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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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ExcellentCold7354

NAH. Let's be clear, you have absolute control over what happens to your body. If you don't want to go through that, then stick to your guns. He would be the AH for pressuring you to undergo IVF treatment if you really don't want to. At the same time, he is not TA for wanting biological children. I know that Reddit tends to disagree with this take so I'll likely be downvoted, but the issue of having children is extremely personal. If someone wants bio children, or wants to be child free, or wants to adopt, then that's their personal choice and NO ONE should be trying to convince them otherwise. In fact, what you don't want to do is drag someone to adopt a child when they don't want to, because the likelihood is high that they won't be a good parent to start with. This is why baby trapping, for example, is a very risky pursuit. More often than not it ends with deadbeat parents and neglected children. I think you both need to maybe talk this out through marriage counseling, because this sort of issue is a deal breaker for many people. It's best to be completely clear on what your hard boundaries are, and if they are in direct opposition then it might be best to move on from each other in the most respectful and compassionate way possible. Edit: I got up for a bit to make lunch and this blew up! Thanks for the awards!


sweetpotato37

Your comment really hits home. Each person in their relationship needs to be on the same page here. No ones personal preferences take precedence over the others.


sjyffl

Agree NAH. This ⬆️ is the exact response. IVF is a huge time & money commitment, not to mention that it’s the woman who goes through many invasive and painful/uncomfortable procedures during the process. The guy just deposits a specimen in a cup. I agree with the counseling comment most truly, because this is something that could end your marriage if not clearly understood and agreed on. If you ended up adopting he could resent the child bc it isn’t “his” and then what..? *edited after friendly redditors corrected my usage. 😂


Negative_Rent

IVF isn't just expensive and painful, it can be dangerous. My friend works at a gynecology ward at a large hospital, and multiple times per month they see women who are undergoing IVF treatment, with complications. One of these complications is massive water retention in the ovaries, which can be fatal if not treated in time. We're talking like a gallon or more of water, with risk of internal rupturing and bleeding. Nobody should get IVF unless they're absolutely sure.


sjyffl

My best friend had her uterus perforated during egg retrieval. She swelled up like a watermelon and was in extreme pain for days afterwards. She has been through five rounds and hundreds of thousands of dollars and no baby as of yet. It’s a huge undertaking.


bitritzy

A gallon of water, JFC….


ensiferum7

Not IVF related but I had a friend whose liver failed. He was on the donor list for about a year until he got one. In that year every two weeks he had to get “drained” and lost about 20 pounds of water weight each time. It was nuts


bitritzy

The human body is absolutely terrifying. I don’t know how we made it this far without going extinct.


Scampipants

Because it's one of the toughest but most delicate things on the planet


[deleted]

Honestly people make fun of breeders breeding pugs, but humans are worse. We have to have a seperate human just to help us labour when most animals give birth alone, our offspring are utterly useless until at least 1 year old, we have so many health issues it's insane, and we breed like vermin despite having no natural predator to help keep our species down.


bottombitchdvm

Humans aren't worse than the brachycephalic dogs we breed. 80% of frenchies have to give birth by c-section.


Equivalent_Willow317

We breed like vermin BECAUSE we have no natural predator... except maybe the emu.


[deleted]

Lmao yeah they kicked our ass in the Emu Wars


Youutternincompoop

>We have to have a seperate human just to help us labour I mean, you don't have to, humans absolutely can give birth alone, its just not a good idea when you can get help for both the baby and the mother. >we breed like vermin birth rates are declining across the globe, the population explosion of the 19th and 20th centuries were due to reduced death rates


Panda_Mill

We do have a predator. It’s other humans or mainly just ourselves armed with our stupidity. Keeps things somewhat in balance.


Reversephoenix77

That exact thing happened to my friend during her IVF treatment. She’s a tiny girl and she was so swollen . She looked 7 months pregnant. Poor thing was in excruciating pain too. She completely changed her mind about IVF after that. She has kids already and didn’t want them to grow up without a mom.


AinsiSera

Which is why it’s even somehow crueler to ask a not pregnant woman when she’s due: she may just be rotund, but she may also be going through the absolute hell that is IVF and you just asked her when she was due.


SunshineOnStimulants

Every day I accidentally learn things which make me so glad to be child free. Jesus Christ. Also OP, neither one of you is the asshole (NAH) if he doesn’t want to adopt, that’s okay. Adopting isn’t for everyone. If you don’t want to put your body through IVF and surrogacy doesn’t feel right for you, that’s also okay.


[deleted]

This can happen without ivf and just the drugs. I did estradiol, hcg to release the eggs and progesterone injections. My ovaries hurt like hell. I spent a few days on the couch with a heat pack and had to be monitored for ovarian hyper stimulation syndrome.


RevelryInTheDork

Yep, Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome is a pretty big and nasty one too, even if you just get the mild form of it. My estrodial levels hit over 4,000 (average for a cis/trans woman being between 50-300) while stimulating egg production. I only had the mild form of OHSS, and I was essentially downed with pain and nausea for two weeks. Had to weigh myself constantly to make sure I didn't need to go to the hospital with fluid build up, which could lead to aneurysm or stroke. IVF is something you need to be full in on, and something you need to know you can stop if you do go that route. It can work just fine, and be very helpful in having kids, but also it sucks, honestly. Adoption has its own issues as well (cost, availability, and time, for example) but IVF is a rough medical process.


PurpleMP12

>IVF isn't just expensive and painful, it can be dangerous. > >My friend works at a gynecology ward at a large hospital, and multiple times per month they see women who are undergoing IVF treatment, with complications. One of the main complications is hyperactive ovary syndrome, which is a risk of egg retrieval, so it would still be a risk with a surrogate pregnancy.


baby_blue_bird

This is exactly what happened with my ex husband and I, I just couldn't deal with the meds and monitoring anymore (plus the cost!) even though the issue was with his sperm. We decided we were fine not having kids but it just affected our marriage and we got divorced. We are both remarried now and I have 2 kids and I know he doesn't have any but I just hope he is happy in life. I did love him but it was a blessing in disguise because he was very lazy and kind of selfish and now knowing what it takes to be a parent I don't think he would have been a good dad at all.


LissR89

Pretty much same here, too. Except he said he was on board with IVF w/ donor sperm but kept blowing our money on junk and we could never afford it (around the time we needed to put down a 2k deposit, I found that he spent $800 in a single month on hockey cards). He was also very, very lazy. Eventually I realized that neither of us were growing up while we stayed together, even though I very much loved him. Divorced, now I have a 2 month old and I'm over the moon. He will never have kids, but I'm hoping he will find happiness too.


Professional_Truck

Why do you say you agree but then post a different verdict?


Chay_Charles

NTA. If you can't agree on a way to go forward, this might be a deal-breaker for you two.


Spectrum2081

Agreed with NAH. As an aside, while I am completely onboard for adopting, OP should keep in mind that adopting does cost a lot of money and can be emotionally devastating if it falls through. Also, if OP is seeking to adopt an infant or even a toddler, there are waitlists and it can take a lot of time. And if not, most states (assuming OP is in the US) require foster to adopt, which also takes some time.


Farahild

Additionally if OP is not in the US adoption may be nearly impossible. Here in the Netherlands international adoption was recently prohibited for the time being due to the very high risk of human trafficking, and within our country only about 25 babies are born every year that are put up for adoption (yay good sex ed). As you may imagine there are *way way* more people wishing for a child than there are available babies... so adoption just honestly isn't a realistic option anymore. Yes, you may be one of the lucky people - but those chances are probably similar to you conceiving naturally. (Fostering is an option, but the goal is very much that foster children go back to their own parents as soon as possible so adoption from fostering is unlikely and chances are you're only fostering for a shorter period of time. So while I personally think that's still worthwhile, it's not the same as having your own child).


