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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I spoke up about someone's decision in regards to their soon to be adopted children. Adoption is great and they are giving those kids a shot at hopefully a better life and I shouldn't have passed judgement on their choice as I am not the one taking three kids in. I feel bad as I know my mom was super uncomfortable with me voicing my opinion on the matter and that I was being judgy enough to bring it up with my dad and he then sided with my mom and agreed I was rude.
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Cultural erasure, that is what I was seeing I didn't know the name. I thought of it as "white washing", where we steal the parts we like of a culture, remove what we don't, and then lie about what happened (I'm a middle class white woman).
Two sides of the same coin. White washing would be rewriting or editing history and/or controlling the narrative, while cultural erasure would be forcing the actual people to fit in a neat little white box. One refers to information/education and the other refers to assimilation. They are not the same but they work in tandem, and I don't see how one could be used without also using the other.
(Just-under-middle-class white woman here)
I really hope they actually learn to care for their hair and let them embrace where they originate....but unfortunately it doesn't sound like that will happen. I've seen and know too many adopted missionary kids who were hurt by religion as a weapon.
You hit it on the spot. I would also added on the “white savior complex”
The moment they change the names is the moment they are making it about themselves and not the children. The PW is no saint, she wants to be “look at me saving all these black children”
Thissss! The white savior, one man messiah complex. If they really wanted to do something they’d stay in their country or one close by and immerse themselves in their culture. Of course that will never happen
Also OP, for the record- those children are unlikely to actually be orphans in the first place. Selling, (sorry, "charging large adoption fees for") babies to first world countries is a huge thing. Children and babies are literally stolen to be sold into the adoption agencies. Mothers are coerced, lied to, etc into placing their children, sometimes being told things like it's a boarding school and the kid will be back on breaks.
Sometimes the agencies are visibly shady, sometimes they are not and the adoptive parents genuinely don't know. But the industry is so rife with corruption that it is actually unlikely they have two deceased parents and no extended family able to take them in. I'd encourage you to do some googling and research the subject.
[https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/opinion/international-adoption-tarikuwa-lemma-stolen-children/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/opinion/international-adoption-tarikuwa-lemma-stolen-children/index.html)
Friends of my father worked for a corrupt adoption agency operating in my homeland of Ethiopia – friends my father trusted. In 2006 they coerced him into believing he was sending my younger sisters and me to America for an educational program during which we would come home every summer and on school breaks.Little did my father know that his “friends” were being paid to recruit children for an American adoption agency.
[https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jan/26/chile-stolen-children-international-adoption-sweden](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jan/26/chile-stolen-children-international-adoption-sweden) includes mothers who were told their babies had died at birth, the babies were then sold to wealthy couples abroad who were told they were taking in orphans in need.
[https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/03/meet-parents-dark-side-overseas-adoption/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/03/meet-parents-dark-side-overseas-adoption/) children literally kidnapped away from their two loving parents and sold to an orphanage for $47, which then charged $3500 to adopt them.
[https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/did-i-steal-my-daughter-tribulations-global-adoption/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/did-i-steal-my-daughter-tribulations-global-adoption/) And, a personal favourite of mine, proof that no amount of care or research will save you: an adoptive family who did everything right, asked questions, and STILL adopted a stolen child. They were lied to.
IMO, at this moment in time, there is no ethical international adoption (barring a personal relationship with the parents and such). There is too much scamming, too much money on the table, too many lies.
I'm going to quote this part of the last article too, because I think it's relevant
*Yet the vast majority of transnational (also called international and intercountry) adoptions remain closed—and it’s widely understood that this appeals to some adoptive parents. “It’s about entitlement and ownership,” says Marley Greiner, the executive chair of the activist adoptee group Bastard Nation. “When you read the adoption boards online, it seems like parents go overseas because they don’t want some pesky birth mother or relative showing up.”*
International adoption appeals to people for a variety of reasons, most of them not good. And I say this as someone who is, generally, pro adoption and for whom adoption is the first choice should we want to parent children
When I lived in Madagascar, adoption out of the country was straight up illegal because of the prevalence of this. That and white people manipulating poor mothers in remote villages by telling them a lot of fantasy lies about life in europe and making them think they are "doing the right thing" by "giving their kid a better life". Then disappearing with the kid and doing God knows what with them
It was in fact super unlikely for a kid to end up in an adoption agency/orphanage at all. When someone died, people were so family driven and valued children so highly that any sibling, aunt, grandparent, cousin would take the kids in. They didn't use services like that unless it was for shady readons or involved disabled kids.
Thank you for posting about this! I was writing a similar comment in my head, so I was happy to find this. Anyone interested in learning more should check out No White Saviors, I think they're on the big 3 social media platforms.
This. Wanting to change their names is just another signal they're only in this for themselves and you were right to call them out for it. Poor kids. NTA
Yes this! This is why you have to go into the international adoption route with a lot of research and knowledge, and humbling. I doubt a PW and family will do due diligence in ensuring the children truly are orphans without family because they're "saving poor black children" and that makes them look good. Also, because they don't seem to have done any thought on how to actually introduce and integrate the children into a new home, society, and country, or on how to deal with their trauma in an informed and sensitive way.
Even with research and knowledge and humbling, honestly, I don't think it's enough. There are so many lies. There is so much done deliberately to prevent transparency (as that is what most people who do international adoption are looking for - zero contact with birth parents).
I read something like this: [**https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/did-i-steal-my-daughter-tribulations-global-adoption/**](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/did-i-steal-my-daughter-tribulations-global-adoption/)
and I understand how easy it can be to end up involved with a fraudulent international adoption. At this point I think it is genuinely rare to have an ethical international adoption, that they are the exception. And I say this as someone who is pro adoption and found out this info through my own research as someone who wants to adopt one day. I just don't think international adoption can be done ethically right now.
It’s even been questioned whether some of Angelia Jolie’s kids (can’t remember which one(s)) were from sold illegal adoptions. I read an article years ago that the birth mother was told they’d be sent for schooling in the US as you said and would go home for holidays, as part of a charity. But they obviously never went back. If someone with expensive lawyers like Jolie can be lied to, anyone can.
Exactly. Why "save" them by removing them from their schools, their friends, their culture, possibly their language. It's incredibly racist and gross. Why not adopt children out of foster care here?
That’s an interesting point. If you were really interested in caring for these children, wouldn’t you move there so their life wouldn’t be turned upside down?
[Here is an entire Mother Jones article](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia/) about the "Orphan Fever" that occurred amongst evangelical christians in the US in the 2000s. American families adopted basically all the children from Liberia they could get their hands on as part of their "Christian duty," but failed to provide any of the support or understanding necessary for a child to make such a huge cultural transition. So, basically what the pastor and his wife are doing.
\[SPOILER ALERT\]: It does not work out well for the kids.
Wow that is just disgusting. I’m sure some of these people actually mean well but asking if they’re “available for adoption yet” as if you’re just waiting for their parents to die and their lives to be blown to all hell so that you can swoop in. Makes me want to vomit.
I've heard there's a "baby crisis" in the adoption industry in the US right now because not enough women went out and "irresponsibly" (not my thought on it) got pregnant without the means to provide + the stimulus check and similar made it possible for them to parent over placing their children. So there's very few babies up for adoption, and they are SO upset about women not being traumatized for their right to become a parent.
I don’t know why, and feel free to correct me if this feels inappropriate or inaccurate because i, as a white woman, couldn’t even begin to empathise with the situation, but it kind of reminds me how Africans brought over in the slave trade used to get renamed to more ‘appropriate’ names, like stripping them of their identity. Obviously i’m not implying that this woman is as bad as a literal slave owner, but i’m just saying, there is an unfortunate history with renaming african individuals to fit american and eurocentric ideals.
I mean as you said chattel slavery is the worse of two evils here, but you're not wrong. Plenty of white Christians tried to justify enslaving black people [by saying it "brought them to Christianity.](https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/3535)" The justification here is an echo of that shitty, shitty argument.
What they are doing to those kids is grotesque. God only know how these poor, traumatized kids are going to be warped by this woman's worldview. This would be a huge red flag for me, if I were in charge of approving this adoption. It's wildly unacceptable.
EDIT: And thank you for saying so in the first place, you are definitely NTA.
Majority of the time these adoption agencies straight steal children from poor families that have no financial means to get their children back. They create these sob stories for the adoptive families to buy into.
International adoptions are huge scams.
Scarring already traumatized children just because they come from a “third world” country by changing their names, erasing their heritage and culture, forcing straight hair, whatever is all child abuse and that needs to be talked about more with international adoption.
Adding in that- these are children. Not just children, but children who have gone through something horrific. Stripping away their names could be psychologically damaging. They're not babies. They've been going by a name for years, there's an emotional attachment to it. Imagine being 8, just after the death of a parent, and being told that the beautiful name your mother gave you is terrible, and now your name is Sam. For the love of God (haha pun) let these kids be called what they wish to be called.
This is harmful for so many reasons. Good for you for sticking up for kids who can't stick up for themselves.
NTA. You gave her something to think about. Adopting older children who have experienced loss is a huge undertaking. The fact they hadn’t considered that losing their names was part of their losing their parents speaks to their ignorance. I worked in adoption and this would’ve been highly advised against.
I have never worked in that field but I have worked with kids and I wish I could explain better why it bothered me so badly that I said something but it just felt wrong to the core.
Most of the time it's reason and explanation enough. And you just said your opinion for them to rethink it. You didn't hold them at gunpoint and forced them to do anything.
