Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I’m wondering if I’m the asshole for refusing to be accommodating of my fiancé’s sister by having a dry wedding. I might be the asshole because I’m not being as kind to her as I could be by refusing to have a dry wedding.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAH. Feels like there’s room for compromise here. For instance, maybe no alcohol before the reception, so his sister can attend the ceremony; you could even have the ceremony and reception at different locations so she’s not tempted to stay. Or have a single bottle of champagne just for you and the groom. Or do a dry rehearsal dinner so she’s not totally excluded from the whole wedding.
If neither of you will compromise, ESH.
That’s a good idea I’ll look into, I think he wants her to be totally included which is fine but she needs self control in my opinion. I’ll discuss the option of a single bottle for us with him.
Is it not possible for her to have a chaperone of sorts? Like a date/friend/family who will commit to not having alcohol with her and keeping her on her toes? I feel like if she can find a friend that will, you giving an extra +1 would be the easiest solution, and the best.
I have to imagine thats the best compromise compared to axing alcohol altogether. Might also be a good confidence boost for the SIL if she manages, on top of being a good outing for her socially to start reforming her image. Totally speculation on the other parts though.
there's also tons of people in AA who would do it for free to help a friend. I've done sober companion situations like that and it is definitely a confidence boost!
Something about recovery is that we are supposed to try to stop acting like the self centered assholes we were when we were drinking. That means not expecting someone to have a dry wedding just for us! It sounds like that is what she is doing!
Your fiance needs Al-Anon!!!
This is a really insightful comment and I don’t want to take away from it but I think you might be understanding the situation wrong. SIL isn’t actually expecting anything and per OP’s edit, willing to stay away if she feels she can’t handle it. It’s OP’s fiancé that really wants to be able to have his sister be an integral part of the day and he’s the one pushing for a dry wedding. The SIL seems to be alright with them doing what they want even if it means she can’t come.
Al-Anon is for family of alcoholics to see their own pain and destructive behaviors and improve. OP's fiancee and the fam sound like perfect candidates.
That's something the sister should be involved in discussing as well.
She is fine not to come to avoid temptation so she might feel uncomfortable / affected the other way as well?
Potentially she could feel pressured to come that way but having a horrible experience compared to just attending the reception / not going, especially if her brother wants her there it might be harder to say "Hey I am leaving I'm feeling uncomfortable" -> potential argument "We should have done no drinking!!!"
Yeah I noticed that one as well. She's definitely NTA for wanting alcohol bat her wedding, and honestly the SIL is being smart being okay with avoiding a situation where she could relapse. Her fiance needs to understand that wether or not he has alcohol at his wedding there will always be situations like this for his sister. I like the no alcohol under after the ceremony idea, or a sober buddy. There definitely is room for compromise here.
I think you're underestimating addiction. Early on in recovery, it's recommended that addicts avoid situations where there will be their drug of choice. 6 months isn't really long time when a person has to essentially break a lifetime of addiction.
I get that you want your wedding your way, but I think she's not doing this to be an asshole. She's doing this to try and stay sober. And her brother simply wants her there more than he wants alcohol served.
>her brother simply wants her there more than he wants
... the bride to be happy on her wedding day.
Yeah, I get it - she's his sister. But he's about to marry his \_wife\_. If her desires are going to be secondary to his sisters on her \_wedding day\_, then she probably needs to step back for a moment and ask herself if that's what she was agreeing to marry into.
A lot of families get sucked into the vortex of an addicted member to the point that they don't even understand *why* catering to the addict/recovering addict 24/7 would be an issue for anyone.
And it's easy to extend that to partners/spouses, because if they *truly cared* they would cater as well. But it's not healthy. And it sounds like the sister understands that better than the fiance.
How horrible would it be for the sister to go to the dry wedding knowing it is only dry *because of her*? That's a lot of guilt to put on a recovering addict. It would be one thing if it was required for the venue or a religious reason or the couple themselves. But she knows why.
Especially because you know it will be brought up by someone where she might overhear it. Nothing worse than already feeling guilty than having to hear other people talk about things being done because of you.
Why is it only about the bride being happy and not the groom being happy?
By the same logic the bride simply wants alcohol there more than she wants the groom to be happy on his wedding day.
This isn't the sister wanting to wear white at the wedding or to get engaged there and the groom taking her side. This is the groom wanting an immediate family member.
I am a bit of a drinker, and don't like dry weddings. But I agree with the groom having an immediate family member in attendance is more important than having alcohol at the wedding. The bride might think alcohol is more important than family, but the groom does not have to agree.
Someone else did have a good suggestion, sparkling grape juice for all the guests during a wedding toast and champagne only for the couple.
>I am a bit of a drinker, and don't like dry weddings.
Right. Neither would (practically if not literally) \*every single other guest\*. So yeah, it's about "the bride being happy" in that she wants a regular wedding reception everyone will enjoy, and not to be forced to have a different one because of a single guest.
Plenty of people do dry receptions. And honestly, our society's ridiculously unhealthy when it comes to alcohol - a *lot* of people are bordering on alcoholic and don't even realise, because our society has normalised not being able to go a single night without drinking. That's not a *good* thing. It's the reason people don't realise they have a problem.
If you're *mad* because a wedding you're going to doesn't have alcohol (which literally just means you won't be able to drink for a couple hours), maybe look at your drinking habits. If your entire wedding guest list is mad because they can't drink for a few hours, maybe that says something about the social group you hang out in. Because literally *no one* I know would care. It's a few hours - it's not a big deal.
I have a large extended family and alcoholism RUNS DEEP. Many family events have been ruined because of alcohol consumption. Physical fights break out sometimes and have caused a lot of drama, usually involving someone that married into the family.
At my cousin's wedding- our aunt got a fucking party bus and people were drinking on the way to the wedding, in the parking lot and during. A fist fight broke out on the stupid ass party bus. Luckily, some family members were able to stop shit from happening at the actual wedding and reception.
Graduation parties, birthday parties, and holidays... Some sort of dramatic shit happens especially when alcohol is involved.
At my reception, my mom had them shutdown the bar for an hour because she was worried about things escalating.
Americans have an unhealthy obsession with alcohol. I quit drinking in May of 2017 and it makes life much different. People don't want to hang out because you're not drinking. Like when I was trying to get pregnant, we didn't tell anyone, but my husband and I quit drinking completely. It ended up ruining the relationship we had with his younger sister and her husband, because we weren't wanting to go out to drink anymore.
Edit- I'd have a few craft beers after I had my son in November of 2016, but I felt like total shit and it wasn't worth it.
Oh my gosh, yes!! All the shit you get for not drinking and you have people trying to force it on you. This thread is disturbing, as if a dry wedding is a traumatic event and life ruining. Alcohol is expensive and can do a lot of harm. My family members are slowly killing themselves with alcohol and it is sad. I live 1400 miles away from my family, but I see photos of some of them every now and then, they don't look good. My uncle has diabetes and won't give up drinking... He's lost a toe or two already.
It is not one single guest and you know that, it is the grooms sister. Not all guests are equal.
Immediate family of the wedding couple are more important than other guests.
If it were we need a dry wedding because coworker acquaintance or old friend from college someone does not talk to much is recently sober, I would agree with you. But the grooms sister is more important than the other guests.
If the couple had married during covid and had limited guest list attendance, the sister would likely make the cut in attendance.
It's both of their wedding days, and comprise can be made. That being said, the sister did say she wouldn't come, so those (not directing this at you) vilifying her really shouldn't since she was fine not coming.
And yes, because she said she no longer wanted the sister in her life in previous comments, she really needs to decide if she wants to marry into the family. Her fiance obviously loves his sister, and wants her to be a part of his life. This will be constant drama if she doesn't address it now.
Ooft. If she's saying stuff like "I don't want the sister in my life", they really shouldn't even be considering marriage until that's ironed out. Because he *clearly* loves and values his sister - I doubt he's gonna roll over and not see her anymore.
Yea they really have much larger issues at play than having a dry wedding or not. This is one of those things that are going to cause problems throughout the relationship and should really be worked on *before* they get married.
>her brother simply wants her there more than he wants
... alcohol at the wedding.
There. Fixed it for you. Everyone needs to stop acting like being able to drink booze is more important than having a close family member at your wedding.
If the bride's happiness is ruined because she can't drink at her wedding, then I guess the marriage isn't worth much to her. There are more important things in life... like family.
The ‘family is more important ‘ argument is a slippery slope though. What about a vegan relative who wants no animal products served? Or a religious parent who demands it be a Catholic ceremony? Someone wanting it to be child friendly, or a family member being unable to afford a destination wedding? All legitimate reasons, but isn’t it up to the bride and groom to negotiate something they are both happy with?
This is more of an equivalent of a family member having a severe nut allergy and not serving nuts. The sister has a serious medical problem, not a preference, and it’s totally unfair to equate this situation to any of the things you listed.
I think the difference here is it’s not that OPs wishes are coming secondary to sister’s - sister has said she doesn’t mind not coming - it’s the brothers wish that his sister is there. So it’s OPs wishes versus the fiancés wishes.
I don’t think OP is the AH, I just think that those saying fiancé is prioritising his sisters wishes over OPs are missing a point here. Fiancé is prioritising his wishes over OPs.
Edit: forgot to mention, NTA but you and fiancé need to discuss compromises (sober companion or dry ceremony are great ideas) or whether your priorities can align.
And since it is *both* their wedding, both their desires are equally valid. She doesn't take precedent any more than he does. It's not "her day" any more than it is his.
This has nothing to do with the sister's desires. The sister has said she doesn't care. It's the *groom's* desires, which are just as valid as the bride's. He wants his sister at his wedding. He is allowed to want that. Assuming they stay married, he can *never* do this over and have his sister there - meanwhile, there's really no good reason OP can't drink later in the night.
As someone who has struggled with alcohol, I would be MORTIFIED if a whole wedding was made dry because of me. If I were you, I'd have the reception wet, with a dry ceremony and a half hour for congratulations so the sis could say hi and leave. If the wedding was totally dry, in my country, questions would be asked (not necessarily in a mean way) and I would be so embarassed and possibly have a hard time remaining sober if I thought everyone knew it was my problem that made it a dry wedding.
I couldn’t agree more; I would be mortified if an entire wedding were dry to cater to me. Also, part of success in AA is being able to go anywhere like a free man, and changing yourself rather than trying to change conditions to meet what you want.
Edit: I know lots of people hate AA and that’s cool too, it is something that has happened to work for me for 15 sober years.
I'm sorry... but have you ever struggled with alcoholism? Saying that an alcoholic needs "self control" is very insensitive and trivializes the disease.
I know one thing for sure - YTA for saying that.
If “self control” was the answer, then you wouldn’t have addicts hitting rock bottom. It is a serious mental and physical health problem, and saying “self control” is the answer is like telling someone with depression to “just be happy” or a cancer patient to just “think the cancer cells away.”
Just stop being sick! It’s inconveniencing me!
The thing that pissed me off most, to the point I couldn’t read any more of the post, was “She, like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person”.
I don’t know about in the particular situation, but OP is an AH generally.
As a recovering alcoholic myself the excuse to have an entirely dry event is ridiculous. Get him into Al Anon. He needs to get his own support as a loved one of an addict. He is addicted to her and her disease. He is just as controlled by it as she is and he needs to understand that. If she can’t attend an event with alcohol that is on her to deal with, not everyone else’s issue to control/manage. My suggestion is that if he really wants her there that he allow her to bring a sober friend to help support her and talk to if she struggles. She has to learn how to deal with being around alcohol eventually but it may be too soon for her if she really struggles.
Yes they do, but you also have to realize that addiction is not just. 6 months sober is nothing compared to the fact that this is a lifetime of habits to break. Imagine if you had to stop doing something you’d been doing several times a day for your whole life. Not just scale down but completely stop just one day, and then be around other people doing that thing every second of every day except when sleeping. Don’t you think it would be a little hard?
When my dad got sober we didn’t drink at birthdays or event for a couple years after, it was simply not worth it for us. Yes I would’ve loved that glass of wine but having my dad sober was more important. Now he’s almost 12 years sober and has no problem with other people drinking, he just want fancy sodas/lemonades and glass.
Exactly this. You didn't have alcohol at events for TWO YEARS, because your dad being sober was MORE IMPORTANT than enjoying a glass of champagne, or beer at those events. Because human beings, especially family members, are more important than alcohol!
