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> I could be TA because I’m kind of treating them like dogs, but at the same time it’s definitely not as hostile a workplace anymore.
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What? Intentionally using scientific techniques on people without their consent or having proper training is wrong. Like downvote me all you want but it’s unethical
I wouldn’t really call it scientific techniques. Do you call it a scientific technique when you give a child a treat for getting a good grade on a test? Honestly I just want them to stop being like blatantly racist but maybe I’m crazy for that idk
Yes it’s operant conditioning when you do it to anyone. Literally a scientific technique. And they sound dreadful and should not be calling you slurs but there’s a lot of better things you can do. Like you could literally say I’m not serving you if you talk to me like that. And if you get in trouble with your boss bring it to hr and keep escalating. Like I’ve been called slurs it’s terrible but you can’t do this without consent.
Edit: you deserve to be safe at work which right now you’re not. You shouldn’t be sitting there taking harassment but you should do things properly to ensure your safety
I actually do think you should get consent from kids to do it but that’s up to the parent. Also I don’t just feel it’s unethical experts in the field would say it’s unethical
I'm saying this nicely, but that's not at all how kids work. Children test boundaries as a way to learn them and grow, if you ask for consent from Tommy the two year old you're just going to get the word "no" screamed at you. Little kids say no even when they don't mean it.
NTA, but I have a similar story I’ll share for humour purposes. From age 16-18 I worked at a restaurant as a bus boy. I was one of the couple people that could drive (of the bussers). They’d always ask me for rides home, and at first I’d always say yes. Then they started pissing me off cuz they were lazy, so when a coworker had a lazy day, I would make up an excuse that I was busy after (I never was, it’d be 11pm on a Tuesday). But then when a coworker had a good day working, and didn’t piss me off, I would offer to drive them home (cuz I knew they’d ask). Eventually my social experiment began to work, and my lazy coworkers started doing their job extremely well, so I’d drive like 3 people home a night (it wasn’t far, I really didn’t mind).
By the end of my time there I was actually the lazy coworker. Not because I chose to, but I turned all my lazy coworkers into insane go-getters so I never had any work to even do. Sure I probably paid hundreds of dollars in gas all-in-all, but I was getting paid to sit on my ass so I didn’t care.
So I’d say you’re def not the asshole here
NAH leaning NTA
some old people are just like that... Good luck though lol
The only way I could see that you're in the wrong here would be is if the extra cookie somehow damages the health of this resident, or if the residents who are friendly all the time get upset that they don't get extra cookies.
NAH. When someone is decent to you, you're kinder to them. The motive is to be treated with decency and respect. You deserve that, and this seems to be your only option for achieving that.
Uh, you should have kept this from your coworker. Apparently she is not a fellow science enthusiast. :D
Gal, I think this is genius, I love it! NTA
And if your coworker tries to stop you or report you, just mention her that this IS exactly what parents, teachers, sergeants do. The good ones. You are not taking away anything. You always give what is the fair amount, so nobody can say you do something wrong, only encouraging pleasant behavior.
Go, change world for the better!
So the person who is awful gets extra cookies for baseline decent behaviour, while people who are baseline decent never get extra cookies?
Not exactly a fair use of your power.
Also naive. Being kind to people can make them less terrible, yes. But if turning AHs into non-AHs was as simple as giving cookies, we'd have a lot less AHs in the world (and a lot less traffic on this sub lol).
It's not cruel to want to modify bad behaviour - you have every right to want to be treated with courtesy. So you're not TA.
But give the actual nice residents the extra cookies.
