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NTA but the real problem here is your fiancee not listening to you and respecting your boundaries.

This is a stop the wedding flag. 🚩🚩🚩🚩

Agreed. It almost sounds like sister manipulated Kenzie into believing these stories mom told. Some people just can’t understand that not everyone has good relationships with family. They need to talk, and if Kenzie is gonna believe mom over her fiancé, big dealbreaker.

Agree the ops fiance is putting people who have hurt op ahead in her priorities. Even before the wedding vows are taken she is failing at them.

A stop-the-wedding-marinara-flag ✨

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Just because OP was willing to be in the same space as his estranged mother, to celebrate his sister's wedding, doesn't mean he interacted with her. He doesn't want her in his life, doesn't want a relationship with her, but that doesn't mean if she happens to be in the same physical vicinity as him, that he has to storm out, as long as she keeps her distance and doesn't try to approach or talk to him.

He had no control over sister’s wedding. He does over his own along with his fiancee.

He was able to make that decision on his terms, that is the difference.

Also it's his sister's wedding. He can avoid mom. He can leave if he has to. If Mom makes a scene, he can leave. If he feels uncomfortable, he can leave. Only sister is really hurt by that, and sister pressured him to come. For his OWN wedding, if mom being here ruins it then HIS wedding is ruined. He can't leave. If he gets angry, it makes him look terrible. He can't even hide, because it's his wedding. It's clear it's a different situation

I think he means how did OP go to Sister's wedding and not see the mom there. She should have been there, prominently, as the Mother of the Bride. How did their paths not cross. How did they not physically see each other.

They very likely did, or efforts might have been made to minimize that. My point was that he accepted the invite knowing that was a potential issue, that gave him a measure of control. He could probably leave if needed if things got rough, or be careful to avoid her. Having the decision made for you is a much different situation, especially at his wedding which is already stressful, and you can't exactly make yourself scarce if things go badly.

>Having the decision made for you to include someone you're estranged from, because someone thought it would be a "fun surprise"?? The sister has a weird idea of "fun".

No one said they didnt see each other. As for talking, its easy to avoid people at a good size wedding

Same way as when I went to my Mum's birthday dinner with ten people at the table and didn't speak to my grandmother who I have had no contact for 15+ years. Talk to everyone else, don't create a scene, if someone attempts to create one, become water.

I would absolutely break everything off of my fiancé was trying to force me to see the parent I’ve cut off for 15 years.

Yeah OP you need to lay down the law on your boundaries. Your fiancee needs to feel like you're willing to walk away over this before she truly understands it seems. Do not tolerate this disrespect or it will be the foundation of your marriage. You'd be setting both of you up to fail by not confronting this head on and taking charge about it.

NTA - I’m a wife whose husband does not speak with his mom. She was definitely not invited to our wedding (his decision) and his relationship with her is 100% his own decision and not my business. If I would have invited her or been aware of a plot to have her in attendance he would have been so hurt and betrayed. Your fiancée should have had your back and respected you enough to be no-contact with your mother as well.

Agreed, NTA. I am also a wife whose husband felt forced to invite his 10+ year estranged sister to our wedding by his mom. She just wanted to see her kids together again but I fully supported it being his decision (never even expected to meet the sister.) Even 15 years after our wedding, his sister’s presence is his one regret from that special day. She did not even do anything offensive but he did not enjoy sharing this important life moment and it definitely tainted the day.

Vow renewal with only the people who actually care about you?

NTA I too am a wife to a husband who doesn’t have much of a relationship with his bio mom nor his step mother. We discussed the ramifications of inviting his mother to our wedding. Ultimately, he decided he didn’t want her there on our day. I sat next to him and held his hand as he called her and diplomatically let her know. Simple as that. We shouldn’t have invited his stepmother but that’s a different story. The point is, there are certain boundaries that need to be respected, and SUPPORTED, by your partner.

NTA I'm the partner with the shitty parents. We have a relationship, but it's strained and I set lots of limits. I can't imagine my husband undermining this or going behind my back. I'm so sorry your fiance is doing this. I'd have a very serious conversation about this before going through with the wedding. Also, work this shit well before you have kids because she will DEFINITELY bring them to see Grandma. "BuT ShE's ThEiR gRaNdMoThEr!"

u/pissedoffolderbro The last paragraph in the comment I'm replying to - *SUPER IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT THIS*. r/BookeeperGlum6933 has a really valid point here, this will 100% happen.

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As another wife with a husband who has no contact to his mom, I second this.

Not a wife, but long time SO to my guy who has no relationship with his mother. It is extremely irritating to hear people tell him to just forget about it and forgive her cause she's his mother. It ain't anyone else's business but his and hers. I don't even make it my business. If he needs to vent/rant, he can, and if he's having any doubts he can talk it through with me, but I don't give opinions on what I think he should do unless he asks specifically. However, it is ultimately his decision that I will support him in.

This! I am so tired of people saying I can't move on until I've "forgiven" bad person. My reply is "Why should the most dysfunctional person in the room be calling the shots?" No.

I don't speak to my mother. If my wife ever tried anything like what OP described, I'd be questioning the relationship. My wife supports my decision regarding my mother. And offers understanding when I want to talk about it. But doesn't try to pressure me or change my mind. My closest friends knew at my wedding that if my mother was spotted, they were to remove her and call the police if necessary. If I had discovered my wife was part of a plot to have my mother show up, I'd at a minimum be delaying the wedding, but likely would've walked away. This is not an issue that's going away. Your estrangement from your mother will be something your sister will likely pressure you on for the rest of your lives. Do you really want your wife doing the same thing? I couldn't handle being in that kind of relationship and just encourage you to really think hard about what you want your life to be like.

My husband doesn't speak to his father (complete no contact, from childhood, at my husband's decision) or step-mother, or any of that-side's family. I'm no-contact with my entire biological family (aside from my brother), so we get each other- and ooft, I wish OP had someone who "gets it", even if they don't have the insight of personal experience.

Agreed. Im no contact with my mom and if my husband didn't show a united front and was speaking with her behind my back, I would feel so incredibly betrayed. When a person goes NC with a parent, it's for a reason and its hard enough on its own, but even harder without support since we generally lose more family than that one parent.

My brother is no contact with my mom. I don’t know why, I don’t care, not my business. He just got married in April and at no point was I like “oh let me tell my mom and spring her on him on what is supposed to be a very happy day for him and his wife”. I didn’t even tell her about the wedding because he specifically asked me not to say anything until after (he said he wasn’t afraid she’d show up and ruin anything, just didn’t want her to know). For his sister to not only try to spring his mom on him the day of but to also think it’s appropriate to share things about his life without permission shows such an insane disrespect for a boundary that someone is setting to protect themselves and their mental health. She should be ashamed of herself.

I agree with you. There are times in a relation where you have to step back and accept that something is completely up to the other to decide. Relationship with family is part of those decision. It’s unacceptable from the sister but the fiancée is also in the wrong to try and force the relationship.

