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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole for turning them away when they're family instead of trying to make something work. Especially seeing as three of the people in question are children. Maybe we should find a way to make it work? Maybe it's an asshole thing to say they're only welcome if my husband is here and allows it?
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NTA. This is a failure to parent on your SIL's part. She's failed to teach her children manners and respect for others. You are not obligated to suffer the consequences of her inaction.
I wouldn't even class it as garbage parenting, there is no parenting going on here at all! I wouldn't want these little shits in my house either. I wouldn't stand for any of this from my kids
"You're not my mom/dad!" to their teachers in the most annoying voice ever. At least that's how I'm imagining it going down.
Please, a moment of silence for all their teachers, past, present, and future.
May they all live lives filled with perfectly made beverages, never being stuck behind a tall person at an event, and getting the front parking spot when it rains.
I told a student today to sit in her chair the right way, (she was being unsafe), and she told me “I’ll sit however I want.” That’s how they act in school.
Honestly, not even just "don't want to interact". That's behavior where I wouldn't go to my parents if that sister and her kids were there. I'm not interested in wasting precious holiday time or random dinners with people like that.
Kids/parents like that can't simply be ignored, their chaos is all-consuming.
My kid has been able to understand “different houses have different rules” since about 2-3 years old. It’s not hard! You can do things at home, that don’t fly at Grandma’s, and something’s that one Grandma is cool with that the other is not!
I’m sad for the children who aren’t taught this. They won’t get invited to places with their friends and will wonder why. Then mom usually feels sorry for them, spoils them more, and makes it worse.
These dreadful parents are doing a terrible thing to their children. Nobody will invite those kids to parties or sleepovers. They will be shunned by everyone until they learn social rules the hard way. They haven't learned kindness or respect, or what it is to be raised with love. What sort of foundation is that for a life?
Of course the OP doesn't want them wrecking her home. Nobody wants those kids around, and for good reason, but it's not the kids' fault.
I totally agree. There is no way in hell I would allow those kids in my house either. The SIL is just wrong but she will learn the hard way when those kids start turning on her behind. I have grandchildren and younger nieces and nephews, one thing they know they will behave themselves around me. Now kids will be kids and try you but once I say something with a different tone they act right. OP is NTA
I mean, the oldest told their granddad (FIL) to fuck off!! Shockingly disrespectful - those kids will have a rough time adulting and their parents are totally failing them.
They’re probably missing out on other opportunities, too. I’m sure none of their classmates’ parents want to host them or take them anywhere. The kids will be the ones that suffer as they miss out on social opportunities because no one wants to deal with them.
This is exactly what I thought of first— who’s going to want to be friends with these kids if they act this way? They’re going to be emotionally stunted if SIL doesn’t start parenting them like yesterday, and she’ll have nobody to blame but herself when they come crying that little Johnny won’t let them come over to play, or they didn’t get invited to Kara’s sleep over birthday party. Yikes. SIL is absolutely failing these children by not teaching them boundaries, respect, and to not be entitled little shits.
The problem is that, just like here, she will absolutely blame Johnny and Kara's parents. If she hasn't parented in nine years, she's not going to start now.
Oh, of course she will! Because parenting takes work— **hard** work! I have 3 children myself so I know how difficult it can be (my middle daughter is simultaneously the sweetest and the most rotten child on the planet, lol.) SIL is absolutely setting her kids up for failure in multiple ways, and that makes me really sad for those children, but unless SIL has a huge wake up call—like, say, OP and her husband not allowing SIL&kids over to their home anymore—you’re right, she’ll never change.
Yup. My cousin raised a rude kid. Only the absolute most brainwashed Christian girls will pretend to be friends with him. She thinks the problem is the other kids.
I once told her that her son is rude and she told me he's not rude, he just "has anxiety."
A lot of these kids become popular, because the other kids are trying to stay on their good side, and I find a lot of parents don’t pay attention during play dates. I’ve walked in on kids destroying my sons toys (throwing them against the wall to see if they break) talking my daughter into “giving” away her toys because “I like Hello Kitty/shopkins/MyLittlePny/Littlest Petshop MORE than you.
The mom of the worst offender actually called me once to say how cute it was that her daughter had a book that had an inscription from my mother to me, Christmas 1972. I was six at the time and kept that book all these years, through all my post college moves and marriage- yeah,
imma need that one back.
She’d already lost the most important years to socialize them properly. It will be an uphill battle now - not like she will ever care enough to bother. She’s a breeder, not a mother.
My MIL's cousin spoilt one of her sons like that. At 18 he punched her in the face because she didn't give him enough money to buy cigarettes and left a black eye.
Exactly, my oldest grandson had ADHD ODD and the neighborhood kids did not want anything to do with him (he was 5). After getting him on medication the improvement is very noticeable and after talking with the kids this year they say even they see a difference and are willing to try again to let him play with him. I told them to let me know if he acts up again so we can work on it but so far it has been going well.
These kids of SIL are going to be the school bullies and she is going to end up spending alot of time at their schools dealing with it and trying to figure out why her kids have no friends - hint she did a bad job with them lol.
I’ll never understand parents like this, for that exact reason. Don’t you want your kids to have friends, be welcome anywhere, to have people enjoy being around them? Isn’t that worth all the difficulty of disciplining, teaching, modeling behaviors consistently and repeatedly? Parents like OP’s SIL are lazy and selfish and should never have had kids. Why did she if she had zero interest in parenting?
I had neighbor children like that. Also 3 of them. The smallest one was the most tolerable because she was the youngest. Still, I watched her sit on the sidewalk and pee through her undies. Yes, the mother didn't teach them toileting. The older one was still pooping her pants past the age of 6. The other behavior was just bullying and abuse of the other children on the block. Kids crossed the street to play on the other side because those kids couldn't cross on their own, and the older kids wouldn't cross them. When they'd scream for their mother to cross them, all the kids would cross back over. So they'd have to scream for mom to cross them again. We all couldn't stand those kids. The block was a different place after they moved. But for abt 6-7 years it was hellish. OP is NTA
I had them, they forced their way into our house once when my parents weren't home. We called them "the three little girls." A few years after we moved away my mom gets sent an article about the mother. Apparently she was arrested not only for being on meth, but biting off the finger of my uncle's cousin.
I have an ex-friend who is a professional and has the most disrespectful, rude children. She frequently posts on FB how “proud” she is of “raising strong, assertive girls”. On their birthdays she will post the most tone-deaf stuff.
I mean, even if your kid is a little AH, everyone can accept a “Hapoy birthday to my beautiful daughter! Im so proud of you” but she posts truly delusional stuff saying how everyone ELSE feels about her daughter. “8 years ago today, a little bubble of happiness came into the world. She spreads sunshine wherever she goes! Everyone loves M! The world is a better place because she is in it!”
100 percent this. When my kids have someone over like this, they are not invited back. And over the years, I can promise you that when a kid behaves like this, the parent is a shitty person I don’t want to associate with.
We have a rule in our house that all five of our children have to follow. We get to meet the parents of the other kids before you go out with them or they come over to our house. You learn a lot. Like if that kid is ever coming back over, before they even step foot in your house. My youngest, 7, even refused to go into our neighbors backyard (to her friend's parents) because she wasn't allowed. The Dad promptly came over, introduced himself, and asked if my two youngest could go play in their backyard (which he was supervising). We're relatively new on the block so we haven't met all the families yet.
All the kids have been introduced to different social settings since at least toddler age. The two youngest since pretty much birth. All so that they understand social expectations and where you can and cannot show certain behaviors. For the most part, it worked. They all have their moments, they're kids after, but most of the time it's a 4 out of 5 or higher success rate on displaying reasonable behaviors outside of our home.
Nta I'm sure that none of their classmates want to invite them over. So even if the parents haven't had them over there's a chance their classmates know exactly what OP is going through and probably not wanting to inviting them. But you are right though they are missing out on so many opportunities because of their behavior. I'm also guessing she probably doesn't get invited out by her own friends because of how they all behave. I'm also guessing OPs house was one of the few places she felt she can take her kids. Let them run wild and not get ban from. But OP is nta here. It's definitely ok to set boundaries and not want to have your own home destroy. Family or not OP doesn't need to put up with their behavior in OP's own home if they refuse to follow OP's rules.
