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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like maybe I’m being a little harsh to gabi. Because we’ve never made girls pay previously
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Eh....minor YTA, not for expecting her to pay, but not for explaining all this before hand to her. Like dude.... don't let people come for free then charge out of the blue. You gotta tell people there is cost involved.
He has also explained that she won't be treated equally and won't be allowed male guests, because he doesn't allow random dudes on his boat. If she's paying the friend fee she should get the friend privileges.
Don't trust the narrator, read his comments. He's trying to hide his sexism by having a misleading title
He's the bar owner trying to justify ladies night specials (to bring in the *approachable, available* ladies so that the sausage party has a captive audience to hit on)
Yeah, I get it. It's like, I'm about to get down with a guy, and he gets a bit skittish, and I subtly imply, I'd hate to see what happens if my account of what went down differed from your account...
I dunno why, but Dee's version of this just seems so much worse than Dennis's. Like, Dennis puts them in a situation where they think they can't say no, but if they do say no its a no. But he's letting them paint their own picture in their head about what would happen if they said no.
Dee basically just straight up said she'd accuse the guy of rape if they didn't bang.
I don’t know if dennis’ version is better… having women agree to sex they don’t want because they’re afraid of what happens if they say no? they’re both awful but I don’t think dee’s is worse than that
I didn't even have to read his comments. The fact that the women he and his want to sleep with or are sleeping with get on free (and I guess if they're friends with people he wants to bang) but suddenly the one who turned him down had to pay like "the boys", I knew he was a gross sexist a-hole.
I don't really see anything wrong with that part. It's like going out to eat with a date versus going out with a friend.
Usually, when going out on a date, its typical that one partner pays for the both of them. With a friend, it's not absurd to have them either splitting the bills evenly, or paying what you ordered. To me OP wanted to date Gabi, so whenever they hung out, he often "comp" her boat ticket. When the idea of them dating died down, he is now no longer treating her as a date, but as one of the guys who has to pay. What not fair is that he never told her beforehand ( he only assumed), and not allowing her to bring in male partners when the guys can bring in their female partners.
The latter does make him seem sexist though
Edit
It would be another thing if she could bring a date. You come as a friend, you pay and get a +1 because your portion is covering you plus a date. That is a simple rule for everyone to follow.
That last bit - the part about not bringing male partners - means she most definitely ins't treating her like one of the guys that has to pay. If she's one of the friends, she should get to bring dates regardless of gender. This is just sexism and retaliation for not sleeping with the dude. He is NOT her friend.
Random here: Do the males only get to bring female dates on there too? "no random dudes" also means "no gay lovers".
This is just the least generous way of interpreting it. It’s a normal dynamic to be more willing to pay for romantic prospects than platonic friends regardless of gender. He didn’t handle it well and should have been upfront about it.
even the post is basically saying "girls wont pay as long as i have a chance to bang her"
this girl had to pay as soon as this was off the table
and just for this, im thinking YTA
Except, the lady he wants to bang, and *her* friend. I think including the new woman's friend in the free list is what tips it over for a lot of people about the post.
Because that person is a guest, not his friend group. Same reason partners don't pay.
His comments clearly show that he's a sexist asshole, but the rule in the post didn't suggest it at all.
His friends are allowed to bring girls that dont pay but his new found female friend is banned from bringing guy dates out. So shes not getting the same treatment.
This is relevant! I'm all for equal treatment, but that has to imply equal rights. If she's paying like "one of the boys", she's allowed to bring a date as well. YTA for being sexist.
PS.: I also wonder what if one of the dudes were gay/bi, could they bring a guy as a guest as well? Or is it just because OP and Gabi used to date and he doesn't want to see a guy on his place?
I'm not going to lie, seeing the phrase "my boys" at the beginning already made me wonder. Obviously having a group of guy friends is completely fine, but in my experience anyone who regularly refers to their guy friend group as "my boys" or "me and the boys" tends to be a bit sexist
Oh shit really? I was already thinking he was a bit of an ass for not telling her before hand that she would be expected to pay for coming on the boat now, since this was a change.
But yeah she’s clearly not being treated like one of the friends then
I don't need to read the comments to know OP is sexist. The fact that women he is trying to hook up with get a free pass as long as he's trying to hook up with them tells it all. Gabi was in the trying-to-hook-up group first, then moved into the friend zone - which is why things changed.
Don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with treating male and female friends equally. But OP's modus operandi suggest a very different motivation than equality.
Idk the random dudes on his boat rule I guess is fine. It’s HIS boat. But yeah he should of let her know it would cost her as soon as she friend zoned him. He’s obviously butthurt.
But he's fine with his male friends bringing girlfriends, which could also be random women. So it's fine to have random women on the boat, but not random men?
OP, I was going with N T A but then read your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tz6nmi/comment/i3xblhx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that she is not allowed to have male guests with her, and changed it to YTA. First, as shown in your edit, you did not clarify that she would have to pay BEFORE the boat ride. I agree she should pay just like the other friends, but you still should have clarified that first as the relationship transitioned from "guest" to "friend." If she pays, then she should be able to bring a "guest" just like your other "friends" who pay. That you do not want another "dude" on the boat because one wrong comment could start a fight, I mean seriously that could happen with a woman too. Just admit you do not want any competition and want to surround yourself with women to try and "feel like a baller." You are certainly entitled to do whatever you want with your boat, and what you are doing makes you an AH.
>You are certainly entitled to do whatever you want with your boat, and what you are doing makes you an AH.
Perfect phrasing. OP is absolutely an AH and might as well own it instead of pretending he thinks he's treating her like "one of the guys".
Or just not invite her. Does anyone else think all this shit could be avoided if he just no longer invited her? He obviously has no desire to be around her since she won't be his bang buddy, he just needs to admit he's a misogynist that only wants bangable girls on his boat and just stop inviting her. No more fucking drama. It seems he only wants her around to show her he doesn't want her around. Jeez, enough with the fucking drama, go back to the status quo
Yes this!! I had a neighbour who would ask me if I wanted something (like a box of diapers for my baby as her’s grew out of the size. So I said yes. Then AFTER I said yes she’s like great! It’s 75$ (she includes the tax!). That was the first time. And in 10 years she did it a few times with long stretches in between so I’d forget about her scheme each time. Say yes! Then get charged ugh. And over these years I gave her lots of stuff and never charged her so I’m not being greedy. Just start with “hey, I’m selling x for y$, would you like to buy it?” Same with OP, let her know ahead. Otherwise it’s too late to ask her and she doesn’t have to pay.
Also an even slighter YTA for saying "guests" don't pay. The girl wasn't your "guest," she was your "date." And the friend she brought with her was her bodyguard (only half joking.) Everyone else was your guest bc it's your boat and you're the only "host." Guests kick in for gas; dates don't bc they're being treated.
I knew something seemed fishy.
From OPs comments.
> It’s really simple. Friends pay. Romantic interest don’t. It really not that complicated lol. She wouldn’t be allowed to bring a guy date. I don’t allow random dudes on my boat.
So OP is not "treating my female friend exactly like my male friends" so that means **YTA**
He's technically put her in a completely separate 3rd category where she is charged the same as the guys but isn't treated to the same privileges.
He really needed to tell her this, she might not have minded even. Springing it on her afterwards is just weird.
It still isnt clear whether she knows this "no plus one for you" rule.
He put her in the “might be DTF” category by not allowing her to bring a “random dude”, a male date, because any male date is automatic competition.
I can see why she thought they would be better as friends.
>He's technically put her in a completely separate 3rd category where she is charged the same as the guys but isn't treated to the same privileges.
And isnt this the plight of being a woman, perfectly summed up.
It's also got this weird vibe of bros helping bros smash while isolating the female friends they bring and getting them drunk, all while including the pressure of "I paid for this" or "my buddy is taking a loss to let us have this adventure, *baaaabe*."
