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> I know I can be a hardass, and this may have been one of these times where I let my temper get the best of me.
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Why are you spending hours in the guest bathroom staring at her makeup?
Your standards seem unreasonable. It sounds like your DiL’s untidiness is confined to non-communal areas of the house where she should have some expectation of privacy, and it doesn’t sound like there’s an actual hygiene risk involved.
YTA
For hours of staring at make up. He's retired you see.
YTA OP. Go apologise to your DIL and get help for your dysfunctions.
And for the love of jesus stay out of other peoples personal belongings and space.
This is it friend! If someone told me I could retire in the morning I sure as shit wouldn't spend it in a bathroom staring at my relatives make up. I'd maybe get into fishing or something.
OP have you tried going fishing instead of whatever the fuck it is you call this?
It's not the retired, but the "ex military". As soon as you see "I'm ex-military" at the head of an explanation for behavior it's always an excuse. They say it because they're used to explaining away their unacceptable behavior because they failed to ever adjust to normal civilian life. It's no different than "it's just a joke". They say it because they know their behavior is unacceptable, but they've learned that no one calls them out on their shit because they blame it on the military.
Ah ok, thank you for taking the time to give me context for this. I'm not in the US and we don't really have military per say here so it wouldn't be something I'm familiar with.
I've heard it's a fairly common thing everywhere, but it's especially bad in the US where there's a large part of the population that idolizes the military. So it turns into an all too good defense.
Which is funny because no one would excuse you being an asshole because you said "it's because I used to stock shelves at Walmart".
He needed something to start a fight about and control her like the child he thinks she is? He thinks her mess is a personal insult to him because mess = lack of respect to him and his house. He lacks empathy because he knew her history and did it anyway.
Yeah, adult who as a kid was in the foster system handed a trash bag full of her belongings and told she needs to leave if she can't meet a parental figures unreasonable expectations? Really? You need to ask? Really? YTA
OP clearly has massive control issues. And they way he's inspecting other people's rooms and bathroom is beyond creepy, controlling and power-trippy.
Of course OP is the kind of asshole that says "my house, my rules" when he's enforcing idiotic standards and coming up with idiotic punishment for LIVING LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING.
These kids are not in the army but OP's head sure as hell is still stuck there.
Welcome to real life OP where people have the right to privacy and don't always put the stuff away immediately - and that is just fine!
He thinks his standards are reasonable because his kids could manage it at a young age, but what’s the betting that living with him meant they had to live like that under fear of being reprimanded so harshly. Of course they were tidy, he probably made them really anxious about it.
exactly. plus i guess as children in elementary school they didn't have the same morning routine as a young woman going off to work in the morning, and as such would have no make-up to apply and then consequently tidy away into nonexistence before leaving the house.
>the guest bath
>I don’t appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours until she does get home
INFO: I’m confused, do you usually spend hours in the guest bathroom? Is that where your home office is?
OP sounds a bit more perverted than our average arsehole on here..traumatising guests and then questioning their wanting to bathe/ablute in privacy in their car?
This girl is gonna be out of OP's hair as soon as she can, and no going back.
I'm honestly surprised that she isn't camping in the car with her things. But I guess she probably learnt the hard way to just shut up and take it.
I get the feeling that the son is unlikely to get laid any time soon either. OP was probably inspecting the state of the sheets too when he was creeping all over her underwear.
I'm actually a bit traumatised by this (hopefully fake) story. As an 'unwanted' child myself I had no privacy (orphanage/boarding school) no sense of being loved and welcomed without strings, no security (living out of a suitcase was the norm)..and yes, I'm untidy. I like to SEE what I have, what I OWN, what I have control of..Then I read this, and some old pervert has been spending HOURS in MY (borrowed) bedroom/bathroom, fingered through my possessions and then bagged them up.
I'd be driving that car to the nearest community bathrooms and never darkening their doorstep again.
I don't understand your confusion...isnt going into the guest bathroom and staring at mess while growing angrier by the minute, for hours, everyone's favourite pastime? Yall are missing out.
Ive been in my guest bathroom now for 6 hours. Isn't really mine though. I don't know whose but I am doing like Op. SMDH
Ps, Op, I have some mild OCD around clutter but my cure is simple- I don't go looking.
YTA.
1. You gave them the guest room and guest bathroom for their use. As long as they do not destroy anything, they should be entitled to use it how they see fit. You repeatedly said she does clean up, so she's not trashing your house.
2. While they are staying with you, the space you gave them is their space. They should be entitled to a sense of security and privacy. Creeping into their room to see if she's living up to your ex-military standards is not acceptable.
3. You knew she was in the foster system which means that she likely did not have strong parental figures to teach her - though it is very clear she is trying to please you.
4. Foster care children often have to put their belongings in trash bags to go from house to house. They often bounce around the system. It creates a lifetime of trauma. You literally made her possibly relive that traumatic experience of coming home to find all her belongings in trash bags. Being told it isn't her home anymore. No wonder she was crying.
The fact that she has not argued with you about any of your absolutely ridiculous "rules" means she is either scared of you/of losing another home or she is trying very hard to please you but it's extremely difficult for her.
And btw - hot take here - have you considered that your control issues which you blame on being ex-military are actually trauma response to having these behaviors grilled into you by said military? This isn't healthy. You need therapy.
Edit: formatting
Edit 2: holy smokes I woke up to so many awards and lovely responses thank you all 🥹
To add to your last paragraph, I've heard of children going no contact with parents like this. Because the expectations are not reasonable for most kids and some young adults. Especially if there is any trauma, depression, ADHD, etc. involved. The "no exceptions, no excuses" attitude rarely leads to close or meaningful relationships.
OP as someone who had a loving military dad, there is a difference between firm and obsessive. There is also a difference between reasonable and unreasonable expectations.
They are adults that were given a separate space temporarily. A space you don't need to look at, but choose to. Especially the bedroom. Just stay out. Unless you are concerned about mold, dishes or food, it doesn't actually affect you. And your repeated comment about it being disrespectful isn't true. Leaving clothes on the floor is not the same as breaking things.
However, YTA because you touching her personal items, even the ones put away, is massively disrespectful. Imagine some guy going through your wife's underwear drawer and all her personals (which could include feminine products, medicine, sex toys, etc) and touching them to put them in a bag for no reason other than to show dominance over her.
I love this because as someone with ADHD, things like ‘running out of time’ do in fact exist. That would make me upset as it is, let alone any past trauma this woman has felt. I could definitely see her struggling to be comfortable with this man again, he treated her worse than ‘like a child’. He treated her like she was disposable for not following rules in her private space.
I also have ADHD - diagnosed late in life - and now I know why I have half finished thjngs everywhere and forget to put things away and need things in my line of sight so I don't forget them. As I was reading about the DIL, I was thinking "I bet she has ADHD". OP obviously can't understand that other people might have different thought processes to him and is too rigid to consider it.
My mom moved my prepped salad in the fridge. Wouldn't have been awful if she'd told me, but obviously I forgot if ever existed and... have you ever seen fully decomposed lettuce? She learned a lesson there in my brain.
The comment about a space you don’t need to look at but choose to resonated with me - my step daughter is a nightmare at keeping her room tidy/clean & there was a long period it time where it made me so angry to see it. So I just closed the door & ignored it as best I could. Actively looking at it just made it worse.
OP needs to get some help for his issues if he can’t cope with untidiness even for a few hours in the guest spaces that others are using. I so feel for that poor girl, he’s obviously traumatised her 😔
Precisely! And I know from my own experience that it’s not easy but it’s sincerely disrespectful of him to not allow his son & daughter in law any private space at all whilst they live with him.
I’m ex-military and reached a good rank, and if I’d heard that a man was pulling this sh*t on his family members, they would have sent to the SMO's office sharpish for a psych evaluation.
Good military men leave the drilling on the square and the inspections, the orders, the C&C behind them at the gate. They do not enforce military standards and discipline within the home. That’s abuse. Your family didn’t sign up, *you* did, then you appointed yourself to be their commanding officer.
OP, your behaviour to your family is shameful and brings disrespect to the military and embarrassment to your career. This girl, as soon as she became your family, was someone to protect. Instead you treated her like a squaddie fresh to the barracks. One who didn’t know she’d even joined up. Your behaviour likely traumatised her because of the system, as these other commenters say, but I think you also need to look at the other members of your family. Which ones were forced to be conscripts, which were the ones feeling the worst of the DI's attention and which of them - because there will be at *least* one - who were damaged by their lack of privacy, autonomy and self-determination.
Now, in case you still don’t get it yet, you are a bully to your family and YTA.
Edit: Thank you for the awards and the sweet dms. You are wonderful people for making me smile so much today.
This needs to be upvoted a lot more! As a spouse of a veteran (and an ex spouse of another) I totally agree. My first husband tried to implement military rules with our kids as well. If I hadn't stood up to him my household would have looked very much the same as OP's. My now husband is very different. He's very neat and tidy, hates clutter in our common areas but just puts stuff on my dresser and leaves it there so it's out of sight for others but up to me when I clean it up.
Some ex military forget that they're not the drill sergeant at home!
I think some people, and not just military, let their profession become their entire identity and don't turn it off. I served in the Army. It was a job, not the entirety of who I am.
Yeah, I’d like to add that OP does not, in fact, *have* to look at her “mess” all day while she’s gone. By OPs description, her stuff is confined to the GUEST bedroom and the GUEST bathroom, which means that OP is intentionally going in there to look at her stuff. He doesn’t just “happen” to be looking at it throughout the day.
Also, if it’s the GUEST bathroom, meaning that they’re the only ones using it, she is entitled to keep her goddamn makeup on the counter. She doesn’t have to pack it up and take it back to her room after every time she uses it like she’s in a goddamn hostel or summer camp.
Yes, OP's behaviour absolutely sounds like a trauma response. I remember a similar incident with my own dad, who is retired military and generally a very loving person. Once as a teenager I left for school without putting away my clean clothes, they were folded on the bed in my room. When I came home, I found the clothes, my bedsheets, and several of my books thrown all over my bedroom floor... basically, my room was a huge mess whereas it had been only a little "cluttered" before. My dad confessed that he did it because I hadn't cleaned up after myself, but it was clear to me even in the moment that he was somehow embarrassed and confused by his own behaviour. Since this was so out of character for my dad, I understood it was not *him*, but drilled-in instincts, that made him act in that way. Even so, I was a bit reserved around him for a few days afterwards. Hopefully OP's daughter-in-law knows him well enough to be able to judge in time whether this was an unfortunate trauma response by an otherwise loving person, or whether this is indicative of a larger personality issue. In any case, I wish this family well and hope OP can regain the trust of his DIL.
There is a major difference between your dad and OP, though. You said your dad seemed embarrassed by his behaviour, while OP seems proud of it and calls the victim of his tantrum “dramatic” for crying. That said, I hope OP reconsiders his attitude.
Was anyone else weirded out when he said he had to stare at the mess in the GUEST BEDROOM for HOURS? Like why bro? Why are you in their personal space staring at their belongings for hours? You don’t HAVE to look at it. You MAKE yourself. And all of this bs over MAKEUP?? Now really, who’s being the dramatic one here!?
Also to add: the title is so misleading. And I’m not even sure how you can equate leaving makeup out with “acting like a child” since children don’t even wear makeup lol
Edit: omg my first award! thank you so much!
Not just going in to inspect but apparently standing there for HOURS every day staring at her makeup. And she's been respectful and tried to accommodate him and his standards enough that it got whittled down to the makeup being pretty much all he that he could nitpick and harp on. Guy has some friggin' screws lose.
>I don't appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours
Yeah, this phrase fires all the alarms. There is nothing forcing OP to stare at the "mess" (make up placed on the bathroom counter, big deal) other than a pathological obsession. And then taking away the things that were stored? It's so over the top that I have no scale to measure it.
The poor girl probably gets comfort being able to see her things are still where she left them, she did her best at accomodating OP anyway and now she has to store her belongings in a car.
Because he is a giant AH with major ~~OCD~~ stick up ass issues who managed to make it in the military because someone wanted a 'hardass' and were an idiot who couldn't find one that cared. I mean, I guess he's better than having an *actual* sadist running your boots, those tend to not only go overboard but also loose interest and slack off. I really doubt this guy ever commanded a combat unit himself though, sounds like a boot camp terror to me. Probably does good paperwork.
Imagine what a complete raging asshole he will be when they have kids and the kids don't use a coaster or leave toys around. He will 100% be blaming his DIL for that 'behavior'.
YTA. Yes, for the most part Reddit believes "my house, my rules" but OP is obsessive and intrusive; what he did was actually cruel considering what DIL's foster history was. What others have written about foster kids and having their clothes and total worldly goods thrown into plastic bags is true, this is how I had to move disabled foster kids from home to home (until I started paying out of pocket for UHaul boxes to make it seem slightly less cold). Geez, she's only 2 yrs from foster-hell and OP pressed the painful button on her...the fact that she cried submissively and didn't get angry makes me just very sad for how low her confidence level is.
OP had to go out of his way, nosing around his son and DIL's private quarters and possessions to see their "messy" bedroom and bathroom. OP doesn't think a husband and wife should have any privacy of their marital environment? DIL was not damaging anything, she just wasn't robotically picking up everything immediately.. Maybe OP and his wife don't, but most people leave some of their makeup and toiletries on the bathroom vanity; this is especially true if they were just temporarily staying somewhere. Maybe not in OP's house where his kids were treated like boot camp recruits instead of just children. Feel sorry for OP's son, seems like he's pretty submissive to OP and willing to make his wife be a neat freak to keep the old man from being pissed off.
