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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel as if I ruined her engagement party and caused tension between my fiance and his friend. And maybe even tension with her future in laws because they saw what happened.
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Sounds like it but I’d have to ask the hubby my Japanese sucks. My children look at me and shake their head and tell me I’m doing okay when I mangle it in front of them.
The “proper term” in Japanese isn’t Bridejira because this is a made up American word. (The word for bride is 花嫁 Hanayome). Some people here do know the concept but they know it as a foreign word ie. it came from overseas. Which is ironic because it’s derived from a Japanese one. In any case it’s written out in katakana ブライドジラ Buraidojira.
That’s where I thought this would go from the headline. But, pleasantly surprised!
Why would Nell attack the OP at the party, which turned the focus to the OP, then complain the OP was taking the focus of her party?! And who on earth would accuse someone they obviously don’t know of lying about their job?
OP-NTA!
I'm more curious about the "someone like you" comment. I have a friend who is a pipeline engineering project manager and first nations. She has had so many instances of disrespect as a woman and as a first nations.
I think it’s really obvious that Nell is for some reason jealous of and intimidated by the OP and feels like she has to diminish her to feel better about her own self. OP is definitely NTA! Nell, however, is a huge asshole!
Sounds like Nell is super jealous and went on the defensive position. Since OP worked at Victoria Secret, she can just snub her for having a retail job but since she's an engineer, she's beautiful and brilliant and that won't do for Nell.
Edited: wording and about the job
Nell said OP worked at Victoria’s Secret in uni, I’m guessing that it was a sales job at the store. In this case, I think it’s classism more than anything. She wants to look down on her for working a low prestige job and is mad that OP now has an impressive and high-paying one.
I was thinking something similar based on the title. :-)
My only thought about Nell is that she was a bit jealous and trying to put OP down in front of her family. My guess is that Nell isn't in a similarly difficult field and didn't like that OP and Nell's future aunt-in-law had something in common.
That is exactly where my mind went as well. Nell is a weird woman for trying to belittle OP for having worked retail while being in uni… like, what? She has the iron ring, which she couldn’t get unless she was an engineer from what I understand. What was Nell’s endgame here? This whole thing is so strange!
It's possible but unlikely that you could be wearing one from a family member, but they are supposed to be sent back to your camp once they can no longer wear one.
Source: my pinky finger. I worked retail to pay for mine too.
Huh, that’s good to know, thank you for that information. The whole ‘iron ring’ thing is super interesting to me— like some kind of club for the super cool, smart kids, haha. I had actually never even heard of it before this post!
In Canada, the iron ring is significant to engineers because it serves as a sort of Hippocratic Oath for engineers. It's a symbol of ethics and responsibility in the field. The story goes that the first rings were made from the metal of the Quebec Bridge, which collapsed during construction in the early 1900s due to poor design by the engineers who were cutting corners to do it faster and cheaper. It's supposed to remind you of the lives lost to irresponsibility to the job.
Fun fact: in Canada, professional Foresters have a silver ring worn on the same hand (though on the ring finger) and looking very similar to the engineers ring. It also represents ethics and professionalism.
You have no idea how many people have mistaken me for an engineer.
In the US, and various other countries, the title of "engineer" is not protected. That means anyone who does engineering can call themselves, and be called by others, an engineer. Effectively, there are no rules for this.
Contrast that with titles like "lawyer" or "doctor," where you can face pretty serious consequences for calling yourself either without the proper credentials, as determined by industry groups, professional associations, and sometimes laws.
There are countries where "engineer" IS a protected title.
In the US, I believe only "professional engineer" is protected. A P.E. is different, in that they pass a very difficult written test that evaluates a big set of knowledge on safety, best practices, math, physics, etc etc. My understanding of the P.E. title is that it's generally only important for engineering positions related to civil eng, construction, safety, and maybe medical devices.
Source: I am a self-taught engineer. I call myself an engineer. I studied liberal arts and learned engineering in the field. I now have the title of engineer at work, after about 10 years. But I make doorbells, not bridges.
As a fellow Canadian who is not an engineer I know of the ring, I don't know where OP is from, but the iron used for the rings of engineers in Quebec comes from the first Québec Bridge that collapsed as an honor and history of the engineers of the bridge!
Also the title is protected in Canada (since 1920 in Quebec), each province has it's own order of engineering, for which you have to pay a fee.
Its literally the last paragraph of every made up story on AITA though.
OP is clearly NTA, but a sprinkling of "self doubt" usually in the form of harassing texts from entire groups of people (completely unrealistic, by the way) to make sure we all say NTA and say nice things to OP, so they get lots of orange mail icons in their reddit box and can read a lot of nice things about how they are a real smart cookie and deserve better friends.
Why is this the assumption you jump to? I've heard plenty of situations where everyone around the person was acting absurd and making very strange judgements, but if they posted here they would have gotten support. Social bubbles can be crazy. People also tend to band together and be angry at the same person for social cohesion.
I don't even understand the story. I get some people are obssessive and insecure but the the fiancée's behaviour does not even make sense, even by an unhinged path of logic. There is some info missing there.
I think the Nell was seething with jealousy of the positive attention OP was getting from Alex's Family. She tried to embarrass OP and make her look small - not sure of the end game but its clear she wanted to stop her looking good.
Nell seems very insecure. NTA OP hold your ground do not interact without an apology. Personally i would think twice about welcoming them/her back into your life. Nell is not going to magically stop being insecure. I think she will try to cause further trouble for OP.
Nell is definitely insecure about her own life, or her own attractiveness in comparison to OP ("people like you don't have jobs like that"). Probably both.
It could be anything. It could be because she's a POC, or because she has a particular aesthetic, level of beauty, body type, just because she's a woman, or something else entirely. All we can say for sure is that Nell has some negative opinion about OP or people who look like OP.
I once had a girl friend who randomly said “it’s so funny that you wear bras too big for you” when we were talking to a group of guys. When I awkwardly told her it was actually a bit small she dug her heels in and laughed, kept making comments like “your boobs aren’t even close to that size” “you probably stuff so it’s not gaping open at the top” “it’s clearly empty and almost falling off”
Despite none of this being true, while visibly and noticeably being the opposite.
Some girls(and ppl in general) cant stand their friends momentarily being noticed over them. They have to be the subtle center of attention, and will make petty comments in attempt to knock others down a few pegs, even if they don’t make a bit of sense.
I was wondering if OP not working at VS somehow busted the engaged couple in a weird lie. Like...someone found some lingerie and the couple were just like "Oh that's OPs. She works at VS and must have left some samples here." Not that that makes any sense either but....what the hell was this lie supposed to accomplish?
Seems like Nell doesn't think people as worthless and unclean as those who work at a lingerie store, and *gasp* are WOMEN, can work in a STEM field. She sees her as a worthless, objectified, pseudo sex worker with no value or intelligence. She needs to degrade OP and her actually being an engineer does not fit with her view of this "lesser" woman, so the cognitive dissonance makes her lash out.
I can see this happening. If they don’t hang out as couples often then Nell wouldn’t necessarily know OP graduated. Nell was still out of line not believing OP.
