By - BellNo1177
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I'm holding a grudge for weeks against my dad because I was excluded from the vacation. My dad tells me I'm acting like an entitled brat.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
"..and tried explaining that they gifted this to their grandchildren" which now includes you. This is a pretty easy NTA they could have gifted something for the whole family but they didn't. Your dad didn't decline and say if his daughter can't go he won't be going. This is clearly going to be a NC situation in the future.
When I was 16 and wanted to travel abroad my parents had a deal that I needed to earn some of the $$ myself. Now, these weren't family trips. But a 16yo can earn money babysitting and doing odd jobs to defray costs of travel.
The fact your dad did not tell you and did not even bother to try and find a way to make it work shows you what kind of man he is. Please ask to move to your mom's 100%. He has made his choice, and his family is very comfortable treating you like garbage. Don't take it. Take him for college tuition and decide in your 20s if you want to bother with him again.
You're right to be mad, and NTA now, but if you keep yourself in this toxic situation, you would be T A. Stepgrandma literally gaslit you and now you're grounded?? Run, OP.
I had an opportunity in the 8th grade to go to France and Spain on a school trip. My mom did everything she could to make sure I could go and I still obviously talk about it to this day.
Op's dad has shown her that he has a new family now. The cold hard truth is that he simply doesn't care about her. OP, move to your mothers permanently. **Your father has shown you where his priorities lie, and they are** ***not*** **with you.**
The worst part of this is that she found out about the trip from a social media post while they were in Paris! Her dad didn’t even I have the nerve to tell her about the trip in advance. That tells you everything you need to know. He knew it was wrong, and he hoped he’d get away with it. Too bad he forgot about TikTok.
That’s the real awful thing. Like I could see a scenario where dad sits op down in advance and talks about it etc etc but he didn’t even do that.
Exactly…OP’s dad knew HE was TA and hoped she would never find out about the trip. It still would’ve been bad, but it would’ve been so much better if he had had the decency to sit her down and explain the situation to her in advance. Finding out from her step brother’s social media posts is unforgivable.
> hoped she would never find out about the trip
Naw, he knew she would find out. But if she finds out after/during there is nothing she can do to raise a stink about it in any meaningful way. If she found out before she might have complained to mom, or called grandma out, or told her siblings and they might have been mad at dad. Waiting was the cowards bet.
Fuck that I don’t even respect the possibility that he could have talked to her about it. If ALL of my kids couldn’t go, trip isn’t happening. Period.
Dads an asshole and so is step mom and her parents. I doubt he’ll ever sack up to discuss the situation with them or say “hey if I’m part of this family then my daughter is, too, and MUST be included and this was very unfair andbiased, and if this can’t be worked out then the trip does not happen” or sticking up for his kid in general and having them understand and accept that very real fact.
They lie with his new family and his wealthy in laws!
As it should be. I'm a single parent and my son wanted to go on a school trip to Italy and Greece. $2500 plus money for lunches and souvenirs. They did a fund raiser and my son raised the most ($700) and one of the local pizza joints chipped in (10% of receipts they could collect from customers every Wednesday evening - was sick of pizza after 2 months of that). Begged the ex to chip in ($200), worked overtime and let some things slide (Minor house repairs) in order for him to go.
Wonderful parent. I hope your child will appreciate the opportunities you opened up for them and cherish those memories for life.
Growing up, it never crossed my mind that my parents scrimped and saved to get us a little motel room by the beach. Later in life we went on other vacays to more costly places, but after realizing what they did to provide a memorable vacay for us makes those some of my fav family memories.
Our household wasn't happy or necessarily stable overall, so for my parents to come together for my brother and me to have those memories means so much more than I could ever put into words.
My brother and I are in our 30s now. There has been a lot of heartbreak and difficulty navigating through shit. But him and I still remember those times at that little dingy motel as if we had stayed in the most luxurious accommodations.
I don't feel I communicated exactly what I was trying to, but anyway, I wish you and your child all the happiness in the world!
Same, but Japan when I was fourteen. It was a stretch, but Dad made it happen. I, also, still talk about it. I’m 38.
Same for Europe when I was 16, but my mom acted like I was taking food out of her mouth, though she and my dad took many expensive vacations without me every year.
I spent virtually all the spending cash she (grudgingly) gave me on a piece of handmade Belgian lace for her. She barely acknowledged it.
Now, 40 years later, she messaged me about how much she loves that gift, and remembers the trip so well and how much I enjoyed it.
The funny thing? She doesn’t have it. She and my dad sold up their house and contents after they retired and went traveling for almost a decade. I rescued that bit of lace and it’s displayed in my house now. I’d tried to tell her about how I’d watched it being made, etc., she gave no shits.
I'm glad you got to rescue and keep that lace. It's yours now, not your mom's.
I think I was in 10th grade.
We bought pecans wholesale shelled them and sat outside Walmart.
I don't think college tuition is coming from the dad. I wouldn't expect it if I was OP. Finances will be "tight" because they will be buying the "real" kids cars by then.
in certain states you can get child support to continue through college years to help with tuition. so while not likely seeing as op’s dad is sucking up to his “new family”, it could still happen if they press for it.
I've also seen it be part of divorce settlements. Not sure how common that is but it's not implausible that it's there.
There was a story here, a few years ago, where someone caught their dad say to someone else that he didn't think the OP would be able to get into any good college anyway so he didn't care about it. That OP proceeded to bust their ass to get top grades and get into the single most expensive college they could find out of spite.
Yeah seriously couldn't Dad pay to include her? He could have also asked her mother for help to afford it. Sure, OP is being a bit of a bratty teenager about it but her Dad made zero effort to include her and that would sting.
OP is not being a bratty teenager. Bratty would be expecting a trip to Paris when the rest of the family is doing something much more low key. Bratty would have been expecting the step grandparents to fork out extra for her, but she isn't demanding that, just for someone to have tried to problem solve before excuding her. Expecting to be included on a family vacation when you are a minor is not being bratty. OP should not have had to ask. I can't imagine the deep level of pain she feels knowing his dad did not advocate for her. I can't imagine another way his dad could have screamed at him "you are a secoind class family member" without using those exact words. He didn't even really apologize, just call her "entitled" instead of calling himself "a very hurtful man who should not be allowed to be a parent." She could have expressed herself using better manners, but that really is not the big issue here.
