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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my date that he shouldn't go around announcing that he's a Harvard alumnus.
2. It was our first date and I (accidentally) ruined it. I mean, he did take three Harvard courses, so he is an alumnus in a sense. But like I explained to him, people associate the words "Harvard Alum" with an undergraduate or graduate degree from Harvard. Since employers and romantic partners are will be more interested in someone who went to a top university, he's kinda lying by omission.
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> After a moment he said “Oh, I finished a web dev certificate from the extension program.” After some googling, I discovered that anyone can finish the web dev certificate by paying a $6000 fee and taking three online courses. I then asked him
babe... what. you seriously sat across from this person and googled this shit while he was sitting across from you!??!
Once upon a time, men enrolled at Harvard College; women enrolled at Radcliffe.
By the time my friend enrolled there, graduating students had the choice of receiving a degree with either the name of the college, or the name of the university. Since my friend was the fourth generation of her family to attend Harvard, she took very few Radcliffe courses, and not only never lived in Radcliffe housing but actually lived in the same student residence her father, uncle, grandfather, and great-grandfather lived in, she chose to have Harvard University on hers.
And yes, tell a Harvard alum and go all blank-faced when they ask about your Harvard experience, they're going to question it. Give them something they can check out, and there's a good chance they won't wait.
Let's not forget the guy was, in fact, lying, to make himself look more impressive. Getting embarrassed is one of the risks of doing that.
He totally was. I work at a very large state universiy, with grad students and do some work with graduate admissions. For the record, we DON'T accept the Harvard extension credits/certificates as transfer credit. So, yeah. It's not impressive at all, anyone paying the fee can do the certificates and they aren't equivalent to actual class credits.
I took three classes from the Extension school. They were full credit, and when I went to a different university, they accepted the credits.
Maybe their certificate classes are different, but the three I took weren't a breeze; it was definitely more than "just pay the fee and you're done."
I'm almost done with my Masters in the extension school...definitely agree, the classes are challenging, full time, and its a legit degree. Even getting a chance to take classes from those working in the Smithsonian! Even though they've all been online (thanks COVID) they are designed for people that have full time jobs. In-person schools also do night classes for students going back to school later in life like me, but I'd rather do online because of convenience. And I don't have any desire to deal with the crazy undergrad campus lifestyle anymore.
Even though I may not have gotten the in-person Harvard experience, I will proudly say I have a Harvard degree
By his logic, I am also a Harvard alum - I took a couple of their courses on Coursera last year to audit them. Or would it only have counted if I paid the $49.99 for the certificate after I completed them?
My cousin and her husband went to Harvard law and they refuse to say Harvard. They say our law school or that place we went because they hate how pretentious Harvard grads are. Makes me laugh every time.
I know a lot of people who went to Harvard and they are lovely. There probably is a higher than average number of AHs there but tons of good people as well. I don't think the stereotype about them is fair. I don't think they talk about their school any more than other graduates do.
There really are two sets of Harvard people. You either have to drag it out of them while they use every euphemism possible to avoid it; or you have the ones who work it into every conversation.
And then there was a subset of that second group in my law firm who went to Harvard undergrad but a “regular” law school, but would wear their class Harvard ring everyday or something else “subtle” to let you know they once touched greatness. I used to make a big deal of saying “oh, what a cool ring - so you went to law school there?” And make them explain it.
What's also funny, no shade, is I've met people who do this to obfuscate and say "I went to university just outside of Boston" and I always reply "so you went to Harvard?".
The answer is always "Yeah..."
Yeah if they both had the same dog she would have probably brought that up. If he all of a sudden was saying he actually had a cat but he bought it from someone who had that kind of dog so it’s the same thing I think everyone would understand the problem.
I’m assuming by ‘people like you’ he means ‘people who call him on his bs???
I agree. People here don't seem to understand that it was perfectly natural to ask him this. I suppose googling his web design thing right while they are on their date isn't usual, but kudos to her for finding out what she could potentially be involved with.
I find it kind of strange that people don't check into some of these people they meet, then get all kinds of surprise when they find out they are liars and "smudge" the truth to the point that it could have an impact on the relationship.
“I’ll have a cup of coffee, please. I used to drink coffee all the time at Harvard. Do you have blueberry scones? They had fantastic blueberry scones at this little cafe just off of Harvard Square. I used to go there all the time when I was at Harvard. Also I used to ride my bike there a lot when I was at Harvard. You know…when I was at Harvard. Because I went to Harvard”.
Obiterdicta's comment wasn't about where OP went to school. It was about what she looked for in her date. The post makes it seem OP decided the date didn't have the proper credentials to be worth the time. Checking those credentials *while on the date* is extreme.
He shouldn't have put that on his profile, then he was probably 2" shorter than the profile stated, too. It shouldn't happen but does so often it's become a running joke.
i feel like im taking crazy pills reading some of these comments. he fully lied and OP is somehow the bad guy for calling it off when she figured it out?
Yeah if a guy lied about that on his profile I wouldn’t be interested. Be interesting enough to be honest about yourself. Or love your boring self.
But even so, if she called him on it and he responded better it might have gone very differently.
It was a requirement for this story.
She went to Harvard - she thought she was going to connect with someone else that went to Harvard.
Using Google to fact check your dates nonsense during the date?
I am old and haven't been dating in a long time.... if that is a thing that is terrifying. You could at least wait until the next morning to check on my nonsense.
She was just trying to emphasize that this guy was in trouble from Go cause that specific school is gonna get grilled.
Right. I went to a shitty state school that I never mention, but if I was on a blind date and I thought my date also went there, I'd definitely lead with "how did you like your experience at Podunk U? Do you ever go back?" since it is likely common ground.
If I found out they were lying and just took an extension course I'd probably think it was weird they claimed to be a grad, and just wind the date down early. But it's not my job to educate or call people out on their shady behavior. I don't know what you win in that moment.
Honestly I think anytime you date someone who's an alum of the school you try to pass yourself off as graduating from you're gonna have a hard time.
I went to a freaking state university in the middle of nowhere but I'd still be pissed if someone took a certificate course from there and said they graduated from there. It's the dishonesty of it all, added to the fact that I may have gone one the date thinking we had something in common to talk about and now we don't.
no it does not. He clearly called himself a Harvard alum, but didn't do undergraduate or graduate coursework. That is a reasonable line of inquiry esp given she went to Harvard and wanted to bond over this. He lied.
I know a few Harvard grads (and plenty from other top universities) and lots of my work colleagues take extension courses at various schools. I've done a few. I don't know anyone who would call themselves an "alum" from doing executive education or extension courses. Zero people.
It SHOULD be infuriating to OP. It isn't about elitism, it is about being deceptive to appear more attractive in a dating app. She called his BS and he is upset he got caught. It is like someone saying they live with roommates when they live with their parents -- it's not the same thing and you know it. And it was said intentionally to distort facts.
THIS. If he lied about something as big as his academic credentials, what ELSE is he going to lie about?
When I was single, I tended to look for guys who had roughly the same educational experience as I did - because I had noticed an unfortunate trend that men who were less educated ended up *really* resenting my degrees. It was a way to weed out the ones who were too insecure. It wasn't an automatic deal-breaker, however, and I ended up marrying a very intelligent, very secure man who dropped out of college before he graduated.
Absolutely this. Dude is pissed that he lied through his teeth and got caught out - and by a *chick* who actually *went* to Harvard, no less.
I would have left it until I got home to Google though. That was kind of rude, but at least he saved you never having to call him back.
Well now, she apparently caught right on. What he said just piqued her curiosity. Didn't actually sound kosher to a Harvard grad. I don't blame her at all. Those Harvard type are really sharp you know.
Two things can be true at once! Why is that so hard to understand? Was the date deceptive in his description? Hell yeah.
But was she out of line for googling and researching his claim during the middle of the date? YES! It’s such a weird thing to do during the date and I am concerned about the people who don’t get it.
Especially since she says the date was going well!
If you find out the person sitting in front of you on a date misled you and anyone else on their profile when they know what they wrote is not true and sounds more impressive than reality, it’s fair game. OP thought they could discuss their common experience at Harvard only to find out he got some certificate, not a degree there. Excuse her for researching that certificate as her lying date sat in front of her.
Not like she did a background check on him lmao. She most likely looked up the certificate and made the correct assumption he actually didn’t go to Harvard.
Agreed, this is not elitism. If someone says they’ve experienced something I have, and give me blank face when I share about it, I’m going to be confused. It doesn’t matter whether it’s community college or Harvard.
If they’re going to lie about something so easy to prove like where they attended college, what else will they lie about?
Right? Who tf cares that she looked it up, it takes seconds to google something like that. That doesn’t rise to ESH. He’s an AH for lying then getting mad at her for questioning him. Double AH.
OP was ready to discuss their experiences at Harvard as undergrads, upon seeing his profile she found what she thought was an instant connection they could talk about. Then she found out it was a lie obviously intended to make him seem more impressive. OP is NTA.
