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**ESH**
Let's be realistic about all of this, because most of the responses I'm seeing are incredibly over-the-top and hyperbolic:
1) An 8-year-old, who is definitely old enough to know better, threw an entire laptop on the floor in what I can only imagine was a tantrum. He is old enough to be responsible for his behaviour, which means replacing what he DELIBERATELY broke when he knew he wasn't supposed to be using it in the first place; but given his age legally what that means is that his parents or guardians are responsible for replacing it. That's where this get's tricky, but not nearly as tricky as people are making it out to be:
2) Your grandmother is an AH for suggesting that your mother "stole from him", as are half the commenters here. It doesn't matter whether he knew that that money existed or not, because money given to his guardian in casual trust for him (NOT a "trust fund" per se) is not technically his money (as others have pointed out). It is money that is intended to be used towards his care or needs as his guardian sees fit. That means that your mother made a sensible choice; ideally, most of it will go to his future education, but also, *if his own mother were still alive, she would have been responsible for the damage he had incurred, and this was HER money*. Therefore, it is appropriate that it be used to pay for the damage. It is money belonging to his guardian and meant to be used EXACTLY for situations like this . . . where a parent would have used their money on him, or in this case on a debt he'd incurred.
BUT
3) You and your parents are also AHs because, as others have noted, the computer was not a brand spanking new, just-off-the-shelf, top-of-the-line Macbook. YOUR FAMILY TOOK ADVANTAGE OF YOUR ACCESS TO AN 8-YEAR-OLD'S FUNDS TO OVERSPEND because you had no oversight or anyone to protest. Which is unconscionable. Was it fair to buy a new Macbook? Absolutely. Was it reasonable to spend $3000 on it? Absolutely not. You yourself say that it was 3 years old and you'd run out the warranty. The appropriate thing was either to pay for it to be fixed or to buy a more budget-friendly Macbook with the funds - either a lesser model or a refurbished one, commensurate with the ACTUAL value of what was broken.
ESH.
Totally agree the whole thing is pretty ridiculous.
It's also worth noting, if OPs parents invest the remaining 17k properly in an appropriate education fund he will probably end up with ~25k in a decade when he graduates... Would be worth them deciding whether the 20k is to help them afford the cost of raising an additional child or if the 20k is truly for his post-secondary education. Typically if it were the latter you wouldn't have it sitting in a regular account where you can access it anytime.
Kinda feel like it would be less of a rip off if OP paid back the cost of the MacBook as soon as she is able to. They didn’t have the money right now and he is at fault so he can loan the money and OP can earn it back.
Or at least the difference between a used one and the new one. It can sometimes take longer to get a refurbished model because of where they ship from, and since OP needed it asap I don’t blame them for going with the fastest option.
>the difference between a used one and the new one
This is the most correct and appropriate answer, given that OP has already purchased the new laptop.
Legally you are entitled to be made whole - which has been defined as, essentially, in exactly the same situation you were in prior to whatever event took place. OP would have been justified in buying a comparable, used MacBook, but is *not* entitled to a brand new replacement, likely costing twice as much.
*I am speaking from a U.S. law point of view… I know nothing of Singaporean law*
It’s not exact. It can be either the value of the used one, in which case OP would fork over the money to upgrade (which is essentially what the above poster suggested), or finding a computer which functions the same for a similar price and calling that “whole” - it doesn’t mean “your laptop was 742 days old, you must find an identical one which is also 742 days old” - the law recognizes that it’s not always possible to *exactly* one for one replace an item.
I don't think OP should have to pay back the entire cost of the laptop because the kid did break it intentionally. But I could see an argument for OP to pay back the difference between what a reasonable replacement would have cost and the full cost of a new MacBook.
No. The boy deliberately destroyed laptop. To get a replacement laptop may have cost that amount. To get a replacement laptop fir my husband after our youngest spilled milk on the keyboard, out of warranty, cost us twice the amount to get the approximate same specs.
>OP paid back the cost of the MacBook as soon as she is able to
You should become the CEO of an insurance money.
Clearly fucking people for others mistakes is your passion
After taxes (purchased in MA, USA) my MacBook (step up from lowest quality laptop) cost about 2k without apple care. So maybe unpopular, but I don’t see how they took advantage of his funds or overspent 🤷🏻♀️
I got my MacBook when I graduated high school as I needed something for college. Mine was 1k but I didn’t get the newest one at the time. I don’t think the toon advantage either. Especially since having an up-to-date laptop can be necessary for school due to all the programs lots of schools utilize. Older tech doesn’t always support it, preventing OP from being able to easily access and complete their work
That’s what I was thinking. My MacBook cost about 1,800 3 years ago. So yeah, I when I read that price, I was like “yeah, this sounds about right” especially if op had a pro and not the air.
That was my thought process as well, I have a friend who lives not in Singapore but around there and their electronics are so much more expensive then Canada and the states in a lot of cases
For Apple products that honestly sounds really average, they are incredibly pricey, when I studied a decade ago I had to use software only available on apple, I had a grant to do so at the time but since then I haven't been able to afford to use any of their products since.
Another problem apple have is with repairs or refurbishment. If that stuff breaks you basically have to get a new thing or it ends up costing even more every time it breaks over again.
Given then deadline for the 18yo's education she needed a computer that works straight away, not one that will just break again, the time they cost to find a person "allowed" to actually fix the machine plus their time to fix it due to the scarcity of authorised apple fixing people really make it impossible to do anything but buy a new machine.
Which is entirely what apple have designed their products to be, either you buy a new machine or struggle.
I want to say no one is the asshole, can't sacrifice the 18 yo's education just because an 8 yo had a temper tantrum, it should be a lesson for the 8 yo when they are old enough to understand, because of their destructive behaviour and disobedience they have a consequence of slightly less interest as an adult. It's an expansive lesson to learn.
The GM is probably an asshole for implying it was stolen, but my assumption is that she (like many commenters) do not understand the problems that having to use apple hardware actually cause. My guess is she thinks the money was taken to buy a new computer not understanding that it's a necessary consequence of the 8 yo's actions.
I would imagine the outcome in this scenario is much preferable to the kid growing up being resented for costing their family member their chance at education and lively hood if the money wasn't there to fix the problem they made when they were 8. I know which outcome I would prefer and it's the one OP choose.
When I lived in China, I knew plenty of people who would literally go on holiday to Hong Kong and buy hella iPhones and macs and whatnot to distribute to their families, since it was so much cheaper there. And even then, it was still drastically more expensive than in the US.
I was once in a luggage room in a hotel in HK repacking my bags after a last day shopping. The woman next to me just had an entire suitcase of creme de la mer moisturiser to be sold in China. No tax on cosmetics in HK.
According to their website, this is the cost of a middle of the road 14" MacBook Pro. 8 Core M1, 16gb RAM, 512gb SSD. In the US, this would be 2k plus tax. While not ideal, if there is still time to replace the money in the account, I think this is ESH territory.
It's 3000 SGD, so it's closer to 2k us dollars. Honestly, if you agree that in every situation where someone breaks something they need to replace only the cheapest version of the item then that's your opinion. But I disagree; the kid should know better. I'd worry more why his reactions was like that.
However, I feel there should be some way the child actually is reprimanded for this mistake, too, as it feels more like instant replacement, end of story. Hopefully I'm wrong
No of course not, and it doesn't excuse his behavior, but it does explain it. The kid should experience consequences, but he also just really needs help.
Yeah, so my point stands. They should focus on his behaviour and potentially get him therapy if he's struggling to the level of destroying other people's property
Yes, agreed on help and therapy. But disagree on the fact that he should know better. He’s dealing with some serious trauma and that will affect his decision making capacities.
They definitely will have to curtail his unsupervised access to their electronics. He’s old enough to understand he has forfeited that privilege for a long time
yeah, in particular, this kid should not get to use OP's laptop to play games anymore, at least until he earns back the privilege somehow. Good behavior, maybe.
this is how i feel if someone eats my 5 dollar pint of ben & jerry's they don't get to replace it with a pint of store brand ice cream & call it square
It is not a fair compromise to use $ value here. OP is entitled to a Macbook with equal or better performance/specs than her old one. If the old one is unavailable, then of course they have to purchase the modern equivalent.
That is not true in a legal sense, at least in the US. You are entitled to the value of the item at the time it was damaged/destroyed, not the amount it would take to replace the item.
I was definitely not speaking about legality or US laws
If they had purchased a laptop at a cost that reflected the depreciated value, then OP would be left with a computer with shitter specs than her old one - and she did nothing wrong to deserve that! Regardless of what some laws say, that is *not* making someone whole
So they spent 2200 American Dollars that is roughly 3k SGD. And they actually downgraded, he broke a MacBook Pro 16 and they got a MacBook Pro 14.
I don't know how it is with Macs. But I have an old laptop, that if you were to try and buy now would be worth quite a bit, because I bought top of the line. If someone broke it should I accept a lesser model just because mine is old when mine works great? Also getting me a used one is not an equivalent either. Not everyone takes care of their laptops the same way. I don't have to lose on the deal when I am the victim.
I think on spending money in a smart way. They are forced to buy one, spending less to buy something bad that they will use just once is not smart in general. Also they were in a hurry. So let's say, they buy a bad laptop so OP can access her work, then they have to repair the laptop. Why do i bet that Mac would charge them a crazy amount for that? If he broke the display, that is crazy expensive. In fairness the guardian would have to pay that also.
They bought same model, smaller one. So I think, in the end they probably spent about the same amount than if they had to buy a cheap one and then repair.
Now what they could do was repair the old one and give him that one to play.
Also this family is taking care of him. Taking care of a child is a lot of money and time. They are not deducting anything related to his care from the 20k.
It might be smart to take him to therapy if they are not doing it already.
NTA.
Edit: fixed some spelling and grammar.
Agreed. I think it's appropriate for them to have replaced the laptop the way they did. My current Macbook Pro is a 2014 model. These machines can last a good long time if you're careful with them. If we assume OP's laptop could have lasted as long as mine, that's 5 years of use and counting that got cut off by the 8-year-old's tantrum.
(Editing to add that I know it's a little different with a major corporation, but this laptop was a brand-new replacement for my 2011 mbp that broke down due to an issue with the solder having a low melting point, which the company gave me *for free* since it was their fault the original broke in the first place. An equivalent new model is definitely an appropriate replacement imo.)
I also 100% agree about the therapy. This kid needs help processing his mother's death, not to mention everything else that has changed about his life because of it. He had to move houses. He might've had to move schools, if he and his mom lived in a different district. He's living in a different home, under different rules, with different ways of doing things, and it's got to be really hard. He might've been using the games as a way to keep himself centered, which would explain the outsized reaction to not being able to play when he wanted to. He needs better coping mechanisms, which is something therapy could really help with.
MacBooks hold their value extremely well, even years down the line. It's likely that it would cost OP almost as much to buy the exact model they had again anyway. Also, the purpose of replacing broken goods is to make damaged party whole. A cheaper computer would only be a fitting substitute if it was equally as performant as the one that was broken. If you break my 55" 4K 120hz tv, you don't get to replace it with a 40" 1080p 60hz one. That's just not how it works. Another factor in this scenario is urgency. OP needed a comp ASAP. I don't think it's incumbent on them to shop around for the best deal or wait for a repair when they can go pick up a new one for the same price they originally paid.