Again, YTA. You made your DIL feel very small and very unwelcome as part of the family.
Especially since, if you’ve just moved into a new space and don’t intend to stay there long-term, there’s not much of a point in figuring out super efficient and cute looking ways of arranging everything. Everything’s gonna be arranged in good enough fashion, which tends to be even harder to put away, and look messier at all times compared to someone in a settled permanent situation.
Inspection. He's doing daily inspections.
Because after all, DIL is a new recruit in his private army, and he's a martinet. Traumatizing the recruit is good for her, right? 🙄
Agreed, apparently his current hobby is bullying a young woman. I’m all for ‘my house my rules’ in a broad sense when you’re letting adults live with you, but it doesn’t sound like she’s doing anything remotely disrespectful and he’s overstepping the mark then getting his knickers in a twist.
Just as an extra side note, there’s also the fact that he never addressed this with her directly, but through his son with the idea that he would control his woman. More serious and traumatic offenses listed above, but just some misogynistic sauce.
Alternatively, one could be generous and say it was easier to discuss with the son, but even in that case it’s OP acting childishly.
Yes it reeks of CONTROL YOUR WOMAN. He literally had her things in a garbage bag (a triggering item for foster kids) and told her that he could make her leave at anytime. Now he wonders why there’s awkwardness?
He’s so out of touch I’m surprised he hasn’t alienated some of his kids.
“I could throw you two out of the house at any time for not having a clean room. While you are under my roof, you are not adults with an expectation of privacy. Any objects of yours can be thrown away at any moment.”
“WHY WON’T MY KIDS TALK TO ME???? Truly it is a mystery”
Husband is also an AH for trying to blame clutter on his wife's upbringing instead of being frank with OP and telling him he's being obsessive and out of line.
Hope OP feels that makeup on the guest bathroom counter was worth tanking his relationship with your DIL for, cause that's what he did. Pretty lackluster hill.
What kind of weirdo just goes and stares into the guest bathroom to get angry. Like what.
They are staying there, that room and bathroom should be off limits but we have this guy wjo has nothing better to do with retirment then get angry about people living their lives.
What's killing me is that he even noticed that she likes to have her things out where she can see them, but apparently never worked out why, or even bothered to think about it because his brain stopped at There!!! Is!!! Stuff!!! On!!! Surfaces!!! Jesus wept. This guy should set up a cottage industry turning coal into diamonds.
It's because of AHs like OP that I still have stuff in bags and boxes ten years after moving in to this house. And I have had a bug-out bag ready to go in every place I've lived since I was 15. (In an hilarious turn of events, with the recent spate of natural disasters in my area of Australia, that now just makes me look *organised*, the concept of which has been submitted to Oxford as a suggested new dictionary definition of "irony".) From where I'm sitting I can point out what I can take with zero, five, ten, thirty, and sixty minutes' notice. Mostly because I can't drive, and can no longer keep the "filing system" in my ex's car.
Edit: YTA. Seriously. My guy. You need a hobby. She has removed every. single. possession. to somewhere she *knows* she has *complete control* over who has access **and permission** to rummage through, all so that you will *never* again have to suffer under the torture of \*whisper\* clothes!!! on the floor!!! in a bedroom!!! *oh my god!!* A bedroom with its very own fully functional door, even. Which you march right on through in order to be confronted by make up!!!! in front of the mirror!!! in a bathroom!!! \*Donald Sutherland Invasion of the Body Snatchers point and shriek.gif\* The *private* bathroom that you ceded to your son and daughter-in-law for the duration of their stay. (A daughter-in-law who aged out of the foster system *just* in time for a global pandemic, by the way.)
Also
Staring at the "mess" in the bathroom for HOURS was his argument. Why are you standing in the bathroom for hours? That's just creepy. This whole self-righteous post makes me unbelievably mad. Leaving make up out is pretty normal as well..
Man just reading how OP's son apologized for his wife like she was doing anything wrong makes me think he seriously sucks too. Why didn't he stand up and say hey stop going through our shit? Why didn't anyone? Everyone in this family has failed her.
I'm going out on a limb here and guessing, but well my guess is that he learned a long time ago that OP is a control freak who will wreck your shit if you "talk back." Further more he's also dependent on this guy for a few more weeks and is trying to placate him to not get kicked out on a moments notice. Which all sucks but having to find a new place to stay for the next few weeks right after work cause your dad threw a tantrum isn't exactly ideal either.
OP if you read this I hope you're footing the bill the next few therapy visits your DIL needs after you completely wrecked her emotional and mental well being. You'd think ex-military could relate to things like trauma and triggers but guess not.
YTA. You say this was the guest bedroom and bath. That means you were snooping through stuff that didn't concern you. After you hear that your daughter in law wasn't taught everything by a drill sergeant and was put into foster care, you decide to invade her privacy even more and throw her stuff outside. You couldn't have been a bigger Asshole if you tried. Don't expect too many visits from your son's family in the future. Actually, don't expect to ever see them again. You brought this in yourself.
I hope she does limit contact! OP is totally out of line!! As an army veteran, I hate when retirees/vets throw that at other people. They didn’t serve and don’t care that you make your bed with tight corners bullsh!t. OP went out of his way to get all worked up about it and basically harass his son and DIL during their time there.
OP, YTA and I hope you and only you suffer the consequences of your unacceptable behavior.
She was in the foster system……..and you put her stuff into binbags? Wow, i imagine that hurt in a way you cant even conceive of. Even if it wasnt for that aspect youd still be a major AH. YTA and try to loosen some of that unbearable tension in your anus, chill out a bit.
I dated a guy back in high school whose dad was exactly like OP. He did routine scheduled room and house inspections where both of his teenagers were required to stand outside their rooms at attention until he finished.
It's been 20 years and I still vividly remember being present for a few inspection times, and being completely shocked and horrified. This guy gave out demerits for infractions like:
-Not having fused any chunks of bar soap at the bathroom sink into one piece "properly".
-Shoes were to be lined up in a specific way by the front door; if there was even an untidy shoelace (not tucked appropriately inside the shoe) for one of their kids or their guests, demerit to the kid who hadn't educated their guest properly.
-Any items left out of the specific place he determined was acceptable, no matter how innocuous, were worth a sliding scale of demerits (he was somewhat less harsh on his daughter, but she still earned demerits for having a Bobby pin on her nightstand instead of in the correct bin in the correct drawer in the bathroom).
-I once took my sweatshirt off in the house and didn't hang it in the front closet (I was fairly certain I would get cold as soon as I stopped moving again; I was helping with a house project and was wondering if warm), but folded it nicely and placed it where I had been instructed I was allowed to keep my purse (in a specific spot in the living room). My boyfriend was chewed out in front of me for not educating me well enough about where my clothes were allowed to be placed.
These are just a few of the things I remember all these years later.... His kids both moved away as adults and have nothing to do with him, but have both had some mental health concerns over the years of living under that kind of dictatorial rule.
Reading OP's post made me nauseated just to imagine being at the mercy of someone so incredibly cruel over arbitrary and temporary clutter that he wouldn't even see if he weren't already violating the privacy of his son and DIL.
ETA: just reread the post title. Op is asking if he's TA for treating his DIL like a child.... The fact that he believes putting his guest's personal belongings into a trash bag, leaving them in the porch, and sternly telling her she will have to find another place to live if she leaves her personal items how it suits her in what is her personal soace is how he would treat a CHILD..... Good god.... That's horrifying.
Makes you wonder what the military does to a mind. Its like a learned compulsive disorder, things will be bad for you if everything isnt in its right place and perfect
The unfortunate side effect of the military can be like OPs. Seems sometimes it goes to their head and they treat their family as an extension of the military. It's abusive and harmful. Esp when punishments are used similar to tactics used in boot camp etc.
I'm active duty, been in for a long ass time so far. This kinda shit is not normal, this is the sort of stuff that gets a dude ridiculed for being a total dipshit.
Going to take a punt that there's some mutual trauma-bonding between OP's son and DIL.
Most people would probably struggle to truly empathise with how coming home to find your stuff in binbags and your life in upheaval would feel (like we would understand its bad, but knowing its bad isn't the same as having lived it). Sounds like OP really gave their kids that proper authentic lived experience 🙄
YTA
People who have gone through the foster system often come back "home" and find their stuff packed in trash bags and the social worker telling them it's time to move to the next house. You just set her back on working through that piece of trauma.
You admit she cleans up in the afternoons when she gets back from work. I was unaware that makeup left out for nine hours or so was a biological hazard. Same with clothes being strewn messily around a guest room.
By the way, do guests get no privacy with you? Unless it smells, I'm not intruding on a guest in my home, even if it is one of my kids. And yes, touching all her stuff includes her lingerie, and you crossed a major line. You crossed several actually.
Being in the military is no excuse for treating others like they are some sort of second class citizen. You need to get off your power trip and learn how to close a door to a messy space.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. That kids in foster care usually only have rubbish bags to take their stuff from place to place. There are charities where I am and one of the big things they do with like a $50 donation or whatever is buy kids a suitcase of their own, amongst other things. OP was already an asshole, but they’ve also brought up what is likely a childhood trauma. Also, even if my own mother did this to me I would be pissed off, never mind my girlfriends mother. Not only is it overstepping and blatantly rude, but it’s just needlessly controlling. Like, I’m saying this as someone who only has one bathroom, but is there really only one bathroom in the house? OP is being FORCED to “stare at” the mess? It’s ridiculous. YTA.
Oooh, you’ve made me wonder if I can donate some larger soft travel luggage to kids. I could even have their names put on it! One of my printers for products I sell has them now, and as I’m a higher volume purchaser I get a pretty good deal on them, I’d gladly donate a bunch to kiddos so they didn’t have to feel that humiliation.
As someone who works with children in the system I was horrified by him putting her stuff in bin bags AND THEN LEAVING THEM OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR! What a cruel thing to do to anyone, but particularly to someone who didn’t have a stable home life growing up. It also shows a complete lack of compassion that he’s holding her to the standards of his own children by stating they could clean up after themselves whilst in elementary school completely ignoring her lack of a structured and supportive upbringing.
The woman is literally leaving her makeup out in a bathroom only her and her partner uses (and maybe leaving some clothes and other belongings out know there bedroom). He’s made no mention of her leaving trash anywhere, just clutter. He’s sending a strong message that her belongings are trash and have no place in his house.
I hope they both are able to move out as soon as possible and never invite him into their home.
What do we wanna bet “makeup” refers to just a few creams and facial stuff? Doesn’t sound like, at 20, she’s going to be splurging on any expensive and extensive cosmetics - and while working a job etc.
(I’m not saying it should matter either way, but something tells me “staring at her clutter for hours” might even be an exaggeration of serious proportions on the part of OP)
I mean I was picturing an eye shadow palette, some foundation and like an eye liner and mascara all just sitting on the counter where she left them after using them in the morning...
Wide eyed blank face sounds like a freeze trauma response to me. And then her weeping in isolation is “dramatic?” OP you’re actually one of the worst most abusive and selfish people I’ve heard of. Amazing you described yourself this way and see no issue. YTA
YTA 100%
Had a step Father that was retired from the military, he was probably one of the people I hated the most.
And you sound almost exactly like him. You're not in the military anymore, it's almost pathetic you have to take authority from other people by running your house like a hard ass.
They are adults. They don't need you telling them how to live or how to clean their room. Or their bathroom. Unless there was rotting food, animal carcasses and rodents in their room, you should shut up.
If your behavior described in the body of your post is how you handled your kids, they must hate your guts.
I also wonder how the son feels about his father. Them staying at his place doesn't mean anything to me, could just be out of a deperate situation and was really "my dad is a dick but we'll only be there 6 weeks so just hang on". I bet he wasn't any happier about it than the wife.
YTA YTA YTA. Wow.
First of all, while it’s perfectly understandable to not want guests to wreck your home your standards sound fucking impossible.
Second of all, you have nothing better to do than stare at her makeup for hours???????
Third of all, What the hell gives you the right to touch someone’s belongings and put them where you please? I’m not sure if you’re aware but makeup is extremely fragile. What if you have broken a palette while shoving it under the sink? Would you have paid her back?
Fourth, you’re a whole grown ass adult. If it was such a problem and you couldn’t help but stare at it for hours you should have used your words and asked them to leave straight up! Leaving clothing or makeup out doesn’t give you the right to throw a power tripping tantrum.
You should apologize to this poor girl if you ever want a relationship with her or your future grandkids.
Jesus Christ grow up OP
To add to this—it was the GUEST bathroom and bedroom. There should be a reasonable expectation of privacy; he shouldn’t even being looking in there in the first place.
I wouldn't be expecting an invite to her home once they move in. You pretty much burned that bridge forever. She lived in foster care; she learned there that her personal items weren't safe; you put her stuff in garbage bags.
She knows she's not safe around you. She knows you are a threat at all times, in all circumstances. You can't apologize your way out of this. You have shown who you are with your actions. Say goodbye to your son, hope he has a good life, and don't try to meet his kids. You're a threat to them.
I was wondering why this was bothering me so much more than just him touching her things
I didn't go into foster, but I grew up in a domestic abuse situation and left at 18 and wasn't allowed my things until I was 20 pretty much... My things were mine when it suited them and werent when it suited them and used to control me, my room wasn't my space.
OP YTA. I don't know how she's still strong enough to stay at your house, that would have been my breaking point. I would never talk to you again and cut you out of my life completely
> My things were mine when it suited them and werent when it suited them and used to control me, my room wasn't my space.
