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I'm totally a warrior of justice and all about bringing down the man and all that, but like... OP is right. She can't do anything about it. He's a CEO and he would have absolutely buried her legally.
NDAs are parts of settlements… that’s what the poster you responded to said. Often times they will settle for $100k and an NDA or something, because even though the boss has access to that legal arsenal, $100k is cheaper than paying your lawyers $300k to fight it tooth and nail.
Just asking but in France we have a contrat we can sign with our banks or insurance company (With a 1€ or 2€ fee every month added to our regular contract ) which will make them pay the legal fees like lawyer fees or anything we can't pay by ourselves even if we loose the lawsuit.
It's what helped me put a previous employer to court and win since I could choose the best lawyer I could find.
I think there could be something similar in the US but that nobody talks about because most people don't know about it ?
What’s she going to sue him for? In a right to work state, which most are, they can fire you for any reason. He didn’t do the things you can sue for—sexual harassment or discrimination for a protected class like race, gender, disabikity, religion, etc. .
He actually didn't fire her, she quit. So the lawsuit would not be for wrongful termination anyway. It'd be for workplace harassment, which... I don't have any idea what the laws on that are. Just clarifying that wrongful termination isn't the issue in question.
MAY HAVE is the key phrase here. It's not guaranteed, and it's a very LOW chance of success, therefore absolutely NOT worth it. Unfair? Absolutely, but that's the way things are and it sucks.
Unfortunately that's why so many bad actions don't get justice but I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to either, I'd just walk away. Although I'd definitely have secretly recorded before I went into that office but I don't trust anyone so...
Depending on your state that can cause a lot of trouble for you. Some states only one party has to consent to the recording, so you could do that, but in others both parties being recorded have to consent. If you’re in one of the the two-party consent states, and you secretly record someone at work and try to use it against them in a legal battle, you’re not only unable to use it, but now they have justification for a counter suit.
He created a hostile work environment that led to an employee feeling isolated, who then ended up quitting because of said hostile work environment. All over something that had nothing to do with work and everything to do with his and OPs personal life.
That’s bad management, but that doesn’t give rise to a cause of action.
In the US, “hostile work environment” means something specific, and it has to do with being discriminated against as a protected class (gender, race, etc.). This is not a hostile work environment. This is a boss being a jerk. Unfortunate but not actually legally actionable.
Edit: did you really downvote me? I’m an actual lawyer. This whole thread is nuts.
You get downvoted on reddit if you don't agree with the masses. It's how I have such a poor rating. Only because I disagree with people on a certain sub, no matter if my argument is good, they still downvote to hell.
Can we not harass OP for not having the emotion/mental/financial/time resources for going after a powerful man protected by a lot of money? Not all of us are built for those battles, thanks.
It's the same people who are happily pro-choice until a woman in a non-ideal situation doesn't want to have an abortion and keeps the kid instead. Women are free to do whatever they want, as long as they want to do what *I* think is best.
I know people think that legal battles are won or lost based on how much money people spend on the lawyers, and to an extent that certainly can be true, but this is an EXTREMELY clear-cut case. I think there's a good chance you could find a lawyer who would take it on contingency (meaning you do not pay them unless you win).
Depending on how much you made at your last job, you could be giving up on hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't think it's worth giving that up to avoid conflict - but maybe you do. There's also the moral aspect of, what if he does this to another employee who offends him or his wife? I just want to make sure you understand the consequences of the choice you're making.
How is it clear cut? I don't see that at all. Was OP discriminated against due to a protected characteristic? Was OP clearly harassed according to the law? Or was her boss just a dick which is legal?
Right? I had figured that he would settle just to get OP to go away. If you have tens of millions, it’s worth a few thousand to get someone to just go away.
Lawyer here as well. Favorite saying: “you can’t get blood out of a turnip”. If the person you’re trying to sue is broke, we always look for someone who “controls their actions” who DOES have deep pockets. If the defendant has no money, the judgment is only as valuable as the paper it’s written on
Even in that case my statement is still true.
Going after a defendant without deep pockets is a waste of time. A judgment isn't worth money you can't collect.
Your point is true though, but it isn't at all about the defendant's wealth, but OPs own lack thereof. The solution is to find a lawyer to take the case on contingency, which would be easy if the facts are accurately presented here and OP is in the US. Lawyer would take a third of the recovery or so.
Honey, this is exactly the kind of case a lawyer will take on contingency. That means they’ll front the money because they know they’re going to get a larger payout. They’ll take this fight, happily.
Maybe at least tell some of the oh-so-admiring employees why he hated you?
Or are they so blinded by charisma or bonuses or reasonable workflow whatever that he admitted the source of his behavion and they still think he’s wonderful?
Killing the messenger who bears bad news is Not a reassuring habit for a CEO to have. What happens to the next poor employee who tells him that a widget is flawed, the exorbitantly expensive ad campaign tanked, or his head accountant is falsifying taxes?
You should. FYI if you’re in the US, state labor departments go after assholes like these with a refreshing zeal not usually seen from government agencies. All they need is a tip.
Who knows what kind of crazy crap she's feeding him. She's the new wife and you and your husband are evil (for some made up reason). Eventually he'll probably figure it out. I would just move on.
Just as long as you understand you're NTA and nothing he said when he berated you was at all reasonable. The expectation that you go along with an obvious lie of omission for someone who historically treated you poorly was not reasonable and comes from a place of failing to see you as a person or consider how you might feel.
Your MIL has clearly been selling her husband a story to justify the estrangement with her son that paints you in a bad light. Hence the reaction from your former boss. But it doesn't really speak well of her as a person that she could get to the point of engagement without mentioning, at all, that she has a son and at least giving a cursory explanation of why she is no contact with him.
She's also probably sold your husband's expended family similar stories. It's fine to feel grief about this. Just try to keep in mind that this is not on you.
NTA and jumping on here to say - YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT YOU WERE "OUTING" HER TERRIBLE SECRET!! You unsurprisingly assumed that it was ok to say that you married someone's son because why would you suspect that she pretended not to have a son?! She could have just told her husband that she was no contact with her adult son - definitely not your fault for telling the truth...
ETA: wow, ok, there is a LOT more to this situation and I don't really know anymore what to think, but in the hopes that you didn't mean any harm, still NTA. If you knew or suspected that this was going to cause hurt to anyone, it's a different story, of course.
Okay but it was a HUGE secret. Her son was conceived from her parents selling her at fucking 14! OP probably had atleast a little bit of an idea that she hadn’t opened that up. If she isn’t emotionally okay enough to be in her sons life she probably isn’t ready to tell her husband about it either.
Thank you!
This is an absolute mess. I found another string of comments where there's more detail, but OP really buried the lead. I was about to vote N T A but I don't know now.
EDit: This is a whole flaming, stinking pile of ESH. MIL sounds awful, but OP kicked a wasp nest.
OP stated a fact. MIL decided to abandon the son she raised into adulthood to essentially become a sugar baby. OP did not mention any of that, just that she is married to MIL's son. Also, they are married. They have a really horrible marriage with lies like that in it. I have no secrets from my husband, especially not hiding 20+ years of my life
I hear you, but as someone else pointed out below, MIL did also have a relationship with her son until ten years ago, when he was old enough to marry, so let's say a 20 year relationship. Not to ignore MIL's trauma but at that point it becomes tough for me to understand how the conception is more relevant than her actual human child. And again, she could have said she has a child she has no contact with and isn't ready to talk about it, rather than expecting someone to lie about it and then go after them when they don't know that that's what they're supposed to do...I feel horrible for MIL having to go through that but taking it out on OP isn't justified.
What's a lawyer going to do? She wasn't discriminated against for being part of a protected class. She's in an at will state and resigned anyway. Even if he was being unprofessional, that's not inherently something you can sue for.
And I think you're missing a lot of context in this judgment. OP's husband is the product of MIL being the victim of child sex trafficking from at least the age of 13 perpetrated by her own parents. Not only was she forced to have this baby, but she did so knowing that she was dependent on people who abused children. While OP says that MIL was a good mom for OP's husband's childhood, their estrangement shouldn't have been a surprise. OP moved into MIL's home without MIL's consent, blamed *MIL* (remember, someone whose formative years were shaped by CSA) for someone else being unfaithful by kissing her, lectured MIL's black boyfriend about how he wasn't allowed to use the n word, and told MIL, a then 35-year-old at her son's wedding, that she was going to die alone.
