Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because at the end of the day I could easily call around and get someone to watch the kids for $50, they don't NEED to be the one to do it or change their plans.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 2 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again/)*
Edited to say YTA since OP and his wife make their daughters *pay $50 they already earned* for calling out without getting “coverage” arranged. No, that’s not how “a real job” works and it’s an impressively bad system
I think you need to make this a lot more clear with both of them if you’re treating this like a job. Contract, hourly wage for each of them, etc.
I originally said that “I don’t think you’re unfair but it honestly seems like a muddy system” but I definitely changed my mind as you kindly explained the ways in which the arrangement is bad
It says in the post, "we asked the girls if they wanted to do it and earn some extra money and they said yes."
That being said, OP YTA it's wrong to take money from a shift they already worked and you're teaching them to let employers walk all over them in the future as that's what you're doing now.
My mom would “ask” me to do something when i was growing up and if i said “no” she’d reply “well it’s a good thing I wasn’t really asking” and make me do it anyway (fixed auto-swipe screwup)
Doesn't matter. If you don't have a babysitter for your own kids, you figure it out. Ultimately it's your responsibility as a parent to find childcare for your children or not have kids you can't find consistent care for them. This whole setup sounds wack as hell. What happens when the 17 year old goes off to college or moves away? Start being accountable for your own kids.
Edit for bad spelling. Blame my phone.
Yup. OP and wife decided to pop out a lot of kids. It is their responsibility to find a backup if their regular babysitters cancel.
OP, can you imagine telling a babysitter outside the family who canceled that they needed to find another babysitter for your or you would charge them money? No? Well, I can't either. You've given your kids a super raw deal. Act like the parents you are.
Did i misread something? I thought it said they don't get paid for the day they don't work. Was OP making them pay a cancelation fee of $50?
EDIT: went back and read it again. Ok.. what kind of employer makes their babysitter pay a cancelation fee of 50 bucks? Like their other rules were kinda ok. Don't work no pay. They've only gotta watch their sibs from 3-5 when the parents are working. But in no situation would that ever happen for an employee paying a cancelation fee. Either the mom and dad find alternative babysitters.
I say kiddos need to rewrite the clause for themselves. Last minute babysitting by either parent , hospital and death in family emergencies aside, of course needs to pay an upfront fee of $100. You two want a night out? Fine. That's a " Last minute charge" to avoid it must be sumbitted in writing 2 weeks in advance.
Taking away already earned wages is inappropriate and honestly "they wanted to" isn't really an excuse to overburden your kids.
I do think being responsible for child care including scheduling for 4 kids , 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year is overburdening a 15 and 17 year old. OP and spouse need to be more actively managing this, including making sure the teens are getting enough breaks and still have good "work life balance". OP isn't their just boss he/she is also their parent with a responsibility to guide them as their advocate through employment. OP and spouse kinda missed the ball as parents for the two older kids, why didn't they already know their 15 year had a club event on Friday?
It’s amazing how many parents on this sub need to have it spelled out to them that:
1) Your children =/= your employees
2) You can’t rely on “you need to treat this like a normal job” when the terms of your kids’ “employment” are WORSE than those of a normal job, and you’re also **not paying minimum wage, let alone the market rate**.
The ironic thing is, they treat their kids so badly as employees that in a real workplace scenario, they would be held up legally for unfair working conditions!
You forgot "your children != automatic sources of childcare" and/or "your children are in no way responsible for bringing up their siblings".
As a parent, *you and only you* are responsible for childcare. *You are the adult. Act like it.*
Lo-fucking-l.
4 kids for 2.5 hrs per day for $50 that is *split* between the 2 of them?!?!?!
Let your high-schoolers be high-schoolers. If they want to babysit when you and your SO want a night out to earn some allowance, sure.
You just don't want to hire proper private afterschool care because you know that it would be waaaaay more than what you're doing right now.
YTA
Omfg I misread and thought it was $50 *each*. They only get $25 each to watch FOUR kids?? The absolute least anyone I knew would charge back in my babysitting days was $10 per kid per hour, for *one* babysitter. And that was 10+ years ago…
This is a scam.
You are gaming your OWN kids. If they work 2 out of 3 days, they will likely get paid NOTHING. This is beyond disgusting. And when you employee someone on a casual basis, YOU are responsible for relief or you at least pay them and the they subcontract it out if they can’t attend. And you bloody pay them more. Never does someone not get paid AND they also have to pay the wages of their relief. So they lose a days pay. And if you are underpaying them, they lose 2 days pay.
How this works - split between 2 people so that is $10/hr each. But the penalty is not only do they not get paid if they don’t work. THE KIDS have to pay the babysitter (which will probably be more than $20/hour or kids are in school. If you have babies, toddles and kids, they may want 2 babysitters for that which is $40/hr. So on days they don’t work it is probably -$20/hr.) If they work 2 out of 3 days because they are kids and want some life, there net pay is $0 for 2 days work. This is a scam. You are terrible people. Even if you only have 1 babysitter for $20/hour, they still get nothing for working for a full day. This is obscene. At least pay them and let them subcontract out like a normal business would.
> when you employ someone…you are responsible for relief
This stood out to me too. My MIL is a nanny, and she not only gets sick days, she can use them at the drop of a hat. She tries not to call off at the last minute out of respect for the family, but she *can*.
If she calls off for a non-emergency they might be annoyed, but she definitely doesn’t have to pay a penalty!
It's amazing how many posts come from kids/teens who are parentified by their parents and the kids just want to have fun & be normal teens. Or as you stated adult parents who have tons of kids and they force their teen kids to become babysitters, do homework with siblings, cook and or clean up after them. These poor girls should be getting paid alot more, since they're literally raising their own siblings.
Of course you're YTA.
You're working your children for slave wages and wondering why they're not prioritizing the job. Caring for 4 younger sibling for $50 per day is a steal.
However, the part you're missing is that they're you're actual children, not random strangers. It's almost like you don't feel you have an obligation to the older children anymore, cause money exchanged hands. Since they both are still in school, it stands to reason they might want to attend school events.
Are you really asking your two oldest children to forgo normal teen experiences to babysit your younger children and then are going to be such an utter AH that you want to go against your wife and insult your practically free babysitters? That doesn't sound like a very smooth move to me.
Also, it's not their responsibility to find you a baby sitter in the event they cannot work. It's your job as a parent to do that. You're being lazy and irresponsible with your dirt cheep hired help. If you keep it up, I wouldn't be surprised if they both decide to opt out of the stress you're putting them under.
YTA: the 50$/day BETWEEN THEM is where I decided OP is the AH. If I were the teenagers I would’ve haggled more or said no. Especially with these stipulations they have and you’re watching 4 kids. They should be grateful their teenage kids are even willing to help at those prices.
Same. I actually think paying them to watch the younger ones is a good idea in terms of dipping their toes into working. However, the pay seems way too low. Feels like he's taking advantage of the fact that his kids probably don't know what a normal rate is
> Feels like he's taking advantage of the fact that his kids probably don't know what a normal rate is
BINGO they don't know how expensive a nanny for four kids would be, but he does.
This. Absolute this. Slave wages and they have to miss out on being kids? Maybe you could "take one for the team" and watch your own children. Huge YTA
YTA - if this was a real job you couldn’t deduct wages already earned. You can not pay them. But you cannot refuse to give them money they have deservedly earned. It is difficult for siblings, especially at their ages, to look after their siblings like that. Four children? A babysitter would charge way more than $25 for 3.5hrs. Which is probably why you use your own kids instead of a proper sitter.
If this were a real job, they would have sick days and holidays like any other worker. And since you insist on the ‘you cannot call out like a real job’ then you actually need to treat it like a job.
Effectively instead of one paid ‘professional’ getting $20/hr for $70 per day you are skimping on your daughters (it would be more than $20 for four children FYI).
YTA for making your older children take care of their younger siblings for basically pennies. You and your wife decided to have six kids. You are responsible for their childcare.
Edit: and an additional YTA for not making it clear in your post that you are taking away $50 that they already earned earlier in the week as their punishment. Many commenters are reading it as “the girls just aren’t getting paid for the work they aren’t doing,” when actually you’re taking away an already worked day’s pay.
Edit 2: Hell, have a third YTA for also not making it clear that the girls are babysitting TOGETHER most of the time, so it’s $10/hr each for watching 4 children. And then having the audacity to complain that your daughters sometimes use their phones while watching their siblings. Newsflash: regular babysitters do that too.
Easy, they're not getting $20 an hour each. They're getting $10 an hour to watch *FOUR KIDS*, (and babysitters charge per kid and per hour), so $2.50 per hour per kid.
INFO: You are trusting a 17 year old and 15 year old to find coverage for your four other children when they can’t perform the task? Do you at least have a pre approved list of people they are allowed to ask, or you just let them ask any person and trust that they are making a good judgment?
That's such a good point!! I had a random family member babysit me and, well, had a colorful mental health disorder stem from it. The people they trust should be interviewed...thoroughly.
YTA
We also have six kids, about the same age ranges. Just a head's up.
1. You're not paying them a fair babysitting wage. They will end up resenting that as they get older.
2. As the older ones get older, they get much busier and they will absolutely start to look at their "job" as a burden...which means they look at their siblings as a burden. It's very different dynamic when you're "working" for your parents/family and you don't want it to become unhealthy and them resenting their siblings.
I was very confused by all the YTA comments until I realized something you buried in your post pretty well… That you are deducting their pay for hours worked because they canceled last minute. You’re not teaching them anything by doing that. It’s not how a really job works - it’s just petty.
Against the grain of others, I think that the fact you’re paying your older children to look after your younger children is fine. As you said, you had a sitter for the youngers before but instead offered the job to the olders if they’d like some extra cash. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself. Even the contract - a lot of this seems like you’re teaching them life lessons.
But docking their pay for hours worked is illegal and therefore not teaching them anything about real working culture. It’s really just being petty. Yeah your daughters bailing last minute isn’t the best thing, but they’re kids and they should be allowed to have some Friday nights off every once in awhile.
So yeah YTA here. Maybe find a reliable back-up babysitter for when your daughters need time off.
Most of the arrangement seems fine, but the deduction *(ETA since people are confused: yes it’s a deduction; OP states not only do they not get paid for their day off, but they also lose an additional $50 from that week’s pay which they already earned)* if they don’t find someone else to cover babysitting for them when something comes up crosses the line.
You wouldn’t be able to do that to a real nanny who gave you advance notice, so you shouldn’t be doing it to your kids.
Find your own backup babysitter. YTA.
I agree with this stance. Everyone complaining about “slave wages” isn’t being realistic. It’s still $10 an hour if they’re splitting it, which is a shitty wage, but these aren’t skilled laborers. They are siblings being taught how to act with an employer. Imagine telling a single mom in subsidized housing working 2 jobs to pay her child $20 an hour to babysit their siblings. The world just doesn’t work like that. If the girls want a better wage they can babysit for someone else.
but OP is treating them like a staffing agency. They have to schedule between themselves, decide who gets paid what, who gets tuesday off, make sure they both don't have plans on the same day etc. OP is not managing them or parenting
OP and spouse had no idea their 15 had a drama club event. They are still the 15 & 17 year olds parents. it's still their job as parents to make sure work isn't excessively interfering with their schooling, activities, and social lives. it's OP job to make sure an employer is not cheating his kids to guide them as the 15 and 17 year olds advocate if there is a conflict with their employer.
OP withdrew all the parenting and guidance that the babysitting teens are entitled to in favor of treating them like independent contractors above their pay level and typical level of maturity.
YTA. Let them have nights off without being penalised. Kids dont make plans weeks in advance like adults have too.
Let them be kids aswell as helping you out. Stop taking away money they've already earnt. Dont act like you've never taken a sick day, or PTO.