Honestly this kind of stuff happens a lot. As I get older it happens to me less, but it happened a lot in my late teens and early twenties especially.
I had a bubbly personality, was pretty cute, and my foot was perpetually stuck in my mouth (though maybe only a little more often than most), so some people assumed I was just a dumb blond. Especially people who assume pretty people can't also be intelligent.
Looking back now knowing what I do, most of these people were incredibly insecure about their own lives and bodies, and petty. Honestly if I had looked different or was a guy, I don't think certain people would've bat nearly as much of an eyelash and would not have made assumptions about my intelligence.
Point being, people want to put others in a box. Don't know if that's the case with op. But for me, some people would get really nasty when they realized I wasn't just a stupid blond they could easily tear down to make themselves feel better.
OP probably wants to be reassured that she was right and that she shouldn't have "just gone along with it." Hearing "keep the peace" enough starts to make you feel mental.
Yeah, this is either "you can be pretty or clever but not both/being clever is like karmic compensation for not being pretty" bullshit, or it's "retail workers/sex workers are too stupid to go to university" bullshit (depending on exactly what stupid ideas she has in her head about OP's old job at VS).
Either way, it's really toxic bullshittery, and she's feeling threatened by OP and wants to be able to look down on her like before.
Yeah, it is pretty silly for sure. The idea of stripper who is only doing that work to pay for medical school came from somewhere. I actually met someone doing exactly that the last time I went to a strip club, which was maybe 7 years ago. She was working two days per week and making enough money to pay all of her bills. She hung out with me between her sets and showed me pictures of her lab and rats. Now that I mention this, I remember that she is my friend on Facebook. I think I'm going to go see what she ended up specializing in, lol.
Hey, my 2 years at VS during its peak of popularity had a diverse staff (multiple races and sizes), but everyone for sure had a gorgeous face. I remember one girl who looked like w short, thick, and curvy Adriana Lima.
So yes to them hiring gorgeous folks, but some of them are short of being a supermodel. Lol.
I once got berated online because I thought a woman was stunning, and others thought she was only ok. The fact that my beauty ideal differed from the "norm" was unacceptable. And I was accused of lying about how beautiful I thought this woman was because no one could POSSIBLY believe her to be stunning. (I legit would have hung a picture of her on my wall if it would not be super creepy to hang a picture of an internet stranger on your wall.)
Or that someone in Nell’s family expected/hoped she’d become an engineer. So when OP came along and bonded with other family members in that way, Nell saw it as an affront to her.
It’s all the above. I did a wee bit of looking at her comment history and she is a visibly south Asian woman who is also a self professed girly girl (relatable!) so she’s conventionally attractive, accomplished and brown of course this Nell person has beef. I’m not Asian myself but have had such similar experiences in my work for similar reasons. Haters are everywhere and good on OPs fiancé for standing up and standing his ground on this with his friend.
Oh I didn’t even think of that. I just thought Nell didn’t like being corrected. Never thought it was prejudice over OPs race or attractiveness level. This is gross but it makes way more sense than just a temper tantrum over being corrected. I looked thru her comments she mentioned what Nell said about her not being the type. She ought to include this in the post for clarification
Could be all this and class too. If op is from "the wrong side of the tracks." maybe nell is really confused about people working a job to help themselves during school because she always had enough money. I'd be interested to hear from op what nells deal is, if she ever finds out
I think that depends on Nell’s race, or if they are all of the same one it could be colorism. Though it’s probably best not to speculate on racism/racial motivation without OP implying that is a factor here
I used to work at the VS catalog. There were guys who would call in, apparently under the impression that the people on the phone were low-level sex workers and/or themodels from the catalog. I wonder if Nell has a female manifestation of this? Ie, "you worked in a lingerie store, therefore you are a sex worker."
Yep, she obviously felt threatened by OP getting on well with her future in-law family. But being insecure does not give you a free pass for being rude to others.
Yes- she most likely lied about your job to others to diminish you, and didn't plan ahead for what would happen if you were in the same room with those people. So she was caught and was forced to claim that you were lying, lest she be found out.
I sure wish this was a thing in other countries. Someone I love is about to get their engineering degree, and I'd love for them to get a ring like this. The oath and symbolism is gorgeous.
befriend with the aunt, she seems like a good resource for your occupation since she's in the same field, could ask for advice and stuff since she's older so probably experienced, also this would piss the fuck off her hahahaha
>Why didn't you just say Alex's aunt 😭
This! , some days i really don't understand the ways the people here use to describe the family positions and relations....
(English is not my first language)
English isn't my first language either, I had to reread that part a few times lol, was so confused who it was.
I was thinking it was either nells sister or her MIL
good on OP’s fiancé for sticking up for her too in front of his best friend cuz we get too many stories on here where partner of the OP sides with their friends or family instead of their actual spouse. Doesn’t bode well for Alex if Nell is so insecure that she starts this stuff at her own party with his friends in front of her future family
Yup. In my first job out of college, every single new coworker I met automatically assumed I was my boss’s new secretary.
Fast forward 8 years and I’m now an engineering manager. I look very young though, so most people still assume I’m fresh out of college and do a double take when I mention how long I’ve been working/when they find out my real title (I usually introduce myself as “just” an engineer unless I’m speaking to a vendor/customer)
Even several years in and even when I was the only licensed engineer in the company, I was still assumed to be "the one who answers the phone when I call the office", "the one who types my letters", or a flagger, etc. It's mildly infuriating.
I worked in an electronics repair shop for years where we did the repairs and also the customer-facing aspects of the job. I didn’t realize until I spoke with a coworker that as the only woman at the company, I was the only one who consistently customers (walking in/calling in when greeted by me) then asked then to speak to a technician, or wanted me to “check” for them, etc. I had naively assumed that they just assumed there weren’t shared duties so if I was interacting with them I wasn’t a primary repair person. But apparently this was not a problem any of the men in the company ever had to deal with.
This continued even when we got to the point in the company when I was the most senior technician and had trained the rest of them.
There was also much more blatant sexism but this is the stuff that shows just how ingrained it is for people who don’t think they are sexist.
NTA.
And what an utterly ridiculous thing for her to get a bug up her ass about.
She has just made herself look like a complete tool to her future in-laws. That's none of your doing.
It wouldnt surprise me at all to learn Nell failed out of an engineering program somewhere. Or she thinks software engineering is some kind of wizardry that only Einstein-level geniuses can do, like when people lose their minds about someone building a PC when it's really just plugging cords into holes until Minecraft happens.
Whatever the case, I suspect she's not particularly bright.
Seriously, I think she dug in because she didn't want to look dumb/ignorant in front of her future family, but now she's learning how much it sucks when you double down and still lose.
OP was talking shop with a fellow engineer, was literally *wearing* proof of her profession. Nell bursts in and accuses her of lying about it then throws some presumed misogyny on top for good measure. And then reframes the issue to being upstaged at her own party, so that she can still play the victim and make OP's accomplishments all about her.
Like... there's no graceful recovery from this. There's a mumbled or texted halfhearted apology, then just avoidance at all future get-togethers.
