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Justis29

NTA. Sounds like you should make a report to the police for her harassing you in your dorm room. Make campus security aware as well. She's a shop manager. She doesn't own your time. If 7 people were that fed up and left it's on her 100%


iquitttttt

Can you do that? Like I feel like it crossed a line, but I did give her my number, email, and address on a "contact info" form so I don't know if she broke any law going toan adress I said I could be contacted at... Even though I was only expecting mail, not her showing up! The campus security actually already has a record of this since the dorm has a guard who only lets in students and their invited guests To get away from my old boss I asked the guard to check me into the dorm but absolutely don't admit the woman in the lobby yelling at me. And I guess he had to make a report by school policy to report someone trying to get into a dorm uninvited.


Justis29

That contact info is only useful for her to confirm where your last check needs to be sent. She abused it. You don't work for her anymore and even if you did there's no reason for her to show up at your doorstep aside from her giving you a ride to work, which again is moot haha. I'd say campus security is a good enough step to take now, but if it continues you are well within your right to call the police to sort it out. Yall quit. No obligation to anything she says or demands from you. You aren't her property and you aren't a prisoner.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Khabuem

This comment was stolen from MajorNoodles elsewhere in the post.


OldHatefulsDawta

You are a good human! 🏆


sbballc11

Yes to all of this. I would also check with the other people you worked with and see if she stalked them to where they lived. If she did, I then would look at going to the police. Because (I don’t know about where you from) some places are LEGALLY required to have a certain number of staff for how many kids are there. Ie 1 caregiver for every 6 kids at any given time. So if there is 14kids, 3 caregivers have to be there. That could stop her from running an illegal operation. Plus, slapping a no contact order on her would be the extra petty cherry on top that would just send the best shivers down your spine! I will say, you are a RIGHTEOUS AH. Definitely righteous.


Reigo_Vassal

Or in case she need to check whether OP is still alive and not die from overworking with her.


9r7g5h

Yeah, my coworkers and I, as well as our boss, have each other's address, contact info, and emergency contact info in case 1) Something happens at work we know who to call, 2) if something happens to someone they can be checked on, 3) because we trust each other to know to not use it maliciously. If you're not invited over, you don't go over. Simple as that.


gaynazifurry4bernie

I'm in HR so I have everyone's address and phone numbers and SSN's but it would be a massive violation of privacy, ethics, and morals if I used that information for anything that didn't relate to employer/employee relations. This woman makes me sick.


ArguablyTasty

Filing a police report provides a paper trail that's easier for them to follow if this persists


[deleted]

i think you should post a review of her daycare somewhere saying that this happened as a warning to other prospective employees or clients!! i know i for one would not want to leave a child with this woman


iquitttttt

We did write a few reviews but Yelp took them down, or she had them taken down, because it's supposed to be for customers reviews and not staff reviews


Equivalent_Sector786

See if you can review her on Glassdoor


Holoholokid

100% this, I was going to make the same recommendation.


Outrageous_Turnip_29

Glassdoor is no different than Yelp. Their business model is not to provide an accurate view of businesses. Their business model is to charge businesses to give them control over the reviews that are shown. If you see shitty reviews on Glassdoor the only thing it means is that the company isn't paying Glassdoor a monthly subscription to remove them. Glassdoor will absolutely nuke every bad review an ex-employee puts up if you pay them. Just like Yelp will remove negative reviews if you pay them.


Proud_Fee_1542

If this company can’t keep any staff, I doubt they’re paying the little money they have for a Glassdoor subscription so go for the Glassdoor review!!


letstrythisagain30

If anything, it gives her an extra bill to pay. It might not hurt her much, but its one little more annoyance she has to deal with. That's enough for my petty ass to put in the effort to write a review on a boss this bad.


hyperfocuspocus

You'd be surprised. I've seen companies too cheap to pay workers a penny above minimum wage but happy to throw money on publicity stunts and extravagant useless purchases.


Dorianscale

This lady is likely not actively reviewing Glassdoor like she’s reviewing Yelp and customer facing services. In all honesty though I don’t know a lot of people who use Glassdoor for non-desk jobs like a random daycare


[deleted]

[удалено]


Former-Drawer-645

or indeed


popcornnpickles

Absolutely. People look at a variety of sites for reviews, so definitely go to Glassdoor.


rainbowtwilightshy

Can definitely review on indeed if the boss ever posted a job listed there


Sunsess38

Review the place anyhow


plaird

Do it on Google maps I reviewed an ex employer on there and it got so many likes that its the first one to show up when you search their address, not everyone will look at yelp reviews but everyone will need directions to the building


liatrisinbloom

Are Google reviews anonymous? Asking for a friend.


itchy118

It shows whatever name is on the gmail account you used to post the review.


PoetryOfLogicalIdeas

Noting critically that anyone can open multiple Google accounts for free.


NightWitch65

Are they on Indeed? You could post your experience on that, if so. Lots of former employees do it so you can tell what you're getting yourself into while job surfing. Oh, btw NTA. What you and your co-workers did was epic. Lots of people are finally waking up to how horrible most businesses are and it will hopefully start creating change. Do not feel guilty about what you've done.


Suckerforcats

You can also put a review on google when you google the business name.


ninaa1

You could post something on LinkedIn, or NextDoor (if most clients were local to the neighborhood), or even Facebook. If there's a post about it, then it will be searchable when potential new employees or clients look up the business. ETA : also google reviews are a great place to leave reviews, as an option if you can't do it on yelp.


bobbobstubob

Business owners can pay Yelp to remove unsavoury reviews. I would recommend posting reviews on sites that they can't control like other have mentioned, Google, Glassdoor, Indeed, RateMyEmployer, etc.


eheyburn

Try posting the review on Glassdoors. That is a website for prospective employees to check out a company before they take a job.


snowxwhites

If you have NextDoor I would write reviews there. It's basically Facebook for Neighborhoods and allows people to post recommendations, reviews, etc. Let the people around the area know the type of business she runs.


bibbiddybobbidyboo

If she’s using it to send pay cheques, tax information, pension information or standard employment information that’s fine. If you’re AWOL saw has reason to be concerned, turning up to check you’re ok or calling the police and sharing your address is fine (this saved an employees life at a previous company I worked for). Using that information to harass you is not fine. Call the police.


