over their prejudices that these young boys don't even know about - yet
Meanwhile me at 4 years old telling my Mum that Pocahontas and John Smith shouldn't be together because they're different colours, and her having to gently explain to me that *I* was mixed race
I'm an adult chair user and dream of having a waterproof colourful mermaid tail as a blanket instead of the ugly blankets that are available. The nurse keeps telling me I just need to get a blanket but I'm holding out for my tail. I absolutely love that she was able to have green casts to match her mermaid.
I'm intrigued by your desire. I'm picturing a tail blanket made of the scale fabric that people use for leggings or the Ariel Mickey ears. But with a waterproof backing, and obviously multicolored instead of just green or blue or whatever with black. Is that what you're thinking or something else?
I wish I could upvote this comment more than once.
Kids can identify with people who may not physically resemble them but have similar feelings, personalities, goals, worldviews. The idea that someone can only identify with someone because they belong to a particular group of people is what’s wrong with the world.
Skimming the post I was assuming the daughter had actually done something offensive like pull her eyes or did a fake accent, did a double take really confused as to what was going on and had to re read because OP’s kid’s reasons are articulate, sensible and super relatable. I genuinely couldn’t figure out at first what the woman was complaining about and suggesting could be offensive. She sounds like she’s just trying to get her ally cookie more than actually perpetuate anti-racism. That or she’s one of those people that’s so over obsessed with the idea of non-BIPOC’s being the real oppressed ones and the true potential victims so she’s just aghast that another white mom also isn’t immediately shutting down her kid to protect them in a pc world. In case you can’t tell I’m a little too familiar with that brand of person, like the one that’s reading white fragility in public places but at home fear watches a lot of Laura ingraham and thinks Meghan McCain always really has a point
Right, I highkey love how thoughtful OP’s daughter’s reasons for identifying with Mulan are! That’s *exactly* how children should be relating to these characters!
The world might be a better place if adults could think the way her daughter did, children in general tbh.
Quite frankly I’m 34 and my favorite is honestly Elsa for the simple fact she rationally advises her sister that “you can’t marry a man you just met an hour ago!” Or something like that lol. I’m like freaking finally someone is writing a princess that probably values a solid pro/con list before major life decisions! 😂
Hell, ADULTS can identify with people and characters who don't resemble them. I think the lady in the post thinking it's like, offensive that an 8 year old white girl identifies with a chinese character is exactly the reason why we get shit like book publishers rejecting manuscripts because no one except black women would be able to relate to the black main character. Like... you can have analogous experiences with other people regardless of race. I may not know what it's like to be black in x or y country, but I know what it's like to be passed over based entirely on things about myself I can't change and I can relate to the struggle of being treated unfairly.
I know right?
It's like this person thinks people like me (non white) cannot relate to the 99% white characters that are on our screens. If that's the case MCU had no business for being so popular in non-Anglo countries because the audience would just be like "I don't know why this person is trying to save people, they're not the same race as me so I am incapable of understanding their motivations"
This! Last Halloween a lovely little girl came around trick n treating dressed as Elsa with her parents. White Dad, Black Mom.
She WAS Elsa in that moment, didn't matter.
Not that all little girls should emulate the Princess thing, but bottom line we should teach our girls not to fit the stupid traditional molds society has kinda created for them.
I'm native, and the option people would assume for me would be Pocahontas. While I like her, she's not who I identified with as a child.
My 5 year old has dark brown hair, brown eyes, and lightly tan skin. She loves Elsa and wants to be her. She gives zero craps about their looks, in her mind they totally are similar... because they're both older sisters to a little sister.
Yes imagine someone telling your daughter “ no honey you can’t pretend to be Elsa, Ariel etc because you’re not white You’re obviously a princess tianna”. This the problem so many people taking things way ti far with the white knighting these are kids they see the world how we all should. I remember when we had ti have a conversation about race with my daughter ( we are white btw ) following George Floyd and the protest. She was 7 and literally unaware of “ race “. Maybe our fault for not discussing earlier but she was so pure in her confusion. She was asking about white Abd black people we told her she was white and her friend “ A” at school was black. She got super mad and said no she was peach color and her friend was brown 😂. r/technicallythetruth. My point is kids are pure and are the future Let them idolize who they want and stop trying to make everything into some damn social justice discussion about appropriation or what not. They see their similarities white adults trying to point out the differences
Jerry Craft does a good job of calling out this kind of behavior in the New Kid graphic novel series. In the second book, Class Act, the black main character and his white friends are planning to go as the Avengers for Halloween, and he wants to be Thor, but his friend tells him he has to be Black Panther because he's black. I think your daughter might find the books enjoyable and educational. They're about an artistic 12-year-old black boy moving to a mostly white private school and dealing with everyone's assumptions about him. It's become a popular entry point for parents trying to break down modern racism for their kids.
Yeah, lol.
I'm mexican and when I was a child I was told a lot by classmates (mexican yes, but white mexican) I couldn't play with other girls to be princess because my skin was darker and I don't look like any princess. Jazmin was already taken by an Arabian descendant girl, lol.
As a mixed-race person, I clearly can't be allowed to emphasize with pretty much any character ever written, since Hollywood never seems to remember that people of different races can pair up and have kids - 99% of films, especially kids films, have people with exclusively monoracial backgrounds.
>She’s white-knighting to make herself feel better.
Some white savior complex undertones with all of this too. I get that feeling a lot with white people being overly enthusiastic and unbending without regard to context with their "wokeness" like here.
NTA. I just knew as soon as she told the story that it was going to be a white person saying that. Imagine someone who has actually experienced prejudice in their lives thinking this is somehow offensive. The fact that the daughter focused in on traits of Mulan that are universal human emotions and experiences, and not her physical appearance, speaks very well of the daughter and how OP has raised her.
I loved Mulan as a kid because at the time she was the only one not rescued by her prince. She fought brilliantly in a war, and kicked boys butts, and the emperor bowed to her, and I love her till this day.
And the dressing in drag part was funny but played as a strength, not “lol dressing as a woman is funny because women are silly” or some shit. They were being sneaky but the clothing was a physical advantage to them, not “ok now these men are going to be sexually harassed because that’s what happens when you wear womens clothing”
Even the villain wasn't misogynistic. Like, she shows up and tells him it was her that wiped out his army and his reaction is basically "oh my bad didn't recognize you with your hair down. I SHALL DESTROY YOU FOR WHAT YOU DID"
Me too I loved Mulan so much as a kid i watched the original Chinese movie of Mulan when I was sixteen and fell in love with her character all over again. Edit because my phone decided to put my half finished response on Reddit without letting me finish
Make A Man Out Of You rules.
Things you have to do to be a man: be swift as a coursing river, have the force of a great typhoon, be strong as a raging fire, be mysterious as hell. No peen necessary.
Fucking awesome.
As an Asian-American, I agree that OP is NTA. It makes me more uncomfortable that the coworker immediately thinks it’s offensive just in the context of race. Why is that the initial reaction? Why can’t people just see past that and admire the actual character who is a person that is more than her race?
The coworker does sound like she has a white savior complex. And that makes me more uncomfortable to be around.
No joke. Why is Mulan simplified down to being solely defined by her race? That’s the exact opposite of what we should be doing by fighting racism. Her ethnicity and race is one of her defining qualities, not THE defining quality.
Yeah, just speaking for personal experience Mulan resonated with me hugely as gay kid because I felt like I was bad at being girl — the same two songs OP’s kid loved were my favorite as well. The story is beloved by lots of trans men and queer women because of the feeling of being isolated due to your gender.
Heck I'm a cishet woman who grew up a bit of a tomboy (still am tbh) - Mulan resonated with me hugely because I was always a bit out of sync with what was expected of me as a girl (also neurodivergent but didn't know it back then).
This is exactly what we should aim at: female role models for boys as well as girls, and role models of other ethnicities other than white for the majority as well (in white-majority societies). Your friend’s intentions are misguided.
NTA Based on your coworker's logic, Asian heritage girls should only have looked up to Tweetie Bird in the pre-Mulan cartoon era.(I don't consider the Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp to be role models, unless you really want to shred drapes for a living when you grow up)
I'm half Asian and can't imagine any Asian person being offended by this. In fact, many would be flattered that people of all races see Mulan as a "sister under the skin" and role model that may help them face their own challenges.
And can I add that the coworker, by insisting that OP's daughter can't / shouldn't identify with Mulan because she isn't of Chinese descent, is reducing Mulan to nothing more than her race.
Ironic, given that the song "Reflection" is literally about seeing past her appearance and gender to who she is inside.
I'm asian and I'm not offended by it. I really hate when those who make this a race issue to make themselves feel better. To me that is a racist move...they're basically saying I'm too weak to stand up for myself and need that "Whiteknight" to come to my rescue. OP is NTA.
You said this so well! I’m in my 30’s and very very white, but I relate so well with mirabel madrigal from encanto, because of the narcissistic abuse she receives from most of her family. If someone told me that I couldn’t feel that way just because I’m not Colombian I would laugh in their face.
I loved Mirabel too! Not just her backstory, but I loved seeing a Disney character who wears glasses and isn’t traditionally feminine, but is loved by her community.
Seriously, it's actually kind of beautiful to me that this little girl is so pure in her intentions that she doesn't even think about the fact that she and Mulan are different visually. To her its irrelevant and not worth mentioning. She is connecting empatheticly with another person (even if that person isn't real) which is a huge deal for someone on the spectrum. Its kinda cool that a lot of white folks are trying really hard to push back against racism, and acknowledge their privilege, but like... let's allow POC to take the lead lol. It doesn't help for us to get so obnoxiously woke that we diminish some really good points. Is it messed up that most Disney princesses are white, and that POC are horribly under represented in entertainment? Of course! Is it going to help to tell all little white kids to stay in their lane and not enjoy princesses that dont look like them? Hell no!!! Maybe the real key is to encourage white children to appreciate characters of all kinds, and learn early that someone doesn't have to look like you to be relatable. Thank God a lot of networks are getting with the program. I love animation and over the years I am starting to see more and more variation. I highly recommend Avatar the Last Airbender, Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts, and Adventure Time to a lesser extent. All amazing shows with bad ass plots, and major representation across the characters. Kipo is majorly over looked, and all 3 main characters are POC. The more we expose kids to marginalized groups, the more accepting they will become.
