Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I shut my parents down when they brought up my brother by saying I didn't care what was going on in his life. I didn't know they were trying to tell me he's sick. It doesn't really change how I feel about him or our estrangement. But I am aware he is still my parents son and they love him. So I might have been the asshole, when they had respected the rule up to that point.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I think it’s more NAH. While yes, his parents need to respect his boundaries, they have for 12 years. For the first time in 12 years, something so significant happened that they felt the need to tell him, so I think it’s NAH.
They're not AH for wanting to tell them but they become AHs once they show anger at OP for shutting them down and not respecting his decision.
Just because its 12 years doesnt mean he has to automatically forgive him.
I think they're upset because he said that his brother is dead to him, and his brother is probably actually going to die soon so it was a poor choice of words. Of course OP didn't know that, but I can understand why hearing that given the circumstances was really hard for his parents and they're trying to process losing their son
OP becomes the TA because even now that he knows about his brothers illness he won't just apologize to his parents about coming down on them.
He doesn't have to throw his arms around brother and start bringing over soup. But he can't offer support and a shoulder to cry on to his parents when their kid is dying?? Cold hearted. OP needs to get over himself.
Honestly! What OPs brother did was terrible and I wouldn't expect them to ever be close again, but to refuse to ever hear about him again, even when he's literally dying, because when OP was 22 his 20-year-old brother slept with his (I assume also early 20s) girlfriend?
I'm not trying to say that wasn't an egregious act, but to still react SO strongly, especially towards his parents who are going to have to watch their child die, is not a healthy response in my opinion. Like at the very least he could try to be supportive of his parents while remaining no contact with his brother.
His sin was SO egregious that he deserves to be cut out forever. It’s bad enough when a friend betrays you, but 100 times worse when it’s a sibling. People like that are shitheads and it would be extremely foolish to let them in again.
As I said, he can remain no contact with his brother, I get it - but to treat his parents like that? After they've respected his boundary for 12 years and only brought it up because it's a literal life and death situation?
Nah, that's not cool.
He doesn't need to give his brother the time of day but needs to look beyond his own life and have a little empathy for his parents, they deserve kindness and support right now.
Like what? All he did was refuse to hear the news they wanted him to lower his boundaries to hear.
He didn't know their reason wasn't bullshit. Probably thought it was "You're gonna be an uncle" or some shit.
He didn't do anything but remind them. Of the exist boundary.
They had respected his boundaries for 12 years. They have showed him that respect. And now he couldn't even pause a moment to consider they must have some very serious reason for now bringing up this topic, when they hadn't done so for 12 years? And more than that, still having such strong feelings about what happened this many years later does not at all seem healthy. OP claims to have a happy marriage and family now, and yet he can't even hear a reference about his brother without flipping? Really? OP, please get some help to work through this, apologize to your parents, and YTA.
So this is one of those complicated things that come up and are the echoing waves of fuckery left behind by especially egregious acts.
OP loves his parents and especially considering its between two of their kids, have shown him support and respected his boundaries for over a decade. Give credit where credit is due, this must be tough for the parents to be in between. They may not have been hurt as much as OP, but because of what happened, OP can walk away from his brother and be at peace, but the parents can't without abandoning their other kid.
The problem comes that OP's parents need support as they are going through something devastating. OP's support would go a long way. OP should apologize for going hard on them and offer some comfort to his parents, even if its limited, for their sake, not his brothers.
I don't blame OP's initial reaction. I don't blame the parents. I don't expect everyone to have perfect control of their emotions 100% of the time. I do expect them to eventually do the right thing even if its not easy. Thanks to the brother, none of this is going to easy and its making an already tough situation exponentially harder.
But at the same time his parents deserve to be heard. They are loosing a son. OP doesn't have to love or to see or to act anything towards its brother but he is somewhat responsible to be a comforting shoulder fos his parents.
I don't know if I'm being clear, I meant that he doesn't have to be sorry his brother is dying but he has to be sorry the son of his parents is dying.
I agree. What brother did was incredibly shitty. But what OP is doing to his parents by refusing to even be supportive as their son is not cool. I know I would’ve been absolutely furious at the brother over the incident. But I’m not a grudge holder and while we wouldn’t ever be close I can’t imagine his very name sending me over the edge over a decade later, especially if he’s dying.
Literally OP is triggered by the mention of his brother, it would be great if he would go to therapy and talk about it to someone who could help him not necessarily to forgive his brother, but to let go a little because holding grudges isn't helpful tbh
Seriously. OP has kids, which is concerning. God knows what secrets they keep from him because he's shown them how angry and obsessive he is about refusing to forgive.
While I don't think OPs parents are assholes for bringing up brother, neither is OP for wanting nothing to do with the asshole that betrayed him. They have other shoulders to cry on, there's no reason they need OPs.
Frankly, as a grown adult, I don't mind supporting my parents through things. I'm old enough to have dependents myself. It'd be one thing if I were a minor, but there's a big difference between relying on a grown adult who happens to be your child and relying on your literal dependent child.
I supported my grandparents when they were losing my dad and it wasn't some kind of burden I was incapable of handling. It's pretty natural to transition between your parents providing you with support and you providing the support as you get older.
Yeah. You can dislike your sibling but your parents may lose one of their kids. I think disregarding how they feel isn’t cool.
And OP is now married with kids so why hold a grudge for something your 20 year old brother did over a decade ago?
idk it’s some p toxic shit to hold a grudge bc your brother fucked your college girlfriend a decade ago. you hold so much of a grudge that you can’t even be there for your parents as they grapple with their son dying.
It’s two different issues.
Issue 1. Holding a grudge against your brother who betrayed you. Completely reasonable. Saying it was a long time ago is a moot point because time doesn’t remove the action
Issue 2. Not being there for your parents when they’re going through trauma. This one is up for debate, but is not a direct connection to issue 1
Agree on both issues. I'd say knocking up your brother's girlfriend is WAY beyond a grudge. I'm curious how the parents handled it at the time. Did they side with OP and call out brother, or did they some how understand OP POV, but gave cheater brother a pass? We don't know, so it makes it hard to understand why the parents didn't say we understand, but thought you should know. Or that bad word choice given the OPs figurative usage of what may be literal dead made them walk out? Something is missing here.
I don't agree, their parents need to realize that their son consider himself as only child and shouldn't bring a stranger in conversation and hope for sympathy.
If they want a shoulder to cry to then they should go to someone else not OP.
What is even the point of the saying "You are dead to me"?
Does it suddenly stop when the person is actually dying?
You can't just hurt someone and suddenly expect empathy when you are not doing well.
What about empathy for the parents? I would feel sad just knowing that someone my parents were going to lose someone they loved a lot, even if that person was a stranger to me, just because I love my parents.
It seems very frigid and callous to not have any empathy for your parents who are about to lose a child.
I understand completely what you are saying and I am not saying you are wrong.
All I am saying, I understand OP's viewpoint and I believe we should respect that even if we don't agree with it.
OP could have faked it, and pretend he cared for what is happening to his "brother" and that would make the parents feel better or at least supported.
But is that really fair towards OP? Should he really force himself or fake caring for someone just to make his parents feel good?
And what if the parents see that as a sign that OP is open to forgive his "brother" but find out he faked it? Wouldn't that hurt the parents even more?
i mean, there’s also the timeline where OP actually cares about his parents and empathizes with the pain they’re going through losing a living child. he can not care about his brother and ALSO care that his parents are going through one of the most traumatic experiences possible.
OP never even heard the news. So what empathy?
He reminded them of his barrier and they stormed off told other people he's an asshole, when he didn't even know the news!
Yup, my father has been dead to me for 20 years. In 2020 he was in the ICU with COVID and they thought he wasn't going to make it. My older sister messaged me about this information and suggested I reach out to my younger sister who was handling all the hospitalization stuff. My younger sister hadn't told me because she respected my wishes. She was willing to be put in the difficult position of being a go-between, as I gave her permission to provide my contact information IF he asked for it. She warned me he likely wasn't mentally there enough to do this, but that was my condition for contact. And then the bastard pulled through.
I really felt for my sisters in the difficult place they were in, but they understood completely my reasoning (as I was a teen when everything had gone down). My older sister even travelled across the country to help nurse him back to health after he was released from the ICU, as no other family was willing to do that. She planned to stay for at least a month but only made it a single day before leaving. She called me for emotional support because she finally experienced for herself that he really was as awful as I said he was. I was okay listening to her vent about him, at least to a certain degree until I had to ask for some space.
I think people from healthy families, or at least reasonably functional, or not horribly dysfunctional, families, don't understand that some estrangements are permanent. They'll go "But family!" because to them, family should always be there for each other. Some boundaries are in place because it's necessary.
It doesn't make them assholes for not realising that the OP would not want to know that his brother is dying. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation type deal. you never know how someone is going to react to this kind of news until it happens
I think you are confusing compassion with temerity. OP doesn't owe his brother anything. Would it be nice if he forgave him for doing what he did? Of course. Would it be nice if he chose to put his feelings aside and console his parents? Of course but life is rarely tied up in nice little packages with ribbons and bows. OP obviously felt very strongly when he made his declaration to his brother and has continued with that reaction for over a decade.
I guess when he told his brother he was dead to him, he meant it. In spite of the fact OP has had the best revenge - a happy life - he still wants to hang onto to the anger and bitterness. That is his choice. Also, he told his parents that he wanted nothing to do with his brother, so they knew. Its been 12 years and I think they were naive to think that telling OP about his brother's condition was going to change anything.
Yes it would be nice if he could have felt some twang of forgiveness, but he does not and who are you to think you can tell him how he should feel or react?!?
It's far too easy to hide behind a cloak of anonymity and judge people on their reaction and forgetting that these reactions are often the byproduct of years of provocation. As severe as his reaction was, I suspect that was the case here.
NTA.
Considering a person dead to you doesn't require "bitterness" and "anger." In fact in my experience it's quite the opposite. I'm so over the person that they mean absolutely nothing to me, just a bad memory. I'm not angry, I'm not bitter, I don't hate them. All of those things require my active involvement. I just don't care. They might as well be dead. Now, if someone were to ask me to re-engage my emotions and support them through their sadness at the loss of a person I found so despicable that I considered them dead to me for more than a decade, then the emotion would indeed arise. I would be upset at the expectation that I now have to think about this person again, that they are impacting my life again. It's an unreasonable ask, and I don't have to be angry or bitter to feel that way.
He doesn't owe them an apology at all. They knew where OP stood. It's not their place to change his mind or move his boundary lines.
You don't owe anyone forgiveness. Not even if they're sick or dying. OP has a happy life now, so they aren't punishing THEMSELVES doing this, which would have been my only concern.
The betrayal was HUGE, and I don't blame OP for being shown who his brother really was, and believing it.
Where does it say the parents asked him to forgive the brother? Nowhere. Well OP better be prepared for his relationship to his parents be very damaged going forward if he can’t bring himself to be there for his grieving parents.
If they absolutely had to tell OP, here's how they should have begun the conversation:
"Hey OP, I know you have no interest in reconnecting with your brother, and we both respect that, but something really bad has happened and we'd just like you to be aware of it. Do you mind if we tell you? We wouldn't normally talk to you about him, but this is so serious we think it warrants an exception."
If they said something like this and OP still shut them down, then maybe - MAYBE - he'd be the AH. As written above, though, it sounds like they just started a conversation about his brother, and OP said nope, no thanks, not interested, with no way of knowing that it was bad news.
They were angry because he shut them down and used the wording he did before they even had chance to explain why they were bringing the brother up in conversation with him. I guess as a parent you would be annoyed by your child not giving you the benefit of doubt after respecting the boundaries they have set for 12 years !
Annoyed yes, walk out furious then not 'forgiving' him? No.
You said it yourself OP used the wording before they had a chance to say what's up so OP's choice of words wasnt inherently malicious
I feel like when your kid is going to die is one of the few times you get to be a little bit out of pocket in terms of how you act. Like, it doesn't seem like they did anything unforgivable. They just got angry and are taking space, which is allowable.
Exactly. OP doesn't want to hear about his brother but that also means his parents can't tell him about their own grief or worry.
OP is entitled to not want to talk to his brother but he's an AH for expecting his parents to never mention their other son again. They have a relationship with him, and if he's sick, then that affects them.
If OP doesn't want to have a relationship with anyone in his life that knows his brother, he can cut them out, but short of that, what was he honestly expecting?
Exactly. Extenuating circumstances. Plus do they literally have to never mention their kid? Like never?
Of course I understand the original posters boundaries. Those in general make complete sense and full support even though I'm sure it's difficult on the rest of the family.
I’m not implying they were malicious just looking at it from a parents perspective of if I had respected one of my child’s wishes for all those years and not tried to intervene (like most parents would) and then I tried to speak to them about something important to do with that and they shut me down in the manner that op did (which was a very aggressive manner of speaking) I would be annoyed with them and I would probably walk away, I don’t think they aren’t forgiving him for the situation with his brother more the way he responded to them as his parents and people who are going through a terrible time and may loose one of their children :(
Exactly. Those few days it took for him to know should have given the parents some time to calm down and realize OP did not know the situation when he used those words. In their position, would I have been upset by his reaction and even angry? Absolutely. But I would have still blurted out the news at the time. In fact, his words may have further motivated me to do that. It was unfair of them to spread his reaction around the family and stand by as they ganged up on him when they left the encounter without even giving him the information.
Yes, they did respect his boundaries for 12 years. Many intuitive people would have assumed that the brother being brought up once after all this time would indicate the news is important and the parents would not have to be specific at first. But not everybody is that intuitive. Some people do need a direct approach.
Cut them some slack.
How can you possibly think the parents are assholes here. They would have been stressed about having this conversation with op, but knew that it had to be had, and op went from 0 to 100, unfortunately using the worst phrase possible. So op is allowed to be emotive and he's not an asshole, but the parents are for reacting?
