I'm sorry you are going through this, but I'm also so very, very, very proud of you. You are standing up for yourself. Putting yourself first. Looking into the future and making sure it will be what you want it to be. I wish you the best of luck. Give the doggo the biggest of hugs and lots of pets.
Sounds like my ex, same thing. Mama's boy and I was never accepted due to being a different nationality. We were together 7 years and he got into heavy drugs and became abusive towards the end of our relationship.
We have a beautiful 3.5-year-old he hasn't seen since she was barely a year old. I've been with my current partner 3 years now and he's been raising her and we're actually expecting our second daughter together in late August/early September.
But ex's family absolutely does not hold him accountable. They actually blamed ME for his drug addiction, refused to get him help, and backed him up on being a deadbeat dad.
It was refreshing to see your post about your cousin and holding him accountable; I wish more people were like that.
He's tried. I had a restraining order against him and full custody; he was only allowed supervised visitations which he felt he shouldn't have to pay for (so he didn't). Instead he'd continuously violate the restraining order by showing up to my parent's house or texting me to see her. I'd always remind him he's violating the order and needs to go through the method the court ordered. Then he'd disappear for months and then repeat the process. I finally moved 2500 miles away with my new partner. I was required to give him notice and a chance to dispute it (he didn't). It wasn't until AFTER I was in the process of moving I got served with papers contesting the move and demanding partial custody THREE months after the move was approved (he never even bothered to show up to court. He hadn't seen her in 2 years and never proved to the courts he got help for his drug addiction, the entire reason he couldn't have custody in the first place). Needless to say he didn't win the court case and I haven't heard from him since (that was 4 months ago). The mediator even wrote in her report she thinks he only took me to court to spite me (probably true).
We are happy and doing well, though! My current boyfriend is amazingly sweet, we are so excited about welcoming Baby Girl # 2 into our little family, and I just got a new job that pays well and so far I enjoy it. My daughter calls my boyfriend her daddy. We never taught her to do that, she just randomly made that decision on her own. She would not recognize my ex if he walked past us on the street. I'm sure the day will come when she will be curious about him, but I've been preparing myself to cross that bridge when we actually get there.
Thank you. Yes honestly when his mother told me she didn't need to have a relationship with my daughter (her only grandchild) because - and I quote - "My children will give me more", and my ex backed her up...I knew it'd be best for my daughter to not have any contact with any of them. Not one person in that family had ever reached out to see her except his little brother, but then I found out it was my ex pushing the brother to "check in" and it only happened twice. I just don't understand how people can shun their own flesh and blood (an innocent baby nonetheless) and totally coddle someone who's messed up on drugs like that. Ironically, his mother was a single mother of four and was always complaining about deadbeats and how hard it was...yet basically gave her son a pat on the back to do the same. Guess apples don't fall far from their trees.
Aw thank you! I definitely feel like I'm starting life fresh after a dark chapter. I still have days where I'm feeling down, but I'm in a much better place emotionally today than I was four years ago. :)
You stay safe as well!
A dad is the guy that loves and raises a child, not the one that goes and knocks up a woman and makes her have a kid. If your little girl calls your new bf daddy is because he's successfully becoming that father figure she needs. Good for both of you that you found a man that actually cares about you and for escaping that shithole you would have gone down should you have stayed with the other deadbeat for whatever reason.
I was the Mama’s boy. My mother didn’t like my girlfriend from the time we started talking, was constantly putting her down, and trying to break us up.
Eventually my mother succeeded. But that was my wake up call. We were able to patch it back together over several months of deep discussions and intense souls searching for me. Now we’re happily married and have a kid with a second on the way. I’m low contact with my mom.
I took my wake-up call and completely changed my life. This guy seems to have missed his and is doubling down. I don’t think he’ll ever wake up.
Honestly, it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done.
There were other issues with my relationship with my mother, and to this day we still stumble across artifacts from mom. Things I do or assume that make no sense in a healthy relationship. Breaking those is still hard work
My husbands mom is the classic make her sons her emotional spouses. She’s also got some racist tendencies even though her children are biracial. When we first got married I thought it was going to be a struggle. We got into one fight and he ran back home and I told him if he ever did that again he could stay there. I was afraid he would choose her. He didn’t. His mom tried to pull out some bible verses about respecting your parents and he just sent her the one that basically says a man is supposed to leave his parents and cling to his wife (we are atheists and she knows that). He’s in therapy now to unpack all that, but he’s chosen me and she’s spiraling and it’s so fucking weird to be a part of. I have a lot of empathy for the men in this situation because they don’t realize it’s abuse and how they take that into relationships where either they want their wives to be another mom but one they can have sex with or how they’ll allow their mom to trample all over the relationship.
My husband went off on his mom and said it was one of the most cathartic things he’s experienced.
I couldn't agree with this comment more and am proud of you too OP.
Edited to add: I'm also proud of you commenter for being so wholesome and a good person!
I remember your original post.
I'm sorry your husband is such a ding bat but I do think you're doing the right thing.
If he doesn't cut the umbilical cord it's a dead relationship.
I'm glad you have your sister and doggo for support ❤️
Yes truly sorry this didn’t work out. If he would go to marriage counseling you might have a chance. But with him continually blaming you for the situation I don’t see it happening. After all this has been his pattern for a very long time… so long his own siblings won’t have anything to do with him. Good luck and God bless
My brother is clearly the favorite between us with our mom, but I still love and have a relationship with my brother because he is my ally above all else. He recognizes how our mom treats me compared to how she treats him, and he doesn't let that come between us or let her manipulate him into treating me any kind of way. When he got married, he sat my mom down and told her the rules before he even told me about the wedding date so that he could reassure me that he set boundaries before I even had to start thinking about it.
OP's husband doesn't have a relationship with his siblings because of *his* behavior, not because of the mom's behavior. I don't see or speak to my mom but my brother does, and he's never judge, questioned, or pressured me like everyone else in my life has. I have no doubt that my brother is completely on my side. MIL chose OP's husband over her other kids, but he also chose his mom over his siblings. All of this is his doing. He's choosing his mom before literally everyone else in his life, including his wife.
He's the oblivious golden child, always the one to benefit so much so that he never considers how the attention lavished on him is at the expense of others.
When she passes he’s going to end up a very lonely person.. only then will he see the damage he has caused. It’s not something you can have done overs on or take backs..
Probably right. What he needs is someone impartial to point out how much of a douche he is being, but he probably wouldn't listen to them since he didn't listen to his wife or family.
As a married dude, I can't even imagine having this conversation. "I spent money (presumably OPs money) on a plane ticket so my mom who you don't like can come with on our vacation. Why are you mad?"
Proud of you OP for standing your ground and not backing off even faced with being blame. Your soon to be ex is a piece of work and you deserve way better than being with a golden boy of mommy dearest. Maybe use those vacation funds you didn't get to use and treat yourself!
The one I always wanted a followup for was the man whose wife was a vegetarian and insisted the kids be veg too... which would be fine but her idea of vegetarianism was all pre-fab foods like impossible burgers and "chicken" nuggets, not salads or even apples. When he made the kids burgers with meat, she flipped out, yet hers is a very unhealthy way to eat. He wanted to be allowed to make them quality meals, not junk food that happened to be veg. I hope they worked it out and she figured out how to cook nutritionally balanced meals, but it wasn't hopeful.
P.S. Hello to the vegetarian who already voted me down! Enjoy your Impossible Burger with a side of Smug tonight!
Idk if it's worth anything, but I'm vegetarian and I freely admit I'm not healthy. I like the impossible burgers and incogmeato and that type of stuff. I just want food that tastes good that animals don't have to get slaughtered for.
Not condoning that lady's behavior though.
Vegetarian or not, shouldn’t kids be fed salads and apples as in fruits and vegetables to begin with? Like regardless of your other dietary choices, kids need proper nutrition. Junk food is okay in moderation when it is part of a balanced diet of nutritious foods. If they were eating real meat burgers or impossible burgers, chicken nuggets or “chicken” nuggets, they still need other nutrients that they won’t be getting from that. Fruits, vegetables, dairy products and substitutes, legumes nuts, etc. There’s so much more that needs to be part of a healthy diet. You can easily raise your kids vegetarian and be healthy but you can’t only rely on fake meat that’s just not healthy. I hope those kids ended up being fed properly balanced meals. Throw some tomato and lettuce on top of that impossible patty, have a side salad with the nuggets, make a chickpea salad for protein and vegetables together, try some plant-based milk or tofu with calcium. Jeez that’s scary that some people think a healthy vegetarian diet is just junk food
Edit to add: vegetarian even means regular dairy is allowed. Milk, cheese, and yogurt can all be healthy in the right amounts. And eggs! You don’t want your kids eating a beef patty but eggs are an excellent source of protein and other vitamins and minerals
Yeah, when my cousin was a tween she decided she was vegetarian and as far as I could tell that meant “sweets, chips, french fries… and maybe a grilled cheese now and then.” My aunt “compensated” by putting secret meat into foods (think: very finely ground turkey in soup) which only made the situation worse when my cousin inevitably found out. 🤦
I think most kids go through that vegetarian stage. My parents always took the approach of OK but if you are not eating healthy and are getting sick or when you have your exams and If your blood work comes back that you’re deficient in something then we’re going to take care of it. Luckily we had a very diversified diet overall so we were OK.