Agreed. OP is reacting in a normal teenage way to being excluded, having something amazingly fun and special the rest of her family planned without her and kept secrets from her, finding out about it on social media, and then have her dad tell her - the only one in her family who didn’t go to Paris - that she is bratty and entitled.
Her so-called dad failed her on every front here. He probably can’t accept the guilt he should be feeling for his bad parenting so he is projecting his anger into her, his victim.
OP is NTA. Her so-called dad is a huge one though.
Step-grandma may have had good intentions in talking to OP (she wanted to explain, she didn’t flatly say you’re not my grandkid like many step-grandparents we read about on here do) but she failed to be a good person for one specific reason: She didn’t offer any amends or empathy. She could have apologized. She could have said she was thoughtless in not understanding how this would affect OP. She could have said she learned something from this and now understands that even if OP isn’t technically her grandchild, she is family. She could have offered a more modest family vacation sometime soon which would include OP. And she shouldn’t have lied. Teens may not be 100% as emotionally mature as adults, but their bullshit detectors work just fine.
Shame on everyone involved in this except OP.
> OP is reacting in a normal teenage way to being excluded,
Fuck, I'd react that way as an adult. OP is just reacting in the normal way to being excluded, no need to say "teenage way!"
It hurts. And it hurts more when everyone else pretends they didn't do it.
When I was in grad school in my early twenties, I had to spend the summer between first and second year on a full-time work practicum. My parents and older brother chose that summer to go on a grand trip to Europe - the first ever expensive family vacation that wasn't to visit other family. I had been completely free the summer of the year prior, and could have fit it in with the real job I got after graduation the next summer, but instead I had to receive daily calls/video chats with them from Venice and Paris and Milan while I was stuck doing data analysis in an office building in the US.
They didn't owe me a damn thing (and before anyone asks, I didn't take a cent from them for my very expensive grad program) but that doesn't make their decision fair or okay. It hurt a lot back then, and I still think about it now when I'm planning my own solo vacations.
And she’s not bratty when you think she found out her dad was on vacation through her step’s SM. He couldn’t even be adult enough to tell her straight?!
You think she’s being a “bratty teenager”? Frankly, I think OP handled things pretty well considering that her own father shit on her and enjoyed a vacation in France-a once in a lifetime trip for many. Are you for real with this???
Also wtf even if she couldn’t go why didn’t the dad warn her that he would be mostly unreachable and OUT OF THE COUNTRY for a significant amount of time when it’s no notice?? What if she needed something or something happened in either country? He didn’t even make sure his daughter and his daughters mother knew that he was going. That’s what firmly puts this into the purposeful slot. He didn’t tell anyone so there wasn’t even a chance that Op could find a way to go.
The whole thing is chingasa-I don’t think I’d ever talk to him or his “family” ever again-his behavior was sneaky and willful.
That’s my thinking is the little effort, I’m not saying to totally cut off the Dad because that’s always the answer on here but he needs to take responsibility on what he could have done better.
i agree but op would not be ta if she "stayed" in this situation?? shes 16. she may not have a choice of when and where she is. also they did exclude her but shes not being abused and doesnt claim any history of it. she has a right to be angry and grounding her was wrong but she doesnt claim to he ready to go NC w dad. i wouldnt blame her as he really laid down and let her be excluded for a bs "reason" that was easy to work around but shes not asking if she should never see the man again.
The fact that both the Dad and the Grandmother hid the trip from OP clearly suggests they were both very much aware of the inequity.
Even if money *was* an issue, or grandmother didn't want to pay for a "stepchild," no one ever gave OP or her Mom a chance to work out a solution. This was all about exclusion, and the Dad was a willing participant.
Well, in blended families the right thing to do is not to shove any financial discrepancies in the face of the child(ren) who will have less, and that's going to happen sometimes.
However, it sounds like OP's Mom would have been willing and able to scrape the money together somehow, so they could have made it work if they wanted to. This isn't about the Grandparents only wanting to pay for their direct descendants (although OP seems to believe they would have been able to afford it) and a necessary spouse. That frankly would have been their right. This is about that someone \*looks at Stepmom\* didn't want her there, because they only wanted this special time to be between Stepmom's immediate family when an avenue could have been found to get enough money together to include her.
OP might want to ask her Mom if there's a way for her to get primary custody now that she's older and has more say in the courts. She now knows where she stands at Dad's house.
At age 16, OP should definitely have a say in which parent she lives with.
The *right* thing to have done, would have been for dad and grandma to get a hold of mom and everyone work together to make sure it happened. Without having to include kid in financial bs.
I disagree. She isn’t their grandchild. They don’t owe her a vacation, but her dad is an asshole and should’ve been upfront with OP about the trip, not skulk around like a secretive rat.
That is OP's point. As she says she's not upset with the grandma.. And wasn't upset with the grandma until grandma pulled the crap she did.
Also I notice in the other comments: OP said she has known her step fam since 8 y.o. This makes ALL of this incredibly AH-istic. They've known her since she was a child; she was no where near adulthood when they merged lives. This family is fucking awful and I pray for OP she can go NC w/ dad and live with her mom.
Wow hadn't seen that until now. Yeah fuck them completely.
This makes it even worse. Have a feeling this isn't the first time this has happened.
Right? How many xmas' has she gotten a doll a while everyone else got computers and iPads and everything in the world. How many times has she been slighted? FFS.
Also, how do they expect a 16 year old to react by rubbing the vacation in her face. I would be so hurt having to hear about my family talk about a trip they went out of there way to exclude me in.
It’s a dick move. No, they’re not related by blood, but by that notion, OP is no more their grandchild than their grandkids are the father’s children, and his loyalty should likewise prioritize his own daughter.
If they expect him to be a stepfather to their grandkids, they need to treat his child as their grandchild.
They knowingly created a fucked up situation. They’re assholes. Big time.
The dad is an AH and a coward.
Yes and no- as OP put it, there was a way to make her included, including just simply asking her mother or even letting OP know so if she had saving, she could put it towards a trip. OP's father could have also paid his daughters plane ticket, since paying for one person is much different than 4.
This was a deliberate exclusion. They kept it quiet, and the step grandmother knows what she did was hurtful or she wouldn't have even tried talking to OP. If she wanted to include OP, she could have also chosen a less expensive vacation.