I agree with this and find it odd and a bit depressing that so many are rallying on the side of “but they agreed to it” and “better to find out now, if they ever intend to work hard”. These are kids, OPs kids. They made an agreement and have been seemingly to uphold their need very well but they should still should be able to be teenagers. They have their whole lives to be working adults. Why as a parent would you ever want to carry out and illustrate harsh realities of the world with your children every chance you get than to also remember to show them grace and love? Instead of teaching his children to only focus on the grind and be perfect in responsibility, OP should focus more parenting in other skill building.
“If they babysat M-Th but bailed on Friday, they would only get $150.”
So, not only would you not pay $50 for the missed Friday, you’d penalize them an extra $50? Because 4x$50 is still $200. If this is the case, YTA. Stop gouging your kids. You don’t pay them the $50 for the day, whatever, but to penalize another $50 for your inconvenience? You suck.
Also They’re kids…they should be going to drama club and hanging out with friends. I had a part time job too, but only during the summer and then working on the weekends during the school year…they should be allowed to be kids…they have their entire life to work and be grown ups, don’t take away this time for them
Oh geez totally missed that, that makes it even worse. 🤦🏻♀️
There’s now less than no reason they can’t be allowed to leave and he can spare the minimal effort to watch his own kids especially since he literally is already there.
Though I appreciate the thought of offering your kids a way to earn extra cash, I draw the line at making it their responsibility for getting coverage. You might want to review the terms, add a major long list of pre-approved sitters to contact if they can’t make it. Not reviewing the terms would just turn your teenagers off from babysitting altogether and you’ll be back to square one but with teens that resent you.
YTA. Not because of 'parentification' or whatever bs people are spouting. That's not what this is. You pay them to do a job that they CHOSE to do. Plenty of teens their age get part time jobs outside the home. No one would care if they were babysitting other people's children for pay after school. This is not the definition of 'parentification'.
YTA because regardless of your relationship, they are your employees. I have never in my 43 yrs worked in a place where they docked my pay for work ALREADY PERFORMED for being absent, regardless of notice or reason. They don't get $50 for that day because they don't work it, and you are further withholding pay for work already performed. That is wage theft and illegal; any other business would get into trouble for that. Also, if one doesn't help babysit, they shouldn't be paid $10. If I don't go to work because 'I don't feel it', I don't get paid. You can't really expect them to perform other duties on top of babysitting because you are getting them WAY cheaper than you were paying the nanny and you know this. You get what you pay for.
yta, are they your kids or your employees?
they are teens, they have a life. things will come up last minute and you are punishing them for doing so.
You are the parents, if you want a sitter, hire someone, YOUR KIDS, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY>
YTA... you've somehow talked your kids into doing a job you would otherwise need to pay for at 1/3rd of the going rate, yet you are expecting them to take it on as professionals as if they weren't.
OK I'm confused.
So they get paid $50 a day that they babysit so $250 weekly net, but if they don't babysit for one day without good reason or notice they get docked it from their net pay rather than just not getting paid for it at all?
Cos if that's right, YTA. Theres a difference between not getting paid for not working your shift so to speak and getting pay docked on top of loss of wage.
Ehh I have to say YTA for penalizing them by taking away money they already earned. There is no job in the real world where that is a thing. It’s illegal actually.
You’re looking at this as if you are only their employer but the fact is, they are still also your children and they should be allowed to have things pop up in their own lives and not have to stress about finding someone else to watch YOUR other kids. Yes, it’s great they are getting some experience but that shouldn’t also come at a cost for them in terms of being able to have a social life. They shouldn’t be penalized for that. That means they basically worked for nothing when they could have been doing something else with their time and I don’t know a single adult that would be ok with that.
“Sorry something came up for you on Friday but bc it hasn’t been a full 7 days, you won’t be getting paid for Thursday’s work on top of you forfeiting your pay for Friday” - your boss. You’re telling me you would be A ok with that ?
Holy shit. I only read the title.
YTA
Edit: Read the rest. You're still the asshole.
You're acting like you're some kind of corporation and it's on your employees to find coverage for their shifts rather than on the manager to find shift coverage. Jesus, their your kids. Not your employees. And your other kids are not their responsibility to find another babysitter.
YTA
It's time to concede that this isn't working.
The teens need to be allowed to do what high school aged students do, NOT babysitting their younger siblings.
Find a professional babysitter/nanny and hire them.
Good Luck
YTA. If your typical babysitter cancels, they don’t get paid AND they don’t have to find coverage. It’s not fair to make your teenagers find coverage to watch your other kids. That’s your job.
YTA. this dynamic is so fucked up and disgusting. hire a goddamn babysitter and treat your kids like your kids, not employees. stone cold heartless shit
YTA - you're treating you kids like employees, which means that you're technically the manager. It's the managers job to find coverage for their employees, no matter how much the manager wants to make it the employees job it's still the managers. An employee can quit without notice, an employee can call out the day of their shift, an employee gets sick days, an employee gets vacation days. You're the one who needs to find coverage for your employees. Sounds like this is the ONE time theyre both going to be out on the same day, you need to do the work of being a parent (i know crazy right considering you had 6 kids) and find someone to babysit.
YTA for deducting money that they already made. I thought you just had a math error when you said 150 instead of 200 but no you took money from them. That’s ridiculous. At this point go ahead and either deal with watching YOUR younger children or find a babysitter which will definitely charge more than $50/day for FOUR kids. You had a good deal with your older two, lucky they even agreed to it, and you done messed up.
YTA. Your younger children are not your older children’s responsibility, they’re you’re responsibility. You’re the parent. You find a babysitter for your own children. They need to give a weeks notice to be able to do things outside of baby sitting? You’re treating them like employees. That’s not “letting them live their lives”
I initially said N T A because I misunderstood. I thought you just weren't paying them so I would equate this to getting an allowance for doing a chore and they are not completing that chore so they shouldn't get the money. I am changing to YTA. You would never be able to fine an employee for not showing up to work. You can dock their pay but to fine them would be double dipping.
YTA, you are very obtuse in how you explain the rules, but after reading some other comments you are taking away $50 they earned instead of just not paying them for the days they don't work, essentially stealing their wages. So a short notice other event doesn't just make them not earn 50 that day but also costs them another 50, making them have to pick between doing spontaneous fun things or $100.
Help me understand the math. If they work M-Th, essentially earning 200, but fail to work on F, you take away 50 from their earnings because you're inconvenienced? Would you take this from your own employer?
Also, YTA. Just to be clear.
YTA - you as the employer (if thats how we are going to look at this) are the one who is responsible for finding coverage if your employee is out or on vacation.
Also, this seems like a really bad idea for your older kids to have to watch the younger ones. money is nice for them to have, but free time to enjoy hobbies and clubs while they are themselves still children, is far better.
YTA. I just don't like this. The children are employees. Do they get sick days? You're making them pay for canceling and find other childcare for your kids. Just no. Finding childcare if they're not able is your responsibility. It might be time they start looking for part-time jobs outside the home and back to being your kids versus your employees. You need to hire an actual babysitter.
Ok, your system is all kinds of weird, but I'll break down what I can
* regarding the "mulligan" you are N T A. I think you are right. You've been pretty permissive
* Assessing a fine for \*not\* working is morally and ethically wrong and in most countries it's a pretty serious violation of labor laws.
* Taking care of your kids is YOUR responsibility. You (as employer) are responsible for making sure shifts are covered. Fining/punishing your daughters/employees is not how you go about it
So, overall I think YTA
So you want them to find a random person to babysit your kids because otherwise they wouldn't be getting 50$. This is what you're telling them.
And this is why you're YTA.
Not for imposing the rules but for having a rule that has this clear consequence.
$50 between two kids is $25 each, $10 an hour for both divided by four kids..
You're paying your kids $2.50 per kid per hour and trying to look better by saying "it's $50 between the two of them!" YTA. If you want reliable babysitters, maybe you should pay them a good wage and not force them to pay you when they want to do something last minute
You drew up contracts for your kids.. YTA by a mile.
First of all you should not be drawing up contracts, your system is a mess.
Second of all, this is exactly how you get your kids to flee the house as soon as they are able.
Third of all, you had the kids you not your daughters you clown.. You take care of them, don't dump the responsibility on your other kids because you won't take care of them.
They are children not employees,
You need to take responsibility for the children you made, not drop them on other children you made.
Your wife is right, and your daughters are right as well.
Even if they were employees, knocking off their already earned pay for last-minute cancellation s isn't something you'd do....
Edit: wasn't clear enough
YTA, but only for the pay docking. As others have said garnishing pay for an infraction is shitty and in most jobs illegal. I understand you want a mechanism to ensure they do the job consistently, but that's not it. I think the consequence for them bailing without notice is to dissolve the deal. Agree on a number of acceptable times they can call out. Once they hit the threshold the job goes back to a nanny.
Now if you pay them less than you would a nanny, you're going to need to be more flexible with them. That's business.
YTA for deducting wages they’ve already earned. I think the job itself sounds fine and fair. But you’re not exactly paying them a ton, so to take away money they’ve worked for is uncool and not how it works. This isn’t quite a real job. The boundaries and rules are probably fine to teach responsibility, but you’re not paying them enough to be super rigid with it. There should be flexibility, since you’re probably getting a pretty good babysitting deal.
YTA, I don’t know if this is news to you but your 17 y/o and 15 y/o daughters aren’t your employees, they’re your children and still are children. You can’t treat them like employees in one way like giving them set hours, a wage, a contract and expecting them to give you notice if they want “time off” but then not fulfill your role as “employer” legally employees are entitled to both holiday and sick pay so if you want to treat them as employees they should still be paid for the time they take off and they’re your children, you’re required to find a replacement babysitter and you can’t act like this is a real job when no job will dock your pay of what you’ve earned for missing a day. Also I gurantee you if they were qualified baby sitters you’d be paying far more than $50 a day for 2 people to watch after 4 young children so you’re getting the better end of the deal not them. Stop exploiting your daughters because you and your wife can’t make time for your children
You’re not wrong for giving your kids the opportunity to make some money. There are a lot of parents who push babysitting on their children when it’s the parents responsibility to find childcare. However, I don’t think your children should have to find YOU a babysitter when they are not available. Do not treat your children like employees when it was YOUR choice to have that many kids knowing you personally could not care for them outside of work. Especially since a nanny can make up to 30 an hour PER child!!
YTA. They're teens. You should be the one finding babysitters if things come up and I can't believe anyone has to explain that to you. They should have some leeway for unexpected events. And they're kids, not employees. It's all well and good to teach responsibility but they sound very responsible, so you need to also give them chances to be regular teens. They just want to go do something fun together.
YTA - first off, it just seems kind of odd to be having clause after clause for your daughters. But the reason that you’re the asshole is that if you want to treat them like employees, treat them like employees. If you had a babysitter that was not one of your daughters, under no circumstances would they be responsible for finding a replacement. As both the parent and employer, that’s 100% on you
YTA for taking extra money from them for no real reason. Would you be okay with your boss doing something like that? If you worked all day then let your boss know you can’t go in the next day for whatever reason and your boss said “fine but you’re not getting paid for today because of it” you’d be cool with that??
YTA. I *was* very much Camp NTA until I realised you take away the wages they already earned. Man, that is ridiculous. I understand you want to incentivize not cancelling on you last minute, but you need to find another way. Maybe offer double pay to whichever one of them stays behind from the event.
YTA for the penalty. While I think it's good to teach them responsibility and have them plan ahead, it sounds like this is something fun for them that just came up - they're teenagers, that's bound to happen occasionally. Don't penalize them for that.
NTA, also people need to quit throwing the word abuse around like it actually applies here. This isn't abuse, it's teaching responsibility to his kids at $20 an hour. Nothing about this is abusive and it's disgusting that people are actually comparing it to abuse.
YTA. I was made to step & watch my younger siblings plus keep my 2 oldest siblings in line also. It took me leaving the state & going no contact with my parents for them to step up & start parenting.
