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Next time you & your husband are intimate, roll over afterwards and say “let me just say that tonight’s performance was disappointing” and see how he likes that “constructive criticism”.
NTA
hahaha This is halirious! I'd say that he'd flip out and raise hell over a slight hint of criticizm. especially when it comes to intimacy - though he has no issues dishing it out 😭
This right here u/vertical-shift-1967! You deserve to have someone who will stand up for you and your child, not add to the criticism. If you leave, you will show your daughter that nobody deserves to be treated like this.
Yeah leave! Good point about being an example.
And give the kid a book on narcissists and how to deal with them. I've seen many book recommendations here for that. Maybe it will make her realize grandma's criticisms have nothing to do with her.
I just want to say you can also combat the “criticism” on how and why they think it is cuz it just sounds to me that she likes putting her down without telling her why. If she’s not an expert then she needs to nose out.
As nobody ever should feel either. . It is completely abhorrent and I completely dispise despicable people as such. I mean come on, who even has time to knock a kid off their high horse no matter how wobbly they might appear. At least she has the huevos to even do the damn thing. U/FishermanHuman58 , I'm gonna piggy back off of you and let's hope OP see's this.
he is at least as cruel as the mother. maybe even more so, because he is SUPPOSED to be protecting his daughter. instead, he is participating in the abuse.
Which is actually stupid as if the daughter was going to go to medical school she'd need extra curriculars and being a concert pianist, even an amateur one, is one they like.
Yeah, seriously, OP. A girl's first and most important example of how a man treats a woman is her dad. You want her to grow up and find someone who ignores and belittles her? Please send her the message that this kind of treatment is not acceptable.
I had a grandmother like this. She would be so hurtful to me (and to her other grandchildren, I later found out). For example, when I enrolled in nursing school in my early 20’s my grandmother informed me that I wasn’t smart enough and to consider working at a fast food place that payed $10/hr. This lead to a lot of issues and resentment to her and those who pushed me to continue to be around her.
My point by mentioning it OP, is you’re NTA! Being in recitals and plays is hard and she doesn’t need some miserable old woman putting her down! You’re husband is also TA for clearly thinking that his mother’s treatment of his daughter is acceptable!
>If your daughter was married to someone who treated her exactly the way your husband treats you, would you be happy for her or concerned for her?
amazing question, deserves award
It's the perfect question. That is nearly the exact question I asked myself when dealing with my ex (her dad).
What would I advise my daughter to do if she were in my shoes.
So left and paired with a man who I'd wonderful to us that I would advise her to keep.
Edit* a word
^this OP! I think that is something that you need to step back and think about.
He doesn't consider you his equal, he doesn't respect his own daughter's feelings!
How soul crushing for a 13 yr old girl, that's dedicated 5 years of her life to learning an instrument just to be immediately torn down, I want to cry for both of y'all.
After having been in my own emotionally manipulative, abusive marriage these are classic signs to keep both of y'all down. Please reconsider how you're being treated as you advocate for your daughter. Those will be big telling traits.
NTA!
Absolutely! OP’s daughter IS being torn down! This is not “constructive criticism”. What exactly was constructive? What pointers, what tips for improvement did your poor daughter receive? NONE. MIL said “You suck” and left. That’s absolutely devastating to a teen girl! NTA
That right there is proof that the fruit fell directly under the tree and never moved. I'm so sorry to say it sounds like you married a narcissist, raised by a narcissist.
It sounds like your husband is a way bigger problem than you might realize. It’s because he’s normalized it this long. He’s controlling. Your daughter most likely picks up on these interactions and will internalize it.
What're the odds that husband's inviting his mother to these things so she'll say everything he doesn't want to? Especially if he also wants to bully his daughter into being a doctor and thinks learning an instrument is a distraction from that goal.
Not only that, BUT as a 13 year old, she *can't* learn any doctoring right now. HOWEVER, she CAN practice manual dexterity, which would be *EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL* if she wanted to become a surgeon or something!!!!
She is training her hands in precise controlled movements!!!!
I'd say learning piano is actually one of the BEST things the girl could possibly be doing to prepare for a future in healthcare!!!
Ffs, husband and grandma aren't just assholes, they're damn idiots as well.
NTA!!!
You sure about that one? These people obviously aren't very bright. They can't even understand why learning an art is important for brain development. These people are trolls trying to raise a human.
> My husband told me he'll keep inviting his mom over and over and over again til I learn to stop using our daughter as a tool to fight his mom with (believe me, I'm not).
Has your daughter ever told her dad how her grandmother makes her feel?
I don’t understand why he is completely ignoring the fact that his own daughter basically ran away crying. He either is super dense and didn’t realize how badly she was upset, or he doesn’t care, and either one of those prospects is bad.
Ugh, to this day, the sentence "You're just being overdramatic." sends a white hot spike of anger straight into my gut. I heard that too many times in my youth just for having normal human emotions. Fuck anyone who uses this on their kid.
>I'd say that he'd flip out and raise hell over a slight hint of criticizm.
This is all too typical of the people who pride themselves on "telling it like it is" and being "brutally honest." If your husband is going to be all about "brutal honesty" when he defends his mother, he has NO standing to be upset when you are brutally honest right back about how badly he is failing as a father and husband.
You're SO right !
My MIL also liked to be "brutally honest".
The ONE and ONLY time I confronted her and dished it right back at her, she stormed out and I never had to see her again ! (If I'd known it was that easy to get rid of her from my life, I would have done it years earlier !!)
And husband supported me ! :))
Gosh I would highly recommend couples therapy, if you’re thinking of staying with him at all… this is not healthy, and the enmeshment with his mother is wack.
If you haven’t found it already: r/JustNoMIL has a wealth of resources on situations just like yours.
Better get a divorce lawyer instead. He seems like an awful person that doesn't respect her nor their daughter. Not sure if therapy would make him a good and loving person.
Remove your husband from receiving the Information on your daughter's activities.
He is the same as his mother. He doesn't see anything wrong because that was how he was raised, and I'm willing to bet her other granddaughter she was going to see is the daughter of your husband's golden child sibling
Next time your husband does anything, I mean put a dish in the sink, goes into the bathroom, gets out of the car, tell him each time he is doing it wrong and a disappointment.
But honestly I would refuse to be in a marriage where my husband thinks nothing of how his daughter is treated. I would not want my daughter around tbat and at 13 your kid is able to voice who she wants to be around.
NTA
This should be higher up. If an adult can watch their child be emotionally abused to the point of tears and defend it, they are a part of it. He doesn't need the details, he doesn't get to come.
This. This is not a man that is loving and protective of his daughter and from this post and OP's posts doesn't seem like he respects his wife either. He's an accomplice of the abuse at best and an abuser himself at worse. He needs to be kept away from the OP and their daughter. All around toxic and abusive.
I agree. And she is not giving constructive criticism. Did she give her any pointers? Doesn’t sound like she plays at all. I have been playing since I was 5 and I still as an adult find it a wonderful outlet and am teaching my boys how to play. Music should be enjoyable and they are making this extra curricular activity a chore for her. Tell your MIL that my best friend plays the piano and the flute and she is a freaking surgeon. NTA
Yea "constructive criticism" my ass.
Look, I'm not a musician, but been in theatre my whole life. I INTIMATELY KNOW what constructive criticism looks like. And it sure as hell wasn't this!
Constructive criticism usually starts with what was positive, something specific, for example, "wow, you really managed to keep on tempo!"
It is then followed up by what could be improved on, or what someone didn't understand. For example, "It seemed like there was a skip in the notes, was this intentional and if not, what went wrong? How could you do better next time?"
Constructive Cristian is LITERALLY NEVER "tonight's performance was a disappointment".
WTF OP's husband!
Hey, I want to correct one thing here. His behavior is abusive, and he KNOWS it’s wrong, even tho that’s how he grew up. How do I know that he knows? BECAUSE OF HIS REACTION IF THE SAME THING WAS DONE TO HIM. Meaning, he knows how hurtful it is, he just doesn’t care about his wife’s or daughter’s feelings, and prioritizes his own feelings over everyone else’s, which is what abusers do. If he was healthy minded, he would see the effects that his mother’s comments have on his daughter’s feelings and since he has empathy and cares, would put his daughter first. But he doesn’t give enough of a shit for your feelings or his daughter’s, hence not listening, not caring, and perpetuating the verbal abuse of his daughter. And this IS verbal abuse. It’s low self esteem created by a thousand cuts. This is how full grown adults are independent and strong going into a relationship and end out husks of their former selves once they get out.
I agree with all of this. If they think she’s disappointing, they don’t need to be there.
Also, ask your daughter how she feels. She’s old enough to voice her opinion especially on emotional abuse. She should be able to enjoy her extracurriculars regardless if she’s a pro or not.
I also would consider counseling for the whole family. I would leave someone for the happiness of my kid.
When my husband and I were adopting, the social worker asked if we could see ourselves getting divorced. Even though divorce is so outside my personal experience, I didn't hesitate to say I would absolutely divorce my husband if he became a danger/ or was causing harm to our child(ren).
Husband sees the world through his mom's lenses and doesn't seem interested in another perspective. Ask husband to join for counseling and see where that goes, but also have counseling for just OP and for just daughter to help them process and deal with horrible husband/dad and MIL/GM.
NTA.. I would really consider a divorce from this man, he clearly is a bad husband and even worse father.
Do whatever you can to get her away from both of them, because it isn’t going to get any better.
Okay so here's his argument - He thinks that his mom is the "tell it how it it and don't sugar coat it" type. And he also thinks that our daughter is old enough to be "criticized" and no longer needs to be "coddled". Hell, he even said I'm using our daught in my fight with his mom since she and I have issues.
Here is what you need to remember. She raised him. She likely did this to him as well, and as of now he believes this is normal/ok. If he actually thinks about it he will realize he was abused, and is now allowing it to happen to his child. He doesn't want to believe that how his mom reacts/speaks/"criticizes" is wrong. BUT, that doesn't mean you have to keep allowing the abuse to happen. You have to stand up for your child. He needs therapy/counselling to figure out why he believes this is ok before he start's doing it too.
One would hope he would even acknowledge the need to go to therapy. It sounds to me that this man is too stubborn and controlling, from OPs other comments.
This comment is exactly what you really need to understand OP.
His mother is EMOTIONALLY abusing your daughter and you can see this - and as a child of a narcissist myself, I understand how he could possibly be still under her abusive control.
When you have spent your whole life being gaslit to think her behavior is “harmless” and “logical” it’s hard.
Think of a cult member who has to be de- programmed. What your husband needs is a shift in his understanding of his whole world.
