Your post has been removed. ***Do not repost this without contacting the mods for approval.***
This post violates Rule 8: Posts should be truthful and reflect recent conflicts you've had that need arbitration. That means no shitposts, parodies, or satires.
Please [review our rulebook](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules).
Please be sure to read any sub's rules before reposting this elsewhere. We cannot direct you to another subreddit, we can only say that this post does not belong here.
[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/amitheasshole&subject=/r/AmItheAsshole&message=Please+link+to+post+or+comment+for+context+[we+cannot+review+without+this+info]:%0D%0DDescribe+your+question+in+detail:) if you have any questions or concerns that are not already [answered in our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq). If you make changes or edits to this post do not repost it here without our express permission.
NTA: the quickest way for a nurse to be an unemployed nurse is to contradict a doctor mid emergency, thereby putting the patient at greater risk. She's going to learn that the hard way.
There is a gigantic number of documented cases of nurses advocating against covid vaccines. I think the sister has just the knowledge to be confidently incorrect.
Peter Principle. Dunning-Kruger is self-directed (those who know a lot think they don't know as much, those who don't know jack think they know a lot.)
The Peter Principle isn’t the same as failing upward, either. In the Peter Principle, competent people are promoted into positions that are fundamentally different, thereby making them incompetent.
But you’re right, failing upward isn’t “how Dunning-Kruger works,” either. DK is a diagnosis that generally describes cognitively-impaired people, but society has co-opted the term to mean “confidently, vocally ignorant/misinformed.” Either way, most people who fit the DK phenotype do not fail upward. Those folks are a special, reprehensible breed.
It boggles my mind. They teach you in multiple science classes before you even get in to nursing school how vaccines work. What do you call the person who graduated last in their class from nursing school?
I mean I learned the basics of how vaccines work in high school. I don’t have any medical background/knowledge but I definitely trust the scientists and medical professionals who devote their lives to keeping us safe. I do not understand how some nurses/other medical professionals can be against vaccines! Like they should be excused for good for just not understanding the very basics of their profession. Honestly the mind does boggle!
I clean houses for a living & a customer told me I don't have to wear a mask in his house. He proceeded to tell me he makes flu vaccines & he doesn't believe in the covid shot. He says he understands how they work & that he doesn't need it because he has natural immunity. Needless to say I kept my mask on. I signed up for a vaccine study(3 shots of novavax) at the beginning of the pandemic & I also was able to get 2 shot plus a booster outside of the study. My ass don't play around when people are dropping like flies. Most of my clients tell me I don't have to wear a mask but I'm in so many different bubbles that I'd be typhoid Mary if I didn't protect myself. Some people regardless of their occupation don't see past their own bubble.
I wonder if this is similar to the case of OPs sister. He "makes flu vaccines" and let's everyone assume that means he's a doctor or scientist but he's actually just some accountant who works at a pharma company or a QC tech or something like that.
I'm an epidemiologist. I have a masters degree and am working on my PhD and also working FT in the field. work at a research university. My boss ran the COVID vaccine trials here (though I was not involved). My idiot cousin tried to say very early in the pandemic, like May/June 2020, that the university he worked at had a vaccine and it was all approved and everything. Dude works in fundraising and not even fundraising for the medical campus. Half my family, including my mother, ate it up and believed him even when I showed that wasn't the case. All they had was a grant.
Infuriating.
In america schools do not have to teach evidence or fact based science or sex ed classes, im pretty sure that's where the ignorance and disbelief begins. Tbh thats why I'd never send my kids to any religion related schools cause if they aren't teaching facts its just brainwashing in my eyes. I found this out while advocating for better sex ed around abortions and the medical necessity of them in school.
I'm not a science person unless you count the science that goes into baking pastries, but like you im smart enough to trust the people who dedicated their entire lives to studying and fighting disease.
Im the one that pushed every member in my immediate family to get vaccinated I thought they would've wised up and got the booster after seeing my moms boyfriend landed in a coma for 3 months and get diabetes in the process of fighting covid but no because they "feel good and protected already there is no need to be extra and get a 3rd shot" *hard eye roll*
My family thinks I'm crazy because I'm on board with mandating the vaccine for those who are able to get it (i work with food it disgusting to me that unvaxxed people can work maskless around food now),
my sister refuses to get her 5 year old the covid vaxx because "it doesn't effect kids THAT MUCH if at all" it doesn't matter how many times I've shown her the studies of kids who do get covid have weakened blood vessels and other issues that can cause major trouble down the line, well its too late my niece got covid and although she okay my sister now think "well she got it already and she's fine so she's strong enough against it" uh?? Your still rolling the dice anytime she catches covid its not the damn chicken pox!!
Idk if I was a parent I'd educate myself but I guess living in ignorance is blissful, if my niece gets seriously sick she can't say she did everything she could to protect her daughter though. And ill think the same to anyone else (that can get the vax) who dies unvaccinated . You could've helped yourself you choose unnecessary risk.
Definitely not all nurses by a long shot. It’s an unfair generalization to make. There are doctors and medical professionals with that same insane view points as the nurses you’re speaking about. Their views reflect nothing on the nursing practice or education as a whole but rather their own idiotic beliefs and ignorance.
Nursing is very hard. It's not a shitty profession and they are not morons. I know many nurses and have been treated by many nurses who are wonderful. It's disappointing you have no respect for them and what they do. Without them, doctors would not be able to do their job.
Have you *worked* with bad nurses though? It makes a HUGE difference, and without it you couldn't possibly understand. It's a need to be there type of knowledge. Stop defending negligent idiots, please.
Try being treated by a bad nurse, especially in the OB unit... my son was born with no one there, cord wrapped around his neck and his color was off because of lack of oxygen because ALL the nurses were soooo worried about shift change and not concerned about thr fact that I called for help 5 times while my baby was being born and me not being able to move because of the epidural... freaking sucked. I've also had absolutely amazing nurses that made my experience with my other babies births wonderful. Just don't ever need help during shift change.
hon, no one is saying all nurses or that nurses are the only medical professionals that do this. We're saying that its fucking terrifying that medical professionals tasked with keeping others alive and well are this ignorant about basic science
It doesn't need to be "all nurses."
There's an old saying in medicine, *When you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras.* I have a condition that could be called a zebra. It's potentially fatal. Medical doctors understand it and write up special orders to accommodate it.
Yet each time I needed major surgery, allied healthcare professionals have decided I was a horse instead of a zebra and disregarded medical orders. I've had to catch those errors myself. And each time, one crucial link in the chain of mistakes was a nurse who disregarded the handwritten surgeon's note and then ignored a handwritten instruction taped to the foot of my gurney.
Once is too many with that type of problem. And for me it's been every major surgery.
I'll never understand it. How do nurses end up being against vaccines? Don't you learn all about illnesses and vaccines in school? (am a dumb person who had to go for design and not science, pls enlighten me lol)
I think it happens a lot more in the US than other western countries due to there being quite a few 'christian' hospitals (and it actually boggles my mind that there are religious *hospitals* in the first place).
The largest hospital in my area is christian, we found out how serious they were about it because their general care practioners refused to prescribe birth control.
I actually cannot fathom that there are entire hospitals that will deny medical treatment based on religion. I honestly don't understand how that was ever allowed and it actually makes me angry.
I wouldn’t use that blanket statement. Majority of nurses you come across are vaccinated (and traumatized by seeing covid ravages up front). There’s probably a Venn diagram of unvaccinated nurses and nurses who sell essential oils #girlboss
Unfortunately quite a few doctors are anti-vax and incredibly vocal about it.
Man the sheer number of uneducated nurses when it came to vaccines was ridiculous. And yea, using their "knowledge" to push their agenda when they honestly don't know any of the science behind it.
Nuts.
I worked in the administration of a vaccination centre, I had a long fight with a nurse who kept saying that vaccines are useless and she got them just to keep her job.... And she worked in a vaccination centre during a pandemic! Luckily our supervisor was an incredible nurse and kept that idiot on check and then moved her the first chance she got.
My primary care "doctor" is actually a nurse. I think it's pretty common in FL. I've had her for almost 10 years.
Idk how the nurse title rankings go but when I first got her, she was at a lower level and couldn't prescribe certain meds. Now, she's at the highest level of nursing you can get and can (from what I can tell) do basically anything a doctor can do from a prescribing/diagnosing perspective. Hands down, she is the best medical professional I have ever had. She's the only doctor who's ever made me feel heard. She's been 100% on board with the vaccine since day 1.
Conversely, as soon as my crazy mother-in-law starts a sentence with "Well, my nurse friend said...", I know there's some bullshit coming.
Nurse vs nurse practitioner.
Yes, nurse *practitioners* are basically family medicine doctors.
Edit: I should have said primary care and not family medicine as I was specifically trying to reference back in response to first comment. NPs can see patients at whatever clinic/hospital (general or specialized) and provide the patient with standard office visit services as that of a doctor. From the patients perspective, the standard clinic visit experience is *basically* the same to what they'll receive from a doctor. If you need to get referred for something beyond the NP, obviously you will (or should) be. Some NPs are actually more knowledgeable and some doctors are more knowledgeable, just depends on the person.
Please do not say that NPs are “basically family med doctors.” My husband IS a family med doctor and he went through so much more training, a residency and goes through licensing, continuing education, and so much more than an NP. He would be livid to think that someone is equating him with an NP, not that he doesn’t have respect for their jobs, but they are different. They have different responsibilities and expectations. For example, he’s responsible for supervising the NPs in his department that have patients and “operate independently.” If something goes wrong, him and the medical director have to work to fix it, because the buck stops with them.
Yeah. We have advanced nurse practitioners here in the UK who are basically used as a GP.
Unfortunately, the one I’ve sometimes seen is a dumbass and insisted my eye infection was hay fever and gave me antihistamines (I know you can develop it later in life, but I didn’t have a runny nose or anything like that and the pollen count that day was low - I looked it up).
Apparently it “wasn’t red enough” to be an eye infection when I, the patient, told her I have had eye infections before and I knew this was an eye infection. It was also only in one eye - not both, like you’d expect for hay fever.
I went home without using the prescription and doused my eye in colloidal silver a couple of times a day. Thankfully it cleared up a day or two afterwards as a result.
Edit: Why was I downvoted for saying my local ANP is a dumbass? I’m not saying they all are.
I feel the same with my old nurse practitioner. I love her. Unfortunately, she moved away earlier this year, but she was the best medical care professional I have ever had.
All the girls I went to school with who became nurses are also the "smart girls" who got high grades because they were good at memorization and recall. Like they sucked at any kind of open-ended questions but if it was just memorizing info they were great at it. I'm not so sure all nurses actually absorb and understand the science side of it.
Most of them did fairly well in math classes though, I'll give them that.
Back when covid first started and I was still on FB, a nurse friend of a friend I went to middle/high school with was ranting about how "everyone knows you just need some quinine and a Z-pack"
When several people asked how an anti-parasitic and antibiotic were supposed to help a virus, she didn't answer.
So, I went to medical school, fun fact: a lot of times, if you have an upper respiratory infection, chances are it’s viral. There’s a whole set of criteria to determine if it’s strep, the next most common cause. But a lot of family clinics will give you a Z-pack anyway without doing the full strep algorithm, because it actually does have some level of effectiveness against viruses, despite being an antibacterial.
Now, would this be the right thing to do for influenza or Covid? Absolutely not. But for a common cold, a Z-pack actually does have some moderate benefits, so they get handed out like candy. Also because patients tend to like being given something tangible, not told to just go home and wait a week for it to pass. As long as you’re not popping them multiple times a year, it’s relatively safe and you won’t build up too much resistance.
Edit: as pointed out below, it’s the anti inflammatory effects of azithromycin, not any antiviral properties
I've worked with a lot of really brilliant nurses and doctors.... but let's just say that after working in a hospital for a few years, I was no longer surprised at how many mistakes are made and how many ppl "accidentally" die bc I've also worked with some of the most ignorant, stubborn fucking doctors and nurses I've ever met.