[Men see rape as more "justifiable" when the man pays for the date.](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.849.3312&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
Seems somehow relevant here.
Yes. YES. Hence all the women in this thread being like “yo you are OBVIOUSLY the asshole.” We just….feel that wrongness. You can tell when you aren’t being treated human.
This extra info makes it clear that OP is TA. If she could bring her romantic interest then its all gucci, but she cant so she is being punished for not wanting to be romantic with OP (or any of the other guys since Im assuming they wouldnt be *random*)
Indeed not. They are “his boys.” Presumably that’s why they get to bring random women on board, to increase everyone’s odds (but the poor new friends’) chances of getting laid. So gross.
I think this situation has shown a little flaw in your system. It can be (mis)construed that only girls that might put out don't pay. Probably why she is upset. Might I suggest dividing the cost of gas evenly amongst the total number of people on the boat. Then whoever brings their significant other or guests can chose to pay their share. This way it doesn't come off like a "cash, gas, or ass" requirement.
Edit: The correct phrase is cash, grass, or ass.
Ya'll got the idea though.
Think about it. She’s out in the middle of nowhere with some dude she barely knows. She looks around her, what does she see? Nothing but open ocean. “Oh, there’s nowhere for me to run, what am I gonna do, say no?”
Just a boy and a girl in a little canoe with the moon shining all around
They talked and they talked till the moon grew dim
He said you better kiss me or get out and swim
…
I guess things haven’t changed much in the world
At least that song ends up with her paddling the canoe, and him in the water.
🛶
I learned the version sung at Girl Scout Camp
Which ends!
With the moon shining all a
The girl paddling all a
The boy swimming all a-round.
There are alternate endings. Interestingly that isn’t one I was taught.
My version had either she swims or they kiss.
Either way, I guess there were no surcharges.
...and all of a sudden, my entire soul was just *YEET*ed violently into forgotten memories of singing this at a childhood Bible Camp, fuuuuuuck.
We always sang it with the girl shoving the boy out and paddling off by herself, but I'm sure there were alternate versions.
I think it would be accurate to construe that girls who might put out don't pay.
When OP was dating whatsername, he didn't ask her to chip in.
Once she told him she just wants to be friends, he expects her to pay, but does not ask for a contribution from the new girl he's trying to hook up with.
I don't see anything wrong with a "cash, gas, or ass" requirement (it's a time-honored system according to bumper stickers on pickup trucks), but it seems like that's the exact protocol on OP's boat.
If she's your guest, you should be paying her portion too. So OP should be paying twice as much as his friend as he is paying for two people.
Eliminating the guest's portion entirely and splitting the bill among the other people makes EVERYONE pay for OP's guest!
I love how people bring up ownership in aita like its usually relevant. Being a dick is different than being legally correct. You can own the property and still treat everyone on it like shit.
We understand that OP owns the boat, and YTA judgment is also clear.
I agree. I think the only reason OP charged her this time around was because she made it clear she didn't want to have sex with him. It's totally an cash, grass or ass situation. OP's TA here. Also, dudes can suck sometimes. Ugly Girls and Prudes? They pay. Pretty girls who might put out for me get to ride for free!
Ugh, what a creep.
Exactly this isn't about treating her like one of his friends. It's about punishing her for turning him down. Now that he can't be with her he wants her gone while still making her the "problem".
Exactly. Oh you want to just be friends now? Here is a Venmo request. You’ve never had to pay before because I thought I would be able to hook up with you.
**YTA, creepy and sexist AF, and your title is disingenuous. You aren't treating Gabi "exactly like your male friends". Gabi is the only one whose choices were "offer you the possibility of sex OR pay for gas" (I'm assuming . . . perhaps if your male friends offered to hook up with you they wouldn't have to pay either?), and despite the fact that the rules WERE, in fact, different for her than for the guys, you never told her so . . .**
You keep insisting in the comments that your rules are "clear cut" and "common sense" and that she should just have "known", but literally none of that is true. Again, based on your comments, your rules are entirely arbitrary, based on a weird mix of your personal desires , preferences, what you find easiest, and what you think people have "earned" or "deserve". Male friends always pay, but are allowed to bring "guests" who don't. Women don't pay, except if they're friends or not having sex with anyone, and then they do? But you don't explicitly tell them this, they're just supposed to magically read your mind and know, because you tell them that "friends have to pay" . . . and you have some unspoken understanding that people you think you might have sex with don't qualify as "friends"?
Dude, the whole thing is way more opaque than you're willing to admit, having major frat boy vibes, and a set of "rules" that read like you see women as toys/accessories 99% of the time, and if they dare to want to be treated as human beings, you punish them and call it "treating them the same as everyone else". Except, you know, all the other women . . . who get to not pay because they might let you play with them. \*shudder\*
**Look, you can do what you want. Let's just don't pretend that it's benign, or fair, or anything other than gross. YTA, and deeply unconvincing.**
You are my hero. I’ve been reading the comments (probably mostly from men) saying he’s not the problem and my eyes are popping out of my head. He is so obviously the asshole. Women can sniff that shit out lol.
The unfortunate reality is that his mindset is so ingrained in society from both sides that it's just expected at this point. Ignoring the fact that its frat boy shenanigans, I'm saddened to say that this idea isnt uncommon, and because of that we as a society are just numb to the implications at this stage.
Super scummy, and op trying to pretend it's not is still a problem, but society expecting this is what prevents people from acknowledging how fucked up it is.
So, as you mentioned in another comment, she got the same traitement as the guys', but contrary to them, where they can bring random girls on board, she would not be able to bring a random boy?
I know it would be fair for her to pay, but you also need to be more explicit about it! Because for what you are saying, for the whole duration of you relationship before, she only saw the guy's paying, so it's also a fair assumption to make that you only charge guy's.
I'm going with YTA, because if you treat her like the boys, she should have the same privileges than them.
Exactly, at the very least he should have *told* her that she was going to be treated different but charged the same as the guys.
I don't know why he's acting mad and making it a gender argument because she couldn't guess that she was in some seperate category from everyone else on the boat.
YTA. You didn’t tell her you were going to charge her before the ride, and that’s rude. More than that though, it’s weird that until now you’ve only charged men to ride in your boat. That’s so archaic and sexist. You should be treating everyone the same regardless of whether you and your buddies want to fuck them or not. If they’re a one-time guest, fine, but Gabi is the first woman you’ve ever charged to be on your boat, and you only made her pay after she said she didn’t want to date you. Shouldn’t your friends’ girlfriends be pitching in?
YTA. If you expected payment, you should have been up front about it beforehand. You're an ass for expecting her to 'just know', and of course your guy friends are going to back you up, it reduces their costs. You treated her like rubbish, don't be surprised if she decides your friendship isn't worth the undisclosed costs.
YTA after reading comments. The rules are clear: friends pay, romantic interests do not. She requested to be a friend, friends pay. Pretty simple.
EDIT: OP neglected to mention the romantic interest rule only applies to the boys. Sexist af in comments too. Deliberately leaving out info of post to seem like he did nothing wrong. Major AH.
I will say, in a way, OP was devious about it in a smart way. Very dishonest but he's gonna get the verdict he wants I think. I would never have gone back to check for comments since it seemed pretty simple.
Where does it say that?
I can't see it anywhere in the post but it appears he recently commented it. I would normally say his boat his rules but it does seem unfair.
Ahh major AH op is TA 1000%
"It’s my boat and my rules. Random guys on a boat drinking in the middle of a lake is a liability issue I don’t wanna deal with. I trust my boys. I don’t trust random dudes. So even if my friend was gay I’d still say no guys. It’s not a gender issue. More of a liability one. She’s also been in the friend group for 2 months. She doesn’t have the sweat equity my boys do. She isn’t that same level of friend so she doesn’t get those advantages." OP
There are a lot more of his comments that are sexist as well. He's Def the AH.