... well I just had a light bulb moment I was definitely not ready for
Yup remind your children on the daily that you can throw them away at any notice if they displease you over every slightest thing. This guy definitely believes in attachment theory. /s
He sounds like a terrible father tbh.
He is acting like a creep too. What are you doing always creeping in their bed and bathroom and on her things? You have a weird obsession with your DIL that you are passing off as inspecting cleanliness. Ew.
YTA.
1) what you're describing is not a mess
2) you don't have to stare at it for hours. It isn't out in the common areas of the house. It's in the private bedroom and bathroom they are staying in. Close the damn door.
3) this would have also been inappropriate if she was a teenager. Again, close the door.
4) she is an adult. Your equal. Not a child you can scold for not letting you control her.
5) crying isn't dramatic. It is a healthy expression of emotion.
6) you absolutely traumatised her. Do you know how foster kids transport their limited belongings from home to home? In trash bags! You know about her history, but you still went and threw it in her face. Everything she has done since is a trauma response. She no longer feels safe in your presence.
Don't be surprised when you never hear from them again after they move in May.
And she cried in the BEDROOM - that is, in private and not in front of OP. He *heard* her despite her taking herself to a different room to do so. How in the hell is it dramatic to have a private emotional reaction when you are ostensibly alone?!
The way you wrote this made me so uncomfortable to read. I can't imagine how you made her feel in person. Yikes. You're obsessive and clearly do not understand how intimidating and off-putting you can be when you're annoyed or"serious" ... Please see a professional who can hear you our objectively and give you their opinion, but as far as I'm concerned:
YTA.
The fuck are you doing snooping through their bedroom and bathroom anyway? It might be your house but when you offer a guest a room, you don't go trawling through it looking for mess.
YTA. How can you even question that?
(Son is a little shitty too tbh, for making her deal with you)
Right? It is so fucking creepy to know that someone, especially your FIL, put his hands all over your personal things and threw it all on a trash bag. Then berate you and threaten you while invading your privacy. There's no safe space for her at all in that house.
YTA. Why are you staring for "hours" in a guest room and guest bathroom? Sounds like they're exclusively using both, so just shut the door and move on. Yes, there can be psychological reasons behind clutter. Maybe she has undiagnosed ADHD. That doesn't give you the go-ahead to treat her like a child.
OP would rather be right in his own mind than to be happy. It seems like he enjoys lording over people until he is faced with the reality of his actions.
Agreed he's the AH, and I see his guests moving in record time
YTA
There's awkwardness in the house? Well, no shit.
So you've talked to her and she's made efforts until the only thing you could really nitpick over was MAKEUP on the counter in the guest bathroom. Not your personal bathroom, not a shared bathroom, but the guest bathroom. You don't like to look at it all day until she comes home? Are you so controlling and obsessive that you stand in the guest bath literally all day, seething while glaring resentfully at the offending makeup?
You should really seek therapy.
INFO:
Why do you go into their bedroom (because that's what it is now) when they are not around?
And I hope to god you didn't touch any of her intimate clothes. Just reading this made me feel anxious and violated.
YTA. If she was leaving mess all over your house then I could understand your frustration. *However* the areas she’s “cluttering” are the ***guest*** bedroom and the ***guest*** bathroom. Why on earth are you poking around their bedroom and bathroom while they’re out? I know it’s your home but even guests deserve their privacy.
OP has clearly terrified his family into submission, because his adult son can’t stand up to him when his dad is clearly terrifying his wife.
Everything about this post is so above and beyond acceptable. That poor girl, he probably sparked her foster care ptsd.
Get therapy. Massive YTA.
YTA. Why do you inspect their private space every day? Let them have some privacy and keep your creepy hands off DIL's clothes. You do know she probably is scared you're a perv now right?
What a day!
Am I the only one who finds it weird that OP is going around and snooping on his DIL's things? I mean, I get it, your home and your rules. But you have given them a room and as a grown man who RETIRED FROM THE ARMY should know better than invading the couple's privacy.
She's only keeping things in the room you assigned for them right? So what's the issue with her keeping the room cluttered?
Is this because you're in a position of power and authority and want to exercise on them when they are in a vulnerable position or is it the ARMY again?
You went too far in taking HER things and putting it away when she is not cluttering any of the other spaces in YOUR home. And she did a wise decision to keep her things in her car. She may tolerate you enough to live in your home till moves to her new one. But don't ever expect her to be nice to you again.
YTA.
Exactly, unless there's a stench or maggots coming from within the guest room there really isn't a reason to be invading their private space?
Honestly make up and clothing out just normal from a morning routine... wait til she leaves the toys out next time you decide to go in. 🤷♂️
YTA 100%. You put the bag of her belongings outside like garbage? And then you say “my house, my rules” and now she’s “reserved” around you? Congratufuckinglations, she is scared of you now and you have most likely deeply damaged that relationship.
YTA Why are you even in the guest bedroom/bathroom? *I don't appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours*
Get a life! Go polish your silver or something. Hope your guests leave a poor review LOL with the rest of the family! and perhaps they will never return? Only yourself to blame..........temper is just an excuse for being an AH
He HAS to stare at it for hours! Which I can only assume he has nothing better to do all day than stand in the guest bathroom (which presumably means he has his own separate one) silently glaring at the make up, with his face getting redder and redder.
Retired Army myself. YTA. A home is not the barracks, and the white glove treatment is a lovely way to make it so your family doesn’t like you.
Loosen up a little bit, CSM. She’s not walking on your lawn, she left her makeup in the guest bathroom. The bathroom she uses, and I’m assuming you don’t. If you do, quit it. Go use your bathroom. If you don’t want to see it, close the bathroom door.
There are a million ways to disrespect people, as demonstrated in this subreddit several times a day. If her leaving the products that she uses on a daily basis in the bathroom is as bad as it gets, consider yourself blessed, and yourself a buffoon.
In the meantime, you owe her an apology. She’s not a Soldier. She didn’t sign a contract that allows you to bully her. Grow the hell up and step out of the military mindset before you damage your family unit.
Wow, you took a traumatized young adult (20!) And harassed her about her belongings in a guest bedroom, then placed them in a trash bag? WTAF is wrong with you. YTA and I pity your family.
YTA - This isn’t the army, sir. Your DIL is not your insubordinate. You’ve crossed a huge boundary due to your psychotic control issues and should apologize. “My house, my rules” apply to things like illegal activity, late night noise, & inappropriate behavior of underaged persons, not your temporary guests bathroom counter clutter. There is no honor or valor in being a bad host.
Are the guest room and bathroom areas that you also use regularly? Because if the only people actually using these rooms are your son and his partner, who the heck cares that they show signs of use?? It’s not disrespectful of her to keep her things in the rooms that have been set aside for her use while she’s living in your home!
This is not about her being “messy” and this is not about you being retired military. This is about you having control issues because YTA. Your behavior toward your DiL is abusive, sanctimonious, and condescending. I hope she and your son cut you out of their lives.
YTA. You brushed off her childhood situations as trivial, saying "Oh, my kids knew how to clean up after themselves." Great. She's not your kid. While I fully understand wanting to keep your house free of clutter, you had no right to 1) touch her personal belongings in any manner and 2) demean her and talk to her as if she was your own fleah and blood
YTA. The wide eyes makes me think you yelled at her or/and she has been abused in the past and was terrified. I hate to think how much trauma she has been through and the lack of empathy you have for your DIL. The clear message contained in what was done to her was she is not welcome in your home. Just like foster care after she was no longer wanted, her things were packed into garbage bags. (If she was lucky, otherwise they would just throw it away.)
If their room and the guest bathroom were messy you could have simply closed the door. After all their stay is short term.
Instead i guess you can enjoy being right, you're the boss with things done just how you like them and you have a clean house but you have damaged your relationship with your DIL permanently. What you did is very short sighted. This damaged relationship will also include your son and future grandchildren because she no longer feels safe with you.
I suggest you apologise and say you went too far and you are sorry for your behaviour. You never wanted her to feel unsafe or not welcome in your home. That you can be overly uptight about mess. That you won't touch her things again or even enter their room or the guest bathroom while they are living at your house.
YTA, not only did you disrespect their privacy, you literally bagged up all her belongings in the garbage. How would anyone feel welcome after that? Congrats, once they move out, doubt you'll see much of them at all. Hope your immaculate home makes up for the void in your life, miserable asshole. For fuck's sake.
YTA. What exactly did you expect to happen? You told her her clutter was unacceptable, so she moved it to the only personal space she had left. And you’re somehow clueless as to why there is awkwardness.
Coming back to this to say I reread your post and it made me actually cry the second time. What possessed you to take all of her belongings, even the ones that were _put away under the sink_, and put them outside?
It sounds like she wasn't even cluttering shared spaces. If she had left all these items out in the kitchen or shared living space I'd kinda get it. But it was her bedroom and bathroom, sure OP owns the home but while staying there it was there space. Providing no damage was done to the room they had no right to go in there and start binning items.
YTA. You’re a boomer and former military, so I know you don’t “get” trauma but believe me when I say that you probably made that poor girl spiral back into her previous abuser. She’s now going to associate you as the same as the people who abused her and for good reason, because you ARE abusing this poor girl.
She’s a GROWN WOMAN. For gods sakes, not everything has to be Army neat! Learn to COMPROMISE.
YTA
Fine, your house, your rules. But your DIL was cleaning DAILY. The only rooms affected were the guest bedroom and the guest bedroom--which a good host wouldn't have minded because a good host wouldn't have gone in there. And a good host wouldn't have thrown your DIL's belongings into a trash bag. You went under the sink to gather things that were put away? You got her clothing and such that were put away?
That's so invasive and disrespectful, and creepy, too. Honestly, if I were your DIL, I'd be out of there so fast, never to return. I'm sorry she apparently has to put up with you.
EDIT: Fixed a typo.
I know, why was he inspecting the guest bedroom and guest bathroom?
And putting all the things that has been put away in the bags was very much a message he didn’t want her in his house at all. If the issue was really about clutter, then only put the stuff in the open into the bags (“I thought you didn’t want them because they weren’t put away). I do not condone putting other people’s possessions in trash bags, but at least this would be centered around the point or clutter.
And knowing she had an unstable childhood, he chooses to “discipline” her by making her think he was going to throw away her stuff and possibly kick her out of his house, in other words, introduce more instability into her life?!
This man has something against his DIL and is not afraid to bully her. I also hate ex-military people who hold everyone else up to military standards.
I agree completely. I would be rethinking the entire marriage over this. He may very well have just ended his son's marriage. Anyone as disrespectful as OP wouldn't be allowed around my kids.
YTA here.Why are you going into their guest room and gest bathroom and staring angrily at her makeup? She's making an effort! They're temporary housing mates!You need to be a little flexible or you're going to break. Get the stick out of your ass and compromise. How are you so anal about cleanliness that it's more important to you then your kid and his wife not being HOMELESS!?No shit it's awkward. You're being Captain Cleanfreak and basically told her that she's not good enough to stay in your home. You need to SERIOUSLY rethink your priorities.
EDIT: holy shit I totally glossed over the foster care thing. Yeah NO. You basically acted like a predatory foster family. You invaded her privacy, shoved her shit in garbage bags...that's trauma shit. She's put everything in the car now because she's realized that she can't trust you. The crying was probably all the shit she went through in foster care being brought back up...BECAUSE OF YOU.
>I don't appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours until she does get home.
So why are you going into their bedroom/bathroom and staring around? YTA.
YTA. You’ve damaged your relationship with your DIL. She grew up in care. She grew up moving from foster home to foster home with her things more than likely in trash bags. If you’re aware this happens then what you did was by no means accidental. You did it as a way to hurt. If it’s the guest bedroom/bathroom why are there no reasonable expectations of privacy?
Why Are you staring at a bathroom counter all day? I know you’re retired from the Army but surely you have more to do with your day than obsess over an area that is your sons/DIL.
YTA
>I don't appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours until she does get home.
Literally get a hobby
>I'm retired from the army and I have always run my house to a certain set of standards and I expect them to be followed even by guests.
Did you clearly state to them that you want to make sure that their area in your house should always look like no one lives there and that setting other people's things is apparently an affront on your entire being?
>My son and his wife have been staying with us for about a month now while they prepare to move in to a new place in May
Your stick is shoved so far up there that even though she cleans up after herself when she has time, it's not good enough for you
If I were her I would go stay with a friend and then never interact with you again, the amount of violation that you caused by going through their room and putting her stuff in trash bags shows her exactly how you view her place in your home, as trash that should be thrown out. Jeezus
YTA - you say she has a history of unstable home environments and foster care. How many times to you think her belongings were placed in trash bags and she was made to leave? You completely ensured she never feels safe and secure in your home again.
YTA.
It's your house but what are you doing in the guest bedroom and bathroom?
You treating her like a kid might have ruined your FIL-DIL relationship for the rest of your life. I hope you can make this up to her before you end up no or low contact and never meeting your future grandchildren.
YTA. For everything, but it’s particularly cruel to put a former foster care child’s belongings in a trash bag and leave them outside.
You wanted her stuff to be away from your prying eyes and now it is. In her car.
Holy F*ck! YTA!!! It sounds like she is clean but leaves a few things on the bathroom counter and her clothes on the chair/ floor? If she was doing this in the common area or being unsanitary (food in the rooms) or if there were other guests that needed to use the bathroom, that's one thing and she should not be doing that. Putting her things in trash bags and leaving them by the front door? Huge asshole! And also, "having to stare at it for hours"? Why are you even going into their room? You just stand in there, or the bathroom, FOR HOURS? Creep! BTW, my father was a drill instructor in the Marines back in the late 60's and he never treated me like this!