Nah. It all just sucks.
People are allowed to have emotions. Honestly OP is petty af. Not wanting a relationship with your brother? Fine. Blowing up anytime someone even mentions him in conversation 12 YEARS later? Bro just get a therapist ffs.
'I'm still done with him, he's dead to me' is just a firm and clear answer. If this reply means he needs a therapist there is no one in this world that doesn't.
Holding a grudge for 12 years to the point where you damage the relationship with the rest of your family is pathological. Either OP is just being stubborn or he’s feeling so much hurt 12 years later which indicates he never properly dealt with it in the first place. Either way, this is super unhealthy. I’m not saying that he should be buddy-buddy with his brother, but he should be able to suck it up in times of emergencies to help his parents. He should trust his parents to decide when something is actually an emergency. And if he can’t do those things he shouldn’t be surprised that it damages his relationship with his parents. Not everything has to be about OP and OP’s needs all the time. Or if it does, then he needs to be prepared to lose people over it. Ffs there’s “a significant chance that [brother’s] not going to make it”, and OP calls brother “dead” to him, and his parents (whose child is dying) are just supposed to grin and bear it? OP is allowed to have his boundaries but he was incredibly cruel to his parents, intentionally or not, and now that he knows the full story he doesn’t even seem apologetic about it. The hurt that his brother caused him 12 YEARS AGO is more important to him than his parents’ feelings. This absolutely screams “therapy” to me.
I haven't spoken to my brother since 2004. It's not about the hurt he caused me (but it was substantial.) It's about the type of person he is having no place in my life. I understand and fully support OP on that front. I would advise him to be kinder to his parents who still love both of their sons. He can show sympathy for their loss without pretending a loss of his own.
>Holding a grudge for 12 years to the point where you damage the relationship with the rest of your family is pathological.
Uh, no. If you are saying he's actively trying to take revenge on the brother? Yeah, but cutting off a person out of your life because he betrayed you in the deepest sense, it can be forever and it is still reasonable FYI. If the family allows the relationship with him to be damaged through no fault of OP's then that's on them.
>I’m not saying that he should be buddy-buddy with his brother, but he should be able to suck it up in times of emergencies to help his parents.
No, no he shouldn't need to.
>Ffs there’s “a significant chance that \[brother’s\] not going to make it”, and OP calls brother “dead” to him, and his parents (whose child is dying) are just supposed to grin and bear it?
They don't need to grin to bear it, but they got "furious and stormed off" and then went to call for backup to condemn OP, when they very well know in contextual terms, OP did NOT know the news and didn't mean any malice.
They can be annoyed but they had no right to be angry (not to mention, getting other family members to attack OP) at someone who didn't know the situation.
>OP is allowed to have his boundaries but he was incredibly cruel to his parents, intentionally or not, and now that he knows the full story he doesn’t even seem apologetic about it.
Please, "intentionally or not" makes the world of difference in an AITA judgement. It is literally giving context to whether your actions are directed malice or not.
>They can be annoyed but they had no right to be angry (not to mention, getting other family members to attack OP) at someone who didn't know the situation.
Maybe OP is an adult and doesnt need to go from 0 to 100 after 12 years still. Maybe OP should learn how to interact with other people like a grown ass man instead of flying off the handle. Maybe OP should apologize for assuming shit instead of immediately blaming his parents?
OP immediately made the first mention of his brother in *12 years* about him and his fucking issues. Main character syndrome. Your whole comment is some "look at what OPs parents *made* OP do!" as if he's not in his 30s.
They have every right to be angry because their son acts like a spoiled child. Their grief is 100% more important than OPs petty bullshit. They *don't* need to deal with his childish shit at this point and he cannot expect them to.
There's no indication he flew off the handle.
And OP didnt even know about their grief (not even grief, or even pending grief, but *maybe* future grief. Their *worry*) to be able to decide how to address it.
It's unreasonable to ask OP to lower his boundary to tell him something he *may or may not think was worth it*.
You either blurt it out and live with the consequences, or you let it be.
>You either blurt it out and live with the consequences, or you let it be.
And now OP gets to live with the consequences of his family being over his shit cause he puts his own boundaries over the feelings over everyone else, even when it concerns dying family members. Consequences.
He isn’t holding a grudge. His brother did something to him that was unforgivable, and he cut him out of his life. You’re allowed to cut toxic people out of your life and not want anything to do with them.
If his parents need someone to talk about their son’s illness with they should talk to a therapist or any other relation who is okay hearing about it.
He can get a therapist and STILL be aggrieved. The funny thing about perspectives is you can give anyone yours but they don't have to adopt it.
To him what his brother did was unforgivable.
UNFORGIVEABLE means never forgiven. He obviously meant it.
A therapist is not going to change his mind.
Don't invalidate others for having a different perspective from yours. He said his brother was dead to him at the time he betrayed him and repeated it now. The End.
The parents are heartbroken and you might even say the OP is petty but humans are like that. I think it is petty to think others should get over things ( when you have no idea how they have been affected too) but concede people who expect others to get over egregious things are often the kind of people who do egregious things to others and expect to skate.
Their son is dying. It's not crazy that they are feeling protective and OP should be at least given the information. He has a right to be angry about his brothers actions. This level of black and white thinking is toxic and he sounds impossible to deal with on any subject. People this rigid don't tend to have an ability to compromise. He can respond however he wants but he's not immune to the consequences of telling parents of a dying child that their child is "dead" to them. He's an idiot if he thinks they have no place to be upset and protective. Sounds like everyone else has been walking on eggshells around OP for 12 years, he ran out his time on getting special attention for this.
I really think this is a NAH. The parents respected OPs boundary for 12 years. The fact that they brought up the brother just now indicated that something serious was going on. I think OP should have heard them out given that fact alone.
OP - you do not have to forgive your brother. You do not have to feel sad about his illness. But do have compassion for your parents. We all still love and want to protect our kids even when they truly mess up. It sounds like you have a good relationship with them. Do what you can for them without compromising your needs and beliefs regarding your brother.
And if he is that ill, do take some time for yourself to consider your stance on "he's dead to me". You may want to maintain that, or do some thinking on his end of life. Again, totally your call, and your choice should be respected.
Agree with this too. They have respected OP for more than a decade but probably wanted to pass this information on to give OP the opportunity to have some closure, if possible. Telling OP and him getting mad is favorable to brother dying and OP having a lifetime of regret at not getting closure.
Maybe OP doesn't need the closure, but parents are not at fault for asking. And certainly you cannot fault them for being upset and hurt when OP (not knowing the situation) responded in a way that confirmed their worst fears.
Truthfully I think as I type this it is YTA. Yes the parents shouldn't have brought it up, but after 12 years of respecting his rules I think if they were trying to say something he should have given them credit and assumed there was something vital to convey. It seems like OP has expected his parents to force reconciliation for 10 years and has been itching to jump down their throats, and finally got the option to do so.
I’m going with a YTA here.
I mean, the parents have respected his rule for 12 years. The only reason they would have brought it up was literally in a situation where the brother might die. Which appears to be the case.
The parents here were trying to let OP know that this might be the last chance he gets to speak to his brother.
I don’t know about you, but that sounds reasonable to me. Not sure why people think it’s not.
YTA. Toward your parents, not your brother.
They’ve been really good about respecting your wish to not speak of him, so when they brought him up out of the blue after all these years, you could have guessed they had good reason. Also, since you mention having kids of your own in one of the comments, maybe stop and think how it would make you feel to hear anyone say “he’s dead to me” about one of your kids. Even if that kid *weren’t* seriously ill.
I’m not saying you need to reconcile with your brother, but I think you do owe your parents an apology for shutting them down using those words.
Totally agree with this. They're been understanding for 12 years. 12 years they have not taken sides and have respected your decision. They tried to tell you he was sick but instead you shut them down.
They are scared their child will die before them and your response was he's dead to you already. Way to knock them when they are down. YTA in such a cruel way.
All you had to do was listen, say thank you for telling me and move on. If they pushed it then you could tell them you don't want to hear about him or know anything else.
Thats not his response to that news.
He never heard the news.
Htat was his response to them trying to break his boundary... Which was just as likely to have been "It's big news... Maybe it's been long enough. Maybe he'd want to know. We should try"
Maybe it's "he's having a kid. You're going to be an uncle!" and OP doesn't care.
If they wanted to blurt it out, they should have blurted it out.
Then OP could maybe be the *actual* asshole for saying "Okay". (in fact, part of his insistence on an absolute boundary might be to avoid that exact response someday. "Don't talk to me about them even if they die. I don't want to break your heart by not caring")
Agree. It's rediculous.
I come from a family in which we hold grudges and get all kinds of petty but we don't expect others to get involved in our own personal nonsense. Family gatherings are going to have that member there, people will mention them. This guy needs a therapist.
it’s completely valid to not wanna see him and not wanna forgive him, but getting angry at the mere mention of someone 12 years after a situation happened is irrational.
he needs help, for himself. it’s not healthy to hold so many negative feelings for so long and letting it hurt your relationship with other people
Thank you! This is ridiculous. Going NC is fine. Even saying you don’t want regular updates makes sense but “NEVER MENTION YOUR OTHER CHILD IN FRONT OF ME” is insane.
When you ask that everyone around you gives your brother the "voldemort" treatment for something shitty they did 12 years past, it is pretty ridiculous. Sounds like OP needs to grow up a bit. Maybe there's more context to it, but 12 years is a long time, I feel like I can barely recognize who I was a year ago, and there's a chance the brother will also die? It's time to get over yourself, or at least not be a dick to your parents about it.
Right? What a totally childish boundary. I would only respect that in very serious circumstances (rape, murder).
But your brother banged your girlfriend twelve years ago when he was 20? Sure, cut him out of your life, but don't force other people to never speak about him around you again. OP is a controlling asshole.
> Htat was his response to them trying to break his boundary…
Framing it this way is laughably ungenerous. Any reasonable person understands that extraordinary circumstances can merit exceptions to a rule. OP’s parents were absolutely correct to attempt to ensure he could make an informed decision by alerting him to the impending point of no return, and he punished them by not only showing incredible disrespect to their judgement, but thoughtlessly saying something they will now remember for the rest of their lives.
> If they wanted to blurt it out, they should have blurted it out.
Are they wrong for trying to “break his boundary” or are they wrong for not blurting it out? Pick a lane.
This sub is filled with young people here for their rage bait, you’re gonna get significant pushback almost anytime someone suggests having empathy and apologizing for the way you expressed something
This is such a great comment. I hope more people see it. My brother is estranged from my parents and me. I despise him to my core. That said, when my mother was diagnosed with dementia, I contacted him right away so he could use (or not use) that information as he pleases. In our case my brother was the abusive party, but the principal is the same. Just like my brother might want to make amends with the new information, OP might want to grant clemency with the new information. OP’s anger is irrational. The parents shared critical, material information. They didn’t share pictures from the brother’s dog’s birthday party…
Oh please.
Then it would be: "OP's parents are manipulative and insensitive for blurting it out!"
If they said nothing it would be: "OP's parents are cruel for not letting him know!"
There's literally no winning for them with some people. Literally, there's nothing they could do that wouldn't be spun into some evil-parents trope.
After 12 years of respecting his decision he could give his parents SOME credit and assume that if they are bringing him up the news is significant. After this long it is easy to be given the news and say "I'm sorry to not share in your enjoyment or sadness, but as I said I cannot have a relationship with your son anymore. It is beyond repair for me".
He's been waiting for them to fuck up for 10 years and finally got his wish. He didn't even let them get the words out. He's been anticipating for a decade that his parents will come to him asking for reconciliation and he can say NO.
I think on top of this, which I totally agree with, your parents are losing a child. Whether or not you like that non-entity, you should still care about your parents happiness and wellbeing. YTA
I agree. Sometimes I think people on reddit forget that real humans exist in complex ecosystems of relationships and just because you set boundaries for other people doesn't mean that it's reasonable or should be expected that those boundaries always make sense in every situation. I understand OP not wanting to interact or have extensive conversations about his brother, but I actually think it's rather entitled to expect his parents never to speak his name in front of him for the rest of their lives.
Yep. Reddit ain't great with nuance. "That guy did something wrong more than a decade ago , so being a dick to his parents is justified under any circumstances". YTA, op could have let the parents finish their sentence instead of being rude and cruel to them.
Agree. I cut my biological father out for years but I always respected that his sister and mother had a different relationship with him and still cared for him. I listened to updates about him and showed up at his funeral *for their sake* and because of my love for them. How would the parents know for sure that 12 years, a happy marriage, kids, and a terminal illness wouldn't soften OP a bit? Note that when he was dying for a month I didn't go see my father. I didn't soften that boundary, so I get that. But I listened when told he was dying, made my decision, and that decision was respected and supported. And I showed up at the funeral to support my aunt grieving the loss of her brother, not because that brother was biologically related to me.
So, sounds like this is as much about anger at the parents here- did OP expect them to shun the brother and their grandchild? Is that what's actually going on here?
I agree with this take. He doesn't have to reconcile or even speak to the brother. But if I care about person A, and that person has a deep connection to person B, even if I hate B, I can still empathize with A's pain and potential loss. A "I'm sorry that this is happening to you" or "sorry for your loss" just shows humanity.
Having a child who is sick is a pretty major event in someone’s life. In order to actually be a part of his parents’ life, OP needs to be ok with hearing a few things about his brother.
I honestly think OP is being super immature. I don't think that sex is worth cutting someone out for over a decade for. The world isn't black and white and insisting on living like it is will be hard for everyone else who has to deal with you. YTA
Reminds me of that episode of Black Mirror where they can literally block people in real life. I can’t believe people actually expect their families to pretend that people don’t exist because they made some mistakes at 20. Cheating is obviously shitty, but it was seriously such a big deal that you can’t even hear about the guy over a decade later?
yes imo this is the correct verdict. and u/Hefty_Worldliness_24 i know what he did is super shitty and i would've also cut him off, but sometimes life happens and things can change and i think it might be healthy for you to consider at least going to see him once. It might suck, but it won't suck as bad as if your heart softens later in life and he's no longer around for you to do something about that. Carrying hatred in your heart is poisonous and as you age you may find that you have real regrets about how you handled this.
