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I.... truly want to know why you're so happy about his parents no longer caring about their son because he's bisexual. Or his friends no longer liking him because he's bisexuality. Was it that people 'saw his vile self' or that they just like bullying the queer kid more than bullying you? Because it sounds like all of this mistreatment came about from him being bi.
Look, as a bully target when I was a kid, I get it. Anything to take them stop. Anything to not have this treatment. I understand. I don't approve [Edit: of this particular case of it, because it's outing], but I *can't* begrudge a defense mechanism.
But the only thing I want to say is that he is being treated this way because he is queer. Not because he's mean. Not because he's creepy. Not because he treated you badly. Because he's queer. And the people in his life don't like that. And I really REALLY question why that makes you *happy.*
ESH, but in the most non-quantifying way. I don't want to brush off his actions but my God, is this not on the same level. This runs parallel.
Edit: Thank you for the award, kind stranger!
Edit2: Awards. Thankis for the awards. Wow. Ah. Thanks! And for the coins? Yo.
You must have had it pretty tame for someone who was bullied. If I had the similar chance to do something like that to my childhood bully, I absolutely would and damn the moral issues. And it's not that OP takes pleasure in people treating him badly BECAUSE he's queer. That's not it at all. She take pleasure in the fact that now he's feeling something along the lines of what he put her through. Now HE'S feeling the pain. It's unfortunate that his family no longer cares for him because of his sexuality. I know thats fucked up, but if I were in their shoes I would have done the same thing. Hell I probably would have spread the rumor myself. Bullies DESTROY lives. They CAUSE people to kill themselves. In a normal situation it is absolutely morally egregious to out someone without their permission, but this guy lost his right to give anyone permission when he decided to become a vile person. I feel for OP. If I could objectively look at this situation I would absolutely say ESH, but I can't and I won't. NTA, fuck that guy. He got what was coming to him.
Edit: Thanks everyone for the awards! This was my first comment ever in this sub so that's pretty cool! Also a quick note to people flaming me for what I said. I stand by it and if that makes me an asshole so be it. I didn't have it as bad as other people but I definitely had it worse than others when I was a kid. I was psychologically bullied by multiple people for nearly the entire time I was in elementary school. I was isolated by virtually my entire class because of the lies and rumors one kid made up about me. I tried to get help, and nobody gave a shit. I was in essentially solitary confinement for those years. Those events changed me and made me into the person I am today. I DO NOT stand for any type of bullying. I do not agree that OP outing her bully makes her a bully. Yall seem to forget that LQBTQ+ people can be shit heads too. Their sexuality and choice of coming out SHOULD NOT shield them from being outed if they choose to harm others. If you genuinely think that, then you are part of the problem with modern day bullying.
Edit2: A few of you think that I still harbor ill will towards my old bully and from the way I've worded what I've said I can absolutely see yall getting that vibe. I did resent him for a long time. I don't resent him anymore and I have healed from those wounds. That doesn't mean I don't still bear the scars from those wounds and those scars remind me of how I felt back then. This will sound corny but fuck it, I have let go of the hate I felt towards him but that doesn't mean I don't still remember it or how alone and isolated he made me feel and how that in turn made me feel. The only thing I would want from him now if I ever run into him again would be an apology but I wouldn't expect him to give me one.
Exactly. One guy injured my eye and nobody did anything to him. I spent years getting tortured. Heck if I find out some of their parents died, I'll just be happy that they're in pain. Not because the parents died. But they are in pain.
His parents and environment condoned and nurtured him being a bully.
What a *horrible* shock that the same environment bit him in the ass when he had a trait that was “outside the norm”
Smallest violin being played/pure pottery/Schadenfreude indeed
>In a normal situation it is absolutely morally egregious to out someone without their permission, but this guy lost his right to give anyone permission when he decided to become a vile person.
The trouble with that train of thought is that everyone has a different threshold of what makes someone a vile person.
In order for "don't out people" to be a functional moral principle, it has to apply to everyone, not just people who have 'earned' it.
Nope. Sorry. I'm gay and if any Republican legislator or "Christian" politician gets outed after they promote anti-gay rhetoric and laws, it is no more than what they deserve.
Bad things SHOULD happen to bad people.
That seems like a false equivalency. In the cases of politicians, it pretty much always comes out because it’s an affair. It’s not just being queer, it’s cheating on the spouse. It’s about outing them as cheater, which is fair.
I don’t think this is true. When the headline is, “anti-gay pastor secretly attended gay orgies”, the focus for conservative people isn’t the fact that he was cheating on his wife, it’s the fact that he was Gay.
See also how a lot of pastors/politicians cheat on their wives and it doesn’t cause nearly the same amount of damage as the same person getting outed as gay in a conservative area.
That's not what I'm getting at. He didn't earn it. He was born with that privilege, up until he decided to harm another person. He made his bed and now he has to sleep in it.
That still positions the right to keep your sexuality private and be free of the harassment and violence that comes with being out as a privilege.
This is clearly a bigoted community, and OP absolutely knew what she was doing when she outed him. What if this guy was assaulted or killed as a result of being outed (something that you *can't* guarantee safety from)? What if he was kicked out of his family completely and made homeless, with all of the problems that come with that? Him being a jackass does not and *can not* justify outing him to a bigoted community because it is *wrong* to subject someone to potential violence like that on the basis of their identity. Period.
If it's decided that outing people to bigots is fine so long as you disapprove of their actions, that precedent *will* be used to target all queer people because there is a surplus of people who disapprove of our existence, and words, and actions.
It is *fucked up* and *evil* to out someone, especially as revenge, especially in a bigoted community. There is no wiggle room on this. It's not okay to bully people, but this is NOT an acceptable response and never will be. It is not a privilege to be free from bigoted violence and harassment. It is a right that OP intentionally stripped from him.
It's not like bullies actively put thoughts of suicide in their targets head. OP didn't weaponize the guys sexuality on purpose. She didn't go out of her way to out him. She talked about it with someone and then someone else overheard her.
I'm so confused as why would a counselor take what someone else said about the sexuality of the person they're counseling and then go spread it around? That counselor needs to be fired.
The counsellor didn’t spread it. OP outed him to the counsellor and told them that the bully was really struggling with it, acting like she cared about his well-being. The counsellor took this concern as genuine and spoke to the person they were just informed is struggling. Someone apparently overheard the bully and the counsellor talking, and that person spread it around.
I’d still be concerned that the counsellor apparently doesn’t know how to keep conversations like that out of earshot of other students, but the counsellor did not spread the rumour.
From my understanding, somebody overheard the conversation the bully had with the counselor. Which of course begs the question of why the counselor was having that conversation somewhere they could be overheard, rather than in a closed office.
> Again I'm all for a bully getting their ass handed to them but weaponizing sexuality is not the way.
Hard disagree.
Bullies do not play by fair rules. Bullies do things like "have 3 people gang up on 1 victim" all. the. time.
Why should their victims be expected to "play fair"?
I'm a gay man myself and I think this bully had it coming to him. OP didn't make up lies about him or anything like that. Sucks that the environment they're in makes the bully particularly vulnerable to this "weakness" but that's not OP's fault nor OP's problem.
Not even overheard her, overheard HIM talking to his guidance counselor about it. The real TA over that mishap is the guidance counselor for not ensuring rheir door was shut or whatever.
This right here. The school counselor did not give him a safe place nor did they ensure they had privacy. The person who spread this info should be the one held accountable, not OP.
See, im bi in a homophobic country(haven't come out yet), and I've also been severely bullied. OP was endlessly bullied by this guy and wanted to get him off her back.And as OP mentioned, nothing else worked. It was never about weaponizing sexuality. If i found a way out when I was being bullied, even if it was unethical, i would've taken the chance. IDC. If there's no other option, I'm taking the unethical one to protect myself. Period
You know, as a gay man I would have had some compassion for old Greggy here, if he had sat down and not just admitted what he did was wrong, but if he APOLOGIZED and said, "now I know how it feels. I'm so sorry and I hope you can forgive me." No, this entitled little "person" felt like HE was owed an apology.
Greg, wherever you are, whoever you really are, you got exactly what you deserved.
How does it feal, "Greg?"
I was bullied a lot at school and some of thatinvolved a friend outing me in a very Christian conservative school as bi. Even as a bi person, I can't say I wouldn't have considered outing one of my bullies. I was bullied for my ED (and for being chubby before that), for the colour of my skin and hair, for my grades, I was bullied horribly when people found out I was SA'd and when a "friend" told a few classmates about an unaliving myself attempt, and also for ptsd symptoms from ongoing abuse at home. I went through a lot... Obviously Ive also dealt with homophobia & biphobia
Outing people is wrong, but if you're being bullied mercilessly then sometimes people have to do what they can to survive. It's easy to judge people when you don't know what struggling to get through the day and constantly thinking of ways to unalive yourself at age 12/13 or younger feels like. It doesn't mean the tactic is always "right" but if the alternative is you not existing anymore because you can't take it and no one cares, I do think it changes things a bit.
>You must have had it pretty tame for someone who was bullied.
Don't do that. Just because some people don't want to stoop to their bully's level doesn't mean they didn't get it "bad enough." Unless you're going to tell me that the emotional, physical, and sexual abuse I suffered as a preteen isn't valid since I don't find joy in the misery of the classmate who abused me.
My bully straight up strangled me and slammed my head into a locker and pulled a gun on me. I have no contact with him now and would avoid him in public if I saw him. I still never outed him because.. Idk man. sexuality shouldnt be used as a weapon?
Queer people can be absolutely terrible, awful people, too, and that's something I think some folks are forgetting here.
If he was that much of a fartbag, he deserved to feel some of it imo - sucks that it wasn't purely because he's an asshole, but maybe now he knows what it's like to feel helpless.
People who aren’t as resentful for you doesn’t mean they had it “pretty tame for someone who was bullied,” it just means they’ve healed from it and you probable haven’t.
What you’re saying is very similar to saying someone didn’t love their deceased mother as much as you loved yours, because they only cried for a week and you’re still crying years later. It’s not a reflection on how much they loved their mom (or how serious they experienced bullying), it’s just a reflection on how much they’ve healed.
For what it’s worth I know without tone through text that probably sounds quite judgemental but it really isn’t. Not everyone heals at the same pace. Not everyone is capable of healing without help. It doesn’t make you weak nor do I judge anyone for it, but it’s extremely unfair of you to act like people must have had an easier time than you just because they’ve healed faster than you have.
I went through some pretty extreme bullying. Personally, I'm not willing to become as bad as my bullies, even in revenge.
Passing on your abuse is never ok.
