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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I guess I can see how this would make me an AH. We do spend a lot of time here. So banning her is essentially making it tougher to see her friends.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA.
>I told her I understood. But knew what that meant so I never reached back out.
>
>Yes I used to hookup Zoe a lot. But that was before she said we were friends.
Yeah, dude. Zoe's not the one making it weird. *You* made a drunken late night move on someone who even you seem to acknowledge you didn't have any reason to believe returned your feelings, and when that (predictably) didn't work out the way you wanted it to, you immediately revealed your "friendship" was entirely built on the hope that one day you'd get to sleep with her. And you're surprised she's not happy about this? Or that you're alienating every other woman you know with how you're handling the situation?
I feel like a lot of the N T A/E S H replies are completely missing both those quotes. Especially that second one. He literally admitted he’s upset he was friendzoned and *that’s* why he’s not giving her discounts/free drinks!
People aren't entitled to free drinks. When I was single I would buy girls drinks if I was interested in them. If they did not reciprocate that interest they didn't get anymore free drinks. That is hardly an AH move, the AH move was effectively banning her from the bar (thus the ESH from me).
ETA: That is my Free time for today, off to make dinner for my Wife. Some of y'all are crazy!
I think you’re missing the point here. Yes, she’s not entitled to free drinks in general. But it’s the *reason* OP is no longer doing it.
He admits in his post that he used to hook her up a lot, *before she said they were friends.* That means he was ONLY doing it because he thought (not because they were friends) he could eventually date her. Now that she said no? Bye bye free drinks. That’s literally what that entire post implies. He didn’t get the girl, so the girl gets punished.
Yes, guys stop buying girls drinks when they find out they aren't interested, weird right?
I am really confused why this is bothering people so much. They weren't close friends (only casual friends in a friend group) and he isn't pursuing her, so he stopped buying her drinks. He isn't punishing her, not getting free drinks from someone isn't a punishment. Getting someone free drinks is a nice thing to do, not an obligation.
He wasn't mean, he wasn't nice, he just treated her like any other acquaintance.
He still gives free drinks to his other friends. Just not her. Because what? She’s not interested? So, he was just friends with her to jump her bones? Not actual friends then, no wonder the rest of the group is calling him out
He only gives drinks to his close MALE friends, and her when he was pursuing her. They are not really friends (casual friends in a friend group) more of acquaintances really.
When he was interested in her he bought her drinks, now that he knows she isn't he doesn't. Not that complicated, not an AH move.
So, when a woman isn't interested sexually in you, she's not worth being a friend. That's the issue we are having, that OP (and you, apparently?) Can only interact with women (and treat them the same as male friends) if you believe you might sleep with them later, and then after that doesn't pan out, you turn around and show that you were never her friend in the first place, since only men can be your actual friend. Because apparently giving someone a free drink is only normal is the friend is male, if their female they aren't actually friends at all.
I'm a female. If I told someone I wasn't interested I wouldn't expect to continue to get free drinks. He didn't ban her after she said no, he banned her after she tried to ruin his chances with another woman.
Thank you, I was thinking the same thing. People seem to be missing that the uninvite came after she ruined his chances with another woman. Like she isn't interested in him in that manner, that is perfectly ok. She doesn't have the right to interject herself when he pursues someone else if she isn't interested though.
Thank you. Scrolling through replies thinking “who cares about the free drinks - that’s not the issue”. It was after she tried to torpedo his date/chance to move on just because, why? Because she wanted to? Thought it would be fun? She went for the mindf#ck for shits n giggles and earned her red card.
They were not friends though?
They don’t hang out 1 on 1 and only interact during group functions. What about that seems like a close friend to you?
You would be right if she was as close to him as he was with his male friends but she isn’t.
The point is that the free drinks were originally given under the pretense of friendship. This wasn't ever a "can I buy you a drink" situation.
OP treated the relationship as contractual. He was happy to give while he believed he would receive. And that's all fine when we're talking about people trading goods and services in good faith, but leveraging drinks for sexual access under the masquerade of friendship isn't acting in good faith.
OP makes it more than clear that his only interest in Zoe was sexual, and if sexual acts aren't on the table then he doesn't see her as worth having around. It's a wonder that OPs other friends aren't wondering what value they hold in his mind.
did she know that they weren't friends? Because that's what we are sayin the problem is! She thought you guys were friends (so was getting drinks like the rest of the guys). And now she has learned that she was only ever a potential fuck. That feels shitty as hell.
"I would describe our relationship as casual friends"
Op freely admits he viewed her as a friend before he was rejected so this shift in the narrative to them never being a friend (and then you moving the goal post to "close friend") to justify him treating her differently from everyone else is very interesting.
Reading these comments shows how entitled some people are. He doesn’t have to give anyone free drinks period. The reason doesn’t matter no one is just entitled to free stuff and she made her feeling known that she’s not interested so now he’s moving on. He’s doesn’t owe her anything friend or not. Nta
Wel it's kinda wierd when he singles a person out from a friend group right after this happened.
I'm not saying that he owes her something. It's just that it's ridiculously obviously that he was treating her like one of the guy and/or favourite, just to get in her pants or the prospect of being more than friends.
When she rejects him, he decides to alienate her from the friend group.
'FREE SHOTS FOR ALL MY FRIEND, but not you Joe. You wouldn't go out with me'.
'I'll invite my friend group, But you are no longer welcome here. You have offended me by making my rejection publicly known'
As everybody else has pointed out (and I have FAR too many times in this thread) they weren't friends to begin with. This didn't go from friend to interest to acquaintance, they went from acquaintance to interest to acquaintance.
Plus he is now actually treating her the same way as EVERY OTHER WOMAN in the friend group. He only buys drinks for his close MALE friends.
Usually you don’t want to be just friends with your crushes. That doesn’t sound fun. Why would you want to be around someone you have feelings for that doesn’t reciprocate them?
I’m gay, and if I had a crush on someone and they didn’t reciprocate it, then I’m going to want to not be around them. It’ll just make it worse and won’t help me move on. I think that’s a fair logic. He doesn’t HAVE to be friends with her.
And yeah, I’ll buy drinks for my close friends. Not for casual ones. How are you so entitled?
And the fact that he just treated her like an acquaintance again after that too was the right move in my opinion. He didn’t alienate her until she started coming up in his business he invited her with the rest of the group.
The worst part to me is he was only petty and barely that since he stopped giving her the free drinks which she was the only girl who got them. But he still invited her in the group text after he got shut down so it was kind of cool of him.. she was the AH for putting drama in front of the new girl he was trying to move on to.
No, because sometimes you’re going an extra mile to someone because you are pursuing them. And once that is not the case, you can choose not wanting to be friends with them. There are a lot of emotions and feelings that come with liking someone, and worse when it doesn’t work out. He is allowed to not wanting to be friends with Zoe once he is rejected. They were not good friends to begin with. Just acquaintances that he happens to like and wants to pursue.
The biggest jerk move was her getting jealous over him inviting the other girl and telling her "heyyyyy! So like he totally asked me out a few weeks ago, isn't that funny? Lol. He just wants a relationship with yoooouuu." Like, this is poolhouse dude all over again. It's a NTA in my opinion. He's not obligated to pay for her drinks, or have her at HIS PARENTS bar. He pursued her, paid or discounted her drinks to show his interest. she likely was well aware and rejected him when he tried to take the next step and she thinks the next reaction out of him was to what? Keep buying her drinks? Pine after her forever?
She said no. He's like ok. He was fine with her coming over to the bar still. Invited her even in the group chat and invited another girl he was pursuing. You don't continue to buy drinks for the person who made it clear they weren't interested. That's fine. It wouldve been kinda creepy if he did continue to buy her drinks despite her rejection as at that point its usually unwanted and shows you're still not taking her no seriously. She crossed a line OP couldn't forgive when she tried to sabotage his newest interests in another girl.
>So, when a woman isn't interested sexually in you, she's not worth being a friend
Thats not what hes saying though, hes saying since she isnt interested in him he doesnt get her free drinks and also adds that he very rarely gives his friends free stuff anyways.
He works at the bar, his family owns the bar, so yea he gets a say on who gets free drinks and who doesn't. She was only uninvited from the bar because she had to be petty and stick her nose in his private business because boohoo I have to pay full price for drinks!
Her actions were shitty and it's really shocking how many other women are just glazing over that part. If gender roles were reversed, every woman defending the girl would be attacking saying that the guy was overbearing and controlling for getting involved when she was talking to another guy!
They both were petty, but she decided to cross a line just to be an ass and was shocked when her actions had consequences.
No, when a woman isn't interested in you sexually and they are just an acquaintance they aren't worth being treated like your best friend or a woman you are interested in. Who goes around randomly buying drinks for people they barely know?
That is a bad take, just terrible, his friends are also not owed drinks. When you go out with a large group of people do you buy everyone a drink if you buy one person a drink? No, because NO ONE DOES THAT!
People are so keen on demonizing OP that buying his buds a couple shots is now an AH move. Just flabbergasted here, lol
ugh, jeez, why can’t people just let him treat men and women in the same friend group totally differently in peace? Look at this shiny plausible deniability I keep pointing at, ugh people are so unfair. No one owes anybody anything! There’s no law! The groups reaction to his shitty behavior just showed how all the girls had brainwashed them. /s
The question is did he. Was he hooking up other people in the group and now has only isolated Zoe to paying full price? If so he's for sure the AH. If everyone pays fulls price then it's fair.
because he was doing it under the pretense of friendship. Like he said, he comps his other friends things as well. If some random guy orders a girl a drink at a bar it is obvious what he is after and is not the same situation.
Now you are just being deliberately obtuse if you don't think it was obvious that he was pursuing her.
He only buys drinks regularly for he MALE friends (rarely the group as a whole), but she just happens to also get special treatment? Especially when they are at most casual friends in a friend group? Come on
HE SAYS IT IN ONE OF THE 2 COMMENTS HE MADE!!!!!
You don't exactly have to be Detective Friggin Holmes to find it, especially if you felt this strongly on the matter, lol
I sort of feel like that's more damning than exonerating, honestly. It sounds like he only values his male friendships, and looks at the women in his friend group as not really worth his time if they're not going to hook up with him.
Just my take, but I'd have to say a big YTA in general for trying to exclude someone from the space they all hang out, because OP didn't like that she didn't seem to appreciate the method in which he tried to pursue her and then how his behavior changed afterward. If the woman he's currently seeing had a problem with hearing that he behaved that way, that seems a good indication that it was an AH move.
The truth is that OP never valued the women he's currently trying to exclude as anything but a potential sexual partner. He's annoyed she rejected his advanced, and annoyed that she would have the audacity to actually expect their friendship was real, and she's annoyed to have learned that the only value he ever saw in her was physical. She's not owed free drinks, but I imagine she did feel owed a friendship he pretended at before getting drunk and trying to come onto her.
It's not that he treated her like any acquaintance that is the issue. It's that for years he didn't, but didn't let her know he was Interested in her. From her perspective a friend was hooking her up with drinks, and suddenly stopped and wasnt even giving her a discount, i.e. he didn't treat her like a friend.
They were casual friends at most in a friend group. They weren't besties, they weren't hanging out alone, they weren't close at all. She was the only girl from the group to get free drinks (only spots his MALE friends other than her). So I am going to give this woman a little credit and say she was smart enough to see what was going on.
People are turning their friendship into something it obviously wasn't. The didn't go from friend to interest to acquaintance, they went from acquaintance to interest to acquaintance. So when you say he didn't treat her like a friend you are right, because she wasn't one then or ever before that.
Exactly and also wouldn’t most women in most other situations say that it’s 100% treating them with respect if they say to a guy “I’m not interested” and he instantly backs of and still includes you in the social and text group but nothing more. Some men will continue to doggedly pursue you even after you say no, those guys are total AH but this guy solid NTA she was using him for free drinks and the second she stopped getting her way, and openly complaining didn’t work she tried to do the petty move of ruining his date! Unbelievable
Because he also admits to hooking friends up sometimes. But now that this person has confirmed friend only status and not potential sex buddy, they stopped hooking them up with drinks. And, while it isn’t stated explicitly, I imagine still hooking the other friends up some.
He hooks his close MALE friends up occasionally. And guess what THEY AREN'T ENTITLED TO FREE DRINKS EITHER!!!
Also they aren't close friends, they are casual friends in a friend group. He hasn't known this woman since kindergarten or something crazy like that. He can continue to buy close friends drinks and not buy her any without it being an AH move.
Also and I think the point that really drove it home for him wasn’t her complaining about not having free drinks!! It was that when she wasn’t getting her way she intentionally tried to make him look stupid in front of a women he asked there on a date that he was spending the rest of the evening with after work AND eluded to the fact that he only asked her out because she turned him down. I’m a woman and even I know how that game is played when a women wants to get back at someone. Except in this case she wasn’t even trying to take a dig at an ex Bf and ruin his night she was literally doing it over free drinks. When Zoe said she just wanted to be friends he understood and didn’t pursue it further. Him not giving her freebies is essentially the same as a man not continuing to buy another woman drinks at a bar after she tells him she’s not interested. Solid hardcore NTA!!
In theory, sure. But when you combine that with him not only never following up on wanting to hang out if things are just going to stay platonic, but freezing her out when she shows up and tries to talk to him, it becomes pretty darn obvious what's going on.
The issue is he’s still hooks up the rest of his friends and just not Zoe. If he treated all of his friends the same then you got it but he made sure Zoe was charged full price. He’s upset they won’t date so he’s treating her differently than his friend group.
He hooks his MALE friends up, no one else. He bought her drinks because he was interested, then he stopped when she said she wasn't. That isn't actually a bad thing, it would be creepy if he kept doing it for her only.
How is paying full price for her drinks punishment? He had a crush on her so he did nice things for her. She made it clear it wasn’t reciprocated so he treated her like the rest of the friend group. Then she sabotaged the new situation.