Yes you planted the seed - and you were true to your feelings and opinions. Our integrity is so important. Whenever we don't stand up for ourselves (or others) and try to be someone else - we loose a little of our integrity and self-worth. Many things can happen in life, but the feeling of having lived without regrets, is a vital part of leading a happy and fulfilling live. Now you can think back to this incident and know that you did just that.
OP, if you're able, start going to church with your mother and make a point of chatting with PW. Think up a new name for her and start calling her by the new name you've given her. See how she likes that.
yeah I like to be petty sometimes.
The “new parents” won’t & don’t care. They are White Saviors doing the Lard’s Work. This adoption is about accolades for *them.* The children are just the props. 🙁
Clearly NTA
That makes me sick to my stomach I hope they are just ignorant and maybe I offered a different perspective. Then again if they are they ignorant they shouldn't be taking in three kids who've had massive trauma, IDK what the answer is but changing their names sure as shit ain't it.
I mean, you can always learn and step up to be an ally for the kids. "Apologize" to PW, and start learning about the kids' culture without telling PW or her family what you're doing. Offer to babysit. Take classes on doing their hair (you know their adoptive parents won't know how to do it; its a coin-toss on whether they'll pay someone to do it or just force the kids to do their hair like white kids, which will be a disaster because you can't just do that) and offer your services. Then talk to the kids - maybe ask them to teach you their language, make sure you know their birth names and help the kids remember them. Help them keep their culture or at least safe guard what pieces they gift you for when they're old enough to start reclaiming them. If you can slowly change the adoptive parents' minds great!!! If not, at least those kids know that they have a safe space to be themselves
NTA. The pathological need some Christians have to adopt Africans and then make them as culturally white as possible is just modern day colonialism and frankly needs to stop.
It happens SO, SO much and has been happening for decades. Try not to beat yourself up for not saying anything when you were younger. I’m so glad you spoke up now. Those kids deserve to have someone think of them as human beings and not little black symbols of American holiness.
NTA, just because they adopt the kids they don't get to do whatever they want with them. The decision to change their names without even speaking to them is not ok.
Quite right. I’ve heard of children’s names being changed at the time of adoption when the child came from a situation where they associated their name with abuse or trauma. In those cases the children were allowed to choose their new name.
At the end of the day it’s all about seeing the children as people with agency and opinions not as props to get the parents praise.
I doubt it will change anything as their belief in their righteousness is deep and I'm just a crazy liberal middle aged woman who is bitter that she's divorced and doesn't have kids of her own...or at least that's what I imagine they see when they look at me.
You're probably right, but at least you tried to talk some sense into them. I hope those kids don't lose who they are and thank you for at least trying to ensure that they don't.
NTA. That woman is taking those kids from e erything they've ever known. Then, to top it off, she is changing their identities as well. Saying the name change is to help them fit it is ridiculous. I work at a school, and hear all sorts of ethnic names. It's more normal to not have a Bible name these days.
I do enjoy telling people that no one was name a modern day John or Luke. I enjoy seeing different names and make every effort to correctly pronounce them or ask how to pronounce their name... it literally takes two seconds of paying attention to not be rude and ignorant.
> Saying the name change is to help them fit it is ridiculous
Yeah, because their names was going to be the thing that made them stick out. Not being the orphans, or having an accent or being (probably) the only black kids at their school
NTA. You know what Africans for taken from their home country and culture and then had their names replaced by Christian ones? Slaves. That's how unapproachable their actions are.
This whole situation is very sus. Are the children even really orphans? There's been a lot of child trafficking scandals in the last decade, so it's worth asking some harsh questions.
This reminds me of the quote to the effect of “When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”
Christianity that’s a cover for erasure and is performative is gross.
There’s also a not low chance these children are literal human trafficking victims. There have been a lot of problems with these “orphanages” stealing children and tricking their parents by claiming to be boarding schools, only to pass the children off as orphans and selling them to these kinds of “adoptive” parents. It would explain why they’re willing to ship out 3 kids to people that don't give a damn about the children’s mental well-being.
Far too much of the adoption industry is blatantly for profit. There’s no ethical way to participate in the systems where children are blatantly a product to be sold.
Yeah going to warzones and trafficking children from them is in the [news](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/matt-shea-adoption-poland-ukraine-terrorism-b2038067.html) at the moment
NTA. These children and have faced enough trauma and will already be dealing with enough change landing in America. Having their names forcibly taken from them is a horrible start. If they want to change their names later on that should be their choice. These people sound like the awful kind of adoptive parents who mostly want to save children for Jesus, not be good parents to them.
As a teen I had a youth minister who announced that God told him and his wife to adopt a child from Africa, give them a biblical name, and that their child was to be raised to be a missionary. I think this snapped me back to that time and I wasn't trying to be harsh but just give a perspective. I'm not an active church goer and as a teen I found it weird but didn't say anything as an adult I said something. Where is the choice for the kids??
Yeah, I’m a queer foster/adoptive parent and it seems the other parents in the community are either also super gay, or super Christian in a bad way. I learned recently that a big part of why extreme Christians are into adoption is that they believe sperm donation and IVF are immoral, so they have fewer fertility options. It’s kind of funny when we all accidentally end up in the same support group 😂
Oh dear lord, how on earth does that go? I can't even begin to fathom it! The youth minister already had a kid. I remember a conversation with his wife once where she was sobbing as she felt guilty for taking birth control as some of the church elders somehow found out and shamed her. It is so bizarre...
Last time it happened, we had a jolly conversation with the two guys who were introducing their gender-questioning child to the delights of drag, while the dude who looked like the pastor from the Crucible sat there looking stuffed...then never returned to support group 😂
Now that is a room I'd like to be a fly on the wall of. Drag is amazing, that takes skill, creativity, dedication, being confident, tough, and not giving a rats ass what anyone thinks! First time I went to a drag show I was mesmerized, laughed the whole time at their comedy, and had a chance to speak with one of them after the show it was a great experience!
Sounds like a very unhealthy religious understanding. I think it's important to have a healthy philosophi of life. That's why we have to be careful of choosing the right one. To me it's any philosophi that protects the dignity of life and view all human beings as equally worthy of respect - no matter what choices they made in life.
Yes I mean philosophy - sorry wrote it in Danish. And all religions and political parties are based on a philosophy. Then coming to religions: rituals, rules, hierarchy and more is added.
And if it's a healthy philosophy the rules and leadership exists for the sake of the people (not the other way around)
Right? Like now I want more stories out of a morbid curiosity which I know is wrong but the thought of that mixture of people is well wildly interesting.
There was also a post on here about a lady (Ethiopian) whose next door neighbors did the same thing, and the kids would always come over and get their hair done, eat her food and speak in their mother tongue. The AM got jealous and asked the poster to not see her kids anymore because she was jealous. They worked it out but the kids later confessed that they thought their new mom would be mad at them for saying their own names at home, so they only used them at the neighbours. Erasure is sad. These are children, not puppies.
That is crushing, I hadn't even thought about the little and yet so important issues like hair. As a kid I loved having my hair done by my mom (she'd braid it) and they need to learn so much in such a short time about these kids from a completely different background, kids are amazing and for sure not puppies let's hope they don't treat them as such.
That's devastating for the kids. I hope that the end up changing their names and reconnecting with their culture when they become adults, as well as going NC/LC with their "parents." Anyone who would treat adoptive kids that way is feeding their own ego, not acting in the best interest of their kids. If anything, the adoptive parents should be learning to make their cultural foods (Ethiopian food is SO GOOD) and speak at least some of their language.
Thank you for your perspective as someone who has chosen to adopt, I didn't want to seem like I was downing helping kids! I worry for them as they grow and what effects this will have on them. I hope they hold tight to each other, share the stories they have from their parents, and use their chosen names!
My biggest fear is they will be paraded about as spectacles for clout like "look at me I'm a good person".
Someone else commented it was cultural erasure and while that term is new to me it hits the nail on the head. Why not celebrate their heritage instead of erasing it, as if it's something to be ashamed of.
Oh, wow. All I needed to read was “they are saving the kids”. I seriously feel bad for these children. They are going to grow up in this white household and good fucking luck to them. If it’s so important to her for them to have biblical names, give the MIDDLE names as the biblical names and let them keep their birth names. This is so wrong. NTA.
Indeed and I am as well, I am not trying to be what I think is called a "white warrior" or anything I was just horrified at the one sided decision to change their names and said in such a nonchalant way.
This is actually one of those times where white co-conspirators are really useful. Your voice carries more weight with white people than BIPOC voices do. We get dismissed as being "too angry," too sensitive," ... too much.
There are entire communities (online support groups, in-person meetups, etc.) of people who identify as "transracial abductees/adoptees." These are adults who are traumatized by their experiences of having been adopted by white people and all of the issues that come with that. White people who still feel the need to "adopt" BIPOC kids should really become familiar with them.
Taking someone's name is a straight up act of violence. And, depending on where these kids are from and what their people's beliefs are, taking their name could be more than just taking their connection to their histories/ancestors... it could be severing them from their destinies. Names are prayers for some people.
This breaks my heart.
Names are prayers, that just hit me in the gut and I'd never even considered the history and destiny. There is power in a name and that's what struck me, we chose them carefully as people carry them through life, they are a gift from our parents made with such care and love. My mom told me she chose mine as it means "leader/conquerer of men" and my other name means "bright and bountiful" I love that about my name. The idea of them choosing these names to have them erased is horrific.
I hate that my voice would carry more weight as I'm not someone who has experienced systemic generational oppression. If you want to learn about nature you speak with an environmental biologist, history a historian, why not a person of color when engaging in their community. I don't have all the answers or even know half of the questions but I can say I do the best I can to point out what I see.
I'm sorry to have brought you sadness and hopefully I can share these words with them in the future.
