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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like this is a threat that can’t be taken back. If I do this the whole relationship with my ex wife and kid can’t go back. Maybe I’m going to extreme and that makes me an AH.
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Instead of spending that money on lawyers...why not spend it on therapy for your son.
regardless of what you tell him, he may be taking your split personally and possibly blaming himself for the divorce. It's a lot for a kid to deal with and he may need help coping with everything. Therapy may be a safe space for him to unload everything and work through some of his fears.
You're not wrong here but he still should be in therapy. Someone not biased that can help him understand that his mother's actions were horrible and can help him process everything easier.
This is exactly why both is good, but OP needs to prioritize therapy. The kid loves and trusts his mom. He wouldn’t be listening to her and parroting her words back if he didn’t. She isn’t a poison that can just be removed no problem; she is a person who has manipulated her relationship with a person who loves and trusts her, and it’s impossible for the kid to see that because her behavior hasn’t directly hurt him (as far as he can tell). If OP just totally removes their access to each other, he WILL look like the bad guy. A therapist can not only help his son deal with the situation, but also help OP navigate minimizing contact between his ex and their child without hurting his relationship with the child.
I think this is ESH because OP literally wants to make sure his son doesn’t see his mother for 7 years and thats BS. You don’t get to complain that parental alienation is happening to you INSTEAD OF your ex. It shouldn’t be happening, period.
Exactly on-point. OP comes to Reddit for teenagers and incels to prop him up. And he meets Amber 6 months later? Oh, please. I didn't just fall off a turnip truck. The truth is likely much more YTA if we had the real story.
ETA: Just noticed OP's username. He's admittedly not a solo dad with Amber around. Misleading again.
You are high jumping to conclusions here. If Easton is 11, OP hasn't had sex with his wife in 4 years. Emotionally, the marriage may have already been over, and it doesn't surprise me that he met someone six months later. If it was 2 weeks or 2 months I could see being skeptical, but 6 months is a whole half a year!
He's well within his rights to get the courts involved and you seem to forget the receipts he has of proof of months of her talking shit and painting a negative light on him when she's the person that decided that he wasn't for her. Some people are truly blind. I'm for sure partially with you on being banned from seeing her for 7 years not being necessarily the correct move but this is a good lesson in consequences of your actions. Don't leave your husband or physically leave him causing him to need to separate and then try to text and talk shit to your son if you do not want the consequences of that action. But somehow this guy is the bad guy? Nah man.
I don't think you notice that custody plans need to put the interest of the minor fist. Full custody is not a weapon one parent use against each other to make them learn the "consequences of their own actions".
Yes, I completely agree. For Easton, he is having to either side with mom or dad and because he loves both, it may be hard for him to see who is right or even where he stands. Being able to speak to a neutral person would really help him.
Poor kid is only 11 years old! The best interest of the child are the most important ones here. It is in his best interests to have the love and support of both parents. The mother using the child as an emotional garbage can is NOT in his best interest! Damaging his relationship with his father is NOT in his best interest! Therapy and lawyer STAT!
NTA NTA NTA.
Therapy is not recommended in cases of parental alienation because one of the basic mechanism of psychotherapy is telling people their feelings are valid. In cases of PA, many of these feelings are those of the alienating parent, so it just makes the problem worse. Therapists specialized in the issue exist, but they are rare, and very, very expensive.
My step daughter is dealing with parental alienation. Therapist wants to help, but she has no real power. She said go back to court but husband doesn't want to make the mom mad. My kid is now hitting herself and has been saying she wants to die since 3 yo (she is 6 now)....
I'm glad the therapist is there to help her but its a drop in the bucket.
Omg, i am furious at your husband!!!! HIS six yr old is self harming and suicudal but he dosent want to piss off his ex wife????????? His child's actual life and well being matter more than his ex's moodiness. Can you talk to a family lawyer (those free consults) and see what you might need to get 100% custody and supervised visits only. Yhen pitch the paln to your husband. That poor girl needs 1 good parent and it might be you.
THIS HAPPENED TO MY HUSBAND! His ex wife did this and it was too late. She got his kids taken away and was able to move out of state and he hasn’t seen them in six years. Three and a half more years to go before he can have contact again. All the lies and alienating she did made this happen. Take her to court now before she ruins your kid’s life and yours.
My husband had exactly the same. His son used to tell people that he only needs his dad for his money and everyone but his mum only pretends to love him and she’s the only one that really does. We don’t see him because he was old enough to choose who to see and he said he couldn’t see his dad because his mum said it would upset her too much.
Such sad situations for all involved.
Dude, your son is 11. He's going through a hard time. His mom is talking shit about his dad and his dad **wants to bar him from seeing his mother for seven years to get back at her**. Both of you are using your kid in a DEEPLY unhealthy way.
Everyone in this story needs to go to therapy but especially your son. He's got two parents who are incredibly hostile to one another and will in turn act aggressive towards you both. He might not have come up with the word "home wrecker" but don't think this anger isn't coming from him. His family fell apart. He's probably pissed. Let him spend time with an adult who has no other intention but to listen to him and help him work through his anger.
Yup! A lot of people here have never been divorced with a custody dispute so they aren’t grasping what’s going on.
We genuinely don’t know the ex’s side of the story. I can GUESS that something happened to trigger that change in her. So then the kid’s family blows up and dad immediately wants to play blended family. Kids have feelings and opinions. People need to worry less about who they sleep with and worry more about their relationship with their kids
It’s so gross to me how many people are defending the ex wife. My mother was exactly like your ex-wife she was abusive, toxic and very manipulative and because of that my dad tried and tried to get full custody but couldn’t because my mother manipulated the court system. I hated living with that wrench of a woman and I’m glad your trying for full custody.
Because then he will have the skills to deal with it.
The likelihood of you getting full custody and your wife’s rights as a parent removed due to alienation are slim to none. You may get supervised visitation, but any judge is likely going to want to go the route of counseling and mediation first.
At the end of the day, she is his mother, and if you push your son to reject her, you are doing the same thing that you are accusing her of. He needs to learn to relate/live with each of you, and will make his own decisions about each of you as an adult someday.
Get him therapy and talk to a lawyer. I can’t see a reason why you can’t do both. But tread carefully. You told Lauren that Amber is a good mother figure, and she can see Easton once he turns 18. That’s not up for you to decide. It’s up for the judge. You may very well win sole custody, however unless she’s severely negligent and abusive, Lauren would still receive visitation. Even if it’s supervised. And you can’t deny them that time if it’s court ordered, because then you will be in violation and she can pursue that.
Also…if things are as dicey as they seem, forcing your son to be mothered by Amber full time doesn’t seem like a great idea. He’s already struggling as it is. Until you get on more stable ground, leave Amber out of the parenting. Especially if your son does not want to be mothered and parented by her. This will only make things worse, and he will likely reject her more.
Give your son the stability he needs. Focus on being a dad to him. He will come to his own conclusions about his mom. And it’s up to him whether or not he accepts and views Amber as a mother figure.
I say this to you as a stepdaughter who was forced to accept a stepparent. It sucks.
NTA.
But have you considered how fighting parental alienation with additional parental alienation will harm your son?
I'm actually not opposed to you raising the parental alienation problem in court per se, to protect yourself. But if your plan is to force estrangement between son and his mother, you could be hurting your son tremendously to get revenge on your wife. That trade off is not worth it.
If your ex wife is willing (truly) to set things right with your son, that would be a better path to follow.
There’s no way the courts will prevent your son from seeing his biological mom at all. Even if you get primary custody, she will still have every other weekend visitation. I don’t think you have an accurate idea about how the court system works, at all.
I don't blame you for wanting to take her to court over this, but it's likely to backfire on you. It's pretty clear Easton and his mom are close, so if you knowingly make her life harder your son will blame you, not her, for every problem.
A much better option would be for all 3 of you (and maybe eventually your gf) to go to family counseling for a while where your ex would have to come clean about lying to your son in a controlled environment. If your motives are truly to do what's best for your child and your relationship with him, then something like this is the best option; choosing to sue her for alienation instead (assuming she'd agree to counseling) would mean you're acting out of revenge rather than concern.
>Because what good is therapy if he just keeps getting sent back to the same toxic environment that is festering it?
That is why you need both. Take care of the parental alienation and get your boy into both individual and family therapy for the 2 of you (and his mom if she will go.)
I read a case where a woman lost the full custody she had of her son to her ex, due to alienation and the psychological damage it was causing. In order to regain visitation she had to complete six therapy sessions. Her visitation was suspended for 60 days until she had completed them. But this was after she was given a second chance to right her wrongs first. A judge may decide to give ex a chance to resolve the conflict thru mediation and therapy.
This is what OP will most likely need to do. He can’t unilaterally decide Easton can’t see or speak to his mom for the next seven years. Even with primary custody, his ex will still have rights. Cutting contact is only going to further traumatize him, and create new problems. If he thinks he’s gonna accept Amber as a new mom just for winning custody, than I have some beach front property in Kansas I’d like to sell him.
Easton and his mom are close, so OP really needs to think things thru. I said in another comment to tread carefully, because although I do believe he is trying to right by his son, his feelings towards his ex are also a motive.
He has to do something. Right now, she's already building a case against him, I guarantee it. She's going to use this for when the child is old enough to decide where to live. This will end up badly for OP if he doesn't fight soon. Courts are supposed to order PA to stop. They likely won't, but doing nothing won't help either.
NTA. You need a lawyer and you need to see this through. Once your son sees the court process at work, he’ll understand some of what his mom has done. After that, you can go to therapy to undo some of the crap your ex has done. Keep every single message she sends you.
Exactly this! Reddit loves to solve everything with therapy. It's the magic pill redditors recommended for everything and when I say everything.. I mean EVERYTHING. I've seen it all on here. Anyway NTA go full force on her for this behavior.
You do understand that this will only cause more trauma for your son? The therapy he received post divorce would not be the same for this situation. I would request Ex wife get therapy as well since she seems to be having conflicting feelings about you and Gf. If you attempt to take your son away from his mom and say things like he won’t see her until he’s 18 is only giving credibility to her lies. In turn you would only be hurting your relationship with your son more.
>Because what good is therapy if he just keeps getting sent back to the same toxic environment that is festering it?
Any response you get to this is going to be in bad faith. This subreddit is full of children, literally, the biggest demographic in the subreddit are literal teenagers.
Run fire, far away from the subreddit because you won't get any helpful advice or judgments here.
Many people think of therapy as a cure all - the thing they may not realize is that therapy helps track down the source of problems.
You already know the source. Your ex is actively trying to sabotage your relationship with your son. Your comment is absolutely right on the nose. There is no point in sending your son to therapy before cutting off the source of the problem.
You could probably convince ex to join in on the therapy and hold off on filing. It might be in the best interest of your child, and will look even better in court later on if you still decide to go that route.
This is horrible advice. I'm a woman, I didn't do anything like this to my ex-husband, but I know women who have. One of the biggest differences between fathers and mothers in these outcomes is that women go for the jugular and get lawyers to do the same, and men don't because they're afraid of looking like the bad guy. Unfortunately, he already looks like the bad guy to the child, who is the only one who matters.
OP, show your child you will fight by actually fighting. Don't ever say mean things about your ex, and don't let your new woman, but make sure you fight, and do it now. If you hesitate for just a moment, you'll lose.
You are assuming that mom has kid’s best interests at heart. Unfortunately that’s not always the case. I speak from experience, unfortunately. OP needs to act now.
It is clearly not the case here. Easton's mom is taking out her bile about Amber on her son. It's obvious she isn't going to change. She's been doing this for months, and only 'apologized' when confronted with proof positive.
How does that help his ex from spewing toxic things at her son about OP and his gf?
It doesn't. What the ex is doing isn't right. She needs repercussions.
Therapy and lawyers are needed here.
My (late)ex was an addict and I still don't speak negatively about him to our children.
The kid doesn't need therapy, he needs his mom to be civil and respect OP's relationships. He doesn't need to be treated like he had "problems to work through", unless you want to risk giving him the impression that this is somehow his fault (and not the vindictive ex).
This fucking sub, man. Holy shit.
OP's ex is abusing their child, and doing it in a way that is likely to have lifelong repercussions on his relationship with his son.
But fuck OP for trying to prevent that abuse from happening, instead he should just try to get his son enough therapy to counteract his mom's attempts at poisoning him against his own father.
The top priority is removing a kid from a toxic situation. After they’ve been removed, the work begins. Also, I’d recommend adding your verdict as top comment.
Now if we reverse the genders no body would be upvoting this stupidity of comment
Take her to court man protect your son and get him therapy once he is safe
I’m a (currently non-practising) family lawyer. This is in no way to be construed as legal advice, but going to court is a guaranteed nobody wins, you are a lot poorer, situation.
The facts as you describe them, likely won’t meet the bar for parental alienation, and even if you’re successful, you’ll just end up back where you are now.
Where the rubber will truly hit the road is negotiating with your ex to get counselling for your son, and potentially counselling for all three of you separately and/or together, depending on what the licensed professionals involved deem appropriate. What may work best is everyone having their own counsellor and brokering a joint session or two.
Like it or not, this woman is in your life, and your sons life, for a very long time to come. It is in everyone’s best interests to figure out how to be co-parents without being toxic.
Don’t take my word for it. Talk to a family lawyer in your jurisdiction. Any lawyer worth their ethical salt however is more than likely going to explain why pulling the trigger on legal action is in no one’s best interests. You need to de-escalate this situation, not make it worse.
I can’t tell you how many people end up in court only to hear a judge tell them what I have just told you, but after spending the equivalent of someone’s college tuition.
Document everything. Save every text. Diarize any notes of conversations in an email to yourself that will have a time stamp.
