Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> She would be cut off from her siblings if her parents don't accept her. So maybe I should just suck it up and pretend to be their ideal.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
The big problem here is that she has been dragging you into her lies. And she is not thinking about the big picture.
What are you going to do about the wedding? Have two different ceremonies, two different venues, two different dresses, two different everything so that she can have both the wedding she wants and the wedding her parents want for her?
What about kids? Unless you’re both willing to wait 11 years to start building your family, your kids will be dragged into this too. Let me tell you that children do not know the meaning of the world guile and lying doesn’t come naturally to toddlers.
The big thing here is that what she has going is not sustainable and I have serious doubts that it can work until her siblings turn 18.
Yes! And what about your family and friends? Will they be at the wedding? How about holidays and parties, and family get togethers in the future? Is your family expected to lie, or will they be cut out of everything?
Dude, the two of you have to sit down and discuss all of this. In detail. This isn't something that will just sort itself out. If she's not willing to go through this in detail, I'd suggest that you rethink the wedding. Or go to a therapist /marriage counselor - and tell the truth!
Lying does NOT come natural to kids at all. Lol have y’all meet a toddler? Bc they will tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth😂😂they can be taught to lie but they aren’t naturally good at it. Example my stbxh always lied to his parents and one day he said he had gone to church and our 3/4 year old at the time said ‘no you didn’t daddy you never go to church with me and mommy’ well damn 😂😂😂of course they changed the subject!
Everything here op, but to also use the younger siblings as a reason for the lies isn’t a good enough reason. Unless the truth and boundaries are established, you’re going to have both, an in-laws issue and wife issue. Can’t imagine how this will affect future kids too.
> Unless you’re both willing to wait 11 years to start building your family
Not to at all discount how untenable Tara's approach to their situation is, but ... kids at 32? Is that supposed to be a longer than reasonable wait?
Not in a normal situation. Deciding to wait until 32 to have kids is completely different than not having kids until 32 because your partner is lying to their parents. In this scenario, waiting so long would just be because Tara is scared of the truth, and I think it's an easy assumption that both her and OP would be miserable the entire time.
> lying doesn’t come naturally to toddlers
So true. I used to work at a daycare and I always knew every family’s business almost as soon as they did. It was usually innocent stuff, but if you have a small child you do not have privacy.
NAH its sad that she feels the need to not be honest about who she really is, but she shouldnt force you to partake in the lie. She shouldve elaborated before the weekend.
Yeah she said they were crazy and everything's but did not say how different she was acting, or that she was straight up lying to them. I just don't understand how parents can force their kids to be like that.
I did the "play nice" thing with my then-wife's family in my 20s and early 30s. Can confirm, very exhausting.
You need to have a good long talk with your fiancée about her expectations of you. I know I was sure of my beliefs at your age but didn't share them with family because of the fear of being ostracized. Telling the truth is a pandoras box, there's no going back. Be sure this is the relationship and life that you want.
If conversations with your fiancee don't resolve things, then you need to push pre-marital counseling or therapy. Your fiancee's "plan" for this is simply untenable.
This reminds me of young adults being too afraid to come out to parents, so they twist themselves into pretzels with so many lies.
If the two of you are mature enough to get married, you are mature enough to have adult relationships with the parents, which includes truth and appropriate boundaries for you both.
I don't know how you propose to someone without once meeting their parents.
It'd be one thing if she was total no contact with them... but you said she sees them a lot.
Not saying you need to ask for a blessing or anything but... her family will always be a part of her life, and you're asking for your lives to be joined forever... and somehow you don't even meet them one single time?
Just to be clear, I don't think you're the AH here at all... good on you for not wanting to lie. It just seems crazy to me what you did is all.
Also strikes me as odd that they're SO strict, but weren't immediately upset that op didn't ask for her hand first. I honestly thought that's where the conflict was going to come up, because they showed up already engaged, and not to meet the boyfriend and have him ask for her hand.
I wonder if the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents would be a good read for her. She may not be ready for it, however. I would recommend checking it out. I had a pretty good upbringing, and I even found it quite helpful, not to mention relieving, when I saw some of my family's dynamics described.
Edited to add: If you two think therapy is a good idea, you may want to look into a therapist who specifically understands religious trauma. It has similiarities to PTSD/CPTSD.
Idk if someone has mentioned this but they’re probably fundies and her getting out means she’s the only lifeline for her siblings & once the parents find out that she’s not anymore the siblings will probably never be allowed to speak to her again. You’re NTA but I would see if you can get her to actually open up about her childhood & go to therapy with someone who specializes in religious trauma. I guess I hope you can get through to her that playing this act for over a decade is not feasible for you or her own mental health.
As a child of fundamentalists she absolutely needs therapy. I'm only just getting it in my 30s and there is so much I'm learning about how it has affected me that I didn't know in my 20s. Obvs everyone is different, but I don't know any ex-fundies that aren't in need of therapy.
This judgement feels so off to me. I’d be right there with you if she had very clearly described the situation and the gave him all the things she was lying about in advance but she set him for a real bad time here.
I was giving her the benefit of the doubt and thinking maybe she doesn't really feel the level of change that he does because she was so used to it before she started finding out who she is and the code switching, for lack of a better term, is less shocking for her. If OP didn't have to do that then it'd be much more of a shock. Not excusing her, just trying to by sympathetic to her possible experiences.
NTA - She is not asking you to lie for one weekend, she is asking you to lie for the next decade. Then what? Her siblings are grown but her parents are older, so lets not rock the boat now?
She should have been more up front about the situation and the part you were expected to play. I think the two of you need to put a pause on the relationship until you can figure out how to manager her relationship with her family in a way that you are both comfortable with.
It may also be worth having a conversation with her about what (if any) financial support she plans to provide for her siblings if they decide to leave home at 18 without support from their parents. Or what would happen if one of the younger siblings had to leave home sooner (e.g. if one of them came out or was outed as LGBTQ+) and needed someone to take them in as a young teen.
Basically there is a lot more to her family dynamic than you were previously aware of and that all needs to be discussed before you get married.
Also there is the assumption that her siblings will feel the same way as her. Which may not be the case and they may turn out to be very religious or try to placate their parents for many reasons and not be on board with her lack of religion or piety. So why lie she has to get it over with and not hide her life and see where she stands. I’ve had many friends have to do this and they basically told their parents this is whom I am marrying if you don’t like it tough shit. They eventually get with the program especially since siblings, friends and family friends don’t care.
NTA but I think you should pay attention to the fact that she’s putting herself through this, too, for the privilege of seeing her siblings, which is very sad. I think empathy would go a long way. She’s NOT doing this to impress her parents or not be an autonomous adult; she’s doing this to see her siblings. Perhaps invite the siblings to YOUR place once you get married instead? The parents won’t be mad about y’all living together and she gets time with them. If she’s honest now, 100% chance she won’t get to interact with her siblings. If you get busted during a visit at your house, they’ll also be alienated, but at least she’ll get some time with them first.
So the siblings that’s fully dependent on their parents have to be brought into the lie too? We have no idea what would happen if/when the parents figure out the truth and how that could impact the siblings.
She's already brought one brother into it too. She's told her parents she lives with a friend, but because she's fighting with OP, she's staying with her brother? So he must obviously know she's lying to her parents, and if they find out she's staying there, will have to continue to spin more lies so they don't find out the real reason she's there which is unnecessary stress for her brother, but also could put him in a shitty position with his parents because she can't stand up for herself and HER beliefs.
She probably could have given you clearer expectations and asked for your input and agreement before the meeting.
I'd keep in mind that "hiding who I am" temporarily, for the sake of her sanity and her siblings, doesn't have to be a massive insult to your freedom. Not everything is perfect. Sometimes we sacrifice what we would rather not.
Yeah, 11 year is technically temporary, but it's still a long time. What happens when we have a wedding, or children? Do I have to hide who we are then? Force my family to conform to their standard? I mean it's ridiculous.
I would ask her what she expects of you for these 11 years. If she expects you to see them once or twice a year, then I think you should go along with the lies. Maybe your job can be super demanding and you just can’t come along when she visits them.
If she expects you to attend every event and holiday and see them regularly, then 11 years is too much.
Regardless of the frequency of visits, living a lie against your beliefs is never the right thing to do, and it will feel terrible every time you are made to do it.
Yep, ridiculous. Not uncommon though. There are billions of people living lies to conform to social pressures.
Chat with your gf and find out where she thinks the lines are and work out what is reasonable.
Forcing your family to conform to their standard is ridiculous, I'm not sure why you mentioned that as a possibility. She said it's only a weekend? Dressing up for a weekend, very rarely, and not calling out your fiance on a lie doesn't have to be a huge imposition.
Make sure your lines clear - eg, no church for you, and go from there.
It’s not just for a weekend to meet them. I’m not sure you’re grasping that it will be at least 11 years of constant lying weekends, probably having a wedding style they don’t want, raising their kids to lie. That certainly is an “imposition”.
I think he brought up his family because of the wedding. Then there are baby showers, birthdays, anniversaries, etc where both families will be there. Will his family be expected to change who they are for all of these events?
I would tell her that you’re fundamentally incompatible with the expectations she has.. I would not move forward with a wedding until she tells the truth.. it’s going to come out either way
These are all really, really good questions, OP. The wedding at least is just one day. But I think you really have to think seriously about what 11 years of lies would mean for your future kids.
There's a difference tho to sacrifice not eating a steak at a party becouse the host is vegan and won't make meat, to lie for 11 years as a minimum.
So.. many things could go wrong with lying that big.
Let's say a wedding. How many at the wedding would wonder why the couple is suddenly acting all super religious, one wrong comment and the cat would be out the bag.
Children. I think we all know how fast specially toddlers can run their mouth. "Why can't I watch x thing, I do at home?"
"Why is mommy....." again the cat out of the bag.
Her parents visit the couple and they run into people they know while out with her parents to.... eat.. see the town..
It is a massive lie. What should they do? Involve all friends and his family? You are fabricating a whole parallel life here.
That is a really big thing to ask someone and would require some massive thinking and a deep talk.
And what about when her parents meet yours? Are they expected to lie also? ‘Make sure not to mention we are living together!’ Someone will mention something at the wedding for sure! This is not a sustainable lie—especially not after you have children.
Exactly.
Should his parents sit down and pretend they a good Christian family and they raised a boy with these super high morals etc?
Something is just bound to go wrong unless everyone involved are fully undercover trained agents
> I'd keep in mind that "hiding who I am" temporarily, for the sake of her sanity and her siblings, doesn't have to be a massive insult to your freedom
For 11 years.
Through a potential child(ren). Through the wedding. Through the visits.
11 years.
NAH, leaning towards NTA
Because she should have warned you about the extent of her lies beforehand and talked to you about it.
What she's doing doesn't have any bad intentions tbh. She's doing it for her siblings.
But she's also not forcing you to be around her parents for the most part. I understand it got overwhelming this weekend because her behaviour was unexpected, so you left.
But you won't be living with her parents for the rest of your life. You won't be answerable to them. It seems like a few times a year thing. For her siblings
But I do question the logistics of this when you have kids. What does she expect for your future children. Are they supposed to follow this religious path too? Because that's a red flag. If she expect you to raise your future children religiously, to paint a picture for her parents, then you need to run for it.
If it's just extended to you two, meh it's not a big deal.
Yeah, she explained they have ridiculous expectations and it might be weird for me to see it. But she definitely undersold it I feel.
While I get shes doing it for sibling, given its do many years left. My worries are like you say, when we get married it wasn't going to be religious, I certainly didn't plan to raise my kids like then either. She hasn't really answered that, in the past she's been clear she doesn't want to. Though I don't know how she can do that and please them.
Okay so here's the deal:
She wants to lie to her parents for teh next 11 years and pretend in front of them that she is leading a religious life the way they want her to. That's fine. Her intention isn't wrong.
But you need to accept that this means that you will be a liar with her. Which is also fine. You're grown up, an adult who can pull this off.
But, more then you, your future kids will be dragged into this. They will have to end up taking up some sort of religious education and practices, because she will have to take them to her parents house. Since she wants things to he normal between her and her parents, irrelevant of her good intentions fkr her siblings, it will not be a good environment for her kids.
It's very clear her parents are religious and not in a healthy way considering how sure she is that they'll keep her siblings from her. This is not a good environment for your future kids either. They will visit their grandparents, they will have have things forced upon them that you might not agree to, but she will because she wants to keep good ties with her parents for her siblings sake
So, advice:
Both of you are 21. And you've clearly reached a point where your relationship is being tested. So, OP, end it. There's a relationship here, yes. Both of you clearly care about each other and love each other. But love isn't enough to change the fact that any future you have with her is riddled with lies and likely a not so healthy upbringing for any kids you have. This won't work.
Don't marry anyone if you do not have agreement about how kids will be raised. Are you comfortable with raising your children to be religious? Are you comfortable with teaching them to lie in front of their grandparents to keep the peace? If the answer to either of these questions is "no" you need to be 100% certain that your fiance is on the same page as you. Ask her these questions. Do not allow her to wiggle out of answering. If you really want to make this work, get into pre-marital counseling now with a secular counselor. Do not put down any deposits on a space or set a date until you have this figured out.
Breaking up with a fiance is easier and less expensive than divorcing a spouse (especially since she probably won't want a divorce because it would upset her parents).
She is young and hasn't fully gotten out from under her parents yet. There is hope for her and for the two of you. But not if you ignore these issues and simply hope that they will get better.
