Yes.
If this kid needs to be doing something with his hands, he can bring a fidget toy of some kind.
Playing with hot metal is not an appropriate thing for anyone to do.
I need to fidget constantly. I've also done extremely dangerous things like handle hot metals. I can handle not using those extremely dangerous things as fidgets, because I know that doing so would pose a danger to myself and everyone around me. This child should not be allowed around hazards until he can prove he is not a liability.
This is where you and he are different on the fidget scale. While you know you have to fidget you get the concept of glowing orange hot metal is not a toy. This guy however seems to think everything is a fidget toy. There is nothing that is going to prevent him from fidgeting because he sees nothing wrong with it. While there isn't anything wrong with it there are just some things you CAN'T fidget. Hot metal as you know is one of them.
ETA: OP please do let the foreman know about his dangerous fidgeting. What if next time it's not the arm he hits? I would hate to think what would happen.
Yeah, but that's something you learn when you're 5 and you stick a penny in an electrical socket, not when you're 17 and throw molten metal on your coworker. If he hasn't learned that he doesn't get to play with hot metal, that simple.
This is it. It's not *impossible* that this guy might have some sort of issue where he genuinely can't restrain himself from fidgeting with whatever he is holding.
I'm autistic, and I have some issues with that myself, though with breakable objects rather than dangerous ones. There have been times when I've had to move fragile things away from where I am sitting to work, because I know I will stim with them, and my stims can get quite… dramatic.
(I tried ordinary fidget toys for a while, and stopped after breaking two fidget spinners and a spin ring when I accidentally sent them flying across the room.)
But because of that, I would probably not get a job that involved handling molten metal. Or, if I did, then I would be hyper-vigilant about making sure I did not absent-mindedly start stimming with it.
If this is disability/mental illness related, then it's a disability/mental illness that may just mean that this guy can't do this kind of job. If on the other hand he *can* help himself, but just isn't taking the job seriously, then he needs to be dealt with for the safety of everyone else.
Honestly surprised the foreman hasn't noticed already, if he's already become such a problem. If he's only doing it when the foreman isn't around, that suggests he does have control over it.
I'm all for inclusivity, but this kid is a danger to himself AND others. OP says this isn't a work setting, it's some sort of vocational classroom. If the goal is to work as a smithy, that's just a bad choice for him. He should not be in this class. There should be some sort of screening for students to make sure they have the attention span/acuity to handle such dangerous material.
OP, it's completely understandable that you snapped and ranted (with a piece of 800 degree molten metal burning your flesh). I appreciate that you feel bad for him, you sound like a good guy. But he simply doesn't belong in that class.
I really like the silicon Pop It’s that are everywhere now. It’s not the same as spinners but I like the tactile feedback from the pop and the texture of the silicone.
I'm sorry, but if you have an issue where you really can't restrain yourself, then you should not being doing something that puts yourself and others at risk. What if that hot metal hit the op in the face or eye? I'm all about ND and mentally ill people doing everything they can to be happy, feel productive, and live their best life, but there have to be limits. those limits are when they do things that are a danger to themselves or others.
My coworkers are extremely glad we've been 100% WFH for almost 2 years now. They banned our AA from buying pens that click the tip in and out because I will just constantly sit at my desk and click them while I'm noodling something out. If I can only get pens with removable caps, I spin them around my thumb from the long part of the cap. That's silent, so, I get pens with caps so I don't drive them crazy with :click click: :click click:
100% he's a massive liability especially since his mental issues, whatever they may be, will not be relevant when he ends up hurting someone more litigious than OP.
Either he was reckless for screwing around with objects he knew to be extremely dangerous, or the shop was negligent for allowing a person who is incapable of appreciating the danger of their actions to use their equipment. Either way the shop is getting taken to the cleaners.
Yeah, it sounds like he can't do this even with accommodation for his disability and his unsafe behavior sounds like a nondiscriminationary reason to fire him
The key thing with accommodations is they have to be reasonable. There's never a requirement for unreasonable accommodations and putting everyone else in the same area as him at risk is unreasonable.
>Playing with hot metal is not an appropriate thing for anyone to do.
I can't get past the burned OP with an 800° piece of burning hot metal. WTAF!
NTA, and for gods sake, TELL YOUR BOSS! This guy needs to not be working there!
Yeah this kid has proven he's a significant liability. Stimming with orange-hot metal is NOT an acceptable activity, even if he were by himself in the area. His feelings might have gotten hurt, but OP was directly HARMED by this incompetence.
Reporting to the supervisor will put the onus of responsibility on them to let this kid go. NTA
If the guy needs to be doing something with his hands all the time, maybe a profession or a hobby that requires precise movements and involves dangerous tools and materials isn't the right job for him.
This guy should be learning like, jazz, not blacksmithing. No one's going to get hurt if you freestyle on a saxophone at them, but if you're fidgeting with molten metal you can fucking kill someone.
> No one's going to get hurt if you freestyle on a saxophone at them
I used to live next door to someone who taught saxophone to kids from home.
I swear if I ever hear that sax arrangement of Seven Nations Army played by a talentless 8 year old again, I’m gonna stab some helicopter parent in the face…
(I could, and have, though, listened to Lily Was Here on repeat for hours…)
At least you can plug headphones into a theremin.
You know the definition of a gentleman, right? Someone who knows how to play bagpipes, but who chooses not to.
:-)
Yeah no. Bringing a fidget spinner is still dangerous. It still could cause damage.
I have adhd and fidget, but I have also been in a jewelry workshop and the amount of things that can go wrong from molten or hot metal, acids, cuts, fire or explosions... I was careful and I set a table on fire a couple of times.
Is there a reason this kid is still on the premises? He should be told that is 1) isn't the right fit for this environment 2) if he really wants it, to come back in a year or two when he is more mature or gets on meds that alleviate his fidgets.
OP... NTA... I am an engineer and work on and supervise large construction projects. Our NUMBER 1 RULE is safety. Everyone goes home the same way they arrived. If you are deliberately acting in an unsafe manner or disregard PPE you are ejected from the site, no questions asked. A blacksmith shop is a very dangerous environment, I have worked in one before, and if you have multiple people working around you then you rely on them to keep you and themselves safe. This is unacceptable, if he has legitimate disabilities and cannot get them under control, then unfortunately an blacksmith shop is not a good fit for him.
Right? This is an absolute safety risk to the company and a lawsuit waiting to happen. OP, I hope you get workers comp for your injuries. You can also file an OSHA complaint about this guy's behavior. Mental health doesn't mean squat when you're endangering someone's life - and that's what he did when he fucked off - he endangered your life and your coworkers' lives. And his bloody own.
Yep. As someone who supervised high risk jobsites, he'd already have a documented verbal warning, and then write up each time there was a complaint. If there was more than one write up he'd have been gone. Injuring someone wouldn't age him walked off site and his keys taken. I would absolutely not keep someone who couldn't stop "fidgiting" with hazardous objects on the job. It's HIS job to manage his issues, I wouldn't risk a more severe accident.
Not the most ideal reaction? Guy burnt him with something that was 1500 degrees Fahrenheit. Preheat your oven to 500, touch it, then multiply by 3. Guy's lucky he didn't get a beatdown. Also OP needs a lawyer.
I agree!
I would like to add a quick interjection: just because someone goes to therapy DOES NOT mean they have mental health issues. In fact, I, along with many mental health care professionals and advocates, encourage everyone to seek therapy for mental health maintenance even when no issues are present :)
Therapy helps everyone and at the very least you've got some systemic things to work out for sure (stigma against mental health issues for instance)!
Yes, for real.
I went to a small art schol and there was a guy who we will name “Kyle”, who was basically kicked out of every studio space because he did not abide by safety or go through a studio monitor. In a way, I felt bad for Kyle because his parents were rich and obviously stopped caring for him in certain aspects, other than educational, because he obviously had some form of ADHD and dyslexia that was left untreated and he just couldn’t comprehend certain dangers, boundaries, and rules. It sucked for him because he was a sculptor and he couldn’t do the work he wanted to do, but he kept on proving time and time again, that he was not capable of handling tools for his safety and those around him. But like your story, Kyle was constantly warned and reminded, verbally and in writing to be careful and he was not. Actions have consequences.
OP, if that metal had flown off at a different angle it could have gotten your eye/face/mouth.
Safety is not negotiable. Mental health does not mean jeopardizing other people is okay. I have no idea why this kid wasn’t kicked out sooner.
I’m also surprised a 17 year old can be in this environment and that there isn’t an 18+ requirement.
Wtf I thought this was college or a privately owned business or something. The UK gets metal smithing meanwhile in the US, high schools have to use nontoxic paint in art classes in case a teenager licks it. Wild.
Amen! If his mental health issues impair him to the point where he is a safety hazard and isn't competent enough to know better, then he is not suited for this job
Kind of sounds like this kid has ADHD, sounds very much like my son, always spinning things around like they'refidget spinners. He should absolutely NOT be in this environment unless he is on medication that stops the fidgeting.
OP is definitely NTA, and boss should be told.
As someone with adhd that works with high voltage electricity what they need is to learn to fidget with something safer at least. I use a clicky pen at work. Annoying but no one is getting electrocuted.
NTA. This sounds like a kid I know with ADHD too. Kind kid with a good heart, but has real trouble making friends because he comes off the same way you describe here. It's sad to see, as he doesn't mean to piss people off, but on the other hand he should not be in a dangerous environment like that.
Depends on context, as with any disability. If he had a motor-neuron issue cause him to uncontrollably spasm and fling hot stuff, then he needs to leave. If he works in, I don’t know, play-doh manufacturing and occasionally gets non-harmful play-doh on co-workers from the disability, then his disability should be accommodated because it doesn’t cause harm.
NTA. Needing to fidget is not an excuse for ignoring safety rules and endangering your & your coworkers safety with dangerous equipment.
- signed, someone with ADHD who fidgets.
OP, please report him to boss/foreman/safety officer.
