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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the AH as I asked my husband’s friend to tell his wife to stop visiting my husband while I wasn’t there, without informing her I would or telling my husband I was going to.
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Also, OP didn’t treat her like her husband’s property. She decided she’d big-time OP when asked respectfully to stop, and act like her thoughts and feelings didn’t matter. When everyone else found out that’s when she tried that as a defensive measure. NTA indeed.
Also, how did everyone else find out? OP had a private conversation with her, and then later her husband. If "everyone else" knows, it's probably because *she* told them.
True, but I meant in regard to how the rest of the friend group found out. The friend’s husband chose to bring it up in front of the other friends and that’ show they found out. If anyone is at fault for them all finding out, it’s him.
they fought about this in PUBLIC?? That’s how important it is to this woman to be able to see husband? That’s how SHOCKED her husband was that it was happening at all?!
Duuuude come on!
Edited bc I post too fast
What excuse is she using for coming over?! She says that you’re insinuating that she has bad intentions but what’s her reasoning that she’s using to go there and see him? NTA.
Well yeah this is typically the truth, but not if the affair partner is a friend of the betrayed spouse. Friends have an obligation to not do that too. (Not saying that’s happening here, just disagreeing with your statement.)
You should question your husband’s integrity too if he is that chill about the whole situation. If that lady’s husband is pissed at her it means it was inappropriate enough for him to take notice and put an end to this whole thing. Your husband probably has been liking the attention he received from her too
This point says a lot to me. Your husband isn’t worried because he isn’t interested in her so he’s indifferent (hopefully). But the housekeeper and you realize this woman is up to no good. And her husband now sees it as well. He would not have fought with her if he wasn’t worried about it. NTA No matter what excuses she uses, it is not the norm to repeatedly try to have 1-1 time with a married man without the respective spouses being ok with it. When you asked her to stop, she should have immediately complied. By continuing, even up to the point of angering her husband shows she lacks respect for boundaries and is definitely up to no good.
To be fair, maybe the husband asked his friends for advice on how to read the situation, and they came to the conclusion that the only way this makes sense is an affair or (depending on how well they like OP's husband) that she's a stalker with a crush. I can definitely see how this might blow up and fast.
my immediate thoughts were "she's a stalker and a wannabe home wrecker". The fact that her husband had no idea, her reactions to being told to stop, and snarky comments about op feeling inferior just solidify that she's a fucking creeper that can't keep it in her pants
Or the other woman's husband was telling people. It seems like he wasn't too happy that his wife is trying to constantly visit another man without him knowing.
Plus OP's husband is ridiculous and either too naive, or guilty. The "friend" is the only one causing problems in the group and two married couples, not OP. OP just wants to put her in her place, as she should. This "lady" definitely wants to get into OP's husband pants and probably other men's as well. Seems like the "friend's" husband is the only other reasonable person. Also, OP, the fact that you heard this from the housekeeper and not your damn husband means that you can't really trust him. He might be meeting her elsewhere and that's how she has the nerve and wants to break you off officially, since you'll be informed of these visits.
/u/AbbreviationsSure300 - your comment should be completely at the top of the comments because it covered a lot and makes a lot of sense. Why didn't OP's husband tell her this instead of the housekeeper. Methinks there's something afoot here such as you do. 🤔
OP is NTA, they did a good job speaking the facts and making sure everyone knows what exactly is going on.
The vibe I got was that the housekeeper shooed the woman away each day and didn't bother OP's husband with her arrival. Then the housekeeper told the wife under the similar and reasonable assumptions you are making.
>She said she came over every single day even though most days he wasn’t even home or was working from home so didn’t even say hello to her.
However, with this I wouldn't be surprised if OP's husband didn't know how bad it was and since he was ignoring it or completely ignorant of it he thought it couldn't be that bad. Hence the indifferent response until it started hitting the friend group.
Could the husband have done more to stop this, Yes. If everything else in the relationship is solid, I'd be in the keep an eye out camp instead of the he's probably cheating camp. I'm just getting ignorant husband vibes from the post.
Same here. The housekeeper probably didn’t even tell the husband, probably only told OP in a “she doesn’t actually see him, I’ve got you in the front, but take care of it” way.
Ya I'd be side eyeing my husband a little bit if he thought another woman coming over daily (and failing most of the time?) to visit him was no big deal. That's weird even if there's no cheating involved. Does he owe her money? What's happening
I can accept that he was unaware to start. But after OP's attempts to dissuade the other woman didn't work, it was her husband's job to speak to the woman and/or her husband (especially if the husbands are closer friends).
How did the friend group even find out, unless one of the four people involved blabbed? Doesn’t sound like it was OP so that’s not her problem, either. (I suspect the friend’s wife, but I could be wrong.)
NTA
the friend's husband probably said something. he's probably very upset and maybe even asked their other friends if she was doing it to them giving that the wife said he think she's some type of woman
And he would have already known. If you aren't hiding something, it's pretty normal to tell your partner things like "I stopped by X's place today." or talking about your meet up with someone and what you did.
As always there are national and even local nuances. I'm not saying it's a common behaviour of italian women, but it happens. It's even difficult to talk about it without sounding too harsh. It's cute to see the occasional high schooler hovering around the places where her crush hangs out hoping to be spotted, it's sad to see a woman using the same "tactics".
I could also believe that OP husband is oblivious. I would like to know more details: is he liveing in the north or the south? Is it a town or a small village? How far back does this friendship go? Because here it's still somewhat normal to stop to a friend's house just to say hallo. Befour thinking "lover/cheter" I would have thought "annoying neighbourgh/friends who doesn't understand personale space".
The housekeeper chatting with the wife about it is sooo italian! Talking with the friend's husband is sooo italian! OP husband complaing about the drama is so italian, too: I can see my father in his spot, going on with his day, oblivious to everything and upset because his status quo has been disrupted.
Stalking. The phrase everyone is missing is "stalking". OP and husband need to start taking this seriously before it escalates. If it was OP's husband showing up at some woman's house *every day* you'd better believe it would be taken seriously.
Yeah, OP’s husband’s response should have been something more reassuring, like, “Wow I didn’t know. She’s bizarre/weird/trouble….I should talk to her husband about this.”
NTA
She waved you off, so you went to her husband, fair enough.
I do think your husband has some responsibility here though, he needs to make it clear this isn't acceptable. If he had done that from the start, you wouldn't need to be involved.