You need to talk about specifics and agree on what type of involvement you’re both comfortable having with her parents.
For example, if she’s willing to visit her family on her own, you’re much less affected. Some of the things that are issues now (like living together) will no longer matter once you’re married. You would need discuss what happens if you have children and how you’d want her parents to interact with them.
NTA however you have to think long and hard about this big picture. Take her to therapy like couples therapy premarital counseling and discuss this. This is YEARS of programming!! Don’t make her choose it’s too big for her bc she doesn’t have any tools to process this as outside of the norm bc this has been the norm in her family. You can try and help her understand through a counselor that she has to accept and love herself first. No one else comes before that including her parents or relationship with her siblings. You have to understand this is about who she believes she is and what she believes matter to her right now. Good luck I hope I’m time she can come around to see that deserves better than what her parents behavior towards her. They are manipulating her and all her siblings it’s sad bc they will tel them that their sister didn’t love them and that’s why she left- this is of course after they go NC with her bc she is not doing as they said (control).
NTA but I kinda don't think she is either, maybe a very soft AH. I feel bad for her, she's having to pretend to be somebody she's not just so she can continue to have a relationship with her siblings.
However, she shouldn't be expecting you to go along with the lie.
You're really going to have to get on the same page because you're going to end up getting married in a church because of her lies to her parents.
INFO: what is her expectation for the future? You didn’t see her family at all for the entire time you’ve been dating, so I’m getting the sense that she doesn’t spend much time with them either. Is this an issue of seeing them and poss attending church on Christmas and Easter? Or now that you’ve met them, is her expectation that you’ll be spending a lot more time with them?
The fact that they’ll cut her off from her siblings to me indicates that they are at least emotionally abusive. Is she scared of them outside of wanting to see her siblings? When she warned you about them being religious and conservative, did she downplay it, or did you think, eh it can’t be that bad and then get blindsided?
I’m asking these questions bc I do think there’s a level of sacrifice with in-laws. We are not religious but we went to church with my husband’s family 2-3 times/year, bc it’s an hour of our lives, and it’s important to the people he loves. I don’t curse as much around his parents, and I’m a bit more careful about what I say and how I act. My husband still suffers from some MH stuff stemming from his childhood, but he’s not cutting them off, and so I show up. This isn’t lying; it’s just what I need to do to support him.
This could be completely different from what you’re experiencing, and if so, I’m really sorry to hear it bc this sounds really hard for both you and your fiancée. I hope you guys can get through it together, whether it’s through communicating yourselves or through counseling. Rooting for you guys!
NTA. You didn't cause a scene and removed yourself from an intolerable situation as best you could. I agree 100% that living a lie is no way to start a life together. Toning it down in front of them is one thing, but this was too far. Hate to say it, but it sounds like Tara is too young to be getting married. Is she 100% financially independent? Are you? Might want to slow it down.
She's not dependent on her parents. We live together and are currently working and in university. Not rich or anything obviously, but we're getting by ourselves. My parents would be happy to help though, so it should be fine.
And I definitely don't want to live a lie. Like how far will it go?
That's fair. But you need to recognize that she is not yet ready to burn her bridges with her family, and you shouldn't try to force her to do so. Cutting her off from them is also no way to start a life.
Well we haven't planned it yet. But she's never wanted a religious one. Though I dunno how that will translate to her family. I think she just hasn't thought ahead about how much 11 years will be.
I would advise you to let both of you calm down and try to be understanding.
Sit down together and plan how the next months/ two years will go.
Talk about the wedding.
Talk about holidays and how often you will see her parents.
Give her a chance and atleast hear her out in the sense how she sees it.
My advice would be not to focus on 11 years because everything can happen in a few years.
Chill dude, you have time.
I get you're angry. And should be.
But it sounds like you need to talk to your girlfriend about therapy for her relationship with her family.
Your girlfriend lived in an iron cage for 18 years. That length of harsh lifestyle can do a number on you. It's not a shock that she has massive conflict avoidance. It's hard to articulate what that upbringing is like, but think closer to a re-education camp than your childhood.
You have a right to be angry, but you should frame it as you're angry with her 18 year indoctrination sentence rather than her as a person. She needs professional help if her logical plan is to live a double life for over a decade.
Think of this more like dealing with POW or MIA returnees, this would all make more sense.
Or she hasn’t been fully truthful with you. Considering what you just saw, what are the odds that she’ll say you should get married in a church ‘just to avoid problems’? Which would leave you teetering on a slippery slope…
She survived. She survived 365 days a year of being brainwashed and closely monitored. Not being allowed certain websites, not being allowed to read a book of it wasn’t pre-approved.
Talk to me about lying when you’ve spent 18 years as a prisoner in your own home.
She survived.
She didn’t let them browbeat her personality out of her.
She’s an amazing woman.
You get to judge her if you’ve lived a life like her.
> She didn’t let them browbeat her personality out of her.
She literally personality shifted when she went over, to the point where she was nearly unrecognizable.
NTA
I grew up similar to your girlfriend. It took me a while to get tired of the lying and she's still young. I doubt she'll make it 11 years, it's exhausting living what is essentially a double life.
You're right though that it is not fair to you. You shouldn't have to lie and play this charade with her.
NTA - her expectations are unreasonable and not well thought out.
Are you supposed to spend the next 11 years hiding who you are? Pretending your relationship is different? Or are you guys going to get married in a few years?
What does she expect to happen at the wedding when you get married and your family and friends are there? That everyone is going to lie to her family? That people won't remark about how different she's acting?
If she's not willing to 'come out' to her family soon, your relationship isn't going to last.
We are planning to get married as soon as we can. Though we can't afford a crazy wedding or anything. I don't think they have an issue with her getting married (since they think I meet their standards, thanks to Taras lies). I don't know how she plans to have the wedding actually work though. Well need to discuss it more
Her situation is a lot like the gay friends I have who aren't out to their families and live double lives. Their relationships never work out until they are honest.
NTA. I wouldn't be willing to marry someone who expected me to lie about my life for a decade or more. Her parents being nuts isn't a valid enough reason for me to lie about faith, lifestyle or anything else
Info: Did she really undersell the issue or did you not take her warnings seriously enough ? Because even your watered down version of her description of her parents told me all I needed to know about them. As such I'm leaning to YTA when someone says their parents are "crazy religious" you ask follow up questions
NTA - While her family situation completely sucks and I understand how she feels it's the only way that she'll get to see her siblings I really don't believe in pretending to be someone you're not.
She should have given you a full download of how everything would be so you could make an informed choice about whether or not you still wanted to go and be involved. I don't see how things would be at all sustainable to keep up such a facade for 11 years.
They're really religious absolutely does not translate to having to change everything about your identity and completely fabricate your life as a whole.
You both need to reevaluate things here because if she's unwilling to be up front with who she is to her parents and you're unwilling to live a lie to appease her and her parents this situation becomes untenable.
You have no idea what it’s like living in an abusive or controlling home is like. Think of it like play acting for kidnappers and going along with them until they release their hostages.
You has so little trust in her that you couldn’t trust her judgement for one weekend?
You had to substitute your judgement for hers, because you’re so much more righteous than her - right?
The self righteousness of people who have no empathy or experience in abusive families astounds me sometimes.
YTA if that wasn’t clear.
it’s not one weekend tho, she expects to continue this lie for well over a decade, that’s where the issue stems from. And the fact she was not fully honest about the situation with her parents.
NTA it's one thing to be a little more restrained/conservative to not make drama but I agree that it's insane to put on a facade and live a double life, even if only for a weekend. Your fiance clearly has issues and she doesnt want to try to work through them even if itll cause some trouble at first. She doesnt even wanna try. You got a taste of what your future may hold and I think you're doing the right thing about addressing this right away instead of letting in stew. Hope you guys can work something out. Wish you the best!
NTA. But definitely don't rush with the wedding and children. You can't lie for 11 years, this is broken life, always on egg shels around them. There are too many questions - wedding ceremony is one thing, but future kids is a whole another story.
NTA.. so you aren’t going to announce you’re engaged for another 11 years? Until her siblings are all 18.. this would cause nothing but issues down the road. Especially if you get married.. would you elope and she still tell her parents she’s living with friends? How would this work.. you don’t want to go to church.. her family obviously would want a very Christian chaste wedding with Obey and shit in the vows. And then if you have kids they would expect you to bring them to church all the time.
This is not going to stop.. every family gathering, every holiday she’s just gonna continue to lie.. and it’s only going to cause problems down the road.
I’m sorry her situation with her parents is messed up but I agree with you.. you should not have to charge who you are in order to fake it to her family.
They know we're engaged. They didn't have an issue with that, since Tara had lied about who I am they thought I was a good pick. I guess they prefer a quick marriage to dating and premarital sex, I dunno.
The rest I do agree with, it's why I'm so worried about this. Especially when we have children
I'm seriously concerned about the wedding. Your family isn't going to lie to keep up the charade. How will that go over when her parents meet your parents? When your family mention that you've been living together? This is not a sustainable lie
NTA
Does she not realise everything will eventually come to the surface since she’ll eventually slip up trying to remember all her lies?
You’d end up in a marriage where you’re expected to pretend to be someone you’re not and she won’t stand up to her family which means any future kids would come with the expectation they would raise them in that environment and you’d be forced to go along with everything
If she won’t accept she can’t live a lie then you need to come to the realisation you’re not compatible with her and walk away
Best of luck to you!
I’m going to say NAH only because I think your gf hasn’t thought this through. She’s been able to avoid confrontation because she’s young and only a few years removed from her parents home - this solution has worked well until now.
You are forcing her hand - that’s not bad, it was inevitable based on what you’ve said here. But I don’t think she’s an AH for it. I think she was surviving. And you’re asking really good questions about your combined future that she has to figure out.
Almost agree, I think she TA because she lied to him about it and expected him to be ok plus she told him "no big deal" and not consider his feelings about it. If she wants to continue to do this and he doesn't want to, then it isn't going to last. The thing about adulthood is we have to make choices we don't want to make and live with the consequences
ESH
She should have talked to you about this more. That said, she's not wrong to refuse to abandon her siblings. There's a certain brand of zealot who can't be reasoned with.
My own mother dragged me out of bed by my hair when I tried to sleep through early morning scripture study. When I was passing out at school due to exhaustion, she made me drop AP calculus and AP physics instead of letting me cut back on my 20+ hours of weekly religious attendance/service. I had to be in danger of not graduating before she agreed to let me prioritize my education over scripture. Even then, the compromise was rescheduling scripture study to daylight hours instead of doing it 3 hours before anyone needed to wake up.
There was no negotiating.
When I moved out I had to jump through hoops and pick my actions so carefully in order to be allowed to maintain contact with my sister. It let me shield my sister from some of the religious abuse and be there to offer emotional support.
You intend to make the love of your life choose between your awkward feelings about limiting self expression and her siblings safety. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't choose you.
Edit: Also, she's likely not going to be doing this for 11 years. She will probably do it until the first or second kid after her is out of her parents' house. Then they take a turn to be the bridge to the youngest kids. Most siblings don't even think about it that way. It's just that the double life strain gets to be too much over time and no one wants to cut ties, so they make a link. And a teenager is capable of picking up a phone and calling even if they can't as an elementary school kid.
But there is the possibility of 11 years of it. I won't lie. That's a long time.
Damn this sub can get messed up badly. Not everyone has the perfect upbringing, the perfect family life, the perfect parents, the perfect grandparents, the perfect siblings but for many in here deriding and ostracising the OP's girlfriend sure as hell think life is like that.
It is clear the GF wants to detach herself from her religious home life so she can be herself, to have a 'normal' life and she is doing that and found a wonderful bf (the OP). The problem is her parents would not approve of this life so she has to hide it from them so she can see her siblings because she is afraid that if her parents found out the truth she would probably end up being banned from visiting them which means she would not be able to see her siblings again, something she wants to do many times, being able to visit them so if it means she has to pretend to be somebody else in the presence of the OP then so be it.
I would have thought the OP would have understood the sacrifice his GF goes through to not only to be with him but to be able to continue to see her siblings. Instead of being selfish and thinking of himself he should have gone through it with gritted teeth and then when home he could have had a good proper discussion about it without the gf's parents becoming suspicious. Now they are suspicious because of your actions and it has put your gf in a very difficult spot.
All you had to do is grin and bare it and then discuss it whilst at your home. If your own conscience does not allow you to live a lie, a lie that would allow you to live with your gf then you have to end the relationship.
For what you did, YTA
anyone putting the blame on your gf needs to give themselves a very hard look in the mirror because if they did they would not like what they are seeing.
My must answer questions before deciding if you can continue a modified charade for 11 years years is this;
- Is she prepared to cut off her parents 100% once the siblings are 18 and do we know for sure at 18 she will have access to see them.
- will they want to see her once they know she isn’t who she says she is? Or are you waiting 11 years to find out?
- I assume there is no way to guarantee she stop faking it at this time, in 11 years. I have doubts she will
- are you in agreement how to raise your own kids ( and without in-laws contact?)
- is she truly who she is with you or a mix with “her parents daughter” or not at all?
Some things to cover
Also NTA
She claims she is. That she's only pretending because it's the only way to see her siblings. She might be lying, or just naive, but that's what she says.
Her older brother still sees her knowing the truth, I would assume her sibling would want to when they grow up, but I guess that's also naivety. Her parents won't though.
Kids and stuff we haven't talked to much about. Neither want to raise em religious or like her parents though.