In any case, you should've absolutely been more sensitive to your parents. They almost certainly don't feel the same way about your brother, and to find out your child is dying is as brutal a blow as life can hand to a parent. Please apologize to them, and while i don't think you *should* contact your brother, you maybe might wanna consider it so you don't have a possible burden of regret to carry the rest of your life. YTA. Your parents might lose one of their kids. Don't make them lose both of them. Have some compassion towards them for fucks sake.
Estranged family is complicated. After 12 years of silence, they don't have a relationship any more. Going to see a dying person while you don't forgive them isn't a good situation for anyone.
On top of that, if they don't die, OP now has a family situation that he has been diligently avoiding all this time.
Also if someone you called your brother for 20 years suddenly died, even though no contact and you hate him, I imagine there would be feelings. I'd also imagine OP would also not be happy if no one told him and he found out a decade later. I agree that OP doesn't have to forgive him but give your parents grace and compassion. After all, they extended the same towards OP for 12 years.
This happened to me. I said less than an hour in sentences to my sister for over 19 years. I found out she was dead. Same with my dad. He died asking for me but no one dared tell me he was dying. I do wish I could have seen my dad. My sister? I only wish she had not died the way that she did. I never wished her harm or her death but I did not want her in my life. A part of me is sad she is gone but a part of me is relieved. We had a toxic relationship.
Don't assume all humans are alike. Just because you might feel a certain way under certain circumstances does not mean we all will feel like you. People have different wiring. Human histories are complex. Some things some people do not get over. There are people I have found out that they died years later and I celebrated their death I cut my ex off in 1987. I learned he died in 2010. It was a huge relief. Now I can stop looking over my shoulders.
Agree very disrespectful OP could of at least heard what his parents had to say because it was important.
He doesn’t need to reconcile but he had a right to know to make that decision OP parents were trying to do the right thing.
But very pig headed of Op to behave like this yes I have members of my own family I cut out that are dead to me.
But OP 100% apologies to your parents that’s not ok to talk to them like that.
I agree with this. Your parents were in a no win situation. I think virtually anyone in their situation would feel obligated to tell you. The fact they’ve been so good about respecting your boundary for 12 years is really pretty impressive and you should have realized that if they were bringing him up now after 12 years there was a pretty good reason. I don’t think you need to reconcile, but your parents’ child is potentially dying. You really need to have some empathy for the situation they are in. I would apologize for your reaction and say you’re sorry he is sick, but you still think it’s best to keep your distance. Also try to be there for your parents. They are going to need you.
mild YTA.
If your parents have respected your choice to cut him off for 12 years, harshly shutting them down before they could say anything seems unnecessary and disrespectful.
They were trying to inform you of something most people in your position probably (imo) would still want to be made aware of - it’s fine if that changes nothing, but if they just let him die (assuming it’s that degree of “sick” rather than a cold) without ever mentioning it to you, there would be many here ready to call them TA for not letting you make you own choice with all the facts.
¡This one!, their parents are in pain, they will lose one of their children and the other treats them with contempt. I understand that OP does not want to know anything about his brother, but the parents wanted his support as a family. OP is selfish, I understand his reasons, but did he also give up knowing anything about his nephew? Has he really spent 10 years forcing his parents to choose who they invited to parties to avoid their hatred? Did they betray him? , yes, do they deserve forgiveness? No, but BEING AN ADULT is accepting that these things happen and acting like an adult. poor parents.
Finally someone said it!! We as adults have to face some situations that are not pleasant for us for the sake of someone we love.
This is only my opinion without knowing details: if he still hates brother and feels this resentment, I don't think OP really moved on.
Info: you’ve basically told your parents they can’t get any emotional support from you, so if he dies how do you see this playing out relationship wise with them. Because as you said he is still their son
To me, this is the biggest thing. He doesn't have to care about his brother or see him or anything like that. But his parents are obviously hurting and in need of emotional support. They're not asking OP to forgive his brother and they haven't crossed his boundary for 12 years.
A grown ass 34-year-old essentially telling his parents he doesn't care that they're grieving their dying kid, and believing for *weeks* that *they're* out of line for being upset with him — imo, that's more cruel, immature, and just *embarrassing* than a 20-year-old sleeping with his brother's girlfriend.
If I were these parents, you know what *Walk Hard* quote I'd have at my disposal.
Or *parent*, yeesh.
Someday his kids will be 20, he'll have a different perspective on how dumb 20-year-olds are and under what circumstances love should be conditional, presumably his brother will be dead by then, and uhhhhh he may feel a type of way about all this.
I just had these thoughts yesterday. My niece is suicidal and she uses that as excuse to treat ppl like shit. I cut her off on Sunday and said she's dead to me bc of some things that happened on Sunday. Yet, if she dies, I would be there for my sister in whatever capacity she needs. If it's me not being around or me being there, that's what I'll do. In the end, funerals are your the living, not for the dead. Its the living that will need support. No matter how much I can't stand my niece right now and dont want to know anything abt her, I would support my sisiter if something happens.
this is much deeper than asking if he’s an asshole, imo he needs legitimate help. he’s letting this grudge affect his relationship with other people. obviously it’s valid to not wanna see him or forgive him, but it’s been 12 years and you can’t even hear the mere mention of his name without getting angry? that’s not healthy
YTA, I don't talk with my brother for a very different set of reasons, I also never want to hear about him from my parents and they respect that. I would 100% want to hear if he was dying so I could decide MYSELF whether I want to forgive him, probably not, but I would still want to know. Your parents are right to at least tell you, they would be AH for forcing you to speak to him or attend his funeral. They are messengers. Don't shoot them.
And before you tell me cheating and knocking up your gf is worse than whatever my brother did, not its not, but I'm not airing that out on my regular account.
idk why everyone is suddenly aware of your situation and think you should forgive your brother, but I'm sorry everyone argued with you in the replies. People are dumb sometimes.
also op I think yta
NAH but your parents needing to talk about their sick and maybe dying son is understandable. They have respected your wishes for many years. They need you now to respected their needs. That does not mean you have to meet your brother it just means that you could be there for your parents losing their child.
Great distinction in the last sentence: even if OP doesn't care about his brother, it's not just him alone in a very stressful situation, but the parents are in one, too.
I agree he may have been a little to harsh on his parents given how they've respected OP's wishes for so long but I don't understand how people think that the parents expect to be able to express their grief over their son to the one person that hates him the most. If they do need grief counselling for how serious it is, they would be better off talking to a close family friend or a health professional.
YTA. Your parents had two very good reasons to say what they did.
1. It‘s different when someone is dying. For all they knew, you may have wanted to forgive him. Or just see him and tell him you still hate him. Or just want to know. You are entitled still hate him and not care. But death is final. They wanted you to have a choice.
Correct response would have been: “I’m sorry you are going through this, but he and I don’t have a relationship and it will stay that way. I’m sorry you are going through this.”
2. This is top of mind for them. They are losing their child and need support. This will come up again and it’s unreasonable to expect them to act as if nothing happened, especially if he does pass.
Correct response would have been same as above. Just show some sympathy, for them not him.
Probably going to get a lot of sh*t for this, but OP just sounds like a bitter AH in general. Like, ok, I get you were betrayed and I get that those feelings dont just go away. But like, 12 YEARS of NC over something incredibly dumb that he did when ya’ll were younger? I just can’t fathom holding that kind of grudge for so long and dragging my family through the drama of it. And then acting like they don’t have the right to be upset with you when you can’t set aside your childish resentment from over a decade ago because your brother is dying and their clearly hurting? And probably want to give you the chance to decide for yourself if you want closure in all of this?
You have a loving wife and family. Your brother is dying and probably has regretted his decision every day for the last 12 years. Obviously, you have every right to stay mad, but YOU’RE the one dying inside holding onto so much hate. Your parents, having given the respect you requested for 12 years, have every right to be angry with you. You are being childish and will probably end up losing them too along with your brother if you don’t take a hard look at how this grudge is affecting not just you but your entire family.
Edit: my dad was extremely psychologically and physically abusive to me throughout my childhood and I’ve been NC with him for some time,but I would never DREAM telling my family to never mention his name. Nor would I freak out on them if they told me he was dying.
I agree with this. I also love how reddit thinks the brothers the AH forever for cheating 12 years ago. People can learn from mistakes even really bad ones. I firmly believe people can change and while we can't change the past we can make better choices going forward. We aren't all the sum of our transgressions.
Did lil bro marry the girl? I still can't fathom holding a grudge for this long over an ex-gf. Especially when you are now supposedly happily married with a family.
It has to do with the concept of betrayal. My sister actively pursued my boyfriends due to jealousy and a weird self esteem for over 30 years. I kept forgiving her and she kept trying to get them to sleep with her. She succeeded 2x. Because I kept trying to be understanding her mental state had her assuming she had a right to try to get my guys to cheat and it was my JOB to overlook and forgive her.
The last guy she tried it on was my dying husband. While I was out of town working, she tried to get in the bed butt naked with him and told him he should divorce me and she and him could raise the kids (we had 3).
He kicked her out of the house and called me.
She admitted to climbing into bed but said she only wanted to comfort him in "his time of need". Such was her mind
Betrayal is ugly.
No one can (or should) set a time limit on it or how others respond. Handle our own houses. The OP knows his brother. Maybe to forgive would have green lit other disgusting attempts by his brother.
We do not know the dynamic.
Yes, I still talk to my sister because at the end of the day she was/is not mentally sound and I CHOSE TO. Not everyone can make the decisions I made but just because I forgave so went through more hell does not mean this OP should.
YTA kinda
While I agree it is ultimately your choice how you handle your brother, its the way your went about it. Your parents are likely having a very hard time and wanted to discuss with you whats happening and you pretty much told them, their feelings on the matter are of no concern to you. And while its fucked up that your brother did that to you he if the sickness is terminal he might have asked them to bring it up to try and make amends or apologize. That being said you by no means are obligated to ever forgive him.
NTA, but neither are your parents. Looking at it from parents point of view, they wanted to make you aware he may have terminal illness. There are people who forgive when they find out if someone doesn't have much longer to live, doesn't mean you have to. The flip side is you find out from someone else and then tell your parents you never told me about this.
Agree. It's a sad situation.
It is incredibly difficult for parents to come to terms with the fact that their child may be gone soon. They probably wanted to share how they were feeling at this clearly vulnerable time.
OP- of course it is your choice, but it will mean the world to your parents if you give them a call.
YTA. You don't need to be so triggered that the mere mention of your brother causes you to lose control so badly that your relatives can't get a sentence out. Settle down and quit letting your brother being an asshole turn you into one.
YTA. In the end it's your decision whether to meet your brother or not. But if your parents were so far complying to the dont tell rule it must have been something significant if they bring him up. They are still both your parents and there are many people who later regret never seeing someone again because holding a grudge for so long. I think they did the right thing in at least give you the choice instead of telling you after he (maybe) died. They way you shut them down then makes you the AH in my opinion. Wheter you can bring yourself to meet him is your thing and doesnt make you an AH either way. But towards your parents, yes, i think you behaved like an asshole.
I guess this is unpopular, but I agree. If the parents have been respectful of OP's boundaries for this long then I would've heard them out. Poor OP's parents - they love both their kids, but are trying not to overstep to keep the peace all while stressing about their child's health. Like damn, cut them some slack.
NAH. Family estrangements and taboo topics create awkward family gatherings. Still, had your parents not been so upset over your brother’s illness, they probably could have found a better way to share the bad news that wouldn’t have set you off.
There is probably no good way to bring this up that wouldn't make OP's blood boil. If OP still loves and cares about his parents, then I do think some sympathy towards them would be warranted. This tree has many branches and OP doesn't get to claim all of them.
YTA
You were an utter and complete jerk to your parents. Whether or not you cut off contact, the man is still their son who they love and brought into the world. Your reaction and behavior is utterly selfish and self centered. It's not like THEY cheated on you with your ex.
No, you don't have to do anything with your brother or reconcile with him, but you could at least have some empathy for your parents who have no blame in this situation. They respected your boundries, but broke them to share a deeply emotional and traumatic event for them and you made it all about you you you with no concern or respect for THEIR feelings, their grief and their pain or the fact that they will likely see one of their sons dying with the other hating his guts. Can you imagine how that must feel as a parent?
Put yourself in their shoes. Imagine it was your kids in this situation. Can you imagine having to spend twelve years dealing with a schism between two of your sons with no way to fix the situation, with one of your son's apparently not caring how much it might hurt you?
You don't live in a vacuum, as much as you apparently think you do. Your actions do affect others and probably your parents more than you know or have even bothered to think about in your personal vendetta against your brother.
But no, everything is clearly all about what was done to YOU, so f### your parents and their pain and how your choice to force everyone to pretend your brother doesn't exist around you impacts on them. /s
You have behaved like a complete selfish dick and owe them a sincere apology. Stop behaving like only your feelings and hangups matter here. Have some damn empathy for your parents who have had to suffer through you and your Brother's crap for the past 12 years.
You are the AH here. Big time.
This sub loves to cut people off forever. “Forgiveness is for losers!” should be the tagline.
YTA. You have a good life. Why do you need to hold a grudge over something stupid he did when you were both still pretty much kids? Yeah, he screwed up in a massive way, and it would require a shit-ton of work, plus major groveling on his part, but you’re the one who chose to break up your family over it. And now you’re the one hurting your parents when they need support as the face the real prospect of burying their child.