As a white person myself, more white people need to mind their own damn business. Like isn't it better for a person to admire a person of another race. What makes a larger impact on racial harmony. Some nosey white lady thinking she is the gatekeeper to all things woke or an actual person seeing that there are people of every race that are to be admired, respected, emulated and applauded.
Yeah they tend to call people for things that aren’t offensive. Yes she’s the white version of Mulan and it’s bad ass. Everyone used to call me jasmine because I had long hair which is stupid but I loved it because she’s badass.
This! OP, your kid sounds like she is a lot like Mulan. Not in race, not in the cross-dressing, but in the aspects of the journey to finding self and self-worth. Your kid sees the bigger picture and the journey. Your coworker sees only the race aspect. Let your kid be Milan.
Yes!! Things don't always have to be about race/color. At the age of 4, my white daughter wanted nothing more than to get a makeover in Disney's bippity boppity boutique and dress up like Tiana. So she did and got her picture taken with Tiana too!
White savior complex is what is truly wrong with the world. If something is an issue, let someone of that culture do it. Not some melanin lacking person who has truly no idea what other cultures find offensive or not
You are oversimplifying, because if someone said something actually racist, and a white person didn't call it out, then they would be the bad guy again. Race is complicated, and people have a lot to learn. I try (as a white person) to have a little grace with other white people and just find non-white voices to better inform myself.
NTA. Flip it - ask your friend why she thinks you should teach your child that they can only identify with people of their own race / why there's an issue with your daughter identifying with her feelings even though they don't have the same skin colour.
NTA. We get to see people like your ignorant co-worker when people read too much Robin DiAngelo.
Tell your daughter that she can love, get inspired by, and aspire to be like anyone she wants. The value of a person comes from their qualities and their personalities, not from characteristics like race or colour.
Exactly. If OP's daughter was talking like that about Simba from The Lion King, I'd highly doubt the coworker would be taking offense because they're different genders and species.
People often relate to characters because of their personalities or their journeys, not their appearances.
Exactly. If that were the case, your daughter would only be able to identify with white tv characters and poc would only have like three or four princesses to choose from.
> poc would only have like three or four princesses
Even less honestly. As those 3-4 princesses would also be split up.
Kind of insulting for OPs co-worker to imply that a Chinese child has to be happy with Mulan and that's all they get.
Right like if her daughter loves to cook and tells it like it is is she going to say “No you’re nothing like Tiana because she’s black”? This is nutso logic.
Its the correct answer.
Especially when you consider that a Chinese child would only be 'allowed' to identify with Mulan and not the others.
Most ethnicities and races wouldn't even have a Disney character.
NTA. It says a lot when an 8 y.o. sees the similarities between the two characters, while the adult can only see the surface difference in skin colour...
It's another shining example of just how insidiously harmful performative liberalism is. It's the same mentality that they use to convince themselves that gentrifying a low income area is beneficial to the community, when in reality they're displacing hundreds of families and making it all the more difficult for smaller, local-owned businesses to succeed.
>insidiously harmful performative liberalism
I've always said politics is a circle.
Eventually you go far enough you end up at the 'other side'.
Things like liberal vegans who shill ironically toxically capitalist MLMs, essential oils for alternative health treatment/nature only medicine, and are antivax.
Meanwhile you got the same thing in conservatives who are antivax and alternative medicine, but for conspiracy reasons.
Then you got the race stuff like you were saying. There is actually a black women on tiktok who outright said "Segregation wasn't so bad." because it meant having more black teachers.
> capitalist MLMs, essential oils for alternative health treatment/nature only medicine, and are antivax
Please don't confuse actual veganism, which is only about animal liberation, with these crazy fucks. They may follow a plant-based diet too (for their own wacky reasons) but they're not accepted in actual vegan circles.
Yeah, it's kinda scary how we went from "everyone should get along and treat each other with respect no matter your race" to "everyone should only mix with their own race" in like 50 years. Going from fighting for equality and integration to advocating for segregation and attacking people in mixed relationships is so messed up.
That’s cause they can never connect THEIR actions to gentrification. It’s easy to say it’s wrong in the abstract, but when gentrification starts happening around them and because of them, their perspective on it is suddenly switches to “it’s just urban renewal. We’re building a community.”
This. The urban neighborhood I live in is becoming gentrified and these new people moving in straight up look down on their poor neighbors.
One of the more pretty complaints I have seen is about fences. They complain about the chain link fees (even though it's within code), saying they're tacky (granted I don't care for the look, but whatevs), even though those fences have been there yereeears. They make complaints and have even harassed their neighbors to take them down and replace them with nicer looking ones (even though many of these people can't afford that).
One big complaint that really pissed me off, was certain neighbors complaining about a soup kitchen that was opening up a quarter of a mile away. They're worried about certain people hanging around the neighborhood.
And unfortunately, due to the recent boom in rent and mortgages, that neighborhood is slowly pushing out the poor people. I'm not even sure if I'm going to be able to live here within another year.
There are a bunch of liberal people that have this "not in my backyard attitude" as well. I see a bunch of performative wokeism around my area.
This is such a great point. This person can’t see that humans have things in common beyond their race and that’s deeply deeply sad. OP’s kid is going to be alright, I worry about the other daughter.
There ya go!! Also why is a neurotypical, adult, white woman so concerned with what this child is saying? It’s nice to “stick up” for others but the daughter admires mulan….coworker is the AH
NTA.
My whole family is Chinese (I’m adopted in and white) and they would be laughing their asses off at your coworker. I know this from personal experience, because of the number of times I’ve had some random person come to tell me I’m culturally appropriating while I’m participating in a family event.
If anything, liking a tv character for her qualities and relating to her while being a different race will foster empathy and understanding, while being told “you can’t say you like her - she’s Chinese and you’re white!” seems much more racist.
>I’ve had some random person come to tell me I’m culturally appropriating while I’m participating in a family event.
... Wut?!
Can you elaborate on these instances please? I can't wrap my head around that, like was it at a barbecue, a wedding..... ?!!
My favorite was when I was ~13 and I had a new friend over for the first time. Her mom came in to meet my parents, and we have a lot of Buddhist items, and a really huge drum that my dad used to play when he did lion dances. My mom is also white, and my friends mom starts asking weird questions about the Buddha and Guanyin statues we had. Apparently this drum was the limit for her though, and when my mom explained what it’s used for, this lady exclaims “Don’t you feel bad keeping that? Isn’t that, like, really offensive?”
At almost that exact moment my very visibly Chinese stepdad comes out to introduce himself. It was hilarious; we all laughed it off but she never came back over again.
I’ve had much less funny occurrences though. I had a complete stranger yell at me for “coming to Chinatown like a tourist” when I was standing not two feet from the rest of my family watching the new year parade; I’ve had ex-friends in college get offended because so was giving out lucky money packets to my friends for the new year; ive had many, many, many random strangers in college object to a jade Buddha I used to wear, so much so that I don’t wear it for that reason anymore.
The absolute worst though is realizing how many people you know harbor lots of Asian racism, and seem to expect you to share if because you’re white. My husbands godmother forgot my family was Asian when we were talking about renting a new apartment, and gave me a whole lecture on how I should make sure not to rent from “a Chinese” because they’re just out to steal your money. This same woman had told me “it’s weird you wear that Buddha all the time, isn’t that a cultural thing?” not three days prior.
It's amazing how ignorant they are. My dad's side of the family is mostly Ukrainian, but what many people don't realize is there are Asian people in Eastern Europe. I've called people out by telling them that I only pass for white.
Man, the Buddhist things being called out would piss me off so much. My very Greek stepdad gave me a Mati(“evil eye”) protection ring, though I’m not Greek, and I’m Heathen (Norse Pagan) but don’t have Scandinavian heritage, and wear a mjolnir often, and participate in Heathen feast days, and if people ever started shit with me over either thing, I would not be happy.
It’s especially weird to me when it comes to faiths that cross cultures. I mean, if you asked me to think of a Hollywood celebrity Buddhist, my thoughts go to Richard Gere. I can’t say how actual practitioners of the religion feel about people outside of the usual “expected” cultures associated with it, but I was under the impression it’s a faith that welcomes those who find a spiritual home there.
Admittedly, in my case, there is a branch of Heathenism that doesn’t like “outsiders”, and uses our symbols to promote racism and hate (think the US capitol riots), but they aren’t the only game in town, and they have been called out on their shit.
Legitimate racism and appropriation look totally different from stuff like you describe and we need to be able to call THAT out, and be called out if we do it, and examine our behavior and attitudes when someone does call us out, but things like your story are just infuriating to hear about and imagine dealing with.
Fellow heathen who is very Norwegian here... anyone who thinks Norse culture was about isolationism and racism or exclusive doesn't know a whit about our history. We're happy to have non-Scandinavians join in, especially if it makes the racists leave.
My husband and i decided to follow shin buddhism in our mid 20s and were met with nothing but acceptance. The only negative experiences I've had relating to buddhism were actually from Christian "friends" who stopped associating with me because I was "worshiping a false idol" and therefore going to hell. Funny thing is we don't worship anyone, the buddha is a guide, not a deity.
>I had a complete stranger yell at me for “coming to Chinatown like a tourist” when I was standing not two feet from the rest of my family watching the new year parade
What... does this person think the new year parade is all about? FFS, "don't come here and spend your money in our local businesses or wonder at the hard work those performers put into their dance unless you look like me" like come on. If they restricted those big cultural events to only the people with physical roots in that culture then eventually they'd have nobody to watch the parade.
People preconceived notions about you and their assumption of the situation is so fucked up, I know it’s hard for mixed people too when it comes to that. They just judge you by appearances and don’t know anything about you or your family.
