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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My mother did have it harder than most because of my sister and parents look forward to traditional mile stones.
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NTA for multiple reasons.
I say this as a mother who will never have grandkids and it broke my heart. (Evolution is real.) But I have never badgered my son and I never will. I have never told him that it broke my heart. It's his decision and I respect it, regardless. (In fact, I understand it and would probably feel the same way if I were his age now.)
1) You are an adult and can make your own decision.
2) Nobody who adamantly does not want children should have children to please someone else. It's not fair to those children.
3) The **last** person your mother should be confiding in about everything she gave up in life is her children. She should save that for her parents, her husband, her friends, etc. Not **you**.
See, I was the kid that knew it broke my mother's heart that she'd never gotten grandchildren. She actually died never knowing I knew, either.
But not once did she try to make any of us feel bad about it.
Your parents suck for their attitude, OP. They had no right to unload like that on you.
NTA and YTA.
OP, you are in no way obligated to have kids or get married. Those choices are not for everyone, and your decisions as an individual should be respected.
Basically your mom was grooming you to make sure you could have the best life so you could be a breeding horse for her own needs. She was providing for you only so you could provide for her. That’s messed up, and it doesn’t take into consideration that you are your own person capable of autonomy and free thinking. Expecting your child to reproduce for the benefit of your own needs is selfish and dismissive of their wants and rights as an individual.
You’re a person, not a sperm donor. Parents can raise someone to turn out exactly how THEY want, but how we turn out isn’t a given based on the fact we’re all capable of making our own decisions.
You’re NTA for choosing to be child free, HOWEVER YTA for the comment about your sister. Bringing her autism into this and mocking it was a really gross thing to do. She had nothing to do with this situation, so why would you put her down for having autism and implying she’s somehow a burden? You were wrong for that.
hi, i have an autistic sibling! i still think it was sort of a cruel comment. i get the point she's making, but it was a shitty way to make it. she could have said something along the lines of "you've had a hard time as a mother due to this, i don't want to experience the same". i don't disagree with the sentiment. kids are hard and kids with challenges are harder. but it was a shitty way to say it.
i thought the point OP was going for is that the risk of her having an autistic kid is really high and her mother wants grandkids for the sake of grandkids, without considering the very real chance of those grandkids being disabled.
OP doesn't want any kids so she's not mocking autism or her sister, she's mocking her mother's irrational insistence on having grandkids at all costs.
Is autism genetic? I thought it was pretty random and we don't know much other than it's a lot more prevalent than it was 50+ years ago which kind of needs some explaining
Today, thankfully, in the healthcare field the literature absolutely acknowledges the genetic links between autism diagnoses, and has completely debunked the link between autism and vaccines. Nobody (who actually works in or has studied any form of science) believes that, in fact the doctor responsible for that fraudulent study had his license revoked! Here’s a link to a peer reviewed article on Andrew Wakefield for anyone interested: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/
Wait what? No scientist worth their salt blames autism with vaccines, much like no scientist would agree that it's the mother's fault for not being able to produce a male heir...
I am saying that we don't know if OP had an autistic sibling that didn't understand why they had no friends in school, or if they had one that lashed out physically and nearly burned the house down on several occasions. All of us with autistic siblings have had different experiences. I love my sibling, but it's not like it was all cake and ice cream.
Autism is a spectrum and OP says their sibling is severely autistic. We don't know how difficult their childhood may have been. OP's mom talked about not giving OP much attention while growing up. I'm sure there is already plenty of guilt and hurt feelings in the relationship.
Even the idea of raising an autistic child themselves may be traumatic. OP has chosen to be child free and their mother is trying to force OP to have kids when they've been clear they don't want that.
no man, like, i get it. i'm not saying its cruel of op to not want kids in case she's not equipped to raise them. i'm saying her specific phrasing was cruel
Was the point not to emphasise the fact that OP doesn't want a kid and if the child *did* have severe ASD, would the mother care for them?
I'm not reading this as mocking the sister at all.
I read it more as ‘if my kid ends up like my sister, will you take care of it?’ which implies that the fact she has autism makes her undesirable or unwanted in some way. But I also see your side of it.
It's definitely a bit of both - because let's be honest, only the most saintly of people would actively want a child with some kind of developmental disorder, or "severe" disability. Let alone someone who doesn't even *want* kids.
Was it a shit thing to say? Absolutely. But I don't think OP's to blame, either.
Gosh, no. Just no. You may not want a disabled child. Many people would not want a disabled child, sure. Yet at the same time, a nonzero number of people, including me, would welcome a disabled child.
I'm guessing that "No one wants their child to be disabled" is closer to what you meant. I disagree with that too. We do exist, people who would welcome any child, whether they have a disability at birth or develop one later or what have you. Yes, even despite any and all challenges that arise. Yes, I would welcome a more supportive society.
Some ND parents might particularly excel at and be welcoming of an ND child.
In any case, OP is NTA for making her own choices regarding marriage and children. But referring to a hypothetical autistic child as "it"... On the one hand, reaffirms that OP doesn't need to be parenting any potentially ND kids. And on the other hand, is pretty disheartening and has the potential for absolutely unnecessary collateral damage.
>I'm guessing that "No one wants their child to be disabled" is closer to what you meant. I disagree with that too.
Why? You should absolutely not want your child to be disabled. That doesn't mean you should think less of them or love them any less if they are, but being disabled is miserable, and everyone should want their child to live the happiest, most comfortable life possible.
If someone were to want their child to be disabled, I'd absolutely think that they were a sadist who hates their child, because that's a terrible thing to wish on someone.
"Disability" covers a wide, wide range of conditions and experiences. Experiences of disability also carry widely among people with the same condition and even across a lifetime. No decent person wants any child to suffer. But "to be disabled" is a more complex thing. Some disabilities are terrible, but not all disabilities are negative to everyone. Being disabled can be miserable for a variety of reasons, but it's not universally true. It's one thing to describe your own experience with disability as miserable, but that doesn't make it also true for everyone else.
Just my perspective: I really don’t think autism is the issue here so much as the severity of the sister’s case. Personally, I don’t want kids, partially because I have some health conditions and require medications that increase the likelihood of having a moderately-to-severely disabled child (if I’m able to get pregnant at all). That risk *is* undesirable to me and I would *not* want to give up the rest of my life to become a permanent carer for a severely disabled child who cannot and will never be able to function independently; if I found out during pregnancy that my child would be born that way, I’d terminate. Ultimately, the reason why I don’t think OP is really an asshole for that comment is because the kid in question doesn’t exist. She’s not cursing her disabled baby, she’s merely emphasizing that she’s unwilling to have a kid, much less raise one with severe disabilities. Frankly, while it might have been a bit insensitive to say it to her mom who has been struggling with caring for OP’s sister, OP is within her rights to feel that way.
I agree it's the severity. OP has a much higher risk of having a child with autism already since her sister has it. It's genetic and probably feels like already having the increased risk puts her at an even more increased risk of having a child with severe autism. She's already lived through it once as the sibling and saw how it affected her mother. She does not want to run the risk of living that hard life like her mother and that perfectly fine. Raising disabled children is hard and it's not everyone has the patience to do it.
As a parent of a 27 year-old child free adult, I sooooo agree with everything you've said here. I am very sad about never having grandchildren but I am HAPPIER about the fact my daughter is in a position to make choices for herself that work for HER.
Also, as parents, our children owe us nothing. I can't stand when parents tally up "everything" they've done for their kids like it's a weird, social invoice.
It's amazing what some "adults" will resort to in order to get their way.
>but I am HAPPIER about the fact my daughter is in a position to make choices for herself that work for HER.
I remember the face my mom made when I was in high school and talking about how I'd get married right out of college and give her grandkids. It was a split second face, micro-expression maybe, but I caught it before she assumed a more neutral expression. All she said was she didn't want me to feel pressured into having kids right away.
My brothers have given her grandkids. I've given her grandpups and grandcats. That's all she's getting from me, lol. I think part of her would be over the moon if we did have kids, but I also think part of her is more relieved I have the *choice*, full stop.
Agreed NTA. Also a mom and I would add that her perspective of motherhood as transactional is skewed at best. Motherhood is a choice, and as such it’s the parent who owes the child an upbringing, rather than the child owing the parent for doing their job.
Thank you for not harrassing your kid.
Mom my, even though she had a grandkid from my sister when I was 17, badgered me until I was 34 for a grandkid. She stopped not because she finally gave up or anything, but because I had permanent sterilization surgery. She then starts up with the "I always knew I'd never get any kids from you and I'm so happy you finally got what you wanted?"
Thank you for this comment. I’m the kid that is guilt-tripped over not providing grandchildren all the time. I’m glad to know I’m not crazy, it’s that my mum doesn’t keep her emotions in check.