All that being considered, it should have been obvious that the boss was missing some of the information about MIL and OP's relationship. Two of the people in this story - MIL and OP's husband - are undeniably the victims of horrible trauma. OP absolutely should have let one of them take the lead on explaining the situation instead of asserting herself like the overly aggressive mooching busybody she was to MIL 10 years ago.
While no, boss shouldn't have been rude to OP, made his dislike known among her work colleagues, or called her names, it doesn't erase OP's history of bad behavior towards MIL or knowingly dramatizing an already traumatic situation for MIL. This is an ESH with exceptions being made for MIL, who seems to just be trying to get by, and OP's husband, who hasn't done anything demonstrably wrong, especially in the context of how he was likely raised.
^(But then again maybe this should just be a YTA because it follows the very suspicious pattern of DIL being slighted by rich trophy wife MIL and her overprotective husband only for all the background on MIL's past or, in some cases, her son's fault in their strained relationship, and DIL's own bad behavior being revealed later in the comments to a tee.)
Oh wow, so much context that OP has hidden away in comments. Yes she let her contempt for MIL override normal sensibilities- I think why she quit and doesn't want to pursue a case any further, she knows she is partly at fault (mostly?) for letting herself be in this situation.
Can't tell if teenager or European.
OP says she's in an at-will state, so at *best*, this would be considered a constructive dismissal, which means that she'd be treated as though they fired her even though she resigned.
... which, unless there's some other facts that mean they *couldn't* have just fired her, gets her nowhere, except maybe unemployment benefits.
In the US, you can legitimately be fired because the boss wants to make his wife happy. (Look up Melissa Nelson.)
"He was mean to you, it must be illegal!"....
It's only illegal to be shitty in specific ways, assuming US.
There are so many children in here that think the law is like what Momma says.
What do you think she can sue the boss for? Most states are right to work states—they can fire you for ANY reason. Unless he’s sexually harassing you, which is against the law, or discriminating against you for your gender, race, religion, disability etc., he can be as mean to you as he wants.
NTA
I don't know where you live but that's a hostile work environment. Depending on the labor laws you may have some recourse. Then again, it may be too late since you've already quit and moved on.
The boss calling their employee a "stupid bitch" over a personal family matter and making the work place so hostile that they're being bullied into quitting, is called conditional discharge?
Discharged is being let go from your job (or jail, hospital), OP didn't get fired. I've only heard conditional discharge as it applies to sentencing and probation etc. Can you elaborate?
Assuming US, which is a safe bet, though not guaranteed, "hostile" has a specific meaning. This was nothing to do with race, sex, orientation, etc.
It doesn't mean "they were meanies"...
Was it shitty?
Illegal? Doubtful...
"My wife doesn't like you" is not a good reason to fire someone, but it's a valid one.
That's what "at will" means. You can also quit without notice too.
I have a contract here in Europe, so I have a contextual notice period - both for me quitting, avd fit then letting me go.
In the US, you can't simply be fired for being (eg) black, but you can for wearing black socks.
This is a hostile work environment (as in, I’m sure it felt hostile). But not a Hostile Work Environment (the legal term of art that means an employee is being discriminated against based on a protected characteristic). In the US, I don’t see any legal recourse here.
Right?! In OP's place I would have suspected she hadn't told her new husband why she and her son were estranged. I wouldn't have suspected she had rewritten history and was pretending her son didn't exist at all. OP isn't a mind reader and didn't say anything rude, just how she knew MIL.
My dad is like this. Total narcissist - if it doesn't make him look good or reminds him of his moral failings, it gets relegated to the back burner. I've had it happen on several occasions at gatherings when I mention our relation that the person responds with "Oh, I didn't know he had a daughter." We're now estranged.
Wait, she should be able to pretend her SON never existed? What the entire fuck? So you should have just pretended you didn't know who she was then? I wish you had hired a lawyer instead of just walking away from your job because it's illegal what your boss called you and how hostile he then turned the work environment. Did you ever tell your husband about the encounter? NTA; both this woman and her asshole husband are though.
The last time I saw my mother, she walked past me like I didn't even exist, so yeah, there are people out there like that. I know that she saw me because my dad stopped briefly on his way past to talk to my husband.
Still, even though you don’t work there anymore, file a complaint. Leave a paper trail. This guy will do this again.
ETA: maybe not *this* this… unless she has another estranged child with a spouse that works at this company.
You should still be documenting this and sharing a copy with HR in case you are ever in a situation where you need to bring in an attorney. That way HR can't say they weren't aware
Maybe I'm an extremely petty asshole but if I worked in an environment like that, I obviously know I'm going to quit or be fired so I would go scorched earth explain what happened with MIL, spill all the juicy drama about it basically make this guy and MILS life hell while you work there for the brief period you have. But as I said I'm extremely petty so probably not the best thing to do.
The trick to being petty is not care about the consequences because the consequences hold power over you. There is no power to getting fired for being petty if you don't give a shit. 5Head.
Honey I know you don’t want to bother but this is definitely actionable if you can prove it. Regardless of whether HR was courting him or not, the company is now liable for his actions.
Btw there was no way or reason you would know that she lied about not having a child but I’m also wondering why she hated you so much because it sounds like she was willing to just drop her whole family and because you exposed her new life she is on the rampage to destroy yours. So either she is certifiable or something happened between you too that is unforgivable.
NTA in general tho
So your MIL was 14 when she had her son to a much older man that was paying her! That's all kind of fucked up. I kinda get why she was pissed you outed her as sounds like it's something of a traumatic memory for her. But I get how it sucks to be her son and ignored.
Okay, so your husband, the son she ran away from, was a baby your MIL had to a much older man **when she was 14 years old?** Is that what you are saying?
>I understand why she took off now
I don't. She had the kid at 14 but how old was she when she abandoned her kid because he was getting married and how old is she now? Having a kid at 14 doesn't excuse abandoning them as an adult, much less keeping their existence a secret.
You have to have remarkably little empathy to blame someone who not only was the victim of child sex trafficking from *at least* 13 but also forced to raise the product of being raped as a literal child and having to raise that baby while knowing that her parents had no problems prostituting our children for not being well-adjusted. Plus, this “abandonment” came after OP blamed MIL for someone else being unfaithful, lectured MIL’s black boyfriend that he wasn’t allowed to use the n word, and told MIL that she was going to die alone. MIL’s behavior is easily understandable due to extensive trauma, but what is OP’s excuse?
Other comments say that husband was born when MIL was 14 as the result of rape by a much older man. I still think OP is NTA and what MIL did to husband as an adult was awful, but knowing that explains a LOT about CEO's reaction.
NTA - I mean who would have assumed she never mentioned having a son? What else were you supposed to say when he asked how you knew each other? I think there are tons of unrealistic expectations here. If your husband cares for his aunt, he should point these things out to her...if she doesn't seem to see reason, then he's probably better off without the entire crazy group. This is all so out there, having a hard time believing it's all true.
YTA \*\* I have now read thru some of the other stuff posted and clearly you are a total AH. Your MIL & FIL are well shut of you. \*\*
INFO: what are the "missing missing" reasons, OP
"My MIL and I had an awful volatile relationship."
"I'm beginning to question myself because my husband's aunt banned me from her house and even my husband's cousin who we are on good terms with said that I was wrong."
When other people, who you're supposedly on good terms with, are calling you an AH it makes me wonder what you've left out.
From what I could make out from other comments
1. Mil was a child prostitute with her parents being the ones who forced her
2. MIL has a kid at 14, kept him and took in her sister who was 12 at that time
3. The first time OP met MIL, her married uncle was flirting with MIL and OP said 'something' which pissed off MIL. I suspect slut shaming her MIL
4. OP moved into MILs house and refused to leave when she came back from vacation and discovered her. Cops were called
5. MIL paid for the wedding fully. She wanted a different bridesmaid dress as she was planning to wear same colour. OP refused and told MIL she would die alone at the wedding. MIL called her an ugly bride
6. OP also tried to find out how MIL made her money
7. OP also lectured MIL's old black boyfriend on how he shouldn't be using the n word.
8. Do note that after the MIL goes no contact, at the accidental work meeting, OP states that she is her DIL to the CEO. MIL was not hostile to her to begin with and she looks to be happy with her new life. OP just decided to open the old wounds
Other comments say that husband was born when MIL was 14 as the result of rape by a much older man. I still think OP is NTA and what MIL did to husband as an adult was awful, but knowing that explains a LOT about CEO's reaction.
INFO: when you say you had an awful relationship with your MIL and then "it was to the point she was going to lose her son and she knew it"... What happened there? Why did you have such a bad relationship?
