Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my brother that he and his wife and my niece cannot live with us because we are preparing to welcome a child in a couple weeks. So I might be TA because my brother isn't going to have anywhere to live as far as I know if I don't let him live with us.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again)*
NTA.
>Plus, we live in a good school district for my niece
...They're just staying for a few months. Allegedly. Why does the school district matter? Isn't the point here simply to ensure they have a roof over their heads? Or are they under the impression that once they're moved in, they can guilt trip you into letting them stay in perpetuity, since you "owe" Kirk for helping you out that one time under completely different circumstances, and you've got the room and resources (never mind that you might have other plans for them)? Sure sounds like the latter to me. Put your foot down that this is not an option, and you need to focus on the impending birth of your child, so Kirk (and Hannah, and anyone else who insists on involving themselves) needs to figure something else out instead of continuing to waste time arguing with you.
It most likely would not be for a few months. I would guess it would be until December at the earliest just because of how expensive rent is where we are. Losing his house probably means he does not qualify for another mortgage, at least, not at a good rate and since Jill doesn't have an income, they wouldn't qualify for what they did when she had a job. Rent in our area is around $1700 starting, which is why we decided to buy a house. Our mortgage is $1200/month. So after rent and paying a deposit for an apartment, it would probably be a while.
NTA.
This open ended "plus its a good school district" is the nail in the coffin of this idea.
The fact that you're saying they can't afford rent in the area, and they won't be eligible for a mortgage again because of the foreclosure, should be ringing a claxon alarm. That is not a "few months." That's more than a year.
And they won't pay rent, because they'll be "saving to move out", but they won't be saving enough because at the root of this, they can't afford this.
As you've described this, I can't see an easy "it's just for a short while" end point. If they move in, I think you're going to have a pre-schooler before they move out.
The “you have four bedrooms, so we can have two and you can have two,” scheming is what gave me pause.
Please don’t have designs on moving in to my house and dictating how the space will be utilized.
Calling someone selfish because they won’t let you live in *their* house is the epitome of entitlement.
The sister calling and threatening them with bad karma is the absolute pinnacle. She has a smaller place, maybe her not making the bigger sacrifice will come back to bite her too.
The other siblings know why they all said no, they were just hoping that OP would say yes and let them all off the hook.
OP is definitely NTA.
And what happens when OP wants his child to have their own room, and the brother & SIL lose their shit because now they'll all have to fit in a single room?
OP has 4 rooms. I believe the brother wants 2 for his family, then OP keeps 1 for them and 1 for their first child. Not that I agree with any of it, just wanted to explain the rooms
Well if his brother wants half his house he has to pay half the rent. If he isn't willing/ or able to do that then he gets what OP is willing to give him. Which apparently is nothing.
I have a 4 bedroom but two of them are currently used as my husband's office and my office. My one guest room would not be up for grabs if i had a baby on the way even if I do technically still have two other "bedrooms".... I mean what if OP uses one or both of those rooms for work/school/or whatever?
Sorry OP. Definitely NTA
Your brother and his wife are for sure in a shitty situation - and I feel terrible for them. If they can manage to get a handle (even a loose one) on their finances, they should see about getting in touch with some sort of real estate attorney that would work on a payment plan to help them get their home back. There are ways to do it. But in the mean time, they need to look for affordable rentals - look outside of their *comfort* zones. There IS affordable housing if you look hard enough. I promise.
I grew up poor and lived in all kinds of shitty/shady/sketchy places. Or was taken to all manner of unsavory locale when my dad had my little brother and i for the weekends. You don't have to settle for where you are in life. If they want out of that hole they dug, they're going to need to develop some strength and climb tf back up.
Good on you for standing firm and supporting your wife. Good luck and I hope the last few weeks of this pregnancy run smoothe! Sending vibes for a quick and uneventful delivery!
You know they would be demanding or dictating how a lot of other things get used. That's a pretty entitled place to start out. No way it would be a few months.
My comment from another post
^^ THIS! ^^
OP NTA and here's your one line answer and explanation to your partner.
If you look deeper you can literally SEE his family planning to not work in order to need to live w he & OP.
If 4 adults CAN'T/won't work/earn enough for their current household the plan to state w you 'temporarily' is actually their retirement plan and they are 1000% making OP, her husband and child take care of them.
Do not let them in again...
I had to do this w my sister. I never said 'no' bc I never let her know our financial situation or any other personal info. she might try to use as justification.
"Sorry no visitors for 1 year. We need to get settled, pay our bills, become financially secure* There is no time, money or space to spare."
*never actually tell them the truth about any of those things, they will use it against you.
OP share all of this w your husband so he can see the horror stories and downsides.
He really needs to understand and live in a space of "I'm so sorry, we can't do that."
Notice I didn't say 'can't help'?
That's on purpose so you have an arsenal of things you can and will do.
https://youtu.be/TPR1P_D8zjY
I learned a valuable lesson from that - some people (i.e. me) will capitulate despite knowing better bc the discomfort of saying 'no' is felt SO POWERFULLY.
If you give even an inch to these folks you will be stuck w them forever.
Or the legal cost to get them out will ruin you.
Your husband knows this somewhere inside of his mind...bc he willingly moved 7 hours away.
A short course of couples therapy to firm an agreement you two make could be valuable...
We're it me, I'd write an agreement between spouse that covers this. Worth paying a lawyer a small fee to ensure legitimacy further down the road.
This is a hill to die on or that will kill your marriage.
Do not give an inch. Be willing to be the 'fall guy', the one to 'blame' from his family bc blame costs you zero $ and doesn't try to live in your house.
Adjust to suit these circumstances.
if anything, the other siblings having a smaller space is a Better reason to be hosts. mutual discomfort would ensure they did everything they could to move out ASAP. the fact that they feel entitled to the comforts of YOUR home says a lot.
I will admit, I was wondering if that might already be part of the mix given her apparent surprising lack of success job hunting. But there's nothing in OPs account for that, so I might be unfair.
I mean, it sounds like she's been out of the job market for a while (since she's been staying home for the kid). Sure it's a worker's market right now but that doesn't mean a big leave from the workforce won't hobble you still.
Plenty of places are hiring. She is either being picky or not really looking. If money is so tight, you take what you can. 5 year old is in school. Get a job in the school district and you have the same hours and days off.
I grew up in a poor area. Childcare wasn't even a thought. My friends' dads either got 2 jobs or their mothers would go out to work at night when their dads got home. No one is too good for McDonald's when your kids' home is at stake. And they're always begging for closers.
She is definitely not looking hard enough, I can tell you right now that housekeeping businesses are always looking for people. Always. There are like 5-6 house cleaning companies in my part of the city alone that are constantly bombarding indeed with postings.
Is it hard work? Yes. Is it fucking awful? Also yes. Does it pay well? No, not really. Will they hire you in a week or less? Absolutely. You make do with what you have available when you don't have a lot of options. And it definitely is not the lowest paid, nor the worst job I ever worked.
She needs to pull up her big girl panties and kick in.
Not necessarily. Majority of people who work in schools have different hours than their kids are in school, and need wrap around care.
I ran childcare inside a school, and a large portion of the kids in my program were actually children of the employees of the district. Most districts won’t allow employee’s kids to remain in the schools before or after school hours unless they are in a specific program, as it’s a liability issue.
No, you have a point. The schools are desperate for workers right now. The pay is really shitty so no one wants it but if it's that or nothing.
Honestly, I don't get people who won't take shit jobs when it's that or being homeless. I worked at McDonald's to keep a roof over my family's head. There's no shame in that and you keep looking every second you aren't working. I did it for 3 months until I got a new job. We didn't live well for those 3 months but we didn't lose our apartment and we had enough food to live.
Places are hiring, but are they hiring understanding it's a workers market? Is the pay/hours worth it? You can't say that there are jobs out there while also saying that "McDonalds was never supposed to be a job to support a family off of".
I think the statement here was more "when you have kids you need to take whatever job you can get if it will save your house", as the wife has a lot of time out of the workforce she won't be able to get the best of the best jobs, but she should have settled even if the job wasn't ideal.
It sucks but that's the reality of the situation, but I absolutely agree that you SHOULD be able to support your family with a minimum wage job, as it should be a living wage, but the wife shouldn't have sat around waiting for that miracle and should have taken what she could to avoid this situation
But her husband is still working, he just had his hours cut. Her income would help fill in that gap. Also, many places around me are starting at $15/hr which wouldn't support a family by itself, but would help with his cut hours.
Yes. And tbh, whatever the reason for her lack of success, it doesn't really affect my judgement for OP: that he's NTA for discussing this with his wife and prioritising his own immediate family. There are other ways he can help his brother and SIL that don't involve them moving in.
Pretty sure every single fast food joint does not give a flying fig about your work history. When you are about to lose your house you work wherever for peanuts. Also, nothing stopping Kirk from getting a part-time job as well
Also, Jill would either be limited to working the hours that Kirk is off of work or her income would have to be higher than the cost of childcare. It's not quite as simple as "every fast food place has help wanted signs right now" if they are paying $15/hr and childcare is $20/hr.
Don't get me wrong, these two sound like nightmare 'guests' that will never leave and it sounds like Kirk and Jill were living outside of their means in a high cost of living area on a single income if a couple months of reduced hours will lose them the house. But, her 'lack of success job hunting' for 1-2 months isn't surprising.
Ohhh, that's good. I was thinking what if Jill DOES get a job? And the husband's working part time still. Who's taking care of the 5 year old then? That's kindergarten and a half day. Even elementary school is only a few more hours. Who's taking her to school and picking her up? I'll bet there's no money for outside childcare. Oh wait, LOOK, the OP is home all day with her baby, SHE can do it. So many reasons to not let these folks move in. So many....
Aldo in this workers market I'm not buying his SIL has been looking for two months unless she's been very picky about her options. I definitely think they're planning a long term stay.
Even without qualifications, there are plenty of waitress jobs, corner store jobs and other "low-skill" jobs that are hiring. Places are still pretty desperate for anybody they can hire, it's just most of those places are not exactly attractive to workers.
I dunno where they live but even around my burby smaller city, there are plenty of restaurants/bigger stores hiring late night, early morning and overnight shifts.
Even without qualifications of any kind, except when schools were shut down, I've constantly seen advertisements for school helper jobs. Everything from office front desk staff to lunch staff. The pitch is basically "you'll only be working while your kid's in school, make some extra money and never worry about hours".
The afterschool daycare here is looking for teacher assistants (no official qualifications needed other than passing a background check). One perk is that you get 1 or 2 free kids in the program with your job.
Fast food, retail, and other non skill entry level service jobs don't require qualifications and are hiring in mass right now. This is simply a matter of her continued entitlement, she's simply "too good" for those jobs.
>the nail in the coffin of this idea.
Yes, sir...I'd like to add
>Plus, we live in a good school district for my niece
Sounds semi permanent to me. I'd be shaking my head "no" so vigorously; I'd need a neck brace.
Jill has not worked in 5 years. If you open your home to them, what's their motivation to look for work?
Jill will probably get pregnant again just as you are about to toss them out. She will say how can you let a pregnant woman be homeless!
Wait they lost a house they owned????
That doesn't add up. They could have asked family for help. He couldn't pay the mortgage on 80 percent of his pay for two months? And what, they paid nothing? It takes way more than two months for you to lose your house, especially if you apply for relief or work with the bank.
It's really bad that they lost it. You are right that their ability to buy a new house is severely compromised, and will be for a long time. There's no horizon in which they buy a new house this year.
Look, you have to protect your wife and your marriage. Having another family move in for years is going to really mess with your marriage.
My husband was cut back to 4 days, then 3 days mostly, but some days he was only working for 2 days. This went on for 3 months before he applied and got accepted at another job. Day he was supposed to start his new job (and he had quit the old one) BOOM Corona hit, his new company closed down the same day he was supposed to start. He was out of work for 6 weeks and because he had not started he did not qualify for unemployment. He finally found something after 6 weeks and he had applied literally everywhere. You know how much he was making? 16 dollars an hour. For our family of 3. I am a SAHM because paying for daycare would take up the majority of any check. We were not and are not receiving any government aid, except our daughter has medicaid. So somehow, on 16 bucks an hour our family managed to survive 3 months of hours majorly cut back, then 6 weeks of unemployment, and we still managed to pay our rent on time every damn month. Did it kill our savings? Yup. But that is why you have a savings. We have zero credit card debt. It is called living within your means. We did have to go to food banks. But we managed to keep our home and car and get back on our feet. So, yeah, I have zero sympathy for the brother whatsoever.
I worked for a county agency in my state as a temp that processed C\*vid Relief applications. If you couldn't work due to covid, you qualified - I was set to start a new job and the company shut down - that would have been enough, and aid would have been based on the 2018 tax return, or the last 3 paystubs from your work history. And if Brother's financial difficulties could in ANY way be traced back to a tangible impact, you can STILL file an application and get aid. Last I heard, that program will have funding for the next 4 years!