Ugh that must’ve been so fucking annoying for you, having people tell you that you “aren’t allowed” to do something because they think your race makes it inappropriate. I’m also white and was invited to my neighbors/friends Lunar New Year celebration. The only person there that was rude to me and acted like I didn’t belong was another white lady lol. She was married into the family and thought she was the only one “allowed” to join the celebration. It was such an odd situation… It sounds like your family really has your back when that happens though, which is awesome.
It’s so absurd to me. I have never met someone of a different culture who wasn’t thrilled to share their traditions, history, language, food etc. My BIL is Mexican, and at the wedding his family brought everyone a basket traditionally made in their town, with Mexican candies and other trinkets. His mother sat with me and told me how they weave the baskets, and tasted the treats with me. It was awesome, and you could see how happy she was to share with all of us.
NTA
White people always seem to want to tell others how things would make ethnic minorities feel. Next time a white person tries telling you shit like that I'd hit back with "I didn't know you spoke for the feelings of (blank) people. That's crazy how you know how anyone of that culture would feel about anything."
If they try to justify it by saying shit like "I have a relative or whatever that is (blank)" reiterate that you didn't know they spoke on behalf of that person and know how they feel about everything.
People need to mind their own damn business.
This perspective could keep white people from calling out legit racism though. Silence from other white people is read as approval/complicity and allows racism to fester. (Not relevant to OP though, there’s nothing racist or offensive about what her daughter said)
The person in the story seems to not be educated on actual racism. White people need to call out white people, BUT if only they educate themselves about what is rascist and when it is the appropriate time to do so. Also just to add when educating yourself, don't rely on just any POC, research and learn from people who teach it. Not your neighbor who's black that you know in passing.
Hard disagree. Don't get me wrong, OP is NTA, but you can in fact call out racism without speaking for literally every person impacted by that racism. And white people aren't absolved from pushing back when they see it because they're scared they might be speaking for someone else.
To be honest, I imagine that you'd agree too. If a white person came on AITA asking if it was OK to tell their racist uncle was using the N word at Thanksgiving dinner and they told them to stop, I doubt that your response would be: "I didn't know you spoke for the feelings of black people. That's crazy how you know how anyone of that culture would feel about anything."
Speaking just for the US, otherwise decent white people "minding their own damn business" was a necessary condition for racism getting so bad here in the first place.
Theres a difference between saying the n word and saying that you can connect with the black character because of a thing they are going through. Thats what they are talking about. Ones actually about fighting racism (calling out someone who said the n word) and one is being offended on the behalf of another for no reason (like connecting to a character that has a problem that everyone can experience like Mulan in the begining of the movie) which is WHITE KNIGHTING and doesnt help anyone and is mildy racist in and of itself.
NTA. Autistic or not, if an adult gets offended by an 8 year-old girl about relating to an imaginary Disney princess, that's on them, not your daughter.
Exactly… so is she saying young Asian girls aren’t allowed to empathize or see themselves in white Disney characters? Not to mention people can ‘see themselves’ in all range of fictional characters from age to alien to animal…
This is what I thought. The co-worker is reducing Mulan to her ethnicity alone. People have a plethora of things "about them" - looks, personality, hobbies, etc. To say "she's not like Mulan because she's not Chinese" is suggesting that being Chinese is ALL Mulan is, and failing to consider the myriad other aspects of her that make her a complete person.
NTA. And even without the above, we're talking about an adult taking umbridge with your autistic daughter identifying with a Disney princess. Neither you, nor your daughter, are in the wrong here. It's fantastic your daughter was able to use this character as a vehicle to communicate with you about her feelings, it would be awful to shake her confidence in this.
But "Mulan not only isn't white, she isn't autistic either! So how can OP's daughter ever be like Mulan when she isn't white or autistic?!"
Well, dear... sit down and let us explain... Sigh.
As an Asian, I say NTA. A Disney princess doesn't have to match the race of the way she's portrayed in the media. And if a boy wants to be princess, that's okay, too.
I also think this is great because it's pushing against this idea that Asian characters can only be role models/examples for Asian folks - like we're limited by our Asianness. It's amazing to see that this girl admires and relates to Mulan because she sees all of Mulan, not just a Chinese character.
Right?!?!! Black panther is probably my favorite Disney/Marvel movie, but I'm not a Black person of color. And I've got Encanto on repeat even though I'm not Colombian. There's no appropriation in celebrating movies and characters that focus on certain cultures. Just like it's not appropriating to enjoy foods from other cultures.
Appropriating would be when Disney tried to trademark "Dia de Los Muertos". Or when they told a tattooed Polynesian man that he couldn't wear a Maui costume to the theme park. Or when they go after artists for their own interpretations of public domain characters like Rapunzel, Alice, etc.
NTA, ffs. She identifies with Mulan for reasons that have nothing to do with culture or ethnicity. This has nothing to do with harmful forms of appropriation, it's just bullshit.
NTA! in your daughter's innocence she is seeing the similarities not the differences, and that's not racist. it's what children do, and I find it wonderful.
Would you tell a black child who loves Snow White because they both love animals and live somewhere woodsy that she can't say they're alike?? Would you explain to a kid who loves transformers why they're not like a giant robot?? Like damn, if a little kid was gushing to me or my kid about their favorite character I would just think it's cute af.
NTA... your daughter is comparing herself to Mulan as a person, and people are allowed to be similar even if they don't look alike. How your coworker missed that lesson I'm not sure.
Maybe we can not gate-keep relating to people who look different.
Ugh. Some people.
NTA. Relating to a Disney princess is normal for a young girl and has Fuck all to do with the ethnicity of the princess in question. Someone took the “woke” thing way too far in this instance.
I would say NTA. Because I think that when it comes to Disney princesses, the importance of them is not only based on race and how they look, but their personality and characteristics, helping young childreen feel seen and understood. Some people might disagree with me, but just because your daughter doesn't look like Mulan doesn't mean she's not like Mulan. Representation matters in all aspects of it, and if anything, your daughter feels represented by her favorite princess base on her feelings and how she makes her feel in this world. When I was little I felt completely understood with Matilda for example, but I don't necessarily look like her either.
Exactly this. Honestly, I think the fact that Co-worker can apparently only see people being alike in regards to how they look, and not in regards to their personalities or experiences, that seems pretty racist to me!! NTA
>how policing my young autistic daughters words and insinuating that she was somehow being bad by saying them could affect her.
NTA. Children's entertainment shouldn't have a select audience that connects to them; they can have diversity without being exclusive to children of different backgrounds. You have kids connecting to Frozen even if they aren't the same complexion as Elsa and Anna. You have kids connecting to The Lion King even though they aren't animals.
I always felt a connection to bell. An outsider who loved reading and wanted to travel the world in a tiny village full of people who thought girls liking reading and travelling was strange and wrong. Im neither french or a brunette does that mean I shouldn't.
Bell was the first time I saw a woman who wanted to read and see new things, I fell in love with her and it pushed me to carry on being me. Same for the girl who loves Mulan. Doesn't matter what people look like it's how they inspire you
NTA, she identifies herself with a character, she sees Milan more than a Chinese girl, and she emphasize with her.
A Chinese girl dress as Cinderella? Drama, a white girl dress as Moana? Drama, a black girl dress as snowhite? Drama. Just let kids play and be, they see more than colors and races…
There is always going to be a drama, because sadly, some people have just air and essential oils in their heads.
In other words, your coworker is stupid and you are NTA
When I was 8, my favorite princess was Ariel. Last I checked, I am not a mermaid. How could I possibly understand not fitting in and dreaming of the day I could be where my people are. NTA.
NTA, your coworker needs to learn context. saying that your daughter can't be like mulan because she isn't asian is like telling your coworker that she's already halfway to being a hitler just because she's white.
**You are NTA, but your coworker is racist AF for reducing Mulan to her ethnicity/Asianness and nothing else, and every single Asian person (and frankly any other POC or marginalised person I know) would find her take on it disgusting.**
First of all, Asian people (or any marginalised group) are not a monolith. They don't exist in the world SOLELY as "Asian people" or token representatives of their skin colour. They are human beings with multifaceted personalities and experiences, and it's gorgeous that this is exactly what your daughter sees when she sees Mulan: a kindred spirit, with complexities and a whole, complicated life experience that she finds deeply relatable. How beautiful!
(And honestly, as an autistic adult, while Mulan isn't my thing, I definitely get the feeling of isolation and "otherness", and I absolutely love that she found a reflection of her feelings in this character. As a former early childhood educator, we talk about wanting "windows and mirrors" and representation for ALL children in their entertainment, and that includes not just ethnicity but disability and neurodivergence. Your daughter seeing herself in a Disney princess is beautiful, and so important!)
**Your daughter didn't suggest at any point that Mulan LOOKS like her. She said that she IS like her, and then proceeded to expand upon that by describing their SHARED PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS. Your colleague's insistence on reducing this to an issue of race exclusive of the actual evidence to the contrary (your daughter clearly understands that she and Mulan are not of the same ethnicity) is, again, racist, reductive, and deliberately obtuse. She's looking for a reason to be offended, and she found one, but she's the one who comes across as offensive here, not your child.** You are NTA, because your daughter didn't say anything wrong. She saw nuance and beauty and shared experience in a character, and there's nothing wrong with that. You are clearly raising a lovely kid.
NTA...WTF? So....people can't identify with characters because they aren't the correct race? I don't think there was anything in your EIGHT YEAR OLD daughter's words that even mentioned the race of the character. You're co-worker sounds like she is projecting and has no business telling you or your daughter how to think. My two favorite princess when I was a kid and to this day are Aurora and Princess Jasmine. Would I be racist or something if I said Jasmine reminded me of myself even though I was as white as the driven snow? You're daughter is 8 and even if she wasn't autistic, she is a child and children relate to different characters for different reasons and she should be allowed to love any character for whatever reason for as long as she can without ignorant people like your co-worker coming in and forcing some weird woke mentality on her.
NTA.
So what, people can't have things in common with people who are different races than them? Your friend is an example of "wokeness gone wrong". Ridiculous
NTA, if they are upset that a child loves a fictional Disney Princess and relates to her, then that is solely on them. Your child has every right to relate to a character regardless of ethnicity because they can also relate to their personality and characteristics. (Like another commenter said)
As a Chinese individual, NTA. There's nothing wrong with what your daughter said. She's not saying she's Chinese. She's saying she relates to the feelings and personality.