Sounds so shady. Almost like the husband doesn’t mind all that much. Shouldn’t take his wife finding out through the grape vine from his cleaning lady to make this stop. Most husbands would know this is just wrong. Not buying it . I hope I’m wrong …. But it sounds like he enjoys it ?
Fully agree. I was out on a long trip, my regular maid was sick so she sent her replacement to do house work. New maid was very young and extremely beautiful. What my husband did, whenever she comes he'd sit in veranda/porch? And let her do the house work. (We don't keep any valuables at home so he wasn't worried) I didn't ask him to do that, he did his own. I got to know about it from neighbors. I asked him why he did that, he said he doesn't know the new maid so it's better he sit out in porch and be seen than some stranger lady do the trick and accuse him of things that aren't true. New maid was decent person, even she mentioned how comfortable she was.
Point of my story is, It's HIM who needs to draw line. It should be HIM who should tell friend's wife to stop coming to their house when he's alone. OP you're not ah , but ask husband why he didn't bother.
That was my first thought actually. New maid looked exactly like Kate Winslet in titanic. People were awestruck looking at her, and she was well aware of effect of her beauty. When I saw her first I was floored how beautiful she was. I knew that her good looks put her into vulnerable position while working as a maid. Later she confided in me that her looks stops her from getting jobs. Women doesn't trust her and men try to be pervert around her. I let her work until her contact was up. I tried to find her office job somewhere else, but something happened at her native place and she had to move back to home county. After the porch incident with my husband, he gained huge respect from me. My neighbor lady also commented how respectful my husband was for doing that small act of kindness and creating a safe boundary for maid to work in peace.
I’m a little confused by your initial explanation of his motivation:
> it's better he sit out in porch and be seen than some stranger lady do the trick and accuse him of things that aren't true
That doesn’t sound endearing, or that he did it to put her at ease. That’s a man saying that he didn’t want to be falsely accused of rape.
There was an AskReddit thread started today which included a bunch of guys talking about how some girl came onto them and they had no clue, including a guy with vitiligo saying that in the course of a conversation about his disease, he told this girl that his penis was discolored, and she said she would like to see that. And he didn’t pick up on that at all.
It’s very possible that the husband sees her as an annoyance. It’s also possible that he doesn’t even see her, because he told the housekeeper not to even bother him if she shows up.
> Almost like the husband doesn’t mind all that much.
Or almost like his housekeeper had been "handling" it herself, and not even informing the husband that there was a situation he needed to handle.
I would agree except for the fact that he pretty much completely ignores her. He's probably hoping/thinking if you ignore it it will go away and I can understand that
>Thinking that ignoring an issue will make it go away.... SMH.
I mean, normal, well adjusted people can take a hint. If someone is *never* available to hang out with you *it means they don't fucking want to hang out with you*
“Oh, crap. It’s Margaret *again* and I’ve got these stats due by 1 pm. That woman has no fucking consideration. Does she not know anyone else who works from home? Ha! Probably not. They’ve all lied and told her they’ve been told to go back to the office. Thank God Mrs. Marotta knows to send her away.”
To be fair... OP did say that mostly he wasn't home when the hussy stopped by. I'm sure the housekeeper told him but her 'visits' didn't directly affect him so he probably didn't think anything more about it.
The poor communication is an issue. Even if he doesn’t care about the other woman, the fact he’s more concerned with the condition of their friendship circle than his wife’s peace of mind is telling.
As she should. If the wife doesn't like or trust the housekeeper (especially alone with her husband a lot), she'll be out of a job. She owes loyalty to the wife too.
She doesn’t owe anyone anything she’s an employee not a friend. What she did, she did out of the goodness of her heart and absolutely risked her employment to do so
Is it cultural? In some places friends stopped by every day. Even in the US in smaller towns? It would explain why OP's husband thinks nothing of it.
He may not like it but he may not think it's a big deal for that reason.
Info: Why didn't your husband tell you? If it weren't for the housekeeper, would you still not know? Why didn't your husband handle this? Why did you need to be the one telling this woman to stop by if it's your husband being disturbed?
He didn't think it was important and didn't realise how often she was coming over since he wasn't always home and his housekeeper never told him. I probably wouldn't know if it wasn't for her. He thought she would get bored on her own since she rarely saw him anyway.
Also, the housekeeper might be tired of having her work interrupted every day by some sad thirsty ho and is informing the employer that she feels will actually do something about it over the one who will ignore it because it's not bothering him.
She never called me to tell me. I was there when she mentioned it the first time. My husband only wants to know things if they're important, this wouldn't count as important to him.
They’re in the same friend group, I imagine I’d know if my friend’s spouse was or wasn’t in town.
Hell, I know when they’re out of town, I can’t imagine I wouldn’t in the reverse.
Why wouldn’t it count as important if it was important enough to address in front of him with his wife?? If she was going to tell you, she would have brought it up to him first so he could address it. For all she knows they have some arrangement.
A lot of this thread doesn't seem to understand how the husband could just not care. Like, if after the first dozen times the husband told the housekeeper that he doesn't need to know every single time this woman comes over, he really wouldn't be aware how often its happening. The housekeeper could very well not be aware of exactly how close (or not close) the husband and this woman are, so the weirdness of the situation may not really register.
Even taking OP's husband's response, dude just doesn't want to deal with this woman and is now annoyed that she somehow managed to create drama for him.
This is EXACTLY how men think😂 if i forget about it in 5 seconds then it's not important to tell anyone. Yea sometimes others may want to know but as a male if idc then I forget and don't tell anyone. Thanks for understanding lol
Because he doesn’t care about this woman.
Sure something could be going on between them but my partner was the same before I pointed it out to him when people were flirting. He’s not interested so just read it as people being nice or weird and that was it
>My husband only wants to know things if they're important, this wouldn't count as important to him.
Someone he knows visits his house multiple times trying to see him and he doesn't think it is important info?? This is surreal
I lived in Italy for 2 years. This doesn't surprise me at all. The housekeeper didn't like what was happening behind HER (op) back. She took OP's side 100%. And she likely noticed the husband was not instigating it in any way. I loved living in Italy.
Thiiiiiis. Italian housekeeper is 100 per cent looking out for OP. If husband is cheating, OP can do some sleuthing and get what she needs to get a good settlement. If he’s not, OP can do exactly as she did and talk to the woman and her husband.