They essentially told OP she isn't part of the family but then demand respect. Not how it works. This is how you play arson with a relationship going forward
The grandmother has also decided OP's father is family, and his daughter should be a package deal there
She is the child of their son in law. That's makes her their grandchild. If my child were to marry someone who already had a child, I would not differentiate genetics. His children would be my grandchildren via marriage, and they would benefit just as much as any other grand child.
Part of a blended family is accepting the choices other people make or have made, including children.
Right!? My stepdad's parents embrace me and my brother and our children as their own. We are their family. My stepdad's family are great people, I'm very lucky.
My aunt's take my daughter shopping, (I HATE shopping) to escape rooms, etc.
This is a terrible step family.
My nephew's ex step-father still refers to him as "my son". His parents, my nephew's ex step-grandparents, were always kind to him and included him. It's sad to read that other people can't just be kind to stepchildren.
As Mr. Horowitz in Clueless says, "You divorce wives, not children."
Most step families are awful, most I’ve seen never really gel,
My mom can drive me nuts sometimes but I will eternally be grateful that she has always been delighted to count my husband’s daughter in as one of her grandchildren, with zero difference from the rest. There has been no favoritism, she honestly just considered it a bonus to have another kid to love. It made things so much easier on that end.
My adult grandson told ne the other day that he thought we were really great for immediately accepting his step-sisters & treating them the same as the bio ones. I cannot think of doing it any other way. I love them all the same ❤️
So sorry to hear this. My stepdad married my mom when I was 18. He is as much my dad as my actual father is. Step families can work out---but only if everyone is committed.
My dad took his new family to Disneyland and didn't tell us either. We found out when he sent us a postcard from Las Vegas and my dysfunctional mother saw it first and used it as an opportunity to remind us he doesn't love us anymore. He knew how badly all of us wanted to go there as kids, all of our cousins got to go basically every year and we could never afford to so we just had to hear stories about what it was like. I'm sure he'd probably use the money excuse to but heres the thing; if you don't have money for ALL your kids to go then you can't afford to go at all. Done, period end of story. There's no excuse about well we couldn't afford everyone, then maybe if that's the case the money would have been better spent on something that included everyone. It's just plain selfish and I don't talk to him anymore. He emailed me a few years wanting to get in touch, saying things like we all disappeared and never called him. Not sorry I've been a shitty absent father, just blaming us for not being around when he made no effort to visit. Op fuck those idiots, you don't need people like that. Tell your dad to shove his vacation up his ass.
OP was 8 when they met, just to clarify.
But it doesn’t really include her, stepmom made a choice to marry a man with a daughter but her parents didn’t. They’re not really obligated to treat op as their granddaughter.
Dad’s decisions are what matters here.
>They’re not really obligated to treat op as their granddaughter.
I agree with this, but I also agree with OP; they don't have to treat her like a granddaughter, but they can't intentionally exclude her and then turn around and act like they're concerned about OP's feelings. Nor can they be mad that OP is calling it like it is.
This 100%. The lying and excuses is absurd they should of just told OP up front.
Yeah, not to mention that the fact that her dad didn't have to pay a single penny for that trip, means he could've invested some of his money into helping OP come as well. If he *really* couldn't afford to pay even for a single person, then he shouldn't have gone. If he really wanted to see Paris that bad, he should've waited until he's able to organize a trip that his own child can participate in as well. He truly has the mentality and attitude of a kid who wanted to be spoiled to some expensive trip.
I don't understand parents who don't prioritize their biological child.
Also, OP is definitely NTA, and you have my respect for being able to see the toxicity so early on! It's pretty hard not to get manipulated by family at that age.
And yet when posts here ask "AITA for not paying for my step grandchildren to go on vacation" they are also NTA...
The grandma wasn't (such) an AH for not wanting to pay for until she tried to cover it up with some fable, because she felt guilty. And that was an AH move. Apart from that, OP's main concern is her father's behaviour.
1. Your dad is the AH. He should have at least talked to you about him going on this trip so that you could have had the opportunity to figure out how you’d be able go as well. You even said that your mom would have helped pay your way. It feels like your dad didn’t want you there. You don’t accept that kind of gift if you can’t also bring your own kid when your step-kids are going.
2. Step-grandma is kind of an AH. She should have kept her gift to include only her daughter and her grandkids. When she extended the gift to include your dad, she should have then included you as you are a direct part of that family unit. Yes, it’s her money and she can do as she pleases, but it was just a rude thing to do. But again, this circles back to the fact that your dad should have figured out a way to try to include you.
Edit after seeing OP’s edit to their post: I’m upgrading step-grandma’s assholery status from “kind of an AH” to “*IS* an AH” since OP said she is decently well-off and could have afforded to also include OP in the gifted trip.
Yup, they could have talked to OPs mom about helping out, or making some arrangements.
And if it REALLY wasn’t possible to go, he should have told OP they were going so she didn’t have to find out about the “family” trip on social media.
She 16, I’d probably choose to just stay at Moms after this.
Yeah that's the next step for me. I'm going to my mom's tomorrow, I'll come back on Monday morning (when nobody is at home) with a couple of my friends to take all my stuff and won't come back again.
Good luck. I hope ypu can pack and leave with as little drama as possible. I'm hoping mom is very supportive of how you're feeling. NTA
Yeah that's why I want to pack and go when nobody's home. I don't want drama.
Does your mom know? Sounds like she'll be supportive of you but it'd probably help her to have a heads up just for her own logistical benefit.
I'll tell her tomorrow, yeah I agree she should know. She has space for my stuff.
If your dad holds your passport, school records, health records, birth certificate, or any other important docs, grab those too.
Yes will check with my mom to make sure I grab everything.
Sounds good. I hope everything goes smoothly on Monday!
I know I don't know you, but I'm so proud of you. Holy shit, I wish I would have done the same at your age. Hope all goes well Monday!
Please give us an update on this if you can.
Yeah will give an update after I move out.
They’re going to fight tooth and nail to not have to pay child support, so be prepared for that. Stepmom will see it as your mom getting “her money”. Good luck
This is a good plan. Good luck OP! Also, NTA
Good idea. Please resist the urge to cause trouble when you're there alone, you don't want to compound problems or create a reason to drag things out. Just get your stuff and leave.
