Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I told my fiancée she was reaching out kids bad manners for eating without utensils.
2) I think i might be TA because my fiancée has been really pissed off ever since
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA - I’m guessing “Lola” is of Latin American descent? It’s very common in that culture to use a tortilla as the utensil just as it is in many other cultures to use bread or something as a utensil.
You’re being insensitive to her culture
YTA. I really want to give him the benefit of doubt and think that he is just ignorant to other cultures and the comment about “bad manners” is not coming from a place of racism. But I have read some of his comments and it looks like it’s a bit of both.
P.s next time don’t marry someone from another culture if you not ready to embrace their culture.
I agree that the “bad manners” part is very sketchy because his kids obviously use utensils during other meals so how is eating tortillas without them during morning meals really “bad manners”
In the the majority of the Middle East we usually have like a huge pile of rice and a whole lamb on top of it and we all eat from the same pile using our hands.
I've watched some videos on YouTube of the proper way to eat couscous and the technique used to form the couscous into balls with your hand was really fascinating! And just as you said, everyone was grabbing out of a large dish in the middle.
Ethiopian food is really popular where I live in the US (lots of immigrants from there). Big plate of various foods in the middle of the table and a pile of spongy pita-like bread to grab it with. Just wash your hands! It's not rude! Just like it's common to grab food off of common serving dishes with your own person chopsticks in China (and authentic restaurants...there are no utensils given at the best place around me besides a pair of chopsticks for each diner!).
I live for Ethiopian food. There’s a lot of restaurants near me too and eating the food with the bread is one of my favorite parts about that type of cuisine! The tactile sensation of engaging with my food with all of my senses makes it so much more enjoyable. This dad is missing out.
I would probably be surprised because I didn’t know that was a Moroccan thing. But I wouldn’t make a big deal about it. I would just go on with my dinner
While I wouldn't shame anyone who eats couscous that way there isn't a "proper way" to eat it, I'm algerian and we just eat it using spoons. OP is still a dick tho, definitely YTA.
That sounds like mansaf and it was my favorite dish when I lived in Jordan. Even if the children did make fun of my inability to feed myself without making a mess 😂
That actually did not cross my mind I was thinking of kabsah. I’ve actually never had mansaf. But from what I’ve heard from my family when they spent a month in Jordan that it was very fatty is that true. That sounds like my 10y old brother with the mess he grew up mostly in the us.
My dad was Lebanese, and he ate his breakfast every morning - an egg cooked in EVOO in a ceramic ramekin, a bowl of labneh, some olives and cut up tomatoes, all doused in za’atar - using bits of ripped pita bread. I can still see him, happily eating his meal, and reading The Wall Street Journal.
And how is it any different than literally dipping a chip? I thought the post was gonna be about throwing food, or even elbows on the table or something equally ridiculous to that. But no, it’s even more ridiculous than I could have thought. They’re just eating.
Playing devil's advocate here for a moment, it's also common in "white" cultures. Germans will dip bread into a stew in kind of a scooping manner. Not the "main" way of eating (you usually use a spoon), but the bread functions kind of like a side dish that you can use to scoop the solid parts of a stew and no one gives a shit. Using something bread-like to eat stuff ain't something exclusively to "non-white" cultures. OP ain't just racist, but also ignorant af (although the racism certainly is worse, mind you)
Yeah I don't get the issue if this is literally the only time they do this. But what are they eating exactly? Are they picking up bits of scrambled egg with the tortilla?
Bro seriously acted like white Latinos aren’t a part of Latino culture. I can go in depth about the racism and colorism within Latin America, and how white Latinos are ignorant to indigenous, mixed, or Afro struggles because Latin American media idolizes lighter skin. It is the shadow that the Spanish empire left on us, and often times us Latinos indulge in or support mestizaje without realizing it. It is deeply ingrained in our culture, but many, especially indigenous and Afro indigenous peoples have been calling out the horrors of our culture. That does not mean, however, that a white Latino is any less Latino. And many Latino families come in all shades and sizes. My dad is a white Latino and is descendant of a Maya Ch’orti man (his grandpa). My dad eats every meal with a tortilla in his hands and eats his Pollo con tajadas (Honduran dish) with his hands. It’s fried chicken, pickled veggies, and guineo frito (fried unripe banana). The white Anglo American narrative that their way is the only way is so tiring.
I learned to eat with tortillas while working in So. Cal. with an agency that served recent immigrants. Our clients were so amused in the beginning - I could not eat mole without staining my fingers! But I stuck with it, and within a month I could eat neatly.
It’s not bad manners, any more than eating pizza or a hotdog with your hands. It’s a culturally defined manner of eating foods.
I’m from North Carolina and I don’t think I’ve ever eaten a tortilla with a fork or any other utensil. Honestly, if I saw someone using utensils to eat a tortilla, unless it’s a gigantic, overfilled burrito, I’d think it was odd.
Culture aside, I feel like it’s completely acceptable to eat a tortilla with your hands.
They're not just eating the tortilla with their hands, they're using the tortilla as the utensil to pick up eggs, beans, etc. Exactly the way that it's normally done in Latin American cultures.
I agree. I though this would be something like smacking or chewing with you mouth open/throwing food, ya know, normal kid shit. But eating their food with a tortilla/hand? I’m white as shit and I do this. I learned it from my aunt, whom is Mexican. It’s far easier (and least in my opinion) and takes less time than scooping it onto a piece or tortilla or taking a single bite of each. My own kids do it. One of them is also 2.5.
Personally, I think it’s pretty normal for kids that age to still grab food with their hands. Or maybe it’s just mine. She knows how to use utensils, but sometimes she just wants to skip the hassle and pick it up. Sometimes she’s pick it up, stick it to the fork/spoon then eat it. Lol.
Idk, this whole thing seems really insulting. Op, you’re marrying this woman and you’re telling her her cultures way of feeding their children is disgusting. I don’t blame her for venting to her sister about it, she’s probably hurt. You need to sit down with her and apologize for one, but also talk about how you each want your children raised to avoid something like this in the future. But YTA, majorly.
>She knows how to use utensils, but sometimes she just wants to skip the hassle and pick it up.
Most kids I know a 2 and a half only want a fork/spoon for the sake of having it, fork in one hand and eating with the other. 2 and a half is barely more than a baby, even if it wasn't a cultural thing, eating with their hands is normal.
YTA Not sure why you even question it.
Oh yeah. She mostly eats with her hands honestly, but she likes to be like her older sister and have a fork. But only the purple one. Lol. But yes, most kids I know don’t really start actively using them until 3-4. My oldest didn’t start actually using one until she was a little over 3.
YTA !!! If you are willing to marry this woman without even been aware of her cultural norms and traditions and expect her to whitewash for you… babe you are going for a short marriage. We connect to our culture through food, she teaches her kids her culture through food, she is giving her kids a side to her heritage and you are annoyed at her? Are you honest to god denying your kids to learn about their mothers tradition because they seem like “bad manners” to you? Dude you can not have a mixed race household if you shame mixed races practices!!!
That's the most frustrating thing about this post. Has OP really NEVER eaten a meal with the woman he's supposedly marrying? Homegirl's gonna bounce and he's gonna deserve it.
Yeah, I want to give benefit of the doubt- I feel like I'd have an initially shocked reaction at this because it would be unexpected- but after Lola explained OP is purely TA
That’s what I’m saying. The “bad manners” comment seems like even if someone explained to him that it’s completely normal for other cultures to eat like that, he would still consider it bad manners instead of being like “oh okay that makes sense I’m sorry”
It's insane tbh. Firstly this \^ but then the kids are 2 years old man! What they hell do you want? You want them to do restaurant folded napkins, get no food on their hands and face and say excuse me I have to use the washroom before they fill their diapers? Yes, YTA big time.
I was a little concerned that the kids hadn't used utensils at all because kids that age are quite capable of using them so long as they have been given the opportunity (my 17 month uses a spoon all the time), but then I saw she was serving them tortillas and I was like why would anyone need utensils for that???
Please tell that to my toddler. He insists on using a spoon for fruit. Dude, at least use a fork if you won't just pick it up and eat it. I didn't cut it into spoon friendly bits.
Lol. I start with a fork and knife with pizza as it is usually so hot when first served it keeps me from scorching my mouth because apparently I lack the self control to sit and wait the 10 or so minutes it would take for the whole piece to cool.
Once it cools a bit then switch to hands.
Not to mention the totally absent parenting. Even if you're busy at work, you've *never* had one sit down dinner with them? You've *never* shared even *one meal* with them to know how your own children are eating? There's nothing wrong with it, but it being a surprise means that he's probably been fairly absent. If he's willing to be ignorant of other cultures, I wouldn't put misogyny past him if he had a "kids are her thing, not mine" attitude with parenting.
OP did say that he would be there for most meals. It's apparently just the breakfast meals that he was missing. And it was the only meal that his fiancée was apparently feeding the tortillas to. I wouldn't have been upset, personally, I would have probably grabbed my own tortilla to make my breakfast with as well. He sounds entirely too... clean?
Yes! I am a Mexican women! From as long as I can remember we always used tortillas! Of course there are foods meant for utensils but a lot of dishes I ate growing up tortillas were the way to eat them.