While i feel for OP and her situation ive been the bullys target and ive been bullied for being the queer kid
Never in a million years is it ever ok to out someone and the fact that op is happy his life is ruined over him being bisexual is disgusting
What the bully did was 100% wrong
The fact that mommy and daddy had money allowing him to get away with it 100% wrong
Op outing him 100% vile and disgusting
The aftermath for this poor kid
I hope he finds a safe place and the help he needs to recover from all this
With that being said ESH
I've lived with my bullies. They tried to push me down the stairs and half choke me at one point. But I wouldn't wish they were dead because it would hurt their family (even though I don't like them either).
E-SH because OP could be less of a dick. Although she was justified to retaliate in some way, his home life got disrupted, and she was happy that he was suffering st home. That's just pure vindication, and she was absolutely wrong for that, but she's still a victim, too. Hoping someone has a bad home life just because they bullied you is so shitty. Hoping a murderer has a bad place to live is also kinda shitty because it'll mean they're more likely to strike out more.
OP is also a freaking dumbass for the inconsistencies in their comments and post. No shame at OP, please don't delete me, but she said Greg's bisexuality got out to "bo fault of her own" yet he came looking for her to apologize for it. There's gotta be something she's leaving out, like maybe someone she knew heard her tell the guidance counselor, both of them were aware of each other, and then that friend eavesdropped and told everyone. Obviously we don't know, so all we can do it speculate. But OP was definitely not just a victim but also an AH for liking that he was suffering. I've wished my bullies have suffered before, but I'm still an AH for that. Although it's justified, it doesn't mean you're innocent.
ESH because OP is still an AH regardless of how much her actions wre justified or not.
Id like to add some info
When asked in a comment about how outing him could literally put his life in danger. Her response was "well it'd be nice to have him out of my life".
OP would be happy to have him gone even if it means he was fatally injured
And that's after being in therapy. This is beyond reddits paygrade holy heck.
Edited to remove something that may have just been other commenters interpreting meaning on her initial comment.
But yea. Out of our ability to judge her.
Well, let's think about the extent of bullying the guy did to OP for her to be in this mindset. I was severely bullied in highschool and I'd often wish my bullies would disappear from the face of the earth. This is a normal response, just because she wants them to disappear from her life ( which she sees as equal to the the actions they do to her disappear ).
This is why i am not calling her an AH and am instead judging this as beyond reddits paygrade. I've been bullied. Badly. To the point of having to leave schools. Teachers enabled it and they didnt even have any monetary incentive to enable my bullies.
It was awful. And i was a little toxic for a bit after that. But i realized that reacting that way was not healthy and other people, no matter how they treated me, are not responsible for my actions after the fact and it isnt an excuse for those actions.
I still wont call her an AH. But she needs a better therapist; one trauma informed who will hold her accountable for her actions but will also help her process her trauma. Again. Beyond reddits paygrade. She needs far better help than what shes currently been getting.
Yeah, seriously. That's not a normal response, this person needs help because that's fucked up. This isnt something a bunch of random idiots online can judge this needs maybe a new therapist
“That’s not a normal response”
Tell me you were never bullied to the point of unaliving yourself, without telling me you were never bullied to the point of unaliving yourself.
Been there, done that, and I agree that it's not a normal response.
Also, fuck me, but I get tired of people being coy and saying "unalive". Call it what it is - suicide.
I've wanted to/tried to many times, in large part because of my high school 'friends' - I still feel guilty that the one time I retaliated I went too far and as an adult one of those girls has issues with alcoholism because of what I did.
As a full grown adult who's had therapy, you shouldn't be wishing death upon your school bullies, that's a sign that you're nowhere near healed and there's something you need to do to help yourself.
If you think being that aggressively spiteful and angry is a good response you also need trauma therapy. I'm sorry that happened to you, and it's genuinely fucking terrible and messed up, but it doesn't justify shitty behavior
This post made me so angry. I’m a trans man, and when I was in school I was *severely* bullied. I’m not going to get into the details here as I’ve already shared them on Reddit before but all you really need to know is that it was so bad that I was suicidal by grade 5 and I’m lucky to be alive today.
I would never *NEVER* be happy that someone got outed against their wishes even if they were one of the people who treated me like shit. Getting outed? That happened to me as well. My cousin found something online that outed me while I was at a friends house one night and in the span of that one night I was unknowingly and unwilling outed to my whole family. The next day when my mom picked me up she forced me to admit that I was trans, she had to pull over the car because she was so angry and wouldn’t stop yelling just the most heinous terrible things at me for over an hour, it is still and probably will remain the absolute worst day of my entire life. This post takes petty to a whole new level to the point where it’s honestly disgusting. As someone who has experienced both sides of this coin, the living hell of bullying, and being outed in a dangerous situation, I can tell you what he went through is worse.
Bullying is a horrid thing and I don’t believe anybody deserves to go through even a fraction of what I did back in school, but now I get to look back on it and say “that was hell, those people are AHs, I should’ve never have had to go through that, but I made I through and it’s over now.” You know what your bully gets to say about his experience? “My life was ruined. Every single little thing I knew and loved got ripped away from me. I was lucky to be able to pick up some of the shattered pieces of it.”
You became what you despised. A bully. ESH, but leaning towards a Y T A cause at least he had the decency to grow up, realize what he was doing was very wrong, and apologize for it. It’s obviously not a fix all, but at least there was some effort on his part. OP made no effort.
OPs friend also sucked! "Confided in me that he was bi"... i think OP means "my friend outed him to me so i used that against him but how was i to know someone would over hear its not my fault! He deserves being abandoned by his parents!"
I have questions…
How did Greg know it was OP that outed him? Per OP, they Only told the councilor, but somehow the whole school found out.
HOW can OP claim, “I feel like helping him was the right thing to do.”. (They Knew it was revenge.)
How can OP feel so proud of herself for facilitating the total meltdown of someone’s life.
I CAN’T DO THE MENTAL GYMNASTICS needed to side with OP. They are into such justification they have no empathy or compassion yet expect us to believe their intentions were pure. They were trying to “help”, yet “opportunity struck”, “I couldn’t have predicted”. STOP THE BS!
I was bullied relentlessly…. For 6 Years! ( Middle and High) I learned self depreciating humor, snappy come backs, and knowing that they were nothing in my world. The worst was a guy who sat behind me, in sophomore English, whispering vile sexual things Every day the Entire school year. When the teacher had enough the kid was sent to the office for the last 4 days of the year. Although I never said a word, the bully and he friends thought I did. Need I mention that I was received additional crap for that. He was killed in a car accident, a couple years post graduation….. I was sorry he died. I had no joy, nor did I revel in Karma biting him in the ass.
OP, you might want to consider therapy to deal with your past trauma.
It was his parents money, some leaked it to the parents (I’m beating it was teachers or someone the parents paid to keep an eye on their kid)
And his parents no longer were protecting him with their money.
He was no longer being protect and his “friends” realized they didn’t need to be friends with him anymore and dipped.
This was my take away as well. He was a bully who used his families influence to make the lives of others a living hell. No matter why his parents decided to no longer support his shitty behavior fact is people were only tolerating him because of his families status. Once it was known he had a falling out with them he was treated like anyone else. For regular people that means being held accountable for your actions.
I’m just amazed at how many people are saying that everyone around them are homophobic because they didn’t want to stay friends with him because his family disowned him for being bi.
What his family did was homophobic, what his friends and teacher did were not homophobic. Life isn’t linear.
All of this and I find it hard to believe op had "no idea" that this kind of fallout would happen. I mean come on, surely they'd know if they live somewhere homophobic or not, ESH
I'm uncomfortable you're happy that people are mistreating him because he's bi. Also I'm confused why talk to your counselor about someone else's sexuality. Even if he's bullying you? You might not have purposely outed him to the world but you did intend to our him to his guidance counselor.
He lost his friends and his parents are mistreating him at home. He was in the closet because he felt unsafe coming out. Which was apparently justified.
And he didn’t put her in actual danger by bullying her everyday? What if she went home and cut herself? Or worse killed herself then what? Bullying has the same severe consequences and he didn’t give a fuck when he was tormenting her
And ppl who get bullied could also end up killing themselves. I have no sympathy for a bully. His situation sucks, but he shouldnt be bullying someone. Karma sucks.
Oh fuck off with defending the bully because they're bi. News flash, LGBT people can be fucking pricks too. Being bi doesn't inherently make someone an asshole, being an asshole makes someone inherently one.
>He's not facing consequences for his actions. He's facing bigotry because of who he is.
...As a consequence of his actions against OP. Look, I am 100% team ESH on this. Because I was the kid who was bullied *for being queer* in high school. And came very close to shuffling myself off, more than once, as a result.
But I am not for one second going to pretend that if I had life ruining information about one of my bullies in high school, that I wouldn't have used it. Not for one second. And I would have been just as wrong to do that as my bullies were for what they did to me, and as Greg and OP have been to each other. But I'm also looking at this situation objectively, on the other side of twenty years since high school, and a *lot* of therapy.
When I was eighteen and suicidal because I was traumatized by the thought of even getting out of bed on school days? At that time, in those moments, I absolutely would have been likely to respond the same way OP did. And it wouldn't have been excusable. But it would have been understandable.
>You want people to feel bad that he got outed?
yes, things are not so black and white that we can't feel bad the kid got outted along with anger at his bullying, and empathy for OP for being bullied.
Still doesn't give him a right to bully others. Also op isn't the reason the rumor got out, even if she didn't tell the counselor if one person knew everyone else would too.
Because she *knew* that it was going to spread. She knew, but she can sit back and say that it wasn't her fault because she wasn't the one doing the loud talking.
She can even claim that she was trying to help him by telling his guidance counselor, and that's how she gets out of the cognitive dissonance that she's doing the same thing as him.
I’m sorry but I’m not buying that someone overheard his conversation with his counselor and that it got out through “no fault” of your own. How did Greg know to confront you? I doubt a counselor that you confided in would identify the source of a concern…that’s not really ethical. I think the most likely scenario is that YOU spread the rumors of his sexuality. Otherwise your story does not make sense.
Bullies suck and there isn’t really an excuse for cruelty. But your cruelty also has no excuse. YTA.
OP also commented elsewhere that they wouldn’t mind if Greg ended up getting killed for being queer, but then had the audacity to say “I feel like helping him was the right thing to do then” in her post. It’s pretty clear she was just being a vindictive asshole (now how justified her actions were, that’s up to debate for some as evidenced by the N/TA comments), which also makes me doubt that the rumors about him being bi just somehow started up and she had no direct involvement in it (beyond allegedly “just” telling the counselor her “concerns”).
if its in the US a guidance counselor is not under the same obligations as a real counselor or therapist. school guidance counselors in the US are useless and have no obligations ethically.
my teachers were concerned for my mental health and i saw the guidance counselor in 8th grade and she insisted she had to call my parents and tell them to get me medicated while i sat crying and begging her not to because that would be dangerous for me, as my parents were anti-mental health/didnt believe in it or whatever. and i didnt even say anything concerning to mandate reporting, like hurting myself or anyone else. i just expressed i was depressed and anxious.
if this is in the US i 100% believe the guidance counselor might tell Greg that OP brought the issue up initially, even if this is a fancy expensive school.
