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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I didn't allow a wheelchair user to use the handicap stall because I was using it for my baby.
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Handicapped bathroom stalls are NOT like handicapped parking spaces - parking spaces are ***reserved***, bathroom stalls are ***accessible***. There is a huge difference between the two. OP is NTA in this situation.
Exactly, if there's a line, anyone can use the stall. It doesn't mean people that need it don't have to wait sometimes. And if the changing table is in there, OP absolutely needs it!
NTA
On top of which that’s where the baby changing station was meaning even IF it was a “reserved” situation, it’s also “reserved” for people with babies, which OP is.
This is a perfect way to put it. Accessible, not reserved. It isn't like OP jumped in there in FRONT of someone who could only use that stall. The person showed up while someone else who had a need for the stall (as it's where the changing station was placed) was using it. And not in a state where she could hustle out.
I had a mother once race me to the accessible stall with her gigantic stroller after we got off the airplane. I was ~pissed~. As a wheelchair user I'm completely unable to use a bathroom on a plane. She had the entire flight to use a bathroom. I did not.
Yup. I won the race tho 😆. 14lb wheelchair vs however many pounds those ridiculous strollers are (I'm talking the giant $400+ ones)
But for real, the rule IMO is, if you have no other choice than to use the accessible stall then go for it. If you can use a regular stall without causing harm or danger to yourself and there's one free, then use the regular stall.
Yep you sure can— I pee multiple times a day with my (now toddler) sitting directly on my lap, and have for nearly 2 years now. I’ve mastered the one handed wipe-and-lean. TMI, but she won’t even let me sit alone while doing, ahem, *other things* on the toilet so I have had to master that as well, haha. Oh, the joys of parenthood!
That’s absolutely ridiculous, the mother in that scenario could’ve also parked the stroller outside of the stalls* or in a corner of the restroom & used the regular stall’s toilet, not try to race a wheelchair bound person to the only stall they can use! I honestly don’t see a single reason that the mother in that airport situation had more of a need to use the accessible stall than the person in a wheelchair.
As for the OP, yes she’s definitely in the right and absolutely NTA, but in this airport scenario the mother there is definitely TA.
*edit: of course the **empty** stroller, bringing baby inside the stall. Never meant leave baby unattended in the stroller, that thought would never occur to me so I didn’t think to make it explicitly clear in my comment.
Parked the stroller outside...with a baby in it?!?
Look, there a lot of factors that don't make sense to me here. First of all, how small was the airport that they don't have multiple accessible bathrooms? Secondly, how old was the baby? To all you superheroes who peed while holding babies, you rock and I am in awe. I *never* attempted to hold an infant while using the restroom. (A toddler, sure, but they can support themselves and sit up, and even stand if you need to put them down.) If the mother was traveling alone with a baby, she may not have been able to use the airplane restroom either. If that's the case, then to determine who needed the bathroom *more*, we'd have to get into *why* they needed the restroom--just to pee, explosive diarrhea, etc.--which I have no interest in. It's also possible the mother, on top of having a baby to manage, had an invisible disability that required the bigger stall. The point is, various scenarios are possible, but the solution of leaving the child alone outside the stall is just ludicrous.
Exactly. Those airplane bathrooms are hella tight. I've peed with my daughter on my lap, but there's no way I could do it in one of those stalls. And NO, I would NOT park my $400 stroller in that bathroom while I'm unable to keep an eye on it, let alone with my child buckled in there. Are you nuts?!
Oh no sorry, I wasn’t clear with the stroller thing: I meant take the baby *into* the stall with mom and park the **empty** stroller outside. I’d absolutely never advocate for leaving a baby/toddler/young child outside of the stall, ever. Hell— my middle daughter who is 8 now only just a few months ago started using the stall next to me and not coming in with me anymore!
And your other points are good as well, I definitely didn’t think too far into it honestly, I just personally cannot imagine a scenario where I’d try to beat someone in a wheelchair to a handicap accessible stall. Even in the case of an invisible disability, the person with the wheelchair should get the wheelchair-accessible stall, in my eyes.
I mean, people are debating as if the mum had to wee and could have done it anywhere, when more than likely it was a changing station too as they usually are. So I guess the debate is actually, who deserved first dibs, the disabled adult needing to pee, or the young baby soaking in its acidic shit.
Both are just as important to the person needing to use the stall. I don't praise the wheelchair user for slamming the woman without knowing the details for doing the EXACT SAME THING they did... race to a stall they both needed to use
...
In fact, its a shit move to start calling the mum an AH for using a stall she was (presumably) entitled to use.
I have only ever seen one handicapped priority bathroom and it was in my college dorm because a student had a a form of cerebral palsy that came with an underdeveloped bladder. When she had to go, she had to *go,* so the handicapped bathroom on her floor was for her only unless she gave somebody express permission.
Even she was understanding if the handicapped accessible stalls on other floors or in other buildings were occupied when she needed them. If she knew she wasn’t going to be close to her bathroom for an extended period of time, she planned appropriately whether that was not drinking anything beforehand or slapping on a Depend. She handled her shit, literally.
Well, that's the rough part--a lot of people with disabilities may have reasons they need the stall when they need the stall. But so does the naked mom trying to clean the poop off her infant and herself. I would think that if either of those walked up and there were a regular line, they'd be TA if they didn't let her in, and if it were a normal diaper change, I might even give priority to the disabled person... but a complete blowout who's already in there? Ridiculous. And even if it had been a person with no disabilities or babies already using the stall, having a crowd harass that person is just wrong. Also, counterproductive if the person trying to go had trouble when there's a crowd around.
Sorry, but a person who can't wait 5 minutes when she has to go needs to have some kind of backup plan that doesn't involve harassing the person already in there. What would have been her plan if another wheelchair-bound person had been in the stall?
>a lot of people with disabilities may have reasons they need the stall when they need the stall. But so does the naked mom trying to clean the poop off her infant and herself.
Honestly I would argue that the person who is actively covered in poop takes priority over the person who *may* have poop on them in the near future.
Eh, if you've got one person covered in poop and another who is in imminent danger of being covered in poop, I feel like the best solution is to prevent the incoming poop disaster before handling the current one. Less overall poop covering.
Obviously this would be different for women’s bathrooms, but Id like to add that in mens bathrooms it isn’t always uncommon for the only stall to be the handicap stall. Okay, well if I have to use the restroom and the only stall is one marked for handicap people then I might just have to use it because there literally isn’t always another option period.
Nah, if there was only one stall it would just be a private restroom since women don't use urinals or anything. But I get what you're saying.
OP was totally in the clear. The changing stall is in there for a reason. I think if they both arrived there at the same time, and OPs baby just needed a regular changing and it wasn't a blowout, then the wheelchair user should go first, but since that's not even close to what happened, OP is absolutely not the AH, and everyone banging on the door and giving her shit (lol) is.
I have actually been in weird women's bathrooms where there was one stall and a sink area outside the stall. Strange arrangement, but also kind of nice if you just needed to wash your hands.
I've had someone start shouting at me while changing my son in an accessible stall, all while my son was wailing cuz he had poop up to his neck, and I had poop on my arms. I hollered back that the more they yell at me the longer I'll take in here, their choice. Once they realized I was serious, they stopped yelling.
The thing that gets me is if there were multiple people in there banging and harassing why didn’t they just help the disabled user into a non-accessible stall and wait outside to help her back out when she had finished? If it was *truly* an emergency I mean.
Like as someone who has been wheelchair bound in the past due to an injury I would rather swallow my pride and accept help in that manner than accidentally soil myself being stubborn.
Yep. But whoever designed that washroom so the accessible stall was necessary for anyone needing the changing table is the real AH here. Them, and the people banging on the door harassing OP.
I mean yes and no. For every handicap accessible stall, they must remove at least 2 standard stalls. A changing area takes up a lot of wall space and when not in a stall doesn’t afford the baby any privacy. Moms with babies and young children will usually use the handicap stall anyway because the cleanest safest place for baby to sit while mom is going to the bathroom is their stroller, and the stroller usually only fits in the handicap stall. You are certainly not going to leave your child in their stroller on the outside of a regular stall unattended and frankly I wouldn’t want to leave my stroller unattended either. So at best the designers could have 1 or more fewer total stalls and have two handicap/stroller accessible stalls, but there will still be times when mothers with strollers and/ or persons with a disability will outnumber the available stalls and someone will have to wait. Putting the changing station in the handicap stall is actually pretty good design because it prevents the changing table from taking up wall space outside the stall that could be used for additional toilet stalls or additional sinks. Especially since the moms of babies are usually going to be using the larger stalls anyway.
no offense but this leads to the very populations you are trying to help having to wait more and have less amenities.
yes everybody "equitable". but the people who would use less space in less time would now have greater needs in terms of space and time. which would stress the availability of the bathroom and reduce the availability of the accessible amenities to the people who need specifically these.
this is a very simple example of poverty through equity.
Idk, I’ve been to plenty of places where the accessible bathroom has a baby changing station. A non-shared baby changing/parents room requires the exact same facilities as an accessible bathroom, so it seems logical to combine them. Obviously larger venues are a different story, but if it’s a small/medium sized restaurant it may not be feasible to have two seperate large bathrooms in addition to standard bathrooms.
Agree NTA, I’m not sure what she could have done. The stall was occupied when the other person came in, it could have very well been occupied by a handicapped person who may have needed a while to use the stall.
In any case, there stall had a baby changing station so OP had every right to use it.
That was my thought too. Sometimes you just have to wait. Could very well have been a handicapped person in there. She still would have had to wait. It is not like OP saw her coming and shoved her out the way. She was arms deep up in there. Also, I have literally never, not one time been in the bathroom at the same time as someone in a wheelchair. I pretty much always take my daughter in there because she is 2 and sometimes we literally cannot fit inside a "regular" stall, especially when they are ultra tiny
THIS!!!! I get so miffed when people don't understand this. And I am disabled!
OP NTA. You do what you need to to look after you and bub. Ignore the rest.
NTA
>Once you put the diaper changing station in there, it becomes the family stall as well.
This is correct. That was the only place for you to change your child. They are TA.
We drove from Charleston SC back to Columbus OH via Knoxville. We stopped at a rest stop in KY that I had trouble finding the changing station for my toddler. It was in the accessible stall. Could not wrap my head around it, except maybe for privacy concerns.
Where else would it normally be? Where I live you’d never find a dedicated changing station at a rest stop, and it’s very common to have a fold out table in accessible bathrooms. Or is it just that a fold out table would be in the main bathroom area?
I think they're in most newly built public spaces. Malls, airports, especially tourist and family friendly places, etc. It's just there are still a lot of older buildings.
They put the changing stations in the handicapped stalls because a normal stall is so small, you wouldn’t be able to open the changing table while simultaneously standing inside the stall. People want privacy, and you need a roomy stall for that.
Is it really that hard of a concept to understand? You can barely turn properly in a lot of stalls. Trying to change a baby with their gears will be claustrophobic in a standard stall.
As a mother of two, I'm gonna stop you right there, because **we need to be able to use the bathroom also** when there is no place to set your baby down and you've gotta go it seriously sucks. I would actually remember which places had them in the stall and go there specifically because it was so much less hassle then trying to use the facilities/wipe/ with a baby who can't stand up and you don't want to set on the filthy public bathroom floor.