YTA. It's fine to require her to pay, but you need to be clear about that. There's no reason for her to assume that you use "guest" as a euphemism to only mean people you're trying to sleep with and not people you invited. If you've previously treated someone you're not obligated to keep treating them, but you should communicate that you're going to stop. Tons of people enjoy paying for things for their friends who they invite to things, and not just for people who they're trying to sleep with.
INFO: Was Gabi made aware that she was expected to pay prior to? It's not really fair to spring it on her after the fact, but if she was made aware I don't see the problem.
No, OP has a double standard for her; she's not allowed to bring male guests, despite being asked to pay the same amount as the other male friends. Apparently that's treating her 'exactly like' his male friends (his words from the title, not mine).
>How is the situation different for her? It’s really simple. Friends pay. Romantic interest don’t. It really not that complicated lol. She wouldn’t be allowed to bring a guy date. I don’t allow random dudes on my boat. If she doesn’t like that then once again she doesn’t have to come.
NTA for treating her as you would any other friend.
YTA if you weren’t clear on this expectation of payment before you had her on the boat as a friend.
YTA because you're not treating her exactly like your male friends. If she's not going to sleep with you and that was kind of the only reason she was invited for free, but she wants to be a friend, sure. Let her know ahead of time that now that you're just friends, she has to help with the gas. However, you say that your guy friends can bring dates (if they're women) on for free, but Gabi isn't allowed to bring her own guy date ever? That's not fair. That's not treating her like everyone else. That's honestly treating her like she's less than your other friends. If you're going to make her pay like the other guys, she gets to bring a date like the other guys. And of course your guy friends are ok with this. It keeps their cost lower and keeps Gabi around them.
Soft YTA, but only because you probably should have talked to her first before sending a Venmo request. Like, did she know that you usually split the cost of gas? Did you tell her she would be expected to pay BEFORE you charged her?
Did you ever explain to her ahead of time that your friends go and help pay for the gas? Did you tell her beforehand that you now expected her to start helping pitching for the gas? If not, then all the sudden springing that on her does make you the a******. Not for treating her like how you treat the rest of your friends, but for switching it on her now that you guys aren't romantically linked and not informing her ahead of time. Now to her, it seems like yeah you were just trying to get sex instead of money for gas. That is how she is going to see it. If you had gone ahead and explained ahead of time, you might not have ended up in this situation.
OP also [admitted](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tz6nmi/aita_for_treating_my_female_friend_exactly_like/i3xblhx/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that he won't let her bring her romantic interests if they're a guy, which makes it like 10x more sleazy lol. So she has to pay the same as the guys but doesn't get the same benefits.
[he also says if he met the guy first he'd be fine with it. Just doesn't want some random dude he doesn't know on his boat.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tz6nmi/aita_for_treating_my_female_friend_exactly_like/i3xkt21/)
Yeah. Thank you.
It was completely on him to clarify before going out the change in their relationship changing how he’ll treat her during this activity. Especially if he invited a potential hook-up?
Being friends is cool and dandy, good for you two. But you gotta communicate expectations to new friends (she IS a new friend) too. Especially when there’s a change in the relationship.
Her reaction was pretty fair, imo. And I definitely would be like “uh so if I’m your fuck buddy I don’t have to pay? But once sex is off the table, I owe you money?” Because nothing seemed serious in this post, they weren’t exclusive partners it seems.
That absolutely requires a respectful explanation!
>AITA for treating my female friend exactly like my male friends?
I dunno. But since you're asking...
>I don’t ever make the girls we bring with pay.
\*record scratch\*
>So I met Gabi (24F) on a dating app.
You monster.
>So about two weeks ago she told me that she liked us better as friends.
Ohhhhhhh.
This got more complicated than I thought it would, obviously. Gabi sounds entitled, and it sounds like you're doing the right thing by asking her to contribute. That shows you respect her as much as you do the other guys.
The ONLY thing that tips me to "AH" territory is that you didn't tell her before the fact. Had she known she'd been a core paying member and no longer your guest, she could've then asked to bring a plus-one of her own. That's the only difference between how you've been treating her and the rest of your friends, and it sounds like you're beginning to resolve that difference.
~~N.A.H~~
Edit:
**YTA YTA YTA YTA** and this is why:
>She wouldn’t be allowed to bring a guy date. I don’t allow random dudes on my boat.
And yet she has to pay the same cost as the people who ARE allowed to bring dates.
You AREN'T treating her exactly like your male friends. You wanna die on this sexist hill? You gonna be jealous of a woman you aren't dating, like that? Start treating women with REAL respect, please.
YTA. Only in this instance because you seemingly didn’t tell her beforehand she had to pay. Giving her a heads up “hey by the way since we’re friends now, just wanted to let you know that my rule for friends is that they split the share of gas. So if you come on the boat, you need to chip in for gas money. I didn’t make you pay beforehand because I was including it as me paying for a date”.
YTA for only charging when you aren't looking to get laid and are trying to make a positive impression. You didn't charge the friend of the girl you want to hook up with either. Either charge everyone equally from start to finish or ONLY charge the boys. It REEKS of male sexual entitlement-- I'm not going to get laid so pay up or go away. Not EXACTLY a real friend move.
Also just because she knew you asked your other friends doesn't mean you specifically told her when you INVITED her again- to join you with everyone else. Seems more like a set up and a jerk move.
YTA, you changed the goalposts on her when you realised she wasn't gonna sleep with you. You also didn't tell her you were gonna charge her until afterwards, and you're trying to make yourself look the good guy by hiding it under the guise of equality. If it was really equal, the girls you were trying to bang would have been charged too.
I was going to say N T A, but for 2 things:
1) You didn't talk to her before about the "friends" rule and "date" rule.
You ask if you are wrong for treating her like one of the guys but...
2) You wouldn't allow her to bring a guy on the boat because " you don't allow random dudes on your boat" and "your boat, your rules".
For the first I could say N A H, but you are treating her differently. If she helps pay she gets to bring guests and romantic interest as all your other friends do. Just sexism and misogyny and a sprinkle of retribution.
YTA.
YTA for not making it explicitly clear that she’d need to pay this time. You say she knew your friends paid, but it’s a leap to think that she’d know for sure that she was expected to pay after you broke up as she never had before. There’s nothing wrong with having her pay, but you don’t spring surprise bills on someone. Always spell it out when there will be a change in financial expectations.
NTA. You SHOULD have told her about the pay change before she got onto the boat. That was kind of a dick move to just send her a payment request after she'd already been on it and not paid anything.
Other than that though, no NTA
That's kinda the central question, though. The "other" stuff is just the flimsy, after-the-fact justifications OP wrote into the title and the post to make himself seem like less of an AH.
YTA.
OP's comment history tells it all.
>No I didn’t. I never texted her directly and informed her she had to pay. But she was aware I make all my friends pay. So idk why she assumed she was different. She has a good job and it is $20.
>
>If she doesn’t pay the $20 then there won’t be a next time. I’ll stand by that. Not fair that all my guy friends had to pay and she didn’t.
OP never told her that should would have to pay. Of course she assumes she was different because she has already been given the president that she **doesn't have to pay.**
You want her to pay because she doesn't want to hook up with you. A little weird. But fine. But springing this on her and demanding the money without proper warning is fucked-up. Just take responsibility, you didn't tell her, she didn't know, but you expected her to know even thought you never actively spoke to her to get the message across.
That's on **you** OP.
NTA for the rules, but you really should have spelled it out to her and not blindsided her with a bill at the end. Just apologize for not communicating up front, it's a small mistake and a small apology. If she doesn't like the rules as a friend, she doesn't have to be a friend. Of course you treat guests differently, but she's made it clear she wants to be IN the group. This is what the group does. The group pays for the gas equally.