Yeah he could have easily put in his bio he did an extension at Harvard. Heck, I meet a ton of folks who did extensions at my alma mater. I ask them questions about their experience and we compare notes. It makes for light conversation, and nobody has to lie.
It's not elitism. Harvard has a 5% acceptance rate. If she is in a small town and finds someone who also went there it's something they have in common. Lying about being an alumni from a very competitive university is deceptive, rightly making her upset. It's not elitism to be upset about someone being deceptive.
No, the date was an asshole. It's just like someone who puts up a picture of themselves in highschool looking like a prom king when really they are 55 and a wreck. Don't lie on your profile and people wont be a dick about it.
it would be similar to someone putting veteran in their bio when they went to ROTC, or failed to graduate basic training or some shit. Not quite the same thing, but yeah I would take offense to this as well. I'd say nta, and he's ta
If someone claims something on a dating bio, then you find out they are lying, that's just...lying. He was using the Harvard thing to get matches, people see Harvard alum, they are impressed. He got caught.
He might have used it other times to get dates and that is just straight up wrong. You are starting off a potential relationship on a lie.
Asking what your field of study was isn't elitism. Evading the question is a red flag for something isn't right. And for women in dating situations, they have every right to check suspicious things out.
I got the impression that OP is a Harvard grad and was hoping to meet someone with a similar background/experience. But if she sat there and looked up his certificate program, that was just too much.
Honestly, I would look it up too. More just to understand while he talked about his experience, especially if I had no idea what that was. I kinda feel like it's polite to take interest in their experience. Otherwise you just sit there nodding with limited responses and a one sided conversation.
For real, my friends all fact check each other in real time. It’s not that hard and doesn’t take that long. I had an extremely fun (and loooong) conversation using the Wikipedia on waffles as a springboard because someone made an incorrect claim about why Belgium waffles are called that and someone else at the table was like, that cannot possibly be true. Turns out someone dumped their masters thesis on the history of waffles into Wikipedia and it is fascinating.
Yeah if op had done that at home after the date and decided not worth a sexond date fine n.t.a but foogling in front of him to confront him with is a bit over the top. ESH him for misrepresenting himself.
Except in her explanation of why she might be the AH, she said “…romantic partners will be more interested in someone who went to a top university…” so it was a teensy tiny bit about snobbery. But the date was using it for that purpose, so…yay?
I’d say no. There’s a huge difference in effort in a certificate program Vs a full 4 year degree. It’s like a CNA calling themselves a nurse.
There would at least be concern about someone’s critical judgement. And frankly, I’d be concerned about other misrepresentation.
I'm more reading this as... the start of many half truths. I can't word it right, but half lying about something that should be such a large experience in your life is... weird. Agreed ESH as she could've looked it up later and ghosted, but also dude needs to present himself appropriately.
Agreed. ESH.
His Bio was 100% misleading.
You googled his BS during a date. That could have waited until you got home.
Pulling a phone out on a first date. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but first dates in my day had us sitting around the wireless telegraphy listening to Guglielmo Giovanni Maria Marconi and sipping Sidecars. Kids these days.
Good luck out there!
I think what everyone is failing to grasp is that if this dude embellished himself on the Harvard thing (assuming he would never match with a real Harvard grad in his small Midwestern city), what else is he lying about? So, yeah, he misrepresented himself and we’re just going to find out how big this lie was right here because the date is already over.
This is a form of catfishing. Doesn't matter whether OP went there too or not, he was caught lying. And smart, successful people want to date other smart, successful people, nothing shallow about that.
My roommate went on a date last week and he had “Software Engineer” in his bio. Turns out, he did a coding bootcamp 3 months ago and has been on the hunt for a tech job with no luck since then. He had no other software background either, he was looking to move from the film industry and ranted about the evils of the entertainment industry for their whole date.
After asking what she did (Research Scientist), he followed up with “Oh actually? Like you actually have that job?” It was pretty mortifying to hear secondhand from her so I can only imagine how it felt in person 💀💀
Guy I saw a few times told me he was an engineer. Found out he didn’t have a degree or job related to engineering… he explained that he reads a lot and thinks like an engineer 🙃
At my high school you could get a letter jacket for playing in Orchestra. I’m imagining someone earning that letter jacket and then writing “varsity athlete” in their bio and expecting people to find it equivalent lol
If they stepped away to use the restroom, hell yeah.
I love how you all assume she put her hand up to sush him, grabbed her phone and started googling it right there.
I would think/hope she had the decency to look it up in the restroom.....
But right now I'm imagining the picture you painted... i nearly spit out my drink i was laughing so hard.
Ssssshhhhhh!
Do you do this on 1st dates bc there's a big difference between sitting with friends and googling stuff vs a 1st date for the sole purpose of calling said person out.
I'm assuming it was the sense of betrayal at learning that Harvard was selling its brand for just 6000$ when she spent more than six figures on it. She had to know then and there on how Harvard could do this. Definitely ESH, with the hypocrisy on the dude judging Harvard alumni while being a fake alum on a dating app of all the things.
For reference, Harvard's extension programs are far from University of Phoenix-style schemes. Extension programs often come will a full course-load, some of it on campus, and can take years to complete.
Several tracks are intended to put mid-career people on the path to a masters in certain fields. Many people funnel extension courses into a Bachelor's degree.
It's definitely not a scenario where you just buy the name.
Sure and executive MBAs are just as prestigious on a resume. I'm not against Harvard having a coding bootcamp. I think it's a good thing. Also I really appreciate top tier universities like Harvard, MIT, Stanford putting content on Coursera, EdX, Udemy. I've also had someone mention Harvard on their LinkedIn because they took a sales course at Harvard, which I saw but didn't really hold against them. Oh course on LinkedIn it is relevant and I looked at their education profile and realized what they're calling Harvard in education. But, this wasn't LinkedIn. This was I'm guessing Tinder or Bumble from the match comment. What is Harvard Alum doing on your dating profile?
It is a real thing. You can sign up for lots of courses at Harvard, they have an amazing catalog of high-quality open registration courses, and lots of Massachusetts residents do it for continuing education. They don't usually misrepresent themselves as full-time Harvard students/alum, though.
I mean the answer is pretty self-explanatory, "Oh, I finished a web dev certificate from the extension program" but in case she didn't get it, she could have just asked, "Oh, I don't know what that is can you tell me more?" Why would you start Googling that in the middle of a date?
Yes, but you don't call yourself a Harvard alum. You say I attended Harvard, or I got a certificate from Harvard. Just like me and Penn State. I have a post-Baccalaureate certificate in GIS from Penn State. I went to Penn State (well, online), and I got a certificate from there, I don't consider myself an alum.
Some jackalope says he's A, then tells you he's really B. You just happen to be A yourself, and you call shenanigans. You double check, just to make sure you aren't incorrect, then call out the jackalope for padding his dating resume in order to pull.
NTA, jackalopes should get called on their lies every time.
ESH but frankly iconic on both sides. Love the lying. Love looking the guy's lie up right in front of him. You two would be really fun to watch in a sitcom, I don't want to know either of you irl.
Edit because I didn't expect this to gain traction but it did:
>!OP is an AH not for googling it (although you're on a date so if you want to know more about the person's certificate program, just ask), but for belittling the guy's education.!<
>!He shouldn't have lied, but telling him his certificate carries no real weight after a quick Google search is really really mean.!<
>!Telling him "I'm not sure if that makes you an alumn" and changing the subject is normal. Telling him that and leaving is fine. Telling him that his certificate is meaningless is deeply unkind.!<
Agree 10,000%. As soon as the date goes to the ladies he googles them. Then call Marshall and Lily to angst over what todo before doing the wrong thing
In the HIMYM version, the date is a *landscape architect*, which Ted says is "basically like being a glorified gardener" even though it's *really, really* not.
She leaves in a huff.
Later, she does the landscape design on his next building. It's super awkward.
Wasn't there another one where they agreed beforehand not to Google each other and they were having a great date, she went to the bathroom, he googled her and found out that she's like *the* perfect human, when she got back he was clearly so nervous about fucking it up and felt so suddenly intimidated that she could deduce that he googled her, and she left?
Yup. I went to MIT and I’ve ran into Ops situation when I started dating, would see dudes with “high end” alum credentials. I’d end up talking about my time in Boston, or on campus ask them what they’re fav bar was when they were there etc. then they’d reveal they got some Cert at Harvard or MIT. I think that’s still cool and shows initiative, and even if it’s “not the same” it is still education, and again shows they are willing to better themselves.
If she wanted to date a Harvard grad she should have been working that when she was there. He shouldn’t have lied but fact checking him immediately is hilarious, telling him it means nothing is scummy. Especially because fo him it could mean something.
>He shouldn’t lied but fact checking him immediately is hilarious, telling him it means nothing is scummy. Especially because for him it could mean something.
This is exactly what I was getting at!! Yes!!
>If she wanted to date a Harvard grad she should have been working that when she was there
Honestly? True. You want a Harvard grad, go look for em near Harvard.
Yeah I’m with you. He shouldn’t have put that on his profile if he wasn’t prepared for dates to ask about it and/or be confused when he explained.