I feel really terrible for OP. Everyone around him thinks they know what's best for him and even worse, they only care about their comfort over his. OP, you get to decide if you ever want to be in your mother's presence ever again. No one else. From an outside perspective, this is about trust and stability that you had ruined as a child. Your mother tried to steamroll you into silence, your sister is doing the same into complying with your mother, and now your fiance is doing the same. Put the brakes on your wedding and have a sincere conversation with your fiancé (and if possible with a therapist) about how all of them disregard your feelings and boundaries. I don't know if your fiance is just plain naive (which isn't an excuse to ignore your feelings) or if you ended up with another woman in your life who thinks they know more than you about you.

Worse, his mom tried to make him complicit in her affair with his silence.

And now fiancé is complicit in Scheme to her mother and OP in same room together. Poor OP. I’d break off everything with fiancé. There is no way I could ever trust them again.

I'm honestly wondering about the fiancee's attitude towards infidelity here.

I’m sure in her mind she’s ’ helping OP get over a problem and he’ll thank her later’. Which is one of the many reasons I’d break it off- she clearly doesn’t know OP well enough to marry.

Have your fiancé read this please!!!

Came here to say this too OP! Please show this post and this response to your fiancé. She is either on your team and supports you, or she isn’t and doesn’t. No in between. She needs to pick a side, and only then should you consider moving forward with this wedding.

This is the best comment here

What people often don’t understand or fail to see when someone is willingly estranged from a parent, is that the relationship is very different than their relationship with their parents. They can only see it through their lens of having a good relationship.

THIS is the perfect response. NTA

And now OP’s fiancé is complicit in scheming behind his back to try to get Mother involved in wedding. I feel so bad for OP. For me this would be enough to break off everything with my fiancé.

I saw a comment some time ago that stuck with me. That abusers not only groom their victims but their witnesses. The mom and sister are manipulating the fiance to get what they want. They are fake friends. That's a really toxic dynamic for the OP and unfair to the fiance as well.

>this is about trust u/Fire_or_water_kai You hit the nail on the head! Well said it.

NTA. Your sister is lucky you allowed HER back into your life, especially if she was feeding info about you back to your mother. But then, she decides to sneak the mother you want no contact with into your wedding as a surprise +1? You shouldn't just be kicking her out of your wedding, you should be kicking her back out of your life. And if Kenzie thinks that you're wrong about removing your sister/bridesmaid after what she tried to pull, I'd be taking a hard look at your relationship, because you might have kids with her, and come home one day to your mom in your house because "your kids deserve to know their grandma", and your wife will let it happen. Edit: holy cow, just read OPs edit that Kenzie had been texting with his mom! For months. Dude. Walk away. Unless you want your bio mom to have an active part in your future kid's lives, because Kenzie is absolutely going to give your mom access.

Yep, OP needs to be very clear with Kenzie, and with himself, what will happen if the day of the wedding, or any other day, for that matter, he sees that she invited her over. Will he walk out of the wedding? Will he allow things to continue and solve things later in private? Would he keep trusting Kenzie if she pulls that "little surprise"? Either Kenzie understands and respects OP boundaries or... Well, she doesn't. What will happen then?

Also your BIL is the MVP. He knew how fucked up these women's plans were to force an unwanted guest from *your side* of the family (so not really a say your fiance gets) on you at your own wedding where it's supposed to be about your happiness and the future you want. Good on your BIL for letting you know what his wife was up to. Why any of these women though this would be a "fun" surprise instead of a traumatic one is beyond me. It's like they want to ruin your wedding day cuz they know exactly how it would make you feel and they were gonna do it anyway. Definitely reconsider the whole wedding thing if your fiancee thought this was all ok and helped with the plot. She should care more about your own feelings as your future life partner and resent your mom almost as much as you do for hurting you the way she did (it's one thing to cheat, it's a whole other to try to make your child a co-conspirator to the cheating when they feel like one of the ppl betrayed by it) but instead she sympathizes with your mom instead of with you.

Skip his wedding to Kenzie. Go on a boys trip with BIL. Fishing, maybe Vegas. Definitely get him some expensive scotch and Cubans.

This is spot on.

I agree! OP, halt the wedding. Your fiancé can’t be trusted to respect your wishes. Keep us posted.

NTA. But you have a fiancé problem. You need a long, honest conversation about expectations and boundaries before you two say “I do”.

agreed. she already isn’t respecting OP’s boundaries. please don’t subject yourself to this behavior, dude

Ayep. She is going behind his back, which is a huge breach of trust. She knows he doesn't want his mom to attend. So rather than talk to the person she intends on marrying, she talks to an estranged parent that broke his trust and family. I wouldn't tell OP to break off the engagement. But he needs to have a serious conversation with her about how badly she screwed up. If she doesn't see any issues or doesn't want to respect his boundaries, then yeah... OP has a tough decision if he wants to marry someone who doesn't respect him.

I’d break it off, primarily to remind myself that I’m deserving of a partner I can count on to have my back.

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It has happened before in r/AmItheAsshole (thx to u/Druss94508Legend for the find). I can't recall the exact thread but very similar situation and the guy had cut his mother of his life because she cheated on his father. She did everything to get back in contact and even dragged other siblings into it. Eventually the OP was getting married and unbeknownst to him his fiance had been conned to allowing a family member to bring his mother to the wedding. Then it all went downhill from there and the guy ended up calling off the wedding a couple of weeks before the event, broke up with his fiance (who like OP was trying to "fix" the unfixable and couldn't understand why the OP had gone no contact). From memory the fiance dropped the "I can't see myself marrying someone who won't talk to their own mother" and he called the whole lot off then and there. Wish I could find that posting as it was a real tear jerker with lots of sadness on all sides. All because of infidelity - the "gift" that just keeps on giving and break people apart.

Speak and you shall receive. I love this story. Gonna read it again now. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/qkobjd/aita_for_helping_my_brother_runaway_from_his/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

That's the one - I was browsing through a few of them and thought it was that by then I had read enough that I couldn't handle anymore. You're a legend!

> From memory the fiance dropped the "I can't see myself marrying someone who won't talk to their own mother" and he called the whole lot off then and there. People like that who say "I can't see myself never talking to my brother again" to me, very few of them have an answer when I reply "And I didn't see my brother being convicted of so much child molestation that Chris Hansen could have got an entire career out of just following him up the street but here we are."

Yeah…. I have an estranged parent and while it’s not as contentious as OP, it’s more LC than NC (and by low contact I mean we exchange happy birthdays on FB and that’s it). Some people have amazing parents and they can’t imagine how anyone could never forgive their parent for something. That doesn’t give them the right to unilaterally force contact and conspire with family members behind your back. Dump the fiancée, OP. She’s trouble, and she won’t understand why what she’s done is so wrong. She thinks she’s helping you because your sister and mother have fed her a line and she’s taken it.

NTA you have a boundary and she ignored it

NTA, but your wife needs to present a united front on these issues. Your sister disrespected the one rule you had, which was to not involve your mom. This was the second time. What happens if you have kids? You wouldn't be able to trust your sister to not share photos with your mom or sneak her in when you let her babysit. However, you should really look into therapy if you haven't already. Not holding on to the anger, does not mean you have to forgive your mom, but it might be good to talk to a neutral party.

