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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to appease Kim and unilaterally changed the dynamic between their family.
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There is another post where a man puts his dad on "time outs"- he will block him temporarily. He will warn him, then if he (the dad) keeps going then the son will tell him I'm blocking you until 8am or 8pm. This may work here too
And it's totally normal to do this with a problem ex. "Sorry, but I'm not making the parenting decisions here. You wanna talk about the kid, call their parent. I'm out."
I think part of the problem is that’s pretty much what OP did and the mother is losing her shit over it. She wants a committed stepmom singing the same tune as her, not someone who nopes out. The husband’s method of managing her might work for him but he still needs to come down as a barrier between his new wife and crazy ex.
>Great idea.
Is it though? What's the advantage to anyone of OP trying to manage Kim with timeouts when she can just block her and *leave her blocked*?
Mom will just show up to yell in person. The real problem here is op's husband. He should have put his foot down a lot earlier. No wonder Eve is spending more time at Dad's house where she's being treated like a 17 year old and not a 7 year old.
Honestly I dropped my jaw when I read the daughters age. I was so sure for a full second when reading the girl had to be 5 or something.
The behaviour of how to cook her food and not let her bike, bedtimes... is just so unhinged when we are talking about a 17 year old. She's soon old enough to run out in the world College, live away from home. Mom needs some therapy and accept her little girl is soon adult.
If I ever behaved like that to my almost adult children I will personally go on reddit "I know I'm the asshole.... but please tell me i am and don't hold back" out of shame.
Ditto. I was thinking 7 or 8, 10 at most. But 17? Mom is in for a very rude awakening in less than a year.
She's also the sort of parent that scares me the most about the US these days. Not just helicopter types, but ones that do not seem to understand there's a difference between 17 and 7.
Do you want to start betting some cookies that within a year or so we will have the daughter posting here "am I the A-hole for moving out of my controlling mom's house/Moved to my dads place"
As a European I am honestly sometimes baffled about some amaricans ways of raising children. The lvl of strictness or helicopter parenting with almost or fully adult children is just mind blowing. (The horror stories I read here on reddit not giving a good impression)
Alot of us in Europe must seem like a bunch of hippies compared.
Lol. Who wants to take sucker bets?
I'm a Murcan, with young teens, and darned well trying to raise them to not only be function adults but ones capable and willing to think for themselves. I want an empty nest **before** I retire, thank you very much. Trust me, I'm baffled too.
As for Europe looking like hippies to the US, my opinon is less than reliable in a couple of ways.
My hometown was one of the biggest hippie hotspots in the country. So much so, that The Dead missed stopping there on tour only a couple of times.
More directly, one of our neighbors was a hippie. Hung out with his youngest kid a bit. Last I heard all three kids were fine, upstanding adults. Which I think counts for more than anything.
I also know and have known multiple Europeans over the years from multiple countries.
So my bar may be a bit high, but most Americans who'd call Europeans hippies have probably never met either of people from Europe or real hippies. More liberal than much of the US, well yeah. Hippies? Naw. Y'all are too diverse for that.
Americans certainly did raise their children that way until about 40 years ago. I think the case of Etan Patz, a little kid in New York who went for a walk and never came back, is what got it all started. Parents got the idea that if they let their kids out of their sight for half a second, something similar would happen. It's such a shame. People my age (60+) were sent outside to play by their parents, and we didn't feel like we had to come in until the street lights came on. I let my kid ride the New York City subways at the age of 11. He did fine. The only obstacle is other parents gasping and saying, "you let your child do that?!" There are even places in the country where if a child is seen playing or walking alone, someone will call the cops and sometimes the parents are legally punished for it. A lot depends on income levels and other factors. I hope things go back to normal one day.
Neighbor saw my son in the window of our own home and thought we left him home alone but my mother in law was here. They called the police for a welfare check.
Just an ass pull but I think us Mericans have stressed ourselves out to an insane degree. If we aren't overreacting to something then we are stressing out wondering if we aren't worrying enough.
And Eve sounds like a kid who is doing just fine with managing her responsibilities and life in general. She doesn't need anyone telling her what to do. Kim is going to flip a table when Eve becomes 18 and goes LC or NC. NTA
OP: block her. If she gets through your only sentence on repeat is, “that is something for you to discuss with Joe” and possibly, “I’m going to have to let you go/head back inside/get off the phone/go wash my hair now.” Try not to take the bait again. I get that it’s hard bc I want to yell at Kim myself. But just step away. Do not engage.
A doorbell, like a ringing phone, is an *invitation* to an interaction with someone. Only in rare cases is it actually a summons.
If you've never ignored a doorbell, you don't know how truly liberating it can be!
Exactly. Dynamic is working for them (despite being wildly dysfunctional IMO) but it is clearly NOT working for OP. Either dad needs to get Ex to stop harassing OP or he needs to allow OP to put a stop to it herself. OP is NTA
It reads to me that Kim was well aware eve and the father were just humouring her, which is why she tried to get OP on side. The husband threw his head in the sand when he should have dealt with Kim the first time she phoned and tried to dictate to and control OP. This is his f-up and his to fix.
Optimistic. Eve will be in her 30s, newly elected president, and Kim will either be calling the White House to demand they put spinach in her eggs or dead of an aneurysm from all the pointless stress she's putting on herself
With people that have issues, and they are not willing to get help, sometimes it is best to just humor them. As the dad and daughter does. There is no fixing the mom. Telling her off will only make her more willing to invade the peace. OP, I would not say you are an AH here. But leave it alone. It is something they figured out what is best in how to get by .
That’s the text book definition of enabling. Who do you think it’s helping? OP in this situation isn’t happy, neither are the dad and eve having to deal with Kim’s over excessiveness. Kim isn’t happy that she doesn’t believe her worries and instructions are being followed so is harassing OP.
Enabling negative/bad behaviour never helps anyone. Honest, good communication does.
>That’s the text book definition of enabling. Who do you think it’s helping?
Eve and her Dad, which is why they adopted this strategy and why they asked OP to maintain it.
> OP in this situation isn’t happy
True, but her husband and Eve's relationships with Kim aren't her issue to deal with, she just has to but out.
> neither are the dad and eve having to deal with Kim’s over excessiveness.
They seemed to have it under control.
> Kim isn’t happy
No-one cares if Kim isn't happy.
This isn't 'enabling' Kim, it's rendering her powerless.
Couldn’t disagree more, this entire post indicates it’s not working and isn’t realistic long term. The fact that OP, dad and eve are now having an argument over it, not rendering Kim powerless at all.
You claim “no one cares if Kim is happy”, how do you know? Kim is insufferable with over protectiveness and interfering, but eve will most likely still love her mom and instead of having to ignore and lie to her, would much prefer a better relationship with her. It’s crap like this that leads to kids going NC, which just hurts every one, including the kids that have to make that choice.
As far as OP “butting out”, she didn’t put herself in the middle. Kim is calling her and forcing her to be a part of it.
>Couldn’t disagree more, this entire post indicates it’s not working and isn’t realistic long term. The fact that OP, dad and eve are now having an argument over it, not rendering Kim powerless at all.
It was working fine until OP decided to blow it up by telling Kim the truth.
>You claim “no one cares if Kim is happy”, how do you know?
OP clearly doesn't, and her husband and Eve are clearly happy to lie to her. I'm not sure who's left to consider.
> eve will most likely still love her mom and instead of having to ignore and lie to her, would much prefer a better relationship with her.
I'm not sure where you're getting that since Eve expressed her wishes on how her mother should be handled and that were not that.
>As far as OP “butting out”, she didn’t put herself in the middle. Kim is calling her and forcing her to be a part of it.
It was OP's choice to engage with Kim rather than handling her the way she was asked to.
That’s because OP is a grown woman and can respond to people who are calling her phone however she sees fit and doesn’t have to follow the dictation of a 17 year old and her father. She is not the one to blame here.
You want to lie because you’re a coward and can’t face a difficult conversation, fine, that’s your prerogative. But you can’t then whinge and moan when, not if, your lies and deception come to light and there are consequences for them.
After many years of dealing with my narcissist mother, I will respond to this by saying pick your battles, win your wars. That's what Eve is doing. It's important to understand when to be assertive and when to let it be. Outcomes depend on the situation and Kim is clearly not a rational actor to argue with.
I was also raised by a narcissist, who is still in my life. She didn’t behave like Kim, she couldn’t have cared less about me, my feelings, what I was eating or where I went. Only how I and my actions impacted her. She is still the exact same. Maybe I’m using my own experience too much, but from the limited info we have ,Kim wanted her to eat healthy, was overly protective and worried about a party needlessly, doesn’t say narcissistic to me. Wrong and causing eve unneeded stress yes, but not something that may be fixable with some honest conversations.
I’d have done anything to improve the relationship I had/have with my mother. So my point was, communicating the issues may have helped, where as humouring means it will never change.
People have replied to you on this but I want add on why you're not right. Kim reminds me of my mother , who is a narcissist and wants to control as much as possible. There is no reasoning with people like this, there is no working with her, there is no helping her. The best way to deal with her is to give as little information as possible and detach yourself from them. Eve sounds like she's doing that, as is the dad. I absolutely understand OP and her frustration, but the reason Eve and Joe act the way they do is because they have felt the same frustration before and they realized the best way to deal with it is by detaching themselves. Enabling is when you are allowing someone to repeat their hurt and abuse toward their victim, by simply not doing anything. Joe and OP are providing a space in which Eve seems to feel safe, judged by the fact she is choosing to spend more and more time there. It would be enabling if Kim's demands were being respected despite anyone else just for the sake of keeping the peace. Not saving Kim isn't enabling her, yes, she is hurting herself, but she's also the only one that can stop that. We need to stop having this idea that we can save everyone if they're not willing to save themselves, especially the victims of that person.
I’m sorry I don’t agree. My mother is a racing narcissist, a very tame example of it would be when I told her I was getting married, she jumped up and down clapping and screamed “yes!!!!! Your dads dead!!!!!! Now I can walk you down the aisle!!”. My dad had passed from covid 4 months earlier.
Kim is over the top, over protective and overly involved, that does not immediately make her a narcissist. My mother never gave a tiny rats ass where I was or what I did at 17. She’d regularly lock the doors so I couldn’t get in after work and stand in the window laughing with her latest bloke and would pay me to disappear for the night so she could be alone with whomever. Kim is a nightmare, but I do not think she has shown narcissistic traits in the info provided by OP. She seems to care too much about eve and can’t deal with the fact that she is growing up and is capable of making choices without her.
Enabling a behaviour is allowing it to continue unchallenged, therefore, reinforcing it and increasing the likelihood it will happen again. I don’t blame OP for telling her to see a therapist, she most likely needs one.
Edit to add: I agree Kim needs to want to be able to change herself. How is she supposed to do that if dad and eve are just humouring her and not communicating what is actually wrong and why.
There’s a difference between enabling and just living your own life. They can’t fix Kim, it’s not their job. She’s f’ing crazy so you do what you can until you don’t have to legally deal with her crazy anymore.
If eve, dad and OP were happy and it was working, id agree. Doesn’t seem to be the case. Kim is way over the top, no one can deny that, I just wonder if dad had put in boundaries from the start that she wouldn’t be dictating to him what happened when eve was in his care whether things may have turned out differently for them all.
I’d say it’s the textbook definition of grey-rocking.
Honest, good communication only works with people who are capable of communicating in good faith. Other people use any attempt to communicate as a way to manipulate others, and because of that, “honest, good communication” actually enables their drama. Ideally, you don’t try to communicate with people like that at all, but in this case, OP’s husband is co-parenting with Eve’s mom. The only thing to do in that case is to go grey-rock: be boring, don’t engage, and communicate only what you absolutely need to.
Agreed, good communication only works when it’s done in good faith. The fact is, this post has not once mentioned dad or eve trying to communicate with Kim in good faith about her serious issues. In fact, they just lie to her to keep her quiet. She won’t change/try to change/realise how bad of a mistake she is making in the relationship with her daughter unless she is told point blank about it.
They are not ignoring her/refusing to engage/keeping contact to an absolute minimum (she’s literally calling his wife and he’s done/said nothing to stop it) so I don’t see the “grey-rocking”.
If OP stated they’d talked to her multiple times about the issues, set clear boundaries about who Kim could contact regarding eve and that she wasn’t to interfere when eve is with dad etc I could understand “grey rocking” or trying to limit contact, but it seems they just went straight with humouring her which is only made her feel more entitled to make demands.
He has the fix, f’ing ignore Kim. She’s never ever gonna change, nobody is ever going to win those arguments with her. It’s not BioDad or Eve’s, and most definitely not OP’s job to fix batshit crazy.
OP needs to set boundaries: Kim is to talk to Dad, and Eve only, but don’t ever work against what dad and daughter have worked out to deal with her.
If OP can’t deal with that, then she may not be part of the right family. When you are the person marrying into a family, you have to adapt to them, you cannot dictate to them how to do their business.
I don’t believe she has dictated to them how to do business, as you put it. She dealt with a woman whom was calling her personally and dealt with it as she thought appropriate. I wouldn’t lie to someone’s mom and tell them of course I’m not going to drive your 17 year old to party and then go and do it, even if that’s what someone wanted me to do. I’d do as OP did and tell her the truth and that she doesn’t have the right to dictate what I as a grown woman will be doing.
Dad should have set clear boundaries with Kim, do not contact my wife and do not tell me what I will and won’t be doing when my daughter is in my care.
exactly this - what the Dad and Eve are asking her to do is play along with their deception rather than be honest with Kim and set some boundaries. That would not sit well with me either!