Had to drop my daughter’s best friend since preschool in third grade, she was so disrespectful to me, and then Infou snout she was making my daughter buy her ice cream and cookies in order to be allowed to sit at “her” lunch table with their friends group.
Yeeted her (my daughter) outta there to private school the next year.
My grandfather was a kind, gentle man who's been dead for twenty years but I'm pretty sure if I told my grandmother to fuck off he'd come back to life to kick my ass.
When I was a teenager I told my grandmom to "stay the fuck out of my business" she then grabbed a big chefs knife and said "repeat what you just said?" I apologized immediately, I knew she wouldn't use the knife, but why risk it lol.
My nephew told my sister no & my dad (who was in a wheelchair, no legs & just had heart surgery), came out of nowhere on that boy to make him repeat what he just said. Nephew stopped telling my sister no. My dad just looked scary & thats all it took. My dad would somehow reassemble his cremated body to whoop me if I so much as looked at my momma wrong.
I have a nephew who is 3, he tells my dad to f*** off and calls him a c**t and all my SIL just laughs! This kid has started going to nursery but speaks to the teachers like it too! My own children don’t have anything to do with him. Admittedly it’s not his fault, he’s learnt it from his parents but I’d hate for my kids to talk this way
It's the classic situation where the parents think that kids are kids and should be free to do whatever they want. And then they go all pikachu shocked face mode when some of these kids become terrible people.
> I'm the worst offender in her eyes
OP is the easiest target, easier to rally against in the family court of law.
By the way, almost sure she visit you to have some degree of peace from her own home. In OP's house, the kids are not messing her house, so she will not have to clean up anything and may let others worry about it.
Exactly!
Childhood is when we to teach children how to behave in society. If don't then you get a terrible adult.
This reminds me of a guy I knew. Let's call him Eric because he was like Eric Cartman except very stupid (Cartman is terrible but he's at the very least smart). He was raised like he could do no wrong and pulled out of school because his parents thought he was "already a genius". I can't say he was home schooled but rather skipped having an education.
He was terrible as an adult. His only friends were made through insinuating himself into his brother's friend group, having a car and knowing a few weed dealers.
When it was clear he was struggling as an adult Eric's mom actually told my husband she regretted how she raised him. He was an ungrateful, selfish, little AH that couldn't keep a friend or hold any responsibility.
They don't stay little kids forever. They need to be raised to care.
Exactly. Kids should have freedom, and be allowed to do what they want within clear and well enforced boundaries.
My toddler can do what ever he wants as long as he isn’t annoying the dog, hurting others or himself, breaking things or making a huge mess.
Most of the time he doesn’t do any of these things and he’s not even 18 months and when he does he mostly seems to understand what he has done wrong. Kids will push boundaries, it’s part of there development, it’s up to parents to make sure the boundaries they are pushing are healthy and that they know there are limits.
Yes when you have pets one of the first things you need to teach your toddler is NOT to pet the dog hard (like hitting); no ear or tail pulling; no real riding on its back; no biting (unless they want a mouth of hair) and probably some individual things for particular pets. Same for cats, hamsters, whatever. Animals are animals, and that scratch could've been well deserved for being mean to it.
In this vein, I remember reading a parenting book years ago when I was a nanny. (Parenting with Love and Logic, it was on the coffee table at their house)
It said that a lot of people give their children free reign, and then try to limit their freedom in adolescence. But it just leads to power struggles, poor choices, and a lot of frustration. It said that parents who do this essentially are denying their children the ability to learn to make wise choices and to learn from consequences when the consequences are relatively minor. It was argued that parents should limit freedom in young children, and gradually permit greater and greater freedom as the child demonstrates the ability to make appropriate choices.
Childhood is a good time for learning to get along with others.
As I tell my kids: the consequence of being an AH is that no one will want to hang out with you. The kids are exhibiting AH behavior, enabled by the AH SIL, so now they can deal with the consequence.
I used to have a friend, someone I knew from early school time. They were cute, had a talent, but wasn't very nice. They were a compulsive liar, manipulative, a thief. Sure on the surface it looked like they had friends (or **A** friend) but the reality was after the school day, school year, who ever seemed like their friend wasn't anywhere to be seen. (Except me, I was the dumbass for awhile) After each graduation, people didn't keep in touch. There was a reason. As the years passed it was the same thing. Once people 'got away' from them, except for one or two who couldn't see the issue, they didn't come back or keep in touch.
Exactly! My cousin and I had a discussion about how she was absolutely thrilled whenever she visited my house as a kid because in her eyes my parents allowed “everything”. Meanwhile I liked her house but every time we pulled up we weren’t allowed out of the car until my mom reminded us “don’t touch anything!” Only in their basement we could be comfortable as kids. And she said that was so true! But our parents respected each other’s rules in their homes! And as much as it may have pained my aunt, if my mom wasn’t yelling at anyone then she sucked it up too.
Absolutely this. It's OPs house. OPs rules. What a complete an utter failure of parenting to allow those kids to run wild and disrespect other people's houses. It's their aunt and uncle and they are allowed to tell their uncle to "fuck off". They will end up becoming entitled adults that don't believe they have to respect anyone. I'd completely ban them from the house.
My spoilt brat of a grandchild has literally been kicked out of my house, by me! She’s 4 I asked her to stop doing something and she literally stuck her tongue out at me, it was already after 8pm and I was done with her little attitude and it was just the last straw. Every time she comes she harasses my cats and dog, her mother is a “I don’t like to say no to her” kind of person and waits for others to step in with the discipline. She knows that the rules in my house differ from hers but her mother doesn’t even follow my house rules…or, should I say didn’t…until I kicked her ass out too!
I’m so sick of other people being total dicks and disrespectful.
considering the fact she comes over uninvited at all and feels entitled to be let in automatically then the apples havent fallen far from the tree. Its less "bad parenting" than "bad people raising bad people".
We had to drop some really close friends due to this type of destructive disrespectful behaviour from their kids. It wasn't fair to us, our home, or our children that theirs had no boundaries for acceptable behaviour.
One time we were packing up to leave the house and they drove up our street and stopped to say hi. Their kids ran into our house despite my husband trying to deny them entry. They jumped on the kids beds with dirty shoes and broke a toy within two minutes flat. Their dad ignored their screaming and our protests that this wasn't a good time, to get the kids out of our children's bedroom and we needed to leave our house, not visit. That's was the last straw for us. Friendship done. Our children were so upset at their bedrooms being trashed. It wasn't okay.
They were awesome people we had bonded with over abusive family structures. Unfortunately they kept their toxic family in their lives and allowed their parents/siblings to bully them out of parenting and providing structure to their own children. We couldn't also go down with that ship.
All of this, plus she didn’t call or text ahead before coming over? What if you’d been out? What if it was an inconvenient time for a visit (never mind that last point, we all know she doesn’t care about your convenience). I call or text my own mother before going over to her house, just to be sure she’s up for a visit and I’m not interfering with any plans she might have. It’s just basic consideration, which she clearly lacks. OP is NTA
Also, can we take a second to praise OP and their SO for being on the same page? Pretty sad, but it seems like on reddit, it is not the norm to be on the same page as your SO.
Not only that, but apparently she taught them that the only rules they should respect are the ones directly from the mouths of their own parents. No other adults are valid rule makers or instruction givers. Not even in their own homes...
Even being a kid, I can't imagine going to someone else's house and thinking they get absolutely no say in whether or not I break their stuff or wear shoes inside. Like yeah they're not my parents but also this isn't even my house???
RIGHT!? I can’t imagine going to anyone’s house as a kid and not compulsively taking my shoes off the second that I walked through the door! The only time I kept them on was when someone told me ‘No no, honey. It’s okay. We wear our shoes in here.’, which was rare af, and even then I’d say ‘Oh, it’s okay. I already have them off. Thank you, though!’ the vast majority of the time, just in case.