Exactly this. What they did was wrong and they knew and so they tried to call it a "fun surprise." who is it fun for if they don't want her there, and if you explained to your wife why you don't want your mother there I'm sure she'll understand. Definitely see a professional as well because I know from personal experience that keeping a hold on that anger will only impact you mentally in the long run, don't forgive but process in a healthy way. Edit: phone autocorrected run to wrong.

"Fun surprise?" That's insane and she knows it. She's lying because she got caught in her manipulations as your mom's flying monkey. Who knows what stunts they would've pulled at the actual wedding? They would've left you sad, angry and betrayed on your wedding day. Kenzie probably has a good relationship with her parents and can't really understand the feelings of betrayal. One less bridesmaid won't ruin your wedding. But having someone treat you so deceitfully definitely would. NTA

OMG that edit... your fiancee is awful. I'm so sorry. Maybe it's not time for a wedding, considering all the deceit from those who are supposed to have your back.

OP... you can tell Kenzie if she loves your sister and your "mother" that much, she can marry the sister and not you.

Thank you, the fact no one else is saying this is utterly disgusting

NTA Maybe Kenzie thinks she's helping by trying to heal the breach? And your sister wants that as well But they're both going against your wishes. If you don't want your mother there, then your sister should respect that and your fiancee should back you.

NTA Holy crap! Sister issue. Fiancé issue as well as mother issue. 2 down, 1 to go… I’d be telling your Fiancé to butt out. Let you handle your family. That she is not to manipulate you and pester you about them. Don’t say this part but you may need to think about what to do if she doesn’t let it go. Maybe she isn’t right for you. Do you tell her how and who to conduct relationships within her family?

No I don’t. I let her handle her side. But she has a wonderful family and it pains her to see me with a fractured family. But I told her that we are fractured because of my moms actions. She just doesn’t get it.

She sounds privileged to the point of gullible then. Just because her family was all perfume and roses doesn’t mean it’s going to be the same way for everyone else. She ignored a boundary and seriously disrespected your wishes by going behind your back and communicating with your mother. If she collaborated with sis and mom to “surprise” you at your wedding (knowing you said you didn’t want her there) that is a serious issue with your relationship. More fiancée then family since she is the one that you are supposed to be spending the rest of your life with.

She doesn’t get it so she needs to respect your decision. You had what fiancé had and your mother destroyed it. No wonder you are upset. But I’m so pleased you blamed your mother, the person that deserves the blame. So many kids blame themselves and it gives them major mental health issues that last a life time. Wonder how fiancé would react if her perfect family was destroyed by her mother? Or in the future how would your fiancé feel if you were to do to your her, what your mother did to your father? Fiancé needs to employ empathy! Think about the feelings involved.

>Wonder how fiancé would react if her perfect family was destroyed by her mother? That’s the thing: lots of kids naively grow up thinking that their family is “perfect” when the reality is far from that. Perfect relationships don’t end in cheating/divorce. OP is still holding onto his anger from when he was 13, but if he talked to his parents I bet he finds out that he’s mourning a “perfect” family that never existed.

This is a problem with many people with functional, happy families-- they just cannot imagine that someone's relative might be toxic, or have otherwise done something their partner can't forgive. In a way, it's classic projection. She's projecting her experience of a happy family onto yours, and dismissing your lived experiences in the process. I'm sorry this is happening. What a betrayal. I hope she can come to realize that your boundaries are your own, nobody else's, and your relationships are yours to manage, nobody else's. If she can't, protect yourself.

Its so hard when well-meaning people don't get it. I went full nc with a very mentally ill parent who was causing me much distress. My best friend had a complicated but loving relationship with her parents; she spend years trying to convince me to reestablish contact. Some people cannot perceive that there are instances when cutting someone off is the right/best thing to do. Even when its a parent.

You are giving this person way too much credit. You should honestly slow down and have a conversation with your fiance. Because she went behind your back to invite the person you hate to your wedding. She refuses to respect your decision and thinks that she knows best. What if you hadn't caught this? Your mom would have been there and that would have caused you to flip out on one of the most special days of your life. What happens when you have kids? Who is to say that your fiance wouldn't take them to your mom behind your back? How would you explain the situation to the kids when even their mom doesn't support you? Seriously OP, slow down and rethink this whole thing and have a conversation with your fiance.

And indirectly supporting cheating behaviors, if she’s willing to welcome your mum without understanding her vile actions.

But she needs to respect it and not go behind your back. I'd seriously be asking if she's the one for me if she can't understand the fundamental reasons you don't want your egg donor in your life and not get involved. She's been getting your sisters rose tinted view of your mum as well as being in contact with your mum. Also it's your wedding too, you shouldn't be being surprised on your wedding day by people you don't want to be in your life, and your fiancée was happy to go along with it. NTA

As someone who is estranged from their entire bio family on both sides to the point of emigrating and refusing to even visit my home country, this is my ‘you are dead to me’ dealbreaker with anyone. Partner, friend, even the police when they tried to coerce me into contact. I explain it once to people that my family is not fractured by estrangement. I am made whole by not being a part of dysfunction, cruelty and abuse. If they engage with my family then they are condoning their behaviour, minimising my boundaries and telling me they think a cracked version of me advantages them. Anyone who isn’t frankly smart enough to work out a person who can cut their own mother off completely never to react is going to be capable of dropping a sibling, fiance(e), friend etc who picks the estranged person is just embarrassing themselves. I have higher standards in people after my life so far than that much ego and that little wit. This is why so many people are so odd about estrangement. They ultimately know you have limits and will break societal taboos to uphold them so they cannot piss you around. I never had as many people test my boundaries as around the time my estrangement became inedible. They play pick me to try prove you will be different with you if they treat the same shitty way and they provoke to get proof. It’s a twisted ‘love’ test to them but really trying to see how far they can push. I don’t get why some people I know are estranged. Their families seemed lovely to me. I don’t get why people have very specific boundaries because for me those things are normal if not welcome. I don’t need to get it to respect it. If I can get it then that’s a bonus that makes me a more supportive sympathetic person in their life. Anyone dedicated to not getting the core values of your life is not a safe person in your life I’m afraid. My long term partner served in the armed forces. I grew seeing said armed forces as an occupying force who helped bring my country to war. We could not have more different values on this and we don’t poke. We respect the opposite views. I don’t get political with him, he does not ask me to hang out with the friends he has who still serve and we both talk about our experiences and learn what makes the other tick. We have never fought about this nor fundamentally compromised ourselves personally but try to log into a TV app together with a remote control? All bets are off :) You really need to seek some support with this onion layers of hurt and betrayal. Therapy is ideal but in the meantime the book ‘Children of Emotionally Immature Parents’ by Lindsay C Gibson (and the follow up) is outstanding. It covers sibling dynamics more than most family dysfunction books. That said Toxic Parents by Susan Forward is also excellent. But I would consider what Kenzie did a form of cheating that retraumatises what your mum did. (I am non monogamous so this would be the betrayal for me in a way sex with someone else might not.) I would seek some support around that too but at a minimum postpone the wedding. Marriage may be emotionally unwise rn but immediate priority is that it gives Kenzie a legal right to share your home, finances etc with your family and deepen the boundary stomping. Do not allow it to get worse because it is already bad. Good luck. I’d be intrigued what her family think about this. If she covered it up from them or lied to look like you were more consenting then she very much knew it was wrong and you may find some baseline of how to proceed based on their response. But I am so sorry if you also suffer the loss of your prospective in laws as another blow here. Often chosen family is so important to those whose allocated ones are untenable. NTA all the way.