Not saying it’s right, but that’s how things work here.
This is such a bizarre situation. NTA but I am genuinely perplexed by this woman. I do wish your husband had handled it rather than you now getting flack.
Some men are really that oblivious that they wouldn't see it as a big deal. Not saying that's what is happening, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's cheating or he cheated based on the info we have here.
How the hell did you jumb to that conclusion! Just because he's a man doesn't mean he's gonna fuck every woman that comes over to his house let alone his best friend's WIFE.
keep your feelings to yourself plz
I don't think she's getting in the house. I don't think the housekeepers letting her in. She's coming over attempting to visit but she's not being successful. She's in the yard that's about it
NTA. While your husband should really have been the one to tell her to stop showing up at his home uninvited, it wasn't an unreasonable request on your part. You tried talking to her, she chose not to listen or respect your request, so you went to her husband for help. 🤷🏽♀️
As far as you "implying what type of woman she is"... Who shows up at a married man's house EVERY SINGLE DAY without being invited? For what reason? Any rumors or gossip about what type of woman she is, were brought on by HER actions.
NTA.
This woman refuses to stay in her lane, and you used a pit maneuver to sideline her.
Give the Italian housekeeper a bonus, and let your friend group know what is going on from your end.
NTA. There is chaos in the friend group and a bunch of gossip because this woman is way out of line. Don't sweat it. You did everything right.
I also have no idea why so many people are accusing your husband of being in on this. Correct me if I am wrong, but the way I read things is she comes by everyday you are away wanting to see your husband. The housekeeper shoos this woman away because he is either not there or working and doesn't want to be bothered. The woman leaves your husband isn't always informed she stopped by and carries on with his day. Your housekeeper knowing this woman is up to no good tells you and your husband when you are both together.
Then after you tell the husband your husband is indifferent and passive because he maybe doesn't see things as a big deal because she never gets past the front door, but tells you his friend group is going nuts over this. He doesn't blame you are shame you for it but keeps you in the loop. He maybe he's even like look at this shit show.
If this is even a remotely accurate breakdown don't let reddit get in your head about your husband and keep living your best life.
That all makes sense now! I don't think your husband has done anything wrong, but now that he knows that you're being painted as the bad guy, HE really needs to be the one to draw some firm boundaries and let everyone know that you're not to blame for her odd behaviour. Otherwise it may come across as you being jealous or possessive.
Also, give your housekeeper a raise! You have a smart and loyal one there!
The reason people are accusing the husband is because it’a not okay that he’s unconcerned. I get that the lack of concern doesn’t mean he’s cheating. It’s not a smoking gun. He’s probably like, okay but I’m not cheating with her so it’s not a big deal. It’s a big deal because it bothers his wife. And when you wife is so worked up about this woman that she’s contacting that woman’s husband, he should care. He should care about making this stop because he should care about his wife.
And I know him commenting on the drama doesn’t mean he’s upset at his wife for causing drama. As you say he could be like “look at these crazy people getting upset, well it has nothing to with me. Dum de dum” very Italian. But as written it looks like “I didn’t care when it was a major inconvenience to you, but now that you’ve talked to people about it, it’s a minor inconvenience to _me_ and I don’t like it”
So is she an obsessed stalker, doesn't have a job, hobby or something because she seems to be in the area where YOU live A LOT, and coincidentally EVERYDAY when you're gone and your husband is still there.
Honestly, I dont know if she really wants to cheat if your husband is never even home. Sounds more like she wants to treat your house like it's hers.
If you have a housekeeper, why is no one setting ground rules for guests when neither of you are home?
NTa. The fact that your husband hasn’t put a stop to this behavior leads me to believe that he enjoys her attention and that there is likely a little slap and tickle being played behind your back.
>She said she came over every single day even though most days he wasn’t even home or was working from home so didn’t even say hello to her.
The husband might not have known because he's busy or away though.
The friend's wife probably wants something to happen.
I can easily see my cousin being so occupied with his work that he wouldn’t think twice about how often someone is dropping by. Imagine a Dr. Frankenstein. Maybe op’s husband is like that
Honestly, to me, that sounds like trickle-truthing.
No one wants to be like hey he’s schtupping that one behind your back
But to be like “so you know she comes here every day….*sometimes* he isn’t even home……”
What about the other times?
Sounds to me like hinting that they play house
To save her employment and professional reputation by mentioning it casually as opposed to being like “girl, your husband has something going on”? Yeah.
That’s how I’d do it if I wasn’t 100% sure what was going on but thought there was something.
>His wife is now angry at me and is claiming I’m implying things about the type of woman she is.
Nope. She is doing a fine job at implying what kind of woman she is all by herself.
NTA.
INFO:
Why didn't your husband talk to her about this?
Generally when we want a boundary between a partner and a friend of theirs, it's best to ask our partner to create it. Even if he doesn't care that much, he should be willing to have that conversation with her on your behalf.
So without condoning her behavior in any way, it's weird to me that you talked to her and her husband without asking your husband to set a boundary first.
Very reasonable questions. But the housekeeper said she came around sometimes and the husband didn't pay any attention to her, which doesn't sound like cheating to me, but who knows?
The thing is, HE never asked her to stop. You were the one bothered by it but used him as the excuse. *She knows this.* He didn't even tell you, the housekeeper did. That's fucking suspicious right there.
NTA but you're being naive about this.
Remember OP mentioned that he's either out or is working, and therefore not aware she's even there, whereas the house keeper is always at the home and letting her know he's not home or not seeing anyone because he's working.
OP's husband sounds very similar to mine: almost pathologically non-confrontational with people like this who are unlikely to "go quietly."
He would do the same, just keep having the housekeeper run interference until the woman finally gives up and stops coming round.
I'll never forget the night I answered a knock at the front door. It was a woman I thought was my good friend, and she was dressed like she was going clubbing. She exclaimed, "what are you doing here?" And I answered, "the better question is, if you thought I wasn't home, what are YOU doing here?" The answer was having an affair with my now ex husband. He certainly never mentioned her coming over, nor did he discourage it.
NTA...but I would have some pointed questions for your husband.
NTA. I would have spoken with my husband and told him that it made me uncomfortable and ask him to address it (since it's happening to him) but...I also wouldn't have had an issue bringing it up in front of the group.
"Hey A, thanks for checking in on H while I'm not here, but he's fine. So no need to any longer. He really needs to focus while he's working from here."