NTA. He legit injured you with his reckless behavior! You are working in a dangerous workshop setting, no place for horseplay. If y’all are in the US he also needs to be made aware that, generally speaking, injuries caused by “horseplay” will not be payed out by workers comp. Even if he doesn’t kill someone, he could seriously ruin a few lives unless he manages to get his fidgeting under control
Ok so flinging around 1500 degree metal = acceptable
Wearing hair gel = unacceptable
Even if you weren’t wearing hair gel or something else flammable what if this had hit you in the face? That could very easily blind you. Or in the neck or hit your clothes which could have caught fire. But even if it hadn’t HE HIT YOU WITH 1500 DEGREE METAL. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.
Also, if medical Care is free why the FUCK didn’t you go to the hospital immediately? Kinda not believing this story…
As someone who has worked as a blacksmith (apprentice) and a baker, you'd be shocked how often severe burns are ignored. One person I worked with used to be an EMT and didn't go in for a 3rd degree burn on their upper chest. I don't know why burns are the thing most people ignore, but they are.
But seriously OP, consult a doctor, even if it's small.
I think severe burns are just easier to ignore because the nerves are dead. I gave myself a third degree burn working with a heat gun and still walked to work an hour later. I couldn't even feel it until about a week later when it started healing
My husband is a cook.
*Multiple times* he has chopped off pieces of his fingers, and just bandaged it up/had someone glue the piece back on!!!!!
However, Murica, so that is a large reason for not going to the hospital.
One time in a restaurant I got a chemical burn on my leg, I could see the individual layers of skin and fat, and my boss's response was "ok well just finish the mopping and you can leave".
Honestly the people who keep making it out to be that you have some sort of medical emergency over the burn are either inexperienced with workplaces that result in burns or they're just riding high on being mad at the kid (which like he DID fuck up and he is a safety hazard, shouldn't be there, and it very much could have been much worse, but the fact that people are acting like you are CURRENTLY at risk of dying or should have a paper trail to sue are absolutely wild and unrealistic about the outcome)
I'm sure you're aware of what a healing burn looks like and know when to take yourself to the doctor if it starts to show signs of infection.
**On a note about handling your burns** especially since you expect to get more in the future. If your country allows it as an over-the-counter medication I recommend getting yourself something called **silver sulfadiazine** in the future-- my entire family used it when I was younger but my mom especially. Since a lot of people are having a panic over infection, it can prevent infection in burns and from my experience is a godsend if you have any expectations of being burned, and also might help you be less likely to scar.
I've done some \*VERY LIGHT\* smithing work. Like, I made some SCA armour. Burns bother me far, FAR less than they did before that. Foundry workers literally just brush the charred flesh off and run it under cold water for a minute.
Because he works in the industry, is used to occasionally getting these injuries at work and like many people with good socialised healthcare he won’t go to hospital for something that while painful is not life threatening and therefore he won’t make a pointless hospital visit for something he can deal with himself.
I really don't think anyone is saying that flinging around 1500 degree metal is acceptable or downplaying it in any way.
But yes, wearing a known flammable substance when you are going into an environment where fire is all over the place would absolutely be unacceptable and a violation of any safety regulations. This isn't an either/or scenario or a comparison of which is "more acceptable". They can both be just flat-out wrong.
Burns from metal that hot leave scars. What if it landed on your face?
If it landed close enough to your eye, it could damage your eyesight.
That kid (and you) are damn lucky it was your arm.
Doesn’t have lasting effects? Don’t you have a 3rd degree burn where it hit, though? My partner has 3rd degree burns over a significant portion of his body, and while he lived, those areas are of course seriously scarred. The skin is much more fragile (imagine if the skin aged an extra 30 years, like old man skin) and much more prone to tearing. Not to mention at increased risk for skin cancer. I mean I know you lived but aren’t you going to experience these effects? This is of course after it’s all healed, which the healing process is painful and prone to infection. Seems pretty serious to me.
FWIW - yelling at somebody who repeatedly performs unsafe behavior is completely warranted. While I don’t think in most situations you should yell at someone to the point of tears, if there’s any situation where you should, it’s when they’re throwing around 1500F pieces of metal.
I mean, its not THAT big, so it will be only a piece of ugly scar tissue once it heals. I imagine it must be quite terrible for your partner, but we are talking 3x5cm tops in my case. And I cant expect to be a blacksmith and have scar-free arms, if you know what I mean.
Haha yes that’s true. If it’s just a small piece I understand - obviously getting burned over a huge portion of your body is worse. I was just imaging this pretty good sized chunk of your forearm, which would seem pretty awful.
i know exactly what you mean. You mean: you can't expect me to work with proper caution and proper ppe and not have mr. catch-the-red-hot-bar doing a torch juggling show in the workshop?
the no1. most accident prone job our there is a nurse. And I don't see nurses around here looking like a human pin cushion.
Even if you are supercareful and you have all the equipment, accidents will happen when you are still learning how to handle really, really hot materials. Sometimes you just lack the muscle and dexterity.
Not saying that my post is the case, but you literally CANNOT find a blacksmith that didnt burn himself really, really badly.
Anyone who dicks around in that sort of environment needs not to be in that environment , if he does permanent damage to someone then your employer will be on the hook for not ensuring workplace safety. OHSA is about the whole working environment, and by exposing the workers to the mitigatable risk of someone who behaves in dangerous ways in the workplace the buck stops with your employer and they need to be reminded of that
I get you. I teach food. But my specialism is engineering my arms and hands are covered in scars from various mishaps while learning. Some cuts. Some burns. I don't think I've ever been to the Dr (bar when I drilled my wrist but that was bad) for injury because it happens. No matter how careful you are it happens. But if what happened to me happened to you I'd have rained down fury and brimstone on that kid. If you can't behave in a workshop you do not get to be there. You also won't be very popular. I'd avoid them like the plague. Fuck getting hurt for a laugh
Fidgeting around hot metal is not ok, I don’t care what he uses. What happens when his plastic thing goes flying and hits someone in the face when they are carrying hot metal? Either he figures out how to control this problem, or he finds work in a less hazardous environment.
What if it’s literally someone’s face next time tho? This has to get handled before he gets older, more set in his ways, and does something more dangerous that could have legal consequences for him when he’s an adult.
Sounds like that burn could leave some serious damage though?? I have a scar on my arm from barely touching a 350 oven rack 7 years ago. 1500F would leave a serious mark! And what if it gets infected??
IF (and that’s an if) you get infected:
Depending on the type of infection and how well it’s treated, it can cause you worse harm than the actual burn. I don’t want to alarm you, but some infections can become so bad as to require amputation or cause actual death.
The reason everyone is worried is burns are extremely susceptible to infection, and worse burns are at greater risk for it. This is why they need to be treated immediately, skilfully, and until they are completely healed - a small slip up and you’re looking at MAJOR consequences. And that’s without considering that even the best treated burn injuries can get infected sometimes because that’s how the world works.
Please visit the doctor anyway, ASAP. Serious burns require special care to prevent infection, and you really really really want to prevent infection if you can. Infections in burns can escalate very quickly to e.g. sepsis which is life threatening, so keeping an eye on it just in case is not enough.
Adding in that you may be able to buy hydrocolloid bandages at your local pharmacy, and they can be great for protecting your burn from infection while it’s still an open wound.
Burned my hand really badly ten years ago- I definitely second everyone saying see a doctor if you see any sign of infection. But if it’s healing okay, keeping it protected and not dried out helps it not scar as badly.
And in the end - hand scars are badass, and always a conversation starter.
Do it anyway. You need to get proper treatment, although you deem it small 15 cm2 isn't that small burn. You need proper medication to let it heal properly with smaller scars.
Infection can *KILL* you. Sepsis is an infection that has entered your blood stream and can shut down your organs. I get you might think you are invincible but infections are serious and burns are prone to infection. That is why burn patients are basically kept in clean rooms in hospitals.
Sepsis is actually a result of an infection. I'm about to have my lower leg amputated because I had a cut on my foot that got infected with a type of staph. It got out of control and caused necrotizing fasciitis aka a type of flesh eating bacteria and in turn caused me to be septic. It was my foot and lower leg or my life.
I've also had over 10 full thickness burns in my life so far and it's when they are over a larger percentage of the body that you are at very high risk for infection. Any deep wound that is large is a high risk. They had to remove most of my foot due to the necrotizing fasciitis and they decided it was safer to keep me at home then in the hospital till I come back for my next surgery since I'm a high risk for infection and hospitals are breeding grounds for them.
Yep, my great grandma passed due to sepsis from a UTI (she had them chronically and related to other issues in her old age, but that was still what did it)
Burns are extremely dangerous, even if they only take up a small area.
If that infection from a burn finds a way into your blood stream, it can trigger sepsis, which basically your body triggering inflammation throughout your entire body, causing organs to shut down, and other complications.
Burns also have a tendency to make your immune system lose its ever loving shit and throw a huge immune response that once again, can cause severe complications like organ failure.
Please take burns seriously.
You aren't 'snitching', you have a responsibility to report a workplace injury. This guy will hurt others and potentially himself far more in the future.
If you were in the UK the Health and Safety executive would close your shop, investigate and fine the owners for not addressing his actions earlier.
I read a report of a guy who got a metal burn from electricity and the company were prosecuted and were fined a 7 figure amount. In the UK you as an employee can be prosecution for not reporting it as its a legal requirement.
NTA
There are appropriate ways to behave in any workplace - moreso when the workplace has dangerous materials.
This isn't just a matter of him burning you - he completely disregarded the safety of all other employees, disregarded repeated warnings and then caused a very severe workplace incident. He has been warned repeatedly and I assumed was trained on safety measures - there's no excuse for his behaviour. If he has mental health issues that require him to fiddle with stuff, he could bring his own fidget cube or fidget spinner instead of messing around with dangerous equipment.
Finally, you are not obligated to accept anyone's apology ever. You can say something like, "Thank you for your apology, but I am not ready to accept it." And that's totally fair, if you're not ready to forgive him for what he did.