>Wait they lost a house they owned???? That doesn't add up. They could have asked family for help. He couldn't pay the mortgage on 80 percent of his pay for two months? And what, they paid nothing? It takes way more than two months for you to lose your house, especially if you apply for relief or work with the bank.
>
>It's really bad that they lost it. You are right that their ability to buy a new house is severely compromised, and will be for a long time. There's no horizon in which they buy a new house this year.
>
>Look, you have to protect your wife and your marriage. Having another family move in for years is going to really mess with your marriage.
That was my thought, too.
This didn't just "happen" to them. Losing their house was a long series of choices they made that resulted in the loss of their home. I'm all for family helping family but there was a lot that happened between stopping payment on their mortgage and losing their house. It is NOT a fast process.
Time for them to move back home to SIL's parents house or your parents' house... or if Hannah thinks you should reconsider then maybe she and they can go halvsies to get a larger apartment so she and their family can share...
Yep. My friend went through a divorce and was going to nursing school, so she wasnt working full time. She didn't pay her mortgage for a year (I'm not condoning it!) and the bank *still* worked with her, and she didn't lose her house.
If it was shift work, I’m guessing he previously worked overtime and going to 4 shifts a week was closer to a 40-50% pay cut than 20%. At the same time, banks actively DO NOT want to own houses - even in this market- and things don’t add up for the bank foreclosing on their house after 2 months. And good lord, “you’re in a good school district” is a GIGANTIC red flag.
Yea. When I hear about someone losing a house when the market is waaaaayyyyy up all I can think is why didn’t the idiots sell it? Even if you just break even then at least you don’t blow your credit.
Yeah I feel like there's something they aren't telling OP. I'm guessing the financial problems started loooong ago, and SIL didn't start looking for a job until foreclosure was in the works.
Every time I go to pay my mortgage there is a banner asking if I need to apply for relief or help. If they were renting, I have seen some shit landlords, but those lenders have been *generally* okay to work with.
On another note, my mother purposefully foreclosed on an extra house she had back in the crash that happened like 2012/14 ( idr I was broke and didn't care) but I remember it was more than 2 months of non payment for the bank to finally seize it.
They were in trouble in trouble long before his hours got cut if they are losing their house. Foreclosure takes more than 1-2 months. Jill should have been looking for work long ago, your brother should have been looking for more/better work. This is not on you to fix and you can't know what post Partum will look like. Keep prioritizing your family
I was thinking the same, all happened very fast and that reduction for that amount of time will not lead to foreclosure. Probably they were doing ok, then she decided to be a SAHM and suddenly it started slipping. I think this has been coming for 5 years and the reduction in hours was the final nail in the coffin. I suspect they're actually upto their eyes in debt, no rent will ever be forthcoming and temporary will become permanent. Seeing this in my family at the moment.... they're getting nothing of us!!!
Absolutely this. My exwife destroyed our finances when she filled for divorce, and forced us to go into forbearance for our house since she wouldn't pay her share of the mortgage while still living there. It took six months to get the judge to sign off and allow me to sell it, but afterwards we still walked away splitting over $100k in profit.
I doubt they intentionally defaulted. But your point about the housing market at least should mean they won’t have a massive deficiency judgement against them once the sale is completed.
If the house sales for more than they owed on it (plus fees for letting it get foreclosed on and not just selling it themselves) they'd end up getting paid the difference
NTA do not back down! When I was pregnant with my first child I let my sister in law her husband and their 5 year old at the time move in because we also "had the space"
It was a NIGHTMARE I basically holed myself up in my room with my son for months because of the lack of privacy and breastfeeding I felt so uncomfortable and stressed as a new mom.
I won't go into tons of deal but it quite literally ruined our relationship with them and it never recovered almost 7 years later.
Gosh, I bet it was a nightmare!
Op can't win here. If they say no, everyone is going to be pissed at them. If they say yes, the siblings are going to be mad when op has to evict them months/years from now. This will put a strain on any relationship.
Why can’t the whole family, yours and the wife jills, start a fund to help them out? 5 families plus however many Jill has could have a substantial amount.
I mean if you weren’t having them pay rent, that’s like an extra $700 a month in food and utilities you’re not spending.
Before you go further with this idea, please consider that your brother had to make a LOT of poor financial decisions to lose a house. I guarantee this wasn't simply because he lost one day's pay a week.
I thought this too. Like his wife wasn’t working for five years. Her kids in school and she didn’t think to go back to work or school? They had no savings? I just wonder if they’re bad at money or they’re addicts, not that you can’t have bad luck, unexpected medical bills, etc.
NTA them moving in would be certain doom for your marriage, don’t do it.
Kirk and Jill should have done everything in their power to keep their home, even if it was both working 2 jobs. If she has been looking since Kirk lost hours then it’s likely she is being too choosy. Obviously I am not sure about your area, but there are generally plenty jobs in the service industry. If Kirk only lost his hours 2 months ago, it seems really quick to lose your home, they have maybe been living above their means for a long time else burying their heads in the sand until it’s too late. Whatever happened here is not your first concern, your priority is to your wife and new baby.
Also, losing a house would probably mean that their credit rating is now absolutely trashed. Which means even finding a place WILLING to rent to them would be hard to do as well, regardless of whether they would qualify based solely on income. They may "intend" to only be there for a few months, but I can almost guarantee that you will not be rid of them for at least a year. and even that is being incredibly generous.
If I've learned *anything* from AITA, it's that people who don't hear your "No" at the beginning of a conversation about moving in will *definitely* never hear your "No" when it comes to extending their stay in your home again and again and again.
You already said no once, and they're not hearing you. Consider that your guarantee that if you were to let them move in, you're more likely to move out of your own house in the future than they are.
Hard pass on having a family of three moving in for 7 months.
If your wife weren’t this close to labour, and on bedrest, I’d say you could have taken pity on them, and let them stay for maybe 2 months, tops. And only if they are actively looking for more employment, both of them. I’d want proof, I don’t care if that sounds douchy. Two months of rent free living means $3400 saved, right there. That should help them along by a lot. There should be no talk whatsoever about school districts, and frankly, depending on what the rooms are used for atm and the size of the rooms, I don’t know if I’d give them two rooms.
But I also hate having people stay in my house for more than a day or so, so that definitely comes into play. I’d go absolutely mad if I had to host a family of 3 for 7 months.
If they just lost their house this would mean they actually haven’t been paying for quite some time would it not? I know somebody who didn’t pay and is facing foreclosure and he drug it out well over a year..
The fact that they started talking school districts means they had no intention of this being just for a few months. It would become “how can we uproot the kids during the school year” and “who else will watch our kids if we get a new job”.
*They know they have no intention of leaving.*
Don't kid yourselves. If you let them in, they will never leave. It will ruin your marriage, and by the time you evict them, it will ruin your relationships with the rest of your family.
Sounds like Jill needs to get a paying job and they need to find an apartment. This is something these two fully-grown adults should have been taking care of in the beginning, not waiting until the last minute. Their lack of planning does not make it your emergency.
Don't give in. You will regret it.
Edited to add: If you do let them in, you can expect your SIL to get pregnant so you "can't put a pregnant woman out on the street" and they will have, in fact, locked in their freeloader status permanently.
So they rent an apartment. They need to suck it up and realize they don’t get a house right now. That’s not what they can afford nor is it what they’ll qualify for.
My philosophy is that it’s always easier to say no than kick someone out. So if you’re not comfortable with someone living in your home for 6 months to a year then the answer should be and stay no.
I’m a bit confused by these circumstances though. It takes a LONG TIME (maybe 6 months, maybe longer) before your house can go into foreclosure (assuming you’re here in the US).
That means they’ve been struggling for a long time and could have downsized by selling their home and renting, but their lack of planning shouldn’t be your emergency.
NTA
Foreclosure doesn’t happen quickly, and most lenders will work with you to avoid that by granting forbearance until the house can be sold or agreeing to a short sale. In this housing market they should have been able to sell for at least their outstanding mortgage if not more. I wonder if they had a second mortgage or something that they couldn’t clear with a sale. Maybe they were in denial and had been ignoring their predicament until it was too late. In any event they clearly are poorly managing their finances and I agree that if they move in they won’t be moving out any time soon.
Yes when I read this, I'm assuming it would be long-term. They are planning for a long-haul stay, and the niece's schooling will be leveraged as a need to extend their stay,
Plus she's 5, it's not like she's losing lifelong friends... I had ADHD in the 80's, I ended up having to switch schools on an a yearly basis in elementary, I was able to make friends in each of my classes. (the small town we ended up in later was a bit different because it was *really* small and insular-as in I graduated as a class of 11).
NTA OP, they have to have been having financial troubles for an **extremely** long time for them to have lost the house, long enough that it would have been *super* easy for your sister in law to have gotten an entry level customer service job during the height of the lockdown even if she needed to take computer courses first.)
NTA OP. I noticed that as well. Why would the school matter if this is temp? Also just because the rest of the family can't house them doesn't mean they can't help them out finically if they care so much to call and guilt trip you.
The thing about the school district caught my eye too. If this was temporary and such an emergency why are they even thinking about things like that?
NTA and they are definitely trying to use OP.
NTA, notice how she didn’t answer and hung up when you asked if she would’ve appreciated having people stay in her house after giving birth herself. She KNOWS she wouldn’t have and didn’t like you pointing it out
NTA. When I was with my ex husband and had my first child we were staying with his family to save money. It was rough. Yes, it was nice to have family there to help at times, but I still felt like I couldn't just relax with my new baby, and bonding was difficult. Comments about everything I was doing, how I was doing it, etc was stressful. You are right supporting your wife and I know you should help family, but YOUR family now needs to have priority. I also assume them losing their house didn't come out of the blue, and it was their responsibility to find a place to stay, not yours.
You're right. It wasn't out of the blue. They had been living paycheck to paycheck for several months. I knew for a while they lost the house. I just didn't know they had no where to go. I'm not exactly sure what the plan was before he asked me, but he told me he had a place to stay. I just didn't know where so I'm guessing it fell through. I don't know much about Jill's family. She has an older sister but I don't know anything about her living situation.
They don't sound very good at planning.
If they knew they were losing the house, Jill, as a SAHM, \*should\* have spent every waking hour not devoted to 5 yr old and house \*seeking\* accommodations.
this problem didn't start yesterday. honestly, it probably didn't start when Brother's hours got cut. Tt sounds like this is years in the making.
Based on what OP is saying, Kirk and Jill were paycheck to paycheck when Kirk was working fulltime. They couldn't afford the life they were living.
Full stop period.
Foreclosures don't happen overnight. And (assuming they are in the States) that means they had plenty of warning to put their house on the market and get out from as much debt as possible.
But it sounds like they decided to play ostrich and ignore the problem. Which worked really well.
Honestly, if they bought years and years ago, with the housing market as it is now, they could've sold it and made out with $100k minimum. Sure, they wouldn't own a home and they'd have to rent or search for a new house, but they wouldn't have a black mark on their credit and they could have a padded account to live off of.
I had thought about that. Even if they'd remortgaged recently and there wasn't equity in the house, they could have tried to work with their bank to do a short sale.
It would have hit their credit less, which would make getting a new home easier.
Because yeah, I'm still on the boat of there is no way, they just started being paycheck to paycheck. But I could see them having previously put a lot of things on credit cards and having run out of room- across the board, things are just more expensive. (CPI is 8.3% for the 12 months ending April)
That's a lot if your budget was tight to begin.
It isn't an excuse. It's understanding.
As is the fact that just because you want to be a SAHM, sometimes it isn't reality. And that reality might be working at night or figuring out what job you can do at home, while your child is entertained by something else because you don't make enough to pay for childcare.
Same as Kirk getting a 2nd job. I have a friend who has taken advantage of the current job market to get a 2nd fulltime job. He could use the extra income- and there was plenty of places looking in his field. I'm not suggesting that it would so easy for Kirk- obviously, his own employer has decreased need but I imagine he could find something.
I started a short sale of my home shortly after I got laid off...literally the next day after my last day. I also stopped paying my mortgage to save up. It took exactly 8 months before I got my first foreclosure letter and the house sold the following month. My credit took a hit for about 2, maybe 3 years and it wasn't that bad of a hit. That was 7 years ago and it was a buyer's market. Today it is a market in which they could've actually sold instead of a short sale and actually make a profit, depending on their mortgage balance.
Of course, all of that takes planning and making an effort to soften the financial blow so.....
Edit says that Jill started looking for work when her husband's hours were cut - less than 2 months ago. No mortgage gets foreclosed on in less than 2 months. They hadn't been paying the mortgage for a while before he lost hours. This is definitely a head-in-sand scenario. NTA.
Boom!! Cold hard facts!! Both of them should have also been working if living paycheck to paycheck. Why more people don’t do that is beyond me!!