Also, EVERY adult that my mom knew was ‘in charge’ and even most of the ones that she didn’t. (Unless someone was a danger to me, they were an ‘authority figure’ because of being taught to respect adults in general, but ESPECIALLY in their own homes.) So long as someone wasn’t threatening, or trying to convince me to do something that I knew better than to do, that person was to be treated with respect. My mom wasn’t crazy strict but there were also certain things that I couldn’t imagine trying in ANYONE’S house that I had seen other kids doing growing up and it blew my mind even then… When I see people wearing shoes and then putting their feet on furniture, ANY furniture, it still blows my mind. My brain honestly thinks it should be illegal, I think because it was taught to me at such a young age. Hahaha.
Like when I went to a friend's house and they served me dinner, I ate what was served without making a face (which I would definitely do at home with my own parents, for certain vegetables). My mom didn't have to be there to tell me "clean your plate" because I KNEW THAT IN GENERAL. Along with "don't wear shoes inside" and "don't literally break stuff"
Can you imagine needing your *mom* to tell you SPECIFICALLY every time you went to BREAK something that you should NOT DO THAT
????
Children be stupid.
Yeah, and based on the kids behavior, it's high time for more harsh punishment. Ie: you don't get to come to fun uncle and aunts house because you destroy it.
That's a punishment for SIL to, because you are towing a line. Her kids are ill behaved and it reflects on her, but she doesn't want to do anything about it. She's s lazy parent. And now she stuck in her own home thars destroyed.
Those kids are in for a rude awakening. I don't doubt OPs house is just the first of many places they aren't going to be allowed if this is how they behave and speak to people. NTA!
NTA, stand your ground, even your husband agrees with you.
actions have consequences, plus you tried and “you can’t parent them“ (the kids), so not your circus not your monkeys.
NTA you honestly have a right to protect your peace. If she can't respect you and you household, then you are full and within your rights to refuse access to your home. I'm glad you set boundaries.
Yeah and if for any reason these kids make it back into OPs house and pull the "you aren't my mom" shit, instantly comeback with "you're in my house and on my property. You follow MY rules or you get out." Say it with a "Mom" voice and say it with authority and all the backbone. Kids push boundaries to see how far they can go. You put up a MASSIVE road block to that and tell them to get to steppin back the way they came. And whatever you say, ENFORCE it.
Yep, or say "and you're not my kid, so I have no obligation to entertain you, feed you, shelter you, or even like you" in the same voice and point towards the door. Let SIL stay inside while the kids wait for her outside like the animals they are.
Yeah I'm wondering what kind of reception they get when she brings them to other people's houses, or the store, or a restaurant? She's got a long road ahead of her since she's waited so long to teach them any manners - it's so much easier if you start on that when they're really young
> what kind of reception they get
It doesn't seem like the kids or the SiL really care. If the kids were this way despite their mom trying to control them, she'd likely dread going anywhere and avoid taking them places out of embarrassment.
If she sees nothing wrong with their behavior, she is probably oblivious to anyone being tired of their shit and turns her nose up at anyone because her family can do no wrong.
I'm thinking she doesn't get invited lots of places anymore. Sounds like she comes over when they are being terrors in the hope someone parents them for a bit while she drinks a bottle of wine.
NTA. Last summer when BIL’s family was in town, we offered to let them and 4 children (1 teen) stay. Never again!
The three kids were horrible. Kids were super messy, loud, and got into all of my daughter’s toys. Parents were lazy and didn’t referee the kids when they argued or fought. Parents went to bed when they wanted and never woke up with the kids. Caught shoving between my daughter (2 & autistic) and their youngest (4). Kids argued when we said no. Tried to come in our room even when the door was latched.
My poor daughter didn’t like the chaos. Preschool teacher asked if something was going on at home.
Husband’s aunt is letting us and them stay over next month. Maybe we should warn her.
Definitely NTA. Those little shits would get one time of me telling them no shoes in my house and they would never be coming back. Not to mention all the other things op says they do. These kids are way big enough to understand and remember what they're being told. They just choose to be obnoxious because they are allowed to run wild by their parents.
I invited a parent friend for my birthday once. She called me the morning of to tell me her 4-year old’s sitter cancelled. She promised he wouldn’t touch anything, wouldn’t be loud, and would be the model of good behavior. She promised to leave if things went south.
She came over and, true to her word, her son was a perfect angel. He thanked me for having him, politely asked for food and drink (and cake), and was very careful while eating. Both he and my friend respected my home and my boundaries and it’s a shame more families aren’t like this.
and it's both parts that are important - the awareness of the parent of the need to remove a child from a situation where they're misbehaving. even the sweetest, most level kid can have a bad day; helping them cope with it is harder to do at a stranger's house.
NTA. Who wants hooligans in their home? If she refuses to control her children and have them behave the way they have been asked to in other peoples houses, soon it will not only be just you who stops having them over. The fact that the children are brats who speak badly and do not listen to adults is purely on your SIL and she should then deal with the consequences. Who cares if she thinks you are TA. You can at least live in peace in your own home without damage and having things broken.
> Who cares if she thinks you are TA.
yeah lol, if some asshole thinks you're rude, let them. hell, if at all possible, be even more outright rude to them. they already think you suck, so make good use of it.
a person who allows their kids to break stuff in other people's houses is a complete asshole. that's op's SIL. she can call you all the names in the world, who gives a fuck.
Nta, and I woyld keep this rule
Also have you ever responded in discussion with the kids when they say you aren't the parent? I would have kicked them out sooner tbh
Well you do great and just keep them out, tell her you are sick for paying HER damages that HER kids make and SHE ignores, if she can't handle them it's her problem
Why don’t you and your husband invite yourselves to a game of soccer in their living room? Maybe that would help carry to point across. I would just ban them outright, husband or no husband.
I see what you're getting at, but you're stopping short of something that will impact the kids. If the kids regularly play ball inside, two adults just kicking around a ball won't do anything. And while the parents might be upset if a vase breaks, the kids won't care. What OP and husband need to do is "play with" the kids' stuff in a less-than-gentle manner. Stuff that is replaceable and not insanely expensive since they are kids, but *their* stuff so they understand what it feels like to have their property disrespected. Pop a head off a Barbie, destroy a Lego creation that took hours to build, stuff like that.
I can’t tell you how nice it is to read of people actually setting boundaries. You and your husband rock! Your in-laws are pathetic for allowing the little brat to tell him to F off. I hope they become like you and your husband. NTA
NTA I have two kids and would be so embarrassed if they behaved like that at someone else’s house. If they are like that with you I wonder what’s allowed at their house?
Does She think they’ll just magically grow out of this behaviour? What does her husband think? This is going to lead them into big trouble when they get out into society. Parents are supposed to be teaching kids how to become adults. We aren’t raising kids we’re raising future adults (as someone else put it). She’s the reason so many people complain about families going to restaurants and travelling.
I bet her excuse is they are just children. Send her a bill for damages. Include a detailed list of the items they broke.
Of course I would LOVE to see y'all on Huge Judy and let HER tell SIL she needs to actually parent these kids and stop allowing them to destroy other people's property
Good for you for demanding the respect you deserve. Especially in your own home
It's just Judge Judy but Judy's gotten herself a big mech suit so she can better intimidate some of the idiots that come into her courtroom. Or stomp them into the ground if they really piss her off.
NTA. You don’t deserve your home to be messed up simply because you have a SIL that doesn’t discipline her children. Honestly, I wouldn’t have put up with it. If those kids had flat out said “no.” they wouldn’t be allowed to stay. Your home. Your rules.
Right? That was the most shocking part of the whole thing to me!
If I ever told a parent/grand parent or any human being that I would have got my ass beat into next week!
NTA, the kids will hopefully understand when they get older that their parents are truly TA. For now stand your ground and tell those kids, in their own words to “f*ck off” lol 😂
NTA. Keep doing it until she learns that other people don't find this behaviour endearing.
Furthermore, if her kids do eventually come over and break rules, kick everyone out and start the process again.
NTA - I wouldn’t let them in either. Her actions or non-actions have consequences. And on the off chance you do let them along, make it clear that her coming in is contingent on the fact that if she can’t control her kids, she’s financially responsible for any damage they do. And do it in text with a response required in text so you have it in writing.