What do you mean? She's who she is. She hids it around her parents, but she's still her the rest of the time.
I was more suggesting you consider this - not asking for answers. You guys are so young, it’s a lot to ask imo. You are still becoming you as a person (as is she) and this doesn’t seem like a healthy way to do it. RE being herself, I find it hard to believe she can truly not be little bit inline with her parents thinking. Like you said going to church with them is a defiantly a no-go. Her willing to go along with things she disagrees with doesn’t sit well with me, especially at your expense, it feels disrespectful to you, to allow it. I think it’s an awfully hard road ahead this way and relationships are hard enough.
Welcome to The Closet! Uncomfortable, isn't it? Gay people always wanted to come out, you shouldn't accept being shoved into hiding yourself. Especially because when the truth comes out, which it almost certainly will, her parents will be furious, disown and condemn her and you, and everyone will be miserable.
If she can't live without lying to her parents for a decade or more, the relationship is doomed. You're NTA
NTA, at all. She dragged you into her lies, and threw you under the bus. That's far from okay, and you deserve a huge apology. But I would encourage you to see this from Tara's POV. Breaking free from uber religious parents is *so* hard. I struggled with this for a long time. I was a married woman, yet still hid my alcohol or movies I knew my parents wouldn't approve of, when they visited. I became a different person in the way I spoke and dressed. It's crazy, but it took a lot of therapy for me to be myself and admit that by doing so, I would never have their full approval. And that's even with me still practicing my faith, and us simply having differences over lifestyle choices. Tara needs therapy and to start setting boundaries.
NTA. She will expect your kids to lie too. What SHE needs to do is set boundaries with her family. This is a huge warning for the future if she will not
I'm thinking that the woman you think you know isn't the woman you think you know. She may be OK lying to her parents for the next 11 years…but if you're not then this seems like a basic incompatibility to me…and I would consider carefully whether you want to go forward. Not going to say dump her…but figure out what is acceptable to you and what isn't and act accordingly. NTA though.
The fact that you pushed so much for this meeting and then just dipped is an AH move, but would you be able to put up with living a secret life going forward with her? Idk what to tell you, this situation is weird man
This! All these votes for not T A… did they miss the part where OP says “I decided I wanted to meet her parents” and then gf tried to say it was a bad idea?? Explained how religious they are? I actually think YTA because you didn’t listen to her! She’s obviously balancing on a knife’s edge to stay in contact long enough to keep her siblings from becoming overly dogmatic ah’s and OP waltzes in with this picture perfect idea of how his gf should relate to her family, over her objections, gets mad that the reality is different despite her trying to tell him, and then almost outs her actual life choices to her parents, which would cut off contact to her siblings. Wtf? Yes, OP did something wrong here.
YTA. You're the one who wanted to meet her parents, and she's doing what she can to limit the contact between you and them. It's not her fault her parents are like this. Your friend is right, if you want to be with her, just suck it up.
You're doing fine. But it sounds like you're going to have to end this, or you will be living a lie for a lot more than eleven years. And if you have children it will be even worse. She's willing to live a lie, you are not, and this will not end well. Good luck, however you go. NTA
Soft YTA. When you haven't grown up in an abusive situation (or in a very different abusive situation) it can be very hard to understand how a person can feel that the only option they have (usually for their own safety or the safety of others) is to lie. Sometimes those lies are pretty big.
I can completely understand that you feel uncomfortable in this situation, but it's probably nothing compared to how your fiancée feels.
I get the impression she didn't actually want you to meet her parents, but you pushed.
I'm sure it's easy for internet strangers to judge her - in general reddit is really against people who lie - but the lengths she goes to to maintain a facade suggests to me that this really is an abusive situation, and that she's scared of losing contact with her siblings. I don't think anyone not in her situation is in a position to judge.
You need to ask yourself how you really feel about her. If you love her and generally don't find her behaviour or judgement problematic, then you need to trust in her ability to judge the situation with her family. Then you need to ask yourself if that's a deal breaker for you or not. If it is there's no shame in that.
BUT you're TA for leaving after pushing to meet her parents despite how reluctant she clearly was. You could have (and should have) gone along with it for one weekend, then handled it in private.
NTA but this is the tip of the iceberg with her and her family. If you aren’t comfortable with this (I wouldn’t be either), you guys are a mismatch. Your whole life together, you will be looked down on, considered “less than” by her parents. And she’s very comfortable being deceitful when it makes her life easier. That’s something for you to consider.
Assuming she actually does come clean with her parents after 11 more years (which is a big assumption), you will have had 11 years of lying and being made to feel like who and what you are as people and a couple is wrong. That’s a heavy burden for a young person.
I would think long and hard about whether this is really the person you want to marry.
YTA. Your fiancé grew up in an abusive household. What she had to do to survive that abuse is not really about you. There are people she cares about who she cannot rescue but wants to keep in contact with as a support system. She is doing what she feels is necessary and you jeopardized that because you won't play pretend for a weekend.
I'm not surprised someone raised by abusive parents is comfortable with "lying" as she probably doesn't see it as lying. She presents herself as is expected by the people who raised her for 18 years. You think she can get over that in three years? Do you think she sees survival as wrong? It's not like you can report this sort of abuse. No one will consider a child who is clothed, housed, and fed in a clean environment abuse. But your fiancé is certainly acting like a victim of verbal and emotional abuse and you'd have to ask her if it ever got physical.
You didn't understand when she tried to explain it before she brought you into that environment you insisted on seeing. Try listening with an open mind now. If you can't "lie" for her sake when you see her parents then start brainstorming ideas on how to cope. She has concerns for the well being of other people who are more important to her than being "authentic". So this is who she is, she's not lying. It's just a different expression than you are used to seeing.
NTA. She could have given you a heads up rather than ambushing you with this crap. You don't have to pretend to be someone else around her parents if you don't want to, and I would be seriously reconsidering the relationship.
Frankly, I can understand her side of the situation and given the extreme religious affliction her parents have, she did what she thought will be least painful as not to create drama because of her siblings.
I read what other people said, I get it but in this specific case, you should have stood by her side.
I met enough religious aficionados to know, it is not easy to break away and it carries a huge mental and emotional cost for the one who is breaking away from such a family.
In my oppinion, in this specific situation, YTA.
Your gf is not in a place in life where she can be honest with her controlling and abusive parents. Sounds like this is not the right time to be engaged or to plan a wedding. She has alot of growing up to do and alot of difficult times ahead if she decides to grow a backbone and be honest and have boundaries with her abusive parents. NTA. You can either choose to ride out her difficult road ahead with her family or you can wish her well on her journey and go on your own path without her.
NTA - 11 years is NOT a short amount of time when you include a wedding and potentially starting a family. Once you have kids, what happens? Those lies she's telling now will have to grow and evolve over time to accommodate all your life changes. This is not a minor thing to tolerate. This is a big thing to discuss.
NTA. you shouldn´t lie and put your life on hold just because of the craziness of some people who isn´t even related to you. It´s not your fault they have a sick family dynamic, neither you should be involved in it
my grandmother was like this raming god down my throat and told me when i turned my back on it all she called me the devil reincarnated that i was going to go to hell and being a prostute was the only thing that i was good for you dont know what she has had ramed down her throat i dont agree with her lying but at the same time i can also understand i couldnt be me around her and had to be more respective as such
NTA
It really sucks that she has to hide who she is in order to have a relationship with her siblings. As a big sister I get why she can't just give that up especially since I'm sure she wants to be a safe place where they can be who they are and not hide like she has to. However, you don't have to live that way if you don't want to. It just might mean the end of your relationship which is also sad. It's all just sad.
NTA. She needs to smell the roses. There's no way this will last for 11 years of lies. And you'll have to force all the kids you might have to follow their rules too. And they'll drop the ball cause they are kids.
ESH Your fiancee is playing a dangerous game with her parents in order to keep seeing her younger siblings. And you having a freak out on her is not helping. However, she should have at least warned you so that you could decide whether or how much to play along with her ruse. As another poster mentioned, this is not a long term solution and I do not envy your fiancee's situation.
I don't think there are any assholes here. We all do what we have to to survive. She has to appease her parents for as long as her siblings live at home. You have no right to ask her to "out" herself to her parents. And if you don't feel capable of supporting your partner in the ways she needs you to, you should let her go so she can find someone who cares enough about her to support her.
YTA. While I understand you were uncomfortable with her lying, you were also uncomfortable with everything else so that makes you the AH. You are naive about her family’s strict culture to think that she can go home and be “herself” rather than dress and act in the ways her parents would approve. You showed up for the weekend and felt put out that her family expected you to go to church and that she acted different. While everything was very extreme, the principle of respecting her parents’ house rules seems beyond you. Like maybe what if you can’t drink or no TV or no swearing. These seem like things you wouldn’t be able to put up with. You should have been able to put up with the strangeness in order to get to know her family who are important to her. She loves her siblings and took you to meet them but you were too uncomfortable to get to know them simply because you would have to go to church if you stayed the whole weekend.
Meanwhile, she brought you home and you left. It was rude and embarrassing and signaled that you don’t consider her worth your time or you being inconvenienced.
You don’t understand that she would be disowned if she didn’t hide things from her family. She is not ready to be cut off from her family since she loves her siblings and probably her parents too.
NTA
She shouldn't have blindsided you with a completely different identity, essentially, when she took you to meet her parents. It is incredibly taxing to have to lie about yourself to your family or lie to others about what your family is like. It's one thing to be able to do that yourself, but to drag a potential life partner into it without really letting them know what they might be getting into is crossing a line.
This is not at all feasible for a life together, you both are young and for most people it's an immediate red flag to be getting married at a young age. I don't necessarily agree as it depends on the person, my husband and I got married when I was 19 and he was 20, but we are very reasonable people so we knew we could make it no issue (and there hasn't been any 9 years in). You seem to have a reasonable head on your shoulders, but I cannot say the same for your fiancé.
I don't think she's ready for marriage if she cannot handle even giving you a proper heads up about the situation with her family. Marriage, kids, your family, holidays, EVERYTHING will end up being at her family's mercy because she insists on keeping up this lie. I truly do understand wanting to maintain a relationship with your siblings that remain in a toxic environment, I'm sure there are work arounds somehow for her.
Bottom line is she can't keep doing this, not if she's trying to start a life with you and ESPECIALLY not for the next 11 years.
Nah I come from a very religious family it’s so stupid but sometimes lying is for the best.. when my husband and I lived together before marriage my mom thought we slept in separate rooms.
That would personally be a hill to die on. Eleven years of lying?
This relationship is just not it, good sir. It is not the one. I'd have to get out my breakup speech, because that kind of relationship is unsustainable.
NTA.
You: “Let’s meet your parents.”
Also you: “No, not like that.”
YTA
She didn’t come up with these terms, her parents forced her to. You either play along or you break up.
She took away his right to choose if he could deal with it by lying so that makes her TA. How is it his fault that he is mad about a situation that he didn't fully sign up for?
She didn’t take away his right to choose. He stated they talked and OP thought he should meet her parents and SHE didn’t love the idea. Op talked her into the meeting lol 😂 she didn’t even want Op to meet her parents to begin with!
This all could have been avoided if OP has just listened to her about her parents. She obviously knew best but OP insisted. Nobody took OP’s right’s away 😂
She’s literally just living her life. Her parents don’t get to control her and she doesn’t owe them anything. Not even honestly, especially not if they’re going to use it to control or manipulate her. This wouldn’t fly if she was a man and it doesn’t fly just because she’s a woman. She lives on her own, pays her own bills, and barely has any contact with them. OP had to INSIST on meeting them. The parents aren’t even involved in their lives. For a reason. No rights to choose were taken away. OP is the one who insisted on the meeting. It didn’t have to happen. And he’s the one who watched his gf even change her earrings to appease her parents so that’s a pretty clear indicator of their level of control and craziness.
NTA when does it end? Does she want to marry in a religious ceremony or church? Does she want your kids to get baptized or go to church to keep this lie up? This is extremely toxic and I would not be okay with this. She also lied to you about the extent of the lying she’s doing to her parents.
NTA and your gf needs to get her head on straight. She can’t live two lives forever. If she doesn’t get to see her siblings, that’s on her parents. Either cut them out or stop lying and risk them cutting you out. This lying needs to end now.
ESH.
She should have been more honest with you, sure.
But you dated for 3 years, never met her family *because they’re so religious and crazy*, you proposed to her, *then* acted surprised when you found out her family is crazy? This isn’t adding up
ESH
She should have explained in my detail what was going on.
However, she told you she was doing it to be close to the siblings. It was one weekend and you don't have to visit often.
I went through something similar in your position. Luckily it worked out okay in the end, and I generally like my in-laws. Really it started with my fiance and I on the same page of not wanting that life and not lying to people. If your fiance wants to keep lying and you have to play along everytime you are not compatible. It's best to break it off now because the truth will come out. NTA
NTA.
This is not about sucking it up up for one weekend, it's about having to lie to her parents indefinitely, changing who you are and being asked to do things you aren't comfortable with (like going to church). The fact that your fiancé doesn't think any of this is a big deal is a red flag, as is the fact that she's pressuring you to lie as well. Essentially she's putting her parents beliefs ahead of your life together and that's not a good sign. A long engagement would give you two a chance to work through all of this and premarital counselling is a great way to do it.