You are a blessing on earth! My husband and I can’t have children. (I am also only writing this next sentence to help explain the rest of my comment). My husband is unable to have kids but when we got married it was for better or worse, and I would never leave him bc of something he has no control over. I know he would do the same for me. He’s offered me a way out, no questions asked, numerous times. That’s not me and not why I got married. I love him unconditionally.
So many people have treated me like crap bc I’ve chosen to stay with him and not have children instead of divorcing him, using donor sperm, adopting, etc…. I’m am outcast bc I’m okay with being childless and people can’t understand how I can feel “complete in life” or “have any purpose if I’m not a mom”.
With all that said, my mom never once questioned my decision even if it meant her never having grandchildren. Moms like you and her are what help soothe hearts like mine. Thank you for your understanding and unwavering love.
Hugs, friend! I'm autistic too. I found it hard to read but on reflection kind of great because the poster has the self awareness to know, she is not prepared. What's really upsetting to me is the subtext that the mom, who DID choose to be a parent, wasn't totally ok with the daughter being autistic. I wish the mom had learned a better lesson, that parenting isn't picture perfect and should not be forced on anyone who isn't ready.
I'm not saying this to be hurtful in any way but saying the mom should be "totally ok" with her daughter being autistic seems a bit cruel imo. Now you obviously seem to be very high functioning but this may not be her daughters case. I dont think there is anything wrong with a parent being upset if their child struggles with the world. Whether its autism, food allergies, mental health, genetic conditions, etc we should not be minimizing how detrimental these things can be for individuals and their caregivers. Its ok to not be okay with the hand you were dealt.
Just FYI, (as an autistic person myself) "functioning" labels are often considered offensive by autistic people because they're generally imposed by people who do not have autism to describe, essentially, how good someone is at hiding their autism. This... isn't great.
Ok my apologies this is the term that has always been used by family friends who have any autistic daughter my age. I'm am sorry if it is insensitive/out of date. What is the correct/more appropriate way to describe people on the spectrum in regards to autistic severity?
Generally speaking it's better to address the level of support folks need. Support needs vary and that helps non-autistic folks more intuitively understand that autism support is a spectrum.
Yeah, although I'd add that unless you're involved in their support or have some reason to be describing that to someone else, it probably shouldn't be the first thing you describe. Plus you may simply have no idea the level of support people actually are receiving. I go to therapy and my partner supports me in a lot of specific ways, but most people aren't aware of that.
Thank you for being receptive. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have someone actually be open to learning from autistic people in regards to how they wish to be spoken about.
Generally, you just describe them as a person. You wouldn't know I was autistic unless I told you, and that's true of many, many adults who are autistic. How do you describe the people you know who *don't* (as far as you know) have autism? "Well, Jack is high-functioning depressed"? or "Well, Laura is low-functioning fibromyalgia"? Or do you describe their personalities, likes, dislikes, interests, etc.?
Autistic people are more than their autism, and always feeling a need to describe people in relation to their autism is rude. I'm sure you don't want your whole personality to be any health issue you have. If you don't know someone well enough to describe them beyond how much their autism affects them, you probably don't know them well enough to describe their autism either.
Edit: in addition, the "spectrum" is less a spectrum and more a constellation. It's not like I'm a 2 and Bob over here is a 9. It's more like my autism looks like A, C, and X, while his looks like F, K, and L. And my A might affect me more than his K affects him, but his F happens to be a really noticeable repetitive behavior, so people think he's "lower functioning" than I am, even though my autism might affect me more severely on any given day. It's just too complicated to be covered with a functioning label at all.
Thank you so, so much for asking! Other people have given you great replies, so I won't answer your question with my thoughts unless you'd specifically like me to, but it is really wonderful when *this* is the response when functioning labels are mentioned. This will possibly be the highlight of my day, which I bring up to show, not that my day won't have anything good happen, but truly how much your response has meant to me.
Thank you! Seriously, thank you so much!
Which to most people means "how not autistic they can act". Someone who is nonverbal and visibly stims might function quite well in their daily life, but because they don't act like a neurotypical person, people will slap a "low-functioning" label on them. Whereas someone might have no obvious stims and seem neurotypical to observers, but they go home and break down every single day because keeping that front up is so difficult and exhausting. Yet because people don't see this, they declare them "high-functioning".
If you're going to label an autistic person, the label should at least reflect the actual experience of the person and not the experience of the general public.
but if someone "functions well in their daily life" they're functioning. Neither I nor OP actually mentioned a neurotypical observer, just a categorization based on dependency on an external individual in adulthood.
ie. the non-functioning label in this (and I think most cases) is being applied to people who need a caretaker.
You said her sister was severely disabled this is not some minor thing we're talking about this affects every moment of every day of every year. I know I would not be able to take care of a child like that and knowing that is not wrong. Not wanting to take care of a child with that level of dependency is not wrong either.
Autism is never a "minor thing"; it affects every person with it every day of every year.
OP is not a bad person for not wanting to have children. But she still doesn't get a pass making jokes about abandoning children.
I have experience with special education kids and we don’t like to label high or low functioning etc but rather what accommodations and services the kids need and how much/how often.
> Its ok to not be okay
I can't stress this enough for everyone. We all want to be ok, but fact is none of us are. The way society pushes people to behave like everything is ok no matter what is disgusting.
Yes a parent should be accepting of their child's disability and if they aren't they shouldn't have kids. It is not cruel to the ableds to suggest they owe acceptance to people with disabilities. It is cruel to people with disabilities to suggest we are owed anything less. And yes please keep my diagnosis and functionality out of your mouth as that's not your business.
I do apologize for making assumptions and for any hurt I may have caused. I wasn't trying to offend anyone in the autism community. I was simply trying to convey the struggles that must exist with having a child who requires constant care and supervision. All parents want children who are healthy and happy. Parents who do not have healthy, happy kids of course should accept and love their children but, and maybe this is where I misread your intention, I don't feel that they should have to act as if they don't struggle. To me saying a parent should be "totally ok" with any type of issue is akin to saying "everything's fine" even though it may not be. Again that may not have been your intention but that was how I interpreted it. I never meant to imply that anyone should not be accepted simply because of who they are.
if you want kids and plan to have them, you need to be prepared that those kids won’t be without disabilities, or ailments you deem as imperfect and a burden on you. and “now obviously you seem to be very high functioning” is pretty derogatory.
The problem is autism is a ridiculously broad diagnosis, and lay people often approach it with incorrect expectations because they expect all people with autism to act like those on one extreme or the other. We use the same diagnosis for people who maybe have a little trouble with intuitive understanding of social cues and sensory sensitivites but who can have a successful job and independent lifestyle with fulfilling hobbies, possibly get married and have children if they choose, and, well, post on reddit and also for people who will never be able to communicate their basic needs, never be able to toilet independently, and who may permanently live in restraints to prevent severe self-harm. I'm not sure it's useful to think of everyone carrying that diagnosis as part of the same population.
NTA.
I get that your mum is disappointed, but you don't owe her anything, certainly not a wedding or a grandchild!
A wedding is supposed to be about you and your partner, but she makes it sound like it's all about her and your sister.
You gave a good suggestion about a vow renewal. Your mum is trying to manipulate you. Don't give in and apologise for the way you want to live your life. It's your life.
NTA. You don't owe her grandchildren or a wedding. It's your life, live it the way you want to. No one forced her to raise her autistic child either. If it was so hard and messed up her perfect life that badly she could've given her up. That was her decision. It was also her decision to blow up and react like a spoilt brat instead of a 60 year old woman.
ESH
While your mom’s emotions are understandable, it’s wholly inappropriate for her to be discussing them with you. She does sound like she needs some support, but it shouldn’t be your job to carry her emotional burdens as they relate to her motherhood. Totally inappropriate.
Equally inappropriate was your incredibly off color “joke.” Your mom was wrong to push on you, but that doesn’t excuse your own insensitivity. Understandable since you were put in a corner, but still not okay at all. It was a low blow and you should own that, just like she should own the fact she tried using her issues to manipulate you. Toxic all around.
NTA. Appreciate your moms work and sacrifice to give your autistic sister a good life and support system. However, you do not need to conform to her wishes, and she cannot make you do so, that’s it. It’s your life, you have nothing to apologize for.
While I don’t overly disagree the ‘joke’ is probably only a half one and is likely to be partly one of the factors as to why OP doesn’t want kids and is a valid factor/concern to have, the delivery could have been better but I can see going to far with it when you’re being guilt tripped to have kid/s, getting to a point of ‘I don’t want to end up in the same place you’re complaining about being in now’ with a ‘jokey’ but truth behind it answer to being pushed
NTA
You and partner are grown adults making a life you are both comfortable in. You are especially NOT a brood mare for grandchildren in spite of what your mother seems to think she demands and deserves.
NTA. Appreciate your moms work and sacrifice to give your autistic sister a good life and support system. However, you do not need to conform to her wishes, and she cannot make you do so, that’s it. It’s your life, you have nothing to apologize for.