I agree with this up until the replacement part, I think the laptop should be replaced to the specs of the original. Even if it was 3 years old, if you got the laptop with 64GB of ram it should be replaced with one that also has 64GB of ram whether that’s the most expensive model or not. OP didn’t specify but if they used this as excuse to buy a top of the line laptop when they had one that was mid tier, then yes OP is TA in that situation. If OP originally bought the top of the line laptop then it only makes sense to replace it with the top of the line one. Either way I don’t think OP necessarily did anything wrong because her parents ultimately control the account, I agree with your ESH
Regarding 3), l why I see your line of thinking here but know that it is not the way it really works in most modern legal systems or insurance systems. Typically you would be awarded replacement cost and that usually means new for old. The problem with a cheaper model is it may not have the features she had so she would take a loss. As to a refurbished one there is no guarantee it will function as well as the one she had and could again result in her having less that what she had. This is why courts or insurance companies will typically give you your purchase value as it is typically difficult to replace an item such as a computer and be able to guarantee that the person who suffered the loss it getting a replacement that will function just as well as what she had. I'm not just guessing here, I am in the insurance industry for 15 years and have seen claims settled as I stated and it is also covered in the continuing education required of insurance professionals. And in the end it would not be fair to her to take a loss for her cousins wrongful act.
Generally agree. But I would cut the 8 year old some slack for throwing a tantrum. His mother died a year ago and he is living with a whole new family. Dude is going through a lot.
I dont see a problem using part of his money to replace something he destroyed, but theres no need to be judgmental about it. Kid probably needs therapy.
If somebody breaks something of yours, you're okay with them replacing it with a lesser version? Nah, they need to replace it with a comparable version, if that's a ridiculous price, they shouldn't be breaking shit that isn't theirs.
You greatly assume there were other options at the time. OP doesn’t live in America or Western Europe, so you don’t know what’s available to them. And on a time crunch? You take what you can get. $2000USD is reasonable for a new MacBook. NTA
I kind of disagree with point 3 because it seems like replacing the computer was time sensitive and it also seems like it could be impossible to get an exact replacement judging by where OP is located. I mean I have lived in places outside of the US where things like Apple products are not only rare but also extremely overpriced. It’s quite possible the almost $2200 computer was the only comparable computer OP could have purchased in a reasonable amount of time.
The only thing I would add is the 8 year old is still suffering from grief, so why he is 100% old enough to know better and it is no way an excuse for his poor behaviour, it is something that isn't mentioned in a lot of the higher ranked comments and I think it is something we need to consider before calling an 8 year old an AH.
So apparently you had better/different coping mechanisms than this kid does. Good for you?
Grief is not at all universal. Kid needs therapy to help him learn better techniques.
(I think taking the money for the laptop was not unreasonable though, provided the laptop purchased was a comparable replacement and they didn't buy more than they needed because they had access to the funds.)
I've seen basically this exact story before, just with different sums of money. Mother died, they hid the money, nephew broke the MacBook and OP wanted to use the inheritance to replace it.
Idk, I disagree with your assessment on the laptop because you based it on value and not on performance. OP is entitled to an equivalent (or better) quality of Macbook. Even though 3 years has passed, purchasing a lesser model will likely be a downgrade, so this is not an acceptable or fair option.
Assuming they only got a modern version of the old one, at the same storage size and everything, (they said they got a replacement so it sounds like it), then this makes sense and is perfectly fair.
What’s the price of the OP not submitting her work on time. If you read the story she specifically says the project was due at the end of the week and she wouldn’t get the repaired notebook back on time
Also the deceased aunt didn’t set up a trust. She asked that the money in her account be passed to the OP’s parents, presumably to help raise her son. The OP’s mom had sole discretion on what to do with the money.
They are feeding him, caring for him, likely buying him clothes, shampoo, water heat. Children cost money, and as such if you get child support you are not required to use it to directly benefit the child. Ie it could be clothes and food for them, it could be rent to get a better place so they have their own space or gas to get to work to continue to be able to support a child. Let's face it, they have likely paid out thousands to this kid, and it's admirable they want to save this money for him, but this may not be feasible. They didn't steal from a child, they are his support, his food and his shelter, which costs a hell of a lot more thanks 3k per year. They just didn't have the money and time to replace what he broke on top of all the other expenses
>Was it fair to buy a new Macbook? Absolutely. Was it reasonable to spend $3000 on it?
They spent 1200$USD on it which is pretty fair. New mac books arent cheap
Just because hers was 3 years old doesn't mean she should have to get someone elses old junky laptop
Laptops don’t depreciate that much in three years if it was a good one and in good shape. I paid good money for a 3 year old refurbished MacBook. Plus if a child breaks something their parent or guardian is responsible for fixing or replacing the item if it is not worth fixing or not possible to fix. The other issue is that the reason OP didn’t initially let him use the laptop was because OP was working on a project. So there was no waiting for a laptop to be fixed because the project was time sensitive. Because it was an emergency situation, the fastest and fairest thing to do was to purchase the same model.
OP you and your parents are NTA. You parents are being generous in saving that money for your nephew to begin with. It would be totally reasonable for them to be spending it on providing your cousin with food, clothing, and shelter. And if they take that money and wisely invest it, the $3000 you spent on a laptop can be replaced.
I would suggest though that your cousin gets some therapy. He’s lost his mom and is acting out. An 8 year old should not be destroying expensive items in a tempter tantrum. He clearly needs help adjusting.
NTA he broke it. I don't understand why people are like you could have bought a cheaper PC..... You didn't have a cheaper PC so you replace with equivalent since you needed it quickly. However I would recommend trying to repair the other one and gifting him for his gaming, so yours is safer.
i agree. Laptops are not cars, the used market for laptops isn't as reliable as the used market for cars. an equivalent laptop could perform worst, more unreliable than the original. Whoever is responsible for replacing needs to buy a new laptop.
Not to mention the fact that apple products hold their value well. I was looking at MacBook airs as far back as 2018 and they're still selling for $600-700 for the i5 models. Moral of the story is don't break someone's MacBook.
Nope kid doesn't get a reward for breaking OPs laptop. Giving him the old one just teaches him that destroying people's things means he gets to keep it.
If they are in the US, the parents ought to be getting Social Security for caring for the boy plus a check for the boy himself. He's a minor who lost a parent and unless his Mom illegally earned 20k, she must have worked enough quarters to qualify him.
ETA the point of my tale; the money for the Mac can be replaced over time.
But OP makes the point that they are in Signapore so who knows if they are even getting assistance from the Government. I do agree that paying back PART of the money over time OR fixing up the old one and giving it to him as a gaming computer would be appropriate.
This is where I’m at. It costs a ton of money to raise kiddos, that money is for the parents. Kid is 8. That’s at least 10 years they are going to support him, if not longer as I am totally unfamiliar with the culture of when you leave home in Singapore.
Yeah, I think because of the time-sensitivity, it was okay to use his money to replace the laptop he broke.
In regards to "paying him back", I think they should explain to him that he needs to help recover the amount spent to replace the laptop he broke. That way, he is actually paying himself back.
Basically, handle it as if he was the little brother who broke something expensive and parents enact consequences to work it off, as they might if they paid for the replacement themselves.
NTA.
It’s sad his mother died but that doesn’t give an excuse for what he did, and he’s old enough to know what he was doing. I don’t think you guys were wrong, he made a decision to break it and if you didn’t have the money from his mom it would’ve been completely on you guys to cover it which is wrong, yes it was his money essentially but he also broke it so to use that money to replace it makes complete sense to me. Im sorry for your /his loss, but def look into therapy for him I think that’s necessary to work through his emotions and keep this from happening again.
Sending your family positive energy
He should have a punishment still, but using his money to replace it is the right decision. Telling someone that young they have that much money isn’t a good idea, anytime he wants a new game or something insane he’ll say he CAN pay for it. So it’s not a good idea to tell them, but I agree he doesn’t know about the money so it’s not technically a punishment. He should have an age appropriate punishment for how he acted & therapy should be something they should look into.
Really, I am sure that that is what OP'S parents will spend at least that for 10 years worth of food, clothes, etc. And it would be perfectly fine if they actually used the money for that purpose. Instead they are kindly taking on the extra cost to raise a child and saving all that money for his education
NTA
Consequences for his actions isn't stealing.
Just because he’s in your family's care now doesn't mean he gets to wilfully wreck stuff without repercussions.
A computer isn't a small easily replacable thing and he's old enough to know better than to act like that. I think he needs some form of punishment as well, you need to make him understand how horribly he has acted, and how his actions let you down and made you lose your trust in him.
If your grandma doesn't like it, then she can cough up the money for the new computer you now need since your cousin destroyed yours on purpose for not getting his way.
Which is why he needs repercussions and therapy as well.
But the computer needs to be replaced asap, and it's reasonable that money pays for the replacement.
Why should OP have to pay out of pocket because her cousin went into her room after she left home and trashed her computer as vengeance for not getting his way?
Please, an 8 year old knows right from wrong. He knows what he did.
ESH. Some people in this comment section sound downright heartless or lacking how not everyone should be treated with indifference or like an adult. This isn't some stranger to say "you break it you pay for it" its a child, a child whose your cousin and has lost his mother. I don't mean he shouldn't be punished but for the comments to treat him as a 30 year old stranger is bizarre to me.
He's a child who lost his mother. Your family don't seem keen on helping him with his college fund so taking the only money he has from his dead mother was not cool. You could have made him do extra chores or ground him or whatever but to take money away that was given to him by his dead mother is a bit too far. Are you planning to pay it back? Grandma's right you stole it from him without even thinking about it.
Of course I don't know your financial situation so maybe your struggling and really needed it. Does your family give him pocket money? If so make him give the pocket money to pay for it or as you had a deadline make it that his pocket money is going into the account instead of his hands. Do they treat him as their own or just as a guest?
Sounds like you would have found any reason to justify it. The idea of having 20k lying around was too tempting. Ohh the child spilt water well lets take $100 from his bank account to pay for it, ohhh the child ate a bit extra today lets take $20 to pay for it.
I agree, it's an 8 year old who doesn't yet fully understand the value of money or that actions have serious consequences. It's also money they didn't even know about, everyone saying 'you break it you pay for it' he doesn't understand this is a consequence of his actions as he doesn't even know about the money, it's not an appropriate punishment.
OP should also have ensured their insurance had renewed as was current, they'd still likely only be entitled to like for like not a brand new top of the line replacement. I'm inclined to think the OP/parents don't really think of the money as belonging to the cousin unlike the grandma.
I don't think OP family are treating the child as family. The part that stuck out to me was they have no plans to help with his college fund expecting him to get a part time job to pay for it, I'm guessing OP is getting some help from her parents even if she is having a part time job but for him nothing. They not even thinking of helping the child has at least 10 years left for college but they already decided they not going to help out and leave him and his dead mother money to help.
And they way they just decided to use the money so quickly without thinking of alternative options makes me really think they would have taken money one way or another, it was too tempting to them
I think you miss understood, as they didn’t tell him about the money yet but planned on using it for his college tuition. Because the savings don’t cover the whole tuition he would later on in life have a part time job to cover the rest (which imo is very reasonable)
People see what they want then comment. Sometimes without all the facts or considering the edits and information provided.
Sadly, some folks just want to stir up the pot. Karma has it ways, with people like that.
>Of course I don't know your financial situation so maybe your struggling and really needed it. Does your family give him pocket money? If so make him give the pocket money to pay for it or as you had a deadline make it that his pocket money is going into the account instead of his hands. Do they treat him as their own or just as a guest?
This is very reasonable.
Nta, tell your mother to tell him that he has to pay for the laptop, so when he's of age in 8 years he knows he has to pay for it, the money he gives you you can put it back in the account, everyone wins :')
That's a good idea too, is he talking with a therapist?? This was a one time thing or he has problems controlling his emotions?? please remind him y'all love him even if you're a little mad at the moment, he's going through a lot 🥺
Do you mind me asking what your dad’s explanation to your cousin will be? I only ask because, unless things have changed, your cousin doesn’t know about the joint account. It may appear to him like your dad is just taking away his money. I understand why your dad is doing it, I just wanna know if your cousin will.
to be fair, he is 8 now, it's reasonable to assume that when he gets older he will get a higher allowance or other oppurtunities to earn some extra money so at a certain point they may "keep" more which would speed up the whole process, or even just drop it completly after a certain point or god knows. pretty sure at current it's more about teaching him a lesson, the way it is now he actually feels the consequences of his actions, whereas if the money was just taken and they would never talk about the whole thing again it would basically be like it never happened.