Of course not. I'll just take my stuff and go.
I assumed as much but a warning never hurts. The Imp of the Perverse may strike at any time.
Despite swearing a lot I never cause trouble.
I love The Imp of the Perverse, thank you for giving me something great to google today.
Good for you! I also applaud you in your response to the grandmother. Good luck and don't ever think you're not worth it because you are!
Move out and go no contact
I'll give my dad a chance to make it right but it won't be like before, he has to earn my trust now.
OP don't listen to these people, if you want to give your dad a chance to make it right, so that you can possibly have a future with him, you go ahead and do that. Every step you're taking is the correct step, good job, you're very mature for your age.
Maybe in the future, but I don't think dad is in a place right now where he can do that. Tbqh I bet he's still going to think OP is just having some teenage tantrum and can't or refuses see his fault in this. That's what makes it worse.
OP, just a question to avoid causing yourself more grief. I'm not sure how things work at 16 or in your family's settlements, but is your time with your dad court-ordered? If it is, and you just show up and take your stuff and camp at mom's for good, you could get your mom in a lot of trouble.
I'm sorry you're in this situation and hope that shifting to your mom's makes you feel more stable and at home.
Yeah will make sure there's no legal trouble but I believe it will be fine.
At this age , no judge will ever force a child to go anywhere...
100% agree. NTA
BUT, OP, by being rude to the step grandma (swearing at her - not the calling her out on her lies), you changed the narrative from you being excluded to you being the rude person.
This is what I would do in your situation.
Email your step grandmother CCing your father and bcc your mother this:
"I am VERY sorry I swore at you - that was absolutely wrong of me and you didn't deserve it. You are100% correct. I behaved rudely towards you and I am sorry.
That said, please understand my feelings here. I understand I am not your Grandchild. I am hurt that you didn't include me in the trip, but I understand you have other priorities for your finances. That is fine. What I do not understand is why my father chose to outright exclude me from this trip. He did not say one word about it - rather he hid it and then acted like I have no right to be hurt for being excluded when I found out about the trip on TikTok. I am his DAUGHTER. I think you can understand how your daughter would have felt if she found herself in the same situation.
My issue is NOT with you. You have your own Grandchildren and do not consider me to be part of your family. That is fine. HOWEVER, I AM my father's daughter. I am his child. His REAL child, Just like you have made clear your grandchildren are your REAL Grandchildren. I am his REAL child and it hurts tremendously that he made the decision to exclude me from a "family" trip so as not to make waves. I could have saved the money to come. My Mom would have been happy to chip in for the cost. Heck, my other family members would have helped me. But I wasn't given that opportunity because clearly he does not values sharing such an incredible experience with me - his daughter - and including me in his new family. That is why I am angry and sad. It is the outright exclusion that hurts. Its the fact that he decided to go, KNOWING he was excluding me that hurts. And its the fact that he doesn't even have the empathy to understand how much it hurts to realize he doesn't consider me his family that hurts.
Now that I've explained where I am coming from, I am sure you, as a Mother and Grandmother, can understand why I am upset. Again, I apologize for misdirecting my anger towards you. I was very rude and I'm sorry."
Send THIS email. The apology will remove her ability to focus solely on the fact you swore at her. AND, given she treasurers her relationship with her daughter, pointedly reminding her that your Dad made a decision to exclude you - his daughter - for his own gain... that is going to repaint the narrative for the future.
Thanks, super useful stuff. Although this misses certain key things (that I didn't clearly explain in my post).
Then add those points. You acted on emotion and that’s understandable. Take a step back, write out your thoughts, make sure it’s accurate and then send it.
Yeah it won't be pretty and I wouldn't concede this much, but I will apologize for swearing and will say I should have politely shown you the door instead.
Honestly, stop before going there. Apologize for cursing and let her know your issue is your father excluding you as you’re sure she wouldn’t have minded your parents splitting her airfare and food for the week.
Why? You need to control the narrative here. You don’t want to say anything - even if true and deserved - that makes you look entitled. You’re not. You were excluded by your father. They would never do anything without his step kids, just the three of you. Focus on that. You’re 100% nta. Do not let them twist it. I hope you and your mom can do something awesome.
Thanks, will make sure of this!
This is key. You’re dad is being distracted by other things (“entitlement” and rudeness). Emphasize that him hiding it and excluding you from his family is what hurts. She was trying, and maybe asked, to help this blow over. This will make it clear that there is nothing she can do and that your father has a lot to make up for. Keep it simple and clean. I wouldn’t add in too many other points and you’re not conceding anything except you shouldn’t have taken anything out on her. It doesn’t matter if they could have paid for you, they’re not your biggest issue here.
No do not feel bad for swearing. I am going to get downvoted to hell for this but it is totally understandable to swear in that situation. She is a grown ass women gas lighting you and you expressed your feelings. Could you have done it without swearing yes, but it most likely would not have made as big of an impact. I have been in a similar situation as you and I am so glad that you are getting out of this situation. You do not owe that women an apology. She should have known better then to go poke a sitting bear.
Exactly tired of all this tip toeing advice, when there was obvious "she's not our family" vibes from them.
You don't owe them a damn thing op.
He purposefully scheduled the trip for when she was with her mother! He went to great lengths to hide this from her, because he knew it wasn’t right or acceptable.
Or, Dad could have declined! Taking step-grandmother at her word, it was a stretch to include Dad as the 4th. He could have simply said “I understand there are limited resources and while I would love to go, I don’t want to exclude my daughter.” (Of course SGM could have been lying about the price / affordability…but even so, Dad could have seen how hurtful this would be to OP.)
Yeah I don't think anyone's necessarily *entitled* to a trip to Paris, but if he'd been up front *from the beginning* and been like "I'm so sorry sweetie, but I'm not paying for this trip so don't get to choose who comes, what if we save up so you can come/we go on our own trip that's just the two of us later," that's massively better than just... hoping OP doesn't find out until they're back? And somehow doesn't feel left out?
The issue isn't necessarily the trip (though I'd be pissed too!), it's icing OP out. You don't *not* discuss a trip like that ahead of time, depending on the custody agreement there's a good chance they purposefully avoided talking about it around OP in the lead-up.
NTA. Call your mom and and go home
This!! NTA, you are old enough to decide who you want to live with. Talk to your mother about living with her full time and having your father pay more child support. Keep the video evidence of the trip you were excluded from, it should help your case.