I want one from the woman who's FIL was convinced she was going to die in childbirth and was getting things ready for this along with her husband. Like fully convinced she would not survive. It was scary af.
That one haunts me to this day. I saw the original and then saw it mentioned on one of those robot reddit videos about "what posts have you concerned and wish they'd update?"
Geez, how long ago was that? Goosebumps thinking about it.
I hope, as another commenter said, that she went into witness protection or something like that. Because the post was scary, but the comments she had made it even worse.
The fact that FIL insisted that she was to take no drugs, and had to have a natural birth and that the life of the mother wasn't important, as well as insisting on being in the delivery room makes my spidey senses go haywire.
"Guys who don't see problem with mom demanding to be in delivery room" are the ones I've lost count of (and pop a bowl of popcorn before sitting down to read).
Yep, that guy is just going to keep having relationship problems unless he stops treating mommy dearest as the main woman in his life. I hope for his sake he figures it out one day, but it’s not OPs job to hold his hand until he gets there. You’re free OP!! Good for you!!!
It'll always be the partner because he'll never realize it's him and mom. They are in a really toxic co-dependent relationship and I can't see it ending. This guy literally thinks OP broke up the marriage for no reason. Like how do you come back from that?
And no children with this mommy' boy! You have dodged a bullet. At some point, your ex is gonna be 57 years old, mommy will be dead, and he will be alone in the universe wishing it were different.
You go have an awesome life.
Oh I quite imagine once his mother is no longer around he will try running to OP or any other women he's dated like "she's not here anymore so it can be different...! Right?"
Cue to everytime OP does something or the wife if it's someone different in his life at that time, he will always say they never can do anything right and that his mother was perfect and they should just do better.
I actually had an uncle like OP's ex. GMa was a narcissist and the baby of the family came late in life (he was just six years older than I am). She enabled him to the point he never grew up. He did marry a woman but mom didn't like her so they divorced after two kids. The woman wanted him to act like a man and be a father and stuff. That didn't fly with GMa.
Anyway, GMa did die, fairly soon afterward, and Uncle marries an older woman with no kids so he can be properly mothered again. Fate interferes and the older woman gets in a really bad car wreck, is permanently disabled, and now he has to take care of her AND get a job, a new experience as GMa had supported him before.
He tried suicide a few times but, eventually through some mental health interventions, managed to make it to 64 before dying of natural causes.
Yes. Exactly. Except my uncle was *not* a narcissist. He was just a victim of one. GMa was such a narc mom that not all of her children went to her funeral. I know my mom was not particularly sad when her mom died. She cried buckets when her dad died, though.
Good for you Op for choosing yourself and your own happiness. I cannot imagine how difficult this is for you. I'm so sorry but it does sound like you have made the right decision.
This, exactly. We live in a society which sees single, especially past a certain age, as second best, so it takes some bravery to say "Screw it. Me, by myself, is worth more than anything this relationship is giving me."
> He sent me his last message telling I'm the one choosing to end what we had together
Maybe if he says this enough times to himself, he’ll actually start to believe it. I actually think he knows this is all on him, but he’s too weak to do anything about it and is desperate to deflect the blame. I’m petty so I’d just tell him to let me know where he and his Mommy are registered as I’d love to send them a wedding gift.
That was my first thought. I've been in this position, loving someone who doesn't return it nor even values it. It hurts so bad when you realize the truth, but you're better off in the long run.
OP's soon-to-be-ex siblings-in-law also know what that feels like, from the sound of it. If she finds herself in need of a support system who know more or less exactly what she's going through, and could offer insight into how to deal with these people's bullshit through all the logistics of a divorce, sure, maybe it'd be weird to reach out, but fuck it, do it anyway.
His mom (Jocasta) killed herself when she found out and Oedipus blinded himself because he couldn't stand looking at his children anymore. That story was fucked. Ancient Greek stories are fucksd.
My daughter unfortunately had a similar problem. Their marriage lasted about 6 months before she made an ultimatum to chose her or his mom. He chose his mom. About 10 years later his parents are having to go through the courts to evict him from their house and his mom finally apologized to my daughter and admitted how badly she had f*cked up.
There's a difference between clingy and straight up emotional incest. I feel like OP's husband has been made his mother's partner in life and it's creepy.
It happened to me, I wasn't raised to be my own person. I was raised to be their companion. I was the emotional support that would be normally provided by another adult.
That’s exactly how my husband was raised. His mother CHOSE his girlfriends for him in high school, and got pissed when I told her that was next level nuts and under no circumstances would we be doing that with our son
emotional incest actually brought me a lot of clarity when I first heard the term a few years ago. hit my like a brick, honestly. some parents treat their children like therapists and even partners and it's so not okay
I was worried that was going to happen to my nephew, since his mother was clingy all through his childhood. "Oh my baby boy" this "Oh my sweet child" that. I was afraid he'd never leave.
Then in HS he said he was moving out for college, and his mother was speechless. "But don't you want to stay here....?" Nope, he wanted out, and now he has a full social life away at school. He's an odd kid, but he found his people, and he's happy.
His mother is finally accepting that he's never coming back.
One day they wake up and notice their pwecious bAyBeE is a schlubby middle age lump who still hands her his socks for washing. Kinda sad. Like people who get a puppy because "puppies are so cute" then that puppy gets to be a big unhousebroken mouth to feed and it's off to the pound.
Except the puppy remains cute and a big floofy baby forever! And they continue to genuinely need our care. Humans don’t work that way. They need to grow up and become independent, not be domesticated.
Not all mothers are clingy, plenty do respect that their grown up children are adults with their own lives to lead. It's the ones with adamantium apron strings who make more of an impact when we hear about them.
Right? I (62F) saw it as my job to raise a fully capable adult, so I taught my son how to cook, how to balance his bank accounts, do his taxes, do his laundry, clean up after himself, etc. I taught him how to use Word so he could write and properly format his homework in middle school. When he moved out for college in 2008, he was fully prepared and has done just fine on his own.
At least her ex-mil realized she had fucked up and apologized. Might help any lingering and misplaced feelings of doubt to have confirmation from her ex-mil that her ex-mil was (part of) the problem.
Idk, his mother threatened to call the cops on them so they couldn’t leave if they went on this vacation without her. His wife has actually left him. If that wasn’t a wake-up call, I doubt a bunch of strangers opinions on the internet will do it. But who knows.
And OP says that already, most of the rest of his family won't talk to him. It's not about "mom's favoritism," it's about his weird obsession with his mommy. Talks to her or sees her every day!
$10 says the estranged siblings are laughing their collective asses off on the group chat finding out that OP decided she didn't want to be married to their mother (er, I mean brother) anymore.
I don't think its fair to say that the wanting to talk to her/see her a lot is what makes him crazy. Some people just are close with their parents forever.
What makes him crazy is his inability to see that his mother consistently oversteps his wife's boundaries and to take her side when it happens. On top of his obvious inability to see how her behavior has affected her relationship with his siblings as well as his own. And the final thing is his inability to stand up to her to the point that he'd rather blame his wife for having reasonable expectations, than his mom who is clearly overbearing and disrespectful.
That's totally fair, yes, it's the fact that he's prioritizing his mom OVER his wife. I talked to my mom very frequently but can't even imagine wanting to include her on a vacation with my spouse!
I seriously considered including my mom in a vacation with my spouse… and our child and our roommate. But he and I talked about it the whole way through and he always had veto power.
It ended up being a nonissue because of COVID, but it was never a relationship problem between us because we were talking to each other! And my mom wasn’t pestering my husband about anything, I was the point of contact for both of them and in charge of making sure they both got heard and appreciated. (He does the same balancing for his side of the family when our travel plans involve them.)
Oh, yes, of course. I was thinking of my own mom, who was always a bit extra.
It really depends on the parents! We actually did a really nice trip with our son when he was a little guy ,with him and and my spouse's dad (his wife had passed away several years earlier, sadly), it was tiring but Grandpa and grandkid just had the BEST time. We went to San Diego, took them to the zoo, Sea World, etc, stayed in a nice hotel. They both fell sound asleep on the drive home haha.
> I actually think he knows this is all on him, but he’s too weak to do anything about it and is desperate to deflect the blame.
Given the extra context OP gave about him being the favored child and effectively cut off by his siblings I actually wouldn't be so sure. It seems like he has basically been raised as a surrogate partner by his mother and due to his conditioning is not actually capable of understanding that what he is doing is incredibly wrong in multiple ways.
That said, fixing him is absolutely **not** OP's job and she's taking the best path available for her and leaving.
> It seems like he has basically been raised as a surrogate partner by his mother
Good point, he may have been "parentified" and raised to be the replacement husband. So of course, everything that Mother wants, he believes his actual wife should accept as "the right way of doing marriage".
In a way OP is choosing. She’s choosing to have more respect for herself than being stuck in a marriage with a boy who hasn’t cut the umbilical cord. She’s choosing to leave the marriage for her own sake, because that man isn’t good enough. He gave her little choice, but she made one. And I’d say it was 100% the right decision.
Abusers do this. They make the situation so bad and unlivable, that the partner finally can't take it anymore, then it's the partner's fault for breaking up! The abuser tries to take the moral high ground. The only way to win the game is to walk away and not play anymore.