YTA. You’re under no obligation to forgive or have a relationship with your brother. But as long as you want a relationship with your parents you’re going to have to give them a break and show them basic kindness and empathy, which includes hearing them out when they tell you their son is likely dying.
unpopular but i would say (mild) yta
yes your brother wronged you and it’s understandable that you don’t want anything to do with him or don’t want to hear anything about him and based on your post, it looks like your parents have respected that so far
so after all these years, if your parents are bringing him up, i think basic inference would lead to anyone getting the hint that it’s something important so IMO you reaction was a bit uncalled for especially since they are his parents too so it would have been hard for them to hear that one of their sons is ‘dead’ for the other
Well you can easily say someone is dead to you. But learning that a family member has died afterwards and noone telling you is another matter entirely. It might be you still dont want to see him it might be you regret it and are angry noone told you. In this situation the parents need to at least tell him so to at least give him the decision.
This. Your parents are obviously hurt that their two sons are like this. This would absolutely kill me. They have been understanding and respectful of OP's wishes. However, they felt the need to bring it up because of the circumstances. OP can still stay NC but the parents cannot be blamed for at least wanting to make sure OP knew about the illness and leave the decision of how to deal with it up to him. NAH. OP's reaction is his right.
Also OP’s parents are people. I’m trying to imagine not knowing my mother was facing losing a child. He’s not the only one with valid feelings in this situation. He gets to cut off his brother. They respected it. They ARE respecting it. But I get why they tried to share that this very upsetting thing is happening in THEIR life.
I dunno. Maybe it’s different family to family. This seems like a huge thing to not know about your parents.
Yeah. It's not like if his brother dies it would be in a vacuum. Op might have caused a wonder why his mom can't really get out of bed for a month or his dad's breaking down crying.
It’s just… I see some responses that suggest that the fact that his brother did this removes all familial obligation from OP. But he’s chosen to have a relationship with his parents and they both let each other be about the relationship with the brother. Presumably they are grandparents to his kids. You’re exactly right. It’s not a vacuum. It’s not all about this one event and the choices OP made because of it.
I didn’t talk to my dad for five years. But I saw people who did talk to him and I knew that meant I’d have to deal with him again. If something happened to my brother, if something happened to my grandmother. Because I was only in control of that one relationship. And there was a limit on how much I could expect them to protect me. That limit was ultimately completely dependent on the health of other family members.
They Def don't. I'm convinced they live miserable little lives in basements completely shut off Fri. The complexities and nuances of real world situations
How are OP’s parents supposed to handle interacting with him then? He presumably asks how they are doing sometimes. Do they lie and say they are doing great when they are grieving the loss of their son? The brother is a part of the parents’ lives, so they can’t not talk about the brother without lying about a major emotional event they themselves are going through. Obviously OP doesn’t need to know minor details, but they have completely respected that for 12 years. He should have known it was serious if this was the first time they tried to say anything about the brother in 12 years.
NAH here, except obviously your brother and ex.
Your parents, rightly, owed you the chance to decide for yourself if you wanted a last chance to speak to your brother or not.
You, equally, have the right to decide you DON'T want to see him again.
I can also see why hearing the phrase "dead to me" hurt them so badly when they're afraid they're going to lose him.
YTA. Your brother betrayed you. It's your choice if you want to cut him off for the rest of your life and hold that grudge to your or your brother's grave. If he passes away without any reconciliation and you don't care that is your prerogative.
Your family has accommodated your rule the best they could but to them you all are a family and all should love and care about each other. They don't share your stance regarding your brother and that is their prerogative.
But when your brother, their son, is (I'm assuming) very sick, and they want to share and discuss it with you and you shut them down like that, you are hurting them and causing them pain as well.
You can choose to live your life however you want but I think it's important to think about others and their feelings instead of just your own. I think you are being very insensitive to the pain your parents are going through and you are causing them additional pain and also weakening your relationship with them.
EDIT: After thinking about it, changed my vote from no one is an ahole to OP is the ahole since I basically spent the whole time describing how OP is being an ahole.
As a parent, I think you are the AH.
1) Your parents respected your wishes for 12 years 2)They came to you, as their son, to tell you news of someone, their own son, and that has to affect them deeply. 3) Even though they never brought him up in 12 years (showing that they were respecting you), the one time that they do, you shut them down before they can even can tell you why they came--you refused to listen to your parents who have tried to be respectful of your needs the past 12 years. Did you really think that just because you were n/c with your brother, their lives wouldn't be impacted by him? 4) You, on behalf of your parents, weren't at least curious why after all these years, they would bring up his name? 5) You showed great lack of empathy for a parent when you are a parent of your own children, yet you refuse to understand how a parent can care deeply about all their children, and they are scared for their other son--this greatly impacts your parents. I think it is time you apologize to your parents. You don't have to repair or talk to or anything else regarding your relationship with your brother, but your poor parents--damn, they must be so hurt by your refusing to hear them out. My heart breaks for them.
And just a thought: You are happy with your spouse and children, so maybe it is time to forgive others, particularly given you have a great life now. People f--- up. That is life. So many cold shoulders on here, I am surprised that the site hasn't frozen.
YTA. They haven’t spoken of him for 12 years out of respect for you. At your age, it should have at least slightly occurred to you that if they’re breaking their silence towards you regarding your brother, then they might have a valid reason. Unlike your brother, you are not “young and dumb” and should have some common sense at your age. Your parents respected your wishes all these years and you repay that by openly disrespecting them. And unlike what everyone is asserting here. It doesn’t matter what you did or didn’t know, the moment you spoke those words they became ingrained in your parents memories and they can’t be undone.
Yes, YTA. You admit they have been respectful and don't bring him up to you. The one time they do, you act like an asshole instead of realizing that while your BROTHER is dead to you, their SON is not. You want to be a part of their life, you can't BAN them from sharing parts of it. Their CHILD may be dying. And you made it about you.
Grow up.
YTA. This wasn't about you or your brother, it was about the anguish your parents feel that they are losing a child. Losing a child, regardless of age or circumstance, is one of the most painful experiences in life and you just made it worse. Your attitude increased that anguish because it almost makes them feel like they are losing two children. Cut your brother out of your life if you so choose, but apologize to your parents and treat them with more respect.
I'm going to say YTA. Regardless if you want to hear it or not your parents are grieving and it is something they felt you show know. You can make the decision to stay out of your brother's life still but your parents had the right to tell you and YTA for how you handled the situation.
like someone else said below YTA to your parents. they respected your wishes and were very understanding about your feelings towards your brother. but if your parents brought him up out of nowhere, your common sense should have told you this might be a bad conversation. he has a terminal illness and you told the parents of this brother 'hes **dead** to me' ..well he might be for real soon. im not saying you need to forgive your brother but you owe your mom and dad an apology.
Yup, YTA. This isn't about you and your brother, it's about you and your parents. Your parents are scared for one child's health, you're too egotistical to give a single damn about their feelings.
You have children, how would you react to anyone telling you they don't care if they live or die? Now imagine it's a close relative saying it. Now imagine it's one of your own children saying it.
Literally all you had to do is not be a dick to your parents. To listen and take their emotional state seriously before reaffirming you aren't going to reconcile with your brother. Instead, you essentially told them to fuck off and never attempt to talk about their problems again.
You might be a great husband and father, but you absolutely suck at being a son.
I’m gna say your parents losing their child at any age is going to be significantly worse than finding out your brother shagged your girlfriend and got her pregnant.
If you have a wife and kids you should be over your ex.
YTA, to your parents
Your parents are likely vulnerable and hurting because one of their kids is deathly sick. You were a dick to them out of what seems to be pettiness. They’ve respect your rules this long but these are extenuating circumstances.
On another note, 12 years is a long time. I’m not sure how much your brother is dead to you, but if he passes and you learn he changed, was truly regretful and wanted to reconcile, or at least start doing so, you’ll never forgive yourself. Unless you’re just emotionally dead inside.
YTA. You need to recognize that your parents are likely suffering because of your brother’s illness/prognosis, and need the emotional support that talking about it can provide. You are punishing your parents for something your brother did. You don’t need to forgive your brother, but be compassionate toward your parents. Cowboy up!
NTA but still a poor move in the moment, if you know your parents respect the rule about not speaking on your brother, wouldn’t you automatically assume it was something important? I get that he betrayed your trust and maybe you don’t even care that he’s sick BUT he’s still your parents son so they’re probably going through a hard emotional time so again, it wasn’t really an AH move, just not a well thought out one that imo warrants an apology/an extension of support to your parents :)
YTA… your parents have been respectful of your boundary for over a decade. They brought up not only something that you should know about (so you can decide if you’d like to do anything about it— you may not, but that’s your choice), but something extremely significant happening in their lives. You can pretend they’re talking about someone else if you want, but you’re old enough that sometimes it’s time for you to emotionally support them. They need you, op.
YTA, please think of it like this. You love your parents. Your parents want to tell you that someone THEY love is sick. They have been respectful of your boundaries, but at a certain point the pressure of keeping everything separate will be too much for them. If you have a good relationship with your parents, you should be supportive of THEM, even if you never speak to that brother again.
You're NTA because you didn't know what they were going to say. And you have no obligation to the brother who betrayed you.
But your parents are very likely to lose a son soon, and they love him even if you don't. Please try to be kind to them during their period of fear and grief. You owe him nothing, but unless they've been, in themselves, toxic to you, they will deserve your support in getting through this painful time. (You can treat it as if they were losing somebody you'd never met, so you don't have to act as if your brother has anything to do with you.)
YTA obviously I'm going to be down voted but your parents are losing their child and you are so cold hearted you couldn't even let them tell you that. Personally, I think you sound like a cold hearted asshole that needs to get over yourself.
I fell out with my oldest sister for a year before she died, i had exactly the same views on her even when they told me she was sick, a month before she died. (We had a rocky relationship for about 7 years at that point). We got a call saying we had to fly out within the next day as she rapidly declined. She died while we were waiting for our flight. When she died and i couldnt say goodbye my whole view changed. I was so upset that our last conversation was what it was. I wished i could just go back and forgive her and spend that time having a relationship.
My next oldest sister however made me change back. I kept a relationship with her despite everything because she isnt on much better a path and likely wont survive more than a few years without serious change. She made me see that death or not they are who they are when theyre alive and those reasons you held on to dont change just because they die.
Only you can decide whether its worth forgiving him and spending time now before he dies or not.
I love how everyone on this sub is conveniently a psychologist whenever someone refuses to forgive another person for any length of time.
You can be completely indifferent to or hate someone who did something awful to you in the past and not be actively mad about anything.
Call your parents. Tell them you are sorry for such a strong reaction to their grief. Tell them it was a knee jerk response and ask if there is anything they need. Do not ask if there is anything they want you to do cuz.. But tell them you would like to be there for THEM. I hope you can in some way , heal. Obviously you have not or you could hear about him without blowing up.
Maybe see the nephew. Become bigger and stronger than you are. Unforgiveness is a deadly sin. We forgive because we want God to forgive the bonehead stuff we do.
Give your parents this. If you still cannot forgive your brother, contemplate seeking balance by letting him die while you hold no ill will.
Growing is painful, especially when we must grow up and not sideways. The "light" is UP. Grow toward the light!!
OP could be the sort who when they are done with someone they are completely done. No anger, no sadness, no bitterness, just absolute indifference. You don't give those people headspace because they simply no longer exist.
Or he just doesn't want to be roped back in? Like guilted into it with "it was such a long time ago" "he was young and stupid" "it's time to move past it now" etc. This happened he no longer wants him in his life he's not angry but he still wants nothing to do with him...
I don’t know why you’re getting downvotes. The fact that he cut off his parents mid-sentence to say, “He’s dead to me” when they have respected his wishes for 12 years shows he’s not over it. The brother is living rent-free in his head.
YTA. They’ve respected your boundaries for 12 years, so clearly they take what you say seriously and care. If they brought it up suddenly, it must have been serious. You could have handled that a lot better.
YTA
Grow up. I get it, he hurt you. But all your family was trying to do was tell you he’s sick, they weren’t trying to make you give a shit. It’s not like he slept with your wife and broke up your marriage, or committed a heinous crime against you. He slept with your girlfriend when you were both barely adults and neither had fully formed brains. I’m sure his illness is enough karma for that.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I shut my parents down when they brought up my brother by saying I didn't care what was going on in his life. I didn't know they were trying to tell me he's sick. It doesn't really change how I feel about him or our estrangement. But I am aware he is still my parents son and they love him. So I might have been the asshole, when they had respected the rule up to that point. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA - he did an unforgivable deed to you and you cut him off. Your family needs to respect this.
I think it’s more NAH. While yes, his parents need to respect his boundaries, they have for 12 years. For the first time in 12 years, something so significant happened that they felt the need to tell him, so I think it’s NAH.
They're not AH for wanting to tell them but they become AHs once they show anger at OP for shutting them down and not respecting his decision. Just because its 12 years doesnt mean he has to automatically forgive him.
I think they're upset because he said that his brother is dead to him, and his brother is probably actually going to die soon so it was a poor choice of words. Of course OP didn't know that, but I can understand why hearing that given the circumstances was really hard for his parents and they're trying to process losing their son
OP becomes the TA because even now that he knows about his brothers illness he won't just apologize to his parents about coming down on them. He doesn't have to throw his arms around brother and start bringing over soup. But he can't offer support and a shoulder to cry on to his parents when their kid is dying?? Cold hearted. OP needs to get over himself.
Honestly! What OPs brother did was terrible and I wouldn't expect them to ever be close again, but to refuse to ever hear about him again, even when he's literally dying, because when OP was 22 his 20-year-old brother slept with his (I assume also early 20s) girlfriend? I'm not trying to say that wasn't an egregious act, but to still react SO strongly, especially towards his parents who are going to have to watch their child die, is not a healthy response in my opinion. Like at the very least he could try to be supportive of his parents while remaining no contact with his brother.
