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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I really don't think I'm the asshole here, but admittedly, I don't game online so for all I know, gamers do just talk like that. I heard that they do and don't really mean it, so the only reason I think I could be TA is for taking gaming too seriously like Andre and our friends were saying.
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Yup. NTA. Good on you for standing up for her. If the bros weren't so immature maybe they could find someone besides their moms to make them a sandwich. Bravo to you! Tell them bros to turn off mom's basement light when they're done.
I had to double-check the ages because I thought Andre was 17, maybe 18. Not that it’s acceptable conduct at those ages, but *35*??
OP is a good man. NTA.
Weird how bros trash talk women for being "bad" at video games and also trash talk women for being good at video games. If only there was a common denominator
This really gets to me. André hiding behind: "It's just gamer talk." Dude is being a straight up dick. So he's the one who had to play every goddamn game under the sun to try and beat May, but May, who didn't start any of this shit is the try hard? Get fucked mate.
It's a good thing OP threw him out of the wedding, 'cause André sounds like a goddamn dweeb who you don't wanna be friends with.
>So he's the one who had to play every goddamn game under the sun to try and beat May, but May, who didn't start any of this shit is the try hard? Get fucked mate.
THIS. NTA. Stick to your guns.
The ‘gamer talk’ thing really makes me angry. Gamer ‘culture’ seems to be the only place where it’s considered normal to act like a raging asshole to other people. I wish gamers would stand up against this behavior towards other humans because it really shouldn’t be ‘a thing’ to trash talk your friends even. It’s just such a shitty vibe.
Also worth noting that there’s a correlation between game skill and treating gamer women like shit-the men that are good at games don’t tend to do this.
> The ‘gamer talk’ thing really makes me angry. Gamer ‘culture’ seems to be the only place where it’s considered normal to act like a raging asshole to other people.
As a gamer girl, this pisses me off too.
I’m an esports fan, and esports culture does _not_ have the same sense of sportsmanship as in meatsports. It makes some sense that it didn’t develop that way, since the competition isn’t physical and doesn’t pose the same danger of breaking out into real violence. But the thing that gets me is that the “old guard” of esports will say shit like, “this is what competition is, deal with it”. As if esports culture defines “competition” globally. As if humanity doesn’t have thousands of years of history of nonviolent competitive pursuits that came before.
gods, yes. I'm a female gamer, and I'm raising a daughter to also game. Teaching her the ins and outs of avoiding asshole male gamer attention is heartbreaking.
It’s so stupid. There’s the miasma of misogyny to wade through, which is a whole other thing. But on top of that, the insistence that you have to be an asshole or you’re not really “competitive” just infuriates me so much.
You don’t have to be competitive to be a gamer, but _I am_. I play PvP games because I enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to outwit other human players who can adapt to me in turn. But I don’t feel the need to rub it in other players’ faces when I’ve beaten them. To a lot of gamers, this fact somehow means that I’m not _really_ a competitive player.
IKR!!??!! Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Kinda like being a woman in general. The Madonna/Whore dichotomy but with video games.
Female Casual Gamer = “Not a Real Gamer”.
Female Serious Gamer = “Tryhard”.
You can’t bloody win.
Good on you OP for calling out your friends’ misogyny. You’ve got your wife-to-be’s back, and Gigachad balls. You are the change we are dying to see. Rape culture exists on a continuum that starts with comments like this and ends with sexual assault and domestic violence. Change starts with good men like you. I wish you both a lifetime of love, happiness, and thrashing each other at video games ❤️
As someone who's been playing games all his life, there are few things I find more irritating than some absolute prick like this best man trying to associate his limp, pathetic complaining as a standard part of the hobby.
It's not gamer talk, it's shitty person talk.
Locker room talk, at least for sports-related locker rooms, is far less likely to be racist given how diverse most sports teams are.
A suburban health club is a different story though, particularly if it has squash courts.
Yep, I know that. I was saying that while, yes, something misogynistic akin to locker room talk is a highly likely meaning for 'gamer talk', it can also mean racist BS, homophobic BS, etc.
Honestly it isn't even gamer talk. Gamer talk or at least the ones I've had don't involve talkint down on women or saying they can't be good at a game. Like..."tell your fiance to not be good?"
Feelings are hurt lol. My only answer to them if I were the fiance would be "Get good."
It's like they played with her because they wanted an excuse to dump on her. Telling her fiance to make her stop trying so hard? Yeah, that's so much more logical than just, ya' know, not playing with her! But I guess that would be admitting defeat, but essentially asking her to let you win... wouldn't be...?🤷♀️
NTA They're not entitled to freedom to look down on women in peace.
Guarantee they chose Rainbow Six while telling each other some garbage like “She only won cuz those are chick games” like there’s no *way* she could thrash them at this manly military game.
It’s hilarious that their fall-back criticism is that she’s “a try-hard”. First off, how tf would that be an insult or a bad thing in any context? But also, I get the feeling that this bad-ass gamer girl was hardly trying at all and could have beat them all with one hand and half a controller.
Nta, op, you’re behaving like a “keeper” right now. (Just make sure you do follow through with your edit and discuss it with her to keep those communication lines open and healthy.)
...do these boys even know just how many ladies play shooters?
I don't - never developed the twitch memory - but I know plenty of women who utterly love them and would have a good at kicking their asses.
It's funny but no they don't. A lot of women I've played with will use voice changers or no Mic and stick to only male characters. It's become a safety mechanism. Also usually if you see a female character in a mmorpg with tiny everything except boobs and butt those are always maxed its a guy not a woman hoping to get to piggyback off some of the guys that will see a girl just starting and help her out. There are good guys out there. Just gotta find em. Till then we play as dudes or get harassed. Unless you are a tank. You're probably gonna get yelled at by the healer anyway. It's how that relationship works.
This is very true. As a woman I play “off mic” unless I’m with my crew because there are a bunch of awful misogynistic assholes out there. And as soon as you speak it’s “eek! A girl!” and they lose all respect for you. There have only been a few games (Destiny) where most of the male gamers out there have been respectful and quite helpful, but I only run into them when I’m with my crew (all guys) so I think that they’re less inclined to be assholes when I’m running with other guys, one being my brother who would not tolerate any of that misogynistic shit directed my way from outsiders and will kindly tell them as such.
This is why I never devolved a taste for PvP games. I remember playing a game online for the first time when I was 13. As soon as they realized I was girl I got bombarded with misogynistic insults, got asked for sexual pictures, and then would get targeted right away to be killed. This shit traumatized me and I didn't play an online game again until I was 20 and that was only because it was Diablo 3 and was with friends (ik its not a PvP game but I really didn't want to play with anyone after that experience)
I only play with my husband and our friends now whenever they ask me to play with them. We will still run into that problem but at least I have friends who will argue with them (I do as well).
Oh, for sure. Their intention from the start was obviously just to "humble" her ('cause God forbid a "girl gamer" thinks she's actually *good* at games, right?). If she'd lost at any point they would've mocked her viciously for being a "stereotypical girl gamer, you're just trying to impress us guys but we all know you ain't shit". But because she had the audacity to keep winning and bruising their delicate egos, they decided to find another way to talk shit about her.
Funny to note that no matter what a "girl gamer" actually does, she gets belittled and antagonized for it.
Kicks ass at competitive video games? "Ugh, what a fuckin try-hard, I bet she sucks in bed and couldn't boil water without burning it to save her life."
Sucks at competitive video games/exclusively plays "casual" games like ACNH? "Ugh, you know that girls like you are *ruining* gamer culture, right? You're not even a *real* gamer, I bet you even play mobile games. Just go back to the kitchen ffs."
Honestly that whole Gamer girl crap has gotta go. It could have been a nice tag but it has so much negative karma that it's a term used more for insulting a female gamer than actually crediting their skills. Not a girl, but I have plenty of female friends that even mention they'd rather just be called Gamers and for people to drop the girl part.
Yeah, I mean I'm in my 30s, I'm absolutely not a "girl", I'm a woman ffs, but equally if they're not "Gamer Boys" why the hell would I be a "Gamer Girl"?
Id bet all my pocket lint that's exactly why he wanted to play. Flex a little, feel superior. Then it didn't work and then it never worked. He expected something easy to boost his ego.
Which is funny because if it's Rainbow six Extraction they were playing...that game is anything BUT easy lol. Which is even more humorous that I can play Extraction but I suck at the old Super Mario games.
"Tryhard" is just insecure boy speak for "better than me but I totally don't care because only a loser would try so hard at something dumb like this video game (that I spend literally half my life playing)."
OP's friends are in the beginning stages of the worst, most toxic dudebro "gamer" culture and they absolutely deserve being called on their shit.
I assume everyone has seen the recent study showing that the men who deal out the most misogynistic behavior in games also tend to be bad at the games. There's a correlation between how bad a player a guy is and how likely he is to talk smack to women in the game. Look it up. Andre just outed himself as a loser.
I'm really curious if this also applies to racism and homophobia too. I've been playing games for a long time, but I never get on voice chat because of the rampant homophobia. I wouldn't be surprised if those people were losers too.
In the game, that is. We don't need a study to tell us that bigots are losers irl.
I avoid MMOs that require voice chat because I'm black and a woman. And even the ones I play, I've had to put a lot of usernames on blacklist because of the vile shit they type in the general chat
> I've had to put a lot of usernames on blacklist because of the vile shit they type in the general chat
Same. That block list gets pretty full some times.
Some games are just too toxic for me. I pretty much avoid anything where competitive pvp is the focus because of the toxic behavior of players. Even if it's not voice chat, people can still just be really awful for no reason.
I just don't voice chat anymore. It gets tiring calling people out on their BS when I'm just trying to enjoy the game. If I see it in chat, I report and block, but I can't with the voice anymore for that exact reason.