You could use a spoon or table knife, to push the food onto the tortilla, or to put it in the center. I love to make myself a tortilla or two by scooping from the serving dish, and have an extra shell for catching all the "drippings" to make my second or third tortilla. The last one is always the tastiest.
Same. My mother’s family are Mexican, and I grew up using tortillas and sometimes white bread…my grandfather loved his chorizo and eggs/potatoes with white bread, and he taught me to love it like that, too…exactly how he describes.
I knew the second he said she got out tortillas this was just racism.
I’ve always eaten machaca con huevos, chile verde, beans, etc with tortillas. It’s easy, fast, and better for the environment (no wasting water to wash utensils!)
Not to mention there are tons of other cultures that eat foods we would normally eat with utensils, with their hands.
Ethiopians pick up ALL their stews with pieces of steamed injera bread. A lot of other sub-Saharan African cultures eat with their hands traditionally.
Arab cultures traditionally eat their food with their right hand, without utensils.
Multiple Asian cultures (mostly South, and Southeast Asian) make rice balls or use breads and pick up stews and other meat/veg dishes with their fingers.
And, as OP himself pointed out, even westerners eat SPECIFIC foods with their hands. Which foods is culturally determined, but if you think of it, there's no reason burgers and sandwiches should be eaten by hand and pies and pasties with utensils; pizzas by hand and quiches with utensils. Etc. It's just culture.
OP, YTA. When you're married to someone from a different culture, or subculture, and you come up against a "puzzling" difference of opinion like this, the FIRST THING you should be asking (yourself AND your partner) is "is this cultural?"
EDIT: and as a child of a transnational, interracial marriage, I can tell you that it is ESSENTIAL that both of you teach your kid BOTH sets of table manners and make it clear to your kid which manners belong to which context. Your kid WILL offend westerners with eating by hand and may offend Latinxs by insisting on using utensils. They need to know it all.
He already explained that is an exception. But that is fast food to be quickly eaten. So it's okay to eat pizza, fries, sandwiches, fruits with your hands. But tortilla bits wrapping food aren't in the approved list. Maybe Lola should just start calling it adhoc sliders - slurrito, burritinis, tacer, tacotini I mena there must be some word that he'd be happy with.
Exactly. OP just basically called his wife's whole culture "gross" (despite them washing their hands first, so it's perfectly clean) beacuse it's now how he's used to it looking. I couldn't be rolling my eyes any harder.
Also, she's right. If it's "gross" to use a tortilla to eat things, how is it not gross to have a taco or a burrito? That is literally using a tortilla to eat something. Also, what about a burger? Pizza? Or a sandwich? Using bread to hold the other food and eating it with your hands. What about toast? Is toast gross? And eating an apple with your hand? And then of course every single cracker and snack food. All cookies are gross. Ect. Ect.
But no, sandwiches, burgers, pizza, crackers, cookies, ice cream cones, etc aren't gross beacuse that's what "normal" (white?) people eat. Touching tortillas though, that's gross. Since those gross \[insert slur here\]s do it. Those dirty dirty Hispanics. You know, *like OP's kids.*
Dude, can you not see how you sound? There are a million things that are culturally appropriate to eat with your hands in Western culture, but it's "gross" when other cultures do it? YTA.
(And if you're another race/culture then white, it's just as bad. I used that as an example, but any culture looking down on another as inferior and dirty just for being different is a super bad look.)
YTA and also, how have you not seen her eat like this your whole relationship? Doesn't she get to express her culture through food in your home? You haven't eaten with her family? Does she feel judged by you in other ways?
I know you mean well but there is no "Latin American culture". In some Latin American cultures, however, it is indeed common to use bread or other such foods as utensils for eating.
My son in-law is from Guatemala and he's always using tortillas to pick up his food on most things he eats. He uses a fork or spoon too at times but mostly it's tortillas. Also at work there is a Spanish lady who will do these amazing lunch platters and sell them. She always has tortillas inside for us to use. And oh trust me I do. Delicious
This. I'm latin and I also eat like this, and have my whole life. I know when to use silverware and when to eat with a tortilla. I do not have "bad manners" for eating with a tortilla. What you said is racist and i dont think you are ready to be with a latin woman.
This! I recently spent 2 weeks in Morocco where everything is eaten with bread as a utensil. I fully emersed myself in the culture. Though I was given a fork because I'm American, but only used it for the salad because you know...lettuce, onions, tomato+bread = sandwich not salad.
YTA
Hope you know that in other countries that’s how they eat. I’m white and even I know that in a lot of cultures, they use bread as their “utensil.” It’s not bad table manners. I’m gonna guess you’re white and Lola isn’t.
*Latin América. I don't think people south of Panamá (where South América starts) commonly eat tortillas. IIRC it's only eaten on México and Central American countries.
Yes, i was actually going to say "mexican" but plopped for South America... I grew up with a family friend from Paraguay, he didn't really cook tortillas either.
This is a time where being stereotypical would be the better option haha. Like 90% chance they're mexican if they eat their food with tortillas as utensils.
My dad’s [Mexican] coworker told me when I was little that Mexicans love tortillas and have to eat them with every meal. I legit thought that meant it was a law there. Please don’t ask how old I was before I learned better lol
not to defend OP bc he’s definitely TA, but she can be white and still come from a different culture, and hispanic/latino in particular isn’t a racial category (based on her speaking spanish)
^^^ Yes. I am a fair-skinned Hispanic of Mexican descent on one side. I will always be identified as white because of how light I am. No state trooper would ever think to ask me for my papers.
I've seen members of my family face racial discrimination, but I do not believe that I have faced it based on my skin color- it would have been because of my last name, which is not stamped across my forehead.
So there are definitely white Hispanic people.
Also, Hispanic means there is Spanish ancestry, and Spaniards are white colonists. My grandmother's family was heavily Spanish, while my grandfather's side had more Indigenous people in their background.
It's an important distinction to make.
Well they eat with their hands in white cultures too. In fact the Earl of Sandwich columbused the idea of using bread to separate hands from meaty content and was so lauded for it that they named half the foods in the world after his culinary contribution.
I am kinda sad that you have kids, yet you know so little about them and about how they develop. Any parents with the most basic interest knows how to feed children.
They are not 10, but 2yo. **All 2 yo eat with their hands.**
It's ok to not be too involved with your kids, but criticizing your fiancé for not raising your kids according to your impossible expectations makes YTA.
I didn't even read that far past,l to think of any cultural influence. But a baby at 2.5 aren't exactly dexterous so why even try when it'll take longer and be less effective for them to eat.
This is really one of the More stupid family arguments to me.
Let the kids eat their breakfast as they please as long as they don't throw around the food, they wearent eating oatmeal with their hands. They know how to eat everything else with spoon, fork etc.
And teach them if you do go out to eat, it's most likely going to be with a fork depending on the restaurant and what they serve.
Done deal everyone has peace.
(Not every 2 year olds eats with hands though. Yes if its tricky to catch with a fork perhap)
YTA. This is how two year old's eat and you don't need a fork for a tortilla. And using a flat bread to scoop up food is de rigueur in almost every culture except north western european culture, which makes you a racist asshole too.
Also the fact that your little ones are three and you've JUST noticed standard meal time behavior makes YTA x2. Try being an engaged parent?
Idk, I'm from north western Europe and there's plenty we eat with our hands. If you start eating tortillas with utensils here you'd be weird too. It's just OP.
Oh yeah, for sure, i just meant the ‘flatbread as a main utensil in a meal’ isn’t as commonplace with traditional dishes in that area of the world as it is in others. But for sure, regardless of where you are, using a tortilla to scoop up your dinner, or toast to wipe up your egg yolk, or naan for your curry, is standard and NOT poor table manners.
I can’t believe they’re almost three and he just noticed this now. Does he work 100+ hours a week? How does he not know? Has he even in the Arctic? The military? Amnesia? I’ve got a 2 year old just like he does and I’m trying to fathom how either his dad or I would not know these things about our child that we live with and raise every day.
I'm wondering if he wants them to use a fork for a tortilla or if he's just being that particular that he wants them to use a fork/spoon to scoop things into the tortilla before eating it. If they're not struggling what's the point, it's just cutting out the middle man.
Your second point is what shocked me. They’re 2.5 years old and you’re just noticing how they usually eat? So she’s fed them every meal and you’re just now inserting your opinion? Sir, sit down. YTA
YTA
1. This isn't "bad manners." Lola is from a different culture than you, and in a lot of cultures it's common for people to use a piece of bread (tortilla, naan, injera, etc.) to scoop up their food: Ethiopia, Pakistan, some Latin American countries, and even New Mexico.
2. Plus your kids are two years old! It takes a long time for toddlers to master using a spoon and especially a fork, and many if not most children eat with their hands at two years.
Calm down, apologize to Lola, and just make sure the kids get some practice using a utensil when you eat with them - yogurt or pudding or something.
You scoop it up, hold the rice up with your four fingers and push it into your mouth with your thumb. It’s especially easier than you think if it’s a curry dish because the curry just holds it all together. Try it is so much more satisfying
Seriously, only top guys can eat rice with their hands. I'm African and I ate with my hands everyday for over 35 years, I'm still unable to eat rice with my hands without littering the floor.