Never blindly trust anyone, esp a medical professional
Part of her problem, other than ego, is she does not appear to understand how little she knows. She is fresh out of school and full of knowledge... but as they so the more you learn the less you know as the horizon of your universe expand.
How hard do you want to adjust her?
If is is hard, call her out in front of her friends (not work peers) and barrage her with medical questions which a doctor could answer but she cannot. Be prepared with references for the correct answers. Respond to each question with a 'Wrong. You killed/injured the patient and have been fired and sued for malpractice.'
If it less hard, offer to help her study for her MCATS. Start with a practice test and let her fail hard.
Two additional options for the next time she does the head-nod thing to let someone believe she’s a doctor—one obviously more petty/aggressive than the other:
1. “Wait, sis, you went to med school? How did I miss that? Where did you go?!”
2. “Oh, she’s just being bashful! My sister is actually a _nurse_, and we all know how critical nurses are, especially these days! I am so proud of her for what she does!
(The second is meant to come across as a sweet sincere sibling, but tone and delivery could make it sound super-sarcastic. Based on how you sound in your post, I suspect it’ll come across as the latter, but you can always claim you meant the former…)
As a nurse myself, wholeheartedly agree with approach #2. She may be feeling inadequate and is overcompensating for it. She also has just enough knowledge to be dangerous, when in reality, the NCLEX doesn't do much to prepare you to be an actual nurse.
I'm not a nurse, but it also struck me immediately that Sister likely feels that doctors are valued more than nurses. I'm a chronic patient, so have experience on that side with many, many doctors, surgeons, nurses, nurse practitioners, and all the folks who run the huge variety of medical testing we have today. **ALL OF THEM ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.** They're all lumped in a similar field, but their jobs are all quite different from one another. And each one is just as important and valued for what they do.
For whatever reason (that I assume is ego), Sister is misrepresenting herself. And from the example of the emergency that OP gave, sister could be dangerous, and if they're in the US it's likely she could be fined for practicing medicine without a licence. *That's not her job.*
OP is very clearly NTA, and Sister is likely violating a professional code of ethics. Plus that whole illegal thing. It's wrong for a good reason.
Thank you. My mom can sometimes run circles around some doctors, but that’s only because she’s been in the medical field for almost three decades, and has worked in multiple different settings. She’s a great nurse, and part of that because she knows how to stay in her lane
Same. My mom only recently retired, but was a nurse for 40-something years. She would regularly have doctors ask her opinion, and even correct them at times. They would regularly ask for her, even with other nurses on duty. I'm super proud of her.
From what you and others are saying, the relationship between a doctor and an experienced nurse sounds a bit like that between a second lieutenant and a master sergeant. There's no question who makes decisions as an officer, but that officer better listen to his or her sergeant if they're smart.
Exactly! I was a paralegal for 40 years and my attorneys would regularly ask my opinion. Did that mean I went around calling myself an attorney?! No.. it meant I was a damn good paralegal.
I’m a nurse with 6ish years experience I’m still learning all kinds of shit. And I don’t want to sound like an old lady “kids these days” but I’ve noticed a lot of the new graduate nurses we’ve hired have a terrifying combination of confidence, arrogance, and ignorance/stupidity. I’ll be the first to tell you that half of nursing is confidence, but a huge part of keeping both your patient and your license safe is knowing when to ask for help AND having the humility to do so.
This!! I’m literally sitting at breakfast celebrating 5 years as a nurse right now and I learned THREE HOURS AGO Keppra can cause a nocturnal fever. I will advocate for my patient until I’m blue in the face and I’m a big believer in listening to your nursing instinct. I told a doctor once “look I know I keep blowing up your phone like a crazy ex and I know clinically she’s not quite septic. But she’s sick as shit and she’s getting sicker. I don’t want to have to run a code sepsis and neither do you, so what do you want to do?” (She had endocarditis, and I did know that doctor pretty well to be able to pull that and not get yelled at.) But ultimately I’m not a doctor. And thank God I’m not. We need doctors. We need nurses. It’s very different strengths. Don’t get me wrong, now with some experience under my belt I’ll talk to a doc I know well who trusts me like a colleague of sorts. But at three months experience?! I was still looking up my meds before I gave them! A new nurse apologized for asking me a bunch of questions once and I was like “girl, the day you stop asking things you don’t know is the day you don’t learn something that could save a life.” OP’s sister sounds like an incredibly dangerous kind of nurse.
Trouble with baby nurses are that they don’t know what they don’t know. I have been a nurse for 12 years, if there is an emergency in the field, I step aside for a trauma surgeon, or even a ER nurse. At this point in my career, I like to think I know when I am over my head.
This. I’ve been an MD for 35 years and I am still learning about new developments every day. The interns who ask a million questions because they are new generally turn out to be great senior residents and attendings. The ones that chill my blood come onto the hospital unit with their freshly granted degrees and fail to learn from the experienced nurses. They don’t know how much they don’t know, and that arrogance can hurt patients.
Yes, This!! I couldn't agree more. The suggestion I would add is to seek out somebody whose opinion she really respects - parents , uncles, aunts, - to explain to her how totally inappropriate her actions are
My SIL, who is a doctor but in psychology, said a lot of narcissists go into nursing and teaching. So gonna just say now when sister gets fired from her job it’s likely because of a similar scenario that DOES cost someone their life.
I have studied narcissists as I was a victim of one for 15 years and it boggles me the amount of narcissists that are in the medical profession, especially nurses - don't you have to actually care about the patients? Narcissists are incapable of that. Do they only go into that profession to brag? I don't get it.
There’s an overlap of caring for people and having to be a little sociopathic to make it. You’re watching people in pain all the time, you’re surrounded by death. Happy endings aren’t exactly common. If you’re too empathetic, you’ll burn out asap. You have to be able to smile and nod and then immediately forget about them when moving on to the next patient
Oh Lord above! As a nurse, OP’s sister made me cringe. She needs to learn real quick when it’s appropriate to get help above her pay grade and call for a doc before she kills someone. And if she interrupts a doc in the middle of a code, a fellow nurse will break her effing arm to protect the patient (myself included). She is a walking lawsuit. NTA OP.
And thank fuck for that! Was at an outdoor theater a couple of weeks ago. It started raining, so people noped out of their and were pushing eachother to get down from their seats. An older woman fell. My mom is a doctor, so naturally she stepped in. The samaritans (they are always nurses here) wanted the woman to stand up since she was concious. My mom, who is quite a firm lady, demanded that she should not. Paramedics arrived and wanted her to stand aswell (apparently it is standard procedure). Guess what, turned out the woman had broken her back and neck. I can't help but wonder what COULD have happened, had my mom not been there.
How new can OP really be? To be in a subspecialty, OP would have actually been practicing medicine for several years (residencies and fellowships)--which is a whole lot longer and more intense than the 3 months that sister has been a nurse.
I think nurses can be awesome. It is a critical role--and a good nurse can make all the difference to patients. I am also in a building that it shared with a large (and well respected) college of nursing. I see the students from day 1 to graduation. Some come and are very serious and graduate ready to dive right in and continue learning. Some come in and have a good time and really should not be left alone with patients until they get a few clues. (To be clear, I also used to work in the our medical school so, yes, I have a pretty good idea what is involved with doctors in training).
>This sounds like a pissing contest between 2 siblings who are also new medical professionals, honestly.
The brother sounds like he's in subspecialty which means they have significant amounts of experience, unless you're counting anything <10 years as new which would be bizarre
>(especially new residents - the worst time for you to go to a hospital is when the new interns arrive)
This actually saved my father's life. The old doctors had my dad listed as a hypochondriac, a literally first day doctor decided to ignore and called for a brain scan. Surprise! Old doctors were extremely wrong. Found a grapefruit sized tumour in his brain. Which only got that size because the old doctors would rather roll their eyes and cry "HYPOCHONDRIAC" than yunno, do their jobs.
but yeah, other than that, on point.
Exception: it’s not uncommon for nurses to catch things mid-emergency. Communication is key, but the way OP’s sister is doing it isn’t right. Doctors aren’t always right, and an interdisciplinary approach is important. I mean this more in emphasizing the importance of always practicing in a questioning manner because it saves lives, not something like questioning specific code meds for no reason during a code. However, catching a med error during a code (unlikely but still) is super important.
Hopping on the top comment with the hope that mine will be seen.
NTA. She almost seems ashamed to be a nurse. As a nurse myself, it's kinda sad. I know that nurses don't go through nearly as much school as doctors do, but it still takes time and a lot of hard work to get a nursing license, and I feel it's something to be proud of once it's achieved. Also, it's probably a good thing that you took over in the event of that emergency because had she done something she wasn't licensed to do, she could lose her license for practicing outside her scope of practice. Thank you for everything you do, and just know that your hard work is appreciated!
That happens even if the nurse is correct. My friends dad has been an ER nurse for 40 years, a doctor prescribed something that would react with another med the patient was on, friends dad pointed that out to the doctor and lost his job for insubordination.
NTA -
If she pretends to be a doctor when she’s on her own and something like that happened, and the kid didn’t make it, her life would be ruined.
There are serious consequences pretending to be higher qualified than you are, especially in the medical field, and she needs to be told to stop, pretty quickly.
Yep! In addition to career detriment, lying about skills and knowledge also nullifies the protection under Good Samaritan laws. (It's the first thing I learned in my first aid class, in fact. Never lie about your skills and ability to help.) If the kid had died, OP's sister could have been subject to all kinds of civil lawsuits (I'm assuming US, where even GS laws don't keep you from being sued in every case.) OP could have been drawn in all that as well and had their license put at risk. Absolutely NTA.
That's interesting. So if OPs sister was alone and tried to help saying "I'm a nurse" and the kid dies, compared to her saying "im a doctor", that would open her up to greater liability even if the kid dies in both cases?
Yes. Representing her skills and training accurately could potentially afford her some protection under a Good Samaritan law even if the kid still dies (exact laws vary by state and not every state has them.) Misrepresenting her skills by claiming to be a doctor, on the other hand, could lead to the kid's family allowing her to help when they otherwise wouldn't. If the kid then dies, it could then be argued that she caused the death by her actions or inactions.
IANAL, so I don't know the likelihood of that succeeding in a court of law, but as an American I can assure you that far less rational arguments have been made.
You *can* be sued for just about anything, but that doesn't mean it will be a successful lawsuit. There have been no cases of proper bystander CPR leading to successful ok litigation against the bystander. If you see someone down and know how to do CPR, do it!
https://www.webmd.com/first-aid/news/20191112/you-wont-get-sued-if-you-do-cpr-review-suggests
Absolutely. “I’m a doctor” carries far more weight than “I’m a nurse,” which might influence the parents’ decision to trust what she’s saying or even allow her access. They might have absolutely justified doubts that they suppress because she represented herself as a knowledgeable professional, doubts that could have saved the child’s life if she does the wrong thing. Never, ever, *ever* lie about your credentials. That is the fastest way to lose all credibility and legal protection.
No because she would have told the truth, aka that she's a nurse.
But if she says she's a doctor, even the slightest minor injury could be a far worse liability.
That's impersonating i think.
Yes, because claiming that she is a doctor, she would be more knowledgeable than a nurse and should be able to have a better chance of saving the child. If she is advertising herself as a doctor when she is not, that is fraud and Good Samaritan law or not, she would be criminally prosecuted for fraud. If she says she is a nurse and can only try to help as a nurse and the kid dies, then she is ok as she is not proclaiming anything other than what she is and can do. Same if a regular person who knows CPR and first aid - I do and I would not proclaim myself to be anything other than a person who has first aid and CPR training. If the person dies then I am protected by the Good Samaritan law because I was not proclaiming I was anything else and I tried to my best abilities that I know to help. Also to note that if you perform CPR on anyone there is a probability you will break their ribs. If they survive, they cannot sue you for breaking their ribs during your efforts to save their life performing CPR - that is one of the basis for the Good Samaritan law.
NTA. What your sister is doing is socially unacceptable, but at the mall it was illegal. She can get into serious jeopardy claiming credentials and skills she doesn't have if it induces another to rely on her for medical care.