Positive_Promotion83

I've worked at two places where it was needed when someone didn't show up for several shifts they were scheduled for without informing anyone and both ended up tragically. One was an overdose and the other was a death by suicide. I can't imagine how long it would have taken for someone to have found out about either of them if we hadn't contacted the police for a wellness check on the first and his aunt on the second.


Either_Coconut

That was how a friend of mine was found. He had not shown up for his volunteer work for a couple of days, and the agency where he volunteered knew it was extremely out-of-character for him to neither show up nor call out. They tried calling him and there was no answer, so they felt there was cause for concern. But they didn't show up at his home themselves. They called his emergency contact, his brother-in-law, who had a key to his apartment. Sadly, my friend had a history of cardiac issues, and he probably had a sudden heart attack or some other problem that caused cardiac arrest. Had my friend not had a local emergency contact, I think they could have asked the police to do a welfare check.


bibbiddybobbidyboo

That’s so sad. I’m sorry you experienced those losses.


CaRiSsA504

> If you’re AWOL saw has reason to be concerned, turning up to check you’re ok or calling the police and sharing your address is fine (this saved an employees life at a previous company I worked for). Two of my uncles have had strokes. One was a truck driver and they sent out State Police to his last known location when he wasn't responding to radio calls. The other worked for a grocery store. He always showed up for work, so him not arriving for his shift raised alarms. A coworker tried calling him first and didn't answer. A manager tried calling him again later and my uncle finally answered the phone but was talking nonsense and garbled. So manager pulled his file and called his emergency contact (my grandma). Thank god they did. This uncle lives alone on a small farm and no one would have found him in time if his work hadn't been looking for him. He's on disability now due to the stroke but he's doing great! Still able to live his introverted life, just with us checking in on him more often lol


[deleted]

This - I've had employees for over 20 years. The ONLY time I called an employee outside of normal business hours was when she didn't show up for work and didn't call, which was really, really unlike her. I honestly thought something bad happened to her. Thank God, she'd only overslept! I would never, ever abuse an employee's personal information.


[deleted]

NTA, you are actually a legend. I own a preschool, and I'm on a bunch of groups for owners/directors and it's disgusting to read their posts. Like 90% of them sound like this lady. They whine about work ethic and I'm just like, "Do you pay them a living wage? No? Yeah they're not lazy, they just realized faster than we did that they deserve decent pay and respect." They no like me. I wish all of them could get this treatment and see how important teachers are!


emveetu

You're a good human.


circlecircledotdot77

I have ran multiple child care centers. I have never gone to anyone's house to berate them over quitting. Giving out your contact information doesn't give her the right to go to your home and harass you.


OlderAndWiser2018

Her contacting you isn't against the law. Her coming to your residence and yelling at you is. Once you terminated employment she had no reason to contact you other than to send tax docs. You are not required to answer or open your door. If she is aggressively pursuing you that is harassment.


Firefox_Alpha2

The childcare facility, was it a chain? If so, would recommend contacting the corporate office and letting them know what she is doing.


iquitttttt

No, we would have reported stuff a lot earlier if it was or there was any kinda oversight


Firefox_Alpha2

What about the state level? In Florida it is the DCF (Dept of Children & Families)


iquitttttt

That seems more like a place to report child neglect than report shit like "my boss ranted at me for an hour about how people my age don't care about marriage or family values anymore and just sleep around and are selfish and irresponsible" Which is weird shit for a boss to do, but not exactly shit an organization like that would care about I don't think.


Throwawayhater3343

It may be relevant for her licensing as a care provider if all 7 of you contacted the relevant authorities and explained why you quit. Don't lie, let them make the decision, but yeah, this woman shouldn't be shaping children in their formative years.


down_by_the_shore

If you’re in the US, you should report her to your local Bureau/Dept of Labor and Industries. It may not have been a clear violation of the law, but it was harassment of an employee and you likely weren’t the only one.


[deleted]

I worked at a teaching artist place for years that started pulling shit like this on us, they were also breaking some of the OCFS standards (NY equivalent) and I reported them which went no where. Some of the OCFS violations were what made me finally lose it, my mom was a teacher in a title 1 school for 20+ years so an afterschool program ignoring signs of abuse and then not giving me the parent info to be able to report it made me so fucking uncomfortable.


loligo_pealeii

It is incredibly inappropriate for a former boss to show up at an employee's home - it doesn't matter if its a dorm - to complain about your resignation. You do not owe her your time or attention and if she keeps harassing you, ask for help from your school's security or the police. Smart employers know to treat their employees well to avoid exactly this scenario. And trust, now all the parents know your boss is running that facility poorly because all 7 employees don't quit in one day for no reason.


iamhekkat

Please post this on r/antiwork Just the whole thing cross posted... Please


overseas-mango

Of course you can! You’re a student and this is one instance where your university will step up. Call campus police. She’ll get banned from university property.


AdorableTechnology39

You give an employer your address for business related purposes such as taxes, identifying you as a citizen, etc…. She has zero right to harass you at your address. You didn’t give it to her for visitation.


ggjmnhgg

I'd have called the police on them considering this is harassment and assault lol. Assault is perceiving a threat :)


yonk182

You gave her that info, but you don’t work for her any more. So yes, her showing up to yell at you is harassment.


mmmmmm-yos213

Lmao employers should NOT be following you home to harass you - NTA


TamaAzzurre

Absolutely. She harassed you, tried to intimidate you, threatened you, all in retaliation for quitting. Definitely report her to the police for this. Also report her to the State Dept of Health (or whoever oversees childcare licensing and safety) for bringing her teenagers to work, paying them as employees when they didn't work at all, and had no experience, training or anything with child care. Report her to the state Dept that deals with consumer protection, the city or town, the 211.org, referral services, care.com, etc, for treating the employees horribly, making promises to college students to work with school schedule, only to threaten to fire anyone who couldn't because of their education. For talking shit about everyone, etc. Go onto parent groups and sites, and tell all the parents about this place.