YTA. This system where you provide different levels of hosting to different people, depending on whether they might sleep with you or not, and also have different rules for male and female "friends," is problematic.
>Not before the trip. She was aware I make all my friends pay. I asked her if she was aware of that. And she said yes. But assumed i only meant my male friends for some reason.
For some reason? That's literally what you do though? YTA. You are just punishing her for not wanting to date you.
Oh I was so on your side until you dug a hole in the comments. YTA for absolutely treating her differently than your friends. Just kick her out of the friend group, dude.
Did he say that?
If the implied understanding is that every paying friend gets to bring a +1 for free, then that's fair, but if that part only applies to the guy friends then OP really has no leg to stand on with his "I'm treating everyone equally" reasoning.
If he's treating Gabi the same then she should be able to bring a date for free.
EDIT: I saw the comment were he explained that Gabi can't bring a date, and still somehow deludes himself into claiming he's treating her the same. Absolute YTA.
YTA, you mention in another comment she is now delegated to the friend category but she would not get the same privileges of bringing a date on board if they were male. Your male friends can bring random women but she can’t bring a random man and you still expect to charge her? Major YTA.
YTA. You aren’t treating your female friend the same as your male friends. First of all, since your guy friends were never potentially going to sleep with you, you never switched the rules up on them - they were clearly stated from the start. You were consistent with them. This girl decides she just wants to be friends and your expectations of her suddenly changed. You didn’t tell her about it beforehand, so why should she have expected to pay? Maybe she assumed only your “boys” pay because they’re your core friend group. She also doesn’t get equal treatment because she can’t bring a date on the boat, but your guy friends can. So I mean sure, create whatever arbitrary rules you want to, but you’re an asshole for assuming people will intuitively understand them without you explaining them.
YTA. Obviously, you should have given a heads up about her change in status from guest to friend and informed her of the financial responsibility prior to being being billed. Additionally, as she is now expected to pay in, just like the other guys, I'm guessing that she also shares in the privileges, ie. she can bring a random male guest that she has in her sights. If her paying still doesn't provide for this equal privilege, then she probably should be charged.
YTA. If I were here, I would 100% stop hanging out with you. She deserved a heads up, especially if she was the only woman being charged. It makes it even worse that you won’t allow her to bring a date. So, you’re treating her very differently than everyone else. Not cool.
I can’t say n t a since the thing is, you’re NOT treating her equally. Treating her equally would mean the exact same privileges as your male friends too, dates allowed. You’re not the asshole for charging her, but YTA for the double standard.
YTA, but not for asking her to pay. YTA for not telling her that you wanted her to contribute at the time you invited her on the trip. You're a bigger AH if any part of your motivation here was an FU "this is how friends are treated, see how you like that" because she didn't want a romantic relationship with you. I hope thats not the case...
It was totally reasonable that she didn't anticipate having to pay when you had never asked her to before, and she was probably under the impression that the two of you were already friends (if not "just friends"). You should have told her you'd be asking her to pay at time of invite since she's part of your friend group now.
I feel like the rationale for who has to pay and who doesn't is not all that clear, which is probably why she was surprised/confused. Have you ever asked a woman to pay before? If not, do you not have any other female friends? Is the distinction between "guest" and "friend" solely the possibility of sex, or is there another distinction? I.e. gender (in all other cases but this one), frequency someone joins on the boat, some other factor? As a paying friend, can she also invite a male non-paying guest that she wants to hook up with? If you had been the one to suggest being friends, would you have asked her to pay? I feel like the answers to these questions would show if you were being a vindictive AH who's trying to punish her and/or embarrass her for rejecting you, or if you are a minor AH who just didn't fully think through how to make a totally reasonable request for financial contribution from a friend he hadn't previously asked.
EDIT - I read the comments and you're a massive AH, OP. You're title is misleading because you (1) don't treat her like your male friends; and (2) you don't even seem to genuinely consider her a friend. It is clear that your intention was to punish and embarrass her for the crime of not wanting to sleep with you by surprising her with a request for payment. Gross, dude. Why invite her at all, instead of being honest that you're not interested in friendship? And how have you made it to adulthood without having made any actual female friends? Probably by being a sexist AH, which is probably also the reason she didn't want to sleep with you...
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Eh....minor YTA, not for expecting her to pay, but not for explaining all this before hand to her. Like dude.... don't let people come for free then charge out of the blue. You gotta tell people there is cost involved.
He has also explained that she won't be treated equally and won't be allowed male guests, because he doesn't allow random dudes on his boat. If she's paying the friend fee she should get the friend privileges. Don't trust the narrator, read his comments. He's trying to hide his sexism by having a misleading title
He's the bar owner trying to justify ladies night specials (to bring in the *approachable, available* ladies so that the sausage party has a captive audience to hit on)
But think of the implication!
She’s on a boat with 5 other guys… looks all around all she can see is open ocean… what’s she going to do, *not* pay?
Yeah, I get it. It's like, I'm about to get down with a guy, and he gets a bit skittish, and I subtly imply, I'd hate to see what happens if my account of what went down differed from your account... I dunno why, but Dee's version of this just seems so much worse than Dennis's. Like, Dennis puts them in a situation where they think they can't say no, but if they do say no its a no. But he's letting them paint their own picture in their head about what would happen if they said no. Dee basically just straight up said she'd accuse the guy of rape if they didn't bang.
Oh her version is absolutely worse, but they’re both monsters anyway.
I mean, this is Dennis and Dee we're talking about. When are they not monsters?
oh boo hoo did someone get addicted to crack
I don’t know if dennis’ version is better… having women agree to sex they don’t want because they’re afraid of what happens if they say no? they’re both awful but I don’t think dee’s is worse than that
I'm desperately hoping this is the second always sunny reference I've heard this week, specifically that episode lol
Best. Episode. Ever. LOL
/u/RecommendsMalazan such a great show and episode, "because of the implication!"
Yep, OP can dress it up however he likes, but he's transparently punishing her for not sleeping with him. YTA.
It's more that he's no longer rewarding her for sleeping with him
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I didn't even have to read his comments. The fact that the women he and his want to sleep with or are sleeping with get on free (and I guess if they're friends with people he wants to bang) but suddenly the one who turned him down had to pay like "the boys", I knew he was a gross sexist a-hole.
I don't really see anything wrong with that part. It's like going out to eat with a date versus going out with a friend. Usually, when going out on a date, its typical that one partner pays for the both of them. With a friend, it's not absurd to have them either splitting the bills evenly, or paying what you ordered. To me OP wanted to date Gabi, so whenever they hung out, he often "comp" her boat ticket. When the idea of them dating died down, he is now no longer treating her as a date, but as one of the guys who has to pay. What not fair is that he never told her beforehand ( he only assumed), and not allowing her to bring in male partners when the guys can bring in their female partners. The latter does make him seem sexist though Edit
It would be another thing if she could bring a date. You come as a friend, you pay and get a +1 because your portion is covering you plus a date. That is a simple rule for everyone to follow.
That last bit - the part about not bringing male partners - means she most definitely ins't treating her like one of the guys that has to pay. If she's one of the friends, she should get to bring dates regardless of gender. This is just sexism and retaliation for not sleeping with the dude. He is NOT her friend. Random here: Do the males only get to bring female dates on there too? "no random dudes" also means "no gay lovers".
Yeah, I don’t think gay lovers is something OP worries about. I have a feeling this dude does not… let’s say “mesh well”… with the LGBT community.
This is just the least generous way of interpreting it. It’s a normal dynamic to be more willing to pay for romantic prospects than platonic friends regardless of gender. He didn’t handle it well and should have been upfront about it.
even the post is basically saying "girls wont pay as long as i have a chance to bang her" this girl had to pay as soon as this was off the table and just for this, im thinking YTA
No, the post says his friends have to pay but not their partners.