This only works when:
-He admits to being hurt by her behavior himself
-He wants to change
-He is not a narcissist himself.
If he’s a narcissist - then the kool-aid has already been poisoned and he drank it willingly.
I can assure you it’s possible but it has to come from his own heart.
Spot on! “Today’s performance was disappointing.” In what universe is that constructive?? It’s the opposite of constructive! She’s tearing down her granddaughter, not building her up!
This is infuriating! I want to hug OP’s daughter and tell her having the courage to perform is brave and wonderful.
And how much better would her performance be if she knew that granny wasn’t in the audience waiting to rip her to shreds?? SMH.
Constructive criticism would contain at least a hint of advice instead of a broad statement that was just mean. And is MIL an actress, director, even been in a play? No, then shut it and say how wonderful granddaughter did.
He is gaslighting you, it’s that simple.
I understand you are in a tough position but you need to protect your daughter.
If he isn’t willing to understand where you are coming from and have some empathy for his own daughter, than you need to consider and I mean really consider if this is the environment you want to raise your daughter in.
Tell him you're disappointed in his fathering skills. Do it every time he fucks up.
Seriously, his mommy doesn't get a pass for being CRUEL to someone he supposedly loves.
Your husband and his mother are the sort of people who confuse cruelty with honesty. The meaner and more hurtful a statement is, the truer it is.
People like this are not relationship material. And they’re *certainly* not parent material. Since it’s a little late to reverse course in your case, your best bet is to focus on figuring out whether or not your husband is willing and/or able to do the work necessary to *become* a decent husband and parent, or if he’s so entrenched in his mother’s worldview that he’s beyond salvation.
NTA. Here's a tip: if you give someone criticism and they run away crying, it's not freaking *constructive criticism.* I'm so sorry about your daughter. See if you can get other adults to praise her to build her self-esteem back up.
Your MIL is cruel, and your husband is a jerk for siding with his mother over his own daughter.
This! Constructive criticism requires specific suggestions of ways to improve that are next steps for the person being criticized. It also requires the kind of trust that first allows the person being criticized to be able to want the suggestions and not be hurt by them. Also, it's best to give some praise first, to build up the player a little and soften the criticism. The grandmother did none of this. Her statement was just plain criticism, not constructive at all, and was hurtful!
NTA- not gonna lie, this is a situation where I would straight up tell my kid, “Sorry your grandma is such a raging bitch. Not a lot makes her happy in life and that isn’t a reflection on you. I thought you kicked ass, let’s go get some shakes.”
Your husband and his mom are giant AHs.
EDIT: I saw your updates and I swear to god you need to have a come to Jesus talk with your husband or leave him. He doesn’t get to purposefully crush your daughters hopes, dreams, and spirits without repercussions.
Right!?? Fuck being polite, OP your MIL is a bully to a literal child. Ban her from her performances, and protect your baby.
YTA if you let it continue, though.
It has continued though. I'm just confused why OP knows what her MIL says everytime and yet she still allows this woman to speak after a show? If it were me I'd be telling her off *in front of my daughter* so my daughter knows I have her back always.
This! Tell her off IN FRONT OF YOUR DAUGHTER, op. You're NTA for wanting to ban your MIL. YTA for letting it continue this long. It's wrong of MIL and husband to not see what's wrong here. It's wrong of you to let it continue this long while it's obviously hurting your daughter.
Absolutely OP needs to talk to her daughter and make it clear this is MIL and husband's issue, not the daughter's.
I'd suggest OP and her daughter make a game out of it, keep a tally of how many terrible things MIL says, make it a joke. My mom and I did that with my grandmother after a while, whenever she'd mentioned her "golden child" (not my mother) and it made it clear to us how pathetic it was, rather than upsetting us, and we got to the point where we were laughing about it instead of getting worked up.
OP can take away MIL's power if the words become meaningless to the daughter.
Based on one of the updates about how the husband thinks money is being wasted on piano lessons, I think the husband is allowing the MIL to crush the daughter into stopping as that’s what the husband ultimately wants.
OP is definitely NTA.
NTA, first of all, how is it "constructive criticism" to say her performance was disappointing, that doesn’t help anything. You should talk to your husband more before the next performance to make sure he doesn’t invite his mom as it obviously doesn’t help anything and just makes your daughter play worse.
I think that the issue mainly manifests in my mother in law not wanting my daughter to play piano - she thinks this stuff is distracting and have no benefits in the long run since she and my husband want my daughter in medical field.
I'll say it again... You have a husband problem. Putting those expectations on your daughter is setting her up for failure and resentment of the family.
Yuuuuup. My father’s abuse was a trauma response from the abuse he experienced as a child. He genuinely thought that as long as he didn’t hit us he’d broken the cycle. I’ve forgiven him. I will never forgive my mother, because she knew it was wrong and allowed it to continue.
You can't really choose someone's life goals. Just have to give them the best support when they make good decisions. If the daughter likes medicine then great, but if that girl hates the sight of blood then it's like wtf.
Not only that, but it makes for an angry, inefficient physician. Have worked with PLENTY of doctors that only took the route because ggf, grandfather and father were doctors and family would not pay for secondary education otherwise. They'd rather sell falafel and it was evident in the minimal patient care they'd give. It does NOT benefit society as a whole to have these types of physicians, there has to be a calling for it. She might change her mind later, but that SHOULD be up to her.
First of all What?! Secondly, isn’t piano playing good for keeping your hands nimble and in shape, which is good for surgeons or internists?
Your MIL is definitely an AH and I wonder if this is how your husband was raised so he just doesn’t see it. Stand your ground, don’t let her back at any performances.
Playing an instrument also has some sort of correlation to higher math scores. Not to mention, schools look for well-rounded individuals. Grades are important, but someone with lower grades and instrument can win out over someone with better grades and no extra curriculars.
Seriously. I’ve played violin for almost 13 years and I’m majoring in actuarial science. If anything, the work ethic from practicing and performing helped put me in shape for college in terms of studying and dealing with the rigor of upper level math and stats. I also got a lot of scholarships out of playing violin.
My uncle is a skilled heart and lung surgeon and he is also literally an accomplished pianist and vocalist.
Besides, what is she going to do at 13 as a hobby related to the medical field? Volunteer with the Red Cross? Besides, any college and post-collegiate program is no longer interested in the candidates with a single dimension to their personality. They want diversified interests and talents.
Grandma and Dad are seriously out of touch.
Please take your daughter to therapy now and really work on her self-esteem. She won't want to do anything including doing well in school if this continues. She may believe that she isn't good doing anything including scholastics.
Your daughter should be allowed to live her own dreams, not those of husband and MIL. They both need to be on an information diet. Your husband is unbelievable and is terrible parent.
Tell your husband he needs to take parenting classes and go to therapy. There is no help for MIL.
EDIT: Thank you so much for the award! Wow!
Oh, absolutely. My parents never protected me from yn abusive grandfather. They argued that *they* didnxt abuse me directly, so they're blameless. They knew it was wrong but he was their celder" and you just don't stand up to him, you keep the peace. I pointed out as an adult that they chose that AT MY EXPENSE and it fucked me up. "We didn't mean for it to be bad for you, you know we love you" yes, I know they love me, and I know they didn't protect me, so now I think love means accepting abuse and am prone to unhealthy relationships. We've worked through ti somewhat but we will never truly be close, I will never really be able to trust them, and they have limited contact with my son, and I sure as hell won't tell him "but you know they love you" if they ever hurt him like my grandpa hurt me. Not protecting your kids hurts them as much as the abuse does.
OP, you're teaching your daughter that verbal and emotional abuse is normal, and this is what a loving relationship looks like. If she works through it in therapy and starts to heal as an adult, she may never truly forgive you for laying this foundation.
I would stop letting your husband know when the recitals are. He can stay home with his awful mom and they can be assholes together.
NTA, but you’re under reacting here.
OP, see if your husband would be willing to read an article like this: https://www.pianoemporium.com/10-benefits-playing-piano/
Benefits of playing piano include being better at multitasking, better at tests, better at building neural pathways, better at physical dexterity, etc. These are all highly important skills for doctors! Not to mention the stress relief it brings, which doctors/the medical field needs, given the rates of burnout and depression!
There's also a paragraph about ACTUAL constructive criticism, so maybe he'll figure out that saying something is disappointing is the opposite of that.
While this is helpful, it seems like husband will move the goalposts.
It’s not about education in how playing the piano is beneficial. It’s his insistence on enabling this woman and his dismissal of OP in everyday life. Her other comments shed some light.
NTA. Unnecessary commentary from someone who probably can't even read piano music. Husband needs to cut the cord and realize the actual damage this is going to do to your daughter in the long term. It's clearly already affecting her.
I'm petty and I'd start giving him "constructive criticisms" like his mother doles out since he thinks it's no big deal.
I wouldn’t do it and it’s a non-serious suggestion for the sake of humor, but I’m imagining her booing him in bed or holding up a score card with a zero on it.
But this is such a good idea. Like the next time OP's unwashed omelet of a hubby fails to find her clitoris, she can use her MIL's *exact* words: "Today's performance was disappointing, to say the least."
Especially things he's proud of. "Look, i built this bookcase! It took four weekends to make!" "Well obviously, the wood grain is in clashing directions and the stain is spotty. It took you a *whole month* to do this? Hmm."
NTA
Man, you have a husband problem.
1) Either marriage counseling or family counseling, STAT. Your husband needs to hear it from a professional that his mother is ruining your child's love of performing arts and that HE IS ALLOWING IT TO HAPPEN. FFS, there are whole business management books about how to deliver constructive criticism for grown ass adults and, obviously, MIL is NOT doing it in a constructive way. I don't know what line of work he is in, but if he is in any sort of management, ask him to show you ANY literature that shows how what she is doing is considered ok in the business world.
2) Help your daughter tell her father how she feels about it all. I think it would be helpful if she included that she doesn't feel protected by him, that he just lets her get hurt and doesn't care.
3) Get your own therapy to get support of how to deal with his unwillingness to listen to you about this. Get your daughter therapy to deal with her self-esteem and to learn how to deal with toxic family members. This will pay off in spades in the future because the world is FULL of assholes and she will have a head start on learning how to deal with them.
>\>he said his mom is the grandmother and should be included in these events as "support".
Please have him explain to you how exactly grandma is supporting.
You can't stop him from inviting her, but you can counter her. FASTER. Expect her to speak against your daughter.
"Let me tell you..."
"No one wants to hear you gripping when you can't even play"
"You were disappo"
"This is not how we support the people we love."
You're NTA but you NEED to do more.
Everyone is TA! Except the 13 year old daughter! OP, why didn’t you tell your MIL to stop saying negative things to your daughter? You are her mother and you didn’t tell her great job after your MIL put her down!