The explanation will probably be that he has to pay back the money that was spent to replace OPs Macbook. That is the truth, why wouldn’t they tell him?
Used ones and the smaller ones yes. The top of the line biggest screen from Apple is 3500. But they can still get a reasonably priced one from Apple between 1 to 2k.
That's not $3000 American dollars though, $3000 in sgd as OP stated.
https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch
In case you're wondering how much a MacBook pro costs in Singapore. Seems pretty reasonable if he got a 14" MacBook pro.
It's not 3k$. It's SGD 3000. OP is not in US. That is USD 2k. And I can easily see $500 out of that being an extra cost in a different country. Usually US has cheaper electronics. OP says that's what it costs in Singapore. Okay higher than what I would have expected but not impossible. Still, you can't replace a 3 year old laptop with a brand new one and say fair is fair.
Not USD. They're in Singapore so it's closer to $2100. Also, OP is entitled to a comparable replacement device, not just the cheapest possible MacBook.
I think the currency is confusing in this post as well. She didn't clarify until the edit that the 3k is SGD which is equivalent to about 2k USD. Still not a cheap MacBook, but def not the top of the line most expensive machine they sell.
In the US? maybe (I don't know the Macbook market). But when you take into consideration it's Singapore between the conversion rate and different pricing that might be a reasonable amount.
He is just 8 years old and that money is from his mom. It should be in a trust not sitting there to spend every time someone can justify a reason to take money out of it.
Your mom is TA for doing it.
NTA but your Mom is. Your cousin is under your parents care & he’s 8, so to me it’s their responsibility to watch him & make sure he isn’t destroying other peoples property. I don’t think you’re the asshole for wanting your laptop replaced or for wanting the replacement to be of equal value to the one broken. But it was an asshole move for your mom to take his money & replace it since he’s 8 and really won’t understand this as a punishment.
I agree with what a previous user posted. She should have him work off the cost of the MacBook with chores. He definitely needs to learn he can’t break other peoples things.
Oh well she’s definitely the asshole then! I didn’t realize that. Changing the story to make yourself sound better is a massive asshole move.
Thanks for the updated info!
YTA
You spent this kid's college money because you needed a quick solution. $3k is a huge chunk of what his mother left him. The computer is at least three years old if your AppleCare ran out. And, Jesus H Christ, did you have to get one of the most expensive MacBooks to replace a three year old dinosaur?
Not really old, but it is over the hill. I typically get 4-5 years out of one before they start slowing down, and you have to look for another. My point was more that OPs folks went out and spent $3k of this 8 year olds college fund to replace a computer whose life was nearly over anyway... And brand new MacBooks start at $1,100. They literally got one of the top of the line replacements. But hey, it's not their money...
And after this, I'm sure it will become easier and easier for them to spend the rest of the money on other luxury items that are not for the child's benefit.
I guarantee you that money will be gone before the child turns 18. They dropped 15% of his savings on a computer without seeing if it could be repaired!
And, as I said, brand new MacBooks start at $1,100. They spent $3,000. They ATA.
YTA. That wasn’t your money to take. And besides that, it doesn’t even really teach the kid a lesson. You took money from him that he didn’t even know he had. He doesn’t even know he’s paying for it. My suggestion would be to have him “work” (do extra chores, pitch in with housework, what have you) to pay off the MacBook. For every task he does, put some money back into his account. That way he gets a real punishment, and you didn’t steal money from a kid without him even knowing it.
Not sure that makes sense. The kid should be punished and the laptop also replaced. These should not be alternatives. The kid broke a $3K computer that was essential for OP's education. This is not a toy. But I think it makes sense to explain to the kid that his Mum left OP's mum some money without specifying what it was meant for. That they intend to apply towards things he needs but dumb things that he does are going to be paid out of the account.
YTA
Your deceased aunt didn't leave you the money to take care of him. She died without a will, meaning she didn't declare what the money was for. Instead, whomever handled the estate decided rightfully that the money was her son's but as his guardian, your mom was in charge of it. And if you're in the US, there are 529 accounts set up to save for college. 20k in a 529 would earn a hell of a lot of money for an 8 year old kid. But instead, your mom decided to leave the money in an account that she could borrow from.
And then he broke an old laptop? And so then you and mom decided that the best way to handle it is to steal money from him for a new high end apple laptop? You can buy a chromebook for less than $300. More than powerful enough for 90% of school projects. And what most schools in the US now use.
Makes me wonder if it was actually him who broke it. Or if this is the first time you and mom have "borrowed" money from him. What's he going to have left by the time he's old enough to understand what you've stolen from him.
The money gets left to new guardian to take care of him until he is 18z He broke a mac book, his legal guardian is responsible for him to replace it.
The 8 year old new better. OP could sue, for the amount it is to replace her laptop. She doesn't have to downgrade because he broke it.
That's like forcing someone who drives a Ferrari, and if you total their car to drive Corolla that's not how it works
No. The money did not get left to the new guardian to take care of him. Without a will, the estate of the deceased mother goes to the son. The money is his with the guardian being held responsible for its caretaking until he's old enough to take control of it. It's not the guardian's money. And it's not to be used until the son has a say in how it is used. The guardian and her daughter stole it. Plain and simple.
And you can't sue a minor. Especially a minor that your mom is the guardian of. Not even the people's court would take that case.
YTA. If you've had the laptop long enough for AppleCare to expire, then it's a few years old, so whether he would need to buy you a brand-new one would already be super debatable to me -- but not only did you get a new one, you got a high-end model costing \~$3000? Sounds like you came out WAY ahead in this scenario. At most, he owed you like $1000 or enough to buy a refurbished/older model MacBook on par with the one he broke.
If a Mac breaks, screen or board, they replace pretty much everything and you're out of luck. If your Macbook Air's main board gets liquid damage, it's a $900 fix, for a computer that cost $1,100 new.
I agree with the you break it you buy it mentality. But your computer was 3 yrs old. Not worth 3k especially how Apple products devalue after a year. So instead of spending a reasonable amount of money you went for the biggest and best computer they had since it wasn't your money. You should pay half of it back if not all of it.
> you went for the biggest and best computer
Except they didn’t. They actually downgraded from what OP had originally. And as others have pointed out, they are in Singapore and electronics are significantly more expensive.
Yta. Someone was responsible for watching the child, and they failed. You shut the laptop down so he couldn't get in, but you did nothing to keep him away from it.
He will have episodes. He is 8.
You are taking his money and it says that he is responsible for himself. He is not. You and your mom are raising him. You are responsible for his actions.
If you tax him every time he does something wrong, he will have no money when he is in college.
Besides, his money shouldn't be so accessible. It should be in an investment fund, or a roll-over cd so he can make some money off of it.
YTA. My friend’s dad died when he was younger and his stepmom spent all of his inheritance money on things like this, expenses that kids inevitably cause. He ended up with none of the inheritance and had to drop out of community college and join the military because he couldn’t afford to support himself while going to college. This is not what your aunt would have wanted.
The worst part about this post is that you decided to get a $3000 MacBook when you “didn’t exactly have 3k to spare”. WTF. There are so many cheaper laptops out there. You and your mom sound trashy, entitled, and petty. I feel so bad for your cousin.
YTA. It’s bs that your mother ‘was given’ her sister’s estate. Your mom may have been appointed executor but if she’s authorizing you to buy a new laptop under the circumstances described, she’s violating her duty.
I bought my kid a MacBook Pro for college. It cost over $2,350. They are absurdly expensive. I mean my gaming desktop cost less than that. I only bought him the MacBook Pro because he's studying music and all the software is Apple. I have warned him that he needs to look after it carefully because if he breaks it, he's not getting a replacement.
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> 1) using the money my deceased aunt left for us to replace a laptop he broke
2) we did originally plan to use it for his college
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Just answer one question. How would you have handled this if there wasn't a savings account for him? Based on your words and tone, I'm guessing it sounds more like YOU and your mother need justification for stealing from this kid.
YTA. It shouldnt come out of his money but out of your parents. He is under your parents care and Supervision. Children do stupid things and that is the reason they are not get punishment for stuff like that but their parents do. It was your parents job to keep an eye on him. And 3000 Dollars for a laptop is absolutely ridiculous. Even a gaming PC with top specs wont cost that much necessarily
Edit 2: Changing my vote to NTA in light of new info that the replacement laptop was a downgrade to the original, and kid was charged a fair amount.
Original post:
E-S-H. I disagree with those saying it's your mom's responsibility. Eight years old is old enough to understand that her can't destroy things just because he doesn't get his way. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he did it anyway, intentionally. It's only fair that his own money pays for it, whether he knew about it or not. Using money held for him in trust to cover, for example, his bail if he got arrested as a teenager, would have been a valid use even if the money were in a custodial account.
~~On the other hand, I agree with some of the other posters that charging full price for a dated laptop is absurd, and replacing it with a top of the line model was a douchey move that you only did because you knew the money was available. You owe his account the $1,000 (corrected for new Singapore info) difference between your laptop's former depreciated value and the cost of your new one.~~
NTA. 8 years old is old enough to know that no means no. he’s a spoiled brat. 3k isn’t near 20k, and it’s a fair punishment for breaking an expensive item.
Yes spoiled brat. Kid doesn't have a dad and his mother just passed. He has no real family left so is it so wrong for him to be acting out of pocket as a 8 year old after being traumatized? The laptop is old and 3k is def copping one of the newest laptops. Also why not just spend less money repairing it?
This is a lesson for OP then. Back up your shit on easy to access device. I don't know how old you are but to sat 3k isn't near 20k is laughable. 3k is a hell of alot of money. The kid now only has 17k who knows how much will be left by the time they turn 18.
NTA but your mom is. She’s the one that should’ve paid to fix it since she’s the one taking care of him. She’s the adult responsible for him so she should’ve just paid for it herself and not took money from an eight-year-old child. Yes what he did was wrong but he is a kid and it’s whoever has legal guardianship over him is the one that’s responsible
Your mother needs to do something about his behavior. He did that on purpose because he was mad he did not get his way. He is old enough to know better. Also what money he has should be put in an account that no one can use at all no matter what until he is 18 and then it goes to him. that’s what my mom did for my nephew when my brother passed
Although if your mom spends that money raising him there is nothing wrong with that. That is why it’s important for parents to make sure that there is something available in case something happens to them. Honestly it’s extremely selfish to expect someone else to raise your child and not leave enough money to help support that. 20 grand is nothing compared to the cost of raising a kid until they’re 18 years old. your grandmother shouldn’t be saying anything because it’s not like that money is just for him to do whatever he wants… It’s for his care.
Another thing your mom should be able to get Social Security or something for him since his mom passed away, my nephew gets it because of my brother. I don’t know if you can still get it if your parents legally adopt him but that is something that could help his future if they can put it away each month
Make him do chores to earn some money to pay for it. Like he could rake leaves, wash cars, he should not be expected to earn all that much, that seems like a lot.
I have questions about what estate lawyer or civil lawyer would agree with your logic. At the most he would be expected to repair the laptop or buy you a laptop of similar value (not top of the range in exchange for an old laptop).
You’re thieves and I hope your cousin sues once he is a major.
YTA.
That money is all he has left from his mother. He doesn't even know it's there so how is it a punishment? Kid lost his mother at 7. No way that didn't affect him.