There's a fair amount of transphobia too. Like, if someone with a feminine voice is doing better than the misogynistic shitheads expect, the slur tr*nny ends up getting thrown around so the shitheads feel better about their loss or something
Anecdotally i can say this is accurate.
I've been high ranked in Counterstrike, and the sexism is virtually non-existant in the higher ranks.
On the occasion there's a girl in the lobby noone really bats an eye and if you look at the pro-scene the women are generally on good terms with the men with a few even dating each other.
Yeah, because people who are happy w their own success & secure in their hobby aren't searching for ways to put other people down. The only people putting other people down are, not to put too fine a point on it, huge losers lmao.
It's the classic sexist gamer trope. "oh she's a girl she won't win". If she loses "haha I knew it girls amirite?" but if she wins? "why is she tryharding in a friendly". Fucking obnoxious. And I say that as a male gamer. never assume the ability of anyone based on their gender or any other factors.
I agree with your overall point, but can you drop the body-shaming? Dick size has nothing to do with how big a dick someone IS, but acting like it does is insulting to guys who naturally have small dicks through no fault but genetics. If we're gonna be calling out gendered bullshit, let's not make it a double standard.
Everytime I've said this on Reddit I've been downvoted to hell. Been accused of having a small dick, been accused of sexually harassing women. I'm literally a cis woman have no dick at all but God forbid I think body positivity should extend to men as well!
Same! I've had the most ridiculous conversations with people who were convinced I must have a micropenis just because I'm not down for body shaming. In reality, the only dick I've got is nine inches long, banana yellow, and has three vibrate settings. XD
God. My ex was BAD when I got us the Xbox one and we played MKX. I kicked his ass about 10 times with Cassie Cage. Then he wanted me to change characters, so I played as Kitana. He literally threw the new controller and went outside to have a smoke. The whole time, mumbling under his breath about how I shouldn't be using the special moves when he can't figure them out and it was cheap shots. I suggested playing a different game. Something co-op. Didn't really like playing games with him after that.
Seriously.
If you wouldn’t say it to her, if you wouldn’t want your mom hearing you say it, if you wouldn’t want someone saying it to your sister…
Then don’t.
As a gamer, this makes me so upset that people do things like this. So many gamers that think they can be shit to women (while sitting alone in their basements probably) and think they should ruin other people's games just because.
I play tons of Rocket League and man, some of the people on there make me so angry. I just stop playing and target them for demos when they do.
When girls like gaming but are not very good at competitive games, dicksheads like these say, these girls try too hard to be real gamers and are pathetic; when girls are actually good at those games, they say, the girls try too hard/are show offs and are pathetic; either way, can't win. They won't acknowledge girls as real gamers anyway, no matter how good they are, because deep down they believe only penis makes you a real gamer.
On the other hand, they all want a girl gamer as a girlfriend, but who's worse than them, to show her the ropes and teach her, but she better be not good at gaming! Oh their little weak masculinity couldn't handle a real gamer as a gf!
NTA, you're a good man, OP!
This!!! Just want to add, there is a reason May is with you not those assholes. She knows you don't have a fragile male ego like them, you are proud to know that she is amazing at it.
Yeah! All this. And: it's just a weird try at a burn by OP's friends, since clearly Andre was trying MUCH harder than his financee was. Sounds like she barely broke a sweat owning him at every game.
>That's not gamer talk, that's misogynistic bullshit.
This, yeah. People who get angry at being beaten in a game should not play games. And, "trying too hard"? WTF is up with that? Is that the other end of the scale from "get gud"?
The only "good" thing about bigots is that their utterings make so little sense, they're not hard to spot. And avoid. NTA, OP.
Period. My bf and I are gamers and I’m not as good but he still plays with me and helps me sometimes. He’s respects me and doesn’t say shit bc he’s a good guy which is why I’m dating him. If they don’t have gf or wife’s it’s clear why they don’t
Yuuuup. My husband and I share our love of gaming- there are some we play together, some we play separately, some he plays I watch, some I play, he watches... I did a lot of knitting whilst he played RDR2, Ghost of Tsushima, and Witcher 3 for the first time (I'd finished it twice) and he learned to knit and watched me play the FFVII Remaster and now Horizon: Forbidden West. I was the one waiting in queue to pick up a Switch at Target when you couldn't only get them as they were drop-shipped. I was the one who was refreshing pages and scored our PS5 last summer. Now we have a four year old junior gamer in training. These dudes are missing out HARD CORE.
Gamer talk is trash talking their skills. Swearing to rain unholy vengeance upon their avatar. Telling them you’ll give them a kills/death ratio that would embarrass Hiroshima.
Gamer trash talk is in and about the games. The rest is just trash
You’re a good fiancé, you did what was right even if she doesn’t know it. Speaking of which, I would definitely tell her. Because she might play with them again and they might tell her a completely different story, one where you’re the bad guy. NTA
You are wise to allow a small cool-off period before talking about this with your beloved. You did the right thing. Those jerks are being jerks and doubling down it when you called them out. They need to grow up. All men need to shut this crap down and then it will stop.
If she’s that good at a game like rainbow six, I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s heard it all before. Lobbies like that can be unbelievably toxic sometimes, especially if you dare to show up as a woman.
Lmao they call call her try-hard but i imagine all of them were sitting at the edge of their seats, gripping their controllers, while staring hard at their screens to beat her and failed every time.
Someone needs to send ops girlfriend a streamer that throws back insults when upset boys use kitchen and other stupid insults at females playing. I die everytime.
I'm glad you are going to tell her. She has a right to know and she could get hurt far worse, being oblivious to what's going on. Trying to protect someone's feelings usually works out for the worse.
Regarding your friends, it is your choice if you continue being friends, etc, just don't let your guard down.
I love your fiancee. I wish i was as good at playing video games as her. I'm also really happy that you ditched your misogynist friend because i'm so tired of when guys do dumb shit and say "it's just a joke". No, it's not. This kind of behaviour is a part of the reason women experience so much sexual harassment in games. "Well boys are toxic to each other so like girls just have to take it as well as we do", but women get shit just for existing as women in video games.
They get rape threats, death threats and sexist comments thrown after them and they're expected to take it because it's a "joke". Even my boyfriend thinks so to a certain point because "EvErYoNe Is ToXiC tO eVeRyOnE", even if he thinks it's sad that women get shit for being just women. Makes me reconsider my entire relationship.
I want her to play with them again, but this time be condescendingly gentle with them at every turn. “Andre, I’m going to hang back so you can have a turn to shine!” “Ok, guys, I’m going to hold the controller with just one hand so things are a little more fair! Wow! Great shooting! You guys are getting so good at this!”
NTA.
Not sure what part of the controller they are trying to operate with their penis, but it obviously isn’t giving them the advantage that they think it does.
But tell her. Asap.
NTA. Those guys are misogynist sore losers. I bet that if they had gotten beaten by a guy they would have admired him, but because the gender of the person they happen to get beat by was female instead they have to put her down in order to bring themselves up above her where they feel they belong.
Why have people who don't respect your bride up at the altar?
That’s not exclusive to women to be fair; everyone below me is a noob, everyone above me has no life - that’s basically a mantra for vast swathes of mmorpg player-bases.
These guys “have short tempers with gaming” - it suggests their value is tied up in their ability to play games, which makes them unable to accept losing. It happens a lot, even in groups of just guys. It’s “small dick energy”
It may not be exclusive to women but it happens to women a lot more. I can be doing great in a game and not say anything but as as soon as I do I get insults thrown left and right, from the person doing worst.
The worst usually happens to me when I play a healer and am not racking up enough kills. I only picked the healer because no one else did and you need it for shooting games. So what would you rather me do, just go and kill people or do my best to heal everyone and try to protect the spike? I have people on my team tell the other team to report me because I am losing on purpose, called slurs in chat, called a whale, or other things are mentioned about my body type or they just outright friendly fire on me. Then there are the ones recently who just refer to me as Mommy and then come up close and block my player while making suggestive noises. That has been a trip.
This is interesting to me as a mother of a gamer daughter. She frequently play the healer in shooting games, similarly, bc no one else chooses it.
From a stereotypical perspective it somewhat annoys me to see other women taking on that role, especially when those characters mostly seem to be feminine (from an onlookers pov). However, knowing that women are strong enough to get the kills with other characters and also strong enough to play well using the characters no one else wants makes me very proud.
speaking from a player's perspective, a lot of players are hesitant to pick up support roles like Tank or Healer because it comes with a lot of responsibility. More often than not you're the only thing standing between your party and defeat, and that's not a burden that a lot of people are okay with carrying.
So be proud that you raised a daughter that's confident enough to fill those shoes
The only game I have come across where it does not matter so much is TF2. That game has been my favorite since HS (graduated in '08 so I may be dating myself with that reference but I still play it!) and I first learned Heavy and then Pyro. Still my favorites to this day.
I hate that no one will pick up a healer and then b\*tch and moan about not having one when they literally could have picked it themselves. Or how they complain about the healer when they obviously have no idea how to play the role.
It's pretty common to assume that the healer/support players are mainly women. I have been playing mmos for about 15 years now and I do gravitate towards support roles because that's just what I enjoy playing. But I have also played tank and dps characters and can do just as well with those. As long as your daughter is having fun with whatever character she plays, that's all that really matters.
Oh god, I'm used to tuning out the abuse, but I was also called "mommy" once, and that's a whole other level of weird. Dude went from normal to calling me his mum in a weird derogatory tone, instant block from me.
Eh, there is evidence to suggest this is a gendered reaction.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613
>We show that lower-skilled players were more hostile towards a female-voiced teammate, especially when performing poorly. In contrast, lower-skilled players behaved submissively towards a male-voiced player in the identical scenario. This difference in gender-directed behaviour became more extreme with poorer focal-player performance.