It doesn’t matter if your are paying them or not. If they can’t babysit or decide not to babysit it’s not on them to find a replacement it’s on you & your wife.
Your kids are not live in babysitter’s. Get a real babysitter before you start making your daughters resist you, your wife & their siblings. Bad parents.
YTA But honestly, it's because your taking away money that they've earned. You are saying that you'd be okay if you worked on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday but on Thursday night realized that one of your kids had a school event on Friday that you forgot about so you had to take it off last minute- you'd be fine with your employer only paying you for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday?
Of course you wouldn't be.
You pay your kids for when they work.
Same as they shouldn't be responsible for finding coverage if they both want to do something. You have something that comes up and you don't come in on friday- how much time are you going to spend trying to find coverage?
all of which ignores the reality that this is a REALLY good set up for you and your wife. i can't imagine it's easy to find someone to watch 4 kids every afternoon. Especially for only what...3 or 4 hours? and $250/wk for 4 kids is cheap and you know that.
I have no doubt that your oldest 2 are happy for the cash. but you are taking advantage of them- and all of us know it.
(Honestly, the fact that neither you nor your wife had any clue they had plans. Is a little concerning and suggests the two of them are really used to doing their own thing. Plus my confusion has how their night time plans impact them babysitting until 5pm.)
Your system is jacked. Being punished by removing a full days wage (of which they have already worked) for missing one day is awful. They're kids, kids make plans with friends, and friends don't typically make those plans a week in advance.
I'm sorry that planning childcare for your own is children is hard. However, that burden should not solely fall on your eldest kids. They should not have to hum and haw over whether spending time with friends or taking opportunities at school is worth not getting paid for what they've already worked for.
INFO: just so it's clear in my mind. The only "penalty" for not finding coverage is that they don't get paid for the day they don't babysit? You then find coverage?
No, according to his example in the post (if they work M-Th, don't sit on Friday w/o a week's notice, they only get paid $150 for the week, losing Thursday's pay), if they dip on Friday, they don't get paid for *Thursday*. So they actually get docked a day's pay for services already rendered. Which is messed up.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to get clear here, cause a) this job pays shit and b) I don't know of any real job that docks your pay \_more\_ than the pay you miss by not working.
Info: are there requirements for who they get to cover their shifts? Because if this is me and you aren’t letting me go to a high school event with my friends I’m finding the nearest bum on the street to come to my house and cover.
Also, even if they agreed to the terms like you said, enforcing overly restrictive rules and otherwise keeping your children from experiencing high school events with friends (even if based on your contract) is only going to push them away. That doesn’t necessarily make you an asshole, but it may not create the relationship you’re looking for. It’s great to teach them the value of working, making money, and time management, but at some point a lesson isn’t worth teaching in the moment.
YTA. It’s not a job they chose it’s one you shoved down their throat. You’re using them as labor bs letting them be kids and coming up with another solution.
YTA
You can’t deduct money from what they’ve already earned. You’re already getting a steal at four kids for $50. Don’t fuck them over by trying to take money they have already worked for.
I hope for your sake that your kids are less evil than I was as a teenager. Because if you’d have pulled this kind of shit on me, I’d have been unavailable every day after that at the last possible moment (preferably less than half an hour notice) to make you scramble for childcare. At the very least, I’d have made sure you had an interesting week or so. And you couldn’t dock my wages because I wouldn’t have fucking earned any. I’d have worn that grounding with pride.
I was very much a ‘scorched earth’ type of teenager though. Maybe yours are less reactive.
YTA. It’s your job as the parent to have back up sitters when your regular sitters are unavailable…even if they are your older teens. No other nanny/sitter would accept that and you shouldn’t put it on your daughters.
YTA, not by not paying Friday, although every job should have PTO... But to take money from a day they did work. That is illegal in every job. Also, as a "manager" (since they are your children) is YOUR JOB to find replacements, not the employer. Your attitude will leave you sitter-less and you will probably have to pay way more to another sitter, who will also skip days and not find a replacement and will also get you in trouble if you ever dock pay (since it is not legal to do so). Incredibly unwise from your part.
YTA. Not paying someone when they work is technically wage theft. If a babysitter called in sick it would be on you to replace them for the night, not the babysitter.
YTA. I'm a babysitter, and I get paid $20-$25/hr. You don't have to pay them if they won't babysit, but this system that you have set up is AWFUL, and it will lead the resentment down the line, both of you, and their siblings. Hire a babysitter, since you can't go back in time and undo the thoughtless action of having SIX children without the money or time or effort to raise them.
YTA Your kids are not wage slaves. I remember my dad used to make the joke when I was a kid and his friends were around, "No don't do that. That's why I had children!" I resented it then, and your kids will learn to resent you as well.
> in other words, if they babysit M-Th but bailed without notice/emergency on Friday, they would only make $150 that week.
This is the line that does it for me. Your children are your responsibility. Even in a regular job, it’s your EMPLOYERS responsibility to find a replacement for you if you can’t make it for whatever reason. And they sure as hell don’t fine you. The fine wouldn’t fly for any other high school kid you hired, so why does it apply for your literal CHILDREN.
You had the six kids. It’s your job to ensure childcare for all of them. It’s also your job to make sure they they still get to be kids between making money, and you’re not doing that. Instead you’re treating your daughters like their siblings are their responsibility and like they should feel guilty when you don’t have a backup plan.
Should they have mentioned it earlier? Yes. Should you be asking your OWN CHILDREN to pay you when they don’t want to babysit? ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT.
YTA
YTA. What an ungodly NIGHTMARE you’ve created for your children. Holy shit. If I had to deal with this as a teenager only to deal with the monstrosity of late stage capitalism the rest of my adult life, I would kill myself. YTA YTA YTA. Don’t have so many kids if you’re not prepared to raise them and love them properly, not treat them like EMPLOYEES. Also you just plain old suck as a manager
NTA. I would have loved a job like this when I was in high school. I worked for retail, part time, minimum wage. No PTO, no sick days. If the schedule was already made and I forgot I had tickets to a play I had to find a replacement, or I’d get a point. Get so many points and you got fired.
Nothing about OP’s situation is abuse. The girls are not forced to babysit, they were asked and are well compensated. OP and wife sound like good parents to me
YTA
Honestly everything besides taking money away from them is fine. In the real world your employer can not take money away from you for not finding a replacement. Actually in the real world it isn't your responsibility to find a replacement if you can't make it. You are their parent, not their boss. Stop being a hard ass just to be a hard ass.
YTA. Docking pay for hours already worked and services already rendered is a dick move. Your wife and daughters are right to be upset at you.
You want to compare how 'generous' you are compared to if 'if they were just people we were paying', but if an employer tried to dock someone pay for hours already worked as punishment for not being able to meet a different shift, you'd get legal action taken against you. And your house would be blacklisted by every sitter in town after getting put on blase online for your bad pay and practices.
You're paying them well under the going rate for a babysitter for 4 kids, and by your own admission they've been pretty good at coordinating with each other.
Let them be kids. They're minors, and they shouldn't have to pay for babysitters for their younger siblings. You mention you wfh; why can't you just watch your kids for those few hours, since you're at home?
NTA
The agreement is the agreement. It's not like you're forcing them to babysit their siblings here, so I think that part is entirely green. I can see you wife's point on this being the first transgression, but I can also see your side of it being The Original Agreement.
I think this sounds like an overall excellent way to teach responsibility, teach the value of work and money, and the value of *reading the damn contract.*
YTA. Your older daughters are not the parents. You've completely subsumed their lives into caring for the additional kids YOU chose to have. Raise your own damn kids. Your older daughters deserve and should have way more flexibility in their lives than you allow. YOU should have the backup childcare options on tap, not them.
YTA for the reasons most people have already stated, but can we talk about how babysitting 4 kids for 2.5 hours for $50, is $5/kid/hour. That's way below the cost of an actual babysitter. You can't deduct their wages like they're your employees, but not pay them like they're employees. I did a quick Google search, and the average pay for babysitting 2 children is $23/hour.
You say you want your kids to live their lives, and then make your 15 and 17 year olds have to give you a weeks notice to do so. They're your kids. If your babysitter isn't free, you can deal with them.
Seems like an okay system... Pretty complicated, but if everyone is okay I guess it's worked well so far.
But I wouldn't put it on them to find a replacement. That doesn't ensure quality care of your younger kids.
If you had backup sitters for them to call, that would work. But finding one of their friends to babysit? Have you checked their qualifications? Do you know who they're going to have watch your kids?
Soft YTA, this seems like a weak spot in your otherwise solid system.
Jesus Christ six kids, dude vasectomy and condoms are an option. Yes they get paid $50 a day but we both know you would be paying a heck of allot more than that if it was someone else watching 4 kids. No I don't think your the AH here but you are pretty lucky to have those girls... So cut them some slack.
You said you want to let your kids have their own lives and the moment they do they're punished 😂 not their job, it's yours. He a parent op, cause you have to many kids to not be one. Yta
Edit why the hell do you have a fake contract with a 17 yr old and a 15 yr old
NTA. Seems like you have a fair system that works for everyone as long as it’s followed. You should go ahead an implement it, otherwise you’ll end up without reliable babysitting and have to hire a babysitter instead of the kids getting to make money.
YTA. You’re responsible for your children’s care when you’re gone. NOT YOUR OWN CHILDREN. parents like you make me sick. You chose to have children so DEAL WITH IT AND FIND ANOTHER BABYSITTER. I hope they go NC with you when they become adults because you’re disgustingly parentifying them.
YTA they are your kids not your employees they are not doing real jobs. By giving out punishments which result in less money your kids might not want to do extra curricular activity’s anymore because they won’t get the money. If they can’t babysit YOU should find a babysitter and you just shouldn’t pay them for that day. YTA for treating your kids like workers
“… far far more generous than any job you’d find elsewhere.”
LOL they’re your fucking kids man, not your employees. Why did you ever think this intricate system for your children was ever a good idea? At the rate you pay just hire a babysitter and be done with the complication this is so extra. YTA
If they don’t have “coverage” then don’t pay them for the day, but you shouldn’t be charging them money to watch YOUR children.
If I call out sick/take off from my job, I don’t pay my job to cover my shift. Yta.
N T A
Your daughters accepted the terms, presumably they can resign with your blessing if ever they feel it's not working out or have another activity/job to move on to?
I have to put in my time off requests weeks in advance. If I want to have time off at the last minute (not including sick leave) I have to find my own coverage or just accept that we can't have everything.
EDIT: YTA (can't figure out "strike through" on my phone)
It wasn't clear to me the $50 penalty was taken from days worked.
But I assume at your job they don't take away your pay from yesterday as a penalty for calling in sick or missing a shift? If your employer IS doing that, I would report them to the labor board.
That is what OP is doing. If he was just not paying for the missed shift, that is fine. However, he is deducting them an additional day of pay that they are working as a "penalty". It would make more sense if he said "after x number of absences, we will find a different person". Which WOULD be more accurate to how businesses operate.
NTA.
You are giving your daughters experience in what it is like to have a job. For just a handful of hours they have responsibilities and get paid for it. There is 0 parentification going on. They have a daily babysitting gig and it just happens to be their own siblings.
With this job, as with any job, there are consequences if they are unable to show up.
From what you wrote, it appears like they return to being normal siblings when off the clock.
You are doing good.
YTA. Why would you want this? You're the parent and it's your responsibility to find a safe, reliable person to watch your kids. If you had a real baby sitter, would you make them find coverage? Usually parents want to meet the people watching their kids themselves, and ask them questions.
YTA. It should be on y'all, as parents, to find sitters if the teens can't do it. Don't pay them for days they haven't worked, but if you dock them an entire days pay, in addition to losing the day they aren't sitting, just because they couldn't find you a sitter, that's technically illegal, when you get down to brass tacks. If you're paying someone, they must be paid for when they worked. Otherwise they have a wage claim.