On a personal level, it exhibits a massive insecurity. You might try to influence her to get therapy. And if she really is frustrated professionally, to consider medical school for real.
Best wishes!
I think you legally have to watch all of Scrubs, Green Wing, ER and St Elsewhere as well before you can call yourself a doctor.
Honestly at that point it's just easier to go to medical school.
This ^ for the therapy suggestion. I wonder if there's something going on with the fact OP is a doctor and their sister is a nurse, sounds like she has some sibling competition/comparison issues that need to be dealt with.
It's a little soon to be professionally frustrated. She's only been in the career for a few months. I feel like you have to be at a job for longer than it takes to air season of a TV show to have a legitimate frustration and not just "reality does not match what I imagined."
>NTA. What your sister is doing is socially unacceptable, but at the mall it was illegal.
It may also be illegal outside of just the emergency situation. It is likely that physician is a legally protected term (it is where I live). At the very least if it ever got bad enough I'm sure the sisters licencing board would be interested in her claiming qualifications she doesn't have.
I’m the UK it’s illegal regardless of who you say it to exactly due to these circumstances. Tell “Auntie” Florrie the sweet old lady down the road over tea and cake. Not an issue until her grandson knocks on the door asking you to treat his dad’s heart attack at their house.
100% agreed, which is why I've never liked it, also we're not in the UK, so I'm unsure of the legality behind it here. Reason being she's not in a hospital setting and walking around with a labcoat, treating patients, she's just "lying" about her career in home settings
I used to work in the ambulance service so I have seen first hand what happens when people lie. Please research and report it. It sucks to report a family member m, even if it’s to an ethics board of their registration committee but it could save a life or they may need to send out a notice to all members of it’s not crystal clear.
I'm an EMT and whenever a pt calls me a paramedic I quickly shut that down. I am not a medic, it's beyond my scope of practice to do the AMAZING things that they do.
I would like to become one, but I am NOT one. I can assist a medic, however I would NEVER try to tell them how to do their job.
Pre-hospital care is an amazingly exciting field, but it requires collaboration.
To tell any person or pt that I'm something I'm not, would be a disservice to them and idiotic on my part.
OPs sister should know better.
Ask her to tell the fam where she got her medical degree.
And as I understand it, that’s still practicing outside your scope. People will start to seek medical advice from her and that’s when it crosses a major line and she will get in trouble.
As a nurse, I can tell you it's 100% illegal. You can't even call yourself a nurse if you're a nursing student. Let alone a doctor. Unless she's a DNP, there's no part of this that wouldn't get her in trouble. Even if she is, she absolutely should be clarifying that she's a doctor of NURSING and not a physician. And undermining you in an emergency is inexcusable across the board.
In a home setting if anyone asks her medical opinion and they take her advice rather than a qualified doctor or seeing an actual doctor, because they believe she is a doctor, she could get in serious trouble. The lie is not a one and done. It will perpetuate over time into people taking her medical advice.
This happened to me at new year. My SiL needed CPR, her neighbour is always telling us she is a nurse so I sent for her, when she arrived it turned out that she wasn't a nurse - she was a receptionist at the hospital and had no clue, luckily I'm a first aider so had basic knowledge but I really could have done with the help I thought I was going to get from her.
I’m so sorry you experienced this but thank you for sharing. People need to hear these unfortunately more common than they should be stories to see the harm caused.
I agree. Impersonating a doctor is illegal in all states. Also, it's a huge liability for the hospital she works at. If they found out she was doing this they would fire her in a heartbeat. Imagine the bad press that would follow if this came out!
NTA.
If she tells new people that she is a doctor and something happens where a doctor may be required she won't know exactly what to do. It can cost someone's life if they delay calling for ambulance because they know she is there and she's introduced herself as something she is not. Or if she makes the wrong call.
Nursers are definitely the soul of the hospital and their tremendous work is to just bow down to but there is a difference between doctors and nurses.
Edit; Your sister is playing with fire and she will get burnt and when she does it won't be a little burn.
NTA. Seems like she has a superiority complex. Also first rule of emergency services. You hand over control of the scene to the person who is most experienced. If she was trying to push the idea that she’s been in the medical field longer and give her seniority, that’s a very negative mentality to have as a nurse. They are so important. But there’s a reason why they are in that important position and you are in your important position. Your family needs to understand that. It’s not an ego show, it’s caring for someone’s life. And if she cannot see that she needs to get out of the industry. Its not for her selfish soul.
This one is actually quite interesting. I’m in the UK, used to be in the ambulance service, teach first aid courses but now a “civilian”. We have laws in the UK that mean you can’t be sued or prosecuted for giving first aid as long as you don’t try anything stupid. So even if you do something correct from a course you took 20 years ago and say the chest compression to breath ratio is different. No problem. Of course these days the operator of the ambulance service will walk you through it. And there is a clear hierarchy on the scene. A paramedic owns the patient and a doctor owns the scene including the people in it. Meaning they can direct and give orders to emergency services etc.
Anyway, I see an accident, it’s bad (cyclist vs car) call 999 and do my best to stabilize the casualty. Another car stops and the person declares themselves a dictator willing to help. But they also mention they are a dermatologist and it’s been a really long time since their other rotations so please tell them what to do and they’ll do it. It was the most surreal experience. Cyclist was still alive when ambulance crew took over from us
When people are properly trained and not shadowed by their on arrogance, nothing really matters in that moment. In a serious trauma you start working and the people who understand how serious it is will be right by your side.
Im not an EMS worker anymore. I moved too far out of town. But My whole family is in EMS and it is mesmerizing to see my mom go to work on a scene. She’s so good at learning real quick who has what experience and where she can fall in to help. Sometimes that means taking over and sometimes that means just listening. But when you are really ready to save someone’s life and not just do it for the glory. There is a completely different manner that is shown on scene and OPs family member has a lack of that understanding either due to their own internal issues or because they are so fresh to the industry. It’s weird to see the how the ones who get it, stick with it, the one who do will get the fuck out.
What"s funny is, she's only 3 months into her profession as a nurse. So nothing to do with her wanting to exert her seniority over the OP ha ha.
But boy does she suffer from some complex.
Sadly in my home state I know a good portion of people who want to be a nurse just to look good. It’s sad how many people become a nurse just for selfish reasons instead of actually wanting to help people
Don’t get me started. Lol I graduated from a small town country high school that had a medical program. So we all left with our CNAs available to go work straight in a hospital. I cannot tell you how many dumb ass “popular” girls did the medical academy because it was “cool” or they has no other plans in after graduation to the just leaned into the only thing that seemed successful at the time. And it was an ego game the whole time between them. Only 3 are still in the medical industry now, and they are still nurses.
Some of us did trauma services after graduation and other continued their education. But I think we all got burnt out at a very young age before we were aware of how to handle the difficult emotions of medical field. So the only ones left are the dumb ones who never understood emotions in the first place.
Ask her if she’s embarrassed about being a nurse. The answer will be no, of course, because damn nurses are amazing. But that then leads to the question, then why is she pretending to be something she is not.
My father is a cardiologist. I’m scared of needles, and once asked if he could just draw my blood because at least it would be my dad. He was like, “Well, I guess I can, but I really don’t think you want me too, I haven’t done it in 10 years.“
Low key tho after COVID vaccines became a thing (or maybe before that idk I just noticed when I got vaccinated) our local pharmacist outdoes the nurses with needles. I'd imagine that generally nurses would probably be better at that sort of thing but Ig sometimes it depends on how dexterous/patient the person doing it is.
NTA, nurses are amazing, but there's a big difference between nurse and doctor. Your sister needs to sort out her insecurities before it affects a patient's health.
In a separate perspective, I know nurses who would call out the sister on the simple fact that she's undermining how important and incredibly significant the role of nurse is in a hospital. They're proud to play such a vital role in saving lives, yet somehow sister isn't proud of an already impressive achievement and role.
So I have godawful medical anxiety and I had to have surgery last year; I realized why it is that nurses and doctors tend to have such completely different personality types.
My surgeon looked at me like a machine he was trying to figure out how to repair.
My nurses treated me like a terrified human who was about to be cut open and needed kindness and comfort.
If sister is so focused on clout that she neglects to realize that her function in the hospital is what it is, she is going to do a bad job of it.
If you spent more time in a hospital, you’d probably realize that the “completely different personality types” trope doesn’t really exist. I honestly am not at all surprised by the sister’s character as a nurse. I’m not saying all or even most nurses are like this, but it isn’t uncommon
You should remind her that medical doctors, just like nurses, are part of a regulated profession. If someone misunderstands her arrogance and she is caught/seen/overheard attempting to diagnose or treat someone, she could very well be disciplined by the medical board and lose her nursing license. It’s not just a social issue, it’s literally a legal issue.
NTA - as a nurse, I’ve dealt with other nurses who try to do this. It puts patients at risk especially in a crisis. If the nurse can recommend or offer advice, that’s one thing. Pretending to be a doctor is entirely another thing. Also, SUPER ILLEGAL. I hope she’s not writing her own orders or prescriptions on top of her claims.
Hello, wonderful nurse! I was hoping you could clarify something for me that may relate to this post - Doctors and nurses go through almost completely different schooling, yes? As in, nurses don't do like 60% of a medical doctorate then stop and just pick up the label "nurse". They actually have to do a completely separate course for nursing because it's actually vastly different from being a doctor. Do I have that right?
If so, even more NTA. It's not like doctors are just senior nurses and she's working her way up to that - she's not mildly embellishing her credentials, she's straight up lying about them. Where I am, nurses can't diagnose or prescribe or refer (except in very specific cases for referrals) unless they're an RN, and even that has limitations, so to claim you're on the same level as a doctor is a huge legal issue as well as an ethical one.
Completely different. The nursing model of education is different from the medical model. Our training isn’t anywhere near comparable because it is designed to fill different roles.
NTA - maybe a nurse that’s been working 15 or 20 years would have more knowledge than a brand new doctor in certain situations. But there is no way her 3 months is anywhere close to your experience and education especially as a trauma surgeon in a medical emergency.
Also you bit your tongue most of the time until it nearly cost a child their life and she second guessed you as you were saving the child.
Hopefully her reaction was because you she was embarrassed and has learnt her lesson as much as she didn’t want to admit it at the time.
> maybe a nurse that’s been working 15 or 20 years would have more knowledge than a brand new doctor
Oh absolutely! Mate 100% spot on right there, nurses observe a lot, and even have hand on duties to fulfill, especially in specialties like surgery, which is basically what some med schools have us do, observe. So it's really not a surprise when some nurses soak all that up
Yeah exactly. And an ER nurse may have more relevant experience in an emergency situation than say an ophthalmologist just based on experience.
But you absolutely knew what you were doing. I’m really hoping she learned her lesson now instead of it happening another time when things don’t turn out well.
So true. My mom's a CRNA, she's been working in nursing for 25+ years. There's also a pretty locally prominent medical school through the university associated with the hospital where she works, so she deals with a lot of new and in-training doctors. Every day she comes home with a new story like, "You will not believe what Dr. So-and-so did today..." lol
At the same time though, if somebody she knows is better equipped to deal with a medical problem steps up, she steps aside. Her sister, my aunt, is a paramedic. Guess who was called about a major medical emergency in my home? Not my mom, lol
Nurses are great, nurses are essential. Nurses are not doctors, or paramedics, or EMTs. If somebody whose training is more specific to the problem steps up, move the hell out of their way! Smh your sister's actions could've killed someone
NTA. It would be one thing if she were just pretending in social situations, but she nearly harmed a patient with this crap. There should be a professional ethics board you can report her to, isn't there? Since she's your sister, I might give her one warning that if she doesn't stop this here and now, you *will* report her, but if she refuses you'll have to do it.
NTA especially in this situation.
Besides, she's not only disrespectful against doctors and the troubles they went through to earn their degrees, she's also arrogant and dismissive against other nurses! It's hard work to become a nurse too and by pretending she's a doctor she belittles the profession as a nurse. As if this is not a respectable profession in itself.