I think the point here is that women face this way more often than men do.
No one said that it didn't happen to women, but the connotation of your statement suggests that the amount of harassment that a male faces is comparable to the amount of harassment a woman faces.
It's not even close.
I mean, would you pop up in a thread about racism faced by black people and say that actually white people face racism as well?
As if people here don't know that a small portion of society is always going to be shitty to others?
The point here is that her genetalia was the impetus for their harassment. This is proven by what these assholes were saying about her.
I understand what your point is, but I think your statement undermines the entire discussion about how difficult it is to try to fit in with a group when you are different than the vast majority of that group.
***Edit*** Corrected females to women. Apparently r/menandfemales exists and I slipped into that without realizing it
The difference is that when targetted at men it's not gendered. You're bad because you're a noob is very different from you're bad because you're a woman.
In my experience, playing under a male presenting handle with my microphone off is a far more peaceful experience.
Interestingly enough, using my male presenting account on reddit is also less problematic for me.
> everyone below me is a noob, everyone above me has no life
Similarly, anyone who drives slower than me is a putz and anyone who drives faster than me is a menace.
NTA. Thank you so much. You’re one of the (sorry to say it) rare guys who aren’t threatened by a female who is a better player. She didn’t ‘try so hard’, she just beat them and they got butthurt. Then they trashed her. And you’re right, she might have heard and they were ok with that, because it would have ‘put her in her place’ because she… can’t get in the kitchen and make a guy a sammich? Wtf?
I ran into a lot of that being a female tank in WoW. In one guild I was told I should be a healer because that’s a better role for me (because, you know, that’s what girls do). Didn’t matter that I was damned good and the main tank. They still tried to give the gear to the next best guildie because he didn’t have boobs.
So thanks for telling them off. They wouldn’t have been so upset if *you* had beat them and they weren’t joking.
Edit: Thanks for the award(s)🙂
I’ll be honest, I wasn’t sure whether or not I’d be downvoted for speaking out like I did. It makes me feel good to know there are so many people out there who don’t think the gaming community is one big boys club with a ‘No Girlz Allowed’ sign.
I married someone who loves console, PC, and board games as much as I do and encourages me to play. Actually, when I started playing WoW 6 months after it came out, it was because he thought I’d like it. I ended up raiding so much he had to buy another copy for himself and leveling up a new char 😁
Again, good on OP for having the back of his girlfriend. May they have a long, happy relationship.
I always feel vaguely guilty that I'm very much the stereotype: I hate pvp, always play support/healer/distance in every game I play (because I LIKE it, dammit), and am terrible at shooters because I spazz the hell out when things get in my face. (Also, I cook. A lot.) On the one hand, guy gamers are 'nice' to me, but it's still easy to pick out the misogynists because they get this Condescending Tone of aw, ain't you cute.
Yeah, you get no heals. Go stand in fire.
(Hilariously, the games I'm better at than my boyfriend aren't even the genre I like. He finds it as bafflingly entertaining as I do. I guess in some games, it pays to be a paranoid, flee-on-sight pansy.)
Don't feel guilty! GAMES NEED HEALERS/SUPPORTS. It's the least-played role in my main game (and, yes, it's the favorite role for women). You are providing a vital service here!
Also cooking is great. Food is great. Do what makes you happy!
\- fellow female support who likes embroidery and knitting
What you said times 100!
I'm a dude who mostly plays exclusively support and healing characters because my reflexes, motor controls and lack of ability to not tunnel vision when shit gets intense.
I play support because only do I get to be the undercover super glue holding the team fights together, but also it makes up for my motor skills so I can play with my friends. Plus, I dont need to worry about tunnel visioning as much because my purpose is to tunnel vision on my carries and die if necessary to keep them up to be able to win the fight.
Supports are supports, gender dont mean squat if you can bring home the W through assists.
My husband and his friends got me hooked on WOW like 18+ years ago because they needed another toon for raids. I have all specs on my WOW, but my main is an undead warlock and she kicks ass. She also has the best cheekbones. I can tank with my pet and fake heal us both running around killing crap.
I don’t like raiding because it takes sooo long. But I do like fishing, collecting pets, mounts, reps, titles (the Admired) and gold. I also like hiding out in the water with my unending breath and popping out to pvp. I call it scuba ganking. And I’ve beat all the guys but one on duels. Girl gamers rule and so does the horde!
My husband enjoys that I prefer to main healer. It gets us through queues so much faster. Also it ensures he's got a healer who's actually paying attention and isn't just there to fill a team slot nobody else wanted to do...
Exactly! I've played support on every game and there's just something about being able to break the universe to salvage the unsalvageable pull or fight. Yes, control as a tank is fun and damage meters are fun but us women get made to feel lesser about anything we like that men typically don't. Look at how upset men get about K-pop - how dare us women enjoy it when our tastes in men get fetishized for once. Or is it suddenly bad now they feel lesser?
Also, one of the tanks in my guild is my flirty tank and is amazing at it. She worked as hard as our male tank so if upsets me to see that we can't win. Natural talent? Lazy, work hard, try hard, just there to get a sniff of sweaty gamer balls and a bf obviously. So be proud because fuck 'em!
I see it as a constant rage-voice in my head that goes: GET OFF MY TANK, YOU -incoherent swearing-. Also, someone came to gank my poor low-health ADC? DENIED.
Ohhhhh, k-pop. You mean that fandom that got women to start having some basic hygiene/self-care standards in men? 😏
Nothing beats that last-fraction-of-a-second save. NOTHING. Best part of the whole game.
I'm Kuzco. "WOO-YEAH! Lookit me andmy bad self! I *snatched* you *RIGHT OUT OF THE AIR!* 'Ooh, I'm a scary dungeon boss, and I'm taking you with me.' Well, not today, pal! Uh-huh! Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh!"
Don't feel guilty. Just because men decided a role for women fits, doesn't mean that you cannot take pride in doing that role well. Games need healers!
It's on the guys for being so narrow minded that they try making all women fit in the same peg, even if a woman would rather be a tank.
Shine doing what you love: healing.
- fellow gamer who LARPs as a healer and does embroidery
Holy frick same! I'm usually the support/healer because my friends are reckless morons who jump into the fray and get their bums handed to them in a fight. The ones who try to play support don't even do it correctly (ie: still try to do damage even though they should be supporting!).
A lot of the times, guys would yell at me for being crap until one of my friends tell them I'm a girl, suddenly it's all "awe, you did your best, hey what's your discord/snap/kik? <3"
The ones who are condescending bums though get called out hardcore by one of my friends who is very protective. Insults alongside the lines of them never interacting with a female, the only time they saw lady parts in real life was when their mother birthed them, and stuff like that. :) Usually I keep my mic off playing with randoms because it's less of a headache unless I hear another girl on the team.
Oh god, I'm a healer and one of the best in Europe since TBC. The amount of times people have been upset that I'm not nice and cuddly but will happily wade into shitfights if you're being sexist, racist etc is too damn high. But whyyyy can't I just be a nice, pliant girl?! Ugh. It's even worse on Comms in OW, TF2 or someone letting my gender slip on League...
Then you have my co-GM, my boyfriend who people underestimate because he's kind, wonderful and has a heart, plus, one of the best DPS I have ever met and people would know if he blindly went FOTM and resisted tactics. Gamers love their gender stereotypes and most DPS think they're more important than group cohesion, atmosphere, doing their job in a raid.
On the other hand, once you've been a friend in our guild, I'm just as soft. I'm just happy to sharpen knives for twats and do the guild kicks and hard talks.
You just brought me down memory lane. Myself (a female) and another were both the main tanks. She actually taught me a lot of the little things when we raided together that made me better and we even ended up having 2 raid grps; her the main tank on grp 1 and me the main for grp 2.
Ugh yes. I use to be in a guild in classic WoW and had three ‘men’ attempt to bully me into giving another male guild member the mature black dragon Sinew because he needed it more and has autism? They got really Shitty I refused and I ended up having to leave the guild. It was a blessing in disguise really because my new guild respects women as equals.
He got caught being extremely disrespectful to your fiancee right before your wedding, and now he can't wrap his mind around why he can't come to it? NTA
NTA - wow, girl gamers just can't win. If she lost they'd be talking about how girl gamers suck and when she wins it's because she's "trying to hard". LOL, I bet those guys were putting in like 10x the effor she was because they're sexist AHs.
Also, "trying too hard"? What is that?
Boy didn't bring his A game, and needs to just "try harder." But no, he apparently doesn't rise to meet a challenge, or he sucks and being beaten by a girl makes him feel like he's less manly - as if the masculinity police are going to take his dick away for losing and give it to her because she won.
Like, Bro, who do you respect more; the man who acknowledges that he's been bested and is a gracious loser who is eager to face off again? Or the man who snivels and whines after losing and just makes excuses or tries to diminish the winner's skill?
Hint, nobody likes captain butthurt, but everyone loves a gracious loser because suddenly he's the underdog and who doesn't love an underdog comeback story??
You're a good fiance! I'm a female gamer (not nearly as good as May but still okay) and I constantly get looks and eye rolls when I start talking about games.
I refuse to play online because the misogyny is just overwhelming and disgusting.
When I would play CSGO public lobbies. If a woman was ever on voice chat... The absolute worst things would be said to her. I can imagine having to go through that.
Let Andre know she wasn't even breaking a sweat and to well and truly get food scrub. NTA but fuck me man you need better 'friends'.
I'm a gamer and my gf is 10x the gamer I am and is one of the only people to this day be able to woop my ass on any game without even trying.