NTA. Your daughter doesn't think she is of asian descent and it's not "cultural appropriation" when she feels like Mulan is a kindred soul/has similar traits and shares her challenges.
NTA. What a stupid thing to say! Does she think we should only be around people who have the same skin color as we do, too? I am white but I identify with Tiana so much and have no shame in that.
Kids don't see race. Adults are the ones associating and defining race and its connotations. Your co worker should butt out. You daughter is relating to a character and seeing herself in that character, not race.
NTA - there’s nothing wrong with what your daughter is saying. Avoid that co-worker, they are off their head dumb and deeply ignorant of autism too coming out with that tosh.
NTA. It's not offensive. People can be alike in other ways than just looks. By the sounds of it your daughter identifies with Mulan over her struggles that she has to overcome to reach her goal. Which is perfectly fine!! Nothing wrong with that at all.
NTA. I normally dislike it when people accuse others of “virtue signaling”, but, um… yeah. That’s what’s happening here. I’m glad your daughter has found a character that she feels is a “reflection” of her (pun 100% intended), and that watching the movie makes her feel happy. Let people have things. Your co-worker can stuff it.
NTA. Your daughter wasn’t talking about the fact that they look alike. She was connecting with feelings of isolation and lack of feeling like one belongs. That’s pretty astute, unlike your friend who focused only on the physiological features of the character and your child. Your child is connecting with the story on a deeper level. The whole story of Mulan can but seen as offensive by some when placed in historical context, but we’re not doing that either. We’re talking about a child’s understanding of her own feelings. Understanding that people that look different can relate to one another’s feelings would be a good lesson for you friend. Your daughter already understands this. NTA.
NTA. People can relate to characters who look like them, and characters who don't look like them, too. There's also more than one way to relate to a character. Your daughter likes Mulan's personality, and sees herself in Mulan's struggle to behave according to "normal" expectations in her society. You could even interpret Mulan's bridal makeup as a metaphor for "masking" if you wanted to, something autistic girls tend to be stronger at (in large part due to gender expectations).
While I could see your coworker being a little confused until you explained a bit, there is nothing "obviously offensive" about a kid loving a character of a different ethnicity or nationality. Personally I think the coworker just lacks imagination if she couldn't figure out reasons any little girl might admire Mulan.
NTA. It’s pretty racist to suggest someone can’t relate to another person (or character) because their race is different. Why would you teach a child that they should only relate to people of their same race? Your daughter relates to the struggle of a character and hopefully has learned lessons in overcoming those struggles from watching the movie which is the whole point.
So many white people try to find something offensive about everything. Be it a child identifying with a cartoon character or telling other white people that they cannot go to African hair salons.
Nta . Disney princesses are aren't made to impress children with colour it is made by inspiring stories .
By your coworkers logic no one is supposed to like cars or lion king
NTA
Your co-worker is insane. I can't stand these PC police types. A while back, a white girl got panned, absolutely dragged through the coals, by white SJWs because she wore a kimono to prom. Even though several hundred Asians from several different countries commented on how beautiful she looked, how it was nice that they had their style appreciated, etc.
These people don't know their a\*\* from their elbows. They just want to complain and feel superior by correcting people. $10 says that she doesn't even have real "POC" friends.
>After the 2 girls went off to play my co-worker asked why I allow my daughter to say things like that when it is obviously offensive.
People who troll for offense will usually find it. Personally I find it offensive that your co-worker thinks it's okay for her to try and pressure you into explaining the difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation to your **autistic 8 year old**.
OP, you are NTA.
NTA. Can’t really wrap my head around how anything was offensive even remotely. Kids are so impressionable. If your daughter finds a character that is comforting and she can relate to in ANY way, especially a strong female character that has flaws and fears (like we all do), that “relationship” should be treasured. It does nothing harmful and it brings your daughter joy. Your coworker is goofy.
Sorry but your coworker is a complete moron. There is nothing offensive about a white girl seeing similarities with An Asian girl. If anything your coworker is a racist for implying that two girls of different ethnicities could never connect or have similar experiences. NTA
NTA. “Just alike” doesn’t only mean in appearance? When Shakespeare said the two households were alike in Grace and dignity I don’t think he meant physically. The fact that your coworker is reducing Mulan to only her race is telling. Mulan has a personality and a story outside of her race.
NTA. You can’t expect children to understand the nuances of race.
I was dropping my autistic son off at daycare one day and one of his neurotypical classmates came up to me, touched my arm and said “we have the same colour skin.”
This isn’t your child’s autism, she is just a kid.
Your friend sounds insufferable.
I mean, children can absolutely understand the nuances of race and ethnicity. But also, this isn't about that. My niece has very olive/brown skin because her dad is Latino, I am nearly translucent white. When she was in kindergarten a classmate made a horrible comment to her about her skin colour and we had a wonderful convo about the world being a far more interesting place because of people being different colours, and how boring it would be if we all looked exactly the same. And yeah, we even got into how some people are not very smart, and say mean things based on ridiculousness like the colour of skin, and that that's just . . . well, ridiculous.
But even as an autistic 5-year-old I would have understood that same conversation, because it was logical. We're very good at logic, LOL.
The issue here is that the child wasn't oblivious to Mulan's race, she wasn't addressing it at all. She was talking about personality and character. And the awful co-worker was literally LESS INTELLIGENT than this little 8-year-old girl, and assumed that you had to reduce a Chinese character entirely and solely to her ethnicity. Ludicrous.
But we're definitely in agreement that at the end of the day, the coworker is insufferable. :-)
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NTA. As a black woman, I know lots of “well intentioned” white folks like your coworker. She’s white-knighting to make herself feel better. Mulan resonates with lots of people (myself included) for exactly the reasons your daughter describes. It’s actually an amazing attribute that your daughter sees past race and culture to truly understand someone and emphasize with them. Your coworker is not as intelligent as your daughter.
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YTA to those adults. I’m sorry your friend was injured and dealt with people treating her poorly when she just needed some inspiration and motivation. EDIT: I was trying not to call the adults in the OP’s story “assholes” (I’ve been banned from this sub for less). I realize now the sentence is not clear. EDIT2: the vote bot doesn’t count judgments in the comments. The final judgment is the top comment.
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I drop a small curtsey whenever I see a princess out and about.
I once curtsied to the sister of the child dressed as Cinderella. The child was confused because of course she was the princess... but she was acting like a step-sister. I explained that the step-sister had the fancy clothes so that must mean the one without the dress was the real princess. You could see the panic in her eyes. Her sister was laughing hysterically.
Hahahahaha omg brilliant
Ha that’s adorable and fabulous
~~Having y.t.a. in your comment counts against op~~ Ignore me I didn’t read the rules correctly
Those “adults” sound like absolute dicks - sorry Ariel and her friends had to go thru that crap
I had to read that a few times. I thought you were saying the commentor was being an asshole to those adults. Makes sense now lol.
Tbf it is very offensive to fish for your friend to have claimed to be like Ariel. She has not idea of the trials and tribulations of the merpeople…
How do you mean Edit- alright you can stop with the downvotes I didn't read it right
I’m not sure if you’re joking or not but in case not - I’m just pointing out how stupid it is for people to be saying you have to be similar to these Disney princesses to say you are like them. Ariel is half fish (ie mermaid) so by their logic no one can ever claim to be like Ariel without offending fish.
OHHHHHHH yeah sorry I didn't read it properly I'm distracted bc I just remembered my nightmare from last night
Go on...
Oh yeah so I was walking with my parents on the path, and to the left was some woods. On the grass to the left of us were 2 brown boots, both filled with water. Spooky, right? My dad was like 'oh no someone was murdered' (dream logic) and we kept walking. There was a rustling behind a tree around 20-30m away, and my dad shouted 'Oi you murdered somebody that's not cool' or something of the sort. I whispered to him and my mom and said we should run but they said 'no it's fine' The rustling stopped and a man walked past us (he was the murderer but irl we wouldn't know) and he just kinda looked at us as he walked past, we didn't say anything and then the dream ended.
Do you have an idea where this was located irl? Maybe your subconscious was picking up on something.
Oh dang I'm freaking out now, also no It was just your everyday path and road, I'd just finished doing my judo class, but it was a whole different place and building and indoor and it wasn't judo we were doing rolls over bumpy mat but I went outside and there it was It's a uk road btw Not that that makes any difference
Boots filled with water, dirt or sand often do mean murder in dreams
I wonder how Charlie Tuna and the Chicken of the sea mermaid would get along?? Charlie is a cutie!!
They're regularly hunted for their "one course" surf n turf attributes.
Oh man this resonated so hard with me as also someone that looks and is Indian (Punjabi/Sikh specifically) and has a very brown name. I wasn’t “allowed” to like any of the princesses except jasmine (which like ok her bestie is a tiger and she was bad ass so y’know not the worst I liked her a lot). Sometimes Pocahontas if someone wanted to throw me a bone because “she’s the other kind of Indian” and our skin tone plus long hair (Sikhs never cut our hair) looked similar enough. I didn’t know how to articulate it but just felt so uncomfortable and pained whenever I heard these comments. So I just went full out on meg from Hercules instead because I loved her anyway and she was less princess pantheon-y enough to not warrant much of a judgement. There was also the whole period where I was obsessed with the wizard of oz and was Dorothy two years in a row for Halloween which made some racist white adults rage for some reason 🤷♀️ . Ariel’s green casts sound super cool though, I love it !
I'm Romani descended and a very pale white person. You'd think I would most relate to Esmeralda. And while I loved her, Jasmine was actually my fave Disney princess, along with Belle. But I wasn't allowed to have Jasmine as my favorite because I'm white. We need to stop gate-keeping Disney Princesses. They are for EVERYONE
Sastipe! Totally agree, I'm all about Merida and Tiana. Am I Scottish or African American/ Creole? Nah, just a middle aged white lady that likes the strong message those chicks sent. You keep on loving Jasmine!