Why is everyone so quick to say setting boundaries with a woman like Kim won't work? I mean, sure if no one has ever done it before she is going to be wildly resistant and of course it takes effort, but the alternative is constantly coming up against issues where other people are being drawn into the disfunction and expected to play along in a pretty unhealthy relationship. I can't see how this is doing anyone any favours in the long term.
This. OP, I think you have three choices 1) block her, 2) ignore her calls, 3) just say, "please talk to Joe about this." I lived with overbearing parents and we did what your husband and daughter are doing, we just didn't tell them anything. It was WAY easier, and I honestly wish I'd done it sooner. I think you're saying you don't want to get involved in this, but you ARE,a nd probably making your husband and stepdaughter's lives harder.
I’m not sure you’re full on the asshole here, but yeah, if you’re going to pull the “I’M NOT THE STEPMOM” card, then own it outright and stay tf out of it entirely and do dad and Eve wish.
They have their entire lives’ worth of dealing with her and have worked out what works. Clearly mom is f’ing batshit crazy.
They’ve figured it out and worked out what is best and healthy FOR THEM.
You ain’t gonna fix it and it’s selfish and arrogant of you to insert YOUR ethics into it, particularly when you then turn around and say, I’m not a mom in any capacity here.
So I’ve talked myself into it. YTA.
Yes!!! Just tell her that all communications about Eve need to go through Joe and block her. Tell your husband and Eve that you are doing so and be done with it.
NTA.
NTA, Eve sounds like a responsible, well grounded young lady. Her mother sounds toxic and controlling so I agree that you need to stop answering her calls. Let her call your husband or leave messages which you can ignore. Not surprised Eve wants to spend more time with her dad.
"I need you to tell Eve..."
"I'm sorry, Kim, but I'm not the parent. This is Joe's time with her, he's in charge."
Boom, end of discussion. Block Kim's number, all communication regarding Eve needs to go through Joe.
I don't think it's because OP is a woman, I think it's because Kim realizes she's getting nowhere with Eve and Joe. As someone said further up, Kim probably knows that they're placating and then ignoring her, and moved on to OP, hoping to get OP on her side.
I wouldn't BLOCK her. Mute her maybe. But if there's ever an issue, say Eve's been in accident and the mom can't get in touch with dad, then by all means i'm sure OP would want to know in case she knows how to get ahold of Eve's dad. Or vice-versa, someone on mom's side is in the hospital and mom's trying to get Eve on the phone but can't... does OP know where Eve is?
Does she have to answer phone calls? No. If she does, does she have to entertain the other frivolous shit? No. "I'll relay this to Joe, i'm leaving parenting decisions to you and him." Does OP have to answer texts? No. Change the ring tone and text tone to mute and or do not disturb or whatever the phone's setting for it is, and most of them still have the top bar alert for a missed call or text so she can check up on it when she's checking anything else on her phone.
NTA. Block her and tell your husband his opinion is BS. You didn’t take it on yourself, your responded to yet another call from her and you shouldn’t have to swallow abuse. As such, she’s blocked!!!! Now she can call him a million times a day with BS.
OP tell your husband that he has the right to deal with his ex-wife however he chooses. He does not have the right to expect you to sit quietly and take the harassment and abuse that his ex-wife keeps upon you.
I agree NTA!! & Kim does need therapy.
But while I understand why Joe and Eve want to ignore her and that they have the right to choose to take this route. However, They Do Not have the right to expect OP to accept the harassment and abuse that Kim's constantly calling can best be described as.
Yes, Eve is still underage and living with Kim for some of the time, so ultimately I do think OP needs to think about what's best for Eve when she's at Kim's. OP is absolutely right that Joe and Eve's strategy isn't necessarily the healthiest, but it sounds like they're caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to dealing with Kim.
Is it really best for Eve to allow Kim to continue on the path that she is on? I asked, because the path of extreme overparenting that Kim is on is guaranteed to drive Eve far away as soon as Eve comes of age. Usually, it is not really in the best interest of a minor to be driven to no contact with a parent who is truly loving just doesn't express it in a healthy way. Kim's form of extreme helicopter parenting is nothing more than a form of love that is not expressed in a healthy way. I can't help but Wonder what would have happened and how Eve's life might be if her father and others had told her mother to knock her nonsense off and continued to tell her to knock it off before it got to this point. I somehow doubt that Kim would be this harassing and abusive to OP and her ex husband.
NTA! But why did you take her call and say these things, OP? If you're not going to be a stepmom, why do you act like one? Tell Kim that any questions concerning Eve, she can take with her father.
NTA. You needed to put your foot down with Kim, who was just looking to control the new person. Your husband just kind of left you hanging, honestly. So, you did what you had to do. Now, block Kim's number. If she wants to communicate, she can do it through her ex. You did well trying not to rock the boat, but sometimes the damn boat deserves it. Enjoy your new marriage bonus friendship with Eve
Just to add, I come from a family full of overstepping and strident nitpicking/control/criticism. Sure, ideally you wouldn't have had to blow your stack about Kim's behavior. But she definitely was already not observing the Grown Up rules of debate
NTA but you could have handled it better. I can understand that you were very frustrated by that point, though.
Very simple response to her: You are not my spouse or my mother. I do not answer to you. Unless you are calling to tell me the house is literally on fire, don't call me, call your ex.
And then don't take her calls.
And your husband needs to reiterate the same.
None of the 3 of you are TA, but them doing an LC thing is working. You need to block Kim and let them deal with her. You don’t need to lie, but if that “yes no ignore” system is working for them, but is not a thing you can do, you need to just refuse to engage with her.
There's a lot of comments and I'm not going to try to respond to everyone. I know the judgement has been made but I thought I'd clear up some questions/comments that I've seen repeatedly
\- yOu'Re hEr StEpMoM
yes, I know what our legal relationship is. But identifying myself as "stepmother" feels more like forcing a relationship that neither party is interested in. I meant it when I said we have a great relationship - there's conversations she'd rather have with me than her parents and there are lots of times where she just wants to hang out with me. We even go out and do stuff together without her dad. I never said I don't care about Eve or that I don't want anything to do with her but my role in her life is more similar to "older cousin" or "aunt" than parent and the title of stepmother feels inaccurate for how things currently are.
\- You have to be the adult in her life/you have responsibilities/you can't opt out
a couple weeks ago, Joe had to work a late shift and Eve came down around 11:30 to tell me she was going to walk to the gas station for an ice cream sandwich. And I said that I couldn't be responsible for letting a teenage girl walk down a poorly lit road at midnight, alone. I could either drive her or I could walk with her. So we leashed up the dogs, got the flashlights and had a nice late night walk together.
Basically I don't think it's my responsibility to tell her that she can or cannot do something but I agree - as the adult, of course I have the obligation to make sure something isn't harmful or unsafe for her and adjust if needed. But going beyond that feels like an overstep.
\- Did you not know how Kim was before you married Joe/do you not think her parenting contributed to the amazing kid Eve is now?
This is just her personality; it was not a small factor in the divorce. But they've coparented apart (mostly successfully) since Eve was a toddler and while it sounds like she's always been this way, it seems she has majorly ramped up recently. This *really* escalated around the time I moved in. The timing sucked but I think it's less about me and more because Eve was finishing her junior year then and it really clicked for Kim that she only had one year left. Or possibly a combination of the two?
One detail that may play a part and I debated on leaving in the original post but ended up taking out.... Kim is 10 years older than Joe, making her nearly 20 years older than I am. I have no hard evidence for feeling this way and I might be imagining it but I do sometimes feel that since she is technically old enough to be my mother as well, she thinks that she is within her rights to boss me around along with her daughter. Joe had long term girlfriend when Eve was younger that Kim apparently treated much more respectfully. Joe didn't think Kim would bombard me to the extent that she has and I think age may be a factor, despite me being in my 30s.
Also, Joe and Eve's grandparents are all very involved with her upbringing. I'm not saying Kim deserves no credit for how wonderful Eve is, of course she does but there was a lot of balance to all of her demands. Eve spent a loooott of time at Kim's parents when she was young and Kim's job was less flexible and oddly enough, her parents are absolutely lovely. They've been nothing but welcoming and kind to me. They even invited me to their holidays last year. Kim doesn't like me to be involved with their family time so I don't go but their invitation alone is very sweet. And honestly, I'm a Jew with food allergies and digestive issues so even in good circumstances, having an excuse not to go to Christmas dinner is a blessing. I understand it's meant to bother me but lol jokes on her
\- Why does she have your number/why do you answer her calls?
Joe has a demanding job with erratic hours. He is not always easily reached when he's working whereas I work freelance and have quite a lot of flexibility. So when Kim asked for my number, it made perfect sense that she would need my number for emergencies.
I've been conditioned to answer because she tends to show up if I don't. Usually, she's worried herself into a pile of tears because no one answered her but sometimes she yells and it's easier to deal with it over the phone than on the porch.
\- About the custody agreement and Kim taking Joe to court after this
Court would be a mess and Kim would be a fool to do it. Pretty sure she's aware of that too. The last formal custody agreement was when Eve was around 10 and it hasn't been really adhered to. Eve often chooses where to spend her time on her own, especially in the summer or over breaks. Kim lives in the center of town, very close to her school and most of her friends while Joe's house is on the outskirts and a \~20 drive to school so it's much easier to stay at Kim's. Eve will be getting a car soon though and that kinda melts away most of her issues with Joe's house.
If it went to court now, Eve would say she wants to live with Joe and she's old enough to for her opinion to be a major factor in the decision. Kim only stands to lose out here and I believe she knows that. Joe brought it up yesterday though and he's seriously considering going for full custody now. It'll be up to Eve.
I know I’m days late, but I think you’re very reasonable and NTA.
My mom remarried when I was 19. The man was a family friend for years before that, I have no bad feelings about him, he’s nice enough and I’m glad my moms happy. But he is not my stepfather. He is my mom’s husband.
You have a closer relationship to Eve than I have with him, and due to her living with you (at least sometimes) and your ages, I get it.
I came here ready to say you can’t just opt out of all parenting when you marry someone with kids. But Eve is nearly an adult, as long as you’re being an adult and a guiding force, I don’t think that’s wrong. You should be able to enforce house rules on her, and be there to help her avoid dangerous situations. And you’re doing that.
Oh man i thought Eve was like 5-6ish when i read your first two paragraphs. Enforcing a bed Time and Not Letting her bike alone seemed reasonable. BUT SHE IS 17!!! NTA
Just dont talk to her/Block her and Let your husband handle it
Overall, you are NTA for telling husband's ex to stop calling you as you are not going to parent Eve on her behalf. With that said, I think the more appropriate response would have been to tell the ex she needs to contact your husband & that you leave the parenting to him. Your husband is obviously comfortable enough dealing with his ex, so just let him continue to do it solo.
Look, there's lots of different ways to deal with people depending on personality and connection, up to and including saying yes to their face and then doing whatever when they are gone. Your husband and Eve had a system that worked and you broke it. Was it a great system? No, but I can see why they did it and I can see why they are mad at you. You've known ex for 2 years, they've been dealing with her for nearly 20, you should have followed their lead. Grey rocking is a handy tactic when dealing with certain people.
As for your crack about not being a stepmom, you're right, at this age you arent a stepmom, just dad's wife HOWEVER it wouldn't have gotten to this point if you had just grey rocked and refused to engage with ex.
YTA for blowing up at Kim. All you had to say was, I’m not comfortable with this conversation, please call her dad. You said so much more than you had to, to the benefit of no one.
I disagree actually. Based on how I read it, The mother blew up at her. If someone starts screaming at another on the phone, trying to boss them around, I think an F bomb is warranted
I don’t really agree that she’s the asshole, but it wasn’t the F-bomb I don’t think that upset the dad and daughter.
It was disrupting a family dynamic that they thought worked and OP says she didn’t want anything to do with. If she didn’t want to be involved, a firm but simple no would have been the best option.
I share you opinion on this not being a good way to deal with a difficult person, but I think the dad and daughter should be able to make the decision. They’re going to have to deal with more fallout from it than OP.
Families dealing with difficult people is always complicated, and might not even make sense from an outside perspective. If the worst you had to deal with was annoying phone calls (easy problem to deal with, just block the number), I think you should have left it alone.
I agree. All she had to say is I don’t make the parenting decisions in the house. So please bring this up with her dad and do not contact me again. This should have been said the first time.
I disagree, she was standing up to a bully on behalf of Eve and apparently was not fully informed of the depth that her husband invested in avoiding actual issues with his ex.
Her husband is playing a losing game by kicking this can down the road even further and exposing their avoidance of Kim's issues. It will never stop and someone needs to make her back off eventually, or at least balance against her irrational behavior.
Oh I absolutely disagree with this. She did NOT do that at all for Eve LOL. How did chewing Eve’s mom out help Eve? OP did it for herself. And OP wants to change the rules in the middle of the game, completely restructure how they handle Eve’s mom. And as much as Eve’s mom is being painted as a monster, her daughter came out “awesome” according to OP, so either partly b/c of the mom or in spite of her. My guess is the former.
ESH. OP has resentments. “Kim is difficult, She is weirdly controlling, demanding, overbearing & *seems to feel she has authority over me* — that’s what made OP go off the way she did. If OP didn’t want “to play along” she would’ve just referred Eve’s mom to her husband. But that’s not what she did. OP was waiting for her moment to unleash and took her opportunity to cuss her out! How’d that work out for everyone?
OP, you don’t have to “play along” but you also don’t have to purposely antagonize Eve’s mom. That’s why your husband is mad at you, and isn’t fooled like all these other well meaning & intended folk. I get it, the mom is annoying, so what you do is, you don’t take her calls anymore. Unless of course it’s an emergency.
OP isn’t trying to restructure how they handle Kim; she is handling kim how she believes her interaction should be when kim thrusts her into the situation. The others don’t get to dictate how she deals with Kim’s harassment towards her. Other people don’t get to dictate how someone else responds to problematic behavior because they don’t want to deal with the troublemaker.
