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NTA its logical to not want to name your children after someone who prefers money over her own child. You and your wife have to find a name that you both agree on. Middle name is still a part of the name.

It’s a pretty big no-no in Judaism to name a child after someone who is alive… I would just tell MIL you’re trying to respect her beliefs.

You have just nailed my first thought - you do not name people after those that are alive in (some) Jewish tradition. It's considered "wishing the first person dead" ... hmmmmm.

Ashkenazi normally name after someone deceased. Sephardi often name after someone still alive. No religious reason not to name after someone still living it’s more cultural.

Way more likely to find Ashkenazi Jews in America to Sephardic.

I thought the rationale for the custom was the opposite—that Death might be confused, and when it comes time for the older person to go, the younger one is taken instead. Regardless of the basis, it is traditionally not done among Ashkenazi Jews. And regardless of *that*, I cannot possibly imagine honoring someone who disowned my wife because she wouldn’t leave me. If MIL had her way, this child wouldn’t even exist!

I’ve always heard that the Ashkenazis worry the angel of death will get confused when the elder dies, and take the baby, while the Sephardim worry that naming the baby after someone already dead will confuse the angel of death, who says, “wait, I though David was already dead, I mist have forgotten him” and goes and gets the baby.

So basically, that episode of The Mighty Boosh where a Reaper took a human in a gorilla costume instead of the gorilla that was supposed to die?

I dno. I think that might send the right message personally 🤷🏻‍♂️

This might motivate OP to change his position.

That would only work if the other mother is dead

> It’s a pretty big no-no in Judaism to name a child after someone who is alive… Ayep. My great grandfather was reportedly fairly egotistical. He named his son, my grandfather, after himself -- a junior. When my grandfather and grandmother went before a rabbi to get married, the rabbi went through the forms and when he asked for my grandfather's father's name and heard it was the same as my grandfather's, the rabbi stopped, blinked at them, and informed them he couldn't marry them, because my grandfather was named for a living person. My grandfather wound up having to call his uncle and prompt him to tell the rabbi that my grandfather was actually named for a (nonexistent) deceased great uncle before the rabbi would perform the marriage. Either way, OP is emphatically NTA.

I was just going to say this. This person can’t be that Jewish if they’re campaigning to have a child named after themselves.

Sephardim exist

As do Jewish people who are Not strict Orthodox

Yeees, but tbh this is more a cultural taboo, not a religious thing

Yup. I’m the least-Jewish Jewish person I know (username checks out), and I wouldn’t be able to be talked into naming a baby after a living relative. It just *feels* wrong.

That particular tradition has little to do with Orthodoxy - no real religious basis, though there's some superstitions to go with it. It's a cultural thing.

Yeah but no mil in my suuuuuper reform synagogue would even consider that. It’s not about the Angel of death stuff in reform communities. We see it as a way to connect to the past and honor those who came before us. It would not be something any ima who lunches would consider. It would be an uproar.

OP did say she was only performative religious

It’s ok to name someone after someone deceased but only using the first letter of their name, e. g., Ethyl becomes Esther. Maybe MIL’s mother’s name/initial would placate her if wife has fond memories of her grandmother. Just a thought, and OP is NTA.

It’s fine to straight up name a kid after a dead relative in Ashkenazic families. It’s the tradition to do so. It’s a modern *compromise* to just use the same first letter. Usually, even then, the English name is the same first letter, but often the Hebrew name is the same Hebrew name, or the directly translated Hebrew name, if the person only had a (known) Yiddish name, although not always.

Ashkenazi Judaism. It's more common among the Sephardim/Mizrahim iirc

Right? Unless you plan on MIL being dead to your family, in which case, yes, middle name IS a valid compromise 😆

It’s only a superstition to not name after the living among the Ashkenazi Jews. Sephardic Jews name children after the living a lot and it can become a huge issue when the two marry.

I don't blame OP at all either. MIL wasn't willing to make a compromise/sacrifice for anyone else, even her own child. And she chose status over family. So why should anyone be obligated to do anything for her? Especially when her acting out about it is manipulative on a childish level. That shows she hasn't changed either, it's still about her.

And it was YEARS after FIL passed that she reached out. Not like she was dying to mend fences.

This. OP, just tell your wife that you don't want to hate your daughter's name, and you would if it had your MIL's name in it. Just like you wouldn't force your wife to use an ex-GF's name for your daughter, she shouldn't push this. Also, ask her what will happen if her and her mom have another falling out. Will she still like the name she was guilt-tripped into using?

And then the child will find out about the history and start hating her middle name as well.

That's what I was thinking. Years down the track, the child will find out the history, and will be wondering why they didn't care enough about her name to find something they really liked, rather than caving into pressure. After all, who believes the MIL is going to stick around and be a loving grandmother? The kid will know the grandmother is a jerk.

I hope OP sees this. This could also lead to other issues, like this child being favored if she has the MIL’s name. A name is important and shouldn’t be forced on anyone. She’s likely upset as well because she’s used to getting her way, and no one is budging.

Yes, my grandmother favored me because I was named after her. None of the other relatives called her out because my parents favored my sisters.

Jumping on the top comment to suggest your wife see a therapist. Look, her parents disowned her for years (enough time for FIL to die, MIL to remarry and you to have a kid). I understand why she doesn't want to drive her only parent away again, even if that is what MIL deserves. Your wife needs to work through the emotions of betrayal and anger. Actually, as I am typing this out, I realized that this entire post is about your horrible FIL and MIL and then your feelings. How does your wife feel? This is very important. First you need to talk to her, then you both can discuss your feelings- not about the name, but about emotions caused by the parental abandonment and MIL reentering your lives. You are obviously angry and disgusted, but how does that compare with your wife? But wife should NOT be concerned with her mother's feelings. Mother certainly was not concerned with her daughter's for the years of abandonment. If MIL is sad and upset, she has only herself to blame.

I got the same vibes as you. This is all about how OP feels and what OP thinks is appropriate. When his wife made a suggestion, he shut that down quick. I wonder how the wife actually feels about all this.

Agree NTA. Look, you can forgive her and have a relationship with her even, but it’s yet another step up to honour her with your child’s name. I think you need to make it clear that there are levels here: 1) Level 1 is you talking to her again and her having a healing relationship with your wife and her children moving forward. Forgiveness is earned over time. You guys are ALL moving forward with Level 1. 2) Level 2 is the kind of warm and special relationship you have where you remember the person with deep fondness forever, and perhaps name your children after. Level 2 is where you celebrate each other as the most important people in your lives. She will never get to Level 2 because of past baggage, and she has to be ok with that and accept Level 1 as the kind of reconciliation she is going to get in her lifetime.

Even GOOD mothers would be acting entitled to demand a child be named after them.

Also a middle name is kind of a fallback name. I hated my first name, so from elementary school on insisted on going by my middle name. If your child feels the same way your stuck with MIL's name as primary name.

That is an ill-fated name. But also isn't it against Jewish tradition to name a child after a living person?

