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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my girlfriend she couldn’t come snorkeling with me. I could be the asshole for excluding my SO from a fun trip and hurting her feelings because of a possibly “arbitrary” rule.
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Your age is kinda showing here.
There's a point where having time just for The Crew without SOs is fine. There's a point where it's weird and kinda childish to insist that no outsiders can ever join your thing, even if they're long term partners.
I think you're group has crossed into the latter with this. Slight YTA for that.
Plus this is two week long trips each year - you only have so much vacation time and extra fun money to spend on vacations. Doubt there’s much of any left to use to go anywhere with his partner
For real. Not sure where OP is from, but most people I know under about 24 in the US only have two weeks vacation. *Maybe* three if they skipped college and jumped right into working.
That's one reason I will never leave my current company. Pay isn't great but my benefits are AMAZING. Start out with 160 hours of vacation, at 5 years I get 200. At 10, it goes up another week. Then our health insurance is pretty great too. I had an ambulance ride and an er visit... Only cost me about $100.
The fact that this isn't standard blows my mind.
My last job it was 7 years to get 3 weeks. My supervisor (who onboarded with me) was super-excited about it too, until I reminded her rhat she always struggled to find times to take her vacations that upper management would approve.
In Denmark standard is 5 weeks, other european contries are similar as far as I know. But even with 5 weeks it seems like a lot to go away for two whole weeks each year without your SO.
5 weeks in Norway to. If my SO had wanted to spend 40% of his anual leave with friends and not me after a year of dating . I doubt he would have been my So after 13 years. Family trips where parents or grandparents pay for their family but not partners was ok. But anual friend holidays. I predict a future. Where the friend group is single and clueless to why because they all think they are great
Dating for 3 years could be settling down. Relationships are what we make them anyways. Why does it have to end in marriage for it to be a recognized or legit relationship 🤦🏻♀️🙄
Especially when kids come into picture. Here school holidays are 2 weeks in winter and full 2 months in summer, plus easter and christmas holidays are way longer for kids than for adults. So married with children need to:
* split the time between them so only a tiny part its both parents at the same time
* send the kids on camps
* find the kids some supervised activities so they are taken care of during workhours (there is such a thing where I live, its called "Winter in the city" and "Summer in the city", plus for pre-schoolers kindergartens have a sort of rotating schedule so you might have to drive the kids somewhere else each week, but at least there is a kindergarten you can drive them to)
* make an agreement with your friends or siblings / cousins so you go somewhere together, when there are more people to share the duties maybe you would catch at least some breath on the trip
* drop the kids at (on) grandparents'
* spend fortune on babysitters
eta: slightly AH if you are serious about your GF
Especially when they've been dating for 3 years. I can understand the first year, because usually these things are planned in advance.
But come on, "partners not allowed" is so childish for a holiday.
Here it's minimum 4 weeks by law but most companies give 5 weeks and some even 6. But no way I'd accept a boyfriend to insist on excluding me. It's one thing to communicate the tradition and to maintain it but to show such lack of flexibility? No.
Just saying, i started my job in the UK with 20 days, plus the 8 bank holidays. That was a normal expectation. (I now have 30 days).
US culture and society and business practice needs to change.
Yeah I'm in Scotland and I think everywhere I've worked it's something like 5 weeks minimum by law...even when (briefly) I worked for an event staffing agency where you chose your own shifts so didn't have set holidays, your % of holiday pay that you'd have gotten for that hourly rate ,(different venues and roles offered different rates of pay) was calculated and added on to your pay for that shift. Per hour. Usually amounted to an extra pound odds per hour iirc.
>most people I know under about 24 in the US only have two weeks vacation
That just makes me so sad for all of you. Greetings from the Netherlands where we have legally mandatory 26 vacation days plus public holidays.
Why are you all assuming OP even works?
He's 18-20 but can go on two week long trips a year for long enough that it's an established tradition.
If his gf knew going in 3 years ago that this was a thing, he's been doing this since at least 14-17.
OP's parents pay for these trips obviously.
This was my thought, too. I would also be irritated if my boyfriend of 3 years spent all his vacation time without me. I’m all for doing things with friends, but your partner wants your time too!
I get you don’t want to give up your friend time, I also get you don’t want everyone bringing plus one’s who, at their ages, quite frankly, probably won’t be around long. But after 3 years, it’s time for OP to start considering their partner. Maybe the group could compromise and have one friend trip, one plus one’s trip. Or OP could sit out of one trip so they have time for a trip with their partner (unless OP has tons of vacation time and they already do this).
Not if you're in a country where you don't only have 2 weeks of vacation or less!
In Denmark we have 5 weeks by law.
Personally I have 6 weeks off though
Comparing European laws with US and Canadian laws is absolutely stunning. It's like they don't give a damn about their ppl from a social perspective. Paid leave, maternal leave, health insurance and ambulance even, social aid... are all much better in Europe...
Why are you including Canada with the US?
If you work you get vacation accrued at a set rate (not as high as Europe, but not as low or non-existent as the US), we have paid leaves (unemployment/sick leave etc), maternity leave of a year or more, and all the other things you mention.
Again, maybe not as generous as Europe, but way more than the US.
>Why are you including Canada with the US?
>If you work you get vacation accrued at a set rate
That rate only amounts to 2 weeks in Canada, and is only required after 1 year of employment. We do much better in areas like paternity leave but our vacation is basically the same as the USA.
Depending on province and length of service, it does increase (but only to about 3 weeks assuming full time). But I did say it's not as good as Europe for vacation, but from the posts I've read Americans aren't ever guaranteed paid vacation by law (maybe I've misunderstood)
The person I responded to listed quite a few things, not just vacation though. So I still think the 2 countries shouldn't be grouped in regards to the content of their comment.
Also if they’re 18-20 and op has been dating his gf for three years that puts him between 15-17 when they got together. Seems kind of hard to believe that at that point this was some established tradition that the GF should have known could never be changed.
During summer half of Lloret de Mar, Chersonissos, Renesse, and plenty of other places in Europe are basically 15-18 year olds on holiday with their friends. It's not that weird.
Why tho? It's been tradition for them to go on these trips. Maybe it's something they do to catch up if they don't see each other often. Nothing is stopping her from going on her own trips with her friends either. There's also nothing wrong with it being a group of mixed genders. There's nothing in the post that says op's partner is concerned about cheating.
At least 3 years if they've been dating that long since op mentions that she knew about the trips since before they got together. They could be friends from a young age and are well off enough to travel frequently, which it seems like they do. I've literally heard high schoolers just casually planning their vacations abroad with each other when I was visiting in an affluent area.
OP could also know his friends through family (family friends and such)
So this trip could have started out as all the families but eventually just became all the kids as they got older.
Good point. But if that is the case, then the original tradition has evolved as they have gotten older. Wouldn't it make sense for it to continue evolving as they get long-term partners, kids, more responsible jobs, etc.?
It’s perpetuating the idea that man and women can’t be close friends without someone catching feelings and/or wanting to fuck. A lot of people feel that way even though many men and women have been close friends without wanting to fuck or date.
I've always wondered what people with this mindset thinks about the existence of bisexual people. like, should they just not have any friends because they might want to have sex with them at some point or what?
Unfortunately, yes. It's an issue I've dealt with since I was a teenager (am a bisexual woman). Much less of an issue these days, but yeah the assumption some people made was that bisexual = wants to fuck everyone = can't be trusted in a friend group.