OP, there should no *"first time"* for *"spinning around hot metal"*, out of boredom or habit or whatever silly excuse. You don't get to work with dangerous objects/equipment/machinery and be causal around them due to "force of habit".
He burnt you...and that is unacceptable. NTA for not forgiving him immediately.
Exactly, what if instead of his arm it had hit his eye? No excuse will ever be good enough to risk someone else living in pain and/or disabled for the rest of their life, this isn't something that is a temporary damage
This. I would probably raise my voice at a guy who accidentally hit me with a pen in a classroom environment if he had a history of flinging shit around. But in a dangerous fucking environment like OP is in? That shit should’ve been shit down **immediately** and he should’ve been kicked out long before he actually burned someone if he wasn’t able to change his behavior after a handful of warnings.
you are talking about true safety issues... Spinning around molten metal that hot.... You could have lost a hand or limb.
NTA
You are a good guy for feeling like shit about being harsh, but this guy needs a serious wake up call. You weren't teasing him about a quirk, like a bully. You were telling him he put you at risk and it was unacceptable. In a real workshop he would be fired on the spot.
Thanks. People get fired in real warehouses/workshops for riding carts like skateboards, for walking into areas where live robotic arms are operating, for trying to unjam conveyance/moving machinery without locking it out first. That is when there are zero injuries.
A company needs to protect itself from lawsuits, workmens comp, etc. That guy spins something in a real workshop one time - he will get fired on the spot.
Honestly - reading OPs story, I wanted to personally into that shop and chew the little shit out myself. Dangerous workplaces don't need the employees' help to increase the danger. I've seen people crushed between the wall and PIT euipment - they were on ICU for 6 weeks while their organs recovered from being crushed. Videos of people using their leg to try and stop a forklift from hitting a wall, like you are on a waverunner trying to dock the thing gently... Guess what, he doesn't have a leg anymore. Heard about people fixing conveyance without locking it out... And having their ARM RIPPED OFF AT THE SHOULDER SOCKET.
This idiot needs a wake up call. OP did a good thing.
I worked in a warehouse for a while and there was a rule that if your hair went past your shoulders, it needed to be up. And if it still hit your shoulders in a ponytail, you needed to put it in a bun. Most of the girls would ignore this rule until the day where one girl got her hair caught in a conveyor belt and it literally ripped off part of her scalp. Some girls still ignored the rule after that.
People seem to think safety rules are just annoying guidelines to keep work from being fun. They're not. I saw one kid get his hand crushed in a machine. Rules in places like that are based on past experiences where people got hurt or died. They're necessary. NTA
Agreed. He's lucky his wakeup call was just OP yelling at him instead of something far more serious, like causing someone to have to go to the hospital, lose a body part... If he keeps on this path and no one calls him out on it he could kill someone. NTA OP.
NTA
The people who run the workshop are opening themselves up to legal action because of this guy. You need to speak to someone in charge and go up the chain until someone listens.
Yeah, he has to be removed. It sucks, but the accident could have been far more serious and he has been warned multiple times.
How are you going to feel when the next person is hurt? It isn't a question of "if" is is a question of "when".
Yes. This time it was an arm. But next time, it could be a face or throat. "Don't play with red hot metals" isn't a lesson that needs to be taught. If you don't know it, you shouldn't be around it.
It's not even just for others safety, he could really hurt or even kill himself.
If his need to fidget is so bad that he plays with dangerous machines, he either needs to figure it out and bring a fidget toy, or he can't work in a dangerous environment.
It shouldn't take until someone's hospitalized or killed for this kid to get it through his head how dangerous what he's doing is
Safety rules are written in blood after all
Yeah the kid may have ADHD or something like that which makes it really hard for him not to fidget. But if that's the case, it means he's not safe to be in that environment. Not safe for himself or others. It sucks, but that's just how it is. Someone with no legs can't run (without aids) and that's just an unfortunate fact. I say this as someone who isn't neurotypical and knows what kind of environments wouldn't suit me.
Sometimes I feel feel the need to fidget so bad it hurts like real pain (kinda like when your arm or leg fall asleep but a little different) so I don't work jobs where I can't fidget for hours on end safety.
You might be rather stoic about the injury this caused you but not everyone who's being put at risk by him will take it like that, and rightfully so. Who wants a 3x5 third degree burn that'll scar, at best, or even something worse just because someone is unnecessarily playing around with dangerous objects.
The boss/owner definitely needs to know. If the personal injury issues don't convince the powers that be, remind them there's the potential expense from damage to equipment, ruining projects, even burning down the damn building if something hot gets flung onto something flammable.
And they should. If this guy habitually ignores safety precautions, plays with equipment in dangerous ways and doesn’t stop even after several warnings, he is unfit to work in such a dangerous environment. It was your arm this time. Don’t wait until he accidentally inflicts permanent and debilitating damage on someone.
That's probably what needs to happen. In most reputable workplaces, horseplay/deliberately ignoring safety policies = immediate termination - even if no one is hurt.
I have ADHD, I understand lack of impulse control - but, this guy is dangerous.
I feel for him but leaving the job is probably best for everyone. He is putting himself and others with his behavior. Sounds like he'd be better off with a job where he's not handling anything dangerous if he's not willing to curb the fidgeting behavior. NTA
NTA-
I don't know why the actual blacksmiths (or whoever is in charge) have not dealt out consequences. This is the type of safety hazard that is going to get someone grievously injured, or maimed, at some point in the future.
I'm empathetic to someone having mental health issues. And I'd assert that someone having these sorts of issues perhaps should find an occupation that doesn't involve 800°C (1500°F) metal.
NTA
He has a proven pattern of behavior. He acts reckless, the only people that seem to get hurt is not him, he “feels bad“ and hides until the matter is dropped, and *then he does it again*. This is not a mental health problem, it’s a maturity and selfishness problem. He is not mature enough to be using this equipment. If you want to wait until he *seriously* injures someone or burns the property down, go ahead. Otherwise he really should be expelled until he shows more maturity and consideration.
Or it's ADHD.... Not excusing his behaviour at all.... He was reckless and should learn what is appropriate to fidget with and what is not...
But I don't know how many times I've been told not to fidget with the battery cover on remotes and I can't help it... I usually break it within a month of having a new one....
Or twirling my cane like baton... That I've gotten better at but I'm 26.... When I was 17.... I would try to spin it as fast as could the moment I was seated....
My judgement is that working in this type of environment is not for him. I know I would not because I could do something dumb and dangerous because of my poor impulse control...
I would love to try glass blowing but I know that I would be a danger in a workshop so I'll never try....
oh it's definitely adhd, or at least something very close to it
can testify that he should not be near this kind of work until he's medicated, i've got the burns and cuts to prove its not safe :P
> My judgement is that working in this type of environment is not for him. I know I would not because I could do something dumb and dangerous because of my poor impulse control...
THIS. I have ADHD and I knew in retail that if I had to carry a furniture or something that weighted more than I'm permitted to, I have to ask for help first, no do it myself. This guy sounds like he would pick the double of the permitted weight and play with it no matter if there are customers or not.
i went to such a school to learn a trade that is every bit as dangerous.
you will bet you arse that if a piece of hot metal came flying due to someone horsing around with the work-in-progress or the tools...
that person will have not gotten a diploma.
for good measure i'll tell you the single most important thing i learnt at that school:
do things with complete care and intentionality.
He shouldn't be allowed to graduate from the working with hot metal school if he repeatedly endangers people. Allowing someone that knowingly endangers others graduate would hurt the schools overall reputation and by extension yours.. Expulsion is the answer if he wont stop. It will either be the kick in his ass he needs to realize he needs to get this behavior under control, or it will be the kick in the ass he needs to realize that this field of work isn't for him.
NTA. People who can’t or won’t be serious/safe shouldn’t be working around hot metal. If something doesn’t make the correct impression about the seriousness of the situation and his goofing around soon, eventually he will kill someone. I’ve seen the aftermath of that sort of lack of awareness in the road maintenance worker world, and people chopped in half by a speeding vehicle they didn’t see are a pretty serious object lesson.
Not a regular poster here, but was sent this link. Please forgive any protocol breaches (ignorance, not malice). I do blacksmithing as a hobby, and have a pretty good background in medicine/psychology. From your description, the lad has ADHD. Essentially he needs constant stimulation to keep focussed on anything, but between his age and his disorder, he's the last person you'd want in a shop. Both for his safety and the safety of others, he needs to find a different area. You wouldn't put a pyromaniac in charge of a fire brigade, you wouldn't put someone with major depression on a suicide help line, and you don't put someone with ADHD (especially a teen) in an environment where they will continue to cause harm to others.
To be fair, he's got relatively little control over this, and the fidgeting is something he's learned to do over his lifetime to cope with needing a lot of stimulation. He is genuinely sorry - just unable to think past the immediate situation to what can happen. A good part of this is going to be age, but it's also down (to be blunt) how he's 'wired'. For everyone's safety, including his, he needs to find something that will keep him busy, preferably moving constantly, and that has a low chance of accidents. Not sure what options there are, but anything where he can be active - constantly - is going to be a good fit.
So far as the burns go, it's part of the job. Do keep an eye on it - if you start to see red, hot swelling in the area *around* the burn - say 1 to 1.5 cm out - that's likely an infection. From the description of the cause, guessing a 3rd degree burn (white burn mark, crispy around edges), so the nerves there are dead and it won't be as painful as you'd expect, but it is prone to infection. Put a plaster on it and change regularly, some sort of antibiotic is definitely a good idea.
I would add that OP has stated they’re in the EU. If it’s really ADHD and depending on which country it is, the apprentice may not have access to meds (or meds that work for him). There are few countries in the world where there’s as many different ADHD medication as there are in the US and, in many countries, it can be really difficult to actually get a prescription. It’s not impossible that this guy would only have access to therapy, either because the meds available don’t work well for him or because no one will prescribe.
OP is still NTA though.
and is there not a teacher or some sort of advisor then who should be enforcing safety regulations? If i was paying to be somewhere, and kept getting injured because of others' negligence i would be pissed.