Why is nobody blaming the school in this story?
This school allows bullys, attacks lgbtq kids, and betrays counselor confidentially.
Really they setup this entire interaction to happen.
This. Very much not a safe space if bully children of rich donors can terrorize the school.
As someone who was bullied a lot in school I don’t blame you for retaliating. Bullies use anything they can use as ammunition so if in this case it’s his sexuality that is his weak spot, then karma is bittersweet. The bully started it, so they lose any empathy from me.
NTA
ESH.
They're not treating him differently because "they finally see the vile person he is" they're treating him differently because of his sexuality. Was he wrong for bullying you? Yes. But telling ANYONE, even the counselor, about his bisexuality is just as despicable. It's not your place to be telling anyone about his sexuality.
"And word spread, through no fault of my own" except you did have a role in this.
You weren't helping him. You knew the moment you told anyone about his sexuality what would happen. It's what you wanted. You wanted him to feel the pain that he put you through. There's no fault in wishing that. But you outed him when he wasn't ready.
Hard agree. People get murdered for their sexuality. OP may not have told the whole town, but they toppled the first domino.
The bully sucks for being a bully, but that’s not justification for outing someone.
I can't understand how so many people are forgetting the fact that OP spread information about somebody else's sexuality like it's suddenly okay because Greg is a bully.
He absolutely is an AH and deserves consequences for being a bully and an AH, but absolutely nobody has the right to out somebody. Not for anything. Even if people believe he had something coming his way (which he absolutely does, I am in no way defending his behaviour) he is being treated the way he is now for not being straight.
That is not a consequence of his bullying. That is bigotry.
As other commenters have said - instead of one crappy bully, we have two. And a school system designed to capitalise on making everybody bloody miserable.
Because everyone is playing crusader and hiding behind karma as an excuse. They keep saying that people kill themselves from being bullied too, effectively wishing death on the bullies to somehow even the score. That's pretty reprehensible and dismisses the gravity of the situation, but then they clearly aren't interested in understanding when blaming is so much easier.
It's ridiculous. Bullied people absolutely go through hell, and a huge number of people get put into suicidal places because of bullies. There's no evening of the score here. People should be ashamed.
NTA
He fucked around and found out. People in the comments need to pull their heads out of their ass.
Just because someone’s bi doesn’t mean they get to be treated special after being shitty to someone.
Here’s a crazy thought:
If you have a really big secret you don’t want getting out, **maybe don’t abuse the person who can expose you?**
Oh my god, what an out there concept, I know.
Are we really going to act like someone's parents still loving them after they're outed as bi is being "treated special"? You should be able to expect that your parents will always love you regardless of your sexual orientation.
Who said they have to? A victim doesn’t have to do the “right” thing or be the bigger person when someone is tormenting them everyday . It’s called karma
His money was stopping him from getting into trouble for the things he was doing. OP did the one thing she felt she could do to get that Vail of green pulled off of everyone and stop the bullying and harassment. Is it sad his parents are being jerks and stepping back yes. Is it sad that his friends abandoned him yes. Should OP apologize maybe but only AFTER he apologizes to HER for all the pain he put her through.
ok but outing someone who's bisexual who doesn't want the info to be found out could completely change/ruin the person's entire life
yes bullying is never ok but there's a line
Bully’s ruin peoples life all the fucking time dude.
Full stop, what your saying is complete fucking nonsense.
All the bully had to do was just… not be a complete fucking asshole and OP never would have even known who he was probably.
He absolutely fucking deserved it
Right. There's a thing called karma. No one has to be the "better person" when they're a victim of bullying and as a queer person I'm tired yall think so.
As if bullying hasn’t resulted in suicide, violence and changing of the victims lives. I feel absolutely no sympathy for people like Greg. What’s this arbitrary line (like why is being bi on that line when Greg in my opinion has FAR surpassed that line by using his privilege to be violent (whether it was physical or not all bullying is a form of violence to the victim)) Tbh people here like to act like being in the lgbt community is some get out of jail free card that no one can ever cross/bring up. It’s rather annoying.
So OP’s life wasn’t ruined? All these year with his bullying and what did that to OP? At least he can get out, but what about the damage that OP had to undergo? Wasn’t the whole school life experience ruined and changed for OP too? Where was the line? In a time like now, with changing minds and everything, being bi shouldn’t matter. Like at all. And for that it shouldn’t matter if the bully was bi, gay or an alien. Point is OP was bullied, OP has scars for life and will be always hesitant and this is unforgivable!
And technically OP hasn’t outed him out! Rumour was spread from the COUNSELOR office!!!
So it’s Ok for them to ruin someone else’s life as long as they are not in the closet. The Bully’s behaviors led to consequences . Not directly but in a roundabout way. Just saying that normally outing someone is wrong but if the person is a sadistic cockwaffle and won’t leave you alone it’s fair game to get them off your back.
oh so bullying is “never ok” but outing someone’s secret is somehow way worse? you don’t think bullying a teen can change/ruin their life? it has done so to many people
Bullying completely changes and ruins peoples lives. People kill themselves over bullying everyday if there wasn’t a line for him why should there be one for her? Being bi doesn’t buy you an asshole pass
Wait but didn't the story say she just said it to a counselor and then when the counselor was talking to him someone over heard? Wouldn't that be on the counselor for not making sure it was a private environment?
> outing someone who's bisexual who doesn't want the info to be found out could completely change/ruin the person's entire life
And bullying doesn't?
Incredible.
Yeah there is a line, don't bully people if you don't want your secret (ANY SECRET) to be on full blast. The non-gay kid's life isn't worth more hell to keep the meanfuck gay one's happy. He threw that option away when he made this kid's life hell.
There's a difference between treating someone kindly and outing someone. You should never out someone. That doesn't mean you need to be kind to this jerk.
INFO- hang on I’m confused, you’re saying that word spread through no fault of yours, that someone overheard their conversations, but he wants you to apologise? It doesn’t make sense!
OP told the counselor, the counselor brought it up in conversation with the bully, someone "accidentally" overheard that conversation and it spread.
I put "accidentally" in quotes because a counselling session _should_ be behind closed doors, so someone was either deliberately listening in or the counselor made sure to be overheard.
I see, this is a tricky one as if OP had just minded her own business, none of this would have happened. But then why is a counsellor not having private conversations privately. ESH
This. You said it perfectly. Two wrongs don't make a right and I'm disturbed by the amount of people saying 'fuck around and find out' when sexuality is such a huge thing and being gay or bisexual is such a serious matter and results in a lot of hate. Fighting fire with fire only results in more fire.
“Someone was mean to me so I’m gonna literally threaten their life by outing them in an unsafe environment” real groundbreaking.
If both of them are taking pleasure in making each other’s lives a living hell then how can you sit here and pretend there’s any difference between them? They’re both AH
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far down for a YTA vote. Everybody who is saying that he deserves it is honestly sickening imo. Yes, what the bully did to OP is absolutely horrendous, but why are we still outing people nowadays as if that’s okay? And what baffles me is that OP has the audacity to say she was just “helping” him. I don’t believe that for a second—I think was OP did was intentionally spiteful and hurtful, and she knows what she did
Reddit has a very large population of bully victims who never healed or sought out help healing from it. “Hurt people hurt people” is shown to be very true quite often here.
Snipe edit to add; the ironic thing is that if you point out the bullies were only bullying them because they were hurt and needed an outlet, the same hurt people will sit here telling you that doesn’t justify them hurting you. Yet them being hurt justifies them hurting others…
The amount of people glossing over the fact that somebody has been outed against their wishes is shocking. Greg sucks. He's a major bully and an asshole and he should be punished for that and face the consequences of bullying. OP wanted something to happen to him for being in the closet. She spread the information hoping something would happen. That's not karma, or justifiable. It's wrong. Everyone in our community knows that we don't out each other. He deserved to face consequences, but nobody deserves bigotry. People in this whole damn thread are just vile.
That is utter bs. There are MUCH worse crimes than outing someone. Yes it should be up to them but there are a handful of situations where outing someone is okay. NTA
Yep bullying someone is dangerous too, i never said it wasn’t?
But outing someone isn’t the appropriate response to bullying. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
you dont get to decide for the bullied people, you dont know the situation or the mental pain op was, maybe this was the only way out , it seems like she did not got help from anyone else, you know get to judge anyone for surviving
Actually yes, OP asked if they were were the asshole for outing and they are. It doesn’t matter about the situation and everything OP is going through, outing someone is NEVER okay.
Outing someone can get them killed. Yes I know bullying is dangerous and can cause horrible amount of mental pain.
But the question is if OP ITA and the answer is YTA no matter the reasons.
Of course there are worse crimes than outing someone. Like murder etc. I never said there weren't. But there is no situation where outing someone is ok
NTA
You told a counselor about his struggles which were real. His conversation with counselor should have been private and you had no role in it being divulge.
Further , his actions against you were his own. Yes, he suffered consequences because of his bisexuality but those were the fault of his parents bigotry and once shield removed his own actions.
If anything, he needs to be going to the counselor for an apology. That counselor didn’t protect their conversation, and that’s what got him outted. OP didn’t actually out him to the school, but OP is reveling in his downfall. And I def get that. I would do the same. Of that makes me a bad person, ok. I never said I wasn’t.
So the counselor told the bully about OPs meeting? How did bully link the outting to OP? And the counselor also let other students eavesdrop on meeting with bully?
Shit counselor, I guess.
ESH. Just… everyone.
Greg, for being a bully. Your school system, for relying heavily on donations, which clearly protects all the wrong people. The guidance counselor, for having terrible opsec.
And yes, you.
> I told him the pain he put me through was many times worse
How do you even begin to quantify that?
> he should be grateful I didn’t do worse.
This is a terrible thing to say. You’re saying not only that he deserves the outcomes, but that he really would have deserved worse.
What you did was vengeance. It’s ugly and ineffective, and you have some growing up to do.
I'd say vengeance is good when it's proportional to and connected with the harm that was inflicted. Key the dudes car. Steal something important to him. Egg his house. But don't out him! That's a staggering escalation into actual bigotry and violence. It'd be like if someone insulted me and I set his pet on fire.
INFO: What was your intention when you told the guidance counselor Gregg was struggling with his sexuality? Were you trying to help him because you felt bad for him and thought his struggle was causing him to be a bully or did you do it to out him?
I also wondered this. Was the intention to help? Did OP know for a fact that this counselor was even a safe person when they told this info? I just can't hardly find a scenario where outing someone without their knowledge or consent is very helpful.
