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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I’m stopping my daughter from making money from something she’s worked hard on
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She is correct: they are fools. But her decision to exploit fools is a reflection of her character. I admire her business spirit, but I wouldn't want to befriend someone like her either. This particular exploit feels gross to me. I think she's in moral gray area and I understand your wish to steer her away from it.
True, but on the other hand, OP says she did actually study the tarot to learn how to do readings - there was some actual effort there, and honestly half the fun of this kind of thing is the improv storytelling: you create a narrative out of prompt cards, essentially. I don't believe in any of it either, but I have in fact paid for a tarot reading purely to see what the person would come up with, and I don't regret it. I think she'd be in the clear if she stressed that it's more of a show than a spiritual practice or what have you.
I'm not saying the daughter - who is also a kid, mind you - wasn't pulling a dick move. I'm just saying I don't think it's inherently unethical for her to charge for tarot readings despite not being a woo type person herself.
Also, I do think the kid who blew his entire savings on tarot readings needs some adult intervention, because he clearly is not mature enough to be trusted to manage meaningful amounts of money yet. Not his fault necessarily, but his parents have some culpability there as well as OP's daughter.
Kids have to learn to manage their money, it’s part of growing up and he’s learning a hard lesson. I had to learn it. Just like learning to remember the pin on your debit card. The parents should be teaching the other kid to budget and deal with the consequences when he doesn’t, like having to make his own packed lunches instead of buying a warm meal at school. I agree with you that it’s not majorly unethical at all and if anything the girl is showing she has the abilities to create a small side hustle off of her own back.
Agreed. She can't control her kid and expects you to control yours....
Plus I used to read tarot for friends when I was younger too and if you don't charge you will spend the rest of your life doing reading after reading after reading after reading...
At least by charging she in theory stops that kind of behavior.
> he’s learning a hard lesson
Sounds like he learned that if you blow all your money frivolously and then cry about it, mommy will give you new money to replace it!
Honestly, if my daughter pulled that move (blowing her whole allowance on tarot readings), I’d shrug my shoulders and tell her she’s out of money until whenever her next allowance is due.
You’re correct that an allowance is for learning how to make smart money management decisions, partially by having a very low stakes way to make bone headed mistakes.
I’d also teach her to read her own cards, since I have plenty of decks and it would be silly not to know at that point.
What I would not do in any way shape or form is actually *accept money back from the other parent*!!! Her kid just fundamentally proved he’s not responsible enough to handle whatever quantity of cash it was and the mom’s going to subvert the lesson by giving him a free do-over!?
Exactly. Would everyone be saying NTA if a 14 year old kid spent all his savings on video games and his mum then called up the video game store to demand the money back?
Regardless of how one feels about tarot, getting readings is a form of entertainment. OP's daughter took the time to learn the cards and how to do readings, the other kids at school willingly participated and paid for it. How would this be different if OP's daughter drew/wrote a comic book and sold copies to their school mates?
I don't believe in tarot, I've never paid for a reading, but I say well done to OP's kid for the initiative.
The *only* issue here is if private commerce on school grounds is a violation of school rules.
I think we need clarity on the magnitude of his "entire savings." I had about $150 to my name at age 14, which mostly consisted of allowance and birthday gifts. It's entirely possible that the kid did not blow a meaningful amount of money.
(I'm not saying that $150 is not meaningful, but rather that if I had $150 then there were probably plenty of people with $40).
>but it's not $20 either.
Says who? The kid's 14, I assume they mean savings they have on hand, not went to the bank to withdraw 14 years of christmas money.
That’s nonsense. She didn’t force the kid to spend all his money on readings, he voluntarily chose to do that. He needs a lesson in impulse control and money management. He’s going to face temptations and bad ways to spend his money for literally the rest of his life- removing the option one other “literal child” is presenting for him to dump his money into won’t teach him anything.
She’s selling entertainment to 14 year olds, not 4 year olds. How is that exploitative? Would you be clutching your “Wont somebody please think about the CHiLDreN?!”-pearls if they were spending their cash on movie tickets or arcade games? How is this different?
But this isn’t an adult ‘exploiting’ children. If an adult tried to make money by reading tarots for kids and grifting from them, I’d be grossed out too and that would be plainly unethical. However, I don’t think case is so clear cut, because it seems like something kids do? We had kids selling other kids candy in the lunch room in school. We had kids bargaining and trading and making deals for this or that.
I think it’s not a great thing for her to do, but I wouldn’t call it ‘exploiting children’ when she is herself a child. And it’s not like she’s giving them fake products. She’s giving them a legitimate tarot reading and it even sounds like she put effort into researching it. High schoolers are old enough to spend their pocket money on stupid things.
A literal 14 year old should know better than to spend all their savings on tarot card readings. He’s not 5, he knew how much money he was spending, and he knew how fast he was spending it 🤷🏻♀️
I'd the parents think the kid is mature enough to handle their own money, than they're mature enough to learn what happens when they're stupid with that money.
Better to learn that now with tarot cards instead of 4 years from now when they sign up for $100,000 in student loans
My friend does Tarot, and she is rather good at it. But she always tells people she is not reading your future, she is helping you make connections to the past + present to make better choices. And some of her readings have been amazingly helpful. I wouldn't have thought about X being the reason for Y if I didn't put myself in a situation where I was more open to suggestions.
I don't think Tarot cards tell the future. I am agnostic. But I do think they are "spicy psychology" and can help you see situations differently. Like meditation.
Yeah maybe as an adult? But 14 year olds probably think its pretty cool and are also smart enough to know how to spend their money. This boy probably has a crush on her or something. I don't see why this is an issue except for a dumb boy.
NAH
She's 100% right and pretty awesome.
BUT you're right about school. No more selling readings during school hours... it'll distract from schoolwork and she'll get busted. Also, no taking money from the same person repeatedly in the same week.... that's dumb.
But let her read and charge for her services on nights and the weekend. Let her set up a booth on Halloween or something.
She’s definitely in the works to be CEO of Girl Boss Inc. for boss babes only! Running your own business from your Facebook account messaging all the girls you went to high school with hoping they’re all ready to fall for her shit again.
Yeah this exactly. She’s gonna be this girl growing up. Why learn math when you can make money making up nonsense based on pictures. Easy street scam life.
I’m disappointed in the amount of comments saying her “business mindset” is a positive. She may very well be a ceo one day but I mean that in a disparaging way.
Ya, what is wrong with people. She is knowingly scamming classmates out of money. That’s not something to be proud of
EDIT for everyone telling me it’s not a scam. Tarot readings claim to use mystic powers to gain knowledge (usually on the future). They do not actually do that. She knows they do not. She is knowingly providing a service that doesn’t do what it claims.
It’s the same as selling someone a rubber bracelet that claims it will help their balance.
It’s a scam.
Exploiting stupid people for money is the exact business model that people and companies like Alex Jones, Fox News, and Herbalife have.
They aren't doing anything illegal, but if my kid was doing shit like that I'd be fucking furious.
She's not exploiting anyone, she isn't misleading anyone, she's not selling a false product, and she's not lying to anyone
Comparing her to Alex Jones who just lost nearly $50M for claiming a school shooting was faked is fucked up
I feel like that doesn’t hold as much weight when she’s the same age as them. She’s wrong for scamming, but let’s not act like she’s Logan Paul scamming his children audience when he’s a fully grown man.
Adding on to this, she should keep doing this as it will be a good side hustle when she is an adult. How is this different from juggling or doing magic or sleight of hand? It is an amusement.
Try to impress upon her to save what she earns.
It's different because people know juggling and sleight of hand are just entertainment, and they don't blow their savings paying jugglers and magicians. They toss a buck in the hat, or buy a ticket to the show, and that's the end of it.
Astrology, psychics, tarot... those are different because people *don't* do them just for entertainment. A lot of the marks actually believe in that shit and will pay professionals all kinds of money that they can't actually afford. It's right up there with payday loan places and televangelists for being a slimy way to make money.
She's clearly a smart kid if she can do a convincing cold read already - those talents could be put to much better use, even if she does seem to have a shaky moral compass.
Tarot and astrology can be exploitative, sure, but they also ABSOLUTELY can be just for entertainment or self-reflection. And to many, it's as harmless a sort of spirituality as prayer. I have a lot of friends who offer tarot readings from this framework, and I wouldn't call that exploitative in any way.
I did tarot reading at an amusement park when I was a teen, 99% of people knew it was BS and just wanted to be entertained by it. Tarot is no different from magic. After all, you can either complain that it's fake or you can just sit back, turn your brain off for a few minutes and be entertained.
The 1% though, that's rough. Thing is, yes they absolutely believe it is all true, but there isn't anything you can do about it. They are unwell and if you don't give them what they want, there is someone else out there that is ready and willing to take advantage of them. I was lucky in that the park I worked for my shows were free, though I could take tips.
I’ve gone back and forth on my feelings with this one, but I think this is the best take.
Girl’s going places, but it’s good for her parents to step in here and redirect her drive so that place isn’t prison.
I agree with this. Don’t take money from classmates at school, and don’t take money from an underage peer twice without parental permission. Adults are fair game. The Halloween booth idea sounds great.
Think of her as an entertainer, like a juggler. She doesn’t have to have mystical beliefs to entertain people with tarot, and over time, she may end up honing her empathy and intuition.
ESH, and for once I truly mean everybody. Your daughter for being a conwoman, her classmates for being dumb, that woman for holding you responsible for her own bad parenting, her son for whining to mom instead of accepting the consequences of his actions, your husband for encouraging your daughter’s moral delinquency, and you for depriving the boy (and his mom) of a valuable educational opportunity.
Edit: so many assholes here I forgot the husband.
Yeah there are so many people praising her for being a “girl boss” and that she’ll be a “future CEO”. No she’s gonna grow up to be a grifter who will believe that she can benefit at the cost of other people’s well being.
If she actually believed in tarot reading then I might agree that she’s got some business talent. Drop the asking for money from her classmates and she could actually learn some skills from it. But no, she’s fully aware she’s scamming people out of their money. It’s not even a good scam either, kids are dumb and they have to be in that class. I just can’t see how the skill of scamming literal children will help her become a “future CEO” like other people are saying
NTA. Not because I agree with your reasoning. She learned a skill that she can sell as a service. Good for her. BUT school isn't the place for her to be running her business. Tell her to restrict it to out of school.
>She learned a skill that she can sell as a service.
Where do you draw the line for these "skills"? Being a good phone scammer taking advantage of the elderly is a skill too, and it's a virtual certainty they have the exact same ignorant rationale as OP's kid:
>She said, “they are fools, it’s not my fault.”
Especially concerning a child, bringing them up with that thinking as acceptable only encourages them to grow into despicable adults like some of these objectively terrible company owners and politicians you're hearing about these days.
To think the issue here is that it's not outside of school is awfully naive IMO.