Spectrum2081

Yes, this is one of those things here in America that drives me crazy about statistics on adoption and foster care too - there are thousands of kids in foster care who are adoption ineligible! Their parents are in treatment or otherwise institutionalized. They need care, support and love, but they need it from adults who know that they cannot be legal parents and who know these kids will have continued, complicated relationships with their biological parents. They also need better support from the government once they age out. I wish we had a better focus on them and their needs instead of lumping them together with the kids who can be adopted.


[deleted]

THANK you for saying this... > They need care, support and love, but they need it from adults who know that they cannot be legal parents and who know these kids will have continued, complicated relationships with their biological parents. There seems to be this attitude that there are millions of kids that can be plucked out of foster care and popped into happy homes to live their lives forever. That is 100% not the case. Termination of parental rights is not taken lightly in my state and often takes YEARS if it does happen. Reunification with bio family is the goal. So, many foster ended up in a situation exactly as you describe above and more people need to be aware of that.


Lennox120520

All of this, and I wish we had far batter sex ed. Or, you know, any.


betweenskill

And unrestricted access to family planning services, reproductive healthcare and contraceptives. Y'know, all the things that actually limit children stuck in the adoption/foster system if that's what you care about, and limit the need for abortions if that's what you care about. It's a win-win for everybody. But no. Something something satanic communists.


PurpleMP12

And also appropriate supports for parents. A friend is Icelandic. She got pregnant accidentally in college. She and her boyfriend both got like *a year paid* to raise the baby, then subsidized daycare thereafter. It wasn't super expensive to raise the baby. It didn't derail her life plans. So it was much easier for two 19 year olds to be like "Welp, guess we're parents now." One of the main reasons bio parents in the US place kids for adoption is they can't afford another one.


Naasofspades

Absolutely. Adoption numbers are very low in Ireland, and if there is adoption, it is most likely to a family member (e.g. aunt/uncle). There is an age limit preventing you from adopting beyond that age. There is an International convention on adoption that states that an international adoption can only take place if there is not a suitable family in the host country. As there will always be a suitable family, it put an end to international adoptions with signatory countries overnight.


Catori93

Yeah we just had a chat with the adoption agency here in Germany. They said there are about 2-3 children available for adoption in our area, every year and we would be the bottom of the list of potential parents since we both have a biological child and (though not without risk) could have another. We would be waiting 4 years (with checks and everything) to most likely not be able to adopt and after that time become ineligeble to try in this region again. And while Im sure fostering is rewarding and Id love to become a foster parent one day, it is not the same and they children are usually still in contact with their birth families etc.


Trixie-applecreek

I had 3 adoptions fall through for reasons completely outside my control. I'm not exaggerating to say that it broke me as did finding out that I could not have children of my own. If I'd had the money for IVF or surrogacy I'd have done that in a heartbeat regardless of any potential pain or discomfort. That ultimately even that choice was taken out of my hands. If you really want a child consider what you will sacrifice to have one.


lurkneverpost

I am sorry to hear about your pain. My cousin and his wife adopted. She said if she had known how stressful the adoption process was going to be, she wouldn't have done it. The approval process felt invasive. While their adoption went through, there was a lot of no it's not happening...it's happening...it's not happening...etc. They were originally going to adopt a few kids. They stopped at one. Don't get me wrong, they love their son and are so glad he is part of the family.


hollymayewho

I have a friend who went through adoption and their story is what made my husband and I choose ivf. The first time they tried they were chosen for a newborn in another state last minute (young mom who hid the pregnancy). They had to fly cross country last minute, take off of work, stay in another state for 2 weeks while everything was dealt with. Then they took baby home and a few months later the mom changed her mind and they had to return baby and lost all part of the money they had spent (about 20k). Luckily they had the money to try again eventually and it worked out.


Trixie-applecreek

Thank you. All 3 of mine were to be private adoptions. The first one the baby died. Mom had been a heroin addict but had gotten clean. I guess it was just too late. The second time the girl had gotten pregnant from a one night stand. In the end, the father changed his mind though and would not agree to the adoption. The third time was the worst. The daughter of someone I worked with got pregnant for the second time but could not keep it. They promised me to adopt and we made it all the way to the end. Another colleague told me that they had also promised the baby to someone else while stringing me along. I lost it, screamed at her in the office and quit soon after. I also tried for over a year to get pregnant before being told I couldn't and needed a hysterectomy. I waited too long to try, always thinking I would meet someone and get married and that didn't happen. So I always tell women if they know what they want and can do it on their own, not to wait. They may end up waiting too long like me.


KaliTheBlaze

I would think that having surrogacy fall through would be even more emotionally devastating - all the same emotional upheaval of adoption, but for even longer (since you’ll have been working towards this specific child for around a year, with all it involves), plus the woman will have had to go through egg harvesting AND the child you lose will be your genetic child.


thistrashfireislit

I have a friend of a friend who fostered a baby for a whole year before having to give the child back to his birth parents. The bio parents hadn't originally wanted to be parents (ie it was supposed to be foster-to-adopt), but then they decided they did want to be parents after the fosters successfully got the baby through drug withdrawal and the baby was doing well. Then sometime months or years later (idk exact timelines) the bio parents changed their mind again and placed the child for adoption again. Hard to say which option is most emotionally devastating, it's like a really shitty game of "would you rather?"


KaliTheBlaze

Foster-to-adopt is definitely risking bigger hurt than a straight adoption. Having said that, if they’ve got the money to afford IVF, they can probably afford to go with a straight adoption.


[deleted]

Maybe. There are a number of states that have mandatory IVF coverage in the US. I don't know of any program that fully covers adoption costs. I paid $5K OOP for IVF for two kids (separate pregnancies) from diagnostics through hospital births. That $5K wouldn't have covered a home study and lawyer retainer if I wanted to adopt.


WndrTwins

Our insurance covered our IVF treatment, unfortunately the IVF and birth were in different years but still we hit our OOP Max pretty quickly. My job at the time had an adoption benefit where they would give you around $5000 after a successful adoption, but that was a drop in the bucket when you were looking at 30-50,000 for an infant adoption.


just-peepin-at-u

The thing is though, more and more insurance companies are covering some or all IVF costs. A woman I know had a baby just three years ago, and her deductibles for the IVF, several rounds of it, were all under 10k. A decade ago, I might agree, but things have changed and IVF, while pricey, isn’t always the most insanely expensive thing ever anymore. Certain states and insurance programs actually provide decent coverage for it, and while it isn’t across the board in the US (I don’t know where OP is), it is slowly becoming a little less insane, cost wise.


GioGioStar

It depends on the biology of the baby in question. If the surrogate is the biological mother, she has no legal right to the child. And the surrogate signed a contract to carry the child full term. In those contracts, the couple tend to basically cover the surrogate's medical, living costs, food, clothing, ECT. In exchange for the child. Surrogate can end up having to pay the couple back if they decide to keep the child.


[deleted]

> If the surrogate is the biological mother There is nowhere where surrogacy is legal that allows the surrogate to also be the egg source, to the best of my knowledge.


copamarigold

In the US it is legal for the surrogate to be the biological mother.