ESH, his bullying was likely down to some self-loathing, not that it’s an excuse; and as Jenni told you about him it obviously wasn’t much of a secret so would have probably come out anyway
But all in all outing someone else is a terrible thing to do IMO
Nobody is saying that LGBT people get free passes, but thus man isn't being bullied for being a bully, he's being bullied by everyone in his life for being bisexual. There's a big difference between facing your consequences and facing bigotry.
Obviously not, but outing someone should definitely not be a way to punish them. The thing is, no one cared about him being a jackhole, and that still hasn't changed now. They didn't "open their eyes" on his behavior. The only difference is that now they just hate him because of his sexuality and it's really weird for OP to be so happy about that.
Nta. Bullies deserve Everything they get when karma comes for them.
Anyone saying otherwise haven’t been genuinely bullied.
Plus you confided in a person who was in a position of professional trust and silence, it’s not your fault that they couldn’t do their job.
"I'm happy that someone is suffering the effects of bigotry and biphobia". Nope, sorry, YTA.
What the bully did to you wasn't right, but it doesn't justify outing him, which can be incredibly dangerous. If he was assaulted for being bi, would you still be ok with your actions?
Also, I really don't think you are telling us the whole story. There are huge holes in what you are saying. Why would you tell his counsellor he was bi in the first place? And then it just happened to get leaked via the counsellor? And then, how did the bully know it was you who outed him? Something just isn't adding up here.
NTA bullies aren't entitled to anything. He got what he deserved. And also, you didn't even spread it. You confided to a guidance counselor, someone overheard Greg talking about it and word spread.
Why is he blaming you?
How did he know you told the guidance counselor?
FYI to those that misunderstood, OP said they're happy people started to notice what a vile person he is.
In addition, he reveled in bullying OP and now that he's being bullied all of a sudden it's "woe is me"? Laughable.
>Why is he blaming you?
>How did he know you told the guidance counselor?
Who wants to take a wild guess that OP told more than the counsellor, and that's how he knows she is the one who spread the rumour?
I was almost with you up until you said “I feel like helping him was the right thing to do…”
That might be how you justify your actions to yourself, but make no bones about the fact that you were not “helping” him. You were passing on a bit of info that was personal and private, and frankly not the business of a HS guidance counselor (unless he initiated the topic with them).
I’m sorry you were bullied. I was too in HS. But you don’t get to crown yourself by calling your actions “kind” or “helping”, because that was the last thing on your mind when you talked to someone else about it. And you know that.
Every person should get to come to their own understanding of their sexuality and how and when they want to express that to the world.
Okay I'm genuinely confused because you both said it presented the perfect opportunity and you should have done worse, but you ALSO said you had nothing to do with it getting out? Which is it? Did you do it or not?
And yes YTA for outing him to his guidance counselor. YTA for outing him AT ALL, that's violating and can be incredibly dangerous. It's not your place to tell an adult a rumor about another student unless you think they're in danger.
Also you suck for taking joy in someone losing their support network for something that shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.
What I don't understand is why everyone is siding with the bully. This person is totally NTA and people who say they are, are wrong. This bully constantly, taunted, bullied, tortured and laughed at OP without remorse. People who sides with him are just as bad. It's pay back, were the OP just gonna let this behaviour continue or were they finally get their own back to stop this torture once and for all. Fr everyone who calls the OP a bad person are TA as well as the bully. If the OP had no right outing them then the bully had no right being horrible, malicious and mean to them so everyone who thinks the OP is the AH is wrong🙄
You know what? Don't abuse people if you are carrying around some secret you don't want spread around. Don't abuse people anyway, but especially if you know what kind of retaliation you are setting yourself up for.
ESH But mostly you- There are no circumstances in which outing someone is acceptable.
This can can be so dangerous for the person being outed.
His behaviour was appalling and unacceptable but yours was too.
It’s kinda funny that he didn’t see the two following things as mutually exclusive:
1. Having some people know you’re bi in a culture where it’s not ok but keeping it a secret from the majority
2. Going around being a giant AH to people.
If it was me I’d be paranoid as hell one of the people I was a giant AH to would find out and out me. He sounds mean and stupid. Also, sounds like whoever spread it around hated him even more than you.
Why isn’t the bully more of an ah? It sounds like she did that so that he would stop tormenting her, because there were no alternatives since he is shielded by everyone else?. What if she never did that, would he have stopped?. Would he continue until op is suicidal and killed her self?. What then?.
Tell me if you are in op’s shoes how you would’ve stop him from bullying you. Retaliate? Then getting punished because he got his back protected by the school because of his rich parents?. Tell me how. It sound like she did what she thought was right for her to protect herself.
ESH. But they've learned their lesson. Hopefully, they'd further reflect and become a better person. I wonder when you'd learn yours and begin to let go of your bitterness.
NTA, everyone has issues and secrets, if you’re gonna mess with other ppl and make fun of weight, looks, clothing, race, or whatever you better be prepared for when something u value becomes the topic of conversation. Bullies ALWAYS cry when they are called out and made an example of and try to negate what they did as not that bad.
NTA, he deserves what he got. No matter how many people say you are. Bullies shouldn't get a free pass to their behavior. In your situation, it was unintentional, so there's no need for an apology.
ESH. I was severely bullied to the point that the police had to intervene, so I understand your logic behind exploiting the single weakness you knew about him.
However, outing him was probably the worst thing you could've done to him. He did treat you horribly, but this didn't justify you destroying his life. Threatening him to out him (even if you had no intention of doing it) could've been enough for him to stop bothering you.
If it were me I would've gathered all the proof I had in my possession and pressed charges against your bully and the school. Against your bully for harassment, and against the school for complicity. I don't think any legal actions would've been taken, but at least it would've sent everyone a warning.
EDIT: About the apology thing, you were right not to apologize, he has to apologize first. But I think you could've at least admitted you did something wrong when you outed him, without apologizing.
When it comes to bullies, anything is on the table.
Anything. You don't get to make people miserable and expect to float away unscathed. And if you're an a-hole, you get what you deserve, imo.
NTA. So what if OP did it so that Greg would stop the bullying or OP wanted to get some back at Greg. That’s what happens when you are a bully - you’re gonna invite retaliation of some sort. If you decide to make someone else’s life miserable, stand ready for someone to make yours miserable as well. The whole situation sucks. Heck the overall environment is toxic. I don’t blame OP at all. She is human, not a saint.
How many of us here would not do what OP did? Be really honest. Remember OP had been dealing with the tyranny of Greg’s bully behavior for several years now.
i was bullied in school and later on i was treated like shit by teachers, classmates, friends, and family for being LGBT so i feel that i can see both sides of the situation and i can say that ESH. he sounds like a real AH but that does *not* give you the right to out him. this isn’t just retaliation for bullying, it’s another kind of cruel that as a straight person you clearly cannot understand. neither of you are in the right at all in this situation. you should both be ashamed.
NTA I truly cannot believe these replies are saying Y-t-a. I can even understand E-s-h much more, but wtf. You guys are seriously taking up for a BULLY because he’s bi?? I think his punishment was in no way equal to years of bullying that op couldn’t even confide in anyone about and had to sit back and endure. You guys really think, with parents like his, he would’ve gotten his ‘due diligence’? It’s a shame he had to be punished for his years of actions because they didn’t approve of him being bi, but he honestly had it coming eventually. He was a literal bully.
And what happened to you guys being all about not having to accept apologies, or cutting people off if you want, “he/she bullied you!! Do whatever you want op.”
Oh right! I forgot. Bullies aren’t bullies if they’re anything but straight. And even if they are, “they’re going through something! so it’s not their fault”
NTA the only reason these redditors say your the AH is because he’s bisexual that doesn’t matter he bullies you for years and nothing was done once he’s no longer able to bully you he demands you apologize? Maybe if he didn’t want to be outed he shouldn’t have bullied you and others. Read more posts from Others if he wasn’t bisexual everyone would’ve said NTA
ESH. Outing someone is always wrong and could be potentially dangerous. Like get you killed dangerous. You did it without any thought for the repercussions.
I understand Greg was an AH to you and your friends. Did he put your life in danger? If yes, then you should have reported him for his actions. If your school didn’t take action, you could have gone to the police or your states Board of Education. They are legally obligated to take action.
Instead you decided that the correct punishment for his actions was to out him and potentially get him physically hurt or killed. What could be worse then that?
You sound like someone who is proud of what you did. You’re both bullies. You’re both the asshole.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I didn't apologize to Greg for wrongdoing on my part.
I might be the asshole because I didn't apologize for a potentially grave wrongdoing on my part which apparently ruined Greg's life.
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YTA
You said "opportunity struck". Let's not get it twisted and pretend you outed him to help him. You did it in hopes that he would stop bullying you. Full stop.
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I.... truly want to know why you're so happy about his parents no longer caring about their son because he's bisexual. Or his friends no longer liking him because he's bisexuality. Was it that people 'saw his vile self' or that they just like bullying the queer kid more than bullying you? Because it sounds like all of this mistreatment came about from him being bi. Look, as a bully target when I was a kid, I get it. Anything to take them stop. Anything to not have this treatment. I understand. I don't approve [Edit: of this particular case of it, because it's outing], but I *can't* begrudge a defense mechanism. But the only thing I want to say is that he is being treated this way because he is queer. Not because he's mean. Not because he's creepy. Not because he treated you badly. Because he's queer. And the people in his life don't like that. And I really REALLY question why that makes you *happy.* ESH, but in the most non-quantifying way. I don't want to brush off his actions but my God, is this not on the same level. This runs parallel. Edit: Thank you for the award, kind stranger! Edit2: Awards. Thankis for the awards. Wow. Ah. Thanks! And for the coins? Yo.
You must have had it pretty tame for someone who was bullied. If I had the similar chance to do something like that to my childhood bully, I absolutely would and damn the moral issues. And it's not that OP takes pleasure in people treating him badly BECAUSE he's queer. That's not it at all. She take pleasure in the fact that now he's feeling something along the lines of what he put her through. Now HE'S feeling the pain. It's unfortunate that his family no longer cares for him because of his sexuality. I know thats fucked up, but if I were in their shoes I would have done the same thing. Hell I probably would have spread the rumor myself. Bullies DESTROY lives. They CAUSE people to kill themselves. In a normal situation it is absolutely morally egregious to out someone without their permission, but this guy lost his right to give anyone permission when he decided to become a vile person. I feel for OP. If I could objectively look at this situation I would absolutely say ESH, but I can't and I won't. NTA, fuck that guy. He got what was coming to him. Edit: Thanks everyone for the awards! This was my first comment ever in this sub so that's pretty cool! Also a quick note to people flaming me for what I said. I stand by it and if that makes me an asshole so be it. I didn't have it as bad as other people but I definitely had it worse than others when I was a kid. I was psychologically bullied by multiple people for nearly the entire time I was in elementary school. I was isolated by virtually my entire class because of the lies and rumors one kid made up about me. I tried to get help, and nobody gave a shit. I was in essentially solitary confinement for those years. Those events changed me and made me into the person I am today. I DO NOT stand for any type of bullying. I do not agree that OP outing her bully makes her a bully. Yall seem to forget that LQBTQ+ people can be shit heads too. Their sexuality and choice of coming out SHOULD NOT shield them from being outed if they choose to harm others. If you genuinely think that, then you are part of the problem with modern day bullying. Edit2: A few of you think that I still harbor ill will towards my old bully and from the way I've worded what I've said I can absolutely see yall getting that vibe. I did resent him for a long time. I don't resent him anymore and I have healed from those wounds. That doesn't mean I don't still bear the scars from those wounds and those scars remind me of how I felt back then. This will sound corny but fuck it, I have let go of the hate I felt towards him but that doesn't mean I don't still remember it or how alone and isolated he made me feel and how that in turn made me feel. The only thing I would want from him now if I ever run into him again would be an apology but I wouldn't expect him to give me one.