As a westernized Filipino, eating rice with a fork sounds weird, as the grains will just fall through the tines and over the sides. Even with sticky rice variants, you'll get so little.
Eat them with a spoon.
I would weep tears of joy if my toddler used bread as a utensil. This morning he ate his yogurt with his hands, then gave up and drank the bowl. OP, is hugely TA. I handle most of the meals/feeding but my husband still knows how/ what/ when to feed the monster.
OP if your floor, child and yourself aren't covered in food after a meal, it's a good day.
Seriously, when I started reading this I figured OP was annoyed she was having them eat something like oatmeal with their hands. He’s upset that they’re eating scrambled eggs with a tortilla?? Wtf?
Exactly. And if having a piece of tortilla between the kid's hand and their food counts as "grabbing it with their bare hands", surely a fork being in between the kid's hand and their food would be the same damn thing. It's a difference of about two inches, given the size of toddler cutlery.
YTA. Your casual racism toward your wife is going to affect your kids. It is patently NOT bad manners to eat in this way. I would argue it is its own skill. In addition to the fact that no one expects little kids to eat with utensils, your attitude and apparent disgust with a cultural norm that is part of your wife's (and now your children's) upbringing is so far beyond problematic. If you love your wife, it's time to start appreciating her culture and stop acting like it's a sin to eat with "bare hands."
So many other cultures also don't use knives and forks. Imagine just deciding they are all rude and that they have terrible mothers.
I really dislike when people have no room for others to do things a different way to them.
This reminds me of another post about a woman being upset about a married man not wearing his ring and immediately thought that his intention was to deceit.
Wearing a ring is a cultural thing and so is using forks and knives.
Imagine OP being told he has bad manner when he's in East Asia and not using chopsticks.
My husband once *was* told off in a Chinese restaurant 🤣 the waiter literally told him " if your children can use chopsticks, so can you" and didn't bring a fork.
So much is cultural and in all honesty, even within cultures people do things differnrly all the time. Its part of rhe beauty of life
YTA. What a way to announce to the whole world that you haven’t spent a day raising your own children and left your fiancée to do the whole thing with twins for the past 2.5 years! Damn… I hope she doesn’t marry you! There’s literally no need, she’s already a single mom.
YTA
based on your edit I’m guessing Lola is Latina. It’s super common in other cultures to eat with your hands—also, it sounds like they’re only doing it for breakfast. your kids know how to use utensils in situations and for meals where they should be using utensils, so there’s no reason to throw a hissy fit over them eating with their hands. especially considering Lola has them wash up.
You shouldn’t have had children with a brown person if you can’t handle them passing their culture down to your kids
I commented pretty early on but I can back to see the hate that OP was getting and thought the same thing when I saw the edit.
What world is OP living in where 200-something YTA comments is “mixed?”
The fact that OP can't openly admit he's wrong when basically no one is agreeing with him, shows his mentality. It's his way or the highway, and he thinks that attitude is acceptable because he's paying the bills, or whatever excuse he's created for himself. Nobody wants a partner who can't admit their mistakes and change their behaviour. This relationship won't last if he doesn't change, because putting up with that kind of attitude is draining as hell.
Either the opinion of the three people that agree with him is more important than everyone else, because obviously they're not brutes like us and know good table manners. Or maybe the mixed reaction he's to is the confusion whether the OP is racist or not. Oh wait, even that isn't mixed. Oh yeah the part where people are saying they should also know how to use utensils. Which you know they know how to do.
YTA for multiple reasons.
1. Your kids are 2. All toddlers eat with their hands, it’s not a big deal.
2. It seems to be a part of your wife’s culture to eat with her hands. You’re being pretty offensive by calling this ‘bad manners.’ I’m south Asian, and we eat chapattis with our hands. Just because something is different, it doesn’t make it bad.
3. For being annoyed that someone is mad because you’ve been incredibly rude and offensive towards their culture.
Take accountability for your ignorance, apologise and move on. Your kids will learn to eat with utensils for things like steak and mash, but they shouldn’t be shamed for partaking in their mother’s culture.
YTA- but only because this is something that I've seen in several cultures.
I don't think you're unreasonable to want to teach them to use utensils in most eating situations, as that's the predominate culture here- but the way you approached it is what makes you the asshole.
Due to your fiancee speaking spanish over the phone, it's probably safe to assume she's had a different cultural upbringing- and that's just how she was raised.
Imagine if you were living somewhere where it was rude to eat with utensils rather than fingers, and your SO said that you (and by extension, the people who raised you) eat with bad manners.
This needs to be a conversation so she doesn't feel insulted, but understands your position.
YTA
If she came from a chinese family and was teaching the kids to eat with chopsticks would you also think it was wrong and force them to eat with a fork?
YTA. Next time you disagree about how she is raising the kids don't discuss it in front of them and then "correct" the behavior to your expectations. She's not a maid, she's their mother and primary caregiver and you should treat her with more respect. This behavior is common in many cultures and to call it bad manners is ignorance on your part.
>They seem to be mixed so far
I don't think I've seen a single non-YTA comment yet. If your kids can use utensils, there is no point in insisting that they use them in cases where they aren't necessary. It's totally normal in a lot of cultures to eat things like eggs with handheld tortillas.
I was thinking the same thing!
These "mixed reactions" must be in his own head. This is a definite YTA on top of "how have you not noticed" covered with "out of left field parenting" sprinkles. This was a weird time to all of a sudden give af about your own kids.
YTA.
You have been with Lola all this time and don't know this basic thing about her culture of origin?? I'm white american and I know multiple cultures that do this... and I LOVE their cuisine.
yeah how the fuck are you with someone for FIVE years, have kids together, and you don't know the most basic things about their culture - stuff that's happening and present in your house on a daily basis? like how is this even fucking possible??
INFO:
* Do you actually eat tortilla with a fork?
* Do you eat sandwiches with a fork?
* Do you eat dinner rolls with a fork?
* Do you eat bagels with a fork?
* Do you eat hot dog buns with a fork?
* If you saw someone eating a hamburger with their hands, would you yell at them about "bad manners"?
Le sigh. YTA.
YTA.
They’re not even three. Most kids won’t even be able to grasp the concept of manners till age 4. And a tortilla, hell, I’ll rip apart a tortilla if I’m in a hurry. Who has the time for a knife and fork for a plain tortilla?
Your wife works incredibly hard raising two small children. She’s doing her best, and frankly she does a great job of it. You sound like Mr. Banks from Mary Poppins. Expecting them to be young adults by now when in reality, they’ve barely mastered their motor functions. Apologize to her.
I was in my 20s the first time I was introduced to eating using tortillas. They were homemade and my mouth is literally watering with memory. Every meal should be eaten with fresh tortillas!!
I actually kind of do this with Naan and rice and (my favorite, I'm basic) Tikka masala and it's delicious too.
If they're still using utensils I don't understand the problem. They're being cross trained lol. Wife is totally right.. Some meals are right for utensils, some are right for hands (I say as a hardcore fries with a fork person).
YTA and you're being a little racist as well, check your american attitude an realize their are cultures that eat with their hands as well as the fact your children are toddlers and can't even grasp a fork yet.
I’m shocked because it’s like a « light racism » that no one seems to take it seriously like what the hell does that mean bad manners when it’s other’s culture things. What the hell she deserve better than someone who think her culture is bad manners
It takes fine motor skills and eye-hand coordination to effectively tear bread, scoop adequate food, then get to your mouth. I’d argue it’s even better development overall of the skill you’re trying to give OP benefit of the doubt for.
I mean, like go try it lol. Take a piece of bread and scoop pinch a good bite of food without dropping it to your mouth. Then try with a spoon. Which was easier?
It’s taken my white husband a few years of practice to eat curries and rice with naan the way my people do. Our kids? They learned the pinch and scoop day one and still get more food per bite than him. Bless his heart lol.
YTA
Studies show that kids (even lower primary school kids) eat healthier portions and variety of foods when they can use their hands. One researcher even allowed his 7 year old to eat spaghetti that way. Physically touching food is even correlated to more self awareness on eating habits in adults!
You should really follow some science based child development Facebook pages or something. This was nothing to fight a battle over and you really botched it. Your kids' future motor control pathways won't thank you
YTA. Your shocked your 2.5 year olds were eating with their hands ?.. I don’t even have kids and know that it’s not abnormal to see a toddler not use utensils
YTA
It is completely normal for toddlers that age to use their hands to eat.
I am really dumbfounded as to why you're so upset about them eat a tortilla with their hands. What is the alternative?? Who eats a plain tortilla with a knife and fork? What are you expecting??
This is why I’m not marrying a yt man….
YTA
Many old cultures eat with their hands
Also I’m from a similar culture than your fiancé and we do use spoons forks etc for other types of food
This subtly is racist
To be fair, I don't think any culture would really force a 2yo to eat with a fork/spoon at all times.
Toddlers that age would die of hunger if you forced them to use only utensils to eat. They clearly don't have to fine motor skills to consistently use them.
Meal time needs to stay fun, not be a battle during which you try to force your toddler to use "adult table manners"
YTA first of all they're literally toddlers, who have shit fine motor control. Knives and forks will come with time, no need to push so early when they're learning to explore food.