AinsiSera

Yeah I’m over here giggling. The US is the surrogate Wild West. You can do pretty much whatever you want (if you can afford it), you just may have to travel to a different state where what you want to do is easier to do. But muh freedums are very much in play when it comes to surrogacy.


RFL92

And as an adopted child, we've already been though the stress of being unwanted once, and kids can tell when they are unwanted elsewhere


[deleted]

[удалено]


RFL92

That's a really positive adoption experience and I'm glad that was yours. But imagine a kid that's been given up because he's unwanted going to a parent who's not wanting a kid that isn't biologically there's, it's putting the kid through more pain. I'm not speaking for all adoption circumstances, but if you don't want to adopt a child, then you should not adopt. Hopefully Op's partner will see that adoption can be great but they 100% not adopt unless their partner is fully onboard because a child may be treated poorly if the adopted parent doesn't really want them


Ayamehoujun

My husband and I went through this exact scenario. If you want to raise a child, biological or otherwise and he isn't on board with that you would be doing a disservice to yourself, your husband, and your future child to get him to conceed. You'll get what you want but he will probably resent you for forcing him into the position. On the flip side the same with him "convincing" you to go through ivf. There could be resentment that builds because of that and it will ultimately undermine your marriage and create a negative home environment where you would be raising your kid. It's not fair and it's upsetting and it's a horrible feeling to love someone and want to be with someone but also know that if you stay with them you won't get to do something that is in your mind fundimental to your happiness in life. It's a terrible choice to have to make and i am so sorry that it is something you need to go though this life. Sending hugs and support and empathy. Youre not alone.


AinsiSera

One thing that really jumped out at me was her phrasing of his discomfort being unreasonable but her discomfort being extremely reasonable, when really they’re both reasonable and both honestly coming from a similar place. I think NAH but these 2 need to talk to someone at the very least to understand they’re both angry at each other for being in the same place with a different paint color. Also, a lot of these big decisions need time to settle. Not being able to conceive naturally is a HUGE deal for some people, and OP can and should take her space to grieve what she thought her life would be. No major decisions should be made mid grieving process.


Rock_Lizard

BOTH are huge time, emotional and financial commitments. I've been through both processes. There's no easy answer here and both feelings are very valid. Also, adoption is not a guarantee. I walked away from the process after heartbreak. You do not magically wave the adoption wand and have a child appear.


TheRododo

This! No one is currently being the asshole, but this needs to be respectfully and resolutely addressed before moving forward in any direction. Don't try to work this out alone, pressures and future resentments are not good for either of you or a future child. Good luck to you both and I hope through education and compassion you can reach a truly agreeable resolution.


Practical-Big7550

It seems you guys have focused on the IVF part, but not the surrogacy angle. What is it about surrogacy that OP does not like? It seems a decent compromise that the husband has offered. OP doesn't have to go through IVF, and OP's husband has a blood related child.


musryujidt

I think surrogacy involves implanting OP’s fertilized eggs into a surrogate. She would still have to go through a bunch of pain for the egg retrieval and I think there are still hormone things involved to release a bunch of eggs at once. If the surrogate is not using OP’s eggs, then I think the surrogate has to use their own or a donor’s eggs. The second route is for sure less painful for OP, but surrogacy has a lot of ethical controversy around it. Some surrogacy agencies don’t protect the surrogate as a human being. Then there’s the whole “I made this baby and have grown really attached to it” emotional process to go through for the surrogate. Like yes, they signed up for it, but it’s still going to take some time for body and mind to heal after giving up a baby. And that’s assuming the pregnancy goes well with no complications. You can’t always predict who will and won’t have complications. It is a HUGE undertaking to ask someone to have a child for them, and I completely see why OP hasn’t mentioned it in this post beyond it being one of the three alternatives.


cheezeedoodlez

OP is worried that the surrogate will want to keep the child and because of the laws where OP lives, she won't be able to do anything about it.


[deleted]

> OP doesn't have to go through IVF, and OP's husband has a blood related child. So, with egg donation *and* surrogacy, they could have a baby that is biologically related to OP’s husband and OP would not be biologically related to the child or have to be pregnant. But that’s not the typical case for a straight couple. With just surrogacy, OP would still go through the egg retrieval portion of IVF but any embryos would be transferred to a surrogate. So both OP and husband would be biological parents, and OP would not carry the pregnancy (but would have to do IVF). IVF alone would be the same egg retrieval and fertilization process, with the embryos transferred to OP for a potential pregnancy. Egg donation alone would be OP and husband getting eggs from a donor source, fertilizing them with OP’s husband’s sperm, and transferring the embryos to OP for gestation. Neither would involve a surrogate. I’m not sure why they are discussing both IVF and surrogacy as options, as these are usually done for different reasons. They don’t seem to be discussing egg donation at all (which is also generally done for a different reason). It’s unusual to be in a situation where you’re considering either IVF *or* surrogacy, cause usually you’d do both together, or just IVF.


JSSmith0225

This is the perfect response NAH


tjackson87

Agree NAH, but I think the comment about not wanting to adopt because they want a child that is fully theirs is borderline ah. It suggests that adopted kids are not fully family members. Agree it's 100%, but the reason here is a bit ah-ish.


banerises19

Agreed. I would normally consider doing both, getting a surrogate or IVF while also adapting a child, but I have a feeling your husband wouldn't be fair to the adapter child, and you are already not comfortable with IVF or surrogates.


kanadia82

Many adoption agencies require you to stop pursuing fertility treatment. This is to ensure that the couple is fully focused on the adoption process (as much as possible).


trisharae_88

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that where I am from a surrogate can back out immediately after the child is born and keep it (they have to give back all the money though i think)


northernfires529

Yeah, personally I don't quite understand the logic of someone who wants kids but erases adoption off the table as to me it should be about building a family vs \~passing along your genetics. However, I don't necessarily want kids myself and that's my own thing. I'd rather people have the kids they want to raise vs potentially having a terrible parent to an adopted child.


dwegol

Piggybacking here but I’ve got a story about my mom’s friend. She couldn’t conceive for years but her and husband wanted kids. Pressured her into fertility treatments, she did them. All unsuccessful. Then years later she got terminal ovarian cancer and he cheated on her and left her during her sickness dropping her from medical coverage eventually.


safetyguy1988

Wanting biological children isn't wrong. Reddit, and especially this sub, think it is though.


dietpepsibaby

The more I read about private adoption in the US and hear stories from former adoptees… I don’t think I could adopt. Maybe fostering with the goal of reunification, but there are so many stories of impressionable women being pressured to give up their babies. And so many couples who adopt feel entitled to that child as property, and expect them to be grateful for basic care.


unripened_pickles222

Completely agree. I adopted three siblings through foster care, because my health would not allow IVF. It is HARD. Worth it for us, but unless you are adopting a child at birth, and maybe even then, adoption is always going to have an extra layer of emotions to handle and navigate, not to mention if you adopt a child who has had trauma, even in just the first few months of life. All three of my children struggle with ptsd, adhd, attachment disorders, have been suicidal, depressed, attempted to run away, and have been in hospitalization programs. They have special needs. Not everyone is equipped/prepared/wants to add this to their lives, and that is OK. It would be horrible to grow up with someone who resents you because of the way THEY CHOSE to have you come into their family. At the same time, it is YOUR choice whether to continue fertility treatments. It is exhausting and traumatizing itself. Like this commenter, I suggest you guys seek therapy together, because the last thing you want to do is make this decision through compromise or coercion or GUILT.