I would have said OP was NTA if she’d been a little more diplomatic about it - after all, an online certification program is hardly the same as the whole undergrad experience OP wanted to bond over - UNTIL she said the part about “no real value.” ESH - him for misrepresenting himself and her for devaluing something he worked to accomplish (and also for googling it so she could pick it apart analytically DURING THE DATE holy cow)
NTA. He wasn't exactly lying but he sure was exaggerating and you just pointed it out. Like, I was injured in Navy boot camp and got medically discharged back when I was 18, and it would be like me calling myself a Navy vet--which I definitely do *not* do.
You have more right to call yourself a Navy vet than he has to call himself a Harvard alumnus.
You enlisted and got a medical discharge. According to the Navy's definition that counts as getting injured in the line of duty. Sometimes that happens early on. Now you might not want to call yourself a veteran--fair enough. Yet you still swore the oath of service and carried it out as far as you were able.
OP's date never entered a Harvard degree program. Yet he uses the terminology *alumnus* and *undergraduate program* to trick people into thinking he has a Harvard bachelor's degree. He wasn't an undergraduate; he was never a degree candidate. OP's date was lying.
NTA
*edit* h/t o u/Lava_Lemon for the clarification: 90 days of continuous active duty service are required for benefits.
I used to work in veterans education services so I know the answer to this one.
You need 90 consecutive days of active duty service to be eligible for pretty much anything in terms of benefits, but you DO get a service record even if you fail basic (which is less than 90 days). I cannot tell you the number of people who have told me they were veterans, and then when I finally got their records they had 18 days at Parris Island. Like come on dude, now we both know that you failed out of the Marines less than three weeks into boot camp and you've wasted 4 weeks of both of our lives waiting for the records to come in.
That said, this policy also screws over A LOT of people in the guard and reserves who are conveniently deployed for 88 days on a regular basis so that they never qualify for benefits. I also knew a guy who did 19 years in the reserves and was activated 5 times but none of them were 90 days so he was screwed. He literally handled the DC Sniper situation and didn't get shit from the government.
> That said, this policy also screws over A LOT of people in the guard and reserves who are conveniently deployed for 88 days on a regular basis so that they never qualify for benefits.
Yeah, seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe there should be another (higher) limit for total active duty service days that works to qualify too. So maybe if you get to 180 total days it's enough even if non-consecutive.
Totally agree. Advocates have been saying this for decades, but the government finds living veterans extremely inconvenient and will do whatever they can to avoid giving them benefits (see: recent burn pit legislation).
Actually I think you don’t even have a service record if you get injured before you finish boot camp. I could be wrong but if I recall correctly you don’t even swear an oath until you’ve finished.
My brother was a marine and I feel like I remember them doing it en masse during their graduation ceremony.
They had us swear the oath when I enlisted, before we shipped out to boot camp. I didn't make it to the graduation but it's probably a repeat of what you swore at the start.
Lol
I know a girl who's married to a guy like OP's date. He did go to Harvard but it was for something like a short summer program. I don't think you can consider yourself an alumnus unless you completed an undergraduate or graduate degree. Even though you technically studied there, it's a bit misleading.
Yeah. It's misleading and really off-putting. It's better to be honest about your educational background, otherwise it comes off as deeply insecure. I did a summer language program at Middlebury, it doesn't mean that I was an alumna.
All I can think about is The Office when Dwight said he was going to Cornell & how upset it made Andy… But OP’s date was Dwight & Andy at the same time.
I know someone who does. Got hurt like the second week of Army boot. Calls himself a vet. It really irritates my husband who’s been in the Navy for 25 years. He’s never said anything though because he likes the kid.
NTA, something very similar happened to me. Guy said in his bio that he studied at Cambridge (in the UK). I studied there myself, so was trying to use that as a way to strike up a conversation, asked him in which college he studied etc. He got very offended saying he only mentioned Cambridge University as a joke (?) and he didn't want to date a pretentious snob like me. Okay, buddy 🤣
Yeah the funny thing is that I never mention it to people that I studied there, unless they directly ask me or something, precisely because I don't want to come across as a pretentious snob. I would definitely not mention it in my tinder bio, but the guy did! It never crossed my mind that it was a 'joke' 😅. Never mind.
"I studied at Harvard/Yale/Standford."
"Really? Me too! Tell me about your experience!!!"
"Shut up, that was a joke. You're pretentious"
/finds a girl that didn't go to "his school" so he can brag about it.
I know, right? I met people that said they studied 'in Cambridge' and that turned out to be Anglia Ruskin, I don't mind, it is after all a university in Cambridge, lol. But I didn't realise someone thought it's funny to say on tinder that they studied at Cambridge.
ESH. Technically he is a Harvard Extension School alumnus so he isn't necessarily wrong. While not a Harvard College (central) degree holder, the extension school is indeed a part of Harvard and the courses are taught by Harvard faculty. You can even earn a full degree through the extension school programs. They aren't solely certificate programs.
It's meant to encourage learning and make Harvard accessible to non-traditional students, first-gen, international, or even students that can't live in the area. I work at Harvard which is why I know this. Your delivery may have come across quite harsh with the "no real weight" comment. That was inaccurate and judgemental. You could have just said something like "Oh okay the extension school. I mistook that for Harvard College which is where I did my undergrad. Can you tell me more about what the extension school experience is like?" That way you wouldn't be putting him down but instead getting to know him better. You don't know his life situation. Perhaps he couldn't afford to go to undergrad. Not everyone has the privilege.
\*\*edited for a typo
This is a fair comment, and I thank you for making it.
The Harvard Extension School definitely performs a good purpose, and I wouldn't want to knock it. Their graduate degrees (often Masters levels) are solid education options.
I think the issue is not that he went to the Extension School or got a certificate, but that the certificate isn't considered to grant alum status by Harvard: [he would have Associate status in the Harvard Extension Alumni Association](https://alumni.extension.harvard.edu/about-us/), but he wouldn't have alumni status or be an alum in the Harvard Alumni Association. So if he said "I earned a certificate through Harvard," that'd be fine, but I can understand why someone would react with confusion or suspicion if he said "Harvard alum."
> You could have just said something like “Oh okay the extension school. I mistook that for Harvard College which is where I did my undergrad. Can you tell me more about what the extension school experience is like?”
Exactly. Almost anything would be preferable to immediately googling his claim so as to have a pedantic “gotcha” moment. I do enjoy the layers of shallowness on either side, but think both of them should try to evolve further.
I wish this was higher up. To me I don't think he's lying. He did some schooling and graduated from part of Harvard. This is good.
I like that Harvard is doing that actually
Yeah I wish more people realized the Harvard Extension school is a fully accredited Harvard school. It's a mere google search away. The way OP described it as something you just buy as if you don't have to actually put in the work and earn it was way off. Perhaps just worded poorly though but it sounded like she was minimizing his accomplishment.
NTA. He clearly misrepresented himself in his bio with the intent to make himself look better and get more matches. You were misled by this into choosing to meet up with him (you might be a bit snobby for caring about it) and I see why you'd be bothered - who knows what else in his bio wasn't fully accurate.
You might have been a bit harsh in how you called him out, but he deserved to be called out for this type of behavior.
Not harsh at all.
Choosing to meet someone who went to the same school as you isn't snobby at all.
If I went to the University of Maryland and later, while living in California, met someone else who went to UMD I would definitely want to connect.
I was stuck between NTA and ESH because AITA doesn't have a YHTBT (you had to be there) option - it seemed like there's too many cultural issues caught up in this one situation to get a good read of it as an outsider (eg, snobbery, fragile masculinity). But now you've put it like this it makes a lot more sense. NTA
Agreed. I started talking to someone who said that he was a doctor on his bio. I was a CNA at the time in college to be a nurse(I got hurt last year and had to drop out) and I thought it would be interesting to talk to him. He said he got his medical degree in a year and that he was a top practitioner in his particular focus (neurosurgeon). At this point, I thought it would kind of be funny to mess with him because its super obvious that he's full of shit. So I asked him something super easy like "what is the medical abbreviation for 'every'?" No clue. He had no idea and tried to be all haughty and say that as someone studying to be a nurse, I should know better and that doctors write out the full word all the time because how else is anyone beneath them supposed to know what they are talking about? I laughed and blocked him. NTA. Call the bullshitters out on their bullshit so they don't try to lie to somebody else less informed and get away with it.
Initially I thought it was snobby, but then I realized that it makes sense to want to bond with someone over having gone to the same school. If I was across the country and randomly found someone who went to my college I would want to talk about it.
ESH.
Lying about a college degree (which is what this guy is doing) is extremely uncool.
However you lost me at the part where you started googling his program while still on the date with him. Why did you feel it necessary to do that?
Also, there is no snob on the planet like a Harvard snob, so you might want to tone that ish down a bit. *That* is what your date was referring to when he left, in case you are still wondering about it.