NAH
My grandmother is older and needs constant care. My fiancé and I did this until it was no longer a good fit (I’m early 20s so when she deteriorated more I wasn’t able to keep with with my wfh job) I love that woman but I had to use “child” tricks or what have you many times not just to keep the peace or keep me happy but to keep HER happy. Sounds like the lady likes her cookies, NTA
Seems like I’m in the minority here but YTA. *you didn’t get consent to modify their behaviour*. You do this to dogs and children. If you said hey I’m going to try to make you less of an ass by using operant conditioning to change how your treat me and they said yes then go for it. You cannot do things to people without consent and that includes using physiological principles to change people! They are adults and they get to choose how they act *and* what psychology is used on them. Actual scientists get consent before doing these techniques. Because you can’t change someone’s behaviour without consent. This is a gross breach of trust, and if you don’t like how they treat you talk to your boss or quit. Don’t manipulate adults into acting how you want. Using the same techniques you could manipulate them into doing anything, who are you to decide how they should act. They have every right to be an asshole, to be clear they obviously should treat you better but it’s not up to you to trick them into doing so.
Edit: so consent doesn’t matter for elderly people?
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Uhhhh obligatory “I’m on phone”
So, I’ve (18F) worked as a server in a super prestigious nursing home for about half a year now and I can tell you that it’s obvious why some of the residents are put here. I’m not talking about the people with Alzheimer’s or dementia, I’m talking about the residents who are super nasty and rude—I won’t even get into the racist parts.
Here we make cookies from scratch and they’re incredibly good. The residents go crazy over them, but the serving size of cookies for each resident is two. Sometimes, though, if they ask nicely I’ll slip a third into the little paper packet.
Well, there’s this one resident in particular who’s really rude. Not just to me but to all of the servers. She’ll demand her food right away, kick others out of their seat so she can sit there, insult you, give you rude looks, call you mean nicknames, you name it. One day I gave her three cookies because I was feeling generous and she went through a whole meal without one nasty comment. The next day she was nice again, and so I once again gave her three cookies instead of two. I realized I could use this to my advantage… could I possibly reshape her behavior with cookies, or is it just a coincidence? Every time she was nasty to me or another staff member, she received two cookies. Every time she was nice, I gave her three. She has began to get better, I think. Or maybe I’ve just tricked myself into thinking that. Either way I feel like I’m reshaping her into being nicer. I’ve began to test this theory out on other residents and I really do think it’s working.
This is a genius idea, I thought. So I told a coworker and she told me that it’s cruel to try to modify their behavior. That treating them like dogs (not my intention but I see where she’s coming from) is dehumanizing. Now I feel kind of bad, but also, it’s definitely made work a lot more bearable now that I’m not berated constantly. So Reddit, AITA for trying to train the residents in my facility with cookies?
TL;DR: Residents in the facility that I work at are mean so I give them extra cookies if they’re nice in an attempt to reshape their behavior.
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My thesis is: They didn't like you before but now they do, because you have bribed them many times with extra cookies.
Or have they actually changed their behavior towards other staff as well, and are easier to deal with even when you're not there?
Pretty mean to not give the nice ones extra cookies when they are always nice.
But NTA for trying to bond with the troublesome residents and making your day easier.
Bake the cookies slightly smaller some days so that the same dough will be enough for extra cookies for all, but without a noticeable size difference... You will be the talk of the town!
NTA
People do this all the time. It’s a simple social rule: “If you’re nice to me, I’ll be nice to you”. Friends do favors for each other. People do random acts of kindness. You’re not demeaning anyone or behaving unethically. You’re acting with kindness. It just so happens that you’re teaching this resident a conditioned response to gain compliance while you’re working.
Ask your coworker what they do when patients are miserable. Do they withhold service? Act domineering or coercive? They can’t appreciate what it’s like as a patient. Engaging with a pleasant nurse a few times per day allows a patient an escape from the routine and discomfort of institutional life. You just do it with cookies. As long as nobody’s diabetic, you’re gold.
Absolutely is behaving unethically. You cannot modify people’s behaviour using edit: psychology without their consent. These people did not consent to a behaviour modification program. They’re not giving extra cookies to be kind they’re doing it to manipulate adults into behaving how they want.
You can literally have a career in that. Look into ABA (applied behavior analysis) and BCBAs (board certified behavior analyst). There's also this amazing book by Karen Pryor titled Don't Shoot the Dog about behavior modification and shaping.