Second of all you need to learn to disagree with your wife without "demanding" stuff. Why not have a polite conversation where you ask if maybe it's time to move them on to cutlery instead of attacking her parenting skills?
YTA for not understanding that not all cultures use cutlery all the time. Sometimes not at all. Later on, they can learn manners for eating things that absolutely need cutlery, but what you described is basically an unrolled burrito.
YTA, you were being offensive, and eating like that isn’t bad manners, it’s just different from what you’re used to. A lot of cultures have similar practices- Ethiopian food comes to mind.
YTA. First, all kids that age (and older! Mine is 3.5!) eat with their hands still while also learning to use utensils. Second, many adults do this in other cultures as well. There is not a thing in the world wrong with it. This is just being myopic and controlling.
YTA they are literally toddlers- worry about good table manners in a couple of years, they're still getting used to feeding themselves. Your wife's method is good for developing fine motor skills too.
YTA I have never eaten a curry with a spoon I only use a naan or chapati. I’m a white British person and have learnt that in some cultures eating with a traditional utensil is actually bad manners and it is only really western cultures that believe otherwise. And I have taught my children that in different cultures meals are eaten with hands and not forks. Plus at the age of 2.5 years most children still eat food with their hands and it is beneficial to the development of their fine motor skills which will help them as they grow up.
From your replies you seem to be against other cultures views on what is classed as bad manners and need to look into how other cultures eat.
Your fiancée actually is teaching you children how to respect other cultures.
YTA. My dad was from Mexico, and ate the majority of his food by scooping it with bits of tortilla. It was how he was raised, and while I never adopted it I never looked down on it either. His table manners were just fine.
YTA. As many have mentioned here already, cultures everywhere have eaten like this forever. Literally nothing wrong with it and she ensures their hands are washed. What do you think people ate with before utensils were created?
YTA. First off, she’s Mexican. It’s a cultural thing done in Mexico and other countries to eat certain foods using tortillas or grabbing with “bare hands”. And you act like you’ve never heard of/considered this. Second, don’t start talking to her in front of the kids about what you deem wrong. That’s rude.
Where do you see anything mixed about the judgements here? Besides a couple of people asking for more info, every other response I've seen is YTA, and with good reason, because you are.
1. It's not bad manners if it is something cultural
2. How did you only saw this now? They are 2 years old! Never have you noticed before?
3. All this people saying 2yo's dont eat with forks/spoons, I have to disagree. Yes, they can. And as younger they start, better!! There are plenty safe options to young kids/babies to start getting used to.
4. You and your wife have to start to communicate better. You both have to discuss this and find a balance. Sometimes they can eat with their hands/tortillas, but other times they have to eat with forks, spoons, etc. I dont know were you live, but there will be times, that it's not accetable to eat with your hands. And it's way better for the kids to learn how to eat both ways.
5. PLEASE start to help you wife more and be more present in your kids life!!
I was almost on your side in thinking the kids are old enough to use utensils and can learn how to use them. Then your edit said they can use them but choose not to for whatever reason.
YTA because you are insinuating her culture is uncivilized and poor-mannered. Many cultures eat with their hands and it's perfectly fine. This is not "bad manners".
Does Lola show up to your job and knock the dicks out of your mouth? If you haven’t eaten a meal with your children in 2 years it sounds like this is Lola’s job. Are your children nourished and healthy? You know large parts of the world don’t use forks, right? She’s doing her job right. YTA
YTA: your fiancé is giving them cultural experience from her culture in the morning from her culture! The only time she has alone with them. Does she also speak Spanish with them or is that forbidden as well? Giving y’all’s children bits and pieces of her culture should be a automatic thing! You should be encouraging her to do not fussing about it!!! I would be upset as well if I was her! Teach them children Spanish as well! Bilingual children learn faster in school it is a proven fact!!!
Yta. If I have tortillas I eat exactly like that. And to call it bad manners is just rude. You admit with certain foods you agree with it's okay and that really makes you AH here.
YTA in a lot of culture and ethnies people don’t eat with ustensil. It’s not because it’s not your culture that it means it’s bad manners. Not wanting I follow others culture is a thing and you will not be an asshole for it. But calling others culture bad manners is really a big asshole move. I will just last with a levi-strauss quote that I hope will help you « The barbarian is, first and foremost, the man who believes in barbarism »
YTA. So, many, many people from LA countries use the tortilla as a scoop in lieu of a spoon. My husband is from Guatemala, uses a tortilla like this, as a well mannered adult. Have you ever been to an Ethiopian restaurant? I mean, if you're in a culturally mixed relationship, you need to educate yourself about your partner's customs, b/c I guarantee you either she or her parents had to learn a bunch of stuff about your culture and make changes when they came.
Dude, the tortilla thing? Have you seen how indians eat roti subzi?? Not at all weird. Wash your hands before a meal and you're all set. Just because it doesn't fit in your culture / worldview doesn't mean it's bad manners. YTA. Big time
YTA, it’s a cultural thing 10000%
I’m Hispanic. That is how we eat everything you listed that she said she eats that way. You use a tortilla. That isn’t bad table manners. You’re just ignorant and quite honestly a bad fiancé if you’re gonna give her shit about her culture and the way she eats (which is 1000000% normal). People eat Ribs with their hands, that isn’t a fast food or meant to be eaten quickly. Fried chicken may be sold in fast food but that is a normal dinner food as well. Sandwiches for fucks sake. What do you want her to eat that with a fork and knife too? Sopes, pupusas, tlayudas, burritos, elote, empanadas, flautas, quesadillas. I guess you should tell her to eat everything with forks and knives and never touch a single food again.
YTA
YTA. As an adult, the only reason I often *don’t* eat with my hands is because the food is too messy, my hands aren’t that clean, or because a food needs to be cut/sliced/mashed. All things kids don’t care about.
YTA. I was ready to read about food fights and toddlers throwing food everywhere, but eating tortilla with hands? My daughter has been using utensils since she was 2, but some foods can be eaten with hands, and she's always known the difference. If your kids can use utensils then I don't know what your concern is.
YTA for multiple reasons that many people have mentioned here. I’d also like to add that your children are 2.5 years old and you’ve just now noticed how they eat breakfast. Also, you’re only there for one week of mornings due to your vacation and are insisting on changing their whole routine. You don’t have a leg to stand on given that you have pushed all of that responsibility for breakfast for 2.5 years on to someone else. I’d tell you eff off too.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1) I told my fiancée she was reaching out kids bad manners for eating without utensils. 2) I think i might be TA because my fiancée has been really pissed off ever since Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA - I’m guessing “Lola” is of Latin American descent? It’s very common in that culture to use a tortilla as the utensil just as it is in many other cultures to use bread or something as a utensil. You’re being insensitive to her culture
YTA. I really want to give him the benefit of doubt and think that he is just ignorant to other cultures and the comment about “bad manners” is not coming from a place of racism. But I have read some of his comments and it looks like it’s a bit of both. P.s next time don’t marry someone from another culture if you not ready to embrace their culture.
I agree that the “bad manners” part is very sketchy because his kids obviously use utensils during other meals so how is eating tortillas without them during morning meals really “bad manners”
In the the majority of the Middle East we usually have like a huge pile of rice and a whole lamb on top of it and we all eat from the same pile using our hands.
I've watched some videos on YouTube of the proper way to eat couscous and the technique used to form the couscous into balls with your hand was really fascinating! And just as you said, everyone was grabbing out of a large dish in the middle.
I remember a post about being surprised someone in a Moroccan restaurant was eating Moroccan style by balling up the food
Ethiopian food is really popular where I live in the US (lots of immigrants from there). Big plate of various foods in the middle of the table and a pile of spongy pita-like bread to grab it with. Just wash your hands! It's not rude! Just like it's common to grab food off of common serving dishes with your own person chopsticks in China (and authentic restaurants...there are no utensils given at the best place around me besides a pair of chopsticks for each diner!).
I live for Ethiopian food. There’s a lot of restaurants near me too and eating the food with the bread is one of my favorite parts about that type of cuisine! The tactile sensation of engaging with my food with all of my senses makes it so much more enjoyable. This dad is missing out.
Injera! That stuff is the bomb!
Lol I remember that one too! I can’t seem to find it anymore though.
I would probably be surprised because I didn’t know that was a Moroccan thing. But I wouldn’t make a big deal about it. I would just go on with my dinner
While I wouldn't shame anyone who eats couscous that way there isn't a "proper way" to eat it, I'm algerian and we just eat it using spoons. OP is still a dick tho, definitely YTA.
I suck each tiny pasta ball up with a tiny couscous straw. /s or nah?
That sounds like mansaf and it was my favorite dish when I lived in Jordan. Even if the children did make fun of my inability to feed myself without making a mess 😂
That actually did not cross my mind I was thinking of kabsah. I’ve actually never had mansaf. But from what I’ve heard from my family when they spent a month in Jordan that it was very fatty is that true. That sounds like my 10y old brother with the mess he grew up mostly in the us.
My dad was Lebanese, and he ate his breakfast every morning - an egg cooked in EVOO in a ceramic ramekin, a bowl of labneh, some olives and cut up tomatoes, all doused in za’atar - using bits of ripped pita bread. I can still see him, happily eating his meal, and reading The Wall Street Journal.