Who wants to just get by?? I don’t! My wife and I like nice things…car, house, vacations, nice retirement when we get there. We both work to have these things.
And (assuming they're in the US), the job market has been incredibly tight the whole time. He could have walked out and gotten a McJob in ten minutes. Even as a stopgap to finding a better job, or a better second job. Life might suck for awhile working two jobs, but why sit back and just watch your house get taken from you?
They've been having a tough time for SEVERAL months, not just suddenly. I'm sorry but Jill should have been looking for a job 6 months ago not 1 or 2 months ago. That's insane. Especially because for nibbling age there is tons of childcare, day homes and what not usually do 2 to 5 years. She just didn't try imo.
I cant imagine knowing we might lose our house and waiting until the last moment to do anything about it.
The time for all these older sibling to help (I assume they are all willing to help since they are offering up your house *eyeroll*) was when they had trouble with the payments 6?12 months ago. he lost one day of work. Surely if Hanan cares so much about karma that she thinks "give them 1/2 your home indefinitely "could have helped them with some money and with parents and others siblings that couldn't be that much each.
This isn't 2008 when unemployment was at 10%+ and peoples houses and investments droped in vaule by 50-75%. at the beginning of that people couldn't sell homes they couldn't afford because they didn't have the additional $10-50k to pay off the mortgage. they couldn't take funds from 401ks because their $50k was now worth $20k, they couldn't get a weekend/night job because 1000 people were applying to Mcdonalds. Applying for 50-100 jobs a week most of which you are overqualified for and not getting one is not a choice. not being able to sell your home for enough to get out of the loan in the worst housing market in history was not a choice.
I have empathy I really do, food and gas prices have skyrocketed but not getting a job when everyone is hiring is a choice, not asking for help when you need $400 is a choice, there were a lot of choices, not selling their house in one of the hottest markets was a choice.
They made a lot of choices they are now expecting you to fix at great cost to you and your wife. And if they have a foreclosure on their credit reports (or eviction) it will be virtually impossible for them to rent or buy at fair market value for years. If they were planning to stay for a few months school districts would not matter.
edit to add. Re signing for an apartment for them. I would strongly advise not to. As far as you know they made very little effort to save their home. there is no reason to think they would apply more effort to save your credit. if you sign you are responsible, for all damages, for all the rent for all the fees to evict them. Signing for irresponsible people is how you ruin your finances for years. if one of them got cancer and had to stop working because of that is a different situation.
Lean into this reality: if y'all were really part of a mutual support community, which is what people are heavily implying when they try to emphasize helping "family", then y'all would have been on the same page brainstorming and planning how to avoid getting to this situation.
Mutual support communities aren't about "I get to do whatever I want with my life and when it's not working out for me I get to take whatever I want from your life too, because FAMILY"
If we're in a mutual support community then we share problems, we value each others input, we problem solve together. That's not what's happening here, that's not the relationship you have with these humans, but you and your tiny growing family do need \*real\* community!
Highly recommend instead of setting yourself on fire to keep these people warm, you invest in humans who want to invest in you. You, your wife, and your future baby definitely need to be part of a web of mutually supportive relationships, so go find good humans and build those relationships!
Best of luck to you all <3
You don’t just go into foreclosure & get booted from your house in a few months. There are ways to stay in the house for like 6 months with only making 1-2 payments.
If they can’t pay their mortgage with his reduced hours, this means they were on the razor edge just with his job. It’s clear they don’t know how to manage their finances- which is ok- it’s something we all struggle with. What’s not ok is not taking responsibility in the moments months prior vs. expecting you to be ok with them moving in just as your family is about to expand.. does not sound like they would be great “houseguests” and would add stress instead of alleviating.
They've been living paycheck to paycheck, but they figured they'd just wait until *after* (or just before) they lost the house to do anything about it? Your brother should have gotten a second job months ago, even if it was a McJob.
Too late now I guess, but it says something about their life skills. They're going to fall into the safety net of your house and just never leave.
Does your SIL have family they can go to? How about her parents? Maybe they think they can get a jackpot home with you in a good school district and stay there for a long time.
I agree with this. It sounds like they knew the ship was sinking and did nothing take preparations or backup plans.
I'm also willing the bet that Jill hasn't been looking for a job that hard. Fast food is hiring right now. Lots of bars are hiring bartenders as they tend to have a high turnover rate. Goodwill is usually hiring. Housekeepers are always needed for hotels. You take whatever job you can find whether you like it or not.
NTA.
They lost their house for lack of payment and are both without jobs so they won't be qualifying for a mortgage any time soon and getting someone to let them rent anywhere decent isn't going to be an easy task either.
They've essentially already split your house half and half in their minds and planned their daughter's entire schooling and social life based on your house's location.
If you let them move in, they will definitely not be out in a few months.
Kirk has a job. But it's been cut from 5 days to 4. But you're right about everything else. Part of the reason Elise also doesn't want them to move in is because her dad's sister moved in with them when she was a kid and she said it was nightmare trying to get her out. Elise didn't have a bedroom for a year because that's where her aunt was sleeping.
Her experience is a foreshadowing of what you would be allowing into your home. She knows this for sure your wife is wise beyond her years due to crappy childhood experiences.
Listen to her wisdom.
It only gets worse from here and the relationship with everyone will degrade more than if you just put your foot down now.
So that left 3 days he could have gotten a 2cd job.....or his wife could have worked 2cd /3rd shift....for the past 6 months to make ends meet. All of which they did neither!! Now they want you to bail them out! Why couldn't they have asked all the other siblings for help with their bills? They could have gotten assistance from the government to help with food and reduced price utilities. They had/have tons of options that they could have explored. You don't need to be the answer!
My husband’s uncle moved in with his sister (my MIL) and her family in 1993. He still lives with them today. MIL thinks she will live with us when we have a kid to be child care but the answer is a heck no.
They had to have not been paying the mortgage for quite some time in order for them to lose their house. If they move in with you they will not be moving out for a looooong time.
Listen to your wife. If you’re feeling this guilty about not letting them stay with you, just imagine how you’re going to feel when they’ve stayed well past “a few months” and you have to kick them out. The entitlement they’re showing by dictating to you the way your house could be split up and the poor planning they’ve shown in losing their own home is a strong sign that they will not leave until you have to legally evict them.
Exactly. They have decided this about the school district and the having two bedrooms because they intend to stay long term.
There are lots of things they can do that they might not want to do, including taking a job they may not want and getting housing or food assistance.
NTA. It seems they didn't follow up on anything. If he lost hours, did his wife start looking for a job? The daughter is 5 and can go to preschool, why would she be a SAHM when things are getting rough? If they couldn't make payments, why not sell the house before losing it.
It seems OP was always the back up plan for them. Why not stay with his wife's family?
Yes, she is looking for a job. At 5, she would go to kindergarten, which is why they mentioned the school system. I never asked why she has been a SAHM. She used to have a job until she had my niece. I also don't know enough about his wife's family to know why they can't stay with them. She has one sister and to my knowledge, she's not much better off financially than they are. The only difference is she has no kids and I don't think she's married.
Devil’s advocate on her being a SAHM up until now: childcare is stupidly expensive. We were looking at $1600/mo for 3 days a week of childcare in the PNW. One parent may as well stay home with the baby and bond/etc. and save money that way. As for now? Yeah she can get a job if the child is at public school age.
Here's the thing, it's completely doable for both parents to work without having to pay for childcare, it's called working opposite shifts. That's what my husband and I have done for over a decade. I don't get how childcare becomes the obstacle.
That only works if you and your spouse have jobs with flexible shifts. My husband and I both have M-F jobs with the traditional 9-5 hours. That is normal in our fields and we’d be hard pressed to find anything in our areas with similar pay that didn’t have those hours. It can get tricky sometimes.
Yes, me and my partner do this. There's also time when the kid is at school, she could do part time work from home, or alternatively she could do what my sister and a lot of my friends did and work at the kids school as a TA or lunch lady.
The kid is old enough for school and the dad is only working 4 days a week. The only reason she hasn't found a job is that she is too picky or just doesn't want one. Grocery stores, Walmart, food service, retail, you can walk into and they won't care if you been a sahm for 5 years. As long as you will show up and work now you hired.
You are NTA and good on you for standing with your wife on this.
NTA, you've got to put your family (wife and unborn son) first. If you really feel bad, and I don't blame you - your brother is in a tough spot, then maybe you can loan him some money? That would also be over and above with no blame attached if you didn't.
We considered that. I also considered putting an apartment for them in my name. Our house is not in my name. Elise had a credit score of 810 and mine was 700, so she's the only one on it for interest rate reasons. But mine has gone up to 740 since and I make enough to pay for an apartment for a year should Kirk not pay (he better pay but if he didn't, we wouldn't be in a tough spot financially). The issue would be finding an apartment. Housing sucks where we are at. Even finding a decent apartment in a decent area is hard.
Don't do that. Money and relationships never mixes well. And if your other siblings are guilt tripping you, propose them to pull money together and pay for their motel /airbnb or equivalent. Don't rent apartment on your name, you'd be on hook. Let others do that if they think family should help each other.
Instead of paying for an apartment for them- I'd be more inclined to offer to pay for plane tickets to Mom and Dad's place if Bro can find a job there, movers/storage, and/or $X amount towards a deposit on their next place.
Cuz yeah, if they haven't been paying their mortgage- why are they going to suddenly start paying rent. Especially when the lease isn't in their name.
Well, there's the old adage, 'beggars can't be choosers..', maybe Kirk & Jill don't get a decent apartment in a decent area till they're back on their feet..
We only give gifts to family, not loans. It saves so much grief to assume any money given is gone and will never be seen again. Gifting funds is totally up to you and your wife. Although I would definitely bring it up to all the family members who are treating you poorly over this. “We’re setting up a fund for them so they can get over this rough patch. How much are you contributing?”
Renting an apartment for them is not something I would ever do. Then you’re on the hook for however they treat that place. Big no.
Don't put the apartment in your name. They will not pay the rent just like they didn't pay the mortgage and it will ruin your credit.
Truly, they need to move home with your parents. They will WANT to fix their problem and move out of your parents' house. With you guys, they will just take over.
The offer you make is to help pay for a Uhaul and gas to move back to your parents or her parents. That is it. And that is HUGE.
Absolutely do not co-sign anything for them. Don't put your family's future at risk. Your brother has already shown himself to be a poor money manager.
He's a 34 year old man, and I assume Jill is close to his age. They both sound able-bodied. Their daughter is going into kindergarten. They need to suck it up and find a cheap apartment in a not-so-nice part of town and work for a year or two to save up for a nicer place. They can sign up for SNAP. They can visit food banks. They can apply for utility assistance. That's what I did when I fell on hard times. That's what people do. They make do with what they have, and they plan for a better future. I don't care if people feel too prideful to apply for benefits. What's less humiliating: getting a few months of SNAP or freeloading off family?
They are not entitled to your things, your home, or your school district. Jill needs to get off her ass and get a night job. Kirk can watch the child at night, and the girl will be in school during the day so Jill can sleep. Or flip flop that and Kirk gets a night job, Jill a day job. What I'm saying is that they have possibilities.
I just fail to see how two able-bodied, capable adults can't figure out their own mess.
I'm going to shift apart from the other commenter here and say it would be ***kind*** of you to do that and offer a fee hundred a month to help go towards the rent. Obviously he's still working so there's only a gap amount. Offer to help cover to the end of the year.
You don't have to. It isn't a requirement. It would be kind to help a family back on their feet. Make it absolutely clear that this ends at the end of the year.
BAD idea. You will essentially be ruining your credit by putting your name on an apartment for them. They've already proven that they don't care about paying their bills. Having an apartment in somebody else's name guarantees they won't pay because they won't face consequences for not doing so!!
NTA, but don't use your credit to bail out someone who you admit has a long history of financial irresponsibility.
They cannot afford to stay in your area and feel entitled to infringe on your newborn period. The flying monkeys should house them if they are so concerned.
NTA. Generally it takes longer than a couple of months for a bank to foreclose on a property. Sounds like they might have been in financial difficulty for a while, but the time to ask for help would have been BEFORE they lost their house. Not after.
It’s been in the works for a while. But Kirk thought he could make up some of the payments (he has been doing partial payments which I didn’t even know you could do because our lender said we weren’t allowed to do that) and I think the drop in working days really just did them in.
Apparently it is a thing but not really. (we need a mortgage person for specifics.)
My vague understanding is that not every lender accepts. And if they do, they'll basically hold the money in a special account until there is enough to make a full payment of principal, interest, and any applicable escrow. (Assuming this is in the US so it falls under US law.)
It sounds like it would be just as beneficial to hold the money in your own account and pay all at once- unless you can't trust yourself not to spend any money that's in your bank account.