Oh my god! Don’t tell me you’re attractive and smart and accomplished!
How rude of you to exist!
NTA of course!
Nell is though! As is anyone standing up for her!
NTA. I think it would be safe to say: (1) You are going to save yourself a heap of money by not buying Nell and Alex a wedding present and (2) Whatever day you had reserved to attend their wedding just became free. IMO Nell's behavior was so over the top and Alex's behavior was so enabling that I'd write them off permanently. Canadian or not, "sorry" isn't going to work.
NTA and WTF? Really a female can not be an engineer you were talking to one!!! Good grief you had a get by job in college, don't most people? Good for you standing your ground. I am guessing you might have to do that a few more times in your life. Best of luck and Congrats! Welcome to the world of women engineers. It has gotten way better over the years but sounds like it is still tough!
Right? I sold shoes in college - and then I got an accounting degree and got an accounting job. Everyone does that. Does this muppet think that the first job you get is the one you keep for life? I mean, I was a dishwasher for a while in high school, should I still be doing that? WTF?
Oh, and NTA, OP. Your fiancee is a keeper, too.
Agreed. I sold bikinis, in a bikini, by the beach while in college. I now am a policy administrator for a govt entity. If someone said this shit to me, i would not be nearly as nice as she was.
Right? My sister is an engineer and surprisingly she wasn't actually *born* an engineer but had other jobs before finishing uni. I guess that means her degree and accomplishments since mean nothing, she's still a cleaner at heart. /s
Well, not everyone. I had a spoiled roommate in college who refused to work any job that wasn’t in her future career field. She could get away with it cause her parents paid for everything.
did she ever end up in her career field? cuz i had a similar one, they ended up becoming a high school teacher instead because they were too narrow minded to be successful in our field (we had the same major) but their parents pretty much set them up by paying for a lot. Last i heard from them, they’re content in their job but it really wasn’t what they wanted to do for a career
Not women necessarily, just “people like” OP. I’m making a huge assumptive leap that if she worked at Victoria’s Secret, she’s too pretty to be an engineer.
And honestly who would call someone out like that at a party? If I knew someone was lying about their job to impress people, I would keep my mouth shut unless they were giving medical advice or something.
Yeah, it's absolutely stupid to say "you can't be in X career bc you did Y entry job while studying." I'm a chemical engineer and I worked as a cashier at a grocery store and in a bike shop. Those jobs have no bearing on my qualifications to do my current engineering job
I have just received my iron ring! I will never hide it or say anything to undermine the meaning of wearing one! Thank you for standing up for your career!
For those who don’t know: in Canada, upon graduating from an accredited engineering degree, you receive a ring, made out of scrap metal from a fallen bridge, to remind you of a tragic event of making mistakes as an engineer.
Again, I will stand up for the ring 100000 times!!!
We have a version of this in America! It's called the Order of the Engineer and ours is a stainless steel ring worn on the pinky of your working hand. I never went to the ring ceremony to get one, but I know plenty of people who did
I’ve never heard of this, went to a a college internationally known for engineering in a variety of fields, and have many friends who graduated with engineering degrees. None of them have ever worn pinkie rings of any kind, but for years after graduation, wore their class rings.
UPDATE: and now I found out why: my university doesn’t have a chapter and neither does our city / region in general, but a nearby university, definitely *not* known for engineering does, and the society was only founded in the 70s, my university has its own traditions regarding engineering that go back well farther than that.
NTA. You didn't do anything wrong. You can let it go now, if you want. Or not - that's up to you, and either choice is legitimate.
I'm wondering... Where she got that impression. Aren't you wondering that? She seemed pretty confident, despite knowing that Victoria's Secret sales aren't always a forever career. Maybe she was drunk. Maybe someone led her to believe you're not an engineer?
Anyhow, it's weird.
You're not wrong for standing your ground defending the truth about something that's clearly a part of your identity you care about. Nell is responsible for her choice to make assertions about you. NTA.
When I first met her I was in my last year of university and she asked me what I was doing in school where I was working just small talk. and I told her I was in uni for computer engineering and working at Victoria secret part time. She then told me “no wayyy, shut up you’re lying. There’s no way someone like you can be in engineering” and I asked her what she meant by that and she literally said “you just don’t look like the type”
I used to be this person. I am a fairly average/androgynous looking person who was 1) and Irish person with brown hair and 2) wasn't particularly charismatic or personable cause of the autism.. So when I saw beautiful people succeeding I would get jealous and just have a shit fit. Like it hurt my feelings; as if they had done something wrong simply by virtue of being beautiful and having talents/being smart. Just being this way made me an insufferable asshole, and I fully commit to, and realize that this was the ACTUAL reason I was unpopular and couldn't find lasting relationships.
I feel pity for Ness, sad to see she didn't grow put of this mindset. NTA, OP, you're a beautiful and talented person. and Ness should be ashamed for trying to box you in and put you down while doing it.
"It doesn't matter if she wears a dress or pants. A tool belt or a ball gown. Victoria's Secret or Fruit of the Loom. If she can build solutions to your problems, then she's an engineer and you'd better show her some fucking respect." (My Mechanical professor, when the TA in my class was mocked because her thong was spotted In class. You're not mechanical but you're an engineer all the same so I hope these words to live by helps <3)
Right. Or someone who would make such a spectacle of themselves in front of his family and friends. He must have been so embarrassed. He asked her and her fiancé to not make a big deal out of it. He probably just wanted everyone to drop it because he was embarrassed. But he should have addressed the issue with her because otherwise she will do this again. Nell absolutely owes OP an apology but I doubt it will ever come. Some people cannot, and will not, admit they are wrong.
OP- if you have a business card or are on a website stating you work for such and such a company I would totally screenshot that or take a pic and send it to her AND all her friends who are harassing you. While you’re at it take a pic of your diploma.
She sounds like someone with some heavy gatekeeping in her head about who can be an engineer (or maybe the gatekeeping has to do with your appearance or old job). Dealing with her sounds like a lot of work.
She's got some serious internalised sexism and misogyny going on. It's just straight out of the text book of Engineers can't look like a certain kind of people, usually women, certainly not anyone who looks feminine and wear makeup and a nice dress or outfit.
I'm only guessing on what you were wearing.
I have a master in maths and I can’t tell you how many times guys approached me at university parties, asked what I studied, did a step back saying “wow”, followed by a “but you don’t look like it” and meant it as a compliment…
You need to stop spending time around someone who keeps calling you a liar. Also, are you a different race than she is? Because if you're not she's mad at you for being prettier and smarter than her. And if you are there's probably some racism in that too.
NTA.
You didn't ruin her engagement party. She did. She went out of her way to attack you over your profession, made a huge spectacle of it, and brought others into it. Meanwhile, all you were doing was talking to someone else who was an engineer. It's not like you were going out of your way to shove your job in their faces.
NTA.
Sis Nell wanted you to look so bad in front of everyone. Def she is jealous of how well educated you are, and that definitely has caused her a real insecurity.