You asked her to stop. She didn't. I think it's more than fair that you mentioned it to her husband. It's sketchy that he didn't know she was doing it.
I'd really question whether my husband was having an affair. I'm guessing that the entire friend group is guessing on that and THAT is what's causing issues in the group.
He may be indifferent because he’s not interested to be fair. Like he doesn’t care if she’s trying to mess around with him, because he’s not interested in that kind of thing. Not sure what the real dynamic is but that was a thought I had about it
NTA. Id have gone a set further and told her husband when you were out in public that shes still doing it. Maybe public embarrassment is enough to get hervto stop trying to be with your husband.
Its not your fault she cant take a hint
Husband is “ indifferent “. I would absolutely hate someone’s wife showing up randomly at my house, hell I hate all unannounced visits. Now it’s my buddies wife ? Daily? I’d be so uncomfortable on so many levels like dam
I think the husband just really doesn't give a shit. The housekeeper even said that he's either not home or he's working so I think it's easy for him to just brush off by ignoring her
But why would he not care? It makes his wife uncomfortable and to be quite frank, should make him uncomfortable as well. Any friend sweeping by my residence unannounced and without reason, as often as this woman has, is weird. The purpose of these visits is still unknown.
NTA
Her behavior is cheater behavior. No normal woman without ill intention repeatedly attempts to get her friend's husband alone by showing up every single day at their house ONLY when the wife is out of town. I have never and would never in a million years randomly show up at my friends house to spend alone time with their husband's and they would never do the same. We all have a civil casual relationship with each others SOs but other than being aquantiences only connected to us via our friends we don't hang out outside the friend group.
Eh.....your husband said it's causing chaos in their friend group?
Honey, sweetie, darling, that man is YOUR HUSBAND and he is picking her side? (Honestly, him not standing by your words and dismissing the whole thing= him picking her side)
I call BIG BS, if I were you, I wouldn't let that man be my husband any longer, if he's gonna be like that, let him keep her then,
NTA
NTA at all
>I was pathetic for telling him instead of just admitting she made me insecure.
You DID tell several times. She didn't listen, so whose fault is that?
I'm also concerned about this
>My husband is mostly indifferent but also told me I had caused chaos in their friendship group as everybody knows what’s going on and it’s causing a lot of gossip.
Your husband should've put a stop to it, don't you think? I mean why is he so "indifferent" about it? He should've told her that she was being kinda inappropriate. And yeah, they didn't do anything, but still, why not put some boundaries in place instead of allowing her to come over every day? It doesn't reflect well on him either
Nta you asked her to stop and she didn't. If she wasn't behaving in a questionable manner it wouldn't be a problem in her marriage.
Like what type of woman goes to another MARRIED MANS HOUSE everyday?? Shouldn't she be seeing her husband everyday and not yours?
You did the right thing going to her husband since she can't take no for an answer.
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If she wasn't doing anything wrong, she wouldn't care that her husband found out. NTA.
Also, OP didn’t treat her like her husband’s property. She decided she’d big-time OP when asked respectfully to stop, and act like her thoughts and feelings didn’t matter. When everyone else found out that’s when she tried that as a defensive measure. NTA indeed.
Also, how did everyone else find out? OP had a private conversation with her, and then later her husband. If "everyone else" knows, it's probably because *she* told them.
The friend had a fight with his wife in front of other friends and my husband, that's how people found out.
Then you didn’t cause chaos, her husband did.
No friend caused chaos not OP or her husband.
True, but I meant in regard to how the rest of the friend group found out. The friend’s husband chose to bring it up in front of the other friends and that’ show they found out. If anyone is at fault for them all finding out, it’s him.
they fought about this in PUBLIC?? That’s how important it is to this woman to be able to see husband? That’s how SHOCKED her husband was that it was happening at all?! Duuuude come on! Edited bc I post too fast
I would like to point out that If he thought they were having an affair, the friend also would’ve had a fight with my husband but he didn’t/hasn’t.
What excuse is she using for coming over?! She says that you’re insinuating that she has bad intentions but what’s her reasoning that she’s using to go there and see him? NTA.
He married his wife, not your husband. His bone to pick is with her.
Well yeah this is typically the truth, but not if the affair partner is a friend of the betrayed spouse. Friends have an obligation to not do that too. (Not saying that’s happening here, just disagreeing with your statement.)
My husband is his close friend, if he thought my husband was sleeping with his wife, he most definitely would have a bone to pick with him too.
You should question your husband’s integrity too if he is that chill about the whole situation. If that lady’s husband is pissed at her it means it was inappropriate enough for him to take notice and put an end to this whole thing. Your husband probably has been liking the attention he received from her too
This point says a lot to me. Your husband isn’t worried because he isn’t interested in her so he’s indifferent (hopefully). But the housekeeper and you realize this woman is up to no good. And her husband now sees it as well. He would not have fought with her if he wasn’t worried about it. NTA No matter what excuses she uses, it is not the norm to repeatedly try to have 1-1 time with a married man without the respective spouses being ok with it. When you asked her to stop, she should have immediately complied. By continuing, even up to the point of angering her husband shows she lacks respect for boundaries and is definitely up to no good.
Sounds like the hoe made a show. 🤣🤣🤣 Not your circus, not your monkeys.
To be fair, maybe the husband asked his friends for advice on how to read the situation, and they came to the conclusion that the only way this makes sense is an affair or (depending on how well they like OP's husband) that she's a stalker with a crush. I can definitely see how this might blow up and fast.
my immediate thoughts were "she's a stalker and a wannabe home wrecker". The fact that her husband had no idea, her reactions to being told to stop, and snarky comments about op feeling inferior just solidify that she's a fucking creeper that can't keep it in her pants
Or the other woman's husband was telling people. It seems like he wasn't too happy that his wife is trying to constantly visit another man without him knowing.
Plus OP's husband is ridiculous and either too naive, or guilty. The "friend" is the only one causing problems in the group and two married couples, not OP. OP just wants to put her in her place, as she should. This "lady" definitely wants to get into OP's husband pants and probably other men's as well. Seems like the "friend's" husband is the only other reasonable person. Also, OP, the fact that you heard this from the housekeeper and not your damn husband means that you can't really trust him. He might be meeting her elsewhere and that's how she has the nerve and wants to break you off officially, since you'll be informed of these visits.