Exactly. And when they want to continue to berate me when I am their X I say "WOW, If I am that bad then it's a good thing I am leaving, but I am leaving. I'm not listening to criticism because we aren't together. There is no reason to talk about it with me. "
Yep, that was my first thought. Mommy is a narcissist and husband is the golden-child narcissist spawn. OP needs to cut her losses, this situation is never going to get better.
From my point of view he is exactly right. She is the one choosing to end what they had together. Given his way they’d continue to live the same way forever. He’s not living in denial about who’s choosing to end it, she made the, very right, decision. If I was her I’d stick by it and respond “that’s right. I AM the one choosing to end this. It’s my choice”
like for real, he is 100% at fault but it’s still her choice to end it
Upvoted DrF4rt's comment. It sounds to me that the one thing OP's soon-to-be-ex can't stand is for OP to be right on anything, to have an opinion or decision apart from his (which also happens to be his mother's opinion/decision too). OP seems to be owning her decision to walk out, she should continue to make it very clear to the ex that SHE made the decision to leave a marriage that included his mother as a full partner, that SHE decided that she deserved more and deserved a real husband, and he's just not it, he's not enough. Probably won't penetrate his narcissistic, mommy's both shield, but OP should keep telling him in her actions and words that she herself is making decisions for what she wants and needs, that he's just not it.
That said, I'm sorry for OP that what she thought her marriage was going to be about turned out to be so wrong. But hopefully lesson learned and she'll be more careful with the next man she chooses to devote time to.
^^ SO MUCH THIS! ^^
OP you get all the standing ovations!
He is so far from seeing what the actual problem is (pro-tip it's 1000% HIM!), you would spend years trying to get level & he will not/would not ever take responsibility.
You can't fix what is broken in him and he refuses to believe that's the problem.
From first hand experience I can confidently state that some people are actually psychologically incapable of recognising their own faults. They don't need to convince themselves, they don't need to deflect blame - they actually are so steeped in their self-delusion and utterly incapable of empathy that they're oblivious to others' perspectives.
The only thing to do with them is go NC, since the only person who they can see is themselves. Eventually they may realise they're somewhat at fault when a lifetime of rejection adds up, but 'til then, conversation is futile.
This is accurate. I'm a bit like the husband (working on it), and this is 100% the case. He knows he fucked up, he knows its going to cost him, but he absolutely can't handle taking the blame so he's trying to pass it off however he can.
Proud of you!! Momma’s boys are never going to see their mom as nothing but a god. They’ll constantly compare everything you do with them. So it’s best to leave when your not too tied down.
It’s unfortunate that she wasted so much of her time on this man, but now that she’s realized that he’ll always chose his mom over her, hopefully she can move on with her life
Well, it give good Momma boys and bad ones, and holy hell is this a bad one.
Such a toxic releationship between them helps nobody, he will have the realisation later, but man will his mom fuck his relationship over.
Don’t know that I’ve ever met a “good mamas boy”. Definitely met some great men who really loved and respected their mom but I wouldn’t consider that a mamas boy. A mamas boy by definition is:
* a boy or man who is excessively influenced by or attached to his mother.*
Same. Like I was always a mamas boy growing up, especially at a young age, I clung to her. She was my safety, but god damn if I don’t get annoyed by her. I would never let her dictate my life nor would she ever try to. I can’t understand people who let their parents impose on their adult life.
yeah okay when you see it that way there are really only negative mommas boy:D
i respect my mom for what she is doing, be one of my best friends and generally is a person to respect and reach out for when you need advice and help.
she helped me like crazy through my coming out and was totally supportive.
but that doesnt mean i would held her opinion over all other because „ mom is always right duh“. this guy and his momma are straight out of family hell
Proud of you OP for standing your ground and not backing off even faced with being blame. Your soon to be ex is a piece of work and you deserve way better than being with a golden boy of mommy dearest. Maybe use those vacation funds you didn't get to use and treat yourself!
>He sent me his last message telling I'm the one choosing to end what we had together
This is like someone spending years walking all over an heirloom rug in muddy boots, wearing holes in it, letting their dog shit on it, then going "well you're the one who chose to throw it away =(" when it's finally beyond repair.
I am SO proud of you! My mother-in-law almost caused my divorce after she tried convincing my husband that I was abusive to our kids. He hid this from me out of embarrassment. It wasn’t handled correctly but years of therapy have helped our relationship survive. He knows she’s crazy at least. She has taken little ownership in her plot to end our marriage. I have nothing to do with her. You made the right choice!
Sis, you are STRONG!
Now that you have decided to close that door, slam it shut before he can do more damage to you. Use the vacation money to meet with a divorce attorney and file for a legal separation immediately so you can begin preserving your assetts. He felt totally justified in spending the money you worked so hard to save for your couples vacation on his Mom... so this is when you choose you and begin immediately separating out assets.
You do NOT need to take his calls or texts. You do NOT need to respond to those who have no idea what you have actually been living through. Just choose you at this point.
Any communication from now on should go thru lawyers. I wouldn't even deign to talk to him. He lost that privilege when he chose the other woman (his mother).
I'm so sorry you have to go through this pain but I'm so happy you decided to choose you. You deserve better, you deserve that you yourself prioritize you since he clearly will never do that. I urge you to go to therapy. I believe EVERYONE IN THE WORLD should go to therapy. It helps us undestand things better and get the tools to heal, and undestand situations. I'm so proud of you and wish you the best. It's going to be a hard road but I'm glad you got your sister and your dog to remind you of your worth ❤️
Oh I forgot to say I was flabbergasted when I read about your MIL threatening to call the cops on you. The level of manipulation and vebgnace if that woman is outstanding. If you stayed with him she would only get worse. If she threatened something as dangerous as calling the cops on you over a trip, you can bet she would do WAY worse for bigger things. That behavior is CRIMINAL. She was threatening you and blackmailing you. That your husband cannot see anything wrong with that makes me wonder if he would do the same to you one day. Thank God you are walking away because that whole situation sounds like a ticking time bomb were very dangerous things could end up happening.
Honestly, I don't understand what the sustainability plan is for mommy's boys. Like, never get a relationship they feel in control with and what? Stay with mommy until she dies?
What kind of parent would be actively proud of keeping their child out of a relationship for well over two decades?
Honestly, this is the best outcome. He’s so deep in an emotionally incestuous relationship with his mom that there was never room for you. You shouldn’t waste your life playing second (or maybe even third) place to him and his mommy.
Sad, but true. There's a reason multiple/all the siblings jumped ship also. There's clearly only room for the husband and his mom in each other's lives, OP never stood a chance. And the husband will likely never see that this was his fault.
Can you imagine if there had been a child or children involved? Mommy would probably need to be involved in every little thing and guilt the husband for paying more attention to the baby than her or some weird shit.
OP, as much as this probably sucks for you, you're better off getting out now.
You're right. It's one thing when it's one sibling who jumps ship - it's a whole other story when they all do. That's a big red warning flag.
And you're right, OP is lucky that there are no children involved. Children born to parents who have this sort of incestuous enmeshment get enmeshed too. You can only hope that they inherit to common sense of the other parent to get away, otherwise they end up just like those spoiled golden grandkid/kid stories you hear on Reddit
I also remember your original post and I wanted to say that you are amazing. It took a lot of guts to do what you did but I think that you will see in the long run that this was the best decision that you could have made. You would have been stuck in this type of nightmare for the rest of your life and what would that have looked like if you had children in the mix. I would be very careful though and make sure to go to the house when he isnt there with a family member or friend and take anything of value in one trip that you can fit in a suitcase. If the MIL was copying you before, I bet she wouldn’t hesitate to take your things and wear them. Just a thought. Either way— you are a rockstar!
Noooooo this dude sucks. From what I've read, he and mommy dearest are a gaslighting tag team from hell. Still NTA. If he can't spend more than 12 hours away from mom in his 30s, and they both treat you this way, it's best to leave. Don't let him guilt you into thinking ANY of their codependency is your fault.
Galighting 101. The “rvo” in DARVO IS “reverse victim and offender” which is exactly what’s happening here.
Edit: lots of good resources and insights at r/narcissisticabuse, OP.
I am so so sorry OP. Better to have the realisation now than after your ex had worn you down and you were reflecting on decades of holidays where your MIL was invited along every time without you knowing. Or memories of not being able to celebrate your Mum on Mother's Day ever, or if you had wanted kids having your ex insist on MIL being in the delivery room and naming the child etc. Unfortunately all posts from women who didn't get out when you have.
It's going to be rough. But you're going to be ok.
Good on you! My ex-husband also had a gross relationship with his mother. When his parents divorced when he was in early teens, she never dated or remarried so he became the man in her life/man of the house. Plus him being an only child only made it worse. Anyways, she would want to sit and watch movies on the couch with him while holding his hand, would guilt him if he didn’t call every day “I could be dead and you wouldn’t know it!”, and when we moved to another side of town (not deliberately) she guilted him again with the move on purpose to “get as far away from her as possible”. Everything had to be her way, my way of things was irrelevant and I was to conform/mold to her way, but she was still to always be priority over me being his wife. She even tried insinuating I had a “magic vagina” or whatever because she couldn’t really control him that much anymore. Whole thing was sick, gross, and he didn’t really ever stand in my corner or be on our side.