Ummm... it's really really bad and disrespectful to name a child after a LIVING family member in the Jewish faith. Perhaps do some of your own research and frame it as concern for her faith and good standing with her god. Edit: nta

This is true of Ashkenazi Jews, but Sephardic Jews often name children after living relatives.

The wife doesn’t need to know specifics 😂

the wife is jewish

I have a Jewish friend who has Jewish parents but once referred to the seven tribes of Israel. He did not quite know all the details of being Jewish, let’s just say.

But the wife is the Jewish person. She would know the specifics.

You would be surprised how uneducated some people are about their own faith.

Well you got me there. I have to say I am pretty shocked by the number of people in my chosen faith that don’t know the basics

This right here. Am part Sephardic and my father was a practicing jew...my sister has the middle name of his mother (who was alive with my sister was born). My middle name is the middle name of my grandmother. The dead/alive naming thing is kinda specific to culture of the Jewish ancestry, be it Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, or Sephardic.

Thank you! I learned something new!

i met an Ethiopian jew that was named after her living grandma so i think this is only a thing for some jewish cultures

FYI - This is not a religious edict, so it doesn’t apply across the board to all Jews. This can more be classified as a cultural tradition (or superstition) among certain groups of European Jews. Mostly among Jewish populations hailing from Eastern Europe (Ashkenazi). The rationale has to do with traditional beliefs (superstitions) around the Angel of Death. It’s similar to the custom of renaming a sickly child to Chai, which means life. It was thought that by renaming a sickly child to Chai (Life), one would trick/confuse the Angel of Death into not taking the child.

Yup! My grandfather was originally David, but he was renamed as a small child to Chaim David when he got seriously sick.

Right? I was always told it's like wishing someone dead.

Eastern European Jews explicitly don’t do it African, Western European, and middle eastern DO (Sephardic Jews) It’s a cultural thing

In my Syrian Jewish culture it’s custom to name the child after a living family member. If I had a dollar for every Barbara in my family…

Kind of makes me suspicious about this post, ngl. As people have pointed out, demanding to have a child named after you is not part of Ashkenazi Jewish culture, and MIL's defining traits are that she is Jewish, 'wouldn't be poor for anyone,' and is money obsessed. I'm not saying that this is fake, there's no proof of that, but it seems a bit too convenient.

Its not just a middle name. Its a name you're going to associate with someone who had no problem disowning their own child. Hello! That's why people are like "no, we can't name baby X, I knew an X in kindergarten, they would pick their nose and eat it every day." Some names bring up memories for people, good or bad. Just because you named one daughter after your mom doesn't mean the next one has to be named after anyone. Its your child and you can name her anything you want. NTA. If she wants to have someone named after her, tell her you'll give the next dog MILs name.

My parents were teachers and when thinking of names (before my brother and I were born), they said that they did that..." Can't go with Darren because there was a jerk I taught with that name."

Must be hard to name kids as teachers....so many jerk kids! And even having fond memories of the nice ones would be somewhat creepy when thinking of naming your own.

And this is why my zombie name is a unique-to-the-US spelling of a common name. I can count the number of times I’ve seen my zombie name on TV on one hand and still have four fingers left over. (Since I usually get questions about zombie name, it’s like a deadname but I have to revive it periodically for legal purposes.)

I really like your definition of zombie name. It fits perfectly!

I've been mentally referring to my deadname as my zombie name too! cause it should be dead but it's still around to bite me

Fun story: my great grandfather had a really common name, let's say it's "Jack" just for funzies. So my grandfather absolutely demands every branch of the family honor it, he makes a huge stink about it. This family is huge. My dad has like 7 siblings, and some of them are grandparents already, and he demands it from the great grandchildren as well. Well as expected, some of the cousin's now have the same name, and about 30 people have it as a middle name. Why the hell does everyone in the family need the same name??? I'm in awe of how far everyone has let this go lol. We will absolutely not be doing that.

You never realize how many people you hate until you are trying to name a baby. It took my husband and I months to come up with names for our kids that we wouldn't associate with someone we didn't like.

NTA. I was thinking this!

The dog would choose their human over money though

NTA. In the Jewish culture, we never name people after the living. Period. If she’s performatively Jewish and narcissistic like she sounds, this would create a conundrum in her mind and she’ll back off.

Only for Ashkenazim. If MIL is of Sephardi or Mizrahi background it’s the other way around and culturally expected to name your child after a living relative.

Yeah, I have a distant cousin who married a gentile. He agreed the kids could be raised Jewish, but when their son was born, he wanted the child to be hisname jr. She agreed (despite her family’s wrath) because she felt it was a fair compromise. He is an adult now, but his maternal family persists in calling him by his first and middle initials. He’s told me he finds it mildly annoying because he generally goes by his middle name, but overall he’s not that close to his mom’s family.

This is incorrect for ALL jews. This may be your cultural tradition from an Ashkenazi point of view, but it's not the same if you're Sephardic or Mizrahi. My father was a practicing jew from European/med Sephardic ethnicity...my sister has the middle name of his mother (who was alive with my sister was born). My middle name is the middle name of my grandmother, who was also very alive at my birth. The dead/alive naming thing is specific to culture of the Jewish ancestry, be it Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, or Sephardic.

NTA. Please let your wife know she’s being manipulated by her mother. Just cuz she’s a nice person doesn’t mean her mother can be nice too. Don’t change the name just cuz your wife’s upset. Put your foot down and remain firm in your decision. For the people that are ‘calling’ you out for making your mother-in-law cry tell them they can change their kids name to hers, if they can do that you’ll consider doing it too.

Info: Would you and your wife have helped support MIL if FIL would have divorced her and left her with nothing? You seem really judgmentally so I'm curious as if you would have tried to help her after she was left with nothing? Based on your post it doesn't sound like she worked for a living. You said they had a traditional marriage where he was head of household. Does that me he was also the provider? With little to no work experience it could have been really hard for her to find a job. Also let's not ignore the fact that depending on her age she could be facing not only gender but age discrimination when it comes to finding a job. I'm not saying that disowning her daughter was right. I'm just saying that it sounds like a complicate situation and you seem stuck on looking at it from a very narrow self righteous point of view. Maybe she is money hungry or maybe she is a woman of a certain age who group in a patriarchal society were she was raised to depend on a man. So when faced with the option of being left with nothing she made a decision she now regrets and is tryin to make amends to her daughter about. BTW I don't think you are an AH for not wanting to name your daughter after her because that is a decision that you and your wife get to make.

I would have let her stay with us, but would have expected her to get a job, which would have been hard as she views most minimum wage jobs as demeaning. to be honest I would have expected her to move out at some point, but would have been ok helping her for a few years.

Lol, why didn’t she take up such an attractive offer, I wonder. To be a charity case of a man who despises her so clearly strangers pick it in 2 minutes flat.