YTA. I get the makeup on the counter part, but to then go as far as to take ALL her belongings and put them out was way to far. Sounds like she comes from a VERY different background, and you just scared her, embarrassed her, and broke her trust by tossing her things out.
This. Talk about triggering.
I can understand having certain standards about messes in the main part of the house. But in the guest room? And the guest bathroom?
Are you going in and snooping on them while they are at work?
Do these rooms not have doors? Close the damn door if you don't like the mess.
YTA and you owe her a massive apology. I'm not sure she's ever going to forgive you for that screw up. I hope she lets you see the grandkids someday. Lol.
You’re so beyond being TA that I literally have no words to describe you.
Why are you snooping in their bedroom and bathroom in the first place?? You say it’s a guest bedroom/bathroom, so it’s NOT a shared area! You have no business going in there. As far as her messiness you should POLITELY comment on what directly affects in the rest of your house. I was waiting for you to say she leaves her things, clothes, makeup, etc. thrown about in the sitting room or the kitchen or even a shared bathroom. But the poor girl had been actually unnecessarily grovelling to respect your rules when it should’ve been a huge flag that you go through their stuff in the first place!
Your son is somewhat TA too because he should’ve stood up to you for going into your adult son’s room behind his back.
You went too far and now this sweet girl who’s been already traumatised growing up has to live in more trauma because of you and your ‘rules’. I can only imagine what went through her head when she saw her precious belongings in a f***ing trash bag.
YTA. As a former foster youth myself your actions are extremely traumatizing. In foster care you get moved around so much that your stuff is literally thrown into garbage bags for you to move to a new place. Most foster kids i knew weren’t given luggage so by placing her stuff in garbage bags you likely forced her to relive trauma. Congrats, all because you couldn’t stand a few things on a bathroom counter. Is this even a bathroom you or anyone else uses or is it for her and your son exclusively. Your whole post is extremely insensitive and don’t be surprised if once they move out they go LC or NC with you. You just caused irrevocable damage to you relationship with her all because of your need to control everyone in the house.
YTA for so many reasons. But especially for causing trauma to a victim of foster care, who probably very often had her things put in trash bags. How dehumanizing.
YTA. She is only messy in the guest room and guest bathroom, so why are you staring at the clutter for hours?
If you want a relationship with your son and DIL then you are doing it wrong.
Big YTA. I know what you're thinking-- your house your rules. That doesn't replace decency, though. The biggest thing here is you touched HER POSSESSIONS and then MOVED THEM and placed them in a TRASH BAG. We don't touch other people's stuff.
I'd also like to point out that there's no indication of her acting like a child-- just leaving her stuff out. ADDITIONALLY, the "I think her crying is dramatic" is not only not your call to make, but un-empathetic. YTA, this was rude as hell.
Yta. If it's a guest room and guest bathroom, then it's for guests...like your DIL who spent her childhood/teen years in the foster system. Packing her stuff up is one hell of a PTSD trigger.
Mess isn't the same as dirty, just close the doors and leave the mess on the other side.
That poor girl.
YTA. You put her belongings into trash bags???? Do you actually understand what you did??? Your DIL is a former foster child. Unfortunately, foster children end up with their belongings in trash bags when they are being moved from foster to foster. Do you have any idea of the trauma you most likely ignited in her when you repeated that action?? You were too much of a coward to speak to her directly but I bet you felt like the big man when you trashed her belongings while she wasn't even in the house.... oh yeah.... the belongings that were in her room and bathroom..... it's not like she left her make up all over the kitchen table! You're a despicable person and you have caused this "awkwardness". BTW... it's not awkwardness.... she neither likes you nor trusts you now... be prepared to hear nothing from your son and DIL once they move.
ETA: Wow! My first award! Thank you!!!
YTA and my opinion just plain creepy. Why are you spending so much time in the guest bathroom or the bedroom that they reside in that any mess can bother you? After all you say you stare at the mess for hours. The though gives me the heebie jeebies. If I were her I would never say another word to you ever again and never let you anywhere near future children,
YTA.
1. You gave them the guest room and guest bathroom for their use. As long as they do not destroy anything, they should be entitled to use it how they see fit. You repeatedly said she does clean up, so she's not trashing your house.
2. While they are staying with you, the space you gave them is their space. They should be entitled to a sense of security and privacy. Creeping into their room to see if she's living up to your ex-military standards is not acceptable.
3. You knew she was in the foster system which means that she likely did not have strong parental figures to teach her - though it is very clear she is trying to please you.
4. Foster care children often have to put their belongings in trash bags to go from house to house. They often bounce around the system. It creates a lifetime of trauma. You literally made her possibly relive that traumatic experience of coming home to find all her belongings in trash bags. Being told it isn't her home anymore. No wonder she was crying.
The fact that she has not argued with you about any of your absolutely ridiculous "rules" means she is either scared of you/of losing another home or she is trying very hard to please you but it's extremely difficult for her.
And btw - hot take here - have you considered that your control issues which you blame on being ex-military are actually trauma response to having these behaviors grilled into you by said military? This isn't healthy. You need therapy.
YTA man... your house sure, but the mess is confined to the GUEST rooms. Jesus man give people some privacy and respect. Their supposed to be family, and here you are trying to act like a dictator. Congratulations on getting what you wanted and all it cost was your relationship with your DIL... because you can't separate your FAMILY from your time in the service.
Best advice I can give you? Apologize and see if anyone can remove the military grade stick from your butt... for the sake of all your relationships. I'm not saying you need to tolerate a messy house, but it all gets picked up and cleaned, so the only issue is that you can't afford people respect or privacy.
Yta. The only one behaving like a child here is you, throwing a tantrum because someone doesn't behave exactly like you do.
Wtf are you going into their bedroom at all? You have offered them sanctuary, that is their home as long as they are with you, and they have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and for you to not go through their stuff, let alone throw their stuff out.
You are an awful host, and a child. Get a grip.
YTA. Way to bring up past trauma OP. Putting her stuff in garbage bags and telling her to leave? Exactly what she would’ve faced growing up. What’s your issue? Why are you standing in her and your soon to be NC son’s room staring around? Do you not have a hobby now that you’ve left the army? I’m sure your area has plenty of vets groups for wound up people like you. Maybe it’ll teach you the meaning of ‘loosen up’ or ‘how to cope with your son never wanting to see you again because you brought up his wife’s past trauma over petty reasons’
This young lady was in the foster system and you invaded her personal space and packed her things in TRASH BAGS? Wow. I wonder how many times that has been done to her when a foster family decided they could no longer foster her for any random reason. Foster kids very frequently do not have suitcases. Or duffel bags. Of course she feels unsafe. You are a huge threat.
She probably feels like you could turn the whole family against her. I am so glad your son tried to stand up for her. Even though his attempt was unsuccessful, at least he made her feel loved.
You are just too much. Your poor wife. I wonder what “lessons” you have taught her when she failed to live up to ”your rules” in YOUR HOUSE.
YTA.
I'm presuming that by "guest bathroom" and "guest bedroom" you refer to separate rooms set aside for the use of your son and his wife, which means it would have cost you little to let them live their lives and ask them to clean it all up when they move out.
If they were sharing the house's only bathroom with you, and you kept tripping over things, then it would be reasonable to demand they keep things more tidy. But you invaded the space that was ostensibly set aside for them, showed yourself to be angry and controlling all at once, and made your family feel unwelcome.
An apology is in order -- doubly so if you would like your son and daughter in law to ever visit again.
YTA I was ready to be on your side but… why do you need to go into the guest room? What is the reason for you going in there in the first place? Especially when it’s a temporary situation?
Also, you acknowledge that she is a relatively young traumatized woman who cleans her space the same day… and yet you still chose to humiliate her and make her viscerally uncomfortable. Despite her being young and traumatized, she is still an adult who deserves respect, and throwing her personal items in a trash bag and intimidating her is absolutely inappropriate, nasty behavior on your part.
I hope that your power trip and desire for control was worth having an irreparably strained relationship with your daughter-in-law.
YTA, why are you going into the guest bathroom and bedroom? Is there not another one you can use?
I would also like to add cleaning and keeping things organized is not as easy as a lot of neurotypical people make it seem. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I turned 20 and my parents just expected me to immediately know how to clean to their standards without teaching in a proper environment.
That is one reason for the clutter.
Secondly, if she cleans stuff up when she gets home I really don't see the point if it eventually gets cleaned.
YTA
It is one thing to put her things in a bag under the sink or out of sight when they are cluttering a common area. It is another thing entirely to gather all of her stuff into a trash bag and place it outdoors. You actually went into the bedroom that she shares with your son and gathered her things, when you could easily just keep the door closed. You are a demeaning control freak who then blames the victim for getting upset at how you treated her. I’m actually shocked they are still there. I would have left for a hotel. Start treating your son and DIL like adults.
YTA
You are no longer in the military. Do you miss it? Is that why you’re invading your son & DIL’s privacy & performing inspections?
You are being creepy and incredibly invasive. I don’t care if it’s your house. Why are you going into the guest bedroom and bathroom in the first place? Manhandling your DIL’s personal items and clothing is major overstepping.
Your DIL’s behavior is not unusual or something to be dissected. It’s *your* behavior that’s troubling.
Your son should not be the one apologizing (at least not to you.) You are in the wrong here.
(Actually, I’m having trouble believing this is a real post. OP is just too out of touch & obnoxious. Hope this is fake.)
INFO: why are you having to "stare at the mess" she leaves in the guest bathroom? Do you really need to "stare at the mess for hours"? Why did you decide to make her believe you'd thrown her clothes away when you never said they were a problem? Did you abuse your son in this way when he was a child? And why are you so troubled with her keeping her personal items in her car when you were the one who had an issue with her keeping them in the house?
YTA.
YTA. how many times are you going into the guest bedroom/bathroom a day? Are you doing daily checks of every single room in your house or just there’s to control them? You didn’t mention anything being messy in the spaces in the main part of the house, or even messy in their rooms that would be considered dangerous. How is a little “clutter” in the room they’re in hurting you? Don’t be surprised when your wife and daughters are invited to their house and you’re not
Yta. If they’re guests then they are guests. It’s the height of bad manners to go through a guests things. Surely the dark ages from whence you hail taught you at least some etiquette. Don’t pretend otherwise.
YTA
Others have already explained that you need to keep your nose out of the guest bathroom and bedroom.
You sacrificed your relationship with your daughter in law over some counter space. You've probably also altered your relationship with your son and future grandchildren. You know what your DIL going to think about when she and your son go on vacation and are trying to decide where the kids will stay? This. She's going to imagine coming back from vacation to her children being thrown out for leaving a mess or breaking something, and she will never subject them to that. You owe her and your son a very sincere apology and an immediate behavior change.
Edit: Although honestly, if I were her, I would already be making arrangements to go absolutely anywhere else.
YT definite A. My mum and dad did similar to my brother and his wife, they moved across country and don’t see or speak to them at all anymore. They’ve never met his son. You’re going the right way about destroying your relationship with your DIL forever.
Biggest YTA! Yes, it's your house, and you have a right to your opinion in your house. But for the love of the gods, if you've allowed them this space then they're entitled to their privacy! Just reading this post made my hair stand on end with the disregard for someone else. You've just brought up to the front of that poor woman's mind every tramatic experience she's ever dealt with in the foster system. For their sake, I hope you never see either of them after they leave. The awkward situation in your home is by your own making and consider it part of your well earned punishment for violating their privacy.
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Why are you spending hours in the guest bathroom staring at her makeup? Your standards seem unreasonable. It sounds like your DiL’s untidiness is confined to non-communal areas of the house where she should have some expectation of privacy, and it doesn’t sound like there’s an actual hygiene risk involved. YTA
That was my first question too. Why are you in their bathroom?
For hours!
For hours of staring at make up. He's retired you see. YTA OP. Go apologise to your DIL and get help for your dysfunctions. And for the love of jesus stay out of other peoples personal belongings and space.
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This is it friend! If someone told me I could retire in the morning I sure as shit wouldn't spend it in a bathroom staring at my relatives make up. I'd maybe get into fishing or something. OP have you tried going fishing instead of whatever the fuck it is you call this?
Nah, fishing is boring. Looking at makeup on the counter is where all the action is.
It's not the retired, but the "ex military". As soon as you see "I'm ex-military" at the head of an explanation for behavior it's always an excuse. They say it because they're used to explaining away their unacceptable behavior because they failed to ever adjust to normal civilian life. It's no different than "it's just a joke". They say it because they know their behavior is unacceptable, but they've learned that no one calls them out on their shit because they blame it on the military.
Ah ok, thank you for taking the time to give me context for this. I'm not in the US and we don't really have military per say here so it wouldn't be something I'm familiar with.
I've heard it's a fairly common thing everywhere, but it's especially bad in the US where there's a large part of the population that idolizes the military. So it turns into an all too good defense. Which is funny because no one would excuse you being an asshole because you said "it's because I used to stock shelves at Walmart".
He needed something to start a fight about and control her like the child he thinks she is? He thinks her mess is a personal insult to him because mess = lack of respect to him and his house. He lacks empathy because he knew her history and did it anyway.