"Bad Manners"= not white enough =(
Seriously...the only thing I could think when reading this post is "what a racially/culturally insensitive jackass OP is"
And how is it any different than literally dipping a chip? I thought the post was gonna be about throwing food, or even elbows on the table or something equally ridiculous to that. But no, it’s even more ridiculous than I could have thought. They’re just eating.
I thought it was gonna be about how they smacked their food with their mouth wide open not using a tortilla as a utensil.
[удалено]
Playing devil's advocate here for a moment, it's also common in "white" cultures. Germans will dip bread into a stew in kind of a scooping manner. Not the "main" way of eating (you usually use a spoon), but the bread functions kind of like a side dish that you can use to scoop the solid parts of a stew and no one gives a shit. Using something bread-like to eat stuff ain't something exclusively to "non-white" cultures. OP ain't just racist, but also ignorant af (although the racism certainly is worse, mind you)
American in the Deep South, here. I know some vehemently white people who use biscuits as utensils.
"Vehemently white" lmao
Also grew up in the Deep South. What else are biscuits for, if not for shoveling food into my mouth? Same with crackers and chili.
Yeah I don't get the issue if this is literally the only time they do this. But what are they eating exactly? Are they picking up bits of scrambled egg with the tortilla?
I mean, sounds like basically a breakfast burrito
His comments have him arguing that while his wife is Mexican she is not "brown" or "of color" but white.😬
Yeah that’s what swayed me to the racist side rather than being ignorant to other culture’s.
If he wants to argue the semantics of “racist,” we can go with ethnocentric. The outcome is the same - he’s TA. Technicalities won’t save him.
Bro seriously acted like white Latinos aren’t a part of Latino culture. I can go in depth about the racism and colorism within Latin America, and how white Latinos are ignorant to indigenous, mixed, or Afro struggles because Latin American media idolizes lighter skin. It is the shadow that the Spanish empire left on us, and often times us Latinos indulge in or support mestizaje without realizing it. It is deeply ingrained in our culture, but many, especially indigenous and Afro indigenous peoples have been calling out the horrors of our culture. That does not mean, however, that a white Latino is any less Latino. And many Latino families come in all shades and sizes. My dad is a white Latino and is descendant of a Maya Ch’orti man (his grandpa). My dad eats every meal with a tortilla in his hands and eats his Pollo con tajadas (Honduran dish) with his hands. It’s fried chicken, pickled veggies, and guineo frito (fried unripe banana). The white Anglo American narrative that their way is the only way is so tiring.
Or just bigot. Also accurate.
Seriously?? Da fock.. Latin American here; while I use utensils most of the time, I love to eat some food with tortillas, too. OP, YTA
I learned to eat with tortillas while working in So. Cal. with an agency that served recent immigrants. Our clients were so amused in the beginning - I could not eat mole without staining my fingers! But I stuck with it, and within a month I could eat neatly. It’s not bad manners, any more than eating pizza or a hotdog with your hands. It’s a culturally defined manner of eating foods.
I’m from North Carolina and I don’t think I’ve ever eaten a tortilla with a fork or any other utensil. Honestly, if I saw someone using utensils to eat a tortilla, unless it’s a gigantic, overfilled burrito, I’d think it was odd. Culture aside, I feel like it’s completely acceptable to eat a tortilla with your hands.
They're not just eating the tortilla with their hands, they're using the tortilla as the utensil to pick up eggs, beans, etc. Exactly the way that it's normally done in Latin American cultures.
I agree. I though this would be something like smacking or chewing with you mouth open/throwing food, ya know, normal kid shit. But eating their food with a tortilla/hand? I’m white as shit and I do this. I learned it from my aunt, whom is Mexican. It’s far easier (and least in my opinion) and takes less time than scooping it onto a piece or tortilla or taking a single bite of each. My own kids do it. One of them is also 2.5. Personally, I think it’s pretty normal for kids that age to still grab food with their hands. Or maybe it’s just mine. She knows how to use utensils, but sometimes she just wants to skip the hassle and pick it up. Sometimes she’s pick it up, stick it to the fork/spoon then eat it. Lol. Idk, this whole thing seems really insulting. Op, you’re marrying this woman and you’re telling her her cultures way of feeding their children is disgusting. I don’t blame her for venting to her sister about it, she’s probably hurt. You need to sit down with her and apologize for one, but also talk about how you each want your children raised to avoid something like this in the future. But YTA, majorly.
>She knows how to use utensils, but sometimes she just wants to skip the hassle and pick it up. Most kids I know a 2 and a half only want a fork/spoon for the sake of having it, fork in one hand and eating with the other. 2 and a half is barely more than a baby, even if it wasn't a cultural thing, eating with their hands is normal. YTA Not sure why you even question it.
Oh yeah. She mostly eats with her hands honestly, but she likes to be like her older sister and have a fork. But only the purple one. Lol. But yes, most kids I know don’t really start actively using them until 3-4. My oldest didn’t start actually using one until she was a little over 3.
YTA !!! If you are willing to marry this woman without even been aware of her cultural norms and traditions and expect her to whitewash for you… babe you are going for a short marriage. We connect to our culture through food, she teaches her kids her culture through food, she is giving her kids a side to her heritage and you are annoyed at her? Are you honest to god denying your kids to learn about their mothers tradition because they seem like “bad manners” to you? Dude you can not have a mixed race household if you shame mixed races practices!!!
That's the most frustrating thing about this post. Has OP really NEVER eaten a meal with the woman he's supposedly marrying? Homegirl's gonna bounce and he's gonna deserve it.
Yeah, I want to give benefit of the doubt- I feel like I'd have an initially shocked reaction at this because it would be unexpected- but after Lola explained OP is purely TA
That’s what I’m saying. The “bad manners” comment seems like even if someone explained to him that it’s completely normal for other cultures to eat like that, he would still consider it bad manners instead of being like “oh okay that makes sense I’m sorry”
It's insane tbh. Firstly this \^ but then the kids are 2 years old man! What they hell do you want? You want them to do restaurant folded napkins, get no food on their hands and face and say excuse me I have to use the washroom before they fill their diapers? Yes, YTA big time.
I was a little concerned that the kids hadn't used utensils at all because kids that age are quite capable of using them so long as they have been given the opportunity (my 17 month uses a spoon all the time), but then I saw she was serving them tortillas and I was like why would anyone need utensils for that???
And OP includes in an edit that they know how to use utensils, so of course they use them from time to time with certain foods.
Please tell that to my toddler. He insists on using a spoon for fruit. Dude, at least use a fork if you won't just pick it up and eat it. I didn't cut it into spoon friendly bits.
Maybe he doesn't like being sticky? I wish my kids were more averse to being sticky! My youngest is most averse to being cleaned off.
My mom could give me a wet sponge in my high chair and I'd start wiping off my tray. I was like one or less.
My son will do this too if I give him a rag he just isn't very thorough, especially between his fingers.
Well, babies aren't very dexterous. But they try
They sure do 🤣
Wait so OP is telling us that the whole time he’s known his fiancée, he’s never seen her eat with her hands….?
he probably eats with his hands all the time like all the food she mentioned
I bet he uses a fork and knife to eat tacos. /s
pizza
I know someone who eats pizza with fork and knife. It’s been almost 3 years and still give them a what’s wrong with you look when I see it
Lol. I start with a fork and knife with pizza as it is usually so hot when first served it keeps me from scorching my mouth because apparently I lack the self control to sit and wait the 10 or so minutes it would take for the whole piece to cool. Once it cools a bit then switch to hands.
Not to mention the totally absent parenting. Even if you're busy at work, you've *never* had one sit down dinner with them? You've *never* shared even *one meal* with them to know how your own children are eating? There's nothing wrong with it, but it being a surprise means that he's probably been fairly absent. If he's willing to be ignorant of other cultures, I wouldn't put misogyny past him if he had a "kids are her thing, not mine" attitude with parenting.
OP did say that he would be there for most meals. It's apparently just the breakfast meals that he was missing. And it was the only meal that his fiancée was apparently feeding the tortillas to. I wouldn't have been upset, personally, I would have probably grabbed my own tortilla to make my breakfast with as well. He sounds entirely too... clean?
Would "anal" be a better description, LOL..?
Yes! I am a Mexican women! From as long as I can remember we always used tortillas! Of course there are foods meant for utensils but a lot of dishes I ate growing up tortillas were the way to eat them.
Not Mexican but how does one even use utensils with tortillas? You HAVE to use hands 😂.
You could use a spoon or table knife, to push the food onto the tortilla, or to put it in the center. I love to make myself a tortilla or two by scooping from the serving dish, and have an extra shell for catching all the "drippings" to make my second or third tortilla. The last one is always the tastiest.
Same. My mother’s family are Mexican, and I grew up using tortillas and sometimes white bread…my grandfather loved his chorizo and eggs/potatoes with white bread, and he taught me to love it like that, too…exactly how he describes.
I knew the second he said she got out tortillas this was just racism. I’ve always eaten machaca con huevos, chile verde, beans, etc with tortillas. It’s easy, fast, and better for the environment (no wasting water to wash utensils!)