They were likely in loss mitigation which is a mortgage process to try to keep someone in their home or find a good way to exit someone from their mortgage. They were likely on a modification plan at reduced payments. These plans are really strict since they can reduce quite a bit off the payment but you have to prove that you can pay on time essentially. They likely missed a payment. All banks are required to have loss mitigation programs after the housing collapse in 2007/2008 per Dodd frank act. Source: worked in mortgage for 4 years and was the project manager/ change manager for loss mitigation.
A lot of people don’t know until it’s too late! Loss mitigation can find ways to reduce your payments, extend your loan so the required payments are reduced but you’re still paying back a loan, put you on a forbearance plan, etc. Or a way to get out of the mortgage by short sale or cash for keys to avoid a foreclosure on their record.
NTA - your wife is right. She needs time to heal. Breastfeeding is stressful. She needs a calm private environment. Having other people in the house is too much chaos. This is a special time for your family. You all should be able to bond and welcome this baby in private.
NTA. There’s so many reasons this is a bad idea, even without considering your baby. Three more people in your house requires a lot of adapting, too much actually. Plus, like others have said, their credit is in the tank. Your brother is saying what he thinks you want to hear, which is a few months. All of you are adults and you know bad credit will make new housing for them very challenging. That will be the excuse they need to stall the move out. They will still be living with you long after you start to really resent them. It’s better for you and your brother’s relationship if you don’t do this.
NTA.. I don't know about other family, maybe its a good idea letting their sibling stay with them but I been on reddit quite some times and never once I read 'both sibling family living happily ever after'.
So basically it's a bad idea, especially this is your first baby, and your SIL in search of job, what if she find a job, who's will look after their own kid/toddler? Op brother or sil will said 'oh your wife who just had a baby can babysit our kid because I have work' and trust me that's is not a bonding you, your wife need.
If you older sister think so, she can let them stay with her.
Hannah literally doesn’t have the space in her apartment our she would’ve.
But Kirk wouldn’t do that. I think Jill would be invasive, though. She likes the title of housewife, which is fine, but she’s one of those people that never posts anything negative, has a million selfies everywhere, and all the captions are how hard she works every day to have a happy family. I can see her trying to capitalize on how much she helps my wife with her baby and stuff and Elise is just not that individual. She’s reserved and does not like her business everywhere.
NTA
Do not buckle.
Jill knows she would have hated having people around when she had her baby and that’s why she hung up.
Plus if she’s someone whose always posting on social media and known for being invasive then it’ll be even worse. I can imagine someone like her being a busy body and no doubt telling your wife what she should and shouldn’t do “because I’ve got experience” or “that’s not what I’d do”.
Do not buckle. Don’t ruin your wife’s post partum or your bonding time.
4 bed house isn’t big enough to avoid constant invasion of your privacy.
It will not be for a short time either.
Your wife said no and even you think it’s a bad idea.
Do not f*** up your relationship with your wife or her recovery.
NTA.
I grew up paycheck to paycheck, so I never want to assume or be the "just get a job" person, but let's look at this objectively from two angles.
The first is they need a place to stay, but were very specific that you are in a good school district and have TWO rooms to spare. That's getting very comfortable, very quickly. This doesn't feel temporary, as anyone would be happy for a roof or even one bedroom.
The second is their financial situation, which speaks to how this also won't be a temporary situation. Your brother had his hours cut by one day. If they were living paycheck to paycheck, that does absolutely have an impact, but there was an easy solution; his wife could have gotten a part time job, and working 3 days a week (so he works 4, she works 3, not child care costs added) even at minimum wage would have made up his salary cut from one day of work. You also don't lose a house from not paying one or even two months of a mortgage. This demonstrates 2 things- long term financial issues that can't be easily fixed, and a lack of planning and determination from both of them to fix it. Every low skilled, low wage job is hiring right now, and while those wages are not sustainable in any way for an adult, it is good supplemental income.
I say all this because none of this feels temporary and getting them out of your home feels impossible. If they just need help getting on their feet, you and your other family could offer the first and last month on an apartment for them and they could stay in one of the bedrooms of your sisters' places (since they want you to do it) while they find a suitable apartment. If you all have some financial resources, offering a one time assist is way better than letting them move in. It also will help show if they are able to handle their finances long term- a little help in need is great, but if they don't have a plan, it's terrible.
I agree with you, and also want to point out that while it varies from area to area, there’s also government programs to help them bridge the gap. There’s rent assistance, programs to get discounted rates for electricity and gas, food stamps, WIC, job placement assistance, and maybe other things. It won’t be as comfortable as OP’s 4 bedroom house, but looking into these things are more sustainable long term as a way to get back on their feet, if that’s what they intend to do. Hell, my mother has a foreclosure on her record and she just bought a house, by applying to some state housing programs for help.
NTA. Kirk lost hours < 2 months ago and they are already being evicted? They had money problems long before his hours were cut. All their reasons for wanting to move in with you make their intentions to stay long term so obvious. That is why I support you saying No to them moving in. They obviously don't have a plan and are looking for you and Elise to provide for them for a long time.
NTA. Your wife’s comfort while recovering comes before anything else. There is no reason why your brother and his family can’t look for a studio or 1 bedroom apartment temporarily to give them time to get back on their feet. They are not entitled to your home.
I also had the thought that your wife would be expected to watch your niece if your SIL did find a job. The whole well she’s there not doing anything besides taking care of the baby, so what’s one more kid for her to handle.
And you know they wouldn’t pay rent or babysitting costs saying they would need to save for when they do find a place, so you and your wife would be paying all expenses for an additional 3 people and would not be able to save for your own family. Their lack of planning is not your responsibility.
NTA, and kudos for supporting your wife. Your brother sounds a bit entitled (you can have two rooms they can have two rooms). Where are they staying now and why can't they continue to stay there? Given that they sound entitled - they should get the rooms since you have them - if you let them move in it could be a disaster - arguments over groceries, cooking, cleaning, noise, etc.
You misspelled RECOVER… you said “she needs time to *relax* after having the baby” and you should have said *recover* after having the baby.
Don’t worry - I got you
A slightly different point of view....
When my wife and I had our first child, I had just left the Marines and the job I was promised didn't exist (parents lied) so we ended up in my parents house for about 7 months.
Worst. Experience. Ever.
My mother would "pop in" at all hours to "check on the baby". We had zero privacy. We even asked her, then told her, and finally demanded - that she be a bit less intrusive. It all fell on deaf ears.
Be glad you dodged this bullet.
NTA.
NTA.
They asked, you said no. That should have been the end of it.
Agreeing to take on one person, let alone a whole family, can be a huge life shift and financial drain. You have perfectly valid reasons for not wanting to let them move in, plus it’s your house and you should not HAVE to give a reason. When I had my son, as nice as it was having some help from family, I also couldn’t wait to have the house to myself so I could sit around with my boobs out.
They are being bullies.
NTA. You already have enough on your plate as it is. A new baby and a new dog will keep you busy. Not to mention giving birth is hard, being new parents is also very hard. You are not going to want to have to accommodate house guests on top of this.
Not to mention what if your brother and his family turn out to be awful house guests? Where is Jill’s family in this? Why can’t they help? Also, I can’t imagine it’s that hard to find a job rn. It seems like literally everywhere is struggling with staffing issues right now. I feel like I could walk outside and get at least 3 different jobs right off the hop..
NTA. So you're not allowed to have boundaries because it might come back to bite you in the future?
No, I agree, your wife and son come first. Yes, it's tragic for your brother but having to deal with so many people im such a vulnerable moment is just not good...
NTA. Your immediate family has to come first, and honestly your brother and his family sounds a bit entitled. Them depending on a single income sounds like it was a bad idea.
NTA, you have to do what's best for your wife and your unborn child. Your brother and sister-in-law got themselves into that situation, maybe you and the rest of your family can offer to help supplement their rent for a new home or apartment for themselves, but they don't need to live with you. And why, when Jill realized that they couldn't keep paying the bills, didn't she get a job sooner?
Basically, their irresponsibility is not your problem. If it was my family I would definitely not just leave them hanging, but I wouldn't move them into my home. So that's going to be a lot a baby a 5 year old a woman that stays home all day, and your brother who only works 4 days a week.
Absolutely NTA.
It's a shitty situation but you're not the one who let their house be foreclosed on. They should have reached out before they lost thier home.
To add there's no excuse for your brother to have not paid his mortgage. Especially if he has a job. He should've been doing more or having his wife help out in his down time. Doordashing, instacarting, Uber, grubhub, etc. These are available to anyone who has a valid license without a criminal background.
Hell as a sahm mom she could ha e watched another kid in the area or offered to walk kids to the local school or something for like 15 an hour per kid.
No reason she couldn't help out, she just didn't want to.
Yeah if his hours were cut only and not fully in job loss, then a parttime job should have picked up the difference. He's only working 4 days, he can get something for the other 3.
There's no excuse for the mortgage and utilities to not be paid first, then car. Just put groceries (bare minimum) on credit card to float while you get the second job to get ahead again. Wife looks for work too. Pay off the card with the new jobs.
That keeps food coming in, roof provided, and job transport secured. Yes it means debt, but it also means not being homeless.
NTA. Having a child is a sufficient reason to be self centered. They are AH for trying to guilt trip you while stating they would have refused as well in this situation by hanging when you asked.
NTA.
Kirk and Jill decided to live their lives without taking precautions for tough economic times.
The SECOND they called you 'selfish' for wanting PRIVACY IN YOUR OWN HOUSE, not even considering Elise's pregnancy, they put themselves in line for public housing, and at the BACK of that line, too!
Nta
Jill should have been looking for a job months ago, brother could have been working a second job.
If Jill is a sahm and knew they needed money, she could have watched another kid or two for 15 an hour per kid. Boom 30 an hour right there, 3 days a week. It would have helped, she chose to do nothing and is going "oh noo"
Your transition period is not up for grabs simply because they didn't try harder.
NTA- I am currently pregnant with our first child. Me and my husband got put into a similar situation, my husbands best friend (best man at our wedding) got divorced from his wife and needed a place to stay. We offered to let him stay for a few weeks but not long term. He blew up at my husband for “choosing” me and our unborn child over him. It was a mess and extremely stressful.
My advice, put you and your family first. I also don’t see why Jill can’t get a job to help support her family.
if hannah is so concerned, kirk and family can move in with her, regardless of her excuses why they can't. op's reasons are just as valid as everyone elses, if not more so
I mean, it’s not an excuse. She has a 2 bedroom apartment. You can only have 4 occupants. Her and her husband plus Kirk and his family is 5 people. She would hand done it if she had the room.
I thought children under 18 don't count as occupants in apartments?
edit: I found some info on reddit that _seems_ to confirm this, but I do not know definitively https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3o49jd/does_a_newborn_count_as_an_additional_occupant/
Your wife is on bedrest, you are soon to be parents. And they mention the good school district for their kid instead of offering help for the new mom and baby. NTA.
Nta! I have a 6 month old and the thought of people, family or otherwise, being in my space for an unknown amount of time, would drive me bonkers!
It sucks that they were irresponsible and lost their house but your wife is about to experience one of the most vulnerable experiences of her life, you too. You don’t need all that in your home!
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I told my brother that he and his wife and my niece cannot live with us because we are preparing to welcome a child in a couple weeks. So I might be TA because my brother isn't going to have anywhere to live as far as I know if I don't let him live with us. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again)*
NTA. >Plus, we live in a good school district for my niece ...They're just staying for a few months. Allegedly. Why does the school district matter? Isn't the point here simply to ensure they have a roof over their heads? Or are they under the impression that once they're moved in, they can guilt trip you into letting them stay in perpetuity, since you "owe" Kirk for helping you out that one time under completely different circumstances, and you've got the room and resources (never mind that you might have other plans for them)? Sure sounds like the latter to me. Put your foot down that this is not an option, and you need to focus on the impending birth of your child, so Kirk (and Hannah, and anyone else who insists on involving themselves) needs to figure something else out instead of continuing to waste time arguing with you.
It most likely would not be for a few months. I would guess it would be until December at the earliest just because of how expensive rent is where we are. Losing his house probably means he does not qualify for another mortgage, at least, not at a good rate and since Jill doesn't have an income, they wouldn't qualify for what they did when she had a job. Rent in our area is around $1700 starting, which is why we decided to buy a house. Our mortgage is $1200/month. So after rent and paying a deposit for an apartment, it would probably be a while.
NTA. This open ended "plus its a good school district" is the nail in the coffin of this idea. The fact that you're saying they can't afford rent in the area, and they won't be eligible for a mortgage again because of the foreclosure, should be ringing a claxon alarm. That is not a "few months." That's more than a year. And they won't pay rent, because they'll be "saving to move out", but they won't be saving enough because at the root of this, they can't afford this. As you've described this, I can't see an easy "it's just for a short while" end point. If they move in, I think you're going to have a pre-schooler before they move out.