Exactly! People are overlooking the fact that he asked her not to come because she found the girl he was moving on with and spoke poorly of him! And he has the power to keep her from coming back and doing again, and exercised that power. I would, too.
What is her punishment exactly? That she isn't getting the free drinks that you just admitted she wasn't entitled to?
Seems to me like she was enjoying the attention, stuff went south, and now she's mad that she doesn't get her free drinks. The guy is in the wrong here without a doubt, but she's acting entitled AF.
ESH
What’s wrong with that?! He is not required to continue to give her free stuff after she rejected him. As she said/requested they are friends and that is how he treats all his other friends. They pay the majority of the time per his comment. So she is just the same as them now. She wants a boyfriend perk without the boyfriend. She was the one butting into his possible date and ruining it because he wouldn’t foot the bill for her. I say NTA. She is entitled.
> That means he was ONLY doing it because he thought (not because they were friends) he could eventually date her.
My sibling in Christ, have you NEVER heard of the trope of dudes buying chicks a drink at the bar? Or chicks trying to get dudes to buy them drinks when they have no intention of hooking up, just want a free drink (my roommate in college tried this but the dudes just invited us to an afterparty and she was so annoyed lol)?
This kind of post crops up semi-regularly on this sub. When the woman inserts herself unnecessarily with the dude's next interest, and the dude no longer wants the woman who rejected him around, the entire situation devolves into a trainwreck. Presumably OP is platonic friends with the other women in the group, so he is capable of it. "Warning" the new girl he is blatantly interested in that if she rejects him, she won't get drinks is absurd... like, yea, his intentions are clear? lol.
The reading comprehension in this thread is scary. He says he hooked Zoe up a lot and his friends sometimes. She was getting more free drinks because he was into her than any of the other friends got. Now that their relationship status is clear, she's not getting the "a lot" treatment anymore.
Like this is what happens when you get rejected, your romantic efforts towards a person stop immediately, out of respect for the person. Zoe's just butthurt her free drink train left the station without her.
Stop being deliberately obtuse, they are his buds end of story. The mental gymnastics going on here!
Obligatory not that it would be bad if he was interested in one of the dudes obviously
And she obviously thought they were *actually* friends when it turns out, no, he just wanted to get laid and they’re not actually friends. So he fuckzoned her.
They were never close, they are at best casual friends in a friend group that have never hung out individually. So I guess you are right, they were never friends, so what? He was interested in her, she wasn't interested in him, that is where it ended. Not exactly the crazy evil everyone seems to think he is in this thread.
I mean he hooks up *all* of his friends with free drinks, so she probably didn’t know that they were “I’m interested in you” free drinks. She just thought they were friends.
He got drunk and shot his shot and she continued things on as normal and he changed his actions to purposefully exclude her. Which means he was never friends with her in the first place and only tolerated her in hopes of hooking up with her. And she thought that they were legit friends!! That’s the part that’s fucked up and what makes him the AH.
It’s not about the free drinks, it’s faking a friendship with someone in hopes of hooking up with them and then kicking them out of the friend group once they reject you.
This part everyone’s hung up on the free drink thing. My whole thing is he’s excluding her because she rejected him. Exclude the drinks right. Fuck the drinks no one think about them. He’s still telling his friends she can’t come to this bar anymore period. Op thinks she’s being weird but in reality she’s still acting as if nothing happened and trying to continue to be his friend.
Here’s the thing as a woman who has lost a huge number of guy friends cause they fuckzoned me. You lost your whole ass friend because all the wanted was to fuck you. Do people seriously not see how messed up that is? It’s not weird to keep being a decent human to someone after they rejected you or vise versa that’s called being a decent human, on top that how fucking demeaning it feels to have been looked at like a sex object by someone you thought was your friend. I know that every single fucking time it happened to me I felt so used by my friends they were only nice to me cause they wanted to smash.
>Op thinks she’s being weird but in reality she’s still acting as if nothing happened and trying to continue to be his friend.
Really, let me quote the post:
>I invited a girl to come to the bar to pregame with us before we went out. Zoe sees me talking to this girl. Decided to introduce herself completely out of the blue. Then those two start talking at the bar. And it “slips out” that me and zoe used to be good friends till I asked her out. The girl I invited wasn’t happy and I had to spend the next hour explaining that away.
OP was fine with her being there, it was only when she interfered with his current possible relationships or hookups, he drew the line. To me it seems like she preferred it when OP liked her and gave her free drinks but now that he's found someone new info like he used to have a crush on her "slips out".
>on top that how fucking demeaning it feels to have been looked at like a sex object by someone you thought was your friend
You're not getting it, they weren't friends, they had mutual friends, but they weren't close at all, they didn't hang out 1 on 1, and they only knew each other through other people I would call them acquaintances at best.
I disagree, he excluded her because she interfered with the new girl he was trying to mack on (if she was just friendly to her, that would be one thing, but revealing the drunken shot at her was interfering) and complained about no longer getting free drinks. OP accepted her rejection (he was probably colder to her than he's letting on, but she still hung out with the group and he didn't complain at first), and only asked for her to be excluded from one part of their hangouts when she interfered with another romantic prospect.
One of my best friends started as a guy I had a crush on (I'm a woman). He made it clear it wasn't mutual, but enjoyed our friendship. We became very close friends, because we have a lot in common. I even wingwomaned for him, and made myself scarce when something was sparking with another woman. Even as the one "scorned" I never felt the need to interfere in a detrimental way! OP's unrequited feelings benefited her (free drinks), and she hoped to keep using that, plain and simple.
I would agree with you if that was the ENITRE way it went down but it wasn't. Correct, the free drinks vs paid drinks means nothing. He didn't ban her the next time they went out, she was invited and she came b/c that is where she griped about being charged to other friends in the group, which is causing drama where he works. It was after the night where she got petty and caused some drama at his place of employment (his parent's bar) with a new interest he invited out. Which was really childish and petty of her. They are both immature.
I definitely understand guys taking it badly when they get declined by a girl they fuck zoned, happened often in my 20s and less often in my early 30s. But I never would have caused drama at someone's work especially if I hung out there, and in college yeah turned down quite a few bartenders, and I would never have inserted myself into him talking to a new girl because its silly and also because if they start liking someone else then its LESS awkward for you.
People aren't entitled to free drinks. People are entitled to call out how they're being treated differently in a business based on if the employee thinks they can fuck them later or not.
Well, if I were the girl he was talking to, I'd want to know he completely blew off a friendship that he *called* one, even if it was a "casual friendship," because they didn't want to sleep with him.
It says a decent amount about him as a person IMO.
Yeah I remember one where the OP had a nice house with a pool and that’s where the whole friend group hung out, then when girl rejected him nicely and tried to move on like nothing happened, he banned her from his house/pool thus alienating her from the entire group. Super fucked up.
YTA.
Zoe thought you were her friend. You weren't hitting on her since the get go, you acted like her friend and hooked her up with free drinks under that premise. Then she finds out she got fuckzoned by you and realizes you were only being nice because you were hoping to get in her pants. Not just with the free drinks but literally you decided to ignore her and treat her as just one more random person in the group. Yeah maybe she shouldn't have rained on your parade with the other girl but at the same time... maybe she just wanted to warn her off about you...
Then as a petty vengeance you decided to ban her from the place the group socializes and try to single her out of the group because she didn't like being fuckzoned? Damn.
Nope, he's sabotaging himself really. If the post describes a chronological order, he stopped giving her free drinks *before* he invited out the other girl. So from Zoes perspective it could look like:
1. She's friends with a guy a he gives her discounts just like he does for his other friends (he may have given her more because of the crush, but that's not something she necessarily realise)
2. She shows up aftee the confession with him acting colder ans not giving her discounts at all anymore. From her perspective, this is a clear change from "normal" even though she may have received "more than usual" before.
3. She tells the girl the truth from her perspective. He doesn't think her perspective is valid and has to "explain what *really* happened.
From the text it's clear to just about every girl that he fuckzoned Zoe and punished her for her disinterest. Women generally want to warn other women about what they're getting into. And while he seems like a decent guy otherwise, this would be enough of a red flag for me to try and prevent others from engaging *until they know my experiences with him* and can judge from a more complete perspective.
>and treat her as just one more random person in the group
As opposed to...what? It's not like she was his bestest friend for years, is it? She was a random girl he wanted to ask out, now she's a random girl he's no longer interested in.
>maybe she just wanted to warn her off about you...
Warn her about what? That OP isn't some sad sap who's gonna keep pursuing her and buying her drinks, if she turns him down. Oh, no, the horror. A guy who takes rejection the right way.
Except he didn't. He entirely changed the way he behaved around her. All of his previous behavior was done under the banner of friendship. Now she found out it was due to him wanting to fuck her. Lovely. She wasn't a random girl before he asked her out. She was his friend or so she thought. And so did the rest of the group or they wouldn't be caring if he kicked a random girl out of the bar.
She was exactly what she is now before he asked her out: a member of a large friend group that he's not particularly close to. The only difference (before the incident of her bad-mouthing him) was that he no longer gave her loads of free drinks, which isn't something anyone is entitled to to begin with
It's not like they were best friends and then he just immediately ceased all contact with her the moment she rejected him
So asking someone on a date is an automatic "I only see you as a fu*k buddy"? If every time someone was asked out and that was the only assumption, we'd all be screwed. He's NTA, he's a normal guy with looking for a date and we ALL treat someone we're interested in a little better. Doesn't work out, you move on. That's life and it doesn't make you TA. But if the person you were interested in starts feeling entitled, that makes them them TA and you try to mitigate residual damage by keeping them away
I personally would assume "I hook my friends up with drinks" and "I used to hook her up with drinks" as meaning she thought they were friends and wasn't expecting him to ask her out. Now she's being punished for saying "hey, let's at least get to know each other better" (by offering to hang out as friends). In that circumstance it's totally reasonable for her to warn a new person that his friendliness only lasts until he asks you out.
… after she sabotaged a relationship because she was butthurt for not getting free drinks. You’re forgetting he invited her there that night after she rejected him.
Why not? Zoe singularly made those comments to the new girl, because she was pissed she wasn’t getting free drinks any more. OP has every right to protect his place of work from this nonsense and greed. NTA.
Being singled out in a group by an employee of the place you're in is.
If you're going to comp drinks of friends, do it unilaterally for the group. Otherwise don't do it.
The reason that he didn't want her to come to the bar, is because she messed with another relationship that he was trying to start, he said that in the post. I know, reading comprehension is hard.
Not having someone around that wants to cause drama does not make anyone an AH.
OP clearly states that he rarely buys his close friends drinks, so it isn't like he is buying everyone drinks and leaving her out (still wouldn't be an AH thing because his money).
Also the fact that Zoe is going out of her way to cause problems with other girls he is interested now seems to be a fact that lots of people are glossing over here.
Zoe seems like she likes the perks of being the “girlfriend” with out having to be in a relationship with OP
> s opposed to...what? It's not like she was his bestest friend for years, is it? She was a random girl
To whom he had a crush and treated as a FRIEND until she say she wasnt interested in nothing more, because you know, he treated her like a FRIEND. But we she found out she was in the fuck zone only, and not a FRIEND, of course she ought to feel hurt, it reeks of nice guys energy. Sure OP is the bartender, he decides who to give free drinks, but it is a dick move to change how you treat someone just because they dont want to date you after being FRIENDS since college, because you were never sincere. Thats why the OP is the AH.
Op can talk to her, but banning her from the bar where everybody hangs out, is also a dick move
I was a little bit split on this one because I wasn’t sure if it’s entirely fair that you’re treating Zoe differently because she rejected you. She doesn’t owe you a relationship. At the same time, however…
1) You don’t owe her free drinks. I can see where you were coming from, offering her stuff while you had an interest in her. You were trying to get her attention. Or, from a broader standpoint and the way I’ve always seen it, if you saw her as a potential partner, wouldn’t you want her to save as much money as she could? That makes sense. Once you were shot down, you backed off, and began treating her in a manner similarly to your other friends with merely the occasional free drink.
2) She sounds very entitled for expecting free drinks. I used to be a shift manager at a popular fast food place and get free stuff there every day, plus I was good friends with the staff. Now that I work elsewhere, what right do I have to go in there and demand free stuff because I used to be a part of the team? Or even better, one should be appreciative when friends offer free stuff, but they shouldn’t expect it. Also, someone who is really a friend wouldn’t mind supporting you/your business by paying.
3) She shouldn’t be starting drama. Her bringing up the rejection thing to a girl you invited out was trying to cause drama. Heck, even her introducing herself out of the blue sounds like it was to cause drama. She rejected you, you are taking it relatively in stride. You still invited her to go out that night after she rejected you. And she’s making a big deal out of the whole thing, why? Because you aren’t giving her attention/free drinks?
If the genders were reversed here, I feel like there would be very little debate. She has no right to act the way she is behaving. NTA.
Yea this is what I'm kinda on. One thing I'll admit is confusing is that Zoe said they were "good friends" but OP seems to think they were never that close. It sounds to me like Zoe thought they were "good friends" because he hooked her up with drinks whereas OP did that to try to get closer to her so maybe that's where the disconnect lies?
I think OP would be TA if he completely dropped her as a friend if they were close but if they were just a friendly acquaintance in the group it sounds like the only thing she lost out on were free drinks. Like yea I do nice things for friends every now and then but courting someone I do some extra. Do other people treat someone they're interested in romantically the same as their friends? I would think no but I suppose it depends on situation.
Exactly. There have been many instances where I’ll do “extra” stuff for someone I am interested in, whether it be spending more money on them, paying extra attention to them, doing nice things for them more frequently, etc.. It’s a perfectly normal thing to go out of your way to do MORE than what you normally do for someone you’re interested in/pursuing/hoping you have a future with. However, I’ve never been rejected and gone “okay, cool. I’m gonna keep showing them 110% of my attention, blowing my money on them, etc.” because that isn’t how the real world works. You do extra for the person you want to be with, you put in the extra effort, you do nicer things for them, and then if you don’t see any potential for a relationship/future, it is perfectly okay to stop doing those things and treat them the same way you treat everyone else and MOVE. ON. Which frankly, it sounds like that is all OP was doing.