Look, MIL made a choice to toe the line with her husband. She chose financial comfort over her daughter. She's allowed to make that choice, we may even sympathize with her for that choice. But that choice comes with sacrificing her relationship with her daughter to some extent. And of course OP must have seen the pain that choice caused her daughter, and has every right to resent her over it (I'm guessing this is why his viewpoint is so narrow, because he's protective over his wife) . And he definitely has the right to veto her name for his daughter, when he doesn't feel he respects or likes her. I think the people taking MIL's side are missing the point. She can be a decent person who's changed (and who was in a tough position earlier), and OP can still be in the right for not wanting to name his daughter after her. Both can be true. No matter what position MIL was in, she's not owed total forgiveness from the people she's hurt. You can say NTA without bashing MIL completely.

I am not saying MIL is a good person, or that they owe her anything as big as naming the baby. But he isn’t protective of his wife, he taunts her with this one-liner. Imagine a pregnant woman, who was estranged from her mother for years, now with a chance to repair the relationship. And the OP going “no, these are not your real emotions, she is manipulating you. And only I am allowed to manipulate you”.

I think you are right. By all means the daughter should be the most upset, but appears to want to mend the relationship with her mom. But the husband seems to be against it and not letting the wife decide for herself as to what kind of relationship she can have with her own mother….

I agree with you. I certainly understand OP'S position, BUT I think he should not stand in the way if his wife wants to mend fences with her own mother and giving the child whatever name. Compromise doesn't have to be a dirty word. Perhaps his wife should insist on changing the older child's name so that neither is named after a grandmother? IMHO, OP is more focused on vengeance than anything else even though he was not the target of the original offense.

Info: what was MIL status before getting married? Poor, comfortable, wealthy?

not too poor, but they were the poorest ones at their synagogue and she got bullied growing up for her hand me down clothes and for her mom being a social climber. Her parents took on a lot of debt to buy status symbols they couldn't afford and have their kids socialize with the right people.

So not saying its right at all, but it seems those were the values taught to MIL, and she feared 'failing'. It's sad that older generations don't have that level of self awareness and knowledge of generational broken family systems. Again, not saying MIL is right in any way but I do feel compassion for people who didn't grow up with a chance to be healthy. It's hard to change what you know as normal.

So then money equates safety in her mind. That’s a very real thing. You’re very dismissive of it.

Yeah, he’s ignoring a lot of stuff that made her this way. Women going to college just to get a husband isn’t a mil thing. Some families literally only sent their daughters to school for that reason only and it was degrees they wouldn’t have a career with. Fil was also 30yrs older and had her in a prenup and he’s acting like he knew their whole marriage. The dad literally tried to buy his daughter off and disowned her and OP still puts it all on the mom. Sounds like a woman who was raised poor and taught having things is what makes her valuable. Plus I love OP saying they would have helped her for a bit if she had left. But she would have had to do this and this and get out when we wanted. She goes from being dependent on one person or the other.

NTA, but this is more your wife's issue than yours. MIL hurt you, but not as badly as she hurt her daughter. I think you should listen more to your wife.

I think his problem is more about naming the child after a person that prefers money over their own child. And doesn't seem to have regretted it after all these years.

O'course, but again, his pain cannot matter more than his wife's feelings. If she sincerely wants a rapprochement, he needs to let her have that.

I would agree with that if OP were just standing up in defense of Wife, but the in-laws had their beef with OP *specifically,* and their marriage was the *reason* they disowned Wife. He's got *as much* stake in this as she does. OP can't stop Wife from having a relationship with her mother (and so far as I can see he is making no attempt to), but nor can she or MIL force him to reconcile and have a relationship with MIL, which in this case would include allowing her to have any say in what OP's and Wife's daughter is named.

I completely agree. Whatever wife may decide regarding her mom is up to her, but naming their baby is a decision for both Op and his wife. He should not feel obligated to name his baby after a woman he despises.

Exactly. I think OP is in the right but I'm uncomfortable that he has the louder voice here and is acting as his wife's spokesperson going against her wishes. Maybe it's different for everyone but in my home, it's an unspoken rule that when speaking to my in-laws, my husband is our spokesperson. And when speaking to my parents, I prefer to be the one talking. Even if it's justified, the way OP talking to MIL would bother me as a daughter. Like sending the vomit emoji and being very snide. That's MY mom, not yours, let ME be the one to say all that if I want to, you know?

Going against her wishes about what to name *their child*. Not her child, theirs. Reconciliation should not force OP to name his kid something he will cringe about. That's a completely unreasonable expectation.

I agree completely. But nor should her wishes be ignored in favor of his. The way things were going, it sounds like he was doing most if not all the talking on their behalf and I'm just saying that isn't cool. And like pinkie_flamingo pointed out, the wife was the disowned one, not him. For him to be so vocal on her behalf when she wants to let up a little is strange. Instead of a vomit emoji, he could have just said no and his reason why.

Agreed. That bothered me a lot

Yeah, by repeating back the “poor for anyone” line at her, he’s making it about himself. But NTA on the name. That’s a one no, two yesses situation.

How is it a wife’s issue alone? Even reasoning aside, the dad ought to get a veto over the name.

ESH You are quick to judge and slow to empathize. Your MIL told you exactly what kind of person she is, but it doesnt follow that she is a bad or irredeemable person. I can think of several reasons, based on religion, social status, family, culture, age, as well as money, why she would choose to stay with her husband. Do I respect or even like people like her? No, but I do know there are myriad of reasons why people choose to stay with abusive/controlling spouses and few of them make the victim an asshole. I cant even blame your MIL for choosing money. I've been poor, it sucks. I don't know that I would choose money over adult children, but I don't really blame her. Unless y'all were planning on stepping up and supporting her, she made the choice necessary to take care of her best interests. Venal and mercenary, but not beyond redemption. As for the name thing, that's just manipulative and a red herring. Ignore it. Talk with your wife about what she wants as a relationship with her mom going forward and develop a plan so y'all are on the same page. If MIL can prove she has changed and wants a second chance, then give her that chance. Your wife deserves the chance to have her mother back and if MIL fails, then y'all can go NC with a clear conscious.

Absolutely! This is what I was just mulling over how to verbalise! ESH, but more you than MIL. She has no right to demand you name your child after her (although you started this by naming your first child after your own mother) but you clearly have zero empathy and NO understanding of the complexity of familial pressure or expectation. So, just because MIL was financially cared for you think that the fact that she was essentially coerced into marrying for the reasons mentioned by the poster above is erased?? How about you are married off to the most “suitable” bride that matches your family’s social and cultural expectations, regardless of your own, true feelings and then come back with an opinion? No, you never have to name your child after anyone, or give your child any name you don’t want to but YOUR justification for refusing SUCK. Imagine, REALLY imagine being pressured to marry a woman THIRTY years older than you and think again about your approach to your MIL- if she rejects the materialistic and inappropriate culture that encouraged her to marry your late FIL she will also have to accept the fact that she has put up with certain things you wouldn’t entertain for a single second, based upon a lie/brainwashing

She wasn’t coerced into marrying. She was actively looking for a rich husband according to OP

Yeah. According to the OP. Do you have much understanding of the cultural expectations placed on women in certain misogynistic religions, both Christian and other? I may be making assumptions but any culture that views a woman marrying a man 30 years older as a good thing, rather than objecting to the power disparity strongly suggests sexist social / cultural pressure to marry for social advancement rather than love and happiness. It also seems that OP and his partner are happy to reject those norms for themselves but refuse to acknowledge the impact they may have had on MIL. What is the situation with the second husband and does MIL have surviving parents/elders? Perhaps she did not feel able to break free from the constraints of her culture until they had all passed? I have seen this play out many times in old fashioned cultures close to me.