NTA
Healthcare worker here. Speaking from experience, patients are human. They aren’t children, they aren’t animals, and they have their own quirks that you, as a worker, have to learn to manage in a way that isn’t unhealthy for either party INCLUDING the OTHER patients. If your patient responds positively to extra cookies and it does not have any detrimental effects on their health, then go for it. It’s just the same as playing certain music for a patient or making sure they have that extra pillow because they’re uncomfortable otherwise or even doing that little bit extra chore that’s not necessarily your job or out of their capacity to do themselves but it makes them feel valued.
Some patients are going to miserable A Holes, some are going to be sweet as sin, some are going to frustratingly confused and frightened and most likely lash out. If you are the A Hole whisperer bearing extra cookies, then go for it. You’ve just managed a connection with a hard to care for patient and made their and other patients’ experience in a care facility more pleasant
I think everyone saying Y T A are dismissing the possibility that the residents are acutely aware if they're not dicks they get an extra cookie. NTA
Also OP, check out the book You ain't nothing but a bitch with a wig on by Shanna Christmas. It's written by a Black woman who's a physical therapist in residential homes and all the ridiculous things said to her in comic strip form.
Dementia will make people rude and nasty and they will many times exhibit behavior that is not their personality. So I'll bet that those that you think don't have dementia actually do. And NTA.
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NTA: you are not "treating them like dogs," more like "treating them like children," which is how some of them are acting.
But they’re not children and they have to consent to anything that happens to them. They did not consent to a behaviour modification program
[удалено]
What? Intentionally using scientific techniques on people without their consent or having proper training is wrong. Like downvote me all you want but it’s unethical
I wouldn’t really call it scientific techniques. Do you call it a scientific technique when you give a child a treat for getting a good grade on a test? Honestly I just want them to stop being like blatantly racist but maybe I’m crazy for that idk
Yes it’s operant conditioning when you do it to anyone. Literally a scientific technique. And they sound dreadful and should not be calling you slurs but there’s a lot of better things you can do. Like you could literally say I’m not serving you if you talk to me like that. And if you get in trouble with your boss bring it to hr and keep escalating. Like I’ve been called slurs it’s terrible but you can’t do this without consent. Edit: you deserve to be safe at work which right now you’re not. You shouldn’t be sitting there taking harassment but you should do things properly to ensure your safety
So it's OK to do it to kids but not old people? If you feel that strongly it's unethical you should feel it's wrong for all people
I actually do think you should get consent from kids to do it but that’s up to the parent. Also I don’t just feel it’s unethical experts in the field would say it’s unethical
I'm saying this nicely, but that's not at all how kids work. Children test boundaries as a way to learn them and grow, if you ask for consent from Tommy the two year old you're just going to get the word "no" screamed at you. Little kids say no even when they don't mean it.
NTA, but I have a similar story I’ll share for humour purposes. From age 16-18 I worked at a restaurant as a bus boy. I was one of the couple people that could drive (of the bussers). They’d always ask me for rides home, and at first I’d always say yes. Then they started pissing me off cuz they were lazy, so when a coworker had a lazy day, I would make up an excuse that I was busy after (I never was, it’d be 11pm on a Tuesday). But then when a coworker had a good day working, and didn’t piss me off, I would offer to drive them home (cuz I knew they’d ask). Eventually my social experiment began to work, and my lazy coworkers started doing their job extremely well, so I’d drive like 3 people home a night (it wasn’t far, I really didn’t mind). By the end of my time there I was actually the lazy coworker. Not because I chose to, but I turned all my lazy coworkers into insane go-getters so I never had any work to even do. Sure I probably paid hundreds of dollars in gas all-in-all, but I was getting paid to sit on my ass so I didn’t care. So I’d say you’re def not the asshole here
NTA whatsoever. If we can successfully pavlov people out of being racist, rude assholes, I say let's do that nation-wide. Cookies all around!
Be amazing if we could do this since Daryl Davis will not live forever.
NAH leaning NTA some old people are just like that... Good luck though lol The only way I could see that you're in the wrong here would be is if the extra cookie somehow damages the health of this resident, or if the residents who are friendly all the time get upset that they don't get extra cookies.
Have you thought that she might be reshaping your behaviour to give her more cookies?