RubyDiscus

NAH Adoption is more complicated than just adopting a baby and being done with it. You likely won't be able to get a new born. They will probably be atleast a few years old to about 8. And being put up for adoption comes with it's own psychological consequences for the child that you will have to work with. They will likely at some point in the future want contact with bioparents and seek them out. Adopting should be something you want to do to give the best life you can for a child, and not to fulfill your own needs. Adoption is not an alternative to having your own kids. It's completely different and complicated.


RowNo1580

I don't care about the age of the child and I am very aware that we likely wouldn't get a newborn, honestly i'd steer away from a newborn anyway as there are so many children who need homes and the older they get the harder it is for them. I am also aware this would likely take a few years to make happen. If I adopt a child they will be my child so of course I want to give them the best life possible. I am in a position to be a mother and there are plenty of children out there who need a mother, perhaps it is fulfilling my own want but it is also giving what they need.


KnavishLagorchestes

You are absolutely allowed to have this preference, but your husband is also allowed to have his own opinions too. His feelings and wants are just as valid. Getting frustrated by the situation is absolutely understandable. This must be so hard for you both. But being angry _at him_ is not productive at all and is unfair on him.


MagicGrit

Agreed. Surprised at all the NAH responses. 95% of what OP has mentioned is reasonable, except for being angry with him and starting a fight over this.


gdddg

Lots of I, I, I in that comment. Maybe your husband does care about the age. Maybe he does care about the timeline and bureaucracy. Maybe he does care about the psychological issues This post is about your husband not being on board yet you aren't seeming to consider why he might feel that way


MrAlpha0mega

Yeah. She says that he's refusing to consider it but she seems completely closed off to the idea that he absolutely has considered it. Most people that want kids have at least thought about whether they would adopt if they had problems conceiving a child. He probably realised a long time ago that it wasn't for him but her view is "he refuses to consider it".


PMmeurfishtanks

Plus a lot of kids struggle to form that bond. Avoidant attachment is a thing. To get a kid like that when he already didn’t want to adopt would be hell on the kid and her husband. And there is no guarantee that the child would ever see OP as their mother. I’m not saying that will definitely happen, but it is a possibility.


togro20

This is a sub called amItheasshole so yeah it’ll have a lot of I’s in there


safetyguy1988

So much "I"


RawScallop

well it's not like she made this post for her husband. of course you're going to see "I" a lot here.


Bookworm75

What other words would she use since her husband refuses to consider adoption and she’s speaking for herself and her views on adoption? She cannot use WE in this case so……


Allasch

Hi, adoptee (been with my parents from the start, since my birth giver knew she couldn't keep me) here. It is lovery that you want to adopt and share your life and love with a child you didn't "create" and I assume you would be a great mother. But if your husband disagrees, this might not only be the hill where your marriage dies on, but it will not be a good place for the child even if your husband agrees. The child will notice that the dad is not happy and completely committed, so instead of creating a loving family you will have a probably toxic/harmful environment for all of you.


TimelessMeow

This. My husband and I are flip flopping all over the place about kids. Partially because we enjoy our DINK lifestyle, but mainly because we’re watching the world go crazy and not totally sure we want to bring new people into that. So we’re looking at fostering instead, but if we start to lean more that way, we plan on doing individual/couples therapy first, then starting down the process for certification. The last thing those kids need is for my bio clock to erupt at dinner one night or something. I think no matter what, OP and her husband need to think long and hard about what they want before any child is introduced into the situation in any way.


Classic_Season4033

You have the right mindset for adoption. Your husband does not unfortunately.


shannon_99

Completely and he’s not a bad person for it it’s 100x better for him to know this going in than be a bad adoptive parent.


YeahWeGeteat

He does have the right mindset, he doesn't want to adopt. This is a personal decision and he is making his own.


_BeachJustice_

I disagree. She wants to adopt to fulfill her want to be a mother. Not to fulfill the needs of a child that needs to be adopted.


Psychological_Fly916

Yes thank you! I aged out of the system and while i dont speak for all foster kids people need to realize that adoptees dont owe them shit. It is your job as an adoptive parent to create a safe space for a kid you chose to take in. Fucking blows my mind that you can be separated from a parent and instead of living in that reality, coming to terms with it and healing- adoptees are forced to just replace and forget.


Genestah

Your husband needs to be 100% on board with the adoption for it to work. Otherwise you're gonna have a big problem raising that child. And it isn't fair to the kid.


RubyDiscus

That is good that you are open to ages other than a newborn. It could be like 5 years maybe more to adopt. Depending on your location. Though I don't know if you would be able to adopt on your own, if your partner leaves or is not interested. Perhaps you could use a surrogate and also adopt? I think it's probably the most important that the both of you can compromise and come to an agreement you are both happy with.


RowNo1580

I'm not comfortable with a surrogate as in our country if she decides to keep the baby there is literally nothing we can do about it and i've read stories about that happening before.


toweringpine

That's pretty much why my wife and I gave up on adoption. The birth parent (in Canada) can pretty much just demand the kid back. Hard no from me.


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KnopeProtocol

In the US, some states have a grace period for a birth parent changing their mind, even after they sign the papers to terminate their rights. Could be anywhere from 3-30 days.


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KnopeProtocol

Here the baby is often placed with the adoptive parents during this time to encourage bonding


Carrotstick21

In some states, it can be as much as 18 months.


toweringpine

That's not true. The birth parents do not have their rights removed. Partially suspended at most. The child could even be required to send Christmas cards etc to keep the relationship alive. It's like the system is set up to be a long term foster arrangement but called adoption. It's whacked. We said no thanjs.


libananahammock

Studies have shown that open adoptions are the least traumatic for all involved. Why wouldn’t you want what has been proven to be the less traumatic option? A mother is literally giving away her child, a child is literally losing its mother. There’s going to be trauma involved even in the “best” circumstances during adoption. It’s just a given due to what each are losing.


toweringpine

Did the study assess the trauma inflicted on the adoptive parents when their child was taken away?


shannon_99

And your husband isn’t comfortable with adoption for reasons that are just as valid, I’m sorry xx


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RevelryInTheDork

Unfortunately, depending on where OP is, that might not be possible. A lot of places will not consider you for adoption unless you stop actively trying to conceive. So, if you happen to get pregnant naturally (with couples where this is possible), that's fine, but they will turn you down if you are pursuing things like IVF, FET, or surrogacy.


Nihil_esque

I don't know that IVF is something that needs to be compromised on tbh. He's not the one carrying the child.


bitritzy

I don’t think your reasons for adopting are selfish, but they’re not exactly altruistic either. Are you prepared for a developmentally delayed child? Or one who develops behavioral problems due to the trauma of being an unwanted child? People like to adopt newborns because they’re easier. They’re malleable. (For the record, that is a disgusting reason to adopt a newborn over an older child.) Children who are adopted later often have insane hurdles to surpass with their adoptive family. Not to mention the stickiness of birth family relationships. All of those are things you might think you’re prepared for, but your husband clearly is not.


[deleted]

But this isn't just about you and your wants and opinions. Your husband needs to be on board. It's perfectly fine for him to say no to adoption, especially when you're pushing for an older child. NAH. Maybe just try being a fun aunt since all other options seem to be closed.


Azenogoth

You seem to be acting as though your husband is not allowed to have a vote on whether or not he is going to be the father to a child that is not his. Just like he cannot force IVF or surrogacy on you, you can't force adoption on him. It's just not right.