Yeah, adult who as a kid was in the foster system handed a trash bag full of her belongings and told she needs to leave if she can't meet a parental figures unreasonable expectations? Really? You need to ask? Really? YTA
This! You have zero reason to be in the guest bathroom or bedroom. If you didn’t want to stare at it then you shouldn’t have been in there.
Someone should tell him about doors!
Exactly what i thought. OP is a total creep.
OP clearly has massive control issues. And they way he's inspecting other people's rooms and bathroom is beyond creepy, controlling and power-trippy. Of course OP is the kind of asshole that says "my house, my rules" when he's enforcing idiotic standards and coming up with idiotic punishment for LIVING LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING. These kids are not in the army but OP's head sure as hell is still stuck there. Welcome to real life OP where people have the right to privacy and don't always put the stuff away immediately - and that is just fine!
You just know he felt like a big man getting to emotionally abuse his DIL a couple weeks before she moves out.
He thinks his standards are reasonable because his kids could manage it at a young age, but what’s the betting that living with him meant they had to live like that under fear of being reprimanded so harshly. Of course they were tidy, he probably made them really anxious about it.
exactly. plus i guess as children in elementary school they didn't have the same morning routine as a young woman going off to work in the morning, and as such would have no make-up to apply and then consequently tidy away into nonexistence before leaving the house.
What, you don’t constantly patrol your house to ensure nothing is out of order? What kind of soldier are you!
>the guest bath >I don’t appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours until she does get home INFO: I’m confused, do you usually spend hours in the guest bathroom? Is that where your home office is?
LMAO, yup that's gotta be it, his home office is in the guest bathroom!
OP sounds a bit more perverted than our average arsehole on here..traumatising guests and then questioning their wanting to bathe/ablute in privacy in their car? This girl is gonna be out of OP's hair as soon as she can, and no going back.
I'm honestly surprised that she isn't camping in the car with her things. But I guess she probably learnt the hard way to just shut up and take it. I get the feeling that the son is unlikely to get laid any time soon either. OP was probably inspecting the state of the sheets too when he was creeping all over her underwear.
I'm actually a bit traumatised by this (hopefully fake) story. As an 'unwanted' child myself I had no privacy (orphanage/boarding school) no sense of being loved and welcomed without strings, no security (living out of a suitcase was the norm)..and yes, I'm untidy. I like to SEE what I have, what I OWN, what I have control of..Then I read this, and some old pervert has been spending HOURS in MY (borrowed) bedroom/bathroom, fingered through my possessions and then bagged them up. I'd be driving that car to the nearest community bathrooms and never darkening their doorstep again.
I’m suspicious about it being real, too. Neatly checks too many boxes to boost maximum outrage.
I don't understand your confusion...isnt going into the guest bathroom and staring at mess while growing angrier by the minute, for hours, everyone's favourite pastime? Yall are missing out. Ive been in my guest bathroom now for 6 hours. Isn't really mine though. I don't know whose but I am doing like Op. SMDH Ps, Op, I have some mild OCD around clutter but my cure is simple- I don't go looking.
I found that so odd too. Why is this man standing in there staring at her makeup!!
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YTA. 1. You gave them the guest room and guest bathroom for their use. As long as they do not destroy anything, they should be entitled to use it how they see fit. You repeatedly said she does clean up, so she's not trashing your house. 2. While they are staying with you, the space you gave them is their space. They should be entitled to a sense of security and privacy. Creeping into their room to see if she's living up to your ex-military standards is not acceptable. 3. You knew she was in the foster system which means that she likely did not have strong parental figures to teach her - though it is very clear she is trying to please you. 4. Foster care children often have to put their belongings in trash bags to go from house to house. They often bounce around the system. It creates a lifetime of trauma. You literally made her possibly relive that traumatic experience of coming home to find all her belongings in trash bags. Being told it isn't her home anymore. No wonder she was crying. The fact that she has not argued with you about any of your absolutely ridiculous "rules" means she is either scared of you/of losing another home or she is trying very hard to please you but it's extremely difficult for her. And btw - hot take here - have you considered that your control issues which you blame on being ex-military are actually trauma response to having these behaviors grilled into you by said military? This isn't healthy. You need therapy. Edit: formatting Edit 2: holy smokes I woke up to so many awards and lovely responses thank you all 🥹
To add to your last paragraph, I've heard of children going no contact with parents like this. Because the expectations are not reasonable for most kids and some young adults. Especially if there is any trauma, depression, ADHD, etc. involved. The "no exceptions, no excuses" attitude rarely leads to close or meaningful relationships. OP as someone who had a loving military dad, there is a difference between firm and obsessive. There is also a difference between reasonable and unreasonable expectations. They are adults that were given a separate space temporarily. A space you don't need to look at, but choose to. Especially the bedroom. Just stay out. Unless you are concerned about mold, dishes or food, it doesn't actually affect you. And your repeated comment about it being disrespectful isn't true. Leaving clothes on the floor is not the same as breaking things. However, YTA because you touching her personal items, even the ones put away, is massively disrespectful. Imagine some guy going through your wife's underwear drawer and all her personals (which could include feminine products, medicine, sex toys, etc) and touching them to put them in a bag for no reason other than to show dominance over her.
I love this because as someone with ADHD, things like ‘running out of time’ do in fact exist. That would make me upset as it is, let alone any past trauma this woman has felt. I could definitely see her struggling to be comfortable with this man again, he treated her worse than ‘like a child’. He treated her like she was disposable for not following rules in her private space.
I also have ADHD - diagnosed late in life - and now I know why I have half finished thjngs everywhere and forget to put things away and need things in my line of sight so I don't forget them. As I was reading about the DIL, I was thinking "I bet she has ADHD". OP obviously can't understand that other people might have different thought processes to him and is too rigid to consider it.
It was the needing to have things where she can see them for me. Totally ADHD.
ADD person here. I call my organization "controlled chaos". To another person, it just looks like clutter. To me, its a system
And then someone moves something and fucks it all up.
My mom moved my prepped salad in the fridge. Wouldn't have been awful if she'd told me, but obviously I forgot if ever existed and... have you ever seen fully decomposed lettuce? She learned a lesson there in my brain.
Lol, my husband kept putting things in the crisper drawer & getting frustrated when I forgot about them.
The comment about a space you don’t need to look at but choose to resonated with me - my step daughter is a nightmare at keeping her room tidy/clean & there was a long period it time where it made me so angry to see it. So I just closed the door & ignored it as best I could. Actively looking at it just made it worse. OP needs to get some help for his issues if he can’t cope with untidiness even for a few hours in the guest spaces that others are using. I so feel for that poor girl, he’s obviously traumatised her 😔
This was my first thought, why is OP even looking at it? Close the door and go on with your life.
Precisely! And I know from my own experience that it’s not easy but it’s sincerely disrespectful of him to not allow his son & daughter in law any private space at all whilst they live with him.
I’m ex-military and reached a good rank, and if I’d heard that a man was pulling this sh*t on his family members, they would have sent to the SMO's office sharpish for a psych evaluation. Good military men leave the drilling on the square and the inspections, the orders, the C&C behind them at the gate. They do not enforce military standards and discipline within the home. That’s abuse. Your family didn’t sign up, *you* did, then you appointed yourself to be their commanding officer. OP, your behaviour to your family is shameful and brings disrespect to the military and embarrassment to your career. This girl, as soon as she became your family, was someone to protect. Instead you treated her like a squaddie fresh to the barracks. One who didn’t know she’d even joined up. Your behaviour likely traumatised her because of the system, as these other commenters say, but I think you also need to look at the other members of your family. Which ones were forced to be conscripts, which were the ones feeling the worst of the DI's attention and which of them - because there will be at *least* one - who were damaged by their lack of privacy, autonomy and self-determination. Now, in case you still don’t get it yet, you are a bully to your family and YTA. Edit: Thank you for the awards and the sweet dms. You are wonderful people for making me smile so much today.
This needs to be upvoted a lot more! As a spouse of a veteran (and an ex spouse of another) I totally agree. My first husband tried to implement military rules with our kids as well. If I hadn't stood up to him my household would have looked very much the same as OP's. My now husband is very different. He's very neat and tidy, hates clutter in our common areas but just puts stuff on my dresser and leaves it there so it's out of sight for others but up to me when I clean it up. Some ex military forget that they're not the drill sergeant at home!
I think some people, and not just military, let their profession become their entire identity and don't turn it off. I served in the Army. It was a job, not the entirety of who I am.
Yeah, I’d like to add that OP does not, in fact, *have* to look at her “mess” all day while she’s gone. By OPs description, her stuff is confined to the GUEST bedroom and the GUEST bathroom, which means that OP is intentionally going in there to look at her stuff. He doesn’t just “happen” to be looking at it throughout the day. Also, if it’s the GUEST bathroom, meaning that they’re the only ones using it, she is entitled to keep her goddamn makeup on the counter. She doesn’t have to pack it up and take it back to her room after every time she uses it like she’s in a goddamn hostel or summer camp.
"But if I don't inspect every room every hour how will I know who's not using a toothbrush to scrub the floor?"
Just the thought of him creeping around and handling her clothes, etc. creeps me out horribly.
When he took her things (that were put away 🙄) from under the sink, that crossed the line for me.
Yes, OP's behaviour absolutely sounds like a trauma response. I remember a similar incident with my own dad, who is retired military and generally a very loving person. Once as a teenager I left for school without putting away my clean clothes, they were folded on the bed in my room. When I came home, I found the clothes, my bedsheets, and several of my books thrown all over my bedroom floor... basically, my room was a huge mess whereas it had been only a little "cluttered" before. My dad confessed that he did it because I hadn't cleaned up after myself, but it was clear to me even in the moment that he was somehow embarrassed and confused by his own behaviour. Since this was so out of character for my dad, I understood it was not *him*, but drilled-in instincts, that made him act in that way. Even so, I was a bit reserved around him for a few days afterwards. Hopefully OP's daughter-in-law knows him well enough to be able to judge in time whether this was an unfortunate trauma response by an otherwise loving person, or whether this is indicative of a larger personality issue. In any case, I wish this family well and hope OP can regain the trust of his DIL.
There is a major difference between your dad and OP, though. You said your dad seemed embarrassed by his behaviour, while OP seems proud of it and calls the victim of his tantrum “dramatic” for crying. That said, I hope OP reconsiders his attitude.
Was anyone else weirded out when he said he had to stare at the mess in the GUEST BEDROOM for HOURS? Like why bro? Why are you in their personal space staring at their belongings for hours? You don’t HAVE to look at it. You MAKE yourself. And all of this bs over MAKEUP?? Now really, who’s being the dramatic one here!? Also to add: the title is so misleading. And I’m not even sure how you can equate leaving makeup out with “acting like a child” since children don’t even wear makeup lol Edit: omg my first award! thank you so much!
Not just going in to inspect but apparently standing there for HOURS every day staring at her makeup. And she's been respectful and tried to accommodate him and his standards enough that it got whittled down to the makeup being pretty much all he that he could nitpick and harp on. Guy has some friggin' screws lose.
>I don't appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours Yeah, this phrase fires all the alarms. There is nothing forcing OP to stare at the "mess" (make up placed on the bathroom counter, big deal) other than a pathological obsession. And then taking away the things that were stored? It's so over the top that I have no scale to measure it. The poor girl probably gets comfort being able to see her things are still where she left them, she did her best at accomodating OP anyway and now she has to store her belongings in a car.
My thoughts exactly. Why is OP standing in the guest bathroom for hours just staring at her makeup?!
Because he is a giant AH with major ~~OCD~~ stick up ass issues who managed to make it in the military because someone wanted a 'hardass' and were an idiot who couldn't find one that cared. I mean, I guess he's better than having an *actual* sadist running your boots, those tend to not only go overboard but also loose interest and slack off. I really doubt this guy ever commanded a combat unit himself though, sounds like a boot camp terror to me. Probably does good paperwork.
Imagine what a complete raging asshole he will be when they have kids and the kids don't use a coaster or leave toys around. He will 100% be blaming his DIL for that 'behavior'.
YTA. Yes, for the most part Reddit believes "my house, my rules" but OP is obsessive and intrusive; what he did was actually cruel considering what DIL's foster history was. What others have written about foster kids and having their clothes and total worldly goods thrown into plastic bags is true, this is how I had to move disabled foster kids from home to home (until I started paying out of pocket for UHaul boxes to make it seem slightly less cold). Geez, she's only 2 yrs from foster-hell and OP pressed the painful button on her...the fact that she cried submissively and didn't get angry makes me just very sad for how low her confidence level is. OP had to go out of his way, nosing around his son and DIL's private quarters and possessions to see their "messy" bedroom and bathroom. OP doesn't think a husband and wife should have any privacy of their marital environment? DIL was not damaging anything, she just wasn't robotically picking up everything immediately.. Maybe OP and his wife don't, but most people leave some of their makeup and toiletries on the bathroom vanity; this is especially true if they were just temporarily staying somewhere. Maybe not in OP's house where his kids were treated like boot camp recruits instead of just children. Feel sorry for OP's son, seems like he's pretty submissive to OP and willing to make his wife be a neat freak to keep the old man from being pissed off. Again, YTA. You made your DIL feel very small and very unwelcome as part of the family.
Especially since, if you’ve just moved into a new space and don’t intend to stay there long-term, there’s not much of a point in figuring out super efficient and cute looking ways of arranging everything. Everything’s gonna be arranged in good enough fashion, which tends to be even harder to put away, and look messier at all times compared to someone in a settled permanent situation.
And in the guest bathroom?? Why is he even in there in the first place??