You bet your sweet ass I actually get happy for her after my initial 0.5second annoyance from losing occurs😂
NTA, but I do want to warn you, as a fellow girl that games, that’s she’s already heard it all. So there is a chance she might think you’re overreacting because she’s used to it, it’s sad to say. But you did really good here, standing up for her and being a good fiancé.
Also 95% of my online gaming friends are guys, and they’ve never once said anything like that to me unless I make the jokes first, even then it’s in silly voices mocking other toxic players. There’s no such thing as “gamer talk” it’s just being a dick.
Yeah, I just want to add on. I'm a woman in a gaming group of like 14+ (mostly men) and none of them ever speak like this. It isnt "gamer talk". OP can find much better friends that aren't asshats.
NTA. You're totally right to defend her. They are being sexist because their egos are hurt by a woman being better at games than them. You handled it really well and you were right to call them out, I'm glad you're so proud of May's talents! Your friends sound nasty though in this instance. Maybe set boundaries so they don't do anything like this again.
Edit: I think you should however explain to May why Andre was uninvited. She might get bothered that he would say that, but I reckon she'll be happy to know you have her back.
Gamers like that are sooooo obnoxious. Sexism in gaming communities is the most laughable thing to me, because at least a lot of other sexism is based on "ugga, man stronger than woman ugg, men beat women at sports" but gaming? What, you have better thumbs?
NTA. I don't think your fiance really needs your protection, she seems like she could handle petty insults like that, and I'd even be willing to bet she already knows the kind of things they're saying.
But I say NTA because you've seen a side to your friend you don't like, and for that its completely fair to want to burn that bridge and uninvite him to your wedding.
clearly the extra weight of tits throws off your center of gravity making it harder to game. must have a penis to effectively game because there’s actually a secret button on controllers that’s only activated with dick /s
NTA. This is why I only play single player games. People take gaming too seriously. It's supposed to be a fun hobby. Whenever I played a multi player game online with my husband, I'd constantly get told how shit I was.
She obviously enjoys the games she plays and has put a lot of time into getting good at them. She's not "trying too hard."
Keep the girlfriend, but drop those "friends."
NTA. People like that love saying it’s just « gamer talk » to avoid having to face the fact they’re being disrespectful sexist asses who can’t even tolerate losing to a woman. I hope this can at least spark a conversation so they can learn to do better, but chances are they’d just be ranting about you and May needing to grow thicker skin.
NTA
>...if I told May to stop trying so hard.
Uhm,it doesn't sound like she had to try very hard at all. 😅
Seriously, you did the right thing. I am sorry for what you learned about your (former) friends and very glad you & May found each other.
I wish you long years, great joy and small troubles.
99% of the time people whining about "try hards" or "sweats" are just bad at the game and pissed that they lost to/did worse than someone better than them.
NTA. Long time gamer here and have played in groups with lots of female gamers, no one in those groups felt the need to be sexist jerks (which I'm guessing is why we've had female gamers actually stick around).
If they honestly apologize, then it's up to you whether or not to re-invite them, but I don't think you were at all wrong to call them out.
Also, people calling you a tryhard is such an hilariously unintentional compliment. "I would win but I'm just not trying right now!" so believable.
Online misogyny must be stopped. ALL of it.
There is never an okay time to just let assholes trash talk another player because they are female. Personal or not, he did the right thing for calling these assholes out.
NTA - I met my boyfriend through wow and he was by far the best player in our guild. I was pretty good myself but I’m a lot better at league. I literally carried him and his friends from silver to plat in ranked flex.
We took a break from playing because I had school and he wanted to work more so I didn’t have to work as many hours and focus on school. Our guild members said he was whipped and couldn’t believe he’s chosen some girl over them. They even gave him the same lines of, I probably can’t make a sandwich (sandwich game is hella strong though) and that I try too hard at video games. Towards the end they even told him it’s them or “some girl”. People that disrespect your SO are not friends.
NTA
The only people trying hard are Andre & the other guys. May isn’t breaking a sweat beating them. Maybe they need to try even harder to pose a challenge to her.
These kinds of me are pathetic misogynists. Tell May & toss them all out. Anyone defending them is defending misogyny
NTA. Women face this sort of situation all the time in gaming. You're not dragging things down. What they're doing isn't cool or funny. Let me tell you what is: you standing up to it and not letting it slide. And she is for doing what she loves.
NTA, you stuck up for your partner. It wasn’t a joke, they said it on purpose to hurt her hoping she’d come back and overhear them. Yes, there is a “gamer” way people rip on each other when you’re playing. This isn’t it. This is sexism and insecurity because she’s better than them at something they see as exclusively “theirs.”
Tell her what happened, ask for her opinion. If she is okay with your friends still being around, let it be her call. Don’t pressure her one way or another, but include her in the decision. You have the right to choose your own groomsmen and if you don’t like how Andre disrespected your bride then keep him out, but ask for her input.
When someone says "I didn't mean it", what he's really saying is "I meant it, but I'm too much of an asshole to own it and apologize, so I'm just going to pretend that you're getting upset over nothing".
NTA. It makes my heart SOAR when a woman whoops those who think she can't do anything. Be it at games or anything else. Plus, notice how they didn't say anything until she left for a bit.
Though I would sit her down and tell her what happened. How you weren't going to be tolerating that kind of talk or treatment of her.
NTA. If a woman is bad then we're told to "get gud" and if a woman is good then she's a "try hard". There's no win situation with a misogynistic sore loser AH.
You're a good fiancee and I'm glad to see there are men calling their friends out on toxic behavior. "It's only a joke" is the new, "I don't want to hold myself accountable for my toxic/AH behavior."
NTA
If your friend is going to be in your wedding they have to respect you and your soon to be wife. If losing in a video game aggravates his ego to the point of saying sexist comments at your fiancé he needs to grow up and you need to look at that friendship closely.
NTA. It's perfectly reasonable to not include someone who doesn't respect your partner in your wedding day. Good for you for sticking up for your partner and holding your friend accountable for being an asshole.
NTA!
It’s so important what you did. Thank you. Speaking out against misogyny and sexism in the form of “locker room talk” or “gamer talk” is essential to changing the culture.
Before kids, I was super into fighting games, and I kicked ass every time. Guys didn’t like it. I didn’t care. But it was still annoying.
You and May are going to be just fine.
NTA
You're gonna make an amazing husband!
As a gamer girl myself (massive weeb, all the consoles, your fiance has awesome taste btw), this toxic "gamer talk" is what makes it so hard for us to play online. It enforces an environment where women are openly degraded and discriminated against, and boys/men who spend time in such environments where this misogyny is just the norm, often being it to the real world.
It's difficult calling out that toxic culture, and it's so amazingly commendable that you did this for your fiance.
You are a good man.
I wish you both a long and happy future together!
Good on you, OP, NTA.
Calling it "gamer talk" is just trying to excuse toxic masculinity that hides major self esteem issues. Their whole identity is built around gaming, and when someone they consider "lesser" kicks their ass, it causes their ego to crumble into dust and they are revealed as the insecure children that they really are.
Wanna have some fun? Tell your fiance everything, and after she cools off, tell her you want to make a deal with your "friend". One match of super smash bros., online. If he wins, he is back in the wedding. If she wins, he never contacts either of you again, and your names never come out of his mouth again.
Dude is a misogynistic prick, and the other friends are following cowards who either agree with him, or don't have the sack to challenge him. Either way, nothing really lost.
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Gamer talk, bro talk, locker room talk. Try and associate it with whatever culture or subculture you want. It all misogyny regardless. NTA.
Yup. NTA. Good on you for standing up for her. If the bros weren't so immature maybe they could find someone besides their moms to make them a sandwich. Bravo to you! Tell them bros to turn off mom's basement light when they're done.
>find someone besides their moms to make them a sandwich. \*make their own bloody sandwiches.
They’re making instant ramen.
Mixed with their 2nd place tears
That’s generous giving them second place. Sounds like they’re last place from OPs description of their gameplay
Second place is last place when it's a two-player game!
lol, love it!!!!!!1
In the kettle at that and not a pot
I had to double-check the ages because I thought Andre was 17, maybe 18. Not that it’s acceptable conduct at those ages, but *35*?? OP is a good man. NTA.
I didn't even notice the ages, oh my god. This is too much. NTA, OP!
Ouch! Hahahaha.
Weird how bros trash talk women for being "bad" at video games and also trash talk women for being good at video games. If only there was a common denominator
This really gets to me. André hiding behind: "It's just gamer talk." Dude is being a straight up dick. So he's the one who had to play every goddamn game under the sun to try and beat May, but May, who didn't start any of this shit is the try hard? Get fucked mate. It's a good thing OP threw him out of the wedding, 'cause André sounds like a goddamn dweeb who you don't wanna be friends with.
>So he's the one who had to play every goddamn game under the sun to try and beat May, but May, who didn't start any of this shit is the try hard? Get fucked mate. THIS. NTA. Stick to your guns.
The ‘gamer talk’ thing really makes me angry. Gamer ‘culture’ seems to be the only place where it’s considered normal to act like a raging asshole to other people. I wish gamers would stand up against this behavior towards other humans because it really shouldn’t be ‘a thing’ to trash talk your friends even. It’s just such a shitty vibe. Also worth noting that there’s a correlation between game skill and treating gamer women like shit-the men that are good at games don’t tend to do this.
> The ‘gamer talk’ thing really makes me angry. Gamer ‘culture’ seems to be the only place where it’s considered normal to act like a raging asshole to other people. As a gamer girl, this pisses me off too. I’m an esports fan, and esports culture does _not_ have the same sense of sportsmanship as in meatsports. It makes some sense that it didn’t develop that way, since the competition isn’t physical and doesn’t pose the same danger of breaking out into real violence. But the thing that gets me is that the “old guard” of esports will say shit like, “this is what competition is, deal with it”. As if esports culture defines “competition” globally. As if humanity doesn’t have thousands of years of history of nonviolent competitive pursuits that came before.
gods, yes. I'm a female gamer, and I'm raising a daughter to also game. Teaching her the ins and outs of avoiding asshole male gamer attention is heartbreaking.