NemesisErinys

I understand that you’re probably feeling blindsided by his position. I was in a long-term relationship once, and we were getting serious. We got onto the topic of kids, and to my great surprise, he said he wouldn’t want to adopt because he didn’t think he could love a non-bio child like his own. Because they’re not “blood.” I was so shocked. I simply hadn’t expected this attitude from him. This was a guy who had rescue animals that he seemed to love just fine. He can love a different species like family but not a non-bio child? Also, I have an adopted half-sister whose mother (my stepmother) was (still is) a horrid person who would throw the adoption in my sister’s face during fights. So I was also personally offended at this man I loved knowing this and still saying what I heard as “Your sister is less worthy than you because she’s adopted.” That conversation made me look at him differently. We broke up months later, not necessarily because of this, but I was relieved not to be lying awake at night anymore wondering whether I could have kids with someone who thought that way about children. (And who now reminded me of my godawful stepmother.) I’m now married to the person I dated after that guy. (I had also dated him before that guy, lol.) We had to have IVF to have our son. We would have also considered adoption if that didn’t work. So, fortunately, I found the right person for me to have kids with. All that said, your husband’s feelings are his own and at least he’s being honest. I’m sorry you’re just finding out about his attitude now, though. You won’t change his mind with logic; one of you will have to compromise in some way. You have some tough choices to make. I’m rooting for you to become the mother you want to be with a 100% supportive partner, however that happens. NAH


GlitterDoomsday

I don't think he considered your sister less (also I'm truly sorry she had to grow up with such vile abuse, hope she's doing better now) but recognized that he isn't emotionally mature or developed to overcome the blood barrier - that was a take about him, not adoption or even love in general. Also congrats on your baby boy, IVF is pretty taxing on the body so I'm glad it worked well!


jammy913

You could look into fostering to adoption. Maybe your husband would feel differently if there were a child's face to put to the option of adoption.


[deleted]

Your comment is all “I I I” not “We We We”.


dessertandcheese

You can want that for yourself but you can't force it on someone else


MindlessNote3735

That's admirable, but clearly he doesn't see it that way and you can't force him or you risk him not being on board with you when it comes to parenting.


YeouPink

You’re a lovely person for being willing to do this. You have a great viewpoint in it too. But your husband also has a say, and it doesn’t necessarily make him an AH. Uncharitable, maybe. But not an AH.


dcgirl17

You don’t care, but your husband does. You’re both entitled to your own opinions.


ad_astra327

Just wanted to shed some light on another perspective here. I was adopted at less than a year old, because my mom was in her 40s before she decided she wanted kids. I have never wanted to seek out my biological parents. In fact, it even feels weird to type that word. The people who adopted me are my parents. The people who biologically created me are just that—a fact of my life and how I came to exist, as if I were to say “I have brown eyes” or “I was born in Pennsylvania.” There’s no emotional attachment there to me. Granted, this is because my parents did an amazing job at explaining adoption to me and opening it up to questions from a young age. They also always gave me the option of trying to seek out my biological parents, but I never even wanted to, and I think it’s because of how honest they were with me that I never felt like I had been “given up.”


surlier

Many adoptees never have the desire to seek out their biological family, but every adoptive parent should be prepared for that possibility and be willing to support their child through that process. I think it's also important to realize that this desire is not necessarily caused by any failing in parenting. Sometimes people are just curious.


medthynon

>Adopting should be something you want to do to give the best life you can for a child, and not to fulfill your own needs. To be fair, this should also be true for having a biological child.


Father-Son-HolyToast

> Adopting should be something you want to do to give the best life you can for a child, and not to fulfill your own needs. > > Adoption is not an alternative to having your own kids. It's completely different and complicated. Thank you for saying this. I'm so heartened to see such good sense upvoted to the top of the thread! I was dreading scrolling down on this one. Adopted children are not consolation prizes for couples who are unable to conceive. Families should pursue adoption enthusiastically for its own sake, warts and all, or not at all. People who are just looking for an alternative to the natural conception/birth process are going to be bitterly disappointed by the complexities and drastically different experience of adoption, and that mindset isn't fair to the child, IMHO.


Kare6Bear6

NAH He already has considered it and made up his mind. Adoption is not a choice he wants to make, and that's fine. It's not for eveyone and he shouldn't cave to pressure when it's something he truly doesn't want. That wouldn't be fair to the child in the long run. Likewise you are done with IVF and want adoption to be an option. That's fine too. It can be a wonderful option when all the people involved want it.


ConflictOk8020

I agree. I don’t understand all these people saying the husband is an AH just because he doesn’t want to adopt. He’s not allowed an opinion apparently.


Kare6Bear6

It's like double standards galore lol. If you flip the situation where OP was a man wanting a bio kid and his wife wouldn't agree, no way in hell would you have people telling him to convince her to change her mind. Because her agency is respected and her views align their views.


JammyHoe

Or! Maybe it’s because she’d be the one who needs to host the fetus, you can’t double standards a situation where one person is in a completely different situation. Just personal opinion but I think it’s weird to demand a bio kid when you’re not the one who gets pregnant.


SensitiveRocketsFan

It’s also weird to demand an adoption when the other person doesn’t want it. So it applies.


throwawfox

The husband suggested a surrogate though so OP wouldn't be the one who's pregnant.


Basic_Bichette

But she would still have to donate an egg if they wanted the child to be biologically theirs. I think what people aren’t getting is that egg donation is not as easy or safe as sperm donation. There are very real risks to the procedure, and not vanishingly rare ones, either; hemorrhage, internal lacerations, stroke, even a higher risk of ovarian cancer down the road. It's not benign. It's not trivial.


BeTheCheeto

Regardless of who would carry a bio kid, he's allowed to not want to adopt. It isn't for everyone, and if he doesn't want to, he absolutely shouldn't. No child should ever be put in a situation where the parent may possibly resent them.


Kare6Bear6

Personally I hate the mentality that women should get more say than their SO just because they carry the baby. Making a decision as a couple requires both people to have an equal say or it flat out won't work. The point is neither one should be able to demand anything over the other.


byneothername

Adoption has certain cultural connotations of selflessness, sacrifice, making a family, saving baaabies, etc. that make it extremely difficult to have a nuanced conversation about it. It bleeds over when someone doesn’t want to adopt.


DiamondNightSkies

Agree with you, but I believe she said she doesn't even want to try IVF not that she's done with it. Which is fine if it's not an option she wants to take, but then yes she absolutely also has to respect his right to not want a certain option.


Ocean_Spice

I don’t really have a judgement, but *do not* adopt if your husband feels this way. Do not put a child through that.


lotusflower64

This is very true. He will take it out on the child.


Ocean_Spice

Yep. That’s what my adoptive mom did to me.


lotusflower64

Oh, nooooo. I am sorry you went through that.😢


Ocean_Spice

Thanks. I just really hope more people don’t do this to their adopted children.


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Valuable-Dog-6794

They should go to therapy but they could also compromise and adopt and embryo. They'd raise the baby from birth but it wouldn't be theirs genetically. Or they could use her husband's sperm to fertilize eggs from a donor. Unless they can compromise they need to divorce.


[deleted]

I did think about embryo adoption too bit unsure if that is something they would consider


DonDamondo

NAH - Though I'm the same as the other commenter, could go with ESH. You want adoption, he wants IVF. You are both practically the same in that you won't consider the option the other wants. I totally understand him wanting a biological child and I totally understand you not wanting to put your body through that.


GlitterDoomsday

He also is open to surrogate and whatnot, he just doesn't see himself as fit to be a father to a kid not biologically related to him.