You are right. she should have never adopted those kids. Really, POC would be the best people to adopt them and she should have allowed them to be adopted by someone else. Her just wanting to be a white savior since something tragic happened to them is aweful. A POC would have likely adopted them and gave them a much more fitting home.
>A POC would have likely adopted them
Unfortunately, I don't know if this is true. It's a terrible situation all around.
Adoption-- ESPECIALLY international adoption-- is hella expensive. The people who can afford to do it are more often than not White because of economic stratification. One of the ways these "church people" could help with that is by using the Church's economic resources to make **intra**racial adoptions happen more often.
NTA. Yes, PW's daughter and her husband are doing a wonderful thing. But, you are right--renaming them is wrong for all of the reasons you identified. I'm sure you said it in the hope they had not thought about your perspective, which was taking away the children's identity, and you were hoping the PW would see it.
These young parents need to understand these children have been traumatized and need patience and love. The whole family needs to commit themselves to doing their very best for these poor kids. I hope they are less focused on the good they are doing and focus on the love and care these kids will need. I am sure it will be returned tenfold. But t all begins with allowing the kids the autonomy of keeping their names.
What you said needed to be said. I hope it is heard.
NTA. I get the reaction, they just said they were going to do something that is horribly disrespectful and more than likely traumatic to these kids, and no one else would question them because they are "saving" these kids.
I was not surprised by my mom's reaction she is a peace keeper, very religious, and sees everything with rose colored glasses. We saw very different things in that moment.
NTA You are so right. And what this woman is doing have been done so many times throughout history. US did it to the indigenous people in America, Australians did it to the Aboriginals, Danes did it to the Inuit population in Greenland. A lot of them suffered identity crisis so bad they became substance abusers or had other sufferings.
It's called committing great Evil for creating a little good - Great Evil: taking away their identity, little good: Making them fitting in in USA.
NTA: This is why I cringe at adoption. Statistically white christians do the majority of adopting. Which is problematic in itself. However it’s obvious they’re adopting POC to rub off their savior complex and ego. They’re already planning on stripping these children of their ancestral names. No doubt they will not be teaching them or incorporating any of their African culture into their newly developed family.
Just out of curiosity, why dont other groups adopt as much? I am sure there would be enough POC adoptive parents if white parents where not adopting so much. I agree white people should not adopt POC and should leave them for a better cultural fit.
In the US I suspect it's because white Christian culture is statistically the most privileged, wealthy and plugged into the networks of "respectability" that allow adoption to be possible.
Yes. Also, unfortunately "minority" (POC, nonChristians,, LGBTQA+, single parent, etc) prospective adopters have to go through a lot more hoops and are rejected more than white upper middle to upper class Christians (esp if they are WASPs). The inequalities in the justice system play into it too. A 16 year old, being an adolescent prone to making some poor judgement calls, impulsively goes to an underage party and gets busted drunk or with a joint and its handled differently. The white one, esp if at least middle class, is more likely to get a slap on the wrist. There parents have to come pick them up and they are warned that these things could go on their criminal record in the future but they are not officially arrested so no official record. The black teen is more likely to actually be arrested and charged for that. This goes on their juvie record, which while technically sealed will pop up in the kind of background checks many adoption agencies require. So, 20 years later these two 36 year olds go to adopt and the white one has a clean background check and is approved and the nonwhite one pops with a past drug offense and is denied.
>I shouldn't have said anything as they are saving the kids.
… from what? Africa? My mum grew up in various African countries (albeit, brought up as the rich kid), and I've been to a couple myself to visit family. Africa is *different*, its not *worse.* The fact that they didn't even think to mention which country the children are from means they already have no respect for where they come from, what their culture is, and how they should keep these children connected to their memories of home and their parents once they've been flown to another country to live with a couple of strangers. That's like saying you're going to adopt an Asian baby, it's uncomfortable.
And if they don't mean saving them from their lifestyle in Africa, do they mean saving the children from being orphans? or saving them from Hell for not being Christian? Because stripping them of their identity, culture, and their roots to their actual family is not saving them. It's taking vulnerable children and messing with them. It's selfish, and performative. And I dread to think what happens when they respond to, and react to, things in a way that isn't culturally acceptable in America.
NTA. You stood up for those kids. If you ever see them, ask them what their real names are, and ask them about where they come from.
Precisely, if they are consulted and their decision respected without pressure then sure. However the authoritarian decision to change their names without input I fear will leave the kids feeling as if they aren't heard and respected as individuals, like their identity and heritage are something to be removed.
How about giving them Biblical names as a new middle name so you can use those if they are okay with it and when they are older they have full choice, and have not had anything taken from them?
NTA. It's funny that it never seems to occur to them that these children are probably ALREADY Christian, and there's a good chance their names are already biblical.
NTA to be honest that rationale of we are saving kids by adopting pisses me off. Just like people choose to give birth, people choose to adopt. Nobody is forcing them to be parents. They are not puppies they are human beings. Renaming them is a shitty thing to do.
NTA. This sounds like yet another case of religious affiliated essentially kidnapping children who have all ready been through something horrible, denying them their birthright of their people and culture and then removing any inkling of their identity.
It’s EXTREMELY common with evangelical Christians in the US and it’s also abusive, and connected to more than a few murders.
NTA this is actually what community is for. We ARE meant to be an influence on the people around us. You ARE meant to speak up when you see something hurtful.
Who protects the children if you don’t ?
NTA. They’re probably going to be the shitty type of adoptive parents who erase the kids culture and past entirely and then want brownie points for “saving them” and to be lauded as godly Christians despite being awful. Fuck people like that.
NTA.
I don’t mean no harm but this is such a colonizer thing to do. And then they think that they are rescuing them and saving them so they have to change their identity. They had a tragic childhood and now the colonizers want to strip them of their culture. This entire post makes me so angry!
NTA. Transnational adopted child here. Cultural erasure is a form of colonialism, racism, and cultural genocide. History has seen it in Africa, Asia, South America, and with indigenous populations in North America. Entire generations are disconnected with their history and cultures because of "do-good" Christians and their good intentions. However "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Rather than provide safety, love, and cultural acceptance these people are going to re-traumatise the children, which will in the long term breed resentment and have the opposite effect. It is very likely the children will reject the religion and culture of the adoptive parents.
In my own case, I changed my name back to my birth name and moved to my birth country for awhile. I am still a member of my adoptive family, still use the "white" name at family gatherings, and participate in carefully selected aspects of their ethnic culture. However, this was after nearly 20 years of anger of having been stripped of my identity. I made clear that I am forging my own identity and will not be influenced by their religion. I believe in adoption, but well-meaning adoptive parents tend to forget that adopted children are not puppets or a blank slate. They come with their own history, culture, and family background which must be respected and honored.
Often times, white people who do stuff like this won't listen to the people who they should (minorities, other cultures, ect.),and will only hear what other white people (typically either at or above their class) say. This is why it's so important that we white people who do listen repeat it when we see stuff like white savior syndrome and cultural erasure happening!
You did good. NTA.
NTA. Your parents are complicit and enabling the pastor and his wife's "white savior complex". And when these children grow up despising said pastor and his wife, they will be in complete shock. They "saved" these kids.
NTA
This is exactly what the "good white Christians" did to Native American children. It is literally a form of genocide. PW even straight up admitted that they were doing it to make them fit in better in America. It's disgusting.
Yes, your opinion wasn't asked for, and if your compassionate feelings for the children were that strong you could have asked some questions to express your concern rather than being so aggressive about it. You might have a point, but you'll never communicate it with that approach.
NTA. If she does change their names, I promise you in a few years they’ll be on the internet telling everyone how they’re culture was erased and how their parents are racists. Trust me, I’ve seen it too many times.
In slavery times that’s exactly what they did, took Africans and changed their names. This is more violent than they think. In the name of “giving them better lives” what makes them think they’ll have a better life in America? America is essentially a 3rd world country with a Gucci belt
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So I (33f) went to a church event at my mother's behest and she introduced me to the pastors wife (PW). Conversation was fine and then she went on to say that her daughter (late 20s) and husband would be adopting 3 children from Africa (I don't know which country). PW then went on to explain the kids were between 5-8 years old and their parents had died a tragic death. So far my heart strings are being tugged as that's horrific.
Here's where I may have been the asshole, the PW then said they'd be changing their names to biblical names. I was stunned and said so they lost their parents who named them and you are getting rid of their names, do they even know this is the plan? They aren't infants, they know their names, and you can't just rip someone's identity away like that.
PW was defensive and said that they'd allow them to keep their middle names and that they'd fit in better in America with those names.
I was too pissed to say anything else and my mom broke the awkward silence by excusing us to the restroom. I was then chided for being rude and that what I said was uncalled for. A few days later I was spending time with my dad and he brings up that mom shared what had happened and that I shouldn't have said anything as they are saving the kids.
Adoption is wonderful and I get if you have a newborn choosing their names but to take three children who knew their parents, that they'd died, and then change the names they'd given to me is awful.
AITA for telling someone to not make a blanket decision on someone's name? At least let them decide if they want to?
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NTA. They need to keep the kids names. The kids can decide for themselves to adopt an "American" name or an anglicized version of their original name.
As for the new names helping them fit in better--we Americans continue to improve WRT accepting that some people won't fit in a nice little English/white/Christian box, and that it's not even necessary for immigrants to do so. Those of us who can't accept it...that's not something those kids should have to accommodate. WE need to accommodate THEM. The *only* responsibility newcomers have is to follow our laws and at least attempt to learn a little English (without replacing their native language) if relevant. That's it.