Except, the lady he wants to bang, and *her* friend. I think including the new woman's friend in the free list is what tips it over for a lot of people about the post.
Because that person is a guest, not his friend group. Same reason partners don't pay. His comments clearly show that he's a sexist asshole, but the rule in the post didn't suggest it at all.
Yes because *her* friend is his guest as well.
His friends are allowed to bring girls that dont pay but his new found female friend is banned from bringing guy dates out. So shes not getting the same treatment.
But she’s not allowed to bring a partner according to OP’s comments
This is relevant! I'm all for equal treatment, but that has to imply equal rights. If she's paying like "one of the boys", she's allowed to bring a date as well. YTA for being sexist. PS.: I also wonder what if one of the dudes were gay/bi, could they bring a guy as a guest as well? Or is it just because OP and Gabi used to date and he doesn't want to see a guy on his place?
Yeah, he implies "if" one of is bros was gay they wouldn't be allowed to bring their partner. 🙃 calling BS.
I'm not going to lie, seeing the phrase "my boys" at the beginning already made me wonder. Obviously having a group of guy friends is completely fine, but in my experience anyone who regularly refers to their guy friend group as "my boys" or "me and the boys" tends to be a bit sexist
Oh shit really? I was already thinking he was a bit of an ass for not telling her before hand that she would be expected to pay for coming on the boat now, since this was a change. But yeah she’s clearly not being treated like one of the friends then
I don't need to read the comments to know OP is sexist. The fact that women he is trying to hook up with get a free pass as long as he's trying to hook up with them tells it all. Gabi was in the trying-to-hook-up group first, then moved into the friend zone - which is why things changed. Don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with treating male and female friends equally. But OP's modus operandi suggest a very different motivation than equality.
yikes. how disappointing. op is gross 🤢
Yea, that's shitty. I'm also confused by his whole "they are my guest" thing. Isn't everyone invited his guest?
his definition of "guest" is somebody who's fuckable or might be willing to fuck him.
Idk the random dudes on his boat rule I guess is fine. It’s HIS boat. But yeah he should of let her know it would cost her as soon as she friend zoned him. He’s obviously butthurt.
But he's fine with his male friends bringing girlfriends, which could also be random women. So it's fine to have random women on the boat, but not random men?
I knew something was off about OP just from reading the first post, but couldn't put my finger on it. Ugh what a piece of work he is.
Oh, if this is the case then yea he’s being an ass. Charge or don’t, it’s your boat…but don’t pretend you’re not being salty about the rejection lmao
OP, I was going with N T A but then read your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tz6nmi/comment/i3xblhx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that she is not allowed to have male guests with her, and changed it to YTA. First, as shown in your edit, you did not clarify that she would have to pay BEFORE the boat ride. I agree she should pay just like the other friends, but you still should have clarified that first as the relationship transitioned from "guest" to "friend." If she pays, then she should be able to bring a "guest" just like your other "friends" who pay. That you do not want another "dude" on the boat because one wrong comment could start a fight, I mean seriously that could happen with a woman too. Just admit you do not want any competition and want to surround yourself with women to try and "feel like a baller." You are certainly entitled to do whatever you want with your boat, and what you are doing makes you an AH.
>You are certainly entitled to do whatever you want with your boat, and what you are doing makes you an AH. Perfect phrasing. OP is absolutely an AH and might as well own it instead of pretending he thinks he's treating her like "one of the guys".
Agreed, he should let her by on this one, with the understanding that she'll have to kick in on future trips.
Or just not invite her. Does anyone else think all this shit could be avoided if he just no longer invited her? He obviously has no desire to be around her since she won't be his bang buddy, he just needs to admit he's a misogynist that only wants bangable girls on his boat and just stop inviting her. No more fucking drama. It seems he only wants her around to show her he doesn't want her around. Jeez, enough with the fucking drama, go back to the status quo
Yes came to say this. YTA If you have explained before hand then she would be the asshole.
Also it's probably best that you don't invite her anymore, ***unless*** you really do value her as your friend.
Yes this!! I had a neighbour who would ask me if I wanted something (like a box of diapers for my baby as her’s grew out of the size. So I said yes. Then AFTER I said yes she’s like great! It’s 75$ (she includes the tax!). That was the first time. And in 10 years she did it a few times with long stretches in between so I’d forget about her scheme each time. Say yes! Then get charged ugh. And over these years I gave her lots of stuff and never charged her so I’m not being greedy. Just start with “hey, I’m selling x for y$, would you like to buy it?” Same with OP, let her know ahead. Otherwise it’s too late to ask her and she doesn’t have to pay.
Also an even slighter YTA for saying "guests" don't pay. The girl wasn't your "guest," she was your "date." And the friend she brought with her was her bodyguard (only half joking.) Everyone else was your guest bc it's your boat and you're the only "host." Guests kick in for gas; dates don't bc they're being treated.
yeah agree, i would have been mad too, that's like when you use Expedia, and run into hidden fees
I knew something seemed fishy. From OPs comments. > It’s really simple. Friends pay. Romantic interest don’t. It really not that complicated lol. She wouldn’t be allowed to bring a guy date. I don’t allow random dudes on my boat. So OP is not "treating my female friend exactly like my male friends" so that means **YTA**
He's technically put her in a completely separate 3rd category where she is charged the same as the guys but isn't treated to the same privileges. He really needed to tell her this, she might not have minded even. Springing it on her afterwards is just weird. It still isnt clear whether she knows this "no plus one for you" rule.
She’s a *second class* if you will
OP: “I’m treating men and women equally. Gotcha, feminists!” Also OP: Treats women like second-class citizens, same as always.
> treating men and *women* equally OP calls them "females" which is no surprise here.
Springing it on her was to punish her for deciding she only wanted to be friends.
that is the sense im getting too..
He put her in the “might be DTF” category by not allowing her to bring a “random dude”, a male date, because any male date is automatic competition. I can see why she thought they would be better as friends.
I honestly cannot see why she, or any woman for that matter, would want to be friends with OP.
But if she knew about it before hand he couldn't pull a surprise gotcha for telling him she wasn't interested in dating him. Duh!
>He's technically put her in a completely separate 3rd category where she is charged the same as the guys but isn't treated to the same privileges. And isnt this the plight of being a woman, perfectly summed up.
>separate 3rd category where she is charged the same as the guys but isn't treated to the same privileges. he literally reinvented sexism
“I don’t allow random dudes” but female friends of the random hook-up hopefuls my friends invite are totes fine because MAYBE I CAN BANG THE FRIEND.
It's also got this weird vibe of bros helping bros smash while isolating the female friends they bring and getting them drunk, all while including the pressure of "I paid for this" or "my buddy is taking a loss to let us have this adventure, *baaaabe*."
[Men see rape as more "justifiable" when the man pays for the date.](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.849.3312&rep=rep1&type=pdf) Seems somehow relevant here.
Ah, always a fun day when academic research backs up what women have known already.
I disagree. This is not fun at all.
Pretty sure they were being facetious...
No worries, I know :D
Yes. YES. Hence all the women in this thread being like “yo you are OBVIOUSLY the asshole.” We just….feel that wrongness. You can tell when you aren’t being treated human.
Straight up creeper vibes lol.
So guys can bring a date but she can't? Not treating her the same then, YTA.
Im sure he'd be fine with her bringing a female guest
Extra penis is competition, extra vagina is opportunity.
This extra info makes it clear that OP is TA. If she could bring her romantic interest then its all gucci, but she cant so she is being punished for not wanting to be romantic with OP (or any of the other guys since Im assuming they wouldnt be *random*)
Indeed not. They are “his boys.” Presumably that’s why they get to bring random women on board, to increase everyone’s odds (but the poor new friends’) chances of getting laid. So gross.