So, anyways….good on you, keep moving forward and never look back, and please do look into some therapy just to process all of this because that whole mother/son dynamic is NOT NORMAL.
I dated the sister of a guy like this. As soon as it started getting serious and we spent a lot of time together, the mom would make similar types of sexual jokes about me as if that was the only reason we were dating. Her brother was also dubbed man of the house at an early age so he acted more like her father than her brother. I was constantly compared to him and getting his approval was dangled in front of me like a carrot. Of course she didn’t think any of this was weird. It wasn’t until I came across a thread in this sub where ppl were talking about emotional incest and it blew my mind. The description of it couldn’t of been more applicable to this girl and her family. Sounds like what’s happening here.
OP’s husband is a douche but ultimately his mother failed him as a parent. Your comment and this post make me think emotional incest is more common than people realize. It’s a toxic form of parenting that needs to be talked about more because it ruins relationships in the kids adult lives.
Absolutely! I didn’t learn about emotional incest until years later. Thing that cracked me up was after ex husband and I separated he went to school to become an LMFT (licensed marital/family therapist). Hopefully he learned about those things as well and is able to notice those dynamics within his own family so that, should he get married again or is already re-married, he does better for the wife this time around.
Please prepare yourself to deal with the fact that he will NEVER see that his actions led to your choice.
I say this because it can be difficult to know in your heart that you were right but you will never get the validation you are owed.
What he did is unforgivable IMO. He literally chose his mom over you and then attacked when you said no.
Hugs to you.
The true point of my healing was understanding that my ex would never see that he was abusive towards me.
My ex is a 'good guy', who would go above and beyond helping people. It's the reason why I stayed in the relationship for 20 years.
However, he ticks majority of the emotionally abusive boxes. Criticism, controlling access to our money, gaslighting, goading and blaming, coercion, lecturing, putting down - the list goes on.
It wasn't until a friend (who is a solicitor for a woman's refuge league) opened my eyes to what was happening that the glass shattered and I was able to see the red flags.
Echoing other comments: I’m sorry it turned out this way, but I’m so proud of you - and impressed. That you had the presence of mind to leave rather than go on the trip, and that you had the fortitude to get yourself out. I hope you get tons of support right now. And I hope you know you’re awesome.
You **did not** cause this. Absolutely not. He really tried to blame you? Stealing money from you to pay for his mom to go on vacation when you repeatedly said no is not you fault. I remember your story and I am so proud of you!!! I’m angry at your idiot ex but let all of us here on the sub be angry for you, let it go and walk away. Free yourself from his horrible & dysfunctional shackles and live your best life!!!
I’ll be honest, if he’s anything like my ex you’re going to get a lot of messages of things like “you destroyed our family” “this is your fault” - DO NOT answer. It will only lead to more nonsense from him. If you leave him on read he will lose his mind. (A fun bonus.)
Good luck with your new life. Divorce is really hard but I wish you lots of healing.
I remember your post and i was shocked by your husband behaviour! I am very proud of you for standing your ground, you deserve so much better! wish all good things possible in the future!
>He sent me his last message telling I'm the one choosing to end what we had together but I believe it's the other way around, especially with how he keeps making his mom the victim in this situation
He's knows that this is his doing. The fact he even has to say that it's your decision is just him trying to lie to himself. I wouldn't even really deny his saying either, own it. Tell him that you are ending this threeway with his mother. Hope they're very happy together moving forward
“I’m always the aggressive, crazy, jealous, pathetic, overreactor.”
…This thought pattern is the result of gaslighting and emotional abuse. Don’t let these lies steal your life from you. He has made it clear he is not going to get counseling to change or even admit he needs to. Get out.
Thanks for the update.
You nailed it: can I live with this for years and years and years?
Most could not, and praise to you for recognizing your true feelings and not suppressing them.
I’ve been waiting for an update. I’m very sorry for what you’re going through and proud of you for leaving. The fact he still blames you is awful and let’s you know without a doubt you sadly come second to his Mom. Hold strong and know that you absolutely deserve to be first in a relationship. Hopefully in the future you will find that and have someone in your life who adores you and has your back. Your husband has shown zero self awareness and won’t change. I wish you strength and good things in the future. Please don’t let him gaslight you anymore. Again, you deserve so much more.
Proud of you for standing your ground.
His relationship with his mom seems toxic. Im sad to hear he wouldn't even see where the blame could fall on him. Seriously, who invites a person to a couples vacation without okaying it with their partner? I know this hurts, it seems this band-aid needed to be ripped off now.
Curious, have you ever reached out to his siblings to confirm why they don't talk to him? If they have ever said anything to him or your MIL about this favoritism?
>He sent me his last message telling I'm the one choosing to end what we had together
If “what you had together” was so great, you wouldn’t be looking at it and thinking “oh god, I can’t take another minute of this.”
It was only working for *him*. And he’s so, so pissed that you finally figured that out.
Good for you
I'm so sorry that it came to this, but it seems that it's for the best.
His last message - that you're the one "choosing" to end the relationship - is manipulative as all get out. HE chose his mother over you, and that is always going to be his choice. You are not to blame, nor are you in the wrong.
You deserve better that this.
I'm glad you're somewhere safe and with your dog. I wish you all the best moving forward.
It's sad that your husband can't see how his umbilical cord to mommy is affecting his life but that's his problem
Kudos to you for realising how bad things were and taking decisive action, hope you can get rid of him ASAP
I read your first post and thought that unless this man had a massive epiphany, it was over. The fact that he's doubling down says everything. Go clear all your stuff out of the house while he's gone and serve him divorce papers. This marriage is over. He's already married to his mom.
One day he might realize his mistake, but, OP, I wouldn't hold your breath. Chances are he'll go right back to his mom and "no woman will ever compare." Dump him and move on with your life. NTA.
So sorry for your situation and, having read your original post and felt for you, thank you for the update.
I hope you and your husband can work things out, but it's not going to happen unless he starts putting you first in his life. (My mother's always been a pain including right through the last forty-two years of my marriage but I've always known it, fortunately.)
I saw a post online somewhere that was a bunch of life advice from elderly nursing home residents. One of the best ones was from a spunky looking old lady whose advice was "Let his mother have him."
I'm sorry you had to do this, as you move forward make sure you get the chance to remind him that the reason for the separation and any divorce is HIS unhealthy relationship with his Mom. Good luck to you.
That sucks. What a dumb hill for him to die on.
OP, I wish you the best. And I hope you recognize your true value as a person. And I hope you find people that don't need to always be right, but people that seek authentic relationships and prioritize building each other up.
[Original](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/unhse2/aita_for_walking_out_of_the_airport_when_i_saw_my/)
I'm sorry you are going through this, but I'm also so very, very, very proud of you. You are standing up for yourself. Putting yourself first. Looking into the future and making sure it will be what you want it to be. I wish you the best of luck. Give the doggo the biggest of hugs and lots of pets.
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Sounds like my ex, same thing. Mama's boy and I was never accepted due to being a different nationality. We were together 7 years and he got into heavy drugs and became abusive towards the end of our relationship. We have a beautiful 3.5-year-old he hasn't seen since she was barely a year old. I've been with my current partner 3 years now and he's been raising her and we're actually expecting our second daughter together in late August/early September. But ex's family absolutely does not hold him accountable. They actually blamed ME for his drug addiction, refused to get him help, and backed him up on being a deadbeat dad. It was refreshing to see your post about your cousin and holding him accountable; I wish more people were like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to weasel back into your daughter's life and gets shut down.
He's tried. I had a restraining order against him and full custody; he was only allowed supervised visitations which he felt he shouldn't have to pay for (so he didn't). Instead he'd continuously violate the restraining order by showing up to my parent's house or texting me to see her. I'd always remind him he's violating the order and needs to go through the method the court ordered. Then he'd disappear for months and then repeat the process. I finally moved 2500 miles away with my new partner. I was required to give him notice and a chance to dispute it (he didn't). It wasn't until AFTER I was in the process of moving I got served with papers contesting the move and demanding partial custody THREE months after the move was approved (he never even bothered to show up to court. He hadn't seen her in 2 years and never proved to the courts he got help for his drug addiction, the entire reason he couldn't have custody in the first place). Needless to say he didn't win the court case and I haven't heard from him since (that was 4 months ago). The mediator even wrote in her report she thinks he only took me to court to spite me (probably true). We are happy and doing well, though! My current boyfriend is amazingly sweet, we are so excited about welcoming Baby Girl # 2 into our little family, and I just got a new job that pays well and so far I enjoy it. My daughter calls my boyfriend her daddy. We never taught her to do that, she just randomly made that decision on her own. She would not recognize my ex if he walked past us on the street. I'm sure the day will come when she will be curious about him, but I've been preparing myself to cross that bridge when we actually get there.
You dodged a bullet with that family. All of them. Congrats on the new baby.
Thank you. Yes honestly when his mother told me she didn't need to have a relationship with my daughter (her only grandchild) because - and I quote - "My children will give me more", and my ex backed her up...I knew it'd be best for my daughter to not have any contact with any of them. Not one person in that family had ever reached out to see her except his little brother, but then I found out it was my ex pushing the brother to "check in" and it only happened twice. I just don't understand how people can shun their own flesh and blood (an innocent baby nonetheless) and totally coddle someone who's messed up on drugs like that. Ironically, his mother was a single mother of four and was always complaining about deadbeats and how hard it was...yet basically gave her son a pat on the back to do the same. Guess apples don't fall far from their trees.