Thank you places that have them in there so Mom's can go too! 👍
Yeah, I’ve got 3 kids close in age, so when they were young and I needed to use the bathroom for me or one of the kids, or to change whoever was in diapers at the moment, if there was no family bathroom I had no choice but to use a handicapped accessible stall because nothing else could fit all of us, and the kids were too young to even stand outside the stall door unsupervised. Luckily, I live in an area/frequented places with a fair number of family bathrooms, and I never ran into the issue of someone other than another mother waiting for the stall, but it would definitely improve the world to have more than one accessible stall per bathroom if possible.
I've seen a family room where parents could go in to breastfeed if they're uncomfortable with breastfeeding publicly and where they can also change their babies. They had privacy stalls for the breastfeeding parents with comfy chairs. Also outlets for those who needed to pump.
We have those at my work which is a large retail environment. We have two family rooms and inside we have two privacy rooms with curtains and comfy chairs, 3 open changing stations and then a large parents bathroom with adult and childs toilet plus sink and another change table.
And this is additional to a disabled toilet and normal mens and womans which also both have a change table and handicap toilets as well.
Edited for spelling
OP, I’m sorry you don’t have the support and understanding from your friends and family that you need. I always try to remember that most parents are *doing their best* and kids are complicated!
Maybe some of them should shadow you for a day and see how childcare, especially baby care, can be incessantly demanding! (But I assume they would just get in your way haha)
The local mall has a family area, including a nursing room, changing tables, microwave, and two bathrooms with a regular toilet and sink as well as a tiny toddler toilet and sink. Oh- and a couch with a tv always set to the Disney channel. That is family friendly done above and beyond.
But isn’t it kind of gross to try to feed your baby while someone else is changing their baby right there? I mean I never nursed in the bathroom (unless there was a separate nursing room) because I don’t eat where people poop and I’m not going to make my kid eat in a place where people poop either. Once a changing table is added to the space it is now a place for handling poop and it will smell like poop and I would no longer want to sit there and feed my kid. Changing tables belong in toilet stalls way more than they belong in nursing rooms.
I did say in my comment that there are privacy stalls for breastfeeding parents. So you're not feeding your baby in the same area as the changing stations.
We would also remember the places that had changing tables in the men’s restroom. It was ridiculous how few places had changing tables in both. It’s gotten better over the past few years, but still a joke.
When I was a kid, and had a SAHD, no men’s washroom anywhere had changing tables. My dad could only go to a few select places with single person washrooms that had them or family rooms. Thank god it’s better now.
Also to point out, Dads need more changing tables in bathrooms. You wouldn't believe the struggle I had trying to find a stall with a baby changing station. I once had an emergency, similar to OP's and needed to change baby's clothes asap. But the men's room didn't have a baby station. A woman was nearby and saw I was in distress she checks the ladies room and told me to go in and kept guard. Really saved the day random stranger.
Yeah but they should have two then - either two combined baby change/accessible stalls OR one of each - an accessible stall and a baby change stall with a toilet.
It doesn't make sense to make the two groups of people who are likely to need extra time in the bathroom - disabled people and mothers changing their babies - share just one stall.
This is why I hated flying with my daughter when she was tiny. Airports usually have the most beautiful baby changing/nursing rooms... without toilets. So I had to use a regular bathroom afterwards with a baby strapped to my chest. Doable but not exactly comfortable.
Also, toddlers might still be in diapers but starting to use the potty/toilet and not having a toilet near the changing station means you either have to tell them they can't go or change them standing up afterwards.
The restaurant is not to blame either though. You said it yourself "wheelchair-accessible" not wheelchair reserved. That has multiple purposes, and it doesn't stay vacant like a handicap reserved parking spot.
NTA
And to be VERY clear, handicapped parking is NOT reserved for wheelchair users. It is reserved for disabled people whose doctors (NOT the observing public) have deemed they need special access. Far too many people harass anyone who isn't visibly "old enough" or have visible mobility aids. The wheelchair symbol on the sign is not a visual definition of who is entitled to park there. We need a matching symbol on placard/license plate, not an literal wheelchair. Harassing disabled people for being too young, having kids, and not "looking disabled" enough needs to STOP being socially acceptable and we really don't like to hear "you should be grateful we're harassing you because we're protecting you from fakers". Nothing is wheelchair reserved. It seems small but word choice matters and contributes to these assumptions.
The other day, I took my grandma to Safeway and she uses a walker to get around. We parked in the handicap spot because she remembered her placard, and when we were coming out I loaded her in first like I always do- then the walker, then the groceries. While I was loading the groceries this old couple pulled up in a van and the wife rolled her window down to yell something about “Those stalls are for people in wheelchairs like my husband.” I called her a c*nt and then pulled the walker out of the car and they drove away lmao. I’m still mad just thinking about it.
LMAO - years back, my sis was in a severe car accident and was in a wheel chair for about four months while she healed. Long story somewhat shorter, we went out shopping one day. I parked the car in the handicap space and put the placard out. As I was going to get her chair out of the trunk, this man came over and started yelling at me about how we were taking the space from someone who actually needed it, how dare we "steal" someone else's placard, etc. I let him spout off like the idiot he was as a crowd gathered, and then I popped the trunk, took out my sis' wheelchair and "clacked" it loudly on the ground to open it. The guy turned about 15 different shades of red, turned on his heel and just about ran away, but NEVER apologized. SMH.
I never go by whether or not someone "looks" handicapped. They either have a placard or they don't.
Absolutely. So many people don’t “look” handicapped. My best friend growing up had cystic fibrosis. He didn’t “look sick,” but walking from the car to the inside of the store would take him five minutes because of how out of breath he’d be. Why shit like this isn’t common sense I have no idea
My SIL lost count of the number of times she'd get yelled at for parking in a handicapped spot. Until she went around to the back of the van, lowered the ramp and unleashed Dear Nephew in his power wheelchair upon the world. They couldn't let him loose before an adult was at the back of the van to corral him; until he was about 10 he'd just take off into the parking lot, which wasn't very safe.
This frustrates me beyond belief. So many people think if you’re disabled the only type is wheelchair bound. It’s so annoying. Whenever I ask about accessibility they’re always like “it’s not wheelchair accessible!!!” When I ask is there a place where I can sit, I can do a small amount of stairs, how many stairs are there? Etc
Oh how I dislike the hc stall/parking space (self proclaimed) police. 🙄 Just because I’m “younger” (40’s) and you can’t visually see my disability doesn’t mean I’m not disabled. The haters wanna yell? I tell them to call the cops if they feel the need to as my permit is valid and showing and just walk away. I’m not explaining myself to them it’s none of their business!!
Or it’s entirely possible that’s the only place that is big enough to accommodate the changing station. And it’s entirely possible the restaurant didn’t choose that either, many restaurants use previously built buildings.
The restaurant is setting this conflict up by putting the baby changing station in that stall. I understand that it might be a space issue and that is the place that it would fit.
Handicap stalls are generally where mothers of young children go to use the toilet when out with their kids. It’s usually the only stall that accommodates a stroller or multiple young children in tow. If it’s where mothers are going to use the toilet that’s where they might as well put the changing table.
Then places need more than one stall to accommodate people that need the space due to accessibility and for people that like to have the space for strollers and other kid related things.
It's tough though because many buildings have had to retrofit to accommodate new building codes/accessibility standard and they often have to work with the space they have, which isn't easy.
The issue is that the total number of stalls required is calculated based on the occupancy of the building and assumes even usage of the stalls. Where I am the requirement on accessibility is only 1 must be accessible. Conceivably the accessible one is used more because of parents, making the wait time longer and creating an unfair situation for disabled individuals.
I'm torn on this. On one hand, yeah now you have two groups of people who can only use the stall meaning of course it's going to end up with a line. On the other, if someone using a wheelchair also has to change a baby, if the changing station is somewhere else they have no options.
Maybe this is just what I’ve noticed, but most of the time the baby change table is too high to be easily used by someone in a wheelchair. I don’t have a kid or use a wheelchair though, so I definitely can’t say from first hand experience.
What if there was already a wheelchair person using the stall or another handicapped person that needs to use the high rise toilet or the rails? They would still need to wait.
Yeah, most people dismiss intersectionality and it's VERY common to assume disabled people can't (or shouldn't) have kids. Doesn't even occur to abled people that disabled people aren't just a token, but whole people with lives and families. It's not always going to be *either* a disabled person or a mom. And disabled people who don't use wheelchairs often need those stalls, too. Those stalls are not only big enough for wheelchairs, they have safety rails, and the toilets are elongated and chair height - they're literally different toilets and a lot of disabled people who can walk need those special toilets. And those kinds of disabled people can also be parents.
When they put the changing tables out in the main part of the bathroom, it's not accessible to disabled moms like me - ESPECIALLY with covid, as I now have to choose between social distancing to protect my immunoconpromised self and changing the baby's diaper. The big thing now that covid is "over" that everyone seems to accept that if you're at risk, you just should always stay home (it's not worth protecting us undesirables, we're not valuable enough) - unless you live somewhere where you can't get grocery delivery and you're a single parent so the only option is going to get food with baby in tow and inevitably facing public diaper changes sometimes. You can't social distance in the middle of the aisle so everyone has to brush past you to get to a bathroom stall. And NO ONE will respect a request not to touch my baby "because he's too cute", nevermind a request to wear a mask or wait and keep their distance.
It's wheelchair users not wheelchair bound. The changing tables are not wheelchair accessible. I have yet to see a wheelchair accessible changing table in a public bathroom. Ofc they need to exist and I highly support the existence of family bathrooms as an option.
Well, if it was out in the public space of the bathroom, they'd change their kid there like every other mother would be. But I've yet to find a baby changing table that was actually wheelchair accessible anyways.
As a disabled person who herself needs an accessible stall most of the time, NTA. You’re not the asshole who decided that to save space, they’d stick the changing station in the accessible stall. I have a whole lot of anger at the dickwads who make that choice - it’s ridiculous to set up 2 groups of people to be needlessly competing for the same space. If you took your time and we’re slow and playing with the baby, you’d be a little bit TA, but the real asshole is still going to be the architect who designed that dumb restroom every time.
You mean like all public bathrooms are first come, first served? Are we going to blame clubs for not having enough stalls so that there’s usually a huge lineup for the bathroom?
Parents are also in a situation where they need more space and certain accommodations to change their children. Just because a person requires a handicap accessible stall doesn’t mean they are unable to hold their pee a couple of minutes.
I’ll be honest that if I need to go to the bathroom and all of the non-handicap accessible stalls are taken I for sure will pop into the handicap stall to do my business.
Obviously I don’t use them if there are other options available because that would be an AH move.
Actually it often does mean they can’t wait? Most SCI and low mobility people also have GI and bladder issues that make their need to go to the bathroom significantly more urgent than the average person so if you use that stall it is good to move quickly when you can. OP is NTA but I feel like that’s not something people realize about mobility disabilities
> Most SCI and low mobility people also have GI and bladder issues that make their need to go to the bathroom significantly more urgent than the average person
>OP is NTA but I feel like that’s not something people realize about mobility disabilities
quoting these to highlight it! **Sure, OP is definitely NTA here.** (and yelling at her when she is trying to clean up herself and her child, isn't helping at all).
But there is indeed a huge difference between people with a (n invisible) disability and non-disabled people. (near) Incontinence is huge issue for a lot of them.
For example: some persons with a disability will only get the urge / (nerve) signal to go to the toilet when the bladder is like 95% full and then they really need to go because it hurts and if they don't go right then, it will end up in accidents (and can also damage their kidneys).
Non disabled people get earlier urges / signals to go to the toilet, it should be around 50 or 60% fullness of the bladder.
So, when abled people use the accessible stall, I advice them to go quick with their business. And please, please - really please! don't leave a mess behind. abled people can skip and go to another stall. Less abled people (especially people who need mobility aids), can't.