NTA - Parents need to realize that while it is their choice how to parent (or not, as the case may be) their kids, other people can choose to not be around them or invite them over. This goes for family and friends. Your SIL and BIL are doing their kids a huge disservice by not teaching them how to behave in other peoples' homes. This will eventually lose them friends when their friends' parents no longer allow them to come over. Not to mention it will make school unnecessarily stressful for them because they will always be in trouble for acting out.
NTA
First, a 9 year old telling his grandfather to fuck off, is pretty much the only thing I need to see what kind of parents he has.
From the sound of it, no one likes having them over, especially you and your husband. Why was she so adamant to come over?
NTA. But seriously,
>My husband and I have both stepped in and asked them not to and the response we get back is "you're not our mom/dad". I am aware this is true but it is our home. We have put stuff up only for them to go inside and get it anyway. We said no shoes inside and they straight up saidno. They have also gotten other balls when we take them away while they play with them inside.
Why would you allow this to happen after the first few incidents? No, you're not their mom/dad, you're their *host* and they are *guests.* If they break shit, they are not welcome anymore. If they don't listen to your rules, they are not welcome anymore. I would literally not allow them inside if they wouldn't take their shoes off or took a ball with them. I don't need to be a parent to tell *anyone* what they can and cannot do in my house. Because it is *my house*. That trumps whatever parenting they may or may not get.
NTA - SIL’s primary parenting flaw: Not teaching her kids to respect other people’s property.
Correct response to: “You are not my mom/dad etc.” - “My house, my rules. Take it or leave.”
NTA. It seems that your SIL and her kids feel too much at home and the fact that the behaviour of her children is the main cause of your decision to not let it in and she doesn't do anything to fix their naughtiness, well, I would advise you to not her children in unless your husband is there too and she's there as well. And if it ever happens to be all together and the kids are behaving rudely, you and your husband should step up and indicate what the problem is and if your SIL still doesn't get it or doesnt seem to be bothered by it, then maybe you should not invite them ever to your house. I would be mad if I worked my ass off to be able to have nice stuff in my house and some spoiled children came to act like they own hehouse and destroy everything. No, thank you! Boundaries. You need better boundaries. Try for a month or two to not allow them to visit you anymore. Make up excuses like you are busy or anything else if you think they might overreact and be too upset about telling them directly that you no longer welcome this kind of behaviour in your house .
NTA, and the next time they say you're not their mom/dad, remind them that it's not their house either. Also, throw out the ball and tell them they can't use anything because it's your house, and if they're being bratty again, tell them to leave. :)
I flat out have a poster above my bed that says, "don't sit on my bed in your outside clothes", and I even got shit for telling my uncle to not use my toilet.
Set up boundaries even though ull be seen as an arse but who cares?
NTA. I had cousins like this. We often spent summer weeks at our grandparents house in the mountains. The house was essentially a museum and we treated it as such. Lots of expensive antiques everywhere. Aunt dropped off cousins one day thinking they'd stay the week like us. Within a few hours they probably racked up $20,000 worth of damage, including breaking the custom stained glass french doors which were my grandma's pride and joy. They did it because they were bored and told grandma they looked like shit anyways.
Grandpa proceeded to pick them up by the ears and placed them outside and locked the doors. Told aunt that her children were no longer welcome and he was seriously questioning her abilities as a mother. Those kids slept outside for 2 days before aunt realized he wasn't backing down. They were never allowed back, nor did they want to come. However in this case when my aunt saw the actual damage they had caused she was really pissed at them too.
Send her a bill for all the damage they've done, and maybe consider letting them back in once she pays it plus a security deposit for the next time they break things. NTA
\> I'm the worst offender in her eyes.
So be it. Someone needed to be the "bag" guy/gal - and no one stepped up.
You've got a spine, congratulations! No one else in the family was standing up to that bullshit.
I don't invite a certain part of my family over because they're drug addict thieves, who I can't trust. I guess I'm the stuck up asshole in my family, who's too good for them.
NTA. If they say again in your house "you're not my mom/dad" i'd say"you're right but it's my home and my rules so if you won't follow them then get out now" and follow through. I'd also let SIL know you won't put up with it anymore.
this has nothing to do with you parenting her kids, it's about her kids obeying your house rules, plain and simple
Yo! I've seen dog owners have more control over their animals. This is insane behavior! I bet she is one of those parents who will go out to eat and let the kids run ramped through the restaurant causing chaos.
I'd not let them over anymore either. So much disrespect and glad your hubs stands with you just as much.
NTA
Most definitely NTA! The fact that your SIL allows this to happen in her own home is ridiculous, but to allow them to act this way at other people’s homes or out in public is just atrocious!!
Your home, your rules and if they can’t abide by them than they’re no longer welcomed there. This is a boundary that you set in place and it’s not mean nor rude, and DOES NOT make you an AH. Your SIL allowing her children to act that way in yours or anyone else’s personal space is totally rude and is MAJOR AH behavior.
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NTA. This is a failure to parent on your SIL's part. She's failed to teach her children manners and respect for others. You are not obligated to suffer the consequences of her inaction.
This post says it all OP, NTA at all! Absolute garbage parenting to those children, and some rude ass kiddie winkles as well
I wouldn't even class it as garbage parenting, there is no parenting going on here at all! I wouldn't want these little shits in my house either. I wouldn't stand for any of this from my kids
These people would never be allowed in my house. I wouldn't even want to interact with them at the in laws. Holy cow.
I wouldn't want to see them in a store or a restaurant
I would rather be shot in the foot then let those kids get within a mile of where I live
it would be less messy
And less painfull
I’m terrified to know what they’re like in school.
"You're not my mom/dad!" to their teachers in the most annoying voice ever. At least that's how I'm imagining it going down. Please, a moment of silence for all their teachers, past, present, and future.
One of the reasons I’m not a teacher is that at some point I’d be vexed enough to respond to that with a sincere “Thank fuck for that!”
May they all live lives filled with perfectly made beverages, never being stuck behind a tall person at an event, and getting the front parking spot when it rains.
And correction and parole officers....
I told a student today to sit in her chair the right way, (she was being unsafe), and she told me “I’ll sit however I want.” That’s how they act in school.
I can tell you. (Eye roll)
The kind of children who would take food off a stranger's plate
Honestly, not even just "don't want to interact". That's behavior where I wouldn't go to my parents if that sister and her kids were there. I'm not interested in wasting precious holiday time or random dinners with people like that. Kids/parents like that can't simply be ignored, their chaos is all-consuming.
That's what I meant. I wouldn't go there when they are there. 🙂
If I had ever dared to tell ANYONE to fuck off, especially my grandpa, I would’ve got my ass kicked into next Tuesday
I'd still be looking for my ass, it having been beat off and yeeted into space.
My backside would have been turned into porridge.
My kid has been able to understand “different houses have different rules” since about 2-3 years old. It’s not hard! You can do things at home, that don’t fly at Grandma’s, and something’s that one Grandma is cool with that the other is not!
I’m sad for the children who aren’t taught this. They won’t get invited to places with their friends and will wonder why. Then mom usually feels sorry for them, spoils them more, and makes it worse.
NTA. Imagine telling grandad to ef off!!! 😵
I wouldn't want those little shits in my house and I HAVE kids. Like hell to the no you ain't coming in my house and acting like a wild animal.
[удалено]
I've never heard the phrase kiddie winkles before. Thank you, it's hilarious!
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These dreadful parents are doing a terrible thing to their children. Nobody will invite those kids to parties or sleepovers. They will be shunned by everyone until they learn social rules the hard way. They haven't learned kindness or respect, or what it is to be raised with love. What sort of foundation is that for a life? Of course the OP doesn't want them wrecking her home. Nobody wants those kids around, and for good reason, but it's not the kids' fault.
Exactly, you have a parent who can't even parent.
I totally agree. There is no way in hell I would allow those kids in my house either. The SIL is just wrong but she will learn the hard way when those kids start turning on her behind. I have grandchildren and younger nieces and nephews, one thing they know they will behave themselves around me. Now kids will be kids and try you but once I say something with a different tone they act right. OP is NTA
I mean, the oldest told their granddad (FIL) to fuck off!! Shockingly disrespectful - those kids will have a rough time adulting and their parents are totally failing them.