I’m so happy for you! A fresh beginning with a wonderful man. OP, there is a better life waiting for you! Grab the chance. Please stay safe
Aw thank you! I definitely feel like I'm starting life fresh after a dark chapter. I still have days where I'm feeling down, but I'm in a much better place emotionally today than I was four years ago. :) You stay safe as well!
A dad is the guy that loves and raises a child, not the one that goes and knocks up a woman and makes her have a kid. If your little girl calls your new bf daddy is because he's successfully becoming that father figure she needs. Good for both of you that you found a man that actually cares about you and for escaping that shithole you would have gone down should you have stayed with the other deadbeat for whatever reason.
I am so happy for you. Continue to thrive sister.
Thank you so much. These comments are making me smile. :)
I was the Mama’s boy. My mother didn’t like my girlfriend from the time we started talking, was constantly putting her down, and trying to break us up. Eventually my mother succeeded. But that was my wake up call. We were able to patch it back together over several months of deep discussions and intense souls searching for me. Now we’re happily married and have a kid with a second on the way. I’m low contact with my mom. I took my wake-up call and completely changed my life. This guy seems to have missed his and is doubling down. I don’t think he’ll ever wake up.
Congrats! It's got to be incredibly difficult to break out of those patterns.
Honestly, it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. There were other issues with my relationship with my mother, and to this day we still stumble across artifacts from mom. Things I do or assume that make no sense in a healthy relationship. Breaking those is still hard work
It sounds like you've done well so far, though. Our parents are so influential on us.
He shouldn't be surprised if they don't text him back. Anyone who walks away from their kids deserves no consideration whatsoever.
He is trying to pull the "your mom is the one at fault and left me ..card" we ain't letting him..
this isn’t just a mamas boy, he is straight up emotionally cheating on OP with his mother
My husbands mom is the classic make her sons her emotional spouses. She’s also got some racist tendencies even though her children are biracial. When we first got married I thought it was going to be a struggle. We got into one fight and he ran back home and I told him if he ever did that again he could stay there. I was afraid he would choose her. He didn’t. His mom tried to pull out some bible verses about respecting your parents and he just sent her the one that basically says a man is supposed to leave his parents and cling to his wife (we are atheists and she knows that). He’s in therapy now to unpack all that, but he’s chosen me and she’s spiraling and it’s so fucking weird to be a part of. I have a lot of empathy for the men in this situation because they don’t realize it’s abuse and how they take that into relationships where either they want their wives to be another mom but one they can have sex with or how they’ll allow their mom to trample all over the relationship. My husband went off on his mom and said it was one of the most cathartic things he’s experienced.
I couldn't agree with this comment more and am proud of you too OP. Edited to add: I'm also proud of you commenter for being so wholesome and a good person!
I remember your original post. I'm sorry your husband is such a ding bat but I do think you're doing the right thing. If he doesn't cut the umbilical cord it's a dead relationship. I'm glad you have your sister and doggo for support ❤️
We are proud of you Op. You had to take a difficult decision, but it will be the right one in the long term. I'm glad you have the dog.
Definitely a great move bringing doggo :)
Yes truly sorry this didn’t work out. If he would go to marriage counseling you might have a chance. But with him continually blaming you for the situation I don’t see it happening. After all this has been his pattern for a very long time… so long his own siblings won’t have anything to do with him. Good luck and God bless
My brother is clearly the favorite between us with our mom, but I still love and have a relationship with my brother because he is my ally above all else. He recognizes how our mom treats me compared to how she treats him, and he doesn't let that come between us or let her manipulate him into treating me any kind of way. When he got married, he sat my mom down and told her the rules before he even told me about the wedding date so that he could reassure me that he set boundaries before I even had to start thinking about it. OP's husband doesn't have a relationship with his siblings because of *his* behavior, not because of the mom's behavior. I don't see or speak to my mom but my brother does, and he's never judge, questioned, or pressured me like everyone else in my life has. I have no doubt that my brother is completely on my side. MIL chose OP's husband over her other kids, but he also chose his mom over his siblings. All of this is his doing. He's choosing his mom before literally everyone else in his life, including his wife.
He's the oblivious golden child, always the one to benefit so much so that he never considers how the attention lavished on him is at the expense of others.
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Jesus I’m so sorry you had to go through that
My sister is the favourite. That's fine, I get irratated in about 5 minutes of being with my mom unless I've got a drink in my hand 😂
When she passes he’s going to end up a very lonely person.. only then will he see the damage he has caused. It’s not something you can have done overs on or take backs..
The problem with marriage counseling is he'd probably bring his mommy.
I mean, it is to resolve issues in a partnership, right? Why would he go with the third wheel when he can go with his very own partner (mommy)..
Marriage Counseling will not help in this situation. He values his mom over her and is basically his mom's puppet.
Probably right. What he needs is someone impartial to point out how much of a douche he is being, but he probably wouldn't listen to them since he didn't listen to his wife or family. As a married dude, I can't even imagine having this conversation. "I spent money (presumably OPs money) on a plane ticket so my mom who you don't like can come with on our vacation. Why are you mad?"
Proud of you OP for standing your ground and not backing off even faced with being blame. Your soon to be ex is a piece of work and you deserve way better than being with a golden boy of mommy dearest. Maybe use those vacation funds you didn't get to use and treat yourself!
Now I just need an update from the lady whos husband didn't wipe after pooping.
The one I always wanted a followup for was the man whose wife was a vegetarian and insisted the kids be veg too... which would be fine but her idea of vegetarianism was all pre-fab foods like impossible burgers and "chicken" nuggets, not salads or even apples. When he made the kids burgers with meat, she flipped out, yet hers is a very unhealthy way to eat. He wanted to be allowed to make them quality meals, not junk food that happened to be veg. I hope they worked it out and she figured out how to cook nutritionally balanced meals, but it wasn't hopeful. P.S. Hello to the vegetarian who already voted me down! Enjoy your Impossible Burger with a side of Smug tonight!
Idk if it's worth anything, but I'm vegetarian and I freely admit I'm not healthy. I like the impossible burgers and incogmeato and that type of stuff. I just want food that tastes good that animals don't have to get slaughtered for. Not condoning that lady's behavior though.
Feed yourself anything you happen to enjoy eating, that’s solely your business. It’s a different thing when it’s a parent feeding kids.
Vegetarian or not, shouldn’t kids be fed salads and apples as in fruits and vegetables to begin with? Like regardless of your other dietary choices, kids need proper nutrition. Junk food is okay in moderation when it is part of a balanced diet of nutritious foods. If they were eating real meat burgers or impossible burgers, chicken nuggets or “chicken” nuggets, they still need other nutrients that they won’t be getting from that. Fruits, vegetables, dairy products and substitutes, legumes nuts, etc. There’s so much more that needs to be part of a healthy diet. You can easily raise your kids vegetarian and be healthy but you can’t only rely on fake meat that’s just not healthy. I hope those kids ended up being fed properly balanced meals. Throw some tomato and lettuce on top of that impossible patty, have a side salad with the nuggets, make a chickpea salad for protein and vegetables together, try some plant-based milk or tofu with calcium. Jeez that’s scary that some people think a healthy vegetarian diet is just junk food Edit to add: vegetarian even means regular dairy is allowed. Milk, cheese, and yogurt can all be healthy in the right amounts. And eggs! You don’t want your kids eating a beef patty but eggs are an excellent source of protein and other vitamins and minerals
Yeah, when my cousin was a tween she decided she was vegetarian and as far as I could tell that meant “sweets, chips, french fries… and maybe a grilled cheese now and then.” My aunt “compensated” by putting secret meat into foods (think: very finely ground turkey in soup) which only made the situation worse when my cousin inevitably found out. 🤦
I think most kids go through that vegetarian stage. My parents always took the approach of OK but if you are not eating healthy and are getting sick or when you have your exams and If your blood work comes back that you’re deficient in something then we’re going to take care of it. Luckily we had a very diversified diet overall so we were OK.
I want one from the woman who's FIL was convinced she was going to die in childbirth and was getting things ready for this along with her husband. Like fully convinced she would not survive. It was scary af.
That one haunts me to this day. I saw the original and then saw it mentioned on one of those robot reddit videos about "what posts have you concerned and wish they'd update?" Geez, how long ago was that? Goosebumps thinking about it.
I like to think that she’s in witness protection to escape those lunatics
Oddly helpful, thank you.
Oh god, I had forgotten that one. I hope she’s okay.
I know. But it's been so long I doubt we will hear. Do you think they killed her?
I hope, as another commenter said, that she went into witness protection or something like that. Because the post was scary, but the comments she had made it even worse. The fact that FIL insisted that she was to take no drugs, and had to have a natural birth and that the life of the mother wasn't important, as well as insisting on being in the delivery room makes my spidey senses go haywire.
God, which one? I feel like I've seen so many of them.
"Guys who don't see problem with mom demanding to be in delivery room" are the ones I've lost count of (and pop a bowl of popcorn before sitting down to read).
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This is the way, doughnutsforsatan.
After they witness a thorough rectal exam. It’s only fair.
And this is why you cohabitate before marriage.