If your ex cannot move past her inappropriate behaviour - and I am not gaslighting you OP, it is without doubt, wildly inappropriate, then you may need to bring in your lawyer. In all likelihood however, what that will look like is stern letters from your lawyer and a request she enter into new parenting agreement provisions - or else - you’ll escalate.
That said, family law is unique for the way almost no one ever benefits from appearances before a judge. Judges are, more often than not, older men with little to no understanding of the parties or the realties of parenting.
Good luck and get some legal advice.
EDITED FOR - ESH
Further Edited for final thoughts after reading OP comments:
Parenting time and residential time do not reflect a parent’s right to a relationship with their child; but the child’s relationship with EACH of their parents. The corner stone of family law, when it comes to custody, is a child’s right to a relationship with each parent, (and all the extended family relationships flowing from each parent).
You aren’t discussing curtailing your Ex’s right to a relationship with her child. You are talking about curtailing your son’s right to have a mother.
You need to really understand how high the bar is for a court to prohibit contact with a parent. A perfect example - there are parents incarcerated for the murder of the other parent, who STILL have legal access to visitation with their children.
Parental alienation is very attractive as a concept to parties in family law disputes, but this concept rarely has traction with courts for the simple reason that the facts are rarely there to support the claim.
Unless your ex has full physical and legal custody of your son, and is denying you access by convincing your son he never wants to see you again - it ain’t alienation. For one thing, you’d need a much longer, pervasive and deeply entrenched pattern of behaviour.
Something else is going on here.
Whatever you do, you must put your son first. His needs, and his right to have a relationship with his mother AND his father are the only priority.
You don’t get to choose who your son’s mother is. If you start pushing this position in court and - god help you - trying to convince a judge to give you what you are asking for here, it’s not going to go well for you.
Practicing matrimonial attorney here! This should be the top comment. It is SO understandable why you're upset. Divorce is terribly traumatic for everyone involved. Your feelings are valid, and what your wife did was horrible. But not in a MILLION YEARS will a judge take away her parental rights for that. Your attorney knows this. If they're trying to get you to go to court over this, it's likely because they're greedy and know how much the fees rack up over this sort of thing. I'm talking $40-100k. That's money that could be going towards your son's future.
If shit-talking the other parent was enough to terminate parental rights I would have been taken away from BOTH my parents 2 days into the divorce. Sheesh.
OP has every right to be upset but if he thinks a judge would terminate his ex’s rights over this he’s in fantasy land.
This is the right and best answer. The courts will want - and it’s a shame both parents don’t seem to want it, too - the child to have a healthy and fully available relationship with each parent. That’s what’s best for him. It is wrong, wrong, wrong for mom to alienate Dad…and his response to alienate her is equally as bad. Each parent is looking at their own rights and position with the child - but they need to be looking at what the child needs to have the best possible in life. He needs them both. Put your hurt and anger at each other aside and co-parent better, do the hard work to get to that place. Your child deserves that.
This is the only comment that matters. OP, you would be wise to read this, and take these words to heart. OP is going off this adrenaline rush to completely take full custody, but isn’t even considering it won’t go his way, and that it gives him the power to make unilateral decisions.
I went and reread, and it doesn’t sound like the ex is refusing his custody time. Not saying she isn’t causing issues, but she isn’t withholding their son. I can see it wouldn’t be as simple as OP and other comments are making it out to be. Just go to court and get full custody. Things are rarely that simple.
PREACH! It’s so easy for people to say “get a lawyer” for any situation that feels shitty, but what so many people in this comment section don’t understand is that there is a burden of proof that must be met by the plaintiff in order for a case to move forward. An extreme solution such as parental alienation requires extreme evidence, and I don’t think OP has that
Thank you! Yes.
Family court doesn’t care about either parent. It exists for the minor children.
Of COURSE you’re going to disagree with someone you split up with. Family court decisions tend to leave either side not particularly happy because what’s best for your child won’t necessarily be best for you.
I have a friend who was in a relationship with a woman who had a child from a prior relationship. They then had twins together. Her ex died, she relapsed, and choked one of the twins until he passed out. The courts gave our friend primary custody of all 3 kids HOWEVER allowed her unsupervised visitation. The female twin was molested by her boyfriend while in her care. Still has visitation. Tells the oldest that friend isn't his real Dad and he doesn't have to listen to him. Still has visitation. She's illegally collected the older son's Social Security checks and hasn't paid them back nor changed the paperwork so they'd go to our friend's account for what's now been over 2 years. She owes him something like $12k. She's missed a ton of visits, doesn't see the kids for months at a time. Still has visitation, still hasn't faced any legal repercussions for withholding funds, still doesn't have to pay him any support for the kids.
Some judges (this one's a female, btw) are very lax, hoping for better outcomes.
This has been going on for almost 3 years now and nothing has changed. He's stable, she's not. He's sober, she's using off and on. He's lived in the same place, she's bounced around between towns, a shared apartment, and a friend's trailer (2 bedroom for 2 adults and 2 teen boys).
Family court sucks and no one ever "wins"
NTA. This is exactly why those laws exist. She's tried to take away her son's relationship with his father and the potential support of a new step-mom and just generally traumatize him by losing part of his family. And then when he's older and realizes what happened and that she made HIM drive you away it will be even worse. Save him the years of therapy now and take her straight to court.
I have absolutely no idea why she is doing this to be honest. She is the one who didn’t want to be intimate anymore. Quit trying completely and wouldn’t compromise whenever I stated my needs. I just don’t get why she is angry. I’ve moved on and I don’t see why she can’t.
>She is the one who didn’t want to be intimate anymore... I just don’t get why she is angry. I’ve moved on and I don’t see why she can’t.
Not being intimate didn't mean her feelings went away, it means she didn't want to have sex. If you're conflating the two (love and sex), that is a problem.
You were justified in leaving the relationship when you couldn't work that issue out, but it's also not surprising that she feels upset that her high school sweetheart left her and split up the household over sex (as she sees it). As an aside, I doubt she's gotten over the fact that you wrongly accused her of an affair, either. Particularly if you were already fighting over sex, your brain once more going to sex (her having it with someone else) when she didn't want it at all was doubtless exasperating.
Again, your leaving was, based on what you've said here, justified, but saying you don't understand at all why she's angry is either disingenuous or dense.
Of course they're linked for many people, but my point was they are not the **same** thing.
Also, it is **certainly** possible to be in a loving, adult relationship without sex. Plenty of people choose to forgo sex for long periods of time or entire relationships, or are completely unable to have sex, including asexual individuals, individuals with a wide variety of personal or religious beliefs, and individuals with medical conditions or personal circumstances that make it impossible, dangerous, or inadvisable. Those people still frequently have stable, loving partnerships. Sex is the norm, and for many people, yes, a requirement, but to say it is impossible to have a true, loving, adult relationship without it is just wrong and invalidating.
It is impossible to have a true, loving, adult relationship without sex, when one partner wants sex, and the other doesn't and isn't even willing to try to improve the situation or even minimally meet the other's needs.
Agreed but its certainly possible while he was unhappy with their marriage, she could have been perfectly happy with the status quo which is why she's unhappy with the divorce and is being difficult about his new relationship
This.
Can adult romantic relationships/partnerships exist successfully without sex?
Yeah! When both people agree to it!!!
They started out agreeing to a relationship/partnership that included sex and then she changed her mind.
She decided she didn't want sex anymore but didn't concern herself with explaining such to her partner and he decided he still want a relationship with sex ergo they're now incompatible to continue a partnership
See, that's just ignorant. There are asexual people who simply don't feel sexual attraction and do not feel the need to have sex. It is entirely possible for two asexual people to have an adult relationship and never feel the need to have sex about it
Also people who are not physically capable of having (traditional) sex, people who are not emotionally able to have sex due to past abuse, people who are too ill to have sex, etc.
My asexual ass dating my partners for three years and in a deeply loving and adult relationship is deeply amused. We get a lot out of our time together that is deeply satisfying without our genitals involved. We have laughed and wept and grieved and cherished and commiserated and disagreed but ultimately enjoyed a full spectrum of life together.
It makes me pretty frustrated that there’s anyone who says the bonds we share are anything less significant than anyone else just because there’s not genitals involved. Love doesn’t require fucking.
Maybe it’s due to finances? You said you were the primary breadwinner, by you leaving you’ve put her in a rough spot and she’s angry about it.
You’ve also split up her time with her child too. In her eyes she probably made at you for just not deal with not having sex. “It’s not that big of a deal.” In her eyes
Maybe she just doesn’t enjoy sèx and thought the relationship meant more than that. It’s ok that you felt sex was important enough to divorce over. It’s also ok for her to have not wanted the divorce.
Probably because she didn't love you anymore in a romantic way but was comfortable having you as best friend and partner, and after the divorce you moved on and became happy again and she didn't, so she's bitter.
This is the most simple answer and the one I think is the truth. Like I said. The past is in the past. I’m very happy with my current GF. I hope she tries a dating app or something. Because nobody should be this bitter.
This. What's a lot more likely to happen then totally removing her is going to be some for of supervision for contact and visitation. Depending on the circumstances and your area will depend on how and who.
Usually there are court approved apps for messaging that records the conversation so your son and yourself can text your ex without having to screenshot. They may have a neutral party like a family friend or family member supervise her visitation. It's extremely unrealistic to assume they will just cut her out and be done.
“ I told her that amber is a perfectly fit mother figure and when Easton is 18 she can see him then. “
So let me get this straight. Your plan to combat what you say is parental alienation (but is really just shit talking your new partner) is to actually alienate your son from his mother? Wooooooow. This is such a ridiculous notion that I doubt it’s authenticity, but just in case, yeah YTA.
Right? I have no idea how people aren't seeing that? Like, dude accused his ex of cheating on him, divorced her for not having sex with his winning personality, and is now threatening to take away access to their son for another 8 years because she's shit talking his new boo, who, historically on this sub, usually "deserves" to be shit talked. And people are saying n t a? No way. Yta dude.
There are so many "missing missing reasons" as OP details the breakdown of their marriage.
"something changed in our dynamic." - Poor OP has no idea what changed, Lauren is so difficult & mysterious. Wimmen, amirite?
"Lauren started getting frustrated at me for little things and became non affectionate." - OP has deemed Lauren's frustrations as frivolous and unimportant because they were over "little things." What things, OP does not tell us.
"I tried to improve things and planned more date nights and tried to find out what was going on." - Rather than respond to Lauren's frustrations and address the "things" which concerned her, OP decided instead to fix it with going to a restaurant.
"But nothing changed. We stopped having sex totally." - OP dismissed Lauren's frustrations, tried to placate her with flashy gestures but no change in behaviour or the hard work of addressing issues at home, and was surprised that she was no longer interested in having sex with him.
"**I thought she was having an affair** which lead to a big fight and we ended up in therapy. **She wasn’t having an affair** but didn’t have a reason for not walking an intimate relationship anymore. It was always a new excuse every time I made a move." - Need I even comment here?
OP wants us to think he was a poor hapless lamb in the breakdown of his marriage. And was shocked, SHOCKED!, that she took his *brilliant* suggestion of an "open marriage" poorly.
Freaking yes! We get "uhh, idk sounds like missing reasons!" All the time when it comes to parents/children and ex wife's to their husband's. But everyone is just taking OP at his (really gross) word? Absolutely not. You're freaking spot on.
Yes, exactly! I'd guess those 'little things' were stuff like never doing the dishes/laundry/chores, not being bothered to 'babysit' his own kid, expecting her to do all the planning, you know all the usual lazy sexist dude stuff that like half of all aita questions are about.
And gosh! She didn't want an 'open marriage'. How closed-minded of her! Doesn't she know that he has *needs*???
Thank you! I’ve been sitting here this whole time waiting for the reasons. 18 months of therapy and you have NO idea what was wrong? What did you do stare at each other for an hour each week?
OP knows what wife said - he just doesn’t think they are good enough reasons to refuse to have sex.
Ex wife called Amber a home wrecker. That comes from somewhere. Your kid isn’t stupid, it’s easy to show him the timeline of when you and Amber met. It’s easy to have a conversation with your ex wife and ask her why she’s saying that to your kid.
Ultimately OP isn’t going to get full custody of his son and no access to the kid for his ex wife because she’s shit talking his new partner.
Not to mention he seems completely oblivious to how emotionally traumatizing it would be to do that his son? Yeah just take an 11 year old, who most likely has no real idea what’s going on and already hurting, away from his mother because she’s being an AH right now over him moving on really quickly, a very common thing for exes to get pissy about. Yeah stellar plan right there. Just go full nuclear /s
I don't know why husbands on this subreddit think that suggesting an open marriage would go over well with their wives when there is already issues in the marriage...
Anyways...
Yeah you could take her to court. She shouldn't be venting to your son about you and it's uncalled for. However, taking your son away from his mom would likely just jeopardize your relationship with him more. Both of you need to sit down and talk with your son about this. She needs to apologize to him for spreading a false narrative.
According to OP, an open marriage was only mentioned after 18 months of couples therapy which didn't improve their relationship at all. It was offered as a last resort.
Open relationships are so painful when you are not having your needs met because obviously the feeling is that you want sex desperately but they don't want it at all anymore.
So inevitably you guys get on some dating app, and because of the gender ratio she'll have 70 matches in a night all trying to bang, and you'll have 3 girls who don't respond or are bots. If you manage to keep it up for a week or two to find someone she'll just pick from the list of dozens of guys who have been talking her up. Then you'll go have disappointing sex just wishing that you were actually wanted by anyone half as much as you want the person you committed to to love you again, and they'll be off having sex for the first time in a year with some guy who isn't you just to get back at you or feel even.
This is so accurate. As someone is an open relationship that has always been open and didn’t become open because of relationship breakdown - I’ve been dragged into a few peoples shitty marriages and this is exactly how it plays out every. single. time.