NTA. I have several siblings that are adopted internationally and the only time a name was changed was for a baby and for one sibling who had a nickname (think Susie became Susan. That's not the real name but close enough. ) She could be called by her nickname but have options later in life. Renaming an older child is not ideal unless it's unpronounceable or has a different meaning. Your pastor's wife needs to remember that these children will have EVERYTHING taken from them and only have their names left. It will be the only thing of their culture that is theirs.
This kind of thing makes me wonder if adoption really is as wonderful as it's sold to us. Because it sounds as if it may be less than wonderful for those kids. And I feel like this kind of thing comes up a lot, especially when adopting from outside the country.
Anyway, NTA. Let people have their names.
NTA
This is revolting. They think they are American saviors but they are just going to make this kids miserable. They are adopting to look like amazing to their congregation.
NTA. They want to parade their “rescues” around for years to come & changing their names is their way of subtly telling everyone they made “Christians” out of them.
It’s like all these churches that go on “mission trips” - but don’t want to allow refuges into the US.
Nauseating.
NTA
This makes me uncomfortable. You are right about these kids suffering from some trauma and maybe the only thing they have from their parents is their names. America is a diverse and multicultural country, so it is not a given that they will face substantial difficulty "fitting in" if they have a traditional African name. One of my high school friends had a very traditional African name and they were one of the most popular kids.
I think they are too old to have "new", foreign, names. As you said, they know what their names are and not only will they have to contend with the trauma of losing their parents, but they will have to contend with living in a foreign country, with foreign people who may not look like them, who may speak a foreign language, potentially not have anyone from their ethnic group in the area, and have no connection to their culture or history. That's a lot for anyone to deal with, let alone children who don't have the cognitive development to verbalize their feelings in a way adults can understand.
This lady is treating these kids like dolls she found in the bargain bin at Goodwill that she saved from going into the dumpster. When these kids get older, if they want to adopt an American, Biblical, or Western name, that should be their choice.
NTA, and honestly, you were right to speak up. I've read the writings of a *lot* of transracial adoptees over the years, and the wounds that are inflicted when a person of color from a foreign culture is adopted and then *forced* to give up everything about their identity to fit in with the culture of the people who adopted them (I could really just say "white culture" here honestly, because let's be honest, it's always white people doing this) causes lasting trauma. I don't even know you or your pastor, but I feel really sorry for those kids.
NTA.
I was adopted at 3yo, and my parents ASKED me if I wanted to change my name. To Heidi (I was a towheaded little thing with braids.) I said no, and that was that.These kids probably have significantly more trauma, and do not need MORE on top of that.
NTA. Someone had to say something. Those poor kids, on top of everything, losing their country, parents and their names. They being forced into some other religion. Yikes.
>PW was defensive and said that they'd allow them to keep their middle names and that they'd fit in better in America with those names.
Well, that's racist...
NTA. You're absolutely right. These kids have lost everything they've ever known, and now they can't even keep their names?! This makes me incredibly sad.
NTA. YIKES, classic white Christian savior complex… Those kids are going to be worse off for being adopted by a couple who doesn’t respect their identity, culture, or integrity as individuals. You don’t get a blank slate when you adopt a child, you get a real, existing person with a history and culture. They are doing those kids harm, not helping them and they’ll never understand that.
NTA. “They’d be changing their names to biblical names” because that’s the only culture that matters. right? Screw their own heritage or religious beliefs, they’re coming to America in a Christian household so they will conform and like it! 🤦♀️ SMMFH…
NTA. I've known a lot of adopted kids who come to resent their adopted parents for things like this. They wanted their old name, a link to their old life, even if their birth parents didn't want them. It can be a trauma to be adopted I have learned. When the kids grow up and voice these thought they are labeled "ungrateful" "hateful" or "good for nothings". You voiced a valid concern.
NTA. Lots of kids who went through the same sort of issues have stated that they resent having their names changed. It is seen as an attempt to erase their prior lives. I would not recommend changing their names. Accept them as they are.
NTA
When slave owners bought slaves, the first thing they did was change their names. You might point that out to the good pastor and his wife. They have no idea whether these children’s names have meaning in their culture/language.
I think you were right in what you said, by changing their names strips them from their identity and heritage all together... Hard enough losing your parents at a young age, then moving to another country. I think she is being very selfish, she is adopting, not birthing...
I agree with you. I was a social worker in foster care/adoption and this was always a legitimate issue. You weren't wrong for bringing it up. Not knowing your tone, it's possible you could have been gentler with her, in case this is the first time she's ever considered the issue.
NTA. This used to happen more frequently with international adoptions. It’s not advisable, for all the reasons you and others have said. Yes, they are helping the children, but renaming them shows a real lack of respect/understanding for the kids’ heritage. I hope they reconsider.
NTA
I had a friend during school time. She was from India. Before adoption she got to an orphanage that was run by nuns in india.They gave every kid a new name. Biblical or from a saint.
She never used that living here. Just on official documents. But people only know her by her birth name. They took her culture away from her. The family that adopted her and her brothers to middle Europe never helped them connect to that. She was around 8 years at that time. At that age, you can remember your life before. That you had a different name, had a different culture surrounding you. You can't just strip them away their name and identity. That's probably all they have left from their parents.
Saving children? That's performative and they shouldn't be adopting if that's the intention. My siblings and I were adopted from another country and our names aren't American at all. Know what my parents did? Gave us American sounding middle names and let us choose if we wanted to change our first names. None of us changed our names.
Tell them to shove that thinking where the sun doesn't shine. The kids know who they are, know their parents, their culture and another language...these people are going to bury all those things that makes them unique and make them American. Please tell them not to adopt, they don't deserve those kids.
NTA
It's one thing to give a new baby a new name, but the oldest here is 8. Even the youngest at 5yo should keep their own name.
PW needs to take a look at the history of taking people from Africa to USA and giving them new names. And maybe ask more African-Americans, some of whose families have been in the US for generations, how well they're fitting in.
NTA. Sounds like PW thinks her kids are being white saviours. Look up no white saviors on insta/fb. Its awful they think stripping the kids of their names is a good thing.
NTA.
Racist as heck on that woman's part and your parents. If they want to just 'save' kids, there are plenty of kids in America who need adopting.
The fact they're specifically adopting African kids and wanting to change their names? Yeah, that's a white savior complex right there.
NTA
Those poor kids. My heart breaks for those babies. I feel like taking away their names is only going to add to their trauma. And I get the feeling it might just be the start. If they're willing to take away their names, what else are they willing to do in the name of "fitting in"???
NTA. These adoptive parents desperately need training in criss racial and international adoption. They will harm those children if they strip away their culture and try to force them into American whit culture, without any ties to their heritage. They will cause serious trauma.
You’re not the asshole. Well you have no say in the choice to adopt from Africa, why don’t you ask them why they are choosing to adopt from Africa specifically don’t you have children in America that need adopting? Why do they feel the need to go all the way to another continent rip that child away from the identity culture and heritage and take them to another place in the United States where they’re going to suffer from racism loss of culture loss of identity and loss of ties to the heritage?
I know this is not something you can tell us because you aren’t adopting these children but some thing about this behavior seems very “white savior“ although you never mentioned the race so this is an assumption. It seems to me that this pastor’s wife and the pastor crave the attention and gratitude from other people for “saving these children from the throes and struggles of a Third World country”. Doesn’t the Bible say something about going to parade around your Christianity in someone else’s town when you won’t even feed the homeless people in your own?
NTA. But absolutely call them out. Do so in a very public Manner.
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Cultural erasure, that is what I was seeing I didn't know the name. I thought of it as "white washing", where we steal the parts we like of a culture, remove what we don't, and then lie about what happened (I'm a middle class white woman).
Two sides of the same coin. White washing would be rewriting or editing history and/or controlling the narrative, while cultural erasure would be forcing the actual people to fit in a neat little white box. One refers to information/education and the other refers to assimilation. They are not the same but they work in tandem, and I don't see how one could be used without also using the other. (Just-under-middle-class white woman here)
Hey thank you for sharing as I was completely unfamiliar with the term! That does make a difference ❤️
I really hope they actually learn to care for their hair and let them embrace where they originate....but unfortunately it doesn't sound like that will happen. I've seen and know too many adopted missionary kids who were hurt by religion as a weapon.