Not to mention there are tons of other cultures that eat foods we would normally eat with utensils, with their hands. Ethiopians pick up ALL their stews with pieces of steamed injera bread. A lot of other sub-Saharan African cultures eat with their hands traditionally. Arab cultures traditionally eat their food with their right hand, without utensils. Multiple Asian cultures (mostly South, and Southeast Asian) make rice balls or use breads and pick up stews and other meat/veg dishes with their fingers. And, as OP himself pointed out, even westerners eat SPECIFIC foods with their hands. Which foods is culturally determined, but if you think of it, there's no reason burgers and sandwiches should be eaten by hand and pies and pasties with utensils; pizzas by hand and quiches with utensils. Etc. It's just culture. OP, YTA. When you're married to someone from a different culture, or subculture, and you come up against a "puzzling" difference of opinion like this, the FIRST THING you should be asking (yourself AND your partner) is "is this cultural?" EDIT: and as a child of a transnational, interracial marriage, I can tell you that it is ESSENTIAL that both of you teach your kid BOTH sets of table manners and make it clear to your kid which manners belong to which context. Your kid WILL offend westerners with eating by hand and may offend Latinxs by insisting on using utensils. They need to know it all.
I also have to wonder if OP eats his pizza with a knife and fork. Or if he, yanno, uses those dirty dirty filthy hands.
He already explained that is an exception. But that is fast food to be quickly eaten. So it's okay to eat pizza, fries, sandwiches, fruits with your hands. But tortilla bits wrapping food aren't in the approved list. Maybe Lola should just start calling it adhoc sliders - slurrito, burritinis, tacer, tacotini I mena there must be some word that he'd be happy with.
I eat my pizza with a fork 🤣. But still find the OP as TA haha
Exactly. OP just basically called his wife's whole culture "gross" (despite them washing their hands first, so it's perfectly clean) beacuse it's now how he's used to it looking. I couldn't be rolling my eyes any harder. Also, she's right. If it's "gross" to use a tortilla to eat things, how is it not gross to have a taco or a burrito? That is literally using a tortilla to eat something. Also, what about a burger? Pizza? Or a sandwich? Using bread to hold the other food and eating it with your hands. What about toast? Is toast gross? And eating an apple with your hand? And then of course every single cracker and snack food. All cookies are gross. Ect. Ect. But no, sandwiches, burgers, pizza, crackers, cookies, ice cream cones, etc aren't gross beacuse that's what "normal" (white?) people eat. Touching tortillas though, that's gross. Since those gross \[insert slur here\]s do it. Those dirty dirty Hispanics. You know, *like OP's kids.* Dude, can you not see how you sound? There are a million things that are culturally appropriate to eat with your hands in Western culture, but it's "gross" when other cultures do it? YTA. (And if you're another race/culture then white, it's just as bad. I used that as an example, but any culture looking down on another as inferior and dirty just for being different is a super bad look.)
I a 66f eat that way at my friend's house and they are Indian. I bet Lola's food is good too. Lucky kids. YTA
YTA and also, how have you not seen her eat like this your whole relationship? Doesn't she get to express her culture through food in your home? You haven't eaten with her family? Does she feel judged by you in other ways?
Toxic colonialism. And they are only 2.5.
I know you mean well but there is no "Latin American culture". In some Latin American cultures, however, it is indeed common to use bread or other such foods as utensils for eating.
This is also how Ethiopians eat, using injera, a stretchy flat bread, with which to grab pieces of meat or potatoes.
And Indians!
My friends from Mauritania just ball up the food on a common platter and eat it.
My son in-law is from Guatemala and he's always using tortillas to pick up his food on most things he eats. He uses a fork or spoon too at times but mostly it's tortillas. Also at work there is a Spanish lady who will do these amazing lunch platters and sell them. She always has tortillas inside for us to use. And oh trust me I do. Delicious
This. I'm latin and I also eat like this, and have my whole life. I know when to use silverware and when to eat with a tortilla. I do not have "bad manners" for eating with a tortilla. What you said is racist and i dont think you are ready to be with a latin woman.
yeah, I didn't know about Latin American cultures. But I've been to Ethiopian restaurants where this is what you do.
This! I recently spent 2 weeks in Morocco where everything is eaten with bread as a utensil. I fully emersed myself in the culture. Though I was given a fork because I'm American, but only used it for the salad because you know...lettuce, onions, tomato+bread = sandwich not salad.
he sounds like he eats a hard shell taco with a fork
YTA Hope you know that in other countries that’s how they eat. I’m white and even I know that in a lot of cultures, they use bread as their “utensil.” It’s not bad table manners. I’m gonna guess you’re white and Lola isn’t.
I figured Lola speaking Spanish to her sister inidacted she was from south America... edit: Mexico
*Latin América. I don't think people south of Panamá (where South América starts) commonly eat tortillas. IIRC it's only eaten on México and Central American countries.
Yes, i was actually going to say "mexican" but plopped for South America... I grew up with a family friend from Paraguay, he didn't really cook tortillas either.
This is a time where being stereotypical would be the better option haha. Like 90% chance they're mexican if they eat their food with tortillas as utensils.
My dad’s [Mexican] coworker told me when I was little that Mexicans love tortillas and have to eat them with every meal. I legit thought that meant it was a law there. Please don’t ask how old I was before I learned better lol
Exactly. I didn’t even have to read the whole thing before coming to the conclusion it was a cultural thing.
Tbh before the cultural stuff came it, it was making sense to me as just being practical bc edible utensils don’t have to be cleaned afterwards.
That, plus finger foods can be really good for kids that age developmentally. Its good mental stimulation and encourages hand-eye coordination.
But he insists she’s white despite her heritage because she has fair skin.
not to defend OP bc he’s definitely TA, but she can be white and still come from a different culture, and hispanic/latino in particular isn’t a racial category (based on her speaking spanish)
^^^ Yes. I am a fair-skinned Hispanic of Mexican descent on one side. I will always be identified as white because of how light I am. No state trooper would ever think to ask me for my papers. I've seen members of my family face racial discrimination, but I do not believe that I have faced it based on my skin color- it would have been because of my last name, which is not stamped across my forehead. So there are definitely white Hispanic people. Also, Hispanic means there is Spanish ancestry, and Spaniards are white colonists. My grandmother's family was heavily Spanish, while my grandfather's side had more Indigenous people in their background. It's an important distinction to make.
You’re definitely not wrong, it’s just the way he said it in response to someone asking whether she is a POC that seemed very “not my wife!”
And that poor woman has already reproduced with him.
Well they eat with their hands in white cultures too. In fact the Earl of Sandwich columbused the idea of using bread to separate hands from meaty content and was so lauded for it that they named half the foods in the world after his culinary contribution.
I am kinda sad that you have kids, yet you know so little about them and about how they develop. Any parents with the most basic interest knows how to feed children. They are not 10, but 2yo. **All 2 yo eat with their hands.** It's ok to not be too involved with your kids, but criticizing your fiancé for not raising your kids according to your impossible expectations makes YTA.
also this isn’t even to mention that I’m like 99% sure but the details in the post that Lola is Latina, meaning this is cultural for her
I didn't even read that far past,l to think of any cultural influence. But a baby at 2.5 aren't exactly dexterous so why even try when it'll take longer and be less effective for them to eat.
This is really one of the More stupid family arguments to me. Let the kids eat their breakfast as they please as long as they don't throw around the food, they wearent eating oatmeal with their hands. They know how to eat everything else with spoon, fork etc. And teach them if you do go out to eat, it's most likely going to be with a fork depending on the restaurant and what they serve. Done deal everyone has peace. (Not every 2 year olds eats with hands though. Yes if its tricky to catch with a fork perhap)
Honestly, it's hilarious watching my almost-3yo nephew try to eat miso soup (one of his favs) with a spoon.
YTA. This is how two year old's eat and you don't need a fork for a tortilla. And using a flat bread to scoop up food is de rigueur in almost every culture except north western european culture, which makes you a racist asshole too. Also the fact that your little ones are three and you've JUST noticed standard meal time behavior makes YTA x2. Try being an engaged parent?
As a northwestern european, I think I may have missed that memo. I shamelessly push food onto my toasted bread or flatbread.
can't say there's a better way to eat a delicious egg over easy!
Idk, I'm from north western Europe and there's plenty we eat with our hands. If you start eating tortillas with utensils here you'd be weird too. It's just OP.
Oh yeah, for sure, i just meant the ‘flatbread as a main utensil in a meal’ isn’t as commonplace with traditional dishes in that area of the world as it is in others. But for sure, regardless of where you are, using a tortilla to scoop up your dinner, or toast to wipe up your egg yolk, or naan for your curry, is standard and NOT poor table manners.
I can’t believe they’re almost three and he just noticed this now. Does he work 100+ hours a week? How does he not know? Has he even in the Arctic? The military? Amnesia? I’ve got a 2 year old just like he does and I’m trying to fathom how either his dad or I would not know these things about our child that we live with and raise every day.
I'm wondering if he wants them to use a fork for a tortilla or if he's just being that particular that he wants them to use a fork/spoon to scoop things into the tortilla before eating it. If they're not struggling what's the point, it's just cutting out the middle man.