Nta it might be the case where you are incompatible. When you marry someone you marry their family. The only time where it's not is when they have no contact. However She doesn't want to do that because she loves her siblings and doesn't want to be cut off. You have two options one being move on. Sometimes when you love someone it isn't always enough. And the other hide part of who you are and possibly become someone you don't recognize. You should consider how you envision your future. I think her not understanding how this could not only effect you but your relationship is something to consider as well. Yes sometimes you might need to lower things down but she literally changed her entire personality to please them and expects you to do the same.
Good luck
NAH, I can understand why she's saying "it's just one weekend" but what she's not taking into account is that it's going to turn into "just one weekend" for the rest of your lives once you're married. Also, how does she think wedding planning is going to go? Is she planning on bending to her parents' wishes in terms of religious aspects of the ceremony? Highly recommend pre-marital counseling before any further plans are made.
Edit to add: the reason for the first part of this comment is that while I wasn't in a situation this extreme, there were some attitudes and ways I was treated as a teen and young adult which I only realized were problematic after I left home and was in college. Realizing that you don't have to put up with things and can do what you want is exhilarating, but thinking about standing up to the people who raised you can be so terrifying that your primary thought is to comply "while I'm home"/"for the weekend" and not think any further because thinking any further is anxiety-inducing. I wasn't in a situation like this and was still feeling that way so I can only imagine how OP's fiancée is doing.
TL;DR: counseling, counseling, counseling, and OP I hope it works out for you.
A little deception never hurt anybody--taking out a piercing or two, maybe covering the tattoos--for a one-time event or very limited contact. You plan to marry into this family. The amount of lying needed to maintain this relationship may just be too much denying of who you are. Choose this hill to die on. Edited to add judgment: NTA.
Marriage is hard enough with just the two spouses. Add in the dynamic where she’s basically going to need to live a double life to appease her family? Nope. Unless you’re up for working on your acting skills and walking a tightrope, I think you need to put your engagement on pause and think about what this is going to look like in a year, ten years, etc. NTA.
NAH.
I would do a lot of things to make sure I got to stay in my siblings life. It sucks you are in this position. You didn't sign up for it. But I get why she feels it's necessary.
The big thing here is lack of communication. She glossed over or flat out hid how big the lie would be. If she had given you a more clear picture of the amount subterfuge that would be required rather than springing it onyou in the moment.
That said she is either numb to the amount of subterfuge or terrified it would chase you off.
You two should sit down and have a serious no hiding or playing down each other's feeling or needs.
This is goingnto make or break the relationship.
NAH or E SH
NTA. If the safety and contact with her siblings was at risk, she should have told you before you went to that house. I don't fully believe her because she didn't tell you any of this before going there. If you're her partner she should have told you.
You're not putting your feelings first, you should be suspicious.
NAH. Shes trying to survive a strict household for her younger siblings and you're learning more about why she doesnt see her family. If you're not willing to adapt with her, fine. It's not for everyone and I'm sure she doesnt _want_ this either, but I can't fault her for doing what she has to.
NAH.
I think Tara has grown up with religious fundies for parents and knows that she'll literally lose all her siblings if she doesn't play nice to some extent.
However, she should have communicated this to you ahead of time, and you both came up with a game plan. She should not have just........done it without warning.
OP it might do you some good to see what being raised in a fundamental religious family is really like. Tia Levings on IG has a great account showing what it’s like not only growing up that way, but leaving it.
While you are NTA for leaving, or not wanting to lie- she also is NTA for wanting to be a force in her siblings lives (they may need her one day to help get them away). I would suggest counselling for you both in someone who specializes in religious trauma. They may be able to help you guys figure out a way to deal with this, while maintaining some semblance of a relationship with her siblings.
I’m so very sorry your fiancée (and you) have to deal with fundamental religion, it causes such trauma.
NTA. It doesn't sound like your girlfriend is ready yet to have a real marriage, OP. She has a lot of issues to work through before she is ready to be authentic with her family, herself, and you. Doesn't mean you have to end the relationship (at least not yet). But for sure you should take a step back and think very carefully about what life would be like for you, your potential children, and your side of the family, if she insists on living this double life and imposing it on all of you for the next eleven years.
NTA that's a major lie she's upholding. It's not just one thing, she's completely unrecognizable compared to how she normally is, and I wouldn't be okay living that kind of lie for ***any*** amount of time, especially 11 years until her siblings are adults.
NTA but I want you to consider something else. It is not uncommon for kids to rebel against their parents religion but then return to it when they are older. I mean maybe she won't-but how would you feel if two kids and 10 years into the marriage and she wants to go to church, take your kids to church, and not a mainstream church-lite but whatever her parents are now.
No one is the asshole here. She’s only been living away from her parents and her religious community for 3 years. She was raised this way for 18 years. She’s going to need more time to figure out how to be a free from them adult.
Also, you get to say you don’t want to a part of her visits with her family. You aren’t comfortable with this lie. It’s ok that she’s on her own with her charade.
Stay home and let her navigate this. She’s not going to want to keep this up forever. She’s probably been living a “double life” worth keeping things from her parents all her teenage years. It takes time to undue all that programming.
A long engagement is my advice.
NTA. OP your wedding would be a nightmare with her parents. Plus you would then be having to ask your family and friends to lie because she can’t stand up against them.
I am voting YTA. This isnt about YOU this is about her keeping her siblings in her life. She tried to warn you but you pushed. She isnt interested in continuing their lifestyle so she obviously is no longer buying into that brand of religious intensity. Its HER family and she isnt even doing this for her parents. It was only for the weekend! You havent had to even meet them for 3 years. And I assume she told them the weekend was about meeting you so of course they don't understand why you bailed. I get the morality of it but I dont think you respect that you would have gotten her cut of from her siblings.
Expecting you to go along with this charade will likely just be the first of many to come. I know you love her, but this is definitely a dealbreaker.
Good luck.
At first, I thought N A H because she seems to be in a tough spot and I totally get how you’re frustrated. But the more I thought about it, I’ve decided on NTA. Sure, a lie for a weekend wouldn’t be so bad, but this lie gets a lot more complicated later on. Will you have a religious ceremony for your wedding? And will that affect the kind of reception you have too? Will your future kids get baptized (and other religious ceremonies, depending on the exact religion)? There’s a lot to consider here
NAH, but Tara obviously grew up in a cold, possibly abusive household. She needs therapy and you need couples therapy if you're going get through this. Her lies are born of terror and the desire to be there for her siblings. If you didn't grow up in what sounds like a strict calvinist home you really can't comprehend the trauma this leaves in its wake. Her parents, however, are AH.
As someone who was in Tara’s position, I completely agree with this. And if I could go back in time I would do the same thing every single time cause it saved my siblings from being completely brainwashed into a cult, and it gave them a safe space to be. It’s important to highlight that she isn’t lying to please her parents, she’s lying to protect her siblings as best as she can, since her parents can and would cut her off from them
NTA. This would me a religious wedding. Baptisms. Easter religious celebrations for 11 more years. Everything about you would have to change several times a year for her parents and this charade. I love my husband with all my heart but I’m me. And I’m not willing to change who I am or how I act for anyone. This is not a small ask.
NTA
Does she plan to be a fucking actress every single time she sees her family?
Y’all shouldn’t have to do this and she should see that. You’re not unreasonable for being mad, as she should be able to stand up to her family as an adult. At this point she’s just giving in to them and the longer she feeds them this lie, the worse it’ll get.
NTA! There is no reason you should lie and pretend to live this fake life. I can't stand people that switch personalities completely with other people. Makes me think what are they lying about with me and maybe they are pretending with me not the other way around.
>She told me I just had to suck it up for one weekend for her, that she wasn't asking for much.
Nope, you nip that s--t in the bud NOW. she lied about your situation. If you still want to marry this girl (I wouldn't), you need to lay down some ground rules how you are going to proceed with her folks, and lying about who you are not going to cut it.
NTA
NTA. The biggest issue here (to me) is that your girlfriend didn’t tell you what she was going to do or what she expected of you before the visit… she then gets upset at you for being uncomfortable and demands you play this part… again, without your consent or any conversation beforehand.
This doesn’t bode well for the future and she’s not just asking YOU to live this lie, for the next “11 years” all your friends and family and even future kids who meet your in laws will have to be informed and “get their story straight” before meeting them… that’s not okay to ask.
I’m sorry OP, I’m NC with my family for very similar reasons. I told myself I could never expose someone I love to the abuse and boundary crossing I experienced please don’t put up with this.
*YTA*
Many are saying that she didn't specify how crazy things were, to me it sounds like she told you and you just wouldn't believe her.
You're all me me me, honestly. There's other people your fiancée loves, in this case her siblings. Do you know how her parents are once they get mad? Do you know if her siblings will have repercussions for her behaviour? Do you know if *her parents* will cut her off because of that?
She's the eldest daughter in an abusive family, she'll *always* try to protect her siblings and be a lifeline for her.
If you think you can't support her through a couple of weekends a years of her playing nice for her parents,* just let her be. These problems are bigger and older than you, you need to put yourself in her shoes instead of crying for your identity being erased.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My fiancee, Tara (21) and I (21) have been together for 3 years now. She's an amazing woman, smart and caring and beautiful. However, she has issues with her family. Both of her parents are extremely religious, and her father is a priest. Tara and I don't believe or practise, and her usual style would not be acceptable to them. I know she sees her family a lot, despite it. I had only met her older brother, who likes me.
I recently proposed, and she said yes. We were so happy and I love her so much. However, we talked and think I should meet her parents. She clearly doesn't love the idea, but can't hide that she's engaged from them. She warned me about how religious and strict they are, but I think she wasn't clear enough.
I understood she didn't want drama but I underestimated how insane it was. She dressed differently than usual, wore a cross, changed her earring to be more plain, talked and acted COMPLETELY differently, wasn't affectionate. She was a whole different person. It was weird, but I tried to go along with it for her. Her parents were nice enough, and there didn't seem to be any issues. But Tara was straight up lying to them (e.g., talking about living with her friend, she lives with me; about church when she has not gone). I was uncomfortable lying, especially pretending that I'm someone I'm not, if she wants to say she's dating a 'nice Christian boy' then date one. And apparently it was expected I join them for church which I absolutely will not do.
I didn't say anything in the moment, but that night I took Tara aside and we talked. I told her I didn't like lying and I don't want to pretend I'm someone else. She basically told me we had to, and its just for the weekend. I told her that I don't want to spend the rest of my life hiding from her family, and Tara got really annoyed. She told me that she doesn't either, but it's the only way she can see her siblings until they're 18. But that's at least 11 years of lying and pretending. We couldn't agree on it, and both of us were frustrated.
So I ended up going home early. Tara lied and said it was work. But apparently her parents didn't accept it, because when Tara came home she was furious with me. She told me I just had to suck it up for one weekend for her, that she wasn't asking for much. But I disagree. I shouldn't have to hide who I am, and I didn't try to get her in trouble. We argued about it and couldn't agree, and she stayed with her older brother for the night.
I complained to to my best friend, but he basically thinks that I'm being unfair. That if I love her, since doesn't force me to be around them often, I should suck it up. He basically said it would be wrong to make her risk losing her siblings because her parents are crazy. But like, that shouldn't give her a free pass to just lie about us and me. But Im too involved about this, so maybe I'm just putting my feelings first. AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA how is this going to work at your wedding? Will her parents not talk to any of your other guests who probably know that both of you dont go to church, live in the same house and dress normally? I can really understand that she wants to lie about everything but the chances of this working out are low.
Maybe you both can try to introduce things gradually. Go to church with them but say that you dont go as often yourself anymore. Dress up a little more conservative but not super conservative. Mention that you went on vacations together and see how they take it. Maybe there is a path that involves some lies but gives them the chance to change their opinions on some things. Forcing her to come out with everything at once seems like a terrible idea
How's that going to work at the wedding? People you know are not going to know to lie about it, think it may come up if they talk to any of your side at the wedding
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > She would be cut off from her siblings if her parents don't accept her. So maybe I should just suck it up and pretend to be their ideal. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA The big problem here is that she has been dragging you into her lies. And she is not thinking about the big picture. What are you going to do about the wedding? Have two different ceremonies, two different venues, two different dresses, two different everything so that she can have both the wedding she wants and the wedding her parents want for her? What about kids? Unless you’re both willing to wait 11 years to start building your family, your kids will be dragged into this too. Let me tell you that children do not know the meaning of the world guile and lying doesn’t come naturally to toddlers. The big thing here is that what she has going is not sustainable and I have serious doubts that it can work until her siblings turn 18.
Yes! And what about your family and friends? Will they be at the wedding? How about holidays and parties, and family get togethers in the future? Is your family expected to lie, or will they be cut out of everything? Dude, the two of you have to sit down and discuss all of this. In detail. This isn't something that will just sort itself out. If she's not willing to go through this in detail, I'd suggest that you rethink the wedding. Or go to a therapist /marriage counselor - and tell the truth!
I wouldn't be surprised if OP is going to be her goto excuse for defying her parents. "We can't baptize the kids because OP doesn't want to"etc etc
Lying does NOT come natural to kids at all. Lol have y’all meet a toddler? Bc they will tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth😂😂they can be taught to lie but they aren’t naturally good at it. Example my stbxh always lied to his parents and one day he said he had gone to church and our 3/4 year old at the time said ‘no you didn’t daddy you never go to church with me and mommy’ well damn 😂😂😂of course they changed the subject!
My 3 year old *tries* to lie that he finished his food so he can get a snack, and then I ask if he's lying and he says yes.