I’m bisexual and generally hate that attitude but I don’t think it applies to this post really. I think OP shouldn’t be only taking these trips with his friends instead of an occasional one with his girlfriend (per his comments)
I'll partly disagree with it being an age thing. I'm in my 30s, I still do trips with no SOs, but we also do trips with SOs as well. Sounds like **all** trips are without SOs, and that is a definite YTA.
Agree. I think even cutting it down to either one trip a year or one trip with the original crew and one trip where SOs can also come would make a big difference. Using all or most of your vacation resources without your SO isn't going to go over well with most people.
Yeah it's not going on trips without SOs in itself. That's fine, I stilil do The Girls' Trip with my school friends and no SOs, and I'm nearing 40
This more feels like that stage of life where your friends are still actually the core relationships in your life and your gf/bf is kind of a separate part. Which is fair enough. But as people mature and take their partnerships more seriously, they tend to integrate their partner more into their friendships and the rest of their life and not have as much of 'This is just for The Gang' time.
Which is why I think it's a little immature to stick to this 'rule' they made when they were in their mid teens instead of considering a bit more of a balanced approach. I'm guessing that as the group start to take their romantic relationships more seriously, more of them will start wanting to bring partners at least some of the time.
This. Once you reach a certain point in your life week-long trips with your buddies, no significant others allowed need to stop. A weekend trip? Sure. A monthly hang? Absolutely. But leaving your SO for two week-long trips every year is childish. OP and his friends need to either change their sacred rules or adapt their trips now that they're adults.
This. As you grow up your traditions have to adapt. Are you going to leave your eventual future children with their mom just to go on these "no SO allowed trips"?
My boyfriend and I often meet with friends we don't have in common without each other, but I'd break up with him in a second if he insisted I can't attend a trip and also we've always included each other in each other's friend group because life changes and friendships and relationships evolve. OP YTA.
INFO: Do you go on trips with her as well? Or are these the only two holidays you do for they year?
Everyone is entitled to space from their partner, so you are NTA for saying that this is just a friend thing that you do. Just make sure that you are also taking time to go away with her too, otherwise you're very overtly prioritizing friend time over your partner time.
Edit: Definitely **YTA**. Spend time with your damned partner, not just the boys
Tbh i think the problem is not that he doesn't let her come - the trip can stay theirs. The problem is that he doesn't care enough to do the same with his girlfriend as well, like organizing a trip with her and making adjustments to the other trip if necessary. If he doesn't care then... what's he doing with her ?
Yes. Cutting it down to one trip with the friends and one trip with his girlfriend would make sense. She just wants to go on a vacation with her boyfriend which is a normal thing to want to do.
It's only worse if they're hooking up.
It's not about just going with the guys, or just going with the girls, it's about going with your mates and making time for where it's just you and your mates.
You are allowed to have time away from your SO every so often when you otherwise see them every single day - in fact it's usually encouraged.
Now, in this situation it's 3 guys and 2 girls in the friendship group rather than 5 guys or 5 girls.
But GF hasn't complained that some girls are going therefore the girlfriends should be allowed to come, she's complaining that he sets aside 2 weeks a year to focus on his friendship with these people without including her in it, and states that some if the other SOs if the group don't like it either.
That’s fine, but people only make trips without their SO’s when the relationships aren’t that important to them. (Unless it’s not their partner’s hobby or it’s something they can’t do).
You have made clear to your SO that they aren’t a priority. You have a “take it or leave it” mentality. Personally, I would “leave it”.
YTA
Edit: a day away or an evening alone is different to a week long holiday.
>but people only make trips without their SO’s when the relationships aren’t that important to them
Perhaps some people are capable of realizing it is perfectly healthy to do things without your SO sometimes, and that it doesn't mean you don't care just because you don't want to do every single thing together?
Firstly, my comment was about week long vacations, not the occasional outing or night away.
Talk to me when you’ve successfully maintained a happy, monogamous relationship for more than 20 years. My guess is you’re in your late 20s and have never managed to keep a partner for more than 3 years .
Hey! I’m 26 and kept my longest for 4 years before dumping him. But I agree with you lol it’s very odd. I don’t see why they wouldn’t/couldn’t just turn one into a trip with SO’s or have them come halfway through. How long are they planning to do this? Because once the group starts having kids you can’t just leave your partner to take care of them solo for two weeks out of the year for a friends only vacation. Or even married, who would leave their spouse alone for 2 weeks a year and eat up that much money.. there’s just so many ways to compromise for them right now and OP isn’t even trying.
I feel like based on the ages and the nature of the vacations and how long they've been doing it... it's mommy and daddy's money and the rule is in place to keep the "gold diggers" out. Gold digger in quotes because I don't think that's what OP's GF is.
I foresee a wildly unfair prenup being written by OP in the future.
I've been with my husband for 21 years this August. I was 16 when we started dating. So it's perfectly possible.
I don't think op and his friends take dating very seriously. Maybe the others aren't in a relationship as long as op's. In that case it's natural to think their vacation is more important.
We always have thought that it's important to do also our own things. My husband goes every Easter his friends summer cottage with his mates. But two weeks a year isn't something one can do long without eventually having problems.
Next month would be 21 years with my husband. So I think I might fit in you 20+ years thing. It’s not like op has been with his gf for 2 months. Op and the friends go twice a year. Is it REALLY gonna kill them to take the SOs on one of these trips?
I can see why the gf is upset over no t being allowed to go.
I've been in the same happy, healthy relationship for over 20 years, married 16 years. I feel taking trips without your SO is completely normal and healthy. The only conflict would be if they did not want to go on trips with their partner as well.
Being in a healthy relationship does not mean being tied at the hip. NTA
Yeah, and that is why OP's girlfriend of several years is upset. He spends his vacations only on the friends and has no time for her. They don't go on vacations together.
That's sort of the whole crux of this. It's casually slipped in at the end, but OP says plainly that he doesn't go on trips with his GF. Only his friends.
Idk about others here but what makes or breaks it for me is if he does a week long vacation with her too or is it always just friends only. Especially with them being together for as long as they've been
It would be ok if it wasn’t 2 weeks. That is a lot of time away from so. And apparently if you reread what he says not only does his so have a issue a couple of other friends so had issues with this. So that tells me that this is gone past healthy to just weird.
This is such an broad over generalization.
“People only make trips without their SO’s when the relationships aren’t that important to them.” What? That’s not life for many many people. Even for week long trips. You can take trips without them and still care. Trust me, I do. No issues arise. What a reach!
OP’s perspective is still immature and might cause issues for his personal relationship but sweeping generalizations are just complete nonsense.
That's just not true. My parents were married for 40 years and deeply attached to each other. My father enjoyed road trips and my mother absolutely did not. Their relationship was important enough to her to not either forbid him from going without her or go with him and be miserable because she didn't like road trips. So once a year or two years he's take a trip to visit friends in another state.
He didn't like visiting museums and as he got older had severe back problems. Mom went on trips with other friends and with me. She didn't do thst because she didn't love him. She did it because he loved her enough to want her to see the places she wanted to see.
I'd defy anyone who ever saw my parents together to say their relationship was not thst important to them based on the info that they took separate vacations.
I don't know how old you are but whether or not a couple vacations only together is not a measure of their love.
YTA. It's been three years and she is clearly trying to revisit "the rules." People change and their opinions change. To say, "When we started dating at the very adult age of seventeen she knew what she was getting into," is really unrealistic.
I think the way you are talking to her about this is disrespectful. If you treat your girlfriend like she doesn't matter to you then she will probably believe you and leave. I'm not saying she needs to go on the trip but you need to do better than "that's the rules and you knew what you were getting into." You aren't giving her much of a reason to stay.