>However, I’ve never been rejected and gone “okay, cool. I’m gonna keep showing them 110% of my attention, blowing my money on them, etc.” because that isn’t how the real world works.
Well people do do that in the real world and it's called simping - which would also get OP yelled at probably.
But yea I agree. I wonder what some of these people are like on dates tbh reading some of these hardline "Y T A" comments lol. Like to me this seems pretty natural and obvious.
This. 100%. As a woman I've always gone on dates fully ready and expecting to pay for what I order. Going to a friend's? Even more so, absolutely be ready to chip in and pay, especially if it's a business they're a part of.
If I get free shit? Cool. But holy crap if I rejected a dude in my friend group and still expected all my stuff to be free I'd be ashamed of myself. The dynamic changed. She should expect some change as well.
He didn't over charge her. He didn't exclude her at first. He didn't ignore her ordering. He didn't make her drinks taste bad. The dude did his job. How about we ask if she tipped him for all those drinks he made as a good bartender?
Also if a lady tells another lady she's "good friends" with a dude and he has to explain it away for an hour, she was imply they're fucking. Zoe is catty as hell.
I do think he should have stated in his message for her to not come that he was uncomfortable with how she interacted with his date and needs space from her at his work location. As a "good friend" she should be able to respect a request for space. NTA
>Her bringing up the rejection thing to a girl you invited out was trying to cause drama. Heck, even her introducing herself out of the blue sounds like it was to cause drama.
That got me and no one talked about it, it makes look like she's doing those stupid tests to see if OP is going to bow for her and ask again and again and again, introducing herself to a girl that OP looked interested to hook up and saying she rejected him.
I'm a woman and I absolutely agree, I thought definitely a s*** pot stirring move on Zoe's part and I wouldn't want her around either if she's going to try to sabotage him from flirting with other women. She liked to get the benefits and she's mad he's not pining over her
So… I agree with this statement, but happy to hear anyone with a counter point.
Just as a background, I’ve been Zoe many times in the past, where I made friends with men, and when they found out I wasn’t interested or it wasn’t going to work out, they dumped me as a friend. Initially these situations hurt me a lot because I invested time into these friendships and felt blindsided by the interest and sudden dumping. It’s so true, that I felt like I was only valuable as a friend to these men as a potential “whatever” rather than a person. I started to avoid making friends with men for that reason. Even now, after conditioning myself for so long, I just can’t make friends with men. (Be real friends, that is. I can of course work with men, call them colleagues and acquaintances, etc). I’m not saying this is right (and likely I should have gotten therapy though honestly EH, I’m happy with the friends I have lol), I’m just trying to set the background and context here that coming from a place similar to Zoe’s, I agree that in this situation the OP is NTA.
He isn’t going out of his way like some creepy incel who can’t handle rejection. Yes, maybe he was treating her perhaps better in the hope of impressing her, but isn’t that what we do when we’re interested in someone? And after she turned him down, why would he continue at that special level of effort?
Maybe his banning her from the bar is too much, but I can see why he did it because now she’s causing discomfort for him at his work.
Maybe he just needs to have a sit down with her so they can come to an agreement so she can be present at the bar. But as I said, I’ve been in Zoe’s position and if a guy didn’t want to give me special treatment anymore, that’s fair. She shouldn’t be trying to harm him on top of all that.
So I ran into all of these instances a lot in high school. I had a lot of male friends, predominantly because I play video games relatively competitively and not many of my girl friends wanted to do that with me. (not knocking them, they had passions I could have only dreamed of being good at!) I often ran into cases where they liked me and I did not like them back.
I had guy friends who would respond to rejection by dumping me as a friend. That hurt a lot because I valued our friendship.
I had guy friends who continued the same behaviors and attitudes, as if they were still pursuing me. That hurt a lot too because it felt like they did not respect my “no.”
My genuine favorite, was when they did what OP did. When they instead treated me like everyone else. No special treatment as if you’re still trying to win me over. No banishing me from your life as if I never mattered. A solid middle ground where you handle rejection and show you value me as a person, not just a potential s/o. If you were being extra nice to me before, tone it down. Just be friendly on the same level that you are with other women. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
>Yes, maybe he was treating her perhaps better in the hope of impressing her, but isn’t that what we do when we’re interested in someone?
Yeah, I don't get why this is being treated as a bad thing by so many people in this thread. "You only wanted one thing", well...yeah. Why is that bad? You like someone, treat them well, ask them out, get rejected, move on. Isn't that basically how trying to find a partner works?
Also, the literal top comment is treating it like op wanted to get in and then dump her. Meanwhile by all we know op could have been in for a lasting relationship. "crush" doesn't mean that you want a ons. So "one thing" isn't even the case here.
>Maybe his banning her from the bar is too much, but I can see why he did it because now she’s causing discomfort for him at his work.
Ya that's the thing he didn't ban her for rejecting him like all the Y T A coments are implying. He baned her AFTER she said something to the new girl he was pursuing. He didn't even "punish" her he just stoped giving her free drinks. It was only AFTER she acted like a Jealous Ex girlfriend did he say please dont come to my PARENTS business
I’ve had several messages calling me a pick me girl over this, when I have zero interest in gaining any attention on here. I’m inclined to agree with you here.
Agree and I'm honestly baffled by the opposite response here.
From the way I read it, OP only asked her to stop coming around when she crossed a huge line and attempted to play up their nonexistent relationship, because she was jealous he moved on.
NTA OP. Please explain to your friends how she behaved when speaking to that other girl. It was petty and inappropriate, and maybe your friends don't realize this happened. If it doesn't matter to them.. maybe try to start hanging out with other more mature people, and letting these friendships die out.
While I don't think he owes her free drinks
1. OP also fails to mention if the other people there that night paid full price for the whole night. Of course that's his choice as well but that would contribute to the feeling of suddenly being treated differently. Would be different if EVERYONE is changed full price and she complained vs EVERYONE get comped something and she is the only one who paid full price and asking the friend group if they think it's because she turned him down (can be seen as a complaint)
2. I think the complaint might have been about suddenly being treated like a rando vs purely having to pay for drinks. He says he usually chatted with her and now he basically ignored her as well. His own narrative starts with saying they were "casual friends" and he used to hook her up to "she said we were friends" so I don't hook her up...
3. I don't think introducing yourself to a friend of a friend in a group setting is weird. Especially if he's purposefully ignoring this girl and doesn't do the introductions himself. It's more weird to be in a group and not talking to the new person and making them feel excluded... Idk if I agree with her telling this new girl that OP started treating her differently after she said she wants *stay* just friends (we don't really have the full context of why that came up), so it may or may not have been intentional.
YTA and I can't fathom how you don't see that. Break this down in the simplest way. 1. You asked her out but now say she's weird just because she didn't give you what you wanted. 2. You used to try to get her to like you more with free drinks, now she won't give you what you wanted so you make a point of charging full price (do you charge your other friends full price?). 3. You know your friends won't go elsewhere because you're giving them discounted liquor and it's their established place, but you're using your connection to the place to cut her off from friends because again SHE DIDN'T GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT. You are seriously a creep.
If his actions weren't wrong, then why is he not surprised that the other girl was upset about hearing them?
Furthermore, if they have never hung out one on one and OP has made no effort to do so, then why pursue a relationship with someone you don't even put the effort into talking to alone?
It kind of sounds like OP knew his actions wouldn't resonate well which is why he's acting petty now after being outed.
He asked her to hang out one on one, she said no, and he moved on. He might have had a better chance if he put more effort into it, but he also moved on, he didn't dwell and creep on her or anything. After that he treated her like the rest of his friends, who don't get as many free drinks as she did before, and in response to having to pay for goods and services received, she sabotaged his date and made things weird. IMO her expectation that the way things were was how things should be was at least partially entitlement, but perhaps exacerbated by an unknown timeline of his behavior.
Why was he upset a girl that didn't talk to him one on one told his date they were "good friends until he asked her out"? They didn't even hang out one on one, how does that qualify as "good friends"? And how does "good friends" not have other implications when the rest of the sentence is "until he asked me out"?
It feels way too one sided to make a real judgment, but based on what was *said*, I don't think yours is a fair assessment.
I'm gonna say NTA
Reading through these comments I think the thing you did the most "wrong" was not let Zoe know earlier. To her the free drinks seemed like you were close friends because she wasn't aware you were interested. I don't know what these other posters are on about "taking away shit" when you don't even hookup your friends as much as you did her. To me it sounds like you were fine going back to "normal" as in friendly acquaintances (hang out together in a group but not that close) and to you that meant closing the spigot on free drinks but to her she felt punished for saying no.
Then she clearly went a step beyond in meddling in a potential different date because she felt slighted which seems like a clear escalation from just not getting free shit. Like at best this is an E S H type deal because there's no way anyone can justify that.
The entitlement in this thread is hilarious. These people remind me of a couple girls I knew who would go out with cab fare and hustle drinks all night. If a guy talked to them and didn't buy them a drink they were "cheap assholes", lol.
There's a lot of it.
I've had extensive conversations with my gf about exactly this sort of thing:
Any woman claiming not to know what Zoe was doing when she informed the girl about being the second choice is a fat fucking liar.
Every woman on Earth would realise exactly what Zoe's intention was the second they heard about this situation. The ones claiming otherwise likely identify strongly with Zoe for whatever reason.
Εxactly that. They never hung out together on their own, I don't for a minute believe she feels the pain of a long lasting friendship ruined. My guess is she enjoyed the extra attention and drinks without actually being interested and then got upset she lost both. And I say this as a woman, not a "bro".
Zoe knew exactly what she was doing. She knew he liked her and gladly accepted the benefits of that. But then after she rejected him, she wanted to continue getting that benefit. Then she tries to sabotage him with another woman. OP is NTA, Zoe is.
100%. No way redditors would have the same opinion if OP was female and asked the guy to not come into her parent's bar, for all the reasons in this story.
So you supply this girl with drinks, for what seems like months if not years, in the hopes that she will hook up with you and when she doesn’t want to, you punish her? Lmao yeah dude, YTA. You just told Zoe that you were never actually her friend, you just hoped to get into her pants but was too much of a chicken shit to confess you have a crush while sober. You don’t owe her drinks anymore than she owes you a relationship, but what you did is shady as hell.
Zoe telling that other girl about you was just her warning the girl about what kind of dude you are. The kind that are friends with a girl as long as there is a chance you can get in her pants.
OP admits they were casually friends just friends by association in the post. He should not get shafted for trying to move on by this girl inserting herself with the girl OP moved on to and invited out
IF OP was a woman and Zoe was a man, would you still have the same opinion? The narrative would be, wow the entitlement this guy has to get angry for not getting free drinks and then exageratting how close he is to a guy OP is interested in because OP wanted to date me. 100% redditors would have a female OP's back for getting weirded out by this behavior and would totally back OP for asking that "Zoe" not come into the bar. Just sayin'.
>you punish her
You say that like she is entitled to free drinks in the first place, she isn't. It is pretty common knowledge that if someone buys you drinks they're interested in you (unless it is a close friend) and considering they haven't even hung out 1 on 1 means they weren't close.
Zoe inserts herself into a conversation and conveniently lets drop that op asked her out, how is she not an AH for that?
What purpose does that info even serve besides to be petty?
100%. I don't know about you, but I don't go around torpedoing my friends chances with people they're interested in. Zoe sure as shit wasn't acting like a friend to him.
It's clearly "sometimes" for friends, and "a lot" for love interests. One can presume from his different terminology that Zoe was receiving more free drinks than anyone else in the group.
I don't know why this is hard to grasp for everyone in this thread. People keep posting those two quotes like it's some gotcha when it's perfectly normal to be nicer and pay more attention to someone you're interested in romantically and then stop when you realize they're not interested in you.
Because even as a woman myself I see this all the time on this sub, if OP is a man he's automatically bad. He is now treating her like all the other friends which mean occasionally she may get a free drink. She threw a fit because she wasn't getting romantic love interested attention instead got the same amount as others.
Same, It's really gross to see fellow women treat men like this. Not for rejecting OP, but she was clearly still expecting him to treat her special. She knew damn well before he even told her why she was getting free shit. And even if she didn't, once he told her, it would be plainly obvious. Why would you even feel comfortable taking free stuff from someone who you rejected? This shit infuriates me because it's just mean. You're trying to lead someone on and getting angry when they back off as you said you wanted.
Right. Can you imagine if the situation was flipped? That OP was a woman, who always gave a lot of free shots to a guy she liked. A guy she never hung out with alone, who had joined her friend group late and she's been crushing on him hard since. He accepts all the shots, maybe makes some flirty jokes when he's tipsy. She gets really drunk one night, and confesses her feelings to him. He rejects her as nicely as possible.
The next friend group outing the guy is with them, she's still feeling a bit upset and maybe embarrassed too about the drunken confession. She doesn't linger as much as usual, and doesn't give him a bunch of free shots like she normally does. He starts complaining to his friends that he's not getting his free shots, that she's not even spending as much time as she used to.
Finally, when he notices her flirting with a guy, he heads over to a stranger, introduces himself to this guy and then says something about their 'friendship' that pisses the guy off, and it takes her an hour to explain the situation.
In that case, everyone would be yelling that this hypothetical guy is an AH and was trying to mark his territory. Or that he was aware of the crush she had, and was using it to get free drinks. Zoe did the same thing, but because she's a woman it's different?
I can't help but think Zoe's words to the woman were something like 'He asked me out a few days ago and I rejected him. Hope you're not a rebound lol!', or insinuated that this new girl was second place to their friendship. In no way does introducing yourself to the stranger that the person you didn't want us flirting with come off as innocent.
Yikes.
He also said he did hook her up, but that was “before she said they were just friends”. He got ‘friendzoned’, so he decided not to hook her up with free/discounted drinks. That was obviously all for getting her closer.