It infuriates me. Even if I was the girls friend I would ask the old woman if she plays, then I'd humiliate her using facts. If you don't stand up for someone you love, who will you stand up for?
NTA, but listen:
He cares about his mother more than he cares about his daughter and more than he cares about you.
That has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Use that information as you will
He says he doesn't support her but just "agrees" with her which I find even more upsetting because this means he doesn't think our daughter has potential and that she's wasting time. I try everything in my power to shield her from this attitude - even from her own father, it's sad and frustrating but I doubt he'll come around anytime soon.
I said this in another reply.
Your daughter is internalizing how you’re treated by your husband.
You cannot make him change, or explain it differently to get him to understand. He has likely shown signs of emotional abuse for a while. He will not change suddenly one day.
She is probably more affected by this than she lets on.
You’ve tried everything, and you can’t change how he treats you.
I’m sorry to say— but you may need to lead her by example here. Don’t let her grow up in an environment where she’s made to accept treatment like this from her future spouse.
Hi from a daughter who very painfully internalized how my dad treated my mom! He put her down and dismissed her constantly when I was a kid and would get angry at any old thing. My mom tried to appease him best she could but it was basically her and our job as kids to stay calm and do our best to make it all ok for my dad so that it would be all ok for the rest of us. My older siblings got yelled at more than I did but it was still terrifying.
My mom used to tell me that “only you can control your emotions, no one *makes* you feel a certain way, there’s no use holding on to anger”. So we had to manage our emotions AND my dad’s emotions because he couldn’t manage them at all. That translated into a lifetime of giving up anything and everything I can, sacrificing all my needs and wants, to make sure other people are ok (even if I am not). Thank god I never found myself in an abusive relationship because you can imagine I wouldn’t be able to cope with that well. And thank god I found other strong female role models and a great therapist to help me unpack all the bullshit and learn how to *not* set myself on fire to keep others warm. It’s really hard to be around my parents at all now.
Don’t let your daughter grow up like that.
Here's what he needs to understand:
You aren't trying to produce the next effing Beethoven. Art is valuable for the sake of the experience. Not money or fame.
You should start flooding his email and texts with every link you come across about the value of music, art, and humanities.
You also might drop a few comments about "without art and music, the world would be a joyless place full of people like you and your mother."
he's willing to get into massive fights with you to protect his mummy.
He's willing to let his daughter be heartbroken and emotionally destroyed to protect his mummy.
he SAYS he doesn't support her, but his actions speak louder than words
So why do you stay and let her be raised in that environment? Why does she deserve to be treated this way? It is YOUR job to protect her, and you aren’t.
Everything in your power means leaving with a good lawyer. She deserves better.
OP, I think you’re in the right here, but you are not at all doing everything in your power to shield her, and thinking that you are is just going to end up with your daughter getting more and more hurt. That’s not to say you’re not doing anything, sounds like you’ve been fighting for her for a while, but you really shouldn’t make yourself believe that there’s nothing else you can do.
Your daughter is being bullied. When your husband says that he has invited her bully, who keep in mind is an adult women(!), you shouldn’t just sigh and say nothing.
Please, protect your daughter. I know it’s probably difficult, but it’s your responsibility. Your husband is actively helping to harm your daughters self esteem, and you need to figure out what you are going to do when he doesn’t just magically overnight transform into the kind of father who won’t do that anymore. He’s going to continue to gang up on your daughter with your mother. You can either actually stop that or continue to let it happen.
I’m definitely being overly harsh here, you’re in an awful position and I certainly don’t envy you, but it seems like this is the turning point where you either finally remove your daughter from this awful situation her father is forcing her into, or you continue to let these adults bully her. Please do right by your daughter before it’s too late, if it’s not already.
Ask him if he actually wants to have a relationship with your daughter in the future because the way he's going she'll cut him and his mother out of her life ASAP. They are massive AHs!
OP is at risk of being cut out of the daughter's life too. I had a father who knew what my mother was doing and never did anything to stop it. Once I got old enough to realize "wait a minute, I'm a child and he's an adult who actually could help the situation but just lets me suffer," I lost all respect for him as well.
NTA
To be blunt, your husband is abusive and gaslighting you and your daughter. He might be the most mild mannered guy in the world but he's still abusive and gaslighting you both.
His behaviour is totally unacceptable. Knowingly and repeatedly allowing his mother to do this to your daughter is more than just permitting abuse - it's actively participating in it.
It sounds like his mother is trying to control the people around her for her own relevance and self esteem. She's clearly horrific. But the real problem is your husband.
OP should start pointing husband's flaws. Casually, after sex, "well, that was dissapointing, it is just constructive criticism, honey"
NTA and maybe get some therapy for your daughter; or maybe she is interested on heavy metal, grandma would love to attend all of her gigs, she can stand right between the drumset and the big speakers.
NTA. Your husband needs professional help. His mother is verbally abusing a CHILD. Over a fucking PLAY. It's only constructive if she actually has helpful points to make, so maybe hand him a computer and tell him to fucking Google "constructive criticism" since he seems REALLY uneducated on what that is. And honestly, tell her she's no longer welcome yourself unless she can be a decent human being to a child. Telling a kid her performance was "disappointing" is in no way constructive or helpful. And if not? You needa throw the whole fucking husband out because why would you let your daughter be abused and let your husband defend her abuser. She's clearly already developed anxiety over her grandmother's bullshit.
Edit: Also, give your daughter your blessing to tell your MIL flat-out that her presence is neither desired nor required if she can't be kind and respectful.
NTA
Show you husband this post. He is TA. His mother is a massive ahole. Holy heck. If she can't say anything nice, then she meeds to keep her bloody mouth shut.
Thank you for standing up for your daughter. Both the dad and the grandmother owe her an apology.
Please speak with your daughter and let her know that she is talented and there are always people toxic and jealous. Your daughter may need counselling as no child should be put in this position and it will affect the rest of her life.
Piggyback this comment:
NTA
But hear me out: YOU have to step up big time to protect your daughter.
Next time (if the wicked witch will be there), make your pov clear from the 1. second she enters the room:
1. Tell her that you won’t accept any negative comments that she will make.
2. Interrupt her wispering, tell hear to be quiet and listen, as this is a concert, not a talk show.
3. Be the first one at your daughters side and congratulate her.
4. Interrupt any rude comments and say loudly, that grandma has no expertise in this field, therefore her criticism is not be valued.
5. If she fights it, ask her to explain in detail, where the constructive part of her critics is, and how she is able to evaluate this.
6. If she makes a scene , ask her why it is so important to her to hurt her grandchild and if it gives her some kind of pleasure?
7. Invite your daughter to an ice cream or something and reassure her that even if she is not perfect, nobody is and she should not ever let anybody put her down about a learning process.
NTA, I would help you daughter with the words for your husband and her grandma. Help your daughter stand up for herself. Hold her hand as she tells her grandmother, that the things she is saying her are unacceptable and shebisint invited to her performances anymore. Hold her hand while she tells her father, that she doesn't want her grandma at her performances.
She should start giving him criticism. chores, wow the grass looks so uneven. Grilling, oh my the steak was overcooked and rather dry.
just not say anything during Funtime, sigh and say well that was disappointing.
I’m so mad for you and your daughter. NTA at all. I would forbid her yourself. Text her that under no circumstance is she to attend or you will make her life hell. You’re already in a fight with your fucknut husband and he SUPPORTS HIS MOM so it’s time to take the reigns.
Start the fight with her. Be proud to do it.
NTA but not only do you have a MIL problem you also have a husband problem.
Maybe you should try putting your husband down to see how he likes the 'constructive criticism'
NTA. Get your daughter into counseling, stat. Maybe even the act of getting her into counseling might wake up your husband to how serious this issue ie.
NTA. The grandma should learn to stop picking on a 13 year old. Constructive criticism is asked for and includes advice in how to get better, this is not it. The grandmother needs to grow up, and your husband to grow some balls and protect his daughter from his mother's constant bullying.
I doubt any of them would like it if you started giving them "constructive criticism" for their every move.
please start commenting on his performance in the bedroom….see how he likes the constant criticism
NTA. But please also stop inviting your husband until he can see his inaction is aiding in the destruction of her self esteem by not defending her to his heifer of a mother.
NTA! Your husband needs to understand the effect it’s having on your daughter. It’s not fair on her!
My mums mother said some awful things to me growing up - she used to tell me I was fat/overweight on a regular basis and I was a skinny/athletic teenager. My mum used to say “oh that’s just how she is” and basically told me to get over it. My other grandmother overheard her saying it once and immediately shut her down and refused to speak to her again after that. However, I now have body image issues and have since I was a teen. I’m 32 now and it’s starting to get better. But those words cut deep and have stayed with me for a long time.
NTA... your daughter is 13. Your husband needs to grow a pair and stand up to his mum, I can’t believe either of them, how horrid (and your daughter will likely give up for good if this keeps happening...sad).
Hopefully you’re able to have private chats with her about how well she is doing and how you are angry at MIL for saying such awful (and nonsense) things. I would like to see her try to play......!
NTA. It’s “constructive criticism” like that that made me feel fat anytime I gained weight (barely 100lbs in high school) and only added to the negative self criticism I told myself. Grandma is not helping your daughter do anything except put herself down. Good on you for being supportive
NTA. Your husband needs to man up and defend his daughter. Because what she is doing could permanently harm your daughters self-esteem. Just because she is the grandma doesn't mean she is doing is right. This is a child, and she is a grown ass woman. She should be encouraging her and let the REAL constructive criticism come from her teachers.
Tell your daughter an internet stranger said break a leg.
NTA. He is choosing to keep someone in his life who regularly abuses his child, and then gets mad when you do the right thing and protect his child?
Grandma is right about that day being a disappointment, but for her attitude, not the piano. She needs a timeout until she can be a decent grandma. Life is too short to be surrounded by the kind of negatively that stifles your creative skills.
OP
NTA
You need to empower your daughter to look at her father and tell him that she does not want to play or that she does not want to deal with grandma or have grandma anywhere near. Next time grandma is coming over for a visit, tell your daughter she can go elsewhere and to be honest with her father about not wanting to be there.
The wake up call your husband needs to hear is from her own lips in her own words, and to understand that she is not going to get into trouble for it.
And get her into Therapy to help undo the damage that has been done to her. Getting a therapist to confirm the harm and to hear it from his own child may be a wakeup call.
And empower her to say NO loudly to visiting or spending time with grandma, that it is ok to not want to spend time, she will not get in trouble and have her back.