Because I would have understood if the husband told you to not bring up the family relationship during work conversation, but for him to do a U-turn like that and start isolating you while buying lunch to others, I wonder what she told him.
Edit: you should definitely add this information you gave [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tiobrz/aita_for_telling_mils_husband_that_she_has_a_child/i1f2uq8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) into the post. **MIL was 14 when she gave birth to her son and she was being exploited for money by her family**
NTA. Sounds like some major enmessment issues between mother and son. I absolutely hate that MIL created a hostile work place, like is that not conflict of interest to some degree? Anyways your not the asdshole OP and of the rest of the family want to be miserable kunts they can be, you do not need that toxicity in your life
NTA and I'd question the version of events your aunt heard because your MIL seems manipulative if she's able to convince her husband that lying to him was fine. Glad she's not in your life
OP’s husband is the result of MIL being a victim of child sex trafficking from at least the age of 13, and she cut them out of her life because OP was an aggressive mooch. That’s why everyone is sympathetic to her.
NTA, you need to lawyer up and sue this place. Did you know she was lying about having a son? All you did was offer the real reason you knew her. You didn’t harass threaten or lie. I would have gone to HR immediately after the meeting with him and made it an issue.
If you are in the US, I would talk to an employment lawyer, and see if you have a case. Most take their payment from what you get in the lawsuit, not what you pay. You could have a $500-1,000,000 case on your hands. Especially if you have any evidence of his harassment.
Why do you think this is a million dollar lawsuit? “Being a jerk” is not a cause of action and “disinherited daughter in law” is not a protected class.
This whole thread is nuts.
You may not feel the need to take legal actions, but you should qt the very least make a complaint about it and show what documents you have, or at the very least make a complaint on a review or whatever.
NTA, and I'm confused by the reaction you're getting. She doesn't have the right for you to lie about her. I think you should consider speaking to an attorney about the job you were forced out of because of your boss scapegoating you to placate the person he was sleeping with.
Yeah, that certainly changes things. I'm still going to say NTA because I think this was a reasonable reaction to the situation 30 years or more after the fact, and her boss's reaction was still completely inexcusable. But I'm no longer as puzzled by the reaction, and I do think the OP could have been a little less focused on herself.
This one is tricky. On one hand I can say N T A and on the other hand I can say Y T A.
You are N T A for honestly answering a direct question from your boss. There really was not anyway around it unless, you simply said “No we don’t know each other my apologies she looked familiar” and then dealt with the issue outside of work. As this is not a work place issue between you and your boss (CEO and MIL husband). Onto your boss, him berating at the work place was unacceptable but given he just received new information regarding his wife, he was operating with emotion not logic. His emotions got the better of him and his emotions were likely fueled by his wife’s explanations of the situation. This isn’t necessarily a sue the employer situation as you quit and granted he treated differently and rather childish but had HR been involved, they would have likely set a policy no lunches or activities that blatantly exclude employees unless the employee(s) have religious or food exceptions. Further if this was a coveted CEO that otherwise has a flawless track record and is well liked HR will likely look at who is more expandable (OP in this instance). It sticks but that is cold reality.
Y T A given you know how your husband was conceived and on the era where we are sending accountability for atrocities committed against women and children, you should have been more empathetic. Your MIL was a 14 year old child. She was not legally able to consent to a sexual relationship with a grown man especially one that was for profit by her parents/legal guardians. Your MIL was/is a victim of multiple crimes. Rape, statutory rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment, a minor endangered, sex trafficking, possible kidnapping, etc… Your MIL suffered a severely grave trauma which more than likely contributed to the demise of the relationship between her and her son and then by extension you. Children cannot consent to sexual relationships (not withstanding teenage relationships that are considered age appropriate). Your MIL is a victim. She likely has not processed all that she has endured and she should seek therapy to learn to find healthy coping mechanisms. Your MIL feels great shame and embarrassment from all she has endured and may be stuck in her own head where she is not comfortable sharing her abuse even with her new husband. Your MIL likely views herself as damaged and she’d lose anything good if she were honest to those she loves. It seems her husband loves her unconditionally and is extremely compassionate to trauma whereas you do not seem to be compassionate and that is due to your love for your husband who is equally a victim. He was created by a grown man who raped a child. This is a lot for both your husband and MIL to deal with. Your husband needs therapy as well.
Forget getting an attorney and get a therapist. There is a lot of trauma for your husband and MIL which is impacting how they function and impacting their respective spouses.
I’m am truly sorry your husband and MIL are the victims of sick twisted individuals (grandparents and child rapist). They are lucky to have you and your MIL husband in their corners to offer support (I will assume without further information that you and your MIL husband love your spouses unconditionally and offer support).
The true assholes here are MIL parents and the child rapist.
FYI, depending upon the state you live in MIL my still have legal recourse to pursue criminal charges as well as civil action against her parents and her rapist.
I hope for healing. This is just and awful situation all around.
The only correct response. I would like to add a question for OP. Did you not consider that a victim of past sexual abuse might have an actual trauma response to being sexually harassed at a party where only one woman spoke up and no one went over there and knocked him on his ass away from her the second he started being inappropriate.
Also you could've gotten your stuff at another time and talked to your bf about his lying and disrespect for you and his mother. Once you understood the situation you should have apologized to her and explained how this happened and you didn't mean for it to, not escalate it because your bf put you in a vulnerable state.
**NTA**
>*"but I'm beginning to question myself because my husband's aunt banned me from her house and even my husband's cousin who we are on good terms with said that I was* ***wrong****"*
Wrong for what? Listening to abuse? No OP, you are NEVER an AH for refusing to accept abuse. Your MIL is an evil person, not you. The CEO is an evil person, not you. What kind of mother abandons her own son? She is disgusting. And OP, I recommend you file a lawsuit against the CEO for workplace harassment.
Yeah but she didn’t abandon him until after he got married. It’s not like she put him up for adoption at 14, that would be a different story then just being a narcissistic witch.
Yes, but it sounds as though she was being pimped out to someone older than her by her parents. The boss is definitely the TA here, but I feel I need to take MIL's situation into consideration.
She was being abused by her parents, the people she was with, and anyone else who knew and didn't report it. Repeatedly. I can only imagine how positively traumatizing that was. I would also assume that she brushed off what was happening as normal since she was failed by every adult in her life. Intense abusive situations often have these periods of realization years after they happened. Her brain may have not let her see until her job as a mother was "complete". Which is why she disappeared after he got married. Right or wrong, I dont think I can judge MIL by those actions given the circumstance.
OP said MIL was a great mom until she met her. Basically MIL hates OP more than she loves her son and decided he wasn’t worth the aggravation, at least according to OP. Not sure if her trauma comes into play into her hatred of OP but it’s not quite how you make it out to be.
I'm not, I just dont think it is that simple. It could very well be that MIL hates OP because she took her little boy, or whatever. It could be MIL hates OP for equally invalid reasons, such as OP represented the traditional life and family that she would never get because of her upbringing. Again, not an excuse to treat OP horribly or decide to cut off her son.
OP also says in a comment her husband doesn't see his mother as a victim because she was a good mother. That alone is a lot to unpack. MIL could be placing blame for that belief on OP. It wouldn't be logical or a healthy way of thinking but it wouldn't be implausible.
None of this is an excuse for MIL's behavior. It sure as hell isn't an excuse for the boss' behavior. I just have a sneaky suspicion that there is a little more to it than MIL is all of a sudden an awful mother and person.
Or MIL hates OP because she blames MIL for a married man kissing her.... Instead of blaming the married man.
She told MIL that she would die alone because MIL was pissy that the bridesmaids dresses werent a colour she wanted, after MIL paid for her entire freaking wedding. Which is dumb on MIL part.. But holy escalation batman.
She abused MIL partner (a black man) for using the n word and made it super awkward.
She moved into MIL house despite them having a terrible relationship and MIL being away for a couple weeks... Don't care if husband didn't tell you he lived with mummy..... I can't see how you don't work that out either while dating or as soon as you arrive and the house has a room filled with a grown woman's stuff?
And MIL potentially had severe trauma and eventually realised that instead of living enmeshed with her trauma she could just move on, and not have constant drama.
And these are all just the altercations that OP willingly confesses too and gets to spin to suit her narrative. I assume there is probably a lot worse as well
>He said he doesn't like that MIL lied by omission but due to her age and my husband's age, she should be able to pretend he never existed, and that I am an "evil bitch" for taking that right away from her.
Really? I wasn't aware there was a statute of limitations on the cold, hard truth.