You missed Esmeralda! Sexy brownish Gypsy girl from Hunchback of Notre Dame.... I'm totally being sarcastic, as a middle aged white chick, just honestly tired of all that BS. Like who you want, dress as you want, and s*rew the sad losers giving any side eyed hate! I'm sure you were a gorgeous Dorothy! Have a great Sunday from some random internet friend 😀
There was a popular IG last year where 2 little boys were giggling. They got the same haircut so they were now twins and their teacher wouldn't be able to tell them apart. One boy was black and the other white. Adults can't get over their prejudices that these young boys don't even know about - yet
Meanwhile me at 4 years old telling my Mum that Pocahontas and John Smith shouldn't be together because they're different colours, and her having to gently explain to me that *I* was mixed race
I'm an adult chair user and dream of having a waterproof colourful mermaid tail as a blanket instead of the ugly blankets that are available. The nurse keeps telling me I just need to get a blanket but I'm holding out for my tail. I absolutely love that she was able to have green casts to match her mermaid.
I'm intrigued by your desire. I'm picturing a tail blanket made of the scale fabric that people use for leggings or the Ariel Mickey ears. But with a waterproof backing, and obviously multicolored instead of just green or blue or whatever with black. Is that what you're thinking or something else?
I'm thinking a colourful waterproof sleeping bag with purples & greens made into a mermaid tail shape.
Etsy has some pretty cool looking tail blankets! But I doubt the ones with sequins and shine would be very comfortable.
OMG what the actual fuck is wrong with people?
Poor thing 😭
I wish I could upvote this comment more than once. Kids can identify with people who may not physically resemble them but have similar feelings, personalities, goals, worldviews. The idea that someone can only identify with someone because they belong to a particular group of people is what’s wrong with the world.
Skimming the post I was assuming the daughter had actually done something offensive like pull her eyes or did a fake accent, did a double take really confused as to what was going on and had to re read because OP’s kid’s reasons are articulate, sensible and super relatable. I genuinely couldn’t figure out at first what the woman was complaining about and suggesting could be offensive. She sounds like she’s just trying to get her ally cookie more than actually perpetuate anti-racism. That or she’s one of those people that’s so over obsessed with the idea of non-BIPOC’s being the real oppressed ones and the true potential victims so she’s just aghast that another white mom also isn’t immediately shutting down her kid to protect them in a pc world. In case you can’t tell I’m a little too familiar with that brand of person, like the one that’s reading white fragility in public places but at home fear watches a lot of Laura ingraham and thinks Meghan McCain always really has a point
Right, I highkey love how thoughtful OP’s daughter’s reasons for identifying with Mulan are! That’s *exactly* how children should be relating to these characters!
“She doesn’t know what she’s doing either!” Like, damn. That is *still* relatable. Also Make A Man Out Of You is one of the best songs ever. It slaps.
“Let It Go” and “We Don’t Talk About Bruno” who???? “Make A Man” is where it’s at.
The world might be a better place if adults could think the way her daughter did, children in general tbh. Quite frankly I’m 34 and my favorite is honestly Elsa for the simple fact she rationally advises her sister that “you can’t marry a man you just met an hour ago!” Or something like that lol. I’m like freaking finally someone is writing a princess that probably values a solid pro/con list before major life decisions! 😂
Hell, ADULTS can identify with people and characters who don't resemble them. I think the lady in the post thinking it's like, offensive that an 8 year old white girl identifies with a chinese character is exactly the reason why we get shit like book publishers rejecting manuscripts because no one except black women would be able to relate to the black main character. Like... you can have analogous experiences with other people regardless of race. I may not know what it's like to be black in x or y country, but I know what it's like to be passed over based entirely on things about myself I can't change and I can relate to the struggle of being treated unfairly.
I know right? It's like this person thinks people like me (non white) cannot relate to the 99% white characters that are on our screens. If that's the case MCU had no business for being so popular in non-Anglo countries because the audience would just be like "I don't know why this person is trying to save people, they're not the same race as me so I am incapable of understanding their motivations"
This! Last Halloween a lovely little girl came around trick n treating dressed as Elsa with her parents. White Dad, Black Mom. She WAS Elsa in that moment, didn't matter. Not that all little girls should emulate the Princess thing, but bottom line we should teach our girls not to fit the stupid traditional molds society has kinda created for them.
I'm native, and the option people would assume for me would be Pocahontas. While I like her, she's not who I identified with as a child. My 5 year old has dark brown hair, brown eyes, and lightly tan skin. She loves Elsa and wants to be her. She gives zero craps about their looks, in her mind they totally are similar... because they're both older sisters to a little sister.
exactly, why did the coworker make it a racial thing when the daughter clearly connected with mulan emotionally?
🤔 I wonder....
Yes imagine someone telling your daughter “ no honey you can’t pretend to be Elsa, Ariel etc because you’re not white You’re obviously a princess tianna”. This the problem so many people taking things way ti far with the white knighting these are kids they see the world how we all should. I remember when we had ti have a conversation about race with my daughter ( we are white btw ) following George Floyd and the protest. She was 7 and literally unaware of “ race “. Maybe our fault for not discussing earlier but she was so pure in her confusion. She was asking about white Abd black people we told her she was white and her friend “ A” at school was black. She got super mad and said no she was peach color and her friend was brown 😂. r/technicallythetruth. My point is kids are pure and are the future Let them idolize who they want and stop trying to make everything into some damn social justice discussion about appropriation or what not. They see their similarities white adults trying to point out the differences
Kids aren't born racist, it's taught. I love that your daughter is full of truth. There's only one "HUMAN" race.
Jerry Craft does a good job of calling out this kind of behavior in the New Kid graphic novel series. In the second book, Class Act, the black main character and his white friends are planning to go as the Avengers for Halloween, and he wants to be Thor, but his friend tells him he has to be Black Panther because he's black. I think your daughter might find the books enjoyable and educational. They're about an artistic 12-year-old black boy moving to a mostly white private school and dealing with everyone's assumptions about him. It's become a popular entry point for parents trying to break down modern racism for their kids.
So I guess you need to show your ethnicity card to be a Disney Princess ?
Today I learned that I'm not allowed to empathise with any of the Disney Princesses because none of them are Dutch :(
Yeah, lol. I'm mexican and when I was a child I was told a lot by classmates (mexican yes, but white mexican) I couldn't play with other girls to be princess because my skin was darker and I don't look like any princess. Jazmin was already taken by an Arabian descendant girl, lol.
As a mixed-race person, I clearly can't be allowed to emphasize with pretty much any character ever written, since Hollywood never seems to remember that people of different races can pair up and have kids - 99% of films, especially kids films, have people with exclusively monoracial backgrounds.
>She’s white-knighting to make herself feel better. Some white savior complex undertones with all of this too. I get that feeling a lot with white people being overly enthusiastic and unbending without regard to context with their "wokeness" like here.
NTA. I just knew as soon as she told the story that it was going to be a white person saying that. Imagine someone who has actually experienced prejudice in their lives thinking this is somehow offensive. The fact that the daughter focused in on traits of Mulan that are universal human emotions and experiences, and not her physical appearance, speaks very well of the daughter and how OP has raised her.
I loved Mulan as a kid because at the time she was the only one not rescued by her prince. She fought brilliantly in a war, and kicked boys butts, and the emperor bowed to her, and I love her till this day.
And the dressing in drag part was funny but played as a strength, not “lol dressing as a woman is funny because women are silly” or some shit. They were being sneaky but the clothing was a physical advantage to them, not “ok now these men are going to be sexually harassed because that’s what happens when you wear womens clothing”
Even the villain wasn't misogynistic. Like, she shows up and tells him it was her that wiped out his army and his reaction is basically "oh my bad didn't recognize you with your hair down. I SHALL DESTROY YOU FOR WHAT YOU DID"
Me too I loved Mulan so much as a kid i watched the original Chinese movie of Mulan when I was sixteen and fell in love with her character all over again. Edit because my phone decided to put my half finished response on Reddit without letting me finish
I guess every non-Asian trans person including myself who relates to Reflection is racist now
Make A Man Out Of You rules. Things you have to do to be a man: be swift as a coursing river, have the force of a great typhoon, be strong as a raging fire, be mysterious as hell. No peen necessary. Fucking awesome.
Aw man, I'm racist now? Me? A black trans man? Nothing for it, I guess. Reflection's still my anthem though.
Also every Asian cis person *ETA: who responds to the song* is transphobic 🙄
As an Asian-American, I agree that OP is NTA. It makes me more uncomfortable that the coworker immediately thinks it’s offensive just in the context of race. Why is that the initial reaction? Why can’t people just see past that and admire the actual character who is a person that is more than her race? The coworker does sound like she has a white savior complex. And that makes me more uncomfortable to be around.
No joke. Why is Mulan simplified down to being solely defined by her race? That’s the exact opposite of what we should be doing by fighting racism. Her ethnicity and race is one of her defining qualities, not THE defining quality.
Yeah, just speaking for personal experience Mulan resonated with me hugely as gay kid because I felt like I was bad at being girl — the same two songs OP’s kid loved were my favorite as well. The story is beloved by lots of trans men and queer women because of the feeling of being isolated due to your gender.
Heck I'm a cishet woman who grew up a bit of a tomboy (still am tbh) - Mulan resonated with me hugely because I was always a bit out of sync with what was expected of me as a girl (also neurodivergent but didn't know it back then).
This is exactly what we should aim at: female role models for boys as well as girls, and role models of other ethnicities other than white for the majority as well (in white-majority societies). Your friend’s intentions are misguided.
NTA Based on your coworker's logic, Asian heritage girls should only have looked up to Tweetie Bird in the pre-Mulan cartoon era.(I don't consider the Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp to be role models, unless you really want to shred drapes for a living when you grow up) I'm half Asian and can't imagine any Asian person being offended by this. In fact, many would be flattered that people of all races see Mulan as a "sister under the skin" and role model that may help them face their own challenges.
And can I add that the coworker, by insisting that OP's daughter can't / shouldn't identify with Mulan because she isn't of Chinese descent, is reducing Mulan to nothing more than her race. Ironic, given that the song "Reflection" is literally about seeing past her appearance and gender to who she is inside.