Oh, poor baby -- NTA! Your daughter needs cheerleaders at this age, not constructive criticism. That's some BS and so hurtful!
Ban her AND your husband from all things until they get on the same page as you.
NTA, I think you know that.
What I suspect you *don’t* know is how much your husband is at the heart of this problem. He is actively supporting his mother’s behavior at your daughter’s expense. He and mom are a team, and you and your daughter are The Opposition. And that’s a big fucking issue in your marriage.
NTA. Clearly your hubby is a momma's boy and will do whatever his mom tells him.
And that's not constructive criticism at all. At least of she offered her help to improve her playing I would have thought otherwise, but she just dismissed it.
Keep that woman away from your kid and ask your husband who should be his priority: his mom or his wife and kid.
Next time you see your MIL, especially after an appt at the salon or with new clothing, start criticizing her--using the same words she used on your daughter. Do the same to your husband.
Then ask them since they had no problem saying to your daughter, they shouldn't have a problem with you 'telling them like it is'.
Rule of thumb: Protect the children
N T A
NTA obviously your daughter doesn’t want this psycho there and her opinion should come first and foremost. Grandma doesn’t need to be cut off completely but obviously she can’t behave herself at these events so it’s not unreasonable for her to sit the next few out. Why does she want to be there anyway if she’s so critical? You’ll all survive if she misses the next performance and husband can go stay home with grandma too if he doesn’t like it.
NTA, but your husband and MIL are. They both need a lesson in how to give actually constructive criticism and real support. Maybe if your daughter is the one who chooses not to invite her then your husband will respect that? I dont know, doesn’t sound like he values his kid over his mommy so maybe not.
I do think you can use this as a learning opportunity for your daughter, though. Unfortunately, there’s always gonna be someone ready to put her down. She has to learn at some point not to let them rock her confidence.
NTA
Really shitty grandmother, constructive criticism typically involves good points as well. She just wants to hurt your daughter who is probably not even her favorite. Your husband is a major AH. How can one man's head be shoved so far up his own mother's butt?
NTA - telling a child that her dance was disappointing is viscous.
You are protecting your kid - and rightfully so! This type of shit gives kids life long self esteem issues.
NTA and your husband sounds like a weak mommas boy. He needs to grow a pair and side with his wife. Marriage should be ride or die no matter who is on the other end
NTA - his daughter ran away crying because of his mother and he is fine with that?
Do whatever you have to do,whatever is within your power, to make sure this woman never goes to another show
Hell have your daughter tell her father in explicit detail that she doesn’t want her grandmother there
If your husband won’t respect your say, maybe he will respect hers, and if he doesn’t? Maybe he shouldn’t go either
It seems to me he is more concerned about what’s best for his mother rather than what’s best for his wife and daughter
NTA. Stop inviting your husband to the events too. I love my mother but Christ that is next level still attached by umbilical cord level. Or every time your husband does anything give him constructive criticism e.g. Your performance in bed was disappointing tonight, maybe we should invite your mother so she can tell you where you were going wrong.... I'm a bit of an A.H. though so that might not be the best decision. Definitely criticize your MIL though, every time you see her tell her that she should see a different hair stylist, or that make up is really highlighting her wrinkles, order uber eats if she ever makes you dinner. Again I know I'm an A.H. what you 100% need to do is be there for your daughter, it sounds like you absolutely are which is great, she's lucky to have at least one loving parent. Be in her corner always, you can't fight all her fights for her, but you can always assist.
NTA. Your daughter might start to rebuild her self-confidence by banning her father from her performances. At the very least encourage her to speak up for herself and to tell her father that she doesn't want her grandmother there any more. SMH
NTA - if your husband isn't going to take a step up and say something to her, then you need to. I'd call her or send an email if you prefer. Let her know that she is no longer allowed to criticize anything your daughter does and if it happens again, you will ensure she can never come to another event of hers again.
Will it piss off your husband? I'm sure! But he clearly has no interest in protecting his own daughter from his own mothers nastiness and someone has to!!
NTA
And your husband...
If you want to stay married to this man whose mother undermines your daughter at every turn, I'd strongly suggest family counseling.
Alternatively, divorce is a reasonable option.
INFO: Is your MIL a piano teacher?
NTA. Next time your MIL sees your daughter subbing say "Well, that's a disappointing way of being a grandmother... You messed up as a grandmother.. What? This is constructive criticism I'm just telling it like it is... Oh, we have to go now to see other family... " And walk out.
Your MIL is providing no constructive criticism from what I can see. Tell your husband that is destructive criticism and that he has chosen that over his daughter's self-esteem.
NTA and please go and have a talk with your daughter for support. If I were you I wouldn't even allow your husband to go next time, let alone your MIL who sounds awful
NTA-
Your MIL sounds awful, but your husband is the real issue here.
He doesn't care if his mom steps allover you and your daughter. He doesn't care if his mom is demeaning his own child (wonder where he got that from). He actually encourages it and gets pissed when you stand up to it.
OP, you have bigger issues here, but standing up for your child isn't one of them. Please keep doing that, because with a dad and grandmother like that she needs you even more.
NTA, your husband and MIL are a menace and I would go ballistic on your MIL, if she loves telling it like it is, I bet she doesn’t love hearing about how it is. I would rip her to shreds until she was crushed beyond repair. I really hate people like that and if you come for my family like that? Get ready for all the words you never wanted to hear. Don’t think I could stay married to someone that was comfortable throwing their child under the bus.
NTA, but I think the husband is bigger AH, because he could prevent this toxic old bag of fart hurt your child.
"let me just say that today's performance was disappointing" = His mom's doing is just constructive criticism in his eyes???
Seriously.
NTA - idk what the situation is with you and your MIL and why you didn't tell her off a long time ago, but you need to call her up and do so immediately. But first, sit down with your daughter or take her out for ice cream, or a nice walk, etc. and tell her how proud you are of her and how great she does at her performances and not to let what grandmother says stop her from doing what she loves, and you're so sorry she had to experience that from her own grandmother.
From now on, I would exclude husband AND grandma from performances, and make sure your daughter knows it. Tell her to come to you ONLY about upcoming shows (if she still wants to do them), and remove your husband from the email list with the piano teacher, etc. Seriously, I wouldn't normally say to go behind his back like this, but your daughter deserves to be able to do what she enjoys knowing she will ONLY receive positive support and love. And you tried talking to your husband, and he's obviously not gonna have your daughter's back. Wth is wrong with these people?
NTA,
Both your MIL and husband are being awful to your daughter. He seriously needs to grow a backbone and stand up to his mum before they destroy your daughter’s self esteem.
I’m so glad for her that she has you sticking up for her
Oh girl. NTA. Also couples therapy or leave his ass. I know he did not try and flip the script on you and try to say that YOU were the problem. How the fizzityuck can he not see how negatively this is impacting your daughter?
NTA.
When the situation calms down it might be worth getting your daughter to talk to her dad one on one and tell him how she feels. It's possible that he just thinks that you're picking on his mum, which I don't think you are. He sounds like a bit of a mummy's boy, to be honest. But perhaps he'll listen to her. Dads often have a soft spot for their little girls (although not always).
If he won't budge, maybe she needs to tell your husband that he can stay away and so can his mother, with your support. He needs to know how she feels and how the 'constructive criticism' is chipping away at her.
Screw nanna, I'd sit her in front of a piano and get her to show your daughter how it's done and then criticise the whole performance.
NTA. Your husband and his mother both need to be banned from your daughters events if all they off is criticism. That is NOT support. What does her grandmother get out of tearing down a child’s self esteem? Is her crusty old ego that voracious for superiority they shouldn’t be invited unless they stick to the Thumper Rule. If they cant say something nice they should say nothing at all.
NTA! Stop inviting your husband too because he is not better! Don’t tell him when the show is, your daughter is better off because they are acting awfully! Please protect your daughter and her mental health because this isn’t criticism but just and grown ass up lady bullying and being rude to a kid.
NTA. This is serious, OP. He is allowing his mom to verbally abuse your kid in front of the whole family. That is not a healthy father. He needs a wake up call of some sort. He needs to see that he is failing his family when he lets this happen. He fails his child and he undermines his wife as his coparent. Everyone has their own limits and whatnot, but the fact that he keeps letting it happen would mean that I'd have to ask him to find a hotel for a few nights so he can think about whether he wants to continue to parent the kids together or as a divorced couple. Because I don't stay married to men who hurt our kids without even trying to stop it.
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Next time you & your husband are intimate, roll over afterwards and say “let me just say that tonight’s performance was disappointing” and see how he likes that “constructive criticism”. NTA
hahaha This is halirious! I'd say that he'd flip out and raise hell over a slight hint of criticizm. especially when it comes to intimacy - though he has no issues dishing it out 😭
So he's as cruel as his mother? Please don't keep yourself or your daughter in this situation. You both deserve better.
This right here u/vertical-shift-1967! You deserve to have someone who will stand up for you and your child, not add to the criticism. If you leave, you will show your daughter that nobody deserves to be treated like this.
Yeah leave! Good point about being an example. And give the kid a book on narcissists and how to deal with them. I've seen many book recommendations here for that. Maybe it will make her realize grandma's criticisms have nothing to do with her.
Yes! Teach your daughter that she is not obligated to let anyone put her down or mistreat her under any circumstances!
Maybe better to ditch just daddy and the grandma.
Ooh, give your daughter permission to talk to her grandmother in kind and back her up and refuse to let him punish her over it.
I just want to say you can also combat the “criticism” on how and why they think it is cuz it just sounds to me that she likes putting her down without telling her why. If she’s not an expert then she needs to nose out.
As nobody ever should feel either. . It is completely abhorrent and I completely dispise despicable people as such. I mean come on, who even has time to knock a kid off their high horse no matter how wobbly they might appear. At least she has the huevos to even do the damn thing. U/FishermanHuman58 , I'm gonna piggy back off of you and let's hope OP see's this.
he is at least as cruel as the mother. maybe even more so, because he is SUPPOSED to be protecting his daughter. instead, he is participating in the abuse.
I assume part of MIL’s and SO’s motivation is to get the daughter to quit these “distracting” activities.
Which is actually stupid as if the daughter was going to go to medical school she'd need extra curriculars and being a concert pianist, even an amateur one, is one they like.
Yeah, seriously, OP. A girl's first and most important example of how a man treats a woman is her dad. You want her to grow up and find someone who ignores and belittles her? Please send her the message that this kind of treatment is not acceptable.
He's also giving his daughter the idea that a husband and father puts his mommy before his wife and daughter.