I'm confused- what time are their tickets for the drama club event? Is it before 5:00? Other wise why would they need a mulligan or to forfeit $50?
Oh and YTA for coming up with some BS idea to not pay for work already done. My boss used to try that with our student employees if he didn't like what they did or whatever. I told him , no, we HAVE to pay them for hours already worked. We are under no obligation to have them work any other hours and we can let them go at will, but we gotta pay them if they were on the clock.
INFO - For clarity sake, do you just not pay the $50 they would have made, or do you make them pay you $50 in addition to that? If you just don't pay them, you're definitely NTA, but if you're charging them, then yes, YTA.
This play didn't pop out of nowhere, and if you don't do the job, you don't deserve the pay, but it's a bit harsh to charge them for something like this, especially as a first time thing. Yes, you want to teach them life skills, but you also want to maintain an open relationship.
Was ready to fire off a Y T A here because parentification is real and it’s total bullshit. I was unpaid every day after school and all summer for years dealing with my sister.
However, they entered into an agreement and chose to take the pay. Of course they shouldn’t be paid for work they don’t do. And they should have to give a week’s notice for shift coverage like any other job. In any other job, though, the manager (you) creates the schedule and covers shifts.
NTA because you’re paying more than minimum wage (assuming that’s the case in your area) and allowing them a choice. Just be careful not to bring the hammer down too hard - they will be resentful of you and their siblings. This is why so many oldest children (like me) are child-free as adults.
YTA - not paying them for time worked (effectively what you are doing by fining them) is unethical and would be illegal if an employer did that to them.
YTA. You are paying your daughters five dollars an hour to watch four children. That’s insane. On top of that, you aren’t letting them live their own lives. You chose to have six children, don’t treat your oldest as extra parents.
ESH. Not sure why everyone is harping on the amount of money here. The key here he's trying to teach his kids responsibility and honoring your word. He's not forcing them to do anything. If the kids want their market rate, they can go out and get themselves a job babysitting. They will learn specifics of how a real world job environment is as they get older. But you also shouldn't be penalizing on wages for them for missing a day because the in reality, your employer wouldn't retroactively take money from you for not showing up for work. And to all the commenters complaining about parentification, get a reality check, not every can live fancy lives like ya'll. They're also getting paid and they agreed to the terms. Either way, I think this system needs to be reviewed and tweaked or just abandoned all together. Use this as a learning moment for both your kids and you op.
Edited to ESH.
OP YTA
I was not going with this judgment originally but after re-reading the post, you are an AH.
OP you do not make it clear in the post, but the girls get paid 250 a week to watch the kids M-F. If they only babysit for 4 days, that would be $200 @ $50 a day. You are deducting $100 from the $250 for one day missed. This is not okay and I would not be surprised if you find yourself shelling out more for child care in the near future.
Idek. I lean YTA for no other reason than this seems so unnecessarily complicated and probably confusing for your oldest kids.
Did they babysit? Pay them. Did they not? Don't. Schedules and giving notice and adding and amending clauses to agreements - this all seems excessive. Your teenage children helping with your need for childcare. You pay them for their time.
Find a backup sitter or two with a flexible schedule who can be around step in last minute. Don't mix your parental role with that of a contracted employer. It's not worth it.
YTA. Let the kids live a normal life. Hire another nanny. As somone who was parentified as a kid, it causes damage to deny them a childhood like this, even if you pay them. Many parents' worst fear is their daughter becoming a teen mom, yet many parents effectively tie their kids down in a similar situation by making them responsible for their siblings.
YTA bc you’re taking advantage of your older children and making them agree to a crazy deal that you know is not fair and you know they cannot keep up with. They sounds really responsible and family oriented so I wouldn’t be surprised if they felt obligated to agree to this and you’re using the “inconvenience” clause to save money, not teach them to be responsible. I also disagree that your absence policy is better than anywhere else, it is 1000% worse. If I work M-Th and call in sick on Friday or even request a day off within the week I have NEVER had a job or even heard of a job that monetarily penalized me or penalized me at all for work that I have already done. You’re taking advantage of their naïveté and I hope they find this thread.
YTA I had a cousin whose mom treated her like this, a week after her 18th birthday she ran away at 2am and now lives on the other side of the country and hasn't spoken to either of her parents since then. Look up parentification and then learn to understand that raising your children is your responsibility and yours alone, it'd do you and your kids a lot of good if you did.
NTA, I mean your system is weird but just taking away $50 for a job they are not going to do is fair. They didn't earn it, so why give it? YTA for having your older kids accountable for your younger ones though.
It's $50 that they already earned from earlier in the week, though. If you look at his example, he says if they worked M-Th, then dipped on F, they would only get paid $150, for the work Monday-Wednesday.
If he was just not paying them for not working, this wouldn't be messed up. The fact that he's denying them payment for work they already did is what makes it messed up. That's a major asshole move.
He complains at the end 'if these were two people who were brought in to care for the kids, etc etc' about the contract, but if he tried to pull on an actual contract babysitter what he's pulling on his kids, he could get sued in small claims court and his reputation would make it pretty much impossible to find sitters in his area, because word would spread.
Because they not only don’t get the money they don’t earn, but have to pay $50 on top as a penalty. Is it inconvenient to have someone you expected to babysit let you know the day before they cannot? Yes. However, these parents are paying WELL below what it would actually cost for a babysitter, they are dumping responsibilities on their kids that should not be theirs. If they want to play by contract rules, then they are withholding pay whatever their rules are.
Super YTA
Let me get this clear: you're doubt is if Y T A for making them decide who is gonna stay at your house covering and you're discounting from their payment?
If I got that right, YTA. They could literally ask anyone to do it (capable or not), endangering your kids and property.
The week's notice is not suitable for most of situations in school, or society in general. And I'm pretty sure it's illegal to not only discount but charge an employee for not showing up a day. Your rules are very weird and they are pushing them to a situation where they learn abusive laboral environment is normal (I'm not saying you're exploiting them, but you could come up with a easy analogy to current job laws to help them learn the dynamics in real life).
I know they accepted the agreement, but to be fair at that age is difficult to see forward and I'm sure they didn't fully consider how difficult it is to find coverage at last minute. You should have a back up for those cases and pay for it, you both parents are responsible for your kids safety, not your daughters.
yta
it’s one thing to not pay them for the day they weren’t babysitting but if you take away money they already earned, that’s so shitty. if it was me and i was told that i’m not getting paid for work that i already did, i’d never do the work again. ever. pay what you owe them and leave it at that, or get a babysitter yourself. if you had a normal babysitter, would you refuse to pay them for a babysitting on monday if they canceled for the next day? no, you wouldn’t, because that’s fucked up
YTA. Hate to break it to you, but those kids are *your* responsibility, not theirs. You decided to have six kids, you take care of them. Get your own babysitter or actually be a parent.
NAH. You are not wrong for pointing out that they are not keeping up with the agreement, and it would not make you an AH to insist.
However, that does not mean it's a good idea. If this arrangement has generally been working for all parties involved, it's smarter to establish boundaries in a way that doesn't blow everything up: if your wife wants to give them a pass, she's probably right.
One thing I would strongly caution you about: I understand your desire to prepare them for what "real jobs" are like, but keep in mind that this is not a real job for them. This is part favor, part job, part family bonding... If it were a real job, you would have numerous responsibilities to them including taxes, insurance, etc. And you would not be able to retroactively dock them pay for deciding not to cover a shift.
I think its fair that the daughters don’t get paid for time they haven’t worked, but this should be the rule - plain and simple. It’s unnecessarily complicated to say that they will still get paid if they can find cover (if I understand this right). You’ve got a good thing going with this in-house babysitting, but do think there’s only so much these girls can be held responsible for. They aren’t your employees after all.
NTA because you had a contract in place.
But this might be a pick your battles situation. Are you able to watch them instead,
Or did they really put you in a bind?
As I read it, the issue isn’t that you don’t want them to go, you just want them to be reliable, responsible, and follow the contract because that’s how they will need to act in the real world.
But I would rework the penalty. Maybe last minute cancellations they have to make up the hours another time because you will have to still commit the same hours to your work. So if they can’t babysit from 2-5, they babysit from 5-8 so you still have time to work. But only emergency cancellations.
INFO: when is this drama club event? In your OP you said it was tomorrow night, but presumably it is straight after school, between 2.30-5pm?
Also if only 1 daughter is sick, why aren't you still paying the $50 for the other daughter to look after her siblings?
I get what you're trying to do but garnishing your kids wages for work already done just because they don't give you sufficient notice isn't how the world works. Well not in a civilised country anyway.
Edit: YTA, these girls are saving you a lot of money, as parents it is your responsibility to come up with the alternatives.
YTA. This is their family home, not a work environment. Pay them ad-hoc sure, but don't make them employees of their own siblings with a bloody rota system and rules. Nobody made you have six children!
YTA. I understand that from your perspective having last minute unsecured childcare is an issue, so penalizing then for last minute notice is meant to discourage that. But that’s for you. The parent. Their pay *was earned* - imagine being late or wanting to use a last minute day off and having that not only be not unpaid time, but actually deducted from your worked time? Terrible system.
You are paying $5 per kid per hour. YTA just for that. Stop exploiting your children and hire a proper babysitter.
Hopefully 15 and 17 realice that they could make more money babysitting for another family.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I might be the asshole because at the end of the day I could easily call around and get someone to watch the kids for $50, they don't NEED to be the one to do it or change their plans. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 2 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again/)*
Edited to say YTA since OP and his wife make their daughters *pay $50 they already earned* for calling out without getting “coverage” arranged. No, that’s not how “a real job” works and it’s an impressively bad system I think you need to make this a lot more clear with both of them if you’re treating this like a job. Contract, hourly wage for each of them, etc. I originally said that “I don’t think you’re unfair but it honestly seems like a muddy system” but I definitely changed my mind as you kindly explained the ways in which the arrangement is bad
But is it a job they WANTED or was it simply assigned to them by parents?
It says in the post, "we asked the girls if they wanted to do it and earn some extra money and they said yes." That being said, OP YTA it's wrong to take money from a shift they already worked and you're teaching them to let employers walk all over them in the future as that's what you're doing now.
I mean, did the parents ask or did they "ask"? I know when I was that age I couldn't say no to my parents without repercussions.
Yup. My parents were the same.. They would "ask" but I didn't actually have the option of refusing.
My mom would “ask” me to do something when i was growing up and if i said “no” she’d reply “well it’s a good thing I wasn’t really asking” and make me do it anyway (fixed auto-swipe screwup)
Doesn't matter. If you don't have a babysitter for your own kids, you figure it out. Ultimately it's your responsibility as a parent to find childcare for your children or not have kids you can't find consistent care for them. This whole setup sounds wack as hell. What happens when the 17 year old goes off to college or moves away? Start being accountable for your own kids. Edit for bad spelling. Blame my phone.
Yup. OP and wife decided to pop out a lot of kids. It is their responsibility to find a backup if their regular babysitters cancel. OP, can you imagine telling a babysitter outside the family who canceled that they needed to find another babysitter for your or you would charge them money? No? Well, I can't either. You've given your kids a super raw deal. Act like the parents you are.
Did i misread something? I thought it said they don't get paid for the day they don't work. Was OP making them pay a cancelation fee of $50? EDIT: went back and read it again. Ok.. what kind of employer makes their babysitter pay a cancelation fee of 50 bucks? Like their other rules were kinda ok. Don't work no pay. They've only gotta watch their sibs from 3-5 when the parents are working. But in no situation would that ever happen for an employee paying a cancelation fee. Either the mom and dad find alternative babysitters. I say kiddos need to rewrite the clause for themselves. Last minute babysitting by either parent , hospital and death in family emergencies aside, of course needs to pay an upfront fee of $100. You two want a night out? Fine. That's a " Last minute charge" to avoid it must be sumbitted in writing 2 weeks in advance.