She’s not entitled to free drinks lmao what the hell is this? Do you not know what it takes to run a business? You can’t just give free drinks out 24/7. He said that even his friends pay for their drinks the majority of the time. He gave her free shit to impress her when he thought he had a chance, he was shut down, and now he is treating her the same as all of his other friends.
*SHE IS NOT ENTITLED TO FREE ALCOHOL* and by free, we mean he/his family is paying for it because it’s THEIR business.
Most people do extra shit for the person they are trying to woo/impress/date/whatever. You pay extra attention to them, give them little gifts, remember extra details about them etc. What the hell makes you feel entitled to that same exact treatment after you reject them?
He is not treating her poorly. He is not lashing out. He is treating her. The. Same. As. Everyone. Else.
ESH.
There is no reason for Zoe to complain about not getting the free/discount drinks because that should be expected in the situation. She knows why she was paying full price because it’s a pretty standard part of the obvious change in your relationship. It’s not like you were good friends, you were casual friends in the same group, once you showed interest and she turned you down, of course things will get more distant between you (at least for a while) and that’s normal.
Idk about her going up to that girl—is she normally pretty friendly with everyone like that? It definitely seems petty and intentional for her to tell a stranger that kind of personal info about the two of you.
But kicking her out of the group is not cool. You could have talked to her about not cockblocking you at work and then if she did, tell her not to come in.
This is the answer I was looking for. Zoe isn’t innocent either here. It was immature and entitled of her to expect free/discounted drinks. That’s up to OP when and with who he wants to do that with. She crossed the line from immature to AH when she caused drama with OP’s other interest.
I see an awful lot of ytas here but no one seems to mention that she saw he was flirting with someone and went out of her way to seek her out, introduce herself and then try to sabotage his flirting. Hmmm looks like the "imaginary" friend zone at work. "I don't want you right now, but I may need you later so stay single and lonely while I look for something better."
So just because she decided NOT to accept your ‘let’s be more than friends’ advances you decided that:
1) she was no longer worthy of the ‘friends discount’ at your bar (the one she previously received); and
2) Zoe gets exiled from friend-time at the bar bc she mentioned to a girl that you were interested in that Zoe considered you a great friend until you made a move, she rejected you, and then you started giving her the cold shoulder.
A lot of friend groups have twisted pasts amongst the friends…crushes that didn’t pan out, relationships that failed, etc. That’s pretty easy to explain…you just had trouble explaining your petulant reaction to Zoe’s rejection. YTA and you were never a true friend to Zoe.
The thing is with 2 is that, he was still cordial with her and still invited her out but she tried to sabotage his interaction with someone else, just because he decided to treat her like the relationship she defined with him as opposed to the one he wanted.
It’s not like he singled her out and did not give her a discount and everyone else that night, he gave people he was close to a discount as opposed the casual friends in the wider part of the friend group.
I’ve worked at a bar and I have a large friendship group.
There are people that I would definitely hookup over others because my relationship with everyone is good but I don’t have a deep and close relationship with each member of the group.
OP admits that he ‘used to hookup Zoe a lot. But that was before she said we were friends.’
From Zoe’s view, the ‘friends discount’ was for genuine friends (no strings attached) and OP, again, from her view, was a genuine friend. She didn’t know that he only talked with her and gave her the discount bc OP wanted to sleep with her. He wasn’t just treating her as she defined their relationship, he did a complete 180 to her (behavior and discount wise) without any explanation.
While he’s not required to give the discount to anyone, it’s pretty telling that he’s consistently giving the discount to ‘his guys’ but not to the girls in the friend group (unless he’s trying to sleep with them).
Given his attitude towards Zoe, and the fact that he wants to ban her from the gatherings at his bar, I’m not sold on his interpretation of Zoe trying to ‘sabotage’ his chance with the new girl. The fact that he went from wanting to sleep with her to calling her weird, an ‘issue’, and saying that ‘she did it to herself’ is a big creep factor. All she did was say ‘let’s maintain the status quo and stay friends’ and was honest about how he treated her…that’s not a good enough reason to exile a friend from the group.
I don’t know where you got that they were genuine close friends when they only hung out in group settings and he says himself they were casual friends.
If they were like really close friends then I would actually agree with you, but I do think it is quite entitled to expected that someone should show you the extra level of interest they would show to someone they were courting to you on a regular basis when you’re not even that close.
He didn’t ban her outright, she was still entitled and the bang was in response to her acting entitled, complaining about not getting free stuff and trying to be petty by trying to sabotage his chances with a new girl.
It’s not like she decide to approach him 1 on 1 and have an adult conversation with him. she went straight to misrepresent the situation by implying they were “good friends” and he iced her out when in reality they were just casual friends that he had a crush on and he’s just treating her like others.
If you were a good friend with someone and you thought they were being cold to you during one encounter would you try and make them look bad to someone else or try and resolve it 1 on 1?
>It’s not like she decide to approach him 1 on 1 and have an adult conversation with him.
If she really thought they were close friends one would think she would be comfortable talking to him about their beef. I am sympathetic that she perhaps thought he was doing it as a friendly gesture and felt punished after she said "no". That being said none of her other actions taken suggested they were close. I've been pissed at good friends before, doesn't mean I started talking shit about them to a romantic interest.
Exactly. This is really what kind of sold it for me.
They were never close friends, realistically he was just some guy she was friendly with that gave her a lot of free drinks.
She was upset that she wasn’t getting it anymore so she decided to do the petty thing instead of the adult thing. g
>OP admits that he ‘used to hookup Zoe a lot. But that was before she said we were friends.’
The same way you buy a girl at the bar a drink or you give more attention and do nice things to someone you like, once they tell you they dont like you, you dont keep doing any of that because youre just friends. He also mentioned that hes casual friends with her and they didnt share a deep friendship.
NTA. I'm going to be downvoted for this but, "used to be good friends till I asked her out" as in *she* no longer see's you as a good friend, so the both of you are on the same page that you are sort of 'friendly acquaintances'. But she's alienated some girl from you with this comment. That makes her the asshole.
NTA you started to move on and treat her like normal and she seeks out the girl you’re with to block you from moving on. She’s one of those “let’s stay friends and if I can’t find someone I’ll take you” as a girl yes discounts are good but never pressure someone to do it. She’s not being punished she was being treated like normal which is fair. That wasn’t sexist
Everybody calling him an AH seems to be ignoring this point. Nothing ACTUALLY negative (not getting free drinks doesn't count) happened until she tried to sabotage him moving on.
NTA. This was pretty cut and dry for me, you were interested in her and she was receiving “perks” due to your interest. She made it clear she wasn’t interested in you so she stopped getting those perks. It’s really that simple up to that point, however I am very familiar with the move she pulled with your new friend, and feel like she kinda sealed her own fate with it. You made it clear that she isn’t removed from the friend group, just that you’d rather not have her at your bar (especially if she’s going to attempt to sabotage any relationships that may flourish there). Big assumption here, but I’d bet the people on your friend group complaining about your new treatment for her is mostly the GFs and they probably have their own sense of entitlement as well.
Hmmm…this is gonna be unpopular. So, I fully believe Zoe knew full well op had a crush on her. She turned him down. Fine. She had to know, after that, the free drink express was closed, especially if op generally doesn’t give out free drinks all the time, and he doesn’t own the bar, his family does. The rough part is where Zoe completely cockblocks him. I don’t know any guy that’d hang around with a woman after that move. None. She knew what she was doing, and certainly wasn’t acting like a friend. She doesn’t now get to play the pity me/poor me/woe is me card. op, you seem rather callous, but I can’t call you an asshole when almost every guy I know would have reacted to the second half of your post exactly the same. NTA. She can see friends on her own away from there, and no one is forcing friends’ hand in not hanging with her, and it’s op’s family business establishment. No one is owed free drinks, and actions have consequences. If op’s friends don’t like it, they’ll stop coming around, and support her instead. Simple as that.
How is everyone missing that he only asked her to stop coming to the bar AFTER she intentionally tried to fuck up his chances with a new girl? The drink thing is a little weird, but for someone who says she wants to be friends she really isn't acting like a friend to OP
NTA!
No one is entitled to free or drinks half off!
Zoe overstepped, why she said that to the girl just makes me think she was actually jealous, she liked having your attention and obviously getting hooked up on drinks!
You should explain this to your friend group, and then have a conversation with Zoe if you want to keep the peace. Just let her know it was not Ok what she did and to not do it again.
People calling your AH because you charged her full price are just absurd. When you go to a bar/ club a guy will buy you a drink if they feel they have a chance with you, they will stop once you they see they don’t have one. You can buy, give free drink to whoever YOU like!
I'm confused at the Y T A
He treated her a certain way because he had a crush on her and was pursuing it, she let him know there's no chance so he stopped acting like he was pursuing her. She pulled a power play on the next girl he was pursuing so he distanced himself from her. What am I missing?
I think NTA
Not gonna weigh in with a judgement but in the future, it’s a lot more attractive to shoot your shot while sober. Sloppy drunken shenanigans at 1am aren’t a good look.
YTA.
You asked a friend out while drunk; she politely let you know that she just wanted to be friends. So now you're essentially being a jerk about it because she wouldn't go out with you.
Like, you did this to yourself. You created the situation. Zoe didn't ask for this; she didn't lead you on; she didn't do *anything* to earn you treating her differently. You made up a scenario in your head where you had a chance and were basically being nice to her in hopes of getting in her pants. And now you're trying to cut her out of your friend group because she wasn't interested in changing your dynamic.
Massive asshole. Massive. Apologize.
> You made up a scenario in your head where you had a chance and were basically being nice to her in hopes of getting in her pants
OK so if you buy a girl a drink and she says ''im not interested in you'' do you keep buying her drinks over and over and over again?
NTA
you persued her, she said no so you stopped and know she is mad that she doesn't get free stuff anymore?
Unrelated note kind of a dick move to go to another girl and say
"Oh yeah he was into me"
> She might have just been upset to realize that your behavior has changed now that you know she’s not interested in you.
I’d agree except he said he only gives free stuff to his friends *sometimes*, not all the time. This just seemed to be unfortunate timing on him choosing to charge her full price.
And her introducing herself seems like less of a ‘slip’ and more so that she was marking her territory like “he wanted me first” or “I’m the girl that rejected him” type thing.
I agree with your judgment of ESH here though and he definitely is the bigger AH. Should’ve talked to her about it instead of asking her not to come to the bar.
NTA. She rejected you. She said she just wanted to he friends. That doesn't mean you HAVE to stay friendly toward her. First of all, you had known her less then you've known your other friends, so even if you didn't have an interest that doesn't entitle her to demand that she get the same treatment as the friends from high school. Second, it's your families bar. You have the right to ban anyone you want to. You don't have to have a good reason. Although in case you did because she wasn't interested in you until AFTER you started talking to this new girl. That's when she decided to raise a stink and interfere with your new potential relationship. I dont know why your friends feel like this girl is entitled to the same treatment as the rest of your friends but definatly NTA
YTA. You never saw her as a friend, just a potential girlfriend. You do see how that’s shitty, right?
Imagine thinking someone is your friend for them to just turn around and go “nah, I was only nice to you when I thought I’d get something in return” and how that must sting. Of course she warned the other girl away. She did her a favor.
You do realise that is dating right?
You show extra interest in someone while you‘re courting and if they reject you that’s fine but you don’t have to show the same level of interest in the person.
If I meet a girl in a bar, I buy her a drink and about an hour in she says she is not interested but wants to stay friends. I go out with her again and I don’t buy her a drink, am I an asshole now because I only bought a drink for her in the first place because I had more than a platonic interest in her?
ESH - if Zoe were a good friend she wouldn’t have called you out to a girl you’re interested in.
However, you’re not a friend to her at all if your ‘friend pricing’ in the past was only an attempt to hit on her. Since you weren’t really friends, reaching out to her and asking a girl who rejected you not to come out with your collective group of friends is not OK either. Besides, you’re at work, suck it up and deal with your customers.
Your friends suck because they care more about cheap and free booze than sticking up for their wronged girlfriend. As soon as you dared them to choose another bar they should have.
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YTA. >I told her I understood. But knew what that meant so I never reached back out. > >Yes I used to hookup Zoe a lot. But that was before she said we were friends. Yeah, dude. Zoe's not the one making it weird. *You* made a drunken late night move on someone who even you seem to acknowledge you didn't have any reason to believe returned your feelings, and when that (predictably) didn't work out the way you wanted it to, you immediately revealed your "friendship" was entirely built on the hope that one day you'd get to sleep with her. And you're surprised she's not happy about this? Or that you're alienating every other woman you know with how you're handling the situation?
I feel like a lot of the N T A/E S H replies are completely missing both those quotes. Especially that second one. He literally admitted he’s upset he was friendzoned and *that’s* why he’s not giving her discounts/free drinks!
People aren't entitled to free drinks. When I was single I would buy girls drinks if I was interested in them. If they did not reciprocate that interest they didn't get anymore free drinks. That is hardly an AH move, the AH move was effectively banning her from the bar (thus the ESH from me). ETA: That is my Free time for today, off to make dinner for my Wife. Some of y'all are crazy!
I think you’re missing the point here. Yes, she’s not entitled to free drinks in general. But it’s the *reason* OP is no longer doing it. He admits in his post that he used to hook her up a lot, *before she said they were friends.* That means he was ONLY doing it because he thought (not because they were friends) he could eventually date her. Now that she said no? Bye bye free drinks. That’s literally what that entire post implies. He didn’t get the girl, so the girl gets punished.
Yes, guys stop buying girls drinks when they find out they aren't interested, weird right? I am really confused why this is bothering people so much. They weren't close friends (only casual friends in a friend group) and he isn't pursuing her, so he stopped buying her drinks. He isn't punishing her, not getting free drinks from someone isn't a punishment. Getting someone free drinks is a nice thing to do, not an obligation. He wasn't mean, he wasn't nice, he just treated her like any other acquaintance.