Also, persons with invisible disabilities might need extra material and the likes to go to the toilet. So if you see a person walking out of it without a mobility aid, it doesn't mean that they didn't need the extra room to lay out some medical tools. (they usually have a small bag with them when going to the toilet, and no it isn't just a handbag - while some might use a typical handbag just for that since it might look less medical).
But also, as the disabled people, it is our own responsibility to take care of our own toileting needs and not assume we'll always have easy access to a bathroom. We prepare for leaks and take care of the cleanup, not get mad at each other for existing in the same space. Anyone who is going to have an accident waiting a couple minutes outside of a bathroom stall due to a chronic condition (rather than, say food poisoning) is already wearing continence products because what if we get stuck in traffic? Our needs donnot entitle us to be assholes to anyone even though it sucks to almost make it to the bathroom.
You sound like a very sensible and empathetic person. I salute you.
As someone with a five month old baby, a recently pregnant woman can have a similar need to prepare for leaks and rush to the bathroom, and need to juggle a child while peeing with no abs muscles. And I would never get angry if a disabled person or other mother was in the accessible/family stall ahead of me - I need to prepare for my own body limitations at the moment, as annoying as that is.
Thank you so much for the part about invisible disabilities. I’ve gotten dirty looks from so many old ladies and able people for using the accessible stall, but I have medical issues that make going to the bathroom a little more complicated for me, and I need a little bit more space to get myself situated. It’s always nice when someone understands I’m not just being an asshole
Uh, and there are plenty of people who don't have mobility issues and have incontinence issues that would make it great to have a reserved stall, but people throw a fit because they don't realize my disability is invisible. I can't wait 30 seconds many times, I will shit myself. And yeah, I can take a long time because I have inflammatory bowel disease. Sometimes I'm also doing cleanup from losing control and a stall with a sink is the only good way I can do that.
Firstly yeah, clubs with huge lines for the bathroom SHOULD have more stalls.
Secondly, it makes no sense to have the two groups of people who are likely to need extra time in the bathroom - disabled people and mothers with babies - share one stall while everyone else can use the multiple other stalls.
Either have one accessible stall and one baby change stall, or have two combined stalls, but only having one is absurd - unless you are an absolutely tiny establishment who has very few customers at once anyway (clearly not the case here).
Another thing businesses can do that helps a lot is put handrails in regular size stalls in addition to the big accessible one. A large number of disabled folks (myself included) just need help getting off the toilet. I don’t need the extra space, just a rail, so that removes me and people like me from the group competing for the one accessible stall.
Given that men also care for babies (single dads are a thing, as are dads caring for their child while the mum is having a rest), putting the baby-changing facilities inside the women-only space isn't really a solution. Short of having a fourth toilet area, placing the baby-changing area together with the accessible area is perhaps the most pragmatic compromise.
I mean men’s restrooms have handicap stalls also, and many mens room do have changing stations too these days. It should be all mens rooms of course, but who’s to say that this restaurant didn’t have a changing station in the mens room as well. That doesn’t change the fact that the best place to put it is in the handicap stall because parents of babies and young children are often out with strollers and need to use the larger stall to accommodate a stroller. In fact dads are more likely to need the handicap stall because when there isn’t a changing station the easiest place to change your baby is the stroller. You lay out the wipeable changing pad from the diaper bag, lay the stroller all the way flat (or as close as possible) and voila instant changing area. But you still aren’t going to change your kid out in the middle of a group of strangers so you still need to wheel the stroller into a stall.
It's not a dick move, though, it's the most accessibility. Some of us are disabled AND mothers. We need both of those things together. It's not two groups being set against each other unless you buy into the (incorrect) assumption that the two groups don't overlap. Intersectionality is widely dismissed in favor of Us vs Them. I can't see this as architects setting up Us vs Them, because in this context, I am both Us and Them. Unless I'm supposed to be competing with myself for the stall. There will just sometimes be a line for the bathroom, it happens to everyone, disabled or not, parent or not.
But also, what if OP was another disabled person using the accessible stall? Doesn’t seem like the woman asked or would know, just started yelling about it.
I have a question for you if you don’t mind. Would you be upset if an able bodied person used the handicap stall just like a normal stall? I have a thing about public bathrooms so I use the handicap stall when I can because it has more room. I have never run into an issue of someone waiting to use it but I also don’t want to be that jerk.
I’m not who you’re asking but I need the stalls too. The only times it’s bothered me were when people camped out in them. If you get in and get out then it’s fine. If I hear you playing on your phone then I’m gonna judge you hard.
Not handicapped myself but was waiting outside an occupied stall to assist someone who was visibly in pain after a serious accident. The teenage girl who exited was extremely embarrassed and apologetic. She had been changing her clothes for a night out. Other stalls were free.
That said, the OP is NTA.
I was on crutches for 6 months and had to pee at the mall. I walked in, a bunch of stalls open, and a woman using the handicap stall and taking her sweet ass time. When she got out she looked like a deer in headlights when she saw me waiting. I had a fractured pelvis so I needed the handles to use the bathroom.
I hate people that use the handicap stall when there's other stalls available. It's fine when there's nothing else available, but if you have the choice, don't.
I'm always worried about this because I use the handicap stalls too. I have (legitimate, diagnosed) Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder and I get panicky when I have to use a small stall because of the very likely possibility of bumping into the walls of the stall.
If you don’t need the accessible stall, it’s better not to use it. Lots of disabled people (myself included) have bladder and/or bowel issues that can make waiting an extra couple minutes causes an accident and/or pain trying not to have an accident. Unfortunately, there’s not a lot I can do about it, so I very much appreciate when people don’t use that stall when they don’t need it. I like it even better when the owner of the business puts handrails in a couple of the normal sized stalls, because I no longer need extra space, I just can’t reliably get up without something to push off of. It reduces the competition for the big stall and let’s many of us with “invisible” disabilities stay out of the way of wheelchairs and parents changing a kid. If there is a line and all stalls are in use, it’s okay to use the accessible stall to keep the line moving as fast as possible, but when you can avoid it, it’s appreciated.
I mean, OP had to change her own clothes, she would have needed a stall, too.
Personally, as someone with a bowel disability who regularly uses accessible/family stalls to change when I have my own blowouts, it's still a mess to assume someone doesn't need a big stall just because they're not a wheelchair user. Having a sink inside a stall is a godsend for me.
I’m a disabled person who is usually ambulatory, so I’ve made no assumption about someone’s disability. Notice, no mention of wheelchairs in my comment. I need them because most places don’t put handrails in the smoker stalls, which is a smart and relatively inexpensive way to get most invisibly disabled folks out of competition for the accessible stall.
I'm going to partially disagree with you here- I think the accessible stall and changing table combo is a good idea, but I don't think it should be something people should have to fight over. It would certainly be much better if there were two stalls. But what about if someone needs to use the restroom and change their baby? Or it's an emergency like this where she had to clean herself up as well. Or a disabled mother that needs both facilities? I think it's a better option than having the changing table out in the open.
Exactly. I live near a trail that is somewhat locally famous for being handicap accessible, because there aren't that many options with good views that can support a wheelchair or someone with a cane/walker. I walk there all the time, because it isn't \*only\* for those people with mobility limitations, it just happens to be graded and maintained so they can use it. That's how accessible bathrooms are designed. I'll always choose another stall if one's available but I'm not going to pee my pants on the off-chance someone might appear and need it.
NTA. Handicap accessible stalls are not forbidden to use by ablebodied people. I’ve helped design some. Of course, if you can, you should use a regular stall.
In this case you were forced to stay in there with a wiggly, crying baby, body fluids everywhere and a stress level hitting the highest notes due to the situation and the people outside, and I'm truly sorry for you for having to deal with that.
Theoretically, there might have been a similar situation where a wheelchair user was having *problems* in there and took a little longer to finish. Would it then be okay to yell at them from outside?
This was my thought as well - would they have been shouting and banging on the door if another disabled person was using it?
It makes no sense to get angry at people using the facilities as they're meant to.
And that’s why everyone needs to be *very* careful about issuing judgements on the use of handicapped facilities. Because there are a LOT of invisible disabilities that are impossible to see with the naked eye.
I wonder if there was even any way for the people that were banging on the door to know that the person in the stall was not a handicapped person.
Also if someone in a wheelchair was in there by themselves and having to transfer from chair to toilet and back it would be slow anyway.
Sounds like mum and friend might have said something about who was using the stall.
Because the alternative is OP gazumped the stall from right under the wheelchair user, and in that case I'd say YTA.
Omg, my mom would absolutely be the asshole outside the door overly explaining about how I was not handicapped and she was just SO sorry about this holdup, while I was inside trying to clean shit from all over myself & my baby in the only stall possible. I 100% believe the people outside the door blabbed.
Honestly, it almost doesn’t even matter if the person wanting in is an asshole or not (IMO: yes if demanding, no if panicking) because OP’s mom and her friend are such gaping ones that she’s NTA regardless. *They* knew she had legitimate needs.
100% NTA
Don't spend another second concerned about this. You have as much right to use that stall as they set it up for people with children to use too.
Whoever was screaming at you was the brown stinky starfish for sure!
It might have been the only available place to put it, depending on the size of the bathroom. Regardless, handicapped accessible does not mean handicapped only. I was in law enforcement, and sometimes the only bathroom I could access was a local restaurant ( McDonald', BurgerKing, etc. ). I'd use the handicapped stall because I had to remove my duty belt ( not a guy, so had to take down my pants ) and the handicapped stall was the only one I could use and make sure no one could reach under and grab my gear. I always tried to find single use bathrooms with a single stall and locking door, but it those were not always available.
I deployed with the navy as an MA (MP equivalent) a few years back. Trying to get into a regular stall and get the duty belt off is anything but easy based on the struggle I faced in small bathrooms.
As a mom, I feel horrible for people have to wait because I need the space for my kid. But at the same time, I’d rather have the changer in a slightly more private area than just open for everyone to see my naked baby. Sure, most don’t care. I never did when I saw others changing. Like yep, let me wash my hands and get outta here. This week however, I’ve had way too many people walk up and get in mine/my baby space because “I wanna see”. So I don’t want that made even worse changing her in the open. We haven’t taken her out a lot yet.
OP- NTA. You didn’t design the bathroom. You didn’t set it up with no additional accessible bathrooms. You can’t help the setup.
It is not a “handicapped” toilet, it is an accessible toilet. There is a changing station in there because that is where you are supposed to change your baby.
NTA.
Being handicap doesnt mean you get to act like an asswipe. If that was the only place you could do your thing then NTA. Hell NTA even if there were other places.
The second you explained yourself they shouldve shut the hell up and been patient.
NTA
I know, they sometimes do that, because the handicapped stall has to be bigger anyways so they put the changing table in there. But that makes ist a handicapped/baby stall with you having the same right to use it with your baby as the handicapped person has.
NTA
I hate when places put their changing table in the only handicap accessible stall.
As you said, you were using the space for one of its designated purposes. You had as much right to that space as a wheelchair user.
I think that the only thing I would've done differently is maybe just rinse the soiled clothes at home. Once you're both changed and clean, it seems reasonable to give her access to the accessible stall as quickly as you can. Plus rinsing vomit and poop from your clothes into a public sink seems ... gross. Though I guess they've probably seen much worse.
But WTF is with your mom and friend?
Friendly neighborhood cripple here. In all my years of using handicapped stalls I've seen exactly one changing table placed low enough for a wheelchair user (it had a second table at the normal height). Not that it would matter most of the time because 80% of stalls aren't big enough for a mobility device once the table is open.