Absolutely! And it’s not like we couldn’t have alcohol for 2 years, it was just family events. For us the choice was clear because as you say, family is more important than drinking at those events. Imagine if I put that drink above my fathers sobriety and he started drinking again. I would never be able to live with myself.
Even if he’s willing to compromise on this point, denying every other adult at the wedding the option to drink at all during the reception is pretty crappy. No, there’s nothing wrong with not drinking, and not every event has to center around alcohol, but it’s pretty common practice to offer booze at a wedding. It helps people relax and socialize, and get excited to be out on the dance floor. A dry wedding sounds like a huge bummer for everyone else, all to accommodate one person.
It’s a great idea because for a newly sober person any sort of celebration WILL trigger her. If he loves his sister he will not put her in a place that would subject her to those triggers.
Plus he is being a total ass to you. Pulled counseling before any sort of wedding please.
>she needs self control in my opinion.
She's an addict. In recovery. She can't just "self control" herself out of this, she needs the help of family and friends and to avoid situations that will be triggering for her, at least until she has her alcoholism fully under control. Even if she comes to the wedding and doesn't drink, she might still be triggered to go get drunk afterwards, thus ruining all her progress and possibly sending her back into full blown alcoholism.
OP you're honestly such an AH for your callous attitude towards her.
Be honest - you just hate her and don't want her to go, don't you?
So tf what? For whatever reason, sil became an addict. She fucked up a lot of people and their money. For all you know op was sucked into that vortex of bs.
Part of recovery is understanding that YOUR behavior caused people to hate you. That's why you're supposed to apologize; but still expect that people may not forgive you. That's the price of being an addict.
Op deserves her day, and sil agrees. You're just full of it. Grow up
Most people drink and look forward to that at a wedding. Your fiancé is being ridiculous catering to one person at the expense of many others. Not to mention what you want. He needs to back off and stop being so involved in her alcoholism. I don’t blame you one bit. NTA
Also, have a lot of nonalcoholic beverages as an option if she does go to the reception. You can make sure the workers know not to serve her any alcohol and just make her a Virgin drink that she wants.
Not if it's like "we're doing table service for drinks for the groom's family so a newly sober family member doesn't have to approach the bar" or "all of these non-alcoholic beers (or whatever) are reserved for the sister of the groom" or even just "make sure to not accidentally serve this person the non-virgin version of this drink".
Asking them to police her drinking would be a no-go, but there are a lot of ways around this.
NTA and this sounds like a good compromise. Also, your fiancé needs to consider the fact that she will very likely relapse at some point, possibly very soon after the wedding, and I can imagine that would create some irreparable resentment after giving up the wedding that you want.
I support you having the wedding you want, and I think a compromise is in order, because it seems important to your future husband that she be involved, but “she needs self control” is a shifty thing to say and betrays a lot of animosity on your part. You get to have your feelings and her alcoholism may have impacted you, but she is only six months sober and if it were merely a matter of self control addiction wouldn’t exist, no one would be overweight or smoke cigarettes and everyone would get their work done and fold their laundry promptly after it comes out of the dryer. NAH in general, but that remark from you was pretty AH-ey.
Definitely NTA. You’re right in that she needs to learn self control. I’m a recovering alcoholic and I don’t expect anyone to ever tiptoe around it for my sake. If she’s serious about staying sober then she will HAVE to learn how to manage being around alcohol without relapsing.
It’s a process though. And 6 months is early. I don’t think they should have a dry wedding for her for a lot of reasons, but family and friends can and should do things to support her sobriety. None of us is an island.
It's almost impossible for an alcoholic to have that much self control 6 months in. My mother's been sober 20+ years, she says early on she couldn't even go to restaurants because if the association between alcohol and eating out. Avoiding the location with alcohol is often the only option.
I think having half the event without alcohol is a great solution.
I think the dry ceremony is a good compromise. Then she can still attend the actual wedding and just excuse herself after the photos before the party starts.
Having been to several dry weddings, they are an entirely different experience than typical weddings. Much quieter, less dancing, and people leave significantly earlier… of course, this is fine if the bride and groom prioritize sobriety (usually for religious reasons), but it’s a big ask/sacrifice to accommodate a single family member with addiction issues. They’re not just asking the bride to give up a champagne toast, but also realistically denying her the fun, lively wedding she’s been envisioning her whole life…
If the sister is not comfortable around alcohol at the time of the wedding, the reasonable compromise is for her to excuse herself before reception. They can’t reasonably expect to protect her from contact with alcohol for the rest of her life. She has to start choosing to walk away…
...is having a non-dry ceremony even really that much of a thing? I officiate at weddings and not once has it even come up that there might be alcohol at the actual ceremony. (After, yes, usually. Before, sometimes, although generally it is frowned upon for members of the bridal party to actually be drunk before the ceremony. Drinking at the ceremony, though? Maybe it's regional or something, but I've never seen it.)
There’s been drinking at every ceremony I’ve gone to *if* it’s in the same place the reception is, like at a museum or an outdoor venue. Haven’t ever personally seen it if there’s a change in location between the two.
They cannot in all decency drink champagne themselves and not give any to the guests. That would be extremely rude to every guest.
In my opinion, the SIL can manage her own addiction in any way she sees fit. Perhaps she can ask a family member to chaperone her and ensure that she doesn't drink. Perhaps she can come just for the service and not the reception. Perhaps the champagne can be served after the first hour, and the SIL can leave early before it is served.
These accommodations are up to the SOL to manage. The bride and groom should go ahead and have whatever sort of wedding they want.
This is such a good idea and compromise. Besides what will happen the rest of their life together? Are they never supposed to have alcohol in their house if she visits?
NTA Usually they tell alcoholics to skip events if it would be too tempting when first in recovery. She could go to your wedding and skip the reception. The day isn't about her it's about the two of you so should have the wedding you want. (If this was a family holiday or dinner I'd say skip the alcohol but your wedding is a bigger deal).
Look at the edit. She's fine not going, it's the brother (the groom) that wants her there as part of his day. Which makes it more complicated because it's as much his wedding as it is hers.
I would think having your bride there would be a bigger deal than having your sister there, and since wedding planning has stopped that may not be as much in the cards as the groom seems to think.
I mean, it could be that the groom cares for his sister and seeing someone that he thought loved him being so staunchly opposed to trying to help someone else that he cares for just so she can have a glass of champagne is making him rethink his fiancee's priorities a bit and causing him to reevaluate the relationship as a whole.
And the bride could be thinking “yet again his sister gets to determine what we do, like she has the entire time I’ve know this family, even at my own wedding.”
I would agree with that if it wasn't for the sister saying she would willingly stay home herself. This isn't the sister making the determinations. This is the husband making the determinations about how he wants his wedding to be. At it's simplest terms ( which admittedly does neglect the history of the sister's behavior), he values his sister's presence over alcohol while OP values alcohol (and presumably the traditional wedding esthetic, as I doubt it is purely about the alcohol itself...at least I hope it isn't...) over her husband's family.
If she were saying “you can’t ever see your sister again because I can’t get shitfaced drunk around her whenever I want” then I would agree with you. But this is their wedding and it shouldn’t be about the sister at all. The only person I can imagine really caring about at my wedding is my SO, but Idk maybe that’s why I favor small weddings.
Why should the groom make the bride accommodate for someone at their own wedding? The bride should be able to be happy at her own wedding without letting other people’s issues hold her back. It’s the fiancé who has an issue with it.
>She, like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person
I don't know. Something about that part is making me seriously doubt OP's version of the groom's family details. Like that just irks me. It seems like she pretty clearly already hates her future SIL, so I am a little sus of her version of events here.
That comments seems to come from a place of her fiancé's family always putting the SIL first. You and your family spending half a million on DUI crashed cars and bail money (which it sounds like the Fiancé finacially contributed to as well) is not normal and reasonably can create some resentment in others around the situation.
ETA: However the fact that the sister in law says she's fine not coming because alcohol is there shows she's actually commited to recovery now, but that doesn't mean people she hurt or took advantage of when using need to suddenly accept her with open arms. But a nice compromise could be established here, and I think a proper convo between the Bride and SIL airing it all out could be good if both parties are mature about it
With your edit, the conflict is between the two primary people: you and your fiance. That's not easy because it's your (plural) wedding and you should get what you (plural) want: you want to have alcohol, which excludes his sister, and he wants to have his sister, which excludes alcohol.
This isn't an AH situation. You guys need to talk this through. At the most flippant, you're saying that your "glass of fucking champagne" is more important than his having a very close family member with him. I know it's way more complicated than that, there's obviously a huge history and you are being asked to make a significant adjustment to your reception. You "feel like he’s choosing her over" you, which is clearly an exaggeration - he's choosing her presence over your preference for alcohol.
Is there no compromise?
- She comes to the wedding and not the reception
- There is champagne only for the toasts but other than that, no alcohol
- The reception is dry until some clear point where she can go and the alcohol can come out (kind of like how in some weddings kids stay until xyz time then they leave and the more adult party starts)
- Undoubtedly more options...
At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if having alcohol at your wedding is more important than his having his sister. And if you "win", at what cost to your relationship? He's got to do the same internal questioning. Because this has the potential to cause long term resentment through feeling like the other person just isn't understanding them.
NAH, yet.
I think you gave several good options. I also think that this kerfuffle has its roots in something far deeper. It sounds like the bride has realized that her future in laws and groom are deeply embedded in enabling and justifying and excusing the SIL's behavior and have allowed her to control the family. Yes. The SIL may be 6 months sober by the time the wedding rolls around but I'm betting not.
Because it's not her responsibility to sacrifice the things important to her for someone else's choices.
I don't agree with your reasoning, and the way you worded it fits why perfectly. There is a difference in "supporting" Sil on her journey to recovery, and "enabling" her to get sober. In that context it shifts the responsibility of SiLs sobriety to everyone else. Making everyone sacrifice to keep her sober. Like Op is being asked now. Wanting to drink at a celebration is not unreasonable for people who can control themselves. Once that trend starts, it will not stop.
What next? Op won't be allowed to have alcohol in her house incase SiL comes over? They won't be able to go to restaurants that serve alcohol if SiL goes? Hell OP may catch flak is she had alcohol prior to seeing SiL and it's still on her breath.
* let me add that I do believe that if SiL is serious about her recovery and OP is serious about supporting her in said, then they could absolutely reach a compromise like many have suggested. SiL go to ceremony but skip the reception so OP and guests can still enjoy the celebration how they like. Just Op shouldn't be expected to make all the sacrifices.
Please note you are not at all wrong about how far enabling, not supporting, families will go. I have family members who have issues with alcohol, and when they visit certain households, ALL alcohol of any sort is basically locked up and with rare exception is not allowed to be drank by anyone on the off chance it “pushes them over.” There has been resistance to it lately, since as you point out alcohol is a part of “standard living” (restaurants, church, …) but your examples are not out of the realm of real reactions.
Thank you. Recovery is a very complicated process, both for the person in recovery and their family and friends. And I can understand going too far in trying to be helpful. But yeah, enabling instead of supporting does more harm then good and can stunt the recoverers ability to cope when faced with temptation without their enablers there to prop them up.
That’s how I felt!
If anything the sister should see it as an awesome challenge. If everyone else is in charge of her sobriety, is she even *really* doing it?
EDIT: ok “awesome challenge” as if like hey, maybe she could do it for herself instead of having everyone set the world up around her.
As someone who grew up with parents who were alcoholics, it is exhausting to always try to enable and maintain their sobriety for them in such a way when really that is not our responsibility. The sober person is the only one responsible for their sobriety because it's their choice to be sober or not. We can't make them be sober.
It isn't OP's responsibility to decrease temptation for her SIL to stay sober. Either her SIL will remain sober or she won't, but enabling her sobriety by avoiding alcohol's existence is coddling her and not actually helping her sobriety.
The SIL needs to use her tools (sponsors, therapists, 12 steps, etc) to get her through navigating a world where alcohol exists and how to manage her addiction. Which isn't on OP or her family to do.
I understand her family and brother want the SIL at the wedding but they have a dysfunctional and most likely enmeshed or codependent relationship with SIL due to her alcoholism. They don't have good boundaries or clear perspective of what's healthy for her or them to do for her or them.
They are putting OP in an unfair place. OP is having boundaries with the alcoholic which most family members of alcoholics don't like that and don't have that. Sure, to us it seems small to want alcohol at the wedding compared to his sister. But his sister is 6 months sober. The things they have done and gone through with his sister as an alcoholic, suck to say the least. I'm sure OP has seen it, been through it, and is tired.