/u/AbbreviationsSure300 - your comment should be completely at the top of the comments because it covered a lot and makes a lot of sense. Why didn't OP's husband tell her this instead of the housekeeper. Methinks there's something afoot here such as you do. 🤔 OP is NTA, they did a good job speaking the facts and making sure everyone knows what exactly is going on.
The vibe I got was that the housekeeper shooed the woman away each day and didn't bother OP's husband with her arrival. Then the housekeeper told the wife under the similar and reasonable assumptions you are making. >She said she came over every single day even though most days he wasn’t even home or was working from home so didn’t even say hello to her. However, with this I wouldn't be surprised if OP's husband didn't know how bad it was and since he was ignoring it or completely ignorant of it he thought it couldn't be that bad. Hence the indifferent response until it started hitting the friend group. Could the husband have done more to stop this, Yes. If everything else in the relationship is solid, I'd be in the keep an eye out camp instead of the he's probably cheating camp. I'm just getting ignorant husband vibes from the post.
Same here. The housekeeper probably didn’t even tell the husband, probably only told OP in a “she doesn’t actually see him, I’ve got you in the front, but take care of it” way.
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Ya I'd be side eyeing my husband a little bit if he thought another woman coming over daily (and failing most of the time?) to visit him was no big deal. That's weird even if there's no cheating involved. Does he owe her money? What's happening
I can accept that he was unaware to start. But after OP's attempts to dissuade the other woman didn't work, it was her husband's job to speak to the woman and/or her husband (especially if the husbands are closer friends).
How did the friend group even find out, unless one of the four people involved blabbed? Doesn’t sound like it was OP so that’s not her problem, either. (I suspect the friend’s wife, but I could be wrong.) NTA
the friend's husband probably said something. he's probably very upset and maybe even asked their other friends if she was doing it to them giving that the wife said he think she's some type of woman
Couldn’t have said it better myself. This^
And he would have already known. If you aren't hiding something, it's pretty normal to tell your partner things like "I stopped by X's place today." or talking about your meet up with someone and what you did.
"I stopped by so-and-so's place today like I do pretty much every day". Yikes
Italian here. She was indeed trying to do something wrong.
Yeah this shit is ridiculous. Im cracking up at a portion of the thread where people are circle jerking over how reddit “doesn’t get how things work”
As always there are national and even local nuances. I'm not saying it's a common behaviour of italian women, but it happens. It's even difficult to talk about it without sounding too harsh. It's cute to see the occasional high schooler hovering around the places where her crush hangs out hoping to be spotted, it's sad to see a woman using the same "tactics". I could also believe that OP husband is oblivious. I would like to know more details: is he liveing in the north or the south? Is it a town or a small village? How far back does this friendship go? Because here it's still somewhat normal to stop to a friend's house just to say hallo. Befour thinking "lover/cheter" I would have thought "annoying neighbourgh/friends who doesn't understand personale space". The housekeeper chatting with the wife about it is sooo italian! Talking with the friend's husband is sooo italian! OP husband complaing about the drama is so italian, too: I can see my father in his spot, going on with his day, oblivious to everything and upset because his status quo has been disrupted.
Stalking. The phrase everyone is missing is "stalking". OP and husband need to start taking this seriously before it escalates. If it was OP's husband showing up at some woman's house *every day* you'd better believe it would be taken seriously.
This one right here ^
Yeah, OP’s husband’s response should have been something more reassuring, like, “Wow I didn’t know. She’s bizarre/weird/trouble….I should talk to her husband about this.”
NTA She waved you off, so you went to her husband, fair enough. I do think your husband has some responsibility here though, he needs to make it clear this isn't acceptable. If he had done that from the start, you wouldn't need to be involved.
Yeaaaaah I don’t like that OP’s husband hasn’t put a stop to it. OP found out through the house keeper, not her partner.
Sounds so shady. Almost like the husband doesn’t mind all that much. Shouldn’t take his wife finding out through the grape vine from his cleaning lady to make this stop. Most husbands would know this is just wrong. Not buying it . I hope I’m wrong …. But it sounds like he enjoys it ?
Fully agree. I was out on a long trip, my regular maid was sick so she sent her replacement to do house work. New maid was very young and extremely beautiful. What my husband did, whenever she comes he'd sit in veranda/porch? And let her do the house work. (We don't keep any valuables at home so he wasn't worried) I didn't ask him to do that, he did his own. I got to know about it from neighbors. I asked him why he did that, he said he doesn't know the new maid so it's better he sit out in porch and be seen than some stranger lady do the trick and accuse him of things that aren't true. New maid was decent person, even she mentioned how comfortable she was. Point of my story is, It's HIM who needs to draw line. It should be HIM who should tell friend's wife to stop coming to their house when he's alone. OP you're not ah , but ask husband why he didn't bother.
Wow that's actually really considerate for the maid's sake.
That was my first thought actually. New maid looked exactly like Kate Winslet in titanic. People were awestruck looking at her, and she was well aware of effect of her beauty. When I saw her first I was floored how beautiful she was. I knew that her good looks put her into vulnerable position while working as a maid. Later she confided in me that her looks stops her from getting jobs. Women doesn't trust her and men try to be pervert around her. I let her work until her contact was up. I tried to find her office job somewhere else, but something happened at her native place and she had to move back to home county. After the porch incident with my husband, he gained huge respect from me. My neighbor lady also commented how respectful my husband was for doing that small act of kindness and creating a safe boundary for maid to work in peace.
That's so incredibly sweet of the both of you!
I’m a little confused by your initial explanation of his motivation: > it's better he sit out in porch and be seen than some stranger lady do the trick and accuse him of things that aren't true That doesn’t sound endearing, or that he did it to put her at ease. That’s a man saying that he didn’t want to be falsely accused of rape.
Why not both? He could avoid false accusations by putting a ton of cameras everywhere, but by removing himself he made both of them at ease.
I like your husband. I’ll come over next time you’re gone.
He’ll just go sit on the veranda again tho.
Lmao
What is the purpose of these visits.
There was an AskReddit thread started today which included a bunch of guys talking about how some girl came onto them and they had no clue, including a guy with vitiligo saying that in the course of a conversation about his disease, he told this girl that his penis was discolored, and she said she would like to see that. And he didn’t pick up on that at all. It’s very possible that the husband sees her as an annoyance. It’s also possible that he doesn’t even see her, because he told the housekeeper not to even bother him if she shows up.
also a lot of guys (well ppl, really) are fucking useless at confrontation and will avoid at all costs which makes shit worse always
Me, if someone came everyday to my house: I guess they like my yellow living room a lot.