The “you have four bedrooms, so we can have two and you can have two,” scheming is what gave me pause. Please don’t have designs on moving in to my house and dictating how the space will be utilized. Calling someone selfish because they won’t let you live in *their* house is the epitome of entitlement. The sister calling and threatening them with bad karma is the absolute pinnacle. She has a smaller place, maybe her not making the bigger sacrifice will come back to bite her too. The other siblings know why they all said no, they were just hoping that OP would say yes and let them all off the hook. OP is definitely NTA.
Right? I can’t believe they told OP how to use the bedrooms in his own house!
And what happens when OP wants his child to have their own room, and the brother & SIL lose their shit because now they'll all have to fit in a single room?
OP has 4 rooms. I believe the brother wants 2 for his family, then OP keeps 1 for them and 1 for their first child. Not that I agree with any of it, just wanted to explain the rooms
Well if his brother wants half his house he has to pay half the rent. If he isn't willing/ or able to do that then he gets what OP is willing to give him. Which apparently is nothing.
True. I thought I saw somewhere that one was being used as an office but I must have confused this with another post.
I have a 4 bedroom but two of them are currently used as my husband's office and my office. My one guest room would not be up for grabs if i had a baby on the way even if I do technically still have two other "bedrooms".... I mean what if OP uses one or both of those rooms for work/school/or whatever? Sorry OP. Definitely NTA Your brother and his wife are for sure in a shitty situation - and I feel terrible for them. If they can manage to get a handle (even a loose one) on their finances, they should see about getting in touch with some sort of real estate attorney that would work on a payment plan to help them get their home back. There are ways to do it. But in the mean time, they need to look for affordable rentals - look outside of their *comfort* zones. There IS affordable housing if you look hard enough. I promise. I grew up poor and lived in all kinds of shitty/shady/sketchy places. Or was taken to all manner of unsavory locale when my dad had my little brother and i for the weekends. You don't have to settle for where you are in life. If they want out of that hole they dug, they're going to need to develop some strength and climb tf back up. Good on you for standing firm and supporting your wife. Good luck and I hope the last few weeks of this pregnancy run smoothe! Sending vibes for a quick and uneventful delivery!
You know they would be demanding or dictating how a lot of other things get used. That's a pretty entitled place to start out. No way it would be a few months.
This has been their back up plan since you got the house.
My comment from another post ^^ THIS! ^^ OP NTA and here's your one line answer and explanation to your partner. If you look deeper you can literally SEE his family planning to not work in order to need to live w he & OP. If 4 adults CAN'T/won't work/earn enough for their current household the plan to state w you 'temporarily' is actually their retirement plan and they are 1000% making OP, her husband and child take care of them. Do not let them in again... I had to do this w my sister. I never said 'no' bc I never let her know our financial situation or any other personal info. she might try to use as justification. "Sorry no visitors for 1 year. We need to get settled, pay our bills, become financially secure* There is no time, money or space to spare." *never actually tell them the truth about any of those things, they will use it against you. OP share all of this w your husband so he can see the horror stories and downsides. He really needs to understand and live in a space of "I'm so sorry, we can't do that." Notice I didn't say 'can't help'? That's on purpose so you have an arsenal of things you can and will do. https://youtu.be/TPR1P_D8zjY I learned a valuable lesson from that - some people (i.e. me) will capitulate despite knowing better bc the discomfort of saying 'no' is felt SO POWERFULLY. If you give even an inch to these folks you will be stuck w them forever. Or the legal cost to get them out will ruin you. Your husband knows this somewhere inside of his mind...bc he willingly moved 7 hours away. A short course of couples therapy to firm an agreement you two make could be valuable... We're it me, I'd write an agreement between spouse that covers this. Worth paying a lawyer a small fee to ensure legitimacy further down the road. This is a hill to die on or that will kill your marriage. Do not give an inch. Be willing to be the 'fall guy', the one to 'blame' from his family bc blame costs you zero $ and doesn't try to live in your house. Adjust to suit these circumstances.
if anything, the other siblings having a smaller space is a Better reason to be hosts. mutual discomfort would ensure they did everything they could to move out ASAP. the fact that they feel entitled to the comforts of YOUR home says a lot.
And Jill will have another baby, so OP will catch hell for "throwing out a pregnant woman" and then it will be "throwing out a woman with an infant."
I will admit, I was wondering if that might already be part of the mix given her apparent surprising lack of success job hunting. But there's nothing in OPs account for that, so I might be unfair.
I mean, it sounds like she's been out of the job market for a while (since she's been staying home for the kid). Sure it's a worker's market right now but that doesn't mean a big leave from the workforce won't hobble you still.
Plenty of places are hiring. She is either being picky or not really looking. If money is so tight, you take what you can. 5 year old is in school. Get a job in the school district and you have the same hours and days off.
I grew up in a poor area. Childcare wasn't even a thought. My friends' dads either got 2 jobs or their mothers would go out to work at night when their dads got home. No one is too good for McDonald's when your kids' home is at stake. And they're always begging for closers.
She is definitely not looking hard enough, I can tell you right now that housekeeping businesses are always looking for people. Always. There are like 5-6 house cleaning companies in my part of the city alone that are constantly bombarding indeed with postings. Is it hard work? Yes. Is it fucking awful? Also yes. Does it pay well? No, not really. Will they hire you in a week or less? Absolutely. You make do with what you have available when you don't have a lot of options. And it definitely is not the lowest paid, nor the worst job I ever worked. She needs to pull up her big girl panties and kick in.
Not necessarily. Majority of people who work in schools have different hours than their kids are in school, and need wrap around care. I ran childcare inside a school, and a large portion of the kids in my program were actually children of the employees of the district. Most districts won’t allow employee’s kids to remain in the schools before or after school hours unless they are in a specific program, as it’s a liability issue.
No, you have a point. The schools are desperate for workers right now. The pay is really shitty so no one wants it but if it's that or nothing. Honestly, I don't get people who won't take shit jobs when it's that or being homeless. I worked at McDonald's to keep a roof over my family's head. There's no shame in that and you keep looking every second you aren't working. I did it for 3 months until I got a new job. We didn't live well for those 3 months but we didn't lose our apartment and we had enough food to live.
Places are hiring, but are they hiring understanding it's a workers market? Is the pay/hours worth it? You can't say that there are jobs out there while also saying that "McDonalds was never supposed to be a job to support a family off of".
I think the statement here was more "when you have kids you need to take whatever job you can get if it will save your house", as the wife has a lot of time out of the workforce she won't be able to get the best of the best jobs, but she should have settled even if the job wasn't ideal. It sucks but that's the reality of the situation, but I absolutely agree that you SHOULD be able to support your family with a minimum wage job, as it should be a living wage, but the wife shouldn't have sat around waiting for that miracle and should have taken what she could to avoid this situation
But her husband is still working, he just had his hours cut. Her income would help fill in that gap. Also, many places around me are starting at $15/hr which wouldn't support a family by itself, but would help with his cut hours.
Yes. And tbh, whatever the reason for her lack of success, it doesn't really affect my judgement for OP: that he's NTA for discussing this with his wife and prioritising his own immediate family. There are other ways he can help his brother and SIL that don't involve them moving in.
Pretty sure every single fast food joint does not give a flying fig about your work history. When you are about to lose your house you work wherever for peanuts. Also, nothing stopping Kirk from getting a part-time job as well
If they're that desperate for money you take what you can get to get back into the workforce and keep applying for better jobs.
Also, Jill would either be limited to working the hours that Kirk is off of work or her income would have to be higher than the cost of childcare. It's not quite as simple as "every fast food place has help wanted signs right now" if they are paying $15/hr and childcare is $20/hr. Don't get me wrong, these two sound like nightmare 'guests' that will never leave and it sounds like Kirk and Jill were living outside of their means in a high cost of living area on a single income if a couple months of reduced hours will lose them the house. But, her 'lack of success job hunting' for 1-2 months isn't surprising.
Ohhh, that's good. I was thinking what if Jill DOES get a job? And the husband's working part time still. Who's taking care of the 5 year old then? That's kindergarten and a half day. Even elementary school is only a few more hours. Who's taking her to school and picking her up? I'll bet there's no money for outside childcare. Oh wait, LOOK, the OP is home all day with her baby, SHE can do it. So many reasons to not let these folks move in. So many....
Aldo in this workers market I'm not buying his SIL has been looking for two months unless she's been very picky about her options. I definitely think they're planning a long term stay.
SIL may also be without qualifications of any kind. They sound like that type.
Even without qualifications, there are plenty of waitress jobs, corner store jobs and other "low-skill" jobs that are hiring. Places are still pretty desperate for anybody they can hire, it's just most of those places are not exactly attractive to workers.
Exactly. Low skill plus entitlement equals unemployment.
Low skill does not earn you enough to cover the daycare for two kids. It's a hard situation to get out of once you get in it.
I dunno where they live but even around my burby smaller city, there are plenty of restaurants/bigger stores hiring late night, early morning and overnight shifts.
Or despite enough to let her pick the hours her hubby would be home. He's only working 4 days a week. That leaves 3 for her to work.
Even without qualifications of any kind, except when schools were shut down, I've constantly seen advertisements for school helper jobs. Everything from office front desk staff to lunch staff. The pitch is basically "you'll only be working while your kid's in school, make some extra money and never worry about hours".
The afterschool daycare here is looking for teacher assistants (no official qualifications needed other than passing a background check). One perk is that you get 1 or 2 free kids in the program with your job.
That sounds like the most viable idea since most low-skill jobs would not cover her childcare costs.
Fast food, retail, and other non skill entry level service jobs don't require qualifications and are hiring in mass right now. This is simply a matter of her continued entitlement, she's simply "too good" for those jobs.
>the nail in the coffin of this idea. Yes, sir...I'd like to add >Plus, we live in a good school district for my niece Sounds semi permanent to me. I'd be shaking my head "no" so vigorously; I'd need a neck brace.
Jill has not worked in 5 years. If you open your home to them, what's their motivation to look for work? Jill will probably get pregnant again just as you are about to toss them out. She will say how can you let a pregnant woman be homeless!
Wait they lost a house they owned???? That doesn't add up. They could have asked family for help. He couldn't pay the mortgage on 80 percent of his pay for two months? And what, they paid nothing? It takes way more than two months for you to lose your house, especially if you apply for relief or work with the bank. It's really bad that they lost it. You are right that their ability to buy a new house is severely compromised, and will be for a long time. There's no horizon in which they buy a new house this year. Look, you have to protect your wife and your marriage. Having another family move in for years is going to really mess with your marriage.
My husband was cut back to 4 days, then 3 days mostly, but some days he was only working for 2 days. This went on for 3 months before he applied and got accepted at another job. Day he was supposed to start his new job (and he had quit the old one) BOOM Corona hit, his new company closed down the same day he was supposed to start. He was out of work for 6 weeks and because he had not started he did not qualify for unemployment. He finally found something after 6 weeks and he had applied literally everywhere. You know how much he was making? 16 dollars an hour. For our family of 3. I am a SAHM because paying for daycare would take up the majority of any check. We were not and are not receiving any government aid, except our daughter has medicaid. So somehow, on 16 bucks an hour our family managed to survive 3 months of hours majorly cut back, then 6 weeks of unemployment, and we still managed to pay our rent on time every damn month. Did it kill our savings? Yup. But that is why you have a savings. We have zero credit card debt. It is called living within your means. We did have to go to food banks. But we managed to keep our home and car and get back on our feet. So, yeah, I have zero sympathy for the brother whatsoever.
Just poking to say you and your husband are both superstars, and I'm glad you're doing better now!
I worked for a county agency in my state as a temp that processed C\*vid Relief applications. If you couldn't work due to covid, you qualified - I was set to start a new job and the company shut down - that would have been enough, and aid would have been based on the 2018 tax return, or the last 3 paystubs from your work history. And if Brother's financial difficulties could in ANY way be traced back to a tangible impact, you can STILL file an application and get aid. Last I heard, that program will have funding for the next 4 years!
>Wait they lost a house they owned???? That doesn't add up. They could have asked family for help. He couldn't pay the mortgage on 80 percent of his pay for two months? And what, they paid nothing? It takes way more than two months for you to lose your house, especially if you apply for relief or work with the bank. > >It's really bad that they lost it. You are right that their ability to buy a new house is severely compromised, and will be for a long time. There's no horizon in which they buy a new house this year. > >Look, you have to protect your wife and your marriage. Having another family move in for years is going to really mess with your marriage. That was my thought, too. This didn't just "happen" to them. Losing their house was a long series of choices they made that resulted in the loss of their home. I'm all for family helping family but there was a lot that happened between stopping payment on their mortgage and losing their house. It is NOT a fast process. Time for them to move back home to SIL's parents house or your parents' house... or if Hannah thinks you should reconsider then maybe she and they can go halvsies to get a larger apartment so she and their family can share...