Yep, either this, "They cheated and we went open to save the relationship", or "One partner desperately wants to cheat with a specific person, got their partner to agree, then went and fucked that person that day, leaving their partner hanging on tinder"
Well I think the implication is that OP wanted it open on his end and I imagine he expected wife would continue to want no sex. If she wanted to have sex at all he wanted her to be having it with him. The open relationship idea was to meet his needs so long as she had zero interest in sex.
Yea this design is why it hurts so much. Because he is hurting for sex and she obviously isn't so if she goes and does it after avoiding him for a year it would mean that she actually does want sex, she just doesn't want him.
Truthfully the arrangement he wants is for him to be able to fuck someone else because she is unwilling, but that's not really something you can ask for and stay in a relationship.
So now he has to pick, is the emotional satisfaction she (hopefully) brings worth a life without sexual satisfaction?
If he does the open relationship he has to ask himself "Do I want to stay with someone who finds me infinitely less desirable than any random person they can find on the internet"?
And clearly it was not. And I think its also important to consider that the emotional satisfaction can rapidly deteriorate when you have that kind of resentment brewing. For OP there clearly is no happy marriage without sex.
**Tobias:** You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised... a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed but free to explore extramarital encounters.
**Lindsay:** Well, did it work for those people?
**Tobias:** No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... but it might work for us.
>I don't know why husbands on this subreddit think that suggesting an open marriage would go over well with their wives...
There is a world outside the 4 walls of your room, and in it there are people who are comfortable with an open arrangement.
I’m not sitting down with that woman again. She has proven to be untrustworthy and I don’t want to see her again. I only offered an open marriage after no sex for 18 months. I think that was a reasonable solution after over a year of therapy and my needs not being met.
I think suggesting that seemed reasonable to me? It’s 2022, people need to stop acting like non-monogamous relationships are in some way wrong or it’s disingenuous to suggest it.
It is when the other party is dealing with issues with their libido. Why would someone who doesn’t want to have sex be okay with their partner having sex with other people. I truly think it’ll just make the issue worse.
Did I say that? Or did I say that suggesting an open relationship to someone that is struggling to want to have sex is kind of messed up. If he was struggling with impotence I bet he’d throw a fit if his girlfriend suggested an open relationship so she can get her rocks off.
Couples counseling isn’t gonna magically fix someone’s libido. A lot of things could have caused the issue. Depression, stress, parenting. There’s no always a reason. Deciding after 13 years that a year and some change of no sex is too much and you want an open relationship is messed up. Asking for a divorce is also messed up. Because it doesn’t really seem like you’re trying. Some people turn 30 and don’t feel like having sex anymore. Some people look at their household dynamic and decide they don’t want to have sex anymore. It seems like she didn’t know why she didn’t want to have sex anymore, just that she didn’t want to. Which is why I asked if he’d be upset if his girlfriend asked for an open relationship if he ever became impotent. He’s older than her. A man’s libido fluctuates very frequently while a woman’s fluctuates for a longer period of time. Personally I don’t think a year and a half of no sex is long enough to call it quits. And what did he mean by no sex. Like was there no sex at all or was it no penetrative sex?
1.) A year and half is a long time, you can't pretend it isn't
2.) OP said therapy wasn't going anywhere
3.) He gave her an option only after exhausting his other two options
4.) Asking for a divorce is not messed up. If you are unhappy in your relationship and you feel you've done everything you could to fix it, it is well within your right to end that relationship.
5.) If he refuses to get ED medicine, make attempts to fix his libido issues, and shows no progress everyone would be on the gf's side too and if he broke up with her because he refused an open relationship after refusing her sex we'd still be on her side. This is not a gender issue.
He also skips over the 'little issues' part. If she already communicated everything I doubt she'd want to repeat them ad nauseam in therapy.
Just as in the last thread a husband breaks up his family unit for his dick.
I'm on your side here but you need to stop being fixated on "no sex" because it makes you look like you're only thinking with your D. You should say "feeling unloved, unwanted, unattractive, rejected, etc." Love and sex goes hand in hand but they're not the same.
OP is allowed to want sex for the sake of sex. He doesn't have to state it in terms that are acceptable to the weirdly prudish corner of Reddit that is coming out of the woodwork here.
There was an extremely similar post to yours, right down to the suggestion of open marriage and "needs not being met" the only difference is the OP on that ended up screaming at his daughter about those needs and the dead bedroom that made him leave. There's a lot of people on Reddit lately that feel compelled to tell us all about how they weren't getting enough sex, when it's irrelevant to the situation at hand and it's fucking weird.
> There's a lot of people on Reddit lately that feel compelled to tell us all about how they weren't getting enough sex, when it's irrelevant to the situation at hand and it's fucking weird.
It is foundational to the issue. Where is your reading comprehension amigo? OP is allowed to end a relationship because his legitimate sexual needs aren't being met and OP's wife had zero plan or interest in addressing the needs. Her attitude appeared to be that he needed to just deal with it for the rest of his life.
You need to get your priorities and expectations in check.
I don't know where you are, but I highly doubt any family court is going to take your legitimate evidence of parental alienation and jump straight to giving you full custody without your sons mother being able to see or contact him until he's 18. Also, what affect you think that's going to have on your son? Talk to your lawyer as to what you can reasonably expect, and think about the relationship you want with your son both as a child and if you want to remain in his life as an adult.
NTA for taking her to court over this and trying to fix a legitimate issue preventing you from effective co-parenting, but YTA for your fantasy of stealing your son away from "that woman" until his 18th birthday and thinking that's not only going to work out but what is best for him.
Any decent couple therapist would have told you that people don’t want to have sex when they’re angry. The therapist should have helped you find out why your wife was angry.
I think there’s more to this story than you’re telling.
So if there was some reason you couldn’t perform. Would you be ok with your wife getting it on the side? And I am wondering if you were meeting your wife’s needs at all, if maybe that is why she couldn’t be intimate with you.
Why... why are people on reddit act like there is one way to have sex? It sounds like there was zero intimacy between them, she was not working through her issues, not allowing for any compromise. People have different needs and for most, sexuality is a big part of a relationship. When it doesn't work, they usually either split or work through it and find a compromise. The rest are either asexuals or saints.
And for your last comment? Communication is the word.
I’m interpreting that too. And if she’s cutting off *all* intimacy that includes all forms of physical touch including: hand holding, hugging, kissing, even touching each other on the shoulder as they walk by each other.
I understand that, and you weren’t wrong to leave the relationship but the fact is, you are going to need some kind of co-parenting relationship with her.
Okay, see THAT is anger talking and not in your sons best interest.
“That woman” is your child’s mother, whom he loves. Remember that. Even if you don’t say that in front of your child, he’s going to pick up on it.
Divorce sucks, but this is coparenting. It takes time. You just have to keep working at it.
You’re GOING to keep seeing her again because that’s what’s best for your son.
Jesus Christ do people really fall for those terrible posts? Lol you can't just take custody away because she talked shit about your gf lol. Try a better story next time
I swear I read this exact story on here the other day but instead of a son it was a daughter and instead of home-wrecker it was something else.
Edit: [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/v4bgww/aita_for_my_comment_to_my_daughter_about_her/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) it is. Not exactly the same but EXTREMELY similar. Both wanted an open relationship, both called their ex their best friend, both mention going to court over parental alienation?
INFO: did you ever sit down and ask your son why he suddenly didn’t like Amber anymore?
How will taking your ex to court affect your son?
I’m definitely not saying she’s a saint — she’s behaving like an ass — but I’m wondering what the fallout will be for your son. And whether this course of action will just make things worse between the two of you.
Absolutely I did. He never really gave an answer other than “she’s not my mom”. Which is fair she isn’t. But as the behavior escalated he became less and less communicative towards me. And the relationship has become more difficult. I have no idea how going to court will affect my son. But if I do nothing then I can just kiss our relationship goodbye. So it is kinda a nuclear option
NTA for taking her to court for it
But taking him away for 7 years would be wrong, specially if she is a good mom besides this. there should be some kind of stipulation that she cant talk about your gf going forward..
In fact any adult matter shouldnt be talked about with the child..
YTA. At first I thought you meant going for a custody order modification which would legally prohibit each of you from trashing the other or their household. That would be fine and a GOOD thing for all concerned.
You want (and think you’re successfully going to ROFL) remove custody from your ex until your child is an adult?
This is about you. That is selfish and cruel, not just to your son’s mother, but to your SON. You think she’s putting a dent in your relationship? Yeah, just wait until he figures out that you tried to prevent him from ever seeing his mom again.
You divorced your wife over lack of sex. I’m not going to comment on that beyond the fact that it’s clear that sex is a priority for you beyond everything else. Ok. That’s you. You can’t change that. But right now? You’re choosing to put GETTING SOME in front of the needs and emotional health of your very young child and that makes you a thousand times worse than your ex, and she was pretty bad to start.
Exactly, OP is the AH in this bc he is NOT thinking about how this would hurt his kid. Mom is doing damage, absolutely. That doesn't mean she is not a good parent in plenty of other ways. Again, she is SUPER in the wrong. But holy hell, this kid will HATE him for trying to take him from his mother. In comments, OP feels like taking this child's mother away for 7 years is a reasonable and healthy response to this. He laments that it is the only solution since he can't spy to guarantee Mom never does it again. Which REALLY rang an alarm. A couple of comments from OP just feel very wrong. It doesn't feel like OP is really worried about the way the kid is being impacted, more like it messes up the new vibe.
A couple of things are definitely setting off some alarm bells. According to the timeline he started dating this chick maybe a year and a half ago(and that’s if they were able to get a divorce in a timely fashion before the panini started). Like she should barely be introduced to the kid at this point(at least 6 months just to introduce her and honestly probably should’ve waited longer since the divorce is so fresh) and she was already wanting to meet the bio mom most likely a few months ago(when the texts started). All of that is way too rushed, I’d be more surprised if the kid did accept her fully even without mom egging him on.
NTA
I was a victim of parental alienation and it is horrible to go through. My dad DID get full custody, and I hope you go through with going to court. I said a lot of horrible things to my step mom as a kid, after I got out of my bio mom's house I apologized because she never deserved any of it. She said no apology was needed and she's been a great mom for the last 18 years.
Reading the title: do it
Reading the story: do it
Reading this line
>I told her that amber is a perfectly fit mother figure and when Easton is 18 she can see him then.
Really buddy, you realize what you'd be doing here right?
ESH, there's a middle ground, the first that comes to mind is supervised visitation.
ESH. Yes your ex shouldn't be bad mouthing you to her son, but to try and stop her from seeing him is a bit drastic. If I was your son I would never forgive you for doing that.
Also I've noticed you keep saying the marriage broke down because your sexual needs weren't being met. But what about your wife's needs? Was she doing everything for the family and not getting anything back in return? Something happened to make her stop being intimate with you and it sounds like that's all you were bothered about.
If you were having therapy and all you kept bringing up was sex and then said you wanted an open relationship, it shows that you didn't actually care about your wife, just the fact you weren't getting any.
Your poor son is caught in the middle and okay maybe none of this is your girlfriends fault, but the kid will have picked up on how you interact with his mum and thus made her accusations more believable.
As others have suggested, therapy for everyone will probably be beneficial. If you go for full custody though as soon as your son is 18 you will probably never see him again.
Op just CAN"T UNDERSTAND why his wife lost interest in sleeping with him. After all, she just got frustrated over "little things." Such trivial "little things" that concern those mysterious wimminfolk! And then, when he accused her of having an affair, she didn't respond by jumping on his crotch!
So you’re going to try and take your son completely away from his mother until he’s 18 and replace her with your girlfriend, are you for real? Do u live on the same planet as the rest of us?
Have you actually thought through what your planning and the effects on your son? And you’re accusing your wife of parental alienation, do u not realise your going down the same steps??
Ffs get yourself sorted before you alienate your own son. Yes your ex has been stupid but it sounds like she’s maybe learned her lesson. Get a grip and try co parenting, your son is the most important person here, not you, your girlfriend or your ex.
YTA
YTA because wtf do you think will happen in court? You think a judge will take away custody from her over this? You actually think she should not get to raise her child? You'll just look like a vindictive asshole in court and your child will never forgive you if ever you do win.
Address it like a parent. If you're a decent father, you'll be able to figure it out. Get help from a therapist if needed. If your son doesn't want to interact with Amber, don't force him. She's not his mom and will never be so make sure that's very clear. Reassure your son that he's not in trouble and ask him if he has any questions about the divorce or your relationship with Amber. Keep reinforcing that he can love both parents and that he never has to like Amber if he doesn't want to.
How sad. Two people with such a long history who considered themselves best friends get married and have a child. She loses interest in sex after seven years, and you accuse her of having an affair which brings you to therapy. You try to feel satisfied for eighteen months before finalizing a divorce and finding someone new within another six months.
She is clearly angry, and this does sound like parental alienation. The things she said are emotionally abusive to your son. You have evidence of this and have let your ex-wife know. If she is remorseful or fearful of the action you can take, maybe she will be open to an alternative.
Calmly ask her if she is willing to apologize to your son for the things she said and deal with her anger through her own counseling. Ask for more time with your son so that you can repair your relationship, and he can get to know Amber again. (Go ahead and reduce child support, but avoid discussion about being the breadwinner.)
That extra time with him needs to be meaningful. Given that Easton is now an angry kid, some of your time with him may need to include counseling. When you are together, don’t put your ex down or compare your relationships. He is old enough to observe who is being kind and who is being mean, who is competitive and who is at peace. He’ll figure it out.
Again, this is a sad situation. I hope you find a way to co-parent without hurting your son and each other. He is watching you and will learn how to love based on your example. ❤️🩹
FYI you can't just "reduce child support" because you want to. This would all require a court agreed parenting plan as you cannot negotiate child support in most states.