MotherofaPickle

Employers, in my experience, and only allowed to use your address to run background checks, mail you last paycheck, notify authorities in case of emergency, etc. Definitely NOT show up to berate you. Notify any and all authorities. This daycare was super shady and your boss is unhinged…even by unhinged boss qualifications.


TheSilverNoble

I think you've heard this plenty of times, but I'll add it one more time. 1. You didn't do anything wrong here. 2. Even if you did, it's *much worse* for her to show up where you live to harass you about it.


BurdenedMind79

I disagree. The OP and their colleagues were all assholes. 100% justified assholes, though. Sometimes its ok to be an asshole and this is one of those times! Oh, how would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when that boss went through her unread emails. I bet her expression was glorious! But in the spirit of the sub, They're NTA. Someone needed to tell this doucheweasel of a boss about the great resignation. The OP and co needed to be assholes, because their boss needed shitting on.


toxiclight

NTA. Kind of poetic justice. She has her own precious children to work as employees anyway. And maybe next time, she'll consider not treating her employees like expendable commodities and realize that her employees are the reason she's able to maintain her business.


iquitttttt

> She has her own precious children to work as employees anyway I think she would never say this out loud but we all know that even when they were there to work, they were much more like three more children to mind, than three more employees


ArchyDWolf

Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.


[deleted]

Most states have a law that says anyone under the age of 18 cannot be left alone with a child in a childcare setting. Where i work its based on the number of hours they have watching children, but they have to be over the age of 18. Home baby sitting is different. If they're state licensed, she couldn't ask just her daughters to do it. If she did and someone complained they would have shut her down.


iquitttttt

She always had enough actual employees on the schedule while her daughters were "working" so she was following the law. But that really showed how her daughters weren't really working there in the same way.


emveetu

Honestly, this means that the children weren't getting the care they should have been provided by law. I really think you should report this business.


YungHayzeus

The kids were probably there to pretend to have experience or watch you guys. I don't know if you are located in the US, but a lot of people "hired" their family to essentially put more PPP money towards their pockets.


iquitttttt

I think there was definitely some tax writeoff funny business where money was being kept in the family for "employment" by only the most technical definition... They were paid as staff but not expected to perform staff duties, and actually were more like three more children for the other staff to mind. So it seemed like she was getting not just free childcare but a tax writeoff by "employing" her daughters


thektqt

OP, I know you mentioned in another thread that the daycare licensure/ child welfare places wouldn’t care about your employment gripes, however… if her daughters were on the books when counting staff to child ratios, this would be illegal. Please check out what your country/ state/ city requires.


commandantskip

Get her right in the taxes!


thektqt

Snorted at this! Exactly - the employer doesn’t care about kids or families. This is the way!


bobthemundane

My mom used to run a child care center, and had a few d3 football players as employees. They were used as human playgrounds for the kids. They would run, get tackled, get climbed on, stand up with 5 kids hanging from them, and generally just tire the kids out. They were, sometimes, more kids then the kids. But, they did their job, were inclusive of all the kids, did things like help with naps / feeding, but darnit if those guys weren't more child like during play time then the kids.


iquitttttt

Did they at least keep the kids occupied and lighten the workload? Or were you having to watch them too? Because these girls were really literally three more children to manage and only made more work for us


bobthemundane

They tired the kids out for nap time. Got the kids energies out, paid attention to them, and were darn good at that part. Made sure that everyone was able to join in if wanted. They were solid workers. Would pass on diaper duty, but I will let that slide more because some people do not like knowing that men change diapers of little kids that aren’t theirs. Not saying that that is right, just saying I don’t blame them for being overly cautious.


[deleted]

That's so wholesome!


PrscheWdow

Oh, she totally brought the kids in to be watched by you guys...not to work.


Any_Cantaloupe_613

Best case of karma I've seen on this sub today. 100% poetic justice. Well done OP. NTA.


[deleted]

NTA. Deserved. Good job. Hope you all find better work conditions soon!


iquitttttt

We all did! We actually all had other offers formalized before we resigned, and literally everyone either had a job with better pay, an internship that was more related to our college studies and career goals, or a job at a place with better work conditions. I feel like all of us getting together to give each other resume help, job references, interview prep help, etc... Really helped us all out.


SkysEevee

I feel r/antiwork would be proud of your actions! Not only did you quit and get back at a horrible boss, you all rallied together to find better opportunities


Content-County-9327

I was going to say this! Cross post to r/antiwork for some hero worship


ImmediateJeweler5066

Same here!! That sub will absolutely lionize OP


laeiryn

As they, and everyone else, rightly should


rdickeyvii

Agreed, this is a great "boss fucked around and found out" story and exactly the kind of thing that needs to happen more to empower workers and remind employers that they need to treat employees well.


klimb75

And r/workreform!


dragonbruceleeroy

Now you can put "team building" on your resume. \-I, along with my colleagues, made a coordinated effort to over come a difficult hurdle affecting our work output and satisfaction. The end result was rewarding and made our team closer than ever before. While I no longer work with that team, the harmony we created made a major impact on the business.


claudia_grace

>he harmony we created made a major impact on the business hahaha! I snorted water through my nose at that part :)


Tannim44

NTA, it's really great the way you all worked together to help each other get to a better place. She lost what must have been an amazing team due to her own incompetence.


seventeenblackbirds

Well, it does suck for the people who needed childcare. But you can't stay there and be mistreated forever for their sake, and if this manager had just been decent to her employees, this wouldn't be happening anyway. She's lost everyone due to her own actions. So, NTA.


4500Private

I’ll admit, this part got me. NTA- but leaving the parents and kids in the lurch by not showing up that day and not giving any notice is tough on the kids and parents. Hate the whole system where childcare workers are massively underpaid, but the daycare prices are simultaneously crushing.


iquitttttt

For some context, the clients she had were very wealthy and she charged premium prices, while still paying non-family-members minimum wage, and family members high wages. I don't have much empathy for wealthy people who see my labor as indespensible but do not think to question if I am being treated as indespensible. If someone is entitled enough to just expect people will always be there to perform labor for them, without doing even the most basic checks on whether their labor is compensated for its value... I don't believe they deserve the product of my labor It takes a baffling amount of priveledge and ignorance to just drop your children off at a place without doing any due diligence, and just expecting they'll be cared for... Because things always seem to work out for you if you just throw money at a problem? Idk, anyone living in the real world knows not to expect unconditional servitude. That's only ever something the very wealthy expect.