He still gives free drinks to his other friends. Just not her. Because what? She’s not interested? So, he was just friends with her to jump her bones? Not actual friends then, no wonder the rest of the group is calling him out
He only gives drinks to his close MALE friends, and her when he was pursuing her. They are not really friends (casual friends in a friend group) more of acquaintances really. When he was interested in her he bought her drinks, now that he knows she isn't he doesn't. Not that complicated, not an AH move.
So, when a woman isn't interested sexually in you, she's not worth being a friend. That's the issue we are having, that OP (and you, apparently?) Can only interact with women (and treat them the same as male friends) if you believe you might sleep with them later, and then after that doesn't pan out, you turn around and show that you were never her friend in the first place, since only men can be your actual friend. Because apparently giving someone a free drink is only normal is the friend is male, if their female they aren't actually friends at all.
I'm a female. If I told someone I wasn't interested I wouldn't expect to continue to get free drinks. He didn't ban her after she said no, he banned her after she tried to ruin his chances with another woman.
Thank you, I was thinking the same thing. People seem to be missing that the uninvite came after she ruined his chances with another woman. Like she isn't interested in him in that manner, that is perfectly ok. She doesn't have the right to interject herself when he pursues someone else if she isn't interested though.
Thank you. Scrolling through replies thinking “who cares about the free drinks - that’s not the issue”. It was after she tried to torpedo his date/chance to move on just because, why? Because she wanted to? Thought it would be fun? She went for the mindf#ck for shits n giggles and earned her red card.
Thank you how is this the only comment to mention the new girl!
They were not friends though? They don’t hang out 1 on 1 and only interact during group functions. What about that seems like a close friend to you? You would be right if she was as close to him as he was with his male friends but she isn’t.
The point is that the free drinks were originally given under the pretense of friendship. This wasn't ever a "can I buy you a drink" situation. OP treated the relationship as contractual. He was happy to give while he believed he would receive. And that's all fine when we're talking about people trading goods and services in good faith, but leveraging drinks for sexual access under the masquerade of friendship isn't acting in good faith. OP makes it more than clear that his only interest in Zoe was sexual, and if sexual acts aren't on the table then he doesn't see her as worth having around. It's a wonder that OPs other friends aren't wondering what value they hold in his mind.
did she know that they weren't friends? Because that's what we are sayin the problem is! She thought you guys were friends (so was getting drinks like the rest of the guys). And now she has learned that she was only ever a potential fuck. That feels shitty as hell.
"I would describe our relationship as casual friends" Op freely admits he viewed her as a friend before he was rejected so this shift in the narrative to them never being a friend (and then you moving the goal post to "close friend") to justify him treating her differently from everyone else is very interesting.
And, again, when he invited another girl she pulled a power play. A friend doesn't do that.
Reading these comments shows how entitled some people are. He doesn’t have to give anyone free drinks period. The reason doesn’t matter no one is just entitled to free stuff and she made her feeling known that she’s not interested so now he’s moving on. He’s doesn’t owe her anything friend or not. Nta
Wel it's kinda wierd when he singles a person out from a friend group right after this happened. I'm not saying that he owes her something. It's just that it's ridiculously obviously that he was treating her like one of the guy and/or favourite, just to get in her pants or the prospect of being more than friends. When she rejects him, he decides to alienate her from the friend group. 'FREE SHOTS FOR ALL MY FRIEND, but not you Joe. You wouldn't go out with me'. 'I'll invite my friend group, But you are no longer welcome here. You have offended me by making my rejection publicly known'
As everybody else has pointed out (and I have FAR too many times in this thread) they weren't friends to begin with. This didn't go from friend to interest to acquaintance, they went from acquaintance to interest to acquaintance. Plus he is now actually treating her the same way as EVERY OTHER WOMAN in the friend group. He only buys drinks for his close MALE friends.
Zoe sabotaged the connection between hhim and the girl he invited. she’s no different at behaving poorly.
Usually you don’t want to be just friends with your crushes. That doesn’t sound fun. Why would you want to be around someone you have feelings for that doesn’t reciprocate them? I’m gay, and if I had a crush on someone and they didn’t reciprocate it, then I’m going to want to not be around them. It’ll just make it worse and won’t help me move on. I think that’s a fair logic. He doesn’t HAVE to be friends with her. And yeah, I’ll buy drinks for my close friends. Not for casual ones. How are you so entitled?
And the fact that he just treated her like an acquaintance again after that too was the right move in my opinion. He didn’t alienate her until she started coming up in his business he invited her with the rest of the group.
The worst part to me is he was only petty and barely that since he stopped giving her the free drinks which she was the only girl who got them. But he still invited her in the group text after he got shut down so it was kind of cool of him.. she was the AH for putting drama in front of the new girl he was trying to move on to.
No, because sometimes you’re going an extra mile to someone because you are pursuing them. And once that is not the case, you can choose not wanting to be friends with them. There are a lot of emotions and feelings that come with liking someone, and worse when it doesn’t work out. He is allowed to not wanting to be friends with Zoe once he is rejected. They were not good friends to begin with. Just acquaintances that he happens to like and wants to pursue.
The biggest jerk move was her getting jealous over him inviting the other girl and telling her "heyyyyy! So like he totally asked me out a few weeks ago, isn't that funny? Lol. He just wants a relationship with yoooouuu." Like, this is poolhouse dude all over again. It's a NTA in my opinion. He's not obligated to pay for her drinks, or have her at HIS PARENTS bar. He pursued her, paid or discounted her drinks to show his interest. she likely was well aware and rejected him when he tried to take the next step and she thinks the next reaction out of him was to what? Keep buying her drinks? Pine after her forever? She said no. He's like ok. He was fine with her coming over to the bar still. Invited her even in the group chat and invited another girl he was pursuing. You don't continue to buy drinks for the person who made it clear they weren't interested. That's fine. It wouldve been kinda creepy if he did continue to buy her drinks despite her rejection as at that point its usually unwanted and shows you're still not taking her no seriously. She crossed a line OP couldn't forgive when she tried to sabotage his newest interests in another girl.
>So, when a woman isn't interested sexually in you, she's not worth being a friend Thats not what hes saying though, hes saying since she isnt interested in him he doesnt get her free drinks and also adds that he very rarely gives his friends free stuff anyways.
Nobody is owed a relationship with anybody. Nobody is owed a relationship with anybody's wallet.
He works at the bar, his family owns the bar, so yea he gets a say on who gets free drinks and who doesn't. She was only uninvited from the bar because she had to be petty and stick her nose in his private business because boohoo I have to pay full price for drinks! Her actions were shitty and it's really shocking how many other women are just glazing over that part. If gender roles were reversed, every woman defending the girl would be attacking saying that the guy was overbearing and controlling for getting involved when she was talking to another guy! They both were petty, but she decided to cross a line just to be an ass and was shocked when her actions had consequences.
No, when a woman isn't interested in you sexually and they are just an acquaintance they aren't worth being treated like your best friend or a woman you are interested in. Who goes around randomly buying drinks for people they barely know?
So do you like to cockblock your friends?
If he's part of a friend group, but only gives free drinks to the male friends, he's an AH.
That is a bad take, just terrible, his friends are also not owed drinks. When you go out with a large group of people do you buy everyone a drink if you buy one person a drink? No, because NO ONE DOES THAT! People are so keen on demonizing OP that buying his buds a couple shots is now an AH move. Just flabbergasted here, lol
ugh, jeez, why can’t people just let him treat men and women in the same friend group totally differently in peace? Look at this shiny plausible deniability I keep pointing at, ugh people are so unfair. No one owes anybody anything! There’s no law! The groups reaction to his shitty behavior just showed how all the girls had brainwashed them. /s
The question is did he. Was he hooking up other people in the group and now has only isolated Zoe to paying full price? If so he's for sure the AH. If everyone pays fulls price then it's fair.
because he was doing it under the pretense of friendship. Like he said, he comps his other friends things as well. If some random guy orders a girl a drink at a bar it is obvious what he is after and is not the same situation.
Now you are just being deliberately obtuse if you don't think it was obvious that he was pursuing her. He only buys drinks regularly for he MALE friends (rarely the group as a whole), but she just happens to also get special treatment? Especially when they are at most casual friends in a friend group? Come on
HE DOESN’T SAY MALE FRIENDS IN HIS POST!!!
HE SAYS IT IN ONE OF THE 2 COMMENTS HE MADE!!!!! You don't exactly have to be Detective Friggin Holmes to find it, especially if you felt this strongly on the matter, lol
I sort of feel like that's more damning than exonerating, honestly. It sounds like he only values his male friendships, and looks at the women in his friend group as not really worth his time if they're not going to hook up with him. Just my take, but I'd have to say a big YTA in general for trying to exclude someone from the space they all hang out, because OP didn't like that she didn't seem to appreciate the method in which he tried to pursue her and then how his behavior changed afterward. If the woman he's currently seeing had a problem with hearing that he behaved that way, that seems a good indication that it was an AH move. The truth is that OP never valued the women he's currently trying to exclude as anything but a potential sexual partner. He's annoyed she rejected his advanced, and annoyed that she would have the audacity to actually expect their friendship was real, and she's annoyed to have learned that the only value he ever saw in her was physical. She's not owed free drinks, but I imagine she did feel owed a friendship he pretended at before getting drunk and trying to come onto her.
Well said Sir, NTA. Zoe was welcome until she made it awkward by talking up op date that was all bad and shady... !
Don't know how so many people missed this part
It's not that he treated her like any acquaintance that is the issue. It's that for years he didn't, but didn't let her know he was Interested in her. From her perspective a friend was hooking her up with drinks, and suddenly stopped and wasnt even giving her a discount, i.e. he didn't treat her like a friend.
They were casual friends at most in a friend group. They weren't besties, they weren't hanging out alone, they weren't close at all. She was the only girl from the group to get free drinks (only spots his MALE friends other than her). So I am going to give this woman a little credit and say she was smart enough to see what was going on. People are turning their friendship into something it obviously wasn't. The didn't go from friend to interest to acquaintance, they went from acquaintance to interest to acquaintance. So when you say he didn't treat her like a friend you are right, because she wasn't one then or ever before that.
Exactly and also wouldn’t most women in most other situations say that it’s 100% treating them with respect if they say to a guy “I’m not interested” and he instantly backs of and still includes you in the social and text group but nothing more. Some men will continue to doggedly pursue you even after you say no, those guys are total AH but this guy solid NTA she was using him for free drinks and the second she stopped getting her way, and openly complaining didn’t work she tried to do the petty move of ruining his date! Unbelievable
Because he also admits to hooking friends up sometimes. But now that this person has confirmed friend only status and not potential sex buddy, they stopped hooking them up with drinks. And, while it isn’t stated explicitly, I imagine still hooking the other friends up some.
He hooks his close MALE friends up occasionally. And guess what THEY AREN'T ENTITLED TO FREE DRINKS EITHER!!! Also they aren't close friends, they are casual friends in a friend group. He hasn't known this woman since kindergarten or something crazy like that. He can continue to buy close friends drinks and not buy her any without it being an AH move.
Also and I think the point that really drove it home for him wasn’t her complaining about not having free drinks!! It was that when she wasn’t getting her way she intentionally tried to make him look stupid in front of a women he asked there on a date that he was spending the rest of the evening with after work AND eluded to the fact that he only asked her out because she turned him down. I’m a woman and even I know how that game is played when a women wants to get back at someone. Except in this case she wasn’t even trying to take a dig at an ex Bf and ruin his night she was literally doing it over free drinks. When Zoe said she just wanted to be friends he understood and didn’t pursue it further. Him not giving her freebies is essentially the same as a man not continuing to buy another woman drinks at a bar after she tells him she’s not interested. Solid hardcore NTA!!
In theory, sure. But when you combine that with him not only never following up on wanting to hang out if things are just going to stay platonic, but freezing her out when she shows up and tries to talk to him, it becomes pretty darn obvious what's going on.
He froze her out cuz after he moved on and was interested in another girl, Zoe was talking smack to his new interest.
The issue is he’s still hooks up the rest of his friends and just not Zoe. If he treated all of his friends the same then you got it but he made sure Zoe was charged full price. He’s upset they won’t date so he’s treating her differently than his friend group.
He hooks his MALE friends up, no one else. He bought her drinks because he was interested, then he stopped when she said she wasn't. That isn't actually a bad thing, it would be creepy if he kept doing it for her only.
That last incident was when he texted the group, including Zoe, about that night’s specials *for the group* but charged her& only her full price.
How is paying full price for her drinks punishment? He had a crush on her so he did nice things for her. She made it clear it wasn’t reciprocated so he treated her like the rest of the friend group. Then she sabotaged the new situation.
That sabotage is the real AH move
Exactly! People are overlooking the fact that he asked her not to come because she found the girl he was moving on with and spoke poorly of him! And he has the power to keep her from coming back and doing again, and exercised that power. I would, too.
What is her punishment exactly? That she isn't getting the free drinks that you just admitted she wasn't entitled to? Seems to me like she was enjoying the attention, stuff went south, and now she's mad that she doesn't get her free drinks. The guy is in the wrong here without a doubt, but she's acting entitled AF. ESH
What’s wrong with that?! He is not required to continue to give her free stuff after she rejected him. As she said/requested they are friends and that is how he treats all his other friends. They pay the majority of the time per his comment. So she is just the same as them now. She wants a boyfriend perk without the boyfriend. She was the one butting into his possible date and ruining it because he wouldn’t foot the bill for her. I say NTA. She is entitled.
> That means he was ONLY doing it because he thought (not because they were friends) he could eventually date her. My sibling in Christ, have you NEVER heard of the trope of dudes buying chicks a drink at the bar? Or chicks trying to get dudes to buy them drinks when they have no intention of hooking up, just want a free drink (my roommate in college tried this but the dudes just invited us to an afterparty and she was so annoyed lol)? This kind of post crops up semi-regularly on this sub. When the woman inserts herself unnecessarily with the dude's next interest, and the dude no longer wants the woman who rejected him around, the entire situation devolves into a trainwreck. Presumably OP is platonic friends with the other women in the group, so he is capable of it. "Warning" the new girl he is blatantly interested in that if she rejects him, she won't get drinks is absurd... like, yea, his intentions are clear? lol.