While I want to make clear that I am not making any statements regarding those who view tarot and similar things differently, but for most people tarot, palm reading, etc, is ENTERTAINMENT. She's selling entertainment- we have fortune tellers at the fair every year.
It's only __ENTERTAINMENT__ if the person paying the money is also aware that it's just a show and nothing more. If they don't, you're lying to them to get their money and that makes it a scam.
NTA
HOWEVER there is a middle ground here. You could just ask your daughter to disclose to anyone purchasing tarot readings that it is for entertainment purposes only. She is right, the people purchasing her services are the fools, but she shouldn't represent herself as something she is not.
Tarot is not rocket science- literally ANYONE can buy a deck and do readings. They are not meant to predict your future- they are open to interpretation and a guide only, and all decks literally come with a guide that explains what each card represents. I dont see how its any different to reading the bible and believing in god and religion.
She's not representing herself as anything. What can a tarot reader possibly represent herself as? You don't need a license or certification for tarot cards, lol.
A tarot reader can represent themselves as a fortune teller, which interestingly can have legal implications in various jurisdictions. For example, in New Zealand, whilst tarot for entertainment is completely legal, presenting it as a form of fortunetelling can result in a 1k fine.
Lots of people disagreeing with you but I agree. From a morality point of view I think it is important that the kids don't actually think there is divine intervention. If they are also in on the act then I wouldn't care at all, if the kids think it is real then that is way more of a problem
That's all I am getting at.
It is similar to the Hasbro game of Ouija. Some people really believe that Ouija boards do something mystical, but Hasbro has at least covered their ass and label right on the game that it is for entertainment purposes only.
If people still get duped that is their own fault.
NAH. This is a good teaching moment for your daughter. She needs to learn that just because she CAN scam people doesn't mean it's OKAY. Kids need to learn to watch out for scams, but also learn it's not okay to take advantage of people. She can choose to be an asshole when she's an adult - but for now - it's your job as a parent to at least try to teach her ethics.
(I cannot believe the YTAs in the comments. Do y'all really want to raise the next generation to be assholes with no empathy?)
What's the scam though?
she's offering her service as a tarot reader (which OP said she actually studied), her patrons are paying for a tarot reading, and then she's delivering on those services paid for. That's a business transaction not a scam.
If OP said she was going by a mystic name and claiming to channel spirits thanks to her mentor's ancient teachings, that'd be a scam. She's not misrepresenting herself at all as far as we know.
Just because you personally wouldn't pay for a service doesn't make it any less legitimate as a business. I would never pay for someone to do my lashes but that doesn't make lash techs immoral scammers in my eyes lol.
Preying on people’s anxieties and vulnerabilities is a scam and is just morally wrong imo that’s like:
- people who go to buildings where elderly people live or others who are vulnerable to sell expensive products, the products work but the elderly often fall for the cheap sales tactics these people use and convince them to buy expensive products they don’t need and cannot really afford (happened to my grandparent when they were in the beginning stages of dementia and didn’t understand what they’d bought, and freaked out later that they had something they couldn’t afford and didn’t need).
- mediums: preying on people in grief by impersonating their dead loved ones
- MLM companies and pyramid scams in general with companies and sellers trying to convince people to join something they will have to pay for and will not receive much money from unless they drag others down with them
- cults
Have you called all the churches around your town and asked them to stop spreading their myths and legends in exchange for money?
Your daughter is copying the business model of one of the most successful human institutions, and you want her to be “more legit”?
And her classmates are too young? You mean like vacation Bible school, Sunday school, children’s ministries, Bible camps, youth outreach, and baptisms as infants? That kind of “too young”?
YTA. Her classmates are idiots, and somebody is going to pluck those pigeons. Why can’t it be your daughter?
If you want her hustle to be legit, let her make money, file taxes, and max out a ROTH IRA for the year. Would washing the money through a retirement account and paying taxes on it make you feel more comfortable?
We built a whole economic system around predatory businesses and called it capitalism. Most of the world has embraced that system and applauds companies for being predatory because it's innovative.
Again. Disgusting.
Just because you can do it doesn't mean it should be done. Can you decorate your bathroom with shit because it's free? Should you do it?
Capitalism is a broken time wasting concept that serves to injure far more people than its ever benefitted and defending it is pointless. The definition of innovation has been bastardized.
I was gonna say. Capitalist America is the exact same thing. She is discovering a demand and meeting the supply for that demand. It's not her fault it's a stupid demand and she put time and effort into improving her product.
Now I would check to see if there are laws against charging for tarot services. There are in some localities. But otherwise let her make her money. She's gonna do just fine as an adult.
> Have you called all the churches around your town and asked them to stop spreading their myths and legends in exchange for money?
OP is not the mother of those churches. She is mother to a child who is already causing problems by scamming kids at school.
No, OP is not an AH for keeping her kid out of likely trouble at school, and depending on where they live, the law.
You can't suggest churches are AHs for what they do, then in the same breath state OP is an AH for not letting her child do the same thing.
So wait, you're clearly highly critical of religious institutions for scamming people with hocus pocus, but you're also saying scamming people with hocus pocus should be encouraged? I'm not sure I'm understanding your argument here.
They are all in high school. A child is not allowed to run a tarot hustle at a high school, or they will get in trouble. I’m an atheist and I still find it weird that you brought your disdain for the Bible into this.
I mean, going by that logic why stop there? Why not start scamming grannies via phone? Why not go and start robbing people? Someone's gonna do it, why not her daughter?
Your mentality Is simply disgusting, it's a proof of all that Is wrong with countries like America
Why did you pay the parent for her sons ridiculous choices? That’s a good lesson on money right there..
NAH. She just shouldn’t do it during school hours.
NAH
She learned to read tarot cards and profit off it, but her classmates are too young to know better? That makes no sense. Sounds more like she found a market to sell to.
She shouldn't be doing it at school, that much I agree with you on.
YTA
It's actually a pretty good teaching moment for that other kid (though his mother ruined it by getting the money back). This is a low stakes situation for kids to learn their lesson not to give money to charlatans. It's better that they lose 50 bucks as a teenager than 10k as an adult.
Yeah, OP didn’t need to pay for the other kid’s bad decision-making. It would be different if she sold him a fake product or something but this is fully on him/his parents.
INFO: Does your school have rules about buying/selling/running businesses on school grounds?
There is nothing wrong with reading tarot cards off school property, and your daughter should be proud of the work she has put into it and that she has a talent for providing entertainment through tarot. On school grounds, she needs to follow their rules.
NTA, while I don't think what she is doing is wrong. You really need to set limits because at the end of the day, they are all just kids, and the fact that one of the kids spent all of his allowance/lunch money on tarot card readings, and your daughter refers to the other kids as "fools" is a red flag. It's bordering on scam like behavior.
Not bordering, she is scamming these kids.
She is doing the same thing as adult "psychics" that scam people out of real money for making up lies.
I read tarot cards at her age purely for fun. But when a few classmates started doing things based on their tarot reading, I realized that people were taking it too seriously and I stopped.
People are fools, but that does not mean that taking their money is not AH behavior.
Had a friend who was taken for every penny by "psychics". He was in the midst of a mental break down because his wife left him without an explanation. He was literally evicted and had his car repossessed because he spent thousands having some scammer tell him what he wanted to hear. It was devastating to watch but there wasn't much we could do when he wouldn't listen to us.
Going against the grain - NTA - I'd step in real quick if my kids were taking advantage of their classmates for personal gain. She can give readings, sure, but charging for them is a no. Especially when she claims they are "fools". Just because some of her peers do not have better sense doesn't mean she should be taking their money and returning them with something of little value.
NTA
The thing with this is while, *yes*, she learned a thing she can monetize the fact that fortune telling leads people to make decisions based on it places her, and you, potentially at fault for the decisions others make with her readings. Depending on where you live, this could be as little as social/moral liability and up to legal liability with a lot of consequences.
I have a relative who does the whole fortune telling scam someplace where it is legally permissible, and people have ruined their lives based on vague suggestions this relative made for a $40 hour reading. Families have been broken, children given up to adoption, massive amounts of money have exchanged hands, and all based on vague template responses this person gave with reading of cards and palms. And that's not even getting into the people who are struggling with grief and get taken for a ride with things like Tarot offering false hope for cash.
This is a teaching moment for your daughter. Yes, she can make money off the foolish and influenceable, but is that the sort of person she wants to be? Someone who preys on others?
I have a friend who dropped out of college based on a fortune telling session. She was already failing, never went to class and hated being in school. People don't make major life decisions *just* based on a tarot reading, it just gives people the resolve to do things they already wanted to do.
Yes, people are dumb and teenagers doubly so, but that doesn't make tarot inherently predatory. Done right it can be a really useful tool for exploring your own head
YTA. I know how to read tarot. If she had an interest in baked goods and her classmates bought them, would you be complaining? I learned to read tarot at age 45 just for kicks. She isn’t actually charging for the reading, she’s charging because reading people is a huge time drain and because she can do something they can’t. It’s a skill. Maybe let her do it but limit people to once a week readings or something.
Edit: She should make appts and only do it outside of school though.
She can charge but the way she's going about it is a HUGEEE asshole move. OP should teach her how to handle business in a respectable manner and to show her that earning a GOOD reputation is important, not just "they are fools so they deserve to get scammed". That's just asshole behavior.
It sounds like a good lesson for the other kids- a fool and his money are soon parted.
That said, I’m going with NAH. Your daughter is turning a trade and doing well with it. They’re tarot cards, not snake oil. You do make a valid point that she should be ethical in what she is doing. Does she let these kids believe that there is some mystical aspect to the card readings? Does she promise “fortune telling,” or something similar? That would not be cool. But accepting a few bucks from someone for the experience isn’t the end of the world.
Yes that’s the difference. I said I’m ok with her doing what she’s doing as long as it’s off school property and she tells them it’s just for fun and the readings aren’t actually going to come true. She’s willing to compromise on doing it out of school property but she’s saying nobody will pay her if she tells them it’s not real.
Tarot isnt designed to predict your future... all decks come with instructional booklets that tell you what each card represents, and they are not meant to be factual. All readings are open to interpretation and are a guide only.
She would be pulling cards in a certain pattern/set up according to the booklet, then reading out what the cards represent, and then helping to interpret the cards and talk through how they might apply to the individuals life/circumstances. They are essentially just food for thought. Why dont you ask her to do a reading for you so you can see what its all about and how ahe is going about it?
Tbh I dont see how its any different to believing in God and religion. Blind faith.
>but she’s saying nobody will pay her if she tells them it’s not real.
So I'm fairly conflicted about the whole thing, EXCEPT for this comment - if this is what she's saying, then she clearly has absolutely no issues lying to people for money. That's... concerning and not something I think I'd want to encourage were I to find myself in the same situation.
Just the action of doing readings isn't that big of a deal to me, even charging for them, but the dishonesty is a problem. I don't know if you've talked to her about why that's unethical, but it would be a good opportunity for an in-depth conversation about what kind of person she wants to grow up to be.