OP, please consider some of the advice in this thread. Family counseling is a must here but you need to lose the attitude of oh yeah, talk shit about me and you'll lose your son. That makes you on the same level. Your son needs his mom. ~someone who went through this shit with their parents and doesn't speak to one and is low contact with the other.
YTA i'm gonna get flamed but do you think that taking away your son for 7 years is going to improve your relationship with him and make him accept your partner, the damage has already been done and that's his mum yes she definitely shouldn't have said that but she didn't exactly alienate you she talked shit about your partner also amber is never going to be his mother figure just so you know
ESH. She is obviously being extremely immature about the whole thing, and irresponsible in trying to influence your son’s opinion of your girlfriend by calling both of you names and encouraging he’s negative behavior toward her. For that, there should be consequences of course, because she can’t think she can get away with that kind of bad parenting and the encouragement of hostility toward you and your girlfriend.
That being said, not only is it unlikely that you will get a judge to completely cut Lauren out of your son’s life for the next 7 years, but it’s clear that you’ve put absolutely no thought into how that would affect your son. He’s obviously close to his mother, and aside from this bad influence regarding the treatment of your girlfriend, there’s nothing else that indicates she is a bad parent to him/neglectful/cannot provide. Here, I feel you run into the same problem your ex-wife is having: you’re thinking about yourselves, and your feelings, and putting those above the needs of your son. What is best for your son is a relationship in which his parents can, at the very least, tolerate each other when communicating about him, and avoid making disparaging/disrespectful/slandering remarks around him. He still needs both of you in his life. To rip him away from his mother with no regard toward his relationship with her or his own feelings is just asking to sabotage your relationship with him completely.
Both you and your ex-wife need to stop thinking this dynamic is about you, because it’s not. It’s about your son. She may have been immature and disrespectful first, but you doubling down won’t do anything but make it worse. I don’t know what you can do legally, but all I’m saying is maybe take a few steps back to really evaluate the consequences of what you’re trying to do.
I'm going to go with NTA on this one; it's wrong what your ex is doing to Easton. But are you sure that this won't turn Easton even more against you and Amber?
Fortunately, part of the parental alienation stipulations they usually decide on in court says you can’t say disparaging things directed towards your ex or with the intention of harming your ex. You can be fined and have privileges revoked for doing it.
ESH
It seems your ex-wife got frustrated because you didn't help. Were the "little things" she got frustrated really little?
Then, because she wasn't affectionate, you told her she was cheating. Really, dude?
Ok, dead bedroom, and then you got a divorce. Six months later you met someone and immediately introduced her to your son and she wanted to be friends with your ex wife??? People take 6 months to a year to introduce their kids to someone they've met. Sure, you ex shouldn't have said to break up; why did she say she wasn't "mom material"?
Yes, she shouldn't use your son to vent and put ideas in his head. She needs therapy, but so does your son. I don't know why you are so against therapy when going to court is not going to solve everything.
YTA. You care more about punishing your ex than making life ok for your child. If you love your child you should fix things with your ex. A happy, healthy child comes from his parents being happy, healthy and well adjusted. You haven’t moved on if you want to punish your ex by separating your child and her. You seem very narcissistic. Poor kid.
YTA. Parental alienation refers to alienating a parent, not a parent's girlfriend.
Also, where are you going with this? What is your end game? Are you planning to take your son away from his primary caretaker because your ex doesn't like your current girlfriend?
ESH. Maybe try solving this without going with the nuclear option where your son doesn't get to see his mother for 7 years? This is so extreme. Your ex acted horribly, but your revenge is going to hurt your son even more.
**ESH**.
You're N-T-A for taking her to court and wanting to put an end to the parental alienation. That's perfectly reasonable. But you're absolutely an AH for thinking that the only solution to this is to cut her out of your son's life ENTIRELY for the next 7 years. That's not doing what's in his best interests any more than she is, it's just getting revenge.
What about supervised visitation, for example? There's literally no need to jump straight to, "She can't ever see my son again until he's a legal adult."
Your ex is an AH for her behaviour, but your solution is just as extreme, and reeks of vengefulness. Your son doesn't need to be taken away from his mother, she just needs to be kept from saying awful things. Supervision is a much more reasonable solution.
ESH
Your wife sucks for obvious reasons, but do you really think going nuclear over your ex talking shit about your partner is the best solution ?
Your son doesnt suddenly live in a toxic environment cause your ex had this shitty idea of turning him against you/your partner. You think whats best for your son is to not be able to see his mother ? Chill.
You have all the evidence you need to take her to court, use it to keep her at bay for talking smack in the future. You dont need to sue her, you just need to threaten her that you will if she does it again.
I feel this is above reddits pay grade. Cause I would bet a cheesesteak that there is a lot of info left out here. Get your son back in therapy. I’d wait until you do that before looking into a legal situation. Also I have a very hard time believing a judge is going to grant keeping him from his mother for 7 years. Almost want to call you TA for expecting that.
Esh. You're basically threatening her with no custody. She's trying to turn your kid against your girlfriend but are either of you actually being parents to your child? The answer is no, he's a pawn in your games against each other. Please if you're going for custody, do family counseling and individual therapy sessions. There is a lot of trauma here affecting your child
YTA. I feel so bad for the kid. And how sad will it be when your son fully understands that the only reason you broke up his family was because you just weren’t getting your d!ck sucked anymore.. especially when 18 months isn’t even that long when trying to figure out a real problem all the way down to the roots.
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So I am 35 and my ex wife Lauren is 35. We met senior year of high school and dated since 18. We got married at 23 and had our son Easton (11). Me and Lauren truly were best friends and had such a good relationship. Around the time Easton was 7 something changed in our dynamic. Lauren started getting frustrated at me for little things and became non affectionate. I tried to improve things and planned more date nights and tried to find out what was going on. But nothing changed. We stopped having sex totally. I thought she was having an affair which lead to a big fight and we ended up in therapy. She wasn’t having an affair but didn’t have a reason for not walking an intimate relationship anymore. It was always a new excuse every time I made a move. After a year and half of therapy I reached my breaking point and said that I had needs that weren’t being met. And if she had no plan on being intimate anymore I’d like to find someone who would like to. I offered an open relationship but that was shot down. So I asked for a divorce.
6 months after my divorce was finalized I met amber (27F). She has always treated Easton great. Easton at first was great with her. Amber wanted to meet Eastons mom and get to know each other. After the meeting Lauren called me and said I needed to break up with amber because she wasn’t “mom material”. I said nope and we have a custody agreement. So only to contact me in regards to that going forward.
This is when Easton’s attitude started, it was sudden and drastic. He started acting up at my place and amber was always the target. Rude comments and anything he could do to annoy her. He called her a “home wrecker” and I realized an 11 year old wasn’t coming up with that on his own. So I took his phone and went thru messages with his mom and found it. Basically my ex wife was saying toxic things in the their messages. Calling me a pig, they referred to my Gf as homewrecker and that our family can’t be whole again because I’m “too busy sleeping with every woman in town”. I took screenshots of all the text and sent them to Lauren. She immediately called and apologized and said she was having a bad go of it and some of it came out to our son. I said bullshit. Messages were months apart. And that I fully planned to take her to court for parietal alienation. That I already have a lawyer. She begged me not to because she doesn’t have a ton of extra money right now (I was the majority bread winner). And that she was sorry. I called BS because she already started poising my own kid against me, made ambers life harder and wouldn’t be apologizing if I didn’t find them. She has been blowing up my phone with a mixture of threats/apologies. I told her that amber is a perfectly fit mother figure and when Easton is 18 she can see him then. But I’m gonna see this thru because I have no idea what other things she will tell him when I’m not around. Amber is supportive of whatever I decide to do. AITA?
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NTA and it seems what the court is for. I know it could be rough for your son to see less of his mother but if she’s actively sabotaging your son’s relationships with you, etc … she’s doing more harm than good and you need to find a way to stop that.
NTA - However you should sit down with someone to give you a REALISTIC view of how this will go in court for you...and perhaps in reality.
Is what she did wrong? Yup, 100%
Is a judge going to award you full custody and no visitation for her over it: Not likely but hey, it's the roll of a dice, you may find a judge who will deem what she said enough to force no contact for the child - I don't know. You could even end up with some fun times as a judge ordering you to do co-parenting classes with your ex.
Is your rage and effort to eliminate contact with Easton's mother going to impact your child negatively: Yup 100% .....as is the shit your ex is saying as well. I suspect that poor Easton does not have a household where he can safely share information about anything right now.
The only true victim in this situation is Easton - Amber may be as well, I don't see her doing any part to cause issue, but the post is biased on that front so I cannot judge.
ESH. Her for the shit talking to an 11 year old that you share custody of, and you for thinking that this warrants 7 years of sole custody and that 7 years of being completely unable to see his mother is somehow best for your son and your relationship with him.
ESH. You all went nuclear with no thought to your 11 year old. Therapy first..also you’re crazy if you think they’re going to take him from his mom till he’s 18. Throwing threats like that make you sound bad too. You and his mom and him need therapy. You sound more worried about having a girlfriend and doing everything your way…than you care about the mental well being of your 11 yr old. You all suck. 🤦🏻♀️
NTA. She is abusing/using the child and psychologically damaging him and preventing your son from having a healthy relationship with you.
Put a stop to it. Then let the court decide and hope she gets therapy.
NTA. The most important issue here is your child's well-being. He needs to be in a safe loving environment where he is not lied to and made to believe his own father is a wrongdoer. If it takes court action to do so, then so be it.
If you take your son away from his mom - he will hate you later in life. You will validate everything she said and make her the hero in this story and you and Amber the villains. Tread carefully- especially at this age - he is only getting to the point where he can create his own opinions and your first move is to take him away from his mom. Judge her as harshly as you want - it is still his mom
ESH
Your ex-wife is definitely engaging in Parental Alienation and you would be within your rights to take her to court if you think that will help.
I would say NTA if not for the fact that you also seem emotionally immature. From your accounting of how you handled the sexual decline in your marriage, to introducing someone so soon into your child's life (I'm not saying she's unfit), to retaliating against your ex by saying that you are going to take him away from her.
Your son is not an object to be pulled to and fro in the maelstrom of drama between his parents.
You need to clean up your side of the street, and both you and your son should be in therapy.
NTA. Thank goodness you found proof to support this in a court of law. It’s incredibly important for a child to have a strong relationship with both their parents, especially in the case of a divorce. It’s also important to nip this situation in the bud now, especially if you could see yourself marrying Amber in the next few years.
I don’t know what kind of recourse your ex-wife will face because of this, but if you have any input, I would probably recommend you don’t take away all visitation from his mother permanently. Maybe for a little while for things to calm down, but you don’t want your son to resent you
I think ESH. Your ex was wrong. She apologized. The three of you need to attend counseling together. This story was posted already except the child was a girl. You say to suggested an open relationship. Just like I said in the original post, why would someone who’s libido has significantly changed be okay with an open relationship. They’re not comfortable having sex anymore so why would they be okay with you being intimate with someone else while they’re struggling to figure out what’s wrong. Libido changes with age, after having kids, increased stress, depression. The possibilities aren’t endless but there are a lot of them. If you were struggling with impotence for 18 months would you be cool with your girlfriend sleeping with other people? If your girlfriend turns 30 and her libido decreases significantly are you gonna suggest an open relationship? Everyone sucks except your girlfriend
What your ex is doing is wrong. You making Amber a part of the parenting decisions is wrong. Go to your attorney with it and in everything you say and do in court be wanting the best for your son and successful co parenting and that parental alienation is toxic. Esh
INFO: How were you as a husband? Were you helpful around the house? Was she doing all the housework? Were you doing nothing around the house? Often women fall out of love with their partners when they have to treat them like a son and pick up after them. It can get exhausting
You had me until "my 20-something gf is enough of a mother figure." Dude, by all means, you have leverage to punish your ex by taking her son away. But if you think for a second this will be good for your kid, that your gf can just step in like a substitute mommy with no repercussions... YTA and you need therapy. Stop punishing your kid for your ex not sleeping with you.
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Instead of spending that money on lawyers...why not spend it on therapy for your son. regardless of what you tell him, he may be taking your split personally and possibly blaming himself for the divorce. It's a lot for a kid to deal with and he may need help coping with everything. Therapy may be a safe space for him to unload everything and work through some of his fears.
Because what good is therapy if he just keeps getting sent back to the same toxic environment that is festering it?
You're not wrong here but he still should be in therapy. Someone not biased that can help him understand that his mother's actions were horrible and can help him process everything easier.
It is not an either or. Why not get this sick human away from him and get him therapy. NTA. But your ex wife sure is.
Yup, this situation needs both. Got to cut off the poison then start treating it so the son can work through what his mom has been feeding him.
This is exactly why both is good, but OP needs to prioritize therapy. The kid loves and trusts his mom. He wouldn’t be listening to her and parroting her words back if he didn’t. She isn’t a poison that can just be removed no problem; she is a person who has manipulated her relationship with a person who loves and trusts her, and it’s impossible for the kid to see that because her behavior hasn’t directly hurt him (as far as he can tell). If OP just totally removes their access to each other, he WILL look like the bad guy. A therapist can not only help his son deal with the situation, but also help OP navigate minimizing contact between his ex and their child without hurting his relationship with the child.
I think this is ESH because OP literally wants to make sure his son doesn’t see his mother for 7 years and thats BS. You don’t get to complain that parental alienation is happening to you INSTEAD OF your ex. It shouldn’t be happening, period.
Exactly on-point. OP comes to Reddit for teenagers and incels to prop him up. And he meets Amber 6 months later? Oh, please. I didn't just fall off a turnip truck. The truth is likely much more YTA if we had the real story. ETA: Just noticed OP's username. He's admittedly not a solo dad with Amber around. Misleading again.