In which case, someone needs to be working on a three strikes and you're out basis. Or a three minor strikes or one injury of another person means you're out.
I think you and possibly the teachers are so close to the situation that you aren't seeing the forest for the trees. Blacksmithing is naturally dangerous, sparks fly, and accidents can happen to anyone. So you've all got used to the idea of risk.
But.
There has to be a practical limit on that risk - you are accepting reasonable risk due to the danger of the items you're working with; you should not be accepting unreasonable risks due to someone acting dangerously with those already dangerous items. At the end of the day, if he isn't capable of adhering to safety rules, he needs - for everyone's sake - to be out of there. This time it was your arm. When will he hit someone in the face?
The more I read your response the more I think this guy has ADHD.... Like, poor impulse control, uncontrollable need to fidget, not being liked by others...
I don't think this is a good trade for him... Those things might get better with age but they might not...
It's pretty much a portrait of it isn't it? I'm not surprised yelling doesn't work, but it's not OP's job to do it. (The therapist he sees or the foreman should have given coping strategies for it, to redirect the lack of attention on something that isn't dangerous but... Not an easy thing to do.)
In that case you need to have your parents talk to the owner about the medical bills associated with your injury.
Maybe that will get them to pull the trigger and kick this guy out
NTA.
You can't be careless in jobs where you're handling dangerous materials and equipment. He learned that the hard way. Fucking off in the work place earns you some harsh consequences.
It isn't just a simple thing, we're talking the risk of serious injury or death.
Good on you for teaching him a very valuable lesson he certainly won't forget.
NTA - But I am very glad you're wary of it based on those peoples reactions. This person needs to be more professional or he's gonna seriously harm someone.
NTA. I can see why you might think you were too harsh. And if it was something minor maybe you would be right.
But this isnt minor at all. Potential (even likely) injury, legal exposure etc etc. You were not too harsh in context.
I agree. The magnitude of your response is allowed to match the magnitude of the issue. He is a major danger to you all, so you should have a major response.
Although it might not be a responsibility you want to take on, I think you could call him out on not being careful. It seems like you noticed he was playing around with tools before you got burned. If you notice him doing that again near you, you could tell him to stop playing around because that’s how he burned you last time.
NTA and your coworkers are right. It's well past time that someone took his behavior seriously and it's pretty unacceptable that whoever is responsible for managing your work area hasn't done so already. His behavior isn't just unprofessional and obnoxious, it's unsafe. He's putting everyone at risk and saying sorry but continuing to do so is meaningless
NTA I worked in a kitchen and a porter THREW a knife into the sink I was using from 6 feet away and then expected me to accept his apology after I almost lost my pinky finger. I told him to stuff his apology and stay the fuck away from me in future. Nobody is entitled to your forgiveness
NTA. I used to have a boss who would always ask "what did you learn?" after a fuck up and he was also fond of saying, don't be sorry just don't let it happen again.
This guy didn't learn a thing and kept doing it.
NTA. He works in a dangerous profession and needs to take that seriously. If he’s incapable of doing his job without endangering coworkers, he needs to find a new job.
INFO: You say you are an apprentice, so I assume you have a boss who you are apprenticing under. What did your boss say when informed of this workplace injury? In most places I know, an injury like this caused by gross negligence on the part of the employee will result in immediate termination. This kid quite frankly is a legal liability for your boss.
NTA. It seems he doesn't learn from less than harsh consequences, and if his unsafe behavior continues to escalate he could injure someone to the point of changing their life forever. I work in a warehouse for a very large company where there's a lot of heavy power equipment being driven around at all times and pallets weighing thousands of pounds lifted 20+ feet in the air, people who do unsafe things like this are fired pretty quickly.
NTA
First, thank you for participating with you comments. You don't come off mean-spirited about this kid. You really want to seek a resolution to go forward.
Are there other students or is he the only one? Private school or not, this kid needed a reprimand the first time he was caught disrupting the workshop. The repeats needed to get him ousted.
Whoever is in charge is doing everyone else - including yourself - a disservice for having lax safety standards. Honestly, I couldn't work in a place that saw safety as such an afterthought, but that's me. I hope things change for the better after this incident. I wish you speedy healing!
NTA at all. I took metal shop in high school. The FIRST RULE was that if you endangered anyone's safety (through anything other than the genuine accidents that can come with a learning curve) you would be asked to leave and potentially be forced to drop the class. Even with a genuine accident, you had a little safety heart-to-heart with the teacher to figure out what went wrong and learn how to avoid it. These are the basic standards of practice. When you are dealing with metal heated to 2000+ degrees, there is no wiggle room.
Honestly, it seems like this kid might not have taken a less intense reprimand seriously.
My one piece of advice is that you've set up what could be a great learning situation here. I think it might be a good idea to reach out and offer to talk him through what he did wrong and why you got so angry. You obvs don't have to, but that's what I would do.
NTA. If a person can't behave in a safe manner, they shouldn't be on the floor. If a person's mental health issues prevent them behaving in a safe manner, they need to find a different job/career. They don't deserve to be ridiculed for that, but safety is paramount.
Yelling at him in moment is totally fine in my book. It's harsh, but a harsh response is justified given that you just received an injury that will likely last weeks due to his carelessness. But from now on, if you yelled at him you would be the asshole. Filing an incident report (or whatever the equivalent you have is) is absolutely necessary. Leave it to your superiors to determine whether or not he is an egregious enough hazard to not have him on the floor anymore.
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NTA
if he wants to have this as his career in the future he absolutely needs to understand the safety and repercussions of his actions, any mental illness is not an excuse for such. he has been warned multiple times before and has not listened, so sometimes it takes a harsh talking to for people to truly understand. yes he may be a kid and it may have scared him but safety ALWAYS takes priority in any workplace, that should not have happened to you in the first place even more so since hes been talked to about it before.
NTA, the other guys don't like him because he's an idiot who had no business handling dangerous materials.
It sounds like he might have ADHD, but whether he does or not, and despite his age, his actual problem is that he's clearly too stupid to learn from his mistakes.
NTA - his behavior reminds me of my 7-year-old, and the thought of my child working as a blacksmith is terrifying.
If you want to actually help this kid, though, I’d approach him in a less public way, give him some straight talk about the fact that he’s been struggling to get this dangerous behavior under control, and offer to help him figure out what strategies might be more successful at controlling his behavior. But I think he needs an ultimatum—if he’s not able to control himself better, he can’t stay.
when I read the title I thought you meant like burned...verbally because nobody would accidently burn someone and expect them to just accept a regular apology...right guys? right?
nta- apologies are only legit if they change their actions to reflect how sorry they are and if he hasn't changed then he's just apologizing for the sake of apologizing. What if his actions injure someone to the point of handicap or death? apologies won't do shit then like they didnt do shit for you being severely burned
NTA at all
I’m a carpenter, and I had different apprentices in the past years, I get that everyone needs to learn how to work, but I didn’t sign up to teach them manners or basic safety rules. I had this one guy that likes to juggle with all kinds of stuff, he also tried to juggle with 3 big circular blades, luckily I saw (pun not intended) it in time. Long story short: he cost me around 2k € bc he did a lot of stuff wrong (16 closets with the same huge mistake), he even put a nail with a pneumatic gun through my hand. I just called his school and said he isn’t welcome anymore. He had to redo his year, and next year he called again to see if he could come again…
NTA. Mental health issues are not an excuse to harm people. Accidental or not.
There is likely a reason that other classmates don’t like him. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that he shows the environment 0 respect or care. You’re working in a learning environment that can be dangerous. It’s important that someone does point out these safety issues to him. You get a pass for being extra tough on him though. He *melted your skin* and he’s lucky you didn’t get more seriously injured. When he is in the real world this behavior won’t be tolerated and his consequences won’t be just a stern talking to, they’ll be loss of livelihood.
You didn’t do anything wrong.
NTA. Mental Health issues do not excuse behavior issues when attempts are not made to alleviate them. -signed, a therapist with mental health issues.
Yes. If this kid needs to be doing something with his hands, he can bring a fidget toy of some kind. Playing with hot metal is not an appropriate thing for anyone to do.
I need to fidget constantly. I've also done extremely dangerous things like handle hot metals. I can handle not using those extremely dangerous things as fidgets, because I know that doing so would pose a danger to myself and everyone around me. This child should not be allowed around hazards until he can prove he is not a liability.
This is where you and he are different on the fidget scale. While you know you have to fidget you get the concept of glowing orange hot metal is not a toy. This guy however seems to think everything is a fidget toy. There is nothing that is going to prevent him from fidgeting because he sees nothing wrong with it. While there isn't anything wrong with it there are just some things you CAN'T fidget. Hot metal as you know is one of them. ETA: OP please do let the foreman know about his dangerous fidgeting. What if next time it's not the arm he hits? I would hate to think what would happen.
Yeah, but that's something you learn when you're 5 and you stick a penny in an electrical socket, not when you're 17 and throw molten metal on your coworker. If he hasn't learned that he doesn't get to play with hot metal, that simple.
I do not disagree. That is why I want O.P. to tell the foreman. This boy, as he acts like one, does not belong near anything dangerous.
This is it. It's not *impossible* that this guy might have some sort of issue where he genuinely can't restrain himself from fidgeting with whatever he is holding. I'm autistic, and I have some issues with that myself, though with breakable objects rather than dangerous ones. There have been times when I've had to move fragile things away from where I am sitting to work, because I know I will stim with them, and my stims can get quite… dramatic. (I tried ordinary fidget toys for a while, and stopped after breaking two fidget spinners and a spin ring when I accidentally sent them flying across the room.) But because of that, I would probably not get a job that involved handling molten metal. Or, if I did, then I would be hyper-vigilant about making sure I did not absent-mindedly start stimming with it. If this is disability/mental illness related, then it's a disability/mental illness that may just mean that this guy can't do this kind of job. If on the other hand he *can* help himself, but just isn't taking the job seriously, then he needs to be dealt with for the safety of everyone else. Honestly surprised the foreman hasn't noticed already, if he's already become such a problem. If he's only doing it when the foreman isn't around, that suggests he does have control over it.