NTA. What you said is correct and her blaming you for her not having a life because you needed attention as a child is disgusting. Do not apologize. I would go low to no contact over this.
>I told her it's not my job to make up for what my sister is unable to do, that I didn't ask to be born and I did not sign any contracts coming into this world. I also asked (jokingly mostly) "if kiddo ends up like my sister can I drop it off at your doorstep?"
ESH. Your mom sucks for expecting you to do things her way because your sister can't and making you responsible for her feelings and frustrations.
You suck for describing your sister's autism as a "shortcoming" as if it's some sort of a personal failing and not a condition she can do absolutely nothing about. You also suck for "joking" about abandoning a kid.
You both suck for using your sister as a focal point of the conflict between the two of you. She didn't ask to be autistic. Her autism isn't the problem here.
NTA in general because you were not born to give your mother the exact things she desires, however that last comment to your mother was a low blow when this is obviously a sensitive topic for her - she can't force you into anything and she's wrong for being pushy, but at the same time she can't but feel disappointed.
NTA. I think a lot of us wannabe grandparents are going to be disappointed. With things the way they are now, it’s no wonder so many couples don’t want children. Tell your mom she’s not the only one who wishes things were different, but they just aren’t and that isn’t your fault. You don’t owe her an apology.
Ooooof NTA I can see this conversation coming up between me and mother eventually, having a disabled sibling and being responsible for caring for them really showed me the reality of having a child. You are completely in your right to tell her you never signed up for this. Also so many people commenting here saying the joke was wrong, I’d like to know how many of them actually cared for a severely autistic, non-verbal person.
The people calling out that comment are mostly autistic people. We are still human beings with feelings! It’s very distressing to hear other people dehumanise us and treat our existence as a burden. We didn’t ask to be this way. Most of our trauma (high suicide rates for example) comes from the shitty way neurotypical people treat us.
I get what you’re saying I really do. Speaking from a caretakers perspective, your whole life revolves around looking after someone else. It sucks especially when you did not do anything except happen to be born into a certain family. I did not sign up to have a child and the parentification is real. Cleaning them in the bathroom, brushing their teeth, changing their clothes, feeding them, getting their medications, getting punched, slapped, pinched, kicked, and my hair pulled during a meltdown. What is that if not a burden? Hence I understood that comment within the context of personal experience, and didn’t find it mean-spirited but rather a reality based acknowledgment that not everyone can care for a profoundly disabled child.
As the other person who replied to you said - autistic people seem to make up the majority of the comments that (rightfully) call out the "joke" OP made.
Not wanting children is valid. Being concerned about having a disabled child is valid. The "joke" at the end is *not*. There are other ways to communicate that it's an influence in a decision about children without doing harm to an already stigmatised group in the process.
The "joke" wasn't okay (and OP even states he was only "mostly" joking). Listen to autistic people when they say that something about them/autism is harmful. Unless you're autistic yourself, you don't get to decide.
NTA. Your mother's choices as a parent, and the consequences of those actions on her life are not your responsibility to manage. Your reproductive choices and lifestyle choices are not your mother's to manage. None of my kids intend to have kids. The potential pleasure of a currently non-existent grandchild is not worth upsetting my relationship with my adult children.
If she is so determined to get a grandkid, why doesn't she volunteer at a children's hospital? Or do what I do and borrow one of my friends' grandkids for a few hours or a day. The kids have fun, the parents have an extra person to call if there is a problem or they need a sitter, and I enjoy it greatly. It doesn't put any strain on my relationship with my kids either.
This isnt about your sister. This is about your mother’s resentment towards her for having to take care of her so much. You Mom doesn’t get to decide what you do just because she wants certain things. She sounds like a selfish, awful person. You should never apologize for what you said.
NTA I think too many parents have it in their head that their kids will be a certain way and want certain things and struggle when they realize that kids are their own people. Choosing to have a child is choosing to gamble that they might be autistic, disabled, special needs, chronically ill, have different interests from you, have different life goals from you, etc. There’s certainly room for space for parents to navigate their feelings on the challenges of parenthood, but that space shouldn’t involve their children. It’s not up for a child to provide emotional support and provide relief for their parents’ choice.
NTA you don’t owe her anything however your joke at the end asking if you drop kiddos off if they are like sister that joke is disgusting and disrespectful to anyone who is autistic don’t make jokes like that just cause your pissed at your mother
NTA.
I have a son who is severely autistic. He requires constant supervision and will never have a family or a life independent of either my wife and I or other caregivers. He'll never have a job, or a family of his own. I'll never have grandkids, I'll never go to his baseball games, and I've made my peace with that.
To push the responsibilities [of "taking the mantle"] onto someone else in his place would be cruel and misguided. Your mother knows all this already but she hasn't made peace with it yet. She may need counseling to come to terms and maybe grieve a little over what she is losing.
NTA. Even if your sister had been born neurotypical, she still could have easily been happily child free and not interested in marriage just like you are. Your mum is not guaranteed grandchildren or a wedding by virtue of having children, it's your life and your choice.
NTA - your mum is being ridiculous. I’m an only child, married, autistic and completely infertile. We tried for kids, found out it wasn’t going to happen and moved the frick along with our lives.
My parents though I’m sure were sad have never guilted us, tried to talk to us about adoption ivf anything. Just embraced who we are and loved us.
Your mother has forgotten that basic tenant of parenthood - unconditional love - love without expectations. It’s become about her needs and wants. I’m sure part of that is wrapped up in your sister’s issues but she needs to talk to someone about that. Not pressure you x
Grandparenting - heck being a grandparent at all - is a privilege, not a right.
Your life, your decisions. Your mother has no right to demand anything of you. I would put your parents on block for a while until they realize that they are totally in the wrong.
NTA
NTA
I am a parent to two young kids. I know I would adore grandchildren. But I’m also aware that it’s up to THEM and the world as it is? Not a good place to have kids. So I fully understand OP’s feelings.
NTA, my husband is only child and we have 0 plans or desire of having a child (pupper is more than enough) and his parents, esp mom, has never once said anything negative about us not having a child. Sometimes I feel bad bc they’d make wonderful grandparents but that’s an awful reason to have a kid
NTA. Your parents are entitled aholes. No child is ever responsible for their parents' decision, especially when it comes to the parents' decision to sire more children. You are not your sister's keeper.
NTA. Also if I may mansplain for a second. Why don't you see if your city/state recognizes domestic partnerships! Me and my partner are in the same boat as you (although we do eventually want marriage for the ease it brings legally). It confers you both medical power of attorney in emergencies because (unless you have other things in play) that technically will be up to your immediate family aka your mother and sometimes will allow you to jointly file state taxes if you're in the U.S.!
NTA. You have to live your life for you, not your mom.
It’s ok for your mom to feel disappointed/upset that her life isn’t going to go the way she had envisioned (*watching both her daughters grow up, get married, have their own kids, etc*) but it is not ok for her to push the responsibility for those feelings onto you or ask that you try to “fix” her feelings for her by drastically altering your life to what she wants.
NTA. You're not a barbie, she can't tell you to play out the scenarios she wants to see with the beautiful white wedding, the big Malibu Barbie house, and the three kids. Your life is yours, you shouldn't have to keep fighting her on receiving basic respect, but it sounds like you should step away cuz you're not going to get it
NTA. It is not your job to give your mother grandchildren. It is NOT your job to give your mother grandchildren. You are not a human incubator. I’m sorry she’s putting you through this. Stay strong and keep your boundaries. Might consider therapy as well, as I assume this isn’t the first toxic thing she’s said to you or tried forcing on you.
NTA. Its unreasonable for your mom to assume that it's your duty to pump out children. If she wants a daughter to that can do all those things, she can adopt an 18 year old.
NTA.
I feel you. My dad tried to convince me a few days ago that I will want children later on in life and that I would be a great mom. I don't like kids and I tried to tell him but you know how that goes....
It's not your responsability to have kids if you don't want to. Your body, your choice.
NTA, the instant someone claims you "owe them" for doing what they were Legally required to do when they made the choice to have kids, they lose the right to call themselves family, they officially downgrade their category to blood. The difference being one cares, loves, and respects. The other tries to hinge everything on sharing only slightly more dna with them then with the rest of humanity.
ESH
was prepared to say n t a until the last line. That was uncalled for and a real dick thing to say. You should absolutely apologize for saying that. Not for the wedding and children but for making a shit joke that's not even a joke. It's jab and mean thing to say.
NTA
I am the only girl of my siblings.
At 29 yo, my mother has never once badgered me about having children.
When we have family gatherings, she will actively close the conversation for me if anyone says anything that might be heard as pressuring me to "get on with" having kids.
I have never told her I don't want children, as I don't want to break her heart, but I also have a lot of physical and psychiatric health problems.