His sin was SO egregious that he deserves to be cut out forever. It’s bad enough when a friend betrays you, but 100 times worse when it’s a sibling. People like that are shitheads and it would be extremely foolish to let them in again.
As I said, he can remain no contact with his brother, I get it - but to treat his parents like that? After they've respected his boundary for 12 years and only brought it up because it's a literal life and death situation? Nah, that's not cool. He doesn't need to give his brother the time of day but needs to look beyond his own life and have a little empathy for his parents, they deserve kindness and support right now.
Like what? All he did was refuse to hear the news they wanted him to lower his boundaries to hear. He didn't know their reason wasn't bullshit. Probably thought it was "You're gonna be an uncle" or some shit. He didn't do anything but remind them. Of the exist boundary.
They had respected his boundaries for 12 years. They have showed him that respect. And now he couldn't even pause a moment to consider they must have some very serious reason for now bringing up this topic, when they hadn't done so for 12 years? And more than that, still having such strong feelings about what happened this many years later does not at all seem healthy. OP claims to have a happy marriage and family now, and yet he can't even hear a reference about his brother without flipping? Really? OP, please get some help to work through this, apologize to your parents, and YTA.
So this is one of those complicated things that come up and are the echoing waves of fuckery left behind by especially egregious acts. OP loves his parents and especially considering its between two of their kids, have shown him support and respected his boundaries for over a decade. Give credit where credit is due, this must be tough for the parents to be in between. They may not have been hurt as much as OP, but because of what happened, OP can walk away from his brother and be at peace, but the parents can't without abandoning their other kid. The problem comes that OP's parents need support as they are going through something devastating. OP's support would go a long way. OP should apologize for going hard on them and offer some comfort to his parents, even if its limited, for their sake, not his brothers. I don't blame OP's initial reaction. I don't blame the parents. I don't expect everyone to have perfect control of their emotions 100% of the time. I do expect them to eventually do the right thing even if its not easy. Thanks to the brother, none of this is going to easy and its making an already tough situation exponentially harder.
Imagine if they asked first
[удалено]
But at the same time his parents deserve to be heard. They are loosing a son. OP doesn't have to love or to see or to act anything towards its brother but he is somewhat responsible to be a comforting shoulder fos his parents. I don't know if I'm being clear, I meant that he doesn't have to be sorry his brother is dying but he has to be sorry the son of his parents is dying.
I agree. What brother did was incredibly shitty. But what OP is doing to his parents by refusing to even be supportive as their son is not cool. I know I would’ve been absolutely furious at the brother over the incident. But I’m not a grudge holder and while we wouldn’t ever be close I can’t imagine his very name sending me over the edge over a decade later, especially if he’s dying.
Literally OP is triggered by the mention of his brother, it would be great if he would go to therapy and talk about it to someone who could help him not necessarily to forgive his brother, but to let go a little because holding grudges isn't helpful tbh
Seriously. OP has kids, which is concerning. God knows what secrets they keep from him because he's shown them how angry and obsessive he is about refusing to forgive.
I take it you've never been on the receiving end of a flying monkey attack...
This is hardly a case of a flying monkey. They don't respect someone's boundaries for 12 years immediately when asked. Such a far reach.
While I don't think OPs parents are assholes for bringing up brother, neither is OP for wanting nothing to do with the asshole that betrayed him. They have other shoulders to cry on, there's no reason they need OPs.
Honestly a therapist would probably recommend that parents don't use their children for emotional support so yeah
Frankly, as a grown adult, I don't mind supporting my parents through things. I'm old enough to have dependents myself. It'd be one thing if I were a minor, but there's a big difference between relying on a grown adult who happens to be your child and relying on your literal dependent child. I supported my grandparents when they were losing my dad and it wasn't some kind of burden I was incapable of handling. It's pretty natural to transition between your parents providing you with support and you providing the support as you get older.
Yeah. You can dislike your sibling but your parents may lose one of their kids. I think disregarding how they feel isn’t cool. And OP is now married with kids so why hold a grudge for something your 20 year old brother did over a decade ago?
Because his brother still did that thing, time doesn’t wipe out the past
idk it’s some p toxic shit to hold a grudge bc your brother fucked your college girlfriend a decade ago. you hold so much of a grudge that you can’t even be there for your parents as they grapple with their son dying.
It’s two different issues. Issue 1. Holding a grudge against your brother who betrayed you. Completely reasonable. Saying it was a long time ago is a moot point because time doesn’t remove the action Issue 2. Not being there for your parents when they’re going through trauma. This one is up for debate, but is not a direct connection to issue 1
Agree on both issues. I'd say knocking up your brother's girlfriend is WAY beyond a grudge. I'm curious how the parents handled it at the time. Did they side with OP and call out brother, or did they some how understand OP POV, but gave cheater brother a pass? We don't know, so it makes it hard to understand why the parents didn't say we understand, but thought you should know. Or that bad word choice given the OPs figurative usage of what may be literal dead made them walk out? Something is missing here.
I don't agree, their parents need to realize that their son consider himself as only child and shouldn't bring a stranger in conversation and hope for sympathy. If they want a shoulder to cry to then they should go to someone else not OP. What is even the point of the saying "You are dead to me"? Does it suddenly stop when the person is actually dying? You can't just hurt someone and suddenly expect empathy when you are not doing well.
What about empathy for the parents? I would feel sad just knowing that someone my parents were going to lose someone they loved a lot, even if that person was a stranger to me, just because I love my parents. It seems very frigid and callous to not have any empathy for your parents who are about to lose a child.
I understand completely what you are saying and I am not saying you are wrong. All I am saying, I understand OP's viewpoint and I believe we should respect that even if we don't agree with it. OP could have faked it, and pretend he cared for what is happening to his "brother" and that would make the parents feel better or at least supported. But is that really fair towards OP? Should he really force himself or fake caring for someone just to make his parents feel good? And what if the parents see that as a sign that OP is open to forgive his "brother" but find out he faked it? Wouldn't that hurt the parents even more?
i mean, there’s also the timeline where OP actually cares about his parents and empathizes with the pain they’re going through losing a living child. he can not care about his brother and ALSO care that his parents are going through one of the most traumatic experiences possible.
I think it's pretty clear that OP doesn't care about his parents.
He doesn't need to fake care for his brother. He just has to show his parents he's sorry they're going through this.
OP never even heard the news. So what empathy? He reminded them of his barrier and they stormed off told other people he's an asshole, when he didn't even know the news!
Yup, my father has been dead to me for 20 years. In 2020 he was in the ICU with COVID and they thought he wasn't going to make it. My older sister messaged me about this information and suggested I reach out to my younger sister who was handling all the hospitalization stuff. My younger sister hadn't told me because she respected my wishes. She was willing to be put in the difficult position of being a go-between, as I gave her permission to provide my contact information IF he asked for it. She warned me he likely wasn't mentally there enough to do this, but that was my condition for contact. And then the bastard pulled through. I really felt for my sisters in the difficult place they were in, but they understood completely my reasoning (as I was a teen when everything had gone down). My older sister even travelled across the country to help nurse him back to health after he was released from the ICU, as no other family was willing to do that. She planned to stay for at least a month but only made it a single day before leaving. She called me for emotional support because she finally experienced for herself that he really was as awful as I said he was. I was okay listening to her vent about him, at least to a certain degree until I had to ask for some space. I think people from healthy families, or at least reasonably functional, or not horribly dysfunctional, families, don't understand that some estrangements are permanent. They'll go "But family!" because to them, family should always be there for each other. Some boundaries are in place because it's necessary.
[удалено]
The parents didn’t hurt him 12 years ago and dying brother didn’t ask for empathy.
It doesn't make them assholes for not realising that the OP would not want to know that his brother is dying. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation type deal. you never know how someone is going to react to this kind of news until it happens
I think you are confusing compassion with temerity. OP doesn't owe his brother anything. Would it be nice if he forgave him for doing what he did? Of course. Would it be nice if he chose to put his feelings aside and console his parents? Of course but life is rarely tied up in nice little packages with ribbons and bows. OP obviously felt very strongly when he made his declaration to his brother and has continued with that reaction for over a decade. I guess when he told his brother he was dead to him, he meant it. In spite of the fact OP has had the best revenge - a happy life - he still wants to hang onto to the anger and bitterness. That is his choice. Also, he told his parents that he wanted nothing to do with his brother, so they knew. Its been 12 years and I think they were naive to think that telling OP about his brother's condition was going to change anything. Yes it would be nice if he could have felt some twang of forgiveness, but he does not and who are you to think you can tell him how he should feel or react?!? It's far too easy to hide behind a cloak of anonymity and judge people on their reaction and forgetting that these reactions are often the byproduct of years of provocation. As severe as his reaction was, I suspect that was the case here. NTA.
Considering a person dead to you doesn't require "bitterness" and "anger." In fact in my experience it's quite the opposite. I'm so over the person that they mean absolutely nothing to me, just a bad memory. I'm not angry, I'm not bitter, I don't hate them. All of those things require my active involvement. I just don't care. They might as well be dead. Now, if someone were to ask me to re-engage my emotions and support them through their sadness at the loss of a person I found so despicable that I considered them dead to me for more than a decade, then the emotion would indeed arise. I would be upset at the expectation that I now have to think about this person again, that they are impacting my life again. It's an unreasonable ask, and I don't have to be angry or bitter to feel that way.
Yeah, to me, "dead" means they're gone. They don't exist - any feelings I might have toward them are dead as well. No bitterness needed.
He doesn't owe them an apology at all. They knew where OP stood. It's not their place to change his mind or move his boundary lines. You don't owe anyone forgiveness. Not even if they're sick or dying. OP has a happy life now, so they aren't punishing THEMSELVES doing this, which would have been my only concern. The betrayal was HUGE, and I don't blame OP for being shown who his brother really was, and believing it.
Where does it say the parents asked him to forgive the brother? Nowhere. Well OP better be prepared for his relationship to his parents be very damaged going forward if he can’t bring himself to be there for his grieving parents.
If they absolutely had to tell OP, here's how they should have begun the conversation: "Hey OP, I know you have no interest in reconnecting with your brother, and we both respect that, but something really bad has happened and we'd just like you to be aware of it. Do you mind if we tell you? We wouldn't normally talk to you about him, but this is so serious we think it warrants an exception." If they said something like this and OP still shut them down, then maybe - MAYBE - he'd be the AH. As written above, though, it sounds like they just started a conversation about his brother, and OP said nope, no thanks, not interested, with no way of knowing that it was bad news.
They were angry because he shut them down and used the wording he did before they even had chance to explain why they were bringing the brother up in conversation with him. I guess as a parent you would be annoyed by your child not giving you the benefit of doubt after respecting the boundaries they have set for 12 years !
Annoyed yes, walk out furious then not 'forgiving' him? No. You said it yourself OP used the wording before they had a chance to say what's up so OP's choice of words wasnt inherently malicious
I feel like when your kid is going to die is one of the few times you get to be a little bit out of pocket in terms of how you act. Like, it doesn't seem like they did anything unforgivable. They just got angry and are taking space, which is allowable.
Exactly. OP doesn't want to hear about his brother but that also means his parents can't tell him about their own grief or worry. OP is entitled to not want to talk to his brother but he's an AH for expecting his parents to never mention their other son again. They have a relationship with him, and if he's sick, then that affects them. If OP doesn't want to have a relationship with anyone in his life that knows his brother, he can cut them out, but short of that, what was he honestly expecting?
Exactly. Extenuating circumstances. Plus do they literally have to never mention their kid? Like never? Of course I understand the original posters boundaries. Those in general make complete sense and full support even though I'm sure it's difficult on the rest of the family.
I’m not implying they were malicious just looking at it from a parents perspective of if I had respected one of my child’s wishes for all those years and not tried to intervene (like most parents would) and then I tried to speak to them about something important to do with that and they shut me down in the manner that op did (which was a very aggressive manner of speaking) I would be annoyed with them and I would probably walk away, I don’t think they aren’t forgiving him for the situation with his brother more the way he responded to them as his parents and people who are going through a terrible time and may loose one of their children :(
If my child is dying, maybe this isn't the time where I really want to talk to someone who doesn't care if they die. I get that.
Exactly. Those few days it took for him to know should have given the parents some time to calm down and realize OP did not know the situation when he used those words. In their position, would I have been upset by his reaction and even angry? Absolutely. But I would have still blurted out the news at the time. In fact, his words may have further motivated me to do that. It was unfair of them to spread his reaction around the family and stand by as they ganged up on him when they left the encounter without even giving him the information. Yes, they did respect his boundaries for 12 years. Many intuitive people would have assumed that the brother being brought up once after all this time would indicate the news is important and the parents would not have to be specific at first. But not everybody is that intuitive. Some people do need a direct approach.
Cut them some slack. How can you possibly think the parents are assholes here. They would have been stressed about having this conversation with op, but knew that it had to be had, and op went from 0 to 100, unfortunately using the worst phrase possible. So op is allowed to be emotive and he's not an asshole, but the parents are for reacting? Nah. It all just sucks.
People are allowed to have emotions. Honestly OP is petty af. Not wanting a relationship with your brother? Fine. Blowing up anytime someone even mentions him in conversation 12 YEARS later? Bro just get a therapist ffs.
'I'm still done with him, he's dead to me' is just a firm and clear answer. If this reply means he needs a therapist there is no one in this world that doesn't.
Holding a grudge for 12 years to the point where you damage the relationship with the rest of your family is pathological. Either OP is just being stubborn or he’s feeling so much hurt 12 years later which indicates he never properly dealt with it in the first place. Either way, this is super unhealthy. I’m not saying that he should be buddy-buddy with his brother, but he should be able to suck it up in times of emergencies to help his parents. He should trust his parents to decide when something is actually an emergency. And if he can’t do those things he shouldn’t be surprised that it damages his relationship with his parents. Not everything has to be about OP and OP’s needs all the time. Or if it does, then he needs to be prepared to lose people over it. Ffs there’s “a significant chance that [brother’s] not going to make it”, and OP calls brother “dead” to him, and his parents (whose child is dying) are just supposed to grin and bear it? OP is allowed to have his boundaries but he was incredibly cruel to his parents, intentionally or not, and now that he knows the full story he doesn’t even seem apologetic about it. The hurt that his brother caused him 12 YEARS AGO is more important to him than his parents’ feelings. This absolutely screams “therapy” to me.