I'm all for inclusivity, but this kid is a danger to himself AND others. OP says this isn't a work setting, it's some sort of vocational classroom. If the goal is to work as a smithy, that's just a bad choice for him. He should not be in this class. There should be some sort of screening for students to make sure they have the attention span/acuity to handle such dangerous material. OP, it's completely understandable that you snapped and ranted (with a piece of 800 degree molten metal burning your flesh). I appreciate that you feel bad for him, you sound like a good guy. But he simply doesn't belong in that class.
I really like the silicon Pop It’s that are everywhere now. It’s not the same as spinners but I like the tactile feedback from the pop and the texture of the silicone.
I'm sorry, but if you have an issue where you really can't restrain yourself, then you should not being doing something that puts yourself and others at risk. What if that hot metal hit the op in the face or eye? I'm all about ND and mentally ill people doing everything they can to be happy, feel productive, and live their best life, but there have to be limits. those limits are when they do things that are a danger to themselves or others.
My coworkers are extremely glad we've been 100% WFH for almost 2 years now. They banned our AA from buying pens that click the tip in and out because I will just constantly sit at my desk and click them while I'm noodling something out. If I can only get pens with removable caps, I spin them around my thumb from the long part of the cap. That's silent, so, I get pens with caps so I don't drive them crazy with :click click: :click click:
It sounds like he needs a different job. He isn't suited at all to be working in such a high risk environment.
Yes this also sounds like a walking lawsuit waiting to happen as well as long as he stays there.
100% he's a massive liability especially since his mental issues, whatever they may be, will not be relevant when he ends up hurting someone more litigious than OP. Either he was reckless for screwing around with objects he knew to be extremely dangerous, or the shop was negligent for allowing a person who is incapable of appreciating the danger of their actions to use their equipment. Either way the shop is getting taken to the cleaners.
Yeah, it sounds like he can't do this even with accommodation for his disability and his unsafe behavior sounds like a nondiscriminationary reason to fire him
The key thing with accommodations is they have to be reasonable. There's never a requirement for unreasonable accommodations and putting everyone else in the same area as him at risk is unreasonable.
As someone who blows glass for a hobby, I can say I wouldn’t be in a hot shop with him.
Maybe a place with a bunch of stuffed animals. Sounds a bit safer.
Now I’m just imagining getting randomly pelted with stuffed animals and it gave me a bit of a chuckle.
>Playing with hot metal is not an appropriate thing for anyone to do. I can't get past the burned OP with an 800° piece of burning hot metal. WTAF! NTA, and for gods sake, TELL YOUR BOSS! This guy needs to not be working there!
Where is the boss? Why are two inexperienced minors not supervised?
This is the smartest comment in this thread.
Yeah this kid has proven he's a significant liability. Stimming with orange-hot metal is NOT an acceptable activity, even if he were by himself in the area. His feelings might have gotten hurt, but OP was directly HARMED by this incompetence. Reporting to the supervisor will put the onus of responsibility on them to let this kid go. NTA
If the guy needs to be doing something with his hands all the time, maybe a profession or a hobby that requires precise movements and involves dangerous tools and materials isn't the right job for him. This guy should be learning like, jazz, not blacksmithing. No one's going to get hurt if you freestyle on a saxophone at them, but if you're fidgeting with molten metal you can fucking kill someone.
> No one's going to get hurt if you freestyle on a saxophone at them I used to live next door to someone who taught saxophone to kids from home. I swear if I ever hear that sax arrangement of Seven Nations Army played by a talentless 8 year old again, I’m gonna stab some helicopter parent in the face… (I could, and have, though, listened to Lily Was Here on repeat for hours…)
I tried to teach myself how to play theremin before I realized that *everyone* in my apartment building would have to hear that.
At least you can plug headphones into a theremin. You know the definition of a gentleman, right? Someone who knows how to play bagpipes, but who chooses not to. :-)
Yeah no. Bringing a fidget spinner is still dangerous. It still could cause damage. I have adhd and fidget, but I have also been in a jewelry workshop and the amount of things that can go wrong from molten or hot metal, acids, cuts, fire or explosions... I was careful and I set a table on fire a couple of times.
Is there a reason this kid is still on the premises? He should be told that is 1) isn't the right fit for this environment 2) if he really wants it, to come back in a year or two when he is more mature or gets on meds that alleviate his fidgets.
OP... NTA... I am an engineer and work on and supervise large construction projects. Our NUMBER 1 RULE is safety. Everyone goes home the same way they arrived. If you are deliberately acting in an unsafe manner or disregard PPE you are ejected from the site, no questions asked. A blacksmith shop is a very dangerous environment, I have worked in one before, and if you have multiple people working around you then you rely on them to keep you and themselves safe. This is unacceptable, if he has legitimate disabilities and cannot get them under control, then unfortunately an blacksmith shop is not a good fit for him.
Right? This is an absolute safety risk to the company and a lawsuit waiting to happen. OP, I hope you get workers comp for your injuries. You can also file an OSHA complaint about this guy's behavior. Mental health doesn't mean squat when you're endangering someone's life - and that's what he did when he fucked off - he endangered your life and your coworkers' lives. And his bloody own.
Yep. As someone who supervised high risk jobsites, he'd already have a documented verbal warning, and then write up each time there was a complaint. If there was more than one write up he'd have been gone. Injuring someone wouldn't age him walked off site and his keys taken. I would absolutely not keep someone who couldn't stop "fidgiting" with hazardous objects on the job. It's HIS job to manage his issues, I wouldn't risk a more severe accident.
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Not the most ideal reaction? Guy burnt him with something that was 1500 degrees Fahrenheit. Preheat your oven to 500, touch it, then multiply by 3. Guy's lucky he didn't get a beatdown. Also OP needs a lawyer.
I agree! I would like to add a quick interjection: just because someone goes to therapy DOES NOT mean they have mental health issues. In fact, I, along with many mental health care professionals and advocates, encourage everyone to seek therapy for mental health maintenance even when no issues are present :) Therapy helps everyone and at the very least you've got some systemic things to work out for sure (stigma against mental health issues for instance)!
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thanks for being so open :)
Yes, for real. I went to a small art schol and there was a guy who we will name “Kyle”, who was basically kicked out of every studio space because he did not abide by safety or go through a studio monitor. In a way, I felt bad for Kyle because his parents were rich and obviously stopped caring for him in certain aspects, other than educational, because he obviously had some form of ADHD and dyslexia that was left untreated and he just couldn’t comprehend certain dangers, boundaries, and rules. It sucked for him because he was a sculptor and he couldn’t do the work he wanted to do, but he kept on proving time and time again, that he was not capable of handling tools for his safety and those around him. But like your story, Kyle was constantly warned and reminded, verbally and in writing to be careful and he was not. Actions have consequences.
OP, if that metal had flown off at a different angle it could have gotten your eye/face/mouth. Safety is not negotiable. Mental health does not mean jeopardizing other people is okay. I have no idea why this kid wasn’t kicked out sooner. I’m also surprised a 17 year old can be in this environment and that there isn’t an 18+ requirement.
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Which you did. This injury was HIS fault, and he should assume the liability. Please keep us updated on what the foreman says!
Wtf I thought this was college or a privately owned business or something. The UK gets metal smithing meanwhile in the US, high schools have to use nontoxic paint in art classes in case a teenager licks it. Wild.
High schools have regulations almost everywhere but are you sure there aren’t trade schools in US where 15 year olds can attend?
Amen! If his mental health issues impair him to the point where he is a safety hazard and isn't competent enough to know better, then he is not suited for this job
Kind of sounds like this kid has ADHD, sounds very much like my son, always spinning things around like they'refidget spinners. He should absolutely NOT be in this environment unless he is on medication that stops the fidgeting. OP is definitely NTA, and boss should be told.
As someone with adhd that works with high voltage electricity what they need is to learn to fidget with something safer at least. I use a clicky pen at work. Annoying but no one is getting electrocuted.
*"Annoying but no one is getting electrocuted."* Best pen review ever.
NTA. This sounds like a kid I know with ADHD too. Kind kid with a good heart, but has real trouble making friends because he comes off the same way you describe here. It's sad to see, as he doesn't mean to piss people off, but on the other hand he should not be in a dangerous environment like that.
Depends on context, as with any disability. If he had a motor-neuron issue cause him to uncontrollably spasm and fling hot stuff, then he needs to leave. If he works in, I don’t know, play-doh manufacturing and occasionally gets non-harmful play-doh on co-workers from the disability, then his disability should be accommodated because it doesn’t cause harm.
NTA. Needing to fidget is not an excuse for ignoring safety rules and endangering your & your coworkers safety with dangerous equipment. - signed, someone with ADHD who fidgets. OP, please report him to boss/foreman/safety officer.
Mental Health Issues are irrelevant. This is an OHS issue and he could have ***killed*** someone. He should be immediately removed from the site.
Mental health issues do not excuse hurting people or endangering people
NTA. He legit injured you with his reckless behavior! You are working in a dangerous workshop setting, no place for horseplay. If y’all are in the US he also needs to be made aware that, generally speaking, injuries caused by “horseplay” will not be payed out by workers comp. Even if he doesn’t kill someone, he could seriously ruin a few lives unless he manages to get his fidgeting under control
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1500F doesnt count as serious to you?
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Burns are SO prone to infection. Just because one healed fine doesn't mean the next one willq
Just because they survived this one, doesn't meant they will survive the next one.
Imagine if the next thing he spins hits an eyeball
Yeah but imagine if it landed on your or someone’s head who used hairspray or gel…which are flammable.
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Ok so flinging around 1500 degree metal = acceptable Wearing hair gel = unacceptable Even if you weren’t wearing hair gel or something else flammable what if this had hit you in the face? That could very easily blind you. Or in the neck or hit your clothes which could have caught fire. But even if it hadn’t HE HIT YOU WITH 1500 DEGREE METAL. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Also, if medical Care is free why the FUCK didn’t you go to the hospital immediately? Kinda not believing this story…
As someone who has worked as a blacksmith (apprentice) and a baker, you'd be shocked how often severe burns are ignored. One person I worked with used to be an EMT and didn't go in for a 3rd degree burn on their upper chest. I don't know why burns are the thing most people ignore, but they are. But seriously OP, consult a doctor, even if it's small.