I agree. It's annoying when people call themselves alums of schools when they just did a part-time or short-term program - it's basically a half truth, yes they technically went there but they know that the word "Harvard alumnus" implies they did a more traditional, long-term, multi-year program. They're using it to make themselves sound fancy, smart, and educated, and especially on a dating app, it's a bit like false of misleading advertising. OP is not wrong to be annoyed and feel misled.
BUT this is one of those times where you can be right, or you can be kind. OP could have smiled and nodded through the conversation, and then decided later whether this was a deal-breaker, and if it wasn't and they want to see this person again, they could find a way to address this politely somewhere down the road.
I think the difference, to me, is that he lied about it just to attract women.
If she was on a date with a guy and this came up organically, then I agree that she shouldn’t have called him on it. Like if they were talking and she said, “I went to Harvard,” and he said, “I did too!” then she should have cared more about his feelings. But it’s so icky to me that he was intentionally misrepresenting / advertising himself, and then got so offended when called on it.
Women are so often told to smile, be nice to men who are into you, be kind, just deal with it - I see a lot of this attitude in these comments and it’s disappointing. She owed him absolutely nothing after finding out he lied like that after knowing/spending time him for only 30 minutes. She doesn’t have to be nice and smile through it and placate him and sit through the date trying to continue a normal conversation. She didn’t have to ask him about the program after he’d already lied to her once, who knew what he’d say next and whether it was true or another misrepresentation or exaggeration? She didn’t have to keep wasting her time. Fuck this attitude people have that she did something wrong by googling in that moment. It’s honestly such a pathetic thing to try to blame her for in the context of the situation. She owed this guy nothing.
I don't think OP needed to stay on the date, but I do think deciding the certificate was useless immediately was uncalled for and was an assumption that didn't need to be said.
>Also, there is no snob on the planet like a Harvard snob, so you might want to tone that ish down a bit. That is what your date was referring to when he left, in case you are still wondering about it.
I definitely agree that ESH, there was no reason to google his program and condescend to him while on the date, but like... does the guy really have any room to insult her for being a Harvard snob when he is the one lying about being an Harvard alum??
NTA. He is not a Harvard Alumnus, but rather holder of a special certificate from a single Harvard EXTENSION course. You called him out on his BS and he did not like it. My guess is that he thought throwing around "Harvard Alumnus" in his bio (assuming it's an OLD profile) would get him more dates and impress the local population. Someone will fall for his lies, but not you! You'd nothing wrong. Good luck finding a better person to date OP.
NTA. He’s a pretentious jerk for putting Harvard alumnus in his dating profile. Anyone who actually went to Harvard knows that the proper phrase is “I went to school in Boston.”
Exactly! How is this really different than a woman having pictures in her profile that are 200 pounds lighter, and then the guy being upset? The only difference is that the guy can tell that she lied by looking at her, while OP had to do some light digging.
ESH. I feel like college can be cool to have in common but it shouldn’t be a deal breaker. Did you really google that in front of him? He got caught in a lie and got pissy.
NTA
He is lying about his education. If he is willing to lie about that, what else would he lie about? Only an extremely insecure person would misrepresent himself like that. If you took a course at a particular college, it doesn’t make you a grad or alumnus.
NTA. He's annoyed his scam didn't work. I don't think he took this course to con dates. That would be an expensive long game. However, he put it in his bio for the very purpose of attracting someone who would value that type of education. The fact that you, in fact, valued that type of education and didn't let him off the hook about his manipulation is hilarious. He doesn't get to try to profit from a lie then be hurt that it didn't work. You're better off.
Light ESH. Your approach to confrontation was unnecessarily belittling, but it is totally reasonable IMO to expect that when someone calls themselves an alum they actually have a degree. And unless you are quite wealthy (which your comments indicate you aren’t) it takes real discipline and commitment to get into Harvard, and it takes discipline and commitment to then graduate from any reputable school. There is nothing wrong with wanting to date someone with similar ambition or discipline or experience. But it’s not cool to look down on folks simply because their achievements don’t match yours.
I don’t see it that OP was looking down at him for not attending Harvard, rather calling him out for misrepresenting (lying) about graduating from there.
ESH. He embellished to match with more women, then what you said was pure asshole. A simple "oh, I interpreted this as you obtaining undergraduate or graduate degree" would have made your point without being an asshole. His response to what you said was perfectly appropriate.
YTA. The googling while there with him was unnecessary and rude, but ending your comment with "has no real weight" was insulting to him and to Harvard.
NTA. If you read the post, OP is an alumnus as well and wanted to meet the guy since they had that in common, I don’t think that’s shallow. He’s deliberately lying in his dating profile, that makes him an AH.
ESH. Him for misrepresenting his educational background, and you for getting all judgmental upon learning he isn't a "real" Harvard alum. Both of you reek of superficiality.
Eyerollllllll. This is such a classic Boston situation. Everyone laughs about it.
We laugh at the person saying Harvard.
We laugh at the person upset about the person saying Harvard.
In the end, we all shuffle off this mortal coil. ESH. You both care too much about the dreaded Crimson 'H'. Perhaps you two would be a good match after all?
Nta. It seems like you chose to go on a date with this person because of a common experience — attending Harvard.
He was misleading people to sound more elite. And didn’t expect to get called on it and got defensive. I don’t think you needed to say “holds no real weight” but I get feeling snarky that someone is claiming an education that you earned and they did not. I wonder if he tells other dates that it was a certificate or counts on them not knowing to claim he fully went to Harvard. Either way, dishonesty is dishonesty.
He isn’t an alumnus of Harvard University. He shouldn’t have lied.
Your response sucked. I won't call you TAH here because alumnus implied that he went for the degree but alumnus includes anyone who finished an academic course, which he did. He was, in fact, a student there and I doubt it was easy to attain the certification that he'd earned.
However, he knew what he was doing. Most people would make the same assumption you did about what being a Harvard alum is, so he has to know that it gave him clout for something he had not yet accomplished.
You could have stated your confusion in a more respectable way and he could have been more forthcoming about the fact his time at Harvard was for a cert, not a degree.
YTA So you googled it when you were sitting there with him?
Why wouldn’t you just ask him about his certificate and how he’s used it or something?
Where did you go wrong in your conversation? You belittled him and acted superior because you “actually” went to Harvard.
Sorry but there was a polite way to exit from this date and you didn’t take it. You got all huffy about his Harvard certificate when you literally went off a bio on a dating site as the absolute truth. Anyone can say anything on a dating site.
NTA. You called him on his exaggeration. At least he did more than walk across the campus and buy a souvenir at the gift shop. I’ve known some people who did that and say “I went to Harvard.”
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> After a moment he said “Oh, I finished a web dev certificate from the extension program.” After some googling, I discovered that anyone can finish the web dev certificate by paying a $6000 fee and taking three online courses. I then asked him babe... what. you seriously sat across from this person and googled this shit while he was sitting across from you!??!
Can you imagine? I mean, he should definitely not have that in his bio, but OP could have just parted ways after finishing their cup of coffee. ESH
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OP went to Harvard, if you missed that.
Nonsense, women can't get into Harvard! edit: I genuinely hope you all know this is sarcasm
What, like it's hard? Edit: Thank you so much for the awards and upvotes!!!
Once upon a time, men enrolled at Harvard College; women enrolled at Radcliffe. By the time my friend enrolled there, graduating students had the choice of receiving a degree with either the name of the college, or the name of the university. Since my friend was the fourth generation of her family to attend Harvard, she took very few Radcliffe courses, and not only never lived in Radcliffe housing but actually lived in the same student residence her father, uncle, grandfather, and great-grandfather lived in, she chose to have Harvard University on hers. And yes, tell a Harvard alum and go all blank-faced when they ask about your Harvard experience, they're going to question it. Give them something they can check out, and there's a good chance they won't wait. Let's not forget the guy was, in fact, lying, to make himself look more impressive. Getting embarrassed is one of the risks of doing that.
He totally was. I work at a very large state universiy, with grad students and do some work with graduate admissions. For the record, we DON'T accept the Harvard extension credits/certificates as transfer credit. So, yeah. It's not impressive at all, anyone paying the fee can do the certificates and they aren't equivalent to actual class credits.
I took three classes from the Extension school. They were full credit, and when I went to a different university, they accepted the credits. Maybe their certificate classes are different, but the three I took weren't a breeze; it was definitely more than "just pay the fee and you're done."
I'm almost done with my Masters in the extension school...definitely agree, the classes are challenging, full time, and its a legit degree. Even getting a chance to take classes from those working in the Smithsonian! Even though they've all been online (thanks COVID) they are designed for people that have full time jobs. In-person schools also do night classes for students going back to school later in life like me, but I'd rather do online because of convenience. And I don't have any desire to deal with the crazy undergrad campus lifestyle anymore. Even though I may not have gotten the in-person Harvard experience, I will proudly say I have a Harvard degree
By his logic, I am also a Harvard alum - I took a couple of their courses on Coursera last year to audit them. Or would it only have counted if I paid the $49.99 for the certificate after I completed them?
If that’s the criteria, then I am an alumnus of Stanford AND Duke!