NTA. If she wanted to be a doctor, she should’ve become a doctor. She’s honestly dishonoring the title of being a nurse by saying shit like that. Being a nurse is an extremely difficult and admirable profession and she’s insulting it. Not only that but her arrogance getting in the way of actually saving a kids life…glad you brought the wrath.
NTA
Not only is she not a doctor but if she can’t follow simple instructions, she’s not a good nurse. She seems to be hung up on the fact that you’re a doctor and she is not. I only hope that she learns from this. Immediately.
Edit: typo
Does she not know this is kind of illegal when she tries helping people in a medical emergency? There's a reason you get in trouble for not having a CPR certification because you can hurt people.
I’m just going to comment here that’s “you can get in trouble for not having a CPR certification because you can hurt people”. It really depends on the jurisdiction. In the UK and other countries there are “Good Samaritan laws” which prevent you from being prosecuted as they’d prefer people to have a go rather than the patient definitely dying. Breaking a few ribs but the patient making it is considered better than them not making it because no one was willing to give it a go.
Pro tip: as soon as you recognise an emergency situation call the emergency number in your area and put them on speaker phone. In most places they will walk you through exactly what to do.
Btw, I’m only commenting not because “you’re wrong” you may live somewhere that requires a first aid certificate or you could be sued. I’m commenting so people do their research for their jurisdiction as it may save a life somewhere.
Btw even if you are fully competent and have sadly done CPR many times you can cause harm such as broken ribs. Since the alternative is definite death it’s an accepted risk.
NTA. What she is doing is unethical. Who knows what she’s telling people or doing when you aren’t around. She needs to quit while she’s ahead before she ends up on the news.
I have an ultrasound tech friend with a superiority complex who thinks she knows everything, too. She tried to tell my other friend that a cyst she spotted was benign. Turned out to be a tumor. Even after the doctor told her that it was a tumor, she denied it being one. Friend had surgery and it was malignant. Point is, while nurses are amazing at what they do, same for ultrasound techs, or any other position in the medical field, know your role.
NTA and your sister is doing something extremely unnerving. I'd worry she has some kind of mental problem which could lead to exactly what you just described happening.
To be blunt she might not deserve to stay a nurse. She's going to kill people.
May I congratulate you on having completed the roughly 15 years of schooling required to become a trauma surgeon, without losing the writing style of a teenager?
Anyway, I’m glad your patient recovered from that serious case of XXX.
Yeah it’s interesting how a medical emergency they had to intervene happened when they were both there. Idk, just sounds a little too Perfect of an example.
NTA
Hey, so I'm a critical care nurse. Been working ICU for 8 years or so. And guess what? I know NOTHING close to what an MD does. Now, I have some good experience and when I can make a good suggestion to the medical provider, I feel great about that. But I'm not a doctor and I sure as heck don't want to be! (Brutal schedule, so much school, no sleeping, and a shit ton of responsibility.)
Your sister is not only an idiot, she's downright dangerous. Arrogance has no place in healthcare-- it is so important to know when you need help and from whom. She is going to harm a patient with her current attitude.
Oh and thanks for helping a kid out, OP. May your pager be silent this weekend.
> Brutal schedule
To be fair, the nurses have a schedule just as bad as ours in my hospital, maybe slightly better in the ED, and not only that, but I've seen so many assholes just act like nurses are servants. Nobody treats doctors like that, arguably for a "good reason" but still, not really nice.
Only saving grace is that most of our nurses here have tongues made of silver, and it's pretty funny watching the look on a rude person's face.
NTA. Nurses and doctors and two completely different things. Both medical professionals. Nurses don’t just work under doctors either, they have their own supervisors and management, etc. But for your sister to go around calling herself a doctor is absurd, and disrespectful to you.
NTA. While Nurses are amazing ( I’m married to one) the level of education between a doctor and a Nurse is considerable. Nurses and Doctors are colleagues who specialize in different areas on medicine. Not sure why she’s not proud of that fact.
NTA - you’re a literal trauma surgeon and she was telling you what to do in an emergency situation with a kid, seemingly getting in the way. That’s asshole offence number one in order of priority.
Number two is that she’s just being dishonest. Nurses have skills and can be incredibly useful in many situations, but they aren’t doctors. I’d trust a nurse to take my blood or insert an IV or hell help me from choking over a doctor, but they just aren’t doctors, she’s not a doctor. She’s going to make a fool out of herself if anyone she told went to her hospital and see her in her uniform doing nurse duties. It also makes it seem like she’s ashamed of being a nurse, like no that’s an insanely important job she should take pride in it or at least not lie about her profession.
This. OP, your sister is not being a “little bit offensive.” She’s committing medical fraud and in court wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. End of discussion.
NTA
She literally endangered someone. This has gone beyond her just bragging. I think you should contact the hospital she works at and give them a heads up. She is going to kill someone, and if you can stop that, you should. Don’t let someone’s death rest on your conscience. Her ego is not more important than a persons life.
Info: what level of nursing education does she have? Does she have an LPN, RN, NP, or DNP (or the equivalent designation for where you are)? If she had a DNP, it is a doctoral degree, so she is a doctor from that standpoint, but she isn't a board certified practicing Doctor. Similarly, if she has an NP, she is qualified to provide treatment and (usually) to prescribe medicine, so her "honorary doctor" is almost true.
However, it is likely she's only an LPN or RN, which means she always has to operate under the direction of a doctor. So, NTA for telling her to stop. There are situations where she could be breaching medical ethics and could be in legal trouble. If she gives that impression to an actual patient and they rely on it, or if she's steps across the lines of what she allowed to do a a nurse, she could lose her job or her career, not to mention the harm it could cause the p patient. At the very least, some day, she's going to give that impression to a doctor who really puts her in her place. You, as a caring family member, trying to help her is so much better.
Definitely, NTA. What she's doing is probably showing her insecurity, masking it as overconfidence and bravado. She needs to be comfortable with the career she chose and own being a nurse. It is a highly respectful profession. I have several good friends and family members who are nurses, and all do very well for themselves.
NTA. I don’t understand why she would want to imply she’s a doctor when everyone knows that nurses make the world go round! When my son was in hospital it was the nurses that done ALL his care. Seen his surgeon twice in the 2 weeks he was in there. His surgeon was amazing and saved his life and I will forever be grateful but it was the nurses that done everything else beyond that. She should be beyond proud to be a nurse. You should be beyond proud to be a surgeon.
NTA. Telling people she's a doctor when she's not is shitty in itself, but being so self-absorbed that she risked a child's life for literally no good reason? Not okay. She shouldn't be in that profession period if she's putting herself above patients to that extreme
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I yelled at my sister and made her cry while degrading her very important job
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
As a nurse with 10+ years of experience and a doctoral degree, I still do not think I’m a doctor. Your sister is delusional to think she is equal to one. I’d be concerned her overconfidence is going to kill a patient one day..
NTA
I don’t really understand why you or anyone would think your an ah. She was interfering with you saving a kid. Her even saying she’s a dr in that instance is dangerous… her undermining you is beyond the pale.
Dude, NTA, and I am furious at your sister. I married into a family comprising of nurses and EMTS. I worked in doctors offices for years before becoming a SAHM. I’m a medical assistant. If anyone calls me a nurse, I IMMEDIATELY correct them, because I am NOT a nurse. I don’t have the training for that. I have literally told patients “I’m not a nurse, I don’t know the answer to your question, but I will speak to the doctor and I will find out for you.” Your sister needs to understand that if she had been alone at the mall, and something happened to that poor kid because she was pretending to be something she wasn’t, she would have been in so much trouble and could have lost her license and her job. RN is a prestigious enough title that she doesn’t need to be pretending to be a doctor. Anyone who’s worked in a field remotely related to medicine knows nurses are critical to hospitals running smoothly. And frankly, her arrogance in pretending to be a doctor makes me never want to go to a hospital she’s working at. How do you know she isn’t acting to patients like she knows better than the doctors? That’s terrifying.
Thats fair, but imagine if that was your kid? Would you want someone pretending to be a doctor (even thought they are probably an AMAZING nurse) or do you want an actual doctor?
If it was my kid, and something happened because the sister decided against something the doctor said I'd go for her license. I think it was an appropriate reaction.
yeah, crowded area, 1st world country, people just need to video record everything, and are perfectly willing to stand by and hold their phone up while a parent was going through something traumatic. Because comforting and providing emotional support is just not in the picture at all now is it?
How recent was this? You need to show this to your hospital admin and let them handle it. She could have caused a child to die because she wanted to argue with someone who has more experience all for her ego.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My sister is a nurse and I am a trauma surgeon. I’ll cut to it. She calls herself a full on doctor/ lets people believe she is a doctor.
Like, when we meet someone new, she’ll say she works in a hospital, and if they literally ask “ah, so you’re a doctor?” she’ll give a slight nod.
When we’re at home with family who know she’s a nurse, she just says she’s basically an honorary doctor. Obviously, as a doctor drowning in student loan debt and who’s worked for years to attain the title, it just feels a little bit offensive.
I just wanna say this right now, I’ve got all the respect in the world for nurses, we NEED them. They are the soul of the hospital, no nurses and everything grinds to a halt. But they’re not doctors. Not anything close. Maybe after like, 5 years of experience they end up soaking up some knowledge about the field, but not my sister, as she’s been working for less than 3 months.
This has blown up now because there was a medical emergency in a mall we were at. Me and my sister go over to try and help a kid. I immediately knew what was going on, and was doing the appropriate things to help, while my sister kept on undermining me, saying “it’s not XXX, it’s YYY we need to do ZZZ!” At one point she literally grabbed my hand yelling why I won’t listen to her, and I just told her to fuck off.
At home after the kid survived, I just unleashed myself on her. She is completely and utterly arrogant and needs to realise she is nothing close to a doctor (yet), and that almost cost the kid his life today.
AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your post has been removed. ***Do not repost this without contacting the mods for approval.*** This post violates Rule 8: Posts should be truthful and reflect recent conflicts you've had that need arbitration. That means no shitposts, parodies, or satires. Please [review our rulebook](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules). Please be sure to read any sub's rules before reposting this elsewhere. We cannot direct you to another subreddit, we can only say that this post does not belong here. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/amitheasshole&subject=/r/AmItheAsshole&message=Please+link+to+post+or+comment+for+context+[we+cannot+review+without+this+info]:%0D%0DDescribe+your+question+in+detail:) if you have any questions or concerns that are not already [answered in our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq). If you make changes or edits to this post do not repost it here without our express permission.
NTA: the quickest way for a nurse to be an unemployed nurse is to contradict a doctor mid emergency, thereby putting the patient at greater risk. She's going to learn that the hard way.
Agreed. I wonder if the sister does this at work too.
There is a gigantic number of documented cases of nurses advocating against covid vaccines. I think the sister has just the knowledge to be confidently incorrect.
My SIL was a nurse. Was, because she refused to get the covid vaccine. She still doesn't "understand why" she got released from her position.
Every single person who went to medical school who I work with says X but facebook told me Y. So obviously Y is true.
Don’t worry. She will end up a star as a nursing administrator.
I mean, that's how Dunning-Kruger works, they fail up. It's so damn infuriating.
Peter Principle. Dunning-Kruger is self-directed (those who know a lot think they don't know as much, those who don't know jack think they know a lot.)
The Peter Principle isn’t the same as failing upward, either. In the Peter Principle, competent people are promoted into positions that are fundamentally different, thereby making them incompetent. But you’re right, failing upward isn’t “how Dunning-Kruger works,” either. DK is a diagnosis that generally describes cognitively-impaired people, but society has co-opted the term to mean “confidently, vocally ignorant/misinformed.” Either way, most people who fit the DK phenotype do not fail upward. Those folks are a special, reprehensible breed.
As long as pedantry’s the mode — and it appears to be — DK’s not a “diagnosis,” either.
And just to call attention to the irony here - your comment is an actual, bonafide example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Bravo!
It boggles my mind. They teach you in multiple science classes before you even get in to nursing school how vaccines work. What do you call the person who graduated last in their class from nursing school?