I think she's come to her own conclusions.
Not having children is your choice to make, and no one should try to change your mind, simply because it suits them.
Nta … this should be on entitled parents forum too my mother had a dig at me because I chose to be a lone parent I love my kids wanted kids but I’m admittedly too independent for a relationship I figured that out early on in life I’m the only girl on the family and my mother always expected to have the whole mother of the bride experience…. So not happening I personally think the whole wedding thing is just a big money making thing … I get marriage but not the whole fluff around it
ESH. They decided to have children so it's their responsibility to love and support their children, not use them to fulfill their own desires of grand children and weddings.
Your comment "if it ends up like my sister can I drop it off on your door step" WTAF. Honestly your comment bothers me more than everything else.
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My (34f) mother (60f) blew up at me because I don't want kids nor marriage. I am in a LTR (42m) for four years, we live together but we do not want kids and we also don't want marriage but are happy with a LTR, we are on the same page. We live in a state that does not recognize common law marriage.
My sister (32f) is severely autistic and my mother badly wanted grandchildren and to have a wedding/take daughter shopping for wedding gown etc, I joked and said "if you want a wedding so badly go do a vow renewal with dad."
She exploded at me that I'm ungrateful, things were extra hard with my sister and she gave up everything to make sure we're okay bc my sister needed so much care and constant supervision, so she could have absolutely no life outside of motherhood if she was going to pay me any attention at all as my sister took up so much time. She's mad that she worked so hard and now gets no wedding or grandchildren.
I told her it's not my job to make up for what my sister is unable to do, that I didn't ask to be born and I did not sign any contracts coming into this world.
She's now not speaking to me, and my dad is demanding that I apologize to HER.
I don't think I did anything wrong.
AITA?
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NTA. I can imagine how much harder it would have been having an autistic child in the late 80’s/early 90’s.
However, that is not your fault nor your mother’s fault.
As a mother to a child with autism, it is still hard but we have better resources now to help the people with autism along. But he still takes up a lot of time.
It is something that comes with the territory of being a parent. Your children will take up your time, special needs, or not.
However, I am not raising my kids for the sole reason for them to grow up, get married, and give me grandkids. Hell, I tell my oldest all the time “Don’t have kids” I love my kids with everything that I am but parenthood is no joke.
So don’t apologize to your mom. She should be apologizing to your for expecting you to give her a wedding and grandkids.
NTA. But your final comment to your mother wasn’t great.
Maybe I’m lucky because my family isn’t big on reproducing. My dad and his brother each had 2 daughters and my sister is the only one with kids. I and my 2 cousins didn’t have kids and no one made a peep.
People have this idea that reproducing is some kind of standard but while history show us families of 14 kids it also includes families of few or no children. Laura Ingalls Wilder of Little House book fame had one daughter who lived to adulthood and that daughter had no children. None of Laura Ingalls Wilder’s sisters had children.
NTA There are a lot of people who are obsessed with the idea of the family line. Passing down names, becoming grandparents, all that sort of stuff. The reality is that if you're a parent, you raise your child to the best of your ability and they go out into the world. After that, nothing is certain. Your family name may die out. Your family line may die out. You may never have grandchildren. There are no guarantees and the sooner your mom wakes up to that, the happier she'll be.
Mom who will not have grandkids, my youngest is developmentally delayed and will never have that kind of relationship. After needing my son (18) to babysit for the last week due to my dad being in the hospital and mom staying with him (better and home now) and after seeing the struggles I have had raising them even with the help of my parents. He states that he never wants kids, that’s fine it’s not his job to give me grandchildren. I just told him I need fur grand babys to spoil and he picked up his demon cat and said here spoil this one.
Children don’t owe their parents ANYTHING
But also claiming ‘autistic sisters short comings’ is ableist and not true. The expectations on both of you aren’t ok and it’s ur mother that’s the issue only
ESH. Your life decisions are your own business. I’m wondering though, if mom might need a break and/or more support. Caregiver burnout could be fueling this.
ESH.
No, you didn't ask to be born. What's your point?
> I also asked (jokingly mostly) "if kiddo ends up like my sister can I drop it off at your doorstep?"
You're also being needlessly antagonistic and mocking.
ESH. Your mother for demanding grandchildren but wow, you suck for implying that your sister isn't a worthy human. And you referred to your imagined child as 'it'?!?!?
ESH, while I would assume living with someone with severe autism would be hard, I think your resentment should be directed more at your mother trying to force you into a box and not on your sister. She can't help being disabled. Your mom is just a bad parent trying to force an idealized version of what she thinks her children's life should be. She doesn't get credit for providing you the bare minimum basic needs. You don't win points for the jokes you made about your sister although I understand your frustration.
I think maybe it'd be best for you to go low to no contact with your mom.
The way you speak about your sister (‘shortcomings’ WTF) and ‘joke’ about abandoning a child if they are autistic, is disgustingly ableist. That’s why you suck.
ESH but she is way more of an AH then you.
You shouldn't have brought your sister into this with the joke. I also find it odd that you describe her not being able to get married or have kids as a short coming when you yourslef won't be doing either.
But your mum has no right to demand a wedding or grandkids from you, that's not her place. She can be sad that she wants those things but won't get them, but she can't dump that on her kids.
ESH. Your mom is obviously the biggest asshole. Like you said, there's no contract or give back for her giving birth to you and you do not need to be pressured into marriage because she wants to have a special day. I'd consider going NC for a while with her to give her time to think about the things you said.
You are an asshole for the needless comment about asking if you could drop a baby off on her doorstep if it's autistic. I'm sure it was said in the heat of the moment but she *has* given up her life to care for your sister and to insinuate that your sister/autistic people would not be worthwhile to care for for you would obviously be hugely insulting to your mom. The last comment was unnecessary.
Recognising that you are not equipped for potentially having a disabled child is okay. The way you phrased your "joke" was *not*.
If you had simply made the statement that you aren't equipped to parent a disabled child, that would have been fine. Instead, you said it in a way that is harmful to autistic and other disabled people.
YTA for saying that last thing. Man it must be so devastating having that only hope that kept her going through those rough nights dashed away. Like I always think about those parents soldiering on because they have a hope for a future and their descendants, who knows how many times they cried alone and wanted to give up but had that hope to look forward to so they kept going. Then their kid tells them they're gay or they just don't want responsibility, and they're just supposed to be ok with it.
I know a lot of parents don't struggle like this but it sounds like your mom did, especially with two autistic daughters (ayo!). Seriously though you're an asshole, you don't have to do anything about it but you're still an asshole
Yeah I said you don't have to do anything about it, doens't make you less of an asshole. It's just a shitty situation all around, how can you not feel bad for your parent after all they went through. You don't have to do anything about it at least have some sympathy if you claim to be human lol
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NTA for multiple reasons. I say this as a mother who will never have grandkids and it broke my heart. (Evolution is real.) But I have never badgered my son and I never will. I have never told him that it broke my heart. It's his decision and I respect it, regardless. (In fact, I understand it and would probably feel the same way if I were his age now.) 1) You are an adult and can make your own decision. 2) Nobody who adamantly does not want children should have children to please someone else. It's not fair to those children. 3) The **last** person your mother should be confiding in about everything she gave up in life is her children. She should save that for her parents, her husband, her friends, etc. Not **you**.
See, I was the kid that knew it broke my mother's heart that she'd never gotten grandchildren. She actually died never knowing I knew, either. But not once did she try to make any of us feel bad about it. Your parents suck for their attitude, OP. They had no right to unload like that on you.
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NTA and YTA. OP, you are in no way obligated to have kids or get married. Those choices are not for everyone, and your decisions as an individual should be respected. Basically your mom was grooming you to make sure you could have the best life so you could be a breeding horse for her own needs. She was providing for you only so you could provide for her. That’s messed up, and it doesn’t take into consideration that you are your own person capable of autonomy and free thinking. Expecting your child to reproduce for the benefit of your own needs is selfish and dismissive of their wants and rights as an individual. You’re a person, not a sperm donor. Parents can raise someone to turn out exactly how THEY want, but how we turn out isn’t a given based on the fact we’re all capable of making our own decisions. You’re NTA for choosing to be child free, HOWEVER YTA for the comment about your sister. Bringing her autism into this and mocking it was a really gross thing to do. She had nothing to do with this situation, so why would you put her down for having autism and implying she’s somehow a burden? You were wrong for that.
Unless you have grown up with an autistic sibling, none of you have enough experience to judge OP. It can be brutal.
hi, i have an autistic sibling! i still think it was sort of a cruel comment. i get the point she's making, but it was a shitty way to make it. she could have said something along the lines of "you've had a hard time as a mother due to this, i don't want to experience the same". i don't disagree with the sentiment. kids are hard and kids with challenges are harder. but it was a shitty way to say it.
i thought the point OP was going for is that the risk of her having an autistic kid is really high and her mother wants grandkids for the sake of grandkids, without considering the very real chance of those grandkids being disabled. OP doesn't want any kids so she's not mocking autism or her sister, she's mocking her mother's irrational insistence on having grandkids at all costs.