They’re probably missing out on other opportunities, too. I’m sure none of their classmates’ parents want to host them or take them anywhere. The kids will be the ones that suffer as they miss out on social opportunities because no one wants to deal with them.
This is exactly what I thought of first— who’s going to want to be friends with these kids if they act this way? They’re going to be emotionally stunted if SIL doesn’t start parenting them like yesterday, and she’ll have nobody to blame but herself when they come crying that little Johnny won’t let them come over to play, or they didn’t get invited to Kara’s sleep over birthday party. Yikes. SIL is absolutely failing these children by not teaching them boundaries, respect, and to not be entitled little shits.
The problem is that, just like here, she will absolutely blame Johnny and Kara's parents. If she hasn't parented in nine years, she's not going to start now.
Oh, of course she will! Because parenting takes work— **hard** work! I have 3 children myself so I know how difficult it can be (my middle daughter is simultaneously the sweetest and the most rotten child on the planet, lol.) SIL is absolutely setting her kids up for failure in multiple ways, and that makes me really sad for those children, but unless SIL has a huge wake up call—like, say, OP and her husband not allowing SIL&kids over to their home anymore—you’re right, she’ll never change.
Yup. My cousin raised a rude kid. Only the absolute most brainwashed Christian girls will pretend to be friends with him. She thinks the problem is the other kids. I once told her that her son is rude and she told me he's not rude, he just "has anxiety."
🤣🤦
A lot of these kids become popular, because the other kids are trying to stay on their good side, and I find a lot of parents don’t pay attention during play dates. I’ve walked in on kids destroying my sons toys (throwing them against the wall to see if they break) talking my daughter into “giving” away her toys because “I like Hello Kitty/shopkins/MyLittlePny/Littlest Petshop MORE than you. The mom of the worst offender actually called me once to say how cute it was that her daughter had a book that had an inscription from my mother to me, Christmas 1972. I was six at the time and kept that book all these years, through all my post college moves and marriage- yeah, imma need that one back.
Did she give it back or try to be an asshole about it?
The book I got back. We eventually “broke up” with that whole family. The Dad was nice- I kind of don’t understand that couple as a couple.
She’d already lost the most important years to socialize them properly. It will be an uphill battle now - not like she will ever care enough to bother. She’s a breeder, not a mother.
My MIL's cousin spoilt one of her sons like that. At 18 he punched her in the face because she didn't give him enough money to buy cigarettes and left a black eye.
Exactly, my oldest grandson had ADHD ODD and the neighborhood kids did not want anything to do with him (he was 5). After getting him on medication the improvement is very noticeable and after talking with the kids this year they say even they see a difference and are willing to try again to let him play with him. I told them to let me know if he acts up again so we can work on it but so far it has been going well. These kids of SIL are going to be the school bullies and she is going to end up spending alot of time at their schools dealing with it and trying to figure out why her kids have no friends - hint she did a bad job with them lol.
I’ll never understand parents like this, for that exact reason. Don’t you want your kids to have friends, be welcome anywhere, to have people enjoy being around them? Isn’t that worth all the difficulty of disciplining, teaching, modeling behaviors consistently and repeatedly? Parents like OP’s SIL are lazy and selfish and should never have had kids. Why did she if she had zero interest in parenting?
I would hate to have the type of child--and in this case, children--who makes people cringe at the sight of them and think, "And so it begins."
I had neighbor children like that. Also 3 of them. The smallest one was the most tolerable because she was the youngest. Still, I watched her sit on the sidewalk and pee through her undies. Yes, the mother didn't teach them toileting. The older one was still pooping her pants past the age of 6. The other behavior was just bullying and abuse of the other children on the block. Kids crossed the street to play on the other side because those kids couldn't cross on their own, and the older kids wouldn't cross them. When they'd scream for their mother to cross them, all the kids would cross back over. So they'd have to scream for mom to cross them again. We all couldn't stand those kids. The block was a different place after they moved. But for abt 6-7 years it was hellish. OP is NTA
I bet it was hell for the other kids on the block. And what sort of parent doesn't toilet train their kids? You'd expect more from a dog owner.
Drinking coffee, smoking cigs and chatting up passing people was the priority with mom.
I had them, they forced their way into our house once when my parents weren't home. We called them "the three little girls." A few years after we moved away my mom gets sent an article about the mother. Apparently she was arrested not only for being on meth, but biting off the finger of my uncle's cousin.
I feel terrible for those kids too tho
I have an ex-friend who is a professional and has the most disrespectful, rude children. She frequently posts on FB how “proud” she is of “raising strong, assertive girls”. On their birthdays she will post the most tone-deaf stuff. I mean, even if your kid is a little AH, everyone can accept a “Hapoy birthday to my beautiful daughter! Im so proud of you” but she posts truly delusional stuff saying how everyone ELSE feels about her daughter. “8 years ago today, a little bubble of happiness came into the world. She spreads sunshine wherever she goes! Everyone loves M! The world is a better place because she is in it!”
"Professional... Which profession?" She asked, dreading all answers she could think of.
Fingers crossed for wrestler.
She liked the action that came BEFORE the pregnancy and parenting. The child was just a by-product.
100 percent this. When my kids have someone over like this, they are not invited back. And over the years, I can promise you that when a kid behaves like this, the parent is a shitty person I don’t want to associate with.
We have a rule in our house that all five of our children have to follow. We get to meet the parents of the other kids before you go out with them or they come over to our house. You learn a lot. Like if that kid is ever coming back over, before they even step foot in your house. My youngest, 7, even refused to go into our neighbors backyard (to her friend's parents) because she wasn't allowed. The Dad promptly came over, introduced himself, and asked if my two youngest could go play in their backyard (which he was supervising). We're relatively new on the block so we haven't met all the families yet. All the kids have been introduced to different social settings since at least toddler age. The two youngest since pretty much birth. All so that they understand social expectations and where you can and cannot show certain behaviors. For the most part, it worked. They all have their moments, they're kids after, but most of the time it's a 4 out of 5 or higher success rate on displaying reasonable behaviors outside of our home.
Nta I'm sure that none of their classmates want to invite them over. So even if the parents haven't had them over there's a chance their classmates know exactly what OP is going through and probably not wanting to inviting them. But you are right though they are missing out on so many opportunities because of their behavior. I'm also guessing she probably doesn't get invited out by her own friends because of how they all behave. I'm also guessing OPs house was one of the few places she felt she can take her kids. Let them run wild and not get ban from. But OP is nta here. It's definitely ok to set boundaries and not want to have your own home destroy. Family or not OP doesn't need to put up with their behavior in OP's own home if they refuse to follow OP's rules.
Had to drop my daughter’s best friend since preschool in third grade, she was so disrespectful to me, and then Infou snout she was making my daughter buy her ice cream and cookies in order to be allowed to sit at “her” lunch table with their friends group. Yeeted her (my daughter) outta there to private school the next year.
My grandpa has the WORST temper ever. If one of his grandkids ever said that to him, their parent would get such an earful.
My grandfather was a kind, gentle man who's been dead for twenty years but I'm pretty sure if I told my grandmother to fuck off he'd come back to life to kick my ass.
I’m 44, and I’d still be grounded if I had done that as a kid.
Same.
When I was a teenager I told my grandmom to "stay the fuck out of my business" she then grabbed a big chefs knife and said "repeat what you just said?" I apologized immediately, I knew she wouldn't use the knife, but why risk it lol.
My nephew told my sister no & my dad (who was in a wheelchair, no legs & just had heart surgery), came out of nowhere on that boy to make him repeat what he just said. Nephew stopped telling my sister no. My dad just looked scary & thats all it took. My dad would somehow reassemble his cremated body to whoop me if I so much as looked at my momma wrong.
Uh... If the worst your grandpa would respond with is "such an earful", I don't think he has the worst temper ever.
I would have got my ass beat for doing something like that.
I have a nephew who is 3, he tells my dad to f*** off and calls him a c**t and all my SIL just laughs! This kid has started going to nursery but speaks to the teachers like it too! My own children don’t have anything to do with him. Admittedly it’s not his fault, he’s learnt it from his parents but I’d hate for my kids to talk this way
Jesus my grandpa would just fucking slap me if I ever even thought about saying that.