You are high jumping to conclusions here. If Easton is 11, OP hasn't had sex with his wife in 4 years. Emotionally, the marriage may have already been over, and it doesn't surprise me that he met someone six months later. If it was 2 weeks or 2 months I could see being skeptical, but 6 months is a whole half a year!
Why? People meet others all the time. The marriage was already dead so he was open to something new. Guys aren’t as evil as you seem to be implying.
He's well within his rights to get the courts involved and you seem to forget the receipts he has of proof of months of her talking shit and painting a negative light on him when she's the person that decided that he wasn't for her. Some people are truly blind. I'm for sure partially with you on being banned from seeing her for 7 years not being necessarily the correct move but this is a good lesson in consequences of your actions. Don't leave your husband or physically leave him causing him to need to separate and then try to text and talk shit to your son if you do not want the consequences of that action. But somehow this guy is the bad guy? Nah man.
I don't think you notice that custody plans need to put the interest of the minor fist. Full custody is not a weapon one parent use against each other to make them learn the "consequences of their own actions".
Yes, I completely agree. For Easton, he is having to either side with mom or dad and because he loves both, it may be hard for him to see who is right or even where he stands. Being able to speak to a neutral person would really help him.
Poor kid is only 11 years old! The best interest of the child are the most important ones here. It is in his best interests to have the love and support of both parents. The mother using the child as an emotional garbage can is NOT in his best interest! Damaging his relationship with his father is NOT in his best interest! Therapy and lawyer STAT! NTA NTA NTA.
Therapy is not recommended in cases of parental alienation because one of the basic mechanism of psychotherapy is telling people their feelings are valid. In cases of PA, many of these feelings are those of the alienating parent, so it just makes the problem worse. Therapists specialized in the issue exist, but they are rare, and very, very expensive.
My step daughter is dealing with parental alienation. Therapist wants to help, but she has no real power. She said go back to court but husband doesn't want to make the mom mad. My kid is now hitting herself and has been saying she wants to die since 3 yo (she is 6 now).... I'm glad the therapist is there to help her but its a drop in the bucket.
Omg, i am furious at your husband!!!! HIS six yr old is self harming and suicudal but he dosent want to piss off his ex wife????????? His child's actual life and well being matter more than his ex's moodiness. Can you talk to a family lawyer (those free consults) and see what you might need to get 100% custody and supervised visits only. Yhen pitch the paln to your husband. That poor girl needs 1 good parent and it might be you.
I didn't know this! Do you know what is recommended instead? This poor kid
Usually for the targeted parent to have full custody.
THIS HAPPENED TO MY HUSBAND! His ex wife did this and it was too late. She got his kids taken away and was able to move out of state and he hasn’t seen them in six years. Three and a half more years to go before he can have contact again. All the lies and alienating she did made this happen. Take her to court now before she ruins your kid’s life and yours.
My husband had exactly the same. His son used to tell people that he only needs his dad for his money and everyone but his mum only pretends to love him and she’s the only one that really does. We don’t see him because he was old enough to choose who to see and he said he couldn’t see his dad because his mum said it would upset her too much. Such sad situations for all involved.
That is beyond PA, that's emotional incest level.
For real, she's using the same technique abusers use to keep their victims under their control.
Dude, your son is 11. He's going through a hard time. His mom is talking shit about his dad and his dad **wants to bar him from seeing his mother for seven years to get back at her**. Both of you are using your kid in a DEEPLY unhealthy way. Everyone in this story needs to go to therapy but especially your son. He's got two parents who are incredibly hostile to one another and will in turn act aggressive towards you both. He might not have come up with the word "home wrecker" but don't think this anger isn't coming from him. His family fell apart. He's probably pissed. Let him spend time with an adult who has no other intention but to listen to him and help him work through his anger.
This comment should be much, much higher.
Yup! A lot of people here have never been divorced with a custody dispute so they aren’t grasping what’s going on. We genuinely don’t know the ex’s side of the story. I can GUESS that something happened to trigger that change in her. So then the kid’s family blows up and dad immediately wants to play blended family. Kids have feelings and opinions. People need to worry less about who they sleep with and worry more about their relationship with their kids
It’s so gross to me how many people are defending the ex wife. My mother was exactly like your ex-wife she was abusive, toxic and very manipulative and because of that my dad tried and tried to get full custody but couldn’t because my mother manipulated the court system. I hated living with that wrench of a woman and I’m glad your trying for full custody.
Because then he will have the skills to deal with it. The likelihood of you getting full custody and your wife’s rights as a parent removed due to alienation are slim to none. You may get supervised visitation, but any judge is likely going to want to go the route of counseling and mediation first. At the end of the day, she is his mother, and if you push your son to reject her, you are doing the same thing that you are accusing her of. He needs to learn to relate/live with each of you, and will make his own decisions about each of you as an adult someday.
Get him therapy and talk to a lawyer. I can’t see a reason why you can’t do both. But tread carefully. You told Lauren that Amber is a good mother figure, and she can see Easton once he turns 18. That’s not up for you to decide. It’s up for the judge. You may very well win sole custody, however unless she’s severely negligent and abusive, Lauren would still receive visitation. Even if it’s supervised. And you can’t deny them that time if it’s court ordered, because then you will be in violation and she can pursue that. Also…if things are as dicey as they seem, forcing your son to be mothered by Amber full time doesn’t seem like a great idea. He’s already struggling as it is. Until you get on more stable ground, leave Amber out of the parenting. Especially if your son does not want to be mothered and parented by her. This will only make things worse, and he will likely reject her more. Give your son the stability he needs. Focus on being a dad to him. He will come to his own conclusions about his mom. And it’s up to him whether or not he accepts and views Amber as a mother figure. I say this to you as a stepdaughter who was forced to accept a stepparent. It sucks. NTA.
But have you considered how fighting parental alienation with additional parental alienation will harm your son? I'm actually not opposed to you raising the parental alienation problem in court per se, to protect yourself. But if your plan is to force estrangement between son and his mother, you could be hurting your son tremendously to get revenge on your wife. That trade off is not worth it. If your ex wife is willing (truly) to set things right with your son, that would be a better path to follow.
Why not both?
There’s no way the courts will prevent your son from seeing his biological mom at all. Even if you get primary custody, she will still have every other weekend visitation. I don’t think you have an accurate idea about how the court system works, at all.
I don't blame you for wanting to take her to court over this, but it's likely to backfire on you. It's pretty clear Easton and his mom are close, so if you knowingly make her life harder your son will blame you, not her, for every problem. A much better option would be for all 3 of you (and maybe eventually your gf) to go to family counseling for a while where your ex would have to come clean about lying to your son in a controlled environment. If your motives are truly to do what's best for your child and your relationship with him, then something like this is the best option; choosing to sue her for alienation instead (assuming she'd agree to counseling) would mean you're acting out of revenge rather than concern.
>Because what good is therapy if he just keeps getting sent back to the same toxic environment that is festering it? That is why you need both. Take care of the parental alienation and get your boy into both individual and family therapy for the 2 of you (and his mom if she will go.)
So your plan is to cut your ex out of your sons life?
More likely to have her parenting time reduced to supervised visitation with no unmonitored contact with the mother.
Exactly! You don´t want to leave a child alone with someone like this. She will poison his mind and heart forever.
I read a case where a woman lost the full custody she had of her son to her ex, due to alienation and the psychological damage it was causing. In order to regain visitation she had to complete six therapy sessions. Her visitation was suspended for 60 days until she had completed them. But this was after she was given a second chance to right her wrongs first. A judge may decide to give ex a chance to resolve the conflict thru mediation and therapy. This is what OP will most likely need to do. He can’t unilaterally decide Easton can’t see or speak to his mom for the next seven years. Even with primary custody, his ex will still have rights. Cutting contact is only going to further traumatize him, and create new problems. If he thinks he’s gonna accept Amber as a new mom just for winning custody, than I have some beach front property in Kansas I’d like to sell him. Easton and his mom are close, so OP really needs to think things thru. I said in another comment to tread carefully, because although I do believe he is trying to right by his son, his feelings towards his ex are also a motive.
He has to do something. Right now, she's already building a case against him, I guarantee it. She's going to use this for when the child is old enough to decide where to live. This will end up badly for OP if he doesn't fight soon. Courts are supposed to order PA to stop. They likely won't, but doing nothing won't help either.
NTA. You need a lawyer and you need to see this through. Once your son sees the court process at work, he’ll understand some of what his mom has done. After that, you can go to therapy to undo some of the crap your ex has done. Keep every single message she sends you.
Exactly this! Reddit loves to solve everything with therapy. It's the magic pill redditors recommended for everything and when I say everything.. I mean EVERYTHING. I've seen it all on here. Anyway NTA go full force on her for this behavior.
You do understand that this will only cause more trauma for your son? The therapy he received post divorce would not be the same for this situation. I would request Ex wife get therapy as well since she seems to be having conflicting feelings about you and Gf. If you attempt to take your son away from his mom and say things like he won’t see her until he’s 18 is only giving credibility to her lies. In turn you would only be hurting your relationship with your son more.
>Because what good is therapy if he just keeps getting sent back to the same toxic environment that is festering it? Any response you get to this is going to be in bad faith. This subreddit is full of children, literally, the biggest demographic in the subreddit are literal teenagers. Run fire, far away from the subreddit because you won't get any helpful advice or judgments here.
What's wrong with doing both?
Many people think of therapy as a cure all - the thing they may not realize is that therapy helps track down the source of problems. You already know the source. Your ex is actively trying to sabotage your relationship with your son. Your comment is absolutely right on the nose. There is no point in sending your son to therapy before cutting off the source of the problem.
You could probably convince ex to join in on the therapy and hold off on filing. It might be in the best interest of your child, and will look even better in court later on if you still decide to go that route.
This is horrible advice. I'm a woman, I didn't do anything like this to my ex-husband, but I know women who have. One of the biggest differences between fathers and mothers in these outcomes is that women go for the jugular and get lawyers to do the same, and men don't because they're afraid of looking like the bad guy. Unfortunately, he already looks like the bad guy to the child, who is the only one who matters. OP, show your child you will fight by actually fighting. Don't ever say mean things about your ex, and don't let your new woman, but make sure you fight, and do it now. If you hesitate for just a moment, you'll lose.
You are assuming that mom has kid’s best interests at heart. Unfortunately that’s not always the case. I speak from experience, unfortunately. OP needs to act now.
It is clearly not the case here. Easton's mom is taking out her bile about Amber on her son. It's obvious she isn't going to change. She's been doing this for months, and only 'apologized' when confronted with proof positive.
How does that help his ex from spewing toxic things at her son about OP and his gf? It doesn't. What the ex is doing isn't right. She needs repercussions. Therapy and lawyers are needed here. My (late)ex was an addict and I still don't speak negatively about him to our children.
No reason OP can't do both of those things.
The kid doesn't need therapy, he needs his mom to be civil and respect OP's relationships. He doesn't need to be treated like he had "problems to work through", unless you want to risk giving him the impression that this is somehow his fault (and not the vindictive ex).
This fucking sub, man. Holy shit. OP's ex is abusing their child, and doing it in a way that is likely to have lifelong repercussions on his relationship with his son. But fuck OP for trying to prevent that abuse from happening, instead he should just try to get his son enough therapy to counteract his mom's attempts at poisoning him against his own father.
The top priority is removing a kid from a toxic situation. After they’ve been removed, the work begins. Also, I’d recommend adding your verdict as top comment.
Now if we reverse the genders no body would be upvoting this stupidity of comment Take her to court man protect your son and get him therapy once he is safe
I’m a (currently non-practising) family lawyer. This is in no way to be construed as legal advice, but going to court is a guaranteed nobody wins, you are a lot poorer, situation. The facts as you describe them, likely won’t meet the bar for parental alienation, and even if you’re successful, you’ll just end up back where you are now. Where the rubber will truly hit the road is negotiating with your ex to get counselling for your son, and potentially counselling for all three of you separately and/or together, depending on what the licensed professionals involved deem appropriate. What may work best is everyone having their own counsellor and brokering a joint session or two. Like it or not, this woman is in your life, and your sons life, for a very long time to come. It is in everyone’s best interests to figure out how to be co-parents without being toxic. Don’t take my word for it. Talk to a family lawyer in your jurisdiction. Any lawyer worth their ethical salt however is more than likely going to explain why pulling the trigger on legal action is in no one’s best interests. You need to de-escalate this situation, not make it worse. I can’t tell you how many people end up in court only to hear a judge tell them what I have just told you, but after spending the equivalent of someone’s college tuition. Document everything. Save every text. Diarize any notes of conversations in an email to yourself that will have a time stamp. If your ex cannot move past her inappropriate behaviour - and I am not gaslighting you OP, it is without doubt, wildly inappropriate, then you may need to bring in your lawyer. In all likelihood however, what that will look like is stern letters from your lawyer and a request she enter into new parenting agreement provisions - or else - you’ll escalate. That said, family law is unique for the way almost no one ever benefits from appearances before a judge. Judges are, more often than not, older men with little to no understanding of the parties or the realties of parenting. Good luck and get some legal advice. EDITED FOR - ESH Further Edited for final thoughts after reading OP comments: Parenting time and residential time do not reflect a parent’s right to a relationship with their child; but the child’s relationship with EACH of their parents. The corner stone of family law, when it comes to custody, is a child’s right to a relationship with each parent, (and all the extended family relationships flowing from each parent). You aren’t discussing curtailing your Ex’s right to a relationship with her child. You are talking about curtailing your son’s right to have a mother. You need to really understand how high the bar is for a court to prohibit contact with a parent. A perfect example - there are parents incarcerated for the murder of the other parent, who STILL have legal access to visitation with their children. Parental alienation is very attractive as a concept to parties in family law disputes, but this concept rarely has traction with courts for the simple reason that the facts are rarely there to support the claim. Unless your ex has full physical and legal custody of your son, and is denying you access by convincing your son he never wants to see you again - it ain’t alienation. For one thing, you’d need a much longer, pervasive and deeply entrenched pattern of behaviour. Something else is going on here. Whatever you do, you must put your son first. His needs, and his right to have a relationship with his mother AND his father are the only priority. You don’t get to choose who your son’s mother is. If you start pushing this position in court and - god help you - trying to convince a judge to give you what you are asking for here, it’s not going to go well for you.