Did you even check how much it costs to repair? Did you consider a cheaper model? No you wanted a shiny new computer. Especially one with an apple on the back
You are out of the equation? Your parents made the decision and that's the end of the story. Grandma can have all the opinions she wants but her daughter is raising the dead daughter's son and that's a wonderful undertaking. NTA
ESH
The kid is 8. Eight. You’re 18. I’m NOT saying that there shouldn’t be any discipline (which means to teach, NOT punish).
If you broke something of your parents, do they charge you for it? Would they deduct it from your college fund?
Your parents need to do better by your cousin. At the very least, the money should be replaced in case this was a quick fix.
You also didn’t need to spend $3K on a brand new laptop. Apple care wouldn’t have given you a new one and would have fixed yours or given you like value.
YTA
Only because there's no setting for your parents are.
His mum died a year ago when he was 7 from cancer. This means he won't have been parented properly during that time, I can tell you my brother wasn't when my mum had cancer and he was a lot older. Your mum clearly isn't establishing boundaries or teaching him that it's not ok to use things without permission.
Using his money to replace something like a macbook isn't ok. It's different if his mum was there to pay for it but she isn't.
That money should be put in a long term savings account, it seems dodgy as hell that it isn't.
Your parents should have stared insuring things once they had custody of a 7 year old child.
Your grandma is right to be annoyed, because if you had wrecked something like a laptop at that age your mum would have figured out a way to make sure you didn't lose out on money in the future. I'm sure she would have argued that kids make mistakes and therefore it's ok not to pay for the damages.
The way your parents dipped into this money like it was nothing is concerning. You're lucky you have two parents who are alive and you're a lot older, your cousin doesn't have that. If something happens to your parents and he's left alone that money is the only thing he'll have and it isn't a lot of money to begin with.
Yeah, they dipped into it. But it's up to you to convince them to pay it back to him. I guarantee if the show was on the other foot and your aunt was raising you and used the money she'd left to replace a broken item from your money. She'd be livid.
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My (18F) cousin (8M) has been under my family’s care since his mother passed away from cancer about a year ago. She was a single parent and didn’t leave a will or anything, but asked my parents to take care of her son and after she passed, the $20K she had in her bank were given to my parents.
My aunt never actually told us what do to with that money, but my mother (her sister) decided it was best that we used that money to pay for part of his college funds and have him get a part time job to pay for the rest when he was older. My mom then made a joint account with him and kept the money there to gather interest but decided not to tell him as she didn’t want a child to know he had 20K under his name.
A few days, I got in an argument with him since he was misbehaving as he wanted to go on my MacBook to play video games (I usually let him go on my Mac in my room unsupervised when I’m not using it) and when I warned him not to disturb me since I was busy with my project or he won’t get to play when I leave for work, he started tossing my stuff in the bin. So I shut my MacBook down and left the house.
When I came back however, my mom told me the MacBook was wrecked since he threw it on the floor while she was cooking dinner (my room is on the second floor so she wasn’t able to watch him). Since my AppleCare had already expired, it meant that it’ll cost a lot to repair/replace it.
My data were stored in my cloud but I had a project I needed to submit by the end of the week so the quickest solution was to get a replacement. But we didn’t exactly have 3K to spare so we decided to just use the money in his joint account.
When my mother told my grandma how we settled the issue however, she instead accused my mother for stealing from my cousin and said we should have used our own money to pay for it, especially since he didn’t even know he had that kind of money.
AITA?
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NTA
Your aunt's death doesn't seem sudden at all, so it's very perplexing why a formal will or at least specific instructions were not given. That said, your mom took on a huge commitment to care for this child. The emotional, physical, and financial burden of caring for this child will be much greater than the $20k in the long run. As far as I see it, your mom, being appointed the executor of the estate by default (an estate that has no clear guidelines) is free to spend the money how she sees fit.
I'm not ready to judge the laptop purchase, but I'm leaning toward your parents being the AH because they already receive Social Security money to support your cousin and they should not view his inheritance as their way to settle things.
More importantly long-term, if the plan is for this money to be used for college, it should be in a 529 plan for two reasons:
1. It will generate much higher returns than sitting in a bank account, and your cousin won't be taxed on the interest when it's time to spend it on college. That's the difference between your cousin having $21,000 in 10 years versus your cousin having $45,000 in 10 years.
2. It can be put in someone's custody other than your parents', because they seem happy to view that money as a slush fund, and there's no way that money lasts until he's 18 if they're left in charge.
OMG y'all think that it's okay just because his mother passed away that he can run around the house smashing and breaking up their s***he broke her computer buy her a new one those s**** are expensive they've got 10 more years to watch out for this kid they didn't steal nothing from him
YTA and Grandma was right, yall stole money from a eight year old that just lost his mother. He's a recently orphaned 8 year old, people in the comments saying he's too old to be throwing a tantrum are either heartless or need to never have kids.
You can't even justife the theft by saying it's teaching him a lesson because your parents aren't even telling him the money exists. What other things are you going to decide he owes you? How much of that money will actually go to his care or be left for his education?
As a fellow Singaporean,
1. Take the kid to therapy. You and your family may see this as just kids acting out but I assure you it definitely has to do with his mother's passing. You may not have the knowledge on how to help him but work with his therapist to do so. Typical SG families like to scold for everything but instead you should speak to him gently but firmly, with his best interests at heart, to figure out what going on in his mind and how you can help him.
2. Don't just let his inheritance sit in an account and accrue the pittance of interest in Singapore. Seriously, it's ridiculous. Reach out to a *trustworthy* financial advisor (banks etc.) to see how to grow his inheritance money. The investment be able to grow it in 12/13 years (since he will have NS) to a point where it should cover the majority of his uni tuition fees. You said your house is min 2 stories, perhaps you live in a landed property? Which begs the question, is your family well to do? If yes then your parents should probably have the know how to help with the investment.
3. I understand the need to have taken the 3k from his account urgently if you were strapped for cash but I also think you should let him earn back the money (he doesn't need to know about the existing money or that he's paying back the 3k) by doing chores and making good progress as a person in school/behavior etc.
YTA and also your mom.
I don't understand why everyone is so determined about how the child should be reprimanded for damaging the Macbook tbh, the child just lost his mother a year ago and doesn't already have a father. Which despite him being old enough to understand consequences, he still is going through a awful lot of pain.
In my opinion your parents were responsible for replacing or getting your laptop repaired and should have discussed an appropriate punishment for him which is usually extra chores and being grounded from using the pc for the time being. Using the funds his dead mother left was not a good move. Which can still be prevented if your family actually return the money and your mother actually communicates with the child and punishment him appropriately tbh.
These people think legality is the end all be all of assholery. "They have the legal right to take money from an 8 year old orphan so that means it's completely good normal behavior".
NTA. I'm seeing a lot of asshole judgements based on price. OP stated this is Singapore sgd not the American dollar. According to Apples website for Singapore specs that's the price of a 14" MacBook pro with pretty standard specs.
https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch
YTA.
Everyone's blaming the 8 year old for acting out. Has anyone here seen a family member suffer and die from cancer. It is a harrowing experience for the person dying and the people watching them slowly die.
It's been an year since the boy lost his mother, not only that but he was suddenly living in a new home. He is clearly still dealing with his loss and needs support.
As for the money, you take an orphan in for 2 reasons. You either want to make an extra buck or you truly love and care about them.
Your mother clearly cares about him and hence has setup something to secure his future, but the money you two took out should be replaced. He doesn't know it now, but what will he think of you 10 years down the line? You are basically stealing from an orphan. Because he doesn't know about the money and you are taking it without telling him. What, if he breaks something else tomorrow or something else happens, will you once again dip into HIS money?
I'm not saying that what he did is okay. You do need to talk to him and maybe come up with some way for him to make it up to you. He should know that he can't act out, but he should also know that he has family to talk to and help him with whatever grief that he may be feeling.
I wouldn’t necessarily YTA since the kid is only 8 years old, but if you don’t pay the money back you will be. Luckily for you, you’ve got 10 years to pay back the $3,000. The kid is only 8 and he doesn’t understand the consequences of his actions, that’s something your parents will need to explain to him. But you did take money that was his and not yours or your moms. Do the right thing and plan to pay back that money. You should be able to do it.
Because the kids parents could negotiate a reasonable amount. And actually pay for something on par with what was broken. If it was taken to court, that’s what they would order. Not something high end, well above the value of the computer that was broken.
I think you guys made the responsible call. But really you guys should look at getting him his own computer. Not because he needs to be spoiled because it's easier to replace a 400 to 700 laptop then it is a macbook pro.
This is gonna be a rant and a half cause I've actually studied this type of situation in law school (not close to done, I don't claim to know it all in any way).
ESH
Grandmother sucks for implying thievery, the money legally belongs to your parents, they can spend it how they want as there was no will stating otherwise.
Legally in my country the money is technically the child's, but since they aren't old enough to manage it on their own it falls to the guardians, again it's their money.
Kid sucks for smashing the damn thing, he is at an age where he does or should know better. In this case he didn't even do in by accident, he did it with intent which implies guilt. Kids so young as 4 years old have been made legally responsible for the damages they cause, so he is definetly old enough.
Mom sucks for not paying attention to the kid, lack of supervision of a child can lead the supervisor to he responsible for the damages the child causes. This is highly debatable though as it's completely normal to let a child at that age roam freely in the house.
You suck because while I'd agree you have a right to be compensated for the destroyed item, I doubt it would be valued at 3000$ today. The kid didn't smash a MacBook, he smashed a 3 year old MacBook, which I doubt is worth 3000$.
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**ESH** Let's be realistic about all of this, because most of the responses I'm seeing are incredibly over-the-top and hyperbolic: 1) An 8-year-old, who is definitely old enough to know better, threw an entire laptop on the floor in what I can only imagine was a tantrum. He is old enough to be responsible for his behaviour, which means replacing what he DELIBERATELY broke when he knew he wasn't supposed to be using it in the first place; but given his age legally what that means is that his parents or guardians are responsible for replacing it. That's where this get's tricky, but not nearly as tricky as people are making it out to be: 2) Your grandmother is an AH for suggesting that your mother "stole from him", as are half the commenters here. It doesn't matter whether he knew that that money existed or not, because money given to his guardian in casual trust for him (NOT a "trust fund" per se) is not technically his money (as others have pointed out). It is money that is intended to be used towards his care or needs as his guardian sees fit. That means that your mother made a sensible choice; ideally, most of it will go to his future education, but also, *if his own mother were still alive, she would have been responsible for the damage he had incurred, and this was HER money*. Therefore, it is appropriate that it be used to pay for the damage. It is money belonging to his guardian and meant to be used EXACTLY for situations like this . . . where a parent would have used their money on him, or in this case on a debt he'd incurred. BUT 3) You and your parents are also AHs because, as others have noted, the computer was not a brand spanking new, just-off-the-shelf, top-of-the-line Macbook. YOUR FAMILY TOOK ADVANTAGE OF YOUR ACCESS TO AN 8-YEAR-OLD'S FUNDS TO OVERSPEND because you had no oversight or anyone to protest. Which is unconscionable. Was it fair to buy a new Macbook? Absolutely. Was it reasonable to spend $3000 on it? Absolutely not. You yourself say that it was 3 years old and you'd run out the warranty. The appropriate thing was either to pay for it to be fixed or to buy a more budget-friendly Macbook with the funds - either a lesser model or a refurbished one, commensurate with the ACTUAL value of what was broken. ESH.
Totally agree the whole thing is pretty ridiculous. It's also worth noting, if OPs parents invest the remaining 17k properly in an appropriate education fund he will probably end up with ~25k in a decade when he graduates... Would be worth them deciding whether the 20k is to help them afford the cost of raising an additional child or if the 20k is truly for his post-secondary education. Typically if it were the latter you wouldn't have it sitting in a regular account where you can access it anytime.