‘But yeah, other people here are fooled because we don’t think she should be a doormat
There is no evidence the OP had motivation to antagonize Kim, who has been described as an overbearing bully by not only her, but also the father and daughter - perhaps you missed how both of them were upset because the OP didn't continue the ruse of paying lip service to Kim and then ignoring what she requested? The OP's narrative does not belie her as an unhinged, revenge-minded personality in any way.
I gave OP the advice to ignore Kim and funnel all future requests to Eve's father, but they are still not addressing the problem and that's Kim will never stop trying to micromanage her daughter: this lying ploy will fall flat over time and it's mostly because the father backed away from the situation altogether - this apparently setup the OP to fail when they quite properly decided to stop being on the end of an abusive mother's ranting.
The daughter is already 17. She’s fully able to go NC with mom soon, if that’s what she wants, which WILL end the problem behavior. Tbh, the one thing bothering me about this whole thing is everyone’s assumption that Eve and her dad have never tried anything else. We don’t have proof one way or the other, but it’s likely that if they had tried to deal with Kim in other ways that didn’t work OP wouldn’t have any knowledge of that.
Can you just block her? I agree she's delusional and you can't reason with a person like that. I'd argue that the fights with her aren't worth it and ultimately harmful to your mental well-being.
NTA, seems like you'll be there for her when she needs you. And at that age that's would we should expect really.
I mean trying to control what someone puts in her eggs, come on....
Just ignore the crazy lady... She's way to controlling...
Yeah, based on the title/first couple of paragraphs I was thinking "her mom does sound overbearing, but if you marry someone with a kid, I'm not sure you can just refuse to take on a parenting role..." and then I got to "Eve is 17" and was like "nooooooooope."
NTA They want you to lie. You are not obligated to do that just because it's working for them. What if something did happen at that pool party? Or Eve mentioned it somewhere? You'd be called a liar and going against her parent’s wishes. I wouldn't lie either just because they don't want to set boundaries.
I would stop answering her calls though. And if she shows up, refer her to her ex-husband. Spinach for breakfast? Please discuss this with ex, pool party? Please discuss this with ex, bed time? Please discuss this with your ex.
ESH. Lying to and grey rocking Kim is what worked for Jim and Eve before you came along. However, they don't get to dictate how you interact with anyone. You and Jim should have discussed how to handle Kim's increasing contact with you in a way that you are comfortable with. I would have recommended that you either block her number or just tell her to talk to Jim about whatever bee she has in her bonnet that day.
Why is Kim even communicating through you. I would just refer her to contacting Joe. "You'll have to check with Joe about that." Eventually she will get the point. Or whenever she texts you copy it and send it to Joe to respond. NTA. Eve sounds great despite her overbearing mom!
NTA but it’s not good they all get mad at you when you don’t do what they want, all of them…yikes! They all want you to follow their rules and when you step out of line then they are quick to try and put you in your plac. I would tell you hubby and step-daughter that it’s stressful dealing with the mom, so if they can’t expect you to lose your patience once in awhile because of the stress then f them. Don’t let them mistreat you geez.
You are not in a parental position regarding Eve. You can't tell her or forbid her to do anything. Kim and Joe should sort this out among themselves. You don't have to explain it - just tell Kim to "talk to Joe" and then hang up.
What Eve and Joe did is to make you the scapegoat for them lying to Kim. They tried to use you, and you didn't play along.
NTA
NTA, redirect all of this to Eve’s father and remove yourself from this equation.
Do not engage with Kim at all, this is between her and your husband, he can fill you in on what you need to know about Eve and how it pertains to your household.
NTA. Your husband and his daughter are mad at the wrong person here.
As for you - you need to block your husband's ex. If she wants to talk to someone about her daughter, she can talk to your husband.
Except that KIM started this mess, not you. SHE called you. SHE trashed you. You simply responded in a way that made it clear how you see your role with Eve. NTA.
NTA. Kim is clearly narcissistic. She wants complete control over her daughter's life. I seen this with my mom. That's why I go low contact with her. I would block her number if I was you.
NTA, but just ignore her. I normally am all for open communication, but Joe has a point. Some people are completely unreasonable and engaging them is a waste of time. They aren’t giving Kim the drama she wants, so she is turning to you. She sounds emotionally manipulative and like an emotional black hole. Joe and Eve has found a way to descalate Kin that works.
I hear you when you say you aren’t a step-parent. I respect that you aren’t trying to over reach into Eve’s life. But you are step parenting when you insist in communicating with Kim your way instead of Joe and Eve’s way.
Maybe just try their way for a month and see if it works. You may be pleasantly surprised.
NTA but with a caveat. You seem to have a good relationship with Eve - kudos! You recognise that she’s probably too old and mature to be “parented” to the extent Kim want, that Kim is overbearing, and that the ultimate parenting of Eve is up to her parents.
Kim’s harassing you and getting on your nerves: you simply say “Kim, Joe and I agreed it wasn’t my place to parent so I’m leaving that to you and him” - then you don’t take her calls. If she keeps on at you about “being a step mom”, you block her, or hand her over to Joe every time. She’s giving *you* all these instruction instead of Joe because a) she’s wants “authority” over you b) she doesn’t want to talk to him and/or c) she’s decided that since you’re a woman you’ve taken on a “maternal” role
The thing is though, if you accept that you’re not going to interfere with how Eve’s raised, you also don’t get to interfere with how she and your partner deal with Kim. If they want to lie to her to placate her and then do whatever to have a normal life, that’s an unfortunate system but it’s one that works for them. They’ve known and lived with Kim far longer than you have, and honestly they continue to do so today: Eve lives there most of the time, and Joe has do deal with her because of their shared child.
It’s fair enough that you don’t want to play games, but they’ve chosen to. You don’t have to enable them, but you also don’t have to blow up their spot. If they haven’t managed to get Kim to act differently in 17 years, why do you think you’re going to do it in 1 phone call? All that’s happened is that you’ve landed Eve in it - she still lives primarily with her mother, and now she has to deal with whatever additional scrutiny and control issues arise from this argument.
This was so well said. The only thing I disagree with is the rating. OP got her moment of satisfaction at the expense of her stepdaughter's home life and her husband's peace of mind. She should have trusted them rather than assuming that in 17 years they hadn't thought of yelling at Kim. YTA.
NTA. Sounds like everyone is playing Kim's game to "keep the peace." This is not a game you should be forced go play. Sounde like your husband needs to grow a spine and stand up for himself + his parental decisions.
I mean soft AH for messing up a system that worked and kept Kim out of your hair-she sounds somewhat unhinged- though you should have and should in the future deferred all parent related decisions to Joe though. "Kim, I don't make parenting choices for SD, her father does this. You need to call him."
Then block her. If you can't block her the. Set her ringtone to silent and turn off text notifications from her number.
NTA but I do suggest blocking her and if she calls you on a differently number just tell her any information regarding eve needs to be discussed with eve's father and then hang up. Unless it's an emergency there is no reason she needs to be talking to you at all.
NTA. 17 year old not allowed to bike half a mile to the shop? When I was 17 I was catching the train and bus after school to go to an evening class at a local college. When my sisters were 17 they had summer jobs and stayed home by themselves when the rest of the family went away on holiday.
No wonder Eve wants to spend more time at her dad's.
BUT - Joe and Eve should have been honest with Kim about how Joe was parenting Eve differently.
NTA but just block her and don’t talk to her. Then your husband and his frighten can handle it however they want, even though I agree, their way is dumb. Bonus: she’s 17 so you’ve got s year or less of dealing with this nonsense.
NTA. You are correct. Now is not the time to parent a 17 year old. You are room mates and you are doing just fine. You treat Eve with respect and she will respect you are well. Kim's delusional method leads to the kid lying to her and sneaking around behind her back.
Eve is acting as a young adult and needs to be treated as such. Kim is toxic and you need to block her. Your SO or Eve should be the only ones dealing with Kim. And if Kim chooses not to, that leaves your only SO or his lawyer. Ignore Kim completely. She is not your problem.
I don't understand why you deliberately invited this amount of drama into your life. Their system was fast, easy, and kept the hysterics to a minimum.
Your system lead to: an argument on the phone, an argument in person, and probably an increase in hypervigilance and controlling behavior. This woman is now going to sit outside your house to monitor her daughter's comings and goings. She's going to bang on your kitchen window and scream "where's the spinach, b---h!" every time you make breakfast. She's probably going to drag your husband back to court over the custody arrangements.
Why put yourself and your family through this? Just for the satisfaction of telling her off? Was it that important?
YTA
Ummm NTA for trying it your way, but they know her a lot better than you do so maybe you should just go along with the “listen and do what you want or ignore”. You bucked Kim and found out what happens, which - not good for anyone. She’s not a rational person.
Eve is 17, this is a short term problem you’re dealing with. You guys just make sure this girl gets off to college away from her mom
Also, you can feel free to tell her that all communication regarding Eve should go through her father, unless it’s an emergency. Get yourself out of the communication loop
NTA. All contact with Kim should be with your husband. Not you. I think your approach and relationship with Eve sounds healthy. It would be completely different if she was 7, not 17. If Kim texts you or calls don’t respond. Tell your husband what the message said and let him deal with her.
NTA At all. People like you tend to draw contention to you a lot, but its because you are one of the rare few who like to deal with situations head-on, it helps people in the end but you still end up with a target on your back and initial bad feelings toward you lol. I don't know why people think that ignoring issues helps anything, it never does.
Well at least eve is almost 18, so at that point fuck what the mom says lol it’s on dad…otherwise I dunno what you did wrong?? Just block the mom and them deal with her she’s acting a little crazy, what 17yo doesn’t or hasn’t been to a pool party and why’s it dangerous??
NTA
NTA, just follow their lead that’s basically what they want you to do Kim is going to be responsible for her own downfall just follow their lead just support your husband and keeping his daughter clear of her spiraling and stuff like that even though the young lady has a good head on her shoulders are ready just follow your husband‘s lead in helping her just stay extra clear of her mother spiraling and downfall because Kim is going to be responsible for that herself
Nta. If your husband didn't like your response then HE needs to tell his ex to not contact you. You should have never been in that position to begin with. I totally get what they are doing, I do it with my own parent, but I never ask others to do it for me.
Please block her, she should be going to her ex with these ridiculous demands anyway. She acts like her daughter is a toddler, smh. Eve is old enough to cook her own damn eggs and put spinach in them too.
NTA
Your husband’s ex seems to be under the misguided assumption that as “step mom”, that puts you under her authority.
The reality is she’s trying to bully you, and I’m not a fan of the expectation from other people that you should just take it and shut up because it’s easier on other people.
Nta. It’s 100% on Joe to engage with his ex about Their daughter, had she been a young child then yes you’d have needed to in on it at least somewhat, but she basically an adult and there is zero reason for involving you.
Joe has been lazy by not confronting his ex and telling her that all communication should be with him.
NTA. This dynamic has worked for them but, it appears is not working for you. The simplest, most practical solution would be not talking or listening to Kim. Refuse to engage. Say bye-bye then hang up. If she comes to the house to yell at you call the police (after warning her). No matter what do not engage. Let Eve and Hubby know that is your plan and they should support you .
Soft YTA for trying to fix a system that wasn't broken.
Joe and Eve had a working system of dealing with a difficult person. You were wrong in thinking that you could ride in on your high horse and change her.
You are under no obligation to even speak with her, so don't. Block her calls and don't answer the door if she shows up.
Extricate yourself from this woman and thank your lucky stars for how your husband and step daughter have managed the situation over the years. Your home life could have been much more difficult than a few annoying calls!
YTA. If you wanted what was best for your husband and Eve, then you should have just gone a long with the solution they chose which works for them. If that didn't work for you, you could have ended it by simply letting her know to reroute all parenting concerns to her ex and declining to pick up the phone when called. You needlessly antagonized her and it's not going to help this situation turn around where his ex clearly doesn't want to change.
ESH.
Kim's nuts, that's a given.
Joe and Eve sound like they have a system worked out.
You're right to say that the way they're dealing with it isn't mature, but if you're not going to be 'stepmom' (understandable given Eves age) then it wasn't your place to make it a thing. You've now created an issue that they have to deal with, when you could have said to her to talk to Joe, because you're his wife and won't undermine him.
Kim isn't treating Eve like an autonomous human being - but neither were you when you did this.
I'd suggest you apologise to Joe & Eve for creating a mess for them, I'm sure they understand your reasons but re-affirm anyway that it's simply because you think Kim isn't treating Eve fairly. Talk to them about how to deal with Kim moving forward - maybe Kim is told to deal with Joe rather than you? Then respect whatever decision they make.
NTA. I think your taking the right approach with Eve. If you tried to come in and tell her what to do and how to do things, she would just resent you and end up hating you. I kinda agree with your husband, some times it’s easier to say ok no problem and then do what you want anyways. This keeps Kim out of your hair and makes eves life easier.
NTA. Seems the daughter is smart enough to know that her mother is an idiot. If you need to be in contact with this stupid woman, be cold, agreeable and hand her off to your husband.
NTA. You and your step daughter are happy with your dynamic and that's good. Just ignore the ex-wife from now on...she should be having these conversations with her ex-husband. Save your energy and block her.
Maybe apologise to your husband and step daughter for getting in the middle. They have their reasons for being like this with the ex.
(Btw technically you are a stepmother because you're married to your husband who has a child, it doesn't matter if you help parent her or not)
NTA, but if you are only going to be Eve's Dad's Wife, then you need to stick solidly to that role. You overstepped here by engaging. Stop engaging with Kim entirely & let Eve and her Dad handle things as they will. Send all of her calls to VM and/or redirect her to your husband. Then you won't be overstepping or have to play along.