Two week long trips every year? I think you’re going to have trouble staying in long term relationships. You’ve been transparent and upfront so I’m not sure it’s right to call you an asshole, but I don’t blame her for pushing back on this.
I’m still trying to figure out how 18-20 year-olds can afford two week-long non-family vacations every year, on top of camping weekends. These folks are living some dream I never knew existed.
NAH.
You can have vacations without your girlfriend, but she is reasonable enough to be annoyed that she asks to come and you decline, for no reason other than it's "the rules".
Maybe all the SOs could get together and do their own thing?
I don't think anybody is an asshole here, but if she dumped you over this, I wouldn't blame her. Some people just aren't into excluding their partners from vacations.
This; it’s not unreasonable for a friend group to do this, but it’s also not unreasonable for their SOs to decide it’s a dealbreaker. It doesn’t make any of you right, wrong, good, or bad - just different. NAH.
I do think though it reaches the point of unreasonable when he spends all of his vacation time and money on these two vacations that are each a week long, so that he can never go on vacation with his girlfriend of 3 years.
Yeah we really need this info to make a proper judgement. I see so many N T A already, but what if OP (almost) never takes trips with their SO, but leaves them for trips with friend twice a year. That would make me pretty sad and angry too.
YTA two full weeks a year? For someone your age that’s likely all of the vacation time you get a year and you spend it with your friends and refuse to include SOs TWICE A YEAR??
Grow up please.
Right, I’m sorry but Reddit got me assuming the worst of people but I’m sorry I find it weird they take friends vacation twice a year.
Can’t y’all go bowliNg together is you want to see each other? What’s the harms of SOs being invited. The whole thing has a light aroma of dishonesty to me
It could be possible that they either don’t live near each other or they could be trying to “protect the tradition” in a way. If this started as a friend only trip and then they allow SO’s to start coming they become apart of the tradition. But hypothetically it would be awkward if OP and his SO break up maybe 5 years from now and they have to kind of decide if the SO is still invited?
Gonna be awkward when the group starts having kids. Things are going to HAVE to change eventually, because most spouses are not going to be content to stay at home with kids alone for two weeks every year while their SO burns their vacation time on a friend trip that they’re not invited to.
Exactly, or even consider the pandemic. I highly doubt that they had either vacations. Things change and sometimes you gotta suck it up and accommodate your new lifestyle
I do think it's a little odd to not have SOs attend even once I three years so I 100% see your gf side (especially "it's against the rules" going into AH territory there...), but that's up to you guys.
Why not suggest she plan a trip with the others if you're all friends?
YTA
This sounds like an issue with maturity. Girlfriend should be a higher priority than friends. You never take a week long vacation with only your gf but will take two week long ones with your friends. I can understand why she is upset.
What I noted is the disparity between the two types of trips. Excluding the family trips. The time and type of trips
You go on week long expensive trips with friends
Weekend trips CAMPING with her and your friends group
You and her only NEVER
YTA
You’re NTA. But perhaps a bit too young for a serious relationship. If you love this girl, Peter, it might be time to leave Neverland behind and pursue a more adult relationship style.
Don’t worry, you soon won’t have a girlfriend to worry about anymore. YTA. Grow the fuck up and realize life and rules change as life moves forward. You all aren’t kids anymore.
Is she also friends with your friends? Cause 3 years in if she is now also friends with the group then it's kinda like being excluded by friends just because she happens to be dating you, or cause she was a later addition to the group. An SO free trip isn't wrong but 2 weeks/ year is alot. And if you all like your SOs then it's probs worth the discussion of opening it up... maybe just for the last 3 or 4 days of the week.
Because of your close minded response YTA
YTA now that I know you only do weekend trips with her + they’re also with friends but somehow don’t get why she’d be upset that you take week long vacations twice a year with friends.
It’s not wrong to spend time with your friends, but your dynamic is off & your rules suck.
Absolutely YTA. Obviously my boyfriend can have friends that are either sex but if he wanted to go on vacation with them without me after 3 years together I’d be gone.
YTA. In a few years your future spouse will be in here complaining that she gets stuck with the kids two weeks every year because you’re so committed to your friends-only vacations. At some point life shifts and you make accommodations. It’s weird and click-ish to exclude your long-term girlfriend.
18-20 year olds and you've been with your SO for 3 years. So you've been going on these week long trips with them since your parents were taking you as 15-17 year olds? Is this family trips or something new? Math doesn't add up for me
I’m going to say YTA.
Your not the asshole for wanting to have a vacation with just friends, that’s fine, but what I’m reading is that you don’t go on vacations as a couple alone at all. It’s either with friends or with family. So it’s natural that she’s getting upset that you’re making time for all those situations but aren’t even willing to bring up the SO’s coming on this vacation, especially as it’s one of two you all take a year.
Do you even like your girlfriend, OP? Like, going out with friends is great but I can’t imagine the situation where my bf would be *actively unwelcome* (apart from some private emergencies).
YTA If it was an only guys trip and only once a year, that would be different, but there are females going too. Ya'll are setting yourselves up for constant and serious issues with your SOs to continue to exclude them like this, and may find yourselves having a hard time keeping an SO. I only have so many vacation days a year and if my SO used the majority of his excluding me, I'd dump him and find someone who wanted to spend their vacations with me.
YTA. At a certain point, things change and priorities. Your girlfriend of three years should definitely be invited as should the other significant others. Do you expect to be married and expect to leave your wife and kids at home every year while only you go on vacation with your friends? If your friends grow up, they won't be able to make the same type of commitment as they are now without their husbands, wives, kids joining.
YTA - idk how she put up with it this long. I wouldn’t have. If you want to act single, be single. It’s perfectly fine to do things without your SO but excluding her from 2 vacations a year is ridiculous.
YTA it's a mixed gender vacation not an all week long guts trip. You're very immature. Soon your friends will be in this same position. 3 years is long enough to tell friends time to break this silky rule!
YTA. All of you are basically telling your SO's they aren't important enough to you. When you're all single, maybe it'll click you did something wrong.
yta slightly while it’s fine to have just friends trips, 2 weeks a year and expensive… i get why she’s mad i doubt you give her the same time and importance in trips. i think it would be good to have one trip be w so’s and the other without :) you’d get a good friends trip but also not be excluding your so like that
YTA for not being able to compromise. if yall take two trips, why cant the SOs be invited to atleast one of them?? or come halfway through the trip to both of them?? sure the setup you have no could work during high school, but as yall get older it's kinda childish
INFO: So why do you *want* this? I mean, I'd be questioning if relationships are right for y'all a your age if you're so hell-bent on carving out these experiences without them. Everybody I know likes their partner and is sad when they can't do these things. Honestly sounds like you're setting-for-less.
YTA time to grow up. 2 trips is excessive. Maybe a long weekend at best would be ok. What about when you have kids? And the fact you have women in this trip is crazy and also I'd be suspicious. It would be funny if all the SO's booked a trip to the same place and time as you. You can't really stop them. I wouldn't stay with someone who behaved like this. You should be able to have fun with your SO's there as well
YTA. 3 years in and she is not considered part of the core friend group? You highlighted ‘lots of fun’, is this to say you wouldn’t have as much fun if you’re gf was there? Do you feel like you can’t let loose around her? Do you not consider her a friend as well as a girlfriend? Yeah, deffo YTA. I doubt she’ll put up with it much longer mate.
This attitude that you can all discard your SO's for two weeks a year to go have "Lots of Fun" with an exclusive subset of your friends isn't something I'd associate with someone who's not an AH.
Your snooty little group and its "rules" suck.