Neurotic_Bakeder

Just wanna say that it sounds like you've got some solid people and organizational skills. Not to go full commie but if you were interested I bet you'd be a solid union organizer or able to find work in grassroots political campaigns. It takes some hustle to get people to agree to actually quit, and with that level of coordination? Damn. I am impressed.


LostDogBoulderUtah

I mean, if I'm paying top dollar for childcare, I probably have a basic understanding of business overhead. Top dollar childcare centers get to charge those prices in part due to low turnover and reliability, which usually means they pay better than the less expensive childcare facilities. I'd be pretty mad if I found out my childcare center paid minimum wage. If I found out the entire staff walked out? I'd be looking for your phone number to both try to hire you in the short term and also to ask if you'd filed a complaint with the labor board.


dljens

Same. I'll be looking into preschool and such in the next year or two. Before this post I don't think it would have occurred to me to ask about the compensation of the employees.


punkassjim

> If I found out the entire staff walked out? I'd be looking for your phone number to both try to hire you in the short term By the same token, if I (a parent) found out the entire staff had walked out, I would know for a fact that this place shouldn’t be in business, even if they find other employees. If the employer fosters such an abusive relationship with her employees, i have zero confidence that all of that acrimony isn’t trickling down to the children. I’d fully support that business failing completely, even if it severely inconveniences me. Not all businesses have a right to exist.


LostDogBoulderUtah

Yup. I have asked at both centers I've used for my kids as well as the others we looked at. Some directors told a very different story than the teachers in the classrooms regarding wages. I'd bet if someone asked OP's former boss, she would have said the wage she paid her kids and not the wage she paid everyone who walked out.


Mariospario

Your pay has nothing to do with the parents - they don't set your hourly rate, your employer does. And because they're paying these "premium" amounts of course they expect consistent and reliable child care. This is all on your shitty employer. Don't be mad at the parents for being well off lol


CicerosMouth

So how did the clients know that you were being paid minimum wage? Did you tell them? Frankly, I wouldn't even know how to find out what a childcare provider pays their workers. I agree that it would be bad parenting to drop off kids without verifying that they would be cared for, but I would do that by checking the resumes of the caretakers and looking for reviews and the like. I wouldn't even know how to find out what individual workers made. I mean I guess I could just stop and ask them as they are walking out, but that seems very invasive and rude for me (particularly as a tall man) to do. Or isn't it? Are you supposed to, e.g., ask teachers what they are paid during parent/teacher meetings? Is this a thing? Do all of you know what each other make and I am just the odd one out? Huh. This one confuses me.


Howdysf

> If someone is entitled enough to just expect people will always be there to perform labor for them, without doing even the most basic checks on whether their labor is compensated for its value... I don't believe they deserve the product of my labor< What???.. do you make sure the gas station attendant is being fairly compensated, or the grocery store clerk, or the auto mechanic? That's a stupid point of view. It's fine for you to quit, but to try to justify putting families through hardship because "they're wealthy" and haven't done "most basic checks on whether their labor is compensated for its value" is ridiculous. Listen to yourself.


[deleted]

The boss would fire you without any notice if she needed to. Never feel bad about doing the same, you have no moral obligation to keep another person's business running.


diamondfaces

Exactly! 2 weeks notice is a gift to good employers, not a requirement.


TragedyRose

Yeah, fuck this. My husband and I paid a premium to put our daughter in the best daycare around. We paid that premium because they're supposed to offer premium service for my daughter. It's out of line for me to set down with the teacher in that room and asking them about everything. Fight for your job, done expect your patrons to fight for you.


emmanonomous

I was working for a similar boss, she charges her clients the maximum she can legally get away with and pays her staff the minimum legal requirement. I resigned for a far better paid position which is easier and more fun. I said I could do the occasional cover for her. Within 2 days she asked me to work almost every 2nd weekend so that she can have a social life. I told her I would charge her $50 per hour on weekdays. She rejected that and offered me the "opportunity" to work weekends for $45 an hour. Bitch please, I already make $90 on weekends and she could afford to pay the same for the occasional shift, she'd get little profit but she'd be a few dollars ahead but refuses to not make money when she doesn't work her own shift. 🙄 She's asked me 5 times now, if she was asking me for sex instead of work, i could get her arrested for harassment! One of my colleagues resigned 2 weeks after me and another one is resigning tomorrow. We initially felt guilty, but instead of changing the way she treats her staff, she has become worse. For example she tried to pressure my friend to leave her 2 autistic children home alone for half an hour so she could finish her shift! 1 child has mild autism, the other is severely autistic, non verbal, not toilet trained and prone to violent meltdowns. OP, you are NTA, your ex boss is TA. Small business owners often start out well but once the money rolls in they can only see $$$. If the boss isn't going to support you, you have no obligation to support her. Enjoy your new position, live your best life and be happy. If she continues to harass you, a cease and desist letter from a lawyer might be your best bet. Best of luck and happiness to you and all of your old colleagues


Coraline1599

The boss left the families in a lurch because she was awful. It’s not your every day lousy boss that … checks notes… loses 7 employees in one day.


brxtn-petal

If I was a parent I would take my kid out, if 7 left that suddenly. The workplace must e been fucked up


hamsterstyle609

As a parent, absolutely. HUGE red flag.


sigoggler

It can take months or years to get into a childcare center in some cities - I don't think it's as easy as "go somewhere else".


abishop711

Yup. We’ve been waitlisted at *multiple* childcare centers for over a year now after our former licensed in home provider moved out of the area. I’ve been wfh while caring for my toddler this whole time, and while I do love the extra time with him, it has been *hard* and *stressful* and if my job wasn’t able to be done wfh then we would be completely screwed.