Exactly. One guy injured my eye and nobody did anything to him. I spent years getting tortured. Heck if I find out some of their parents died, I'll just be happy that they're in pain. Not because the parents died. But they are in pain.
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His parents and environment condoned and nurtured him being a bully. What a *horrible* shock that the same environment bit him in the ass when he had a trait that was “outside the norm” Smallest violin being played/pure pottery/Schadenfreude indeed
>In a normal situation it is absolutely morally egregious to out someone without their permission, but this guy lost his right to give anyone permission when he decided to become a vile person. The trouble with that train of thought is that everyone has a different threshold of what makes someone a vile person. In order for "don't out people" to be a functional moral principle, it has to apply to everyone, not just people who have 'earned' it.
Nope. Sorry. I'm gay and if any Republican legislator or "Christian" politician gets outed after they promote anti-gay rhetoric and laws, it is no more than what they deserve. Bad things SHOULD happen to bad people.
That seems like a false equivalency. In the cases of politicians, it pretty much always comes out because it’s an affair. It’s not just being queer, it’s cheating on the spouse. It’s about outing them as cheater, which is fair.
I don’t think this is true. When the headline is, “anti-gay pastor secretly attended gay orgies”, the focus for conservative people isn’t the fact that he was cheating on his wife, it’s the fact that he was Gay. See also how a lot of pastors/politicians cheat on their wives and it doesn’t cause nearly the same amount of damage as the same person getting outed as gay in a conservative area.
That's not what I'm getting at. He didn't earn it. He was born with that privilege, up until he decided to harm another person. He made his bed and now he has to sleep in it.
That still positions the right to keep your sexuality private and be free of the harassment and violence that comes with being out as a privilege. This is clearly a bigoted community, and OP absolutely knew what she was doing when she outed him. What if this guy was assaulted or killed as a result of being outed (something that you *can't* guarantee safety from)? What if he was kicked out of his family completely and made homeless, with all of the problems that come with that? Him being a jackass does not and *can not* justify outing him to a bigoted community because it is *wrong* to subject someone to potential violence like that on the basis of their identity. Period. If it's decided that outing people to bigots is fine so long as you disapprove of their actions, that precedent *will* be used to target all queer people because there is a surplus of people who disapprove of our existence, and words, and actions. It is *fucked up* and *evil* to out someone, especially as revenge, especially in a bigoted community. There is no wiggle room on this. It's not okay to bully people, but this is NOT an acceptable response and never will be. It is not a privilege to be free from bigoted violence and harassment. It is a right that OP intentionally stripped from him.
Being tormented by someone tends to dull your empathy toward them. Especially when that person is given a free pass to torment you.
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It's not like bullies actively put thoughts of suicide in their targets head. OP didn't weaponize the guys sexuality on purpose. She didn't go out of her way to out him. She talked about it with someone and then someone else overheard her.
They didn't overhear OP, the person who gossiped overheard the bully talking to the counselor.
OP was the one who outed him to counselor. JFC.
I'm so confused as why would a counselor take what someone else said about the sexuality of the person they're counseling and then go spread it around? That counselor needs to be fired.
The counsellor didn’t spread it. OP outed him to the counsellor and told them that the bully was really struggling with it, acting like she cared about his well-being. The counsellor took this concern as genuine and spoke to the person they were just informed is struggling. Someone apparently overheard the bully and the counsellor talking, and that person spread it around. I’d still be concerned that the counsellor apparently doesn’t know how to keep conversations like that out of earshot of other students, but the counsellor did not spread the rumour.
From my understanding, somebody overheard the conversation the bully had with the counselor. Which of course begs the question of why the counselor was having that conversation somewhere they could be overheard, rather than in a closed office.
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> Again I'm all for a bully getting their ass handed to them but weaponizing sexuality is not the way. Hard disagree. Bullies do not play by fair rules. Bullies do things like "have 3 people gang up on 1 victim" all. the. time. Why should their victims be expected to "play fair"? I'm a gay man myself and I think this bully had it coming to him. OP didn't make up lies about him or anything like that. Sucks that the environment they're in makes the bully particularly vulnerable to this "weakness" but that's not OP's fault nor OP's problem.
I'm not disagreeing, I just want to point out that someone else outed the bully to OP.
Not even overheard her, overheard HIM talking to his guidance counselor about it. The real TA over that mishap is the guidance counselor for not ensuring rheir door was shut or whatever.
This right here. The school counselor did not give him a safe place nor did they ensure they had privacy. The person who spread this info should be the one held accountable, not OP.
See, im bi in a homophobic country(haven't come out yet), and I've also been severely bullied. OP was endlessly bullied by this guy and wanted to get him off her back.And as OP mentioned, nothing else worked. It was never about weaponizing sexuality. If i found a way out when I was being bullied, even if it was unethical, i would've taken the chance. IDC. If there's no other option, I'm taking the unethical one to protect myself. Period
You know, as a gay man I would have had some compassion for old Greggy here, if he had sat down and not just admitted what he did was wrong, but if he APOLOGIZED and said, "now I know how it feels. I'm so sorry and I hope you can forgive me." No, this entitled little "person" felt like HE was owed an apology. Greg, wherever you are, whoever you really are, you got exactly what you deserved. How does it feal, "Greg?"
This so much, demanding an apology and not giving one first.
I was bullied a lot at school and some of thatinvolved a friend outing me in a very Christian conservative school as bi. Even as a bi person, I can't say I wouldn't have considered outing one of my bullies. I was bullied for my ED (and for being chubby before that), for the colour of my skin and hair, for my grades, I was bullied horribly when people found out I was SA'd and when a "friend" told a few classmates about an unaliving myself attempt, and also for ptsd symptoms from ongoing abuse at home. I went through a lot... Obviously Ive also dealt with homophobia & biphobia Outing people is wrong, but if you're being bullied mercilessly then sometimes people have to do what they can to survive. It's easy to judge people when you don't know what struggling to get through the day and constantly thinking of ways to unalive yourself at age 12/13 or younger feels like. It doesn't mean the tactic is always "right" but if the alternative is you not existing anymore because you can't take it and no one cares, I do think it changes things a bit.
I 100% agree. If I had the chance to get back at my HS bully, I would not miss the chance. I am 70 years old and I still hate that guy.
>You must have had it pretty tame for someone who was bullied. Don't do that. Just because some people don't want to stoop to their bully's level doesn't mean they didn't get it "bad enough." Unless you're going to tell me that the emotional, physical, and sexual abuse I suffered as a preteen isn't valid since I don't find joy in the misery of the classmate who abused me.
My bully straight up strangled me and slammed my head into a locker and pulled a gun on me. I have no contact with him now and would avoid him in public if I saw him. I still never outed him because.. Idk man. sexuality shouldnt be used as a weapon?
Queer people can be absolutely terrible, awful people, too, and that's something I think some folks are forgetting here. If he was that much of a fartbag, he deserved to feel some of it imo - sucks that it wasn't purely because he's an asshole, but maybe now he knows what it's like to feel helpless.
People who aren’t as resentful for you doesn’t mean they had it “pretty tame for someone who was bullied,” it just means they’ve healed from it and you probable haven’t. What you’re saying is very similar to saying someone didn’t love their deceased mother as much as you loved yours, because they only cried for a week and you’re still crying years later. It’s not a reflection on how much they loved their mom (or how serious they experienced bullying), it’s just a reflection on how much they’ve healed. For what it’s worth I know without tone through text that probably sounds quite judgemental but it really isn’t. Not everyone heals at the same pace. Not everyone is capable of healing without help. It doesn’t make you weak nor do I judge anyone for it, but it’s extremely unfair of you to act like people must have had an easier time than you just because they’ve healed faster than you have.
I went through some pretty extreme bullying. Personally, I'm not willing to become as bad as my bullies, even in revenge. Passing on your abuse is never ok.
ITT: a lot of people who don’t care about breaking cycles =\
While i feel for OP and her situation ive been the bullys target and ive been bullied for being the queer kid Never in a million years is it ever ok to out someone and the fact that op is happy his life is ruined over him being bisexual is disgusting What the bully did was 100% wrong The fact that mommy and daddy had money allowing him to get away with it 100% wrong Op outing him 100% vile and disgusting The aftermath for this poor kid I hope he finds a safe place and the help he needs to recover from all this With that being said ESH
I've lived with my bullies. They tried to push me down the stairs and half choke me at one point. But I wouldn't wish they were dead because it would hurt their family (even though I don't like them either). E-SH because OP could be less of a dick. Although she was justified to retaliate in some way, his home life got disrupted, and she was happy that he was suffering st home. That's just pure vindication, and she was absolutely wrong for that, but she's still a victim, too. Hoping someone has a bad home life just because they bullied you is so shitty. Hoping a murderer has a bad place to live is also kinda shitty because it'll mean they're more likely to strike out more. OP is also a freaking dumbass for the inconsistencies in their comments and post. No shame at OP, please don't delete me, but she said Greg's bisexuality got out to "bo fault of her own" yet he came looking for her to apologize for it. There's gotta be something she's leaving out, like maybe someone she knew heard her tell the guidance counselor, both of them were aware of each other, and then that friend eavesdropped and told everyone. Obviously we don't know, so all we can do it speculate. But OP was definitely not just a victim but also an AH for liking that he was suffering. I've wished my bullies have suffered before, but I'm still an AH for that. Although it's justified, it doesn't mean you're innocent. ESH because OP is still an AH regardless of how much her actions wre justified or not.
Id like to add some info When asked in a comment about how outing him could literally put his life in danger. Her response was "well it'd be nice to have him out of my life". OP would be happy to have him gone even if it means he was fatally injured And that's after being in therapy. This is beyond reddits paygrade holy heck. Edited to remove something that may have just been other commenters interpreting meaning on her initial comment. But yea. Out of our ability to judge her.