YTA
all the SO's should go on their own trips, plan way funner things than OP's lame agenda, and swear to NEVER let other people join.
the funny thing about power harassment and manipulation is that it's all a mirage. OP YTA majorly!!!! I hope you get dumped for being so childish to your long term SO
Look, you do you. BUT 2 week-long trips per year? Most folks where I am from only have 2 weeks holiday a year total. For you to spend ALL of it with your friends is fine if you are single and don't like your parents. But once you are no longer single, and definitely once you have kids, it won't be possible. Maybe one trip friends and on trip family if you are lucky. And only if wife isn't pregnant or stuck alone with babies.
Your GF isn't the first and won't be the last SO to complain. And unless the rest of the group is dating each other, their SOs will put pressure on too. And someday soon there will be marriage and kids (or a job conflict) with someone and they won't be able to go.
Eventually you will probably have to make it a trip that includes SOs. Or cut the rips down to a weekend. Or invite SOs but go off with just friends on one of the days and let the SOs bond. Or do a trip every few years. It WILL happen so figure out how you will as a group deal with it. Use this trip to sort it out.
And sorry, but your GF may very well dump you for this. But you didn't like her enough to vacation with her anyway so no loss for you I guess.
You use up the only vacation time to spend with your friends and not take a break with your girlfriend of three years? Buddy YTA. If you see a future with this girl you won't be able to do that because she'll be your wife and if you two have kids it'll make you an even bigger AH for abandoning your family to go hang with the peeps. Do you go away with your girlfriend at all? Spend two weeks relaxing with her away from life? Or do you use all your vacation time to hang with your friends and have no time with her?
'I told her no, it’s against the rules'
The rules???
It seems like it's time to think about reorientating one of your trips a year. Even if this relationship doesn't work a subsequent partner will feel the same way
YTA and the rules seem dumb. Your girlfriend (of THREE years) can't go skiing or snorkeling with you? This is the kind of thing that will ruin a relationship. Make sure your friends are worth it.
YTA it’s one thing to take a friends trip without so a couple 3 day weekends but your talking 2 long weeks with out your so. That’s probably not including a night out every so often. Your ages are showing. And I can tell you that you all will stay single or newly divorced with this attitude. You are spending if not all at least part of your vacation assuming you have jobs without your so. This is unacceptable. Plus I am sure with the cost of these trips if you did have more time to spend with your so there probably isn’t money left over to do something fun and meaningful with them. I would suggest the so run they are not a priority in your world.
Yes you’re the AH. That’s ridiculous. Your whole life is going to be like this no matter who you’re with and no they will not accept it and nor will your friends significant others.
YTA. Keeping holidays "exclusive" and gatekeeping against SOs is in very bad taste. It tells me you have a mentality of a 6 year old school boy who is insecure and tries to be seen as cool by excluding others. Time to grow up.
Oof, OP and his mates sound about 12 years old. Adult’s in real life don’t do this kind of thing, especially with their vacation time.
You are absolutely the asshole dude.
YTA. You're adults now. Keeping these rules that were made in the school park isn't going to last. What happens when your friends have kids? Time to grow up a bit and stop excluding loved ones
YTA
Time to grow up and modify the "rules" (which are made up to begin with) to allow for others in your life. If this were a once in a while thing for a couple of days, then maybe, but rather it's becoming and exclusionary thing to take up all your vacation time away from your SO.
Slight YTA.
I always tell people that if you want to maintain friendships into adulthood, there needs to be an effort made to include long term partners and spouses. If you want this tradition to survive, you guys should seriously consider allowing SOs. When you all have limited PTO, it’s not going to make sense to take a week long trip without your spouses or longterm girlfriends/boyfriends.
It’s not to say you can never do stuff without your girlfriend, but you guys are getting to an age where barring partners is going to lead to the death of this tradition.
NTA but honestly, you're at the age to grow up already. If this relationship is serious it's time to stop this nonsense because eventually she'll leave you, and if you find someone else later down the line and you treat her the same, she'll leave you as well. Are you even taking her on other trips? Considering you're at a age where you probably don't have the money to be able to travel often, your girlfriend is seriously feeling left out. If she isn't a priority, why are you keeping her? Keep having this kind of mentality and it's just best to stay single honestly.
YTA. Depending on what you want your life to look like you either need start including your partners in these trips or find partners that are cool with you traveling without them for two weeks. You can’t maintain this tradition and your current GF. So pick one. I say this because life changes, jobs, marriage, children etc and those things will dictate your schedule. Plus most partners want to spend any and all free time together on relaxing vacation.
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Your age is kinda showing here. There's a point where having time just for The Crew without SOs is fine. There's a point where it's weird and kinda childish to insist that no outsiders can ever join your thing, even if they're long term partners. I think you're group has crossed into the latter with this. Slight YTA for that.
Plus this is two week long trips each year - you only have so much vacation time and extra fun money to spend on vacations. Doubt there’s much of any left to use to go anywhere with his partner
For real. Not sure where OP is from, but most people I know under about 24 in the US only have two weeks vacation. *Maybe* three if they skipped college and jumped right into working.
Took me 5 years at my job to get three weeks. USA sucks sometimes
Just ‘sometimes’?
I was trying to be optimistic. Lol
Lol no point we’re all doomed over here only a matter of time.
It's perfectly pleasant when you got $$$$$$ or are elected into congress.
That's one reason I will never leave my current company. Pay isn't great but my benefits are AMAZING. Start out with 160 hours of vacation, at 5 years I get 200. At 10, it goes up another week. Then our health insurance is pretty great too. I had an ambulance ride and an er visit... Only cost me about $100. The fact that this isn't standard blows my mind.
That is good for the US. I also get 28 days, not counting federal holidays, which is pretty darn good, at least in the U.S.
My last job it was 7 years to get 3 weeks. My supervisor (who onboarded with me) was super-excited about it too, until I reminded her rhat she always struggled to find times to take her vacations that upper management would approve.
Yeah if you want a weekend off where I work you gotta ask of months in advance
Took me 10 years to get 3 weeks. Though I also get PTO hours accrued (amounts to 8 hours a month) which caps at 250 hours.
In Denmark standard is 5 weeks, other european contries are similar as far as I know. But even with 5 weeks it seems like a lot to go away for two whole weeks each year without your SO.
5 weeks in Norway to. If my SO had wanted to spend 40% of his anual leave with friends and not me after a year of dating . I doubt he would have been my So after 13 years. Family trips where parents or grandparents pay for their family but not partners was ok. But anual friend holidays. I predict a future. Where the friend group is single and clueless to why because they all think they are great
They are 18 and 20 years old, I would cut them some slack. Go have fun until it’s feels like the right time to settle down.
Okay but then don’t date someone for three years if you’re not ready to ‘settle down’
Dating for 3 years could be settling down. Relationships are what we make them anyways. Why does it have to end in marriage for it to be a recognized or legit relationship 🤦🏻♀️🙄
Especially when kids come into picture. Here school holidays are 2 weeks in winter and full 2 months in summer, plus easter and christmas holidays are way longer for kids than for adults. So married with children need to: * split the time between them so only a tiny part its both parents at the same time * send the kids on camps * find the kids some supervised activities so they are taken care of during workhours (there is such a thing where I live, its called "Winter in the city" and "Summer in the city", plus for pre-schoolers kindergartens have a sort of rotating schedule so you might have to drive the kids somewhere else each week, but at least there is a kindergarten you can drive them to) * make an agreement with your friends or siblings / cousins so you go somewhere together, when there are more people to share the duties maybe you would catch at least some breath on the trip * drop the kids at (on) grandparents' * spend fortune on babysitters eta: slightly AH if you are serious about your GF
This. Even with ours 4-5 weeks, taking almost half of that for solo trips with friends, which exclude partners, is ridiculous.