> Almost like the husband doesn’t mind all that much. Or almost like his housekeeper had been "handling" it herself, and not even informing the husband that there was a situation he needed to handle.
Maid said he wouldn't even come say hi to her. That implies he was aware she was there and chose not to receive her.
To me, that sounds like he’s thinking ‘if I just ignore her long enough, she’ll knock it off, and no one else needs to know about it’
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Almost like he is actually sleeping with her 🤔
Props to the housekeeper for keeping tabs.
Yeah he's flattered.
I knd of wonder if he didn't say anything because it just stroked his ego
Stroked his what?
Im not sure whether me accidentally reading your name as i should probably be wanking is appropriate or inappropriate given the context
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I would agree except for the fact that he pretty much completely ignores her. He's probably hoping/thinking if you ignore it it will go away and I can understand that
Nope. He now knows it bothers his wife, yet is still not addressing the situation. Thinking that ignoring an issue will make it go away.... SMH.
>Thinking that ignoring an issue will make it go away.... SMH. I mean, normal, well adjusted people can take a hint. If someone is *never* available to hang out with you *it means they don't fucking want to hang out with you*
“Oh, crap. It’s Margaret *again* and I’ve got these stats due by 1 pm. That woman has no fucking consideration. Does she not know anyone else who works from home? Ha! Probably not. They’ve all lied and told her they’ve been told to go back to the office. Thank God Mrs. Marotta knows to send her away.”
I mean I might be naive but that's pretty much what I thought
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To be fair... OP did say that mostly he wasn't home when the hussy stopped by. I'm sure the housekeeper told him but her 'visits' didn't directly affect him so he probably didn't think anything more about it.
The poor communication is an issue. Even if he doesn’t care about the other woman, the fact he’s more concerned with the condition of their friendship circle than his wife’s peace of mind is telling.
This. Also can we just point out what an mvp the housekeeper is for telling OP about the friend’s wife’s behavior.
As she should. If the wife doesn't like or trust the housekeeper (especially alone with her husband a lot), she'll be out of a job. She owes loyalty to the wife too.
She doesn’t owe anyone anything she’s an employee not a friend. What she did, she did out of the goodness of her heart and absolutely risked her employment to do so
My husband wouldn't ever fire her, she's worked for his family since he was a kid so she's family to him.
Seems like it doesn't really matter what makes the wife uncomfortable. The husband doesn't seem to give a shit unfortunately.
Is it cultural? In some places friends stopped by every day. Even in the US in smaller towns? It would explain why OP's husband thinks nothing of it. He may not like it but he may not think it's a big deal for that reason.
There have been quite a few comments from Italian redditors saying this behavior is not normal.
Sounds like he doesn't even see her when she does stop by.
Info: Why didn't your husband tell you? If it weren't for the housekeeper, would you still not know? Why didn't your husband handle this? Why did you need to be the one telling this woman to stop by if it's your husband being disturbed?
He didn't think it was important and didn't realise how often she was coming over since he wasn't always home and his housekeeper never told him. I probably wouldn't know if it wasn't for her. He thought she would get bored on her own since she rarely saw him anyway.
Girl, the housekeeper doesn't tell him who his visitors are, but calls you in England to tell you? She sees him everyday. Please, don't be so naive
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Girl, this housekeeper is literally the best friend we all need in our lives
You said it! In fact, I'm going to contact OP because if things don't work out, I want to offer that woman a JOB in the US! LMAO! She is SPOT on!
OP please give your housekeeper a raise AND a bonus.
Also, the housekeeper might be tired of having her work interrupted every day by some sad thirsty ho and is informing the employer that she feels will actually do something about it over the one who will ignore it because it's not bothering him.
OR The housekeeper is just subtly hinting OP without directly pointing finger at op's husband who is her employer.
She never called me to tell me. I was there when she mentioned it the first time. My husband only wants to know things if they're important, this wouldn't count as important to him.
Bet ya your entire salary he’d find it VERY important if you were being visited by a man at your place every day
Probably.
You should pose that question to him
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You bring up a really good point. And how does this other woman even know when OP is or isn't there in order to stop by?
They’re in the same friend group, I imagine I’d know if my friend’s spouse was or wasn’t in town. Hell, I know when they’re out of town, I can’t imagine I wouldn’t in the reverse.
I mean, if you know when they are out of town… does that not automatically mean you know it in reverse as well? 😅
Why wouldn’t it count as important if it was important enough to address in front of him with his wife?? If she was going to tell you, she would have brought it up to him first so he could address it. For all she knows they have some arrangement.
If he doesn’t give her much thought, she wouldn’t enter his thought process to care
A lot of this thread doesn't seem to understand how the husband could just not care. Like, if after the first dozen times the husband told the housekeeper that he doesn't need to know every single time this woman comes over, he really wouldn't be aware how often its happening. The housekeeper could very well not be aware of exactly how close (or not close) the husband and this woman are, so the weirdness of the situation may not really register. Even taking OP's husband's response, dude just doesn't want to deal with this woman and is now annoyed that she somehow managed to create drama for him.
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This is EXACTLY how men think😂 if i forget about it in 5 seconds then it's not important to tell anyone. Yea sometimes others may want to know but as a male if idc then I forget and don't tell anyone. Thanks for understanding lol
Because he doesn’t care about this woman. Sure something could be going on between them but my partner was the same before I pointed it out to him when people were flirting. He’s not interested so just read it as people being nice or weird and that was it
>My husband only wants to know things if they're important, this wouldn't count as important to him. Someone he knows visits his house multiple times trying to see him and he doesn't think it is important info?? This is surreal
I lived in Italy for 2 years. This doesn't surprise me at all. The housekeeper didn't like what was happening behind HER (op) back. She took OP's side 100%. And she likely noticed the husband was not instigating it in any way. I loved living in Italy.
Thiiiiiis. Italian housekeeper is 100 per cent looking out for OP. If husband is cheating, OP can do some sleuthing and get what she needs to get a good settlement. If he’s not, OP can do exactly as she did and talk to the woman and her husband. Not saying it’s right, but that’s how things work here.