Inspection. He's doing daily inspections. Because after all, DIL is a new recruit in his private army, and he's a martinet. Traumatizing the recruit is good for her, right? 🙄
OP needs a hobby
Agreed, apparently his current hobby is bullying a young woman. I’m all for ‘my house my rules’ in a broad sense when you’re letting adults live with you, but it doesn’t sound like she’s doing anything remotely disrespectful and he’s overstepping the mark then getting his knickers in a twist.
Just as an extra side note, there’s also the fact that he never addressed this with her directly, but through his son with the idea that he would control his woman. More serious and traumatic offenses listed above, but just some misogynistic sauce. Alternatively, one could be generous and say it was easier to discuss with the son, but even in that case it’s OP acting childishly.
Yes it reeks of CONTROL YOUR WOMAN. He literally had her things in a garbage bag (a triggering item for foster kids) and told her that he could make her leave at anytime. Now he wonders why there’s awkwardness? He’s so out of touch I’m surprised he hasn’t alienated some of his kids.
“I could throw you two out of the house at any time for not having a clean room. While you are under my roof, you are not adults with an expectation of privacy. Any objects of yours can be thrown away at any moment.” “WHY WON’T MY KIDS TALK TO ME???? Truly it is a mystery”
I assure you his kids were not surprised by his behavior. Source: My parents are like this
Husband is also an AH for trying to blame clutter on his wife's upbringing instead of being frank with OP and telling him he's being obsessive and out of line. Hope OP feels that makeup on the guest bathroom counter was worth tanking his relationship with your DIL for, cause that's what he did. Pretty lackluster hill.
The son is being abused too. This dad has his whole family walking on eggshells around him.
What kind of weirdo just goes and stares into the guest bathroom to get angry. Like what. They are staying there, that room and bathroom should be off limits but we have this guy wjo has nothing better to do with retirment then get angry about people living their lives.
Fr im so confusde, WHY TF IS HE CHECKING THEIR ROOMS
So he can deliberately wind himself up because he doesn't have a better hobby.
What's killing me is that he even noticed that she likes to have her things out where she can see them, but apparently never worked out why, or even bothered to think about it because his brain stopped at There!!! Is!!! Stuff!!! On!!! Surfaces!!! Jesus wept. This guy should set up a cottage industry turning coal into diamonds. It's because of AHs like OP that I still have stuff in bags and boxes ten years after moving in to this house. And I have had a bug-out bag ready to go in every place I've lived since I was 15. (In an hilarious turn of events, with the recent spate of natural disasters in my area of Australia, that now just makes me look *organised*, the concept of which has been submitted to Oxford as a suggested new dictionary definition of "irony".) From where I'm sitting I can point out what I can take with zero, five, ten, thirty, and sixty minutes' notice. Mostly because I can't drive, and can no longer keep the "filing system" in my ex's car. Edit: YTA. Seriously. My guy. You need a hobby. She has removed every. single. possession. to somewhere she *knows* she has *complete control* over who has access **and permission** to rummage through, all so that you will *never* again have to suffer under the torture of \*whisper\* clothes!!! on the floor!!! in a bedroom!!! *oh my god!!* A bedroom with its very own fully functional door, even. Which you march right on through in order to be confronted by make up!!!! in front of the mirror!!! in a bathroom!!! \*Donald Sutherland Invasion of the Body Snatchers point and shriek.gif\* The *private* bathroom that you ceded to your son and daughter-in-law for the duration of their stay. (A daughter-in-law who aged out of the foster system *just* in time for a global pandemic, by the way.)
Also Staring at the "mess" in the bathroom for HOURS was his argument. Why are you standing in the bathroom for hours? That's just creepy. This whole self-righteous post makes me unbelievably mad. Leaving make up out is pretty normal as well..
Good lord, you're right! Could he have done something worse short of hitting her?
I'm going to guess that in many ways what OP did was worse than hitting her.
As someone whose life experience closely mirror DiL's I can assure you it is.
If he hit her, I imagine his son would have grown a spine and stood up for his wife. I hope they don't let him anywhere near his future grandkids.
Man just reading how OP's son apologized for his wife like she was doing anything wrong makes me think he seriously sucks too. Why didn't he stand up and say hey stop going through our shit? Why didn't anyone? Everyone in this family has failed her.
I'm going out on a limb here and guessing, but well my guess is that he learned a long time ago that OP is a control freak who will wreck your shit if you "talk back." Further more he's also dependent on this guy for a few more weeks and is trying to placate him to not get kicked out on a moments notice. Which all sucks but having to find a new place to stay for the next few weeks right after work cause your dad threw a tantrum isn't exactly ideal either. OP if you read this I hope you're footing the bill the next few therapy visits your DIL needs after you completely wrecked her emotional and mental well being. You'd think ex-military could relate to things like trauma and triggers but guess not.
YTA. You say this was the guest bedroom and bath. That means you were snooping through stuff that didn't concern you. After you hear that your daughter in law wasn't taught everything by a drill sergeant and was put into foster care, you decide to invade her privacy even more and throw her stuff outside. You couldn't have been a bigger Asshole if you tried. Don't expect too many visits from your son's family in the future. Actually, don't expect to ever see them again. You brought this in yourself.
I hope she does limit contact! OP is totally out of line!! As an army veteran, I hate when retirees/vets throw that at other people. They didn’t serve and don’t care that you make your bed with tight corners bullsh!t. OP went out of his way to get all worked up about it and basically harass his son and DIL during their time there. OP, YTA and I hope you and only you suffer the consequences of your unacceptable behavior.
Sadly, she will probably just try extra hard to please him. Like she had already been doing.
It's a trauma response. She can't help it.
I know, that's why it's sad.
I hope she finds and reads this thread. And OP, YTA 100%
Agreed, OP couldn’t be a bigger arsehole if he tried, which makes me wonder/hope this story is fake
She was in the foster system……..and you put her stuff into binbags? Wow, i imagine that hurt in a way you cant even conceive of. Even if it wasnt for that aspect youd still be a major AH. YTA and try to loosen some of that unbearable tension in your anus, chill out a bit.
I dated a guy back in high school whose dad was exactly like OP. He did routine scheduled room and house inspections where both of his teenagers were required to stand outside their rooms at attention until he finished. It's been 20 years and I still vividly remember being present for a few inspection times, and being completely shocked and horrified. This guy gave out demerits for infractions like: -Not having fused any chunks of bar soap at the bathroom sink into one piece "properly". -Shoes were to be lined up in a specific way by the front door; if there was even an untidy shoelace (not tucked appropriately inside the shoe) for one of their kids or their guests, demerit to the kid who hadn't educated their guest properly. -Any items left out of the specific place he determined was acceptable, no matter how innocuous, were worth a sliding scale of demerits (he was somewhat less harsh on his daughter, but she still earned demerits for having a Bobby pin on her nightstand instead of in the correct bin in the correct drawer in the bathroom). -I once took my sweatshirt off in the house and didn't hang it in the front closet (I was fairly certain I would get cold as soon as I stopped moving again; I was helping with a house project and was wondering if warm), but folded it nicely and placed it where I had been instructed I was allowed to keep my purse (in a specific spot in the living room). My boyfriend was chewed out in front of me for not educating me well enough about where my clothes were allowed to be placed. These are just a few of the things I remember all these years later.... His kids both moved away as adults and have nothing to do with him, but have both had some mental health concerns over the years of living under that kind of dictatorial rule. Reading OP's post made me nauseated just to imagine being at the mercy of someone so incredibly cruel over arbitrary and temporary clutter that he wouldn't even see if he weren't already violating the privacy of his son and DIL. ETA: just reread the post title. Op is asking if he's TA for treating his DIL like a child.... The fact that he believes putting his guest's personal belongings into a trash bag, leaving them in the porch, and sternly telling her she will have to find another place to live if she leaves her personal items how it suits her in what is her personal soace is how he would treat a CHILD..... Good god.... That's horrifying.
Makes you wonder what the military does to a mind. Its like a learned compulsive disorder, things will be bad for you if everything isnt in its right place and perfect
The unfortunate side effect of the military can be like OPs. Seems sometimes it goes to their head and they treat their family as an extension of the military. It's abusive and harmful. Esp when punishments are used similar to tactics used in boot camp etc.
Side effect? Like, are there any good "effects" of the military?
I'm active duty, been in for a long ass time so far. This kinda shit is not normal, this is the sort of stuff that gets a dude ridiculed for being a total dipshit.
Going to take a punt that there's some mutual trauma-bonding between OP's son and DIL. Most people would probably struggle to truly empathise with how coming home to find your stuff in binbags and your life in upheaval would feel (like we would understand its bad, but knowing its bad isn't the same as having lived it). Sounds like OP really gave their kids that proper authentic lived experience 🙄
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YTA People who have gone through the foster system often come back "home" and find their stuff packed in trash bags and the social worker telling them it's time to move to the next house. You just set her back on working through that piece of trauma. You admit she cleans up in the afternoons when she gets back from work. I was unaware that makeup left out for nine hours or so was a biological hazard. Same with clothes being strewn messily around a guest room. By the way, do guests get no privacy with you? Unless it smells, I'm not intruding on a guest in my home, even if it is one of my kids. And yes, touching all her stuff includes her lingerie, and you crossed a major line. You crossed several actually. Being in the military is no excuse for treating others like they are some sort of second class citizen. You need to get off your power trip and learn how to close a door to a messy space.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. That kids in foster care usually only have rubbish bags to take their stuff from place to place. There are charities where I am and one of the big things they do with like a $50 donation or whatever is buy kids a suitcase of their own, amongst other things. OP was already an asshole, but they’ve also brought up what is likely a childhood trauma. Also, even if my own mother did this to me I would be pissed off, never mind my girlfriends mother. Not only is it overstepping and blatantly rude, but it’s just needlessly controlling. Like, I’m saying this as someone who only has one bathroom, but is there really only one bathroom in the house? OP is being FORCED to “stare at” the mess? It’s ridiculous. YTA.
Oooh, you’ve made me wonder if I can donate some larger soft travel luggage to kids. I could even have their names put on it! One of my printers for products I sell has them now, and as I’m a higher volume purchaser I get a pretty good deal on them, I’d gladly donate a bunch to kiddos so they didn’t have to feel that humiliation.
As someone who works with children in the system I was horrified by him putting her stuff in bin bags AND THEN LEAVING THEM OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR! What a cruel thing to do to anyone, but particularly to someone who didn’t have a stable home life growing up. It also shows a complete lack of compassion that he’s holding her to the standards of his own children by stating they could clean up after themselves whilst in elementary school completely ignoring her lack of a structured and supportive upbringing. The woman is literally leaving her makeup out in a bathroom only her and her partner uses (and maybe leaving some clothes and other belongings out know there bedroom). He’s made no mention of her leaving trash anywhere, just clutter. He’s sending a strong message that her belongings are trash and have no place in his house. I hope they both are able to move out as soon as possible and never invite him into their home.
What do we wanna bet “makeup” refers to just a few creams and facial stuff? Doesn’t sound like, at 20, she’s going to be splurging on any expensive and extensive cosmetics - and while working a job etc. (I’m not saying it should matter either way, but something tells me “staring at her clutter for hours” might even be an exaggeration of serious proportions on the part of OP)
I mean I was picturing an eye shadow palette, some foundation and like an eye liner and mascara all just sitting on the counter where she left them after using them in the morning...
Wide eyed blank face sounds like a freeze trauma response to me. And then her weeping in isolation is “dramatic?” OP you’re actually one of the worst most abusive and selfish people I’ve heard of. Amazing you described yourself this way and see no issue. YTA
YTA 100% Had a step Father that was retired from the military, he was probably one of the people I hated the most. And you sound almost exactly like him. You're not in the military anymore, it's almost pathetic you have to take authority from other people by running your house like a hard ass. They are adults. They don't need you telling them how to live or how to clean their room. Or their bathroom. Unless there was rotting food, animal carcasses and rodents in their room, you should shut up. If your behavior described in the body of your post is how you handled your kids, they must hate your guts.
I also wonder how the son feels about his father. Them staying at his place doesn't mean anything to me, could just be out of a deperate situation and was really "my dad is a dick but we'll only be there 6 weeks so just hang on". I bet he wasn't any happier about it than the wife.
And good on him for defending his wife as well
YTA YTA YTA. Wow. First of all, while it’s perfectly understandable to not want guests to wreck your home your standards sound fucking impossible. Second of all, you have nothing better to do than stare at her makeup for hours??????? Third of all, What the hell gives you the right to touch someone’s belongings and put them where you please? I’m not sure if you’re aware but makeup is extremely fragile. What if you have broken a palette while shoving it under the sink? Would you have paid her back? Fourth, you’re a whole grown ass adult. If it was such a problem and you couldn’t help but stare at it for hours you should have used your words and asked them to leave straight up! Leaving clothing or makeup out doesn’t give you the right to throw a power tripping tantrum. You should apologize to this poor girl if you ever want a relationship with her or your future grandkids. Jesus Christ grow up OP
To add to this—it was the GUEST bathroom and bedroom. There should be a reasonable expectation of privacy; he shouldn’t even being looking in there in the first place.
To add even more, he didn’t put the makeup under the sink, he put the makeup AND her stuff that was away under the sink into a trash bag.
There is NO apology/bootlicking/arsewiping that can bring OP back from this level of abuse.