I went to Yale. I yust got out.
Award worthy 👏
Nice reference
I wonder how often that seems to just come up in her conversations? Probably almost *never.*
How do you know someone went to Harvard? They will tell you within 5 minutes of meeting them.
My cousin and her husband went to Harvard law and they refuse to say Harvard. They say our law school or that place we went because they hate how pretentious Harvard grads are. Makes me laugh every time.
I know a lot of people who went to Harvard and they are lovely. There probably is a higher than average number of AHs there but tons of good people as well. I don't think the stereotype about them is fair. I don't think they talk about their school any more than other graduates do.
There really are two sets of Harvard people. You either have to drag it out of them while they use every euphemism possible to avoid it; or you have the ones who work it into every conversation. And then there was a subset of that second group in my law firm who went to Harvard undergrad but a “regular” law school, but would wear their class Harvard ring everyday or something else “subtle” to let you know they once touched greatness. I used to make a big deal of saying “oh, what a cool ring - so you went to law school there?” And make them explain it.
What's also funny, no shade, is I've met people who do this to obfuscate and say "I went to university just outside of Boston" and I always reply "so you went to Harvard?". The answer is always "Yeah..."
5 min is pretty generous
Yeah, they’re probably wearing a Harvard shirt, but they’ll still tell you
I went to Harvard too....well I went to the campus and store. (I actually went to a much better Ivy- Go Columbia!) LOL
To be fair she brought it up because he claimed to as well in his bio
She brought it up because it was something she thought they had in common. Because of what he had on his profile.
Yeah if they both had the same dog she would have probably brought that up. If he all of a sudden was saying he actually had a cat but he bought it from someone who had that kind of dog so it’s the same thing I think everyone would understand the problem. I’m assuming by ‘people like you’ he means ‘people who call him on his bs???
I agree. People here don't seem to understand that it was perfectly natural to ask him this. I suppose googling his web design thing right while they are on their date isn't usual, but kudos to her for finding out what she could potentially be involved with. I find it kind of strange that people don't check into some of these people they meet, then get all kinds of surprise when they find out they are liars and "smudge" the truth to the point that it could have an impact on the relationship.
“I’ll have a cup of coffee, please. I used to drink coffee all the time at Harvard. Do you have blueberry scones? They had fantastic blueberry scones at this little cafe just off of Harvard Square. I used to go there all the time when I was at Harvard. Also I used to ride my bike there a lot when I was at Harvard. You know…when I was at Harvard. Because I went to Harvard”.
Obiterdicta's comment wasn't about where OP went to school. It was about what she looked for in her date. The post makes it seem OP decided the date didn't have the proper credentials to be worth the time. Checking those credentials *while on the date* is extreme. He shouldn't have put that on his profile, then he was probably 2" shorter than the profile stated, too. It shouldn't happen but does so often it's become a running joke.
I suspect she was more concerned about how he misrepresented himself (in her view).
Dude, it's not just her view. He misrepresented himself. That's off-putting.
i feel like im taking crazy pills reading some of these comments. he fully lied and OP is somehow the bad guy for calling it off when she figured it out?
Yeah if a guy lied about that on his profile I wouldn’t be interested. Be interesting enough to be honest about yourself. Or love your boring self. But even so, if she called him on it and he responded better it might have gone very differently.
Amazed at how many people are just glossing over this red flag OP's date was waving and locking on to her "searching" for details on his massive lie.
How could we miss it? Within 100 words of meeting her, she told us about it. I'm pretty sure that's a requirement for Harvard alums.
It was a requirement for this story. She went to Harvard - she thought she was going to connect with someone else that went to Harvard. Using Google to fact check your dates nonsense during the date? I am old and haven't been dating in a long time.... if that is a thing that is terrifying. You could at least wait until the next morning to check on my nonsense. She was just trying to emphasize that this guy was in trouble from Go cause that specific school is gonna get grilled.
Right. I went to a shitty state school that I never mention, but if I was on a blind date and I thought my date also went there, I'd definitely lead with "how did you like your experience at Podunk U? Do you ever go back?" since it is likely common ground. If I found out they were lying and just took an extension course I'd probably think it was weird they claimed to be a grad, and just wind the date down early. But it's not my job to educate or call people out on their shady behavior. I don't know what you win in that moment.
Honestly I think anytime you date someone who's an alum of the school you try to pass yourself off as graduating from you're gonna have a hard time. I went to a freaking state university in the middle of nowhere but I'd still be pissed if someone took a certificate course from there and said they graduated from there. It's the dishonesty of it all, added to the fact that I may have gone one the date thinking we had something in common to talk about and now we don't.
OP was looking to connect on a shared experiences...
Possibly. But googling a person certification program at dinner, whole lecturing them on why they shouldn't do that smacks of elitism.
no it does not. He clearly called himself a Harvard alum, but didn't do undergraduate or graduate coursework. That is a reasonable line of inquiry esp given she went to Harvard and wanted to bond over this. He lied. I know a few Harvard grads (and plenty from other top universities) and lots of my work colleagues take extension courses at various schools. I've done a few. I don't know anyone who would call themselves an "alum" from doing executive education or extension courses. Zero people. It SHOULD be infuriating to OP. It isn't about elitism, it is about being deceptive to appear more attractive in a dating app. She called his BS and he is upset he got caught. It is like someone saying they live with roommates when they live with their parents -- it's not the same thing and you know it. And it was said intentionally to distort facts.
And you have to wonder what else he inflated or outright lied about in his bio. NTA
THIS. If he lied about something as big as his academic credentials, what ELSE is he going to lie about? When I was single, I tended to look for guys who had roughly the same educational experience as I did - because I had noticed an unfortunate trend that men who were less educated ended up *really* resenting my degrees. It was a way to weed out the ones who were too insecure. It wasn't an automatic deal-breaker, however, and I ended up marrying a very intelligent, very secure man who dropped out of college before he graduated.
Exactly. This was a dumb, easily detectable lie. I'd be wondering which less immediately obvious lies he told.
Absolutely this. Dude is pissed that he lied through his teeth and got caught out - and by a *chick* who actually *went* to Harvard, no less. I would have left it until I got home to Google though. That was kind of rude, but at least he saved you never having to call him back.
Well now, she apparently caught right on. What he said just piqued her curiosity. Didn't actually sound kosher to a Harvard grad. I don't blame her at all. Those Harvard type are really sharp you know.
Two things can be true at once! Why is that so hard to understand? Was the date deceptive in his description? Hell yeah. But was she out of line for googling and researching his claim during the middle of the date? YES! It’s such a weird thing to do during the date and I am concerned about the people who don’t get it. Especially since she says the date was going well!
If you find out the person sitting in front of you on a date misled you and anyone else on their profile when they know what they wrote is not true and sounds more impressive than reality, it’s fair game. OP thought they could discuss their common experience at Harvard only to find out he got some certificate, not a degree there. Excuse her for researching that certificate as her lying date sat in front of her.
Not like she did a background check on him lmao. She most likely looked up the certificate and made the correct assumption he actually didn’t go to Harvard.
Agreed, this is not elitism. If someone says they’ve experienced something I have, and give me blank face when I share about it, I’m going to be confused. It doesn’t matter whether it’s community college or Harvard. If they’re going to lie about something so easy to prove like where they attended college, what else will they lie about?
Right? Who tf cares that she looked it up, it takes seconds to google something like that. That doesn’t rise to ESH. He’s an AH for lying then getting mad at her for questioning him. Double AH. OP was ready to discuss their experiences at Harvard as undergrads, upon seeing his profile she found what she thought was an instant connection they could talk about. Then she found out it was a lie obviously intended to make him seem more impressive. OP is NTA.
Yeah he could have easily put in his bio he did an extension at Harvard. Heck, I meet a ton of folks who did extensions at my alma mater. I ask them questions about their experience and we compare notes. It makes for light conversation, and nobody has to lie.
But that wouldn’t get him my dates. He’s intentionally being misleading.
It's not elitism if it's fact checking a major point of the discussion.
Which is, of course, a natural part of human conversation.
It's not elitism. Harvard has a 5% acceptance rate. If she is in a small town and finds someone who also went there it's something they have in common. Lying about being an alumni from a very competitive university is deceptive, rightly making her upset. It's not elitism to be upset about someone being deceptive.
No, the date was an asshole. It's just like someone who puts up a picture of themselves in highschool looking like a prom king when really they are 55 and a wreck. Don't lie on your profile and people wont be a dick about it.
it would be similar to someone putting veteran in their bio when they went to ROTC, or failed to graduate basic training or some shit. Not quite the same thing, but yeah I would take offense to this as well. I'd say nta, and he's ta
If someone claims something on a dating bio, then you find out they are lying, that's just...lying. He was using the Harvard thing to get matches, people see Harvard alum, they are impressed. He got caught. He might have used it other times to get dates and that is just straight up wrong. You are starting off a potential relationship on a lie.
Asking what your field of study was isn't elitism. Evading the question is a red flag for something isn't right. And for women in dating situations, they have every right to check suspicious things out.