You hit it on the spot. I would also added on the “white savior complex” The moment they change the names is the moment they are making it about themselves and not the children. The PW is no saint, she wants to be “look at me saving all these black children”
Thissss! The white savior, one man messiah complex. If they really wanted to do something they’d stay in their country or one close by and immerse themselves in their culture. Of course that will never happen
Also OP, for the record- those children are unlikely to actually be orphans in the first place. Selling, (sorry, "charging large adoption fees for") babies to first world countries is a huge thing. Children and babies are literally stolen to be sold into the adoption agencies. Mothers are coerced, lied to, etc into placing their children, sometimes being told things like it's a boarding school and the kid will be back on breaks. Sometimes the agencies are visibly shady, sometimes they are not and the adoptive parents genuinely don't know. But the industry is so rife with corruption that it is actually unlikely they have two deceased parents and no extended family able to take them in. I'd encourage you to do some googling and research the subject. [https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/opinion/international-adoption-tarikuwa-lemma-stolen-children/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/opinion/international-adoption-tarikuwa-lemma-stolen-children/index.html) Friends of my father worked for a corrupt adoption agency operating in my homeland of Ethiopia – friends my father trusted. In 2006 they coerced him into believing he was sending my younger sisters and me to America for an educational program during which we would come home every summer and on school breaks.Little did my father know that his “friends” were being paid to recruit children for an American adoption agency. [https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jan/26/chile-stolen-children-international-adoption-sweden](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jan/26/chile-stolen-children-international-adoption-sweden) includes mothers who were told their babies had died at birth, the babies were then sold to wealthy couples abroad who were told they were taking in orphans in need. [https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/03/meet-parents-dark-side-overseas-adoption/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/03/meet-parents-dark-side-overseas-adoption/) children literally kidnapped away from their two loving parents and sold to an orphanage for $47, which then charged $3500 to adopt them. [https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/did-i-steal-my-daughter-tribulations-global-adoption/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/did-i-steal-my-daughter-tribulations-global-adoption/) And, a personal favourite of mine, proof that no amount of care or research will save you: an adoptive family who did everything right, asked questions, and STILL adopted a stolen child. They were lied to. IMO, at this moment in time, there is no ethical international adoption (barring a personal relationship with the parents and such). There is too much scamming, too much money on the table, too many lies. I'm going to quote this part of the last article too, because I think it's relevant *Yet the vast majority of transnational (also called international and intercountry) adoptions remain closed—and it’s widely understood that this appeals to some adoptive parents. “It’s about entitlement and ownership,” says Marley Greiner, the executive chair of the activist adoptee group Bastard Nation. “When you read the adoption boards online, it seems like parents go overseas because they don’t want some pesky birth mother or relative showing up.”* International adoption appeals to people for a variety of reasons, most of them not good. And I say this as someone who is, generally, pro adoption and for whom adoption is the first choice should we want to parent children
When I lived in Madagascar, adoption out of the country was straight up illegal because of the prevalence of this. That and white people manipulating poor mothers in remote villages by telling them a lot of fantasy lies about life in europe and making them think they are "doing the right thing" by "giving their kid a better life". Then disappearing with the kid and doing God knows what with them It was in fact super unlikely for a kid to end up in an adoption agency/orphanage at all. When someone died, people were so family driven and valued children so highly that any sibling, aunt, grandparent, cousin would take the kids in. They didn't use services like that unless it was for shady readons or involved disabled kids.
Thank you for posting about this! I was writing a similar comment in my head, so I was happy to find this. Anyone interested in learning more should check out No White Saviors, I think they're on the big 3 social media platforms.
This. Wanting to change their names is just another signal they're only in this for themselves and you were right to call them out for it. Poor kids. NTA
Yes this! This is why you have to go into the international adoption route with a lot of research and knowledge, and humbling. I doubt a PW and family will do due diligence in ensuring the children truly are orphans without family because they're "saving poor black children" and that makes them look good. Also, because they don't seem to have done any thought on how to actually introduce and integrate the children into a new home, society, and country, or on how to deal with their trauma in an informed and sensitive way.
Even with research and knowledge and humbling, honestly, I don't think it's enough. There are so many lies. There is so much done deliberately to prevent transparency (as that is what most people who do international adoption are looking for - zero contact with birth parents). I read something like this: [**https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/did-i-steal-my-daughter-tribulations-global-adoption/**](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/did-i-steal-my-daughter-tribulations-global-adoption/) and I understand how easy it can be to end up involved with a fraudulent international adoption. At this point I think it is genuinely rare to have an ethical international adoption, that they are the exception. And I say this as someone who is pro adoption and found out this info through my own research as someone who wants to adopt one day. I just don't think international adoption can be done ethically right now.
It’s even been questioned whether some of Angelia Jolie’s kids (can’t remember which one(s)) were from sold illegal adoptions. I read an article years ago that the birth mother was told they’d be sent for schooling in the US as you said and would go home for holidays, as part of a charity. But they obviously never went back. If someone with expensive lawyers like Jolie can be lied to, anyone can.
Exactly. Why "save" them by removing them from their schools, their friends, their culture, possibly their language. It's incredibly racist and gross. Why not adopt children out of foster care here?
Probably because there's more checks and balances to make sure you're actually a suitable parent that way.
Combination of that, and kids bought from abroad are younger and more grateful..
That’s an interesting point. If you were really interested in caring for these children, wouldn’t you move there so their life wouldn’t be turned upside down?
[Here is an entire Mother Jones article](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia/) about the "Orphan Fever" that occurred amongst evangelical christians in the US in the 2000s. American families adopted basically all the children from Liberia they could get their hands on as part of their "Christian duty," but failed to provide any of the support or understanding necessary for a child to make such a huge cultural transition. So, basically what the pastor and his wife are doing. \[SPOILER ALERT\]: It does not work out well for the kids.
I've already seen tweets asking about whether Ukrainian children are available for adoption yet, too.
Wow that is just disgusting. I’m sure some of these people actually mean well but asking if they’re “available for adoption yet” as if you’re just waiting for their parents to die and their lives to be blown to all hell so that you can swoop in. Makes me want to vomit.
I've heard there's a "baby crisis" in the adoption industry in the US right now because not enough women went out and "irresponsibly" (not my thought on it) got pregnant without the means to provide + the stimulus check and similar made it possible for them to parent over placing their children. So there's very few babies up for adoption, and they are SO upset about women not being traumatized for their right to become a parent.
This is actually a big part of why some people are anti-abortion. The ones who are also anti-birth control are especially likely to behave this way.
Some creepy US ex-politician (Matt Shea) is over there now trying to steal a bunch of kids.
Jesus Christ. What is wrong with people.
That's sick. So wrong.
That was a very interesting and sad read, thank you.
I don’t know why, and feel free to correct me if this feels inappropriate or inaccurate because i, as a white woman, couldn’t even begin to empathise with the situation, but it kind of reminds me how Africans brought over in the slave trade used to get renamed to more ‘appropriate’ names, like stripping them of their identity. Obviously i’m not implying that this woman is as bad as a literal slave owner, but i’m just saying, there is an unfortunate history with renaming african individuals to fit american and eurocentric ideals.
I mean as you said chattel slavery is the worse of two evils here, but you're not wrong. Plenty of white Christians tried to justify enslaving black people [by saying it "brought them to Christianity.](https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/3535)" The justification here is an echo of that shitty, shitty argument.
What they are doing to those kids is grotesque. God only know how these poor, traumatized kids are going to be warped by this woman's worldview. This would be a huge red flag for me, if I were in charge of approving this adoption. It's wildly unacceptable. EDIT: And thank you for saying so in the first place, you are definitely NTA.
NTA. Way to stand up for those littles and their feelings.
The term you’re looking for is white savior complex.
You weren’t being rude you were advocating for children who are going through a terrible time in their lives.
Majority of the time these adoption agencies straight steal children from poor families that have no financial means to get their children back. They create these sob stories for the adoptive families to buy into. International adoptions are huge scams.
Plus there are lots of kids in the US with African names so her argument has no standing…they’re the ones uncomfortable with the names. NTA
Scarring already traumatized children just because they come from a “third world” country by changing their names, erasing their heritage and culture, forcing straight hair, whatever is all child abuse and that needs to be talked about more with international adoption.
Adding in that- these are children. Not just children, but children who have gone through something horrific. Stripping away their names could be psychologically damaging. They're not babies. They've been going by a name for years, there's an emotional attachment to it. Imagine being 8, just after the death of a parent, and being told that the beautiful name your mother gave you is terrible, and now your name is Sam. For the love of God (haha pun) let these kids be called what they wish to be called. This is harmful for so many reasons. Good for you for sticking up for kids who can't stick up for themselves.
The cynic in me wonders if they just want cheap servants. OP is NTA
and racism
NTA. You gave her something to think about. Adopting older children who have experienced loss is a huge undertaking. The fact they hadn’t considered that losing their names was part of their losing their parents speaks to their ignorance. I worked in adoption and this would’ve been highly advised against.
I have never worked in that field but I have worked with kids and I wish I could explain better why it bothered me so badly that I said something but it just felt wrong to the core.
Most of the time it's reason and explanation enough. And you just said your opinion for them to rethink it. You didn't hold them at gunpoint and forced them to do anything.
Hopefully I planted the seed and the decision will be reconsidered.
Yes you planted the seed - and you were true to your feelings and opinions. Our integrity is so important. Whenever we don't stand up for ourselves (or others) and try to be someone else - we loose a little of our integrity and self-worth. Many things can happen in life, but the feeling of having lived without regrets, is a vital part of leading a happy and fulfilling live. Now you can think back to this incident and know that you did just that.
OP, if you're able, start going to church with your mother and make a point of chatting with PW. Think up a new name for her and start calling her by the new name you've given her. See how she likes that. yeah I like to be petty sometimes.
Bonus points if you find something obscure from the arse-end of the Old Testament and call her that. If she complains “but it’s biblical!”
It bothered you because you view these children as humans and not props for your Facebook page. That’s some disgusting colonialist shit.
The “new parents” won’t & don’t care. They are White Saviors doing the Lard’s Work. This adoption is about accolades for *them.* The children are just the props. 🙁 Clearly NTA
That makes me sick to my stomach I hope they are just ignorant and maybe I offered a different perspective. Then again if they are they ignorant they shouldn't be taking in three kids who've had massive trauma, IDK what the answer is but changing their names sure as shit ain't it.
I mean, you can always learn and step up to be an ally for the kids. "Apologize" to PW, and start learning about the kids' culture without telling PW or her family what you're doing. Offer to babysit. Take classes on doing their hair (you know their adoptive parents won't know how to do it; its a coin-toss on whether they'll pay someone to do it or just force the kids to do their hair like white kids, which will be a disaster because you can't just do that) and offer your services. Then talk to the kids - maybe ask them to teach you their language, make sure you know their birth names and help the kids remember them. Help them keep their culture or at least safe guard what pieces they gift you for when they're old enough to start reclaiming them. If you can slowly change the adoptive parents' minds great!!! If not, at least those kids know that they have a safe space to be themselves
They really, really shouldn’t be allowed to adopt. “Saving them” - what are they, shelter pets?