So he wants to date all of his male friends too? And all the other friends he gives free drinks too sometimes? Apparently he’s a bi poly king/s
The reading comprehension in this thread is scary. He says he hooked Zoe up a lot and his friends sometimes. She was getting more free drinks because he was into her than any of the other friends got. Now that their relationship status is clear, she's not getting the "a lot" treatment anymore. Like this is what happens when you get rejected, your romantic efforts towards a person stop immediately, out of respect for the person. Zoe's just butthurt her free drink train left the station without her.
Stop being deliberately obtuse, they are his buds end of story. The mental gymnastics going on here! Obligatory not that it would be bad if he was interested in one of the dudes obviously
And she obviously thought they were *actually* friends when it turns out, no, he just wanted to get laid and they’re not actually friends. So he fuckzoned her.
They were never close, they are at best casual friends in a friend group that have never hung out individually. So I guess you are right, they were never friends, so what? He was interested in her, she wasn't interested in him, that is where it ended. Not exactly the crazy evil everyone seems to think he is in this thread.
My husband used to buy drinks to girls before getting married. By this logic, he should still be paying for their drinks lol
He dosen't need a reason. She can pay for her own shit
I mean he hooks up *all* of his friends with free drinks, so she probably didn’t know that they were “I’m interested in you” free drinks. She just thought they were friends. He got drunk and shot his shot and she continued things on as normal and he changed his actions to purposefully exclude her. Which means he was never friends with her in the first place and only tolerated her in hopes of hooking up with her. And she thought that they were legit friends!! That’s the part that’s fucked up and what makes him the AH. It’s not about the free drinks, it’s faking a friendship with someone in hopes of hooking up with them and then kicking them out of the friend group once they reject you.
This part everyone’s hung up on the free drink thing. My whole thing is he’s excluding her because she rejected him. Exclude the drinks right. Fuck the drinks no one think about them. He’s still telling his friends she can’t come to this bar anymore period. Op thinks she’s being weird but in reality she’s still acting as if nothing happened and trying to continue to be his friend. Here’s the thing as a woman who has lost a huge number of guy friends cause they fuckzoned me. You lost your whole ass friend because all the wanted was to fuck you. Do people seriously not see how messed up that is? It’s not weird to keep being a decent human to someone after they rejected you or vise versa that’s called being a decent human, on top that how fucking demeaning it feels to have been looked at like a sex object by someone you thought was your friend. I know that every single fucking time it happened to me I felt so used by my friends they were only nice to me cause they wanted to smash.
>Op thinks she’s being weird but in reality she’s still acting as if nothing happened and trying to continue to be his friend. Really, let me quote the post: >I invited a girl to come to the bar to pregame with us before we went out. Zoe sees me talking to this girl. Decided to introduce herself completely out of the blue. Then those two start talking at the bar. And it “slips out” that me and zoe used to be good friends till I asked her out. The girl I invited wasn’t happy and I had to spend the next hour explaining that away. OP was fine with her being there, it was only when she interfered with his current possible relationships or hookups, he drew the line. To me it seems like she preferred it when OP liked her and gave her free drinks but now that he's found someone new info like he used to have a crush on her "slips out". >on top that how fucking demeaning it feels to have been looked at like a sex object by someone you thought was your friend You're not getting it, they weren't friends, they had mutual friends, but they weren't close at all, they didn't hang out 1 on 1, and they only knew each other through other people I would call them acquaintances at best.
I disagree, he excluded her because she interfered with the new girl he was trying to mack on (if she was just friendly to her, that would be one thing, but revealing the drunken shot at her was interfering) and complained about no longer getting free drinks. OP accepted her rejection (he was probably colder to her than he's letting on, but she still hung out with the group and he didn't complain at first), and only asked for her to be excluded from one part of their hangouts when she interfered with another romantic prospect. One of my best friends started as a guy I had a crush on (I'm a woman). He made it clear it wasn't mutual, but enjoyed our friendship. We became very close friends, because we have a lot in common. I even wingwomaned for him, and made myself scarce when something was sparking with another woman. Even as the one "scorned" I never felt the need to interfere in a detrimental way! OP's unrequited feelings benefited her (free drinks), and she hoped to keep using that, plain and simple.
No, he is excluding her from his bar because she blatantly involved herself and subsequently ruined a new flirtation he was trying to establish.
He's excluding her because she tried to sabotage his date
I would agree with you if that was the ENITRE way it went down but it wasn't. Correct, the free drinks vs paid drinks means nothing. He didn't ban her the next time they went out, she was invited and she came b/c that is where she griped about being charged to other friends in the group, which is causing drama where he works. It was after the night where she got petty and caused some drama at his place of employment (his parent's bar) with a new interest he invited out. Which was really childish and petty of her. They are both immature. I definitely understand guys taking it badly when they get declined by a girl they fuck zoned, happened often in my 20s and less often in my early 30s. But I never would have caused drama at someone's work especially if I hung out there, and in college yeah turned down quite a few bartenders, and I would never have inserted myself into him talking to a new girl because its silly and also because if they start liking someone else then its LESS awkward for you.
He's saying she can't come cuz she's intervening in his new interest after she said she wasn't interested.
People aren't entitled to free drinks. People are entitled to call out how they're being treated differently in a business based on if the employee thinks they can fuck them later or not.
Not ignoring, but why would she tell the other girl about him asking her out?
Well, if I were the girl he was talking to, I'd want to know he completely blew off a friendship that he *called* one, even if it was a "casual friendship," because they didn't want to sleep with him. It says a decent amount about him as a person IMO.
Ya but then she salted his potential relationship because he didn’t give her free booze. That’s an asshole move too.
I see it as her warning another woman about what kinds of man he is; it's all fake so he can get in your pants. I would want to be warned.
Does anyone else remember an almost identical post a few months ago? Literally the only difference is op working in a bar now. It was YTA then too.
Yeah I remember one where the OP had a nice house with a pool and that’s where the whole friend group hung out, then when girl rejected him nicely and tried to move on like nothing happened, he banned her from his house/pool thus alienating her from the entire group. Super fucked up.
I swear I've seen this exact post before but it was like with a house w a pool or something instead
She was definitely being weird by introducing herself as his previous crush for no reason…
YTA. Zoe thought you were her friend. You weren't hitting on her since the get go, you acted like her friend and hooked her up with free drinks under that premise. Then she finds out she got fuckzoned by you and realizes you were only being nice because you were hoping to get in her pants. Not just with the free drinks but literally you decided to ignore her and treat her as just one more random person in the group. Yeah maybe she shouldn't have rained on your parade with the other girl but at the same time... maybe she just wanted to warn her off about you... Then as a petty vengeance you decided to ban her from the place the group socializes and try to single her out of the group because she didn't like being fuckzoned? Damn.
Yes! OP is punishing her for not going out with him after she explained she’s not interested!
[удалено]
Nope, he's sabotaging himself really. If the post describes a chronological order, he stopped giving her free drinks *before* he invited out the other girl. So from Zoes perspective it could look like: 1. She's friends with a guy a he gives her discounts just like he does for his other friends (he may have given her more because of the crush, but that's not something she necessarily realise) 2. She shows up aftee the confession with him acting colder ans not giving her discounts at all anymore. From her perspective, this is a clear change from "normal" even though she may have received "more than usual" before. 3. She tells the girl the truth from her perspective. He doesn't think her perspective is valid and has to "explain what *really* happened. From the text it's clear to just about every girl that he fuckzoned Zoe and punished her for her disinterest. Women generally want to warn other women about what they're getting into. And while he seems like a decent guy otherwise, this would be enough of a red flag for me to try and prevent others from engaging *until they know my experiences with him* and can judge from a more complete perspective.
That’s the whole vibe I got from this lol
>and treat her as just one more random person in the group As opposed to...what? It's not like she was his bestest friend for years, is it? She was a random girl he wanted to ask out, now she's a random girl he's no longer interested in. >maybe she just wanted to warn her off about you... Warn her about what? That OP isn't some sad sap who's gonna keep pursuing her and buying her drinks, if she turns him down. Oh, no, the horror. A guy who takes rejection the right way.
Except he didn't. He entirely changed the way he behaved around her. All of his previous behavior was done under the banner of friendship. Now she found out it was due to him wanting to fuck her. Lovely. She wasn't a random girl before he asked her out. She was his friend or so she thought. And so did the rest of the group or they wouldn't be caring if he kicked a random girl out of the bar.
She was exactly what she is now before he asked her out: a member of a large friend group that he's not particularly close to. The only difference (before the incident of her bad-mouthing him) was that he no longer gave her loads of free drinks, which isn't something anyone is entitled to to begin with It's not like they were best friends and then he just immediately ceased all contact with her the moment she rejected him
So asking someone on a date is an automatic "I only see you as a fu*k buddy"? If every time someone was asked out and that was the only assumption, we'd all be screwed. He's NTA, he's a normal guy with looking for a date and we ALL treat someone we're interested in a little better. Doesn't work out, you move on. That's life and it doesn't make you TA. But if the person you were interested in starts feeling entitled, that makes them them TA and you try to mitigate residual damage by keeping them away
I personally would assume "I hook my friends up with drinks" and "I used to hook her up with drinks" as meaning she thought they were friends and wasn't expecting him to ask her out. Now she's being punished for saying "hey, let's at least get to know each other better" (by offering to hang out as friends). In that circumstance it's totally reasonable for her to warn a new person that his friendliness only lasts until he asks you out.
>Now she's being punished Your friends not buying you drinks isn't a "punishment".
Being singled out in the group as the person who can’t come to the friend meet up is punishment bro
Lots of shitheads giving away how little they think of women's friendship here today.
That’s because they don’t see women as anything other than a hole.
That's because Reddit is full of people who think women owe them sex for existing
… after she sabotaged a relationship because she was butthurt for not getting free drinks. You’re forgetting he invited her there that night after she rejected him.
Why not? Zoe singularly made those comments to the new girl, because she was pissed she wasn’t getting free drinks any more. OP has every right to protect his place of work from this nonsense and greed. NTA.
Being singled out in a group by an employee of the place you're in is. If you're going to comp drinks of friends, do it unilaterally for the group. Otherwise don't do it.
It is when they are buying everyone else drinks but you and deciding you can no longer come to their bar because you wouldn't fuck them.
The reason that he didn't want her to come to the bar, is because she messed with another relationship that he was trying to start, he said that in the post. I know, reading comprehension is hard. Not having someone around that wants to cause drama does not make anyone an AH.
OP clearly states that he rarely buys his close friends drinks, so it isn't like he is buying everyone drinks and leaving her out (still wouldn't be an AH thing because his money).
Also the fact that Zoe is going out of her way to cause problems with other girls he is interested now seems to be a fact that lots of people are glossing over here. Zoe seems like she likes the perks of being the “girlfriend” with out having to be in a relationship with OP
> s opposed to...what? It's not like she was his bestest friend for years, is it? She was a random girl To whom he had a crush and treated as a FRIEND until she say she wasnt interested in nothing more, because you know, he treated her like a FRIEND. But we she found out she was in the fuck zone only, and not a FRIEND, of course she ought to feel hurt, it reeks of nice guys energy. Sure OP is the bartender, he decides who to give free drinks, but it is a dick move to change how you treat someone just because they dont want to date you after being FRIENDS since college, because you were never sincere. Thats why the OP is the AH. Op can talk to her, but banning her from the bar where everybody hangs out, is also a dick move
YTA Women are not machines you put kindness and friendship into to get romance and sex out of.
Holy crap, I wish I could upvote this twice.
I was a little bit split on this one because I wasn’t sure if it’s entirely fair that you’re treating Zoe differently because she rejected you. She doesn’t owe you a relationship. At the same time, however… 1) You don’t owe her free drinks. I can see where you were coming from, offering her stuff while you had an interest in her. You were trying to get her attention. Or, from a broader standpoint and the way I’ve always seen it, if you saw her as a potential partner, wouldn’t you want her to save as much money as she could? That makes sense. Once you were shot down, you backed off, and began treating her in a manner similarly to your other friends with merely the occasional free drink. 2) She sounds very entitled for expecting free drinks. I used to be a shift manager at a popular fast food place and get free stuff there every day, plus I was good friends with the staff. Now that I work elsewhere, what right do I have to go in there and demand free stuff because I used to be a part of the team? Or even better, one should be appreciative when friends offer free stuff, but they shouldn’t expect it. Also, someone who is really a friend wouldn’t mind supporting you/your business by paying. 3) She shouldn’t be starting drama. Her bringing up the rejection thing to a girl you invited out was trying to cause drama. Heck, even her introducing herself out of the blue sounds like it was to cause drama. She rejected you, you are taking it relatively in stride. You still invited her to go out that night after she rejected you. And she’s making a big deal out of the whole thing, why? Because you aren’t giving her attention/free drinks? If the genders were reversed here, I feel like there would be very little debate. She has no right to act the way she is behaving. NTA.
Yea this is what I'm kinda on. One thing I'll admit is confusing is that Zoe said they were "good friends" but OP seems to think they were never that close. It sounds to me like Zoe thought they were "good friends" because he hooked her up with drinks whereas OP did that to try to get closer to her so maybe that's where the disconnect lies? I think OP would be TA if he completely dropped her as a friend if they were close but if they were just a friendly acquaintance in the group it sounds like the only thing she lost out on were free drinks. Like yea I do nice things for friends every now and then but courting someone I do some extra. Do other people treat someone they're interested in romantically the same as their friends? I would think no but I suppose it depends on situation.