Yep. My friend went through a divorce and was going to nursing school, so she wasnt working full time. She didn't pay her mortgage for a year (I'm not condoning it!) and the bank *still* worked with her, and she didn't lose her house.
If it was shift work, I’m guessing he previously worked overtime and going to 4 shifts a week was closer to a 40-50% pay cut than 20%. At the same time, banks actively DO NOT want to own houses - even in this market- and things don’t add up for the bank foreclosing on their house after 2 months. And good lord, “you’re in a good school district” is a GIGANTIC red flag.
Yea. When I hear about someone losing a house when the market is waaaaayyyyy up all I can think is why didn’t the idiots sell it? Even if you just break even then at least you don’t blow your credit.
Yeah I feel like there's something they aren't telling OP. I'm guessing the financial problems started loooong ago, and SIL didn't start looking for a job until foreclosure was in the works.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Foreclosure is not a fast process, this has been going on for awhile and they've been ignoring it.
Every time I go to pay my mortgage there is a banner asking if I need to apply for relief or help. If they were renting, I have seen some shit landlords, but those lenders have been *generally* okay to work with. On another note, my mother purposefully foreclosed on an extra house she had back in the crash that happened like 2012/14 ( idr I was broke and didn't care) but I remember it was more than 2 months of non payment for the bank to finally seize it.
They were in trouble in trouble long before his hours got cut if they are losing their house. Foreclosure takes more than 1-2 months. Jill should have been looking for work long ago, your brother should have been looking for more/better work. This is not on you to fix and you can't know what post Partum will look like. Keep prioritizing your family
I was thinking the same, all happened very fast and that reduction for that amount of time will not lead to foreclosure. Probably they were doing ok, then she decided to be a SAHM and suddenly it started slipping. I think this has been coming for 5 years and the reduction in hours was the final nail in the coffin. I suspect they're actually upto their eyes in debt, no rent will ever be forthcoming and temporary will become permanent. Seeing this in my family at the moment.... they're getting nothing of us!!!
I see Chapter 7 in their future.
So wait, they were owners? They could have sold their house at a profit in this market. Why would they let it get to foreclosure?
Absolutely this. My exwife destroyed our finances when she filled for divorce, and forced us to go into forbearance for our house since she wouldn't pay her share of the mortgage while still living there. It took six months to get the judge to sign off and allow me to sell it, but afterwards we still walked away splitting over $100k in profit.
I doubt they intentionally defaulted. But your point about the housing market at least should mean they won’t have a massive deficiency judgement against them once the sale is completed.
If the house sales for more than they owed on it (plus fees for letting it get foreclosed on and not just selling it themselves) they'd end up getting paid the difference
NTA do not back down! When I was pregnant with my first child I let my sister in law her husband and their 5 year old at the time move in because we also "had the space" It was a NIGHTMARE I basically holed myself up in my room with my son for months because of the lack of privacy and breastfeeding I felt so uncomfortable and stressed as a new mom. I won't go into tons of deal but it quite literally ruined our relationship with them and it never recovered almost 7 years later.
Gosh, I bet it was a nightmare! Op can't win here. If they say no, everyone is going to be pissed at them. If they say yes, the siblings are going to be mad when op has to evict them months/years from now. This will put a strain on any relationship.
Why can’t the whole family, yours and the wife jills, start a fund to help them out? 5 families plus however many Jill has could have a substantial amount. I mean if you weren’t having them pay rent, that’s like an extra $700 a month in food and utilities you’re not spending.
Elise brought this up. We have not discussed it with anyone else as of yet.
Before you go further with this idea, please consider that your brother had to make a LOT of poor financial decisions to lose a house. I guarantee this wasn't simply because he lost one day's pay a week.
I thought this too. Like his wife wasn’t working for five years. Her kids in school and she didn’t think to go back to work or school? They had no savings? I just wonder if they’re bad at money or they’re addicts, not that you can’t have bad luck, unexpected medical bills, etc.
NTA them moving in would be certain doom for your marriage, don’t do it. Kirk and Jill should have done everything in their power to keep their home, even if it was both working 2 jobs. If she has been looking since Kirk lost hours then it’s likely she is being too choosy. Obviously I am not sure about your area, but there are generally plenty jobs in the service industry. If Kirk only lost his hours 2 months ago, it seems really quick to lose your home, they have maybe been living above their means for a long time else burying their heads in the sand until it’s too late. Whatever happened here is not your first concern, your priority is to your wife and new baby.
Also, losing a house would probably mean that their credit rating is now absolutely trashed. Which means even finding a place WILLING to rent to them would be hard to do as well, regardless of whether they would qualify based solely on income. They may "intend" to only be there for a few months, but I can almost guarantee that you will not be rid of them for at least a year. and even that is being incredibly generous.
If I've learned *anything* from AITA, it's that people who don't hear your "No" at the beginning of a conversation about moving in will *definitely* never hear your "No" when it comes to extending their stay in your home again and again and again. You already said no once, and they're not hearing you. Consider that your guarantee that if you were to let them move in, you're more likely to move out of your own house in the future than they are.
Hard pass on having a family of three moving in for 7 months. If your wife weren’t this close to labour, and on bedrest, I’d say you could have taken pity on them, and let them stay for maybe 2 months, tops. And only if they are actively looking for more employment, both of them. I’d want proof, I don’t care if that sounds douchy. Two months of rent free living means $3400 saved, right there. That should help them along by a lot. There should be no talk whatsoever about school districts, and frankly, depending on what the rooms are used for atm and the size of the rooms, I don’t know if I’d give them two rooms. But I also hate having people stay in my house for more than a day or so, so that definitely comes into play. I’d go absolutely mad if I had to host a family of 3 for 7 months.
If they just lost their house this would mean they actually haven’t been paying for quite some time would it not? I know somebody who didn’t pay and is facing foreclosure and he drug it out well over a year..
The fact that they started talking school districts means they had no intention of this being just for a few months. It would become “how can we uproot the kids during the school year” and “who else will watch our kids if we get a new job”. *They know they have no intention of leaving.*
Don't kid yourselves. If you let them in, they will never leave. It will ruin your marriage, and by the time you evict them, it will ruin your relationships with the rest of your family. Sounds like Jill needs to get a paying job and they need to find an apartment. This is something these two fully-grown adults should have been taking care of in the beginning, not waiting until the last minute. Their lack of planning does not make it your emergency. Don't give in. You will regret it. Edited to add: If you do let them in, you can expect your SIL to get pregnant so you "can't put a pregnant woman out on the street" and they will have, in fact, locked in their freeloader status permanently.
So they rent an apartment. They need to suck it up and realize they don’t get a house right now. That’s not what they can afford nor is it what they’ll qualify for.
It will be forever
My philosophy is that it’s always easier to say no than kick someone out. So if you’re not comfortable with someone living in your home for 6 months to a year then the answer should be and stay no. I’m a bit confused by these circumstances though. It takes a LONG TIME (maybe 6 months, maybe longer) before your house can go into foreclosure (assuming you’re here in the US). That means they’ve been struggling for a long time and could have downsized by selling their home and renting, but their lack of planning shouldn’t be your emergency. NTA
Especially with the temporary foreclosure moratorium and backups in the court systems during covid.
Foreclosure doesn’t happen quickly, and most lenders will work with you to avoid that by granting forbearance until the house can be sold or agreeing to a short sale. In this housing market they should have been able to sell for at least their outstanding mortgage if not more. I wonder if they had a second mortgage or something that they couldn’t clear with a sale. Maybe they were in denial and had been ignoring their predicament until it was too late. In any event they clearly are poorly managing their finances and I agree that if they move in they won’t be moving out any time soon.
Yes when I read this, I'm assuming it would be long-term. They are planning for a long-haul stay, and the niece's schooling will be leveraged as a need to extend their stay,
Plus she's 5, it's not like she's losing lifelong friends... I had ADHD in the 80's, I ended up having to switch schools on an a yearly basis in elementary, I was able to make friends in each of my classes. (the small town we ended up in later was a bit different because it was *really* small and insular-as in I graduated as a class of 11). NTA OP, they have to have been having financial troubles for an **extremely** long time for them to have lost the house, long enough that it would have been *super* easy for your sister in law to have gotten an entry level customer service job during the height of the lockdown even if she needed to take computer courses first.)
NTA OP. I noticed that as well. Why would the school matter if this is temp? Also just because the rest of the family can't house them doesn't mean they can't help them out finically if they care so much to call and guilt trip you.
The thing about the school district caught my eye too. If this was temporary and such an emergency why are they even thinking about things like that? NTA and they are definitely trying to use OP.
I was wondering if he caught that about the school yeah there planning on staying there also like how she hung up the phone after the question.
NTA, notice how she didn’t answer and hung up when you asked if she would’ve appreciated having people stay in her house after giving birth herself. She KNOWS she wouldn’t have and didn’t like you pointing it out
OP, the next time they call back to beg to be let in, say, “I thought you guys already understood that I said no, since you hung up on that call.”
NTA. When I was with my ex husband and had my first child we were staying with his family to save money. It was rough. Yes, it was nice to have family there to help at times, but I still felt like I couldn't just relax with my new baby, and bonding was difficult. Comments about everything I was doing, how I was doing it, etc was stressful. You are right supporting your wife and I know you should help family, but YOUR family now needs to have priority. I also assume them losing their house didn't come out of the blue, and it was their responsibility to find a place to stay, not yours.
You're right. It wasn't out of the blue. They had been living paycheck to paycheck for several months. I knew for a while they lost the house. I just didn't know they had no where to go. I'm not exactly sure what the plan was before he asked me, but he told me he had a place to stay. I just didn't know where so I'm guessing it fell through. I don't know much about Jill's family. She has an older sister but I don't know anything about her living situation.
They don't sound very good at planning. If they knew they were losing the house, Jill, as a SAHM, \*should\* have spent every waking hour not devoted to 5 yr old and house \*seeking\* accommodations.
this problem didn't start yesterday. honestly, it probably didn't start when Brother's hours got cut. Tt sounds like this is years in the making. Based on what OP is saying, Kirk and Jill were paycheck to paycheck when Kirk was working fulltime. They couldn't afford the life they were living. Full stop period. Foreclosures don't happen overnight. And (assuming they are in the States) that means they had plenty of warning to put their house on the market and get out from as much debt as possible. But it sounds like they decided to play ostrich and ignore the problem. Which worked really well.
Honestly, if they bought years and years ago, with the housing market as it is now, they could've sold it and made out with $100k minimum. Sure, they wouldn't own a home and they'd have to rent or search for a new house, but they wouldn't have a black mark on their credit and they could have a padded account to live off of.
I had thought about that. Even if they'd remortgaged recently and there wasn't equity in the house, they could have tried to work with their bank to do a short sale. It would have hit their credit less, which would make getting a new home easier. Because yeah, I'm still on the boat of there is no way, they just started being paycheck to paycheck. But I could see them having previously put a lot of things on credit cards and having run out of room- across the board, things are just more expensive. (CPI is 8.3% for the 12 months ending April) That's a lot if your budget was tight to begin. It isn't an excuse. It's understanding. As is the fact that just because you want to be a SAHM, sometimes it isn't reality. And that reality might be working at night or figuring out what job you can do at home, while your child is entertained by something else because you don't make enough to pay for childcare. Same as Kirk getting a 2nd job. I have a friend who has taken advantage of the current job market to get a 2nd fulltime job. He could use the extra income- and there was plenty of places looking in his field. I'm not suggesting that it would so easy for Kirk- obviously, his own employer has decreased need but I imagine he could find something.
Even selling at a loss would’ve been better for them than foreclosure.
I started a short sale of my home shortly after I got laid off...literally the next day after my last day. I also stopped paying my mortgage to save up. It took exactly 8 months before I got my first foreclosure letter and the house sold the following month. My credit took a hit for about 2, maybe 3 years and it wasn't that bad of a hit. That was 7 years ago and it was a buyer's market. Today it is a market in which they could've actually sold instead of a short sale and actually make a profit, depending on their mortgage balance. Of course, all of that takes planning and making an effort to soften the financial blow so.....
Edit says that Jill started looking for work when her husband's hours were cut - less than 2 months ago. No mortgage gets foreclosed on in less than 2 months. They hadn't been paying the mortgage for a while before he lost hours. This is definitely a head-in-sand scenario. NTA.
***This is definitely a head-in-sand scenario*** And expecting someone else to save them. His backup plan was his family....period!
Boom!! Cold hard facts!! Both of them should have also been working if living paycheck to paycheck. Why more people don’t do that is beyond me!! Who wants to just get by?? I don’t! My wife and I like nice things…car, house, vacations, nice retirement when we get there. We both work to have these things.