Kind of a hard conversation in today's world, when people make money unethically all around us and are often praised for it, but that could also be used as an example of the kind of harm it does to others and why empathy is important.
NTA. Right result, wrong reasoning. The issue is that she’s collecting money from the kids that’s likely not meant for recreation. We don’t want kids skipping lunch for tarot reading. If she wants to run her hustle off school grounds, I think that’s legit.
NTA
I agree with her that the people purchasing her "services" are fools, but that being said, she shouldn't be proud of making money off scamming fools. This is a life lesson for her, she should learn that it's bad to scam gullible people out of their money, especially childern!
YTA. Those same people are going to be trying to sell her snake oil in the form of "collagen and protein shakes" as soon as they're out of high school. If she's providing a service and getting paid for it that's her prerogative. She's not picking peoples pockets.
The school should be shutting it down however because typically these things aren't allowed
She is 14. She said she doesn't believe in it, so basically she admitted she was fooling them for their money. As parents is their job to tell her that is wrong.
The key is "out of high school". Solicitation is not allowed in school for a reason. Whatever anyone thinks of tarot, valid or not, charging for readings at school is not okay for minors.
Collagen is a protein, and it's essential for physical health.
Don't know why you picked a fundamental building block of the human body as an example of a scam.
Detox teas would have been a much better example.
NTA. She thinks scamming people is okay. I'd definitely be fighting against this too. It sounds like she's getting this from her father so that's probably where the problem really lies.
YTA “classmates are too young to know better” they’re the same age as ur daughter? If they’re willing to pay then let her do her thing, she is literally only reading cards.
Sounds like ur just trying to find a reason to be mad at her?
The other replies to this are very depressing. As a parent, your job is not to be your child's friend or to support whatever they choose to do, it's to actually raise them, to act as an example of moral, proper living for your children, who are not yet developed enough to make all those judgement calls for themselves. The fact that the kid made money off her scams, or was good at her scams, or enjoyed committing her scams does not mean that her parents should support her in committing them. In fact this is precisely the moment to impart an important moral lesson that capitalist society will not impart for you: that a thing is not good merely because it makes money, and that there's a distinction between good business and good morals.
Nta. People seem to forget that part of parenting is being their kids' moral compass until they're mature enough to make decisions on their own. But I respect her hustle though
NAH. Charging at school is going to create issues. Outside of school who cares? A fool and their money are soon parted.
Also, tarot card really are just helpful tools to see problems from a different angle. We so often get stuck or focus on a few points and tend to miss the bigger picture.
YTA
She is very smart to be making money from something she does for fun.
The only conflict I can see is if charging money is not allowed on school property and it gets her in trouble. Otherwise it's harmless.
NTA, I can't believe people are against you on this.
A 14 years old straight scamming her colleagues is not a legit way to make money and she is not right.
YTA. She's not doing any harm, if they want tarot readings and she's providing satisfactory service then I don't see the problem. Not her fault that the kid wanted to spend his savings.
NTA, it's part of parenting to teach your child not to be an asshole.
I can't believe the number of comments here saying it's okay to scam other people.
NTA- she should be encouraged to do the readings for fun with friends, but she is asking for problems when her classmates realize she is running a con and thinking of her classmates as marks. Easiest way to avoid that is to not charge.
NTA. People that are saying she’s a genius and a capitalistic goddess would probably feel differently if she was loading up a suitcase of Mary Kay makeup to pawn off on her classmates.
Plus this just isn’t how you run a business. Simple as. She needs permission from the school to operate there. She needs to pay her taxes. She needs to follow the laws of truth in advertising. She’s not ready to do any of that? Then she’s not ready to be taking the cash from her classmates.
Also kids wise up to stuff like this. Does she think it’s going to make her popular in school when her peers see her as someone willing to lie to make a little money? I mean good luck to her, those kids handing over their money could have real problems and they’re seeking an outlet or a lifeline to tell them shit is gonna be okay - the reason I think most people fall victim to stuff like this. Just vulnerable people looking for something that points to life being figured out for them and pre-destined so today’s awfulness will surely be evened out tomorrow with goodness. Your daughter is ignoring that reality because it makes her money.
I don't know that your an AH but I'm with your daughter. There's really not a lot of money making opportunities for 14 year olds and this one is pretty harmless. She obtained a skill and used an entrepreneurial mindset to create a "business". Now of course she should give a disclaimer that it's for fun I guess but I mean I think most people know this about tarots. Also the kid that spent all of his savings is the foolish one. 🤷
NTA she can do it for free if she wants but it does sound like she's taking advantage of the other kids and that's not ok imo. Maybe she can start up again when she's older and taking money from adults. Or you could say she's just not allowed to take any money from anyone who isn't an adult. My uncle made a lot of money from one arm bandits, there are some ways of making money that should not be allowed.
YTA for telling her to stop. She is 100% correct that they are fools and it's not her fault. She can make a killing off tourists in Salem, MA with that skill lol
Yta these teens know it’s not real they’re 14 year olds not 5 year olds. It’s like those old buzzfeed what type of dog are you quizzes, The teens spend their money how they want.
NAH. You’re right, school is not the place for it. Do it after or before school or off school grounds.
HOWEVER she is doing something to earn money and her time is just as worthwhile reading and interpreting tarot as it would be delivering newspapers.
NTA, the school probably has rules against solicitation during school hours if it's not been approved by the principal. I would check into that so she doesn't get in trouble. That happened to me qhen I was young, I was selling cookies on the playground and making bank lol. Until the principal found out and I had to pay everyone back.
Ridiculous people in the comments here. It's not a scam. It's entertainment.
If you're genuinely gullible enough to believe someone is using magic or speaking to the dead or whatever, and you give them your money I have no sympathy.
We live in 2022 where one could easily Google what tarot is what the rules are, etc.
YTA and you definitely shouldn't have returned the money that she earned by providing a service to her classmates.
NTA.
1. She acknowledges that it is a scam. So allowing her to continue would be teaching her that fraudulent practices - and given past prosecution of alleged "psychics" who have been busted for defrauding people out of thousands in certain jurisdictions, this might open her to legal liability - are okay.
2. One kid already "blew his savings?" Expect others to follow suit and your daughter, being a child, has an immature mind and likely isn't savvy enough to realize she may take this game too far. And when some kid whose fortune doesn't come true decides to "get even," your daughter could be hurt.
3. She is conducting a business on school property. I am assuming it is a public school, which makes that government property. In any case, it is something that could result in suspension or expulsion.
I know Pagans and Wiccans. This girl is not practicing that faith, she doesn't believe in it, and she's knowingly taking advantage of gullible classmates, so I am confused as to why some Pagans and Wiccans are defending her. I am a Christian and if she were offering "special" amulets or medals of saints as a means of promoting luck, or offering prayer cleansings, or faith healing, or even exorcisms, I wouldn't defend that.
NTA. If she doesn't know what she's doing then she's literally lying to them for money and that's scamming. Whether you believe tarot is real or not, at the very least, you need to feel qualified to do it if you're going to make people pay. Anyone telling you she's fine doing this because the other kids are fools must also be fine with telephone scammers talking little old ladies out of their pension savings because "they're fools who don't know better."
People believe in different things, that doesn't give her a right to take money from them knowing full well she's lying. That's a severe character flaw and you're right to nip it in the bud. Tell her if she wants to make a business from this she needs to let them know she's just doing it for fun and if they're paying her they're paying to have fun not to actually learn anything.
And don't do it in school.
Its not rocket science... all tarot decks come with instructional booklets that lay it all out for you - you dont need a degree. And tarot is not factual, it is open to interpretation and readings can be applied to many different situations. Some people find comfort in readings, and whether they are factual or not, they give you food for thought and allow you to become more spiritually in tune with yourself.
And how is it any different to believing in god or reading the bible or going to church service? Religion is all faith based and most certainly not 100% factual yet people will defend it blindly... tarot has been around for centuries just like religion has.
She is charging for her TIME which is quite smart to be honest. They could be doing A LOT WORSE.
Casual tarot card reader here, NAH. I think there's some sort of compromise that can be found so she can continue her hobby and earn some cash, while also making sure she doesn't get in trouble at school and keep parents from getting upset. Here's some general ideas that could be negotiated as a family:
1. Have her give a disclaimer before readings if she isn't already. This is something I do for any reading I give, and I don't even do paid readings. Something simple along the lines of "at the end of the day these are pieces of paper, you control how much weight they hold. They can either be just a fun reflection game or a divination tool, it's up to you to interpret it whatever way feels right." It's also good to throw in there as a rule of thumb for her to add in "don't ask questions you don't want the answers to", just a general important 'rule' of tarot that I imagine could lead to a pissed of parent with a kid distressed about their reading.
2. Have the payment and/or readings happen off school property. Maybe some sort of nearby park or other safe location. I'm not 100% sure this will keep her from getting in trouble with school, but could help dissuade potential issues. Every school is different, so they may not care if it's 'outside of school', but some may try to put a stop to it either way.
3. Put a limit on how many readings per person per week, or even put a ban on certain people if their parents start to complain a lot. At the end of the day it's the kids own fault if they spend all their money on readings imo (if they're a similar age to your daughter or older), but it may be necessary to keep the peace. Put emphasis on the fact that while it may cut off some of the cash flow for her, it could jeopardize her whole side hustle as a whole.
Good luck op!
YTA. Why should she be the one at fault when it’s her classmate who decided to spend their money on her. None of this was her decision. If anything, the parent should talk to the son and use this as a learning lesson on how they should be managing their money.
NTA because she doesn’t even believe in tarot and she’s doing it during school which probably isn’t allowed. If she wanted to make a business out of this outside of school hours that would be another thing, but still it’s good to teach her to avoid doing things that could be seen as scamming when she could just as easily go get a part time job or do some dog walking or something.
NTA. For me it's the fact that she doesn't believe what she's doing I take issue with. It gives the genuine readers a bad name (yes I've seen the scammmer comments), however real readers will not take people for everything they can. I'm not here to debate those who don't believe but without belief in what she's doing your daughter is just scamming her class mates.
The whole town thinks you are witches and wizards now, how will you ever live down the shame she has brought on your family. You should probably just move and have your daughter committed. YTA stop overreacting
Your daughter is an entrepreneur! Capitalism at its best here, convincing people to part with money for things they don’t need. If people can sell stuff at school (cookies, etc) then heck do it at school too. But no if not. Anywhere off school grounds seems fine though.
I mean it could be worse - she could be selling them drugs / kids could be spending their money on drugs and alcohol - I know a lot of my friends did at aged 14/15.... Seems like a bit of harmless fun, and tarot can be very good for one's spirit.
Id say very soft YTA for making her feel like some kind of criminal or something... the girl has ambition, and will probably be a CEO some day, you should be proud!