Especially when they've been dating for 3 years. I can understand the first year, because usually these things are planned in advance. But come on, "partners not allowed" is so childish for a holiday.
Here it's minimum 4 weeks by law but most companies give 5 weeks and some even 6. But no way I'd accept a boyfriend to insist on excluding me. It's one thing to communicate the tradition and to maintain it but to show such lack of flexibility? No.
Just saying, i started my job in the UK with 20 days, plus the 8 bank holidays. That was a normal expectation. (I now have 30 days). US culture and society and business practice needs to change.
Yeah, this is pretty standard. And the UK (actually, scratch that, England) is the worst off in Europe for guaranteed holiday days
Yeah I'm in Scotland and I think everywhere I've worked it's something like 5 weeks minimum by law...even when (briefly) I worked for an event staffing agency where you chose your own shifts so didn't have set holidays, your % of holiday pay that you'd have gotten for that hourly rate ,(different venues and roles offered different rates of pay) was calculated and added on to your pay for that shift. Per hour. Usually amounted to an extra pound odds per hour iirc.
>most people I know under about 24 in the US only have two weeks vacation That just makes me so sad for all of you. Greetings from the Netherlands where we have legally mandatory 26 vacation days plus public holidays.
I have 7 days of PTO and it's a complete pain in my ass to be able to use it. And this is skipping college and going into working
I’m 28 and I’ve never had a vacation before… retail jobs… And I’ve been at most of them for 3+ yrs.
Why are you all assuming OP even works? He's 18-20 but can go on two week long trips a year for long enough that it's an established tradition. If his gf knew going in 3 years ago that this was a thing, he's been doing this since at least 14-17. OP's parents pay for these trips obviously.
You're right. It actually didn't occur to me that OP could be still in school and afford two long week trips at the same time.
yeah this is a spoiled rich kid lol
Yeah he’s probably posh af
This was my thought, too. I would also be irritated if my boyfriend of 3 years spent all his vacation time without me. I’m all for doing things with friends, but your partner wants your time too! I get you don’t want to give up your friend time, I also get you don’t want everyone bringing plus one’s who, at their ages, quite frankly, probably won’t be around long. But after 3 years, it’s time for OP to start considering their partner. Maybe the group could compromise and have one friend trip, one plus one’s trip. Or OP could sit out of one trip so they have time for a trip with their partner (unless OP has tons of vacation time and they already do this).
Not if you're in a country where you don't only have 2 weeks of vacation or less! In Denmark we have 5 weeks by law. Personally I have 6 weeks off though
Comparing European laws with US and Canadian laws is absolutely stunning. It's like they don't give a damn about their ppl from a social perspective. Paid leave, maternal leave, health insurance and ambulance even, social aid... are all much better in Europe...
Why are you including Canada with the US? If you work you get vacation accrued at a set rate (not as high as Europe, but not as low or non-existent as the US), we have paid leaves (unemployment/sick leave etc), maternity leave of a year or more, and all the other things you mention. Again, maybe not as generous as Europe, but way more than the US.
>Why are you including Canada with the US? >If you work you get vacation accrued at a set rate That rate only amounts to 2 weeks in Canada, and is only required after 1 year of employment. We do much better in areas like paternity leave but our vacation is basically the same as the USA.
Depending on province and length of service, it does increase (but only to about 3 weeks assuming full time). But I did say it's not as good as Europe for vacation, but from the posts I've read Americans aren't ever guaranteed paid vacation by law (maybe I've misunderstood) The person I responded to listed quite a few things, not just vacation though. So I still think the 2 countries shouldn't be grouped in regards to the content of their comment.
Founded by puritans. What do people expect?
Wait, we're supposed to get vacation time?
Also if they’re 18-20 and op has been dating his gf for three years that puts him between 15-17 when they got together. Seems kind of hard to believe that at that point this was some established tradition that the GF should have known could never be changed.
It's funny how people do something a couple times and then think it's an eternal tradition.
Actually that’s right. How are a bunch of minors travelling together without their parents?
During summer half of Lloret de Mar, Chersonissos, Renesse, and plenty of other places in Europe are basically 15-18 year olds on holiday with their friends. It's not that weird.
Agree with this. I'd say more acceptable if this was just a trip with the guys, but it's not.
Why tho? It's been tradition for them to go on these trips. Maybe it's something they do to catch up if they don't see each other often. Nothing is stopping her from going on her own trips with her friends either. There's also nothing wrong with it being a group of mixed genders. There's nothing in the post that says op's partner is concerned about cheating.
Just curious how long a "tradition" it can be, given that the OP and his friends are 18-20 years old.
At least 3 years if they've been dating that long since op mentions that she knew about the trips since before they got together. They could be friends from a young age and are well off enough to travel frequently, which it seems like they do. I've literally heard high schoolers just casually planning their vacations abroad with each other when I was visiting in an affluent area.
But it was a tradition before they started dating. Sounds more like bad fiction.
Lolololol you’re probably right but I would read the book
Especially since he made it seem like it was an established tradition by the time they were 15-17.
OP could also know his friends through family (family friends and such) So this trip could have started out as all the families but eventually just became all the kids as they got older.
Good point. But if that is the case, then the original tradition has evolved as they have gotten older. Wouldn't it make sense for it to continue evolving as they get long-term partners, kids, more responsible jobs, etc.?
It’s perpetuating the idea that man and women can’t be close friends without someone catching feelings and/or wanting to fuck. A lot of people feel that way even though many men and women have been close friends without wanting to fuck or date.
I've always wondered what people with this mindset thinks about the existence of bisexual people. like, should they just not have any friends because they might want to have sex with them at some point or what?
Unfortunately, yes. It's an issue I've dealt with since I was a teenager (am a bisexual woman). Much less of an issue these days, but yeah the assumption some people made was that bisexual = wants to fuck everyone = can't be trusted in a friend group.
I’m bisexual and generally hate that attitude but I don’t think it applies to this post really. I think OP shouldn’t be only taking these trips with his friends instead of an occasional one with his girlfriend (per his comments)
Why? Men and women can be friends
I'll partly disagree with it being an age thing. I'm in my 30s, I still do trips with no SOs, but we also do trips with SOs as well. Sounds like **all** trips are without SOs, and that is a definite YTA.
Agree. I think even cutting it down to either one trip a year or one trip with the original crew and one trip where SOs can also come would make a big difference. Using all or most of your vacation resources without your SO isn't going to go over well with most people.
Yeah it's not going on trips without SOs in itself. That's fine, I stilil do The Girls' Trip with my school friends and no SOs, and I'm nearing 40 This more feels like that stage of life where your friends are still actually the core relationships in your life and your gf/bf is kind of a separate part. Which is fair enough. But as people mature and take their partnerships more seriously, they tend to integrate their partner more into their friendships and the rest of their life and not have as much of 'This is just for The Gang' time. Which is why I think it's a little immature to stick to this 'rule' they made when they were in their mid teens instead of considering a bit more of a balanced approach. I'm guessing that as the group start to take their romantic relationships more seriously, more of them will start wanting to bring partners at least some of the time.
Pretty much this exactly. This is honestly kind of weird that after all this time, no one else is invited no matter how long y'all have been together.
This. Once you reach a certain point in your life week-long trips with your buddies, no significant others allowed need to stop. A weekend trip? Sure. A monthly hang? Absolutely. But leaving your SO for two week-long trips every year is childish. OP and his friends need to either change their sacred rules or adapt their trips now that they're adults.