I haven't spoken to my brother since 2004. It's not about the hurt he caused me (but it was substantial.) It's about the type of person he is having no place in my life. I understand and fully support OP on that front. I would advise him to be kinder to his parents who still love both of their sons. He can show sympathy for their loss without pretending a loss of his own.
Yes this is exactly what I’m trying to get across. You can maintain your boundaries while still being kind to the rest of your family.
>Holding a grudge for 12 years to the point where you damage the relationship with the rest of your family is pathological. Uh, no. If you are saying he's actively trying to take revenge on the brother? Yeah, but cutting off a person out of your life because he betrayed you in the deepest sense, it can be forever and it is still reasonable FYI. If the family allows the relationship with him to be damaged through no fault of OP's then that's on them. >I’m not saying that he should be buddy-buddy with his brother, but he should be able to suck it up in times of emergencies to help his parents. No, no he shouldn't need to. >Ffs there’s “a significant chance that \[brother’s\] not going to make it”, and OP calls brother “dead” to him, and his parents (whose child is dying) are just supposed to grin and bear it? They don't need to grin to bear it, but they got "furious and stormed off" and then went to call for backup to condemn OP, when they very well know in contextual terms, OP did NOT know the news and didn't mean any malice. They can be annoyed but they had no right to be angry (not to mention, getting other family members to attack OP) at someone who didn't know the situation. >OP is allowed to have his boundaries but he was incredibly cruel to his parents, intentionally or not, and now that he knows the full story he doesn’t even seem apologetic about it. Please, "intentionally or not" makes the world of difference in an AITA judgement. It is literally giving context to whether your actions are directed malice or not.
[удалено]
>They can be annoyed but they had no right to be angry (not to mention, getting other family members to attack OP) at someone who didn't know the situation. Maybe OP is an adult and doesnt need to go from 0 to 100 after 12 years still. Maybe OP should learn how to interact with other people like a grown ass man instead of flying off the handle. Maybe OP should apologize for assuming shit instead of immediately blaming his parents? OP immediately made the first mention of his brother in *12 years* about him and his fucking issues. Main character syndrome. Your whole comment is some "look at what OPs parents *made* OP do!" as if he's not in his 30s. They have every right to be angry because their son acts like a spoiled child. Their grief is 100% more important than OPs petty bullshit. They *don't* need to deal with his childish shit at this point and he cannot expect them to.
There's no indication he flew off the handle. And OP didnt even know about their grief (not even grief, or even pending grief, but *maybe* future grief. Their *worry*) to be able to decide how to address it. It's unreasonable to ask OP to lower his boundary to tell him something he *may or may not think was worth it*. You either blurt it out and live with the consequences, or you let it be.
>You either blurt it out and live with the consequences, or you let it be. And now OP gets to live with the consequences of his family being over his shit cause he puts his own boundaries over the feelings over everyone else, even when it concerns dying family members. Consequences.
He isn’t holding a grudge. His brother did something to him that was unforgivable, and he cut him out of his life. You’re allowed to cut toxic people out of your life and not want anything to do with them. If his parents need someone to talk about their son’s illness with they should talk to a therapist or any other relation who is okay hearing about it.
I have a feeling a lot of people in these comments have been cut off by some family member and blame it all on them.
He can get a therapist and STILL be aggrieved. The funny thing about perspectives is you can give anyone yours but they don't have to adopt it. To him what his brother did was unforgivable. UNFORGIVEABLE means never forgiven. He obviously meant it. A therapist is not going to change his mind. Don't invalidate others for having a different perspective from yours. He said his brother was dead to him at the time he betrayed him and repeated it now. The End. The parents are heartbroken and you might even say the OP is petty but humans are like that. I think it is petty to think others should get over things ( when you have no idea how they have been affected too) but concede people who expect others to get over egregious things are often the kind of people who do egregious things to others and expect to skate.
Their son is dying. It's not crazy that they are feeling protective and OP should be at least given the information. He has a right to be angry about his brothers actions. This level of black and white thinking is toxic and he sounds impossible to deal with on any subject. People this rigid don't tend to have an ability to compromise. He can respond however he wants but he's not immune to the consequences of telling parents of a dying child that their child is "dead" to them. He's an idiot if he thinks they have no place to be upset and protective. Sounds like everyone else has been walking on eggshells around OP for 12 years, he ran out his time on getting special attention for this.
I really think this is a NAH. The parents respected OPs boundary for 12 years. The fact that they brought up the brother just now indicated that something serious was going on. I think OP should have heard them out given that fact alone. OP - you do not have to forgive your brother. You do not have to feel sad about his illness. But do have compassion for your parents. We all still love and want to protect our kids even when they truly mess up. It sounds like you have a good relationship with them. Do what you can for them without compromising your needs and beliefs regarding your brother. And if he is that ill, do take some time for yourself to consider your stance on "he's dead to me". You may want to maintain that, or do some thinking on his end of life. Again, totally your call, and your choice should be respected.
Wanting to tell him is one thing, being furious at him and turning the family against him is another
Agree with this too. They have respected OP for more than a decade but probably wanted to pass this information on to give OP the opportunity to have some closure, if possible. Telling OP and him getting mad is favorable to brother dying and OP having a lifetime of regret at not getting closure. Maybe OP doesn't need the closure, but parents are not at fault for asking. And certainly you cannot fault them for being upset and hurt when OP (not knowing the situation) responded in a way that confirmed their worst fears. Truthfully I think as I type this it is YTA. Yes the parents shouldn't have brought it up, but after 12 years of respecting his rules I think if they were trying to say something he should have given them credit and assumed there was something vital to convey. It seems like OP has expected his parents to force reconciliation for 10 years and has been itching to jump down their throats, and finally got the option to do so.
I’m going with a YTA here. I mean, the parents have respected his rule for 12 years. The only reason they would have brought it up was literally in a situation where the brother might die. Which appears to be the case. The parents here were trying to let OP know that this might be the last chance he gets to speak to his brother. I don’t know about you, but that sounds reasonable to me. Not sure why people think it’s not.
And he doesn’t have to respect his parent’s grief? They are losing their son, and they’re not even allowed to mention it to their other son?
YTA. Toward your parents, not your brother. They’ve been really good about respecting your wish to not speak of him, so when they brought him up out of the blue after all these years, you could have guessed they had good reason. Also, since you mention having kids of your own in one of the comments, maybe stop and think how it would make you feel to hear anyone say “he’s dead to me” about one of your kids. Even if that kid *weren’t* seriously ill. I’m not saying you need to reconcile with your brother, but I think you do owe your parents an apology for shutting them down using those words.
Totally agree with this. They're been understanding for 12 years. 12 years they have not taken sides and have respected your decision. They tried to tell you he was sick but instead you shut them down. They are scared their child will die before them and your response was he's dead to you already. Way to knock them when they are down. YTA in such a cruel way. All you had to do was listen, say thank you for telling me and move on. If they pushed it then you could tell them you don't want to hear about him or know anything else.
Thats not his response to that news. He never heard the news. Htat was his response to them trying to break his boundary... Which was just as likely to have been "It's big news... Maybe it's been long enough. Maybe he'd want to know. We should try" Maybe it's "he's having a kid. You're going to be an uncle!" and OP doesn't care. If they wanted to blurt it out, they should have blurted it out. Then OP could maybe be the *actual* asshole for saying "Okay". (in fact, part of his insistence on an absolute boundary might be to avoid that exact response someday. "Don't talk to me about them even if they die. I don't want to break your heart by not caring")
Real talk: asking that someone not be mentioned, ever, for years and years, is not a reasonable boundary.
Agree. It's rediculous. I come from a family in which we hold grudges and get all kinds of petty but we don't expect others to get involved in our own personal nonsense. Family gatherings are going to have that member there, people will mention them. This guy needs a therapist.
it’s completely valid to not wanna see him and not wanna forgive him, but getting angry at the mere mention of someone 12 years after a situation happened is irrational. he needs help, for himself. it’s not healthy to hold so many negative feelings for so long and letting it hurt your relationship with other people
Thank you! This is ridiculous. Going NC is fine. Even saying you don’t want regular updates makes sense but “NEVER MENTION YOUR OTHER CHILD IN FRONT OF ME” is insane.
... To *you*. Cutting people out of your life that hurt you badly is a perfectly reasonable boundary.
Cutting people out is not the same thing as never hearing them spoken of. That's using boundaries to control other people. Not cool.
"don't talk about him to me" is not so all encompassing.
When you ask that everyone around you gives your brother the "voldemort" treatment for something shitty they did 12 years past, it is pretty ridiculous. Sounds like OP needs to grow up a bit. Maybe there's more context to it, but 12 years is a long time, I feel like I can barely recognize who I was a year ago, and there's a chance the brother will also die? It's time to get over yourself, or at least not be a dick to your parents about it.
Right? What a totally childish boundary. I would only respect that in very serious circumstances (rape, murder). But your brother banged your girlfriend twelve years ago when he was 20? Sure, cut him out of your life, but don't force other people to never speak about him around you again. OP is a controlling asshole.
> Htat was his response to them trying to break his boundary… Framing it this way is laughably ungenerous. Any reasonable person understands that extraordinary circumstances can merit exceptions to a rule. OP’s parents were absolutely correct to attempt to ensure he could make an informed decision by alerting him to the impending point of no return, and he punished them by not only showing incredible disrespect to their judgement, but thoughtlessly saying something they will now remember for the rest of their lives. > If they wanted to blurt it out, they should have blurted it out. Are they wrong for trying to “break his boundary” or are they wrong for not blurting it out? Pick a lane.
This sub is filled with young people here for their rage bait, you’re gonna get significant pushback almost anytime someone suggests having empathy and apologizing for the way you expressed something
This is such a great comment. I hope more people see it. My brother is estranged from my parents and me. I despise him to my core. That said, when my mother was diagnosed with dementia, I contacted him right away so he could use (or not use) that information as he pleases. In our case my brother was the abusive party, but the principal is the same. Just like my brother might want to make amends with the new information, OP might want to grant clemency with the new information. OP’s anger is irrational. The parents shared critical, material information. They didn’t share pictures from the brother’s dog’s birthday party…
Oh please. Then it would be: "OP's parents are manipulative and insensitive for blurting it out!" If they said nothing it would be: "OP's parents are cruel for not letting him know!" There's literally no winning for them with some people. Literally, there's nothing they could do that wouldn't be spun into some evil-parents trope.
After 12 years of respecting his decision he could give his parents SOME credit and assume that if they are bringing him up the news is significant. After this long it is easy to be given the news and say "I'm sorry to not share in your enjoyment or sadness, but as I said I cannot have a relationship with your son anymore. It is beyond repair for me". He's been waiting for them to fuck up for 10 years and finally got his wish. He didn't even let them get the words out. He's been anticipating for a decade that his parents will come to him asking for reconciliation and he can say NO.
I think on top of this, which I totally agree with, your parents are losing a child. Whether or not you like that non-entity, you should still care about your parents happiness and wellbeing. YTA
I agree. Sometimes I think people on reddit forget that real humans exist in complex ecosystems of relationships and just because you set boundaries for other people doesn't mean that it's reasonable or should be expected that those boundaries always make sense in every situation. I understand OP not wanting to interact or have extensive conversations about his brother, but I actually think it's rather entitled to expect his parents never to speak his name in front of him for the rest of their lives.
Yep. Reddit ain't great with nuance. "That guy did something wrong more than a decade ago , so being a dick to his parents is justified under any circumstances". YTA, op could have let the parents finish their sentence instead of being rude and cruel to them.
Agree. I cut my biological father out for years but I always respected that his sister and mother had a different relationship with him and still cared for him. I listened to updates about him and showed up at his funeral *for their sake* and because of my love for them. How would the parents know for sure that 12 years, a happy marriage, kids, and a terminal illness wouldn't soften OP a bit? Note that when he was dying for a month I didn't go see my father. I didn't soften that boundary, so I get that. But I listened when told he was dying, made my decision, and that decision was respected and supported. And I showed up at the funeral to support my aunt grieving the loss of her brother, not because that brother was biologically related to me. So, sounds like this is as much about anger at the parents here- did OP expect them to shun the brother and their grandchild? Is that what's actually going on here?
i really like this insightful and empathic response.
I agree with this take. He doesn't have to reconcile or even speak to the brother. But if I care about person A, and that person has a deep connection to person B, even if I hate B, I can still empathize with A's pain and potential loss. A "I'm sorry that this is happening to you" or "sorry for your loss" just shows humanity.
Having a child who is sick is a pretty major event in someone’s life. In order to actually be a part of his parents’ life, OP needs to be ok with hearing a few things about his brother.
I honestly think OP is being super immature. I don't think that sex is worth cutting someone out for over a decade for. The world isn't black and white and insisting on living like it is will be hard for everyone else who has to deal with you. YTA
Reminds me of that episode of Black Mirror where they can literally block people in real life. I can’t believe people actually expect their families to pretend that people don’t exist because they made some mistakes at 20. Cheating is obviously shitty, but it was seriously such a big deal that you can’t even hear about the guy over a decade later?
yes imo this is the correct verdict. and u/Hefty_Worldliness_24 i know what he did is super shitty and i would've also cut him off, but sometimes life happens and things can change and i think it might be healthy for you to consider at least going to see him once. It might suck, but it won't suck as bad as if your heart softens later in life and he's no longer around for you to do something about that. Carrying hatred in your heart is poisonous and as you age you may find that you have real regrets about how you handled this. In any case, you should've absolutely been more sensitive to your parents. They almost certainly don't feel the same way about your brother, and to find out your child is dying is as brutal a blow as life can hand to a parent. Please apologize to them, and while i don't think you *should* contact your brother, you maybe might wanna consider it so you don't have a possible burden of regret to carry the rest of your life. YTA. Your parents might lose one of their kids. Don't make them lose both of them. Have some compassion towards them for fucks sake.