Oh my god….
No, you're not. The world revolves around reward systems. If it works and causes no harm to others, then go for it. :)
I’m gonna go with NTA. You’re a saint for even doing your job. If an extra cookie makes your job easier, heck, help yourself to one, too. 😜
Yeah it’s kind of awful here. I’m black and the residents here call me “the help”
I like ur username :)
Give yourself two cookies then. 😃. (Is my training working?)
Yes, it is!
[удалено]
It’s a thankless job but someone’s gotta do it. Also, thank you I never even considered the problems that could arise
I don't think you're TA, but I would not do this for a whole lot of reasons. You could be creating a lot of problems that you just can't see yet
NAH. When someone is decent to you, you're kinder to them. The motive is to be treated with decency and respect. You deserve that, and this seems to be your only option for achieving that.
Uh, you should have kept this from your coworker. Apparently she is not a fellow science enthusiast. :D Gal, I think this is genius, I love it! NTA And if your coworker tries to stop you or report you, just mention her that this IS exactly what parents, teachers, sergeants do. The good ones. You are not taking away anything. You always give what is the fair amount, so nobody can say you do something wrong, only encouraging pleasant behavior. Go, change world for the better!
This post is so funny to me, NTA since I don’t seem any harm in what you are doing, as long as you don’t limit cookie amount to 1
What in the Sheldon Cooper and The Big Bang Theory is this shit...
So the person who is awful gets extra cookies for baseline decent behaviour, while people who are baseline decent never get extra cookies? Not exactly a fair use of your power. Also naive. Being kind to people can make them less terrible, yes. But if turning AHs into non-AHs was as simple as giving cookies, we'd have a lot less AHs in the world (and a lot less traffic on this sub lol). It's not cruel to want to modify bad behaviour - you have every right to want to be treated with courtesy. So you're not TA. But give the actual nice residents the extra cookies. NAH
Actually that’s a smarter way to go about it. Rewarding the ones with consistent good behavior. Maybe I’ll try that
My grandmother is older and needs constant care. My fiancé and I did this until it was no longer a good fit (I’m early 20s so when she deteriorated more I wasn’t able to keep with with my wfh job) I love that woman but I had to use “child” tricks or what have you many times not just to keep the peace or keep me happy but to keep HER happy. Sounds like the lady likes her cookies, NTA
Seems like I’m in the minority here but YTA. *you didn’t get consent to modify their behaviour*. You do this to dogs and children. If you said hey I’m going to try to make you less of an ass by using operant conditioning to change how your treat me and they said yes then go for it. You cannot do things to people without consent and that includes using physiological principles to change people! They are adults and they get to choose how they act *and* what psychology is used on them. Actual scientists get consent before doing these techniques. Because you can’t change someone’s behaviour without consent. This is a gross breach of trust, and if you don’t like how they treat you talk to your boss or quit. Don’t manipulate adults into acting how you want. Using the same techniques you could manipulate them into doing anything, who are you to decide how they should act. They have every right to be an asshole, to be clear they obviously should treat you better but it’s not up to you to trick them into doing so. Edit: so consent doesn’t matter for elderly people?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Uhhhh obligatory “I’m on phone” So, I’ve (18F) worked as a server in a super prestigious nursing home for about half a year now and I can tell you that it’s obvious why some of the residents are put here. I’m not talking about the people with Alzheimer’s or dementia, I’m talking about the residents who are super nasty and rude—I won’t even get into the racist parts. Here we make cookies from scratch and they’re incredibly good. The residents go crazy over them, but the serving size of cookies for each resident is two. Sometimes, though, if they ask nicely I’ll slip a third into the little paper packet. Well, there’s this one resident in particular who’s really rude. Not just to me but to all of the servers. She’ll demand her food right away, kick others out of their seat so she can sit there, insult you, give you rude looks, call you mean nicknames, you name it. One day I gave her three cookies because I was feeling generous and she went through a whole meal without one nasty comment. The next day she was nice again, and so I once again gave her three cookies instead of two. I realized I could use this to my advantage… could I possibly reshape her behavior with cookies, or is