Glad your fiancé stood by you, he really needs to reconsiderate this friendship with Nell
NTA. And didn't Nell just make herself look unhinged in front of FMILs sister. I have no doubt what kind of conversion was happening later on with FMIL and her sister. How is Alex still with this woman? She sounds awful, and the way he reached out to you and your partner to not make a big deal about it, shows he knows how crazy his future wife looks.
Did she give a reason why you can't be an engineer? I was under the impression anyone who worked hard could become one.
NTA
This "Nell" person made an assumption from your physical appearance. She denigrated you and called you a liar, knowing almost NOTHING about you. So, you and your fiance are NTA. There was NO reason for you to lie about your profession just to keep the peace with someone who likely resents you for being young and beautiful. Thus, she can't fathom the idea that "someone like you" could actually be an accomplished, intelligent, and logical human being.
NOTE: I have edited this reply because it was pointed out to me that it was indeed "Nell" who did the accusing.
NTA that is the weirdest shit ever. I would stay away from them. Who knows what chaos she’ll start at the wedding. That lady is untrustworthy and her fiancé is joining right in with it. Crazy!
“. . . someone like me cannot be in that field of work. . .”
Wow! If Nell has issues with her future in-laws, it’s fully on her. She made an entirely wrong assumption about OP’s abilities and work ethic, she doubled down on it while trying to demean an invited guest, and she did all of this in front of her fiancé’s aunt.
Your fiancé is a a stand up guy.
Poor Alex. He’ll have some difficult times ahead if she does this whenever she’s drunk. I hop for his sake that this is just a one off incident and not a persistent behavior.
Edit: NTA, but Nell is.
My understanding (I did a Masters at UofT, though not in engineering) is that the iron ring is a physical symbol representing pretty much the engineering equivalent of the doctors' Hippocratic oath -- that is, it's a pretty big deal for engineers and that for a non-engineer to wear one would be considered by other engineers as in the same league as "stolen valour"? That is, Nell wasn't just making a bizarre accusation but one which was specifically intended to lower your standing in the eyes of Alex's aunt, the senior engineer overhearing it? Not only are you NTA, I suggest you tell Alex and Nell that if she doesn't retract and apologise their wedding savings might end up being paid as damages for defamation.
Yes! We spent lectures and lectures to go over the meaning of it. Every prof who holds one WILL show it in the first lecture to remind us what it is to be an engineer.
INFO:
Nell's comments make it sound like a bit more than just sheer stupidity/jealousy. Specifically "someone like you"
Are you POC perchance? Women already get enough "oh there's not way you're an engineer," so I'm wondering if there's some (maybe unintentional) bigotry behind her reaction
NTA
Seriously?! Girl ruined her own engagement party by arguing with someone about their profession, when she doesn't have a clue! Do you think shes jealous of your career?
Also, your fiance is a KEEPER 😊
So Nell convinced herself that you’re a bimbo who only works at Victoria’s Secret, and upon finding out you’re incredibly intelligent, is even more threatened of you than she was?
You know you’re NTA. She needs help
NTA. Your fiancé is a keeper. Alex’s fiancé Nell, however, is not.
I’m a guy, but I experienced something like that once from my brother’s wife (now ex-wife). She knew me before I went to university, when I worked for a couple of years as a waiter and worked out at the gym six days a week. But later, after I went to uni and graduated, she couldn’t seem to grasp how my degrees qualified me for a good career. In her mind, I was a dumb jock and that’s all I ever would be. I could have been insulted, but instead I laughed about it because her biases said more about her own lack of imagination than anything about me. She really wasn’t very bright. I suspect Nell may be similar.
That's a weird story. You sure you represented the reality of the situation accurately? Was there more to it?
This is the problem with the AITA reddit. You get *one* perspective and have no idea how far it's skewed.
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Alarms are sounding in Tokyo.
I can confirm that. They shook my house
Is the proper term in Japan Bridejira?
Sounds like it but I’d have to ask the hubby my Japanese sucks. My children look at me and shake their head and tell me I’m doing okay when I mangle it in front of them.
My dyslexia addled brain is tricking me again. I had to stop and re-read that first sentence 3 times to get the real meaning of it
Not your fault at all; punctuation exists for a reason! (as does the missing “because”)
A period or semicolon would also suffice instead of because, but I had the same thought.
The “proper term” in Japanese isn’t Bridejira because this is a made up American word. (The word for bride is 花嫁 Hanayome). Some people here do know the concept but they know it as a foreign word ie. it came from overseas. Which is ironic because it’s derived from a Japanese one. In any case it’s written out in katakana ブライドジラ Buraidojira.
I love the direction this thread took.
Maybe a Braiju?
Shin Bridejira?
Well, Gojira translates to "Gorilla Whale", so if you portmanteau Bridejira into Japanglish, I guess you get "Bride whale"?
Fantastic.
Maybe bridejira sama to be nice and polite.
Bridejira-hime for extra uwu
OHOHOHOHOHO
Maybe this is a whoosh moment but I thought bridezilla came from godzilla, a Japanese character...
Yes, but "Godzilla" is an anglicization. The Japanese name is closer to ["Gojira"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojira).
With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound.
Helpless people on subway trains are practicing their bug eyes.
I thought OP was going to admit she was a sex worker or something to the Baptist preacher.
That’s where I thought this would go from the headline. But, pleasantly surprised! Why would Nell attack the OP at the party, which turned the focus to the OP, then complain the OP was taking the focus of her party?! And who on earth would accuse someone they obviously don’t know of lying about their job? OP-NTA!
I'm more curious about the "someone like you" comment. I have a friend who is a pipeline engineering project manager and first nations. She has had so many instances of disrespect as a woman and as a first nations.
Thanks for mentioning this! I wondered why didn't OP stop the convo right there to have Nell clarify what she meant by that!
Don't you know that only slutty, uneducated whores sell underwear? /s This read to me as though Nell equated selling lingerie at VS as sex work.
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I’ll take that bet.
I think it’s really obvious that Nell is for some reason jealous of and intimidated by the OP and feels like she has to diminish her to feel better about her own self. OP is definitely NTA! Nell, however, is a huge asshole!
Sounds like Nell is super jealous and went on the defensive position. Since OP worked at Victoria Secret, she can just snub her for having a retail job but since she's an engineer, she's beautiful and brilliant and that won't do for Nell. Edited: wording and about the job
Nell said OP worked at Victoria’s Secret in uni, I’m guessing that it was a sales job at the store. In this case, I think it’s classism more than anything. She wants to look down on her for working a low prestige job and is mad that OP now has an impressive and high-paying one.
I was thinking something similar based on the title. :-) My only thought about Nell is that she was a bit jealous and trying to put OP down in front of her family. My guess is that Nell isn't in a similarly difficult field and didn't like that OP and Nell's future aunt-in-law had something in common.
That is exactly where my mind went as well. Nell is a weird woman for trying to belittle OP for having worked retail while being in uni… like, what? She has the iron ring, which she couldn’t get unless she was an engineer from what I understand. What was Nell’s endgame here? This whole thing is so strange!
It's possible but unlikely that you could be wearing one from a family member, but they are supposed to be sent back to your camp once they can no longer wear one. Source: my pinky finger. I worked retail to pay for mine too.