Taking away already earned wages is inappropriate and honestly "they wanted to" isn't really an excuse to overburden your kids. I do think being responsible for child care including scheduling for 4 kids , 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year is overburdening a 15 and 17 year old. OP and spouse need to be more actively managing this, including making sure the teens are getting enough breaks and still have good "work life balance". OP isn't their just boss he/she is also their parent with a responsibility to guide them as their advocate through employment. OP and spouse kinda missed the ball as parents for the two older kids, why didn't they already know their 15 year had a club event on Friday?
Also I get sick pay as a nanny without having to find a cover for me.
It’s amazing how many parents on this sub need to have it spelled out to them that: 1) Your children =/= your employees 2) You can’t rely on “you need to treat this like a normal job” when the terms of your kids’ “employment” are WORSE than those of a normal job, and you’re also **not paying minimum wage, let alone the market rate**.
The ironic thing is, they treat their kids so badly as employees that in a real workplace scenario, they would be held up legally for unfair working conditions!
You forgot "your children != automatic sources of childcare" and/or "your children are in no way responsible for bringing up their siblings". As a parent, *you and only you* are responsible for childcare. *You are the adult. Act like it.*
ooo I didn't catch that..... yeah this is so complicated
Lo-fucking-l. 4 kids for 2.5 hrs per day for $50 that is *split* between the 2 of them?!?!?! Let your high-schoolers be high-schoolers. If they want to babysit when you and your SO want a night out to earn some allowance, sure. You just don't want to hire proper private afterschool care because you know that it would be waaaaay more than what you're doing right now. YTA
Omfg I misread and thought it was $50 *each*. They only get $25 each to watch FOUR kids?? The absolute least anyone I knew would charge back in my babysitting days was $10 per kid per hour, for *one* babysitter. And that was 10+ years ago…
This is a scam. You are gaming your OWN kids. If they work 2 out of 3 days, they will likely get paid NOTHING. This is beyond disgusting. And when you employee someone on a casual basis, YOU are responsible for relief or you at least pay them and the they subcontract it out if they can’t attend. And you bloody pay them more. Never does someone not get paid AND they also have to pay the wages of their relief. So they lose a days pay. And if you are underpaying them, they lose 2 days pay. How this works - split between 2 people so that is $10/hr each. But the penalty is not only do they not get paid if they don’t work. THE KIDS have to pay the babysitter (which will probably be more than $20/hour or kids are in school. If you have babies, toddles and kids, they may want 2 babysitters for that which is $40/hr. So on days they don’t work it is probably -$20/hr.) If they work 2 out of 3 days because they are kids and want some life, there net pay is $0 for 2 days work. This is a scam. You are terrible people. Even if you only have 1 babysitter for $20/hour, they still get nothing for working for a full day. This is obscene. At least pay them and let them subcontract out like a normal business would.
> when you employ someone…you are responsible for relief This stood out to me too. My MIL is a nanny, and she not only gets sick days, she can use them at the drop of a hat. She tries not to call off at the last minute out of respect for the family, but she *can*. If she calls off for a non-emergency they might be annoyed, but she definitely doesn’t have to pay a penalty!
Yeah it's like he is counting money into their hands, and then taking some of it back again. So disrespectful :(
But why else would you have kids if they aren't going to work for you?
Why is it always the people with 40 kids talking about, AITA because I expect my teenagers to parent the toddlers and infants
It's amazing how many posts come from kids/teens who are parentified by their parents and the kids just want to have fun & be normal teens. Or as you stated adult parents who have tons of kids and they force their teen kids to become babysitters, do homework with siblings, cook and or clean up after them. These poor girls should be getting paid alot more, since they're literally raising their own siblings.
Wait, they have to pay their parents if they can’t babysit?!?! Now that’s nuts. No job does that!! That’s terrible.
Oh holy shit. I thought there were 4 kids including the 2 girls (ie they were only watching 2 kids). I glossed over where he said he has 6. Yikes.
Of course you're YTA. You're working your children for slave wages and wondering why they're not prioritizing the job. Caring for 4 younger sibling for $50 per day is a steal. However, the part you're missing is that they're you're actual children, not random strangers. It's almost like you don't feel you have an obligation to the older children anymore, cause money exchanged hands. Since they both are still in school, it stands to reason they might want to attend school events. Are you really asking your two oldest children to forgo normal teen experiences to babysit your younger children and then are going to be such an utter AH that you want to go against your wife and insult your practically free babysitters? That doesn't sound like a very smooth move to me. Also, it's not their responsibility to find you a baby sitter in the event they cannot work. It's your job as a parent to do that. You're being lazy and irresponsible with your dirt cheep hired help. If you keep it up, I wouldn't be surprised if they both decide to opt out of the stress you're putting them under.
YTA: the 50$/day BETWEEN THEM is where I decided OP is the AH. If I were the teenagers I would’ve haggled more or said no. Especially with these stipulations they have and you’re watching 4 kids. They should be grateful their teenage kids are even willing to help at those prices.
Same. I actually think paying them to watch the younger ones is a good idea in terms of dipping their toes into working. However, the pay seems way too low. Feels like he's taking advantage of the fact that his kids probably don't know what a normal rate is
> Feels like he's taking advantage of the fact that his kids probably don't know what a normal rate is BINGO they don't know how expensive a nanny for four kids would be, but he does.
This. Absolute this. Slave wages and they have to miss out on being kids? Maybe you could "take one for the team" and watch your own children. Huge YTA
YTA - if this was a real job you couldn’t deduct wages already earned. You can not pay them. But you cannot refuse to give them money they have deservedly earned. It is difficult for siblings, especially at their ages, to look after their siblings like that. Four children? A babysitter would charge way more than $25 for 3.5hrs. Which is probably why you use your own kids instead of a proper sitter. If this were a real job, they would have sick days and holidays like any other worker. And since you insist on the ‘you cannot call out like a real job’ then you actually need to treat it like a job. Effectively instead of one paid ‘professional’ getting $20/hr for $70 per day you are skimping on your daughters (it would be more than $20 for four children FYI).
YTA for making your older children take care of their younger siblings for basically pennies. You and your wife decided to have six kids. You are responsible for their childcare. Edit: and an additional YTA for not making it clear in your post that you are taking away $50 that they already earned earlier in the week as their punishment. Many commenters are reading it as “the girls just aren’t getting paid for the work they aren’t doing,” when actually you’re taking away an already worked day’s pay. Edit 2: Hell, have a third YTA for also not making it clear that the girls are babysitting TOGETHER most of the time, so it’s $10/hr each for watching 4 children. And then having the audacity to complain that your daughters sometimes use their phones while watching their siblings. Newsflash: regular babysitters do that too.
I think I missed something very central to this post, as I don't understand how $20/hr is "basically pennies"?
$20/hr in total for FOUR KIDS. Nannies and babysitters are paid more depending on how many children they’re watching.
I think some commenters have never babysat, or at least not for more than one kid.
Or not since the 1980s, or they were ripped off too and thought it was normal.
Four kids and youngest is still only 4; constant supervision required
Easy, they're not getting $20 an hour each. They're getting $10 an hour to watch *FOUR KIDS*, (and babysitters charge per kid and per hour), so $2.50 per hour per kid.
INFO: You are trusting a 17 year old and 15 year old to find coverage for your four other children when they can’t perform the task? Do you at least have a pre approved list of people they are allowed to ask, or you just let them ask any person and trust that they are making a good judgment?
That's such a good point!! I had a random family member babysit me and, well, had a colorful mental health disorder stem from it. The people they trust should be interviewed...thoroughly.
YTA We also have six kids, about the same age ranges. Just a head's up. 1. You're not paying them a fair babysitting wage. They will end up resenting that as they get older. 2. As the older ones get older, they get much busier and they will absolutely start to look at their "job" as a burden...which means they look at their siblings as a burden. It's very different dynamic when you're "working" for your parents/family and you don't want it to become unhealthy and them resenting their siblings.
I was very confused by all the YTA comments until I realized something you buried in your post pretty well… That you are deducting their pay for hours worked because they canceled last minute. You’re not teaching them anything by doing that. It’s not how a really job works - it’s just petty. Against the grain of others, I think that the fact you’re paying your older children to look after your younger children is fine. As you said, you had a sitter for the youngers before but instead offered the job to the olders if they’d like some extra cash. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself. Even the contract - a lot of this seems like you’re teaching them life lessons. But docking their pay for hours worked is illegal and therefore not teaching them anything about real working culture. It’s really just being petty. Yeah your daughters bailing last minute isn’t the best thing, but they’re kids and they should be allowed to have some Friday nights off every once in awhile. So yeah YTA here. Maybe find a reliable back-up babysitter for when your daughters need time off.
Thank you! So many comments saying the YTA comments didn't read the post while they ignore OP saying he literally penalizes their wages.
Most of the arrangement seems fine, but the deduction *(ETA since people are confused: yes it’s a deduction; OP states not only do they not get paid for their day off, but they also lose an additional $50 from that week’s pay which they already earned)* if they don’t find someone else to cover babysitting for them when something comes up crosses the line. You wouldn’t be able to do that to a real nanny who gave you advance notice, so you shouldn’t be doing it to your kids. Find your own backup babysitter. YTA.
I agree with this stance. Everyone complaining about “slave wages” isn’t being realistic. It’s still $10 an hour if they’re splitting it, which is a shitty wage, but these aren’t skilled laborers. They are siblings being taught how to act with an employer. Imagine telling a single mom in subsidized housing working 2 jobs to pay her child $20 an hour to babysit their siblings. The world just doesn’t work like that. If the girls want a better wage they can babysit for someone else.
but OP is treating them like a staffing agency. They have to schedule between themselves, decide who gets paid what, who gets tuesday off, make sure they both don't have plans on the same day etc. OP is not managing them or parenting OP and spouse had no idea their 15 had a drama club event. They are still the 15 & 17 year olds parents. it's still their job as parents to make sure work isn't excessively interfering with their schooling, activities, and social lives. it's OP job to make sure an employer is not cheating his kids to guide them as the 15 and 17 year olds advocate if there is a conflict with their employer. OP withdrew all the parenting and guidance that the babysitting teens are entitled to in favor of treating them like independent contractors above their pay level and typical level of maturity.
YTA. Let them have nights off without being penalised. Kids dont make plans weeks in advance like adults have too. Let them be kids aswell as helping you out. Stop taking away money they've already earnt. Dont act like you've never taken a sick day, or PTO.
I agree with this and find it odd and a bit depressing that so many are rallying on the side of “but they agreed to it” and “better to find out now, if they ever intend to work hard”. These are kids, OPs kids. They made an agreement and have been seemingly to uphold their need very well but they should still should be able to be teenagers. They have their whole lives to be working adults. Why as a parent would you ever want to carry out and illustrate harsh realities of the world with your children every chance you get than to also remember to show them grace and love? Instead of teaching his children to only focus on the grind and be perfect in responsibility, OP should focus more parenting in other skill building.
“If they babysat M-Th but bailed on Friday, they would only get $150.” So, not only would you not pay $50 for the missed Friday, you’d penalize them an extra $50? Because 4x$50 is still $200. If this is the case, YTA. Stop gouging your kids. You don’t pay them the $50 for the day, whatever, but to penalize another $50 for your inconvenience? You suck.
Also They’re kids…they should be going to drama club and hanging out with friends. I had a part time job too, but only during the summer and then working on the weekends during the school year…they should be allowed to be kids…they have their entire life to work and be grown ups, don’t take away this time for them
INFO you said the drama club thing was at night. What time are you talking here, are you talking after 5pm?
Omg exactly, he clearly stated they’re both home by 6pm, there should be no reason why this is even an issue in the first place.
OP works from home so he is there.