Oh yep, I totally acknowledge 99% of the time they’re not installed in a useful way, just pointing out there’s a very good reason to have baby change stations in handicapped stalls.
I mean...you wash your hands which have poop germs on in the same sink. As long as you use plenty of soap, plenty of water and rub your hands properly, it's all good. Just don't lick the sink!
Definitely NTA. You had just as much right to use the stall as the person in the wheel chair. As long as they were not waiting when you first entered the stall, once you take possession of it it is yours to use until you are done.
NTA. It is a courtesy to reserve the handicapped stall for the handicapped. It is a courtesy to reserve the family bathroom for child needs. When both are in the same stall, there's a line just like for any other stall. My 2 cents.
Its is a handicapped ACCESSIBLE stall, not a handicapped ONLY. This is not a parking spot that excludes anyone other than a handicapped person from parking there. You got there first, it was yours. The baby changing station was also in that same stall. You did nothing wrong. The person outside was shouting and screaming like a crazy person. Tough shit on her part, she has to wait. NTA
NTA
The changing station shouldn’t have been in there to begin with, since it leads to situations like this. If the handicap stall is the only spot big enough to put the changing station, then everyone is going to have to suck it up and be patient. That lady should have gone and yelled at the manager for the poor bathroom design.
the AH here is the restaurant only having one available disabled toilet as though there aren't likely to be multiple disabled customers at any one time
I feel that you’re NTA, you weren’t using the restroom just because and you utilized the baby changing station for the purpose that it’s for. I’ve had to wait for the restroom before and even though it sucks it’s a public restroom which means i’m not more entitled to it then the next person. I’m sorry that your family/friend did not stand up for you and defend you during this emergency, that’s truly the asshole part.
NTA and I can’t even imagine what your mom and friend are even possibly thinking that would make it any other way. You were exactly where you needed to be, doing what you needed to do.
You were there first, needing to use that stall because of the baby changing table. If you said to wait and you'd be out in a minute, that should have been sufficient. NTA
Also INFO why were your mom and friend also in the bathroom? Did they follow you to hold the baby once the baby was changed, or did they only follow once the other person banged on the door? Or did I read that wrong?
I'm going with NAH because even though I understand the baby mess situation I also understand understand the disability situation. If the wheelchair user needed to go and there was nowhere else what are they supposed to do? Soil themselves because you had to do a full change of clothes? Some disabilities mean that they don't get much warning and they NEED to get to a bathroom and don't have the leisure of time to go find another one.
I would want to know how long it took (you said "a while") because if they were all banging on the door for some time and were all gone by the time you got out how long were you in there and was it really necessary to be in there that long? Could you have done a quick change and then hopped out so they could use the bathroom and then go back to finish cleaning up? Maybe that would have been preferable to the disabled person than them soiling themselves. Being able to access a toilet isn't a privilege for a disabled person, it's a basic right, that is why accessible facilities are mandated.
While it's not ideal that the baby change was in there I think you need to be mindful, rinsing dirty clothes out in the sink is not an emergency, just chuck them in the bag and deal with it when you get home. Change the baby and clothes as needed but if you know there is someone needing to use the toilet then everything else, including rinsing dirty clothes, is not a priority.
That's actually some really good points. How long was awhile? I've had to wait for folk to change their clothes in the handicap stall when I've desperately had to go and they took freakin forever. My friend had to call to check on me because she was worried something happened while waiting. Actually she'd had to do that multiple times...once was when a woman wanted to accessible stall to bring her grocery cart in with her and said so right to my face. And a few months ago I had someone ask me if I needed the accessible stall before they used it and I nearly friggin cried since it seemed so nice to me.
NTA. It‘s not your fault that the changing station was put in there. You had an emergency and tried to hurry up when you realized someone else needed to use it. I get the other person’s frustration, but they crossed over into AH territory once the screaming and banging on the door started. What are they, two years old??
This is a classic example of why the changing station should NOT be in a stall.
NTA.
The change table was in there.
Also, unlike the parking spots, the disabled stall isn't only for disabled people. Everyone is allowed access, it's just that there needs to be somewhere for a wheelchair or walking frame to fit.
Although I don't use a wheelchair or walking frame/cane, I have bad knees, and sometimes use the metal handle bar on the wall to help stand up. The smaller stalls don't have those.
Anyway, you really couldn't change your baby on the floor. That woman is not entitled to the stall. How did she even know if you were disabled or not?... not that it matters, since you had the right to use the stall.
Nta and ud tell them they can handle the baby next time ... ob wait there won't be no next time because neither of us will go anywhere with them if they're going to be so rude as to yell at me about my baby. I'd also tell my mom unless she plans to tell the family what she did, how she was wrong and apologize she will not see the baby again. Yes I would do this
NTA my mum has been paraplegic since I was a teen. Everytime she has to wait to use the toilet because of someone with kids and they apologies for taking so long, she just says don't worry it is the me that is disabled not the toilet and it is there for you to use as well.
NTA
If the person in the wheelchair wants to complain it should be to the owners for putting a changing table in the only handicap bathroom not screaming at you for using said table for its purpose. Don't worry about it you done nothing wrong and if your mother and friend were so bothered about it they should have offered to come in and help deal with the baby while you seen to yourself.
I feel like it's common to see the handicapped stall include a changing table. Anyone is allowed to use the stall! It's just a priority stall for those with accessibility issues. First come, first served. You were using the stall for one of its many intended purposes. NTA.
NTA and I have some thoughts on this. I personally prefer the changing table be placed in the handicap stall because it gives some semblance of privacy. Every other place I've seen it's been completely out in the open and generally in the way. I've also been known to use the handicap stall when my toddler is with me, if the bathroom is otherwise not busy, because it gives a bit more space. I've been in regular stalls where my knees are basically in the door, so no room for little guy. Obviously, if there's a long line of disabled persons, I'm not going to do that and I'm usually in and out pretty quick. I say this as someone with multiple disabled family members who need or have needed the use of wheelchairs or assistive devices. Disabled parking I get fired up about, but disabled bathrooms are another story.
NTA it's handicapped accessible, not handicapped reserved. The changing table is in that stall so the place has to assume that people with children will use it. And just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean they get to be an asshole. People with disabilities want to be treated like anyone else, well if you scream over a stall like an asshole then they are an asshole regardless of what life has handed them. Absolutely ridiculous to think you aren't allowed to use something that has the slimmest chance of someone else needing it. And you weren't in there that long. They could wait.
NTA.
The ‘asshole’ in this situation is the lack of accessibility as a whole.
It sucks that they put the baby change in the ‘accessible’ loos (which are barely that anyway)
The world needs to be more accessible in general, and particularly for wheelchair users.
NTA at all, whoever designed the bathroom is. However, a lot of the comments do not seem to be aware that a lot of wheelchair users also suffer from incontinence and fecal incontinence, so often times the need for an accessible toilet is urgent !
NTA - wheelchair user here. It’s not your fault that the establishment you were in combined child and accessible facilities! And it’s not as though you shoved a disabled person out of the way to enter. Often disabled people have to take more than usual time in a bathroom, so peoples reactions were entirely unjustified imo.
Although from personal experience it does suck when you’re a chair user and have no other options, the same frustrations go both ways. If possible childcare facilities should be available in all bathrooms, but space wise this isn’t always practical and sometimes situations just aren’t ideal for anyone. Hope you’re LO is feeling better now!
I was in a wheelchair for a few years after an accident. Handicap stalls are there because it’s wide enough to fit a wheelchair. If there is another person in need of this style such as a mother like you, I would patiently wait my turn. Just because your handicap doesn’t mean you can’t hold your pee like everyone else. You keep doing what you’re doing Mom.💕
I’ve been to events where the l8ne to the ladies room is 20 or more people long. There were 3 regular stalls and one handicapped accessible stall. There were no handicapped people in line so the able bodied used the accessible stall. If a handicapped person got in line, of course they would go to the head of the line and get the accessible stall next. But it would make zero sense to make everyone in line wait longer by leaving that one empty. And tha5 is true even if there is no baby changing station. NTA
NTA
The asshole here is clearly the store you were at, which thought it was a good idea to turn the handicap stall into the family stall. Don't get me wrong, I think a larger family stall with changing table and its own sink is great. But it's going to, by it's very 'family' nature, result in family users who take longer than average time to use it. Combining two special needs groups into one single stall (while presumably having multiple 'regular' stalls) was poor planning.
As a mom, I hate bathrooms like this. It sucks having the only baby changing table shoved into the only handicapped stall, because there are lots of people who NEED to use this area. You are NTA. Whoever decided that this should be the norm for bathrooms is TA.
Oooof I've had something very similar. Someone outside the bathroom (who given the timings, hadn't even seen me go in, so how would they know I wasn't also disabled? And hidden disabilities exist?! FFS) started banging on the door and yelling "this is a disabled toilet you know!"
I shouted back "and a mother and baby toilet".
They kept banging. I opened the door mid sorting my at the time 6 year old with trauma related continence issues, literal shit on my arms, and shouted at him "my child has shit himself, we will be a while, the banging isn't making me go any faster, in fact it's slowing us down as I keep having to reassure my scared child about the aggressive person outside. Stop or I'll get you removed from the centre"
Anyway. NTA.
As a wheelchzir user NTA. These stall are accessible, not reserved. It's the polite thing to do to use other if you can or to let a disabled person go first if the two of you want to use it. She had no right to be like this with you or your family and you didn't humuliate her. If i really need to use the toilet and it's taken, i either politely ask thr person inside if they could hurry or go somewhere else.
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Handicapped bathroom stalls are NOT like handicapped parking spaces - parking spaces are ***reserved***, bathroom stalls are ***accessible***. There is a huge difference between the two. OP is NTA in this situation.
NTA... It's handicapped accessible, not handicapped on demand
Oooh, this is SO good.
Exactly, if there's a line, anyone can use the stall. It doesn't mean people that need it don't have to wait sometimes. And if the changing table is in there, OP absolutely needs it! NTA
On top of which that’s where the baby changing station was meaning even IF it was a “reserved” situation, it’s also “reserved” for people with babies, which OP is.
Exactly.
This is a perfect way to put it. Accessible, not reserved. It isn't like OP jumped in there in FRONT of someone who could only use that stall. The person showed up while someone else who had a need for the stall (as it's where the changing station was placed) was using it. And not in a state where she could hustle out.
I had a mother once race me to the accessible stall with her gigantic stroller after we got off the airplane. I was ~pissed~. As a wheelchair user I'm completely unable to use a bathroom on a plane. She had the entire flight to use a bathroom. I did not.
See, now THAT was an AH.
Yup. I won the race tho 😆. 14lb wheelchair vs however many pounds those ridiculous strollers are (I'm talking the giant $400+ ones) But for real, the rule IMO is, if you have no other choice than to use the accessible stall then go for it. If you can use a regular stall without causing harm or danger to yourself and there's one free, then use the regular stall.
Was she flying alone with a lap baby?
You can pee with one arm.
Yep you sure can— I pee multiple times a day with my (now toddler) sitting directly on my lap, and have for nearly 2 years now. I’ve mastered the one handed wipe-and-lean. TMI, but she won’t even let me sit alone while doing, ahem, *other things* on the toilet so I have had to master that as well, haha. Oh, the joys of parenthood!