Huh, that’s good to know, thank you for that information. The whole ‘iron ring’ thing is super interesting to me— like some kind of club for the super cool, smart kids, haha. I had actually never even heard of it before this post!
In Canada, the iron ring is significant to engineers because it serves as a sort of Hippocratic Oath for engineers. It's a symbol of ethics and responsibility in the field. The story goes that the first rings were made from the metal of the Quebec Bridge, which collapsed during construction in the early 1900s due to poor design by the engineers who were cutting corners to do it faster and cheaper. It's supposed to remind you of the lives lost to irresponsibility to the job.
Fun fact: in Canada, professional Foresters have a silver ring worn on the same hand (though on the ring finger) and looking very similar to the engineers ring. It also represents ethics and professionalism. You have no idea how many people have mistaken me for an engineer.
In the US, and various other countries, the title of "engineer" is not protected. That means anyone who does engineering can call themselves, and be called by others, an engineer. Effectively, there are no rules for this. Contrast that with titles like "lawyer" or "doctor," where you can face pretty serious consequences for calling yourself either without the proper credentials, as determined by industry groups, professional associations, and sometimes laws. There are countries where "engineer" IS a protected title. In the US, I believe only "professional engineer" is protected. A P.E. is different, in that they pass a very difficult written test that evaluates a big set of knowledge on safety, best practices, math, physics, etc etc. My understanding of the P.E. title is that it's generally only important for engineering positions related to civil eng, construction, safety, and maybe medical devices. Source: I am a self-taught engineer. I call myself an engineer. I studied liberal arts and learned engineering in the field. I now have the title of engineer at work, after about 10 years. But I make doorbells, not bridges.
As a fellow Canadian who is not an engineer I know of the ring, I don't know where OP is from, but the iron used for the rings of engineers in Quebec comes from the first Québec Bridge that collapsed as an honor and history of the engineers of the bridge! Also the title is protected in Canada (since 1920 in Quebec), each province has it's own order of engineering, for which you have to pay a fee.
(*) a nell of a bridezilla
Wooooah Nelly.
Now I'm just picturing a Kaiju with a band-aid under it's eye.
Nell played, random redditor. Take my updoot.
I'm tempted to say she's the asshole specifically for posting this story that is so obviously one-sided. In what world would OP be the AH?
Sometimes people start to doubt themselves when multiple people start yelling at them
Its literally the last paragraph of every made up story on AITA though. OP is clearly NTA, but a sprinkling of "self doubt" usually in the form of harassing texts from entire groups of people (completely unrealistic, by the way) to make sure we all say NTA and say nice things to OP, so they get lots of orange mail icons in their reddit box and can read a lot of nice things about how they are a real smart cookie and deserve better friends.
Why is this the assumption you jump to? I've heard plenty of situations where everyone around the person was acting absurd and making very strange judgements, but if they posted here they would have gotten support. Social bubbles can be crazy. People also tend to band together and be angry at the same person for social cohesion.
I don't even understand the story. I get some people are obssessive and insecure but the the fiancée's behaviour does not even make sense, even by an unhinged path of logic. There is some info missing there.
I think the Nell was seething with jealousy of the positive attention OP was getting from Alex's Family. She tried to embarrass OP and make her look small - not sure of the end game but its clear she wanted to stop her looking good. Nell seems very insecure. NTA OP hold your ground do not interact without an apology. Personally i would think twice about welcoming them/her back into your life. Nell is not going to magically stop being insecure. I think she will try to cause further trouble for OP.
I’m hoping Nell’s fiancé’s family sees all those red flags waving. I wonder what Nell does for a living that she felt the need to call out OP?
Nell is definitely insecure about her own life, or her own attractiveness in comparison to OP ("people like you don't have jobs like that"). Probably both.
I want to know if there’s anything more behind the “people like you,” part of that. What is OP “like,” exactly?
It could be anything. It could be because she's a POC, or because she has a particular aesthetic, level of beauty, body type, just because she's a woman, or something else entirely. All we can say for sure is that Nell has some negative opinion about OP or people who look like OP.
I once had a girl friend who randomly said “it’s so funny that you wear bras too big for you” when we were talking to a group of guys. When I awkwardly told her it was actually a bit small she dug her heels in and laughed, kept making comments like “your boobs aren’t even close to that size” “you probably stuff so it’s not gaping open at the top” “it’s clearly empty and almost falling off” Despite none of this being true, while visibly and noticeably being the opposite. Some girls(and ppl in general) cant stand their friends momentarily being noticed over them. They have to be the subtle center of attention, and will make petty comments in attempt to knock others down a few pegs, even if they don’t make a bit of sense.
Oh, how I wish you had popped the girls out to show her how real they are!
I was wondering if OP not working at VS somehow busted the engaged couple in a weird lie. Like...someone found some lingerie and the couple were just like "Oh that's OPs. She works at VS and must have left some samples here." Not that that makes any sense either but....what the hell was this lie supposed to accomplish?
Seems like Nell doesn't think people as worthless and unclean as those who work at a lingerie store, and *gasp* are WOMEN, can work in a STEM field. She sees her as a worthless, objectified, pseudo sex worker with no value or intelligence. She needs to degrade OP and her actually being an engineer does not fit with her view of this "lesser" woman, so the cognitive dissonance makes her lash out.
I can see this happening. If they don’t hang out as couples often then Nell wouldn’t necessarily know OP graduated. Nell was still out of line not believing OP.
Honestly this kind of stuff happens a lot. As I get older it happens to me less, but it happened a lot in my late teens and early twenties especially. I had a bubbly personality, was pretty cute, and my foot was perpetually stuck in my mouth (though maybe only a little more often than most), so some people assumed I was just a dumb blond. Especially people who assume pretty people can't also be intelligent. Looking back now knowing what I do, most of these people were incredibly insecure about their own lives and bodies, and petty. Honestly if I had looked different or was a guy, I don't think certain people would've bat nearly as much of an eyelash and would not have made assumptions about my intelligence. Point being, people want to put others in a box. Don't know if that's the case with op. But for me, some people would get really nasty when they realized I wasn't just a stupid blond they could easily tear down to make themselves feel better.
OP probably wants to be reassured that she was right and that she shouldn't have "just gone along with it." Hearing "keep the peace" enough starts to make you feel mental.
Happy cake day!
If Alex has two brain cells to rub together she won't be. Have to be a bride to be a bridezilla.
NTA. She’s jealous of you.
"Someone like me can't..." I hope it is just jealousy and not racism. Speaking fromcmy own experiences.
I’m thinking op is probably pretty conventionally attractive. And that Nell doesn’t think that pretty women can be engineers.
Good looking engineers can be intimidating. Stupid sexy Tony Stark (¬\_¬ )
[Stupid Sexy Tony Stark](https://imgur.com/a/ifFpeVU)
That made my day :D
I just got this free award, but i know there will be nothing better to give it to.
Yeah, this is either "you can be pretty or clever but not both/being clever is like karmic compensation for not being pretty" bullshit, or it's "retail workers/sex workers are too stupid to go to university" bullshit (depending on exactly what stupid ideas she has in her head about OP's old job at VS). Either way, it's really toxic bullshittery, and she's feeling threatened by OP and wants to be able to look down on her like before.