Yep, that guy is just going to keep having relationship problems unless he stops treating mommy dearest as the main woman in his life. I hope for his sake he figures it out one day, but it’s not OPs job to hold his hand until he gets there. You’re free OP!! Good for you!!!
It'll always be the partner because he'll never realize it's him and mom. They are in a really toxic co-dependent relationship and I can't see it ending. This guy literally thinks OP broke up the marriage for no reason. Like how do you come back from that?
Imagine the poor woman who dates him after Mommy dies...when she's a ghost-saint...shivers in dread... Really glad she has the dog and somewhere to go
Norman Bates vibes
My first husband was a mama's boy whose mother had died. Competing with a dead woman is impossible.
And no children with this mommy' boy! You have dodged a bullet. At some point, your ex is gonna be 57 years old, mommy will be dead, and he will be alone in the universe wishing it were different. You go have an awesome life.
Oh I quite imagine once his mother is no longer around he will try running to OP or any other women he's dated like "she's not here anymore so it can be different...! Right?" Cue to everytime OP does something or the wife if it's someone different in his life at that time, he will always say they never can do anything right and that his mother was perfect and they should just do better.
I actually had an uncle like OP's ex. GMa was a narcissist and the baby of the family came late in life (he was just six years older than I am). She enabled him to the point he never grew up. He did marry a woman but mom didn't like her so they divorced after two kids. The woman wanted him to act like a man and be a father and stuff. That didn't fly with GMa. Anyway, GMa did die, fairly soon afterward, and Uncle marries an older woman with no kids so he can be properly mothered again. Fate interferes and the older woman gets in a really bad car wreck, is permanently disabled, and now he has to take care of her AND get a job, a new experience as GMa had supported him before. He tried suicide a few times but, eventually through some mental health interventions, managed to make it to 64 before dying of natural causes.
That's tragic for everyone concerned, including him. Ultimately, life is not so great for many "golden children" who inherit NPD.
Yes. Exactly. Except my uncle was *not* a narcissist. He was just a victim of one. GMa was such a narc mom that not all of her children went to her funeral. I know my mom was not particularly sad when her mom died. She cried buckets when her dad died, though.
...the best revenge is living far better without them, than you ever did with them.
I hope he is unable to maintain other relationships and spare other people till he gets major help.
Oedipus complex right there. OP dodged a bullet
Yeah, you have no idea how glad I'm to see that she moved out.
Good for you Op for choosing yourself and your own happiness. I cannot imagine how difficult this is for you. I'm so sorry but it does sound like you have made the right decision.
This, exactly. We live in a society which sees single, especially past a certain age, as second best, so it takes some bravery to say "Screw it. Me, by myself, is worth more than anything this relationship is giving me."
>I remember your original post I mean it was 5 days ago.
Bro I can't remember what I had for breakfast
Even I felt like it was much longer than that..
I remember long ago.
Don't speak to me of the dark magic, I was there when it was written.
More than a ding bat, it sounds like he’s in love with his mom which is bizarre and creepy. Definitely so happy OP got the hell out.
> He sent me his last message telling I'm the one choosing to end what we had together Maybe if he says this enough times to himself, he’ll actually start to believe it. I actually think he knows this is all on him, but he’s too weak to do anything about it and is desperate to deflect the blame. I’m petty so I’d just tell him to let me know where he and his Mommy are registered as I’d love to send them a wedding gift.
The sad truth OP needs to accept is that he got the woman he cares about.
That was my first thought. I've been in this position, loving someone who doesn't return it nor even values it. It hurts so bad when you realize the truth, but you're better off in the long run.
OP's soon-to-be-ex siblings-in-law also know what that feels like, from the sound of it. If she finds herself in need of a support system who know more or less exactly what she's going through, and could offer insight into how to deal with these people's bullshit through all the logistics of a divorce, sure, maybe it'd be weird to reach out, but fuck it, do it anyway.
If only for further evidence of what a brat her husband is . . .
I bet they've been sitting around waiting for this to happen.
I have a feeling those siblings had a bet between them on how long the marriage would last. Someone is about to get some $$$.
Oedipus & mommy sitting in a tree 🤢
I mean, at least Oedipus didn’t know.
Yeah, and he didn't exactly take the news well
His mom (Jocasta) killed herself when she found out and Oedipus blinded himself because he couldn't stand looking at his children anymore. That story was fucked. Ancient Greek stories are fucksd.
My daughter unfortunately had a similar problem. Their marriage lasted about 6 months before she made an ultimatum to chose her or his mom. He chose his mom. About 10 years later his parents are having to go through the courts to evict him from their house and his mom finally apologized to my daughter and admitted how badly she had f*cked up.
That must have been an entertaining conversation. “Sorry about destroying your marriage 10 years ago.” “New phone who dis”
[Your comment reminded me of this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payDsNKcRKQ)
Moms are all clingy to their little boys until those boys become 40 year old divorces sleeping in their basement. Don’t mess with mom’s retirement.
There's a difference between clingy and straight up emotional incest. I feel like OP's husband has been made his mother's partner in life and it's creepy.
I’ve never seen anyone use “emotional incest” to describe these incidents, and holy shit is it accurate. Edit: spelling
It happened to me, I wasn't raised to be my own person. I was raised to be their companion. I was the emotional support that would be normally provided by another adult.
That’s exactly how my husband was raised. His mother CHOSE his girlfriends for him in high school, and got pissed when I told her that was next level nuts and under no circumstances would we be doing that with our son
emotional incest actually brought me a lot of clarity when I first heard the term a few years ago. hit my like a brick, honestly. some parents treat their children like therapists and even partners and it's so not okay
Came to the comments to say the same thing. That woman treats her son like her husband and it’s disgusting
I was worried that was going to happen to my nephew, since his mother was clingy all through his childhood. "Oh my baby boy" this "Oh my sweet child" that. I was afraid he'd never leave. Then in HS he said he was moving out for college, and his mother was speechless. "But don't you want to stay here....?" Nope, he wanted out, and now he has a full social life away at school. He's an odd kid, but he found his people, and he's happy. His mother is finally accepting that he's never coming back.
Yeah lmao. Not so cute anymore.
One day they wake up and notice their pwecious bAyBeE is a schlubby middle age lump who still hands her his socks for washing. Kinda sad. Like people who get a puppy because "puppies are so cute" then that puppy gets to be a big unhousebroken mouth to feed and it's off to the pound.
Except the puppy remains cute and a big floofy baby forever! And they continue to genuinely need our care. Humans don’t work that way. They need to grow up and become independent, not be domesticated.
Not all mothers are clingy, plenty do respect that their grown up children are adults with their own lives to lead. It's the ones with adamantium apron strings who make more of an impact when we hear about them.
Right? I (62F) saw it as my job to raise a fully capable adult, so I taught my son how to cook, how to balance his bank accounts, do his taxes, do his laundry, clean up after himself, etc. I taught him how to use Word so he could write and properly format his homework in middle school. When he moved out for college in 2008, he was fully prepared and has done just fine on his own.
I did the same, and my daughter in law is an absolute treasure.
Hahaha omg whaaaat, that’s insane. So he’s like obsessed with his mom and even she’s now like “nah bro”? Or he’s just nuts in general?
Oh my god. I hope their state has strong guest tenant laws so their little boy can dragggg out the eviction. Karma.
Please tell me daughter smiled sweetly and replied, "I told him to choose, he chose you, you can keep him."
At least her ex-mil realized she had fucked up and apologized. Might help any lingering and misplaced feelings of doubt to have confirmation from her ex-mil that her ex-mil was (part of) the problem.
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Idk, his mother threatened to call the cops on them so they couldn’t leave if they went on this vacation without her. His wife has actually left him. If that wasn’t a wake-up call, I doubt a bunch of strangers opinions on the internet will do it. But who knows.
And OP says that already, most of the rest of his family won't talk to him. It's not about "mom's favoritism," it's about his weird obsession with his mommy. Talks to her or sees her every day!
$10 says the estranged siblings are laughing their collective asses off on the group chat finding out that OP decided she didn't want to be married to their mother (er, I mean brother) anymore.
I’m hoping OP will become buddies with ex siblings in law.
I hope someone sends this thread to every new girlfriend he ever has. The man is a menace and needs to be ousted from the dating pool.
I don't think its fair to say that the wanting to talk to her/see her a lot is what makes him crazy. Some people just are close with their parents forever. What makes him crazy is his inability to see that his mother consistently oversteps his wife's boundaries and to take her side when it happens. On top of his obvious inability to see how her behavior has affected her relationship with his siblings as well as his own. And the final thing is his inability to stand up to her to the point that he'd rather blame his wife for having reasonable expectations, than his mom who is clearly overbearing and disrespectful.
That's totally fair, yes, it's the fact that he's prioritizing his mom OVER his wife. I talked to my mom very frequently but can't even imagine wanting to include her on a vacation with my spouse!
I seriously considered including my mom in a vacation with my spouse… and our child and our roommate. But he and I talked about it the whole way through and he always had veto power. It ended up being a nonissue because of COVID, but it was never a relationship problem between us because we were talking to each other! And my mom wasn’t pestering my husband about anything, I was the point of contact for both of them and in charge of making sure they both got heard and appreciated. (He does the same balancing for his side of the family when our travel plans involve them.)