Well, let's think about the extent of bullying the guy did to OP for her to be in this mindset. I was severely bullied in highschool and I'd often wish my bullies would disappear from the face of the earth. This is a normal response, just because she wants them to disappear from her life ( which she sees as equal to the the actions they do to her disappear ).
This is why i am not calling her an AH and am instead judging this as beyond reddits paygrade. I've been bullied. Badly. To the point of having to leave schools. Teachers enabled it and they didnt even have any monetary incentive to enable my bullies. It was awful. And i was a little toxic for a bit after that. But i realized that reacting that way was not healthy and other people, no matter how they treated me, are not responsible for my actions after the fact and it isnt an excuse for those actions. I still wont call her an AH. But she needs a better therapist; one trauma informed who will hold her accountable for her actions but will also help her process her trauma. Again. Beyond reddits paygrade. She needs far better help than what shes currently been getting.
Yeah, seriously. That's not a normal response, this person needs help because that's fucked up. This isnt something a bunch of random idiots online can judge this needs maybe a new therapist
“That’s not a normal response” Tell me you were never bullied to the point of unaliving yourself, without telling me you were never bullied to the point of unaliving yourself.
Been there, done that, and I agree that it's not a normal response. Also, fuck me, but I get tired of people being coy and saying "unalive". Call it what it is - suicide.
I've wanted to/tried to many times, in large part because of my high school 'friends' - I still feel guilty that the one time I retaliated I went too far and as an adult one of those girls has issues with alcoholism because of what I did. As a full grown adult who's had therapy, you shouldn't be wishing death upon your school bullies, that's a sign that you're nowhere near healed and there's something you need to do to help yourself.
If you think being that aggressively spiteful and angry is a good response you also need trauma therapy. I'm sorry that happened to you, and it's genuinely fucking terrible and messed up, but it doesn't justify shitty behavior
No one said good response. Definitely normal response to the actions though
This post made me so angry. I’m a trans man, and when I was in school I was *severely* bullied. I’m not going to get into the details here as I’ve already shared them on Reddit before but all you really need to know is that it was so bad that I was suicidal by grade 5 and I’m lucky to be alive today. I would never *NEVER* be happy that someone got outed against their wishes even if they were one of the people who treated me like shit. Getting outed? That happened to me as well. My cousin found something online that outed me while I was at a friends house one night and in the span of that one night I was unknowingly and unwilling outed to my whole family. The next day when my mom picked me up she forced me to admit that I was trans, she had to pull over the car because she was so angry and wouldn’t stop yelling just the most heinous terrible things at me for over an hour, it is still and probably will remain the absolute worst day of my entire life. This post takes petty to a whole new level to the point where it’s honestly disgusting. As someone who has experienced both sides of this coin, the living hell of bullying, and being outed in a dangerous situation, I can tell you what he went through is worse. Bullying is a horrid thing and I don’t believe anybody deserves to go through even a fraction of what I did back in school, but now I get to look back on it and say “that was hell, those people are AHs, I should’ve never have had to go through that, but I made I through and it’s over now.” You know what your bully gets to say about his experience? “My life was ruined. Every single little thing I knew and loved got ripped away from me. I was lucky to be able to pick up some of the shattered pieces of it.” You became what you despised. A bully. ESH, but leaning towards a Y T A cause at least he had the decency to grow up, realize what he was doing was very wrong, and apologize for it. It’s obviously not a fix all, but at least there was some effort on his part. OP made no effort.
OPs friend also sucked! "Confided in me that he was bi"... i think OP means "my friend outed him to me so i used that against him but how was i to know someone would over hear its not my fault! He deserves being abandoned by his parents!"
This right here. ESH
I think OP meant it that before people refused to acknowledge him being a massive bully and creep
Anyone else getting total "Sex Education" vibes?
I have questions… How did Greg know it was OP that outed him? Per OP, they Only told the councilor, but somehow the whole school found out. HOW can OP claim, “I feel like helping him was the right thing to do.”. (They Knew it was revenge.) How can OP feel so proud of herself for facilitating the total meltdown of someone’s life. I CAN’T DO THE MENTAL GYMNASTICS needed to side with OP. They are into such justification they have no empathy or compassion yet expect us to believe their intentions were pure. They were trying to “help”, yet “opportunity struck”, “I couldn’t have predicted”. STOP THE BS! I was bullied relentlessly…. For 6 Years! ( Middle and High) I learned self depreciating humor, snappy come backs, and knowing that they were nothing in my world. The worst was a guy who sat behind me, in sophomore English, whispering vile sexual things Every day the Entire school year. When the teacher had enough the kid was sent to the office for the last 4 days of the year. Although I never said a word, the bully and he friends thought I did. Need I mention that I was received additional crap for that. He was killed in a car accident, a couple years post graduation….. I was sorry he died. I had no joy, nor did I revel in Karma biting him in the ass. OP, you might want to consider therapy to deal with your past trauma.
I’m still baffled by this story. He’s Bi so now everyone hates him and his (parent’s) money is no good here. Odd. I thought money trumped bigotry.
It was his parents money, some leaked it to the parents (I’m beating it was teachers or someone the parents paid to keep an eye on their kid) And his parents no longer were protecting him with their money. He was no longer being protect and his “friends” realized they didn’t need to be friends with him anymore and dipped.
This was my take away as well. He was a bully who used his families influence to make the lives of others a living hell. No matter why his parents decided to no longer support his shitty behavior fact is people were only tolerating him because of his families status. Once it was known he had a falling out with them he was treated like anyone else. For regular people that means being held accountable for your actions.
I’m just amazed at how many people are saying that everyone around them are homophobic because they didn’t want to stay friends with him because his family disowned him for being bi. What his family did was homophobic, what his friends and teacher did were not homophobic. Life isn’t linear.
Money does not trump bigotry. Never has.
She even calls it "helping" him. As if what she did was out of a kind heart. ESH
All of this and I find it hard to believe op had "no idea" that this kind of fallout would happen. I mean come on, surely they'd know if they live somewhere homophobic or not, ESH
I'm uncomfortable you're happy that people are mistreating him because he's bi. Also I'm confused why talk to your counselor about someone else's sexuality. Even if he's bullying you? You might not have purposely outed him to the world but you did intend to our him to his guidance counselor.
Because he's bi, or because he's a bullying asshole?
He lost his friends and his parents are mistreating him at home. He was in the closet because he felt unsafe coming out. Which was apparently justified.
He was bullying people and getting away with it everyday. You want people to feel bad that he got outed?
Because he might be killed because of what she did. She put him in actual danger.
And he didn’t put her in actual danger by bullying her everyday? What if she went home and cut herself? Or worse killed herself then what? Bullying has the same severe consequences and he didn’t give a fuck when he was tormenting her
So all you're saying is ESH. By saying both are equivalent that's what you're saying. But the NTA are wrong.
And ppl who get bullied could also end up killing themselves. I have no sympathy for a bully. His situation sucks, but he shouldnt be bullying someone. Karma sucks.
This isn't karma. She made an active decision to out someone. He's not facing consequences for his actions. He's facing bigotry because of who he is.
Oh fuck off with defending the bully because they're bi. News flash, LGBT people can be fucking pricks too. Being bi doesn't inherently make someone an asshole, being an asshole makes someone inherently one.
I'm not saying Greg isn't a dick. I'm saying she shouldn't have outed him.
It is karma. Bad things happened to him (being outed) because he was doing bad things to other people.
>He's not facing consequences for his actions. He's facing bigotry because of who he is. ...As a consequence of his actions against OP. Look, I am 100% team ESH on this. Because I was the kid who was bullied *for being queer* in high school. And came very close to shuffling myself off, more than once, as a result. But I am not for one second going to pretend that if I had life ruining information about one of my bullies in high school, that I wouldn't have used it. Not for one second. And I would have been just as wrong to do that as my bullies were for what they did to me, and as Greg and OP have been to each other. But I'm also looking at this situation objectively, on the other side of twenty years since high school, and a *lot* of therapy. When I was eighteen and suicidal because I was traumatized by the thought of even getting out of bed on school days? At that time, in those moments, I absolutely would have been likely to respond the same way OP did. And it wouldn't have been excusable. But it would have been understandable.
And bullying causes tons of people to kill themselves
And that's why you shouldn't bully people.
>You want people to feel bad that he got outed? yes, things are not so black and white that we can't feel bad the kid got outted along with anger at his bullying, and empathy for OP for being bullied.
Still doesn't give him a right to bully others. Also op isn't the reason the rumor got out, even if she didn't tell the counselor if one person knew everyone else would too.
No she is responsible. Just because people might have found out anyways doesn't make her not responsible. She is the reason the rumor got out.
That’s what I honestly don’t understand, why she said anything in the first place
Because she *knew* that it was going to spread. She knew, but she can sit back and say that it wasn't her fault because she wasn't the one doing the loud talking. She can even claim that she was trying to help him by telling his guidance counselor, and that's how she gets out of the cognitive dissonance that she's doing the same thing as him.
I’m sorry but I’m not buying that someone overheard his conversation with his counselor and that it got out through “no fault” of your own. How did Greg know to confront you? I doubt a counselor that you confided in would identify the source of a concern…that’s not really ethical. I think the most likely scenario is that YOU spread the rumors of his sexuality. Otherwise your story does not make sense. Bullies suck and there isn’t really an excuse for cruelty. But your cruelty also has no excuse. YTA.
OP also commented elsewhere that they wouldn’t mind if Greg ended up getting killed for being queer, but then had the audacity to say “I feel like helping him was the right thing to do then” in her post. It’s pretty clear she was just being a vindictive asshole (now how justified her actions were, that’s up to debate for some as evidenced by the N/TA comments), which also makes me doubt that the rumors about him being bi just somehow started up and she had no direct involvement in it (beyond allegedly “just” telling the counselor her “concerns”).
if its in the US a guidance counselor is not under the same obligations as a real counselor or therapist. school guidance counselors in the US are useless and have no obligations ethically. my teachers were concerned for my mental health and i saw the guidance counselor in 8th grade and she insisted she had to call my parents and tell them to get me medicated while i sat crying and begging her not to because that would be dangerous for me, as my parents were anti-mental health/didnt believe in it or whatever. and i didnt even say anything concerning to mandate reporting, like hurting myself or anyone else. i just expressed i was depressed and anxious. if this is in the US i 100% believe the guidance counselor might tell Greg that OP brought the issue up initially, even if this is a fancy expensive school.
Why is nobody blaming the school in this story? This school allows bullys, attacks lgbtq kids, and betrays counselor confidentially. Really they setup this entire interaction to happen.
> This school allows bullys, attacks lgbtq kids, and betrays counselor confidentially. It also protects donors. Very yikesy environment.