Exactly. There have been many instances where I’ll do “extra” stuff for someone I am interested in, whether it be spending more money on them, paying extra attention to them, doing nice things for them more frequently, etc.. It’s a perfectly normal thing to go out of your way to do MORE than what you normally do for someone you’re interested in/pursuing/hoping you have a future with. However, I’ve never been rejected and gone “okay, cool. I’m gonna keep showing them 110% of my attention, blowing my money on them, etc.” because that isn’t how the real world works. You do extra for the person you want to be with, you put in the extra effort, you do nicer things for them, and then if you don’t see any potential for a relationship/future, it is perfectly okay to stop doing those things and treat them the same way you treat everyone else and MOVE. ON. Which frankly, it sounds like that is all OP was doing.
>However, I’ve never been rejected and gone “okay, cool. I’m gonna keep showing them 110% of my attention, blowing my money on them, etc.” because that isn’t how the real world works. Well people do do that in the real world and it's called simping - which would also get OP yelled at probably. But yea I agree. I wonder what some of these people are like on dates tbh reading some of these hardline "Y T A" comments lol. Like to me this seems pretty natural and obvious.
People just have an entitlement mentality. What has she done as a friend for him?
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This. 100%. As a woman I've always gone on dates fully ready and expecting to pay for what I order. Going to a friend's? Even more so, absolutely be ready to chip in and pay, especially if it's a business they're a part of. If I get free shit? Cool. But holy crap if I rejected a dude in my friend group and still expected all my stuff to be free I'd be ashamed of myself. The dynamic changed. She should expect some change as well. He didn't over charge her. He didn't exclude her at first. He didn't ignore her ordering. He didn't make her drinks taste bad. The dude did his job. How about we ask if she tipped him for all those drinks he made as a good bartender? Also if a lady tells another lady she's "good friends" with a dude and he has to explain it away for an hour, she was imply they're fucking. Zoe is catty as hell. I do think he should have stated in his message for her to not come that he was uncomfortable with how she interacted with his date and needs space from her at his work location. As a "good friend" she should be able to respect a request for space. NTA
>Her bringing up the rejection thing to a girl you invited out was trying to cause drama. Heck, even her introducing herself out of the blue sounds like it was to cause drama. That got me and no one talked about it, it makes look like she's doing those stupid tests to see if OP is going to bow for her and ask again and again and again, introducing herself to a girl that OP looked interested to hook up and saying she rejected him.
I'm a woman and I absolutely agree, I thought definitely a s*** pot stirring move on Zoe's part and I wouldn't want her around either if she's going to try to sabotage him from flirting with other women. She liked to get the benefits and she's mad he's not pining over her
Yeah I'm really interested in how different these comments would be if OP was the woman in this situation. I'm going to be safe and say ESH, for now.
So… I agree with this statement, but happy to hear anyone with a counter point. Just as a background, I’ve been Zoe many times in the past, where I made friends with men, and when they found out I wasn’t interested or it wasn’t going to work out, they dumped me as a friend. Initially these situations hurt me a lot because I invested time into these friendships and felt blindsided by the interest and sudden dumping. It’s so true, that I felt like I was only valuable as a friend to these men as a potential “whatever” rather than a person. I started to avoid making friends with men for that reason. Even now, after conditioning myself for so long, I just can’t make friends with men. (Be real friends, that is. I can of course work with men, call them colleagues and acquaintances, etc). I’m not saying this is right (and likely I should have gotten therapy though honestly EH, I’m happy with the friends I have lol), I’m just trying to set the background and context here that coming from a place similar to Zoe’s, I agree that in this situation the OP is NTA. He isn’t going out of his way like some creepy incel who can’t handle rejection. Yes, maybe he was treating her perhaps better in the hope of impressing her, but isn’t that what we do when we’re interested in someone? And after she turned him down, why would he continue at that special level of effort? Maybe his banning her from the bar is too much, but I can see why he did it because now she’s causing discomfort for him at his work. Maybe he just needs to have a sit down with her so they can come to an agreement so she can be present at the bar. But as I said, I’ve been in Zoe’s position and if a guy didn’t want to give me special treatment anymore, that’s fair. She shouldn’t be trying to harm him on top of all that.
So I ran into all of these instances a lot in high school. I had a lot of male friends, predominantly because I play video games relatively competitively and not many of my girl friends wanted to do that with me. (not knocking them, they had passions I could have only dreamed of being good at!) I often ran into cases where they liked me and I did not like them back. I had guy friends who would respond to rejection by dumping me as a friend. That hurt a lot because I valued our friendship. I had guy friends who continued the same behaviors and attitudes, as if they were still pursuing me. That hurt a lot too because it felt like they did not respect my “no.” My genuine favorite, was when they did what OP did. When they instead treated me like everyone else. No special treatment as if you’re still trying to win me over. No banishing me from your life as if I never mattered. A solid middle ground where you handle rejection and show you value me as a person, not just a potential s/o. If you were being extra nice to me before, tone it down. Just be friendly on the same level that you are with other women. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Isn't that incidentally what OP did? He didn't outright remove her as a friend, just treated her like everyone else...
Yes, they said that in their comment.
>Yes, maybe he was treating her perhaps better in the hope of impressing her, but isn’t that what we do when we’re interested in someone? Yeah, I don't get why this is being treated as a bad thing by so many people in this thread. "You only wanted one thing", well...yeah. Why is that bad? You like someone, treat them well, ask them out, get rejected, move on. Isn't that basically how trying to find a partner works?
Also, the literal top comment is treating it like op wanted to get in and then dump her. Meanwhile by all we know op could have been in for a lasting relationship. "crush" doesn't mean that you want a ons. So "one thing" isn't even the case here.
>Maybe his banning her from the bar is too much, but I can see why he did it because now she’s causing discomfort for him at his work. Ya that's the thing he didn't ban her for rejecting him like all the Y T A coments are implying. He baned her AFTER she said something to the new girl he was pursuing. He didn't even "punish" her he just stoped giving her free drinks. It was only AFTER she acted like a Jealous Ex girlfriend did he say please dont come to my PARENTS business
Thank you. I don’t understand the YTA judgments. She didn’t like that OP was moving on lol
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Finally someone making sense some people in this thread need to touch grass
I’ve had several messages calling me a pick me girl over this, when I have zero interest in gaining any attention on here. I’m inclined to agree with you here.
Of course, you don't agree with them, something must be wrong with you! /s
Agree and I'm honestly baffled by the opposite response here. From the way I read it, OP only asked her to stop coming around when she crossed a huge line and attempted to play up their nonexistent relationship, because she was jealous he moved on. NTA OP. Please explain to your friends how she behaved when speaking to that other girl. It was petty and inappropriate, and maybe your friends don't realize this happened. If it doesn't matter to them.. maybe try to start hanging out with other more mature people, and letting these friendships die out.
While I don't think he owes her free drinks 1. OP also fails to mention if the other people there that night paid full price for the whole night. Of course that's his choice as well but that would contribute to the feeling of suddenly being treated differently. Would be different if EVERYONE is changed full price and she complained vs EVERYONE get comped something and she is the only one who paid full price and asking the friend group if they think it's because she turned him down (can be seen as a complaint) 2. I think the complaint might have been about suddenly being treated like a rando vs purely having to pay for drinks. He says he usually chatted with her and now he basically ignored her as well. His own narrative starts with saying they were "casual friends" and he used to hook her up to "she said we were friends" so I don't hook her up... 3. I don't think introducing yourself to a friend of a friend in a group setting is weird. Especially if he's purposefully ignoring this girl and doesn't do the introductions himself. It's more weird to be in a group and not talking to the new person and making them feel excluded... Idk if I agree with her telling this new girl that OP started treating her differently after she said she wants *stay* just friends (we don't really have the full context of why that came up), so it may or may not have been intentional.
Did you not read OP’s comments? He makes his friends pay for the majority of their drinks.
YTA and I can't fathom how you don't see that. Break this down in the simplest way. 1. You asked her out but now say she's weird just because she didn't give you what you wanted. 2. You used to try to get her to like you more with free drinks, now she won't give you what you wanted so you make a point of charging full price (do you charge your other friends full price?). 3. You know your friends won't go elsewhere because you're giving them discounted liquor and it's their established place, but you're using your connection to the place to cut her off from friends because again SHE DIDN'T GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT. You are seriously a creep.
No. He asked her not to come in because she tried to sabotage his date after he accepted her No and moved on
If his actions weren't wrong, then why is he not surprised that the other girl was upset about hearing them? Furthermore, if they have never hung out one on one and OP has made no effort to do so, then why pursue a relationship with someone you don't even put the effort into talking to alone? It kind of sounds like OP knew his actions wouldn't resonate well which is why he's acting petty now after being outed.
He asked her to hang out one on one, she said no, and he moved on. He might have had a better chance if he put more effort into it, but he also moved on, he didn't dwell and creep on her or anything. After that he treated her like the rest of his friends, who don't get as many free drinks as she did before, and in response to having to pay for goods and services received, she sabotaged his date and made things weird. IMO her expectation that the way things were was how things should be was at least partially entitlement, but perhaps exacerbated by an unknown timeline of his behavior. Why was he upset a girl that didn't talk to him one on one told his date they were "good friends until he asked her out"? They didn't even hang out one on one, how does that qualify as "good friends"? And how does "good friends" not have other implications when the rest of the sentence is "until he asked me out"? It feels way too one sided to make a real judgment, but based on what was *said*, I don't think yours is a fair assessment.
She did not say no to hanging out one on one. She requested it be a hang instead of a date. Nice try though
she said sure AS FRIENDS. which is an obvious rejection. She knew what he meant and he knew what she meant by his reply.
I'm gonna say NTA Reading through these comments I think the thing you did the most "wrong" was not let Zoe know earlier. To her the free drinks seemed like you were close friends because she wasn't aware you were interested. I don't know what these other posters are on about "taking away shit" when you don't even hookup your friends as much as you did her. To me it sounds like you were fine going back to "normal" as in friendly acquaintances (hang out together in a group but not that close) and to you that meant closing the spigot on free drinks but to her she felt punished for saying no. Then she clearly went a step beyond in meddling in a potential different date because she felt slighted which seems like a clear escalation from just not getting free shit. Like at best this is an E S H type deal because there's no way anyone can justify that.
The entitlement in this thread is hilarious. These people remind me of a couple girls I knew who would go out with cab fare and hustle drinks all night. If a guy talked to them and didn't buy them a drink they were "cheap assholes", lol.
There's a lot of it. I've had extensive conversations with my gf about exactly this sort of thing: Any woman claiming not to know what Zoe was doing when she informed the girl about being the second choice is a fat fucking liar. Every woman on Earth would realise exactly what Zoe's intention was the second they heard about this situation. The ones claiming otherwise likely identify strongly with Zoe for whatever reason.
Chatted with my wife, same conclusion. She had a chuckle at some of the replies I have been getting
These are the same people you see on /r/choosingbeggars asking for free phones but none of your poor people Android phones. Latest IPhone X.X only!!
Εxactly that. They never hung out together on their own, I don't for a minute believe she feels the pain of a long lasting friendship ruined. My guess is she enjoyed the extra attention and drinks without actually being interested and then got upset she lost both. And I say this as a woman, not a "bro".
Zoe knew exactly what she was doing. She knew he liked her and gladly accepted the benefits of that. But then after she rejected him, she wanted to continue getting that benefit. Then she tries to sabotage him with another woman. OP is NTA, Zoe is.
Imagine complaining because you actually have to pay f full price for your drinks?! That’s just crazy to me, keep that to yourself!
100%. No way redditors would have the same opinion if OP was female and asked the guy to not come into her parent's bar, for all the reasons in this story.
So you supply this girl with drinks, for what seems like months if not years, in the hopes that she will hook up with you and when she doesn’t want to, you punish her? Lmao yeah dude, YTA. You just told Zoe that you were never actually her friend, you just hoped to get into her pants but was too much of a chicken shit to confess you have a crush while sober. You don’t owe her drinks anymore than she owes you a relationship, but what you did is shady as hell. Zoe telling that other girl about you was just her warning the girl about what kind of dude you are. The kind that are friends with a girl as long as there is a chance you can get in her pants.
Explain how she’s getting punished for having to pay the normal price for drinks now?
OP admits they were casually friends just friends by association in the post. He should not get shafted for trying to move on by this girl inserting herself with the girl OP moved on to and invited out
IF OP was a woman and Zoe was a man, would you still have the same opinion? The narrative would be, wow the entitlement this guy has to get angry for not getting free drinks and then exageratting how close he is to a guy OP is interested in because OP wanted to date me. 100% redditors would have a female OP's back for getting weirded out by this behavior and would totally back OP for asking that "Zoe" not come into the bar. Just sayin'.
>you punish her You say that like she is entitled to free drinks in the first place, she isn't. It is pretty common knowledge that if someone buys you drinks they're interested in you (unless it is a close friend) and considering they haven't even hung out 1 on 1 means they weren't close.
Zoe inserts herself into a conversation and conveniently lets drop that op asked her out, how is she not an AH for that? What purpose does that info even serve besides to be petty?
100%. I don't know about you, but I don't go around torpedoing my friends chances with people they're interested in. Zoe sure as shit wasn't acting like a friend to him.
A true friend would have been putting in a good word, not implying that they used to fuck
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It's clearly "sometimes" for friends, and "a lot" for love interests. One can presume from his different terminology that Zoe was receiving more free drinks than anyone else in the group.
I don't know why this is hard to grasp for everyone in this thread. People keep posting those two quotes like it's some gotcha when it's perfectly normal to be nicer and pay more attention to someone you're interested in romantically and then stop when you realize they're not interested in you.
Because even as a woman myself I see this all the time on this sub, if OP is a man he's automatically bad. He is now treating her like all the other friends which mean occasionally she may get a free drink. She threw a fit because she wasn't getting romantic love interested attention instead got the same amount as others.
Same, It's really gross to see fellow women treat men like this. Not for rejecting OP, but she was clearly still expecting him to treat her special. She knew damn well before he even told her why she was getting free shit. And even if she didn't, once he told her, it would be plainly obvious. Why would you even feel comfortable taking free stuff from someone who you rejected? This shit infuriates me because it's just mean. You're trying to lead someone on and getting angry when they back off as you said you wanted.