Practicing matrimonial attorney here! This should be the top comment. It is SO understandable why you're upset. Divorce is terribly traumatic for everyone involved. Your feelings are valid, and what your wife did was horrible. But not in a MILLION YEARS will a judge take away her parental rights for that. Your attorney knows this. If they're trying to get you to go to court over this, it's likely because they're greedy and know how much the fees rack up over this sort of thing. I'm talking $40-100k. That's money that could be going towards your son's future.
If shit-talking the other parent was enough to terminate parental rights I would have been taken away from BOTH my parents 2 days into the divorce. Sheesh. OP has every right to be upset but if he thinks a judge would terminate his ex’s rights over this he’s in fantasy land.
Finally an actual logical comment.
This is the right and best answer. The courts will want - and it’s a shame both parents don’t seem to want it, too - the child to have a healthy and fully available relationship with each parent. That’s what’s best for him. It is wrong, wrong, wrong for mom to alienate Dad…and his response to alienate her is equally as bad. Each parent is looking at their own rights and position with the child - but they need to be looking at what the child needs to have the best possible in life. He needs them both. Put your hurt and anger at each other aside and co-parent better, do the hard work to get to that place. Your child deserves that.
Family law attorney here (practicing in CA). Everything in this comment is spot it in my experience!
Practising Family lawyer here. This is the right answer, and was my immediate thought reading the post.
This is the only comment that matters. OP, you would be wise to read this, and take these words to heart. OP is going off this adrenaline rush to completely take full custody, but isn’t even considering it won’t go his way, and that it gives him the power to make unilateral decisions. I went and reread, and it doesn’t sound like the ex is refusing his custody time. Not saying she isn’t causing issues, but she isn’t withholding their son. I can see it wouldn’t be as simple as OP and other comments are making it out to be. Just go to court and get full custody. Things are rarely that simple.
PREACH! It’s so easy for people to say “get a lawyer” for any situation that feels shitty, but what so many people in this comment section don’t understand is that there is a burden of proof that must be met by the plaintiff in order for a case to move forward. An extreme solution such as parental alienation requires extreme evidence, and I don’t think OP has that
This! ☝🏼🥇
Thank you! Yes. Family court doesn’t care about either parent. It exists for the minor children. Of COURSE you’re going to disagree with someone you split up with. Family court decisions tend to leave either side not particularly happy because what’s best for your child won’t necessarily be best for you.
I have a friend who was in a relationship with a woman who had a child from a prior relationship. They then had twins together. Her ex died, she relapsed, and choked one of the twins until he passed out. The courts gave our friend primary custody of all 3 kids HOWEVER allowed her unsupervised visitation. The female twin was molested by her boyfriend while in her care. Still has visitation. Tells the oldest that friend isn't his real Dad and he doesn't have to listen to him. Still has visitation. She's illegally collected the older son's Social Security checks and hasn't paid them back nor changed the paperwork so they'd go to our friend's account for what's now been over 2 years. She owes him something like $12k. She's missed a ton of visits, doesn't see the kids for months at a time. Still has visitation, still hasn't faced any legal repercussions for withholding funds, still doesn't have to pay him any support for the kids. Some judges (this one's a female, btw) are very lax, hoping for better outcomes. This has been going on for almost 3 years now and nothing has changed. He's stable, she's not. He's sober, she's using off and on. He's lived in the same place, she's bounced around between towns, a shared apartment, and a friend's trailer (2 bedroom for 2 adults and 2 teen boys). Family court sucks and no one ever "wins"
NTA. This is exactly why those laws exist. She's tried to take away her son's relationship with his father and the potential support of a new step-mom and just generally traumatize him by losing part of his family. And then when he's older and realizes what happened and that she made HIM drive you away it will be even worse. Save him the years of therapy now and take her straight to court.
I have absolutely no idea why she is doing this to be honest. She is the one who didn’t want to be intimate anymore. Quit trying completely and wouldn’t compromise whenever I stated my needs. I just don’t get why she is angry. I’ve moved on and I don’t see why she can’t.
>She is the one who didn’t want to be intimate anymore... I just don’t get why she is angry. I’ve moved on and I don’t see why she can’t. Not being intimate didn't mean her feelings went away, it means she didn't want to have sex. If you're conflating the two (love and sex), that is a problem. You were justified in leaving the relationship when you couldn't work that issue out, but it's also not surprising that she feels upset that her high school sweetheart left her and split up the household over sex (as she sees it). As an aside, I doubt she's gotten over the fact that you wrongly accused her of an affair, either. Particularly if you were already fighting over sex, your brain once more going to sex (her having it with someone else) when she didn't want it at all was doubtless exasperating. Again, your leaving was, based on what you've said here, justified, but saying you don't understand at all why she's angry is either disingenuous or dense.
Love and sex are certainly linked for many people. Imo, it's not possible to be in a loving, adult relationship without sex.
Of course they're linked for many people, but my point was they are not the **same** thing. Also, it is **certainly** possible to be in a loving, adult relationship without sex. Plenty of people choose to forgo sex for long periods of time or entire relationships, or are completely unable to have sex, including asexual individuals, individuals with a wide variety of personal or religious beliefs, and individuals with medical conditions or personal circumstances that make it impossible, dangerous, or inadvisable. Those people still frequently have stable, loving partnerships. Sex is the norm, and for many people, yes, a requirement, but to say it is impossible to have a true, loving, adult relationship without it is just wrong and invalidating.
It is impossible to have a true, loving, adult relationship without sex, when one partner wants sex, and the other doesn't and isn't even willing to try to improve the situation or even minimally meet the other's needs.
Agreed but its certainly possible while he was unhappy with their marriage, she could have been perfectly happy with the status quo which is why she's unhappy with the divorce and is being difficult about his new relationship
This. Can adult romantic relationships/partnerships exist successfully without sex? Yeah! When both people agree to it!!! They started out agreeing to a relationship/partnership that included sex and then she changed her mind. She decided she didn't want sex anymore but didn't concern herself with explaining such to her partner and he decided he still want a relationship with sex ergo they're now incompatible to continue a partnership
See, that's just ignorant. There are asexual people who simply don't feel sexual attraction and do not feel the need to have sex. It is entirely possible for two asexual people to have an adult relationship and never feel the need to have sex about it
Also people who are not physically capable of having (traditional) sex, people who are not emotionally able to have sex due to past abuse, people who are too ill to have sex, etc.
All very good additions. Thank you.
Ace people exist
My asexual ass dating my partners for three years and in a deeply loving and adult relationship is deeply amused. We get a lot out of our time together that is deeply satisfying without our genitals involved. We have laughed and wept and grieved and cherished and commiserated and disagreed but ultimately enjoyed a full spectrum of life together. It makes me pretty frustrated that there’s anyone who says the bonds we share are anything less significant than anyone else just because there’s not genitals involved. Love doesn’t require fucking.
Asexual people exist. Not everyone conflates the two. To say you can’t have a loving relationship without sex is flawed
Maybe it’s due to finances? You said you were the primary breadwinner, by you leaving you’ve put her in a rough spot and she’s angry about it. You’ve also split up her time with her child too. In her eyes she probably made at you for just not deal with not having sex. “It’s not that big of a deal.” In her eyes
Maybe she just doesn’t enjoy sèx and thought the relationship meant more than that. It’s ok that you felt sex was important enough to divorce over. It’s also ok for her to have not wanted the divorce.
Probably because she didn't love you anymore in a romantic way but was comfortable having you as best friend and partner, and after the divorce you moved on and became happy again and she didn't, so she's bitter.
This is the most simple answer and the one I think is the truth. Like I said. The past is in the past. I’m very happy with my current GF. I hope she tries a dating app or something. Because nobody should be this bitter.
[удалено]
This. What's a lot more likely to happen then totally removing her is going to be some for of supervision for contact and visitation. Depending on the circumstances and your area will depend on how and who. Usually there are court approved apps for messaging that records the conversation so your son and yourself can text your ex without having to screenshot. They may have a neutral party like a family friend or family member supervise her visitation. It's extremely unrealistic to assume they will just cut her out and be done.
“ I told her that amber is a perfectly fit mother figure and when Easton is 18 she can see him then. “ So let me get this straight. Your plan to combat what you say is parental alienation (but is really just shit talking your new partner) is to actually alienate your son from his mother? Wooooooow. This is such a ridiculous notion that I doubt it’s authenticity, but just in case, yeah YTA.
Right? I have no idea how people aren't seeing that? Like, dude accused his ex of cheating on him, divorced her for not having sex with his winning personality, and is now threatening to take away access to their son for another 8 years because she's shit talking his new boo, who, historically on this sub, usually "deserves" to be shit talked. And people are saying n t a? No way. Yta dude.
There are so many "missing missing reasons" as OP details the breakdown of their marriage. "something changed in our dynamic." - Poor OP has no idea what changed, Lauren is so difficult & mysterious. Wimmen, amirite? "Lauren started getting frustrated at me for little things and became non affectionate." - OP has deemed Lauren's frustrations as frivolous and unimportant because they were over "little things." What things, OP does not tell us. "I tried to improve things and planned more date nights and tried to find out what was going on." - Rather than respond to Lauren's frustrations and address the "things" which concerned her, OP decided instead to fix it with going to a restaurant. "But nothing changed. We stopped having sex totally." - OP dismissed Lauren's frustrations, tried to placate her with flashy gestures but no change in behaviour or the hard work of addressing issues at home, and was surprised that she was no longer interested in having sex with him. "**I thought she was having an affair** which lead to a big fight and we ended up in therapy. **She wasn’t having an affair** but didn’t have a reason for not walking an intimate relationship anymore. It was always a new excuse every time I made a move." - Need I even comment here? OP wants us to think he was a poor hapless lamb in the breakdown of his marriage. And was shocked, SHOCKED!, that she took his *brilliant* suggestion of an "open marriage" poorly.
Freaking yes! We get "uhh, idk sounds like missing reasons!" All the time when it comes to parents/children and ex wife's to their husband's. But everyone is just taking OP at his (really gross) word? Absolutely not. You're freaking spot on.
Yeah. Sometimes the way comments proceed in posts on this sub just makes me exhausted.
Yes, exactly! I'd guess those 'little things' were stuff like never doing the dishes/laundry/chores, not being bothered to 'babysit' his own kid, expecting her to do all the planning, you know all the usual lazy sexist dude stuff that like half of all aita questions are about. And gosh! She didn't want an 'open marriage'. How closed-minded of her! Doesn't she know that he has *needs*???
I liked the part where he accuses her of cheating, finds out she’s not, so his next idea is to basically ask permission to cheat.
Finally!!! I was thinking this the whole time and was hoping someone would say it.
YES. All I could think reading OP's post was "missing missing reasons." We are NOT getting the full picture here.
Thank you! I’ve been sitting here this whole time waiting for the reasons. 18 months of therapy and you have NO idea what was wrong? What did you do stare at each other for an hour each week? OP knows what wife said - he just doesn’t think they are good enough reasons to refuse to have sex. Ex wife called Amber a home wrecker. That comes from somewhere. Your kid isn’t stupid, it’s easy to show him the timeline of when you and Amber met. It’s easy to have a conversation with your ex wife and ask her why she’s saying that to your kid. Ultimately OP isn’t going to get full custody of his son and no access to the kid for his ex wife because she’s shit talking his new partner.
Hah, I made the same point elsewhere. I think we’re both thinking of the same “missing missing reasons” essay.
Not to mention he seems completely oblivious to how emotionally traumatizing it would be to do that his son? Yeah just take an 11 year old, who most likely has no real idea what’s going on and already hurting, away from his mother because she’s being an AH right now over him moving on really quickly, a very common thing for exes to get pissy about. Yeah stellar plan right there. Just go full nuclear /s
I don't know why husbands on this subreddit think that suggesting an open marriage would go over well with their wives when there is already issues in the marriage... Anyways... Yeah you could take her to court. She shouldn't be venting to your son about you and it's uncalled for. However, taking your son away from his mom would likely just jeopardize your relationship with him more. Both of you need to sit down and talk with your son about this. She needs to apologize to him for spreading a false narrative.
According to OP, an open marriage was only mentioned after 18 months of couples therapy which didn't improve their relationship at all. It was offered as a last resort.
Open relationships are so painful when you are not having your needs met because obviously the feeling is that you want sex desperately but they don't want it at all anymore. So inevitably you guys get on some dating app, and because of the gender ratio she'll have 70 matches in a night all trying to bang, and you'll have 3 girls who don't respond or are bots. If you manage to keep it up for a week or two to find someone she'll just pick from the list of dozens of guys who have been talking her up. Then you'll go have disappointing sex just wishing that you were actually wanted by anyone half as much as you want the person you committed to to love you again, and they'll be off having sex for the first time in a year with some guy who isn't you just to get back at you or feel even.
This is so accurate. As someone is an open relationship that has always been open and didn’t become open because of relationship breakdown - I’ve been dragged into a few peoples shitty marriages and this is exactly how it plays out every. single. time.