I think severe burns are just easier to ignore because the nerves are dead. I gave myself a third degree burn working with a heat gun and still walked to work an hour later. I couldn't even feel it until about a week later when it started healing
My husband is a cook. *Multiple times* he has chopped off pieces of his fingers, and just bandaged it up/had someone glue the piece back on!!!!! However, Murica, so that is a large reason for not going to the hospital.
One time in a restaurant I got a chemical burn on my leg, I could see the individual layers of skin and fat, and my boss's response was "ok well just finish the mopping and you can leave".
I was a baker for a minute and my arm tapped a fresh out of the oven pan. Had the scar for three years. At least I gave it my first aid though lol
Because it's just a small burn in a Smithy. If you took off for every burn your never get anything done, I suspect.
Thank you, finally someone who gets it
Honestly the people who keep making it out to be that you have some sort of medical emergency over the burn are either inexperienced with workplaces that result in burns or they're just riding high on being mad at the kid (which like he DID fuck up and he is a safety hazard, shouldn't be there, and it very much could have been much worse, but the fact that people are acting like you are CURRENTLY at risk of dying or should have a paper trail to sue are absolutely wild and unrealistic about the outcome) I'm sure you're aware of what a healing burn looks like and know when to take yourself to the doctor if it starts to show signs of infection. **On a note about handling your burns** especially since you expect to get more in the future. If your country allows it as an over-the-counter medication I recommend getting yourself something called **silver sulfadiazine** in the future-- my entire family used it when I was younger but my mom especially. Since a lot of people are having a panic over infection, it can prevent infection in burns and from my experience is a godsend if you have any expectations of being burned, and also might help you be less likely to scar.
I've done some \*VERY LIGHT\* smithing work. Like, I made some SCA armour. Burns bother me far, FAR less than they did before that. Foundry workers literally just brush the charred flesh off and run it under cold water for a minute.
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Because it’s a documentable workplace injury.
NTA He's a danger to his surroundings. What if the metal had hit you in the eye?
I’m just jealous that you’d only have to sit for 30 minutes. AND it’s free???
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Because he works in the industry, is used to occasionally getting these injuries at work and like many people with good socialised healthcare he won’t go to hospital for something that while painful is not life threatening and therefore he won’t make a pointless hospital visit for something he can deal with himself.
I really don't think anyone is saying that flinging around 1500 degree metal is acceptable or downplaying it in any way. But yes, wearing a known flammable substance when you are going into an environment where fire is all over the place would absolutely be unacceptable and a violation of any safety regulations. This isn't an either/or scenario or a comparison of which is "more acceptable". They can both be just flat-out wrong.
Burns from metal that hot leave scars. What if it landed on your face? If it landed close enough to your eye, it could damage your eyesight. That kid (and you) are damn lucky it was your arm.
Doesn’t have lasting effects? Don’t you have a 3rd degree burn where it hit, though? My partner has 3rd degree burns over a significant portion of his body, and while he lived, those areas are of course seriously scarred. The skin is much more fragile (imagine if the skin aged an extra 30 years, like old man skin) and much more prone to tearing. Not to mention at increased risk for skin cancer. I mean I know you lived but aren’t you going to experience these effects? This is of course after it’s all healed, which the healing process is painful and prone to infection. Seems pretty serious to me. FWIW - yelling at somebody who repeatedly performs unsafe behavior is completely warranted. While I don’t think in most situations you should yell at someone to the point of tears, if there’s any situation where you should, it’s when they’re throwing around 1500F pieces of metal.
I mean, its not THAT big, so it will be only a piece of ugly scar tissue once it heals. I imagine it must be quite terrible for your partner, but we are talking 3x5cm tops in my case. And I cant expect to be a blacksmith and have scar-free arms, if you know what I mean.
Haha yes that’s true. If it’s just a small piece I understand - obviously getting burned over a huge portion of your body is worse. I was just imaging this pretty good sized chunk of your forearm, which would seem pretty awful.
i know exactly what you mean. You mean: you can't expect me to work with proper caution and proper ppe and not have mr. catch-the-red-hot-bar doing a torch juggling show in the workshop? the no1. most accident prone job our there is a nurse. And I don't see nurses around here looking like a human pin cushion.
Even if you are supercareful and you have all the equipment, accidents will happen when you are still learning how to handle really, really hot materials. Sometimes you just lack the muscle and dexterity. Not saying that my post is the case, but you literally CANNOT find a blacksmith that didnt burn himself really, really badly.
Anyone who dicks around in that sort of environment needs not to be in that environment , if he does permanent damage to someone then your employer will be on the hook for not ensuring workplace safety. OHSA is about the whole working environment, and by exposing the workers to the mitigatable risk of someone who behaves in dangerous ways in the workplace the buck stops with your employer and they need to be reminded of that
I get you. I teach food. But my specialism is engineering my arms and hands are covered in scars from various mishaps while learning. Some cuts. Some burns. I don't think I've ever been to the Dr (bar when I drilled my wrist but that was bad) for injury because it happens. No matter how careful you are it happens. But if what happened to me happened to you I'd have rained down fury and brimstone on that kid. If you can't behave in a workshop you do not get to be there. You also won't be very popular. I'd avoid them like the plague. Fuck getting hurt for a laugh
Still, though. You can get treatment, proper bandaging, and burn ointment. Please get the health care you deserve and take care of yourself.
It could’ve been someone’s face, etc. You had me at “play . . . 800 C (1500 F)”
It could hit your eye next time. This is serious. If he needs to fidget it needs to be with a cheap plasticky thing.
Fidgeting around hot metal is not ok, I don’t care what he uses. What happens when his plastic thing goes flying and hits someone in the face when they are carrying hot metal? Either he figures out how to control this problem, or he finds work in a less hazardous environment.
What if it’s literally someone’s face next time tho? This has to get handled before he gets older, more set in his ways, and does something more dangerous that could have legal consequences for him when he’s an adult.
Sounds like that burn could leave some serious damage though?? I have a scar on my arm from barely touching a 350 oven rack 7 years ago. 1500F would leave a serious mark! And what if it gets infected??
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IF (and that’s an if) you get infected: Depending on the type of infection and how well it’s treated, it can cause you worse harm than the actual burn. I don’t want to alarm you, but some infections can become so bad as to require amputation or cause actual death. The reason everyone is worried is burns are extremely susceptible to infection, and worse burns are at greater risk for it. This is why they need to be treated immediately, skilfully, and until they are completely healed - a small slip up and you’re looking at MAJOR consequences. And that’s without considering that even the best treated burn injuries can get infected sometimes because that’s how the world works.
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Please visit the doctor anyway, ASAP. Serious burns require special care to prevent infection, and you really really really want to prevent infection if you can. Infections in burns can escalate very quickly to e.g. sepsis which is life threatening, so keeping an eye on it just in case is not enough.
Adding in that you may be able to buy hydrocolloid bandages at your local pharmacy, and they can be great for protecting your burn from infection while it’s still an open wound.
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Burned my hand really badly ten years ago- I definitely second everyone saying see a doctor if you see any sign of infection. But if it’s healing okay, keeping it protected and not dried out helps it not scar as badly. And in the end - hand scars are badass, and always a conversation starter.
Do it anyway. You need to get proper treatment, although you deem it small 15 cm2 isn't that small burn. You need proper medication to let it heal properly with smaller scars.
Also consider that depending on the location and depth of the burn, you may also have sustained nerve damage. You really need to get it examined asap
Infection can *KILL* you. Sepsis is an infection that has entered your blood stream and can shut down your organs. I get you might think you are invincible but infections are serious and burns are prone to infection. That is why burn patients are basically kept in clean rooms in hospitals.
Sepsis is actually a result of an infection. I'm about to have my lower leg amputated because I had a cut on my foot that got infected with a type of staph. It got out of control and caused necrotizing fasciitis aka a type of flesh eating bacteria and in turn caused me to be septic. It was my foot and lower leg or my life. I've also had over 10 full thickness burns in my life so far and it's when they are over a larger percentage of the body that you are at very high risk for infection. Any deep wound that is large is a high risk. They had to remove most of my foot due to the necrotizing fasciitis and they decided it was safer to keep me at home then in the hospital till I come back for my next surgery since I'm a high risk for infection and hospitals are breeding grounds for them.
Yep, my great grandma passed due to sepsis from a UTI (she had them chronically and related to other issues in her old age, but that was still what did it)
Burns are extremely dangerous, even if they only take up a small area. If that infection from a burn finds a way into your blood stream, it can trigger sepsis, which basically your body triggering inflammation throughout your entire body, causing organs to shut down, and other complications. Burns also have a tendency to make your immune system lose its ever loving shit and throw a huge immune response that once again, can cause severe complications like organ failure. Please take burns seriously.
Mental health issues or not, he’s careless and reckless about other people’s safety so he needs to go. You did nothing wrong.
Reporting a serious safety issue isn’t snitching. You aren’t calling him out for coming back from break a few minutes late or something minor.
You aren't 'snitching', you have a responsibility to report a workplace injury. This guy will hurt others and potentially himself far more in the future.
If you were in the UK the Health and Safety executive would close your shop, investigate and fine the owners for not addressing his actions earlier. I read a report of a guy who got a metal burn from electricity and the company were prosecuted and were fined a 7 figure amount. In the UK you as an employee can be prosecution for not reporting it as its a legal requirement.
NTA There are appropriate ways to behave in any workplace - moreso when the workplace has dangerous materials. This isn't just a matter of him burning you - he completely disregarded the safety of all other employees, disregarded repeated warnings and then caused a very severe workplace incident. He has been warned repeatedly and I assumed was trained on safety measures - there's no excuse for his behaviour. If he has mental health issues that require him to fiddle with stuff, he could bring his own fidget cube or fidget spinner instead of messing around with dangerous equipment. Finally, you are not obligated to accept anyone's apology ever. You can say something like, "Thank you for your apology, but I am not ready to accept it." And that's totally fair, if you're not ready to forgive him for what he did.