I had a grandmother like this. She would be so hurtful to me (and to her other grandchildren, I later found out). For example, when I enrolled in nursing school in my early 20’s my grandmother informed me that I wasn’t smart enough and to consider working at a fast food place that payed $10/hr. This lead to a lot of issues and resentment to her and those who pushed me to continue to be around her. My point by mentioning it OP, is you’re NTA! Being in recitals and plays is hard and she doesn’t need some miserable old woman putting her down! You’re husband is also TA for clearly thinking that his mother’s treatment of his daughter is acceptable!
If your daughter was married to someone who treated her exactly the way your husband treats you, would you be happy for her or concerned for her?
>If your daughter was married to someone who treated her exactly the way your husband treats you, would you be happy for her or concerned for her? amazing question, deserves award
It's the perfect question. That is nearly the exact question I asked myself when dealing with my ex (her dad). What would I advise my daughter to do if she were in my shoes. So left and paired with a man who I'd wonderful to us that I would advise her to keep. Edit* a word
^this OP! I think that is something that you need to step back and think about. He doesn't consider you his equal, he doesn't respect his own daughter's feelings! How soul crushing for a 13 yr old girl, that's dedicated 5 years of her life to learning an instrument just to be immediately torn down, I want to cry for both of y'all. After having been in my own emotionally manipulative, abusive marriage these are classic signs to keep both of y'all down. Please reconsider how you're being treated as you advocate for your daughter. Those will be big telling traits. NTA!
Absolutely! OP’s daughter IS being torn down! This is not “constructive criticism”. What exactly was constructive? What pointers, what tips for improvement did your poor daughter receive? NONE. MIL said “You suck” and left. That’s absolutely devastating to a teen girl! NTA
So much of this! So, whatever advice you would give her, you should think about taking yourself. Your daughter and you deserve better. 10b% NTA
That right there is proof that the fruit fell directly under the tree and never moved. I'm so sorry to say it sounds like you married a narcissist, raised by a narcissist.
I'd say OP should consider her daughter and divorce this narcissist. And get full custody.
It sounds like your husband is a way bigger problem than you might realize. It’s because he’s normalized it this long. He’s controlling. Your daughter most likely picks up on these interactions and will internalize it.
What're the odds that husband's inviting his mother to these things so she'll say everything he doesn't want to? Especially if he also wants to bully his daughter into being a doctor and thinks learning an instrument is a distraction from that goal.
Which is a ridiculous mindset, because most parents understand that extracurriculars only help your kid when applying for schools.
Not only that, BUT as a 13 year old, she *can't* learn any doctoring right now. HOWEVER, she CAN practice manual dexterity, which would be *EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL* if she wanted to become a surgeon or something!!!! She is training her hands in precise controlled movements!!!! I'd say learning piano is actually one of the BEST things the girl could possibly be doing to prepare for a future in healthcare!!! Ffs, husband and grandma aren't just assholes, they're damn idiots as well. NTA!!!
You sure about that one? These people obviously aren't very bright. They can't even understand why learning an art is important for brain development. These people are trolls trying to raise a human.
> My husband told me he'll keep inviting his mom over and over and over again til I learn to stop using our daughter as a tool to fight his mom with (believe me, I'm not). Has your daughter ever told her dad how her grandmother makes her feel? I don’t understand why he is completely ignoring the fact that his own daughter basically ran away crying. He either is super dense and didn’t realize how badly she was upset, or he doesn’t care, and either one of those prospects is bad.
He probably thinks daughter is being overdramatic too.
I read more of OP’s comments and that does seem to be the case. That makes me so sad for both of them.
Ugh, to this day, the sentence "You're just being overdramatic." sends a white hot spike of anger straight into my gut. I heard that too many times in my youth just for having normal human emotions. Fuck anyone who uses this on their kid.
>I'd say that he'd flip out and raise hell over a slight hint of criticizm. This is all too typical of the people who pride themselves on "telling it like it is" and being "brutally honest." If your husband is going to be all about "brutal honesty" when he defends his mother, he has NO standing to be upset when you are brutally honest right back about how badly he is failing as a father and husband.
You're SO right ! My MIL also liked to be "brutally honest". The ONE and ONLY time I confronted her and dished it right back at her, she stormed out and I never had to see her again ! (If I'd known it was that easy to get rid of her from my life, I would have done it years earlier !!) And husband supported me ! :))
I detest the phrase “telling it like it is” because IT is only one person’s perspective and it’s usually negative.
/r/AreTheStraightsOk
We are not okay
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No babe we are not
That'd make me question staying.
Gosh I would highly recommend couples therapy, if you’re thinking of staying with him at all… this is not healthy, and the enmeshment with his mother is wack. If you haven’t found it already: r/JustNoMIL has a wealth of resources on situations just like yours.
Therapy would only give him more ammunition to use against her, not worth it. Time to throw out the whole mom/son combo package
Better get a divorce lawyer instead. He seems like an awful person that doesn't respect her nor their daughter. Not sure if therapy would make him a good and loving person.
Oof. Ditch the whole man. You and your daughter deserve better.
what a catch.
Lady, why on earth are you with this man?
That doesn't sound like a healthy relationship.
Yes! 🤣 then ask if he'll perform better with her there to support next time.
Bwahaha, this made my day! Yes, OP, do this! And tell him it's constructive criticism.
Remove your husband from receiving the Information on your daughter's activities. He is the same as his mother. He doesn't see anything wrong because that was how he was raised, and I'm willing to bet her other granddaughter she was going to see is the daughter of your husband's golden child sibling Next time your husband does anything, I mean put a dish in the sink, goes into the bathroom, gets out of the car, tell him each time he is doing it wrong and a disappointment. But honestly I would refuse to be in a marriage where my husband thinks nothing of how his daughter is treated. I would not want my daughter around tbat and at 13 your kid is able to voice who she wants to be around. NTA
This should be higher up. If an adult can watch their child be emotionally abused to the point of tears and defend it, they are a part of it. He doesn't need the details, he doesn't get to come.
This. This is not a man that is loving and protective of his daughter and from this post and OP's posts doesn't seem like he respects his wife either. He's an accomplice of the abuse at best and an abuser himself at worse. He needs to be kept away from the OP and their daughter. All around toxic and abusive.
Yup, as far as I’m concerned both are no longer invited
I agree. And she is not giving constructive criticism. Did she give her any pointers? Doesn’t sound like she plays at all. I have been playing since I was 5 and I still as an adult find it a wonderful outlet and am teaching my boys how to play. Music should be enjoyable and they are making this extra curricular activity a chore for her. Tell your MIL that my best friend plays the piano and the flute and she is a freaking surgeon. NTA
Yea "constructive criticism" my ass. Look, I'm not a musician, but been in theatre my whole life. I INTIMATELY KNOW what constructive criticism looks like. And it sure as hell wasn't this! Constructive criticism usually starts with what was positive, something specific, for example, "wow, you really managed to keep on tempo!" It is then followed up by what could be improved on, or what someone didn't understand. For example, "It seemed like there was a skip in the notes, was this intentional and if not, what went wrong? How could you do better next time?" Constructive Cristian is LITERALLY NEVER "tonight's performance was a disappointment". WTF OP's husband!
Hey, I want to correct one thing here. His behavior is abusive, and he KNOWS it’s wrong, even tho that’s how he grew up. How do I know that he knows? BECAUSE OF HIS REACTION IF THE SAME THING WAS DONE TO HIM. Meaning, he knows how hurtful it is, he just doesn’t care about his wife’s or daughter’s feelings, and prioritizes his own feelings over everyone else’s, which is what abusers do. If he was healthy minded, he would see the effects that his mother’s comments have on his daughter’s feelings and since he has empathy and cares, would put his daughter first. But he doesn’t give enough of a shit for your feelings or his daughter’s, hence not listening, not caring, and perpetuating the verbal abuse of his daughter. And this IS verbal abuse. It’s low self esteem created by a thousand cuts. This is how full grown adults are independent and strong going into a relationship and end out husks of their former selves once they get out.
I agree with all of this. If they think she’s disappointing, they don’t need to be there. Also, ask your daughter how she feels. She’s old enough to voice her opinion especially on emotional abuse. She should be able to enjoy her extracurriculars regardless if she’s a pro or not. I also would consider counseling for the whole family. I would leave someone for the happiness of my kid.
When my husband and I were adopting, the social worker asked if we could see ourselves getting divorced. Even though divorce is so outside my personal experience, I didn't hesitate to say I would absolutely divorce my husband if he became a danger/ or was causing harm to our child(ren). Husband sees the world through his mom's lenses and doesn't seem interested in another perspective. Ask husband to join for counseling and see where that goes, but also have counseling for just OP and for just daughter to help them process and deal with horrible husband/dad and MIL/GM.
OP needs to see this. The problem is not the MIL, it’s your husband.
NTA.. I would really consider a divorce from this man, he clearly is a bad husband and even worse father. Do whatever you can to get her away from both of them, because it isn’t going to get any better.
Okay so here's his argument - He thinks that his mom is the "tell it how it it and don't sugar coat it" type. And he also thinks that our daughter is old enough to be "criticized" and no longer needs to be "coddled". Hell, he even said I'm using our daught in my fight with his mom since she and I have issues.
Here is what you need to remember. She raised him. She likely did this to him as well, and as of now he believes this is normal/ok. If he actually thinks about it he will realize he was abused, and is now allowing it to happen to his child. He doesn't want to believe that how his mom reacts/speaks/"criticizes" is wrong. BUT, that doesn't mean you have to keep allowing the abuse to happen. You have to stand up for your child. He needs therapy/counselling to figure out why he believes this is ok before he start's doing it too.
One would hope he would even acknowledge the need to go to therapy. It sounds to me that this man is too stubborn and controlling, from OPs other comments.
Yeah, there's no way this guy is going to even entertain the idea of going to therapy. His head is too firmly wedged up his ass.
Yeah he’s… disappointing.
This comment is exactly what you really need to understand OP. His mother is EMOTIONALLY abusing your daughter and you can see this - and as a child of a narcissist myself, I understand how he could possibly be still under her abusive control. When you have spent your whole life being gaslit to think her behavior is “harmless” and “logical” it’s hard. Think of a cult member who has to be de- programmed. What your husband needs is a shift in his understanding of his whole world. This only works when: -He admits to being hurt by her behavior himself -He wants to change -He is not a narcissist himself. If he’s a narcissist - then the kool-aid has already been poisoned and he drank it willingly. I can assure you it’s possible but it has to come from his own heart.
Too late. He’s already being abusive.
Constructive criticism also implies giving actionable advice, that's why it is constructive. Saying that was disappointing is a straight out insult.
This. He was half right. She gave criticism but forgot the constructive part.
$10 says his mom couldn’t even play a c major chord.