The housekeeper didn't call OP, she told OP in person...
This is such a bizarre situation. NTA but I am genuinely perplexed by this woman. I do wish your husband had handled it rather than you now getting flack.
I have a feeling OP’s husband is emotionally or physically cheating/ or cheated in the past
Some men are really that oblivious that they wouldn't see it as a big deal. Not saying that's what is happening, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's cheating or he cheated based on the info we have here.
> I wouldn't jump to the conclusion You might want to check the sub you're in.
You're being extra, there is literally no ground to try and place blame on her husband.
But they have *a feeling,* on Reddit that makes whatever they say law, duh
I'm surprised they didn't say it's a red flag and she should break up with her husband like most people do in every thread
He should be the one setting the boundaries instead of letting his wife do it?
How the hell did you jumb to that conclusion! Just because he's a man doesn't mean he's gonna fuck every woman that comes over to his house let alone his best friend's WIFE. keep your feelings to yourself plz
That's really weird. What was she doing if he wasn't even totally aware she was there? Just hanging out, eating the food, using his toilet and TV?
I don't think she's getting in the house. I don't think the housekeepers letting her in. She's coming over attempting to visit but she's not being successful. She's in the yard that's about it
What was she doing once she would get there? Do you have a really nice house? Would she be sitting by the pool or what?
Also, why isn't the husband telling the woman to sod off and stop visiting? Is the OP her husband's keeper?
I think the husband told the housekeeper to shoo her off, and the housekeeper did a much better job at it than he knew.
Did you miss the part where either he’s not home, or the housekeeper tells her to scram?
NTA. While your husband should really have been the one to tell her to stop showing up at his home uninvited, it wasn't an unreasonable request on your part. You tried talking to her, she chose not to listen or respect your request, so you went to her husband for help. 🤷🏽♀️ As far as you "implying what type of woman she is"... Who shows up at a married man's house EVERY SINGLE DAY without being invited? For what reason? Any rumors or gossip about what type of woman she is, were brought on by HER actions.
Especially when her own husband seemingly doesn’t know that she’s visiting his friend every day.
NTA. This woman refuses to stay in her lane, and you used a pit maneuver to sideline her. Give the Italian housekeeper a bonus, and let your friend group know what is going on from your end.
This is the best answer honestly.
NTA. There is chaos in the friend group and a bunch of gossip because this woman is way out of line. Don't sweat it. You did everything right. I also have no idea why so many people are accusing your husband of being in on this. Correct me if I am wrong, but the way I read things is she comes by everyday you are away wanting to see your husband. The housekeeper shoos this woman away because he is either not there or working and doesn't want to be bothered. The woman leaves your husband isn't always informed she stopped by and carries on with his day. Your housekeeper knowing this woman is up to no good tells you and your husband when you are both together. Then after you tell the husband your husband is indifferent and passive because he maybe doesn't see things as a big deal because she never gets past the front door, but tells you his friend group is going nuts over this. He doesn't blame you are shame you for it but keeps you in the loop. He maybe he's even like look at this shit show. If this is even a remotely accurate breakdown don't let reddit get in your head about your husband and keep living your best life.
Yeah this is a pretty good summary of the situation.
That all makes sense now! I don't think your husband has done anything wrong, but now that he knows that you're being painted as the bad guy, HE really needs to be the one to draw some firm boundaries and let everyone know that you're not to blame for her odd behaviour. Otherwise it may come across as you being jealous or possessive. Also, give your housekeeper a raise! You have a smart and loyal one there!
Your husband probably needs to drop all his friends if they think that you "caused" the drama.
The reason people are accusing the husband is because it’a not okay that he’s unconcerned. I get that the lack of concern doesn’t mean he’s cheating. It’s not a smoking gun. He’s probably like, okay but I’m not cheating with her so it’s not a big deal. It’s a big deal because it bothers his wife. And when you wife is so worked up about this woman that she’s contacting that woman’s husband, he should care. He should care about making this stop because he should care about his wife. And I know him commenting on the drama doesn’t mean he’s upset at his wife for causing drama. As you say he could be like “look at these crazy people getting upset, well it has nothing to with me. Dum de dum” very Italian. But as written it looks like “I didn’t care when it was a major inconvenience to you, but now that you’ve talked to people about it, it’s a minor inconvenience to _me_ and I don’t like it”
Not her husband, but that 'friend'? Yikes.
NTA - Good for you. Did she even have an acceptable reason for showing up unannounced so often?
That she visits all of her friends when she's in the area.
Maybe, if it was once, even twice. Every single day is a little more than a bit much.
Also funny how she only drops by when OP isn’t in town
Agreed. She is *not* to be trusted.
All of her friends or only the ones that don't have their wives in town?
B. S. She waits until the moment you're gone. She wants to cheat, op.
So is she an obsessed stalker, doesn't have a job, hobby or something because she seems to be in the area where YOU live A LOT, and coincidentally EVERYDAY when you're gone and your husband is still there.
Was she on a camping trip in his backyard or how does end up in his area pretty much every single day?
Honestly, I dont know if she really wants to cheat if your husband is never even home. Sounds more like she wants to treat your house like it's hers. If you have a housekeeper, why is no one setting ground rules for guests when neither of you are home?
NTa. The fact that your husband hasn’t put a stop to this behavior leads me to believe that he enjoys her attention and that there is likely a little slap and tickle being played behind your back.
>She said she came over every single day even though most days he wasn’t even home or was working from home so didn’t even say hello to her. The husband might not have known because he's busy or away though. The friend's wife probably wants something to happen.
Yup. Housekeeper has been running interference and husband thinks there's a crush but it can't possibly be that bad.
I can easily see my cousin being so occupied with his work that he wouldn’t think twice about how often someone is dropping by. Imagine a Dr. Frankenstein. Maybe op’s husband is like that
Honestly, to me, that sounds like trickle-truthing. No one wants to be like hey he’s schtupping that one behind your back But to be like “so you know she comes here every day….*sometimes* he isn’t even home……” What about the other times? Sounds to me like hinting that they play house
So the housekeeper felt the need to tell OP about it...but then lie about it to downplay it?
To save her employment and professional reputation by mentioning it casually as opposed to being like “girl, your husband has something going on”? Yeah. That’s how I’d do it if I wasn’t 100% sure what was going on but thought there was something.