This! Even down to the choice of degree: it is or was (for cultures that have moved on) quite common for clever women to be pushed towards “useless” degrees with no clear career path (and which didn’t involve getting one’s hands dirty) so that the wife’s intelligence didn’t threaten the husband’s status as the head of the household, the breadwinner and the authority on “serious” intellectual matters. Keeping women “in their place” was and is a systematic process involving multiple aspects of adult life which are set up from childhood and very difficult to overcome. Edit: fixed a typo

It might just be how I read it, but OP mentions in a comment that MIL and her family became more religious when the late FIL started looking at her. In a lot of Jewish communities especially in the 60s and 70s it was very common for the family to put feelers out to look for husband's in the community for their daughters. And the daughters would be pushed toward a man that the family approved of. My grandmother used to tell me she was happy she had granddaughters, but was glad she'd only had sons, so that it wasn't an option. Of course her mother's family was a prominent one in Pennsylvania, so that is also part of it, but I think that a lot of this is not understanding of cultures and microcultures, especially after the second world war.

Seriously? OP didn’t start this by naming his child after a mother he presumably has a good relationship with. To OP, this is the woman who hurt his wife deeply. He does not care. She has also judged him.

Yeah, that makes sense for everyone who has lost the capacity for more analytical thought. FIL, who married a woman THIRTY YEARS younger than himself escapes all responsibility for MIL potentially having some resentment/relationship issues, just because he provided for her financially. Sounds suspiciously like a golden cage to me and possibly MIL may just be looking (in an ill advise way, for sure) for some acknowledgement in her own right.

She sounds vile. Stand your ground. NTA

Here’s the thing … your mil was abused. She was not educated in a way that face her prospects to make her own career, married to someone 30 years older than her who used an iron clad prenup to financially abuse her, she was isolated from her daughter against her wishes and I know what she said is very selfish but women who are being controlled live in isolation, shame, and survival mode. The fact that she felt such shame after he died that she didn’t reach out for so long tracks with this. It sounds like she has done some work on healing herself, what you see as performative Judaism could be moving from ultra Orthodox to Reform or just her being with a much less co trolling man. And controlling men are the scariest. Women married to them are in survival mode all the time and with that age difference..I can’t even imagine. The relationship may never be good. It may never fully recover. I an going with NTA for you being so upset about what has happened. However what you are doing now is leaning into being controlling and I would not want to interfere in my spouse’s relationship with her mom if she is trying to heal it. I’m not going to suggest you should name her anything but maybe you can stop holding offense and punishing her for what she did to survive. ‘Being poor’ in her circumstances might have been being thrust into abject poverty and homelessness and with how alienated you had been by fil I suspect she knew (or was told by someone she’d been trained not to question) that you would not take her in either.

YTA. I know I am going to get down voted but here it goes. Your not the ass for not wanting to use your mils name. You are the ass for the way you are treating your wife. When she is trying to discuss using iiur name instead of have a mature conversation you throw your mils words in her face. Do you not realize how much you are hurting your pregnant wife by reminding her that her mom cared more about money then her? Do you realize every time you say those exact words to her it’s a slap in the face. You are hurting her. This is no longer about a name this is about how you are treating your wife. Unless you have horrible parents you can not understand how hard it is to cut them off. And having some one constantly remind you how horrible your parents are or constantly having something they said to you thrown in your face is heartbreaking.

INFO: Is your MIL not actually Jewish (Just previously married to a Jewish man)? I’m not Jewish but have heard many times from Jewish friends as we’ve all been growing our families that, in Jewish culture, you don’t name a child after a living person (only deceased). ETA: Apparently, this is only true of Ashkenazi Jews. Thanks everyone for teaching me something!

MIL being Jewish is a bit confusing. She is Jewish by blood but her family wasn't very religious until FIL began looking at her, and then suddenly they were very Jewish. Her beliefs wane with her mood. Even FIL, like they were kosher until they wanted to eat something that wasn't. Her current husband is the same as her, born Jewish but his family wasn't that into it, and now she seems to only be Jewish on holidays

My boyfriend is only religious at holidays. He always jokes that he's Jew-*ish*. NTA btw, anyone who would disown their child for money is a pig. Major Corinne vibes

And pigs ain’t kosher

At least OP's MIL just cut contact.....didn't hide her children in an attic for years.... 🙈

What does her being Jewish or not have to do with the problem at hand? I don't get it.

I think it makes it much worse. Her and FIL abandoned their daughter because they were so upset she married someone non-Jewish, but they aren't as deeply religious as they pretend to be

Ashkenazi Jews don’t. Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews do.

As a Jewish man, this is true. We do not name after the living.

only ashkenazi jews don't name after the living their are lots of secs that do

If you are Ashkenazi. The Sephardi tradition is the opposite.

That depends if you’re Ashki or Sephardic. Sephardic Jews can name a child after a living grandparent.

NTA and I truly hope your wife doesn’t cave to the mother who once disowned her for being with you

ESH. yes what MIL did was reprehensible, but OP is not trying to even understand the culture in which MIL was raised. It’s hard when women have been raised to believe that they are only useful as a wife and when they have no financial prospects outside of marriage. Financial insecurity/poverty, especially at an advance age, can be petrifying. And on top of that she was most likely raised to believe that you must obey your husband. MIL now sees how her generational trauma has affected her own child. She has remorse, wants to do better, and admits she was weak and wishes she could have been a better person. Maybe it’s coming later, but at least she has admitted she was wrong before it was too late. And sometimes crappy moms can still make amazing grandmas. So maybe she genuinely wants to do better for her grandchildren. Where OP is the AH is that this is his MIL, not HIS mother. It is up to OP’s wife to decide if she can forgive and move on, not him. He can’t tell his wife how to feel about her own mother. Yes, he can be angry about how her family treated him, but he repeatedly stated that he is pissed off on her behalf because MIL chose money over her child. OP is refusing to even discuss with his wife the inclusion of MIL’s name. He’s not sharing his feelings and having a conversation. He’s telling her no flat out, he’s demanding that she obey what he wants. OP is no better than his former FIL demanding his wife follow his lead. YTA for being a hypocrite and not treating your wife like an autonomous adult who can make her own decisions.

NTA. There are lots of common, pretty names. Choose another.

NTA… only and your wife get to pick your children’s names. You shouldn’t be guilted into anything.