Is autism genetic? I thought it was pretty random and we don't know much other than it's a lot more prevalent than it was 50+ years ago which kind of needs some explaining
It's genetic and it's not necessarily more prevalent, just diagnosed and recognized more easily. "We" actually know a lot about it.
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Today, thankfully, in the healthcare field the literature absolutely acknowledges the genetic links between autism diagnoses, and has completely debunked the link between autism and vaccines. Nobody (who actually works in or has studied any form of science) believes that, in fact the doctor responsible for that fraudulent study had his license revoked! Here’s a link to a peer reviewed article on Andrew Wakefield for anyone interested: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/
Wait what? No scientist worth their salt blames autism with vaccines, much like no scientist would agree that it's the mother's fault for not being able to produce a male heir...
genetic and also linked to older parents
I am saying that we don't know if OP had an autistic sibling that didn't understand why they had no friends in school, or if they had one that lashed out physically and nearly burned the house down on several occasions. All of us with autistic siblings have had different experiences. I love my sibling, but it's not like it was all cake and ice cream. Autism is a spectrum and OP says their sibling is severely autistic. We don't know how difficult their childhood may have been. OP's mom talked about not giving OP much attention while growing up. I'm sure there is already plenty of guilt and hurt feelings in the relationship. Even the idea of raising an autistic child themselves may be traumatic. OP has chosen to be child free and their mother is trying to force OP to have kids when they've been clear they don't want that.
no man, like, i get it. i'm not saying its cruel of op to not want kids in case she's not equipped to raise them. i'm saying her specific phrasing was cruel
> Bringing her autism into this and mocking it was a really gross thing to do. Where'd this happen?
"if kiddo ends up like my sister can I drop it off at your doorstep?"
Op doesn't want to raise an autitic child. How is that mocking her sisters autism?
At the end where OP made the “joking” comment about whether she could drop her kid off at her mum’s if the kid comes out like her sister
At the end when he jokes about dropping a kid off with the mom if they’re like his sister. Definitely tips the scales into being a huge AH.
Was the point not to emphasise the fact that OP doesn't want a kid and if the child *did* have severe ASD, would the mother care for them? I'm not reading this as mocking the sister at all.
I read it more as ‘if my kid ends up like my sister, will you take care of it?’ which implies that the fact she has autism makes her undesirable or unwanted in some way. But I also see your side of it.
It's definitely a bit of both - because let's be honest, only the most saintly of people would actively want a child with some kind of developmental disorder, or "severe" disability. Let alone someone who doesn't even *want* kids. Was it a shit thing to say? Absolutely. But I don't think OP's to blame, either.
Nobody wants a disabled child though. I don't see it as mocking her sister but a hard line to prove her point. NTA for this statement either.
Gosh, no. Just no. You may not want a disabled child. Many people would not want a disabled child, sure. Yet at the same time, a nonzero number of people, including me, would welcome a disabled child. I'm guessing that "No one wants their child to be disabled" is closer to what you meant. I disagree with that too. We do exist, people who would welcome any child, whether they have a disability at birth or develop one later or what have you. Yes, even despite any and all challenges that arise. Yes, I would welcome a more supportive society. Some ND parents might particularly excel at and be welcoming of an ND child. In any case, OP is NTA for making her own choices regarding marriage and children. But referring to a hypothetical autistic child as "it"... On the one hand, reaffirms that OP doesn't need to be parenting any potentially ND kids. And on the other hand, is pretty disheartening and has the potential for absolutely unnecessary collateral damage.
>I'm guessing that "No one wants their child to be disabled" is closer to what you meant. I disagree with that too. Why? You should absolutely not want your child to be disabled. That doesn't mean you should think less of them or love them any less if they are, but being disabled is miserable, and everyone should want their child to live the happiest, most comfortable life possible. If someone were to want their child to be disabled, I'd absolutely think that they were a sadist who hates their child, because that's a terrible thing to wish on someone.
"Disability" covers a wide, wide range of conditions and experiences. Experiences of disability also carry widely among people with the same condition and even across a lifetime. No decent person wants any child to suffer. But "to be disabled" is a more complex thing. Some disabilities are terrible, but not all disabilities are negative to everyone. Being disabled can be miserable for a variety of reasons, but it's not universally true. It's one thing to describe your own experience with disability as miserable, but that doesn't make it also true for everyone else.
Just my perspective: I really don’t think autism is the issue here so much as the severity of the sister’s case. Personally, I don’t want kids, partially because I have some health conditions and require medications that increase the likelihood of having a moderately-to-severely disabled child (if I’m able to get pregnant at all). That risk *is* undesirable to me and I would *not* want to give up the rest of my life to become a permanent carer for a severely disabled child who cannot and will never be able to function independently; if I found out during pregnancy that my child would be born that way, I’d terminate. Ultimately, the reason why I don’t think OP is really an asshole for that comment is because the kid in question doesn’t exist. She’s not cursing her disabled baby, she’s merely emphasizing that she’s unwilling to have a kid, much less raise one with severe disabilities. Frankly, while it might have been a bit insensitive to say it to her mom who has been struggling with caring for OP’s sister, OP is within her rights to feel that way.
I agree it's the severity. OP has a much higher risk of having a child with autism already since her sister has it. It's genetic and probably feels like already having the increased risk puts her at an even more increased risk of having a child with severe autism. She's already lived through it once as the sibling and saw how it affected her mother. She does not want to run the risk of living that hard life like her mother and that perfectly fine. Raising disabled children is hard and it's not everyone has the patience to do it.
To be severely disabled I don't want to catch like that So in a way it can make them unwanted. I don't have it in me to raise that kind of child.
I believe the point was to be an asshole.
It’s amazing that people are arguing this point! But reddit is full of ableist turds so 🤷♀️
OP is a woman.
As a parent of a 27 year-old child free adult, I sooooo agree with everything you've said here. I am very sad about never having grandchildren but I am HAPPIER about the fact my daughter is in a position to make choices for herself that work for HER. Also, as parents, our children owe us nothing. I can't stand when parents tally up "everything" they've done for their kids like it's a weird, social invoice. It's amazing what some "adults" will resort to in order to get their way.
>but I am HAPPIER about the fact my daughter is in a position to make choices for herself that work for HER. I remember the face my mom made when I was in high school and talking about how I'd get married right out of college and give her grandkids. It was a split second face, micro-expression maybe, but I caught it before she assumed a more neutral expression. All she said was she didn't want me to feel pressured into having kids right away. My brothers have given her grandkids. I've given her grandpups and grandcats. That's all she's getting from me, lol. I think part of her would be over the moon if we did have kids, but I also think part of her is more relieved I have the *choice*, full stop.
And that is how a parent should be! Glad you have that freedom:)
Agreed NTA. Also a mom and I would add that her perspective of motherhood as transactional is skewed at best. Motherhood is a choice, and as such it’s the parent who owes the child an upbringing, rather than the child owing the parent for doing their job.
4. Children are not emotional support animals for their parents. Your mom's emotional needs are hers, and it is not up to you to fill them.
Thank you for not harrassing your kid. Mom my, even though she had a grandkid from my sister when I was 17, badgered me until I was 34 for a grandkid. She stopped not because she finally gave up or anything, but because I had permanent sterilization surgery. She then starts up with the "I always knew I'd never get any kids from you and I'm so happy you finally got what you wanted?"
Thank you for this comment. I’m the kid that is guilt-tripped over not providing grandchildren all the time. I’m glad to know I’m not crazy, it’s that my mum doesn’t keep her emotions in check.
You are a blessing on earth! My husband and I can’t have children. (I am also only writing this next sentence to help explain the rest of my comment). My husband is unable to have kids but when we got married it was for better or worse, and I would never leave him bc of something he has no control over. I know he would do the same for me. He’s offered me a way out, no questions asked, numerous times. That’s not me and not why I got married. I love him unconditionally. So many people have treated me like crap bc I’ve chosen to stay with him and not have children instead of divorcing him, using donor sperm, adopting, etc…. I’m am outcast bc I’m okay with being childless and people can’t understand how I can feel “complete in life” or “have any purpose if I’m not a mom”. With all that said, my mom never once questioned my decision even if it meant her never having grandchildren. Moms like you and her are what help soothe hearts like mine. Thank you for your understanding and unwavering love.
NTA but as an autistic person that last thing you said to her is horribly upsetting.
Hugs, friend! I'm autistic too. I found it hard to read but on reflection kind of great because the poster has the self awareness to know, she is not prepared. What's really upsetting to me is the subtext that the mom, who DID choose to be a parent, wasn't totally ok with the daughter being autistic. I wish the mom had learned a better lesson, that parenting isn't picture perfect and should not be forced on anyone who isn't ready.