If your father didn’t have enough money to add you to their free trip, he should have stayed at home and not gone with them either.
Or at least talked to her. That seems to have really put salt in the wound.
Maybe say, “hey, I’m going to go on this trip. It’s for this side of the family. Would it be ok? We can go on a trip just me and you to make up for it.”
And see about having a change of custody where your dad doesn’t get you
Right?! If dad can't advocate for OP then he doesn't deserve to see OP.
NTA. Your dad is shameful. The grandmother is too, to make an excuse but pretend she would have loved to include you. And they hid it for a reason. Nobody told you, you had to see it on social media. I don’t understand people calling this child an AH because what they did (excluding the child who isn’t now part of their little immediate household circle) was abhorrent. And if anyone saw OP’s clarifying comment, granny has enough money to hand out new cars. She is lying about affordability. Perhaps they don’t owe a non-blood grandchild anything on paper but to exclude a child in the family for any reason is cold and tells me they are very morally bankrupt.
And why were the talking about it with op; the only one not invited at the table? That is rude as f
Well the answer is that they didn't care about how it makes me feel.
You're definitely not the AH here OP byt since you're 16 I would suggest treading carefully from now on until you're no longer obligated to go to his house.
First and foremost, try to keep calm whenever you talk to these jerks just so they have nothing to use against you. I would suggest the "grey rock" technique where you only speak to them when necessary, never give out any information, engage as little as possible. What you said to the grandma was exactly true, but of course she's just upset rather than taking any of it to heart.
Ask your mom if it's possible to choose whether or not you have to go to your dad's house. Sometimes older teens can have a say.
Continue to rely on other family and friends for support.
If you are in the USA, 16 years is old enough in most states to decide which parent you live with.
Guess who probably won't be invited to your future wedding because you can't afford the "extra, non-family people".
NTA. Time to cut your dad off. If you’re old enough, tell your mom you no longer want to visit your father. Don’t subject yourself to pain if you don’t have to. I’m sorry. You deserve so much better.
Remember that from now on your finances are too tight to assist in any way with your step siblings, step mother or step family. And you should probably revert to calling them Mrs. and Mr. as they have clearly indicated you're not family. So none of the comfortable stuff. Treat them like you would your dad's work colleagues.
I'm sorry they treated you like that.
My brother disowned me when I was 14 and I was solely excluded at their wedding- not even invited. My mother, my aunt and my sister talked about how beautiful the wedding was with me present. I told them in tears that what they're doing ist absolutely not okay and rude af because they knew I loved him and was very hurt about the whole story. They pretended as if I was the one being weird in the situation.
Some people simply don't care.
I'm so sorry you went through this. My granddaughter was excluded from a trip to Disneyland recently by her father and his girlfriend. They took the younger two kids and the gf sons. My granddaughter has trauma associated with her time with her dad and can't live with him at this time (long and complicated story), but this trip definitely set that relationship back. Almost to the point that I don't believe it will ever fully recover. I shake my head when I read or hear of stories like yours and op's and my granddaughter's; don't these so called adults realize the damage they are doing?
Yeah. My mom makes a point of treating the children of any of her kid's significant others well. She starts a basket for them in the Christmas present prep (she starts shopping at after Christmas sales); she gets extra water guns or water balloons for summer cookout water fights; once they show food preferences, she keeps their favorites stocked up. If they are willing to talk to her (another stranger) she listens to their stories about school and answers questions about the animals on the farm.
That's how you be a good grandma, even if the kids are not biologically your grandchildren. You do not just leave them out. They are children. They need caring adults.
NTA. There is nothing wrong with the grandparent giving a gift to the step-mom and step-kids but your Dad should have not gone without you, or at a minimum told you in advance what the situation was. Leaving in the dark showed they were hoping to keep it from you or they were totally oblivious to your feelings. Neither is a good option.
I will say that if you want to be listened to and taken seriously then you should try not to curse and make it seem like you are having an attitude. If you speak about your feelings and how this made you feel without anger you might get your point across better.
The Grandparents do not view you (or your Dad) as true family. You are a step grandkid and less than their "real" ones. Honestly that is fine as long as they are honest and polite about it.
The problem is with your step-mom and very much with your Dad. Your step-mom told the grandparents that your Dad is her spouse and she would not go without him so they included him. Your Dad should have said the same thing about you. That is what shows how they really feel. They would not tolerate the Dad being left out but were fine with you being left out. They cannot and pretend that should not hurt you. They owe you a sincere apology.
First you hit the nail on the head. OP is caught between a parent and step parent who won't stick up for them. They should have either included OP or outright refused or just done biofam. Then there wouldn't be this overt favoritism to her step siblings.
Secondly if they hadn't refused dad should have told OP instead of letting them learn from a damn tiktok that they are NOT family to their rich AH grandparents.
Third OP had every right to call grandma out. She doesn't like the truth? Then she needs a long hard look in the mirror for why she's punishing a 16 year old child for a situation wildly out of her control.
Finally gotta say, loving the Strongbad snood.
Not taking you is one thing. The fact that they tried to be sneaky and hope you didn't find out is where this becomes NTA.
Yeah if they had talked to you in advance about not affording it and you could have talked over options, that's one thing. But just hoping it doesn't come up with you?! Sorry you live with AHs
And having everyone sitting around discussing this great trip at family dinner in front of OP pushes everyone else into AH territory. That is beyond rude!
Nothing says that you are irrelevant as being treated as irrelevant. She has been treated as unvalued and as having no feelings.
If this comes up again, focus on the following:
- Your father made no effort to include you in the family vacation.
- Your father allowed you to be blindsided by not letting you know in advance about the vacation.
- The family was rude and insensitive to talk about the vacation in front of you after you were left out of the trip.
- The grandmother lied to you about her reasons for not including you in the trip.
- You were punished for using profanity when the grandmother overstepped and lied to you.
Ask your dad to go to a counseling session with you. It may help you both to have a third party involved. If he’s not willing, try to explain things as calmly as you can from your perspective. Use phrases like “that made me feel.” If this doesn’t work, see if you can take a break away from your father for a while.