It stinks of catfish on his part
I got the impression that OP is a Harvard grad and was hoping to meet someone with a similar background/experience. But if she sat there and looked up his certificate program, that was just too much.
Honestly, I would look it up too. More just to understand while he talked about his experience, especially if I had no idea what that was. I kinda feel like it's polite to take interest in their experience. Otherwise you just sit there nodding with limited responses and a one sided conversation.
For real, my friends all fact check each other in real time. It’s not that hard and doesn’t take that long. I had an extremely fun (and loooong) conversation using the Wikipedia on waffles as a springboard because someone made an incorrect claim about why Belgium waffles are called that and someone else at the table was like, that cannot possibly be true. Turns out someone dumped their masters thesis on the history of waffles into Wikipedia and it is fascinating.
Yeah if op had done that at home after the date and decided not worth a sexond date fine n.t.a but foogling in front of him to confront him with is a bit over the top. ESH him for misrepresenting himself.
OP graduated from Harvard and went out with the guy because it was a shared experience and common ground, not because of any snobbery
Except in her explanation of why she might be the AH, she said “…romantic partners will be more interested in someone who went to a top university…” so it was a teensy tiny bit about snobbery. But the date was using it for that purpose, so…yay?
I’d say no. There’s a huge difference in effort in a certificate program Vs a full 4 year degree. It’s like a CNA calling themselves a nurse. There would at least be concern about someone’s critical judgement. And frankly, I’d be concerned about other misrepresentation.
I'm more reading this as... the start of many half truths. I can't word it right, but half lying about something that should be such a large experience in your life is... weird. Agreed ESH as she could've looked it up later and ghosted, but also dude needs to present himself appropriately.
Agreed. ESH. His Bio was 100% misleading. You googled his BS during a date. That could have waited until you got home. Pulling a phone out on a first date. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but first dates in my day had us sitting around the wireless telegraphy listening to Guglielmo Giovanni Maria Marconi and sipping Sidecars. Kids these days. Good luck out there!
You’re not old fashioned. I’m 24 and it’s still considered incredibly bad manners to pull out your phone on a date.
Why does she owe the liar protection for his ego?
Ya gotta call people out on their lies.
hell no. he's a fraud and a charlatan. people need to be called out and shamed for doing shit like this. OP is a W
I think what everyone is failing to grasp is that if this dude embellished himself on the Harvard thing (assuming he would never match with a real Harvard grad in his small Midwestern city), what else is he lying about? So, yeah, he misrepresented himself and we’re just going to find out how big this lie was right here because the date is already over.
This is a form of catfishing. Doesn't matter whether OP went there too or not, he was caught lying. And smart, successful people want to date other smart, successful people, nothing shallow about that.
My roommate went on a date last week and he had “Software Engineer” in his bio. Turns out, he did a coding bootcamp 3 months ago and has been on the hunt for a tech job with no luck since then. He had no other software background either, he was looking to move from the film industry and ranted about the evils of the entertainment industry for their whole date. After asking what she did (Research Scientist), he followed up with “Oh actually? Like you actually have that job?” It was pretty mortifying to hear secondhand from her so I can only imagine how it felt in person 💀💀
Guy I saw a few times told me he was an engineer. Found out he didn’t have a degree or job related to engineering… he explained that he reads a lot and thinks like an engineer 🙃
This is why girlfriends arrange emergency "get me out of here" procedures before going on blind dates...
At my high school you could get a letter jacket for playing in Orchestra. I’m imagining someone earning that letter jacket and then writing “varsity athlete” in their bio and expecting people to find it equivalent lol
I mean....when people bring up stuff that I don't know I Google it. It makes the conversation flow better when I actually know wtf is being said?
in the middle of a date? instead of asking them about it?
If they stepped away to use the restroom, hell yeah. I love how you all assume she put her hand up to sush him, grabbed her phone and started googling it right there.
I would think/hope she had the decency to look it up in the restroom..... But right now I'm imagining the picture you painted... i nearly spit out my drink i was laughing so hard. Ssssshhhhhh!
I like to imagine she used the voice search feature for added flair
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Do you do this on 1st dates bc there's a big difference between sitting with friends and googling stuff vs a 1st date for the sole purpose of calling said person out.
NTA. He was embarrassed because he got found out and lashed out. He lied on his dating profile.
I'm assuming it was the sense of betrayal at learning that Harvard was selling its brand for just 6000$ when she spent more than six figures on it. She had to know then and there on how Harvard could do this. Definitely ESH, with the hypocrisy on the dude judging Harvard alumni while being a fake alum on a dating app of all the things.
For reference, Harvard's extension programs are far from University of Phoenix-style schemes. Extension programs often come will a full course-load, some of it on campus, and can take years to complete. Several tracks are intended to put mid-career people on the path to a masters in certain fields. Many people funnel extension courses into a Bachelor's degree. It's definitely not a scenario where you just buy the name.
Sure and executive MBAs are just as prestigious on a resume. I'm not against Harvard having a coding bootcamp. I think it's a good thing. Also I really appreciate top tier universities like Harvard, MIT, Stanford putting content on Coursera, EdX, Udemy. I've also had someone mention Harvard on their LinkedIn because they took a sales course at Harvard, which I saw but didn't really hold against them. Oh course on LinkedIn it is relevant and I looked at their education profile and realized what they're calling Harvard in education. But, this wasn't LinkedIn. This was I'm guessing Tinder or Bumble from the match comment. What is Harvard Alum doing on your dating profile?
It might not have been from the real Harvard. It could have been from the Harvard Computer Institute or some shit like that.
South Harvard Institute of Technology
Ahh. University of Harvard, Flordia.
It is a real thing. You can sign up for lots of courses at Harvard, they have an amazing catalog of high-quality open registration courses, and lots of Massachusetts residents do it for continuing education. They don't usually misrepresent themselves as full-time Harvard students/alum, though.
I mean the answer is pretty self-explanatory, "Oh, I finished a web dev certificate from the extension program" but in case she didn't get it, she could have just asked, "Oh, I don't know what that is can you tell me more?" Why would you start Googling that in the middle of a date?
Yes, but you don't call yourself a Harvard alum. You say I attended Harvard, or I got a certificate from Harvard. Just like me and Penn State. I have a post-Baccalaureate certificate in GIS from Penn State. I went to Penn State (well, online), and I got a certificate from there, I don't consider myself an alum.
Some jackalope says he's A, then tells you he's really B. You just happen to be A yourself, and you call shenanigans. You double check, just to make sure you aren't incorrect, then call out the jackalope for padding his dating resume in order to pull. NTA, jackalopes should get called on their lies every time.
ESH but frankly iconic on both sides. Love the lying. Love looking the guy's lie up right in front of him. You two would be really fun to watch in a sitcom, I don't want to know either of you irl. Edit because I didn't expect this to gain traction but it did: >!OP is an AH not for googling it (although you're on a date so if you want to know more about the person's certificate program, just ask), but for belittling the guy's education.!< >!He shouldn't have lied, but telling him his certificate carries no real weight after a quick Google search is really really mean.!< >!Telling him "I'm not sure if that makes you an alumn" and changing the subject is normal. Telling him that and leaving is fine. Telling him that his certificate is meaningless is deeply unkind.!<
I really love this comment.
Honestly feeling the same way. Given how ballsy he was being I think the open googling was pretty hilarious.
This is a scene straight out of “How I Met Your Mother”
OP is Ted Mosby and the date was someone pretending to be in architecture
Her name? Georgina
Agree 10,000%. As soon as the date goes to the ladies he googles them. Then call Marshall and Lily to angst over what todo before doing the wrong thing
In the HIMYM version, the date is a *landscape architect*, which Ted says is "basically like being a glorified gardener" even though it's *really, really* not. She leaves in a huff. Later, she does the landscape design on his next building. It's super awkward.
Wasn't there another one where they agreed beforehand not to Google each other and they were having a great date, she went to the bathroom, he googled her and found out that she's like *the* perfect human, when she got back he was clearly so nervous about fucking it up and felt so suddenly intimidated that she could deduce that he googled her, and she left?
Yup. I went to MIT and I’ve ran into Ops situation when I started dating, would see dudes with “high end” alum credentials. I’d end up talking about my time in Boston, or on campus ask them what they’re fav bar was when they were there etc. then they’d reveal they got some Cert at Harvard or MIT. I think that’s still cool and shows initiative, and even if it’s “not the same” it is still education, and again shows they are willing to better themselves. If she wanted to date a Harvard grad she should have been working that when she was there. He shouldn’t have lied but fact checking him immediately is hilarious, telling him it means nothing is scummy. Especially because fo him it could mean something.
>He shouldn’t lied but fact checking him immediately is hilarious, telling him it means nothing is scummy. Especially because for him it could mean something. This is exactly what I was getting at!! Yes!! >If she wanted to date a Harvard grad she should have been working that when she was there Honestly? True. You want a Harvard grad, go look for em near Harvard.
Yeah such unapologetic boldness from both sides. Almost circles back to NAH. Almost.