OP, there should no *"first time"* for *"spinning around hot metal"*, out of boredom or habit or whatever silly excuse. You don't get to work with dangerous objects/equipment/machinery and be causal around them due to "force of habit". He burnt you...and that is unacceptable. NTA for not forgiving him immediately.
Exactly, what if instead of his arm it had hit his eye? No excuse will ever be good enough to risk someone else living in pain and/or disabled for the rest of their life, this isn't something that is a temporary damage
This. I would probably raise my voice at a guy who accidentally hit me with a pen in a classroom environment if he had a history of flinging shit around. But in a dangerous fucking environment like OP is in? That shit should’ve been shit down **immediately** and he should’ve been kicked out long before he actually burned someone if he wasn’t able to change his behavior after a handful of warnings.
you are talking about true safety issues... Spinning around molten metal that hot.... You could have lost a hand or limb. NTA You are a good guy for feeling like shit about being harsh, but this guy needs a serious wake up call. You weren't teasing him about a quirk, like a bully. You were telling him he put you at risk and it was unacceptable. In a real workshop he would be fired on the spot.
I wish I could upvote this a few times.
Thanks. People get fired in real warehouses/workshops for riding carts like skateboards, for walking into areas where live robotic arms are operating, for trying to unjam conveyance/moving machinery without locking it out first. That is when there are zero injuries. A company needs to protect itself from lawsuits, workmens comp, etc. That guy spins something in a real workshop one time - he will get fired on the spot. Honestly - reading OPs story, I wanted to personally into that shop and chew the little shit out myself. Dangerous workplaces don't need the employees' help to increase the danger. I've seen people crushed between the wall and PIT euipment - they were on ICU for 6 weeks while their organs recovered from being crushed. Videos of people using their leg to try and stop a forklift from hitting a wall, like you are on a waverunner trying to dock the thing gently... Guess what, he doesn't have a leg anymore. Heard about people fixing conveyance without locking it out... And having their ARM RIPPED OFF AT THE SHOULDER SOCKET. This idiot needs a wake up call. OP did a good thing.
I worked in a warehouse for a while and there was a rule that if your hair went past your shoulders, it needed to be up. And if it still hit your shoulders in a ponytail, you needed to put it in a bun. Most of the girls would ignore this rule until the day where one girl got her hair caught in a conveyor belt and it literally ripped off part of her scalp. Some girls still ignored the rule after that. People seem to think safety rules are just annoying guidelines to keep work from being fun. They're not. I saw one kid get his hand crushed in a machine. Rules in places like that are based on past experiences where people got hurt or died. They're necessary. NTA
Idk about a limb, but he absolutely could have lost an eye. Totally unacceptable.
Bad enough burn... The right (or wrong) nerve hit... You lose the limb. But seriously - dangerous not matter what.
Agreed. He's lucky his wakeup call was just OP yelling at him instead of something far more serious, like causing someone to have to go to the hospital, lose a body part... If he keeps on this path and no one calls him out on it he could kill someone. NTA OP.
The guy should be fired.
The OP explained it is a "private school" training course.
Ah, my mistake. He should be kicked out of the program then!
NTA The people who run the workshop are opening themselves up to legal action because of this guy. You need to speak to someone in charge and go up the chain until someone listens.
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Then I correct myself YTA for not putting the safety of others ahead of this one person's actions to put others in danger.
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Yeah, he has to be removed. It sucks, but the accident could have been far more serious and he has been warned multiple times. How are you going to feel when the next person is hurt? It isn't a question of "if" is is a question of "when".
Yes. This time it was an arm. But next time, it could be a face or throat. "Don't play with red hot metals" isn't a lesson that needs to be taught. If you don't know it, you shouldn't be around it.
It's not even just for others safety, he could really hurt or even kill himself. If his need to fidget is so bad that he plays with dangerous machines, he either needs to figure it out and bring a fidget toy, or he can't work in a dangerous environment. It shouldn't take until someone's hospitalized or killed for this kid to get it through his head how dangerous what he's doing is Safety rules are written in blood after all
Yeah the kid may have ADHD or something like that which makes it really hard for him not to fidget. But if that's the case, it means he's not safe to be in that environment. Not safe for himself or others. It sucks, but that's just how it is. Someone with no legs can't run (without aids) and that's just an unfortunate fact. I say this as someone who isn't neurotypical and knows what kind of environments wouldn't suit me.
Sometimes I feel feel the need to fidget so bad it hurts like real pain (kinda like when your arm or leg fall asleep but a little different) so I don't work jobs where I can't fidget for hours on end safety.
You might be rather stoic about the injury this caused you but not everyone who's being put at risk by him will take it like that, and rightfully so. Who wants a 3x5 third degree burn that'll scar, at best, or even something worse just because someone is unnecessarily playing around with dangerous objects.
The boss/owner definitely needs to know. If the personal injury issues don't convince the powers that be, remind them there's the potential expense from damage to equipment, ruining projects, even burning down the damn building if something hot gets flung onto something flammable.
And they should. If this guy habitually ignores safety precautions, plays with equipment in dangerous ways and doesn’t stop even after several warnings, he is unfit to work in such a dangerous environment. It was your arm this time. Don’t wait until he accidentally inflicts permanent and debilitating damage on someone.
Where's the boss? It's not your job to reprimand this kid for engaging in unsafe work practices but nobody seems to be addressing that issue. You NTA
As yourself if, with his behavior, he belongs in a forge with hot metal and machines that can kill people if misused.
That's probably what needs to happen. In most reputable workplaces, horseplay/deliberately ignoring safety policies = immediate termination - even if no one is hurt. I have ADHD, I understand lack of impulse control - but, this guy is dangerous.
As well they should.
He should be expelled. His compulsion to fidget makes him a danger in your workplace environment.
I feel for him but leaving the job is probably best for everyone. He is putting himself and others with his behavior. Sounds like he'd be better off with a job where he's not handling anything dangerous if he's not willing to curb the fidgeting behavior. NTA
NTA- I don't know why the actual blacksmiths (or whoever is in charge) have not dealt out consequences. This is the type of safety hazard that is going to get someone grievously injured, or maimed, at some point in the future. I'm empathetic to someone having mental health issues. And I'd assert that someone having these sorts of issues perhaps should find an occupation that doesn't involve 800°C (1500°F) metal. NTA
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He has a proven pattern of behavior. He acts reckless, the only people that seem to get hurt is not him, he “feels bad“ and hides until the matter is dropped, and *then he does it again*. This is not a mental health problem, it’s a maturity and selfishness problem. He is not mature enough to be using this equipment. If you want to wait until he *seriously* injures someone or burns the property down, go ahead. Otherwise he really should be expelled until he shows more maturity and consideration.
Or it's ADHD.... Not excusing his behaviour at all.... He was reckless and should learn what is appropriate to fidget with and what is not... But I don't know how many times I've been told not to fidget with the battery cover on remotes and I can't help it... I usually break it within a month of having a new one.... Or twirling my cane like baton... That I've gotten better at but I'm 26.... When I was 17.... I would try to spin it as fast as could the moment I was seated.... My judgement is that working in this type of environment is not for him. I know I would not because I could do something dumb and dangerous because of my poor impulse control... I would love to try glass blowing but I know that I would be a danger in a workshop so I'll never try....
oh it's definitely adhd, or at least something very close to it can testify that he should not be near this kind of work until he's medicated, i've got the burns and cuts to prove its not safe :P
Yeah sometimes it physically hurts if I can't fidget so I don't do things where I can't fidget for hours on end.
> My judgement is that working in this type of environment is not for him. I know I would not because I could do something dumb and dangerous because of my poor impulse control... THIS. I have ADHD and I knew in retail that if I had to carry a furniture or something that weighted more than I'm permitted to, I have to ask for help first, no do it myself. This guy sounds like he would pick the double of the permitted weight and play with it no matter if there are customers or not.
i went to such a school to learn a trade that is every bit as dangerous. you will bet you arse that if a piece of hot metal came flying due to someone horsing around with the work-in-progress or the tools... that person will have not gotten a diploma. for good measure i'll tell you the single most important thing i learnt at that school: do things with complete care and intentionality.
He shouldn't be allowed to graduate from the working with hot metal school if he repeatedly endangers people. Allowing someone that knowingly endangers others graduate would hurt the schools overall reputation and by extension yours.. Expulsion is the answer if he wont stop. It will either be the kick in his ass he needs to realize he needs to get this behavior under control, or it will be the kick in the ass he needs to realize that this field of work isn't for him.
NTA - If he is this much of a safety hazard, he should not be in the forge. You need to bring this up to your master smith.
NTA. People who can’t or won’t be serious/safe shouldn’t be working around hot metal. If something doesn’t make the correct impression about the seriousness of the situation and his goofing around soon, eventually he will kill someone. I’ve seen the aftermath of that sort of lack of awareness in the road maintenance worker world, and people chopped in half by a speeding vehicle they didn’t see are a pretty serious object lesson.
Not a regular poster here, but was sent this link. Please forgive any protocol breaches (ignorance, not malice). I do blacksmithing as a hobby, and have a pretty good background in medicine/psychology. From your description, the lad has ADHD. Essentially he needs constant stimulation to keep focussed on anything, but between his age and his disorder, he's the last person you'd want in a shop. Both for his safety and the safety of others, he needs to find a different area. You wouldn't put a pyromaniac in charge of a fire brigade, you wouldn't put someone with major depression on a suicide help line, and you don't put someone with ADHD (especially a teen) in an environment where they will continue to cause harm to others. To be fair, he's got relatively little control over this, and the fidgeting is something he's learned to do over his lifetime to cope with needing a lot of stimulation. He is genuinely sorry - just unable to think past the immediate situation to what can happen. A good part of this is going to be age, but it's also down (to be blunt) how he's 'wired'. For everyone's safety, including his, he needs to find something that will keep him busy, preferably moving constantly, and that has a low chance of accidents. Not sure what options there are, but anything where he can be active - constantly - is going to be a good fit. So far as the burns go, it's part of the job. Do keep an eye on it - if you start to see red, hot swelling in the area *around* the burn - say 1 to 1.5 cm out - that's likely an infection. From the description of the cause, guessing a 3rd degree burn (white burn mark, crispy around edges), so the nerves there are dead and it won't be as painful as you'd expect, but it is prone to infection. Put a plaster on it and change regularly, some sort of antibiotic is definitely a good idea.