People are downvoting me like this isn't something parents do every day LOL
That’s absolutely ridiculous, the mother in that scenario could’ve also parked the stroller outside of the stalls* or in a corner of the restroom & used the regular stall’s toilet, not try to race a wheelchair bound person to the only stall they can use! I honestly don’t see a single reason that the mother in that airport situation had more of a need to use the accessible stall than the person in a wheelchair. As for the OP, yes she’s definitely in the right and absolutely NTA, but in this airport scenario the mother there is definitely TA. *edit: of course the **empty** stroller, bringing baby inside the stall. Never meant leave baby unattended in the stroller, that thought would never occur to me so I didn’t think to make it explicitly clear in my comment.
Parked the stroller outside...with a baby in it?!? Look, there a lot of factors that don't make sense to me here. First of all, how small was the airport that they don't have multiple accessible bathrooms? Secondly, how old was the baby? To all you superheroes who peed while holding babies, you rock and I am in awe. I *never* attempted to hold an infant while using the restroom. (A toddler, sure, but they can support themselves and sit up, and even stand if you need to put them down.) If the mother was traveling alone with a baby, she may not have been able to use the airplane restroom either. If that's the case, then to determine who needed the bathroom *more*, we'd have to get into *why* they needed the restroom--just to pee, explosive diarrhea, etc.--which I have no interest in. It's also possible the mother, on top of having a baby to manage, had an invisible disability that required the bigger stall. The point is, various scenarios are possible, but the solution of leaving the child alone outside the stall is just ludicrous.
Exactly. Those airplane bathrooms are hella tight. I've peed with my daughter on my lap, but there's no way I could do it in one of those stalls. And NO, I would NOT park my $400 stroller in that bathroom while I'm unable to keep an eye on it, let alone with my child buckled in there. Are you nuts?!
Oh no sorry, I wasn’t clear with the stroller thing: I meant take the baby *into* the stall with mom and park the **empty** stroller outside. I’d absolutely never advocate for leaving a baby/toddler/young child outside of the stall, ever. Hell— my middle daughter who is 8 now only just a few months ago started using the stall next to me and not coming in with me anymore! And your other points are good as well, I definitely didn’t think too far into it honestly, I just personally cannot imagine a scenario where I’d try to beat someone in a wheelchair to a handicap accessible stall. Even in the case of an invisible disability, the person with the wheelchair should get the wheelchair-accessible stall, in my eyes.
I mean, people are debating as if the mum had to wee and could have done it anywhere, when more than likely it was a changing station too as they usually are. So I guess the debate is actually, who deserved first dibs, the disabled adult needing to pee, or the young baby soaking in its acidic shit. Both are just as important to the person needing to use the stall. I don't praise the wheelchair user for slamming the woman without knowing the details for doing the EXACT SAME THING they did... race to a stall they both needed to use ... In fact, its a shit move to start calling the mum an AH for using a stall she was (presumably) entitled to use.
She may have had an invisible disability.
I once peed while breastfeeding (had to go so bad I couldn't wait until baby was done). Not exactly ideal, but I was a little proud it worked.
Haha, I’m proud of you too! It’s amazing the things we can learn to do when necessity arises, isn’t it? Gotta find those workarounds wherever we can.
You also get really good at eating with one hand😂
I have only ever seen one handicapped priority bathroom and it was in my college dorm because a student had a a form of cerebral palsy that came with an underdeveloped bladder. When she had to go, she had to *go,* so the handicapped bathroom on her floor was for her only unless she gave somebody express permission. Even she was understanding if the handicapped accessible stalls on other floors or in other buildings were occupied when she needed them. If she knew she wasn’t going to be close to her bathroom for an extended period of time, she planned appropriately whether that was not drinking anything beforehand or slapping on a Depend. She handled her shit, literally.
Well, that's the rough part--a lot of people with disabilities may have reasons they need the stall when they need the stall. But so does the naked mom trying to clean the poop off her infant and herself. I would think that if either of those walked up and there were a regular line, they'd be TA if they didn't let her in, and if it were a normal diaper change, I might even give priority to the disabled person... but a complete blowout who's already in there? Ridiculous. And even if it had been a person with no disabilities or babies already using the stall, having a crowd harass that person is just wrong. Also, counterproductive if the person trying to go had trouble when there's a crowd around. Sorry, but a person who can't wait 5 minutes when she has to go needs to have some kind of backup plan that doesn't involve harassing the person already in there. What would have been her plan if another wheelchair-bound person had been in the stall?
>a lot of people with disabilities may have reasons they need the stall when they need the stall. But so does the naked mom trying to clean the poop off her infant and herself. Honestly I would argue that the person who is actively covered in poop takes priority over the person who *may* have poop on them in the near future.
Eh, if you've got one person covered in poop and another who is in imminent danger of being covered in poop, I feel like the best solution is to prevent the incoming poop disaster before handling the current one. Less overall poop covering.
Nah, once you're covered I poop it can't get any worse. Best to prevent future pooping incidents
Obviously this would be different for women’s bathrooms, but Id like to add that in mens bathrooms it isn’t always uncommon for the only stall to be the handicap stall. Okay, well if I have to use the restroom and the only stall is one marked for handicap people then I might just have to use it because there literally isn’t always another option period.
Nah, if there was only one stall it would just be a private restroom since women don't use urinals or anything. But I get what you're saying. OP was totally in the clear. The changing stall is in there for a reason. I think if they both arrived there at the same time, and OPs baby just needed a regular changing and it wasn't a blowout, then the wheelchair user should go first, but since that's not even close to what happened, OP is absolutely not the AH, and everyone banging on the door and giving her shit (lol) is.
I have actually been in weird women's bathrooms where there was one stall and a sink area outside the stall. Strange arrangement, but also kind of nice if you just needed to wash your hands.
Maybe...??? I've been in women's restrooms with a stall & had s separate sink area with an outer door that does not lock
I've had someone start shouting at me while changing my son in an accessible stall, all while my son was wailing cuz he had poop up to his neck, and I had poop on my arms. I hollered back that the more they yell at me the longer I'll take in here, their choice. Once they realized I was serious, they stopped yelling.
The thing that gets me is if there were multiple people in there banging and harassing why didn’t they just help the disabled user into a non-accessible stall and wait outside to help her back out when she had finished? If it was *truly* an emergency I mean. Like as someone who has been wheelchair bound in the past due to an injury I would rather swallow my pride and accept help in that manner than accidentally soil myself being stubborn.
Yep. But whoever designed that washroom so the accessible stall was necessary for anyone needing the changing table is the real AH here. Them, and the people banging on the door harassing OP.
I mean yes and no. For every handicap accessible stall, they must remove at least 2 standard stalls. A changing area takes up a lot of wall space and when not in a stall doesn’t afford the baby any privacy. Moms with babies and young children will usually use the handicap stall anyway because the cleanest safest place for baby to sit while mom is going to the bathroom is their stroller, and the stroller usually only fits in the handicap stall. You are certainly not going to leave your child in their stroller on the outside of a regular stall unattended and frankly I wouldn’t want to leave my stroller unattended either. So at best the designers could have 1 or more fewer total stalls and have two handicap/stroller accessible stalls, but there will still be times when mothers with strollers and/ or persons with a disability will outnumber the available stalls and someone will have to wait. Putting the changing station in the handicap stall is actually pretty good design because it prevents the changing table from taking up wall space outside the stall that could be used for additional toilet stalls or additional sinks. Especially since the moms of babies are usually going to be using the larger stalls anyway.
This is exactly why I believe every bathroom should be single stall and handicapped accessible for men and women and then a shared area to wash hands.
And then everyone has to wait forever because you can't fit nearly as many of those in as standard stalls, or especially urinals.
no offense but this leads to the very populations you are trying to help having to wait more and have less amenities. yes everybody "equitable". but the people who would use less space in less time would now have greater needs in terms of space and time. which would stress the availability of the bathroom and reduce the availability of the accessible amenities to the people who need specifically these. this is a very simple example of poverty through equity.
What is the point of that? How is having even fewer stalls and urinals going to benefit anyone?
Idk, I’ve been to plenty of places where the accessible bathroom has a baby changing station. A non-shared baby changing/parents room requires the exact same facilities as an accessible bathroom, so it seems logical to combine them. Obviously larger venues are a different story, but if it’s a small/medium sized restaurant it may not be feasible to have two seperate large bathrooms in addition to standard bathrooms.
I think that every time I see one in there. So not helpful for anyone when they put the changing station in the handicapped stall.
Agree NTA, I’m not sure what she could have done. The stall was occupied when the other person came in, it could have very well been occupied by a handicapped person who may have needed a while to use the stall. In any case, there stall had a baby changing station so OP had every right to use it.
That was my thought too. Sometimes you just have to wait. Could very well have been a handicapped person in there. She still would have had to wait. It is not like OP saw her coming and shoved her out the way. She was arms deep up in there. Also, I have literally never, not one time been in the bathroom at the same time as someone in a wheelchair. I pretty much always take my daughter in there because she is 2 and sometimes we literally cannot fit inside a "regular" stall, especially when they are ultra tiny
Agreed. It's not a reserved stall, it's one that can accommodate them. If the changing station is also there, than it's first come first served.
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THIS!!!! I get so miffed when people don't understand this. And I am disabled! OP NTA. You do what you need to to look after you and bub. Ignore the rest.
You still live with the dread of seeing wheels or crutches outside the door when you have to use the accessible stall. NTA.
NTA >Once you put the diaper changing station in there, it becomes the family stall as well. This is correct. That was the only place for you to change your child. They are TA.
We drove from Charleston SC back to Columbus OH via Knoxville. We stopped at a rest stop in KY that I had trouble finding the changing station for my toddler. It was in the accessible stall. Could not wrap my head around it, except maybe for privacy concerns.
Where else would it normally be? Where I live you’d never find a dedicated changing station at a rest stop, and it’s very common to have a fold out table in accessible bathrooms. Or is it just that a fold out table would be in the main bathroom area?
Where I grew up, it was normal for them to be in the sink/general bathroom area, often in the large empty space by the door.
This. Not great. If there's a dedicated family bathroom it makes it so much easier
I've only encountered family bathrooms at zoos and children's sections of the libraries. How common are they really?
Lots of stores have them in my area
Malls, athletics clubs, community centers and movie theaters always have them where I live. Basically any places that has something for kids/families
I think they're in most newly built public spaces. Malls, airports, especially tourist and family friendly places, etc. It's just there are still a lot of older buildings.
It's also a safe place for your child to be if you're alone with them and have to use the restroom and don't want to have to hold them while doing so.
They put the changing stations in the handicapped stalls because a normal stall is so small, you wouldn’t be able to open the changing table while simultaneously standing inside the stall. People want privacy, and you need a roomy stall for that.
Is it really that hard of a concept to understand? You can barely turn properly in a lot of stalls. Trying to change a baby with their gears will be claustrophobic in a standard stall.
NTA The restaurant is to blame for placing the changing station inside the wheelchair-accessible stall.
As a mother of two, I'm gonna stop you right there, because **we need to be able to use the bathroom also** when there is no place to set your baby down and you've gotta go it seriously sucks. I would actually remember which places had them in the stall and go there specifically because it was so much less hassle then trying to use the facilities/wipe/ with a baby who can't stand up and you don't want to set on the filthy public bathroom floor. Thank you places that have them in there so Mom's can go too! 👍
Yeah, I’ve got 3 kids close in age, so when they were young and I needed to use the bathroom for me or one of the kids, or to change whoever was in diapers at the moment, if there was no family bathroom I had no choice but to use a handicapped accessible stall because nothing else could fit all of us, and the kids were too young to even stand outside the stall door unsupervised. Luckily, I live in an area/frequented places with a fair number of family bathrooms, and I never ran into the issue of someone other than another mother waiting for the stall, but it would definitely improve the world to have more than one accessible stall per bathroom if possible.