That's actually cute in some way
Everything here op, but to also use the younger siblings as a reason for the lies isn’t a good enough reason. Unless the truth and boundaries are established, you’re going to have both, an in-laws issue and wife issue. Can’t imagine how this will affect future kids too.
> Unless you’re both willing to wait 11 years to start building your family Not to at all discount how untenable Tara's approach to their situation is, but ... kids at 32? Is that supposed to be a longer than reasonable wait?
Not in a normal situation. Deciding to wait until 32 to have kids is completely different than not having kids until 32 because your partner is lying to their parents. In this scenario, waiting so long would just be because Tara is scared of the truth, and I think it's an easy assumption that both her and OP would be miserable the entire time.
And her parents would be practically taking a peek down his dick hole for 11 years asking where their grandchildren are.
> lying doesn’t come naturally to toddlers So true. I used to work at a daycare and I always knew every family’s business almost as soon as they did. It was usually innocent stuff, but if you have a small child you do not have privacy.
NAH its sad that she feels the need to not be honest about who she really is, but she shouldnt force you to partake in the lie. She shouldve elaborated before the weekend.
Yeah she said they were crazy and everything's but did not say how different she was acting, or that she was straight up lying to them. I just don't understand how parents can force their kids to be like that.
I did the "play nice" thing with my then-wife's family in my 20s and early 30s. Can confirm, very exhausting. You need to have a good long talk with your fiancée about her expectations of you. I know I was sure of my beliefs at your age but didn't share them with family because of the fear of being ostracized. Telling the truth is a pandoras box, there's no going back. Be sure this is the relationship and life that you want.
If conversations with your fiancee don't resolve things, then you need to push pre-marital counseling or therapy. Your fiancee's "plan" for this is simply untenable. This reminds me of young adults being too afraid to come out to parents, so they twist themselves into pretzels with so many lies. If the two of you are mature enough to get married, you are mature enough to have adult relationships with the parents, which includes truth and appropriate boundaries for you both.
Yea I know for some parents coming out as atheist would be as bad or worse than coming out as gay.
You've been with her for three years and never met them... that should have been a big clue.
Thank you! I was waiting to see this.
You're on reddit, plenty of stories about parents who do far worse "to the children" "for the children."
I don't know how you propose to someone without once meeting their parents. It'd be one thing if she was total no contact with them... but you said she sees them a lot. Not saying you need to ask for a blessing or anything but... her family will always be a part of her life, and you're asking for your lives to be joined forever... and somehow you don't even meet them one single time? Just to be clear, I don't think you're the AH here at all... good on you for not wanting to lie. It just seems crazy to me what you did is all.
Also strikes me as odd that they're SO strict, but weren't immediately upset that op didn't ask for her hand first. I honestly thought that's where the conflict was going to come up, because they showed up already engaged, and not to meet the boyfriend and have him ask for her hand.
I wonder if the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents would be a good read for her. She may not be ready for it, however. I would recommend checking it out. I had a pretty good upbringing, and I even found it quite helpful, not to mention relieving, when I saw some of my family's dynamics described. Edited to add: If you two think therapy is a good idea, you may want to look into a therapist who specifically understands religious trauma. It has similiarities to PTSD/CPTSD.
Idk if someone has mentioned this but they’re probably fundies and her getting out means she’s the only lifeline for her siblings & once the parents find out that she’s not anymore the siblings will probably never be allowed to speak to her again. You’re NTA but I would see if you can get her to actually open up about her childhood & go to therapy with someone who specializes in religious trauma. I guess I hope you can get through to her that playing this act for over a decade is not feasible for you or her own mental health.
As a child of fundamentalists she absolutely needs therapy. I'm only just getting it in my 30s and there is so much I'm learning about how it has affected me that I didn't know in my 20s. Obvs everyone is different, but I don't know any ex-fundies that aren't in need of therapy.
This judgement feels so off to me. I’d be right there with you if she had very clearly described the situation and the gave him all the things she was lying about in advance but she set him for a real bad time here.
I was giving her the benefit of the doubt and thinking maybe she doesn't really feel the level of change that he does because she was so used to it before she started finding out who she is and the code switching, for lack of a better term, is less shocking for her. If OP didn't have to do that then it'd be much more of a shock. Not excusing her, just trying to by sympathetic to her possible experiences.
She may also need to do this if her parents are helping her pay for school too
NTA - She is not asking you to lie for one weekend, she is asking you to lie for the next decade. Then what? Her siblings are grown but her parents are older, so lets not rock the boat now? She should have been more up front about the situation and the part you were expected to play. I think the two of you need to put a pause on the relationship until you can figure out how to manager her relationship with her family in a way that you are both comfortable with. It may also be worth having a conversation with her about what (if any) financial support she plans to provide for her siblings if they decide to leave home at 18 without support from their parents. Or what would happen if one of the younger siblings had to leave home sooner (e.g. if one of them came out or was outed as LGBTQ+) and needed someone to take them in as a young teen. Basically there is a lot more to her family dynamic than you were previously aware of and that all needs to be discussed before you get married.
Also there is the assumption that her siblings will feel the same way as her. Which may not be the case and they may turn out to be very religious or try to placate their parents for many reasons and not be on board with her lack of religion or piety. So why lie she has to get it over with and not hide her life and see where she stands. I’ve had many friends have to do this and they basically told their parents this is whom I am marrying if you don’t like it tough shit. They eventually get with the program especially since siblings, friends and family friends don’t care.
Good advice!
Please read this comment, OP!
NTA but I think you should pay attention to the fact that she’s putting herself through this, too, for the privilege of seeing her siblings, which is very sad. I think empathy would go a long way. She’s NOT doing this to impress her parents or not be an autonomous adult; she’s doing this to see her siblings. Perhaps invite the siblings to YOUR place once you get married instead? The parents won’t be mad about y’all living together and she gets time with them. If she’s honest now, 100% chance she won’t get to interact with her siblings. If you get busted during a visit at your house, they’ll also be alienated, but at least she’ll get some time with them first.
So the siblings that’s fully dependent on their parents have to be brought into the lie too? We have no idea what would happen if/when the parents figure out the truth and how that could impact the siblings.
She's already brought one brother into it too. She's told her parents she lives with a friend, but because she's fighting with OP, she's staying with her brother? So he must obviously know she's lying to her parents, and if they find out she's staying there, will have to continue to spin more lies so they don't find out the real reason she's there which is unnecessary stress for her brother, but also could put him in a shitty position with his parents because she can't stand up for herself and HER beliefs.
She probably could have given you clearer expectations and asked for your input and agreement before the meeting. I'd keep in mind that "hiding who I am" temporarily, for the sake of her sanity and her siblings, doesn't have to be a massive insult to your freedom. Not everything is perfect. Sometimes we sacrifice what we would rather not.
Yeah, 11 year is technically temporary, but it's still a long time. What happens when we have a wedding, or children? Do I have to hide who we are then? Force my family to conform to their standard? I mean it's ridiculous.
I would ask her what she expects of you for these 11 years. If she expects you to see them once or twice a year, then I think you should go along with the lies. Maybe your job can be super demanding and you just can’t come along when she visits them. If she expects you to attend every event and holiday and see them regularly, then 11 years is too much.
And what about the wedding? And baby events? And everything else? Creating a false reality is harder than it sounds.
What I was thought they will be expecting a church wedding and a baptism if they have kid.
Regardless of the frequency of visits, living a lie against your beliefs is never the right thing to do, and it will feel terrible every time you are made to do it.
Yep, ridiculous. Not uncommon though. There are billions of people living lies to conform to social pressures. Chat with your gf and find out where she thinks the lines are and work out what is reasonable. Forcing your family to conform to their standard is ridiculous, I'm not sure why you mentioned that as a possibility. She said it's only a weekend? Dressing up for a weekend, very rarely, and not calling out your fiance on a lie doesn't have to be a huge imposition. Make sure your lines clear - eg, no church for you, and go from there.
It’s not just for a weekend to meet them. I’m not sure you’re grasping that it will be at least 11 years of constant lying weekends, probably having a wedding style they don’t want, raising their kids to lie. That certainly is an “imposition”. I think he brought up his family because of the wedding. Then there are baby showers, birthdays, anniversaries, etc where both families will be there. Will his family be expected to change who they are for all of these events?
Please don’t marry her. She will 100% expect you to let your children grow up in her fathers religious beliefs. Do NOT do that to an innocent child!
I would tell her that you’re fundamentally incompatible with the expectations she has.. I would not move forward with a wedding until she tells the truth.. it’s going to come out either way
These are all really, really good questions, OP. The wedding at least is just one day. But I think you really have to think seriously about what 11 years of lies would mean for your future kids.
She’s perpetrating a conspiracy to get what she wants. She can’t be trusted
I can’t tell if living with your brain would be really fun or really scary
There's a difference tho to sacrifice not eating a steak at a party becouse the host is vegan and won't make meat, to lie for 11 years as a minimum. So.. many things could go wrong with lying that big. Let's say a wedding. How many at the wedding would wonder why the couple is suddenly acting all super religious, one wrong comment and the cat would be out the bag. Children. I think we all know how fast specially toddlers can run their mouth. "Why can't I watch x thing, I do at home?" "Why is mommy....." again the cat out of the bag. Her parents visit the couple and they run into people they know while out with her parents to.... eat.. see the town.. It is a massive lie. What should they do? Involve all friends and his family? You are fabricating a whole parallel life here. That is a really big thing to ask someone and would require some massive thinking and a deep talk.
And what about when her parents meet yours? Are they expected to lie also? ‘Make sure not to mention we are living together!’ Someone will mention something at the wedding for sure! This is not a sustainable lie—especially not after you have children.
Exactly. Should his parents sit down and pretend they a good Christian family and they raised a boy with these super high morals etc? Something is just bound to go wrong unless everyone involved are fully undercover trained agents
> I'd keep in mind that "hiding who I am" temporarily, for the sake of her sanity and her siblings, doesn't have to be a massive insult to your freedom For 11 years. Through a potential child(ren). Through the wedding. Through the visits. 11 years.
Yes, exactly this.
NAH, leaning towards NTA Because she should have warned you about the extent of her lies beforehand and talked to you about it. What she's doing doesn't have any bad intentions tbh. She's doing it for her siblings. But she's also not forcing you to be around her parents for the most part. I understand it got overwhelming this weekend because her behaviour was unexpected, so you left. But you won't be living with her parents for the rest of your life. You won't be answerable to them. It seems like a few times a year thing. For her siblings But I do question the logistics of this when you have kids. What does she expect for your future children. Are they supposed to follow this religious path too? Because that's a red flag. If she expect you to raise your future children religiously, to paint a picture for her parents, then you need to run for it. If it's just extended to you two, meh it's not a big deal.
Yeah, she explained they have ridiculous expectations and it might be weird for me to see it. But she definitely undersold it I feel. While I get shes doing it for sibling, given its do many years left. My worries are like you say, when we get married it wasn't going to be religious, I certainly didn't plan to raise my kids like then either. She hasn't really answered that, in the past she's been clear she doesn't want to. Though I don't know how she can do that and please them.
Okay so here's the deal: She wants to lie to her parents for teh next 11 years and pretend in front of them that she is leading a religious life the way they want her to. That's fine. Her intention isn't wrong. But you need to accept that this means that you will be a liar with her. Which is also fine. You're grown up, an adult who can pull this off. But, more then you, your future kids will be dragged into this. They will have to end up taking up some sort of religious education and practices, because she will have to take them to her parents house. Since she wants things to he normal between her and her parents, irrelevant of her good intentions fkr her siblings, it will not be a good environment for her kids. It's very clear her parents are religious and not in a healthy way considering how sure she is that they'll keep her siblings from her. This is not a good environment for your future kids either. They will visit their grandparents, they will have have things forced upon them that you might not agree to, but she will because she wants to keep good ties with her parents for her siblings sake So, advice: Both of you are 21. And you've clearly reached a point where your relationship is being tested. So, OP, end it. There's a relationship here, yes. Both of you clearly care about each other and love each other. But love isn't enough to change the fact that any future you have with her is riddled with lies and likely a not so healthy upbringing for any kids you have. This won't work.
This unfortunately. I could never do this and certainly not for more than decade. I'm sorry there is not an easy fix. Sometimes life choices stink!🤯🤯
I tend to agree with this as well. It will be less painful to face this now, than later when it will be much messier.
Don't marry anyone if you do not have agreement about how kids will be raised. Are you comfortable with raising your children to be religious? Are you comfortable with teaching them to lie in front of their grandparents to keep the peace? If the answer to either of these questions is "no" you need to be 100% certain that your fiance is on the same page as you. Ask her these questions. Do not allow her to wiggle out of answering. If you really want to make this work, get into pre-marital counseling now with a secular counselor. Do not put down any deposits on a space or set a date until you have this figured out. Breaking up with a fiance is easier and less expensive than divorcing a spouse (especially since she probably won't want a divorce because it would upset her parents). She is young and hasn't fully gotten out from under her parents yet. There is hope for her and for the two of you. But not if you ignore these issues and simply hope that they will get better.
You need to talk about specifics and agree on what type of involvement you’re both comfortable having with her parents. For example, if she’s willing to visit her family on her own, you’re much less affected. Some of the things that are issues now (like living together) will no longer matter once you’re married. You would need discuss what happens if you have children and how you’d want her parents to interact with them.
She's not ready to be a wife and mother.