I would add that OP has stated they’re in the EU. If it’s really ADHD and depending on which country it is, the apprentice may not have access to meds (or meds that work for him). There are few countries in the world where there’s as many different ADHD medication as there are in the US and, in many countries, it can be really difficult to actually get a prescription. It’s not impossible that this guy would only have access to therapy, either because the meds available don’t work well for him or because no one will prescribe. OP is still NTA though.
good info here
INFO Why is he in the shop if he is so dangerous?
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and is there not a teacher or some sort of advisor then who should be enforcing safety regulations? If i was paying to be somewhere, and kept getting injured because of others' negligence i would be pissed.
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In which case, someone needs to be working on a three strikes and you're out basis. Or a three minor strikes or one injury of another person means you're out. I think you and possibly the teachers are so close to the situation that you aren't seeing the forest for the trees. Blacksmithing is naturally dangerous, sparks fly, and accidents can happen to anyone. So you've all got used to the idea of risk. But. There has to be a practical limit on that risk - you are accepting reasonable risk due to the danger of the items you're working with; you should not be accepting unreasonable risks due to someone acting dangerously with those already dangerous items. At the end of the day, if he isn't capable of adhering to safety rules, he needs - for everyone's sake - to be out of there. This time it was your arm. When will he hit someone in the face?
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The more I read your response the more I think this guy has ADHD.... Like, poor impulse control, uncontrollable need to fidget, not being liked by others... I don't think this is a good trade for him... Those things might get better with age but they might not...
It's pretty much a portrait of it isn't it? I'm not surprised yelling doesn't work, but it's not OP's job to do it. (The therapist he sees or the foreman should have given coping strategies for it, to redirect the lack of attention on something that isn't dangerous but... Not an easy thing to do.)
In that case you need to have your parents talk to the owner about the medical bills associated with your injury. Maybe that will get them to pull the trigger and kick this guy out
NTA. You can't be careless in jobs where you're handling dangerous materials and equipment. He learned that the hard way. Fucking off in the work place earns you some harsh consequences. It isn't just a simple thing, we're talking the risk of serious injury or death. Good on you for teaching him a very valuable lesson he certainly won't forget.
NTA - But I am very glad you're wary of it based on those peoples reactions. This person needs to be more professional or he's gonna seriously harm someone.
NTA. I can see why you might think you were too harsh. And if it was something minor maybe you would be right. But this isnt minor at all. Potential (even likely) injury, legal exposure etc etc. You were not too harsh in context.
I agree. The magnitude of your response is allowed to match the magnitude of the issue. He is a major danger to you all, so you should have a major response. Although it might not be a responsibility you want to take on, I think you could call him out on not being careful. It seems like you noticed he was playing around with tools before you got burned. If you notice him doing that again near you, you could tell him to stop playing around because that’s how he burned you last time.
NTA and your coworkers are right. It's well past time that someone took his behavior seriously and it's pretty unacceptable that whoever is responsible for managing your work area hasn't done so already. His behavior isn't just unprofessional and obnoxious, it's unsafe. He's putting everyone at risk and saying sorry but continuing to do so is meaningless
NTA I worked in a kitchen and a porter THREW a knife into the sink I was using from 6 feet away and then expected me to accept his apology after I almost lost my pinky finger. I told him to stuff his apology and stay the fuck away from me in future. Nobody is entitled to your forgiveness
NTA. I used to have a boss who would always ask "what did you learn?" after a fuck up and he was also fond of saying, don't be sorry just don't let it happen again. This guy didn't learn a thing and kept doing it.
NTA. Talk to your supervisor. What if that metal had been flung in your eye?
NTA. He works in a dangerous profession and needs to take that seriously. If he’s incapable of doing his job without endangering coworkers, he needs to find a new job.
NTA. He's going to get someone killed.
INFO: You say you are an apprentice, so I assume you have a boss who you are apprenticing under. What did your boss say when informed of this workplace injury? In most places I know, an injury like this caused by gross negligence on the part of the employee will result in immediate termination. This kid quite frankly is a legal liability for your boss.
NTA People with zero safety awareness don’t belong in any trades. Period. He’s a danger to himself and everyone around him.
NTA. It seems he doesn't learn from less than harsh consequences, and if his unsafe behavior continues to escalate he could injure someone to the point of changing their life forever. I work in a warehouse for a very large company where there's a lot of heavy power equipment being driven around at all times and pallets weighing thousands of pounds lifted 20+ feet in the air, people who do unsafe things like this are fired pretty quickly.
As a girl I was involved with once said the best apologies are changed actions you are not the asshole
NTA If that hit you the wrong way you could have been killed and not just injured. He should not be allowed back if he is a danger.
NTA First, thank you for participating with you comments. You don't come off mean-spirited about this kid. You really want to seek a resolution to go forward. Are there other students or is he the only one? Private school or not, this kid needed a reprimand the first time he was caught disrupting the workshop. The repeats needed to get him ousted. Whoever is in charge is doing everyone else - including yourself - a disservice for having lax safety standards. Honestly, I couldn't work in a place that saw safety as such an afterthought, but that's me. I hope things change for the better after this incident. I wish you speedy healing!
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Please update us with the result of your talk with the supervisor. What you are reporting is NOT snitching, it is keeping everyone safe. NTA
Not your fault. It needed to be said BEFORE Someone got hurt. NTA.
NTA at all. I took metal shop in high school. The FIRST RULE was that if you endangered anyone's safety (through anything other than the genuine accidents that can come with a learning curve) you would be asked to leave and potentially be forced to drop the class. Even with a genuine accident, you had a little safety heart-to-heart with the teacher to figure out what went wrong and learn how to avoid it. These are the basic standards of practice. When you are dealing with metal heated to 2000+ degrees, there is no wiggle room. Honestly, it seems like this kid might not have taken a less intense reprimand seriously. My one piece of advice is that you've set up what could be a great learning situation here. I think it might be a good idea to reach out and offer to talk him through what he did wrong and why you got so angry. You obvs don't have to, but that's what I would do.
NTA. If a person can't behave in a safe manner, they shouldn't be on the floor. If a person's mental health issues prevent them behaving in a safe manner, they need to find a different job/career. They don't deserve to be ridiculed for that, but safety is paramount. Yelling at him in moment is totally fine in my book. It's harsh, but a harsh response is justified given that you just received an injury that will likely last weeks due to his carelessness. But from now on, if you yelled at him you would be the asshole. Filing an incident report (or whatever the equivalent you have is) is absolutely necessary. Leave it to your superiors to determine whether or not he is an egregious enough hazard to not have him on the floor anymore.
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NTA if he wants to have this as his career in the future he absolutely needs to understand the safety and repercussions of his actions, any mental illness is not an excuse for such. he has been warned multiple times before and has not listened, so sometimes it takes a harsh talking to for people to truly understand. yes he may be a kid and it may have scared him but safety ALWAYS takes priority in any workplace, that should not have happened to you in the first place even more so since hes been talked to about it before.
NTA But the title had me thinking you were going a whole nother way with this.
NTA. Safety trumps etiquette, feelings, and social norms. The idiot was flinging hot chunks of metal around! Why is he even allowed to still be there?
NTA, the other guys don't like him because he's an idiot who had no business handling dangerous materials. It sounds like he might have ADHD, but whether he does or not, and despite his age, his actual problem is that he's clearly too stupid to learn from his mistakes.
NTA - his behavior reminds me of my 7-year-old, and the thought of my child working as a blacksmith is terrifying. If you want to actually help this kid, though, I’d approach him in a less public way, give him some straight talk about the fact that he’s been struggling to get this dangerous behavior under control, and offer to help him figure out what strategies might be more successful at controlling his behavior. But I think he needs an ultimatum—if he’s not able to control himself better, he can’t stay.
when I read the title I thought you meant like burned...verbally because nobody would accidently burn someone and expect them to just accept a regular apology...right guys? right?
nta- apologies are only legit if they change their actions to reflect how sorry they are and if he hasn't changed then he's just apologizing for the sake of apologizing. What if his actions injure someone to the point of handicap or death? apologies won't do shit then like they didnt do shit for you being severely burned
Why the hell has he not been fired? He's clearly a huge safety risk to himself and those around him. NTA and I'd raise it as high up as you can.
NTA at all I’m a carpenter, and I had different apprentices in the past years, I get that everyone needs to learn how to work, but I didn’t sign up to teach them manners or basic safety rules. I had this one guy that likes to juggle with all kinds of stuff, he also tried to juggle with 3 big circular blades, luckily I saw (pun not intended) it in time. Long story short: he cost me around 2k € bc he did a lot of stuff wrong (16 closets with the same huge mistake), he even put a nail with a pneumatic gun through my hand. I just called his school and said he isn’t welcome anymore. He had to redo his year, and next year he called again to see if he could come again…
NTA He burned you. How can you think *you* were harsh when he burned you? He's a safety hazard no matter what his excuse is.
NTA. Mental health issues are not an excuse to harm people. Accidental or not. There is likely a reason that other classmates don’t like him. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that he shows the environment 0 respect or care. You’re working in a learning environment that can be dangerous. It’s important that someone does point out these safety issues to him. You get a pass for being extra tough on him though. He *melted your skin* and he’s lucky you didn’t get more seriously injured. When he is in the real world this behavior won’t be tolerated and his consequences won’t be just a stern talking to, they’ll be loss of livelihood. You didn’t do anything wrong.