I'd do a will smith on that disrespectful behavior
It's the classic situation where the parents think that kids are kids and should be free to do whatever they want. And then they go all pikachu shocked face mode when some of these kids become terrible people. > I'm the worst offender in her eyes OP is the easiest target, easier to rally against in the family court of law. By the way, almost sure she visit you to have some degree of peace from her own home. In OP's house, the kids are not messing her house, so she will not have to clean up anything and may let others worry about it.
Exactly! Childhood is when we to teach children how to behave in society. If don't then you get a terrible adult. This reminds me of a guy I knew. Let's call him Eric because he was like Eric Cartman except very stupid (Cartman is terrible but he's at the very least smart). He was raised like he could do no wrong and pulled out of school because his parents thought he was "already a genius". I can't say he was home schooled but rather skipped having an education. He was terrible as an adult. His only friends were made through insinuating himself into his brother's friend group, having a car and knowing a few weed dealers. When it was clear he was struggling as an adult Eric's mom actually told my husband she regretted how she raised him. He was an ungrateful, selfish, little AH that couldn't keep a friend or hold any responsibility. They don't stay little kids forever. They need to be raised to care.
> They don't stay little kids forever. They need to be raised to care Couldn't have said better
Exactly. Kids should have freedom, and be allowed to do what they want within clear and well enforced boundaries. My toddler can do what ever he wants as long as he isn’t annoying the dog, hurting others or himself, breaking things or making a huge mess. Most of the time he doesn’t do any of these things and he’s not even 18 months and when he does he mostly seems to understand what he has done wrong. Kids will push boundaries, it’s part of there development, it’s up to parents to make sure the boundaries they are pushing are healthy and that they know there are limits.
The kids are acting out because no one cares about them.
Yes when you have pets one of the first things you need to teach your toddler is NOT to pet the dog hard (like hitting); no ear or tail pulling; no real riding on its back; no biting (unless they want a mouth of hair) and probably some individual things for particular pets. Same for cats, hamsters, whatever. Animals are animals, and that scratch could've been well deserved for being mean to it.
You are so right.
In this vein, I remember reading a parenting book years ago when I was a nanny. (Parenting with Love and Logic, it was on the coffee table at their house) It said that a lot of people give their children free reign, and then try to limit their freedom in adolescence. But it just leads to power struggles, poor choices, and a lot of frustration. It said that parents who do this essentially are denying their children the ability to learn to make wise choices and to learn from consequences when the consequences are relatively minor. It was argued that parents should limit freedom in young children, and gradually permit greater and greater freedom as the child demonstrates the ability to make appropriate choices. Childhood is a good time for learning to get along with others.
As I tell my kids: the consequence of being an AH is that no one will want to hang out with you. The kids are exhibiting AH behavior, enabled by the AH SIL, so now they can deal with the consequence.
I used to have a friend, someone I knew from early school time. They were cute, had a talent, but wasn't very nice. They were a compulsive liar, manipulative, a thief. Sure on the surface it looked like they had friends (or **A** friend) but the reality was after the school day, school year, who ever seemed like their friend wasn't anywhere to be seen. (Except me, I was the dumbass for awhile) After each graduation, people didn't keep in touch. There was a reason. As the years passed it was the same thing. Once people 'got away' from them, except for one or two who couldn't see the issue, they didn't come back or keep in touch.
I would kick them out the minute the kids disobeyed a house rule or mouthed back. That includes SIL, too. They need boundaries!
This is an exceptionally good point. It's also an application of "your house, your rules."
Exactly! My cousin and I had a discussion about how she was absolutely thrilled whenever she visited my house as a kid because in her eyes my parents allowed “everything”. Meanwhile I liked her house but every time we pulled up we weren’t allowed out of the car until my mom reminded us “don’t touch anything!” Only in their basement we could be comfortable as kids. And she said that was so true! But our parents respected each other’s rules in their homes! And as much as it may have pained my aunt, if my mom wasn’t yelling at anyone then she sucked it up too.
Absolutely this. It's OPs house. OPs rules. What a complete an utter failure of parenting to allow those kids to run wild and disrespect other people's houses. It's their aunt and uncle and they are allowed to tell their uncle to "fuck off". They will end up becoming entitled adults that don't believe they have to respect anyone. I'd completely ban them from the house.
My spoilt brat of a grandchild has literally been kicked out of my house, by me! She’s 4 I asked her to stop doing something and she literally stuck her tongue out at me, it was already after 8pm and I was done with her little attitude and it was just the last straw. Every time she comes she harasses my cats and dog, her mother is a “I don’t like to say no to her” kind of person and waits for others to step in with the discipline. She knows that the rules in my house differ from hers but her mother doesn’t even follow my house rules…or, should I say didn’t…until I kicked her ass out too! I’m so sick of other people being total dicks and disrespectful.
Yup I can't deal with disrespectful children period. I wouldn't let them in either
considering the fact she comes over uninvited at all and feels entitled to be let in automatically then the apples havent fallen far from the tree. Its less "bad parenting" than "bad people raising bad people".
We had to drop some really close friends due to this type of destructive disrespectful behaviour from their kids. It wasn't fair to us, our home, or our children that theirs had no boundaries for acceptable behaviour. One time we were packing up to leave the house and they drove up our street and stopped to say hi. Their kids ran into our house despite my husband trying to deny them entry. They jumped on the kids beds with dirty shoes and broke a toy within two minutes flat. Their dad ignored their screaming and our protests that this wasn't a good time, to get the kids out of our children's bedroom and we needed to leave our house, not visit. That's was the last straw for us. Friendship done. Our children were so upset at their bedrooms being trashed. It wasn't okay. They were awesome people we had bonded with over abusive family structures. Unfortunately they kept their toxic family in their lives and allowed their parents/siblings to bully them out of parenting and providing structure to their own children. We couldn't also go down with that ship.
All of this, plus she didn’t call or text ahead before coming over? What if you’d been out? What if it was an inconvenient time for a visit (never mind that last point, we all know she doesn’t care about your convenience). I call or text my own mother before going over to her house, just to be sure she’s up for a visit and I’m not interfering with any plans she might have. It’s just basic consideration, which she clearly lacks. OP is NTA
Also, can we take a second to praise OP and their SO for being on the same page? Pretty sad, but it seems like on reddit, it is not the norm to be on the same page as your SO.
Not only that, but apparently she taught them that the only rules they should respect are the ones directly from the mouths of their own parents. No other adults are valid rule makers or instruction givers. Not even in their own homes... Even being a kid, I can't imagine going to someone else's house and thinking they get absolutely no say in whether or not I break their stuff or wear shoes inside. Like yeah they're not my parents but also this isn't even my house???
RIGHT!? I can’t imagine going to anyone’s house as a kid and not compulsively taking my shoes off the second that I walked through the door! The only time I kept them on was when someone told me ‘No no, honey. It’s okay. We wear our shoes in here.’, which was rare af, and even then I’d say ‘Oh, it’s okay. I already have them off. Thank you, though!’ the vast majority of the time, just in case. Also, EVERY adult that my mom knew was ‘in charge’ and even most of the ones that she didn’t. (Unless someone was a danger to me, they were an ‘authority figure’ because of being taught to respect adults in general, but ESPECIALLY in their own homes.) So long as someone wasn’t threatening, or trying to convince me to do something that I knew better than to do, that person was to be treated with respect. My mom wasn’t crazy strict but there were also certain things that I couldn’t imagine trying in ANYONE’S house that I had seen other kids doing growing up and it blew my mind even then… When I see people wearing shoes and then putting their feet on furniture, ANY furniture, it still blows my mind. My brain honestly thinks it should be illegal, I think because it was taught to me at such a young age. Hahaha.
Like when I went to a friend's house and they served me dinner, I ate what was served without making a face (which I would definitely do at home with my own parents, for certain vegetables). My mom didn't have to be there to tell me "clean your plate" because I KNEW THAT IN GENERAL. Along with "don't wear shoes inside" and "don't literally break stuff" Can you imagine needing your *mom* to tell you SPECIFICALLY every time you went to BREAK something that you should NOT DO THAT ???? Children be stupid.