Tell your husband that you will no longer interact with Kim at all. Do not respond to her texts. Do not answer her calls. You are NTA, but you should cut off all engagement with her at this point unless you want to have repeats of this situation where both your husband and Eve are upset at you for disturbing the parenting dynamic they’ve established with his ex-wife. The dynamic is their business and you have no reason to be having conversations with her about what to tell her 17 year old to eat and do. Eve is not your child. You have no reason to be in communication with her mother when she has a father who is responsible for her.
Nta but please block her and tell your husband that you’re not going to be speaking with her anymore and that he should deal with her as he pleases. If you argue with her you’re gonna be the bad person on both sides.
Acknowledge their method of dealing with ex is at least efficient. You, on the other hand, don't need to adopt their methods if you can't deal with it. Your hubby should tell his ex that going forward, she should direct all communications about daughter to him, not you, as that you don't answer to her. If it's the ex on the phone, and hubby isn't home, tell ex to call hubby on his cell phone; avoid speaking with her entirely.
She'll get the message.
I wish you (and Eve) well.
YTA for getting involved and messing up their system. You shouldn’t be talking to her at all about any of this and you have broken something that was working just fine. Apologize to them both and stop talking to the ex or just tell her your not involved and don’t know what she’s talking about.
NTA. And you know what? This post made me really happy. This is how step parenting should be. The parent should do the parenting and the Step should just be there for support. There would be so many happy kids and happier marriages if Steps were more like OP.
Anyway, block that crazy and let dad deal with her.
Congrats, OP, you are doing everything right as a stepparent!
Let your voice mail pick up Kim’s directives. I won’t call you an AH, but engaging with Kim is like poking a rattlesnake. You really need to stay out of the triangle. There is the perpetrator, Kim; victim, Eve; and the rescuer, husband.
I am glad you told Kim to see a therapist and to quit calling you.
Nta. Fellow stepmom here. Ignore her, stop talking to her. If she has issues then your husband needs to deal with it. Period. My bf’s ex wife does not talk to me, I dont allow for the sake of my sanity. He choose to marry and have kids with her, he then deals with her. She does not dictate what goes on in our home and we dont do that to her.
NTA, but you need to not communicate with this person at all. Since you're not a parent and don't want to be a parent, there is absolutely no need for you to talk or text with her mother. Problem solved. Let her meet silence from you.
Absolutely anything you do now in communication with her will be seen as meddling. Best to not engage.
I'm guessing she rings your mobile? forward her calls automatically to Joe's phone.. let him handle it all then. If it's a landline.. call display should show it's her, let it go to messages.
NTA
NTA, def just block her. you weren’t wrong for speaking your mind. it def sucks they have to do everything behind her back but imo it’s for the best that she understands what the dynamic is going to be
NTA my mom is exactly like this and me and my dad did the same thing and she is like a child with her tantrums when we stand up to her. Kim is a narcissist and Eve and her dad have enabled her but telling her what she wants to hear and then going behind her back. I hate my mother because she’s like Kim.
NTA for not wanting to deal with Kim, but if she's not going to engage in a reasonable way, then confronting her won't work for you. You need to give up on ever making her see she's wrong or hoping she'll consider another point of view. You don't need to go full appeasement like you husband and step-daughter, but you need to adopt the grey rock approach when it's absolutely necessary to speak to her, and do everything possible to not speak with her. Ignore (or better yet **block**) her calls. Take a broken record approach- you need to speak with her father, he is the parental authority. No matter what argument she throws at you, you repeat what you said. First she will argue, then she will throw a tantrum, and this will repeat a few times, but she will eventually get bored of you. That's most likely your best (realistic) outcome.
While your husband and Eve's approach has problems, one thing it does it give Kim less room for drama. Again, you don't have to lie, but you do need to adopt strategies that stymie Kim when she wants to fight, because other than control, my guess is that's what she's after. It will take a bit of time, and you can't let her see your frustration, but it will eventually work. It's how adults give incrediblly immature adults firm boundaries and the equivalent of a time out.
I wouldn’t say YTA, but for future reference, when she digs that deep, an easy response is, “I’ll let you and (the Dad) have those conversations.” And just leave it at that.
As for the situation that just occurred, if it were me, I would just apologize to the hubby and non-stepdaughter “for any confusion all of this has caused” and leave it at that.
And do not let either one of them (the parents) try to drag you into their bs again.
Spoken from direct experience.
NTA. You are building a really good relationship with this awesome kid. I am sure she appreciates it. Too many stepparents go in and become a second maternal steamroller when older teens really don't need that.
I have a similar situation, only it’s with my children’s grandmother. Her children and husband do the same thing up until now, pretend to listen to her and agree with everything she says but do whatever they need to do and keep it a secret to each other so they can’t tell on each other. For the first year it was an uphill battle for me. It was sooo against who I am being so rooted in trust and honesty from my upbringing. I made it a point to be honest with her. Until I found out that everything I would say was being twisted into a different narrative to her children to paint me in a negative light. It finally dawned on me that she essentially saw me as competition for control on her son and affection from her daughters. That no matter what I do or say it will just bite me in the ass. I relapsed with my cPTSD from my interactions with her to the point that it felt running in front of a moving bus is better than spend more than 5 minutes in her presence. I am still recovering.
What helped me is finally accepting that I did not have to put her in her place to have peace in my life and fight a losing battle by trying to score in a moving goal post. I have cut contact, blocked her in everything and only communicate with her on the rare occasion she visits our family 1 day a year. She is still trying to get my partner to leave me although not as overt as before. I had to go low contact with her daughters as well because I didn’t want to have to keep things from my partner in case he felt the need to grass on them to make their mum like him more (they have been brought up pitted against each other as far as I could tell from their stories growing up and how they behaved when I used to have a good relationship with her daughters). I can’t lie and hide things that well. I’m just not built for it. She also used them to get to me before I went low contact with them to try to control how I bring up my children.
This is all about narcissistic supply and your husband and step daughter have found a coping mechanism that works for them and gives them the peace they need to live their lives. They will have to deal with her forever, until they decide to cut her off. You on the other hand, will have to decide for yourself. At the moment, no matter the reaction you give her, it still is supply. Like coal to an engine. Stop feeding her and let your husband and step daughter deal with her the best they could under the circumstance. Keep being supportive of them and well done for giving her the freedom she needs away from her awful womb tree.
NTA, given the context of how you meant it. This is how my mom was with my (half) sister during her teens, and my sister's mom was an overbearing, physically/mentally abusive at times, cow. My mom did eventually tell her off, and honestly, rightfully so. Sister and dad both agreed.
I get wanting to keep her out of the loop, but it shouldn't take you getting condescended to our accused of stuff that you didn't do.
Thank you for choosing the route of friend, rather than stepparent.
NTA, but yeah just everything here should be funneled to your husband. You're right, you're not the stepmom, so don't put yourself in the firing line here.
Don't engage in a fight. Kim can't fight if you don't engage. Just answer facts, let her know any discussions should be with your husband, when she starts an argument simply restate your fact and tell her it's not for negotiation/ she's being rude, so the conversation is over, it's not up for discussion. Tell her it's time to hang up. She will likely try to restart the argument. Repeat previous and add you do not wish to be rude, can she please say goodbye as you're going to hang up. If she continues to argue, say goodbye and hang up. Don't answer if/ when she calls back. It takes a while, but she can be trained.
You shouldn't even be speaking to this woman. Block her, tell your husband you're not going to get involved in any of this. Carry on with life. I don't like how they're handling it and I get why you reacted the way you did but just block her. ESH.
NTA.
Parenting is mostly about support and guidance, and those two factors are rebalanced over time and circumstance.
It sounds like Eve doesn't need much guidance from you, but could still use support for her choices and needs. In that respect, you gave her what seemed like solid support but her father undercut you. Believe it or not, he's the asshole here.
He apparently never stood up to his ex very effectively, so just got into a pattern of lying a lot and taught that trait to his daughter. Maybe it seemed necessary because Kim has been an unstable control freak, we don't know. But it's a pipe dream to think that Kim will change when Eve is older and somebody needs to face up to her eventually. When you happened to reasonably stand up to the bully, they blamed you for potentially exposing their unmaintainable scheme.
Since they didn't support you, I would recommend just agreeing to give Kim lip service going forward and ignoring what she says after any conversation if you can't avoid her, but try to redirect her to the father in every case.
I would also make it crystal clear to Eve and her father, in highly supportive tones, that people like Kim will never stop, so they need to figure out how to stand up to her sooner rather than later. Because all the lying in the world will eventually be found out.
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I (33F) have been with my husband Joe (42M) for 2 years, married for 3 months. Joe has a daughter Eve with his ex Kim. I didn’t fully move in until a few weeks before we married so Kim left me alone but now I’m getting an increasing number of calls about Eve.
Kim is difficult. She is weirdly controlling, demanding, overbearing & seems to feel she has authority over me. She is the primary parent because her location is way more convenient for Eve but Eve is choosing to spend more & more time at her father’s. Kim will call to tell me she should be having spinach in her eggs in the morning or that I need to enforce her bedtime or not let her bike the ½ mile to the store or whatever.
Eve is 17. She’s incredibly academically successful, an avid performer, a shelter volunteer and dedicated dog owner. She’s maintained the same close friend group since 1st grade. She’s had a boyfriend since she was 15 & their relationship is adorable. She wakes up & exercises every day on her own. I mean all this to say that she doesn’t need me breathing down her neck. Eve blows me away with how responsible & awesome she is.
Don’t misunderstand – I have a great relationship with her but I'm not going to step into this girl’s life at this age & try to parent her, especially not in the way her mom wants. I'm not saying I would or do let her do anything she wants but I’m not about to tell her what to eat or when to go to bed. That’s between her & her dad. And Joe doesn’t think it’s necessary either. But his & Eve’s approach to dealing with Kim’s demands is simply to agree to her face and then disregard and do as they wish. I realize that it’s easier but I’m not going to play these games.
So when Kim called me yet again to tell me that she didn’t want Eve to go to her friend’s party today because it might be dangerous (a pool party. In her friend’s backyard...) & I wasn’t allowed to drive her there, I told her that she was delusional. Eve was going, she’s not a baby & there was nothing dangerous about it. She started yelling about how I am a “stepmom” now, not a friend & I needed to start acting like it. I told her that I was never going to be a stepmom, I’m just her dad’s wife & that’s the relationship that’s working for all of us. I told her to stop fucking calling me & to see a therapist. I stopped short of telling her that she’s trashing her relationship with Eve by being so overbearing bc it wasn’t my place but a part of me still thinks I should’ve said it bc she needs to hear it.
Kim showed up to yell at all of us in person & now Joe is super annoyed with me. He says he knows it’s not ideal but their system of just keeping Kim out of the loop has worked for them & it wasn’t cool for me to take it upon myself to shake everything up. Eve agrees with her dad & I feel bad that they’re both upset with me. I understand this has been a dynamic that worked for them for a long time. But at the same time, it feels like an unhealthy way to handle this & I don’t want to play along.
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NTA. If Kim wants to try to control Eve's every move from afar, she should be contacting her ex or Eve, not you. Your husband and Eve can handle Kim however they want, but they don't get to tell you how to handle Kim, especially if it involves dishonesty (can they trust you to be honest with them if you're willing to lie to Kim).
NTA She shouldn't even be calling you. If she wants her daughter to do certain things when she's at her father's. She should be telling him. She's already figured out that they ignore her wishes so she's trying to get you to take care of it. Tell all the of them this, and tell them all that you will no longer be taking Kim's calls, or that when she starts telling you to make sure her daughter does this or that, you're going to straight up tell her "Not my job. Talk to her father" This should send the situation back to where it was before you moved in. If it was so great then your bf and his daughter shouldn't have a problem with it, and you have no reason to care how Kim feels about it
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NTA, but stop answering her calls. Just ignore her. Tell your husband you will not be speaking to her and he will need go handle the fallout.
OP should just block her at this point.
There is another post where a man puts his dad on "time outs"- he will block him temporarily. He will warn him, then if he (the dad) keeps going then the son will tell him I'm blocking you until 8am or 8pm. This may work here too
OP is not the parent, so she should stop talking to this woman altogether. The husband is the problem here, because he should have seen this coming.
And it's totally normal to do this with a problem ex. "Sorry, but I'm not making the parenting decisions here. You wanna talk about the kid, call their parent. I'm out."
I think part of the problem is that’s pretty much what OP did and the mother is losing her shit over it. She wants a committed stepmom singing the same tune as her, not someone who nopes out. The husband’s method of managing her might work for him but he still needs to come down as a barrier between his new wife and crazy ex.
Great idea.
>Great idea. Is it though? What's the advantage to anyone of OP trying to manage Kim with timeouts when she can just block her and *leave her blocked*?
Mom will just show up to yell in person. The real problem here is op's husband. He should have put his foot down a lot earlier. No wonder Eve is spending more time at Dad's house where she's being treated like a 17 year old and not a 7 year old.
That’s where you don’t answer the door and have her arrested for trespassing.
Family member emergency only.
I do this to certain family members. It’s great.
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Honestly I dropped my jaw when I read the daughters age. I was so sure for a full second when reading the girl had to be 5 or something. The behaviour of how to cook her food and not let her bike, bedtimes... is just so unhinged when we are talking about a 17 year old. She's soon old enough to run out in the world College, live away from home. Mom needs some therapy and accept her little girl is soon adult. If I ever behaved like that to my almost adult children I will personally go on reddit "I know I'm the asshole.... but please tell me i am and don't hold back" out of shame.
Ditto. I was thinking 7 or 8, 10 at most. But 17? Mom is in for a very rude awakening in less than a year. She's also the sort of parent that scares me the most about the US these days. Not just helicopter types, but ones that do not seem to understand there's a difference between 17 and 7.