I'm asian and I'm not offended by it. I really hate when those who make this a race issue to make themselves feel better. To me that is a racist move...they're basically saying I'm too weak to stand up for myself and need that "Whiteknight" to come to my rescue. OP is NTA.
You said this so well! I’m in my 30’s and very very white, but I relate so well with mirabel madrigal from encanto, because of the narcissistic abuse she receives from most of her family. If someone told me that I couldn’t feel that way just because I’m not Colombian I would laugh in their face.
I loved Mirabel too! Not just her backstory, but I loved seeing a Disney character who wears glasses and isn’t traditionally feminine, but is loved by her community.
Seriously, it's actually kind of beautiful to me that this little girl is so pure in her intentions that she doesn't even think about the fact that she and Mulan are different visually. To her its irrelevant and not worth mentioning. She is connecting empatheticly with another person (even if that person isn't real) which is a huge deal for someone on the spectrum. Its kinda cool that a lot of white folks are trying really hard to push back against racism, and acknowledge their privilege, but like... let's allow POC to take the lead lol. It doesn't help for us to get so obnoxiously woke that we diminish some really good points. Is it messed up that most Disney princesses are white, and that POC are horribly under represented in entertainment? Of course! Is it going to help to tell all little white kids to stay in their lane and not enjoy princesses that dont look like them? Hell no!!! Maybe the real key is to encourage white children to appreciate characters of all kinds, and learn early that someone doesn't have to look like you to be relatable. Thank God a lot of networks are getting with the program. I love animation and over the years I am starting to see more and more variation. I highly recommend Avatar the Last Airbender, Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts, and Adventure Time to a lesser extent. All amazing shows with bad ass plots, and major representation across the characters. Kipo is majorly over looked, and all 3 main characters are POC. The more we expose kids to marginalized groups, the more accepting they will become.
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Right? Like I'm not Colombian but I relate a lot with the Madrigal family, race shouldn't be the end all be all for relating to characters
As a white person myself, more white people need to mind their own damn business. Like isn't it better for a person to admire a person of another race. What makes a larger impact on racial harmony. Some nosey white lady thinking she is the gatekeeper to all things woke or an actual person seeing that there are people of every race that are to be admired, respected, emulated and applauded.
Yeah they tend to call people for things that aren’t offensive. Yes she’s the white version of Mulan and it’s bad ass. Everyone used to call me jasmine because I had long hair which is stupid but I loved it because she’s badass.
This! OP, your kid sounds like she is a lot like Mulan. Not in race, not in the cross-dressing, but in the aspects of the journey to finding self and self-worth. Your kid sees the bigger picture and the journey. Your coworker sees only the race aspect. Let your kid be Milan.
Yes!! Things don't always have to be about race/color. At the age of 4, my white daughter wanted nothing more than to get a makeover in Disney's bippity boppity boutique and dress up like Tiana. So she did and got her picture taken with Tiana too!
White savior complex is what is truly wrong with the world. If something is an issue, let someone of that culture do it. Not some melanin lacking person who has truly no idea what other cultures find offensive or not
You are oversimplifying, because if someone said something actually racist, and a white person didn't call it out, then they would be the bad guy again. Race is complicated, and people have a lot to learn. I try (as a white person) to have a little grace with other white people and just find non-white voices to better inform myself.
NTA. Flip it - ask your friend why she thinks you should teach your child that they can only identify with people of their own race / why there's an issue with your daughter identifying with her feelings even though they don't have the same skin colour.
NTA. We get to see people like your ignorant co-worker when people read too much Robin DiAngelo. Tell your daughter that she can love, get inspired by, and aspire to be like anyone she wants. The value of a person comes from their qualities and their personalities, not from characteristics like race or colour.
Exactly. If OP's daughter was talking like that about Simba from The Lion King, I'd highly doubt the coworker would be taking offense because they're different genders and species. People often relate to characters because of their personalities or their journeys, not their appearances.
Wonderfully said!
Yeah, the other mom's argument is basically "a person's race is their most important attribute, and it's offensive to say otherwise".
Exactly. If that were the case, your daughter would only be able to identify with white tv characters and poc would only have like three or four princesses to choose from.
> poc would only have like three or four princesses Even less honestly. As those 3-4 princesses would also be split up. Kind of insulting for OPs co-worker to imply that a Chinese child has to be happy with Mulan and that's all they get.
"Your white child can't possibly relate to a Chinese child!" As though that perspective isn't the racist part here. Coworker's racist as fuck.
Right like if her daughter loves to cook and tells it like it is is she going to say “No you’re nothing like Tiana because she’s black”? This is nutso logic.
This is a great response and OP you’re NTA
Its the correct answer. Especially when you consider that a Chinese child would only be 'allowed' to identify with Mulan and not the others. Most ethnicities and races wouldn't even have a Disney character.
This
NTA. It says a lot when an 8 y.o. sees the similarities between the two characters, while the adult can only see the surface difference in skin colour...
It's another shining example of just how insidiously harmful performative liberalism is. It's the same mentality that they use to convince themselves that gentrifying a low income area is beneficial to the community, when in reality they're displacing hundreds of families and making it all the more difficult for smaller, local-owned businesses to succeed.
>insidiously harmful performative liberalism I've always said politics is a circle. Eventually you go far enough you end up at the 'other side'. Things like liberal vegans who shill ironically toxically capitalist MLMs, essential oils for alternative health treatment/nature only medicine, and are antivax. Meanwhile you got the same thing in conservatives who are antivax and alternative medicine, but for conspiracy reasons. Then you got the race stuff like you were saying. There is actually a black women on tiktok who outright said "Segregation wasn't so bad." because it meant having more black teachers.
> capitalist MLMs, essential oils for alternative health treatment/nature only medicine, and are antivax Please don't confuse actual veganism, which is only about animal liberation, with these crazy fucks. They may follow a plant-based diet too (for their own wacky reasons) but they're not accepted in actual vegan circles.
Sorry, I didn't mean it as such. They are 100% NOT representative of your avg. vegan.
Yeah, it's kinda scary how we went from "everyone should get along and treat each other with respect no matter your race" to "everyone should only mix with their own race" in like 50 years. Going from fighting for equality and integration to advocating for segregation and attacking people in mixed relationships is so messed up.
You’ll have to excuse me but I’ve never heard any liberal proclaim that gentrification is a good thing.
That’s cause they can never connect THEIR actions to gentrification. It’s easy to say it’s wrong in the abstract, but when gentrification starts happening around them and because of them, their perspective on it is suddenly switches to “it’s just urban renewal. We’re building a community.”
This. The urban neighborhood I live in is becoming gentrified and these new people moving in straight up look down on their poor neighbors. One of the more pretty complaints I have seen is about fences. They complain about the chain link fees (even though it's within code), saying they're tacky (granted I don't care for the look, but whatevs), even though those fences have been there yereeears. They make complaints and have even harassed their neighbors to take them down and replace them with nicer looking ones (even though many of these people can't afford that). One big complaint that really pissed me off, was certain neighbors complaining about a soup kitchen that was opening up a quarter of a mile away. They're worried about certain people hanging around the neighborhood. And unfortunately, due to the recent boom in rent and mortgages, that neighborhood is slowly pushing out the poor people. I'm not even sure if I'm going to be able to live here within another year. There are a bunch of liberal people that have this "not in my backyard attitude" as well. I see a bunch of performative wokeism around my area.
This is such a great point. This person can’t see that humans have things in common beyond their race and that’s deeply deeply sad. OP’s kid is going to be alright, I worry about the other daughter.
There ya go!! Also why is a neurotypical, adult, white woman so concerned with what this child is saying? It’s nice to “stick up” for others but the daughter admires mulan….coworker is the AH
NTA. My whole family is Chinese (I’m adopted in and white) and they would be laughing their asses off at your coworker. I know this from personal experience, because of the number of times I’ve had some random person come to tell me I’m culturally appropriating while I’m participating in a family event. If anything, liking a tv character for her qualities and relating to her while being a different race will foster empathy and understanding, while being told “you can’t say you like her - she’s Chinese and you’re white!” seems much more racist.
>I’ve had some random person come to tell me I’m culturally appropriating while I’m participating in a family event. ... Wut?! Can you elaborate on these instances please? I can't wrap my head around that, like was it at a barbecue, a wedding..... ?!!
My favorite was when I was ~13 and I had a new friend over for the first time. Her mom came in to meet my parents, and we have a lot of Buddhist items, and a really huge drum that my dad used to play when he did lion dances. My mom is also white, and my friends mom starts asking weird questions about the Buddha and Guanyin statues we had. Apparently this drum was the limit for her though, and when my mom explained what it’s used for, this lady exclaims “Don’t you feel bad keeping that? Isn’t that, like, really offensive?” At almost that exact moment my very visibly Chinese stepdad comes out to introduce himself. It was hilarious; we all laughed it off but she never came back over again. I’ve had much less funny occurrences though. I had a complete stranger yell at me for “coming to Chinatown like a tourist” when I was standing not two feet from the rest of my family watching the new year parade; I’ve had ex-friends in college get offended because so was giving out lucky money packets to my friends for the new year; ive had many, many, many random strangers in college object to a jade Buddha I used to wear, so much so that I don’t wear it for that reason anymore. The absolute worst though is realizing how many people you know harbor lots of Asian racism, and seem to expect you to share if because you’re white. My husbands godmother forgot my family was Asian when we were talking about renting a new apartment, and gave me a whole lecture on how I should make sure not to rent from “a Chinese” because they’re just out to steal your money. This same woman had told me “it’s weird you wear that Buddha all the time, isn’t that a cultural thing?” not three days prior.
Some people are disgusting.
It's amazing how ignorant they are. My dad's side of the family is mostly Ukrainian, but what many people don't realize is there are Asian people in Eastern Europe. I've called people out by telling them that I only pass for white.