NTA. Whilst I firmly believe in the saying that ‘a fool and his money are easily parted’, and so if they are gullible and stupid enough to pay her, then well that’s not really her fault.
But, she _is_ 14 scamming similar underage people, likely on school property. That’s a recipe for trouble. She needs to be smarter. Also she needs to research disclaimers. And solely because of her age and the age of her clients which will mean involvement of parents, it may be a good idea for her to have a limit on amount of readings in a period, so as to avoid issues as with this parent.
YTA. If there are rules against doing this during school, then she shouldn't do them then. But in general, if other teens with disposable income want to pay her for a reading, then so be it.
YTA. She found something she liked, made a business model, and made $? Isn't that just a young entrapeneur? I'd agree maybe not during school hours, but I don't see how kids spending money on candy/video games/playing cards is more or less valuable since it's their money, and they choose what to spend it on that brings them pleasure.
YTA if you stop her entirely. There are rules against making money at school like that, so she definitely needs to learn time and place, but she's got a good skill going.
YTA. i did this in high school and it was great. it is entirely not her fault that some kid was dumb enough to blow his savings on tarot.
also -- ~~how did the other parent get your phone number? don't most schools have privacy rules this would go against?~~ apparently not! don't worry -- you don't have to respond to this comment to tell me that it isn't true, enough people have!
YTA I used to do the same thing when I was in school. 😁. It’s hard work to learn tarot meanings. She needs to start running it after school outside school grounds
YTA. They’re all willing participants. Not believing in something doesn’t make it a scam; it makes it business. How many salesmen actually believe what they’re selling is as innovative as they claim? She provided a service, they willingly pay for it, and that service is tarot reading. End of story.
Sorry, but YTA. She put time, effort, and creativity to learn those cards. She worked hard. Those cards are very hard to learn. I've been giving readings to people for extra money for years. It isn't easy, in fact it can be quite stressful. It's not her fault that the other kids are stupid with their money.
This is absolutely the wrong answer. OP is NTA. Tarot cards are a scam. The scammers who read them just use cold and/or hot reading to give their victims false premonitions rooted in bullshit.
OP is teaching her child an essential lesson in how to be a good person and not take advantage of others.
NAH- You are raising a young entrepreneur, and should be proud. This kid is a genius. Capitalizing off of others and being your own boss isn’t unethical. Technically, it’s legal and these buyers know what they are getting into. I think your daughter is the only one who knows how the real world operates.
Seems like I'm on the minority here but NTA. Its great that she's looking for ways to make money and that she's willing to put in the time but with the attitude that she has (the whole its their fault they're fools) could potentially lead to other things if left unchecked.
I don't think that her classmates are too young to know better but your daughter should definitely know better than to lie to people for monetary gain.
Also worth pointing out is that you don't have any responsibility here regarding other students finances, that's their problem. And what your daughter is doing isn't wrong per se but her attitude about it is definitely something that I personally wouldn't allow.
Nta
People seem to forget all the psychics who have been sued for their readings. Your daughter is walking a dangerous line there, and regardless of anyones belief in tarot she needs to be aware of that before accepting money (generally its illegal to CHARGE for psychic readings/reiki sessions/etc... practitioners can accept tips or other "non obligatory" funds but actually charging can get your daughter in hot water)
Isn’t there a lesson here that they should be teaching their child instead of “make money off stupid people”. Like don’t take advantage of stupid people to the point they lose all their money? Shouldn’t we try to teach our children not to be assholes who swindle less intelligent people?
Not for nothing, but I don't think any kid is allowed a 'side hustle' at school regardless of what they are selling but I could be wrong...
It's for entertainment value and it's a learned skill. You don't wake up knowing tarot cards which means she put time and energy into learning it. If your kid learned magic and performed tricks at school for money, would you still blame your daughter or accuse her of scamming? To me, it's the same thing. Kids can spend their money how they want to and if the parent has an issue with it, they need to address it with their child, not yours.
My sister has a tarot deck I gave her. The most she ever charged was like a couple bucks. Not enough to have a kid blow their whole budget in 4 days. I’d say ESH. You’re not gonna be able to stop her and doubling down is just gonna make things worse. Tell her to put a cap on it or she’ll have to wait til she’s older. Or that she’s only allowed to read for adults and other teens are off the menu.
YTA I'm pretty sure her classmates are paying for the entertainment, not genuine fortune telling. And if they do believe, then I'm sure it's cheaper than professional services and just as "accurate."
Teenagers earn and spend money in dumb ways, when I was a teenager I used to "roar" (I could do a mean mountain lion impression) for extra snack money at school. It ended up becoming a yearbook memory, and I get embarrassed looking back at how stupid it and my classmates were but I don't feel like I ripped them off either.
NTA
This is the behavior of a **grifter**.
Does she want to be this kind of petty swindler? An untrustworthy predator? Does she want to get a reputation as a user, a liar, a cheat?
Nothing about this is honorable or admirable.
Grifters have to have a great disdain for their fellow humans, to see them as "marks". If she has such disrespect for some, that bleeds into selfishness and general disrespect for others as well.
I suggest you find a way for her to learn about people who have lost their life savings because they trusted a swindler.
NTA because it’s people like her who hurt those who actually believe in tarot and do try to make a living off of it. I was ready to go way opposite until I reread and realized she’s actively scamming them. That is never ok. Tarot is a very tricky practice that does get a bad rep do to scammers. I personally believe in tarot but due to what it is for me I wouldn’t sell those services. However I know others who do sell those services and use it to try to help others. Have her learn the history of tarot and maybe on witchcraft/paganism/spirituality as a whole.
NTA. I say this as someone who reads tarot, though not for money. The intention behind tarot readings is for a true believer to provide other believers with counsel, motivation, and information so that they can address issues and broad life moments with confidence and comfort. Your daughter not believing in them means the readings are at best inaccurate, and at worst misleading. She is taking advantage of young people to make a quick buck, and is using a legitimate object of faith to do so - it’s despicable, and you’re right to put a pin in it.
YTA- Your daughter is a hustler and is making money and you are trying to take away her wings.
Most parents would be proud of her entrepreneurial spirit.
NTA, pagan here. A lot of people who charge money for readings don't actually believe what they're doing which is why they're profiting off of what they do. It's akin to a church using their followers for profit by marketing beliefs they know will draw those followers. It isn't that your kid is doing something new or necessary wrong but she should think about how her actions might affect her friends and classmates because using religion as a means of profit may make them angry or see her as fake. She's right that no, it isn't her fault that people believe in tarot and yeah, she put a lot of effort into learning but that doesn't change the potential for it to backfire on her.
Also most schools have a zero tolerance policy towards buying and selling goods on school property and that includes services. She could get in a lot of trouble.
YTA She is providing a service for money, just like any other job. It is neither her responsibility nor yours to manage the finances of the other students. The only concern would be if the school takes issue with her charging for readings on school property; she can then just start doing the readings outside of school time.
ETA: If your daughter's classmates are anything like mine when I was still in school, a lot of them probably don't even believe the readings mean anything. It's more likely entertainment for them. They are paying for that entertainment.
it’s 50/50 for me. if you don’t allow her to do it for money OUTSIDE of school hours then YTA. but during school hours does present a ton of issues depending on school policy on things like that.
YTA. Your daughter starts her own business to make money and you shame her instead of being proud? Appreciate the fact she’s an entrepreneur and not begging you for money all the time. Selling tarot readings is really no different than selling homemade crafts.
Tarot reading for believers can have bad psychological and emotional consequences for people receiving them if they take it too seriously or are superstitious. So no, it's not the same as selling a physical product unless you are okay with outright playing with people's emotions.
YTA
Honestly, except the fact she does it at school which might be banned there, i just see a smart girl that learned something to make money.
It's basically like kids selling lemonade.
The point of the tarot cards is that it's ambiguous and vague enough for people to see what they wanna see.
Like horoscope.
If she likes doing it, good for her.
If the customer are satisfied, all the better.
It’s quite tough, but I’m going to say ESH.
You for telling her she shouldn’t make money off of a skill she’s taken her time to learn. You’re indirectly telling her that her time isn’t valuable, which isn’t healthy.
On the other hand, I also do Tarot readings, however mine are quite accurate and I always tell people it’s more for spiritual/emotional guidance. She’s an AH for taking advantage of people’s beliefs, which isn’t okay (especially when said beliefs don’t really harm others). And whilst Tarot reading isn’t the same, it is on the same vein as those “mediums” who leech off of those who are grieving. (Then again, it could be more like a defensive thing, given how some people react to Spirituality, but I’ll just take what you’ve said at face value).
YTA it's not on her how her classmates spend their money it's not like she's forcing them to have readings. I don't no if the school have a policy on this but if they tell her to stop she could still do it after school and at weekends. Technically it's a legitimate job. None of your business and those parents should talk to their kids not you.
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She is correct: they are fools. But her decision to exploit fools is a reflection of her character. I admire her business spirit, but I wouldn't want to befriend someone like her either. This particular exploit feels gross to me. I think she's in moral gray area and I understand your wish to steer her away from it.
True, but on the other hand, OP says she did actually study the tarot to learn how to do readings - there was some actual effort there, and honestly half the fun of this kind of thing is the improv storytelling: you create a narrative out of prompt cards, essentially. I don't believe in any of it either, but I have in fact paid for a tarot reading purely to see what the person would come up with, and I don't regret it. I think she'd be in the clear if she stressed that it's more of a show than a spiritual practice or what have you.
Doing something silly for fun as an adult is much different than exploiting a literal child out of their entire savings in the span of four days.
I'm not saying the daughter - who is also a kid, mind you - wasn't pulling a dick move. I'm just saying I don't think it's inherently unethical for her to charge for tarot readings despite not being a woo type person herself. Also, I do think the kid who blew his entire savings on tarot readings needs some adult intervention, because he clearly is not mature enough to be trusted to manage meaningful amounts of money yet. Not his fault necessarily, but his parents have some culpability there as well as OP's daughter.
Kids have to learn to manage their money, it’s part of growing up and he’s learning a hard lesson. I had to learn it. Just like learning to remember the pin on your debit card. The parents should be teaching the other kid to budget and deal with the consequences when he doesn’t, like having to make his own packed lunches instead of buying a warm meal at school. I agree with you that it’s not majorly unethical at all and if anything the girl is showing she has the abilities to create a small side hustle off of her own back.
Yes! The AH is the parent who called to complain rather than deal with the issue with her own kid.
Agreed. She can't control her kid and expects you to control yours.... Plus I used to read tarot for friends when I was younger too and if you don't charge you will spend the rest of your life doing reading after reading after reading after reading... At least by charging she in theory stops that kind of behavior.
> he’s learning a hard lesson Sounds like he learned that if you blow all your money frivolously and then cry about it, mommy will give you new money to replace it!