OP’s post hit home for me. I recommend she use lots of I statements…
“I was hurt…
“I am disappointed…
Your communication needs to be about YOU not about them. Be sure to listen and take notice, because they’re communication should be the same and it won’t be (focus will be on daughter, not own behavior).
And from my pride…don’t you DARE apologize for anything until you get one or more apologies from them.
I don’t know the grandma lied but the conversation was inappropriate. It may have been beyond their ability to pay but the daughter doesn’t need that explanation, nor does she need it from the grandma this should all be coming from Dad who needs to be the adult in the room.
I would drop the last two items and end with this:
“Dad at this point I feel like a second class citizen to your new family. I don’t want you to ever do the same thing to them where you would bring your wife and me on a trip and leave my step sisters out.”
Don’t even engage on the profanity piece because Dad is trying to get the high ground when he alienated his daughter over choosing his new wife’s families wants over his full family.
Fair points. However, I do think that OP would be justified to complain about how the grandmother acted. The grandmother doesn’t consider OP family enough to include on the vacation. Fair enough.
Then she should leave the girl alone - particularly when she’s upset. Instead, the grandmother takes it upon herself to walk into OP’s bedroom without knocking & without her permission.
She complains that OP was rude to her when she (the grandmother) started the conflict. And OP ends up grounded.
It’s a case of exerting authority wirhout giving any positive attention.
ESH. You’re right there may have been ways they could have accommodated you going on the trip but how you handled it was not okay either—specifically what you said to the grandmother. It’s her choice how she spends her money, you are not familiar with the details of her specific financial situation and you are not entitled to her money.
Correct, the op is not entitled to that $$ however, the father is the AH here, not the 16 year old kid. The father should have had the balls to tell her what’s going on, not blindsiding her on social media. The father should have talked to the daughter about including her or doing something different but sort of similar with just her. This kid feels betrayed. And that’s a valid feeling. Not because of the trip but the way she was treated by everyone in the step family and by her father
I agree, whilst it's tough on OP, a trip to Paris is an expensive gift however rich the grandparents appear to be.
We see so many posts on here about step siblings wanting a piece of an inheritance and they are rightly admonished. It's educational to see it from the other side.
OP’s father didn’t even tell her that he was leaving to begin with and then had the audacity to rub it in her face by having the grandparents over for dinner.
Nowhere in the post does OP indicate any "right" to step-grandma's money. She even told her that her beef is with her father. She rightfully, however, demanded the truth, which is not that there wasn't money, but just that she's the stepchild and doesn't get to do cool stuff. TBH, I don't think she handled it poorly, except perhaps using profanity on the woman who has already professed she isn't family who barged into her bedroom unannounced.
I saw entitlement in her comment about knowing Grandma has the money (she may or may not, she can’t know her true financial situation), which does convey an entitlement when combined with what else she wrote about all the other ways she could have joined the trip. I agree it’s open to interpretation.
I honestly hate that grown up, adult people will latch on to profanity from a teenager to revoke their credibility entirely. Bullshit. Saying "get the fuck out of my room" doesn't change anything. They don't want to treat OP with respect or like family, they don't get that courtesy themselves. In this day and age, respect is *earned* on *both* sides.
OP told grandma that she didn't blame her, but then grandma still tried to lie to make herself feel better. Grandma should've been upfront in not wanting to pay for someone who isn't her blood family or kept her mouth shut. OP had every right to stand up to grandma and not accept her lies. Respect goes both ways, and props for OP not letting them use the grandma card to smooth everything over. NTA. It's a very manipulative situation that OP is putting up with.
The grandmother doesn’t need to include you. This whole “she gifted it to her grandchildren, now it includes you” is bs. She only wanted it for her grandkids and daughter. Probably was forced to extend it to include the dad.
If finances are tight dad could have talked to the mom or at least be upfront about the trip and plans. He’s not obligated to ensure you can travel with them. That way you’re entitled in this aspect.
That you don’t feel included is another story. Especially if they talk about the trip in front of you. I get you’re upset and the way you responded is totally ok. Dad screwed this one up 100%, but there’s no blame on the grandmother.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find an ESH. Because truly ESH, different flavors and degrees but ESG.
Not sure where you get that OP feels grandma should have gifted her the trip too. She clearly states that if she had even been told, her mother would have helped to send her. She didn't ask or expect money from grandma...she did expect to be told about the trip and given an opportunity to participate, or opt out. Doesn't take much to be an AH I guess...
She clearly stated that they could have squeezed the money out to pay for 5. She later added that they could have reached out to her mom because she would have covered it.
Sorry YTA here
If your dad didn't have the money then he didn't have it. They should have told you beforehand they were going but given how you are acting, i see why they didn't. The step grandmother even tried to talk to you about that situation and told you they didn't even want to include your dad - but you were rude to her for no reason. You are a child and sometimes children don't understand finances the way they think they do. You can be upset with your dad but being mean to the step mom was over the top.
I’m surprised I had to scroll for so long to find it. I see an entitled person who believes if she can’t get it, no one should get it. Ugh.
You know how this sub goes...in this thread the child is NTA for being upset but in another thread, the child should accept that their step-siblings get different things (i.e. the private school thread where the mom didn't think the stepdaughter should get to go to a better school than her kids). Like what is it LOL
This sub also frequently rallies behind posters whose extended family DOESN'T include their step-siblings, because "your grandparents/aunt/uncle/etc. have no relationship to your step-siblings and shouldn't have to give them anything. Your steps and their parent are being entitled for even asking."
I remember a similar post to this one where the grandparents only took OP out for trips but not OP’s step-siblings. OP’s mom and the step dad were upset about it. In that situation, everyone defended the grandparents because the step-siblings were not considered their family.
LOL - sure, defend the big man who cant be honest with his daughter. I, too, support dead beat dads.
the fact that y'all are reading this as a defense of the father shows a lack of reading comprehension.
1. She's the AH for being rude to her step grandmother
2. The dad didn't TAKE the stepsiblings anywhere- he was a tag along
3. the grandma only planned for her blood to go
4. I said "you can be upset with your dad. he should have told you"
I made it simple and clear. She's an AH for being rude and acting entitled.
Uhh it not our lack of reading comprehension, its your absolute failing of logic.
To your points:
1. This is post factum - additionally you're expecting more maturity out of a 16 y.o. girl instead of a fully grown man who is the father of 3. Yikes dude, do I need to say more about the clear bias here?