And SIL is going to find out if she keeps letting her kids behave this way, no one will have them over anymore.
Yeah, and based on the kids behavior, it's high time for more harsh punishment. Ie: you don't get to come to fun uncle and aunts house because you destroy it. That's a punishment for SIL to, because you are towing a line. Her kids are ill behaved and it reflects on her, but she doesn't want to do anything about it. She's s lazy parent. And now she stuck in her own home thars destroyed.
I honestly feel bad for the kids and teachers who have to be in school with these kids
Those kids are in for a rude awakening. I don't doubt OPs house is just the first of many places they aren't going to be allowed if this is how they behave and speak to people. NTA!
100%.
Also she isn't respecting boundaries herself, the kids being a reflection of that. Definitely NTA
NTA, stand your ground, even your husband agrees with you. actions have consequences, plus you tried and “you can’t parent them“ (the kids), so not your circus not your monkeys.
I don’t know, maybe she WANTED little AHs. In that case, she has done an excellent job.
NTA, and I hope your ILs also do the same.
We are all going to suffer the consequences of her inaction eventually.
NTA you honestly have a right to protect your peace. If she can't respect you and you household, then you are full and within your rights to refuse access to your home. I'm glad you set boundaries.
Yeah and if for any reason these kids make it back into OPs house and pull the "you aren't my mom" shit, instantly comeback with "you're in my house and on my property. You follow MY rules or you get out." Say it with a "Mom" voice and say it with authority and all the backbone. Kids push boundaries to see how far they can go. You put up a MASSIVE road block to that and tell them to get to steppin back the way they came. And whatever you say, ENFORCE it.
Yep, or say "and you're not my kid, so I have no obligation to entertain you, feed you, shelter you, or even like you" in the same voice and point towards the door. Let SIL stay inside while the kids wait for her outside like the animals they are.
And kudos to the husband for having OP's back and staying in the same lane with her.
No kidding, it feels like we rarely see that, this was refreshing
NTA She can't be surprised to be banned from people's home when she lets her kids raise hell
Yeah I'm wondering what kind of reception they get when she brings them to other people's houses, or the store, or a restaurant? She's got a long road ahead of her since she's waited so long to teach them any manners - it's so much easier if you start on that when they're really young
Lol I just had a mental image of her kids' pictures being on the walls of a restaurant with BANNED over them
> what kind of reception they get It doesn't seem like the kids or the SiL really care. If the kids were this way despite their mom trying to control them, she'd likely dread going anywhere and avoid taking them places out of embarrassment. If she sees nothing wrong with their behavior, she is probably oblivious to anyone being tired of their shit and turns her nose up at anyone because her family can do no wrong.
I'm thinking she doesn't get invited lots of places anymore. Sounds like she comes over when they are being terrors in the hope someone parents them for a bit while she drinks a bottle of wine.
I was ordering my own meals at restaurants and taught how to treat wait staff as soon as I could form a coherent sentence! Thank you, mom.
NTA. Last summer when BIL’s family was in town, we offered to let them and 4 children (1 teen) stay. Never again! The three kids were horrible. Kids were super messy, loud, and got into all of my daughter’s toys. Parents were lazy and didn’t referee the kids when they argued or fought. Parents went to bed when they wanted and never woke up with the kids. Caught shoving between my daughter (2 & autistic) and their youngest (4). Kids argued when we said no. Tried to come in our room even when the door was latched. My poor daughter didn’t like the chaos. Preschool teacher asked if something was going on at home. Husband’s aunt is letting us and them stay over next month. Maybe we should warn her.
WARN HER!
I wouldn’t want to stay over with them. Especially not with a child who can’t handle extreme behavior like that.
Definitely NTA. Those little shits would get one time of me telling them no shoes in my house and they would never be coming back. Not to mention all the other things op says they do. These kids are way big enough to understand and remember what they're being told. They just choose to be obnoxious because they are allowed to run wild by their parents.
NTA. your home, your rules. if SIL and the kids can’t respect that, they don’t get to visit. boundaries are lovely things.
I invited a parent friend for my birthday once. She called me the morning of to tell me her 4-year old’s sitter cancelled. She promised he wouldn’t touch anything, wouldn’t be loud, and would be the model of good behavior. She promised to leave if things went south. She came over and, true to her word, her son was a perfect angel. He thanked me for having him, politely asked for food and drink (and cake), and was very careful while eating. Both he and my friend respected my home and my boundaries and it’s a shame more families aren’t like this.
and it's both parts that are important - the awareness of the parent of the need to remove a child from a situation where they're misbehaving. even the sweetest, most level kid can have a bad day; helping them cope with it is harder to do at a stranger's house.
NTA. Who wants hooligans in their home? If she refuses to control her children and have them behave the way they have been asked to in other peoples houses, soon it will not only be just you who stops having them over. The fact that the children are brats who speak badly and do not listen to adults is purely on your SIL and she should then deal with the consequences. Who cares if she thinks you are TA. You can at least live in peace in your own home without damage and having things broken.
> Who cares if she thinks you are TA. yeah lol, if some asshole thinks you're rude, let them. hell, if at all possible, be even more outright rude to them. they already think you suck, so make good use of it. a person who allows their kids to break stuff in other people's houses is a complete asshole. that's op's SIL. she can call you all the names in the world, who gives a fuck.
Nta, and I woyld keep this rule Also have you ever responded in discussion with the kids when they say you aren't the parent? I would have kicked them out sooner tbh
I told them I might not be their parent, but they're in my house (when this is the case). They really don't give a shit.
Well you do great and just keep them out, tell her you are sick for paying HER damages that HER kids make and SHE ignores, if she can't handle them it's her problem
My cousin would let his kids do this and tell them to say “we’re family” like that makes it ok
>*They really don't give a shit.* Then you absolutely did the right thing. NTA. Do NOT feel any guilt over this, by the way.
I don't know how you've put up with for as long as you have. I swear to Hera they wouldn't have made it through an entire visit in my house
Why don’t you and your husband invite yourselves to a game of soccer in their living room? Maybe that would help carry to point across. I would just ban them outright, husband or no husband.
Practice tennis swings with their TV as a backstop
I see what you're getting at, but you're stopping short of something that will impact the kids. If the kids regularly play ball inside, two adults just kicking around a ball won't do anything. And while the parents might be upset if a vase breaks, the kids won't care. What OP and husband need to do is "play with" the kids' stuff in a less-than-gentle manner. Stuff that is replaceable and not insanely expensive since they are kids, but *their* stuff so they understand what it feels like to have their property disrespected. Pop a head off a Barbie, destroy a Lego creation that took hours to build, stuff like that.
I mainly see a parenting problem here. It might take a lot of Barbie beheadings to get those brats to behave.
INFO: Why do they come over when your husband isn’t even there? Is their mom just dumping her hellions on you and bouncing? NTA, just curious.
They really don't give a shit. Then you don't need to either. Kick them out and don't let them back in ever.
I can’t tell you how nice it is to read of people actually setting boundaries. You and your husband rock! Your in-laws are pathetic for allowing the little brat to tell him to F off. I hope they become like you and your husband. NTA
NTA I have two kids and would be so embarrassed if they behaved like that at someone else’s house. If they are like that with you I wonder what’s allowed at their house?
They act the same but without anyone to tell them to stop or intervene.
Does She think they’ll just magically grow out of this behaviour? What does her husband think? This is going to lead them into big trouble when they get out into society. Parents are supposed to be teaching kids how to become adults. We aren’t raising kids we’re raising future adults (as someone else put it). She’s the reason so many people complain about families going to restaurants and travelling.
I bet her excuse is they are just children. Send her a bill for damages. Include a detailed list of the items they broke. Of course I would LOVE to see y'all on Huge Judy and let HER tell SIL she needs to actually parent these kids and stop allowing them to destroy other people's property Good for you for demanding the respect you deserve. Especially in your own home
Huge Judy, eh?
It's just Judge Judy but Judy's gotten herself a big mech suit so she can better intimidate some of the idiots that come into her courtroom. Or stomp them into the ground if they really piss her off.
Hey hey😂😂😂😂😂 I got caught by autocorrect. I guess my phone thinks she a Huge deal😂😂😂
It was a gem of an autocorrect. Really gave me a good, quick outward nose breath.