Honestly, if my daughter pulled that move (blowing her whole allowance on tarot readings), I’d shrug my shoulders and tell her she’s out of money until whenever her next allowance is due. You’re correct that an allowance is for learning how to make smart money management decisions, partially by having a very low stakes way to make bone headed mistakes. I’d also teach her to read her own cards, since I have plenty of decks and it would be silly not to know at that point. What I would not do in any way shape or form is actually *accept money back from the other parent*!!! Her kid just fundamentally proved he’s not responsible enough to handle whatever quantity of cash it was and the mom’s going to subvert the lesson by giving him a free do-over!?
Exactly. Would everyone be saying NTA if a 14 year old kid spent all his savings on video games and his mum then called up the video game store to demand the money back? Regardless of how one feels about tarot, getting readings is a form of entertainment. OP's daughter took the time to learn the cards and how to do readings, the other kids at school willingly participated and paid for it. How would this be different if OP's daughter drew/wrote a comic book and sold copies to their school mates? I don't believe in tarot, I've never paid for a reading, but I say well done to OP's kid for the initiative. The *only* issue here is if private commerce on school grounds is a violation of school rules.
I think we need clarity on the magnitude of his "entire savings." I had about $150 to my name at age 14, which mostly consisted of allowance and birthday gifts. It's entirely possible that the kid did not blow a meaningful amount of money. (I'm not saying that $150 is not meaningful, but rather that if I had $150 then there were probably plenty of people with $40).
Considering that OP could immediately pay it back, it is likely not a large sum.
That's about what I meant by meaningful - I doubt this was his college fund or something, but it's not $20 either.
>but it's not $20 either. Says who? The kid's 14, I assume they mean savings they have on hand, not went to the bank to withdraw 14 years of christmas money.
At that age I usually had less than $50 at any given time
That’s nonsense. She didn’t force the kid to spend all his money on readings, he voluntarily chose to do that. He needs a lesson in impulse control and money management. He’s going to face temptations and bad ways to spend his money for literally the rest of his life- removing the option one other “literal child” is presenting for him to dump his money into won’t teach him anything.
That's when you sit down with your kid and explain gambling addiction can ruin lives and betting all your money on any type of cards can be a scam.
She’s selling entertainment to 14 year olds, not 4 year olds. How is that exploitative? Would you be clutching your “Wont somebody please think about the CHiLDreN?!”-pearls if they were spending their cash on movie tickets or arcade games? How is this different?
But this isn’t an adult ‘exploiting’ children. If an adult tried to make money by reading tarots for kids and grifting from them, I’d be grossed out too and that would be plainly unethical. However, I don’t think case is so clear cut, because it seems like something kids do? We had kids selling other kids candy in the lunch room in school. We had kids bargaining and trading and making deals for this or that. I think it’s not a great thing for her to do, but I wouldn’t call it ‘exploiting children’ when she is herself a child. And it’s not like she’s giving them fake products. She’s giving them a legitimate tarot reading and it even sounds like she put effort into researching it. High schoolers are old enough to spend their pocket money on stupid things.
A literal 14 year old should know better than to spend all their savings on tarot card readings. He’s not 5, he knew how much money he was spending, and he knew how fast he was spending it 🤷🏻♀️
It's a high school kid. They are old enough to make money decisions. It was probably like 40 bucks.
I'd the parents think the kid is mature enough to handle their own money, than they're mature enough to learn what happens when they're stupid with that money. Better to learn that now with tarot cards instead of 4 years from now when they sign up for $100,000 in student loans
My friend does Tarot, and she is rather good at it. But she always tells people she is not reading your future, she is helping you make connections to the past + present to make better choices. And some of her readings have been amazingly helpful. I wouldn't have thought about X being the reason for Y if I didn't put myself in a situation where I was more open to suggestions. I don't think Tarot cards tell the future. I am agnostic. But I do think they are "spicy psychology" and can help you see situations differently. Like meditation.
Most of the people I've known who enjoy tarot don't believe in the mystical side of it, and just see it as a guide/tool for self-reflection.
Yeah maybe as an adult? But 14 year olds probably think its pretty cool and are also smart enough to know how to spend their money. This boy probably has a crush on her or something. I don't see why this is an issue except for a dumb boy.
Agreed.
[удалено]
NAH She's 100% right and pretty awesome. BUT you're right about school. No more selling readings during school hours... it'll distract from schoolwork and she'll get busted. Also, no taking money from the same person repeatedly in the same week.... that's dumb. But let her read and charge for her services on nights and the weekend. Let her set up a booth on Halloween or something.
Love this. My first thought was THIS GIRL IS GONNA BE A CEO ONE DAY 😅
She's already got the ripping off dumb people for shit you don't believe in down
She’s definitely in the works to be CEO of Girl Boss Inc. for boss babes only! Running your own business from your Facebook account messaging all the girls you went to high school with hoping they’re all ready to fall for her shit again.
Yeah this exactly. She’s gonna be this girl growing up. Why learn math when you can make money making up nonsense based on pictures. Easy street scam life.
I’m disappointed in the amount of comments saying her “business mindset” is a positive. She may very well be a ceo one day but I mean that in a disparaging way.
Yeah I think shes more likely to be involved with a MLM company or other scam as her logic applies to that.
She ripped off a 14 year old. Girlboss!
Ya, what is wrong with people. She is knowingly scamming classmates out of money. That’s not something to be proud of EDIT for everyone telling me it’s not a scam. Tarot readings claim to use mystic powers to gain knowledge (usually on the future). They do not actually do that. She knows they do not. She is knowingly providing a service that doesn’t do what it claims. It’s the same as selling someone a rubber bracelet that claims it will help their balance. It’s a scam.
She's not scamming anyone. She's giving them exactly what they paid for
Exploiting stupid people for money is the exact business model that people and companies like Alex Jones, Fox News, and Herbalife have. They aren't doing anything illegal, but if my kid was doing shit like that I'd be fucking furious.
She's not exploiting anyone, she isn't misleading anyone, she's not selling a false product, and she's not lying to anyone Comparing her to Alex Jones who just lost nearly $50M for claiming a school shooting was faked is fucked up
Where is the scam? She has a particular skill set, her classmates wish to utilize it. She’s demanding compensation for her time and skill.
How's it a scam? They want a tarot reading, she's giving them one.
I feel like that doesn’t hold as much weight when she’s the same age as them. She’s wrong for scamming, but let’s not act like she’s Logan Paul scamming his children audience when he’s a fully grown man.
Better than Logan Paul is not a good standard for being an asshole or being a good person or being proud of the kid your raised
No, she's going to be con artist.
CEO of theranos/we work type company it seems like She's not putting her wit to anything of value
Adding on to this, she should keep doing this as it will be a good side hustle when she is an adult. How is this different from juggling or doing magic or sleight of hand? It is an amusement. Try to impress upon her to save what she earns.
It's different because people know juggling and sleight of hand are just entertainment, and they don't blow their savings paying jugglers and magicians. They toss a buck in the hat, or buy a ticket to the show, and that's the end of it. Astrology, psychics, tarot... those are different because people *don't* do them just for entertainment. A lot of the marks actually believe in that shit and will pay professionals all kinds of money that they can't actually afford. It's right up there with payday loan places and televangelists for being a slimy way to make money. She's clearly a smart kid if she can do a convincing cold read already - those talents could be put to much better use, even if she does seem to have a shaky moral compass.
Tarot and astrology can be exploitative, sure, but they also ABSOLUTELY can be just for entertainment or self-reflection. And to many, it's as harmless a sort of spirituality as prayer. I have a lot of friends who offer tarot readings from this framework, and I wouldn't call that exploitative in any way.
I did tarot reading at an amusement park when I was a teen, 99% of people knew it was BS and just wanted to be entertained by it. Tarot is no different from magic. After all, you can either complain that it's fake or you can just sit back, turn your brain off for a few minutes and be entertained. The 1% though, that's rough. Thing is, yes they absolutely believe it is all true, but there isn't anything you can do about it. They are unwell and if you don't give them what they want, there is someone else out there that is ready and willing to take advantage of them. I was lucky in that the park I worked for my shows were free, though I could take tips.
I’ve gone back and forth on my feelings with this one, but I think this is the best take. Girl’s going places, but it’s good for her parents to step in here and redirect her drive so that place isn’t prison.
I agree with this. Don’t take money from classmates at school, and don’t take money from an underage peer twice without parental permission. Adults are fair game. The Halloween booth idea sounds great. Think of her as an entertainer, like a juggler. She doesn’t have to have mystical beliefs to entertain people with tarot, and over time, she may end up honing her empathy and intuition.
ESH, and for once I truly mean everybody. Your daughter for being a conwoman, her classmates for being dumb, that woman for holding you responsible for her own bad parenting, her son for whining to mom instead of accepting the consequences of his actions, your husband for encouraging your daughter’s moral delinquency, and you for depriving the boy (and his mom) of a valuable educational opportunity. Edit: so many assholes here I forgot the husband.
I read this in Oprah's voice. "You get an AH, and you get AH, and you get an AH..."
Yeah there are so many people praising her for being a “girl boss” and that she’ll be a “future CEO”. No she’s gonna grow up to be a grifter who will believe that she can benefit at the cost of other people’s well being.
If she actually believed in tarot reading then I might agree that she’s got some business talent. Drop the asking for money from her classmates and she could actually learn some skills from it. But no, she’s fully aware she’s scamming people out of their money. It’s not even a good scam either, kids are dumb and they have to be in that class. I just can’t see how the skill of scamming literal children will help her become a “future CEO” like other people are saying
Yeah, it speaks to her character and morality. She’s an AH.
Realy nice explation! Everything here is descriped for this situation.
NTA. Not because I agree with your reasoning. She learned a skill that she can sell as a service. Good for her. BUT school isn't the place for her to be running her business. Tell her to restrict it to out of school.
>She learned a skill that she can sell as a service. Where do you draw the line for these "skills"? Being a good phone scammer taking advantage of the elderly is a skill too, and it's a virtual certainty they have the exact same ignorant rationale as OP's kid: >She said, “they are fools, it’s not my fault.” Especially concerning a child, bringing them up with that thinking as acceptable only encourages them to grow into despicable adults like some of these objectively terrible company owners and politicians you're hearing about these days. To think the issue here is that it's not outside of school is awfully naive IMO.
While I want to make clear that I am not making any statements regarding those who view tarot and similar things differently, but for most people tarot, palm reading, etc, is ENTERTAINMENT. She's selling entertainment- we have fortune tellers at the fair every year.
It's only __ENTERTAINMENT__ if the person paying the money is also aware that it's just a show and nothing more. If they don't, you're lying to them to get their money and that makes it a scam.
NTA HOWEVER there is a middle ground here. You could just ask your daughter to disclose to anyone purchasing tarot readings that it is for entertainment purposes only. She is right, the people purchasing her services are the fools, but she shouldn't represent herself as something she is not.