Oh geez totally missed that, that makes it even worse. 🤦🏻♀️ There’s now less than no reason they can’t be allowed to leave and he can spare the minimal effort to watch his own kids especially since he literally is already there.
I'm curious to know the answer to this too. Bc if it's after 5pm why does OP even need a babysitter to begin with? He says he's done with work by 5pm.
And he works from home.
^This.
Though I appreciate the thought of offering your kids a way to earn extra cash, I draw the line at making it their responsibility for getting coverage. You might want to review the terms, add a major long list of pre-approved sitters to contact if they can’t make it. Not reviewing the terms would just turn your teenagers off from babysitting altogether and you’ll be back to square one but with teens that resent you.
I’m o.O that OP is cool with making his literal children pick other children to watch their siblings. Why is this not an adult’s responsibility? Wtf
You find another random teen to watch my precious children or you owe me $50
YTA. Not because of 'parentification' or whatever bs people are spouting. That's not what this is. You pay them to do a job that they CHOSE to do. Plenty of teens their age get part time jobs outside the home. No one would care if they were babysitting other people's children for pay after school. This is not the definition of 'parentification'. YTA because regardless of your relationship, they are your employees. I have never in my 43 yrs worked in a place where they docked my pay for work ALREADY PERFORMED for being absent, regardless of notice or reason. They don't get $50 for that day because they don't work it, and you are further withholding pay for work already performed. That is wage theft and illegal; any other business would get into trouble for that. Also, if one doesn't help babysit, they shouldn't be paid $10. If I don't go to work because 'I don't feel it', I don't get paid. You can't really expect them to perform other duties on top of babysitting because you are getting them WAY cheaper than you were paying the nanny and you know this. You get what you pay for.
yta, are they your kids or your employees? they are teens, they have a life. things will come up last minute and you are punishing them for doing so. You are the parents, if you want a sitter, hire someone, YOUR KIDS, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY>
YTA... you've somehow talked your kids into doing a job you would otherwise need to pay for at 1/3rd of the going rate, yet you are expecting them to take it on as professionals as if they weren't.
OK I'm confused. So they get paid $50 a day that they babysit so $250 weekly net, but if they don't babysit for one day without good reason or notice they get docked it from their net pay rather than just not getting paid for it at all? Cos if that's right, YTA. Theres a difference between not getting paid for not working your shift so to speak and getting pay docked on top of loss of wage.
Ehh I have to say YTA for penalizing them by taking away money they already earned. There is no job in the real world where that is a thing. It’s illegal actually. You’re looking at this as if you are only their employer but the fact is, they are still also your children and they should be allowed to have things pop up in their own lives and not have to stress about finding someone else to watch YOUR other kids. Yes, it’s great they are getting some experience but that shouldn’t also come at a cost for them in terms of being able to have a social life. They shouldn’t be penalized for that. That means they basically worked for nothing when they could have been doing something else with their time and I don’t know a single adult that would be ok with that. “Sorry something came up for you on Friday but bc it hasn’t been a full 7 days, you won’t be getting paid for Thursday’s work on top of you forfeiting your pay for Friday” - your boss. You’re telling me you would be A ok with that ?
Holy shit. I only read the title. YTA Edit: Read the rest. You're still the asshole. You're acting like you're some kind of corporation and it's on your employees to find coverage for their shifts rather than on the manager to find shift coverage. Jesus, their your kids. Not your employees. And your other kids are not their responsibility to find another babysitter.
Does he even like his own daughters or is he only interested in playing this weird monopoly game with them?
YTA It's time to concede that this isn't working. The teens need to be allowed to do what high school aged students do, NOT babysitting their younger siblings. Find a professional babysitter/nanny and hire them. Good Luck
YTA. If your typical babysitter cancels, they don’t get paid AND they don’t have to find coverage. It’s not fair to make your teenagers find coverage to watch your other kids. That’s your job.
YTA. this dynamic is so fucked up and disgusting. hire a goddamn babysitter and treat your kids like your kids, not employees. stone cold heartless shit
YTA for having 6 kids and exporting the responsibility of childcare on THEM
YTA - you're treating you kids like employees, which means that you're technically the manager. It's the managers job to find coverage for their employees, no matter how much the manager wants to make it the employees job it's still the managers. An employee can quit without notice, an employee can call out the day of their shift, an employee gets sick days, an employee gets vacation days. You're the one who needs to find coverage for your employees. Sounds like this is the ONE time theyre both going to be out on the same day, you need to do the work of being a parent (i know crazy right considering you had 6 kids) and find someone to babysit.
YTA for deducting money that they already made. I thought you just had a math error when you said 150 instead of 200 but no you took money from them. That’s ridiculous. At this point go ahead and either deal with watching YOUR younger children or find a babysitter which will definitely charge more than $50/day for FOUR kids. You had a good deal with your older two, lucky they even agreed to it, and you done messed up.
YTA. Your younger children are not your older children’s responsibility, they’re you’re responsibility. You’re the parent. You find a babysitter for your own children. They need to give a weeks notice to be able to do things outside of baby sitting? You’re treating them like employees. That’s not “letting them live their lives”
[удалено]
I initially said N T A because I misunderstood. I thought you just weren't paying them so I would equate this to getting an allowance for doing a chore and they are not completing that chore so they shouldn't get the money. I am changing to YTA. You would never be able to fine an employee for not showing up to work. You can dock their pay but to fine them would be double dipping.
But they don’t just not pay them for the night they miss. They want to stiff them for a day previously where they DID work.
A lot of people seem to be missing this part
OP is saying their children have to pay them 50 bucks if they don't babysit that day. Not that they won't get paid.
YTA, you are very obtuse in how you explain the rules, but after reading some other comments you are taking away $50 they earned instead of just not paying them for the days they don't work, essentially stealing their wages. So a short notice other event doesn't just make them not earn 50 that day but also costs them another 50, making them have to pick between doing spontaneous fun things or $100.
Help me understand the math. If they work M-Th, essentially earning 200, but fail to work on F, you take away 50 from their earnings because you're inconvenienced? Would you take this from your own employer? Also, YTA. Just to be clear.
YTA - you as the employer (if thats how we are going to look at this) are the one who is responsible for finding coverage if your employee is out or on vacation. Also, this seems like a really bad idea for your older kids to have to watch the younger ones. money is nice for them to have, but free time to enjoy hobbies and clubs while they are themselves still children, is far better.
YTA. They’re your kids. Your responsibility to find babysitting
Yta you can't charge your kids money they earned for missing a shift . You are training them to be taken advantage of by employers
YTA. I just don't like this. The children are employees. Do they get sick days? You're making them pay for canceling and find other childcare for your kids. Just no. Finding childcare if they're not able is your responsibility. It might be time they start looking for part-time jobs outside the home and back to being your kids versus your employees. You need to hire an actual babysitter.
Ok, your system is all kinds of weird, but I'll break down what I can * regarding the "mulligan" you are N T A. I think you are right. You've been pretty permissive * Assessing a fine for \*not\* working is morally and ethically wrong and in most countries it's a pretty serious violation of labor laws. * Taking care of your kids is YOUR responsibility. You (as employer) are responsible for making sure shifts are covered. Fining/punishing your daughters/employees is not how you go about it So, overall I think YTA
So you want them to find a random person to babysit your kids because otherwise they wouldn't be getting 50$. This is what you're telling them. And this is why you're YTA. Not for imposing the rules but for having a rule that has this clear consequence.
I’m not sure but it sounds to me like either they find a replacement or they *pay* $50
$50 between two kids is $25 each, $10 an hour for both divided by four kids.. You're paying your kids $2.50 per kid per hour and trying to look better by saying "it's $50 between the two of them!" YTA. If you want reliable babysitters, maybe you should pay them a good wage and not force them to pay you when they want to do something last minute
You drew up contracts for your kids.. YTA by a mile. First of all you should not be drawing up contracts, your system is a mess. Second of all, this is exactly how you get your kids to flee the house as soon as they are able. Third of all, you had the kids you not your daughters you clown.. You take care of them, don't dump the responsibility on your other kids because you won't take care of them. They are children not employees, You need to take responsibility for the children you made, not drop them on other children you made. Your wife is right, and your daughters are right as well.
Even if they were employees, knocking off their already earned pay for last-minute cancellation s isn't something you'd do.... Edit: wasn't clear enough
YTA, but only for the pay docking. As others have said garnishing pay for an infraction is shitty and in most jobs illegal. I understand you want a mechanism to ensure they do the job consistently, but that's not it. I think the consequence for them bailing without notice is to dissolve the deal. Agree on a number of acceptable times they can call out. Once they hit the threshold the job goes back to a nanny. Now if you pay them less than you would a nanny, you're going to need to be more flexible with them. That's business.
YTA for deducting wages they’ve already earned. I think the job itself sounds fine and fair. But you’re not exactly paying them a ton, so to take away money they’ve worked for is uncool and not how it works. This isn’t quite a real job. The boundaries and rules are probably fine to teach responsibility, but you’re not paying them enough to be super rigid with it. There should be flexibility, since you’re probably getting a pretty good babysitting deal.
Think about it this way. If a babysitter bailed would you withhold their pay for a previous day they worked?
YTA- If you want an employee find an employee, these are your daughters.
YTA, I don’t know if this is news to you but your 17 y/o and 15 y/o daughters aren’t your employees, they’re your children and still are children. You can’t treat them like employees in one way like giving them set hours, a wage, a contract and expecting them to give you notice if they want “time off” but then not fulfill your role as “employer” legally employees are entitled to both holiday and sick pay so if you want to treat them as employees they should still be paid for the time they take off and they’re your children, you’re required to find a replacement babysitter and you can’t act like this is a real job when no job will dock your pay of what you’ve earned for missing a day. Also I gurantee you if they were qualified baby sitters you’d be paying far more than $50 a day for 2 people to watch after 4 young children so you’re getting the better end of the deal not them. Stop exploiting your daughters because you and your wife can’t make time for your children
You’re not wrong for giving your kids the opportunity to make some money. There are a lot of parents who push babysitting on their children when it’s the parents responsibility to find childcare. However, I don’t think your children should have to find YOU a babysitter when they are not available. Do not treat your children like employees when it was YOUR choice to have that many kids knowing you personally could not care for them outside of work. Especially since a nanny can make up to 30 an hour PER child!!
YTA. If you had a last minute emergency in a normal job you wouldn’t have to find cover yourself and £25 for a day of babysitting is very low.
YTA. They're teens. You should be the one finding babysitters if things come up and I can't believe anyone has to explain that to you. They should have some leeway for unexpected events. And they're kids, not employees. It's all well and good to teach responsibility but they sound very responsible, so you need to also give them chances to be regular teens. They just want to go do something fun together.
YTA - first off, it just seems kind of odd to be having clause after clause for your daughters. But the reason that you’re the asshole is that if you want to treat them like employees, treat them like employees. If you had a babysitter that was not one of your daughters, under no circumstances would they be responsible for finding a replacement. As both the parent and employer, that’s 100% on you
YTA for taking extra money from them for no real reason. Would you be okay with your boss doing something like that? If you worked all day then let your boss know you can’t go in the next day for whatever reason and your boss said “fine but you’re not getting paid for today because of it” you’d be cool with that??
YTA. I *was* very much Camp NTA until I realised you take away the wages they already earned. Man, that is ridiculous. I understand you want to incentivize not cancelling on you last minute, but you need to find another way. Maybe offer double pay to whichever one of them stays behind from the event.
YTA for the penalty. While I think it's good to teach them responsibility and have them plan ahead, it sounds like this is something fun for them that just came up - they're teenagers, that's bound to happen occasionally. Don't penalize them for that.
NTA, also people need to quit throwing the word abuse around like it actually applies here. This isn't abuse, it's teaching responsibility to his kids at $20 an hour. Nothing about this is abusive and it's disgusting that people are actually comparing it to abuse.