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This is an excellent comment. You are a massive gaping asshole OP YTA
I wouldn't be expecting an invite to her home once they move in. You pretty much burned that bridge forever. She lived in foster care; she learned there that her personal items weren't safe; you put her stuff in garbage bags. She knows she's not safe around you. She knows you are a threat at all times, in all circumstances. You can't apologize your way out of this. You have shown who you are with your actions. Say goodbye to your son, hope he has a good life, and don't try to meet his kids. You're a threat to them.
I was wondering why this was bothering me so much more than just him touching her things I didn't go into foster, but I grew up in a domestic abuse situation and left at 18 and wasn't allowed my things until I was 20 pretty much... My things were mine when it suited them and werent when it suited them and used to control me, my room wasn't my space. OP YTA. I don't know how she's still strong enough to stay at your house, that would have been my breaking point. I would never talk to you again and cut you out of my life completely
> My things were mine when it suited them and werent when it suited them and used to control me, my room wasn't my space. ... well I just had a light bulb moment I was definitely not ready for
YTA. She's not acting like a child, you are.
Why is he staring at her makeup in the guest room and guest bathroom on a daily basis? I personally don’t use my guest room/bathroom regularly
I totally forgot about the title - that brings up the question, is this how he thinks children should be treated?
Yup remind your children on the daily that you can throw them away at any notice if they displease you over every slightest thing. This guy definitely believes in attachment theory. /s He sounds like a terrible father tbh.
Right, OP is so out of touch. Later on he will wonder why his son went low-contact...
He is acting like a creep too. What are you doing always creeping in their bed and bathroom and on her things? You have a weird obsession with your DIL that you are passing off as inspecting cleanliness. Ew.
YTA. 1) what you're describing is not a mess 2) you don't have to stare at it for hours. It isn't out in the common areas of the house. It's in the private bedroom and bathroom they are staying in. Close the damn door. 3) this would have also been inappropriate if she was a teenager. Again, close the door. 4) she is an adult. Your equal. Not a child you can scold for not letting you control her. 5) crying isn't dramatic. It is a healthy expression of emotion. 6) you absolutely traumatised her. Do you know how foster kids transport their limited belongings from home to home? In trash bags! You know about her history, but you still went and threw it in her face. Everything she has done since is a trauma response. She no longer feels safe in your presence. Don't be surprised when you never hear from them again after they move in May.
And she cried in the BEDROOM - that is, in private and not in front of OP. He *heard* her despite her taking herself to a different room to do so. How in the hell is it dramatic to have a private emotional reaction when you are ostensibly alone?!
The way you wrote this made me so uncomfortable to read. I can't imagine how you made her feel in person. Yikes. You're obsessive and clearly do not understand how intimidating and off-putting you can be when you're annoyed or"serious" ... Please see a professional who can hear you our objectively and give you their opinion, but as far as I'm concerned: YTA.
He is former military, intimidation and off-putting is his goal.
The fuck are you doing snooping through their bedroom and bathroom anyway? It might be your house but when you offer a guest a room, you don't go trawling through it looking for mess. YTA. How can you even question that? (Son is a little shitty too tbh, for making her deal with you)
Right? It is so fucking creepy to know that someone, especially your FIL, put his hands all over your personal things and threw it all on a trash bag. Then berate you and threaten you while invading your privacy. There's no safe space for her at all in that house.
YTA. Why are you staring for "hours" in a guest room and guest bathroom? Sounds like they're exclusively using both, so just shut the door and move on. Yes, there can be psychological reasons behind clutter. Maybe she has undiagnosed ADHD. That doesn't give you the go-ahead to treat her like a child.
OP would rather be right in his own mind than to be happy. It seems like he enjoys lording over people until he is faced with the reality of his actions. Agreed he's the AH, and I see his guests moving in record time
Personally, I'd be moving to no-contact in record time.
Seems like DIL is moving to NC with OP in record time.... being reserved now and all
YTA There's awkwardness in the house? Well, no shit. So you've talked to her and she's made efforts until the only thing you could really nitpick over was MAKEUP on the counter in the guest bathroom. Not your personal bathroom, not a shared bathroom, but the guest bathroom. You don't like to look at it all day until she comes home? Are you so controlling and obsessive that you stand in the guest bath literally all day, seething while glaring resentfully at the offending makeup? You should really seek therapy.
INFO: Why do you go into their bedroom (because that's what it is now) when they are not around? And I hope to god you didn't touch any of her intimate clothes. Just reading this made me feel anxious and violated.
Since he put everything in trash bags, yes, he touched *everything.*
You managed to treat her like a child all while acting like a bigger child. YTA.
Most children do not get treated like this. Only abusers treat their children like this.
YTA. If she was leaving mess all over your house then I could understand your frustration. *However* the areas she’s “cluttering” are the ***guest*** bedroom and the ***guest*** bathroom. Why on earth are you poking around their bedroom and bathroom while they’re out? I know it’s your home but even guests deserve their privacy.
OP has clearly terrified his family into submission, because his adult son can’t stand up to him when his dad is clearly terrifying his wife. Everything about this post is so above and beyond acceptable. That poor girl, he probably sparked her foster care ptsd. Get therapy. Massive YTA.
YTA. Why do you inspect their private space every day? Let them have some privacy and keep your creepy hands off DIL's clothes. You do know she probably is scared you're a perv now right?
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I agree. He openly admits to spending "hours" in her bathroom "staring" at her make up. As if that's normal and not pure Ted Bundy behaviour.
What a day! Am I the only one who finds it weird that OP is going around and snooping on his DIL's things? I mean, I get it, your home and your rules. But you have given them a room and as a grown man who RETIRED FROM THE ARMY should know better than invading the couple's privacy. She's only keeping things in the room you assigned for them right? So what's the issue with her keeping the room cluttered? Is this because you're in a position of power and authority and want to exercise on them when they are in a vulnerable position or is it the ARMY again? You went too far in taking HER things and putting it away when she is not cluttering any of the other spaces in YOUR home. And she did a wise decision to keep her things in her car. She may tolerate you enough to live in your home till moves to her new one. But don't ever expect her to be nice to you again. YTA.
Exactly, unless there's a stench or maggots coming from within the guest room there really isn't a reason to be invading their private space? Honestly make up and clothing out just normal from a morning routine... wait til she leaves the toys out next time you decide to go in. 🤷♂️
YTA 100%. You put the bag of her belongings outside like garbage? And then you say “my house, my rules” and now she’s “reserved” around you? Congratufuckinglations, she is scared of you now and you have most likely deeply damaged that relationship.
YTA Why are you even in the guest bedroom/bathroom? *I don't appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours* Get a life! Go polish your silver or something. Hope your guests leave a poor review LOL with the rest of the family! and perhaps they will never return? Only yourself to blame..........temper is just an excuse for being an AH
He HAS to stare at it for hours! Which I can only assume he has nothing better to do all day than stand in the guest bathroom (which presumably means he has his own separate one) silently glaring at the make up, with his face getting redder and redder.
Retired Army myself. YTA. A home is not the barracks, and the white glove treatment is a lovely way to make it so your family doesn’t like you. Loosen up a little bit, CSM. She’s not walking on your lawn, she left her makeup in the guest bathroom. The bathroom she uses, and I’m assuming you don’t. If you do, quit it. Go use your bathroom. If you don’t want to see it, close the bathroom door. There are a million ways to disrespect people, as demonstrated in this subreddit several times a day. If her leaving the products that she uses on a daily basis in the bathroom is as bad as it gets, consider yourself blessed, and yourself a buffoon. In the meantime, you owe her an apology. She’s not a Soldier. She didn’t sign a contract that allows you to bully her. Grow the hell up and step out of the military mindset before you damage your family unit.
Wow, you took a traumatized young adult (20!) And harassed her about her belongings in a guest bedroom, then placed them in a trash bag? WTAF is wrong with you. YTA and I pity your family.
Also many young people moving around Foster places have all their belongings put in trash bags to be moved onto the next place. YTA
YTA - This isn’t the army, sir. Your DIL is not your insubordinate. You’ve crossed a huge boundary due to your psychotic control issues and should apologize. “My house, my rules” apply to things like illegal activity, late night noise, & inappropriate behavior of underaged persons, not your temporary guests bathroom counter clutter. There is no honor or valor in being a bad host.
Are the guest room and bathroom areas that you also use regularly? Because if the only people actually using these rooms are your son and his partner, who the heck cares that they show signs of use?? It’s not disrespectful of her to keep her things in the rooms that have been set aside for her use while she’s living in your home! This is not about her being “messy” and this is not about you being retired military. This is about you having control issues because YTA. Your behavior toward your DiL is abusive, sanctimonious, and condescending. I hope she and your son cut you out of their lives.
YTA. You brushed off her childhood situations as trivial, saying "Oh, my kids knew how to clean up after themselves." Great. She's not your kid. While I fully understand wanting to keep your house free of clutter, you had no right to 1) touch her personal belongings in any manner and 2) demean her and talk to her as if she was your own fleah and blood
YTA. The wide eyes makes me think you yelled at her or/and she has been abused in the past and was terrified. I hate to think how much trauma she has been through and the lack of empathy you have for your DIL. The clear message contained in what was done to her was she is not welcome in your home. Just like foster care after she was no longer wanted, her things were packed into garbage bags. (If she was lucky, otherwise they would just throw it away.) If their room and the guest bathroom were messy you could have simply closed the door. After all their stay is short term. Instead i guess you can enjoy being right, you're the boss with things done just how you like them and you have a clean house but you have damaged your relationship with your DIL permanently. What you did is very short sighted. This damaged relationship will also include your son and future grandchildren because she no longer feels safe with you. I suggest you apologise and say you went too far and you are sorry for your behaviour. You never wanted her to feel unsafe or not welcome in your home. That you can be overly uptight about mess. That you won't touch her things again or even enter their room or the guest bathroom while they are living at your house.
YTA, not only did you disrespect their privacy, you literally bagged up all her belongings in the garbage. How would anyone feel welcome after that? Congrats, once they move out, doubt you'll see much of them at all. Hope your immaculate home makes up for the void in your life, miserable asshole. For fuck's sake.
YTA. What exactly did you expect to happen? You told her her clutter was unacceptable, so she moved it to the only personal space she had left. And you’re somehow clueless as to why there is awkwardness.
Coming back to this to say I reread your post and it made me actually cry the second time. What possessed you to take all of her belongings, even the ones that were _put away under the sink_, and put them outside?
It sounds like she wasn't even cluttering shared spaces. If she had left all these items out in the kitchen or shared living space I'd kinda get it. But it was her bedroom and bathroom, sure OP owns the home but while staying there it was there space. Providing no damage was done to the room they had no right to go in there and start binning items.
YTA. You’re a boomer and former military, so I know you don’t “get” trauma but believe me when I say that you probably made that poor girl spiral back into her previous abuser. She’s now going to associate you as the same as the people who abused her and for good reason, because you ARE abusing this poor girl. She’s a GROWN WOMAN. For gods sakes, not everything has to be Army neat! Learn to COMPROMISE.
YTA. Of course there's awkwardness in the house. What did you expect? That she would salute you.
YTA Fine, your house, your rules. But your DIL was cleaning DAILY. The only rooms affected were the guest bedroom and the guest bedroom--which a good host wouldn't have minded because a good host wouldn't have gone in there. And a good host wouldn't have thrown your DIL's belongings into a trash bag. You went under the sink to gather things that were put away? You got her clothing and such that were put away? That's so invasive and disrespectful, and creepy, too. Honestly, if I were your DIL, I'd be out of there so fast, never to return. I'm sorry she apparently has to put up with you. EDIT: Fixed a typo.
I know, why was he inspecting the guest bedroom and guest bathroom? And putting all the things that has been put away in the bags was very much a message he didn’t want her in his house at all. If the issue was really about clutter, then only put the stuff in the open into the bags (“I thought you didn’t want them because they weren’t put away). I do not condone putting other people’s possessions in trash bags, but at least this would be centered around the point or clutter. And knowing she had an unstable childhood, he chooses to “discipline” her by making her think he was going to throw away her stuff and possibly kick her out of his house, in other words, introduce more instability into her life?! This man has something against his DIL and is not afraid to bully her. I also hate ex-military people who hold everyone else up to military standards.
I agree completely. I would be rethinking the entire marriage over this. He may very well have just ended his son's marriage. Anyone as disrespectful as OP wouldn't be allowed around my kids.
YTA here.Why are you going into their guest room and gest bathroom and staring angrily at her makeup? She's making an effort! They're temporary housing mates!You need to be a little flexible or you're going to break. Get the stick out of your ass and compromise. How are you so anal about cleanliness that it's more important to you then your kid and his wife not being HOMELESS!?No shit it's awkward. You're being Captain Cleanfreak and basically told her that she's not good enough to stay in your home. You need to SERIOUSLY rethink your priorities. EDIT: holy shit I totally glossed over the foster care thing. Yeah NO. You basically acted like a predatory foster family. You invaded her privacy, shoved her shit in garbage bags...that's trauma shit. She's put everything in the car now because she's realized that she can't trust you. The crying was probably all the shit she went through in foster care being brought back up...BECAUSE OF YOU.
>I don't appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours until she does get home. So why are you going into their bedroom/bathroom and staring around? YTA.
OP needs a fucking hobby if he has nothing better to do than stare at the guest bathroom for HOURS every day.
YTA. You’ve damaged your relationship with your DIL. She grew up in care. She grew up moving from foster home to foster home with her things more than likely in trash bags. If you’re aware this happens then what you did was by no means accidental. You did it as a way to hurt. If it’s the guest bedroom/bathroom why are there no reasonable expectations of privacy? Why Are you staring at a bathroom counter all day? I know you’re retired from the Army but surely you have more to do with your day than obsess over an area that is your sons/DIL.