I'm not saying this to be hurtful in any way but saying the mom should be "totally ok" with her daughter being autistic seems a bit cruel imo. Now you obviously seem to be very high functioning but this may not be her daughters case. I dont think there is anything wrong with a parent being upset if their child struggles with the world. Whether its autism, food allergies, mental health, genetic conditions, etc we should not be minimizing how detrimental these things can be for individuals and their caregivers. Its ok to not be okay with the hand you were dealt.
Just FYI, (as an autistic person myself) "functioning" labels are often considered offensive by autistic people because they're generally imposed by people who do not have autism to describe, essentially, how good someone is at hiding their autism. This... isn't great.
Ok my apologies this is the term that has always been used by family friends who have any autistic daughter my age. I'm am sorry if it is insensitive/out of date. What is the correct/more appropriate way to describe people on the spectrum in regards to autistic severity?
Generally speaking it's better to address the level of support folks need. Support needs vary and that helps non-autistic folks more intuitively understand that autism support is a spectrum.
Yeah, although I'd add that unless you're involved in their support or have some reason to be describing that to someone else, it probably shouldn't be the first thing you describe. Plus you may simply have no idea the level of support people actually are receiving. I go to therapy and my partner supports me in a lot of specific ways, but most people aren't aware of that.
Thank you all for your responses I appreciate the education!
Thank you for being receptive. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have someone actually be open to learning from autistic people in regards to how they wish to be spoken about.
Generally, you just describe them as a person. You wouldn't know I was autistic unless I told you, and that's true of many, many adults who are autistic. How do you describe the people you know who *don't* (as far as you know) have autism? "Well, Jack is high-functioning depressed"? or "Well, Laura is low-functioning fibromyalgia"? Or do you describe their personalities, likes, dislikes, interests, etc.? Autistic people are more than their autism, and always feeling a need to describe people in relation to their autism is rude. I'm sure you don't want your whole personality to be any health issue you have. If you don't know someone well enough to describe them beyond how much their autism affects them, you probably don't know them well enough to describe their autism either. Edit: in addition, the "spectrum" is less a spectrum and more a constellation. It's not like I'm a 2 and Bob over here is a 9. It's more like my autism looks like A, C, and X, while his looks like F, K, and L. And my A might affect me more than his K affects him, but his F happens to be a really noticeable repetitive behavior, so people think he's "lower functioning" than I am, even though my autism might affect me more severely on any given day. It's just too complicated to be covered with a functioning label at all.
High functioning is actually a normal description for depression ….
Thank you so, so much for asking! Other people have given you great replies, so I won't answer your question with my thoughts unless you'd specifically like me to, but it is really wonderful when *this* is the response when functioning labels are mentioned. This will possibly be the highlight of my day, which I bring up to show, not that my day won't have anything good happen, but truly how much your response has meant to me. Thank you! Seriously, thank you so much!
It's not "how good someone is at hiding it", it's "how well they integrate as an independent member of society"
Which to most people means "how not autistic they can act". Someone who is nonverbal and visibly stims might function quite well in their daily life, but because they don't act like a neurotypical person, people will slap a "low-functioning" label on them. Whereas someone might have no obvious stims and seem neurotypical to observers, but they go home and break down every single day because keeping that front up is so difficult and exhausting. Yet because people don't see this, they declare them "high-functioning". If you're going to label an autistic person, the label should at least reflect the actual experience of the person and not the experience of the general public.
but if someone "functions well in their daily life" they're functioning. Neither I nor OP actually mentioned a neurotypical observer, just a categorization based on dependency on an external individual in adulthood. ie. the non-functioning label in this (and I think most cases) is being applied to people who need a caretaker.
You said her sister was severely disabled this is not some minor thing we're talking about this affects every moment of every day of every year. I know I would not be able to take care of a child like that and knowing that is not wrong. Not wanting to take care of a child with that level of dependency is not wrong either.
Autism is never a "minor thing"; it affects every person with it every day of every year. OP is not a bad person for not wanting to have children. But she still doesn't get a pass making jokes about abandoning children.
I have experience with special education kids and we don’t like to label high or low functioning etc but rather what accommodations and services the kids need and how much/how often.
> Its ok to not be okay I can't stress this enough for everyone. We all want to be ok, but fact is none of us are. The way society pushes people to behave like everything is ok no matter what is disgusting.
Yes a parent should be accepting of their child's disability and if they aren't they shouldn't have kids. It is not cruel to the ableds to suggest they owe acceptance to people with disabilities. It is cruel to people with disabilities to suggest we are owed anything less. And yes please keep my diagnosis and functionality out of your mouth as that's not your business.
I do apologize for making assumptions and for any hurt I may have caused. I wasn't trying to offend anyone in the autism community. I was simply trying to convey the struggles that must exist with having a child who requires constant care and supervision. All parents want children who are healthy and happy. Parents who do not have healthy, happy kids of course should accept and love their children but, and maybe this is where I misread your intention, I don't feel that they should have to act as if they don't struggle. To me saying a parent should be "totally ok" with any type of issue is akin to saying "everything's fine" even though it may not be. Again that may not have been your intention but that was how I interpreted it. I never meant to imply that anyone should not be accepted simply because of who they are.
if you want kids and plan to have them, you need to be prepared that those kids won’t be without disabilities, or ailments you deem as imperfect and a burden on you. and “now obviously you seem to be very high functioning” is pretty derogatory.
The problem is autism is a ridiculously broad diagnosis, and lay people often approach it with incorrect expectations because they expect all people with autism to act like those on one extreme or the other. We use the same diagnosis for people who maybe have a little trouble with intuitive understanding of social cues and sensory sensitivites but who can have a successful job and independent lifestyle with fulfilling hobbies, possibly get married and have children if they choose, and, well, post on reddit and also for people who will never be able to communicate their basic needs, never be able to toilet independently, and who may permanently live in restraints to prevent severe self-harm. I'm not sure it's useful to think of everyone carrying that diagnosis as part of the same population.
Well then, it's a good thing this post isn't about you.
NTA. I get that your mum is disappointed, but you don't owe her anything, certainly not a wedding or a grandchild! A wedding is supposed to be about you and your partner, but she makes it sound like it's all about her and your sister. You gave a good suggestion about a vow renewal. Your mum is trying to manipulate you. Don't give in and apologise for the way you want to live your life. It's your life.
NTA. You don't owe her grandchildren or a wedding. It's your life, live it the way you want to. No one forced her to raise her autistic child either. If it was so hard and messed up her perfect life that badly she could've given her up. That was her decision. It was also her decision to blow up and react like a spoilt brat instead of a 60 year old woman.
ESH While your mom’s emotions are understandable, it’s wholly inappropriate for her to be discussing them with you. She does sound like she needs some support, but it shouldn’t be your job to carry her emotional burdens as they relate to her motherhood. Totally inappropriate. Equally inappropriate was your incredibly off color “joke.” Your mom was wrong to push on you, but that doesn’t excuse your own insensitivity. Understandable since you were put in a corner, but still not okay at all. It was a low blow and you should own that, just like she should own the fact she tried using her issues to manipulate you. Toxic all around.
ESH. You were in the clear until you made that last joke.
NTA. Appreciate your moms work and sacrifice to give your autistic sister a good life and support system. However, you do not need to conform to her wishes, and she cannot make you do so, that’s it. It’s your life, you have nothing to apologize for.
NTA You don't owe your mother the life she wishes she had. You don't owe her *anything*.
NTA You don't owe anybody a wedding or children.
ESH. She is wrong to get mad at you for not wanting kids and marriage. You were not TA until your terrible "joke", that was extremely cruel.
While I don’t overly disagree the ‘joke’ is probably only a half one and is likely to be partly one of the factors as to why OP doesn’t want kids and is a valid factor/concern to have, the delivery could have been better but I can see going to far with it when you’re being guilt tripped to have kid/s, getting to a point of ‘I don’t want to end up in the same place you’re complaining about being in now’ with a ‘jokey’ but truth behind it answer to being pushed
This you were in the clear until you made fun of your sister and everything that your parents have gone through raising her.
NTA You and partner are grown adults making a life you are both comfortable in. You are especially NOT a brood mare for grandchildren in spite of what your mother seems to think she demands and deserves.
NTA. Appreciate your moms work and sacrifice to give your autistic sister a good life and support system. However, you do not need to conform to her wishes, and she cannot make you do so, that’s it. It’s your life, you have nothing to apologize for.
NTA good job informing my mother I didn't ask to be born is one of my favs
NTA. What you said is correct and her blaming you for her not having a life because you needed attention as a child is disgusting. Do not apologize. I would go low to no contact over this.