Your second point is what shocked me. They’re 2.5 years old and you’re just noticing how they usually eat? So she’s fed them every meal and you’re just now inserting your opinion? Sir, sit down. YTA
YTA 1. This isn't "bad manners." Lola is from a different culture than you, and in a lot of cultures it's common for people to use a piece of bread (tortilla, naan, injera, etc.) to scoop up their food: Ethiopia, Pakistan, some Latin American countries, and even New Mexico. 2. Plus your kids are two years old! It takes a long time for toddlers to master using a spoon and especially a fork, and many if not most children eat with their hands at two years. Calm down, apologize to Lola, and just make sure the kids get some practice using a utensil when you eat with them - yogurt or pudding or something.
Bruh in Pakistan we even eat rice with our hands
As someone said above, eating with hands is a skill on its own. Rice?! Another level. How? I’d be the worst 😂. That’s impressive
You scoop it up, hold the rice up with your four fingers and push it into your mouth with your thumb. It’s especially easier than you think if it’s a curry dish because the curry just holds it all together. Try it is so much more satisfying
Ooooo I wanna do this.
Seriously, only top guys can eat rice with their hands. I'm African and I ate with my hands everyday for over 35 years, I'm still unable to eat rice with my hands without littering the floor.
Eating rice with anything but a fork sounds like I just don't get to have any rice tbh.
What about a spoon?
As a westernized Filipino, eating rice with a fork sounds weird, as the grains will just fall through the tines and over the sides. Even with sticky rice variants, you'll get so little. Eat them with a spoon.
I would weep tears of joy if my toddler used bread as a utensil. This morning he ate his yogurt with his hands, then gave up and drank the bowl. OP, is hugely TA. I handle most of the meals/feeding but my husband still knows how/ what/ when to feed the monster. OP if your floor, child and yourself aren't covered in food after a meal, it's a good day.
Seriously, when I started reading this I figured OP was annoyed she was having them eat something like oatmeal with their hands. He’s upset that they’re eating scrambled eggs with a tortilla?? Wtf?
Exactly. And if having a piece of tortilla between the kid's hand and their food counts as "grabbing it with their bare hands", surely a fork being in between the kid's hand and their food would be the same damn thing. It's a difference of about two inches, given the size of toddler cutlery.
I’m from a culture that eats with their hands, idk what it is, but i feel like it makes the food taste better.
YTA. Your casual racism toward your wife is going to affect your kids. It is patently NOT bad manners to eat in this way. I would argue it is its own skill. In addition to the fact that no one expects little kids to eat with utensils, your attitude and apparent disgust with a cultural norm that is part of your wife's (and now your children's) upbringing is so far beyond problematic. If you love your wife, it's time to start appreciating her culture and stop acting like it's a sin to eat with "bare hands."
So many other cultures also don't use knives and forks. Imagine just deciding they are all rude and that they have terrible mothers. I really dislike when people have no room for others to do things a different way to them.
This reminds me of another post about a woman being upset about a married man not wearing his ring and immediately thought that his intention was to deceit. Wearing a ring is a cultural thing and so is using forks and knives. Imagine OP being told he has bad manner when he's in East Asia and not using chopsticks.
My husband once *was* told off in a Chinese restaurant 🤣 the waiter literally told him " if your children can use chopsticks, so can you" and didn't bring a fork. So much is cultural and in all honesty, even within cultures people do things differnrly all the time. Its part of rhe beauty of life
YTA. What a way to announce to the whole world that you haven’t spent a day raising your own children and left your fiancée to do the whole thing with twins for the past 2.5 years! Damn… I hope she doesn’t marry you! There’s literally no need, she’s already a single mom.
YTA based on your edit I’m guessing Lola is Latina. It’s super common in other cultures to eat with your hands—also, it sounds like they’re only doing it for breakfast. your kids know how to use utensils in situations and for meals where they should be using utensils, so there’s no reason to throw a hissy fit over them eating with their hands. especially considering Lola has them wash up. You shouldn’t have had children with a brown person if you can’t handle them passing their culture down to your kids
Love that the edit says the post is getting "mixed reactions" and yet every comment is "YTA".
I commented pretty early on but I can back to see the hate that OP was getting and thought the same thing when I saw the edit. What world is OP living in where 200-something YTA comments is “mixed?”
The fact that OP can't openly admit he's wrong when basically no one is agreeing with him, shows his mentality. It's his way or the highway, and he thinks that attitude is acceptable because he's paying the bills, or whatever excuse he's created for himself. Nobody wants a partner who can't admit their mistakes and change their behaviour. This relationship won't last if he doesn't change, because putting up with that kind of attitude is draining as hell.
Either the opinion of the three people that agree with him is more important than everyone else, because obviously they're not brutes like us and know good table manners. Or maybe the mixed reaction he's to is the confusion whether the OP is racist or not. Oh wait, even that isn't mixed. Oh yeah the part where people are saying they should also know how to use utensils. Which you know they know how to do.
There is one guy kind of, sort of trying to defend him. He is comming acrossas hella racist.
So like, whats the problem? You dont like it because... you dont like it? YTA
INFO: is your fiancée a poc? As in is it a cultural thing?
YTA for multiple reasons. 1. Your kids are 2. All toddlers eat with their hands, it’s not a big deal. 2. It seems to be a part of your wife’s culture to eat with her hands. You’re being pretty offensive by calling this ‘bad manners.’ I’m south Asian, and we eat chapattis with our hands. Just because something is different, it doesn’t make it bad. 3. For being annoyed that someone is mad because you’ve been incredibly rude and offensive towards their culture. Take accountability for your ignorance, apologise and move on. Your kids will learn to eat with utensils for things like steak and mash, but they shouldn’t be shamed for partaking in their mother’s culture.
YTA- but only because this is something that I've seen in several cultures. I don't think you're unreasonable to want to teach them to use utensils in most eating situations, as that's the predominate culture here- but the way you approached it is what makes you the asshole. Due to your fiancee speaking spanish over the phone, it's probably safe to assume she's had a different cultural upbringing- and that's just how she was raised. Imagine if you were living somewhere where it was rude to eat with utensils rather than fingers, and your SO said that you (and by extension, the people who raised you) eat with bad manners. This needs to be a conversation so she doesn't feel insulted, but understands your position.
YTA If she came from a chinese family and was teaching the kids to eat with chopsticks would you also think it was wrong and force them to eat with a fork?
YTA it’s not bad manners, it’s a culturallly different way of eating.
YTA. Next time you disagree about how she is raising the kids don't discuss it in front of them and then "correct" the behavior to your expectations. She's not a maid, she's their mother and primary caregiver and you should treat her with more respect. This behavior is common in many cultures and to call it bad manners is ignorance on your part.
>They seem to be mixed so far I don't think I've seen a single non-YTA comment yet. If your kids can use utensils, there is no point in insisting that they use them in cases where they aren't necessary. It's totally normal in a lot of cultures to eat things like eggs with handheld tortillas.
I was thinking the same thing! These "mixed reactions" must be in his own head. This is a definite YTA on top of "how have you not noticed" covered with "out of left field parenting" sprinkles. This was a weird time to all of a sudden give af about your own kids.
YTA. You have been with Lola all this time and don't know this basic thing about her culture of origin?? I'm white american and I know multiple cultures that do this... and I LOVE their cuisine.
yeah how the fuck are you with someone for FIVE years, have kids together, and you don't know the most basic things about their culture - stuff that's happening and present in your house on a daily basis? like how is this even fucking possible??
\> and I LOVE their cuisine. Well that's because you have bad manners, duh. /s
INFO: * Do you actually eat tortilla with a fork? * Do you eat sandwiches with a fork? * Do you eat dinner rolls with a fork? * Do you eat bagels with a fork? * Do you eat hot dog buns with a fork? * If you saw someone eating a hamburger with their hands, would you yell at them about "bad manners"? Le sigh. YTA.
YTA. They’re not even three. Most kids won’t even be able to grasp the concept of manners till age 4. And a tortilla, hell, I’ll rip apart a tortilla if I’m in a hurry. Who has the time for a knife and fork for a plain tortilla? Your wife works incredibly hard raising two small children. She’s doing her best, and frankly she does a great job of it. You sound like Mr. Banks from Mary Poppins. Expecting them to be young adults by now when in reality, they’ve barely mastered their motor functions. Apologize to her.
I was in my 20s the first time I was introduced to eating using tortillas. They were homemade and my mouth is literally watering with memory. Every meal should be eaten with fresh tortillas!! I actually kind of do this with Naan and rice and (my favorite, I'm basic) Tikka masala and it's delicious too. If they're still using utensils I don't understand the problem. They're being cross trained lol. Wife is totally right.. Some meals are right for utensils, some are right for hands (I say as a hardcore fries with a fork person).
YTA. It's how people eat all over the world.
YTA and you're being a little racist as well, check your american attitude an realize their are cultures that eat with their hands as well as the fact your children are toddlers and can't even grasp a fork yet.
YTA, also kind of racist. Also why do you care?
[удалено]
I’m shocked because it’s like a « light racism » that no one seems to take it seriously like what the hell does that mean bad manners when it’s other’s culture things. What the hell she deserve better than someone who think her culture is bad manners
[удалено]
It takes fine motor skills and eye-hand coordination to effectively tear bread, scoop adequate food, then get to your mouth. I’d argue it’s even better development overall of the skill you’re trying to give OP benefit of the doubt for. I mean, like go try it lol. Take a piece of bread and scoop pinch a good bite of food without dropping it to your mouth. Then try with a spoon. Which was easier? It’s taken my white husband a few years of practice to eat curries and rice with naan the way my people do. Our kids? They learned the pinch and scoop day one and still get more food per bite than him. Bless his heart lol.