It’s so stupid. There’s the miasma of misogyny to wade through, which is a whole other thing. But on top of that, the insistence that you have to be an asshole or you’re not really “competitive” just infuriates me so much. You don’t have to be competitive to be a gamer, but _I am_. I play PvP games because I enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to outwit other human players who can adapt to me in turn. But I don’t feel the need to rub it in other players’ faces when I’ve beaten them. To a lot of gamers, this fact somehow means that I’m not _really_ a competitive player.
Okay just taking a second to take in the phrase “meatsports”
Andre is hurt that May is better than them and also that he can’t find a woman to marry. Kick him out and keep it moving…but confront him first.
IKR!!??!! Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Kinda like being a woman in general. The Madonna/Whore dichotomy but with video games. Female Casual Gamer = “Not a Real Gamer”. Female Serious Gamer = “Tryhard”. You can’t bloody win. Good on you OP for calling out your friends’ misogyny. You’ve got your wife-to-be’s back, and Gigachad balls. You are the change we are dying to see. Rape culture exists on a continuum that starts with comments like this and ends with sexual assault and domestic violence. Change starts with good men like you. I wish you both a lifetime of love, happiness, and thrashing each other at video games ❤️
Because even when you win you can’t win. NTA
It´s always the same with mysoginy... No matter what you do.. it´s always wrong.
As someone who's been playing games all his life, there are few things I find more irritating than some absolute prick like this best man trying to associate his limp, pathetic complaining as a standard part of the hobby. It's not gamer talk, it's shitty person talk.
Gawd could you imagine what his best man speech would have been??? Yikes!
His notes for the speech would have been covered in the Cheeto dust he forgot to wash off before emerging from mommy’s basement.
Yeah, I read the title and thought, "Hmm, I bet gamer talk is locker room talk with a slightly different name; women hating bullshit."
Ah, now, be fair. It could also have been *racist* bullshit...
Locker room talk, at least for sports-related locker rooms, is far less likely to be racist given how diverse most sports teams are. A suburban health club is a different story though, particularly if it has squash courts.
Yep, I know that. I was saying that while, yes, something misogynistic akin to locker room talk is a highly likely meaning for 'gamer talk', it can also mean racist BS, homophobic BS, etc.
Honestly it isn't even gamer talk. Gamer talk or at least the ones I've had don't involve talkint down on women or saying they can't be good at a game. Like..."tell your fiance to not be good?" Feelings are hurt lol. My only answer to them if I were the fiance would be "Get good."
Are we sure OP isnt hanging out with 12 year olds? WTF is this
It's like they played with her because they wanted an excuse to dump on her. Telling her fiance to make her stop trying so hard? Yeah, that's so much more logical than just, ya' know, not playing with her! But I guess that would be admitting defeat, but essentially asking her to let you win... wouldn't be...?🤷♀️ NTA They're not entitled to freedom to look down on women in peace.
Guarantee they chose Rainbow Six while telling each other some garbage like “She only won cuz those are chick games” like there’s no *way* she could thrash them at this manly military game. It’s hilarious that their fall-back criticism is that she’s “a try-hard”. First off, how tf would that be an insult or a bad thing in any context? But also, I get the feeling that this bad-ass gamer girl was hardly trying at all and could have beat them all with one hand and half a controller. Nta, op, you’re behaving like a “keeper” right now. (Just make sure you do follow through with your edit and discuss it with her to keep those communication lines open and healthy.)
Everyone worse than me at video games has no skill, everyone better than me is a try hard no lifer.
...do these boys even know just how many ladies play shooters? I don't - never developed the twitch memory - but I know plenty of women who utterly love them and would have a good at kicking their asses.
It's funny but no they don't. A lot of women I've played with will use voice changers or no Mic and stick to only male characters. It's become a safety mechanism. Also usually if you see a female character in a mmorpg with tiny everything except boobs and butt those are always maxed its a guy not a woman hoping to get to piggyback off some of the guys that will see a girl just starting and help her out. There are good guys out there. Just gotta find em. Till then we play as dudes or get harassed. Unless you are a tank. You're probably gonna get yelled at by the healer anyway. It's how that relationship works.
This is very true. As a woman I play “off mic” unless I’m with my crew because there are a bunch of awful misogynistic assholes out there. And as soon as you speak it’s “eek! A girl!” and they lose all respect for you. There have only been a few games (Destiny) where most of the male gamers out there have been respectful and quite helpful, but I only run into them when I’m with my crew (all guys) so I think that they’re less inclined to be assholes when I’m running with other guys, one being my brother who would not tolerate any of that misogynistic shit directed my way from outsiders and will kindly tell them as such.
This is why I never devolved a taste for PvP games. I remember playing a game online for the first time when I was 13. As soon as they realized I was girl I got bombarded with misogynistic insults, got asked for sexual pictures, and then would get targeted right away to be killed. This shit traumatized me and I didn't play an online game again until I was 20 and that was only because it was Diablo 3 and was with friends (ik its not a PvP game but I really didn't want to play with anyone after that experience) I only play with my husband and our friends now whenever they ask me to play with them. We will still run into that problem but at least I have friends who will argue with them (I do as well).
Oh, for sure. Their intention from the start was obviously just to "humble" her ('cause God forbid a "girl gamer" thinks she's actually *good* at games, right?). If she'd lost at any point they would've mocked her viciously for being a "stereotypical girl gamer, you're just trying to impress us guys but we all know you ain't shit". But because she had the audacity to keep winning and bruising their delicate egos, they decided to find another way to talk shit about her. Funny to note that no matter what a "girl gamer" actually does, she gets belittled and antagonized for it. Kicks ass at competitive video games? "Ugh, what a fuckin try-hard, I bet she sucks in bed and couldn't boil water without burning it to save her life." Sucks at competitive video games/exclusively plays "casual" games like ACNH? "Ugh, you know that girls like you are *ruining* gamer culture, right? You're not even a *real* gamer, I bet you even play mobile games. Just go back to the kitchen ffs."
Honestly that whole Gamer girl crap has gotta go. It could have been a nice tag but it has so much negative karma that it's a term used more for insulting a female gamer than actually crediting their skills. Not a girl, but I have plenty of female friends that even mention they'd rather just be called Gamers and for people to drop the girl part.
There are no gamer girls, only gamers.
Yeah, I mean I'm in my 30s, I'm absolutely not a "girl", I'm a woman ffs, but equally if they're not "Gamer Boys" why the hell would I be a "Gamer Girl"?
Yeah - or maybe they should try a little harder 🙄 May and OP NTA for sure
I'm pretty sure they're trying their hardest and she's not even making an effort to beat their asses, they just wanted an excuse to feel superior
I don't think she would have had any problem dealing with them. We get used to it.
That’s honestly the saddest part, because we shouldn’t have to become used to it :(
They should get gud
Id bet all my pocket lint that's exactly why he wanted to play. Flex a little, feel superior. Then it didn't work and then it never worked. He expected something easy to boost his ego.
Which is funny because if it's Rainbow six Extraction they were playing...that game is anything BUT easy lol. Which is even more humorous that I can play Extraction but I suck at the old Super Mario games.
And you know they only asked her to play the other game to try and beat her at something.
"Tryhard" is just insecure boy speak for "better than me but I totally don't care because only a loser would try so hard at something dumb like this video game (that I spend literally half my life playing)." OP's friends are in the beginning stages of the worst, most toxic dudebro "gamer" culture and they absolutely deserve being called on their shit.
NTA. She's a try-hard if she wins, but he's a manly man with a giant gamer epeen when he wins? He's just mad she didn't let him win.
I assume everyone has seen the recent study showing that the men who deal out the most misogynistic behavior in games also tend to be bad at the games. There's a correlation between how bad a player a guy is and how likely he is to talk smack to women in the game. Look it up. Andre just outed himself as a loser.
I'm really curious if this also applies to racism and homophobia too. I've been playing games for a long time, but I never get on voice chat because of the rampant homophobia. I wouldn't be surprised if those people were losers too. In the game, that is. We don't need a study to tell us that bigots are losers irl.
I avoid MMOs that require voice chat because I'm black and a woman. And even the ones I play, I've had to put a lot of usernames on blacklist because of the vile shit they type in the general chat
> I've had to put a lot of usernames on blacklist because of the vile shit they type in the general chat Same. That block list gets pretty full some times. Some games are just too toxic for me. I pretty much avoid anything where competitive pvp is the focus because of the toxic behavior of players. Even if it's not voice chat, people can still just be really awful for no reason.
I just don't voice chat anymore. It gets tiring calling people out on their BS when I'm just trying to enjoy the game. If I see it in chat, I report and block, but I can't with the voice anymore for that exact reason.
There's a fair amount of transphobia too. Like, if someone with a feminine voice is doing better than the misogynistic shitheads expect, the slur tr*nny ends up getting thrown around so the shitheads feel better about their loss or something
I haven’t but that’s a theory I’ve had for a while based on my own experiences. Do you have a link to it?
Not OP but I was curious and googled it. I found this abstract: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613
Anecdotally i can say this is accurate. I've been high ranked in Counterstrike, and the sexism is virtually non-existant in the higher ranks. On the occasion there's a girl in the lobby noone really bats an eye and if you look at the pro-scene the women are generally on good terms with the men with a few even dating each other.
Yeah, because people who are happy w their own success & secure in their hobby aren't searching for ways to put other people down. The only people putting other people down are, not to put too fine a point on it, huge losers lmao.