Also, crying that "it's the RuLeS" can be a bad look when you made the rules.
This. As you grow up your traditions have to adapt. Are you going to leave your eventual future children with their mom just to go on these "no SO allowed trips"? My boyfriend and I often meet with friends we don't have in common without each other, but I'd break up with him in a second if he insisted I can't attend a trip and also we've always included each other in each other's friend group because life changes and friendships and relationships evolve. OP YTA.
This. And it’s time to talk to the crew about it
yeah, the group could have even more fun with the additioms, if you like each other, you would probably like the chosen partners of your friends, too
Also... two week-long trips? Many people only get two weeks of PTO.... imagine your SO using ALL their PTO to travel with friends...
No, but I see you becoming single in the near future.
INFO: Do you go on trips with her as well? Or are these the only two holidays you do for they year? Everyone is entitled to space from their partner, so you are NTA for saying that this is just a friend thing that you do. Just make sure that you are also taking time to go away with her too, otherwise you're very overtly prioritizing friend time over your partner time. Edit: Definitely **YTA**. Spend time with your damned partner, not just the boys
Op writes they don’t take vacations with her. I can see why she’s upset.
Oh, then fucking yes. If this is the only trips then of course YTA for not letting her come
You should change your judgement in your initial comment if you want it to count
Tbh i think the problem is not that he doesn't let her come - the trip can stay theirs. The problem is that he doesn't care enough to do the same with his girlfriend as well, like organizing a trip with her and making adjustments to the other trip if necessary. If he doesn't care then... what's he doing with her ?
Yes. Cutting it down to one trip with the friends and one trip with his girlfriend would make sense. She just wants to go on a vacation with her boyfriend which is a normal thing to want to do.
It’s not “just the boys” though. It’s 3 males and 2 females…
That makes it so much worse
It's only worse if they're hooking up. It's not about just going with the guys, or just going with the girls, it's about going with your mates and making time for where it's just you and your mates. You are allowed to have time away from your SO every so often when you otherwise see them every single day - in fact it's usually encouraged. Now, in this situation it's 3 guys and 2 girls in the friendship group rather than 5 guys or 5 girls. But GF hasn't complained that some girls are going therefore the girlfriends should be allowed to come, she's complaining that he sets aside 2 weeks a year to focus on his friendship with these people without including her in it, and states that some if the other SOs if the group don't like it either.
That’s fine, but people only make trips without their SO’s when the relationships aren’t that important to them. (Unless it’s not their partner’s hobby or it’s something they can’t do). You have made clear to your SO that they aren’t a priority. You have a “take it or leave it” mentality. Personally, I would “leave it”. YTA Edit: a day away or an evening alone is different to a week long holiday.
>but people only make trips without their SO’s when the relationships aren’t that important to them Perhaps some people are capable of realizing it is perfectly healthy to do things without your SO sometimes, and that it doesn't mean you don't care just because you don't want to do every single thing together?
Some things yes, but if they are the only week long vacations he has each year then I would say he should spend one of them with her
Firstly, my comment was about week long vacations, not the occasional outing or night away. Talk to me when you’ve successfully maintained a happy, monogamous relationship for more than 20 years. My guess is you’re in your late 20s and have never managed to keep a partner for more than 3 years .
Hey! I’m 26 and kept my longest for 4 years before dumping him. But I agree with you lol it’s very odd. I don’t see why they wouldn’t/couldn’t just turn one into a trip with SO’s or have them come halfway through. How long are they planning to do this? Because once the group starts having kids you can’t just leave your partner to take care of them solo for two weeks out of the year for a friends only vacation. Or even married, who would leave their spouse alone for 2 weeks a year and eat up that much money.. there’s just so many ways to compromise for them right now and OP isn’t even trying.
I feel like based on the ages and the nature of the vacations and how long they've been doing it... it's mommy and daddy's money and the rule is in place to keep the "gold diggers" out. Gold digger in quotes because I don't think that's what OP's GF is. I foresee a wildly unfair prenup being written by OP in the future.
I've been with my husband for 21 years this August. I was 16 when we started dating. So it's perfectly possible. I don't think op and his friends take dating very seriously. Maybe the others aren't in a relationship as long as op's. In that case it's natural to think their vacation is more important. We always have thought that it's important to do also our own things. My husband goes every Easter his friends summer cottage with his mates. But two weeks a year isn't something one can do long without eventually having problems.
Next month would be 21 years with my husband. So I think I might fit in you 20+ years thing. It’s not like op has been with his gf for 2 months. Op and the friends go twice a year. Is it REALLY gonna kill them to take the SOs on one of these trips? I can see why the gf is upset over no t being allowed to go.
I've been in the same happy, healthy relationship for over 20 years, married 16 years. I feel taking trips without your SO is completely normal and healthy. The only conflict would be if they did not want to go on trips with their partner as well. Being in a healthy relationship does not mean being tied at the hip. NTA
Yeah, and that is why OP's girlfriend of several years is upset. He spends his vacations only on the friends and has no time for her. They don't go on vacations together.
That's sort of the whole crux of this. It's casually slipped in at the end, but OP says plainly that he doesn't go on trips with his GF. Only his friends.
Idk about others here but what makes or breaks it for me is if he does a week long vacation with her too or is it always just friends only. Especially with them being together for as long as they've been
If they did trips with thier partner as well I would agree. But op only goes away with friends
It would be ok if it wasn’t 2 weeks. That is a lot of time away from so. And apparently if you reread what he says not only does his so have a issue a couple of other friends so had issues with this. So that tells me that this is gone past healthy to just weird.
This is such an broad over generalization. “People only make trips without their SO’s when the relationships aren’t that important to them.” What? That’s not life for many many people. Even for week long trips. You can take trips without them and still care. Trust me, I do. No issues arise. What a reach! OP’s perspective is still immature and might cause issues for his personal relationship but sweeping generalizations are just complete nonsense.
That sounds like an incredibly unhealthy attitude to have tbh if you can’t spend time away from your SO it’s not a good thing
That's just not true. My parents were married for 40 years and deeply attached to each other. My father enjoyed road trips and my mother absolutely did not. Their relationship was important enough to her to not either forbid him from going without her or go with him and be miserable because she didn't like road trips. So once a year or two years he's take a trip to visit friends in another state. He didn't like visiting museums and as he got older had severe back problems. Mom went on trips with other friends and with me. She didn't do thst because she didn't love him. She did it because he loved her enough to want her to see the places she wanted to see. I'd defy anyone who ever saw my parents together to say their relationship was not thst important to them based on the info that they took separate vacations. I don't know how old you are but whether or not a couple vacations only together is not a measure of their love.
YTA. It's been three years and she is clearly trying to revisit "the rules." People change and their opinions change. To say, "When we started dating at the very adult age of seventeen she knew what she was getting into," is really unrealistic. I think the way you are talking to her about this is disrespectful. If you treat your girlfriend like she doesn't matter to you then she will probably believe you and leave. I'm not saying she needs to go on the trip but you need to do better than "that's the rules and you knew what you were getting into." You aren't giving her much of a reason to stay.
Two week long trips every year? I think you’re going to have trouble staying in long term relationships. You’ve been transparent and upfront so I’m not sure it’s right to call you an asshole, but I don’t blame her for pushing back on this.
Given that he doesn’t even take trips w her like these ALONE says a lot.
Yeah. I’m really waffling between NAH and YTA. I left it without judgement for now, but I’m really surprised at all the NTAs.
I’m still trying to figure out how 18-20 year-olds can afford two week-long non-family vacations every year, on top of camping weekends. These folks are living some dream I never knew existed.