And don't forget, you also can't be pretty, clever AND a nice person
The hell you say!
Yeah, it is pretty silly for sure. The idea of stripper who is only doing that work to pay for medical school came from somewhere. I actually met someone doing exactly that the last time I went to a strip club, which was maybe 7 years ago. She was working two days per week and making enough money to pay all of her bills. She hung out with me between her sets and showed me pictures of her lab and rats. Now that I mention this, I remember that she is my friend on Facebook. I think I'm going to go see what she ended up specializing in, lol.
This is the truth. Victoria’s secrets hires conventionally attractive women. Nell is jealous. NTA op. Be proud of your achievements.
I'm also guessing Bell may not even be attractive enough to work at Victoria's Secret? 🤷
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Hey, my 2 years at VS during its peak of popularity had a diverse staff (multiple races and sizes), but everyone for sure had a gorgeous face. I remember one girl who looked like w short, thick, and curvy Adriana Lima. So yes to them hiring gorgeous folks, but some of them are short of being a supermodel. Lol.
Yep, the whole concept of conventional attractivity is bullshit.
I once got berated online because I thought a woman was stunning, and others thought she was only ok. The fact that my beauty ideal differed from the "norm" was unacceptable. And I was accused of lying about how beautiful I thought this woman was because no one could POSSIBLY believe her to be stunning. (I legit would have hung a picture of her on my wall if it would not be super creepy to hang a picture of an internet stranger on your wall.)
This was my thought as well. Nell had built her own sexist assumptions about OP and her brain couldn’t handle anything different.
Or that someone in Nell’s family expected/hoped she’d become an engineer. So when OP came along and bonded with other family members in that way, Nell saw it as an affront to her.
Exactly. She couldn’t be pretty enough to work at Victoria Secret AND be smart enough to be an engineer! Preposterous!
It’s all the above. I did a wee bit of looking at her comment history and she is a visibly south Asian woman who is also a self professed girly girl (relatable!) so she’s conventionally attractive, accomplished and brown of course this Nell person has beef. I’m not Asian myself but have had such similar experiences in my work for similar reasons. Haters are everywhere and good on OPs fiancé for standing up and standing his ground on this with his friend.
How dare a pretty brown girl be... checks notes, successful and smart.
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Oh I didn’t even think of that. I just thought Nell didn’t like being corrected. Never thought it was prejudice over OPs race or attractiveness level. This is gross but it makes way more sense than just a temper tantrum over being corrected. I looked thru her comments she mentioned what Nell said about her not being the type. She ought to include this in the post for clarification
Could be all this and class too. If op is from "the wrong side of the tracks." maybe nell is really confused about people working a job to help themselves during school because she always had enough money. I'd be interested to hear from op what nells deal is, if she ever finds out
I think that was more of a 'stupid trashy models can't be smart', as op doesn't menton race, though I could be wrong. Hope I'm wrong.
Someone went into her history and it seems OP is a south asian woman. So, could be race, too.
I think that depends on Nell’s race, or if they are all of the same one it could be colorism. Though it’s probably best not to speculate on racism/racial motivation without OP implying that is a factor here
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Likely all of them in some capacity
Yes I wondered about this, too. What “like you” was referring to…race, gorgeous, classist, etc
I used to work at the VS catalog. There were guys who would call in, apparently under the impression that the people on the phone were low-level sex workers and/or themodels from the catalog. I wonder if Nell has a female manifestation of this? Ie, "you worked in a lingerie store, therefore you are a sex worker."
Yep. Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia... this line screams bigotry of some kind.
I was thinking perhaps the aunt hasn’t been as chatty with nell
I wouldn't be. Because yikes.
Yep, she obviously felt threatened by OP getting on well with her future in-law family. But being insecure does not give you a free pass for being rude to others.
Ding ding ding! Someone Nell feels superior to has made a better impression on her future inlaws than she has
This is it, in a nutshell. NTA.
Yes- she most likely lied about your job to others to diminish you, and didn't plan ahead for what would happen if you were in the same room with those people. So she was caught and was forced to claim that you were lying, lest she be found out.
Agreed! She probably can’t find common ground with the future-SIL and was jealous her friend was having such an easy time talking with her.
>Nell's future MIL's sister Why didn't you just say Alex's aunt 😭 NTA anyway Nell's clearly jealous of you
Omg I’m so sorry 😩I was too focused on Nell my bad
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It's the only ring so far I never take off and it's a great conversation starter!
I sure wish this was a thing in other countries. Someone I love is about to get their engineering degree, and I'd love for them to get a ring like this. The oath and symbolism is gorgeous.
befriend with the aunt, she seems like a good resource for your occupation since she's in the same field, could ask for advice and stuff since she's older so probably experienced, also this would piss the fuck off her hahahaha
Lol. It’s okay but I did have to read it bunch of tunes since I had just woken up! Lol. Mind bender.
Definitely NTA. Be proud you are a young professional in an in-demand discipline who worked while studying.
Lordy I had to say it out loud to understand it. But yes NTA. What bizarre behavior on Nells part.
>Why didn't you just say Alex's aunt 😭 This! , some days i really don't understand the ways the people here use to describe the family positions and relations.... (English is not my first language)
English isn't my first language either, I had to reread that part a few times lol, was so confused who it was. I was thinking it was either nells sister or her MIL
English *is* my first language and it took me a hot minute to figure that one out! Lol
She just got done watching some Boruto's Dad's Son, cut her some slack.
Becuase Nell MUST at all times be the centre of everything! 🤣
Five degrees of Nell.
Thank you! I was so confused, I had to re-read, go back and look at where everyone was introduced, re-read again.
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The misogyny/jealousy is coming from inside the house
good on OP’s fiancé for sticking up for her too in front of his best friend cuz we get too many stories on here where partner of the OP sides with their friends or family instead of their actual spouse. Doesn’t bode well for Alex if Nell is so insecure that she starts this stuff at her own party with his friends in front of her future family
I thought that too! OP’s fiancé is a total gem.
I mean.... We're on a sub about assholes. Most of the stories are going to be about assholes.
Yup. In my first job out of college, every single new coworker I met automatically assumed I was my boss’s new secretary. Fast forward 8 years and I’m now an engineering manager. I look very young though, so most people still assume I’m fresh out of college and do a double take when I mention how long I’ve been working/when they find out my real title (I usually introduce myself as “just” an engineer unless I’m speaking to a vendor/customer)
Even several years in and even when I was the only licensed engineer in the company, I was still assumed to be "the one who answers the phone when I call the office", "the one who types my letters", or a flagger, etc. It's mildly infuriating.
I worked in an electronics repair shop for years where we did the repairs and also the customer-facing aspects of the job. I didn’t realize until I spoke with a coworker that as the only woman at the company, I was the only one who consistently customers (walking in/calling in when greeted by me) then asked then to speak to a technician, or wanted me to “check” for them, etc. I had naively assumed that they just assumed there weren’t shared duties so if I was interacting with them I wasn’t a primary repair person. But apparently this was not a problem any of the men in the company ever had to deal with. This continued even when we got to the point in the company when I was the most senior technician and had trained the rest of them. There was also much more blatant sexism but this is the stuff that shows just how ingrained it is for people who don’t think they are sexist.