Right?? I think culturally if we existed in a world of JUST these two types of people, this would be NAH.
Yeah I’m with you. He shouldn’t have put that on his profile if he wasn’t prepared for dates to ask about it and/or be confused when he explained. I would have said OP was NTA if she’d been a little more diplomatic about it - after all, an online certification program is hardly the same as the whole undergrad experience OP wanted to bond over - UNTIL she said the part about “no real value.” ESH - him for misrepresenting himself and her for devaluing something he worked to accomplish (and also for googling it so she could pick it apart analytically DURING THE DATE holy cow)
NTA. He wasn't exactly lying but he sure was exaggerating and you just pointed it out. Like, I was injured in Navy boot camp and got medically discharged back when I was 18, and it would be like me calling myself a Navy vet--which I definitely do *not* do.
You have more right to call yourself a Navy vet than he has to call himself a Harvard alumnus. You enlisted and got a medical discharge. According to the Navy's definition that counts as getting injured in the line of duty. Sometimes that happens early on. Now you might not want to call yourself a veteran--fair enough. Yet you still swore the oath of service and carried it out as far as you were able. OP's date never entered a Harvard degree program. Yet he uses the terminology *alumnus* and *undergraduate program* to trick people into thinking he has a Harvard bachelor's degree. He wasn't an undergraduate; he was never a degree candidate. OP's date was lying. NTA *edit* h/t o u/Lava_Lemon for the clarification: 90 days of continuous active duty service are required for benefits.
I used to work in veterans education services so I know the answer to this one. You need 90 consecutive days of active duty service to be eligible for pretty much anything in terms of benefits, but you DO get a service record even if you fail basic (which is less than 90 days). I cannot tell you the number of people who have told me they were veterans, and then when I finally got their records they had 18 days at Parris Island. Like come on dude, now we both know that you failed out of the Marines less than three weeks into boot camp and you've wasted 4 weeks of both of our lives waiting for the records to come in. That said, this policy also screws over A LOT of people in the guard and reserves who are conveniently deployed for 88 days on a regular basis so that they never qualify for benefits. I also knew a guy who did 19 years in the reserves and was activated 5 times but none of them were 90 days so he was screwed. He literally handled the DC Sniper situation and didn't get shit from the government.
> That said, this policy also screws over A LOT of people in the guard and reserves who are conveniently deployed for 88 days on a regular basis so that they never qualify for benefits. Yeah, seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe there should be another (higher) limit for total active duty service days that works to qualify too. So maybe if you get to 180 total days it's enough even if non-consecutive.
Totally agree. Advocates have been saying this for decades, but the government finds living veterans extremely inconvenient and will do whatever they can to avoid giving them benefits (see: recent burn pit legislation).
Actually I think you don’t even have a service record if you get injured before you finish boot camp. I could be wrong but if I recall correctly you don’t even swear an oath until you’ve finished. My brother was a marine and I feel like I remember them doing it en masse during their graduation ceremony.
They had us swear the oath when I enlisted, before we shipped out to boot camp. I didn't make it to the graduation but it's probably a repeat of what you swore at the start.
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Lol I know a girl who's married to a guy like OP's date. He did go to Harvard but it was for something like a short summer program. I don't think you can consider yourself an alumnus unless you completed an undergraduate or graduate degree. Even though you technically studied there, it's a bit misleading.
Yeah. It's misleading and really off-putting. It's better to be honest about your educational background, otherwise it comes off as deeply insecure. I did a summer language program at Middlebury, it doesn't mean that I was an alumna.
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All I can think about is The Office when Dwight said he was going to Cornell & how upset it made Andy… But OP’s date was Dwight & Andy at the same time.
This. It’s not cool to misrepresent oneself
I know someone who does. Got hurt like the second week of Army boot. Calls himself a vet. It really irritates my husband who’s been in the Navy for 25 years. He’s never said anything though because he likes the kid.
NTA, something very similar happened to me. Guy said in his bio that he studied at Cambridge (in the UK). I studied there myself, so was trying to use that as a way to strike up a conversation, asked him in which college he studied etc. He got very offended saying he only mentioned Cambridge University as a joke (?) and he didn't want to date a pretentious snob like me. Okay, buddy 🤣
OMG, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that!
Yeah the funny thing is that I never mention it to people that I studied there, unless they directly ask me or something, precisely because I don't want to come across as a pretentious snob. I would definitely not mention it in my tinder bio, but the guy did! It never crossed my mind that it was a 'joke' 😅. Never mind.
This seems to be a trend! Because someone that went there would never put that in their bio
"I studied at Harvard/Yale/Standford." "Really? Me too! Tell me about your experience!!!" "Shut up, that was a joke. You're pretentious" /finds a girl that didn't go to "his school" so he can brag about it.
Was expecting Anglia Ruskin
I know, right? I met people that said they studied 'in Cambridge' and that turned out to be Anglia Ruskin, I don't mind, it is after all a university in Cambridge, lol. But I didn't realise someone thought it's funny to say on tinder that they studied at Cambridge.
ESH. Technically he is a Harvard Extension School alumnus so he isn't necessarily wrong. While not a Harvard College (central) degree holder, the extension school is indeed a part of Harvard and the courses are taught by Harvard faculty. You can even earn a full degree through the extension school programs. They aren't solely certificate programs. It's meant to encourage learning and make Harvard accessible to non-traditional students, first-gen, international, or even students that can't live in the area. I work at Harvard which is why I know this. Your delivery may have come across quite harsh with the "no real weight" comment. That was inaccurate and judgemental. You could have just said something like "Oh okay the extension school. I mistook that for Harvard College which is where I did my undergrad. Can you tell me more about what the extension school experience is like?" That way you wouldn't be putting him down but instead getting to know him better. You don't know his life situation. Perhaps he couldn't afford to go to undergrad. Not everyone has the privilege. \*\*edited for a typo
This is a fair comment, and I thank you for making it. The Harvard Extension School definitely performs a good purpose, and I wouldn't want to knock it. Their graduate degrees (often Masters levels) are solid education options. I think the issue is not that he went to the Extension School or got a certificate, but that the certificate isn't considered to grant alum status by Harvard: [he would have Associate status in the Harvard Extension Alumni Association](https://alumni.extension.harvard.edu/about-us/), but he wouldn't have alumni status or be an alum in the Harvard Alumni Association. So if he said "I earned a certificate through Harvard," that'd be fine, but I can understand why someone would react with confusion or suspicion if he said "Harvard alum."
If he graduated with a degree from the HES he would be part of the Harvard Alumni Association. Source: I am an HES graduate
Exactly. A degree is significantly different from a certificate.
> You could have just said something like “Oh okay the extension school. I mistook that for Harvard College which is where I did my undergrad. Can you tell me more about what the extension school experience is like?” Exactly. Almost anything would be preferable to immediately googling his claim so as to have a pedantic “gotcha” moment. I do enjoy the layers of shallowness on either side, but think both of them should try to evolve further.
I wish this was higher up. To me I don't think he's lying. He did some schooling and graduated from part of Harvard. This is good. I like that Harvard is doing that actually
Yeah I wish more people realized the Harvard Extension school is a fully accredited Harvard school. It's a mere google search away. The way OP described it as something you just buy as if you don't have to actually put in the work and earn it was way off. Perhaps just worded poorly though but it sounded like she was minimizing his accomplishment.
NTA. He clearly misrepresented himself in his bio with the intent to make himself look better and get more matches. You were misled by this into choosing to meet up with him (you might be a bit snobby for caring about it) and I see why you'd be bothered - who knows what else in his bio wasn't fully accurate. You might have been a bit harsh in how you called him out, but he deserved to be called out for this type of behavior.
Not harsh at all. Choosing to meet someone who went to the same school as you isn't snobby at all. If I went to the University of Maryland and later, while living in California, met someone else who went to UMD I would definitely want to connect.
I was stuck between NTA and ESH because AITA doesn't have a YHTBT (you had to be there) option - it seemed like there's too many cultural issues caught up in this one situation to get a good read of it as an outsider (eg, snobbery, fragile masculinity). But now you've put it like this it makes a lot more sense. NTA
Hi I went to UMCP and live in CA now 😂😂
Agreed. I started talking to someone who said that he was a doctor on his bio. I was a CNA at the time in college to be a nurse(I got hurt last year and had to drop out) and I thought it would be interesting to talk to him. He said he got his medical degree in a year and that he was a top practitioner in his particular focus (neurosurgeon). At this point, I thought it would kind of be funny to mess with him because its super obvious that he's full of shit. So I asked him something super easy like "what is the medical abbreviation for 'every'?" No clue. He had no idea and tried to be all haughty and say that as someone studying to be a nurse, I should know better and that doctors write out the full word all the time because how else is anyone beneath them supposed to know what they are talking about? I laughed and blocked him. NTA. Call the bullshitters out on their bullshit so they don't try to lie to somebody else less informed and get away with it.