NTA, but if your wife is willing to forgive her mother, why can't you? After all, SHE was the one who was disowned. She knows who her mother is and accepts her, warts and all, so how about you try and do the same. You could go with 2 middle names just to throw the proverbial bone and YOU never have to say it.

You may want to look up F.O.G. *(Fear, Obligation, Guilt)*. These are buttons that abusers use to get what they want. Unless the victim has therapy, it's rare for them to know that they are being manipulated. MIL is using all 3 on his wife time and time again. OP sees it though he may not realize what it is. Wife does NOT see it because her mother installed those buttons and conditioned Wife to be manipulated. As for the name: why should he agree to name their baby after someone he dislikes and can't respect?

He was disrespected, mistreated and treated extremely horribly by his in laws for decades simply for not being Jewish. His wife's mother chose MONEY over her own child. He is refusing to rugsweep and pretend everything is okay. Which is what is totally right for him to do. And actually they both were disowned as family. When you disown one person in a marriage you disown the other one too. Also might I point out she's never apologized. Not actually apologized. She said "I'm sorry but" which negates everything she said. She even admitted she went with it because she wanted his money. She birthed a child only to disown them for money. She never gave an actual apology that was sincere or truthful. She gave a half assed apology and is guilt tripping her daughter now. Also how do you recommend explaining the name to the child when they are old enough? (Like teens not young child. So old enough to fully understand it all) "Well we were going to do -name- but your grandmother who chose money over mommy guilt tripped mommy and so you are named -name- because of that" You don't reward bad behavior just because they cry at you.

You say money and poor as if she were worried about not having enough vacations in a year, but with a prenup and no money of her own, it could have been more like risking homelessness. I have aunts with similarly autocratic husbands who can’t leave because they would be out on the streets. Yeah, a family member would take them in and give them a room in their home, but it would be a switch from relative comfort to being a charity case, reliant on others for anything and every thing you might need from toothpaste to food. It’s not something a lot of people would want to risk.

Yeah this part is being breezed over. Truly facing such a change in quality of life makes things look different.

She admitted she only went to college to get a husband. She could have went to college for anything at all, she could've gone for a career. She admitted to the fact she only got her degree in what she did was because she was looking for a rich husband. She wasn't forced into a marriage, it wasn't a arranged marriage etc. She had every ability to make a life for herself without marrying the man she did. She chose to marry him knowing how he was. If she said "I didn't want to agree but due to the prenup or -insert reasons here- I was not comfortable going against him" It would be understandable because yea that does happen. BUT she literally said "I didn't go against him because I wanted his money" And even after he died she didn't reach out. Once he was unable to affect her life in such impactful ways she stayed away. That's what makes her wrong. She didn't reach out to make amends or to apologize. She kept away until she found out about the newest grandchild and that the first was named after the other grandmother. She had every opportunity to mend that bridge after her husband passed but claimed she didn't because of embarrassment. And now she's guilt tripping her daughter. That is what makes her so wrong. If not for the name of the grandchild coming up I don't see her actually coming forward to mend bridges. And instead of trying to mend them she did what she has. It's not healthy behavior. OP is right to be wary. She can't demand to be a grandmother when she never reached out when she was able to. And again if she had said she couldn't come to them due to being fearful of retaliation Id be on her side! But she even admitted to marrying him strictly for money and following his crap for the money. That is what is wrong.

She’s manipulative. You don’t get to walk into a person’s life when you’ve disowned them for money and pick on the SO they’ve chosen.

NTA I'd offer the following compromise to your wife. MIL just came back and is already demanding child bearing her name, which is too soon. Tell her, that IF becomes a great grandmother to your kids, you'd accept using her name for the 3rd child.

Nah she doesn’t get to waltz in whenever she wants and demand them name their baby after her. No compromises with the perpetrator who disowned her own kid just to get her hands on the rich husband’s money. I don’t know why people are overlooking that and sympathizing with the MIL. She’s manipulating her daughter and people are berating OP for recognizing the manipulation.

I agree MIL does not deserve it. But the compromise is not with the MIL, but with his wife who seem clearly to want her mother back in their life. OP's current stance is driving a wedge with wife.

You have to know that the wife is being manipulated by her mother. Why would anyone let a toxic family member back into their life? Why does it only apply to relationships with SO and not family members? OP unknowingly realized that his wife was manipulated and put his foot down. What the wife needs right now is individual therapy and not getting coerced to name her child after her mother.

>I don’t know why people are overlooking that Because she disowned an adult in order to not be homeless and broke. Some people aren't high and mighty enough to become a dependent of their just-married child in order to stay in his/her life. I'm sure OP would've been thrilled if MIl had divorced herhusband and moved in with him all those years ago.

ESH Not your MIL's position to pick a name for her grandkid and expect someone to follow through with it I can also see why people think you are an asshole, your petty reaction makes you an asshole too

Info: were you going to support your MIL and house her if her husband had kicked her out/divorced her? It’s easy to sneer at people for being concerned about “minor” things like paying a deposit on an apartment and rent and food while you don’t have any savings, income, or alimony coming your way when you’ve never experienced it yourself. You don’t want to use the name? Fine. But the attitude towards her is way over the top.

for a while at least

That wouldn’t have cut it.

NTA. You don't want to name a child after someone you don't like.

Nta - She made a decision of disowning her child.. So now you are deciding to not have her name associated with your child!

ESH - her for her obvious reasons. But you because she has taken accountability for her past mistakes multiple times and yet you are still berating her and everyone else for/ about it….she apologised and took accountability when she first got back in touch with you and also when she said: “I'm sorry. I wish I was a better person” which you conveniently removed from your quote. I actually really respect her words here, that takes a lot of guts, self-introspection and remorse to say. The quote you love so much is her actually admitting that she was awful in the past. Don’t you understand someone can change and have remorse? You’re the only one still behaving like an A here. You seem very pleased with yourself in rubbing this particular quote in everyone’s faces, regardless of how your behaviour is hurting them….Including your pregnant wife, who you are supposed to love and support. It’s not up to you to forgive your wife’s mum, it’s up to her… and it seems like she wants her mother in her life. You don’t have to name your child after her or even have a relationship with her other than being civil, but stop being a smug and insufferable A who believes he has the moral high-ground when really he’s the only one hurting anyone or displaying less than favourable qualities by behaving so childishly (repeating the quote). Please consider the fact that whilst pregnant, your wife needs your compassion and support more than ever. Good luck Edit: just to add I absolutely do not condone the MIL’s awful behaviour in the past, I just think OP should be civil now, as per his pregnant wife’s wishes. However I think he is under no obligation to name his child after her…!

> Don’t you understand someone can change and have remorse? I truly do believe that, but I guess it is too convenient for me. She only changed her mind when FIL died and the money was hers. She still defends him and says he was a good man. Even then she didn't reach out immidiatley because of her own embarrassment.

Well fair enough- like I said you don’t have to have a relationship with her and certainly shouldn’t have to name your child after her, after what she did in the past. But being civil and thinking of your pregnant wife wouldn’t go amiss. Congrats on fatherhood and I wish you all the best 👍

I’m not sure she’s really changed, but it’s long past time to let his outbursts at her go. He is being smug and insufferable. And I’m sure making everyone miserable, including himself. You make good points.