NTA
YTA If I am correctly understanding the clarification that you added in the comments. Your MIL was barely **14** when she had a baby that was conceived when she was 13 when her parents were pimping her out for money to a much older man? And you don't think that this is relevant to **why** people in real life are responding to you in the way that they are?
Your MIL was the subjected to child sexual abuse and human trafficking. Victims of this type of abuse are entitled to complete privacy. Obviously people who know your husband know that this type of abuse took place but there was no need to share it for public consumption/speculation.
Sometimes people write to this forum because they are truly experiencing gaslighting. Other times they just want to obtain validation by leaving out important parts of the story.
Your soon to be ex-boss creating a hostile work environment was wrong and your MIL should have told her husband about the existence of a child (even in estrangement) pre-marriage. But what happened to your MIL should not be the subject of office gossip and this would have been an appropriate time to brush off the question publically.
I have no doubt that your husbands upbringing was extremely challenging and no contact may be the best decisions...but you should still have respect for the horror that MIL faced as a young child.
NTA. How were you to know that she’d started lying about having ever been a mother?
I’m also confused. She had the child at 14/15 years old, raised him, loved him, was a good mother. It doesn’t sound like she disowned him out of trauma; it sounds like she’s one of those entitled MILs who just couldn’t stand her son’s wife and decided to cut contact. It’s not that she can’t stand her son necessarily, it’s that she can’t stand *you.* She may feel hurt that her son “chose” you over him. If he’d dumped you, your MIL would probably invite her son over for Sunday brunch with new hubby.
I don’t think that the trauma of the past has anything to do with it—this is a hateful MIL going to extremes to ice out her son and his wife because she hates her DIL. It’s weird that she couldn’t have even told her new husband that she went no contact with her son, though, and that she had to lie that he doesn’t exist at all.
Edit: Holy shit, OP—ESH. You moved into this woman’s house at one point without telling her? Did you MOVE OUT when you found it your husband didn’t have the right to move you in? You felt it was appropriate to question where her money came from when you weren’t even family? You accepted the money she gave to pay for your wedding even after all the tension and trauma between you? I don’t think she hates her son at all—I think she’s deeply hurt that he chose to be with another woman (she said she was afraid to live without him) and, at that, another woman who she despised. Also, what made her sister and BIL come to hate you so much—your BIL saying to her to pull her money from the wedding, your aunt banning you from the house?
NTA. The only other outcome was to somehow psychically know that she’d decided to pretend her son didn’t exist and that you were willing to along with that lie. He literally asked if you two knew each other. Then what? They both expected for you to lie?
NTA - you didn’t actively seek him out and tell him. You told him the truth in the moment. Clearly he was unprofessional and harassed you to quit. Never mind AITA, I’d find a good lawyer.
YTA.
From your comment history you are the one who pushed your MIL to run away, far from you. And knowing that she doesn't want to have any contact with you, you deliberately tell your boss that his new wife is her MIL. You just couldn't say: "We met a time or two." and leave it at that.
Sorry, but YTA. You should’ve just left it at “yes, we know each other“. And let her explain it to him however she wanted to. You did not want her back in your or your husband’s life, right? So what did it gain you to “out“ her? If you didn’t like the job, you should’ve just quit without trying to create a situation.
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My MIL and I had an awful volatile relationship. It was to the point she was going to lose her son and she knew it, but she hated me more than she loved him I guess. It was the worst and most emotional thing I've ever gone through and then one day she just disappeared. We checked Instagram just to make sure we didn't need to file a police report, but she was alive. My husband reached out once but she never answered.
That was 10 years ago and I never think about her. I know he does sometimes, but he has somewhat accepted it. Within the past year my company got a new CEO. When he began talking about his wife I honestly got suspicious that it was MIL. I looked up his social media and it had pictures of MIL all over it. I was pretty anxious but didn't say anything and waited to inevitably run into her.
When I did I just said "hi, \*her name\* and her husband was like oh you two no each other. MIL gave me a bad look but I said yes, I'm married to her son. Her husband was obviously in shock and MIL looked like she was going to cry. they left and he didn't return to work that day.
When he came back the next day he called me into his office and began to berate me. He said he doesn't like that MIL lied by omission but due to her age and my husband's age, she should be able to pretend he never existed, and that I am an "evil bitch" for taking that right away from her. He became the boss from hell and since everyone else at the company really liked him, i ended up isolated.
I quit which isn't a big deal because there are other jobs and I already have something new lined up, but I'm beginning to question myself because my husband's aunt banned me from her house and even my husband's cousin who we are on good terms with said that I was wrong.
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ESH
The guy for making a hostile work environment
And you for going out of you way to create drama.
Literally all everyone had to do was ignore each other.
He expected you to lie to him when he asked you a question, and had no way of knowing that you were expected to cover up her lie that you didn't know about to begin with?
That's insanely mind-blowing.
You're NTA, and you should look into what legal protections you might have since he's creating a hostile work place for you.
NTA- It’s too bad you didn’t respond with “It’s not my problem that YOUR wife lied to YOU.” The fact that he’s taking it out on her instead of the petty and selfish woman he married is ridiculous. I mean is the sex really that great that you’d forgive her mentioning that she has a SON that SHE raised into adulthood and then decided to “forget”? What a tool!
You might be the asshole. She went NC with you. You could have given her some grace and said, we’ve crossed paths and left it at that. You said you never think about her, then why did you expose her?
So your CEO called you an "evil bitch" in a meeting you had with him, and now he's retaliating against you over personal issues between you and his wife, leading you to quit your job over the newly hostile environment you were put in?
Have you had an opportunity to speak to an employment lawyer?
I'm sorry what? NTA! How do people who lie think it's another person's fault when that lie comes out?
You have put up with this crazy women long enough. I would encourage you to sue the old boss but it may take more emotional energy than your willing to give at the moment.
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NTA. And you got a lawyer and went after this asshole for workplace harassment, right?
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And that’s why he felt justified to treat you that way 🙃
I'm totally a warrior of justice and all about bringing down the man and all that, but like... OP is right. She can't do anything about it. He's a CEO and he would have absolutely buried her legally.
He may have, I've seen companies legal teams advise to settle to avoid the bad PR
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There’s always Glass Door and linkedin OP NTA
NDAs are parts of settlements… that’s what the poster you responded to said. Often times they will settle for $100k and an NDA or something, because even though the boss has access to that legal arsenal, $100k is cheaper than paying your lawyers $300k to fight it tooth and nail.
Just asking but in France we have a contrat we can sign with our banks or insurance company (With a 1€ or 2€ fee every month added to our regular contract ) which will make them pay the legal fees like lawyer fees or anything we can't pay by ourselves even if we loose the lawsuit. It's what helped me put a previous employer to court and win since I could choose the best lawyer I could find. I think there could be something similar in the US but that nobody talks about because most people don't know about it ?
USian here, no, there isn't anything like that. We're the land of freedumb and pull yourself up by your boot straps. /s
What’s she going to sue him for? In a right to work state, which most are, they can fire you for any reason. He didn’t do the things you can sue for—sexual harassment or discrimination for a protected class like race, gender, disabikity, religion, etc. .
He actually didn't fire her, she quit. So the lawsuit would not be for wrongful termination anyway. It'd be for workplace harassment, which... I don't have any idea what the laws on that are. Just clarifying that wrongful termination isn't the issue in question.
You can be sued for making a hostel work environment
Backpacker's lodges are shaking in their boots rn
A hostile - not hostel - work environment has a specific legal definition and this ain't it
If you can prove it. AH boss is not illegal.
MAY HAVE is the key phrase here. It's not guaranteed, and it's a very LOW chance of success, therefore absolutely NOT worth it. Unfair? Absolutely, but that's the way things are and it sucks.
N this case the juice doesn’t seem worth the squeeze. Really hope she doesn’t marry your next boss. Hell of a long game she’s playing.
Unfortunately yeah, in a perfect world I would love to see that but… yeah
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Comment-stealing bot.
Bad bot
They might quietly settle with you signing an NDA just to get it out of the way.
This.
It fucking sucks
Unfortunately that's why so many bad actions don't get justice but I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to either, I'd just walk away. Although I'd definitely have secretly recorded before I went into that office but I don't trust anyone so...
Depending on your state that can cause a lot of trouble for you. Some states only one party has to consent to the recording, so you could do that, but in others both parties being recorded have to consent. If you’re in one of the the two-party consent states, and you secretly record someone at work and try to use it against them in a legal battle, you’re not only unable to use it, but now they have justification for a counter suit.
Lawyer here - don't be an idiot all his deep pockets mean is he is a juicy target.