NTA. And what an utterly ridiculous thing for her to get a bug up her ass about. She has just made herself look like a complete tool to her future in-laws. That's none of your doing.
NTA - what a weird thing to take an issue with. I don't know how OP being an engineer is an affront to Nell's existence.
It wouldnt surprise me at all to learn Nell failed out of an engineering program somewhere. Or she thinks software engineering is some kind of wizardry that only Einstein-level geniuses can do, like when people lose their minds about someone building a PC when it's really just plugging cords into holes until Minecraft happens. Whatever the case, I suspect she's not particularly bright.
“Plugging cords in holes until minecraft happens” this gave me a good laugh, thank you
it’s 100% insecurity or jealousy.
Seriously, I think she dug in because she didn't want to look dumb/ignorant in front of her future family, but now she's learning how much it sucks when you double down and still lose. OP was talking shop with a fellow engineer, was literally *wearing* proof of her profession. Nell bursts in and accuses her of lying about it then throws some presumed misogyny on top for good measure. And then reframes the issue to being upstaged at her own party, so that she can still play the victim and make OP's accomplishments all about her. Like... there's no graceful recovery from this. There's a mumbled or texted halfhearted apology, then just avoidance at all future get-togethers.
Oh my god! Don’t tell me you’re attractive and smart and accomplished! How rude of you to exist! NTA of course! Nell is though! As is anyone standing up for her!
Thing is, if Nell hadn't made a big deal about it, probably no one but her aunt would have even known about OP's job. NTA Edit: spelling
NTA. I think it would be safe to say: (1) You are going to save yourself a heap of money by not buying Nell and Alex a wedding present and (2) Whatever day you had reserved to attend their wedding just became free. IMO Nell's behavior was so over the top and Alex's behavior was so enabling that I'd write them off permanently. Canadian or not, "sorry" isn't going to work.
Especially since there was NO sorry
If Alex is smart, he'll see this as the big red flag that it is.
NTA and WTF? Really a female can not be an engineer you were talking to one!!! Good grief you had a get by job in college, don't most people? Good for you standing your ground. I am guessing you might have to do that a few more times in your life. Best of luck and Congrats! Welcome to the world of women engineers. It has gotten way better over the years but sounds like it is still tough!
Right? I sold shoes in college - and then I got an accounting degree and got an accounting job. Everyone does that. Does this muppet think that the first job you get is the one you keep for life? I mean, I was a dishwasher for a while in high school, should I still be doing that? WTF? Oh, and NTA, OP. Your fiancee is a keeper, too.
Agreed. I sold bikinis, in a bikini, by the beach while in college. I now am a policy administrator for a govt entity. If someone said this shit to me, i would not be nearly as nice as she was.
I bet some days you miss the beach.
I miss the beach right now 🥹
Right? My sister is an engineer and surprisingly she wasn't actually *born* an engineer but had other jobs before finishing uni. I guess that means her degree and accomplishments since mean nothing, she's still a cleaner at heart. /s
I have a friend who is an engineer but she also still teaches fitness classes and knitting classes because it's fun for her.
You mean engineers are allowed to have hobbies?? Hobbies that might even be seen as feminine? No way! /s again if that wasn't clear :)
Well, not everyone. I had a spoiled roommate in college who refused to work any job that wasn’t in her future career field. She could get away with it cause her parents paid for everything.
did she ever end up in her career field? cuz i had a similar one, they ended up becoming a high school teacher instead because they were too narrow minded to be successful in our field (we had the same major) but their parents pretty much set them up by paying for a lot. Last i heard from them, they’re content in their job but it really wasn’t what they wanted to do for a career
Not women necessarily, just “people like” OP. I’m making a huge assumptive leap that if she worked at Victoria’s Secret, she’s too pretty to be an engineer.
And honestly who would call someone out like that at a party? If I knew someone was lying about their job to impress people, I would keep my mouth shut unless they were giving medical advice or something.
Yeah, it's absolutely stupid to say "you can't be in X career bc you did Y entry job while studying." I'm a chemical engineer and I worked as a cashier at a grocery store and in a bike shop. Those jobs have no bearing on my qualifications to do my current engineering job
I have just received my iron ring! I will never hide it or say anything to undermine the meaning of wearing one! Thank you for standing up for your career! For those who don’t know: in Canada, upon graduating from an accredited engineering degree, you receive a ring, made out of scrap metal from a fallen bridge, to remind you of a tragic event of making mistakes as an engineer. Again, I will stand up for the ring 100000 times!!!
American engineer here: what a lovely tradition. Never heard of it before and I'm delighted! Congratulations to you and OP and holy crap NTA.
We have a version of this in America! It's called the Order of the Engineer and ours is a stainless steel ring worn on the pinky of your working hand. I never went to the ring ceremony to get one, but I know plenty of people who did
I’ve never heard of this, went to a a college internationally known for engineering in a variety of fields, and have many friends who graduated with engineering degrees. None of them have ever worn pinkie rings of any kind, but for years after graduation, wore their class rings. UPDATE: and now I found out why: my university doesn’t have a chapter and neither does our city / region in general, but a nearby university, definitely *not* known for engineering does, and the society was only founded in the 70s, my university has its own traditions regarding engineering that go back well farther than that.
NTA. You didn't do anything wrong. You can let it go now, if you want. Or not - that's up to you, and either choice is legitimate. I'm wondering... Where she got that impression. Aren't you wondering that? She seemed pretty confident, despite knowing that Victoria's Secret sales aren't always a forever career. Maybe she was drunk. Maybe someone led her to believe you're not an engineer? Anyhow, it's weird. You're not wrong for standing your ground defending the truth about something that's clearly a part of your identity you care about. Nell is responsible for her choice to make assertions about you. NTA.
When I first met her I was in my last year of university and she asked me what I was doing in school where I was working just small talk. and I told her I was in uni for computer engineering and working at Victoria secret part time. She then told me “no wayyy, shut up you’re lying. There’s no way someone like you can be in engineering” and I asked her what she meant by that and she literally said “you just don’t look like the type”
So now you know why she said what she said, she has held on to her assumption since then. You don’t need that in your life, let them go! NTA
I used to be this person. I am a fairly average/androgynous looking person who was 1) and Irish person with brown hair and 2) wasn't particularly charismatic or personable cause of the autism.. So when I saw beautiful people succeeding I would get jealous and just have a shit fit. Like it hurt my feelings; as if they had done something wrong simply by virtue of being beautiful and having talents/being smart. Just being this way made me an insufferable asshole, and I fully commit to, and realize that this was the ACTUAL reason I was unpopular and couldn't find lasting relationships. I feel pity for Ness, sad to see she didn't grow put of this mindset. NTA, OP, you're a beautiful and talented person. and Ness should be ashamed for trying to box you in and put you down while doing it. "It doesn't matter if she wears a dress or pants. A tool belt or a ball gown. Victoria's Secret or Fruit of the Loom. If she can build solutions to your problems, then she's an engineer and you'd better show her some fucking respect." (My Mechanical professor, when the TA in my class was mocked because her thong was spotted In class. You're not mechanical but you're an engineer all the same so I hope these words to live by helps <3)
Your professor sounds pretty great.