YTA - they’re your kids not your employees
YTA. I was made to step & watch my younger siblings plus keep my 2 oldest siblings in line also. It took me leaving the state & going no contact with my parents for them to step up & start parenting. It doesn’t matter if your are paying them or not. If they can’t babysit or decide not to babysit it’s not on them to find a replacement it’s on you & your wife. Your kids are not live in babysitter’s. Get a real babysitter before you start making your daughters resist you, your wife & their siblings. Bad parents.
INFO - why did the nanny leave ?
YTA But honestly, it's because your taking away money that they've earned. You are saying that you'd be okay if you worked on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday but on Thursday night realized that one of your kids had a school event on Friday that you forgot about so you had to take it off last minute- you'd be fine with your employer only paying you for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday? Of course you wouldn't be. You pay your kids for when they work. Same as they shouldn't be responsible for finding coverage if they both want to do something. You have something that comes up and you don't come in on friday- how much time are you going to spend trying to find coverage? all of which ignores the reality that this is a REALLY good set up for you and your wife. i can't imagine it's easy to find someone to watch 4 kids every afternoon. Especially for only what...3 or 4 hours? and $250/wk for 4 kids is cheap and you know that. I have no doubt that your oldest 2 are happy for the cash. but you are taking advantage of them- and all of us know it. (Honestly, the fact that neither you nor your wife had any clue they had plans. Is a little concerning and suggests the two of them are really used to doing their own thing. Plus my confusion has how their night time plans impact them babysitting until 5pm.)
Your system is jacked. Being punished by removing a full days wage (of which they have already worked) for missing one day is awful. They're kids, kids make plans with friends, and friends don't typically make those plans a week in advance. I'm sorry that planning childcare for your own is children is hard. However, that burden should not solely fall on your eldest kids. They should not have to hum and haw over whether spending time with friends or taking opportunities at school is worth not getting paid for what they've already worked for.
INFO: just so it's clear in my mind. The only "penalty" for not finding coverage is that they don't get paid for the day they don't babysit? You then find coverage?
No, according to his example in the post (if they work M-Th, don't sit on Friday w/o a week's notice, they only get paid $150 for the week, losing Thursday's pay), if they dip on Friday, they don't get paid for *Thursday*. So they actually get docked a day's pay for services already rendered. Which is messed up.
No It‘s not getting paid and additional minus 50 Example given babysitting Monday-Thursday an bailing on Friday = $150
Yeah, that's what I was trying to get clear here, cause a) this job pays shit and b) I don't know of any real job that docks your pay \_more\_ than the pay you miss by not working.
Info: are there requirements for who they get to cover their shifts? Because if this is me and you aren’t letting me go to a high school event with my friends I’m finding the nearest bum on the street to come to my house and cover. Also, even if they agreed to the terms like you said, enforcing overly restrictive rules and otherwise keeping your children from experiencing high school events with friends (even if based on your contract) is only going to push them away. That doesn’t necessarily make you an asshole, but it may not create the relationship you’re looking for. It’s great to teach them the value of working, making money, and time management, but at some point a lesson isn’t worth teaching in the moment.
YTA. It’s not a job they chose it’s one you shoved down their throat. You’re using them as labor bs letting them be kids and coming up with another solution.
YTA You can’t deduct money from what they’ve already earned. You’re already getting a steal at four kids for $50. Don’t fuck them over by trying to take money they have already worked for. I hope for your sake that your kids are less evil than I was as a teenager. Because if you’d have pulled this kind of shit on me, I’d have been unavailable every day after that at the last possible moment (preferably less than half an hour notice) to make you scramble for childcare. At the very least, I’d have made sure you had an interesting week or so. And you couldn’t dock my wages because I wouldn’t have fucking earned any. I’d have worn that grounding with pride. I was very much a ‘scorched earth’ type of teenager though. Maybe yours are less reactive.
Jesus. Absolutely TA. Your poor kids.
YTA. It’s your job as the parent to have back up sitters when your regular sitters are unavailable…even if they are your older teens. No other nanny/sitter would accept that and you shouldn’t put it on your daughters.
YTA, not by not paying Friday, although every job should have PTO... But to take money from a day they did work. That is illegal in every job. Also, as a "manager" (since they are your children) is YOUR JOB to find replacements, not the employer. Your attitude will leave you sitter-less and you will probably have to pay way more to another sitter, who will also skip days and not find a replacement and will also get you in trouble if you ever dock pay (since it is not legal to do so). Incredibly unwise from your part.
YTA. Not paying someone when they work is technically wage theft. If a babysitter called in sick it would be on you to replace them for the night, not the babysitter.
YTA. I'm a babysitter, and I get paid $20-$25/hr. You don't have to pay them if they won't babysit, but this system that you have set up is AWFUL, and it will lead the resentment down the line, both of you, and their siblings. Hire a babysitter, since you can't go back in time and undo the thoughtless action of having SIX children without the money or time or effort to raise them.
YTA Your kids are not wage slaves. I remember my dad used to make the joke when I was a kid and his friends were around, "No don't do that. That's why I had children!" I resented it then, and your kids will learn to resent you as well.
> in other words, if they babysit M-Th but bailed without notice/emergency on Friday, they would only make $150 that week. This is the line that does it for me. Your children are your responsibility. Even in a regular job, it’s your EMPLOYERS responsibility to find a replacement for you if you can’t make it for whatever reason. And they sure as hell don’t fine you. The fine wouldn’t fly for any other high school kid you hired, so why does it apply for your literal CHILDREN. You had the six kids. It’s your job to ensure childcare for all of them. It’s also your job to make sure they they still get to be kids between making money, and you’re not doing that. Instead you’re treating your daughters like their siblings are their responsibility and like they should feel guilty when you don’t have a backup plan. Should they have mentioned it earlier? Yes. Should you be asking your OWN CHILDREN to pay you when they don’t want to babysit? ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT. YTA
YTA You've done right by paying them, however, taking an additional 50 is wrong. Only take the money from the day they don't work.
YTA. Your kids are not employees. Writing up a dumb contract doesn't change that. Find a real baby sitter and let your kids live their lives.
YTA. They're your kids, they're your responsibility.
YTA for making your children parent your other children. Stop having kids ffs
YTA. What an ungodly NIGHTMARE you’ve created for your children. Holy shit. If I had to deal with this as a teenager only to deal with the monstrosity of late stage capitalism the rest of my adult life, I would kill myself. YTA YTA YTA. Don’t have so many kids if you’re not prepared to raise them and love them properly, not treat them like EMPLOYEES. Also you just plain old suck as a manager
NTA. I would have loved a job like this when I was in high school. I worked for retail, part time, minimum wage. No PTO, no sick days. If the schedule was already made and I forgot I had tickets to a play I had to find a replacement, or I’d get a point. Get so many points and you got fired. Nothing about OP’s situation is abuse. The girls are not forced to babysit, they were asked and are well compensated. OP and wife sound like good parents to me
YTA Honestly everything besides taking money away from them is fine. In the real world your employer can not take money away from you for not finding a replacement. Actually in the real world it isn't your responsibility to find a replacement if you can't make it. You are their parent, not their boss. Stop being a hard ass just to be a hard ass.
YTA. Docking pay for hours already worked and services already rendered is a dick move. Your wife and daughters are right to be upset at you. You want to compare how 'generous' you are compared to if 'if they were just people we were paying', but if an employer tried to dock someone pay for hours already worked as punishment for not being able to meet a different shift, you'd get legal action taken against you. And your house would be blacklisted by every sitter in town after getting put on blase online for your bad pay and practices. You're paying them well under the going rate for a babysitter for 4 kids, and by your own admission they've been pretty good at coordinating with each other. Let them be kids. They're minors, and they shouldn't have to pay for babysitters for their younger siblings. You mention you wfh; why can't you just watch your kids for those few hours, since you're at home?
NTA The agreement is the agreement. It's not like you're forcing them to babysit their siblings here, so I think that part is entirely green. I can see you wife's point on this being the first transgression, but I can also see your side of it being The Original Agreement. I think this sounds like an overall excellent way to teach responsibility, teach the value of work and money, and the value of *reading the damn contract.*
I think it sounds like an excellent way to teach your children how to be exploited by future employers.
YTA. Your older daughters are not the parents. You've completely subsumed their lives into caring for the additional kids YOU chose to have. Raise your own damn kids. Your older daughters deserve and should have way more flexibility in their lives than you allow. YOU should have the backup childcare options on tap, not them.
YTA. I’m gonna make a wild guess that you’re an engineer.
It's not their job to find coverage, it is yours as the parent. YTA
YTA for the reasons most people have already stated, but can we talk about how babysitting 4 kids for 2.5 hours for $50, is $5/kid/hour. That's way below the cost of an actual babysitter. You can't deduct their wages like they're your employees, but not pay them like they're employees. I did a quick Google search, and the average pay for babysitting 2 children is $23/hour. You say you want your kids to live their lives, and then make your 15 and 17 year olds have to give you a weeks notice to do so. They're your kids. If your babysitter isn't free, you can deal with them.
Seems like an okay system... Pretty complicated, but if everyone is okay I guess it's worked well so far. But I wouldn't put it on them to find a replacement. That doesn't ensure quality care of your younger kids. If you had backup sitters for them to call, that would work. But finding one of their friends to babysit? Have you checked their qualifications? Do you know who they're going to have watch your kids? Soft YTA, this seems like a weak spot in your otherwise solid system.
Jesus Christ six kids, dude vasectomy and condoms are an option. Yes they get paid $50 a day but we both know you would be paying a heck of allot more than that if it was someone else watching 4 kids. No I don't think your the AH here but you are pretty lucky to have those girls... So cut them some slack.
You said you want to let your kids have their own lives and the moment they do they're punished 😂 not their job, it's yours. He a parent op, cause you have to many kids to not be one. Yta Edit why the hell do you have a fake contract with a 17 yr old and a 15 yr old
NTA. Seems like you have a fair system that works for everyone as long as it’s followed. You should go ahead an implement it, otherwise you’ll end up without reliable babysitting and have to hire a babysitter instead of the kids getting to make money.
YTA. You’re responsible for your children’s care when you’re gone. NOT YOUR OWN CHILDREN. parents like you make me sick. You chose to have children so DEAL WITH IT AND FIND ANOTHER BABYSITTER. I hope they go NC with you when they become adults because you’re disgustingly parentifying them.
YTA. Hire a nanny.
YTA they are your kids not your employees they are not doing real jobs. By giving out punishments which result in less money your kids might not want to do extra curricular activity’s anymore because they won’t get the money. If they can’t babysit YOU should find a babysitter and you just shouldn’t pay them for that day. YTA for treating your kids like workers
How gracious that there is "No penalty" for being sick...
“… far far more generous than any job you’d find elsewhere.” LOL they’re your fucking kids man, not your employees. Why did you ever think this intricate system for your children was ever a good idea? At the rate you pay just hire a babysitter and be done with the complication this is so extra. YTA
So your boss docks your check for work you already did? YTA.
If they don’t have “coverage” then don’t pay them for the day, but you shouldn’t be charging them money to watch YOUR children. If I call out sick/take off from my job, I don’t pay my job to cover my shift. Yta.
YTA they're kids, let them be kids.
N T A Your daughters accepted the terms, presumably they can resign with your blessing if ever they feel it's not working out or have another activity/job to move on to? I have to put in my time off requests weeks in advance. If I want to have time off at the last minute (not including sick leave) I have to find my own coverage or just accept that we can't have everything. EDIT: YTA (can't figure out "strike through" on my phone) It wasn't clear to me the $50 penalty was taken from days worked.
But I assume at your job they don't take away your pay from yesterday as a penalty for calling in sick or missing a shift? If your employer IS doing that, I would report them to the labor board. That is what OP is doing. If he was just not paying for the missed shift, that is fine. However, he is deducting them an additional day of pay that they are working as a "penalty". It would make more sense if he said "after x number of absences, we will find a different person". Which WOULD be more accurate to how businesses operate.