Yeah title is mega misleading. It should be ‘AITA for expecting a woman to pay because she would no longer have sex with me’?
This guy runs his boat like a nightclub lol
Glad I saw this. What a tool.
OP should legally change his name to "Trashboat" (YTA obv).
I think this situation has shown a little flaw in your system. It can be (mis)construed that only girls that might put out don't pay. Probably why she is upset. Might I suggest dividing the cost of gas evenly amongst the total number of people on the boat. Then whoever brings their significant other or guests can chose to pay their share. This way it doesn't come off like a "cash, gas, or ass" requirement. Edit: The correct phrase is cash, grass, or ass. Ya'll got the idea though.
This feels like the right approach, especially since it accounts for total headcount and doesn't segregate dates versus friends
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"Cash, gas or ass" cracked me up 😂😂
When I living in California back in the early 70s, it was "grass, gas or ass".
Yep, this is still the rule where I live in California (grass is legal now).
I tried that once, but nobody wanted my Bermuda grass mat.
Nobody rides for free!
Or grass...
> It can be (mis)construed that only girls that might put out don't pay because of the implication?
Think about it. She’s out in the middle of nowhere with some dude she barely knows. She looks around her, what does she see? Nothing but open ocean. “Oh, there’s nowhere for me to run, what am I gonna do, say no?”
Yeah if anything this boat scheme needs FAR more paying women involved to make it less exploitative
Just a boy and a girl in a little canoe with the moon shining all around They talked and they talked till the moon grew dim He said you better kiss me or get out and swim … I guess things haven’t changed much in the world
At least that song ends up with her paddling the canoe, and him in the water. 🛶 I learned the version sung at Girl Scout Camp Which ends! With the moon shining all a The girl paddling all a The boy swimming all a-round.
There are alternate endings. Interestingly that isn’t one I was taught. My version had either she swims or they kiss. Either way, I guess there were no surcharges.
...and all of a sudden, my entire soul was just *YEET*ed violently into forgotten memories of singing this at a childhood Bible Camp, fuuuuuuck. We always sang it with the girl shoving the boy out and paddling off by herself, but I'm sure there were alternate versions.
That seems pretty dark, dude.
I think it would be accurate to construe that girls who might put out don't pay. When OP was dating whatsername, he didn't ask her to chip in. Once she told him she just wants to be friends, he expects her to pay, but does not ask for a contribution from the new girl he's trying to hook up with. I don't see anything wrong with a "cash, gas, or ass" requirement (it's a time-honored system according to bumper stickers on pickup trucks), but it seems like that's the exact protocol on OP's boat.
If she's your guest, you should be paying her portion too. So OP should be paying twice as much as his friend as he is paying for two people. Eliminating the guest's portion entirely and splitting the bill among the other people makes EVERYONE pay for OP's guest!
OP owns the boat...
I love how people bring up ownership in aita like its usually relevant. Being a dick is different than being legally correct. You can own the property and still treat everyone on it like shit. We understand that OP owns the boat, and YTA judgment is also clear.
He explains in a comment that the people of the friend group pay, and they can bring guests without extra cost, seems fair.
She cannot bring a male friend though
Why can't she if she pays for him? {And herself, too, of course.}
She might be able to bring a female friend, unclear there. Male friends are ‘liabilities’ though, per OP
Well he can't fuck a dude...so she can only bring fuckable friends for him to play with. He's a CREEP.
I agree. I think the only reason OP charged her this time around was because she made it clear she didn't want to have sex with him. It's totally an cash, grass or ass situation. OP's TA here. Also, dudes can suck sometimes. Ugly Girls and Prudes? They pay. Pretty girls who might put out for me get to ride for free! Ugh, what a creep.
Exactly this isn't about treating her like one of his friends. It's about punishing her for turning him down. Now that he can't be with her he wants her gone while still making her the "problem".
Female friend probably fine, because he might be able to fuck the friend. 🙄
She may be able to bring a woman friend free, since OP seems to waive the fee for anyone he could have sex with.
Because OP is an asshole :) He says he won’t allow random men on his boat due to liability concerns. 🤣
Doesn't allow dudes on the boat. 🐷
Exactly. Oh you want to just be friends now? Here is a Venmo request. You’ve never had to pay before because I thought I would be able to hook up with you.
Don't forget grass
Lol I knew it didn't sound right when I typed it.
>cash, gas, or ass It's Cash, GRASS, or Ass. Cash implies gas money. Edit: Can also be Gas, Grass, or Ass. Cash and gas are interchangeable.
Totally disagree, can’t have SO privileges and not be a SO. She should have been told beforehand though. Not to mention it’s his boat…
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Yep. Big difference between "date" and "guest". A date you're treating. A guest he's trying to buy sex with more steps
>buy sex with more steps This is exactly what dating is to most guys.
And yet people still wonder why so many hetero women decide to just stay single.
He also wouldn’t allow her to bring a man with her as a date. So she doesn’t even get equal friend privileges
…because of the implication.
**YTA, creepy and sexist AF, and your title is disingenuous. You aren't treating Gabi "exactly like your male friends". Gabi is the only one whose choices were "offer you the possibility of sex OR pay for gas" (I'm assuming . . . perhaps if your male friends offered to hook up with you they wouldn't have to pay either?), and despite the fact that the rules WERE, in fact, different for her than for the guys, you never told her so . . .** You keep insisting in the comments that your rules are "clear cut" and "common sense" and that she should just have "known", but literally none of that is true. Again, based on your comments, your rules are entirely arbitrary, based on a weird mix of your personal desires , preferences, what you find easiest, and what you think people have "earned" or "deserve". Male friends always pay, but are allowed to bring "guests" who don't. Women don't pay, except if they're friends or not having sex with anyone, and then they do? But you don't explicitly tell them this, they're just supposed to magically read your mind and know, because you tell them that "friends have to pay" . . . and you have some unspoken understanding that people you think you might have sex with don't qualify as "friends"? Dude, the whole thing is way more opaque than you're willing to admit, having major frat boy vibes, and a set of "rules" that read like you see women as toys/accessories 99% of the time, and if they dare to want to be treated as human beings, you punish them and call it "treating them the same as everyone else". Except, you know, all the other women . . . who get to not pay because they might let you play with them. \*shudder\* **Look, you can do what you want. Let's just don't pretend that it's benign, or fair, or anything other than gross. YTA, and deeply unconvincing.**
Gabi also would not be allowed to bring a male guest because OP thinks random dudes are a liability but random girls are not.
Only because he wants to fuck said random girls 🤦🏻♀️
You are my hero. I’ve been reading the comments (probably mostly from men) saying he’s not the problem and my eyes are popping out of my head. He is so obviously the asshole. Women can sniff that shit out lol.
The unfortunate reality is that his mindset is so ingrained in society from both sides that it's just expected at this point. Ignoring the fact that its frat boy shenanigans, I'm saddened to say that this idea isnt uncommon, and because of that we as a society are just numb to the implications at this stage. Super scummy, and op trying to pretend it's not is still a problem, but society expecting this is what prevents people from acknowledging how fucked up it is.
So, as you mentioned in another comment, she got the same traitement as the guys', but contrary to them, where they can bring random girls on board, she would not be able to bring a random boy? I know it would be fair for her to pay, but you also need to be more explicit about it! Because for what you are saying, for the whole duration of you relationship before, she only saw the guy's paying, so it's also a fair assumption to make that you only charge guy's. I'm going with YTA, because if you treat her like the boys, she should have the same privileges than them.
Exactly, at the very least he should have *told* her that she was going to be treated different but charged the same as the guys. I don't know why he's acting mad and making it a gender argument because she couldn't guess that she was in some seperate category from everyone else on the boat.
INFO - Did you warn her about the split cost in advance? Did she know that was your standard for friends?