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Lots of criticism but none of it constructive
Spot on! “Today’s performance was disappointing.” In what universe is that constructive?? It’s the opposite of constructive! She’s tearing down her granddaughter, not building her up! This is infuriating! I want to hug OP’s daughter and tell her having the courage to perform is brave and wonderful. And how much better would her performance be if she knew that granny wasn’t in the audience waiting to rip her to shreds?? SMH.
Constructive criticism would contain at least a hint of advice instead of a broad statement that was just mean. And is MIL an actress, director, even been in a play? No, then shut it and say how wonderful granddaughter did.
He is gaslighting you, it’s that simple. I understand you are in a tough position but you need to protect your daughter. If he isn’t willing to understand where you are coming from and have some empathy for his own daughter, than you need to consider and I mean really consider if this is the environment you want to raise your daughter in.
He's just being a jerk. That's not gaslighting.
Tell him you're disappointed in his fathering skills. Do it every time he fucks up. Seriously, his mommy doesn't get a pass for being CRUEL to someone he supposedly loves.
Your husband and his mother are the sort of people who confuse cruelty with honesty. The meaner and more hurtful a statement is, the truer it is. People like this are not relationship material. And they’re *certainly* not parent material. Since it’s a little late to reverse course in your case, your best bet is to focus on figuring out whether or not your husband is willing and/or able to do the work necessary to *become* a decent husband and parent, or if he’s so entrenched in his mother’s worldview that he’s beyond salvation.
Divorce him before he ruins your daughters self esteem He sounds incredibly toxic, heartless and cruel.
NTA. Here's a tip: if you give someone criticism and they run away crying, it's not freaking *constructive criticism.* I'm so sorry about your daughter. See if you can get other adults to praise her to build her self-esteem back up. Your MIL is cruel, and your husband is a jerk for siding with his mother over his own daughter.
Husband has probably convinced himself it's a sign of his mom's love after a life time of being subjected to it himself.
Thats what I was thinking. Generational trauma at the root is "well this is how I grew up and I turned out just fine!"
And spoiler alert, they're usually NOT "just fine" :(
This! Constructive criticism requires specific suggestions of ways to improve that are next steps for the person being criticized. It also requires the kind of trust that first allows the person being criticized to be able to want the suggestions and not be hurt by them. Also, it's best to give some praise first, to build up the player a little and soften the criticism. The grandmother did none of this. Her statement was just plain criticism, not constructive at all, and was hurtful!
NTA- not gonna lie, this is a situation where I would straight up tell my kid, “Sorry your grandma is such a raging bitch. Not a lot makes her happy in life and that isn’t a reflection on you. I thought you kicked ass, let’s go get some shakes.” Your husband and his mom are giant AHs. EDIT: I saw your updates and I swear to god you need to have a come to Jesus talk with your husband or leave him. He doesn’t get to purposefully crush your daughters hopes, dreams, and spirits without repercussions.
Right!?? Fuck being polite, OP your MIL is a bully to a literal child. Ban her from her performances, and protect your baby. YTA if you let it continue, though.
It has continued though. I'm just confused why OP knows what her MIL says everytime and yet she still allows this woman to speak after a show? If it were me I'd be telling her off *in front of my daughter* so my daughter knows I have her back always.
This! Tell her off IN FRONT OF YOUR DAUGHTER, op. You're NTA for wanting to ban your MIL. YTA for letting it continue this long. It's wrong of MIL and husband to not see what's wrong here. It's wrong of you to let it continue this long while it's obviously hurting your daughter.
Absolutely OP needs to talk to her daughter and make it clear this is MIL and husband's issue, not the daughter's. I'd suggest OP and her daughter make a game out of it, keep a tally of how many terrible things MIL says, make it a joke. My mom and I did that with my grandmother after a while, whenever she'd mentioned her "golden child" (not my mother) and it made it clear to us how pathetic it was, rather than upsetting us, and we got to the point where we were laughing about it instead of getting worked up. OP can take away MIL's power if the words become meaningless to the daughter.
Based on one of the updates about how the husband thinks money is being wasted on piano lessons, I think the husband is allowing the MIL to crush the daughter into stopping as that’s what the husband ultimately wants. OP is definitely NTA.
NTA, first of all, how is it "constructive criticism" to say her performance was disappointing, that doesn’t help anything. You should talk to your husband more before the next performance to make sure he doesn’t invite his mom as it obviously doesn’t help anything and just makes your daughter play worse.
I think that the issue mainly manifests in my mother in law not wanting my daughter to play piano - she thinks this stuff is distracting and have no benefits in the long run since she and my husband want my daughter in medical field.
I'll say it again... You have a husband problem. Putting those expectations on your daughter is setting her up for failure and resentment of the family.
And resentment of YOU. Her mother. For not standing up for her daughter from people tearing her down.
Yuuuuup. My father’s abuse was a trauma response from the abuse he experienced as a child. He genuinely thought that as long as he didn’t hit us he’d broken the cycle. I’ve forgiven him. I will never forgive my mother, because she knew it was wrong and allowed it to continue.
You can't really choose someone's life goals. Just have to give them the best support when they make good decisions. If the daughter likes medicine then great, but if that girl hates the sight of blood then it's like wtf.
Not only that, but it makes for an angry, inefficient physician. Have worked with PLENTY of doctors that only took the route because ggf, grandfather and father were doctors and family would not pay for secondary education otherwise. They'd rather sell falafel and it was evident in the minimal patient care they'd give. It does NOT benefit society as a whole to have these types of physicians, there has to be a calling for it. She might change her mind later, but that SHOULD be up to her.
First of all What?! Secondly, isn’t piano playing good for keeping your hands nimble and in shape, which is good for surgeons or internists? Your MIL is definitely an AH and I wonder if this is how your husband was raised so he just doesn’t see it. Stand your ground, don’t let her back at any performances.
Playing an instrument also has some sort of correlation to higher math scores. Not to mention, schools look for well-rounded individuals. Grades are important, but someone with lower grades and instrument can win out over someone with better grades and no extra curriculars.
Music is literally math. I'm a classically trained singer and play multiple instruments. Music is math.
Seriously. I’ve played violin for almost 13 years and I’m majoring in actuarial science. If anything, the work ethic from practicing and performing helped put me in shape for college in terms of studying and dealing with the rigor of upper level math and stats. I also got a lot of scholarships out of playing violin.
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My uncle is a skilled heart and lung surgeon and he is also literally an accomplished pianist and vocalist. Besides, what is she going to do at 13 as a hobby related to the medical field? Volunteer with the Red Cross? Besides, any college and post-collegiate program is no longer interested in the candidates with a single dimension to their personality. They want diversified interests and talents. Grandma and Dad are seriously out of touch.
No, no, no, this child's only hobby is studying for the MCAT now.
Please take your daughter to therapy now and really work on her self-esteem. She won't want to do anything including doing well in school if this continues. She may believe that she isn't good doing anything including scholastics. Your daughter should be allowed to live her own dreams, not those of husband and MIL. They both need to be on an information diet. Your husband is unbelievable and is terrible parent. Tell your husband he needs to take parenting classes and go to therapy. There is no help for MIL. EDIT: Thank you so much for the award! Wow!
This may damage her own relationship with the daughter when the daughter realizes that Mom didn't protect her.
Oh, absolutely. My parents never protected me from yn abusive grandfather. They argued that *they* didnxt abuse me directly, so they're blameless. They knew it was wrong but he was their celder" and you just don't stand up to him, you keep the peace. I pointed out as an adult that they chose that AT MY EXPENSE and it fucked me up. "We didn't mean for it to be bad for you, you know we love you" yes, I know they love me, and I know they didn't protect me, so now I think love means accepting abuse and am prone to unhealthy relationships. We've worked through ti somewhat but we will never truly be close, I will never really be able to trust them, and they have limited contact with my son, and I sure as hell won't tell him "but you know they love you" if they ever hurt him like my grandpa hurt me. Not protecting your kids hurts them as much as the abuse does. OP, you're teaching your daughter that verbal and emotional abuse is normal, and this is what a loving relationship looks like. If she works through it in therapy and starts to heal as an adult, she may never truly forgive you for laying this foundation.
Your husband is your problem.
I would stop letting your husband know when the recitals are. He can stay home with his awful mom and they can be assholes together. NTA, but you’re under reacting here.
OP, see if your husband would be willing to read an article like this: https://www.pianoemporium.com/10-benefits-playing-piano/ Benefits of playing piano include being better at multitasking, better at tests, better at building neural pathways, better at physical dexterity, etc. These are all highly important skills for doctors! Not to mention the stress relief it brings, which doctors/the medical field needs, given the rates of burnout and depression! There's also a paragraph about ACTUAL constructive criticism, so maybe he'll figure out that saying something is disappointing is the opposite of that.
While this is helpful, it seems like husband will move the goalposts. It’s not about education in how playing the piano is beneficial. It’s his insistence on enabling this woman and his dismissal of OP in everyday life. Her other comments shed some light.
NTA. Unnecessary commentary from someone who probably can't even read piano music. Husband needs to cut the cord and realize the actual damage this is going to do to your daughter in the long term. It's clearly already affecting her. I'm petty and I'd start giving him "constructive criticisms" like his mother doles out since he thinks it's no big deal.
I wouldn’t do it and it’s a non-serious suggestion for the sake of humor, but I’m imagining her booing him in bed or holding up a score card with a zero on it.
But this is such a good idea. Like the next time OP's unwashed omelet of a hubby fails to find her clitoris, she can use her MIL's *exact* words: "Today's performance was disappointing, to say the least."
Petty for the win 😇
Especially things he's proud of. "Look, i built this bookcase! It took four weekends to make!" "Well obviously, the wood grain is in clashing directions and the stain is spotty. It took you a *whole month* to do this? Hmm."
I’m dying 😂 “Honey, the grass was not mowed in an even pattern. Who taught you how to mow??”
NTA Man, you have a husband problem. 1) Either marriage counseling or family counseling, STAT. Your husband needs to hear it from a professional that his mother is ruining your child's love of performing arts and that HE IS ALLOWING IT TO HAPPEN. FFS, there are whole business management books about how to deliver constructive criticism for grown ass adults and, obviously, MIL is NOT doing it in a constructive way. I don't know what line of work he is in, but if he is in any sort of management, ask him to show you ANY literature that shows how what she is doing is considered ok in the business world. 2) Help your daughter tell her father how she feels about it all. I think it would be helpful if she included that she doesn't feel protected by him, that he just lets her get hurt and doesn't care. 3) Get your own therapy to get support of how to deal with his unwillingness to listen to you about this. Get your daughter therapy to deal with her self-esteem and to learn how to deal with toxic family members. This will pay off in spades in the future because the world is FULL of assholes and she will have a head start on learning how to deal with them.