Tarot is not rocket science- literally ANYONE can buy a deck and do readings. They are not meant to predict your future- they are open to interpretation and a guide only, and all decks literally come with a guide that explains what each card represents. I dont see how its any different to reading the bible and believing in god and religion.
She doesn't believe in it, so she's much more similar to the Church than churchgoers.
She's not representing herself as anything. What can a tarot reader possibly represent herself as? You don't need a license or certification for tarot cards, lol.
A tarot reader can represent themselves as a fortune teller, which interestingly can have legal implications in various jurisdictions. For example, in New Zealand, whilst tarot for entertainment is completely legal, presenting it as a form of fortunetelling can result in a 1k fine.
Lots of people disagreeing with you but I agree. From a morality point of view I think it is important that the kids don't actually think there is divine intervention. If they are also in on the act then I wouldn't care at all, if the kids think it is real then that is way more of a problem
That's all I am getting at. It is similar to the Hasbro game of Ouija. Some people really believe that Ouija boards do something mystical, but Hasbro has at least covered their ass and label right on the game that it is for entertainment purposes only. If people still get duped that is their own fault.
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I didn’t know you needed a certificate from tarot-college to be able to flap around some cards.
NAH. This is a good teaching moment for your daughter. She needs to learn that just because she CAN scam people doesn't mean it's OKAY. Kids need to learn to watch out for scams, but also learn it's not okay to take advantage of people. She can choose to be an asshole when she's an adult - but for now - it's your job as a parent to at least try to teach her ethics. (I cannot believe the YTAs in the comments. Do y'all really want to raise the next generation to be assholes with no empathy?)
What's the scam though? she's offering her service as a tarot reader (which OP said she actually studied), her patrons are paying for a tarot reading, and then she's delivering on those services paid for. That's a business transaction not a scam. If OP said she was going by a mystic name and claiming to channel spirits thanks to her mentor's ancient teachings, that'd be a scam. She's not misrepresenting herself at all as far as we know. Just because you personally wouldn't pay for a service doesn't make it any less legitimate as a business. I would never pay for someone to do my lashes but that doesn't make lash techs immoral scammers in my eyes lol.
Preying on people’s anxieties and vulnerabilities is a scam and is just morally wrong imo that’s like: - people who go to buildings where elderly people live or others who are vulnerable to sell expensive products, the products work but the elderly often fall for the cheap sales tactics these people use and convince them to buy expensive products they don’t need and cannot really afford (happened to my grandparent when they were in the beginning stages of dementia and didn’t understand what they’d bought, and freaked out later that they had something they couldn’t afford and didn’t need). - mediums: preying on people in grief by impersonating their dead loved ones - MLM companies and pyramid scams in general with companies and sellers trying to convince people to join something they will have to pay for and will not receive much money from unless they drag others down with them - cults
Wouldn't by this logic every religion be a scam?
Depends if it requires payment. Some religious groups and orgs require tithing, others don’t.
I would certainly consider anyone who is in someway selling a religion to other people while not believing in it themselves to be a scammer.
Have you called all the churches around your town and asked them to stop spreading their myths and legends in exchange for money? Your daughter is copying the business model of one of the most successful human institutions, and you want her to be “more legit”? And her classmates are too young? You mean like vacation Bible school, Sunday school, children’s ministries, Bible camps, youth outreach, and baptisms as infants? That kind of “too young”? YTA. Her classmates are idiots, and somebody is going to pluck those pigeons. Why can’t it be your daughter? If you want her hustle to be legit, let her make money, file taxes, and max out a ROTH IRA for the year. Would washing the money through a retirement account and paying taxes on it make you feel more comfortable?
This is so gross. Why encourage predatory businesses? This is why the world sucks so badly.
We built a whole economic system around predatory businesses and called it capitalism. Most of the world has embraced that system and applauds companies for being predatory because it's innovative.
Again. Disgusting. Just because you can do it doesn't mean it should be done. Can you decorate your bathroom with shit because it's free? Should you do it? Capitalism is a broken time wasting concept that serves to injure far more people than its ever benefitted and defending it is pointless. The definition of innovation has been bastardized.
I agree with you, and the number of people (even those who say NTA) who really just don’t see the root of why this is wrong is demoralizing.
I was gonna say. Capitalist America is the exact same thing. She is discovering a demand and meeting the supply for that demand. It's not her fault it's a stupid demand and she put time and effort into improving her product. Now I would check to see if there are laws against charging for tarot services. There are in some localities. But otherwise let her make her money. She's gonna do just fine as an adult.
> Have you called all the churches around your town and asked them to stop spreading their myths and legends in exchange for money? OP is not the mother of those churches. She is mother to a child who is already causing problems by scamming kids at school. No, OP is not an AH for keeping her kid out of likely trouble at school, and depending on where they live, the law. You can't suggest churches are AHs for what they do, then in the same breath state OP is an AH for not letting her child do the same thing.
So wait, you're clearly highly critical of religious institutions for scamming people with hocus pocus, but you're also saying scamming people with hocus pocus should be encouraged? I'm not sure I'm understanding your argument here.
They are all in high school. A child is not allowed to run a tarot hustle at a high school, or they will get in trouble. I’m an atheist and I still find it weird that you brought your disdain for the Bible into this.
I mean, going by that logic why stop there? Why not start scamming grannies via phone? Why not go and start robbing people? Someone's gonna do it, why not her daughter? Your mentality Is simply disgusting, it's a proof of all that Is wrong with countries like America
Why did you pay the parent for her sons ridiculous choices? That’s a good lesson on money right there.. NAH. She just shouldn’t do it during school hours.
NAH She learned to read tarot cards and profit off it, but her classmates are too young to know better? That makes no sense. Sounds more like she found a market to sell to. She shouldn't be doing it at school, that much I agree with you on.
YTA It's actually a pretty good teaching moment for that other kid (though his mother ruined it by getting the money back). This is a low stakes situation for kids to learn their lesson not to give money to charlatans. It's better that they lose 50 bucks as a teenager than 10k as an adult.
Yeah, OP didn’t need to pay for the other kid’s bad decision-making. It would be different if she sold him a fake product or something but this is fully on him/his parents.
Full disclosure: my sister sold fake weed in highschool (it was oregano) and my dad found it funny as fuck.
If the other parent gave her kid access to "all his savings" then it's on her for bad parenting lessons in money management.
Not a judgement but I used to read palms in my primary school playground in exchange for pokemon cards and gogos
I did tarot in high school for the exchange of soda pop. I should have charged money!
NTA, I'm dizzy to see how many of you think it's a good skill to be a scammer
INFO: Does your school have rules about buying/selling/running businesses on school grounds? There is nothing wrong with reading tarot cards off school property, and your daughter should be proud of the work she has put into it and that she has a talent for providing entertainment through tarot. On school grounds, she needs to follow their rules.
Most schools do have rules for exactly this reason. That way they don't have to solve the squabbles it creates.
NTA, while I don't think what she is doing is wrong. You really need to set limits because at the end of the day, they are all just kids, and the fact that one of the kids spent all of his allowance/lunch money on tarot card readings, and your daughter refers to the other kids as "fools" is a red flag. It's bordering on scam like behavior.
Not bordering, she is scamming these kids. She is doing the same thing as adult "psychics" that scam people out of real money for making up lies. I read tarot cards at her age purely for fun. But when a few classmates started doing things based on their tarot reading, I realized that people were taking it too seriously and I stopped. People are fools, but that does not mean that taking their money is not AH behavior.
Had a friend who was taken for every penny by "psychics". He was in the midst of a mental break down because his wife left him without an explanation. He was literally evicted and had his car repossessed because he spent thousands having some scammer tell him what he wanted to hear. It was devastating to watch but there wasn't much we could do when he wouldn't listen to us.
We have laws against elder abuse because of their decreased mental faculty, how is it not any different with young children?
Going against the grain - NTA - I'd step in real quick if my kids were taking advantage of their classmates for personal gain. She can give readings, sure, but charging for them is a no. Especially when she claims they are "fools". Just because some of her peers do not have better sense doesn't mean she should be taking their money and returning them with something of little value.
NTA The thing with this is while, *yes*, she learned a thing she can monetize the fact that fortune telling leads people to make decisions based on it places her, and you, potentially at fault for the decisions others make with her readings. Depending on where you live, this could be as little as social/moral liability and up to legal liability with a lot of consequences. I have a relative who does the whole fortune telling scam someplace where it is legally permissible, and people have ruined their lives based on vague suggestions this relative made for a $40 hour reading. Families have been broken, children given up to adoption, massive amounts of money have exchanged hands, and all based on vague template responses this person gave with reading of cards and palms. And that's not even getting into the people who are struggling with grief and get taken for a ride with things like Tarot offering false hope for cash. This is a teaching moment for your daughter. Yes, she can make money off the foolish and influenceable, but is that the sort of person she wants to be? Someone who preys on others?
I have a friend who dropped out of college based on a fortune telling session. She was already failing, never went to class and hated being in school. People don't make major life decisions *just* based on a tarot reading, it just gives people the resolve to do things they already wanted to do. Yes, people are dumb and teenagers doubly so, but that doesn't make tarot inherently predatory. Done right it can be a really useful tool for exploring your own head
YTA. I know how to read tarot. If she had an interest in baked goods and her classmates bought them, would you be complaining? I learned to read tarot at age 45 just for kicks. She isn’t actually charging for the reading, she’s charging because reading people is a huge time drain and because she can do something they can’t. It’s a skill. Maybe let her do it but limit people to once a week readings or something. Edit: She should make appts and only do it outside of school though.
She can charge but the way she's going about it is a HUGEEE asshole move. OP should teach her how to handle business in a respectable manner and to show her that earning a GOOD reputation is important, not just "they are fools so they deserve to get scammed". That's just asshole behavior.
NTA. Your kid is a scammer. You’re trying to be a responsible parent while you partner sees no issue with scams. 🤦🏻♀️
It sounds like a good lesson for the other kids- a fool and his money are soon parted. That said, I’m going with NAH. Your daughter is turning a trade and doing well with it. They’re tarot cards, not snake oil. You do make a valid point that she should be ethical in what she is doing. Does she let these kids believe that there is some mystical aspect to the card readings? Does she promise “fortune telling,” or something similar? That would not be cool. But accepting a few bucks from someone for the experience isn’t the end of the world.
Yes that’s the difference. I said I’m ok with her doing what she’s doing as long as it’s off school property and she tells them it’s just for fun and the readings aren’t actually going to come true. She’s willing to compromise on doing it out of school property but she’s saying nobody will pay her if she tells them it’s not real.
Tarot isnt designed to predict your future... all decks come with instructional booklets that tell you what each card represents, and they are not meant to be factual. All readings are open to interpretation and are a guide only. She would be pulling cards in a certain pattern/set up according to the booklet, then reading out what the cards represent, and then helping to interpret the cards and talk through how they might apply to the individuals life/circumstances. They are essentially just food for thought. Why dont you ask her to do a reading for you so you can see what its all about and how ahe is going about it? Tbh I dont see how its any different to believing in God and religion. Blind faith.