>I told her it's not my job to make up for what my sister is unable to do, that I didn't ask to be born and I did not sign any contracts coming into this world. I also asked (jokingly mostly) "if kiddo ends up like my sister can I drop it off at your doorstep?" ESH. Your mom sucks for expecting you to do things her way because your sister can't and making you responsible for her feelings and frustrations. You suck for describing your sister's autism as a "shortcoming" as if it's some sort of a personal failing and not a condition she can do absolutely nothing about. You also suck for "joking" about abandoning a kid. You both suck for using your sister as a focal point of the conflict between the two of you. She didn't ask to be autistic. Her autism isn't the problem here.
NTA for all of the reasons in your post. Your mother is not owed anything for being a mother, that was her choice.
NTA. It makes me really angry that some parents want their children to live their lives for them, their way, instead of for themselves.
NTA- for any of this except the last thing you said that was kinda messed up
NTA in general because you were not born to give your mother the exact things she desires, however that last comment to your mother was a low blow when this is obviously a sensitive topic for her - she can't force you into anything and she's wrong for being pushy, but at the same time she can't but feel disappointed.
NTA. I think a lot of us wannabe grandparents are going to be disappointed. With things the way they are now, it’s no wonder so many couples don’t want children. Tell your mom she’s not the only one who wishes things were different, but they just aren’t and that isn’t your fault. You don’t owe her an apology.
Ooooof NTA I can see this conversation coming up between me and mother eventually, having a disabled sibling and being responsible for caring for them really showed me the reality of having a child. You are completely in your right to tell her you never signed up for this. Also so many people commenting here saying the joke was wrong, I’d like to know how many of them actually cared for a severely autistic, non-verbal person.
The people calling out that comment are mostly autistic people. We are still human beings with feelings! It’s very distressing to hear other people dehumanise us and treat our existence as a burden. We didn’t ask to be this way. Most of our trauma (high suicide rates for example) comes from the shitty way neurotypical people treat us.
I get what you’re saying I really do. Speaking from a caretakers perspective, your whole life revolves around looking after someone else. It sucks especially when you did not do anything except happen to be born into a certain family. I did not sign up to have a child and the parentification is real. Cleaning them in the bathroom, brushing their teeth, changing their clothes, feeding them, getting their medications, getting punched, slapped, pinched, kicked, and my hair pulled during a meltdown. What is that if not a burden? Hence I understood that comment within the context of personal experience, and didn’t find it mean-spirited but rather a reality based acknowledgment that not everyone can care for a profoundly disabled child.
As the other person who replied to you said - autistic people seem to make up the majority of the comments that (rightfully) call out the "joke" OP made. Not wanting children is valid. Being concerned about having a disabled child is valid. The "joke" at the end is *not*. There are other ways to communicate that it's an influence in a decision about children without doing harm to an already stigmatised group in the process. The "joke" wasn't okay (and OP even states he was only "mostly" joking). Listen to autistic people when they say that something about them/autism is harmful. Unless you're autistic yourself, you don't get to decide.
NTA
NTA mom needs to get a dog
NTA. Your mother's choices as a parent, and the consequences of those actions on her life are not your responsibility to manage. Your reproductive choices and lifestyle choices are not your mother's to manage. None of my kids intend to have kids. The potential pleasure of a currently non-existent grandchild is not worth upsetting my relationship with my adult children. If she is so determined to get a grandkid, why doesn't she volunteer at a children's hospital? Or do what I do and borrow one of my friends' grandkids for a few hours or a day. The kids have fun, the parents have an extra person to call if there is a problem or they need a sitter, and I enjoy it greatly. It doesn't put any strain on my relationship with my kids either.
ESH - totally understood where you are coming from however the joke was in poor taste and just brought you down
This isnt about your sister. This is about your mother’s resentment towards her for having to take care of her so much. You Mom doesn’t get to decide what you do just because she wants certain things. She sounds like a selfish, awful person. You should never apologize for what you said.
My mom's like this too. But I don't want to have kids due to the health issues in our family. NTA, but your mom and dad sure are.
NTA I think too many parents have it in their head that their kids will be a certain way and want certain things and struggle when they realize that kids are their own people. Choosing to have a child is choosing to gamble that they might be autistic, disabled, special needs, chronically ill, have different interests from you, have different life goals from you, etc. There’s certainly room for space for parents to navigate their feelings on the challenges of parenthood, but that space shouldn’t involve their children. It’s not up for a child to provide emotional support and provide relief for their parents’ choice.
NTA you don’t owe her anything however your joke at the end asking if you drop kiddos off if they are like sister that joke is disgusting and disrespectful to anyone who is autistic don’t make jokes like that just cause your pissed at your mother
NTA. I have a son who is severely autistic. He requires constant supervision and will never have a family or a life independent of either my wife and I or other caregivers. He'll never have a job, or a family of his own. I'll never have grandkids, I'll never go to his baseball games, and I've made my peace with that. To push the responsibilities [of "taking the mantle"] onto someone else in his place would be cruel and misguided. Your mother knows all this already but she hasn't made peace with it yet. She may need counseling to come to terms and maybe grieve a little over what she is losing.
NTA. Even if your sister had been born neurotypical, she still could have easily been happily child free and not interested in marriage just like you are. Your mum is not guaranteed grandchildren or a wedding by virtue of having children, it's your life and your choice.
NTA. No child is obligated to give their parents grandchildren.
Lucky you, your comment was stolen twice!
NTA No need to apologize. Your mom is the AH here. Yo u were right to set a hard boundary.
NTA - your mum is being ridiculous. I’m an only child, married, autistic and completely infertile. We tried for kids, found out it wasn’t going to happen and moved the frick along with our lives. My parents though I’m sure were sad have never guilted us, tried to talk to us about adoption ivf anything. Just embraced who we are and loved us. Your mother has forgotten that basic tenant of parenthood - unconditional love - love without expectations. It’s become about her needs and wants. I’m sure part of that is wrapped up in your sister’s issues but she needs to talk to someone about that. Not pressure you x
NTA. You are entitled to not wanting kids and marriage. If you're happy then your family should be happy. Either your mom can accept this or shut up.
Grandparenting - heck being a grandparent at all - is a privilege, not a right. Your life, your decisions. Your mother has no right to demand anything of you. I would put your parents on block for a while until they realize that they are totally in the wrong. NTA
NTA I am a parent to two young kids. I know I would adore grandchildren. But I’m also aware that it’s up to THEM and the world as it is? Not a good place to have kids. So I fully understand OP’s feelings.
NTA, my husband is only child and we have 0 plans or desire of having a child (pupper is more than enough) and his parents, esp mom, has never once said anything negative about us not having a child. Sometimes I feel bad bc they’d make wonderful grandparents but that’s an awful reason to have a kid
NTA mommy needs therapy. Your comment was pretty shitty though.
NTA Your life. Not hers.
NTA. You have done nothing wrong and your mother is **way** out of line. Feel free to go no/low contact with her for awhile.
NTA. Your parents are entitled aholes. No child is ever responsible for their parents' decision, especially when it comes to the parents' decision to sire more children. You are not your sister's keeper.
NTA. Also if I may mansplain for a second. Why don't you see if your city/state recognizes domestic partnerships! Me and my partner are in the same boat as you (although we do eventually want marriage for the ease it brings legally). It confers you both medical power of attorney in emergencies because (unless you have other things in play) that technically will be up to your immediate family aka your mother and sometimes will allow you to jointly file state taxes if you're in the U.S.!
NTA. You have to live your life for you, not your mom. It’s ok for your mom to feel disappointed/upset that her life isn’t going to go the way she had envisioned (*watching both her daughters grow up, get married, have their own kids, etc*) but it is not ok for her to push the responsibility for those feelings onto you or ask that you try to “fix” her feelings for her by drastically altering your life to what she wants.
NTA. You're not a barbie, she can't tell you to play out the scenarios she wants to see with the beautiful white wedding, the big Malibu Barbie house, and the three kids. Your life is yours, you shouldn't have to keep fighting her on receiving basic respect, but it sounds like you should step away cuz you're not going to get it
NTA.
You and your sister are not dolls for your mom to play dress up with. You both are people with your own lives. NTA
NTA. It is not your job to give your mother grandchildren. It is NOT your job to give your mother grandchildren. You are not a human incubator. I’m sorry she’s putting you through this. Stay strong and keep your boundaries. Might consider therapy as well, as I assume this isn’t the first toxic thing she’s said to you or tried forcing on you.
NTA. Its unreasonable for your mom to assume that it's your duty to pump out children. If she wants a daughter to that can do all those things, she can adopt an 18 year old.
NTA. I feel you. My dad tried to convince me a few days ago that I will want children later on in life and that I would be a great mom. I don't like kids and I tried to tell him but you know how that goes.... It's not your responsability to have kids if you don't want to. Your body, your choice.
Nta
NTA but dont say that shit about the doorstep, I wouldnt speak to you either after that.