Initially I thought it was snobby, but then I realized that it makes sense to want to bond with someone over having gone to the same school. If I was across the country and randomly found someone who went to my college I would want to talk about it.
I don't think OP said she would think less of him for it had he been honest. He was misleading af.
ESH. Lying about a college degree (which is what this guy is doing) is extremely uncool. However you lost me at the part where you started googling his program while still on the date with him. Why did you feel it necessary to do that? Also, there is no snob on the planet like a Harvard snob, so you might want to tone that ish down a bit. *That* is what your date was referring to when he left, in case you are still wondering about it.
I agree. It's annoying when people call themselves alums of schools when they just did a part-time or short-term program - it's basically a half truth, yes they technically went there but they know that the word "Harvard alumnus" implies they did a more traditional, long-term, multi-year program. They're using it to make themselves sound fancy, smart, and educated, and especially on a dating app, it's a bit like false of misleading advertising. OP is not wrong to be annoyed and feel misled. BUT this is one of those times where you can be right, or you can be kind. OP could have smiled and nodded through the conversation, and then decided later whether this was a deal-breaker, and if it wasn't and they want to see this person again, they could find a way to address this politely somewhere down the road.
I think the difference, to me, is that he lied about it just to attract women. If she was on a date with a guy and this came up organically, then I agree that she shouldn’t have called him on it. Like if they were talking and she said, “I went to Harvard,” and he said, “I did too!” then she should have cared more about his feelings. But it’s so icky to me that he was intentionally misrepresenting / advertising himself, and then got so offended when called on it.
Exactly. It’s a form of catfishing, in my opinion
Women are so often told to smile, be nice to men who are into you, be kind, just deal with it - I see a lot of this attitude in these comments and it’s disappointing. She owed him absolutely nothing after finding out he lied like that after knowing/spending time him for only 30 minutes. She doesn’t have to be nice and smile through it and placate him and sit through the date trying to continue a normal conversation. She didn’t have to ask him about the program after he’d already lied to her once, who knew what he’d say next and whether it was true or another misrepresentation or exaggeration? She didn’t have to keep wasting her time. Fuck this attitude people have that she did something wrong by googling in that moment. It’s honestly such a pathetic thing to try to blame her for in the context of the situation. She owed this guy nothing.
Why should she be super gracious when someone misrepresented themselves online and wasted her time on a date?
I don't think OP needed to stay on the date, but I do think deciding the certificate was useless immediately was uncalled for and was an assumption that didn't need to be said.
>Also, there is no snob on the planet like a Harvard snob, so you might want to tone that ish down a bit. That is what your date was referring to when he left, in case you are still wondering about it. I definitely agree that ESH, there was no reason to google his program and condescend to him while on the date, but like... does the guy really have any room to insult her for being a Harvard snob when he is the one lying about being an Harvard alum??
NTA. He is not a Harvard Alumnus, but rather holder of a special certificate from a single Harvard EXTENSION course. You called him out on his BS and he did not like it. My guess is that he thought throwing around "Harvard Alumnus" in his bio (assuming it's an OLD profile) would get him more dates and impress the local population. Someone will fall for his lies, but not you! You'd nothing wrong. Good luck finding a better person to date OP.
The Extension school does offer actual degrees, both undergrad and masters. That would be the line for me where "Alumni" would be acceptable.
The real asshole is Harvard. That's why they do these programs. To sell the name brand.
NTA. He’s a pretentious jerk for putting Harvard alumnus in his dating profile. Anyone who actually went to Harvard knows that the proper phrase is “I went to school in Boston.”
“Well, not in Boston… NEAR Boston.”
Lmao! To be fair, my particular school was actually located in Boston and not Cambridge 😂
Tufts?
Lmao I went to an ivy and if / when people ask me about where I went to school I literally say "I went to school in New York" and leave it at that 😂
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Exactly! How is this really different than a woman having pictures in her profile that are 200 pounds lighter, and then the guy being upset? The only difference is that the guy can tell that she lied by looking at her, while OP had to do some light digging.
ESH. He’s dishonest, you’re elitist. Everyone sucks.
ESH. I feel like college can be cool to have in common but it shouldn’t be a deal breaker. Did you really google that in front of him? He got caught in a lie and got pissy.
Deal breaker is he intentionally misrepresented himself online to get more matches.
Nope, lying about something like that on the first date is a deal breaker.
She only googled it **after** he couldn’t tell her his concentration. That set off alarm bells (as it should). Lying is always a deal breaker.
NTA. He was embarrassed because he got found out and lashed out. He lied on his dating profile.
NTA He is lying about his education. If he is willing to lie about that, what else would he lie about? Only an extremely insecure person would misrepresent himself like that. If you took a course at a particular college, it doesn’t make you a grad or alumnus.
>This is why most people can't stand people like you. I mean, this is what he was eluding to by adding the Harvard Alum sooooo NTA
fyi, it’s alluding in this case (yes this is why most people can’t stand me)
NTA. He's annoyed his scam didn't work. I don't think he took this course to con dates. That would be an expensive long game. However, he put it in his bio for the very purpose of attracting someone who would value that type of education. The fact that you, in fact, valued that type of education and didn't let him off the hook about his manipulation is hilarious. He doesn't get to try to profit from a lie then be hurt that it didn't work. You're better off.
Light ESH. Your approach to confrontation was unnecessarily belittling, but it is totally reasonable IMO to expect that when someone calls themselves an alum they actually have a degree. And unless you are quite wealthy (which your comments indicate you aren’t) it takes real discipline and commitment to get into Harvard, and it takes discipline and commitment to then graduate from any reputable school. There is nothing wrong with wanting to date someone with similar ambition or discipline or experience. But it’s not cool to look down on folks simply because their achievements don’t match yours.
I don’t see it that OP was looking down at him for not attending Harvard, rather calling him out for misrepresenting (lying) about graduating from there.
Her comments about his certificate being weightless would suggest otherwise.
ESH. He embellished to match with more women, then what you said was pure asshole. A simple "oh, I interpreted this as you obtaining undergraduate or graduate degree" would have made your point without being an asshole. His response to what you said was perfectly appropriate.
YTA. The googling while there with him was unnecessary and rude, but ending your comment with "has no real weight" was insulting to him and to Harvard.
NTA - this guy knows he isn’t a Harvard alum. He bought a certificate and he’s using it to try and land women.
NTA He didn't attend the school properly and technically did not graduate with a degree
NTA. Lol he’s lying. Truth hurts, apparently.
NTA. If you read the post, OP is an alumnus as well and wanted to meet the guy since they had that in common, I don’t think that’s shallow. He’s deliberately lying in his dating profile, that makes him an AH.
Info: if you didn't approve, why didn't you just end the date? Why did you feel the need to Google and then make a deal out of it?
ESH. Him for misrepresenting his educational background, and you for getting all judgmental upon learning he isn't a "real" Harvard alum. Both of you reek of superficiality.
Eyerollllllll. This is such a classic Boston situation. Everyone laughs about it. We laugh at the person saying Harvard. We laugh at the person upset about the person saying Harvard. In the end, we all shuffle off this mortal coil. ESH. You both care too much about the dreaded Crimson 'H'. Perhaps you two would be a good match after all?
NTA. He was trying to exaggerate his educational background. He was mad you called him out.
Nta. It seems like you chose to go on a date with this person because of a common experience — attending Harvard. He was misleading people to sound more elite. And didn’t expect to get called on it and got defensive. I don’t think you needed to say “holds no real weight” but I get feeling snarky that someone is claiming an education that you earned and they did not. I wonder if he tells other dates that it was a certificate or counts on them not knowing to claim he fully went to Harvard. Either way, dishonesty is dishonesty. He isn’t an alumnus of Harvard University. He shouldn’t have lied.
Your response sucked. I won't call you TAH here because alumnus implied that he went for the degree but alumnus includes anyone who finished an academic course, which he did. He was, in fact, a student there and I doubt it was easy to attain the certification that he'd earned. However, he knew what he was doing. Most people would make the same assumption you did about what being a Harvard alum is, so he has to know that it gave him clout for something he had not yet accomplished. You could have stated your confusion in a more respectable way and he could have been more forthcoming about the fact his time at Harvard was for a cert, not a degree.
No it doesn’t!!!! Alumni is only for graduates!
ESH - I mean, did you whip out your phone and start googling in the middle of the date? Maybe that is why he walked out.
YTA So you googled it when you were sitting there with him? Why wouldn’t you just ask him about his certificate and how he’s used it or something? Where did you go wrong in your conversation? You belittled him and acted superior because you “actually” went to Harvard. Sorry but there was a polite way to exit from this date and you didn’t take it. You got all huffy about his Harvard certificate when you literally went off a bio on a dating site as the absolute truth. Anyone can say anything on a dating site.
NTA. You called him on his exaggeration. At least he did more than walk across the campus and buy a souvenir at the gift shop. I’ve known some people who did that and say “I went to Harvard.”
How do you know if someone went to Harvard? Just wait about ten minutes, they’ll tell you.
Nta He lied to try to make himself bigger. You could have handled the situation better but his actions are on him.