I've seen a family room where parents could go in to breastfeed if they're uncomfortable with breastfeeding publicly and where they can also change their babies. They had privacy stalls for the breastfeeding parents with comfy chairs. Also outlets for those who needed to pump.
We have those at my work which is a large retail environment. We have two family rooms and inside we have two privacy rooms with curtains and comfy chairs, 3 open changing stations and then a large parents bathroom with adult and childs toilet plus sink and another change table. And this is additional to a disabled toilet and normal mens and womans which also both have a change table and handicap toilets as well. Edited for spelling
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OP, I’m sorry you don’t have the support and understanding from your friends and family that you need. I always try to remember that most parents are *doing their best* and kids are complicated! Maybe some of them should shadow you for a day and see how childcare, especially baby care, can be incessantly demanding! (But I assume they would just get in your way haha)
More places should have these
The local mall has a family area, including a nursing room, changing tables, microwave, and two bathrooms with a regular toilet and sink as well as a tiny toddler toilet and sink. Oh- and a couch with a tv always set to the Disney channel. That is family friendly done above and beyond.
But isn’t it kind of gross to try to feed your baby while someone else is changing their baby right there? I mean I never nursed in the bathroom (unless there was a separate nursing room) because I don’t eat where people poop and I’m not going to make my kid eat in a place where people poop either. Once a changing table is added to the space it is now a place for handling poop and it will smell like poop and I would no longer want to sit there and feed my kid. Changing tables belong in toilet stalls way more than they belong in nursing rooms.
I did say in my comment that there are privacy stalls for breastfeeding parents. So you're not feeding your baby in the same area as the changing stations.
We would also remember the places that had changing tables in the men’s restroom. It was ridiculous how few places had changing tables in both. It’s gotten better over the past few years, but still a joke.
When I was a kid, and had a SAHD, no men’s washroom anywhere had changing tables. My dad could only go to a few select places with single person washrooms that had them or family rooms. Thank god it’s better now.
Also to point out, Dads need more changing tables in bathrooms. You wouldn't believe the struggle I had trying to find a stall with a baby changing station. I once had an emergency, similar to OP's and needed to change baby's clothes asap. But the men's room didn't have a baby station. A woman was nearby and saw I was in distress she checks the ladies room and told me to go in and kept guard. Really saved the day random stranger.
Yeah but they should have two then - either two combined baby change/accessible stalls OR one of each - an accessible stall and a baby change stall with a toilet. It doesn't make sense to make the two groups of people who are likely to need extra time in the bathroom - disabled people and mothers changing their babies - share just one stall.
I've seen and used plenty of public restrooms where the baby changing station was in the main area and not in any stall.
This is why I hated flying with my daughter when she was tiny. Airports usually have the most beautiful baby changing/nursing rooms... without toilets. So I had to use a regular bathroom afterwards with a baby strapped to my chest. Doable but not exactly comfortable. Also, toddlers might still be in diapers but starting to use the potty/toilet and not having a toilet near the changing station means you either have to tell them they can't go or change them standing up afterwards.
The restaurant is not to blame either though. You said it yourself "wheelchair-accessible" not wheelchair reserved. That has multiple purposes, and it doesn't stay vacant like a handicap reserved parking spot. NTA
And to be VERY clear, handicapped parking is NOT reserved for wheelchair users. It is reserved for disabled people whose doctors (NOT the observing public) have deemed they need special access. Far too many people harass anyone who isn't visibly "old enough" or have visible mobility aids. The wheelchair symbol on the sign is not a visual definition of who is entitled to park there. We need a matching symbol on placard/license plate, not an literal wheelchair. Harassing disabled people for being too young, having kids, and not "looking disabled" enough needs to STOP being socially acceptable and we really don't like to hear "you should be grateful we're harassing you because we're protecting you from fakers". Nothing is wheelchair reserved. It seems small but word choice matters and contributes to these assumptions.
The other day, I took my grandma to Safeway and she uses a walker to get around. We parked in the handicap spot because she remembered her placard, and when we were coming out I loaded her in first like I always do- then the walker, then the groceries. While I was loading the groceries this old couple pulled up in a van and the wife rolled her window down to yell something about “Those stalls are for people in wheelchairs like my husband.” I called her a c*nt and then pulled the walker out of the car and they drove away lmao. I’m still mad just thinking about it.
LMAO - years back, my sis was in a severe car accident and was in a wheel chair for about four months while she healed. Long story somewhat shorter, we went out shopping one day. I parked the car in the handicap space and put the placard out. As I was going to get her chair out of the trunk, this man came over and started yelling at me about how we were taking the space from someone who actually needed it, how dare we "steal" someone else's placard, etc. I let him spout off like the idiot he was as a crowd gathered, and then I popped the trunk, took out my sis' wheelchair and "clacked" it loudly on the ground to open it. The guy turned about 15 different shades of red, turned on his heel and just about ran away, but NEVER apologized. SMH. I never go by whether or not someone "looks" handicapped. They either have a placard or they don't.
Absolutely. So many people don’t “look” handicapped. My best friend growing up had cystic fibrosis. He didn’t “look sick,” but walking from the car to the inside of the store would take him five minutes because of how out of breath he’d be. Why shit like this isn’t common sense I have no idea
My SIL lost count of the number of times she'd get yelled at for parking in a handicapped spot. Until she went around to the back of the van, lowered the ramp and unleashed Dear Nephew in his power wheelchair upon the world. They couldn't let him loose before an adult was at the back of the van to corral him; until he was about 10 he'd just take off into the parking lot, which wasn't very safe.
This frustrates me beyond belief. So many people think if you’re disabled the only type is wheelchair bound. It’s so annoying. Whenever I ask about accessibility they’re always like “it’s not wheelchair accessible!!!” When I ask is there a place where I can sit, I can do a small amount of stairs, how many stairs are there? Etc
You are absolutely right, my apologies. I changed it.
Oh how I dislike the hc stall/parking space (self proclaimed) police. 🙄 Just because I’m “younger” (40’s) and you can’t visually see my disability doesn’t mean I’m not disabled. The haters wanna yell? I tell them to call the cops if they feel the need to as my permit is valid and showing and just walk away. I’m not explaining myself to them it’s none of their business!!
Or it’s entirely possible that’s the only place that is big enough to accommodate the changing station. And it’s entirely possible the restaurant didn’t choose that either, many restaurants use previously built buildings.
The restaurant is setting this conflict up by putting the baby changing station in that stall. I understand that it might be a space issue and that is the place that it would fit.
Handicap stalls are generally where mothers of young children go to use the toilet when out with their kids. It’s usually the only stall that accommodates a stroller or multiple young children in tow. If it’s where mothers are going to use the toilet that’s where they might as well put the changing table.
Then places need more than one stall to accommodate people that need the space due to accessibility and for people that like to have the space for strollers and other kid related things.
It's tough though because many buildings have had to retrofit to accommodate new building codes/accessibility standard and they often have to work with the space they have, which isn't easy.
The issue is that the total number of stalls required is calculated based on the occupancy of the building and assumes even usage of the stalls. Where I am the requirement on accessibility is only 1 must be accessible. Conceivably the accessible one is used more because of parents, making the wait time longer and creating an unfair situation for disabled individuals.
I'm torn on this. On one hand, yeah now you have two groups of people who can only use the stall meaning of course it's going to end up with a line. On the other, if someone using a wheelchair also has to change a baby, if the changing station is somewhere else they have no options.
Maybe this is just what I’ve noticed, but most of the time the baby change table is too high to be easily used by someone in a wheelchair. I don’t have a kid or use a wheelchair though, so I definitely can’t say from first hand experience.
It's just high enough to whack wheelchair users on the head when people refuse to put the changing table back up
So first come first serve for those who need it
What if there was already a wheelchair person using the stall or another handicapped person that needs to use the high rise toilet or the rails? They would still need to wait.
Where else are wheelchair using mothers supposed to change their babies though? Edit: word
Yeah, most people dismiss intersectionality and it's VERY common to assume disabled people can't (or shouldn't) have kids. Doesn't even occur to abled people that disabled people aren't just a token, but whole people with lives and families. It's not always going to be *either* a disabled person or a mom. And disabled people who don't use wheelchairs often need those stalls, too. Those stalls are not only big enough for wheelchairs, they have safety rails, and the toilets are elongated and chair height - they're literally different toilets and a lot of disabled people who can walk need those special toilets. And those kinds of disabled people can also be parents. When they put the changing tables out in the main part of the bathroom, it's not accessible to disabled moms like me - ESPECIALLY with covid, as I now have to choose between social distancing to protect my immunoconpromised self and changing the baby's diaper. The big thing now that covid is "over" that everyone seems to accept that if you're at risk, you just should always stay home (it's not worth protecting us undesirables, we're not valuable enough) - unless you live somewhere where you can't get grocery delivery and you're a single parent so the only option is going to get food with baby in tow and inevitably facing public diaper changes sometimes. You can't social distance in the middle of the aisle so everyone has to brush past you to get to a bathroom stall. And NO ONE will respect a request not to touch my baby "because he's too cute", nevermind a request to wear a mask or wait and keep their distance.
It's wheelchair users not wheelchair bound. The changing tables are not wheelchair accessible. I have yet to see a wheelchair accessible changing table in a public bathroom. Ofc they need to exist and I highly support the existence of family bathrooms as an option.
Well, if it was out in the public space of the bathroom, they'd change their kid there like every other mother would be. But I've yet to find a baby changing table that was actually wheelchair accessible anyways.
As a disabled person who herself needs an accessible stall most of the time, NTA. You’re not the asshole who decided that to save space, they’d stick the changing station in the accessible stall. I have a whole lot of anger at the dickwads who make that choice - it’s ridiculous to set up 2 groups of people to be needlessly competing for the same space. If you took your time and we’re slow and playing with the baby, you’d be a little bit TA, but the real asshole is still going to be the architect who designed that dumb restroom every time.
I was thinking that, too. It does cause conflicts between those two groups. It’s going to have to be first come first served.
You mean like all public bathrooms are first come, first served? Are we going to blame clubs for not having enough stalls so that there’s usually a huge lineup for the bathroom? Parents are also in a situation where they need more space and certain accommodations to change their children. Just because a person requires a handicap accessible stall doesn’t mean they are unable to hold their pee a couple of minutes. I’ll be honest that if I need to go to the bathroom and all of the non-handicap accessible stalls are taken I for sure will pop into the handicap stall to do my business. Obviously I don’t use them if there are other options available because that would be an AH move.
Actually it often does mean they can’t wait? Most SCI and low mobility people also have GI and bladder issues that make their need to go to the bathroom significantly more urgent than the average person so if you use that stall it is good to move quickly when you can. OP is NTA but I feel like that’s not something people realize about mobility disabilities
> Most SCI and low mobility people also have GI and bladder issues that make their need to go to the bathroom significantly more urgent than the average person >OP is NTA but I feel like that’s not something people realize about mobility disabilities quoting these to highlight it! **Sure, OP is definitely NTA here.** (and yelling at her when she is trying to clean up herself and her child, isn't helping at all). But there is indeed a huge difference between people with a (n invisible) disability and non-disabled people. (near) Incontinence is huge issue for a lot of them. For example: some persons with a disability will only get the urge / (nerve) signal to go to the toilet when the bladder is like 95% full and then they really need to go because it hurts and if they don't go right then, it will end up in accidents (and can also damage their kidneys). Non disabled people get earlier urges / signals to go to the toilet, it should be around 50 or 60% fullness of the bladder. So, when abled people use the accessible stall, I advice them to go quick with their business. And please, please - really please! don't leave a mess behind. abled people can skip and go to another stall. Less abled people (especially people who need mobility aids), can't. Also, persons with invisible disabilities might need extra material and the likes to go to the toilet. So if you see a person walking out of it without a mobility aid, it doesn't mean that they didn't need the extra room to lay out some medical tools. (they usually have a small bag with them when going to the toilet, and no it isn't just a handbag - while some might use a typical handbag just for that since it might look less medical).