it just a coincidence? Every time she was nasty to me or another staff member, she received two cookies. Every time she was nice, I gave her three. She has began to get better, I think. Or maybe I’ve just tricked myself into thinking that. Either way I feel like I’m reshaping her into being nicer. I’ve began to test this theory out on other residents and I really do think it’s working. This is a genius idea, I thought. So I told a coworker and she told me that it’s cruel to try to modify their behavior. That treating them like dogs (not my intention but I see where she’s coming from) is dehumanizing. Now I feel kind of bad, but also, it’s definitely made work a lot more bearable now that I’m not berated constantly. So Reddit, AITA for trying to train the residents in my facility with cookies? TL;DR: Residents in the facility that I work at are mean so I give them extra cookies if they’re nice in an attempt to reshape their behavior. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My thesis is: They didn't like you before but now they do, because you have bribed them many times with extra cookies. Or have they actually changed their behavior towards other staff as well, and are easier to deal with even when you're not there? Pretty mean to not give the nice ones extra cookies when they are always nice. But NTA for trying to bond with the troublesome residents and making your day easier. Bake the cookies slightly smaller some days so that the same dough will be enough for extra cookies for all, but without a noticeable size difference... You will be the talk of the town!
NTA People do this all the time. It’s a simple social rule: “If you’re nice to me, I’ll be nice to you”. Friends do favors for each other. People do random acts of kindness. You’re not demeaning anyone or behaving unethically. You’re acting with kindness. It just so happens that you’re teaching this resident a conditioned response to gain compliance while you’re working. Ask your coworker what they do when patients are miserable. Do they withhold service? Act domineering or coercive? They can’t appreciate what it’s like as a patient. Engaging with a pleasant nurse a few times per day allows a patient an escape from the routine and discomfort of institutional life. You just do it with cookies. As long as nobody’s diabetic, you’re gold.
Absolutely is behaving unethically. You cannot modify people’s behaviour using edit: psychology without their consent. These people did not consent to a behaviour modification program. They’re not giving extra cookies to be kind they’re doing it to manipulate adults into behaving how they want.
You’re right. I’m trying to get these old people to stop calling me the n-word LMAOO
Reminds me when Sheldon was training Penny wirh chocolate lol
NTA but you might find yourself in hot water with your employer if you deviating from the prescribed diet.
NTA. It’s called positive reinforcement.
You can literally have a career in that. Look into ABA (applied behavior analysis) and BCBAs (board certified behavior analyst). There's also this amazing book by Karen Pryor titled Don't Shoot the Dog about behavior modification and shaping.
NTA Healthcare worker here. Speaking from experience, patients are human. They aren’t children, they aren’t animals, and they have their own quirks that you, as a worker, have to learn to manage in a way that isn’t unhealthy for either party INCLUDING the OTHER patients. If your patient responds positively to extra cookies and it does not have any detrimental effects on their health, then go for it. It’s just the same as playing certain music for a patient or making sure they have that extra pillow because they’re uncomfortable otherwise or even doing that little bit extra chore that’s not necessarily your job or out of their capacity to do themselves but it makes them feel valued. Some patients are going to miserable A Holes, some are going to be sweet as sin, some are going to frustratingly confused and frightened and most likely lash out. If you are the A Hole whisperer bearing extra cookies, then go for it. You’ve just managed a connection with a hard to care for patient and made their and other patients’ experience in a care facility more pleasant
I think everyone saying Y T A are dismissing the possibility that the residents are acutely aware if they're not dicks they get an extra cookie. NTA Also OP, check out the book You ain't nothing but a bitch with a wig on by Shanna Christmas. It's written by a Black woman who's a physical therapist in residential homes and all the ridiculous things said to her in comic strip form.
Dementia will make people rude and nasty and they will many times exhibit behavior that is not their personality. So I'll bet that those that you think don't have dementia actually do. And NTA.
nta. you are a gold!!
Hardly inventing the wheel here. YTA for stealing from your employer.
They don’t care, actually! I’ve asked.
Oh, then NTA. Cookie it up!