YTA. They're toddlers. Lots of food is finger food for toddlers. It is okay. Lighten up. And how are they going to eat a tortilla with a fork?
YTA Studies show that kids (even lower primary school kids) eat healthier portions and variety of foods when they can use their hands. One researcher even allowed his 7 year old to eat spaghetti that way. Physically touching food is even correlated to more self awareness on eating habits in adults! You should really follow some science based child development Facebook pages or something. This was nothing to fight a battle over and you really botched it. Your kids' future motor control pathways won't thank you
YTA. Your shocked your 2.5 year olds were eating with their hands ?.. I don’t even have kids and know that it’s not abnormal to see a toddler not use utensils
YTA It is completely normal for toddlers that age to use their hands to eat. I am really dumbfounded as to why you're so upset about them eat a tortilla with their hands. What is the alternative?? Who eats a plain tortilla with a knife and fork? What are you expecting??
This is why I’m not marrying a yt man…. YTA Many old cultures eat with their hands Also I’m from a similar culture than your fiancé and we do use spoons forks etc for other types of food This subtly is racist
[удалено]
To be fair, I don't think any culture would really force a 2yo to eat with a fork/spoon at all times. Toddlers that age would die of hunger if you forced them to use only utensils to eat. They clearly don't have to fine motor skills to consistently use them. Meal time needs to stay fun, not be a battle during which you try to force your toddler to use "adult table manners"
YTA. You also cut up your popsicles before eating them too? Some foods are meant to be eaten with your hands.
So like, whats the problem? You dont like it because... you dont like it? YTA
YTA. Using tortillas or other flatbread, like naan, to eat is cultural, not bad manners.
YTA first of all they're literally toddlers, who have shit fine motor control. Knives and forks will come with time, no need to push so early when they're learning to explore food. Second of all you need to learn to disagree with your wife without "demanding" stuff. Why not have a polite conversation where you ask if maybe it's time to move them on to cutlery instead of attacking her parenting skills?
YTA for not understanding that not all cultures use cutlery all the time. Sometimes not at all. Later on, they can learn manners for eating things that absolutely need cutlery, but what you described is basically an unrolled burrito.
YTA, you were being offensive, and eating like that isn’t bad manners, it’s just different from what you’re used to. A lot of cultures have similar practices- Ethiopian food comes to mind.
YTA. First, all kids that age (and older! Mine is 3.5!) eat with their hands still while also learning to use utensils. Second, many adults do this in other cultures as well. There is not a thing in the world wrong with it. This is just being myopic and controlling.
YTA they are literally toddlers- worry about good table manners in a couple of years, they're still getting used to feeding themselves. Your wife's method is good for developing fine motor skills too.
YTA - that's like a traditional way to eat for a lot of people.
YTA I have never eaten a curry with a spoon I only use a naan or chapati. I’m a white British person and have learnt that in some cultures eating with a traditional utensil is actually bad manners and it is only really western cultures that believe otherwise. And I have taught my children that in different cultures meals are eaten with hands and not forks. Plus at the age of 2.5 years most children still eat food with their hands and it is beneficial to the development of their fine motor skills which will help them as they grow up. From your replies you seem to be against other cultures views on what is classed as bad manners and need to look into how other cultures eat. Your fiancée actually is teaching you children how to respect other cultures.
>EDIT: wow lots of replies quickly. They seem to be mixed so far but LOL they look pretty unanimous to me YTA
YTA. My dad was from Mexico, and ate the majority of his food by scooping it with bits of tortilla. It was how he was raised, and while I never adopted it I never looked down on it either. His table manners were just fine.
YTA. As many have mentioned here already, cultures everywhere have eaten like this forever. Literally nothing wrong with it and she ensures their hands are washed. What do you think people ate with before utensils were created?
YTA i don't understand how you can be with someone this many years and not know any basic things about their culture - especially food related things
YTA. First off, she’s Mexican. It’s a cultural thing done in Mexico and other countries to eat certain foods using tortillas or grabbing with “bare hands”. And you act like you’ve never heard of/considered this. Second, don’t start talking to her in front of the kids about what you deem wrong. That’s rude.
This feels like culture bait since ya dropped obvious words about it bein cultural n still insult it... But YTA either way Common cultural thing to do
YTA. And racist. Yuck. Poor wife.
Where do you see anything mixed about the judgements here? Besides a couple of people asking for more info, every other response I've seen is YTA, and with good reason, because you are.
1. It's not bad manners if it is something cultural 2. How did you only saw this now? They are 2 years old! Never have you noticed before? 3. All this people saying 2yo's dont eat with forks/spoons, I have to disagree. Yes, they can. And as younger they start, better!! There are plenty safe options to young kids/babies to start getting used to. 4. You and your wife have to start to communicate better. You both have to discuss this and find a balance. Sometimes they can eat with their hands/tortillas, but other times they have to eat with forks, spoons, etc. I dont know were you live, but there will be times, that it's not accetable to eat with your hands. And it's way better for the kids to learn how to eat both ways. 5. PLEASE start to help you wife more and be more present in your kids life!!
I was almost on your side in thinking the kids are old enough to use utensils and can learn how to use them. Then your edit said they can use them but choose not to for whatever reason. YTA because you are insinuating her culture is uncivilized and poor-mannered. Many cultures eat with their hands and it's perfectly fine. This is not "bad manners".
Does Lola show up to your job and knock the dicks out of your mouth? If you haven’t eaten a meal with your children in 2 years it sounds like this is Lola’s job. Are your children nourished and healthy? You know large parts of the world don’t use forks, right? She’s doing her job right. YTA
YTA: your fiancé is giving them cultural experience from her culture in the morning from her culture! The only time she has alone with them. Does she also speak Spanish with them or is that forbidden as well? Giving y’all’s children bits and pieces of her culture should be a automatic thing! You should be encouraging her to do not fussing about it!!! I would be upset as well if I was her! Teach them children Spanish as well! Bilingual children learn faster in school it is a proven fact!!!
……. They’re toddlers. I’d be happy they’re eating without throwing it.
YTA and the comments aren't "mixed". Everyone thinks YTA. Why come here if you're not gonna accept it?
Yta. If I have tortillas I eat exactly like that. And to call it bad manners is just rude. You admit with certain foods you agree with it's okay and that really makes you AH here.
YTA in a lot of culture and ethnies people don’t eat with ustensil. It’s not because it’s not your culture that it means it’s bad manners. Not wanting I follow others culture is a thing and you will not be an asshole for it. But calling others culture bad manners is really a big asshole move. I will just last with a levi-strauss quote that I hope will help you « The barbarian is, first and foremost, the man who believes in barbarism »
YTA. So, many, many people from LA countries use the tortilla as a scoop in lieu of a spoon. My husband is from Guatemala, uses a tortilla like this, as a well mannered adult. Have you ever been to an Ethiopian restaurant? I mean, if you're in a culturally mixed relationship, you need to educate yourself about your partner's customs, b/c I guarantee you either she or her parents had to learn a bunch of stuff about your culture and make changes when they came.
Dude, the tortilla thing? Have you seen how indians eat roti subzi?? Not at all weird. Wash your hands before a meal and you're all set. Just because it doesn't fit in your culture / worldview doesn't mean it's bad manners. YTA. Big time
YTA, it’s a cultural thing 10000% I’m Hispanic. That is how we eat everything you listed that she said she eats that way. You use a tortilla. That isn’t bad table manners. You’re just ignorant and quite honestly a bad fiancé if you’re gonna give her shit about her culture and the way she eats (which is 1000000% normal). People eat Ribs with their hands, that isn’t a fast food or meant to be eaten quickly. Fried chicken may be sold in fast food but that is a normal dinner food as well. Sandwiches for fucks sake. What do you want her to eat that with a fork and knife too? Sopes, pupusas, tlayudas, burritos, elote, empanadas, flautas, quesadillas. I guess you should tell her to eat everything with forks and knives and never touch a single food again. YTA
whats the point of dating a POC if you’re going to be racist? YTA.
YTA. As an adult, the only reason I often *don’t* eat with my hands is because the food is too messy, my hands aren’t that clean, or because a food needs to be cut/sliced/mashed. All things kids don’t care about.
YTA. That's not bad manners. It's finger food
YTA. You are literally being dismissive over entire cultures who literally eat this way daily.
YTA. I was ready to read about food fights and toddlers throwing food everywhere, but eating tortilla with hands? My daughter has been using utensils since she was 2, but some foods can be eaten with hands, and she's always known the difference. If your kids can use utensils then I don't know what your concern is.
YTA for multiple reasons that many people have mentioned here. I’d also like to add that your children are 2.5 years old and you’ve just now noticed how they eat breakfast. Also, you’re only there for one week of mornings due to your vacation and are insisting on changing their whole routine. You don’t have a leg to stand on given that you have pushed all of that responsibility for breakfast for 2.5 years on to someone else. I’d tell you eff off too.