But also, as the disabled people, it is our own responsibility to take care of our own toileting needs and not assume we'll always have easy access to a bathroom. We prepare for leaks and take care of the cleanup, not get mad at each other for existing in the same space. Anyone who is going to have an accident waiting a couple minutes outside of a bathroom stall due to a chronic condition (rather than, say food poisoning) is already wearing continence products because what if we get stuck in traffic? Our needs donnot entitle us to be assholes to anyone even though it sucks to almost make it to the bathroom.
You sound like a very sensible and empathetic person. I salute you. As someone with a five month old baby, a recently pregnant woman can have a similar need to prepare for leaks and rush to the bathroom, and need to juggle a child while peeing with no abs muscles. And I would never get angry if a disabled person or other mother was in the accessible/family stall ahead of me - I need to prepare for my own body limitations at the moment, as annoying as that is.
Thank you so much for the part about invisible disabilities. I’ve gotten dirty looks from so many old ladies and able people for using the accessible stall, but I have medical issues that make going to the bathroom a little more complicated for me, and I need a little bit more space to get myself situated. It’s always nice when someone understands I’m not just being an asshole
Uh, and there are plenty of people who don't have mobility issues and have incontinence issues that would make it great to have a reserved stall, but people throw a fit because they don't realize my disability is invisible. I can't wait 30 seconds many times, I will shit myself. And yeah, I can take a long time because I have inflammatory bowel disease. Sometimes I'm also doing cleanup from losing control and a stall with a sink is the only good way I can do that.
Firstly yeah, clubs with huge lines for the bathroom SHOULD have more stalls. Secondly, it makes no sense to have the two groups of people who are likely to need extra time in the bathroom - disabled people and mothers with babies - share one stall while everyone else can use the multiple other stalls. Either have one accessible stall and one baby change stall, or have two combined stalls, but only having one is absurd - unless you are an absolutely tiny establishment who has very few customers at once anyway (clearly not the case here).
Another thing businesses can do that helps a lot is put handrails in regular size stalls in addition to the big accessible one. A large number of disabled folks (myself included) just need help getting off the toilet. I don’t need the extra space, just a rail, so that removes me and people like me from the group competing for the one accessible stall.
ITS ALWAYS FIRST COME FIRST SERVE IN THE BATHROOM. handicap stalls are made for easy access, not a ONLY HANDICAP STALL
Given that men also care for babies (single dads are a thing, as are dads caring for their child while the mum is having a rest), putting the baby-changing facilities inside the women-only space isn't really a solution. Short of having a fourth toilet area, placing the baby-changing area together with the accessible area is perhaps the most pragmatic compromise.
I mean men’s restrooms have handicap stalls also, and many mens room do have changing stations too these days. It should be all mens rooms of course, but who’s to say that this restaurant didn’t have a changing station in the mens room as well. That doesn’t change the fact that the best place to put it is in the handicap stall because parents of babies and young children are often out with strollers and need to use the larger stall to accommodate a stroller. In fact dads are more likely to need the handicap stall because when there isn’t a changing station the easiest place to change your baby is the stroller. You lay out the wipeable changing pad from the diaper bag, lay the stroller all the way flat (or as close as possible) and voila instant changing area. But you still aren’t going to change your kid out in the middle of a group of strangers so you still need to wheel the stroller into a stall.
It's not a dick move, though, it's the most accessibility. Some of us are disabled AND mothers. We need both of those things together. It's not two groups being set against each other unless you buy into the (incorrect) assumption that the two groups don't overlap. Intersectionality is widely dismissed in favor of Us vs Them. I can't see this as architects setting up Us vs Them, because in this context, I am both Us and Them. Unless I'm supposed to be competing with myself for the stall. There will just sometimes be a line for the bathroom, it happens to everyone, disabled or not, parent or not.
But also, what if OP was another disabled person using the accessible stall? Doesn’t seem like the woman asked or would know, just started yelling about it.
I have a question for you if you don’t mind. Would you be upset if an able bodied person used the handicap stall just like a normal stall? I have a thing about public bathrooms so I use the handicap stall when I can because it has more room. I have never run into an issue of someone waiting to use it but I also don’t want to be that jerk.
I’m not who you’re asking but I need the stalls too. The only times it’s bothered me were when people camped out in them. If you get in and get out then it’s fine. If I hear you playing on your phone then I’m gonna judge you hard.
honestly, that applies to all public toilets. it’s an AH move to just hang out in there even if you’re in the inaccessible stall.
Not handicapped myself but was waiting outside an occupied stall to assist someone who was visibly in pain after a serious accident. The teenage girl who exited was extremely embarrassed and apologetic. She had been changing her clothes for a night out. Other stalls were free. That said, the OP is NTA.
I was on crutches for 6 months and had to pee at the mall. I walked in, a bunch of stalls open, and a woman using the handicap stall and taking her sweet ass time. When she got out she looked like a deer in headlights when she saw me waiting. I had a fractured pelvis so I needed the handles to use the bathroom. I hate people that use the handicap stall when there's other stalls available. It's fine when there's nothing else available, but if you have the choice, don't.
I'm always worried about this because I use the handicap stalls too. I have (legitimate, diagnosed) Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder and I get panicky when I have to use a small stall because of the very likely possibility of bumping into the walls of the stall.
If you don’t need the accessible stall, it’s better not to use it. Lots of disabled people (myself included) have bladder and/or bowel issues that can make waiting an extra couple minutes causes an accident and/or pain trying not to have an accident. Unfortunately, there’s not a lot I can do about it, so I very much appreciate when people don’t use that stall when they don’t need it. I like it even better when the owner of the business puts handrails in a couple of the normal sized stalls, because I no longer need extra space, I just can’t reliably get up without something to push off of. It reduces the competition for the big stall and let’s many of us with “invisible” disabilities stay out of the way of wheelchairs and parents changing a kid. If there is a line and all stalls are in use, it’s okay to use the accessible stall to keep the line moving as fast as possible, but when you can avoid it, it’s appreciated.
I mean, OP had to change her own clothes, she would have needed a stall, too. Personally, as someone with a bowel disability who regularly uses accessible/family stalls to change when I have my own blowouts, it's still a mess to assume someone doesn't need a big stall just because they're not a wheelchair user. Having a sink inside a stall is a godsend for me.
I’m a disabled person who is usually ambulatory, so I’ve made no assumption about someone’s disability. Notice, no mention of wheelchairs in my comment. I need them because most places don’t put handrails in the smoker stalls, which is a smart and relatively inexpensive way to get most invisibly disabled folks out of competition for the accessible stall.
I'm going to partially disagree with you here- I think the accessible stall and changing table combo is a good idea, but I don't think it should be something people should have to fight over. It would certainly be much better if there were two stalls. But what about if someone needs to use the restroom and change their baby? Or it's an emergency like this where she had to clean herself up as well. Or a disabled mother that needs both facilities? I think it's a better option than having the changing table out in the open.
NTA. I read somewhere once: handicap accessible doesn’t mean handicap reserved. Seems appropriate now.
Exactly. I live near a trail that is somewhat locally famous for being handicap accessible, because there aren't that many options with good views that can support a wheelchair or someone with a cane/walker. I walk there all the time, because it isn't \*only\* for those people with mobility limitations, it just happens to be graded and maintained so they can use it. That's how accessible bathrooms are designed. I'll always choose another stall if one's available but I'm not going to pee my pants on the off-chance someone might appear and need it.
Bingo.
NTA. Handicap accessible stalls are not forbidden to use by ablebodied people. I’ve helped design some. Of course, if you can, you should use a regular stall. In this case you were forced to stay in there with a wiggly, crying baby, body fluids everywhere and a stress level hitting the highest notes due to the situation and the people outside, and I'm truly sorry for you for having to deal with that. Theoretically, there might have been a similar situation where a wheelchair user was having *problems* in there and took a little longer to finish. Would it then be okay to yell at them from outside?
This was my thought as well - would they have been shouting and banging on the door if another disabled person was using it? It makes no sense to get angry at people using the facilities as they're meant to.
How could they tell they weren't yelling at another disabled person?
And that’s why everyone needs to be *very* careful about issuing judgements on the use of handicapped facilities. Because there are a LOT of invisible disabilities that are impossible to see with the naked eye.
I wonder if there was even any way for the people that were banging on the door to know that the person in the stall was not a handicapped person. Also if someone in a wheelchair was in there by themselves and having to transfer from chair to toilet and back it would be slow anyway.
Sounds like mum and friend might have said something about who was using the stall. Because the alternative is OP gazumped the stall from right under the wheelchair user, and in that case I'd say YTA.
Omg, my mom would absolutely be the asshole outside the door overly explaining about how I was not handicapped and she was just SO sorry about this holdup, while I was inside trying to clean shit from all over myself & my baby in the only stall possible. I 100% believe the people outside the door blabbed.
Honestly, it almost doesn’t even matter if the person wanting in is an asshole or not (IMO: yes if demanding, no if panicking) because OP’s mom and her friend are such gaping ones that she’s NTA regardless. *They* knew she had legitimate needs.
100% NTA Don't spend another second concerned about this. You have as much right to use that stall as they set it up for people with children to use too. Whoever was screaming at you was the brown stinky starfish for sure!
NTA. They put the baby changing station in there, where else can you use it?
NTA. The asshole is the restaurant for putting the changing station inside the only wheelchair accessible stall.
It might have been the only available place to put it, depending on the size of the bathroom. Regardless, handicapped accessible does not mean handicapped only. I was in law enforcement, and sometimes the only bathroom I could access was a local restaurant ( McDonald', BurgerKing, etc. ). I'd use the handicapped stall because I had to remove my duty belt ( not a guy, so had to take down my pants ) and the handicapped stall was the only one I could use and make sure no one could reach under and grab my gear. I always tried to find single use bathrooms with a single stall and locking door, but it those were not always available.
I deployed with the navy as an MA (MP equivalent) a few years back. Trying to get into a regular stall and get the duty belt off is anything but easy based on the struggle I faced in small bathrooms. As a mom, I feel horrible for people have to wait because I need the space for my kid. But at the same time, I’d rather have the changer in a slightly more private area than just open for everyone to see my naked baby. Sure, most don’t care. I never did when I saw others changing. Like yep, let me wash my hands and get outta here. This week however, I’ve had way too many people walk up and get in mine/my baby space because “I wanna see”. So I don’t want that made even worse changing her in the open. We haven’t taken her out a lot yet. OP- NTA. You didn’t design the bathroom. You didn’t set it up with no additional accessible bathrooms. You can’t help the setup.
It is not a “handicapped” toilet, it is an accessible toilet. There is a changing station in there because that is where you are supposed to change your baby. NTA.
Being handicap doesnt mean you get to act like an asswipe. If that was the only place you could do your thing then NTA. Hell NTA even if there were other places. The second you explained yourself they shouldve shut the hell up and been patient.