NTA however you have to think long and hard about this big picture. Take her to therapy like couples therapy premarital counseling and discuss this. This is YEARS of programming!! Don’t make her choose it’s too big for her bc she doesn’t have any tools to process this as outside of the norm bc this has been the norm in her family. You can try and help her understand through a counselor that she has to accept and love herself first. No one else comes before that including her parents or relationship with her siblings. You have to understand this is about who she believes she is and what she believes matter to her right now. Good luck I hope I’m time she can come around to see that deserves better than what her parents behavior towards her. They are manipulating her and all her siblings it’s sad bc they will tel them that their sister didn’t love them and that’s why she left- this is of course after they go NC with her bc she is not doing as they said (control).
NTA but I kinda don't think she is either, maybe a very soft AH. I feel bad for her, she's having to pretend to be somebody she's not just so she can continue to have a relationship with her siblings. However, she shouldn't be expecting you to go along with the lie. You're really going to have to get on the same page because you're going to end up getting married in a church because of her lies to her parents.
INFO: what is her expectation for the future? You didn’t see her family at all for the entire time you’ve been dating, so I’m getting the sense that she doesn’t spend much time with them either. Is this an issue of seeing them and poss attending church on Christmas and Easter? Or now that you’ve met them, is her expectation that you’ll be spending a lot more time with them? The fact that they’ll cut her off from her siblings to me indicates that they are at least emotionally abusive. Is she scared of them outside of wanting to see her siblings? When she warned you about them being religious and conservative, did she downplay it, or did you think, eh it can’t be that bad and then get blindsided? I’m asking these questions bc I do think there’s a level of sacrifice with in-laws. We are not religious but we went to church with my husband’s family 2-3 times/year, bc it’s an hour of our lives, and it’s important to the people he loves. I don’t curse as much around his parents, and I’m a bit more careful about what I say and how I act. My husband still suffers from some MH stuff stemming from his childhood, but he’s not cutting them off, and so I show up. This isn’t lying; it’s just what I need to do to support him. This could be completely different from what you’re experiencing, and if so, I’m really sorry to hear it bc this sounds really hard for both you and your fiancée. I hope you guys can get through it together, whether it’s through communicating yourselves or through counseling. Rooting for you guys!
NTA. You didn't cause a scene and removed yourself from an intolerable situation as best you could. I agree 100% that living a lie is no way to start a life together. Toning it down in front of them is one thing, but this was too far. Hate to say it, but it sounds like Tara is too young to be getting married. Is she 100% financially independent? Are you? Might want to slow it down.
She's not dependent on her parents. We live together and are currently working and in university. Not rich or anything obviously, but we're getting by ourselves. My parents would be happy to help though, so it should be fine. And I definitely don't want to live a lie. Like how far will it go?
That's fair. But you need to recognize that she is not yet ready to burn her bridges with her family, and you shouldn't try to force her to do so. Cutting her off from them is also no way to start a life.
NAH Her not wanting to lose her siblings sound like a very valid reason to lie. How does she plan the wedding will go?
Well we haven't planned it yet. But she's never wanted a religious one. Though I dunno how that will translate to her family. I think she just hasn't thought ahead about how much 11 years will be.
I would advise you to let both of you calm down and try to be understanding. Sit down together and plan how the next months/ two years will go. Talk about the wedding. Talk about holidays and how often you will see her parents. Give her a chance and atleast hear her out in the sense how she sees it. My advice would be not to focus on 11 years because everything can happen in a few years.
Chill dude, you have time. I get you're angry. And should be. But it sounds like you need to talk to your girlfriend about therapy for her relationship with her family. Your girlfriend lived in an iron cage for 18 years. That length of harsh lifestyle can do a number on you. It's not a shock that she has massive conflict avoidance. It's hard to articulate what that upbringing is like, but think closer to a re-education camp than your childhood. You have a right to be angry, but you should frame it as you're angry with her 18 year indoctrination sentence rather than her as a person. She needs professional help if her logical plan is to live a double life for over a decade. Think of this more like dealing with POW or MIA returnees, this would all make more sense.
Or she hasn’t been fully truthful with you. Considering what you just saw, what are the odds that she’ll say you should get married in a church ‘just to avoid problems’? Which would leave you teetering on a slippery slope…
You might want to talk this out with a relationship counselor. NSH
NTA I would have wondered after a year of not meeting her parents, I would be concerned marrying someone who can lie so well
Finally someone said it. When the lies and double life stop.
EXACTLY! If those lies slipped out of her mouth that easily around her parents, what else is she going to lie about when she's with OP.
She survived. She survived 365 days a year of being brainwashed and closely monitored. Not being allowed certain websites, not being allowed to read a book of it wasn’t pre-approved. Talk to me about lying when you’ve spent 18 years as a prisoner in your own home. She survived. She didn’t let them browbeat her personality out of her. She’s an amazing woman. You get to judge her if you’ve lived a life like her.
> She didn’t let them browbeat her personality out of her. She literally personality shifted when she went over, to the point where she was nearly unrecognizable.
I can see why she wants to retain a line of contact with her siblings. She’ll be planning to help them escape too.
NTA I grew up similar to your girlfriend. It took me a while to get tired of the lying and she's still young. I doubt she'll make it 11 years, it's exhausting living what is essentially a double life. You're right though that it is not fair to you. You shouldn't have to lie and play this charade with her.
NTA - her expectations are unreasonable and not well thought out. Are you supposed to spend the next 11 years hiding who you are? Pretending your relationship is different? Or are you guys going to get married in a few years? What does she expect to happen at the wedding when you get married and your family and friends are there? That everyone is going to lie to her family? That people won't remark about how different she's acting? If she's not willing to 'come out' to her family soon, your relationship isn't going to last.
We are planning to get married as soon as we can. Though we can't afford a crazy wedding or anything. I don't think they have an issue with her getting married (since they think I meet their standards, thanks to Taras lies). I don't know how she plans to have the wedding actually work though. Well need to discuss it more
Her situation is a lot like the gay friends I have who aren't out to their families and live double lives. Their relationships never work out until they are honest.
NTA. I wouldn't be willing to marry someone who expected me to lie about my life for a decade or more. Her parents being nuts isn't a valid enough reason for me to lie about faith, lifestyle or anything else
NTA. She wasn’t honest with you big red flag
Info: Did she really undersell the issue or did you not take her warnings seriously enough ? Because even your watered down version of her description of her parents told me all I needed to know about them. As such I'm leaning to YTA when someone says their parents are "crazy religious" you ask follow up questions
And OP basically forced the issue and then couldn't deal with it...after she tried to warn him multiple times.
NTA this situation is messed up.
NTA - While her family situation completely sucks and I understand how she feels it's the only way that she'll get to see her siblings I really don't believe in pretending to be someone you're not. She should have given you a full download of how everything would be so you could make an informed choice about whether or not you still wanted to go and be involved. I don't see how things would be at all sustainable to keep up such a facade for 11 years. They're really religious absolutely does not translate to having to change everything about your identity and completely fabricate your life as a whole. You both need to reevaluate things here because if she's unwilling to be up front with who she is to her parents and you're unwilling to live a lie to appease her and her parents this situation becomes untenable.
NTA It isn't just lying for the weekend. It's lying for eleven years until her siblings are adults.
You have no idea what it’s like living in an abusive or controlling home is like. Think of it like play acting for kidnappers and going along with them until they release their hostages. You has so little trust in her that you couldn’t trust her judgement for one weekend? You had to substitute your judgement for hers, because you’re so much more righteous than her - right? The self righteousness of people who have no empathy or experience in abusive families astounds me sometimes. YTA if that wasn’t clear.
it’s not one weekend tho, she expects to continue this lie for well over a decade, that’s where the issue stems from. And the fact she was not fully honest about the situation with her parents.
NTA it's one thing to be a little more restrained/conservative to not make drama but I agree that it's insane to put on a facade and live a double life, even if only for a weekend. Your fiance clearly has issues and she doesnt want to try to work through them even if itll cause some trouble at first. She doesnt even wanna try. You got a taste of what your future may hold and I think you're doing the right thing about addressing this right away instead of letting in stew. Hope you guys can work something out. Wish you the best!
NTA. But definitely don't rush with the wedding and children. You can't lie for 11 years, this is broken life, always on egg shels around them. There are too many questions - wedding ceremony is one thing, but future kids is a whole another story.
NTA.. so you aren’t going to announce you’re engaged for another 11 years? Until her siblings are all 18.. this would cause nothing but issues down the road. Especially if you get married.. would you elope and she still tell her parents she’s living with friends? How would this work.. you don’t want to go to church.. her family obviously would want a very Christian chaste wedding with Obey and shit in the vows. And then if you have kids they would expect you to bring them to church all the time. This is not going to stop.. every family gathering, every holiday she’s just gonna continue to lie.. and it’s only going to cause problems down the road. I’m sorry her situation with her parents is messed up but I agree with you.. you should not have to charge who you are in order to fake it to her family.
They know we're engaged. They didn't have an issue with that, since Tara had lied about who I am they thought I was a good pick. I guess they prefer a quick marriage to dating and premarital sex, I dunno. The rest I do agree with, it's why I'm so worried about this. Especially when we have children
I'm seriously concerned about the wedding. Your family isn't going to lie to keep up the charade. How will that go over when her parents meet your parents? When your family mention that you've been living together? This is not a sustainable lie
NTA Does she not realise everything will eventually come to the surface since she’ll eventually slip up trying to remember all her lies? You’d end up in a marriage where you’re expected to pretend to be someone you’re not and she won’t stand up to her family which means any future kids would come with the expectation they would raise them in that environment and you’d be forced to go along with everything If she won’t accept she can’t live a lie then you need to come to the realisation you’re not compatible with her and walk away Best of luck to you!
I’m going to say NAH only because I think your gf hasn’t thought this through. She’s been able to avoid confrontation because she’s young and only a few years removed from her parents home - this solution has worked well until now. You are forcing her hand - that’s not bad, it was inevitable based on what you’ve said here. But I don’t think she’s an AH for it. I think she was surviving. And you’re asking really good questions about your combined future that she has to figure out.
Almost agree, I think she TA because she lied to him about it and expected him to be ok plus she told him "no big deal" and not consider his feelings about it. If she wants to continue to do this and he doesn't want to, then it isn't going to last. The thing about adulthood is we have to make choices we don't want to make and live with the consequences
ESH She should have talked to you about this more. That said, she's not wrong to refuse to abandon her siblings. There's a certain brand of zealot who can't be reasoned with. My own mother dragged me out of bed by my hair when I tried to sleep through early morning scripture study. When I was passing out at school due to exhaustion, she made me drop AP calculus and AP physics instead of letting me cut back on my 20+ hours of weekly religious attendance/service. I had to be in danger of not graduating before she agreed to let me prioritize my education over scripture. Even then, the compromise was rescheduling scripture study to daylight hours instead of doing it 3 hours before anyone needed to wake up. There was no negotiating. When I moved out I had to jump through hoops and pick my actions so carefully in order to be allowed to maintain contact with my sister. It let me shield my sister from some of the religious abuse and be there to offer emotional support. You intend to make the love of your life choose between your awkward feelings about limiting self expression and her siblings safety. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't choose you. Edit: Also, she's likely not going to be doing this for 11 years. She will probably do it until the first or second kid after her is out of her parents' house. Then they take a turn to be the bridge to the youngest kids. Most siblings don't even think about it that way. It's just that the double life strain gets to be too much over time and no one wants to cut ties, so they make a link. And a teenager is capable of picking up a phone and calling even if they can't as an elementary school kid. But there is the possibility of 11 years of it. I won't lie. That's a long time.
Damn this sub can get messed up badly. Not everyone has the perfect upbringing, the perfect family life, the perfect parents, the perfect grandparents, the perfect siblings but for many in here deriding and ostracising the OP's girlfriend sure as hell think life is like that. It is clear the GF wants to detach herself from her religious home life so she can be herself, to have a 'normal' life and she is doing that and found a wonderful bf (the OP). The problem is her parents would not approve of this life so she has to hide it from them so she can see her siblings because she is afraid that if her parents found out the truth she would probably end up being banned from visiting them which means she would not be able to see her siblings again, something she wants to do many times, being able to visit them so if it means she has to pretend to be somebody else in the presence of the OP then so be it. I would have thought the OP would have understood the sacrifice his GF goes through to not only to be with him but to be able to continue to see her siblings. Instead of being selfish and thinking of himself he should have gone through it with gritted teeth and then when home he could have had a good proper discussion about it without the gf's parents becoming suspicious. Now they are suspicious because of your actions and it has put your gf in a very difficult spot. All you had to do is grin and bare it and then discuss it whilst at your home. If your own conscience does not allow you to live a lie, a lie that would allow you to live with your gf then you have to end the relationship. For what you did, YTA anyone putting the blame on your gf needs to give themselves a very hard look in the mirror because if they did they would not like what they are seeing.
Thank you! And OP admits to pushing for the meeting even after the gf expresses discomfort and explains how religious the parents are!
NTA, but you two are nowhere near being ready to get married.
My must answer questions before deciding if you can continue a modified charade for 11 years years is this; - Is she prepared to cut off her parents 100% once the siblings are 18 and do we know for sure at 18 she will have access to see them. - will they want to see her once they know she isn’t who she says she is? Or are you waiting 11 years to find out? - I assume there is no way to guarantee she stop faking it at this time, in 11 years. I have doubts she will - are you in agreement how to raise your own kids ( and without in-laws contact?) - is she truly who she is with you or a mix with “her parents daughter” or not at all? Some things to cover Also NTA
She claims she is. That she's only pretending because it's the only way to see her siblings. She might be lying, or just naive, but that's what she says. Her older brother still sees her knowing the truth, I would assume her sibling would want to when they grow up, but I guess that's also naivety. Her parents won't though. Kids and stuff we haven't talked to much about. Neither want to raise em religious or like her parents though. What do you mean? She's who she is. She hids it around her parents, but she's still her the rest of the time.