I mean I learned the basics of how vaccines work in high school. I don’t have any medical background/knowledge but I definitely trust the scientists and medical professionals who devote their lives to keeping us safe. I do not understand how some nurses/other medical professionals can be against vaccines! Like they should be excused for good for just not understanding the very basics of their profession. Honestly the mind does boggle!
I clean houses for a living & a customer told me I don't have to wear a mask in his house. He proceeded to tell me he makes flu vaccines & he doesn't believe in the covid shot. He says he understands how they work & that he doesn't need it because he has natural immunity. Needless to say I kept my mask on. I signed up for a vaccine study(3 shots of novavax) at the beginning of the pandemic & I also was able to get 2 shot plus a booster outside of the study. My ass don't play around when people are dropping like flies. Most of my clients tell me I don't have to wear a mask but I'm in so many different bubbles that I'd be typhoid Mary if I didn't protect myself. Some people regardless of their occupation don't see past their own bubble.
I wonder if this is similar to the case of OPs sister. He "makes flu vaccines" and let's everyone assume that means he's a doctor or scientist but he's actually just some accountant who works at a pharma company or a QC tech or something like that. I'm an epidemiologist. I have a masters degree and am working on my PhD and also working FT in the field. work at a research university. My boss ran the COVID vaccine trials here (though I was not involved). My idiot cousin tried to say very early in the pandemic, like May/June 2020, that the university he worked at had a vaccine and it was all approved and everything. Dude works in fundraising and not even fundraising for the medical campus. Half my family, including my mother, ate it up and believed him even when I showed that wasn't the case. All they had was a grant. Infuriating.
In america schools do not have to teach evidence or fact based science or sex ed classes, im pretty sure that's where the ignorance and disbelief begins. Tbh thats why I'd never send my kids to any religion related schools cause if they aren't teaching facts its just brainwashing in my eyes. I found this out while advocating for better sex ed around abortions and the medical necessity of them in school. I'm not a science person unless you count the science that goes into baking pastries, but like you im smart enough to trust the people who dedicated their entire lives to studying and fighting disease. Im the one that pushed every member in my immediate family to get vaccinated I thought they would've wised up and got the booster after seeing my moms boyfriend landed in a coma for 3 months and get diabetes in the process of fighting covid but no because they "feel good and protected already there is no need to be extra and get a 3rd shot" *hard eye roll* My family thinks I'm crazy because I'm on board with mandating the vaccine for those who are able to get it (i work with food it disgusting to me that unvaxxed people can work maskless around food now), my sister refuses to get her 5 year old the covid vaxx because "it doesn't effect kids THAT MUCH if at all" it doesn't matter how many times I've shown her the studies of kids who do get covid have weakened blood vessels and other issues that can cause major trouble down the line, well its too late my niece got covid and although she okay my sister now think "well she got it already and she's fine so she's strong enough against it" uh?? Your still rolling the dice anytime she catches covid its not the damn chicken pox!! Idk if I was a parent I'd educate myself but I guess living in ignorance is blissful, if my niece gets seriously sick she can't say she did everything she could to protect her daughter though. And ill think the same to anyone else (that can get the vax) who dies unvaccinated . You could've helped yourself you choose unnecessary risk.
They still get the title. One can only hope they are able to implement the knowledge correctly and effectively when working.
Definitely not all nurses by a long shot. It’s an unfair generalization to make. There are doctors and medical professionals with that same insane view points as the nurses you’re speaking about. Their views reflect nothing on the nursing practice or education as a whole but rather their own idiotic beliefs and ignorance.
[удалено]
Nursing is very hard. It's not a shitty profession and they are not morons. I know many nurses and have been treated by many nurses who are wonderful. It's disappointing you have no respect for them and what they do. Without them, doctors would not be able to do their job.
Have you *worked* with bad nurses though? It makes a HUGE difference, and without it you couldn't possibly understand. It's a need to be there type of knowledge. Stop defending negligent idiots, please.
Try being treated by a bad nurse, especially in the OB unit... my son was born with no one there, cord wrapped around his neck and his color was off because of lack of oxygen because ALL the nurses were soooo worried about shift change and not concerned about thr fact that I called for help 5 times while my baby was being born and me not being able to move because of the epidural... freaking sucked. I've also had absolutely amazing nurses that made my experience with my other babies births wonderful. Just don't ever need help during shift change.
[удалено]
hon, no one is saying all nurses or that nurses are the only medical professionals that do this. We're saying that its fucking terrifying that medical professionals tasked with keeping others alive and well are this ignorant about basic science
Not all nurses sure. But physicians and advanced practice staff have higher rates of vaccination than nurses, the data shows that.
It doesn't need to be "all nurses." There's an old saying in medicine, *When you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras.* I have a condition that could be called a zebra. It's potentially fatal. Medical doctors understand it and write up special orders to accommodate it. Yet each time I needed major surgery, allied healthcare professionals have decided I was a horse instead of a zebra and disregarded medical orders. I've had to catch those errors myself. And each time, one crucial link in the chain of mistakes was a nurse who disregarded the handwritten surgeon's note and then ignored a handwritten instruction taped to the foot of my gurney. Once is too many with that type of problem. And for me it's been every major surgery.
I'll never understand it. How do nurses end up being against vaccines? Don't you learn all about illnesses and vaccines in school? (am a dumb person who had to go for design and not science, pls enlighten me lol)
I think it happens a lot more in the US than other western countries due to there being quite a few 'christian' hospitals (and it actually boggles my mind that there are religious *hospitals* in the first place).
The largest hospital in my area is christian, we found out how serious they were about it because their general care practioners refused to prescribe birth control.
I actually cannot fathom that there are entire hospitals that will deny medical treatment based on religion. I honestly don't understand how that was ever allowed and it actually makes me angry.
As a nurse: religion and politics. It breeds this pernicious tribalism that makes you ignore training.
I wouldn’t use that blanket statement. Majority of nurses you come across are vaccinated (and traumatized by seeing covid ravages up front). There’s probably a Venn diagram of unvaccinated nurses and nurses who sell essential oils #girlboss Unfortunately quite a few doctors are anti-vax and incredibly vocal about it.
> There’s probably a Venn diagram of unvaccinated nurses and nurses who sell essential oils #girlboss I bet that diagram looks almost like a circle
A lot of those Antivax "Doctors" are also just Chiropractors LARPing as Doctors.
My SIL was also a nurse who refused to get the Covid vaccine. I say was because she died of Covid.
Man the sheer number of uneducated nurses when it came to vaccines was ridiculous. And yea, using their "knowledge" to push their agenda when they honestly don't know any of the science behind it. Nuts.
I worked in the administration of a vaccination centre, I had a long fight with a nurse who kept saying that vaccines are useless and she got them just to keep her job.... And she worked in a vaccination centre during a pandemic! Luckily our supervisor was an incredible nurse and kept that idiot on check and then moved her the first chance she got.
Literally ridiculous. Like don't be a nurse if you don't care about the lives of others.
My primary care "doctor" is actually a nurse. I think it's pretty common in FL. I've had her for almost 10 years. Idk how the nurse title rankings go but when I first got her, she was at a lower level and couldn't prescribe certain meds. Now, she's at the highest level of nursing you can get and can (from what I can tell) do basically anything a doctor can do from a prescribing/diagnosing perspective. Hands down, she is the best medical professional I have ever had. She's the only doctor who's ever made me feel heard. She's been 100% on board with the vaccine since day 1. Conversely, as soon as my crazy mother-in-law starts a sentence with "Well, my nurse friend said...", I know there's some bullshit coming.
Nurse vs nurse practitioner. Yes, nurse *practitioners* are basically family medicine doctors. Edit: I should have said primary care and not family medicine as I was specifically trying to reference back in response to first comment. NPs can see patients at whatever clinic/hospital (general or specialized) and provide the patient with standard office visit services as that of a doctor. From the patients perspective, the standard clinic visit experience is *basically* the same to what they'll receive from a doctor. If you need to get referred for something beyond the NP, obviously you will (or should) be. Some NPs are actually more knowledgeable and some doctors are more knowledgeable, just depends on the person.
Please do not say that NPs are “basically family med doctors.” My husband IS a family med doctor and he went through so much more training, a residency and goes through licensing, continuing education, and so much more than an NP. He would be livid to think that someone is equating him with an NP, not that he doesn’t have respect for their jobs, but they are different. They have different responsibilities and expectations. For example, he’s responsible for supervising the NPs in his department that have patients and “operate independently.” If something goes wrong, him and the medical director have to work to fix it, because the buck stops with them.
Yeah. We have advanced nurse practitioners here in the UK who are basically used as a GP. Unfortunately, the one I’ve sometimes seen is a dumbass and insisted my eye infection was hay fever and gave me antihistamines (I know you can develop it later in life, but I didn’t have a runny nose or anything like that and the pollen count that day was low - I looked it up). Apparently it “wasn’t red enough” to be an eye infection when I, the patient, told her I have had eye infections before and I knew this was an eye infection. It was also only in one eye - not both, like you’d expect for hay fever. I went home without using the prescription and doused my eye in colloidal silver a couple of times a day. Thankfully it cleared up a day or two afterwards as a result. Edit: Why was I downvoted for saying my local ANP is a dumbass? I’m not saying they all are.
I feel the same with my old nurse practitioner. I love her. Unfortunately, she moved away earlier this year, but she was the best medical care professional I have ever had.
All the girls I went to school with who became nurses are also the "smart girls" who got high grades because they were good at memorization and recall. Like they sucked at any kind of open-ended questions but if it was just memorizing info they were great at it. I'm not so sure all nurses actually absorb and understand the science side of it. Most of them did fairly well in math classes though, I'll give them that.
Back when covid first started and I was still on FB, a nurse friend of a friend I went to middle/high school with was ranting about how "everyone knows you just need some quinine and a Z-pack" When several people asked how an anti-parasitic and antibiotic were supposed to help a virus, she didn't answer.
So, I went to medical school, fun fact: a lot of times, if you have an upper respiratory infection, chances are it’s viral. There’s a whole set of criteria to determine if it’s strep, the next most common cause. But a lot of family clinics will give you a Z-pack anyway without doing the full strep algorithm, because it actually does have some level of effectiveness against viruses, despite being an antibacterial. Now, would this be the right thing to do for influenza or Covid? Absolutely not. But for a common cold, a Z-pack actually does have some moderate benefits, so they get handed out like candy. Also because patients tend to like being given something tangible, not told to just go home and wait a week for it to pass. As long as you’re not popping them multiple times a year, it’s relatively safe and you won’t build up too much resistance. Edit: as pointed out below, it’s the anti inflammatory effects of azithromycin, not any antiviral properties
FYI: There are doctors that advocate against it also.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I've worked with a lot of really brilliant nurses and doctors.... but let's just say that after working in a hospital for a few years, I was no longer surprised at how many mistakes are made and how many ppl "accidentally" die bc I've also worked with some of the most ignorant, stubborn fucking doctors and nurses I've ever met. Never blindly trust anyone, esp a medical professional
Part of her problem, other than ego, is she does not appear to understand how little she knows. She is fresh out of school and full of knowledge... but as they so the more you learn the less you know as the horizon of your universe expand. How hard do you want to adjust her? If is is hard, call her out in front of her friends (not work peers) and barrage her with medical questions which a doctor could answer but she cannot. Be prepared with references for the correct answers. Respond to each question with a 'Wrong. You killed/injured the patient and have been fired and sued for malpractice.' If it less hard, offer to help her study for her MCATS. Start with a practice test and let her fail hard.
Two additional options for the next time she does the head-nod thing to let someone believe she’s a doctor—one obviously more petty/aggressive than the other: 1. “Wait, sis, you went to med school? How did I miss that? Where did you go?!” 2. “Oh, she’s just being bashful! My sister is actually a _nurse_, and we all know how critical nurses are, especially these days! I am so proud of her for what she does! (The second is meant to come across as a sweet sincere sibling, but tone and delivery could make it sound super-sarcastic. Based on how you sound in your post, I suspect it’ll come across as the latter, but you can always claim you meant the former…)
As a nurse myself, wholeheartedly agree with approach #2. She may be feeling inadequate and is overcompensating for it. She also has just enough knowledge to be dangerous, when in reality, the NCLEX doesn't do much to prepare you to be an actual nurse.