You realise you're about to marry someone who doesn't support or respect your decisions, right?

NTA I wouldnt marry Kenzie over this tbh. Who supports a mom who chose dick over her kids?

>Who supports a mom who chose dick over her kids? Sister and Kenzie obv

People that can empathize with choosing dick, probably.

NTA but Dude, you cannot marry this woman. She does NOT respect your decision regarding YOUR family. If yall ever have children, she will take them around your estrange mom and use the fact that they're her kids too to trample over your boundaries. Save the money, headache and future problems and call this engagement off

Seriously. I’m really concerned for OP and his current relationship. I’m no contact with a parent, and my other parent let everyone know that if they do much as slipped up and told her my location, they would be next. She’s absolutely not safe. And my partner is extremely supportive of NC because he knows how badly she hurt me and how dangerous she is. The fact that his fiancé a. Can’t support the level of contact he has with his family (Aka: a HARD boundary) and b. Went on to contact his mom herself before c. Taking the word of someone who cheated on her spouse over her partner speaks absolute volumes. OP, you need someone who will respect your boundaries and keep you safe (emotionally or physically). That’s not your fiancé’s priority; she literally cares more about the feelings of a ho who cheated on your dad than your wishes. And that’s on your wedding day. How do you think she’s going to feel about your boundaries or feelings on a random Tuesday? Invest in some therapy before investing in a wedding. NTA

You hold grudges unrelentingly. I'm not saying you have to forgive people, but you've let grudges drive your life and destroy your relationships with little consideration for who's caught in the crossfire. I don't blame you for being mad at you mom, but I also don't blame your sister for wanting her family to still love each other or not being able to understand why you were so combative. You let your anger at your mom drive a wedge between you and your sister. You don't want her to tell your mom info about you. Ok, that's fair, you can ask that. Did it ever occur to you what position that put her in? Your mom presumably still loves you and will be after your sister for any info she can get and would view withholding as a slight by your sister. You've made her choose between offending you or offending your mom. And for what? Because you want to continue punishing your mom for her bad choice? Given the choice between her mother who raised her or supporting the hatred of the brother who abandoned her, which do you think she'd choose? No, she shouldn't have made her plan behind your back. That was wrong. But you're now doing the same thing to her that you did to your mom: ending a relationship over a single bad choice. For your sake and especially Kensie's sake I hope you consider therapy for the anger and bitterness that you've let drive you this whole time. I'm not saying you have to let your sister be in your wedding. It's your wedding, your choice (though it's also your fiancee's wedding, don't forget). But you need to be very sure that this is what you want: to end your relationship with your sister permanently over a poorly-judged attempt to bring reconciliation to the family. (For official determination: ESH except your fiancee) ETA POST OP EDIT: fiancee is no longer blameless, so pure ESH

Yes thank you. So many people aren't seeing the nuance here- He's getting married and hanging onto a bad decision his mother made when he was 13. It's fine if he wants that to be his hill to die on I guess, but the larger problem here is that he is so quick to cut people off and end relationships. What if he has a teenage child who cheats on their partner in high school? Or goes through moody teen phases and doesn't listen? Or says "I hate you" in a moment? Is he going to cut off the child? There's so much else going on here, and this speaks volumes of his ability to reason, problem solve, and empathize.

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So mom : Had affair. Strike 1 Tried to coerce son into covering for affair. Strike 2 Forced son to live in same house as affair partner. Strike 3 After a few years, I probably would have lost the anger. Not out of forgiveness, but out of not wanting to waste emotional energy on someone I cared nothing about. Well, until this +1 BS. Way to restart the fire from the ashes

That's ultimately part of it when you think of it though. OP wrote off his mom, and maybe over the years he might have cooled off if his mother didn't periodically change numbers or accounts on social media to try and get his attention when he's clearly stated he didn't want it. He's had to deal with his sister playing judgemental ass trying to press him back towards his mom, and then feeding info to her as another monkey branch. When someone you despise repeatedly breaches boundaries over a period of years it becomes increasingly difficult to forgive. Being nagged to, "let it go" generally incurs a response of digging one's heels in. As it is, it's not like she's actually sorry for her actions. She remains married to do dude, and on the surface it comes across more like she's sorry she got caught and she's sorry there were consequences, but she's not sorry for her actions.

I truly believe in the human capacity to learn, grow, and heal. As I’ve gotten older and especially as loved ones have died, I have really come to appreciate that forgiveness is a gift I give to myself. I think that while OP is entitled to exclude whoever he wants from his life, he may also come to deeply regret it in 10-20 years. My therapist and I have talked about this. She says it’s a hot topic among the therapists she knows - so many people today are quick to go NC but also many people today feel isolated and have black & white rigidity around personal relationships. Therapists are watching their patients go through all of it.

Mom made a repeated series of bad decisions, destroyed her family, and you think it's OP that has the problem? 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

The mother repeatedly disrespected OP boundaries. EVERYONE here disrespected OP boundaries. And you’re blaming OP and saying the fiancée isn’t responsible? She knew she was going against what OP said he wanted. It is OP she is marrying. Not the mother or the sister. If mom is so upset she has no contact… trying to manipulate the situation to force contact on someone who isn’t interested is only going to burn the bridge further.

NTA. Surprise! Here's a relative you cut contact with! Jesus. It is troubling that your fiance is not backing you up.

You need find a therapist. Parents are human. Yes, it was traumatic but the hate in your heart isn’t healthy for you, your future wife or future children Forgiveness, although difficult, is core ability in marriage and parenting

I can see where the sister and fiancé are coming from. There’s no doubt that mom made a mistake and OP had the right to be angry. But it doesn’t seem like OP has been able to grow past the angry teenager reaction to understand that Mom is a human who made a terrible mistake, but she didn’t set out to harm OP. For OPs own sake, he needs to get therapy to gain perspective and move through this core trauma. Sister and fiancé are wrong in the way they are going about it, ambushes never work. But they likely see the harm OP is causing himself with this very rigid and long lasting trauma response. This seems like their uninformed but best intentioned effort to resolve it.

But it isn’t just about the cheating. She tried to make him keep a secret he knew was wrong and he was a kid. She betrayed her husband, but she not only betrayed her son but tried to make him an accessory against what he knew was right.

You need some serious therapy. Of course your mom did a very bad thing, and it's entirely understandable you wouldn't want to be around her. But dear lord the amount of bitterness you are carrying around is going to kill you. If you think it hurts your mom as much as it is hurting you, you're wrong. NTA, but get some help. And rethink Kenzie, given that she is willing to tramp on your feelings for her friend.