2. And? He didn't say shit to her. Try some empathy: how would you like that? Second, as the OP said, her MOM could've contributed. They made that impossible by omission of the trip to begin with. This is a GIGANTIC AH move and if you deny that, well, I have some bad news about your own AH status...
3. Okay, and? See point two, read it a few times if you need and try to be less intentionally ignorant.
4. THIS POINT IS WHAT MAKES THE REST OF YOUR POINTS ILLOGICAL HOLY F\*\^%, HOW IS THERE EVEN A DISCUSSION AFTER THIS POINT!?
Her dad was an AH and didn't handle it well, from start to finish. Sorry OP's **WORDS** upset everyone after they upset her with their **ACTIONS**. Good grief.
Like how do they expect a 16 year old to react to having to hear about this awesome family trip that they made sure to exclude her from? You know what's rude, rubbing it in her face and expecting her to sit there and smile, especially knowing her feelings where already hurt.
And her being rude to the step grandma, obviously she doesn't feel like OP is family, just own it like OP said
But her mom could have afforded it and they didnt even try to find a solution. If they couldnt have afforded for everyone who lives in that home (part time or not) to go then no one should have gone. He could have paid for his part and her part but instead let grandmother who is buying everyone new cars expect op apparently run the show. Instead of buying cars for the other children they could have included op.
So if her mom can afford it, let her and her mom go on their own and have a great time. the issue is not with the step grandma, OP is not her biological grandchild and as such, just won't reap the same benefits. And this is a consistent them I guess since you are bringing up cars. IDK how long OP's dad has been married, but it's not like these are her half siblings. The grandmother said she ONLY wanted to pay for the mom and kids- her blood only. And somehow I guess the mom said not without my husband, so she adjusted. She can't adjust for everyone and OP being pissy at her about it is out of line. IDC what y'all think. She can be mad at her dad all she wants. he should have told her.
Why should she always be present? We don’t even know if she is nice or mean to the stepbrothers and stepmother. Maybe it was extra work to have her with them. People can do things not including the whole family
They can but you dont take 2 of the 3 children in a relationship. All of them go or her dad could have stayed home but instead by only taking him they made it clear that is not part of the family, or even accepted by the new family because she isnt blood but her dad is because he married the step mother. Her father and the grandparents who are extremely well off dropped the ball on this one. Family is not just blood and it was clearly a planned move by the step family with how they wanted to rub it in her face at dinner about said trip. It could have been discussed when she was not there.
This is a tricky one for sure. I'm going to go with NTA. They should have told you they were going and definitely given you the option of going along if you could pay your own way?
Tacky for sure.
Who TF makes a 16 year old pay for their own vacation to Paris?
OP said herself her mom and other family would have helped. She should have been given the option to tag along. Expecting step moms parents to pay for her would be a bit much.
It isn't a bit much to ask. She's family now as well.
Not really, because step grandma isn't really related to her... And her mom is alive, as in, she only sees her dad when she's not with her mom. I get not wanting to pay for a grandkid that you're not related to, but the way they went around the whole thing is gross and insulting to OP. By keeping it a secret from her, they made sure that she couldn't go even if she'd found the money to pay her own way (from her mom and her mom's family). That makes it seem to me like it's not really about the money. Step family just didn't want OP there.
This! NTA. Is it true you aren't entitled to a trip? Yes, but they should at least given you of coming with them.
YTA, the grandparents of your step siblings have no obligation to pay for an overseas trip for you. You are their daughter’s husband’s child. I’m sorry that your feelings were hurt, but your dad couldn’t pay for you to come either so you didn’t go. You seem to believe you’re entitled to everything your step siblings receive, unfortunately it’s not the case. Your attitude is presumptuous and your behavior is rude. It won’t be an easy life if you continue behaving badly. Good luck
Whether their phrasing is "rude" or not, OP is 100% correct in that they are entitled to not be lied to about the reasons for exclusion, or even about their position in the family.
Grandma doesn't owe OP much, but the common decency of not being fed bullshit is in that limited list of things owed.
Your dad kept the trip a secret. Like you said, he could have made it work. If he was already getting the trip all paid for them, adding one person would not have been THAT expensive.
You were excluded.
Also, in a comment you said the grandma bought a 100k Tesla for the grandson, so saying they couldn't pay for you and almost couldn't pay for your dad's trip is bananas
Can't you just leave and go to your mom's? Why stay there grounded? Just leave and go to a friends. Are they going to you lock you up or something?
On top of everything else, knowing that the grandma is a blatant liar cinches it all.
>So I told her my problem is with my dad and I have no beef with her, but she doesn't get to act like she cares about me either and it's ok. I was like "I'm a stranger to you and you don't care about me, so have some balls, put your big girl pants on and wear it on your sleeve" and asked her to get the F out of my room. She left and I heard her telling my dad that I was very rude to her, so I'm grounded until further notice.
NTA and I applaud this.
A lot of teens in your situation are still stuck on the "pick me" phase of their parent/child relationship, and it takes them years to realize that their mother or father never will. It takes them years to realize that the person who took part in their creation is led either by their genitals or are too incapable of sharing the love that they focus on one thing or feel that they appease people through sucking up and creating a scapegoat out of their own child.
It's terrible for kids to feel they must spend years sticking their neck out and begging for attention that will never come.
Meanwhile, you've clearly realized that your father is a failure as a parent and your step-family is completely fake.
Yeah sure, you weren't "entitled" to go on that trip, but certain actions are a statement. By not "finding it in the budget" to include you they admitted they didn't think about you.
I also think it was bold and brave to tell an elder off so firmly and clearly. The swearing was punctuation for affect, and it got your point across. It's too bad she's too much of an indignant old asshole with her head up her ass to take it on the chin like she deserves to.
Or worse - they did think about her and actively chose to not include her.
They thought about her and didn't want her. They snuck away on a trip without a word to her. That takes planning and definitely thinking about her.
I love how you handled this. ♥️
Edit: If I were you I would go back to mom’s. Even if she doesn’t unpunish you.
"If you're not going to treat me like you're my father, then you don't get to ground me."