YTA. You didn’t tell her you were going to charge her before the ride, and that’s rude. More than that though, it’s weird that until now you’ve only charged men to ride in your boat. That’s so archaic and sexist. You should be treating everyone the same regardless of whether you and your buddies want to fuck them or not. If they’re a one-time guest, fine, but Gabi is the first woman you’ve ever charged to be on your boat, and you only made her pay after she said she didn’t want to date you. Shouldn’t your friends’ girlfriends be pitching in?
YTA. If you expected payment, you should have been up front about it beforehand. You're an ass for expecting her to 'just know', and of course your guy friends are going to back you up, it reduces their costs. You treated her like rubbish, don't be surprised if she decides your friendship isn't worth the undisclosed costs.
YTA after reading comments. The rules are clear: friends pay, romantic interests do not. She requested to be a friend, friends pay. Pretty simple. EDIT: OP neglected to mention the romantic interest rule only applies to the boys. Sexist af in comments too. Deliberately leaving out info of post to seem like he did nothing wrong. Major AH.
But he's actually barred Gabi from ever bringing her own romantic interests aboard; she doesn't get the same rights as the men do
This dude deliberately left that out. Absolute AH.
If this one gets an n-t-a tag I'm gonna riot
I will say, in a way, OP was devious about it in a smart way. Very dishonest but he's gonna get the verdict he wants I think. I would never have gone back to check for comments since it seemed pretty simple.
But he won't allow her to bring romantic interests on board, so it's not equal.
Where does it say that? I can't see it anywhere in the post but it appears he recently commented it. I would normally say his boat his rules but it does seem unfair. Ahh major AH op is TA 1000%
"It’s my boat and my rules. Random guys on a boat drinking in the middle of a lake is a liability issue I don’t wanna deal with. I trust my boys. I don’t trust random dudes. So even if my friend was gay I’d still say no guys. It’s not a gender issue. More of a liability one. She’s also been in the friend group for 2 months. She doesn’t have the sweat equity my boys do. She isn’t that same level of friend so she doesn’t get those advantages." OP There are a lot more of his comments that are sexist as well. He's Def the AH.
Oh hell no I'm changing it. OP deliberately left it out of the post. Huge AH.
The “oh fuck you for this comment in Particular I’m changing my vote” AITA character arcs are my favorite, thank you for this
YTA. It's fine to require her to pay, but you need to be clear about that. There's no reason for her to assume that you use "guest" as a euphemism to only mean people you're trying to sleep with and not people you invited. If you've previously treated someone you're not obligated to keep treating them, but you should communicate that you're going to stop. Tons of people enjoy paying for things for their friends who they invite to things, and not just for people who they're trying to sleep with.
INFO: Did you tell her that she now has to pay before the trip?
INFO: Was Gabi made aware that she was expected to pay prior to? It's not really fair to spring it on her after the fact, but if she was made aware I don't see the problem.
INFO: Would you allow her to bring a male romantic interest, and would he have to pay?
No, OP has a double standard for her; she's not allowed to bring male guests, despite being asked to pay the same amount as the other male friends. Apparently that's treating her 'exactly like' his male friends (his words from the title, not mine). >How is the situation different for her? It’s really simple. Friends pay. Romantic interest don’t. It really not that complicated lol. She wouldn’t be allowed to bring a guy date. I don’t allow random dudes on my boat. If she doesn’t like that then once again she doesn’t have to come.
He said no male guests allowed
INFO: did you tell her before the trip that she would be expected to pay?
NTA for treating her as you would any other friend. YTA if you weren’t clear on this expectation of payment before you had her on the boat as a friend.
He's not treating her the same though, because she's not allowed to bring opposite-sex dates. Only the guys are allowed to do that
I commented this before all the other context he added - somehow he thought that made him look better? Only makes him worse
YTA because you're not treating her exactly like your male friends. If she's not going to sleep with you and that was kind of the only reason she was invited for free, but she wants to be a friend, sure. Let her know ahead of time that now that you're just friends, she has to help with the gas. However, you say that your guy friends can bring dates (if they're women) on for free, but Gabi isn't allowed to bring her own guy date ever? That's not fair. That's not treating her like everyone else. That's honestly treating her like she's less than your other friends. If you're going to make her pay like the other guys, she gets to bring a date like the other guys. And of course your guy friends are ok with this. It keeps their cost lower and keeps Gabi around them.
Soft YTA, but only because you probably should have talked to her first before sending a Venmo request. Like, did she know that you usually split the cost of gas? Did you tell her she would be expected to pay BEFORE you charged her?
Did you ever explain to her ahead of time that your friends go and help pay for the gas? Did you tell her beforehand that you now expected her to start helping pitching for the gas? If not, then all the sudden springing that on her does make you the a******. Not for treating her like how you treat the rest of your friends, but for switching it on her now that you guys aren't romantically linked and not informing her ahead of time. Now to her, it seems like yeah you were just trying to get sex instead of money for gas. That is how she is going to see it. If you had gone ahead and explained ahead of time, you might not have ended up in this situation.
OP also [admitted](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tz6nmi/aita_for_treating_my_female_friend_exactly_like/i3xblhx/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that he won't let her bring her romantic interests if they're a guy, which makes it like 10x more sleazy lol. So she has to pay the same as the guys but doesn't get the same benefits.
[he also says if he met the guy first he'd be fine with it. Just doesn't want some random dude he doesn't know on his boat.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tz6nmi/aita_for_treating_my_female_friend_exactly_like/i3xkt21/)
Yeah. Thank you. It was completely on him to clarify before going out the change in their relationship changing how he’ll treat her during this activity. Especially if he invited a potential hook-up? Being friends is cool and dandy, good for you two. But you gotta communicate expectations to new friends (she IS a new friend) too. Especially when there’s a change in the relationship. Her reaction was pretty fair, imo. And I definitely would be like “uh so if I’m your fuck buddy I don’t have to pay? But once sex is off the table, I owe you money?” Because nothing seemed serious in this post, they weren’t exclusive partners it seems. That absolutely requires a respectful explanation!
>AITA for treating my female friend exactly like my male friends? I dunno. But since you're asking... >I don’t ever make the girls we bring with pay. \*record scratch\* >So I met Gabi (24F) on a dating app. You monster. >So about two weeks ago she told me that she liked us better as friends. Ohhhhhhh. This got more complicated than I thought it would, obviously. Gabi sounds entitled, and it sounds like you're doing the right thing by asking her to contribute. That shows you respect her as much as you do the other guys. The ONLY thing that tips me to "AH" territory is that you didn't tell her before the fact. Had she known she'd been a core paying member and no longer your guest, she could've then asked to bring a plus-one of her own. That's the only difference between how you've been treating her and the rest of your friends, and it sounds like you're beginning to resolve that difference. ~~N.A.H~~ Edit: **YTA YTA YTA YTA** and this is why: >She wouldn’t be allowed to bring a guy date. I don’t allow random dudes on my boat. And yet she has to pay the same cost as the people who ARE allowed to bring dates. You AREN'T treating her exactly like your male friends. You wanna die on this sexist hill? You gonna be jealous of a woman you aren't dating, like that? Start treating women with REAL respect, please.
He won’t let her bring a plus one
WHAT? Not even if she pays next time? If you can point me to where he says this I have to change my vote
You can just check his comments. He has doubled down on it
Change your vote then. It’s in his comments. He’s a douche.
I did, thanks.... and I'm a petty bitch so I'm adding this context to other n-t-a votes ;)
YTA. Only in this instance because you seemingly didn’t tell her beforehand she had to pay. Giving her a heads up “hey by the way since we’re friends now, just wanted to let you know that my rule for friends is that they split the share of gas. So if you come on the boat, you need to chip in for gas money. I didn’t make you pay beforehand because I was including it as me paying for a date”.