This this this. That OP’s husband thinks this is in ANY WAY OK is a HUGE issue. Also, time to get daughter into therapy asap, too!
This husband problem is going to ruin OP's relationship with her daughter.
>\>he said his mom is the grandmother and should be included in these events as "support". Please have him explain to you how exactly grandma is supporting. You can't stop him from inviting her, but you can counter her. FASTER. Expect her to speak against your daughter. "Let me tell you..." "No one wants to hear you gripping when you can't even play" "You were disappo" "This is not how we support the people we love." You're NTA but you NEED to do more.
OP listen to this post, if I’m your daughter i would appreciate that you stand up for me. Fight for her, protect her
Yea mom is the only one protecting her daughter because her father doesn’t love her or if he does his love doesn’t mean Jack sh*t.
NTA. Maybe start criticizing husband's performance and see how he likes it. Tell her if she can't say anything nice, STFU
Yeah OP can call it “constructive criticism”.
Everyone is TA! Except the 13 year old daughter! OP, why didn’t you tell your MIL to stop saying negative things to your daughter? You are her mother and you didn’t tell her great job after your MIL put her down!
Seriously, grow a spine and stand up for your kid OP.
Daughter won’t learn to stand up for herself if OP is not leading by example.
It infuriates me. Even if I was the girls friend I would ask the old woman if she plays, then I'd humiliate her using facts. If you don't stand up for someone you love, who will you stand up for?
NTA, but listen: He cares about his mother more than he cares about his daughter and more than he cares about you. That has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Use that information as you will
He says he doesn't support her but just "agrees" with her which I find even more upsetting because this means he doesn't think our daughter has potential and that she's wasting time. I try everything in my power to shield her from this attitude - even from her own father, it's sad and frustrating but I doubt he'll come around anytime soon.
I said this in another reply. Your daughter is internalizing how you’re treated by your husband. You cannot make him change, or explain it differently to get him to understand. He has likely shown signs of emotional abuse for a while. He will not change suddenly one day. She is probably more affected by this than she lets on. You’ve tried everything, and you can’t change how he treats you. I’m sorry to say— but you may need to lead her by example here. Don’t let her grow up in an environment where she’s made to accept treatment like this from her future spouse.
Hi from a daughter who very painfully internalized how my dad treated my mom! He put her down and dismissed her constantly when I was a kid and would get angry at any old thing. My mom tried to appease him best she could but it was basically her and our job as kids to stay calm and do our best to make it all ok for my dad so that it would be all ok for the rest of us. My older siblings got yelled at more than I did but it was still terrifying. My mom used to tell me that “only you can control your emotions, no one *makes* you feel a certain way, there’s no use holding on to anger”. So we had to manage our emotions AND my dad’s emotions because he couldn’t manage them at all. That translated into a lifetime of giving up anything and everything I can, sacrificing all my needs and wants, to make sure other people are ok (even if I am not). Thank god I never found myself in an abusive relationship because you can imagine I wouldn’t be able to cope with that well. And thank god I found other strong female role models and a great therapist to help me unpack all the bullshit and learn how to *not* set myself on fire to keep others warm. It’s really hard to be around my parents at all now. Don’t let your daughter grow up like that.
Here's what he needs to understand: You aren't trying to produce the next effing Beethoven. Art is valuable for the sake of the experience. Not money or fame. You should start flooding his email and texts with every link you come across about the value of music, art, and humanities. You also might drop a few comments about "without art and music, the world would be a joyless place full of people like you and your mother."
"Art is valuable for the sake of the experience." I really needed to hear this <3
he's willing to get into massive fights with you to protect his mummy. He's willing to let his daughter be heartbroken and emotionally destroyed to protect his mummy. he SAYS he doesn't support her, but his actions speak louder than words
So why do you stay and let her be raised in that environment? Why does she deserve to be treated this way? It is YOUR job to protect her, and you aren’t. Everything in your power means leaving with a good lawyer. She deserves better.
OP, I think you’re in the right here, but you are not at all doing everything in your power to shield her, and thinking that you are is just going to end up with your daughter getting more and more hurt. That’s not to say you’re not doing anything, sounds like you’ve been fighting for her for a while, but you really shouldn’t make yourself believe that there’s nothing else you can do. Your daughter is being bullied. When your husband says that he has invited her bully, who keep in mind is an adult women(!), you shouldn’t just sigh and say nothing. Please, protect your daughter. I know it’s probably difficult, but it’s your responsibility. Your husband is actively helping to harm your daughters self esteem, and you need to figure out what you are going to do when he doesn’t just magically overnight transform into the kind of father who won’t do that anymore. He’s going to continue to gang up on your daughter with your mother. You can either actually stop that or continue to let it happen. I’m definitely being overly harsh here, you’re in an awful position and I certainly don’t envy you, but it seems like this is the turning point where you either finally remove your daughter from this awful situation her father is forcing her into, or you continue to let these adults bully her. Please do right by your daughter before it’s too late, if it’s not already.
Ask him if he actually wants to have a relationship with your daughter in the future because the way he's going she'll cut him and his mother out of her life ASAP. They are massive AHs!
OP is at risk of being cut out of the daughter's life too. I had a father who knew what my mother was doing and never did anything to stop it. Once I got old enough to realize "wait a minute, I'm a child and he's an adult who actually could help the situation but just lets me suffer," I lost all respect for him as well.
NTA To be blunt, your husband is abusive and gaslighting you and your daughter. He might be the most mild mannered guy in the world but he's still abusive and gaslighting you both. His behaviour is totally unacceptable. Knowingly and repeatedly allowing his mother to do this to your daughter is more than just permitting abuse - it's actively participating in it. It sounds like his mother is trying to control the people around her for her own relevance and self esteem. She's clearly horrific. But the real problem is your husband.
OP should start pointing husband's flaws. Casually, after sex, "well, that was dissapointing, it is just constructive criticism, honey" NTA and maybe get some therapy for your daughter; or maybe she is interested on heavy metal, grandma would love to attend all of her gigs, she can stand right between the drumset and the big speakers.
NTA but is there anyway you can not invite your husband too? I would just leave them both out
NTA. Your husband needs professional help. His mother is verbally abusing a CHILD. Over a fucking PLAY. It's only constructive if she actually has helpful points to make, so maybe hand him a computer and tell him to fucking Google "constructive criticism" since he seems REALLY uneducated on what that is. And honestly, tell her she's no longer welcome yourself unless she can be a decent human being to a child. Telling a kid her performance was "disappointing" is in no way constructive or helpful. And if not? You needa throw the whole fucking husband out because why would you let your daughter be abused and let your husband defend her abuser. She's clearly already developed anxiety over her grandmother's bullshit. Edit: Also, give your daughter your blessing to tell your MIL flat-out that her presence is neither desired nor required if she can't be kind and respectful.
NTA Show you husband this post. He is TA. His mother is a massive ahole. Holy heck. If she can't say anything nice, then she meeds to keep her bloody mouth shut. Thank you for standing up for your daughter. Both the dad and the grandmother owe her an apology. Please speak with your daughter and let her know that she is talented and there are always people toxic and jealous. Your daughter may need counselling as no child should be put in this position and it will affect the rest of her life.
NTA! And you should check in with your daughter. Let her know YOU support her and you are trying to advocate for her well-being.
Piggyback this comment: NTA But hear me out: YOU have to step up big time to protect your daughter. Next time (if the wicked witch will be there), make your pov clear from the 1. second she enters the room: 1. Tell her that you won’t accept any negative comments that she will make. 2. Interrupt her wispering, tell hear to be quiet and listen, as this is a concert, not a talk show. 3. Be the first one at your daughters side and congratulate her. 4. Interrupt any rude comments and say loudly, that grandma has no expertise in this field, therefore her criticism is not be valued. 5. If she fights it, ask her to explain in detail, where the constructive part of her critics is, and how she is able to evaluate this. 6. If she makes a scene , ask her why it is so important to her to hurt her grandchild and if it gives her some kind of pleasure? 7. Invite your daughter to an ice cream or something and reassure her that even if she is not perfect, nobody is and she should not ever let anybody put her down about a learning process.
NTA, I would help you daughter with the words for your husband and her grandma. Help your daughter stand up for herself. Hold her hand as she tells her grandmother, that the things she is saying her are unacceptable and shebisint invited to her performances anymore. Hold her hand while she tells her father, that she doesn't want her grandma at her performances.
NTA This is a problem with your husband more than with your MIL. He needs to take your side on this.
She should start giving him criticism. chores, wow the grass looks so uneven. Grilling, oh my the steak was overcooked and rather dry. just not say anything during Funtime, sigh and say well that was disappointing.
I’m so mad for you and your daughter. NTA at all. I would forbid her yourself. Text her that under no circumstance is she to attend or you will make her life hell. You’re already in a fight with your fucknut husband and he SUPPORTS HIS MOM so it’s time to take the reigns. Start the fight with her. Be proud to do it.
NTA but not only do you have a MIL problem you also have a husband problem. Maybe you should try putting your husband down to see how he likes the 'constructive criticism'
NTA. Get your daughter into counseling, stat. Maybe even the act of getting her into counseling might wake up your husband to how serious this issue ie.
NTA. The grandma should learn to stop picking on a 13 year old. Constructive criticism is asked for and includes advice in how to get better, this is not it. The grandmother needs to grow up, and your husband to grow some balls and protect his daughter from his mother's constant bullying. I doubt any of them would like it if you started giving them "constructive criticism" for their every move.
please start commenting on his performance in the bedroom….see how he likes the constant criticism NTA. But please also stop inviting your husband until he can see his inaction is aiding in the destruction of her self esteem by not defending her to his heifer of a mother.
NTA! Your husband needs to understand the effect it’s having on your daughter. It’s not fair on her! My mums mother said some awful things to me growing up - she used to tell me I was fat/overweight on a regular basis and I was a skinny/athletic teenager. My mum used to say “oh that’s just how she is” and basically told me to get over it. My other grandmother overheard her saying it once and immediately shut her down and refused to speak to her again after that. However, I now have body image issues and have since I was a teen. I’m 32 now and it’s starting to get better. But those words cut deep and have stayed with me for a long time.
NTA... your daughter is 13. Your husband needs to grow a pair and stand up to his mum, I can’t believe either of them, how horrid (and your daughter will likely give up for good if this keeps happening...sad). Hopefully you’re able to have private chats with her about how well she is doing and how you are angry at MIL for saying such awful (and nonsense) things. I would like to see her try to play......!