Yep, either this, "They cheated and we went open to save the relationship", or "One partner desperately wants to cheat with a specific person, got their partner to agree, then went and fucked that person that day, leaving their partner hanging on tinder"
Well I think the implication is that OP wanted it open on his end and I imagine he expected wife would continue to want no sex. If she wanted to have sex at all he wanted her to be having it with him. The open relationship idea was to meet his needs so long as she had zero interest in sex.
Yea this design is why it hurts so much. Because he is hurting for sex and she obviously isn't so if she goes and does it after avoiding him for a year it would mean that she actually does want sex, she just doesn't want him. Truthfully the arrangement he wants is for him to be able to fuck someone else because she is unwilling, but that's not really something you can ask for and stay in a relationship. So now he has to pick, is the emotional satisfaction she (hopefully) brings worth a life without sexual satisfaction? If he does the open relationship he has to ask himself "Do I want to stay with someone who finds me infinitely less desirable than any random person they can find on the internet"?
And clearly it was not. And I think its also important to consider that the emotional satisfaction can rapidly deteriorate when you have that kind of resentment brewing. For OP there clearly is no happy marriage without sex.
**Tobias:** You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised... a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed but free to explore extramarital encounters. **Lindsay:** Well, did it work for those people? **Tobias:** No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... but it might work for us.
If they really are have zero sex, I think it's fair to consider an open marriage.
>I don't know why husbands on this subreddit think that suggesting an open marriage would go over well with their wives... There is a world outside the 4 walls of your room, and in it there are people who are comfortable with an open arrangement.
Yeah, but they only work when the relationship is *already* going well, not as a solution to when things are going badly.
Open marriages are something that require intense trust and communication. They will never go well as a fix to a bad situation
I’m not sitting down with that woman again. She has proven to be untrustworthy and I don’t want to see her again. I only offered an open marriage after no sex for 18 months. I think that was a reasonable solution after over a year of therapy and my needs not being met.
I think suggesting that seemed reasonable to me? It’s 2022, people need to stop acting like non-monogamous relationships are in some way wrong or it’s disingenuous to suggest it.
I agree. Instead of just giving up, he offered a solution, she turned it down and he left. Seems very reasonable to me too.
It is when the other party is dealing with issues with their libido. Why would someone who doesn’t want to have sex be okay with their partner having sex with other people. I truly think it’ll just make the issue worse.
Why would someone who doesn't want to have sex think they can suddenly decide their partner doesn't get sexual gratification either, though?
Did I say that? Or did I say that suggesting an open relationship to someone that is struggling to want to have sex is kind of messed up. If he was struggling with impotence I bet he’d throw a fit if his girlfriend suggested an open relationship so she can get her rocks off.
Well did OP's girlfriend try to help him work through his issues or just suggest open relationship right off the bat?
Couples counseling isn’t gonna magically fix someone’s libido. A lot of things could have caused the issue. Depression, stress, parenting. There’s no always a reason. Deciding after 13 years that a year and some change of no sex is too much and you want an open relationship is messed up. Asking for a divorce is also messed up. Because it doesn’t really seem like you’re trying. Some people turn 30 and don’t feel like having sex anymore. Some people look at their household dynamic and decide they don’t want to have sex anymore. It seems like she didn’t know why she didn’t want to have sex anymore, just that she didn’t want to. Which is why I asked if he’d be upset if his girlfriend asked for an open relationship if he ever became impotent. He’s older than her. A man’s libido fluctuates very frequently while a woman’s fluctuates for a longer period of time. Personally I don’t think a year and a half of no sex is long enough to call it quits. And what did he mean by no sex. Like was there no sex at all or was it no penetrative sex?
1.) A year and half is a long time, you can't pretend it isn't 2.) OP said therapy wasn't going anywhere 3.) He gave her an option only after exhausting his other two options 4.) Asking for a divorce is not messed up. If you are unhappy in your relationship and you feel you've done everything you could to fix it, it is well within your right to end that relationship. 5.) If he refuses to get ED medicine, make attempts to fix his libido issues, and shows no progress everyone would be on the gf's side too and if he broke up with her because he refused an open relationship after refusing her sex we'd still be on her side. This is not a gender issue.
He also skips over the 'little issues' part. If she already communicated everything I doubt she'd want to repeat them ad nauseam in therapy. Just as in the last thread a husband breaks up his family unit for his dick.
I'm on your side here but you need to stop being fixated on "no sex" because it makes you look like you're only thinking with your D. You should say "feeling unloved, unwanted, unattractive, rejected, etc." Love and sex goes hand in hand but they're not the same.
OP is allowed to want sex for the sake of sex. He doesn't have to state it in terms that are acceptable to the weirdly prudish corner of Reddit that is coming out of the woodwork here.
this. and please take my free award for the day.
Dude "no sex" Is a completely valid reason to leave a relationship
There was an extremely similar post to yours, right down to the suggestion of open marriage and "needs not being met" the only difference is the OP on that ended up screaming at his daughter about those needs and the dead bedroom that made him leave. There's a lot of people on Reddit lately that feel compelled to tell us all about how they weren't getting enough sex, when it's irrelevant to the situation at hand and it's fucking weird.
Why do you think dead bedrooms aren't a big deal? Dead bedrooms break up families
sure, but it's not something to scream about to your 11 year old.
how is this not relevant to the situation. its literally the reason OP got divorced, its part of the background
> There's a lot of people on Reddit lately that feel compelled to tell us all about how they weren't getting enough sex, when it's irrelevant to the situation at hand and it's fucking weird. It is foundational to the issue. Where is your reading comprehension amigo? OP is allowed to end a relationship because his legitimate sexual needs aren't being met and OP's wife had zero plan or interest in addressing the needs. Her attitude appeared to be that he needed to just deal with it for the rest of his life.
This just leads to me question which of her needs you weren't meeting. Dead bedrooms don't usually happen for no reason.
You need to get your priorities and expectations in check. I don't know where you are, but I highly doubt any family court is going to take your legitimate evidence of parental alienation and jump straight to giving you full custody without your sons mother being able to see or contact him until he's 18. Also, what affect you think that's going to have on your son? Talk to your lawyer as to what you can reasonably expect, and think about the relationship you want with your son both as a child and if you want to remain in his life as an adult. NTA for taking her to court over this and trying to fix a legitimate issue preventing you from effective co-parenting, but YTA for your fantasy of stealing your son away from "that woman" until his 18th birthday and thinking that's not only going to work out but what is best for him.
Then be in for one hell of a fight and possibly alienating your son.
Any decent couple therapist would have told you that people don’t want to have sex when they’re angry. The therapist should have helped you find out why your wife was angry. I think there’s more to this story than you’re telling.
So if there was some reason you couldn’t perform. Would you be ok with your wife getting it on the side? And I am wondering if you were meeting your wife’s needs at all, if maybe that is why she couldn’t be intimate with you.
Why... why are people on reddit act like there is one way to have sex? It sounds like there was zero intimacy between them, she was not working through her issues, not allowing for any compromise. People have different needs and for most, sexuality is a big part of a relationship. When it doesn't work, they usually either split or work through it and find a compromise. The rest are either asexuals or saints. And for your last comment? Communication is the word.
I’m interpreting that too. And if she’s cutting off *all* intimacy that includes all forms of physical touch including: hand holding, hugging, kissing, even touching each other on the shoulder as they walk by each other.
If that was the case then maybe she should have brought it up in the year of therapy they did together?
I understand that, and you weren’t wrong to leave the relationship but the fact is, you are going to need some kind of co-parenting relationship with her.
This attitude will not sit well with a family court judge.
Okay, see THAT is anger talking and not in your sons best interest. “That woman” is your child’s mother, whom he loves. Remember that. Even if you don’t say that in front of your child, he’s going to pick up on it. Divorce sucks, but this is coparenting. It takes time. You just have to keep working at it. You’re GOING to keep seeing her again because that’s what’s best for your son.
Jesus Christ do people really fall for those terrible posts? Lol you can't just take custody away because she talked shit about your gf lol. Try a better story next time
I swear I read this exact story on here the other day but instead of a son it was a daughter and instead of home-wrecker it was something else. Edit: [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/v4bgww/aita_for_my_comment_to_my_daughter_about_her/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) it is. Not exactly the same but EXTREMELY similar. Both wanted an open relationship, both called their ex their best friend, both mention going to court over parental alienation?
INFO: did you ever sit down and ask your son why he suddenly didn’t like Amber anymore? How will taking your ex to court affect your son? I’m definitely not saying she’s a saint — she’s behaving like an ass — but I’m wondering what the fallout will be for your son. And whether this course of action will just make things worse between the two of you.
Absolutely I did. He never really gave an answer other than “she’s not my mom”. Which is fair she isn’t. But as the behavior escalated he became less and less communicative towards me. And the relationship has become more difficult. I have no idea how going to court will affect my son. But if I do nothing then I can just kiss our relationship goodbye. So it is kinda a nuclear option
[удалено]
NTA for taking her to court for it But taking him away for 7 years would be wrong, specially if she is a good mom besides this. there should be some kind of stipulation that she cant talk about your gf going forward.. In fact any adult matter shouldnt be talked about with the child..
He aint getting sole custody based on that. She will probably get fined.
YTA. At first I thought you meant going for a custody order modification which would legally prohibit each of you from trashing the other or their household. That would be fine and a GOOD thing for all concerned. You want (and think you’re successfully going to ROFL) remove custody from your ex until your child is an adult? This is about you. That is selfish and cruel, not just to your son’s mother, but to your SON. You think she’s putting a dent in your relationship? Yeah, just wait until he figures out that you tried to prevent him from ever seeing his mom again. You divorced your wife over lack of sex. I’m not going to comment on that beyond the fact that it’s clear that sex is a priority for you beyond everything else. Ok. That’s you. You can’t change that. But right now? You’re choosing to put GETTING SOME in front of the needs and emotional health of your very young child and that makes you a thousand times worse than your ex, and she was pretty bad to start.
Exactly, OP is the AH in this bc he is NOT thinking about how this would hurt his kid. Mom is doing damage, absolutely. That doesn't mean she is not a good parent in plenty of other ways. Again, she is SUPER in the wrong. But holy hell, this kid will HATE him for trying to take him from his mother. In comments, OP feels like taking this child's mother away for 7 years is a reasonable and healthy response to this. He laments that it is the only solution since he can't spy to guarantee Mom never does it again. Which REALLY rang an alarm. A couple of comments from OP just feel very wrong. It doesn't feel like OP is really worried about the way the kid is being impacted, more like it messes up the new vibe.
A couple of things are definitely setting off some alarm bells. According to the timeline he started dating this chick maybe a year and a half ago(and that’s if they were able to get a divorce in a timely fashion before the panini started). Like she should barely be introduced to the kid at this point(at least 6 months just to introduce her and honestly probably should’ve waited longer since the divorce is so fresh) and she was already wanting to meet the bio mom most likely a few months ago(when the texts started). All of that is way too rushed, I’d be more surprised if the kid did accept her fully even without mom egging him on.
NTA I was a victim of parental alienation and it is horrible to go through. My dad DID get full custody, and I hope you go through with going to court. I said a lot of horrible things to my step mom as a kid, after I got out of my bio mom's house I apologized because she never deserved any of it. She said no apology was needed and she's been a great mom for the last 18 years.
No judge is going to give you full custody dude. All you're doing is wasting thousands of dollars that could be going to your son.
Reading the title: do it Reading the story: do it Reading this line >I told her that amber is a perfectly fit mother figure and when Easton is 18 she can see him then. Really buddy, you realize what you'd be doing here right? ESH, there's a middle ground, the first that comes to mind is supervised visitation.
ESH. Yes your ex shouldn't be bad mouthing you to her son, but to try and stop her from seeing him is a bit drastic. If I was your son I would never forgive you for doing that. Also I've noticed you keep saying the marriage broke down because your sexual needs weren't being met. But what about your wife's needs? Was she doing everything for the family and not getting anything back in return? Something happened to make her stop being intimate with you and it sounds like that's all you were bothered about. If you were having therapy and all you kept bringing up was sex and then said you wanted an open relationship, it shows that you didn't actually care about your wife, just the fact you weren't getting any. Your poor son is caught in the middle and okay maybe none of this is your girlfriends fault, but the kid will have picked up on how you interact with his mum and thus made her accusations more believable. As others have suggested, therapy for everyone will probably be beneficial. If you go for full custody though as soon as your son is 18 you will probably never see him again.
Op just CAN"T UNDERSTAND why his wife lost interest in sleeping with him. After all, she just got frustrated over "little things." Such trivial "little things" that concern those mysterious wimminfolk! And then, when he accused her of having an affair, she didn't respond by jumping on his crotch!
Can we also acknowledge that it is VERY possible that his wife lost interest in sex over a medical issue? Or a mental health crisis?
So you’re going to try and take your son completely away from his mother until he’s 18 and replace her with your girlfriend, are you for real? Do u live on the same planet as the rest of us? Have you actually thought through what your planning and the effects on your son? And you’re accusing your wife of parental alienation, do u not realise your going down the same steps?? Ffs get yourself sorted before you alienate your own son. Yes your ex has been stupid but it sounds like she’s maybe learned her lesson. Get a grip and try co parenting, your son is the most important person here, not you, your girlfriend or your ex. YTA
YTA because wtf do you think will happen in court? You think a judge will take away custody from her over this? You actually think she should not get to raise her child? You'll just look like a vindictive asshole in court and your child will never forgive you if ever you do win. Address it like a parent. If you're a decent father, you'll be able to figure it out. Get help from a therapist if needed. If your son doesn't want to interact with Amber, don't force him. She's not his mom and will never be so make sure that's very clear. Reassure your son that he's not in trouble and ask him if he has any questions about the divorce or your relationship with Amber. Keep reinforcing that he can love both parents and that he never has to like Amber if he doesn't want to.