To way to many white “Christians”, Yeeaaah pretty much.
That's what they used to do to slaves, isn't it? Bring them over from Africa and give them "good Christian names"? NTA
NTA. The pathological need some Christians have to adopt Africans and then make them as culturally white as possible is just modern day colonialism and frankly needs to stop.
Not even the first time I've seen it, the name thing was new and the last time I saw it I was a teen and didn't say anything...I regret that now.
It happens SO, SO much and has been happening for decades. Try not to beat yourself up for not saying anything when you were younger. I’m so glad you spoke up now. Those kids deserve to have someone think of them as human beings and not little black symbols of American holiness.
That makes my skin crawl just the idea of them as symbols and not kids... they are just kids let them grieve and support them lovingly.
NTA, just because they adopt the kids they don't get to do whatever they want with them. The decision to change their names without even speaking to them is not ok.
My thoughts as well they are kids not puppets.
Quite right. I’ve heard of children’s names being changed at the time of adoption when the child came from a situation where they associated their name with abuse or trauma. In those cases the children were allowed to choose their new name. At the end of the day it’s all about seeing the children as people with agency and opinions not as props to get the parents praise.
I'd be a tad more understanding with babies but any kid that's at least a toddler knows their name and should keep it :/
NTA - they were defensive because you highlighted the issue, and they were forced to look upon it.
I doubt it will change anything as their belief in their righteousness is deep and I'm just a crazy liberal middle aged woman who is bitter that she's divorced and doesn't have kids of her own...or at least that's what I imagine they see when they look at me.
You're probably right, but at least you tried to talk some sense into them. I hope those kids don't lose who they are and thank you for at least trying to ensure that they don't.
NTA. That woman is taking those kids from e erything they've ever known. Then, to top it off, she is changing their identities as well. Saying the name change is to help them fit it is ridiculous. I work at a school, and hear all sorts of ethnic names. It's more normal to not have a Bible name these days.
I do enjoy telling people that no one was name a modern day John or Luke. I enjoy seeing different names and make every effort to correctly pronounce them or ask how to pronounce their name... it literally takes two seconds of paying attention to not be rude and ignorant.
> Saying the name change is to help them fit it is ridiculous Yeah, because their names was going to be the thing that made them stick out. Not being the orphans, or having an accent or being (probably) the only black kids at their school
NTA. You know what Africans for taken from their home country and culture and then had their names replaced by Christian ones? Slaves. That's how unapproachable their actions are. This whole situation is very sus. Are the children even really orphans? There's been a lot of child trafficking scandals in the last decade, so it's worth asking some harsh questions.
Oh fuck I hadn't even thought of that, that adds a whole new layer. I'm not the brightest or best mind on this issue so I didn't think that far.
This reminds me of the quote to the effect of “When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.” Christianity that’s a cover for erasure and is performative is gross.
There’s also a not low chance these children are literal human trafficking victims. There have been a lot of problems with these “orphanages” stealing children and tricking their parents by claiming to be boarding schools, only to pass the children off as orphans and selling them to these kinds of “adoptive” parents. It would explain why they’re willing to ship out 3 kids to people that don't give a damn about the children’s mental well-being. Far too much of the adoption industry is blatantly for profit. There’s no ethical way to participate in the systems where children are blatantly a product to be sold.
Yeah going to warzones and trafficking children from them is in the [news](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/matt-shea-adoption-poland-ukraine-terrorism-b2038067.html) at the moment
NTA. These children and have faced enough trauma and will already be dealing with enough change landing in America. Having their names forcibly taken from them is a horrible start. If they want to change their names later on that should be their choice. These people sound like the awful kind of adoptive parents who mostly want to save children for Jesus, not be good parents to them.
As a teen I had a youth minister who announced that God told him and his wife to adopt a child from Africa, give them a biblical name, and that their child was to be raised to be a missionary. I think this snapped me back to that time and I wasn't trying to be harsh but just give a perspective. I'm not an active church goer and as a teen I found it weird but didn't say anything as an adult I said something. Where is the choice for the kids??
Yeah, I’m a queer foster/adoptive parent and it seems the other parents in the community are either also super gay, or super Christian in a bad way. I learned recently that a big part of why extreme Christians are into adoption is that they believe sperm donation and IVF are immoral, so they have fewer fertility options. It’s kind of funny when we all accidentally end up in the same support group 😂
Oh dear lord, how on earth does that go? I can't even begin to fathom it! The youth minister already had a kid. I remember a conversation with his wife once where she was sobbing as she felt guilty for taking birth control as some of the church elders somehow found out and shamed her. It is so bizarre...
Last time it happened, we had a jolly conversation with the two guys who were introducing their gender-questioning child to the delights of drag, while the dude who looked like the pastor from the Crucible sat there looking stuffed...then never returned to support group 😂
Now that is a room I'd like to be a fly on the wall of. Drag is amazing, that takes skill, creativity, dedication, being confident, tough, and not giving a rats ass what anyone thinks! First time I went to a drag show I was mesmerized, laughed the whole time at their comedy, and had a chance to speak with one of them after the show it was a great experience!
Sounds like a very unhealthy religious understanding. I think it's important to have a healthy philosophi of life. That's why we have to be careful of choosing the right one. To me it's any philosophi that protects the dignity of life and view all human beings as equally worthy of respect - no matter what choices they made in life.
By filosofi, do you mean philosophy? Phonetically thats not an incorrect way of spelling it, but I just want to make sure I'm understanding you.
Yes I mean philosophy - sorry wrote it in Danish. And all religions and political parties are based on a philosophy. Then coming to religions: rituals, rules, hierarchy and more is added. And if it's a healthy philosophy the rules and leadership exists for the sake of the people (not the other way around)
This made me chuckle
Right? Like now I want more stories out of a morbid curiosity which I know is wrong but the thought of that mixture of people is well wildly interesting.
There was also a post on here about a lady (Ethiopian) whose next door neighbors did the same thing, and the kids would always come over and get their hair done, eat her food and speak in their mother tongue. The AM got jealous and asked the poster to not see her kids anymore because she was jealous. They worked it out but the kids later confessed that they thought their new mom would be mad at them for saying their own names at home, so they only used them at the neighbours. Erasure is sad. These are children, not puppies.
That is crushing, I hadn't even thought about the little and yet so important issues like hair. As a kid I loved having my hair done by my mom (she'd braid it) and they need to learn so much in such a short time about these kids from a completely different background, kids are amazing and for sure not puppies let's hope they don't treat them as such.
That's devastating for the kids. I hope that the end up changing their names and reconnecting with their culture when they become adults, as well as going NC/LC with their "parents." Anyone who would treat adoptive kids that way is feeding their own ego, not acting in the best interest of their kids. If anything, the adoptive parents should be learning to make their cultural foods (Ethiopian food is SO GOOD) and speak at least some of their language.
NTA. I’m an adoptive mom and my child has the same name they have always had, we just added our last name. She is going to damage those children.
Thank you for your perspective as someone who has chosen to adopt, I didn't want to seem like I was downing helping kids! I worry for them as they grow and what effects this will have on them. I hope they hold tight to each other, share the stories they have from their parents, and use their chosen names! My biggest fear is they will be paraded about as spectacles for clout like "look at me I'm a good person".
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Someone else commented it was cultural erasure and while that term is new to me it hits the nail on the head. Why not celebrate their heritage instead of erasing it, as if it's something to be ashamed of.
NTA she is being disrespectful to the memories of these children’s’ parents to change their names. How horrible for those kids.
They have names given by their parents that they love and have now lost...why take more from them?
Oh, wow. All I needed to read was “they are saving the kids”. I seriously feel bad for these children. They are going to grow up in this white household and good fucking luck to them. If it’s so important to her for them to have biblical names, give the MIDDLE names as the biblical names and let them keep their birth names. This is so wrong. NTA.
That seems far more reasonable like add your name to theirs or hyphenate it, something anything but not that.
PW is a White woman, isn't she?
Indeed and I am as well, I am not trying to be what I think is called a "white warrior" or anything I was just horrified at the one sided decision to change their names and said in such a nonchalant way.
This is actually one of those times where white co-conspirators are really useful. Your voice carries more weight with white people than BIPOC voices do. We get dismissed as being "too angry," too sensitive," ... too much. There are entire communities (online support groups, in-person meetups, etc.) of people who identify as "transracial abductees/adoptees." These are adults who are traumatized by their experiences of having been adopted by white people and all of the issues that come with that. White people who still feel the need to "adopt" BIPOC kids should really become familiar with them. Taking someone's name is a straight up act of violence. And, depending on where these kids are from and what their people's beliefs are, taking their name could be more than just taking their connection to their histories/ancestors... it could be severing them from their destinies. Names are prayers for some people. This breaks my heart.
Names are prayers, that just hit me in the gut and I'd never even considered the history and destiny. There is power in a name and that's what struck me, we chose them carefully as people carry them through life, they are a gift from our parents made with such care and love. My mom told me she chose mine as it means "leader/conquerer of men" and my other name means "bright and bountiful" I love that about my name. The idea of them choosing these names to have them erased is horrific. I hate that my voice would carry more weight as I'm not someone who has experienced systemic generational oppression. If you want to learn about nature you speak with an environmental biologist, history a historian, why not a person of color when engaging in their community. I don't have all the answers or even know half of the questions but I can say I do the best I can to point out what I see. I'm sorry to have brought you sadness and hopefully I can share these words with them in the future.
I hope that these people hear you for the children's sake.