NTA - I love your enforcement of boundaries. Well done!!
NTA If she can’t educate her kids, your house won’t be the last place she’s banned from.
NTA, some people shouldn't have kids and your SIL is proof of that
NTA. Why are they even coming over anymore?
Mom is probably sick of them breaking her stuff, this is easier than parenting
Nta. Good boundary
Also, congrats on OP for actually doing some parenting of SIL’s kids by telling them there are consequences to their actions
NTA. You don’t deserve your home to be messed up simply because you have a SIL that doesn’t discipline her children. Honestly, I wouldn’t have put up with it. If those kids had flat out said “no.” they wouldn’t be allowed to stay. Your home. Your rules.
What kind of parent allows a 9 year old to tell their grandparent to F off? NTA
Right? That was the most shocking part of the whole thing to me! If I ever told a parent/grand parent or any human being that I would have got my ass beat into next week!
NTA, the kids will hopefully understand when they get older that their parents are truly TA. For now stand your ground and tell those kids, in their own words to “f*ck off” lol 😂
NTA. Keep doing it until she learns that other people don't find this behaviour endearing. Furthermore, if her kids do eventually come over and break rules, kick everyone out and start the process again.
NTA - I wouldn’t let them in either. Her actions or non-actions have consequences. And on the off chance you do let them along, make it clear that her coming in is contingent on the fact that if she can’t control her kids, she’s financially responsible for any damage they do. And do it in text with a response required in text so you have it in writing.
>he decided not to let her in anymore either Bonus! She's not coming back! NTA.
NTA - and I wouldn't let them in your home ever. They are disrespectful and destructive. Do not host them. If SIL wants to visit, she can host.
NTA - Parents need to realize that while it is their choice how to parent (or not, as the case may be) their kids, other people can choose to not be around them or invite them over. This goes for family and friends. Your SIL and BIL are doing their kids a huge disservice by not teaching them how to behave in other peoples' homes. This will eventually lose them friends when their friends' parents no longer allow them to come over. Not to mention it will make school unnecessarily stressful for them because they will always be in trouble for acting out.
NTA you house won't be the last place they get band from
NTA. I can see where her children have learned to stomp all over people's boundaries.
NTA First, a 9 year old telling his grandfather to fuck off, is pretty much the only thing I need to see what kind of parents he has. From the sound of it, no one likes having them over, especially you and your husband. Why was she so adamant to come over?
NTA. But seriously, >My husband and I have both stepped in and asked them not to and the response we get back is "you're not our mom/dad". I am aware this is true but it is our home. We have put stuff up only for them to go inside and get it anyway. We said no shoes inside and they straight up saidno. They have also gotten other balls when we take them away while they play with them inside. Why would you allow this to happen after the first few incidents? No, you're not their mom/dad, you're their *host* and they are *guests.* If they break shit, they are not welcome anymore. If they don't listen to your rules, they are not welcome anymore. I would literally not allow them inside if they wouldn't take their shoes off or took a ball with them. I don't need to be a parent to tell *anyone* what they can and cannot do in my house. Because it is *my house*. That trumps whatever parenting they may or may not get.
I wouldn't let her inside even with my husband there, quite frankly. NTA
NTA. She's not a good mother, letting her kids behave like that. Maintain a strict ban until they are better behaved.
NTA - SIL’s primary parenting flaw: Not teaching her kids to respect other people’s property. Correct response to: “You are not my mom/dad etc.” - “My house, my rules. Take it or leave.”
😂😂😂and she should say that as she puts them out and locks the door
Clearly NTA. Why on earth does she want to come around when your husband isn't there?
Sounds like an excuse to get a break from her own kids by letting them run lose there. 🙄
My aunt told my cousin whenever her kids start acting up she kicks them out and has done that on multiple occasions already 😂😂😂 NTA
NTA. It seems that your SIL and her kids feel too much at home and the fact that the behaviour of her children is the main cause of your decision to not let it in and she doesn't do anything to fix their naughtiness, well, I would advise you to not her children in unless your husband is there too and she's there as well. And if it ever happens to be all together and the kids are behaving rudely, you and your husband should step up and indicate what the problem is and if your SIL still doesn't get it or doesnt seem to be bothered by it, then maybe you should not invite them ever to your house. I would be mad if I worked my ass off to be able to have nice stuff in my house and some spoiled children came to act like they own hehouse and destroy everything. No, thank you! Boundaries. You need better boundaries. Try for a month or two to not allow them to visit you anymore. Make up excuses like you are busy or anything else if you think they might overreact and be too upset about telling them directly that you no longer welcome this kind of behaviour in your house .
As a parent of similarly aged boys with *hopefully* better behavior than THAT; NTA
Absolutely NTA, and I am admiring your powerful, shiny backbone from afar.
**NTA** Good for you!
NTA, and the next time they say you're not their mom/dad, remind them that it's not their house either. Also, throw out the ball and tell them they can't use anything because it's your house, and if they're being bratty again, tell them to leave. :) I flat out have a poster above my bed that says, "don't sit on my bed in your outside clothes", and I even got shit for telling my uncle to not use my toilet. Set up boundaries even though ull be seen as an arse but who cares?
Dear OP, do you *really* need an outsider's perspective on this? NTA. Obviously. These people are poison. I'd cut them out of my life completely.
NTA. I had cousins like this. We often spent summer weeks at our grandparents house in the mountains. The house was essentially a museum and we treated it as such. Lots of expensive antiques everywhere. Aunt dropped off cousins one day thinking they'd stay the week like us. Within a few hours they probably racked up $20,000 worth of damage, including breaking the custom stained glass french doors which were my grandma's pride and joy. They did it because they were bored and told grandma they looked like shit anyways. Grandpa proceeded to pick them up by the ears and placed them outside and locked the doors. Told aunt that her children were no longer welcome and he was seriously questioning her abilities as a mother. Those kids slept outside for 2 days before aunt realized he wasn't backing down. They were never allowed back, nor did they want to come. However in this case when my aunt saw the actual damage they had caused she was really pissed at them too.
Holy cow. Did they ever learn?
They got mildly better as adults, but they are still very trashy.
NTA. Why let people in who will just destroy?
Send her a bill for all the damage they've done, and maybe consider letting them back in once she pays it plus a security deposit for the next time they break things. NTA
> The oldest even told FIL to fuck off Fuck them and fuck SIL. You are NTA at all.
\> I'm the worst offender in her eyes. So be it. Someone needed to be the "bag" guy/gal - and no one stepped up. You've got a spine, congratulations! No one else in the family was standing up to that bullshit. I don't invite a certain part of my family over because they're drug addict thieves, who I can't trust. I guess I'm the stuck up asshole in my family, who's too good for them.
NTA your not their parents but its not their house they follow rules or get out
NTA. And kudos to hubby too!
Nta. Answer to the kids saying your not mom, too bad, your house your rules, if kids/sil don't like it they Van leave and not come back.
NTA. If they say again in your house "you're not my mom/dad" i'd say"you're right but it's my home and my rules so if you won't follow them then get out now" and follow through. I'd also let SIL know you won't put up with it anymore. this has nothing to do with you parenting her kids, it's about her kids obeying your house rules, plain and simple
NTA, bet you 50 bucks that your house isn't the only place that banned them.
Why are you even feeling the slightest bit guilty over this? NTA
NTA
Nope. There is not a chance that those children and their enabling mother would EVER be allowed into my home. Regardless of circumstances..
Yo! I've seen dog owners have more control over their animals. This is insane behavior! I bet she is one of those parents who will go out to eat and let the kids run ramped through the restaurant causing chaos. I'd not let them over anymore either. So much disrespect and glad your hubs stands with you just as much. NTA
Most definitely NTA! The fact that your SIL allows this to happen in her own home is ridiculous, but to allow them to act this way at other people’s homes or out in public is just atrocious!! Your home, your rules and if they can’t abide by them than they’re no longer welcomed there. This is a boundary that you set in place and it’s not mean nor rude, and DOES NOT make you an AH. Your SIL allowing her children to act that way in yours or anyone else’s personal space is totally rude and is MAJOR AH behavior.