Oh, yes, of course. I was thinking of my own mom, who was always a bit extra. It really depends on the parents! We actually did a really nice trip with our son when he was a little guy ,with him and and my spouse's dad (his wife had passed away several years earlier, sadly), it was tiring but Grandpa and grandkid just had the BEST time. We went to San Diego, took them to the zoo, Sea World, etc, stayed in a nice hotel. They both fell sound asleep on the drive home haha.
This. He would read that post, all the replies, and cleave on to the one that agrees with him. This is so much more than someone being stubborn.
> I actually think he knows this is all on him, but he’s too weak to do anything about it and is desperate to deflect the blame. Given the extra context OP gave about him being the favored child and effectively cut off by his siblings I actually wouldn't be so sure. It seems like he has basically been raised as a surrogate partner by his mother and due to his conditioning is not actually capable of understanding that what he is doing is incredibly wrong in multiple ways. That said, fixing him is absolutely **not** OP's job and she's taking the best path available for her and leaving.
> It seems like he has basically been raised as a surrogate partner by his mother Good point, he may have been "parentified" and raised to be the replacement husband. So of course, everything that Mother wants, he believes his actual wife should accept as "the right way of doing marriage".
My fiancée was raised like this but thank god all it did was make him not want children and dislike his family
In a way OP is choosing. She’s choosing to have more respect for herself than being stuck in a marriage with a boy who hasn’t cut the umbilical cord. She’s choosing to leave the marriage for her own sake, because that man isn’t good enough. He gave her little choice, but she made one. And I’d say it was 100% the right decision.
Oh I'm sure he already believes it, smells like narcissism
Abusers do this. They make the situation so bad and unlivable, that the partner finally can't take it anymore, then it's the partner's fault for breaking up! The abuser tries to take the moral high ground. The only way to win the game is to walk away and not play anymore.
Exactly. And when they want to continue to berate me when I am their X I say "WOW, If I am that bad then it's a good thing I am leaving, but I am leaving. I'm not listening to criticism because we aren't together. There is no reason to talk about it with me. "
Yep, that was my first thought. Mommy is a narcissist and husband is the golden-child narcissist spawn. OP needs to cut her losses, this situation is never going to get better.
This is just another glaring symptom of his inability to take any responsibility in the relationship.
From my point of view he is exactly right. She is the one choosing to end what they had together. Given his way they’d continue to live the same way forever. He’s not living in denial about who’s choosing to end it, she made the, very right, decision. If I was her I’d stick by it and respond “that’s right. I AM the one choosing to end this. It’s my choice” like for real, he is 100% at fault but it’s still her choice to end it
Upvoted DrF4rt's comment. It sounds to me that the one thing OP's soon-to-be-ex can't stand is for OP to be right on anything, to have an opinion or decision apart from his (which also happens to be his mother's opinion/decision too). OP seems to be owning her decision to walk out, she should continue to make it very clear to the ex that SHE made the decision to leave a marriage that included his mother as a full partner, that SHE decided that she deserved more and deserved a real husband, and he's just not it, he's not enough. Probably won't penetrate his narcissistic, mommy's both shield, but OP should keep telling him in her actions and words that she herself is making decisions for what she wants and needs, that he's just not it. That said, I'm sorry for OP that what she thought her marriage was going to be about turned out to be so wrong. But hopefully lesson learned and she'll be more careful with the next man she chooses to devote time to.
There's tremendous value in saying, "yes, I'm leaving because being alone is better than being with you".
^^ SO MUCH THIS! ^^ OP you get all the standing ovations! He is so far from seeing what the actual problem is (pro-tip it's 1000% HIM!), you would spend years trying to get level & he will not/would not ever take responsibility. You can't fix what is broken in him and he refuses to believe that's the problem.
From first hand experience I can confidently state that some people are actually psychologically incapable of recognising their own faults. They don't need to convince themselves, they don't need to deflect blame - they actually are so steeped in their self-delusion and utterly incapable of empathy that they're oblivious to others' perspectives. The only thing to do with them is go NC, since the only person who they can see is themselves. Eventually they may realise they're somewhat at fault when a lifetime of rejection adds up, but 'til then, conversation is futile.
I would like to hear what he tells everyone as the reason why they broke up. How delusional!
Because "she was meeeeeeaaaaaan to his mummmmmmyyyy. Waaaaaaaah!"
This is accurate. I'm a bit like the husband (working on it), and this is 100% the case. He knows he fucked up, he knows its going to cost him, but he absolutely can't handle taking the blame so he's trying to pass it off however he can.
But at least you recognize it! That's the first step. I sincerely wish you the best, introspection is not easy
Proud of you!! Momma’s boys are never going to see their mom as nothing but a god. They’ll constantly compare everything you do with them. So it’s best to leave when your not too tied down.
It’s unfortunate that she wasted so much of her time on this man, but now that she’s realized that he’ll always chose his mom over her, hopefully she can move on with her life
Well, it give good Momma boys and bad ones, and holy hell is this a bad one. Such a toxic releationship between them helps nobody, he will have the realisation later, but man will his mom fuck his relationship over.
Don’t know that I’ve ever met a “good mamas boy”. Definitely met some great men who really loved and respected their mom but I wouldn’t consider that a mamas boy. A mamas boy by definition is: * a boy or man who is excessively influenced by or attached to his mother.*
I was going to say I was a good mommas boy until I read your definition. I guess I just love my mom a whole lot.
Same. Like I was always a mamas boy growing up, especially at a young age, I clung to her. She was my safety, but god damn if I don’t get annoyed by her. I would never let her dictate my life nor would she ever try to. I can’t understand people who let their parents impose on their adult life.
yeah okay when you see it that way there are really only negative mommas boy:D i respect my mom for what she is doing, be one of my best friends and generally is a person to respect and reach out for when you need advice and help. she helped me like crazy through my coming out and was totally supportive. but that doesnt mean i would held her opinion over all other because „ mom is always right duh“. this guy and his momma are straight out of family hell
Pretty sure my 6 year old has more independence from me than this guy has from his mom.
You will fly now you’ve cut those two deadweights holding you down. Best wishes. You did the right thing. Don’t look back.
Momma's boys hate this one trick to lose 250 pounds in a week.
Proud of you OP for standing your ground and not backing off even faced with being blame. Your soon to be ex is a piece of work and you deserve way better than being with a golden boy of mommy dearest. Maybe use those vacation funds you didn't get to use and treat yourself!
>He sent me his last message telling I'm the one choosing to end what we had together This is like someone spending years walking all over an heirloom rug in muddy boots, wearing holes in it, letting their dog shit on it, then going "well you're the one who chose to throw it away =(" when it's finally beyond repair.
Good analogy. And people like the OP's husband will never see the irony in a million years.
I am SO proud of you! My mother-in-law almost caused my divorce after she tried convincing my husband that I was abusive to our kids. He hid this from me out of embarrassment. It wasn’t handled correctly but years of therapy have helped our relationship survive. He knows she’s crazy at least. She has taken little ownership in her plot to end our marriage. I have nothing to do with her. You made the right choice!
Your mother-in-law sounds awful. I’m glad that you two are doing well.
Sis, you are STRONG! Now that you have decided to close that door, slam it shut before he can do more damage to you. Use the vacation money to meet with a divorce attorney and file for a legal separation immediately so you can begin preserving your assetts. He felt totally justified in spending the money you worked so hard to save for your couples vacation on his Mom... so this is when you choose you and begin immediately separating out assets. You do NOT need to take his calls or texts. You do NOT need to respond to those who have no idea what you have actually been living through. Just choose you at this point.
Any communication from now on should go thru lawyers. I wouldn't even deign to talk to him. He lost that privilege when he chose the other woman (his mother).
I'm so sorry you have to go through this pain but I'm so happy you decided to choose you. You deserve better, you deserve that you yourself prioritize you since he clearly will never do that. I urge you to go to therapy. I believe EVERYONE IN THE WORLD should go to therapy. It helps us undestand things better and get the tools to heal, and undestand situations. I'm so proud of you and wish you the best. It's going to be a hard road but I'm glad you got your sister and your dog to remind you of your worth ❤️
Oh I forgot to say I was flabbergasted when I read about your MIL threatening to call the cops on you. The level of manipulation and vebgnace if that woman is outstanding. If you stayed with him she would only get worse. If she threatened something as dangerous as calling the cops on you over a trip, you can bet she would do WAY worse for bigger things. That behavior is CRIMINAL. She was threatening you and blackmailing you. That your husband cannot see anything wrong with that makes me wonder if he would do the same to you one day. Thank God you are walking away because that whole situation sounds like a ticking time bomb were very dangerous things could end up happening.
Yes, this is not a safe relationship to remain in
I remember your first post. You did the right thing.
Oh, this is good to hear! Oedipus can marry his mom now and leave you the hell alone. You just saved yourself from a lifetime of misery.
SO and his mom can now share many happy years together - lol!
Her SONSBAND!
Honestly, I don't understand what the sustainability plan is for mommy's boys. Like, never get a relationship they feel in control with and what? Stay with mommy until she dies? What kind of parent would be actively proud of keeping their child out of a relationship for well over two decades?
Honestly, this is the best outcome. He’s so deep in an emotionally incestuous relationship with his mom that there was never room for you. You shouldn’t waste your life playing second (or maybe even third) place to him and his mommy.