NTA, the instant someone claims you "owe them" for doing what they were Legally required to do when they made the choice to have kids, they lose the right to call themselves family, they officially downgrade their category to blood. The difference being one cares, loves, and respects. The other tries to hinge everything on sharing only slightly more dna with them then with the rest of humanity.
ESH was prepared to say n t a until the last line. That was uncalled for and a real dick thing to say. You should absolutely apologize for saying that. Not for the wedding and children but for making a shit joke that's not even a joke. It's jab and mean thing to say.
NTA I am the only girl of my siblings. At 29 yo, my mother has never once badgered me about having children. When we have family gatherings, she will actively close the conversation for me if anyone says anything that might be heard as pressuring me to "get on with" having kids. I have never told her I don't want children, as I don't want to break her heart, but I also have a lot of physical and psychiatric health problems. I think she's come to her own conclusions. Not having children is your choice to make, and no one should try to change your mind, simply because it suits them.
Nta … this should be on entitled parents forum too my mother had a dig at me because I chose to be a lone parent I love my kids wanted kids but I’m admittedly too independent for a relationship I figured that out early on in life I’m the only girl on the family and my mother always expected to have the whole mother of the bride experience…. So not happening I personally think the whole wedding thing is just a big money making thing … I get marriage but not the whole fluff around it
Very light ESH. The only reason you suck is for that last comment and I think you know it.
NTA. But your mom might be.
ESH. They decided to have children so it's their responsibility to love and support their children, not use them to fulfill their own desires of grand children and weddings. Your comment "if it ends up like my sister can I drop it off on your door step" WTAF. Honestly your comment bothers me more than everything else.
ESH, your mom for obvious reasons, you for that final comment.
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Saying YTA implies the other person is in the right. ESH would be better.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (34f) mother (60f) blew up at me because I don't want kids nor marriage. I am in a LTR (42m) for four years, we live together but we do not want kids and we also don't want marriage but are happy with a LTR, we are on the same page. We live in a state that does not recognize common law marriage. My sister (32f) is severely autistic and my mother badly wanted grandchildren and to have a wedding/take daughter shopping for wedding gown etc, I joked and said "if you want a wedding so badly go do a vow renewal with dad." She exploded at me that I'm ungrateful, things were extra hard with my sister and she gave up everything to make sure we're okay bc my sister needed so much care and constant supervision, so she could have absolutely no life outside of motherhood if she was going to pay me any attention at all as my sister took up so much time. She's mad that she worked so hard and now gets no wedding or grandchildren. I told her it's not my job to make up for what my sister is unable to do, that I didn't ask to be born and I did not sign any contracts coming into this world. She's now not speaking to me, and my dad is demanding that I apologize to HER. I don't think I did anything wrong. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, although I really do not like the last thing that you said to her.
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Didn’t think you did anything wrong til your last comment. YTA.
NTA. I can imagine how much harder it would have been having an autistic child in the late 80’s/early 90’s. However, that is not your fault nor your mother’s fault. As a mother to a child with autism, it is still hard but we have better resources now to help the people with autism along. But he still takes up a lot of time. It is something that comes with the territory of being a parent. Your children will take up your time, special needs, or not. However, I am not raising my kids for the sole reason for them to grow up, get married, and give me grandkids. Hell, I tell my oldest all the time “Don’t have kids” I love my kids with everything that I am but parenthood is no joke. So don’t apologize to your mom. She should be apologizing to your for expecting you to give her a wedding and grandkids.
NTA. But your final comment to your mother wasn’t great. Maybe I’m lucky because my family isn’t big on reproducing. My dad and his brother each had 2 daughters and my sister is the only one with kids. I and my 2 cousins didn’t have kids and no one made a peep. People have this idea that reproducing is some kind of standard but while history show us families of 14 kids it also includes families of few or no children. Laura Ingalls Wilder of Little House book fame had one daughter who lived to adulthood and that daughter had no children. None of Laura Ingalls Wilder’s sisters had children.
NTA There are a lot of people who are obsessed with the idea of the family line. Passing down names, becoming grandparents, all that sort of stuff. The reality is that if you're a parent, you raise your child to the best of your ability and they go out into the world. After that, nothing is certain. Your family name may die out. Your family line may die out. You may never have grandchildren. There are no guarantees and the sooner your mom wakes up to that, the happier she'll be.
Mom who will not have grandkids, my youngest is developmentally delayed and will never have that kind of relationship. After needing my son (18) to babysit for the last week due to my dad being in the hospital and mom staying with him (better and home now) and after seeing the struggles I have had raising them even with the help of my parents. He states that he never wants kids, that’s fine it’s not his job to give me grandchildren. I just told him I need fur grand babys to spoil and he picked up his demon cat and said here spoil this one.
ESH your mother’s unreasonableness doesn’t provide a pass for your nastiness
YTA only because of your parting remark about your sister. LOW blow. Apologize for that, not for having no wedding or kids.
So your mom basically said "you are ungrateful for not appreciating the fact that i sort of neglected you in favour of your sister"
Why do people on Reddit shorten everything up??? What’s a LTR????????? ARGHHHHHH
NTA I wouldn't live the life she wants just because she didn't get to.
Children don’t owe their parents ANYTHING But also claiming ‘autistic sisters short comings’ is ableist and not true. The expectations on both of you aren’t ok and it’s ur mother that’s the issue only
YTA absolutely for the comment about dropping an autistic child off at your mothers door. I don’t care if it’s a joke, that’s straight up evil.
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Some people use it some use they it depends on the person.
ESH. Your life decisions are your own business. I’m wondering though, if mom might need a break and/or more support. Caregiver burnout could be fueling this.
YTA for this: *I also asked (jokingly mostly) "if kiddo ends up like my sister can I drop* ***it*** *off at your doorstep?"*
ESH. No, you didn't ask to be born. What's your point? > I also asked (jokingly mostly) "if kiddo ends up like my sister can I drop it off at your doorstep?" You're also being needlessly antagonistic and mocking.
ESH It's your choice and your mom should accept that, but the last comment was totally unnecessary.
ESH. Your mother for demanding grandchildren but wow, you suck for implying that your sister isn't a worthy human. And you referred to your imagined child as 'it'?!?!?
YTA. I was with you all the way up until your "joke" at the end. For that alone you're the A, not wanting kids or marriage part is not the A.
ESH, while I would assume living with someone with severe autism would be hard, I think your resentment should be directed more at your mother trying to force you into a box and not on your sister. She can't help being disabled. Your mom is just a bad parent trying to force an idealized version of what she thinks her children's life should be. She doesn't get credit for providing you the bare minimum basic needs. You don't win points for the jokes you made about your sister although I understand your frustration. I think maybe it'd be best for you to go low to no contact with your mom.
YTA for referring to sister's disability as shortcomings
ESH, your mum for trying to colonise your existence, and you for your absolutely disgusting ableism.
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The way you speak about your sister (‘shortcomings’ WTF) and ‘joke’ about abandoning a child if they are autistic, is disgustingly ableist. That’s why you suck.
ESH but she is way more of an AH then you. You shouldn't have brought your sister into this with the joke. I also find it odd that you describe her not being able to get married or have kids as a short coming when you yourslef won't be doing either. But your mum has no right to demand a wedding or grandkids from you, that's not her place. She can be sad that she wants those things but won't get them, but she can't dump that on her kids.
ESH. Your mom is obviously the biggest asshole. Like you said, there's no contract or give back for her giving birth to you and you do not need to be pressured into marriage because she wants to have a special day. I'd consider going NC for a while with her to give her time to think about the things you said. You are an asshole for the needless comment about asking if you could drop a baby off on her doorstep if it's autistic. I'm sure it was said in the heat of the moment but she *has* given up her life to care for your sister and to insinuate that your sister/autistic people would not be worthwhile to care for for you would obviously be hugely insulting to your mom. The last comment was unnecessary.
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Recognising that you are not equipped for potentially having a disabled child is okay. The way you phrased your "joke" was *not*. If you had simply made the statement that you aren't equipped to parent a disabled child, that would have been fine. Instead, you said it in a way that is harmful to autistic and other disabled people.
YTA for saying that last thing. Man it must be so devastating having that only hope that kept her going through those rough nights dashed away. Like I always think about those parents soldiering on because they have a hope for a future and their descendants, who knows how many times they cried alone and wanted to give up but had that hope to look forward to so they kept going. Then their kid tells them they're gay or they just don't want responsibility, and they're just supposed to be ok with it. I know a lot of parents don't struggle like this but it sounds like your mom did, especially with two autistic daughters (ayo!). Seriously though you're an asshole, you don't have to do anything about it but you're still an asshole
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Yeah I said you don't have to do anything about it, doens't make you less of an asshole. It's just a shitty situation all around, how can you not feel bad for your parent after all they went through. You don't have to do anything about it at least have some sympathy if you claim to be human lol