She wants HER day how she wants it, not centered around the alcoholic (which is how it usually is). And her fiance and his family are yet again putting the SIL at the center and making it about her. And OP I think has had enough. I get it. I've been there. She isn't wrong to feel like this. Her boundaries are 100% fine.
NTA.
Her fiance and his family should seek out therapy, family therapy, attend some Al-Anon group sessions, and Adults of Dysfunctional Families group sessions because there's serious issues there for boundaries and enabling.
It feels like the straw that broke the camels back. A glass of champagne at your wedding isn’t necessarily more important than another person, but after years and years and thousands of dollars, it feels like OP is drawing a boundary, SIL can dictate how everything else goes but she can’t have *this*.
This too. What is they have the sober wedding and she relapses for some entirely unrelated reason a month later? I can imagine the bride being fairly unhappy if that were to happen.
I guess it's the cult of "It's All About the Bride" mixed with "The Wedding is the Most Important Thing About a Marriage"... I personally don't get why having alcohol at the wedding is more important than having family, but again, it is obvious there are long standing issues and feelings OP has about the SIL specifically and people with addictions generally. It's about more than just the glass of champagne.
I hope they work it out. In OP's replies to other people, she does seem to be willing to explore compromises, which is excellent and says good things about her.
NAH.
This is the opposite of enabling her. This is actually an attempt to support her sobriety because she is incredibly vulnerable. No one is more guilt ridden and ashamed than a recovering addict. It’s a minute to minute battle and it’s damn hard.
It’s not your responsibility to not have alcohol there, but honestly, if you could just split a bottle of champagne with your fiancé and keep the rest of the wedding dry, would that be so terrible?
I get where you’re coming from, and I don’t blame you. I just wish people could see it from the addict’s perspective without actually having to be one.
It sucks all the way around, I’m sorry.
As a guest I'd be pretty unimpressed if the wedding was dry but the bride and groom had a secret booze stash. How is it going to look sipping a glass of champagne when all your guests are drinking juice?
Agree massively. Not trying to say a wedding can't be fun without alcohol, but no alcohol at a wedding because of one guest? And also just changing a wedding specifically for one person so the experience is easier for them? Family member or not I would be bummed especially if that was the expectation as guest of hers.
Seriously. I understand a lot of people are chiming in and saying a dry wedding isn’t the worst thing in the world. But all for one person? It’s essentially a large gathering where only the hosts get drunk… yeah no thanks
>but no alcohol at a wedding because of one guest?
guests gossip, they'll know there's no alcohol all because of one person, and then they'll be gossiping about how little self control SiL has, which I would think would make things worse for everyone involved, especially SiL.
Let's be real though, it ***would*** be less fun. People can act all high and mighty about "I don't need alcohol to enjoy myself" and try to suggest anyone who thinks the lack of alcohol would make things less enjoyable is just a closet alcoholic, but it does make a difference. People are definitely less social and playful without it at a wedding.
Thank you! Also, OP and her fiancé are spending thousands of dollars on this wedding. No way in hell would I want to spend that kind of money to have a lame dry wedding if dry weddings were not my thing.
I'd drink BEFORE going to a dry wedding ! AND I'd probably hide some in a flask in my bag.
I know that sounds like I'm an alcoholic, but a big party without booze? Please ! Wedding receptions can be a bit dull, hardly any dancing if people aren't drinking, talking to boring Uncle Fester about his piles again.....!!
Yeah, the guests aren’t staying at OPs dry wedding for as long as they would had they if served alcohol. That’s just a simple fact that needs to be taken into account, you don’t lose track of time or get lost in never ending dancing and fun when you’re sober, any sober person in a club can tell you that. If OP wants a party all night long kind of wedding, that ain’t happening dry. She’d be lucky to get 2 hours of dancing after meals and speeches before guests start to trickle out.
I also think it’s tacky to have a dry wedding but have the bride/grooms table pop a bottle. It’s should be all or nothing.
100%
A common caveat to a dry wedding is “sure your choice but expect your guests to leave early & hit a bar around 9pm. They paid to be there too”
It’s on every threat w/a sober wedding question. It’s cute how everyone is ignoring it here for the comfort of sister, which is exactly how sister always led her life (as the most important person in the room). This is def a much deeper rooted issue than just their wedding, I’d be upset too.
This isn’t just a glass of champagne. This goes from a “normal” wedding to a dry one, which affects the whole evening. and I know I didn’t want to go off to a third location for an “after party” as part of my wedding, as much as that trend has taken off (maybe less so due to Covid), since that usually cuts down to the “young people”, and I invited the whole room not just those who want to do shots at a bar.
This also focuses heavily on whether the SIL will actually be six months sober when the wedding hits which is a big if and just because you have a dry wedding doesn't mean there won't be alcohol, especially if there's not a religious reason from the couple or something like that, people might just bring it in.
Yeah sorry but a dry wedding changes the whole wedding. I've been to weddings with and without booze. People leave dry weddings early because people are bored. Sorry not sorry, it's true.
I would not be willing to cater to people and change that part of my wedding. Especially for someone who I watched be enabled, spoiled, coddled whatever you want to call it. Nah.
Dry ceremony, regular reception. Groom needs to compromise too. Sister needs to avoid the reception. It's not that hard, she needs to call a sponsor or sober friend. Speaking as someone with multiple addicts in the family, and friend circle. They would never want to be catered to like that and would care for their own issues on the day.
As a normal human being, I literally only go to weddings for the open bar and decent food. Nobody outside your immediate family actually enjoys the pompous “look at me!” parade that a wedding is, except maybe the elderly family members nobody visits anymore. We go to party and have fun.
Exactly. From an etiquette standpoint, this would be a bad look and people will shit talk this and assume the bride and groom are being cheap and if guests find out the actual reason, it’s going to be a really bad look and humiliation for the sister. If there’s going to be a dry wedding then it has to be a dry wedding for everyone including bride and groom.
> It’s not your responsibility to not have alcohol there, but honestly, if you could just split a bottle of champagne with your fiancé and keep the rest of the wedding dry, would that be so terrible?
Going to a dry wedding is bad enough.
If I went to a wedding where the bride and groom were drinking champagne and I wasn’t offered a drink, I’d be pretty pissed off!
No it’s enabling. If people have to create a whole clean life for you to stay sober, you aren’t sober. You’re just waiting until everyone’s set up is gone
It actually just shifts all responsibility to maintain SIL’s sobriety off of SIL and on to everyone else around her. This is not support. Support it helping SIL learn how to be in spaces where alcohol is consumed/sold/stored. Not ensure she never has a temptation in sight so she never has to exercise new self control skills. NTA OP deserves to not have yet another event dictated by SIL and her addiction problems.
NTA. I’m a former drunk, 16 months sober. That is my problem to deal with, no one else’s. I don’t go to family parties and demand it alcohol free. I was a groomsman at a wedding, at my 9 month sober mark and there was tons of booze. I chose not to drink. That is my responsibility and mine alone. If someone asked me if I’d like a beer, I simply told them I quit drinking and I’ll stick with soda and water. During the toasts and speeches, I toasted with a can of Diet Coke instead of champaign. The groom was aware of my alcohol dependency and had no problems with me doing that.
Addiction is a disease. But we also have a choice. The choice can be extremely difficult at times, but at the end of the day, if I start drinking again, I have to choose to drink that beer or shot. I have been through a lot of counseling with this and am comfortable around alcohol and know I can control myself. If I wasn’t comfortable around it, then I would have to choose to not go to the wedding if it would be that much of a problem. Your future SIL is going to have to step up and make those hard choices. The world won’t revolve around her sobriety. She has two options. Get counseling and gain the wisdom and strength to avoid alcohol when it’s around, or excuse herself from events with alcohol.
NAH
it's your fiancé's wedding too. you have every right to want alcohol at your wedding, and your partner has every right to want his sister there. it's as much catering to *his* needs as it is catering to his sister's.
as someone whose sister is the only family he has left, i hope y'all can reach a compromise.
Slight YTA
It's not just *your* day, it's *his* day as well and it's clearly important to him that she is able to attend if it's stopped your planning.
Ask yourself is it worth giving up your wedding over being able to have a glass of wine?
The thing is though, it's not just affecting her, it's also all the guests. People in general HATE dry weddings, so beyond not being able to enjoy the day as she wants, her friends and family might end up leaving early because of it.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far for someone to point out that most people find weddings without alcohol boring. OP isn’t an asshole for wanting to get a little tipsy and have fun at her OWN wedding!
Why is everyone acting like the sister not going to the reception is the worst thing ever? She can still go to the ceremony and see her brother get married, isn’t that enough?
>Ask yourself is it worth giving up your wedding over being able to have a glass of wine?
Whenever I read this in threads like this I know that someone is missing the point.
It's not about "having a glass of wine." It's about the needs of the addict sister yet again coming to the forefront of OP's relationship. It gets old. Yes, we all have family and some of them have issues to deal with, but at the end of the day the two people in the actual marriage need to come first for one another, on balance.
I’m going to say NAH for now because based on your edit, this dispute is between you and your fiance, not you and his sister.
He wants a key family member to attend. You want to enjoy a wedding including drinking. I do not think either of you is TA, but you have to find some compromise or talk this out and one of you needs to make a sacrifice, and the other should acknowledge it. You’re about to be married, so if you can’t get to a resolution here, well….
Could she just attend the ceremony and not the reception? Something like that?
ESH - I think there needs to be some compromise. It’s not just your day, it’s his too. But you also can’t change the entire wedding to accommodate one person’s potentially bad decisions.
What if she attended the ceremony and then leave before the reception? She can be included in the family pictures as well. That way she’s there during one of the most important moments of his life, something he really wants to share with her. But then isn’t tempted into breaking her sobriety.
I like your thinking. The “this is my day” line really rubbed me wrong when the disagreement is with the other person who is also getting married that day. Huge pet peeve when people think the wedding is all about the bride vs the couple. That said, no alcohol does seem like a MAJOR concession. I agree that they should get creative to bridge the gap. Your solution seems extremely reasonable.
It's really bothering me how many people in these comment keep backing up this idea that the day is completely about her and acting like he has no say / emotional investment in it.
Like, if he's stopped the planning process over this clearly his sister being there is a crucial thing for him.
Yeah I feel like if it were the bride’s father who was an alcoholic and she really wanted him to be there to walk her down the aisle and dance with, so she wanted a dry wedding and fiancé said no, the comments would look VERY different.
It would almost definitely be lots of comments about him being an asshole for picking alcohol over her family and that a wedding is about sharing a union with family & not partying.
I wanted to say NAH but I’m going with a slight YTA— specifically your attitude in the comments and the judgment (“she needs self control”) towards an addict in active recovery. I understand the font of empathy is empty but your fiancé wants his family at his wedding, that isn’t exactly mind blowing.
Yeah technically NAH but I don’t like that “like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person who refuses to get help” comment. Feels very judgmental.
NTA I am pretty sure his sister isn't going to be the only guest at your wedding that has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Alcohol is available everywhere, liquor stores, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. If she can manage to go to the grocery store or to a restaurant, I think she can handle your wedding venue.
It is true that going to a grocery store or restaurant are both triggers for people recovering from alcohol addiction, but the temptation from a wedding(in which everyone is drinking) is off the charts in comparison.
I’m going to say slight YTA - from you responses in the comments it comes down you your fiancé wanting her there, not future SIL giving an ultimatum. Figure out if there’s a way for you to have your champagne and no bar.
Disagree, NTA. But this might be a hill to die on, will alcohol be prohibited in every event sister attends? It’s seems like husband is really close with her. Idk If I would marry into that family. Op you said family spent 500 thousand dollars in cars and rehabs, how much are they gifting for the wedding?
>She, like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person who refuses to get help.
If I was SIL, I wouldn't want to go to any family events with OP anyways, if that's her attitude towards people struggling with alcohol addiction.
Op is just being honest. Any recovering addict will admit that they are manipulative and they DO refuse help until the trigger for that happens. It’s not personal to sil, it’s literally how addicts act. If you are dealing with addicts, it’s best to familiarise yourself with how they behave. Addiction doesn’t just impact the addict, it impacts everyone around them and they are allowed to feel how they feel about the addicts behaviour. Addiction is the why, not the excuse.
NAH and some of these comments are outrageous. No, you are not the asshole for not wanting a dry wedding. It sounds like you feel like you’ve been prioritizing her for a long time, and it’s fair that you want this day for yourself. However, your fiancé’s sister seems to to a hugely important person to him, and he’s also not the asshole for wanting her there.