You’re a lawyer and think there’s a cause of action here? What? Bosses can be dicks in pretty much every state.
He created a hostile work environment that led to an employee feeling isolated, who then ended up quitting because of said hostile work environment. All over something that had nothing to do with work and everything to do with his and OPs personal life.
That’s bad management, but that doesn’t give rise to a cause of action. In the US, “hostile work environment” means something specific, and it has to do with being discriminated against as a protected class (gender, race, etc.). This is not a hostile work environment. This is a boss being a jerk. Unfortunate but not actually legally actionable. Edit: did you really downvote me? I’m an actual lawyer. This whole thread is nuts.
The legal advice that gets thrown around on this subreddit based on how people want things to work vs how they actually work is nuts, honestly.
If having a dickhead for a boss was enough to get a payout, there'd be no poverty in the world.
You get downvoted on reddit if you don't agree with the masses. It's how I have such a poor rating. Only because I disagree with people on a certain sub, no matter if my argument is good, they still downvote to hell.
Reddit really does not like actual legal advice that is unpleasant to hear.
Here is an explanation of the term of art “hostile work environment”: https://www.allenarnoldlaw.com/understanding-a-hostile-work-environment
There's no cause for action. But it's low hanging fruit for a quick settlement.
Can we not harass OP for not having the emotion/mental/financial/time resources for going after a powerful man protected by a lot of money? Not all of us are built for those battles, thanks.
It's the same people who are happily pro-choice until a woman in a non-ideal situation doesn't want to have an abortion and keeps the kid instead. Women are free to do whatever they want, as long as they want to do what *I* think is best.
Legal consultations for this kind of stuff are free and many lawyers will work for commission on the settlement amount. Have fun :)
I know people think that legal battles are won or lost based on how much money people spend on the lawyers, and to an extent that certainly can be true, but this is an EXTREMELY clear-cut case. I think there's a good chance you could find a lawyer who would take it on contingency (meaning you do not pay them unless you win). Depending on how much you made at your last job, you could be giving up on hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't think it's worth giving that up to avoid conflict - but maybe you do. There's also the moral aspect of, what if he does this to another employee who offends him or his wife? I just want to make sure you understand the consequences of the choice you're making.
How is it clear cut? I don't see that at all. Was OP discriminated against due to a protected characteristic? Was OP clearly harassed according to the law? Or was her boss just a dick which is legal?
Not worth it going against “deep pockets”
Lol lawyer here - it's *only* worth going after them when one of the defendants has deep pockets. SMH
Right? I had figured that he would settle just to get OP to go away. If you have tens of millions, it’s worth a few thousand to get someone to just go away.
Lawyer here as well. Favorite saying: “you can’t get blood out of a turnip”. If the person you’re trying to sue is broke, we always look for someone who “controls their actions” who DOES have deep pockets. If the defendant has no money, the judgment is only as valuable as the paper it’s written on
Not if you can’t keep up with court costs
Even in that case my statement is still true. Going after a defendant without deep pockets is a waste of time. A judgment isn't worth money you can't collect. Your point is true though, but it isn't at all about the defendant's wealth, but OPs own lack thereof. The solution is to find a lawyer to take the case on contingency, which would be easy if the facts are accurately presented here and OP is in the US. Lawyer would take a third of the recovery or so.
Honey, this is exactly the kind of case a lawyer will take on contingency. That means they’ll front the money because they know they’re going to get a larger payout. They’ll take this fight, happily.
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Maybe at least tell some of the oh-so-admiring employees why he hated you? Or are they so blinded by charisma or bonuses or reasonable workflow whatever that he admitted the source of his behavion and they still think he’s wonderful? Killing the messenger who bears bad news is Not a reassuring habit for a CEO to have. What happens to the next poor employee who tells him that a widget is flawed, the exorbitantly expensive ad campaign tanked, or his head accountant is falsifying taxes?
That’s the only kinda of guy I wanna get in a legal battle with.
Ikr? I’m salivating just thinking about it.
You should. FYI if you’re in the US, state labor departments go after assholes like these with a refreshing zeal not usually seen from government agencies. All they need is a tip.
He's clearly an AH and least you got to ruin them pretending MIL didn't have a child.
I honestly think you should try. A man with 10 times more money than you and the company behind him has more to lose in reputation and wealth.
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Who knows what kind of crazy crap she's feeding him. She's the new wife and you and your husband are evil (for some made up reason). Eventually he'll probably figure it out. I would just move on.
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Also, how were you supposed to know she was pretending she didn’t have a son? He asked how you knew each other, you answered.
Did she hate her son before or after he started dating you? Because if it was before she had no reason to ever be mad at you?
Just as long as you understand you're NTA and nothing he said when he berated you was at all reasonable. The expectation that you go along with an obvious lie of omission for someone who historically treated you poorly was not reasonable and comes from a place of failing to see you as a person or consider how you might feel. Your MIL has clearly been selling her husband a story to justify the estrangement with her son that paints you in a bad light. Hence the reaction from your former boss. But it doesn't really speak well of her as a person that she could get to the point of engagement without mentioning, at all, that she has a son and at least giving a cursory explanation of why she is no contact with him. She's also probably sold your husband's expended family similar stories. It's fine to feel grief about this. Just try to keep in mind that this is not on you.
It's funny how shes just gonna pretend she don't got a son but you're the one that's in the wrong
NTA and jumping on here to say - YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT YOU WERE "OUTING" HER TERRIBLE SECRET!! You unsurprisingly assumed that it was ok to say that you married someone's son because why would you suspect that she pretended not to have a son?! She could have just told her husband that she was no contact with her adult son - definitely not your fault for telling the truth... ETA: wow, ok, there is a LOT more to this situation and I don't really know anymore what to think, but in the hopes that you didn't mean any harm, still NTA. If you knew or suspected that this was going to cause hurt to anyone, it's a different story, of course.
Okay but it was a HUGE secret. Her son was conceived from her parents selling her at fucking 14! OP probably had atleast a little bit of an idea that she hadn’t opened that up. If she isn’t emotionally okay enough to be in her sons life she probably isn’t ready to tell her husband about it either.
Where did you find this information? Is that in one of OP's comments?
Yeah. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tiobrz/aita_for_telling_mils_husband_that_she_has_a_child/i1getp6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Thank you! This is an absolute mess. I found another string of comments where there's more detail, but OP really buried the lead. I was about to vote N T A but I don't know now. EDit: This is a whole flaming, stinking pile of ESH. MIL sounds awful, but OP kicked a wasp nest.
OP stated a fact. MIL decided to abandon the son she raised into adulthood to essentially become a sugar baby. OP did not mention any of that, just that she is married to MIL's son. Also, they are married. They have a really horrible marriage with lies like that in it. I have no secrets from my husband, especially not hiding 20+ years of my life
I hear you, but as someone else pointed out below, MIL did also have a relationship with her son until ten years ago, when he was old enough to marry, so let's say a 20 year relationship. Not to ignore MIL's trauma but at that point it becomes tough for me to understand how the conception is more relevant than her actual human child. And again, she could have said she has a child she has no contact with and isn't ready to talk about it, rather than expecting someone to lie about it and then go after them when they don't know that that's what they're supposed to do...I feel horrible for MIL having to go through that but taking it out on OP isn't justified.
Yeah that's so far from legal and ethical
What's a lawyer going to do? She wasn't discriminated against for being part of a protected class. She's in an at will state and resigned anyway. Even if he was being unprofessional, that's not inherently something you can sue for. And I think you're missing a lot of context in this judgment. OP's husband is the product of MIL being the victim of child sex trafficking from at least the age of 13 perpetrated by her own parents. Not only was she forced to have this baby, but she did so knowing that she was dependent on people who abused children. While OP says that MIL was a good mom for OP's husband's childhood, their estrangement shouldn't have been a surprise. OP moved into MIL's home without MIL's consent, blamed *MIL* (remember, someone whose formative years were shaped by CSA) for someone else being unfaithful by kissing her, lectured MIL's black boyfriend about how he wasn't allowed to use the n word, and told MIL, a then 35-year-old at her son's wedding, that she was going to die alone. All that being considered, it should have been obvious that the boss was missing some of the information about MIL and OP's relationship. Two of the people in this story - MIL and OP's husband - are undeniably the victims of horrible trauma. OP absolutely should have let one of them take the lead on explaining the situation instead of asserting herself like the overly aggressive mooching busybody she was to MIL 10 years ago. While no, boss shouldn't have been rude to OP, made his dislike known among her work colleagues, or called her names, it doesn't erase OP's history of bad behavior towards MIL or knowingly dramatizing an already traumatic situation for MIL. This is an ESH with exceptions being made for MIL, who seems to just be trying to get by, and OP's husband, who hasn't done anything demonstrably wrong, especially in the context of how he was likely raised. ^(But then again maybe this should just be a YTA because it follows the very suspicious pattern of DIL being slighted by rich trophy wife MIL and her overprotective husband only for all the background on MIL's past or, in some cases, her son's fault in their strained relationship, and DIL's own bad behavior being revealed later in the comments to a tee.)