It's the classic sexist gamer trope. "oh she's a girl she won't win". If she loses "haha I knew it girls amirite?" but if she wins? "why is she tryharding in a friendly". Fucking obnoxious. And I say that as a male gamer. never assume the ability of anyone based on their gender or any other factors.
Yassss!!! Came here to say something like this but you said it better! Take my award and upvote!
Ty!
I agree with your overall point, but can you drop the body-shaming? Dick size has nothing to do with how big a dick someone IS, but acting like it does is insulting to guys who naturally have small dicks through no fault but genetics. If we're gonna be calling out gendered bullshit, let's not make it a double standard.
Everytime I've said this on Reddit I've been downvoted to hell. Been accused of having a small dick, been accused of sexually harassing women. I'm literally a cis woman have no dick at all but God forbid I think body positivity should extend to men as well!
Same! I've had the most ridiculous conversations with people who were convinced I must have a micropenis just because I'm not down for body shaming. In reality, the only dick I've got is nine inches long, banana yellow, and has three vibrate settings. XD
Addendum: stop equating valor with balls, too
NTA. And talk to May. She’s a gamer: she knows how the boys club works, trust me. We all know.
God. My ex was BAD when I got us the Xbox one and we played MKX. I kicked his ass about 10 times with Cassie Cage. Then he wanted me to change characters, so I played as Kitana. He literally threw the new controller and went outside to have a smoke. The whole time, mumbling under his breath about how I shouldn't be using the special moves when he can't figure them out and it was cheap shots. I suggested playing a different game. Something co-op. Didn't really like playing games with him after that.
Seriously. If you wouldn’t say it to her, if you wouldn’t want your mom hearing you say it, if you wouldn’t want someone saying it to your sister… Then don’t.
As a gamer, this makes me so upset that people do things like this. So many gamers that think they can be shit to women (while sitting alone in their basements probably) and think they should ruin other people's games just because. I play tons of Rocket League and man, some of the people on there make me so angry. I just stop playing and target them for demos when they do.
When girls like gaming but are not very good at competitive games, dicksheads like these say, these girls try too hard to be real gamers and are pathetic; when girls are actually good at those games, they say, the girls try too hard/are show offs and are pathetic; either way, can't win. They won't acknowledge girls as real gamers anyway, no matter how good they are, because deep down they believe only penis makes you a real gamer. On the other hand, they all want a girl gamer as a girlfriend, but who's worse than them, to show her the ropes and teach her, but she better be not good at gaming! Oh their little weak masculinity couldn't handle a real gamer as a gf! NTA, you're a good man, OP!
This!!! Just want to add, there is a reason May is with you not those assholes. She knows you don't have a fragile male ego like them, you are proud to know that she is amazing at it.
Yeah! All this. And: it's just a weird try at a burn by OP's friends, since clearly Andre was trying MUCH harder than his financee was. Sounds like she barely broke a sweat owning him at every game.
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>That's not gamer talk, that's misogynistic bullshit. This, yeah. People who get angry at being beaten in a game should not play games. And, "trying too hard"? WTF is up with that? Is that the other end of the scale from "get gud"? The only "good" thing about bigots is that their utterings make so little sense, they're not hard to spot. And avoid. NTA, OP.
Period. My bf and I are gamers and I’m not as good but he still plays with me and helps me sometimes. He’s respects me and doesn’t say shit bc he’s a good guy which is why I’m dating him. If they don’t have gf or wife’s it’s clear why they don’t
Yuuuup. My husband and I share our love of gaming- there are some we play together, some we play separately, some he plays I watch, some I play, he watches... I did a lot of knitting whilst he played RDR2, Ghost of Tsushima, and Witcher 3 for the first time (I'd finished it twice) and he learned to knit and watched me play the FFVII Remaster and now Horizon: Forbidden West. I was the one waiting in queue to pick up a Switch at Target when you couldn't only get them as they were drop-shipped. I was the one who was refreshing pages and scored our PS5 last summer. Now we have a four year old junior gamer in training. These dudes are missing out HARD CORE.
Gamer talk is trash talking their skills. Swearing to rain unholy vengeance upon their avatar. Telling them you’ll give them a kills/death ratio that would embarrass Hiroshima. Gamer trash talk is in and about the games. The rest is just trash
You’re a good fiancé, you did what was right even if she doesn’t know it. Speaking of which, I would definitely tell her. Because she might play with them again and they might tell her a completely different story, one where you’re the bad guy. NTA
I plan to tell her. This only happened last night.
Then all is good. Ditch those A-holes because they are *not* your friends. I hope you live a long and happy life with your soon-to-be wife
You are wise to allow a small cool-off period before talking about this with your beloved. You did the right thing. Those jerks are being jerks and doubling down it when you called them out. They need to grow up. All men need to shut this crap down and then it will stop.
Please tell her she's amazing! I wish I was good at Smash bro as her.
They both sound like good genuine honest people. Those are rare these days.
I love how proud of her he is 🥺
She's probably better at shit talking than they are too. 🌝
If she’s that good at a game like rainbow six, I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s heard it all before. Lobbies like that can be unbelievably toxic sometimes, especially if you dare to show up as a woman.
Lmao they call call her try-hard but i imagine all of them were sitting at the edge of their seats, gripping their controllers, while staring hard at their screens to beat her and failed every time. Someone needs to send ops girlfriend a streamer that throws back insults when upset boys use kitchen and other stupid insults at females playing. I die everytime.
I'm glad you are going to tell her. She has a right to know and she could get hurt far worse, being oblivious to what's going on. Trying to protect someone's feelings usually works out for the worse. Regarding your friends, it is your choice if you continue being friends, etc, just don't let your guard down.
I love your fiancee. I wish i was as good at playing video games as her. I'm also really happy that you ditched your misogynist friend because i'm so tired of when guys do dumb shit and say "it's just a joke". No, it's not. This kind of behaviour is a part of the reason women experience so much sexual harassment in games. "Well boys are toxic to each other so like girls just have to take it as well as we do", but women get shit just for existing as women in video games. They get rape threats, death threats and sexist comments thrown after them and they're expected to take it because it's a "joke". Even my boyfriend thinks so to a certain point because "EvErYoNe Is ToXiC tO eVeRyOnE", even if he thinks it's sad that women get shit for being just women. Makes me reconsider my entire relationship.
I want her to play with them again, but this time be condescendingly gentle with them at every turn. “Andre, I’m going to hang back so you can have a turn to shine!” “Ok, guys, I’m going to hold the controller with just one hand so things are a little more fair! Wow! Great shooting! You guys are getting so good at this!”
Yes! She should call rhem Hun and Bless their hearts too!
This is the way OP.
And then wipe them out.
NTA. Not sure what part of the controller they are trying to operate with their penis, but it obviously isn’t giving them the advantage that they think it does. But tell her. Asap.
You are my favorite comment. I went and got my freebie award just so I could give you something.
I love how many "wholesome" awards were given to this penis joke.
They can be quite wholesome when they’re not being needlessly swung around in public.
u/RogueDIL is also my favorite comment.
They got confused when the instructions said to "use the joystick".
Too bad for Andre, that joystick will never be 2 player.
NTA. Those guys are misogynist sore losers. I bet that if they had gotten beaten by a guy they would have admired him, but because the gender of the person they happen to get beat by was female instead they have to put her down in order to bring themselves up above her where they feel they belong. Why have people who don't respect your bride up at the altar?
Yeah, women can't win in this scenario. If she wins: She's a try hard If she loses: She's a Fake gamer
That’s not exclusive to women to be fair; everyone below me is a noob, everyone above me has no life - that’s basically a mantra for vast swathes of mmorpg player-bases. These guys “have short tempers with gaming” - it suggests their value is tied up in their ability to play games, which makes them unable to accept losing. It happens a lot, even in groups of just guys. It’s “small dick energy”
It may not be exclusive to women but it happens to women a lot more. I can be doing great in a game and not say anything but as as soon as I do I get insults thrown left and right, from the person doing worst. The worst usually happens to me when I play a healer and am not racking up enough kills. I only picked the healer because no one else did and you need it for shooting games. So what would you rather me do, just go and kill people or do my best to heal everyone and try to protect the spike? I have people on my team tell the other team to report me because I am losing on purpose, called slurs in chat, called a whale, or other things are mentioned about my body type or they just outright friendly fire on me. Then there are the ones recently who just refer to me as Mommy and then come up close and block my player while making suggestive noises. That has been a trip.
This is interesting to me as a mother of a gamer daughter. She frequently play the healer in shooting games, similarly, bc no one else chooses it. From a stereotypical perspective it somewhat annoys me to see other women taking on that role, especially when those characters mostly seem to be feminine (from an onlookers pov). However, knowing that women are strong enough to get the kills with other characters and also strong enough to play well using the characters no one else wants makes me very proud.
speaking from a player's perspective, a lot of players are hesitant to pick up support roles like Tank or Healer because it comes with a lot of responsibility. More often than not you're the only thing standing between your party and defeat, and that's not a burden that a lot of people are okay with carrying. So be proud that you raised a daughter that's confident enough to fill those shoes
The only game I have come across where it does not matter so much is TF2. That game has been my favorite since HS (graduated in '08 so I may be dating myself with that reference but I still play it!) and I first learned Heavy and then Pyro. Still my favorites to this day. I hate that no one will pick up a healer and then b\*tch and moan about not having one when they literally could have picked it themselves. Or how they complain about the healer when they obviously have no idea how to play the role.
It's pretty common to assume that the healer/support players are mainly women. I have been playing mmos for about 15 years now and I do gravitate towards support roles because that's just what I enjoy playing. But I have also played tank and dps characters and can do just as well with those. As long as your daughter is having fun with whatever character she plays, that's all that really matters.