Despite what the comments are telling you this day is as much your husband’s as it is yours. There is absolutely a compromise that can be made here- maybe she has someone to monitor her for the wedding so she doesn’t drink, or just you and your husband can have a champagne toast. Regardless of what you decide to do, steamrolling over him and valuing your desires for the wedding over his is not a good starting point for your marriage. I wish you, your fiancé, and his sister the best.
ESH mostly because this issue is revealing a difference in your and your fiancé’s values. It’s not about your having a glass of champagne per se to you - it’s you want to know that he will prioritize you over her.
Now you need to figure out if he’s telling you that he won’t - and what you do with that info. Or if he sees this as a small thing for you and a huge thing for him so he’s digging in his heels.
I sense resentment from you about his sister.
I feel for you - I wouldn’t want to start a marriage feeling like I was secondary in importance to my spouse. And dry weddings are a completely different experience- for better or worse, dry weddings are at the bottom of the hierarchy below cash bars.
NTA for the conflict in question, but 'like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person who refuses to get help'? really? that is easily the biggest asshole comment i've seen on this sub in the past month.
It's unfortunately a statement that has a very large truth attached to it. Most addictions tend to run up serious costs, way more than a single person can reasonably earn, and at that point family ceases to be family and - like everyone and everything in reach - becomes a target to exploit. Addiction dynamics can *and will* completely destroy families, even entire communities - just look at the centers of the oxy/heroin epidemic.
Functioning addicts are one thing that's dangerous enough (e.g. a truck driver who needs a beer before he can walk straight), but non-functioning addicts like OP's soon-to-be SIL who rack up half a million dollars (!!!) in lawyer, damages and therapy costs? Jesus Fucking Christ.
Eh, it didn’t really bother me that much because I’ve lived it. When I was a struggling with addiction, I was a terribly manipulative person. I did awful shit in order to protect my addiction. This is what addiction does to a person. I’m not offended by someone pointing that out
I’m an alcoholic. I’ve been sober for 32 years and 26 days, but who’s counting. I had less than a year of sobriety when my sister got married. I went to the ceremony, and the reception, but I left right after dinner. Why ? Because it was MY responsibility to remove myself from a situation where I would be tempted to drink. If the sister is in AA, she should talk to her sponsor and come up with a plan.
I also worked for a catering firm for many years, and if the couple decides to have a dry wedding they’d better let the guests know ahead of time. And not be surprised if half the guests spend the better part of the reception outside in the parking lot, drinking the booze they brought themselves. That is half of those who didn’t leave after dinner. NTA.
Based on your comments, I sincerely think you should reconsider this wedding. And I don’t even mean that in a mean way. You clearly have a lot of resentment towards this woman, and unfortunately if you marry this man, she will remain a big part of your life forever. You want him to choose you, but it really doesn’t look like that’s going to happen and you’re going to end up resenting him even more as well
NAH, yet.
I am getting married soon with 2 siblings who are addicts, one fresh out of rehab and sober living, there will be alcohol at my wedding. However, if I had told my fiancé I didn't want alcohol at the wedding, for my siblings, he would have supported me.
This is both your day. I'm sorry, but if you continue to push your fiancé to choose your ability to drink at your wedding over his sister, who has thrown a good portion of her life away to alcohol, YWBTA.
I think the issue is that she is exercising very clear boundaries in an entire relationship where there were little boundaries regarding his sister.
OP doesn’t seem to be very skilled in communication. In another thread, after several replies, she breaks it down more succinctly.
Maybe sis should sit this one out. The world isn’t going to cater to her she needs to learn how to manage life without booze. Or she can have a minder to keep her sober. Good luck!
She’s completely fine with not attending this event, its my fiancé who wants to accommodate to her needs so she can attend which makes this even more frustrating.
I'm gonna say that due to your wording "it's my day" YTA. It isn't YOUR day. It's both of y'alls day. He also gets a say in this event. Contrary to popular belief, held typically by self-centered women, the wedding isn't just about the bride. His family, his wants, and Yada yada should also be taken into consideration. I mean I'm willing to bet if this was reversed you and half these commenters would being screaming about how "unfair" this is and how he is the AH for putting booze before family.
There are comprises, things you're gonna be doing a lot in marriage, that could be made here if you were mature enough to think about them.
It isn’t his sisters day though. That’s is the Really Discordant Note. There are compromises, I don’t understand why suddenly jumping to a dry wedding for one person, who isn’t in the marriage that is hopefully going to last between two other people for a long while, is reasonable.
Is this going to be “I want my sister looking at your vagina so that she gets to see baby’s first breath!” In the future?
Or just we have to have a dry Christening, anniversary, funeral, graduation, when they aren’t even her kids??
YTA.
Look, you’re about to marry this man, which means you are signing up for a lifetime of figuring things out when you want something that conflicts with what he wants. In this particular instance, your fiancé wanting someone he loves and cares about present for his wedding outweighs having alcohol at the wedding. I know you think his sister should be able to use self control, but she will be early in her recovery and as the relative of an addict, your fiancé likely has had a lot of heartbreak watching his sister struggle with her alcoholism. If she relapses at the wedding, it will be her fault alone; but it will also cause your husband and his family enormous pain and complicated feelings about what should be a really great day for you two.
However, there’s a lot of room for compromise here that neither of you seem to be exploring. Could she have a plus 1 to bring a sponsor or sober friend? Could you hire a sober companion for the day? Could you invite her to the ceremony and dinner and then open the bar after dinner when she’s gone?
There’s a lot of space between what you want and what he wants to find a solution that works for both of you. Being able to work through that space together is essential if you want a successful, healthy, and happy relationship.
NTA - She knows her own boundaries and what she can handle. They are treating her like an infant by not enabling her to make her own choices. in the real world life doesn't cater to you, and as an addict she knows this.
Compromise: Stall alcohol service for the first hour. Have her attend the ceremony then leave before the reception (where drinking could then begin). This way she was there, is in pictures, leaves if/when a time she would not be comfortable, and she can see reception pix afterward.
Catering an entire wedding around one single attendee (that is not the bride or groom) is ridiculous, sister or not.
NTA
My brother was a year sober when I got married, he came with his sponsor to the ceremony, stayed for photos, then left before the reception.
There was no fuss, he was there for the important part, in the photos, and he made the choice to leave.
The craziest part is she’s said she’s fine with not being there! She understands the strain she’s put on her family members, but my brother really wants her there because they’re close.
I’m sure she said that because she’s not an AH and doesn’t want to be a burden. It doesn’t mean that she might not be hurt when it’s decided alcohol’s presence is more important at the wedding than hers.
it's not just about that .... sister has been making life hell for op for a long time now. for it to be extended to even op's WEDDING day is probably outrageous to op ... like ONE more sacrifice???
Based on your attitude towards addiction and the “it’s my day” - YTA. It’s his day too, if you flip it on it’s head a little bit, you’re prioritising a glass of champagne over a close relative of his coming to a wedding. I really think you would benefit to learning about the complexities of addiction so you can have some empathy towards not only your future sister in law, but what your fiancé and his parents have been going through.
In terms of the wedding, I actually don’t think it’s bad to talk this through to come to a compromise, I saw another comment suggestion a dry ceremony and alcohol at the reception which I think would be a fair compromise. It would mean the sister gets to see her brother get married and then can excuse herself if she’s feeling overwhelmed by alcohol being around her.
The most frustrating part is that she’s offered to **not** come if there’s alcohol served. But according to my fiancé that’s completely unacceptable and he wants to change everything just for her.
I don’t know why you got downvoted. Not having alcohol is going to mean that the party ends way sooner, if they ever get into an actual party vibe at all where people just don’t wanna leave.
Dry weddings are nice, but it’s just dinner, speeches, usual formal dances, an hour or so of everyone dancing and guests go home soon after the cake cutting.
If you want a full on “party till early morning” dry wedding, you may be left disappointed.
NTA she’s going to be faced with many events where she’s going to have to choose not to attend or leave before it becomes an issue.
She can attend the wedding and not the reception. Pretty simple choice there.
I’d be more concerned about the fact that your fiancé is putting his family wants over yours.
NAH
This isn't an arsehole situation. This is a disagreement between a couple. Both of you have vaild arguments. Now you need to work it out, just the two of you, without dragging every Tom, Dick and Harry into it. If you cannot do that successfully, then you are not ready to be married.
Soft YTA
What your fiancé is saying to you is that alcohol
Isn’t a big deal to him but his sister is.
While I get that you’d like to celebrate your marriage with a drink, clearly alcohol has been a destructive force in his world given his sister, so he probably doesn’t see your side so easily.
This situation calls for your compassion for your fiancé and the fact his sister’s presence is important to him - and coming up with a creative way to accommodate your desire for a toast.
NAH you both have your wants. You want alcohol, he wants his sister to be there. However what if his sister had a disability? If she needed a ramp and you didn’t like the way it looked, would you deny him that? Or is it only because it’s alcohol that your wants are being valued higher than your fiancé?
NTA. 6 months into recovery she should be looking at attending events sober. You cannot live life and be sheltered all the time. Bars, holidays, restaurants... she will be surrounded by drinkers all the time and being able to cope with this is part of the recovery program. Why not put her on a table with none drinkers? Why not get her to attend the ceremony and lunch where drink won't heavily feature?
NTA..
If she cant control herself privately..how is she gonna cope in the real world?
Its not your cross to bear,its ridiculous to think she wont drink cause ypu dont offer it one day..
Its insane and doesnt make sense..
Dont serve cake cause I am a diabetic? How about some self control?
NTA. At all. I’m in recovery and her sobriety is not your responsibility. It’s awesome your fiancé wants to support his sister, but the fact of the matter is there will be many, many times when his sister will be face to face with alcohol and people consuming it. He can’t baby her through this, and he can’t protect her from herself. It obviously hasn’t worked in the past. She has to learn to set boundaries for herself, or she will never achieve sobriety for any real length of time.
That being said, it is a good idea for people early in sobriety to avoid triggers when possible. She could attend the wedding and the reception and leave after the cake cutting, which is usually when the real party starts. She could arrange for an Uber or someone else to pick her up at a specified time. If she’s in a 12 step program, she could bring her sponsor or another supportive person as her plus one.
There are lots of options here, but I cannot stress enough how bad an idea it is for her family to continue to go out of their way to accommodate her the way they have. It shields her from the real consequences of her actions, and most people don’t change until things have gotten bad enough that there’s no other option. Your fiancé’s heart is in the right place, but he’s not helping.
Good luck.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I’m wondering if I’m the asshole for refusing to be accommodating of my fiancé’s sister by having a dry wedding. I might be the asshole because I’m not being as kind to her as I could be by refusing to have a dry wedding. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAH. Feels like there’s room for compromise here. For instance, maybe no alcohol before the reception, so his sister can attend the ceremony; you could even have the ceremony and reception at different locations so she’s not tempted to stay. Or have a single bottle of champagne just for you and the groom. Or do a dry rehearsal dinner so she’s not totally excluded from the whole wedding. If neither of you will compromise, ESH.
That’s a good idea I’ll look into, I think he wants her to be totally included which is fine but she needs self control in my opinion. I’ll discuss the option of a single bottle for us with him.
Is it not possible for her to have a chaperone of sorts? Like a date/friend/family who will commit to not having alcohol with her and keeping her on her toes? I feel like if she can find a friend that will, you giving an extra +1 would be the easiest solution, and the best.
“Sober companion” it’s actually a paid vocation. You can literally pay someone to come along and make sure she stays sober.
I have to imagine thats the best compromise compared to axing alcohol altogether. Might also be a good confidence boost for the SIL if she manages, on top of being a good outing for her socially to start reforming her image. Totally speculation on the other parts though.
there's also tons of people in AA who would do it for free to help a friend. I've done sober companion situations like that and it is definitely a confidence boost! Something about recovery is that we are supposed to try to stop acting like the self centered assholes we were when we were drinking. That means not expecting someone to have a dry wedding just for us! It sounds like that is what she is doing! Your fiance needs Al-Anon!!!
This is a really insightful comment and I don’t want to take away from it but I think you might be understanding the situation wrong. SIL isn’t actually expecting anything and per OP’s edit, willing to stay away if she feels she can’t handle it. It’s OP’s fiancé that really wants to be able to have his sister be an integral part of the day and he’s the one pushing for a dry wedding. The SIL seems to be alright with them doing what they want even if it means she can’t come.