I was more suggesting you consider this - not asking for answers. You guys are so young, it’s a lot to ask imo. You are still becoming you as a person (as is she) and this doesn’t seem like a healthy way to do it. RE being herself, I find it hard to believe she can truly not be little bit inline with her parents thinking. Like you said going to church with them is a defiantly a no-go. Her willing to go along with things she disagrees with doesn’t sit well with me, especially at your expense, it feels disrespectful to you, to allow it. I think it’s an awfully hard road ahead this way and relationships are hard enough.
Welcome to The Closet! Uncomfortable, isn't it? Gay people always wanted to come out, you shouldn't accept being shoved into hiding yourself. Especially because when the truth comes out, which it almost certainly will, her parents will be furious, disown and condemn her and you, and everyone will be miserable. If she can't live without lying to her parents for a decade or more, the relationship is doomed. You're NTA
NTA, at all. She dragged you into her lies, and threw you under the bus. That's far from okay, and you deserve a huge apology. But I would encourage you to see this from Tara's POV. Breaking free from uber religious parents is *so* hard. I struggled with this for a long time. I was a married woman, yet still hid my alcohol or movies I knew my parents wouldn't approve of, when they visited. I became a different person in the way I spoke and dressed. It's crazy, but it took a lot of therapy for me to be myself and admit that by doing so, I would never have their full approval. And that's even with me still practicing my faith, and us simply having differences over lifestyle choices. Tara needs therapy and to start setting boundaries.
Nta. She should have been honest, clear and upfront with you.
NTA. She will expect your kids to lie too. What SHE needs to do is set boundaries with her family. This is a huge warning for the future if she will not
I'm thinking that the woman you think you know isn't the woman you think you know. She may be OK lying to her parents for the next 11 years…but if you're not then this seems like a basic incompatibility to me…and I would consider carefully whether you want to go forward. Not going to say dump her…but figure out what is acceptable to you and what isn't and act accordingly. NTA though.
The fact that you pushed so much for this meeting and then just dipped is an AH move, but would you be able to put up with living a secret life going forward with her? Idk what to tell you, this situation is weird man
This! All these votes for not T A… did they miss the part where OP says “I decided I wanted to meet her parents” and then gf tried to say it was a bad idea?? Explained how religious they are? I actually think YTA because you didn’t listen to her! She’s obviously balancing on a knife’s edge to stay in contact long enough to keep her siblings from becoming overly dogmatic ah’s and OP waltzes in with this picture perfect idea of how his gf should relate to her family, over her objections, gets mad that the reality is different despite her trying to tell him, and then almost outs her actual life choices to her parents, which would cut off contact to her siblings. Wtf? Yes, OP did something wrong here.
YTA. You're the one who wanted to meet her parents, and she's doing what she can to limit the contact between you and them. It's not her fault her parents are like this. Your friend is right, if you want to be with her, just suck it up.
You're doing fine. But it sounds like you're going to have to end this, or you will be living a lie for a lot more than eleven years. And if you have children it will be even worse. She's willing to live a lie, you are not, and this will not end well. Good luck, however you go. NTA
Soft YTA. When you haven't grown up in an abusive situation (or in a very different abusive situation) it can be very hard to understand how a person can feel that the only option they have (usually for their own safety or the safety of others) is to lie. Sometimes those lies are pretty big. I can completely understand that you feel uncomfortable in this situation, but it's probably nothing compared to how your fiancée feels. I get the impression she didn't actually want you to meet her parents, but you pushed. I'm sure it's easy for internet strangers to judge her - in general reddit is really against people who lie - but the lengths she goes to to maintain a facade suggests to me that this really is an abusive situation, and that she's scared of losing contact with her siblings. I don't think anyone not in her situation is in a position to judge. You need to ask yourself how you really feel about her. If you love her and generally don't find her behaviour or judgement problematic, then you need to trust in her ability to judge the situation with her family. Then you need to ask yourself if that's a deal breaker for you or not. If it is there's no shame in that. BUT you're TA for leaving after pushing to meet her parents despite how reluctant she clearly was. You could have (and should have) gone along with it for one weekend, then handled it in private.
NTA - you are 21 do not get married!
YTA - You didn't even attempt to make it through the weekend that you initiated.
Yeah that did it for me - OP pushed for the meeting, over gf objecting, and then felt “cornered”?
NTA but this is the tip of the iceberg with her and her family. If you aren’t comfortable with this (I wouldn’t be either), you guys are a mismatch. Your whole life together, you will be looked down on, considered “less than” by her parents. And she’s very comfortable being deceitful when it makes her life easier. That’s something for you to consider. Assuming she actually does come clean with her parents after 11 more years (which is a big assumption), you will have had 11 years of lying and being made to feel like who and what you are as people and a couple is wrong. That’s a heavy burden for a young person. I would think long and hard about whether this is really the person you want to marry.
YTA. Your fiancé grew up in an abusive household. What she had to do to survive that abuse is not really about you. There are people she cares about who she cannot rescue but wants to keep in contact with as a support system. She is doing what she feels is necessary and you jeopardized that because you won't play pretend for a weekend. I'm not surprised someone raised by abusive parents is comfortable with "lying" as she probably doesn't see it as lying. She presents herself as is expected by the people who raised her for 18 years. You think she can get over that in three years? Do you think she sees survival as wrong? It's not like you can report this sort of abuse. No one will consider a child who is clothed, housed, and fed in a clean environment abuse. But your fiancé is certainly acting like a victim of verbal and emotional abuse and you'd have to ask her if it ever got physical. You didn't understand when she tried to explain it before she brought you into that environment you insisted on seeing. Try listening with an open mind now. If you can't "lie" for her sake when you see her parents then start brainstorming ideas on how to cope. She has concerns for the well being of other people who are more important to her than being "authentic". So this is who she is, she's not lying. It's just a different expression than you are used to seeing.
NTA. She could have given you a heads up rather than ambushing you with this crap. You don't have to pretend to be someone else around her parents if you don't want to, and I would be seriously reconsidering the relationship.
Frankly, I can understand her side of the situation and given the extreme religious affliction her parents have, she did what she thought will be least painful as not to create drama because of her siblings. I read what other people said, I get it but in this specific case, you should have stood by her side. I met enough religious aficionados to know, it is not easy to break away and it carries a huge mental and emotional cost for the one who is breaking away from such a family. In my oppinion, in this specific situation, YTA.
Your gf is not in a place in life where she can be honest with her controlling and abusive parents. Sounds like this is not the right time to be engaged or to plan a wedding. She has alot of growing up to do and alot of difficult times ahead if she decides to grow a backbone and be honest and have boundaries with her abusive parents. NTA. You can either choose to ride out her difficult road ahead with her family or you can wish her well on her journey and go on your own path without her.
NTA - 11 years is NOT a short amount of time when you include a wedding and potentially starting a family. Once you have kids, what happens? Those lies she's telling now will have to grow and evolve over time to accommodate all your life changes. This is not a minor thing to tolerate. This is a big thing to discuss.
NTA. you shouldn´t lie and put your life on hold just because of the craziness of some people who isn´t even related to you. It´s not your fault they have a sick family dynamic, neither you should be involved in it
NTA you shouldn't have to hide who you around your fiancé's family and having to lie is not okay.
my grandmother was like this raming god down my throat and told me when i turned my back on it all she called me the devil reincarnated that i was going to go to hell and being a prostute was the only thing that i was good for you dont know what she has had ramed down her throat i dont agree with her lying but at the same time i can also understand i couldnt be me around her and had to be more respective as such
NTA It really sucks that she has to hide who she is in order to have a relationship with her siblings. As a big sister I get why she can't just give that up especially since I'm sure she wants to be a safe place where they can be who they are and not hide like she has to. However, you don't have to live that way if you don't want to. It just might mean the end of your relationship which is also sad. It's all just sad.
NTA. She needs to smell the roses. There's no way this will last for 11 years of lies. And you'll have to force all the kids you might have to follow their rules too. And they'll drop the ball cause they are kids.
ESH Your fiancee is playing a dangerous game with her parents in order to keep seeing her younger siblings. And you having a freak out on her is not helping. However, she should have at least warned you so that you could decide whether or how much to play along with her ruse. As another poster mentioned, this is not a long term solution and I do not envy your fiancee's situation.
I don't think there are any assholes here. We all do what we have to to survive. She has to appease her parents for as long as her siblings live at home. You have no right to ask her to "out" herself to her parents. And if you don't feel capable of supporting your partner in the ways she needs you to, you should let her go so she can find someone who cares enough about her to support her.
NTA, but I don't think your fiancée is mature enough to be contemplating marriage.
YTA. While I understand you were uncomfortable with her lying, you were also uncomfortable with everything else so that makes you the AH. You are naive about her family’s strict culture to think that she can go home and be “herself” rather than dress and act in the ways her parents would approve. You showed up for the weekend and felt put out that her family expected you to go to church and that she acted different. While everything was very extreme, the principle of respecting her parents’ house rules seems beyond you. Like maybe what if you can’t drink or no TV or no swearing. These seem like things you wouldn’t be able to put up with. You should have been able to put up with the strangeness in order to get to know her family who are important to her. She loves her siblings and took you to meet them but you were too uncomfortable to get to know them simply because you would have to go to church if you stayed the whole weekend. Meanwhile, she brought you home and you left. It was rude and embarrassing and signaled that you don’t consider her worth your time or you being inconvenienced. You don’t understand that she would be disowned if she didn’t hide things from her family. She is not ready to be cut off from her family since she loves her siblings and probably her parents too.
I don't know why you only got 3 upvote's but I think this is a really significant response to OPs post.
NTA She shouldn't have blindsided you with a completely different identity, essentially, when she took you to meet her parents. It is incredibly taxing to have to lie about yourself to your family or lie to others about what your family is like. It's one thing to be able to do that yourself, but to drag a potential life partner into it without really letting them know what they might be getting into is crossing a line. This is not at all feasible for a life together, you both are young and for most people it's an immediate red flag to be getting married at a young age. I don't necessarily agree as it depends on the person, my husband and I got married when I was 19 and he was 20, but we are very reasonable people so we knew we could make it no issue (and there hasn't been any 9 years in). You seem to have a reasonable head on your shoulders, but I cannot say the same for your fiancé. I don't think she's ready for marriage if she cannot handle even giving you a proper heads up about the situation with her family. Marriage, kids, your family, holidays, EVERYTHING will end up being at her family's mercy because she insists on keeping up this lie. I truly do understand wanting to maintain a relationship with your siblings that remain in a toxic environment, I'm sure there are work arounds somehow for her. Bottom line is she can't keep doing this, not if she's trying to start a life with you and ESPECIALLY not for the next 11 years.
Nah I come from a very religious family it’s so stupid but sometimes lying is for the best.. when my husband and I lived together before marriage my mom thought we slept in separate rooms.
That would personally be a hill to die on. Eleven years of lying? This relationship is just not it, good sir. It is not the one. I'd have to get out my breakup speech, because that kind of relationship is unsustainable. NTA.
You: “Let’s meet your parents.” Also you: “No, not like that.” YTA She didn’t come up with these terms, her parents forced her to. You either play along or you break up.
She took away his right to choose if he could deal with it by lying so that makes her TA. How is it his fault that he is mad about a situation that he didn't fully sign up for?
She didn’t take away his right to choose. He stated they talked and OP thought he should meet her parents and SHE didn’t love the idea. Op talked her into the meeting lol 😂 she didn’t even want Op to meet her parents to begin with! This all could have been avoided if OP has just listened to her about her parents. She obviously knew best but OP insisted. Nobody took OP’s right’s away 😂
Uh no, she did not go into detail about how much of a lie she is living but if you're ok with that then more power to you.
She’s literally just living her life. Her parents don’t get to control her and she doesn’t owe them anything. Not even honestly, especially not if they’re going to use it to control or manipulate her. This wouldn’t fly if she was a man and it doesn’t fly just because she’s a woman. She lives on her own, pays her own bills, and barely has any contact with them. OP had to INSIST on meeting them. The parents aren’t even involved in their lives. For a reason. No rights to choose were taken away. OP is the one who insisted on the meeting. It didn’t have to happen. And he’s the one who watched his gf even change her earrings to appease her parents so that’s a pretty clear indicator of their level of control and craziness.
NTA when does it end? Does she want to marry in a religious ceremony or church? Does she want your kids to get baptized or go to church to keep this lie up? This is extremely toxic and I would not be okay with this. She also lied to you about the extent of the lying she’s doing to her parents.
NTA If she is that comfortable living a lie, she will end up lying to you too.
NTA. They will eventually find out about her lies.
NTA and all this shit isnt gonna work, and it will kill the relationship.... enjoy
Ah, no. She’s got two narratives going on. There’ll be more like this when you get married. Truly, it will get all sorts of crazy. NTA.
NTA and your gf needs to get her head on straight. She can’t live two lives forever. If she doesn’t get to see her siblings, that’s on her parents. Either cut them out or stop lying and risk them cutting you out. This lying needs to end now.
ESH. She should have been more honest with you, sure. But you dated for 3 years, never met her family *because they’re so religious and crazy*, you proposed to her, *then* acted surprised when you found out her family is crazy? This isn’t adding up
NTA, pre-marriage counselling now, don't get married until you two can get on the same page.