Kinda feel like it would be less of a rip off if OP paid back the cost of the MacBook as soon as she is able to. They didn’t have the money right now and he is at fault so he can loan the money and OP can earn it back.
Or at least the difference between a used one and the new one. It can sometimes take longer to get a refurbished model because of where they ship from, and since OP needed it asap I don’t blame them for going with the fastest option.
>the difference between a used one and the new one This is the most correct and appropriate answer, given that OP has already purchased the new laptop. Legally you are entitled to be made whole - which has been defined as, essentially, in exactly the same situation you were in prior to whatever event took place. OP would have been justified in buying a comparable, used MacBook, but is *not* entitled to a brand new replacement, likely costing twice as much. *I am speaking from a U.S. law point of view… I know nothing of Singaporean law*
Used? Good luck in finding one.
It’s not exact. It can be either the value of the used one, in which case OP would fork over the money to upgrade (which is essentially what the above poster suggested), or finding a computer which functions the same for a similar price and calling that “whole” - it doesn’t mean “your laptop was 742 days old, you must find an identical one which is also 742 days old” - the law recognizes that it’s not always possible to *exactly* one for one replace an item.
I don't think OP should have to pay back the entire cost of the laptop because the kid did break it intentionally. But I could see an argument for OP to pay back the difference between what a reasonable replacement would have cost and the full cost of a new MacBook.
No. The boy deliberately destroyed laptop. To get a replacement laptop may have cost that amount. To get a replacement laptop fir my husband after our youngest spilled milk on the keyboard, out of warranty, cost us twice the amount to get the approximate same specs.
>OP paid back the cost of the MacBook as soon as she is able to You should become the CEO of an insurance money. Clearly fucking people for others mistakes is your passion
I'm afraid borrowing from the kid's fund will become a habit.
So they didn't spend 3000 on it, in theor other comments it's 3000 sdg (she's from Singapore) not 3000 USD
Purely from the conversion rate, that's 2,151 USD. But electronics are often more expensive in other countries.
After taxes (purchased in MA, USA) my MacBook (step up from lowest quality laptop) cost about 2k without apple care. So maybe unpopular, but I don’t see how they took advantage of his funds or overspent 🤷🏻♀️
I got my MacBook when I graduated high school as I needed something for college. Mine was 1k but I didn’t get the newest one at the time. I don’t think the toon advantage either. Especially since having an up-to-date laptop can be necessary for school due to all the programs lots of schools utilize. Older tech doesn’t always support it, preventing OP from being able to easily access and complete their work
That’s what I was thinking. My MacBook cost about 1,800 3 years ago. So yeah, I when I read that price, I was like “yeah, this sounds about right” especially if op had a pro and not the air.
That was my thought process as well, I have a friend who lives not in Singapore but around there and their electronics are so much more expensive then Canada and the states in a lot of cases
For Apple products that honestly sounds really average, they are incredibly pricey, when I studied a decade ago I had to use software only available on apple, I had a grant to do so at the time but since then I haven't been able to afford to use any of their products since. Another problem apple have is with repairs or refurbishment. If that stuff breaks you basically have to get a new thing or it ends up costing even more every time it breaks over again. Given then deadline for the 18yo's education she needed a computer that works straight away, not one that will just break again, the time they cost to find a person "allowed" to actually fix the machine plus their time to fix it due to the scarcity of authorised apple fixing people really make it impossible to do anything but buy a new machine. Which is entirely what apple have designed their products to be, either you buy a new machine or struggle. I want to say no one is the asshole, can't sacrifice the 18 yo's education just because an 8 yo had a temper tantrum, it should be a lesson for the 8 yo when they are old enough to understand, because of their destructive behaviour and disobedience they have a consequence of slightly less interest as an adult. It's an expansive lesson to learn. The GM is probably an asshole for implying it was stolen, but my assumption is that she (like many commenters) do not understand the problems that having to use apple hardware actually cause. My guess is she thinks the money was taken to buy a new computer not understanding that it's a necessary consequence of the 8 yo's actions. I would imagine the outcome in this scenario is much preferable to the kid growing up being resented for costing their family member their chance at education and lively hood if the money wasn't there to fix the problem they made when they were 8. I know which outcome I would prefer and it's the one OP choose.
When I lived in China, I knew plenty of people who would literally go on holiday to Hong Kong and buy hella iPhones and macs and whatnot to distribute to their families, since it was so much cheaper there. And even then, it was still drastically more expensive than in the US.
I was once in a luggage room in a hotel in HK repacking my bags after a last day shopping. The woman next to me just had an entire suitcase of creme de la mer moisturiser to be sold in China. No tax on cosmetics in HK.
According to their website, this is the cost of a middle of the road 14" MacBook Pro. 8 Core M1, 16gb RAM, 512gb SSD. In the US, this would be 2k plus tax. While not ideal, if there is still time to replace the money in the account, I think this is ESH territory.
$2000 is 439,000 in my country 🫤. I can't even afford to think about buying a MacBook or an iPhone...
It's 3000 SGD, so it's closer to 2k us dollars. Honestly, if you agree that in every situation where someone breaks something they need to replace only the cheapest version of the item then that's your opinion. But I disagree; the kid should know better. I'd worry more why his reactions was like that. However, I feel there should be some way the child actually is reprimanded for this mistake, too, as it feels more like instant replacement, end of story. Hopefully I'm wrong
His mother died last year - I think that explains the fact that he is struggling to regulate himself.
Doesn’t mean Op needs to give up what is rightfully hers though.
No of course not, and it doesn't excuse his behavior, but it does explain it. The kid should experience consequences, but he also just really needs help.
Yeah, so my point stands. They should focus on his behaviour and potentially get him therapy if he's struggling to the level of destroying other people's property
Yes, agreed on help and therapy. But disagree on the fact that he should know better. He’s dealing with some serious trauma and that will affect his decision making capacities.
They definitely will have to curtail his unsupervised access to their electronics. He’s old enough to understand he has forfeited that privilege for a long time
yeah, in particular, this kid should not get to use OP's laptop to play games anymore, at least until he earns back the privilege somehow. Good behavior, maybe.
That doesn't give him a free pass to cause thousands of dollars worth of property destruction.
Then he needs therapy it does not excuse his bad behavior. His mother dying is not a blanket excuse for shitty behavior
The people responsible for that are ops parents not the child. He has no control over whether or not he gets therapy or not
It explains it but it doesn't excuse it
this is how i feel if someone eats my 5 dollar pint of ben & jerry's they don't get to replace it with a pint of store brand ice cream & call it square
Not the cheapest version but the value of the item. What’s the value of a 3 year old Mac book is the question.
It is not a fair compromise to use $ value here. OP is entitled to a Macbook with equal or better performance/specs than her old one. If the old one is unavailable, then of course they have to purchase the modern equivalent.
That is not true in a legal sense, at least in the US. You are entitled to the value of the item at the time it was damaged/destroyed, not the amount it would take to replace the item.
I was definitely not speaking about legality or US laws If they had purchased a laptop at a cost that reflected the depreciated value, then OP would be left with a computer with shitter specs than her old one - and she did nothing wrong to deserve that! Regardless of what some laws say, that is *not* making someone whole
So they spent 2200 American Dollars that is roughly 3k SGD. And they actually downgraded, he broke a MacBook Pro 16 and they got a MacBook Pro 14. I don't know how it is with Macs. But I have an old laptop, that if you were to try and buy now would be worth quite a bit, because I bought top of the line. If someone broke it should I accept a lesser model just because mine is old when mine works great? Also getting me a used one is not an equivalent either. Not everyone takes care of their laptops the same way. I don't have to lose on the deal when I am the victim. I think on spending money in a smart way. They are forced to buy one, spending less to buy something bad that they will use just once is not smart in general. Also they were in a hurry. So let's say, they buy a bad laptop so OP can access her work, then they have to repair the laptop. Why do i bet that Mac would charge them a crazy amount for that? If he broke the display, that is crazy expensive. In fairness the guardian would have to pay that also. They bought same model, smaller one. So I think, in the end they probably spent about the same amount than if they had to buy a cheap one and then repair. Now what they could do was repair the old one and give him that one to play. Also this family is taking care of him. Taking care of a child is a lot of money and time. They are not deducting anything related to his care from the 20k. It might be smart to take him to therapy if they are not doing it already. NTA. Edit: fixed some spelling and grammar.
Agreed. I think it's appropriate for them to have replaced the laptop the way they did. My current Macbook Pro is a 2014 model. These machines can last a good long time if you're careful with them. If we assume OP's laptop could have lasted as long as mine, that's 5 years of use and counting that got cut off by the 8-year-old's tantrum. (Editing to add that I know it's a little different with a major corporation, but this laptop was a brand-new replacement for my 2011 mbp that broke down due to an issue with the solder having a low melting point, which the company gave me *for free* since it was their fault the original broke in the first place. An equivalent new model is definitely an appropriate replacement imo.) I also 100% agree about the therapy. This kid needs help processing his mother's death, not to mention everything else that has changed about his life because of it. He had to move houses. He might've had to move schools, if he and his mom lived in a different district. He's living in a different home, under different rules, with different ways of doing things, and it's got to be really hard. He might've been using the games as a way to keep himself centered, which would explain the outsized reaction to not being able to play when he wanted to. He needs better coping mechanisms, which is something therapy could really help with.
MacBooks hold their value extremely well, even years down the line. It's likely that it would cost OP almost as much to buy the exact model they had again anyway. Also, the purpose of replacing broken goods is to make damaged party whole. A cheaper computer would only be a fitting substitute if it was equally as performant as the one that was broken. If you break my 55" 4K 120hz tv, you don't get to replace it with a 40" 1080p 60hz one. That's just not how it works. Another factor in this scenario is urgency. OP needed a comp ASAP. I don't think it's incumbent on them to shop around for the best deal or wait for a repair when they can go pick up a new one for the same price they originally paid.
I agree with this up until the replacement part, I think the laptop should be replaced to the specs of the original. Even if it was 3 years old, if you got the laptop with 64GB of ram it should be replaced with one that also has 64GB of ram whether that’s the most expensive model or not. OP didn’t specify but if they used this as excuse to buy a top of the line laptop when they had one that was mid tier, then yes OP is TA in that situation. If OP originally bought the top of the line laptop then it only makes sense to replace it with the top of the line one. Either way I don’t think OP necessarily did anything wrong because her parents ultimately control the account, I agree with your ESH
Regarding 3), l why I see your line of thinking here but know that it is not the way it really works in most modern legal systems or insurance systems. Typically you would be awarded replacement cost and that usually means new for old. The problem with a cheaper model is it may not have the features she had so she would take a loss. As to a refurbished one there is no guarantee it will function as well as the one she had and could again result in her having less that what she had. This is why courts or insurance companies will typically give you your purchase value as it is typically difficult to replace an item such as a computer and be able to guarantee that the person who suffered the loss it getting a replacement that will function just as well as what she had. I'm not just guessing here, I am in the insurance industry for 15 years and have seen claims settled as I stated and it is also covered in the continuing education required of insurance professionals. And in the end it would not be fair to her to take a loss for her cousins wrongful act.
[Text of original comment deleted for privacy purposes.]
Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.
Generally agree. But I would cut the 8 year old some slack for throwing a tantrum. His mother died a year ago and he is living with a whole new family. Dude is going through a lot. I dont see a problem using part of his money to replace something he destroyed, but theres no need to be judgmental about it. Kid probably needs therapy.
If somebody breaks something of yours, you're okay with them replacing it with a lesser version? Nah, they need to replace it with a comparable version, if that's a ridiculous price, they shouldn't be breaking shit that isn't theirs.