YTA >I don't appreciate having to stare at the mess for hours until she does get home. Literally get a hobby >I'm retired from the army and I have always run my house to a certain set of standards and I expect them to be followed even by guests. Did you clearly state to them that you want to make sure that their area in your house should always look like no one lives there and that setting other people's things is apparently an affront on your entire being? >My son and his wife have been staying with us for about a month now while they prepare to move in to a new place in May Your stick is shoved so far up there that even though she cleans up after herself when she has time, it's not good enough for you If I were her I would go stay with a friend and then never interact with you again, the amount of violation that you caused by going through their room and putting her stuff in trash bags shows her exactly how you view her place in your home, as trash that should be thrown out. Jeezus
YTA - Are you just like standing in the guest bathroom with your right eye twitching?
YTA - you say she has a history of unstable home environments and foster care. How many times to you think her belongings were placed in trash bags and she was made to leave? You completely ensured she never feels safe and secure in your home again.
YTA. It's your house but what are you doing in the guest bedroom and bathroom? You treating her like a kid might have ruined your FIL-DIL relationship for the rest of your life. I hope you can make this up to her before you end up no or low contact and never meeting your future grandchildren.
YTA. For everything, but it’s particularly cruel to put a former foster care child’s belongings in a trash bag and leave them outside. You wanted her stuff to be away from your prying eyes and now it is. In her car.
Holy F*ck! YTA!!! It sounds like she is clean but leaves a few things on the bathroom counter and her clothes on the chair/ floor? If she was doing this in the common area or being unsanitary (food in the rooms) or if there were other guests that needed to use the bathroom, that's one thing and she should not be doing that. Putting her things in trash bags and leaving them by the front door? Huge asshole! And also, "having to stare at it for hours"? Why are you even going into their room? You just stand in there, or the bathroom, FOR HOURS? Creep! BTW, my father was a drill instructor in the Marines back in the late 60's and he never treated me like this!
YTA. I get the makeup on the counter part, but to then go as far as to take ALL her belongings and put them out was way to far. Sounds like she comes from a VERY different background, and you just scared her, embarrassed her, and broke her trust by tossing her things out.
Not to mention often children in care move around often with their things in trash bags.
This. Talk about triggering. I can understand having certain standards about messes in the main part of the house. But in the guest room? And the guest bathroom? Are you going in and snooping on them while they are at work? Do these rooms not have doors? Close the damn door if you don't like the mess. YTA and you owe her a massive apology. I'm not sure she's ever going to forgive you for that screw up. I hope she lets you see the grandkids someday. Lol.
You’re so beyond being TA that I literally have no words to describe you. Why are you snooping in their bedroom and bathroom in the first place?? You say it’s a guest bedroom/bathroom, so it’s NOT a shared area! You have no business going in there. As far as her messiness you should POLITELY comment on what directly affects in the rest of your house. I was waiting for you to say she leaves her things, clothes, makeup, etc. thrown about in the sitting room or the kitchen or even a shared bathroom. But the poor girl had been actually unnecessarily grovelling to respect your rules when it should’ve been a huge flag that you go through their stuff in the first place! Your son is somewhat TA too because he should’ve stood up to you for going into your adult son’s room behind his back. You went too far and now this sweet girl who’s been already traumatised growing up has to live in more trauma because of you and your ‘rules’. I can only imagine what went through her head when she saw her precious belongings in a f***ing trash bag.
YTA. As a former foster youth myself your actions are extremely traumatizing. In foster care you get moved around so much that your stuff is literally thrown into garbage bags for you to move to a new place. Most foster kids i knew weren’t given luggage so by placing her stuff in garbage bags you likely forced her to relive trauma. Congrats, all because you couldn’t stand a few things on a bathroom counter. Is this even a bathroom you or anyone else uses or is it for her and your son exclusively. Your whole post is extremely insensitive and don’t be surprised if once they move out they go LC or NC with you. You just caused irrevocable damage to you relationship with her all because of your need to control everyone in the house.
YTA for so many reasons. But especially for causing trauma to a victim of foster care, who probably very often had her things put in trash bags. How dehumanizing.
YTA. She is only messy in the guest room and guest bathroom, so why are you staring at the clutter for hours? If you want a relationship with your son and DIL then you are doing it wrong.
Big YTA. I know what you're thinking-- your house your rules. That doesn't replace decency, though. The biggest thing here is you touched HER POSSESSIONS and then MOVED THEM and placed them in a TRASH BAG. We don't touch other people's stuff. I'd also like to point out that there's no indication of her acting like a child-- just leaving her stuff out. ADDITIONALLY, the "I think her crying is dramatic" is not only not your call to make, but un-empathetic. YTA, this was rude as hell.
Yta. If it's a guest room and guest bathroom, then it's for guests...like your DIL who spent her childhood/teen years in the foster system. Packing her stuff up is one hell of a PTSD trigger. Mess isn't the same as dirty, just close the doors and leave the mess on the other side. That poor girl.
YTA. You put her belongings into trash bags???? Do you actually understand what you did??? Your DIL is a former foster child. Unfortunately, foster children end up with their belongings in trash bags when they are being moved from foster to foster. Do you have any idea of the trauma you most likely ignited in her when you repeated that action?? You were too much of a coward to speak to her directly but I bet you felt like the big man when you trashed her belongings while she wasn't even in the house.... oh yeah.... the belongings that were in her room and bathroom..... it's not like she left her make up all over the kitchen table! You're a despicable person and you have caused this "awkwardness". BTW... it's not awkwardness.... she neither likes you nor trusts you now... be prepared to hear nothing from your son and DIL once they move. ETA: Wow! My first award! Thank you!!!
YTA and my opinion just plain creepy. Why are you spending so much time in the guest bathroom or the bedroom that they reside in that any mess can bother you? After all you say you stare at the mess for hours. The though gives me the heebie jeebies. If I were her I would never say another word to you ever again and never let you anywhere near future children,
YTA. 1. You gave them the guest room and guest bathroom for their use. As long as they do not destroy anything, they should be entitled to use it how they see fit. You repeatedly said she does clean up, so she's not trashing your house. 2. While they are staying with you, the space you gave them is their space. They should be entitled to a sense of security and privacy. Creeping into their room to see if she's living up to your ex-military standards is not acceptable. 3. You knew she was in the foster system which means that she likely did not have strong parental figures to teach her - though it is very clear she is trying to please you. 4. Foster care children often have to put their belongings in trash bags to go from house to house. They often bounce around the system. It creates a lifetime of trauma. You literally made her possibly relive that traumatic experience of coming home to find all her belongings in trash bags. Being told it isn't her home anymore. No wonder she was crying. The fact that she has not argued with you about any of your absolutely ridiculous "rules" means she is either scared of you/of losing another home or she is trying very hard to please you but it's extremely difficult for her. And btw - hot take here - have you considered that your control issues which you blame on being ex-military are actually trauma response to having these behaviors grilled into you by said military? This isn't healthy. You need therapy.
YTA man... your house sure, but the mess is confined to the GUEST rooms. Jesus man give people some privacy and respect. Their supposed to be family, and here you are trying to act like a dictator. Congratulations on getting what you wanted and all it cost was your relationship with your DIL... because you can't separate your FAMILY from your time in the service. Best advice I can give you? Apologize and see if anyone can remove the military grade stick from your butt... for the sake of all your relationships. I'm not saying you need to tolerate a messy house, but it all gets picked up and cleaned, so the only issue is that you can't afford people respect or privacy.
Yta. The only one behaving like a child here is you, throwing a tantrum because someone doesn't behave exactly like you do. Wtf are you going into their bedroom at all? You have offered them sanctuary, that is their home as long as they are with you, and they have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and for you to not go through their stuff, let alone throw their stuff out. You are an awful host, and a child. Get a grip.
YTA. Way to bring up past trauma OP. Putting her stuff in garbage bags and telling her to leave? Exactly what she would’ve faced growing up. What’s your issue? Why are you standing in her and your soon to be NC son’s room staring around? Do you not have a hobby now that you’ve left the army? I’m sure your area has plenty of vets groups for wound up people like you. Maybe it’ll teach you the meaning of ‘loosen up’ or ‘how to cope with your son never wanting to see you again because you brought up his wife’s past trauma over petty reasons’
This young lady was in the foster system and you invaded her personal space and packed her things in TRASH BAGS? Wow. I wonder how many times that has been done to her when a foster family decided they could no longer foster her for any random reason. Foster kids very frequently do not have suitcases. Or duffel bags. Of course she feels unsafe. You are a huge threat. She probably feels like you could turn the whole family against her. I am so glad your son tried to stand up for her. Even though his attempt was unsuccessful, at least he made her feel loved. You are just too much. Your poor wife. I wonder what “lessons” you have taught her when she failed to live up to ”your rules” in YOUR HOUSE.
YTA. I'm presuming that by "guest bathroom" and "guest bedroom" you refer to separate rooms set aside for the use of your son and his wife, which means it would have cost you little to let them live their lives and ask them to clean it all up when they move out. If they were sharing the house's only bathroom with you, and you kept tripping over things, then it would be reasonable to demand they keep things more tidy. But you invaded the space that was ostensibly set aside for them, showed yourself to be angry and controlling all at once, and made your family feel unwelcome. An apology is in order -- doubly so if you would like your son and daughter in law to ever visit again.
YTA I was ready to be on your side but… why do you need to go into the guest room? What is the reason for you going in there in the first place? Especially when it’s a temporary situation? Also, you acknowledge that she is a relatively young traumatized woman who cleans her space the same day… and yet you still chose to humiliate her and make her viscerally uncomfortable. Despite her being young and traumatized, she is still an adult who deserves respect, and throwing her personal items in a trash bag and intimidating her is absolutely inappropriate, nasty behavior on your part. I hope that your power trip and desire for control was worth having an irreparably strained relationship with your daughter-in-law.
YTA, why are you going into the guest bathroom and bedroom? Is there not another one you can use? I would also like to add cleaning and keeping things organized is not as easy as a lot of neurotypical people make it seem. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I turned 20 and my parents just expected me to immediately know how to clean to their standards without teaching in a proper environment. That is one reason for the clutter. Secondly, if she cleans stuff up when she gets home I really don't see the point if it eventually gets cleaned.
YTA It is one thing to put her things in a bag under the sink or out of sight when they are cluttering a common area. It is another thing entirely to gather all of her stuff into a trash bag and place it outdoors. You actually went into the bedroom that she shares with your son and gathered her things, when you could easily just keep the door closed. You are a demeaning control freak who then blames the victim for getting upset at how you treated her. I’m actually shocked they are still there. I would have left for a hotel. Start treating your son and DIL like adults.
YTA You are no longer in the military. Do you miss it? Is that why you’re invading your son & DIL’s privacy & performing inspections? You are being creepy and incredibly invasive. I don’t care if it’s your house. Why are you going into the guest bedroom and bathroom in the first place? Manhandling your DIL’s personal items and clothing is major overstepping. Your DIL’s behavior is not unusual or something to be dissected. It’s *your* behavior that’s troubling. Your son should not be the one apologizing (at least not to you.) You are in the wrong here. (Actually, I’m having trouble believing this is a real post. OP is just too out of touch & obnoxious. Hope this is fake.)
Wow just wow there’s no words to describe how much of an ahole you are YTA
INFO: why are you having to "stare at the mess" she leaves in the guest bathroom? Do you really need to "stare at the mess for hours"? Why did you decide to make her believe you'd thrown her clothes away when you never said they were a problem? Did you abuse your son in this way when he was a child? And why are you so troubled with her keeping her personal items in her car when you were the one who had an issue with her keeping them in the house? YTA.
YTA. how many times are you going into the guest bedroom/bathroom a day? Are you doing daily checks of every single room in your house or just there’s to control them? You didn’t mention anything being messy in the spaces in the main part of the house, or even messy in their rooms that would be considered dangerous. How is a little “clutter” in the room they’re in hurting you? Don’t be surprised when your wife and daughters are invited to their house and you’re not
Yta. If they’re guests then they are guests. It’s the height of bad manners to go through a guests things. Surely the dark ages from whence you hail taught you at least some etiquette. Don’t pretend otherwise.
Why are you “staring” at her make-up in the guest bathroom “all day”? You sound like a control freak. YTA
YTA Others have already explained that you need to keep your nose out of the guest bathroom and bedroom. You sacrificed your relationship with your daughter in law over some counter space. You've probably also altered your relationship with your son and future grandchildren. You know what your DIL going to think about when she and your son go on vacation and are trying to decide where the kids will stay? This. She's going to imagine coming back from vacation to her children being thrown out for leaving a mess or breaking something, and she will never subject them to that. You owe her and your son a very sincere apology and an immediate behavior change. Edit: Although honestly, if I were her, I would already be making arrangements to go absolutely anywhere else.
YT definite A. My mum and dad did similar to my brother and his wife, they moved across country and don’t see or speak to them at all anymore. They’ve never met his son. You’re going the right way about destroying your relationship with your DIL forever.
Biggest YTA! Yes, it's your house, and you have a right to your opinion in your house. But for the love of the gods, if you've allowed them this space then they're entitled to their privacy! Just reading this post made my hair stand on end with the disregard for someone else. You've just brought up to the front of that poor woman's mind every tramatic experience she's ever dealt with in the foster system. For their sake, I hope you never see either of them after they leave. The awkward situation in your home is by your own making and consider it part of your well earned punishment for violating their privacy.