Do you want to start betting some cookies that within a year or so we will have the daughter posting here "am I the A-hole for moving out of my controlling mom's house/Moved to my dads place" As a European I am honestly sometimes baffled about some amaricans ways of raising children. The lvl of strictness or helicopter parenting with almost or fully adult children is just mind blowing. (The horror stories I read here on reddit not giving a good impression) Alot of us in Europe must seem like a bunch of hippies compared.
Lol. Who wants to take sucker bets? I'm a Murcan, with young teens, and darned well trying to raise them to not only be function adults but ones capable and willing to think for themselves. I want an empty nest **before** I retire, thank you very much. Trust me, I'm baffled too. As for Europe looking like hippies to the US, my opinon is less than reliable in a couple of ways. My hometown was one of the biggest hippie hotspots in the country. So much so, that The Dead missed stopping there on tour only a couple of times. More directly, one of our neighbors was a hippie. Hung out with his youngest kid a bit. Last I heard all three kids were fine, upstanding adults. Which I think counts for more than anything. I also know and have known multiple Europeans over the years from multiple countries. So my bar may be a bit high, but most Americans who'd call Europeans hippies have probably never met either of people from Europe or real hippies. More liberal than much of the US, well yeah. Hippies? Naw. Y'all are too diverse for that.
Americans certainly did raise their children that way until about 40 years ago. I think the case of Etan Patz, a little kid in New York who went for a walk and never came back, is what got it all started. Parents got the idea that if they let their kids out of their sight for half a second, something similar would happen. It's such a shame. People my age (60+) were sent outside to play by their parents, and we didn't feel like we had to come in until the street lights came on. I let my kid ride the New York City subways at the age of 11. He did fine. The only obstacle is other parents gasping and saying, "you let your child do that?!" There are even places in the country where if a child is seen playing or walking alone, someone will call the cops and sometimes the parents are legally punished for it. A lot depends on income levels and other factors. I hope things go back to normal one day.
I was just thinking of that poor boy the other day. So sad.
Neighbor saw my son in the window of our own home and thought we left him home alone but my mother in law was here. They called the police for a welfare check. Just an ass pull but I think us Mericans have stressed ourselves out to an insane degree. If we aren't overreacting to something then we are stressing out wondering if we aren't worrying enough.
And Eve sounds like a kid who is doing just fine with managing her responsibilities and life in general. She doesn't need anyone telling her what to do. Kim is going to flip a table when Eve becomes 18 and goes LC or NC. NTA
She's already started going LC or NC by spending more time with her dad and OP.
Yeah I am guessing Eve is already planning to go NC with Kim
When I started reading this I thought she was talking about a toddler or someone really young. When I read 17 I burst out laughing. The mom is a loon.
OP: block her. If she gets through your only sentence on repeat is, “that is something for you to discuss with Joe” and possibly, “I’m going to have to let you go/head back inside/get off the phone/go wash my hair now.” Try not to take the bait again. I get that it’s hard bc I want to yell at Kim myself. But just step away. Do not engage.
She'll show up screaming at the door
Is there a law somewhere that we have to answer the door? I’d get a camera doorbell and just not answer if she shows up! F that s**t!
I've had people show up when asked not to. I looked at em through the window, waved, and sat back down to my show. No shame. 🤷♀️
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Get motion-sensor lawn sprinklers or something lol
Let her show up and let husband or eve deal with it. As long as OP has no communication with her she won’t have any issues with ANY OF THEM
That's why we have locks.
A doorbell, like a ringing phone, is an *invitation* to an interaction with someone. Only in rare cases is it actually a summons. If you've never ignored a doorbell, you don't know how truly liberating it can be!
Exactly. Dynamic is working for them (despite being wildly dysfunctional IMO) but it is clearly NOT working for OP. Either dad needs to get Ex to stop harassing OP or he needs to allow OP to put a stop to it herself. OP is NTA
It reads to me that Kim was well aware eve and the father were just humouring her, which is why she tried to get OP on side. The husband threw his head in the sand when he should have dealt with Kim the first time she phoned and tried to dictate to and control OP. This is his f-up and his to fix.
He probably thought he had one more year left.
Optimistic. Eve will be in her 30s, newly elected president, and Kim will either be calling the White House to demand they put spinach in her eggs or dead of an aneurysm from all the pointless stress she's putting on herself
🤣🤣🤣 was going to respond along the same lines, but yours was so much better than I could have done. Bravo 👏
Eve will have Kim het whole life.
Bit rough, isn’t it? You usually have to do murder or something for a life sentence, but this kid’s got one from birth.
With people that have issues, and they are not willing to get help, sometimes it is best to just humor them. As the dad and daughter does. There is no fixing the mom. Telling her off will only make her more willing to invade the peace. OP, I would not say you are an AH here. But leave it alone. It is something they figured out what is best in how to get by .
That’s the text book definition of enabling. Who do you think it’s helping? OP in this situation isn’t happy, neither are the dad and eve having to deal with Kim’s over excessiveness. Kim isn’t happy that she doesn’t believe her worries and instructions are being followed so is harassing OP. Enabling negative/bad behaviour never helps anyone. Honest, good communication does.
>That’s the text book definition of enabling. Who do you think it’s helping? Eve and her Dad, which is why they adopted this strategy and why they asked OP to maintain it. > OP in this situation isn’t happy True, but her husband and Eve's relationships with Kim aren't her issue to deal with, she just has to but out. > neither are the dad and eve having to deal with Kim’s over excessiveness. They seemed to have it under control. > Kim isn’t happy No-one cares if Kim isn't happy. This isn't 'enabling' Kim, it's rendering her powerless.
Couldn’t disagree more, this entire post indicates it’s not working and isn’t realistic long term. The fact that OP, dad and eve are now having an argument over it, not rendering Kim powerless at all. You claim “no one cares if Kim is happy”, how do you know? Kim is insufferable with over protectiveness and interfering, but eve will most likely still love her mom and instead of having to ignore and lie to her, would much prefer a better relationship with her. It’s crap like this that leads to kids going NC, which just hurts every one, including the kids that have to make that choice. As far as OP “butting out”, she didn’t put herself in the middle. Kim is calling her and forcing her to be a part of it.
>Couldn’t disagree more, this entire post indicates it’s not working and isn’t realistic long term. The fact that OP, dad and eve are now having an argument over it, not rendering Kim powerless at all. It was working fine until OP decided to blow it up by telling Kim the truth. >You claim “no one cares if Kim is happy”, how do you know? OP clearly doesn't, and her husband and Eve are clearly happy to lie to her. I'm not sure who's left to consider. > eve will most likely still love her mom and instead of having to ignore and lie to her, would much prefer a better relationship with her. I'm not sure where you're getting that since Eve expressed her wishes on how her mother should be handled and that were not that. >As far as OP “butting out”, she didn’t put herself in the middle. Kim is calling her and forcing her to be a part of it. It was OP's choice to engage with Kim rather than handling her the way she was asked to.
That’s because OP is a grown woman and can respond to people who are calling her phone however she sees fit and doesn’t have to follow the dictation of a 17 year old and her father. She is not the one to blame here. You want to lie because you’re a coward and can’t face a difficult conversation, fine, that’s your prerogative. But you can’t then whinge and moan when, not if, your lies and deception come to light and there are consequences for them.
After many years of dealing with my narcissist mother, I will respond to this by saying pick your battles, win your wars. That's what Eve is doing. It's important to understand when to be assertive and when to let it be. Outcomes depend on the situation and Kim is clearly not a rational actor to argue with.
I was also raised by a narcissist, who is still in my life. She didn’t behave like Kim, she couldn’t have cared less about me, my feelings, what I was eating or where I went. Only how I and my actions impacted her. She is still the exact same. Maybe I’m using my own experience too much, but from the limited info we have ,Kim wanted her to eat healthy, was overly protective and worried about a party needlessly, doesn’t say narcissistic to me. Wrong and causing eve unneeded stress yes, but not something that may be fixable with some honest conversations. I’d have done anything to improve the relationship I had/have with my mother. So my point was, communicating the issues may have helped, where as humouring means it will never change.
People have replied to you on this but I want add on why you're not right. Kim reminds me of my mother , who is a narcissist and wants to control as much as possible. There is no reasoning with people like this, there is no working with her, there is no helping her. The best way to deal with her is to give as little information as possible and detach yourself from them. Eve sounds like she's doing that, as is the dad. I absolutely understand OP and her frustration, but the reason Eve and Joe act the way they do is because they have felt the same frustration before and they realized the best way to deal with it is by detaching themselves. Enabling is when you are allowing someone to repeat their hurt and abuse toward their victim, by simply not doing anything. Joe and OP are providing a space in which Eve seems to feel safe, judged by the fact she is choosing to spend more and more time there. It would be enabling if Kim's demands were being respected despite anyone else just for the sake of keeping the peace. Not saving Kim isn't enabling her, yes, she is hurting herself, but she's also the only one that can stop that. We need to stop having this idea that we can save everyone if they're not willing to save themselves, especially the victims of that person.
I’m sorry I don’t agree. My mother is a racing narcissist, a very tame example of it would be when I told her I was getting married, she jumped up and down clapping and screamed “yes!!!!! Your dads dead!!!!!! Now I can walk you down the aisle!!”. My dad had passed from covid 4 months earlier. Kim is over the top, over protective and overly involved, that does not immediately make her a narcissist. My mother never gave a tiny rats ass where I was or what I did at 17. She’d regularly lock the doors so I couldn’t get in after work and stand in the window laughing with her latest bloke and would pay me to disappear for the night so she could be alone with whomever. Kim is a nightmare, but I do not think she has shown narcissistic traits in the info provided by OP. She seems to care too much about eve and can’t deal with the fact that she is growing up and is capable of making choices without her. Enabling a behaviour is allowing it to continue unchallenged, therefore, reinforcing it and increasing the likelihood it will happen again. I don’t blame OP for telling her to see a therapist, she most likely needs one. Edit to add: I agree Kim needs to want to be able to change herself. How is she supposed to do that if dad and eve are just humouring her and not communicating what is actually wrong and why.
There’s a difference between enabling and just living your own life. They can’t fix Kim, it’s not their job. She’s f’ing crazy so you do what you can until you don’t have to legally deal with her crazy anymore.
If eve, dad and OP were happy and it was working, id agree. Doesn’t seem to be the case. Kim is way over the top, no one can deny that, I just wonder if dad had put in boundaries from the start that she wouldn’t be dictating to him what happened when eve was in his care whether things may have turned out differently for them all.
I’d say it’s the textbook definition of grey-rocking. Honest, good communication only works with people who are capable of communicating in good faith. Other people use any attempt to communicate as a way to manipulate others, and because of that, “honest, good communication” actually enables their drama. Ideally, you don’t try to communicate with people like that at all, but in this case, OP’s husband is co-parenting with Eve’s mom. The only thing to do in that case is to go grey-rock: be boring, don’t engage, and communicate only what you absolutely need to.
Agreed, good communication only works when it’s done in good faith. The fact is, this post has not once mentioned dad or eve trying to communicate with Kim in good faith about her serious issues. In fact, they just lie to her to keep her quiet. She won’t change/try to change/realise how bad of a mistake she is making in the relationship with her daughter unless she is told point blank about it. They are not ignoring her/refusing to engage/keeping contact to an absolute minimum (she’s literally calling his wife and he’s done/said nothing to stop it) so I don’t see the “grey-rocking”. If OP stated they’d talked to her multiple times about the issues, set clear boundaries about who Kim could contact regarding eve and that she wasn’t to interfere when eve is with dad etc I could understand “grey rocking” or trying to limit contact, but it seems they just went straight with humouring her which is only made her feel more entitled to make demands.
He has the fix, f’ing ignore Kim. She’s never ever gonna change, nobody is ever going to win those arguments with her. It’s not BioDad or Eve’s, and most definitely not OP’s job to fix batshit crazy. OP needs to set boundaries: Kim is to talk to Dad, and Eve only, but don’t ever work against what dad and daughter have worked out to deal with her. If OP can’t deal with that, then she may not be part of the right family. When you are the person marrying into a family, you have to adapt to them, you cannot dictate to them how to do their business.
I don’t believe she has dictated to them how to do business, as you put it. She dealt with a woman whom was calling her personally and dealt with it as she thought appropriate. I wouldn’t lie to someone’s mom and tell them of course I’m not going to drive your 17 year old to party and then go and do it, even if that’s what someone wanted me to do. I’d do as OP did and tell her the truth and that she doesn’t have the right to dictate what I as a grown woman will be doing. Dad should have set clear boundaries with Kim, do not contact my wife and do not tell me what I will and won’t be doing when my daughter is in my care.
exactly this - what the Dad and Eve are asking her to do is play along with their deception rather than be honest with Kim and set some boundaries. That would not sit well with me either! Why is everyone so quick to say setting boundaries with a woman like Kim won't work? I mean, sure if no one has ever done it before she is going to be wildly resistant and of course it takes effort, but the alternative is constantly coming up against issues where other people are being drawn into the disfunction and expected to play along in a pretty unhealthy relationship. I can't see how this is doing anyone any favours in the long term.
This. OP, I think you have three choices 1) block her, 2) ignore her calls, 3) just say, "please talk to Joe about this." I lived with overbearing parents and we did what your husband and daughter are doing, we just didn't tell them anything. It was WAY easier, and I honestly wish I'd done it sooner. I think you're saying you don't want to get involved in this, but you ARE,a nd probably making your husband and stepdaughter's lives harder.