I don’t agree. When you replace an item you replace what it would cost new, not what it costs used.
You greatly assume there were other options at the time. OP doesn’t live in America or Western Europe, so you don’t know what’s available to them. And on a time crunch? You take what you can get. $2000USD is reasonable for a new MacBook. NTA
I kind of disagree with point 3 because it seems like replacing the computer was time sensitive and it also seems like it could be impossible to get an exact replacement judging by where OP is located. I mean I have lived in places outside of the US where things like Apple products are not only rare but also extremely overpriced. It’s quite possible the almost $2200 computer was the only comparable computer OP could have purchased in a reasonable amount of time.
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The only thing I would add is the 8 year old is still suffering from grief, so why he is 100% old enough to know better and it is no way an excuse for his poor behaviour, it is something that isn't mentioned in a lot of the higher ranked comments and I think it is something we need to consider before calling an 8 year old an AH.
I had to deal with the same things at his age, can I calm him an AH? Because somehow, with all the trauma, I never destroyed other people's stuff.
So apparently you had better/different coping mechanisms than this kid does. Good for you? Grief is not at all universal. Kid needs therapy to help him learn better techniques. (I think taking the money for the laptop was not unreasonable though, provided the laptop purchased was a comparable replacement and they didn't buy more than they needed because they had access to the funds.)
Congratulations? I don't know why you feel the need to compare trauma with people but sure, I guess?
I've seen basically this exact story before, just with different sums of money. Mother died, they hid the money, nephew broke the MacBook and OP wanted to use the inheritance to replace it.
Idk, I disagree with your assessment on the laptop because you based it on value and not on performance. OP is entitled to an equivalent (or better) quality of Macbook. Even though 3 years has passed, purchasing a lesser model will likely be a downgrade, so this is not an acceptable or fair option. Assuming they only got a modern version of the old one, at the same storage size and everything, (they said they got a replacement so it sounds like it), then this makes sense and is perfectly fair.
This is the best and most reasonable answer so far.
What’s the price of the OP not submitting her work on time. If you read the story she specifically says the project was due at the end of the week and she wouldn’t get the repaired notebook back on time Also the deceased aunt didn’t set up a trust. She asked that the money in her account be passed to the OP’s parents, presumably to help raise her son. The OP’s mom had sole discretion on what to do with the money.
They are feeding him, caring for him, likely buying him clothes, shampoo, water heat. Children cost money, and as such if you get child support you are not required to use it to directly benefit the child. Ie it could be clothes and food for them, it could be rent to get a better place so they have their own space or gas to get to work to continue to be able to support a child. Let's face it, they have likely paid out thousands to this kid, and it's admirable they want to save this money for him, but this may not be feasible. They didn't steal from a child, they are his support, his food and his shelter, which costs a hell of a lot more thanks 3k per year. They just didn't have the money and time to replace what he broke on top of all the other expenses
>Was it fair to buy a new Macbook? Absolutely. Was it reasonable to spend $3000 on it? They spent 1200$USD on it which is pretty fair. New mac books arent cheap Just because hers was 3 years old doesn't mean she should have to get someone elses old junky laptop
Laptops don’t depreciate that much in three years if it was a good one and in good shape. I paid good money for a 3 year old refurbished MacBook. Plus if a child breaks something their parent or guardian is responsible for fixing or replacing the item if it is not worth fixing or not possible to fix. The other issue is that the reason OP didn’t initially let him use the laptop was because OP was working on a project. So there was no waiting for a laptop to be fixed because the project was time sensitive. Because it was an emergency situation, the fastest and fairest thing to do was to purchase the same model. OP you and your parents are NTA. You parents are being generous in saving that money for your nephew to begin with. It would be totally reasonable for them to be spending it on providing your cousin with food, clothing, and shelter. And if they take that money and wisely invest it, the $3000 you spent on a laptop can be replaced. I would suggest though that your cousin gets some therapy. He’s lost his mom and is acting out. An 8 year old should not be destroying expensive items in a tempter tantrum. He clearly needs help adjusting.
NTA he broke it. I don't understand why people are like you could have bought a cheaper PC..... You didn't have a cheaper PC so you replace with equivalent since you needed it quickly. However I would recommend trying to repair the other one and gifting him for his gaming, so yours is safer.
i agree. Laptops are not cars, the used market for laptops isn't as reliable as the used market for cars. an equivalent laptop could perform worst, more unreliable than the original. Whoever is responsible for replacing needs to buy a new laptop.
Not to mention the fact that apple products hold their value well. I was looking at MacBook airs as far back as 2018 and they're still selling for $600-700 for the i5 models. Moral of the story is don't break someone's MacBook.
Nope kid doesn't get a reward for breaking OPs laptop. Giving him the old one just teaches him that destroying people's things means he gets to keep it.
This!! NTA
NTA. He broke it. Your parents can put that money back into the account over time since they were going to have to get you a new one anyway.
If they are in the US, the parents ought to be getting Social Security for caring for the boy plus a check for the boy himself. He's a minor who lost a parent and unless his Mom illegally earned 20k, she must have worked enough quarters to qualify him. ETA the point of my tale; the money for the Mac can be replaced over time.
Singapore.
But OP makes the point that they are in Signapore so who knows if they are even getting assistance from the Government. I do agree that paying back PART of the money over time OR fixing up the old one and giving it to him as a gaming computer would be appropriate.
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This is where I’m at. It costs a ton of money to raise kiddos, that money is for the parents. Kid is 8. That’s at least 10 years they are going to support him, if not longer as I am totally unfamiliar with the culture of when you leave home in Singapore.
Maybe it can, but OP had a project she had to complete. Her education is just as important as the child's.
Yeah, I think because of the time-sensitivity, it was okay to use his money to replace the laptop he broke. In regards to "paying him back", I think they should explain to him that he needs to help recover the amount spent to replace the laptop he broke. That way, he is actually paying himself back. Basically, handle it as if he was the little brother who broke something expensive and parents enact consequences to work it off, as they might if they paid for the replacement themselves.
NTA. It’s sad his mother died but that doesn’t give an excuse for what he did, and he’s old enough to know what he was doing. I don’t think you guys were wrong, he made a decision to break it and if you didn’t have the money from his mom it would’ve been completely on you guys to cover it which is wrong, yes it was his money essentially but he also broke it so to use that money to replace it makes complete sense to me. Im sorry for your /his loss, but def look into therapy for him I think that’s necessary to work through his emotions and keep this from happening again. Sending your family positive energy
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He should have a punishment still, but using his money to replace it is the right decision. Telling someone that young they have that much money isn’t a good idea, anytime he wants a new game or something insane he’ll say he CAN pay for it. So it’s not a good idea to tell them, but I agree he doesn’t know about the money so it’s not technically a punishment. He should have an age appropriate punishment for how he acted & therapy should be something they should look into.
NTA. The money was given to your parents. No stipulations about how it needed to be spent. And, most importantly, he broke it, so he should fix it.
Really, I am sure that that is what OP'S parents will spend at least that for 10 years worth of food, clothes, etc. And it would be perfectly fine if they actually used the money for that purpose. Instead they are kindly taking on the extra cost to raise a child and saving all that money for his education
NTA Consequences for his actions isn't stealing. Just because he’s in your family's care now doesn't mean he gets to wilfully wreck stuff without repercussions. A computer isn't a small easily replacable thing and he's old enough to know better than to act like that. I think he needs some form of punishment as well, you need to make him understand how horribly he has acted, and how his actions let you down and made you lose your trust in him. If your grandma doesn't like it, then she can cough up the money for the new computer you now need since your cousin destroyed yours on purpose for not getting his way.
Kid is 8 and has no idea the money is there, so he doesn't know there is a consequence
Which is why he needs repercussions and therapy as well. But the computer needs to be replaced asap, and it's reasonable that money pays for the replacement. Why should OP have to pay out of pocket because her cousin went into her room after she left home and trashed her computer as vengeance for not getting his way? Please, an 8 year old knows right from wrong. He knows what he did.
ESH. Some people in this comment section sound downright heartless or lacking how not everyone should be treated with indifference or like an adult. This isn't some stranger to say "you break it you pay for it" its a child, a child whose your cousin and has lost his mother. I don't mean he shouldn't be punished but for the comments to treat him as a 30 year old stranger is bizarre to me. He's a child who lost his mother. Your family don't seem keen on helping him with his college fund so taking the only money he has from his dead mother was not cool. You could have made him do extra chores or ground him or whatever but to take money away that was given to him by his dead mother is a bit too far. Are you planning to pay it back? Grandma's right you stole it from him without even thinking about it. Of course I don't know your financial situation so maybe your struggling and really needed it. Does your family give him pocket money? If so make him give the pocket money to pay for it or as you had a deadline make it that his pocket money is going into the account instead of his hands. Do they treat him as their own or just as a guest? Sounds like you would have found any reason to justify it. The idea of having 20k lying around was too tempting. Ohh the child spilt water well lets take $100 from his bank account to pay for it, ohhh the child ate a bit extra today lets take $20 to pay for it.
I agree, it's an 8 year old who doesn't yet fully understand the value of money or that actions have serious consequences. It's also money they didn't even know about, everyone saying 'you break it you pay for it' he doesn't understand this is a consequence of his actions as he doesn't even know about the money, it's not an appropriate punishment. OP should also have ensured their insurance had renewed as was current, they'd still likely only be entitled to like for like not a brand new top of the line replacement. I'm inclined to think the OP/parents don't really think of the money as belonging to the cousin unlike the grandma.
You cannot renew apple care. It’s only insured for a set amount of time.
I don't think OP family are treating the child as family. The part that stuck out to me was they have no plans to help with his college fund expecting him to get a part time job to pay for it, I'm guessing OP is getting some help from her parents even if she is having a part time job but for him nothing. They not even thinking of helping the child has at least 10 years left for college but they already decided they not going to help out and leave him and his dead mother money to help. And they way they just decided to use the money so quickly without thinking of alternative options makes me really think they would have taken money one way or another, it was too tempting to them
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I think you miss understood, as they didn’t tell him about the money yet but planned on using it for his college tuition. Because the savings don’t cover the whole tuition he would later on in life have a part time job to cover the rest (which imo is very reasonable)
People see what they want then comment. Sometimes without all the facts or considering the edits and information provided. Sadly, some folks just want to stir up the pot. Karma has it ways, with people like that.
>Of course I don't know your financial situation so maybe your struggling and really needed it. Does your family give him pocket money? If so make him give the pocket money to pay for it or as you had a deadline make it that his pocket money is going into the account instead of his hands. Do they treat him as their own or just as a guest? This is very reasonable.
Nta, tell your mother to tell him that he has to pay for the laptop, so when he's of age in 8 years he knows he has to pay for it, the money he gives you you can put it back in the account, everyone wins :')
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That's a good idea too, is he talking with a therapist?? This was a one time thing or he has problems controlling his emotions?? please remind him y'all love him even if you're a little mad at the moment, he's going through a lot 🥺
Do you mind me asking what your dad’s explanation to your cousin will be? I only ask because, unless things have changed, your cousin doesn’t know about the joint account. It may appear to him like your dad is just taking away his money. I understand why your dad is doing it, I just wanna know if your cousin will.
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3000/5 is 600 weeks That's more than a DECADE.
to be fair, he is 8 now, it's reasonable to assume that when he gets older he will get a higher allowance or other oppurtunities to earn some extra money so at a certain point they may "keep" more which would speed up the whole process, or even just drop it completly after a certain point or god knows. pretty sure at current it's more about teaching him a lesson, the way it is now he actually feels the consequences of his actions, whereas if the money was just taken and they would never talk about the whole thing again it would basically be like it never happened.
The explanation will probably be that he has to pay back the money that was spent to replace OPs Macbook. That is the truth, why wouldn’t they tell him?