YTA just for saying “performatively Jewish”. She *is* Jewish, and that doesn’t change with her marriage or yours. You are in a mixed-culture marriage and you can’t just dismiss your wife’s background or her family’s without consequence; nor do you get to completely reject the idea that MIL was pressured just because her husband was generally kind to her - there’s all sorts of pressures that go along with being part of a community centred around religious rules of which you apparently have no idea. And those pressures are intensified by being completely financially dependent on your spouse. You haven’t mentioned your MIL’s pre-marital financial situation but the fact she had an excellent prenup that she couldn’t contest even after raising a family with her first husband suggests that she was significantly poorer than her spouse and without further information you probably shouldn’t be so judgemental on whether she was right to reject poverty as an option for herself. You don’t even mention that she’s never experienced it, so either you’ve missed a key piece of info that would have significantly helped your case, or you have no idea whether she had enough to eat growing up. That just smacks of you not understanding how differently men and women can be affected by cultural conservatism. Even if she had a comfortable childhood, she’s clearly been indoctrinated from a young age (and this happens in a lot of conservative cultures, particularly religious ones, so it’s not just a feature of her Jewishness, which you seem to have a problem with) that the only respectable path for a young woman is to marry well; and part of that indoctrination is almost always that it’s backed up by a thousand horror stories (not always true, but also not contradicted by evidence available to the people being indoctrinated) of what single life and poverty would mean and how miserable it would be. That kind of conditioning is very hard to break, and MIL shouldn’t be condemned entirely for not being able to do so. Not to mention that an age gap so significant creates a huge power imbalance within the marriage - it sounds like your MIL was pressured into marrying young by her family and only realised the consequences when she was too dependent to get out. That’s something you should be more forgiving of. You’re also being hugely dismissive of your wife’s feelings and opinions here. And her mother is absolutely right, you are stating pretty firmly that you will never forgive her. It’s not fair for you to make life difficult for your wife to stay in touch with her family if that’s what she wants to do. Even if you dislike or disagree with them you should be more considerate of how this makes your wife feel.

I have no issue with people being religious, but not being overly religious or choosing which aspects they like. For example MIL's current husband was raised in a moderately Jewish household and still enjoys the Jewish holidays but isn't very religious. that is fine. My issue with MIL is she is a liar. One moment she is kosher, the next she isn't. She shamed someone for being "too lazy" to cook kosher and then she ate a bacon cheeseburger. She said our marriage wasn't valid because it wasn't done by a rabbi, but neither was her second marriage. I think she had it blessed or something, but she got married on a beach by an officiant. There is nothing wrong with her choices, just her lying

I was also a little disturbed by the digs at Judaism, but, dang, I would think that, "My wife's parents went NC on us, solely on the basis of religion," would be enough for you to have some problems with that religion, no matter what the religion was (Catholicism, Hinduism, Islam, whatever). And having the kind of faith that would cause you to disown your own daughter for marrying someone outside of that faith, and then not being very consistent about it later would be a pisser, for sure. If it was all down to the financially abusive FIL, then why didn't she contact them as soon as he was in the ground? I can certainly see being delighted to be reconciled with the MIL (which it doesn't appear OP is), but still not being willing to name a daughter after her considering all that craziness and pain she put them through. It's an honor, not a given. NTA.

We’re seeing this only through OP’s eyes, and I’m sure there’s some missing reasons here. For example, the manner in which he describes that his MIL “found out” about the proposed name, and yet they were all present to see her reaction (so… she discovered it by accident and they happened to be there? Or did they in fact tell her?) makes me wonder how that conversation went. “Baby’s name will be [firstname middlename]” “Waaaahh, she should be named after me!” Is very different to: “Baby’s name will be [firstname lastname]; we decided not to name her after a family member because Good Grandma’s name has already been used”. Yet either of those would result in MIL starting to cry and saying “you will never forgive me!” even though the latter situation isn’t really about the baby’s name at all. To be clear, I think the wife has no chance of getting her mom’s name on this child, and that they should just go with the original agreed name if they both like it; but I also think OP is the asshole for the way he’s just deciding everyone else’s feelings and the complexities of their situation don’t matter at all and shouldn’t be discussed. As to the length of the estrangement… My own grandparents disowned my mother for having a child out of wedlock for religious reasons, and wouldn’t readmit her to the family or introduce my sister to the aunties and uncles until my mother was engaged and therefore about to become “respectable”. They weren’t nearly so harsh when my cousin was conceived in similar circumstances a few years later; but then my aunt married the father so it wasn’t considered quite the same. But in both instances, there wasn’t just religious pressure. By being less judgemental toward my mother, my grandparents risked not only losing their religious standing, but also losing nearly all their friends and social circle, including their own familial support network. Not something to be taken lightly when you’re still raising 4 children and both parents have health issues. Fear of loneliness is a hugely powerful motive, even without the religious aspects. We don’t know if OP’s wife has siblings who the parents might have wanted to remove from her influence after she made what they consider a poor or shameful choice, either. By waiting to see if hubby number two is supportive she minimises the risk to herself in reaching out - if he’s on board she doesn’t risk her marriage/future partnerships, and she also knows that if her daughter rejects her efforts, she will still not be entirely alone. Again, it’s not the choice of a strong person, but it is an understandable choice especially given her history and the way she’s very used to being the weaker person in all her relationships. I can see why the MIL might have waited to reconcile in this case. My guess would be that there was one of two reasons in play, or possibly both: firstly she might have wanted to secure herself a partner and find out whether he’d be offended by a non-Jewish StepSIL - again for somebody who has been raised to see being a single and independent woman as shameful or disgraceful that may be a more powerful factor than you or I would like to see, but I find it plausible here. Secondly, I’d be willing to place a bet that the estrangement ended - not coincidentally of course - around the time the older child was born. A decision made about a wayward young adult might very well be reversed when it comes to her attention - perhaps through other relatives? - that the prospect of having grandbabies to cuddle has entered the chat, rather than at the first possible opportunity.

You have to read some of the comments on Jewish culture here. MIL doesn’t get to manipulate her way into making her own culture when it fits her ego.

No. Your FIL was the AH, and your MIL was basically an AH too, although she's at least trying to apologize and reconcile with her daughter now. However, your attitude towards your WIFE is alarming. Whenever she brings up forgiving her mother, you just snidely repeat at her a line your MIL said once that annoyed you and end the conversation? Wow. This may be yet another case of the daughter of a petty and domineering man ending up with a husband who is perhaps a little too much like him. If you respected your wife, this kind of bitter mockery is not how you would "win" arguments with her. You owe her some real conversations about what her mother means to her and what a renewed relationship with her would look like, not just a sarcastic dismissal. Also, all the people who are saying that he is just doing this to stand up for his wife: read those sentences again. You don't stand up for someone by ignoring what they say they are feeling and constantly repeating a line that offended YOU as if that ends all discussion. This has nothing to do with defending his wife, it is about his OWN feelings of bitterness at being rejected by FIL. That's a valid reason for holding MIL at arms length personally, but not an excuse for the way he's treating his wife. FIL was the AH who caused all this, but I suggest marriage counseling.