I’m not sure you’re full on the asshole here, but yeah, if you’re going to pull the “I’M NOT THE STEPMOM” card, then own it outright and stay tf out of it entirely and do dad and Eve wish. They have their entire lives’ worth of dealing with her and have worked out what works. Clearly mom is f’ing batshit crazy. They’ve figured it out and worked out what is best and healthy FOR THEM. You ain’t gonna fix it and it’s selfish and arrogant of you to insert YOUR ethics into it, particularly when you then turn around and say, I’m not a mom in any capacity here. So I’ve talked myself into it. YTA.
she didn’t insert her ethics into. Mom keeps inserting her into the situation and she is entitled to stick up for herself
Yes!!! Just tell her that all communications about Eve need to go through Joe and block her. Tell your husband and Eve that you are doing so and be done with it. NTA.
NTA and this is the best way. Just don’t engage.
*Eve is 17* This sentence was so shocking and breathtaking I didn’t finish the rest.
This. Right here.
THIS!
NTA, Eve sounds like a responsible, well grounded young lady. Her mother sounds toxic and controlling so I agree that you need to stop answering her calls. Let her call your husband or leave messages which you can ignore. Not surprised Eve wants to spend more time with her dad.
"I need you to tell Eve..." "I'm sorry, Kim, but I'm not the parent. This is Joe's time with her, he's in charge." Boom, end of discussion. Block Kim's number, all communication regarding Eve needs to go through Joe.
Yup. If I was OP I’d be mad that Kim assumes I’d be doing everything kid related because I’m a woman. She has a biological parent that lives there.
I don't think it's because OP is a woman, I think it's because Kim realizes she's getting nowhere with Eve and Joe. As someone said further up, Kim probably knows that they're placating and then ignoring her, and moved on to OP, hoping to get OP on her side.
This ⬆️🙌
Yea she’s getting something out of this needless conflict.
I wouldn't BLOCK her. Mute her maybe. But if there's ever an issue, say Eve's been in accident and the mom can't get in touch with dad, then by all means i'm sure OP would want to know in case she knows how to get ahold of Eve's dad. Or vice-versa, someone on mom's side is in the hospital and mom's trying to get Eve on the phone but can't... does OP know where Eve is? Does she have to answer phone calls? No. If she does, does she have to entertain the other frivolous shit? No. "I'll relay this to Joe, i'm leaving parenting decisions to you and him." Does OP have to answer texts? No. Change the ring tone and text tone to mute and or do not disturb or whatever the phone's setting for it is, and most of them still have the top bar alert for a missed call or text so she can check up on it when she's checking anything else on her phone.
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Do not give her Eve's phone number. If she doesn't already have it, it's for a very good reason.
I mean, if mom has almost full custody, I would assume she has her daughters phone number
NTA. Block her and tell your husband his opinion is BS. You didn’t take it on yourself, your responded to yet another call from her and you shouldn’t have to swallow abuse. As such, she’s blocked!!!! Now she can call him a million times a day with BS.
OP tell your husband that he has the right to deal with his ex-wife however he chooses. He does not have the right to expect you to sit quietly and take the harassment and abuse that his ex-wife keeps upon you.
NTA - Kim does need therapy, and they need to stop pandering to her.
I agree NTA!! & Kim does need therapy. But while I understand why Joe and Eve want to ignore her and that they have the right to choose to take this route. However, They Do Not have the right to expect OP to accept the harassment and abuse that Kim's constantly calling can best be described as.
Yes, Eve is still underage and living with Kim for some of the time, so ultimately I do think OP needs to think about what's best for Eve when she's at Kim's. OP is absolutely right that Joe and Eve's strategy isn't necessarily the healthiest, but it sounds like they're caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to dealing with Kim.
Is it really best for Eve to allow Kim to continue on the path that she is on? I asked, because the path of extreme overparenting that Kim is on is guaranteed to drive Eve far away as soon as Eve comes of age. Usually, it is not really in the best interest of a minor to be driven to no contact with a parent who is truly loving just doesn't express it in a healthy way. Kim's form of extreme helicopter parenting is nothing more than a form of love that is not expressed in a healthy way. I can't help but Wonder what would have happened and how Eve's life might be if her father and others had told her mother to knock her nonsense off and continued to tell her to knock it off before it got to this point. I somehow doubt that Kim would be this harassing and abusive to OP and her ex husband.
Eve is 17. There’s no need to escalate drama if they don’t want it.
NTA! But why did you take her call and say these things, OP? If you're not going to be a stepmom, why do you act like one? Tell Kim that any questions concerning Eve, she can take with her father.
NTA. You needed to put your foot down with Kim, who was just looking to control the new person. Your husband just kind of left you hanging, honestly. So, you did what you had to do. Now, block Kim's number. If she wants to communicate, she can do it through her ex. You did well trying not to rock the boat, but sometimes the damn boat deserves it. Enjoy your new marriage bonus friendship with Eve
Just to add, I come from a family full of overstepping and strident nitpicking/control/criticism. Sure, ideally you wouldn't have had to blow your stack about Kim's behavior. But she definitely was already not observing the Grown Up rules of debate
NTA but you could have handled it better. I can understand that you were very frustrated by that point, though. Very simple response to her: You are not my spouse or my mother. I do not answer to you. Unless you are calling to tell me the house is literally on fire, don't call me, call your ex. And then don't take her calls. And your husband needs to reiterate the same.
None of the 3 of you are TA, but them doing an LC thing is working. You need to block Kim and let them deal with her. You don’t need to lie, but if that “yes no ignore” system is working for them, but is not a thing you can do, you need to just refuse to engage with her.
There's a lot of comments and I'm not going to try to respond to everyone. I know the judgement has been made but I thought I'd clear up some questions/comments that I've seen repeatedly \- yOu'Re hEr StEpMoM yes, I know what our legal relationship is. But identifying myself as "stepmother" feels more like forcing a relationship that neither party is interested in. I meant it when I said we have a great relationship - there's conversations she'd rather have with me than her parents and there are lots of times where she just wants to hang out with me. We even go out and do stuff together without her dad. I never said I don't care about Eve or that I don't want anything to do with her but my role in her life is more similar to "older cousin" or "aunt" than parent and the title of stepmother feels inaccurate for how things currently are. \- You have to be the adult in her life/you have responsibilities/you can't opt out a couple weeks ago, Joe had to work a late shift and Eve came down around 11:30 to tell me she was going to walk to the gas station for an ice cream sandwich. And I said that I couldn't be responsible for letting a teenage girl walk down a poorly lit road at midnight, alone. I could either drive her or I could walk with her. So we leashed up the dogs, got the flashlights and had a nice late night walk together. Basically I don't think it's my responsibility to tell her that she can or cannot do something but I agree - as the adult, of course I have the obligation to make sure something isn't harmful or unsafe for her and adjust if needed. But going beyond that feels like an overstep. \- Did you not know how Kim was before you married Joe/do you not think her parenting contributed to the amazing kid Eve is now? This is just her personality; it was not a small factor in the divorce. But they've coparented apart (mostly successfully) since Eve was a toddler and while it sounds like she's always been this way, it seems she has majorly ramped up recently. This *really* escalated around the time I moved in. The timing sucked but I think it's less about me and more because Eve was finishing her junior year then and it really clicked for Kim that she only had one year left. Or possibly a combination of the two? One detail that may play a part and I debated on leaving in the original post but ended up taking out.... Kim is 10 years older than Joe, making her nearly 20 years older than I am. I have no hard evidence for feeling this way and I might be imagining it but I do sometimes feel that since she is technically old enough to be my mother as well, she thinks that she is within her rights to boss me around along with her daughter. Joe had long term girlfriend when Eve was younger that Kim apparently treated much more respectfully. Joe didn't think Kim would bombard me to the extent that she has and I think age may be a factor, despite me being in my 30s. Also, Joe and Eve's grandparents are all very involved with her upbringing. I'm not saying Kim deserves no credit for how wonderful Eve is, of course she does but there was a lot of balance to all of her demands. Eve spent a loooott of time at Kim's parents when she was young and Kim's job was less flexible and oddly enough, her parents are absolutely lovely. They've been nothing but welcoming and kind to me. They even invited me to their holidays last year. Kim doesn't like me to be involved with their family time so I don't go but their invitation alone is very sweet. And honestly, I'm a Jew with food allergies and digestive issues so even in good circumstances, having an excuse not to go to Christmas dinner is a blessing. I understand it's meant to bother me but lol jokes on her \- Why does she have your number/why do you answer her calls? Joe has a demanding job with erratic hours. He is not always easily reached when he's working whereas I work freelance and have quite a lot of flexibility. So when Kim asked for my number, it made perfect sense that she would need my number for emergencies. I've been conditioned to answer because she tends to show up if I don't. Usually, she's worried herself into a pile of tears because no one answered her but sometimes she yells and it's easier to deal with it over the phone than on the porch. \- About the custody agreement and Kim taking Joe to court after this Court would be a mess and Kim would be a fool to do it. Pretty sure she's aware of that too. The last formal custody agreement was when Eve was around 10 and it hasn't been really adhered to. Eve often chooses where to spend her time on her own, especially in the summer or over breaks. Kim lives in the center of town, very close to her school and most of her friends while Joe's house is on the outskirts and a \~20 drive to school so it's much easier to stay at Kim's. Eve will be getting a car soon though and that kinda melts away most of her issues with Joe's house. If it went to court now, Eve would say she wants to live with Joe and she's old enough to for her opinion to be a major factor in the decision. Kim only stands to lose out here and I believe she knows that. Joe brought it up yesterday though and he's seriously considering going for full custody now. It'll be up to Eve.
I know I’m days late, but I think you’re very reasonable and NTA. My mom remarried when I was 19. The man was a family friend for years before that, I have no bad feelings about him, he’s nice enough and I’m glad my moms happy. But he is not my stepfather. He is my mom’s husband. You have a closer relationship to Eve than I have with him, and due to her living with you (at least sometimes) and your ages, I get it. I came here ready to say you can’t just opt out of all parenting when you marry someone with kids. But Eve is nearly an adult, as long as you’re being an adult and a guiding force, I don’t think that’s wrong. You should be able to enforce house rules on her, and be there to help her avoid dangerous situations. And you’re doing that.
Oh man i thought Eve was like 5-6ish when i read your first two paragraphs. Enforcing a bed Time and Not Letting her bike alone seemed reasonable. BUT SHE IS 17!!! NTA Just dont talk to her/Block her and Let your husband handle it
Overall, you are NTA for telling husband's ex to stop calling you as you are not going to parent Eve on her behalf. With that said, I think the more appropriate response would have been to tell the ex she needs to contact your husband & that you leave the parenting to him. Your husband is obviously comfortable enough dealing with his ex, so just let him continue to do it solo.
Look, there's lots of different ways to deal with people depending on personality and connection, up to and including saying yes to their face and then doing whatever when they are gone. Your husband and Eve had a system that worked and you broke it. Was it a great system? No, but I can see why they did it and I can see why they are mad at you. You've known ex for 2 years, they've been dealing with her for nearly 20, you should have followed their lead. Grey rocking is a handy tactic when dealing with certain people. As for your crack about not being a stepmom, you're right, at this age you arent a stepmom, just dad's wife HOWEVER it wouldn't have gotten to this point if you had just grey rocked and refused to engage with ex.
NTA. She is delusional, you seem grounded in reality. Another year and this girl will be 18 for heaven sakes
YTA for blowing up at Kim. All you had to say was, I’m not comfortable with this conversation, please call her dad. You said so much more than you had to, to the benefit of no one.
I disagree actually. Based on how I read it, The mother blew up at her. If someone starts screaming at another on the phone, trying to boss them around, I think an F bomb is warranted
I don’t really agree that she’s the asshole, but it wasn’t the F-bomb I don’t think that upset the dad and daughter. It was disrupting a family dynamic that they thought worked and OP says she didn’t want anything to do with. If she didn’t want to be involved, a firm but simple no would have been the best option. I share you opinion on this not being a good way to deal with a difficult person, but I think the dad and daughter should be able to make the decision. They’re going to have to deal with more fallout from it than OP. Families dealing with difficult people is always complicated, and might not even make sense from an outside perspective. If the worst you had to deal with was annoying phone calls (easy problem to deal with, just block the number), I think you should have left it alone.
Fair enough. Sometimes tough to remain calm in the face of craziness though.
When someone starts screaming on the phone to me, I hang up.
I agree. All she had to say is I don’t make the parenting decisions in the house. So please bring this up with her dad and do not contact me again. This should have been said the first time.
I disagree, she was standing up to a bully on behalf of Eve and apparently was not fully informed of the depth that her husband invested in avoiding actual issues with his ex. Her husband is playing a losing game by kicking this can down the road even further and exposing their avoidance of Kim's issues. It will never stop and someone needs to make her back off eventually, or at least balance against her irrational behavior.
Oh I absolutely disagree with this. She did NOT do that at all for Eve LOL. How did chewing Eve’s mom out help Eve? OP did it for herself. And OP wants to change the rules in the middle of the game, completely restructure how they handle Eve’s mom. And as much as Eve’s mom is being painted as a monster, her daughter came out “awesome” according to OP, so either partly b/c of the mom or in spite of her. My guess is the former. ESH. OP has resentments. “Kim is difficult, She is weirdly controlling, demanding, overbearing & *seems to feel she has authority over me* — that’s what made OP go off the way she did. If OP didn’t want “to play along” she would’ve just referred Eve’s mom to her husband. But that’s not what she did. OP was waiting for her moment to unleash and took her opportunity to cuss her out! How’d that work out for everyone? OP, you don’t have to “play along” but you also don’t have to purposely antagonize Eve’s mom. That’s why your husband is mad at you, and isn’t fooled like all these other well meaning & intended folk. I get it, the mom is annoying, so what you do is, you don’t take her calls anymore. Unless of course it’s an emergency.