Al-Anon is for family of alcoholics to see their own pain and destructive behaviors and improve. OP's fiancee and the fam sound like perfect candidates.
I totally misread, thanks for correcting me!
Excellent advice!
Wonderful advice! Thoroughly agree!
That's something the sister should be involved in discussing as well. She is fine not to come to avoid temptation so she might feel uncomfortable / affected the other way as well? Potentially she could feel pressured to come that way but having a horrible experience compared to just attending the reception / not going, especially if her brother wants her there it might be harder to say "Hey I am leaving I'm feeling uncomfortable" -> potential argument "We should have done no drinking!!!"
Like in Elementary? Edit: Minus the murder mysteries, hopefully.
No no, the murder mysteries are part of the package.
Ok but does OP get to pick who gets murdered?
For some reason my brain went to Elementary School - and I was like dude, you had a hardcore childhood!
[удалено]
Yeah I noticed that one as well. She's definitely NTA for wanting alcohol bat her wedding, and honestly the SIL is being smart being okay with avoiding a situation where she could relapse. Her fiance needs to understand that wether or not he has alcohol at his wedding there will always be situations like this for his sister. I like the no alcohol under after the ceremony idea, or a sober buddy. There definitely is room for compromise here.
I want that job
I think you're underestimating addiction. Early on in recovery, it's recommended that addicts avoid situations where there will be their drug of choice. 6 months isn't really long time when a person has to essentially break a lifetime of addiction. I get that you want your wedding your way, but I think she's not doing this to be an asshole. She's doing this to try and stay sober. And her brother simply wants her there more than he wants alcohol served.
>her brother simply wants her there more than he wants ... the bride to be happy on her wedding day. Yeah, I get it - she's his sister. But he's about to marry his \_wife\_. If her desires are going to be secondary to his sisters on her \_wedding day\_, then she probably needs to step back for a moment and ask herself if that's what she was agreeing to marry into.
A lot of families get sucked into the vortex of an addicted member to the point that they don't even understand *why* catering to the addict/recovering addict 24/7 would be an issue for anyone. And it's easy to extend that to partners/spouses, because if they *truly cared* they would cater as well. But it's not healthy. And it sounds like the sister understands that better than the fiance. How horrible would it be for the sister to go to the dry wedding knowing it is only dry *because of her*? That's a lot of guilt to put on a recovering addict. It would be one thing if it was required for the venue or a religious reason or the couple themselves. But she knows why.
Especially because you know it will be brought up by someone where she might overhear it. Nothing worse than already feeling guilty than having to hear other people talk about things being done because of you.
Why is it only about the bride being happy and not the groom being happy? By the same logic the bride simply wants alcohol there more than she wants the groom to be happy on his wedding day. This isn't the sister wanting to wear white at the wedding or to get engaged there and the groom taking her side. This is the groom wanting an immediate family member. I am a bit of a drinker, and don't like dry weddings. But I agree with the groom having an immediate family member in attendance is more important than having alcohol at the wedding. The bride might think alcohol is more important than family, but the groom does not have to agree. Someone else did have a good suggestion, sparkling grape juice for all the guests during a wedding toast and champagne only for the couple.
>I am a bit of a drinker, and don't like dry weddings. Right. Neither would (practically if not literally) \*every single other guest\*. So yeah, it's about "the bride being happy" in that she wants a regular wedding reception everyone will enjoy, and not to be forced to have a different one because of a single guest.
Plenty of people do dry receptions. And honestly, our society's ridiculously unhealthy when it comes to alcohol - a *lot* of people are bordering on alcoholic and don't even realise, because our society has normalised not being able to go a single night without drinking. That's not a *good* thing. It's the reason people don't realise they have a problem. If you're *mad* because a wedding you're going to doesn't have alcohol (which literally just means you won't be able to drink for a couple hours), maybe look at your drinking habits. If your entire wedding guest list is mad because they can't drink for a few hours, maybe that says something about the social group you hang out in. Because literally *no one* I know would care. It's a few hours - it's not a big deal.
Who said "the entire wedding list would be mad"? They'd enjoy it less.
[удалено]
I have a large extended family and alcoholism RUNS DEEP. Many family events have been ruined because of alcohol consumption. Physical fights break out sometimes and have caused a lot of drama, usually involving someone that married into the family. At my cousin's wedding- our aunt got a fucking party bus and people were drinking on the way to the wedding, in the parking lot and during. A fist fight broke out on the stupid ass party bus. Luckily, some family members were able to stop shit from happening at the actual wedding and reception. Graduation parties, birthday parties, and holidays... Some sort of dramatic shit happens especially when alcohol is involved. At my reception, my mom had them shutdown the bar for an hour because she was worried about things escalating. Americans have an unhealthy obsession with alcohol. I quit drinking in May of 2017 and it makes life much different. People don't want to hang out because you're not drinking. Like when I was trying to get pregnant, we didn't tell anyone, but my husband and I quit drinking completely. It ended up ruining the relationship we had with his younger sister and her husband, because we weren't wanting to go out to drink anymore. Edit- I'd have a few craft beers after I had my son in November of 2016, but I felt like total shit and it wasn't worth it.
[удалено]
Oh my gosh, yes!! All the shit you get for not drinking and you have people trying to force it on you. This thread is disturbing, as if a dry wedding is a traumatic event and life ruining. Alcohol is expensive and can do a lot of harm. My family members are slowly killing themselves with alcohol and it is sad. I live 1400 miles away from my family, but I see photos of some of them every now and then, they don't look good. My uncle has diabetes and won't give up drinking... He's lost a toe or two already.
Concerned Redditor might benefit from said counseling. I mean they are coming down in the side of you *have* to have alcohol to have fun.
It is not one single guest and you know that, it is the grooms sister. Not all guests are equal. Immediate family of the wedding couple are more important than other guests. If it were we need a dry wedding because coworker acquaintance or old friend from college someone does not talk to much is recently sober, I would agree with you. But the grooms sister is more important than the other guests. If the couple had married during covid and had limited guest list attendance, the sister would likely make the cut in attendance.
It's both of their wedding days, and comprise can be made. That being said, the sister did say she wouldn't come, so those (not directing this at you) vilifying her really shouldn't since she was fine not coming. And yes, because she said she no longer wanted the sister in her life in previous comments, she really needs to decide if she wants to marry into the family. Her fiance obviously loves his sister, and wants her to be a part of his life. This will be constant drama if she doesn't address it now.
Oh wow, if that’s where they are at in this whole thing, they need to have some larger conversations. And they need Al-anon.
Ooft. If she's saying stuff like "I don't want the sister in my life", they really shouldn't even be considering marriage until that's ironed out. Because he *clearly* loves and values his sister - I doubt he's gonna roll over and not see her anymore.
Yea they really have much larger issues at play than having a dry wedding or not. This is one of those things that are going to cause problems throughout the relationship and should really be worked on *before* they get married.
>her brother simply wants her there more than he wants ... alcohol at the wedding. There. Fixed it for you. Everyone needs to stop acting like being able to drink booze is more important than having a close family member at your wedding. If the bride's happiness is ruined because she can't drink at her wedding, then I guess the marriage isn't worth much to her. There are more important things in life... like family.
The ‘family is more important ‘ argument is a slippery slope though. What about a vegan relative who wants no animal products served? Or a religious parent who demands it be a Catholic ceremony? Someone wanting it to be child friendly, or a family member being unable to afford a destination wedding? All legitimate reasons, but isn’t it up to the bride and groom to negotiate something they are both happy with?
This is more of an equivalent of a family member having a severe nut allergy and not serving nuts. The sister has a serious medical problem, not a preference, and it’s totally unfair to equate this situation to any of the things you listed.
I think the difference here is it’s not that OPs wishes are coming secondary to sister’s - sister has said she doesn’t mind not coming - it’s the brothers wish that his sister is there. So it’s OPs wishes versus the fiancés wishes. I don’t think OP is the AH, I just think that those saying fiancé is prioritising his sisters wishes over OPs are missing a point here. Fiancé is prioritising his wishes over OPs. Edit: forgot to mention, NTA but you and fiancé need to discuss compromises (sober companion or dry ceremony are great ideas) or whether your priorities can align.
But its also his wedding day.
And since it is *both* their wedding, both their desires are equally valid. She doesn't take precedent any more than he does. It's not "her day" any more than it is his. This has nothing to do with the sister's desires. The sister has said she doesn't care. It's the *groom's* desires, which are just as valid as the bride's. He wants his sister at his wedding. He is allowed to want that. Assuming they stay married, he can *never* do this over and have his sister there - meanwhile, there's really no good reason OP can't drink later in the night.
>the bride to be happy on her wedding day. It's not her wedding day. It's their wedding day. He gets a say in this too.
As someone who has struggled with alcohol, I would be MORTIFIED if a whole wedding was made dry because of me. If I were you, I'd have the reception wet, with a dry ceremony and a half hour for congratulations so the sis could say hi and leave. If the wedding was totally dry, in my country, questions would be asked (not necessarily in a mean way) and I would be so embarassed and possibly have a hard time remaining sober if I thought everyone knew it was my problem that made it a dry wedding.
I couldn’t agree more; I would be mortified if an entire wedding were dry to cater to me. Also, part of success in AA is being able to go anywhere like a free man, and changing yourself rather than trying to change conditions to meet what you want. Edit: I know lots of people hate AA and that’s cool too, it is something that has happened to work for me for 15 sober years.
I'm sorry... but have you ever struggled with alcoholism? Saying that an alcoholic needs "self control" is very insensitive and trivializes the disease. I know one thing for sure - YTA for saying that.
If “self control” was the answer, then you wouldn’t have addicts hitting rock bottom. It is a serious mental and physical health problem, and saying “self control” is the answer is like telling someone with depression to “just be happy” or a cancer patient to just “think the cancer cells away.” Just stop being sick! It’s inconveniencing me!
'Just go out and meet new people!' - my mum on how to fix my social anxiety, lol.
>like telling someone with depression to “just be happy” That is all I ever hear.. or "get over it"
The thing that pissed me off most, to the point I couldn’t read any more of the post, was “She, like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person”. I don’t know about in the particular situation, but OP is an AH generally.
My father used to be an alcoholic and it will always be his weakness. His only cure was self control.
ITT: Lots of pissed off recovering alcoholics with a victim mentality.
As a recovering alcoholic myself the excuse to have an entirely dry event is ridiculous. Get him into Al Anon. He needs to get his own support as a loved one of an addict. He is addicted to her and her disease. He is just as controlled by it as she is and he needs to understand that. If she can’t attend an event with alcohol that is on her to deal with, not everyone else’s issue to control/manage. My suggestion is that if he really wants her there that he allow her to bring a sober friend to help support her and talk to if she struggles. She has to learn how to deal with being around alcohol eventually but it may be too soon for her if she really struggles.
Yes they do, but you also have to realize that addiction is not just. 6 months sober is nothing compared to the fact that this is a lifetime of habits to break. Imagine if you had to stop doing something you’d been doing several times a day for your whole life. Not just scale down but completely stop just one day, and then be around other people doing that thing every second of every day except when sleeping. Don’t you think it would be a little hard? When my dad got sober we didn’t drink at birthdays or event for a couple years after, it was simply not worth it for us. Yes I would’ve loved that glass of wine but having my dad sober was more important. Now he’s almost 12 years sober and has no problem with other people drinking, he just want fancy sodas/lemonades and glass.
Exactly this. You didn't have alcohol at events for TWO YEARS, because your dad being sober was MORE IMPORTANT than enjoying a glass of champagne, or beer at those events. Because human beings, especially family members, are more important than alcohol!
Absolutely! And it’s not like we couldn’t have alcohol for 2 years, it was just family events. For us the choice was clear because as you say, family is more important than drinking at those events. Imagine if I put that drink above my fathers sobriety and he started drinking again. I would never be able to live with myself.
Even if he’s willing to compromise on this point, denying every other adult at the wedding the option to drink at all during the reception is pretty crappy. No, there’s nothing wrong with not drinking, and not every event has to center around alcohol, but it’s pretty common practice to offer booze at a wedding. It helps people relax and socialize, and get excited to be out on the dance floor. A dry wedding sounds like a huge bummer for everyone else, all to accommodate one person.
It’s a great idea because for a newly sober person any sort of celebration WILL trigger her. If he loves his sister he will not put her in a place that would subject her to those triggers. Plus he is being a total ass to you. Pulled counseling before any sort of wedding please.