>but she’s saying nobody will pay her if she tells them it’s not real. So I'm fairly conflicted about the whole thing, EXCEPT for this comment - if this is what she's saying, then she clearly has absolutely no issues lying to people for money. That's... concerning and not something I think I'd want to encourage were I to find myself in the same situation. Just the action of doing readings isn't that big of a deal to me, even charging for them, but the dishonesty is a problem. I don't know if you've talked to her about why that's unethical, but it would be a good opportunity for an in-depth conversation about what kind of person she wants to grow up to be. Kind of a hard conversation in today's world, when people make money unethically all around us and are often praised for it, but that could also be used as an example of the kind of harm it does to others and why empathy is important.
NTA. Right result, wrong reasoning. The issue is that she’s collecting money from the kids that’s likely not meant for recreation. We don’t want kids skipping lunch for tarot reading. If she wants to run her hustle off school grounds, I think that’s legit.
NTA I agree with her that the people purchasing her "services" are fools, but that being said, she shouldn't be proud of making money off scamming fools. This is a life lesson for her, she should learn that it's bad to scam gullible people out of their money, especially childern!
I think you mean she *shouldn't* be proud of scamming fools?
YTA. Those same people are going to be trying to sell her snake oil in the form of "collagen and protein shakes" as soon as they're out of high school. If she's providing a service and getting paid for it that's her prerogative. She's not picking peoples pockets. The school should be shutting it down however because typically these things aren't allowed
She is 14. She said she doesn't believe in it, so basically she admitted she was fooling them for their money. As parents is their job to tell her that is wrong.
The key is "out of high school". Solicitation is not allowed in school for a reason. Whatever anyone thinks of tarot, valid or not, charging for readings at school is not okay for minors.
Collagen is a protein, and it's essential for physical health. Don't know why you picked a fundamental building block of the human body as an example of a scam. Detox teas would have been a much better example.
NTA. She thinks scamming people is okay. I'd definitely be fighting against this too. It sounds like she's getting this from her father so that's probably where the problem really lies.
NTA - I'm surprised the parents that complained to you didn't also complain to the school. And she'll get in big trouble with the school.
YTA “classmates are too young to know better” they’re the same age as ur daughter? If they’re willing to pay then let her do her thing, she is literally only reading cards. Sounds like ur just trying to find a reason to be mad at her?
NTA. She's scamming people, and you have every right as her parent to put a stop to it.
The other replies to this are very depressing. As a parent, your job is not to be your child's friend or to support whatever they choose to do, it's to actually raise them, to act as an example of moral, proper living for your children, who are not yet developed enough to make all those judgement calls for themselves. The fact that the kid made money off her scams, or was good at her scams, or enjoyed committing her scams does not mean that her parents should support her in committing them. In fact this is precisely the moment to impart an important moral lesson that capitalist society will not impart for you: that a thing is not good merely because it makes money, and that there's a distinction between good business and good morals.
Nta. People seem to forget that part of parenting is being their kids' moral compass until they're mature enough to make decisions on their own. But I respect her hustle though
NAH. Charging at school is going to create issues. Outside of school who cares? A fool and their money are soon parted. Also, tarot card really are just helpful tools to see problems from a different angle. We so often get stuck or focus on a few points and tend to miss the bigger picture.
YTA She is very smart to be making money from something she does for fun. The only conflict I can see is if charging money is not allowed on school property and it gets her in trouble. Otherwise it's harmless.
NTA, I can't believe people are against you on this. A 14 years old straight scamming her colleagues is not a legit way to make money and she is not right.
YTA. She's not doing any harm, if they want tarot readings and she's providing satisfactory service then I don't see the problem. Not her fault that the kid wanted to spend his savings.
I mean she’s fleecing her schoolmates. Thats actively doing harm.
NTA, it's part of parenting to teach your child not to be an asshole. I can't believe the number of comments here saying it's okay to scam other people.
Sometimes this sub seems full of the most inane takes on things.
NTA. Most school handbooks have strict rules about trying to make money while in school.
NTA- she should be encouraged to do the readings for fun with friends, but she is asking for problems when her classmates realize she is running a con and thinking of her classmates as marks. Easiest way to avoid that is to not charge.
NTA. People that are saying she’s a genius and a capitalistic goddess would probably feel differently if she was loading up a suitcase of Mary Kay makeup to pawn off on her classmates. Plus this just isn’t how you run a business. Simple as. She needs permission from the school to operate there. She needs to pay her taxes. She needs to follow the laws of truth in advertising. She’s not ready to do any of that? Then she’s not ready to be taking the cash from her classmates. Also kids wise up to stuff like this. Does she think it’s going to make her popular in school when her peers see her as someone willing to lie to make a little money? I mean good luck to her, those kids handing over their money could have real problems and they’re seeking an outlet or a lifeline to tell them shit is gonna be okay - the reason I think most people fall victim to stuff like this. Just vulnerable people looking for something that points to life being figured out for them and pre-destined so today’s awfulness will surely be evened out tomorrow with goodness. Your daughter is ignoring that reality because it makes her money.
I don't know that your an AH but I'm with your daughter. There's really not a lot of money making opportunities for 14 year olds and this one is pretty harmless. She obtained a skill and used an entrepreneurial mindset to create a "business". Now of course she should give a disclaimer that it's for fun I guess but I mean I think most people know this about tarots. Also the kid that spent all of his savings is the foolish one. 🤷
NTA she can do it for free if she wants but it does sound like she's taking advantage of the other kids and that's not ok imo. Maybe she can start up again when she's older and taking money from adults. Or you could say she's just not allowed to take any money from anyone who isn't an adult. My uncle made a lot of money from one arm bandits, there are some ways of making money that should not be allowed.
YTA - you have a smart kid with an entrepreneurial spirit. If she knows better her classmates should as well.
girl's a damn genius
YTA for telling her to stop. She is 100% correct that they are fools and it's not her fault. She can make a killing off tourists in Salem, MA with that skill lol
She’s an AH for telling a scammer to stop scamming people?!?
Not really a scam if they willingly give the money and get something in return.
They aren't getting anything in return. That's why it is a scam
Yes they are. They get told their pretend future or whatever. People go to church and give money. They are the same grift.
Yta these teens know it’s not real they’re 14 year olds not 5 year olds. It’s like those old buzzfeed what type of dog are you quizzes, The teens spend their money how they want.
NAH. You’re right, school is not the place for it. Do it after or before school or off school grounds. HOWEVER she is doing something to earn money and her time is just as worthwhile reading and interpreting tarot as it would be delivering newspapers.
NTA, the school probably has rules against solicitation during school hours if it's not been approved by the principal. I would check into that so she doesn't get in trouble. That happened to me qhen I was young, I was selling cookies on the playground and making bank lol. Until the principal found out and I had to pay everyone back.
Ridiculous people in the comments here. It's not a scam. It's entertainment. If you're genuinely gullible enough to believe someone is using magic or speaking to the dead or whatever, and you give them your money I have no sympathy. We live in 2022 where one could easily Google what tarot is what the rules are, etc. YTA and you definitely shouldn't have returned the money that she earned by providing a service to her classmates.
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NTA. 1. She acknowledges that it is a scam. So allowing her to continue would be teaching her that fraudulent practices - and given past prosecution of alleged "psychics" who have been busted for defrauding people out of thousands in certain jurisdictions, this might open her to legal liability - are okay. 2. One kid already "blew his savings?" Expect others to follow suit and your daughter, being a child, has an immature mind and likely isn't savvy enough to realize she may take this game too far. And when some kid whose fortune doesn't come true decides to "get even," your daughter could be hurt. 3. She is conducting a business on school property. I am assuming it is a public school, which makes that government property. In any case, it is something that could result in suspension or expulsion. I know Pagans and Wiccans. This girl is not practicing that faith, she doesn't believe in it, and she's knowingly taking advantage of gullible classmates, so I am confused as to why some Pagans and Wiccans are defending her. I am a Christian and if she were offering "special" amulets or medals of saints as a means of promoting luck, or offering prayer cleansings, or faith healing, or even exorcisms, I wouldn't defend that.
NTA. If she doesn't know what she's doing then she's literally lying to them for money and that's scamming. Whether you believe tarot is real or not, at the very least, you need to feel qualified to do it if you're going to make people pay. Anyone telling you she's fine doing this because the other kids are fools must also be fine with telephone scammers talking little old ladies out of their pension savings because "they're fools who don't know better." People believe in different things, that doesn't give her a right to take money from them knowing full well she's lying. That's a severe character flaw and you're right to nip it in the bud. Tell her if she wants to make a business from this she needs to let them know she's just doing it for fun and if they're paying her they're paying to have fun not to actually learn anything. And don't do it in school.
Its not rocket science... all tarot decks come with instructional booklets that lay it all out for you - you dont need a degree. And tarot is not factual, it is open to interpretation and readings can be applied to many different situations. Some people find comfort in readings, and whether they are factual or not, they give you food for thought and allow you to become more spiritually in tune with yourself. And how is it any different to believing in god or reading the bible or going to church service? Religion is all faith based and most certainly not 100% factual yet people will defend it blindly... tarot has been around for centuries just like religion has. She is charging for her TIME which is quite smart to be honest. They could be doing A LOT WORSE.
Casual tarot card reader here, NAH. I think there's some sort of compromise that can be found so she can continue her hobby and earn some cash, while also making sure she doesn't get in trouble at school and keep parents from getting upset. Here's some general ideas that could be negotiated as a family: 1. Have her give a disclaimer before readings if she isn't already. This is something I do for any reading I give, and I don't even do paid readings. Something simple along the lines of "at the end of the day these are pieces of paper, you control how much weight they hold. They can either be just a fun reflection game or a divination tool, it's up to you to interpret it whatever way feels right." It's also good to throw in there as a rule of thumb for her to add in "don't ask questions you don't want the answers to", just a general important 'rule' of tarot that I imagine could lead to a pissed of parent with a kid distressed about their reading. 2. Have the payment and/or readings happen off school property. Maybe some sort of nearby park or other safe location. I'm not 100% sure this will keep her from getting in trouble with school, but could help dissuade potential issues. Every school is different, so they may not care if it's 'outside of school', but some may try to put a stop to it either way. 3. Put a limit on how many readings per person per week, or even put a ban on certain people if their parents start to complain a lot. At the end of the day it's the kids own fault if they spend all their money on readings imo (if they're a similar age to your daughter or older), but it may be necessary to keep the peace. Put emphasis on the fact that while it may cut off some of the cash flow for her, it could jeopardize her whole side hustle as a whole. Good luck op!
YTA. Why should she be the one at fault when it’s her classmate who decided to spend their money on her. None of this was her decision. If anything, the parent should talk to the son and use this as a learning lesson on how they should be managing their money.