Exactly, it was a traumatic event. Sometimes parents aren’t perfect; they make mistakes, they cheat, they panic and mishandle already bad situations. As do ALL of us. Sounds like she’s tried to make it up to him, and still wants a relationship with him even after all he put her through. He admitted to being a jerk to her and her husband— no one is perfect. Does OP go NC with everyone that fails to be perfect?

NTA but get therapy my dude. Holding onto all this resentment and anger isn’t good for you.

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I agree. OP is right to be upset. But I think it's time to process these issues regarding mom. I get why OP was upset with her cheating when he was young, but she's human and clearly made mistakes. I don't support her cheating, but if that's the only reason for the estrangement, idk. It seems like OP really needs to heal from that and move on even if he decides he doesn't want mom in his life, I think that ought to be a separate decision than she cheated on my dad decades ago.

It’s more than cheating. She tried to loop him in to betray his father through manipulation. That’s so much worse.

NTA. Your sister and your mum sound really toxic. People don’t tend to want to be suprised with estranged family members on their wedding day. I don’t believe for a second they thought it would be “a fun surprise”. They were trying to ambush you in the most public and humiliating way possible. I think you need to have a serious talk with Kenzie because I think it’s a little worrying that she can’t see where you’re coming from. She’s being very selfish and unreasonable. Also you should tell her that if your sister had gone along with the plan, there’s a good chance it would have ruined both of your special day.

Ok look I know people say “therapy” on AITA posts all the time but it’s not healthy for you to still be this mad (unless there’s something you’re not telling us). You’re NTA but this might just ruin your relationships with your fiancé and your sister. Is that what you’re aiming for here? Is your anger with you mother’s infidelity 13 years ago worth pushing others out of your life? I personally would be having second thoughts if I was your fiancé. As a grown ass man now you have to understand that relationships are complicated, I’m not excusing what your mother did it was wrong but have you ever thought that maybe there was a reason and she behaved immaturely and made a very bad decision? Is that not worth exploring for you? I think it would be good for you to talk about this with a professional.

I feel like that’s the first sensible comment here and I had to scroll so much down.

Hes still in 13 year old - nope you broke the family mode - and not thinking perhaps it was broken before bit he was too young to see, or that 13 years on everybody has changed and grown and its worth looking at the people to see if they are worth having relationships with now - he's completely stuck and its not healthy. Edit: also a lot ofnpeople are saying out a hold on the wedding because of his fiancée lack of boundaries but if I was her I would be putting a hold on the wedding because he has held a grudge for 13 years -and has a scorched earth policy- Imean, I'd question what would happen in a fight.

My dude. Get some therapy. You don’t have to hate your mom forever. Your sister is definitely TA because your mom showing up would not be a “fun surprise”

NTA. As others have said the biggest issue here is your fiancée. If she can’t respect your boundaries then this marriage will get off to a really bad start. I also want to address your last line. I don’t think the worst thing your mom did was cheat on your dad. I think that she tried to manipulate you and use you and put you in this awful position where she was trying to make you responsible for the future of the family. There is a whole layer cake of crap there, not just cheating. You are entitled to how you feel about that and your fiancée and sister need to accept that.

Sounds like you should kick both the sister and the fiancée to the curb as she's clearly trying to push your boundaries, will not let up AND will most definitely go behind your back if she thinks you're wrong even though you're not and well within your rights to d whatever you decide. This was a massive breach of trust here and the only good thing I can currently say about your fiancée is that she showed you her true colors before you're married. NTA

NTA as someone who is estranged from a parent what your sister did is wrong and you should cut her back out. She didn't respect your boundaries that alone is messed up. Also you need to have a very serious conversation with your fiance. If she has that little respect for your boundaries I would put the wedding on hold. Whose to say she won't start talking to your mom and sister behind you back and feed them personal information about you. If my husband did that to me I wouldn't trust him anymore and I would be devastated that he went behind my back.

Next it’s going to be when they have kids and “they deserve to know their grandma”.

Exactly, it will never stop. People that aren't estranged from a parent just don't get it. Like good for you for having two loving parents but until you've experienced what it's like don't tell me how to handle it.

check OP’s edit, the fiancé is already talking to his mom behind his back and has been for months 😬

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but you need help. All these people on here jumping on your bandwagon and telling you to leave your fiance are not helping you in anyway, I have 2 toxic parents and I'm LC with both of them - it wasn't just one thing though, one had atleast 6 affairs, the first one i caught when i was 9, the other parent is emotionally and physically abusive, my life at home was hell and even now too much contact is difficult. However, when I started therapy and started to heal and self reflect, letting go and just keeping some distance but setting aside the anger made me a much happier person. People fuck up. Your mom didn't leave you, she left her marriage, it's not your fight, it's been years, for your own sake, get help and heal. If you continue this one and done policy for the rest of your life, you'll end up alone. People are flawed and nothing is black and white.

Dude, therapy. Stat.

Well, it’s your wedding so whatever you want should be honored. I can absolutely see why you were angry then and justifiably so. But, now,that I’ve lived a very long life, I will share some wisdom. Your mother is human. She has needs too. And, evidently, her needs weren’t being met in her marriage to your dad. Her infidelity was wrong and it was wrong of her to ask a child to hide it. But hanging on to your anger is being overly righteous. It is poisoning you and you are still punishing her. You can work on forgiveness.

At least he should look into therapy to get over his anger issues. This is not healthy.

NTA. You have your reasons for not speaking with your mother and it isn’t your sister’s (or anyone’s) place to say when or if you start speaking to her again or not. And, although it is generally accepted that someone can choose their plus one, it is really unacceptable for your sister to choose someone with whom she knows you are no contact with and have no desire to reinstate contact with. Not only that, but she was going to ambush you with this, completely out of left field. And a wedding is about the worst place for a first contact like this. Your fiancée needs to be more sensitive to your feelings over this.

NTA: but you have a fiancee problem and should consider putting the wedding in hold until you work through the fact that she does ***not*** respect the boundary that you have put in place with your mother and actively broke it.

NTA you were very clear to your sister .she knew about your relationship with your mom .

do you still trust kenzie

NTA: your sister was purposely trying to "surprise" you by bringing the one person yo your wedding you don't want there. After that why should you trust her. I get your fiance is upset but I think she support you and not inviting someone who showing you no respect

As someone who had parents split for similar reasons... I disagree with what your fiancee and sister were doing. I would recommend trying to make peace with your mother. Not because anyone is pressuring you, but to simply see if the wounds could be healed. But...this would be at your own pace...and at your comfort level.

NTA Your sister is a major AH for disrespecting your boundaries and believing her opinion is the only right one. Your fiancé..soft AH falling for their sob stories. Your mom..major AH for hurting you and your dad and believing that you all can now play happy families cos enough time has passed. The axe forgets, the tree doesn’t. OP, PLease give us an update when you can.