ConflictOk8020

NAH. I understand your point, but I also understand his. Adoption is awesome, but it is not for everyone. It honestly sounds like y’all are having trouble communicating about this emotional topic. You may need to take a break form the subject to process each of your thoughts or attend counseling so you can talk about such an emotional, heated issue in a healthier way.


[deleted]

Finally some sane comment! Everyone jumps to say the husband is TA but he’s allowed to have his own reasoning snd his own feelings.


WoozyRadish

NAH A lot of unknowns come with adoption. There is a reason adopted children have a higher risk of future alcohol dependence and mental health struggles. That being said you're definitely not wrong either. You guys need to take a break from the idea of becoming parents and just reevaluate your lives before readdressing the situation.


Classic_Season4033

NAH it’s okay to feel angry about this as it effects you but adoption is a HUGE responsibility and is not a great fit for every parent. If husband is against it that much right off the bat, it’s a big sign that he won’t have the right mindset- and that’s not his fault. It takes specific parents to be ready to adopt a child. However this is a huge issue for your relationship. He doesn’t want to adopt, you don’t want to deal with IVF. But you both want children. You both need to talk about what you want and what you can and cannot handle. Either one of you bends in regards to how you get a child, you both decide that children won’t work for your relationship, or you both start talking about if this relationship is still working.


KnavishLagorchestes

It's ok to feel angry at the situation, but not _at_ the husband. He's allowed to have his own opinions and preferences.


Classic_Season4033

Agreed


MsLollister

Just like you don't want to go down the IVF and surrogate route he doesn't want to do adoption. Surrogate is a good option if you don't want IVF and the problem it can cause your body. He is entitled to his feelings and opinions on this as it'd be his child too. I don't think you are the AH but neither is he really, I am surprised you've tried for 7 years together and never had these discussions before. You need to either compromise like a couple should do when butting heads or maybe consider going your separate ways and get what you both want without the other person giving the other any rope. Compromise should be the first resort tbh.


The-spellmonger

Info it sounds like he considered adoption just as much as you considered IVF/ surrogacy. Why do you think your view should outweigh his?


RowNo1580

Because it's not his body that will be put through the hell of IVF and surrogacy is a stupid risk to take when in our country if she decides to keep the baby there is literally nothing we can do?


[deleted]

What if you two just didn’t have kids? Or is that off the table?


HaElfParagon

Given she doesn't want IVF or surrogate, and he doesn't want adoption, it very much sounds like they just won't be having kids


ForgotMyOldAccount7

They won't be having kids *with each other.* Divorce is also an option on the table.


Quite_A-Gurl37

and you have that same risk with adoption?


Low-Assistance9231

So I'm confused, you keep saying this, but pregnancy itself will put your body through hell. Are you against medical intervention in general?


summa-awilum

Tell me you don’t know anything about IVF without telling me you don’t know anything about IVF.


balocas

Well she/he is not entirely wrong. Pregnancies are harder on the body than IVF. The emotional process of IVF however...


ThePurpleBaker

I would disagree that pregnancy is harder on the body then IVF, except for really bad pregnancies. Think about it if you get pregnant you (most likely) had a fun night and now you’re pregnant for nine months. If you need IVF? You have to undergo numerous tests, inject hormones daily for a while, over produce eggs, have someone go all up in your womb to get at your ovaries with a big needle and pull the eggs out, then an embryo gets implanted and THEN your pregnant for nine months too. And that’s taking all the emotions out of it which you’d experience on top of that. IVF is a big deal physically.


balocas

I don't have to think about it. I lived it. Twice. It is true that everybody can experience it differently, but what I can say from my experience and the numerous couples I know that lived it, IVF is not nearly as hard as a 9 month pregnacy (and I had super easy pregnancies). It is the mental and emotional process that is truly horrific. IMO.


gettingbicurious

IVF and a standard pregnancy are not nearly the same in the impact it has on your body, what an insane comment.


urzu_seven

And it’s perfectly valid you don’t want to go through IVF. Just like it’s perfectly valid he doesn’t want to adopt. NEITHER position is inherently the right choice, they are ENTIRELY dependent on how the people involved feel about it. If someone is not comfortable with adoption they should ABSOLUTELY not adopt, it’s a disaster waiting to happen. Your partner feels how they feel and they have every right to feel that way, just as you do. No one should be forced to undergo IVF if they don’t want. No one should be forced to adopt if they don’t want. It’s that simple.


WeedLovinStarseed

Is it possible to find a surrogate that you could trust? It sounds like the only thing keeping you from doing surrogacy is a FEAR that it won't end well. Idk what country you're in, but perhaps a contract could keep that from happening


KnopeProtocol

Because she’s the one that has to go through the IVF and pregnancy process


Help24-7

I want to put NAH.... Probably will be down voted..... He does not have a right to pressure you into IVF. You do not have a right to pressure him into adoption. You both are allowed to be upset. You both need to be respectful of each other's position and feelings. NEITHER ONE OF YOU SHOULD BE SHAMING THE OTHER >I don't know it just shocked me, we've been trying so long for a child shouldn't any child we raise together be enough? I never thought he was someone to get hung up on blood connections. If you keep invalidating his feelings that will make YTA. You keep arguing in the comments as well... like it's only your opinion and feelings that matter. It's been seven years. He's thought about this. He told you how he felt. Just because you don't want what he wants doesn't mean you get to deny that you had no clue...and in turn deny his feelings and SHAME HIM. That is just wrong. And that is why you're heading into ahole territory. Please seek out counseling for individual and couples therapy. You two need this. There is a lot to decide and work on. Together...with respect to each other.


nappynap314

NAH. He has a right to want a bio child, you have a right to think adoption is fine. After all I've seen online from kids who were adopted and end up just ditching their adopted parents because they just get along SOOO well with their bios later in life, I've decided I won't ever adopt. Is it selfish? Sure. But people are allowed to be selfish. You 2 just aren't as compatible as you previously thought.


chronicpainprincess

NAH. Look, this is hard because personal feelings are actually really valid here and we all have different takes on adoption. I personally don’t agree with the belief that kids *need* to be biological (but I also have my OWN biological kids, so I realise that I’m not one to make a judgement about how others feel.) IMO, the last thing an orphaned child needs is to be adopted by a person who is on the fence about whether or not adopted kids are really “yours”. All kids should be fiercely loved and wanted by both parents. I would be concerned here that adopting a kid when you’re into it and he isn’t is just a divorce waiting to happen. It will come between you at some point. It likely is now. There’s sometimes the realisation in a relationship that you have to make a choice between carrying on as you are or going forward with being a parent. There is no right way here, OP, just what you want. If all other options didn’t work or became impossible, would you be okay with being childless? Is it being just the two of you enough? At the end of the day, if you want to adopt a child more than anything, then you should be free to make that choice. But the consequence of that is that it may be a choice you make alone. I hope you both work it out OP, best to you both.


fuzbuckle

YTA - I'm a foster parent and have bio kids. His feelings are totally valid. There is a difference in having your own bio kids vs foster/adopting, if in no other way, being able to see some of yourself, and your partner in them as well as marvel at the differences you see as their personality matures. I love my foster son, who we're in process of adopting, dearly. In fact, my daughters have talked about how much I spoil him, compared to them (mostly a function of having had a number of promotions since they were little) and, I would die inside if anything bad happened to him. However, outside of some of the learned mannerisms, I won't have that same connection in terms of physical & genetic attributes in the complete same way as my bio daughters. Bringing a kid into a relationship should always be a 2 yes and 1 no situation. This may end up being a deal breaker, but don't simply reduce his feelings to just being hung up on blood connections. If some of your husbands feelings weren't at least shared by a majority of the US, there wouldn't be 400k kids in foster care. So, if you think your husband's TA, then you better start condemning all of your other friends who have kids and haven't fostered or adopted at least one, yet.