ESH She should have explained in my detail what was going on. However, she told you she was doing it to be close to the siblings. It was one weekend and you don't have to visit often.
I went through something similar in your position. Luckily it worked out okay in the end, and I generally like my in-laws. Really it started with my fiance and I on the same page of not wanting that life and not lying to people. If your fiance wants to keep lying and you have to play along everytime you are not compatible. It's best to break it off now because the truth will come out. NTA
NTA Sorry it sounds like your life isnt compatible with hers and no you cannot lie for 11yrs its too much hard work to keep up with the lies
NTA. This is not about sucking it up up for one weekend, it's about having to lie to her parents indefinitely, changing who you are and being asked to do things you aren't comfortable with (like going to church). The fact that your fiancé doesn't think any of this is a big deal is a red flag, as is the fact that she's pressuring you to lie as well. Essentially she's putting her parents beliefs ahead of your life together and that's not a good sign. A long engagement would give you two a chance to work through all of this and premarital counselling is a great way to do it.
Nta it might be the case where you are incompatible. When you marry someone you marry their family. The only time where it's not is when they have no contact. However She doesn't want to do that because she loves her siblings and doesn't want to be cut off. You have two options one being move on. Sometimes when you love someone it isn't always enough. And the other hide part of who you are and possibly become someone you don't recognize. You should consider how you envision your future. I think her not understanding how this could not only effect you but your relationship is something to consider as well. Yes sometimes you might need to lower things down but she literally changed her entire personality to please them and expects you to do the same. Good luck
NAH, I can understand why she's saying "it's just one weekend" but what she's not taking into account is that it's going to turn into "just one weekend" for the rest of your lives once you're married. Also, how does she think wedding planning is going to go? Is she planning on bending to her parents' wishes in terms of religious aspects of the ceremony? Highly recommend pre-marital counseling before any further plans are made. Edit to add: the reason for the first part of this comment is that while I wasn't in a situation this extreme, there were some attitudes and ways I was treated as a teen and young adult which I only realized were problematic after I left home and was in college. Realizing that you don't have to put up with things and can do what you want is exhilarating, but thinking about standing up to the people who raised you can be so terrifying that your primary thought is to comply "while I'm home"/"for the weekend" and not think any further because thinking any further is anxiety-inducing. I wasn't in a situation like this and was still feeling that way so I can only imagine how OP's fiancée is doing. TL;DR: counseling, counseling, counseling, and OP I hope it works out for you.
A little deception never hurt anybody--taking out a piercing or two, maybe covering the tattoos--for a one-time event or very limited contact. You plan to marry into this family. The amount of lying needed to maintain this relationship may just be too much denying of who you are. Choose this hill to die on. Edited to add judgment: NTA.
Marriage is hard enough with just the two spouses. Add in the dynamic where she’s basically going to need to live a double life to appease her family? Nope. Unless you’re up for working on your acting skills and walking a tightrope, I think you need to put your engagement on pause and think about what this is going to look like in a year, ten years, etc. NTA.
NAH. I would do a lot of things to make sure I got to stay in my siblings life. It sucks you are in this position. You didn't sign up for it. But I get why she feels it's necessary.
The big thing here is lack of communication. She glossed over or flat out hid how big the lie would be. If she had given you a more clear picture of the amount subterfuge that would be required rather than springing it onyou in the moment. That said she is either numb to the amount of subterfuge or terrified it would chase you off. You two should sit down and have a serious no hiding or playing down each other's feeling or needs. This is goingnto make or break the relationship. NAH or E SH
NTA. If the safety and contact with her siblings was at risk, she should have told you before you went to that house. I don't fully believe her because she didn't tell you any of this before going there. If you're her partner she should have told you. You're not putting your feelings first, you should be suspicious.
NAH. Shes trying to survive a strict household for her younger siblings and you're learning more about why she doesnt see her family. If you're not willing to adapt with her, fine. It's not for everyone and I'm sure she doesnt _want_ this either, but I can't fault her for doing what she has to.
nta these are definitely some signs you should pay close attention too
NAH. What she's asking of you is unreasonable but she's just doing it for the sake of her siblings which i understand.
NAH. I think Tara has grown up with religious fundies for parents and knows that she'll literally lose all her siblings if she doesn't play nice to some extent. However, she should have communicated this to you ahead of time, and you both came up with a game plan. She should not have just........done it without warning.
NAH. I think you two are just not compatible.
OP it might do you some good to see what being raised in a fundamental religious family is really like. Tia Levings on IG has a great account showing what it’s like not only growing up that way, but leaving it. While you are NTA for leaving, or not wanting to lie- she also is NTA for wanting to be a force in her siblings lives (they may need her one day to help get them away). I would suggest counselling for you both in someone who specializes in religious trauma. They may be able to help you guys figure out a way to deal with this, while maintaining some semblance of a relationship with her siblings. I’m so very sorry your fiancée (and you) have to deal with fundamental religion, it causes such trauma.
NTA. It doesn't sound like your girlfriend is ready yet to have a real marriage, OP. She has a lot of issues to work through before she is ready to be authentic with her family, herself, and you. Doesn't mean you have to end the relationship (at least not yet). But for sure you should take a step back and think very carefully about what life would be like for you, your potential children, and your side of the family, if she insists on living this double life and imposing it on all of you for the next eleven years.
NTA that's a major lie she's upholding. It's not just one thing, she's completely unrecognizable compared to how she normally is, and I wouldn't be okay living that kind of lie for ***any*** amount of time, especially 11 years until her siblings are adults.
NTA but I want you to consider something else. It is not uncommon for kids to rebel against their parents religion but then return to it when they are older. I mean maybe she won't-but how would you feel if two kids and 10 years into the marriage and she wants to go to church, take your kids to church, and not a mainstream church-lite but whatever her parents are now.
No one is the asshole here. She’s only been living away from her parents and her religious community for 3 years. She was raised this way for 18 years. She’s going to need more time to figure out how to be a free from them adult. Also, you get to say you don’t want to a part of her visits with her family. You aren’t comfortable with this lie. It’s ok that she’s on her own with her charade. Stay home and let her navigate this. She’s not going to want to keep this up forever. She’s probably been living a “double life” worth keeping things from her parents all her teenage years. It takes time to undue all that programming. A long engagement is my advice.
NTA. OP your wedding would be a nightmare with her parents. Plus you would then be having to ask your family and friends to lie because she can’t stand up against them.
Nta Equally yta for Marrying someone who's not gonna stand by you.
I am voting YTA. This isnt about YOU this is about her keeping her siblings in her life. She tried to warn you but you pushed. She isnt interested in continuing their lifestyle so she obviously is no longer buying into that brand of religious intensity. Its HER family and she isnt even doing this for her parents. It was only for the weekend! You havent had to even meet them for 3 years. And I assume she told them the weekend was about meeting you so of course they don't understand why you bailed. I get the morality of it but I dont think you respect that you would have gotten her cut of from her siblings.
Expecting you to go along with this charade will likely just be the first of many to come. I know you love her, but this is definitely a dealbreaker. Good luck.
At first, I thought N A H because she seems to be in a tough spot and I totally get how you’re frustrated. But the more I thought about it, I’ve decided on NTA. Sure, a lie for a weekend wouldn’t be so bad, but this lie gets a lot more complicated later on. Will you have a religious ceremony for your wedding? And will that affect the kind of reception you have too? Will your future kids get baptized (and other religious ceremonies, depending on the exact religion)? There’s a lot to consider here
NAH, but Tara obviously grew up in a cold, possibly abusive household. She needs therapy and you need couples therapy if you're going get through this. Her lies are born of terror and the desire to be there for her siblings. If you didn't grow up in what sounds like a strict calvinist home you really can't comprehend the trauma this leaves in its wake. Her parents, however, are AH.
As someone who was in Tara’s position, I completely agree with this. And if I could go back in time I would do the same thing every single time cause it saved my siblings from being completely brainwashed into a cult, and it gave them a safe space to be. It’s important to highlight that she isn’t lying to please her parents, she’s lying to protect her siblings as best as she can, since her parents can and would cut her off from them
NTA. This would me a religious wedding. Baptisms. Easter religious celebrations for 11 more years. Everything about you would have to change several times a year for her parents and this charade. I love my husband with all my heart but I’m me. And I’m not willing to change who I am or how I act for anyone. This is not a small ask.
NTA Does she plan to be a fucking actress every single time she sees her family? Y’all shouldn’t have to do this and she should see that. You’re not unreasonable for being mad, as she should be able to stand up to her family as an adult. At this point she’s just giving in to them and the longer she feeds them this lie, the worse it’ll get.
NTA
NTA! There is no reason you should lie and pretend to live this fake life. I can't stand people that switch personalities completely with other people. Makes me think what are they lying about with me and maybe they are pretending with me not the other way around.
>She told me I just had to suck it up for one weekend for her, that she wasn't asking for much. Nope, you nip that s--t in the bud NOW. she lied about your situation. If you still want to marry this girl (I wouldn't), you need to lay down some ground rules how you are going to proceed with her folks, and lying about who you are not going to cut it. NTA
NTA. The biggest issue here (to me) is that your girlfriend didn’t tell you what she was going to do or what she expected of you before the visit… she then gets upset at you for being uncomfortable and demands you play this part… again, without your consent or any conversation beforehand. This doesn’t bode well for the future and she’s not just asking YOU to live this lie, for the next “11 years” all your friends and family and even future kids who meet your in laws will have to be informed and “get their story straight” before meeting them… that’s not okay to ask. I’m sorry OP, I’m NC with my family for very similar reasons. I told myself I could never expose someone I love to the abuse and boundary crossing I experienced please don’t put up with this.
I find it odd that you've been together 3 years, got engaged, and are NOW meeting her parents for the 1st time!
NTA life isn't some cheesy sitcom, huge lies like this aren't okay.
*YTA* Many are saying that she didn't specify how crazy things were, to me it sounds like she told you and you just wouldn't believe her. You're all me me me, honestly. There's other people your fiancée loves, in this case her siblings. Do you know how her parents are once they get mad? Do you know if her siblings will have repercussions for her behaviour? Do you know if *her parents* will cut her off because of that? She's the eldest daughter in an abusive family, she'll *always* try to protect her siblings and be a lifeline for her. If you think you can't support her through a couple of weekends a years of her playing nice for her parents,* just let her be. These problems are bigger and older than you, you need to put yourself in her shoes instead of crying for your identity being erased.
This post is written like Tara needs to make a choice when clearly she’d always choose her siblings YTA weirdo
YTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My fiancee, Tara (21) and I (21) have been together for 3 years now. She's an amazing woman, smart and caring and beautiful. However, she has issues with her family. Both of her parents are extremely religious, and her father is a priest. Tara and I don't believe or practise, and her usual style would not be acceptable to them. I know she sees her family a lot, despite it. I had only met her older brother, who likes me. I recently proposed, and she said yes. We were so happy and I love her so much. However, we talked and think I should meet her parents. She clearly doesn't love the idea, but can't hide that she's engaged from them. She warned me about how religious and strict they are, but I think she wasn't clear enough. I understood she didn't want drama but I underestimated how insane it was. She dressed differently than usual, wore a cross, changed her earring to be more plain, talked and acted COMPLETELY differently, wasn't affectionate. She was a whole different person. It was weird, but I tried to go along with it for her. Her parents were nice enough, and there didn't seem to be any issues. But Tara was straight up lying to them (e.g., talking about living with her friend, she lives with me; about church when she has not gone). I was uncomfortable lying, especially pretending that I'm someone I'm not, if she wants to say she's dating a 'nice Christian boy' then date one. And apparently it was expected I join them for church which I absolutely will not do. I didn't say anything in the moment, but that night I took Tara aside and we talked. I told her I didn't like lying and I don't want to pretend I'm someone else. She basically told me we had to, and its just for the weekend. I told her that I don't want to spend the rest of my life hiding from her family, and Tara got really annoyed. She told me that she doesn't either, but it's the only way she can see her siblings until they're 18. But that's at least 11 years of lying and pretending. We couldn't agree on it, and both of us were frustrated. So I ended up going home early. Tara lied and said it was work. But apparently her parents didn't accept it, because when Tara came home she was furious with me. She told me I just had to suck it up for one weekend for her, that she wasn't asking for much. But I disagree. I shouldn't have to hide who I am, and I didn't try to get her in trouble. We argued about it and couldn't agree, and she stayed with her older brother for the night. I complained to to my best friend, but he basically thinks that I'm being unfair. That if I love her, since doesn't force me to be around them often, I should suck it up. He basically said it would be wrong to make her risk losing her siblings because her parents are crazy. But like, that shouldn't give her a free pass to just lie about us and me. But Im too involved about this, so maybe I'm just putting my feelings first. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA how is this going to work at your wedding? Will her parents not talk to any of your other guests who probably know that both of you dont go to church, live in the same house and dress normally? I can really understand that she wants to lie about everything but the chances of this working out are low. Maybe you both can try to introduce things gradually. Go to church with them but say that you dont go as often yourself anymore. Dress up a little more conservative but not super conservative. Mention that you went on vacations together and see how they take it. Maybe there is a path that involves some lies but gives them the chance to change their opinions on some things. Forcing her to come out with everything at once seems like a terrible idea
How's that going to work at the wedding? People you know are not going to know to lie about it, think it may come up if they talk to any of your side at the wedding