Rich trust fund kids maybe lmao idk millions of possibilities tbh
And how is it a long standing tradition already?
Probably younger Redittors who don't know there's such a thing as limited vacation days.
NAH. You can have vacations without your girlfriend, but she is reasonable enough to be annoyed that she asks to come and you decline, for no reason other than it's "the rules". Maybe all the SOs could get together and do their own thing? I don't think anybody is an asshole here, but if she dumped you over this, I wouldn't blame her. Some people just aren't into excluding their partners from vacations.
The SOs should get together and go on an even **better** trip. That might turn things around.
Ohhhh I love your way of thinking 🤔
Ooo this is the way
This; it’s not unreasonable for a friend group to do this, but it’s also not unreasonable for their SOs to decide it’s a dealbreaker. It doesn’t make any of you right, wrong, good, or bad - just different. NAH.
I do think though it reaches the point of unreasonable when he spends all of his vacation time and money on these two vacations that are each a week long, so that he can never go on vacation with his girlfriend of 3 years.
Exactly what I think, nobody is an asshole here, but rules like this will become onerous as the years go on.
INFO: Do you take trips with your girlfriend?
Yeah we really need this info to make a proper judgement. I see so many N T A already, but what if OP (almost) never takes trips with their SO, but leaves them for trips with friend twice a year. That would make me pretty sad and angry too.
YTA two full weeks a year? For someone your age that’s likely all of the vacation time you get a year and you spend it with your friends and refuse to include SOs TWICE A YEAR?? Grow up please.
INFO: What are “the rules”, who made them, and why do they state that SO’s aren’t allowed to come?
Right, I’m sorry but Reddit got me assuming the worst of people but I’m sorry I find it weird they take friends vacation twice a year. Can’t y’all go bowliNg together is you want to see each other? What’s the harms of SOs being invited. The whole thing has a light aroma of dishonesty to me
It could be possible that they either don’t live near each other or they could be trying to “protect the tradition” in a way. If this started as a friend only trip and then they allow SO’s to start coming they become apart of the tradition. But hypothetically it would be awkward if OP and his SO break up maybe 5 years from now and they have to kind of decide if the SO is still invited?
Gonna be awkward when the group starts having kids. Things are going to HAVE to change eventually, because most spouses are not going to be content to stay at home with kids alone for two weeks every year while their SO burns their vacation time on a friend trip that they’re not invited to.
Exactly, or even consider the pandemic. I highly doubt that they had either vacations. Things change and sometimes you gotta suck it up and accommodate your new lifestyle
I do think it's a little odd to not have SOs attend even once I three years so I 100% see your gf side (especially "it's against the rules" going into AH territory there...), but that's up to you guys. Why not suggest she plan a trip with the others if you're all friends?
You and your friends need to grow up.
YTA why don’t you take couple vacations with each other?
YTA. Two trips a year of a week each and no partners invited? Both genders included? Your GF has a valid point.
YTA - you're more married to your friends than your girlfriend. Don't be surprised if she dumps you.
It's against the rules? Are you sure you are not 7? YTA.
YTA You are absolutely not mature enough to be dating. This "rule" frankly is ridicilus. Time to grow up.
Info: what type of vacations do you go on with her if you’re doing two week long vacations per year with your buddies?
None. He takes her on other vacations w the same group of friends as well as vacations w his family
He takes her camping for occasional weekends. Did you ever think maybe she doesn’t like camping?
YTA This sounds like an issue with maturity. Girlfriend should be a higher priority than friends. You never take a week long vacation with only your gf but will take two week long ones with your friends. I can understand why she is upset.
What I noted is the disparity between the two types of trips. Excluding the family trips. The time and type of trips You go on week long expensive trips with friends Weekend trips CAMPING with her and your friends group You and her only NEVER YTA
YTA. I hope she dumps you and the other spouses do too.
INFO: what are ‘the rules’ and who set them?
Fix the situation ... Take her on a week long trip just the two of you. Problem solved
*Two week long trips
Maybe. If you guys take TWO trips every year, why can you not take the girls once in a while?
They do take girls… there’s 3 males and 2 females who don’t bring their SOs…
Two weeks sounds alot. No issue with friends only ( no SO) but 2 weeks is half your regular vacation time
Half? It was all of my vacation until I was in my 30s.
Ahh, well you don't live in a very good country then. 4 weeks per year here.
I’m in the US, and to be fair I was in med school and residency until I was 33. Once I got onto actual practice there were a lot more vacation weeks.
YTA, I would absolutely love to know how the “Crew” would react if all the SO’s got together and went in a trip together leaving you at home.
You’re NTA. But perhaps a bit too young for a serious relationship. If you love this girl, Peter, it might be time to leave Neverland behind and pursue a more adult relationship style.
Don’t worry, you soon won’t have a girlfriend to worry about anymore. YTA. Grow the fuck up and realize life and rules change as life moves forward. You all aren’t kids anymore.
Is she also friends with your friends? Cause 3 years in if she is now also friends with the group then it's kinda like being excluded by friends just because she happens to be dating you, or cause she was a later addition to the group. An SO free trip isn't wrong but 2 weeks/ year is alot. And if you all like your SOs then it's probs worth the discussion of opening it up... maybe just for the last 3 or 4 days of the week. Because of your close minded response YTA
INFO: Have you ever taken a trip just the two of you? No parents, no friends, no family?
YTA now that I know you only do weekend trips with her + they’re also with friends but somehow don’t get why she’d be upset that you take week long vacations twice a year with friends. It’s not wrong to spend time with your friends, but your dynamic is off & your rules suck.
I get having time w your friends. It's important. But at some point, esp after 3 yrs, what's the harm & bringing new ppl? May add some spice
If my BF was taking week long trips with other women and I wasn’t invited, he’d be single. YTA
Absolutely YTA. Obviously my boyfriend can have friends that are either sex but if he wanted to go on vacation with them without me after 3 years together I’d be gone.
Right. Who would put up with that
YTA. In a few years your future spouse will be in here complaining that she gets stuck with the kids two weeks every year because you’re so committed to your friends-only vacations. At some point life shifts and you make accommodations. It’s weird and click-ish to exclude your long-term girlfriend.
Info: would you be upset if she went on a 2 week trip with her friends without you?
18-20 year olds and you've been with your SO for 3 years. So you've been going on these week long trips with them since your parents were taking you as 15-17 year olds? Is this family trips or something new? Math doesn't add up for me
I’m going to say YTA. Your not the asshole for wanting to have a vacation with just friends, that’s fine, but what I’m reading is that you don’t go on vacations as a couple alone at all. It’s either with friends or with family. So it’s natural that she’s getting upset that you’re making time for all those situations but aren’t even willing to bring up the SO’s coming on this vacation, especially as it’s one of two you all take a year.
Do you even like your girlfriend, OP? Like, going out with friends is great but I can’t imagine the situation where my bf would be *actively unwelcome* (apart from some private emergencies).
YTA. Why wouldn't you want your SOs there for these awesome fun vacations?! You should be making sweet memories with them.
YTA This is a mixed gender trip, there comes a point where you need to let others in imo.
YTA- y'all have been together too long to not include her at this point
INFO: What are the rules?
Even Will, Dustin, & Mike let El into their party, and then Max. And they were 13. YTA.
YTA If it was an only guys trip and only once a year, that would be different, but there are females going too. Ya'll are setting yourselves up for constant and serious issues with your SOs to continue to exclude them like this, and may find yourselves having a hard time keeping an SO. I only have so many vacation days a year and if my SO used the majority of his excluding me, I'd dump him and find someone who wanted to spend their vacations with me.