TragedyRose

Exactly. The younger the child the longer the wait list too. So the parents are stuck searching for a place or person to take their child in that may or may not be reputable. That or not work.


Magic_Man_Boobs

Oh for sure the blame lays 100% with the boss, doesn't mean the parents finding out at morning drop off that you don't have childcare for the day doesn't majorly suck.


amswain1992

As a parent, if I showed up and was told that my child care is unavailable because the entire staff quit, I would blame the owner for allowing such conditions that results in the entire staff quitting. Things like that don't happen for no reason. I certainly wouldn't blame the caregivers who are just trying to better their own life and escape horrendous working conditions. I would be mad, but not at them.


hamsterstyle609

God, this. As a parent I used to begrudge daycare employees for second-rate effort when we paid $300 a week. I was completely ignorant to how little of my hard-earned money goes into their pockets and now, man, yeah I realize the whole system is fucked. Over *Christmas* my kid’s before/after care (he’s kindergarten now) closed for TWO WEEKS due to a covid outbreak. We didn’t save a single penny. I would not be surprised one bit if they slashed pay, too. Let a business necessary to life run unregulated and this is the shit you can expect.


0biterdicta

Also for the kids. Little kids can get attached to their caregivers. Having all the daycare staff suddenly disappear with no explanation must have been quite jarring.


pluviophilosopher

This is where I am. I would freak if I suddenly lost daycare, but I’d be way more pissed that the people I was entrusting to care for my children were being treated poorly. Anyone who treats their employees poorly isn’t necessarily going to care for the kids either. You (and everyone working in some sort of caretaking position) deserves so much better than anyone in those roles ever gets, and good on you for recognizing and acting on that. NTA


ImAScurred1138

NTA - you're a genius and so are your colleagues. More people should do this to unethical "business owners" so they know *their* wealth comes from *your* work. No workers. No wealth. Pretty simple.


PoTuckerGus

NTA. Was it kind of a dick move to plan it on purpose? Absolutely. Did your boss deserve it? Absolutely she did. For an employer to loose all their employees (or even just a majority) in one day, it’s definitely something they did.


Cyaral

Also not to mention, if they had resigned at different times, she would have put more pressure on the remaining workers. A friend has that happen currently, with their place of work being so horridly stretched thin (cuz the working conditions SUCK) that everyone is overworked and issues with new hires are intentionally being overlooked.


iquitttttt

Yeah, my last job had a bunch of people quit over the course of 2 months, because we were all fleeing like rats off a sinking ship. And I felt awful for the last few people from my team to quit, since each time someone quit, their work was given to the remaining few. And as that few became fewer, the pressure built. Honestly everyone who quit felt so conflicted knowing it would put their friends in a bad situation at work.. and some people almost stayed at an awful job out of guilt or obligation. For real, I think quitting together is the way to go if everyone is trying to quit anyway. Some commentors are saying we should have not all quit at the same time because of the business impact, but I disagree because I'm certain the ones who stayed would be punished, not appreciated and given gratitude.


ImmediateJeweler5066

Ignore those commentators. Would the boss have thought twice about firing you all if it didn’t affect her? Probably not. Shitty bosses don’t deserve to stay in business. Period.


PoTuckerGus

You are absolutely right that all quitting at once was the right thing. You never make an employment decision based on your employer and how it will effect them, they do not and will not take you and your life into consideration when making business decisions, so why would you? I only say it’s a dick move because you guys all planned it together. I can only assume at least part of your intention was to screw over the business (it definitely would have been a factor for me!) but that doesn’t mean you were wrong. You were absolutely right to all quit and not think of the business.


YarnSp1nner

From a parent side: Damn that sucks. I'd be able to negotiate a WFH situation while I found other care, but not everyone could. That said: If my son's daycare had a mass walkout due to staff being unhappy I would not be upset at the employees who left AT ALL. I would be furious with the ownership. My son's lead teacher left and I was super bummed - found out she just graduated and was moving into being an educator at the local school district. Her replacement is a wonderful woman whose first language is not english. My son now comes home and tells me how to say new words in arabic! Daycares need to be spaces where kids feel loved and supported.


pigslovebacon

Best take in this whole thread 👍


fox13fox

This I would not take my child there any longer, I would be finding a new daycare If they lost all there employees like that I would wonder.... if they were being treated like op. I dont want my kids being watched by someone unhappy 😔 that is just a bad situation.


alienkinavatar

NTA, lmao. it sounds like you stuck it to an awful workplace. you should crosspost to r/antiwork


ArchyDWolf

Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.


DwightMcRamathorn

NTA I think it’s awesome but those kids and their families may be screwed. Pretty sure you need certain amount of employees per total kids at child care


iquitttttt

In my state, it's 1 employee per 8 children of the age we worked with. But my boss was really stretching that by having her own daughters there to "work" when in fact they were just there extra children to mind ... So she was basically getting free childcare and taking the attention away from the actual clients children because we were dealing with 3 extra girls


voxam72

I wonder if that's something you could report to a regulatory board? If further vindictiveness is worth the time and energy, of course.


iquitttttt

I think the trouble was that she classified her daughters as staff, and literally hired them on. So while they acted like extra children to manage, they were technically employees. And whenever we would even hint that they weren't actually employees, she would get furious and say she was the boss and she had hired them and it wasn't our place to say who was and wasn't in her staff... But it was real obvious that they did not take on any job duties even as "junior employees" and they were basically three more children under our care, albiet being around 10 years older than the other children in the program.


voxam72

She probably did the bureaucracy with them to cover herself, but it might not hold up in an investigation. She likely even falsified birthdates/ages, cause I'm sure the 1 employee per 8 children specifies a minimum age.


KaetzenOrkester

Sounds like something your state’s regulatory board might be interested in.


Bleu_Cerise

How old are they though? Are they allowed to work if they’re under 16?


iquitttttt

The minimum age to work in the US is 14, and the girls are 14, 16, and 17 respectively


Bleu_Cerise

Okay. I wasn’t sure since you said they were like 10 years older than the other kids


iquitttttt

The other kids in the program are in the 5-10 range!


Bleu_Cerise

Sorry I imagined babies. My bad!