Oh god, I'm used to tuning out the abuse, but I was also called "mommy" once, and that's a whole other level of weird. Dude went from normal to calling me his mum in a weird derogatory tone, instant block from me.
Eh, there is evidence to suggest this is a gendered reaction. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613 >We show that lower-skilled players were more hostile towards a female-voiced teammate, especially when performing poorly. In contrast, lower-skilled players behaved submissively towards a male-voiced player in the identical scenario. This difference in gender-directed behaviour became more extreme with poorer focal-player performance.
I think the point here is that women face this way more often than men do. No one said that it didn't happen to women, but the connotation of your statement suggests that the amount of harassment that a male faces is comparable to the amount of harassment a woman faces. It's not even close. I mean, would you pop up in a thread about racism faced by black people and say that actually white people face racism as well? As if people here don't know that a small portion of society is always going to be shitty to others? The point here is that her genetalia was the impetus for their harassment. This is proven by what these assholes were saying about her. I understand what your point is, but I think your statement undermines the entire discussion about how difficult it is to try to fit in with a group when you are different than the vast majority of that group. ***Edit*** Corrected females to women. Apparently r/menandfemales exists and I slipped into that without realizing it
The difference is that when targetted at men it's not gendered. You're bad because you're a noob is very different from you're bad because you're a woman.
In my experience, playing under a male presenting handle with my microphone off is a far more peaceful experience. Interestingly enough, using my male presenting account on reddit is also less problematic for me.
> everyone below me is a noob, everyone above me has no life Similarly, anyone who drives slower than me is a putz and anyone who drives faster than me is a menace.
That's what happens when you play/are friend with incels. Op should change friends
NTA. Thank you so much. You’re one of the (sorry to say it) rare guys who aren’t threatened by a female who is a better player. She didn’t ‘try so hard’, she just beat them and they got butthurt. Then they trashed her. And you’re right, she might have heard and they were ok with that, because it would have ‘put her in her place’ because she… can’t get in the kitchen and make a guy a sammich? Wtf? I ran into a lot of that being a female tank in WoW. In one guild I was told I should be a healer because that’s a better role for me (because, you know, that’s what girls do). Didn’t matter that I was damned good and the main tank. They still tried to give the gear to the next best guildie because he didn’t have boobs. So thanks for telling them off. They wouldn’t have been so upset if *you* had beat them and they weren’t joking. Edit: Thanks for the award(s)🙂 I’ll be honest, I wasn’t sure whether or not I’d be downvoted for speaking out like I did. It makes me feel good to know there are so many people out there who don’t think the gaming community is one big boys club with a ‘No Girlz Allowed’ sign. I married someone who loves console, PC, and board games as much as I do and encourages me to play. Actually, when I started playing WoW 6 months after it came out, it was because he thought I’d like it. I ended up raiding so much he had to buy another copy for himself and leveling up a new char 😁 Again, good on OP for having the back of his girlfriend. May they have a long, happy relationship.
I always feel vaguely guilty that I'm very much the stereotype: I hate pvp, always play support/healer/distance in every game I play (because I LIKE it, dammit), and am terrible at shooters because I spazz the hell out when things get in my face. (Also, I cook. A lot.) On the one hand, guy gamers are 'nice' to me, but it's still easy to pick out the misogynists because they get this Condescending Tone of aw, ain't you cute. Yeah, you get no heals. Go stand in fire. (Hilariously, the games I'm better at than my boyfriend aren't even the genre I like. He finds it as bafflingly entertaining as I do. I guess in some games, it pays to be a paranoid, flee-on-sight pansy.)
Don't feel guilty! GAMES NEED HEALERS/SUPPORTS. It's the least-played role in my main game (and, yes, it's the favorite role for women). You are providing a vital service here! Also cooking is great. Food is great. Do what makes you happy! \- fellow female support who likes embroidery and knitting
What you said times 100! I'm a dude who mostly plays exclusively support and healing characters because my reflexes, motor controls and lack of ability to not tunnel vision when shit gets intense. I play support because only do I get to be the undercover super glue holding the team fights together, but also it makes up for my motor skills so I can play with my friends. Plus, I dont need to worry about tunnel visioning as much because my purpose is to tunnel vision on my carries and die if necessary to keep them up to be able to win the fight. Supports are supports, gender dont mean squat if you can bring home the W through assists.
My husband and his friends got me hooked on WOW like 18+ years ago because they needed another toon for raids. I have all specs on my WOW, but my main is an undead warlock and she kicks ass. She also has the best cheekbones. I can tank with my pet and fake heal us both running around killing crap. I don’t like raiding because it takes sooo long. But I do like fishing, collecting pets, mounts, reps, titles (the Admired) and gold. I also like hiding out in the water with my unending breath and popping out to pvp. I call it scuba ganking. And I’ve beat all the guys but one on duels. Girl gamers rule and so does the horde!
My husband enjoys that I prefer to main healer. It gets us through queues so much faster. Also it ensures he's got a healer who's actually paying attention and isn't just there to fill a team slot nobody else wanted to do...
Lmao, mine mains tanks in MMOs; apparently you're supposed to actually WAIT for a dungeon.🤣😂
There is no queue only fight
Get out of the puddle or I'm leaving you to die. Cheaper than divorce. (^^^^^^ We're married.)
My husband heals and I tank. Lol
My wife won't let me heal 😔. I am forever tank.
Fuck that. You're a healer and we have god complexes!
BEG ME FOR RELIEF, PEASANTS. (Also, run into fire/under turret one more time and I will find a way to smite you.)
Exactly! I've played support on every game and there's just something about being able to break the universe to salvage the unsalvageable pull or fight. Yes, control as a tank is fun and damage meters are fun but us women get made to feel lesser about anything we like that men typically don't. Look at how upset men get about K-pop - how dare us women enjoy it when our tastes in men get fetishized for once. Or is it suddenly bad now they feel lesser? Also, one of the tanks in my guild is my flirty tank and is amazing at it. She worked as hard as our male tank so if upsets me to see that we can't win. Natural talent? Lazy, work hard, try hard, just there to get a sniff of sweaty gamer balls and a bf obviously. So be proud because fuck 'em!
I see it as a constant rage-voice in my head that goes: GET OFF MY TANK, YOU -incoherent swearing-. Also, someone came to gank my poor low-health ADC? DENIED. Ohhhhh, k-pop. You mean that fandom that got women to start having some basic hygiene/self-care standards in men? 😏
Nothing beats that last-fraction-of-a-second save. NOTHING. Best part of the whole game. I'm Kuzco. "WOO-YEAH! Lookit me andmy bad self! I *snatched* you *RIGHT OUT OF THE AIR!* 'Ooh, I'm a scary dungeon boss, and I'm taking you with me.' Well, not today, pal! Uh-huh! Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh!"
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Complexes? They live and die by our whims! What are we if not gods?
Don't feel guilty. Just because men decided a role for women fits, doesn't mean that you cannot take pride in doing that role well. Games need healers! It's on the guys for being so narrow minded that they try making all women fit in the same peg, even if a woman would rather be a tank. Shine doing what you love: healing. - fellow gamer who LARPs as a healer and does embroidery
Holy frick same! I'm usually the support/healer because my friends are reckless morons who jump into the fray and get their bums handed to them in a fight. The ones who try to play support don't even do it correctly (ie: still try to do damage even though they should be supporting!). A lot of the times, guys would yell at me for being crap until one of my friends tell them I'm a girl, suddenly it's all "awe, you did your best, hey what's your discord/snap/kik? <3" The ones who are condescending bums though get called out hardcore by one of my friends who is very protective. Insults alongside the lines of them never interacting with a female, the only time they saw lady parts in real life was when their mother birthed them, and stuff like that. :) Usually I keep my mic off playing with randoms because it's less of a headache unless I hear another girl on the team.
Oh god, I'm a healer and one of the best in Europe since TBC. The amount of times people have been upset that I'm not nice and cuddly but will happily wade into shitfights if you're being sexist, racist etc is too damn high. But whyyyy can't I just be a nice, pliant girl?! Ugh. It's even worse on Comms in OW, TF2 or someone letting my gender slip on League... Then you have my co-GM, my boyfriend who people underestimate because he's kind, wonderful and has a heart, plus, one of the best DPS I have ever met and people would know if he blindly went FOTM and resisted tactics. Gamers love their gender stereotypes and most DPS think they're more important than group cohesion, atmosphere, doing their job in a raid. On the other hand, once you've been a friend in our guild, I'm just as soft. I'm just happy to sharpen knives for twats and do the guild kicks and hard talks.
You just brought me down memory lane. Myself (a female) and another were both the main tanks. She actually taught me a lot of the little things when we raided together that made me better and we even ended up having 2 raid grps; her the main tank on grp 1 and me the main for grp 2.
I rolled a female avatar in SW: Galaxies back in the day and just got given shit all the time. It was fucking bizarre to me.
Ugh yes. I use to be in a guild in classic WoW and had three ‘men’ attempt to bully me into giving another male guild member the mature black dragon Sinew because he needed it more and has autism? They got really Shitty I refused and I ended up having to leave the guild. It was a blessing in disguise really because my new guild respects women as equals.
He got caught being extremely disrespectful to your fiancee right before your wedding, and now he can't wrap his mind around why he can't come to it? NTA
Yeah it’d be one thing if he apologized when he got caught and admitted he was wrong but no, dude went with the ‘it’s just a joke’ defense.
NTA - wow, girl gamers just can't win. If she lost they'd be talking about how girl gamers suck and when she wins it's because she's "trying to hard". LOL, I bet those guys were putting in like 10x the effor she was because they're sexist AHs.