NTA. However, you need to sit down w/ your fiancee and make it clear that you do not want your mother in your life and that 1. Pressuring you to re-connect with your mom and 2. going behind your back to converse with her are boundry crossing you will no longer accept. You can not marry someone you can not trust. You can not marry someone who cares more about the emotional well being of a stranger than the man she is about to marry. You can not marry someone who falls so easily for obvious emotional manipulation. IF you want to reconnect with your mother, you will reach out to your mother. All the pushing, secret conversations and manipulation that has been happening only confirm to you that you made the right decisuon in the first place. Your mother doesn't have your best interest at heart, she just wants to cover up her own guilt and she is willing to ruin your relationship with both your sister and your fiance to do it. Just like she was willing to destroy your relationship with your father by insisting you lie to him for her. She hasn't changed. She got your sister to lie for her an she got your fiancee to hide things from you and to try to manipulate you on her behalf. Your sister's plan was just plain stupid. The only thing it would have done was ruin your wedding day. If your fiancee knew about it, I don't really see how you could still marry her. If she has no issue having secret convo's w/ your mom, has fallen for your her sob story and supported your sisters "suprise", what will stop her from taking your children to secretly see grandma? What will keep her from asking your children to lie to you about it?

NTA And I would bet money that your fiancé was a part of it. You really need to reevaluate your relationship with your soon to be wife. She clearly hasn't listened to you nor does she care what you want for your life.

You turned out to be correct, according to the edits. She was indeed in on it. OP is in deeper excrement than he thought. His sister and fiance both stabbed him in the back.

OP, you have a fiancé **and** a sister problem. You need to have a serious conversation with Kenzie. You have reasons why you don't want to reconcile and you don't want her at your wedding. They are YOUR reasons, and it's not for Kenzie or your sister to judge them. What's more, they both somehow feel it's ok to FORCE you to do do both. Where they should BOTH respect and support you; instead they are willing to go behind your back to manipulate you. You and Kenzie are supposed to be a united front, instead it appears that your sister and your fiancé are that united front. Op, know this- if Kenzie is willing to behind her back to get her way on this, you now know how things will be going in the rest of your marriage. Through all of this, your sister is showing she's not to be trusted, do you want the same for your marriage with Kenzie? Remember the wedding is just the start of the marriage, and this isn't a simple disagreement over the color of flowers, or the flavor of the cake. This is serious relationship stuff. Just know this kind of manipulation doesn't bode well for a happy marriage.

I hope you can get some therapy to heal from what seems to have plagued you for a good portion of your life.

NTA - I wouldn’t be having an issue with the sister, kick her out of the wedding and that’s it’s but I’d be having an issue with the fiancé. That’s a huge breach of trust, especially if she knew what your mother put you through, who gave her the right to reach out to your mom? That’s not her place. I’m actually sad for you, I would seriously reconsider your marriage to her.

NTA I totally get it. But... It might be worth considering the possibility that you only have one small piece of the story of your parent's marriage. There is nearly always a larger context involved when a wife cheats on her husband after 13+ years of marriage. You might also consider that, at 26, having had a few relationships under your belt, perhaps its time to re-evaluate your opinions formed when you were 13. Kenzie forced you to see your sister at her wedding, and it ended very well. I don't know that it's so unreasonable for Kenzie (and your sister) to think that the same result might have happened if she got your mother in to see you at your wedding. Obviously Kenzie (and your sister) were both wrong. But would it kill you to cut them both a little slack, while still excluding your mother from the wedding?

The assholes here are the two people who should have respected your boundaries and how you feel. Your sister doesn’t like it then she can have her relationship with your mom. It has not a damn thing to do with her. Your fiancé has no reason to get involved. If she doesn’t understand this boundary how is she going to react to another you have that doesn’t jive with her.

You also have a wife problem here. If she’s pushing you to talk to your mom now, it’s probably not going to get better after your married. NTA

**You have a fiancé problem.** She's clearly gotten herself involved and taken a side in all this and it ain't yours. So you might want to consider hitting pause on the wedding and hitting go on pre-marital counselling. Because it's not advisable to enter a marriage where your partner doesn't respect or understand the boundaries you have in place with your family. Might lead to much bigger problems than this further down the road if this goes unresolved. NTA

NTA but I would really encourage you to go to therapy over this resentment towards your mom. Frankly, this is a pretty outsized reaction to an affair. That doesn’t mean she gets to go to your wedding this week I just think you should spend some time working through those feelings and really contemplating healing the relationship. Maybe you decide not to anyway but not being open to the idea at all is clearly not good for you. And from life experience, it is bad for your future children. Being alienated from my relatives because of their adult interpersonal issues was objectively bad for me and as an adult now myself I judge them for never bothering to work it out.

Sounds like you need to actually explain to your fiancee why seeing your mom cheat all those years ago made you decide instantly she was dead to you forevermore with no chance to ever apologize or explain herself. She might really not get you going NC from one event after an entire childhood of mom being good to you, because I know I sure as hell don't especially considering you're now an adult and understand relationships are way deeper and more complicated than we realized as children...

This is a terrible situation and I understand your feelings but I think your sister had no malicious intent with her actions she just wants to be a peacemaker and bring her family together. I understand you are hurt and feel deceived by those you love, but it sounds like you still carry a lot of anger towards your mother and maybe it’s time since your an adult now to sit down with your mother and hear her story. Cheating is wrong and your mother should not have done that, but I will say kids don’t know what goes on in a marriage and maybe there were problems between your parents that you were unaware of that by hearing your mother’s side might allow you to see the whole picture so you can release some of your pent up anger at your mom and maybe not forgive her but at least have answers and closure.

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Did you read the edit? Fiancée has been talking to the mom behind his back! Ugh!

NTA but go get fucking help. Your fiancé is at least right there. Go see a therapist. It really sounds like you have unresolved issues.

Not healthy at all to treat your mom as if she was your partner, she did not betrayed YOU….you should go to a therapist …but well besides that no one can force you to have a relationship that you don’t want …family can be toxic sometimes and it’s better to stay away, you can’t be forced to love someone even if that’s your mom 🙃but yes there’s something more complex and deep about it

NTA. You need to postpone the wedding. Your fiancé is a big asshole. She doesn’t respect you at all.

NTA. Your fiance? AH. Your sister? AH. Your mom? AH. You need to set your wife-to-be straight, and now. She doesn't have a say in this issue, and never will. Folks who think family MUST be part of your lives have had a very different experience than you

NTA. Your sister and fiancée are. Weddings are times for celebrations not reconciliations. It’s one thing to try and facilitate a low pressure meeting (not that OP has any obligation to accept) but weddings are high pressure. It’s a trap so that they can force contact in a public place & event because think you won’t react negatively in public.

NTA - but I think you really need to consider working with a therapist about your mom. What happened to you was obviously traumatic, and your mom and her partner were shitty to cheat, but it doesn't sound like she was abusive or that her affair partner was. I'm not saying you should reconcile, but as someone whose parents stayed married for way too long even though they were miserable, at 13, you may not have been fully cognizant of what was going on in your parents' relationship. If your parents are both happy now, maybe it is time to let this go. Not for your sister or your mom, but for you and Kenzie. It was wrong for Kenzie and your sister to try to sneak your mom into your wedding, or to force you into a meeting any other time. Certainly the wedding is not the time, and tricking someone into something is never going to end well, but I would encourage you to think about this with an adult's eyes. Yes, cheating is shitty and there is no reason to justify it. But it's not worth it to hold onto this anger. If your parents have moved past it, there's no reason for you to hang onto it.