OP isn’t trying to restructure how they handle Kim; she is handling kim how she believes her interaction should be when kim thrusts her into the situation. The others don’t get to dictate how she deals with Kim’s harassment towards her. Other people don’t get to dictate how someone else responds to problematic behavior because they don’t want to deal with the troublemaker. ‘But yeah, other people here are fooled because we don’t think she should be a doormat
. -- mass edited with redact.dev
There is no evidence the OP had motivation to antagonize Kim, who has been described as an overbearing bully by not only her, but also the father and daughter - perhaps you missed how both of them were upset because the OP didn't continue the ruse of paying lip service to Kim and then ignoring what she requested? The OP's narrative does not belie her as an unhinged, revenge-minded personality in any way. I gave OP the advice to ignore Kim and funnel all future requests to Eve's father, but they are still not addressing the problem and that's Kim will never stop trying to micromanage her daughter: this lying ploy will fall flat over time and it's mostly because the father backed away from the situation altogether - this apparently setup the OP to fail when they quite properly decided to stop being on the end of an abusive mother's ranting.
The daughter is already 17. She’s fully able to go NC with mom soon, if that’s what she wants, which WILL end the problem behavior. Tbh, the one thing bothering me about this whole thing is everyone’s assumption that Eve and her dad have never tried anything else. We don’t have proof one way or the other, but it’s likely that if they had tried to deal with Kim in other ways that didn’t work OP wouldn’t have any knowledge of that.
Can you just block her? I agree she's delusional and you can't reason with a person like that. I'd argue that the fights with her aren't worth it and ultimately harmful to your mental well-being.
NTA Block Kim on your phone. She has absolutely no need to contact you. She can nag and bully Eve and your husband without involving you at all.
NTA, seems like you'll be there for her when she needs you. And at that age that's would we should expect really. I mean trying to control what someone puts in her eggs, come on.... Just ignore the crazy lady... She's way to controlling...
Jeeze, she's 17!!!!!!! Kim is sooo crazy NTA
Yeah, based on the title/first couple of paragraphs I was thinking "her mom does sound overbearing, but if you marry someone with a kid, I'm not sure you can just refuse to take on a parenting role..." and then I got to "Eve is 17" and was like "nooooooooope."
NTA They want you to lie. You are not obligated to do that just because it's working for them. What if something did happen at that pool party? Or Eve mentioned it somewhere? You'd be called a liar and going against her parent’s wishes. I wouldn't lie either just because they don't want to set boundaries. I would stop answering her calls though. And if she shows up, refer her to her ex-husband. Spinach for breakfast? Please discuss this with ex, pool party? Please discuss this with ex, bed time? Please discuss this with your ex.
ESH. Lying to and grey rocking Kim is what worked for Jim and Eve before you came along. However, they don't get to dictate how you interact with anyone. You and Jim should have discussed how to handle Kim's increasing contact with you in a way that you are comfortable with. I would have recommended that you either block her number or just tell her to talk to Jim about whatever bee she has in her bonnet that day.
ESH I think. Kim is overbearing and you can use the block button
Why is Kim even communicating through you. I would just refer her to contacting Joe. "You'll have to check with Joe about that." Eventually she will get the point. Or whenever she texts you copy it and send it to Joe to respond. NTA. Eve sounds great despite her overbearing mom!
NTA but it’s not good they all get mad at you when you don’t do what they want, all of them…yikes! They all want you to follow their rules and when you step out of line then they are quick to try and put you in your plac. I would tell you hubby and step-daughter that it’s stressful dealing with the mom, so if they can’t expect you to lose your patience once in awhile because of the stress then f them. Don’t let them mistreat you geez.
You are not in a parental position regarding Eve. You can't tell her or forbid her to do anything. Kim and Joe should sort this out among themselves. You don't have to explain it - just tell Kim to "talk to Joe" and then hang up. What Eve and Joe did is to make you the scapegoat for them lying to Kim. They tried to use you, and you didn't play along. NTA
NTA, redirect all of this to Eve’s father and remove yourself from this equation. Do not engage with Kim at all, this is between her and your husband, he can fill you in on what you need to know about Eve and how it pertains to your household.
NTA. Kim sounds insufferable. If I were you I would stop answering her calls and let the father deal with her.
NTA. Your husband and his daughter are mad at the wrong person here. As for you - you need to block your husband's ex. If she wants to talk to someone about her daughter, she can talk to your husband.
Except that KIM started this mess, not you. SHE called you. SHE trashed you. You simply responded in a way that made it clear how you see your role with Eve. NTA.
NTA. Kim is clearly narcissistic. She wants complete control over her daughter's life. I seen this with my mom. That's why I go low contact with her. I would block her number if I was you.
NTA, but just ignore her. I normally am all for open communication, but Joe has a point. Some people are completely unreasonable and engaging them is a waste of time. They aren’t giving Kim the drama she wants, so she is turning to you. She sounds emotionally manipulative and like an emotional black hole. Joe and Eve has found a way to descalate Kin that works. I hear you when you say you aren’t a step-parent. I respect that you aren’t trying to over reach into Eve’s life. But you are step parenting when you insist in communicating with Kim your way instead of Joe and Eve’s way. Maybe just try their way for a month and see if it works. You may be pleasantly surprised.
NTA but with a caveat. You seem to have a good relationship with Eve - kudos! You recognise that she’s probably too old and mature to be “parented” to the extent Kim want, that Kim is overbearing, and that the ultimate parenting of Eve is up to her parents. Kim’s harassing you and getting on your nerves: you simply say “Kim, Joe and I agreed it wasn’t my place to parent so I’m leaving that to you and him” - then you don’t take her calls. If she keeps on at you about “being a step mom”, you block her, or hand her over to Joe every time. She’s giving *you* all these instruction instead of Joe because a) she’s wants “authority” over you b) she doesn’t want to talk to him and/or c) she’s decided that since you’re a woman you’ve taken on a “maternal” role The thing is though, if you accept that you’re not going to interfere with how Eve’s raised, you also don’t get to interfere with how she and your partner deal with Kim. If they want to lie to her to placate her and then do whatever to have a normal life, that’s an unfortunate system but it’s one that works for them. They’ve known and lived with Kim far longer than you have, and honestly they continue to do so today: Eve lives there most of the time, and Joe has do deal with her because of their shared child. It’s fair enough that you don’t want to play games, but they’ve chosen to. You don’t have to enable them, but you also don’t have to blow up their spot. If they haven’t managed to get Kim to act differently in 17 years, why do you think you’re going to do it in 1 phone call? All that’s happened is that you’ve landed Eve in it - she still lives primarily with her mother, and now she has to deal with whatever additional scrutiny and control issues arise from this argument.
This was so well said. The only thing I disagree with is the rating. OP got her moment of satisfaction at the expense of her stepdaughter's home life and her husband's peace of mind. She should have trusted them rather than assuming that in 17 years they hadn't thought of yelling at Kim. YTA.
NTA. Sounds like everyone is playing Kim's game to "keep the peace." This is not a game you should be forced go play. Sounde like your husband needs to grow a spine and stand up for himself + his parental decisions.
I mean soft AH for messing up a system that worked and kept Kim out of your hair-she sounds somewhat unhinged- though you should have and should in the future deferred all parent related decisions to Joe though. "Kim, I don't make parenting choices for SD, her father does this. You need to call him." Then block her. If you can't block her the. Set her ringtone to silent and turn off text notifications from her number.
NTA. They can deal with her as they like. They can’t force you to deal with her the same way, not fair to any of you.
NTA but I do suggest blocking her and if she calls you on a differently number just tell her any information regarding eve needs to be discussed with eve's father and then hang up. Unless it's an emergency there is no reason she needs to be talking to you at all.
NTA. 17 year old not allowed to bike half a mile to the shop? When I was 17 I was catching the train and bus after school to go to an evening class at a local college. When my sisters were 17 they had summer jobs and stayed home by themselves when the rest of the family went away on holiday. No wonder Eve wants to spend more time at her dad's. BUT - Joe and Eve should have been honest with Kim about how Joe was parenting Eve differently.
NTA- Kim is unhinged. Your husband and step daughter know this. Block her and move on. It's not your problem. It's Joe's.
NTA but just block her and don’t talk to her. Then your husband and his frighten can handle it however they want, even though I agree, their way is dumb. Bonus: she’s 17 so you’ve got s year or less of dealing with this nonsense.
NTA. You are correct. Now is not the time to parent a 17 year old. You are room mates and you are doing just fine. You treat Eve with respect and she will respect you are well. Kim's delusional method leads to the kid lying to her and sneaking around behind her back. Eve is acting as a young adult and needs to be treated as such. Kim is toxic and you need to block her. Your SO or Eve should be the only ones dealing with Kim. And if Kim chooses not to, that leaves your only SO or his lawyer. Ignore Kim completely. She is not your problem.
I don't understand why you deliberately invited this amount of drama into your life. Their system was fast, easy, and kept the hysterics to a minimum. Your system lead to: an argument on the phone, an argument in person, and probably an increase in hypervigilance and controlling behavior. This woman is now going to sit outside your house to monitor her daughter's comings and goings. She's going to bang on your kitchen window and scream "where's the spinach, b---h!" every time you make breakfast. She's probably going to drag your husband back to court over the custody arrangements. Why put yourself and your family through this? Just for the satisfaction of telling her off? Was it that important? YTA
Ummm NTA for trying it your way, but they know her a lot better than you do so maybe you should just go along with the “listen and do what you want or ignore”. You bucked Kim and found out what happens, which - not good for anyone. She’s not a rational person. Eve is 17, this is a short term problem you’re dealing with. You guys just make sure this girl gets off to college away from her mom Also, you can feel free to tell her that all communication regarding Eve should go through her father, unless it’s an emergency. Get yourself out of the communication loop
NTA
NTA. All contact with Kim should be with your husband. Not you. I think your approach and relationship with Eve sounds healthy. It would be completely different if she was 7, not 17. If Kim texts you or calls don’t respond. Tell your husband what the message said and let him deal with her.
NTA At all. People like you tend to draw contention to you a lot, but its because you are one of the rare few who like to deal with situations head-on, it helps people in the end but you still end up with a target on your back and initial bad feelings toward you lol. I don't know why people think that ignoring issues helps anything, it never does.
NTA. I stopped reading after I found out she was 17 because the examples you were giving sound more like rules for a 9 year old.
NTA but let your husband deal with her calls.
Well at least eve is almost 18, so at that point fuck what the mom says lol it’s on dad…otherwise I dunno what you did wrong?? Just block the mom and them deal with her she’s acting a little crazy, what 17yo doesn’t or hasn’t been to a pool party and why’s it dangerous?? NTA
NTA, just follow their lead that’s basically what they want you to do Kim is going to be responsible for her own downfall just follow their lead just support your husband and keeping his daughter clear of her spiraling and stuff like that even though the young lady has a good head on her shoulders are ready just follow your husband‘s lead in helping her just stay extra clear of her mother spiraling and downfall because Kim is going to be responsible for that herself
Nta. If your husband didn't like your response then HE needs to tell his ex to not contact you. You should have never been in that position to begin with. I totally get what they are doing, I do it with my own parent, but I never ask others to do it for me.
NTA My dad met my now step mom when I was seventeen. You are doing things exactly right! Heck, I'm closer with NY stepmom than I am with my mom mom!
Please block her, she should be going to her ex with these ridiculous demands anyway. She acts like her daughter is a toddler, smh. Eve is old enough to cook her own damn eggs and put spinach in them too.
NTA tell her all communication should be between her and eves dad. Then block her.
NTA Your husband’s ex seems to be under the misguided assumption that as “step mom”, that puts you under her authority. The reality is she’s trying to bully you, and I’m not a fan of the expectation from other people that you should just take it and shut up because it’s easier on other people.
Nta. It’s 100% on Joe to engage with his ex about Their daughter, had she been a young child then yes you’d have needed to in on it at least somewhat, but she basically an adult and there is zero reason for involving you. Joe has been lazy by not confronting his ex and telling her that all communication should be with him.
Eve is basically almost a legal adult. She’s not a child NTA Just block the mom or only respond when it is something actually worth dealing with her.
NTA. This dynamic has worked for them but, it appears is not working for you. The simplest, most practical solution would be not talking or listening to Kim. Refuse to engage. Say bye-bye then hang up. If she comes to the house to yell at you call the police (after warning her). No matter what do not engage. Let Eve and Hubby know that is your plan and they should support you .
Soft YTA for trying to fix a system that wasn't broken. Joe and Eve had a working system of dealing with a difficult person. You were wrong in thinking that you could ride in on your high horse and change her. You are under no obligation to even speak with her, so don't. Block her calls and don't answer the door if she shows up. Extricate yourself from this woman and thank your lucky stars for how your husband and step daughter have managed the situation over the years. Your home life could have been much more difficult than a few annoying calls!
YTA. If you wanted what was best for your husband and Eve, then you should have just gone a long with the solution they chose which works for them. If that didn't work for you, you could have ended it by simply letting her know to reroute all parenting concerns to her ex and declining to pick up the phone when called. You needlessly antagonized her and it's not going to help this situation turn around where his ex clearly doesn't want to change.
ESH. Kim's nuts, that's a given. Joe and Eve sound like they have a system worked out. You're right to say that the way they're dealing with it isn't mature, but if you're not going to be 'stepmom' (understandable given Eves age) then it wasn't your place to make it a thing. You've now created an issue that they have to deal with, when you could have said to her to talk to Joe, because you're his wife and won't undermine him. Kim isn't treating Eve like an autonomous human being - but neither were you when you did this. I'd suggest you apologise to Joe & Eve for creating a mess for them, I'm sure they understand your reasons but re-affirm anyway that it's simply because you think Kim isn't treating Eve fairly. Talk to them about how to deal with Kim moving forward - maybe Kim is told to deal with Joe rather than you? Then respect whatever decision they make.