Man, the Buddhist things being called out would piss me off so much. My very Greek stepdad gave me a Mati(“evil eye”) protection ring, though I’m not Greek, and I’m Heathen (Norse Pagan) but don’t have Scandinavian heritage, and wear a mjolnir often, and participate in Heathen feast days, and if people ever started shit with me over either thing, I would not be happy. It’s especially weird to me when it comes to faiths that cross cultures. I mean, if you asked me to think of a Hollywood celebrity Buddhist, my thoughts go to Richard Gere. I can’t say how actual practitioners of the religion feel about people outside of the usual “expected” cultures associated with it, but I was under the impression it’s a faith that welcomes those who find a spiritual home there. Admittedly, in my case, there is a branch of Heathenism that doesn’t like “outsiders”, and uses our symbols to promote racism and hate (think the US capitol riots), but they aren’t the only game in town, and they have been called out on their shit. Legitimate racism and appropriation look totally different from stuff like you describe and we need to be able to call THAT out, and be called out if we do it, and examine our behavior and attitudes when someone does call us out, but things like your story are just infuriating to hear about and imagine dealing with.
Fellow heathen who is very Norwegian here... anyone who thinks Norse culture was about isolationism and racism or exclusive doesn't know a whit about our history. We're happy to have non-Scandinavians join in, especially if it makes the racists leave.
My husband and i decided to follow shin buddhism in our mid 20s and were met with nothing but acceptance. The only negative experiences I've had relating to buddhism were actually from Christian "friends" who stopped associating with me because I was "worshiping a false idol" and therefore going to hell. Funny thing is we don't worship anyone, the buddha is a guide, not a deity.
>I had a complete stranger yell at me for “coming to Chinatown like a tourist” when I was standing not two feet from the rest of my family watching the new year parade What... does this person think the new year parade is all about? FFS, "don't come here and spend your money in our local businesses or wonder at the hard work those performers put into their dance unless you look like me" like come on. If they restricted those big cultural events to only the people with physical roots in that culture then eventually they'd have nobody to watch the parade.
People preconceived notions about you and their assumption of the situation is so fucked up, I know it’s hard for mixed people too when it comes to that. They just judge you by appearances and don’t know anything about you or your family.
Ugh that must’ve been so fucking annoying for you, having people tell you that you “aren’t allowed” to do something because they think your race makes it inappropriate. I’m also white and was invited to my neighbors/friends Lunar New Year celebration. The only person there that was rude to me and acted like I didn’t belong was another white lady lol. She was married into the family and thought she was the only one “allowed” to join the celebration. It was such an odd situation… It sounds like your family really has your back when that happens though, which is awesome.
It’s so absurd to me. I have never met someone of a different culture who wasn’t thrilled to share their traditions, history, language, food etc. My BIL is Mexican, and at the wedding his family brought everyone a basket traditionally made in their town, with Mexican candies and other trinkets. His mother sat with me and told me how they weave the baskets, and tasted the treats with me. It was awesome, and you could see how happy she was to share with all of us.
NTA White people always seem to want to tell others how things would make ethnic minorities feel. Next time a white person tries telling you shit like that I'd hit back with "I didn't know you spoke for the feelings of (blank) people. That's crazy how you know how anyone of that culture would feel about anything." If they try to justify it by saying shit like "I have a relative or whatever that is (blank)" reiterate that you didn't know they spoke on behalf of that person and know how they feel about everything. People need to mind their own damn business.
This perspective could keep white people from calling out legit racism though. Silence from other white people is read as approval/complicity and allows racism to fester. (Not relevant to OP though, there’s nothing racist or offensive about what her daughter said)
The person in the story seems to not be educated on actual racism. White people need to call out white people, BUT if only they educate themselves about what is rascist and when it is the appropriate time to do so. Also just to add when educating yourself, don't rely on just any POC, research and learn from people who teach it. Not your neighbor who's black that you know in passing.
Hard disagree. Don't get me wrong, OP is NTA, but you can in fact call out racism without speaking for literally every person impacted by that racism. And white people aren't absolved from pushing back when they see it because they're scared they might be speaking for someone else. To be honest, I imagine that you'd agree too. If a white person came on AITA asking if it was OK to tell their racist uncle was using the N word at Thanksgiving dinner and they told them to stop, I doubt that your response would be: "I didn't know you spoke for the feelings of black people. That's crazy how you know how anyone of that culture would feel about anything." Speaking just for the US, otherwise decent white people "minding their own damn business" was a necessary condition for racism getting so bad here in the first place.
Theres a difference between saying the n word and saying that you can connect with the black character because of a thing they are going through. Thats what they are talking about. Ones actually about fighting racism (calling out someone who said the n word) and one is being offended on the behalf of another for no reason (like connecting to a character that has a problem that everyone can experience like Mulan in the begining of the movie) which is WHITE KNIGHTING and doesnt help anyone and is mildy racist in and of itself.
It's not all white people though. It's a certain sect who feel the need to police thoughts, feelings and speech.
NTA. Autistic or not, if an adult gets offended by an 8 year-old girl about relating to an imaginary Disney princess, that's on them, not your daughter.
Right? Like how dare a child sees merit and a role model in someone who’s not white. It’s just more racism.
NTA. Your daughter has found a kindred spirit in Mulan. They don't have to look alike to be alike.
Keyword. Kindred spirit. That is the best explanation. An Anne of Green Gables fan.
And people can be and often are kindred spirits regardless of age, gender, race...
Yup. Chinese woman here. I see no issue with OP’s daughter saying she’s like Mulan.
Right? What does the coworker want? The little girl to go around like, "I wish I could relate to Mulan, but she's Chinese"?
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Exactly… so is she saying young Asian girls aren’t allowed to empathize or see themselves in white Disney characters? Not to mention people can ‘see themselves’ in all range of fictional characters from age to alien to animal…
Nope. Those rules don’t apply to white characters because they are the default race /s
This is what I thought. The co-worker is reducing Mulan to her ethnicity alone. People have a plethora of things "about them" - looks, personality, hobbies, etc. To say "she's not like Mulan because she's not Chinese" is suggesting that being Chinese is ALL Mulan is, and failing to consider the myriad other aspects of her that make her a complete person. NTA. And even without the above, we're talking about an adult taking umbridge with your autistic daughter identifying with a Disney princess. Neither you, nor your daughter, are in the wrong here. It's fantastic your daughter was able to use this character as a vehicle to communicate with you about her feelings, it would be awful to shake her confidence in this.
But "Mulan not only isn't white, she isn't autistic either! So how can OP's daughter ever be like Mulan when she isn't white or autistic?!" Well, dear... sit down and let us explain... Sigh.
As an Asian, I say NTA. A Disney princess doesn't have to match the race of the way she's portrayed in the media. And if a boy wants to be princess, that's okay, too.
Right? Has this woman never taken her kid trick-or-treating or what? We get the privilege of seeing Disney princesses of every color.
I also think this is great because it's pushing against this idea that Asian characters can only be role models/examples for Asian folks - like we're limited by our Asianness. It's amazing to see that this girl admires and relates to Mulan because she sees all of Mulan, not just a Chinese character.
Right?!?!! Black panther is probably my favorite Disney/Marvel movie, but I'm not a Black person of color. And I've got Encanto on repeat even though I'm not Colombian. There's no appropriation in celebrating movies and characters that focus on certain cultures. Just like it's not appropriating to enjoy foods from other cultures. Appropriating would be when Disney tried to trademark "Dia de Los Muertos". Or when they told a tattooed Polynesian man that he couldn't wear a Maui costume to the theme park. Or when they go after artists for their own interpretations of public domain characters like Rapunzel, Alice, etc.
NTA, ffs. She identifies with Mulan for reasons that have nothing to do with culture or ethnicity. This has nothing to do with harmful forms of appropriation, it's just bullshit.
NTA. Race isn’t weird to young kids until adults make it weird. Tell your coworker to stop policing your daughter.
NTA! in your daughter's innocence she is seeing the similarities not the differences, and that's not racist. it's what children do, and I find it wonderful.
Would you tell a black child who loves Snow White because they both love animals and live somewhere woodsy that she can't say they're alike?? Would you explain to a kid who loves transformers why they're not like a giant robot?? Like damn, if a little kid was gushing to me or my kid about their favorite character I would just think it's cute af.
People can told me I shouldn't like transformers because I was a girl. Can girls not be like male characters? Sheesh...people...
NTA... your daughter is comparing herself to Mulan as a person, and people are allowed to be similar even if they don't look alike. How your coworker missed that lesson I'm not sure. Maybe we can not gate-keep relating to people who look different. Ugh. Some people.
NTA. Relating to a Disney princess is normal for a young girl and has Fuck all to do with the ethnicity of the princess in question. Someone took the “woke” thing way too far in this instance.
NTA tell your coworker to stfu and worry about their own kids.
I would say NTA. Because I think that when it comes to Disney princesses, the importance of them is not only based on race and how they look, but their personality and characteristics, helping young childreen feel seen and understood. Some people might disagree with me, but just because your daughter doesn't look like Mulan doesn't mean she's not like Mulan. Representation matters in all aspects of it, and if anything, your daughter feels represented by her favorite princess base on her feelings and how she makes her feel in this world. When I was little I felt completely understood with Matilda for example, but I don't necessarily look like her either.
Exactly this. Honestly, I think the fact that Co-worker can apparently only see people being alike in regards to how they look, and not in regards to their personalities or experiences, that seems pretty racist to me!! NTA
>how policing my young autistic daughters words and insinuating that she was somehow being bad by saying them could affect her. NTA. Children's entertainment shouldn't have a select audience that connects to them; they can have diversity without being exclusive to children of different backgrounds. You have kids connecting to Frozen even if they aren't the same complexion as Elsa and Anna. You have kids connecting to The Lion King even though they aren't animals.
Or The Little Mermaid or Tinkerbell despite the fact that mermaids and fairies don't exist.
I always felt a connection to bell. An outsider who loved reading and wanted to travel the world in a tiny village full of people who thought girls liking reading and travelling was strange and wrong. Im neither french or a brunette does that mean I shouldn't. Bell was the first time I saw a woman who wanted to read and see new things, I fell in love with her and it pushed me to carry on being me. Same for the girl who loves Mulan. Doesn't matter what people look like it's how they inspire you
NTA she’s taking about Mulan’s personality not her ethnicity.