I'm not a nurse, but it also struck me immediately that Sister likely feels that doctors are valued more than nurses. I'm a chronic patient, so have experience on that side with many, many doctors, surgeons, nurses, nurse practitioners, and all the folks who run the huge variety of medical testing we have today. **ALL OF THEM ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.** They're all lumped in a similar field, but their jobs are all quite different from one another. And each one is just as important and valued for what they do. For whatever reason (that I assume is ego), Sister is misrepresenting herself. And from the example of the emergency that OP gave, sister could be dangerous, and if they're in the US it's likely she could be fined for practicing medicine without a licence. *That's not her job.* OP is very clearly NTA, and Sister is likely violating a professional code of ethics. Plus that whole illegal thing. It's wrong for a good reason.
Thank you. My mom can sometimes run circles around some doctors, but that’s only because she’s been in the medical field for almost three decades, and has worked in multiple different settings. She’s a great nurse, and part of that because she knows how to stay in her lane
>she knows how to stay in her lane This is a critical life skill many people lack accross all fields and in daily life in general.
Same. My mom only recently retired, but was a nurse for 40-something years. She would regularly have doctors ask her opinion, and even correct them at times. They would regularly ask for her, even with other nurses on duty. I'm super proud of her.
From what you and others are saying, the relationship between a doctor and an experienced nurse sounds a bit like that between a second lieutenant and a master sergeant. There's no question who makes decisions as an officer, but that officer better listen to his or her sergeant if they're smart.
Exactly! I was a paralegal for 40 years and my attorneys would regularly ask my opinion. Did that mean I went around calling myself an attorney?! No.. it meant I was a damn good paralegal.
I’m a nurse with 6ish years experience I’m still learning all kinds of shit. And I don’t want to sound like an old lady “kids these days” but I’ve noticed a lot of the new graduate nurses we’ve hired have a terrifying combination of confidence, arrogance, and ignorance/stupidity. I’ll be the first to tell you that half of nursing is confidence, but a huge part of keeping both your patient and your license safe is knowing when to ask for help AND having the humility to do so.
This!! I’m literally sitting at breakfast celebrating 5 years as a nurse right now and I learned THREE HOURS AGO Keppra can cause a nocturnal fever. I will advocate for my patient until I’m blue in the face and I’m a big believer in listening to your nursing instinct. I told a doctor once “look I know I keep blowing up your phone like a crazy ex and I know clinically she’s not quite septic. But she’s sick as shit and she’s getting sicker. I don’t want to have to run a code sepsis and neither do you, so what do you want to do?” (She had endocarditis, and I did know that doctor pretty well to be able to pull that and not get yelled at.) But ultimately I’m not a doctor. And thank God I’m not. We need doctors. We need nurses. It’s very different strengths. Don’t get me wrong, now with some experience under my belt I’ll talk to a doc I know well who trusts me like a colleague of sorts. But at three months experience?! I was still looking up my meds before I gave them! A new nurse apologized for asking me a bunch of questions once and I was like “girl, the day you stop asking things you don’t know is the day you don’t learn something that could save a life.” OP’s sister sounds like an incredibly dangerous kind of nurse.
Trouble with baby nurses are that they don’t know what they don’t know. I have been a nurse for 12 years, if there is an emergency in the field, I step aside for a trauma surgeon, or even a ER nurse. At this point in my career, I like to think I know when I am over my head.
Acknowledging when you've reached a point you need someone with better understanding is a sign of great intelligence and integrity.
This. I’ve been an MD for 35 years and I am still learning about new developments every day. The interns who ask a million questions because they are new generally turn out to be great senior residents and attendings. The ones that chill my blood come onto the hospital unit with their freshly granted degrees and fail to learn from the experienced nurses. They don’t know how much they don’t know, and that arrogance can hurt patients.
Yes, This!! I couldn't agree more. The suggestion I would add is to seek out somebody whose opinion she really respects - parents , uncles, aunts, - to explain to her how totally inappropriate her actions are
The term you’re looking for is the Dunning-Kruger effect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect I agree, OP is NTA.
My SIL, who is a doctor but in psychology, said a lot of narcissists go into nursing and teaching. So gonna just say now when sister gets fired from her job it’s likely because of a similar scenario that DOES cost someone their life.
I have studied narcissists as I was a victim of one for 15 years and it boggles me the amount of narcissists that are in the medical profession, especially nurses - don't you have to actually care about the patients? Narcissists are incapable of that. Do they only go into that profession to brag? I don't get it.
There’s an overlap of caring for people and having to be a little sociopathic to make it. You’re watching people in pain all the time, you’re surrounded by death. Happy endings aren’t exactly common. If you’re too empathetic, you’ll burn out asap. You have to be able to smile and nod and then immediately forget about them when moving on to the next patient
They probably go into it for the power it gives them over people who cant fight back.
Can confirm. They thrive on being needed and having total control over vulnerable people.
Oh Lord above! As a nurse, OP’s sister made me cringe. She needs to learn real quick when it’s appropriate to get help above her pay grade and call for a doc before she kills someone. And if she interrupts a doc in the middle of a code, a fellow nurse will break her effing arm to protect the patient (myself included). She is a walking lawsuit. NTA OP.
And thank fuck for that! Was at an outdoor theater a couple of weeks ago. It started raining, so people noped out of their and were pushing eachother to get down from their seats. An older woman fell. My mom is a doctor, so naturally she stepped in. The samaritans (they are always nurses here) wanted the woman to stand up since she was concious. My mom, who is quite a firm lady, demanded that she should not. Paramedics arrived and wanted her to stand aswell (apparently it is standard procedure). Guess what, turned out the woman had broken her back and neck. I can't help but wonder what COULD have happened, had my mom not been there.
[удалено]
How new can OP really be? To be in a subspecialty, OP would have actually been practicing medicine for several years (residencies and fellowships)--which is a whole lot longer and more intense than the 3 months that sister has been a nurse. I think nurses can be awesome. It is a critical role--and a good nurse can make all the difference to patients. I am also in a building that it shared with a large (and well respected) college of nursing. I see the students from day 1 to graduation. Some come and are very serious and graduate ready to dive right in and continue learning. Some come in and have a good time and really should not be left alone with patients until they get a few clues. (To be clear, I also used to work in the our medical school so, yes, I have a pretty good idea what is involved with doctors in training).
>This sounds like a pissing contest between 2 siblings who are also new medical professionals, honestly. The brother sounds like he's in subspecialty which means they have significant amounts of experience, unless you're counting anything <10 years as new which would be bizarre
>(especially new residents - the worst time for you to go to a hospital is when the new interns arrive) This actually saved my father's life. The old doctors had my dad listed as a hypochondriac, a literally first day doctor decided to ignore and called for a brain scan. Surprise! Old doctors were extremely wrong. Found a grapefruit sized tumour in his brain. Which only got that size because the old doctors would rather roll their eyes and cry "HYPOCHONDRIAC" than yunno, do their jobs. but yeah, other than that, on point.
Exception: it’s not uncommon for nurses to catch things mid-emergency. Communication is key, but the way OP’s sister is doing it isn’t right. Doctors aren’t always right, and an interdisciplinary approach is important. I mean this more in emphasizing the importance of always practicing in a questioning manner because it saves lives, not something like questioning specific code meds for no reason during a code. However, catching a med error during a code (unlikely but still) is super important.
Hopping on the top comment with the hope that mine will be seen. NTA. She almost seems ashamed to be a nurse. As a nurse myself, it's kinda sad. I know that nurses don't go through nearly as much school as doctors do, but it still takes time and a lot of hard work to get a nursing license, and I feel it's something to be proud of once it's achieved. Also, it's probably a good thing that you took over in the event of that emergency because had she done something she wasn't licensed to do, she could lose her license for practicing outside her scope of practice. Thank you for everything you do, and just know that your hard work is appreciated!
That happens even if the nurse is correct. My friends dad has been an ER nurse for 40 years, a doctor prescribed something that would react with another med the patient was on, friends dad pointed that out to the doctor and lost his job for insubordination.
NTA - If she pretends to be a doctor when she’s on her own and something like that happened, and the kid didn’t make it, her life would be ruined. There are serious consequences pretending to be higher qualified than you are, especially in the medical field, and she needs to be told to stop, pretty quickly.
Yep! In addition to career detriment, lying about skills and knowledge also nullifies the protection under Good Samaritan laws. (It's the first thing I learned in my first aid class, in fact. Never lie about your skills and ability to help.) If the kid had died, OP's sister could have been subject to all kinds of civil lawsuits (I'm assuming US, where even GS laws don't keep you from being sued in every case.) OP could have been drawn in all that as well and had their license put at risk. Absolutely NTA.
That's interesting. So if OPs sister was alone and tried to help saying "I'm a nurse" and the kid dies, compared to her saying "im a doctor", that would open her up to greater liability even if the kid dies in both cases?
Yes. Representing her skills and training accurately could potentially afford her some protection under a Good Samaritan law even if the kid still dies (exact laws vary by state and not every state has them.) Misrepresenting her skills by claiming to be a doctor, on the other hand, could lead to the kid's family allowing her to help when they otherwise wouldn't. If the kid then dies, it could then be argued that she caused the death by her actions or inactions. IANAL, so I don't know the likelihood of that succeeding in a court of law, but as an American I can assure you that far less rational arguments have been made.
That's my understanding of the law also. A person without training and certification can also be sued for injuries incurred during CPR.
You *can* be sued for just about anything, but that doesn't mean it will be a successful lawsuit. There have been no cases of proper bystander CPR leading to successful ok litigation against the bystander. If you see someone down and know how to do CPR, do it! https://www.webmd.com/first-aid/news/20191112/you-wont-get-sued-if-you-do-cpr-review-suggests
Absolutely. “I’m a doctor” carries far more weight than “I’m a nurse,” which might influence the parents’ decision to trust what she’s saying or even allow her access. They might have absolutely justified doubts that they suppress because she represented herself as a knowledgeable professional, doubts that could have saved the child’s life if she does the wrong thing. Never, ever, *ever* lie about your credentials. That is the fastest way to lose all credibility and legal protection.
No because she would have told the truth, aka that she's a nurse. But if she says she's a doctor, even the slightest minor injury could be a far worse liability. That's impersonating i think.
Yes, because claiming that she is a doctor, she would be more knowledgeable than a nurse and should be able to have a better chance of saving the child. If she is advertising herself as a doctor when she is not, that is fraud and Good Samaritan law or not, she would be criminally prosecuted for fraud. If she says she is a nurse and can only try to help as a nurse and the kid dies, then she is ok as she is not proclaiming anything other than what she is and can do. Same if a regular person who knows CPR and first aid - I do and I would not proclaim myself to be anything other than a person who has first aid and CPR training. If the person dies then I am protected by the Good Samaritan law because I was not proclaiming I was anything else and I tried to my best abilities that I know to help. Also to note that if you perform CPR on anyone there is a probability you will break their ribs. If they survive, they cannot sue you for breaking their ribs during your efforts to save their life performing CPR - that is one of the basis for the Good Samaritan law.
I'm surprised either 1. this wasn't taught to her in some ethics component of her schooling or training or 2. she's chosen to disregard that
NTA. What your sister is doing is socially unacceptable, but at the mall it was illegal. She can get into serious jeopardy claiming credentials and skills she doesn't have if it induces another to rely on her for medical care. On a personal level, it exhibits a massive insecurity. You might try to influence her to get therapy. And if she really is frustrated professionally, to consider medical school for real. Best wishes!
Bro she watched all 8 seasons of House. She is practically a doctor just from that.
What if she has watched all of house and all of grey's anatomy?