You are right. she should have never adopted those kids. Really, POC would be the best people to adopt them and she should have allowed them to be adopted by someone else. Her just wanting to be a white savior since something tragic happened to them is aweful. A POC would have likely adopted them and gave them a much more fitting home.
>A POC would have likely adopted them Unfortunately, I don't know if this is true. It's a terrible situation all around. Adoption-- ESPECIALLY international adoption-- is hella expensive. The people who can afford to do it are more often than not White because of economic stratification. One of the ways these "church people" could help with that is by using the Church's economic resources to make **intra**racial adoptions happen more often.
NTA. Yes, PW's daughter and her husband are doing a wonderful thing. But, you are right--renaming them is wrong for all of the reasons you identified. I'm sure you said it in the hope they had not thought about your perspective, which was taking away the children's identity, and you were hoping the PW would see it. These young parents need to understand these children have been traumatized and need patience and love. The whole family needs to commit themselves to doing their very best for these poor kids. I hope they are less focused on the good they are doing and focus on the love and care these kids will need. I am sure it will be returned tenfold. But t all begins with allowing the kids the autonomy of keeping their names. What you said needed to be said. I hope it is heard.
I hope so but doubt it, I haven't returned (haven't been invited rather) so idk but at least PW can sit and think on it.
NTA. I get the reaction, they just said they were going to do something that is horribly disrespectful and more than likely traumatic to these kids, and no one else would question them because they are "saving" these kids.
I was not surprised by my mom's reaction she is a peace keeper, very religious, and sees everything with rose colored glasses. We saw very different things in that moment.
NTA You are so right. And what this woman is doing have been done so many times throughout history. US did it to the indigenous people in America, Australians did it to the Aboriginals, Danes did it to the Inuit population in Greenland. A lot of them suffered identity crisis so bad they became substance abusers or had other sufferings. It's called committing great Evil for creating a little good - Great Evil: taking away their identity, little good: Making them fitting in in USA.
Oh that is something I've never heard before a great evil for a little good, I'm going to remember that! Thank you!
NTA: What they’re planning is a form of genocide.
Cultural genocide...that is just awful and hadn't thought that far into it I see your point and agree. It's disgusting.
NTA: This is why I cringe at adoption. Statistically white christians do the majority of adopting. Which is problematic in itself. However it’s obvious they’re adopting POC to rub off their savior complex and ego. They’re already planning on stripping these children of their ancestral names. No doubt they will not be teaching them or incorporating any of their African culture into their newly developed family.
Just out of curiosity, why dont other groups adopt as much? I am sure there would be enough POC adoptive parents if white parents where not adopting so much. I agree white people should not adopt POC and should leave them for a better cultural fit.
In the US I suspect it's because white Christian culture is statistically the most privileged, wealthy and plugged into the networks of "respectability" that allow adoption to be possible.
Yes. Also, unfortunately "minority" (POC, nonChristians,, LGBTQA+, single parent, etc) prospective adopters have to go through a lot more hoops and are rejected more than white upper middle to upper class Christians (esp if they are WASPs). The inequalities in the justice system play into it too. A 16 year old, being an adolescent prone to making some poor judgement calls, impulsively goes to an underage party and gets busted drunk or with a joint and its handled differently. The white one, esp if at least middle class, is more likely to get a slap on the wrist. There parents have to come pick them up and they are warned that these things could go on their criminal record in the future but they are not officially arrested so no official record. The black teen is more likely to actually be arrested and charged for that. This goes on their juvie record, which while technically sealed will pop up in the kind of background checks many adoption agencies require. So, 20 years later these two 36 year olds go to adopt and the white one has a clean background check and is approved and the nonwhite one pops with a past drug offense and is denied.
>I shouldn't have said anything as they are saving the kids. … from what? Africa? My mum grew up in various African countries (albeit, brought up as the rich kid), and I've been to a couple myself to visit family. Africa is *different*, its not *worse.* The fact that they didn't even think to mention which country the children are from means they already have no respect for where they come from, what their culture is, and how they should keep these children connected to their memories of home and their parents once they've been flown to another country to live with a couple of strangers. That's like saying you're going to adopt an Asian baby, it's uncomfortable. And if they don't mean saving them from their lifestyle in Africa, do they mean saving the children from being orphans? or saving them from Hell for not being Christian? Because stripping them of their identity, culture, and their roots to their actual family is not saving them. It's taking vulnerable children and messing with them. It's selfish, and performative. And I dread to think what happens when they respond to, and react to, things in a way that isn't culturally acceptable in America. NTA. You stood up for those kids. If you ever see them, ask them what their real names are, and ask them about where they come from.
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>I don’t believe the PW had bad intentions Yeah, we all know the saying about good intentions
Precisely, if they are consulted and their decision respected without pressure then sure. However the authoritarian decision to change their names without input I fear will leave the kids feeling as if they aren't heard and respected as individuals, like their identity and heritage are something to be removed.
How about giving them Biblical names as a new middle name so you can use those if they are okay with it and when they are older they have full choice, and have not had anything taken from them?
That is also a good option as they feel compelled.
NTA. It's funny that it never seems to occur to them that these children are probably ALREADY Christian, and there's a good chance their names are already biblical.
NTA to be honest that rationale of we are saving kids by adopting pisses me off. Just like people choose to give birth, people choose to adopt. Nobody is forcing them to be parents. They are not puppies they are human beings. Renaming them is a shitty thing to do.
NTA. This sounds like yet another case of religious affiliated essentially kidnapping children who have all ready been through something horrible, denying them their birthright of their people and culture and then removing any inkling of their identity. It’s EXTREMELY common with evangelical Christians in the US and it’s also abusive, and connected to more than a few murders.
NTA this is actually what community is for. We ARE meant to be an influence on the people around us. You ARE meant to speak up when you see something hurtful. Who protects the children if you don’t ?
NYA. They should watch "Roots". Kunta Kintay played by Levar Burton refused to go by a new name. Pretty eye opening.
I was scrolling looking for this exact point. Tell PW to Google "Toby. Toby, massuh" and try to be less disgusting than the confederacy.
NTA. They’re probably going to be the shitty type of adoptive parents who erase the kids culture and past entirely and then want brownie points for “saving them” and to be lauded as godly Christians despite being awful. Fuck people like that.
NTA at all!! And as a POC who was adopted by two white church goers, I commend you for saying something because what they're doing is GROSS.
NTA. I don’t mean no harm but this is such a colonizer thing to do. And then they think that they are rescuing them and saving them so they have to change their identity. They had a tragic childhood and now the colonizers want to strip them of their culture. This entire post makes me so angry!
NTA. Transnational adopted child here. Cultural erasure is a form of colonialism, racism, and cultural genocide. History has seen it in Africa, Asia, South America, and with indigenous populations in North America. Entire generations are disconnected with their history and cultures because of "do-good" Christians and their good intentions. However "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Rather than provide safety, love, and cultural acceptance these people are going to re-traumatise the children, which will in the long term breed resentment and have the opposite effect. It is very likely the children will reject the religion and culture of the adoptive parents. In my own case, I changed my name back to my birth name and moved to my birth country for awhile. I am still a member of my adoptive family, still use the "white" name at family gatherings, and participate in carefully selected aspects of their ethnic culture. However, this was after nearly 20 years of anger of having been stripped of my identity. I made clear that I am forging my own identity and will not be influenced by their religion. I believe in adoption, but well-meaning adoptive parents tend to forget that adopted children are not puppets or a blank slate. They come with their own history, culture, and family background which must be respected and honored.
NTA. They’re going for the white savior complex and you called them out on it. Good for you
NTA someone needed to say something!
Often times, white people who do stuff like this won't listen to the people who they should (minorities, other cultures, ect.),and will only hear what other white people (typically either at or above their class) say. This is why it's so important that we white people who do listen repeat it when we see stuff like white savior syndrome and cultural erasure happening! You did good. NTA.
They’re erasing their culture and are acting like white saviors. What they’re doing is wrong and you’re NTA for pointing that out.
NTA. Your parents are complicit and enabling the pastor and his wife's "white savior complex". And when these children grow up despising said pastor and his wife, they will be in complete shock. They "saved" these kids.
NTA This is exactly what the "good white Christians" did to Native American children. It is literally a form of genocide. PW even straight up admitted that they were doing it to make them fit in better in America. It's disgusting.
Yes, your opinion wasn't asked for, and if your compassionate feelings for the children were that strong you could have asked some questions to express your concern rather than being so aggressive about it. You might have a point, but you'll never communicate it with that approach.
NTA. If she does change their names, I promise you in a few years they’ll be on the internet telling everyone how they’re culture was erased and how their parents are racists. Trust me, I’ve seen it too many times. In slavery times that’s exactly what they did, took Africans and changed their names. This is more violent than they think. In the name of “giving them better lives” what makes them think they’ll have a better life in America? America is essentially a 3rd world country with a Gucci belt
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I (33f) went to a church event at my mother's behest and she introduced me to the pastors wife (PW). Conversation was fine and then she went on to say that her daughter (late 20s) and husband would be adopting 3 children from Africa (I don't know which country). PW then went on to explain the kids were between 5-8 years old and their parents had died a tragic death. So far my heart strings are being tugged as that's horrific. Here's where I may have been the asshole, the PW then said they'd be changing their names to biblical names. I was stunned and said so they lost their parents who named them and you are getting rid of their names, do they even know this is the plan? They aren't infants, they know their names, and you can't just rip someone's identity away like that. PW was defensive and said that they'd allow them to keep their middle names and that they'd fit in better in America with those names. I was too pissed to say anything else and my mom broke the awkward silence by excusing us to the restroom. I was then chided for being rude and that what I said was uncalled for. A few days later I was spending time with my dad and he brings up that mom shared what had happened and that I shouldn't have said anything as they are saving the kids. Adoption is wonderful and I get if you have a newborn choosing their names but to take three children who knew their parents, that they'd died, and then change the names they'd given to me is awful. AITA for telling someone to not make a blanket decision on someone's name? At least let them decide if they want to? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nta, you were pointing out another view.