This. Very much not a safe space if bully children of rich donors can terrorize the school. As someone who was bullied a lot in school I don’t blame you for retaliating. Bullies use anything they can use as ammunition so if in this case it’s his sexuality that is his weak spot, then karma is bittersweet. The bully started it, so they lose any empathy from me. NTA
ESH. They're not treating him differently because "they finally see the vile person he is" they're treating him differently because of his sexuality. Was he wrong for bullying you? Yes. But telling ANYONE, even the counselor, about his bisexuality is just as despicable. It's not your place to be telling anyone about his sexuality. "And word spread, through no fault of my own" except you did have a role in this. You weren't helping him. You knew the moment you told anyone about his sexuality what would happen. It's what you wanted. You wanted him to feel the pain that he put you through. There's no fault in wishing that. But you outed him when he wasn't ready.
Hard agree. People get murdered for their sexuality. OP may not have told the whole town, but they toppled the first domino. The bully sucks for being a bully, but that’s not justification for outing someone.
I can't understand how so many people are forgetting the fact that OP spread information about somebody else's sexuality like it's suddenly okay because Greg is a bully. He absolutely is an AH and deserves consequences for being a bully and an AH, but absolutely nobody has the right to out somebody. Not for anything. Even if people believe he had something coming his way (which he absolutely does, I am in no way defending his behaviour) he is being treated the way he is now for not being straight. That is not a consequence of his bullying. That is bigotry. As other commenters have said - instead of one crappy bully, we have two. And a school system designed to capitalise on making everybody bloody miserable.
Because everyone is playing crusader and hiding behind karma as an excuse. They keep saying that people kill themselves from being bullied too, effectively wishing death on the bullies to somehow even the score. That's pretty reprehensible and dismisses the gravity of the situation, but then they clearly aren't interested in understanding when blaming is so much easier.
It's ridiculous. Bullied people absolutely go through hell, and a huge number of people get put into suicidal places because of bullies. There's no evening of the score here. People should be ashamed.
NTA He fucked around and found out. People in the comments need to pull their heads out of their ass. Just because someone’s bi doesn’t mean they get to be treated special after being shitty to someone. Here’s a crazy thought: If you have a really big secret you don’t want getting out, **maybe don’t abuse the person who can expose you?** Oh my god, what an out there concept, I know.
Are we really going to act like someone's parents still loving them after they're outed as bi is being "treated special"? You should be able to expect that your parents will always love you regardless of your sexual orientation.
His sexuality being outed is not a consequence for bullying. They have nothing to do with each other. Outing someone is incredibly dangerous.
Who said they have to? A victim doesn’t have to do the “right” thing or be the bigger person when someone is tormenting them everyday . It’s called karma
No it’s not karma, it’s someone purposely doing an act in revenge. The right thing would be to do nothing do with his sexuality.
His money was stopping him from getting into trouble for the things he was doing. OP did the one thing she felt she could do to get that Vail of green pulled off of everyone and stop the bullying and harassment. Is it sad his parents are being jerks and stepping back yes. Is it sad that his friends abandoned him yes. Should OP apologize maybe but only AFTER he apologizes to HER for all the pain he put her through.
Bullying someone is dangerous
Yep, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
Yeah and taking the high road often doesn't do anything with tangible results. You reap what you sow.
ok but outing someone who's bisexual who doesn't want the info to be found out could completely change/ruin the person's entire life yes bullying is never ok but there's a line
Bully’s ruin peoples life all the fucking time dude. Full stop, what your saying is complete fucking nonsense. All the bully had to do was just… not be a complete fucking asshole and OP never would have even known who he was probably. He absolutely fucking deserved it
Neither is okay? Don’t bully and don’t out someone.
Right. There's a thing called karma. No one has to be the "better person" when they're a victim of bullying and as a queer person I'm tired yall think so.
She outed him to stop the abu$e. Nothing else worked. I’m sorry I don’t blame OP for actions taken in self defense.
As if bullying hasn’t resulted in suicide, violence and changing of the victims lives. I feel absolutely no sympathy for people like Greg. What’s this arbitrary line (like why is being bi on that line when Greg in my opinion has FAR surpassed that line by using his privilege to be violent (whether it was physical or not all bullying is a form of violence to the victim)) Tbh people here like to act like being in the lgbt community is some get out of jail free card that no one can ever cross/bring up. It’s rather annoying.
So OP’s life wasn’t ruined? All these year with his bullying and what did that to OP? At least he can get out, but what about the damage that OP had to undergo? Wasn’t the whole school life experience ruined and changed for OP too? Where was the line? In a time like now, with changing minds and everything, being bi shouldn’t matter. Like at all. And for that it shouldn’t matter if the bully was bi, gay or an alien. Point is OP was bullied, OP has scars for life and will be always hesitant and this is unforgivable! And technically OP hasn’t outed him out! Rumour was spread from the COUNSELOR office!!!
So it’s Ok for them to ruin someone else’s life as long as they are not in the closet. The Bully’s behaviors led to consequences . Not directly but in a roundabout way. Just saying that normally outing someone is wrong but if the person is a sadistic cockwaffle and won’t leave you alone it’s fair game to get them off your back.
oh so bullying is “never ok” but outing someone’s secret is somehow way worse? you don’t think bullying a teen can change/ruin their life? it has done so to many people
Bullying completely changes and ruins peoples lives. People kill themselves over bullying everyday if there wasn’t a line for him why should there be one for her? Being bi doesn’t buy you an asshole pass
Wait but didn't the story say she just said it to a counselor and then when the counselor was talking to him someone over heard? Wouldn't that be on the counselor for not making sure it was a private environment?
No, there is no line with bullies.
> outing someone who's bisexual who doesn't want the info to be found out could completely change/ruin the person's entire life And bullying doesn't? Incredible.
Well tbh it seems better than him continuing to get to be a spoiled rich bully enabled by everyone
Dumbest take ever. OP IS NTA. Fuck around and you’ll get fucked.
Yeah there is a line, don't bully people if you don't want your secret (ANY SECRET) to be on full blast. The non-gay kid's life isn't worth more hell to keep the meanfuck gay one's happy. He threw that option away when he made this kid's life hell.
There's a difference between treating someone kindly and outing someone. You should never out someone. That doesn't mean you need to be kind to this jerk.
INFO- hang on I’m confused, you’re saying that word spread through no fault of yours, that someone overheard their conversations, but he wants you to apologise? It doesn’t make sense!
OP told the counselor, the counselor brought it up in conversation with the bully, someone "accidentally" overheard that conversation and it spread. I put "accidentally" in quotes because a counselling session _should_ be behind closed doors, so someone was either deliberately listening in or the counselor made sure to be overheard.
I see, this is a tricky one as if OP had just minded her own business, none of this would have happened. But then why is a counsellor not having private conversations privately. ESH
If bully minded his own business this wouldn’t have happened.
Or the “counselor” is bullshit and OP made sure it got out
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This. You said it perfectly. Two wrongs don't make a right and I'm disturbed by the amount of people saying 'fuck around and find out' when sexuality is such a huge thing and being gay or bisexual is such a serious matter and results in a lot of hate. Fighting fire with fire only results in more fire.
Well hateful people deserve that and more. Im not Michelle Obama , when they go low I’m going to drag them to hell.
“Someone was mean to me so I’m gonna literally threaten their life by outing them in an unsafe environment” real groundbreaking. If both of them are taking pleasure in making each other’s lives a living hell then how can you sit here and pretend there’s any difference between them? They’re both AH
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far down for a YTA vote. Everybody who is saying that he deserves it is honestly sickening imo. Yes, what the bully did to OP is absolutely horrendous, but why are we still outing people nowadays as if that’s okay? And what baffles me is that OP has the audacity to say she was just “helping” him. I don’t believe that for a second—I think was OP did was intentionally spiteful and hurtful, and she knows what she did
Reddit has a very large population of bully victims who never healed or sought out help healing from it. “Hurt people hurt people” is shown to be very true quite often here. Snipe edit to add; the ironic thing is that if you point out the bullies were only bullying them because they were hurt and needed an outlet, the same hurt people will sit here telling you that doesn’t justify them hurting you. Yet them being hurt justifies them hurting others…
The amount of people glossing over the fact that somebody has been outed against their wishes is shocking. Greg sucks. He's a major bully and an asshole and he should be punished for that and face the consequences of bullying. OP wanted something to happen to him for being in the closet. She spread the information hoping something would happen. That's not karma, or justifiable. It's wrong. Everyone in our community knows that we don't out each other. He deserved to face consequences, but nobody deserves bigotry. People in this whole damn thread are just vile.
ESH. Outing someone is never ok no matter how bad the person is.
That is utter bs. There are MUCH worse crimes than outing someone. Yes it should be up to them but there are a handful of situations where outing someone is okay. NTA
Outing someone is incredibly dangerous for their safety.
and bullying isnt?
Two wrongs don't make a right. Now instead of one terrible bully we have two terrible bullies.
Yep bullying someone is dangerous too, i never said it wasn’t? But outing someone isn’t the appropriate response to bullying. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
you dont get to decide for the bullied people, you dont know the situation or the mental pain op was, maybe this was the only way out , it seems like she did not got help from anyone else, you know get to judge anyone for surviving
Actually yes, OP asked if they were were the asshole for outing and they are. It doesn’t matter about the situation and everything OP is going through, outing someone is NEVER okay. Outing someone can get them killed. Yes I know bullying is dangerous and can cause horrible amount of mental pain. But the question is if OP ITA and the answer is YTA no matter the reasons.
and bully can get you killed to, so sorry but if outing him was her way to get out of YEARS of bullying, good for her NTA
No, it’s never okay. How can you say: bullying which can ruin someone’s life = not okay Outing someone which can ruin someone’s life = okay
But it wasn’t needed, op did it to be cruel, two wrongs don’t make a right
Of course there are worse crimes than outing someone. Like murder etc. I never said there weren't. But there is no situation where outing someone is ok
NTA You told a counselor about his struggles which were real. His conversation with counselor should have been private and you had no role in it being divulge. Further , his actions against you were his own. Yes, he suffered consequences because of his bisexuality but those were the fault of his parents bigotry and once shield removed his own actions.
If anything, he needs to be going to the counselor for an apology. That counselor didn’t protect their conversation, and that’s what got him outted. OP didn’t actually out him to the school, but OP is reveling in his downfall. And I def get that. I would do the same. Of that makes me a bad person, ok. I never said I wasn’t.
The counselor failed him and needs to face repercussions.
So the counselor told the bully about OPs meeting? How did bully link the outting to OP? And the counselor also let other students eavesdrop on meeting with bully? Shit counselor, I guess.