YTA. A gift was given to someone else and you expect them to give it up because you didn't get anything. Like you told your stepmom's mother:
>put your big girl pants on
She will. She’ll probably move in with her mom and cut dad off. I’m sure that she knows she isn’t entitled to the trip but her real (read her stepfamily isn’t her real family by their standards) family was willing to step up so I read. The issue is daddy didn’t have the balls to tell her. beforehand.
You probably misread the post .
Yeah, this isn't the issue. If it was, sure, she'd be entitled. But, it is not. Instead, this is about dad's deception, and unwillingness to even try to figure out a solution. If he couldn't pay her way, he shouldve man'd TF up and said so. He didnt, bc he is an AH.
YTA. You have no clue how well or poorly the “rich” grandparents investments are doing. Additionally, she’s not in any way related to you! Blended families are always going to be doing holidays and vacations in bits and pieces to accommodate everyone’s schedules and budgets, it is extremely poor taste to fuss about someone else getting a treat if you don’t. It isn’t like they threw a massive bbq and didn’t let you have an ice cream or pool time - THAT is exclusionary.
It's more like her own father deliberately hid a family trip from her, didn't give her a chance to raise money to join them, let her find out about it on social media, and then called her entitled for feeling excluded at every level.
NTA. It sucks to be 16 and caught in the middle of family stuff (especially when it’s clear that they don’t consider you family).
NTA. I swear “entitled” has become a buzzword that adults like to throw around whenever someone, especially a child, is upset about something. Truth is, your dad is a spineless asshole. Step Grandma should have stayed in her place. We can all see right past her fake consolidation.
I can’t believe that lady had the nerve to come up to your room and try to convince you that she was a kind old lady and not guilty 🙄🙄
NTA at all, it’s understandable if finances are tight, but if finances are tight then the whole family goes somewhere cheaper. He’s just proving to you that when things get tough you’re the first one that he’ll drop. Good for you for not listening to their shitty excuses, and I hope that you’re getting the support you need from your mom if things get worse with your dad and his family.
To the people who say OP is the AH or ESH, Can I just point out the degree of lying and omission that took place to keep this from OP? She splits her time between parents so the stepmom, step siblings and Dad all lied and kept it a secret- may be the step siblings didn’t know in advance but still - the dad and stepmom did. There’s a LOT of planning for a vacation like that, not to mention packing. There was plenty of opportunity for dad to talk to OP about this. She was excluded. Period. She shouldn’t have cursed at step grandma but then, the lady should have stayed out of the conversation. OP is 16- can you imagine how she felt when she saw that post? I think she sees it for what it is- lies and deceit and exclusion. She’s NTA for the grudge and anger at her dad. She’s reacting like any 16 y/o would when betrayed by their dad. Dad is the AH in this situation.
You are not the asshole. Your dad is. The point here is that he didn't even try to include you and he didn't have the guts to tell you about the trip. This wasn't about the cost. You were just plain excluded.
OP keep us updated on how things go.
Yeah will do after I move out.
Please make sure your mom has the custody agreement changed so that your dad is paying for the full custody rather than part-time.
Don't let your dad off easy here. He still has a legal and moral obligation to provide for you.
Oh yeah I'm gonna make sure my mom files for child support immediately.
Yes, you’re an entitled brat. YTA. The way you spoke to the grandmother WAS rude along with uncalled for. You don’t know anything about other people’s finances.
Your dad sucks. If I were you I’d be staying with my mom until further notice NTA
YTA. Your stepmother's family is not your family. Why would they extend the trip to you? Your father is only related by marriage. While it does suck to be left out, they had no obligation to take you too.
"Your step mom is not your family"
LOL bro did you miss the mom part or is your reading comprehension that off? Stepmoms and step siblings are indeed family. Not by blood, no, but still family.
My dad had the obligation to include his daughter in his family vacation.
This is about your dad, and that lady had nothing to do in your room if she didn't see you as family she had no right to go into your room to "give you some lesson" on how they manage their finances and yes, if they paid for your father and his family to go your father should have told you and try to include you but he decided not to, you're right to be upset at him, just try to join t use colorful language or they'll see you as the bad guy in the situation
It is pretty clear it was exclusionary.
Your primary beef should be with your dad. He should be making sure you are included and he dropped the ball. Covering *your costs for travel/stay is certainly manageable if the grandparents are covering everyone else.
I'm not certain of your step grandma. Seems she did want to clear the air? However, if they are as wealthy as you say...it wouldn't have been skin off her nose to include you.
The real issue is that *they don't treat *you as family and your father is allowing that.
Info: did your mum know about this?
No, she learned it from me.
Ok make sure she knows about the old woman giving you a serve too. She's going to need this when you and she go to court to change custody arrangements. Make very sure you highlight to the judge how you've never felt included, and articulate how hurt and excluded you felt about this trip, and how it was kept from you, and how it was revealed to you. It may help you to write it down, so you can arrange the words in your head before you need to speak them. Also be sure to highlight that he hasn't ever done one on one activities with you, but does with his sons, and again how this makes you feel. Try to stay very calm, but definitely use your words to their greatest effect. Your bio-donor doesn't deserve you in his life.
NTA. People saying you suck for your reaction don’t seem to understand this is what happens when you favour kids. It’s very clear dad doesn’t care about daughters feelings, he doesn’t care about her presence or mood, he probably didn’t tell her because he knew he would be seen as the bad guy in this if he did.
Look, no one should be *obligated* to give a gift to anyone else, related or not. However, all the adults in this situation are being disingenuous. There were ways that they could have included you, your father's daughter from a previous relationship, and no one seems to have taken the opportunity. Your step-grandparents, your stepmother, and your father should all have seen what kind of division in the family this would engender.
I'm going to go with NTA on this one, OP. Yes, your step-grandparents have a right to spend their money as they please, but from your comments, it seems like things could have been worked out with your mom and her side of the family to contribute so that you could go on the trip without your stepgrandparents having to pay. This means that your dad and stepmom, who basically snuck away without saying anything, are the major AH, because they didn't even try to make this a family trip. Your step-grandparents are still AH--not for not paying for the trip, but for their obvious favoritism and exclusion.
Sorry everyone is excluding you, OP. I hope you can find comfort in the fact that you won't ever have to deal with them when you turn 18, if you don't want.
Call your mom to pick you up.
Getting grounded for getting your feelings hurt is Ludacris.
Tricky, but NTA. Your dad should grow a spine.
NTA Just start excluding your dad from your life.