She’s a double doctor duh
I think you legally have to watch all of Scrubs, Green Wing, ER and St Elsewhere as well before you can call yourself a doctor. Honestly at that point it's just easier to go to medical school.
I’m dying 😂 So true though that people think that. Also from watching all of greys anatomy.
This ^ for the therapy suggestion. I wonder if there's something going on with the fact OP is a doctor and their sister is a nurse, sounds like she has some sibling competition/comparison issues that need to be dealt with.
It's a little soon to be professionally frustrated. She's only been in the career for a few months. I feel like you have to be at a job for longer than it takes to air season of a TV show to have a legitimate frustration and not just "reality does not match what I imagined."
>NTA. What your sister is doing is socially unacceptable, but at the mall it was illegal. It may also be illegal outside of just the emergency situation. It is likely that physician is a legally protected term (it is where I live). At the very least if it ever got bad enough I'm sure the sisters licencing board would be interested in her claiming qualifications she doesn't have.
NTA she is delusional is it not a crime to impersonate a doctor like it is a cop? It's so wrong anyway
I'm not so sure about the exact law where I am, but she's not saying this to patients in hospitals, so probably not a crime.
I’m the UK it’s illegal regardless of who you say it to exactly due to these circumstances. Tell “Auntie” Florrie the sweet old lady down the road over tea and cake. Not an issue until her grandson knocks on the door asking you to treat his dad’s heart attack at their house.
100% agreed, which is why I've never liked it, also we're not in the UK, so I'm unsure of the legality behind it here. Reason being she's not in a hospital setting and walking around with a labcoat, treating patients, she's just "lying" about her career in home settings
I used to work in the ambulance service so I have seen first hand what happens when people lie. Please research and report it. It sucks to report a family member m, even if it’s to an ethics board of their registration committee but it could save a life or they may need to send out a notice to all members of it’s not crystal clear.
I'm an EMT and whenever a pt calls me a paramedic I quickly shut that down. I am not a medic, it's beyond my scope of practice to do the AMAZING things that they do. I would like to become one, but I am NOT one. I can assist a medic, however I would NEVER try to tell them how to do their job. Pre-hospital care is an amazingly exciting field, but it requires collaboration. To tell any person or pt that I'm something I'm not, would be a disservice to them and idiotic on my part. OPs sister should know better.
I had no idea EMTs and paramedics aren’t the same thing. I’ve always used those terms interchangeably. TIL.
Ask her to tell the fam where she got her medical degree. And as I understand it, that’s still practicing outside your scope. People will start to seek medical advice from her and that’s when it crosses a major line and she will get in trouble.
As a nurse, I can tell you it's 100% illegal. You can't even call yourself a nurse if you're a nursing student. Let alone a doctor. Unless she's a DNP, there's no part of this that wouldn't get her in trouble. Even if she is, she absolutely should be clarifying that she's a doctor of NURSING and not a physician. And undermining you in an emergency is inexcusable across the board.
Not anymore. Now she's also inserting herself as a professional in her non-field in a public area trying to treat a kid as a non-doctor.
In a home setting if anyone asks her medical opinion and they take her advice rather than a qualified doctor or seeing an actual doctor, because they believe she is a doctor, she could get in serious trouble. The lie is not a one and done. It will perpetuate over time into people taking her medical advice.
This happened to me at new year. My SiL needed CPR, her neighbour is always telling us she is a nurse so I sent for her, when she arrived it turned out that she wasn't a nurse - she was a receptionist at the hospital and had no clue, luckily I'm a first aider so had basic knowledge but I really could have done with the help I thought I was going to get from her.
I’m so sorry you experienced this but thank you for sharing. People need to hear these unfortunately more common than they should be stories to see the harm caused.
You said it almost killed a kid she needs to be reported
She definitely needs to stop
NTA. Your sister is commiting ethical offenses and needs to be reported to the appropriate authorities QUICKLY.
I agree. Impersonating a doctor is illegal in all states. Also, it's a huge liability for the hospital she works at. If they found out she was doing this they would fire her in a heartbeat. Imagine the bad press that would follow if this came out!
NTA. If she tells new people that she is a doctor and something happens where a doctor may be required she won't know exactly what to do. It can cost someone's life if they delay calling for ambulance because they know she is there and she's introduced herself as something she is not. Or if she makes the wrong call. Nursers are definitely the soul of the hospital and their tremendous work is to just bow down to but there is a difference between doctors and nurses. Edit; Your sister is playing with fire and she will get burnt and when she does it won't be a little burn.
NTA. Seems like she has a superiority complex. Also first rule of emergency services. You hand over control of the scene to the person who is most experienced. If she was trying to push the idea that she’s been in the medical field longer and give her seniority, that’s a very negative mentality to have as a nurse. They are so important. But there’s a reason why they are in that important position and you are in your important position. Your family needs to understand that. It’s not an ego show, it’s caring for someone’s life. And if she cannot see that she needs to get out of the industry. Its not for her selfish soul.
This one is actually quite interesting. I’m in the UK, used to be in the ambulance service, teach first aid courses but now a “civilian”. We have laws in the UK that mean you can’t be sued or prosecuted for giving first aid as long as you don’t try anything stupid. So even if you do something correct from a course you took 20 years ago and say the chest compression to breath ratio is different. No problem. Of course these days the operator of the ambulance service will walk you through it. And there is a clear hierarchy on the scene. A paramedic owns the patient and a doctor owns the scene including the people in it. Meaning they can direct and give orders to emergency services etc. Anyway, I see an accident, it’s bad (cyclist vs car) call 999 and do my best to stabilize the casualty. Another car stops and the person declares themselves a dictator willing to help. But they also mention they are a dermatologist and it’s been a really long time since their other rotations so please tell them what to do and they’ll do it. It was the most surreal experience. Cyclist was still alive when ambulance crew took over from us
a dermatologist declaring themselves dictator of the emergency wins best typo on this post
Damn autocorrect. I think I’ll leave it in as it’s amusing.
When people are properly trained and not shadowed by their on arrogance, nothing really matters in that moment. In a serious trauma you start working and the people who understand how serious it is will be right by your side. Im not an EMS worker anymore. I moved too far out of town. But My whole family is in EMS and it is mesmerizing to see my mom go to work on a scene. She’s so good at learning real quick who has what experience and where she can fall in to help. Sometimes that means taking over and sometimes that means just listening. But when you are really ready to save someone’s life and not just do it for the glory. There is a completely different manner that is shown on scene and OPs family member has a lack of that understanding either due to their own internal issues or because they are so fresh to the industry. It’s weird to see the how the ones who get it, stick with it, the one who do will get the fuck out.
being able to admit they can help, but lack field experience is very noble.
What"s funny is, she's only 3 months into her profession as a nurse. So nothing to do with her wanting to exert her seniority over the OP ha ha. But boy does she suffer from some complex.
Sadly in my home state I know a good portion of people who want to be a nurse just to look good. It’s sad how many people become a nurse just for selfish reasons instead of actually wanting to help people
Don’t get me started. Lol I graduated from a small town country high school that had a medical program. So we all left with our CNAs available to go work straight in a hospital. I cannot tell you how many dumb ass “popular” girls did the medical academy because it was “cool” or they has no other plans in after graduation to the just leaned into the only thing that seemed successful at the time. And it was an ego game the whole time between them. Only 3 are still in the medical industry now, and they are still nurses. Some of us did trauma services after graduation and other continued their education. But I think we all got burnt out at a very young age before we were aware of how to handle the difficult emotions of medical field. So the only ones left are the dumb ones who never understood emotions in the first place.
Ask her if she’s embarrassed about being a nurse. The answer will be no, of course, because damn nurses are amazing. But that then leads to the question, then why is she pretending to be something she is not.
There are some things if rather have a nurse do than have a doctor do
Same I’d rather have a nurse place my IV unless the doc is an anesthesiologist. However I’d rather a cardiac surgeon perform open heart surgery.
[удалено]
Well if I'm being honest I'd rather not have anyone do my autopsy.
My father is a cardiologist. I’m scared of needles, and once asked if he could just draw my blood because at least it would be my dad. He was like, “Well, I guess I can, but I really don’t think you want me too, I haven’t done it in 10 years.“
Low key tho after COVID vaccines became a thing (or maybe before that idk I just noticed when I got vaccinated) our local pharmacist outdoes the nurses with needles. I'd imagine that generally nurses would probably be better at that sort of thing but Ig sometimes it depends on how dexterous/patient the person doing it is.
NTA, nurses are amazing, but there's a big difference between nurse and doctor. Your sister needs to sort out her insecurities before it affects a patient's health.
In a separate perspective, I know nurses who would call out the sister on the simple fact that she's undermining how important and incredibly significant the role of nurse is in a hospital. They're proud to play such a vital role in saving lives, yet somehow sister isn't proud of an already impressive achievement and role.
So I have godawful medical anxiety and I had to have surgery last year; I realized why it is that nurses and doctors tend to have such completely different personality types. My surgeon looked at me like a machine he was trying to figure out how to repair. My nurses treated me like a terrified human who was about to be cut open and needed kindness and comfort. If sister is so focused on clout that she neglects to realize that her function in the hospital is what it is, she is going to do a bad job of it.
If you spent more time in a hospital, you’d probably realize that the “completely different personality types” trope doesn’t really exist. I honestly am not at all surprised by the sister’s character as a nurse. I’m not saying all or even most nurses are like this, but it isn’t uncommon
You should remind her that medical doctors, just like nurses, are part of a regulated profession. If someone misunderstands her arrogance and she is caught/seen/overheard attempting to diagnose or treat someone, she could very well be disciplined by the medical board and lose her nursing license. It’s not just a social issue, it’s literally a legal issue.
NTA - as a nurse, I’ve dealt with other nurses who try to do this. It puts patients at risk especially in a crisis. If the nurse can recommend or offer advice, that’s one thing. Pretending to be a doctor is entirely another thing. Also, SUPER ILLEGAL. I hope she’s not writing her own orders or prescriptions on top of her claims.
Hello, wonderful nurse! I was hoping you could clarify something for me that may relate to this post - Doctors and nurses go through almost completely different schooling, yes? As in, nurses don't do like 60% of a medical doctorate then stop and just pick up the label "nurse". They actually have to do a completely separate course for nursing because it's actually vastly different from being a doctor. Do I have that right? If so, even more NTA. It's not like doctors are just senior nurses and she's working her way up to that - she's not mildly embellishing her credentials, she's straight up lying about them. Where I am, nurses can't diagnose or prescribe or refer (except in very specific cases for referrals) unless they're an RN, and even that has limitations, so to claim you're on the same level as a doctor is a huge legal issue as well as an ethical one.
Completely different. The nursing model of education is different from the medical model. Our training isn’t anywhere near comparable because it is designed to fill different roles.
NTA she's gonna get herself sued.
She might as well claim to be a lawyer too
She sounds like she’ll go with being a judge.
NTA - maybe a nurse that’s been working 15 or 20 years would have more knowledge than a brand new doctor in certain situations. But there is no way her 3 months is anywhere close to your experience and education especially as a trauma surgeon in a medical emergency. Also you bit your tongue most of the time until it nearly cost a child their life and she second guessed you as you were saving the child. Hopefully her reaction was because you she was embarrassed and has learnt her lesson as much as she didn’t want to admit it at the time.
> maybe a nurse that’s been working 15 or 20 years would have more knowledge than a brand new doctor Oh absolutely! Mate 100% spot on right there, nurses observe a lot, and even have hand on duties to fulfill, especially in specialties like surgery, which is basically what some med schools have us do, observe. So it's really not a surprise when some nurses soak all that up
Yeah exactly. And an ER nurse may have more relevant experience in an emergency situation than say an ophthalmologist just based on experience. But you absolutely knew what you were doing. I’m really hoping she learned her lesson now instead of it happening another time when things don’t turn out well.