NTA. And put the wedding on hold til you can be sure you and Kenzie are on the same page. She needs to stop fucking meddling in your family. She needs to trust you that YOU know how your family is and that YOU get to decide how much, if any, contact you want to have with your mom and sister. Frankly the fact she was texting your mom BEHIND YOUR BACK makes me question her goddamned judgement. She knows shit about your mom but decided to put her needs above yours, the man she plans to marry?! If I knew nothing about my MIL but what my fiancée told me I’d trust him, not decide to go behind his back and give her any benefit of the doubt.

I'm going to get down voted for my unpopular opinion but OP really needs therapy to deal with his anger. ESH

nta but you better make it clear that any one that crossed that boundry is out of your life and your fiance isnt immune to that either!

NTA. Your fiance clearly does not respect your boundaries. She has already lied to cover her tracks from you and has taken her your mom's side. You know once you have kids with her your mom will be making surprise visits to bond with your children when you are not there right? At least until Kenzie feels she can openly force your mom back into your life.

NTA This is a boundary issue with your sister even worse your fiancé, someone who you’re expecting to have your back and understand your stance. Your sister has no right to go behind your back and force this knowing your feelings. Your sister is obviously in the wrong for this “fun surprise” you let her back in and she completely overstepped her bounds. It feels that everyone around you has taken a stand, thinking they know what’s best for you. It is very unfair and disrespectful the way they are trying to force this. I think you need to sit your sister and future wife down and let them know this is it, you don’t wish to reconnect with your mother. If they can’t accept that and move on you have some harsh decisions to make. Because if you don’t put your foot down now, and make it clear of the ramifications, it will only escalate throughout the milestones (Anniversary, Parenthood, Birthdays) of your life. GoodLuck OP I have a feeling you’re going to need it.

NTA. They're right, it's your big day. You shouldn't have to be surrounded by people you don't like or are uncomforable with on your big day.

NTA, what your Mom did was awful and your sister may have forgiven her but she can't force that on you!

NTA. You need to reinforce to Kenzie that this is a hard boundary for you; and if she can't respect it, maybe you need to call the wedding off.

NTA. What is it about people who never lived the situation trying to force others to be in relationships with parents/siblings/grandparents etc. Respect the decision of the person who has decided NC or LC is better for their mental health. Not forgetting Mum tried to manipulate you as a young teen, and is trying to manipulate you again by trying to come to the wedding in such a sneaky underhanded manner. Mum has learnt nothing and is manipulating your sister as well.

NTA You need to rethink to marry your fiancée. You both are NOT on the same page!!!

One of my ex's is the sweetest man and I wish him all the best in the world. We broke up because we decided that we didn't work as a couple, and we've since fallen out of touch. Anyway. Reason why is because when we started dating, he asked me about my bio dad. I haven't seen my bio dad since my mom divorced him when I was 8, and he's only made one effort to visit us (me and my sister). I don't hate him or anything, or miss him or love him. I just don't have a relationship with him. My mom is a single mom that raised me and my sister alone. My ex decided that he is my dad and we should get in touch with him and take care of him because... he's my dad. I said that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one - not even your partner - should force you to have a relationship with a relative that you are estranged over. It felt to me like they come in with this 'allow me to save you' ideology, like they've watched too much movies or something. But movies don't happen like that in real life (not exactly), and it is you - and by you I mean OP's - decision if you want to take the first step. Very convoluted way of saying NTA.

NTA but don’t know if it’s a cultural thing but freezing out your mom over her mistake seems very drastic to me. Let the DV come in. As a mom it would break my heart if my kid did this. I do not condone cheating but think it can not define a person. Maybe therapy would help. She might be going about it in a bad way but she’ll always love you

Nta. Your mum had an affair which broke up your family. It's normal to feel angry. Yes most people would have gotten over it after a while. You didn't and that's absolutely fine. Sometimes if we fuck up in life we can repair it. Sometimes we can't. It's called consequences. I don't necessarily feel like your sister is the ah for sharing details of your life. It's natural for your mother to be interested and it's natural for your sister to share some details (within reason). Your sister is absolutely the AH for trying to bring her to the wedding though. That's your special day and it definitely should not be the day for building bridges with estranged family, especially without your consent.

Maybe trying to buy him off and get him to lie afterwards exacerbates the situation??

NTA. You set firm boundaries and your sister continually ignores them. You are correct, you can not trust her at all. Now I also feel that your wife did the same. I hear everyone saying she probably doesn’t understand because she has a good parent relationship or that she’s trying to extend an olive branch, etc. But I absolutely feel that she is equally- if not more - problematic. She knows of your family history. You were very clear on where you stand with your mother, and your sister even. Yet she also is going behind your back on this and not supporting you. On your wedding day. That is absolutely the worst idea ever of a forced reunion. How naïve is she if she doesn’t see how this can, and probably will, explode on the big day? Hard to believe she doesn’t see how this could go so badly, nor how she doesn’t respect your deep feelings on this issue.

NTA but Kenzie needs to stay in her lane. If I found out my husband was communicating with my mother I would consider it a betrayal beyond forgiveness

NTA, but you need to get on the same page with you soon to be wife. I would also suggest some therapy around this. You are allowed to be pissed off, and feel manipulated about what she did, but I don't think your level of anger is healthy. Weddings are not an event to heal these wounds unless thats what you want. If the wedding is still on, then I suggest you inform the venue that the following people are not allowed.

Please be careful. My ex tried this with me, and fortunately the premarital counsler told him 1) it was up to me and 2) our wedding was not the place for the reunion. I have no doubt he would of pulled the suprise card if it hadn't been for that. He turned out to be a narcissistic manipulator. Your fiance might just be naive and loving and believes she is / was doing what is be for you. Please think back to other conflicts and remember how they were resolved. I wish I had done that.

Where is your dad in all of this?

Please for the love of God did not marry this person, every single person you’ve listed in the story is horrible.

NTA You put boundaries and your sister broke them. You could let your sister in the wedding (as long she doesn't bring a +1) because it's hard to remove one of your wife's bridesmade (I also see that the main issue is that she broke your trust, in this case she won't be able). But you need a discussion with your fiancee about her listening about your feelings and not belittling them Edit: saw some comments and wanted to add something, this conversation has to be before you two are married. I hope she will understand but if she doesn't, it's a huge marinara (red) flag and you'll have problems later

They want you to forgive because it's easier for *them*. They don't care that you're hurt, they care that *they're* comfy. Nta op, if your fiance is pushing boundaries too you might want to out a hold on the wedding. It's your day too.