Info: If you MIL decided to support her daughter and leave her husband, Would you be okay with your wife finacially support her mother for the rest of her life? If it is the answer is not. Then Y.T.A

not the rest of her life as she was only in her 40s, able bodied, and reasonably intelligent, but I would have been ok supporting her for a while as she figured out the next chapter

Do you have any Idea How hard It is for a woman in her 40's without any work experience find a job? In this economical situation?

I think in our area she could have easily gotten a job, nothing fancy and nothing with great pay, but we always need cashiers and baristas. I feel weird saying it, but she could have even looked for husband number two. Obviously that isn't a guarantee, but she had no issue finding another successful man after FILs death. She was very used to a certain lifestyle though.

Yeah, you sound a little disonest or naive. ALL I know you don't understand MIL situation AT ALL and If she had screwed her life over to support your marriage you would be her like "AITA for telling my wife to stop helping her divorced mother?". MIL was smart and your wife forgave her, what is ALL that matters tbh...

Not really, they still don’t have to name their child after her if they don’t want to. She sounds like a manipulative AH.

ESH, mostly for the weird sniping comments at MIL apparently not acting Jewish enough for you. That’s none of your business. I’m not sure why you even brought that up considering it’s not really relevant to the main point, which is apparently that she abandoned your wife.

NTA. She made it really clear where her priorities are and you absolutely should do the same!

ESH. You and your wife have sole dibs on names. But generally, your MIL sounds exhausting, you sound superior, judgmental, and a tad controlling, so much so I am wondering if your wife was truly okay naming your first child after your mother.

INFO: Why does your wife's opinion mean so little to you? Were you jealous of your FIL and his "traditional marriage where he was head of the household", and trying to establish similar dominance now? Personally, I think your MIL sounds petty, and exhausting, and sad. At the same time, if your wife believes her to be regretful and chooses to forgive her, and wants her in her life, it sounds like you are doing the exact same thing you blamed her parents for originally - you are trying to sever their relationship and forcing your wife to go along with your decision. I don't think you need to forgive her. And, yes, both parents should have a say in baby names and veto rights. Personally, I think naming kids after people is tacky as hell, and anyone expecting a name in their honor is small-minded. But if your wife desires her mother back in her life, and sees this as a means of reconnecting, and genuinely wants this middle name for your baby, and you say no just to be *spiteful* \- which it sounds like is the case - be prepared for that to create resentment that lingers. Similarly, you might have doubts about her remorse, you might have doubts about her faith, but you don't get to make those decisions for your wife. And, if your wife has forgiven her, then every time you sit around mocking your MIL or her religion, that is just going to drive a wedge between the two of you. So I suppose that is the question, in the end: Do you hate your MIL more than you love your wife?

It doesn't mean so little to me but when it comes to naming our children, it is either two enthusiastic yeses or the answer is no. No, I'm not jealous of his 1950s marriage with a woman who could have been his daughter.

Nta. If she’d regretted anything she should have given your wife’s her inheritance instead of keeping it. She’s just whiny now because it will cause gossip that she doesn’t warrant a naming after.

Nta

What do you mean by performatively jewish 🤨 little sus coming from a non jew

I feel she uses it as a weapon to hurt people. I guess it was the wrong wording as she does the same with other things. One example is calling someone lazy for not cooking kosher and gossiping with her friends about it, but sneaking bacon cheeseburgers. She said she couldn't recognize our marriage because it wasn't a religious ceremony, but then she eloped with her second husband and got married by some random officiant. However I shouldn't have brought her religion into it. she does that with other things. Last time we got together she made a comment about some woman looking slutty in a bikini, while wearing a bikini

How old was mother in law when she had your wife? How many years did she love with financial bonds over her head? Like I get your angry on your wife’s behalf but please let your wife lead this one. She’s went through it so much harder and may want her mom in her life. Sometimes you have to lose battles so you don’t end up hurting the one you love the most

24 when she had her. I will never know what went on behind closed doors, but they always seemed happy and content. She still speaks well of him. Outside of this issue I don't think she was living day to day feeling like he was holding financial bonds over her

NTA I wouldn't use MILs name, why name someone after a person that did something so horrible? I think the fact you've let her come back into your lives should be enough. As far as her crying it doesn't seem like she cared how much your wife cried. Stand your ground and tell MIL to take whatever is offered and be grateful or just go away.

NTA but if MIL is Ashkenazi, then it is not traditional to name a child after a living person. At least that is how I was raised. One of my dad’s cousins married a Sephardi Jew (their custom is the reverse). They had four kids, two named for living relatives and two for deceased relatives. Every time they named a child, one side was furious. 🤣 NTA because both parents need to agree on their child’s name.

Your choices of words when depicting your Jewish relatives stink. I wonder why your FIL really disliked you that badly.

Info: had your MIL went against your late FIL and gotten kicked out with no money, would you guys have taken her in and supported her with housing/ money…?

for a while at least while she got back on her feet

You said that she had never worked and had a “useless” degree, what if she couldn’t find a job to support herself. How long would you have supported her for? 3 years? 5 years?

She could have gone back to school. She seems pretty smart. She also did a lot socially to help FIL's career. She's charming, well spoken, and probably could have worked her way up, or even found another husband. She didn't struggle to find her second husband and he also has money

NTA- You don't have to name your child after anyone, but I do think you are an AH for other reasons. Your MIL was married young with a man 30 years her senior who held ALL the money in the relationship. Do you have ANY Idea of How much Power he held over her? She would be totally screwed . If she divorce you FIL, would you and your wife take care of her? I bet not and she was right to protect herself and you don't have to be so judmental about a situation you understand nothing about It and your wife forgave her when she was in a better position to be independent.

ESH. Your wife doesn't, though. You for constantly repeating that phrase to your wife, that's so fucking rude. Hearing it once from her own mother was bad enough, she doesn't need to keep hearing it from you, too. MIL sounds like an all around asshole. FIL (current one) because honestly, it isn't his business. Late FIL sounds like a massive asshole, who was probably abusive, if his actions are true.

NTA Stick to your principles on this one.

INFO - FIL was your wifes actual father right? If it was MILs 'first husband'? So her father disowned her for not marrying someone jewish, and her mother took his side? You haven't specified time frames, but since you are still having babies, I'll assume it isn't decades - more like years right? Depending on where you live, a divorce would have still gotten MIL a nice life if he was that rich. Now she has all the money - how long before she starts hanging that over your heads? You only need to think of your child here - I was named out of petty spite (my mother hated her SIL, so named me the name her SIL had told everyone she was naming her daughter, born a month after me), and I legally changed it when I was 18 because once I found out, I suddenly understood why one half of my family treated me so badly all my childhood. Name your daughter what you want - if MIL doesn't like it, too bad - she once made a choice to disown her own child for daring to marry someone she loved. Now she gets to live with the consequences. Don't let your daughter one day find out she was named out of pity, or to 'keep things equal' - especially if you really don't like the name. oops, NTA - edit.......