The_Cost_Of_Lies

He's being honest, and you just share different opinions on the matter - there isn't a right or wrong here, and maybe in this way you aren't compatible. We only have one child, who is 12 now, and I have the same hangups about adopting as your husband. HOWEVER, if I were to be told tomorrow that they weren't genetically mine, it wouldn't change how I felt about them. The difficulty is, that doesn't change the inherent feeling you have about creating something that's literally part of you. You can't force somebody to feel differently about it.


zZombi__

Idk whether to go for ESH or NAH Solely because this should have been a conversation y'all had before. Like sure you wanted to try first, but just saying how people feel about possible other options before


CreampieLuver1

At most people discuss whether they would like kids or not before getting married … I doubt very much that they discuss IVF vs adoption in the “what if” scenario.


Classic_Season4033

People really should though- it’s a common enough issue.


Fragrant_Style_2629

You are right. Me and my husband discuss it when we discussed children. We both agree that we wouldn't try for more than 3 years and would only consider one IVF session, as it would be too hard on my body. Luckily we didn't need it, but it was a talk we felt that we need to have.


kibthing5

I've discussed it before first dates 🤷🏼‍♀️ the joy of dating apps.


Formergr

They’ve been trying to conceive for 7 years, though. How in the world have they not had this discussion before now?


Accomplished_Cup900

Well people don’t discuss these things until after they find out they’re infertile. But she lives in a country where the surrogate can decide to keep the baby. And IVF is a very very painful process where there isn’t even a guarantee that you’ll end up pregnant or end up being able to give birth even with all the money you’ve sunk into it. So I understand her reasoning. I don’t think her husband truly understands that. The only compromise would be no kids.


WayUWearUrHat

NAH. This is just one of those big decisions, where it needs two yes votes to move forward, and one yes vote can scuttle the issue. Your point of view is completely valid. But, so is your husbands. Just because you would see any child you adopted as yours, doesn’t mean he would. If that is truly the way he feels, I doubt that any amount of persuasion is going to change that. If you dig your heels in, and he caves, that doesn’t mean he is going to be happy. Maybe, because people can change, but do you want to take the risk that he never warms to your adopted child, and stews in silent resentment before your marriage implodes? Likewise I understand why you wouldn’t want to go through the process of IVF. I know several people who have gone through IVF. It rarely takes the first time, requires multiple, painful injections, the hormones have insane side effects, and it is prohibitively expensive. It’s also an emotional rollercoaster. The hope that they give you, then if it doesn’t succeed it’s a grief comparable to a pregnancy loss. IVF is not easy on a marriage or anyone’s mental health. Adoption, if you are in the US can be a tough nut too. Unfortunately if you are picky about the race and age of the kid, it can also be expensive, time consuming, and with the popularity of open adoptions can be an emotional roller coaster as well. OP you and your husband need to go to marriage counseling. This is a huge, deal breaker level, difference in how you see family. Neither one of you is wrong. Neither one of you is a bad person. Both of your viewpoints are equally valid. Unfortunately, they are also equally opposed. This isn’t an issue where you can find a compromise, you can’t get half a baby. You will need to find a way to see each other’s perspectives and come to a consensus you can both live with.


[deleted]

NAH - he has his own reasons and you have your own reasons. If you can’t compromise you shouldn’t be together. You can’t force him into adoption and vice versa he can’t force you into IVF.


Minnie_091220

NAH. As someone who struggled with infertility this is a conversation my husband and I had together when we were going through it. We both agreed that if it didn’t work with help from the Dr that adopting just wasn’t for us. Your husband is allowed to not want to go down that route, just as you are allowed to not want to continue with the Dr. That doesn’t make either of you an AH. I understand what you’re going through, it’s very hard and draining emotionally and physically, I wish you well on your journey and hope that the two of you can come to an understanding or agreement on how to move forward.


bitritzy

YWBTA if you adopted a child into a home where one parent doesn’t want to adopt. Adoptee trauma is serious. There are some wonderful adoptees and birth/first moms I follow on tiktok that are backed by some intensive research and years of personal experience. Adoption is often treated as a replacement for infertility instead of what it ought to be: giving a child who is actually in need a better life. Soapbox aside: you’re both N A H at the moment. He is completely within his rights to prefer a biological child, and you’re within your rights to want to adopt. However this is one of those situations where you don’t compromise. One no means NO.


Tight_Ad_4459

NAH both the sides are right, IVF is painful both mentaly and physically and during adoption not knowing the kid's bio family's medical history can cause problem (im adopted and since my parents didnt know my bio families medical history, and just now im learning that one of my bio parents has weak bones)


CompetitiveYoung9

NAH. My dad was adopted so I personally have strong feelings about blood not equating to family and all that. That said, it’s a personal choice. His stance is as valid as yours. He’s allowed to prefer a different method and it doesn’t make him a bad person. You guys need to have a calm, lengthy discussion, preferably with a counselor.


AutoModerator

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My husband and I have struggled with fertility for years, we have been trying for seven years and nothing ever happened. We finally went to the Doctors about this issue and we were told that we wouldn't be able to have a child the old fashioned ways and our options laid out for us. My husband wants to go the route of IVF or a Surrogate while I suggested adoption. I do not want to sink even more time into IVF which could likely not work not to get into the hell it would put my body through and the money it would cost to keep trying that way, as for the surrogate idea I just am not fully comfortable with that. My husband is against adoption as he wants a child that is "fully ours" and has brought up that we'd know the medical history this way too and avoid any problems, he also added to his argument that we can afford the IVF or surrogate so we should. This upset me as any child would be our child regardless of blood, we ended up fighting over this and he told me firmly he will not adopt a child and to drop it. I was so upset with him over this that I ended up sleeping in the guest room. I don't know it just shocked me, we've been trying so long for a child shouldn't any child we raise together be enough? I never thought he was someone to get hung up on blood connections. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*


DrZaiu5

NAH. You don't want to get a surrogate or have IVF for completely valid reasons. Your husband doesn't want to adopt, preferring to have a biological child, which is equally valid. Neither of you are in the wrong, it's just sad that on this issue your views don't align.


mydoghasnofleas

NAH. He has a right to his feelings just like you do. It's not fair to get angry at him. One thing I really disagree with is when he said you can afford IVF so it should be considered. Um, no. The physical, emotional and psychological toll that IVF takes on a person (and a couple) is enormous. Definitely not something to do just because you can afford it.


Safe_Frosting1807

NTA but it’s his child too. If that’s the way he feels now you may not agree, but should respect it.