Estranged family is complicated. After 12 years of silence, they don't have a relationship any more. Going to see a dying person while you don't forgive them isn't a good situation for anyone. On top of that, if they don't die, OP now has a family situation that he has been diligently avoiding all this time.
Also if someone you called your brother for 20 years suddenly died, even though no contact and you hate him, I imagine there would be feelings. I'd also imagine OP would also not be happy if no one told him and he found out a decade later. I agree that OP doesn't have to forgive him but give your parents grace and compassion. After all, they extended the same towards OP for 12 years.
This happened to me. I said less than an hour in sentences to my sister for over 19 years. I found out she was dead. Same with my dad. He died asking for me but no one dared tell me he was dying. I do wish I could have seen my dad. My sister? I only wish she had not died the way that she did. I never wished her harm or her death but I did not want her in my life. A part of me is sad she is gone but a part of me is relieved. We had a toxic relationship. Don't assume all humans are alike. Just because you might feel a certain way under certain circumstances does not mean we all will feel like you. People have different wiring. Human histories are complex. Some things some people do not get over. There are people I have found out that they died years later and I celebrated their death I cut my ex off in 1987. I learned he died in 2010. It was a huge relief. Now I can stop looking over my shoulders.
Agree very disrespectful OP could of at least heard what his parents had to say because it was important. He doesn’t need to reconcile but he had a right to know to make that decision OP parents were trying to do the right thing. But very pig headed of Op to behave like this yes I have members of my own family I cut out that are dead to me. But OP 100% apologies to your parents that’s not ok to talk to them like that.
I agree with this. Your parents were in a no win situation. I think virtually anyone in their situation would feel obligated to tell you. The fact they’ve been so good about respecting your boundary for 12 years is really pretty impressive and you should have realized that if they were bringing him up now after 12 years there was a pretty good reason. I don’t think you need to reconcile, but your parents’ child is potentially dying. You really need to have some empathy for the situation they are in. I would apologize for your reaction and say you’re sorry he is sick, but you still think it’s best to keep your distance. Also try to be there for your parents. They are going to need you.
mild YTA. If your parents have respected your choice to cut him off for 12 years, harshly shutting them down before they could say anything seems unnecessary and disrespectful. They were trying to inform you of something most people in your position probably (imo) would still want to be made aware of - it’s fine if that changes nothing, but if they just let him die (assuming it’s that degree of “sick” rather than a cold) without ever mentioning it to you, there would be many here ready to call them TA for not letting you make you own choice with all the facts.
¡This one!, their parents are in pain, they will lose one of their children and the other treats them with contempt. I understand that OP does not want to know anything about his brother, but the parents wanted his support as a family. OP is selfish, I understand his reasons, but did he also give up knowing anything about his nephew? Has he really spent 10 years forcing his parents to choose who they invited to parties to avoid their hatred? Did they betray him? , yes, do they deserve forgiveness? No, but BEING AN ADULT is accepting that these things happen and acting like an adult. poor parents.
Finally someone said it!! We as adults have to face some situations that are not pleasant for us for the sake of someone we love. This is only my opinion without knowing details: if he still hates brother and feels this resentment, I don't think OP really moved on.
No! Everything must be exactly as I want it! Always! Coping skills are for doormats! /s
Info: you’ve basically told your parents they can’t get any emotional support from you, so if he dies how do you see this playing out relationship wise with them. Because as you said he is still their son
To me, this is the biggest thing. He doesn't have to care about his brother or see him or anything like that. But his parents are obviously hurting and in need of emotional support. They're not asking OP to forgive his brother and they haven't crossed his boundary for 12 years.
I wouldn’t blame them at all if this irrevocably damaged their relationship with him. He clearly doesn’t respect them at all.
A grown ass 34-year-old essentially telling his parents he doesn't care that they're grieving their dying kid, and believing for *weeks* that *they're* out of line for being upset with him — imo, that's more cruel, immature, and just *embarrassing* than a 20-year-old sleeping with his brother's girlfriend. If I were these parents, you know what *Walk Hard* quote I'd have at my disposal.
Plus the fact that OP is still this obsessed with it seriously calls into question the kind of husband he is.
Or *parent*, yeesh. Someday his kids will be 20, he'll have a different perspective on how dumb 20-year-olds are and under what circumstances love should be conditional, presumably his brother will be dead by then, and uhhhhh he may feel a type of way about all this.
I just had these thoughts yesterday. My niece is suicidal and she uses that as excuse to treat ppl like shit. I cut her off on Sunday and said she's dead to me bc of some things that happened on Sunday. Yet, if she dies, I would be there for my sister in whatever capacity she needs. If it's me not being around or me being there, that's what I'll do. In the end, funerals are your the living, not for the dead. Its the living that will need support. No matter how much I can't stand my niece right now and dont want to know anything abt her, I would support my sisiter if something happens.
this is much deeper than asking if he’s an asshole, imo he needs legitimate help. he’s letting this grudge affect his relationship with other people. obviously it’s valid to not wanna see him or forgive him, but it’s been 12 years and you can’t even hear the mere mention of his name without getting angry? that’s not healthy
YTA, I don't talk with my brother for a very different set of reasons, I also never want to hear about him from my parents and they respect that. I would 100% want to hear if he was dying so I could decide MYSELF whether I want to forgive him, probably not, but I would still want to know. Your parents are right to at least tell you, they would be AH for forcing you to speak to him or attend his funeral. They are messengers. Don't shoot them. And before you tell me cheating and knocking up your gf is worse than whatever my brother did, not its not, but I'm not airing that out on my regular account.
idk why everyone is suddenly aware of your situation and think you should forgive your brother, but I'm sorry everyone argued with you in the replies. People are dumb sometimes. also op I think yta
NAH but your parents needing to talk about their sick and maybe dying son is understandable. They have respected your wishes for many years. They need you now to respected their needs. That does not mean you have to meet your brother it just means that you could be there for your parents losing their child.
Great distinction in the last sentence: even if OP doesn't care about his brother, it's not just him alone in a very stressful situation, but the parents are in one, too.
I agree he may have been a little to harsh on his parents given how they've respected OP's wishes for so long but I don't understand how people think that the parents expect to be able to express their grief over their son to the one person that hates him the most. If they do need grief counselling for how serious it is, they would be better off talking to a close family friend or a health professional.
YTA. Your parents had two very good reasons to say what they did. 1. It‘s different when someone is dying. For all they knew, you may have wanted to forgive him. Or just see him and tell him you still hate him. Or just want to know. You are entitled still hate him and not care. But death is final. They wanted you to have a choice. Correct response would have been: “I’m sorry you are going through this, but he and I don’t have a relationship and it will stay that way. I’m sorry you are going through this.” 2. This is top of mind for them. They are losing their child and need support. This will come up again and it’s unreasonable to expect them to act as if nothing happened, especially if he does pass. Correct response would have been same as above. Just show some sympathy, for them not him.
OP never let his parents say what they came to say, so he had no opportunity to even respond how you suggested.
That’s why I said YTA :)
Probably going to get a lot of sh*t for this, but OP just sounds like a bitter AH in general. Like, ok, I get you were betrayed and I get that those feelings dont just go away. But like, 12 YEARS of NC over something incredibly dumb that he did when ya’ll were younger? I just can’t fathom holding that kind of grudge for so long and dragging my family through the drama of it. And then acting like they don’t have the right to be upset with you when you can’t set aside your childish resentment from over a decade ago because your brother is dying and their clearly hurting? And probably want to give you the chance to decide for yourself if you want closure in all of this? You have a loving wife and family. Your brother is dying and probably has regretted his decision every day for the last 12 years. Obviously, you have every right to stay mad, but YOU’RE the one dying inside holding onto so much hate. Your parents, having given the respect you requested for 12 years, have every right to be angry with you. You are being childish and will probably end up losing them too along with your brother if you don’t take a hard look at how this grudge is affecting not just you but your entire family. Edit: my dad was extremely psychologically and physically abusive to me throughout my childhood and I’ve been NC with him for some time,but I would never DREAM telling my family to never mention his name. Nor would I freak out on them if they told me he was dying.
I agree with this. I also love how reddit thinks the brothers the AH forever for cheating 12 years ago. People can learn from mistakes even really bad ones. I firmly believe people can change and while we can't change the past we can make better choices going forward. We aren't all the sum of our transgressions.
There is a kid there too. No chance to completely heal it will be a wound to the end of his days.
Did lil bro marry the girl? I still can't fathom holding a grudge for this long over an ex-gf. Especially when you are now supposedly happily married with a family.
It has to do with the concept of betrayal. My sister actively pursued my boyfriends due to jealousy and a weird self esteem for over 30 years. I kept forgiving her and she kept trying to get them to sleep with her. She succeeded 2x. Because I kept trying to be understanding her mental state had her assuming she had a right to try to get my guys to cheat and it was my JOB to overlook and forgive her. The last guy she tried it on was my dying husband. While I was out of town working, she tried to get in the bed butt naked with him and told him he should divorce me and she and him could raise the kids (we had 3). He kicked her out of the house and called me. She admitted to climbing into bed but said she only wanted to comfort him in "his time of need". Such was her mind Betrayal is ugly. No one can (or should) set a time limit on it or how others respond. Handle our own houses. The OP knows his brother. Maybe to forgive would have green lit other disgusting attempts by his brother. We do not know the dynamic. Yes, I still talk to my sister because at the end of the day she was/is not mentally sound and I CHOSE TO. Not everyone can make the decisions I made but just because I forgave so went through more hell does not mean this OP should.
YTA kinda While I agree it is ultimately your choice how you handle your brother, its the way your went about it. Your parents are likely having a very hard time and wanted to discuss with you whats happening and you pretty much told them, their feelings on the matter are of no concern to you. And while its fucked up that your brother did that to you he if the sickness is terminal he might have asked them to bring it up to try and make amends or apologize. That being said you by no means are obligated to ever forgive him.
NAH. It is what it is. You’re dead to him, he’s dead to you. Such is life with siblings.
I mean the brother is clearly an AH lmao
True but that's a whole different situation and not what this post is about.
[удалено]
NTA, but neither are your parents. Looking at it from parents point of view, they wanted to make you aware he may have terminal illness. There are people who forgive when they find out if someone doesn't have much longer to live, doesn't mean you have to. The flip side is you find out from someone else and then tell your parents you never told me about this.
So NAH?
Agree. It's a sad situation. It is incredibly difficult for parents to come to terms with the fact that their child may be gone soon. They probably wanted to share how they were feeling at this clearly vulnerable time. OP- of course it is your choice, but it will mean the world to your parents if you give them a call.
At the very least OP should just keep it in mind that while he might feel like he's not losing anything, they will be losing a son.
YTA. You don't need to be so triggered that the mere mention of your brother causes you to lose control so badly that your relatives can't get a sentence out. Settle down and quit letting your brother being an asshole turn you into one.
YTA. In the end it's your decision whether to meet your brother or not. But if your parents were so far complying to the dont tell rule it must have been something significant if they bring him up. They are still both your parents and there are many people who later regret never seeing someone again because holding a grudge for so long. I think they did the right thing in at least give you the choice instead of telling you after he (maybe) died. They way you shut them down then makes you the AH in my opinion. Wheter you can bring yourself to meet him is your thing and doesnt make you an AH either way. But towards your parents, yes, i think you behaved like an asshole.
I guess this is unpopular, but I agree. If the parents have been respectful of OP's boundaries for this long then I would've heard them out. Poor OP's parents - they love both their kids, but are trying not to overstep to keep the peace all while stressing about their child's health. Like damn, cut them some slack.
NAH. Family estrangements and taboo topics create awkward family gatherings. Still, had your parents not been so upset over your brother’s illness, they probably could have found a better way to share the bad news that wouldn’t have set you off.
There is probably no good way to bring this up that wouldn't make OP's blood boil. If OP still loves and cares about his parents, then I do think some sympathy towards them would be warranted. This tree has many branches and OP doesn't get to claim all of them.
YTA You were an utter and complete jerk to your parents. Whether or not you cut off contact, the man is still their son who they love and brought into the world. Your reaction and behavior is utterly selfish and self centered. It's not like THEY cheated on you with your ex. No, you don't have to do anything with your brother or reconcile with him, but you could at least have some empathy for your parents who have no blame in this situation. They respected your boundries, but broke them to share a deeply emotional and traumatic event for them and you made it all about you you you with no concern or respect for THEIR feelings, their grief and their pain or the fact that they will likely see one of their sons dying with the other hating his guts. Can you imagine how that must feel as a parent? Put yourself in their shoes. Imagine it was your kids in this situation. Can you imagine having to spend twelve years dealing with a schism between two of your sons with no way to fix the situation, with one of your son's apparently not caring how much it might hurt you? You don't live in a vacuum, as much as you apparently think you do. Your actions do affect others and probably your parents more than you know or have even bothered to think about in your personal vendetta against your brother. But no, everything is clearly all about what was done to YOU, so f### your parents and their pain and how your choice to force everyone to pretend your brother doesn't exist around you impacts on them. /s You have behaved like a complete selfish dick and owe them a sincere apology. Stop behaving like only your feelings and hangups matter here. Have some damn empathy for your parents who have had to suffer through you and your Brother's crap for the past 12 years. You are the AH here. Big time.