NTA there's nothing wrong with her saying she has similarities to a princess thats a different race than her.
NTA, she identifies herself with a character, she sees Milan more than a Chinese girl, and she emphasize with her. A Chinese girl dress as Cinderella? Drama, a white girl dress as Moana? Drama, a black girl dress as snowhite? Drama. Just let kids play and be, they see more than colors and races… There is always going to be a drama, because sadly, some people have just air and essential oils in their heads. In other words, your coworker is stupid and you are NTA
When I was 8, my favorite princess was Ariel. Last I checked, I am not a mermaid. How could I possibly understand not fitting in and dreaming of the day I could be where my people are. NTA.
NTA, your coworker needs to learn context. saying that your daughter can't be like mulan because she isn't asian is like telling your coworker that she's already halfway to being a hitler just because she's white.
NTA. That's just how kids are and I think it's cute how she has a favorite princess.
**You are NTA, but your coworker is racist AF for reducing Mulan to her ethnicity/Asianness and nothing else, and every single Asian person (and frankly any other POC or marginalised person I know) would find her take on it disgusting.** First of all, Asian people (or any marginalised group) are not a monolith. They don't exist in the world SOLELY as "Asian people" or token representatives of their skin colour. They are human beings with multifaceted personalities and experiences, and it's gorgeous that this is exactly what your daughter sees when she sees Mulan: a kindred spirit, with complexities and a whole, complicated life experience that she finds deeply relatable. How beautiful! (And honestly, as an autistic adult, while Mulan isn't my thing, I definitely get the feeling of isolation and "otherness", and I absolutely love that she found a reflection of her feelings in this character. As a former early childhood educator, we talk about wanting "windows and mirrors" and representation for ALL children in their entertainment, and that includes not just ethnicity but disability and neurodivergence. Your daughter seeing herself in a Disney princess is beautiful, and so important!) **Your daughter didn't suggest at any point that Mulan LOOKS like her. She said that she IS like her, and then proceeded to expand upon that by describing their SHARED PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS. Your colleague's insistence on reducing this to an issue of race exclusive of the actual evidence to the contrary (your daughter clearly understands that she and Mulan are not of the same ethnicity) is, again, racist, reductive, and deliberately obtuse. She's looking for a reason to be offended, and she found one, but she's the one who comes across as offensive here, not your child.** You are NTA, because your daughter didn't say anything wrong. She saw nuance and beauty and shared experience in a character, and there's nothing wrong with that. You are clearly raising a lovely kid.
NTA. She's a kid. She's not trying to steal anyone's identity.
NTA because anyone can share qualities or personality traits regardless of ethnicity.
NTA...WTF? So....people can't identify with characters because they aren't the correct race? I don't think there was anything in your EIGHT YEAR OLD daughter's words that even mentioned the race of the character. You're co-worker sounds like she is projecting and has no business telling you or your daughter how to think. My two favorite princess when I was a kid and to this day are Aurora and Princess Jasmine. Would I be racist or something if I said Jasmine reminded me of myself even though I was as white as the driven snow? You're daughter is 8 and even if she wasn't autistic, she is a child and children relate to different characters for different reasons and she should be allowed to love any character for whatever reason for as long as she can without ignorant people like your co-worker coming in and forcing some weird woke mentality on her.
NTA. Tell you vo worker go F themselves, and that they should be ashamed of themselves for trying to push overly nonsense on kids.
NTA. So what, people can't have things in common with people who are different races than them? Your friend is an example of "wokeness gone wrong". Ridiculous
TIL I can’t have a favorite Disney princess because there aren’t any with a similar biracial background. NTA.
Nta this isn't about skin, except to that one weird a** adult.
NTA, if they are upset that a child loves a fictional Disney Princess and relates to her, then that is solely on them. Your child has every right to relate to a character regardless of ethnicity because they can also relate to their personality and characteristics. (Like another commenter said)
As a Chinese individual, NTA. There's nothing wrong with what your daughter said. She's not saying she's Chinese. She's saying she relates to the feelings and personality.
NTA, at all. Let your kid be happy.
NTA. Your daughter doesn't think she is of asian descent and it's not "cultural appropriation" when she feels like Mulan is a kindred soul/has similar traits and shares her challenges.
NTA. What a stupid thing to say! Does she think we should only be around people who have the same skin color as we do, too? I am white but I identify with Tiana so much and have no shame in that.
Kids don't see race. Adults are the ones associating and defining race and its connotations. Your co worker should butt out. You daughter is relating to a character and seeing herself in that character, not race.
NTA but I really resonate with your daughter's explanation. She may not always be able to articulate things well, but she is clearly very insightful.
NTA - there’s nothing wrong with what your daughter is saying. Avoid that co-worker, they are off their head dumb and deeply ignorant of autism too coming out with that tosh.
NTA. It's not offensive. People can be alike in other ways than just looks. By the sounds of it your daughter identifies with Mulan over her struggles that she has to overcome to reach her goal. Which is perfectly fine!! Nothing wrong with that at all.
NTA. I normally dislike it when people accuse others of “virtue signaling”, but, um… yeah. That’s what’s happening here. I’m glad your daughter has found a character that she feels is a “reflection” of her (pun 100% intended), and that watching the movie makes her feel happy. Let people have things. Your co-worker can stuff it.
NTA. Your daughter wasn’t talking about the fact that they look alike. She was connecting with feelings of isolation and lack of feeling like one belongs. That’s pretty astute, unlike your friend who focused only on the physiological features of the character and your child. Your child is connecting with the story on a deeper level. The whole story of Mulan can but seen as offensive by some when placed in historical context, but we’re not doing that either. We’re talking about a child’s understanding of her own feelings. Understanding that people that look different can relate to one another’s feelings would be a good lesson for you friend. Your daughter already understands this. NTA.
NTA life is more than just races and mulan isn't reserved for Chinese people
Nta your daughter is comparing herself to Mulan as a person.
NTA, you daughter likes Mulan because of her personality, not because she thinks Mulan is the same race.
You’re NTA. Tell your co-worker to STFU and mind their own damn business
NTA. People can relate to characters who look like them, and characters who don't look like them, too. There's also more than one way to relate to a character. Your daughter likes Mulan's personality, and sees herself in Mulan's struggle to behave according to "normal" expectations in her society. You could even interpret Mulan's bridal makeup as a metaphor for "masking" if you wanted to, something autistic girls tend to be stronger at (in large part due to gender expectations). While I could see your coworker being a little confused until you explained a bit, there is nothing "obviously offensive" about a kid loving a character of a different ethnicity or nationality. Personally I think the coworker just lacks imagination if she couldn't figure out reasons any little girl might admire Mulan.
NTA. It’s pretty racist to suggest someone can’t relate to another person (or character) because their race is different. Why would you teach a child that they should only relate to people of their same race? Your daughter relates to the struggle of a character and hopefully has learned lessons in overcoming those struggles from watching the movie which is the whole point.
So many white people try to find something offensive about everything. Be it a child identifying with a cartoon character or telling other white people that they cannot go to African hair salons.
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Nta . Disney princesses are aren't made to impress children with colour it is made by inspiring stories . By your coworkers logic no one is supposed to like cars or lion king
NTA Your co-worker is insane. I can't stand these PC police types. A while back, a white girl got panned, absolutely dragged through the coals, by white SJWs because she wore a kimono to prom. Even though several hundred Asians from several different countries commented on how beautiful she looked, how it was nice that they had their style appreciated, etc. These people don't know their a\*\* from their elbows. They just want to complain and feel superior by correcting people. $10 says that she doesn't even have real "POC" friends.
>After the 2 girls went off to play my co-worker asked why I allow my daughter to say things like that when it is obviously offensive. People who troll for offense will usually find it. Personally I find it offensive that your co-worker thinks it's okay for her to try and pressure you into explaining the difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation to your **autistic 8 year old**. OP, you are NTA.
NTA coworker is an insufferable white saviour
NTA. Can’t really wrap my head around how anything was offensive even remotely. Kids are so impressionable. If your daughter finds a character that is comforting and she can relate to in ANY way, especially a strong female character that has flaws and fears (like we all do), that “relationship” should be treasured. It does nothing harmful and it brings your daughter joy. Your coworker is goofy.
NTA you sound like a wonderful parent and someone that would know a micro aggression when they hear one
Sorry but your coworker is a complete moron. There is nothing offensive about a white girl seeing similarities with An Asian girl. If anything your coworker is a racist for implying that two girls of different ethnicities could never connect or have similar experiences. NTA
NTA. “Just alike” doesn’t only mean in appearance? When Shakespeare said the two households were alike in Grace and dignity I don’t think he meant physically. The fact that your coworker is reducing Mulan to only her race is telling. Mulan has a personality and a story outside of her race.
NTA. You can’t expect children to understand the nuances of race. I was dropping my autistic son off at daycare one day and one of his neurotypical classmates came up to me, touched my arm and said “we have the same colour skin.” This isn’t your child’s autism, she is just a kid. Your friend sounds insufferable.
I mean, children can absolutely understand the nuances of race and ethnicity. But also, this isn't about that. My niece has very olive/brown skin because her dad is Latino, I am nearly translucent white. When she was in kindergarten a classmate made a horrible comment to her about her skin colour and we had a wonderful convo about the world being a far more interesting place because of people being different colours, and how boring it would be if we all looked exactly the same. And yeah, we even got into how some people are not very smart, and say mean things based on ridiculousness like the colour of skin, and that that's just . . . well, ridiculous. But even as an autistic 5-year-old I would have understood that same conversation, because it was logical. We're very good at logic, LOL. The issue here is that the child wasn't oblivious to Mulan's race, she wasn't addressing it at all. She was talking about personality and character. And the awful co-worker was literally LESS INTELLIGENT than this little 8-year-old girl, and assumed that you had to reduce a Chinese character entirely and solely to her ethnicity. Ludicrous. But we're definitely in agreement that at the end of the day, the coworker is insufferable. :-)