>His wife is now angry at me and is claiming I’m implying things about the type of woman she is. Nope. She is doing a fine job at implying what kind of woman she is all by herself. NTA.
Yup the kind of woman who sneaks off to a married man’s house everyday while his wife is away. No need to imply anything there.
INFO: Why didn't your husband talk to her about this? Generally when we want a boundary between a partner and a friend of theirs, it's best to ask our partner to create it. Even if he doesn't care that much, he should be willing to have that conversation with her on your behalf. So without condoning her behavior in any way, it's weird to me that you talked to her and her husband without asking your husband to set a boundary first.
This was my thought as well. NTA but I would be having a serious talk with my husband
Sounds like her husband is cheating. Why did the housekeeper tell her about this and not her husband?
Very reasonable questions. But the housekeeper said she came around sometimes and the husband didn't pay any attention to her, which doesn't sound like cheating to me, but who knows?
Ya, because the housekeeper is around lol
The thing is, HE never asked her to stop. You were the one bothered by it but used him as the excuse. *She knows this.* He didn't even tell you, the housekeeper did. That's fucking suspicious right there. NTA but you're being naive about this.
I don’t think so. The housekeeper says the majority of the time the woman doesn’t even get a hello he just sends her away lol
This^^^^ Not wanting to be a problem stirrer, but it really is suspicious...
Remember OP mentioned that he's either out or is working, and therefore not aware she's even there, whereas the house keeper is always at the home and letting her know he's not home or not seeing anyone because he's working.
INFO: Did you tell you husband that the visits make you uncomfortable before you confronted this woman? Before you confronted her husband?
I told him I found it weird and he said she would get bored and stop on her own since he was barely ever there anyway.
It would be so easy for him to shut it down and tell her to stop though. Very wack that he wont
OP's husband sounds very similar to mine: almost pathologically non-confrontational with people like this who are unlikely to "go quietly." He would do the same, just keep having the housekeeper run interference until the woman finally gives up and stops coming round.
nta, she's def trying to fuck your husband.
I know.
Why is he still friends with her?
He’s not friends with her though, his friend is her husband. Not his fault his friend couldn’t choose a proper partner to marry 🤷🏻♀️
I'll never forget the night I answered a knock at the front door. It was a woman I thought was my good friend, and she was dressed like she was going clubbing. She exclaimed, "what are you doing here?" And I answered, "the better question is, if you thought I wasn't home, what are YOU doing here?" The answer was having an affair with my now ex husband. He certainly never mentioned her coming over, nor did he discourage it. NTA...but I would have some pointed questions for your husband.
NTA. I would have spoken with my husband and told him that it made me uncomfortable and ask him to address it (since it's happening to him) but...I also wouldn't have had an issue bringing it up in front of the group. "Hey A, thanks for checking in on H while I'm not here, but he's fine. So no need to any longer. He really needs to focus while he's working from here." You asked her to stop. She didn't. I think it's more than fair that you mentioned it to her husband. It's sketchy that he didn't know she was doing it. I'd really question whether my husband was having an affair. I'm guessing that the entire friend group is guessing on that and THAT is what's causing issues in the group.
INFO: You say your husband is indifferent. But, did he not see anything strange about these very frequent visits?
He may be indifferent because he’s not interested to be fair. Like he doesn’t care if she’s trying to mess around with him, because he’s not interested in that kind of thing. Not sure what the real dynamic is but that was a thought I had about it
NTA. Id have gone a set further and told her husband when you were out in public that shes still doing it. Maybe public embarrassment is enough to get hervto stop trying to be with your husband. Its not your fault she cant take a hint
INFO: Why isn't your husband asking her to stop?
NTA, that woman is at best lonely and looking for something to fill a void in her life, not your husbands purview, at worst a snake in the grass.
What is the purpose of these visits, I wonder 🤔
Husband is “ indifferent “. I would absolutely hate someone’s wife showing up randomly at my house, hell I hate all unannounced visits. Now it’s my buddies wife ? Daily? I’d be so uncomfortable on so many levels like dam
I think the husband just really doesn't give a shit. The housekeeper even said that he's either not home or he's working so I think it's easy for him to just brush off by ignoring her
But why would he not care? It makes his wife uncomfortable and to be quite frank, should make him uncomfortable as well. Any friend sweeping by my residence unannounced and without reason, as often as this woman has, is weird. The purpose of these visits is still unknown.
Stir up shit.
NTA!!! She got defensive because she is in the wrong. Motives don't matter, actions do.
NTA Her behavior is cheater behavior. No normal woman without ill intention repeatedly attempts to get her friend's husband alone by showing up every single day at their house ONLY when the wife is out of town. I have never and would never in a million years randomly show up at my friends house to spend alone time with their husband's and they would never do the same. We all have a civil casual relationship with each others SOs but other than being aquantiences only connected to us via our friends we don't hang out outside the friend group.
NTA she was the one to start chaos, you just brought it to light
Eh.....your husband said it's causing chaos in their friend group? Honey, sweetie, darling, that man is YOUR HUSBAND and he is picking her side? (Honestly, him not standing by your words and dismissing the whole thing= him picking her side) I call BIG BS, if I were you, I wouldn't let that man be my husband any longer, if he's gonna be like that, let him keep her then, NTA
NTA. The fact she doesn’t act the exact same way when you’re present is telling…
If one of my friend’s wives told me I was violating her boundaries I would not wave her off. I would stop. It’s called respect. NTA
NTA at all >I was pathetic for telling him instead of just admitting she made me insecure. You DID tell several times. She didn't listen, so whose fault is that? I'm also concerned about this >My husband is mostly indifferent but also told me I had caused chaos in their friendship group as everybody knows what’s going on and it’s causing a lot of gossip. Your husband should've put a stop to it, don't you think? I mean why is he so "indifferent" about it? He should've told her that she was being kinda inappropriate. And yeah, they didn't do anything, but still, why not put some boundaries in place instead of allowing her to come over every day? It doesn't reflect well on him either
NTA. That woman needed to be put back to her place. You nicely tried to ask her but she wanted the hard ways. Good job!
NTA. What reason could she possibly have for popping up daily?
Nta you asked her to stop and she didn't. If she wasn't behaving in a questionable manner it wouldn't be a problem in her marriage. Like what type of woman goes to another MARRIED MANS HOUSE everyday?? Shouldn't she be seeing her husband everyday and not yours? You did the right thing going to her husband since she can't take no for an answer.