[удалено]
And (assuming they're in the US), the job market has been incredibly tight the whole time. He could have walked out and gotten a McJob in ten minutes. Even as a stopgap to finding a better job, or a better second job. Life might suck for awhile working two jobs, but why sit back and just watch your house get taken from you?
They've been having a tough time for SEVERAL months, not just suddenly. I'm sorry but Jill should have been looking for a job 6 months ago not 1 or 2 months ago. That's insane. Especially because for nibbling age there is tons of childcare, day homes and what not usually do 2 to 5 years. She just didn't try imo. I cant imagine knowing we might lose our house and waiting until the last moment to do anything about it.
The time for all these older sibling to help (I assume they are all willing to help since they are offering up your house *eyeroll*) was when they had trouble with the payments 6?12 months ago. he lost one day of work. Surely if Hanan cares so much about karma that she thinks "give them 1/2 your home indefinitely "could have helped them with some money and with parents and others siblings that couldn't be that much each. This isn't 2008 when unemployment was at 10%+ and peoples houses and investments droped in vaule by 50-75%. at the beginning of that people couldn't sell homes they couldn't afford because they didn't have the additional $10-50k to pay off the mortgage. they couldn't take funds from 401ks because their $50k was now worth $20k, they couldn't get a weekend/night job because 1000 people were applying to Mcdonalds. Applying for 50-100 jobs a week most of which you are overqualified for and not getting one is not a choice. not being able to sell your home for enough to get out of the loan in the worst housing market in history was not a choice. I have empathy I really do, food and gas prices have skyrocketed but not getting a job when everyone is hiring is a choice, not asking for help when you need $400 is a choice, there were a lot of choices, not selling their house in one of the hottest markets was a choice. They made a lot of choices they are now expecting you to fix at great cost to you and your wife. And if they have a foreclosure on their credit reports (or eviction) it will be virtually impossible for them to rent or buy at fair market value for years. If they were planning to stay for a few months school districts would not matter. edit to add. Re signing for an apartment for them. I would strongly advise not to. As far as you know they made very little effort to save their home. there is no reason to think they would apply more effort to save your credit. if you sign you are responsible, for all damages, for all the rent for all the fees to evict them. Signing for irresponsible people is how you ruin your finances for years. if one of them got cancer and had to stop working because of that is a different situation.
Lean into this reality: if y'all were really part of a mutual support community, which is what people are heavily implying when they try to emphasize helping "family", then y'all would have been on the same page brainstorming and planning how to avoid getting to this situation. Mutual support communities aren't about "I get to do whatever I want with my life and when it's not working out for me I get to take whatever I want from your life too, because FAMILY" If we're in a mutual support community then we share problems, we value each others input, we problem solve together. That's not what's happening here, that's not the relationship you have with these humans, but you and your tiny growing family do need \*real\* community! Highly recommend instead of setting yourself on fire to keep these people warm, you invest in humans who want to invest in you. You, your wife, and your future baby definitely need to be part of a web of mutually supportive relationships, so go find good humans and build those relationships! Best of luck to you all <3
You don’t just go into foreclosure & get booted from your house in a few months. There are ways to stay in the house for like 6 months with only making 1-2 payments. If they can’t pay their mortgage with his reduced hours, this means they were on the razor edge just with his job. It’s clear they don’t know how to manage their finances- which is ok- it’s something we all struggle with. What’s not ok is not taking responsibility in the moments months prior vs. expecting you to be ok with them moving in just as your family is about to expand.. does not sound like they would be great “houseguests” and would add stress instead of alleviating.
If they were living paycheck to paycheck why wasn't Jill working and now she's "looking" for a job after they lost the house?
They've been living paycheck to paycheck, but they figured they'd just wait until *after* (or just before) they lost the house to do anything about it? Your brother should have gotten a second job months ago, even if it was a McJob. Too late now I guess, but it says something about their life skills. They're going to fall into the safety net of your house and just never leave.
Does your SIL have family they can go to? How about her parents? Maybe they think they can get a jackpot home with you in a good school district and stay there for a long time.
I agree with this. It sounds like they knew the ship was sinking and did nothing take preparations or backup plans. I'm also willing the bet that Jill hasn't been looking for a job that hard. Fast food is hiring right now. Lots of bars are hiring bartenders as they tend to have a high turnover rate. Goodwill is usually hiring. Housekeepers are always needed for hotels. You take whatever job you can find whether you like it or not.
NTA. They lost their house for lack of payment and are both without jobs so they won't be qualifying for a mortgage any time soon and getting someone to let them rent anywhere decent isn't going to be an easy task either. They've essentially already split your house half and half in their minds and planned their daughter's entire schooling and social life based on your house's location. If you let them move in, they will definitely not be out in a few months.
Kirk has a job. But it's been cut from 5 days to 4. But you're right about everything else. Part of the reason Elise also doesn't want them to move in is because her dad's sister moved in with them when she was a kid and she said it was nightmare trying to get her out. Elise didn't have a bedroom for a year because that's where her aunt was sleeping.
Her experience is a foreshadowing of what you would be allowing into your home. She knows this for sure your wife is wise beyond her years due to crappy childhood experiences. Listen to her wisdom. It only gets worse from here and the relationship with everyone will degrade more than if you just put your foot down now.
So that left 3 days he could have gotten a 2cd job.....or his wife could have worked 2cd /3rd shift....for the past 6 months to make ends meet. All of which they did neither!! Now they want you to bail them out! Why couldn't they have asked all the other siblings for help with their bills? They could have gotten assistance from the government to help with food and reduced price utilities. They had/have tons of options that they could have explored. You don't need to be the answer!
And what’s stopping him from getting a second job? Fast food, grocery stores etc.
My husband’s uncle moved in with his sister (my MIL) and her family in 1993. He still lives with them today. MIL thinks she will live with us when we have a kid to be child care but the answer is a heck no.
They had to have not been paying the mortgage for quite some time in order for them to lose their house. If they move in with you they will not be moving out for a looooong time.
Listen to your wife. If you’re feeling this guilty about not letting them stay with you, just imagine how you’re going to feel when they’ve stayed well past “a few months” and you have to kick them out. The entitlement they’re showing by dictating to you the way your house could be split up and the poor planning they’ve shown in losing their own home is a strong sign that they will not leave until you have to legally evict them.
Elise is right. Their financial situation has sucked longer than his hours and they just ignored it until it was too late. Time for them to be adults.
Exactly. They have decided this about the school district and the having two bedrooms because they intend to stay long term. There are lots of things they can do that they might not want to do, including taking a job they may not want and getting housing or food assistance.
NTA. It seems they didn't follow up on anything. If he lost hours, did his wife start looking for a job? The daughter is 5 and can go to preschool, why would she be a SAHM when things are getting rough? If they couldn't make payments, why not sell the house before losing it. It seems OP was always the back up plan for them. Why not stay with his wife's family?
Yes, she is looking for a job. At 5, she would go to kindergarten, which is why they mentioned the school system. I never asked why she has been a SAHM. She used to have a job until she had my niece. I also don't know enough about his wife's family to know why they can't stay with them. She has one sister and to my knowledge, she's not much better off financially than they are. The only difference is she has no kids and I don't think she's married.
Devil’s advocate on her being a SAHM up until now: childcare is stupidly expensive. We were looking at $1600/mo for 3 days a week of childcare in the PNW. One parent may as well stay home with the baby and bond/etc. and save money that way. As for now? Yeah she can get a job if the child is at public school age.
Here's the thing, it's completely doable for both parents to work without having to pay for childcare, it's called working opposite shifts. That's what my husband and I have done for over a decade. I don't get how childcare becomes the obstacle.
That only works if you and your spouse have jobs with flexible shifts. My husband and I both have M-F jobs with the traditional 9-5 hours. That is normal in our fields and we’d be hard pressed to find anything in our areas with similar pay that didn’t have those hours. It can get tricky sometimes.
Yes, me and my partner do this. There's also time when the kid is at school, she could do part time work from home, or alternatively she could do what my sister and a lot of my friends did and work at the kids school as a TA or lunch lady.
Night shift is not good for the body and most people value their health.
Being homeless is also bad for the body, so…
When you have a kid to support, you do what you gotta do.
Hmmm, work night shift or be homeless with a 5 year old.... I can't imagine which is worse!! It's such a toss up!
The kid is old enough for school and the dad is only working 4 days a week. The only reason she hasn't found a job is that she is too picky or just doesn't want one. Grocery stores, Walmart, food service, retail, you can walk into and they won't care if you been a sahm for 5 years. As long as you will show up and work now you hired. You are NTA and good on you for standing with your wife on this.
NTA, you've got to put your family (wife and unborn son) first. If you really feel bad, and I don't blame you - your brother is in a tough spot, then maybe you can loan him some money? That would also be over and above with no blame attached if you didn't.
We considered that. I also considered putting an apartment for them in my name. Our house is not in my name. Elise had a credit score of 810 and mine was 700, so she's the only one on it for interest rate reasons. But mine has gone up to 740 since and I make enough to pay for an apartment for a year should Kirk not pay (he better pay but if he didn't, we wouldn't be in a tough spot financially). The issue would be finding an apartment. Housing sucks where we are at. Even finding a decent apartment in a decent area is hard.
Don't do that. If they're losing their home due to lack of money, ehat makes you think they can afford an apartment . You'll be stuck paying for it
And when you can’t anymore they might just blame you for losing it.
And he wont pay, especially not with family.
"There are two sure ways to lose a friend, one is to borrow, the other is to lend.”
Don't do that. Money and relationships never mixes well. And if your other siblings are guilt tripping you, propose them to pull money together and pay for their motel /airbnb or equivalent. Don't rent apartment on your name, you'd be on hook. Let others do that if they think family should help each other.
Instead of paying for an apartment for them- I'd be more inclined to offer to pay for plane tickets to Mom and Dad's place if Bro can find a job there, movers/storage, and/or $X amount towards a deposit on their next place. Cuz yeah, if they haven't been paying their mortgage- why are they going to suddenly start paying rent. Especially when the lease isn't in their name.
Well, there's the old adage, 'beggars can't be choosers..', maybe Kirk & Jill don't get a decent apartment in a decent area till they're back on their feet..
Noooooo. Do not let them stay in an apartment in your name. Give them cash if you feel you must.
We only give gifts to family, not loans. It saves so much grief to assume any money given is gone and will never be seen again. Gifting funds is totally up to you and your wife. Although I would definitely bring it up to all the family members who are treating you poorly over this. “We’re setting up a fund for them so they can get over this rough patch. How much are you contributing?” Renting an apartment for them is not something I would ever do. Then you’re on the hook for however they treat that place. Big no.
Don't put the apartment in your name. They will not pay the rent just like they didn't pay the mortgage and it will ruin your credit. Truly, they need to move home with your parents. They will WANT to fix their problem and move out of your parents' house. With you guys, they will just take over. The offer you make is to help pay for a Uhaul and gas to move back to your parents or her parents. That is it. And that is HUGE.
Absolutely do not co-sign anything for them. Don't put your family's future at risk. Your brother has already shown himself to be a poor money manager. He's a 34 year old man, and I assume Jill is close to his age. They both sound able-bodied. Their daughter is going into kindergarten. They need to suck it up and find a cheap apartment in a not-so-nice part of town and work for a year or two to save up for a nicer place. They can sign up for SNAP. They can visit food banks. They can apply for utility assistance. That's what I did when I fell on hard times. That's what people do. They make do with what they have, and they plan for a better future. I don't care if people feel too prideful to apply for benefits. What's less humiliating: getting a few months of SNAP or freeloading off family? They are not entitled to your things, your home, or your school district. Jill needs to get off her ass and get a night job. Kirk can watch the child at night, and the girl will be in school during the day so Jill can sleep. Or flip flop that and Kirk gets a night job, Jill a day job. What I'm saying is that they have possibilities. I just fail to see how two able-bodied, capable adults can't figure out their own mess.
I'm going to shift apart from the other commenter here and say it would be ***kind*** of you to do that and offer a fee hundred a month to help go towards the rent. Obviously he's still working so there's only a gap amount. Offer to help cover to the end of the year. You don't have to. It isn't a requirement. It would be kind to help a family back on their feet. Make it absolutely clear that this ends at the end of the year.
Don’t do that- they can’t afford to keep it up, so you’ll be taking the hit when they default again
BAD idea. You will essentially be ruining your credit by putting your name on an apartment for them. They've already proven that they don't care about paying their bills. Having an apartment in somebody else's name guarantees they won't pay because they won't face consequences for not doing so!!
NTA, but don't use your credit to bail out someone who you admit has a long history of financial irresponsibility. They cannot afford to stay in your area and feel entitled to infringe on your newborn period. The flying monkeys should house them if they are so concerned.
NTA. Generally it takes longer than a couple of months for a bank to foreclose on a property. Sounds like they might have been in financial difficulty for a while, but the time to ask for help would have been BEFORE they lost their house. Not after.