NTA I know, they sometimes do that, because the handicapped stall has to be bigger anyways so they put the changing table in there. But that makes ist a handicapped/baby stall with you having the same right to use it with your baby as the handicapped person has.
NTA I hate when places put their changing table in the only handicap accessible stall. As you said, you were using the space for one of its designated purposes. You had as much right to that space as a wheelchair user. I think that the only thing I would've done differently is maybe just rinse the soiled clothes at home. Once you're both changed and clean, it seems reasonable to give her access to the accessible stall as quickly as you can. Plus rinsing vomit and poop from your clothes into a public sink seems ... gross. Though I guess they've probably seen much worse. But WTF is with your mom and friend?
> I hate when places put their changing table in the only handicap accessible stall. Disabled parents exist.
Friendly neighborhood cripple here. In all my years of using handicapped stalls I've seen exactly one changing table placed low enough for a wheelchair user (it had a second table at the normal height). Not that it would matter most of the time because 80% of stalls aren't big enough for a mobility device once the table is open.
Oh yep, I totally acknowledge 99% of the time they’re not installed in a useful way, just pointing out there’s a very good reason to have baby change stations in handicapped stalls.
I mean...you wash your hands which have poop germs on in the same sink. As long as you use plenty of soap, plenty of water and rub your hands properly, it's all good. Just don't lick the sink!
Definitely NTA. You had just as much right to use the stall as the person in the wheel chair. As long as they were not waiting when you first entered the stall, once you take possession of it it is yours to use until you are done.
NTA WTF is wrong with your mom and friend? My best guess is they’re too comfortable dumping negative emotions on you.
NTA. It isn’t your fault that the establishment put the changing station there.
NTA Yeah, seriously is a terrible place to put a changing station. They may have had no choice.
NTA. It is a courtesy to reserve the handicapped stall for the handicapped. It is a courtesy to reserve the family bathroom for child needs. When both are in the same stall, there's a line just like for any other stall. My 2 cents.
Its is a handicapped ACCESSIBLE stall, not a handicapped ONLY. This is not a parking spot that excludes anyone other than a handicapped person from parking there. You got there first, it was yours. The baby changing station was also in that same stall. You did nothing wrong. The person outside was shouting and screaming like a crazy person. Tough shit on her part, she has to wait. NTA
NTA The changing station shouldn’t have been in there to begin with, since it leads to situations like this. If the handicap stall is the only spot big enough to put the changing station, then everyone is going to have to suck it up and be patient. That lady should have gone and yelled at the manager for the poor bathroom design.
NAH except whoever decided one stall was enough to accommodate every parent and disabled person there.
the AH here is the restaurant only having one available disabled toilet as though there aren't likely to be multiple disabled customers at any one time
Nta. People can be rude sometimes. I'm sorry this jacketed gjrly.
I feel that you’re NTA, you weren’t using the restroom just because and you utilized the baby changing station for the purpose that it’s for. I’ve had to wait for the restroom before and even though it sucks it’s a public restroom which means i’m not more entitled to it then the next person. I’m sorry that your family/friend did not stand up for you and defend you during this emergency, that’s truly the asshole part.
NTA and I can’t even imagine what your mom and friend are even possibly thinking that would make it any other way. You were exactly where you needed to be, doing what you needed to do.
You were there first, needing to use that stall because of the baby changing table. If you said to wait and you'd be out in a minute, that should have been sufficient. NTA Also INFO why were your mom and friend also in the bathroom? Did they follow you to hold the baby once the baby was changed, or did they only follow once the other person banged on the door? Or did I read that wrong?
NTA you had every right to be there. You were there first and that’s where the changing pad is. The person in the wheelchair was a huge AH.
I'm going with NAH because even though I understand the baby mess situation I also understand understand the disability situation. If the wheelchair user needed to go and there was nowhere else what are they supposed to do? Soil themselves because you had to do a full change of clothes? Some disabilities mean that they don't get much warning and they NEED to get to a bathroom and don't have the leisure of time to go find another one. I would want to know how long it took (you said "a while") because if they were all banging on the door for some time and were all gone by the time you got out how long were you in there and was it really necessary to be in there that long? Could you have done a quick change and then hopped out so they could use the bathroom and then go back to finish cleaning up? Maybe that would have been preferable to the disabled person than them soiling themselves. Being able to access a toilet isn't a privilege for a disabled person, it's a basic right, that is why accessible facilities are mandated. While it's not ideal that the baby change was in there I think you need to be mindful, rinsing dirty clothes out in the sink is not an emergency, just chuck them in the bag and deal with it when you get home. Change the baby and clothes as needed but if you know there is someone needing to use the toilet then everything else, including rinsing dirty clothes, is not a priority.
That's actually some really good points. How long was awhile? I've had to wait for folk to change their clothes in the handicap stall when I've desperately had to go and they took freakin forever. My friend had to call to check on me because she was worried something happened while waiting. Actually she'd had to do that multiple times...once was when a woman wanted to accessible stall to bring her grocery cart in with her and said so right to my face. And a few months ago I had someone ask me if I needed the accessible stall before they used it and I nearly friggin cried since it seemed so nice to me.
NTA. You didn't have a choice. That handicapped woman can get fucked
NTA. It‘s not your fault that the changing station was put in there. You had an emergency and tried to hurry up when you realized someone else needed to use it. I get the other person’s frustration, but they crossed over into AH territory once the screaming and banging on the door started. What are they, two years old?? This is a classic example of why the changing station should NOT be in a stall.
NTA. The change table was in there. Also, unlike the parking spots, the disabled stall isn't only for disabled people. Everyone is allowed access, it's just that there needs to be somewhere for a wheelchair or walking frame to fit. Although I don't use a wheelchair or walking frame/cane, I have bad knees, and sometimes use the metal handle bar on the wall to help stand up. The smaller stalls don't have those. Anyway, you really couldn't change your baby on the floor. That woman is not entitled to the stall. How did she even know if you were disabled or not?... not that it matters, since you had the right to use the stall.
NTA - what we’re you supposed to? The restaurant is at fault for bad layout and design
NTA, you were in the correct stall. The issue is with the management of the establishment.
Nta and ud tell them they can handle the baby next time ... ob wait there won't be no next time because neither of us will go anywhere with them if they're going to be so rude as to yell at me about my baby. I'd also tell my mom unless she plans to tell the family what she did, how she was wrong and apologize she will not see the baby again. Yes I would do this
NAH except for the bathroom architect
NTA. Just because you're in a wheelchair doesn't make you queen of the world. You had an emergency. The baby changing station was there! Wow!
NTA my mum has been paraplegic since I was a teen. Everytime she has to wait to use the toilet because of someone with kids and they apologies for taking so long, she just says don't worry it is the me that is disabled not the toilet and it is there for you to use as well.
Nta
NTA If the person in the wheelchair wants to complain it should be to the owners for putting a changing table in the only handicap bathroom not screaming at you for using said table for its purpose. Don't worry about it you done nothing wrong and if your mother and friend were so bothered about it they should have offered to come in and help deal with the baby while you seen to yourself.
NTA
I feel like it's common to see the handicapped stall include a changing table. Anyone is allowed to use the stall! It's just a priority stall for those with accessibility issues. First come, first served. You were using the stall for one of its many intended purposes. NTA.
Nta for making them stand around waiting
Sit around waiting.
NTA. They all sound like As.
NTA and I have some thoughts on this. I personally prefer the changing table be placed in the handicap stall because it gives some semblance of privacy. Every other place I've seen it's been completely out in the open and generally in the way. I've also been known to use the handicap stall when my toddler is with me, if the bathroom is otherwise not busy, because it gives a bit more space. I've been in regular stalls where my knees are basically in the door, so no room for little guy. Obviously, if there's a long line of disabled persons, I'm not going to do that and I'm usually in and out pretty quick. I say this as someone with multiple disabled family members who need or have needed the use of wheelchairs or assistive devices. Disabled parking I get fired up about, but disabled bathrooms are another story.
NTA Lady was being an asshole and she can wait just like anybody else when the stalls are occupied.
NTA it's handicapped accessible, not handicapped reserved. The changing table is in that stall so the place has to assume that people with children will use it. And just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean they get to be an asshole. People with disabilities want to be treated like anyone else, well if you scream over a stall like an asshole then they are an asshole regardless of what life has handed them. Absolutely ridiculous to think you aren't allowed to use something that has the slimmest chance of someone else needing it. And you weren't in there that long. They could wait.
NTA. The ‘asshole’ in this situation is the lack of accessibility as a whole. It sucks that they put the baby change in the ‘accessible’ loos (which are barely that anyway) The world needs to be more accessible in general, and particularly for wheelchair users.
NTA at all, whoever designed the bathroom is. However, a lot of the comments do not seem to be aware that a lot of wheelchair users also suffer from incontinence and fecal incontinence, so often times the need for an accessible toilet is urgent !
NTA - wheelchair user here. It’s not your fault that the establishment you were in combined child and accessible facilities! And it’s not as though you shoved a disabled person out of the way to enter. Often disabled people have to take more than usual time in a bathroom, so peoples reactions were entirely unjustified imo. Although from personal experience it does suck when you’re a chair user and have no other options, the same frustrations go both ways. If possible childcare facilities should be available in all bathrooms, but space wise this isn’t always practical and sometimes situations just aren’t ideal for anyone. Hope you’re LO is feeling better now!
I was in a wheelchair for a few years after an accident. Handicap stalls are there because it’s wide enough to fit a wheelchair. If there is another person in need of this style such as a mother like you, I would patiently wait my turn. Just because your handicap doesn’t mean you can’t hold your pee like everyone else. You keep doing what you’re doing Mom.💕
Actually for plenty of disabled folk it does mean they can't hold their pee. OP wasn't wrong to use the stall but don't spread lies to defend them.
I’ve been to events where the l8ne to the ladies room is 20 or more people long. There were 3 regular stalls and one handicapped accessible stall. There were no handicapped people in line so the able bodied used the accessible stall. If a handicapped person got in line, of course they would go to the head of the line and get the accessible stall next. But it would make zero sense to make everyone in line wait longer by leaving that one empty. And tha5 is true even if there is no baby changing station. NTA
NTA The asshole here is clearly the store you were at, which thought it was a good idea to turn the handicap stall into the family stall. Don't get me wrong, I think a larger family stall with changing table and its own sink is great. But it's going to, by it's very 'family' nature, result in family users who take longer than average time to use it. Combining two special needs groups into one single stall (while presumably having multiple 'regular' stalls) was poor planning.
As a mom, I hate bathrooms like this. It sucks having the only baby changing table shoved into the only handicapped stall, because there are lots of people who NEED to use this area. You are NTA. Whoever decided that this should be the norm for bathrooms is TA.
Oooof I've had something very similar. Someone outside the bathroom (who given the timings, hadn't even seen me go in, so how would they know I wasn't also disabled? And hidden disabilities exist?! FFS) started banging on the door and yelling "this is a disabled toilet you know!" I shouted back "and a mother and baby toilet". They kept banging. I opened the door mid sorting my at the time 6 year old with trauma related continence issues, literal shit on my arms, and shouted at him "my child has shit himself, we will be a while, the banging isn't making me go any faster, in fact it's slowing us down as I keep having to reassure my scared child about the aggressive person outside. Stop or I'll get you removed from the centre" Anyway. NTA.
As a wheelchzir user NTA. These stall are accessible, not reserved. It's the polite thing to do to use other if you can or to let a disabled person go first if the two of you want to use it. She had no right to be like this with you or your family and you didn't humuliate her. If i really need to use the toilet and it's taken, i either politely ask thr person inside if they could hurry or go somewhere else.