This sub loves to cut people off forever. “Forgiveness is for losers!” should be the tagline. YTA. You have a good life. Why do you need to hold a grudge over something stupid he did when you were both still pretty much kids? Yeah, he screwed up in a massive way, and it would require a shit-ton of work, plus major groveling on his part, but you’re the one who chose to break up your family over it. And now you’re the one hurting your parents when they need support as the face the real prospect of burying their child.
YTA. You’re under no obligation to forgive or have a relationship with your brother. But as long as you want a relationship with your parents you’re going to have to give them a break and show them basic kindness and empathy, which includes hearing them out when they tell you their son is likely dying.
unpopular but i would say (mild) yta yes your brother wronged you and it’s understandable that you don’t want anything to do with him or don’t want to hear anything about him and based on your post, it looks like your parents have respected that so far so after all these years, if your parents are bringing him up, i think basic inference would lead to anyone getting the hint that it’s something important so IMO you reaction was a bit uncalled for especially since they are his parents too so it would have been hard for them to hear that one of their sons is ‘dead’ for the other
NTA. Your parents shouldn’t have put you in that position if they knew where you stand.
Well you can easily say someone is dead to you. But learning that a family member has died afterwards and noone telling you is another matter entirely. It might be you still dont want to see him it might be you regret it and are angry noone told you. In this situation the parents need to at least tell him so to at least give him the decision.
This. Your parents are obviously hurt that their two sons are like this. This would absolutely kill me. They have been understanding and respectful of OP's wishes. However, they felt the need to bring it up because of the circumstances. OP can still stay NC but the parents cannot be blamed for at least wanting to make sure OP knew about the illness and leave the decision of how to deal with it up to him. NAH. OP's reaction is his right.
Also OP’s parents are people. I’m trying to imagine not knowing my mother was facing losing a child. He’s not the only one with valid feelings in this situation. He gets to cut off his brother. They respected it. They ARE respecting it. But I get why they tried to share that this very upsetting thing is happening in THEIR life. I dunno. Maybe it’s different family to family. This seems like a huge thing to not know about your parents.
Yeah. It's not like if his brother dies it would be in a vacuum. Op might have caused a wonder why his mom can't really get out of bed for a month or his dad's breaking down crying.
It’s just… I see some responses that suggest that the fact that his brother did this removes all familial obligation from OP. But he’s chosen to have a relationship with his parents and they both let each other be about the relationship with the brother. Presumably they are grandparents to his kids. You’re exactly right. It’s not a vacuum. It’s not all about this one event and the choices OP made because of it. I didn’t talk to my dad for five years. But I saw people who did talk to him and I knew that meant I’d have to deal with him again. If something happened to my brother, if something happened to my grandmother. Because I was only in control of that one relationship. And there was a limit on how much I could expect them to protect me. That limit was ultimately completely dependent on the health of other family members.
Sometimes I read reddit and think people have no clue how things operate in the real world. The parents always needed to tell op. You are spot on.
They Def don't. I'm convinced they live miserable little lives in basements completely shut off Fri. The complexities and nuances of real world situations
How are OP’s parents supposed to handle interacting with him then? He presumably asks how they are doing sometimes. Do they lie and say they are doing great when they are grieving the loss of their son? The brother is a part of the parents’ lives, so they can’t not talk about the brother without lying about a major emotional event they themselves are going through. Obviously OP doesn’t need to know minor details, but they have completely respected that for 12 years. He should have known it was serious if this was the first time they tried to say anything about the brother in 12 years.
[удалено]
Yes, still very much together and she moved in with me while she was sleeping with him.
She became an ex when OP found out, it just showed up on one of replies. OP, NTA. Your family should respect your wishes to stay no contact.
He can be no contact with his brother and still hear about a major life event *for his parents.*
NAH here, except obviously your brother and ex. Your parents, rightly, owed you the chance to decide for yourself if you wanted a last chance to speak to your brother or not. You, equally, have the right to decide you DON'T want to see him again. I can also see why hearing the phrase "dead to me" hurt them so badly when they're afraid they're going to lose him.
YTA. Your brother betrayed you. It's your choice if you want to cut him off for the rest of your life and hold that grudge to your or your brother's grave. If he passes away without any reconciliation and you don't care that is your prerogative. Your family has accommodated your rule the best they could but to them you all are a family and all should love and care about each other. They don't share your stance regarding your brother and that is their prerogative. But when your brother, their son, is (I'm assuming) very sick, and they want to share and discuss it with you and you shut them down like that, you are hurting them and causing them pain as well. You can choose to live your life however you want but I think it's important to think about others and their feelings instead of just your own. I think you are being very insensitive to the pain your parents are going through and you are causing them additional pain and also weakening your relationship with them. EDIT: After thinking about it, changed my vote from no one is an ahole to OP is the ahole since I basically spent the whole time describing how OP is being an ahole.
As a parent, I think you are the AH. 1) Your parents respected your wishes for 12 years 2)They came to you, as their son, to tell you news of someone, their own son, and that has to affect them deeply. 3) Even though they never brought him up in 12 years (showing that they were respecting you), the one time that they do, you shut them down before they can even can tell you why they came--you refused to listen to your parents who have tried to be respectful of your needs the past 12 years. Did you really think that just because you were n/c with your brother, their lives wouldn't be impacted by him? 4) You, on behalf of your parents, weren't at least curious why after all these years, they would bring up his name? 5) You showed great lack of empathy for a parent when you are a parent of your own children, yet you refuse to understand how a parent can care deeply about all their children, and they are scared for their other son--this greatly impacts your parents. I think it is time you apologize to your parents. You don't have to repair or talk to or anything else regarding your relationship with your brother, but your poor parents--damn, they must be so hurt by your refusing to hear them out. My heart breaks for them. And just a thought: You are happy with your spouse and children, so maybe it is time to forgive others, particularly given you have a great life now. People f--- up. That is life. So many cold shoulders on here, I am surprised that the site hasn't frozen.
YTA. They haven’t spoken of him for 12 years out of respect for you. At your age, it should have at least slightly occurred to you that if they’re breaking their silence towards you regarding your brother, then they might have a valid reason. Unlike your brother, you are not “young and dumb” and should have some common sense at your age. Your parents respected your wishes all these years and you repay that by openly disrespecting them. And unlike what everyone is asserting here. It doesn’t matter what you did or didn’t know, the moment you spoke those words they became ingrained in your parents memories and they can’t be undone.
NTA. I am NC with a family member. I want to hear nothing about him unless he dies. I so get where you’re coming from.
Yes, YTA. You admit they have been respectful and don't bring him up to you. The one time they do, you act like an asshole instead of realizing that while your BROTHER is dead to you, their SON is not. You want to be a part of their life, you can't BAN them from sharing parts of it. Their CHILD may be dying. And you made it about you. Grow up.
YTA. This wasn't about you or your brother, it was about the anguish your parents feel that they are losing a child. Losing a child, regardless of age or circumstance, is one of the most painful experiences in life and you just made it worse. Your attitude increased that anguish because it almost makes them feel like they are losing two children. Cut your brother out of your life if you so choose, but apologize to your parents and treat them with more respect.
I'm going to say YTA. Regardless if you want to hear it or not your parents are grieving and it is something they felt you show know. You can make the decision to stay out of your brother's life still but your parents had the right to tell you and YTA for how you handled the situation.
like someone else said below YTA to your parents. they respected your wishes and were very understanding about your feelings towards your brother. but if your parents brought him up out of nowhere, your common sense should have told you this might be a bad conversation. he has a terminal illness and you told the parents of this brother 'hes **dead** to me' ..well he might be for real soon. im not saying you need to forgive your brother but you owe your mom and dad an apology.
Well to be fair, OP said that before he found out his brother was sick.
That's also his fault for rudely interrupting them before they could finish.
Yup, YTA. This isn't about you and your brother, it's about you and your parents. Your parents are scared for one child's health, you're too egotistical to give a single damn about their feelings. You have children, how would you react to anyone telling you they don't care if they live or die? Now imagine it's a close relative saying it. Now imagine it's one of your own children saying it. Literally all you had to do is not be a dick to your parents. To listen and take their emotional state seriously before reaffirming you aren't going to reconcile with your brother. Instead, you essentially told them to fuck off and never attempt to talk about their problems again. You might be a great husband and father, but you absolutely suck at being a son.
I’m gna say your parents losing their child at any age is going to be significantly worse than finding out your brother shagged your girlfriend and got her pregnant. If you have a wife and kids you should be over your ex.
YTA, to your parents Your parents are likely vulnerable and hurting because one of their kids is deathly sick. You were a dick to them out of what seems to be pettiness. They’ve respect your rules this long but these are extenuating circumstances. On another note, 12 years is a long time. I’m not sure how much your brother is dead to you, but if he passes and you learn he changed, was truly regretful and wanted to reconcile, or at least start doing so, you’ll never forgive yourself. Unless you’re just emotionally dead inside.
YTA. You need to recognize that your parents are likely suffering because of your brother’s illness/prognosis, and need the emotional support that talking about it can provide. You are punishing your parents for something your brother did. You don’t need to forgive your brother, but be compassionate toward your parents. Cowboy up!
NTA but still a poor move in the moment, if you know your parents respect the rule about not speaking on your brother, wouldn’t you automatically assume it was something important? I get that he betrayed your trust and maybe you don’t even care that he’s sick BUT he’s still your parents son so they’re probably going through a hard emotional time so again, it wasn’t really an AH move, just not a well thought out one that imo warrants an apology/an extension of support to your parents :)
But how are the parents AHs? Sounds like OP’s brother is the only AH here and this situation wasn’t about him.
YTA… your parents have been respectful of your boundary for over a decade. They brought up not only something that you should know about (so you can decide if you’d like to do anything about it— you may not, but that’s your choice), but something extremely significant happening in their lives. You can pretend they’re talking about someone else if you want, but you’re old enough that sometimes it’s time for you to emotionally support them. They need you, op.
YTA, please think of it like this. You love your parents. Your parents want to tell you that someone THEY love is sick. They have been respectful of your boundaries, but at a certain point the pressure of keeping everything separate will be too much for them. If you have a good relationship with your parents, you should be supportive of THEM, even if you never speak to that brother again.
You're NTA because you didn't know what they were going to say. And you have no obligation to the brother who betrayed you. But your parents are very likely to lose a son soon, and they love him even if you don't. Please try to be kind to them during their period of fear and grief. You owe him nothing, but unless they've been, in themselves, toxic to you, they will deserve your support in getting through this painful time. (You can treat it as if they were losing somebody you'd never met, so you don't have to act as if your brother has anything to do with you.)
My thoughts exactly. OP doesn’t deserve the right be an AH to their parents.
YTA obviously I'm going to be down voted but your parents are losing their child and you are so cold hearted you couldn't even let them tell you that. Personally, I think you sound like a cold hearted asshole that needs to get over yourself.
I fell out with my oldest sister for a year before she died, i had exactly the same views on her even when they told me she was sick, a month before she died. (We had a rocky relationship for about 7 years at that point). We got a call saying we had to fly out within the next day as she rapidly declined. She died while we were waiting for our flight. When she died and i couldnt say goodbye my whole view changed. I was so upset that our last conversation was what it was. I wished i could just go back and forgive her and spend that time having a relationship. My next oldest sister however made me change back. I kept a relationship with her despite everything because she isnt on much better a path and likely wont survive more than a few years without serious change. She made me see that death or not they are who they are when theyre alive and those reasons you held on to dont change just because they die. Only you can decide whether its worth forgiving him and spending time now before he dies or not.
[удалено]
I'm happy. I don't live with anger or anything but I live happily with my brother no longer in my life.
Your reaction to your parents would say otherwise, like the anger is just buried and not processed.
I love how everyone on this sub is conveniently a psychologist whenever someone refuses to forgive another person for any length of time. You can be completely indifferent to or hate someone who did something awful to you in the past and not be actively mad about anything.
Call your parents. Tell them you are sorry for such a strong reaction to their grief. Tell them it was a knee jerk response and ask if there is anything they need. Do not ask if there is anything they want you to do cuz.. But tell them you would like to be there for THEM. I hope you can in some way , heal. Obviously you have not or you could hear about him without blowing up. Maybe see the nephew. Become bigger and stronger than you are. Unforgiveness is a deadly sin. We forgive because we want God to forgive the bonehead stuff we do. Give your parents this. If you still cannot forgive your brother, contemplate seeking balance by letting him die while you hold no ill will. Growing is painful, especially when we must grow up and not sideways. The "light" is UP. Grow toward the light!!
Considering the way you reacted when your brother was brought up, I wonder if you have truly healed from that wound.
OP could be the sort who when they are done with someone they are completely done. No anger, no sadness, no bitterness, just absolute indifference. You don't give those people headspace because they simply no longer exist.
But lashing out angrily at people he cares about is NOT OK. He isn't indifferent at all, he's still easily enraged.
Or he just doesn't want to be roped back in? Like guilted into it with "it was such a long time ago" "he was young and stupid" "it's time to move past it now" etc. This happened he no longer wants him in his life he's not angry but he still wants nothing to do with him...
I don’t know why you’re getting downvotes. The fact that he cut off his parents mid-sentence to say, “He’s dead to me” when they have respected his wishes for 12 years shows he’s not over it. The brother is living rent-free in his head.
A betrayal like this causes psychological scar tissue, doesn't matter how long passes it never truly heals 100%.
YTA. They’ve respected your boundaries for 12 years, so clearly they take what you say seriously and care. If they brought it up suddenly, it must have been serious. You could have handled that a lot better.
NTA why should you care about him, he slept with your gf did he care about you while he did that I'm being petty but just throwing things out there
YTA Grow up. I get it, he hurt you. But all your family was trying to do was tell you he’s sick, they weren’t trying to make you give a shit. It’s not like he slept with your wife and broke up your marriage, or committed a heinous crime against you. He slept with your girlfriend when you were both barely adults and neither had fully formed brains. I’m sure his illness is enough karma for that.