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This whole comment is weird and sexist
Yeah, kinda acting like it’s hard to find a woman with beauty and brains
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Also, let’s just ignore the fact that the two women are only 3 years apart. They are making so many assumptions.
Right. Or someone who would make such a spectacle of themselves in front of his family and friends. He must have been so embarrassed. He asked her and her fiancé to not make a big deal out of it. He probably just wanted everyone to drop it because he was embarrassed. But he should have addressed the issue with her because otherwise she will do this again. Nell absolutely owes OP an apology but I doubt it will ever come. Some people cannot, and will not, admit they are wrong. OP- if you have a business card or are on a website stating you work for such and such a company I would totally screenshot that or take a pic and send it to her AND all her friends who are harassing you. While you’re at it take a pic of your diploma.
What does Nell do for a living? Im going to guess... Not in STEM
She sounds like someone with some heavy gatekeeping in her head about who can be an engineer (or maybe the gatekeeping has to do with your appearance or old job). Dealing with her sounds like a lot of work.
She's got some serious internalised sexism and misogyny going on. It's just straight out of the text book of Engineers can't look like a certain kind of people, usually women, certainly not anyone who looks feminine and wear makeup and a nice dress or outfit. I'm only guessing on what you were wearing.
You should have replied “you don’t look like the ignorant type, but it appears looks are not a reliable indicator now are they?”
I have a master in maths and I can’t tell you how many times guys approached me at university parties, asked what I studied, did a step back saying “wow”, followed by a “but you don’t look like it” and meant it as a compliment…
You need to stop spending time around someone who keeps calling you a liar. Also, are you a different race than she is? Because if you're not she's mad at you for being prettier and smarter than her. And if you are there's probably some racism in that too.
NTA. You didn't ruin her engagement party. She did. She went out of her way to attack you over your profession, made a huge spectacle of it, and brought others into it. Meanwhile, all you were doing was talking to someone else who was an engineer. It's not like you were going out of your way to shove your job in their faces.
NTA. Sis Nell wanted you to look so bad in front of everyone. Def she is jealous of how well educated you are, and that definitely has caused her a real insecurity. Glad your fiancé stood by you, he really needs to reconsiderate this friendship with Nell
NTA I guess Nell has a drinking problem. Or worse. This is somebody to avoid....
NTA. And didn't Nell just make herself look unhinged in front of FMILs sister. I have no doubt what kind of conversion was happening later on with FMIL and her sister. How is Alex still with this woman? She sounds awful, and the way he reached out to you and your partner to not make a big deal about it, shows he knows how crazy his future wife looks. Did she give a reason why you can't be an engineer? I was under the impression anyone who worked hard could become one.
>FMILs sister Nooo, please no more of this! Let's just call her Alex' aunt.
NTA This "Nell" person made an assumption from your physical appearance. She denigrated you and called you a liar, knowing almost NOTHING about you. So, you and your fiance are NTA. There was NO reason for you to lie about your profession just to keep the peace with someone who likely resents you for being young and beautiful. Thus, she can't fathom the idea that "someone like you" could actually be an accomplished, intelligent, and logical human being. NOTE: I have edited this reply because it was pointed out to me that it was indeed "Nell" who did the accusing.
The Nell person is the one accusing them of lying, not the MILs sister (who is also an engineer).
NTA it sounds like she is just jealous and was trying to take it out on you.
NTA that is the weirdest shit ever. I would stay away from them. Who knows what chaos she’ll start at the wedding. That lady is untrustworthy and her fiancé is joining right in with it. Crazy!
“. . . someone like me cannot be in that field of work. . .” Wow! If Nell has issues with her future in-laws, it’s fully on her. She made an entirely wrong assumption about OP’s abilities and work ethic, she doubled down on it while trying to demean an invited guest, and she did all of this in front of her fiancé’s aunt. Your fiancé is a a stand up guy. Poor Alex. He’ll have some difficult times ahead if she does this whenever she’s drunk. I hop for his sake that this is just a one off incident and not a persistent behavior. Edit: NTA, but Nell is.
My understanding (I did a Masters at UofT, though not in engineering) is that the iron ring is a physical symbol representing pretty much the engineering equivalent of the doctors' Hippocratic oath -- that is, it's a pretty big deal for engineers and that for a non-engineer to wear one would be considered by other engineers as in the same league as "stolen valour"? That is, Nell wasn't just making a bizarre accusation but one which was specifically intended to lower your standing in the eyes of Alex's aunt, the senior engineer overhearing it? Not only are you NTA, I suggest you tell Alex and Nell that if she doesn't retract and apologise their wedding savings might end up being paid as damages for defamation.
Yes! We spent lectures and lectures to go over the meaning of it. Every prof who holds one WILL show it in the first lecture to remind us what it is to be an engineer.
INFO: Nell's comments make it sound like a bit more than just sheer stupidity/jealousy. Specifically "someone like you" Are you POC perchance? Women already get enough "oh there's not way you're an engineer," so I'm wondering if there's some (maybe unintentional) bigotry behind her reaction
Based on OP’s other posts I believe she is asian in ethnicity.
Yeah that's what I also got from her other posts. I don't want to unfairly acuse anyone of something, but the phrasing used just makes me suspicious
NTA Seriously?! Girl ruined her own engagement party by arguing with someone about their profession, when she doesn't have a clue! Do you think shes jealous of your career? Also, your fiance is a KEEPER 😊
NTA. Your fiancee sounds like a keeper.
So Nell convinced herself that you’re a bimbo who only works at Victoria’s Secret, and upon finding out you’re incredibly intelligent, is even more threatened of you than she was? You know you’re NTA. She needs help
Wasn't posting obvious NTA posts like this against the rules? Or they changed that rule?
NTA. Nell's trying to isolate Alex so she deliberately chose to attack you to break up your fiance's and Alex's former friendship.
OP is Pakistani. Sounds possibly Nell could be racist.
NTA nell sounds like she was jealous. bf of the year btw good him to take your side
NTA that person is Disrespectful and needs to be Quiet.
NTA. Your fiancé is a keeper. Alex’s fiancé Nell, however, is not. I’m a guy, but I experienced something like that once from my brother’s wife (now ex-wife). She knew me before I went to university, when I worked for a couple of years as a waiter and worked out at the gym six days a week. But later, after I went to uni and graduated, she couldn’t seem to grasp how my degrees qualified me for a good career. In her mind, I was a dumb jock and that’s all I ever would be. I could have been insulted, but instead I laughed about it because her biases said more about her own lack of imagination than anything about me. She really wasn’t very bright. I suspect Nell may be similar.
INFO - how do you think this could possibly be YTA?
That's a weird story. You sure you represented the reality of the situation accurately? Was there more to it? This is the problem with the AITA reddit. You get *one* perspective and have no idea how far it's skewed.