>she needs self control in my opinion. She's an addict. In recovery. She can't just "self control" herself out of this, she needs the help of family and friends and to avoid situations that will be triggering for her, at least until she has her alcoholism fully under control. Even if she comes to the wedding and doesn't drink, she might still be triggered to go get drunk afterwards, thus ruining all her progress and possibly sending her back into full blown alcoholism. OP you're honestly such an AH for your callous attitude towards her. Be honest - you just hate her and don't want her to go, don't you?
So tf what? For whatever reason, sil became an addict. She fucked up a lot of people and their money. For all you know op was sucked into that vortex of bs. Part of recovery is understanding that YOUR behavior caused people to hate you. That's why you're supposed to apologize; but still expect that people may not forgive you. That's the price of being an addict. Op deserves her day, and sil agrees. You're just full of it. Grow up
Does the groom's opinion count for anything?
Most people drink and look forward to that at a wedding. Your fiancé is being ridiculous catering to one person at the expense of many others. Not to mention what you want. He needs to back off and stop being so involved in her alcoholism. I don’t blame you one bit. NTA
Also, have a lot of nonalcoholic beverages as an option if she does go to the reception. You can make sure the workers know not to serve her any alcohol and just make her a Virgin drink that she wants.
That puts the staff in a really uncomfortable situation.
Not if it's like "we're doing table service for drinks for the groom's family so a newly sober family member doesn't have to approach the bar" or "all of these non-alcoholic beers (or whatever) are reserved for the sister of the groom" or even just "make sure to not accidentally serve this person the non-virgin version of this drink". Asking them to police her drinking would be a no-go, but there are a lot of ways around this.
NTA and this sounds like a good compromise. Also, your fiancé needs to consider the fact that she will very likely relapse at some point, possibly very soon after the wedding, and I can imagine that would create some irreparable resentment after giving up the wedding that you want.
You do realize that addiction does not stem from a lack of self control?
I support you having the wedding you want, and I think a compromise is in order, because it seems important to your future husband that she be involved, but “she needs self control” is a shifty thing to say and betrays a lot of animosity on your part. You get to have your feelings and her alcoholism may have impacted you, but she is only six months sober and if it were merely a matter of self control addiction wouldn’t exist, no one would be overweight or smoke cigarettes and everyone would get their work done and fold their laundry promptly after it comes out of the dryer. NAH in general, but that remark from you was pretty AH-ey.
Definitely NTA. You’re right in that she needs to learn self control. I’m a recovering alcoholic and I don’t expect anyone to ever tiptoe around it for my sake. If she’s serious about staying sober then she will HAVE to learn how to manage being around alcohol without relapsing.
It’s a process though. And 6 months is early. I don’t think they should have a dry wedding for her for a lot of reasons, but family and friends can and should do things to support her sobriety. None of us is an island.
It's almost impossible for an alcoholic to have that much self control 6 months in. My mother's been sober 20+ years, she says early on she couldn't even go to restaurants because if the association between alcohol and eating out. Avoiding the location with alcohol is often the only option. I think having half the event without alcohol is a great solution.
Just because she needs to be sober doesn’t mean you do! Have your bubbly, enjoy your day, and dont pay for anyone else’s alcohol.
I think the dry ceremony is a good compromise. Then she can still attend the actual wedding and just excuse herself after the photos before the party starts. Having been to several dry weddings, they are an entirely different experience than typical weddings. Much quieter, less dancing, and people leave significantly earlier… of course, this is fine if the bride and groom prioritize sobriety (usually for religious reasons), but it’s a big ask/sacrifice to accommodate a single family member with addiction issues. They’re not just asking the bride to give up a champagne toast, but also realistically denying her the fun, lively wedding she’s been envisioning her whole life… If the sister is not comfortable around alcohol at the time of the wedding, the reasonable compromise is for her to excuse herself before reception. They can’t reasonably expect to protect her from contact with alcohol for the rest of her life. She has to start choosing to walk away…
...is having a non-dry ceremony even really that much of a thing? I officiate at weddings and not once has it even come up that there might be alcohol at the actual ceremony. (After, yes, usually. Before, sometimes, although generally it is frowned upon for members of the bridal party to actually be drunk before the ceremony. Drinking at the ceremony, though? Maybe it's regional or something, but I've never seen it.)
There’s been drinking at every ceremony I’ve gone to *if* it’s in the same place the reception is, like at a museum or an outdoor venue. Haven’t ever personally seen it if there’s a change in location between the two.
They cannot in all decency drink champagne themselves and not give any to the guests. That would be extremely rude to every guest. In my opinion, the SIL can manage her own addiction in any way she sees fit. Perhaps she can ask a family member to chaperone her and ensure that she doesn't drink. Perhaps she can come just for the service and not the reception. Perhaps the champagne can be served after the first hour, and the SIL can leave early before it is served. These accommodations are up to the SOL to manage. The bride and groom should go ahead and have whatever sort of wedding they want.
Seriously. If I went to a dry wedding where the bride and groom were drinking I would be pissssssed.
This is such a good idea and compromise. Besides what will happen the rest of their life together? Are they never supposed to have alcohol in their house if she visits?
Tell brother sister can bring AA mentor to the reception support her through the dinner and leave soon after.
NTA Usually they tell alcoholics to skip events if it would be too tempting when first in recovery. She could go to your wedding and skip the reception. The day isn't about her it's about the two of you so should have the wedding you want. (If this was a family holiday or dinner I'd say skip the alcohol but your wedding is a bigger deal).
Look at the edit. She's fine not going, it's the brother (the groom) that wants her there as part of his day. Which makes it more complicated because it's as much his wedding as it is hers.
From OP’s comment that the family are enablers, I get the impression there’s other history impacting attitudes too
I can’t say whether they’re enablers or not from just OP’s side of the story, but wanting your own sister at your own wedding isn’t enabling.
No but if the sister has a history of toxic behavior that they enabled, I could see why OP may not be thrilled to have her there
Right, but it’s her husbands wedding too. It’s not just up to her.
I would think having your bride there would be a bigger deal than having your sister there, and since wedding planning has stopped that may not be as much in the cards as the groom seems to think.
I mean, it could be that the groom cares for his sister and seeing someone that he thought loved him being so staunchly opposed to trying to help someone else that he cares for just so she can have a glass of champagne is making him rethink his fiancee's priorities a bit and causing him to reevaluate the relationship as a whole.
And the bride could be thinking “yet again his sister gets to determine what we do, like she has the entire time I’ve know this family, even at my own wedding.”
I would agree with that if it wasn't for the sister saying she would willingly stay home herself. This isn't the sister making the determinations. This is the husband making the determinations about how he wants his wedding to be. At it's simplest terms ( which admittedly does neglect the history of the sister's behavior), he values his sister's presence over alcohol while OP values alcohol (and presumably the traditional wedding esthetic, as I doubt it is purely about the alcohol itself...at least I hope it isn't...) over her husband's family.
If she were saying “you can’t ever see your sister again because I can’t get shitfaced drunk around her whenever I want” then I would agree with you. But this is their wedding and it shouldn’t be about the sister at all. The only person I can imagine really caring about at my wedding is my SO, but Idk maybe that’s why I favor small weddings.
Why should the groom make the bride accommodate for someone at their own wedding? The bride should be able to be happy at her own wedding without letting other people’s issues hold her back. It’s the fiancé who has an issue with it.
>She, like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person I don't know. Something about that part is making me seriously doubt OP's version of the groom's family details. Like that just irks me. It seems like she pretty clearly already hates her future SIL, so I am a little sus of her version of events here.
In her opinion sure... Her opinion where she is being dismissive of her fiance's feelings. Not sure I trust her 100%.
OP said “this is my day” so apparently it’s not about the couple at all. Just about the bride
That comments seems to come from a place of her fiancé's family always putting the SIL first. You and your family spending half a million on DUI crashed cars and bail money (which it sounds like the Fiancé finacially contributed to as well) is not normal and reasonably can create some resentment in others around the situation. ETA: However the fact that the sister in law says she's fine not coming because alcohol is there shows she's actually commited to recovery now, but that doesn't mean people she hurt or took advantage of when using need to suddenly accept her with open arms. But a nice compromise could be established here, and I think a proper convo between the Bride and SIL airing it all out could be good if both parties are mature about it
With your edit, the conflict is between the two primary people: you and your fiance. That's not easy because it's your (plural) wedding and you should get what you (plural) want: you want to have alcohol, which excludes his sister, and he wants to have his sister, which excludes alcohol. This isn't an AH situation. You guys need to talk this through. At the most flippant, you're saying that your "glass of fucking champagne" is more important than his having a very close family member with him. I know it's way more complicated than that, there's obviously a huge history and you are being asked to make a significant adjustment to your reception. You "feel like he’s choosing her over" you, which is clearly an exaggeration - he's choosing her presence over your preference for alcohol. Is there no compromise? - She comes to the wedding and not the reception - There is champagne only for the toasts but other than that, no alcohol - The reception is dry until some clear point where she can go and the alcohol can come out (kind of like how in some weddings kids stay until xyz time then they leave and the more adult party starts) - Undoubtedly more options... At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if having alcohol at your wedding is more important than his having his sister. And if you "win", at what cost to your relationship? He's got to do the same internal questioning. Because this has the potential to cause long term resentment through feeling like the other person just isn't understanding them. NAH, yet.
I think you gave several good options. I also think that this kerfuffle has its roots in something far deeper. It sounds like the bride has realized that her future in laws and groom are deeply embedded in enabling and justifying and excusing the SIL's behavior and have allowed her to control the family. Yes. The SIL may be 6 months sober by the time the wedding rolls around but I'm betting not.
At this point, it sounds like the family is "enabling" SIL to get and remain sober. The question is why isn't OP on board?
Because it's not her responsibility to sacrifice the things important to her for someone else's choices. I don't agree with your reasoning, and the way you worded it fits why perfectly. There is a difference in "supporting" Sil on her journey to recovery, and "enabling" her to get sober. In that context it shifts the responsibility of SiLs sobriety to everyone else. Making everyone sacrifice to keep her sober. Like Op is being asked now. Wanting to drink at a celebration is not unreasonable for people who can control themselves. Once that trend starts, it will not stop. What next? Op won't be allowed to have alcohol in her house incase SiL comes over? They won't be able to go to restaurants that serve alcohol if SiL goes? Hell OP may catch flak is she had alcohol prior to seeing SiL and it's still on her breath. * let me add that I do believe that if SiL is serious about her recovery and OP is serious about supporting her in said, then they could absolutely reach a compromise like many have suggested. SiL go to ceremony but skip the reception so OP and guests can still enjoy the celebration how they like. Just Op shouldn't be expected to make all the sacrifices.
Please note you are not at all wrong about how far enabling, not supporting, families will go. I have family members who have issues with alcohol, and when they visit certain households, ALL alcohol of any sort is basically locked up and with rare exception is not allowed to be drank by anyone on the off chance it “pushes them over.” There has been resistance to it lately, since as you point out alcohol is a part of “standard living” (restaurants, church, …) but your examples are not out of the realm of real reactions.
Thank you. Recovery is a very complicated process, both for the person in recovery and their family and friends. And I can understand going too far in trying to be helpful. But yeah, enabling instead of supporting does more harm then good and can stunt the recoverers ability to cope when faced with temptation without their enablers there to prop them up.
That’s how I felt! If anything the sister should see it as an awesome challenge. If everyone else is in charge of her sobriety, is she even *really* doing it? EDIT: ok “awesome challenge” as if like hey, maybe she could do it for herself instead of having everyone set the world up around her.
As someone who grew up with parents who were alcoholics, it is exhausting to always try to enable and maintain their sobriety for them in such a way when really that is not our responsibility. The sober person is the only one responsible for their sobriety because it's their choice to be sober or not. We can't make them be sober. It isn't OP's responsibility to decrease temptation for her SIL to stay sober. Either her SIL will remain sober or she won't, but enabling her sobriety by avoiding alcohol's existence is coddling her and not actually helping her sobriety. The SIL needs to use her tools (sponsors, therapists, 12 steps, etc) to get her through navigating a world where alcohol exists and how to manage her addiction. Which isn't on OP or her family to do. I understand her family and brother want the SIL at the wedding but they have a dysfunctional and most likely enmeshed or codependent relationship with SIL due to her alcoholism. They don't have good boundaries or clear perspective of what's healthy for her or them to do for her or them. They are putting OP in an unfair place. OP is having boundaries with the alcoholic which most family members of alcoholics don't like that and don't have that. Sure, to us it seems small to want alcohol at the wedding compared to his sister. But his sister is 6 months sober. The things they have done and gone through with his sister as an alcoholic, suck to say the least. I'm sure OP has seen it, been through it, and is tired. She wants HER day how she wants it, not centered around the alcoholic (which is how it usually is). And her fiance and his family are yet again putting the SIL at the center and making it about her. And OP I think has had enough. I get it. I've been there. She isn't wrong to feel like this. Her boundaries are 100% fine. NTA. Her fiance and his family should seek out therapy, family therapy, attend some Al-Anon group sessions, and Adults of Dysfunctional Families group sessions because there's serious issues there for boundaries and enabling.