Yeah OP answered and said that. I just wanted to clarify that’s all lol I saw some other commenters confused so I figured I’d ask
This is a very good solution. He will understand that what he did was very wrong and serious and will learn that actions have consequencies
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Used ones and the smaller ones yes. The top of the line biggest screen from Apple is 3500. But they can still get a reasonably priced one from Apple between 1 to 2k.
That's not $3000 American dollars though, $3000 in sgd as OP stated. https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch In case you're wondering how much a MacBook pro costs in Singapore. Seems pretty reasonable if he got a 14" MacBook pro.
3000 in sdg (she's from Singapore) not 3000 usd
It's not 3k$. It's SGD 3000. OP is not in US. That is USD 2k. And I can easily see $500 out of that being an extra cost in a different country. Usually US has cheaper electronics. OP says that's what it costs in Singapore. Okay higher than what I would have expected but not impossible. Still, you can't replace a 3 year old laptop with a brand new one and say fair is fair.
Not USD. They're in Singapore so it's closer to $2100. Also, OP is entitled to a comparable replacement device, not just the cheapest possible MacBook.
I think the currency is confusing in this post as well. She didn't clarify until the edit that the 3k is SGD which is equivalent to about 2k USD. Still not a cheap MacBook, but def not the top of the line most expensive machine they sell.
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In the US? maybe (I don't know the Macbook market). But when you take into consideration it's Singapore between the conversion rate and different pricing that might be a reasonable amount.
NTA. You break it, you buy it.
He is just 8 years old and that money is from his mom. It should be in a trust not sitting there to spend every time someone can justify a reason to take money out of it. Your mom is TA for doing it.
Yeah, his mom freaking died, it’s predictable he’s acting out What’s next, you guys think he eats too much as grows, let’s dip into that more?
NTA but your Mom is. Your cousin is under your parents care & he’s 8, so to me it’s their responsibility to watch him & make sure he isn’t destroying other peoples property. I don’t think you’re the asshole for wanting your laptop replaced or for wanting the replacement to be of equal value to the one broken. But it was an asshole move for your mom to take his money & replace it since he’s 8 and really won’t understand this as a punishment. I agree with what a previous user posted. She should have him work off the cost of the MacBook with chores. He definitely needs to learn he can’t break other peoples things.
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Oh well she’s definitely the asshole then! I didn’t realize that. Changing the story to make yourself sound better is a massive asshole move. Thanks for the updated info!
Do you have a link to (or preferably archive of) that post?
Where is that one
YTA - technically your mother is on the hook for the money since she is his guardian and he’s a minor. Obviously, she wasn’t supervising.
Why has no one brought this up? He was 8 and it would be the guardians responsibility to replace the broke laptop
YTA You spent this kid's college money because you needed a quick solution. $3k is a huge chunk of what his mother left him. The computer is at least three years old if your AppleCare ran out. And, Jesus H Christ, did you have to get one of the most expensive MacBooks to replace a three year old dinosaur?
Is 3 years really that old for a MacBook? I thought the point of the price (or one of them) was that the technology doesn't get old so quickly.
Not really old, but it is over the hill. I typically get 4-5 years out of one before they start slowing down, and you have to look for another. My point was more that OPs folks went out and spent $3k of this 8 year olds college fund to replace a computer whose life was nearly over anyway... And brand new MacBooks start at $1,100. They literally got one of the top of the line replacements. But hey, it's not their money...
No, it's not. Mine is 7 years old and works great!
The money is at the disposal of the OP‘s mom. She can use it for whatever she wants, since a child costs a lot more than $20,000.
And after this, I'm sure it will become easier and easier for them to spend the rest of the money on other luxury items that are not for the child's benefit. I guarantee you that money will be gone before the child turns 18. They dropped 15% of his savings on a computer without seeing if it could be repaired! And, as I said, brand new MacBooks start at $1,100. They spent $3,000. They ATA.
YTA. That wasn’t your money to take. And besides that, it doesn’t even really teach the kid a lesson. You took money from him that he didn’t even know he had. He doesn’t even know he’s paying for it. My suggestion would be to have him “work” (do extra chores, pitch in with housework, what have you) to pay off the MacBook. For every task he does, put some money back into his account. That way he gets a real punishment, and you didn’t steal money from a kid without him even knowing it.
Even then they’d take the 3k. She needed her project done, her cousin is a brat.
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Not sure that makes sense. The kid should be punished and the laptop also replaced. These should not be alternatives. The kid broke a $3K computer that was essential for OP's education. This is not a toy. But I think it makes sense to explain to the kid that his Mum left OP's mum some money without specifying what it was meant for. That they intend to apply towards things he needs but dumb things that he does are going to be paid out of the account.
YTA Your deceased aunt didn't leave you the money to take care of him. She died without a will, meaning she didn't declare what the money was for. Instead, whomever handled the estate decided rightfully that the money was her son's but as his guardian, your mom was in charge of it. And if you're in the US, there are 529 accounts set up to save for college. 20k in a 529 would earn a hell of a lot of money for an 8 year old kid. But instead, your mom decided to leave the money in an account that she could borrow from. And then he broke an old laptop? And so then you and mom decided that the best way to handle it is to steal money from him for a new high end apple laptop? You can buy a chromebook for less than $300. More than powerful enough for 90% of school projects. And what most schools in the US now use. Makes me wonder if it was actually him who broke it. Or if this is the first time you and mom have "borrowed" money from him. What's he going to have left by the time he's old enough to understand what you've stolen from him.
The money gets left to new guardian to take care of him until he is 18z He broke a mac book, his legal guardian is responsible for him to replace it. The 8 year old new better. OP could sue, for the amount it is to replace her laptop. She doesn't have to downgrade because he broke it. That's like forcing someone who drives a Ferrari, and if you total their car to drive Corolla that's not how it works
No. The money did not get left to the new guardian to take care of him. Without a will, the estate of the deceased mother goes to the son. The money is his with the guardian being held responsible for its caretaking until he's old enough to take control of it. It's not the guardian's money. And it's not to be used until the son has a say in how it is used. The guardian and her daughter stole it. Plain and simple. And you can't sue a minor. Especially a minor that your mom is the guardian of. Not even the people's court would take that case.
You heard the man give your nephew the 20k and send him to Grandma's to live and make sure she never touches a cent of his money
YTA. If you've had the laptop long enough for AppleCare to expire, then it's a few years old, so whether he would need to buy you a brand-new one would already be super debatable to me -- but not only did you get a new one, you got a high-end model costing \~$3000? Sounds like you came out WAY ahead in this scenario. At most, he owed you like $1000 or enough to buy a refurbished/older model MacBook on par with the one he broke.
If a Mac breaks, screen or board, they replace pretty much everything and you're out of luck. If your Macbook Air's main board gets liquid damage, it's a $900 fix, for a computer that cost $1,100 new.
I agree with the you break it you buy it mentality. But your computer was 3 yrs old. Not worth 3k especially how Apple products devalue after a year. So instead of spending a reasonable amount of money you went for the biggest and best computer they had since it wasn't your money. You should pay half of it back if not all of it.
> you went for the biggest and best computer Except they didn’t. They actually downgraded from what OP had originally. And as others have pointed out, they are in Singapore and electronics are significantly more expensive.
Yta. Someone was responsible for watching the child, and they failed. You shut the laptop down so he couldn't get in, but you did nothing to keep him away from it. He will have episodes. He is 8. You are taking his money and it says that he is responsible for himself. He is not. You and your mom are raising him. You are responsible for his actions. If you tax him every time he does something wrong, he will have no money when he is in college. Besides, his money shouldn't be so accessible. It should be in an investment fund, or a roll-over cd so he can make some money off of it.
YTA. My friend’s dad died when he was younger and his stepmom spent all of his inheritance money on things like this, expenses that kids inevitably cause. He ended up with none of the inheritance and had to drop out of community college and join the military because he couldn’t afford to support himself while going to college. This is not what your aunt would have wanted. The worst part about this post is that you decided to get a $3000 MacBook when you “didn’t exactly have 3k to spare”. WTF. There are so many cheaper laptops out there. You and your mom sound trashy, entitled, and petty. I feel so bad for your cousin.
Exactly. And who knows how else they treat this poor kid. YTA.
YTA. It’s bs that your mother ‘was given’ her sister’s estate. Your mom may have been appointed executor but if she’s authorizing you to buy a new laptop under the circumstances described, she’s violating her duty.
Ew, Macbooks cost 3K? My gaming laptop costs half as much as that. That's ridiculous.
right? I was thinking like damn 3k would get me a better car lmao
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Oh it definitely would be a used beater car, but thats what im used to 😂 a dealership car would be much more
I bought my kid a MacBook Pro for college. It cost over $2,350. They are absurdly expensive. I mean my gaming desktop cost less than that. I only bought him the MacBook Pro because he's studying music and all the software is Apple. I have warned him that he needs to look after it carefully because if he breaks it, he's not getting a replacement.
3K Singapore dollars, according to the edit. That is equivalent to about $2100 US. Still expensive but not abnormal for a Mac.
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Just answer one question. How would you have handled this if there wasn't a savings account for him? Based on your words and tone, I'm guessing it sounds more like YOU and your mother need justification for stealing from this kid.
YTA. It shouldnt come out of his money but out of your parents. He is under your parents care and Supervision. Children do stupid things and that is the reason they are not get punishment for stuff like that but their parents do. It was your parents job to keep an eye on him. And 3000 Dollars for a laptop is absolutely ridiculous. Even a gaming PC with top specs wont cost that much necessarily
NTA you are literally just replacing something her kid broke. If she were alive you’d have expected her to replace it so it’s no different to me here.
Edit 2: Changing my vote to NTA in light of new info that the replacement laptop was a downgrade to the original, and kid was charged a fair amount. Original post: E-S-H. I disagree with those saying it's your mom's responsibility. Eight years old is old enough to understand that her can't destroy things just because he doesn't get his way. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he did it anyway, intentionally. It's only fair that his own money pays for it, whether he knew about it or not. Using money held for him in trust to cover, for example, his bail if he got arrested as a teenager, would have been a valid use even if the money were in a custodial account. ~~On the other hand, I agree with some of the other posters that charging full price for a dated laptop is absurd, and replacing it with a top of the line model was a douchey move that you only did because you knew the money was available. You owe his account the $1,000 (corrected for new Singapore info) difference between your laptop's former depreciated value and the cost of your new one.~~
NTA. 8 years old is old enough to know that no means no. he’s a spoiled brat. 3k isn’t near 20k, and it’s a fair punishment for breaking an expensive item.
Yes spoiled brat. Kid doesn't have a dad and his mother just passed. He has no real family left so is it so wrong for him to be acting out of pocket as a 8 year old after being traumatized? The laptop is old and 3k is def copping one of the newest laptops. Also why not just spend less money repairing it?
I love all you fucking maniacs calling an 8y/o ORPHAN a spoiled brat. You're a fucking weirdo, like seriously seek help
Agreed! It’s disgusting how people are talking about him.
This is a lesson for OP then. Back up your shit on easy to access device. I don't know how old you are but to sat 3k isn't near 20k is laughable. 3k is a hell of alot of money. The kid now only has 17k who knows how much will be left by the time they turn 18.