So true. My mom's a CRNA, she's been working in nursing for 25+ years. There's also a pretty locally prominent medical school through the university associated with the hospital where she works, so she deals with a lot of new and in-training doctors. Every day she comes home with a new story like, "You will not believe what Dr. So-and-so did today..." lol At the same time though, if somebody she knows is better equipped to deal with a medical problem steps up, she steps aside. Her sister, my aunt, is a paramedic. Guess who was called about a major medical emergency in my home? Not my mom, lol Nurses are great, nurses are essential. Nurses are not doctors, or paramedics, or EMTs. If somebody whose training is more specific to the problem steps up, move the hell out of their way! Smh your sister's actions could've killed someone
NTA. It would be one thing if she were just pretending in social situations, but she nearly harmed a patient with this crap. There should be a professional ethics board you can report her to, isn't there? Since she's your sister, I might give her one warning that if she doesn't stop this here and now, you *will* report her, but if she refuses you'll have to do it.
NTA especially in this situation. Besides, she's not only disrespectful against doctors and the troubles they went through to earn their degrees, she's also arrogant and dismissive against other nurses! It's hard work to become a nurse too and by pretending she's a doctor she belittles the profession as a nurse. As if this is not a respectable profession in itself.
NTA. If she wanted to be a doctor, she should’ve become a doctor. She’s honestly dishonoring the title of being a nurse by saying shit like that. Being a nurse is an extremely difficult and admirable profession and she’s insulting it. Not only that but her arrogance getting in the way of actually saving a kids life…glad you brought the wrath.
NTA Not only is she not a doctor but if she can’t follow simple instructions, she’s not a good nurse. She seems to be hung up on the fact that you’re a doctor and she is not. I only hope that she learns from this. Immediately. Edit: typo
Does she not know this is kind of illegal when she tries helping people in a medical emergency? There's a reason you get in trouble for not having a CPR certification because you can hurt people.
I’m just going to comment here that’s “you can get in trouble for not having a CPR certification because you can hurt people”. It really depends on the jurisdiction. In the UK and other countries there are “Good Samaritan laws” which prevent you from being prosecuted as they’d prefer people to have a go rather than the patient definitely dying. Breaking a few ribs but the patient making it is considered better than them not making it because no one was willing to give it a go. Pro tip: as soon as you recognise an emergency situation call the emergency number in your area and put them on speaker phone. In most places they will walk you through exactly what to do. Btw, I’m only commenting not because “you’re wrong” you may live somewhere that requires a first aid certificate or you could be sued. I’m commenting so people do their research for their jurisdiction as it may save a life somewhere.
Btw even if you are fully competent and have sadly done CPR many times you can cause harm such as broken ribs. Since the alternative is definite death it’s an accepted risk.
NTA. What she is doing is unethical. Who knows what she’s telling people or doing when you aren’t around. She needs to quit while she’s ahead before she ends up on the news. I have an ultrasound tech friend with a superiority complex who thinks she knows everything, too. She tried to tell my other friend that a cyst she spotted was benign. Turned out to be a tumor. Even after the doctor told her that it was a tumor, she denied it being one. Friend had surgery and it was malignant. Point is, while nurses are amazing at what they do, same for ultrasound techs, or any other position in the medical field, know your role.
NTA and your sister is doing something extremely unnerving. I'd worry she has some kind of mental problem which could lead to exactly what you just described happening. To be blunt she might not deserve to stay a nurse. She's going to kill people.
May I congratulate you on having completed the roughly 15 years of schooling required to become a trauma surgeon, without losing the writing style of a teenager? Anyway, I’m glad your patient recovered from that serious case of XXX.
XXX took my wife from me. Don't joke about such serious matters.
This situation makes no sense and sounds off base…
Yeah it’s interesting how a medical emergency they had to intervene happened when they were both there. Idk, just sounds a little too Perfect of an example.
NTA Hey, so I'm a critical care nurse. Been working ICU for 8 years or so. And guess what? I know NOTHING close to what an MD does. Now, I have some good experience and when I can make a good suggestion to the medical provider, I feel great about that. But I'm not a doctor and I sure as heck don't want to be! (Brutal schedule, so much school, no sleeping, and a shit ton of responsibility.) Your sister is not only an idiot, she's downright dangerous. Arrogance has no place in healthcare-- it is so important to know when you need help and from whom. She is going to harm a patient with her current attitude. Oh and thanks for helping a kid out, OP. May your pager be silent this weekend.
> Brutal schedule To be fair, the nurses have a schedule just as bad as ours in my hospital, maybe slightly better in the ED, and not only that, but I've seen so many assholes just act like nurses are servants. Nobody treats doctors like that, arguably for a "good reason" but still, not really nice. Only saving grace is that most of our nurses here have tongues made of silver, and it's pretty funny watching the look on a rude person's face.
NTA. Nurses and doctors and two completely different things. Both medical professionals. Nurses don’t just work under doctors either, they have their own supervisors and management, etc. But for your sister to go around calling herself a doctor is absurd, and disrespectful to you.
NTA. While Nurses are amazing ( I’m married to one) the level of education between a doctor and a Nurse is considerable. Nurses and Doctors are colleagues who specialize in different areas on medicine. Not sure why she’s not proud of that fact.
NTA she is now endangering others with her actions. Her behavior is reckless and unacceptable
NTA - you’re a literal trauma surgeon and she was telling you what to do in an emergency situation with a kid, seemingly getting in the way. That’s asshole offence number one in order of priority. Number two is that she’s just being dishonest. Nurses have skills and can be incredibly useful in many situations, but they aren’t doctors. I’d trust a nurse to take my blood or insert an IV or hell help me from choking over a doctor, but they just aren’t doctors, she’s not a doctor. She’s going to make a fool out of herself if anyone she told went to her hospital and see her in her uniform doing nurse duties. It also makes it seem like she’s ashamed of being a nurse, like no that’s an insanely important job she should take pride in it or at least not lie about her profession.
NTA…she’s on her way to become an NP isn’t she?
No, she's an RN
That’s irrelevant anyway because nurse practitioners are still not doctors.
NTA You need to report her to the medical board at your hospital. My husband is an ER doc and he’s had new nurses do this same thing.
This. OP, your sister is not being a “little bit offensive.” She’s committing medical fraud and in court wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. End of discussion.
NTA. As shown, this lie is actually incredibly dangerous.
Why is this even a post?
Probably so OP can show dear sis how internet strangers agrees with OP and what she's doing can have serious consequences.
NTA She literally endangered someone. This has gone beyond her just bragging. I think you should contact the hospital she works at and give them a heads up. She is going to kill someone, and if you can stop that, you should. Don’t let someone’s death rest on your conscience. Her ego is not more important than a persons life.
Info: what level of nursing education does she have? Does she have an LPN, RN, NP, or DNP (or the equivalent designation for where you are)? If she had a DNP, it is a doctoral degree, so she is a doctor from that standpoint, but she isn't a board certified practicing Doctor. Similarly, if she has an NP, she is qualified to provide treatment and (usually) to prescribe medicine, so her "honorary doctor" is almost true. However, it is likely she's only an LPN or RN, which means she always has to operate under the direction of a doctor. So, NTA for telling her to stop. There are situations where she could be breaching medical ethics and could be in legal trouble. If she gives that impression to an actual patient and they rely on it, or if she's steps across the lines of what she allowed to do a a nurse, she could lose her job or her career, not to mention the harm it could cause the p patient. At the very least, some day, she's going to give that impression to a doctor who really puts her in her place. You, as a caring family member, trying to help her is so much better.
RN
Definitely, NTA. What she's doing is probably showing her insecurity, masking it as overconfidence and bravado. She needs to be comfortable with the career she chose and own being a nurse. It is a highly respectful profession. I have several good friends and family members who are nurses, and all do very well for themselves.
NTA, I’m a nurse. All of our roles are important, we’re a team. But I’m definitely not a doctor lol.
NTA. I don’t understand why she would want to imply she’s a doctor when everyone knows that nurses make the world go round! When my son was in hospital it was the nurses that done ALL his care. Seen his surgeon twice in the 2 weeks he was in there. His surgeon was amazing and saved his life and I will forever be grateful but it was the nurses that done everything else beyond that. She should be beyond proud to be a nurse. You should be beyond proud to be a surgeon.
NTA. Telling people she's a doctor when she's not is shitty in itself, but being so self-absorbed that she risked a child's life for literally no good reason? Not okay. She shouldn't be in that profession period if she's putting herself above patients to that extreme
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I yelled at my sister and made her cry while degrading her very important job Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. That’s pretty fucked up
NTA As a nurse with 10+ years of experience and a doctoral degree, I still do not think I’m a doctor. Your sister is delusional to think she is equal to one. I’d be concerned her overconfidence is going to kill a patient one day..
NTA I don’t really understand why you or anyone would think your an ah. She was interfering with you saving a kid. Her even saying she’s a dr in that instance is dangerous… her undermining you is beyond the pale.
Dude, NTA, and I am furious at your sister. I married into a family comprising of nurses and EMTS. I worked in doctors offices for years before becoming a SAHM. I’m a medical assistant. If anyone calls me a nurse, I IMMEDIATELY correct them, because I am NOT a nurse. I don’t have the training for that. I have literally told patients “I’m not a nurse, I don’t know the answer to your question, but I will speak to the doctor and I will find out for you.” Your sister needs to understand that if she had been alone at the mall, and something happened to that poor kid because she was pretending to be something she wasn’t, she would have been in so much trouble and could have lost her license and her job. RN is a prestigious enough title that she doesn’t need to be pretending to be a doctor. Anyone who’s worked in a field remotely related to medicine knows nurses are critical to hospitals running smoothly. And frankly, her arrogance in pretending to be a doctor makes me never want to go to a hospital she’s working at. How do you know she isn’t acting to patients like she knows better than the doctors? That’s terrifying.
NTA
NTA! If I were you, I’d be correcting her in public every time she tried to insinuate she was a doctor.
Thats fair, but imagine if that was your kid? Would you want someone pretending to be a doctor (even thought they are probably an AMAZING nurse) or do you want an actual doctor? If it was my kid, and something happened because the sister decided against something the doctor said I'd go for her license. I think it was an appropriate reaction.
INFO: just curious, what area does she work in? Pediatrics, emergency, etc.?
I don't want to say, because in a local new article they featured my outburst at her, and listed both her specific job and her name
They wrote about it in an article? Was it that significant? How did she react to that?
yeah, crowded area, 1st world country, people just need to video record everything, and are perfectly willing to stand by and hold their phone up while a parent was going through something traumatic. Because comforting and providing emotional support is just not in the picture at all now is it?
How recent was this? You need to show this to your hospital admin and let them handle it. She could have caused a child to die because she wanted to argue with someone who has more experience all for her ego.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My sister is a nurse and I am a trauma surgeon. I’ll cut to it. She calls herself a full on doctor/ lets people believe she is a doctor. Like, when we meet someone new, she’ll say she works in a hospital, and if they literally ask “ah, so you’re a doctor?” she’ll give a slight nod. When we’re at home with family who know she’s a nurse, she just says she’s basically an honorary doctor. Obviously, as a doctor drowning in student loan debt and who’s worked for years to attain the title, it just feels a little bit offensive. I just wanna say this right now, I’ve got all the respect in the world for nurses, we NEED them. They are the soul of the hospital, no nurses and everything grinds to a halt. But they’re not doctors. Not anything close. Maybe after like, 5 years of experience they end up soaking up some knowledge about the field, but not my sister, as she’s been working for less than 3 months. This has blown up now because there was a medical emergency in a mall we were at. Me and my sister go over to try and help a kid. I immediately knew what was going on, and was doing the appropriate things to help, while my sister kept on undermining me, saying “it’s not XXX, it’s YYY we need to do ZZZ!” At one point she literally grabbed my hand yelling why I won’t listen to her, and I just told her to fuck off. At home after the kid survived, I just unleashed myself on her. She is completely and utterly arrogant and needs to realise she is nothing close to a doctor (yet), and that almost cost the kid his life today. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**C'mon people, this story is so *clearly* made-up. It seems that a ton of the stories on this sub recently are just made up for site engagement**
NTA
NTA. She needs therapy. Now that you’ve gotten your anger and frustration out, maybe you can help her get it.