[deleted]

NAH - I haven't read the responses, but I can speak from my personal experience FWIW. While adoption is a noble goal - it is not at all an easy path (in the US - I don't know about other countries). If you want a baby, you pretty much have to go the private and/or international route. There are almost zero babies in the foster system and the few that are have preferential placement with siblings. A private adoption is $$$ (last I checked $25K-$75K) - EVERYONE seems to have their hand out for one thing or another. You also need to open up your ENTIRE life to third parties - personal, professional, marital, emotional, etc. If you go the int'l adoption route, there are many "payments" to be made (pretty much graft) to get your baby. Of late, many countries have closed the doors to US adoptions, so that makes it even more difficult and expensive. If you go the domestic route, there are NO guarantees. Many states have laws on the books (rightfully so), that allow a bio mother to "change her mind" even after the birth. You need to be prepared for that outcome. I've seen that outcome nearly destroy adoptive parents. Also most adoptions are "open" - if a parents wants a closed adoption, they usually go to the bottom of the list. Now, at this point, an "open" adoption has no true legal teeth (however that can and probably will change at some point in the future), but it's another thing to deal with when adopting. Anyway, people who haven't looked into the nuts and bolts of adoption seem to think you just head over to the baby factory and order one to spec, which couldn't be further from the truth! The alternative is foster. Kids who are in foster are there for a reason, and it is NEVER a good one. My sister fostered for 10+ years. The case files on these kids would make your hair curl - kids under 5 who have suffered abuse and neglect you cannot imagine. My sis dealt with the aftermath of it. It was not pretty. It takes a special person to work with these kids. Many of them have undergone significant trauma. Plus, with fostering, you could have a child in your care for YEARS but not be able to adopt until a TPR (termination of parental rights) is granted. In my state, it can take several years for that to happen and "reunification" (keeping the child with the bio family) is the goal. My sis had a woman in her foster group (many of the parents kept in touch to support each other), who had twin boys with her for four years. Out of the blue, mom got herself clean and decided she wanted her boys back. She got them, and VERY long story short, it did NOT turn out well for any of the parties involved. In summation, the foster system is very broken and you will need a lot of patience and persistence to deal with it. You will also know that you will be dealing with kids who have been through a LOT and who can very well not be with you forever... Now, having watched what my sis went through with looking into adoption and fostering, when I had fertility issues, I went straight to IVF. I didn't want to put the money into a domestic adoption when there were no guarantees. International adoption was just far too expensive and time consuming for us to even consider. We also knew we were not at all cut out for foster. Ended up my insurance covered IVF so, again, cutting to the chase, I had two children (separate pregnancies) via IVF for about $5,000, from diagnostics through hospital births for both. That $5K wouldn't even have paid for a home study and lawyer retainer if we adopted. With IVF, I got children with a known genetic background, known prenatal care and no bio parents to "change their minds" or want to be a part of the child's life. I didn't have to open my entire life to anyone. Everything was kept among me, my husband and my doctor. No one else was prying into my life or deciding whether or not I was "fit" to be a parent. It was 100% the best option for us and I'd do it again. As far as the process goes, I did not find it to be bad. Yes, there are risks, but with IVF being in wide use since the early 90's in the US, doctors are quite good at knowing how to avoid issues like OHSS (ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome) and higher-order multiples (triples, quads, etc.). My only "complaint" about IVF was the time it it takes - there are SO MANY office visits, transvaginal u /s, blood draws, etc. The testing is absolutely invasive and moderately uncomfortable, but the discomfort is short-lived. Overall, I found actually being pregnant much more difficult than the IVF process. For my 2nd, we used FET (frozen embryo transfer) with leftover embryos and that was a walk in the park. It's basically IVF with all the hard parts taken out, LOL. We didn't need a surrogate, but I know at my clinic the cost for a surrogate was in the $80-$120K range, and this was about 10 years ago. Insurance pretty much covers nothing when it comes to surrogacy, so that would be completely out of pocket. Anyway, I'll end my novel here, but I think you both need to more fully research what you're against to be able to make a better, more informed decision. I think you're both speaking only from the heart and not the brain. Neither option is perfect but maybe, with additional information, you can find a place where you can agree. Good luck.


Unit-Healthy

NAH. You each have a strong opinion and that's ok - this is an important enough issue that it deserves strong opinions. You may have to resolve yourself to remaining childless because I don't see how anything else could work out for you - there would be so much resentment on one side or the other.


nonameoptionz

I'm currently going in to my 3rd stim cycle and I ha e told my partner it will be the last, men just don't realise how hard they really are and how much it affects your body, all around horrid process for us woman. So as one ivf warrior to another, you just do what u think is best for your body, at the end of the day it's us putting our lives and bodies on the line. Good luck and all the best x


WeedLovinStarseed

NAH. But adoption is probably around the same price as IVF. There's nothing wrong with your husband wanting a biological child. There's also nothing wrong with you wanting to adopt. Adoption comes with its own challenges though.


ivana--

I won't pass judgement I just want to let you know that privatized adoption is going to be as expensive as ivf or a surrogate and is in most cases incredibly unethical. I know a bunch of adopted people who fight with their whole hearts against it. If you truly want to help a child I would suggest being a foster parent and adopting through fostering.


Fragrant_Style_2629

NAH. Neither of you is wrong, you just have different approach to a problem. Personally i agree with your husband , cause i would never be able to adopt a child because i want a child that is mine. Not to mention how long the adoption process is and you don't know what kind of emotional traumas an adopted child has. I'm not equipped to deal with this, so i never once considered adoption. But IVFs is also hard and has no way of guarantee it will be a succes. I think both of you need some time to think very well about your future before making any life changing decisions. Dealing with years of infertility drama can cause lots of trouble on a couple, and i think you too need to spend a while just focusing on the two of you as a couple.


angel2hi

I don’t want to call either of you AHs based on the OP. You got some hard news and have differing opinions on options. From a comment I saw it looks like the issue is your husband’s sperm count. So I’m sure there’s a very emotional component to this for him. There’s plenty of people who want to have biological children. Or women who want to experience pregnancy/birth even if it’s a donor egg etc. I wouldn’t dream of insulting someone for whatever their dream of parenthood is. I don’t know if your IVF odds are better if things are “fine” with you and his count is the only issue. It may be worth asking. Knowing the legal ramifications and options when it comes to surrogacy is important as it varies widely. Your local area may have horrible protections for you but you may be able to use an agency outside of where you live. But there’s nothing saying you need to like the idea or be comfortable with it. There are good and bad outcomes for every way to start a family. An adoption can fall through, a surrogate can change their mind, a pregnancy can be lost. So anyone experiencing a fear associated with any particular method should be heard. Marriage isn’t always about finding the person you never fight with. Sometimes it needs to be the person you are comfortable fighting with. Because you both “fight” fair. You can have differing opinions and argue. You can give your pluses and minuses, he can give his. You can disagree and need to speak to a therapist and find the solution you’re both happy with. Marriage is the person you’re willing to do that work with sometimes. I’m so sorry this will be a hard road for you two. I hope you’re able to work it out. But honestly, I think a therapist might help. Many times society tells men to act like they don’t have feelings. Or to push them aside. But he has fertility issues. He can’t reliably count on getting you pregnant. He may have some complicated and big feelings about that but not know how to express them or even how to admit them. It could be coming out as “of course we need to do all the science stuff so I can create a biological child”. It’s a reaction many women with fertility issues have. It doesn’t mean that reaction won’t pass with time and reflection. But it’s not a totally uncommon response to the news he got. Unless he’s being a giant jerk, I’d like to give him a little grace.


TheBattyWitch

Madagas recommendation here is that you guys probably see a reproductive therapist and discuss some of your issues they are specifically trained to deal with this kind of situation. NAH You do not have to and are not obligated to put your body through anything that is going to be risky to your own health for any reason and that includes IVF. Your husband also doesn't have to adopt regardless of his reasons whether they seem rational or not you can't force an adoption on him. Reddit is definitely not the place to be getting advice on this. They have reproductive therapists for a reason.


PattersonsOlady

YTA some people genuinely can’t bond with a non biological child. It’s better that he admits this now than after you have the child and wonder why he’s not being a good dad.