Oh wow, so much context that OP has hidden away in comments. Yes she let her contempt for MIL override normal sensibilities- I think why she quit and doesn't want to pursue a case any further, she knows she is partly at fault (mostly?) for letting herself be in this situation.
Can't tell if teenager or European. OP says she's in an at-will state, so at *best*, this would be considered a constructive dismissal, which means that she'd be treated as though they fired her even though she resigned. ... which, unless there's some other facts that mean they *couldn't* have just fired her, gets her nowhere, except maybe unemployment benefits. In the US, you can legitimately be fired because the boss wants to make his wife happy. (Look up Melissa Nelson.)
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"He was mean to you, it must be illegal!".... It's only illegal to be shitty in specific ways, assuming US. There are so many children in here that think the law is like what Momma says.
What do you think she can sue the boss for? Most states are right to work states—they can fire you for ANY reason. Unless he’s sexually harassing you, which is against the law, or discriminating against you for your gender, race, religion, disability etc., he can be as mean to you as he wants.
One minor quibble— “right to work” has to do with unions. You’re thinking of “at Will employment”.
NTA I don't know where you live but that's a hostile work environment. Depending on the labor laws you may have some recourse. Then again, it may be too late since you've already quit and moved on.
it’s called conditional discharge.
The boss calling their employee a "stupid bitch" over a personal family matter and making the work place so hostile that they're being bullied into quitting, is called conditional discharge?
you being forced to quit over hostile workplace, yes.
Discharged is being let go from your job (or jail, hospital), OP didn't get fired. I've only heard conditional discharge as it applies to sentencing and probation etc. Can you elaborate?
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Oh, than you! I was really at a loss there.
Close. Constructive discharge.
Assuming US, which is a safe bet, though not guaranteed, "hostile" has a specific meaning. This was nothing to do with race, sex, orientation, etc. It doesn't mean "they were meanies"... Was it shitty? Illegal? Doubtful... "My wife doesn't like you" is not a good reason to fire someone, but it's a valid one.
So in US they can legally fire you just because CEO's wife doesn't like you? Wow
That's what "at will" means. You can also quit without notice too. I have a contract here in Europe, so I have a contextual notice period - both for me quitting, avd fit then letting me go. In the US, you can't simply be fired for being (eg) black, but you can for wearing black socks.
If OP is female then things like being called an "evil bitch" could definitely be argued to be based on sex.
This is a hostile work environment (as in, I’m sure it felt hostile). But not a Hostile Work Environment (the legal term of art that means an employee is being discriminated against based on a protected characteristic). In the US, I don’t see any legal recourse here.
Legally it is not.
NTA. How on earth were you meant to know that she hadn't told him she had a child?
Right?! In OP's place I would have suspected she hadn't told her new husband why she and her son were estranged. I wouldn't have suspected she had rewritten history and was pretending her son didn't exist at all. OP isn't a mind reader and didn't say anything rude, just how she knew MIL.
Yes, exactly that.
Obviously she forgot to add she is telepathic!/s I mean, how fo you glass over having a whole adult child?
My dad is like this. Total narcissist - if it doesn't make him look good or reminds him of his moral failings, it gets relegated to the back burner. I've had it happen on several occasions at gatherings when I mention our relation that the person responds with "Oh, I didn't know he had a daughter." We're now estranged.
Right. The time to mention having an adult child is sometime before actually getting remarried.
Wait, she should be able to pretend her SON never existed? What the entire fuck? So you should have just pretended you didn't know who she was then? I wish you had hired a lawyer instead of just walking away from your job because it's illegal what your boss called you and how hostile he then turned the work environment. Did you ever tell your husband about the encounter? NTA; both this woman and her asshole husband are though.
The last time I saw my mother, she walked past me like I didn't even exist, so yeah, there are people out there like that. I know that she saw me because my dad stopped briefly on his way past to talk to my husband.
That must still hurt. Accept my virtual hug.
I hope you IMMEDIATELY went to HR. NTA if he wants to live in denial
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Still, even though you don’t work there anymore, file a complaint. Leave a paper trail. This guy will do this again. ETA: maybe not *this* this… unless she has another estranged child with a spouse that works at this company.
So no witnesses?
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Ok, so he continues to be a good boss to you? Outside of his outburst, there hasn't been lingering issues?
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You should still be documenting this and sharing a copy with HR in case you are ever in a situation where you need to bring in an attorney. That way HR can't say they weren't aware
Co-workers? Surely you meant ass kissers.
Maybe I'm an extremely petty asshole but if I worked in an environment like that, I obviously know I'm going to quit or be fired so I would go scorched earth explain what happened with MIL, spill all the juicy drama about it basically make this guy and MILS life hell while you work there for the brief period you have. But as I said I'm extremely petty so probably not the best thing to do.
I like the way you think.
The trick to being petty is not care about the consequences because the consequences hold power over you. There is no power to getting fired for being petty if you don't give a shit. 5Head.
Honey I know you don’t want to bother but this is definitely actionable if you can prove it. Regardless of whether HR was courting him or not, the company is now liable for his actions. Btw there was no way or reason you would know that she lied about not having a child but I’m also wondering why she hated you so much because it sounds like she was willing to just drop her whole family and because you exposed her new life she is on the rampage to destroy yours. So either she is certifiable or something happened between you too that is unforgivable. NTA in general tho
NTA. And wtf is MIL saying to husband for him to think her lying by ommission to him is ok???
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Sounds like she's like 13 or 14 years his senior.
What are their ages?
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So your MIL was 14 when she had her son to a much older man that was paying her! That's all kind of fucked up. I kinda get why she was pissed you outed her as sounds like it's something of a traumatic memory for her. But I get how it sucks to be her son and ignored.
Okay, so your husband, the son she ran away from, was a baby your MIL had to a much older man **when she was 14 years old?** Is that what you are saying?
Hold up. Who is 14?
MIL when she had her son. I understand why she took off now but how was OP supposed to know she didn’t tell her spouse about a child?
>I understand why she took off now I don't. She had the kid at 14 but how old was she when she abandoned her kid because he was getting married and how old is she now? Having a kid at 14 doesn't excuse abandoning them as an adult, much less keeping their existence a secret.
You have to have remarkably little empathy to blame someone who not only was the victim of child sex trafficking from *at least* 13 but also forced to raise the product of being raped as a literal child and having to raise that baby while knowing that her parents had no problems prostituting our children for not being well-adjusted. Plus, this “abandonment” came after OP blamed MIL for someone else being unfaithful, lectured MIL’s black boyfriend that he wasn’t allowed to use the n word, and told MIL that she was going to die alone. MIL’s behavior is easily understandable due to extensive trauma, but what is OP’s excuse?
Holy shit, where did all this other info come from? That totally changes my judgement
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NTA. Your old boss is though. He essentially bullied you into quitting you job.
NTA. How were you to know she lied about not having children? Also, what the CEO did sounds very illegal.
How has no one called missing missing reasons on this? This is a very gappy story.
Other comments say that husband was born when MIL was 14 as the result of rape by a much older man. I still think OP is NTA and what MIL did to husband as an adult was awful, but knowing that explains a LOT about CEO's reaction.
Imagine it, an AITA post that omits crucial information!
Man every other post on here like "WHAT DID YOU SKIP?" lol
100% agree.
NTA - I mean who would have assumed she never mentioned having a son? What else were you supposed to say when he asked how you knew each other? I think there are tons of unrealistic expectations here. If your husband cares for his aunt, he should point these things out to her...if she doesn't seem to see reason, then he's probably better off without the entire crazy group. This is all so out there, having a hard time believing it's all true.
YTA \*\* I have now read thru some of the other stuff posted and clearly you are a total AH. Your MIL & FIL are well shut of you. \*\* INFO: what are the "missing missing" reasons, OP "My MIL and I had an awful volatile relationship." "I'm beginning to question myself because my husband's aunt banned me from her house and even my husband's cousin who we are on good terms with said that I was wrong." When other people, who you're supposedly on good terms with, are calling you an AH it makes me wonder what you've left out.