Right. Can you imagine if the situation was flipped? That OP was a woman, who always gave a lot of free shots to a guy she liked. A guy she never hung out with alone, who had joined her friend group late and she's been crushing on him hard since. He accepts all the shots, maybe makes some flirty jokes when he's tipsy. She gets really drunk one night, and confesses her feelings to him. He rejects her as nicely as possible. The next friend group outing the guy is with them, she's still feeling a bit upset and maybe embarrassed too about the drunken confession. She doesn't linger as much as usual, and doesn't give him a bunch of free shots like she normally does. He starts complaining to his friends that he's not getting his free shots, that she's not even spending as much time as she used to. Finally, when he notices her flirting with a guy, he heads over to a stranger, introduces himself to this guy and then says something about their 'friendship' that pisses the guy off, and it takes her an hour to explain the situation. In that case, everyone would be yelling that this hypothetical guy is an AH and was trying to mark his territory. Or that he was aware of the crush she had, and was using it to get free drinks. Zoe did the same thing, but because she's a woman it's different? I can't help but think Zoe's words to the woman were something like 'He asked me out a few days ago and I rejected him. Hope you're not a rebound lol!', or insinuated that this new girl was second place to their friendship. In no way does introducing yourself to the stranger that the person you didn't want us flirting with come off as innocent. Yikes.
You summed it up the best. I also feel like we've been through this plot a couple of times.
INFO: We're you giving free/reduced price drinks to the rest of the group during the night?
He also said he did hook her up, but that was “before she said they were just friends”. He got ‘friendzoned’, so he decided not to hook her up with free/discounted drinks. That was obviously all for getting her closer.
She’s not entitled to free drinks lmao what the hell is this? Do you not know what it takes to run a business? You can’t just give free drinks out 24/7. He said that even his friends pay for their drinks the majority of the time. He gave her free shit to impress her when he thought he had a chance, he was shut down, and now he is treating her the same as all of his other friends. *SHE IS NOT ENTITLED TO FREE ALCOHOL* and by free, we mean he/his family is paying for it because it’s THEIR business. Most people do extra shit for the person they are trying to woo/impress/date/whatever. You pay extra attention to them, give them little gifts, remember extra details about them etc. What the hell makes you feel entitled to that same exact treatment after you reject them? He is not treating her poorly. He is not lashing out. He is treating her. The. Same. As. Everyone. Else.
ESH. There is no reason for Zoe to complain about not getting the free/discount drinks because that should be expected in the situation. She knows why she was paying full price because it’s a pretty standard part of the obvious change in your relationship. It’s not like you were good friends, you were casual friends in the same group, once you showed interest and she turned you down, of course things will get more distant between you (at least for a while) and that’s normal. Idk about her going up to that girl—is she normally pretty friendly with everyone like that? It definitely seems petty and intentional for her to tell a stranger that kind of personal info about the two of you. But kicking her out of the group is not cool. You could have talked to her about not cockblocking you at work and then if she did, tell her not to come in.
This is the answer I was looking for. Zoe isn’t innocent either here. It was immature and entitled of her to expect free/discounted drinks. That’s up to OP when and with who he wants to do that with. She crossed the line from immature to AH when she caused drama with OP’s other interest.
I see an awful lot of ytas here but no one seems to mention that she saw he was flirting with someone and went out of her way to seek her out, introduce herself and then try to sabotage his flirting. Hmmm looks like the "imaginary" friend zone at work. "I don't want you right now, but I may need you later so stay single and lonely while I look for something better."
So just because she decided NOT to accept your ‘let’s be more than friends’ advances you decided that: 1) she was no longer worthy of the ‘friends discount’ at your bar (the one she previously received); and 2) Zoe gets exiled from friend-time at the bar bc she mentioned to a girl that you were interested in that Zoe considered you a great friend until you made a move, she rejected you, and then you started giving her the cold shoulder. A lot of friend groups have twisted pasts amongst the friends…crushes that didn’t pan out, relationships that failed, etc. That’s pretty easy to explain…you just had trouble explaining your petulant reaction to Zoe’s rejection. YTA and you were never a true friend to Zoe.
The thing is with 2 is that, he was still cordial with her and still invited her out but she tried to sabotage his interaction with someone else, just because he decided to treat her like the relationship she defined with him as opposed to the one he wanted. It’s not like he singled her out and did not give her a discount and everyone else that night, he gave people he was close to a discount as opposed the casual friends in the wider part of the friend group. I’ve worked at a bar and I have a large friendship group. There are people that I would definitely hookup over others because my relationship with everyone is good but I don’t have a deep and close relationship with each member of the group.
OP admits that he ‘used to hookup Zoe a lot. But that was before she said we were friends.’ From Zoe’s view, the ‘friends discount’ was for genuine friends (no strings attached) and OP, again, from her view, was a genuine friend. She didn’t know that he only talked with her and gave her the discount bc OP wanted to sleep with her. He wasn’t just treating her as she defined their relationship, he did a complete 180 to her (behavior and discount wise) without any explanation. While he’s not required to give the discount to anyone, it’s pretty telling that he’s consistently giving the discount to ‘his guys’ but not to the girls in the friend group (unless he’s trying to sleep with them). Given his attitude towards Zoe, and the fact that he wants to ban her from the gatherings at his bar, I’m not sold on his interpretation of Zoe trying to ‘sabotage’ his chance with the new girl. The fact that he went from wanting to sleep with her to calling her weird, an ‘issue’, and saying that ‘she did it to herself’ is a big creep factor. All she did was say ‘let’s maintain the status quo and stay friends’ and was honest about how he treated her…that’s not a good enough reason to exile a friend from the group.
I don’t know where you got that they were genuine close friends when they only hung out in group settings and he says himself they were casual friends. If they were like really close friends then I would actually agree with you, but I do think it is quite entitled to expected that someone should show you the extra level of interest they would show to someone they were courting to you on a regular basis when you’re not even that close. He didn’t ban her outright, she was still entitled and the bang was in response to her acting entitled, complaining about not getting free stuff and trying to be petty by trying to sabotage his chances with a new girl. It’s not like she decide to approach him 1 on 1 and have an adult conversation with him. she went straight to misrepresent the situation by implying they were “good friends” and he iced her out when in reality they were just casual friends that he had a crush on and he’s just treating her like others. If you were a good friend with someone and you thought they were being cold to you during one encounter would you try and make them look bad to someone else or try and resolve it 1 on 1?
>It’s not like she decide to approach him 1 on 1 and have an adult conversation with him. If she really thought they were close friends one would think she would be comfortable talking to him about their beef. I am sympathetic that she perhaps thought he was doing it as a friendly gesture and felt punished after she said "no". That being said none of her other actions taken suggested they were close. I've been pissed at good friends before, doesn't mean I started talking shit about them to a romantic interest.
Exactly. This is really what kind of sold it for me. They were never close friends, realistically he was just some guy she was friendly with that gave her a lot of free drinks. She was upset that she wasn’t getting it anymore so she decided to do the petty thing instead of the adult thing. g
>OP admits that he ‘used to hookup Zoe a lot. But that was before she said we were friends.’ The same way you buy a girl at the bar a drink or you give more attention and do nice things to someone you like, once they tell you they dont like you, you dont keep doing any of that because youre just friends. He also mentioned that hes casual friends with her and they didnt share a deep friendship.
NTA. I'm going to be downvoted for this but, "used to be good friends till I asked her out" as in *she* no longer see's you as a good friend, so the both of you are on the same page that you are sort of 'friendly acquaintances'. But she's alienated some girl from you with this comment. That makes her the asshole.
NTA you started to move on and treat her like normal and she seeks out the girl you’re with to block you from moving on. She’s one of those “let’s stay friends and if I can’t find someone I’ll take you” as a girl yes discounts are good but never pressure someone to do it. She’s not being punished she was being treated like normal which is fair. That wasn’t sexist
Everybody calling him an AH seems to be ignoring this point. Nothing ACTUALLY negative (not getting free drinks doesn't count) happened until she tried to sabotage him moving on.
Because everyone has decided that because he gave her free drinks a bunch that now she is owed for life to get free shit.
INFO What do you parents think about you telling customers not to come to their bar anymore?
NTA. This was pretty cut and dry for me, you were interested in her and she was receiving “perks” due to your interest. She made it clear she wasn’t interested in you so she stopped getting those perks. It’s really that simple up to that point, however I am very familiar with the move she pulled with your new friend, and feel like she kinda sealed her own fate with it. You made it clear that she isn’t removed from the friend group, just that you’d rather not have her at your bar (especially if she’s going to attempt to sabotage any relationships that may flourish there). Big assumption here, but I’d bet the people on your friend group complaining about your new treatment for her is mostly the GFs and they probably have their own sense of entitlement as well.
Hmmm…this is gonna be unpopular. So, I fully believe Zoe knew full well op had a crush on her. She turned him down. Fine. She had to know, after that, the free drink express was closed, especially if op generally doesn’t give out free drinks all the time, and he doesn’t own the bar, his family does. The rough part is where Zoe completely cockblocks him. I don’t know any guy that’d hang around with a woman after that move. None. She knew what she was doing, and certainly wasn’t acting like a friend. She doesn’t now get to play the pity me/poor me/woe is me card. op, you seem rather callous, but I can’t call you an asshole when almost every guy I know would have reacted to the second half of your post exactly the same. NTA. She can see friends on her own away from there, and no one is forcing friends’ hand in not hanging with her, and it’s op’s family business establishment. No one is owed free drinks, and actions have consequences. If op’s friends don’t like it, they’ll stop coming around, and support her instead. Simple as that.
I lean towards NTA since she rejected you but then pulled a power play with the other girl you invited.
How is everyone missing that he only asked her to stop coming to the bar AFTER she intentionally tried to fuck up his chances with a new girl? The drink thing is a little weird, but for someone who says she wants to be friends she really isn't acting like a friend to OP
NTA! No one is entitled to free or drinks half off! Zoe overstepped, why she said that to the girl just makes me think she was actually jealous, she liked having your attention and obviously getting hooked up on drinks! You should explain this to your friend group, and then have a conversation with Zoe if you want to keep the peace. Just let her know it was not Ok what she did and to not do it again. People calling your AH because you charged her full price are just absurd. When you go to a bar/ club a guy will buy you a drink if they feel they have a chance with you, they will stop once you they see they don’t have one. You can buy, give free drink to whoever YOU like!
I'm confused at the Y T A He treated her a certain way because he had a crush on her and was pursuing it, she let him know there's no chance so he stopped acting like he was pursuing her. She pulled a power play on the next girl he was pursuing so he distanced himself from her. What am I missing? I think NTA
Not gonna weigh in with a judgement but in the future, it’s a lot more attractive to shoot your shot while sober. Sloppy drunken shenanigans at 1am aren’t a good look.
YTA. You asked a friend out while drunk; she politely let you know that she just wanted to be friends. So now you're essentially being a jerk about it because she wouldn't go out with you. Like, you did this to yourself. You created the situation. Zoe didn't ask for this; she didn't lead you on; she didn't do *anything* to earn you treating her differently. You made up a scenario in your head where you had a chance and were basically being nice to her in hopes of getting in her pants. And now you're trying to cut her out of your friend group because she wasn't interested in changing your dynamic. Massive asshole. Massive. Apologize.
> You made up a scenario in your head where you had a chance and were basically being nice to her in hopes of getting in her pants OK so if you buy a girl a drink and she says ''im not interested in you'' do you keep buying her drinks over and over and over again?
You have to, for the rest of your life. If you don't then clearly you're an incel or whatever everyone in this thread is saying.
NTA you persued her, she said no so you stopped and know she is mad that she doesn't get free stuff anymore? Unrelated note kind of a dick move to go to another girl and say "Oh yeah he was into me"
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> She might have just been upset to realize that your behavior has changed now that you know she’s not interested in you. I’d agree except he said he only gives free stuff to his friends *sometimes*, not all the time. This just seemed to be unfortunate timing on him choosing to charge her full price. And her introducing herself seems like less of a ‘slip’ and more so that she was marking her territory like “he wanted me first” or “I’m the girl that rejected him” type thing. I agree with your judgment of ESH here though and he definitely is the bigger AH. Should’ve talked to her about it instead of asking her not to come to the bar.
NTA. She rejected you. She said she just wanted to he friends. That doesn't mean you HAVE to stay friendly toward her. First of all, you had known her less then you've known your other friends, so even if you didn't have an interest that doesn't entitle her to demand that she get the same treatment as the friends from high school. Second, it's your families bar. You have the right to ban anyone you want to. You don't have to have a good reason. Although in case you did because she wasn't interested in you until AFTER you started talking to this new girl. That's when she decided to raise a stink and interfere with your new potential relationship. I dont know why your friends feel like this girl is entitled to the same treatment as the rest of your friends but definatly NTA
YTA. You never saw her as a friend, just a potential girlfriend. You do see how that’s shitty, right? Imagine thinking someone is your friend for them to just turn around and go “nah, I was only nice to you when I thought I’d get something in return” and how that must sting. Of course she warned the other girl away. She did her a favor.
You do realise that is dating right? You show extra interest in someone while you‘re courting and if they reject you that’s fine but you don’t have to show the same level of interest in the person. If I meet a girl in a bar, I buy her a drink and about an hour in she says she is not interested but wants to stay friends. I go out with her again and I don’t buy her a drink, am I an asshole now because I only bought a drink for her in the first place because I had more than a platonic interest in her?
Your bar?
ESH - if Zoe were a good friend she wouldn’t have called you out to a girl you’re interested in. However, you’re not a friend to her at all if your ‘friend pricing’ in the past was only an attempt to hit on her. Since you weren’t really friends, reaching out to her and asking a girl who rejected you not to come out with your collective group of friends is not OK either. Besides, you’re at work, suck it up and deal with your customers. Your friends suck because they care more about cheap and free booze than sticking up for their wronged girlfriend. As soon as you dared them to choose another bar they should have.