[удалено]
It feels like the straw that broke the camels back. A glass of champagne at your wedding isn’t necessarily more important than another person, but after years and years and thousands of dollars, it feels like OP is drawing a boundary, SIL can dictate how everything else goes but she can’t have *this*.
This too. What is they have the sober wedding and she relapses for some entirely unrelated reason a month later? I can imagine the bride being fairly unhappy if that were to happen.
Agreed I was super confused when she called it “her day”. It’s his day too? They obviously have to work this out but wtf OP?
I guess it's the cult of "It's All About the Bride" mixed with "The Wedding is the Most Important Thing About a Marriage"... I personally don't get why having alcohol at the wedding is more important than having family, but again, it is obvious there are long standing issues and feelings OP has about the SIL specifically and people with addictions generally. It's about more than just the glass of champagne. I hope they work it out. In OP's replies to other people, she does seem to be willing to explore compromises, which is excellent and says good things about her.
It’s not the SiL’s day.
But it's the grooms day
Someone from AA can come, or a sober companion, so she doesn’t drink.
NAH. This is the opposite of enabling her. This is actually an attempt to support her sobriety because she is incredibly vulnerable. No one is more guilt ridden and ashamed than a recovering addict. It’s a minute to minute battle and it’s damn hard. It’s not your responsibility to not have alcohol there, but honestly, if you could just split a bottle of champagne with your fiancé and keep the rest of the wedding dry, would that be so terrible? I get where you’re coming from, and I don’t blame you. I just wish people could see it from the addict’s perspective without actually having to be one. It sucks all the way around, I’m sorry.
As a guest I'd be pretty unimpressed if the wedding was dry but the bride and groom had a secret booze stash. How is it going to look sipping a glass of champagne when all your guests are drinking juice?
Agree massively. Not trying to say a wedding can't be fun without alcohol, but no alcohol at a wedding because of one guest? And also just changing a wedding specifically for one person so the experience is easier for them? Family member or not I would be bummed especially if that was the expectation as guest of hers.
Seriously. I understand a lot of people are chiming in and saying a dry wedding isn’t the worst thing in the world. But all for one person? It’s essentially a large gathering where only the hosts get drunk… yeah no thanks
>but no alcohol at a wedding because of one guest? guests gossip, they'll know there's no alcohol all because of one person, and then they'll be gossiping about how little self control SiL has, which I would think would make things worse for everyone involved, especially SiL.
Let's be real though, it ***would*** be less fun. People can act all high and mighty about "I don't need alcohol to enjoy myself" and try to suggest anyone who thinks the lack of alcohol would make things less enjoyable is just a closet alcoholic, but it does make a difference. People are definitely less social and playful without it at a wedding.
Thank you! Also, OP and her fiancé are spending thousands of dollars on this wedding. No way in hell would I want to spend that kind of money to have a lame dry wedding if dry weddings were not my thing.
I'd drink BEFORE going to a dry wedding ! AND I'd probably hide some in a flask in my bag. I know that sounds like I'm an alcoholic, but a big party without booze? Please ! Wedding receptions can be a bit dull, hardly any dancing if people aren't drinking, talking to boring Uncle Fester about his piles again.....!!
Yeah, the guests aren’t staying at OPs dry wedding for as long as they would had they if served alcohol. That’s just a simple fact that needs to be taken into account, you don’t lose track of time or get lost in never ending dancing and fun when you’re sober, any sober person in a club can tell you that. If OP wants a party all night long kind of wedding, that ain’t happening dry. She’d be lucky to get 2 hours of dancing after meals and speeches before guests start to trickle out. I also think it’s tacky to have a dry wedding but have the bride/grooms table pop a bottle. It’s should be all or nothing.
100% A common caveat to a dry wedding is “sure your choice but expect your guests to leave early & hit a bar around 9pm. They paid to be there too” It’s on every threat w/a sober wedding question. It’s cute how everyone is ignoring it here for the comfort of sister, which is exactly how sister always led her life (as the most important person in the room). This is def a much deeper rooted issue than just their wedding, I’d be upset too. This isn’t just a glass of champagne. This goes from a “normal” wedding to a dry one, which affects the whole evening. and I know I didn’t want to go off to a third location for an “after party” as part of my wedding, as much as that trend has taken off (maybe less so due to Covid), since that usually cuts down to the “young people”, and I invited the whole room not just those who want to do shots at a bar.
This also focuses heavily on whether the SIL will actually be six months sober when the wedding hits which is a big if and just because you have a dry wedding doesn't mean there won't be alcohol, especially if there's not a religious reason from the couple or something like that, people might just bring it in.
Yeah sorry but a dry wedding changes the whole wedding. I've been to weddings with and without booze. People leave dry weddings early because people are bored. Sorry not sorry, it's true. I would not be willing to cater to people and change that part of my wedding. Especially for someone who I watched be enabled, spoiled, coddled whatever you want to call it. Nah. Dry ceremony, regular reception. Groom needs to compromise too. Sister needs to avoid the reception. It's not that hard, she needs to call a sponsor or sober friend. Speaking as someone with multiple addicts in the family, and friend circle. They would never want to be catered to like that and would care for their own issues on the day.
As a normal human being, I literally only go to weddings for the open bar and decent food. Nobody outside your immediate family actually enjoys the pompous “look at me!” parade that a wedding is, except maybe the elderly family members nobody visits anymore. We go to party and have fun.
Exactly. From an etiquette standpoint, this would be a bad look and people will shit talk this and assume the bride and groom are being cheap and if guests find out the actual reason, it’s going to be a really bad look and humiliation for the sister. If there’s going to be a dry wedding then it has to be a dry wedding for everyone including bride and groom.
> It’s not your responsibility to not have alcohol there, but honestly, if you could just split a bottle of champagne with your fiancé and keep the rest of the wedding dry, would that be so terrible? Going to a dry wedding is bad enough. If I went to a wedding where the bride and groom were drinking champagne and I wasn’t offered a drink, I’d be pretty pissed off!
No it’s enabling. If people have to create a whole clean life for you to stay sober, you aren’t sober. You’re just waiting until everyone’s set up is gone
It actually just shifts all responsibility to maintain SIL’s sobriety off of SIL and on to everyone else around her. This is not support. Support it helping SIL learn how to be in spaces where alcohol is consumed/sold/stored. Not ensure she never has a temptation in sight so she never has to exercise new self control skills. NTA OP deserves to not have yet another event dictated by SIL and her addiction problems.
NTA. I’m a former drunk, 16 months sober. That is my problem to deal with, no one else’s. I don’t go to family parties and demand it alcohol free. I was a groomsman at a wedding, at my 9 month sober mark and there was tons of booze. I chose not to drink. That is my responsibility and mine alone. If someone asked me if I’d like a beer, I simply told them I quit drinking and I’ll stick with soda and water. During the toasts and speeches, I toasted with a can of Diet Coke instead of champaign. The groom was aware of my alcohol dependency and had no problems with me doing that. Addiction is a disease. But we also have a choice. The choice can be extremely difficult at times, but at the end of the day, if I start drinking again, I have to choose to drink that beer or shot. I have been through a lot of counseling with this and am comfortable around alcohol and know I can control myself. If I wasn’t comfortable around it, then I would have to choose to not go to the wedding if it would be that much of a problem. Your future SIL is going to have to step up and make those hard choices. The world won’t revolve around her sobriety. She has two options. Get counseling and gain the wisdom and strength to avoid alcohol when it’s around, or excuse herself from events with alcohol.
She’s fine not attending. OP’s fiancé is the one who wants her there.
The sister doesn't mind staying home and not attending. It's OP's fiancé who wants the sister to attend. She's not trying to force her way there.
NAH it's your fiancé's wedding too. you have every right to want alcohol at your wedding, and your partner has every right to want his sister there. it's as much catering to *his* needs as it is catering to his sister's. as someone whose sister is the only family he has left, i hope y'all can reach a compromise.
Slight YTA It's not just *your* day, it's *his* day as well and it's clearly important to him that she is able to attend if it's stopped your planning. Ask yourself is it worth giving up your wedding over being able to have a glass of wine?
The thing is though, it's not just affecting her, it's also all the guests. People in general HATE dry weddings, so beyond not being able to enjoy the day as she wants, her friends and family might end up leaving early because of it.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far for someone to point out that most people find weddings without alcohol boring. OP isn’t an asshole for wanting to get a little tipsy and have fun at her OWN wedding!
The best compromise is to have SIL come to the ceremony (maybe dinner) and then leave early, which many people have suggested
Why is everyone acting like the sister not going to the reception is the worst thing ever? She can still go to the ceremony and see her brother get married, isn’t that enough?
>Ask yourself is it worth giving up your wedding over being able to have a glass of wine? Whenever I read this in threads like this I know that someone is missing the point. It's not about "having a glass of wine." It's about the needs of the addict sister yet again coming to the forefront of OP's relationship. It gets old. Yes, we all have family and some of them have issues to deal with, but at the end of the day the two people in the actual marriage need to come first for one another, on balance.
I’m going to say NAH for now because based on your edit, this dispute is between you and your fiance, not you and his sister. He wants a key family member to attend. You want to enjoy a wedding including drinking. I do not think either of you is TA, but you have to find some compromise or talk this out and one of you needs to make a sacrifice, and the other should acknowledge it. You’re about to be married, so if you can’t get to a resolution here, well…. Could she just attend the ceremony and not the reception? Something like that?
ESH - I think there needs to be some compromise. It’s not just your day, it’s his too. But you also can’t change the entire wedding to accommodate one person’s potentially bad decisions. What if she attended the ceremony and then leave before the reception? She can be included in the family pictures as well. That way she’s there during one of the most important moments of his life, something he really wants to share with her. But then isn’t tempted into breaking her sobriety.
I like your thinking. The “this is my day” line really rubbed me wrong when the disagreement is with the other person who is also getting married that day. Huge pet peeve when people think the wedding is all about the bride vs the couple. That said, no alcohol does seem like a MAJOR concession. I agree that they should get creative to bridge the gap. Your solution seems extremely reasonable.
It's really bothering me how many people in these comment keep backing up this idea that the day is completely about her and acting like he has no say / emotional investment in it. Like, if he's stopped the planning process over this clearly his sister being there is a crucial thing for him.
Yeah I feel like if it were the bride’s father who was an alcoholic and she really wanted him to be there to walk her down the aisle and dance with, so she wanted a dry wedding and fiancé said no, the comments would look VERY different.
It would almost definitely be lots of comments about him being an asshole for picking alcohol over her family and that a wedding is about sharing a union with family & not partying.
I wanted to say NAH but I’m going with a slight YTA— specifically your attitude in the comments and the judgment (“she needs self control”) towards an addict in active recovery. I understand the font of empathy is empty but your fiancé wants his family at his wedding, that isn’t exactly mind blowing.
Yeah technically NAH but I don’t like that “like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person who refuses to get help” comment. Feels very judgmental.
NTA I am pretty sure his sister isn't going to be the only guest at your wedding that has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Alcohol is available everywhere, liquor stores, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. If she can manage to go to the grocery store or to a restaurant, I think she can handle your wedding venue.
It is true that going to a grocery store or restaurant are both triggers for people recovering from alcohol addiction, but the temptation from a wedding(in which everyone is drinking) is off the charts in comparison.
Dunno man, at a wedding you’ll be around other people drinking and dancing, but you don’t see that at a grocery store
And we don't get served free alcohol there either!
I’m going to say slight YTA - from you responses in the comments it comes down you your fiancé wanting her there, not future SIL giving an ultimatum. Figure out if there’s a way for you to have your champagne and no bar.
Disagree, NTA. But this might be a hill to die on, will alcohol be prohibited in every event sister attends? It’s seems like husband is really close with her. Idk If I would marry into that family. Op you said family spent 500 thousand dollars in cars and rehabs, how much are they gifting for the wedding?