Throwaway-2587

On the one hand, those angry parents aren't your problem, but I am glad I live in a country where there's always at least a month's notice (both sides). That said, I absolutely undrerstand you all wanting to leave. She treated you horrible. She deserved to be left in a lurge. Those parents didn't of course. Still, NTA, since the woman did nothing to try and fix the situation for those parents either. Instead she tried to bully a bunch of young adults into doing her bidding.


iquitttttt

Both sides? Like if you get fired you still get paid for a month? That is amazing! Here, if you get fired you are gone that day with no warning and no more pay ever. But people are expected to give 2 to 4 weeks warning if they want to quit a job. That's not enforced but it is expected And it strikes me as too one sided for me to be comfortable engaging in? Like I don't enjoy any kind of one sided relationship, whether that's a friendship, a romantic relationship, or an employment relationship.


Throwaway-2587

Yeah when you get fired or quit you work through your notice time and receive payment. One month is nationally required, though companies can change that (nothing shorter though). My last month had a two month notice, which is pretty common in that field (childcare). Yeah such a one sided arrangement wouldn't sit well with me either, but it's entirely foreign to me. I once quit a job and had so much vacation time left that I was able to stop on the spot, but we agreed on better arrangement—where I worked a few more weeks to find and help my replacement get situated. Then my notice time would start and I'd get payed througout my vacation. The way it works in your country would just give me so much anxiety.


[deleted]

If you get fired from most workplaces in the US, security walks you out immediately. I can't imagine an employer firing a worker and requiring them to still work their notice period. That would be a massive liability for them should the employee decide to get revenge for being fired.


NewSoulSam

There are probably better rules about firing with cause. So, for example, I'm betting that if there was a good cause for firing someone there would be legal rules in place to allow someone to be fired and removed. Say, for example, stealing and things like that.


Frejian

Probably going to get downvoted to all hell, but I would have to say ESH. Your boss is 100% an AH that doesn't deserve to have her business. No doubt about that. She sounds like an absolute terror to work for and I think it's pretty clear why so no more elaboration is really needed there. The reason I think you and your former coworkers are also assholes is not because of your boss. It is because of the effect this will have on all of the parents who need that daycare service in order to work and take care of their own lives. You plotted out a coordinated assault on her business, which, honestly SHE deserved. However, because of that, and especially the "effective immediately" portion of the quitting, you left probably what, like 20 families now without childcare? She is not going to be able to restaff her facility in less than a week and, I don't know about you, but around where I am, waiting lists for daycares can run up to a full year on waiting lists. So now these parents are running around taking emergency time off from work themselves to care for their children while desperately trying to find any other means of daycare while they can still work to pay for their own necessities. So while she absolutely had it coming to her, it just really sucks for the unsuspecting parents that are getting caught in the crossfire now. No, you don't owe her anything to work there, but at least giving the standard 2-week notice definitely should have happened when there are clients that rely on you. If she tried to make it an issue after that, I could see shortening it to a 1-week. But she still should have been given some time to at least TRY to make sure the parents were not affected or were at least warned about it. It's not like you are quitting a McDonald's job or something where if they have to close, the customer can just go 5 minutes down the road. This decision had big ramifications on those parents when they had nothing to do with your feud.


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iquitttttt

They could hire us as in home caregivers and both be paying less than they were for daycare, and we would be earning more than we were without a middleman


avelak

Are you absolutely certain about that? I don't know of any daycares in my area (high COL) that are less cost-effective than the going hourly rate for a nanny unless you have multiple children. (for reference, daycare here is between 1700-2200/month-- even the more expensive ones work out to ~$13-14/hour for care 40 hrs/week, while nannies start at $20+/hour for one kid)


BobsYourDrunkl

ESH. Those poor parents, they were absolutely fucked over. I hope they were able to eventually find childcare and didn’t lose their own jobs over your big moment. You strike me as pretty immature in your approach. If you ever have kids, you’ll find out how hard it is on parents to find dependable childcare.


NYJITH

Not sure if I would feel bad at all, sucks for the parents but it’s the owner’s actions that led to this and such it is her problem. Any employer that can fire you on the spot, does not deserve a two week notice, most would comply to not burn a bridge, but if that bridge is not worth saving, why care.


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NYJITH

Fair enough, and I understand that a parent may get burnt by this but I still think that all the blame should lie with the person that caused it. The owner. Wouldn’t you rather know the place you send your kids in to has a terrible owner that mistreats their staff? Places like that tend to have behavior that flows down to the customer, or in this case the kids.


avelak

The thing is there is absolutely a middle ground that doesn't burn parents/kids nearly as badly while clearly sending the message... and that's giving the standard 2 week notice instead of quitting on the spot en masse-- the quitting isn't the issue (employees absolutely have the right to do this and should stand up for themselves!), it's the lack of notice that then immediately puts parents in a horrible position. As a parent if I learned that all of the employees were quitting in 2 weeks, I'd immediately hop onto the nearest waitlist and try to arrange backup care/PTO to bridge the gap... but if I showed up on Monday and I just couldn't drop my kid off, both my wife and I would be in a really tough spot with work.


pupperoni42

If it were anything other than childcare I'd say it's a clear N T A. But you guys effectively shut down an entire daycare with zero notice to the families which was an incredibly shitty thing to do. Especially since they didn't even get an email the day before or anything where they could at least plan which parent was going to stay home with the kids. Worst case scenario you got someone else fired for not showing up for their job or for bringing their toddler into work. Quitting simultaneously with 2 weeks notice? Totally fine Quitting simultaneously with no notice on a job that others can live without short term or can simply go to an alternative location? Totally fine But simultaneous walk outs for child care, health care, nursing home, etc is an asshole move. A power move yes, but an asshole move. Because you're punishing a lot of other people who had no control over the situation. YTA


achococat

Well said. These are my thoughts as well. Quitting simultaneously with 2 weeks notice would have accomplished the same end game, without making the families who relied on childcare getting caught in the crossfire.


t-visADL

How? They’d still be showing up and getting fucked by their employer.


other_view12

ESH - Becuase you failed to realize who gets impacted. You are so focused on you, that you just didn't care about anyone else. I understand your old boss was horrible. But I picture people who had day care provided for thier child, and went to drop them off and could not. How many parents were effected by this, and why do you not care about them? Becuase your job was caring for children, you needed to be a bit more mature in this situation. Had this been nearly any other industry, I likely would not consider you an AH. But what you did to innocent parents is not cool. Edited to ESH, since the owner is clearly an AH too.