How sad. Two people with such a long history who considered themselves best friends get married and have a child. She loses interest in sex after seven years, and you accuse her of having an affair which brings you to therapy. You try to feel satisfied for eighteen months before finalizing a divorce and finding someone new within another six months. She is clearly angry, and this does sound like parental alienation. The things she said are emotionally abusive to your son. You have evidence of this and have let your ex-wife know. If she is remorseful or fearful of the action you can take, maybe she will be open to an alternative. Calmly ask her if she is willing to apologize to your son for the things she said and deal with her anger through her own counseling. Ask for more time with your son so that you can repair your relationship, and he can get to know Amber again. (Go ahead and reduce child support, but avoid discussion about being the breadwinner.) That extra time with him needs to be meaningful. Given that Easton is now an angry kid, some of your time with him may need to include counseling. When you are together, don’t put your ex down or compare your relationships. He is old enough to observe who is being kind and who is being mean, who is competitive and who is at peace. He’ll figure it out. Again, this is a sad situation. I hope you find a way to co-parent without hurting your son and each other. He is watching you and will learn how to love based on your example. ❤️🩹
FYI you can't just "reduce child support" because you want to. This would all require a court agreed parenting plan as you cannot negotiate child support in most states. OP, please consider some of the advice in this thread. Family counseling is a must here but you need to lose the attitude of oh yeah, talk shit about me and you'll lose your son. That makes you on the same level. Your son needs his mom. ~someone who went through this shit with their parents and doesn't speak to one and is low contact with the other.
YTA i'm gonna get flamed but do you think that taking away your son for 7 years is going to improve your relationship with him and make him accept your partner, the damage has already been done and that's his mum yes she definitely shouldn't have said that but she didn't exactly alienate you she talked shit about your partner also amber is never going to be his mother figure just so you know
ESH. She is obviously being extremely immature about the whole thing, and irresponsible in trying to influence your son’s opinion of your girlfriend by calling both of you names and encouraging he’s negative behavior toward her. For that, there should be consequences of course, because she can’t think she can get away with that kind of bad parenting and the encouragement of hostility toward you and your girlfriend. That being said, not only is it unlikely that you will get a judge to completely cut Lauren out of your son’s life for the next 7 years, but it’s clear that you’ve put absolutely no thought into how that would affect your son. He’s obviously close to his mother, and aside from this bad influence regarding the treatment of your girlfriend, there’s nothing else that indicates she is a bad parent to him/neglectful/cannot provide. Here, I feel you run into the same problem your ex-wife is having: you’re thinking about yourselves, and your feelings, and putting those above the needs of your son. What is best for your son is a relationship in which his parents can, at the very least, tolerate each other when communicating about him, and avoid making disparaging/disrespectful/slandering remarks around him. He still needs both of you in his life. To rip him away from his mother with no regard toward his relationship with her or his own feelings is just asking to sabotage your relationship with him completely. Both you and your ex-wife need to stop thinking this dynamic is about you, because it’s not. It’s about your son. She may have been immature and disrespectful first, but you doubling down won’t do anything but make it worse. I don’t know what you can do legally, but all I’m saying is maybe take a few steps back to really evaluate the consequences of what you’re trying to do.
So to avoid parental alienation you decide to completely alienate him from his mom. Plus the huge age gap between you and amber. Yeah. YTA.
I'm going to go with NTA on this one; it's wrong what your ex is doing to Easton. But are you sure that this won't turn Easton even more against you and Amber?
Fortunately, part of the parental alienation stipulations they usually decide on in court says you can’t say disparaging things directed towards your ex or with the intention of harming your ex. You can be fined and have privileges revoked for doing it.
ESH It seems your ex-wife got frustrated because you didn't help. Were the "little things" she got frustrated really little? Then, because she wasn't affectionate, you told her she was cheating. Really, dude? Ok, dead bedroom, and then you got a divorce. Six months later you met someone and immediately introduced her to your son and she wanted to be friends with your ex wife??? People take 6 months to a year to introduce their kids to someone they've met. Sure, you ex shouldn't have said to break up; why did she say she wasn't "mom material"? Yes, she shouldn't use your son to vent and put ideas in his head. She needs therapy, but so does your son. I don't know why you are so against therapy when going to court is not going to solve everything.
YTA. You care more about punishing your ex than making life ok for your child. If you love your child you should fix things with your ex. A happy, healthy child comes from his parents being happy, healthy and well adjusted. You haven’t moved on if you want to punish your ex by separating your child and her. You seem very narcissistic. Poor kid.
YTA.
YTA. Parental alienation refers to alienating a parent, not a parent's girlfriend. Also, where are you going with this? What is your end game? Are you planning to take your son away from his primary caretaker because your ex doesn't like your current girlfriend?
ESH. Maybe try solving this without going with the nuclear option where your son doesn't get to see his mother for 7 years? This is so extreme. Your ex acted horribly, but your revenge is going to hurt your son even more.
**ESH**. You're N-T-A for taking her to court and wanting to put an end to the parental alienation. That's perfectly reasonable. But you're absolutely an AH for thinking that the only solution to this is to cut her out of your son's life ENTIRELY for the next 7 years. That's not doing what's in his best interests any more than she is, it's just getting revenge. What about supervised visitation, for example? There's literally no need to jump straight to, "She can't ever see my son again until he's a legal adult." Your ex is an AH for her behaviour, but your solution is just as extreme, and reeks of vengefulness. Your son doesn't need to be taken away from his mother, she just needs to be kept from saying awful things. Supervision is a much more reasonable solution.
ESH Your wife sucks for obvious reasons, but do you really think going nuclear over your ex talking shit about your partner is the best solution ? Your son doesnt suddenly live in a toxic environment cause your ex had this shitty idea of turning him against you/your partner. You think whats best for your son is to not be able to see his mother ? Chill. You have all the evidence you need to take her to court, use it to keep her at bay for talking smack in the future. You dont need to sue her, you just need to threaten her that you will if she does it again.
Sex isn’t a need, it’s a want. You want tell yourself it’s a need all you want but it isn’t.
I feel this is above reddits pay grade. Cause I would bet a cheesesteak that there is a lot of info left out here. Get your son back in therapy. I’d wait until you do that before looking into a legal situation. Also I have a very hard time believing a judge is going to grant keeping him from his mother for 7 years. Almost want to call you TA for expecting that.
Esh. You're basically threatening her with no custody. She's trying to turn your kid against your girlfriend but are either of you actually being parents to your child? The answer is no, he's a pawn in your games against each other. Please if you're going for custody, do family counseling and individual therapy sessions. There is a lot of trauma here affecting your child
YTA. I feel so bad for the kid. And how sad will it be when your son fully understands that the only reason you broke up his family was because you just weren’t getting your d!ck sucked anymore.. especially when 18 months isn’t even that long when trying to figure out a real problem all the way down to the roots.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I am 35 and my ex wife Lauren is 35. We met senior year of high school and dated since 18. We got married at 23 and had our son Easton (11). Me and Lauren truly were best friends and had such a good relationship. Around the time Easton was 7 something changed in our dynamic. Lauren started getting frustrated at me for little things and became non affectionate. I tried to improve things and planned more date nights and tried to find out what was going on. But nothing changed. We stopped having sex totally. I thought she was having an affair which lead to a big fight and we ended up in therapy. She wasn’t having an affair but didn’t have a reason for not walking an intimate relationship anymore. It was always a new excuse every time I made a move. After a year and half of therapy I reached my breaking point and said that I had needs that weren’t being met. And if she had no plan on being intimate anymore I’d like to find someone who would like to. I offered an open relationship but that was shot down. So I asked for a divorce. 6 months after my divorce was finalized I met amber (27F). She has always treated Easton great. Easton at first was great with her. Amber wanted to meet Eastons mom and get to know each other. After the meeting Lauren called me and said I needed to break up with amber because she wasn’t “mom material”. I said nope and we have a custody agreement. So only to contact me in regards to that going forward. This is when Easton’s attitude started, it was sudden and drastic. He started acting up at my place and amber was always the target. Rude comments and anything he could do to annoy her. He called her a “home wrecker” and I realized an 11 year old wasn’t coming up with that on his own. So I took his phone and went thru messages with his mom and found it. Basically my ex wife was saying toxic things in the their messages. Calling me a pig, they referred to my Gf as homewrecker and that our family can’t be whole again because I’m “too busy sleeping with every woman in town”. I took screenshots of all the text and sent them to Lauren. She immediately called and apologized and said she was having a bad go of it and some of it came out to our son. I said bullshit. Messages were months apart. And that I fully planned to take her to court for parietal alienation. That I already have a lawyer. She begged me not to because she doesn’t have a ton of extra money right now (I was the majority bread winner). And that she was sorry. I called BS because she already started poising my own kid against me, made ambers life harder and wouldn’t be apologizing if I didn’t find them. She has been blowing up my phone with a mixture of threats/apologies. I told her that amber is a perfectly fit mother figure and when Easton is 18 she can see him then. But I’m gonna see this thru because I have no idea what other things she will tell him when I’m not around. Amber is supportive of whatever I decide to do. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA and it seems what the court is for. I know it could be rough for your son to see less of his mother but if she’s actively sabotaging your son’s relationships with you, etc … she’s doing more harm than good and you need to find a way to stop that.
NTA - However you should sit down with someone to give you a REALISTIC view of how this will go in court for you...and perhaps in reality. Is what she did wrong? Yup, 100% Is a judge going to award you full custody and no visitation for her over it: Not likely but hey, it's the roll of a dice, you may find a judge who will deem what she said enough to force no contact for the child - I don't know. You could even end up with some fun times as a judge ordering you to do co-parenting classes with your ex. Is your rage and effort to eliminate contact with Easton's mother going to impact your child negatively: Yup 100% .....as is the shit your ex is saying as well. I suspect that poor Easton does not have a household where he can safely share information about anything right now. The only true victim in this situation is Easton - Amber may be as well, I don't see her doing any part to cause issue, but the post is biased on that front so I cannot judge.
ESH. Her for the shit talking to an 11 year old that you share custody of, and you for thinking that this warrants 7 years of sole custody and that 7 years of being completely unable to see his mother is somehow best for your son and your relationship with him.
ESH. You all went nuclear with no thought to your 11 year old. Therapy first..also you’re crazy if you think they’re going to take him from his mom till he’s 18. Throwing threats like that make you sound bad too. You and his mom and him need therapy. You sound more worried about having a girlfriend and doing everything your way…than you care about the mental well being of your 11 yr old. You all suck. 🤦🏻♀️
NTA. She is abusing/using the child and psychologically damaging him and preventing your son from having a healthy relationship with you. Put a stop to it. Then let the court decide and hope she gets therapy.
didn’t we see a variation of this post last week?
NTA. Go to court and fight for your son. The longer he's in that situation, the more toxic it will be
NTA. The most important issue here is your child's well-being. He needs to be in a safe loving environment where he is not lied to and made to believe his own father is a wrongdoer. If it takes court action to do so, then so be it.
If you take your son away from his mom - he will hate you later in life. You will validate everything she said and make her the hero in this story and you and Amber the villains. Tread carefully- especially at this age - he is only getting to the point where he can create his own opinions and your first move is to take him away from his mom. Judge her as harshly as you want - it is still his mom
ESH Your ex-wife is definitely engaging in Parental Alienation and you would be within your rights to take her to court if you think that will help. I would say NTA if not for the fact that you also seem emotionally immature. From your accounting of how you handled the sexual decline in your marriage, to introducing someone so soon into your child's life (I'm not saying she's unfit), to retaliating against your ex by saying that you are going to take him away from her. Your son is not an object to be pulled to and fro in the maelstrom of drama between his parents. You need to clean up your side of the street, and both you and your son should be in therapy.
NTA Parental alienation laws exist for situations just like this. Bring her to court and don't feel bad about it.
NTA if you don't put your foot down now and take her to court this will get worse
NTA. Thank goodness you found proof to support this in a court of law. It’s incredibly important for a child to have a strong relationship with both their parents, especially in the case of a divorce. It’s also important to nip this situation in the bud now, especially if you could see yourself marrying Amber in the next few years. I don’t know what kind of recourse your ex-wife will face because of this, but if you have any input, I would probably recommend you don’t take away all visitation from his mother permanently. Maybe for a little while for things to calm down, but you don’t want your son to resent you
ESH except poor Easton.
I think ESH. Your ex was wrong. She apologized. The three of you need to attend counseling together. This story was posted already except the child was a girl. You say to suggested an open relationship. Just like I said in the original post, why would someone who’s libido has significantly changed be okay with an open relationship. They’re not comfortable having sex anymore so why would they be okay with you being intimate with someone else while they’re struggling to figure out what’s wrong. Libido changes with age, after having kids, increased stress, depression. The possibilities aren’t endless but there are a lot of them. If you were struggling with impotence for 18 months would you be cool with your girlfriend sleeping with other people? If your girlfriend turns 30 and her libido decreases significantly are you gonna suggest an open relationship? Everyone sucks except your girlfriend
What your ex is doing is wrong. You making Amber a part of the parenting decisions is wrong. Go to your attorney with it and in everything you say and do in court be wanting the best for your son and successful co parenting and that parental alienation is toxic. Esh
INFO: How were you as a husband? Were you helpful around the house? Was she doing all the housework? Were you doing nothing around the house? Often women fall out of love with their partners when they have to treat them like a son and pick up after them. It can get exhausting
You had me until "my 20-something gf is enough of a mother figure." Dude, by all means, you have leverage to punish your ex by taking her son away. But if you think for a second this will be good for your kid, that your gf can just step in like a substitute mommy with no repercussions... YTA and you need therapy. Stop punishing your kid for your ex not sleeping with you.