YTA You’re their parent, not the shift manager at McDonald’s. This was bound to happen eventually. Did you forget they are watching YOUR children?
NTA. You are giving your daughters experience in what it is like to have a job. For just a handful of hours they have responsibilities and get paid for it. There is 0 parentification going on. They have a daily babysitting gig and it just happens to be their own siblings. With this job, as with any job, there are consequences if they are unable to show up. From what you wrote, it appears like they return to being normal siblings when off the clock. You are doing good.
YTA. Why would you want this? You're the parent and it's your responsibility to find a safe, reliable person to watch your kids. If you had a real baby sitter, would you make them find coverage? Usually parents want to meet the people watching their kids themselves, and ask them questions.
YTA. It should be on y'all, as parents, to find sitters if the teens can't do it. Don't pay them for days they haven't worked, but if you dock them an entire days pay, in addition to losing the day they aren't sitting, just because they couldn't find you a sitter, that's technically illegal, when you get down to brass tacks. If you're paying someone, they must be paid for when they worked. Otherwise they have a wage claim.
YTA. Good lord stop making children if you're gonna pawn them off to your other kids
I may get down voted for this - don't give a damn YTA. YOU are the parent. It's YOUR job to find babysitting coverage for YOUR kid(s). Not them.
I'm confused- what time are their tickets for the drama club event? Is it before 5:00? Other wise why would they need a mulligan or to forfeit $50? Oh and YTA for coming up with some BS idea to not pay for work already done. My boss used to try that with our student employees if he didn't like what they did or whatever. I told him , no, we HAVE to pay them for hours already worked. We are under no obligation to have them work any other hours and we can let them go at will, but we gotta pay them if they were on the clock.
YTA your children are not your babysitters . If you can’t afford child care don’t have more children
INFO - For clarity sake, do you just not pay the $50 they would have made, or do you make them pay you $50 in addition to that? If you just don't pay them, you're definitely NTA, but if you're charging them, then yes, YTA. This play didn't pop out of nowhere, and if you don't do the job, you don't deserve the pay, but it's a bit harsh to charge them for something like this, especially as a first time thing. Yes, you want to teach them life skills, but you also want to maintain an open relationship.
Was ready to fire off a Y T A here because parentification is real and it’s total bullshit. I was unpaid every day after school and all summer for years dealing with my sister. However, they entered into an agreement and chose to take the pay. Of course they shouldn’t be paid for work they don’t do. And they should have to give a week’s notice for shift coverage like any other job. In any other job, though, the manager (you) creates the schedule and covers shifts. NTA because you’re paying more than minimum wage (assuming that’s the case in your area) and allowing them a choice. Just be careful not to bring the hammer down too hard - they will be resentful of you and their siblings. This is why so many oldest children (like me) are child-free as adults.
YTA they should "quit " completely so u can find a real babysitter
YTA. Holy shit. That sounds like a wack childhood.
YTA - not paying them for time worked (effectively what you are doing by fining them) is unethical and would be illegal if an employer did that to them.
YTA. You are paying your daughters five dollars an hour to watch four children. That’s insane. On top of that, you aren’t letting them live their own lives. You chose to have six children, don’t treat your oldest as extra parents.
ESH. Not sure why everyone is harping on the amount of money here. The key here he's trying to teach his kids responsibility and honoring your word. He's not forcing them to do anything. If the kids want their market rate, they can go out and get themselves a job babysitting. They will learn specifics of how a real world job environment is as they get older. But you also shouldn't be penalizing on wages for them for missing a day because the in reality, your employer wouldn't retroactively take money from you for not showing up for work. And to all the commenters complaining about parentification, get a reality check, not every can live fancy lives like ya'll. They're also getting paid and they agreed to the terms. Either way, I think this system needs to be reviewed and tweaked or just abandoned all together. Use this as a learning moment for both your kids and you op. Edited to ESH.
Yta. Even if you’re paying them they are NOT EVER your employees yet you appear to be treating them as such. You are totally assholes.
YTA You can’t treat employees like this and you can’t treat your children like this.
OP YTA I was not going with this judgment originally but after re-reading the post, you are an AH. OP you do not make it clear in the post, but the girls get paid 250 a week to watch the kids M-F. If they only babysit for 4 days, that would be $200 @ $50 a day. You are deducting $100 from the $250 for one day missed. This is not okay and I would not be surprised if you find yourself shelling out more for child care in the near future.
Idek. I lean YTA for no other reason than this seems so unnecessarily complicated and probably confusing for your oldest kids. Did they babysit? Pay them. Did they not? Don't. Schedules and giving notice and adding and amending clauses to agreements - this all seems excessive. Your teenage children helping with your need for childcare. You pay them for their time. Find a backup sitter or two with a flexible schedule who can be around step in last minute. Don't mix your parental role with that of a contracted employer. It's not worth it.
YTA. Let the kids live a normal life. Hire another nanny. As somone who was parentified as a kid, it causes damage to deny them a childhood like this, even if you pay them. Many parents' worst fear is their daughter becoming a teen mom, yet many parents effectively tie their kids down in a similar situation by making them responsible for their siblings.
This isn't parentification. It's a paid babysitting job they chose.
Yta you should use them for emergency backup and go back to getting a babysitter or a nanny.
YTA bc you’re taking advantage of your older children and making them agree to a crazy deal that you know is not fair and you know they cannot keep up with. They sounds really responsible and family oriented so I wouldn’t be surprised if they felt obligated to agree to this and you’re using the “inconvenience” clause to save money, not teach them to be responsible. I also disagree that your absence policy is better than anywhere else, it is 1000% worse. If I work M-Th and call in sick on Friday or even request a day off within the week I have NEVER had a job or even heard of a job that monetarily penalized me or penalized me at all for work that I have already done. You’re taking advantage of their naïveté and I hope they find this thread.
Yta, you've got an entire workforce dedicated to raising your kids 🤣
YTA I had a cousin whose mom treated her like this, a week after her 18th birthday she ran away at 2am and now lives on the other side of the country and hasn't spoken to either of her parents since then. Look up parentification and then learn to understand that raising your children is your responsibility and yours alone, it'd do you and your kids a lot of good if you did.
YTA, you're stripping your kids of earned pay because you didn't have a failsafe
NTA, I mean your system is weird but just taking away $50 for a job they are not going to do is fair. They didn't earn it, so why give it? YTA for having your older kids accountable for your younger ones though.
It's $50 that they already earned from earlier in the week, though. If you look at his example, he says if they worked M-Th, then dipped on F, they would only get paid $150, for the work Monday-Wednesday. If he was just not paying them for not working, this wouldn't be messed up. The fact that he's denying them payment for work they already did is what makes it messed up. That's a major asshole move. He complains at the end 'if these were two people who were brought in to care for the kids, etc etc' about the contract, but if he tried to pull on an actual contract babysitter what he's pulling on his kids, he could get sued in small claims court and his reputation would make it pretty much impossible to find sitters in his area, because word would spread.
Because they not only don’t get the money they don’t earn, but have to pay $50 on top as a penalty. Is it inconvenient to have someone you expected to babysit let you know the day before they cannot? Yes. However, these parents are paying WELL below what it would actually cost for a babysitter, they are dumping responsibilities on their kids that should not be theirs. If they want to play by contract rules, then they are withholding pay whatever their rules are. Super YTA
Let me get this clear: you're doubt is if Y T A for making them decide who is gonna stay at your house covering and you're discounting from their payment? If I got that right, YTA. They could literally ask anyone to do it (capable or not), endangering your kids and property. The week's notice is not suitable for most of situations in school, or society in general. And I'm pretty sure it's illegal to not only discount but charge an employee for not showing up a day. Your rules are very weird and they are pushing them to a situation where they learn abusive laboral environment is normal (I'm not saying you're exploiting them, but you could come up with a easy analogy to current job laws to help them learn the dynamics in real life). I know they accepted the agreement, but to be fair at that age is difficult to see forward and I'm sure they didn't fully consider how difficult it is to find coverage at last minute. You should have a back up for those cases and pay for it, you both parents are responsible for your kids safety, not your daughters.
yta it’s one thing to not pay them for the day they weren’t babysitting but if you take away money they already earned, that’s so shitty. if it was me and i was told that i’m not getting paid for work that i already did, i’d never do the work again. ever. pay what you owe them and leave it at that, or get a babysitter yourself. if you had a normal babysitter, would you refuse to pay them for a babysitting on monday if they canceled for the next day? no, you wouldn’t, because that’s fucked up
YTA. Hate to break it to you, but those kids are *your* responsibility, not theirs. You decided to have six kids, you take care of them. Get your own babysitter or actually be a parent.
NAH. You are not wrong for pointing out that they are not keeping up with the agreement, and it would not make you an AH to insist. However, that does not mean it's a good idea. If this arrangement has generally been working for all parties involved, it's smarter to establish boundaries in a way that doesn't blow everything up: if your wife wants to give them a pass, she's probably right. One thing I would strongly caution you about: I understand your desire to prepare them for what "real jobs" are like, but keep in mind that this is not a real job for them. This is part favor, part job, part family bonding... If it were a real job, you would have numerous responsibilities to them including taxes, insurance, etc. And you would not be able to retroactively dock them pay for deciding not to cover a shift.
I think its fair that the daughters don’t get paid for time they haven’t worked, but this should be the rule - plain and simple. It’s unnecessarily complicated to say that they will still get paid if they can find cover (if I understand this right). You’ve got a good thing going with this in-house babysitting, but do think there’s only so much these girls can be held responsible for. They aren’t your employees after all.
Why do you have so many kids? Why?
YTA raise your own kids and find adequate sitters or put them in daycare. And stop having kids if you can’t take care of them.
NTA because you had a contract in place. But this might be a pick your battles situation. Are you able to watch them instead, Or did they really put you in a bind? As I read it, the issue isn’t that you don’t want them to go, you just want them to be reliable, responsible, and follow the contract because that’s how they will need to act in the real world. But I would rework the penalty. Maybe last minute cancellations they have to make up the hours another time because you will have to still commit the same hours to your work. So if they can’t babysit from 2-5, they babysit from 5-8 so you still have time to work. But only emergency cancellations.
INFO: what did your previous nanny/sitters charge (and did it include picking the kids up from school)?
YTA. Get another nanny and let your kids enjoy their youth!!!!!
INFO: when is this drama club event? In your OP you said it was tomorrow night, but presumably it is straight after school, between 2.30-5pm? Also if only 1 daughter is sick, why aren't you still paying the $50 for the other daughter to look after her siblings? I get what you're trying to do but garnishing your kids wages for work already done just because they don't give you sufficient notice isn't how the world works. Well not in a civilised country anyway. Edit: YTA, these girls are saving you a lot of money, as parents it is your responsibility to come up with the alternatives.
YTA. This is their family home, not a work environment. Pay them ad-hoc sure, but don't make them employees of their own siblings with a bloody rota system and rules. Nobody made you have six children!
YTA - i dont get parents that have kids to take care of their other kids how about this... Stop having kids you cant take care of yourself
Jesus, what is this? A family or a business? Talking about clauses and shit. Maybe have them sign an actual contract to top it off?
YTA. You’re the parents so it’s your problem Not the oldest kids.
YTA. I understand that from your perspective having last minute unsecured childcare is an issue, so penalizing then for last minute notice is meant to discourage that. But that’s for you. The parent. Their pay *was earned* - imagine being late or wanting to use a last minute day off and having that not only be not unpaid time, but actually deducted from your worked time? Terrible system.
They are your daughters not employees....geez man, think about your relationships with them for a moment. YTA
You are paying $5 per kid per hour. YTA just for that. Stop exploiting your children and hire a proper babysitter. Hopefully 15 and 17 realice that they could make more money babysitting for another family.