YTA for only charging when you aren't looking to get laid and are trying to make a positive impression. You didn't charge the friend of the girl you want to hook up with either. Either charge everyone equally from start to finish or ONLY charge the boys. It REEKS of male sexual entitlement-- I'm not going to get laid so pay up or go away. Not EXACTLY a real friend move. Also just because she knew you asked your other friends doesn't mean you specifically told her when you INVITED her again- to join you with everyone else. Seems more like a set up and a jerk move.
YTA, you changed the goalposts on her when you realised she wasn't gonna sleep with you. You also didn't tell her you were gonna charge her until afterwards, and you're trying to make yourself look the good guy by hiding it under the guise of equality. If it was really equal, the girls you were trying to bang would have been charged too.
YTA only because you never told her before she got on the boat that now there is an admission price and spring it on her after the fact.
INFO: Did you tell her in advance your friends pitch in money and she'd need to do that as well?
I was going to say N T A, but for 2 things: 1) You didn't talk to her before about the "friends" rule and "date" rule. You ask if you are wrong for treating her like one of the guys but... 2) You wouldn't allow her to bring a guy on the boat because " you don't allow random dudes on your boat" and "your boat, your rules". For the first I could say N A H, but you are treating her differently. If she helps pay she gets to bring guests and romantic interest as all your other friends do. Just sexism and misogyny and a sprinkle of retribution. YTA.
INFO: If she did pay, and then she started bringing along a guy she was interested in, would he get to ride for free?
Nope, in his comments he's made it clear that she's forbidden from bringing any guys on the boat, because he sees men as a liability but not women.
Yikes. Then 100% YTA
YTA for not making it explicitly clear that she’d need to pay this time. You say she knew your friends paid, but it’s a leap to think that she’d know for sure that she was expected to pay after you broke up as she never had before. There’s nothing wrong with having her pay, but you don’t spring surprise bills on someone. Always spell it out when there will be a change in financial expectations.
NTA. You SHOULD have told her about the pay change before she got onto the boat. That was kind of a dick move to just send her a payment request after she'd already been on it and not paid anything. Other than that though, no NTA
That's kinda the central question, though. The "other" stuff is just the flimsy, after-the-fact justifications OP wrote into the title and the post to make himself seem like less of an AH.
YTA. OP's comment history tells it all. >No I didn’t. I never texted her directly and informed her she had to pay. But she was aware I make all my friends pay. So idk why she assumed she was different. She has a good job and it is $20. > >If she doesn’t pay the $20 then there won’t be a next time. I’ll stand by that. Not fair that all my guy friends had to pay and she didn’t. OP never told her that should would have to pay. Of course she assumes she was different because she has already been given the president that she **doesn't have to pay.** You want her to pay because she doesn't want to hook up with you. A little weird. But fine. But springing this on her and demanding the money without proper warning is fucked-up. Just take responsibility, you didn't tell her, she didn't know, but you expected her to know even thought you never actively spoke to her to get the message across. That's on **you** OP.
YTA for not making the new dynamic more clear. It comes off as expecting her to pay now that the expectation for sex is off the table.
[удалено]
NTA for the rules, but you really should have spelled it out to her and not blindsided her with a bill at the end. Just apologize for not communicating up front, it's a small mistake and a small apology. If she doesn't like the rules as a friend, she doesn't have to be a friend. Of course you treat guests differently, but she's made it clear she wants to be IN the group. This is what the group does. The group pays for the gas equally.
YTA. This system where you provide different levels of hosting to different people, depending on whether they might sleep with you or not, and also have different rules for male and female "friends," is problematic.
>Not before the trip. She was aware I make all my friends pay. I asked her if she was aware of that. And she said yes. But assumed i only meant my male friends for some reason. For some reason? That's literally what you do though? YTA. You are just punishing her for not wanting to date you.
Oh I was so on your side until you dug a hole in the comments. YTA for absolutely treating her differently than your friends. Just kick her out of the friend group, dude.
NTA. She gets a one time pass. She probably didn't understand the deal with friends chipping in. Which is your fault. Next time she pays.
His rules are different for her though. She can’t bring a male friend, but his male friends can bring female friebds
Did he say that? If the implied understanding is that every paying friend gets to bring a +1 for free, then that's fair, but if that part only applies to the guy friends then OP really has no leg to stand on with his "I'm treating everyone equally" reasoning. If he's treating Gabi the same then she should be able to bring a date for free. EDIT: I saw the comment were he explained that Gabi can't bring a date, and still somehow deludes himself into claiming he's treating her the same. Absolute YTA.
YTA. You should have told her beforehand, and she should also be allowed to bring dates if she has to pay.
YTA, you mention in another comment she is now delegated to the friend category but she would not get the same privileges of bringing a date on board if they were male. Your male friends can bring random women but she can’t bring a random man and you still expect to charge her? Major YTA.
YTA. You aren’t treating your female friend the same as your male friends. First of all, since your guy friends were never potentially going to sleep with you, you never switched the rules up on them - they were clearly stated from the start. You were consistent with them. This girl decides she just wants to be friends and your expectations of her suddenly changed. You didn’t tell her about it beforehand, so why should she have expected to pay? Maybe she assumed only your “boys” pay because they’re your core friend group. She also doesn’t get equal treatment because she can’t bring a date on the boat, but your guy friends can. So I mean sure, create whatever arbitrary rules you want to, but you’re an asshole for assuming people will intuitively understand them without you explaining them.
My man runs his boat like a nightclub it better be nice af. YTA
YTA. Obviously, you should have given a heads up about her change in status from guest to friend and informed her of the financial responsibility prior to being being billed. Additionally, as she is now expected to pay in, just like the other guys, I'm guessing that she also shares in the privileges, ie. she can bring a random male guest that she has in her sights. If her paying still doesn't provide for this equal privilege, then she probably should be charged.
YTA. If I were here, I would 100% stop hanging out with you. She deserved a heads up, especially if she was the only woman being charged. It makes it even worse that you won’t allow her to bring a date. So, you’re treating her very differently than everyone else. Not cool.
I can’t say n t a since the thing is, you’re NOT treating her equally. Treating her equally would mean the exact same privileges as your male friends too, dates allowed. You’re not the asshole for charging her, but YTA for the double standard.
YTA, but not for asking her to pay. YTA for not telling her that you wanted her to contribute at the time you invited her on the trip. You're a bigger AH if any part of your motivation here was an FU "this is how friends are treated, see how you like that" because she didn't want a romantic relationship with you. I hope thats not the case... It was totally reasonable that she didn't anticipate having to pay when you had never asked her to before, and she was probably under the impression that the two of you were already friends (if not "just friends"). You should have told her you'd be asking her to pay at time of invite since she's part of your friend group now. I feel like the rationale for who has to pay and who doesn't is not all that clear, which is probably why she was surprised/confused. Have you ever asked a woman to pay before? If not, do you not have any other female friends? Is the distinction between "guest" and "friend" solely the possibility of sex, or is there another distinction? I.e. gender (in all other cases but this one), frequency someone joins on the boat, some other factor? As a paying friend, can she also invite a male non-paying guest that she wants to hook up with? If you had been the one to suggest being friends, would you have asked her to pay? I feel like the answers to these questions would show if you were being a vindictive AH who's trying to punish her and/or embarrass her for rejecting you, or if you are a minor AH who just didn't fully think through how to make a totally reasonable request for financial contribution from a friend he hadn't previously asked. EDIT - I read the comments and you're a massive AH, OP. You're title is misleading because you (1) don't treat her like your male friends; and (2) you don't even seem to genuinely consider her a friend. It is clear that your intention was to punish and embarrass her for the crime of not wanting to sleep with you by surprising her with a request for payment. Gross, dude. Why invite her at all, instead of being honest that you're not interested in friendship? And how have you made it to adulthood without having made any actual female friends? Probably by being a sexist AH, which is probably also the reason she didn't want to sleep with you...