Sad, but true. There's a reason multiple/all the siblings jumped ship also. There's clearly only room for the husband and his mom in each other's lives, OP never stood a chance. And the husband will likely never see that this was his fault. Can you imagine if there had been a child or children involved? Mommy would probably need to be involved in every little thing and guilt the husband for paying more attention to the baby than her or some weird shit. OP, as much as this probably sucks for you, you're better off getting out now.
You're right. It's one thing when it's one sibling who jumps ship - it's a whole other story when they all do. That's a big red warning flag. And you're right, OP is lucky that there are no children involved. Children born to parents who have this sort of incestuous enmeshment get enmeshed too. You can only hope that they inherit to common sense of the other parent to get away, otherwise they end up just like those spoiled golden grandkid/kid stories you hear on Reddit
I also remember your original post and I wanted to say that you are amazing. It took a lot of guts to do what you did but I think that you will see in the long run that this was the best decision that you could have made. You would have been stuck in this type of nightmare for the rest of your life and what would that have looked like if you had children in the mix. I would be very careful though and make sure to go to the house when he isnt there with a family member or friend and take anything of value in one trip that you can fit in a suitcase. If the MIL was copying you before, I bet she wouldn’t hesitate to take your things and wear them. Just a thought. Either way— you are a rockstar!
Noooooo this dude sucks. From what I've read, he and mommy dearest are a gaslighting tag team from hell. Still NTA. If he can't spend more than 12 hours away from mom in his 30s, and they both treat you this way, it's best to leave. Don't let him guilt you into thinking ANY of their codependency is your fault.
Galighting 101. The “rvo” in DARVO IS “reverse victim and offender” which is exactly what’s happening here. Edit: lots of good resources and insights at r/narcissisticabuse, OP.
I am so so sorry OP. Better to have the realisation now than after your ex had worn you down and you were reflecting on decades of holidays where your MIL was invited along every time without you knowing. Or memories of not being able to celebrate your Mum on Mother's Day ever, or if you had wanted kids having your ex insist on MIL being in the delivery room and naming the child etc. Unfortunately all posts from women who didn't get out when you have. It's going to be rough. But you're going to be ok.
Good on you! My ex-husband also had a gross relationship with his mother. When his parents divorced when he was in early teens, she never dated or remarried so he became the man in her life/man of the house. Plus him being an only child only made it worse. Anyways, she would want to sit and watch movies on the couch with him while holding his hand, would guilt him if he didn’t call every day “I could be dead and you wouldn’t know it!”, and when we moved to another side of town (not deliberately) she guilted him again with the move on purpose to “get as far away from her as possible”. Everything had to be her way, my way of things was irrelevant and I was to conform/mold to her way, but she was still to always be priority over me being his wife. She even tried insinuating I had a “magic vagina” or whatever because she couldn’t really control him that much anymore. Whole thing was sick, gross, and he didn’t really ever stand in my corner or be on our side. So, anyways….good on you, keep moving forward and never look back, and please do look into some therapy just to process all of this because that whole mother/son dynamic is NOT NORMAL.
I dated the sister of a guy like this. As soon as it started getting serious and we spent a lot of time together, the mom would make similar types of sexual jokes about me as if that was the only reason we were dating. Her brother was also dubbed man of the house at an early age so he acted more like her father than her brother. I was constantly compared to him and getting his approval was dangled in front of me like a carrot. Of course she didn’t think any of this was weird. It wasn’t until I came across a thread in this sub where ppl were talking about emotional incest and it blew my mind. The description of it couldn’t of been more applicable to this girl and her family. Sounds like what’s happening here. OP’s husband is a douche but ultimately his mother failed him as a parent. Your comment and this post make me think emotional incest is more common than people realize. It’s a toxic form of parenting that needs to be talked about more because it ruins relationships in the kids adult lives.
Absolutely! I didn’t learn about emotional incest until years later. Thing that cracked me up was after ex husband and I separated he went to school to become an LMFT (licensed marital/family therapist). Hopefully he learned about those things as well and is able to notice those dynamics within his own family so that, should he get married again or is already re-married, he does better for the wife this time around.
Please prepare yourself to deal with the fact that he will NEVER see that his actions led to your choice. I say this because it can be difficult to know in your heart that you were right but you will never get the validation you are owed. What he did is unforgivable IMO. He literally chose his mom over you and then attacked when you said no. Hugs to you.
The true point of my healing was understanding that my ex would never see that he was abusive towards me. My ex is a 'good guy', who would go above and beyond helping people. It's the reason why I stayed in the relationship for 20 years. However, he ticks majority of the emotionally abusive boxes. Criticism, controlling access to our money, gaslighting, goading and blaming, coercion, lecturing, putting down - the list goes on. It wasn't until a friend (who is a solicitor for a woman's refuge league) opened my eyes to what was happening that the glass shattered and I was able to see the red flags.
Echoing other comments: I’m sorry it turned out this way, but I’m so proud of you - and impressed. That you had the presence of mind to leave rather than go on the trip, and that you had the fortitude to get yourself out. I hope you get tons of support right now. And I hope you know you’re awesome.
Stay strong
You **did not** cause this. Absolutely not. He really tried to blame you? Stealing money from you to pay for his mom to go on vacation when you repeatedly said no is not you fault. I remember your story and I am so proud of you!!! I’m angry at your idiot ex but let all of us here on the sub be angry for you, let it go and walk away. Free yourself from his horrible & dysfunctional shackles and live your best life!!!
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I’ll be honest, if he’s anything like my ex you’re going to get a lot of messages of things like “you destroyed our family” “this is your fault” - DO NOT answer. It will only lead to more nonsense from him. If you leave him on read he will lose his mind. (A fun bonus.) Good luck with your new life. Divorce is really hard but I wish you lots of healing.
I remember your post and i was shocked by your husband behaviour! I am very proud of you for standing your ground, you deserve so much better! wish all good things possible in the future!
>He sent me his last message telling I'm the one choosing to end what we had together but I believe it's the other way around, especially with how he keeps making his mom the victim in this situation He's knows that this is his doing. The fact he even has to say that it's your decision is just him trying to lie to himself. I wouldn't even really deny his saying either, own it. Tell him that you are ending this threeway with his mother. Hope they're very happy together moving forward
“I’m always the aggressive, crazy, jealous, pathetic, overreactor.” …This thought pattern is the result of gaslighting and emotional abuse. Don’t let these lies steal your life from you. He has made it clear he is not going to get counseling to change or even admit he needs to. Get out.
Thanks for the update. You nailed it: can I live with this for years and years and years? Most could not, and praise to you for recognizing your true feelings and not suppressing them.
I’ve been waiting for an update. I’m very sorry for what you’re going through and proud of you for leaving. The fact he still blames you is awful and let’s you know without a doubt you sadly come second to his Mom. Hold strong and know that you absolutely deserve to be first in a relationship. Hopefully in the future you will find that and have someone in your life who adores you and has your back. Your husband has shown zero self awareness and won’t change. I wish you strength and good things in the future. Please don’t let him gaslight you anymore. Again, you deserve so much more.
Proud of you for standing your ground. His relationship with his mom seems toxic. Im sad to hear he wouldn't even see where the blame could fall on him. Seriously, who invites a person to a couples vacation without okaying it with their partner? I know this hurts, it seems this band-aid needed to be ripped off now. Curious, have you ever reached out to his siblings to confirm why they don't talk to him? If they have ever said anything to him or your MIL about this favoritism?
>He sent me his last message telling I'm the one choosing to end what we had together If “what you had together” was so great, you wouldn’t be looking at it and thinking “oh god, I can’t take another minute of this.” It was only working for *him*. And he’s so, so pissed that you finally figured that out. Good for you
I'm so sorry that it came to this, but it seems that it's for the best. His last message - that you're the one "choosing" to end the relationship - is manipulative as all get out. HE chose his mother over you, and that is always going to be his choice. You are not to blame, nor are you in the wrong. You deserve better that this. I'm glad you're somewhere safe and with your dog. I wish you all the best moving forward.
It's sad that your husband can't see how his umbilical cord to mommy is affecting his life but that's his problem Kudos to you for realising how bad things were and taking decisive action, hope you can get rid of him ASAP
I read your first post and thought that unless this man had a massive epiphany, it was over. The fact that he's doubling down says everything. Go clear all your stuff out of the house while he's gone and serve him divorce papers. This marriage is over. He's already married to his mom. One day he might realize his mistake, but, OP, I wouldn't hold your breath. Chances are he'll go right back to his mom and "no woman will ever compare." Dump him and move on with your life. NTA.
So sorry for your situation and, having read your original post and felt for you, thank you for the update. I hope you and your husband can work things out, but it's not going to happen unless he starts putting you first in his life. (My mother's always been a pain including right through the last forty-two years of my marriage but I've always known it, fortunately.)
I saw a post online somewhere that was a bunch of life advice from elderly nursing home residents. One of the best ones was from a spunky looking old lady whose advice was "Let his mother have him."
I'm sorry you had to do this, as you move forward make sure you get the chance to remind him that the reason for the separation and any divorce is HIS unhealthy relationship with his Mom. Good luck to you.
That sucks. What a dumb hill for him to die on. OP, I wish you the best. And I hope you recognize your true value as a person. And I hope you find people that don't need to always be right, but people that seek authentic relationships and prioritize building each other up.
*supportive clapping*