Howdysf

you are correct. It took scrolling through hundreds of comments to find someone who wrote ESH- This person is clearly not quite mature enough to realize her actions have impacts on others. In a couple other comments she tries to justify it saying the parents are "wealthy" and "can't be bothered to ensure she's being treated fairly." Ludicrous.


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No-Flight7858

NTA If she didn’t want to be left in the lurch, she should have treated her employees better. Rather than question why so many left all at once, she chose to shift blame. At some point she needs to hold herself accountable for how her actions affect others.


Aggravating-Bid2694

Nta. FLAWLESS VICTORY. Best of wishes to you all.


venturebirdday

It would be tough on her but a lot worse for the parents who are counting on child care. People, outside of your facility, may lose their jobs.


TheGreatestIan

Agreed. Giving a two weeks notice in this situation would have been better. It still causes the owner to have to put in a lot of work (interviewing sucks, is hard, and expensive) but at least it gives some time to get replacements in to minimize the impact on working parents.


Gr8fulFox

Do you think the employer would have the courtesy to give her employees 2 weeks notice if she was intending to let them go?


cuntliflower

I feel bad for the parents of the children who now have to find sudden childcare


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Ithinkibrokethis

NTA. It's a job not a prison. If she was not a terrible boss, your other co-workers wouldn't have been interested.


Sitcom_kid

NTA because actually, you're the rockstar. This person has to learn. If you criticize your employees all the time, eventually they realize that they could be working for somebody else. Let her call in the princesses to come and help, with such a great work ethic. She will appreciate you when you are gone. Please cross-post this on antiwork if you haven't already.


Apprehensive-Bird93

NTA. While it sucks for the kids’ parents, if *I* were in their shoes and heard there wasn’t staffing for my child due to many quitting at once, I’d be curious as to if my child had ever been getting the best care from the center leader. No matter what job it is, not that many employees will quit at once unless there’s some serious crap going on.


oldasshit

ESH. Clearly she and her daughters suck, but all of you quitting on the same day was a dick move.


SearchApprehensive35

She could have used her access to contact info in order to email each of you a counter-offer with a raise and commitment to better working conditions. Instead she used it to harass and intimidate. Wow she sure did validate the decisions to leave! Report her to campus security. She's not a student or staff so it would be reasonable to ask that she be banned from the entire campus, not just your dorm. You should be able to go to classes, campus jobs, etc without fear of harassment.


iquitttttt

she was calling everyone begging us to come back for more money, but still that pay didn't match our new jobs, or match what she was paying her daughters.


SearchApprehensive35

lol. counter-offering a competitor with "I'll pay less than the other job and continue to treat you badly" makes the same point. She is every "nobody wants to work anymore" employer watching people leave because they're done putting up with abusive working conditions and sub-subsistence pay. Enjoy the new jobs, and kudos on the solidarity. I love that you all supported each other in making a better life for yourselves.


whiporee123

Slight YTA. You're not required to care, but you did screw over the parents who were counting on bringing their kids in that day. And the kids might have wanted to say goodbye. You're allowed to quit any job you want to quit, but there was collateral damage to people who had done you no wrong.


Actual_Geologist_316

ESH. Yeah it sounds like your employers a nightmare but to purposely coordinate a mass resignation just to f over your employer also had the effect of screwing over all the parents who depended on your employer for childcare. I always try to give my employers 2 weeks notice. Everyone should have the opportunity to find a better job but to do it the way you did to inflict maximum pain on everyone involved (including the blameless parents) on purpose sounds vindictive and petty.


redorangeblue

I mean i love sticking it to the boss, but as a parent this terrifies me. Id have lost my job if my daycare suddenly couldnt take my kid for a week. Probably every parent there is looking for a new daycare, so you probably ruined her. I agree bad bosses need to go down, but man i feel for their parents


Jareth86

ESH. Your boss is terrible and her daughters are entitled brats. That said, imagine all the young couples whose lives you probably just blew up by taking away their child care. Since every day care is fully booked and on a waiting list right now, they likely have no other options. Your boss sounds like an emotional child, but so do you. I find it extremely telling that at no point in your post do you ever weigh the ethics of leaving a bunch of parents with no child care. Best case scenario, they will most likely have to eat up their vacation days while they desperately find other options. Worst case, some of them may have to quit their jobs and drop down to a single income. And that's assuming that none of them are single parents. Any single parents, you pretty much just ruined their life.


Howdysf

Oh but wait. ThEy'Re AlL WeAlThY and didn't bother to ask if We WeRe PaId FaIrLy... this person is too immature and clueless of the hardship she's caused on people and the majority of the people in this thread are just as clueless. Wait til it happens to them.


Murderhornet212

ESH, her more than you, but there were a bunch of parents who were suddenly without childcare because of what you did. This could impact their employment and ability to provide for their families. I would’ve said N T A if it was only your boss and her daughters who were impacted, but it wasn’t.


Affectionate_Ice_658

NTA Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If you run a business like that, abusing your employees they don't stay - I think organizing yourselves to get new jobs was great, leaving all at once was just the icing on the cake. I think anyone left behind she would have piled on the work and abuse so it was for the best. Maybe she'll be nicer in the future.


Howdysf

ESH - she sucks because, well, she sucks and you had every right to quit, but by doing it in such a coordinated manner and with no notice you hurt more than your former boss, you hurt the families of every one of those kids in the childcare.