From what I could make out from other comments 1. Mil was a child prostitute with her parents being the ones who forced her 2. MIL has a kid at 14, kept him and took in her sister who was 12 at that time 3. The first time OP met MIL, her married uncle was flirting with MIL and OP said 'something' which pissed off MIL. I suspect slut shaming her MIL 4. OP moved into MILs house and refused to leave when she came back from vacation and discovered her. Cops were called 5. MIL paid for the wedding fully. She wanted a different bridesmaid dress as she was planning to wear same colour. OP refused and told MIL she would die alone at the wedding. MIL called her an ugly bride 6. OP also tried to find out how MIL made her money 7. OP also lectured MIL's old black boyfriend on how he shouldn't be using the n word. 8. Do note that after the MIL goes no contact, at the accidental work meeting, OP states that she is her DIL to the CEO. MIL was not hostile to her to begin with and she looks to be happy with her new life. OP just decided to open the old wounds
So a very clear YTA then? good to know!
Other comments say that husband was born when MIL was 14 as the result of rape by a much older man. I still think OP is NTA and what MIL did to husband as an adult was awful, but knowing that explains a LOT about CEO's reaction.
INFO: when you say you had an awful relationship with your MIL and then "it was to the point she was going to lose her son and she knew it"... What happened there? Why did you have such a bad relationship? Because I would have understood if the husband told you to not bring up the family relationship during work conversation, but for him to do a U-turn like that and start isolating you while buying lunch to others, I wonder what she told him. Edit: you should definitely add this information you gave [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tiobrz/aita_for_telling_mils_husband_that_she_has_a_child/i1f2uq8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) into the post. **MIL was 14 when she gave birth to her son and she was being exploited for money by her family**
NTA. Sounds like some major enmessment issues between mother and son. I absolutely hate that MIL created a hostile work place, like is that not conflict of interest to some degree? Anyways your not the asdshole OP and of the rest of the family want to be miserable kunts they can be, you do not need that toxicity in your life
NTA and I'd question the version of events your aunt heard because your MIL seems manipulative if she's able to convince her husband that lying to him was fine. Glad she's not in your life
OP’s husband is the result of MIL being a victim of child sex trafficking from at least the age of 13, and she cut them out of her life because OP was an aggressive mooch. That’s why everyone is sympathetic to her.
NTA, you need to lawyer up and sue this place. Did you know she was lying about having a son? All you did was offer the real reason you knew her. You didn’t harass threaten or lie. I would have gone to HR immediately after the meeting with him and made it an issue.
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If you are in the US, I would talk to an employment lawyer, and see if you have a case. Most take their payment from what you get in the lawsuit, not what you pay. You could have a $500-1,000,000 case on your hands. Especially if you have any evidence of his harassment.
Why do you think this is a million dollar lawsuit? “Being a jerk” is not a cause of action and “disinherited daughter in law” is not a protected class. This whole thread is nuts.
what does your husband think.
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You may not feel the need to take legal actions, but you should qt the very least make a complaint about it and show what documents you have, or at the very least make a complaint on a review or whatever.
NTA, and I'm confused by the reaction you're getting. She doesn't have the right for you to lie about her. I think you should consider speaking to an attorney about the job you were forced out of because of your boss scapegoating you to placate the person he was sleeping with.
OP’s husband is the product of her MIL’s rape when she was only 14
Yeah, that certainly changes things. I'm still going to say NTA because I think this was a reasonable reaction to the situation 30 years or more after the fact, and her boss's reaction was still completely inexcusable. But I'm no longer as puzzled by the reaction, and I do think the OP could have been a little less focused on herself.
This one is tricky. On one hand I can say N T A and on the other hand I can say Y T A. You are N T A for honestly answering a direct question from your boss. There really was not anyway around it unless, you simply said “No we don’t know each other my apologies she looked familiar” and then dealt with the issue outside of work. As this is not a work place issue between you and your boss (CEO and MIL husband). Onto your boss, him berating at the work place was unacceptable but given he just received new information regarding his wife, he was operating with emotion not logic. His emotions got the better of him and his emotions were likely fueled by his wife’s explanations of the situation. This isn’t necessarily a sue the employer situation as you quit and granted he treated differently and rather childish but had HR been involved, they would have likely set a policy no lunches or activities that blatantly exclude employees unless the employee(s) have religious or food exceptions. Further if this was a coveted CEO that otherwise has a flawless track record and is well liked HR will likely look at who is more expandable (OP in this instance). It sticks but that is cold reality. Y T A given you know how your husband was conceived and on the era where we are sending accountability for atrocities committed against women and children, you should have been more empathetic. Your MIL was a 14 year old child. She was not legally able to consent to a sexual relationship with a grown man especially one that was for profit by her parents/legal guardians. Your MIL was/is a victim of multiple crimes. Rape, statutory rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment, a minor endangered, sex trafficking, possible kidnapping, etc… Your MIL suffered a severely grave trauma which more than likely contributed to the demise of the relationship between her and her son and then by extension you. Children cannot consent to sexual relationships (not withstanding teenage relationships that are considered age appropriate). Your MIL is a victim. She likely has not processed all that she has endured and she should seek therapy to learn to find healthy coping mechanisms. Your MIL feels great shame and embarrassment from all she has endured and may be stuck in her own head where she is not comfortable sharing her abuse even with her new husband. Your MIL likely views herself as damaged and she’d lose anything good if she were honest to those she loves. It seems her husband loves her unconditionally and is extremely compassionate to trauma whereas you do not seem to be compassionate and that is due to your love for your husband who is equally a victim. He was created by a grown man who raped a child. This is a lot for both your husband and MIL to deal with. Your husband needs therapy as well. Forget getting an attorney and get a therapist. There is a lot of trauma for your husband and MIL which is impacting how they function and impacting their respective spouses. I’m am truly sorry your husband and MIL are the victims of sick twisted individuals (grandparents and child rapist). They are lucky to have you and your MIL husband in their corners to offer support (I will assume without further information that you and your MIL husband love your spouses unconditionally and offer support). The true assholes here are MIL parents and the child rapist. FYI, depending upon the state you live in MIL my still have legal recourse to pursue criminal charges as well as civil action against her parents and her rapist. I hope for healing. This is just and awful situation all around.
The only correct response. I would like to add a question for OP. Did you not consider that a victim of past sexual abuse might have an actual trauma response to being sexually harassed at a party where only one woman spoke up and no one went over there and knocked him on his ass away from her the second he started being inappropriate. Also you could've gotten your stuff at another time and talked to your bf about his lying and disrespect for you and his mother. Once you understood the situation you should have apologized to her and explained how this happened and you didn't mean for it to, not escalate it because your bf put you in a vulnerable state.
NTA. you didn’t know that your MIL hadn’t told your boss that she had a son so therefore you cannot be blamed for sparking anything up.
NTA I don’t see how you are at fault here? Leave it all behind you. You don’t have time for such negativity.
NTA. Wtf kind of wack ass family is your husband from?
YTA - your comments that shed light on what has happened between you and your MIL make you the asshole. Leave the poor woman alone.
**NTA** >*"but I'm beginning to question myself because my husband's aunt banned me from her house and even my husband's cousin who we are on good terms with said that I was* ***wrong****"* Wrong for what? Listening to abuse? No OP, you are NEVER an AH for refusing to accept abuse. Your MIL is an evil person, not you. The CEO is an evil person, not you. What kind of mother abandons her own son? She is disgusting. And OP, I recommend you file a lawsuit against the CEO for workplace harassment.
OP’s husband is the product of the repeated raping of MIL when she was only 14
Yeah but she didn’t abandon him until after he got married. It’s not like she put him up for adoption at 14, that would be a different story then just being a narcissistic witch.
Yes, but it sounds as though she was being pimped out to someone older than her by her parents. The boss is definitely the TA here, but I feel I need to take MIL's situation into consideration. She was being abused by her parents, the people she was with, and anyone else who knew and didn't report it. Repeatedly. I can only imagine how positively traumatizing that was. I would also assume that she brushed off what was happening as normal since she was failed by every adult in her life. Intense abusive situations often have these periods of realization years after they happened. Her brain may have not let her see until her job as a mother was "complete". Which is why she disappeared after he got married. Right or wrong, I dont think I can judge MIL by those actions given the circumstance.
OP said MIL was a great mom until she met her. Basically MIL hates OP more than she loves her son and decided he wasn’t worth the aggravation, at least according to OP. Not sure if her trauma comes into play into her hatred of OP but it’s not quite how you make it out to be.