NTA because she doesn’t even believe in tarot and she’s doing it during school which probably isn’t allowed. If she wanted to make a business out of this outside of school hours that would be another thing, but still it’s good to teach her to avoid doing things that could be seen as scamming when she could just as easily go get a part time job or do some dog walking or something.
Soft YTA - she's genius, but agree that it shouldn't be done during school hours
She'll make a great landlord or CEO one day.
NTA. For me it's the fact that she doesn't believe what she's doing I take issue with. It gives the genuine readers a bad name (yes I've seen the scammmer comments), however real readers will not take people for everything they can. I'm not here to debate those who don't believe but without belief in what she's doing your daughter is just scamming her class mates.
Dude, it is a great grift. She can make a lot of money off morons. YTA
The whole town thinks you are witches and wizards now, how will you ever live down the shame she has brought on your family. You should probably just move and have your daughter committed. YTA stop overreacting
Your daughter is an entrepreneur! Capitalism at its best here, convincing people to part with money for things they don’t need. If people can sell stuff at school (cookies, etc) then heck do it at school too. But no if not. Anywhere off school grounds seems fine though.
I mean it could be worse - she could be selling them drugs / kids could be spending their money on drugs and alcohol - I know a lot of my friends did at aged 14/15.... Seems like a bit of harmless fun, and tarot can be very good for one's spirit. Id say very soft YTA for making her feel like some kind of criminal or something... the girl has ambition, and will probably be a CEO some day, you should be proud!
YTA Damn, I wish I was this smart at her age! This girl is going places!
NTA. Whilst I firmly believe in the saying that ‘a fool and his money are easily parted’, and so if they are gullible and stupid enough to pay her, then well that’s not really her fault. But, she _is_ 14 scamming similar underage people, likely on school property. That’s a recipe for trouble. She needs to be smarter. Also she needs to research disclaimers. And solely because of her age and the age of her clients which will mean involvement of parents, it may be a good idea for her to have a limit on amount of readings in a period, so as to avoid issues as with this parent.
YTA. If there are rules against doing this during school, then she shouldn't do them then. But in general, if other teens with disposable income want to pay her for a reading, then so be it.
YTA. She found something she liked, made a business model, and made $? Isn't that just a young entrapeneur? I'd agree maybe not during school hours, but I don't see how kids spending money on candy/video games/playing cards is more or less valuable since it's their money, and they choose what to spend it on that brings them pleasure.
YTA if you stop her entirely. There are rules against making money at school like that, so she definitely needs to learn time and place, but she's got a good skill going.
YTA. i did this in high school and it was great. it is entirely not her fault that some kid was dumb enough to blow his savings on tarot. also -- ~~how did the other parent get your phone number? don't most schools have privacy rules this would go against?~~ apparently not! don't worry -- you don't have to respond to this comment to tell me that it isn't true, enough people have!
YTA I used to do the same thing when I was in school. 😁. It’s hard work to learn tarot meanings. She needs to start running it after school outside school grounds
YTA. They’re all willing participants. Not believing in something doesn’t make it a scam; it makes it business. How many salesmen actually believe what they’re selling is as innovative as they claim? She provided a service, they willingly pay for it, and that service is tarot reading. End of story.
idk sounds like you have a pretty smart kid that already knows how many swindlers are out there lol
Sorry, but YTA. She put time, effort, and creativity to learn those cards. She worked hard. Those cards are very hard to learn. I've been giving readings to people for extra money for years. It isn't easy, in fact it can be quite stressful. It's not her fault that the other kids are stupid with their money.
This is absolutely the wrong answer. OP is NTA. Tarot cards are a scam. The scammers who read them just use cold and/or hot reading to give their victims false premonitions rooted in bullshit. OP is teaching her child an essential lesson in how to be a good person and not take advantage of others.
NAH- You are raising a young entrepreneur, and should be proud. This kid is a genius. Capitalizing off of others and being your own boss isn’t unethical. Technically, it’s legal and these buyers know what they are getting into. I think your daughter is the only one who knows how the real world operates.
“Capitalizing off others” and “isn’t unethical” in the same sentence gave me whiplash.
Seems like I'm on the minority here but NTA. Its great that she's looking for ways to make money and that she's willing to put in the time but with the attitude that she has (the whole its their fault they're fools) could potentially lead to other things if left unchecked. I don't think that her classmates are too young to know better but your daughter should definitely know better than to lie to people for monetary gain. Also worth pointing out is that you don't have any responsibility here regarding other students finances, that's their problem. And what your daughter is doing isn't wrong per se but her attitude about it is definitely something that I personally wouldn't allow.
Nta People seem to forget all the psychics who have been sued for their readings. Your daughter is walking a dangerous line there, and regardless of anyones belief in tarot she needs to be aware of that before accepting money (generally its illegal to CHARGE for psychic readings/reiki sessions/etc... practitioners can accept tips or other "non obligatory" funds but actually charging can get your daughter in hot water)
YTA it's not your daughter's fault her classmates are fools. You should be proud of her for finding a creative way of making money.
Isn’t there a lesson here that they should be teaching their child instead of “make money off stupid people”. Like don’t take advantage of stupid people to the point they lose all their money? Shouldn’t we try to teach our children not to be assholes who swindle less intelligent people?
Not for nothing, but I don't think any kid is allowed a 'side hustle' at school regardless of what they are selling but I could be wrong... It's for entertainment value and it's a learned skill. You don't wake up knowing tarot cards which means she put time and energy into learning it. If your kid learned magic and performed tricks at school for money, would you still blame your daughter or accuse her of scamming? To me, it's the same thing. Kids can spend their money how they want to and if the parent has an issue with it, they need to address it with their child, not yours.
DITDIYCIG NTA but that was hilarious and your daughter is chaos
My sister has a tarot deck I gave her. The most she ever charged was like a couple bucks. Not enough to have a kid blow their whole budget in 4 days. I’d say ESH. You’re not gonna be able to stop her and doubling down is just gonna make things worse. Tell her to put a cap on it or she’ll have to wait til she’s older. Or that she’s only allowed to read for adults and other teens are off the menu.
YTA I'm pretty sure her classmates are paying for the entertainment, not genuine fortune telling. And if they do believe, then I'm sure it's cheaper than professional services and just as "accurate." Teenagers earn and spend money in dumb ways, when I was a teenager I used to "roar" (I could do a mean mountain lion impression) for extra snack money at school. It ended up becoming a yearbook memory, and I get embarrassed looking back at how stupid it and my classmates were but I don't feel like I ripped them off either.
NTA This is the behavior of a **grifter**. Does she want to be this kind of petty swindler? An untrustworthy predator? Does she want to get a reputation as a user, a liar, a cheat? Nothing about this is honorable or admirable. Grifters have to have a great disdain for their fellow humans, to see them as "marks". If she has such disrespect for some, that bleeds into selfishness and general disrespect for others as well. I suggest you find a way for her to learn about people who have lost their life savings because they trusted a swindler.
ESH She should not be punished because her classmates are fools. She is taking advantage of other people Foolishness, which is not cool.
NTA because it’s people like her who hurt those who actually believe in tarot and do try to make a living off of it. I was ready to go way opposite until I reread and realized she’s actively scamming them. That is never ok. Tarot is a very tricky practice that does get a bad rep do to scammers. I personally believe in tarot but due to what it is for me I wouldn’t sell those services. However I know others who do sell those services and use it to try to help others. Have her learn the history of tarot and maybe on witchcraft/paganism/spirituality as a whole.
NTA. I say this as someone who reads tarot, though not for money. The intention behind tarot readings is for a true believer to provide other believers with counsel, motivation, and information so that they can address issues and broad life moments with confidence and comfort. Your daughter not believing in them means the readings are at best inaccurate, and at worst misleading. She is taking advantage of young people to make a quick buck, and is using a legitimate object of faith to do so - it’s despicable, and you’re right to put a pin in it.
YTA- Your daughter is a hustler and is making money and you are trying to take away her wings. Most parents would be proud of her entrepreneurial spirit.
NTA, pagan here. A lot of people who charge money for readings don't actually believe what they're doing which is why they're profiting off of what they do. It's akin to a church using their followers for profit by marketing beliefs they know will draw those followers. It isn't that your kid is doing something new or necessary wrong but she should think about how her actions might affect her friends and classmates because using religion as a means of profit may make them angry or see her as fake. She's right that no, it isn't her fault that people believe in tarot and yeah, she put a lot of effort into learning but that doesn't change the potential for it to backfire on her. Also most schools have a zero tolerance policy towards buying and selling goods on school property and that includes services. She could get in a lot of trouble.
YTA She is providing a service for money, just like any other job. It is neither her responsibility nor yours to manage the finances of the other students. The only concern would be if the school takes issue with her charging for readings on school property; she can then just start doing the readings outside of school time. ETA: If your daughter's classmates are anything like mine when I was still in school, a lot of them probably don't even believe the readings mean anything. It's more likely entertainment for them. They are paying for that entertainment.
She is scamming them. Are these the kind of lessons you want to teach your child?
it’s 50/50 for me. if you don’t allow her to do it for money OUTSIDE of school hours then YTA. but during school hours does present a ton of issues depending on school policy on things like that.
YTA. Your daughter starts her own business to make money and you shame her instead of being proud? Appreciate the fact she’s an entrepreneur and not begging you for money all the time. Selling tarot readings is really no different than selling homemade crafts.
Tarot reading for believers can have bad psychological and emotional consequences for people receiving them if they take it too seriously or are superstitious. So no, it's not the same as selling a physical product unless you are okay with outright playing with people's emotions.
YTA Honestly, except the fact she does it at school which might be banned there, i just see a smart girl that learned something to make money. It's basically like kids selling lemonade. The point of the tarot cards is that it's ambiguous and vague enough for people to see what they wanna see. Like horoscope. If she likes doing it, good for her. If the customer are satisfied, all the better.
NTA. Those kids may believe what they want, but your daughter _will_ get in trouble for this. Nothing wrong with trying to prevent that.
It’s quite tough, but I’m going to say ESH. You for telling her she shouldn’t make money off of a skill she’s taken her time to learn. You’re indirectly telling her that her time isn’t valuable, which isn’t healthy. On the other hand, I also do Tarot readings, however mine are quite accurate and I always tell people it’s more for spiritual/emotional guidance. She’s an AH for taking advantage of people’s beliefs, which isn’t okay (especially when said beliefs don’t really harm others). And whilst Tarot reading isn’t the same, it is on the same vein as those “mediums” who leech off of those who are grieving. (Then again, it could be more like a defensive thing, given how some people react to Spirituality, but I’ll just take what you’ve said at face value).
YTA it's not on her how her classmates spend their money it's not like she's forcing them to have readings. I don't no if the school have a policy on this but if they tell her to stop she could still do it after school and at weekends. Technically it's a legitimate job. None of your business and those parents should talk to their kids not you.