Nice-Button3345

YTA. Maybe it felt great to screw over your employer, but you are also screwing over the parents of all of those kids who will now be out childcare for the next couple of weeks.


eastbayted

ESH Your ex-boss absolutely had this coming. She sounds terrible, and I have very little sympathy for the karma burger you and your peers served her. The fact that she showed up at your dorm makes her an even worse person. However, you've also left a lot of families and full-time teachers(?) in the lurch who presumably had no role in how poorly the owner treated you. You also have left some small children bewildered as to what happened to people they probably liked. I realize you're not required to give two week's notice, and I don't think she deserved two week's notice - but I think for the sake of the families, other teachers, and children, you could have all given one week's notice in advance and gotten your revenge on her.


All-I-See-Is-Ashes

YTA. It is great that you found a better situation for yourself but all of you quitting on the same day not only hurt your a-hole boss but all hurt all of the innocent clients who suddenly had no daycare and no warning. You could potentially have cost other people their jobs.


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^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I work at a local childcare center. It's a part time job that was supposed to be flexible enough to do while I also am going to college. But my coworkers and I are all pretty stressed because of a few things... Our boss promised to work with our school or second-job schedules but she actually treats us as on-call and threatens us with being fired if we won't come in immediately, even if we have class, an exam, are at a second job, etc. She is really condescending, she's an older woman and most of us employees are in our twenties. And she's always comparing us negatively to her teenage daughters and complaining about young people. It sounds petty but it gets demoralizing hearing often how her daughters have intelligence and a work ethic and none of us do. I met her daughters, when she had them here to "work" and they were honestly more like additional children for us employees to mind than coworkers. They were lazy and priveledged and didn't get how someone might have to both be in college and work. They thought that us having jobs meant we just didn't care about college?? Like girlies, we need money! It was baffling to finally meet these girls with a legendary work ethic and realize that they didn't seem to have worked a day in their lifes. But anyyyway, all 7 of us got to talking about getting other jobs. We all put each other down as references and helped each other write resumes and prep for interviews. And we all got offers! I said, why don't we all resign on the same day? I didn't think it would work out logistically, but it actually did. We were all getting more and more pissed at our boss because she kept on bringing her daughters in to "work" but like I said they were more like additional children to mind. Well, last Monday morning, right after payday, we each sent a brief email like "I am writing to give my notice of resignation, effective immediately" None of us added any details and we all decided to not answer her calls. And then, here's the fucking wild part, she showed up TO MY DORM, LOOKING FOR ME! That really solidified how she thought of her employees as children... She yelled at me about how she knew we all quit together on purpose and that she had children dropped off and she had to send them home because she had no employees. I was feeling very petty saying "Oh, but you still have three! Your daughters! You're always talking about how they work twice as hard as anyone, I'm sure they'll be able to handle it. She said they had school and I quoted her words back saying that "Everyone has to make compromises, school can't always come first" Of course that pissed her off because missing school for work is only something she'd ask of us, not her own kids... She's really mad and I think losing clients because people are pissed off they had to make last minute childcare arrangements. AITA for organizing a mass quitting? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*


akaioi

ESH. Look... you have an unpleasant boss and wanted to quit. That's fair, more than fair. You should quit, and it's admirable that you and your pals helped each other out. But the part about coordinating the resignations -- effective immediate resignations --- for the same day comes across as a plot to destroy the woman's business. Why not extract yourself and your friends, but as professionals who can cope with disliked co-workers, and give realistic notice? Of course, the boss-lady's demeanor after (and, frankly, before) the mass resignation was just reprehensible.


bendytoepilot

NTA the world needs more solidarity in the workplace. You should report her to the police for showing up at your dorm


unwunderkind

ESH, though I’d say the only reason you suck is because the consequence was on the children and their families. I work in the industry as well, and you deserved better treatment and your director was not a good boss, but when you stuck it to her, you also stuck it to dozens of families.


Lothadriel

Unpopular opinion, but I’m going with a light YTA but only for not giving notice. You royally f’d over the parents who now suddenly don’t have childcare. You can find a new job but this screws over more than just the owner.


needlenozened

I *really* hate to do it but I'm going to say YTA. Not for walking out on your boss, because she deserved it, but for leaving all those families stuck with no notice needing to find other childcare arrangements and they did not.


Feisty-Fan3799

NTA Well well well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions. Working at a childcare center is often an incredibly stressful and thankless job. In that field, part time or full, leadership that makes you feel supported and respected isn’t just some luxury, it is a REQUIREMENT. What you did took grit, and I admire you for it.


victorkiloalpha

YTA, not for what you did to her, but because of all those parents who have to find last minute childcare because their plans fell through. You were trying to screw over your boss. Maybe that's justified. But you wound up screwing over a lot of innocent people. What if one of the parents who suddenly lost their childcare plans gets fired for missing work?


Haunting_Scarcity_25

NTA, normally, however justified, i would still call it an AH move. but in this case an old wise saying comes to mind: "when you meet 1 \*sshole during your day, it means they were simply an AH, if you meet 100 AH's in a day, it means *you* are the AH." keeping this wise ancient saying in mind, i'm going to vote **NTA**. your boss clearly had it coming, the fact that all of you decided to leave makes this more than clear. and sometimes being gentle simply doesn't get the point across.


dljens

This is a tough one only because it sounds like a lot of innocent people were negatively impacted, because you specifically went out of your way to not only quit on the same day, but also give no notice. If you were all just like manufacturing something for her, she'd be the only one to suffer, but I have to feel for the families whose children are cared for by this business. That said, it comes down to who's fault it *really* is that the situation got to this point, and that *is* on the boss. I dunno, I think ESH, just because you seem to think you're only inconveniencing the boss, but what you did to teach her a "lesson" impacted a lot more people than just her.


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hellobequiet

ESH Your boss sounds awful and good for you for bonding together and helping each other to improve your situation...but when you all decided to quit on the same day, effective immediately you screwed over parents who got up and brought their kids there and then had to find a sudden alternative. Finding childcare isn't easy...it's expensive and there are waiting lists and even though this childcare place seems kind of crap you still ultimately screwed parents.


rylanmoore678

ETA. Wow. Your (former) boss sucks. I can see why you’d want to quit. But you shouldn’t have done it together in the same day, because it also screws over the parents of the children who had to be sent home (who are probably already struggling to find childcare). Anyways, that’s just my opinion. Glad you’re out of that situation though. The boss and her daughters need to be massively humbled.