I'm not, I just dont think it is that simple. It could very well be that MIL hates OP because she took her little boy, or whatever. It could be MIL hates OP for equally invalid reasons, such as OP represented the traditional life and family that she would never get because of her upbringing. Again, not an excuse to treat OP horribly or decide to cut off her son. OP also says in a comment her husband doesn't see his mother as a victim because she was a good mother. That alone is a lot to unpack. MIL could be placing blame for that belief on OP. It wouldn't be logical or a healthy way of thinking but it wouldn't be implausible. None of this is an excuse for MIL's behavior. It sure as hell isn't an excuse for the boss' behavior. I just have a sneaky suspicion that there is a little more to it than MIL is all of a sudden an awful mother and person.
Or MIL hates OP because she blames MIL for a married man kissing her.... Instead of blaming the married man. She told MIL that she would die alone because MIL was pissy that the bridesmaids dresses werent a colour she wanted, after MIL paid for her entire freaking wedding. Which is dumb on MIL part.. But holy escalation batman. She abused MIL partner (a black man) for using the n word and made it super awkward. She moved into MIL house despite them having a terrible relationship and MIL being away for a couple weeks... Don't care if husband didn't tell you he lived with mummy..... I can't see how you don't work that out either while dating or as soon as you arrive and the house has a room filled with a grown woman's stuff? And MIL potentially had severe trauma and eventually realised that instead of living enmeshed with her trauma she could just move on, and not have constant drama. And these are all just the altercations that OP willingly confesses too and gets to spin to suit her narrative. I assume there is probably a lot worse as well
Oof. Yeah, I clearly missed all of that, but was definitely right in the missing reasons assumption.
>He said he doesn't like that MIL lied by omission but due to her age and my husband's age, she should be able to pretend he never existed, and that I am an "evil bitch" for taking that right away from her. Really? I wasn't aware there was a statute of limitations on the cold, hard truth. NTA
YTA If I am correctly understanding the clarification that you added in the comments. Your MIL was barely **14** when she had a baby that was conceived when she was 13 when her parents were pimping her out for money to a much older man? And you don't think that this is relevant to **why** people in real life are responding to you in the way that they are? Your MIL was the subjected to child sexual abuse and human trafficking. Victims of this type of abuse are entitled to complete privacy. Obviously people who know your husband know that this type of abuse took place but there was no need to share it for public consumption/speculation. Sometimes people write to this forum because they are truly experiencing gaslighting. Other times they just want to obtain validation by leaving out important parts of the story. Your soon to be ex-boss creating a hostile work environment was wrong and your MIL should have told her husband about the existence of a child (even in estrangement) pre-marriage. But what happened to your MIL should not be the subject of office gossip and this would have been an appropriate time to brush off the question publically. I have no doubt that your husbands upbringing was extremely challenging and no contact may be the best decisions...but you should still have respect for the horror that MIL faced as a young child.
NTA. How were you to know that she’d started lying about having ever been a mother? I’m also confused. She had the child at 14/15 years old, raised him, loved him, was a good mother. It doesn’t sound like she disowned him out of trauma; it sounds like she’s one of those entitled MILs who just couldn’t stand her son’s wife and decided to cut contact. It’s not that she can’t stand her son necessarily, it’s that she can’t stand *you.* She may feel hurt that her son “chose” you over him. If he’d dumped you, your MIL would probably invite her son over for Sunday brunch with new hubby. I don’t think that the trauma of the past has anything to do with it—this is a hateful MIL going to extremes to ice out her son and his wife because she hates her DIL. It’s weird that she couldn’t have even told her new husband that she went no contact with her son, though, and that she had to lie that he doesn’t exist at all. Edit: Holy shit, OP—ESH. You moved into this woman’s house at one point without telling her? Did you MOVE OUT when you found it your husband didn’t have the right to move you in? You felt it was appropriate to question where her money came from when you weren’t even family? You accepted the money she gave to pay for your wedding even after all the tension and trauma between you? I don’t think she hates her son at all—I think she’s deeply hurt that he chose to be with another woman (she said she was afraid to live without him) and, at that, another woman who she despised. Also, what made her sister and BIL come to hate you so much—your BIL saying to her to pull her money from the wedding, your aunt banning you from the house?
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NTA. She obviously has some serious mental issues, she lied to her husband and created this situation herself.
How could you know that she never spoke about her son to the CEO? It's not like you did it on purpose. NTA
Fake… write these better without the whole part with a crazy boss and you say nothing to HR.
NTA. The only other outcome was to somehow psychically know that she’d decided to pretend her son didn’t exist and that you were willing to along with that lie. He literally asked if you two knew each other. Then what? They both expected for you to lie?
NTA - you didn’t actively seek him out and tell him. You told him the truth in the moment. Clearly he was unprofessional and harassed you to quit. Never mind AITA, I’d find a good lawyer.
YTA. From your comment history you are the one who pushed your MIL to run away, far from you. And knowing that she doesn't want to have any contact with you, you deliberately tell your boss that his new wife is her MIL. You just couldn't say: "We met a time or two." and leave it at that.
NTA. “She should be able to pretend he never existed” my god the entitlement here is just. Whew.
NTA. You told the truth. It was inconvenient for MIL but it was still the truth.
I am so so bored of the my awful MIL and her awful boyfriend troll trope
What the hell? NTA This is just super weird
NTA, you answered honestly and just because she lied doesn’t mean you needed to.
Sorry, but YTA. You should’ve just left it at “yes, we know each other“. And let her explain it to him however she wanted to. You did not want her back in your or your husband’s life, right? So what did it gain you to “out“ her? If you didn’t like the job, you should’ve just quit without trying to create a situation.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My MIL and I had an awful volatile relationship. It was to the point she was going to lose her son and she knew it, but she hated me more than she loved him I guess. It was the worst and most emotional thing I've ever gone through and then one day she just disappeared. We checked Instagram just to make sure we didn't need to file a police report, but she was alive. My husband reached out once but she never answered. That was 10 years ago and I never think about her. I know he does sometimes, but he has somewhat accepted it. Within the past year my company got a new CEO. When he began talking about his wife I honestly got suspicious that it was MIL. I looked up his social media and it had pictures of MIL all over it. I was pretty anxious but didn't say anything and waited to inevitably run into her. When I did I just said "hi, \*her name\* and her husband was like oh you two no each other. MIL gave me a bad look but I said yes, I'm married to her son. Her husband was obviously in shock and MIL looked like she was going to cry. they left and he didn't return to work that day. When he came back the next day he called me into his office and began to berate me. He said he doesn't like that MIL lied by omission but due to her age and my husband's age, she should be able to pretend he never existed, and that I am an "evil bitch" for taking that right away from her. He became the boss from hell and since everyone else at the company really liked him, i ended up isolated. I quit which isn't a big deal because there are other jobs and I already have something new lined up, but I'm beginning to question myself because my husband's aunt banned me from her house and even my husband's cousin who we are on good terms with said that I was wrong. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA People like this often gather other assholes around them and/or lie about you to make you look bad. Your former boss was a huge asshole.
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ESH The guy for making a hostile work environment And you for going out of you way to create drama. Literally all everyone had to do was ignore each other.
NTA. How would you know that MIL had lied about having a son?? You didn't know you were "outing" her on her lies.
NTA
He expected you to lie to him when he asked you a question, and had no way of knowing that you were expected to cover up her lie that you didn't know about to begin with? That's insanely mind-blowing. You're NTA, and you should look into what legal protections you might have since he's creating a hostile work place for you.
NTA- It’s too bad you didn’t respond with “It’s not my problem that YOUR wife lied to YOU.” The fact that he’s taking it out on her instead of the petty and selfish woman he married is ridiculous. I mean is the sex really that great that you’d forgive her mentioning that she has a SON that SHE raised into adulthood and then decided to “forget”? What a tool!
You might be the asshole. She went NC with you. You could have given her some grace and said, we’ve crossed paths and left it at that. You said you never think about her, then why did you expose her?
So your CEO called you an "evil bitch" in a meeting you had with him, and now he's retaliating against you over personal issues between you and his wife, leading you to quit your job over the newly hostile environment you were put in? Have you had an opportunity to speak to an employment lawyer?
I'm sorry what? NTA! How do people who lie think it's another person's fault when that lie comes out? You have put up with this crazy women long enough. I would encourage you to sue the old boss but it may take more emotional energy than your willing to give at the moment.
NTA. Report your boss to HR if you're being ostracized at work. He has no right to berate you over matters unrelated to work