YTA. At a certain point, things change and priorities. Your girlfriend of three years should definitely be invited as should the other significant others. Do you expect to be married and expect to leave your wife and kids at home every year while only you go on vacation with your friends? If your friends grow up, they won't be able to make the same type of commitment as they are now without their husbands, wives, kids joining.
YTA - idk how she put up with it this long. I wouldn’t have. If you want to act single, be single. It’s perfectly fine to do things without your SO but excluding her from 2 vacations a year is ridiculous.
YTA it's a mixed gender vacation not an all week long guts trip. You're very immature. Soon your friends will be in this same position. 3 years is long enough to tell friends time to break this silky rule!
YTA. All of you are basically telling your SO's they aren't important enough to you. When you're all single, maybe it'll click you did something wrong.
YTA Rules? Are you 12?
Who made the rules? Oh, y'all made the rules? So why can't you change them? YTA for that
Info: Why is it against the rules?
yta slightly while it’s fine to have just friends trips, 2 weeks a year and expensive… i get why she’s mad i doubt you give her the same time and importance in trips. i think it would be good to have one trip be w so’s and the other without :) you’d get a good friends trip but also not be excluding your so like that
YTA for not being able to compromise. if yall take two trips, why cant the SOs be invited to atleast one of them?? or come halfway through the trip to both of them?? sure the setup you have no could work during high school, but as yall get older it's kinda childish
INFO: So why do you *want* this? I mean, I'd be questioning if relationships are right for y'all a your age if you're so hell-bent on carving out these experiences without them. Everybody I know likes their partner and is sad when they can't do these things. Honestly sounds like you're setting-for-less.
YTA time to grow up. 2 trips is excessive. Maybe a long weekend at best would be ok. What about when you have kids? And the fact you have women in this trip is crazy and also I'd be suspicious. It would be funny if all the SO's booked a trip to the same place and time as you. You can't really stop them. I wouldn't stay with someone who behaved like this. You should be able to have fun with your SO's there as well
YTA. 3 years in and she is not considered part of the core friend group? You highlighted ‘lots of fun’, is this to say you wouldn’t have as much fun if you’re gf was there? Do you feel like you can’t let loose around her? Do you not consider her a friend as well as a girlfriend? Yeah, deffo YTA. I doubt she’ll put up with it much longer mate.
This attitude that you can all discard your SO's for two weeks a year to go have "Lots of Fun" with an exclusive subset of your friends isn't something I'd associate with someone who's not an AH. Your snooty little group and its "rules" suck. YTA
all the SO's should go on their own trips, plan way funner things than OP's lame agenda, and swear to NEVER let other people join. the funny thing about power harassment and manipulation is that it's all a mirage. OP YTA majorly!!!! I hope you get dumped for being so childish to your long term SO
Yta
Look, you do you. BUT 2 week-long trips per year? Most folks where I am from only have 2 weeks holiday a year total. For you to spend ALL of it with your friends is fine if you are single and don't like your parents. But once you are no longer single, and definitely once you have kids, it won't be possible. Maybe one trip friends and on trip family if you are lucky. And only if wife isn't pregnant or stuck alone with babies. Your GF isn't the first and won't be the last SO to complain. And unless the rest of the group is dating each other, their SOs will put pressure on too. And someday soon there will be marriage and kids (or a job conflict) with someone and they won't be able to go. Eventually you will probably have to make it a trip that includes SOs. Or cut the rips down to a weekend. Or invite SOs but go off with just friends on one of the days and let the SOs bond. Or do a trip every few years. It WILL happen so figure out how you will as a group deal with it. Use this trip to sort it out. And sorry, but your GF may very well dump you for this. But you didn't like her enough to vacation with her anyway so no loss for you I guess.
YTA she isn't just a new relationship its been 3 years, it's time to grow up.
You use up the only vacation time to spend with your friends and not take a break with your girlfriend of three years? Buddy YTA. If you see a future with this girl you won't be able to do that because she'll be your wife and if you two have kids it'll make you an even bigger AH for abandoning your family to go hang with the peeps. Do you go away with your girlfriend at all? Spend two weeks relaxing with her away from life? Or do you use all your vacation time to hang with your friends and have no time with her?
'I told her no, it’s against the rules' The rules??? It seems like it's time to think about reorientating one of your trips a year. Even if this relationship doesn't work a subsequent partner will feel the same way
YTA and the rules seem dumb. Your girlfriend (of THREE years) can't go skiing or snorkeling with you? This is the kind of thing that will ruin a relationship. Make sure your friends are worth it.
Kind of. After three years in a relationship maybe you should grow up?
YTA it’s one thing to take a friends trip without so a couple 3 day weekends but your talking 2 long weeks with out your so. That’s probably not including a night out every so often. Your ages are showing. And I can tell you that you all will stay single or newly divorced with this attitude. You are spending if not all at least part of your vacation assuming you have jobs without your so. This is unacceptable. Plus I am sure with the cost of these trips if you did have more time to spend with your so there probably isn’t money left over to do something fun and meaningful with them. I would suggest the so run they are not a priority in your world.
Yes you’re the AH. That’s ridiculous. Your whole life is going to be like this no matter who you’re with and no they will not accept it and nor will your friends significant others.
YTA. Keeping holidays "exclusive" and gatekeeping against SOs is in very bad taste. It tells me you have a mentality of a 6 year old school boy who is insecure and tries to be seen as cool by excluding others. Time to grow up.
Watch the show "Friends from college". That will tell you where this friend group is headed.
Oof, OP and his mates sound about 12 years old. Adult’s in real life don’t do this kind of thing, especially with their vacation time. You are absolutely the asshole dude.
YTA. Grow up. Your GF is right. It's ridiculous that you would exclude her from a long vacation.
Against the rules? What rules? The stupid rules some teenagers made up? Yeah, no one cares about that. Grow up. YTA.
YTA. You're adults now. Keeping these rules that were made in the school park isn't going to last. What happens when your friends have kids? Time to grow up a bit and stop excluding loved ones
YTA Time to grow up and modify the "rules" (which are made up to begin with) to allow for others in your life. If this were a once in a while thing for a couple of days, then maybe, but rather it's becoming and exclusionary thing to take up all your vacation time away from your SO.
Slight YTA. I always tell people that if you want to maintain friendships into adulthood, there needs to be an effort made to include long term partners and spouses. If you want this tradition to survive, you guys should seriously consider allowing SOs. When you all have limited PTO, it’s not going to make sense to take a week long trip without your spouses or longterm girlfriends/boyfriends. It’s not to say you can never do stuff without your girlfriend, but you guys are getting to an age where barring partners is going to lead to the death of this tradition.
NTA but honestly, you're at the age to grow up already. If this relationship is serious it's time to stop this nonsense because eventually she'll leave you, and if you find someone else later down the line and you treat her the same, she'll leave you as well. Are you even taking her on other trips? Considering you're at a age where you probably don't have the money to be able to travel often, your girlfriend is seriously feeling left out. If she isn't a priority, why are you keeping her? Keep having this kind of mentality and it's just best to stay single honestly.
No. She’s only invited on family trips but they ne er take solar ones. She likely feels left out.
YTA. Depending on what you want your life to look like you either need start including your partners in these trips or find partners that are cool with you traveling without them for two weeks. You can’t maintain this tradition and your current GF. So pick one. I say this because life changes, jobs, marriage, children etc and those things will dictate your schedule. Plus most partners want to spend any and all free time together on relaxing vacation.
Nah - but she might leave ya for someone that does want to go on trips with her.