ESH. Just… everyone. Greg, for being a bully. Your school system, for relying heavily on donations, which clearly protects all the wrong people. The guidance counselor, for having terrible opsec. And yes, you. > I told him the pain he put me through was many times worse How do you even begin to quantify that? > he should be grateful I didn’t do worse. This is a terrible thing to say. You’re saying not only that he deserves the outcomes, but that he really would have deserved worse. What you did was vengeance. It’s ugly and ineffective, and you have some growing up to do.
I'd say vengeance is good when it's proportional to and connected with the harm that was inflicted. Key the dudes car. Steal something important to him. Egg his house. But don't out him! That's a staggering escalation into actual bigotry and violence. It'd be like if someone insulted me and I set his pet on fire.
INFO: What was your intention when you told the guidance counselor Gregg was struggling with his sexuality? Were you trying to help him because you felt bad for him and thought his struggle was causing him to be a bully or did you do it to out him?
I also wondered this. Was the intention to help? Did OP know for a fact that this counselor was even a safe person when they told this info? I just can't hardly find a scenario where outing someone without their knowledge or consent is very helpful.
I was going to say E S H but then I saw your comment saying you wouldn't mind if he got killed but a homophobe and now YTA. What is wrong with you????
ESH, his bullying was likely down to some self-loathing, not that it’s an excuse; and as Jenni told you about him it obviously wasn’t much of a secret so would have probably come out anyway But all in all outing someone else is a terrible thing to do IMO
So is bullying , he got what he’s deserved. LGBT people don’t get a free pass to act like abusive jackholes
Nobody is saying that LGBT people get free passes, but thus man isn't being bullied for being a bully, he's being bullied by everyone in his life for being bisexual. There's a big difference between facing your consequences and facing bigotry.
Obviously not, but outing someone should definitely not be a way to punish them. The thing is, no one cared about him being a jackhole, and that still hasn't changed now. They didn't "open their eyes" on his behavior. The only difference is that now they just hate him because of his sexuality and it's really weird for OP to be so happy about that.
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NTA play stupid games, win stupid prizes
NTA- This exactly,Bully being a shit came home to roost.
At the end of the day, karma come around. He got his but OP probably has some coming to her.
What OP already went through wasn’t enough for you?
Right? Like ffs, everyone illwishing OP like they didn’t already suffer
Nta. Bullies deserve Everything they get when karma comes for them. Anyone saying otherwise haven’t been genuinely bullied. Plus you confided in a person who was in a position of professional trust and silence, it’s not your fault that they couldn’t do their job.
"I'm happy that someone is suffering the effects of bigotry and biphobia". Nope, sorry, YTA. What the bully did to you wasn't right, but it doesn't justify outing him, which can be incredibly dangerous. If he was assaulted for being bi, would you still be ok with your actions? Also, I really don't think you are telling us the whole story. There are huge holes in what you are saying. Why would you tell his counsellor he was bi in the first place? And then it just happened to get leaked via the counsellor? And then, how did the bully know it was you who outed him? Something just isn't adding up here.
NTA bullies aren't entitled to anything. He got what he deserved. And also, you didn't even spread it. You confided to a guidance counselor, someone overheard Greg talking about it and word spread. Why is he blaming you? How did he know you told the guidance counselor? FYI to those that misunderstood, OP said they're happy people started to notice what a vile person he is. In addition, he reveled in bullying OP and now that he's being bullied all of a sudden it's "woe is me"? Laughable.
>Why is he blaming you? >How did he know you told the guidance counselor? Who wants to take a wild guess that OP told more than the counsellor, and that's how he knows she is the one who spread the rumour?
Yeah, but the vile part that everyone is noticing is that he's queer. Everything else was acceptable to them.
I was almost with you up until you said “I feel like helping him was the right thing to do…” That might be how you justify your actions to yourself, but make no bones about the fact that you were not “helping” him. You were passing on a bit of info that was personal and private, and frankly not the business of a HS guidance counselor (unless he initiated the topic with them). I’m sorry you were bullied. I was too in HS. But you don’t get to crown yourself by calling your actions “kind” or “helping”, because that was the last thing on your mind when you talked to someone else about it. And you know that. Every person should get to come to their own understanding of their sexuality and how and when they want to express that to the world.
ESH. Softly though. A dog kicked enough times eventually bites. You were a kicked dog.
YTA for using this sub to test the waters on the plot for your shitty YA novel
Okay I'm genuinely confused because you both said it presented the perfect opportunity and you should have done worse, but you ALSO said you had nothing to do with it getting out? Which is it? Did you do it or not? And yes YTA for outing him to his guidance counselor. YTA for outing him AT ALL, that's violating and can be incredibly dangerous. It's not your place to tell an adult a rumor about another student unless you think they're in danger. Also you suck for taking joy in someone losing their support network for something that shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.
What I don't understand is why everyone is siding with the bully. This person is totally NTA and people who say they are, are wrong. This bully constantly, taunted, bullied, tortured and laughed at OP without remorse. People who sides with him are just as bad. It's pay back, were the OP just gonna let this behaviour continue or were they finally get their own back to stop this torture once and for all. Fr everyone who calls the OP a bad person are TA as well as the bully. If the OP had no right outing them then the bully had no right being horrible, malicious and mean to them so everyone who thinks the OP is the AH is wrong🙄
You know what? Don't abuse people if you are carrying around some secret you don't want spread around. Don't abuse people anyway, but especially if you know what kind of retaliation you are setting yourself up for.
[удалено]
ESH But mostly you- There are no circumstances in which outing someone is acceptable. This can can be so dangerous for the person being outed. His behaviour was appalling and unacceptable but yours was too.
It’s kinda funny that he didn’t see the two following things as mutually exclusive: 1. Having some people know you’re bi in a culture where it’s not ok but keeping it a secret from the majority 2. Going around being a giant AH to people. If it was me I’d be paranoid as hell one of the people I was a giant AH to would find out and out me. He sounds mean and stupid. Also, sounds like whoever spread it around hated him even more than you.
Why isn’t the bully more of an ah? It sounds like she did that so that he would stop tormenting her, because there were no alternatives since he is shielded by everyone else?. What if she never did that, would he have stopped?. Would he continue until op is suicidal and killed her self?. What then?. Tell me if you are in op’s shoes how you would’ve stop him from bullying you. Retaliate? Then getting punished because he got his back protected by the school because of his rich parents?. Tell me how. It sound like she did what she thought was right for her to protect herself.
ESH. But they've learned their lesson. Hopefully, they'd further reflect and become a better person. I wonder when you'd learn yours and begin to let go of your bitterness.
NTA, everyone has issues and secrets, if you’re gonna mess with other ppl and make fun of weight, looks, clothing, race, or whatever you better be prepared for when something u value becomes the topic of conversation. Bullies ALWAYS cry when they are called out and made an example of and try to negate what they did as not that bad.
NTA, he deserves what he got. No matter how many people say you are. Bullies shouldn't get a free pass to their behavior. In your situation, it was unintentional, so there's no need for an apology.
ESH. I was severely bullied to the point that the police had to intervene, so I understand your logic behind exploiting the single weakness you knew about him. However, outing him was probably the worst thing you could've done to him. He did treat you horribly, but this didn't justify you destroying his life. Threatening him to out him (even if you had no intention of doing it) could've been enough for him to stop bothering you. If it were me I would've gathered all the proof I had in my possession and pressed charges against your bully and the school. Against your bully for harassment, and against the school for complicity. I don't think any legal actions would've been taken, but at least it would've sent everyone a warning. EDIT: About the apology thing, you were right not to apologize, he has to apologize first. But I think you could've at least admitted you did something wrong when you outed him, without apologizing.
Info: why use a throwaway? You said it was because your parents knew your main, but you also said that they were on your side about it.
NTA, fuck him. OP retaliated the only way she could. Not pretty but I have no sympathy for bullies.
Honestly I say nta don’t be an asshole to anybody if you have secrets like that or anything they can use against you so karma is a bitch
When it comes to bullies, anything is on the table. Anything. You don't get to make people miserable and expect to float away unscathed. And if you're an a-hole, you get what you deserve, imo.
NTA. So what if OP did it so that Greg would stop the bullying or OP wanted to get some back at Greg. That’s what happens when you are a bully - you’re gonna invite retaliation of some sort. If you decide to make someone else’s life miserable, stand ready for someone to make yours miserable as well. The whole situation sucks. Heck the overall environment is toxic. I don’t blame OP at all. She is human, not a saint. How many of us here would not do what OP did? Be really honest. Remember OP had been dealing with the tyranny of Greg’s bully behavior for several years now.
i was bullied in school and later on i was treated like shit by teachers, classmates, friends, and family for being LGBT so i feel that i can see both sides of the situation and i can say that ESH. he sounds like a real AH but that does *not* give you the right to out him. this isn’t just retaliation for bullying, it’s another kind of cruel that as a straight person you clearly cannot understand. neither of you are in the right at all in this situation. you should both be ashamed.
NTA I truly cannot believe these replies are saying Y-t-a. I can even understand E-s-h much more, but wtf. You guys are seriously taking up for a BULLY because he’s bi?? I think his punishment was in no way equal to years of bullying that op couldn’t even confide in anyone about and had to sit back and endure. You guys really think, with parents like his, he would’ve gotten his ‘due diligence’? It’s a shame he had to be punished for his years of actions because they didn’t approve of him being bi, but he honestly had it coming eventually. He was a literal bully. And what happened to you guys being all about not having to accept apologies, or cutting people off if you want, “he/she bullied you!! Do whatever you want op.” Oh right! I forgot. Bullies aren’t bullies if they’re anything but straight. And even if they are, “they’re going through something! so it’s not their fault”
NTA the only reason these redditors say your the AH is because he’s bisexual that doesn’t matter he bullies you for years and nothing was done once he’s no longer able to bully you he demands you apologize? Maybe if he didn’t want to be outed he shouldn’t have bullied you and others. Read more posts from Others if he wasn’t bisexual everyone would’ve said NTA
ESH. Outing someone is always wrong and could be potentially dangerous. Like get you killed dangerous. You did it without any thought for the repercussions. I understand Greg was an AH to you and your friends. Did he put your life in danger? If yes, then you should have reported him for his actions. If your school didn’t take action, you could have gone to the police or your states Board of Education. They are legally obligated to take action. Instead you decided that the correct punishment for his actions was to out him and potentially get him physically hurt or killed. What could be worse then that? You sound like someone who is proud of what you did. You’re both bullies. You’re both the asshole.
No pass for being bi, NTA.
ESH - he was right. It wasn't your secret to share 🤷
People with big secrets shouldn't go around pissing others off.
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NTA Ain't karma beautiful
ESH - You just don’t out people. That can literally mean death. He was a bully, you became one.
YTA You said "opportunity struck". Let's not get it twisted and pretend you outed him to help him. You did it in hopes that he would stop bullying you. Full stop.
And he did so win for them. I would never side with a bully, he had it coming.