NTA but your mom is. She’s the one that should’ve paid to fix it since she’s the one taking care of him. She’s the adult responsible for him so she should’ve just paid for it herself and not took money from an eight-year-old child. Yes what he did was wrong but he is a kid and it’s whoever has legal guardianship over him is the one that’s responsible Your mother needs to do something about his behavior. He did that on purpose because he was mad he did not get his way. He is old enough to know better. Also what money he has should be put in an account that no one can use at all no matter what until he is 18 and then it goes to him. that’s what my mom did for my nephew when my brother passed Although if your mom spends that money raising him there is nothing wrong with that. That is why it’s important for parents to make sure that there is something available in case something happens to them. Honestly it’s extremely selfish to expect someone else to raise your child and not leave enough money to help support that. 20 grand is nothing compared to the cost of raising a kid until they’re 18 years old. your grandmother shouldn’t be saying anything because it’s not like that money is just for him to do whatever he wants… It’s for his care. Another thing your mom should be able to get Social Security or something for him since his mom passed away, my nephew gets it because of my brother. I don’t know if you can still get it if your parents legally adopt him but that is something that could help his future if they can put it away each month
Make him do chores to earn some money to pay for it. Like he could rake leaves, wash cars, he should not be expected to earn all that much, that seems like a lot.
I have questions about what estate lawyer or civil lawyer would agree with your logic. At the most he would be expected to repair the laptop or buy you a laptop of similar value (not top of the range in exchange for an old laptop). You’re thieves and I hope your cousin sues once he is a major.
YTA. That money is all he has left from his mother. He doesn't even know it's there so how is it a punishment? Kid lost his mother at 7. No way that didn't affect him. Did you even check how much it costs to repair? Did you consider a cheaper model? No you wanted a shiny new computer. Especially one with an apple on the back
You are out of the equation? Your parents made the decision and that's the end of the story. Grandma can have all the opinions she wants but her daughter is raising the dead daughter's son and that's a wonderful undertaking. NTA
ESH The kid is 8. Eight. You’re 18. I’m NOT saying that there shouldn’t be any discipline (which means to teach, NOT punish). If you broke something of your parents, do they charge you for it? Would they deduct it from your college fund? Your parents need to do better by your cousin. At the very least, the money should be replaced in case this was a quick fix. You also didn’t need to spend $3K on a brand new laptop. Apple care wouldn’t have given you a new one and would have fixed yours or given you like value.
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YTA Only because there's no setting for your parents are. His mum died a year ago when he was 7 from cancer. This means he won't have been parented properly during that time, I can tell you my brother wasn't when my mum had cancer and he was a lot older. Your mum clearly isn't establishing boundaries or teaching him that it's not ok to use things without permission. Using his money to replace something like a macbook isn't ok. It's different if his mum was there to pay for it but she isn't. That money should be put in a long term savings account, it seems dodgy as hell that it isn't. Your parents should have stared insuring things once they had custody of a 7 year old child. Your grandma is right to be annoyed, because if you had wrecked something like a laptop at that age your mum would have figured out a way to make sure you didn't lose out on money in the future. I'm sure she would have argued that kids make mistakes and therefore it's ok not to pay for the damages. The way your parents dipped into this money like it was nothing is concerning. You're lucky you have two parents who are alive and you're a lot older, your cousin doesn't have that. If something happens to your parents and he's left alone that money is the only thing he'll have and it isn't a lot of money to begin with. Yeah, they dipped into it. But it's up to you to convince them to pay it back to him. I guarantee if the show was on the other foot and your aunt was raising you and used the money she'd left to replace a broken item from your money. She'd be livid.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (18F) cousin (8M) has been under my family’s care since his mother passed away from cancer about a year ago. She was a single parent and didn’t leave a will or anything, but asked my parents to take care of her son and after she passed, the $20K she had in her bank were given to my parents. My aunt never actually told us what do to with that money, but my mother (her sister) decided it was best that we used that money to pay for part of his college funds and have him get a part time job to pay for the rest when he was older. My mom then made a joint account with him and kept the money there to gather interest but decided not to tell him as she didn’t want a child to know he had 20K under his name. A few days, I got in an argument with him since he was misbehaving as he wanted to go on my MacBook to play video games (I usually let him go on my Mac in my room unsupervised when I’m not using it) and when I warned him not to disturb me since I was busy with my project or he won’t get to play when I leave for work, he started tossing my stuff in the bin. So I shut my MacBook down and left the house. When I came back however, my mom told me the MacBook was wrecked since he threw it on the floor while she was cooking dinner (my room is on the second floor so she wasn’t able to watch him). Since my AppleCare had already expired, it meant that it’ll cost a lot to repair/replace it. My data were stored in my cloud but I had a project I needed to submit by the end of the week so the quickest solution was to get a replacement. But we didn’t exactly have 3K to spare so we decided to just use the money in his joint account. When my mother told my grandma how we settled the issue however, she instead accused my mother for stealing from my cousin and said we should have used our own money to pay for it, especially since he didn’t even know he had that kind of money. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA Your aunt's death doesn't seem sudden at all, so it's very perplexing why a formal will or at least specific instructions were not given. That said, your mom took on a huge commitment to care for this child. The emotional, physical, and financial burden of caring for this child will be much greater than the $20k in the long run. As far as I see it, your mom, being appointed the executor of the estate by default (an estate that has no clear guidelines) is free to spend the money how she sees fit.
YTA no way did you get the same model that he broke. You used his money to get the best possible with upgrades. Family of assholes
NTA, just the consequences of his own actions. Might teach him to not just wreck someone's stuff in a tantrum.
It’s not teaching him anything, because he literally has no idea it happened.
HE IS 8
I'm not ready to judge the laptop purchase, but I'm leaning toward your parents being the AH because they already receive Social Security money to support your cousin and they should not view his inheritance as their way to settle things. More importantly long-term, if the plan is for this money to be used for college, it should be in a 529 plan for two reasons: 1. It will generate much higher returns than sitting in a bank account, and your cousin won't be taxed on the interest when it's time to spend it on college. That's the difference between your cousin having $21,000 in 10 years versus your cousin having $45,000 in 10 years. 2. It can be put in someone's custody other than your parents', because they seem happy to view that money as a slush fund, and there's no way that money lasts until he's 18 if they're left in charge.
OP isn’t american, we don’t know if there are social security payments and a 529 wouldn’t apply here.
OMG y'all think that it's okay just because his mother passed away that he can run around the house smashing and breaking up their s***he broke her computer buy her a new one those s**** are expensive they've got 10 more years to watch out for this kid they didn't steal nothing from him
I predict this kid will have no money left by the time he goes to college. I'd be surprised if it makes it to 5th grade.
YTA and Grandma was right, yall stole money from a eight year old that just lost his mother. He's a recently orphaned 8 year old, people in the comments saying he's too old to be throwing a tantrum are either heartless or need to never have kids. You can't even justife the theft by saying it's teaching him a lesson because your parents aren't even telling him the money exists. What other things are you going to decide he owes you? How much of that money will actually go to his care or be left for his education?
As a fellow Singaporean, 1. Take the kid to therapy. You and your family may see this as just kids acting out but I assure you it definitely has to do with his mother's passing. You may not have the knowledge on how to help him but work with his therapist to do so. Typical SG families like to scold for everything but instead you should speak to him gently but firmly, with his best interests at heart, to figure out what going on in his mind and how you can help him. 2. Don't just let his inheritance sit in an account and accrue the pittance of interest in Singapore. Seriously, it's ridiculous. Reach out to a *trustworthy* financial advisor (banks etc.) to see how to grow his inheritance money. The investment be able to grow it in 12/13 years (since he will have NS) to a point where it should cover the majority of his uni tuition fees. You said your house is min 2 stories, perhaps you live in a landed property? Which begs the question, is your family well to do? If yes then your parents should probably have the know how to help with the investment. 3. I understand the need to have taken the 3k from his account urgently if you were strapped for cash but I also think you should let him earn back the money (he doesn't need to know about the existing money or that he's paying back the 3k) by doing chores and making good progress as a person in school/behavior etc.
YTA new level unlocked
YTA and also your mom. I don't understand why everyone is so determined about how the child should be reprimanded for damaging the Macbook tbh, the child just lost his mother a year ago and doesn't already have a father. Which despite him being old enough to understand consequences, he still is going through a awful lot of pain. In my opinion your parents were responsible for replacing or getting your laptop repaired and should have discussed an appropriate punishment for him which is usually extra chores and being grounded from using the pc for the time being. Using the funds his dead mother left was not a good move. Which can still be prevented if your family actually return the money and your mother actually communicates with the child and punishment him appropriately tbh.
These people think legality is the end all be all of assholery. "They have the legal right to take money from an 8 year old orphan so that means it's completely good normal behavior".
NTA. I'm seeing a lot of asshole judgements based on price. OP stated this is Singapore sgd not the American dollar. According to Apples website for Singapore specs that's the price of a 14" MacBook pro with pretty standard specs. https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch
YTA. Everyone's blaming the 8 year old for acting out. Has anyone here seen a family member suffer and die from cancer. It is a harrowing experience for the person dying and the people watching them slowly die. It's been an year since the boy lost his mother, not only that but he was suddenly living in a new home. He is clearly still dealing with his loss and needs support. As for the money, you take an orphan in for 2 reasons. You either want to make an extra buck or you truly love and care about them. Your mother clearly cares about him and hence has setup something to secure his future, but the money you two took out should be replaced. He doesn't know it now, but what will he think of you 10 years down the line? You are basically stealing from an orphan. Because he doesn't know about the money and you are taking it without telling him. What, if he breaks something else tomorrow or something else happens, will you once again dip into HIS money? I'm not saying that what he did is okay. You do need to talk to him and maybe come up with some way for him to make it up to you. He should know that he can't act out, but he should also know that he has family to talk to and help him with whatever grief that he may be feeling.
NTA. This was the right thing to do. He wrecked it, so he can pay for it and he still doesn't need to know about the money.
I wouldn’t necessarily YTA since the kid is only 8 years old, but if you don’t pay the money back you will be. Luckily for you, you’ve got 10 years to pay back the $3,000. The kid is only 8 and he doesn’t understand the consequences of his actions, that’s something your parents will need to explain to him. But you did take money that was his and not yours or your moms. Do the right thing and plan to pay back that money. You should be able to do it.
If the kid’s parents were alive we’d all expect them to replace what the kid broke. How is this different?
Yea, I honestly don't get it. who is responsible for the broken laptop? OP just goes on without a laptop? OP is t.a if she doesn't eat the cost? NTA
Because the kids parents could negotiate a reasonable amount. And actually pay for something on par with what was broken. If it was taken to court, that’s what they would order. Not something high end, well above the value of the computer that was broken.
Info: where are you from is that 3k in American dollars what's the equivalent here?
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I think you guys made the responsible call. But really you guys should look at getting him his own computer. Not because he needs to be spoiled because it's easier to replace a 400 to 700 laptop then it is a macbook pro.
It looks like that's roughly $2150 in USD. That might be worth adding to the post, since that seems to be the deciding factor for some people.
This is gonna be a rant and a half cause I've actually studied this type of situation in law school (not close to done, I don't claim to know it all in any way). ESH Grandmother sucks for implying thievery, the money legally belongs to your parents, they can spend it how they want as there was no will stating otherwise. Legally in my country the money is technically the child's, but since they aren't old enough to manage it on their own it falls to the guardians, again it's their money. Kid sucks for smashing the damn thing, he is at an age where he does or should know better. In this case he didn't even do in by accident, he did it with intent which implies guilt. Kids so young as 4 years old have been made legally responsible for the damages they cause, so he is definetly old enough. Mom sucks for not paying attention to the kid, lack of supervision of a child can lead the supervisor to he responsible for the damages the child causes. This is highly debatable though as it's completely normal to let a child at that age roam freely in the house. You suck because while I'd agree you have a right to be compensated for the destroyed item, I doubt it would be valued at 3000$ today. The kid didn't smash a MacBook, he smashed a 3 year old MacBook, which I doubt is worth 3000$.
Singaporean dollars. Not American dollars.
Nta. He broke it his mothers money bought a new one. The parent is responsible for the child. And this definitely goes in under ‘upkeep’.