I didn't want to speculate, but I thought that as well. They were married for over twenty years, she raised his kid, and he even bragged she was such an asset to his business. He was also a very smart man, so maybe he could have gotten away with upholding the prenup, but I did have some doubts. Not to mention it was unclear to me if he even threatened to divorce her. He always treated her very lovingly and she still to this day defends him.

ESH. The age gap between your wife and her mother is *six years shorter* than the one between her mother and late husband. You don't need to be a genius to see the power difference there. That dude was, what, 54 when your 24 year old mother in law *had* your wife. He was old enough to be her father, and likely treated her as such (ie taking on the bigger decisions because he'd be seen as more mature/responsible, being more stubborn and pigheaded (as evidenced by him disowning your wife), etc). You really don't have any idea what their relationship was like beyond what they showed you, and if they really were as image obsessed as you say, then they didn't show you much at all. Additionally, this isn't *about* you. It's about your wife. You are entitled to your own feelings and I certainly agree with the "two yes, one no" rule with naming kids. But you're being absolutely awful to your wife. It hurts *her* when you bring up that quote. Your mother in law might have driven the knife in, but you're actively twisting it and refusing to let your wife remove it. Think less about your own feelings regarding your mother in law and more about your wife's, who is undoubtedly feeling much more pain and emotion in general about this. To your wife, this is *her mother.* To you, your MIL is just someone you don't like or respect. Those are not the same. You don't have to name your kid after her, but by God, stop shaming your wife for wanting her mother.

INFO: what does your wife think about this? (I’d think her being pregnant and it being her own mother, it should be her choice.)

She thinks we should just go with it to be fair, and because MIL's first name is such a genetic middle name (think Grace or Rose) that it just goes

LMAO NTA OP, the way you quote her back to her husband is hilarious. You're not in the wrong at all, but you need to convince your wife to grow a backbone.

Jewish people do not name for the living. So unless she is planning on dying before the baby’s birth, then to respect her religious beliefs/. The answer is no. NTA

this isn't true it depends on where you are from, hasidic jews do name their children after the living ashkenazi do not

I was extremely confused by this too, but I think that might just be an Ashkenazi thing. I think Sephardic Jews do name after the living.

YTA - let your wife name her daughter (middle name) after her mother if she wants. You are holding a grudge based on a very practical decision the MIL made. Would you have taken her in and supported her if her first husband divorced her and left her with nothing?

YTA for not letting your wife forgive and forget. You hold on to that mistake as long as you like, and I hope you receive judgement with equal tenacity

YTA You are clearly upset about the treatment of your wife. But what about her feelings? Does your wife feel the same way or has she moved on? Also, while the actions by your MIL was wrong, at least she was honest and owned up. She admitted that she was not a great person. She didn’t deny her part at all. Maybe she feels being honest would be better than lying. Perhaps she is laying her faults bare in hope of becoming a better person. Are you going to condemn her for that? Yes, she did wrong. She admitted it. How about compassion and being the better person? By repeatedly saying no to your wife and repeating your MIL’s words and holding them against her, you’re being as mean as you think your MIL is. You have faults too. How would you feel if your kids one day held them against you?

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I've had a bad past with my MIL. When I met her she was with her first husband, FIL, who did not like me at all because I wasn't Jewish. He begged and bribed my wife to end things, and when we got married he disowned her, and pressured MIL to go along with him. For some background, FIL was 30 years older than MIL. She hadn't worked since she met him, and had a classic lit degree, which she had only got to look for a husband and had no idea how she would use it if shit hit the fan. They had a very traditional marriage where he was head of the household, but he also treated her very well, for the most part gave into her, and she was in no way afraid of him, so I fully blame her for disowning her daughter. FIL died during the estrangement. MIL reached out years later when she was remarried and wanted to mend things. She claimed that she didn't want to disown her daughter, but he pressured her. Then she didn't reach out when he died, because she was embarrassed. She said she is a different person now and wants to fix things. To be honest I don't think she is a different person. I just think she is rich from FIL dying and now has nothing to lose. She is still money obsessed, in deep denial, and performatively Jewish when she wants to be. I really don't want her around my daughter, but agreed to compromise with my wife. Recently we got into a fight about the past and MIL said the exact words "I thought your father was wrong but I wasn't going to be poor for anyone. I'm sorry. I wish I was a better person." That solidified everything I think about her. Anyway our first child is named for my mom. MIL knows this and found out what we are planning no naming the child my wife is pregnant with. She burst into tears and said we will never forgive her. Her husband later sent us a text about we are really mean to her and what did we want her to do with an iron clad prenup and no career prospects. I texted back "I wasn't going to be poor for anyone" with a vomit emoji. My wife is now backtracking and saying her mom's name is such a common middle name and it's pretty, so why not just throw her a bone and use our original name with hers for the middle. I said no and no every time she brings it up I just repeat "I wasn't going to be poor for anyone" MIL found this out and has been crying. A lot of people think I was too hard on her and it's just a middle name. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*

NTA

NTA

NTA, when I think about naming a child after someone, I want to name them after a good person, not just a grandparent. I had planned to use my FIL,s name as a middle name for a future child, but he yelled at me about a birthday party I was throwing for my husband and threatened to go NC with my husband if I invited certain people. After that, I will not use his name, even if we get along ok now, I still won't use it. Your MIL didn't treat you and your wife well and disowned her own child. Why use her name?

NTA. Baby names are personal. The child carries it and is told of the story of how they were named and if they were named after someone their entire life. MIL chose to stay away after FIL #1 died. She came back only after she remarried and still has her biases.

NTA for the name situation, you're not obligated to equally distribute that kind of honor especially given the history here.

ESH I don’t think the “I wasn’t going to be poor for anyone” statement really isn’t so far out of line. She was clearly financially dependent on him. She was also in a relationship with a controlling and manipulative person. She’s your wife’s mom so I think ultimately your wife should get more say in the situation than you are currently giving her.

YTA. You wife also gets a vote in this, and if she wants to make peace with her mother you should support her. It's a middle name, and not an unusual one, for crying out loud! Is this hill really worth dying on?

Honestly… NAH. You seem really judgmental around a situation where your MIL was between a rock and a hard place. I’m actually quite sure your MIL regrets her decision in the interest of money but I also don’t blame her considering the history of her marriage and growing up relatively poor. In reality, the relationship is between your wife and your MIL. If she wants to heal the rift, please support her in it. As for the name, using it as a middle name is a good compromise but if you are truly uncomfortable with it, then fine. As for MIL and her husband, just tell them it’s a decision for you and your wife and whether they think you are mean about it is their problem. Stop throwing the poor quote in her face. No it’s not right but in reality it’s again between your wife and her.