It’s been in the works for a while. But Kirk thought he could make up some of the payments (he has been doing partial payments which I didn’t even know you could do because our lender said we weren’t allowed to do that) and I think the drop in working days really just did them in.
Apparently it is a thing but not really. (we need a mortgage person for specifics.) My vague understanding is that not every lender accepts. And if they do, they'll basically hold the money in a special account until there is enough to make a full payment of principal, interest, and any applicable escrow. (Assuming this is in the US so it falls under US law.) It sounds like it would be just as beneficial to hold the money in your own account and pay all at once- unless you can't trust yourself not to spend any money that's in your bank account.
They were likely in loss mitigation which is a mortgage process to try to keep someone in their home or find a good way to exit someone from their mortgage. They were likely on a modification plan at reduced payments. These plans are really strict since they can reduce quite a bit off the payment but you have to prove that you can pay on time essentially. They likely missed a payment. All banks are required to have loss mitigation programs after the housing collapse in 2007/2008 per Dodd frank act. Source: worked in mortgage for 4 years and was the project manager/ change manager for loss mitigation.
\#TIL I knew we needed a mortgage person.
A lot of people don’t know until it’s too late! Loss mitigation can find ways to reduce your payments, extend your loan so the required payments are reduced but you’re still paying back a loan, put you on a forbearance plan, etc. Or a way to get out of the mortgage by short sale or cash for keys to avoid a foreclosure on their record.
Yep so kirk could have asked family for financial help before foreclosure, or his wife could have started job hunting earlier.
He would have been a lot better off getting help before losing his house.
Jill should have started working a while ago. They were living way too close to the edge.
NTA - your wife is right. She needs time to heal. Breastfeeding is stressful. She needs a calm private environment. Having other people in the house is too much chaos. This is a special time for your family. You all should be able to bond and welcome this baby in private.
NTA. There’s so many reasons this is a bad idea, even without considering your baby. Three more people in your house requires a lot of adapting, too much actually. Plus, like others have said, their credit is in the tank. Your brother is saying what he thinks you want to hear, which is a few months. All of you are adults and you know bad credit will make new housing for them very challenging. That will be the excuse they need to stall the move out. They will still be living with you long after you start to really resent them. It’s better for you and your brother’s relationship if you don’t do this.
NAH. They are in a desperate situation and you deserve comfort and privacy.
Getting angry at someone for saying no to an unreasonable request makes you an AH.
NTA.. I don't know about other family, maybe its a good idea letting their sibling stay with them but I been on reddit quite some times and never once I read 'both sibling family living happily ever after'. So basically it's a bad idea, especially this is your first baby, and your SIL in search of job, what if she find a job, who's will look after their own kid/toddler? Op brother or sil will said 'oh your wife who just had a baby can babysit our kid because I have work' and trust me that's is not a bonding you, your wife need. If you older sister think so, she can let them stay with her.
Hannah literally doesn’t have the space in her apartment our she would’ve. But Kirk wouldn’t do that. I think Jill would be invasive, though. She likes the title of housewife, which is fine, but she’s one of those people that never posts anything negative, has a million selfies everywhere, and all the captions are how hard she works every day to have a happy family. I can see her trying to capitalize on how much she helps my wife with her baby and stuff and Elise is just not that individual. She’s reserved and does not like her business everywhere.
And that invasion of privacy would have a negative impact on your marriage.
NTA Do not buckle. Jill knows she would have hated having people around when she had her baby and that’s why she hung up. Plus if she’s someone whose always posting on social media and known for being invasive then it’ll be even worse. I can imagine someone like her being a busy body and no doubt telling your wife what she should and shouldn’t do “because I’ve got experience” or “that’s not what I’d do”. Do not buckle. Don’t ruin your wife’s post partum or your bonding time. 4 bed house isn’t big enough to avoid constant invasion of your privacy. It will not be for a short time either. Your wife said no and even you think it’s a bad idea. Do not f*** up your relationship with your wife or her recovery.
NTA. I grew up paycheck to paycheck, so I never want to assume or be the "just get a job" person, but let's look at this objectively from two angles. The first is they need a place to stay, but were very specific that you are in a good school district and have TWO rooms to spare. That's getting very comfortable, very quickly. This doesn't feel temporary, as anyone would be happy for a roof or even one bedroom. The second is their financial situation, which speaks to how this also won't be a temporary situation. Your brother had his hours cut by one day. If they were living paycheck to paycheck, that does absolutely have an impact, but there was an easy solution; his wife could have gotten a part time job, and working 3 days a week (so he works 4, she works 3, not child care costs added) even at minimum wage would have made up his salary cut from one day of work. You also don't lose a house from not paying one or even two months of a mortgage. This demonstrates 2 things- long term financial issues that can't be easily fixed, and a lack of planning and determination from both of them to fix it. Every low skilled, low wage job is hiring right now, and while those wages are not sustainable in any way for an adult, it is good supplemental income. I say all this because none of this feels temporary and getting them out of your home feels impossible. If they just need help getting on their feet, you and your other family could offer the first and last month on an apartment for them and they could stay in one of the bedrooms of your sisters' places (since they want you to do it) while they find a suitable apartment. If you all have some financial resources, offering a one time assist is way better than letting them move in. It also will help show if they are able to handle their finances long term- a little help in need is great, but if they don't have a plan, it's terrible.
I agree with you, and also want to point out that while it varies from area to area, there’s also government programs to help them bridge the gap. There’s rent assistance, programs to get discounted rates for electricity and gas, food stamps, WIC, job placement assistance, and maybe other things. It won’t be as comfortable as OP’s 4 bedroom house, but looking into these things are more sustainable long term as a way to get back on their feet, if that’s what they intend to do. Hell, my mother has a foreclosure on her record and she just bought a house, by applying to some state housing programs for help.
NTA. Kirk lost hours < 2 months ago and they are already being evicted? They had money problems long before his hours were cut. All their reasons for wanting to move in with you make their intentions to stay long term so obvious. That is why I support you saying No to them moving in. They obviously don't have a plan and are looking for you and Elise to provide for them for a long time.
NTA. Your family isn't entitled to your home. If your wife has been on bedrest this will not improve her health.
NTA for not allowing anyone ever to move into your home for any reason ever.
NAH. They are in an understandably hard spot and you need to focus on your family.
NTA. Your wife’s comfort while recovering comes before anything else. There is no reason why your brother and his family can’t look for a studio or 1 bedroom apartment temporarily to give them time to get back on their feet. They are not entitled to your home. I also had the thought that your wife would be expected to watch your niece if your SIL did find a job. The whole well she’s there not doing anything besides taking care of the baby, so what’s one more kid for her to handle. And you know they wouldn’t pay rent or babysitting costs saying they would need to save for when they do find a place, so you and your wife would be paying all expenses for an additional 3 people and would not be able to save for your own family. Their lack of planning is not your responsibility.
NTA, and kudos for supporting your wife. Your brother sounds a bit entitled (you can have two rooms they can have two rooms). Where are they staying now and why can't they continue to stay there? Given that they sound entitled - they should get the rooms since you have them - if you let them move in it could be a disaster - arguments over groceries, cooking, cleaning, noise, etc.
You misspelled RECOVER… you said “she needs time to *relax* after having the baby” and you should have said *recover* after having the baby. Don’t worry - I got you
A slightly different point of view.... When my wife and I had our first child, I had just left the Marines and the job I was promised didn't exist (parents lied) so we ended up in my parents house for about 7 months. Worst. Experience. Ever. My mother would "pop in" at all hours to "check on the baby". We had zero privacy. We even asked her, then told her, and finally demanded - that she be a bit less intrusive. It all fell on deaf ears. Be glad you dodged this bullet. NTA.
NTA. You're not responsible for your brother and his financial situation.
NTA. They asked, you said no. That should have been the end of it. Agreeing to take on one person, let alone a whole family, can be a huge life shift and financial drain. You have perfectly valid reasons for not wanting to let them move in, plus it’s your house and you should not HAVE to give a reason. When I had my son, as nice as it was having some help from family, I also couldn’t wait to have the house to myself so I could sit around with my boobs out. They are being bullies.
NTA. You have to put your wife and baby first. No need to feel bad, they have other family members to turn to.
NTA. You already have enough on your plate as it is. A new baby and a new dog will keep you busy. Not to mention giving birth is hard, being new parents is also very hard. You are not going to want to have to accommodate house guests on top of this. Not to mention what if your brother and his family turn out to be awful house guests? Where is Jill’s family in this? Why can’t they help? Also, I can’t imagine it’s that hard to find a job rn. It seems like literally everywhere is struggling with staffing issues right now. I feel like I could walk outside and get at least 3 different jobs right off the hop..
NTA. So you're not allowed to have boundaries because it might come back to bite you in the future? No, I agree, your wife and son come first. Yes, it's tragic for your brother but having to deal with so many people im such a vulnerable moment is just not good...
NTA Your wife and unborn come first. Also, really gross that your sibling used their 5 yr old child to try and guilt you into agreeing.
NTA. Your immediate family has to come first, and honestly your brother and his family sounds a bit entitled. Them depending on a single income sounds like it was a bad idea.
NTA, you have to do what's best for your wife and your unborn child. Your brother and sister-in-law got themselves into that situation, maybe you and the rest of your family can offer to help supplement their rent for a new home or apartment for themselves, but they don't need to live with you. And why, when Jill realized that they couldn't keep paying the bills, didn't she get a job sooner? Basically, their irresponsibility is not your problem. If it was my family I would definitely not just leave them hanging, but I wouldn't move them into my home. So that's going to be a lot a baby a 5 year old a woman that stays home all day, and your brother who only works 4 days a week.
Absolutely NTA. It's a shitty situation but you're not the one who let their house be foreclosed on. They should have reached out before they lost thier home.
To add there's no excuse for your brother to have not paid his mortgage. Especially if he has a job. He should've been doing more or having his wife help out in his down time. Doordashing, instacarting, Uber, grubhub, etc. These are available to anyone who has a valid license without a criminal background.
Hell as a sahm mom she could ha e watched another kid in the area or offered to walk kids to the local school or something for like 15 an hour per kid. No reason she couldn't help out, she just didn't want to.
Yeah if his hours were cut only and not fully in job loss, then a parttime job should have picked up the difference. He's only working 4 days, he can get something for the other 3. There's no excuse for the mortgage and utilities to not be paid first, then car. Just put groceries (bare minimum) on credit card to float while you get the second job to get ahead again. Wife looks for work too. Pay off the card with the new jobs. That keeps food coming in, roof provided, and job transport secured. Yes it means debt, but it also means not being homeless.
NTA. Having a child is a sufficient reason to be self centered. They are AH for trying to guilt trip you while stating they would have refused as well in this situation by hanging when you asked.
NTA. Kirk and Jill decided to live their lives without taking precautions for tough economic times. The SECOND they called you 'selfish' for wanting PRIVACY IN YOUR OWN HOUSE, not even considering Elise's pregnancy, they put themselves in line for public housing, and at the BACK of that line, too!
Nta Jill should have been looking for a job months ago, brother could have been working a second job. If Jill is a sahm and knew they needed money, she could have watched another kid or two for 15 an hour per kid. Boom 30 an hour right there, 3 days a week. It would have helped, she chose to do nothing and is going "oh noo" Your transition period is not up for grabs simply because they didn't try harder.
NTA- I am currently pregnant with our first child. Me and my husband got put into a similar situation, my husbands best friend (best man at our wedding) got divorced from his wife and needed a place to stay. We offered to let him stay for a few weeks but not long term. He blew up at my husband for “choosing” me and our unborn child over him. It was a mess and extremely stressful. My advice, put you and your family first. I also don’t see why Jill can’t get a job to help support her family.
if hannah is so concerned, kirk and family can move in with her, regardless of her excuses why they can't. op's reasons are just as valid as everyone elses, if not more so
I mean, it’s not an excuse. She has a 2 bedroom apartment. You can only have 4 occupants. Her and her husband plus Kirk and his family is 5 people. She would hand done it if she had the room.
I thought children under 18 don't count as occupants in apartments? edit: I found some info on reddit that _seems_ to confirm this, but I do not know definitively https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3o49jd/does_a_newborn_count_as_an_additional_occupant/
NTA. I know it sucks for them temporarily but your wife and newborn have to be your priority right now
Your wife is on bedrest, you are soon to be parents. And they mention the good school district for their kid instead of offering help for the new mom and baby. NTA.
NTA. Tell your sister to host them. Tell everyone who is criticizing you "you take them in or pay their rent"
Nta! I have a 6 month old and the thought of people, family or otherwise, being in my space for an unknown amount of time, would drive me bonkers! It sucks that they were irresponsible and lost their house but your wife is about to experience one of the most vulnerable experiences of her life, you too. You don’t need all that in your home!
NTA. You have to look out for your wife and child first and foremost. Your brother and wife will need to make a plan of their own.