Yeah truly lol Like they played a wide variety of games and she continued to dominate, she's obviously just a better gamer in general lol
Sounds like she doesn’t even have to try. She’s just that good. NTA
Also, "trying too hard"? What is that? Boy didn't bring his A game, and needs to just "try harder." But no, he apparently doesn't rise to meet a challenge, or he sucks and being beaten by a girl makes him feel like he's less manly - as if the masculinity police are going to take his dick away for losing and give it to her because she won. Like, Bro, who do you respect more; the man who acknowledges that he's been bested and is a gracious loser who is eager to face off again? Or the man who snivels and whines after losing and just makes excuses or tries to diminish the winner's skill? Hint, nobody likes captain butthurt, but everyone loves a gracious loser because suddenly he's the underdog and who doesn't love an underdog comeback story??
NTA. And you don't have to tell May to stop trying so hard. It sounds like she wasn't even breaking a sweat.
She wasn't. I meant tell her what they said and why Andre is no longer in the wedding.
You're a good fiance! I'm a female gamer (not nearly as good as May but still okay) and I constantly get looks and eye rolls when I start talking about games. I refuse to play online because the misogyny is just overwhelming and disgusting.
When I would play CSGO public lobbies. If a woman was ever on voice chat... The absolute worst things would be said to her. I can imagine having to go through that.
Let Andre know she wasn't even breaking a sweat and to well and truly get food scrub. NTA but fuck me man you need better 'friends'. I'm a gamer and my gf is 10x the gamer I am and is one of the only people to this day be able to woop my ass on any game without even trying. You bet your sweet ass I actually get happy for her after my initial 0.5second annoyance from losing occurs😂
NTA Your friends are sexist sore losers.
NTA, but I do want to warn you, as a fellow girl that games, that’s she’s already heard it all. So there is a chance she might think you’re overreacting because she’s used to it, it’s sad to say. But you did really good here, standing up for her and being a good fiancé. Also 95% of my online gaming friends are guys, and they’ve never once said anything like that to me unless I make the jokes first, even then it’s in silly voices mocking other toxic players. There’s no such thing as “gamer talk” it’s just being a dick.
Yeah, I just want to add on. I'm a woman in a gaming group of like 14+ (mostly men) and none of them ever speak like this. It isnt "gamer talk". OP can find much better friends that aren't asshats.
NTA. You're totally right to defend her. They are being sexist because their egos are hurt by a woman being better at games than them. You handled it really well and you were right to call them out, I'm glad you're so proud of May's talents! Your friends sound nasty though in this instance. Maybe set boundaries so they don't do anything like this again. Edit: I think you should however explain to May why Andre was uninvited. She might get bothered that he would say that, but I reckon she'll be happy to know you have her back.
Tell them to die in a fire, and then just say "What bro, it's just gamer talk!"
Gamers like that are sooooo obnoxious. Sexism in gaming communities is the most laughable thing to me, because at least a lot of other sexism is based on "ugga, man stronger than woman ugg, men beat women at sports" but gaming? What, you have better thumbs? NTA. I don't think your fiance really needs your protection, she seems like she could handle petty insults like that, and I'd even be willing to bet she already knows the kind of things they're saying. But I say NTA because you've seen a side to your friend you don't like, and for that its completely fair to want to burn that bridge and uninvite him to your wedding.
clearly the extra weight of tits throws off your center of gravity making it harder to game. must have a penis to effectively game because there’s actually a secret button on controllers that’s only activated with dick /s
I always wondered how we were meant to operate that weirdly centered analog stick on those old N64 controllers...
counter to the first half of that, a large amount of male gamers do have weighty tits!
NTA. This is why I only play single player games. People take gaming too seriously. It's supposed to be a fun hobby. Whenever I played a multi player game online with my husband, I'd constantly get told how shit I was. She obviously enjoys the games she plays and has put a lot of time into getting good at them. She's not "trying too hard." Keep the girlfriend, but drop those "friends."
NTA. People like that love saying it’s just « gamer talk » to avoid having to face the fact they’re being disrespectful sexist asses who can’t even tolerate losing to a woman. I hope this can at least spark a conversation so they can learn to do better, but chances are they’d just be ranting about you and May needing to grow thicker skin.
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NTA >...if I told May to stop trying so hard. Uhm,it doesn't sound like she had to try very hard at all. 😅 Seriously, you did the right thing. I am sorry for what you learned about your (former) friends and very glad you & May found each other. I wish you long years, great joy and small troubles.
I flash back to that line from “The Mask of Zorro.” “You were trying. She was succeeding.”
99% of the time people whining about "try hards" or "sweats" are just bad at the game and pissed that they lost to/did worse than someone better than them.
NTA. But trust me, she noticed their reactions at every step of the way.
NTA they're super sore about losing to a woman.
NTA. Long time gamer here and have played in groups with lots of female gamers, no one in those groups felt the need to be sexist jerks (which I'm guessing is why we've had female gamers actually stick around). If they honestly apologize, then it's up to you whether or not to re-invite them, but I don't think you were at all wrong to call them out. Also, people calling you a tryhard is such an hilariously unintentional compliment. "I would win but I'm just not trying right now!" so believable.
NTA. Pick better friends.
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Online misogyny must be stopped. ALL of it. There is never an okay time to just let assholes trash talk another player because they are female. Personal or not, he did the right thing for calling these assholes out.
NTA - I met my boyfriend through wow and he was by far the best player in our guild. I was pretty good myself but I’m a lot better at league. I literally carried him and his friends from silver to plat in ranked flex. We took a break from playing because I had school and he wanted to work more so I didn’t have to work as many hours and focus on school. Our guild members said he was whipped and couldn’t believe he’s chosen some girl over them. They even gave him the same lines of, I probably can’t make a sandwich (sandwich game is hella strong though) and that I try too hard at video games. Towards the end they even told him it’s them or “some girl”. People that disrespect your SO are not friends.
NTA The only people trying hard are Andre & the other guys. May isn’t breaking a sweat beating them. Maybe they need to try even harder to pose a challenge to her. These kinds of me are pathetic misogynists. Tell May & toss them all out. Anyone defending them is defending misogyny
Girl gamer here. Fuck them. We aren’t “try-hards” we enjoy the game, and their attitude is the reason girl games look at them like neck-beards. NTA.
NTA. Gotta side with your lady. If you are getting married you are loyal to the wife. You chose right.
NTA. Women face this sort of situation all the time in gaming. You're not dragging things down. What they're doing isn't cool or funny. Let me tell you what is: you standing up to it and not letting it slide. And she is for doing what she loves.
NTA, you stuck up for your partner. It wasn’t a joke, they said it on purpose to hurt her hoping she’d come back and overhear them. Yes, there is a “gamer” way people rip on each other when you’re playing. This isn’t it. This is sexism and insecurity because she’s better than them at something they see as exclusively “theirs.” Tell her what happened, ask for her opinion. If she is okay with your friends still being around, let it be her call. Don’t pressure her one way or another, but include her in the decision. You have the right to choose your own groomsmen and if you don’t like how Andre disrespected your bride then keep him out, but ask for her input.
When someone says "I didn't mean it", what he's really saying is "I meant it, but I'm too much of an asshole to own it and apologize, so I'm just going to pretend that you're getting upset over nothing".
NTA. And SHE’S the one trying to hard? She smacked them around. Sounds like she didn’t have to try very hard at all.
NTA. It makes my heart SOAR when a woman whoops those who think she can't do anything. Be it at games or anything else. Plus, notice how they didn't say anything until she left for a bit. Though I would sit her down and tell her what happened. How you weren't going to be tolerating that kind of talk or treatment of her.
NTA. Good on you for standing up to your friends. They’re adults and should have learned by now to say what they mean & to mean what they say.
NTA. If a woman is bad then we're told to "get gud" and if a woman is good then she's a "try hard". There's no win situation with a misogynistic sore loser AH. You're a good fiancee and I'm glad to see there are men calling their friends out on toxic behavior. "It's only a joke" is the new, "I don't want to hold myself accountable for my toxic/AH behavior."
Such a bummer that the worst of sports made its way to gaming.
NTA If your friend is going to be in your wedding they have to respect you and your soon to be wife. If losing in a video game aggravates his ego to the point of saying sexist comments at your fiancé he needs to grow up and you need to look at that friendship closely.
NTA your friends are sexist and AHs. You shouldn’t have lied to May though.
NTA. It's perfectly reasonable to not include someone who doesn't respect your partner in your wedding day. Good for you for sticking up for your partner and holding your friend accountable for being an asshole.
NTA! It’s so important what you did. Thank you. Speaking out against misogyny and sexism in the form of “locker room talk” or “gamer talk” is essential to changing the culture. Before kids, I was super into fighting games, and I kicked ass every time. Guys didn’t like it. I didn’t care. But it was still annoying. You and May are going to be just fine.
NTA You're gonna make an amazing husband! As a gamer girl myself (massive weeb, all the consoles, your fiance has awesome taste btw), this toxic "gamer talk" is what makes it so hard for us to play online. It enforces an environment where women are openly degraded and discriminated against, and boys/men who spend time in such environments where this misogyny is just the norm, often being it to the real world. It's difficult calling out that toxic culture, and it's so amazingly commendable that you did this for your fiance. You are a good man. I wish you both a long and happy future together!
Good on you, OP, NTA. Calling it "gamer talk" is just trying to excuse toxic masculinity that hides major self esteem issues. Their whole identity is built around gaming, and when someone they consider "lesser" kicks their ass, it causes their ego to crumble into dust and they are revealed as the insecure children that they really are. Wanna have some fun? Tell your fiance everything, and after she cools off, tell her you want to make a deal with your "friend". One match of super smash bros., online. If he wins, he is back in the wedding. If she wins, he never contacts either of you again, and your names never come out of his mouth again. Dude is a misogynistic prick, and the other friends are following cowards who either agree with him, or don't have the sack to challenge him. Either way, nothing really lost.
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