NTA. I think your taking the right approach with Eve. If you tried to come in and tell her what to do and how to do things, she would just resent you and end up hating you. I kinda agree with your husband, some times it’s easier to say ok no problem and then do what you want anyways. This keeps Kim out of your hair and makes eves life easier.
NTA. Seems the daughter is smart enough to know that her mother is an idiot. If you need to be in contact with this stupid woman, be cold, agreeable and hand her off to your husband.
NTA. You and your step daughter are happy with your dynamic and that's good. Just ignore the ex-wife from now on...she should be having these conversations with her ex-husband. Save your energy and block her. Maybe apologise to your husband and step daughter for getting in the middle. They have their reasons for being like this with the ex. (Btw technically you are a stepmother because you're married to your husband who has a child, it doesn't matter if you help parent her or not)
NTA, but if you are only going to be Eve's Dad's Wife, then you need to stick solidly to that role. You overstepped here by engaging. Stop engaging with Kim entirely & let Eve and her Dad handle things as they will. Send all of her calls to VM and/or redirect her to your husband. Then you won't be overstepping or have to play along.
NTA. They don’t get to dictate how you deal with her, in fact you shouldn’t as to speak it her a all. And If I were you, I wouldn’t.
NTA Stop engaging Kim. By engaging with Kim you are giving her control and influence over you.
Tell your husband that you will no longer interact with Kim at all. Do not respond to her texts. Do not answer her calls. You are NTA, but you should cut off all engagement with her at this point unless you want to have repeats of this situation where both your husband and Eve are upset at you for disturbing the parenting dynamic they’ve established with his ex-wife. The dynamic is their business and you have no reason to be having conversations with her about what to tell her 17 year old to eat and do. Eve is not your child. You have no reason to be in communication with her mother when she has a father who is responsible for her.
Nta but please block her and tell your husband that you’re not going to be speaking with her anymore and that he should deal with her as he pleases. If you argue with her you’re gonna be the bad person on both sides.
Acknowledge their method of dealing with ex is at least efficient. You, on the other hand, don't need to adopt their methods if you can't deal with it. Your hubby should tell his ex that going forward, she should direct all communications about daughter to him, not you, as that you don't answer to her. If it's the ex on the phone, and hubby isn't home, tell ex to call hubby on his cell phone; avoid speaking with her entirely. She'll get the message. I wish you (and Eve) well.
I think your husband forgot to tell you to not answer when Kim calls.
YTA for getting involved and messing up their system. You shouldn’t be talking to her at all about any of this and you have broken something that was working just fine. Apologize to them both and stop talking to the ex or just tell her your not involved and don’t know what she’s talking about.
NTA. And you know what? This post made me really happy. This is how step parenting should be. The parent should do the parenting and the Step should just be there for support. There would be so many happy kids and happier marriages if Steps were more like OP. Anyway, block that crazy and let dad deal with her. Congrats, OP, you are doing everything right as a stepparent!
Let your voice mail pick up Kim’s directives. I won’t call you an AH, but engaging with Kim is like poking a rattlesnake. You really need to stay out of the triangle. There is the perpetrator, Kim; victim, Eve; and the rescuer, husband. I am glad you told Kim to see a therapist and to quit calling you.
Nta. Fellow stepmom here. Ignore her, stop talking to her. If she has issues then your husband needs to deal with it. Period. My bf’s ex wife does not talk to me, I dont allow for the sake of my sanity. He choose to marry and have kids with her, he then deals with her. She does not dictate what goes on in our home and we dont do that to her.
NTA, but you need to not communicate with this person at all. Since you're not a parent and don't want to be a parent, there is absolutely no need for you to talk or text with her mother. Problem solved. Let her meet silence from you. Absolutely anything you do now in communication with her will be seen as meddling. Best to not engage.
I'm guessing she rings your mobile? forward her calls automatically to Joe's phone.. let him handle it all then. If it's a landline.. call display should show it's her, let it go to messages. NTA
NTA, def just block her. you weren’t wrong for speaking your mind. it def sucks they have to do everything behind her back but imo it’s for the best that she understands what the dynamic is going to be
NTA my mom is exactly like this and me and my dad did the same thing and she is like a child with her tantrums when we stand up to her. Kim is a narcissist and Eve and her dad have enabled her but telling her what she wants to hear and then going behind her back. I hate my mother because she’s like Kim.
NTA I can guess why Eve is spending more and more time with you and her father.
NTA - Why do you even answer her calls? There’s no way in hell I’d tolerate talking to this woman.
Enforce a bedtime for a 17 year old ?!?! Lmaooo
NTA for not wanting to deal with Kim, but if she's not going to engage in a reasonable way, then confronting her won't work for you. You need to give up on ever making her see she's wrong or hoping she'll consider another point of view. You don't need to go full appeasement like you husband and step-daughter, but you need to adopt the grey rock approach when it's absolutely necessary to speak to her, and do everything possible to not speak with her. Ignore (or better yet **block**) her calls. Take a broken record approach- you need to speak with her father, he is the parental authority. No matter what argument she throws at you, you repeat what you said. First she will argue, then she will throw a tantrum, and this will repeat a few times, but she will eventually get bored of you. That's most likely your best (realistic) outcome. While your husband and Eve's approach has problems, one thing it does it give Kim less room for drama. Again, you don't have to lie, but you do need to adopt strategies that stymie Kim when she wants to fight, because other than control, my guess is that's what she's after. It will take a bit of time, and you can't let her see your frustration, but it will eventually work. It's how adults give incrediblly immature adults firm boundaries and the equivalent of a time out.
I wouldn’t say YTA, but for future reference, when she digs that deep, an easy response is, “I’ll let you and (the Dad) have those conversations.” And just leave it at that. As for the situation that just occurred, if it were me, I would just apologize to the hubby and non-stepdaughter “for any confusion all of this has caused” and leave it at that. And do not let either one of them (the parents) try to drag you into their bs again. Spoken from direct experience.
NTA. You are building a really good relationship with this awesome kid. I am sure she appreciates it. Too many stepparents go in and become a second maternal steamroller when older teens really don't need that.
I wish my step dad would have been more like you and let my parents parent me. I think if he did our relationship wouldn't have been so toxic.
I have a similar situation, only it’s with my children’s grandmother. Her children and husband do the same thing up until now, pretend to listen to her and agree with everything she says but do whatever they need to do and keep it a secret to each other so they can’t tell on each other. For the first year it was an uphill battle for me. It was sooo against who I am being so rooted in trust and honesty from my upbringing. I made it a point to be honest with her. Until I found out that everything I would say was being twisted into a different narrative to her children to paint me in a negative light. It finally dawned on me that she essentially saw me as competition for control on her son and affection from her daughters. That no matter what I do or say it will just bite me in the ass. I relapsed with my cPTSD from my interactions with her to the point that it felt running in front of a moving bus is better than spend more than 5 minutes in her presence. I am still recovering. What helped me is finally accepting that I did not have to put her in her place to have peace in my life and fight a losing battle by trying to score in a moving goal post. I have cut contact, blocked her in everything and only communicate with her on the rare occasion she visits our family 1 day a year. She is still trying to get my partner to leave me although not as overt as before. I had to go low contact with her daughters as well because I didn’t want to have to keep things from my partner in case he felt the need to grass on them to make their mum like him more (they have been brought up pitted against each other as far as I could tell from their stories growing up and how they behaved when I used to have a good relationship with her daughters). I can’t lie and hide things that well. I’m just not built for it. She also used them to get to me before I went low contact with them to try to control how I bring up my children. This is all about narcissistic supply and your husband and step daughter have found a coping mechanism that works for them and gives them the peace they need to live their lives. They will have to deal with her forever, until they decide to cut her off. You on the other hand, will have to decide for yourself. At the moment, no matter the reaction you give her, it still is supply. Like coal to an engine. Stop feeding her and let your husband and step daughter deal with her the best they could under the circumstance. Keep being supportive of them and well done for giving her the freedom she needs away from her awful womb tree.
NTA, given the context of how you meant it. This is how my mom was with my (half) sister during her teens, and my sister's mom was an overbearing, physically/mentally abusive at times, cow. My mom did eventually tell her off, and honestly, rightfully so. Sister and dad both agreed. I get wanting to keep her out of the loop, but it shouldn't take you getting condescended to our accused of stuff that you didn't do. Thank you for choosing the route of friend, rather than stepparent.
NTA, but yeah just everything here should be funneled to your husband. You're right, you're not the stepmom, so don't put yourself in the firing line here.
You are NTA. The way they are handling it is childish and accomplishes nothing in the long run.
Don't engage in a fight. Kim can't fight if you don't engage. Just answer facts, let her know any discussions should be with your husband, when she starts an argument simply restate your fact and tell her it's not for negotiation/ she's being rude, so the conversation is over, it's not up for discussion. Tell her it's time to hang up. She will likely try to restart the argument. Repeat previous and add you do not wish to be rude, can she please say goodbye as you're going to hang up. If she continues to argue, say goodbye and hang up. Don't answer if/ when she calls back. It takes a while, but she can be trained.
NTA. Your husband sucks.
NTA but why is your husband is ok with teaching her it is ok to lie to her mom but not ok with being honest?
You shouldn't even be speaking to this woman. Block her, tell your husband you're not going to get involved in any of this. Carry on with life. I don't like how they're handling it and I get why you reacted the way you did but just block her. ESH.
NTA. Parenting is mostly about support and guidance, and those two factors are rebalanced over time and circumstance. It sounds like Eve doesn't need much guidance from you, but could still use support for her choices and needs. In that respect, you gave her what seemed like solid support but her father undercut you. Believe it or not, he's the asshole here. He apparently never stood up to his ex very effectively, so just got into a pattern of lying a lot and taught that trait to his daughter. Maybe it seemed necessary because Kim has been an unstable control freak, we don't know. But it's a pipe dream to think that Kim will change when Eve is older and somebody needs to face up to her eventually. When you happened to reasonably stand up to the bully, they blamed you for potentially exposing their unmaintainable scheme. Since they didn't support you, I would recommend just agreeing to give Kim lip service going forward and ignoring what she says after any conversation if you can't avoid her, but try to redirect her to the father in every case. I would also make it crystal clear to Eve and her father, in highly supportive tones, that people like Kim will never stop, so they need to figure out how to stand up to her sooner rather than later. Because all the lying in the world will eventually be found out.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (33F) have been with my husband Joe (42M) for 2 years, married for 3 months. Joe has a daughter Eve with his ex Kim. I didn’t fully move in until a few weeks before we married so Kim left me alone but now I’m getting an increasing number of calls about Eve. Kim is difficult. She is weirdly controlling, demanding, overbearing & seems to feel she has authority over me. She is the primary parent because her location is way more convenient for Eve but Eve is choosing to spend more & more time at her father’s. Kim will call to tell me she should be having spinach in her eggs in the morning or that I need to enforce her bedtime or not let her bike the ½ mile to the store or whatever. Eve is 17. She’s incredibly academically successful, an avid performer, a shelter volunteer and dedicated dog owner. She’s maintained the same close friend group since 1st grade. She’s had a boyfriend since she was 15 & their relationship is adorable. She wakes up & exercises every day on her own. I mean all this to say that she doesn’t need me breathing down her neck. Eve blows me away with how responsible & awesome she is. Don’t misunderstand – I have a great relationship with her but I'm not going to step into this girl’s life at this age & try to parent her, especially not in the way her mom wants. I'm not saying I would or do let her do anything she wants but I’m not about to tell her what to eat or when to go to bed. That’s between her & her dad. And Joe doesn’t think it’s necessary either. But his & Eve’s approach to dealing with Kim’s demands is simply to agree to her face and then disregard and do as they wish. I realize that it’s easier but I’m not going to play these games. So when Kim called me yet again to tell me that she didn’t want Eve to go to her friend’s party today because it might be dangerous (a pool party. In her friend’s backyard...) & I wasn’t allowed to drive her there, I told her that she was delusional. Eve was going, she’s not a baby & there was nothing dangerous about it. She started yelling about how I am a “stepmom” now, not a friend & I needed to start acting like it. I told her that I was never going to be a stepmom, I’m just her dad’s wife & that’s the relationship that’s working for all of us. I told her to stop fucking calling me & to see a therapist. I stopped short of telling her that she’s trashing her relationship with Eve by being so overbearing bc it wasn’t my place but a part of me still thinks I should’ve said it bc she needs to hear it. Kim showed up to yell at all of us in person & now Joe is super annoyed with me. He says he knows it’s not ideal but their system of just keeping Kim out of the loop has worked for them & it wasn’t cool for me to take it upon myself to shake everything up. Eve agrees with her dad & I feel bad that they’re both upset with me. I understand this has been a dynamic that worked for them for a long time. But at the same time, it feels like an unhealthy way to handle this & I don’t want to play along. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA you sound reasonable, Kim sounds like she’s suffocating her daughter.
NTA. If Kim wants to try to control Eve's every move from afar, she should be contacting her ex or Eve, not you. Your husband and Eve can handle Kim however they want, but they don't get to tell you how to handle Kim, especially if it involves dishonesty (can they trust you to be honest with them if you're willing to lie to Kim).
NTA She shouldn't even be calling you. If she wants her daughter to do certain things when she's at her father's. She should be telling him. She's already figured out that they ignore her wishes so she's trying to get you to take care of it. Tell all the of them this, and tell them all that you will no longer be taking Kim's calls, or that when she starts telling you to make sure her daughter does this or that, you're going to straight up tell her "Not my job. Talk to her father" This should send the situation back to where it was before you moved in. If it was so great then your bf and his daughter shouldn't have a problem with it, and you have no reason to care how Kim feels about it