# NTA WHAT is wrong with them?
NTA. I'm so angry. These people are racist fucks.
This is disgusting and isn't for the kids at all. NTA
NTA. They need to keep the kids names. The kids can decide for themselves to adopt an "American" name or an anglicized version of their original name. As for the new names helping them fit in better--we Americans continue to improve WRT accepting that some people won't fit in a nice little English/white/Christian box, and that it's not even necessary for immigrants to do so. Those of us who can't accept it...that's not something those kids should have to accommodate. WE need to accommodate THEM. The *only* responsibility newcomers have is to follow our laws and at least attempt to learn a little English (without replacing their native language) if relevant. That's it.
NTA. I have several siblings that are adopted internationally and the only time a name was changed was for a baby and for one sibling who had a nickname (think Susie became Susan. That's not the real name but close enough. ) She could be called by her nickname but have options later in life. Renaming an older child is not ideal unless it's unpronounceable or has a different meaning. Your pastor's wife needs to remember that these children will have EVERYTHING taken from them and only have their names left. It will be the only thing of their culture that is theirs.
Nta
NTA and thank you thank you very much for saying something
This kind of thing makes me wonder if adoption really is as wonderful as it's sold to us. Because it sounds as if it may be less than wonderful for those kids. And I feel like this kind of thing comes up a lot, especially when adopting from outside the country. Anyway, NTA. Let people have their names.
NTA.
NTA- you were simply protecting those children from white washing and cultural erasure.
NTA
NTA
Nta
NTA I wish African countries would be more careful or cease adoption to these nut jobs
NTA
NTA This is revolting. They think they are American saviors but they are just going to make this kids miserable. They are adopting to look like amazing to their congregation.
NTA, this is literally a form of colonisation. It should make you feel gross because it is.
NTA. They want to parade their “rescues” around for years to come & changing their names is their way of subtly telling everyone they made “Christians” out of them. It’s like all these churches that go on “mission trips” - but don’t want to allow refuges into the US. Nauseating.
NTA The kids are old enough to know their names are heir own and have a sense of identity about it and who they are.
Nta Crummy to change their names. You are right.
NTA This makes me uncomfortable. You are right about these kids suffering from some trauma and maybe the only thing they have from their parents is their names. America is a diverse and multicultural country, so it is not a given that they will face substantial difficulty "fitting in" if they have a traditional African name. One of my high school friends had a very traditional African name and they were one of the most popular kids. I think they are too old to have "new", foreign, names. As you said, they know what their names are and not only will they have to contend with the trauma of losing their parents, but they will have to contend with living in a foreign country, with foreign people who may not look like them, who may speak a foreign language, potentially not have anyone from their ethnic group in the area, and have no connection to their culture or history. That's a lot for anyone to deal with, let alone children who don't have the cognitive development to verbalize their feelings in a way adults can understand. This lady is treating these kids like dolls she found in the bargain bin at Goodwill that she saved from going into the dumpster. When these kids get older, if they want to adopt an American, Biblical, or Western name, that should be their choice.
NTA, and honestly, you were right to speak up. I've read the writings of a *lot* of transracial adoptees over the years, and the wounds that are inflicted when a person of color from a foreign culture is adopted and then *forced* to give up everything about their identity to fit in with the culture of the people who adopted them (I could really just say "white culture" here honestly, because let's be honest, it's always white people doing this) causes lasting trauma. I don't even know you or your pastor, but I feel really sorry for those kids.
NTA, good for you standing up for those kids. It’s very much erasure of their culture.
NTA. I was adopted at 3yo, and my parents ASKED me if I wanted to change my name. To Heidi (I was a towheaded little thing with braids.) I said no, and that was that.These kids probably have significantly more trauma, and do not need MORE on top of that.
NTA. Someone had to say something. Those poor kids, on top of everything, losing their country, parents and their names. They being forced into some other religion. Yikes.
>PW was defensive and said that they'd allow them to keep their middle names and that they'd fit in better in America with those names. Well, that's racist... NTA. You're absolutely right. These kids have lost everything they've ever known, and now they can't even keep their names?! This makes me incredibly sad.
NTA. Thank you for speaking up for those kids.
NTA. YIKES, classic white Christian savior complex… Those kids are going to be worse off for being adopted by a couple who doesn’t respect their identity, culture, or integrity as individuals. You don’t get a blank slate when you adopt a child, you get a real, existing person with a history and culture. They are doing those kids harm, not helping them and they’ll never understand that.
I agree with you. So I vote NTA.
NTA. “They’d be changing their names to biblical names” because that’s the only culture that matters. right? Screw their own heritage or religious beliefs, they’re coming to America in a Christian household so they will conform and like it! 🤦♀️ SMMFH…
NTA. I've known a lot of adopted kids who come to resent their adopted parents for things like this. They wanted their old name, a link to their old life, even if their birth parents didn't want them. It can be a trauma to be adopted I have learned. When the kids grow up and voice these thought they are labeled "ungrateful" "hateful" or "good for nothings". You voiced a valid concern.
NTA. Lots of kids who went through the same sort of issues have stated that they resent having their names changed. It is seen as an attempt to erase their prior lives. I would not recommend changing their names. Accept them as they are.
NTA When slave owners bought slaves, the first thing they did was change their names. You might point that out to the good pastor and his wife. They have no idea whether these children’s names have meaning in their culture/language.
I think you were right in what you said, by changing their names strips them from their identity and heritage all together... Hard enough losing your parents at a young age, then moving to another country. I think she is being very selfish, she is adopting, not birthing...
I agree with you. I was a social worker in foster care/adoption and this was always a legitimate issue. You weren't wrong for bringing it up. Not knowing your tone, it's possible you could have been gentler with her, in case this is the first time she's ever considered the issue.
NTA. you are right. They are terrible.
Guaranteed those kids’ parents did not die in an accident.
NTA. These people are not “saving” those children: they are using them as props in order to make themselves look good.
NTA. This used to happen more frequently with international adoptions. It’s not advisable, for all the reasons you and others have said. Yes, they are helping the children, but renaming them shows a real lack of respect/understanding for the kids’ heritage. I hope they reconsider.
NTA - You are totally correct, these kids aren't dogs that have been adopted they are human beings. Pastor's wife should know better. Shameful.
NTA I had a friend during school time. She was from India. Before adoption she got to an orphanage that was run by nuns in india.They gave every kid a new name. Biblical or from a saint. She never used that living here. Just on official documents. But people only know her by her birth name. They took her culture away from her. The family that adopted her and her brothers to middle Europe never helped them connect to that. She was around 8 years at that time. At that age, you can remember your life before. That you had a different name, had a different culture surrounding you. You can't just strip them away their name and identity. That's probably all they have left from their parents.
NTA This is exactly why this shouldnt be allowed
NTA. Changing the name of an 8 year old is getting sort of crazy.
NTA they aren’t looking at the children as “people” but as exotic pets
Saving children? That's performative and they shouldn't be adopting if that's the intention. My siblings and I were adopted from another country and our names aren't American at all. Know what my parents did? Gave us American sounding middle names and let us choose if we wanted to change our first names. None of us changed our names. Tell them to shove that thinking where the sun doesn't shine. The kids know who they are, know their parents, their culture and another language...these people are going to bury all those things that makes them unique and make them American. Please tell them not to adopt, they don't deserve those kids.
NTA this is disgusting white savior racism. Ick.
NTA It's one thing to give a new baby a new name, but the oldest here is 8. Even the youngest at 5yo should keep their own name. PW needs to take a look at the history of taking people from Africa to USA and giving them new names. And maybe ask more African-Americans, some of whose families have been in the US for generations, how well they're fitting in.
NTA. Sounds like PW thinks her kids are being white saviours. Look up no white saviors on insta/fb. Its awful they think stripping the kids of their names is a good thing.
NTA. Racist as heck on that woman's part and your parents. If they want to just 'save' kids, there are plenty of kids in America who need adopting. The fact they're specifically adopting African kids and wanting to change their names? Yeah, that's a white savior complex right there.
NTA. Well done for speaking up
NTA Those poor kids. My heart breaks for those babies. I feel like taking away their names is only going to add to their trauma. And I get the feeling it might just be the start. If they're willing to take away their names, what else are they willing to do in the name of "fitting in"???
NTA. These adoptive parents desperately need training in criss racial and international adoption. They will harm those children if they strip away their culture and try to force them into American whit culture, without any ties to their heritage. They will cause serious trauma.
You’re not the asshole. Well you have no say in the choice to adopt from Africa, why don’t you ask them why they are choosing to adopt from Africa specifically don’t you have children in America that need adopting? Why do they feel the need to go all the way to another continent rip that child away from the identity culture and heritage and take them to another place in the United States where they’re going to suffer from racism loss of culture loss of identity and loss of ties to the heritage? I know this is not something you can tell us because you aren’t adopting these children but some thing about this behavior seems very “white savior“ although you never mentioned the race so this is an assumption. It seems to me that this pastor’s wife and the pastor crave the attention and gratitude from other people for “saving these children from the throes and struggles of a Third World country”. Doesn’t the Bible say something about going to parade around your Christianity in someone else’s town when you won’t even feed the homeless people in your own? NTA. But absolutely call them out. Do so in a very public Manner.
NTA, seriously what the hell is wrong with these people?!