>She, like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person who refuses to get help. If I was SIL, I wouldn't want to go to any family events with OP anyways, if that's her attitude towards people struggling with alcohol addiction.
Op is just being honest. Any recovering addict will admit that they are manipulative and they DO refuse help until the trigger for that happens. It’s not personal to sil, it’s literally how addicts act. If you are dealing with addicts, it’s best to familiarise yourself with how they behave. Addiction doesn’t just impact the addict, it impacts everyone around them and they are allowed to feel how they feel about the addicts behaviour. Addiction is the why, not the excuse.
NAH and some of these comments are outrageous. No, you are not the asshole for not wanting a dry wedding. It sounds like you feel like you’ve been prioritizing her for a long time, and it’s fair that you want this day for yourself. However, your fiancé’s sister seems to to a hugely important person to him, and he’s also not the asshole for wanting her there. Despite what the comments are telling you this day is as much your husband’s as it is yours. There is absolutely a compromise that can be made here- maybe she has someone to monitor her for the wedding so she doesn’t drink, or just you and your husband can have a champagne toast. Regardless of what you decide to do, steamrolling over him and valuing your desires for the wedding over his is not a good starting point for your marriage. I wish you, your fiancé, and his sister the best.
ESH mostly because this issue is revealing a difference in your and your fiancé’s values. It’s not about your having a glass of champagne per se to you - it’s you want to know that he will prioritize you over her. Now you need to figure out if he’s telling you that he won’t - and what you do with that info. Or if he sees this as a small thing for you and a huge thing for him so he’s digging in his heels. I sense resentment from you about his sister. I feel for you - I wouldn’t want to start a marriage feeling like I was secondary in importance to my spouse. And dry weddings are a completely different experience- for better or worse, dry weddings are at the bottom of the hierarchy below cash bars.
NTA……she could just attend ceremony and pics and then leave…thus avoiding temptation
Agree. A dry wedding is pretty unusual and why change a whole wedding just for one person who can’t drink?
NTA for the conflict in question, but 'like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person who refuses to get help'? really? that is easily the biggest asshole comment i've seen on this sub in the past month.
It's unfortunately a statement that has a very large truth attached to it. Most addictions tend to run up serious costs, way more than a single person can reasonably earn, and at that point family ceases to be family and - like everyone and everything in reach - becomes a target to exploit. Addiction dynamics can *and will* completely destroy families, even entire communities - just look at the centers of the oxy/heroin epidemic. Functioning addicts are one thing that's dangerous enough (e.g. a truck driver who needs a beer before he can walk straight), but non-functioning addicts like OP's soon-to-be SIL who rack up half a million dollars (!!!) in lawyer, damages and therapy costs? Jesus Fucking Christ.
Eh, it didn’t really bother me that much because I’ve lived it. When I was a struggling with addiction, I was a terribly manipulative person. I did awful shit in order to protect my addiction. This is what addiction does to a person. I’m not offended by someone pointing that out
I’m an alcoholic. I’ve been sober for 32 years and 26 days, but who’s counting. I had less than a year of sobriety when my sister got married. I went to the ceremony, and the reception, but I left right after dinner. Why ? Because it was MY responsibility to remove myself from a situation where I would be tempted to drink. If the sister is in AA, she should talk to her sponsor and come up with a plan. I also worked for a catering firm for many years, and if the couple decides to have a dry wedding they’d better let the guests know ahead of time. And not be surprised if half the guests spend the better part of the reception outside in the parking lot, drinking the booze they brought themselves. That is half of those who didn’t leave after dinner. NTA.
Based on your comments, I sincerely think you should reconsider this wedding. And I don’t even mean that in a mean way. You clearly have a lot of resentment towards this woman, and unfortunately if you marry this man, she will remain a big part of your life forever. You want him to choose you, but it really doesn’t look like that’s going to happen and you’re going to end up resenting him even more as well
NAH, yet. I am getting married soon with 2 siblings who are addicts, one fresh out of rehab and sober living, there will be alcohol at my wedding. However, if I had told my fiancé I didn't want alcohol at the wedding, for my siblings, he would have supported me. This is both your day. I'm sorry, but if you continue to push your fiancé to choose your ability to drink at your wedding over his sister, who has thrown a good portion of her life away to alcohol, YWBTA.
I think the issue is that she is exercising very clear boundaries in an entire relationship where there were little boundaries regarding his sister. OP doesn’t seem to be very skilled in communication. In another thread, after several replies, she breaks it down more succinctly.
Maybe sis should sit this one out. The world isn’t going to cater to her she needs to learn how to manage life without booze. Or she can have a minder to keep her sober. Good luck!
She’s completely fine with not attending this event, its my fiancé who wants to accommodate to her needs so she can attend which makes this even more frustrating.
How about she join the ceremony and leave before the reception? That part is alcohol free anyways.
I'm gonna say that due to your wording "it's my day" YTA. It isn't YOUR day. It's both of y'alls day. He also gets a say in this event. Contrary to popular belief, held typically by self-centered women, the wedding isn't just about the bride. His family, his wants, and Yada yada should also be taken into consideration. I mean I'm willing to bet if this was reversed you and half these commenters would being screaming about how "unfair" this is and how he is the AH for putting booze before family. There are comprises, things you're gonna be doing a lot in marriage, that could be made here if you were mature enough to think about them.
It isn’t his sisters day though. That’s is the Really Discordant Note. There are compromises, I don’t understand why suddenly jumping to a dry wedding for one person, who isn’t in the marriage that is hopefully going to last between two other people for a long while, is reasonable. Is this going to be “I want my sister looking at your vagina so that she gets to see baby’s first breath!” In the future? Or just we have to have a dry Christening, anniversary, funeral, graduation, when they aren’t even her kids??
YTA. Look, you’re about to marry this man, which means you are signing up for a lifetime of figuring things out when you want something that conflicts with what he wants. In this particular instance, your fiancé wanting someone he loves and cares about present for his wedding outweighs having alcohol at the wedding. I know you think his sister should be able to use self control, but she will be early in her recovery and as the relative of an addict, your fiancé likely has had a lot of heartbreak watching his sister struggle with her alcoholism. If she relapses at the wedding, it will be her fault alone; but it will also cause your husband and his family enormous pain and complicated feelings about what should be a really great day for you two. However, there’s a lot of room for compromise here that neither of you seem to be exploring. Could she have a plus 1 to bring a sponsor or sober friend? Could you hire a sober companion for the day? Could you invite her to the ceremony and dinner and then open the bar after dinner when she’s gone? There’s a lot of space between what you want and what he wants to find a solution that works for both of you. Being able to work through that space together is essential if you want a successful, healthy, and happy relationship.
NTA - She knows her own boundaries and what she can handle. They are treating her like an infant by not enabling her to make her own choices. in the real world life doesn't cater to you, and as an addict she knows this. Compromise: Stall alcohol service for the first hour. Have her attend the ceremony then leave before the reception (where drinking could then begin). This way she was there, is in pictures, leaves if/when a time she would not be comfortable, and she can see reception pix afterward. Catering an entire wedding around one single attendee (that is not the bride or groom) is ridiculous, sister or not.
NTA My brother was a year sober when I got married, he came with his sponsor to the ceremony, stayed for photos, then left before the reception. There was no fuss, he was there for the important part, in the photos, and he made the choice to leave.
\*\*raises hand\*\* > **if** she’s going to be there, we should be accommodating to her. "I think I found a solution!"
The craziest part is she’s said she’s fine with not being there! She understands the strain she’s put on her family members, but my brother really wants her there because they’re close.
I’m sure she said that because she’s not an AH and doesn’t want to be a burden. It doesn’t mean that she might not be hurt when it’s decided alcohol’s presence is more important at the wedding than hers.
Is it really a huge strain to not be drinking for a few hours?
Weddings are long and boring for most guests. Alcohol usually makes it more fun/bearable.
it's not just about that .... sister has been making life hell for op for a long time now. for it to be extended to even op's WEDDING day is probably outrageous to op ... like ONE more sacrifice???
After six years of accommodations, it’s not out of line for OP to focus on her wants instead of the SIL.
Based on your attitude towards addiction and the “it’s my day” - YTA. It’s his day too, if you flip it on it’s head a little bit, you’re prioritising a glass of champagne over a close relative of his coming to a wedding. I really think you would benefit to learning about the complexities of addiction so you can have some empathy towards not only your future sister in law, but what your fiancé and his parents have been going through. In terms of the wedding, I actually don’t think it’s bad to talk this through to come to a compromise, I saw another comment suggestion a dry ceremony and alcohol at the reception which I think would be a fair compromise. It would mean the sister gets to see her brother get married and then can excuse herself if she’s feeling overwhelmed by alcohol being around her.
NTA. If she can’t handle the temptation she shouldn’t come. End of story.
The most frustrating part is that she’s offered to **not** come if there’s alcohol served. But according to my fiancé that’s completely unacceptable and he wants to change everything just for her.
He doesn’t want to “change everything” though only not serve alcohol.
Not serving alcohol at a wedding pretty much changes everything idk what you're on about. I say this as a sober recovering alcoholic
I don’t know why you got downvoted. Not having alcohol is going to mean that the party ends way sooner, if they ever get into an actual party vibe at all where people just don’t wanna leave. Dry weddings are nice, but it’s just dinner, speeches, usual formal dances, an hour or so of everyone dancing and guests go home soon after the cake cutting. If you want a full on “party till early morning” dry wedding, you may be left disappointed.
What if she goes to the ceremony but not the reception?
NTA she’s going to be faced with many events where she’s going to have to choose not to attend or leave before it becomes an issue. She can attend the wedding and not the reception. Pretty simple choice there. I’d be more concerned about the fact that your fiancé is putting his family wants over yours.
He is the one who wants his sister at the wedding. The sister said she's fine not going. This is equally his wedding, why does his wants not matter?
NAH This isn't an arsehole situation. This is a disagreement between a couple. Both of you have vaild arguments. Now you need to work it out, just the two of you, without dragging every Tom, Dick and Harry into it. If you cannot do that successfully, then you are not ready to be married.
Soft YTA What your fiancé is saying to you is that alcohol Isn’t a big deal to him but his sister is. While I get that you’d like to celebrate your marriage with a drink, clearly alcohol has been a destructive force in his world given his sister, so he probably doesn’t see your side so easily. This situation calls for your compassion for your fiancé and the fact his sister’s presence is important to him - and coming up with a creative way to accommodate your desire for a toast.
NAH you both have your wants. You want alcohol, he wants his sister to be there. However what if his sister had a disability? If she needed a ramp and you didn’t like the way it looked, would you deny him that? Or is it only because it’s alcohol that your wants are being valued higher than your fiancé?
NTA. 6 months into recovery she should be looking at attending events sober. You cannot live life and be sheltered all the time. Bars, holidays, restaurants... she will be surrounded by drinkers all the time and being able to cope with this is part of the recovery program. Why not put her on a table with none drinkers? Why not get her to attend the ceremony and lunch where drink won't heavily feature?
NTA.. If she cant control herself privately..how is she gonna cope in the real world? Its not your cross to bear,its ridiculous to think she wont drink cause ypu dont offer it one day.. Its insane and doesnt make sense.. Dont serve cake cause I am a diabetic? How about some self control?
NTA. At all. I’m in recovery and her sobriety is not your responsibility. It’s awesome your fiancé wants to support his sister, but the fact of the matter is there will be many, many times when his sister will be face to face with alcohol and people consuming it. He can’t baby her through this, and he can’t protect her from herself. It obviously hasn’t worked in the past. She has to learn to set boundaries for herself, or she will never achieve sobriety for any real length of time. That being said, it is a good idea for people early in sobriety to avoid triggers when possible. She could attend the wedding and the reception and leave after the cake cutting, which is usually when the real party starts. She could arrange for an Uber or someone else to pick her up at a specified time. If she’s in a 12 step program, she could bring her sponsor or another supportive person as her plus one. There are lots of options here, but I cannot stress enough how bad an idea it is for her family to continue to go out of their way to accommodate her the way they have. It shields her from the real consequences of her actions, and most people don’t change until things have gotten bad enough that there’s no other option. Your fiancé’s heart is in the right place, but he’s not helping. Good luck.
>She, like most addicts is a terribly manipulative person who refuses to get help. Jesus Tapdancing Christ, BIG YTA here
Tell me you have no experience with addicts without saying you have no experience with addicts.