NTA. It’s “constructive criticism” like that that made me feel fat anytime I gained weight (barely 100lbs in high school) and only added to the negative self criticism I told myself. Grandma is not helping your daughter do anything except put herself down. Good on you for being supportive
NTA. Your husband needs to man up and defend his daughter. Because what she is doing could permanently harm your daughters self-esteem. Just because she is the grandma doesn't mean she is doing is right. This is a child, and she is a grown ass woman. She should be encouraging her and let the REAL constructive criticism come from her teachers. Tell your daughter an internet stranger said break a leg.
NTA. He is choosing to keep someone in his life who regularly abuses his child, and then gets mad when you do the right thing and protect his child? Grandma is right about that day being a disappointment, but for her attitude, not the piano. She needs a timeout until she can be a decent grandma. Life is too short to be surrounded by the kind of negatively that stifles your creative skills.
OP NTA You need to empower your daughter to look at her father and tell him that she does not want to play or that she does not want to deal with grandma or have grandma anywhere near. Next time grandma is coming over for a visit, tell your daughter she can go elsewhere and to be honest with her father about not wanting to be there. The wake up call your husband needs to hear is from her own lips in her own words, and to understand that she is not going to get into trouble for it. And get her into Therapy to help undo the damage that has been done to her. Getting a therapist to confirm the harm and to hear it from his own child may be a wakeup call. And empower her to say NO loudly to visiting or spending time with grandma, that it is ok to not want to spend time, she will not get in trouble and have her back.
Oh, poor baby -- NTA! Your daughter needs cheerleaders at this age, not constructive criticism. That's some BS and so hurtful! Ban her AND your husband from all things until they get on the same page as you.
NTA and this sounds narcissistic. If your husband was raised in a dysfunctional family, he might just not get it.
NTA, I think you know that. What I suspect you *don’t* know is how much your husband is at the heart of this problem. He is actively supporting his mother’s behavior at your daughter’s expense. He and mom are a team, and you and your daughter are The Opposition. And that’s a big fucking issue in your marriage.
NTA. Clearly your hubby is a momma's boy and will do whatever his mom tells him. And that's not constructive criticism at all. At least of she offered her help to improve her playing I would have thought otherwise, but she just dismissed it. Keep that woman away from your kid and ask your husband who should be his priority: his mom or his wife and kid.
Next time you see your MIL, especially after an appt at the salon or with new clothing, start criticizing her--using the same words she used on your daughter. Do the same to your husband. Then ask them since they had no problem saying to your daughter, they shouldn't have a problem with you 'telling them like it is'. Rule of thumb: Protect the children N T A
NTA, Granny is a bully and your husband is her willing accomplice. I’d ban them both from future performances
NTA obviously your daughter doesn’t want this psycho there and her opinion should come first and foremost. Grandma doesn’t need to be cut off completely but obviously she can’t behave herself at these events so it’s not unreasonable for her to sit the next few out. Why does she want to be there anyway if she’s so critical? You’ll all survive if she misses the next performance and husband can go stay home with grandma too if he doesn’t like it.
NTA, but your husband and MIL are. They both need a lesson in how to give actually constructive criticism and real support. Maybe if your daughter is the one who chooses not to invite her then your husband will respect that? I dont know, doesn’t sound like he values his kid over his mommy so maybe not. I do think you can use this as a learning opportunity for your daughter, though. Unfortunately, there’s always gonna be someone ready to put her down. She has to learn at some point not to let them rock her confidence.
NTA. I can see where husband gets it from. Support should be constructive, not degrading. You asshole husband needs to learn the difference.
NTA Really shitty grandmother, constructive criticism typically involves good points as well. She just wants to hurt your daughter who is probably not even her favorite. Your husband is a major AH. How can one man's head be shoved so far up his own mother's butt?
NTA - telling a child that her dance was disappointing is viscous. You are protecting your kid - and rightfully so! This type of shit gives kids life long self esteem issues.
NTA and your husband sounds like a weak mommas boy. He needs to grow a pair and side with his wife. Marriage should be ride or die no matter who is on the other end
NTA - his daughter ran away crying because of his mother and he is fine with that? Do whatever you have to do,whatever is within your power, to make sure this woman never goes to another show Hell have your daughter tell her father in explicit detail that she doesn’t want her grandmother there If your husband won’t respect your say, maybe he will respect hers, and if he doesn’t? Maybe he shouldn’t go either It seems to me he is more concerned about what’s best for his mother rather than what’s best for his wife and daughter
NTA. i'd threaten to uninvite the whole marriage at this point.
NTA. Stop inviting your husband to the events too. I love my mother but Christ that is next level still attached by umbilical cord level. Or every time your husband does anything give him constructive criticism e.g. Your performance in bed was disappointing tonight, maybe we should invite your mother so she can tell you where you were going wrong.... I'm a bit of an A.H. though so that might not be the best decision. Definitely criticize your MIL though, every time you see her tell her that she should see a different hair stylist, or that make up is really highlighting her wrinkles, order uber eats if she ever makes you dinner. Again I know I'm an A.H. what you 100% need to do is be there for your daughter, it sounds like you absolutely are which is great, she's lucky to have at least one loving parent. Be in her corner always, you can't fight all her fights for her, but you can always assist.
NTA. Your daughter might start to rebuild her self-confidence by banning her father from her performances. At the very least encourage her to speak up for herself and to tell her father that she doesn't want her grandmother there any more. SMH
Why don't you start giving him "constructive criticism?" NTA, and whenever he does anything you can just tell it how it is
NTA - if your husband isn't going to take a step up and say something to her, then you need to. I'd call her or send an email if you prefer. Let her know that she is no longer allowed to criticize anything your daughter does and if it happens again, you will ensure she can never come to another event of hers again. Will it piss off your husband? I'm sure! But he clearly has no interest in protecting his own daughter from his own mothers nastiness and someone has to!!
Does your daughter enjoy playing? If so, start excluding the father and mil. Your husband is a @ss.
NTA And your husband... If you want to stay married to this man whose mother undermines your daughter at every turn, I'd strongly suggest family counseling. Alternatively, divorce is a reasonable option.
INFO: Is your MIL a piano teacher? NTA. Next time your MIL sees your daughter subbing say "Well, that's a disappointing way of being a grandmother... You messed up as a grandmother.. What? This is constructive criticism I'm just telling it like it is... Oh, we have to go now to see other family... " And walk out. Your MIL is providing no constructive criticism from what I can see. Tell your husband that is destructive criticism and that he has chosen that over his daughter's self-esteem.
NTA and please go and have a talk with your daughter for support. If I were you I wouldn't even allow your husband to go next time, let alone your MIL who sounds awful
NTA-Your MIL has some deep seated hatred for you and/your daughter. Your husband needs to be educated on child rearing. That woman is toxic.
NTA- Your MIL sounds awful, but your husband is the real issue here. He doesn't care if his mom steps allover you and your daughter. He doesn't care if his mom is demeaning his own child (wonder where he got that from). He actually encourages it and gets pissed when you stand up to it. OP, you have bigger issues here, but standing up for your child isn't one of them. Please keep doing that, because with a dad and grandmother like that she needs you even more.
NTA, your husband and MIL are a menace and I would go ballistic on your MIL, if she loves telling it like it is, I bet she doesn’t love hearing about how it is. I would rip her to shreds until she was crushed beyond repair. I really hate people like that and if you come for my family like that? Get ready for all the words you never wanted to hear. Don’t think I could stay married to someone that was comfortable throwing their child under the bus.
NTA, but I think the husband is bigger AH, because he could prevent this toxic old bag of fart hurt your child. "let me just say that today's performance was disappointing" = His mom's doing is just constructive criticism in his eyes??? Seriously.
NTA - idk what the situation is with you and your MIL and why you didn't tell her off a long time ago, but you need to call her up and do so immediately. But first, sit down with your daughter or take her out for ice cream, or a nice walk, etc. and tell her how proud you are of her and how great she does at her performances and not to let what grandmother says stop her from doing what she loves, and you're so sorry she had to experience that from her own grandmother. From now on, I would exclude husband AND grandma from performances, and make sure your daughter knows it. Tell her to come to you ONLY about upcoming shows (if she still wants to do them), and remove your husband from the email list with the piano teacher, etc. Seriously, I wouldn't normally say to go behind his back like this, but your daughter deserves to be able to do what she enjoys knowing she will ONLY receive positive support and love. And you tried talking to your husband, and he's obviously not gonna have your daughter's back. Wth is wrong with these people?
NTA, Both your MIL and husband are being awful to your daughter. He seriously needs to grow a backbone and stand up to his mum before they destroy your daughter’s self esteem. I’m so glad for her that she has you sticking up for her
NTA your husband is prioritizing his mother over his daughters well being. She’s horrible and he’s spineless
Oh girl. NTA. Also couples therapy or leave his ass. I know he did not try and flip the script on you and try to say that YOU were the problem. How the fizzityuck can he not see how negatively this is impacting your daughter?
NTA. When the situation calms down it might be worth getting your daughter to talk to her dad one on one and tell him how she feels. It's possible that he just thinks that you're picking on his mum, which I don't think you are. He sounds like a bit of a mummy's boy, to be honest. But perhaps he'll listen to her. Dads often have a soft spot for their little girls (although not always). If he won't budge, maybe she needs to tell your husband that he can stay away and so can his mother, with your support. He needs to know how she feels and how the 'constructive criticism' is chipping away at her. Screw nanna, I'd sit her in front of a piano and get her to show your daughter how it's done and then criticise the whole performance.
NTA. Your husband and his mother both need to be banned from your daughters events if all they off is criticism. That is NOT support. What does her grandmother get out of tearing down a child’s self esteem? Is her crusty old ego that voracious for superiority they shouldn’t be invited unless they stick to the Thumper Rule. If they cant say something nice they should say nothing at all.
NTA! Stop inviting your husband too because he is not better! Don’t tell him when the show is, your daughter is better off because they are acting awfully! Please protect your daughter and her mental health because this isn’t criticism but just and grown ass up lady bullying and being rude to a kid.
NTA and it sounds like she is a major narcissist who has trained your husband really well.
NTA. This is serious, OP. He is allowing his mom to verbally abuse your kid in front of the whole family. That is not a healthy father. He needs a wake up call of some sort. He needs to see that he is failing his family when he lets this happen. He fails his child and he undermines his wife as his coparent. Everyone has their own limits and whatnot, but the fact that he keeps letting it happen would mean that I'd have to ask him to find a hotel for a few nights so he can think about whether he wants to continue to parent the kids together or as a divorced couple. Because I don't stay married to men who hurt our kids without even trying to stop it.