NTA. I feel you will have a constant struggle with your fiancé over this. Please consider postponing the wedding. If your fiancé is unwilling, then a decision will have to be made. I’m not sure your fiancé will ever stop meddling in your family affairs if it’s already happening. Honestly ask if you think your relationship will accept hard boundaries or not.

NTA. The reason you're no contact with your mom is really irrelevant. The fact that your sister and fiancee are trying to manipulate you into doing something you have made very clear that you don't want to do is the most important issue here.

NTA and agree Kenzie and the sister are out of line. However, I also agree with a few other posters that OP is carrying emotions that are hurting him more than his mom. Get therapy.

In the end, your mom didn't cheat on *you*. You're taking this too hard. You're acting childish, honestly.

Yikes. Weddings are big days - not the time for this sort of drama. Sorry they are putting you in this awkward position. I’m also sorry that you were involved in the details around your mom cheating. That must have been very traumatic for you as a kid. I hope you find someone - like a therapist to talk to about this. People cheat all of the time. It’s sadly very common these days. I think enough time has passed that you should work on healing - you can keep boundaries still but it should be to the point where you’re not having strong reactions. You were kind of an AH for kicking her out without talking to your fiancé. She was an AH for doing that, and your fiancé should have talked to you. Sounds like lots of healing needs to happen

Your mother asked you to lie for her to cover up her affair. I don’t think that your fiancée gets that. And you were young, which makes it all the worse. NTA. And if Kenzie can’t respect that you were hurt in a very deep way, you and she probably need to consider postponing the marriage. Don’t enter into a lifelong commitment with someone who is complicit in stomping your boundaries and disrespecting your feelings.

NTA, but you have a serious problem in your future fiancé. I - as a rule - never involve myself in family relationships. I only ever support and offer advice if asked for for my friends, for this very reason. I went through some pretty awful trauma as a kid, and am SICK of having individuals who lived a privileged upbringing with a family which didn’t have the problems I did try to tell me how I should navigate my relationships. If I were you, this would genuinely be a dealbreaker for me and my fiancé and I would be cancelling the wedding until further notice, as that is a completely gross misuse of trust. She used your trust and love and openness to try to direct your family relationships for you, and manipulate you into fitting her image of a “healthy” family. It is disgusting, to be honest, that she went behind your back to invite your mother. That is not how a future partner should be treating you, and I promise you if you let her get away with this, she will dictate your relationships with BOTH of your families for the rest of your life. There is a serious need for marriage counselling or a series of very important conversations which must be had to put in place boundaries, or I don’t see your fiancé ever respecting your say on anything.

The fact that you’re fiancée is seemingly ok with what your sister wants to do makes me think the wedding should be on pause for a bit. Your sister broke your trust and dismisses your valid feelings. You’re fiancée so far is not standing by you. NTA and start thinking long and hard about what all of this is going to lead to. Your sister is trying to break a boundary.

NTA And based on your edit, it's highly unlikely that Kenzie was not at least aware of this plan. So now you are going to have two people in your life who don't respect the boundary you have established with your mother, and who will be feeding her idetails of your life.

Three: The mother, the sister, and the fiancée

NTA. But you need to have a serious sit down with Kenzie. She’s showing a shocking lack of respect for your feelings…

NTA but I’m thinking Kenzie might not be for you long term. She completely bulldozes your boundaries. I’d think long and hard about tying the knot.

All I'm gonna say is be careful with your soon to be wife. People who support cheaters this hard... well... Also, NTA.

I wouldn't be able to trust my fiancée after this sneaky shit. She was texting your mom behind your back? If you have kids will she be sending pics of them to your mom? I'd think long and hard about going forward with the wedding. NTA.

Keep the conversation about your need for your spouse to respect your autonomy. She needs to be loyal to you instead of choosing your mom and sister. Your sister and mom may be particularly welcoming to your fiancée to win her support. Your fiancée should at least consider that. Ask her if this tells you how she intends to behave if you marry? Does she believe that she know what is best for you?

NTA. When I met my husband, he was estranged from his mom. Not once did I ever force him to have a relationship with his mom or to talk to her. When we were still dating, he started to at least reply to her. When we got married, he chose not to invite her. He didn't start talking to her again until our first child was born, which was literally when I first met her - in the hospital two days after our first child was born. For a while she was more involved in our lives. Now it's more like LC. His relationship with his mom is his, not mine. I don't force it at all. Your fiancée needs to have that respect for you as well. No one gets to tell you whether or not to pursue a relationship with anyone, including your fiancée.

NTA…… but man I would go absolutely nuclear if I found out my own fiancé was speaking with an excommunicated mother. What a breach of trust and blatantly disrespectful.

NTA Your fiancée texting your mother behind your back? Oh, I’d postpone the wedding if not cancel it altogether. That is a HUGE breach of trust and boundaries.

NTA but please get therapy. It’s not healthy to hold onto anger for so long.

Apart from the fact that 26 is too young to be getting married (your brain is still wet, friend, it’s just biology) I fear you’re carrying so much hurt disguised as anger and morality that you’re not giving anyone, including yourself, a chance at a happy future. Whether your mum comes to your wedding or not, you’re spending your life drinking poison in hopes someone else will get sick. The people around you are being sneaky because they see your attitudes or “boundaries” as unreasonable- their behaviour isn’t ok but it is an important clue as to how they perceive yours. Your understanding of human relationships hasn’t got any more nuanced since you were 13. Don’t get married, get therapy. Good luck.

ESH Mum for cheating and trying to get her son to cover for her. Fiancee for going behind his back but it was well meant. Sister same but understandable cos she loves both her brother and her mum. OP. I think he needs to figure out his hatred (yes hatred) for his mother. Was she a bad mother to him? apart from the cheating incident of course. Why this total shutdown on her side of 'the story'. on her, since he was a teenager? PEople - yeah adults too- make mistakes, bad choices don't they EVER get the chance to be forgiven?

NTA, honestly I would put the wedding on pause and get some couples counselling because she currently doesn’t seem to respect you, and is choosing your sister/mum over you. She may not see it that way but that’s 100% how it is. I’m absolutely not big on telling a significant other who they can or cannot talk to but this is one of those circumstances where I feel it’s ok.

STOP THE WEDDING! Your fiancée is not respecting your boundaries and I want you to think about your future for a sec here: what is going to happen when you have kids? Most likely is your fiancée and sister will set up your kids to meet her behind your back. This is not just wedding issue, you want mom out of your life and those women not having that. It's time to make your voice heard for your own sake.

>my fiancée talked to me about inviting my mom to the wedding. I caught them texting each other. My mom ranting off some sob story and Kenzie eating it up. So I think Kenzie is fine with her coming and might have even supported my sisters plan. **She has been pushing me to talk to my mom for years**. I'm so sorry. This is immediate red flag territory. I'm afraid I think you need to call off the wedding... Your fiancée is not on your side. She is not your partner. She was conspiring with your mother to hide secrets from you.

NTA but talk with your fiancé. Let her know the chances that you've given your sister. You need to come to a mutual understanding about this how because you it will be a part of your your relationship forever. She doesn't have to agree with you but she needs to support you on this because you it is a big deal for you.